Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #186 - 40 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:40:05 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Series spring over. (TeriAnn Wakeman)
   2. SV: [lro] Coming Home (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?=)
   3. Re: Series spring over. (Bill Adams)
   4. Re: Ignition System - the key v the button (Alan J. Richer)
   5. Re: Series spring over. (John Cranfield)
   6. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
   7. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
   8. Re: Ottawa Valley Land Rovers are alive (Jean-Leon Morin)
   9. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  10. Re: Ottawa Valley Land Rovers are alive (Alan J. Richer)
  11. Re: Ignition System - the key v the button (Luca Ingianni)
  12. Re: Series spring over. (John Cranfield)
  13. Re: Series spring over. (Edit 2)
  14. Re: Ignition System - the key v the button (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  15. Re: Series spring over. (marko.cosic)
  16. [lro} Triplex Glass (Rich Williams)
  17. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  18. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  19. Re: Series spring over. (Peter Ogilvie)
  20. Re: Series spring over. (John Cranfield)
  21. Re: Re: [lro] anti theft device (terry galbraith)
  22. Re: Series spring over. (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  23. Re: SV: [lro] Coming Home (Mark Pilkington)
  24. Interior Door Panels (Brian Horner)
  25. Re: Series spring over. (Mark Pilkington)
  26. Re: Interior Door Panels (John Cranfield)
  27. Re: Interior Door Panels (Brian Horner)
  28. Re: Interior Door Panels (RON WARD)
  29. SV: SV: [lro] Coming Home (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?=)
  30. RE: Interior Door Panels (Easton Trevor A)
  31. Re: Interior Door Panels (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  32. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  33. 88' Gross weight (Mark Pilkington)
  34. Re: 88' Gross weight (Rich Williams)
  35. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  36. RE: Interior Door Panels (Harald Hansen)
  37. Re: Series spring over. (Edit 2)
  38. Tyre clearance (William L Leacock)
  39. Re: Series spring over. (Jean-Leon Morin)
  40. Re: Series spring over. (Edit 2)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 01 23:11:14 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>My main concern is how the stock springs will hold up to this type of
>treatment. I figure with 5-6 leaves in the front and maybe a bit more in the
>rear, the springs will be severely taxed, but I think they could still live
>a decently long life...

You might be interested in some interpolations I made of Land Rover leaf 
spring rates.

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/spring_rates.htm

The charts are near the bottom of the page.  Dearching and removing 
leaves decreases a spring pack's off road load capability.  Be careful or 
you may need to carry spare springs on the trail.

You mentioned that your front axle was striking the frame on upward 
articulation.  The rubber stops are supposed to keep that from happening. 
 Are they in place?

Here is a thought for you.  How about combining a spring over with 
raising the location of the spring's frame mounting points?  This is 
easier done at the rear of a 109 than an 88.  The front would require 
going to longer front springs and building a new front spring mounting 
point forward of the current one (leaving the axle in the stock location).

A regular spring over adds about 7ish inches of lift.  Raising the spring 
mounting points can  loose up to 4ish inches of the lift without 
affecting spring rates.

Longer springs on the front can can translate to greater articulation.  
Longer shackles, tilted about 45 degrees inwards also adds to downward 
articulation.

Raising the spring attachment point without raising the body  decreases 
the effective roll centre (It is a little more complicated than that).

Just some thoughts.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?= <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: SV: [lro] Coming Home
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:03:27 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi Mark
Great to here such a lovely story, I just got a mail from my Landys previous
owner that was also something special.

I am very curious about your SWB, my SWB Diesel here in Sweden might let me
down soon enough.

Do you have standard axles/brakes on your SWB?
Do you have standard gear box/transfer box?
Is there a write up about your conversion?

I4ve seen one SWB in Australia with a 4.2 litre (296cui ?) V8 / Nissan gear
box that I try to get info about but no luck. Owner said to be Colin O,
anybody know more about that vehicle?

Your car looks really great, I just hope mine will some day:
http://hem.passagen.se/serie3/

best regards

Fredrik Hedstrom
SWB sIII Diesel

> >-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> >Fren: [email-masked]
> >[mailto:[email-masked]]Fvr Mark
> >Pilkington
> >Skickat: den 11 december 2001 19:33
> >Till: [email-masked]
> >Dmne: [lro] Coming Home
> >
> >
> >
> >One of the conditions of the sale when I bought my 67 Land
> >Rover SWB from and
> >old guy here locally was that I must bring it back and show
> >him it when it was
> >done. I agreed, and have thought about that a lot as the
> >last 10 months have
> >passed.  He lives 10 miles off the pavement and the Land
> >Rover spent 16 years
> >under the trees outside, after 10 years in a barn prior to a divorce.
> >Yesterday, My wife and I were in the area where we bought it
> >and it was a sunny
> >day and we were not on any deadline so we thought that we
> >would try to find his
> >place again. As each turn came we remembered it as a few
> >were tight to get the
> >Range Rover and trailer around when we had taken it away.
> >Pretty soon we were
> >near the house and the Ex owner was working in his garden.
> >As we came into view
> >he put his hand on his chest and his mouth opened.  I
> >stopped and he came up and
> >said "now you are making me sad"  Concerned about whether we
> >had upset him I
> >reminded him that he had asked us to bring it back and he
> >recovered and said
> >that he was very glad we did but had actually thought that
> >we would not remember
> >to do it.  The Landy was sitting there resplendent in new
> >paint, tires and
> >engine, so different than she had been when we dragged her
> >away. He said that he
> >would never have got round to it even if he had kept her and
> >he was glad we had
> >her. He looked at so many things that he had done that were
> >still the same.  He
> >showed me little idiosyncrasies that he had known, he told
> >us how he had bought
> >it out of three divorces and even given it to his son who
> >dumped it in a shed
> >until he took it back years later.  He told us of places he
> >had been and things
> >he had done with it and in it. We were there for about an
> >hour talking. He told
> >us that he often wondered what we had done and that he had
> >thought that it was
> >too much of a project for us whippersnappers and that it was
> >probably sitting in
> >our barn neglected.  Meanwhile we were restoring, swearing,
> >buying, unbolting,
> >painting, cursing and finally registering it. He said that
> >he heard the burble
> >of the V8 before he saw it and knew it was us "because only
> >the Utility company
> >and Jehovah's Witnesses come down here."  It was a great day
> >for him to see
> >it.   I think that I will send a big photo for him to keep
> >of before and after.
> >He also invited us out on the trail next summer.  He has a
> >nasty looking Jeep
> >that he still drives and camps out of in the Rubicon.  He
> >gave us a spare Land
> >Rover wheel that he had found after we had taken it away and
> >we left, driving
> >the same old trail that it had driven years ago and early
> >this year had been
> >towed out on.  He also confirmed that the 327 V8 That he had
> >in it was fitted
> >when new by a custom order at the dealer here in Northern
> >California. I put a
> >350 in it because the 327 as dead so it was an easy swap.
> >It had only had a
> >2.25 four cylinder in it for the trip over here from Blighty
> >in 1967 and all
> >that time it has had the same tranny in it.
> >Fun to complete the circle like that and to make good on a promise.
> >Kind regards,
> >Mark Pilkington
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:16:51 -0500
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Organization: U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

JL
Have you considered a quarter elliptical setup? Maybe with an air spring
that you can adjust the ride height? an F-250 rear spring flipped over
should do just dandy.
-- 
Bill Adams
3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
International Broadcasting Bureau
Washington, D.C.
202-205-9638
[email-masked]

'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel
'81 GoldWing
'69 Le Sabre Convertible
'63 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:51:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Ignition System - the key v the button
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Quite simple, actually. 

Rather than buggering with the wiring in the panel,
you could simply add a pushbutton to a convenient hole
on the dashboard. One side goes to switched +12 volts,
and the other to the solenoid's lug with (I believe) a
white/red wire on it (the coil lug on the solenoid).

If you want to get at the back of the ignition switch,
find the wire to the solenoid (see previous SWAG on
colour code) and run that wire to one side of the
pushbutton, then +12 to the other.

SImple really. I added a solenoid to my old 109 to
eliminate the BIG pushbutton by doing essentially this
and adding a generic Ford solenoid.

              Alan

--- Elwyn FS <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Hiya
> 
> How easy is it to change the starter bit of the
> ignition to a push button.
> 
> A friend of mine at work has a S3 but the key and
> barrel are badly worn. He 
> has hit upon the idea of replacing the part of the
> ignition barrel which 
> starts it with a push button, somewhere on his dash
> - he has enough holes 
> for it!
> 
> That way, he can turn the ignition on, and then
> press the button to start.
> 
> So, Some people will argue that this is going
> backwards with evolution and 
> stuff, but on the other point, he has hit on the
> idea that he wants, so I 
> would like some advice from you chaps?
> 
> Alas I won't see him tomorrow, but he is back at the
> depot on Thursday, so 
> if people could slip in their bits?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Elwyn York   ICQ: 17087824
> S3 Lightweight. West Midlands
> http://ltwt.gq.nu/
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:35:45 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Have you concidered moving the spring attachment points down on the
chassis a la military type chassis,
You would need to drop the front hole at the end of the frame and change
the front attachment point of the rear springs and make some longer
shackles to match. This way you get the exact amount of lift you
require.
John and Muddy

Jean-Leon Morin wrote:
> 
> I apologise in advance as I know this might ruffle some feathers...
> 
> So, I'm again at the design stage... It's good to be back. I have a set of
> coiler axles off of a 1990 RR completely dissassembled in the garage, and a
> monstrously large set of new tires mounted on some rims. What do I do with
> all this...
> 
> The plan has been for some time to convert Valdez, my 109 3 door, already a
> rolling prototype for a variety of weirdness, to leaf sprung coiler axles. I
> have finally got all the bits and pieces I need to proceed.
> 
> There are a few problems. Firstly, the track of the vehicle increases
> dramatically with these axles - with the 35" tires mounted on stock 88"
> wheels, the overall width becomes 70", almost 10" wider than the standard
> width from outer edge to outer edge of the tires. This means when things
> start to flex tires will start to rub and I'd like to keep the fender
> trimming to a tolerable level.
> 
> Also, I've had problems with the axle tube hitting the chassis under full
> articulation at the front, and on rough roads. I attribute this to a heavy
> motor, winch and bumper, but this is annoying to say the least. Bone jarring
> thumping is not a good thing.
> 
> So, in order to gain some fender clearance, and raise the chassis so it
> doesn't rub in th middle (109's are a tad long for heavy off-road) I'd come
> up with the idea of a spring over lift. This would be ideal, as it would
> give me a lot of fender clearance, and make the front thumping a thing of
> the past, without having to go to heavier springs and losing my decent front
> axle articulation.
> 
> I measured it up tonight and a spring over in stock form is not going to
> work at ALL. The dead raise with the new larger tires would be at least 10",
> which means the CG is much too high for anything remotely related to
> off-roading.
> 
> So, I've got two options here. Either I cut the fenders out and run the
> axles in normal form, making the vehicle somewhat lower than I would like it
> for frame to suspension clearance, or I can "spring over", but de-arch the
> springs to make them nearly flat, in order to try and lower the CG.
> 
> The flat spring idea is interesting, and I think it might work decently
> well. I'd simply use the stock 88" leaf springs I have on the beast right
> now, and remove some short leaves below the spring, and set it above the
> axletube. Under compression, the spring would bend into a negative arch, and
> when unloaded, it would droop.
> 
> My main concern is how the stock springs will hold up to this type of
> treatment. I figure with 5-6 leaves in the front and maybe a bit more in the
> rear, the springs will be severely taxed, but I think they could still live
> a decently long life...
> 
> Any opinions or insights before I tear my rover apart again?
> 
> J-L
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:32:01 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Bill,

I had thought of a 1/4 elliptical spring setup, but the fabrication and
modifications involved would be a tad too complex to attempt in this cold
weather. Plus, the problem with designing a suspension system from scratch
is that you might just end up with a totally unstable, dangerous vehicle at
highway speeds. Spring overs and de-arches have been done for ages, on
Jeeps, Toyotas, and other leaf sprung vehicles, and millions of these run
60+ MPH on the highway without too many problems. As this vehicle is used
for on-road transportation, I'm not getting too crazy...

TAW,

 Thanks for the spring rate tables. I do not have bumpstops between the
chassis and axle - the reason being that the clearance is so little that it
would greatly reduce articulation. Carrying spare springs is a price I am
willing to pay... And have paid for a long time. Since rovers have double
wrapped springs, most broken springs are more of a nuisance than an actual
breakdown - I have yet to snap through a main and secondary leaf in one
shot. I actually completed the off-road at the Winter Romp with my left rear
main leaf snapped cleanly in two.

Lowering spring mount points on the chassis is one can of worms I don't want
to get into right now... When I built the chassis I made the spring mounts
out of 1/4" plate. It would be very difficult to remove these, and they have
been expertly welded while the chassis was sitting on the shop floor; Much
easier to lay down quality weld beads with new, unpainted steel, and current
measurements are exact. My next custom chassis will definitely have a longer
spring on the front...

Now.. The real problem. How to control axle wrap with all these leafs
missing...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:36:51 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Keith galantly offered:

>
> Do you need those old rear springs of mine to play with?
>
> Keith

Thanks awfully, friend. Unfortunately I can't take your rear springs, Keith
Elliot gave me his set of brand new springs he took off in favor of
parabolics this year. I'll have to monkey around with these. When I break
them I might be persuaded to take your old ones...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Ottawa Valley Land Rovers are alive
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:38:43 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Actually, Robin...

The OVLR is very much alive online... I think you have been away too long to
realise it.

J-L

Jean-Lion Morin
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
__________________________________________________________________

 - Land-Rovers are not accepted for racing - not at this writing anyhow -
and they will
never replace the limousine as a way of transporting the very rich, but they
do have
style and a kind of studied carelessness. A man who rockets around the
suburbs- or
attempts to seduce fastidious women - in a Land-Rover, is obviously a man
worth
watching. He must be one who can tell society to go to hell and get away
with it.

- Car and Driver, sept 1964.

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:56:22 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yes I had John,

This was also a solution...

The only downside I can see to this type of setup is that the front horns of
the chassis are already quite large and protrude, which impairs approach
angle. By making them longer, I don't really fix the problem.

Plus, having the springs over the axle increases ground clearance a lot for
sliding objects (stumps), provided you have the brains not to hit the
obstacle square with the differential cover. I think this might be an
advantage in deep mud or snow, where you are pushing with the axles. Might
be a disadvantage sometimes as the springs act as sliders to push over
obstacles...

J-L

----- Original Message -----
From: John Cranfield <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.

>
> Have you concidered moving the spring attachment points down on the
> chassis a la military type chassis,
> You would need to drop the front hole at the end of the frame and change
> the front attachment point of the rear springs and make some longer
> shackles to match. This way you get the exact amount of lift you
> require.
> John and Muddy
>
> Jean-Leon Morin wrote:
> >
> > I apologise in advance as I know this might ruffle some feathers...
> >
> > So, I'm again at the design stage... It's good to be back. I have a set
of
> > coiler axles off of a 1990 RR completely dissassembled in the garage,
and a
> > monstrously large set of new tires mounted on some rims. What do I do
with
> > all this...
> >
> > The plan has been for some time to convert Valdez, my 109 3 door,
already a
> > rolling prototype for a variety of weirdness, to leaf sprung coiler
axles. I
> > have finally got all the bits and pieces I need to proceed.
> >
> > There are a few problems. Firstly, the track of the vehicle increases
> > dramatically with these axles - with the 35" tires mounted on stock 88"
> > wheels, the overall width becomes 70", almost 10" wider than the
standard
> > width from outer edge to outer edge of the tires. This means when things
> > start to flex tires will start to rub and I'd like to keep the fender
> > trimming to a tolerable level.
> >
> > Also, I've had problems with the axle tube hitting the chassis under
full
> > articulation at the front, and on rough roads. I attribute this to a
heavy
> > motor, winch and bumper, but this is annoying to say the least. Bone
jarring
> > thumping is not a good thing.
> >
> > So, in order to gain some fender clearance, and raise the chassis so it
> > doesn't rub in th middle (109's are a tad long for heavy off-road) I'd
come
> > up with the idea of a spring over lift. This would be ideal, as it would
> > give me a lot of fender clearance, and make the front thumping a thing
of
> > the past, without having to go to heavier springs and losing my decent
front
> > axle articulation.
> >
> > I measured it up tonight and a spring over in stock form is not going to
> > work at ALL. The dead raise with the new larger tires would be at least
10",
> > which means the CG is much too high for anything remotely related to
> > off-roading.
> >
> > So, I've got two options here. Either I cut the fenders out and run the
> > axles in normal form, making the vehicle somewhat lower than I would
like it
> > for frame to suspension clearance, or I can "spring over", but de-arch
the
> > springs to make them nearly flat, in order to try and lower the CG.
> >
> > The flat spring idea is interesting, and I think it might work decently
> > well. I'd simply use the stock 88" leaf springs I have on the beast
right
> > now, and remove some short leaves below the spring, and set it above the
> > axletube. Under compression, the spring would bend into a negative arch,
and
> > when unloaded, it would droop.
> >
> > My main concern is how the stock springs will hold up to this type of
> > treatment. I figure with 5-6 leaves in the front and maybe a bit more in
the
> > rear, the springs will be severely taxed, but I think they could still
live
> > a decently long life...
> >
> > Any opinions or insights before I tear my rover apart again?
> >
> > J-L
> > _______________________________________________
> > LRO mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:00:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Ottawa Valley Land Rovers are alive
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Jean-Leon Morin <[email-masked]>
wrote:
> 
> Actually, Robin...
> 
> The OVLR is very much alive online... I think you
> have been away too long to
> realise it.

Considering the RoverWeb and OVLR.org as maintained by
Dixon Kenner and Ben Smith are wonderful resources,
methinks Robin needs to go have a Web browse before
proclaiming the existence of something we all know
about already.....

Been in the Ferret too long, Robin! 8*)

          ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: Luca Ingianni <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Ignition System - the key v the button
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:01:25 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Am Wednesday 12 December 2001 00:47 schrieb Elwyn FS:
> Hiya
>
> How easy is it to change the starter bit of the ignition to a push
> button.
>
> A friend of mine at work has a S3 but the key and barrel are badly worn.
> He has hit upon the idea of replacing the part of the ignition barrel
> which starts it with a push button, somewhere on his dash - he has
> enough holes for it!
>
> That way, he can turn the ignition on, and then press the button to
> start.

That's the way mine is since I bought it (so I don't even know how it's 
wired, but it should be pretty straight-forward IMO). And since whoever 
messed with the wiring in my truck (NO, not me) apparently was completely 
braindead it must have been really simple.

> So, Some people will argue that this is going backwards with evolution

IIRC Fiat do that on one of the very new models. I remember an ad showing 
a Start/Stop button.

> Cheers

-- 
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a
suitable application of high explosives.

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:49:37 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jean-Leon Morin wrote:
> 
> Yes I had John,
> 
> This was also a solution...
> 
> The only downside I can see to this type of setup is that the front horns of
> the chassis are already quite large and protrude, which impairs approach
> angle. By making them longer, I don't really fix the problem.
> 

Not really they would go down not forward. The approach angle wouldn't
change at all.
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:02:27 +0100
From: Edit 2 <[email-masked]>
Organization: Channel 6 Television Denmark
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is really my week for asking dumb questions...

I have followed the thread on raising the springs with a mixture of
interest and confusion.

Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
nicer when it's sitting up?

:-)
 
Adrian Redmond

---------------------------------------------------
CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
Foerlevvej 6, Mesing, DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
---------------------------------------------------
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile                       +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM                          +45 40 54 22 66
e-mail                       [email-masked]
---------------------------------------------------
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
---------------------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 14
Subject: Re: [lro] Ignition System - the key v the button
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 01 08:10:01 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> A friend of mine at work has a S3 but the key and barrel are badly worn.
> He has hit upon the idea of replacing the part of the ignition barrel
> which starts it with a push button, somewhere on his dash - he has
> enough holes for it!

I know this has got to be a dumb question but why not just buy a new 
genuine LR switch?

I've just ordered a new positive earth ignition/headlamp switch for my 
Land Rover since the switch part is going out.  

If it is just the lock barrel you can buy new ones and put them into the 
switch. 

Of course if the goal is to plug extra holes...

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "marko.cosic" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:14:33 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
nicer when it's sitting up?

---

It'll raise your ramp-over angle and approach/departure angles too.

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Rich Williams" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:35:10 -0800
Subject: [lro] [lro} Triplex Glass
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Does anyone know of a website that deals with vintage Triplex glass.  I'm
trying to help my dad find some glass for his '59 Jaguar.  Or, does anyone
know of any sources, in the U.S. or the U.K.?

Thanks,

Rich
'60 109 SW

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:00:23 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Simple!

Higher body allows use of larger tires. Larger tires increase ground
clearance and decrease rolling resistance to get over obstacles.

----- Original Message -----
From: marko.cosic <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.

>
> Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
> but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
> the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
> axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
> its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
> nicer when it's sitting up?

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:07:25 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

John sez:
>
> Not really they would go down not forward. The approach angle wouldn't
> change at all.
> >
I sez

> > The only downside I can see to this type of setup is that the front
horns of
> > the chassis are already quite large and protrude, which impairs approach
> > angle. By making them longer, I don't really fix the problem.
> >

They won't get worse, but they won't get better. I want to improve approach
and departure for the beast... My chassis is made a wee bit differently than
a stock one, and the extra meat at the frame horns means problems in the
approach department. I've scraped these enough to know they are a limiting
factor...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:44:17 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

It's simple, spring over decreases roll stability, and does nothing for 
axle/spring perch frame clearance (one of your complaints).  A spring over 
is a pretty drastic measure just to get tire clearance.  Cutting the fenders 
is a sound engineering means to accomodate larger tires.

I'm sure you've noticed that the serious rock crawling Jeep crowd cut the 
fenders before they lift the body.  Of course we're talking a design flaw in 
the TJ jeep that requires cutting or lifting the body to fit tires that are 
considered normal in a stock Rover.

To get frame clearance from the suspension, you've got to get all the 
suspension further away from the body.  A spring over exchanges the spring 
pack for the axle as the parts closest to the frame.  It doesn't change the 
distance of the two, however.  Taller springs and/or mounts combined with 
longer front springs will increase articulation/distance of the pieces from 
the frame.  Larger tires will decrease the apparoach/departure angle.  Might 
want to work out the geometry to see if the frame modifications to fit the 
longer front springs doesn't actually decrease approach/departure angles in 
combination with taller tires.

If memory serves me right, JL's frame is custom and doesn't follow the lines 
of the stock frame exactly or maybe even closely.  A frame over might work 
in his case but you've still got to get the separation from the frame and 
suspension with whatever modification you make.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie

>From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
>Simple!
>Higher body allows use of larger tires. Larger tires increase ground
>clearance and decrease rolling resistance to get over obstacles.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 20
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:00:23 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The idea is to make room for larger tyres without cutting the body. It
is the large tyres that increase the clearance. Lifts do increase the
break over angle which can be a factor with a long wheelbase vehicle.
John and Muddy 

Edit 2 wrote:
> 
> This is really my week for asking dumb questions...
> 
> I have followed the thread on raising the springs with a mixture of
> interest and confusion.
> 
> Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
> but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
> the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
> axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
> its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
> nicer when it's sitting up?
> 
> :-)
> 
> Adrian Redmond
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
> Foerlevvej 6, Mesing, DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
> ---------------------------------------------------
> telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
> telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
> telefacsimile                       +45 86 57 24 46
> mobile GSM                          +45 40 54 22 66
> e-mail                       [email-masked]
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "terry galbraith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Re: [lro] anti theft device
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:51:45 +1100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:24:52 -0800
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] anti theft device
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Paul wrote: >I had to laugh the other week when I was riding over from
Vancouver on one
>of our majestic BC Ferries.  500 cars below decks and we ran into some
rough
>seas that made the boat shudder a bit.  300 car alarms going off at once
>sure make a racket! ... I mean it's not like someone will be stealing your
car in the middle of the
>voyage...

There's a message in there somewhere. Something about one's security needs
being inversely proportional to one's common sense? Mmm ... bartender.

--__--__--

Message: 22
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 01 11:22:09 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If memory serves the original question mentioned lifting the body to deal 
with tall tyres that sit under the body wheel openings and not inside.  
He did not want to cut the body.

Personally I would either use the series axles or cut down the coiler 
axles to the series width.

>Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
>but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
>the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
>axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
>its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
>nicer when it's sitting up?

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:32:45 -0800
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: SV: [lro] Coming Home
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Fredrik,
    Everything in mine is stock Land Rover except the engine and the adapter
that allows you to mate Chevy with The original Series II Tranny.  This tranny
has been bolted to a V8 since 1967 and still works. It you boot it right from a
standstill on dry ground without wheel slippage, you WILL twist a driveshaft. If
you firmly accelerate
AFTER you are moving, you can give it full power without any trouble. It could
do with better brakes, but it is still a Land Rover and still only does 75
comfortably but does it up hill down hill and in your ladies chamber. And can
accelerate past things at 75 if it has to.  Your foot is never on the floor.
Kind regards,
Mark Pilkington
Fredrik Hedstrvm wrote:

> Hi Mark
> Great to here such a lovely story, I just got a mail from my Landys previous
> owner that was also something special.
>
> I am very curious about your SWB, my SWB Diesel here in Sweden might let me
> down soon enough.
>
> Do you have standard axles/brakes on your SWB?
> Do you have standard gear box/transfer box?
> Is there a write up about your conversion?
>
> I4ve seen one SWB in Australia with a 4.2 litre (296cui ?) V8 / Nissan gear
> box that I try to get info about but no luck. Owner said to be Colin O,
> anybody know more about that vehicle?
>
> Your car looks really great, I just hope mine will some day:
> http://hem.passagen.se/serie3/
>
> best regards
>
> Fredrik Hedstrom
> SWB sIII Diesel
>
> > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > >Fren: [email-masked]
> > >[mailto:[email-masked]]Fvr Mark
> > >Pilkington
> > >Skickat: den 11 december 2001 19:33
> > >Till: [email-masked]
> > >Dmne: [lro] Coming Home
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >One of the conditions of the sale when I bought my 67 Land
> > >Rover SWB from and
> > >old guy here locally was that I must bring it back and show
> > >him it when it was
> > >done. I agreed, and have thought about that a lot as the
> > >last 10 months have
> > >passed.  He lives 10 miles off the pavement and the Land
> > >Rover spent 16 years
> > >under the trees outside, after 10 years in a barn prior to a divorce.
> > >Yesterday, My wife and I were in the area where we bought it
> > >and it was a sunny
> > >day and we were not on any deadline so we thought that we
> > >would try to find his
> > >place again. As each turn came we remembered it as a few
> > >were tight to get the
> > >Range Rover and trailer around when we had taken it away.
> > >Pretty soon we were
> > >near the house and the Ex owner was working in his garden.
> > >As we came into view
> > >he put his hand on his chest and his mouth opened.  I
> > >stopped and he came up and
> > >said "now you are making me sad"  Concerned about whether we
> > >had upset him I
> > >reminded him that he had asked us to bring it back and he
> > >recovered and said
> > >that he was very glad we did but had actually thought that
> > >we would not remember
> > >to do it.  The Landy was sitting there resplendent in new
> > >paint, tires and
> > >engine, so different than she had been when we dragged her
> > >away. He said that he
> > >would never have got round to it even if he had kept her and
> > >he was glad we had
> > >her. He looked at so many things that he had done that were
> > >still the same.  He
> > >showed me little idiosyncrasies that he had known, he told
> > >us how he had bought
> > >it out of three divorces and even given it to his son who
> > >dumped it in a shed
> > >until he took it back years later.  He told us of places he
> > >had been and things
> > >he had done with it and in it. We were there for about an
> > >hour talking. He told
> > >us that he often wondered what we had done and that he had
> > >thought that it was
> > >too much of a project for us whippersnappers and that it was
> > >probably sitting in
> > >our barn neglected.  Meanwhile we were restoring, swearing,
> > >buying, unbolting,
> > >painting, cursing and finally registering it. He said that
> > >he heard the burble
> > >of the V8 before he saw it and knew it was us "because only
> > >the Utility company
> > >and Jehovah's Witnesses come down here."  It was a great day
> > >for him to see
> > >it.   I think that I will send a big photo for him to keep
> > >of before and after.
> > >He also invited us out on the trail next summer.  He has a
> > >nasty looking Jeep
> > >that he still drives and camps out of in the Rubicon.  He
> > >gave us a spare Land
> > >Rover wheel that he had found after we had taken it away and
> > >we left, driving
> > >the same old trail that it had driven years ago and early
> > >this year had been
> > >towed out on.  He also confirmed that the 327 V8 That he had
> > >in it was fitted
> > >when new by a custom order at the dealer here in Northern
> > >California. I put a
> > >350 in it because the 327 as dead so it was an easy swap.
> > >It had only had a
> > >2.25 four cylinder in it for the trip over here from Blighty
> > >in 1967 and all
> > >that time it has had the same tranny in it.
> > >Fun to complete the circle like that and to make good on a promise.
> > >Kind regards,
> > >Mark Pilkington
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >LRO mailing list
> > >[email-masked]
> > >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 24
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:33:56 -0800
From: Brian Horner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Howdy all,

So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior door
panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.  Rovers
North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is this
the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how they
did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.

Brian

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org
"Land Rover community, links and email services."

--__--__--

Message: 25
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:45:35 -0800
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

A lift is supposed to give you more room to articulate the wheel/Axle and
climb over a nasty big rock.
Mark

Edit 2 wrote:

> This is really my week for asking dumb questions...
>
> I have followed the thread on raising the springs with a mixture of
> interest and confusion.
>
> Raising the springs lifts the chassis and body higher above the axles,
> but does nothing to change the ground clfearance, as this is dictated by
> the radius of the wheels/tyres and the thickness and downhang of the
> axles and differential housings. So why bother lifting the body? Unless
> its to get a better view of the road or just because the truck looks
> nicer when it's sitting up?
>
> :-)
>
> Adrian Redmond
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK
> Foerlevvej 6, Mesing, DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
> ---------------------------------------------------
> telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
> telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
> telefacsimile                       +45 86 57 24 46
> mobile GSM                          +45 40 54 22 66
> e-mail                       [email-masked]
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:48:29 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The original trim had little spring clips that popped into existing
holes in the door frame.
John and Muddy 

Brian Horner wrote:
> 
> Howdy all,
> 
> So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior door
> panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.  Rovers
> North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is this
> the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how they
> did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.
> 
> Brian
> 
> ------------------------
> http://www.roverme.org
> "Land Rover community, links and email services."
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 27
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:48:27 -0800
Subject: Re: [lro] Interior Door Panels
From: Brian Horner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Right!  But the new door panels do not have little clips like that - or a
place to take the old clips and attach them.

Weird!

Brian

On 12/12/01 11:48 AM, "John Cranfield" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> 
> The original trim had little spring clips that popped into existing
> holes in the door frame.
> John and Muddy 
> 
> Brian Horner wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy all,
>> 
>> So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior door
>> panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.  Rovers
>> North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is this
>> the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how they
>> did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> ------------------------
>> http://www.roverme.org
>> "Land Rover community, links and email services."
>> _______________________________________________
>> LRO mailing list
>> [email-masked]
>> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> 

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org
"Land Rover community, links and email services."

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:45:15 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Reply-To: [email-masked]

That's how its done.  The top panel covering the joint between the door top and bottom has a lip at the top.  Drop the panel in the slot on top and drill and screw in on the bottom corners.  The bottom piece covering the door bottom is secured at least in the four corners.

Good luck,

Ron W.

>>> [email-masked] 12/12/01 02:33PM >>>

Howdy all,

So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior door
panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.  Rovers
North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is this
the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how they
did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.

Brian

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org 
"Land Rover community, links and email services."
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 29
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fredrik_Hedstr=F6m?= <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: SV: SV: [lro] Coming Home
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:57:51 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi Mark

I'm amazed by that... It opens up a new world for me :)

Do you (or anybody else) know who makes that adapter? I desperatly need one
to be able to beef up my truck.

Although fitting it in the engine compartment might take a while.

Fredrik Hedstrom

> >-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> >Fren: [email-masked]
> >[mailto:[email-masked]]Fvr Mark
> >Pilkington
> >Skickat: den 12 december 2001 20:33
> >Till: [email-masked]
> >Dmne: Re: SV: [lro] Coming Home
> >
> >
> >
> >Fredrik,
> >    Everything in mine is stock Land Rover except the engine
> >and the adapter
> >that allows you to mate Chevy with The original Series II
> >Tranny.  This tranny
> >has been bolted to a V8 since 1967 and still works. It you
> >boot it right from a
> >standstill on dry ground without wheel slippage, you WILL
> >twist a driveshaft. If
> >you firmly accelerate
> >AFTER you are moving, you can give it full power without any
> >trouble. It could
> >do with better brakes, but it is still a Land Rover and
> >still only does 75
> >comfortably but does it up hill down hill and in your ladies
> >chamber. And can
> >accelerate past things at 75 if it has to.  Your foot is
> >never on the floor.
> >Kind regards,
> >Mark Pilkington
> >Fredrik Hedstrvm wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Mark
> >> Great to here such a lovely story, I just got a mail from
> >my Landys previous
> >> owner that was also something special.
> >>
> >> I am very curious about your SWB, my SWB Diesel here in
> >Sweden might let me
> >> down soon enough.
> >>
> >> Do you have standard axles/brakes on your SWB?
> >> Do you have standard gear box/transfer box?
> >> Is there a write up about your conversion?
> >>
> >> I4ve seen one SWB in Australia with a 4.2 litre (296cui ?)
> >V8 / Nissan gear
> >> box that I try to get info about but no luck. Owner said
> >to be Colin O,
> >> anybody know more about that vehicle?
> >>
> >> Your car looks really great, I just hope mine will some day:
> >> http://hem.passagen.se/serie3/
> >>
> >> best regards
> >>
> >> Fredrik Hedstrom
> >> SWB sIII Diesel
> >>
> >> > >-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> >> > >Fren: [email-masked]
> >> > >[mailto:[email-masked]]Fvr Mark
> >> > >Pilkington
> >> > >Skickat: den 11 december 2001 19:33
> >> > >Till: [email-masked]
> >> > >Dmne: [lro] Coming Home
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >One of the conditions of the sale when I bought my 67 Land
> >> > >Rover SWB from and
> >> > >old guy here locally was that I must bring it back and show
> >> > >him it when it was
> >> > >done. I agreed, and have thought about that a lot as the
> >> > >last 10 months have
> >> > >passed.  He lives 10 miles off the pavement and the Land
> >> > >Rover spent 16 years
> >> > >under the trees outside, after 10 years in a barn prior
> >to a divorce.
> >> > >Yesterday, My wife and I were in the area where we bought it
> >> > >and it was a sunny
> >> > >day and we were not on any deadline so we thought that we
> >> > >would try to find his
> >> > >place again. As each turn came we remembered it as a few
> >> > >were tight to get the
> >> > >Range Rover and trailer around when we had taken it away.
> >> > >Pretty soon we were
> >> > >near the house and the Ex owner was working in his garden.
> >> > >As we came into view
> >> > >he put his hand on his chest and his mouth opened.  I
> >> > >stopped and he came up and
> >> > >said "now you are making me sad"  Concerned about whether we
> >> > >had upset him I
> >> > >reminded him that he had asked us to bring it back and he
> >> > >recovered and said
> >> > >that he was very glad we did but had actually thought that
> >> > >we would not remember
> >> > >to do it.  The Landy was sitting there resplendent in new
> >> > >paint, tires and
> >> > >engine, so different than she had been when we dragged her
> >> > >away. He said that he
> >> > >would never have got round to it even if he had kept her and
> >> > >he was glad we had
> >> > >her. He looked at so many things that he had done that were
> >> > >still the same.  He
> >> > >showed me little idiosyncrasies that he had known, he told
> >> > >us how he had bought
> >> > >it out of three divorces and even given it to his son who
> >> > >dumped it in a shed
> >> > >until he took it back years later.  He told us of places he
> >> > >had been and things
> >> > >he had done with it and in it. We were there for about an
> >> > >hour talking. He told
> >> > >us that he often wondered what we had done and that he had
> >> > >thought that it was
> >> > >too much of a project for us whippersnappers and that it was
> >> > >probably sitting in
> >> > >our barn neglected.  Meanwhile we were restoring, swearing,
> >> > >buying, unbolting,
> >> > >painting, cursing and finally registering it. He said that
> >> > >he heard the burble
> >> > >of the V8 before he saw it and knew it was us "because only
> >> > >the Utility company
> >> > >and Jehovah's Witnesses come down here."  It was a great day
> >> > >for him to see
> >> > >it.   I think that I will send a big photo for him to keep
> >> > >of before and after.
> >> > >He also invited us out on the trail next summer.  He has a
> >> > >nasty looking Jeep
> >> > >that he still drives and camps out of in the Rubicon.  He
> >> > >gave us a spare Land
> >> > >Rover wheel that he had found after we had taken it away and
> >> > >we left, driving
> >> > >the same old trail that it had driven years ago and early
> >> > >this year had been
> >> > >towed out on.  He also confirmed that the 327 V8 That he had
> >> > >in it was fitted
> >> > >when new by a custom order at the dealer here in Northern
> >> > >California. I put a
> >> > >350 in it because the 327 as dead so it was an easy swap.
> >> > >It had only had a
> >> > >2.25 four cylinder in it for the trip over here from Blighty
> >> > >in 1967 and all
> >> > >that time it has had the same tranny in it.
> >> > >Fun to complete the circle like that and to make good
> >on a promise.
> >> > >Kind regards,
> >> > >Mark Pilkington
> >> > >_______________________________________________
> >> > >LRO mailing list
> >> > >[email-masked]
> >> > >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> LRO mailing list
> >> [email-masked]
> >> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 30
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "'Brian Horner '" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked] '"
  <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:39:20 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 A word of warning, don't use those natty dished washers for fitting under
screw heads. They act like circle cutters and nip right though the vinyl.
Try to find nylon washers to fit your screws.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Horner
To: [email-masked]
Sent: 12/12/01 2:33 PM
Subject: [lro] Interior Door Panels

Howdy all,

So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior
door
panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.
Rovers
North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is
this
the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how
they
did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.

Brian

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org
"Land Rover community, links and email services."
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 31
Subject: Re: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 01 12:54:09 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>So I just received the two upper left-hand and right-hand side interior door
>panels for my Series III 88" and I am confused on something here.  Rovers
>North told me to drill these bad boys in using finishing screws - is this
>the preferred method?  If so, anyone have any images or advice on how they
>did it?  Seems weird to drill right through the new panel fabric.

The Land Rover factory lower door panels had spring steel push-in 
attachment thingies atached to the base cardboard.  So there were no 
external holes.  THe middle panel used a sheet metal screw at each end 
plus the two used for the door handle. Sorry I do not remember what the 
top used.  The top has an inverted 'J' at the top that hooks over the top 
& anchors it.  I just don't remember what anchors the bottom.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 32
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:56:37 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Whoa, folks... Let me clarify why I am thinking of doing a spring over.

First of all, the increased track of the axles makes them inpossible to tuck
the tires inside the body. Narrowing the axles is out of the question - one
of the main reasons I wanted to do this is for the decreased turning radius
and increased track...

I'm not against cutting the body - I plan on doing a couple of clearance
mods, similar to those seen on John Cranfield's Muddy. I am against cutting
off half the side of the body to make some space for larger tires... I find
that approach a little extreme. The modifications are not simply to "see how
big I can stuff a tire on a series", but I'd like to improve the performance
of the suspension at the same time, and increase the ramp breakover angle of
the vehicle. 109's are a lot longer than most 88" drivers think, and with
stock suspension getting stuck on a bump is somewhat common. Also, the long
overhang at the rear is a problem, so by lifting the vehicle a few inches,
everything comes up and your are less often stuck rear wheels spinning, your
rear crossmember sitting on a rock ;-)

I figure that since the stock land rover will tip over at about 45 degrees
and has an outer track width of about 60", the CG must be about 30" from the
ground... Again, this is really approximative. By increasing track with the
wider wheels and tires by 10", I can anticipate the vehicle to perform about
the same (not keeing in mind the suspension flex) if I raise the CG 5". It
would still tip over at 45 degrees. Of course, of this 5 inches, 1.5 is
tires, so the actual suspension lift would only be about 3.5". This seems
like a reasonable number to me, and is what I'd like to achieve. This means
by removing a bit of leafs, and possibly flattening the springs a bit, I'd
hit the 3" magic spot where the vehicle should generally be decently
stable...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 33
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:05:33 -0800
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] 88' Gross weight
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Does anyone know the gross weight of a Series II SWB
Thanks
Mark

--__--__--

Message: 34
From: "Rich Williams" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] 88' Gross weight
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:19:04 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've got that number at home - if no on knows before this evening I'll look
when I get home tonight.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: [lro] 88' Gross weight

Does anyone know the gross weight of a Series II SWB
Thanks
Mark
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 35
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:17:52 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In response to Peter Ogilvie's post...
>
> It's simple, spring over decreases roll stability, and does nothing for
> axle/spring perch frame clearance (one of your complaints).  A spring over
> is a pretty drastic measure just to get tire clearance.  Cutting the
fenders
> is a sound engineering means to accomodate larger tires.
>
The interference I'm getting is the axletube hitting the chassis rail where
the bumpstop should be. You are right in assuming that the chassis's one-off
design makes this worse than a regular series truck... it is a serious
design flaw with my chassis... I wish I had some pictures to better explain
this.  Putting more distance between the frame and any object that goes bump
(axle tube, or the spring in a spring over) will give me a couple of inches
clearance to install good bumpstops.... and hopefully dampen the thump on
extreme drops or potholes.

As I have mentioned, if I was merely trying to fit tires, I'd just skilsaw
the wings... but since at the same time I'm basically redoing the entire
suspension and driveline again, I'd figure I might as well try and make
things work better off-road to take advantage of the larger tires and maybe
improve articulation a bit.

> I'm sure you've noticed that the serious rock crawling Jeep crowd cut the
> fenders before they lift the body.  Of course we're talking a design flaw
in
> the TJ jeep that requires cutting or lifting the body to fit tires that
are
> considered normal in a stock Rover.
>
Yes, I'm not a big fan of the redneck machine rockcrawlers although some
designs are interesting. The most common thing amongst rock rigs (other than
fender trimming) is to fit wider axles to their machines... This increases
the basewidth of their vehicle, and makes the tires stick out of the body,
and increases stability. That's one of the major ideas behind putting the
wider coiler axles on the rover. I want to try and limit the amount of lift
because I'd like the vehicle to gain some height to clear obstacles and
larger tires, etc, but still be low enough to remain decently stable.

I think if my front bumper ended up 5" higher than it is now, with the
larger tires, I'd be happy. That would mean spring over, with dearched,
deleafed, much softer springs, which would allow more body roll, and easier
rollovers, but at the same time allow better articulation...

> To get frame clearance from the suspension, you've got to get all the
> suspension further away from the body.  A spring over exchanges the spring
> pack for the axle as the parts closest to the frame.  It doesn't change
the
> distance of the two, however.

Yes it does. The spring rate is the same. The spring will stay in the same
spot whether the axles in above or below it... Therefore it will "raise" the
vehicle... Theoretically, if you move the axle tube to the bottom of the
spring, you gain the thichkness of the axletube between the spring's upper
surface and the chassis - more travel.

  Taller springs and/or mounts combined with
> longer front springs will increase articulation/distance of the pieces
from
> the frame.  Larger tires will decrease the apparoach/departure angle.
Might
> want to work out the geometry to see if the frame modifications to fit the
> longer front springs doesn't actually decrease approach/departure angles
in
> combination with taller tires.
>
One of the reasons I'm not willing to get into longer springs until I get
this one together. I want to make sure that there is some room to put rear
leafs in front.

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 36
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:40:20 +0100
To: [email-masked]
From: Harald Hansen <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Interior Door Panels
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 15:39 12.12.01 -0500, Easton Trevor A wrote:
>
> A word of warning, don't use those natty dished washers for fitting under
>screw heads. They act like circle cutters and nip right though the vinyl.
>Try to find nylon washers to fit your screws.

I've used those washers to good effect on my old 88".  You mean the kind
that fits a screw with a lens-shaped head, right?  If so, I would recommend
inspecting them closely to see if they're shaped like they could cut
something before you screw them into the vinyl.

Harald

-- 
Harald Hansen                           #========#       1975 and 1976
SW engineer, strategy gamer, LR owner   |___|__|__\___     Land Rover
E-mail: harald74@online[DOT]no          |  _|  |   |_ |} Series III 109" 
        harald.hansen@kongsberg[DOT]com ""(_)""""""(_)"   Station Wagons

--__--__--

Message: 37
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:54:39 +0100
From: Edit 2 <[email-masked]>
Organization: Channel 6 Television Denmark
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm probably sticking my neck out here... but...

If the only gain of liufting the chassis to allow for larger wheels is a
slightly higher ground clearance - which cannot be more than a few
inches (unless its one of those Icelandic sub-chassis jobs) - then I
fail to see the advantage.

Off road obstacles - in my experience - vary in size from small enough
to go under the car, to large enough not to, and the number of
variations which won't clear the axles is so broad, that an extra couple
of inches - in practice - will not give the vehicle any substantial
increased ability to go places where the original axles wouldn't.

And all this at the price of meddling with the stability of the
originbal design?

Furthermore, every time I have fitted new leaf springs, I have
experienced, within a year or so, that the vehicle settles a couple of
inches lower again - surely this will also be the case for a lifted
design, so that the actual height gain which can safely be allocated to
new larger tyres/wheels should also take this into account?

I haven't tried this number myself, and I haven't seen the numbers
involved - but it would appear that the gains are short-lived and
dubious?

I can understand the logic of the Icelandic massive lifts acheived by
fitting a sub-chassis and new drive chain underneath the stock chassis
(though I think these are real ugly) - at least these result in a gain
of over 12" clearance - which, combined with extra articulation,  really
makes certain areas of terrain accesible which previously were closed to
vehicles. But I would noit like to try high speed cornering in such a
truck either. As the wheels on such conversions often are outside the
bodywork, such conversions would probably be illegal in most European
countries (which is whjy we have eyebrows on Defender wheel arches).

OK, that's my fuel to the fire - good luck with the big springs anyhow!

:-)

Adrian Redmond

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--__--__--

Message: 38
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:06:41 -0500
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Tyre clearance
Reply-To: [email-masked]

J-l,  look at a military frame,  a 2 inch lift is provided by the simple
expedient of using deeper brackets for mounting the front of the springs
and using a 2 inch longer shackle at the rear. Castor angles are
maintained and prop shaft drive angles are still within reasonable
limits.  Not a lot of welding and cutting required, much less than all
the axle work you are going to do.

Regards from Western New York State

  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 39
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:12:07 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Adrian,

I agree with you that a few inches of ground clearance is not going to make
a whole lot of difference. However, on a vehicle that has no difflocks,
suspension acticulation and compliance is of an extreme importance. Lifting
a wheel means no forward movement.

Referring to what I have seen and done with Jeeps, the increases in wheel
travel are quite substantial, and this would prove to be a definite
advantage in my off-road adventures.

I am sorry if some find this a waste of bandwidth, I agree with you that
this is probably of little interest to the average series owner, but I am
just trying to gather a baggage of information. As with all I do, it's
always a learning experience, and I hope some of you are profiting from the
discussions besides myself...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 40
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:46:20 +0100
From: Edit 2 <[email-masked]>
Organization: Channel 6 Television Denmark
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Series spring over.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Waste of bandwidth? No way - this is very interesting to many of us I
would suspect, after all, its the discussion of what at first may seem
crazy ideas which often results in progress. As always when someone
suggests something different, there will be soothsayers who either don't
get the point (that's me) or whose perceptions of correct rovering may
be offended (though I'm not sure there are any of those on this issue).

I can see the theoretical gains, but from years of off-roading (which I
have never done as a sport I must admit - only as a way of getting a
film unit as far off the beaten track and as close to the location as
possible without getting our feet and gear wet) I must say that the few
times when either I couldn't get through or I got stuck, then I doubt
that a couple of inches would have made the difference. I'm talking
about silly terrain in Iceland, Norway, and everyday mud and snow here
in denmark.

I may also be coloured by the bureaucratic regulations here in Denmark,
which prevent legal modification of a vehgicle without tests and
documentation which even a car importer finds expensive to supply. A
popular modification for example is the use of 109" brack drums and
backplates (and cylinders etc.) on 88" series vehicves - which (someone
will correct me if I am wrong here) was actually standard on the late
88"'s anyway. When you turn up for your MOT test in denmark every year,
they look up the vehicles spec for the year of manufacture on the
computer, and almost anything non-spec other than radios, ash-trays and
furry-dice will get a failure. That makes us recitent to try hacking the
basic design about too much.

But it doesn't mean that i think its a lousy idea, just that for me, the
apparent gains are not worth the trouble.

But I would be interested in hearing the results of your attempts.

On a funny note, there was a Danish LRO who fitted bigger wheels/tyres
on his series, which worked fine until the steering was adjusted, and a
rebuild of the swivel housing somehow resulted in him losing his rusted
endstops (how many of us are missing our endstops eh?) well at the first
right hand turn his left wheel ripped the left wing off, and when he
turned left to correct, the right wheel ripped the right wing off. Which
goes to validate my grandfatehrs old workshop maxim "Measure twice, cut
once" or something like that...

:-)

Adrian Redmond

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Foerlevvej 6, Mesing, DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
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telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
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