Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #182 - 18 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 03:06:47 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: US promised as number one priority market ([email-masked])
   2. Battery and Disco '96 q? (Garrick Olsen)
   3. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Jeff Berg)
   4. RE: Battery and Disco '96 q? (John Trotter)
   5. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (TeriAnn Wakeman)
   6. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Paul Quin)
   7. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Jeff Berg)
   8. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Paul Quin)
   9. Batteries (Alan J. Richer)
  10. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA ([email-masked])
  11. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Jeff Berg)
  12. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (David Scheidt)
  13. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Keith Tanner)
  14. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (G. Mugele)
  15. Optima battery bought ([email-masked])
  16. Overdrive oils (A. P. "Sandy" Grice)
  17. Re: what battery to buy for a IIA (Kirk Hillman)
  18. Re: Overdrive oils (Kirk Hillman)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 03:32:39 EST
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: US promised as number one priority market
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Frank Elson <[email-masked]>

<< it isn't the body design, chrome wheels and vanity equipment, as such, 
that worries some of us, it's all the fancy electrickery, that stops the 
vehicles being honest-to-goodness workhorses that can be repaired on the 
driveway...and to my mind Land Rover has already overstepped that mark with 
the vehicles (including Defenders) it is selling right now...>>

Haven't they all?  I may be a crusty old curmudgeon, but there is very little 
in the way of new trucks on the market in the US that appeal to me.  Even 
entry level, un-optioned, pickups are full of electronics and plastic.  
Yecch. 

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109
Denver

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Message: 2
From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 10:04:59 -0600
Subject: [lro] Battery and Disco '96 q?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If the terminals are pionting the wrong way, turn the battery around!

I had a coil question, but the rro list rejected me (maybe couild smell the 
90 wt?)
NAS Disco 1996 SE7:  did any come over as 5 speed, or was the level of trim 
including an autobox?

-Rik
1960 SWB SW

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:11:34 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Another CT guy here. FINSUP is using an Optima.

jeff

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Message: 4
From: "John Trotter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Battery and Disco '96 q?
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:15:16 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm almost certain that the SE7 had a manual option.  I got my Disco in 96,
and was looking for a manual and remember noting that I either had to get
the SD (low end) or SE7 (high end) - the mid range one (SE) only came with
an auto.  I ended up with an SD.

John
96 Disco (manual)
64 IIA

>I had a coil question, but the rro list rejected
>me (maybe couild smell the 90 wt?)
>NAS Disco 1996 SE7:  did any come over as 5 speed,
>or was the level of trim including an autobox?
>
>-Rik
>1960 SWB SW

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Message: 5
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 01 08:37:06 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>they used the name "Die Hard."  That's usually what they do, in the 
>worst possible
>place and time.  I've seen 36- and 48-month models pack up in a year or 
>slightly more.

For another data point I've been using diehards for 30 plus years and I 
have never had one go bad within the warrenty period.  It was usualy long 
afterwards or I sold the vehicle first.

I replaced a diehard in '99 that had at least 10 years daily use because 
it would not fit in the location I had after the engine transplant.  Not 
because it was bad.

I suspect most car batterys will live a long life if you get one with a 
lot more capacity than you need, don't drain it down and keep it topped 
up with frequent use.

Deep draining and letting one sit just seem to shorten the life 
expectency a lot.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 09:26:53 -0800
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW Says "I suspect most car batteries will live a long life if you get one
with a
lot more capacity than you need, don't drain it down and keep it topped
up with frequent use."

That and keep it secured in place with the proper tie downs / battery tray
mounts.  Nothings worse for a battery than letting shake rattle and role
around in the engine compartment.  It gets a harsh enough ride already just
being in a Series LR.

>From what I've heard, there are only two or three battery manufacturers out
there anyway.  Sears / NAPA / Interstate et al just stamp their brand name
on a generic battery.

Legend or fact??

Paul in Victoria.

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 12:36:46 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Recent Die Hards haven't served me well during the winter months. I 
don't care if Sears will replace it--I want a battery that starts the 
truck in a dark parking lot at 2am when all I want is to get home and 
into bed.

Like most things Sears sells under their own name, it seems the once 
vaunted Die Hard brand is now put out to bid on a "can we afford to 
replace it under warranty" basis. Sometimes you get a good one, 
sometimes it's mediocre--but "will be replaced." I prefer to buy 
knowing what to expect.

Yes, there are only a handful of battery makers. But they make a wide 
variety of batteries at many price points. I prefer a top quality 
battery.

And I'll be totally honest, the jury is still out on my 
Optima--particularly it's cold weather performance. But to be fair, 
it seems as if my starter could use a little work as of late.

YMMV

Jeff

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 10:16:36 -0800
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jeff writes "Yes, there are only a handful of battery makers. But they make
a wide
variety of batteries at many price points. I prefer a top quality
battery."

That's my point, don't base your choice on brand name as much on technology
inside.  Although the brand does affect the customer service level after the
sale...

Paul in Victoria.

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 10:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Batteries
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The old Landy manuals call out a Type 27 F battery
form factor unless my brain has rotted completely.
Basically, a damn big tractor battery....8*)

Last one I dropped into Miss Jessica was a standard
Type 27 - believe the F denotes reverse terminals for
positive ground. Jess is still that way, but I just
made sure the cables reached and this worked OK. I had
repositioned the ground lead from the battery box to
the engine block in any case, so the reversed
terminals were not an issue.

As far as batteries go, I used to swear by Die Hards
myself - but considering the price they're getting for
them at Sears, NTB and the like I refuse to purchase
them quality or not. I do not part with money for a
brand name.

One trick I've been told of is to look at the
expiration of the "full replacement" part of the
warranty and use that as an indicator of the quality
of the battery - the longer the freebie period the
better. The Deka I put in was good for 3 years, most
others I found were at best two.

BTW, if you can find a DEKA dealer in your
neighborhood don't hesitate to shop them - DEKA is a
company that makes industrial batteries of all types
and incidentally vehicle batteries too...heavy-duty
stuff at a reasonable price.

The place I bought mine was a local battery rebuilding
shop - grubby place on an industrial back street in
Lowell - but that didn't bother me in the slightest as
they also had no problem in taking the 5 years'
suppply of dead car batteries I had lying about the
place. Let's see AutoZone do that w/o a half-hour
argument.... 8*)

         ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:53:19 EST
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 12/9/01 9:40:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> dark parking lot at 2am when all I want is to get home and 
> into bed.
> 
> 

I will issue no writ about bars closing at 2:00 AM

:)

Zack ;)

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:08:28 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I will issue no writ about bars closing at 2:00 AM

Sometimes it's a bar, sometimes that's the time I get off the train 
after working in NYC. Regardless, I want the car to start...

jeff

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:19:51 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: LRO list <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sun, 9 Dec 2001, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> I replaced a diehard in '99 that had at least 10 years daily use because 
> it would not fit in the location I had after the engine transplant.  Not 
> because it was bad.
> 
> I suspect most car batterys will live a long life if you get one with a 
> lot more capacity than you need, don't drain it down and keep it topped 
> up with frequent use.
> 
> Deep draining and letting one sit just seem to shorten the life 
> expectency a lot.

Letting a starting battery go flat, from leaving your lights on,
cranking an engine that won't start, driving with a dead alternator, or
whatever is very bad for the battery.  A single deep discharge of a starting
battery will cut its lifespan by something like a quarter.  If you take good
care of the battery, making sure the electrolyte levels are right, don't
discharge it, don't overcharge it, it should last a good long time.  Ten
years seems unlikely, but if you live somewhere it doesn't get cold, it
might be possible.  

david

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 14:34:28 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The battery in my Miata is an AGM style or something like that. I think 
it's similar to what's used in the Optimas. They won't take a normal "fast" 
charge which often leads to premature last rites, but a trickle charge 
makes them happy.

The reason I mention this is because my original Miata battery, built 
sometime in early 1990, is still going strong. It spent the majority of its 
life in Ottawa, so it's been cold. Even after 3 weeks of being parked 
outside and connected, it would still happily crank the engine over.

Keith
------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 13:47:48 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 3:19 PM -0500 12/9/01, David Scheidt wrote:
>If you take good
>care of the battery, making sure the electrolyte levels are right, don't
>discharge it, don't overcharge it, it should last a good long time.  Ten
>years seems unlikely, but
<snip>

Ya think?

In 1974 my '72 series III 88 had pretty much used up its original 
battery.  At the same time, JC Penney Automotive introduced their new 
sealed battery (remember when a regular maintenance meant checking 
battery acid levels?) and they guaranteed the thing for the life of 
the vehicle.  A pretty arrogant stance I thought, but since, at the 
time, I planned to keep the Series III forever (+/- an eternity) it 
seemed like a good deal for $45.

For 19 years it gave me absolutely no problems.  That time included 
one two year period where is wasn't started at all (due to extensive 
work related travel) and when I had time to turn it over, it cranked. 
The LR wouldn't start right away, due to corrosion fuzz on the 
points, but the battery was ready.  I was amazed.

JC Penney Automotive is long since gone.  The battery outlasted them 
by nearly a decade.  I replaced it when it began losing its charge 
after sitting for a week or so.  I have no idea who actually produced 
it but I'd love to get another.

For general reference:  the only batteries I've had that lasted less 
than five years were those I used in motorcycles and in diesel 
powered cars.  The two Vargas that I had in my BMW R75 were only good 
for a year each.  The Japanese battery I installed next was there 
until I sold the bike five years later.

Cheers,
Gerry Mugele    --  ("Peat" '95 D90 SW)

***  They say  "Great Discoveries are made by not following 
instructions."   Does this explain Land Rover assembly line practices?

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 18:02:27 -0500
Subject: [lro] Optima battery bought
Reply-To: [email-masked]

thanks to all for the tech and battery advice. I found an optima at a pep boys
in manchester. I was surprised to find good service here as well as the berlin
tpke store. the one in west htfd is awful.

i live in west hartford. i just need to put new shoes on the front brakes and
change the oil and i'm ready for some fun. i've been finding about alot of
owners in the area lately.

rove on,
chill willGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 21:55:43 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Overdrive oils
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 Nate <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Yup.  BTW, the Hi-Tach is really important for a OD.  Tends to keep the oil 
>on the gears and bearings--I believe (without scientific proof) that it will 
>lengthen the life of the unit and keeps the unit much quieter (this part is 
>with personal experience)

My overdirve used to really lose oil to the T-box.  As Nate sez, however,
after the addition of Hi-Tach, the oil seems to stick around.  (pun
intended)  Hi-Tach significantly lowers the operating temperature in the
T-box.

Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----*
  |                                                    |
  |              A. P. "Sandy" Grice                   |
  |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
  |  (757)423-4898  (757)622-7054  FAX (757)622-7056   |
  |                                                    |
  *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] what battery to buy for a IIA
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:20:37 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> care of the battery, making sure the electrolyte levels are right, don't
> discharge it, don't overcharge it, it should last a good long time.  Ten
> years seems unlikely, but if you live somewhere it doesn't get cold, it
> might be possible.
>
> david
 David,
    I think you might be wrong about that.  I don't have all that much
experience in the area, but I like good batteries.  The battery in my old
truck is about 8 years old.  I have over charged it, run it dead, and just
about every other terrible thing you can do to a battery.  It still runs
like a champ.  It wasn't a cheap battery.  I don't remember the battery
name, but it's a Canadian manufacturer.  A friend related to the trucking
industry told me that all the big companies he dealt with used the same
brand in their big trucks.  BTW, it's worth noting that my truck has never
been garaged and the darn battery still started my 350 without fail every
winter (as low as -40C).  (Don't ask me why I would go driving in -40
weather, I was a wee lad at the time.  ;-)
    Anyhow, the point is that a good battery is the way to go.  I feel the
same way about batteries as I do motors.  Treat them well with good
intentions, but understand that at some point, purposely or not, they WILL
be abused.  Life isn't perfect, don't buy a battery that needs it to be.
    As for Optimas, I have had two.  Yellow and red top.  The yellow top was
borrowed by my father temporarily when his battery died.  A couple months
later he sold the truck... with MY OPTIMA IN IT!  So I can't comment on the
durability of the Deep Cycle unit, but the red top is in the LR now and has
held up remarkably well considering a winching load, far too many lights,
underrated alternator, bad connections, etc.  It still works well after only
2-3 years.  Time will tell.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Overdrive oils
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:28:02 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Okay list, I have heard about this amazing Hi-tac(h/k) stuff for some time.
I have never seen it.  What kind of container does it come in?  What does it
look like?  Who in Canada carries it?  I have an OD that is fairly loud that
I would like to try it in before I try full synthetic to compare.

Thanks,
Kirk

> My overdirve used to really lose oil to the T-box.  As Nate sez, however,
> after the addition of Hi-Tach, the oil seems to stick around.  (pun
> intended)  Hi-Tach significantly lowers the operating temperature in the
> T-box.
>
> Cheers

--__--__--

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End of LRO Digest