Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #171 - 38 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 03:05:48 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Fauna fenders (apsilon)
   2. Re: Fauna fenders (apsilon)
   3. Re: Fauna fenders (apsilon)
   4. Re: British Tools (Mark  Love)
   5. Re: no LR content, but looking for a quote (Larry Smith)
   6. Re: British Tools (Alan J. Richer)
   7. Changing Rooms (Easton Trevor A)
   8. RE: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Easton Trevor A)
   9. Re: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Par Leijonhufvud)
  10. Re: Fauna fenders (Phil Norris)
  11. Re: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Phil Norris)
  12. RE: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Easton Trevor A)
  13. Re: no LR content, but looking for a quote (John Cranfield)
  14. Re: cart guards (DaveB)
  15. Re: Fauna fenders (DaveB)
  16. Re: Fauna fenders (DaveB)
  17. Re: Series power steering? (Lonn & Rhonda)
  18. Re: Series power steering? (Derek Pommerenck)
  19. Re: Series power steering? (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  20. No bull (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  21. Owl's well that ends well.... (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  22. No bull (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  23. Re: Owl's well that ends well.... (Jeff Bieler)
  24. Re: cart guards (Hope Peter)
  25. RE: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Keith Tanner)
  26. Re: British Tools (Brian Horner)
  27. Re: British Tools (Jeff Berg)
  28. Re: no LR content, but looking for a quote (Brian Horner)
  29. Re: no LR content, but looking for a quote (Jeremy)
  30. EZ out...NOT! (george kase)
  31. Bullbars (was fauna fenders) (Faure, Marin)
  32. Ground Force (was Junkyard wars) (Faure, Marin)
  33. Re: Not urban legend (Faure, Marin)
  34. Re: cart guards (Alan J. Richer)
  35. RE: no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?) (Alan J. Richer)
  36. British spanners (William L Leacock)
  37. Fwd: Re: Safety Item (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  38. Re: Fwd: Re: Safety Item (Par Leijonhufvud)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "apsilon" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:50:34 +1100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> By jeesum looks like you could stand your rig on its nose to save parking
> space! Cripes! I'd say it would stop a bison!

With the brake system I'm currently building I probably will be able to
stand it on it's nose :)

Matt.
Sydney Australia
'75 Series III 88

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "apsilon" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:53:45 +1100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> "Trying to get out"? Do you have any idea how big a full-grown boomer is?
> If you get one into the windshield, you and the roo are dead from the
> impact. Think really big deer or a small moose.

They're big alright. You get a big red into a series and you're already dead
and the truck is probably a write off so no need to worry about it getting
out.

Matt.
Sydney Australia
'75 Series III 88

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "apsilon" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:55:32 +1100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Matt, I reckon when you take that off you'll double your speed and triple 
> your fuel mileage ;-)

Maybe it's why I'm only getting 5mpg LOL

Matt.
Sydney Australia
'75 Series III 88 

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Mark  Love" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] British Tools
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:07:54 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Snap-on still lists Whitworth sockets and wrenches in the catalog and i like mine very much. Mark
Love

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Larry Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a quote
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:22:15 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here in the land of NASCAR they have another bumper sticker.

"I'm not tailgating, I'm drafting"

Larry Smith
Chester, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Par Leijonhufvud" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: 29 November, 2001 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a quote

>
> Scott Wickham <[email-masked]> [2001.11.29] wrote:
> >   Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by
angry
> > sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to
think
> > people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want
a
> > look.  Who knows.
>
> Nahh, they'll tailgate anyway. The reason, as far as I can understand
> the "reasoning" behind it, is that firstly you are not driving like you
> were second in the final lap on Le Mans (and is thus obstructing their
> basic human right to drive at 30% above the speed limit), and secondly
> the fact that, as a friend once put it "you gain one point for every
> vehicle you overtake, but loose five every time you are overtaken".
>
> Best bumpersticker seen on the topic "If you are going to come any close
> you'll need to wear a condom".
>
> /Par
>
> --
> Par Leijonhufvud                                      [email-masked]
> Imagine how much money could be saved by putting Furbies on
> front-line helpdesk. -- Michael Brown in asr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 03:53:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] British Tools
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Y'know, after buying sets of Whitworth wrenches and
sockets for 10 quid each at a Rover doins' in the UK I
wonder what it would take for me to find the importer
of these items...

Yes, they weren't Snap-On - but they're quite usable
and of reasonable quality.

Hmmmmm....

More to the point, Brian - unless you are restoring a
Series 1 or a very early II your need for Whitworth
will be minimal. FOr years (until the above purchase
last year) I made do using metric sockets as fill-in
wherever needed. FOr example, the propshaft to rear
drive flange bolts yield nicely to 14MM....

           ajr
--- Brian Horner <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have any good websites or places to
> purchase British Standard
> hand tools?  Also, I am just starting in on my new
> Series vehicle and was
> wondering if there is any difference at all between
> the different British
> tool types that appear to be available:  BA, BSW and
> BSF?  Hey, we all have
> to start somewhere.  ;o)
> 
> Thank you
> Brian
> 
> ------------------------
> http://www.roverme.org
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:36:34 -0500
Subject: [lro] Changing Rooms
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Watched this show last night for first time. Thanks for the advice Frank.

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:44:37 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
- Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)

Now I just use it as a mantra...

  Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by angry
sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to think
people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want a
look.  Who knows.

Scooter
_______________________________________________
Now there's an idea. Tailgater bars. Substantial steel structure with plenty
of sharp bits sticking out. Radiator destroyer disguised as tow ball, etc

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:00:01 +0100
From: Par Leijonhufvud <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]> [2001.11.29] wrote:
> Now there's an idea. Tailgater bars. Substantial steel structure with plenty
> of sharp bits sticking out. Radiator destroyer disguised as tow ball, etc

Wanna! Much more usefull than the normal fauna fenders.

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                                      [email-masked]
Thin red line of 'eroes when the drums begin to roll 
		--Rudyard Kipling 

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:01:03 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Must be the one gadget you've _not_ got fitted then!!!
;~))
PhilN
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Brownlee <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: 28 November 2001 18:28
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders

>
><humour mode ON>
>
>Hey! Look I like to take my MTV (tm) to Tesco and play with the
>trolleys...you mean you've never been trolley bowling?! Simple game, just
>drive round and round the car park until you see a lone trolley then try
and
>herd it with your MTV (tm) towards the rest of them. Extra points are given
>for a long distance shove....
>
><humour mode OFF>
>
>To be honest, I agree, but I don't have a bullbar on Piglet........
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Neil (#150)
>
>1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet'
>1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet' - XD9000i, Terrain Master Winch
>Bumper & Hi-Lift carrier, Bearmach steering/sump guard, Mantec Side
>Protection Sills, Scorpion Racing +2" suspension lift, De-Carbon Shocks,
>Southdown Fuel Tank Guard, 235/85/16  Goodyear Wrangler MT/R's, WH
>Wheelcarriers Diff Guards, JE Engineering 4 Tailpipe SS Exhaust, Safari
>Snorkel
>1998 Land Rover Freelander - 'Misty'
>
>http://www.PigletV8i.org.uk
>http://community.webshots.com/user/landroverdiscoveryv8i
>http://www.northantsdoc.co.uk
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:27:46 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Aren't they already on the market?? big ex-mil swiveling hitches??
I've just got a "pin-ball" wizard but I dread backing into supermarket
spaces and missing a low-nosed car.  Mind you a lot of small htachbacks
these days are plastic-nosed so they just boing back..!!
PhilN
-----Original Message-----
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]' <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 November 2001 12:48
Subject: RE: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)

>
>"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
>hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
>- Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956)
>
>Now I just use it as a mantra...
>
>
>  Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by
angry
>sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to think
>people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want a
>look.  Who knows.
>
>Scooter
>_______________________________________________
>Now there's an idea. Tailgater bars. Substantial steel structure with
plenty
>of sharp bits sticking out. Radiator destroyer disguised as tow ball, etc
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:29:22 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Aren't they already on the market?? big ex-mil swiveling hitches??
I've just got a "pin-ball" wizard but I dread backing into supermarket
spaces and missing a low-nosed car.  Mind you a lot of small htachbacks
these days are plastic-nosed so they just boing back..!!
PhilN

For the Rangie I have a 12 ton shackle welded onto a bar which fits in the
receiver and extends about 12" back.
Actual purpose is recovery point, but its a good deterrent. It also scares
the s*&t out of the guys in the office trailer next to my parking spot if I
back up too far and hit the trailer :-)

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:03:01 -0400
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a quote
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I think you are going to far in assuming that those drivers can actually
some thing with all those difficult
word in a sentence that long.
John and Muddy

> 
> Now I just use it as a mantra...
> 
>   Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by angry
> sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to think
> people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want a
> look.  Who knows.
> 
> Scooter
> ______________________________________________

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:18:03 -0800 (PST)
From: DaveB <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] cart guards
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> My Toyota had a 3 piece shopping cart deflector. 

my land rover IS a 1-piece shopping cart deflector.

yup
dave

=====
DaveB
Arlington, VA
"GreenHELL" '72 SIII 88"- "Unstoppable"
"Red Square" '60 SII 109"- "Purrs like a (leaky) kitten" 

Please ignore the following words from our sponsor:
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--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:21:19 -0800 (PST)
From: DaveB <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- apsilon <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Hey! I resemble that remark.
> http://www.apsilon.com/matt/images/lr/left34.jpg
> 
> To be honest it was on there when I bought it a bit over a month ago.
> It
> appears very solid and therefore heavy.

you could probably drive through the wall of your local ARB supplier.
then pick whatever you want!

yup
dave

=====
DaveB
Arlington, VA
"GreenHELL" '72 SIII 88"- "Unstoppable"
"Red Square" '60 SII 109"- "Purrs like a (leaky) kitten" 

Please ignore the following words from our sponsor:
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:24:46 -0800 (PST)
From: DaveB <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Nick Danger <[email-masked]> wrote:
 its handy for climbing/leaning on when working on the engine
> bay without having to lean on the wings that Im always afraid is
> going to leave a permanent scratch... 

hey! this list is for land rovers! "scratched" and "exterior finish"
are synonymous. got it?

dave

=====
DaveB
Arlington, VA
"GreenHELL" '72 SIII 88"- "Unstoppable"
"Red Square" '60 SII 109"- "Purrs like a (leaky) kitten" 

Please ignore the following words from our sponsor:
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
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--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Lonn & Rhonda" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Series power steering?
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:48:43 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Check out my 109 hybrid on TAW's site.  There are some good pictures
of the Scout II power steering conversion.

The direct link to my truck is:

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/lonn_V8.htm

Lonn

--__--__--

Message: 18
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:59:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Derek Pommerenck <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: Series power steering?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If any one wants it, I have a Word document on
research behind the Scout power steering conversion
with pictures.  After my research, I opted for a
Defender manual steering military column and box setup
for two reasons.  There is a large safety issue of the
Scout rig job if not performed by a professional, and
that professional is accepting a little bit of
liability should the system fail at the wrong moment. 
The Defender column and box that I got is less
expensive although very new since it requires way less
fabrication to install.  These military columns are
available from Big Sky Rover in Montana for about $900
complete.  If gives way better manual steering that
the original series setup, and close to power steering
feel without sucking any horsepower from your already
under powered diesel.

Email me offline for the word doc. and questions.

=====
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
DEREK A. POMMERENCK
Captain, US Army Corps of Engineers
HQ, C/554th Engineer Battalion
17055 Leaf Lane
Saint Robert, MO 65584
Home: (573) 336-8469 www.difflock4x4.com/dpom/index.html
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

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Message: 19
Subject: Re: [lro] Series power steering?
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 01 06:38:30 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>What is this Scout thingy which everyone seems to be talking about -
>anyone have pics of this installation on the web anywhere. I'd like to
>hear/read/see more...

It is a simple straight forward power steering conversion for left hand 
drive series Land Rovers.

You keep your steering wheel and upper steering column down to where it 
attaches to the box.  You loose the stock LR steering box, the relay that 
goes through the front frame and the steering rod that goes along top of 
the frame between the two.

Where the upper steering column ends, a bracket is added that uses all 
existing bolt holes to hold the bottom of the steering column in place.

A Scout II power steering box is attached to the frame with some steel 
plates for added frame strength just in front of the front suspension 
bump stop.

A standard sliding intermediate steering column is added between the 
steering box and the Land Rover upper steering column.

You locate or modify a pitman arm that is around 7-1/2 inches long  and 
lengthen your drag link a little.

Come up with a LR military double belt crank pulley.

Weld a couple bolts upside down to a couple head bolts to hold a power 
steering pump bracket.

Modify or fabricate a power steering pump bracket then mount a Saginaw 
"caned ham" style steering pump.  Plumb it & drive.

I've been driving aound in my 109 with power steering since summer 1999 
and love it.

The oldest conversion I know was to an 88 in 1989 and it has been trouble 
free the entire time.

There are at least a dozen and I suspect more series Land Rovers in North 
America that have this conversion.

I have pictures from 3 conversions, including mine and a lot more detail 
in my web site.

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/PowerSteering.htm

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:10:06 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] No bull
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]> wrote:

>How many of these supposed "bull" bars are just that BULL. The unit I have
>on the Rangie (Origin unknown) is so flimsy it wouldn't stop an anaemic
>sheep let alone a bull.... The North American term "brush bar" is far
>more appropriate. Most are decorative only and propably never see anything
>worse than a shopping cart. Opinions?

Some units, such as the front end bar made by Safari Gard, are indeed
'structural'.  On the Disco, I use the outer corner of it as a hi-lift jack
point.  Indeed, any part of it could be used as a lift or winch point,
though there is a purpose-built winch point included in the design.

I can attest to it robustness.  I was sideswiped by a teenage driver who
had her liscense all of one week.  No real damage to the Disco bodywork,
but she did hit the corner of the brushbar from behind.  Opener her POS
Chevy up from stem to stern like a can of beans.  (An under 5 mph crash
might have totalled the car....)  A similar directional incident with the
Series III's bumper resulted in it being bent forward.

I have since modified the S III's bumper to be a bit more robust.  Simply
placed the largest angle iron I could fit ('V' side down) inside the bumper
and welded it top and bottom in about a dozen places.  Then had the whole
thing hot-dipped.

Cheers

--__--__--

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:10:07 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Owl's well that ends well....
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Once driving home in a non Land Rover in England at night on a quiet country
>road, I saw a blob sitting in the middle of the narrow lane. As I
approached I
>slowed and saw that it was an owl.... I left it to it and made a mental
note not to pick up
>strange night creatures with long wings and sharp claws again unless they are
>dead.

Mike McCaig's father reported a similar incident.  While driving home, he
hit an owl and stopped to check it out.  It was still as a stone in the
middle of the road.  Thoroughly upset by his 'killing' the owl, but not
wanting such an educational experience to pass, the gathered it up in a
cardboard box and put it in the trunk (boot).  When he gets home, he
carries the box into the house calls the family together to show them the
this beautiful, albeit dead, owl.  Upon opening the box, an ENRAGED owl
flies out talons first and proceeds to wreck the family room until someone
opened the sliding door....

--__--__--

Message: 22
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:10:05 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] No bull
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]> wrote:

>How many of these supposed "bull" bars are just that BULL. The unit I have
>on the Rangie (Origin unknown) is so flimsy it wouldn't stop an anaemic
>sheep let alone a bull.... The North American term "brush bar" is far
>more appropriate. Most are decorative only and propably never see anything
>worse than a shopping cart. Opinions?

Some units, such as the front end bar made by Safari Gard, are indeed
'structural'.  On the Disco, I use the outer corner of it as a hi-lift jack
point.  Indeed, any part of it could be used as a lift or winch point,
though there is a purpose-built winch point included in the design.

I can attest to it robustness.  I was sideswiped by a teenage driver who
had her liscense all of one week.  No real damage to the Disco bodywork,
but she did hit the corner of the brushbar from behind.  Opener her POS
Chevy up from stem to stern like a can of beans.  (An under 5 mph crash
might have totalled the car....)  A similar directional incident with the
Series III's bumper resulted in it being bent forward.

I have since modified the S III's bumper to be a bit more robust.  Simply
placed the largest angle iron I could fit ('V' side down) inside the bumper
and welded it top and bottom in about a dozen places.  Then had the whole
thing hot-dipped.

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:00:56 -0800
Subject: Re: [lro] Owl's well that ends well....
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

While driving from Napa to Half Moon Bay last week on Thanksgiving, I saw a
large feathered blob hit the roof of a truck and fall to the road in front
of our truck.  I think it was Skyline just South of Fort Funston, but I'm
not from Northern California and don't know the area very well.

Getting out to see what was blocking the roadway, I was surprised to find
TWO hawks.  They were mating and obviously didn't do an altitude check
before they latched together.  Anyway, I was sure they were dead as they
panel truck was doing about 60MPH.  A F150 also stopped and the two guys in
that truck were trying to get the birds off the road while I called 911 for
Fish and Game as both birds were tagged.  When the guys got a jacket to drag
them to the shoulder with, one started to move.  They are damn fierce
looking buggers when they want to be!

Long story short, we covered them with a jacket to keep them calm.  A Daly
City (spelling?) PD officer came over to take control while waiting for Fish
and Game and we went off to finish getting my wifes mother back to her
house.  About 7PM, Fish and Game called to say that both birds were fine and
would be released after they were observed for a while.  Nice ending to a
long afternoon.  I was pretty surprised that a Fish and Game officer took
the time to track my cell # down to call me back and let us know how it
ended.

Jeff

on 11/29/01 7:10 AM, A. P. (Sandy) Grice at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
>> Once driving home in a non Land Rover in England at night on a quiet country
>> road, I saw a blob sitting in the middle of the narrow lane. As I
> approached I
>> slowed and saw that it was an owl.... I left it to it and made a mental
> note not to pick up
>> strange night creatures with long wings and sharp claws again unless they are
>> dead.
> 
> Mike McCaig's father reported a similar incident.  While driving home, he
> hit an owl and stopped to check it out.  It was still as a stone in the
> middle of the road.  Thoroughly upset by his 'killing' the owl, but not
> wanting such an educational experience to pass, the gathered it up in a
> cardboard box and put it in the trunk (boot).  When he gets home, he
> carries the box into the house calls the family together to show them the
> this beautiful, albeit dead, owl.  Upon opening the box, an ENRAGED owl
> flies out talons first and proceeds to wreck the family room until someone
> opened the sliding door....
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] cart guards
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 07:57:20 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> --- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > 
> > My Toyota had a 3 piece shopping cart deflector. 
> 
> my land rover IS a 1-piece shopping cart deflector.
> 
I was gonna say that... :-(
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 25
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:02:25 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>_______________________________________
>Now there's an idea. Tailgater bars. Substantial steel structure with plenty
>of sharp bits sticking out. Radiator destroyer disguised as tow ball, etc
>_______________________________________________

Well, if you've got a tire mount on the rear door it rather looks like 
that. It's right at eye level, too. I personally don't worry about 
tailgaters in the Rover as anything this side of an 18-wheel can out-brake me.

Keith

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:57:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [lro] British Tools
From: Brian Horner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yeah, I see your point, but I guess I was thinking that for the long haul,
using the correct fitting wrench would only lengthen the life of the bolts
on the underside of my Series III.  I dunno -I am probably just being
nitpicky and falling helplessly into the clever clutches of the Tool
Manufacturers marketing ploy to prey on my insecurities about stripping
bolts.  ;o)

Thanks for the input everyone.

Brian "Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosey!" Horner

On 11/29/01 3:53 AM, "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]> wrote:
<snip> 
> Hmmmmm....
> 
> More to the point, Brian - unless you are restoring a
> Series 1 or a very early II your need for Whitworth
> will be minimal. FOr years (until the above purchase
> last year) I made do using metric sockets as fill-in
> wherever needed. FOr example, the propshaft to rear
> drive flange bolts yield nicely to 14MM....
<snip>

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org

--__--__--

Message: 27
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:08:57 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] British Tools
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Yeah, I see your point, but I guess I was thinking that for the long haul,
>using the correct fitting wrench would only lengthen the life of the bolts
>on the underside of my Series III.

Spend the money on a good set of Metric sockets that grip the flats, 
not the corners (FACOM for one--but I think most of the major 
companies now use this "technology") and don't lose any sleep over 
damaging the bolts. In the example Al provided, 14mm is 
indistinguishable from the real deal anyhow. Some folks even swear by 
Metrinch for this reason.

RoverOn!

jab
-- 
==
  Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Ridgefield, CT
                   [email-masked]
                    ==================
I'm looking for a smart woman in a real short skirt...
			--Jimmy Buffett, Smart Woman
...with her own set of SnapOn tools,
and the know-how to use them!
			   --Jeff Berg, Broken Rover Blues

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:21:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a quote
From: Brian Horner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I have always wanted to make a bumper sticker that reads:

"Slow motion test in progress, please accelerate then pass."

Or

"Will SLOW for tailgaters"

Of course, it has been recommended to properly repel these people that you
need to strap bits and pieces of broken Honda to your rear bumper and
constantly look over your shoulder grinning while slightly tapping your
brakes.  

Brian

On 11/29/01 6:03 AM, "John Cranfield" <[email-masked]>
wrote:

> Now I just use it as a mantra...
> 
>   Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by angry
> sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to think
> people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want a
> look.  Who knows.
> 
> Scooter

------------------------
http://www.roverme.org

--__--__--

Message: 29
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:02:50 -0700
From: Jeremy <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a quote
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Another fun one many of my nerd friends like to use, is put a switch/button
on the dashboard to activate the tail lights (without having to touch the
brakes)

Oh, that and they mounted a big squirt gun aiming out the back too..

-j

Brian Horner enlightened recipients with the following on 29Nov2001:
> 
> I have always wanted to make a bumper sticker that reads:
> 
> "Slow motion test in progress, please accelerate then pass."
> 
> Or
> 
> "Will SLOW for tailgaters"
> 
> Of course, it has been recommended to properly repel these people that you
> need to strap bits and pieces of broken Honda to your rear bumper and
> constantly look over your shoulder grinning while slightly tapping your
> brakes.  
> 
> Brian
> 
> On 11/29/01 6:03 AM, "John Cranfield" <[email-masked]>
> wrote:
> 
> > Now I just use it as a mantra...
> > 
> >   Maybe if I put this on my tailgate there will be less tailgateing by angry
> > sounding Hondas.  They'll think I'm a little nuts.  I'm starting to think
> > people tailgate me 'cause they don't know what I'm driving and just want a
> > look.  Who knows.
> > 
> > Scooter
> 
> ------------------------
> http://www.roverme.org
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

-- 
Jeremy <heffner at darkness dot net>
1994 Disco NAS "RTFM"

--__--__--

Message: 30
Date: 29 Nov 2001 13:45:55 -0600
From: george kase <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] EZ out...NOT!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Here's a sad story you've all heard before, but with a twist.
It has a happy ending. I was doing brakes all around on my Rover
and of course since I was doing brakes, I felt I might as well pull
the hubs off and re-pack the bearings and put in new seals...
Well, three wheels came off, no problem. On the fourth, the hub bolts that hold on the driving member and the hub wouldn't
budge. finally got three out but broke the remaining two. Was able to get a stud remover onto one of them since just the head broke off therefore exposing about an inch of bolt shaft. Highly recommended tool...just $12 bucks from Pep Boys. But the other bolt broke off below the surface of the hub. Here comes the stupid part of the story. I decided to use an EZ Out. I managed to actually drill a hole through the center of the bolt...then like an idiot I pounded in the EZ Not into the hole and after much muscle was expended broke it off as well. Nothing to grab onto. Well, after a lot of research and stopping by a couple of local machine and welding shops I was facing buying a new hub and all attendant parts. Fortunately, I remembered driving by a place called Metal Disintigrator, Inc. I had nothing to lose. Drove over there, showed the guy my hub and he said no problem, come back tomorrow with $65 bucks. I picked it up this morning and it's like a miracle. No bolt, no EZ Out.!
..just threads. He also suggested next time to just come when the bolt breaks and to not use the EZ Out since that made it tougher for them (surprise!). Amazing. Just in case anyone else ever busts a bolt in something expensive or un-replacable... you can now rest easy cause there is hope.
George Kase
Chicago

--__--__--

Message: 31
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:46:05 -0800
Subject: [lro] Bullbars (was fauna fenders)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fauna fenders
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>In more than 30 years of Land Roving I have yet to find that I needed 
any front protection.  Every other bit has had at least one impact 
over the years but the never the front except when I so intended.

The only front protection I've ever felt I needed was when I would 
travel to the Yukon back in the 1970s and I'd ship my SIII over 
from Hawaii for the trips.  Back then, all the roads in the 
Yukon were unpaved, including the Alcan, and windshields, 
headlights, and radiators were at considerable risk from stones 
thrown up by passing cars and trucks.  I had a bar-steel frame 
made up that mounted on top of the bumper and extended the 
full width and height of the front of the wings and grill.  I 
covered it with hardware cloth with a removable panel 
so we could access the capstan winch.  Thanks to this, 
we never suffered any damage to the front bodywork, 
lights, grill, or radiator during any of the trips.  The
frame weighs about sixty pounds, so I only mount it 
when I think it might be necessary (having a lot of 
weight out in front of the front leaf springs causes them 
to sag prematurely).

The problem with most of the bull bars sold today is 
they will usually cause more damage to the vehicle 
in a collision than if they weren't there at all.  This is 
because they are mounted to the front of the frame at 
the lower edge of the bullbar assembly.  In a collision, the 
bull bar is pushed backwards, and with nothing bracing the 
bar but the lower mounts, there is tremendous leverage 
exerted on the front of the frame, with the result that even in 
a relatively minor collision, the front of the frame is bent up.
  
I am acquainted with the owner of probably the best body 
shop in the Seattle area.  His shop works only on BMWs, 
Mercedes, and Porsches, but recently they have expanded 
to include Land Rovers as there are so many of them in the 
area.  He has told me he's seen a lot of bent frames on Range 
Rovers and Discoveries as a result of the bullbar being 
bent back in a "fender bender" and bending the frame.  Had 
the bullbar not been there, he says, the damage would have 
been confined to body panels and possibly the radiator.  
With the small clearance between most bullbars and the 
bodywork behind them, the body is often damaged 
anyway, but now the frame has to be laser-aligned 
and straightened, a very expensive job because many of 
the forward components of the vehicle have to be 
removed to do this.  So what might have been a
$3,000 repair is now a $10,000 repair, and he tells 
me there are times when this has been enough for 
the insurance companies to total the vehicle, even 
though the actual accident was relatively minor.

Bull bars got their inspiration in part from the so-called 
"roo bars" in Australia, which are usually tubular frames 
mounted to the front of cars and trucks to minimize 
body damage in a collision with a kangaroo, which 
apparently happens quite frequently in those areas 
populated by the animals.  But if you look at pictures 
of real roo bars, you will see they are rather different 
than the macho looking but ineffective bullbars offered 
on most SUVs and pickups in the US.  A real roo 
bar is a very ugly device, because in addition to the 
attachment hardware at the bottom of the assembly, 
there are also braces that run from the top or middle 
of the ends of the bar back to attach to the frame 
several feet aft of the front end.  This sometimes involves 
cutting away some of the bodywork so the braces can 
be solidly attached to the frame.  The purpose of the braces is 
to prevent the bar from being shoved back in a 
collision, which eliminates the risk of the bar damaging 
the bodywork, grill, and radiator behind it, AND 
eliminates the leverage on the bar assembly that could 
bend up the front of the frame.

While I am not familiar with all the bullbar styles 
offered in the US, all the ones I've seen on Range 
Rovers, Discoveries, Land Cruisers, Jeep Grand 
Cherokees, etc. are only attached at the bottom 
with no bracing angled backwards to spread the 
impact load and keep the frame from bending up.  
As such, all these bullbars are really good for, 
despite their rough, tough appearance, is to hold 
auxiliary lights or to support 
screen across the front to prevent stone damage, 
the same as the simple bar-steel frame I had made 
for my SIII.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 32
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:58:39 -0800
Subject: [lro] Ground Force (was Junkyard wars)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Junkyard mega-wars
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:09:57 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin wrote: >>> Ground Force is led by
>> Allen Titchmarsh (sp?), an excellent and renown UK gardening
> expert with a great live-camera personality.  He and the three
> other members of his team...

>Alan has only two other helpers - or are you counting the female (Charlie
Dimmock) presenter's er... other attributes... which make the programme
must-see in the UK for blokes who aren't the least interested in gardening?

Actually, Allen has three helpers.  Charlie Dimmock, Tommy Walsh, and 
the fellow with the ponytail who sounds Irish and usually works with 
Tommy on the gardens.  While not an original member of the team, he 
has become a regular and is listed in the credits as part of the team now.  
Can't remember his name, though.....

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:01:58 -0800
Subject: [lro] Re: Not urban legend
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Not urban legend
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I left it to it and made a mental note not to pick up
strange night creatures with long wings and sharp claws again unless they
are
dead.

It was probably a message owl, and was simply taking a break during 
a long flight.  It was probably grateful for the ride, but then got upset 
when it realized you were taking it the wrong way.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 34
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:59:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] cart guards
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Hope Peter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> > --- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > My Toyota had a 3 piece shopping cart deflector.
> 
> > 
> > my land rover IS a 1-piece shopping cart
> deflector.

And as we all know one piece of a shopping cart (the
bottom wheeled bit) is a lovely rolling engine
stand....especially after you run it over.

8*)

       aj"Not for me - I use furniture dollys...."r

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

--__--__--

Message: 35
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:00:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] no LR content, but looking for a brush bar(?)
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Keith Tanner <[email-masked]> wrote:

>  I personally
> don't worry about 
> tailgaters in the Rover as anything this side of an
> 18-wheel can out-brake me.

And anything the other side of the 18-wheeler is gonna
get run over anyway.....8*)

                 ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

--__--__--

Message: 36
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:57:36 -0500
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] British spanners
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Brian, the BSF and Whitworth spanners are interchangeable, in the same
way as UNC and UNF.  The BA series are smaller than 1/4 inch dia, the
equivalent of the Unified number series and they need special spanners.
  The Mterich series are supposed to cater to the Unified, Whitworth and
metric sizes and could therefore be a good starting point if you do not
have any spanners in the first place

Regards from Western New York State

  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 37
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 01 17:05:22 -0800
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>, " D90 list" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Fwd: Re: Safety Item
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I thiought people who own aluminum & steel vehicles might find this of 
interest.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Robertson" <[email-masked]>
To: "Toyota 4X4 list" <[email-masked]>; "Triumph List"
<[email-masked]>; "Crx-Canada" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 3:07 PM
Subject: Fwd: Safety Item

| > SAFETY ITEM

| >   A few days earlier he had ground the heads of
| about >12 aluminium pop rivets. Finely divided
| aluminium >mixed with finely divided ferrous oxide
| produces a >compound called thermite. Thermite is used
| to fill >incendiary bombs and commercially to weld
| large steel >items, i.e. railway rails into continuous
| lengths.   >It burns at approximately 35000C (63000F)
| hence the >extensive burns from such a short exposure
| time.  The >end result was, excluding my fingers; I
| suffered deep >second-degree burns to about 60% of my
| left hand and >50% of my right hand.
| >
| >  In light of my experience, I feel there should be a
| >very strong warning passed on to the readership as to
| >the dangers posed by grinding steel after having
| >ground aluminium, unless the machine is thoroughly
| >cleaned of all aluminium dust.  The potential is
| >certainly there for even more serious injury.
|
| =====
| Bruce Robertson "MrMomo"
| 1990 Rio Red Honda CRX DX
| 1966 B.R.Green Triumph TR4A
| 1991 Custom F350 Dually flatbed
| Age unknown: Highly modified John Deere tractor.
| "If more is better, too much is never enough"-ec

----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 38
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:45:16 +0100
From: Par Leijonhufvud <[email-masked]>
To: LRO list <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fwd: Re: Safety Item
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]> [2001.11.30] wrote:
> 
> I thiought people who own aluminum & steel vehicles might find this of 
> interest.

Definitely worth keeping in mind. Aluminum *burns*, as the US Army have
discovered.

> | lengths.   >It burns at approximately 35000C (63000F)

Impressive temps. I mean, even main sequence stars have surface temps of
only about 4-6000 C. At least we are not talking stellar core temperatures;
I would not want _that_ in my workshop.

/Par 
 thermite is closer to 2-2500 C, IIRC

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                                      [email-masked]
Try power cycling it again... maybe you didn't do it right the first time.

--__--__--

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