Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #163 - 6 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 03:01:02 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Re: 3M marine sealant (Peter Ogilvie)
   2. Going to England soon ([email-masked])
   3. Have a good one! (Jim Hall)
   4. Re: 109 to 88 and racing around the desk. (Dick Joltes)
   5. Tires (was 4X4 ideology) (C. Marin Faure)
   6. more heat: The results (Jim Hall)

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Message: 1
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: 3M marine sealant
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:26:30 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Lifecaulk is Polysulfide, whatever that is.  Believe 3M made a similar 
sealant called 101.  It remains flexible can be painted and is good for 
filling voids and bedding hardware.  It really sticks and parts bedded in it 
can only be removed by cutting the caulk with a thin wire or strong steady 
pressure over a longish period of time.  If you try brute force, you will 
delaminate the substrate, be it wood or paint.  As an example, to remove the 
cockpit sole on my boat, had to use a scissors jack.  Put enough tension on 
the sole so it had a noticable hump and left it for a day before it finally 
partially separated. Was able to get it the rest of the way off by inserting 
a knife and working it around, cutting the sealant.  I really like Life 
Caulk as a sealant for anything that you don't want to leak, ever, and 
probably won't ever want to remove.

LifeCaulk used to make something called liquid life caulk.  It seemed to be 
a thinned version of the original that flowed under the force of gravity.  
Great for fixing leaks that you couldn't pinpoint exactly as it would 
migrate into all the pukas.  Really nifty stuff for specific uses where you 
had gravity working for you and something to contain the caulk, like a 
gutter, as it would flow all over the place on a flat surface and took a 
long time to set up.  If this stuff is still available, it might work for 
you.

LifeCaulk is okay for sealing teak decks but its not the greatest as it 
doesn't like oil.  Will work okay if you thoroughly clean the seams with 
acetone, but not my first choice for this purpose.  There is a special made 
single part sealant for teak decks that is very pricey but supposed to stick 
longer than the wood will be around.  There are also two part sealants that 
work well but are a pain to use as you have to mix them and then insert into 
a caulk tube and apply.  You can buy two part caulks that will work to seal 
fuel tanks, by the way.  Probably could find it in an aircraft supply store 
as its commonly used to seal aircraft wing tanks.

One caution on LifeCaulk, it may cause some plastics to crack and 
disintegrate.  Check with manufacturer before using on things like plastic 
opening ports.

Used Geo Cell on my house.  It quit sealing after a few years.  Very 
clingy/sticky when applying so looked like it would be a good sealant.  
Didn't hold up in the long run, however.  Notice the hardware store that 
used to sell it, no longer does.  Maybe I wasn't the only one that had 
problems with the stuff.

Silicone seal has a very weak bond on things it's applied to.  It also 
shrinks as it sets.  I would only use silicone as a gasket type seal.  
Tighten it down partially, wait for the sillycone to dry, and then tighten 
it down fully.  Had to remove every piece of hardware and fixtures on a boat 
because the factory bedded it in Sillycone.  Under the working of the hull, 
the sillycone bond with the pieces broke and it leaked horribly.  Rebedded 
everything in LifeCaulk and its still going strong after 30 years.

Masking, as suggested by Marin, is a really neat trick when applying the 
really sticky sealants like LifeCaulk.  The stuff grabs onto everything in 
the universe like your fingers, your hair, gets on the soles of your shoes, 
etc.  Masking gives you a really neat caulk line and makes clean up easy.  
Other wise its really messy stuff to work with, even if you're very careful. 
  Have lots of paint thinner, acetone, or some other suitable solvent and 
lots of paper towels around to get the stuff off what you don't want it on.

For stuff you might have to remove, butyl rubber is a good sealant.  It 
sticks, but not as well as Polysulfide, so its fairly easy to break the bond 
when you want to separate things like the floor boards.  It remains flexible 
so is a good sealant where vibration and flexing is expected.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Message: 2
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:05:02 EST
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Going to England soon
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Three things have conspired to cause me to be in the UK in a week or so. 
British Airways rates are low, my mother has some time off, and she's cashed 
inb&something, a non performing mutual fund or something. So, off we go! I 
don't have the vacation time, I'll just take a week off, and fulfill my 
filial duty. Wish my wife was going. Anyway, I need to know which LROs and 
RROs over there might remember me from when I was more active on the list and 
might not mind showing me around. Don't have any plans except land at 
Gatwick, and spend first night (Saturday) in or near Hammersmith. Interested 
in Speakers Corner, Charles Spurgeon, and LRs and RRs, among others. Someone 
mentioned a show of Shakespeare in ninety minutes (?). Mom might be 
interested in finding a mini to bring back. I'd like to see a nice selection 
of lightweights, and rummage for some parts we don't often get over here.  A 
101 ambulance to drool over would be nice, too. Problem is, we'll only be 
there a week.
Please reply off list. Thanks!!
Cheers!
John Dillingham
Vintage Rover Service
Canton, Georgia
85 Range Rover Vogue 5speed
68 SWB series IIa 
72 SWB series III

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:04:03 -0700
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: "lro" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Have a good one!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I wish everyone (who celebrates it) a very happy and Roverly 
Thanksgiving. Everyone else, have a good day at work, hehe.
-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:47:14 -0500
From: Dick Joltes <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] 109 to 88 and racing around the desk.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Scott Wickham wrote:

[Scooter spots a 'croc hunter' truck]

>  I almost bought it for myself for Christmas, still might. 
> Might be fun to terrorize the cats at DJ's place for the club
> Christmas party ;)

No worries, but you should bring your own Band-Aids and antiseptic
unless you want Kris applying rubbing alcohol and surgical staples
to the wounds! 8-/

LR content:  Last week I fitted Smudger with a new Weber ICH; the
thrice-damned Zenith now reposes on the workbench where it belongs.
Amazingly simple swap, runs a LOT cleaner.  At some point I may try
the EasyBake Oven method of annealing the Zenith body just to see 
how well it works.  Otherwise it's a paperweight.

dj
1974 SIII Airportable, "Smudger"

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:01:33 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Tires (was 4X4 ideology)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:33:51 -0700
Subject: [lro] 4x4 ideology (was Cool 101)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>The more I drive my LR the more I see how much it can do more or
less stock, and how the things I do wouldn't even be attempted by most
'serious' 4x4's around here.  In the LR most of it isn't all that serious
because it has a fairly low CG.  The bigger and 'badder' these guys' trucks
are the worse they do in anything but mud.

The other thing to remember is that the larger in diameter your tires are,
the higher (or is it lower?) your effective gearing is.  Putting monster
tires on a vehicle may do a nice job of increasing the ground clearance,
but if you do nothing to the gearing, you may not have the power to crawl
over some of the really bad stuff because the tall tires have negated your
ability to gear way down.  Putting huge tires on something may look cool
(to some people), but it really doesn't do all that much.  Whether or not
you hit something is due more to the distance between the ground and your
differential or axle, not the distance between the ground and the frame.
Raising the frame and body will reduce the chances of getting high
centered, but on a short wheelbase vehicle like the Land Rover (or Jeep or
Toyota FJ40) high centering is not the threat it is on a longer wheelbase
vehicle, and certainly not a threat that requires a three-foot body lift.
All that accomplishes is raising the center of gravity so you'll tip over
on even a moderate sidehill.

If you look at photos of Land Rovers and the like traveling through
roadless country back in the 1950s and 60s, you will see that they almost
always have thin, short tires.  This is in part because the industry hadn't
yet come up with big, fat, monster-mud tires, so they weren't an option.
But 4wds of all sorts went though some pretty tough country back then,
probably tougher than the average off-pavement driver will ever face today
due to the proliferation of good roads and the closure of much of the
world's land to the general public.  And they did it with what today would
be considered wussy wheels and tires.  But they were narrow and would cut
down to the firmer ground underneath, they didn't skitter and slip on
sidehills, and they allowed the drivers to pick a more precise track
through obstacle-strewn ground.  Plus they were easier to change if they
were punctured.  And they're more fuel efficient, although I doubt that was
a consideration back in the days of $0.15 a gallon fuel.

A fat, high floatation tire is an advantage in deep mud and soft sand, no
argument.  But unless those are the conditions you face regularly, a
narrower tire will serve you better.  As for a taller tire, it will give
you a tad more ground clearance, but it will also reduce the effectiveness
of your gearing if that's an issue where you drive.  I have always run 7X15
tires on my Series III, and I've driven on some roads that were hard
pressed to be called that at the time.  While some of it was deep mud, most
of my off-pavement driving has been on logging and mining trails, old
railroad rights-of-way, and mountain roads in Hawaii, Washingon, British
Columbia, and the Yukon.  For that sort of thing- dirt, gravel, loose rock,
sidehill roads, medium mud, branch-littered tracks, and snow- my little
narrow tires have been ideal.  In first gear, low range, I can walk faster
than the vehicle will idle along, and I get 20 mpg on the highway.  In
first low, the engine will lug down to where you can practically hear each
cylinder firing, but it (almost) never stalls from the effort of trying to
push too-tall gearing up a slope or over a rock.  So I for one have no
complaints about the non-macho wheel and tire sizes of a stock Series Land
Rover.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:21:02 -0700
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] more heat: The results
Reply-To: [email-masked]

For the test, I brought the Rover up to operating temperature. I put the
pyrometer in front of the core where the most air comes out, about 1/4"
from the surface. I then turned it on and took the max reading, which 
was 142 degrees. I then turned it off, painted that half of the core 
with flat black paint on the front surface only since I didn't want to
remove to get the back. I used the type they sell for wood stoves btw. I
then repeated the test and got 151 degrees. I repeated the test on the
other half, which has slower air flow since it is further from the 
blower opening, and got 155 degrees for the bare core. After painting, I
got a reading of 160 degrees. So as far as I can tell, it does put out
a little more heat with paint. 

Tim Czajka wrote:
> 
> Jim Hall wrote:
> >So my question is will a black heater core radiate
> >noticeably more heat than a bare one?
> >
> I have read that paint will actually act as an insulator
> and thus keep some heat from radiating out - albeit a
> very thin insulator.  So will some other coatings and
> platings.  For example, I read that one should stay away
> from pretty chrome automatic tranny oil pans because they
> do not dissipate heat as well as stock pans.
> 
> That said, when I had a shop re-core my radiator a few
> years back they promptly coated it in black paint.  The
> owner was unconcerned with heat transfer issues and my
> radiator has worked fine.  I would say that if paint
> does reduce heat transfer it is not by an amount that
> will usually compromise the cooling/heating system.

-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

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End of LRO Digest