Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #156 - 41 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 03:02:26 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)
   2. Re: NY Freelander siting (Alan J. Richer)
   3. Re: NY Freelander siting (Paul)
   4. RE: NY Freelander siting (Easton Trevor A)
   5. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)
   6. Freelander Resentment (Garrick Olsen)
   7. Bellhsng crossmember...can I lose it? (Bill Adams)
   8. Gas Tank Leaking (Nick Danger)
   9. RE: Gas Tank Leaking (Easton Trevor A)
  10. newbie and lightweight Q (Conrad)
  11. Re: Freelander Resentment (Alan J. Richer)
  12. Re: Bellhsng crossmember...can I lose it? (Alan J. Richer)
  13. Re: Freelander Resentment (Phil Norris)
  14. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)
  15. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Hope Peter)
  16. Land Rover font (Hope Peter)
  17. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Hope Peter)
  18. Hardtop leaks (Hope Peter)
  19. Re: Hardtop leaks (Bill Fishel)
  20. Re: NY Freelander siting (N Forbes)
  21. Re: Hardtop leaks (Alan J. Richer)
  22. Steptronic (was Freelander siting) (Faure, Marin)
  23. RE: Hardtop leaks (Easton Trevor A)
  24. OT [lro] Steptronic (was Freelander siting) (Phil Norris)
  25. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Harald Hansen)
  26. RE: Hardtop leaks (Alan J. Richer)
  27. GPS (Stude, Herman)
  28. Overdrive bearings (William L Leacock)
  29. Freelander (William L Leacock)
  30. RE: Gas Tank Leaking (Nick Danger)
  31. Re: GPS (Nick Danger)
  32. Re: Overdrive bearings (Alan J. Richer)
  33. RE: Gas Tank Leaking (Alan J. Richer)
  34. RE: Gas Tank Leaking (Easton Trevor A)
  35. Re: Freelander (Keith Tanner)
  36. Re: Gas Tank Leaking (Hope Peter)
  37. Re: Hardtop leaks (Hope Peter)
  38. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)
  39. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)
  40. Re: NY Freelander siting ([email-masked])
  41. Re: Paul Oxley's rover photos (Paul Oxley)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:25:18 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hope Peter wrote:

> Paul the other day you mentioned you were going to be posting some photos of
> a rover you have been building.
> Did I miss the list message with the link?

First page is up at http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/jacque/index.htm

more to follow.

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 05:18:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- [email-masked] wrote:

> 2. If you get down by the rear of the front wheels,
> you can see all the way 
> through the car at a height about midway through the
> car. Theres stuff above 
> and below, but a significant hole right thru. Maybe
> that's the new recovery 
> point?
> 

No - that's where the cable passes from the front to
the rear for rear recoveries. Land-Rover is selling a
set of fairleads to go in there, a la 101 belly winch.

Rovers North already has them in stock on special -
ask Lanny for them personally.

             ajr

=====
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--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:36:42 GMT
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In article <[email-masked]>,  wrote:
> I'll be interested in the various failure methods here. open, locked, and 
> broken glass.
>
There is the "explode into fragments while driving at speed on the motorway 
(freeway)" failure mode. This happened to a work colleague. It seems he had the 
heated rear screen on, and there was a "bad batch" of glass fitted on the early 
Freelander....

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] NY Freelander siting
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:41:43 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

There is also the open, close,open, I'll only stop when the ignition is off
mode.

-

In article <[email-masked]>,  wrote:
> I'll be interested in the various failure methods here. open, locked, and 
> broken glass.
>
There is the "explode into fragments while driving at speed on the motorway 
(freeway)" failure mode. This happened to a work colleague. It seems he had
the 
heated rear screen on, and there was a "bad batch" of glass fitted on the
early 
Freelander....

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:15:35 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Paul Oxley wrote:

> Hope Peter wrote:
> > Paul the other day you mentioned you were going to be posting some photos of
> > a rover you have been building.

Oh, and it's not my vehicle, neither have I done any work on it. It was
built by Brian and Alan Cotton.

For those who didn't catch the first mails, its a cut down Forward
Control chassis (ENV diffs, 900X16 tyres, etc) with a Rover V8 engine
through a S3 main box.

Cool toy! Cost under a thousand $ to build.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:10:18 -0600
Subject: [lro] Freelander Resentment
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I harbor feelings for the Freelander (formerly known as Freeloader, etc)

It somehow was made by Land Rover in a strange flash of consumer 
understanding.

It's nodamngood off road- would probably pop the windshield with a speedbump 
with the unibody.

It seems like an expensive version of the Subaru wagon.

With the
a.)'89 Saab showing its age and electrical reliability (contains some Lucas 
parts)
b.)the '95 JGC a thirsty pig at 14mpg and never off road 'cause it's the 
wife's and it's a unibody
c.)1960 SWB unethical to transport 18mos old and pregnant lady and un able 
to breech 55 mph. (cosmetic heater, requires ear protection at speed, etc.)
d.) 1979 Honda CX 500 custom without a child seat

It's actually the perfect car for me.

Which digest gets DIY questions?

-Rik
conflicted in Minnesota

_________________________________________________________________
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--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:12:31 -0500
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Organization: U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Bellhsng crossmember...can I lose it?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

How important to the structural integrity of the frame overall is the
crossmember under the bellhousing? Could it be moved rearward an inch or
two and still be OK? How much of the web can be removed? Just trying to
noodle out some issues with the V8.
-- 
Bill Adams
3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
International Broadcasting Bureau
Washington, D.C.
202-205-9638
[email-masked]

'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel
'81 GoldWing
'69 Le Sabre Convertible
'63 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: 15 Nov 2001 09:19:09 -0500
Subject: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I seem to have developed a leak in my gas tank. The problem is that I
cannot tell WHERE from. I had thought that it was from an overfilling
the other day maybe I had leaked a little but the other day I gave the
outside of the tank a good washdown from the hose and tightened all the
bits on the top, and the drain on the bottom. Seemed good. This morning
I discovered again the bottom of the tank has a thin film of gasoline. I
suspect the bottom drain plug but that sucker is in there tight! So
again I wiped the entire bottom down with a rag and I'll check when I
head home tonight if I can see anything else. This take DID have a small
seam leak sometime in the last two years. Last winter (november?) I
dropped the tank, used the POR tank seal and cleaned it up, worked great
and havent had a problem since, if that is any help in the mystery.

So, before I go too nuts, does anyone have any regular symptoms of a
tank that I should look for? And if it does prove to be the tank, anyone
have suggestions on new? (prep/install blah blah blah)  Im really hoping
it not be as I dont want to spend the cash. 

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:30:27 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Probably the bottom of the tank between the skid plate and tank proper. It's
likely rusted through from the outside and the rust has poked a small hole
in the POR 15. Did you take off the skid plate when you treated the tank
last time? This is where my tank went. I pulled off the skid plate, cut out
the bottom and soldered in a new piece then POR 15'd. I used the POR15 to
stick the skid plate back too.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Danger [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:19 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking

I seem to have developed a leak in my gas tank. The problem is that I
cannot tell WHERE from. I had thought that it was from an overfilling
the other day maybe I had leaked a little but the other day I gave the
outside of the tank a good washdown from the hose and tightened all the
bits on the top, and the drain on the bottom. Seemed good. This morning
I discovered again the bottom of the tank has a thin film of gasoline. I
suspect the bottom drain plug but that sucker is in there tight! So
again I wiped the entire bottom down with a rag and I'll check when I
head home tonight if I can see anything else. This take DID have a small
seam leak sometime in the last two years. Last winter (november?) I
dropped the tank, used the POR tank seal and cleaned it up, worked great
and havent had a problem since, if that is any help in the mystery.

So, before I go too nuts, does anyone have any regular symptoms of a
tank that I should look for? And if it does prove to be the tank, anyone
have suggestions on new? (prep/install blah blah blah)  Im really hoping
it not be as I dont want to spend the cash. 
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: Conrad <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:35:05 -0000
Subject: [lro] newbie and lightweight Q
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello everyone. I've recently got into Landys when I moved into a
smallholding in the UK. I now have an ex-hillyrally 90 that I use as a daily
car (its an evil orange beast), and a S3 lightweight and an S3 88 that I am
rebuilding. I have a million questions, but for now:

I am rebuilding the lightweight chassis, and replacing the rotten military
crossmember with a civilian one in the hope that I will be able to use the
PTO for useful stuff like running log saw etc (although I realised that this
might be a bit hopeful). anyway, the tub has (or had) come outriggers at the
front that bolted down to the petrol tank outriggers. they have completely
gone. The tub seems solid enough just bolted to the tabs at the rear and the
2 front points on the chassis rails. 

Am I making a mistake just cutting off whats left of the metal bits on the
front of the tub? Should I try to replace them somehow? If so, does anyone
have a pic of how they should look?

thanks, 

Conrad

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:42:10 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Freelander Resentment
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Garrick Olsen <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Which digest gets DIY questions?
> 
> -Rik
> conflicted in Minnesota
> 

Neither - it's disposable upon expiration of the
warranty....8*)

   ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
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http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:44:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Bellhsng crossmember...can I lose it?
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Bill Adams <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> How important to the structural integrity of the
> frame overall is the
> crossmember under the bellhousing? Could it be moved
> rearward an inch or
> two and still be OK? 

Don't see why not - as long as it is there and rigidly
attached it should be OK. Moving it backwards will
actually align it with the bulkhead outriggers a bit
better - may not flex as much. Not that it matters -
the whole thing's overdesigned anyway.

> How much of the web can be
> removed? 

What web - the strengthening ones between the
crossmember and the frame rails? DUnno.....

              ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
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http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Freelander Resentment
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:24:45 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've seen photos of them with a back wheel three feet in the air going
through an off-road course, doors opened _and_closed!!
P
-----Original Message-----
From: Garrick Olsen <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 November 2001 14:12
Subject: [lro] Freelander Resentment

>
>I harbor feelings for the Freelander (formerly known as Freeloader, etc)
>
>It somehow was made by Land Rover in a strange flash of consumer
>understanding.
>
>It's nodamngood off road- would probably pop the windshield with a
speedbump
>with the unibody.
>
>It seems like an expensive version of the Subaru wagon.
>
>With the
>a.)'89 Saab showing its age and electrical reliability (contains some Lucas
>parts)
>b.)the '95 JGC a thirsty pig at 14mpg and never off road 'cause it's the
>wife's and it's a unibody
>c.)1960 SWB unethical to transport 18mos old and pregnant lady and un able
>to breech 55 mph. (cosmetic heater, requires ear protection at speed, etc.)
>d.) 1979 Honda CX 500 custom without a child seat
>
>It's actually the perfect car for me.
>
>Which digest gets DIY questions?
>
>-Rik
>conflicted in Minnesota
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:13:14 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Paul Oxley wrote:

> > Hope Peter wrote:
> > > Paul the other day you mentioned you were going to be posting some photos of
> > > a rover you have been building.

More photos at http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/paul/index.htm
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:59:22 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> More photos at http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/paul/index.htm
> Paul Oxley
> AfricanAdrenalin.com

Thanks Paul.
seeesh, now I have to go out and buy a new keyboard......unless someone
knows a way to get drool outa the keys :-)

Like the roll cage rear struts.  Would love more details on the PTO hydralic
winch.  Photo of how the winch is mounted I mean.

Thanks again,
pete

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:00:53 -0800
Subject: [lro] Land Rover font
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I asked about this earlier this year and someone supplied the name.
Course i don't remember the name any longer and didn't bother saving my
fonts when I rebuilt the machine.  Redesigned AlohaRovers and need to get
that font again.
Thanks a bunch
pete

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:14:52 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I see that one of the 88's has what appears to be roof vents fitted into the
doors.  I have thought of doing the same thing to mine.  Damn things run
over 100$ each here int eh USA new though.
This was when she was back in hawaii of course.  I am busy now shoving rags
into every crack I can find.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:24:06 -0800
Subject: [lro] Hardtop leaks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well the AlohaRover has a new winter coat.  And what a f***ing PITA it was
to get it on.  Softtops don't much care how much the tub and bulkhead are
warped. grrrrr
Well it only took two days, but the top is on.  It looks like the top panel
is leaking.  There is a channel/ledge/lip that runs around the perimiter on
the interior of the panel.  it's like a rain lip, only on the inside.  This
lip is filling with water.  The underside of the roof panel is dry every
where I have checked, it's just this channel thats filling with water.  I
think it's seeping in from the exterior rain lip.  Is this 'common'?
I am thinking of running a bead of window caulk around the lip on the
outside.
Thanks
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Hardtop leaks
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:45:43 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter
I had the same problem with my hardtop. 
This is one of the replys I got:
****************************************************************************
Bill, et al,

The product I used is Geocel Proflex Roof Seal. 1-800-348-7615, in
Indiana.

It is crystal clear, stops leaks, super flexible, sticks to all
materials, paintable, applies to wet surfaces, prevents rust, won't
crack or crumble, and remains flexible... according to the
manufacturer.

It works... according to me.

It can be applied from -40 to 140 degrees F, but the sealant must be
warmed when below 30 degrees.  Good stuff.

Lonn
****************************************************************************

----------
> From: Hope Peter <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [lro] Hardtop leaks
> Date: Thursday, November 15, 2001 11:24 AM
> 
> 
> Well the AlohaRover has a new winter coat.  And what a f***ing PITA it was
> to get it on.  Softtops don't much care how much the tub and bulkhead are
> warped. grrrrr
> Well it only took two days, but the top is on.  It looks like the top panel
> is leaking.  There is a channel/ledge/lip that runs around the perimiter on
> the interior of the panel.  it's like a rain lip, only on the inside.  This
> lip is filling with water.  The underside of the roof panel is dry every
> where I have checked, it's just this channel thats filling with water.  I
> think it's seeping in from the exterior rain lip.  Is this 'common'?
> I am thinking of running a bead of window caulk around the lip on the
> outside.
> Thanks
> Pete
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:38:25 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Zack said:
2. If you get down by the rear of the front wheels, you can see all the
way
through the car at a height about midway through the car. Theres stuff
above
and below, but a significant hole right thru. Maybe that's the new
recovery
point?

Zack
==========================

Yeah, I noticed that too and couldn't believe it. I swear a small chid could 
crawl right through from one side to the other. Maybe it's to cut down on 
the effects of cross winds ;-)
Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
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--__--__--

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:55:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Hardtop leaks
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Cool....

Someone mentioned a brush-on sealer here recently that
would do the trick for you. When I had this problem
wit h Mr. Churchill's pickup roof I ended up putting a
fillet of RTV in the exterior gutter - basically laid
down a heavyish bead of RTV and used a shaped trowel
to push it onto the gutter bottom and up the sides a
bit.

Worked OK - but if you can find the brush-on sealer
I'd recommend it over this stuff.

                 ajr

--- Hope Peter <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Well the AlohaRover has a new winter coat.  And what
> a f***ing PITA it was
> to get it on.  Softtops don't much care how much the
> tub and bulkhead are
> warped. grrrrr
> Well it only took two days, but the top is on.  It
> looks like the top panel
> is leaking.  There is a channel/ledge/lip that runs
> around the perimiter on
> the interior of the panel.  it's like a rain lip,
> only on the inside.  This
> lip is filling with water.  The underside of the
> roof panel is dry every
> where I have checked, it's just this channel thats
> filling with water.  I
> think it's seeping in from the exterior rain lip. 
> Is this 'common'?
> I am thinking of running a bead of window caulk
> around the lip on the
> outside.
> Thanks
> Pete
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
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http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:34:33 -0800
Subject: [lro] Steptronic (was Freelander siting)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Scott Wickham" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:34 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>We took the HSE for a spin.  Love that Steptronic tranny.

The Steptronic is used in about six bazillion cars these days.  I just 
returned from a vacation in France and the UK.  In France, we rented 
a new Citroen C-5, their top line car with every piece of technology 
the company could think of.  It has the latest derivative of Citroen's
famous 
hydraulic (or is it pneumatic?) suspension.  The version used on the C-5 
is active, constantly changing the suspension characteristics to suit the
road 
and whatever the car happens to be doing at the moment.  It compensates for 
acceleration, deceleration, and side loads, and even adjusts the road stance

to minimize wind resistance.  Based on the C-5's ride and 
road handling, I would say Citroen's system is far superior to any other 
car suspension on the market.  I rode in friends' vehicles with conventional

suspensions on some of the same roads I drove the C-5 on.  Night and day 
difference.  It's the first new car I've driven in a long time that I think
I would buy 
if it was available in the US.  While it's styling is pretty typical
Euro-swoop, the C-5's 
technology seems to be on a par with or superior to the best from Mercedes,
BMW, Audi, etc.  
And like many of today's vehicles like Volvo and VW, the station wagon
(estate, brake) 
version of the C-5 is even better looking than the sedan (they don't make a
2-door C-5 to my 
knowledge).

I elected to rent one with a five speed, but they had them available with
the
Steptronic transmission, too.  VWs use them, as do a number of other 
manufacturers.  It's a nice transmission from a user point of view, although
I've 
had a couple of mechanic types tell me that they aren't as strong as earlier

generations of automatic transmissions.  But then with the Range Rover I
guess it 
doesn't matter, as I believe that, like all modern SUVs, there is a warning
in the 
front of the owner's manual stating that the warranty will be rendered void
if the owner 
drives the vehicle on an unpaved road......:-)

Regarding the Freelander, while I have heard that the vehicle has been
wildly successful 
in the UK and other parts of Europe, I was surprised while in the UK to see
so few of them.  
Granted, we were there only a few days, but we drove from London to
Middlewich (just 
south of Manchester) and up in the foothills of the Peak District, so we
were "exposed" 
to quite a bit of road traffic.  Not many Freelanders.  Loads of
Discoveries, of course, 
as there has been since 1989.  Lots of Range Rovers and Defenders, too.  I
know the 
numbers don't lie, so there must be a lot of Freelanders out there
somewhere.  On the 
other hand, the weather was a bit overcast and sprinkly, so perhaps there is
a warning 
in the Freelander's manual about voiding the warranty if the vehicle is
driven on anything 
but dry roads.  One of my co-workers has had a Jeep Cherokee and now a Grand

Cherokee since the early 1990s.  He has absolutely refused to take them out
of the garage if 
there was even a threat of snow (a rarity here in Seattle).  It's the one
vehicle he has that 
will get him around in snowy conditions, but he won't even open the garage
door on those
days.  As the Freelander's "off-road," or should I say "off-mall"
capabilities are pretty 
limited, perhaps that's why we didn't see many of them around the other
week. Some of the 
A-roads were pretty wet, so perhaps like my co-worker, most of England's
Freelander 
owners were electing to drive vehicles better suited to the wet road
conditions, like Reliant 
Robins or Vauxhall Astras.....:-)

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

--__--__--

Message: 23
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Hardtop leaks
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:50:51 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

RTV Urghh. The work of the devil.
Al, you disappoint me.

Trevor "keep your silly coons in the bathroom" Easton

 When I had this problem
wit h Mr. Churchill's pickup roof I ended up putting a
fillet of RTV in the exterior gutter - basically laid
down a heavyish bead of RTV and used a shaped trowel
to push it onto the gutter bottom and up the sides a
bit.

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: OT [lro] Steptronic (was Freelander siting)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:13:01 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The Citroens are hydro-pneumatic.  The hydraulics are vehicle-wide and do
the active levelling anti-roll height adjustment etc.  Each susp strut has
its own pneumatic "spring" on top, a sphere seperated top/bottom with a
diaphragm trapping a gas above and the fluid below.  I believe the
sport/luxury settings valved in/out extra springs to the system as required.
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/lancia/58/technical_school/suspension
/tech_suspension3.htm
The diaphragms do go, which requires a new sphere.  Easy to spot as the
strut goes solid and up on ride height. Tends to be progressive though....
Always wanted a DS Pallas or Safari...
http://www.snail602.fsnet.co.uk/PHOTOS/ds_photo_20.jpg
http://www.retromobile.com/legend.html
Amazing mile-munching family estate car.  One of the first 7 seater estates
in Europe too...
Not that I'm a fan or anything....!!
;~))
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Date: 15 November 2001 17:38
Subject: [lro] Steptronic (was Freelander siting)

>
>From: "Scott Wickham" <[email-masked]>
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:34 -0500
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>
>>We took the HSE for a spin.  Love that Steptronic tranny.
>
>The Steptronic is used in about six bazillion cars these days.  I just
>returned from a vacation in France and the UK.  In France, we rented
>a new Citroen C-5, their top line car with every piece of technology
>the company could think of.  It has the latest derivative of Citroen's
>famous
>hydraulic (or is it pneumatic?) suspension.  The version used on the C-5
>is active, constantly changing the suspension characteristics to suit the
>road
>and whatever the car happens to be doing at the moment.  It compensates for
>acceleration, deceleration, and side loads, and even adjusts the road
stance
>
>to minimize wind resistance.  Based on the C-5's ride and
>road handling, I would say Citroen's system is far superior to any other
>car suspension on the market.  I rode in friends' vehicles with
conventional
>
>suspensions on some of the same roads I drove the C-5 on.  Night and day
>difference.  It's the first new car I've driven in a long time that I think
>I would buy
>if it was available in the US.  While it's styling is pretty typical
>Euro-swoop, the C-5's
>technology seems to be on a par with or superior to the best from Mercedes,
>BMW, Audi, etc.
>And like many of today's vehicles like Volvo and VW, the station wagon
>(estate, brake)
>version of the C-5 is even better looking than the sedan (they don't make a
>2-door C-5 to my
>knowledge).
>
>I elected to rent one with a five speed, but they had them available with
>the
>Steptronic transmission, too.  VWs use them, as do a number of other
>manufacturers.  It's a nice transmission from a user point of view,
although
>I've
>had a couple of mechanic types tell me that they aren't as strong as
earlier
>
>generations of automatic transmissions.  But then with the Range Rover I
>guess it
>doesn't matter, as I believe that, like all modern SUVs, there is a warning
>in the
>front of the owner's manual stating that the warranty will be rendered void
>if the owner
>drives the vehicle on an unpaved road......:-)
>
>Regarding the Freelander, while I have heard that the vehicle has been
>wildly successful
>in the UK and other parts of Europe, I was surprised while in the UK to see
>so few of them.
>Granted, we were there only a few days, but we drove from London to
>Middlewich (just
>south of Manchester) and up in the foothills of the Peak District, so we
>were "exposed"
>to quite a bit of road traffic.  Not many Freelanders.  Loads of
>Discoveries, of course,
>as there has been since 1989.  Lots of Range Rovers and Defenders, too.  I
>know the
>numbers don't lie, so there must be a lot of Freelanders out there
>somewhere.  On the
>other hand, the weather was a bit overcast and sprinkly, so perhaps there
is
>a warning
>in the Freelander's manual about voiding the warranty if the vehicle is
>driven on anything
>but dry roads.  One of my co-workers has had a Jeep Cherokee and now a
Grand
>
>Cherokee since the early 1990s.  He has absolutely refused to take them out
>of the garage if
>there was even a threat of snow (a rarity here in Seattle).  It's the one
>vehicle he has that
>will get him around in snowy conditions, but he won't even open the garage
>door on those
>days.  As the Freelander's "off-road," or should I say "off-mall"
>capabilities are pretty
>limited, perhaps that's why we didn't see many of them around the other
>week. Some of the
>A-roads were pretty wet, so perhaps like my co-worker, most of England's
>Freelander
>owners were electing to drive vehicles better suited to the wet road
>conditions, like Reliant
>Robins or Vauxhall Astras.....:-)
>
>_________________________________________
>C. Marin Faure
>(original owner)
>1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 25
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:48:51 +0100
To: [email-masked]
From: Harald Hansen <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 16:13 15.11.01 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Paul Oxley wrote:
>
>> > Hope Peter wrote:
>> > > Paul the other day you mentioned you were going to be posting some 
>photos of
>> > > a rover you have been building.
>
>More photos at http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/paul/index.htm

Very nice pictures, Paul.  But please make some thumbnails on the front
page, because now you're using the main images and resizing them.  All of
the image still has to load, and on my modem it's   s l o w.

Regards,
Harald

-- 
Harald Hansen                           #========#       1975 and 1976
SW engineer, strategy gamer, LR owner   |___|__|__\___     Land Rover
E-mail: harald74@online[DOT]no          |  _|  |   |_ |} Series III 109" 
        harald.hansen@kongsberg[DOT]com ""(_)""""""(_)"   Station Wagons

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:44:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Hardtop leaks
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> RTV Urghh. The work of the devil.
> Al, you disappoint me.
> 

I was getting wet. The radio was getting wet. I was
NOT re-riveting that damn roof for an application of
sealer.

I agree - it's crap. However, it worked.....8*)

ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "Stude, Herman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:46:51 -0600
Subject: [lro] GPS
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello Everyone:

Last night at the annual general club meeting of the Houston Land Rover
Club, I won a Garmin Etrex Legend GPS.  I have been on the sidelines of this
technology for some time and never have saved any posts posted to this list
regarding the use of these nifty gadgets.

I have looked at the Garmin website and just updated the units' software.
Can someone point me to some places on the web for more GPS info?

Thanks much,

Herman Stude
1973 SIII 88
Texas

--__--__--

Message: 28
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:11:13 -0500
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Overdrive bearings
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thanks for being organised Al and reposting the list.  I appreciate your
discipline in filing the information  in  a place that it could be found.
 I have an OD to rebuild and was expecting to research the numbers all
over agian. 
 I have previuosly rebuilt several overdrives using the parts on the list
and saved a bundle.

Regards from Western New York State

  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 29
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:14:00 -0500
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Freelander
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>For those who are interested, there was a supercharged Freelander at
SEMA. 
It had the M62 Roots supercharger on it. Nice job.

Is this the callaway Freelander?

Regards from Western New York State
  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 30
Subject: RE: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: 15 Nov 2001 18:54:13 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 2001-11-15 at 09:30, Easton Trevor A wrote:
> 
> Probably the bottom of the tank between the skid plate and tank proper. It's
> likely rusted through from the outside and the rust has poked a small hole
> in the POR 15. Did you take off the skid plate when you treated the tank
> last time? This is where my tank went. I pulled off the skid plate, cut out
> the bottom and soldered in a new piece then POR 15'd. I used the POR15 to
> stick the skid plate back too.

Looks like thats it, good call. I just scrubbed the hell out of it and
wiped the bottom all clean. Went back inside, came out an hour later and
there is a nice wet circle the center of which is the flanged area
around the two bottom layers. Given the crud that was around the drain
plug it shouldnt suprise me that water collected and caused it to rust
down there. 

Of course now my problem is what to do. I think tank repair is more or
less out.I could probably get away with running tank sealer through it
again, but I dont have the skill to seperate the two sides and properly
cover the "outside" bottom. 

So, where to get new? RN has them for $250. BP for $190 (my price list
is 2000 tho) and DAP lists 'Heavy Duty' for $195 or something. 
Suggestions? Comments? Last note is that I'd like to get it BEFORE next
weekend if possible (and Im on east coast) as I can use weekend time off
to install it :-) 

-Nick

--__--__--

Message: 31
Subject: Re: [lro] GPS
From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: 15 Nov 2001 19:04:53 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 2001-11-15 at 17:46, Stude, Herman wrote:
> I have looked at the Garmin website and just updated the units' software.
> Can someone point me to some places on the web for more GPS info?

I have the same model and I love it. I got two accessories, the
dashboard mount and the external power cable. I mounted it center on the
dash and use it as a speedometer. 

I didnt find much in the way of useful links on how to USE it online but
there are plenty of links on neat things to do. Geocaching is
interesting tho I havent tried it
(http://www.google.com/search?q=geocaching+)

The other thing I really use it for is not getting lost in new cities.
The Garmin US Road CD is kinda pricey (I think it was $100?) but I've
used it quite a few times so far, sending the map of the city Im going
to into the GPS, plotting a few waypoints (hotel, location of whatever
ilec I have to go to, any sight I wanted to see) and its kept me from
driving around lost in quite a few California and mid west locations...

-Nick

--__--__--

Message: 32
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:12:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Overdrive bearings
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- William L Leacock <[email-masked]> wrote:
> I appreciate your
> discipline in filing the information  in  a place
> that it could be found.

De nada. 

Anyone who has ever seen my workshop would strongly
disagree with any sentence that contained my name and
the word "organized"...

Thanks for the compliment. -ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 33
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:16:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Nick, I sourced my last tank from Thatched Roof down
in Tennesee. it was a much better quality than the
two-piece el cheapo type that the non-LR dealers sell,
and a squatload cheaper than RN.

Don't remember what I paid, but it was less than RN
and AB. Give Dave Gage a call down there, and tell him
I said Hi.

              ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 34
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "'Nick Danger '" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked] '"
  <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:23:57 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

  Comments? Last note is that I'd like to get it BEFORE next
weekend if possible (and Im on east coast) as I can use weekend time off
to install it :-) 

-Nick

You could email Sally and ask her to overnight the fuel tank that should
have come with the soft top :-)

--__--__--

Message: 35
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:08:36 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Freelander
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yes, it was a Callaway setup. The paint hurt my eyes :)

Keith

At 15:14 11/15/01, you wrote:

> >For those who are interested, there was a supercharged Freelander at
>SEMA.
>It had the M62 Roots supercharger on it. Nice job.
>
>Is this the callaway Freelander?
>
>Regards from Western New York State
>   Bill Leacock.
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 36
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Tank Leaking
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:32:44 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Don't remember what I paid, but it was less than RN
> and AB. Give Dave Gage a call down there, and tell him
> I said Hi.

$150
http://www.thatchedroofgarage.com/front_page.htm
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 37
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Hardtop leaks
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:02:55 -0800
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> The product I used is Geocel Proflex Roof Seal. 1-800-348-7615, in
> Indiana.
> 
10$ per qt.  cornerhardware.com

Thx all

--__--__--

Message: 38
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:44:59 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hope Peter wrote:
 
> I see that one of the 88's has what appears to be roof vents fitted into the
> doors.  I have thought of doing the same thing to mine.  Damn things run
> over 100$ each here int eh USA new though.

Oh, that's mine. I bought truck air vents from a truck body parts place
and fitted them (about USD10 ea). They are cast ally with galv
mechanicals so they fit right in :-{)}. You just have to remember to
snap them shut BEFORE you start a deep wade.

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 39
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:48:47 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Harald Hansen wrote:

> >More photos at http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/paul/index.htm
> 
> Very nice pictures, Paul.  But please make some thumbnails on the front
> page, because now you're using the main images and resizing them.  All of
> the image still has to load, and on my modem it's   s l o w.

Yeah, sorry about that. But that's only on the first page I posted iow
Jacque's page. Someone sent me the software to slap the pages together
and I screwed up on the first one I did. The advantage is that you don't
have to wait for the images to come down once you want to view the
detail :-{)}

But on my own pages (quoted above) the situation is rectified.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 40
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:48:34 EST
Subject: Re: [lro] NY Freelander siting
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 11/15/01 5:43:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> There is also the open, close,open, I'll only stop when the ignition is off
> mode.
> 
> -
> 
> In article <[email-masked]>,  wrote:
> > I'll be interested in the various failure methods here. open, locked, and 
> > broken glass.
> >
> There is the "explode into fragments while driving at speed on the motorway 
> 

So, I posit a new Lucas Electrickery law, somewhat as follows.

1. Lucas is dead, and the ghost is not as powerful, as when the spirit walked 
the earth in the body.

2. Although we have much more electrickery, our actual roadside Lucas worship 
takes about the same amount of time as before, when there was less for Lucas 
to affect.

Thus, there is some density of Lucas, which has reduced over a period of 
time. Through the advent of multiple transmission paths for the Lucas forces, 
the Lucas frequency remains constant, and the force remains the same or at 
least similar. 

Yet more thus, We can expect to have a bunch more Lucas attracting stuff as 
time goes on. And, we will spend a good deal of time on the side of the 
motorway. 

Lucas passeth all understanding. I give up.

Zack

--__--__--

Message: 41
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:26:03 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Paul Oxley's rover photos
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hope Peter wrote:
 
> Like the roll cage rear struts.  Would love more details on the PTO hydralic
> winch.  Photo of how the winch is mounted I mean.

Hmm, OK. It, along with almost every other major piece on the 'hybrid'
is a badged Land-Rover original. It originally came off the front of a
Forward Control. The winch is driven off a standard PTO mount on the
back of the transfer case, with a HUGE reservoir tank for the oil. As
you can see from the photo at
http://braaigrid.org.za/mudgrid/jacque/imagepages/image2.htm the chassis
was lopped off just aft of the rear spring mounts, and a piece of
channel iron was welded in to hold the fairlead. The winch mounts onto
the back of this channel iron with additional supports on the sides onto
the chassis.

Brian, at whose house the Mill Bug lives, doesn't have a digital camera,
but I'll see if I can drop round there sometime if you need more
detailed shots. You can also mail Brian at "[email-masked]".
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

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