Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #145 - 38 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 03:03:29 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Fuel Economy? (apsilon)
   2. Re: Re: Rich running Zenith (N Forbes)
   3. Re: Paddocks (Peter Monk)
   4. Re: PTO drive options (Bill Adams)
   5. Re: 88 sides with sliding windows needed (RON WARD)
   6. RE: Problems with Paddocks... (Matthew Wilson)
   7. Buying Help - LR Virgin (Bell Jr, James T)
   8. Re: Buying Help - LR Virgin (RON WARD)
   9. Disco Tires question (Emmanuel Karpodinis)
  10. Re: Disco Tires question (Jeff Bieler)
  11. Re: Disco Tires question (RON WARD)
  12. The Zenith cure (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  13. Re: PTO rebuild kits (David Scheidt)
  14. RE: Re: Paddocks (Tackley, John)
  15. Re: Do Land Rovers run on day one? (Faure, Marin)
  16. Re: Re: Paddocks (Michael Hatton)
  17. Series IIA for sale... (george kase)
  18. Heat treating steel (Hope Peter)
  19. IIa 109 and III 88 for sale in Seattle area (Hope Peter)
  20. IIa 109 and III 88 for sale in (Hope Peter)
  21. Re: Re: Paddocks (Dick Joltes)
  22. Rob Davis engines. (Hope Peter)
  23. Re: Heat treating steel (Alan J. Richer)
  24. Re: Re: Paddocks (Keith Tanner)
  25. Re: Re: Paddocks (David Scheidt)
  26. Cooked steering relay (Keith Tanner)
  27. Frank Elson...you copy??? (Tackley, John)
  28. PTO's 'n' such (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  29. Re: Cooked steering relay (Alan J. Richer)
  30. Re: Cooked steering relay (Keith Tanner)
  31. RE: PTO's 'n' such (Easton Trevor A)
  32. Re: Heat treating steel (Jean-Leon Morin)
  33. Re: Cooked steering relay (Jean-Leon Morin)
  34. Interstate Motor Speedway Revisited (Hank Rutherford)
  35. Re: PTO rebuild kits (Andrew H. Litkowiak)
  36. non=rover northern lights very bright (Jim Hall)
  37. Re: non=rover northern lights very bright (Tim Czajka)
  38. Re: Disco Tires question (Paul Oxley)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "apsilon" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Fuel Economy?
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:57:58 +1100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thanks all,

I'm 95% certain that there are no leaks in the fuel system, certainly not
ones to the extent this would require. I suspect the gauge accuracy is way
out so I'll check it this coming weekend when I rebuild the fuel pump and
replace some or all of the old fuel line.

Matt.
Sydney Australia
'75 Series III 88

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Rich running Zenith
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:59:27 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Welcome back Marin,
How was the D130?

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:34:27 -0500
From: Peter Monk <[email-masked]>
Organization: Math. Sci., University of Delaware
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've always had good luck with Paddocks (e-mail or phone), but not such
good experiences with Craddocks (standard fuel tank instead of aux tank,
diff guards that don't fit, ...).  Without doing the math my feeling is
that ordering from the UK usually works out around the same cost as
ordering from RN or someone reliable like that - the difference in
initial price is made up by shipping costs and mistakes.  If you can go
in person to a store in the UK you can have better success (idea for a
holiday?).

Peter

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:26:00 -0500
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Organization: U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] PTO drive options
Reply-To: [email-masked]

	If you must have a PTO, the best option is to think about ditching the
Rover transfer case and upgrading with a Dana 18. This may be a bit
drastic, but there are some great benefits:
The Dana 18 is a very strong unit; cast iron case and monster gears.
They are plentiful and cheap to obtain...$50 or so. You can easily get
parts for it at any auto parts store. Its design is similar to the rover
unit, propshafts will bolt right up. It has a 2.46 low, with optional
kits that give a 3.14 low. The high gear is direct drive, not 1.15:1, so
your highway gearing is better.
	There are several Overdrives available, most notably the Warn/Saturn
unit, which is still in production today. Used units are available too.
There are at least two rear PTO units that bolt to the rear of the
overdrive with a left side drop, and I have seen bottom PTOs on Ebay and
a few Jeep sites.
Swapping in a Dana 18 would involve modification to the rear of the
transmission mainshaft and an adaptor plate, both chores easily
accomplished at any good machine shop.
	This is also a good time to think about the Robert Davis Mercruiser
engine conversion. You could install this engine with a good manual like
the Muncie SM420 (7.0 first gear, 81:1 crawler) or the Borg Warner
T-18/19 (6.32 first gear, 73:1 crawler) and a Dana 18 with the Warn OD
which will give you a freeway flyer and a rock crawler in one sweet
package.
	I wish that the Rover transfer case had more options available.
-- 
Bill Adams
3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
International Broadcasting Bureau
Washington, D.C.
202-205-9638
[email-masked]

'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel
'81 GoldWing
'69 Le Sabre Convertible
'63 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:49:03 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] 88 sides with sliding windows needed
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Have a complete regular hardtop (came on my 2a before I made it a soft top) with sliding side glass.  be glad to work a deal for the whole thing.

Ron Ward
Columbus, GA

>>> [email-masked] 11/02/01 21:03 PM >>>

hello,

i am trying something and need a pair of 88 sides for my 109. decent condition
and sliding windows, any color or condition of paint....i have a sander and
paint!
i am located in CT.
thank you
chill willGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Matthew Wilson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Problems with Paddocks...
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 08:44:23 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

  Wow, I ordered a few things off of Paddock's online system around the end
of the summer.  I asked for email confirmation when the order was shipped
and that was done.  All in all I was quite happy with the attention I was
given via email, never had to call them at all.
  As far as price, I made a smallish order, but still saved about 20$ as
compared with RN.  Delivery time was less than a week.
  I'd order again, but I think I'd group my order with a couple of local
LROs to save on shipping and make a larger order.
Matthew

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
Of Michael Hatton
Sent: 04 November, 2001 9:49
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Problems with Paddocks...

Has anyone else had problems ordering parts from Paddocks?

Over the past few years I have ordered parts from numerous different UK
suppliers and had service varying from good to below average, but Paddocks
has consistently given me bad service.
I have learned not to change any order to any UK supplier as this seems to
cause an endless amount of confusion on their end, with extended delays
incorrect orders.
I emailed an order to Paddocks on October 2, 2001, which I followed up
with a phone call to make sure they had received it and to give them my
visa no. (which I also emailed seperately).
I was told that my order should be ready to ship in a week, and that they
would send me a tracking no. Two weeks later I phoned and asked the status
of my order. I was kept on hold for about ten minutes whilst they tried to
find out what had happened to it. They then said that they would email me,
so that I would not have to stay on hold. I got nothing.... (and we have a
very solid email server, so it is not like the email got lost)

I have followed up once a week since then and have been given the same
run-around.

Does anyone know a how to get them to make some kind of response, a bad
excuse would be better than nothing.

Michael Hatton.

1972 SIII 88" (almost done frameover - except for the Paddocks Parts!)
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Bell Jr, James T" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover List'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:51:08 -0500 
Subject: [lro] Buying Help - LR Virgin
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Gang:

I'm a LR virgin.  I need help buying my wife a 97-98 Disco.  Any advice on
what to look for (trouble areas, better years, etc.) would be much
appreciated.  Either post directly or shoot me an e-mail if you have any
thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

Jay T. Bell
Director - Communications & Media
KPMG Corporate Finance LLC
phone:     404.979.2128
fax:           404.222.3472
[email-masked]

*****************************************************************************
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else
is unauthorized. 

If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution
or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited
and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice
contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in
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*****************************************************************************

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:11:43 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Buying Help - LR Virgin
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jay,

Looks like you are in the Atlanta area.  Give Bill Saks or Ken Cunningham at Bear Valley Land Rover in Roswell (GA 400 North) a call.  They have a good selection of off-lease and used Discos in all years.  I have bought twice from them and they treated me fairly and have great service technicians. www.bvlr.com

As with most things, the newer the better.  

Ron Ward
Columbus, GA

>>> [email-masked] 11/05/01 09:51AM >>>

Gang:

I'm a LR virgin.  I need help buying my wife a 97-98 Disco.  Any advice on
what to look for (trouble areas, better years, etc.) would be much
appreciated.  Either post directly or shoot me an e-mail if you have any
thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

Jay T. Bell
Director - Communications & Media
KPMG Corporate Finance LLC
phone:     404.979.2128
fax:           404.222.3472
[email-masked] 

*****************************************************************************
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:03:13 +0200
To: [email-masked]
From: Emmanuel Karpodinis <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Disco Tires question
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello all,

have someone fit 215/85 tires on a Disco (V8) without modifications
(trimming on the rear wheel  fender or steering bumpstops adjustment)?

TIA
--------------------------------------------------------------
Emmanuel Karpodinis, Software Developer
Eric Cauchi SA
Systems Engineering Dpt.
1 Klissovis str, 185 38 - Piraeus Greece
Phone  :    (+301)  42.84.978
Fax    :    (+301)  42.84.237
E-Mail :    [email-masked]
WWW    :    http://www.ecauchi.gr
--------------------------------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 08:12:12 -0800
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco Tires question
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I run the Dunlop Radial Rover R/T's in 215/85R16.  We have an OME medium
lift.

Here is a pic of what I had to trim (very very minor)...

<http://home.earthlink.net/~mrbieler/_uimages/reartrimming.jpg>

Good luck.

Jeff

on 11/5/01 8:03 AM, Emmanuel Karpodinis at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Hello all,
> 
> have someone fit 215/85 tires on a Disco (V8) without modifications
> (trimming on the rear wheel  fender or steering bumpstops adjustment)?
> 
> TIA
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Emmanuel Karpodinis, Software Developer
> Eric Cauchi SA
> Systems Engineering Dpt.
> 1 Klissovis str, 185 38 - Piraeus Greece
> Phone  :    (+301)  42.84.978
> Fax    :    (+301)  42.84.237
> E-Mail :    [email-masked]
> WWW    :    http://www.ecauchi.gr
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:11:56 -0500
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco Tires question
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I know of someone who has 215 85 with a medium duty OME lift that required minimal trimming in the rear.  Not sure about bumpstops and steering adjustments.

Ron Ward

>>> [email-masked] 11/05/01 11:03AM >>>

Hello all,

have someone fit 215/85 tires on a Disco (V8) without modifications
(trimming on the rear wheel  fender or steering bumpstops adjustment)?

TIA
--------------------------------------------------------------
Emmanuel Karpodinis, Software Developer
Eric Cauchi SA
Systems Engineering Dpt.
1 Klissovis str, 185 38 - Piraeus Greece
Phone  :    (+301)  42.84.978
Fax    :    (+301)  42.84.237
E-Mail :    [email-masked] 
WWW    :    http://www.ecauchi.gr 
--------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:55:55 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] The Zenith cure
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>This will fix the warp, but not the problem that causes the warp, so the
>carburetor halves will warp again in time.  The only way to permanently fix
>the warp is to do what the factory failed to do, and that is heat-treat the
>carburetor halves.  This involves heating the halves to a specific
>temperature for a specific time, and than stepping the temperature down
>over specified periods of time.  I don't recall the temps or times, but I'm
>sure someone else will post these. 

That's 400 F - overnight.  The next day, reduce by 50F each hour 'til back
at room temps.  (Try to do this when the wife is scheduled to be out of
town....)  Then glass plate grind the thing...for the last time.

Zeniths can also exhibit one other curious malady.  Overly-rich running
when turning in one direction but not the other.  The brass of the float is
softer than the brass of the cross-shaft and as a result, eliptical holes
get worn in the float arm, with the bowl over-filling at some vehicle
attitudes.  Weird running is the clue.  I replaced the float from the 'new'
Zenith (1987) with the float from the old (1972).

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:56:00 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: Land Rover List <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] PTO rebuild kits
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sun, 4 Nov 2001, Andrew H. Litkowiak wrote:

> 
> I've check several catalogs. No one seems to list PTO parts at all. I
> need gaskets and seals for a rear PTO box and the rear power unit.
> 

Gaskets you can make yourself out of suitable material. You should be able
to source seals from a bearing factor.  Take the old ones with you.

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:03:57 -0500 
Reply-To: [email-masked]

...been using Matt Savage lately, with quite good luck...

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:33:13 -0800 
Subject: [lro] Re: Do Land Rovers run on day one?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 21:46:02 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Do Land Rovers run on day one? (was new Series...)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Marin, most of us haven't had the chance to babysit our trucks from new.

It's an advantage few Series owners have these days.  BMW no longer makes
the 
6-series (the only recent BMW model I like), so every one I've had has been
purchased used.  
Sometimes you get lucky and get a used vehicle that's been well looked
after.  But I think 
more often you get a vehicle with hidden problems.  After all, if the owner
liked it well enough 
to baby it, he's probably going to hang on to it for a long time rather than
put it on the block.  
So the ones that come up for sale are often poor runners, or haven't been
run at all for ages.  I wasn't 
trying to imply that today's Series buyers are second rate behind the
relatively few people around 
these days who bought them when they were new.  I was just pointing out what
I think are some 
of the reasons why so many new owners seem to have problems with their
vehicles.  None of them 
are the new buyer's fault, but are the result of past years of poor
maintenance, neglect, or 
modifications that actually increase the likelihood of a problem.

Fortunately, Series Land Rovers are extremely easy to troubleshoot and fix,
and parts are still 
readily available for most of the models, although they are getting more and
more expensive.  So I 
suspect it's a hell of a lot easier to get a 1960s Land Rover up and running
again than 
a 1960s Cadillac.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:34:59 -0500
From: Michael Hatton <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I normally would agree on the price issue, but I am ordering SS exhaust,
which is considerably cheaper than RN, even taking into account
shipping/numerous long distance phone calls/aggravation.

The pain of dealing with UK suppliers is really becoming not worth it
anymore.

It seems to be that because you're on the otherside of the world, you're
unlikely to show up on their doorstep with a bat, so they can treat you
with complete indifference and sometimes plain rudeness.
I never got the same level of indifference when I actually lived there.

Anyone tried Autopost in London? (my brother lives round the corner )

Michael "right-pissed-off" Hatton

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Peter Monk wrote:

>
> I've always had good luck with Paddocks (e-mail or phone), but not such
> good experiences with Craddocks (standard fuel tank instead of aux tank,
> diff guards that don't fit, ...).  Without doing the math my feeling is
> that ordering from the UK usually works out around the same cost as
> ordering from RN or someone reliable like that - the difference in
> initial price is made up by shipping costs and mistakes.  If you can go
> in person to a store in the UK you can have better success (idea for a
> holiday?).
>
> Peter
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 17
Date: 05 Nov 2001 11:51:27 -0600
From: george kase <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Series IIA for sale...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm selling my 1964 Series IIA...many new parts...
including new rear xmember...bulkhead is sound...needs tires and paint job...email me off list for details...located in Chicago area.
George Kase

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:56:27 -0800
Subject: [lro] Heat treating steel
Reply-To: [email-masked]

What is the proper way for hardening plain old steel?
Is it heat red hot and cool slow or heat red hot and oil quench?
I need to try and harden a very small part for a single action I am working
on.  It's part of the safety and the hammer dropping on it is beating it to
death.  I ordered a new one, and it also is not hardened.

If someone had access to a lathe, is it reasonable to think about making a
part and then hardening?
I am thinking about the modification needed to use an other then rover
tranny with the rover transfercase, welding the Rover output to the other
output.

Is there a way to take a currently hardened part, 'de'harden it.  Do the
machining and then 're'harden it?

Thanks a bunch
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:58:17 -0800
Subject: [lro] IIa 109 and III 88 for sale in Seattle area
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Local paper has two seperate Series adds.  109 is 12k 88 is 4k.  I can email
the text of the add and contact numbers.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:59:03 -0800
Subject: [lro] IIa 109 and III 88 for sale in
Reply-To: [email-masked]

----- Original Message -----
From: "george kase" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 09:51
Subject: [lro] Series IIA for sale...

>
> I'm selling my 1964 Series IIA...many new parts...
> including new rear xmember...bulkhead is sound...needs tires and paint
job...email me off list for details...located in Chicago area.
> George Kase
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:07:36 -0500
From: Dick Joltes <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Michael Hatton wrote:

[...]
 
> It seems to be that because you're on the otherside of the world, you're
> unlikely to show up on their doorstep with a bat, so they can treat you
> with complete indifference and sometimes plain rudeness.
> I never got the same level of indifference when I actually lived there.

It all seems to depend on your 'relationship' with the supplier.  I've
ordered from several different companies and the service levels have 
generally been more or less the same, i.e. a semi-comfortable level of
apathy.  Often the prices are _significantly_ better; on other occasions 
they end up being about the same.  I just tried to get a new starter 
(RN price $219 + $75 core) and found I could score one in the UK for 
about $75...but they wanted a 50-quid (~$72) core as well, and shipping 
the old unit back was prohibitively expensive.

Generally, however, I get parts for better prices than I've found at
most US-based retailers.  If everything is in stock I've had orders 
arrive in a week; on other occasions I've had to wait for some out-of-
stock part and it's taken 3 weeks or more.  YMMV.

As I mentioned on the list a while back, "UK businesses" and "good 
customer service" generally are mutually exclusive.  I was warned about
this when I moved to London in 1998 and it's absolutely true.
 
> Anyone tried Autopost in London? (my brother lives round the corner)

Autopost are great guys as long as you don't ask them to ship to USA.
Aside from their normal carriage rate (which was quoted to me as 
1.45UKP/kilo (about $1.00/lb)) they also charge a flat 50-quid fee for 
taking goods to the airport and running them through customs.  Thus 
I don't order from them at this point and am trying to get them to 
change this--no other dealer seems to charge such a fee.

Then again, I can't get anyone else to tell me how much they charge per
kilo, so maybe they're just rolling some 'service fee' into the whole
carriage charge. 

If your brother can go get your goods and ship them himself you may
be able to do quite well.  Paolo and co. are very nice blokes and can
get pretty much anything.  But their dogs are pains in the arse :-/.

cheers,

dj
1974 SIII Airportable, "Smudger"

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:07:51 -0800
Subject: [lro] Rob Davis engines.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> This is also a good time to think about the Robert Davis Mercruiser
> engine conversion. 

Bill, what is the current version of the engine going for?
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:14:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Heat treating steel
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

--- Hope Peter <[email-masked]> wrote:

Hardening is typically polish, mill, then head past
the Curie point and quench. This, of course,
preassumes that the steel you are buggering around
with is a hardenable type.

More specifically, some steels are oil-hardening, some
water-hardening, and others (low-carbon cold-rolled)
just ain't gonna harden unless you case-harden the
surface.

>From the sound of the piece personally I would harden
it, then draw part of the temper as a glass-hard piece
might well chip if left full hard. Draw it to straw or
even purple - it will stay harder then annealed and
tough.

> If someone had access to a lathe, is it reasonable
> to think about making a
> part and then hardening?

Hell yes - I do this often.

> I am thinking about the modification needed to use
> an other then rover
> tranny with the rover transfercase, welding the
> Rover output to the other
> output.
> 

More than my shop is equipped for...

> Is there a way to take a currently hardened part,
> 'de'harden it.  Do the
> machining and then 're'harden it?
> 

Yup, annealing it in a furnace (heating past the curie
point, then reducing the temperature slowly. 

Do yourself a favor, find a good local machinist -
they can handle it.

                    ajr

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 24
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:20:01 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Then again, I can't get anyone else to tell me how much they charge per
>kilo, so maybe they're just rolling some 'service fee' into the whole
>carriage charge.

Actually, it's more likely that they don't have a set per-kilo charge and 
they simply pass along the charges from the shipping company. The first 
kilo is always the most expensive, and bulky items will often be charged by 
volume (dimensional weight) instead of actual weight. I work for a 
mail-order company that sells car parts and this is how it works for us.

Keith

--__--__--

Message: 25
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:03:55 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Paddocks
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Dick Joltes wrote:

> 
> Then again, I can't get anyone else to tell me how much they charge per
> kilo, so maybe they're just rolling some 'service fee' into the whole
> carriage charge. 

Air freight isn't priced strictly on weight, so a per kilo charge isn't
necessarily a good deal.  The volume of the package is also a factor.  A box
2 feet on a side has a "dimensional weight" of about 75 lbs.  That means
you'll pay the rate for a 75 pound object, even if it's empty.  If it
weighs more, they'll charge more.  There are additional charges for odd
shaped and oversize packages.  It's really difficult to figure out what
frieght charges will be before you've packed things.  

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:00 -0700
To: "lro-koan.team.net" <[email-masked]>
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Cooked steering relay
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I haven't been into a steering relay yet. Is there anything inside that 
would be damaged by heat? I'd like to reuse the one that was in my "new" 
frame instead of removing Basil's...

Keith

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 15:39:22 -0500 
Subject: [lro] Frank Elson...you copy???
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Frank...hello..<spitzz--sputterzzz>...are you there, old boy???

...if you can hear me...email me off-list, kind sir...
....
....
...as yer e-mail account appears to be "over quota", according to your mail
server's postmaster.

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 16:42:00 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] PTO's 'n' such
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Good to hear from you again, Trevor...hope that all parts concerned are on
the mend.  Just got an e-mail from our other injured bretheren, Stuart
Moore.  Seems he was well enough to go out and mow the lawn this weekend.
His recovery continues to amaze his doctors.  What was expected to be a one
year recovery period has been shortened to *two months*.

Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]> wrote:

> To retain the OD you can use a "bottom" PTO. This fits in place of the
>bottom cover of the TC and picks up its drive from the output gear (I
>think). Probably now made of unobtainium :-). I have seen pictures but never
>anything in the flesh.

Robert Davis has one of these...new, in the *original* Land Rover wooden
packing crate.  Only one that I've ever seen.

>Another alternative is to go with a belt drive hydraulic pump. Similar to an
>A/C unit with an electric clutch but pumping oil instead of freon. Trouble
>is to put out a decent amount of power a multibelt drive or seroius toothed
>belt is needed.

Rover also made a hydraulic pump that would fit in the rear PTO hole in
place of the O/D.  Guess who has a new one, complete, in it's original
crate?....

There for a while, I was considering one of these hydraulic pumps for the
Disco, as the PTO hole on the back of an LT 230 t-box sure looks the same
diameter, etc. as the series T-box.  Before Robert acquire his, it noticed
that  Craddock's lists them in their adds, but they were less than helpful
when it came to actual dimensions and whatnot.  (Yeah, I know...trust 'em
as far as you can throw 'em...)  Further research was one of those 'round
tuits' that I never....

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 29
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:14:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan J. Richer" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Cooked steering relay
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If it passes the torque scale test it should be OK.
Personally, though, I'd disassemble and inspect.

It's not rocket science, just needs healthy respect
and a willingness to deal with a BIG spring.

ajr

--- Keith Tanner <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> I haven't been into a steering relay yet. Is there
> anything inside that 
> would be damaged by heat? I'd like to reuse the one
> that was in my "new" 
> frame instead of removing Basil's...
> 
> Keith
> 
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
>     http://keith.miata.net
> ------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 30
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:38:57 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Cooked steering relay
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Disassemble and inspect? Oh goody, more to take apart :)

Keith

At 15:14 11/5/01, you wrote:

>If it passes the torque scale test it should be OK.
>Personally, though, I'd disassemble and inspect.
>
>It's not rocket science, just needs healthy respect
>and a willingness to deal with a BIG spring.
>
>ajr
>
>--- Keith Tanner <[email-masked]> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't been into a steering relay yet. Is there
> > anything inside that
> > would be damaged by heat? I'd like to reuse the one
> > that was in my "new"
> > frame instead of removing Basil's...
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > ------------
> > Keith's page de home:
> >     http://keith.miata.net
> > ------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > LRO mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
>
>=====
>Please ignore the following advertising.....
>Find a job, post your resume.
>http://careers.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 31
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "'A. P. (Sandy) Grice '" <[email-masked]>, "[email-masked] '"
  <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] PTO's 'n' such
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:28:02 -0500 
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Good to hear from you again, Trevor...hope that all parts concerned are
on
the mend.  
First I knew that I was broken!! But thanks for you concern anyway.

Just got an e-mail from our other injured bretheren, Stuart
Moore.  Seems he was well enough to go out and mow the lawn this
weekend.
His recovery continues to amaze his doctors.  What was expected to be a
one
year recovery period has been shortened to *two months*.

Shows what the best wishes of multiple LROs can do for one.
Hope they work for "Nelson" Cranfield too.

Rover also made a hydraulic pump that would fit in the rear PTO hole in
place of the O/D.  Guess who has a new one, complete, in it's original
crate?....

I have one of these. Well actually it's a PTO driving a 7 piston compensated
pump. 29 gpm at 3000 psi at 1800 rpm. If I use the full output my hydraulic
oil will probably boil within minutes. It currently drives an Aeroparts
Capstan (Turned 90 degrees, raised 1 inch, powered by an Eaton motor). 

Also a Round Tiut job. I had the pump for 15 years before I installed it.

--__--__--

Message: 32
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Heat treating steel
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:53:35 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter,

My Ford T-18 output shaft is indeed a cut and rewelded part, in order to
mate a rover t-case to it. We were dealing with super hard shafts - got them
both nice and glowing red when they were in the lathe, then cooled them
slowly by backing off with the torch - took approx 30 mins to cool them down
slow enough.

We welded the shaft while keeping it glowing red, while jigged in the lathe,
and we cooled it slowly - the machinist that helped me with it is a gonzo
fabrication whiz, and he said that we would be better to try and leave the
welded area non-hardened as he had doubts at our ability to harden it
effectively without getting a scale on the complete shaft, which means the
precision surfaces would be screwed up.

I've put this shaft through hell, and it's broken - although this was a
result of the complete transfer case shearing its bolts and falling off the
transmission... Interestingly, it broke about 2" down the shaft, away from
the weld - I did a rockwell test on the shaft and it broke at a point where
the hardness was greater than the welded area, which means it was a totally
unrelated failure - The t case separation can be attibuted to a bad U joint,
poor choice of bolts, and...

engineering stupidity on my part ;-)

My advice? Weld the shaft, leave it unhardened. You will run into all kinds
of potential part scrapping problems if you want to harden it.

I am on very good terms with the local shop that did my custom work, and
could probably get this shaft built for you if you don't know a competent,
problem solving machinist in your area. The welding skills needed for this
are pretty involved - The guy who did it is probably the best welder that
ever existed, and just to give you an idea at what he can tackle, his
lathe's bed is about as long as my 109...

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Cooked steering relay
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:56:13 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Err...

Removing the old steering relay out of Basil?

I would advise against that... They usually get siezed up in a grand way...
Almost impossible to remove. I'd stick with the rebuilding idea, or get some
blue wrenches and cut the old one out of the chassis. Of course, it can be
removed, but the question is - are you willing to spend a weekend doing
nothing but messing with a sledge hammer and penetrating oil?

I'd rather cuss at a spring than beat the crap out of an old chassis...
Plsu, who knows what Basil's relay looks like inside? With a fresh relay,
you are guaranteed faithful service for a long time.

J-L

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [lro] Cooked steering relay

>
> Disassemble and inspect? Oh goody, more to take apart :)
>
> Keith
>
> At 15:14 11/5/01, you wrote:
>
> >If it passes the torque scale test it should be OK.
> >Personally, though, I'd disassemble and inspect.
> >
> >It's not rocket science, just needs healthy respect
> >and a willingness to deal with a BIG spring.
> >
> >ajr
> >
> >--- Keith Tanner <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I haven't been into a steering relay yet. Is there
> > > anything inside that
> > > would be damaged by heat? I'd like to reuse the one
> > > that was in my "new"
> > > frame instead of removing Basil's...
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > ------------
> > > Keith's page de home:
> > >     http://keith.miata.net
> > > ------------
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > LRO mailing list
> > > [email-masked]
> > > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> >
> >
> >=====
> >Please ignore the following advertising.....
> >Find a job, post your resume.
> >http://careers.yahoo.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
>     http://keith.miata.net
> ------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 34
From: "Hank Rutherford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:59:37 -0500
Subject: [lro] Interstate Motor Speedway Revisited
Reply-To: [email-masked]

   Looks like I'll be putting the recent thread on Land-Rover reliability to
the test. I have mapped out a +\- 2400 mile jaunt across country starting in
Central NY, to Winchester, Va....down the blue Ridge Parkway  and rejoining
I81 to Thatched Roof Garage in Tennessee (they don't know I'm coming).....
to family in Hendersonville, NC. From there to Knoxville, across route 70
to Nashville, up I24 to Clarksville, on to Land Between the Lakes for the
scenic part of Tennessee. On to Paducah, then route 60 to Poplar Bluff, and
Springfield, Missouri. At Springfield, I plan on heading north on 13 to
connect to 54, and follow it thru Wichita, then 50 thru Kansas to
Pueblo,Co.... then on to Colorado Springs (where I'll get a ride in Steve
Moore's 101FC!), and eventually up to Cheyenne, Wyoming. Whew!
    Any input from the masses? Do I need my head examined? Thanks to those
who have already given input. (!) Are there any oasis of spare parts just in
case? I plan on roughing it as much as possible, even though the camping
season is over. Any neat places to stay? Sites to see? Roadside diners to
try? Rover folk to stop and see for a quick coffee and share in my photo
album? Might there be a trials event going on? World's Largest Ball of
String?
   1 week and counting...you should have seen the face on the AAA lady when
I requested a trip tic.

Hank Rutherford
[email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 35
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:05:03 -0600
From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] PTO rebuild kits
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The cork I can do. The tissue thin gaskets between the aluminum mating
surfaces are an entirely different story.

Andy Litkowiak

David Scheidt wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 4 Nov 2001, Andrew H. Litkowiak wrote:
> 
> >
> > I've check several catalogs. No one seems to list PTO parts at all. I
> > need gaskets and seals for a rear PTO box and the rear power unit.
> >
> 
> Gaskets you can make yourself out of suitable material. You should be able
> to source seals from a bearing factor.  Take the old ones with you.
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 36
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:23:26 -0700
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: "lro" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] non=rover northern lights very bright
Reply-To: [email-masked]

They can be seen in Colorado right now. a beautiful red and green
-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

--__--__--

Message: 37
From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:53:28 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: non=rover northern lights very bright
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jim Hall wrote:
>They can be seen in Colorado right now a beautiful red and green
>
I was just out for a run but the cloud cover
here must be obscuring the lights.  However
there is a rather bright point just below the
moon tonight - I think Jupiter.

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 38
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:58:20 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin.com
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco Tires question
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Emmanuel Karpodinis wrote:
 
> have someone fit 215/85 tires on a Disco (V8) without modifications
> (trimming on the rear wheel  fender or steering bumpstops adjustment)?

Sure, it's only at 235/85 that the tyres start rubbing.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

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