Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #142 - 10 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 03:07:29 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Heater Redux (Rob MacCormick)
   2. Re: Heater Redux (richer alan)
   3. Results (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
   4. Re: Results (Frank Elson)
   5. RE: Results (Tackley, John)
   6. Re: Heater Redux (Stephen West-Fisher)
   7. 88 sides with sliding windows needed ([email-masked])
   8. Koenig winches (Kirk Hillman)
   9. PTO drive options (Kirk Hillman)
  10. Re: Torque wrenches and Land Rovers (Jean-Leon Morin)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 07:02:25 -0500
From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
Organization: Boston College
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Heater Redux
Reply-To: [email-masked]

What kind of truck did she have?

Stephen West-Fisher wrote:

> Peter Ogilvie wrote:
>
> >
> > Three years on a boat and nearly 10 years using alternate energy in our
> > house got me real familiar with Kerosene.  Maybe the fumes went to my
> > head but I kind of like the smell of kerosene.
>
> I was almost aftraid to say it, but when I was a teenager I had a job as
> a truck mechanic at a concrete company. Had a thing going on with a
> secretary there, who used to come visit me in the one stall garage. The
> only heaters were the kerosene space heater/blower things in the shop.
> The smell of kerosene makes me think of something else.....
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 04:11:25 -0800 (PST)
From: richer alan <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Heater Redux
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I don't think it was the truck he was after....just
the bumpers...

--- Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]> wrote:
> What kind of truck did she have?
> 
> 
> > Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> > The smell of kerosene makes me think of something
> else.....

=====
Please ignore the following advertising.....
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:18:53 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Results
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>

>Sandy, I need those results.

Sorry, I don't have them...John has my clip board with everything on it....

Cheers

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Message: 4
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Results
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:07:52 -0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

john?
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: [lro] Results

>
> "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
>
> >Sandy, I need those results.
>
> Sorry, I don't have them...John has my clip board with everything on
it....
>
> Cheers
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Results
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:46:46 -0500 
Reply-To: [email-masked]

OK, OK, Sandy ratted me out...I'll see if I can decipher his chicken scratch
and get those results to you Monday.

Have a great weekend, Frank!

L8r,
John

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Elson [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 2:08 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Results

john?
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: [lro] Results

>
> "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
>
> >Sandy, I need those results.
>
> Sorry, I don't have them...John has my clip board with everything on
it....
>
> Cheers
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 17:48:23 -0500
From: Stephen West-Fisher <[email-masked]>
Organization: Coastal Data Systems
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Heater Redux
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rob MacCormick wrote:

> What kind of truck did she have?
> 

Scout with the pickup top.

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 20:23:47 -0500
Subject: [lro] 88 sides with sliding windows needed
Reply-To: [email-masked]

hello,

i am trying something and need a pair of 88 sides for my 109. decent condition
and sliding windows, any color or condition of paint....i have a sander and
paint!
i am located in CT.
thank you
chill willGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:40:19 -0700
Subject: [lro] Koenig winches
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but when I searched for 'Koenig winch',
I found the site for Rawson-Koenig.  I would venture a guess that they are
the remnants of the same company.  Is this where people are getting parts
from?
    Also, does anyone have a parts diagram comparing the PTO and crank
version?  I have found a PTO version on an early SI, but I have an OD and
was wondering if the crank version was a different animal or what.

Thanks,
Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 20:30:57 -0700
Subject: [lro] PTO drive options
Reply-To: [email-masked]

    I was just looking around and found a web page with an adaptor to use
both an OD and PTO.  This PTO drove his Koenig Series 100.    It got my
hopes all up until I found out that it was on an early Jeep.  That being the
case, I suppose the same couldn't be done on a LR could it?  The premise was
that he took a regular gear and modified it.  I have never taken my
transmission/transfer case apart so I have never actually seen these parts,
let alone the OD.
    Assuming it even was possible, wouldn't the OD and PTO have to be driven
at the same time?  I know there is a clutch on the Koenig but I would rather
not have that extra shaft spinning when I am on the highway.  Conversely, I
don't want the OD engaged when I am stuck and trying to winch myself out.
Is this making sense or am I missing something?
    Here is the link to the page I found this on: http://vernco.com/id41.htm
    I have done much speculating on this and that over the past couple of
LRO years.  I have finally decided to do something with my LR and the first
thing was to get a decent front bumper built.  That lead to the idea of
losing the crappy electric winch I have and getting something that will pull
stronger and longer.  The options were hydraulic and mechanical driven.  The
Koenig made the most sense if I could find one in a crank driven version,
but I found a PTO version instead.  So I have a Fairey OD and want a PTO.
'And now you know the rest of the story...'

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Torque wrenches and Land Rovers
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 21:25:50 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Re: Pet Peeve from Chris Hall.

I agree with you that in order for the universe to function correctly and
the planet to not fall apart, Newton's law must be true - it states that for
every force there is an equal and opposite force.

This would mean that 100 Nm at on end would mean 100 Nm at the other end.
Yes, you are right, the extension would be turning if the torques varied
from one end to another - IF the extension was stiff enough to not absorb
energy, in this case torque, in the form of deformation. Keep in mind that
this system is not at rest, but it is in motion and operating under load -
and a spring can absorb energy... It's gotta give it back though.

I also agree that loss of power in impact tools is a completely separate
matter - That I won't discuss here. I might be completely wrong here, I
admit it - But I don't think I am. Not trying to start a flame war either...

I'll try and explain my point.

You are pulling a sled. Really slowly. On the rope between the sled and your
hand is a spring. You start walking. The spring will extend (hereby
absorbing energy) until you have accumulated enough energy (this would be
torque in the extension) to get the sled moving. The sled totes along behind
you happily, the spring is extended, and you are NOT losing any energy in
this state, everything is in total equilibrium. 100KN in, 100KN out. But
then -

You slow down. The sled will stop. You will see that the spring will still
be extended a bit, and you will find that the energy that you have put in to
moving the sled has been partly dissipated by common factors (friction, etc)
but a portion of it will still be absorbed in the spring. That's the
problem. That energy gets released when you let go of the rope, your pull
completed.

It has to do with the fact that is harder to get something slipping than to
keep it slipping - the coefficients of friction for static and kinetic
friction (moving and non-moving) are different. Of course, momentum does not
apply here- a REALLY slow pull.

HOW THIS RELATES TO THE TORQUE WRENCH...

What will happen will be that you will initially accumulate torque in the
spring (extension). As soon as you pass the static friction threshold, your
socket and bolt will effectively spring forward, unloading the extension, as
the power to keep things moving is less and the bolt will grab again as you
aren't applying enough torque (the bar is unloaded and yet again twisting
ever so slightly, absorbing energy). This starts the cycle over again.

Think of what happens next - as you near the torque specification, you will
reach the point again where you bolt will stop moving and have to start over
and cross that static threshold to keep moving. Instead of doing so, the bar
will absorb the energy, and you'll max out your torque spec, without ever
reaching the torque specification desired.  The stored energy that doesn't
go towards tightening the bolt up gets released when you back off the torque
wrench and remove it from the bolt head.

I'm not making this up - In high school I distinctly remember being told
repeatedly that torque wrenches and 3/8" or 1/2" extensions over 6" long for
head bolts, etc did NOT work - they would throw you off a bit - I remember
reading service manuals (although regrettably I don't know which ones) where
they actually gave you an equation to calculate the proper torque setting,
taking into account the length and X section area of your extension... These
figures might be in my old schoolbooks, I'll try and find them. I have never
ever seen or heard of a professional mechanic using an extension on a torque
wrench when dealing with close tolerance bolts...

I reserve the right to be crazy, but I'm damn sure on this one...

J-L

 > OK,  J-L  , Pet pieve time.  Think about that first paragraph.  If the
> torque was not the same on both ends of the extension the extension would
> be turning.  If it stops turning it stops because the torque is the same
> on both ends just in opposite directions.  Extensions DO absorb torque
> when used with impact tools because the torque is not delivered smoothly
> so the extension twists when torque is applied and untwists so the next
> hit on the anvil has to twist it up again.  This is not the case with a
> hand operated wrench (or it should not be) so a 3 meter extension with a
> torsional force of 100 Nt/m at one end will have a have a torsional force
> of 100 Nt/m in the other direction at the far end if the extension is not
> turning.  I wish someone would may me for all the broken and striped
> fastener I have had to fix because of this misunderstanding.
>
> No problem with the rest of your post

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