Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #125 - 52 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:54:03 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: heater blower alternatives ? (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
   2. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (John Cranfield)
   3. Re: heater blower alternatives ? (John Cranfield)
   4. Re: Seatbelts (tim wadsworth)
   5. frosty cold (Rob MacCormick)
   6. Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield? (Garrick Olsen)
   7. Fiddly Bits- interior- needed (Garrick Olsen)
   8. Fiddly Bits- interior- needed (Garrick Olsen)
   9. Re: Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield? (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  10. Plating prices (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  11. Alternative parts (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  12. Re: brake drum removal (Faure, Marin)
  13. Marin's modified Rover (was replacing starter motor) (Faure, Marin)
  14. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  15. Re: Starter removal (Faure, Marin)
  16. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  17. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Kirk Hillman)
  18. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Kirk Hillman)
  19. Re: Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield? (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  20. New List Member, (brodie Pedersen)
  21. Re: New List Member, (Frank Elson)
  22. Re: New List Member, (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  23. Re: Disco question (Jeremy)
  24. Re: HT leads (Jeremy)
  25. RE: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Easton Trevor A)
  26. Re: Re: Starter removal (John Cranfield)
  27. Land Rover Trek? (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mattias_Bostr=F6m?=)
  28. Re: New List Member, (Bryan Hoult)
  29. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Kirk Hillman)
  30. Flat Towing? (fulcrum5)
  31. Brake drum (William L Leacock)
  32. wheel stud thread size (asfco)
  33. Re: Flat Towing? (Peter Ogilvie)
  34. Re: Flat Towing? (asfco)
  35. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  36. RE: Flat Towing? (Brad Crittenden)
  37. Re: Flat Towing? (asfco)
  38. Re: Flat Towing? (N Forbes)
  39. Re: Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield? ([email-masked])
  40. Re: Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield? ([email-masked])
  41. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series ([email-masked])
  42. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Peter Ogilvie)
  43. Re: frosty cold (Peter Ogilvie)
  44. Re: New List Member, (Hope Peter)
  45. Re: A rover 'Jones' (Peter Ogilvie)
  46. Stuff MUST go!!!!! ([email-masked])
  47. Re: Re: A rover 'Jones' (Keith Tanner)
  48. Re: Re: A rover 'Jones' (Hope Peter)
  49. Re: Stuff MUST go!!!!! (Hope Peter)
  50. Re: Re: A rover 'Jones' (Hope Peter)
  51. Re: Re: A rover 'Jones' (Keith Tanner)
  52. Re: Stuff MUST go!!!!! ([email-masked])

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Message: 1
Subject: Re: [lro] heater blower alternatives ?
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:15:08 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Take the old motor along and match it up. Chevy blower motors I believe are
about the right size if not a bit longer - you'll need to reuse the
mounting plate.

                    ajr

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:37:17 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> 
> I was wondering about a second pair mounted almost horzontally front to
> rear.  Maybe even McPherson struts forward to back in order to tame the
> side to side twisting the rear axle does on rock crawling.  If you plan
> to go with taller tyres there is only so much space there. and it doesn't
> help if one tyre side is tyrning in & the other turning out if you use a
> lot of the clearence with tyre.  Thoughts?

How about a Panard Rod?
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:56 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] heater blower alternatives ?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 A motor and cage from a mid 80s front wheel drive GM will fit if you
open up the hole in the housing rather off centred to the outlet. This
will move about 200% more air than the original.
John and Muddy

Bill Fishel wrote:
> 
> Blower for the heater in the SIII is dead. Anybody know of a replacement I can use from a auto salvage yard that will fit in place of the original?
> Alternative is heater from a M37 24 volt system. Probably only run half speed on 12 volts. I'd like to get something cheap from a junkyard but not sure what to look for.
> 
> Bill Fishel
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "tim wadsworth" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:11:32 +0000
Subject: [lro] Re: Seatbelts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've been catching up with a fortnights worth of LRO listings so please 
forgive the delay in this submission. I noticed the posting requesting 
advice on seatbelts from a week or so ago. I have a 1980 SIII. When I bought 
it earlier this year, it came with two three point belts and a lap belt for 
the centre seat. I decided that the lap belt was not really up to the job of 
keeping my three year old from being impailed on the handbrake. I ended up 
replacing all three front belts with the budget four-point belts from 
Scorpion Racing www.scorpion-racing.co.uk at a cost of 28UKP about USD45 
each and look pretty good in red. They were fairly easy to install. The 
lower two straps bolt straight into the existing lower mounts. For the upper 
two straps, I drilled holes in the top lip of the rear bed bulkhead behind 
the seats.

I consider a four-point belt to be much safer as the upper body weight is 
distributed over two straps rather than one and both shoulders take the 
weight. Given that a SIII has no crumple zone to speak of, a higher 
percentage of the energy from any impact would be transmitted to the 
occupants than would be expected from a more modern saloon type vehicle. 
Should the vehicle roll over, a four point harness is more likely to stop 
the occupants from being thrown about (although I guess a good rollcage is 
needed there - next year's project perhaps?)

A further reason for using this set-up is that I want to replace the hard 
top with a canvas and so will lose the use of the upper inertia reel 
mounting point.

I hope this helps.

Tim Wadsworth
London

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--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:33:03 -0400
From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
Organization: Boston College
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] frosty cold
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I don't know what it it is but there is just something about having to
scrape the inside of your car that makes you feel cold.....One time I was
sleeping in a ski area (Jay Pealk - VT, USA) parking lot and a police
officer or security person came up and tried to see in with a big flashlight
at about 5AM. Of course he couldn't  see anything through the thick layer of
frost on the inside of the windows...
I opened a window about two inches in front of his face and he jumped about
six feet.....When he calmed down I apologized for startling him and asked
him if he knew what the forecast was....
Rob M

[email-masked] wrote:

> Peter Hope posted: <<Drove down to Ft Lewis...>>
>
> Brrrrrr.
> I endured Basic Training there during the winter of 1970.
> It only rained once.
> The entire time!
> Was never so wet and cold for so long.
>
> Been colder.  Nearly froze coming back on I-70 from a December trip into
> the Canyonlands of Utah about 25 years ago.
>
> Later discovered my Dormobile had a 160 thermostat.  With that and the
> pathetic shinburner heater and the natural ventillation sustem of an old
> Series IIa, it never got up to freezing inside the car.  Had to scrape
> frost from the inside of the windshield from Moab to Denver.
> At least I wasn't wet.
>
> Paul Donohue
> 1965 Land Rover 109
> Denver
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:11:28 -0500
Subject: [lro] Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

1. TAW mentioned modifying the cross member at the flywheel to allow for 
more articulation.  When I replaced the rear prop shaft bootie, the 
instructions stated that, for front shaft bootie placement, the crossmember 
can be "dished out".  Can I do that with the front prop dropped and my 
cheapo 4" angle grinder?  Without welding?  I'm not a part of the extreme 
angle club, but I noticed that the old bootie on the front has torn through 
at the spot where I'd expect the cross member to bite it.  It's pretty snug 
just resting on its old springs, I'd bet even closer if bounced or with a 
one side drop.

2. Now I'm paranoid again.  I don't think my truck had ever had a manifold 
heat shield as the mounts were filled and decayed when I mounted one.  I was 
trying to prevent heat to the cab.  My manifold was uncracked and I felt 
lucky.  Could it be more than luck?  Could it be that the absence of heat 
shield has saved my manifold?
Should I take it off??!!!??

-Rik
in Minnesota
1960 SWB SW

_________________________________________________________________
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Message: 7
From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:18:37 -0500
Subject: [lro] Fiddly Bits- interior- needed
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've noticed some strange missing parts from my old girl.

1. There's a flat bracked over the windscreen that meets a bracket for the 
headliner over most of my windscreen.  I am missing one.

2. One of the jumpseat bottoms has no hinge on either side.  I'd like to get 
it off the shelf and back in the truck.

Any one got these bits?

I'd be glad to pay postage + trouble fees.

-Rik
in Monnesota, USA
1960 SWB SW

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Message: 8
From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:19:10 -0500
Subject: [lro] Fiddly Bits- interior- needed
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've noticed some strange missing parts from my old girl.

1. There's a flat bracked over the windscreen that meets a bracket for the 
headliner over most of my windscreen.  I am missing one.

2. One of the jumpseat bottoms has no hinge on either side.  I'd like to get 
it off the shelf and back in the truck.  2 hinges?

Anyone got these bits?

I'd be glad to pay postage + trouble fees.

-Rik
in Minnesota, USA
1960 SWB SW

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 9
Subject: Re: [lro] Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield?
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:23:24 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 Could it be that the absence of heat
shield has saved my manifold?
Should I take it off??!!!??

-Rik

Actually, I think it is significant only further South than you and me. Mr.
Churchill has had his shield for 5 years and his manifold s as good as new
through WInters and Summers.

I think the best way to rule this is if you don't have a WInter, the shield
might be a bad idea....

                         ajr

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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:20:00 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Plating prices
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Terry Joyce" <[email-masked]> wrote
>Sandy, the price of LR parts here is a bit high, but there are a lot of
>small plating businesses here in Melbourne, so repair is quite feasible, I
>had the 8 front caliper pistons from a 110 county stripped and plated for
>around A$10 each a couple of years ago, new piston price quoted was A$85
>each.

Bonus!  This is a *great* price, like a fraction of the cost over here....

Cheers

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:20:02 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Alternative parts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mark  Love" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>The gasket between the carb and adapter was worn thin as tissue from the carb
>being loose at some point. After a quick disassembly and cleaning i still
hadn't >found anything suspect. Made a new gasket out of a LR oil filter
box (must stay >original) and re-installed the carb. 

Excellent!  Bodged, parsimonious AND original!  (Three highly-valued LR
traits.)  Gotta love that....next round's on me....

Cheers

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:10:47 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: brake drum removal
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Good Lord! you mean an "easy-out" actually worked!
Count yourself among the favoured few.
The rule of thumb usually is: if an easy-out will do the job you don't
needed it and if you really need it to work it will break, leaving you
worse off than before.

I'll second that.  I've never had an EZout work on anything for me.  I 
notice, however, that Sears is advertising a new device for removing 
stubborn screws.  It appears to be some sort of bit as opposed to 
the threaded EZout device.  Has anyone tried the Sears tool yet?  
I have a number of screws I'm someday going to have to remove from 
the teak trim on my trawler, and I know an EZout won't do it.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:19:27 -0700
Subject: [lro] Marin's modified Rover (was replacing starter motor)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re:  Replacing starter motor
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>Marin Wrote,"One of the first instructions in the "Remove" list for the
clutch
master cylinder on a LHD vehicle is "remove the left wing."  I did this
twice
before deciding there had to be a better way.  Installing a hinged panel in
the
top of the wing over the clutch master cylinder proved to be the solution."

>Everyone is thinking it, so I am writing it.  Marin, I think that you do
not
have a Land Rover any more, you have modified it so much.. ;-)

By my own definition of what constitutes a true Land Rover, you are correct.
When 
the speedometer/odometer gave up the ghost in the Yukon in 1977, I replaced
the 
whole instrument panel with a flat plate of aircraft aluminum and mounted
the 
tach and manifold pressure gauges there in place of the speedometer.  I kept
the 
fuel and temp combined gauge.  I moved all the light and wiper control 
switches to the center support in the dash.  I had previously made the 
wing panel I mentioned above.  Other than replacing the worn out 88 rear 
springs with 109 springs, the vehicle is basically stock outside of the dash

and wing panel.  But you're right, the factory didn't make it that way, so 
by the correct definition of a Land Rover, mine isn't anymore.  At best, 
it's a modified Land Rover, at worst it's a hybrid based on a Land Rover :-)

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88 (sort of)
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 14
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 01 09:29:54 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>The 109 shocks are canted forward possibly to tame the hop.  Doubt that the 
>fore and aft shock mounting is a cure all for axle hop as it has not been 
>universally adopted or even used on a majority of trucks.

I'm puzzled on this one too.  I've never been outside my 109 taking 
measurments as I drive.  My best guess is that the side to side twisting 
movement occurs when one side is climbing an obstical that the other side 
does not see. Or maybe hitting a smaller object that the other side does 
not see.  It does bring a 32 inch tyre forward to the edge of the wheel 
cutout.  If one were to have wider tyres or wheels with  more outward 
dishing to increase latteral stability one would either need to tame the 
twisting or cut the rear wheel cutouts larger.

>Anybody talking of adding somthing Tim has done to a stock Series truck is 
>probably wasting their effort.  Tim's trucks are RADICAL AND DESIGNED FOR 
>COMPETITION.  TAW and the Oregun crowd have more direct experience but I 
>wonder if they can actually be driven on the road at highway speeds. 

Timm almost never drives slower than 70 MPH on the freeway.  The 88 he 
had until recently had a two speed gearbox behind the gearbox and was 
still less than 3000 RPM at 75MPH.  I have been a passanger in that rig 
when he traveled on the freeway.  It felt very stable.

I understand he drives his radical series I 109 just the same way.  His 
suspension dsigns work just as well on road as off road.  Timm doesn't 
trailer his rigs and they are his daily ride.

> The 
>extreme articulation suspension must be exciting in a high side load 
>conditions without something to limit the travel.

There is hopefully always a limit to suspension travel but it is more 
than just that.

There is a number of factors involved: vehicle weight balance; dynamic 
centre of gravity from  side sway (which is why I do not believe in 
parabolic springs for off road use); center of gravity relation to center 
of roll height; width of the track and more.  I'm trying to gain some 
sort of understanding of how all these tie together and what affects what.

>As far as spring overs, WHY????

I've never seen an answer that would make me want to run right out and do 
one either.

I hear it is good for flat land mudding where you want big really wide 
tyres.  Or for people who drive bogs, swamps or deep streams a lot.  I've 
heard some say for extra clearence for big rocks and rock steps.  But 
considering how narrow the series track is I would worry about raising 
the centre of gravity too much for rock crawling.

 >Sticking 35" tires on a Series is problematical as 
>I wonder whether the 2 1/4 can twist that large a diameter tire.

The Rover factory did it with one tons but they did it with lower gearing 
and extended spring mounts plus a narrow 900X16.

> Articulation is the real Achilles Heel of the Series truck

Amen to that

>and can't be addressed, significantly, without lengthening the front springs.

There are a few things you can do first.  

- Reposition your shock mounts and install longer shocks.  
  THe front shock limits movement of all but rusted springs.

- Pick springs with the correct spring rate for the weight 
  each spring carries.  Too weak and you can break one.  
  Too heavy duty and you do not have the weight to flex them.  
  You want to pick springs that are at least 3/4 of the way 
  along the weight rating range towards their max off road 
  weight rating.

- Add high density low friction plastic strips between the 
  leaves to minimize leaf to leaf friction and allowing 
  maximum spring movment

- Go to longer shackles and relocate the rear frame mount
  if needed so that the longer shackle is about 45 degrees
  from vertical, top towards the axle.  As the axle drops
  the shackle swings down to vertical effectivly
  lenghtening the suspension height.  As an axle raises the
  shackle swings towards horixontal effectivly shortening
  the suspension height.

Longer springs is indeed the way to go beyond meximizing the existing 
ones.  So far I have seen 3 series rigs with 88 rear springs on the front 
including Timm's series I 109.  They place the front axle in the stock 
location, extend the frame front rail out a couple inches & add a new 
front spring mount and relocate the rear frame shackle mount.  Depending 
upon your front axle weight you pick the driver or passanger side rear 
spring to put under both sides of your front.  If the vehicle front 
weight is real light you remove a helper spring or two.

>If you want to go off road, try parabolics and maybe longer shackles.

Longer shackles if you have a static angle of 45 degrees or closer to 
horizontal yes.

Parabolics...I don't think so.  Parabolics are great for highway cruising 
or moderate speeds on maintained forest service roads.  But they 
radically decrease latteral stability and increases the dynamic center of 
gravity.  You are far more apt to lay the vehicle over on it's side or 
loose control trying to keep up with coilers on heavy washboard roads.  

>Someone mentioned raising the spring shackle mounting points as a way to 
>increase side load stability.

That was me.

>  For the life of me, I can't figure out how that would have any 
> effect, whatsoever. 

I'm still trying to understand this myself.  You have the centre of 
gravity and you have this other thing called the center of roll from 
which the body roll movment takes place.

The closer the center of gravity is to the center of roll the less 
outward body sway there is on corners.  When both centers conincide there 
is no roll, and as I understand it if the center of gravity is below the 
center of roll the body sway may actually be inwards instead of outwards 
on a curve.

If you look at a lot of big trailer rigs they have spring overs and long 
shackles mounted high.  I believe this is to minimize roll by raising the 
centre of roll closer to the centre of gravity.

I'm thinking that his could be a way to reduce the dynamic center of 
gravity and thus make the vehicle more stable going over obsticals on 
side slopes.

But this is a new concept to me and I need to understand it a whole lot 
better myself.  I'm throwing it out incase we have a real suspension 
engineer lurking on the list.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:33:27 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: Starter removal
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:56:49 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Starter removal
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Don't need to remove a thing.  Undo the connection and the two securing
bolts/nuts.  Slide the starter forward enough so it rests in the crook of
the downpipe.  (This assumes standard, Rover exhaust piping, not headers or
some such.)  The Dyer gear end will *just* clear the aperture in the
belhousing, allowing it to be swung upwards.

Maybe this works on your Land Rover, but it sure doesn't work 
on mine.  The pipe is squarely in front of the starter motor (stock 
exhaust manifold, no header) and the starter contacts the pipe
with at least half the Dyer gear end still in the hole.  It is virtually 
impossible to remove the starter without shifting the exhaust 
pipe to one side.  At least this is the case on my engine, and I 
don't know why or how mine would be any different from any 
other US-spec Series III.  There is not enough clearance 
between the downpipe and the engine block to admit the 
circumference of the starter motor, which is why the pipe 
has to be shifted sideways toward the block so the 
starter motor can be moved past the pipe on the outside.  
I'm not claiming there is no way to remove or reinstall the 
motor without loosening the pipe, but having just done this 
operation last weekend, and having spend a lot of time 
trying to worm that motor out and the new one in, I 
feel confident that, on my vehicle anyway, there is no 
way in hell to do the job without loosening the exhaust 
pipe.  If there was, you would think Land Rover would 
have described it in the manual instead of instructing you 
to loosen the exhaust pipe.

Now I'm talking about the stock starter here.  There may 
be aftermarket starters that aren't as long, and these may 
indeed be easy to remove without loosening the exhaust.

The heat riser around the top of the exhaust pipe brings 
the carburetor to temperature 
faster, which lets you shut off the choke quicker.  As such, it 
seems to be a useful item, although removing it shouldn't make 
any difference to the overall operation of the engine.  I still have 
the original exhaust manifold on my engine, and so far have not 
experienced that the riser contributes to manifold cracking.

Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

--__--__--

Message: 16
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 01 09:37:09 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>How about a Panard Rod?

I've never understod them there things. What is the theory and practice 
with them?

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:29:01 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW,
    Is there anywhere that one can glean more detailed information or
pictures of Timm's vehicles?  While I expected to hear they were amazing off
road, I didn't expect to hear you rate so highly their stability at speed.
I would be very interested in knowing more.  While I don't plan on ever
turning my LR into as serious a rig as his, I would love to learn about it.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:30:18 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Panhard Rod?  Why not a 3-link system?  I thought they allowed better
movement in a leaf sprung set-up.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 19
Subject: Re: [lro] Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 01 09:49:39 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Can I do that with the front prop dropped and my cheapo 4" angle grinder?  
Without welding?

Yes and no.

The simplest way to do it is:

You mark where your front prop shaft goes over the cross member.  Get out 
your grinder and make a half moon cut along the front of the crossmember 
that goes about 3/4 way down from the top and is somewhat wider than your 
prop shaft.

You get a big hammer and whack the now unsupported top front  of the 
frame  down to meet the cut out and reweld.

I'm sure some people get fancy and make a top cut too and weld in a 
formed round section into the diagonol cut.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: brodie Pedersen <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] New List Member,
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Greetings and salutations,

My name is Brodie Pedersen, I live in West Vancouver
B.C. and I am currently building up an Air
Transportable  Lightweight.  The truck is a bitsa
truck having been built up from about 10 seperate 88's
and about three Lightweigh ts.

I am hoping to have a rolling chassis with
transmission installed by the end of this month.
Progress over the past week has been slow do to a sore
back, but I have all of the components either rebuilt,
or repainted and ready to go. 

The trucks highl ights will include Parabolic
suspension,Turbo Diesel engine, 130 wheels, and
station wagon rear. I am also tempted to use a 110
truck cab with a 3/4 soft top.  For now though I am
concentrating on getting the rolling chassis together
and running gear installed.  

So far I have rebuilt both axles,  painted the frame
(both inside and out) with 2 part epoxy,and installed
new frame bushes.  My transmission is being rebuilt by
a friend and the engine is sitting on an engine stand
awaiting the installation of a newly rebuilt turbo and
conversion kit.   

 I am going to be installing a Peugeot 2.5 l Turbo
Diesel using a Steve Parker conversion kit. This
engine will produce about 95 hp which I think will
complement the standard IIa "d" series transmission. I
wo uld also like to install a Chrysler 2.2 intercooler
which should boost the power up to around 110 which is
what the intercooled European version of this engine
produced. I may also consider buying a 200 TDI
Radiator as well, as a means to have a neatly in
tegrated intercooler. 

For now though I am going to install the engine
without an intercooler as the funds for such a set up
can be put to better use elsewhere, and I may be
content with the simpler set up anyway. 

My main reason for choosing the Peugeo t motor was
mainly that they are inexpensive, light and that the
conversion kit is very well though out. There is no
butchery involved, and Peugeot parts can be sourced
through North American based specialists. This means
that parts availability is only slightly more 
aggravating than Rover parts. ( Besides how many of
you buy your engine parts from a Land Rover dealer
anyway) ; - )

I am hoping to have the truck up and running come May.

Cheers

Brodie

n

=====
SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIUM ERUDITIONIS HABES
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:54:53 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

welcome Brodie, from a UK list member.
 Good choice for engine kit, Steve Parker is a  good friend of mine.

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+            
     I !__|  [_]|_\___   
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV 
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

--__--__--

Message: 22
Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:12:39 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Steve Parker is a  good friend of mine.

Best Cheers

Frank

Is there anyone you DON'T know? 8)

               ajr

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:46:48 -0600
From: Jeremy <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco question
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Got a source for 'em?

Frank Elson enlightened recipients with the following on 17Oct2001:
> 
> you write: >>>because some of the HT
> > leads were falling apart.  Recrimped, happy again.  Need Bosch
> replacements
> > though..)<<<
> 
> nah, try Magnacor (sp?)
> 
> Best Cheers
> 
> Frank
>     +--+--+--+
>      I !__|  [_]|_\___
>      I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
>      "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

-- 
jeremy  - '94 Disco NAS "RTFM"

--__--__--

Message: 24
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:53:40 -0600
From: Jeremy <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] HT leads
Reply-To: [email-masked]

People picky at all about spark plugs?  I generally just buy some of the
nice bosch "platnum" or whatever.  They're like $2 each, and work well.
Tried some of their "4xPlatnum" -- had 4 hooks over the spark gap.  Didn't
really get a chance to notice a difference, since this is when I found a HT
lead that had burst through the side.  Oops.  wasted plugs -- I didn't have
time to clean them, I didn't want to keep driving on 7 cylinders..

-- 
Jeremy - '94 Disco NAS "RTFM"

A. P. (Sandy) Grice enlightened recipients with the following on 17Oct2001:
> 
> >Jeremy <[email-masked]> wrote
> >Handy too, was in the middle of the wilderness up in very
> >northern idaho, and the car was chugging along (because some of the HT
> >leads were falling apart.  Recrimped, happy again.  Need Bosch replacements
> >though..)
> 
> Nah...go Magnecor.  *Perfect* fit...and inexpensive.  Also bought a set for
> the 2.25 motor.
> 
> "Try it.  You'll like it...."
> 
> Cheers

--__--__--

Message: 25
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:26:03 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

A Watts linkage (3 link) provides a truly vertical restraint of the axle,
whereas the panhard rod moves the axle through an arc. A 44" panhard rod
moving through 12" vertical travel will push and pull the axle sideways
through less than 1/2. The springs should accommodate this lateral motion (1
0.22")with ease, especially parabolics. The Panhard rod will be much less
prone to damage off road and has only two bearings instead of five.

I have asked this question before with regard to parabolics. Should we use
anti-tramp (traction) bars and a panhard rod on both axles because of the
added flexibility of the springs? Thus getting even better performance (?)
on and off road.

Trevor

-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Hillman [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:30 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series

Panhard Rod?  Why not a 3-link system?  I thought they allowed better
movement in a leaf sprung set-up.

Kirk
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:30:50 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Starter removal
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If you turn the steering wheel so that the steering box drop arm is all
the way forward the starter will just tuck in below it. This will then
allow you to turn the drive end down and manoeuvre the starter down and
out.
John and Muddy 

"Faure, Marin" wrote:

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: Mattias Boström <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:58:21 +0200
Subject: [lro] Land Rover Trek?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Cheers!

I would like to know if anyone have or know where I could get a video from
the "Land Rover Trek 2000". It was an article about it in the february issue
of LRO this year. I would have to get it in the European standard since I
live in Sweden. I could also have use of pictures from the same event
especially from the test drive course.

Thank you all in advance.
The drinks would be on me for some time if I get a hold of this...

Best Regards
Mattias Bostrom
S.L.R.K #1329
Land Rover 90" -98 Tdi CSW
BMW 528i Touring
home page: http://user.tninet.se/~vwu213j
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: 18 Oct 2001 12:18:07 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 18 October 2001, brodie Pedersen wrote:
 
> Greetings and salutations,
 
>My name is Brodie Pedersen, I live in >West Vancouver
>B.C. and I am currently building up an >Air Transportable  Lightweight.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah....you're not new to me :)

Welcome to the list.

Bryan

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

--__--__--

Message: 29
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:41:28 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW,
    I just read this article, it refers to Ford Rangers specifically, but I
think the idea you were talking about is there.  Reversing the mounting
points of the shackles seems to make sense.  Unfortunately there are no
pictures with the article.

http://www.off-road.com/prerocker/fmi/shackle/shackle.html

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 30
From: "fulcrum5" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:38:27 -0400
Subject: [lro] Flat Towing?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I'm planning a short move of about 20 miles, and need to move the old girl.
She is still in project stage, but is a roller. A friend has loaned me the
use of a towing bracket that clamps to the front bumper. My question is -
can I tow it "as is", or do I need to tie down the steering wheel in some
way. The bulkhead and steering gear are still in place and functioning. I
recall this being covered before, but can't remember the general consensus,
so I apologize for my forgetfulness. I tried, but I can't seem to locate any
info on this in my manual, or the green bible. I'm trying to save money
here, or I'd just rent a trailer. Thanks in advance for any info!

John K. Rayl
1967 IIa 88"

--__--__--

Message: 31
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:20:59 -0400
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Brake drum
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jeff writes
Any hints or techniques that might work in the removal of three very
solidly
seated brake drum nuts?  Got the other three off, but the right rear
isn't
going anywhere in this lifetime.

 I assume you mean the countersunk screws,
 There are several options, ranging from the use of a chisel, through
drilling the heads off.  Alternatively take the complete hub and brake
drum assembly off as a unit.

Regards from Western New York State

  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 32
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:32:38 -0400
From: asfco <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] wheel stud thread size
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Anyone know for sure the size of the wheel stud thread?
I beleive it is 9/16 x 16 BSF
can anyone confirm this?
Thanks
Rgds
Steve Bradke '68 lla 88

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:40:08 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

As long as the steering is still intact, you can flat tow it going forward 
with the steering free to follow the proper path.  Locking the steering 
wheel causes all sorts of problems as the wheels don't follow the path of 
the truck in turns or even in a straight line.  Backing up is another story 
as the wheels tend to flop to one side or the other.  Design your tow so you 
don't have to back up or have a bunch of helpers who can push the truck 
backwards or, at the least, steer the towed truck in reverse.

Be sure the ball on your hitch is on real tight with a lock washer and 
LocTite or, preferably, welded.  I nearly lost my 109 to a loosened tow ball 
and there is someone on the list who got to wave at his 109 on a trailer as 
it passed him.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "fulcrum5" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: [lro] Flat Towing?
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:38:27 -0400
>
>
>I'm planning a short move of about 20 miles, and need to move the old girl.
>She is still in project stage, but is a roller. A friend has loaned me the
>use of a towing bracket that clamps to the front bumper. My question is -
>can I tow it "as is", or do I need to tie down the steering wheel in some
>way. The bulkhead and steering gear are still in place and functioning. I
>recall this being covered before, but can't remember the general consensus,
>so I apologize for my forgetfulness. I tried, but I can't seem to locate 
>any
>info on this in my manual, or the green bible. I'm trying to save money
>here, or I'd just rent a trailer. Thanks in advance for any info!
>
>John K. Rayl
>1967 IIa 88"
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 34
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:47:26 -0400
From: asfco <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

fulcrum5 wrote:

> I'm planning a short move of about 20 miles, and need to move the old girl.
> She is still in project stage, but is a roller. A friend has loaned me the
> use of a towing bracket that clamps to the front bumper. My question is -
> can I tow it "as is", or do I need to tie down the steering wheel in some
> way. The bulkhead and steering gear are still in place and functioning. I
> recall this being covered before, but can't remember the general consensus,
> so I apologize for my forgetfulness. I tried, but I can't seem to locate any
> info on this in my manual, or the green bible. I'm trying to save money
> here, or I'd just rent a trailer. Thanks in advance for any info!
>
> John K. Rayl
> 1967 IIa 88"
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

Transfer case in Neutral ...Transmission in 4th gear
20 miles will be no problem
Rgds
Steve Bradke '68 lla 88

--__--__--

Message: 35
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 01 14:52:52 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>TAW,
>    I just read this article, it refers to Ford Rangers specifically, but I
>think the idea you were talking about is there.  Reversing the mounting
>points of the shackles seems to make sense. 

This is what I'm getting at.  But I would like to understand the physics 
behind it better.  

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 36
From: "Brad Crittenden" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Flat Towing?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:56:03 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

steve:  why put the transmission in 4th?

curious,
brad

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
Of asfco
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:47 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?

Transfer case in Neutral ...Transmission in 4th gear
20 miles will be no problem
Rgds
Steve Bradke '68 lla 88
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 37
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:03:35 -0400
From: asfco <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Brad Crittenden wrote:

> steve:  why put the transmission in 4th?
>
> curious,
> brad
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of asfco
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:47 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?
>
> Transfer case in Neutral ...Transmission in 4th gear
> 20 miles will be no problem
> Rgds
> Steve Bradke '68 lla 88
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

at the moment I cant exactly remember the rationale behind this but I am
sure someone out there can explain as to why
Rgds
Steve

--__--__--

Message: 38
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Flat Towing?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:19:12 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Because the instructions say so on the little plate riveted onto the 
bulkhead. As I recall it has something to do with the resistance of fourth 
stopping on the shafts from rotating and wearing bearings or some such. 
Anyway, the important thing is that I believe it has been determined that 
with the tranny in neutral you are in four wheel drive so this won't work on 
a tow dolly but is fine for flat towing.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 39
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:33:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield?
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If you want a high tech fix,  Techline Coatings  CBC is a ceramic thermal
barier coating that can be applied and cured  by the consumer.  If it
were applied only to the inside of the manafold it wouldn't show and
would keep the iron cooler.  If you didn't care, coat the inside and out
and with the heat shield you would realy cut raidiation.  I have no facts
to back this up but my gut feeling is that inner and outter caotings cut
thermal flow by 10% at a D

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:23:24 -0400 "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus"
<[email-masked]> writes:
> 
>  Could it be that the absence of heat
> shield has saved my manifold?
> Should I take it off??!!!??
> 
> -Rik
> 
> Actually, I think it is significant only further South than you and 
> me. Mr.
> Churchill has had his shield for 5 years and his manifold s as good 
> as new
> through WInters and Summers.
> 
> I think the best way to rule this is if you don't have a WInter, the 
> shield
> might be a bad idea....
> 
>                          ajr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 40
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:42:41 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Crossmember Mod/  Manifold Heat shield?
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

If you want a high tech cure, Techline Coatings CBC is a ceramic thermal
barrier coating designed for piston tops combustion chamber roofs and
exhaust ports. It can be applied and cured by the consumer.  If it was
applied only to the inside then no one would know.  If you didn't care
then inside outside and the heat shield and you have cut radiation about
all you can.  I have no facts to support me , but my gut feeling is that
an inner and outer coating will cut thermal flow about 10% at a delta of
1000 deg. F.  I have no operational experience with it I have used it in
my hybrid motor but that is still months away from running.  The stuff is
surprisingly cheep.  

Chris hall
On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:23:24 -0400 "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus"
<[email-masked]> writes:
> 
>  Could it be that the absence of heat
> shield has saved my manifold?
> Should I take it off??!!!??
> 
> -Rik
> 
> Actually, I think it is significant only further South than you and 
> me. Mr.
> Churchill has had his shield for 5 years and his manifold s as good 
> as new
> through WInters and Summers.
> 
> I think the best way to rule this is if you don't have a WInter, the 
> shield
> might be a bad idea....
> 
>                          ajr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 41
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:27:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TeriAnn,  Here is my take on it.  Moving roll center (RC) closer to
center of gravity (CG) reduces body roll it increases weight transfer to
the out side tire in a turn, making  a roll over more likely and removing
the telltale lean.  Body roll is a good thing in that it lets the
suspension keep the inside tires loaded.  Body lean and roll over
tendency are not closely related as both are center of force to center of
resistance propertys and the center of force in both is CG but center of
resistance in body lean is the roll axis ( Front and rear roll centers
define an axis), for roll over the center of resistance are the tire
contact patches.  

While not the same a very similar decision came up on a kart board that
might help you.
 http://www.ekartingnews.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9
&t=000047
Scroll down to John Learmonth reply.  

Chris Hall

>  For the life of me, I can't figure out how that would have any 
> effect, whatsoever. 
 
I'm still trying to understand this myself.  You have the centre of 
gravity and you have this other thing called the center of roll from 
which the body roll movment takes place.

The closer the center of gravity is to the center of roll the less 
outward body sway there is on corners.  When both centers conincide there

is no roll, and as I understand it if the center of gravity is below the 
center of roll the body sway may actually be inwards instead of outwards 
on a curve.
 
If you look at a lot of big trailer rigs they have spring overs and long 
shackles mounted high.  I believe this is to minimize roll by raising the

centre of roll closer to the centre of gravity.
 
I'm thinking that his could be a way to reduce the dynamic center of 
gravity and thus make the vehicle more stable going over obsticals on 
side slopes.
 
But this is a new concept to me and I need to understand it a whole lot 
better myself.  I'm throwing it out incase we have a real suspension 
engineer lurking on the list.

--__--__--

Message: 42
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:49:10 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW wrote:  >Parabolics...I don't think so.  Parabolics are great for 
highway cruising or moderate speeds on maintained forest service roads.  But 
they radically decrease latteral stability and increases the dynamic center 
of gravity.  You are far more apt to lay the vehicle over on it's side or 
loose control trying to keep up with coilers on heavy washboard roads.

I've had just the opposite experience.  I've been trying to make my trucks 
lean with parabolics and it's just not happening.  The 109 actually feels 
more stable in a turn than my Mercedes and corners flat.  The 88 also leans 
less with parabolics than it did with stock leafs.  Off road, especially on 
washboard roads, control is greatly increased with Parabolics and good 
shocks.  Where the stock sprung truck had extreme problems with axle tramp, 
the parabolic truck's axle stayed in contact with the road and easily stayed 
in control.  The parabolics were also much more stable than a leaf sprung CJ 
and a short wheelbase Land Cruiser.  The parabolics are only slightly better 
than stock on the road, its in the dirt where they really shine.  Stock 
springs are brutal off road, the parabolics take the edges off the rocks.  
You don't get the crash, bang of stock springs.  The one place I'd want to 
explore is control of axle wind up.  It would stand to reason that it would 
be more likely to happen with parabolics though I haven't seen it in real 
life.

OEM shocks with 1" extended drop don't restrict articulation, at least at 
the front, under static conditions.  As TAW points out, Static and real life 
may not be very closely related, however.  Has anyone built a shock tower 
and put a truly long shock on the front of a stock length, leaf sprung 
Series???  Would be interesting to see if it had any real life effect.

TAW,  Mahalo for the explanation of the benefit of raising the pivot point 
of the springs.  Still can't figure out the why, however.  Will have to 
cogitate on it for a while.  Enlightenment on such concepts typically comes 
at 3am out of a sound sleep.

To get long travel, you need relatively soft springs and, of course, the 
ability of the axle to move over long distances.  This translates into lots 
of body roll in turns.  The older RRs, without anti sway/roll bars are an 
example.  You can drive one of these at 90mph but a 35mph turn can be very 
interesting. Find it hard to believe that this wouldn't have the same 
effect, only carried to the extreme, by the long travel suspension on one of 
Tim's trucks.  Can see those who claim parabolics allow too much body sway, 
being totally bonkers in one of Tim's trucks.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>
> >Someone mentioned raising the spring shackle mounting points as a way to
> >increase side load stability.
>
>That was me.
>
> >  For the life of me, I can't figure out how that would have any
> > effect, whatsoever.
>
>I'm still trying to understand this myself.  You have the centre of
>gravity and you have this other thing called the center of roll from
>which the body roll movment takes place.
>
>
>The closer the center of gravity is to the center of roll the less
>outward body sway there is on corners.  When both centers conincide there
>is no roll, and as I understand it if the center of gravity is below the
>center of roll the body sway may actually be inwards instead of outwards
>on a curve.
>
>If you look at a lot of big trailer rigs they have spring overs and long
>shackles mounted high.  I believe this is to minimize roll by raising the
>centre of roll closer to the centre of gravity.
>
>I'm thinking that his could be a way to reduce the dynamic center of
>gravity and thus make the vehicle more stable going over obsticals on
>side slopes.
>
>But this is a new concept to me and I need to understand it a whole lot
>better myself.  I'm throwing it out incase we have a real suspension
>engineer lurking on the list.
>
>TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
>Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW -
>[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message
>
>http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman
>
>"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
>Amelia Earhart 1898-1937
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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Message: 43
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] frosty cold
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:56:49 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I drove into Steamboat from the west once.  At about 3am, the truck began to 
ice up on the inside of the windshield.  Thought there was someting wrong 
with the heater which is pretty hard to have happen on a '73 VW bus.  Pulled 
into a gas station and asked the attendant if he knew anything about VW 
heaters as I thought mine had gone south.  He nearly fell on the ground 
laughing and pointed at the big thermometer on the front of the station.  It 
read 35 below.  But it was a dry cold.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: [lro] frosty cold
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:33:03 -0400
>
>
>I don't know what it it is but there is just something about having to
>scrape the inside of your car that makes you feel cold.....One time I was
>sleeping in a ski area (Jay Pealk - VT, USA) parking lot and a police
>officer or security person came up and tried to see in with a big 
>flashlight
>at about 5AM. Of course he couldn't  see anything through the thick layer 
>of
>frost on the inside of the windows...
>I opened a window about two inches in front of his face and he jumped about
>six feet.....When he calmed down I apologized for startling him and asked
>him if he knew what the forecast was....
>Rob M
>
>[email-masked] wrote:
>
> > Peter Hope posted: <<Drove down to Ft Lewis...>>
> >
> > Brrrrrr.
> > I endured Basic Training there during the winter of 1970.
> > It only rained once.
> > The entire time!
> > Was never so wet and cold for so long.
> >
> > Been colder.  Nearly froze coming back on I-70 from a December trip into
> > the Canyonlands of Utah about 25 years ago.
> >
> > Later discovered my Dormobile had a 160 thermostat.  With that and the
> > pathetic shinburner heater and the natural ventillation sustem of an old
> > Series IIa, it never got up to freezing inside the car.  Had to scrape
> > frost from the inside of the windshield from Moab to Denver.
> > At least I wasn't wet.
> >
> > Paul Donohue
> > 1965 Land Rover 109
> > Denver
> > _______________________________________________
> > LRO mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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Message: 44
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:55:46 -0700
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
Reply-To: [email-masked]

brodie Pedersen wrote:

> Greetings and salutations,
>
> My name is Brodie Pedersen, I live in West Vancouver
> B.C. and I am currently building up an Air
> Transportable  Lightweight.  The truck is a bitsa
> truck having been built up from about 10 seperate 88's
> and about three Lightweigh ts.
>

Aloha and welcome to the list.
I am down in the Seattle area.  Let me know if you end up with enough
spare body panels for a second light wieght and I am sure I can find a
use for em :-)
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 45
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:04:44 -1000
Subject: [lro] Re: A rover 'Jones'
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter H.

oh!! we do have a 'jones' for the Series trucks.  A 110 limo on the way and 
now a Light Weight.  A 101 can't be far in the future.  What comes after 
that???  Are you looking for a one bedroom house on an acre with a 10 car 
garage???

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:55:46 -0700
>
>
>brodie Pedersen wrote:
>
> > Greetings and salutations,
> >
> > My name is Brodie Pedersen, I live in West Vancouver
> > B.C. and I am currently building up an Air
> > Transportable  Lightweight.  The truck is a bitsa
> > truck having been built up from about 10 seperate 88's
> > and about three Lightweigh ts.
> >
>
>Aloha and welcome to the list.
>I am down in the Seattle area.  Let me know if you end up with enough
>spare body panels for a second light wieght and I am sure I can find a
>use for em :-)
>Pete
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
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--__--__--

Message: 46
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:07:55 EDT
From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Stuff MUST go!!!!!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Have way too much rover crap.  need to get rid of it to finance the more important parts of the "project".  

88" front axle:  complete with all internals, one EXCELLENT swivel, parts to replace other, sandblasted painted gloss black- $400

88" rear axle: complete drum to drum, reinforcing part on housing cut off sloppily with angle grinder, will include additional 88" axle housing- $300

Bunch of Transmissions/transfer cases- condition unknown, inquire for suffixes.  sold as units of trans and case- $200

pair of brand new 88" front springs, genuine from rovers north, never run on the road, no significant wieght ever put on them (just rolling chassis assembled)- $175/pair

two 2.25 engines (gas)- one turns over with hand crank, other doesnt.  otherwise condition unknown- $200 and $300

all rover body parts available- standard 88" roof panels, need paint- $150 each (many available)
SW roof sides- tracks in great shape, glass good, need paint- $150/pair
a few SIIA 88" bulkheads- all good for core or rebuild only!!!  $125 each
Early SIIA wings, complete need paint, but perf. straight-$100 each

Series differentials!  keep a spare (or two at this price!!!)  all in good condition, mileages vary- $100 each, many available!

all rover axle internals, shafts, spindles, etc! prices vary, please email.

etc etc etc!!!!  email for additional needs, all parts available!!  willing to deal, this stuff needs to be GONE by the end of november!!

adam

--__--__--

Message: 47
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:05:11 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: A rover 'Jones'
Reply-To: [email-masked]

No, all you need is a field. Rovers can live outside (especially in 
Hawaii!) and you can sleep in your 101 Ambulance.

Keith

At 17:04 10/18/01, you wrote:

>Peter H.
>
>oh!! we do have a 'jones' for the Series trucks.  A 110 limo on the way 
>and now a Light Weight.  A 101 can't be far in the future.  What comes 
>after that???  Are you looking for a one bedroom house on an acre with a 
>10 car garage???
>
>Aloha
>Peter Ogilvie
>Kona Coffee Rover
>1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
>     from exposure of the dark side.
>1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
>1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
>196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
>     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust
>
>
>
>>From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
>>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>>To: [email-masked]
>>Subject: Re: [lro] New List Member,
>>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:55:46 -0700
>>
>>
>>brodie Pedersen wrote:
>>
>> > Greetings and salutations,
>> >
>> > My name is Brodie Pedersen, I live in West Vancouver
>> > B.C. and I am currently building up an Air
>> > Transportable  Lightweight.  The truck is a bitsa
>> > truck having been built up from about 10 seperate 88's
>> > and about three Lightweigh ts.
>> >
>>
>>Aloha and welcome to the list.
>>I am down in the Seattle area.  Let me know if you end up with enough
>>spare body panels for a second light wieght and I am sure I can find a
>>use for em :-)
>>Pete
>>_______________________________________________
>>LRO mailing list
>>[email-masked]
>>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 48
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: A rover 'Jones'
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:28:51 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Peter H.
>
> oh!! we do have a 'jones' for the Series trucks.  A 110 limo on the way
and
> now a Light Weight.  A 101 can't be far in the future.  What comes after
> that???  Are you looking for a one bedroom house on an acre with a 10 car
> garage???
>

10 car garage...no..3000sf shop yes :-)
101..don't think so.
I want the 88, SWMBOs 110, a coiled light weight, and a 130 crew cab dormo
conversion.

88 is my daily, 110 is hers.  130 is for trips, towing the lightwieght.

Oh and we want about 10 acres.  An orchard with a 4x4 track running around
the perimeter.

Pete

--__--__--

Message: 49
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Stuff MUST go!!!!!
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:30:10 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Aloha,
where is the stuff?
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 50
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: A rover 'Jones'
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:31:15 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> No, all you need is a field. Rovers can live outside (especially in
> Hawaii!) and you can sleep in your 101 Ambulance.
>
> Keith

Ahh, yer behind the time Keith, left HI 30 days ago.  Now living in the land
of rain, and rain.  Bremerton Washington.  :-)
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 51
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:42:23 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: A rover 'Jones'
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Well, then you'll need a heater in the Ambulance :)

Keith

At 17:31 10/18/01, you wrote:

> > No, all you need is a field. Rovers can live outside (especially in
> > Hawaii!) and you can sleep in your 101 Ambulance.
> >
> > Keith
>
>Ahh, yer behind the time Keith, left HI 30 days ago.  Now living in the land
>of rain, and rain.  Bremerton Washington.  :-)
>Pete
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 52
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:55:14 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Stuff MUST go!!!!!
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

stuffs all in massachusetts.  heavy and large stuff lieks axles must be picked up.

adam

--__--__--

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