Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #124 - 45 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:20:08 -0400 (EDT)

Send LRO mailing list submissions to
	[email-masked]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	[email-masked]

You can reach the person managing the list at
	[email-masked]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of LRO digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. aeroparts capstan winch (aaron)
   2. Re: Re-chroming (Terry Joyce)
   3. Re: Fried ammeter (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
   4. Re: Brakes:  converting from a single-circuit, non-servo (John Cranfield)
   5. Re: brake drum removal... (John Cranfield)
   6. Re: Parts wanted (Mark  Love)
   7. Re: brake drum removal... (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
   8. Re: brake drum removal... (RON WARD)
   9. Re: brake drum removal... (Paul Oxley)
  10. Re: brake drum removal... (Rob MacCormick)
  11. Re: brake drum removal... (David Scheidt)
  12. Re: brake drum removal... (David Scheidt)
  13. Re: brake drum removal... (Jeff Bieler)
  14. Re: Trakkers Trim, the Best Customer Service on both
       sides of theAtlantic ([email-masked])
  15. Re: Fried ammeter (Jeff Bieler)
  16. Re: aeroparts capstan winch (Andrew Nordby)
  17. Re: Fried ammeter (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  18. Re: Warn Hubs (Bill Adams)
  19. Re: brake drum removal... ([email-masked])
  20. Re: Re: Seattle area scales (Hope Peter)
  21. Re: Fried ammeter (Jeff Bieler)
  22. Re: Fried ammeter (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  23. Re: aeroparts capstan winch (Keith Tanner)
  24. Re: worth fighting for... (Tim Czajka)
  25. Re: Spring over swap for a Series (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  26. Re:  Replacing starter motor (Faure, Marin)
  27. Remember the mystery diff? (Keith Tanner)
  28. Re: Re:  Replacing starter motor (Mark Pilkington)
  29. Airplane paint (was Seattle scales) (Faure, Marin)
  30. HT leads (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  31. Starter removal (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  32. Stunts (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
  33. Re: brake drum removal... (Faure, Marin)
  34. Re: Fried ammeter (Jeff Bieler)
  35. Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Tim Czajka)
  36. Re: Disco question (Frank Elson)
  37. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Kirk Hillman)
  38. Re: Bulkhead Draft/ top end speed (Mark  Love)
  39. Re: Seattle area scales ([email-masked])
  40. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  41. heater blower alternatives ? (Bill Fishel)
  42. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Peter Ogilvie)
  43. Re: Re: Spring over swap for a Series (Kirk Hillman)
  44. Re: heater blower alternatives ? (Jim Hall)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:33:34 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: aaron <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] aeroparts capstan winch
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Andrew,
WiseOwlParts.Com makes new replacement parts for the aeroparts 
capstan winch, including the drive shaft. I searched for a year 
before I found this out. I hope it helps and I think would be cheaper 
than fabing them unless you have the tools. I believe I paid around 
$50 for the drive shaft.

Aaron
69 88 in 1000 pieces

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Terry Joyce" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re-chroming
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:32:58 +1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

You might be right Bill,but when I did that job I was real short of money
(Still am), but I also still get a buzz out of getting the maximum life out
of a piece of machinery, altho I wouldnt bother with epoxy type fixes. Also
you can specify more chrome thickness than the original, that might be why
those S1 balls are still OK now, they have had their fair share of sand, mud
and sea salt.
Sandy, the price of LR parts here is a bit high, but there are a lot of
small plating businesses here in Melbourne, so repair is quite feasible, I
had the 8 front caliper pistons from a 110 county stripped and plated for
around A$10 each a couple of years ago, new piston price quoted was A$85
each.
Doing without the vehicle is always the biggest problem, you're right there
Bill.

Rover on..
Terry

--__--__--

Message: 3
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:36:30 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Fried ammeter with a side of calamari....yum! 8)

OK, a few things:

Does it still move? If so, then Bob's yer uncle.

What you need to do is replace the burnt wire that's in there. The wire
generates a magnetic field that makes the vane move.

Simply put, measure the wire as it sits and cut a piece of the same length
(it's basically a square-cornered loop between the connectors).Note, this
needs to be of the same diameter to retain anything vaguely resembling
calibration.  Cut the old wire out of the forks the ends were in, open the
forks up slightly and install the new wire, aligning and placing it as the
old was. Solder the connections - the old were pressure crimps.

You're done.

               ajr

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:29:08 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Brakes:  converting from a single-circuit, non-servo
Reply-To: [email-masked]

For many years Candian Tire DOT3 was OK for Land Rover use But when the
packaging changed I suspected a change of supplier and did some tests by
soaking a brake cylinder rebuild kit in the new fluid. Sure enough it
ate the rubber. I haven't tested the DOT4 but it sounds like
it is worth a try.
John and Muddy 

Keith Tanner wrote:
> 
> And I must report that cheap Canadian Tire DOT 4 seems to be working just
> fine after about 6 months use in Basil.
> 
> Keith
> 
> At 11:40 10/16/01, you wrote:
> 
> >A sudden and complete failure after a rebuild of the system makes me
> >wonder what fluid you used.
> >Ordinary DOT3 and DOT4 can eat the seals in short order.
> >However Castrol GT LMA has proven safe to use.
> >John and Muddy
> >
> >Brad Crittenden wrote:
> > >
> > > All:
> > >
> > > I have a '75 Series III 88" RHD diesel with a single-circuit, non-server
> > > (booster) brake system.  It recently suffered a sudden and complete failure
> > > of the brakes.  The cause has not yet been determined but the entire system
> > > is going to be re-done to restore it to a safe, functioning system.
> > >
> > > Since I will be doing a complete overhaul, I was wondering about converting
> > > to a dual-circuit system with a servo.  Is it a simple matter of removing
> > > the old master cylinder, adding the servo and new master cylinder, and
> > > running the new required lines?  Has anyone done this?  Are there other
> > > issues?  Is it worth the trouble and expense?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any help you might offer.
> > >
> > > --Brad
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > LRO mailing list
> > > [email-masked]
> > > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> 
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
>     http://keith.miata.net
> ------------
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:46:05 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"William J. Rice" wrote:
 and
> then use an EZ out--they came right out that way for me.

Good Lord! you mean an "easy-out" actually worked!
Count yourself among the favoured few.
The rule of thumb usually is: if an easy-out will do the job you don't
needed it and if you really need it to work it will break, leaving you
worse off than before.
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Mark  Love" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Parts wanted
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:21:13 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Mark, I'm looking for a ser l 88"  bonnet. Don't know if all wheelbases used the same length bonnet,
i can measure it though. Mark Love

--__--__--

Message: 7
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:24:43 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Re: EZ-out:

THose spiral mostrosities are Hellspawn.....

If you MUST use a tool like this get the straight-flute ones. Pound the
damn thing in to seat it, then pop it out and hand-insert it to take the
stretch out of the offending bolt remains.

Personally I hate the damn things and never use them. I'd rather drill and
retap if necessary.

As far as the flathead bolts go in the brake drums, my favorite trick is to
put a blunted chisel on the slot and tap them around with a hammmer. Think
of it as a poor man's impact screwdriver.

Y'know, I really do need to buy one of those someday...

                    ajr

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:19:44 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Brake drum nuts?  You mean the flat headed securing screws in the face of each drum?  If you're talking about my old IIa, the only ones that I didn't drill out are on the passenger rear wheel.  Anyway, drill them out.

Ron

>>> [email-masked] 10/16/01 04:02PM >>>

Any hints or techniques that might work in the removal of three very solidly
seated brake drum nuts?  Got the other three off, but the right rear isn't
going anywhere in this lifetime.

Jeff
1965IIA
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:28:08 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:
 
> THose spiral mostrosities are Hellspawn.....
> 
> If you MUST use a tool like this get the straight-flute ones. Pound the
> damn thing in to seat it, then pop it out and hand-insert it to take the
> stretch out of the offending bolt remains.

Agreed. The stud extractors do a halfway decent job.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:41:49 -0400
From: Rob MacCormick <[email-masked]>
Organization: Boston College
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> As far as the flathead bolts go in the brake drums, my favorite trick is to
> put a blunted chisel on the slot and tap them around with a hammmer. Think
> of it as a poor man's impact screwdriver.

That's what I've always done....oh yeah......you showed that trick to
me.....nevermind....When we did that rear axle work this Summer did you notice
the hack saw notches on those big giant wheel bearing nuts? Those worked
terrific. Is that a pretty common mod?

Rob M
Concord, MA

--__--__--

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:50:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Rob MacCormick wrote:

> 
> > As far as the flathead bolts go in the brake drums, my favorite trick is to
> > put a blunted chisel on the slot and tap them around with a hammmer. Think
> > of it as a poor man's impact screwdriver.
> 
> That's what I've always done....oh yeah......you showed that trick to
> me.....nevermind....When we did that rear axle work this Summer did you notice
> the hack saw notches on those big giant wheel bearing nuts? Those worked
> terrific. Is that a pretty common mod?

A chisel instead of the right tool?  For a rover owner?  Much too...

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:52:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:

> 
> Re: EZ-out:
> 
> THose spiral mostrosities are Hellspawn.....
> 
> If you MUST use a tool like this get the straight-flute ones. Pound the
> damn thing in to seat it, then pop it out and hand-insert it to take the
> stretch out of the offending bolt remains.
> 
> Personally I hate the damn things and never use them. I'd rather drill and
> retap if necessary.

I've had good luck drilling with a left-handed bit.  Doesn't always work,
but often the heat and generated torque will undo the damn thing.

--__--__--

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:23:57 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yeah, I meant the flat head screws.  Weak link between the chair and the
keyboard.  The three on the right rear drum are buggered and won't budge.

Jeff

on 10/17/01 5:19 AM, RON WARD at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Brake drum nuts?  You mean the flat headed securing screws in the face of each
> drum?  If you're talking about my old IIa, the only ones that I didn't drill
> out are on the passenger rear wheel.  Anyway, drill them out.
> 
> Ron
> 
>>>> [email-masked] 10/16/01 04:02PM >>>
> 
> Any hints or techniques that might work in the removal of three very solidly
> seated brake drum nuts?  Got the other three off, but the right rear isn't
> going anywhere in this lifetime.
> 
> Jeff
> 1965IIA
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:26:19 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Trakkers Trim, the Best Customer Service on both
  sides of theAtlantic
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Ron-
No pictures as of yet. 
When I get some I'll mention it to the board.
Scott

> 
> Got any pictures of the seats as they sit in the truck?
> 
> >>> [email-masked] 10/16/01 02:04PM >>>
> 
> My recent experience with Trakkers as I sent to the LR mags:
> 
>   I recently ordered a set of Extreme Hi Back seats for my 1968 '109 pickup.
> When they arrived the quality was far and away the best I've seen of any
> Series seat. It was only when I tried installing them that I realized there
> was a problem. The outer seats were for a Series 1 and too narrow for my 
> seat
> frames. Needless to say I was concerned being half way around the world. But
> after a quick call to Lew the following day, I was put at ease "We shanbt
> leave you with the wrong seats. We'll make things right" he said. That he
> did, only two weeks after speaking with Lew, the seats arrived via DHL
> overnight express.  The now installed Moorland Hi backs look and feel great.
>    Almost all of us have had negative experiences with parts suppliers at
> some time. To Lew's credit this wasn't one of those times. Not only did he
> make it right, he sent them express shipping which he paid for; making the
> whole transaction a lose, I'm sure.
>   If you are looking for quality seats from a firm that stands behind their
> work and service, no matter where you are in the world. Look no further then
> Lew at Trakkers & Exmoor Trim.
> 
> Scott Just
> Rochester
> Michigan
> USA

--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:42:29 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Based on your description, It might be too far gone.  The wire is gone
(melted into oblivion I suppose).  If the "forks" are the two copper pieces
from each terminal, one is OK, but the other has fused on one end to the
other fork, burnt in two, and left a 2mm stub on the other end.

This might be fatal.

Jeff

on 10/17/01 3:36 AM, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Fried ammeter with a side of calamari....yum! 8)
> 
> OK, a few things:
> 
> Does it still move? If so, then Bob's yer uncle.
> 
> What you need to do is replace the burnt wire that's in there. The wire
> generates a magnetic field that makes the vane move.
> 
> Simply put, measure the wire as it sits and cut a piece of the same length
> (it's basically a square-cornered loop between the connectors).Note, this
> needs to be of the same diameter to retain anything vaguely resembling
> calibration.  Cut the old wire out of the forks the ends were in, open the
> forks up slightly and install the new wire, aligning and placing it as the
> old was. Solder the connections - the old were pressure crimps.
> 
> You're done.
> 
> ajr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Andrew Nordby" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] aeroparts capstan winch
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 06:45:31 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hmmm... That's where I got the winch, and for an extra $200 I thought that I 
was getting all of the linkage completed and modified to fit per the 
measurements that I was asked to give. That didn't work out very well, so 
now I need to finish the job myself.

So, if anyone happens to know the distance that the driveshaft needs to be 
able to travel fore-and-aft to prevent movement of the engine from damaging 
the worm and wheel gears, I'd appreciate it.

>From: aaron <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: [lro] aeroparts capstan winch
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:33:34 -0800
>
>
>Andrew,
>WiseOwlParts.Com makes new replacement parts for the aeroparts
>capstan winch, including the drive shaft. I searched for a year
>before I found this out. I hope it helps and I think would be cheaper
>than fabing them unless you have the tools. I believe I paid around
>$50 for the drive shaft.
>
>Aaron
>69 88 in 1000 pieces
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 17
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:55:20 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Actually, I wouldn't call it fatal. if you can restore the connectivity
(i.e.make a new fork from a bit of brass) you can do this. There's nothing
magic about the forks - if you wanted to you actually could just extend the
loop ends to the terminals and have a reasonalb expectation it would work.

The terminals are there for mechanical rigidity - that's why I mentioned
filing up a new one.

                    ajr

Or, send it to me and I'll see what I can do...

                    ajr

--__--__--

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:58:35 -0400
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Organization: U.S. International Broadcasting Bureau
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Warn Hubs
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The problem with leaving out one or two needle bearings is that this
will allow enough wiggle room for the others that they will become
cocked in their grooves, leading to premature wear and possible failure
if they break. I would recommend you put them back if you can. Overbuilt
or not, bad bearings can wipe you out in a hurry.
I thought about this issue whilst rebuilding my t-19. I wondered if I
left one bearing out would it matter? There's a place on these trannies
where you can see the needle bearings and lo and behold I HAD left one
out. I could tell by the way the rollers were all sideways.
-- 
Bill Adams
3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
International Broadcasting Bureau
Washington, D.C.
202-205-9638
[email-masked]

'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel
'81 GoldWing
'69 Le Sabre Convertible
'63 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:18:43 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] brake drum removal...
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 10/17/01 8:28:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> Re: EZ-out:
> 
> THose spiral mostrosities are Hellspawn.....
> 
> 

If you want to hear some of the loudest laughter ever, bring in a part which 
has a broken off EZ-out stuck in it to your local machine shop--those things 
were designed to boost the profits of parts manufacturers and machinists.

The straight flute type are better because they work on a different principle 
than the EZ-out and it's what machine shops use.  The EZ-out puts force 
outward, expanding the stuck bolt and making it even harder to remove. The 
straight flute version works like the proverbial square peg in a round hole.  
The major caveat given to me by a local machinist was that the straight flute 
type work best on larger bolts--the smaller the bolt the more likely you will 
break off the little straight flute bolt extractor.

Hellspawn indeed

Nate

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Seattle area scales
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:21:40 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> > Had the windbreaker on and a towel on my lap.
>
> Next time you pack for a move don't forget to leave out a pair of pants to
> wear.
>
> ;>)
>
> Rich

Hahaha
I don't think a Series was ever intended as a coat and tie type of coach.
The nylon pant I got at Lewis are a great idea.  Big enough to slip on over
the rest of your clothes.  Kept me clean, warm and dry.

Found a house in Silverdale.  If all works out will get our household goods
delivered this weekend and then I can finish my doortops and get the heater
hitched up.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 21
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:34:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I guess my primary confusion/concern is that I'm not certain what I am
rebuilding as I have no idea what it was supposed to look like when it was
working.  Nothing inside but a few scraps of slag copper and a discolored
housing.

Jeff

on 10/17/01 6:55 AM, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Actually, I wouldn't call it fatal. if you can restore the connectivity
> (i.e.make a new fork from a bit of brass) you can do this. There's nothing
> magic about the forks - if you wanted to you actually could just extend the
> loop ends to the terminals and have a reasonalb expectation it would work.
> 
> The terminals are there for mechanical rigidity - that's why I mentioned
> filing up a new one.
> 
> ajr
> 
> Or, send it to me and I'll see what I can do...
> 
> ajr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 22
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:54:42 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

OK....

I need to take some photos.

               ajr

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:24:34 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] aeroparts capstan winch
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Unfortunately, that sounds like my experience in buying a used tailgate 
from them. They're willing to sell things that they don't necessarily have 
or expect to get anytime soon. My experience with ordering new suspension 
from them was completely different.

Keith

At 07:45 10/17/01, you wrote:

>Hmmm... That's where I got the winch, and for an extra $200 I thought that 
>I was getting all of the linkage completed and modified to fit per the 
>measurements that I was asked to give. That didn't work out very well, so 
>now I need to finish the job myself.
>
>So, if anyone happens to know the distance that the driveshaft needs to be 
>able to travel fore-and-aft to prevent movement of the engine from 
>damaging the worm and wheel gears, I'd appreciate it.
>
>
>>From: aaron <[email-masked]>
>>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>>To: [email-masked]
>>Subject: [lro] aeroparts capstan winch
>>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:33:34 -0800
>>
>>
>>Andrew,
>>WiseOwlParts.Com makes new replacement parts for the aeroparts
>>capstan winch, including the drive shaft. I searched for a year
>>before I found this out. I hope it helps and I think would be cheaper
>>than fabing them unless you have the tools. I believe I paid around
>>$50 for the drive shaft.
>>
>>Aaron
>>69 88 in 1000 pieces
>>_______________________________________________
>>LRO mailing list
>>[email-masked]
>>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:28:23 -0600
Subject: [lro] Re: worth fighting for...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Frank Elson posted:
>Miss America is a junior at Portland State University, hoping to eventually 
>get a Master's degree in Bioethics.
>Miss Afghanistan is forbidden from receiving any education at all and 
>cannot read or write.
>
Interesting comparisons in your post.  Certainly exposes
some of the fallacies of cultural relativism.

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 25
Subject: Re: [lro] Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 01 08:38:41 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>   I found an old article about doing this to a Suzuki Samari, looks pretty
>> simple.  Antone know of any web articles/pics of it being done to a Series
>> rig?
>>
>
>Timm Cooper did the front axel on his 107.
>Not sure what axel he has though.

Rev 1 of his series I 109 (not 107) saw a Rover front axle and regular 
leaf springs with some leaves removed to increase flexibility of the 
front suspension.

I took at picture of his initial design before the body or engine was 
added to the project.  The picture appears about 3/4 of the way down the 
page on:

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/LR lift.htm

Current rev, or at least the rev I saw at the beginning of Last month is 
different.

He is now using a narrowed 101 Forward control front Salisbury on the 
front.  He mentioned the thickness of the axle tubing so I suspect he 
bent the original LR axle housing.

He is also now using the longer 88 rear springs up front.  The springs 
are longer and longer springs can move farther (articulate more).  The 
front wheels are in the same place and there are new spring mounts in the 
frame.

Longer springs for increased articulation is an interesting idea

Here is another one I'm wrestling with.  The concept of raising the 
spring mounts to the top of the frame  to bring the centre of roll closer 
to the centre of gravity.  This should increase lateral stability.  And 
of course we know that longer shackles at an angle closer to horizontal 
increases the ability of the springs (wheel) to drop into more downward 
articulation while the longer shackles angles a little off vertical  
allows a spring greater movement in upward articulation as the shackle 
moves towards horizontal.

Coming up with an ideal length shackles and angle, longer springs, 
raising spring attachment points for greater lateral stability, coming up 
with greater shock travel lengths in both directions, setting optimum 
shock angles for the complex rear axle articulation, adding slippery high 
density plastic strips between the spring leaves for decreased spring to 
spring resistance can all present some interesting opportunities for 
improving a series Land Rover's ability to handle the rough stuff.

Things such as king pin angle on the front steering, a max U joint angle 
of 26 degrees (Rover specification), prop shaft slip joint length, front 
prop shaft clearance issues with the under engine frame member and wheel 
clearance issues under extreme articulation, strength of the axle 
housings all make for some interesting challenges.

What about independently controlled air lift helper springs strong enough 
to lift the body & frame at each corner?  One could play some interesting 
games on side slopes if one could increase the distance between the 
wheels & body on just one side of the vehicle.  Or suppose you run 
aground on a rock?  Or need a little more clearance between an obstacle 
and a corner of the front bumper?

There are lots of possibilities with leaf springs & gonzo types with 
other marques are doing some interesting stuff.  One doesn't need to be a 
D90  owner to play suspension games.

These are suspension thoughts I'm currently thinking about.

I know the plastic strips between the springs makes a big improvment.  
I've had this mod for a couple of years.  I did learn you need to glue 
one side to the adjacent spring & let the other side slide.  At least on 
the rears with their complex movment.

LR springs in good condition are flex limited by the socks.  Aftermarket 
shocks increase downward articulation by having a longer extending rod 
but this comes at the cost of decreased upward articulation.  The obvious 
solution is relocating upper shock mount and installing longer shocks.  
Near the bottom of the web page I gave the URL for earlier is a picture 
of the front shock mount on Timm's 109 series I.

If you look at rear shocks on different leaf sprung marques that were 
designed after 1948  you will see a tendency for rear shocks to be 
slanted inwards at around 20 degrees (The FJ40 is a good example of 
this).  I believe this should dampen side to side body jerks.  FJ40 
bottom U bolt plates with a built in bottom shok mount and a L or U 
channel running between the rear frame rails could allow for a range of 
shock mount locations while allowing for much longer shocks.

Series Land Rovers use 7/16ths U bolts front & rear with Rover axle 
housings & 1/2" U bolts with Salisbury housings.  THis is basically an 
artifact from the very light weight series I 80.  Some of us have been 
know to rip U bolts out while off road.  More modern leaf sprung marques 
have larger dia U bolts.

There is space to drill out the front bottom plates to accept 1/2 inch 
dia U bolts.  An FJ40 bottom plate at the rear allows use of 9/16ths U 
bolts (FJ 40s uses larger U bolts than Land Rovers).

Land Rover used an off the  shelf Spicer propshaft yolk and spline set.  
WHen you are finished playing ligt games, measure the static distance 
between the plates the prop shaft wolks mount to and have the prop shafts 
modified with the longer SPicer yolk & spline set for the new static 
length.

Modify the cross member under the front prop shaft for more clearence.

The rest? there are many possibilities & I would like to read other 
people's thoughts on LR suspension mods.  Or at least something other 
than the factory did not do it this way therefore it is wrong.

Thoughts? comments?

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 26
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 08:59:35 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re:  Replacing starter motor
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:41:24 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Re:  Replacing starter motor
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>On my RHD 88, I have removed an old SIIa style starter and replaced in with
a 
new SIII style starter while wearing a shirt and tie, in a parking lot.

Yes, a RHD Land Rover would be far easier to work on in many respects than 
a LHD.  Not only is the starter much more accessible, but the clutch master
cylinder, 
which is tucked under the wing on an LHD vehicle, is out in the engine bay
on 
a RHD Land Rover.  One of the first instructions in the "Remove" list for
the 
clutch master cylinder on a LHD vehicle is "remove the left wing."  I did
this 
twice before deciding there had to be a better way.  Installing a hinged 
panel in the top of the wing over the clutch master cylinder proved to be 
the solution.

So while I don't believe there are any driving advantages of LHD vs. RHD (I 
drive both fairly regularly and have no problems whatsoever switching back 
and forth), there is definitely a big advantage to RHD when it comes to 
maintenance or repair work in the engine bay.  I can't think of anything the

brake or clutch mechanisms would block access to except perhaps 
the fuel pump, but that's quite accessible from underneath, so I shouldn't 
think the brake and clutch cylinders and reservoirs would present much of a 
problem.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 27
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:28:50 -0600
To: "lro-koan.team.net" <[email-masked]>
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Remember the mystery diff?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I reinstalled that diff (identified by Bill at GBR as a Dana Power-Lok) 
along with the contents of a tube of friction modifier found at NAPA. Seems 
to have done the trick - the diff is smoother now and appears to be 
unlocking. Just in case anyone else ever discovers the same in their truck...

Keith

------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
------------

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:13:49 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re:  Replacing starter motor
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin Wrote,"One of the first instructions in the "Remove" list for the clutch
master cylinder on a LHD vehicle is "remove the left wing."  I did this twice
before deciding there had to be a better way.  Installing a hinged panel in the
top of the wing over the clutch master cylinder proved to be the solution."

Everyone is thinking it, so I am writing it.  Marin, I think that you do not
have a Land Rover any more, you have modified it so much.. ;-)
Kind regards,
Mark

--__--__--

Message: 29
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:29:16 -0700
Subject: [lro] Airplane paint (was Seattle scales)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:59:52 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Seattle area scales
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Now I need to know - how much does the paint on a plane weigh?

Depends on the paint scheme, of course.  Some airlines like American have 
minimal paint schemes consisting of a speed stripe or two and the logo(s).
Most 
airlines opt for paint schemes that cover the entire plane in paint.  The
advantage of 
the minimalist paint scheme is a weight savings.  The advantage of an
all-over paint 
scheme is better corrosion control, and (in theory) less maintenance to keep
the 
plane looking good.  As to weight, an all-over paint scheme can require
several 
hundred pounds of paint.  A fully painted 737 requires about 300 pounds of
paint.  
A fully painted 747 uses about 800 pounds of paint.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 30
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:56:52 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] HT leads
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Jeremy <[email-masked]> wrote
>Handy too, was in the middle of the wilderness up in very
>northern idaho, and the car was chugging along (because some of the HT
>leads were falling apart.  Recrimped, happy again.  Need Bosch replacements
>though..)

Nah...go Magnecor.  *Perfect* fit...and inexpensive.  Also bought a set for
the 2.25 motor.

"Try it.  You'll like it...."

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 31
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:56:49 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Starter removal
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>And I see no way of getting that starter into position given its 
>long drive shaft and gear, without loosening the exhaust pipe from the
>manifold. Even then it's extremely difficult to maneuver it around with
>the exhaust pipe detached. You can't even get the old one out without 
>loosening the pipe.... I'm not saying getting it into place without
>loosening the exhaust pipe is impossible, but I don't see how it can be
>done unless one doesn't have all the other obstructions that 
>block access to the starter mount.  Perhaps if you removed the wing and 
>inner wheel arch panel....

Don't need to remove a thing.  Undo the connection and the two securing
bolts/nuts.  Slide the starter forward enough so it rests in the crook of
the downpipe.  (This assumes standard, Rover exhaust piping, not headers or
some such.)  The Dyer gear end will *just* clear the aperture in the
belhousing, allowing it to be swung upwards.  Now with the bonnet folded
against the windscreen, reach down behind the carb and hoist it out by the
Dyer gear end.  (As they say, installation is the reverse of removal....

>Not really.  In order to do what you suggest, I'd have to remove a heat
>riser plate that curves around the exaust pipe under the manifold. 

Ahhh...I threw that bloody thing away 25 years ago.  In the early days of
the Rover club, I found that there was a 100% correlation between the heat
shield and cracked exhaust manifolds.  Cracked (and welded) a manifold
three times before the shield's disposal.  Haven't cracked one since.  Of
course, my feet get a bit toasty....

...and I even have an extra 1/2" or so of exhaust wrap on the pipe to
reduce clearance even more.  Done this removal/refit at least a half dozen
times, including once in 9" of snow.  The IIa style starter is tad longer,
but just enough so that it *won't* work this way.

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 32
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:56:50 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Stunts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Monty Brandenberg <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Grrrr.  Shortly after buying Flashman some years ago I pulled this
>very newbie stunt.  I'd characterize the color as thick blue-grey.
>"Sorry, ma'm, I'm carbonizing my exhaust system for improved thermal
>characteristics." 

;-)  BTDT...got the T-shirt.  It was early 1974 and the floor of Yosemite
Valley.  One of those Ansel Adams-type of days: very cold with snow, clouds
and fog.  Pulled into an overlook adjacent to guy trying to get a good shot
of Cathedral Rocks or somesuch with a lrage format camera.  After a few
shots of my own, I popped the bonnet and added a quart of very cold and
thick 20/50 to the engine, which the PCV valve sucked down greedily.
*Immense* clouds of smoke that just hung in the air, much to the
consternation of the photog.  I drove away quickly....

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 10:09:17 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:02:04 -0700
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: Land Rovers <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] brake drum removal...
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Any hints or techniques that might work in the removal of three very
solidly
seated brake drum nuts?  Got the other three off, but the right rear isn't
going anywhere in this lifetime.

You may have tried all this already.  Put a screwdriver correctly sized for
the 
slot in the slot and give it a few hard whacks with a hammer.  Sometimes the

shock and vibration will "break" the bond between the machine screw and the 
thing it's screwed into.  If you can shove the squirt tube for a can of
WD-40 between 
the rim of the drum and the backing plate, try spraying a ton of WD-40 onto
the inner 
face of the drum where it might work its way between the drum and the hub
and down 
to the threads.  You're going to be overhauling the thing anyway, so at this
point getting 
oil all over the shoes is no big deal.  Then let it soak for a few hours or
days.  
You can try heating the drum around the screws with a torch, being VERY 
careful that there is no oil around that could get ignited by the flame.  
You might get lucky and the differences in heat reaction between the drum
and the 
screws might break the bond.  If you have access to some sort of super-cold
spray 
(liquid nitrogen would be nice) you could try the opposite of the heat thing
to see 
what happened.  This would be much harder to do, however, as the material
you'd 
need to do the job properly is probably pretty hard to come by unless you go
to a shop 
that can do it.  As a last resort, of course, you can drill out the screws
and hope you can 
remove them without damaging the holes and threads in the drum or hub.

By the way, on the subject of brakes, it's a very good idea to at least once
a year 
take a wrench to the bleed screws of the wheel cylinders and loosen them
just 
enough to ensure they have not become "bonded" to the cylinder, and then 
retighten them.  If your brake system is not giving you any trouble, it's
not 
uncommon to not have to mess with the cylinders for many years, even if 
you have to replace the shoes for wear during this time.  In several years, 
depending on the type of wheel cylinders you have, the little bleed screws 
can corrode or bond to the cylinders, and will simply snap off when you 
attempt to loosen them to bleed the system.  "Exercising" the bleed screws 
once or twice a year is a good way to keep this from happening.  

You should 
do this with the clutch slave, too, if you believe in rebuilding hydraulic
cylinders 
when they wear out.  (I personally don't believe in trying to rebuild a
hydraulic 
cylinder, at least not the crappy pot metal cylinders used on vehicles like
the 
Series Land Rover.  Sometimes it works for awhile, and sometimes you get it 
all back together only to find that it still leaks a bit.  New cylinders are
cheap, 
and I've found that by simply installing a new one when needed, it 
lasts for ages and I never have to pull it off because the rebuild didn't
quite 
work.)

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 34
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 12:37:49 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Fried ammeter
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

We'll I've located an very affordable ammeter.  Once I get the replacement,
I will take a good look at the internals and see about rebuilding my old
one.

I appreciate all the follow ups from people.

Also got the damn retaining screws out of the rear drum after breaking one
screw extractor, a few skinned knuckles, and some choice words I had
forgotten I knew.  Blew all the sand and crap out which was my primary
reason for pulling them.  I pulled one retaining screw from each of the
front wheels so all four drums are now secured.  Made certain to use
anti-seize on the re-assembly.

Thanks again,

Jeff
on 10/17/01 6:55 AM, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus at [email-masked] wrote:

> 
> Actually, I wouldn't call it fatal. if you can restore the connectivity
> (i.e.make a new fork from a bit of brass) you can do this. There's nothing
> magic about the forks - if you wanted to you actually could just extend the
> loop ends to the terminals and have a reasonalb expectation it would work.
> 
> The terminals are there for mechanical rigidity - that's why I mentioned
> filing up a new one.
> 
> ajr
> 
> Or, send it to me and I'll see what I can do...
> 
> ajr
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 35
From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 14:05:26 -0600
Subject: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>The rest? there are many possibilities & I would like to read other 
>people's thoughts on LR suspension mods.  Or at least something other than 
>the factory did not do it this way therefore it is wrong.
>
You mentioned some alternate shock locations and angles.
General Motors learned something interesting back in the
late sixties - they were able to significantly decrease
rear axle wrap by placing one shock forward of the axle
and one shock rearward.  Now granted none of us are
probably doing smoky burnouts in our Series - but there
are times off road when a rear axle can lose traction on
rocks and develop some of these oscillations.  Front
and rear axle mounting may help in these situations.

Another good way to reduce unwanted oscillations is to
place the axle off-center on the leaf spring.  This way
the fore and aft sections of the leaf spring are "tuned"
differently because they are no longer of equal length.
So they are less likely to set up a back and forth
oscillation.

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 36
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Disco question
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:28:27 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

you write: >>>because some of the HT
> leads were falling apart.  Recrimped, happy again.  Need Bosch
replacements
> though..)<<<

nah, try Magnacor (sp?)

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

--__--__--

Message: 37
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 15:46:15 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Tim,
    Have you ever noticed that the opposing shock idea that GM employs
contributes to odd behaviour on washboard roads?  Or is it my imagination?

Kirk
(Having only owned GMC's and a Land Rover)

--__--__--

Message: 38
From: "Mark  Love" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Bulkhead Draft/ top end speed
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 19:31:24 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Speaking of top end speed, after getting home from the MAR (700+ miles @ 3800 rpm) the series l
wouldn't idle very well. It got worse over the past week untill it  just shut off when you let off
the gas. I thought i'd burnt a valve but compression checked out so i took the Weber off to have a
look. The gasket between the carb and adapter was worn thin as tissue from the carb being loose at
some point. After a quick disassembly and cleaning i still hadn't found anything suspect. Made a new
gasket out of a LR oil filter box (must stay original) and re-installed the carb. Just on a hunch i
had swmbo come out and hold the pedal to the floor to see if the carb was opening all the way. I
found that i've been driving with 1/2 to 2/3 throttle for the last 6 mos. Modified the linkage and
went for a test ride. Boy !!! What a difference. Smooth idle, fast idle when the choke is pulled
out, and tons of power. Now i want to race Earl in his V6 series lll . If you have a carb conversion
you should check your throttle travel.  Cheers, Mark Love  ...Fastest ser l on the planet

--__--__--

Message: 39
From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:13:26 EDT
To: [email-masked]
CC: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: Seattle area scales
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter Hope posted: <<Drove down to Ft Lewis...>>

Brrrrrr.
I endured Basic Training there during the winter of 1970.
It only rained once.
The entire time!
Was never so wet and cold for so long.

Been colder.  Nearly froze coming back on I-70 from a December trip into
the Canyonlands of Utah about 25 years ago.

Later discovered my Dormobile had a 160 thermostat.  With that and the
pathetic shinburner heater and the natural ventillation sustem of an old
Series IIa, it never got up to freezing inside the car.  Had to scrape
frost from the inside of the windshield from Moab to Denver.  
At least I wasn't wet.

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109
Denver

--__--__--

Message: 40
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 01 16:59:43 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>The rest? there are many possibilities & I would like to read other 
>>people's thoughts on LR suspension mods.

>You mentioned some alternate shock locations and angles.
>General Motors learned something interesting back in the
>late sixties - they were able to significantly decrease
>rear axle wrap by placing one shock forward of the axle
>and one shock rearward.

I was wondering about a second pair mounted almost horzontally front to 
rear.  Maybe even McPherson struts forward to back in order to tame the 
side to side twisting the rear axle does on rock crawling.  If you plan 
to go with taller tyres there is only so much space there. and it doesn't 
help if one tyre side is tyrning in & the other turning out if you use a 
lot of the clearence with tyre.  Thoughts?

>Another good way to reduce unwanted oscillations is to
>place the axle off-center on the leaf spring.  This way
>the fore and aft sections of the leaf spring are "tuned"
>differently because they are no longer of equal length.
>So they are less likely to set up a back and forth
>oscillation.

That's interesting.  Timm Cooper centered the rear wheels in the wheel 
well  by moving the axle location on the springs.  Rover, for some reason 
has the rear wheels about two inches off centre of the wheel opening.  
With the rear wheel centered an 88 becomes a S90.

Anyway he redrilled the long springs then moved the sorter springs of the 
spring pack over to be centered in the new hole location and moved the 
axle over there as well.

I just assumed he moved it justfor larger tyre clearence under full 
articulation.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 41
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:07:06 -0400
Subject: [lro] heater blower alternatives ?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Blower for the heater in the SIII is dead. Anybody know of a replacement I can use from a auto salvage yard that will fit in place of the original? 
Alternative is heater from a M37 24 volt system. Probably only run half speed on 12 volts. I'd like to get something cheap from a junkyard but not sure what to look for.

Bill Fishel

--__--__--

Message: 42
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 16:57:17 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Traction bars, a bar from the frame in front of the axle going back nearly 
horizontal and fixed to the axle is designed to stop axle twist which is a 
precursor of the dreaded hop.  An old drag racer trick that seems to be 
added most of the 'lift loonies' I see around here.  Hope they work as they 
appear to be a piece of hardware just waiting to get bent.  Have also seen 
helper type springs bolted on one half of the spring to try and cancel out 
the twist.

The 109 shocks are canted forward possibly to tame the hop.  Doubt that the 
fore and aft shock mounting is a cure all for axle hop as it has not been 
universally adopted or even used on a majority of trucks.  Doubt that the 
shocks are really that effective as we are talking minute movement that must 
be stopped cold to have much effect.

Anybody talking of adding somthing Tim has done to a stock Series truck is 
probably wasting their effort.  Tim's trucks are RADICAL AND DESIGNED FOR 
COMPETITION.  TAW and the Oregun crowd have more direct experience but I 
wonder if they can actually be driven on the road at highway speeds.  The 
extreme articulation suspension must be exciting in a high side load 
conditions without something to limit the travel.

As far as spring overs, WHY????  A Stock Series Rover and Defender get by 
just fine with 33" tires.  A lift is nice for taller tires but we are 
talking more like 2-4"s.  Sticking 35" tires on a Series is problematical as 
I wonder whether the 2 1/4 can twist that large a diameter tire.  A spring 
over is reported to give a 7" lift.  That's going to raise the CG, on a 
Series, unacceptably, turning it into a flat parking lot, car crusher type 
vehicle.  You're also not increasing the articualion a bit with a spring 
over.  Articulation is the real Achilles Heel of the Series truck and can't 
be addressed, significantly, without lengthening the front springs.  A 
spring over is a lot of effort for very little, if any gain and probably a 
big step backwards.  If you want a 'looney lifty', go with the spring over.  
If you want to go off road, try parabolics and maybe longer shackles.

Someone mentioned raising the spring shackle mounting points as a way to 
increase side load stability.  For the life of me, I can't figure out how 
that would have any effect, whatsoever.  Could see that increased spring 
arch might enhance articulation but believe they were only talking about 
mounting the shackles higher on the frame.  Will whoever posted that 
elaborate on the science behind it.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: "LRO list" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 01 16:59:43 -0700
>
>
> >>The rest? there are many possibilities & I would like to read other
> >>people's thoughts on LR suspension mods.
>
> >You mentioned some alternate shock locations and angles.
> >General Motors learned something interesting back in the
> >late sixties - they were able to significantly decrease
> >rear axle wrap by placing one shock forward of the axle
> >and one shock rearward.
>
>I was wondering about a second pair mounted almost horzontally front to
>rear.  Maybe even McPherson struts forward to back in order to tame the
>side to side twisting the rear axle does on rock crawling.  If you plan
>to go with taller tyres there is only so much space there. and it doesn't
>help if one tyre side is tyrning in & the other turning out if you use a
>lot of the clearence with tyre.  Thoughts?
>
>
> >Another good way to reduce unwanted oscillations is to
> >place the axle off-center on the leaf spring.  This way
> >the fore and aft sections of the leaf spring are "tuned"
> >differently because they are no longer of equal length.
> >So they are less likely to set up a back and forth
> >oscillation.
>
>That's interesting.  Timm Cooper centered the rear wheels in the wheel
>well  by moving the axle location on the springs.  Rover, for some reason
>has the rear wheels about two inches off centre of the wheel opening.
>With the rear wheel centered an 88 becomes a S90.
>
>Anyway he redrilled the long springs then moved the sorter springs of the
>spring pack over to be centered in the new hole location and moved the
>axle over there as well.
>
>I just assumed he moved it justfor larger tyre clearence under full
>articulation.
>
>TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
>Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW -
>[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message
>
>http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman
>
>"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
>Amelia Earhart 1898-1937
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 43
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Spring over swap for a Series
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:52:24 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter,
    That was TAW that made that comment.  I think I understood it, mostly.
She would be better to describe it though, being far more articulate than I
are.  :-)

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 44
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 23:42:19 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] heater blower alternatives ?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Scout II heater possibly.

Bill Fishel wrote:
> 
> Blower for the heater in the SIII is dead. Anybody know of a replacement I can use from a auto salvage yard that will fit in place of the original?
> Alternative is heater from a M37 24 volt system. Probably only run half speed on 12 volts. I'd like to get something cheap from a junkyard but not sure what to look for.
> 
> Bill Fishel
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

--__--__--

_______________________________________________
* Team.Net hosted courtesy of Amaranth Networks, Inc. http://Amaranth.com/ *
* Powered by SUN(r). The network is the computer.(tm) *
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

End of LRO Digest