Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #117 - 8 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 03:10:49 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Terrorism in small town America - unbelievably
       off-topic (Holger Mootz)
   2. Re: Terrorism (Faure, Marin)
   3. Re: Re: Terrorism (Alex Maiolo)
   4. Re: Brake drum screws (John Cranfield)
   5. Re: Brake drum screws (Larry Smith)
   6. Series Seat Frames , , Hank are you out there? ?   =) ([email-masked])
   7. Re: Terrorism in small town America (MAR story) (Paul Oxley)

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Message: 1
From: "Holger Mootz" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Terrorism in small town America - unbelievably
  off-topic
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:15:47 +0200
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi!

No, not really off topic these days. Lifes are more important than Land
Rovers.
I am not american. But here in germany we got about the same anti-terror
paranoia going, although i don't think any islamistic terrorist would spend
0.99$ in blowing up anything in germany.
Does anybody really think that changing laws can stop them? If you bug more
phones? I don't think they discuss their plans on a mobile phone. More
border security? These people lived legally in germany, and they immigrated
legally into the US. Forbide cryptography? Noone, from the aspect of
information theory, can detect well made steganocryptography, not even the
NSA for atkhaatkm. They are intelligent, behave unsuspicious and rely on a
messenger system rather than the internet.
My cheap solution: Make peace in the middle east, stop these
my-enemies-enemy-is-my-friend-politics, and treat arabic countries like
partners and not like stupid camel f..kers living on oil drenched sand, and
they won't treat us like pig-eating infidels.

Holger Mootz
Trier, Europe

VIVOS VOCO MORTVOS PLANGO FVLGVRA FRANGO

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Message: 2
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:39:17 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: Terrorism
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Terrorism in small town America (MAR story)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Yup, let's all just hand over our constitutional rights and let uncle
sugar look in our knicker drawers.

Perhaps I am not attributing the above comment to the correct poster.  If 
so, I apologize. But if the choices are an increased level of security 
with an increased level of 
inconvenience, or an increased risk of harm or death, I think I'll take the 
former.  We're all in a big sweat about constitutional rights and privacy 
and all that because until now, we've never had to deal with the threat of 
terrorism in this country.  We've had a handful of terrorist episodes,  yes,

but it hasn't played out live on national television or involved so many
people, nor 
have US citizens in the past had to contemplate what might happen to them
directly.  
I daresay every one of us today can picture ourselves on a hijacked plane,
or in a building  
or at an event that could be the target of an attack.
  
But the people in Europe and the middle east, and even Asia live under the
threat 
of terrorism every day, and have for decades.  I spend a fair amount of time
in the UK.  
I have never felt I was in a police state, despite the fact that armed
security forces wander 
around the Heathrow terminals and that all the rubbish bins have been
removed from the train 
stations to eliminate one more place to hide a bomb.  I personally am glad
of these heightened 
levels of security.  No one in the UK, or in Germany, or in France, has told
me I can't do this or 
can't drive there.  I may have had to spend a bit more time in the line at
security at the airport, 
but I don't regard that as an inconvenience.  If you balance the time you
spend in a security line 
against the possible risk of ending up dead, I have a hard time saying my
time is more important 
than my life.

As extremist groups realize they can headline their cause by doing extreme
things, be it blow up 
planes or burn down buildings, there will be more and more of this kind of
activity in this country.  
Stopping terrorism by catching the known terrorists is pretty much
impossible, 
as that doesn't eliminate the threat from the 
terrorists you don't know.  The only thing that will eliminate terrorism is
the elimination of the conditions 
that foster it, and while that may happen eventually, it's going to require
an evolutionary mindshift within 
a lot of cultures around the world, including our own.  The roots of
terrorism are ignorance, economic 
inequality, and social inequality.  Until those issues are somehow resolved,
there will be terrorism, 
whether it's by people trying to promote a religion, establish a country, or
protect a grove of trees.

So what to do in the meantime?  Take whatever measures are necessary to
ensure as much as possible 
the safety of yourself and your fellow citizens.  If that means longer
security checks, if that means more 
effective ways of identifying who's who, if that means giving the people who
we've asked to protect us 
more powers to do so, then that's what we have to do IF we value life over
convenience.

The US is only a little over 200 years old.  A 200-year-old building in
Europe is barely qualified for its first 
home improvement loan.  We've enjoyed an easy and rather naive life these
last 200 years.  Now it's time 
to wake up and see that reality isn't necessarily how our
high-school-mentality media has presented it all 
this time.  People don't get all nice if you treat them "fairly."  Bin Laden
& Co. don't want to negotiate with us.  
They aren't pissed because they don't have a house in the suburbs, 2.5 kids,
and three cars.  They aren't mad 
because their favorite TV show was cancelled, or the US didn't give them
enough free food. They don't even 
want our land or our resources.  For reasons we may never comprehend, they
simply want America, and 
everything America stands for in their eyes, gone.  They want us dead, end
of story.  Our sense of fair play 
isn't even a concept in their minds.

The Protestants in Northern Ireland want the Catholics gone, the Catholics
want the Protestants gone, the Israelis 
want the Palestinians gone, the Palestinians want the Israelis gone, and so
it goes.  Our term of isolation from 
real problems and real hatreds is over.  We're part of the world now, in
every sense of the word.  And surprise, 
surprise, we're just as vulnerable, and we will be from now on.  Things will
never be the same.  

That doesn't mean everything will be bad, it just means they won't be the
same.  And part of that is going to 
be increased security, and part of that is going to be learning to live with
it, just like every other country and 
culture has had to in the rest of the world.  We don't "lose our freedom"
because we have the intelligence to 
protect ourselves better.  We aren't less free, we're just safer.

So stop whining and be grateful that there are people out there who are
willing to risk their own safety to ensure 
ours.  If they weren't willing to paw through our suitcases, or patrol our
streets, or man the x-ray scanners, 
or take the extra moment to make sure the face in front of them matches the
face on the card, the terrorists 
would surely win because this country would simply seize up in fear.  The
Europeans learned a long time ago 
how to deal with terrorism- you protect yourself as best you can and live
your life.  It's time we learned 
the same lesson.

One of my coworkers has a great solution for ending terrorism.  Simply dump
all our excess television sets, 
VCRs, stupid TV programs, dumb video games, and all the other mindless crap
that we call "our 
culture" on the terrorist camps, and then they, too can sink into the mire
of western greed and replace 
the worship of Allah with the worship of Acquisition.  They'll be too busy
lusting after the newest SUV to 
think about blowing anything up.

Land Rover content- you will never be mistaken for a terrorist in a Series
Land Rover.  No terrorist would 
risk exposure by driving such a slow, noisy, leaky, troublesome vehicle, nor
would he pick such a vehicle to 
use in a kamikaze attack- the vehicle would never get there before the fuse
ran out.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
(original owner)
1973 Land Rover Series III-88
1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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Message: 3
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Terrorism
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:39:27 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Land Rover content- you will never be mistaken for a terrorist in a Series
> Land Rover.  No terrorist would
> risk exposure by driving such a slow, noisy, leaky, troublesome vehicle,
nor
> would he pick such a vehicle to
> use in a kamikaze attack- the vehicle would never get there before the
fuse
> ran out.

M-
I guess you missed my story, which started this latest thread.
The convoy of Rovers I was a part of was mistaken as a "terrorist convoy".
We were all described as "Middle Eastern looking, probably Afghany,"
although we are a pretty WASPy looking lot.
Let me know if you want me to re-email it to you.

I get your point on the other stuff, though, and fully agree.

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:09:37 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Brake drum screws
Reply-To: [email-masked]

So do I ......Once the buggers are out after being in place for many
years.
John and Muddy

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> 
> >If you get one of the impact driver kits
> 
> Personally I use anti size when putting the screws in and do not torque
> then down.  The wheel keeps them from backing out if one should become
> loose.
> 
> TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
> Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW -
> [email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message
> 
> http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman
> 
> "How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
> Amelia Earhart 1898-1937
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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Message: 5
From: "Larry Smith" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Brake drum screws
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:12:23 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

NAPA

Got one of the hammer driven impact wrenches.  Came with the bit and a 1/2
inch holder socket for the impact. The bits are replaceable, also available
individually at NAPA.

Larry Smith
Chester, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "asfco" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: 10 October, 2001 01:55 PM
Subject: [lro] Brake drum screws

>
> anyone know where I can get a 9/16 screwdriver or better yet a 1/2"
> drive socket with a 9/16 wide screwdriver bit?  I am getting tired of
> buggering the drum screws
> Rgds
> Steve Bradke '68 lla 88
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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Message: 6
From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:51:47 EDT
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Series Seat Frames , , Hank are you out there? ?   =)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hank-
Do you have the middle seat back frame as well? 
The new middle seat won't fit with what I have.
Thanks
Scott

PS- I obviously misplaced your email.

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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 07:48:13 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Terrorism in small town America (MAR story)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter Ogilvie wrote:
 
> There was some news about a flame thrower anti hijacking device in the news
> a while back.  It turned any hijacker into charcoal.  Never heard more about
> it, did it have much effect on the hijacking threat???

:-{)} Yeah, apparently it worked just fine, but I haven't heard of it
actually being used in anger. There was a neat mpeg of it somewhere...
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

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End of LRO Digest