Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #95 - 14 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 03:06:20 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: bloody idjuts with big spanners (Andy Woodward)
   2. T-case (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
   3. RE: T-case (Easton Trevor A)
   4. New vs used (was Koenig winch rebuild costs) (Faure, Marin)
   5. RE: Quicker to just email me . . . (Simon J. Harding)
   6. Re: Cruise control (Scott Wickham)
   7. Re: T-case (TeriAnn Wakeman)
   8. Sightings and Freelanders (N Forbes)
   9. Re: re:Interested in GM Engine conversion stories (Hope Peter)
  10. Re: Re: Interested in GM Engine conversion stories (Hope Peter)
  11. Vendor endorsement ([email-masked])
  12. Re: Vendor endorsement (Alex Maiolo)
  13. Land Rover Six (James Spyker)
  14. Re: Re: Interested in GM Engine conversion stories (Kirk Hillman)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Andy Woodward" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:53:53 +0100
Subject: Re: [lro] bloody idjuts with big spanners
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Why am I wasting time on a 10-dollar hydraulic jack?

Cos a scissor jack will lift the same weight, be easier to maintain, 
and also cover a much greater distance of lift. making it more 
versatile for other jobs. You can cram one into a space only 3 
inches wide that needs jacking apart......

I would always chose a scissor jack except if I wante to lift heavie 
things than about 2 tons, in which case the hydraulic jack would be 
the only option.

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:52:57 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] T-case
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>

>I checked the breather on the gear box (small hole in the
>inspection plate), but could not locate one on the t-box.

That's because Rover, in it's infinite wisdom, didn't install one.  If you
want to stay gen-you-wine, you could braze an axle vent to the top cover
plate; you have to stick it on mechanically somehow, as there isn't enough
metal in the cover for the breather's threads to get a bite.  Or, just
about any fitting and hose to a remote location would work.

Cheers 

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked] '" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] T-case
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:49:01 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

 My T-case had a very small hole in the top plate this was bored ou and a
swagelok fitting soldered in place.

Just unsubbed as I'm off for a few weeks.

See some of you at MAR.

Trevor
[email-masked] will find me if needed.

That's because Rover, in it's infinite wisdom, didn't install one.  If
you
want to stay gen-you-wine, you could braze an axle vent to the top cover
plate; you have to stick it on mechanically somehow, as there isn't
enough
metal in the cover for the breather's threads to get a bite.  Or, just
about any fitting and hose to a remote location would work.

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [lro] New vs used (was Koenig winch rebuild costs)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Simon J. Harding" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 11:27:33 -0700
Subject: [lro] Koenig winch rebuild costs
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>All of these costs except 
the mounting frame modification, cable and driveline were unexpected costs.  
I'm posting this as a kind of reality check for those who spend too much time 
on the computer saying "you can do that for ___."  without knowing what the 
heck they are talking about because they've not actually done it themselves.  
That's the question to ask a person who tells you how simple it is to do a 
particular repair:  have you done it?  This is also a cautionary tale regarding 
buying things rover related based on what the seller tells you versus what 
you have seen.

This can also be interpreted as an example of why it's usually worth the extra 
money to buy something new, as opposed to buying used, especially if you plan 
to keep the thing for a long time.  Granted, many of the parts and accessories for 
Series Land Rovers are no longer available new, but they are often available in 
rebuilt, like-new condition. Unless you enjoy rebuilding things and have the time 
and equipment to do it, the extra cost up front to pay for a new or rebuilt item 
is often far less than what you may end up paying it get the thing fixed, as Mr.
Harding discovered.

While Land Rovers may have been created more or less equal at the factory, 
that equality soon disappeared after they left Solihull.  Even something as 
basic as how an owner shifts gears can affect the longevity of the machine.  
I have ridden with Land Rover owners who shifted hard, not bothering to try to 
match the engine and transmission speeds before re-engaging the clutch.  While 
the vehicle functioned under this treatment, you know the life of the clutch and 
transmission components will not be nearly as long as with someone who 
makes an effort to match engine and transmission speeds during the shift, and who has 
a better sense of the timing needed to do a smooth shift.  This is just one example of 
the kind of owner treatment that can surface years or even decades later as a problem 
for you, the current owner.

I have stated in the past how trouble-free my SIII has been since I bought it new 28 
years ago.  This is not because my vehicle was built better than the other '73 SIIIs, 
or that I am something special in the mechanical department.  I suspect 
the few people on this list who bought Series Land Rovers new and still drive them 
today have experienced the same reliable service from them that I have.  I attribute this 
to the fact that I have treated the vehicle with the intention of getting as long a life 
out of it as possible.  Plus all the accessories- winch, locking hubs, overdrive- 
were bought new.  True, I did manage to break the overdrive through my own 
stupidity.  But the replacement was new.  It's often far easier to keep a new item in 
good working condition than it is to bring a used item up to good, working condition 
and then keep it that way, because you're up against whatever abuse the used item may 
have received in the past.

I personally am very leery of buying used equipment like winches, hubs, etc.  There's 
just no way of knowing what the previous owner, or owners, have done to them, if at some 
point they were strained to or beyond their maximum strength.  This is why Mr. Harding's 
comment of not trusting someone's statement that "you can do such-and-such for so much 
money or in so much time" is very valid.  Every Series Land Rover is different now that 
so much time has passed since their manufacture.  Where one person my find the steering 
relay falls out in his hand, another person may have to practically destroy the front of the frame 
to remove it.  I need to change all the spring and shackle bushings on my SIII.  I haven't changed 
one in almost twenty years, so I don't know how it will go when I get around to it.  But back in 
the early 1980s when I replaced the stock rear springs with 109 springs, I did change some of 
the bushings, and they came out easily with the whack of a hammer.  I read of other people 
who have to use torches, presses, saws, etc. to remove them.  I bought a PortaPower (great 
tool, by the way) for use when changing the transmission filter on our Range Rover.  Turned 
out I didn't need it, but I know people who have, even though their vehicles are "identical" to 
mine.

Just because one person is able to accomplish some maintenance or repair task with ease 
and another person has just a devil of a time doing the same thing doesn't necessarily 
reflect on the abilities of either person. The first guy may have a vehicle that enjoyed an 
easy life and is free of rust, corrosion, and overstressed parts, while the other guy may be 
dealing with a vehicle that, despite its good physical appearance, may have been twisted 
and strained by a previous owner far beyond the designers' expectations.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Simon J. Harding" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>,
  "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 09:30:56 -0700
Subject: [lro] RE: Quicker to just email me . . .
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Ever rebuilt a koenig crank drive winch?  I thought not.  You wanted to know what the rebuild cost.  Now you know.  Please don't mail me anymore.  While your posts are amusing, grownups have to earn a living and it takes time to read your drivel.   There are plenty of people who think you are unreliable.   Like I told you last time, I'm done with you.  There's no point in us communicating anymore.  Please go away.

-----Original Message-----
From:	[email-masked] [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, September 21, 2001 9:03 AM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	Quicker to just email me . . .

Simon,
    I was amused by your post on the LRO list that you left for me, 
especially after your last email calling me childish . . . I found it very 
ironic.  If lying about people ( [SJH]    ) to make your point, spreading 
rumors, and whining a lot is characteristic of an adult; I will happily 
remain an adolescent.
-Cheers
-Ike Goss

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Scott Wickham" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Cruise control
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:59:39 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Check the ends of the hoses at the throttle pot
and over at the T-fitting adjacent to the master cylinder.

  I haven't checked these but, did the check on the rubber diaphragm.  It's
ok.  The hoses go to a small pump looking device by the driver side
headlight area.  There is one plactic branch coming off there that has
nothing connected to it.  Should there be?

Scooter

Material possessions never really thrilled me. I guess its like having a
hammer. Owning a hammer isn't thrilling but beating the crap out of
something that doesn't want to cooperate is gratifying.

-Bill Fishel 2001.

--__--__--

Message: 7
Subject: Re: [lro] T-case
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 01 10:59:26 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
>
>>I checked the breather on the gear box (small hole in the
>>inspection plate), but could not locate one on the t-box.
>
>That's because Rover, in it's infinite wisdom, didn't install one.  If you
>want to stay gen-you-wine, you could braze an axle vent to the top cover
>plate; you have to stick it on mechanically somehow, as there isn't enough
>metal in the cover for the breather's threads to get a bite.  Or, just
>about any fitting and hose to a remote location would work.

I currently have a rear Defender style breather on the top plate of my 
transfer case to solve pressure build up pushing oil through the output 
shaft seals.

I drilled and tapped the plate then threaded the banjo bolt in. I have a 
line going up and over the e-brake cross shaft to angle it for drainage 
then the tube goes into an existing hole in the cross member that is 
right behind the transfer case in a 109.  The inside of that cross member 
is very well lubed by splash from gears forcing oil up into the vent.

I'm actually loosing a fairly significant amount of oil through the vent 
in the top plate.

I still think it is a good idea but a baffle is needed on the underside 
of the plate that will keep splash from being forced up the vent.

I'm thinking of a braised wedge shape baffle with the open side being 
opposite the direction the gears turn in the forward direction.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.shadow-catcher.net      <- Photography for sale
http://www.overlander.net          <- Web directory for Land Rover 
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   <- My personal web site

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:03:55 +0000
Subject: [lro] Sightings and Freelanders
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I can't believe I forgot to mention that I got to drive a Freelander several 
weeks ago. I was at the Halifax Land Rover dealership and they had it for a 
weekend to put on display. Test drives were not allowed but I was able to 
drive it around the lot. Very nice truck. I think they will sell very well 
in North America.

I just picked up a copy of LRW. On the cover is a picture of a red SIII 
owned by Casey McMullen. As I was reading the article, I noticed in one of 
the photos a Bloody Knuckles Pub grill badge. Hi Casey!!

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] re:Interested in GM Engine conversion stories
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 14:38:46 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> I can offer pictures & take measurements. if that helps any one thinking
> about this conversion.
> Rob
>

Rob,
if it's not already on a website, email me the info offline and I will post
it to my site.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Interested in GM Engine conversion stories
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:18:36 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Anyway I don't know if the 4.3L variety
> ever came with a carb, although I found a
> "marine" manifold and carb for the 4.3L
> that some people use.  To get to the point -
> what is involved with getting a 4.3L engine
> to run with a carb instead of FI?  Does the
> block need to be a certain year?  Is it
> complicated or simply a matter of ripping
> out the electronics etc and bolting on
> a manifold, carb, and HEI?  Thanks for
> any info.

Timm,
I did some searches on www.google.com for "chevy 4.3l" and found a couple of
4.3l specific websites.  Some of which had links to dealers for intakes,
exhaust and other performance items.
Looks like it is a pretty straight forward-bolt on new manifold-add carb of
choice.
I do know that the 4.3l found in early 90's vehicles had the 700r4 tranny
with computer controlled shifting and that there is a manual kit for this
tranny.
So it's possible to do a complete swap and all you will have is a wire going
to the coil.
If you want to keep the EFI stuff there are also companies that make
installation kits that include the cpu and wiring.
Pete
4.3 into a rangerover
http://members.mint.net/rovah/vortec.html
Edelbrock Intake
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/man_sbchev.html#3713
links and photos of a 4.3 rebuild with holley carb
http://dune.globe-net.net/~jbercaw/chevy_motor.htm

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:26:51 EDT
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Vendor endorsement
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi all,

Monday I called up DAP, inquired about their heavy duty petrol tanks--?in 
stock, ?price etc.

I send them out a check Monday--they don't know me from Adam (not Whatsup 
Adam)--I last bought stuff from them 2 1/2 years ago--and today it hits my 
door.

They must have had that thing ready to send when the check arrived Wednesday.

I'll paint tomorrow and put it in Sunday--ready to go to work Monday!  

I highly recommend them.

Nate

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Vendor endorsement
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:07:30 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Damn skippy, Nate.
Al is the MAN. During my hybrid building project, a project that in
retrospect I had *no* business attempting, Al was a library. He has to be
one of the most patient and decent guys our community has. He always had
time for me and as a result, he got almost all of my business. The parts
came fast, well packed, and the orders were complete. When I needed parts in
order to move forward, meaning without the part I was seized up before a
heavy work weekend, he Blue Lined them to me even if I called at 3pm. I just
had this image of him chasing the UPS truck.
"Mustn't let that neophyte down!!!!"

I just can't say enough good things about him and DAP in general.

Serious hats off to David Guage at Thatched Roof Garage as well. His prices
are reasonable, he is also very, very patient on the phone and always
willing to dole out advice or work through a problem. The parts are great
quality and he stands behind his stuff in a way that people haven't seen
since the 50's. David is a lot like a small town hardware store owner in his
ethics.

Both of them are quick to suggest both quick and permanent fixes using
non-Rover parts if they think you're OK with that. Things that get you
moving,sometimes at the expense of a sale on their part.
Gentlemen, if you're reading, that will pay off in spades.

These guys have a very dedicated customer in me. I'm almost disappointed
that my project is complete as I won't be chatting with them as much.

I rank them with LL Bean as companies that truly care about what they do and
making their clients happy. An inspiration to us all.

I'll stop gushing now...

Up DAP! Up Thathed Roof!,
Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: [lro] Vendor endorsement

>
> Hi all,
>
> Monday I called up DAP, inquired about their heavy duty petrol tanks--?in
> stock, ?price etc.
>
> I send them out a check Monday--they don't know me from Adam (not Whatsup
> Adam)--I last bought stuff from them 2 1/2 years ago--and today it hits my
> door.
>
> They must have had that thing ready to send when the check arrived
Wednesday.
>
> I'll paint tomorrow and put it in Sunday--ready to go to work Monday!
>
> I highly recommend them.
>
> Nate
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "James Spyker" <[email-masked]>
To: "Lro" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:44:55 -0700
Subject: [lro] Land Rover Six
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello All, I have just acquired a 6 cylinder Land Rover engine and was
wondering what the general consensus is on its suitability to overhaul
and put in my 1973 SIII 88".  The 2.25 in the 88" runs great, but I
was wondering if there is any power advantage to the six.

Thank you for your opinions James Spyker p.s.  I will also be parting
out a 1963 109 Pickup.  If anyone has any specific needs, let me know.
The body is dented in every panel, so then are free for the taking
except the cab which I may put on the 88"

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Interested in GM Engine conversion stories
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:19:34 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Peter,
    Did you notice that the author of one of those pages (the one regarding
the 4.3 into a RR) mentioned 'Roverheads'?  Have you or anyone else heard of
this list?  I haven't been able to find anything on it.  Is it dead now?  I
would be interested in dropping my ear on that line...

:-)

Kirk

--__--__--

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