Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #87 - 39 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:05:11 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Today's Tragedies (Paul Oxley)
   2. Re: Today's Tragedies (Paul Oxley)
   3. Re: Today's Tragedies (John Cranfield)
   4. Re: comments to Adam ([email-masked])
   5. Re: Today's Tragedies ([email-masked])
   6. Re: Just thought you'd like to know ([email-masked])
   7. RE: Bumper Stickers (RON WARD)
   8. US flags (Lori Sickley)
   9. Re: Today's Tragedies (RON WARD)
  10. Re: Today's Tragedies (RON WARD)
  11. RE: 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion (Tackley, John)
  12. RE: something nice from Canada (Tackley, John)
  13. RE: 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  14. Brake Fluid, Old Handbrake and Galvanized Bulkhead (Michael Hatton)
  15. Brakes on my Disco ([email-masked])
  16. RE: 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion (Tackley, John)
  17. RE: Brakes on my Disco (Tackley, John)
  18. Re: RANT! (Tim Czajka)
  19. WE STAND UNITED (Rich Williams II)
  20. Re: Brakes on my Disco ([email-masked])
  21. Re: The aftermath (yes, it's off topic) (N Forbes)
  22. Re: Brakes on my Disco (Bill Fishel)
  23. Painting the Land-Rover (Jean-Leon Morin)
  24. RE: Painting the Land-Rover (Matthew Wilson)
  25. Re: Painting the Land-Rover (Mark Pilkington)
  26. Radio mounts (Harald Hansen)
  27. Re: Painting the Land-Rover (Martin Rothman)
  28. Re: The aftermath (yes, it's off topic) (Stephen West-Fisher)
  29. Re: Painting the Land-Rover (Jean-Leon Morin)
  30. Re: WE STAND UNITED (Jim Hall)
  31. Bell Housings (William J. Rice)
  32. Series Starter Solonoids - Choices? (Nick Danger)
  33. Re: Series Starter Solonoids - Choices? (Bill Fishel)
  34. Re: Land Rover logo (C. Marin Faure)
  35. RE: Something nice from Canada (C. Marin Faure)
  36. Re: Today's Tragedies (C. Marin Faure)
  37. Re: The aftermath (C. Marin Faure)
  38. Knee jerk reaction (C. Marin Faure)
  39. Re: Knee jerk reaction (Paul Quin)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:01:03 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin Safaris
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Scott Wickham wrote:
> Lots of
> flags flying here today.  On cars, trucks, homes and business.  The stores
> are running out of them.  I've never felt as proud to be an American.

I spent a couple of hours surfing between CNN, BBC World and Fox News
last night. There sure are a bunch of flags flying. When I started
feeling proud to be an American I knew it was time to go to bed!

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:44:48 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin Safaris
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Frank Elson wrote:
 
> with that attitude your country would not exist, it would still be one of
> our colonies.
 
Frank, if wishes were horses beggars would ride :-{)}

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:11:01 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Paul Oxley wrote:

> 
> Frank, if wishes were horses beggars would ride :-{)}

It's not clear who is wishing here Paul :)
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:09:16 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] comments to Adam
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 9/14/01 3:19:50 AM, Allen Northwood 
<[email-masked]> writes:

>You have a point (up to a point). Civic responsibility does now seem to
>a fondly remembered ideal. But it is a bit hard on todays youth to expect
>them to develop such responsibility in an environment where there is so
>little by way of example. 

and allowing them a "pass" for not learning it will further their education?
people will rise to the challenge if it is offered.

rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1965 Diesel LWB, The Ugly Truck
1965 Ex-MOD FFR LWB, pile'o'parts <- Just add bolts  :-0
1965 Ex-MOD LWB, Winnie
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

Q. Why do they call it a kilt?
A. Because a lot of people got kilt when they called it a skirt.

             The road to hell is paved with unbought stuffed dogs.
                                               -Bill Gorton

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:09:21 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 9/14/01 3:19:50 AM, frank writes:

> That's why we in the UK are backing you 100 per cent. It's our fight as
>well, it's a fight that everyone in the free world should be backing.

the sight of a jam packed, out the door and well into the streets St. Paul's 
with everyone singing the battle hymn of the republic brought tears to my 
eyes. 

we all know you are behind us, it means a lot to us, and we appreciate it.

rgds,
spenny
Arlington, VA

1965 Diesel LWB, The Ugly Truck
1965 Ex-MOD FFR LWB, pile'o'parts <- Just add bolts  :-0
1965 Ex-MOD LWB, Winnie
Land Rover - 4WD of choice for the Information Superhighway

Q. Why do they call it a kilt?
A. Because a lot of people got kilt when they called it a skirt.

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:12:39 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Just thought you'd like to know
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Terni, Italy

I'm working here in a small industrial town about a 100 miles north of Rome. 
There are 4 of us from Los Angeles amongst an Italian crew of 100. We've 
watched and read with horror of the events in New York and Washington DC. The 
Italians have all been sympathetc and understanding.

Today, at noon precisely, everything stopped, as it did all over Italy, for 
three minutes of silence in remembrance of those who were killed. Through the 
open doors of the stage we could hear the bells in the local church in the 
village on the hillside above us.

The world has gotten smaller. We are not alone.

Ian Kelly (in Terni, Italy)

1970 Series IIA 88" (in Los Angeles)

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:17:37 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Bumper Stickers
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Trevor, where'd you find that one??

Ron Ward
1995 RR Classic plushy
1997 Disco SE nasty

>>> [email-masked] 09/13/01 06:18PM >>>

 Our Rangie bears the sticker
"My other car is a real Land Rover"
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:15:35 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: Lori Sickley <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] US flags
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Nope, not LR related unless it motivates you to add a US flag to your 
vehicles....

Here's the photo you may have seen of the firemen raising a flag where the 
World Trade Center once stood, it's similarity to the Marines raising the 
flag at Iwo Jima.

Photographer's story and photo:
http://www.bergen.com/news/tomfoto20010913.htm

To the list members who are involved with the defence of our country, 
strength and prayers your way in the days ahead.

Lori <<<hugs from NE Pennsylvania USA>>>

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone.....Joni Mitchell

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:19:45 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

That kind of support is appreciated Frank.  See you at MAR...  We'll be the one's camped under the enormous American flag! :->

Ron Ward

>>> [email-masked] 09/13/01 06:20PM >>>

Ron writes re MAR: >>>> I'll be making that trip also, Frank<<<

well I hope to meet you as well Ron.
 Seems to me these things, which in the context of death and destruction
might seem very small, are even more important now.
 I'm not allowing a bunch of murderous thugs to deter me from meeting my
friends in the US, and you lot should not let them disrupt your normal way
of living.
 After all, we have the choice whether to go out and look at Land Rovers, to
wear what we want, to think what we want and to SAY what we want.
Terrorists, of whatever persuasion want us to do what they want ... and
nothing else.
 That's why we in the UK are backing you 100 per cent. It's our fight as
well, it's a fight that everyone in the free world should be backing.

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:21:38 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

You will find me in a willow green, lifted Disco with ARB front and no winch (winch wanted sign in the window perhaps?) camped with a IIa 88 rag top.

Tell me about the winch.

Ron

>>> [email-masked] 09/13/01 07:37PM >>>

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:01:26 -0400, RON WARD wrote:

>Tom, come join me and my family at SAE this weekend.
>
>Ron

I'll be in a white Disco with a funky homemade bumber ;-)
And the "Winch for sale" signs in the rear windows (I'll have the winch with me, BTW)

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
        in places even more inaccessible
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked] 
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:51:14 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I do not often make off-topic posts, but the following warrants an
exception...at this moment it says what most every American would like to
say, and what every American wishes the rest of the world would recognize
and admit.  Thank you, thank you Mr. Sinclair!

Read on...

JT/ric

PS...the ROAV Mid Atlantic Rally, October 5,6 & 7 in VA will take place as
scheduled, unchanged.  Frank Elson has confirmed his definite plans to
attend, both here on this list and to me directly, so, THANKS FOR THE STRONG
SHOW OF SUPPORT, FRANK!!! (...that is, if he can get a plane ride.
(...aside to Frank...Better look into steamship or freighter passage now if
you really want to get here on time) ;>))

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record: 
 
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. 
 
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of
the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying
even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. 
 
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. 
 
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in
to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped. 
 
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars! into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about
the decadent, warmongering Americans. 
 
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?  If so, why don't they fly them? Why
do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? 
 
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the
moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. 
 
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -! not
once, but several times - and safely home again. 
 
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
window for everybody to look at. 

Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.  They are here on our
streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are
getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. 
 
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both
are still broke. 
 
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to
the Americans in trouble?  I don't think there was outside help even during
the San Francisco earthquake. 
 
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired
of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at
the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is
not one of  those." 
 
Stand proud, America! 

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] something nice from Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:56:12 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

OOPS, sorry, Rich beat me to it, and I thank him for it

JT/ric

--__--__--

Message: 13
Subject: RE: [lro] 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:58:00 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

John, I hate to say this, but this dates to 1973. Mr. Sinclair has been
dead since 1985.....

Not that it makes these any less valid, but it is a bit dated.

                              ajr

--__--__--

Message: 14
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:06:41 -0400
From: Michael Hatton <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Brake Fluid, Old Handbrake and Galvanized Bulkhead
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thanks Dave, I believe it was the same guy who suggested the same to me.

BTW, in the process of doing my frame-over, the only major difference in
the chassis is the bracket that the hand brake pivot is mounted on.
Mine was a bracket that was bolted through the chassis, whereas my new
chassis the brcket is welded to the side. THis makes me think that the
chassis might not have been a SIII.
Also, my shiny "new" glavanized bulkhead sits in place and not a sign of
major warpage. Some of the larger flat panels are warped within
themselves, but otherwise it fits perfectly.

Michael

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, d.h.lowe wrote:

>
> Michael; I bought some at Zellers last weekend.
> Have to go I have a major project for some guy to finish tonight.....:-)
> Dave
>
> Michael Hatton wrote:
>
> > I think that Paul is correct.
> > In this highly emotional time, and as hard as it might be, clear, calm
> > objective thoughts will bring resolution, far quicker than hasty reactions
> > based on fear and anger.
> >
> > Its also not time to fight amongst ourselves (is there ever a time?)
> >
> > LR content - anyone know if Wal-Mart Canada stil stocks the Castrol Brake
> > Fluid, the 2 stores that I have been to, say they no longer carry it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Paul Oxley wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> > > > These jerks from the middle east will not stop until they are stopped or everyone is a > Moslem fanatic.
> > >
> > > ... and Nate said:
> > >
> > > > This is Militant Islam (not all Islam) vs. Infidels.
> > >
> > > At a time like this I think it's important to draw that distinction.
> > > Let's not let the actions of a small (whacko) minority reflect on
> > > hundreds of millions of devout Muslims.
> > >
> > > I believe (or, rather, I've been told) that Islam is a religion of love
> > > and peace, and all these fanatics are seriously out of step with the
> > > mainstream. I guess you can equate it to some of the darker periods that
> > > Christianity has seen, I mean who expected the Spanish Inquisition? <cue
> > > the Monty Python fans...>
> > >
> > > Did you guys catch the footage of Yasser Arafat donating blood? Sure it
> > > was symbolic and for the cameras, but it sends a VERY powerful message
> > > out to both the West and the Arab world.
> > >
> > > Watching this from the other side of the world, and then communicating
> > > with you guys is surreal, but we're trying to help. The South African
> > > search and rescue teams that helped out in Turkey earlier are standing
> > > by to leave, but, of course, can't get clearance to fly in just yet.
> > >
> > > Hang in there guys! We're thinking of you.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Paul Oxley
> > > AfricanAdrenalin.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > LRO mailing list
> > > [email-masked]
> > > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> > _______________________________________________
> > LRO mailing list
> > [email-masked]
> > http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:23:44 EDT
From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Brakes on my Disco
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Folks
I was wondering if any other disco owners could answer this question. How low to the floor does your brake pedal go i seem to push almost to the floor 

Dave
1965 IIA88
1996 dISCO

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] 9/11 Tragedies...one Canadian's opinion
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:39:11 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Yup, knew that when I sent it, as I had read it before (but didn't know Ron
had already submitted it to the list).  My thoughts on Mr. Sinclair's
comments of nearly 30 years ago were/are that in the past 28 or so yrs.
since, the US has undoubtedly and unselfishly done as much and spent as
much, and more, in relief for others in the world than it probably had up to
1973.  To my knowledge, those favors, nor the funds, like those in years
before have not been repaid by those states that were the recipients of
them.  Furthermore, the US does not expect the debts to be repaid, having
forgiven them in the past.  Finally, though much appreciative of the support
recently shown from the civilized states of the world, WE, the citizens of
the US, are more than prepared to extract justice from the 9/11 perpetrators
and their supporting states, and proudly defend our shores quite adequately
all by ourselves, THANKS!!!

JT/ric

Alan said:
John, I hate to say this, but this dates to 1973. Mr. Sinclair has been
dead since 1985.....

Not that it makes these any less valid, but it is a bit dated.

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Brakes on my Disco
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:41:55 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is probably indicative of worn pads...how many miles since the pads
were renewed?

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:24 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Brakes on my Disco

Folks
I was wondering if any other disco owners could answer this question. How
low to the floor does your brake pedal go i seem to push almost to the floor

Dave
1965 IIA88
1996 dISCO
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:55:58 -0600
Subject: [lro] Re: RANT!
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rob MacCormick wrote:
>I'm gonna take myself off this list. Maybe drop back in when things might 
>actually be ASSOCIATED IN SOME WAY SHAPE OR FORM WITH LAND ROVER 
>OWNERSHIP!!! YES I'M %$###$#@ SHOUTING!!!
>
We are tied together on this list because of Land Rover
ownership.  We are also tied together because of this
tragedy.  Life is not compartmentalized, even though
some people try to live it that way.  That is in my
opinion a crappy way to live.  One thing flows into
another.  Some people had things to say about the
tragedy.  Yes maybe there were some misunderstandings.
This list has had many off topic discussions in the
past and one way or another the talk always comes
back eventually to Land Rovers.  So hopefully you
will stay on this list and just ignore this thread
if you don't like it.

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Rich Williams II" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:51:34 -0700
Subject: [lro] WE STAND UNITED
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car (or Rover), or
step out of your establishment and light a candle.  We will show the world
that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism.  Please
pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.  We need to reach everyone across
the United States quickly.

The message:

WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.

We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:14:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Brakes on my Disco
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Pads are new

Dave
1965 IIa88
1996 Disco

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] The aftermath (yes, it's off topic)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:34:16 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>As for what's going to happen, I have no idea.  I fear that the >American 
>people may clamor for all kinds of civil rights restrictions >that will 
>purportedly help prevent future incidents of this type.  >But I reckon if 
>we do that, the terrorists have won.

Well said Bill. I completely agree with you.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Brakes on my Disco
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 02:01:49 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Dave
I replaced my pads in May and the pedal is still a long way from the floor.
If you want a measurement let me know.
Bill Fishel

----------
> From: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [lro] Brakes on my Disco
> Date: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:23 AM
> 
> 
> Folks
> I was wondering if any other disco owners could answer this question. How low to the floor does your brake pedal go i seem to push almost to the floor 
> 
> Dave
> 1965 IIA88
> 1996 dISCO
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 23
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:04:46 -0400
Subject: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
Reply-To: [email-masked]

1. I do not posess the writing talent to put in writing (or in words) what I
feel, faced with the overwhelming reality that the world has changed, so I
won't try. I noticed that some are getting offended at the straying from
subject matter pertaining to LR's. Please understand that some find writing
a good way to clear their mind and organise their thoughts...

2.  LAND-ROVER CONTENT

- Valdez, the infamous 109, requires a paint job. The safari roof, pirated
from another vehicle, is pink. The Safari door is as well. The bonnet is
pink, the wings are a mixture of brown and white and bondo (S.P.O.T.), the
doors are blue, and the rear tub and bulkhead are sand, with yellow showing
through. Add dents and mud, and you get an awful looking rover.

I have gone over the body and sanded everything down with 180 grit paper on
a random orbit sander. This has roughed up the surface enough, but the paint
(pink) applied rather poorly to the roof is chipping off in small pieces if
I scratch at it. I have featheredged most chips and stopped the process, but
in some areas I am simply unable to get everything properly sanded, and it's
easy to remove it by scratching.

My question is, I know a paint job is only as good as the preparation, but
is it reasonable to assume that primer and paint will adhere well enough to
stop chipping?

Also, last time I painted it, I used tremclad aluminum primer, and tremclad
topcoat. It worked OK, but the top coat was a little soft. I have heard of
people using a normal enamel - again, regular outdoor paint store stuff, but
I have a lot of bare sections of aluminum...

Any recommendations on what type of primer I should use? I would like to
stay with easily available paints, keeping costs to a minimum...

thanks,

J-L

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Matthew Wilson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:35:50 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Jean-Leon,
  I don't have much bare aluminum to paint, so I've been using the Sherwin
Williams 988 in spray cans.  It's a nice self etching primer and goes for
$5.50 (US) a can.  That's about the same as the crap you get in a car parts
store.  Last time I was at the paint store I got into a conversation with a
guy who paints planes.  He swore by the Sherwin Williams 980 (I think) self
etch.  Almost impossible to get off.  So I guess it should adhere pretty
well to our trucks.
Matthew

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
Of Jean-Leon Morin
Sent: 14 September, 2001 14:05
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover

1. I do not posess the writing talent to put in writing (or in words) what I
feel, faced with the overwhelming reality that the world has changed, so I
won't try. I noticed that some are getting offended at the straying from
subject matter pertaining to LR's. Please understand that some find writing
a good way to clear their mind and organise their thoughts...

2.  LAND-ROVER CONTENT

- Valdez, the infamous 109, requires a paint job. The safari roof, pirated
from another vehicle, is pink. The Safari door is as well. The bonnet is
pink, the wings are a mixture of brown and white and bondo (S.P.O.T.), the
doors are blue, and the rear tub and bulkhead are sand, with yellow showing
through. Add dents and mud, and you get an awful looking rover.

I have gone over the body and sanded everything down with 180 grit paper on
a random orbit sander. This has roughed up the surface enough, but the paint
(pink) applied rather poorly to the roof is chipping off in small pieces if
I scratch at it. I have featheredged most chips and stopped the process, but
in some areas I am simply unable to get everything properly sanded, and it's
easy to remove it by scratching.

My question is, I know a paint job is only as good as the preparation, but
is it reasonable to assume that primer and paint will adhere well enough to
stop chipping?

Also, last time I painted it, I used tremclad aluminum primer, and tremclad
topcoat. It worked OK, but the top coat was a little soft. I have heard of
people using a normal enamel - again, regular outdoor paint store stuff, but
I have a lot of bare sections of aluminum...

Any recommendations on what type of primer I should use? I would like to
stay with easily available paints, keeping costs to a minimum...

thanks,

J-L
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:20:44 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I just had a 109 Safari painted at "One Day Paint" in Sacramento. Similar to
Earle Sheibe or Maaco I suppose, but I was stunned at how well it came out. It
was original paint and was dull, so I wet sanded it with 220 until it was a mass
of swirls and bare metal. It has a double skinned Safari top which is a
different color as well.  The interior has a lot of trim that covers the paint
color but the engine bay is exposed, so I went with the same two colors, green
and cream etc. All the sceptics said that it would not be good and would not
last and would be cheap paint. Well there are those that talk and those that do
things. I checked all three and thought that "One Day Paint" was the best
quality, which is probably down to the actual paint gun operator.  The paint is
Polyeurathane and there is a 6 year warranty on the work.  The total bill
because it was "SUV Size" and "two colors" was $590 (Five hundred and ninety
bucks) I took it to them sanded and with the light surrounds removed to be
painted separately and got it back two days later looking like new literally.
(amusing considering the name!) I was so impressed that I immediately had my 88
painted and my Mercedes 450 SL as well.  All were as good.  Have them do it, but
prep' it yourself.
Kind regards,
Mark Pilkington.

Matthew Wilson wrote:

> Jean-Leon,
>   I don't have much bare aluminum to paint, so I've been using the Sherwin
> Williams 988 in spray cans.  It's a nice self etching primer and goes for
> $5.50 (US) a can.  That's about the same as the crap you get in a car parts
> store.  Last time I was at the paint store I got into a conversation with a
> guy who paints planes.  He swore by the Sherwin Williams 980 (I think) self
> etch.  Almost impossible to get off.  So I guess it should adhere pretty
> well to our trucks.
> Matthew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Jean-Leon Morin
> Sent: 14 September, 2001 14:05
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
>
> 1. I do not posess the writing talent to put in writing (or in words) what I
> feel, faced with the overwhelming reality that the world has changed, so I
> won't try. I noticed that some are getting offended at the straying from
> subject matter pertaining to LR's. Please understand that some find writing
> a good way to clear their mind and organise their thoughts...
>
> 2.  LAND-ROVER CONTENT
>
> - Valdez, the infamous 109, requires a paint job. The safari roof, pirated
> from another vehicle, is pink. The Safari door is as well. The bonnet is
> pink, the wings are a mixture of brown and white and bondo (S.P.O.T.), the
> doors are blue, and the rear tub and bulkhead are sand, with yellow showing
> through. Add dents and mud, and you get an awful looking rover.
>
> I have gone over the body and sanded everything down with 180 grit paper on
> a random orbit sander. This has roughed up the surface enough, but the paint
> (pink) applied rather poorly to the roof is chipping off in small pieces if
> I scratch at it. I have featheredged most chips and stopped the process, but
> in some areas I am simply unable to get everything properly sanded, and it's
> easy to remove it by scratching.
>
> My question is, I know a paint job is only as good as the preparation, but
> is it reasonable to assume that primer and paint will adhere well enough to
> stop chipping?
>
> Also, last time I painted it, I used tremclad aluminum primer, and tremclad
> topcoat. It worked OK, but the top coat was a little soft. I have heard of
> people using a normal enamel - again, regular outdoor paint store stuff, but
> I have a lot of bare sections of aluminum...
>
> Any recommendations on what type of primer I should use? I would like to
> stay with easily available paints, keeping costs to a minimum...
>
> thanks,
>
> J-L
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 26
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:26:03 +0200
To: [email-masked]
From: Harald Hansen <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Radio mounts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello, list!

Before I go on to the on-topic stuff, I just want to let you Americans on
the list know that even here, far away in the mountains of Norway, your
tremendous loss has made an impression on us all.  Today, all over the
country, people stopped what they were doing, put their work down and
joined in three minutes of silence.  The radio played a sombre organ piece.
 I, alone in my office, took those three minutes of silence to reflect on
the enormity of it all.  As I did this, I hoped that somewhere, somehow,
someone would in some tiny way be comforted by our small token of solidarity.

LR related:

I've now got a radio cassette, a CD changer unit and a CB radio to stuff
somewhere in the 109.  As there's no room in the center console, I've
tought about making a shelf over the windshield.  If anybody has made
something like this, would they care to comment on how it works in real life?

Regards,
Harald

-- 
Harald Hansen                           #========#       1975 and 1976
SW engineer, strategy gamer, LR owner   |___|__|__\___     Land Rover
E-mail: harald74@online[DOT]no          |  _|  |   |_ |} Series III 109" 
        harald.hansen@kongsberg[DOT]com ""(_)""""""(_)"   Station Wagons

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "Martin Rothman" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:06:15 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi Jean-Leon

>.... Add dents and mud, and you get an awful looking rover.

Or beautiful.  Depends on your perspective, I suppose.

>I have gone over the body and sanded everything down with 180 grit paper on
>a random orbit sander.

>My question is, I know a paint job is only as good as the preparation, but 
>is it reasonable to assume that primer and paint
>will adhere well enough to stop chipping?

Jean-Leon, please DO NOT paint over it.  It is a waste of money and the old 
paint will just keep coming off, taking off your new stuff with it.  Sort of 
like building a solid house on top of a swamp. It will still fall apart. Go 
to Aklands (on Innes) and get some aircraft paint stripper.  It should lift 
the remaining paint right off. Then use an etching primer to ensure 
adhesion.

There are several local paint shops that will mix up any paint you want and 
put it into spray cans for you.  Much more cost effective than buying spray 
cans off the shelf.

However, most cost effective would be to get a gallon and some thinner and 
then put it on with a roller and brush.

I am at work right now, but if you email me offline later tonite, I can send 
you the paint shop names and specific paint types that I used.

Take care,

Martin Rothman

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 28
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:30:38 -0400
From: Stephen West-Fisher <[email-masked]>
Organization: Coastal Data Systems
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] The aftermath (yes, it's off topic)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Realizing that aviation subjects are not always welcome here, but
Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) operations are now approved in the lower
48 as of 4:00 PM Eastern for Part 91 aircraft. Visual Flight Rules (VFR)
expected later this weekend. VFR is allowed for the evacuation of
aircraft from the path of the current storm in FL, GA, and SC. A little
late for me since it passed over this morning. So things are returning
to normal here in the States.

N Forbes wrote:
> 
> >As for what's going to happen, I have no idea.  I fear that the >American
> >people may clamor for all kinds of civil rights restrictions >that will
> >purportedly help prevent future incidents of this type.  >But I reckon if
> >we do that, the terrorists have won.
> 
> Well said Bill. I completely agree with you.

--__--__--

Message: 29
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:11:22 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Martin, as Niall Forbes has often said, a rover with a good paint job that
has suffered the years looks right. A rover with a cheap spray can paint job
that is peeling off looks - cheap. The 109 has changed a lot since the B day
party, a lot of parts were replaced, body wise, and I definitely need to
paint it. It's not a "it looks ugly", problem, it's a "cops are pulling me
over because they think I'm driving a rat trap" issue.

All parts having an accumulation of paint that was peeling were stripped
with Tal-Strip II, an aircraft grade stripper. I sanded the roof down quite
a bit, but I didn't go for stripping it as it is only one layer, and certain
spots, that are chipping.

Peeling will definitely not be a problem on the body, just the roof, and it
is pretty small problem areas. If the common idea is that the paint will
continue to chip, I'll simply keep sanding, or strip the whole darn thing...

J-L

----- Original Message -----
From: Martin Rothman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [lro] Painting the Land-Rover

>
> Hi Jean-Leon
>
> >.... Add dents and mud, and you get an awful looking rover.
>
> Or beautiful.  Depends on your perspective, I suppose.
>
> >I have gone over the body and sanded everything down with 180 grit paper
on
> >a random orbit sander.
>
> >My question is, I know a paint job is only as good as the preparation,
but
> >is it reasonable to assume that primer and paint
> >will adhere well enough to stop chipping?
>
> Jean-Leon, please DO NOT paint over it.  It is a waste of money and the
old
> paint will just keep coming off, taking off your new stuff with it.  Sort
of
> like building a solid house on top of a swamp. It will still fall apart.
Go
> to Aklands (on Innes) and get some aircraft paint stripper.  It should
lift
> the remaining paint right off. Then use an etching primer to ensure
> adhesion.
>
> There are several local paint shops that will mix up any paint you want
and
> put it into spray cans for you.  Much more cost effective than buying
spray
> cans off the shelf.
>
> However, most cost effective would be to get a gallon and some thinner and
> then put it on with a roller and brush.
>
> I am at work right now, but if you email me offline later tonite, I can
send
> you the paint shop names and specific paint types that I used.
>
> Take care,
>
> Martin Rothman
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 30
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:27:22 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] WE STAND UNITED
Reply-To: [email-masked]

And put a flag on your car! I found that if you have a big ass flag, 
read military funeral size, 5'x10'?, that no one tailgates you. I guess
it makes them feel unamerican or something. It did however cause one
minor accident as a lady was leaning out her window shouting "God bless
America", and failed to notice the car in front of her had stopped at
the red light. No damage luckily. 
 Rover content: I have been having a miss lately. It can be heard at
idle, but is only felt at full throttle at high rpm's. I am thinking
the most likely suspects are points or mis-adjusted valves. Any other
things that might cause it? I will start checking in a while.

Rich Williams II wrote:
> 
> Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car (or Rover), or
> step out of your establishment and light a candle.  We will show the world
> that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism.  Please
> pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.  We need to reach everyone across
> the United States quickly.
> 
> The message:
> 
> WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.
> 
> We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

-- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

--__--__--

Message: 31
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:05:51 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Bell Housings
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I've got a 6-cylinder bell housing and would like to get my mitts on a
4-cyl one so I can assembel a healthy spare tranny so I can just do a
pull-and-swap next time I need to (instead of doing what I'm doing right
now--total dissassy of two trannys and a bellhousing swap).

Anyone got a spare 4-cyl bellhousing banging around they want to trade or
sell or donate?

bill, back on topic (finally)

--__--__--

Message: 32
From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:26:30 -0400
Subject: [lro] Series Starter Solonoids - Choices?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On my way home tonight I was thinking to myself how great the rover was 
running and how I was all set to have it inspected (finally got temps and 
gave the plates back to the PO so he can stop paying to have me drive it 
around.. heh)

Well I shouldnt have. Stopped, got gas and no go. Wouldnt restart. I guessed 
it was the starter solinoid but after pushing it away from the pump I was 
presented with a never ending series of lound music or people vacuuming their 
cars. Called a tow, got towed the 2 blocks to my house (was uphill so I wasnt 
going to push it...) and sure enough, no forceful sounding 'click' when I 
crack the key. I used a jumper cable to + on the starter and sure enough it 
whirred (only did it for a fraction of a second tho) I will check the 
positive lead and make sure its getting voltage and should click in the AM. 

Assuming this all proves to be as expected, it is the starter solonoid,is 
there a better then Lucas replacement? Its a later lucas type. I almost wish 
it was the one with the push button override, would love to have pressed the 
button from the engine compartement instead of having to reach in the window 
to key start. I can call RN/BP/AB but I'd like to stop at the local NAPA if I 
could.

Annoyingly, I couldnt get the hand crank to start it. But then I didnt try 
too hard and I had a crowd staring at me. Must have been performance anxiety 
:-)

-Nick

--__--__--

Message: 33
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Series Starter Solonoids - Choices?
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:33:30 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I got mine from NAPA. Something for a F*rd I believe is what I got. Get a good one. Had one follow me home from work once and it decided to drown itself. Still worked as long as it was above freezing.

Bill Fishel

----------
> From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [lro] Series Starter Solonoids - Choices?
> Date: Friday, September 14, 2001 11:26 PM
> 
> 
> On my way home tonight I was thinking to myself how great the rover was 
> running and how I was all set to have it inspected (finally got temps and 
> gave the plates back to the PO so he can stop paying to have me drive it 
> around.. heh)
> 
> Well I shouldnt have. Stopped, got gas and no go. Wouldnt restart. I guessed 
> it was the starter solinoid but after pushing it away from the pump I was 
> presented with a never ending series of lound music or people vacuuming their 
> cars. Called a tow, got towed the 2 blocks to my house (was uphill so I wasnt 
> going to push it...) and sure enough, no forceful sounding 'click' when I 
> crack the key. I used a jumper cable to + on the starter and sure enough it 
> whirred (only did it for a fraction of a second tho) I will check the 
> positive lead and make sure its getting voltage and should click in the AM. 
> 
> Assuming this all proves to be as expected, it is the starter solonoid,is 
> there a better then Lucas replacement? Its a later lucas type. I almost wish 
> it was the one with the push button override, would love to have pressed the 
> button from the engine compartement instead of having to reach in the window 
> to key start. I can call RN/BP/AB but I'd like to stop at the local NAPA if I 
> could.
> 
> Annoyingly, I couldnt get the hand crank to start it. But then I didnt try 
> too hard and I had a crowd staring at me. Must have been performance anxiety 
> :-)
> 
> -Nick
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 34
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:05:15 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: Land Rover logo
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Garrick Olsen" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:06:32 -0500
Subject: [lro] Attack and Logo
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>2.  I had only planned on asking if anyone knows when the LandRover logo
went from black background to green.

I don't know the exact year, but I believe it was sometime during the
mid-to-late 1980s.

_________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721  Fax (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 35
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:27:07 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] RE: Something nice from Canada
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: Kimberly Harding [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:46 PM
Subject: FW: Something Nice from Canada

>"....I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane.  Does any other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?  If so, why don't they fly them?
Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?...."

I heard this read on a radio station in Calgary where I and my film crew
were stuck for a few days until we decided to rent a big van and drive home
yesterday.  According to the announcer, the person who wrote this tribute
is no longer alive, although he didn't say when he had passed on.  So while
it is a very nice piece, I suspect the author did not live to see Airbus
surpass us in the numbers of orders for airplanes or launch an airplane
that will pretty much spell the end of the 747, or see most of the worlds'
airlines flying both American and French planes (well,
British/French/German/Spanish planes).  I'm not quarreling with the
author's sentiment, only bringing the facts up to date.

And in the local Calgary paper on Wednesday, there was a terrific editorial
on what is at the root of this attack by a Canadian columnist.  As an
American, it is not particularly pleasant to read, but it is right on the
mark.  I kept a copy of that paper, and when I retrieve it from our
equipment cases, I'll post the author and date.  If you can find it on the
web somewhere, it's well worth reading, but you won't enjoy reading it.

_________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721  Fax (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 36
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:26:09 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: Today's Tragedies
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Today's Tragedies
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:27:38 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>It looks like you can rub shoulders with the terrorists.  They seem to be
using Canada as an entry point for the US.

Anyone who is truly serious about infiltrating something or somewhere will
always be able to do it.  The fact that terrorists can or do enter the US
from Canada is not a reflection on Canada but simply on geography.  There
are no laws Canada could enact, and no enforcement Canada could undertake,
that will guarantee that no terrorists can cross the border, just as there
are no laws the US could enact and no enforcement the US could undertake
that would completely prevent terrorists from entering the US or
undertaking acts of terrorism once they got here.  You do the best you can,
and that's all you can do.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 37
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:38:30 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: The aftermath
Reply-To: [email-masked]

To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:22:43 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] The aftermath (yes, it's off topic)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>What we as a nation need to ask ourselves is howcome three planeloads of
Americans submitted meekly to nuts with knives and only on one plane was
there (apparently effective) resistance that resulted in that plane never
reaching its target.

If you paid attention to the news as it unfolded, you would know that the
reason the people on the fourth plane did what they did was that someone on
that plane contacted someone on the ground via cell phone, and only then
did they learn that the WTC had been hit by the first two airplanes.  At
that time, the folks on the fourth plane apparently realized that was
probably their fate, too, so they took a vote to see if they wanted to try
to take back control of their plane.  The vote was yes (heard over the cell
phone), after which there were no more cell phone communications with that
plane.  So it can be assumed that only because of the cell phone call which
informed the passengers and flight crew of what they were apparently a part
of did they decide to act.

If you're going to die anyway, you might as well take some action which
might succeed in keeping you alive.  I suspect that had the people on the
first three planes been given the same advance information on what was
about to happen to them, they would have reacted the same way.  I'm
guessing that the people on the first three planes assumed this was "just"
a typical hijacking, with the planes being taken off to some location to
act as a hostage for the highjackers' demands.

So don't assume that the people on the first three plane were meek,
spineless wusses.  They probably had no idea whatsoever what was about to
happen.  You can't decide to do something without information, and only the
people on the fourth plane had it.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 38
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:43:21 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Knee jerk reaction
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I found it rather humorous that the airlines were ordered yesterday to
remove the sissors from the first aid kits on all their airplanes.  On many
aircraft, the first aid kit is stowed right next to the crash ax.  There
have been no orders to remove the crash ax.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 39
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Knee jerk reaction
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:02:29 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Will meals still be served with a knife and fork?

Paul.

----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>

>
> I found it rather humorous that the airlines were ordered yesterday to
> remove the sissors from the first aid kits on all their airplanes.  On
many
> aircraft, the first aid kit is stowed right next to the crash ax.  There
> have been no orders to remove the crash ax.
>
>
> ________________________
> C. Marin Faure

--__--__--

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