Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #72 - 22 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:04:48 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Gelandewagen (William L Leacock)
   2. Cooper SST? (joe mulqueen)
   3. Re: leaf spring anti-friction liners (Faure, Marin)
   4. Re: parabolics (Peter Ogilvie)
   5. Re: Cooper SST? (Bryan Hoult)
   6. Re: parabolics (Faure, Marin)
   7. Re: Gas Mileage and tracedges. (RON WARD)
   8. High-priced 109s (was gas mileage) (Faure, Marin)
   9. Re: A question on swivels-correction (Faure, Marin)
  10. Re: Gas Mileage and tracedges. (Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus)
  11. Re: leaf springs ([email-masked])
  12. Re: Re: leaf spring anti-friction liners (Peter Ogilvie)
  13. Re: leaf springs (Peter Ogilvie)
  14. Re: leaf springs ([email-masked])
  15. Re: leaf springs (Peter Ogilvie)
  16. Re: leaf springs (Peter Ogilvie)
  17. Re: Gas Mileage and tracedges. (Hope Peter)
  18. Re: leaf springs (Hope Peter)
  19. RE: Ex-MOD Rovers - Was: Gas Mileage and tracedges. (Perrone Ford)
  20. Re: tracedges. (G. Mugele)
  21. Re: tracedges. (Peter Ogilvie)
  22. Re: RE: GPS, Notebook  PCs  and Land Rovers (Hope Peter)

--__--__--

Message: 1
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:34:04 -0400
From: William L Leacock <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Gelandewagen
Reply-To: [email-masked]

DaimlerChrysler plans to introduce Mercedes G-Class in U.S.
August 30, 2001 		BLOOMBERG NEWS 
		Stuttgart, Germany -- DaimlerChrysler AG, the No. 5
carmaker, plans to introduce the Mercedes-Benz G-Class off-road vehicle
in
the U.S. this fall to capitalize on the popularity of the M-Class
sport-utility vehicle. 
		The G-Class is made by Steyr-Daimler-Puch AG in Austria
under license for Mercedes-Benz. The company has made 150,000 of the
vehicles in 22 years of production and will build about 6,000 this year.
A
fully equipped G-Class will have a suggested retail price of $72,500 in
the
U.S., the company said. 
		The G-Class predates the boom in sport-utility vehicles of
last 10 years. Originally designed as an off-road competitor to the Range
Rover, the company has moved the vehicle up-market beginning in 1990 with
the introduction of a luxury model. 
		Since its introduction, the G-Class "has developed into a
cult car," said Helmut Petri, head of production of Mercedes-Benz cars,
in a
faxed statement. 
		The company has sold both the M-class and G-class in Europe.
The M-class is built both in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and under license in
Graz,
Austria. The M-Class has a suggested retail price of $36,445 in the U.S.
Mercedes-Benz says it's sold 319,000 of the M-Class since its
introduction
in 1997. 
		DaimlerChrysler shares fell as much 1.52 euros, or 3
percent, to 48.88 euros in Frankfurt. The U.S. shares fell 71 cents to
$45.09.

Regards from Western New York State

  Bill Leacock.

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:10:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: joe mulqueen <[email-masked]>
To: LRO <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Cooper SST?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Speaking of tires, does anyone have any
opinions/experience with this MT similar tire?  I
borrowed a friends 88 and they seemed OK with not a
lot of road roar.
Thanks,
Joe Mulqueen
'67 SIIA 109 SW 
Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
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--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:13:42 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: leaf spring anti-friction liners
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:02:53 -0600
Subject: [lro] leaf spring anti-friction liners
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>A while back there was some discussion about reducing
interleaf friction and anti-friction materials.  For
those interested - there is an article in the October
2001 issue of Four Wheel Drive And Sport Utility Magazine
regarding this topic.  Although the article glosses over
the use of teflon/nylon pads - it does describe more
in-depth several types of liners and provides a contact
for a company that sells them.

You can go this route OR you can do what I've done for 
the past almost-three decades and paint your springs 
periodically with used engine oil.  Way cheap, kinda 
messy, and works a charm.  Never had a spring squeak or 
wear yet, although I do have bushings that need replacing (they're
almost twenty years old, so I can't complain that they're getting 
a bit tired).
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] parabolics
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:19:10 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Do a poll of everyone who has put parabolics on their
>truck and more than 1/2 will tell you they sag in 6 months.

BULL SH*T!!!!  Have two rovers with parabolics and neither have settled, at 
all.  Both have been driven off road heavily loaded, more than a 1,000 
pounds, and the only effect is they ride even smoother.  My 88 is riding on 
very early TI Console springs, think they are genuine Santanas, which have 
been reported to have problems.  I have a slight list with those springs but 
it's been there from day one.  Haven't switched the fronts from side to side 
to see if that cures the problem, though.  The RM's (3 leaf rears) sit level 
side to side with a slight rake in the rear on my 109 regular.  Would 
possibly sit level on a 109 station wagon.

FWIW.  I think 3 leafers on the rear of an 88 defeat the whole purpose of 
putting parabolics on a Series truck.  Why even go to parabolics if your 
going to put too stiff springs on it.  My experience with the 109 regular 
leads me to conclude that I'd go with the three leafers on a station wagon 
and only go to 4 leafers if I was expeditioning it like TAW.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: 30 Aug 2001 16:22:31 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Cooper SST?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Thu, 30 August 2001, joe mulqueen wrote:
 
> Speaking of tires, does anyone have any
> opinions/experience with this MT similar tire?  I
> borrowed a friends 88 and they seemed OK with not a
> lot of road roar.

Not loads of traction either.  I have a pair that I've put close to 20K on.  Even aired down, they don't seem to grab really good.  They aren't all that bad though.  I'm running General Grabber M/T's now, and I think they're equivalent.

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:36:37 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: parabolics
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 10:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Schramm <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] parabolics
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Do a poll of everyone who has put parabolics on their
truck and more than 1/2 will tell you they sag in 6 months.

I have no idea if the above is true or not.  But I can say that the 
factory leaf springs are very sag-resistant.  The factory-
installed rear springs on my 1973 SIII finally started to sag 
in or about 1983, ten years after I bought the vehicle.  I had 
often carried heavy loads in Hawaii (sometimes as much as 
3/4 ton in the back), and I had been towing a 3,000 pound fishing boat 
in Seattle (not a good idea with a Series, and I'd never do 
it again).

I replaced the rears with factory-supplied Model 109 springs with 
helper leaves, and now, almost twenty years later, they have yet 
to loose any of their arch, nor have the leaves separated at all.

The original front springs, while they did not noticeably lose their 
arch, did begin to show a bit of daylight between the leaves in 
the mid-1980s, about fifteen years after I bought the vehicle new.  
I replaced them with the standard, factory-supplied Model 
88 springs.  Fifteen years later, they appear to be in the same 
shape as when I installed them.  However, the vehicle has a little 
easier life these days than during the first ten years I owned it, so 
that probably partially accounts for the longevity of the stock front 
springs.

I have no idea how this compares to parabolics or the other springs 
that might be available for the Series, but I have had no complaints 
whatsoever about the stock springs. While they may be stiffer than 
parabolics, I've never felt I lacked sufficient suspension articulation 
for the rough-road driving I've done over the years.  Someone who 
wants to rock-crawl in places like Moab may well get better traction 
by going to a more flexible spring like parabolics.  But in terms of 
"normal" four wheel drive work, the standard springs seem more 
than capable of dealing with whatever the vehicle encounters.

I have no doubt that the stock springs yield a harsher ride than the 
softer aftermarket springs.  But I didn't buy the thing for a soft 
ride, I bought it to work hard, carry heavy loads when necessary, 
and not break anything in the process.  The Series has such 
poor (by today's standards) road handling that I would be very 
leery of putting softer springs on it, which it seems to me would 
increase its instability in turns even more.  If it had sway 
bars like the Range Rover (or some Range Rovers), that might 
be another story. But in its stock configuration, the stiffer the springs 
on a Series the better, I think.  I noticed the leaning tendency was reduced

noticeably when I went to the 109 springs in the rear.  I debated 
putting 109 springs on the front, but decided there was no reason to 
make the ride any harsher than it already was.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:51:34 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage and tracedges.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Totally irrelevant to what Bryan was saying in his post.  He said the $G or ARB bumper on a Disco or whatever might have more $ in it than his engine.  It's true.  My IIa was a gem, but I have a lot more $ in the ancillaries on my Disco than I had in the entire IIa.  

I've never heard of the myths you describe about coil trucks (discos and RR) automatically making friends and family think you have tons of money.  Besides, who cares if someone does think that?  So far as not wanting to take an expensive rig out to play is concerned, I say put your scratches and dents where your mouth is. 8->

Ron Ward

>>> [email-masked] 08/30/01 17:34 PM >>>

    I wasn't trying to be a hard case.  I was just pointing out that a 
LOT of people (in this case fellow LR owners) tend to have a misinformed 
opinion that coilers are really expensive.  Series guys like to mention 
that we don't want to scratch our precious rigs, or get anything on the 
carpet, etc., because we have these expensive trucks.

    I was only trying to dispel that myth.  I KNOW I could get more for 
a 109 in the same condition as my 91 RR.  Its actually kind of sad. 
 I've seen at least 10 RR Classics in the past 6 weeks selling below 
$7k.  I finally found a place to pick up a series truck for under $7k, 
but they all need extensive work.  I have YET to find a 109 in good 
condition for under $15k.

    I think that Unimog is in my future yet.

-P

RON WARD wrote:

>Come on Perrone, let up on the guy!  Bryan's making a good point and being amicable about his (and my) desire to see more Series rigs out playing with the Disco's and RR's.  He wasn't making a derogatory statement, or can't you tell the difference?
>
>Ron Ward
_______________________________________________
LRO ailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:07:26 -0700
Subject: [lro] High-priced 109s (was gas mileage)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:23:16 -0400
From: Perrone Ford <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage and tracedges.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I have YET to find a 109 in good 
condition for under $15k.

If you limit your search to the US, this 
may well be true.  But if you go to the UK, 
or if you don't want an RHD vehicle, other 
counties in continental Europe or the mideast, 
you can buy 109s dirt cheap.  Many of them 
are in quite good condition, too.  When I was 
filming in Dubai a few years ago, you practically 
had to kick the Series III 109 pickups out of the 
way if you wanted to cross the street.  It seemed 
every construction company, plumber, electrician, 
and back-country merchant had a 109.  There were 
a fair number of 109 Station Wagons around, too.

At one point I asked our driver (we were in a brand new 
Toyota LandCruiser) how much he thought one of 
the Land Rovers would cost.  He said maybe 
a thousand bucks US, maybe less.  One advantage 
of the mideast Land Rovers is that none of them 
seemed to have any rust on them.  True, 
a lot of them had very obviously had very hard 
lives.  But I saw a few that looked pretty darn 
good for their age, and judging by the sound 
as they went by, were running very well.

While going to Dubai to find a 109 may 
not be very practical, getting one out of the UK, 
Germany, France, etc.is quite easy to do if the 
vehicle is more than 25 years old.  If you don't 
go over yourself to deal with the details, you'll have to 
hire an agent, but I suspect you'll still be able to 
get a real nice 109 to the states for well under 
$15,000.

I was recently offered an SIII-109 hardtop 
for US$500 by a good friend in the UK who 
used to hire them out
commercially but today has no more use for 
them.  It doesn't run because the distributor was 
cannibalized for another vehicle a number of years ago.  
Otherwise, it's in tired but serviceable condition.  
There's not enough rust to worry about on the frame and 
bulkhead.  The body is pretty good.  The seats 
are shot, but you can still sit on them.  

So $500 bucks for the vehicle, a few hundred 
bucks for a new distributor, say a couple 
thousand for shipping and "processing," 
another thousand or so for seats and other 
cosmetic doodads, and I'd have a usable 
109 for four or five grand.  I don't need an SIII 
109, and I don't have the time to mess around 
with setting up the shipping, so I turned down my 
friend's offer.  But I mention all this 
because if you're willing to put some time and effort into it, 
you can get a nice 109 for far less than you would 
pay for one in similar shape in the US.

And if you're in Seattle, it's REAL easy to get a 109
imported.  There are these Russian guys who moved 
here not too long ago that specialize in "importing" 
whatever vehicle you might want, as long as it meets 
the US requirements.  (Do to their unique business 
practices, they don't want to mess with anything that 
gets the authorities interested in what they're doing.)  
Unfortunately, they also specialize 
in "exporting" whatever sort of vehicles their customers 
overseas want, a business which has put quite a 
spike in the "missing" car statistics in the last year or so.  
So while they may be delighted to find you a nice 109, 
they may also relieve you of your Range Rover, Lexus, 
BMW, Mercedes, Accord, etc., etc., etc....:-)
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:50:21 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: A question on swivels-correction
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Martin Rothman asked:
>So what if you have Railco Bushes and free wheeling hubs installed?  Do the

>Railco bushes need the same lubrication?

I implied some incorrect data in my original answer, in which I stated I
wasn't 
familiar with the Railco bushing.  I answered as though the Railco bushings 
are an aftermarket option that can be installed in place of the factory
stock 
swivel bushings.  I know there are different bearings that can be used in 
this way, and I incorrectly assumed the Railco was one of them.  As I've
never 
had to disassemble the swivel balls and bushings on my SIII, I can't claim a

hands-on knowledge of their components.

But reviewing the parts drawings and component list 
of the stock swivel ball setup, the upper bushings that were installed by
the factory 
ARE Railco bushings, at least on the Series IIa and III.  Earlier models
used cone 
bushings and seats, but they can be converted to the later Railco setup.  As
the manuals 
for my SIII make it clear the upper swivel bushes require splash lubrication
from the oil in 
the swivel balls, I guess that would answer your question as to whether or
not 
the Railco's need splash lubrication, since Railcos are what the factory put
in my 
vehicle.  So regardless of whether you have a very early Series with cone
bushes or 
a later Series with Railcos, you need to ensure the upper bushings get
sufficient 
lubrication by locking in the freewheel hubs periodically.  If you don't
have locking 
hubs installed, it's not an issue as the upper swivel bushings will be
getting lubed every
 time you drive.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 10
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage and tracedges.
To: [email-masked]
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:02:57 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 8/30/01 5:24:16 PM, [email-masked] writes:

>I have YET to find a 109 in good
>condition for under $15k.

Then you aren't looking in the right places. An ex-MOD 109 can be had, on
the dock and drive it home for 6K or thereabouts in very good condition.

In the USA 109 pickups go for less than 10 in quite good condition.

Want one? I'll happily go to the UK and get it for you.

                         ajr

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:29:33 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

In a message dated 8/30/01 6:40:15 PM, [email-masked] writes:

>you may find the
>front spring hangers plowing into trail obstacles.

not on 36" swampers I wont : )  i will only be extending the hangers 
themselves, not the entire frame horn.

adam

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: leaf spring anti-friction liners
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:35:48 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin, try driving in dust and you'll abrade your oiled springs to nothing, 
quickly.  Use a non sticky lubricant like graphite to keep from turning the 
interspring lubricant into grinding compound.

I find it hard to believe that you are claiming stock springs don't sag.  
Its hard for me to think of a stock sprung rover, especially 109's, that 
weren't sagging to one side or the other including all of mine.  Seems like 
most of the 109's around here had one spring that had gone completely flat 
with the axle was resting on the frame.  The 88's just get lopsided.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
>CC: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: [lro] Re: leaf spring anti-friction liners
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:13:42 -0700
>
>
>From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
>To: [email-masked]
>Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:02:53 -0600
>Subject: [lro] leaf spring anti-friction liners
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>
> >A while back there was some discussion about reducing
>interleaf friction and anti-friction materials.  For
>those interested - there is an article in the October
>2001 issue of Four Wheel Drive And Sport Utility Magazine
>regarding this topic.  Although the article glosses over
>the use of teflon/nylon pads - it does describe more
>in-depth several types of liners and provides a contact
>for a company that sells them.
>
>You can go this route OR you can do what I've done for
>the past almost-three decades and paint your springs
>periodically with used engine oil.  Way cheap, kinda
>messy, and works a charm.  Never had a spring squeak or
>wear yet, although I do have bushings that need replacing (they're
>almost twenty years old, so I can't complain that they're getting
>a bit tired).
>___________________________
>C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:40:24 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

What are buggy springs???  The buggies I used to see on Hopalong Cassidy 
seem to have elliptical springs as the stock rover.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>I think of all the axle drop methods the buggy spring
>idea you are considering is still one of the best.
>Tim Czajka
>1972 Series III 88

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:45:04 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

see:

http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/buggy.jpeg
http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/ramp1.jpeg
http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/ramp2.jpeg

adam

--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:52:14 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Ah yes, over and under ellipticals, that does come back though it might have 
been on Hoot Gibson that I saw them.

Mahalo for the sites.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: [email-masked]

>see:
>
>http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/buggy.jpeg
>http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/ramp1.jpeg
>http://www.roverworx.com/Jeep/ramp2.jpeg
>
>adam

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:12:28 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Talking about restoration books, is the Series Restoration Book worth 
buying??  Borders has one in stock but it is shrink wrapped so I can't look 
inside.  I'm not a novice but haven't jumped into bodywork or rebuilding 
bulkheads, etc. and wonder if it might be worth the money for the not 
exactly novice.  Have the White Bible and more Haynes manuals than I've got 
finger nails on my left hand.  They are all great for the mechanical stuff 
but are lacking when it comes to cutting and pasting.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:36:20 -0700
>
>
>How rusty is rusty?
>
>If it's just one section, most frame sections can be bought separately such
>as the rear crossmember, rear half chassis, front dumb irons, all of the
>outriggers etc.
>
>Go to your local good bookstore and see if they carry any of the Land Rover
>dedicated magazines from Britain (there are at least three), you'll even
>find some one or two of the columnists lurking online here (Hi Frank!)
>
>There are also a couple of good Land Rover restoration books to be had.  
>Get
>the shop manual (Green Bible) too.
>
>The original Land Rover springs were known as semi-elliptical (I 
>think...?).
>They are rather primitive and a bit rough on the spine.  This adds to the
>vehicles *charm*, right :-)
>Parabolics are much lighter and offer a much more soothing ride.  They are
>supposed to offer more axle articulation when the going gets rough 
>off-road.
>
>Have a look at http://www.ovlr.org/
>
>They have lots of good tech advise and links.
>
>Paul in Victoria
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "girasoli" <[email-masked]>
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
>
>
> >
> > Hi Keith,
> >
> > What are the difference between parabolics and leaf springs? Does one 
>make
> > it ride smoother than the other? Which ones last longer?
> >
> > Thanx for your advice!
> > brian
>_______________________________________________
>LRO mailing list
>[email-masked]
>http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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Message: 17
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage and tracedges.
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:53:08 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> >I have YET to find a 109 in good
> >condition for under $15k.
>
> Then you aren't looking in the right places. An ex-MOD 109 can be had, on
> the dock and drive it home for 6K or thereabouts in very good condition.
>

I have had the chance to drive/ride in a ex-OZ-MoD 109 HT that cost 1600
American plus another 1000 to ship to Hawaii.  Don't know how much extra it
would have cost to ship straight from Oz to the west coast...but it's $845
from Honolulu to Long Beach, Sa Fran, or Seattle.
It's green, 12 volt, rhd, 2.25 liter.  Body is very straight, runs strong,
great price.
You can fit 2 109s an an 88 into a 40' container.  UK to the East Coast is
under 2k.  Anyone on this list really think there isn't a 30% markup on all
those 8k exMod rovers you see for sale on LRX?
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] leaf springs
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:54:13 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> >you may find the
> >front spring hangers plowing into trail obstacles.
> 
> not on 36" swampers I wont : )  i will only be extending the hangers 
> themselves, not the entire frame horn.
> 

Will you be keeping the same wheelbase?
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Ex-MOD Rovers - Was: Gas Mileage and tracedges.
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:05:47 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Guys,

	I should have specified that I wasn't talking about the ex-mod types.  I
wanted the county spec or similar.  Something with the full complement of
seats and no bulkhead behind the front seats.  The prices I have seen for
those types of rovers are quite expensive.

	Basically I have decided my next vehicle will be DIRT simple, and cheaper
to maintain.  So I am looking at either an early bronco, a series rover, or
a Unimog.  The Unimog is WAY out in front right now on capability, utility,
and cost.  It's losing out to the other two in practicality, and the ability
to be modified for highway power (though that is being looked at).

	Glad to hear from you guys that have owned old broncos and scouts or those
of you who might have a buddy with a Unimog.  I've been involved with
Unimogs for 3 years now so I am pretty familiar with them, but always love
to hear comparisons.

-P

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Hope Peter
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 10:53 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage and tracedges.
>
>
>
> > >I have YET to find a 109 in good
> > >condition for under $15k.
> >
> > Then you aren't looking in the right places. An ex-MOD 109 can
> be had, on
> > the dock and drive it home for 6K or thereabouts in very good condition.
> >
>
> I have had the chance to drive/ride in a ex-OZ-MoD 109 HT that cost 1600
> American plus another 1000 to ship to Hawaii.  Don't know how
> much extra it
> would have cost to ship straight from Oz to the west coast...but it's $845
> from Honolulu to Long Beach, Sa Fran, or Seattle.
> It's green, 12 volt, rhd, 2.25 liter.  Body is very straight, runs strong,
> great price.
> You can fit 2 109s an an 88 into a 40' container.  UK to the East Coast is
> under 2k.  Anyone on this list really think there isn't a 30%
> markup on all
> those 8k exMod rovers you see for sale on LRX?
> Pete

--__--__--

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:47:05 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] tracedges.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 6:43 PM -0400 8/30/01, Scott Wickham wrote:
>Now I want to put some 235/85/16s on the D90 and I got the same
>story.
>
>   Your putting smaller tires on the D90 than it came with?  I thought the
>D90's had 265/75/16's or are these 32" tall too?

Trac-edge have never been available in that size AFAIK.  The only 
other size with a 32" diameter are the 7.50x16s; which are 32.1" and 
the 235/85/16s are 32" even.

       _
     / o\_         Gerald Mugele
    /   )-- \       [email-masked]
   /    |            Glen Ellen, CA
*** "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] tracedges.
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:51:29 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

235/85/16 were stock on the European D90s.  Don't know if that was true of 
the V8s as well as the diesels, however.  265/75/16 are slightly smaller in 
diameter than the 235/85/16 I believe.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>>   Your putting smaller tires on the D90 than it came with?  I thought the
>>D90's had 265/75/16's or are these 32" tall too?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] RE: GPS, Notebook  PCs  and Land Rovers
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:10:57 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Found my GPS PC companion..... drum roll

the casio MPC-501
shhhhhhwing

http://casiosolutions.com/personalpcs/product.cfm?section=17&product=3915

just what the dr ordered for the GPS only option.

Still going to have to research the
laptop-suspension-protection-cooling-remotemonitor-system
But with the exception of wanting to do video on the road, the casio looks
to be the ideal solution.
Pete

--__--__--

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