Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #67 - 12 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 03:02:20 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Steadycam (was male mind...) (Faure, Marin)
   2. Re: clutch master cylinder (Faure, Marin)
   3. Re: gearbox noise (Faure, Marin)
   4. Re: Steadycam (was male mind...) (Rick Grant)
   5. Re: Gas Mileage? ([email-masked])
   6. Re: gearbox noise (Faure, Marin)
   7. Re: Greasy balls (Faure, Marin)
   8. Re: Greasy balls (Faure, Marin)
   9. pair brand new front springs FS or trade ([email-masked])
  10. A question on Swivels (no grease content) (Rick Grant)
  11. Re: A question on Swivels (no grease content) (Paul Quin)
  12. Re: DIY "lockers" (Paul Oxley)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:40:40 -0700
Subject: [lro] Steadycam (was male mind...)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "CW - Carey Woodings" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] The male mind at work....
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:42:06 -0500
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>>Find a surplus "Steady-Cam" as used by movie-makers.  They've been around
a 
while, should be some used ones out there.  Mount your wine rack where the 
camera should go.

>Anybody remember the first movie filmed with a Steady-Cam?

I believe it was the fight scenes from the original Rocky.  I was trained in
the use 
of a Steadycam back in the late 1970s when they first came out by the
inventor, 
Bob Brown (I think that was his name).  They are a handy tool for certain
kinds of 
shots, but they aren't the "solves all problems" device a lot of people
thought they 
were when they first came out.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:02:23 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: clutch master cylinder
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:37:14 -0700
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] clutch master cylinder
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I've finally got tired of Castrol clutch/brake fluid draining down the clutch pedal and onto my left
foot.  I pulled the wing and confirmed that clutch master cylinder is dribbling.  I have ordered a
rebuild kit which I'll get tomorrow.

Personally, I have never favored rebuilding a hydraulic cylinder on a Land Rover.  It will work for awhile, 
but they never seem to last as long as simply installing a new one.  I get about eight to ten years out 
of new clutch master and slave cylinders, and the set I have in my SIII now has been in there since 1989 or so.  
I tried rebuilding the cylinders the first time they wore out in the late 1970s, and they only lasted a year 
before they started to leak again.  The problem, I was told by the Land Rover mechanics I knew at the 
time, is that the cylinders ovalize very slightly with wear, and while you can hone them till the cows come 
home, you will never get rid of the ovalization unless you rebore them, in which case you need to get 
oversize pistons and seals and the whole thing becomes a hell of a lot more trouble and expense 
than simply buying a brand new cylinder, which is relatively cheap.

>Any hits or suggestions making the rebuild go easier/more successfully?  I know it's pretty straight
forward, but I've not done this before.

If you're bound and determined to rebuild the crappy little thing, MAKE SURE you rebuild or install a 
new slave at the same time.  The new or rebuilt master will put out a lot more pressure, and I guarantee 
you it will be a very short period of time before the slave fails, too, unless it's relatively new.  Rebuilding or 
replacing a slave cylinder while leaving the master alone is okay, but don't do it the other way 
around.  I learned this the hard way, on a trip to the Yukon in 1977. Frankly, based on my experience 
with aircraft hydraulics (Cessnas, etc.) it's a good idea to replace ALL the cylinders in 
a hydraulic system if you're going to replace any.  But if you're going to replace or rebuild the master, 
you're asking for another cylinder failure if you don't replace the slave.  This goes for brakes as well 
as clutches.

The rebuild is child's play.  Just follow the directions in the factory service manual and use Castrol 
rubber grease where the manual says to use it.  It's a 10 minute job to rebuild the cylinder, although if 
you have a LHD vehicle, it's a pain the butt to remove and replace the cylinder itself.  I cut an access door 
in the top of the wing of my SIII, so removing the thing or putting it back takes only a few minutes now.  
Otherwise, you have to take the wing off.  I only did this once before I realized there had to be a better 
way, and came up with one.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:06:38 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: gearbox noise
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:29:25 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Gearbox noise
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>My gearbox has started making an odd noise. It's a squeal that happens when 
I first start to let the clutch out from a stop with the truck in gear or 
sometimes when idling in gear and the clutch depressed. If the tranny brake 
is on, it often won't make the noise. It seems to go away as the 
transmission warms up. It never makes the noise with the clutch fully engaged.

Clutch throwout bearing starting to go, perhaps?

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:08:20 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Steadycam (was male mind...)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> >Anybody remember the first movie filmed with a Steady-Cam?
>
>I believe it was the fight scenes from the original Rocky.

I missed this question in the welter of "male mind" messages last week but 
I just checked www.eastman.org to confirm that the Steadicam was first used 
in a feature film, "Rocky", in 1976.

I was curious about this because some time ago I ran into a Canadian 
National Film Board Producer/Director who claimed that he had built 
something like a Steadicam for a production in the late sixties.  He loudly 
bemoaned the fact that he never patented the idea nor followed through on it.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:20:14 EDT
Subject: Re: [lro] Gas Mileage?
To: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Rick Grant posted:

<< I had such fun converting metric to imperial that I decided to press on 
converting and it turns out that I get roughly 120 furlongs to the firkin. >>

Rumor has it that Dixon Kenner had his 109 speedometer recalibrated to 
Furlongs per Fortnight.

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109
Denver

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:25:40 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: gearbox noise
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:34:14 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Gearbox noise
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>My initial 
guess was throwout bearing.

While it certainly could be something else, it's not a universal 
rule that failing throwout bearings only make noise when the 
clutch is fully depressed.  I've had bad ones on trucks I've used 
that made noise as the clutch was being depressed, or as it 
was being let up, although they made no unusual noises when 
the clutch pedal was held all the way down.

Have you tried putting the transfer case in neutral and the transmission 
in various gears to see if that affects the noise?  If the parking brake is on 
and the transfer case is engaged and the transmission is in one gear or another 
and the clutch is disengaged, nothing will be 
spinning in the gearboxes  So you've pretty much 
eliminated most of the components in the gearbox and transfer case if the noise is still there.  
The throwout bearing will be spinning in this situation, of course.  If you let the clutch out 
with the transmission 
in neutral, the transfer case in high or low and the parking brake on, nothing will be 
spinning in the transmission except the mainshaft (I think, at least on an SIII).

If you try all the possible combinations, and none of them have much or any effect on the 
noise, the culprit would seem to be something forward of the transmission.  The pilot bushing 
is a possible candidate, although I don't think it would do what you describe.  I've had 
a car with a worn pilot bushing, and while it made a mild rattling sound with the transmission in 
neutral and the engine idling, it didn't squeal.  Based on nothing other than your description, 
I would be thinking along the lines of the throwout bearing.  It's easy to change, by the way.  
All you have to do is block up the back of the engine, unfasten the two transmission mounts, 
unfasten the driveshafts and a few other odds and ends and slide the gearbox/transfer case assembly 
back a bit.  I have a set of long threaded rods that I can put in place of the upper bellhousing 
bolts, and the whole thing slides back as though it's on rails (which I guess it is if you think 
about it).  The only time I've ever done it, to replace an incorrect clutch driven plate I had been 
sold, the whole job only took about two hours.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:28:04 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: Greasy balls
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:22:55 -0600
To: "lro-koan.team.net" <[email-masked]>
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Greasy balls.
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>I keep seeing references to a smouldering war between those that grease 
their balls and those that oil them. Their swivel balls, I mean. I do not 
mean to reopen a rift, but I have a question. Is there any external sign of
the 
change from oil-filled to grease-filled? 

Yes. The Land Rover they are attached to will be in the shop on the lift
waiting 
for new swivel bushings......:-)
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:38:55 -0700
Subject: [lro] Re: Greasy balls
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Greasy balls.
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:54:30 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>In truth, either will work just fine.

Not really.  Grease won't get out to the hubs very well, 
and it won't get up onto the upper swivel bushing very well, 
no matter how much of the crap you try to pump in there.  I have 
posed this question to Land Rover people at the factory on 
the tours I took years ago, and they basically said that anyone who 
thinks grease works well in swivel balls (the Series we're talking about 
here) is suffering under a myth propagated by people who favor theory 
over reality.

>With the oil, it flows well when cold, and flushes easily after
off-roading.
The big drawback is that it leaks.

Well, yours might leak, but mine haven't (at the swivel ball seals) in 28
years.  
I have had the occasional hub seal go out, although they seem to last a good

fifteen years before they do, but the swivel ball seals on my SIII are the
originals, 
and there's nary a leak between them.  If the surface of the balls is smooth
and the 
seals are properly installed, there is no reason they should leak at all.

And while our Range Rover is only ten years old, its swivel ball seals have
had 
no leaking problems (so far) whatsoever.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:18:22 EDT
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] pair brand new front springs FS or trade
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I have a pair of brand new, geunine front leaf springs for a petrol 88" in my 
garage.  they were only installed on my rolling chassis for purposes of 
rolling it around.  there has been no realy weight put on them.  these were 
purchased direct from rovers north a few years ago to use for a project that 
has since changed.  i would like to get $175/ pair or trade for pair of very 
good condition 88" rear springs.

thanks,
adam

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:22:11 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] A question on Swivels (no grease content)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I really hope this doesn't precipitate the "take them off" controversey all 
over again but. . .

on the subject of free wheeling hubs. . .

The perceived wisdom is that if you do have them fitted and run with them 
disengaged you should periodically lock them and drive a few miles to make 
sure the swivels are properly lubricated.  Lindsay Porter in his book, 
"Purchase and Restoration Guide" says this. . .

"The makers recommend strongly that the vehicle is run approximately 20 
miles out of every 500 miles in a 4X4 position so that the swivel housing 
oil is enabled to circulate and do its job."

I doubt very much if my Series II was ever subjected to that regime before 
I got it and certainly not very often since then.  Does this really mean 
that if I am say, driving to Vancouver from Calgary that I should stop half 
way, find a dirt trail, lock the hubs, and drop into four wheel and drive 
for 20 miles?

If as I suspect, two wheel locked hub drive is what is meant by that 
statement then I still have to ask whether it is really all that necessary 
at that frequency?  What is there to suffer from lack of lubrication?  The 
interior of the housings is not likely to rust since a fine coating of oil 
will always remain, right?  The seals will retain their suppleness for a 
lot longer than 500 miles of unlockedness, right?

For what it is worth, and I really am not trying to start a fight about 
FWH's, I run in town with the hubs locked, unlocked on the highway, 
otherwise I ignore them.

An aside.  While I have many oil drips and seepages in my beast, (some of 
Exxon Valdez proprotion), my swivel seals are drip and seepage free.  The 
chrome is as smooth as when it came out of the coating tank.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] A question on Swivels (no grease content)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 22:33:40 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I think that what is not lubed when the front drive train is not spinning is
supposed to be the top bearing (bushing?) of the swivel pin - the pins that
allow the wheel to be turned left and right.  If you think about it, it
makes sense.  The only way oil (or grease??) is going to make it up to the
very top of the swivel housing is to be thrown up there by the spinning
drive shaft / U-joint.

It makes sense in theory, but in practice your mileage may vary -

get it?  mileage - vary - locking hubs..

Paul's up too late...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Grant" <[email-masked]>

>
> I really hope this doesn't precipitate the "take them off" controversey
all
> over again but. . .
>
> on the subject of free wheeling hubs. . .
>
> The perceived wisdom is that if you do have them fitted and run with them
> disengaged you should periodically lock them and drive a few miles to make
> sure the swivels are properly lubricated.  Lindsay Porter in his book,
> "Purchase and Restoration Guide" says this. . .
>
> "The makers recommend strongly that the vehicle is run approximately 20
> miles out of every 500 miles in a 4X4 position so that the swivel housing
> oil is enabled to circulate and do its job."
>
> I doubt very much if my Series II was ever subjected to that regime before
> I got it and certainly not very often since then.  Does this really mean
> that if I am say, driving to Vancouver from Calgary that I should stop
half
> way, find a dirt trail, lock the hubs, and drop into four wheel and drive
> for 20 miles?
>
> If as I suspect, two wheel locked hub drive is what is meant by that
> statement then I still have to ask whether it is really all that necessary
> at that frequency?  What is there to suffer from lack of lubrication?  The
> interior of the housings is not likely to rust since a fine coating of oil
> will always remain, right?  The seals will retain their suppleness for a
> lot longer than 500 miles of unlockedness, right?
>
> For what it is worth, and I really am not trying to start a fight about
> FWH's, I run in town with the hubs locked, unlocked on the highway,
> otherwise I ignore them.
>
> An aside.  While I have many oil drips and seepages in my beast, (some of
> Exxon Valdez proprotion), my swivel seals are drip and seepage free.  The
> chrome is as smooth as when it came out of the coating tank.
>
>
>
>                                              Rick Grant

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:26:37 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Organization: AfricanAdrenalin Safaris
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] DIY "lockers"
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Sergi, Michael" wrote:
 
> This is similiar to the technique that the newer Rovers use when they have
> ABS.  The system will apply the brake to the spinning wheel to gain drive on
> the stationary wheel.  I think they call this ATC(Advanced Traction
> Control?).

In practice the system is a bloody disaster, leading to lots of revs and
zero forward motion until the engine eventually cooks off. Oh, and it's
Electronic Traction Control (ETC) which uses the Anti-lock Braking
System (ABS) to do the 'magic'.

In thick sand the wheels are constantly being braked and released whilst
the engine churns away at max revs until it overheats (from the revs and
the lack of forward motion and airflow).

ETC is FTD.

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

--__--__--

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End of LRO Digest