Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #38 - 28 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 03:02:51 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Unleaded fuel (C. Marin Faure)
   2. Re: New Land Rover reliability rating (C. Marin Faure)
   3. RE: Manifold pressure gauge (C. Marin Faure)
   4. Re: Unleaded (C. Marin Faure)
   5. Re: On the road tool kits (C. Marin Faure)
   6. SIIa Bell Housing? (Peter & Julie Rosvall)
   7. sticking clutch cylinder? (Luca Ingianni)
   8. Re: Perrone's recommendation (Tim Thorpe)
   9. Re: Re: Unleaded fuel (John Cranfield)
  10. Re: sticking clutch cylinder? (John Cranfield)
  11. Re: Perrone's recommendation ([email-masked])
  12. Re: Perrone's recommendation (Kirk Hillman)
  13. LR fever (Kirk Hillman)
  14. Re: On the road tool kits (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  15. Valve Setting Dowel Trick? (Rick Grant)
  16. Re: On the road tool kits (Kirk Hillman)
  17. Re: Valve Setting Dowel Trick? (Kirk Hillman)
  18. Re: On the road tool kits (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  19. Re: Valve Setting Dowel Trick? (Rick Grant)
  20. M.O.R.E. Club Land Rover rally (N Forbes)
  21. Re: Re: On the road tool kits (Nick Danger)
  22. Re: Valve Setting Dowel Trick? (David Scheidt)
  23. Hand Cranking (C. Marin Faure)
  24. Re: Hand Cranking (Paul Quin)
  25. Re: Hand Cranking (N Forbes)
  26. Re: Perrone's recommendation (Hope Peter)
  27. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Hope Peter)
  28. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Hope Peter)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:38:23 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: Unleaded fuel
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:49:17 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Unleaded fuel
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> >Marin Faure wrote:
> I would put the Rover 2.25 engine more in the class with the engines
> in the classic cars I referred to.  I certainly wouldn't consider it a
> high-output, high revving, performance engine.  As such, the lead
> vs unleaded issue is probably irrelevant to it.

>If Land Rover 2.25 valve seats have been lapped or recut
unleaded gas will result in seat errosion in a few thousand miles
however if the engine ran on leaded gas for a good number of miles
before switching the lead embedded in the seats will offer protection
for many thousands of miles if the engine is treated kindly.

I have heard this theory, too, and have also had people tell me that it's
not true.  I guess the whole "what does unleaded fuel do to an engine
designed to run on leaded fuel" issue can be summed up using  the words of
a Russian official when asked by a western television journalist why the
Kursk had gone down.  His reply, in a heavy Russian accent, was a shrug
accompanied by, "Is big mystery."

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 00:44:26 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: New Land Rover reliability rating
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 20:31:00 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] New Land Rover reliability rating
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>The BBC web site is reporting the results of a consumer survey in Britain
that found an average of 7% of new cars broke down at least once in the
first two years.  The Land Rover Discovery has the worst rating at 19% or
about one in every five Discos.  My Series has now gone (knock on a huge
pile of wood) 6 years with only one breakdown.  Failed Coil.

My SIII has gone 28 years with only one breakdown, and that was due to my
filing through the hardness on the points in an overly enthusiastic effort
to make them nice and smooth.  The soft metal underneath eroded away within
a few miles, and the engine began to miss badly.  A point change on the
side of Canada's Highway 1 in the Fraser River valley was the cure.  Other
than that, no breakdowns in almost three decades.  It sounds like Land
Rover's forgotten a lot of what they used to know about reliability.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 01:02:17 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] RE: Manifold pressure gauge
Reply-To: [email-masked]

To: "'Faure, Marin '" <[email-masked]>,
   "''Land Rover Mail Group' '" <[email-masked]>
Cc: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:43:42 -0400
Subject: [lro] RE: Manifold pressure gauge
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Marin wrote:
>>One big aircraft engine, the Wright R-3350 Turbo Compound engine, had an
interesting arrangement in that it had two turbochargers per engine, but
instead ofthe turbochargers compressing air and sending it to an induction
system, the turbochargerimpellers were mechanically geared directly back to
the engine's crankshaft.

>These are not "turbo" chargers but centrifugal superchargers. The Merlin
>andmany other aero engines used the same arrangement. The disadvantage of
>thedirect driven centrifugal blwer.....

I re-read this and I think I see where you "went wrong."  I wasn't your
fault:  I didn't word my description clearly.  I didn't mean that the
impellers were driven mechanically from the crankshaft.  That would be, as
you say, a centrifugal supercharger such as the one on the de Havilland
Beaver I fly.  What I MEANT to say is that the Wright R-3350 Turbo Compound
engine had a pair of exhaust-driven "turbochargers" on it.   But instead of
the turbine wheels (I said impellers, which is wrong) being connected to
air-compressing impellers, the exhaust-driven turbines were mechanically
geared back to the crankshaft.  It was Wright's way of harnessing the power
in the exhaust, only they used it to provide direct power to the crankshaft
instead of using it to compress air and increase the volume and/or density
of the fuel-air mixture going to the cylinders.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 01:13:34 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Re: Unleaded
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 11:28:09 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Unleaded
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>If you see the blue puff on startup, evidence of oil draindown and valve
guide wear, expect a valve job in your future.

My SIII did this almost from the day it was new in 1973.  It didn't need a
valve job (for two burned exhaust valves) until 1982 and 125,000 miles.
The west coast Land Rover rep in the early 1970s (as well as other people
who had a lot of Land Rover experience back then) told me the engine will
drain down oil regardless of the conditions of the valve guides.  The
"problem" is the pathetic excuse for valve guide seals Land Rover used in
the engine.  They break down, disappear, or otherwise cease to seal
anything within a very short time of being installed, at which point oil
begins to seep down the valve guides, even on a brand new engine.  The blue
puff is normal, same as it is on any sloppy-tolerance engine (watch a
radial aircraft engine start up sometime if you want to see a blue puff).

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 02:00:27 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [lro] Re: On the road tool kits
Reply-To: [email-masked]

From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:53:05 -0400
Subject: [lro] On the road tool kits
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Friday I leave for Vermont from CT. First trip over an hour or so thats
pretty far from home.

If you can't rely on your Land Rover to run more than an hour without
problems, I wonder if maybe you ought to drive something else on this trip
:-)  When I drove my SIII from California to the northern Yukon, from
Seattle to Idaho and Montana, or when I drive it now from Seattle to
northern BC, I take a basic toolkit, a set of points, a condensor, a coil,
a distributor cap, an extra glass filter jar for the fuel pump, and seal
kits for the master and slave clutch cylinders.  That's it, and the only
thing I've ever needed was the points.  Once.  I also carry a few quarts of
motor oil and gear oil, and a can or two of brake fluid.  The gear oil is
especially important if you have an overdrive, as it tends to blow it out
gradually through the breather hole.  If you don't trust the overdrive, it
might be wise to take the transmission output gear it replaces and the PTO
cover.

The tools I take consist of the toolkit that came with the vehicle when I
bought it new plus wrenches and screwdrivers that aren't duplicated in the
Land Rover kit, a socket wrench set, a roll of electrical tape, and a set
of feeler gauges to set the points.  I also take the factory service
manual, just in case.  A can of WD-40 is handy to free up a greasy
accelerator linkage that gums up and sticks in temperatures below freezing.
I have always just used the screw jack that came with the vehicle; I don't
carry a high-lift jack or hydraulic jack.  I do have a steel plate that I
can place underneath the jack if I have to change a tire on soft ground,
which I never have had to do.  In fact, I've only gotten a flat twice, once
runing over a screw in Carcross, Yukon, and once up in BC.  I once took a
full set of brake shoes and new brake springs on a trip to the Yukon, but
that was only because I knew the high-mileage shoes on the vehicle when I
started would not last the whole trip.  I carry 300 feet of polypropylene
line (not a good choice, by the way) for the capstan winch, plus a 50 foot
cable to hook it to if I need to anchor to a tree or somebody's vehicle.

I'm not sure what good metric wrenches are going to do you, since a Series
Land Rover is not metric.  Or did I misread your post, and you have a newer
Land Rover?  I guess if you have a Discovery, your safest bet is to tow
another Discovery along as a spare, as the Discovery has wracked up an
impressive record of failing in an almost infinite number of ways.

I used to think I should carry an extra set of halfshafts, but I've never
gotten around to buying them, and I've never had one break, so I guess I'll
just keep putting it off.   But I'm real easy on a 4wd when driving on
rough ground.  I was taught at an early age by the foreman on a ranch I
worked on to drive off road in the lowest gear I had and let the vehicle
just idle along.  So that's the way I always drive off-pavement.  So far,
I've have never had anything on any 4wd vehicle I've driven break due to
excessive strain or shock.  Someone who drives more aggressively might be
wise to carry spare halfshafts, as they are the weakest component of the
stock Series driveline.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Peter & Julie Rosvall" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 07:09:52 -0300
Subject: [lro] SIIa Bell Housing?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hello All!

Does anyone know if a SIIa bellhousing will fit a SIII gearbox? Obviously
there would be some clutch slave cylinder line repositioning but is there
any issues with the layshaft etc (actually fitting it and making it work)...

Any opinions on this change? My goal is to remove the troublesome SIII throw
out bearing with the better/stronger setup of the SIIa.

Thanks,

Peter Rosvall
Wolfville, Nova Scotia

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: Luca Ingianni <[email-masked]>
To: lro <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:52:29 +0200
Subject: [lro] sticking clutch cylinder?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Hi all,

while standing at a red light recently with the clutch pedal depressed the 
Rover (SIII) suddenly started to creep along and the gearbox wouldn't go 
in neutral so obviously the clutch was slipping. A few pumps on the pedal 
fixed that, and the problem hasn't reappeared since. What was that? Bad 
seals on the slave cylinder or something? The clutch fluid reservoir is 
still pretty full but I don't know how old the fluid is, for all I know it 
could be years old and have attracted a considerable amount of water. So 
what am I to do about this? The problem is, I wanted to start on a trip 
around Europe in about a week and I wouldn't want my clutch to fail on me 
somewhere, but OTOH if I try to fix it now and don't do it right I might 
run into even more trouble (as the saying goes, never touch a running 
system, and it DOES run usually). So can any of you guess what it is, how 
to fix it (keep in mind that I've never even looked at the inside of a 
clutch, much less worked on it) and whether it's reasonable to put it off 
another 2 months and a few 1000km?

On a different question: I wanted to buy glow plugs recently (it's the 
2.25 diesel) and the manual says I need Champion AG45, but the parts guy 
(at ATU, German car parts chain) looked it up in the computer and said 
Champion 171. Are the AG45 out of production, and are the 171 really 
compatible?

TIA & have fun,
	Luca
- -- 
There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a
suitable application of high explosives.

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:31:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Tim Thorpe <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Perrone's recommendation
Reply-To: [email-masked]

David Scheidt <[email-masked]> wrote:

>On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Kirk Hillman wrote:
>:
>:Since I have the same carb as Peter I am interested in Perrone's advice
>:regarding his situation.  As such I decided I would do a compression test
>:(not a leak down) to start.  What I saw was most disturbing.  125,75,75,85.
>:How is this possible?  I am getting more power from the engine than I ever
>:have and more torque too... and it's running extremely rich.  So how could
>:my motor be in such poor shape.  My only conclusion at the moment is that I
>:somehow screwed up the compression test.  Maybe the tester is bad?  What is
>:the procedure for testing compression properly?  Since I will be doing a
>
>Make sure the battery is charged.   Run the engine till warm, then shut off.
>Remove all the aprk plugs, set the valve clearances.  Screw the tester into
>first cylinder, crank the engine a couple times.  Record the reading.
>Repeat.  If some of the cylinders  seem low, pour a tablespoon or so of
>motor oil down the cylinder, and retake the reading.  If it goes up, expect
>worn or stuck rings.  If it doesn't it's a vavle problem.

A couple of additions to that useful advice, since inter-
cylinder consistency is the question in this case.

1) The gauge has a non-return valve, and will increment its
reading for the first several cranks. It can help to have a
helper crank the starter while you watch to ensure that it
peaked and stayed for each cylinder, or at least give each
an adequate and approx equal number of turns.

2) Throttle setting the same in each case and preferably wide
open, both not to flood the engine and to ease the entry of the
air being compressed.

Tim.
------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Thorpe	                        Tel: +44 1223 240366 
[email-masked]                  Fax: +44 1223 414402
------------------------------------------------------------

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 08:46:23 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Unleaded fuel
Reply-To: [email-masked]

It aint no theory!
John and  Muddy

"C. Marin Faure" wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:49:17 -0300
> From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Unleaded fuel
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> 
> > >Marin Faure wrote:
> > I would put the Rover 2.25 engine more in the class with the engines
> > in the classic cars I referred to.  I certainly wouldn't consider it a
> > high-output, high revving, performance engine.  As such, the lead
> > vs unleaded issue is probably irrelevant to it.
> 
> >If Land Rover 2.25 valve seats have been lapped or recut
> unleaded gas will result in seat errosion in a few thousand miles
> however if the engine ran on leaded gas for a good number of miles
> before switching the lead embedded in the seats will offer protection
> for many thousands of miles if the engine is treated kindly.
> 
> I have heard this theory, too, and have also had people tell me that it's
> not true.  I guess the whole "what does unleaded fuel do to an engine
> designed to run on leaded fuel" issue can be summed up using  the words of
> a Russian official when asked by a western television journalist why the
> Kursk had gone down.  His reply, in a heavy Russian accent, was a shrug
> accompanied by, "Is big mystery."
> 
> ________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>    Seattle, WA
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 09:03:28 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] sticking clutch cylinder?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

You have clutch hydraulic problems on the horizon. The symptoms you
describe indicate an internal leak in the master cylinder.
Either install new master and slave cylinders or rebuild
kits for both. Remember to use the correct fluid!!
John and Muddy

Luca Ingianni wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> while standing at a red light recently with the clutch pedal depressed the
> Rover (SIII) suddenly started to creep along and the gearbox wouldn't go
> in neutral so obviously the clutch was slipping. A few pumps on the pedal
> fixed that, and the problem hasn't reappeared since. What was that? Bad
> seals on the slave cylinder or something? The clutch fluid reservoir is
> still pretty full but I don't know how old the fluid is, for all I know it
> could be years old and have attracted a considerable amount of water. So
> what am I to do about this? The problem is, I wanted to start on a trip
> around Europe in about a week and I wouldn't want my clutch to fail on me
> somewhere, but OTOH if I try to fix it now and don't do it right I might
> run into even more trouble (as the saying goes, never touch a running
> system, and it DOES run usually). So can any of you guess what it is, how
> to fix it (keep in mind that I've never even looked at the inside of a
> clutch, much less worked on it) and whether it's reasonable to put it off
> another 2 months and a few 1000km?
> 
> On a different question: I wanted to buy glow plugs recently (it's the
> 2.25 diesel) and the manual says I need Champion AG45, but the parts guy
> (at ATU, German car parts chain) looked it up in the computer and said
> Champion 171. Are the AG45 out of production, and are the 171 really
> compatible?
> 
> TIA & have fun,
>         Luca
> - --
> There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a
> suitable application of high explosives.
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAjttJXIACgkQ7uxRR5vRvys8JACeMO3Hbs3irke2hTFw/gAKr2wZ
> rBAAniuSN+lBnhdZDvBOZ8N4XVsCtwga
> =ZXoF
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 11
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:25:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Perrone's recommendation
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Kirk,
 A graph can't cover all carbs except in the broadest since because the
vacuum signal the jets "see" is a function of Venturi profile.  This is
almost never the same from one model of carb to the next.  In their good
carbs (DCO, DCOE, IDA) Weber offers different profiles in main and
booster Venturi, so a single graph at best could be only a starting
place.  If you are going to do much carb tuning I would recommend "Weber
Carburettors" by John Passini,  two small books.  1 is theory, 2 is
tuning&maintenance.  Even after reading  you will still have to as he
says "suck it and see"   You will find that all adjustments are inter
related  so if you get the wrong starting place you may get the other
adjustments to compensate but it won't be as good as it could.  It is an
art, and one that is dying.

Chris
On Sat, 4 Aug 2001 11:29:11 -0600 "Kirk Hillman"
<[email-masked]> writes:
> jets.
> Is this graph applicable to all carbs or do they react differently?  
> (This
> is assuming the jets are numbered according to orifice size and not 
> flow)
> The reason I would like to know is that I am having trouble figuring 
> out
> what my jets should be.  If I could hear what other people are 
> using
> successfully at different altitudes then I might get an idea for 
> where I
> should start.  Am I being too hopeful?
> 
> Kirk
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Perrone's recommendation
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:41:03 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Chris,
    You are right about art.  I changed the idle jet on the primary circuit
and wow, it idled just beautifully!  No pops or misses, the best I have ever
heard out of any of my vehicles.  I thought I had hit the sweet spot.  I was
wrong.  I got extremely rough running on deceleration and no power at higher
speeds.  My top speed was limited to about 85 km/h.  I get the feeling that
unless I fluke out I won't be able to match a good set of jets for nice
running.
    There is a guy down the road that races cars.  Apparently his  NA 454 is
faster than some guy's turbocharged EFI 502.  I'm told it's because he has a
feel for dialling in and matching components.  I don't know if he has that
'good o'l' mechanic's feel or because he has heard a lot about his
particular set-up.  Anyway, while driving by yesterday I stopped to ask for
his help.  He is going to call on me sometime this week to take a look.
    I would still be interested in anyone's jet numbers for interest's sake.
Hopefully this will all be futile if we get the fuel injection going in the
next couple of weeks.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 09:06:02 -0600
Subject: [lro] LR fever
Reply-To: [email-masked]

    I would just like to say that my LR fever is reaching critical mass.  I
have brakes that don't work, and no drums or shoes to fix it.  I have a
Weber in a terrible state of tune and no jets to remedy it.  And I have a
desire to put in Suffix B low gears with no gears to install.  I don't think
I have felt this hard up in my life!

    BTW, what are the shaft sizes of a SI and a Suffix C-D transfer case
with respect to the Low gears?

--__--__--

Message: 14
Subject: Re: [lro] On the road tool kits
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 01 09:57:57 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

For an on the road tool kit you probably don't need more than a AAA card 
and a phone.  But a spare fan belt, tune up kit, and some hoses  along 
with the tools to replace them might not hurt.

An off road expedition type trip looks like what David was addressing in 
his reply and what I would like to build upon.

>My spares kit is more or less like this:
<<SNIP>>

>wheel bearings (just because I have them,
<<SNIP>>
>spare cylinder head (only on trips to Ottawa...)
>random collection of nuts, bolts and washers

>My tools are something like this
<<SNIP>>
>This is excessive.  I admit that. 

Gee and I'm going to advise more stuff.

For the head you didn't mention a head gasket set nor a torque wrench 
(Stay close to me on the trail, a torque wrench is part of my on board 
tool kit).

For the wheel bearings you didn't mention a wheel bearing retaining nut 
socket, spare locking washers and the felt seals (something that also 
lives in my LR).

Something you didn't mention was a pair of new rear 'U' bolts & fixings.  
They can and do break on the trail.  Though I have not broken one since I 
read the part in the factory manual that said they should be retorqued 
every 12 thousand miles.  Well that and since I switched from stock 1/2 
inch 'U' bolts to 9/16ths harder steel 'U' bolts.  But in the previous 20 
years of driving the Green Rover on the trail I broke rear 'U' bolts 
twice and have seen it happen to others.

You didn't mention spare engine mounts.  They can be very handy things to 
have out in the field.  I was once by myself up a lonely Death Valley 
side canyon when I lost both front engine mounts.  My engine was 
basically sitting loose inside the compartment.  It took me 2 days to 
drive out of that canyon building a smooth trail in front of me and 
levering the engine back into sorta alignment frequently.  And I'd spend 
less that two hours going in.

Ever since then I've carried 2 new spare engine mounts with fixings plus 
a short jack capable of lifting the engine to install mounts.

Also I didn't see mention of a spare fan belt.  You can not get very far 
without the water pump turning.

A can to two of radiator stop leak can come in handy after a puncture.  
And bailing wire makes a good field repair for broken exhaust hangers.

A set of jewelers files can repair threads, resurface points in an 
emergency and do any number of small modifications.  

If you have an overdrive you need to carry the original transfer case 
back plate, rear main output gear, special washers and the socket for the 
the main shaft output nut.

Also an assortment of punches & chisels might come in handy.

I consider both oil and grease guns to be essential.  You should regrease 
all your fittings as soon as practical after deep water crossings.  Even 
prop shaft 'U' joints can retain a lot of water inside.

>random collection of nuts, bolts and washers

I used to do this and found that the size I didn't have with me is the 
one that broke or fell off.  After getting home from a desert run only by 
the grace of the bolts someone else had in a custom bumper extension I 
changed my random collection into a systematic collection of fixings.

I now carry this brief case sized plastic box with lots of little divider 
compartments.  My collection now includes: 4 each of grade 8 fine thread 
bolts in different lengths from 1/4 inch through 9/16ths inch dia; 4 ea, 
grade 8 fine thread and course thread nuts and lock nuts for each bolt 
dia; four each flat and lock washers for each dia plus an assortment of 
fender washers.  The collection includes an assortment of non-SAE bolts 
and nuts that fit on a series rig.  Also in the box is a spare new rubber 
brake hose, lock washers for the hub nuts, felt washers for the hubs, 
assorted LR lock tabs, spare castallated axle nut, an assortment of 
cotter pins, assortment of crimp on electrical connectors, enough new 
shock bushings to do one shock, special bolts that pin a leaf spring pack 
together (I had to rebuild a set in the field once after a rear 'U' bolt 
let go), spare diff pinion nut & washer (don't ask), a spare wheel 
cylinder bleed screw, spare tyre air nipple, plus a couple of assorted 
hardware odds & ends.

I've basically become a good person for a series rig to be with if they 
break.  But a coiler with metric fixings is SOL.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:06:00 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Valve Setting Dowel Trick?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Does anyone remember, or use, a technique when setting valves that involves 
putting a dowel or a stick either in a cylinder plug hole or across the 
rockers somehow to enable someone working alone to easily detect when 
valves are fully open or closed?

Adrian Redmond (where is he anyway) described it on this list a few years 
ago and I can't remember the details.  I think I could figure it out if no 
one has a clue what I'm talking about.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] On the road tool kits
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:01:08 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW,
    You are absolutely right!  How about an offer?  I will follow you for
the next six months like a second shadow.  If I had enough failures, would I
be able to consider my LR mechanically rebuilt?  :-)

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Valve Setting Dowel Trick?
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:07:39 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Wasn't he resting the dowel across the top of the valve rockers?

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 18
Subject: Re: [lro] On the road tool kits
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 01 10:34:28 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>TAW,
>    You are absolutely right!  How about an offer?  I will follow you for
>the next six months like a second shadow.  If I had enough failures, would I
>be able to consider my LR mechanically rebuilt?  :-)
>
>Kirk

Sounds good to me but I need two things to happen first.

1. Fuel to get back to pre-manufactured shortage prices

2.  The economy to bounce back with more small companies wanting new or 
renovated web sites so my income can go back up.

'Till then I'm not going much of anywhere.  The good news is that I'm not 
breaking Rover parts.  The bad news is that I'm not out breaking Rover 
parts.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

--__--__--

Message: 19
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:55:44 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Valve Setting Dowel Trick?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

At 11:07 05/08/01 -0600, Kirk Hillman, wrote

>Wasn't he resting the dowel across the top of the valve rockers?

Yeah, now that you mention it I think that's what it was.  The principle 
being that the smallest change in valve position would show up as a large 
deflection in the end of the dowel.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:23:55 +0000
Subject: [lro] M.O.R.E. Club Land Rover rally
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Just wanted to let everyone know about the M.O.R.E. club's upcoming Labour 
Day rally. Hope you can join us.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

========================================================

M.O.R.E LABOUR DAY 2001

M.O.R.E (Maritime Organisation of Rover Enthusiasts) is proud to
announce the Labour Day Rally 2001.
This event is probably one if the biggest Land Rover events in Atlantic 
Canada. Everybody who owns a Land Rover or is interested in the brand Land 
Rover is invited to join this unique event.

Dates:
Labour Day Rally is a three day event, from Friday August 31 to Sunday 
September 2, 2001.

Location:

This year the Labour Day rally will be held in beautiful and historic 
Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, Canada. This site is close to the Digby ferry 
and not too long a drive from the Yarmouth-Bar Harbour and Yarmouth-Portland 
ferries.

Accommodation:

On Site camping and fully equipped cottages available.

The event:

A unique experience hardly describes Labour Day Rally. Between 35-50 Land 
Rovers are expected. From young and old, Series I and Range Rover, almost 
every kind of Landy and driver will be there.
The M.O.R.E Labour Day team has been working hard to offer you a wide
variety of trials. From easy/scenic/historic to an extreme off road trial, 
something for everybody will be available.
A night run is also scheduled, just to give you a feeling of what it is like 
to be on excursion at night. Of course Labour Day Rally is a completely 
non-competitive event, attemptng to use Trea Lightly practices. On every 
trail, experienced trial leaders and long time Land Rover owners will guide 
you through the trial and help you out if necessary. Driving is not the only 
purpose of this get together of LR enthusiasts. Just meeting all the 
different people from all over North America and chatting with them around 
the campfire after the trail runs is more than a treat. And if you want to 
take a break from the Land Rovers you can enjoy a day with your Family at 
the Upper Clements Theme Park, Wildlife Park, Golf course, the historic Fort 
Anne or just take a walk through the beautiful town of Annapolis Royal.
All these highlights alone are worth a visit. And if you don't have a Land 
Rover or you would just like to come along with somebody more experienced 
than you, feel free to ride along with a fellow enthusiast.

There is so much to say about Labour Day rally, but in order to fully
experience a real adventure, you'll have to come!

For more information about the event and registration check out the MORE web 
page:

http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/design.fort/more

P.S Please Register as soon as possible.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: Nick Danger <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: On the road tool kits
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:02:41 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sunday 05 August 2001 05:00, C. Marin Faure wrote:

> If you can't rely on your Land Rover to run more than an hour without
> problems, I wonder if maybe you ought to drive something else on this trip

Its not that I CANT rely on it. I just never have before. I've only had it 
one year (little less) and this is the first drive I've done thats more then 
an hour or so from home. (And will be far from all my regular resources) I've 
never been stranded yet, and I dont plan to, in any car I've ever driven. I 
HAVE driven it longer then an hour, mostly combination highway and stop/go 
city traffic. It gets damn hot in there...So I am not too fearful of a 
breakdown. And I do always have AAA and a cell phone.

I always had a spare set of electrics, carb cleaner, starer fuel and a few 
wrenches/sockes in the VW. Only ever needed them once, to quicky discover I 
was out of fuel (and called my brother to bring me some) 

So think of this tool kit as more a way to settle some jitters. I DO plan on 
going on some off the off road trails at Roverfest, and while I dont suspect 
anything tragic to happen, I just dont want to be stopped on a trail and have 
someone say 'didnt you bring extra <whatevers>? No one goes to one of these 
events without a spare.'. 

On a good note I was going to bring a cooler of beverages and a pack of cards 
if anyone is up for late night poker.

> I'm not sure what good metric wrenches are going to do you, since a Series
> Land Rover is not metric.  Or did I misread your post, and you have a newer

Nope, you read right. Used to thinking metric from both the VW and the 1/2 
taken down (not even to rebuild stage) Porsche thats in the garage. So most 
of my tools are Metric. Forgot to change over. 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

-Nick

--__--__--

Message: 22
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:33:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Valve Setting Dowel Trick?
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Rick Grant wrote:

:
:Does anyone remember, or use, a technique when setting valves that involves
:putting a dowel or a stick either in a cylinder plug hole or across the
:rockers somehow to enable someone working alone to easily detect when
:valves are fully open or closed?

I don't know about for setting valves, but a dowel (or a bic pen) down a
plug hole is useful to find TDC.  did this just yesterday on a VW microbus,

-- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

--__--__--

Message: 23
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:59:50 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] Hand Cranking
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The five or six year old battery in my SIII finally gave up the ghost last
night.  My wife and I went to dinner and a movie with friends, and while
the starter was obviously having a tougher time of it than usual, the
engine started on the second or third turn as always.  But that was all the
battery had left in it.  This morning I pushed the vehicle out of the
garage to give me room to put a charger on the battery, but it didn't help.
I suspect a cell or two has gone.  Anyway, I needed to put the Land Rover
back in the garage, which meant pushing it a bit uphill.  Being lazy, I
decided to try to start the engine with the hand crank through the capstan
winch.  I haven't had to do this for ages, and I was a bit skeptical it
would still work, given the age of the vehicle.   I'd done it back in the
'70s a few times when I had to wait for the next paycheck to buy a new
battery, but that was when my SIII was relatively new.

So I was quite delighted this afternoon when after yanking the crank
through three compression strokes, the engine fired right up on the fouth
pull.  This is exactly how it had worked when it was new- about three or
four pulls through compression strokes and the engine would start up on the
next pull.

It will only do this when it's cold.  I learned the hard way back when I
was too broke to buy a new battery that if the engine's hot, you can crank
as long as you like and the thing won't fire.  But if the engine's cold,
three or four pulls and Bob's your uncle.

So I guess there's something to be said for old, low-tech, sloppy engines
after all.  If the battery dies in your fancy Ford Excursion, you're
screwed unless someone comes along to jump start you.  But the old 2.25 can
be yanked into life by hand (if you can't push start it, which I couldn't
in this case).

The early Range Rovers had a hand crank hole in the grill, but I've never
met anyone who had occasion to hand crank one, so I don't know if it was as
easy as cranking the 2.25 or very difficult.  I assume it was possible to
hand start the early carburetted version of the V-8 or Land Rover wouldn't
have bothered accomodating the crank.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Hand Cranking
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 17:47:38 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Did the diesel model Series come with a hand crank too?  I imagine that a
diesel would be a bit more of a challenge to turn over by hand...

Paul in Victoria.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>

>
> The five or six year old battery in my SIII finally gave up the ghost last
> night.  My wife and I went to dinner and a movie with friends, and while
> the starter was obviously having a tougher time of it than usual, the
> engine started on the second or third turn as always.  But that was all
the
> battery had left in it.  This morning I pushed the vehicle out of the
> garage to give me room to put a charger on the battery, but it didn't
help.
> I suspect a cell or two has gone.  Anyway, I needed to put the Land Rover
> back in the garage, which meant pushing it a bit uphill.  Being lazy, I
> decided to try to start the engine with the hand crank through the capstan
> winch.  I haven't had to do this for ages, and I was a bit skeptical it
> would still work, given the age of the vehicle.   I'd done it back in the
> '70s a few times when I had to wait for the next paycheck to buy a new
> battery, but that was when my SIII was relatively new.
>
> So I was quite delighted this afternoon when after yanking the crank
> through three compression strokes, the engine fired right up on the fouth
> pull.  This is exactly how it had worked when it was new- about three or
> four pulls through compression strokes and the engine would start up on
the
> next pull.
>
> It will only do this when it's cold.  I learned the hard way back when I
> was too broke to buy a new battery that if the engine's hot, you can crank
> as long as you like and the thing won't fire.  But if the engine's cold,
> three or four pulls and Bob's your uncle.
>
> So I guess there's something to be said for old, low-tech, sloppy engines
> after all.  If the battery dies in your fancy Ford Excursion, you're
> screwed unless someone comes along to jump start you.  But the old 2.25
can
> be yanked into life by hand (if you can't push start it, which I couldn't
> in this case).
>
> The early Range Rovers had a hand crank hole in the grill, but I've never
> met anyone who had occasion to hand crank one, so I don't know if it was
as
> easy as cranking the 2.25 or very difficult.  I assume it was possible to
> hand start the early carburetted version of the V-8 or Land Rover wouldn't
> have bothered accomodating the crank.

--__--__--

Message: 25
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Hand Cranking
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 02:34:53 +0000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Nice story Marin. What's even nicer than the fact that the LR started up on 
the hand crank is the fact that you and your wife took the SIII out to 
dinner rather than the Range Rover or BMW.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
--author unknown

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

--__--__--

Message: 26
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Perrone's recommendation
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:56:46 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>     I would still be interested in anyone's jet numbers for interest's
sake.
> Hopefully this will all be futile if we get the fuel injection going in
the
> next couple of weeks.

My primary was 140 my secondary was 135.  Both of my air corrector jets are
155

Pete

--__--__--

Message: 27
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:43:09 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> coil is strong, so try opening UP the gap to .040, .045, and .050 and
> testing the spark.  If the coil can still provide good spark, then you
will
> in effect burn more of the fuel in the cylinder.  This will give you a lot
> more power per stroke and may smooth out the running some.  Open up the
> spark gap in small increments until you start missing, which means the
spark
> is no longer jumping the gap consistently.
>
>
Ok, my jets are 135, 140, the air jets are 150.
Changed the plugs out and regapped to .04
Timing is now at 10 degrees advance.
I also cleaned about 1/4" of mud out of the carb bowl.  Think this was
effecting the running also hahahahaha
Mud is left over from when I drowned the vehicle on the first weekend after
putting the carb and exhaust on.  Pulled the plugs to eject the water, but
never realised the stuff had gone down the vent into bowl.
Didn't get much of a chance to drive around so not sure how it's going to
perform.  Will let you know.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 28
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:50:41 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Peter,
>     Did you know that the Weber idle jet is responsible for 80% of
throttle
> on the 32/36?  Most of the time an idle circuit is only that, an idle
> circuit.  Apparently that is how they are supposed to be more efficient.
I
> guess this means that I should look into my idle jets first rather than
the
> mains?
> Kirk

Yes very interesting.  And no I didn't know that.  If the idle screw
controls the amount of fuel that is going through the idle circut then why
do they have different size jets?
And if you change out the fuel jets should you also change the air jets?
Pete

--__--__--

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