Subject: LRO digest, Vol 1 #36 - 30 msgs

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 03:03:48 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Milk coming out of my nose. (Kirk Hillman)
   2. Re: those thingys for posers (Frank Elson)
   3. Re: Kids and Rovers (Frank Elson)
   4. Re: those thingys for posers (Frank Elson)
   5. Re: windshield protection not just for trees! (Frank Elson)
   6. GPS prices (A. P. (Sandy) Grice)
   7. RE: gobbledegook at end of my posts (Michael Hatton)
   8. Re: Howling 109 SIII (Mike Rogers)
   9. RE: gobbledegook at end of my posts (David Scheidt)
  10. Re: RE: Manifold pressure gauge (Stephen West-Fisher)
  11. Re: Odd mess in air filter (Kirk Hillman)
  12. Re: Re: Unleaded fuel (John Cranfield)
  13. RE: GPS unit suggestions and test (Simon J. Harding)
  14. RE: gobbledegook at end of my posts (Easton Trevor A)
  15. Re: those thingys for posers (TeriAnn Wakeman)
  16. New Land Rover reliability rating (Rick Grant)
  17. Re: Milk coming out of my nose. ([email-masked])
  18. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Hope Peter)
  19. RE: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Perrone Ford)
  20. Re: those thingys for posers (Kirk Hillman)
  21. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Kirk Hillman)
  22. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Hope Peter)
  23. Re: GPS unit suggestions and test (Hope Peter)
  24. RE: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Perrone Ford)
  25. RE: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Perrone Ford)
  26. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Kirk Hillman)
  27. RE: Timing question (My running problem -update) (David Scheidt)
  28. Re: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Kirk Hillman)
  29. RE: Timing question (My running problem -update) (Perrone Ford)
  30. Re: those thingys for posers (TeriAnn Wakeman)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Milk coming out of my nose.
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 12:36:33 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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List,
    Does anyone have an idea of indicators that I might look for =
regarding what the problem is with my engine?  If you recall I am =
getting what I believe is an oil/gas residue blown out of the air intake =
side of the carb.  It became dramatically evident when I noticed that I =
used about 1/3 of a tank to drive about 35 km.  Is there something I =
should look at or pay attention to before one goes and pulls the motor =
apart?  Help, please.  =20

Kirk

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3019.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>List,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Does anyone have an idea of =
indicators that=20
I might look for regarding what the problem is with my engine?&nbsp; If =
you=20
recall I am getting what I believe is an oil/gas residue&nbsp;blown out =
of the=20
air intake side of the carb.&nbsp; It became dramatically evident when=20
I&nbsp;noticed that I used about 1/3 of a tank to drive about =
35&nbsp;km.&nbsp;=20
Is there something I should look at or pay attention to before one goes =
and=20
pulls the motor apart?&nbsp; Help, please.&nbsp;  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Kirk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message: 2
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:13:07 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I fitted branch deflectors after a trip to the Lake District where one track
smashed my front worklight (mounted on my rollcage), ripped the top off my
snorkel, broke the offside door mirror and mangled one windscreen wiper.
 I wasn't able to get out with a saw because there wasn't any space to open
a door or even climb out of a window.
This (sunken) track was very narrow...
 I am totally convinced that this damage would not have occurred if I had
had the deflectors fitted. I was NOT speeding (chance would have been a fine
thing) much of the time I was jammed in solid and not moving. Reversing was
not an option. The only option was to continue to force my way through -
thereby collecting damage.
 and this was just after the mechanical slasher had been through cutting
overgrowth down.
 Did I mention narrow?

and, yes, they are good for hanging wet washing on as well.
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: [lro] those thingys for posers

>
> >Trevor, you left out the part about them making the person's never been
> >off road poseur rig look tough.
>
> Hey, it gets my rig second and third looks at the Mall.  Works reeel good.
>
> > If you are encountering trees and brush that have the potential for
> >damaging your windshield you are driving where you shouldn't, driving too
> >fast
>
> In the West it is common to come across unmaintained trails with decidous
> banches growing well out into the trail at or just below roof rack
> height.  With the right climate some of those deciduous trees grow
> quickly.
>
> > Most of the growth
> >that is small enough to be dealt with by the limb risers is so short the
> >risers are not going to actually put it up and over the top of the rig.
> >Instead, it drags along the side, the same as it would without the
risers.
>
> That's mostly true.  But my concern is protecting my roof rack and
> keeping it from being hit by something strong enough to slide it
> rearwards.  The roofrack sits just in front of the fibre glass Dormobile
> top and protects it from limb damage.  The last thing I need is for the
> rack to get pushed back and cause the damage.
>
> > I've seen pretty stupid mounting done for these risers too.
>
>
> Me too.  I have 1 inch pipes vertical at the corners of my front bumpers
> that extend through the bumper, the military over riders to about an inch
> higher than the front wings.  THe wires expend between these and the top
> corners of my roof rack and hace spring loaded front mounts to absorb
> branch impact.  The pipes provide branch impact protection for the front
> wing edges.
>
> > Windshield frames are actually pretty strong.  Never damaged mine simply
> >going through slow with corner of the windshield frame serving this duty,
>
> I have not seen an damaged frames but I have been with two LRs so far
> that have ended up with branches breaking the windscreen glass.
>
> >in old chevy trucks, Jeep cherokee and SIII 109.  The key is you can't
> >drive through the stuff at speed.  And sometimes (gasp!) a person may
> >actually have to stop and get out the  saw,
>
> Or maybe even pay attention to what is coming at their windscreen and not
> the obstical they are negotiating.
>
> Actually I have found them very handy for hanging wet laundry while
> camping on the trail.
>
> TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
> Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
> [email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
>                               and more
>
> http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Kids and Rovers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:18:00 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Simon writes: >>>So long as they both roll in under their own power!!
> Simon
>
> but when you roll up at a show/event, you in your Land Rover and your son
in
> his... ain't nothing beats that!<<<

yes, as at Billing this year Neil had to come in mum's (my wife's) Citroen
after his engine did a bang/rattle/bang.
 He drove in with his face obscured by his hands and drove straight behind
the caravan before getting out!
 Didn't help tho as we all stood around (shouting) things like 'Oh, here's
Neil in his mum's NOT-A-Land Rover'
 and 'Did you have a nice trip down in the NOT-A-Land Rover' vehicle you
just arrived in Neil?'

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: Simon J. Harding <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: [lro] Kids and Rovers

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:19:06 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

mine are removable, in seconds...
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: Hope Peter <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers

>
> I would also think that limb raisers would be a real inconvienance when
you
> wanted to do some work under the hood of the vehicle.
> Pete
>
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>

--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] windshield protection not just for trees!
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:20:52 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Simon writes: >>>I've only seen the riser thingys in person (off the web) on
shiny mall mobiles.  Still think they're unnecessary for most.<<<

agreed on the unnecessary for most - but when you need 'em there ain't
nothing else will do...

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

----- Original Message -----
From: Simon J. Harding <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: [lro] windshield protection not just for trees!

Jim, if your post was directed to me, my apologies.  I stand corrected.  I
don't have an overhanging roofrack so hadn't considered that.  Wouldn't ever
have one, unless I was forced, as in if I had a Dormobile. Which I sometimes
wish I did.  Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rolston [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 1:00 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] windshield protection not just for trees!

If you have an overhanging roof rack, they are very good.  Keeps branches
from fetching up under the leading edge of the rack.  Be careful knocking
something you have not used.  Jim, CT

_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 16:33:00 -0400
To: [email-masked]
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] GPS prices
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Matt Peckham <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Kraft Mac 'n' Cheese: Garmin emap (from Walmart)
>Sirloin: Magellan 330X or Garmin eTrex Legend
>Perrier Jouét: Garmin GPS 76
>
>$170, $250, and $350, respectively (latest I checked.)
>
>I have the Mac 'n' cheese, and it's yummy.

BOAT/US advertises the Garmin GPS76 in their recent electronics catalogue
for $219...it's waterproof and even *floats*.  Same price on the Garmin
eTrex Legend, tho'.  (They don't list the wallymart version....)

The specialty issue of this catalogue has about twenty pages devoted to GPS
units and chartplotters, with a dozen on just GPS's...plus a pretty good
'how to select' guide.

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:30:04 -0400
From: Michael Hatton <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] gobbledegook at end of my posts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Using Pine on Irix 6.5, i see an "application/MS-TNEF" attachment of 3.2K
at the end. "strings" in it seem to include the message.

What is MS-TNEF? Is it some sort of proprietary email format - MS
reinventing the wheel?

MS-wheel(tm) - for a small annual fee, you can have them on your Land
Rover too!

Michael Hatton

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Simon J. Harding wrote:

> ok, but there is no string of many many lines of letters and symbols?
>
> Thanks.
>
> From:	Tate Crumbley [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:	Friday, August 03, 2001 8:51 AM
> To:	[email-masked]
> Subject:	Re: [lro] gobbledegook at end of my posts
>
>
> Simon,
>     In Win2000 Eudora, your emails all come with an attachment of unknown
> type with the name the same as the subject of the email.
>
> Thanks,
> Tate
>
> At 08:22 AM 8/3/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >Bob Bernard sent me a post telling me there is a bunch of alphabet soup at
> >the end of my posts he is reading in digest mode.  Is this appearing on
> >anyones real time messages I post?  I'm trying to confirm that I have a
> >configure problem and that this is not solely a digest thing.
> >
> >Simon
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >LRO mailing list
> >[email-masked]
> >http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Mike Rogers" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Howling 109 SIII
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:38:23 +0100
Reply-To: [email-masked]

But have you driven it up the road with the rear prop removed as I
suggested?

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
LPG V8 110 project (thanks to Marijn)
(if you can't get there in a Land Rover you can't get there)

Dear list,

Some days ago I posted the following mail to the uk-lro list. I got some
really nice responses but now I feel ideas are running out. I hope someone
in this list might be able to help me. In addition to what is written below
(suggestions from Alasdair Worsley) I have also tested to put High-Low
stick in neutral and run the gearbox in 4th gear. This generates no sounds.
I also tested to take away the rear prop shaft and run the gearbox in 4th
gear with some resistance applied to it from the handbrake, again no sound.
Could someone please enlighten me about this mystery?

Sorry for the crosspost,

Peter

>Ever since I bought my 109 (1975 2.25 diesel) back in early 1998 it has
>made a howling/whining sound that I always thought came from the gearbox
>or the transfer case. I have made numerous attempts to find out the cause
>including pulling the gearbox three times changing all bearings, bushings
>and checking gears etc. I can say that the gearboxes are as new and I am
>pretty convinced they must be ok. The car also has a high ratio transfer
>case (Ashcrofts) so I have been in contact with Ian and David and they
>told me that it had happened that when drilling the transfer case body in
>order to move the intermediate shaft it has happened that the box starts
>to whine due to slight misalignment of the new hole. They sent me a new
>case and I have moved all parts over but still I get the same sound. The
>car behaves like this:
>
>The howling is most likely there all the time but it get evident at higher
>speed and especially when changing gear to 4th. The sound is increasing in
>strength with speed of car and starts to get really high at approximately
>70 km/h and at 90 km/h (when I manage to get there...) it is really loud
>and your ears get really tired after some time (swmbo uses earprotection).
>Sound is completely gone when pressing the clutch and immediately comes
>back when releasing it. When breaking using the engine  it goes away for a
>second or two and then comes back.
>
>I really need some input on this one. Nothing that I have been doing has
>changed the sound in any way. Oils are new and levels are ok. I have tried
>synthetic oil, STP additive but with no success. Also the rear diff has
>Red line synthetic oil but made no difference. I cant believe this amount
>of sound would be considered normal and I am running out of ideas. Could
>someone pleas help?
>
>Peter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
Dr. Peter Thorén
PhD, Senior Research Scientist
Head of R&D section
National Veterinary Institute (SVA)
Dept. of Virology, Research and Development
P.O. Box 585; SE-751 23 Uppsala
Sweden
Phone: +46 18 67 43 73
Fax: +46 18 471 45 20
[email-masked]
http://w3.sva.se
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:59:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] gobbledegook at end of my posts
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Michael Hatton wrote:

:
:Using Pine on Irix 6.5, i see an "application/MS-TNEF" attachment of 3.2K
:at the end. "strings" in it seem to include the message.
:
:What is MS-TNEF? Is it some sort of proprietary email format - MS
:reinventing the wheel?
:

It's what Microsoft use to encapsilate the RTF portion of message.  It's got
no bussiness being sent ot people who don't use an MS mailreader.  Please
turn it off.

-- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:01:15 -0400
From: Stephen West-Fisher <[email-masked]>
Organization: Coastal Data Systems
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] RE: Manifold pressure gauge
Reply-To: [email-masked]

"Faure, Marin" wrote:
  Then you could get rid of the 2.25 engine and use the engine bay for
storage, or for lots of
> batteries to start the R-3350.

Nah, install an air compressor and start it with air.

A lot of the turbos in the '60s were manual wastegate. Could be fun on
the takeoff. Throttle, prop, mixture, and turbo. Living in the east made
it much easier, full throttle, prop, and mixture with the turbo full
off. I imagine out west it would be more fun when you needed to lean and
adjust the turbo at the same time.

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Odd mess in air filter
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:24:10 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Perrone,
    Sorry, I missed your post suggesting a leak down test.  I will get on
that ASAP.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:49:17 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [lro] Re: Unleaded fuel
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> 
> I would put the Rover 2.25 engine more in the class with the engines
> in the classic cars I referred to.  I certainly wouldn't consider it a
> high-output, high revving, performance engine.  As such, the lead
> vs unleaded issue is probably irrelevant to it.
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure

If Land Rover 2.25 valve seats have been lapped or recut
unleaded gas will result in seat errosion in a few thousand miles
however if the engine ran on leaded gas for a good number of miles
before switching the lead embedded in the seats will offer protection
for many thousands of miles if the engine is treated kindly.
With harsh use the seats don't last long.
John and Muddy

--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Simon J. Harding" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:08:23 -0700
Reply-To: [email-masked]

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

And isn't the Garmin available in a color strikingly similar to the =
Da-Glo (TM) color of Kraft (TM)  Mac and Cheese (fuud product)?

-----Original Message-----
From:	Matt Peckham [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, August 03, 2001 10:49 AM
To:	[email-masked]
Subject:	RE: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test

Kraft Mac 'n' Cheese: Garmin emap (from Walmart)
Sirloin: Magellan 330X or Garmin eTrex Legend
Perrier Jou=E9t: Garmin GPS 76

$170, $250, and $350, respectively (latest I checked.)

I have the Mac 'n' cheese, and it's yummy.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon J. Harding [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:18 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test

I have a little extra coin and was thinking (pending spousal approval) =
of
blowing some of it on a GPS unit.  I'd appreciate suggestions for a
straightforward reliable unit as a starter.  I recall mention of the =
bottom
of the line magellan as being too bottom of the line but beyond that I =
have
not paid much attention.... I'm leaving for SE Oregon for about 5 - 6 =
days
soon and would like to have one to play with and learn about on that =
trip.
I don't really have an idea of what the bells and whistles available in =
a
GPS unit are, but prefer simpler to lots of fancy options.

Also, I'd like someone in real time to let me know if this post comes =
with a
long string of gunk at the end, or if its clean.  Bob Bernard is in =
Digest
mode and will be doing the same from there.  I tried unsubbing and =
resubbing
in the faint hope of fixing it.  Its not happening with my mail offlist. =
 If
there is junk at the end of my posts, I'll keep working on fixing it and
won't post until I believe its fixed.

Simon

_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
[email-masked]
http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro

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--__--__--

Message: 14
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: "'Michael Hatton '" <[email-masked]>,
   "[email-masked]' '"
	 <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] gobbledegook at end of my posts
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 20:18:10 -0400 
Reply-To: [email-masked]

What is MS-TNEF? Is it some sort of proprietary email format - MS
reinventing the wheel?

Obviously an acronym for That Nasty Explorer F?*&^%r  !!!!
Either Microsloth or Ford

--__--__--

Message: 15
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 01 19:06:47 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> I was NOT speeding (chance would have been a fine
>thing) much of the time I was jammed in solid and not moving. Reversing was
>not an option. The only option was to continue to force my way through -
>thereby collecting damage.
> and this was just after the mechanical slasher had been through cutting
>overgrowth down.
> Did I mention narrow?

Frank it sounds like you were the first through that green lane since the 
Saxon invaders were routing the last of the British Roman defenders.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

--__--__--

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 20:31:00 -0600
To: [email-masked]
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: [lro] New Land Rover reliability rating
Reply-To: [email-masked]

The BBC web site is reporting the results of a consumer survey in Britain 
that found an average of 7% of new cars broke down at least once in the 
first two years.  The Land Rover Discovery has the worst rating at 19% or 
about one in every five Discos.

My Series has now gone (knock on a huge pile of wood) 6 years with only one 
breakdown.  Failed Coil.

				Rick Grant

Rick Grant Communications
International Media and Crisis Management
Calgary - Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

--__--__--

Message: 17
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:24:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [lro] Milk coming out of my nose.
From: [email-masked]
Reply-To: [email-masked]

My brother just sent me this link. Some technologies just have to be
shared, and as how it involves beer, a shed and tools the parallels to
this crowd were just to good to not mention it.  
http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

Chris

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:31:29 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>Procedure was to set crank so that #1 was at TDC
> then rotate cam so that #4 valves were on the cusp.  There is actually a
> little detent there that will hold the cam im place while you figure out
> which keyway to use.

This is the same as doing it on #1. #1 and 4 are 180 degrees out of phase is
all.  In my example #1 is at tdc of it's exhaust stroke.  In this example
it's at TDC  of it's firing stroke.
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 19
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:53:17 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

	Why would you set cam timing on the exhaust stroke?  I've never heard of
that.  When you read the timing marks on the dampener, you are expecting the
#1 cylinder to be getting spark.  if you set cam timing at exhaust, the
engine will be 180 degrees out of phase, and you will have to be reading the
"back side" of the timing marks.  If this is the way your motor is set up,
I'm not surprised your having a problem!

-Perrone.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Hope Peter
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:31 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
>
>
>
> >Procedure was to set crank so that #1 was at TDC
> > then rotate cam so that #4 valves were on the cusp.  There is actually a
> > little detent there that will hold the cam im place while you figure out
> > which keyway to use.
>
> This is the same as doing it on #1. #1 and 4 are 180 degrees out
> of phase is
> all.  In my example #1 is at tdc of it's exhaust stroke.  In this example
> it's at TDC  of it's firing stroke.
> Pete

--__--__--

Message: 20
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:07:54 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

TAW,
    Frank may have been the first through since Roman times, but I sure wish
it was me out doing those lanes rather than reading about someone else!
    I don't have limb risers but for most of the type of trails I like (old
and unused) they would be most indispensable.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 21
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 22:16:07 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Perrone,
    I cannot judge if you are being silly or actually misinterpreting
Peter's statement.  Unless I am mistaken they are exactly the same thing,
are they not?  You are just looking at different ends of the same motor.  Am
I missing something or is MY timing off?  ; )

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 22
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:37:47 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

> Why would you set cam timing on the exhaust stroke?  I've never heard of
> that.  When you read the timing marks on the dampener, you are expecting
the
> #1 cylinder to be getting spark.  if you set cam timing at exhaust, the
> engine will be 180 degrees out of phase, and you will have to be reading
the
> "back side" of the timing marks.  If this is the way your motor is set up,
> I'm not surprised your having a problem!

I installed the cam as per the manufacturers instructions.  #1 at tdc on the
exhaust stroke.  You then rotate the crank one more time and install the
dizzy.
The timing marks on the series engine are on the crank..either the front
pulley or on the flywheel.  The cam timing gear has twice as many teeth as
the crank gear.  So the crank turns twice for every revolution of the cam.
If you could figure a way to fire your timing light when ever the #1 was at
tdc, then it would fire on the fire and exhaust stroke.  If the dizzy did
end up 180 out, then it would be a simple matter to swap the wires around.
And again if I rotate my engine once, then check the valves on #4 they are
right on the money
Pete

--__--__--

Message: 23
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 18:44:15 -1000
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Simon, I picked up the EMap and am very happy wwith it.  The software from
Garmin is pretty good, don't have their topo maps.  I am using Delorme topo
maps and its working great.

Went up to play in the Kahukus last weekend and the image on the Delorme map
was right on the money for what I was seeing on the ground.
For road driving the maps in the emap are very good.
With the Garmin software you can upload map details from the laptop.  I am
thinking of getting the Garmin topomaps so I can load the topos directly.
The emap also gives your coordinates using the military grid reference
system and this is great when using my paper maps on base.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Peckham" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 07:49
Subject: RE: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test

Kraft Mac 'n' Cheese: Garmin emap (from Walmart)
Sirloin: Magellan 330X or Garmin eTrex Legend
Perrier Jouét: Garmin GPS 76

$170, $250, and $350, respectively (latest I checked.)

I have the Mac 'n' cheese, and it's yummy.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Simon J. Harding [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:18 PM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: [lro] GPS unit suggestions and test

I have a little extra coin and was thinking (pending spousal approval) of
blowing some of it on a GPS unit.  I'd appreciate suggestions for a
straightforward reliable unit as a starter.  I recall mention of the bottom
of the line magellan as being too bottom of the line but beyond that I have
not paid much attention.... I'm leaving for SE Oregon for about 5 - 6 days
soon and would like to have one to play with and learn about on that trip.
I don't really have an idea of what the bells and whistles available in a
GPS unit are, but prefer simpler to lots of fancy options.

Also, I'd like someone in real time to let me know if this post comes with a
long string of gunk at the end, or if its clean.  Bob Bernard is in Digest
mode and will be doing the same from there.  I tried unsubbing and resubbing
in the faint hope of fixing it.  Its not happening with my mail offlist.  If
there is junk at the end of my posts, I'll keep working on fixing it and
won't post until I believe its fixed.

Simon

_______________________________________________
LRO mailing list
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--__--__--

Message: 24
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:51:52 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

I honestly wasn't trying to be silly...  here is what I am saying.

Peter said:

"The instructions that came with the ACR cam and head had the following
steps
for lining up the cam and crank.
25. roate crank to set #1 to TDC
26. rotate crank until #1 and #2 valves are at overlap.  This means #1 is
closing and #2 is opening."

Ok, so this should bring the crank up to TDC.  and the timing mark should be
zeroed on the block.  Now since I don't have direct experience of what #1 or
#2 are (why the hell they don't just say int. or exh. I don't know) I am
assuming that #1 is intake and #2 is exhaust.  Then the instruction says to
rotate the crank until you are at overlap.  This means turning the crank so
the piston in #1 cylinder through what would be the power stroke, the
exhaust stroke, and to a point where the exhaust stroke is finishing and the
intake stroke is beginning.  In this area, both valves are open
(overlapping).  If THIS point is used as TDC for ignition purposes, you'd be
firing the motor at the beginning of the intake stroke, not the end of the
compression stroke. That is still some 300+ degrees away.  Am I missing
something here or do 4 cylinder engines work fundamentally different than 8
cylinder engines?

-Perrone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Kirk Hillman
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:16 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
>
>
>
> Perrone,
>     I cannot judge if you are being silly or actually misinterpreting
> Peter's statement.  Unless I am mistaken they are exactly the same thing,
> are they not?  You are just looking at different ends of the same
> motor.  Am
> I missing something or is MY timing off?  ; )
>
> Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 25
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:05:09 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Ok, now I get it...

Somehow I missed the part about set at TDC on exhaust/intake stroke AND THEN
rotate 360 degrees. and install dizzy.  That's how it is supposed to work!
:)

	Ok, not back to your problem!  IF you can't get an idle unless you ignite
the mixture 18-20 degrees advanced, you have a spark problem!  Basically it
sounds as if you are having to spark the mixture WAY early to get full
combustion.  This could come from a few things, but the most likely is
incorrect spark gap or insufficient power from the coil.  Narrow up your
spark gap to .030 and see if you can get idle at 10 degrees.  If not, then
get one of those little spark testers that you can gap, set it at .035 and
run it to .020 in .005 steps to see if you are getting solid spark.  If you
have to back down to .025 or smaller to get strong spark, have a look at the
coil.  Different heads affect how the spark travels across the piston
greatly, and you may be finding that the new heads are causing a flame front
problem.  This is not uncommon in performance engines and its why you see
performance guys reshaping, radiusing and cleaning up combustion chambers on
heads.

	If this doesn't fix the problem take a look at your fuel.  What octane are
you using?  Lower octane fuels burn easier so they may improve performance
in your situation.  Also, you may be running too rich.  Running really rich
tends to cause the spark to have to burn too much gas, this slowing down the
flame in the cylinder.  How do your plugs look?  How does the exhaust smell?
Are you noting the smell of unburned fuel at the tailpipe?  Are you sure you
are taking in as much air as that new head needs?  Choking it of air may
force rich running.

-P

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Hope Peter
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:38 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
>
>
>
> > Why would you set cam timing on the exhaust stroke?  I've never heard of
> > that.  When you read the timing marks on the dampener, you are expecting
> the
> > #1 cylinder to be getting spark.  if you set cam timing at exhaust, the
> > engine will be 180 degrees out of phase, and you will have to be reading
> the
> > "back side" of the timing marks.  If this is the way your motor
> is set up,
> > I'm not surprised your having a problem!
>
> I installed the cam as per the manufacturers instructions.  #1 at
> tdc on the
> exhaust stroke.  You then rotate the crank one more time and install the
> dizzy.
> The timing marks on the series engine are on the crank..either the front
> pulley or on the flywheel.  The cam timing gear has twice as many teeth as
> the crank gear.  So the crank turns twice for every revolution of the cam.
> If you could figure a way to fire your timing light when ever the
> #1 was at
> tdc, then it would fire on the fire and exhaust stroke.  If the dizzy did
> end up 180 out, then it would be a simple matter to swap the wires around.
> And again if I rotate my engine once, then check the valves on #4 they are
> right on the money
> Pete
>
> _______________________________________________
> LRO mailing list
> [email-masked]
> http://land-rover.team.net/mailman/listinfo/lro
>
>

--__--__--

Message: 26
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:14:10 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Perrone,
    You win the small plastic trophy.  I am totally confused.  This is
another one of those situations like differential rotation that one is sure
you have figured out.  The more you think the less sure you are.  The only
way to be absolutely sure is go look under the hood.  I just might do that
tomorrow morning.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 27
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:24:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Reply-To: [email-masked]

On Sat, 4 Aug 2001, Perrone Ford wrote:

:
:I honestly wasn't trying to be silly...  here is what I am saying.
:
:Peter said:
:
:"The instructions that came with the ACR cam and head had the following
:steps
:for lining up the cam and crank.
:25. roate crank to set #1 to TDC
:26. rotate crank until #1 and #2 valves are at overlap.  This means #1 is
:closing and #2 is opening."
:
:Ok, so this should bring the crank up to TDC.  and the timing mark should be
:zeroed on the block.  Now since I don't have direct experience of what #1 or
:#2 are (why the hell they don't just say int. or exh. I don't know) I am

Because it's a hell of a lot easier to just look at the valves -- the one in
front is #1, the second one #2 -- then try and remember which is intake and
which exhaust, especially if you've the manifolds off?

:assuming that #1 is intake and #2 is exhaust.  Then the instruction says to

And you're wrong, #1 is exhaust, 2 and 3 intake, 4 and 5 exhaust, 6 and 7
intake, 8 exhaust.

-- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

--__--__--

Message: 28
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:16:47 -0600
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Now we are on the right track!!!  Good diagnosis by the way, Perrone.

Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 29
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:32:00 -0400
Reply-To: [email-masked]

Thanks,

	Once I understood what Peter was saying, it made sense immediately.  Then I
could go on and help find the real problem!  All this engine design study I
have been doing is paying dividends.  As is the time I've been spending
trying to get that piece of crap Camaro running again!

-P

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On Behalf
> Of Kirk Hillman
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:17 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [lro] Timing question (My running problem -update)
>
>
>
> Now we are on the right track!!!  Good diagnosis by the way, Perrone.
>
> Kirk

--__--__--

Message: 30
Subject: Re: [lro] those thingys for posers
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 01 23:33:24 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]

>
>TAW,
>    Frank may have been the first through since Roman times, but I sure wish
>it was me out doing those lanes rather than reading about someone else!
>    I don't have limb risers but for most of the type of trails I like (old
>and unused) they would be most indispensable.
>
>Kirk

Me too.  I went greenlaning near Kent once on what felt like it should 
have been old Roman roads.  Some places had real tall dense brush closing 
in on both sides.  It was a real scrape to get the '74 Rangie through 
(The only time I've been in a Range Rover).

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

--__--__--

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