Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #432

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:31:43 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *  Monday, July 2 2001  Volume 01 : Number 432

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:27:49 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

Dualmatic too.  Speaking of Dualmatic, anybody know what the going price is for a functioning set?  I have a pair on my spare front axle if anyones interested.

Adam

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:50:26 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Robert=20Ries?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: [none]

>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 20:13:11 +0100
>From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: LRO: How Much Oil For An Oil Change ?

>we used to be able to buy beer in quarts, in my (misspent) 
>youth. Never see
>'em today tho.
>Best Cheers

>Frank

Sure you can get it in quarts Frank...  "Two pints Speckled Hen,
guv!"  ;>)

=====
Robert D. Ries
SSgt, USAF
Burwell, England
"With friends like these..."

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:55:13 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

- --=====================_2846233==_.ALT
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30.  prior to that dana 25 or 27.

Joe

At 05:04 PM 6/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>after a certain point in their manufacture they came with front and rear dana
>44s, beofre that the front was a dana 30 or 35, cant remember.  Joe?
>
>adam

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

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<html>
30.&nbsp; prior to that dana 25 or 27.<br><br>
Joe<br><br>
At 05:04 PM 6/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>after a certain point in their
manufacture they came with front and rear dana <br>
44s, beofre that the front was a dana 30 or 35, cant remember.&nbsp;
Joe?<br><br>
adam</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
<a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font>
<br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_2846233==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:53:29 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

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Scout used dana 44 on the rear of 65+ vehicles and in the front of 74+ scouts

tell me more about this scout, where'd you see it, body style, color, 
etc.  I might be able to tell you who drives it and whats inder the frame

Joe

At 01:32 PM 6/29/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 29 June 2001, "Hope Peter" wrote:
>
> >Using Scout axles would be pretty good >idea if you dont mind making the
> >vehicle wider.
> >Pete
>
>Does anyone know if the Scout axles ever included Dana 44's?  I followed a 
>very nicely prepped late model IH Scout (77-78?) into work today, and I 
>thought the diff looked Dana-ish.  The truck had revolver shackles and was 
>easily running on 35's or taller.  The scouts are very popular where I 
>live, and you hardly ever see a stock one.  They are relatively cheap used 
>so if you boff the truck off road, you can buy a couple of spares trucks 
>for what we put into say ...........a Land Rover transmission.
>
>Bryan
>62 88
>70 109 "Genie"
>
>
>
>________________________________________________
>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
>http://www.peoplepc.com

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

- --=====================_2846212==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Scout used dana 44 on the rear of 65+ vehicles and in the front of 74+
scouts<br><br>
tell me more about this scout, where'd you see it, body style, color,
etc.&nbsp; I might be able to tell you who drives it and whats inder the
frame<br><br>
Joe<br><br>
<br>
At 01:32 PM 6/29/2001 -0700, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>On Fri, 29 June 2001, &quot;Hope
Peter&quot; wrote:<br><br>
&gt;Using Scout axles would be pretty good &gt;idea if you dont mind
making the<br>
&gt;vehicle wider.<br>
&gt;Pete<br><br>
Does anyone know if the Scout axles ever included Dana 44's?&nbsp; I
followed a very nicely prepped late model IH Scout (77-78?) into work
today, and I thought the diff looked Dana-ish.&nbsp; The truck had
revolver shackles and was easily running on 35's or taller.&nbsp; The
scouts are very popular where I live, and you hardly ever see a stock
one.&nbsp; They are relatively cheap used so if you boff the truck off
road, you can buy a couple of spares trucks for what we put into say
...........a Land Rover transmission.<br><br>
Bryan<br>
62 88<br>
70 109 &quot;Genie&quot;<br><br>
<br><br>
________________________________________________<br>
PeoplePC:&nbsp; It's for people. And it's just smart. <br>
<a href="http://www.peoplepc.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.peoplepc.com</a>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; <a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font> <br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_2846212==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:42:16 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Somehow I remember someone saying galvanized frames and bulkheads were an 
option for South African assembled trucks until sometime in BMW's or 
possibly after Ford's take over.  Apparently they had a lot of problems with 
corrosion in tropical and salt environments and offered it to give them a 
leg up on the Japanese trucks which were guaranteed to rust.  Supposedly the 
option has been cancelled, unfortunately.

Aloha
Peter O

>From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments 
>bewarned
>Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:55:41 +0200
>
>Frank Elson wrote:
> > No Series that I know had a galvanised
> > chassis either... :-)>
>
><koff>
>
>Loads of later model S3 and 3s' were built with galv chassis, early
>110's also (in fact right up till '94 I think).
>
>Regards
>
>Paul Oxley
>AfricanAdrenalin.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 00:37:00 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: Re: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #431

In a message dated 7/1/2001 7:10:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 01 10:55:53 -0700
>  From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
>  Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments 
bewarned
>  
>  Until then, the primary list traffic was concerned with series 
>  maintenance and upgrades, club events and off road trips.  

Oh yea, if anyone remembers what the big topic of discussion was at that 
time....anyone....Bueller.

The majority of the posts at that time dealt with the proper location of a 
beer bottle opener on a Series truck.

There was a bit more to the hostility than TA lets on to. I seem to remember 
several comments along the line of, since their not series trucks, their not 
Land Rovers. And from there it went a step further with personal attacks on 
coilers just because someone did not return a wave to a Series owner.

Come on folks, I thought we had left all this way in the past. My only guess 
as to why this subject surfaces now and then must be the fact that everyone's 
truck is up and running with no problems. Therefore, nobody is asking or 
offering tech support so they just throw their two cents in on a well beaten 
horse. Geez.

Andy Baran
Chesapeake, VA

95 Discovery
71 SIIA (Still in a gizillion pieces)

  There are few problems which cannot be solved with the proper application 
of a suitable amount of high explosives.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:06:05 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

>Just don't start bragging about your 5 disk cd changer

Uhhh... FINSUP has a 10-disc changer. ;-)

jeff, leaf-sprung and proud.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 02:40:14 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Leaf vs coil attitude, you guys have it made

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A couple of years ago, I was working in Louisville, KY and passed a local 
Land Rover dealership. On the forecourt was a Series III for sale, parked 
amongst the Rangies and Discos. Nice new paint job, in red and cream but with 
all the galvy stuff painted black. I was amused to read an ad in the local 
newspaper for the very same vehicle which was advertised as a 1973 Land Rover 
Defender.

Cheers

Ian Kelly

1970 Series IIA 88"
Los Angeles

'Slow but relentless'

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>A couple of years ago, I was working in Louisville, KY and passed a local 
<BR>Land Rover dealership. On the forecourt was a Series III for sale, parked 
<BR>amongst the Rangies and Discos. Nice new paint job, in red and cream but with 
<BR>all the galvy stuff painted black. I was amused to read an ad in the local 
<BR>newspaper for the very same vehicle which was advertised as a 1973 Land Rover 
<BR>Defender.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Ian Kelly
<BR>
<BR>1970 Series IIA 88"
<BR>Los Angeles
<BR>
<BR>'Slow but relentless'</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_28.1783ecff.2871714e_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:02:29 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

How low can I go in a LR axle?

Joe

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>But I suspect that it is an observation based mostly upon the difference
>between 3.5 & 4.7 ring & pinions.  With coiler gearing idling is way fast.

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts. 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:26:58 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

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Let me re-phrase that.

Do land rovers use the hubs designed and patented by Warn, or a diffrent type?

Joe

At 11:59 PM 6/30/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>There are Warn, Selectro, Fairey and one or two brands I can't think of.
>The Warn design is very similar to the Warns on scouts.

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

- --=====================_2187704==_.ALT
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<html>
Let me re-phrase that.<br><br>
Do land rovers use the hubs designed and patented by Warn, or a diffrent
type?<br><br>
Joe<br><br>
At 11:59 PM 6/30/2001 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>There are Warn, Selectro, Fairey
and one or two brands I can't think of.<br>
The Warn design is very similar to the Warns on scouts.<br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
<a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font>
<br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_2187704==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:31:11 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Peter Ogilvie wrote:
 
> Somehow I remember someone saying galvanized frames and bulkheads were an
> option for South African assembled trucks until sometime in BMW's or
> possibly after Ford's take over.

Pre-BM actually. The galv chassis were mostly a pre-LRSA (Land-Rover
South Africa) feature AFAIK. Before LRSA's official entrance into the SA
market the vehicles were built and assembled under license by AAD
(Associated Automotive Distributers), who picked up the hot-dipping
thingy from the clients. I think that LRSA (who entered the market and
then competed with AAD for a few years) also built some Defenders on
galv chassis - and then killed it off as too costly.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:19:09 +0100
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

Yes, but we drive Series IV motors don't we??
(pre-defender 110s and 90s????)
Brgds
PhilN
- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank Elson <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: 01 July 2001 23:16
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

>you can't insult my motor Alan, it isn't there, it doesn't exist - this
list
>is for Ser motors only... :-)>
>Best Cheers
>
>Frank
>    +--+--+--+
>     I !__|  [_]|_\___
>     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
>     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <[email-masked]>
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:18 PM
>Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic
>
>
>>
>> Frank, go have a look at:
>>
>> http://www.pontiac.com/aztek/
>>
>> THis is quite possibley the ugliest car on the planet, barring a certain
>> rusty 110 I know.....8*)
>>
>>                aj"Just joking.....8*)"r
>>
>>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 06:30:09 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Bottle opener on Series trucks:

As a result of large amounts of experimentation while on Canadian soil I
have conclusively proven that the Series and Range Rover vehicles were
designed by the same folk - the Range Rover has a built-in bottle openr
also.

It's actually a better design than the Series bottle opener, as it's
outside the vehicle at the rear, rather than inside where spilled beer can
attract the ire of the local traffic squad.

If you, beer in hand, move to the rear of the Range Rover you'll find the
rear bumper. Where the bumper is bolted to the chassis the inside edge of
the bumper is spaced approximately 1/2" downward from the frame rail - a
perfect distance. Insert the edge of the bottle cap into that space and
pivot the bottle downward - the cap will come off with nary a fuss.

          aj"Enough is enough with the poserurs - just ignore them!"r

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:17:04 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

Free Wheeling Hubs..... 
Oh no!! That'll start more arguments now! ;-)

On 30 Jun 2001, at 0:22, Joseph S Dufresne wrote:

If I had the money to spare.

whats FWH?

Steve

1972 SIII LtWt Green
1993 D90 Red
- -------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: [email-masked]
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate)
Fax: 0845 458 4559
Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:25:47 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Heat "gauge"problems 2.25l Petrol

Yes... but not on a 2.25 petrol. I suffered with this problem on the Defender 
90 (tdi diesel). I changed the thermostat three times and still kept on going 
almost to the red. I then got a local garage to put a temperature probe down 
the dip stick tube to measure the engine oil and it came out bang on 90 
dgrees which is the correct temperature. It seems that my guage is faulty (I 
tried swapping the sender but still wrong). So now I have an extra resister in 
the sender wire so as to 'fudge' the temperature to about mid way when at 
normal running temp. Been that way since last autumn with no problems. 
One day I'll swap the guage but, heck it works this way so what's the rush?

On 1 Jul 2001, at 21:48, Lance da Silva wrote:

> My S111 ran very hot on the gauge, so I removed the thermostat & ordered a new
> one. Whilst waiting for the new unit to arrive, I ran temporarily without a
> thermostat. Now the gauge hardly comes up at all. New unit arrives, and straight
> up to just short of the red goes the needle. Anyone encountered anything
> similar?
> 
> 

Steve

1972 SIII LtWt Green
1993 D90 Red
- -------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: [email-masked]
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate)
Fax: 0845 458 4559
Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:34:18 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Bottle opener on Series trucks:

Kindly explain just why, when on Canadian soil you found it necessary to
use said bottle opener when Canadian beer has screw tops!!!! Hrmph.
John and Muddy

Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote:
> 
> As a result of large amounts of experimentation while on Canadian soil I
> have conclusively proven that the Series and Range Rover vehicles were
> designed by the same folk - the Range Rover has a built-in bottle openr
> also.
> 
> It's actually a better design than the Series bottle opener, as it's
> outside the vehicle at the rear, rather than inside where spilled beer can
> attract the ire of the local traffic squad.
> 
> If you, beer in hand, move to the rear of the Range Rover you'll find the
> rear bumper. Where the bumper is bolted to the chassis the inside edge of
> the bumper is spaced approximately 1/2" downward from the frame rail - a
> perfect distance. Insert the edge of the bottle cap into that space and
> pivot the bottle downward - the cap will come off with nary a fuss.
> 
>           aj"Enough is enough with the poserurs - just ignore them!"r

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:36:36 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
Subject: Re: LRO: Heat "gauge"problems 2.25l Petrol

Sounds like the instrument voltage stabilzer has gone t*tsup. 
John and Muddy 

Steve Mace wrote:
> 
> Yes... but not on a 2.25 petrol. I suffered with this problem on the Defender
> 90 (tdi diesel). I changed the thermostat three times and still kept on going
> almost to the red. I then got a local garage to put a temperature probe down
> the dip stick tube to measure the engine oil and it came out bang on 90
> dgrees which is the correct temperature. It seems that my guage is faulty (I
> tried swapping the sender but still wrong). So now I have an extra resister in
> the sender wire so as to 'fudge' the temperature to about mid way when at
> normal running temp. Been that way since last autumn with no problems.
> One day I'll swap the guage but, heck it works this way so what's the rush?
> 
> On 1 Jul 2001, at 21:48, Lance da Silva wrote:
> 
> > My S111 ran very hot on the gauge, so I removed the thermostat & ordered a new
> > one. Whilst waiting for the new unit to arrive, I ran temporarily without a
> > thermostat. Now the gauge hardly comes up at all. New unit arrives, and straight
> > up to just short of the red goes the needle. Anyone encountered anything
> > similar?
> >
> >
> 
> Steve
> 
> 1972 SIII LtWt Green
> 1993 D90 Red
> -------------------------------------
> Name: Dr Steve Mace
> E-mail: [email-masked]
> www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
> Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate)
> Fax: 0845 458 4559
> Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877
> -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:55:22 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Bottle opener on Series trucks:

Kindly explain just why, when on Canadian soil you found it necessary to
use said bottle opener when Canadian beer has screw tops!!!! Hrmph.
John and Muddy

Because one must do this research when and where one can....eschewing the
frippery of twist-off caps for the reliable solid 'thunk' of a bottle cap
being pried off in the manner intended.

I don't normally drink beer at home - like our British correspondent Frank
Elson I am a Jaimeson's drinker.

               ajr

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:21:24 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Heat "gauge"problems 2.25l Petrol

There is no voltage stabiliser in the Defender; or, let me clarify, there isn't a 
single voltatge regulator serving all the dash instruments. Each instrument 
does it its self. In the case of the temp guage this might mean a complete 
new guage (or second hand anyway). The other option (not tried) is to reset 
the needle on the guage so it starts lower down. Still, as I say it works at the 
moment so, in best LR tradition, I'm going to leave it alone ;-)

On 2 Jul 2001, at 8:36, John Cranfield wrote:

> Sounds like the instrument voltage stabilzer has gone t*tsup. 

Steve

1972 SIII LtWt Green
1993 D90 Red
- -------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: [email-masked]
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate)
Fax: 0845 458 4559
Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:23:56 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Wow.  Where I live coilers and leafers wheel together all the time.  My local group, Southern Land Rover Society (SOLAROS) hosts a monthly trail ride where Series rigs and brand new Disco's play together nicely.  I've never thought about, or heard about, some rivalry between coilers and leafers.  Sounds pretty silly to me...

Ron Ward

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 03:41PM >>>
>
>    While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the list,
it pains me that your statements ring true.  I know many leafers don't care
about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes.  It seeps into
the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
planning events between the two groups.  Those of us who own coil-sprung
rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks and
learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.

Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that fall
into this description.
A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and chat
with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get togethers.
Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them.  I am not
talking about the station wagon soccer moms either.  If it's a stock
looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more.  I am
talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, racks
etc.    Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
pineapple fields or to Keana Pt.  Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield.  Tell them about the knee
deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time I
had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face like
we are talking about going to mars.  These people have the pushbars so they
dont scratch their fenders in parking lots.  They thought that those three
white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ on
their vehicle.  Don't really use the lights, because that would mean getting
ut of the vehicle to remove the covers.  The roof rack is to put the beach
chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle.  The tires, well it's a
truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck.  The three Defender guys I
have met on Island bought the "image".  They have money and want everyone to
know.  Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3.  You know, the people who
think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle used
by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII.  Had one guy go into this
long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land Rover
for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
never sold to the general public.  Other oil companies, logging companies,
mines, etc were the only one that got them.

I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I know
that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but it
does describe the majority of coil owners.  It has been mentioned on this
list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a market for
a true utility type 4x4.  I hope they do, but you know what, I think the
market is very, very, very small.  Ford bought a Name.  If the Defender line
continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody design
vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all the
electric gadgets you can imagine.  Some people believe that this elctrickery
makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list about
this.  People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many vehicles
towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car that
had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out.  If you are looking
for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then buy a
brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years.  But dont try and tell me
that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would have
been when it was 10 years old.  And if you believe that a coiler is more
reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison.  I will wager a months
pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all the
money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle then
the person that buys a Disco II.

I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad.  I would love to get a
1975 2 door rangie.  Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for webers,
but I would be happy with the rest of the package.  For my next project I
want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top.  Diesel engine and auto tranny.
Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance.  I can't
wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and see
how they have built their rigs.  From the photos I have seen and the people
I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an apprentice
for a while.  To me the Rover is a big lego set.  I like the looks.  I like
working on them.  I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks.  I love that
I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
still laugh at that one.  I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
gearing.  Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" the
88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me.  I do cringe at
times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there are
people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle.  But
I am happy with it.  The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable is
to change the shape of the rear wheel wells.  If I ever got rid of the
thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a stock
series again.  Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 33's
and a v-8 in a Series rig?  he was run off pretty quick.  Think some are
trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out discussing
my plans I would have been run off also.  BTW I found this list sometime in
mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move to
Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here.  Other then asking questions,
I stayed pretty quiete for another year.  I saw alot of how the
non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
Well that is enough for now I am sure,
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:30:49 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: 95 rangie and on...

That's a good question.  I think the coil conversion is available/possible on a new body Range Rover, but consider this...  The new body style Range Rover is a 2nd or 3rd generation EAS system that is very sophisticated and, I'm told, trouble free.  In fully extended height, the new Rangie has more body clearance than a D90.  But the smaller, less aggressive tires will limit the under axle clearance.

I recently went on a weekend off-road event and the truck behind me was a Callaway Range Rover 4.6 with 17" rims and Pirelli Scorpions.  We were on level 3 and 4 trails all day, stuff that made lifted Discos and a stock IIa 88" suffer.  The 4.6 never hesitated...a surprise to us all.  Give it a try.

Ron Ward

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 04:10PM >>>

the 95 range rovers are selling under 20k now.
i had a 87 classic and liked it.  i have
2 series (so i am posting to the leaf list cause
i want mechanical-type advise).  anyway, could
i be happy with the new body-style rangie...

like (for example) does the spring replacement for
the air-bag suspension work on this model, too.

other things like that...

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:29:16 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

>oh, so you don't get the Musso or the Ford Ka there then...
>Best Cheers
>
>Frank

No we don't but I've seen the Ka in magazines and they had the Musso in Fiji 
when I lived there. The Pontiac is worse. The worst thing is they call it an 
SUV. I call it a minivan gone horribly wrong.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:35:33 -0400 
From: "Sergi, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Sandblasting

Can anyone help; I tried using Black Beauty 12/40 mesh (medium grade) to
sandblast the bulkhead and the resulting pattern seems to be too coarse to
give a good finish?  I test primed it and it seems like the surface will
smooth out with some sanding.  Can anyone give me some insight on blasting
the bulkhead?  Is the surface left after blasting with the medium black
beauty good enough for the bulkhead?  Or do I need to step down to a fine
grade?  I am using a self-etching primer, primer and then a sprayed enamel.
I not looking for a showroom finish, though.  Just want to take the time to
treat the bulkhead right as it is original to the Series with only minor
surface rust and no repairs required.

Mike
64 SIIA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:43:52 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

> I call it a minivan gone horribly wrong.

Think of it as a Nissan Pathfiner who's mother took thalidomide....

               aj"Gives GM a whole new meaning in auto engineering..."r

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 07:42:54 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

Yes, Warn M-11, which are no longer in production.

Joseph S Dufresne wrote:
> Let me re-phrase that.

Do land rovers use the hubs designed and patented by Warn, or a diffrent
type?

Joe
- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 07:46:55 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

Which axle? Stock Rover axle, I don't think you can get anything lower.
The Salisbury, any Dana 60 ratio you want. ENV, I have no idea.

Joseph S Dufresne wrote:
> 
> How low can I go in a LR axle?
> 
> Joe
> 
> TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> 
> >But I suspect that it is an observation based mostly upon the difference
> >between 3.5 & 4.7 ring & pinions.  With coiler gearing idling is way fast.
> 
> Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
> http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
> 78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking
> Scouts.

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 01 06:51:24 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

>How low can I go in a LR axle?
>Joe

Stock is 4.7 and you end up with a 55 MPH highway cruise speed.  What you 
would want to do is add a gearbox with a granny first gear if you want a 
lower ration and to be able to drive the vehicle on the highway.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:01:40 +0100
From: "Phil Norris" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

OUCH!!  That IS ugly....  Makes a Musso look positively attractive!!
PhilN
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hall <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Date: 01 July 2001 18:57
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

>http://www.pontiac.com/aztek/index.html
>
>Frank Elson wrote:
>>
>> where can I get to see one of these?
>> Best Cheers
>>
>> Frank
>>     +--+--+--+
>>      I !__|  [_]|_\___
>>      I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
>>      "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Peter Ogilvie <[email-masked]>
>> To: <[email-masked]>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic
>>
>> > Checked out the Renault, its a work of art compared to the Aztec.  At
>> least
>> > the Renault looks it was designed by a team of designers who worked
>> together
>> > and communicated.  The Aztec looks like a bunch of designers
individually
>> > designed parts of the car and never met or saw the work the others were
>> > doing until it was assembled.  Saw one actually being driven today.  My
>> > first thought was, how could any auto company let that design out on
the
>> > road??  Then I realized it was an Aztec and I still couldn't figure out
>> how
>> > the thing ever got out of the prototype stage.  It actually looks like
one
>> > car on top of another like they designed 1 1/2 cars and didn't have the
>> > heart to kill off the extra 1/2.
>> >
>> > Aloha
>> > Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>> >
>> >
>
>--
>Jim Hall
>1966 88" Elephant Chaser
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
>"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
>with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:18:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: 95 rangie and on...

i think there were some earlier postings that 
the 4.6 engine was perhaps at the engineering
extreme and was problematic.  any thoughts
on this.  but i also think the 4.6 came out
later and if i am in the under $20k market, i
would have the 4.0 as my choice...  ray

On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, RON WARD wrote:

> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:30:49 -0400
> From: RON WARD <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: LRO: 95 rangie and on...
> 
> That's a good question.  I think the coil conversion is available/possible on a new body Range Rover, but consider this...  The new body style Range Rover is a 2nd or 3rd generation EAS system that is very sophisticated and, I'm told, trouble free.  In fully extended height, the new Rangie has more body clearance than a D90.  But the smaller, less aggressive tires will limit the under axle clearance.
> 
> I recently went on a weekend off-road event and the truck behind me was a Callaway Range Rover 4.6 with 17" rims and Pirelli Scorpions.  We were on level 3 and 4 trails all day, stuff that made lifted Discos and a stock IIa 88" suffer.  The 4.6 never hesitated...a surprise to us all.  Give it a try.
> 
> Ron Ward
> 
> >>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 04:10PM >>>
> 
> the 95 range rovers are selling under 20k now.
> i had a 87 classic and liked it.  i have
> 2 series (so i am posting to the leaf list cause
> i want mechanical-type advise).  anyway, could
> i be happy with the new body-style rangie...
> 
> like (for example) does the spring replacement for
> the air-bag suspension work on this model, too.
> 
> other things like that...
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ray Harder 
> 
> 

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Jul 01 07:31:00 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

>TA, like I said, you can try and fool yourself.... no bubbles burst here.
>If this is a series only list how come there are so many people on it with
>large American V8s in their vehicles?

Why not?  Rover was dropping an American V8 into series rigs in the 
nineteen seventies.

In America, small block V8s are the common inexpensive universal 
replacement engine, parts are very cheap and they are a lot more rugged 
and dependable than the American V8 that General Motors sold to Rover.  

People in the UK have a very different set of engines to play with than 
people in the States.  If someone in the States feels the need for a 
little more power the cheap reliable engine is the common small block 
V8s.  Whereas in the UK you may go to an IVECO engine or something like 
that.

It is no different than UK people putting in IVECO, peugout, or other 
more powerful,  or less expensive diesel into their LRs.

Considering how the Brits modify series rigs without a bit of hesitation 
I'm surprised you are taking the stance that you are.

The first re-engined LR I rode in was in the UK.  It had a Jag V-12 power 
plant.

I too have opinions.  A lot of them as a matter for fact.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
[email-masked]           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.shadow-catcher.net      <- Photography for sale
http://www.overlander.net          <- Web directory for Land Rover 
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   <- My personal web site

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

------------------------------

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