Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #430

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 01:00:06 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *  Sunday, July 1 2001  Volume 01 : Number 430

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:04:19 -0700
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: off topic - fishing

>Nova Scotia an island???
>Funny I never felt it move.

Poking at an old  familial wound.  Once made a statement of 
geographic comparison of NS to Vancouver Island.  My Canadian wife 
completely disagreed on the basis that a little bit of land bridge 
makes NS a  peninsula whereas I contend the the biggest difference is 
the number of ferry boats.  :-)

BTW Vancouver Island does move... did a couple times so far this 
year, along with part of Washington state.

G. Mugele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:16:29 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Forgot about muddy, know your one of the proponents of big and I believe fat 
tires.  I've got nothing against tall rubber, just the fat stuff driven by a 
the puny 71hp of a stock series.  Believe your running MT's also, could the 
tread be the difference.  An awful lot of people seem to be wimping out and 
putting AT's on their Rovers.  Fine tires for most conditions until it rains 
or gets rocky.  Would a 33 or 34x9.50 MT work just as well as a 35x12.50x15. 
  Next time your flush, why don't you buy a set of tall skinnier tires and 
do a test for us.

Also I believe your worst conditions are bottomless muck when the horrors of 
winter finally give up their freezing grip on the bosom of mother earth.  
These are the kind of conditions, like sand, where your trying to climb the 
bow wave on spinning tires before gravity sucks you into the trough. A very 
important time to be able to motivate but limited in duration.

That's a great scenario for gobs of horsepower.  I keep opening the 
hoods/bonnets of my Rovers and have never been overwhelmed by the gobs 
running around in there.  Besides, Gobs isn't necessarily an essential part 
of offroading.  Thought it interesting that one of American 4WD Rags did a 
big article on prepping an ultimate rock crawler that started life as a Jeep 
Wrangler.  Not much left of the Wrangler when they finished except the 4 
cylinder engine.

Aloha
Peter O.

>From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil 
>comments bewarned
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:09:41 -0300
>
>Peter, ask anyone who has seen old Muddy offroad if 35inch tires are
>just for posing.
>John....and Muddy
>
>Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> >
> > Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth 
>that
> > the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator.  I'm a 
>big
> > proponent of ground clearance though have found 32" tires get me where I
> > want to go.  With all respect to Peter H. can't see anything wider than 
>a
> > 9.5" tire on a 2 1/4 powered series truck.  Also can't imagine a taller 
>tire
> > than 33" on a series without widening the track.  You'd huli the truck 
>on a
> > 20 degree sideslope with anything bigger.  Just because the mall poseurs
> > take along ladders to climb into the cab, doesn't mean they really work 
>off
> > road.  More likely it's just a vain fashion statement to impress the 
>chicks.
> >   Peter H's comments against Defender owners also applies to the big 
>tire
> > American Iron crowd.  Of course, when you take your 143" wheelbase 
>extended
> > cab pickup, with custom pinstriping and graphics, offroad, you need 40"
> > tires to get the same breakover angle as a Series on 31" tires.  With a
> > wheel base that long you aren't going to get far off road, in any case.
> >
> > As far as Joe, it sounds like he ought to strip the rusty body off his
> > scout, buy a bulkhead, rear tub, fenders, and breakfast, adjust the 
>Scout
> > frame accordingly and graft the body onto the Scout Frame.  The only 
>thing
> > that will be left of the series is the look.  Why waste a good series 
>doing
> > this.  If all he wants is the looks, its easier and cheaper to do it 
>with
> > parts than butchering a whole truck.  Hell, if he wants to pay the 
>shipping,
> > I'll give him an 88 tub that is pre customized for rock work.  If he 
>insists
> > on Rover underpinnings, a coil frame and donations from a RR may get him
> > what he wants.  Though that conversion may not be cheap.
> >
> > Some modifications to a series make sense.  A more efficient, more 
>powerful
> > motor would be nice to have but not a big American V8 unless you're also
> > going to swap in an appropriate transmission and axles.  Especially on a
> > 109, power steering would be nice, your going to be doing a lot of wheel
> > twisting to get that long wheelbase, huge turning circle vehicle into 
>even
> > open spaces.  Of course, if you had 9.5" or narrower tires, power 
>steering
> > wouldn't be needed quite so much.  Only drastic modifications to the 
>front
> > suspension will get you a lot more articulation.  More cost effective to
> > just install parabolics and put lockers all round.  Extending the spring
> > mounts and putting on longer front springs and shock towers won't get 
>you
> > nearly as far as the above modification.  A way to get the road cruising
> > speed up a little at a more comfortable rpm would be nice, especially if
> > your running 100hp or so.  Going faster than 70mph on ANY off road 
>capable
> > truck is irresponsible and dangerous to the rest of us.  An offroad 
>capable
> > truck is physically unsuitable for highspeed on road work.  Yeah, you 
>can
> > put air springs and electronic suspension (sound familiar) to lower and
> > stiffen the suspension for road work and then pump it up and give the 
>wheel
> > travel needed for off road work.  For most of us mortals, the 
>combination of
> > high CG for ground clearance and the reliability of springs and 
>mechanical
> > suspension means we have to drive prudently on the road.
> >
> > Use a little common sense in how you want to modify your Series truck.  
>If
> > you want a gonzo rock crawler, it ain't a series truck.  With a few
> > judicious and cost effective changes, you can have a series truck that 
>will
> > get you almost anywhere that 4 wheels will go, however, and still have a
> > vehicle that bears a close resemblance to the Series Truck that you 
>started
> > with.  Don't spend a lot of money on a paint job, if your going to USE 
>your
> > truck off road.  You WILL be customizing the body work.
> >
> > Aloha
> > Peter O
> >
> > >From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
> > >Reply-To: [email-masked]
> > >To: <[email-masked]>
> > >Subject: LRO:  Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned
> > >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
> > >
> > > >
> > > >    While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the
> > >list,
> > >it pains me that your statements ring true.  I know many leafers don't 
>care
> > >about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes.  It seeps 
>into
> > >the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult 
>time
> > >planning events between the two groups.  Those of us who own 
>coil-sprung
> > >rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series 
>trucks
> > >and
> > >learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.
> > >
> > >
> > >Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that 
>fall
> > >into this description.
> > >A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and 
>chat
> > >with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get 
>togethers.
> > >Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them.  I am not
> > >talking about the station wagon soccer moms either.  If it's a stock
> > >looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more.  I 
>am
> > >talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, 
>racks
> > >etc.    Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
> > >pineapple fields or to Keana Pt.  Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
> > >Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield.  Tell them about the 
>knee
> > >deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time 
>I
> > >had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face 
>like
> > >we are talking about going to mars.  These people have the pushbars so 
>they
> > >dont scratch their fenders in parking lots.  They thought that those 
>three
> > >white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ 
>on
> > >their vehicle.  Don't really use the lights, because that would mean
> > >getting
> > >ut of the vehicle to remove the covers.  The roof rack is to put the 
>beach
> > >chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle.  The tires, well it's a
> > >truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck.  The three Defender guys 
>I
> > >have met on Island bought the "image".  They have money and want 
>everyone
> > >to
> > >know.  Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3.  You know, the people 
>who
> > >think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle 
>used
> > >by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII.  Had one guy go into 
>this
> > >long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land 
>Rover
> > >for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
> > >never sold to the general public.  Other oil companies, logging 
>companies,
> > >mines, etc were the only one that got them.
> > >
> > >I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I 
>know
> > >that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but 
>it
> > >does describe the majority of coil owners.  It has been mentioned on 
>this
> > >list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a 
>market
> > >for
> > >a true utility type 4x4.  I hope they do, but you know what, I think 
>the
> > >market is very, very, very small.  Ford bought a Name.  If the Defender
> > >line
> > >continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody 
>design
> > >vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all 
>the
> > >electric gadgets you can imagine.  Some people believe that this
> > >elctrickery
> > >makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list 
>about
> > >this.  People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many 
>vehicles
> > >towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car 
>that
> > >had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out.  If you are 
>looking
> > >for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then 
>buy a
> > >brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years.  But dont try and 
>tell
> > >me
> > >that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would 
>have
> > >been when it was 10 years old.  And if you believe that a coiler is 
>more
> > >reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison.  I will wager a 
>months
> > >pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all 
>the
> > >money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle
> > >then
> > >the person that buys a Disco II.
> > >
> > >I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad.  I would love to get 
>a
> > >1975 2 door rangie.  Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for 
>webers,
> > >but I would be happy with the rest of the package.  For my next project 
>I
> > >want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top.  Diesel engine and auto 
>tranny.
> > >Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance.  I 
>can't
> > >wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and 
>see
> > >how they have built their rigs.  From the photos I have seen and the 
>people
> > >I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an 
>apprentice
> > >for a while.  To me the Rover is a big lego set.  I like the looks.  I 
>like
> > >working on them.  I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks.  I love 
>that
> > >I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
> > >still laugh at that one.  I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
> > >gearing.  Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" 
>the
> > >88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me.  I do 
>cringe
> > >at
> > >times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there 
>are
> > >people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle.  
>But
> > >I am happy with it.  The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable 
>is
> > >to change the shape of the rear wheel wells.  If I ever got rid of the
> > >thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a 
>stock
> > >series again.  Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 
>33's
> > >and a v-8 in a Series rig?  he was run off pretty quick.  Think some 
>are
> > >trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out 
>discussing
> > >my plans I would have been run off also.  BTW I found this list 
>sometime in
> > >mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move 
>to
> > >Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here.  Other then asking 
>questions,
> > >I stayed pretty quiete for another year.  I saw alot of how the
> > >non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
> > >Well that is enough for now I am sure,
> > >Pete
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:35:54 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: benefits of coil springs

Talking of poly bushes, I've heard that they squeek or otherwise make noise. 
  I've got this disconcerting noise, sounds like the noise a speedometer 
cable makes just before it breaks, but is bump related.  Can duplicate it by 
jumping up and down on the front bumper or drive over rough terrain.  Best I 
can tell, its coming from the front spring perch on my poly equipped RM 
springs.  Could this be the dreaded Polybush squeak???  Suppose I should oil 
up the bushing and see if it goes away.  Any one else experienced this with 
RM parabolics or Polybush equipped series trucks??

For you stock spring lovers, jumping up and down on the front bumper with 
stock springs wouldn't have caused any noise because the springs wouldn't 
have depressed at all.  BTDT.

Aloha
Peter O

>From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: benefits of coil springs
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:37:44 -0600
>
>Oh, I also undid the spring clamps on the rear so that at full drop, the
>main leaves separate from the rest of the pack. Polybushes help too.
>
>Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> >
> > Cheap buggah!!  Mixing and matching and you blame abuse for breaking
> > springs.  I finally got tired of keeping my rusty springs going and 
>opted
> > for a set of parabolics.  2 years without having to swapout/make up a 
>spring
> > pack.  Amazing how long new springs will last even though they aren't 
>rust
> > welded into an immovable mass like the typical sets I used to run.
> >
> > Aloha
> > Peter O
> >
> > >From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
> > >
> > >Coil springs would be nice on a series if only for the reason that then
> > >I would stop breaking my front leafs. This is the 3rd time!! I guess 
>I'm
> > >too hard on the poor thing. At least this time it wasn't the main leaf
> > >like the other two breaks were. This time I broke one of the scout
> > >leaves that I have intermingled with the rover ones. Time to rummage
> > >through the stack of spare leaves behind the garage I guess.
> > >--
> > >Jim Hall
> > >1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> > >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> > >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
> > >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>--
>Jim Hall
>1966 88" Elephant Chaser
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
>"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
>with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:54:09 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
Subject: Re: LRO: off topic - fishing

"G. Mugele" wrote:
> 
> >Nova Scotia an island???
> >Funny I never felt it move.
> 
> 
> BTW Vancouver Island does move... did a couple times so far this
> year, along with part of Washington state.
> 
> G. Mugele

Nice to know the earth still moves for you and your wife :)
John and Muddy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:59:18 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments  bewarned

Peter Ogilvie wrote:

>   Next time your flush, why don't you buy a set of tall skinnier tires and
> do a test for us.
> 

I don't think anyone here has time to wait for that eventuality  :)
John and Muddy

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:03:12 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Leaf vs coil attitude, you guys have it made

> In the US, Land Rover is
> extremely supportive of the entire family of trucks, form Series I to the
> 2002
> models.

Just wondering where in the US you are refering?
In it's press release for the upcoming release of the Freelander in the US,
LRNA said that the Freelander traced it's heritage back to the very first
Land Rovers produced in 1948, the Defender.
Someone from the list wrote LRNA and tried to correct this to read the
Series I.  LRNA replied that they never imported Series vehicles (LRNA was
formed in the late 80's early 90's) so wouldn't be making the correction.
During the50th the Rover dealers wanted series machines around forthe
publicity, but since then nothing.  My brother in law asked me yesterday why
I just don't go to the dealership in downtown Honolulu to get the parts for
my Series IIa.  I couldn't stop laughing for a couple of minutes.
The dealerships I have been to seem to perpetuate the whole "leafers aren't
good enough to associate with" attitude that I emntioned in the first post.
They have a spare tire cover here that has a Rhino on it and the Rover oval
and "Land Rover Hawaii".  I wanted to get one and was going to glue one of
my Aloha Rover ovals over the LR one.  Went into the dealership parts.  Told
the guy I wanted to buy "one of those Disco spare tire covers with the
rhino".
Parts Guy-"Do you have a Series I or II"
Me-"IIa...88"
PG-"Huh?"
Me-"I have a 1970 Series IIa 88 inch softtop"
PG-"Oh, the cover is for the Discovery"
Me-"Yes I would like to buy one"
PG-"It won't  fit your vehicle"
Me-"I would like to buy one anyway"  :-)
PG-"Sorry we are out of stock"  to the lady next to me "Can I help you
maam?"

Or better yet, on of the guys on the island has an early grey market Range
Rover.  Went to the dealership to get a clutch kit.  He was told "Range
Rovers have automatics sir, you don't need a clutch"

Again, I know that my experiances with dealerships and coil owners is pretty
limited and I am not saying my experiances are the norm in the USA.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:04:33 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Leaf vs coil attitude, you guys have it made

> In the USA, the corporation that is LRNA started out as Range Rover North
> America when the RR was first to be brought in - there is no connectivity
> to the original LR organization and they want to keep it that way.
>

Because if they do they would then have to explain how come a vehicle that
cost 30k in England cost 80k in the US
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:30:25 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: benefits of coil springs

I slathered mine with lots of antisieze before I put them in. No squeaks 
yet.

Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> 
> Talking of poly bushes, I've heard that they squeek or otherwise make noise.
>   I've got this disconcerting noise, sounds like the noise a speedometer
> cable makes just before it breaks, but is bump related.  Can duplicate it by
> jumping up and down on the front bumper or drive over rough terrain.  Best I
> can tell, its coming from the front spring perch on my poly equipped RM
> springs.  Could this be the dreaded Polybush squeak???  Suppose I should oil
> up the bushing and see if it goes away.  Any one else experienced this with
> RM parabolics or Polybush equipped series trucks??
> 
> For you stock spring lovers, jumping up and down on the front bumper with
> stock springs wouldn't have caused any noise because the springs wouldn't
> have depressed at all.  BTDT.

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:04:32 -0700
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: off topic - fishing

"BTW Vancouver Island does move... did a couple times so far this
year, along with part of Washington state."

And 'they' are still predicting a move of 10 feet (3 meters) back west
sometime in the next few centuries.  Seems that the Juan de Fuca plate has
been pushing us east for a few hundred years and the time is ripe for a bit
of a bounce back... much like the stock market correction...

Estimates give the jump about a magnitude 9...

Paul in Victoria
Vancouver Island
British Columbia
Canada
1961 SII 88.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:09:22 -0400
From: "Rolston" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Gravity

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Proved gravity still works.....laid our 1968 ambulance/camper over on =
it's side last Sunday.....nice and slow, just broke the mirror =
glass.....now we know our limits.  Jim

And for what it is worth, in a case like that, the wider discos and RR =
were having no problem, so everything is a compromise. =20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Proved gravity still works.....laid our =
1968=20
ambulance/camper over on it's side last Sunday.....nice and slow, just =
broke the=20
mirror glass.....now we know our limits.&nbsp; Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And for what it is worth, in a case =
like that, the=20
wider discos and RR were having no problem, so everything is a =
compromise.&nbsp;=20
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:39:59 +0100
From: "Mike Rogers" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Phew, life's too short to read all this.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid  (yep a series on coils)
LPG V8 110 project (thanks to Marijn)
(if you can't get there in a Land Rover you can't get there)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:31:01 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

In article <[email-masked]>, John Cranfield wrote:
> Maybe but the Rover six predates the pound coin :)
>
In fact it pre-dates ALL current British coinage.

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:48:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Tried sending a list of Galvanizers in North America, , didn't go through

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Jeff Berg wrote:

> NO. But if you send it to me, I'll put it on my website for all to 
> share... Or maybe Dixon will put it in the appopriate area of the FAQ.

	http://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.6.galvanise.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:57:58 -0400
From: Rick and Laura Lamb <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Overdrives

          Does anybody have any info on a 5 speed swap into a series
rig?
          Overdrives are getting harder and harder to come by. I'm
getting
           tired of " nicking" 1st and 2nd. I have a 70 Lightweight and
my wife
           has a 88 RR and I can appreciate both trucks off road. I,m
not afraid
           to get water up to my seat in the 88" when I get home I just
change the
           90 weight in the trans and transfer case and the trucks fine.

Rick Lamb

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:06:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Jeff Berg wrote:

> As I said, otherwise a concise and excellent introduction to the 
> Marque--perhaps worthy of being archived in the FAQ. Dixon?

Well, there is http://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.history.html already.

As per some slight inaccuracies, Bantam originally developed the Jeep, but
being a small company, the bulk of the contracts to build the original
Jeep went to better positioned companies such as Willys, Ford and others.

Jeff is correct about the aluminium versus steel issue.  Aluminium was
plentiful (lots of aircraft being decomissioned etc), and steel was being
rationed.  In fact, how much steel you received was a direct relationship
with your level of exports.  Rover was forced over to aluminium for these
reasons, and others.  And don't forget, as far as Rover was concerned, the
LR was only a short term stopgap to fill in production until their cars
took off.

The IIA vs II was more a change in the way that suffix letters were to be
used.  If continued, there would have been the IIB, IIC, IID up through G
as major changes were implimented, but this was never really followed.
see http://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.S.Chassis_Numbers.suffix.IIA.html

You can see from this table that changes occurred all throughout the IIA
history, and to some on this list (Russell Dushin, myself etc) the
traitorous switch to negative earth and the implication of the future
demise of the corporation under BL, BAe, BMW and now Ford can proably be
traced to this ill-informed decision.  The Series III (which was really
nothing spectacular as most of the "innovations" found in the III
(alternator, all synchro gearbox, headlamps in the wings, vinyl dash, etc)
existed in the last Series IIA vehicles.

> full, accurate, and equally well researched report regarding "The 
> Girls On the Beach" tomorrow.

Hmmm, have to look for this... :-)

Rgds,

Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Tach wiring

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Keith Tanner wrote:

> I'm going to retrofit a Fiat tach into my IIa. The truck was originally 
> positive earth but has been switched over. 

The thin edge of the wedge...  The poor Rover is doomed...  It can be
saved you know!

> mentions the need for a voltage stabilizer for her MG tach.

If it did, your install will need one.  Installing one is pretty basic,
same as on any other Brit vehicle.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:15:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: new scout guy

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Keith Tanner wrote:

> Yeah. Everyone knows you can't put magnets on a real Land Rover body :)

???  Lucas Tri-polar magnets stick to the Burmabright...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:23:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Leaf vs coil attitude, you guys have it made

On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Hope Peter wrote:

> Parts Guy-"Do you have a Series I or II"

You should have said "Two eh" and implied you were Canadian.  Like tire
sizes really change that much between the different vehicles...
Amazing...  

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:17:05 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Leaf vs coil attitude, you guys have it made

In article <[email-masked]>, Hope Peter 
wrote:
> a spare tire cover here that has a Rhino on it
>
Over here Rhino`s are firmly associated with Suzuki. 

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

P.S. My spell checker suggested "Suck" in place of Suzuki. (Not an 
opinion, just a report ;) 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:27:15 -0400
From: "Larry Smith" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: engine conversion

Winn,

Picked up a 2.5 TD yesterday at a "semi"local salvage yard.  Very complete.
Just need the oil cooler and some other bits.  Will be contacting Steve
Parker Monday or Tuesday for some addition info.

Again, many thanks for the kit.

Best regards,

Larry Smith
Chester, VA
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Winn Bearden" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: 08 March, 2001 02:11 AM
Subject: LRO: engine conversion

>     Here's my second posting on the Peugeot  conversion kit.  As most of
you
> know, I was accidentally sent the 4-cyl. kit instead of the 6-cyl..  So,
to try
> to be a nice guy and keep Steve Parker from having to eat the freight to
get
> the wrong kit back (he already had to eat the freight to get my correct
kit to
> me!) I told them I would try to sell the 4-cyl. kit stateside for them.
After
> my original post on the spare kit, I had at least 10 people responding
saying
> that they were interested.  With that response, I told Steve Parker Land
Rovers
> to go ahead and bill my card for it.  Then when I mention on the list that
the
> kit is available for 500 bucks.......silence! Thats what I've got in it;
295
> pounds(442 USD) plus 55 bucks for customs.  I'm not making anything off of
> this, I was only trying to help everyone out!
>     These turbodiesels are easy to find. I've run across three in the past
two
> weeks.  The 2.3 puts out 80HP @4150 RPM and torque is 136@2000.  The 2.5
TD
> puts out 95 HP (don't know the torque.)  The kit is complete with the
> conversion plate, motor mounts and brackets, radiator hoses, flywheel
bushing,
> and even an accelerator cable!  Every nut and bolt needed is also
included.
>
>
>     C'mon guys, don't leave me holding the bag!
>
> --
> Winn Bearden          19XX SIIa/SIII/RR 100" Hybrid
> P.O. Box 464          1967 NADA 109" SW (in pieces)
> Americus, GA 31709    1996 4.0 SE
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:31:52 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

Free Wheeling Hubs, the Anglo word for locking hubs.

adam

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:10:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Jeff Berg wrote:

> As I said, otherwise a concise and excellent introduction to the 
> Marque--perhaps worthy of being archived in the FAQ. Dixon?

Actually, there is another version of the history here...

	Http://www.ovlr.org/cword/MJ.rover.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:57:27 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Coin of the realm

William L Leacock <[email-masked]>

>Sorry Sandy, in the days when they made the ROVER 3 litre, ten bob was a
>note.  The coin frequently used in those gimmicky trials was a 3 penny
>piece which had ten or twelve sides so it stood up easily.

Wasn't really sure of the denomination....However, I do have a print ad
image in the archives of a coin balanced on edge on the 3.0 litre and it is
*round*, not sided...of course, there's no way to tell if the engine is
*running*....

Not really sure what it is/was...it appears to be copper, about the size of
our 50 cent piece (when was the last time you saw one of those??) but twice
as thick....

Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----*
  |                                                    |
  |              A. P. "Sandy" Grice                   |
  |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
  |  (757)423-4898  (757)622-7054  FAX (757)622-7056   |
  |                                                    |
  *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:25:22 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

Ah, ok.  Are the rover ones a variation of the Warn design, or something else?

Joe

Hope Peter wrote:

>>whats FWH?
>Free Wheel Hubs.
>Pete

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
"Don't shoot to kill, shoot to live!" 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:25:26 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil com

It never ceases to amaze me how many think 4x4 = mud truck.

I do mud when encountered on trails, but for me it's mostly rocks, where 
you do need the ground clearance

Joe

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>It really depends upon your terrain and how deep the mushy stuff goes.
>In general, if you are in deep muck you want to try and stay on top
>digging forward faster than digging downward.  In shallow muck you want
>to dig down to the firm stuff.

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:25:32 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

But do you need that many horses?  I've always been a fan of moderate power 
combined with proper gearing.

Joe

[email-masked] wrote:

>bigger intercoolers.  ive heard of 250hp 300lb ft 300 tdis.
>adam

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:25:28 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>You need to clear the wing openings and the inner wings.  I'm running
>265/75/16 mud terrains and on full upward articulation the tyres just
>kiss the rear inner wings.
>

Well, looking at the light weight pics Ive found, i'm thinking move the 
marker lights and trimm the front of the wing.  if i can find a II, make it 
flat

>The front action seems to be basically just up and down.  So a basic
>spring over axle conversion will allow you to run 35s or 36's.
>

I'm wondering what axle to use.  A good choice migh be a dana 44 or 60 from 
a chevy, then trim the long side.  leave it 2-3" wider than stock

>The rear wheels also dance around in a twisting motion bringing one wheel
>forwards and one rearwards.  It is a lot more complex motion pattern than
>the front sees.
>

4 link

>I've seen some people handle 35's by cutting the rear inner wing and
>rebuilding it by moving it inwards towards the centre, providing more
>space for upward articulation.
>

That i'd rather not do, wanna avoid body work.  i'd swap ina wider axle as 
first choice

>Here is something else to think about.  A series Land Rover was designed
>to fit through the average farm gate in Scotland.  It is a lot narrower
>than most all the 4X4s out there.
>

scout front axle BP to BP is 58".  whats on a series?

>Doing a axle over conversion will raise the centre of gravity by a fair
>amount.  I do not know where you play but if it includes side slopes be
>sure you install a functional full roll cage.
>

northen / western utah.  And a cage will come before any mods

>Modifications are a series of comprimises.  Be sure you know the
>tradeoffs.
>

I know.  the engineers have to build for everyone, I build for me

Joe

>TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
>Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
>[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
>                              and more
>http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:25:27 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

>Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2001 18:22:00 -0700 (MST)
>To: LRO list <[email-masked]>
>Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe
>From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
>
>>the 200Tdi and 300Tdi land rover diesels are awesome machines.  200 ft lbs
>>at 1800 rpm from a 2.5 L inline 4 diesel.  many many companies in the uk
>>mae hotter parts for them as well, including stroker kits, bigger turbos,
>>and bigger intercoolers.  ive heard of 250hp 300lb ft 300 tdis.
>That's nice.  But if I were going to a small diesel in a LR I would
>probably go with the SD33T then boost the turbo and intercooler.  The

I'm not sure I would. given the hevier weight of the scout, I'd find a 
non-turbo (easier) and use it.  or if Ihad a military model,i'd go with a 
engine from a forklift, those are generally 24V.  one guy is swaping a 1983 
nissian sd and five speed from  patrol into his scout.  supposed to develop 
130 horses

>SD33T would just about fit into a '67 NADA 109 with very few
>modifications.  THen you have that bullet proff T-18 or T-19 that bolts
>up with off the shelf parts.  Build ani

well, all diesel scouts came with the "close" t-19, with only a 4.02 1st 
gear.  the "wide version"  like I have uses a decent 6.32 first, but try 
buying one, they're real popular among the rock crowd.

Does the 5 speed in th LR use a removeable bell housing?  If so i'd use it, 
and a modified housing

>  adaptor to go to a series transfer
>case and pop in a rear Salisbury

Defiently.  one of the things i like about the rover is the offset rear output.

>(Land ROver style Dana 60).  The SD33T

whats the diffrence?  buying zand building one is a possibility

>has very similar power specs to the 300 tdi.  A difference is that the
>SD33T has a small turbo boost and no intercooler where as the baisc 300
>tdi has higher boost and an intercooler.
>

As lomg as you're in no hurry, the sd33 and turbo'd version are great engines

>If I'm going to play with turbo boost and intercoolers I would rather
>start with a 3.3L six cylinder diesel built using BIG diesel type
>construction.  And a six cylinder is just a little bit smoother.
>

Actuall, if you wanna be impressed, first take apart an aircraft engine, 
then take apart a SD.

>Besides putting a late Scout engine into a LR would help Joe feel more at
>home.
>Also, Joe, if you want power steering in a left hand drive LR, the Scout
>II power steering box is the best option.
>

Well, power steering is nice, but I was thinking more of power 
brakes.  since the GM hydroboost uses the powersteering pump, it's an easy 
upgrade for vehicles never equiped

Joe

>TeriAnn
>                      http://www.overlander.net
>  The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners
>  with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide.

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts. 

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #430
**********************************************