Peter, ask anyone who has seen old Muddy offroad if 35inch tires are
just for posing.
John....and Muddy
Peter Ogilvie wrote:
>
> Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth that
> the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator. I'm a big
> proponent of ground clearance though have found 32" tires get me where I
> want to go. With all respect to Peter H. can't see anything wider than a
> 9.5" tire on a 2 1/4 powered series truck. Also can't imagine a taller tire
> than 33" on a series without widening the track. You'd huli the truck on a
> 20 degree sideslope with anything bigger. Just because the mall poseurs
> take along ladders to climb into the cab, doesn't mean they really work off
> road. More likely it's just a vain fashion statement to impress the chicks.
> Peter H's comments against Defender owners also applies to the big tire
> American Iron crowd. Of course, when you take your 143" wheelbase extended
> cab pickup, with custom pinstriping and graphics, offroad, you need 40"
> tires to get the same breakover angle as a Series on 31" tires. With a
> wheel base that long you aren't going to get far off road, in any case.
>
> As far as Joe, it sounds like he ought to strip the rusty body off his
> scout, buy a bulkhead, rear tub, fenders, and breakfast, adjust the Scout
> frame accordingly and graft the body onto the Scout Frame. The only thing
> that will be left of the series is the look. Why waste a good series doing
> this. If all he wants is the looks, its easier and cheaper to do it with
> parts than butchering a whole truck. Hell, if he wants to pay the shipping,
> I'll give him an 88 tub that is pre customized for rock work. If he insists
> on Rover underpinnings, a coil frame and donations from a RR may get him
> what he wants. Though that conversion may not be cheap.
>
> Some modifications to a series make sense. A more efficient, more powerful
> motor would be nice to have but not a big American V8 unless you're also
> going to swap in an appropriate transmission and axles. Especially on a
> 109, power steering would be nice, your going to be doing a lot of wheel
> twisting to get that long wheelbase, huge turning circle vehicle into even
> open spaces. Of course, if you had 9.5" or narrower tires, power steering
> wouldn't be needed quite so much. Only drastic modifications to the front
> suspension will get you a lot more articulation. More cost effective to
> just install parabolics and put lockers all round. Extending the spring
> mounts and putting on longer front springs and shock towers won't get you
> nearly as far as the above modification. A way to get the road cruising
> speed up a little at a more comfortable rpm would be nice, especially if
> your running 100hp or so. Going faster than 70mph on ANY off road capable
> truck is irresponsible and dangerous to the rest of us. An offroad capable
> truck is physically unsuitable for highspeed on road work. Yeah, you can
> put air springs and electronic suspension (sound familiar) to lower and
> stiffen the suspension for road work and then pump it up and give the wheel
> travel needed for off road work. For most of us mortals, the combination of
> high CG for ground clearance and the reliability of springs and mechanical
> suspension means we have to drive prudently on the road.
>
> Use a little common sense in how you want to modify your Series truck. If
> you want a gonzo rock crawler, it ain't a series truck. With a few
> judicious and cost effective changes, you can have a series truck that will
> get you almost anywhere that 4 wheels will go, however, and still have a
> vehicle that bears a close resemblance to the Series Truck that you started
> with. Don't spend a lot of money on a paint job, if your going to USE your
> truck off road. You WILL be customizing the body work.
>
> Aloha
> Peter O
>
> >From: "Hope Peter" <hope_peter@bah.com>
> >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net
> >To: <lro@Works.Team.Net>
> >Subject: LRO: Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned
> >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
> >
> > >
> > > While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the
> >list,
> >it pains me that your statements ring true. I know many leafers don't care
> >about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes. It seeps into
> >the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
> >planning events between the two groups. Those of us who own coil-sprung
> >rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks
> >and
> >learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.
> >
> >
> >Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that fall
> >into this description.
> >A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and chat
> >with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get togethers.
> >Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them. I am not
> >talking about the station wagon soccer moms either. If it's a stock
> >looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more. I am
> >talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, racks
> >etc. Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
> >pineapple fields or to Keana Pt. Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
> >Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield. Tell them about the knee
> >deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time I
> >had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face like
> >we are talking about going to mars. These people have the pushbars so they
> >dont scratch their fenders in parking lots. They thought that those three
> >white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ on
> >their vehicle. Don't really use the lights, because that would mean
> >getting
> >ut of the vehicle to remove the covers. The roof rack is to put the beach
> >chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle. The tires, well it's a
> >truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck. The three Defender guys I
> >have met on Island bought the "image". They have money and want everyone
> >to
> >know. Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3. You know, the people who
> >think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle used
> >by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII. Had one guy go into this
> >long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land Rover
> >for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
> >never sold to the general public. Other oil companies, logging companies,
> >mines, etc were the only one that got them.
> >
> >I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I know
> >that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but it
> >does describe the majority of coil owners. It has been mentioned on this
> >list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a market
> >for
> >a true utility type 4x4. I hope they do, but you know what, I think the
> >market is very, very, very small. Ford bought a Name. If the Defender
> >line
> >continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody design
> >vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all the
> >electric gadgets you can imagine. Some people believe that this
> >elctrickery
> >makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list about
> >this. People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many vehicles
> >towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car that
> >had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out. If you are looking
> >for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then buy a
> >brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years. But dont try and tell
> >me
> >that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would have
> >been when it was 10 years old. And if you believe that a coiler is more
> >reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison. I will wager a months
> >pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all the
> >money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle
> >then
> >the person that buys a Disco II.
> >
> >I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad. I would love to get a
> >1975 2 door rangie. Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for webers,
> >but I would be happy with the rest of the package. For my next project I
> >want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top. Diesel engine and auto tranny.
> >Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance. I can't
> >wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and see
> >how they have built their rigs. From the photos I have seen and the people
> >I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an apprentice
> >for a while. To me the Rover is a big lego set. I like the looks. I like
> >working on them. I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks. I love that
> >I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
> >still laugh at that one. I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
> >gearing. Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" the
> >88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me. I do cringe
> >at
> >times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there are
> >people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle. But
> >I am happy with it. The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable is
> >to change the shape of the rear wheel wells. If I ever got rid of the
> >thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a stock
> >series again. Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 33's
> >and a v-8 in a Series rig? he was run off pretty quick. Think some are
> >trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out discussing
> >my plans I would have been run off also. BTW I found this list sometime in
> >mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move to
> >Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here. Other then asking questions,
> >I stayed pretty quiete for another year. I saw alot of how the
> >non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
> >Well that is enough for now I am sure,
> >Pete
> >
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Jun 30 2001 - 12:33:47 EDT