Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #425

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:44:44 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, June 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 425

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:21:19 -0400
From: "Sergi, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Galvanizers in North America 

Unbelievable that Houston, TX (where I am) seems to have the most
galvanizers in any area in the country, and I have chosen not to do the
frame or bulkhead in my restoration.
 
Mike

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:27:00 -0400
From: "Rodrigo Bejarano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: GPS help

I am considering the purchase of a GPS unit.

Regrettably the basic maps (of South America, more precisely Bolivia) that
come with Garmin and other popular units are outdated and innacurate. (not
to mention they do not have any secondary routes, neither dirt tracks)

Is there any way I can input more accurate (and detailed) road information
into any unit?

I want to "produce" a detailed road map we can transfer to all the units
within our off road club members (to be used as the standard base map), off
course we are more interested in being able to view the old abbandoned dirt
tracks than main roads.

What is the best (and affordable) GPS unit for this purpose and what
additional equipment (and software) is requiered for this purpose?

Rodrigo

1992 White V8 3.5 110 County   (Consider as a series IV)
La Paz
Bolivia

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:25:51 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Training wheels (was New Guy....)

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:32:30 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

>Not all series came with "little training wheels, some came stock with
7.5 x 16, which are about 32" tall. That is larger than the stock tires
of most all other 4wd's.

A lot of people poke fun at the "little training wheels" that came stock 
on a lot of Series Land Rovers.  These comments are mainly based on 
appearance, I believe.  The one thing everyone seems to overlook is that 
the "little training wheels" also reduce (or is it increase) the effective 
gearing of the vehicle.  Those little wheels and tires are like adding 
a lower gear in the drivetrain.  So while they may not look macho and 
cool, I suspect a Series with "training wheels" and tires of the appropriate 
tread will make it through some terrain that would stall out a Series with 
larger wheels and oversize tires.  It isn't all about ground clearance, you 
know.  In fact, it's been my experience that ground clearance isn't a factor 
all that much (outside of specialized rock crawling like Moab, etc.).  But 
in the "everyday" 4wd situations I've encountered in the 30-plus 
years I've been driving 4wds (Land Rover and other) ground clearance was 
almost never an issue.  Traction was the main concern, whether or not the 
vehicle would make it up the grade or through the mud or whatever.  But 
I can't recall a single time (I'm sure there were a few) when I was worried 
about hitting the ground with the bottom of the vehicle, even in the Range 
Rover, and I've driven on some pretty rough logging and mining roads (but 
not Moab, Rubicon, etc., where I readily acknowledge that ground 
clearance IS a big issue).

Because I'm an old timer by the standards 
of this group (I'm 53), a lot of my 4wd work was done back before tall, wide, 
macho tires had even been thought of.  All the Jeep CJs, Willys pickups, 
Dodge Powerwagons, weapons carriers, etc. that I drove in Colorado and 
other places were fitted with relatively narrow tires on small (by today's 
standards) wheels with very aggressive tread patterns.  And they all went 
just about anywhere we wanted them to.  Not very fast, not very stylish, but 
we always got where we needed to go.  I run the stock 15" wheels that came 
on my Series III, and it's done extremely well everywhere I've taken it.  So when I 
see a guy on the road in a Land Rover, Jeep, Scout, Bronco, etc. and 
the vehicle is equipped with smallish wheels and narrow tires, I figure 
"there goes a guy who knows how to drive off road."  These guys are 
few and far between.  When I see a guy in a 4wd with huge wheels, tall, 
wide tires, I figure "there goes a guy who's probably never driven off road 
in his life."  It's a case where looks are really deceiving.  You would think 
that the super-tough, macho-looking giant wheels and tires would be the 
best for off road work.  Big wide tires are ideal in some situations like sand 
 where you need a lot of floatation.  But for the most part, the narrow 
tire will do a better job, and a short set of "training wheels" will give you better 
gearing for the really rough stuff.  So don't knock the guys who elect to run 
"training wheels" on their Land Rovers. The chances are they're better 
set up for off road than most other people are.

___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:26:46 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Tried sending a list of Galvanizers in North America, , didn't go through

NO. But if you send it to me, I'll put it on my website for all to 
share... Or maybe Dixon will put it in the appopriate area of the FAQ.

jeff
- -- 
==                                                                   
  Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT        
                     [email-masked]
                      ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life, 
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:30:20 -0400
From: Michael Hatton <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover video

I have to say Sorensen bad! too. I work on a high end graphics machine
(Inferno on a 4 proc SGI Onyx RE2) and I still have to search out an NT to
view client videos - grrrrrrrr
LR content - still haven't heard a contrary opinion to having a bulkhead
galvanised and warp, so I am thinking of going that way too!

Michael Hatton
Senior Visual Effects Artist
Command Post Toybox

1972 SIII 88"

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Jeff Berg wrote:

> >No No! Sorenson bad! Opensource good!  I use Linux and there isnt a sorenson
> >decoder out there yet.
>
> Sorenson is not bad. It will produce a samller, cleaner looking and
> smoother running file. However, if you want to maximize your audience
> to include the Linux/Unix geeks, you should compromise quality for
> compatibility--Cinepac is usually the best of the alternatives. (I
> hope you're running a reasonably fast machine to do the compression.)
>
> Another key to getting good compression is to start with the best
> quality tapes you can and use a quality source deck for digital
> capture. The notion that the transfer to digital is "lossless" isn't
> really true. Since most compression schemes work using some sort of
> principle that looks for "deltas"--changes in pixels from
> frame-to-frame--that big 'ol white flash-o-dropout is going to
> increse your filesize significantly. The same goes for any noise in
> the signal. Noise does not like to be compressed. I'm sure there's
> only so much you can do with your source tapes in your home "studio"
> but you might want to consider this when making edit decisions
> regarding your final product. (i.e. "Gee, if I cut away from this
> shot two seconds earlier, I avoid that big chunk of noise...")
>
> As for format, I have certain bias towards Quicktime.
>
> And for the record, I defer to Bill Adams in all things technical in
> this market. I've been away from video for the past couple of
> years--though it looks like I'll be back to it shortly. Bill's been
> living and breathing it.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> ==
>   Jeffrey A. Berg
>   •  Apple Solutions Expert/Consultant
>   Rowayton, CT
> 203.855.7764  [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:40:52 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

>  As Jeff said at Moose Trophy "the only ones buying those are rental 
>companies".

Did I say that? Anyhow, I seem to see a bunch of old dudes driving 
them around these days too. Must be giving a big AARP discount.

jeff
- -- 
==                                                                   
  Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT        
                     [email-masked]
                      ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life, 
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:42:29 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:14:33 -0400
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

>I wouldn't DREAM of walking onto this list and telling you guys about
your series trucks, but I don't have ANY hesitation in telling you that as a
whole, it seems you guys are GROSSLY misinformed about what is available for
coil sprung trucks, and you really don't seem to have any idea of what they
can do when the playing field is made even.

Of course, you are making the assumption that those of us with leaf-sprung 
Series Land Rover CARE about coil-sprung Land Rovers....:-)  I suspect 
most of us with leaf springs are very much aware of what you can do to 
change the characteristics of a coil-sprung vehicle.  Range Rover sort of 
paved the way for the use of coil springs on 4wds back in 1969 (yes, I know 
there were earlier examples).  Since then, most 4wd manufacturers have 
jumped on the coil spring bandwagon.  Some of us have both leaf sprung and coil 
sprung vehicles, and while we may not be interested in modifying the coiler, 
you can't pick up a magazine or a catalog today without being inundated by 
all the things you can do to Jeeps, Defenders, etc., etc. etc.  I, for example, 
am aware there are all sorts of modifications, bolt-on accessories, etc, designed 
for coil-spring 4wds.  So I'm not misinformed, I'm just not interested.  There's a 
big difference.  If I wanted to discuss coil sprung Land Rovers, I'd go over to the 
coil spring list.

As to what coilers can do, I've driven both under off road conditions, and I'd say that 
both coil springs and leaf springs have their advantages and disadvantages.  Both 
can do extremely well off-road.  On-road, under today's driving conditions, coil 
springs are better than leaf springs.  This does not mean that leaf sprung vehicles 
are worthless or undriveable, just different.

But don't' imply that because we drive one type of vehicle we know nothing about 
the other type.  In large part, we probably simply don't care about the other type.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:44:47 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:18:45 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly vibration free 
engine design is a straight six... To do with the period the cylinders 
reciprocate at.

I've heard this many times, too. The only thing smoother than a straight six 
is a V-12.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:46:30 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:44:31 +0100
From: Ian Stuart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

On Friday 29 June 2001 09:18, you wrote:
>>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly
> vibration free engine design is a straight six... To do with the
> period the cylinders reciprocate at.

>I've been told that (Land )Rover used to boast that you could stand a 
coin on it's side on a running 2.6 engine - and it would stay there...

Possibly true with a wide-side pound coin......:-)
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:52:42 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: List trigger

I'm curious... does anyone know what triggers a LRO digest to 
be sent out?  Is it volume of material only.  Sometimes a day will 
go by with no or maybe one list, while others have three or four.  I 
noticed that one just came in within a few minutes of another one, and the 
second one contained the long list of galvanizers in the US.  This makes 
me suspect that the "send" trigger is based simply on the volume of 
submissions.  Just wondering.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 01 10:05:07 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Galvanizers in North America 

>ps- they are from the galvanizeit.org site

Strange,  They missed  the galvanizing shop in Santa Clara, California

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:06:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Faure, Marin wrote:

:Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:18:45 +0100
:From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
:Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe
:
:>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly vibration free
:engine design is a straight six... To do with the period the cylinders
:reciprocate at.
:
:I've heard this many times, too. The only thing smoother than a straight six
:is a V-12.

Fans of non-reciprocating engines, like Wankels and gas turbines, laugh at
statements like that, of course.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:13:00 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Farm gate clearance

Someone suggested the Land Rover was sized deliberately to 
fit through the farm gates in the UK.  I suspect this was not actually 
a consideration.  The Land Rover was sized to be the same as the 
Jeep it was based on, as well as the average width of other vehicles 
of that day.  Vehicles on the whole were smaller and narrower 
in the 1940s than they are today.  It had nothing to do with gate 
clearances, it was just the way vehicles evolved.

I don't think farm gates placed any specific restrictions 
on the design of the Land Rover if for no other reason than vehicles of 
all sorts had been driven successfully through farm gates for decades 
prior to the appearance of the Land Rover.  Just watch an episode or 
two of "All Creatures Great and Small" and you will observe period vehicles 
of every ilk, from saloon cars to knacker's lorries, negotiating 
centuries-old farm gates with no problems.  I've driven Defenders and 
Discoveries through farm gates in the Yorkshire Dales, the Lake District, 
and the Highlands on many occasions.  While the gates themselves were 
generally less than 20 years old, the gaps in the stone walls had been unchanged for 
ages.  In virtually every case, there was plenty of clearance, even for our 
Defender 130 Crew Cab.  

There is a lot of farm equipment that's much wider than 
a Land Rover, and there has been since before the Land Rover was conceived.  
So I think trying to insert "farm gate clearance" into the already-distorted history 
of Land Rover (in the US thanks in large part to Land Rover North America), 
is not a good idea.  I have never seen any reference to gate width as a design 
criteria in any of the Land Rover history books and writeups I have, most of 
which are fairly old and so were written much closer to reality than a recent work 
which may elevate rumor to fact.  I have seen quotes from the Land Rover's developers 
in which they outlined what they wanted to do with the design.  Nobody said anything 
about making it through farm gates.  They didn't have to, as all the comparable sized 
vehicles, including the Jeep they were copying, already made it through farm gates 
just fine.  There are already enough bogus beliefs and theories floating around about 
the Land Rover.  Let's not add another one.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:27:53 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

Does anyone know what a good running 80,000 mile 2.6 Land Rover Straight
Six engine is worth. It is out of the vehicle.
Thnaks.
Mark Pilkington

8 Landrovers

"Faure, Marin" wrote:

> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:44:31 +0100
> From: Ian Stuart <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe
>
> On Friday 29 June 2001 09:18, you wrote:
> >>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly
> > vibration free engine design is a straight six... To do with the
> > period the cylinders reciprocate at.
>
> >I've been told that (Land )Rover used to boast that you could stand a
> coin on it's side on a running 2.6 engine - and it would stay there...
>
> Possibly true with a wide-side pound coin......:-)
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:56:29 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

>
> >out here, that is a training wheel.  37/38 is the norm for many i run
with,
> >i'll probably go 35's on a landy
>
> THen you may have some minor cleearence peoblems to resolve.

I put in a 2" lift and modified the stock springs to provide more
articulation.  I have 11.5" of travel in the rear and 8" in the front.  I am
running 33x12.50r15 mounted on Stockton Wheels 15x9's with 0 offset.  My
rear tires are hitting the inner wheel wheel and the top of the wheel well
in the rear at full stuff.  I need to lower the bump stops about another
inch.  The fronts are fine.
If you are going to go with coils you will definately have more flex then I
do.  Using Scout axles would be pretty good idea if you dont mind making the
vehicle wider.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:58:02 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

> I've been told that (Land )Rover used to boast that you could stand a 
> coin on it's side on a running 2.6 engine - and it would stay there...
> 

Don't know about that, but have seen it done on a Packard straight 8.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:55:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: the new guy war

 	I agree with Bill.  Lighten up and don't hassle a guy becuase he's   
thinking out loud of doing something different with a series rig than   
anyone else may have considered.  Perhaps he'll find a way of doing it in   
a way not previously thought up.

	As to the beef about leafers knowing nothing of coilers, that's   
certainly true as to me.  In general, all of us would do well to keep the   
BS sifters on a fairly fine setting regardless of topic becuase there is   
a lot of BS generated when folks are sitting in front of a computer   
writing about topics they may have no first hand knowledge of, or may   
have dealt with only once,   so many months or years ago.  I was told I   
could rebuild a koenig winch for just a few hundred dollars  (by the ^%*^   
that sold the broken, rusty rotten thing to me), and while I didn't   
believe the guy for a second, I've spent many more dollars than that   
actually doing the job.  He clearly had no idea of what is actually   
involved, was embellishing or lying.  You don't know with a capital k,   
 the answer to a question unless you've had your hands dirty on the same   
subject, and even then, each rover and rover component, and problem with   
a component may be different.  Throw into the mix poor recollections,   
embellishment, BS and outright lying (a potential if money is changing   
hands), and you have very good reason to consider the source and beware   
of BS.

	But all of this is no reason to be rude to a new person interested in   
series rigs.   Especially someone into Scouts.
Simon  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:12:37 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover video

>compatibility--Cinepac is usually the best of the alternatives. (I
> hope you're running a reasonably fast machine to do the
> compression.)

Currently doing the editing on a 1g chip with 756m memory.
I built up one clip that took 10 hours to 'compile'.

> regarding your final product. (i.e. "Gee, if I cut away from this
> shot two seconds earlier, I avoid that big chunk of noise...")

I know what audio noise is, are you talking about that or video noise?  If
VN, what exactly is it?
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:15:02 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

> Mark Pilkington
> 1990 Range Rover
> 1967 SWB with V8
> 1956 Series I
> 1973 Series III SWB
> 1972 Series II LWB Safari
> 1962 Dormobile
> 1972 Dormobile
> 1972 109 Series III Camper
> 
Show off.  hahaha
Pete www.aloharovers.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:15:15 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

Perhaps the thick build up of oil and other greasy deposits would hold the coil on its side...

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 01:58PM >>>
> I've been told that (Land )Rover used to boast that you could stand a 
> coin on it's side on a running 2.6 engine - and it would stay there...
> 

Don't know about that, but have seen it done on a Packard straight 8.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:24:38 -0400
From: Perrone Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

<html><head></head><body>Marin,<br>
<br>
 &nbsp;&nbsp; While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the list,
it pains me that your statements ring true.&nbsp; I know many leafers don't care
about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes.&nbsp; It seeps into
the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
planning events between the two groups.&nbsp; Those of us who own coil-sprung
rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks
and learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.&nbsp; It seems that in
large part, the series guys would rather pretend that we don't exist or we
are not "real" land rover enthusiasts.&nbsp; I don't know if its envy, disdain,
or elitism, but it really is distateful.&nbsp; I'd stop in a heartbeat to help
any motorist, but with some of the attitudes on this list toward coil sprung
rovers and their owners, I don't know why I would bother to stop for a series.<br>
<br>
Maybe thats why coil sprung guys don't wave more to you guys.<br>
<br>
- -P<br>
<br>
<br>
Faure, Marin wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email-masked]"><pre wrap="">Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:14:33 -0400<br>From: "Perrone Ford" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email-masked]">&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</a><br>Subject: RE: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe<br><br></pre>
  <blockquote type="cite"><pre wrap="">I wouldn't DREAM of walking onto this list and telling you guys about<br></pre></blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!---->your series trucks, but I don't have ANY hesitation in telling you that as a<br>whole, it seems you guys are GROSSLY misinformed about what is available for<br>coil sprung trucks, and you really don't seem to have any idea of what they<br>can do when the playing field is made even.<br><br>Of course, you are making the assumption that those of us with leaf-sprung <br>Series Land Rover CARE about coil-sprung Land Rovers....:-)  I suspect </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
</body></html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:21:16 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: the new guy war

Thanks for saying that.  Bravo.

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 01:55PM >>>
 	I agree with Bill.  Lighten up and don't hassle a guy becuase he's   
thinking out loud of doing something different with a series rig than   
anyone else may have considered.  Perhaps he'll find a way of doing it in   
a way not previously thought up.

	As to the beef about leafers knowing nothing of coilers, that's   
certainly true as to me.  In general, all of us would do well to keep the   
BS sifters on a fairly fine setting regardless of topic becuase there is   
a lot of BS generated when folks are sitting in front of a computer   
writing about topics they may have no first hand knowledge of, or may   
have dealt with only once,   so many months or years ago.  I was told I   
could rebuild a koenig winch for just a few hundred dollars  (by the ^%*^   
that sold the broken, rusty rotten thing to me), and while I didn't   
believe the guy for a second, I've spent many more dollars than that   
actually doing the job.  He clearly had no idea of what is actually   
involved, was embellishing or lying.  You don't know with a capital k,   
 the answer to a question unless you've had your hands dirty on the same   
subject, and even then, each rover and rover component, and problem with   
a component may be different.  Throw into the mix poor recollections,   
embellishment, BS and outright lying (a potential if money is changing   
hands), and you have very good reason to consider the source and beware   
of BS.

	But all of this is no reason to be rude to a new person interested in   
series rigs.   Especially someone into Scouts.
Simon  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:25:32 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

Err, that's be coiN.  All these stupid posts about coilers and leafers has got me all flustered....  ;>

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 02:15PM >>>
Perhaps the thick build up of oil and other greasy deposits would hold the coil on its side...

>>> [email-masked] 06/29/01 01:58PM >>>
> I've been told that (Land )Rover used to boast that you could stand a 
> coin on it's side on a running 2.6 engine - and it would stay there...
> 

Don't know about that, but have seen it done on a Packard straight 8.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:01:31 -0700
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: off topic - fishing

- --============_-1218281201==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>anyone in British Columbia want to volunteer to give a friend info on the
>trout fishing out there? mail me direct.

Hi Frank,

Not a fisherman myself and am only married to a BC native but from my 
Land Rover travels in the province, it seems to me you'd have to be 
pretty creative in order to avoid good places to fish for trout.  The 
man you should contact is Clinton Coates; he's a native, seriously 
Land Rover afflicted,  spends a good deal of his time wandering about 
remote parts of BC digging up stuff, and he's a terrific guy.  I 
don't know if he fishes, but that malady seems to ravage the 
population pretty thoroughly.  He'll probably know what you want to 
know.

Guess what Frank, you won't be reduced to consuming the output of 
Busch Gardens or any of that other Budweiser-like  pseudo beer while 
in BC.  They have a nice assortment of good stuff that is nearly as 
good as the mass-produced brews in the UK.  Better than that however, 
if you're at the southern edge, within a few hundred miles of the US, 
you will probably be able to find some pretty terrific beers from 
micro-breweries.  They're not on par with your 'Real Ales' but 
they're pretty nice, I'd say nearly equal to stuff from someplace 
like Adnams in Southwold.

BTW BC is a really huge place, it's hard to appreciate until you've driven it.

I'm copying Clinton on this email but here's his address: [email-masked]

When are you going?

Remember your mosquito repellant.  The BC air force makes the gnats 
and midges in the Scottish Highlands seem like butterflies caressing 
your extremities. July seems to be their peak season.  After all, the 
trout have to eat something.

Gerry Mugele
*** "It's not on any map - true places never are."  -- Mark Twain

- --============_-1218281201==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

<excerpt>anyone in British Columbia want to volunteer to give a friend
info on the

trout fishing out there? mail me direct.

</excerpt>

Hi Frank,

Not a fisherman myself and am only married to a BC native but from my
Land Rover travels in the province, it seems to me you'd have to be
pretty creative in order to avoid good places to fish for trout.  The
man you should contact is Clinton Coates; he's a native, seriously Land
Rover afflicted,  spends a good deal of his time wandering about remote
parts of BC digging up stuff, and he's a terrific guy.  I don't know if
he fishes, but that malady seems to ravage the population pretty
thoroughly.  He'll probably know what you want to know. 

Guess what Frank, you won't be reduced to consuming the output of Busch
Gardens or any of that other Budweiser-like  pseudo beer while in BC. 
They have a nice assortment of good stuff that is nearly as good as the
mass-produced brews in the UK.  Better than that however, if you're at
the southern edge, within a few hundred miles of the US, you will
probably be able to find some pretty terrific beers from
micro-breweries.  They're not on par with your 'Real Ales' but they're
pretty nice, I'd say nearly equal to stuff from someplace like Adnams
in Southwold.

BTW BC is a really huge place, it's hard to appreciate until you've
driven it.

I'm copying Clinton on this email but here's his address:
[email-masked]

When are you going? 

Remember your mosquito repellant.  The BC air force makes the gnats and
midges in the Scottish Highlands seem like butterflies caressing your
extremities. July seems to be their peak season.  After all, the trout
have to eat something.

Gerry Mugele

*** <fontfamily><param>Palatino</param><smaller>"It's not on any map -
true places never are."  -- Mark Twain  
</smaller></fontfamily>

- --============_-1218281201==_ma============--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:05:49 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

It's True....:-) I love them all. They will be here in two weeks. (The
67 V8 and RR are here, the others will be for sale)

Hope Peter wrote:

> > Mark Pilkington
> > 1990 Range Rover
> > 1967 SWB with V8
> > 1956 Series I
> > 1973 Series III SWB
> > 1972 Series II LWB Safari
> > 1962 Dormobile
> > 1972 Dormobile
> > 1972 109 Series III Camper
> >
> Show off.  hahaha
> Pete www.aloharovers.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:09:55 -0700
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: off topic - fishing

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>
>Oh it's horrible. Yup, the fishing is WAY better on the East coast. 
>Especially in Nova Scotia. Yeah you should definitely go fishing in 
>Nova Scotia before you go out west ;-)
>

Really?  When I was trying to the the D90 really muddy I met bunches 
of Newfies trout fishing in northern BC.

Is there something wrong with the trout where they come from but not 
on your island?  ;-D

G. Mugele
*** "It's not on any map - true places never are."  -- Mark Twain

- --============_-1218280698==_ma============
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<excerpt>

Oh it's horrible. Yup, the fishing is WAY better on the East coast.
Especially in Nova Scotia. Yeah you should definitely go fishing in
Nova Scotia before you go out west ;-)

</excerpt>

Really?  When I was trying to the the D90 really muddy I met bunches of
Newfies trout fishing in northern BC.  

Is there something wrong with the trout where they come from but not on
your island?  ;-D

G. Mugele

*** <fontfamily><param>Palatino</param><smaller>"It's not on any map -
true places never are."  -- Mark Twain 
</smaller></fontfamily>

- --============_-1218280698==_ma============--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:17:28 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Driving Land Rovers

I have 6 Land Rovers coming into Port Heuneme near Santa Barbara on the
9th of July.  I can collect them on the 12th. It is a thursday. I have
enough drivers, but two of them might drop out at short notice. Is
anyone available to step in and drive one at short notice?  The plan is
as follows. We would leave Placerville in Northern California on July
12th in a small plane or two and fly to Oxnard Airport. Oxnard is two
hours flight and is 1 mile from the port. I would hope to arrive at
about 9,00am.  The port is open at 8,00am. There will be an hour of
paperwork and me paying huge amounts of shipping money and we can leave.
It is 450 miles back here, which is 8 or 9 hours at 50 mph.  The 56
Series I will be the slowest and we would all have to stick together so
it will be a slow hot run up California.  It will take all day.  I will
of course be filling them all with gas and the drivers with food and
soda. If anyone is available as a stand in if plan "A" fails, I would be
very grateful.  I do not want to have to do it in two runs.  They are
all very good condition, clean straght machines, so I do not envisage
any breakdowns.  It will look like the UN has landed!!  We can run up
some Union Jacks and drink a lot of tea and frighten the locals!
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Mark Pilkington

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:37:57 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: List trigger

Used to just be one a day regardless. It's been bounced around a bit 
though so it may well be a volume-based setting (which is very common 
for lists) now. I'll ask Bill next time I speak with him.

jeff

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO:  Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

>
>    While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the list,
it pains me that your statements ring true.  I know many leafers don't care
about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes.  It seeps into
the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
planning events between the two groups.  Those of us who own coil-sprung
rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks and
learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.

Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that fall
into this description.
A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and chat
with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get togethers.
Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them.  I am not
talking about the station wagon soccer moms either.  If it's a stock
looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more.  I am
talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, racks
etc.    Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
pineapple fields or to Keana Pt.  Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield.  Tell them about the knee
deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time I
had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face like
we are talking about going to mars.  These people have the pushbars so they
dont scratch their fenders in parking lots.  They thought that those three
white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ on
their vehicle.  Don't really use the lights, because that would mean getting
ut of the vehicle to remove the covers.  The roof rack is to put the beach
chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle.  The tires, well it's a
truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck.  The three Defender guys I
have met on Island bought the "image".  They have money and want everyone to
know.  Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3.  You know, the people who
think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle used
by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII.  Had one guy go into this
long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land Rover
for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
never sold to the general public.  Other oil companies, logging companies,
mines, etc were the only one that got them.

I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I know
that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but it
does describe the majority of coil owners.  It has been mentioned on this
list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a market for
a true utility type 4x4.  I hope they do, but you know what, I think the
market is very, very, very small.  Ford bought a Name.  If the Defender line
continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody design
vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all the
electric gadgets you can imagine.  Some people believe that this elctrickery
makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list about
this.  People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many vehicles
towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car that
had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out.  If you are looking
for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then buy a
brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years.  But dont try and tell me
that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would have
been when it was 10 years old.  And if you believe that a coiler is more
reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison.  I will wager a months
pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all the
money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle then
the person that buys a Disco II.

I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad.  I would love to get a
1975 2 door rangie.  Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for webers,
but I would be happy with the rest of the package.  For my next project I
want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top.  Diesel engine and auto tranny.
Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance.  I can't
wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and see
how they have built their rigs.  From the photos I have seen and the people
I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an apprentice
for a while.  To me the Rover is a big lego set.  I like the looks.  I like
working on them.  I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks.  I love that
I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
still laugh at that one.  I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
gearing.  Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" the
88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me.  I do cringe at
times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there are
people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle.  But
I am happy with it.  The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable is
to change the shape of the rear wheel wells.  If I ever got rid of the
thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a stock
series again.  Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 33's
and a v-8 in a Series rig?  he was run off pretty quick.  Think some are
trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out discussing
my plans I would have been run off also.  BTW I found this list sometime in
mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move to
Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here.  Other then asking questions,
I stayed pretty quiete for another year.  I saw alot of how the
non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
Well that is enough for now I am sure,
Pete

------------------------------

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