Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #426

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:46:50 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, June 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 426

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:43:51 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: MArks list-o-Rovers

> It's True....:-) I love them all. They will be here in two weeks. (The
> 67 V8 and RR are here, the others will be for sale)
> 
Here, where is here?  And they will be here from where?
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:07:29 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Video Noise & Compression [OT](was Re: LRO: Land Rover video)

>I know what audio noise is, are you talking about that or video noise?  If
>VN, what exactly is it?

I was talking about video noise and it's really the same thing as 
audio noise. The most basic definition of video noise could probably 
be stated as any visual artifact that isn't part of the "real" video 
information. White flashes--or dropout, degradation of the signal 
through generation loss, age/wear on the tape stock or problems 
introduced by faulty time base (hence the use of TBC's or time base 
correctors in professional edit suites) can all cause noise of one 
sort or another.

The problem is that noise, being somewhat random by nature, is 
impossible to compress. All compression schemes are based on the 
notion that in any given series of video frames, many (most?) of the 
pixels don't change. A red land-rover driving across the frame 
against a "fixed" background is an example. So instead of storing all 
of the information for frame one, frame two... thru frame five 
million, four-hundred thousand and fifty-two the file just stores the 
information for the first frame and then stores the changes (or 
deltas) for the next series of frames. So our theoretical Red Land 
rover driving across the frame will compress better then a tracking 
shot that follows the red rover as it moves along the background. 
(Assuming that is that the red rover isn't dominating the frame...) I 
hope you get the idea.

Every so often a complete or "key" frame is stored. Some compression 
schemes are very smart about when to do this. If the delta number 
exceeds a certain level, store the entire frame instead. An example 
of a new key frame might be a sudden cut from a dark shot of rovers 
at night to one of the group wheeling the next morning. As there is 
no relationship (from a visual perspective) between the two frames. 
Visually similar frames compress well, visually diverse frames do not.

The problem with noise is that it introduces random patterns into the 
frame that disrupt the frame-to-frame continuity. This increases the 
number of deltas that need to be stored and may even cause each frame 
(in a particularly noisey sequence) to be stored in it's entirety. 
Result: Big files and "jerky" playback on slower machines.

For the more technically minded, there is a much "cleaner" definition 
of compression in A. Michael Noll's book "Introduction to 
Telecommunication Electronics, Second Edition pp340-341, Artech House 
Publishers. (Disclaimer: I helped Dr. Noll with certain sections of 
the second edition of the book and am credited in the preface.) 
However, after reading it I think my "plain language" version might 
be more accessible--if more wordy--to the majority of the group.

Sorry to those who got this far and are waiting for the Rover content...

jeff
- -- 
Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT        
                     [email-masked]
                      ==================
	I believe in heavy thinking, I believe in heavy sound,
	I believe in heavy images, To hold it all down.
				--Chris Smither, Happier Blue

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:10:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: 95 rangie and on...

the 95 range rovers are selling under 20k now.
i had a 87 classic and liked it.  i have
2 series (so i am posting to the leaf list cause
i want mechanical-type advise).  anyway, could
i be happy with the new body-style rangie...

like (for example) does the spring replacement for
the air-bag suspension work on this model, too.

other things like that...

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:25:38 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Video Noise & Compression [OT](was Re: LRO: Land Rover video)

Forgot one thing--for a good example of video noise, rent one of the 
older tapes at your local video store. You'll be able to see the 
breakdown.

jab

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:24:46 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

>Maybe thats why coil sprung guys don't wave more to you guys.

Actually Perrone, at least in my experience, the "attitude" is mostly 
directed at Series owners by coilers. We may not be particularly 
interested in their latest modifications, but we're by-and-large a 
"live and let live" group. Can't tell you the number of times on runs 
I've been faced with comments like "That (stock) Series Rover is 
stuck and holding us up but my (locked, raised, Super Swamper'd) 
Disco got right through. Those guys shouldn't come out on these runs 
if they don't know how to drive." That's annoying comment from 
someone who's "skills" have been bought--not learned. (And it's not 
universal--there are many owners of modified coilers that can drive 
rings around me, they're just usually not the ones making stupid, 
inflammatory, comments.)

Funny thing, when the coiler breaks down on the trail, seems as if 
it's the Series guys who pull out tool boxes and start wrenching. Or 
if a vehicle is stuck and, for some reason, winching isn't the 
answer...who usually figures it out?

Some of my best friends (in fact my very best friend) are coilers, 
and I do hate to generalize. But the best coilers, and I think you 
might even be in this category, are Series guys at heart--they just 
drive a newer truck for a variety of reasons. I may be building a 
coil rig myself--and asking a few questions of my friends here. I 
hate to think that I'll be shunned if I choose to do so.

I also had to chuckle at your comment about newer trucks "idleing" 
through obstacles because in my experience, unless we're dealing with 
extreme climbs, it's the Series drivers who idle and finess their way 
through--the Coilers use gobs of wellie and brute force. Not saying 
either is necessarily wrong--just an observation.

I have no problems with the occasional coil question (or even 
slightly relevant "Scout" question) being addressed on the list. 
(Particularly since I just wrote a tome on video compression.) If the 
discussion gets too long (as this one is approaching--but not for the 
original reason) it should be taken offline. And yes, a new comer 
posing the question should probably be politely informed that there 
may be better resources.

For the record, I think Scouts are very cool rigs. I also like old 
Cruisers and original Broncos and Power Wagons. If I wanted to do 
more offroading on a regular basis I'd probably get a Jeep as there 
seem to be active clubs all around.  As a rule I'd define them all as 
vehicles being driven by folks very similar to ourselves--just a 
different choice in how they manifest their interest.

jeff
- -- 
==                                                                   
  Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT        
                     [email-masked]
                      ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life, 
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:17:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: starter dog removal

What size socket will I need to remove my crank start dog?  Finally have   
all my driveline parts together for my Koenig and hoped to connect it   
this weekend and run the cable onto it.  Hoped to get this info so I can   
get a socket tonight before going home.  Please mail me direct.  Thanks
Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 04:20:42 -0400
From: "James G.Wolf" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: true oh so true

For all Scout jockeys who really want a series  Land-Rover 8^).

> > > Subject: How to view life
> > >
> > >
> > > A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in
> front of him. When the class began, wordlessly he picked up a large empty
> mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with rocks, rocks about 2" in
> diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that
> it was.  So the professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them
> into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles, of course, rolled
> into the open areas between the rocks. He then asked the students again if
> the jar was full. They agreed it was. The professor picked up a box of
> sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything
> else.  "Now," said the professor, "I want you to recognize that this is
> your life. The rocks are the important things - your family, your partner,
> your health, your children - things that if everything else was lost and
> only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the
> other things that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is
> everything else. The small stuff."  "If you put the sand into the jar
> first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks. The same goes for
> your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you
> will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay
> attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with
> your children. Take time to get medical checkups.  Take your partner out
> dancing. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house, give a
> dinner party and fix the disposal."   "Take care of the rocks first - the
> things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."  
> 
> But then... A student took the jar which the other students and the
> professor agreed was full, and proceeded to pour in a glass of beer. Of
> course the beer filled the remaining spaces within the jar making the jar
> truly full. The moral of this tale is: That no matter how full your life
> is, there is always room for BEER.

Jim Wolf

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 2001 13:32:05 -0700
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

On Fri, 29 June 2001, "Hope Peter" wrote:

>Using Scout axles would be pretty good >idea if you dont mind making the
>vehicle wider.
>Pete

Does anyone know if the Scout axles ever included Dana 44's?  I followed a very nicely prepped late model IH Scout (77-78?) into work today, and I thought the diff looked Dana-ish.  The truck had revolver shackles and was easily running on 35's or taller.  The scouts are very popular where I live, and you hardly ever see a stock one.  They are relatively cheap used so if you boff the truck off road, you can buy a couple of spares trucks for what we put into say ...........a Land Rover transmission.

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:52:54 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Driving Land Rovers

oh my god what fun!

adam

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 04:47:59 -0400
From: "James G.Wolf" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: new scout guy

>There seems to be a recipe for those wanting to off-road in a Toyota or an 
>American truck. Big tires, spring-over, etc. None of these mods seem very 
>popular with the LR crowd. I think Bill is right that you may be surprised 
>if you get one and leave it stock for a while. You will want to modify it 
>I'm sure but I think you may find that you will choose to take a different 
>route than you had planned.

very well said, always get a stock vehicle and drive it until you can make an
informed decision on the mods you want/need.

We have a Toyota LC in Portsmouth, only thing is it has BIG magnetic ovals
on it
that say LAND-ROVER!!!! Talk about a wanna-be.
Jim Wolf

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:56:26 -0700
From: Jeff Bieler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

This whole thread is pretty funny.

Coilers are _____.  Series owners are _______.

No one has a monopoly on a**holes.  I know more then a few drivers in
both categories.  I know guys in RR Classics and Discoveries that are
really nice guys who will do anything to help beginners (or stranded
veterans) and whose trail knowledge is amazing.  I know Series owners
who won't share the time of day and who you couldn't pay me to off road
with.  I also know that the opposite is true.  Heck, I even know J**P
owners who are good guys.

Someone once told me that the trail is the ocean and the truck is the
vessel.  Worship the ocean, not the vessel.  It's a bit "zen" for me,
but while I agree that it's fun to be part of a community of like
trucks, the make and model of your truck certainly doesn't change the
quality of the guy behind the steering wheel.

Pretty broad brush strokes being painted by a Parrot Head.

Jeff Bieler

Jeff Berg wrote:

> >Maybe thats why coil sprung guys don't wave more to you guys.
>
> Actually Perrone, at least in my experience, the "attitude" is mostly
> directed at Series owners by coilers. We may not be particularly
> interested in their latest modifications, but we're by-and-large a
> "live and let live" group. Can't tell you the number of times on runs
> I've been faced with comments like "That (stock) Series Rover is
> stuck and holding us up but my (locked, raised, Super Swamper'd)
> Disco got right through. Those guys shouldn't come out on these runs
> if they don't know how to drive." That's annoying comment from
> someone who's "skills" have been bought--not learned. (And it's not
> universal--there are many owners of modified coilers that can drive
> rings around me, they're just usually not the ones making stupid,
> inflammatory, comments.)
>
> Funny thing, when the coiler breaks down on the trail, seems as if
> it's the Series guys who pull out tool boxes and start wrenching. Or
> if a vehicle is stuck and, for some reason, winching isn't the
> answer...who usually figures it out?
>
> Some of my best friends (in fact my very best friend) are coilers,
> and I do hate to generalize. But the best coilers, and I think you
> might even be in this category, are Series guys at heart--they just
> drive a newer truck for a variety of reasons. I may be building a
> coil rig myself--and asking a few questions of my friends here. I
> hate to think that I'll be shunned if I choose to do so.
>
> I also had to chuckle at your comment about newer trucks "idleing"
> through obstacles because in my experience, unless we're dealing with
> extreme climbs, it's the Series drivers who idle and finess their way
> through--the Coilers use gobs of wellie and brute force. Not saying
> either is necessarily wrong--just an observation.
>
> I have no problems with the occasional coil question (or even
> slightly relevant "Scout" question) being addressed on the list.
> (Particularly since I just wrote a tome on video compression.) If the
> discussion gets too long (as this one is approaching--but not for the
> original reason) it should be taken offline. And yes, a new comer
> posing the question should probably be politely informed that there
> may be better resources.
>
> For the record, I think Scouts are very cool rigs. I also like old
> Cruisers and original Broncos and Power Wagons. If I wanted to do
> more offroading on a regular basis I'd probably get a Jeep as there
> seem to be active clubs all around.  As a rule I'd define them all as
> vehicles being driven by folks very similar to ourselves--just a
> different choice in how they manifest their interest.
>
> jeff
> --
> ==
>   Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT
>                      [email-masked]
>                       ==================
>         My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
>         My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
>         Taste for the good life,
>         I can see it no other way.
>                 --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:03:26 -0400
From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Balanced

Steve Mace" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly vibration
free 
>engine design is a straight six... To do with the period the cylinders 
>reciprocate at.

That may very well be...the Rover P-5 engine (the 3.0 litre six) used to be
advertised as so smooth running that a 10 shilling piece (I think that was
the coin....) could be balanced on edge on a running engine....

Cheers

	*-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----*
	|                 A. P. "Sandy" Grice                  |
	|    The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd    |
	|     1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
	|     757-622-7054  (H)423-4898  (FAX)757-622-7056     |
	*------------------------------------------------------*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:00:35 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth that 
the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator.  I'm a big 
proponent of ground clearance though have found 32" tires get me where I 
want to go.  With all respect to Peter H. can't see anything wider than a 
9.5" tire on a 2 1/4 powered series truck.  Also can't imagine a taller tire 
than 33" on a series without widening the track.  You'd huli the truck on a 
20 degree sideslope with anything bigger.  Just because the mall poseurs 
take along ladders to climb into the cab, doesn't mean they really work off 
road.  More likely it's just a vain fashion statement to impress the chicks. 
  Peter H's comments against Defender owners also applies to the big tire 
American Iron crowd.  Of course, when you take your 143" wheelbase extended 
cab pickup, with custom pinstriping and graphics, offroad, you need 40" 
tires to get the same breakover angle as a Series on 31" tires.  With a 
wheel base that long you aren't going to get far off road, in any case.

As far as Joe, it sounds like he ought to strip the rusty body off his 
scout, buy a bulkhead, rear tub, fenders, and breakfast, adjust the Scout 
frame accordingly and graft the body onto the Scout Frame.  The only thing 
that will be left of the series is the look.  Why waste a good series doing 
this.  If all he wants is the looks, its easier and cheaper to do it with 
parts than butchering a whole truck.  Hell, if he wants to pay the shipping, 
I'll give him an 88 tub that is pre customized for rock work.  If he insists 
on Rover underpinnings, a coil frame and donations from a RR may get him 
what he wants.  Though that conversion may not be cheap.

Some modifications to a series make sense.  A more efficient, more powerful 
motor would be nice to have but not a big American V8 unless you're also 
going to swap in an appropriate transmission and axles.  Especially on a 
109, power steering would be nice, your going to be doing a lot of wheel 
twisting to get that long wheelbase, huge turning circle vehicle into even 
open spaces.  Of course, if you had 9.5" or narrower tires, power steering 
wouldn't be needed quite so much.  Only drastic modifications to the front 
suspension will get you a lot more articulation.  More cost effective to 
just install parabolics and put lockers all round.  Extending the spring 
mounts and putting on longer front springs and shock towers won't get you 
nearly as far as the above modification.  A way to get the road cruising 
speed up a little at a more comfortable rpm would be nice, especially if 
your running 100hp or so.  Going faster than 70mph on ANY off road capable 
truck is irresponsible and dangerous to the rest of us.  An offroad capable 
truck is physically unsuitable for highspeed on road work.  Yeah, you can 
put air springs and electronic suspension (sound familiar) to lower and 
stiffen the suspension for road work and then pump it up and give the wheel 
travel needed for off road work.  For most of us mortals, the combination of 
high CG for ground clearance and the reliability of springs and mechanical 
suspension means we have to drive prudently on the road.

Use a little common sense in how you want to modify your Series truck.  If 
you want a gonzo rock crawler, it ain't a series truck.  With a few  
judicious and cost effective changes, you can have a series truck that will 
get you almost anywhere that 4 wheels will go, however, and still have a 
vehicle that bears a close resemblance to the Series Truck that you started 
with.  Don't spend a lot of money on a paint job, if your going to USE your 
truck off road.  You WILL be customizing the body work.

Aloha
Peter O

>From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: LRO:  Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
>
> >
> >    While I respect you a lot as you bring a lot of experience to the 
>list,
>it pains me that your statements ring true.  I know many leafers don't care
>about coiler guys, and that permeates with your attitudes.  It seeps into
>the persona of off-road events, and generally makes for a difficult time
>planning events between the two groups.  Those of us who own coil-sprung
>rovers and actually are enthusiasts tend to appreciate the series trucks 
>and
>learn what we can about the heritage of our marque.
>
>
>Unfortunately for some of us leafers we don't meet many coilers that fall
>into this description.
>A couple of us Series guys on island have taken the time to stop and chat
>with coilers and invite them to participate on our trips and get togethers.
>Pretty much get treated like we are not good enough for them.  I am not
>talking about the station wagon soccer moms either.  If it's a stock
>looking, new, scratchless Rangie or Disco I don't bother any more.  I am
>talking about the guys/girls that have off road tires, bars, lights, racks
>etc.    Ask em to go off roading, they think you mean drive through the
>pineapple fields or to Keana Pt.  Tell em we mean Peacock Flats, the
>Kahuku's, or the training areas of Schoffield.  Tell them about the knee
>deep mud, how Kevin and I have both flooded our engines, about the time I
>had water up to my seat cushions and they get this look on their face like
>we are talking about going to mars.  These people have the pushbars so they
>dont scratch their fenders in parking lots.  They thought that those three
>white round disks on the front just let people know they spent more $$$ on
>their vehicle.  Don't really use the lights, because that would mean 
>getting
>ut of the vehicle to remove the covers.  The roof rack is to put the beach
>chairs on so you don't get sand in the vehicle.  The tires, well it's a
>truck, ya have to have truck tires ona truck.  The three Defender guys I
>have met on Island bought the "image".  They have money and want everyone 
>to
>know.  Oh they also have a Benz and a BMW Z-3.  You know, the people who
>think Series means new Disco, or the "early Defender", or the vehicle used
>by the Desert Rats in North Africa during WWII.  Had one guy go into this
>long explanation about how the Range Rover company designed the Land Rover
>for a British oil company in the 50's for oil exploration and they were
>never sold to the general public.  Other oil companies, logging companies,
>mines, etc were the only one that got them.
>
>I have met some of the people from this list that own coilers and I know
>that my above rant is not a blanket statement against all coilers, but it
>does describe the majority of coil owners.  It has been mentioned on this
>list in the past that hopefully Ford realises that there exists a market 
>for
>a true utility type 4x4.  I hope they do, but you know what, I think the
>market is very, very, very small.  Ford bought a Name.  If the Defender 
>line
>continues, in less then 10 years it will be an aerodynamic, unibody design
>vehicle with crumple zones, molded plastic bumpers, airbags, and all the
>electric gadgets you can imagine.  Some people believe that this 
>elctrickery
>makes the vehicle more reliable, recent dsicussion on the Mendo list about
>this.  People didn't believe me when I claimed to have had many vehicles
>towed into our shop for sensor related failures, including one GM car that
>had it's brakes lock up when the ABS system went out.  If you are looking
>for something that doesn't require much in the way of maintance, then buy a
>brand new vehicle and swap it out every 3-4 years.  But dont try and tell 
>me
>that a 10 yo EFI vehicle is more reliable then a Series vehicle would have
>been when it was 10 years old.  And if you believe that a coiler is more
>reliable then a leafer how about a $for$ comparison.  I will wager a months
>pay that if two people both had the same budget, the one that puts all the
>money into new parts for a Series rig will have a more relaible vehicle 
>then
>the person that buys a Disco II.
>
>I am not saying that coil sprung vehicle are bad.  I would love to get a
>1975 2 door rangie.  Maybe swap out the duel SU/Stromberg carbs for webers,
>but I would be happy with the rest of the package.  For my next project I
>want to build a coil 109 with a dormie top.  Diesel engine and auto tranny.
>Hope Joe does build his Series so I can learn from his experiance.  I can't
>wait to get to the PacNorWest and meet some of the people up there and see
>how they have built their rigs.  From the photos I have seen and the people
>I have talked to, hope I can talk Timm Cooper into letting me an apprentice
>for a while.  To me the Rover is a big lego set.  I like the looks.  I like
>working on them.  I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks.  I love that
>I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay, I
>still laugh at that one.  I like the small 4 cyl in the 88 and the low
>gearing.  Yes I drive in more mud then rock crawling and I "rednecked" the
>88 by putting 33's on it, but they are working great for me.  I do cringe 
>at
>times when I think about what I have done to my vehicle and know there are
>people out there that probably think I have truely ruined the vehicle.  But
>I am happy with it.  The only thing I have done that isn non-reversable is
>to change the shape of the rear wheel wells.  If I ever got rid of the
>thing, someone could get a stock chassis and springs it it would be a stock
>series again.  Show of hands, who remembers the kid that wanted to put 33's
>and a v-8 in a Series rig?  he was run off pretty quick.  Think some are
>trying the same with Joe, and am sure that if I had started out discussing
>my plans I would have been run off also.  BTW I found this list sometime in
>mid 97, but never posted until May 98 when I found out about the move to
>Hawaii, and asked about Rovers for sale here.  Other then asking questions,
>I stayed pretty quiete for another year.  I saw alot of how the
>non-traditionalist were treated and didn't want any part of it.
>Well that is enough for now I am sure,
>Pete
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:04:45 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

after a certain point in their manufacture they came with front and rear dana 
44s, beofre that the front was a dana 30 or 35, cant remember.  Joe?

adam

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:17:42 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

>after a certain point in their manufacture they came with front and rear dana
>44s, beofre that the front was a dana 30 or 35, cant remember.  Joe?

Don't you have anything better to do then memorize the specification 
sheets for vehicles that went out of production years before you were 
born? It's summer lad--get outside...Head to the beach and scope 
babes in bikinis...learn to surf...

Kids today. ;-)

jab

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:12:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: rover transport: Pilkington

I can be available July 11-12-13, but you'll have to spring for airfare   
 from/to Portland!  Sounds like a lot of fun.  Seriously, I could help   
out in a pinch as my calendar is open those days.

Simon

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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:15:27 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:06:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001, Faure, Marin wrote:
:>>>Some engineer told me a long time ago that the most inherantly vibration free
:engine design is a straight six... To do with the period the cylinders
:reciprocate at.

:>>I've heard this many times, too. The only thing smoother than a straight six
:is a V-12.

>Fans of non-reciprocating engines, like Wankels and gas turbines, laugh at
statements like that, of course.

Yes, but we all know that non-reciprocating engines aren't really engines, they're 
just glorified fans.....:-)    A real engine takes linear motion and turns it into rotary 
motion, and makes really cool noises while doing so.  Creating one of those things 
is an art.  Anyone can make a couple of disks spin on a stick.  Which sells more, 
the rotary-engine Norton (if they still make it) or the V-twin Harley-Davidson?  So 
what if the Norton goes a billion miles an hour and is silky smooth.  An engine 
that just sits there is no fun at all.  I fly both radial engine Beavers and turbine 
Beavers.  The turbines are faster, quieter, and require far less maintenance.  And 
they're boring as hell to fly.  The recips are slow, noisy, and have a TBO of only 
about 1600 hours.  But they're gobs of fun to fly.  I work for the largest (or second 
largest depending on how you interpret the numbers) manufacturer of commercial 
jets in the world.  The last interesting plane Boeing built was the 377 Stratocruiser.  
It had 112 cylinders, 224 spark plugs, and was a mechanic's nightmare.  But it was 
the last of the cool airplanes.  Everything we've made since is just a loud whine leaking 
out of a hole in the sky.  No character whatsoever in any of them.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:27:58 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:24:38 -0400
From: Perrone Ford <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

>Maybe thats why coil sprung guys don't wave more 
to you guys.

Actually, up here it's the other way around.  I don't wave 
at Defender drivers because: A) the chances are the guy 
has no clue as to what he's really driving, and doesn't 
recognize a Series anyway, B) the only reason he bought 
it is because it's expensive and the Microsoft newsletter 
said that owning a Land Rover is cool, and C) his primary 
concern is status with his neighbors and co-workers.  
Since my SIII doesn't look enough like a Defender to be 
recognized as a Land Rover by a Defender driver, and
Series Land Rovers are not considered cool in the Microsoft 
newsletter, and driving a Series denotes a definite lack of 
social status, I see virtually no point in waving at a Defender 
driver because we have nothing whatsoever in common.  And 
don't even get me started on Discovery drivers......:-)
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:35:45 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re  Kinda Long.....

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:41:49 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO:  Kinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

>To me the Rover is a big lego set.  I like the looks.  I like
working on them.  I enjoy the simplicity and the funny quirks.  I love that
I had to remove the radiator in order to take off the steering relay...

Actually, I found out that you don't have to do that.  Simply 
loosen the two long bolts that the idiot on the assembly line 
put in backwards, the ones that you have to remove the radiator 
to pull out.  Pull the bolts back and cut off the heads.  Remove the 
bolt shafts out the front, remove the relay and do whatever to it.  
When you put the thing back in, just install a pair of new long bolts 
with the heads facing the right way- forward.  End of problem.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:45:58 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

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In a message dated 6/29/01 2:04:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[email-masked] writes:

> Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth that 
> the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator.  I'm a big 
> 

To answer a part of your multi-part question, here goes.

I used to make coffee money during duck season here in the expansive and flat 
"Central Valley" of California. The scenario is as follows. Somebody 
(characterized as words that mean urban dweller by the locals) would pull off 
of the gravel road onto a flat equipment parking area adjacent to a rice 
field. The vehicle would stay for the night, and the occupants would hunt 
ducks in the morning. Weather conditions for optimum duck hunting include 
weather in the drizzle or raining category. These fine followers of Nimrod 
would finish duck hunting and attempt to drive to town for breakfast by about 
9:00 AM. The classic vehicle for this is an American pickup 3/4 or 1 ton, 
with very wide tires, and a camper on the back. Combined with the weight and 
slippery conditions, they'd cease to move after about 40 feet.  About 10:00 
AM we would drive out to the fields on the ranch, and cruise until we found 
such a catastrophe. We'd offer to pull them out and they'd laugh. We'd offer 
to try and if we succeeded, they'd pay twenty bucks, if we failed, no harm no 
foul. On acceptance, we'd back up to within about 15 feet of them, and hook 
up with a 5/8 inch chain, and tow them out. the only secret was to have pizza 
cutter tires, on our 1/2 ton,  one wheel drive ranch trucks. Some of our 
trucks had positraction actually, but not most. Before the hazards of 
breaking chains flood the list, there was no jerking involved, and pretty low 
stress really. You'll remember we spent a deal of time pulling out 
Caterpillar tractors as well, just not with our pickups. I'd say we knew what 
we were doing. 

Experience helps a lot 

Narrow tires probably not a great help in desert sand though. That's not very 
prevalent here. I'd say that wide tires help you get chicks (of a type that 
won't help fix flats), float across desert sand, and help avoid packing a 
heavy wallet. 

Zack

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Book Antiqua" LANG="0">In a message dated 6/29/01 2:04:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>[email-masked] writes:
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth that 
<BR>the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator. &nbsp;I'm a big 
<BR>proponent of ground clearance</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Book Antiqua" LANG="0">
<BR>To answer a part of your multi-part question, here goes.
<BR>
<BR>I used to make coffee money during duck season here in the expansive and flat 
<BR>"Central Valley" of California. The scenario is as follows. Somebody 
<BR>(characterized as words that mean urban dweller by the locals) would pull off 
<BR>of the gravel road onto a flat equipment parking area adjacent to a rice 
<BR>field. The vehicle would stay for the night, and the occupants would hunt 
<BR>ducks in the morning. Weather conditions for optimum duck hunting include 
<BR>weather in the drizzle or raining category. These fine followers of Nimrod 
<BR>would finish duck hunting and attempt to drive to town for breakfast by about 
<BR>9:00 AM. The classic vehicle for this is an American pickup 3/4 or 1 ton, 
<BR>with very wide tires, and a camper on the back. Combined with the weight and 
<BR>slippery conditions, they'd cease to move after about 40 feet. &nbsp;About 10:00 
<BR>AM we would drive out to the fields on the ranch, and cruise until we found 
<BR>such a catastrophe. We'd offer to pull them out and they'd laugh. We'd offer 
<BR>to try and if we succeeded, they'd pay twenty bucks, if we failed, no harm no 
<BR>foul. On acceptance, we'd back up to within about 15 feet of them, and hook 
<BR>up with a 5/8 inch chain, and tow them out. the only secret was to have pizza 
<BR>cutter tires, on our 1/2 ton, &nbsp;one wheel drive ranch trucks. Some of our 
<BR>trucks had positraction actually, but not most. Before the hazards of 
<BR>breaking chains flood the list, there was no jerking involved, and pretty low 
<BR>stress really. You'll remember we spent a deal of time pulling out 
<BR>Caterpillar tractors as well, just not with our pickups. I'd say we knew what 
<BR>we were doing. 
<BR>
<BR>Experience helps a lot 
<BR>
<BR>Narrow tires probably not a great help in desert sand though. That's not very 
<BR>prevalent here. I'd say that wide tires help you get chicks (of a type that 
<BR>won't help fix flats), float across desert sand, and help avoid packing a 
<BR>heavy wallet. 
<BR>
<BR>Zack</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_49.d3a3122.286e5116_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 2001 14:46:38 -0700
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

On Fri, 29 June 2001, Jeff Berg wrote:

>It's summer lad--get outside...Head to >the beach and scope 
> babes in bikinis...learn to surf...

Best advice I've seen on this board.....

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

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