Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #427

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:27:10 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, June 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 427

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:50:11 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

okay, just to amuse you jeff, and to do something that doesnt involve going 
outside on a cloudy day, here is my knowledge of  4x4s, i am not going to go 
into the LWB and range rover/discovery versions as i do not know as much 
about them.  in reality, i know much much more but will only remember it once 
asked.  her goes:

the jeep was the original light four wheel drive vehicle originally conceived 
for use on the battlefields of WWII.  companies such as willys, bantam, ford, 
and others were all took on the challenge. as many know, the willys design 
won the contract and they were produced under the wills name and later the 
ford name also.  after the war, two young blokes from a bicycle company in 
england came up with the idea for a farm tractor that could also be used as a 
runabout vehicle.  built originally on a willys jeep frame, the first 
preproduction land rover had centre steer and aluminum body panels (chosen 
because aluminum was cheaper in post war europe than steel).  unveiled at an 
auto show in 48, the land rover was put on sale soon after in the 80" 
wheelbase specification.  the earlier SI's had 1.6L inline four cylinder 
engines from the rover car, along with the transmission from teh same 
vehicle.  personally, i suspect that the earliest of the land rover transfer 
cases were actually Spicer 18 units, taken from the WWII willys.  these 
transfer cases were of a twin stick variety, meaning that rear wheel drive, 
front wheel drive, or four wheel drive could all be selected independently.  
a 2.46:1 low range was specified on these spicer 18s, and they also had both 
output shafts on the right hand side.  in i believe 1952, land rover switched 
to a 2.0L inline four gas engine, and later a 2.0L diesel was offered.  in 
1953, once again i believe, land rover went to an 86 inch wheelbase, and then 
again to an 88" wheelbase in 1957(?).  towards the end of the SI model run, 
the diesel engine was changed to a more powerful and reliable 2.25L unit.  
the SI production ceases in 1958.

the SII land rover was wuite a change over its SI predecessor.  a "sytled" 
body was imployed, as was a different dash and other styling cues.  the 
wheelbase of 88" was kept, although the other dimensions of the vehicle 
seemed to get larger.  the axle width was widened a bit, as was the general 
body width.  in 1962, land rover unveiled its newest, the SIIA.  this vehicle 
had a 2.25 gasoline engine as well as the 2.25 diesel from the SII.  this 
model was otherwise unchanged for the most part, until 1969.  In 1965, land 
rover moved the headlights to the wings to compensate for a new australian 
law.  a few land rover "bugeye" bodels were produced, with just the 
headlights cutout on the wings and no surround.  these vehicles were produced 
until land rover could design a proper headlight surround, first used on the 
1970 rovers.  in 1972, land rover introduced its newest model, the SIII.  
this model was more refined than ever before, with a vinyl dash and a all 
syncro trans.  land rover stopped importing to the USA in 1973.  the SIII 
continued its production though, up until the land rover 110 was introduced 
in 1981(?).  the SIII was sold alongside its new, coil sprung, 8 speed, full 
time four wheel drive counterpart until the land rover 90 was released in 
1984.  in 1987, range rover north america was founded, and new range rovers 
were imported to the states.  a true land rover would not come to the us 
until 1993, with th importation of the D110.  the D110 was sold for one model 
year only, and only 525 were imported to north america.  in 1994, however, 
the first defender 90s were brought stateside, with 3.9L V8s and sporty 
looks.  some would say that land rover hasnt been the same since.  in 1995. 
land rover changed from the LT77S 5 speed to the R380, and the taillights 
were changed to round units instead of the bulky square type.  land rover 
stopped importing defender 90s in 1995, but then brought them back again in 
1997 with 4.0L V8s and automatic transmissions.  the ultimate poseur mobile, 
you no longer had to use your left foot or your right arm while driving.

btw, i am going to the beach to check out some girls in bikinis tomorrow : )

adam

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:52:27 -0400
From: "Rodrigo Bejarano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

"SIII doesn't look enough like a Defender "...... Defenders must be really
different in the States...

When I bought last year my 1992 D110 (used, with character marks, mud, etc)
and proudly showed it to my wife, she just said:  I thought you were going
to buy a newer truck.. this is the same as the one your father has ('72 88
SW), only longer.

:-)

Rodrigo

1992 White V8 3.5 110 County   (Consider as a stretched 90)
La Paz
Bolivia

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 14:24:38 -0400
> From: Perrone Ford <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe
>
> >Maybe thats why coil sprung guys don't wave more
> to you guys.
>
> Actually, up here it's the other way around.  I don't wave
> at Defender drivers because: A) the chances are the guy
> has no clue as to what he's really driving, and doesn't
> recognize a Series anyway, B) the only reason he bought
> it is because it's expensive and the Microsoft newsletter
> said that owning a Land Rover is cool, and C) his primary
> concern is status with his neighbors and co-workers.
> Since my SIII doesn't look enough like a Defender to be
> recognized as a Land Rover by a Defender driver, and
> Series Land Rovers are not considered cool in the Microsoft
> newsletter, and driving a Series denotes a definite lack of
> social status, I see virtually no point in waving at a Defender
> driver because we have nothing whatsoever in common.  And
> don't even get me started on Discovery drivers......:-)
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:06:35 -0400
From: "Rodrigo Bejarano" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C100C6.3C258120
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"on our 1/2 ton,  one wheel drive ranch trucks"....I never, never =
encountered this type of truck.

:-)

Rodrigo
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [email-masked]=20
  To: [email-masked]=20
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:45 PM
  Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil =
comments bewarned

  In a message dated 6/29/01 2:04:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,=20
  [email-masked] writes:=20

    Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it just a myth =
that=20
    the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator.  I'm =
a big=20
    proponent of ground clearance

  To answer a part of your multi-part question, here goes.=20

  I used to make coffee money during duck season here in the expansive =
and flat=20
  "Central Valley" of California. The scenario is as follows. Somebody=20
  (characterized as words that mean urban dweller by the locals) would =
pull off=20
  of the gravel road onto a flat equipment parking area adjacent to a =
rice=20
  field. The vehicle would stay for the night, and the occupants would =
hunt=20
  ducks in the morning. Weather conditions for optimum duck hunting =
include=20
  weather in the drizzle or raining category. These fine followers of =
Nimrod=20
  would finish duck hunting and attempt to drive to town for breakfast =
by about=20
  9:00 AM. The classic vehicle for this is an American pickup 3/4 or 1 =
ton,=20
  with very wide tires, and a camper on the back. Combined with the =
weight and=20
  slippery conditions, they'd cease to move after about 40 feet.  About =
10:00=20
  AM we would drive out to the fields on the ranch, and cruise until we =
found=20
  such a catastrophe. We'd offer to pull them out and they'd laugh. We'd =
offer=20
  to try and if we succeeded, they'd pay twenty bucks, if we failed, no =
harm no=20
  foul. On acceptance, we'd back up to within about 15 feet of them, and =
hook=20
  up with a 5/8 inch chain, and tow them out. the only secret was to =
have pizza=20
  cutter tires, on our 1/2 ton,  one wheel drive ranch trucks. Some of =
our=20
  trucks had positraction actually, but not most. Before the hazards of=20
  breaking chains flood the list, there was no jerking involved, and =
pretty low=20
  stress really. You'll remember we spent a deal of time pulling out=20
  Caterpillar tractors as well, just not with our pickups. I'd say we =
knew what=20
  we were doing.=20

  Experience helps a lot=20

  Narrow tires probably not a great help in desert sand though. That's =
not very=20
  prevalent here. I'd say that wide tires help you get chicks (of a type =
that=20
  won't help fix flats), float across desert sand, and help avoid =
packing a=20
  heavy wallet.=20

  Zack=20

- ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C100C6.3C258120
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"on our 1/2 ton, &nbsp;one wheel drive =
ranch=20
trucks"....I never, never encountered this type of truck.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>:-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rodrigo</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]" =
title=[email-masked]>[email-masked]</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]"=20
  title=[email-masked]>[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 29, 2001 =
5:45 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: LRO: Prejudices =
wasKinda=20
  Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT face=3D"Book =
Antiqua" lang=3D0=20
  size=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF">In a message dated 6/29/01 2:04:43 PM =
Pacific Daylight=20
  Time, <BR><A =
href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A>=20
  writes: <BR><BR></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 =
size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">Are big FAT tires really better for off roading or is it =
just a=20
    myth that <BR>the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the =
operator.=20
    &nbsp;I'm a big <BR>proponent of ground =
clearance</BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3D#000000 face=3D"Book Antiqua" lang=3D0 size=3D3 =
FAMILY=3D"SERIF"><BR>To answer a=20
  part of your multi-part question, here goes. <BR><BR>I used to make =
coffee=20
  money during duck season here in the expansive and flat <BR>"Central =
Valley"=20
  of California. The scenario is as follows. Somebody <BR>(characterized =
as=20
  words that mean urban dweller by the locals) would pull off <BR>of the =
gravel=20
  road onto a flat equipment parking area adjacent to a rice <BR>field. =
The=20
  vehicle would stay for the night, and the occupants would hunt =
<BR>ducks in=20
  the morning. Weather conditions for optimum duck hunting include =
<BR>weather=20
  in the drizzle or raining category. These fine followers of Nimrod =
<BR>would=20
  finish duck hunting and attempt to drive to town for breakfast by =
about=20
  <BR>9:00 AM. The classic vehicle for this is an American pickup 3/4 or =
1 ton,=20
  <BR>with very wide tires, and a camper on the back. Combined with the =
weight=20
  and <BR>slippery conditions, they'd cease to move after about 40 feet. =

  &nbsp;About 10:00 <BR>AM we would drive out to the fields on the =
ranch, and=20
  cruise until we found <BR>such a catastrophe. We'd offer to pull them =
out and=20
  they'd laugh. We'd offer <BR>to try and if we succeeded, they'd pay =
twenty=20
  bucks, if we failed, no harm no <BR>foul. On acceptance, we'd back up =
to=20
  within about 15 feet of them, and hook <BR>up with a 5/8 inch chain, =
and tow=20
  them out. the only secret was to have pizza <BR>cutter tires, on our =
1/2 ton,=20
  &nbsp;one wheel drive ranch trucks. Some of our <BR>trucks had =
positraction=20
  actually, but not most. Before the hazards of <BR>breaking chains =
flood the=20
  list, there was no jerking involved, and pretty low <BR>stress really. =
You'll=20
  remember we spent a deal of time pulling out <BR>Caterpillar tractors =
as well,=20
  just not with our pickups. I'd say we knew what <BR>we were doing.=20
  <BR><BR>Experience helps a lot <BR><BR>Narrow tires probably not a =
great help=20
  in desert sand though. That's not very <BR>prevalent here. I'd say =
that wide=20
  tires help you get chicks (of a type that <BR>won't help fix flats), =
float=20
  across desert sand, and help avoid packing a <BR>heavy wallet.=20
  <BR><BR>Zack</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0152_01C100C6.3C258120--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:11:49 -0700
From: "G. Mugele" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Farm gate clearance

- --============_-1218269782==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 10:13 AM -0700 6/29/01, Faure, Marin wrote:
>Someone suggested the Land Rover was sized deliberately to
>fit through the farm gates in the UK.  I suspect this was not actually
>a consideration.  The Land Rover was sized to be the same as the
>Jeep it was based on, as well as the average width of other vehicles
>of that day.  Vehicles on the whole were smaller and narrower
>in the 1940s than they are today.  It had nothing to do with gate
>clearances, it was just the way vehicles evolved.

<snip>

>   There are already enough bogus beliefs and theories floating around about
>the Land Rover.  Let's not add another one.

Yes, let's be careful about this, we wouldn't want to have someone on 
a list somewhere be putting out bad information of a critical topic 
such as this.  ;-)

They are not the same even though the Land Rover was based on the 
Jeep.  For the record Marin; from Graham Robson's 1976 "The Land 
Rover, Workhorse of the World"
page 23:

           47 Land Rover              Willy Jeep
Wheelbase      80"                       80"
Length        132"                      133"
Width          60"                       62"
Track          50"                       48"

I don't know why the Land Rover was narrower and I'd never heard of 
the farm gate theory but I do know that a Land Rover fits very nicely 
down the rows of grape vines in the traditional vineyards of Northern 
California.  My theory is that they were designed just for vineyards 
and that when the new mechanized harvesting forced vintners to change 
the row widths in 1974 it allowed larger vehicles access.  Realizing 
their marketing disadvantage British-Leyland decided to pull out of 
the US Market.  Isn't that the way it happened?

Gerry Mugele
*** "It's not on any map - true places never are."  -- Mark Twain

- --============_-1218269782==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:13 AM -0700 6/29/01, Faure, Marin wrote:

<excerpt>Someone suggested the Land Rover was sized deliberately to 

fit through the farm gates in the UK.  I suspect this was not actually

a consideration.  The Land Rover was sized to be the same as the 

Jeep it was based on, as well as the average width of other vehicles 

of that day.  Vehicles on the whole were smaller and narrower 

in the 1940s than they are today.  It had nothing to do with gate 

clearances, it was just the way vehicles evolved.

</excerpt>

<<snip>

<excerpt>  There are already enough bogus beliefs and theories floating
around about 

the Land Rover.  Let's not add another one.

</excerpt>

Yes, let's be careful about this, we wouldn't want to have someone on a
list somewhere be putting out bad information of a critical topic such
as this.  ;-)

They are not the same even though the Land Rover was based on the Jeep.
 For the record Marin; from Graham Robson's 1976 "The Land Rover,
Workhorse of the World"

page 23:

<fontfamily><param>Courier_New</param>          47 Land Rover          
   Willy Jeep

Wheelbase      80"                       80"

Length        132"                      133"

Width          60"                       62"

Track          50"                       48"

</fontfamily>I don't know why the Land Rover was narrower and I'd never
heard of the farm gate theory but I do know that a Land Rover fits very
nicely down the rows of grape vines in the traditional vineyards of
Northern California.  My theory is that they were designed just for
vineyards and that when the new mechanized harvesting forced vintners
to change the row widths in 1974 it allowed larger vehicles access. 
Realizing their marketing disadvantage British-Leyland decided to pull
out of the US Market.  Isn't that the way it happened?

Gerry Mugele

*** <fontfamily><param>Palatino</param><smaller>"It's not on any map -
true places never are."  -- Mark Twain  
</smaller></fontfamily>

- --============_-1218269782==_ma============--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:15:43 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

>(chosen because aluminum was cheaper in post war europe than steel).

Overall I am most impressed, even if your essay does prove my point.

However, the above statement is not true. Aluminum was more 
expensive, but because of a surplus of this material that was no 
longer needed to manufacture warplanes, it was readily available. 
Steel was being rationed and companies exporting products got the 
allotments--Britian needed cash. Rover had little to no export 
markets at the time, and thus needed to use steel sparingly. It's 
also why the box chassis was used--labor intensive, but it used less 
steel then other options.

My source: Land Rover: The Unbeatable 4x4, Third Edition, by K&J 
Slavin and G. N. Mackie (the latter of head of Land-Rover Special 
Projects.)

As I said, otherwise a concise and excellent introduction to the 
Marque--perhaps worthy of being archived in the FAQ. Dixon?

And now that you're done why don't you pack your binoculars, 
sunscreen and a good book into your backpack so you can get an early 
start in the morning. A camera wouldn't hurt either. We expect a 
full, accurate, and equally well researched report regarding "The 
Girls On the Beach" tomorrow.

rgds!

jeff

- -- 
==                                                               
  Jeffrey A. Berg   Purple Shark Media         Rowayton, CT        
                   [email-masked]  
                    ==================
	Ia oro te natura
	E mea arofa teie ao nei
	Ua oau te maitai no te fenua
	Te vai noa ra te ora o te mitie
		--Jimmy Buffett, One Particular Harbour

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:11:27 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

Al Richer writes: >>There's an article for you, Frank - the dumb things auto
designers expect
> us to buy...<<<

er... but as we all have bought Land Rovers we start from halfway up the
slippery slope!
I like weird.
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:20:22 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: strange looking French cars-way off topic

you write: >>>Pontiac Aztek - THAT is wierd.
>
> Only calling it weird is very charitable of you Alan. I would call it the
> ugliest vehicle in current production<<<

oh, so you don't get the Musso or the Ford Ka there then...
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:07:35 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Farm gate clearance

totally agree with you Marin.
 I've talked to some of the early developers, most notably Tom Barton, and
never once heard a farm gateway mentioned. It seems to be so important that
someone would have mentioned that they had taken it into account...
 Mind you, I can show you gateways in Yorkshire that you can't get anything
more than a motorcycle through...

anecdote time: in one of James Herriott's books is the story of the gate -
the one that always 'attacked' James when he went to visit a certain farm.
 The TV company liked this one and paid a carpenter/special effects man to
build such a gate.
 Then they needed a place to film it so went out in the Dales looking for a
location. The first gate they came to attacked the production assistant...

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: LRO: Farm gate clearance

> Someone suggested the Land Rover was sized deliberately to
> fit through the farm gates in the UK.  I suspect this was not actually
> a consideration.  The Land Rover was sized to be the same as the
> Jeep it was based on, as well as the average width of other vehicles
> of that day.  Vehicles on the whole were smaller and narrower
> in the 1940s than they are today.  It had nothing to do with gate
> clearances, it was just the way vehicles evolved.
>
> I don't think farm gates placed any specific restrictions
> on the design of the Land Rover if for no other reason than vehicles of
> all sorts had been driven successfully through farm gates for decades
> prior to the appearance of the Land Rover.  Just watch an episode or
> two of "All Creatures Great and Small" and you will observe period
vehicles
> of every ilk, from saloon cars to knacker's lorries, negotiating
> centuries-old farm gates with no problems.  I've driven Defenders and
> Discoveries through farm gates in the Yorkshire Dales, the Lake District,
> and the Highlands on many occasions.  While the gates themselves were
> generally less than 20 years old, the gaps in the stone walls had been
unchanged for
> ages.  In virtually every case, there was plenty of clearance, even for
our
> Defender 130 Crew Cab.
>
> There is a lot of farm equipment that's much wider than
> a Land Rover, and there has been since before the Land Rover was
conceived.
> So I think trying to insert "farm gate clearance" into the
already-distorted history
> of Land Rover (in the US thanks in large part to Land Rover North
America),
> is not a good idea.  I have never seen any reference to gate width as a
design
> criteria in any of the Land Rover history books and writeups I have, most
of
> which are fairly old and so were written much closer to reality than a
recent work
> which may elevate rumor to fact.  I have seen quotes from the Land Rover's
developers
> in which they outlined what they wanted to do with the design.  Nobody
said anything
> about making it through farm gates.  They didn't have to, as all the
comparable sized
> vehicles, including the Jeep they were copying, already made it through
farm gates
> just fine.  There are already enough bogus beliefs and theories floating
around about
> the Land Rover.  Let's not add another one.
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:41:20 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

Yes, they can have 44's on them, and if they are 1974 or later, than you
get disk brakes up front. 

Bryan Hoult wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 June 2001, "Hope Peter" wrote:
> 
> >Using Scout axles would be pretty good >idea if you dont mind making the
> >vehicle wider.
> >Pete
> 
> Does anyone know if the Scout axles ever included Dana 44's?  I followed a very nicely prepped late model IH Scout (77-78?) into work today, and I thought the diff looked Dana-ish.  The truck had revolver shackles and was easily running on 35's or taller.  The scouts are very popular where I live, and you hardly ever see a stock one.  They are relatively cheap used so if you boff the truck off road, you can buy a couple of spares trucks for what we put into say ...........a Land Rover transmission.
> 
> Bryan
> 62 88
> 70 109 "Genie"
> 
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: 29 Jun 2001 15:38:54 -0700
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

On Fri, 29 June 2001, "Peter Ogilvie" wrote:

>Going faster than 70mph on ANY off 
>road capable truck is irresponsible >and dangerous to the rest of us.

That's for damned sure.  Every morning I have the potential misfortune of passing a lifted Ford pickup (late sixties genre)coming from the opposite direction, on a country road.  The lift was obviously done with the assistance of an inebriated brother in law and a one eyed cousin.  At any rate, the thing comes bouncing down the road like a basketball on its enormous tires, and all I can think is "God, just let the 3rd member catch me square in the forehead, and I won't spend the kid's college money on my Land Rovers anymore".  Unfortunately, a glance to the cab doesn't instill any confidence.  Remember the character from Deliverance that uttered the line "squeal like a pig"?  Well, the driver of this truck makes that guy look like an Ivy League recruiter.

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:42:53 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

Jeff, "The Babes On The Beach Stroy" will, I expect, be one of my greater works.  Chapter One: Blondes.  btw, my source for my essay: my own head after collecting 4 years of knowledge on these things. I appreciate your correction.  what i meant was that because of steel being rationed, it would have cost them more money to get the same amount of steel as aluminum.  a twisted version of the old supply/demand rule.

adam

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:52:23 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: benefits of coil springs

Coil springs would be nice on a series if only for the reason that then
I would stop breaking my front leafs. This is the 3rd time!! I guess I'm
too hard on the poor thing. At least this time it wasn't the main leaf
like the other two breaks were. This time I broke one of the scout 
leaves that I have intermingled with the rover ones. Time to rummage
through the stack of spare leaves behind the garage I guess.
- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:53:49 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Tach wiring

I'm going to retrofit a Fiat tach into my IIa. The truck was originally 
positive earth but has been switched over. TeriAnn's writeup 
(http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/LRTACH.htm) mentions the need for a 
voltage stabilizer for her MG tach. How can I tell if I need one on my truck?

Keith
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:55:06 -0600
From: "Coates, Clinton" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Piston engines

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C100EE.8A7A93B0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Marin, you said it right.
 
I never look up for jets or turboprops, unless I happen to be working on the
Mountain Home Air Weapons Range, that is....  But whenever the
Thbbpbpbbpbppp of a piston engine, especially a rotary, comes along, all
work stops while I work on the crick in my neck....
 
Clinton

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C100EE.8A7A93B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=180275922-29062001>Marin, you said it 
right.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=180275922-29062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=180275922-29062001>I never look up for 
jets or turboprops, unless I happen to be working on the Mountain Home Air 
Weapons Range, that is....&nbsp; But whenever the Thbbpbpbbpbppp of a piston 
engine, especially a rotary, comes along, all work stops while I work on the 
crick in my neck....</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=180275922-29062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=180275922-29062001>Clinton</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C100EE.8A7A93B0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:18:35 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Prejudices

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:00:35 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Prejudices wasKinda Long and Opinionated Leaf/Coil comments bewarned

>Are big FAT tires really better for off roading....?
 
I suspect Mr. Ogilvie has enough 4wd experience to be able to answer 
his own question, but for anyone who is actually wondering about 
this, my opinion is that fat tires are not the ideal tire for off-roading 
except under certain circumstances.  On "average" trails- dirt, loose
rock, gravel, moderate mud- a fat tire can have a tendency to slide 
sideways on a sidehill, and possibly put you in a position you don't 
want to be in.  A narrow tire will have more of a tendency to dig 
into the surface and hold the vehicle on the sidehill. This is a 
generality, you understand.  In some kinds of mud, a narrow tire 
will cut through it down to the firmer hardpack underneath.  Same in 
snow, where a narrow tire might do better than a fat tire in this 
respect.

If we collectively thought fat tires looked like Bubba Hick's farm tractor 
and so denoted them as being incredibly uncool, you wouldn't see them on 
very many vehicles.  But they look macho because of the publicity from 
sand pulls and hill climbs and monster truck shows, and so now they have 
the image of the right tire for off-road use.

Fat tires do have their purposes, of course.  Wherever you need high 
floatation, be it deep mud, soft sand, tundra, a plowed field, a low 
pressure fat tire is just the ticket, although ironically the best fat 
tire in some of these situations is one with no, or minimal, tread, instead 
of the dinosaur feet you see on so many pickups.  Again, this is due, I believe, 
to the monster truck image.  When Kenworth's Conventional assembly 
plant was next to the Boeing facility I worked at originally, I would occasionally 
see one of their special purpose trucks on the test track.  Some of these were 
for oil exploration or something, and were equipped with multiple sets of extremely 
wide, low pressure tires with no tread other than enough to judge tire wear, like the 
grooves on airplane tires.  But these were trucks that were going to spend their 
days on the tundra, and were designed to have as minimal an impact as possible 
on that rather fragile environment.

With the exception of the high-floatation situations I've mentioned, I suspect 
a 4wd with narrow tires will go farther in an average rough trail situation than 
the same vehicle with fat tires, given the same driver skill.  Or if not 
go farther, at least have an easier time negotiating the trail.  Narrow tires also 
get noticeably better fuel economy on the pavement than fat tires.  Narrow 
tires are also easier to change, if for no other reason than they don't weigh 
nearly as much as some of the huge things you see on so many vehicles 
these days. This may sound like a minor consideration, but if you've ever 
changed a tire in the driving rain with the vehicle on a muddy slope on a 
somewhat precarious jack (I have), you will appreciate having a fairly 
light wheel-tire combination.

I have always run fairly narrow tires on my SIII (tread widths from 
6 to 7 inches), and have never had problems on the trail, even 
on fairly severe sidehills with somewhat slippery surfaces, or in snow.  
This has been 
normal driving, not competition driving, which imposes a whole different set 
of requirements.   Based on the ranch and hunting driving I have done from 
the mid 1960s on, which has pretty much all been in mountains, I will always 
go for the narrowest tire I can get away with as long as it has the type of 
tread suited for the surface, regardless of the make of 4wd.  If I was 
doing a lot of desert driving, I might go for a wider tire, depending on the nature 
of the desert.

>...or is it just a myth that 
the Wider the tires, the longer the equipment of the operator.

For the most part, based on what I observe on the road every day, I agree 
with Mr.Ogilvie's insinuation that the wider the tire, the longer the driver wants 
you to think his equipment is.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:24:24 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six (was New Guy....)

In article 
<[email-masked]>, 
Marin Faure wrote:
> Anyone can make a couple of disks spin on a stick
>
But only Rolls-Royce can spin three at a time!

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:24:25 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: War Over Galvanizing Strange New French Guy

In article <[email-masked]>,  wrote:
> two young blokes from a bicycle company in 
> england
>
I suggest you amend that to "two young blokes from a respected car manufacturer in England, that was also 
involved in the early production of aviation gas turbine engines"

>aluminum body panels (chosen 
>because aluminum was cheaper in post war europe than steel).

Try "aluminium body panels (chosen because aluminium was more readily available in post-war Britain  than 
steel)" (lots of aluminium from scrap aircraft became available!)

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:24:25 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Balanced

In article <[email-masked]>, A. P. (Sandy) 
Grice wrote:
> a 10 shilling piece
Sorry Sandy, no such coin.

It could have been a sixpence, a 1 shilling coin, a 2 shilling coin or 
a half-crown (two shillings and six pence). These were all "silver".

Bronze coinage of the time (pre decimal) was the Farthing (1/4 penny), 
ha`penny (1/2 penny) a penny or a threepenny bit.

 Ten Shillings was a note. It was replaced by the post decimal 50p 
coin.
 
 We decimalised in 1971. 
 
 Tell that to t` youth of today and they won`t believe you!
 (Monty Python).

Paul Lonsdale

EX-H.M.Coastguard SIII SWB
B895 OJT "Dougal"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:25:34 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Straight Six 

- --part1_21.dc4016c.286e686e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]> wrote:

<< Does anyone know what a good running 80,000 mile 2.6 Land Rover Straight 
Six engine is worth. It is out of the vehicle. >>

Should be worth a bit more than scrap iron, as it contains a lot of brass and 
aluminum which will scrap out at more pennies to the pound.  Real value, of 
course, will depend on whether you are buying or selling, and/or how much you 
want one (or want to get rid of one).  

The few LR 2.6 sixes I have known were ready for overhaul between 60,000 and 
80,000 miles.  Be sure to check for cracked block (caused by water freezing 
in coolant passages).  I have seen these and still have a few parts salvaged 
off of one with a cracked block.  

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover 109
Denver

- --part1_21.dc4016c.286e686e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Mark Pilkington &lt;[email-masked]&gt; wrote:
<BR>
<BR>&lt;&lt; Does anyone know what a good running 80,000 mile 2.6 Land Rover Straight 
<BR>Six engine is worth. It is out of the vehicle. &gt;&gt;
<BR>
<BR>Should be worth a bit more than scrap iron, as it contains a lot of brass and 
<BR>aluminum which will scrap out at more pennies to the pound. &nbsp;Real value, of 
<BR>course, will depend on whether you are buying or selling, and/or how much you 
<BR>want one (or want to get rid of one). &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>The few LR 2.6 sixes I have known were ready for overhaul between 60,000 and 
<BR>80,000 miles. &nbsp;Be sure to check for cracked block (caused by water freezing 
<BR>in coolant passages). &nbsp;I have seen these and still have a few parts salvaged 
<BR>off of one with a cracked block. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Paul Donohue
<BR>1965 Land Rover 109
<BR>Denver</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_21.dc4016c.286e686e_boundary--

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #427
**********************************************