Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #421

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:23:38 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, June 28 2001 Volume 01 : Number 421

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:41:14 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110  question-re:wiring)

> but I wouldn't use a painless if it
> was given to me.  check out www.wire-works.com
>
> a bit more (their "basic" kit is like $275, fine for most 4wd's), but much
> better design
>

Aloha,
care to expand upon this statement?
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:47:08 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Re: RE: Painless Wiring & light ?

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:17
Subject: LRO: RE: Re: RE: Painless Wiring & light ?

> Pete,
>
> I used the generous wire lengths of the Painless 7 cir. fuse block to
mount
> my fuse panel on the dash

Did you mount this in the space in front of the passenger?  Or behind the
gauges?  I was thinking about the blank space infront of the passanger, but
decided I wanted a glove box, so mounted it in the engine compartment.  I do
think that for the next project I will be mounting it inside.  Not that many
wires run straight from the fuse block into the engine compartment.
I just got done making an overhead console that will hold my radio, cb, and
off road light switches.  Still plenty of room inside the thing, think it
would be the perfect place to 'hide' the fuses.

> You might check to see if Painless sells just their naked switch
> boxes...would make a nice splash box...

Radio shack, project boxes :-)
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:51:45 -0400
From: Jeff Berg <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: RE: Re: RE: Painless Wiring & light ?

>Did you mount this in the space in front of the passenger?  Or behind the
>gauges?  I was thinking about the blank space infront of the passanger

I've been planning to upgrade and move FINSUP's auxiliary fuse panels 
into this slot for sometime. They will be enclosed so I'll still be 
able to use the shelf. Have to have a look at the stuff from Painless 
and Wire Works. (Will probably just roll my own from industrial 
catalogs though.)

It's on the list...

jeff
- -- 
==                                                                   
  Jeffrey A. Berg     Purple Shark Media        Rowayton, CT        
                     [email-masked]
                      ==================
	My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
	My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
	Taste for the good life, 
	I can see it no other way.
		--Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:53:42 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Instrument panel

>Rich & Lori Williams wrote:
> 
> I started out thinking about adding a tach to the instrument panel.  Then I
> got to thinking that the main center panel and the two addition panels to
> the left of the h20/oil gauge and turn indicator switch might look better on
> one single panel so I am in the process of experimenting with a custom
> setup.

I believe you said you have a Series III.  You are aware, I assume, that the small 
panel in the lower facia where US-spec SIIIs had a single Smiths oil pressure 
gauge is actually cut out for three gauges.  The holes in the panel are already 
there; they covered them with the black vinyl dash material at the factory.  A year 
or so after I bought my SIII, I added Smiths volt and ammeter gauges in the 
other two holes.  They match the style of the oil gauge that came installed in 
the vehicle.  I don't know if these gauges are still available, but if wired correctly they 
are quite accurate in showing the voltage in the electrical system, and the load 
on the system.  The ammeter is sensitive enough to indicate a load change as 
small as a blinking turn signal.  Not really essential instruments, as I mentioned 
before, but nice to have and the three matched gauges look nice in the panel 
if one cares about such things.

Another advantage of the manifold pressure gauge I forgot to mention: it will do a first 
rate job of telling you if you have a valve problem.  I have my gauge tapped directly into the 
intake manifold, where it is extremely sensitive to any fluctuations in pressure.  If a valve 
clearance is too tight, it shows on the gauge as a rhythmically jerking or pulsing needle.  
Same thing for a burned valve.  Of course, you also get the characteristic "spitting" sound 
out the exhaust, too, with either condition.  It also gives you a basic picture of the compression 
condition of the engine.  At idle, the pressure will be "X", while under deceleration, the pressure 
will be "Y."  If you get lower (with a vacuum gauge) or higher (with a manifold pressure gauge) 
readings at X and Y, you will know that something is amiss.  The deceleration reading is 
particularly telling, for instance as you're descending a reasonably steep hill at speed with your foot 
off the gas.  Extremely useful instrument, the manifold pressure gauge.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:21:24 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110 question-re:wiring)

> I'm, new here  (i'll post into later)  but I wouldn't use a painless if it
> was given to me.  check out www.wire-works.com

Why is that? I've never heard anything but good words about Painless. I have
some *real* gearhead friends who love them. I asked a ton of people, and I
didn't get one bad review.
Do tell...

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:28:05 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Painless Wiring 

> ...oh yeah, Jegs.com has the Painless items on their website...better
prices
> and stock than Summit too...

Nice to see another choice, but the prices only seem to vary by a buck or
two. Am I missing something vis-a-vis "better prices?"

Perhaps the JEGS guys aren't as surley. There's value in that...

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:11:16 -0400
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110 question-re:wiring)

Ok,

	I'll give you one!  I ordered the painless wiring harness to install a pair
of off-road lights.  Since I had never wired up a relay before, I thought
this would be a great way to get it done.  Well, the instructions were quite
clear, but the wire itself was quite thin and the insulation left a LOT to
be desired.  The wire ends supplied were incorrect to finish the
installation, and the length of wiring supplied left no option to draw 12v
directly from the battery, assuming instead that you would pull your hot
lead from under the dash.

	Soooooo.... I connected everything up loosely with wire ties, and drove
over to West Marine.  I purchased almost all new wire, new zinc plated
copper connectors, and secured everything properly.  To be fair, if I were
running a set of fog lamps on a street vehicle, the wiring would likely have
been sufficient.  But for a truck that was going to see submerged duty, it
was grossly insufficient.  And it would cost them only pennies per kit to
use quality connectors and properly insulated wiring.

	For a first time project it was fine, but I'd certainly do it myself next
time around.  The switch and relay provided were of good quality though.  I
really get the impression that Painless Wiring is really geared for people
doing hot rod kits in the garage.  Since those vehicles often see light duty
at the weekends, it meets that need, but I would NOT recommend it for a
daily driver or for extreme duty.

- -Perrone

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of Alex Maiolo
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:21 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110
> question-re:wiring)
>
>
>
> > I'm, new here  (i'll post into later)  but I wouldn't use a
> painless if it
> > was given to me.  check out www.wire-works.com
>
>
> Why is that? I've never heard anything but good words about
> Painless. I have
> some *real* gearhead friends who love them. I asked a ton of people, and I
> didn't get one bad review.
> Do tell...
>
> Alex Maiolo
> Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:46:44 -0400
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: galvie / paint

> Someone was speculating that the naked galvanized bulkhead wouldn't look 
> good with red panels on their truck.  Might I suggest that the naked 
> bulkhead would look great with naked panels.  A naked finish is extremely 
> durable, doesn't show scratches, and the price is right.  Why paint a series 
> truck??
> 
> Aloha
> Peter O.
> 
> 

How can anybody argue with logic like that?
Bill Fishel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:52:42 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110 question-re:wiring)

- --=====================_8728749==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Painless is a universal kit.

the wire works kit is custom made..  the fuse block is not prewired, you 
get about 10 bags with color coded instructions.  you can get every 
switch/socket/connector added to the kit, and they'll tailor the 
instructions to you.  plus the big one.  i'm putting a diesel in my scout, 
only they would build me a wiring kit (well, ok, i have to do the glow plug 
circuit myself) for the diesel.

Joe

At 10:21 PM 6/27/2001 -0400, you wrote:

> > I'm, new here  (i'll post into later)  but I wouldn't use a painless if it
> > was given to me.  check out www.wire-works.com
>
>
>Why is that? I've never heard anything but good words about Painless. I have
>some *real* gearhead friends who love them. I asked a ton of people, and I
>didn't get one bad review.
>Do tell...
>
>Alex Maiolo
>Chapel Hill NC

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

- --=====================_8728749==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Painless is a universal kit.<br><br>
the wire works kit is custom made..&nbsp; the fuse block is not prewired,
you get about 10 bags with color coded instructions.&nbsp; you can get
every switch/socket/connector added to the kit, and they'll tailor the
instructions to you.&nbsp; plus the big one.&nbsp; i'm putting a diesel
in my scout, only they would build me a wiring kit (well, ok, i have to
do the glow plug circuit myself) for the diesel.<br><br>
Joe<br><br>
At 10:21 PM 6/27/2001 -0400, you wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>&gt; I'm, new here&nbsp; (i'll post
into later)&nbsp; but I wouldn't use a painless if it<br>
&gt; was given to me.&nbsp; check out
<a href="http://www.wire-works.com/" eudora="autourl">www.wire-works.com</a><br><br>
<br>
Why is that? I've never heard anything but good words about Painless. I
have<br>
some *real* gearhead friends who love them. I asked a ton of people, and
I<br>
didn't get one bad review.<br>
Do tell...<br><br>
Alex Maiolo<br>
Chapel Hill NC</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
<a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font>
<br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_8728749==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:09:02 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

- --=====================_9078249==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi guys.  I joined this list because i'm considering a series rover some 
time in the next few years.

I'm a IH scout guy, and will always be.  I currently run a mostly stock 
'78.  304 v8, t-19 wide and dana 20.  named "clyde"  converted to 
SSII.  fubared clutch.  plans for it are to fix the rusted peices, go with 
fiberglass outter parts.  next week i'm doing the clutch.  i'll do a SOA 
using chevy axles (14 bolt and 8 lug 44)  the diesel goes in around 
november.  junking the SSII 'glass inserts and getting custom cut metal 
doors.  am gonna have a canvas top  made for it. also modify a traveler top 
for it.  if any one in the SL area is doing fiber glass work, I need to 
learn how and would be glad to give a hand to learn.

I'm 25, single, blah, blah, blah.  born in utah, live in utah.  lived in WY 
and ID too  work for equifax.  about to start schooling to be a mechanical 
engineer.  was a diesel mechanic/truck driver before i became disabled.

I've been on the offroad list for 2 years as a semi-lurker (and probably do 
the same here)  IH digest for almost 4 (seems like just yesterday) and 
jeep-slc (local list) for about 1 year.  I'm a founding member of Smoking 
Scouts Diesel Club, also membership officer.  all diesels are welcome, just 
ask me for details.

on rovers, here's what I think I want:

109"
light weight front clip
tub "lightened"
range rover 5spd/tcase/axles
coils
sd33 or sd22 diesel

this would be a trail rig, but still street legal, is this a good project, 
or too "out there"?

Joe

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

- --=====================_9078249==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
Hi guys.&nbsp; I joined this list because i'm considering a series rover
some time in the next few years.<br><br>
I'm a IH scout guy, and will always be.&nbsp; I currently run a mostly
stock '78.&nbsp; 304 v8, t-19 wide and dana 20.&nbsp; named
&quot;clyde&quot;&nbsp; converted to SSII.&nbsp; fubared clutch.&nbsp;
plans for it are to fix the rusted peices, go with fiberglass outter
parts.&nbsp; next week i'm doing the clutch.&nbsp; i'll do a SOA using
chevy axles (14 bolt and 8 lug 44)&nbsp; the diesel goes in around
november.&nbsp; junking the SSII 'glass inserts and getting custom cut
metal doors.&nbsp; am gonna have a canvas top&nbsp; made for it. also
modify a traveler top for it.&nbsp; if any one in the SL area is doing
fiber glass work, I need to learn how and would be glad to give a hand to
learn.<br><br>
I'm 25, single, blah, blah, blah.&nbsp; born in utah, live in utah.&nbsp;
lived in WY and ID too&nbsp; work for equifax.&nbsp; about to start
schooling to be a mechanical engineer.&nbsp; was a diesel mechanic/truck
driver before i became disabled.<br><br>
I've been on the offroad list for 2 years as a semi-lurker (and probably
do the same here)&nbsp; IH digest for almost 4 (seems like just
yesterday) and jeep-slc (local list) for about 1 year.&nbsp; I'm a
founding member of Smoking Scouts Diesel Club, also membership
officer.&nbsp; all diesels are welcome, just ask me for 
details.<br><br>
on rovers, here's what I think I want:<br><br>
109&quot;<br>
light weight front clip<br>
tub &quot;lightened&quot;<br>
range rover 5spd/tcase/axles<br>
coils<br>
sd33 or sd22 diesel<br><br>
this would be a trail rig, but still street legal, is this a good
project, or too &quot;out there&quot;?<br><br>
Joe<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
<a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font>
<br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_9078249==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:08:32 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Painless Wiring (Re: Re: Ex MOD 110  question-re:wiring)

> instructions to you.  plus the big one.  i'm putting a diesel in my scout,

Ahhh Scouts, Land Rovers and diesels.... man after my own heart.
What model Scout?  400 or II?
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:09:22 -0700
From: "Monika & Steve Rochna" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Euro 6 / SU HD6 power problem

All:

I have a IIB with the Euro 6 and an HD6 carb.  It starts okay and idles good
but will not put out any power to speak of unless it is hot and has at least
half choke.  When it got here I noticed a bubbling from the #6 cyl between
the head and block so slacked the head fixings and retorqued IAW the book.
No more bubbling but still not much power.  I got a carb kit and reassembled
it IAW the book after a good cleaning.  The engine has 8300km on the clock
since new in 1968 and is currently operating at 4000' msl.  I have a spare
head gasket and might pull the head this weekend to look into the engine and
confirm there is no inter-cyl leakage, maybe even have the head skimmed
while it it off.

Does anyone out there have any experience with these engines and carbs?  I'm
pretty familiar w/the 2.25 but this set up is new to me.  Any help / advice
is appreciated.

Thanks - Steve Rochna, Fallon, NV
1972 88"
1968 110"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:09:22 -0700
From: "Monika & Steve Rochna" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Euro 6 / SU HD6 power problem

All:

I have a IIB with the Euro 6 and an HD6 carb.  It starts okay and idles good
but will not put out any power to speak of unless it is hot and has at least
half choke.  When it got here I noticed a bubbling from the #6 cyl between
the head and block so slacked the head fixings and retorqued IAW the book.
No more bubbling but still not much power.  I got a carb kit and reassembled
it IAW the book after a good cleaning.  The engine has 8300km on the clock
since new in 1968 and is currently operating at 4000' msl.  I have a spare
head gasket and might pull the head this weekend to look into the engine and
confirm there is no inter-cyl leakage, maybe even have the head skimmed
while it it off.

Does anyone out there have any experience with these engines and carbs?  I'm
pretty familiar w/the 2.25 but this set up is new to me.  Any help / advice
is appreciated.

Thanks - Steve Rochna, Fallon, NV
1972 88"
1968 110"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:15:17 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: New Guy or All about Joe

> http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
> 78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for
Smoking
> Scouts.
>
> "It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"
>

Like then site.  Really like the swing out tire/fuel/hilift rack on the 78.
The links to you photos are to your local machine however. :-)
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:42:06 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: galvie / paint

My newly-galv'd bulkhead is bare, and I love it.  I think it looks nice,
esp. since the t-piece is also galv'd so they kind of set each other off.
 I left the galv'd breakfast bare and am considering painting it--it
doesn't look so hot.

bill

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 02:14:55 -0400 "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
writes:
> Russ
> They were left bare. I probably have looked at more than 2 
> but with paint unless I asked I wouldn't realize they had been
> galvanized. The only thing really noticeable is the door post 
> and top of the bulkhead below the window from outside.
> Inside is a different story.
> Bill Fishel
> 
> ----------
> > From: Russ Wilson <[email-masked]>
> > To: [email-masked]
> > Subject: Re: LRO: Re: galvie / paint
> > Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:11 PM
> > 
> > Were they left "bare" or painted?
> > 
> > >Russ
> > >I've seen 2 Rovers with galvanized bulkheads and they
> > >both made me jealous I didn't do mine when I had the
> > >chance.
> > >Bill Fishel
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:08:15 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: GPS and Speed (and Instrument Panel)

I did away with the speedo several years ago and have since used a GPS II 
Plus and an hour meter.  It has been very satisfactory for my purposes.  

Ed Bailey
66 S2A SWB (Millennium Falcon)
Somewhere in East Tennessee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:40:39 -0400
From: "Sergi, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

This is too "out there".  Just buy a Range Rover it has coils already. and
the Range Rover tcase/axles.

on rovers, here's what I think I want:

109"
light weight front clip
tub "lightened"
range rover 5spd/tcase/axles
coils
sd33 or sd22 diesel

this would be a trail rig, but still street legal, is this a good project,
or too "out there"?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:05:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: galvy bulkheads

I've seen several and have talked with a few guys who have them.  I've   
heard nothing of warpage severe enough to be an issue and the benefits   
seem to me to be so big I'd do it, especially if I lived in a salty   
environment.  The only warpage I've ever seen on a galvy bulhead involved   
a flat panel on what I think was a SII bulkhead.  It was what I call a   
"waffle"  similar to what I have on the flat panel next to the license   
plate on my volvo 740:  a shallow bow in a flat penel that can be popped   
in or out.  I've never seen one or heard first hand (emphasis on the   
first hand bit) about one warped so badly there was a structural issue.   
 Timm Cooper has done a few and I've never heard him speak of warpage   
being anything more than an irritant.

Simon Harding

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This message and any attachments to it are   
intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or   
confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are   
not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any   
attachments to it, or to take any action based on them.  If you have   
received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone   
at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of   
this message.

Simon J. Harding
Attorney at Law
Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C.
503.223.4131
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:27:59 -0400
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

Welcome, Joe.
The best thing about the Rover is it's already set up for trail use.
Admittedly, there are a few things one can do to improve performance,
but by and large you really don't need to do much.
Judging by your post it seems that you have a sensible approach to
off-roading vehicles. My advice to you would be to look for a good
condition 109 pickup or soft top, install parabolic springs and assess
the capabilities for a year or so before doing any major surgery. You
may just be surprised at what it'll do.
There aren't many options for range rover coilsprung chassis bits. Old
Man Emu and a couple others make taller springs, but taller shock mounts
and longer travel shocks are not off the shelf items and there are
serious driveline issues involved in these modifications. The only
advantage is the disc brakes and stronger diffs on the axles, so maybe
you would want to rework the axle case to take a leaf spring.
As to gearing, there are available low-low transfer cases that give rock
crawling ratios for the Series transmissions.
All in all, it isn't really necessary to build up a wild and extreme
Series truck. They get by just fine as they are thank you very much.
- -- 
Bill Adams
Motion Graphics/3D Design Director
IBB Broadcast Design Center, Washington DC
[email-masked]
202-205-9638

1966 Land Rover 2A 109SW Diesel
1981 Honda GoldWing Standard
1963 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:13:50 -0400
From: David G Russell <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Wiring

On 27/6/01 at 21:05, [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List
DIGEST * * * *) wrote:

> http://www.painlesswiring.com/ I love their products.  I wish I had
> just purchased their harness instead of building my own.  I did get 2
> of their 7 circut waterproof fuse blocks and I love em. If you are
> thinking about redoing a system and don't care about being
> concourse(sp) correct I would highly recomend their stuff.

Very nice.

2 questions: 
    Do they come with any sort of protection for the wires
    or are you on your own?
    Has anyone ever used them for re-wiring a Series Truck?

Please Note: I have changed ISP's and have a new personal e-mail
address, listed above. I suspect the old one will no longer be in
service by late July.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:29:04 -0400
From: David G Russell <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: re: Lucas strikes again!!

But the enclosed Bentley did very well. Must've been like a steam bath
in there.

> my dad a 1967? triumph TR3A,

Try again. (1957/8-1960/1)

http://www.vtr.org/TR3/TR3-production.html

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:26:33 -0400
From: "Matthew Wilson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: galvied bulkheads...where?

Greetings Roverphiles,
  With all this talk of galvanizing these things, does anyone know a shop in
upstate NY that will do this?  Driving to MA, CT or VT is not out of the
question either.  Reason being I'm just starting the process of welding in
the patch panels, not something I'll want to do again in the near future...
Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:36:59 -0700
From: "Ben Mitchell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: galvie / paint

I would strongly encourage anyone who has his bulkhead galvanized to just
leave it bare.

I had mine done a few months ago and in spite of a good etching prep the
paint isn't very well adhered.  I'm afraid it's going to look quite spotty
in a few years.

On the galvanizing front, it worked quite nicely - no significant warpage to
speak of.  The only problems I had were that there are lots of places for
the zinc to puddle, and so there was some grinding to be done to clean it
up.  Also, all the "tubes" (bolt holes, front vent flap mount holes, etc)
filled up with zinc and they were a cast iron b!+(# to clean out.

- -Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of William J. Rice
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:42 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: LRO: Re: galvie / paint
>
>
> My newly-galv'd bulkhead is bare, and I love it.  I think it looks nice,
> esp. since the t-piece is also galv'd so they kind of set each other off.
>  I left the galv'd breakfast bare and am considering painting it--it
> doesn't look so hot.
>
> bill
>
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 02:14:55 -0400 "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
> writes:
> > Russ
> > They were left bare. I probably have looked at more than 2
> > but with paint unless I asked I wouldn't realize they had been
> > galvanized. The only thing really noticeable is the door post
> > and top of the bulkhead below the window from outside.
> > Inside is a different story.
> > Bill Fishel
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Russ Wilson <[email-masked]>
> > > To: [email-masked]
> > > Subject: Re: LRO: Re: galvie / paint
> > > Date: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 12:11 PM
> > >
> > > Were they left "bare" or painted?
> > >
> > > >Russ
> > > >I've seen 2 Rovers with galvanized bulkheads and they
> > > >both made me jealous I didn't do mine when I had the
> > > >chance.
> > > >Bill Fishel
> >

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:59:21 -0400
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Painless Wiring & light ?

That's right where I located it.  I mounted it to the steering column hole
cover plate.  I installed 4 rivnuts to replace the 4 rivets that held the
plate in place, and then mounted the fuse box to the plate with the relay
oriented toward the driver.  A hole and grommet in the center of the plate
passes the painless circuit-boss wire loom to the engine side of the
bulkhead, where it splits to the soap-box (original harness location) and
then the accessory circuits come back to the interior at the main harness
grommet and on to the switch box.  I may obtain another dash cover (the one
that hides the defroster hoses) and locate it over the fuse box right next
to the one covering the defroster hoses. But then I like the looks of the
fuse box, so why not leave it visible...

JT/ric

Did you mount this in the space in front of the passenger?  Or behind the
gauges?  I was thinking about the blank space infront of the passanger, but
decided I wanted a glove box, so mounted it in the engine compartment.  I do
think that for the next project I will be mounting it inside.  Not that many
wires run straight from the fuse block into the engine compartment.
I just got done making an overhead console that will hold my radio, cb, and
off road light switches.  Still plenty of room inside the thing, think it
would be the perfect place to 'hide' the fuses.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:45:06 -0400
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: galvie / paint

...and do tell, Ben, how exactly did you clean out the scuttle vent hinge
holes?  I can't get a drill near them!  I'm leaving mine bare on the inside
but painting it on the outside...no warping here either (unless you count
that the operator at the galv. yard dropped a 60 ft high voltage
transmission tower into the vat "ON TOP" of my bulkhead!  ...that did take a
bit-o-bending, what I call a "forming adjustment", to correct...and they
didn't charge me for that dip!

JT/ric

On the galvanizing front, it worked quite nicely - no significant warpage to
speak of.  The only problems I had were that there are lots of places for
the zinc to puddle, and so there was some grinding to be done to clean it
up.  Also, all the "tubes" (bolt holes, front vent flap mount holes, etc)
filled up with zinc and they were a cast iron b!+(# to clean out.

- -Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:21:49 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Wiring

> Very nice.
>
> 2 questions:
>     Do they come with any sort of protection for the wires
>     or are you on your own?
>     Has anyone ever used them for re-wiring a Series Truck?
>
> Please Note: I have changed ISP's and have a new personal e-mail
> address, listed above. I suspect the old one will no longer be in
> service by late July.
>

Not sure what you mean by "protection for the wires"
The wires go into the fuse block and are embedded at that end in the same
waterproofing that the rest of the block is in.  The wires are insulated for
their entire length.  Each fuse has a seperate 12g wire maybe 5' long, but
the bundle of wires is loose, no outer armour or anything.

I used 2 of the waterproof blocks and spools of 12 gauge wire to rewire my
IIa 88.  I spent a great deal of time creating a diagram of how I wanted
things to run, added seperate circiuts for all of my lights, cooling fan,
and radios.
I wish I had gotten some GM style harnes connectors. I didn't create
seperate harnesses, but instead wired one huge thing.  It works, but it's
pretty much going to be a real PITA if I need to remove it.  Unplug rear
turn signal and that wire runs forward and up into the dash.
I think next time I do this I will make a rear harness, dash harnes, engine
harness.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:42:18 -0700
From: "Ben Mitchell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: galvie / paint

I bought a Dremel tool with the flex shaft attachment.

Only way I could find to do it.

- -Ben

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
> Behalf Of Tackley, John
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:45 AM
> To: [email-masked]'
> Subject: RE: LRO: Re: galvie / paint
> 
> 
> ...and do tell, Ben, how exactly did you clean out the scuttle vent hinge
> holes?  I can't get a drill near them!  I'm leaving mine bare on 
> the inside
> but painting it on the outside...no warping here either (unless you count
> that the operator at the galv. yard dropped a 60 ft high voltage
> transmission tower into the vat "ON TOP" of my bulkhead!  ...that 
> did take a
> bit-o-bending, what I call a "forming adjustment", to correct...and they
> didn't charge me for that dip!
> 
> JT/ric
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> On the galvanizing front, it worked quite nicely - no significant 
> warpage to
> speak of.  The only problems I had were that there are lots of places for
> the zinc to puddle, and so there was some grinding to be done to clean it
> up.  Also, all the "tubes" (bolt holes, front vent flap mount holes, etc)
> filled up with zinc and they were a cast iron b!+(# to clean out.
> 
> -Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:45:57 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

Hey Joe, sounds like a nice Scout you have.  I almost bought one a few weeks 
ago.  As to your Rover project, you wont be able to put the lightweight front 
clip on the 109 without some very very very serious custom fab work.  the 
lightweight body is narrower than the regular series trucks, designed to be 
carried two across in the british military cargo plane of the day.  what do 
you mean by "lighten" the rear tub?  if you wish to go to coil springs and 
that drivetrain, look at www.designa-chassis.co.uk.   if you want to do that 
drivetrain swap, i suggest you buy a defender 110 frame, and bolt the series 
body to it.  the body (overall) length is the same between the two, but the 
wheel base is an inch longer.  on a stock 109, the axle is about 1 to 1.5 
inches forward from the center of the rear wheel well.  using a 110 frame 
would deal with this and would be cheaper (and easier) in the long run, as 
110s came stock with the drivetrain and axles you are pursueing.  once again, 
welcome to the list, and dont be overwhelmed by the amount of emails in your 
box everyday!

adam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:01:23 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

bill, how do you mean there arent very many range rover suspension compaines? 
here is a list:

www.rockware.net
www.safarigard.com
www.rovertym.com
www.neversummeroffroad.com
etc, etc, etc
for a good idea of what can be done to the coil suspension on rovers, see 
www.d-90.com

adam

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:11:46 -0600
From: Joseph S Dufresne <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: New Guy or All about Joe

- --=====================_2948334==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

But range rovers look like a station wagon, not a truck!
`

At 09:40 AM 6/28/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>This is too "out there".  Just buy a Range Rover it has coils already. and
>the Range Rover tcase/axles.
>
>
>on rovers, here's what I think I want:
>
>109"
>light weight front clip
>tub "lightened"
>range rover 5spd/tcase/axles
>coils
>sd33 or sd22 diesel
>
>this would be a trail rig, but still street legal, is this a good project,
>or too "out there"?

Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950; 
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter  Recruitment officer for Smoking 
Scouts.

"It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand"

- --=====================_2948334==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
But range rovers look like a station wagon, not a truck!<br>
`<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><br><br>
At 09:40 AM 6/28/2001 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>This is too &quot;out
there&quot;.&nbsp; Just buy a Range Rover it has coils already. and<br>
the Range Rover tcase/axles.<br><br>
<br>
on rovers, here's what I think I want:<br><br>
109&quot;<br>
light weight front clip<br>
tub &quot;lightened&quot;<br>
range rover 5spd/tcase/axles<br>
coils<br>
sd33 or sd22 diesel<br><br>
this would be a trail rig, but still street legal, is this a good
project,<br>
or too &quot;out there&quot;?</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
Joe Dufresne, [email-masked]; ICQ# 25751950;
<a href="http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/" eudora="autourl"><font color="#0000FF"><u>http://tigger.tmcom.com/~josad/</a></u></font>
<br>
78 SSII; Smoking Scouts, Rocky Mtn chapter&nbsp; Recruitment officer for Smoking Scouts. <br><br>
&quot;It's a farm implement thing, you wouldn't understand&quot;<br><br>
<br>
</html>

- --=====================_2948334==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:23:23 -0400
From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: New Guy or All about Joe

I repeat, there aren't many companies making suspension improvement
parts for Range Rovers and Defenders. OME and Safari Guard are about it.
Anything else is a one-off, that is, a couple guys do some mods to ONE
truck and call themselves a company that supplies suspension mods. The
demand for suspension modification is very limited, and trying to make a
go of supplying parts is very difficult. All of them assume that you are
made of money because you own a Defender or Rangie and charge for their
sevices accordingly. These trucks come from the factory set up very well
for 98 percent of the buying public, so margin has to be quite fat in
order to turn a profit on parts they sell. Imagine the amount of time
these people have to spend on the phone with customers addressing
various installation, warranty and repair issues. I should think that
even with the prices they charge, they don't really make all that much
on this kind of enterprise.
Our friend Joe on the other hand should experience the joy and travail
of Series truck ownership before sinking a pile of money/time/effort
into a total custom. Parabolics and lockers will get you just about
anywhere.
I'd put my 109 safari diesel up against a V8 90 in the mud any day.
Those things get stuck where the 109 floats on through. I don't know
why. You figure it out. OK, I couldn't keep up on a trail in Moab, but I
bet I'd still get through (with a bit of prudent winching).
- -- 
Bill Adams
3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
International Broadcasting Bureau
Washington, D.C.
202-205-9638
[email-masked]

'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel
'81 GoldWing
'69 Le Sabre Convertible
'63 Pearson Vanguard
"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching"

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #421
**********************************************

---

From: David G Russell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:37:51 -0400

> Not sure what you mean by "protection for the wires"

Sorry about that.

> The wires go into the fuse block and are embedded at that end in the
> same waterproofing that the rest of the block is in.  The wires are
> insulated for their entire length.  Each fuse has a seperate 12g wire
> maybe 5' long, but the bundle of wires is loose, no outer armour or
> anything.

That's what I was looking for. I imagine it's impractical for them to
provide any outer armour as each install will be different.

> I used 2 of the waterproof blocks and spools of 12 gauge wire to
> rewire my IIa 88.  I spent a great deal of time creating a diagram of
> how I wanted things to run, added seperate circiuts for all of my
> lights, cooling fan, and radios. I wish I had gotten some GM style
> harnes connectors. I didn't create seperate harnesses, but instead
> wired one huge thing.  It works, but it's pretty much going to be a
> real PITA if I need to remove it.  Unplug rear turn signal and that
> wire runs forward and up into the dash. I think next time I do this I
> will make a rear harness, dash harnes, engine harness.

Thanks--that's valuable info!

-David

---

From: Matt and Ann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:59:54 -0400

There is a shop in Utica that does galvanizing of parts, I believe its
called O E Hubble or somtheing like that. Look in the Utica area telephone
book under "galvanizing". If you can't find the # email me and I'll look it
up, I was looking at it a couple days ago.

Matt Nelson
Oneonta NY