Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #409

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:30:26 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, June 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 409

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:48:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Land Rover Price in 1959?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Faure, Marin wrote:

> 1950s, but in 1973, a US-spec Series III Hardtop Deluxe cost about
> $4,200.  Plus tax, shipping, etc.  At that time, a Toyota Land Cruiser 

http://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.invoice.html  For a 1973 model.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:48:18 -0400
From: "Lee Jones" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: seeking opinions on paint schemes

All White

Lee

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Rich & Lori Williams
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:29 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes

Okay, this really isn't that big of a deal but I needed to kill a few
minutes so I am throwing this out to the list to get people's opinions on
paint schemes.

We're talking about a 1960 Series II 109 Station Wagon.  The truck was
originally Marine Blue and after much consideration during this restoration
I have decided to change it's body color to Bronze Green, including the side
panels rear of the middle doors.  Well, it may not be a SII color (from what
I have been able to tell save for models exported to countries other than
the USA) but at least it is a Series color.

I am using Rover White (apparently the earliest of the LR "light" colors)
for the roof and wheels.  The question is regarding the roof, some family
members are in favor of painting just the sun shield white with the rest of
the top painted body color and others want the entire roof white.  We've
seen Series trucks painted both ways and now have a divided household.  Was
there any specific reason behind the 2 different schemes?

And most importantly, what are your votes?  Chime in and settle this family
dilemma (hey, it could be worse).  I'll hold my opinion (vote) until a
decision has been made.

Thanks everyone.

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:52:30 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

I've got a great book here - a Brooklands Books collection of road tests of 
the SII and SIIa from various magazines around the world. Here are a few 
prices:

Mechanix Illustrated, 1958
88 from $3,150
"deluxe versions go as high as $3,600 with the long chassis....can be had 
with a diesel for $400 or $500 more"

Car Life, 1959
88 Station Wagon: $3,160

Sports Car Illustrated, 1961
109 Station Wagon: $3880 (West Coast)
Heater, oil/water gauge, hand throttle, second windshield wiper brought the 
total to $4095
Also quotes Land Cruiser at $3365, 101" Jeep about $2500

Canada Track and Traffic, 1961
88 Station Wagon $3195 Cdn
spare wheel carrier on hood: $6
water/oil gauge: $32.50
extra wiper: $19.25
hand throttle: $4.80
fresh air heater: $84
winch: $489.00
150' of 5/16 steel cable: $41.15
insulated interior trim: $105 truck cab, $85.00 hard top

According to the Consumer Price Index calculator 
(http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html), the 1959 price of $3160 for 
an 88 Station Wagon works out to $18,091 in 1999 dollars. Using an 
estimated value for 2001 found at 
http://minneapolisfed.org/economy/calc/hist1913.html, the price comes to 
$19,383. Even that expensive 109 at $4095 in 1961 comes out to $25,118. 
According to the Land Rover website, the Disco starts at $33,995 this year.

Keith Tanner
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:56:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Rich & Lori Williams wrote:

> We're talking about a 1960 Series II 109 Station Wagon.  T
> 
> And most importantly, what are your votes?  Chime in and settle this family
> dilemma (hey, it could be worse).  I'll hold my opinion (vote) until a
> decision has been made.

109 wagons had a body coloured roof and a white sunsheet.  There is a blue
(well, was until the chap started to take the paint off to repaint it)
1960 109 SW about a thousand yards north of me.  Roof is/was blue,
sunsheet white.

Rgds,

Dixon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:58:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Rich & Lori Williams wrote:

:And most importantly, what are your votes?  Chime in and settle this family
:dilemma (hey, it could be worse).  I'll hold my opinion (vote) until a
:decision has been made.
:

I've got a 63 IIA 109 STation wagon.  It's green, everything, wheels,
hub caps, only the sun sheet is white..  If I'd done the painting, I'd
have done the whole roof panel in white, but it doesn't really bother
me.  I do like the wheels body color, though.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:44:14 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Rain-X, the final step...

> :The Rain-X people make a specific product for anti-fogging - I haven't
tried
> :it though.
> It doesn't work.

I beg to differ!
The problem is that the fog has to go somewhere, so when you remove the path
of least resistance, the windows, by putting on Fog-X, it gathers on the
headliner (wot's that?!?!?!?), panels, etc. The whole truck sweats - but not
the wndows! I used it when my defroster was on the blink, and I wasn't that
inclined to fix it since the "X" worked so well.

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:59:09 -0600
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Land Rover Price in 1959? REDUX

At 16:30 13/06/01 -0700, Rich & Lori Williams, wrote

>The base price for an 88 SW w/ Tropical Roof is $2,435 for petrol, $2,750
>for diesel.
>
>Add $32.05 per heater.
>Add $4.20 for speedo w/ trip meter (all other instruments listed as
>"standard")
>One spare is "standard"
>Add $30.00 for extra spare tire
>Add $3.75 for bonnet spare carrier
>Add $3.28 per flyscreen
>Deluxe interior trim "standard"
>Rear seats "standard"
>Add $1.50 for locking fuel cap
>
>All for a grand total of $2,543.06 not including dealer fees, taxes,
>license, etc...

Thanks for that Rich, and thanks to all you others who also came up with 
prices.  The above figures match the "options" that were installed on my 
machine when it was delivered to the Port of Vancouver in November 1959 for 
delivery to Shell Oil in Alberta.

By the way, the dash vent flyscreens at $3.28ea are a bit of a curiosity in 
my truck.  I found them wrapped in oiled canvas complete with securing 
screws and seemingly untouched from the day they were put behind the right 
hand door panel, about three years after I acquired the vehicle.  They look 
brand new and no, I haven't got around to installing them.

Anyway, to get back to the original query.  I took the Total Price as 
supplied by Rich and ran it through 
http://eh.net/ehresources/howmuch/dollarq.php

which gives $15048.63 in 2000 dollars.

Using the Canadian sites noted by Keith I get 14,559 in 99 dollars which is 
remarkably close.

What I have not figured out, and I simply don't have the interest or 
ability to pursue, is how currency fluctuations between Canada and the 
United States would have affected the inflated prices.  There was a time, 
hard to believe, when the Can$ was worth much more than the 
Greenback.  These days it's down around the level of the Somali Shilling.

So the bottom line is that the Series II was an expensive little beast in 
its time and while not at the same price point in inflated dollars today, 
could fairly be said to have been the Disco of its day.

One final point.  In Keith's note about prices the winch is listed at some 
490$  That is something like 2800 to 3000$ today.  A hell of a price at any 
time.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:30:42 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: front t-case output seal.

Just a word in my own defense.  I knew immediately with what I was
dealing when the 1/2 and 5/16 didn't fit.  However, at the risk of
incurring more "wrong tool for the job" ire, I will admit that in 6 yrs.
of Mrs. Merdle ownership I've yet to encounter a bolt that won't yield
(w/o damage) to either SAE or Metric tools.  I carry both, though maybe I
should get around to looking for some Whitworth ones--it's not like I
plan on getting rid of this thing anytime soon and maybe I should invest
in some ww tools I'll be able to use for the next 30 years or so.

bill

On Wed, 13 Jun 01 15:04:15 -0700 TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
writes:
> >"Those nuts ain't 1/2 and they ain't 9/16"....."  This very quote 
> could be
> >heard coming from my garage last week as well!
> 
> Welcome to BSF
> 
> TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
> Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
> [email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
>                               and more
> 
> http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:27:29 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:18 -1000 "Peter Ogilvie"
<[email-masked]> writes:

 Love the metal dash on an old Bug.  What a joy 
> it used 
> to be to lift the hood and actually see an engine.  

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you stopped referring
to bugs after sentence one.

bill

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:34:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, William J. Rice wrote:

:
:On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:47:18 -1000 "Peter Ogilvie"
:<[email-masked]> writes:
:
: Love the metal dash on an old Bug.  What a joy
:> it used
:> to be to lift the hood and actually see an engine.
:
:I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you stopped referring
:to bugs after sentence one.

Most of the bug owners I know call the bit where you put the engine the
hood, and the bit where you find the spare the trunk, even though they're on
the wrong ends of the car.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:33:06 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Engine/Trans Swap 

> Thanks.  I wrote part of it a while back and
> never got around to killing the bugs.  So I
> finally completed it last month - great thing
> about being on "the bench" is I get to do
> some fun stuff - unlike the COBOL I have
> been writing for the past six months.

Tim,can you add the link here again

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:55:18 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

Keith Tanner wrote:
 
> Sports Car Illustrated, 1961
> 109 Station Wagon: $3880 (West Coast)

A 109" listed in Sports Car Illustrated, musta bin a typo :-{>}

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:01:09 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

> On another note, the write up says this: "The Land Rover, like the
American
> Jeep, came into prominence in WWII. After the war, Rover introduced a
> civilian line of land Rovers that ...".
>
> I thought that '48 was the first year they were made,

It was.  Interestingly I have seen this error a number of times.  Land
Rover..first developed for use in the desert by the British for WWII.
Where in the world did this whole thing begin I wonder.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:53:30 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

> A 109" listed in Sports Car Illustrated, musta bin a typo :-{>}
> 
Nah, they used em to tow the sports car to the track

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:10:36 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness

In article <A0669F3E0A6B3448A962DC6141E6C7A6B232F3@mis1>, John Tackley wrote:
> Heard a cute ad this AM on the radio for a pub here in Richmond, Va:
> 
> The owner of this fine establishment comes on, and in his genuine, best
> Cockney accent says:
> 
> "Penny Lane Bri-ish Pub...A bit of auffentic Bri-ish food; Bangers and Mash,
> roight, Shepards Pie, Pasties", roight, ... 
> 
> (yadda yadda...here comes the cute part) 
> 
> "Many Bri-ish beer styles on tap, roight, Bitters, Ales, Stouts, well over a
> dozen in aull, roight, includin' 6 Bri-ish, 2 Scau-ish, 2 Irish and ... 
> ...2 American beers for the designated drivers! Roight!"
>
Sounds excellent!

 Would you recommend a visit to Richmond Virginia to tourists from Richmond 
Surrey?
 I quite fancy visiting some Civil War (War between the States?) Sites, and I 
would value a local opinion.
 
 Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:32:38 -0700
From: John Wang <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Missing Front Drive Shaft

>:So, let's say worst case scenario. . or maybe it actually not that
>:bad. . nursing a sick range rover back to health . . can't be that
>:bad right?   Let's assume it's the worst care scenario who much
>
>Heh.  Lots.  As much, or more, than you paid for it.  I bet you need a
>transfer case, or a bunch of front end work.  A seller who doesn't tell you
>these things should be assumed to be hiding lots more.  (Unless they didn't
>know about them, which is possible.)  Of course, if you do all the work
>yourself, it may not be a huge fortune, and you'll certainly learn lots
>about the truck.

Well. . so the can of worms has been opened.. guess it's time for
me to dig in. . and enjoy.  I'm not exactly too happy about the whole
situation because as I've explained to the seller that it doesn't matter 
how much I paid for the car, whether it's $8k or $500 I expect to
get what I paid for.  The advertisement said a 4x4 Range Rover. . .
i thought all RRs are 4x4. . and that's what i want. . but. . 

I actually wanted a Series LR, but they're hard to find and quite 
expensive. . . and that RR looked like the right candidate. .lol. .

Anyway I'm glad this LRO-list is around cuz I'll probably be asking
quite a few questions from now on. . . Beside the manuals, any tools
I should get to start with?

Thanks

JohnWang

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:32:39 -0700
From: John Wang <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Missing Front Drive Shaft

>John, who did you buy this from?
>
>More the point, was there any representation of operability made? Honestly,
>with what it's going to cost you to put this beast back together I'd go
>find me the previous owner and do some damage to his wallet. Admittedly
>3250 isn't a ton of money for this car (just paid ~6K for one and thought
>myself well treated) but this is going to be pricey...
>
>I have a full front axle from a 90 Range Rover in my parts bin...where are
>you?

Alan, I bought it through some guy on the north western part of LA county.
The car was advertised as a 89 4x4 RR.... turn out to be a 88. .. 
i don't mind. . . missing the front drive shaft. . yes i do mind.
The sunroof doesn't work, some seat switches doesn't work. . . oil leaks 
around the engine, transmission, axle. . . all seems fixable and normal 
according to what i read on rangerover.net.    

I think the guy may be having financial problems and he said he already
spend the money to make payment on his mortgage.  <sigh>. . . he offered
to pay for putting the car back on the recycler and said i should be able
to sell the car for what i paid for. . . probably true.. but i really don't
want to deal with the hassle of selling a car and I don't know what I can 
say if people call and ask why I am selling. . . "Well. . let's see.. I
have it for a few days. . . the previous owner didn't tell me about the
missing front drive shaft.. btw, the odometer is a replacement unit. . .
exhaust system seems to have been modified. . engine run good though,
starts right up... "  donno. . just doesn't sound all that appealing. . .
anyway I'm taking the car to be smogged tomorrow. . .<sigh>

I'm located in the greater Los Angeles area.  Looking at the car. .. i 
think I am going to need the U-joints? as well as the drive shaft . . .
R u within drivable distance? 

JohnWang

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:38:52 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness

Paul wrote:
> Civil War 

Gotta be the best example of a contradiction in terms ever! Much better
than military intelligence or good government.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 04:00:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:

>  Would you recommend a visit to Richmond Virginia to tourists from Richmond
> Surrey?
>  I quite fancy visiting some Civil War (War between the States?) Sites, and I
> would value a local opinion.
>
>  Paul
>

Sometimes also referred to as the War of Northern Aggression...

					warren

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:38:29 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes

Re: BG:

It was most certainly a Series II colour! Miss Jessica is Marine Blue now,
but started life as Bronze Green  (and will be so again someday when i get
to a complete overhaul).

Re: Dark roof panel:

Not authentic, and very warm.....BG absorbs a lot more heat than Limesone.
You're still going to get absorption even though the sunsheet is there -
and typically the sunsheets were left unpainted in inay case.

So, polish the sunsheet and spray it with clear acrylic, then paint the
roof the ight colour.

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:49:49 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Missing Front Drive Shaft

 Beside the manuals, any tools
I should get to start with?

OOOOoooo tool junkie question!

Personally I have a garage (and basement, and esk) full, but at a minimum
I'd recommend good sets of 1/2" and 3/8" drive sockets in metric and inch
sizes. Good screwdrivers (throw away the old Stanley ones you got from yer
Dad) and the like are handy to have, mostly the #2 and #3 Phillips.

A good multimeter and a test lamp is an essential for tracking down the
inevitable wiring problems, along with at least a basic good soldering kit
(not a Radio Shack iron - they're useless - Weller is decent....).

Vise-Grips in a few sizes are good to have for the inevitable "bastard
won't come off" scenarios, and a hefty pair of needlenose and some dikes
for cotter pins and the like. Standard pliers too....

This is just a top-end short list - others will come to mind I'm sure...

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:55:45 +0100
From: Mick Forster <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Guinness (for Frank, the Old Fart)

Frank Elson wrote:
> 
> Alex writes: >>>OK guys, what's the 'odd' thing about serving Newkie Brown?
> >
> > First use of the clear bottle (reputed to "ruin" the beer, but I haven't
> > noticed)? Oldest brewing site in the UK, allegedly? Gawrsh, I don't
> know....<<<
> 
> to enjoy a pint of Newkie Brown properly you should have a pint bottle and a
> half pint glass. Then you keep topping up the half pint as you drink, to
> keep the head on it. Otherwise it disappears and looks flat - still tastes
> just as good tho.

Reminds me when I first had Newkie Brown, the landlord could only get it
in half-pint bottles so he used to pour 2 at once into a straight pint
glass without it overflowing, quite skilled he was. Occasionaly one of
the half pint bottles was Guinness, black & tan we used to call it.

>  Seems weird the first few times as around here we think of half-pint
> glasses as for women. You don't say that in Geordieland tho'

I get some funny looks now when I ask for a pint glass, but I found when
I was younger, the beer didn't stay in the glass long enough to loose
its head, I just lost mine. I used to prefer a dimple glass with a
handle on as well but you don't see them anymore.

> you also write: 'up Alan Shearer' to which I reply, that rat deserted
> Blackburn Rovers so 'right up' him!

Who's he then? One of those blokes what kick a bag a wind about on a
Saturday instead of doing some'at useful like a Landy oil change/top-up.

All the best 
Mick Forster
Series III LWB Safari 2.25 petrol/LPG 1973
Series IIa SWB 2.25 petrol 1962
Series IIa SWB electric one day!!
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/gascon/gas.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 05:55:01 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Missing Front Drive Shaft

R u within drivable distance?

JohnWang

I wish - this sounds like fun...

I'm in the Boston, Massachusetts area.

In short, the guy is a slimeball and screwed you royally. THis is not good.

In looking at your list, the oil leaks are no nightmare - if they're
moderate it's just the standard old drips all of them have. Coolant leaks
are not allowed - that is an aluminum-block V8 and can easily get
overheated and destroyed. Make sure that you keep the coolant up...

Sunroof is no nightmare to fix - just diagnostic work wit h a test meter.
The seat switches - there's a very good illustrated procedure on how to fix
those on a Range Rover site...can't remember which one but do a search on
Range Rover seat switches and you'll see it.

Good luck - you're going to need it.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:10:48 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: True Brits (was Guiness)

>which is why
>there are only a handful of surnames in Wales :-)>

Yes, but they spent the rest of the time knitting vowels....just to make
sure the handful of surnames that they DID have were completely
unpronounceable to the enemy...

               aj"8*)"r

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:31:29 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness/ old wars

In article 
<[email-masked]>,  
wrote:
> Sometimes also referred to as the War of Northern Aggression...
>
I did hear it called that on a visit to Georgia, but not in Boston 
where they wanted to go on about a tea party. 

 They didn`t want to talk about a bonfire party the Royal Navy had in 
Washington around about 1812...
 
 "Civil" wars are IMHO the saddest of all in that they more often tear 
families apart. That was also true of the wars between the British 
Empire and the USA.
 
 Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:57:43 +0100
From: Paul <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness/ old wars

In article <[email-masked]>, Paul wrote:
> a bonfire party the Royal Navy had in 
> Washington around about 1812...
>
Correction..1814

Paul

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:14:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Rowe" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Hub Seal, differences?

Can someone tell me the difference between the two oil seals RTC3510 and RTC3511
I know one is listed as from Oct 1980 vehicles and onward.
Mainly, do they have the same ID and OD?
Thanks

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
        in places even more inaccessible

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:06:09 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness/ old wars

Paul wrote:
 
>  "Civil" wars are IMHO the saddest of all in that they more often tear
> families apart. That was also true of the wars between the British
> Empire and the USA.

Or, for that matter, between the British and ANY of their former
colonies.

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:45:12 -0400
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: True Brits (was Guiness)

>which is why
>there are only a handful of surnames in Wales :-)>

Ahhh, I now see the similarities between Wales and West Virginia...it seems
more logical where from WV derived its name(Wales  lies to the 'west',)and
reputation (similar lack of surnames)...

;->)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:57:43 -0400
From: "Scott Wickham Jr." <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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In July of 1969, after a three month wait, I paid $3749. That was the number
on the check, so that includes tax, license, dealer prep,

  I think I'd of had a problem buying a vehicle in '69.  Ok, first off, I
wasn't born for another year, second, with all the muscle cars around I
would have had to at least test drove a Hemi or 2.  Who knows, I might have
ended up with a LR anyway but, unlikely.  More like a '69.5 Road Runner with
the 440 6-pack, fiberglass lift off hood (bonnet), no wait, a Shelby
Mustang, no a GTO, or a 302 Camaro with dual clutch and disc's all around.
See, hard decisions ;)
  It would be a real treat to have test drove a NEW '69 Rover off the lot
just to see what it's really supposed to be like.  I'd have to say the
closest I've come to that was driving a '57 SI pickup that was an unrestored
beauty.  A guy that used to be in our club had it and we would inspect it
for him at our garage.  It's for sale by the way, not sure how much.
    Did anybody else read the article in the OVLR newsletter a couple months
ago that was reprinted from an old car mag?  David O'Kane I think was the
author, something like that.  He worked for a LR dealer for awhile and told
some good stories.  Like his boss putting it in low box and pushing the Alfa
out into traffic, or how he'd show people what the Rover could do on a test
drive, good stuff.

Scooter

- ---
Outgoing mail is bug free, carry on!
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>In July of 1969, after a three month wait, I paid $3749. That was =
the=20
number on the check, so that includes tax, license, dealer prep, </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D210024313-14062001><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D3>&nbsp;=20
I think I'd of had a problem buying a vehicle in '69.&nbsp; Ok, first =
off, I=20
wasn't born for another year, second, with all the muscle cars around I =
would=20
have had to at least test drove a Hemi or 2.&nbsp; Who knows, I might =
have ended=20
up with a LR anyway but, unlikely.&nbsp; More like a '69.5 Road Runner =
with the=20
440 6-pack, fiberglass lift off hood (bonnet), no wait, a Shelby =
Mustang, no a=20
GTO, or a 302 Camaro with dual clutch and disc's all around.&nbsp; See, =
hard=20
decisions ;)&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D210024313-14062001><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D3>&nbsp;=20
It would be a real treat to have test drove a NEW '69 Rover off the lot =
just to=20
see what it's really supposed to be like.&nbsp; I'd have to say the =
closest I've=20
come to that was driving a '57 SI pickup that was an unrestored =
beauty.&nbsp; A=20
guy that used to be in our club had it and we would inspect it for him =
at our=20
garage.&nbsp; It's for sale by the way, not sure how =
much.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D210024313-14062001><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D3>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Did anybody else read the article in the =
OVLR=20
newsletter a couple months ago that was reprinted from an old car =
mag?&nbsp;=20
David O'Kane I think was the author, something like that.&nbsp; He =
worked for a=20
LR dealer for awhile and told some good stories.&nbsp; Like his boss =
putting it=20
in low box and pushing the Alfa out into traffic, or how he'd show =
people what=20
the Rover could do on a test drive, good stuff.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D210024313-14062001><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =

size=3D3></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D210024313-14062001><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial =
size=3D3>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Scooter</FONT> </P></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:13:21 -0400
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Hub Seal, differences?

Tom asked:

Can someone tell me the difference between the two oil seals RTC3510 and
RTC3511
I know one is listed as from Oct 1980 vehicles and onward.
Mainly, do they have the same ID and OD?
Thanks

I am not sure about the diff between these 2 #s, but RTC3510G is the older
leather seal #, which, if your distance piece is a bit scored, does a better
job of sealing than the rubber.  The leather swells with oil and doesn't
mind the scoring on the distance piece.  A rubber seal is damaged in short
order by the same scoring.
Choices...either replace the scored distance piece and use a new rubber or
leather seal, or just retain the scored distance piece and use a leather
seal...I like and use the leather.

JT/ric

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:42:24 -0400
From: "Sergi, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Wheel Cylinders

Is there a difference between the front and wheel cylinders on a SIIA 88?
Bore of cylinder? ect.

Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:40:59 -0700
From: "Rich & Lori Williams" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: LR's in the movies again?

I just saw a trailer for Jurassic Park III.  In one of the nanosecond scene
flashes that they do these days I think I saw an 88 hard top in the
background of one of the scenes - but like I said, it was only a flash.
Stay tuned I guess...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:04:49 +0100
From: Ian Stuart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Wheel Cylinders

On Thursday 14 June 2001 15:42, you wrote:
> Is there a difference between the front and wheel cylinders on a SIIA
> 88? Bore of cylinder? ect.
Pre 80, so yes..

October 1980, the brakes were unified across all the axels (for 2.25 
engines)

- -- 
           --==**==--
Ian Stuart - EDINA, DataLibrary, University computing services.
- ---------------------------------
A man depriving some village, somewhere, of a first-class idiot
- ---------------------------------
http://lucas.ucs.ed.ac.uk/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:59:44 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Wheel Cylinders

Yes - rear is 1" - from is 1.25".

               ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:50:37 -0700
From: Tom Gross <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Land Rover Price in 1959?

In 1970 I bought a 1960 SII 109 12 passenger station wagon from a friend.
He bought it from his neighbor 4 years earlier, who had bought it new.  It
was in very good shape.  I paid $400 for it.  In 1976, after fixing the
usual broken real axle shaft, I sold it to a friend for $400.  He kept it
for a couple of years and sold it for $1200.  That 3X price increase always
irked me a little, but my friend had attained some minor notoriety as a
writer, so I suppose you'd have to figure in a fame factor.  I have a
suspicion that list member Rob Modica in Tucson may own it now, but I
haven't seen his '60 109 to confirm.  I was making around $1.75 / hr as a
cabinet maker in 1970, and I'd worked up to around $3.50 / hr in 1976.  Car
prices, both used and new, seem to have outpaced overall inflation a little.
I'd guess a cabinet maker makes around $17.50 these days, and you'd be able
to buy a nice low mile 10-year old Defender for about $4000.  Oh, wait, I
seem to have lost a zero around here someplace.

Tom Gross

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:56:56 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Hub Seal, differences?

In a message dated 6/14/01 6:17:11 AM, [email-masked] writes:

<< Can someone tell me the difference between the two oil seals RTC3510 and 
RTC3511
I know one is listed as from Oct 1980 vehicles and onward.
Mainly, do they have the same ID and OD?
Thanks

Tom Rowe >>

Tom
    I think the ID and OD are the same, I think the difference is one is a 
double lip seal and one is a single lip seal. Not positive so don't take it 
to the bank.

Bill
GBR

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:04:23 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Missing Front Drive Shaft

> Anyway I'm glad this LRO-list is around cuz I'll probably be asking
> quite a few questions from now on. . . Beside the manuals, any tools
> I should get to start with?

FYI this is the Series Rover list.  There is a coil spring list that you
will probably find more helpfull.

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:05:16 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  Guinness

> 
> Sometimes also referred to as the War of Northern Aggression...
> 
> warren

or the Southern Rebelion/Uprising
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:17:34 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: seeking opinions on paint schemes

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:28:39 -0700
From: "Rich & Lori Williams" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes

>I am using Rover White (apparently the earliest of the LR "light" colors)
for the roof and wheels.  The question is regarding the roof, some family
members are in favor of painting just the sun shield white with the rest of
the top painted body color and others want the entire roof white.  We've
seen Series trucks painted both ways and now have a divided household.  Was
there any specific reason behind the 2 different schemes?

I assume by "Rover White" you mean "Limestone," which was the "white" used 
on the Series Land Rovers.  Most of the Land Rovers I have seen, in the US, 
the UK, and in other countries, have had the top and tropical roof painted 
Limestone, regardless of the body color.  I have never seen a Series with the 
roof painted body color and the tropical roof painted Limestone, although I have 
no reason to doubt that the factory painted them that way from time to time.  And 
I'm sure there are plenty of cases where an owner or shop installed a Limestone tropical 
roof, either new or from another vehicle, onto a Series with a body-colored roof.

The purpose, of course, is to reflect light and keep the interior temperature 
a bit cooler than the outside temperature.  Theoretically, you will get more reflection 
and less interior heat if both the roof and the tropical roof are painted Limestone.  However, 
I suspect the difference will not be that great, so I would say paint it whatever combination 
looks good to you.  Personally, I like the look of the all-Limestone top, both roof panel and 
tropical roof panel.  Having a body color top and a Limestone tropical roof would look too 
"busy" to me, but it's a totally subjective thing.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:20:43 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: LR's in the movies again?

> I just saw a trailer for Jurassic Park III.  In one of the nanosecond
scene
> flashes that they do these days I think I saw an 88 hard top in the
> background of one of the scenes - but like I said, it was only a flash.

Interesting.  They filmed a bunch of it in the islands, haven't heard of
them "barrowing" any Rovers.  Maybe they shipped a few over and they are
still lying about somewhere.  Or they just did it all in a soundstage :-(

Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:27:54 -0700
From: "Rich Williams II" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: seeking opinions on paint schemes

Actually, Rover White is different than Limestone or even Ivory - it is more
white-ish than those other two.  Apparently used on some late SI and SII
trucks.  I have the paint codes and dates of use at home.  Got the
information from a LRO who used to work for Sherwin-Williams Automotive
Finishes.  He pirated their database when they lost interest in older
vintage years.  Well, at least that's what I've been told.

Rich

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: LRO: Re: seeking opinions on paint schemes

> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:28:39 -0700
> From: "Rich & Lori Williams" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: LRO: seeking opinions on paint schemes
>
> >I am using Rover White (apparently the earliest of the LR "light" colors)
> for the roof and wheels.  The question is regarding the roof, some family
> members are in favor of painting just the sun shield white with the rest
of
> the top painted body color and others want the entire roof white.  We've
> seen Series trucks painted both ways and now have a divided household.
Was
> there any specific reason behind the 2 different schemes?
>
> I assume by "Rover White" you mean "Limestone," which was the "white" used
> on the Series Land Rovers.  Most of the Land Rovers I have seen, in the
US,
> the UK, and in other countries, have had the top and tropical roof painted
> Limestone, regardless of the body color.  I have never seen a Series with
the
> roof painted body color and the tropical roof painted Limestone, although
I have
> no reason to doubt that the factory painted them that way from time to
time.  And
> I'm sure there are plenty of cases where an owner or shop installed a
Limestone tropical
> roof, either new or from another vehicle, onto a Series with a
body-colored roof.
>
> The purpose, of course, is to reflect light and keep the interior
temperature
> a bit cooler than the outside temperature.  Theoretically, you will get
more reflection
> and less interior heat if both the roof and the tropical roof are painted
Limestone.  However,
> I suspect the difference will not be that great, so I would say paint it
whatever combination
> looks good to you.  Personally, I like the look of the all-Limestone top,
both roof panel and
> tropical roof panel.  Having a body color top and a Limestone tropical
roof would look too
> "busy" to me, but it's a totally subjective thing.
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle
>

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #409
**********************************************

---

From: Peter Monk <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:37:14 -0400

Hi
An old manual I purchased some time ago had a small sheet of paper
tucked inside concerning an 88" Regular (Hard Top Deluxe) Land Rover.  I
thought I would share it with you because it contains some more data
about all the extra costs associated with buying a Land Rover in the US:

Make: Land Rover
Model: 88" Regular (Hard Top Deluxe)
Serial No: 24423472B  (according to LRFAQ this makes the car was
manufactured some time 65-67 I think)
Port of Entry: Newark, NJ
Dealer: Malone Motor Car Co of Glenshaw, 1023 Route 8, Glenshaw PA

Suggested Retail Price P.O.E.  $2,930.00  (not including local taxes)

Included with the vehicle:
Flashing Turn Signals
Rear-view fender mirror
Windshield wipers
All metal doors with external handles and sliding windows
Seats for driver and two passengers
Four-speed transmission with transfer box
Windshield ventilators
Five 600 X 16 - 6 ply tires
Tool kit, wheel brace, jack starting handle
Fully floating front and rear axles
Oil bath air cleaner
Full flow oil filter
Towing pintle
Oil Pressure and Water Temperature gauge

Suggested retail price of factory fitted extras:      My comments
Goodyear tires                 $ 30.00
Antifreeze                     $  3.50                (!!!!)
Hardtop with sliding windows   $ 45.00
S.W. Rear door                 $ 52.00
Carrier on hood                $  7.40
HD Clutch                      $  7.00
Ash tray                       $  3.00
Heater not installed           $117.00
DRIVEAWAY                      $ 25.00                (Whats this?)
                    ------------------
                             $3,219.90

Additional items fitted or costs
Warn Hubs                      $ 90.00
Hand Throttle                  $  6.20
Freight                        $110.00
Preperation                    $ 85.00               (orig. sp.)
Radio                          $ 90.00
Windshield Wiper               $ 16.75               (Maybe rear since
others included)
Flyscreens                     $ 16.50
Door handles                   $  9.00               (Where?)
                    ------------------
                Grand Total  $3,643.35

Peter