Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #406

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:42:05 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, June 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 406

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:11:19 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: gear and transfer teach...

Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:13:43 +0100
From: Ian Stuart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: RE: gear and transfer teach please AND ANOTHER Q

>This is also said to be bad because: all the shafts and gears in 
the drive-train are lubricated by the various parts splashing in the 
oil, and throwing it around. By disconnecting the front wheels from the 
front drive-train, the front drive-train does not get the lubrication 
(and coating) of oil it needs. This causes the various parts to drain 
dry, which which leads to premature wear.. and rust.

This is a commonly cited reason against freewheel hubs, but in 
actuality it's an armchair theory.  I've disassembled differentials 
and other gear components (not Land Rover) on ranches 
that had sat for, in some cases, two years without budging.  
These gearboxes were lubricated with 90 wt hypoid gear oil, 
the same stuff as used in the Land Rover drivetrain.  I will say that 
I doubt water was an issue here, but in every case, the 
gears inside were rust-free and had a thin coating of lube oil despite 
their not having been run for months or even years. So unlocking the 
hubs on a Land Rover for a while isn't going to result in dry gears and 
rusted components.  The only possible penalty will be a prematurely 
worn out upper swivel bushing if the vehicle is driven with unlocked 
hubs for a long period of time.

Now if you allow water to get inside and remain inside your driveline 
components, then yes, you're probably going to get some rust and maybe 
other problems if you don't do anything about it.

But the driveline of most Land Rovers will turn very slowly even with the 
hubs disengaged due to the turning forces passing through the heavy lube 
oil in the transfer case, so the gears in the transfer case and front differential 
will get some oil on them anyway, even with the hubs unlocked.

The only way rusting or seizing due to poor lubrication is going to be a problem 
is if you let the thing sit for ages without using it at all, in which case you'll have 
problems front AND rear.  The presence of freewheel hubs will make no difference 
in this case.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 01 14:13:42 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

>I was talking stock gearing as many people love to crow about running 75mph 
>in their stock trucks.  Just wanted to be sure that people know that, 
>'HAPPILY cruising at 75mph with stock gearing' is an oxymoron.

Well Charles was.  In a diesel at that.  It is currently layed up because 
the engine is very worn out and needing a major rebuild.  I'm not saying 
one is related to the other.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:24:45 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: gear and transfer teach please

What then, does it mean if the yellow knob will not stay down on it's own? If you hold
it down, the vehicle will stay in low 4 and drive normally. If you let go of it, it will
pop up on it's own and come out of Low 4.  Thanks for the help.
Kind regards,
Mark

"Faure, Marin" wrote:

> Behalf Of Camilo Osejo
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 2:32 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: LRO: gear and transfer teach please
>
> >Could please anyone explain how do the gear and transfer box levers work in
> a series vehicle (to be used in a sIII santana)?
>
> Pretty simple, and you've probably got lots of answers already.
>
> Long shift lever, black knob.  Main transmission,  four speeds plus
> neutral plus reverse.  Basic "H" pattern.
>
> Red knob lever.  Three positions, "I" pattern.  When the lever is
> forward, the transfer case is in high.  In the middle is neutral, and when
> the lever is back, the transfer case is in low.  When lever is pulled back
> into low, it also automatically engages four wheel drive.
>
> Yellow knob lever.  Two positions, up and down.  It is spring-loaded to
> the up position.  When the knob is up, the vehicle is in two-wheel drive.
> Pushing the knob down engages four wheel drive, high range when the
> red knob lever is forward in high range.  The yellow knob lever can be
> pushed down anytime at any speed to engage four wheel drive AS LONG
> AS the vehicle is not equipped with locking front hubs that are disengaged.
>
> To get out of four wheel drive high, the vehicle must be stopped and the red
> knob lever pulled all the way back into low range, which will release the yellow
> knob lever which will pop back up into two wheel drive.  The red knob lever
> should then be pushed back forward into the high range position.  You will then
> be back in two-wheel drive.
>
> So the only possible drive combinations are:
>
> Two wheel drive, high range.  Red knob lever forward, yellow knob lever up.
> Four wheel drive, high range.  Red knob lever forward, yellow knob lever down.
> Four wheel drive, low range.  Red knob lever back, yellow knob lever up.
>
> You must use the clutch when shifting the main transmission lever and the red knob
> lever.
>
> The Series Land Rover's gearbox arrangement is similar to the original Jeep's, only
> the Jeep has a more logical setup as I recall.  There is a lever to control high and
> low range and a lever to control two wheel drive and four wheel drive.
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:08:47 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch slave etc.

Mitch,
Your technique sounds great.  As long as Garrick's linkage isn't too worn
(and as long as he has the right pressure plate in his truck) it should
work fer sure.

Does Travis have the right pressure plate?
And, yes, I was studying French, but had the final on Thursday and am now
chin-deep in Frontier Literature.  No time even to install the box of
parts that just arrived, incl. two SHINY hub caps that will look
absolutely ridiculous if I install them.  They should come with
complimentary fuzzy dice.

bill

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:51:03 GMT [email-masked] writes:
> Jim, Allan, Bill and Garrick;
> 
> This lengthening of the pushrod trick causes me great confusion.  
> 
> First off Garrick and Travis have differant set-ups, Garrick is a 
> SII and 
> Travis has a SIIA in his SIII.  These are very similar, hovever the 
> difference 
> may be part of the problem.  I personally have a SII and have 
> pondered this 
> very same lack of clutch actuation often.  
> First lets all look and make sure that the Master cylinder is 
> providing full 
> stroke thereby putting the most fluid to the slave cylinder.  
> Secondly lets 
> look at the amount of play at the throw out mechanism.  The 
> rotational play of 
> the shaft prior to making the forks push the bearing/sleeve into 
> contact with 
> the pressure plate.  Thirdly I would sugesst that we start with the 
> piston 
> pushed back as far as possible into the slave cylinder.  Now rotate 
> the 
> throwout shaft until contact is made with the pressure plate.  
> Adjust the slave 
> cylinder rod to make contact with the outer face of the piston.  If 
> the rod is 
> to short at it longest then allow the piston to move down in the 
> slave cylinder 
> until it contacts the shaft.  Bleed the system now.  
> 
> So here we have the master cylinder set to move the most fluid, the 
> throw out 
> ready to press on the pressure plate and hydraulics ready to fill 
> the slave as 
> a result of the displacement in the master cylinder.  
> 
> Are there any faults to this practice?  please reply.
> 
> Hurricane Mitch and the Red Dinosaur
> (Bill, are you studying
> French?)
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using MHO WebMail.
> http://www.mho.net
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:22:02 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch

Sorry, I'm coming into this late, and I don't have all of the facts, but
possible reasons for a clutch to not disengage (brother...I've been there):

- -clutch disc in backwards
- -bad slave cylinder (they only cost $30 - maybe you should get a new one.
- -Bad flex hose
- -Air in the system (use a pressure bleeder!)
- -Worn or missing pilot bushing. Everybody, including me once, misses this
one. A $4 part that will cause you grief. They don't wear much, but they can
fall out during a rebuild, or if your engine came out of an automatic
originally (if you dropped in a V8), it didn't have one, and needs one.
- -Detritus in the pressure plate. I had a bolt fall down into mine once
during a clutch job, and my clutch wouldn't even *think* of disengaging.

If you feel comfortable doing it, send a boroscope up into the bell housing
(you may have to drill a hole - no worries, you can thread it and plug it
later). Watch to see if the plate moves as someone steps in the clutch.

Good luck,
Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch

> Good call Alan--I too was wondering if he replaced the pressure plate.  I
> ended up getting a "sans diaphragm" pressure plate to replace my "avec
> diaphragm" plate so I just put the old one back in.  They are DEFINITELY
> different dimensions and the "sans" model would certainly cause some
> throwout issues which would give symptoms like he's describing.
>
> And he might have play in his pins--I don't think he's who Jim was
> referring to.
>
> bill
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:10:48 -0400 "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus"
> <[email-masked]> writes:
> >
> > >His has no play in the pins.
> >
> > It was worth asking - seen this a few times.
> >
> > Second dumb question - which way is it the clutch plates go from
> > the
> > fingered type to the flat metal ring in the center to the fingers
> > with no
> > ring? Possible we have a case here of an odd pressure plate?
> >
> > Again, I'm just speculating - but I know thwere's one combination of
> > these
> > parts that does what this describes (lots of throw...).
> >
> >                ajr
> >
> >

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:17:14 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

That would depend on what state you live in. I think most states aren't 
like California, thank god! In Colo, we can put what ever engine we want 
in an old car. In fact with classic plates, I only have to get 1 smog
test ever, I passed it, and never need to worry about it again. :)

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> 
> >what kind of a nightmare would it be trying to fit a newer engine like say a
> >'98 Jeep 4cyl or a 2000 Jeep V6?  I figure the electronics would kill you,
> >but I just thought I'd ask...  I've seen a couple motors for amazingly low
> >prices lately.
> 
> Why would he want a series rig that needed SMOG testing? 
- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:29:20 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch

No, same everything except driven plate, which looked slightly different
than the one that came out, but only as far as the central metal part 
goes. It wasn't a Borg and Beck, but came from RN I think.

William J. Rice wrote:
> 
> Good call Alan--I too was wondering if he replaced the pressure plate.  I
> ended up getting a "sans diaphragm" pressure plate to replace my "avec
> diaphragm" plate so I just put the old one back in.  They are DEFINITELY
> different dimensions and the "sans" model would certainly cause some
> throwout issues which would give symptoms like he's describing.
> 
> And he might have play in his pins--I don't think he's who Jim was
> referring to.
> 
> bill
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:10:48 -0400 "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus"
> <[email-masked]> writes:
> >
> > >His has no play in the pins.
> >
> > It was worth asking - seen this a few times.
> >
> > Second dumb question - which way is it the clutch plates go from
> > the
> > fingered type to the flat metal ring in the center to the fingers
> > with no
> > ring? Possible we have a case here of an odd pressure plate?
> >
> > Again, I'm just speculating - but I know thwere's one combination of
> > these
> > parts that does what this describes (lots of throw...).
> >
> >                ajr
> >
> >

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:37:35 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Toro rebuild

I'm bringing Bill's back to life. It is fairly much identical to a 
fairey. For those of you who have done a rebuild, is it possible to put
the entire assembled shaft in the case at once? It is going to be a pain
to do it piece by piece. I was thinking that if I pull the pin for the
intermediate gears and temporarily put something thin in to kind of hold
the gear and bearings in place, the drop in gear heigth may allow me to
put the entire mainshaft assembly in at once. I will try it soon, but 
has anyone else tried it and if so, does it work?

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:40:55 -0600
From: "Coates, Clinton" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: British history

Hi Gerry!

Thanks for the website, I will check it out.

http://www.britishempire.co.uk/bbs/messages/10230.html

>Funny, all those good Anglo Saxon Britons from Robin Hood's time were being
>put upon by Normans, who were nothing more than a bunch of hopped up
>Vikings, another Germanic crowd.
>
>Gotta love history!

>...BTW they were from Normandy (France) not Germany nor Scandinavia.

Ah, but it is my understanding that the Normans (northmen) settled in
Normandy a hundred or so hears before crossing the channel.

>  I think that 
>little conflict started by Bill the Conqueror may be the basis for 
>the current and ongoing love/hate relationship between the peoples on 
>opposite sides of the channel.  Of course that other more recent 
>French guy, Mr. Bonaparte may have contributed.

Not to mention Garlic Pudding and whatnot (latest Mr. Bean show).

Hows Peat doing these days?

Clinton

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:52:54 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: True Brits (was Guinness)

> Funny, all those good Anglo Saxon Britons from Robin Hood's time were
being
> put upon by Normans, who were nothing more than a bunch of hopped up
> Vikings, another Germanic crowd.

Close - the Normans were from Normandy, France.
William the Conquerer, betrayal, Hastings, Bayeux Tapestry.
1066, And All That.

As far as the Britons thing goes, my British History is a little fuzzy after
about 2000 B.C.E., but perhaps the reason the Cymru bunch claim to be the
only "true Brits" is because nobody has successfully invaded them. The
island was full of the same short, dark-skinned, big headed chaps until the
invaders came. The Vikings didn't get into Wales. Got their asses kicked,
really.  The Romans pretty much stopped short. The Normans didn't bother
because they heard they would most likely get a whuppin' (they weren't used
to mountain combat).

Basically, the armies of history never felt like messing with this hearty
group of Celtic biker-types, so I guess they are "pure," whereas the rest of
Britain has been intermixed. A list of town names in England will verify the
many influences on its culture, whereas Wales gives you the most vowel-free
placenames for your buck (pound), because they're mostly still named in
Welsh Gaelic or a derivative. Viva la glottal stop.
The English have had so many genetic influences over the last 2500 years
it's safe to say that they are just as much mutts as we Yanks are.
The myth that red hair is a Scottish trait is...well.... a myth. Danish men
on pillage parties left their zygotes scattered with the women of  both
Tartan-land and Hibernia, so while free of Roman genes, they've been
seriously tainted from the East.

Nid yw Cymru ar Werth!
Alex Maiolo (Huw Goc Aur)
Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 01 14:57:41 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: gear and transfer teach please

>What then, does it mean if the yellow knob will not stay down on it's own? 
>If you hold
>it down, the vehicle will stay in low 4 and drive normally.

Ok the yellow knob will ONLY stay down when the vehicle is in high range. 
 Placing the red lever into low range is how you get the yellow knob to 
pop up.

You push down the yellow knob ONLY if you want high range 4WD.  When the 
red knob lever is all the way back you are in low range.  Low range is 
ALWAYS 4WD even though the yellow knob is up.

Buy an owners maual.  It is chalked full of information on how to drive 
and maintain a series LR.  I had my LR for 20 years before I bought one 
and even I learned some stuff from reading the manual.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:55:03 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Guinness

Neil writes: >>>Hmmm....scary, as, believe it or not Frank, I AM actually a
colonial!!!!!<<<

garn, you're from Northampton...
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:16:53 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Guinness (for Frank, the Old Fart)

>OK guys, what's the 'odd' thing about serving Newkie Brown?

First use of the clear bottle (reputed to "ruin" the beer, but I haven't
noticed)? Oldest brewing site in the UK, allegedly? Gawrsh, I don't know....

> Did you know that 'Bud' drunk from the bottle is a trendy drink in the UK?
> Whenever I see 'em I have a chuckle knowing what my 'Murrican friends
> actually think of it :-)>

We all want we we can't have...
Yeah, the whole Cool Britania thing kinda flooded you guys with quite a bit
of Cool Americana too. The Bud thing. Jeans on the comeback. Even a PM who
modeled his campaign after our Pres. (except, you know, for that the fact
that he doesn't seem to have a malfuctioning fly that keeps opening itself
in the company of random women).
My friends in London have often been heard to say "Um Alex, you have a Land
Rover...err..WHY?"
And I'm like, "Fools! You should ALL drive them!"
I just sit there drinking that elixer of Chiswick, Fuller's, at a bob or two
a pint, and watch them spend the extra cash so they can drink Milwakee
piss-water. Perhaps I can work out a beer exchange program...
Real Czech Budweiser is another story. Good stuff!

> Of course the young things drinking it are looking at me and thinking
'he's
> an old fart drinking Mild'
> like I care...

They'll learn...

>you spotted the extra 'e' Alex. As I prefer Irish whiskey and always have
>some around, mine shouldn't be a 'Scots' Mac.
>mix? to taste mate, to taste - and have a lot of fun experimentin'...
 >(I do half'n'half myself)

Remind the "young things" of these proportions the next time you're feeling
like a lightweight (<-----unintentional LR content)

Up Alan Shearer!
Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:45:51 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Fast Freewheel

I ran a LtWt with 2.2tc engine, Range Rover diffs and overdrive some fifteen
years or so ago.
 The figures worked out by a friend said there was a 'theoretical' top speed
of 90mph...
 at 70mph the whole vehicle felt as though it was falling to bits. I never
did go above 70. Used to cruise happily at 60 tho'
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:08 PM
Subject: LRO: Fast Freewheel

> It is true, I too have been 70+ Mph in a diesel Safari LWB.  It was down
hill
> and steep. It took it out of gear because I thought the engine was going
to
> explode. It freewheeled up to 75 before I chickened out. Putting it back
into
> 4th at 65 required a right foot on the floor. The radiator then did
explode
> about 5 miles further up the road and I had to have it towed.
> Mark Pilkington
>
>
> Peter Ogilvie wrote:
>
> > David, you sure you weren't indulging in illicit herbs at the time.
95mph
> > in a Series!!!!  That's probably terminal velocity if you dumped it out
of
> > an airplane  With a 2 1/4 providing propulsion, it had to be way more
than a
> > slight downhill and the tail wind must have been from one of those
> > alphabetically named low pressure systems that enlivens summers in the
Gulf
> > of Mexico.  If memory serves me right, my MGB which supposedly had 20
more
> > hp, a 1,000#s less weight, and better aerodynamics, struggled mightily
to
> > best 100mph indicated.  That was running right at red line of 6,000rpm
and I
> > think that the MGB had 4.11 diffs (don't quote me on that, however) so
would
> > have been turning less RPM per mph than the series with 4.7s.
> >
> > Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical but it seems to defy physical laws.
> > Wind resistance increases exponentially and the Series truck is about as
> > stream lined as a brick out house.
> >
> > Aloha
> > Peter O.
> >
> > >From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
> > >Reply-To: [email-masked]
> > >To: <[email-masked]>
> > >Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap
> > >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:03:46 -0500 (CDT)
> > >
> > >On Sun, 10 Jun 2001, Peter Ogilvie wrote:
> > >
> > >:Given the aerodynamics of a Series, I think you'd rue the day that you
> > >:geared it so high (low numerically).  Probably would take 400hp to
push
> > >the
> > >:brick at that speed.  3,000rpm @ 70mph would probably be a lot better
as
> > >the
> > >
> > >I've riden in an 88 at that speed -- speed measured by a handheld GPS,
not
> > >a
> > >speedometer.  It had a 2.25 in it, even.  It was a rather hopped up
engine,
> > >sure, and there was a long, not too steep downhill and probably a
tailwind.
> > >I assure you that when you think "10 inch brakes, 2" shoes, boiling
brake
> > >fluid..." you encourage the driver to slow down.  I don't want to know
what
> > >RPMs the engine has to turn to pull that speed. (overdrive, 31" tires,
> > >since
> > >I'm sure someone's going to tell me...)
> > >
> > >--
> > >[email-masked]
> > >Bipedalism is only a fad.
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:41:41 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Toro rebuild

I guess not, but it sure makes life easier! Bill, your OD should be done
within the hour.

Jim Hall wrote:
> 
> I'm bringing Bill's back to life. It is fairly much identical to a
> fairey. For those of you who have done a rebuild, is it possible to put
> the entire assembled shaft in the case at once? It is going to be a pain
> to do it piece by piece. I was thinking that if I pull the pin for the
> intermediate gears and temporarily put something thin in to kind of hold
> the gear and bearings in place, the drop in gear heigth may allow me to
> put the entire mainshaft assembly in at once. I will try it soon, but
> has anyone else tried it and if so, does it work?
> 
> --
> Jim Hall
> 1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
> with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:19:18 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

Interesting bit of CO trivia:  I talked to the emissions guy when I got
Mrs. Merdle tested and he told me that they're SUPPOSED to do the
emissions test based on the age of the engine, but that it's a law more
observed in the breach than in the keeping. 

If they crack down on this, Mrs. M. would have to meet '80 standards with
the engine I've got in her, UNLESS it the engine I bought reman'd from
Jasper used later model block (block SN is the determining factor for the
test)  in which case, who knows what "year" my engine would be
considered.  It could really get silly, since people with a 302 from long
ago could get a reman'd one using a block from not so long ago and have
to meet new standards just b/c they've swapped blocks.

bill

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:17:14 -0600 "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]> writes:
> That would depend on what state you live in. I think most states 
> aren't 
> like California, thank god! In Colo, we can put what ever engine we 
> want 
> in an old car. In fact with classic plates, I only have to get 1 
> smog
> test ever, I passed it, and never need to worry about it again. :)
> 
> TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
> > 
> > >what kind of a nightmare would it be trying to fit a newer engine 
> like say a
> > >'98 Jeep 4cyl or a 2000 Jeep V6?  I figure the electronics would 
> kill you,
> > >but I just thought I'd ask...  I've seen a couple motors for 
> amazingly low
> > >prices lately.
> > 
> > Why would he want a series rig that needed SMOG testing? 
> -- 
> Jim Hall
> 1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
> 
> with Jim." Mitch Stockdale
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:19:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, William J. Rice wrote:

:Interesting bit of CO trivia:  I talked to the emissions guy when I got
:Mrs. Merdle tested and he told me that they're SUPPOSED to do the
:emissions test based on the age of the engine, but that it's a law more
:observed in the breach than in the keeping.
:
:If they crack down on this, Mrs. M. would have to meet '80 standards with
:the engine I've got in her, UNLESS it the engine I bought reman'd from
:Jasper used later model block (block SN is the determining factor for the
:test)  in which case, who knows what "year" my engine would be
:considered.  It could really get silly, since people with a 302 from long
:ago could get a reman'd one using a block from not so long ago and have
:to meet new standards just b/c they've swapped blocks.

I think that's the federal law, actually.  You have to meet the standards
for the newer of the engine or the vehicle.  So if you stick a '66 V8 in
your 2001 'vette, you'd still have to meet the current standards.  That
makes sense, of course.  The way it effects you doesn't.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:06:37 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Guiness

Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 08:36:26 -0600
From: "Kirk Hillman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Guinness (was Acetone and Rain-X)

>Okay, all ye Brits.  I have a very serious question to ask.  Last night
while out for dinner a friend ordered a Guinness... but only if this
establishment served them cold.  My friend understands that the proper way
to drink this fine ale (in Britain) is cold, contrary to what we understand
you drink most of your beer.  I thought you drank it warm.  So what's the
real scoop?

The British don't drink their beer warm as most globally ignorant Americans 
seem to think.  They drink it at cellar temperature, which can actually be 
quite cold.  The only beer you have to drink ice cold is the crap they make in 
this country, because once it reaches 33 degrees, you realize how absolutely 
awful it tastes.  I visit the UK a lot, and I've had meals in pubs from Dover 
to Inverness, and I've never once had a beer (ale, stout, etc.) "warm."  It's all been 
what I would describe as "cellar cold," even if it didn't come from an actual keg in 
the cellar.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:12:56 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: British (was Guinness...)

Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:25:08 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Guinness

>Scots, Welsh and English are British, Irish are Irish.

Based on my observations in the UK over the last twelve years, 
I would say the Scots and particularly the Welsh don't even 
regard themselves as British.  They regard themselves as 
Scots and Welsh.  And of course no one in Britain takes 
an Irishman seriously unless he's armed......
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:14:12 -0400
From: "David Cockey" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Clutch 

Did you replace the clutch with another LR 9" unit, a LR 9.5" unit, or
something else? Also, what exactly did you replace?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:29:18 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:36:50 +0100
From: Ian Stuart <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

>His engine picks up again at 4,000 rpm, and red-lines at about 7,000. 
The vehicle will happily cruise at 70mph on 235/85r16 tyres, with a 
standard SII gearbox & standard diffs...

I suspect you're being fed a big one.  I didn't see anything on your 
list of modifications about desmodromic valves, which is the only 
way that lump of crap is going to avoid horrendous valve float at 
much over 5,000 rpm, let alone 7,000 rpm, and that's assuming 
all the other rotating bits manage to hold together, which I doubt 
they will if you've ever seen things like the gears that drive the 
distributor, the timing chain tensioner, the oil pump, and the other 
various crude, tractor-type parts in there.

I've no doubt that you can take a 2.25 block, take EVERYTHING out 
of it and make brand new components that are designed to operate at 
and maintain high rpms, high heat, etc., etc. etc. and end up with 
an engine that will turn much faster than the stock 2.25 engine.  But 
this would require a total redesign of the valve train and a lot of the 
other components, too.  Just sticking in larger pistons, milling the 
head, polishing the intake manifold and installing a different carburetor 
isn't going to overcome the mechanical limitations of the ancient, clunky, 
heavy, sloppy, roller-follower valve system, let alone all the other iffy 
parts in there along with it.

The only way a 2.25 engine is going to see a sustained 7,000 rpm is if 
you drill a hole through the middle of it and mount it on the output shaft 
of a gas turbine :-)
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:37:43 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Driveshaft (was Guinness...)

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:06:14 -0500
From: "KEITH ARMSTRONG" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: "Lay" opinion of Guinness :-)

>LR content.....do I have to unbolt both ends of my driveshafts to remove the
trans?

No, you don't.  However, since removing the driveshaft is so easy (eight bolts), 
you might as well because then it will be out of your way totally instead of 
lurking there waiting to whack you on the head if you're under the vehicle.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:17:02 -0600
From: "Coates, Clinton" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Tom Sheppards Recessed Lashing Cleats

I managed to get ahold of Tom Sheppard.  Quite a personable fellow, I must
say.  It turns out that, as suspected, those nifty recessed lashing cleats
were a custom job.  He was kind enough to give me the dimensions though.

So, anyone up to doing some metal forming and welding?

clinton

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 04:50:30 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Tom Sheppards Recessed Lashing Cleats

do you have a photo of what you are talking about?
Pete
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Coates, Clinton" <[email-masked]>
To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 7:17 AM
Subject: LRO: Tom Sheppards Recessed Lashing Cleats

> I managed to get ahold of Tom Sheppard.  Quite a personable fellow, I must
> say.  It turns out that, as suspected, those nifty recessed lashing cleats
> were a custom job.  He was kind enough to give me the dimensions though.
>
> So, anyone up to doing some metal forming and welding?
>
> clinton
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:03:41 -0400
From: Winn Bearden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

I was a big fan of the Powerstroke until a damn sensor failed and left me
stranded yesterday.  No limp home mode, nothing.  Dead. Amazing how a little
thing like that sensor can turn an  amazing powerplant like that into a boat
anchor.  I miss my regular ol' 7.3 no DI, no Turbo, nothing to tear up.

TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:

> >what kind of a nightmare would it be trying to fit a newer engine like say a
> >'98 Jeep 4cyl or a 2000 Jeep V6?  I figure the electronics would kill you,
> >but I just thought I'd ask...  I've seen a couple motors for amazingly low
> >prices lately.
>
> Why would he want a series rig that needed SMOG testing?  Otherwise they
> could be made to fit.  Personaly I'm a fan of simplicity.
>
> TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
> Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
> [email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
>                               and more
>
> http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

- --
Winn Bearden          19XX SIIa/SIII/RR 100" Hybrid
P.O. Box 464          1967 NADA 109" SW (in pieces)
Americus, GA 31709    1996 4.0 SE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:13:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Winn Bearden wrote:

:I was a big fan of the Powerstroke until a damn sensor failed and left me
:stranded yesterday.  No limp home mode, nothing.  Dead. Amazing how a little
:thing like that sensor can turn an  amazing powerplant like that into a boat
:anchor.  I miss my regular ol' 7.3 no DI, no Turbo, nothing to tear up.
:

ooch.  Which sensor?

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:34:23 -0400
From: Winn Bearden <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

Camshaft Position sensor

David Scheidt wrote:

> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Winn Bearden wrote:
>
> :I was a big fan of the Powerstroke until a damn sensor failed and left me
> :stranded yesterday.  No limp home mode, nothing.  Dead. Amazing how a little
> :thing like that sensor can turn an  amazing powerplant like that into a boat
> :anchor.  I miss my regular ol' 7.3 no DI, no Turbo, nothing to tear up.
> :
>
> ooch.  Which sensor?
>
> --
> [email-masked]
> Bipedalism is only a fad.

- --
Winn Bearden          19XX SIIa/SIII/RR 100" Hybrid
P.O. Box 464          1967 NADA 109" SW (in pieces)
Americus, GA 31709    1996 4.0 SE

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:40:34 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap

I'm not a fan of the Jeep 4 cylinder that was in the 85 & 86 Cherokees.  
Don't know if that is the current engine in the Wrangler but if it is, stay 
away from it.  Engine did not produce significant torque below 2800 rpm so 
was virtually useless off road.  Would not putter along in low range with 
the air conditioning on unless you rode the clutch and rev'd the heck out of 
it.  Often had to go into low range to negotiate drive ways and to start off 
on some steep roads.  Performed okay on the road but a real bow wow unless 
you kept the rpm's up.

Aloha
Peter O.

>From: Winn Bearden <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Engine/Trans Swap
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:03:41 -0400
>
>I was a big fan of the Powerstroke until a damn sensor failed and left me
>stranded yesterday.  No limp home mode, nothing.  Dead. Amazing how a 
>little
>thing like that sensor can turn an  amazing powerplant like that into a 
>boat
>anchor.  I miss my regular ol' 7.3 no DI, no Turbo, nothing to tear up.
>
>TeriAnn Wakeman wrote:
>
> > >what kind of a nightmare would it be trying to fit a newer engine like 
>say a
> > >'98 Jeep 4cyl or a 2000 Jeep V6?  I figure the electronics would kill 
>you,
> > >but I just thought I'd ask...  I've seen a couple motors for amazingly 
>low
> > >prices lately.
> >
> > Why would he want a series rig that needed SMOG testing?  Otherwise they
> > could be made to fit.  Personaly I'm a fan of simplicity.
> >
> > TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
> > Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
> > [email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
> >                               and more
> >
> > http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html
>
>--
>Winn Bearden          19XX SIIa/SIII/RR 100" Hybrid
>P.O. Box 464          1967 NADA 109" SW (in pieces)
>Americus, GA 31709    1996 4.0 SE
>
>

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