Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #395

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:15:12 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *  Monday, June 4 2001  Volume 01 : Number 395

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:14:56 -0700
From: "Rich & Lori Williams" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Frame bushings

Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings.  My instincts
tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is
blasted then replace with new bushings.  Thoughts anyone?

Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press?

Thanks again,

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 09:51:40 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Frame bushings

Yes a press is nice, place frame in press and press out.  Lacking a press 
large enough to fit the rover in, you'll have to cut the outer sleeve and 
drive it out.  Need to cut the sleeve all the way through, BTW, or it will 
probably just hang in while you mangle the frame.  An air chisel with the 
'V' shaped cutting bit may drive it out without cutting.  Haven't tried it 
yet but did use an air chizel to drive my last one out after cutting.  It 
came out almost as soon as I touched the trigger.  Way Cool!!  Lather up the 
bush and frame puka with marine bearing grease or never seize and reinstall. 
  You'll need to lash up a tool to draw the new bush back into the frame, if 
your putting stock bushes back in.  I use a long bolt, some surplus shackles 
and a bunch of washers of appropriate size for spacers.  Keep cranking on 
the nut, loosening and adding washers, and cranking, etc. till the bush is 
back in place.  Have heard but not verified that Polubushes are in two 
pieces and have no outer sleeve so go in and come out way easier.

Its not a very rewarding job but doable in about an hour or two per bush.  
Probably a lot easier and should be somewhat faster with the frame stripped 
and at a more comfortable working height.

Aloha
Peter O
Kona Coffee Rover

Probably doesn't matter if you remove the bushes before or after 
sandblasting

>From: "Rich & Lori Williams" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: <[email-masked]>
>Subject: LRO: Frame bushings
>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:14:56 -0700
>
>Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings.  My instincts
>tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is
>blasted then replace with new bushings.  Thoughts anyone?
>
>Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press?
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Rich
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:10:26 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Steering Relay Removal

>Clear packing tape, put on very thick, seems to resist sandblasting very
>very well. Just put a lot on, I suspect duct tape`s somewhat textured
>surface gives the sand some purchas, incentive to tear it off...

A custom body shop I used once cut windows for chopped roof by sand
blasting them.  They just used masking tape at the parting line and had
at it with the blaster, so I would think that masking tape would work
fine.

Chris hall

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:47:11 -0600
From: "Ross Maylor" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Tranny swap/rebuild

Todd,
Recently our club took a tour of the local Spicer shop and found that for
relatively little money they would install new u-joints and balance the
driveshaft. The balancing made a big difference reducing the vibration in my
'58 Healey where the driveshaft is a third the length of the Landrovers'.
Haven't done it on my 109SW yet but I am sure it will make a difference at
speed...so to speak!!

Regards
Ross Maylor
109SW of no fixed year.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:27:20 -0600
From: "The Stockdales" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc.  I'm awful tired of all of the
bitching, wining, and all around complaints.  You could get hit by a bus
tomorrow.  Why doesn't anyone take responsibility for their own safety and
the life they lead anymore.  Thin the heard, clean the gene pool or take
responsibility for your life.

To bad for the guy who built his family farm on the Missouri River flood
plain behind a homemade levee.  His brother built a house on the side of a
cliff in Calif (under power lines from the nuke plant).  Dad smoked Kents
with microlite filters made out of that new miracle fiber asbestos.  Pulled
his back out trying to lift a 500 lb. box at work, now sits at home talking
on his cell phone absorbing microwaves into the skull and drinks cheap lite
beer until his kidneys shrivel up.  He had a sister who scalded her crotch
by spilling a coffee on it.  She got a bunch of money in the law suit and
took a trip to Europe on TWA flight 800.  etc, etc.

Hurricane Mitch

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:46:16 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

The Stockdales wrote:
 
> Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc.  I'm awful tired of all of the
> bitching, wining, and all around complaints. 

<Ahem>

Much as I despise political correctness...

Maybe you don't want to put yourself in the same corner as Cape PLC (the
British company who made hundreds of millions of pounds out of having
uneducated poverty stricken folk in the northern Cape dig asbestos out
of the ground with no safety equipment, and has now asset-stripped the
company so that claims by the survivors and their families can't be paid
out).

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:17:28 +0100
From: "John Bridgett" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Sorry guys,
I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for intruding.

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Paul Oxley
Sent: 04 June 2001 06:46
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

The Stockdales wrote:

> Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc.  I'm awful tired of all of the
> bitching, wining, and all around complaints.

<Ahem>

Much as I despise political correctness...

Maybe you don't want to put yourself in the same corner as Cape PLC (the
British company who made hundreds of millions of pounds out of having
uneducated poverty stricken folk in the northern Cape dig asbestos out
of the ground with no safety equipment, and has now asset-stripped the
company so that claims by the survivors and their families can't be paid
out).

Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 03:18:49 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Electrics

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Last night, I blew the fuse when I turned on the windscreen wipers so today I 
took the dashboard off to trace the problem and frightened myself. Its a 
rat's nest. Wires everywhere and PO's have added many more. Plus, the 30 year 
old insulation is beginning to look really scary. So the next project is to 
rewire the entire vehicle.

So, any tips from those who've done it? How long did it take? How much pain 
was involved? The diagram in the Green Bible makes it look so 
simple...............

Thanks in advance,

Ian Kelly

Los Angeles

1970 Series IIA

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Last night, I blew the fuse when I turned on the windscreen wipers so today I 
<BR>took the dashboard off to trace the problem and frightened myself. Its a 
<BR>rat's nest. Wires everywhere and PO's have added many more. Plus, the 30 year 
<BR>old insulation is beginning to look really scary. So the next project is to 
<BR>rewire the entire vehicle.
<BR>
<BR>So, any tips from those who've done it? How long did it take? How much pain 
<BR>was involved? The diagram in the Green Bible makes it look so 
<BR>simple...............
<BR>
<BR>Thanks in advance,
<BR>
<BR>Ian Kelly
<BR>
<BR>Los Angeles
<BR>
<BR>1970 Series IIA</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_23.c91e7f5.284c9059_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:54:23 +0200
From: Paul Oxley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

John Bridgett wrote:
 
> Sorry guys,
> I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for intruding.

You're forgiven :-{>}
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:58:41 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Electrics

Yup - not a big surprise....

First off, have a look at the PO's wiring - what did he add and where and
more importantly WHY? THis is all going to have to be re-added properly by
hand - preferably in properly colour-coded wire.

Were I you (and I'm in this shape with Mr. Churchill) I'd get a new
harness, and add the proper wiring alongside that as needed.

Rewiring, like everything else, is not a nightmare but is involved. Take it
all out paying careful attention to small jumpers and the like that you
might need later. Then armed with your new harnesses and a copy of the
wiring diagram hook it up one section at a time, coloring in the wires as
connected. THis way you have some idea of where to look as you go through
the troubleshooting process later.

If you want to chat on this off-line I can tell some horror
stories...<grin>

                    Alan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:42:37 -0400 
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion?

How about installing 11" 109 Fronts on the back, but put them on backwards
so the self servo works in reverse. Reduced rear braking when going forward
but improver braking on the leading axle when in reverse.

>  General consensus seems to be to back your rear shoes way 
> off or you're just wasting rear brake shoe material ;-)
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:38:35 -0400 
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion?

Well, I have...in fact, I installed it just last weekend on my IIA 88.  I
like it!
AB & DAP have been reps for TIC selling the kit as installed only.  
However, TIC appears now to be willing to ship anywhere...at least that's
what's currently implied on their website.
TIC also now offers a rear disc kit for Series trucks, based on DiscoII
calipers (though IMHO with the front kit you wouldn't really need the rear
also).

Contact me if you have any questions about the kit.

John Tackley
RIC

Probably not since you can only buy it through AB, and if they install 
it. A little too pricy in my book.

Gerry Elam wrote:
> Anyone done TI Console's disc brake conversion?  

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:45:16 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Asbestos

It worked like a dream on my 1995 RR (Rangie, not Rolls) Classic.  I used Berol / Turquoise No. 12 Drawing Leads that I keep a supply of for a drafting pencil that I used in college.  The leads are 5 inches long, pointed at one end and roughly 1/8" in size.  I drilled four 1/8" holes about 3 inches into the surface of the leading edge of every pad on the truck.  No squeaking this morning and I suppose as the pads continue to wear, exposing the graphite, no squeaking will ever happen.

Thanks

>>> [email-masked] 06/01/01 08:29PM >>>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:43:38 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Asbestos (was tuning by eye)

On 31 May 2001, at 10:36, Faure, Marin wrote:

>> Actually, the graphite does not do anything to lubricate the lining.  The 
> purpose of the lead "inserts" in the edge of the lining (not the face) is to
> dampen the high-frequency vibrations that are the actual source of the squeal. 
> It works for both pads and shoes.

>Presumably under the assumption that a couple of inches of pencil lead is 
going to alter the mass of the pad/shoe enough to actually alter it's vibration 
characteristics?

I'm not going to dispute your numbers, but the vibration dampening effect is 
what ROLLS ROYCE said about the technique in a description of it that I 
read many years ago.  I first read about the lead thing in the early 1970s, 
so the technique has been around at least that long.  (The same RR pamphlet I 
read also described a technique for limo drivers to come to a stop without 
causing the vehicle to rock back slightly, thus avoiding "disturbing" the occupants in 
back.)  There was an sketch of the lead thing, and the holes were drilled 
in the edge of the lining on the shoe, NOT in the face of the shoe.)  
As I recall, the Rolls Royce pamphlet did not describe the technique as a way of 
overcoming the problems of asbestos-free brake lining, but simply as a way to 
eliminate brake squeal if you had it.  Makes sense, as they were still using 
asbestos in brakes in the early '70s.

Over the years, I've had the technique described to me by a few mechanics, and 
they all said the same thing- drill the holes in the edge of the lining material 
parallel and as close to the backing plate as practical.  Then insert the lead 
cores, which effectively break up the vibration patters. The length of the 
cores should be as long as you can get away with. I use pieces about 3 inches 
inches long on our Range Rover, and I put in four of them in each pad.  The 
vehicle had a bad squealing problem at low speeds from day one, but I kept putting 
off doing the lead thing until recently.  When I reinstalled the pads, the squeal was 
gone, and so far it's not come back.

As for dampening vibration, if you give a tuning fork a whack, you can almost 
completely stop the sound by touching it with a just a feather.  So I'm not sure 
mass is the only factor affecting the interruption of high frequencies, which is 
what brake squeal is.

But what I know about physics wouldn't fill a thimble, so I can't make any sort of 
scientific argument supporting the technique as described by Rolls Royce and the 
mechanics I've talked to.  All I know is that following their process, brake squeal 
goes away.  I would assume that if you drilled holes in the face of the pad or shoe, 
you'd accomplish the same thing for the same reason.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:13:47 -0400
From: "Lee Jones" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Graphite in brakes

This thread has my mind messed up - back in the 60's and early 70's, on our
street cars (and on the race cars too!) we used to put four or five lead
pencil inserts in the friction surface of the pad, not on the edge, to cut
down on the squeal (and on the race car - a Mini Cooper to cut down on
having the pad weld itself to the rotor).

Putting the lead in the edge of the pad would seem to me to be totally
harmless until the pad wears down to the level of the graphite and then you
would have a solid line (or lines) of graphite all across the pad (or shoe)
surface.  Earlier someone wrote that the graphite would act as a lubricant
(which it didn't seem to in any way) if placed in the wear surface of the
pad.  My understanding was that - at least - disk brakes work mechanically
more than as a friction material against the rotor (yes if oil gets in there
it WILL degrade the braking effect) and that much of the feeling of brake
fade was in gasses that were generated between the pad and rotor when the
brakes were very hot.  The pads on the race car were mostly made out of
sintered iron which still worked good when the brakes were hot but would
both boil the brake fluid and would weld themselves to the rotor when the
car was stopped.

Lee

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of RON WARD
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:45 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: Graphite in brakes

It worked like a dream on my 1995 RR (Rangie, not Rolls) Classic.  I used
Berol / Turquoise No. 12 Drawing Leads that I keep a supply of for a
drafting pencil that I used in college.  The leads are 5 inches long,
pointed at one end and roughly 1/8" in size.  I drilled four 1/8" holes
about 3 inches into the surface of the leading edge of every pad on the
truck.  No squeaking this morning and I suppose as the pads continue to
wear, exposing the graphite, no squeaking will ever happen.

Thanks

>>> [email-masked] 06/01/01 08:29PM >>>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:43:38 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Asbestos (was tuning by eye)

On 31 May 2001, at 10:36, Faure, Marin wrote:

>> Actually, the graphite does not do anything to lubricate the lining.  The
> purpose of the lead "inserts" in the edge of the lining (not the face) is
to
> dampen the high-frequency vibrations that are the actual source of the
squeal.
> It works for both pads and shoes.

>Presumably under the assumption that a couple of inches of pencil lead is
going to alter the mass of the pad/shoe enough to actually alter it's
vibration
characteristics?

I'm not going to dispute your numbers, but the vibration dampening effect is
what ROLLS ROYCE said about the technique in a description of it that I
read many years ago.  I first read about the lead thing in the early 1970s,
so the technique has been around at least that long.  (The same RR pamphlet
I
read also described a technique for limo drivers to come to a stop without
causing the vehicle to rock back slightly, thus avoiding "disturbing" the
occupants in
back.)  There was an sketch of the lead thing, and the holes were drilled
in the edge of the lining on the shoe, NOT in the face of the shoe.)
As I recall, the Rolls Royce pamphlet did not describe the technique as a
way of
overcoming the problems of asbestos-free brake lining, but simply as a way
to
eliminate brake squeal if you had it.  Makes sense, as they were still using
asbestos in brakes in the early '70s.

Over the years, I've had the technique described to me by a few mechanics,
and
they all said the same thing- drill the holes in the edge of the lining
material
parallel and as close to the backing plate as practical.  Then insert the
lead
cores, which effectively break up the vibration patters. The length of the
cores should be as long as you can get away with. I use pieces about 3
inches
inches long on our Range Rover, and I put in four of them in each pad.  The
vehicle had a bad squealing problem at low speeds from day one, but I kept
putting
off doing the lead thing until recently.  When I reinstalled the pads, the
squeal was
gone, and so far it's not come back.

As for dampening vibration, if you give a tuning fork a whack, you can
almost
completely stop the sound by touching it with a just a feather.  So I'm not
sure
mass is the only factor affecting the interruption of high frequencies,
which is
what brake squeal is.

But what I know about physics wouldn't fill a thimble, so I can't make any
sort of
scientific argument supporting the technique as described by Rolls Royce and
the
mechanics I've talked to.  All I know is that following their process, brake
squeal
goes away.  I would assume that if you drilled holes in the face of the pad
or shoe,
you'd accomplish the same thing for the same reason.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:40:58 -0400 
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Frame bushings

Rich, 
Got shop AIR?  Air hammer?  Punch attachment for air hammer?
- - Use hacksaw (install blade upside-down, basically, run blade through the
bushing, teeth towards handle).  This is actually much easier than it
sounds, with a fresh new blade.
- - Cut through first steel layer only.
- - Place air hammer punch into the rubber between the steel layers, right at
the cut you just made.
- - Hammer the punch through entire length of bushing. The inner steel layer
will curl at the cut, releasing pressure on the rubber and outer steel layer
and the entire bushing will 'drive' right out with the air hammer/punch.
This method has never failed for me.

JT/ric

Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings.  My instincts
tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is
blasted then replace with new bushings.  Thoughts anyone?

Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press?

Thanks again,

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:46:34 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Weird Salisbury leak (again)

In a message dated 5/31/01 1:27:10 PM, [email-masked] writes:

<< Where do I find one of these?  Not that I've looked, but I'm guessing
there ain't one in the SII/IIA green bible, seeing as how Salisburies 
(is that the plural?) didn't come on 'em.  Maybe I'll dig into Mr. Haynes
manual and then go see what mid-70s F250s had on them.  Headed out to
garage now to poke around in my manuals. . .  >>

bill
    An exploded diagram of a Salisbury may be in a Slla service manual 
because Salisbury rear axles actually were offered as an option starting in 
1966 or 67 although they were a very rare option particularly in the US. 
    I haven't been following this thread but if you are having a leak at the 
drive flange, there is an o-ring that goes on the end of the drive flange 
that provides a seal when you press on the hub cap (provided the hub cap 
isn't out of round). Your o-ring may be missing. There are no felt seals and 
the axle doesn't bolt onto the flange, it is held in place with a circlip.

Bill
Great Basin Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:56:29 -0400 
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Frame bushings

While on the subject of bushings. I'll repeat the warning issued previously.
Don't be tempted to burn out the rubber. The fumes are hazardous and
exploding rubber particles can be very uncomfortable.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:49:27 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: disc brakes conversion?

What about doing this on a normal (not disc-braked) truck?  My 109s front
brakes seem plenty able to stop me headed forward, but off road on steep
hills, I have to MASH on the pedal to keep from going backwards when I
stop.  It's not the most confidence-inspiring feeling as you gather your
wits, look at lines, and play w/ the tranny brake and clutch in
preparation for your next run . . .

If everyone says this is a good idea, I'll be quite sad about giving away
my spare 11" backing plates a few years back . . .

An added benefit of this would be that it would make bleeding both the
front and rear axle a big ol' PITA.  

A drawback might be that the "rear circuit" part of the master ain't
designed to operate two slaves per wheel . . .

bill

On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:42:37 -0400 Easton Trevor A
<[email-masked]> writes:
> How about installing 11" 109 Fronts on the back, but put them on 
> backwards
> so the self servo works in reverse. Reduced rear braking when going 
> forward
> but improver braking on the leading axle when in reverse.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:47:15 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger

>Sorry guys,
>I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for >intruding.

Nope. The list is for Land Rover OWNERS ;-)

I get your point though.

Rover on!

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:50:46 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion?

Cool idea Trevor. That might work well.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:55:15 -0400 
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Back-ass-ward 109 front brakes...

Bill, 

>An added benefit of this would be that it would make bleeding both the
front and rear axle a big ol' PITA.  
...Very true...
>A drawback might be that the "rear circuit" part of the master ain't
designed to operate two slaves per wheel.
...Here's a solution for that...Crown Vic master cylinder, (NAPA Pt. #
4739467, sold as a "Safety Stop" product, @ $35). That's what I run on my 88
(info courtesy of Hank Rutherford)

I would also recommend a good flush of the Castrol GT-LMA (alcohol works)
and replace with Silicone fluid.  Much higher boiling point...you live in CO
mountains now, right?  This will help reduce the effects of brake fade on
long downhills.

JT/ric

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:59:25 -0400 
From: Matt Peckham <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: brakes brakes and more brakes.

OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do.
Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing
the front shoes and cylinders.  I took it out for a spin, and the left rear
brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments.  Last year,
the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left.  I will
be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the
problem before I do the fronts?

Matt Peckham
74 Lightweight.
        _____
  ||===|||  | \ 
 _||___|||__|__\_{EE}_
 |  ____         ____ \
 | /    \       /    \|)
[||( () )\_____|( () )[ ]
~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~

www.crossmember.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:37:37 -0400 
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes.

I'd go ahead w/ the fronts.
It's likely that you simply just have better rear braking right now with new
parts out-back.
Do check that you have:
- - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.5" WCs in the front; 
- - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); 
- - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing
plate), are not loose; 
- - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position;
- - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual;
- - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm
pedal to figure out which line has air in it).

Others here will no doubt have more suggestions...

Good luck,
JT/ric

OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do.
Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing
the front shoes and cylinders.  I took it out for a spin, and the left rear
brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments.  Last year,
the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left.  I will
be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the
problem before I do the fronts?

Matt Peckham
74 Lightweight.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:03:26 -0400 
From: Matt Peckham <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes.

I know the rears are 1", think the fronts are 1 1/4"  that's what they say
on the side.  They are the wheel cylinder set from AB.

Matt

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tackley, John [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:38 AM
To: [email-masked]'
Subject: LRO: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes.

I'd go ahead w/ the fronts.
It's likely that you simply just have better rear braking right now with new
parts out-back.
Do check that you have:
- - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.5" WCs in the front; 
- - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); 
- - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing
plate), are not loose; 
- - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position;
- - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual;
- - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm
pedal to figure out which line has air in it).

Others here will no doubt have more suggestions...

Good luck,
JT/ric

OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do.
Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing
the front shoes and cylinders.  I took it out for a spin, and the left rear
brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments.  Last year,
the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left.  I will
be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the
problem before I do the fronts?

Matt Peckham
74 Lightweight.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:13:42 -0400 
From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes.

Oops, 1.25" is right...sorry for the mis-information Matt!

Do check that you have:
- - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.25" WCs in the front; 
- - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); 
- - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing
plate), are not loose; 
- - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position;
- - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual;
- - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm
pedal to figure out which line has air in it).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:14:30 -0400
From: "Matthew Wilson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: source for generator screws?

Firstoff, belated thanks to those listmembers that gave me advice on sealing
the sph.  I now have the thing apart again, but I'm puzzled as to why the
seal is a little loose in there.  I tried an AB and an RN (genuine) seal,
both have the same wobble...I wonder if the housing is deformed
somehow...strange.

Next question, I rebuilt the generator (Lucas c-40) over the weekend.  I
cobbled together one that spins freely from the remains of mine and another
collection of parts.  However, while disassembling mine, I broke those two
long screws that go through the generator body and hold the end brackets
together.  Does anyone have a spare two that they would be willing to part
with?

Thanks,
Matthew

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:57:52 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Frame bushings

I'm puzzling over your description of removing the frame bushings.  Your 
saying cut the small inner sleeve, that the bolt goes through.  Then you can 
drive out the entire bushing, outer sleeve, the one welded to the frame by 
corrosion, by using a punch tool in the rubber.  This sounds a bit too easy, 
almost blasphemous devil's work.  I haven't tried an air chizel on an uncut 
outer bush but can't see how applying the tool to the rubber would have any 
effect on outer bush.  It would seem the rubber would absorb the blows of 
the chizel on one hand.  On the other, most of my frame bushes haven't had 
the rubber attached to the inner and/or outer sleeve so the rubber just 
falls out.  Could you try and clear up my incomprehension of your method.

I've never been able to get the outer sleeve to budge without cutting all 
the way through.  This has been using hand tools, however.  Tried without 
cutting using an VBFH, bush wouldn't budge and dinged the frame.  Once tried 
to drive out the flange with a bush that I thought was cut all the way 
through but wasn't.  Even though it had been cut 95% of the way through, a 
small section in the middle wasn't severed.  Mangled the frame tube and bush 
sleeve trying to beat it out.  Finally gave up and started over with the 
saw, which was made way more difficult because of the mangled condition of 
the sleeve.  Had to file burrs out of the frame tube before I could get a 
new bush in.

On my last bush removal, I used an air chizel after sawing the outer sleeve. 
  The cut sleeve came out so fast I was incredulous.  Can't wait, nah, 
that's being disengenuous, let's say on the next one I have to do, I'll try 
the air chizel on an uncut sleeve to see if it will drive it out.  Sure 
would be a BIG bonus, if it will, as cutting the sleeve is a sweaty PITA.

Burning out the rubber is quick, though it may be dirty.  If you use the 
torch, reccomened that its done in a well ventilated area and that you don't 
sniff the fumes.  Try aerosol propellants if you really want to sniff 
something stupid.  Its easy to stay away from the fumes and once the rubber 
is ignited, its self perpetuating so you can stand well back.

An impact wrench made reinstalling the sleeve a quick and easy operation 
with my make shift installation set up.  Ran the nut up on the bolt drawing 
the bush in quickly.  Zipped the nut right off when I had to add more 
spacers.  Lost out on a bit of exercise but cut the reinstallation by at 
least a third and no bruises or blood.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally running.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: "[email-masked]'" <[email-masked]>
>Subject: LRO: RE: Frame bushings
>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:40:58 -0400
>
>Rich,
>Got shop AIR?  Air hammer?  Punch attachment for air hammer?
>- Use hacksaw (install blade upside-down, basically, run blade through the
>bushing, teeth towards handle).  This is actually much easier than it
>sounds, with a fresh new blade.
>- Cut through first steel layer only.
>- Place air hammer punch into the rubber between the steel layers, right at
>the cut you just made.
>- Hammer the punch through entire length of bushing. The inner steel layer
>will curl at the cut, releasing pressure on the rubber and outer steel 
>layer
>and the entire bushing will 'drive' right out with the air hammer/punch.
>This method has never failed for me.
>
>JT/ric
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings.  My instincts
>tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is
>blasted then replace with new bushings.  Thoughts anyone?
>
>Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press?
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Rich

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:06:07 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Back-ass-ward 109 front brakes...

 "Tackley, John" <[email-masked]> writes:
> ...Here's a solution for that...Crown Vic master cylinder, (NAPA Pt. 
> #
> 4739467, sold as a "Safety Stop" product, @ $35). That's what I run 
> on my 88
> (info courtesy of Hank Rutherford)

I know sev. folks who run these on their 88s--is its bore diameter large
enough to work the 109 fronts?  I already have the regular rover
dual-circuit master, but if this thing costs $35 and has a big ol' bore
front and back . . .

> 
> I would also recommend a good flush of the Castrol GT-LMA (alcohol 
> works)
> and replace with Silicone fluid.  Much higher boiling point...you 
> live in CO
> mountains now, right?  This will help reduce the effects of brake 
> fade on
> long downhills.

Sadly, the problem ain't boiling fluid.  This occurs when attempting
steep stuff in 1and 2 low.  Try it, fail, stop.  Not much reason for fade
in a situation like that, I don't think.  I, well Dave Gomes really, just
re-did all my lines, but b/c I was too lazy to dissassy and rebuild my
wheel cylinders (and too cheap to rebuild the master at $55/rebuild kit)
I just stuck w/ LMA.

bill

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:50:52 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Frame bushings

OMC and I am sure others make a ball joint press.  This is a heavy duty
C-clamp with different sized plates and press fittings.  I took a new
bushing and was lucky enough to find a piece of metal very close to this
diameter.  A buddy turned it down a bit in his lathe.  Use this to remove
and install bushings, works great.
With out this addapter, the ball joint press will remove the inner steel and
rubber portion in a couple of seconds.  Can then use the sharp hacksaw or
sawzall method of cutting the outer sleave.  Hammer and punch removed these.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:54:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Rowe" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Optima battery anyone? Good price

Sorry for the cross post, but I thought this would interest both groups.
I can get a good deal (I think) on some of the Exide version of the Optima battery. Both 
the regular one and the deep cycle.
Anyone need/want one? They'd be about $90, give or take a couple. If you're 
interrested let me know. I suggest people close to the Atlanta area as I expect shipping 
would be prohibitive. If you can wait I expect to be at the ROVA event in Oct.
Not to rush, but I need to know by tomorrow afternoon EST.
Cheers

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
        in places even more inaccessible

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:11:54 -0500
From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Frames, Civilian vs Military

Hello the list,

I've got a 1967 civilian IIa Pickup truck. Is the 109 military frame
identical to the civilian frame?

If not, how tough are the modifications to make it fit?

Andy Litkowiak

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:14:58 -0500
From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis?

I'm getting conflicting information about the above noted swap.

Some are telling me that the 109 Series body, engine and tranny will
bolt directly to a Defender 110 chassis with almost no modifications.

Others tell me it is a monumental task not worth starting.

Who's right?

Andy Litkowiak

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #395
**********************************************

---

From: aaron <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:01:27 -0700

Somebody mentioned a Santana disk brake set up from Can.for $720.
Who do you order this from??
Thanks in advance,
Aaron
69 2a 88