Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #377

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:22:46 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, May 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 377

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:16:52 -0400
From: asfco <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: overrider q.

"William J. Rice" wrote:

> How far above the bumper do overriders sit?  It looks like about 2" in
> the photos.  I just dropped my bumper and some wrecked bumpers (though
> it's not really clear at first glance which are or aren't the "wrecked"
> ones) at the welders for him to clean up and put overriders on, and I'm
> wondering how far up he should mount 'em.
>
> tia,
> bill

Bill;
   there is a space of  2 1/2 inches between the top of the bumper and the
bottom of the over rider
Rgds
Steve Bradke '68 lla 88

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:22:36 -0700
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions)

Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:21:35 -0700
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Re: 2 Land Rover related questions

> >>Why do the Brit's drive on the left?<<

>> Because it's SAFER ! Research has been done to show that because the

>This is good logic, but you all were driving (horses) on the left a century
before it was necessary to change gears...

Good point.  I did some filming a couple of years ago with a stagecoach and
a full team of horses in eastern Washington.  The driver of a stagecoach
sits on the right, while the relief driver/guard sits on the left.  The big
footbrake is on the right side of the coach.  If you live in a part of the
US where Wells Fargo bank has a presence and runs TV commercials, you can
see this for yourself in the shots featuring the Concord coach they use as
their trademark.  The lighter weight, mountain version of the heavy,
flatland Condord, called a "mud wagon" also seats the driver on the right.

I haven't been observant enough to see if this "driver on the right"
applies to freight wagons and other horse-drawn vehicles in addition to
Concord coaches and mud wagons.  (For anyone really interested in seeing
what a mud wagon looks like, there is one featured in the 1960s movie
"Hombre," starring Paul Newman.  If you have never seen the movie, it's
excellent and is not at all "dated" in style- it could have been made last
week.)

Here's another puzzle, though.  In the US and Canada, railroad engine
drivers sit on the right side of their cabs, and oncoming trains pass (on a
double track mainline) to the left of each other.  Maybe I didn't word that
correctly, but when the trains pass, each driver is on the opposite
(outside) side of their cab from the passing train.  In the UK, I believe,
the driver sits on the LEFT side of the cab, and oncoming trains pass each
other on the RIGHT.

So in the US, we used to drive our wagons from the right side of the
vehicle, we still drive our trains while seated on the right side of the
engine, but we drive our cars while seated on the left side.  In the UK, I
have no idea what side the driver sat on when driving a horse-drawn coach
(I know a lot of their coaches and cabs put the driver in the center), but
they drive their trains while seated on the left side of the engine (I'm
pretty sure), but drive their cars while seated on the right side.

I suspect there's not any big, dramatic reason for any of this.  Perhaps
the reason a driver sits where he does is due more to the original layout
of the vehicle types in question.  Or perhaps someone built a bench-seat
cart to hunt wooly mamoths or Christians with, and happened to stick the
brake or flaggon-holder on whatever side, which meant he had to sit on that
side, too, so that's the way everyone else in town built their carts.

I'll tell you this; a right hand drive Series Land Rover is a hell of a lot
easier to work on than a left-hand drive Land Rover, because the clutch and
brake master cylinders are farther out in the engine bay.  There's none of
this "let's tuck the clutch master up under the left wing and make the poor
sods take the whole damn body off to get at it" sort of thing.  (I built a
hinged hatch in my wing that lets me get at the clutch master very handily,
but not until I'd done the "remove the body" thing once.)

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:38:26 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions)

>From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
I almost forgot the real reason the Brits have right hand steering.  The 
exhaust pipes on an inline engine exit the left side and run under the left 
footwell.  Designed to keep the American Drivers feet toasty warm all year 
around.  Had a Healey that would glue your sneakers to the floor board, it 
got so hot.

Aloha
Peter

>I'll tell you this; a right hand drive Series Land Rover is a hell of a lot
>easier to work on than a left-hand drive Land Rover, because the clutch and
>brake master cylinders are farther out in the engine bay.  There's none of
>this "let's tuck the clutch master up under the left wing and make the poor
>sods take the whole damn body off to get at it" sort of thing.  (I built a
>hinged hatch in my wing that lets me get at the clutch master very handily,
>but not until I'd done the "remove the body" thing once.)
>
>
>________________________
>C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>    Seattle, WA
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:43:35 -0600
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions)

At 19:22 14/05/01 -0700, C. Marin Faure, wrote
>Here's another puzzle, though.  In the US and Canada, railroad engine
>drivers sit on the right side of their cabs, and oncoming trains pass (on a
>double track mainline) to the left of each other.

And another one to add to the list.  Why do helicopter pilots 
(pilot-in-command) sit on the right with their co-joes to the left while 
aircraft PIC's sit on the left?  And isn't there something about boat 
drivers on the right as well?

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:35:03 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor

Keith
    Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell 
them for $299. Way better than a Lucas.
Bill
Great Basin Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:48:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor

On Mon, 14 May 2001 [email-masked] wrote:

:Keith
:    Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell
:them for $299. Way better than a Lucas.

the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something
going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long.  My first guess would
be an improper gound.  There should be a ground strap attached to the
starter.  I think the stock strap goes to the block.  I run mine to the
battery.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:00:08 -0500
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Zenith fix

"Ross Maylor" <[email-masked]>

>I sent this message previously and got no response so either you guys are
>dead or nobody gives a rats arse.

>Installed new Zenith 361v carb to replace old one that was worn and leaking
>gas past the O ring seal into the engine resulting in rough-rich running and
>no idle no matter how much adjustments were made. The new carb is better but
>suffers from the same problem. A thicker O ring helped only slightly. I read
>on a LR web site a brief mention of glass plate grinding that may offer help
>but no details of this were provided. Can any one expand on this?

The lazy buggers at Zenith/Solex never bothered to anneal their carbs, so
they can warp the first time they get good an hot....

The first thing it to do is anneal the bloody thing: disassemble it
completely, and put the top cover and bottom half in a 400 F degree oven
overnight.  The next day, reduce the temp by 50/hour 'til at room
temperature.  Then glass plate grind it.

Place some 200 to 400 grit carborundum paper on a plate of glass.  (Has to
be absolutely flat....)  Add a drop of oil.  Swirl the carb halves on the
paper...you'll soon see where the high/low spots are.  Take care to remove
equal amounts from both halves.  When both flanges are equally shiny,
reassemble with a new o-ring.

Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----*
  |                                                    |
  |              A. P. "Sandy" Grice                   |
  |     Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |    1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730    |
  |  (757)423-4898  (757)622-7054  FAX (757)622-7056   |
  |                                                    |
  *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:17:51 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor

How are the teeth on the ring gear???

David Scheidt wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 14 May 2001 [email-masked] wrote:
> 
> :Keith
> :    Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell
> :them for $299. Way better than a Lucas.
> 
> the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something
> going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long.  My first guess would
> be an improper gound.  There should be a ground strap attached to the
> starter.  I think the stock strap goes to the block.  I run mine to the
> battery.
> 
> --
> [email-masked]
> Bipedalism is only a fad.

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:20 -0400
From: "Richard L. Ziegler" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Distributors pollution vs. non-pollution control

Hope Peter notes that he knows of some late IIa and III L/Rs that do not
have retard type distributors on them.  Yup!  Even my '74 series III has the
advance type distributor on it.  Of course it was not imported that way (and
neither were the ones he mentions) as I wound up replacing the original
retard type distributor with the advance type for the previous owner of what
is now my '74 L/R.  You have to remember that the first things that
deteriorated on the L/Rs were the pollution control bits and pieces and
British Leyland did not resupply them so we would convert the engines to be
like the older ones by taking off the pollution control equipment as the
items wore out.  The advance type distributor fits in the same place as the
retard type distributor so once you had to replace the Zenith pollution
control carb with one that was not pollution control you might as well
change the distributor to the advance type and set the timing specs to those
of the L/Rs that were running around in the rest of the world (the same
specs that were used on earlier NADA L/Rs).
In '68 for NADA (North American Dollar Area) the only thing that was put on
to achieve pollution control was a PCV valve.
In '69 they changed the carb to the Zenith pollution control type with the
requisite retard distributor and they also added a front exhaust pipe that
incorporated an exhaust gas recirculation device that plugged into the base
area of the carb (these bits being the very first items to deteriorate and
BL had no exact replacements for them).   In addition they sealed the gas
tank system and added the charcoal filter for gasoline fumes, which were
then piped to the air intake horn.  This system was then used on the Series
III L/Rs which we first saw in the USA in the 2nd half of 1972.  Needless to
say, when British Leyland stopped importing L/Rs to NADA in 1974 they also
quit importing parts for them.
Note to TeriAnn: It is not the body seals that are being replaced it is the
rubber pieces that are between the chassis and the rear box that act as
cushions there.
Rich Ziegler, Series L/R mechanic & owner since '63

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:02:40 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO:  differential play.

I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches.  You guys
told me that this was play in the rear differential.  I have the same amount
of play in the front end also.
So is this repairable?  What is the most likely casue?
Pinion and ring wear?
Pinion bearings?
Mahalo
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:35:14 -0700
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Stalling/Rough idling SIII

Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:39:56 -0400
From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Stalling/Rough idling SIII

>When it starts, it puts out a white puff of smoke.  This always happens,
when starting cold or warm.   It did this before the new head gasket was
installed.

Just got back from vacation and read this, so you probably already have a
bunch of helpful answers.  As I'm sure you know, white smoke generally
indicates coolant getting into the cylinders, usually via a failed head
gasket or cracked block.  However, this usually continues the whole time
the engine is running.  The only reason I can think of that you would have
only a brief coolant leak with its associated white smoke is if the leak is
very tiny, and as the cylinder heats up, the crack closes.  A bit of a
stretch this, but possible.

I operated a Caterpillar road grader on a ranch in the Rockies back in the
mid-1960s.  It was a diesel, but it was started on gasoline.  You'd run the
thing on gas until a certain head temperature was reached, at which point
you switched it over to diesel.  I recall that for the first several
minutes after it was switched over, the exhaust was pure white.  Then it
gradually turned dark gray and then pretty much went away altogether.  I
don't know what caused the exhaust to run white at first (this was normal),
but perhaps there's something there that could relate to what your engine
is doing.

Of course, it is normal for a gasoline engine to emit white "smoke" when
first started, particularly on colder mornings.  This is steam, and
gradually fades away as the exhaust system warms up.  But it doesn't sound
like this is what you're seeing.

It is VERY normal for a Series engine, even when they were brand new, to
start with a puff, sometimes a BIG puff, of blue smoke.  This is because
the seals around the valves are basically worthless even when new, and with
the engine's sloppy tolerances, oil easily seeps down the valve stems and
pools on the pistons.  When you start up, all this oil burns away with the
blue cloud most Series drivers are familiar with.  It should go away after
a few seconds.  If there is coolant getting into the oil that seeps down
into the cylinders after the engine is switched off, I suppose it's
possible the startup puff could be white, not blue.

A reliable and simple way to judge if your engine is running right is to
look at the inside of the exhaust pipe after a normal drive.  Not a short
drive, but one in which the engine runs at normal operating temperature and
rpms for some time after the choke has been pushed off.  After a "normal"
drive, the inside of the pipe should be light gray or brown.  If it is dark
gray or black, you've got a problem, usually a mis-adjusted mixture, but
possibly also weak ignition, bad valve(s), etc.

>Also it is now idling idling roughly and sometimes stalls at idle.  It
seems to "pop-pop-pop" like an old 2 cycle Saab, but does not backfire,
when going down hills in gear.  It doesn't burn oil.

If you had a Zenith carburetor, I'd guess that you were suffereing from the
infamous Zenith Warp, which causes the engine to lug down and "chug"
unevenly at idle, sometimes to the point of stalling, whenever the vehicle
sitting level or pointing uphill (the warp is not a problem if the vehicle
is pointing downhill).  But you don't have a Zenith, and I don't know
anything about the care and feeding of Solex carbs.  "Pop-pop-pop" is hard
to diagnose via e-mail.  If it's a spitting-sounding "pop-pop-pop," this
could indicate a burned exhaust valve or two.  A quick-and-dirty way to
check for that is to extend a piece of paper over the end of the exhaust
pipe.  The exhaust will push the paper away.  However, if you have a bad
exhaust valve, the paper will be momentarily sucked onto the end of the
pipe when the cylinder with the bad valve goes through its intake cycle.
Of course, if you have a manifold pressure gauge installed (this and a tach
being the only two instruments worth having in a Series along with the
pressure and temp gauges), it will show you if you've got a bad valve clear
as day.   But it's been my experience that a burned valve does not cause
the engine to backfire against compression, or do anything else out of the
ordinary other than the  spitting sound of the exhaust at idle, and of
course, degraded performance.

Finally, if a couple of spark plug wires are switched round, this could
cause the uneven running you are experiencing.  Depending on how the wires
are switched, the engine may run reasonably well, or it may run horribly.
Also, if the points are mis-adjusted or worn beyond limits, this could
cause uneven firing.  So I'd suggest first making sure that the plugs are
connected to the distributor in the correct order and that the points are
in good shape and gapped properly before going on to more potentially
discouraging things like looking for burned valves.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:50:59 -0700
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:45:24 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil

>  I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under
> washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and
> the frame mounting tabs?

If you're concerned about the potential for corrosion where dissimilar
metals come in contact, you can put all the plastic washers you want
between the parts or panels, but it won't do you a lick of good if the
fastener itself contacts the metal, which it pretty much has to do if it's
going to hold them together.   Unless you use some sort of insulating
sleeve to keep the barrel and threads of the fastener from making a
conductive connection between the two pieces of metal you're joining, the
potential for electrolysis will always be there through the fastener,
especially if it screws into one or both pieces of metal, as a sheet metal
screw tends to do.

I've seen examples where people have pointed with great pride at the
wonderful insulating job they though they did using plastic, nylon, etc.
washers with fasteners that connected aluminum and steel components on a
floatplane, only to be dismayed by the repair bills when corrosion formed
around the fasteners anyway.  They had overlooked the fact that the
fastener itself formed the contact between the two metals.  Their fancy
insulating washer system looked great but accomplished nothing.  If you
want to eliminate the potential for electrolysis and its resulting
corrosion, there cannot be ANY conductive connection between the two pieces
of dissimilar metals, and that includes the fasteners themselves.  There
are several ways of accomplishing this, but they involve more than just
sticking a plastic washer underneath the metal washer at each end of a
fastener.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:47:37 -0700
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil

Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:51:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil

>I recently pulled and refurbished the intermediate floor in my 109SW and
found some semi-serious corrosion at the extreme outboard ends of the
rearmost support flange for this floor panel.  The floor panel is held in
place by large screws which screw into steel clips attached to the
support flange.  The area around the hole where the clip is located on
the flange is heavily corroded/nonexistent.

Have been on vacation, so only read your post today.  You may have already
come up with solutions but:

You could try welding or screwing in patches to cover the missing or weak
parts of the support flange, which you could then redrill for the steel
clips.

>I want to stay away from steel fasteners
in this location which I guess is susceptible to corrosion because of
mud/moisture from the rear wheel, or the lack of grease/oil thrown in the
area (no similar extent corrosion on the front intermediate floor support
flange).

I wouldn't worry too much about using steel fasteners.  I've owned my SIII
for twenty-eight years, and I've not had any serious rust problems with the
fasteners the factory used, despite their being the cheapest grade crap
that the company could buy at the time.  It's STAINLESS steel fasteners I'd
advise you to stay away from.  Coating the steel fasteners you put in with
LPS-3 (not -1 or -2) will help ward off rust, and there are other products
you can use for this purpose, too.  I use LPS-3  once a year on the
fasteners and springs on our boat trailer, and it's been pretty much
rust-free for over 15 years despite regular dippings in salt water.

>I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under
washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and
the frame mounting tabs?

Big waste of time unless you can figure out how to insulate the fastener
itself from the metal it's holding together.  As I explained in another
post, any conductive connection between two pieces of dissimilar metals
carries the potential for electrolysis and its associated corrosion.  So
you not only have to insulate the parts themselves from each other, but the
barrel, head, and threads of all the fasteners as well.

The crummy steel used in Series Land Rovers, the cheap fasteners, the tinny
washers, and the aluminum alloy skin are not all that far apart on the
Galvanic chart.  So the potential for electrolysis on the "stock"
components of a Series is not all that great.  Where you could get into
trouble is if you start using stainless steel on the vehicle, particularly
for fasteners that are going to be in conductive contact with the aluminum
alloy skin.  Your biggest problem will be rust, depending on how you use
your vehicle and the environment where you live.  Priming and painting
installed fasteners and/or coating them with LPS-3 or some other adhesive
protectant is your best defense against rust.  Makng sure there are drain
holes in the bottoms of door structures and so forth helps, too.

As I recall, you live in Oregon.  I don't believe they use salt on the
roads down there, and unless you drive a lot on the beaches, I don't think
a humid, salt-air environment is going to be a factor for you.  So giving
the new steel fasteners you install in your floor a good painting and/or
coating of LPS-3, etc. should protect your repair for many, many years.

And if you do what I do, and put off replacing a leaking front crank seal
for decades, the oil blown back under the vehicle at speed will prevent
rust from forming on ANYTHING, even if you live in a hot, humid, salty
environment out in the middle of the Pacific.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:46:46 -0700
From: "C. Marin Faure" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes

Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:20:44 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes

>I haven't had a tire shop give me any trouble about mounting 235/85/16's
>on the 5.5" rims.  Costco did refuse to mount the tires with tubes,
>however.

I have always run tubes in the bias-ply tires I have run for the past
twenty-eight years, even the tubeless versions.  However, I did not find
out until recently that if you want to put tubes inside a RADIAL tire
(which you pretty much have to do it you want a tubeless radial tire to
remain reliably mounted on an old Series Land Rover wheel) you HAVE to use
a special radial tube.  They are not all that cheap, by the way.  According
to the local expert tire shops I've talked to in the process of deciding
what new tires to put on my SIII, putting a non-radial ("normal") tube into
a radial tire will potentially cause BIG problems.  Mainly, the "normal"
tube will eventually unseat the radial tire from the rim, and Bad Things
will then happen to you as you motor down the freeway.  This may be why
Costco would not mount your tires with tubes, as they might not carry the
special radial tubes that are required.  If you were not buying radials,
then I don't know what their problem was.

________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
   Seattle, WA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:35:33 -0000
From: "David Macgregor" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor

Totaly unrelated does anyone have a lucas part number for a 90 - 2.5N/A 
diesel??

cheers

dave
S111 Lightweight 2.5D

>From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor
>Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:17:51 -0600
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [216.35.192.58] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id 
>MHotMailBCC9F6DE005E40042A22D823C03A0C280; Mon May 14 21:09:05 2001
>Received: (from majordom@localhost)by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id 
>f4F461u02780for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:06:01 -0400
>Received: from dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net 
>[206.196.128.5])by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id 
>f4F45v602776for <[email-masked]>; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:05:57 -0400
>Received: (qmail 24744 invoked by uid 0); 15 May 2001 04:05:52 -0000
>Received: from dnvrapanas86poolb143.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) 
>(65.100.177.143)  by dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 May 2001 
>04:05:52 -0000
>From [email-masked] Mon May 14 21:09:07 2001
>Message-ID: <[email-masked]>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; U)
>References: 
><[email-masked]>
>Sender: [email-masked]
>Precedence: bulk
>X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi
>
>How are the teeth on the ring gear???
>
>David Scheidt wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 14 May 2001 [email-masked] wrote:
> >
> > :Keith
> > :    Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I 
>sell
> > :them for $299. Way better than a Lucas.
> >
> > the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something
> > going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long.  My first guess 
>would
> > be an improper gound.  There should be a ground strap attached to the
> > starter.  I think the stock strap goes to the block.  I run mine to the
> > battery.
> >
> > --
> > [email-masked]
> > Bipedalism is only a fad.
>
>--
>Jim Hall
>1966 88" Elephant Chaser
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
>"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
>with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 05:57:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

On Mon, 14 May 2001, Hope Peter wrote:

:I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches.  You guys
:told me that this was play in the rear differential.  I have the same amount
:of play in the front end also.
:So is this repairable?  What is the most likely casue?

Slop in the diffs and prop shafts.  A couple inches shouldn't be a problem.
:

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 07:45:08 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix timing

Casey, yes the knurled knob jobbie is called for here. THink of it as a
vernier adjustment - coarse adjustment being turning the dizzy and fine
being tweaking the adjustment on the vacuum capsule shaft.

More the point, static timing it for a default adjustment might be a good
thing. With the ignition off, set the crank to 6BTDC on the compression
stroke. Lay the coil wire 1/4" from a grounded bit of metal and turn the
ignition on. With the pinch bolt snug but not tight, turn the dizzy full
against rotation, then bring it forward slowly.

Lock it down when the coil sparks.

This is a trick the Allison ignition guys told me when I called the tech
support guys asking how to static-time an engine w/their system....

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:51:53 -0300
From: [email-masked] (John Cranfield)
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

What's to fix?
John and Muddy

Hope Peter wrote:
> 
> I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches.  You guys
> told me that this was play in the rear differential.  I have the same amount
> of play in the front end also.
> So is this repairable?  What is the most likely casue?
> Pinion and ring wear?
> Pinion bearings?
> Mahalo
> Pete

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:07:48 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

Peter, they all do this. it's normal slop in the drivetrain.

If you can rotate the shaft and it's no more than about 45 degrees before
engagement it's well within tolerances.

There's nothing here to repair....

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:30:08 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Pertronix timing

Al, shouldn't this read "Turn the dizzy forward then turn it back until it
sparks."
The motion of the rotor shaft has to be the same with respect to the dizzy
body as it would be when running normally or the timing can be off by the
backlash of the mechanical and electrical functions.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:45 AM
> To:	[email-masked]
> Subject:	Re: LRO: Pertronix timing
> 
> 
> Casey, yes the knurled knob jobbie is called for here. THink of it as a
> vernier adjustment - coarse adjustment being turning the dizzy and fine
> being tweaking the adjustment on the vacuum capsule shaft.
> 
> More the point, static timing it for a default adjustment might be a good
> thing. With the ignition off, set the crank to 6BTDC on the compression
> stroke. Lay the coil wire 1/4" from a grounded bit of metal and turn the
> ignition on. With the pinch bolt snug but not tight, turn the dizzy full
> against rotation, then bring it forward slowly.
> 
> Lock it down when the coil sparks.
> 
> This is a trick the Allison ignition guys told me when I called the tech
> support guys asking how to static-time an engine w/their system....
> 
>                     ajr
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:00:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: DaveB <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: anti rattle springs

- --- "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]> wrote:
I did this job
> once
> and I think the thing fell out pretty promptly. 

me too. this time I unbolted the lever's socket from the shift fork.
then put the spring in. thne re-attached the socket. and tightened the
lever's mounting down at the bellhousing. Now the noisiest red lever in
the history of the universe has had it's rattle sufficiently muted so
as to not require the hat to be hung on it anymore which previous to
the above described repair was the only way to quiet it down. It does
still rattle but now it is a at a pitch that is more like a distant
sewing machine than a dentist's drill being used on hammer setting to
shatter your teeth. The sound from that lever was capable of liquefying
inner ears. I wouldn't be shy about slathering the whole socket/ball
set-up with some sort of thick grease either -although I ran out of
time and daylight so I didn't. That might create a cushion for the
vibrations that might otherwise eventually worry that inexpensive stock
anti-rattle spring loose from its mooring. 

Did he say "mooring?"
dave

=====
They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier.

David Foster Wallace

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:11:24 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Pertronix timing

Re: Forward then back:

Absolutely - this is what I get for answering a question when
coffee-deprived.....

One of the joys of being left-handed....you confuse these things easily.

Thanks, Trevor - much appreciate the catch on that one.

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:59:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ray Harder <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: generator "failure" & wiring problems...

the green "nocharge" light stayed on last night
and the guage showed a steady discharge with
the lights on.  curses -- looks like the
generator failed. maybe the voltage regulator...
 i have a spare generator, but for some reason i
would rather rebuild (and keep the spare ready 
(WHY is this?)).  thought
of the 2-3 days required to rebuild mine.  well, 
i can go a week or so before doing it.  make sure
the handcrank is onboard.  yes, there it is...

on the way to work this morning, i saw some smoke
comming from under the bonnet -- curses, there is
a wiring fire.  make it to the next light and pull over.
looked under the bonnet and -- lo and behold -- 
there lay my fan belt with a nice break in it.  my generator
problem was fixed -- the electrical wiring smoke was steam
released by the radiator cap.  since i just drive 
3 miles to work, i 
can put this one off till the weekend...  the
rover drives on -- pretty reliable 
vehicle for me...

ray harder &  lulu -- siia 61 88...

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:54:08 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: generator "failure" & wiring problems...

Y'know, Ray, most of us would have gone for the fanbelt FIRST....8*)

Seriously, though, I wouldn't drive around w/no water pump operating...not
good for the engine.

                    aj"Always start w/the obvious...."r

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:53:02 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

> :So is this repairable?  What is the most likely casue?
>
> Slop in the diffs and prop shafts.  A couple inches shouldn't be a
problem.
> :

Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the
play is definately in the differential.
It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions
(forward/reverse)
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:06:58 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor

In a message dated 5/14/01 10:06:38 PM, [email-masked] writes:

<< How are the teeth on the ring gear??? >>

Jim
    Another advantage of a Mean Green starter is not having to replace the 
ring gear on the flywheel if it is shot. This is because the drive gear on an 
MG starter engages from the opposite side from a Lucas. It pushes the drive 
gear out instead of pulling it in. Way less expensive than replacing the 
starter ring gear.

Bill
Great Basin Rovers

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:21:32 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

>Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the
>play is definately in the differential.
>It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions
>(forward/reverse)
>Pete

You and everybody else.....<grin>

Don't worry about it. You want clunks drive a Range Rover.....the Series
noise will pale in comparison.

Seriously, the play that is in there is simply the clearances in the
differentials - this has to be there to prevent the tooth pressures from
being a problem.

Don't worry about it.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:21:51 -0400
From: Tate Crumbley <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:  differential play.

<lurk mode off>

Some things never change. "Clunk when changing directions in a 30 year old 
truck." My 98 Disco does the same thing. Seems to be mostly in diffs and 
hubs. Everyone I've ever talked to says that this is normal.

Tate

<lurk mode on>

At 04:53 PM 5/14/2001 -1000, you wrote:
> > :So is this repairable?  What is the most likely casue?
> >
> > Slop in the diffs and prop shafts.  A couple inches shouldn't be a
>problem.
> > :
>
>
>Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the
>play is definately in the differential.
>It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions
>(forward/reverse)
>Pete

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:22:25 -0600
From: "Tim Czajka" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: oops

Bill Rice wrote:
>Forgot to mention fellow lister Tim Czajka, who lives right here in Ft. 
>Collins.  He was one of the madmen at frameover party number one ...
>
I probably drank more beer than helped:)  Bill and the
crew work fast.  Jim Hall and I think Dave Gomez had
the rusted up bulkhead repaired and ready to go in one
sitting.  Inspiration for getting my Series back on
the road.

It was great actually meeting some real live list
members - walking up Bill's driveway I half expected
to see a bunch of guys typing away at computer
terminals:)  Instead just the music of compressors,
arc welders, and sawzalls.  I would say Bill has
a very understanding landlady:)

Tim Czajka
1972 Series III 88
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #377
**********************************************

---

From: George Simmons <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:19:22 -0700

No Land Rover content.
As a former helicopter pilot who went through training in the
early 60's I remember being told that the reason the
pilot-in-command(PIC) sat in the right seat rather than the left
was due to the early design of the controls. A helicopter has
basically 2 control sticks one in the right hand-the cyclic-and
one in the left-the collective. The cyclic moves you frontwards
and backwards and side to side.  the collective(called so because
it controls the collective pitch on the main rotor blades)
governs the up and down motion. Granted this is very simplified
because helicopter control is seldom a single motion of one
control but rather a combination of many.  On the end of the
collective where the pilot gripped the stick was a twistgrip
throttle that controlled the engine RPM.  In the reciprocating
engine powered helicopters there was a need to manually control
the engine RPM as power was needed.  Turbine powered helicopters
do this automatically, but the recips required the pilot to
maintain a certain RPM to keep the rotor turning to fly.  This
meant that as power requirements changed the throttle had to be
twisted. As the collective was raised to get more lift and/or
airspeed the throttle had to be increased to keep the engine RPM
in the green(safe RPM range).  The early helicopters -before my
time- had only one collective and that was located in the center
of the cockpit with the two pilots on either side. This meant
that the person in the left seat had to fly with the wrong hands
on the controls, if you will, and control was difficult at best. 
Also for training purposes the student sat in the right seat and
the instructor had to fly "backwards" with hands on the wrong
controls.

George in Auburn