Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #360

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 03:53:24 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Sunday, April 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 360

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:26:25 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Shoes

I've heard of a dousing in gasoline, a brief conflagration, then a
sanding w/ fine paper as a semi-cure for contaminated brake shoes.  I
think I may even have done this, but can't quite remember.  Maybe it's
the burning gas fumes affecting my memory.

bill

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:14:41 -0500 (CDT) Ray Harder
<[email-masked]> writes:
> 
> i wiped off a set of oily shoes with acetone
> once -- the appeared as new, and i reused
> them.  it all worked out fine.  the oil leak
> wasn't that bad, though and perhaps a longer,
> worse leak would cause oil to soak in more.
> if there was a good bit of lining left, i would
> wipe and use...   ray harder
> 
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Brian F. Waltman wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:05:49 -0500
> > From: Brian F. Waltman <[email-masked]>
> > Reply-To: [email-masked]
> > To: [email-masked]
> > Subject: LRO: Brake Shoes
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > I finally figured out why my brakes seem to be a bit slow in 
> stopping me.
> > The hub seal on one of the back wheels is going bad and the 
> differential oil
> > is leaking out into my drum.  Makes it abit hard to stop in a real 
> crunch!
> > Anyway, I got a new seal in the mail the other day and will 
> replace it this
> > weekend.  The question is, once I get the oil leak stopped, do I 
> need to
> > replace the brake shoes?  I am assuming they are covered with oil. 
>  If so,
> > will I need to get new ones?
> > 
> > Yes, that's right, I'm still learning.  The hard way in most 
> cases.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance,
> > 
> > Brian Waltman
> > '69 Series IIa 88"
> > 
> > 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Ray Harder 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:08:52 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Shoes

Safest and best is to replace the shoes, most definitely. There are those
of us who have been known to clean a pair of brand-new shoes (cough...) by
burning off the old oil but this is neither desirable nor recommended (even
though it works well on riveted shoes....).

Swap 'em - it's a better idea.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:13:28 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Series II motor

Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:51:13 -0700
From: "Rich Williams II" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Series II motor

>I found the Robin's Egg Blue (or
similar) to be on later blocks.

Robin's Egg Blue was definitely used on 
the Series III in 1973, as that's what my engine 
was painted.  I also have some color brochures 
from that era, and the photos of the engine bay of 
the Series III shows the Robin's Egg Blue engine 
very clearly (the rocker covers were aluminum 
colored, by the way).
  
But I have seen in the UK engines from earlier 
years (original paint) that were gray, black,  
blue (Lister blue for those of you in the UK who 
know something about marine engines), green 
(similar to the green used on Volvo Penta diesels), 
and in one case that the owner swore was original, 
red.  The red block was in an SII, and given the 
condition of the paint, I had no trouble believing it 
was original.  Based on what 
I've seen over the years, I suspect Land Rover used 
whatever engine paint they happened to get a good 
deal on at the time.  There seemed to be no rhyme or 
reason for their color selections.

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:30:06 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:23:33 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.

>How come series rovers always sag, usually to the right side?? Don't give me 
any of the handed spring crap as it hasn't been a factor for ages.  If jeep 
suppliers can provide springs that sit level, why can't the Rover crowd make 
stock multi leaf springs do the same.

Why should they?  There seems to be an obsession among a lot of Series owners about the 
fact their vehicles don't sit level.  The fact is they never did and never will, at least 
not with the stock springs and bushings.  I think this is largely due to the nature of the 
bushings, which can resist a spring's tendency to return to its "normal" 
arch.  Also, as you may have gathered if you have worked on or changed a Land 
Rover's springs, the things are about as crudely and inconsistently made as it's 
possible to be without resorting to using wood as a component.  Rover Parts uses 
a lot of different suppliers for things like springs, and I suspect the specs are REALLY 
sloppy in terms of defining the metal and other characteristics.  So I'm willing to bet that 
the actual spring rates among even a brand new set of springs are all over the map.  Any 
consistency will be totally by accident.  The company seemed to know this, as the  
tolerances for body corner height off the floor given in the shop manual are pretty wide.

My own SIII leans with 
no consistency whatsoever, and his has done so from the day it left the factory, or at 
least the day I took delivery in 1973.  It all depends on who or what was in it last, the direction of 
the last corner it went around, and so on.  Sometimes it leans a bit to the left.  Sometimes 
it leans a bit to the right.  Sometimes it doesn't lean at all.  If you don't like the way it's sitting, 
reach up after you get out and push up or pull down on the rain gutter on your side of the vehicle 
until it's sitting the way you like it.  It will stay that way until you get back in it again.  It's the 
nature of the beast, and short of going to completely different springs and bushings, the thing's 
gonna lean one way or the other most of the time.

But who's to say your Land Rover's leaning?  
Maybe it's your part of the planet that's off kilter.  Don't overlook that possibility....

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:33:32 -0700
From: Paul Quin <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Series II motor

Marin writes: .

	"and in one case that the owner swore was original, 
	red.  The red block was in an SII, and given the 
	condition of the paint, I had no trouble believing it 
was original."

Interesting.  I'll have to do some core samples of the paint on my red SII
engine and see if I can tell whether it's original or not.

Paul in Victoria.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:41:08 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Brake Shoes

> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:05:49 -0500
> From: Brian F. Waltman <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: LRO: Brake Shoes
> 
>The question is, once I get the oil leak stopped, do I need to
> replace the brake shoes?  I am assuming they are covered with oil.  If so,
> will I need to get new ones?

You should, but you may be able to get away with not having to.  I had 
a hub seal go out once on my SIII and so much oil got into the drum they 
were grabbing on application and skidding the wheel, which is what alerted 
me to the fact there was a problem.  I replaced the hub seal, but since the 
shoes were pretty new, I simply wiped them down and cleaned them with 
solvent or detergent (can't remember which).  I did not seem to suffer any 
loss of braking power after this.  However, this occurred on a rear wheel, 
so a loss of braking power wouldn't really have been noticed as there would be no 
veering right or left, and since most of the braking is done by the front brakes, I 
wouldn't have know if there was a reduction in stopping power on the rear wheel.  
Given the metallic nature of today's brake shoes (big mistake, taking asbestos 
out of brake lining, in my opinion- lots of downsides and no upside to doing it), 
I suspect the oil will have less effect and less penetration than with the older, 
softer lining that was used in the past. 

_________________________________________
C. Marin Faure
Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
telephone (425)393-7721
mobile (206)650-5622
fax: (425)393-7741
e-mail: [email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 01 14:44:06 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Axles

>As some of you may know, I have been looking into the possibility of
>changing over to late model Dana axles, modified to fit the series rover's
>width.

Which I thought was strange because Salisbury axle assemblies are Dana 
60s.  Salisbury became the Dana division.  And of course the Salisbury 
assemblies already fit Land Rovers.

>Most conversions I have heard of are running a salisbury differential in the
>rear. This appears to be a very tough diff, perfectly capable of handling a
>stout V8 or, in my case, a large 6 cylinder.

Yes the Dana 60 (AKA Salisbury) is well regarded.

> This is common knowledge. If I
>do stick with rover axles, I'll be going to a salisbury at the rear, and a
>rover at the front.

Your basic options are:

- - Salisbury (AKA Dana 60) front and rear
- - Rover axle front & Dana 60 rear
- - Rover axles front & rear but with 4 or more pin carrier, beefier ring & 
pinion & larger axles inside the LR housing.

The rear handles all the stress in 2WD and more than 50% in 4WD.  SO it 
HAS to be stronger than the standard Rover axle.  

The fronts? I think it depends upon what your power plant is, the terrain 
you are on and how you drive.
>
>What I'm worried about is the front diff. How is this end of the equation
>holding up? Lonn and TeriAnn are using bone stock front axles,and I haven't
>heard of any breakages... yet.

I'm running stock Rover in the front except for a six pin automatic 
torque biasing diff.

With the four cylinder engine I broke the front right axle at the inside 
splines in foot plus foot snow.

I broke a ring & pinion up front.  But the vehicle was bouncing up a 
steep hill and the body got high enough that a 'U' joint on the front 
prop shaft binded and the yolk yanked the pinion nut right off the pinion 
shaft. Before things were said and done the front yolk of the diff was 
separated from the diff and hanging on the loose front end of the front 
prop shaft and the pinion gear got pushed through the ring gears.  My 
immediate cure was to tilt the front of the front diff upwards 2 degrees. 
We'll see if it helps.

While everything was apart it was noticed that there was a slight twist 
on the inner spline of the front left axle.  I probably should have 
replaced both front axles while I was at it.

I consider 40 years to be an acceptable axle life.

Other than that I've had no problems with my Rover front axle assembly.

I think that since I'm running a detuned 302 I'm probably easier on my 
drive train than these gonzo guys and their hot rod 350s.

So I'll be leaving the front axles alone unless I break something or I 
trip over a real cheap Salisbury front axle assembly.  The other option 
is a beefier ring & pinion and hitting GB Rovers up for a set of beefy 
front axles.

For the rears, I figure even though the stock Salisbury axles are pretty 
strong, mine are probably around 28 years old.  I may swap them out just 
for the fun of it on the grounds that they may be getting fatigued after 
all those years of use.

I haven't decided between big custom axles & bigger Dana spider gears or 
strengthened axles from Great Basin Rovers.  But then I haven't looked 
into either yet.

>Well, here goes. Is it safe to assume that the front axleshafts are capable
>of handling a fair amount of abuse?

They seem to.  The Fonts usually receive a little less than 50 % of the 
power in 4WD and they seem to be quite a bit stonger or more resiliant 
than the stock rear axles.

>Timm Cooper's rock crawling rig has a stock rover axle 

He just went to a Salisbury up front.  But he might have bent the weaker 
LR axle housing from  doing flaps up landings off the runway.  Timm makes 
almost every gonzo LR pilot I have seen seem tame.  So yes the front 
Salisbury is beefier than the front LR axle assembly.  The question is do 
you really need it? I can't tell you.

>I've heard of broken half shafts up front, but they seem to be a little less
>common than rear axleshaft breakage.

I've broken one front & put a slight twist in the other front.  I broke 
six rear axles.

> Maybe the front carnage can be
>attributed to ? years of hard use, and simply failed. Opinions on this?

Well, there was 38 years of use for the front axle I broke.  But I just 
putter around from place to place and take the easiest track through any 
obsticals I might find.  So golly, it could be just fatigue over time, or 
that powerful 2-1/4L engine.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:05:11 -0400
From: Stephen West-Fisher <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Series II motor

Rich Williams II wrote:

> 
> Now the only thing that really matters when we paint this stuff is that we
> LROs are satisfied with the net results.  Well, I couldn't be happier.  The
> engine is not back in the truck yet so everything is completely visible.  I
> am more than happy to email anyone images of this finished product for you
> to compare with the green that most seem to want.  I believe Pete Hope has
> some images of a new SIIa motor that is all green.  Oh, that's another
> point.  What I said about the motors not being green save for military units
> only holds for original SII motors.  I found the Robin's Egg Blue (or
> similar) to be on later blocks.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Rich Williams
> '60 SII 109 SW
I'd be interested in the pictures, I'm about ready to major my SII
engine.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:27:59 -0400
From: "Lee Jones" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Sagging springs, why.

Hmmm - My 109 is down by the LEFT side - it is RHD though.....

Lee

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Peter Ogilvie
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:24 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.

Things have been too quiet on the list, thought I'd generate some
controversy.

How come series rovers always sag, usually to the right side?? Don't give me
any of the handed spring crap as it hasn't been a factor for ages.  If jeep
suppliers can provide springs that sit level, why can't the Rover crowd make
stock multi leaf springs do the same.

I just did an RM parabolic switch and the truck sits level for the first
time since I've owned it.  Before, the truck had the typical right side down
lean.  Did the rears first and, after removal, found the stock springs to
have an 1" difference in arch.  With the parabolics on the rear, truck
appeared to set level though I didn't drive it much and park on known level
ground and measure it to verify.  Thought the sag must have been caused by
the stock rear springs, alone.  Switched the fronts and truck still sits
level, but discovered the front springs also have a 1" arch differential.
The front springs were stock, new in 1991 and have only 5,000 miles on them.
  They weren't the different arched springs as fitted to early right hand
drive vehicles as I understand these springs were never imported.  The rears
were original with with 35,000 miles on them.  Unfortunately, I didn't mark
the springs before I took them off but must assume the tall springs were on
the right side.

I've got two Rovers that I have driven regularly and both had sag problems.
Solved the problem on my 88 by putting a nasty looking, rust pitted POS
spring from the right side of my parts truck on the left side of the 88.
Spring was so bad that it broke completely as soon as I lubed it and was
able to flex.  At least the truck sat level for a while.

If every other car manufacturer and aftermarket supplier can make springs
that sit level, why can't the makers of stock Rover springs do the same???

My back loves the parabolics, by the way.  Truck rides so much smoother over
my test section.  In second gear at idle, truck used to bounce me off the
seat.  Now the truck glides over the loose rubble and bare lava.  Feels
almost like someone went out and rounded the corners off all the bumps and
lumps.  Have the usual Rocky Mountain 2 leaf front springs and fixed 3 leaf
rears on my 109 regular pickup.  Was going to do a comparison with the TI
Console parabolics but don't want to take the time to switch everything out.
  Like the idea of the helper springs on the TI's for comfort but can't
swear it has an effect in real life.  Yes I know the hang up argument with
the helpers, but had no problems in a years use on the 88.  Oh!! and the
sway argument is horse puckey.  Truck corners just as level as it did with
the stock springs.  Axle doesn't tramp to the outside of turns with bumps
like it did with stock springs, so handling in side loading is actually much
improved.  Shocks are OME installed months before the spring switch so they
aren't a factor.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally up and running
12/00.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:29:06 -0400
From: Stephen West-Fisher <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Series II motor

Stephen West-Fisher wrote:
> 
> I'd be interested in the pictures, I'm about ready to major my SII
> engine.

Silly operator, didn't mean for that to go to the whole list, sorry.

However, I just went out and had a close look at my engine, made rather
simple since it's sitting in the engine stand awaiting teardown, and the
only paint I could find was just to the rear of the left motor mount.
Grey. This is a 1960 SII 88. Under the flywheel cover it looks like the
case is painted white, but this is up against the wall right now so I
cannot be sure.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:29:12 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: IIa single system brake reservoir

Yes, you can change over to dual reservoirs without having to change the 
rest of the system. My IIa now has a separate clutch reservoir and the 
original brake fluid reservoir with the bottom feed plugged.

Keith Tanner and Basil, who's legal!
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:32:10 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: A thank you.

My goal was to get my Rover on the road, licensed and legal, by my 
birthday. Well, that was yesterday. And early in the morning, Basil passed 
his safety inspection! (much excitement ensued). It came down to the wire, 
but it happened. I'd like to thank you all for putting up with all the 
questions. I'm a happy camper.

If anyone's interested, the whole process is documented and photographed on 
my webpage - http://keith.miata.net/landy .

Keith Tanner and Basil, free to roam.

PS: right after the new plates went on, we swapped in the GM alternator and 
bypassed the hybrid system that was in the truck.
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:09:38 -0600
From: Rick Grant <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Sagging springs, why.

>
>How come series rovers always sag, usually to the right side??

As mentioned by Marin it's because of the huge tolerances allowed in the 
spring/frame/bushing assembly.

The manual states that a 1" difference side to side is acceptable.

A one inch drop across the width of a Land Rover gives a perceptible lean.

And for what it is worth, my LHD leans to the left unless I have just 
completed a hard left hand turn and stopped, then it is level.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:13:07 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Axles

Just to add something else to the equestion.  If your problem is the front
axle, you could get a Dana 44 from a scout.  Width is an inch or two wider,
so you would need to get a new wheel offset, but its a standard size bolt
pattern and pretty easy to source.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:16:11 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Sagging springs, why.

Don't have the answer to your question, but am very interested in seeing
them for my self.  Whats the driving time from Hilo to your place?  Gonna be
on island 12&13 May with some friends.  Figured maybe meet for lunch on
Saturday?  Arrive in Hilo at 8, Staying at KMC.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:43:21 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: Re:Sagging springs, why.

>  Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:13:12 -0400
>  From: Bill Adams <[email-masked]>
>  Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.
>  
>  I recommend that you stay away from TI Console springs. My 4 leaf rears
>  have sagged to the left almost from day one ( installed mid 1997).
>  Attempts at remediation through the company's owner have been fruitless
>  and I fear that I'm stuck with a for-shit suspension.
>  - -- 
>  Bill Adams
>  3D & Motion Graphics Design Director
>  International Broadcasting Bureau
>  Washington, D.C.
>  202-205-9638
>  [email-masked]

BTDT.  I bought some parabolics from Bill at Great Basin a couple of years 
ago and had a similar problem with sag to the left side.  Bill was very 
accommodating and helped with replacement springs (twice).  It still sagged 
(a lot) to the driver's side, and, no, it wasn't me.  I only weigh in at 188 
lbs.  

After he suggested having the low side re-arched at a spring shop I continued 
to have problems with sagging springs.  It seams that not all spring shops 
are equally as proficient as others.  The shop I first patronized (in 
business for 20+ years and "had lots of experience with Land Rovers") put 
more arch in the low side springs, but after about three days, the sag was 
back!

After several attempts at this mess I tried another spring shop.  They 
charged twice as much as the first, but the re-arch held.  (Both shops do 
cold vs. hot re-arching.)  The first place must not have disassembled the 
spring pack before reworking the springs, so, after several days they 
returned to their original shape / sag.  The second place stripped them down, 
reworked the leaves, and then rebuilt them.  They worked out great.

I know that it seams unfair to have to rework "new" springs, but it was the 
only way to get it to sit level.  I'm talking about between one to two inches 
difference from side to side, not just a little lean.  Not all Rovers are 
created equal, some favor the left, some favor the right, go figure.  Even 
with the stock springs, my 88 leaned to the left (DS).

If you're trying to get it to sit level, start with the rear springs first, 
you may not have to mess with the front springs.

My sincere apologies to Bill Davis at Great basin Rovers for my being a PITA. 
 If I'd known the problem was with the "experienced" spring shop in the first 
place, it would have saved a lot of grief for both of us.  Bill went the 
extra distance to help me try to solve the problem.

Now to go through the same mess with my 109.  The parabolics are worth it, 
both handling and comfort are greatly improved over the stock springs.

YMMV,

Bob Sharp
Tucson, AZ
The slumbering herd on the Rover Ranch:
52 Series I 80"
53 Series I 80"
60 Series II 88"
63 Series IIa 88"
71 Series IIa 109"
96 Discovery Series I 

"Why is it that every project you complete on a Land Rover results in 
knowledge and skills you hope you never need to use again?"

PS. Has ANYONE else NOTICED that IT is FASHIONABLE to SHOUT every OTHER word 
NOW?  Or is it just the curmudgeon in me coming out?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:52:02 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: flywheel pins

How does one remove the 3 pins in the flywheel? On a side note, to go
along with the rotor in hand stories... I noticed the teeth on the ring 
gear were worn, so I decided to turn it around. After slowly and 
carefully working it off, I proceeded to pound it back on in the same
direction. Doh!! So off again and on again..
- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 23:46:25 -0400
From: "Peter Thomson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

You do not pound ring gears- they are heated and they expand so as to just
fall into position.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Hall <[email-masked]>
To: lro <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 8:52 PM
Subject: LRO: flywheel pins

> How does one remove the 3 pins in the flywheel? On a side note, to go
> along with the rotor in hand stories... I noticed the teeth on the ring
> gear were worn, so I decided to turn it around. After slowly and
> carefully working it off, I proceeded to pound it back on in the same
> direction. Doh!! So off again and on again..
> --
> Jim Hall
> 1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
> with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:00:25 -0400
From: "Bill Fishel" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Brake Shoes

Check the surface on the distance piece that the hub seal rides on. If this isn't any good, you will be replacing the seals and degreasing the brakes again in the near future.
The hub seal race or distance piece ( take your pick at what you want to call it) is easy to replace but I've always had to split it with a chisel. I have had good luck using a light smear of grease on the new seal and distance piece for the initial installation. After a few miles on the seal it should get a light amount of lube to keep it from burning from the diff lube but shouldn't leak.

I personally won't replace the seal without replacing the distance piece. They dont cost much and the hub is already stripped far enough to do it.

Bill Fishel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 22:14:03 -0700
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Hylomar SQ 32 M

Hi all,

It's 10 PM and I'm reading through the Green Bible operation A1-32 in
preparation for the job of replaceing the rear main bearing oil seal
tomorrow.  One step calls for using Hylomar sealing compound SQ 32 M on the
seal retainers.  Is Hylomar available in Canada?  I have various Permatex
sealers and gasket compounts, would one of these work?

Tx.

Paul Quin
1961 SII 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:52:54 +0200
From: "S. Vels" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Brake Shoes

Bill Fishel wrote:

> The hub seal race or distance piece ( take your pick at what you want to call it) is easy to replace but I've always had to split it with a chisel.

On should not try to remove it without splitting it. Once it starts to rotate it can be removed. Do not damage the flange.

> I have had good luck using a light smear of grease on the new seal and distance piece for the initial installation.

Mandatory!

>
> I personally won't replace the seal without replacing the distance piece. They dont cost much and the hub is already stripped far enough to do it.

Be shure to have a tube to bang on the new race. It takes ages to ping it on with a pin hammer. A bit of heat (not much) will also ease the fit.

rgds
sv/aurens - just adding my 0.02c

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:30:08 +0100
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

Drill a small hole in the rear of the flywheel and knock the pin out with a
punch. The easy way to get the hole in the correct place is to clamp a piece
of wood/metal to the drill table, drill a pin sized hole in it, change to
the smaller drill, put flywheel face down with the pin in the hole and drill
your wee hole for the punch.

Chaz
        http://freespace.virgin.net/chaz.mackenzie/home.htm
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Hall <[email-masked]>
To: lro <[email-masked]>
Date: Saturday 28 April 2:08
Subject: LRO: flywheel pins

>How does one remove the 3 pins in the flywheel? On a side note, to go
>along with the rotor in hand stories... I noticed the teeth on the ring
>gear were worn, so I decided to turn it around. After slowly and
>carefully working it off, I proceeded to pound it back on in the same
>direction. Doh!! So off again and on again..
>--
>Jim Hall
>1966 88" Elephant Chaser
>http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
>"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
>with Jim." Mitch Stockdale
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:38:22 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

Too late now..... I actually have done this on another vehicle also and
had no problems.

Peter Thomson wrote:
> 
> You do not pound ring gears- they are heated and they expand so as to just
> fall into position.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jim Hall <[email-masked]>
> To: lro <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 8:52 PM
> Subject: LRO: flywheel pins
> 
> > How does one remove the 3 pins in the flywheel? On a side note, to go
> > along with the rotor in hand stories... I noticed the teeth on the ring
> > gear were worn, so I decided to turn it around. After slowly and
> > carefully working it off, I proceeded to pound it back on in the same
> > direction. Doh!! So off again and on again..
> > --
> > Jim Hall
> > 1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> > "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
> > with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:38:54 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

Thanks, a very good idea!!

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Drill a small hole in the rear of the flywheel and knock the pin out with a
> punch. The easy way to get the hole in the correct place is to clamp a piece
> of wood/metal to the drill table, drill a pin sized hole in it, change to
> the smaller drill, put flywheel face down with the pin in the hole and drill
> your wee hole for the punch.
> 
> Chaz
>         http://freespace.virgin.net/chaz.mackenzie/home.htm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Hall <[email-masked]>
> To: lro <[email-masked]>
> Date: Saturday 28 April 2:08
> Subject: LRO: flywheel pins
> 
> >How does one remove the 3 pins in the flywheel? On a side note, to go
> >along with the rotor in hand stories... I noticed the teeth on the ring
> >gear were worn, so I decided to turn it around. After slowly and
> >carefully working it off, I proceeded to pound it back on in the same
> >direction. Doh!! So off again and on again..
> >--
> >Jim Hall
> >1966 88" Elephant Chaser
> >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
> >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling
> >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale
> >

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 01 07:01:55 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Re: Axles

>Just to add something else to the equestion.  If your problem is the front
>axle, you could get a Dana 44 from a scout.  Width is an inch or two wider,
>so you would need to get a new wheel offset, but its a standard size bolt
>pattern and pretty easy to source.

Or you could:

A. beef up the insides, or

B. put a Salisbury (Dana 60) in the front

And only carry one spare tyre.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:29:18 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

I think that with a torch and some vise grips you can just pull them out. 
Red Zit had his flywheel resurfaced last month and the whole thing only took 
about 30 minutes so I don't think they spent much time with the pins.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:36:02 -0400
From: "Alex Maiolo" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Hylomar SQ 32 M

I assume they are talking about something like Permatex Blue Hylomar. It's a
good choice to use when there is a posibility of the excess sealant getting
into the sump. Unlike Black ATV or the like, which will not disolve and
possibly clog stuff up a little, Blue Hylomar will disolve or get chewed up
very easily. Good stuff!
If Permatex isn't available, there are other brands. I think "777" is
another.

The tech manual calls for it around water jackets too. You should be able to
find it at any medocre or better parts store.

Cheers,
Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2001 1:14 AM
Subject: LRO: Hylomar SQ 32 M

>
> Hi all,
>
> It's 10 PM and I'm reading through the Green Bible operation A1-32 in
> preparation for the job of replaceing the rear main bearing oil seal
> tomorrow.  One step calls for using Hylomar sealing compound SQ 32 M on
the
> seal retainers.  Is Hylomar available in Canada?  I have various Permatex
> sealers and gasket compounts, would one of these work?
>
> Tx.
>
> Paul Quin
> 1961 SII 88
> Victoria, BC  Canada
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 13:04:45 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: flywheel pins

I had already tried that with 0% success. I couldn't even get them to
turn.

N Forbes wrote:
> 
> I think that with a torch and some vise grips you can just pull them out.
> Red Zit had his flywheel resurfaced last month and the whole thing only took
> about 30 minutes so I don't think they spent much time with the pins.
> 
> Niall Forbes
> 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
> Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
> The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm
> 
> "See the happy moron,
> He doesn't give a damn.
> I wish I were a moron.
> My God! Perhaps I am!"
> --author unknown
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 12:16:32 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Hylomar SQ 32 M

Hylomar is Hylomar though I believe it is either now owned or distributed by 
Permatex.  Its fame goes back to British Motorcycles as a no leak gasket 
sealant.  I'd try and find it if you really want a no leak seal.  I've seen 
it here in Kona so it can't be all that rare.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
Kona Coffee Rover
1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering
     from exposure of the dark side.
1966 109 pickup 'slime'  In my garage since '90, finally up and running 
12/00.
1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava.
196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will
     certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust

>From: "Paul Quin" <[email-masked]>
>It's 10 PM and I'm reading through the Green Bible operation A1-32 in
>preparation for the job of replaceing the rear main bearing oil seal
>tomorrow.  One step calls for using Hylomar sealing compound SQ 32 M on the
>seal retainers.  Is Hylomar available in Canada?  I have various Permatex
>sealers and gasket compounts, would one of these work?
>Paul Quin

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:26:42 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Sagging springs, why.

totally correct Marin.
 Extract from Land Rover 'secret' build book: 'Tolerances in the vehicle
will be plus or minus one inch(ish)'
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Faure, Marin <[email-masked]>
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 10:30 PM
Subject: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.

> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:23:33 -1000
> From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
> Subject: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why.
>
> >How come series rovers always sag, usually to the right side?? Don't give
me
> any of the handed spring crap as it hasn't been a factor for ages.  If
jeep
> suppliers can provide springs that sit level, why can't the Rover crowd
make
> stock multi leaf springs do the same.
>
> Why should they?  There seems to be an obsession among a lot of Series
owners about the
> fact their vehicles don't sit level.  The fact is they never did and never
will, at least
> not with the stock springs and bushings.  I think this is largely due to
the nature of the
> bushings, which can resist a spring's tendency to return to its "normal"
> arch.  Also, as you may have gathered if you have worked on or changed a
Land
> Rover's springs, the things are about as crudely and inconsistently made
as it's
> possible to be without resorting to using wood as a component.  Rover
Parts uses
> a lot of different suppliers for things like springs, and I suspect the
specs are REALLY
> sloppy in terms of defining the metal and other characteristics.  So I'm
willing to bet that
> the actual spring rates among even a brand new set of springs are all over
the map.  Any
> consistency will be totally by accident.  The company seemed to know this,
as the
> tolerances for body corner height off the floor given in the shop manual
are pretty wide.
>
> My own SIII leans with
> no consistency whatsoever, and his has done so from the day it left the
factory, or at
> least the day I took delivery in 1973.  It all depends on who or what was
in it last, the direction of
> the last corner it went around, and so on.  Sometimes it leans a bit to
the left.  Sometimes
> it leans a bit to the right.  Sometimes it doesn't lean at all.  If you
don't like the way it's sitting,
> reach up after you get out and push up or pull down on the rain gutter on
your side of the vehicle
> until it's sitting the way you like it.  It will stay that way until you
get back in it again.  It's the
> nature of the beast, and short of going to completely different springs
and bushings, the thing's
> gonna lean one way or the other most of the time.
>
> But who's to say your Land Rover's leaning?
> Maybe it's your part of the planet that's off kilter.  Don't overlook that
possibility....
>
> _________________________________________
> C. Marin Faure
> Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services
> telephone (425)393-7721
> mobile (206)650-5622
> fax: (425)393-7741
> e-mail: [email-masked]
>

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #360
**********************************************