Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #349

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:48 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 349

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:39:46 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill

At rest atop the hole, and fill it to the line.

Brad Crittenden wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive?  I've
> located the filler plug with the little dipstick attached.  There is a
> single notch towards the bottom.
> 
> Q) What does the notch indicate:  high or low level?
> Q) Do you check after threading the plug all the way in or simply at rest
> atop the hole?
> 
> Seems pretty basic but I'm confused.  A quick search via Google showed
> others confused over the years but no answers.  Also, neither the Haynes
> manual nor the Land Rover manual explain it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad
> '75 Series III

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:15 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors

	[Easton Trevor A]  TeriAnn wrote 
> It is with mine.  And it is pretty much alone on a 15 amp circuit.  If it 
> automatically turns off I need to rush to the compressor and turn it's 
> switch off.  If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7 
> pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker.
	[Easton Trevor A]  A couple of options.
	Put it on a separate circuit with a slow blow fuse that will
accommodate the starting current.
	Fit a 3 Way valve between the compressor and the tank to unload the
compressor for starting. It starts with pressure port open to atmosphere and
then sitches to tank when the motor has spun up to speed.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 06:43:21 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch

>I think the best thing for me to do is to continue bodging away with the 
>help of my five drunken monkeys and just never sell the damn thing.

I have a friend who owns a 289 AC Cobra.  He is the second owner and the 
car was just a few years old when he bought it.

He tells people he is his own dreaded previous owner.  He had no idea he 
was going to keep the car so long and that it was ever going to be worth 
anything.

He keeps running across those bodges he did 20 plus years ago and forgot 
about.  I occasionally do the same with The Green Rover.  I can't help 
but wonder what was going through my head at the time.

Morals to the story; don't settle for bodges because if you keep the LR 
they will come back and haunt you and document your wiring.

There have been a number of times I have saved lots of hours making 
repairs or additional electrical modifications to The Green Rover because 
I do two things:  I keep current wiring diagrams of the whole car the way 
it really is and I buy the striped wire and maintain the Lucas wire 
colour code.

My second car came to me after an engine fire.  I rewired it completely 
in a single coloured wire.  When I went to test everything out became 
fully aware of the extent of my folly.  But I got such a deal on this 
roll of wire with this nifty Teflon insulation.

Famous last words "But it seemed like such a good idea at the time!"

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:00:12 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing

Let me get the axles underneath it. When it has 8 bolt wheels, I'll snap
some pictures...

J-L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Luis Ml Gutiérrez <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing

> I'm sorry, Jean-Leon, but Bruce has got a point here.
> You've got a moral obligation to all of us.
>
>
> Luis M.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce D. Fowler <[email-masked]>
> To: <[email-masked]>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:24 AM
> Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jean-Leon Morin
> >
> >
> > :Nope. I'd be too ashamed to post it. The truth is, after such long
hours,
> > it
> > :still looks like a clapped out IIA, with trailer taillights, rusted out
> > :doortops, and a peeling roof.
> >
> > : "Never been into looks."
> >
> > What?
> > If your not into "looks" then post a snap of it.
> >
> > Bruce F.
> > PS.Timshel dosn't look much better.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 07/03/01
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:13:18 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing

Bruce? Do you have a picture of it? Send it to me!

If you do, I'll put in on my webpage! I'm not ashamed of people seeing it.
They might quit bugging me about how originality must be preserved at all
costs. Hey, Valdez isn't meant to be pretty. Pretty Land-Rovers are NOT the
way to have fun im my opinion.

Valdez is rough, I have said that. Luis, if you are expecting a conversion
beautifully executed, a la Timm Cooper, or TeriAnn, you are out of luck.
There are more dents in Valdy than a golf ball, and the rear springs on it
right now are totally mismatched, one is from Bruce Fowler's parts truck,
which happens to be an 88. Lean, big time.

But, after repeated requests from the passengers, I might actually devote
some time to the little things, once I get the axles and brakes in. I have
found a local source for the SUPER CARPET that Bruce uses, so I might try
and kill the noise. That should be nice. Maybe paint the roof a nice white,
or something. I dunno.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 07:16:38 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors

>>If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7
>>pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker.
>
>Teriann, are you sure the compressor's unloader valve is working right?
>This is all the classic symptoms of a stuck unloader valve - compressor's
>don't start well against back pressure.

Golly, what's an unloader valve?  DO cheap compressors have them?

I like it when my file system actually works.  I just pulled out the 
manual to my Rand 4000 compressor and low & behold there is someting 
called a "unloader valve"

I'll have to check it out.  Thanks for the suggestion!!

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:22:52 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors)

>
> Is this before or after you beat your head against the wall trying to
figure
> out why that bucking bar you've bought just won't fit into your air
hammer?
> -todd

No, no, no.  Beat your head against the bucking bar, that way you aren't
just wasting the energy.  Newton or Einstein or someone figured out that
there was a finite supply of energy.  If you use it on one thing, it's
robbed from somewhere else.  That's why I sit on the sofa so much.  Figure
if I sit here every night after work and let the wife take care of the house
chores, there will still be enough potential energy available for me to work
on the Rover on the weekends.  The difficult part is to not waste any energy
arguing with her about it.  She tricked me once, and I wasted so much energy
in a silly little hour long arguemnt that I couldn't work on the Rover for
over a month.
Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:58:48 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch

> >F*&! the future owner!  Did the PO do you any favors.....NO!  
> Consider it
> >your duty to:
> >a, b, c...

e.  Weld wobbly door tops to the door bottoms (sloppily, and be sure to
weld the galv trim to both) and weld together all the galvy. trim capping
the tub.  This greatly increases the structural integrity of the vehicle
and makes removing all the trim that you painted over a nice afternoon
job.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:53:02 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO:in lew of?

Since Pete asked this as a question, I'll answer it.
in lew (lou??) of 

It's "in lieu of."  You should've known no French spelling could be as
simple as "lew" or "lou."

bill

On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:50:28 -1000 "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
writes:
> > Just don't try and figure out how to use a torque wrench as part of 
> the
> > operation.
> >
> 
> Uhm, use the 1/2" drive, in 1 foot increments, plated and polished 
> torque
> wrench in lew (lou??) of the bucking bar right??
> Pete
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:49:35 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle

Jeeze, I really don't know when all this hype is about...

Valdez is... a 66 109 plain - O regular, with series III wings, and the
breakfast is moved forward one inch to accomodate the radiator, so the hood
sits up too high. The tranny hump is a huge affair, the same height as the
seatbox, same width as the bulkhead center section, and was cobble together
in an hour using diamond plate aluminum and angle aluminum. It looks ugly,
and you can see the ground through the panel gaps. I have to redo it with a
couple of roadsigns. The frame is custom, so it has about 3" more ground
clearance than a regular rover, and the frame rails are basically rock
sliders. The underhood looks like I sprayed it in oil, as I was battling
major oil leakage a while back, and am waiting for warmer weather to clean
up the motor and paint it cat yellow, as well as tidy up all the wiring and
basically make the Ford engine look like it came from the factory. I am
actually going to wrap my wiring harnesses in hockey tape as it looks like
the braided stuff the factory used.

Most of the modifications are not apparent on the outside, unless you really
really look and notice the bumpers, frame rails, etc. It's just a regular
109 on the outside, with the paint peeling off of the roof. The interior is
a mess, loaded with all kinds of dirt and crud. Not a nice place.

If course, the new axles will make it look quite different on the outside,
and I am still debating whether I will do a spring over or leave the springs
as is. I might have to do a spring over, since the axles were destind to be
run under the spring, on the donor vehicle. This gives me monstrous lift,
which is NOT what I'm after. 2" higher would be about the limit, but I may
have to go higher if I can't get the axles to fit where I want them.

Many of the mods I have debated on the list, such as the axle swap, the
larger tires, the spring over, are at the "I have the parts accumulated, but
not the time" stage. But, hey, college exams are over in a week, and then I
demanded that my job leave me alone for a period of two weeks, for me to get
some work done to the beast. The axles will be first, as I need the higher
gears and would like the wider track and improved turning radius, as well as
the locking diffs, after that, I'll move on to beautification, and then to
the gizmo stage, as in roll bar, onboard air, spare carrier, hilift mounting
spot, roof rack...

It never ends. Still want a picture? It'll be obsolete in two months, as
I'll have a completely different animal.  That goes Psssht.

J-L

______________________________________________________
Jean-Leon Morin
AKA "Dr. Detroit"

Valdez - 1966 IIA 109 freak
Slagmobile - 195? II parts bin

- ----- Original Message -----
From: David Pillekers <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:50 AM
Subject: LRO: Pictures of JL's vehicle

> Hello all,
>
> JL, if you want to email me a picture I can bung it in my ISP account
> and post the URL.
>
> I must admit I'm more than a little curious about how valdez looks...
>
> BTW, next time your going to make jokes about air brake noises and
> jeeps, can you post a spoilers. My coworkers think I'm losing it cos I'm
> laughing at my keyboard again.
>
> Reminds me of a defender I saw at one point. It was a 110 truck cab in
> the sorta offwhite grey colour. Back of it had a canvas cover. Had a
> modded v8 running 35 inch swampers and air lockers at both ends. This
> thing emerged, in no great hurry, from a mud pit, chugged along to some
> slightly dryer ground, and as she stoped the there was the woooshh of
> the air. The combined effect off the sounds and the look of the vehicle
> was impressive. Mind you, I'd just made it through the same pit with
> 235/85R16 MT's in a stock vehicle. But from a dramatic point of view it
> was an impressive entrance. :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> David. Melb, Australia - who really want a Garage again so he can re
> accumulate all the good toys
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:45:00 
From: "Chris Oles" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: re:  EMD locos **no rover content ***

Ivan,

I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do.  I was amazed at the 
number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around.  I still stop and wonder at the 
brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and 
identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric 
manufacturers.  Thanks for taking me down memory lane!

Chris
70 SIIa 88

"And then there was "Christine," an Alco DL-109, a diesel locomotive
styled by Raymond Loewy, owned by Rock Island (number 621) and repowered
by EMD.  EMD is ElectroMotive Division, General Motors.  The DL-109
http://exotic.railfan.net/alcodl109.htm is one of the *classic*
locomotives; "
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:58:42 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors

>Golly, what's an unloader valve?  DO cheap compressors have them?

Yes, it should.

An unloader valve is what Trevor described - it's a valve that unloads the
pressure on the compressor when it stops pumping. Basically, it's a check
valve with a bleed hole in it - the compressor stops pumping, the bleeder
releases the line pressure, and the check valve shuts off the tank
connection to keep it from losing all its air.

The one on my compressor (the head is an oilless 3-cylinder monster that
used to run a whole dentist's office of tools and a 100-gallon tank) used
to stick occasionally - a good whack with a wrench makes it unstick....8*)

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:01:33 -0400
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Transferred

"Keith Armstrong" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>Oh sure!

>All this talk about how robust the Series x-fer case is and I limp home in
>low this afternoon after a short bout of really nasty growling :(

>Thanks guys!

Nigel's Disease strikes again!  

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                 www.roav.org                      |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:01:35 -0400
From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Powder coat

"Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match 
>Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't 
>care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets 
>whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating?  

"Almond" as applied to 90% of the refrigerators in the US is close enough
to 'limestone' for government purposes.  The paint place shouldn't have any
problems.  Powder coat is kinda brittle, tho'...I would think it would chip
too easily, especially around the rims where the tire machine runs the bead
seating/breaking arm thingy.  I think powder coat is better suited to
places that don't get such regular impacts, like bumpers and such.  There
was a place near me that did hot rod conversions and whatnot and had ovens
big enough to bake entire frames.  A powder coated frame sure looked great,
though.

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                 www.roav.org                      |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:00:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Powder coating question

John and Muddy wrote:

It seems to me that powder coating wheels would be a waste of time and
effort.
. Once the integrity of the coat is lost
moisture will penetrate and cause rust under coat.
John and Muddy
[SJH]
Indeed.  My brother took his 88's wheels to the powdercoater Marin   
mentions, in Tacoma, and had his PC'd limestone.  The lg holes are not   
the problem he's mentioned.  Instead, where the "spokes"  meet the rim,   
the PC'er was unable to get penetration of the powder, and rust has taken   
hold in that crack, evidenced by rust stains.  And this after about a   
year, and under a relatively salt free Fircrest (Tacoma)  Washington   
environment.  They do not live near the sound.

The brush bar I recently removed and sold had been PC'd and it had   
started to peel and rust near the sharp edges of the steel plate mounts.   
 Of course, PC'ing is cheap enough that things like a brush bar can be   
removed and recoated, but I would stick with paint for wheels.  I've   
determined only to PC interior bits.

My 2 cents.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:25:28 -0600
From: Ivan Van Laningham <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: re:  EMD locos **no rover content ***

Hi All--

Chris Oles wrote:
> 
> Ivan,
> 
> I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do.  I was amazed at the
> number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around.  I still stop and wonder at the
> brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and
> identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric
> manufacturers.  Thanks for taking me down memory lane!
> 

<g>  I remember when there were *three* major builders.  And I went to
EMDs 50th Anniversary party in LaGrange.  I still have pictures from
that event.  I'll post them when I get around to scanning them.

I've even got shots of a shortline running Fairbanks-Morse down in
Southern Indiana.  Now, *there* was an engine to die for;-)

<put-a-submarine-engine-in-a-landy>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-)
- ----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Symantec
http://www.pauahtun.org 
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:18:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously

A friend of mine just called me at work.  He's picking up his rebuilt   
transmission and will be installing it and I guess his OD over the next   
day or so.  He asked what the torque setting for the OD nut is.   
 Apparently he doesn't have the printout from OVLR's site of the Fairey   
manual (I think it has the setting), and I don't have the info here at   
work.  Can someone post the figure so I can pass it to him?

Thanks

Simon

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This message and any attachments to it are   
intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or   
confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are   
not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any   
attachments to it, or to take any action based on them.  If you have   
received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone   
at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of   
this message.

Simon J. Harding
Attorney at Law
Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C.
503.223.4131
[email-masked]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:45:23 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously

100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the
blunt chisel.....8*)

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:37 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: re:  EMD locos **no rover content ***

<put-a-submarine-engine-in-a-landy>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-)

Care to explain this? I assume waht you're getting at here is that some
Fairbanks-Morse Deisel locos used old WWII sub engines?

Do tell....sounds fascinating.

                    ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:00:15 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Fairey overdrive oil fill

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:00:02 -0400
From: "Brad Crittenden" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill

>Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive?

I have always filled the Fairey overdrive with lube oil to the notch 
in the dipstick with the dipstick unscrewed. In other words, stick 
the thing in the hole until the cap rests on the housing, but don't 
screw it in.  This will ensure that the overdrive has sufficient oil for 
lubrication.

Bear in mind that Fairey overdrives can lose oil fairly quickly 
by blowing it out the breather hole in the cap.  If you drive your 
Land Rover a lot, as I did my SIII for the first ten years I owned it 
as a daily driver, the overdrive oil level should be checked once a 
week.  I can assure you that if you let the level run low even a bit, 
the in-out sleeved drive shaft will bind and pop the overdrive out of 
gear.  Let this happen three or four times, as I did, and the small 
teeth on the overdrive input gear will finally shear and take the mating 
teeth on the inside of the overdrive input shaft with them.  End of 
overdrive, and you face a total rebuild, as other damage is done 
internally as well.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:00:36 -0700
From: "Hoult, Bryan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Powder coating question

Marin,

My neighbor has a very nice late IIa with limestone wheels he had powder
coated.  The company that dipped them is on the waterfront in Everett just
north of the 12th ave. boat ramp - but I don't recall their name.  The color
was simply called "off-white" and it is such a close match to limestone that
it's almost impossible to note a difference.  He's the type that would walk
around with a permanent pucker if the color match wasn't almost exact.

He doesn't off-road his truck since, like you, he's owned it since the early
70's and it is in very good original condition.  For this reason, the powder
coat on the wheels is great.  My truck gets thrashed, so I would only
consider galvanizing or painting my wheels.  The 109 will get galvanized
SIII (deeper offset) wheels when it's ready.

If you'd like to pursue the coating company in Everett, I'll hunt it down
for you.

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Faure, Marin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:17 PM
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group'
Subject: LRO: Powder coating question

How tough is powder coating?  At some point in the 
not-too-distant future I need to have my SIII's wheels 
sandblasted and repainted as a couple of them have some 
surface rust and the paint on all of them is pretty sorry.  My 
initial thought was to have all five wheels sandblasted, and 
then I would primer them and paint them with a commercial 
spray color that I've used before that more or less resembles 
Limestone (my entire vehicle and the wheels were Limestone 
from the factory).
  
Several years ago, when I was first contemplating doing this, 
a friend of mine in N. California who was in the Land Rover 
parts business but isn't anymore suggested powder coating 
instead of painting.  I located an outfit in Tacoma that did 
powder coating, but for various reasons I never got around 
to actually doing anything about it.

Now that my SIII needs new tires, I thought it might be a 
good opportunity to spruce up the wheels at the same time.  
The advantage of painting them is that it's easy to touch them 
up if the paint gets scratched off.  The advantage (so far as 
I know) of powder coating is that it looks better and is maybe 
tougher than paint.

BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match 
Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't 
care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets 
whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating?  In the 
opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is 
powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa?
Thanks.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:03:59 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Delco Alternator

Miss Golightly was bastardized last night with a Delco Alternator so it's
goodbye to those concours prizes :-)

Drove her to the office today as a special treat (And to be sure all worked
well for this weekends Auto Flea Market at Ancaster Fairground)

Thanks AJR for the information on the OVLR site. Followed your installation
and it was a breeze. Just one change, I decided it was better to relieve the
mounting bracket for the necessary clearance rather than weaken the
alternator casting by cutting away the flange.

BTW the alternator was a two pulley unit from the wreckers at $35 Can.
Vehicle of origin-who knows, it came from a large pile of GM alternators and
included a warranty. (If it don't work, we'll exchange it)

I can fit a power steering pump using the spare pulley!!
Then all I'll need is a power steering box.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:13:35 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Powder coating

Based on the input I've gotten on and off 
the list, and my own reasoning, I think the 
best thing to do to my wheels is have them 
sandblasted to remove the old paint and 
surface rust, and then prime and paint them.  
I don't want to galvanize them, as paint tends 
to have a tough time sticking to galvanizing, 
and I don't want silver wheels.  Thanks 
for the input- it seems powder coating is 
more suited for the show-car crowd.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:15:39 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously

You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer.

> 100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the
> blunt chisel.....8*)
> 
>                     ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:38 -0700
From: "Hoult, Bryan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch

I only make the reference to the drunk monkeys because I am projecting my
personal experience for purposes of supposition.  Had I not actually
employed drunken monkeys on several occasions myself, I would not be able to
draw the conclusion the PO's of my LR's must have.  

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

- -----Original Message-----
From: Rick Grant [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:29 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch

At 18:40 19/04/01 -0700, Hoult, Bryan, wrote
>F*&! the future owner!  Did the PO do you any favors.....NO!  Consider it
>your duty to:
>
>a.  Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5
>monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck.

This actually quite terrifies me.  Despite the nonsense I've had to undo 
from the previous PO's, especially wiring, with my machine, I just know 
that I am creating any number of ludicrous PO situations.  While I have no 
intention of selling anytime soon, I still don't want to be in a position 
some day of reading this list and seeing reams of outrageous laughter and 
indignation over something that I had done and that some hapless new owner 
has had to deal with.

I think the best thing for me to do is to continue bodging away with the 
help of my five drunken monkeys and just never sell the damn thing.

Come to think of it, the monkeys are usually too drunk to help in any way 
so any PO issues are mine entirely, and I fear there are likely to be a 
number of them.

                                             Rick Grant

  				  1959 Series II   "88"
				  VORIZO

Rick Grant Communications
Media and Crisis Management
Calgary Ottawa
www.rickgrant.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:37:45 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Delco Alternator

Nyet prablem, tovarich. I'll look forward to seeing it at OVLR in June.

                    Alan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:41:44 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously

Trevor, please go to the Brittanica site and look up the term HUMOR.....8*)

          ajr

>You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer.

>> blunt chisel.....8*)
>                     ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:48:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - 

The impact velocity of the two pound sledge bears a direct correlation to   
the number of ounces of fermented malt beverage contained within each   
nonferrous metal or silica based material fermented beverage   
containerization device, of course also accounting for the weight of each   
said containerization device, the number of units consumed and the time   
over which consumed.  Account must also be taken of the dangerous and   
haphazard manner in which the two pound sledge may be wielded once a   
certain threshold amount of fermented malt beverage is consumed (this   
level varies from one individual to the next).  We must accept that the   
force applied depends entirely on the blow landing on the intended target   
and not some other part of the land rover or the metacarpal phalanges   
(fingers) of the subject.  Finally, account must be taken of the nature   
and quality of the malt beverage as well as of whether the malt beverage   
has been subjected to a distillation and aging process rendering it a   
beverage commonly referred to as scotch, or if it has not, and has   
instead been processed into "beer."  thus my reference to a sixer of PBR.   
 I admit leaving out one significant detail, that being whether or not   
the sixer is of "pounders"  or the usual 12 ounce nonferrous metal   
containerization units.  Recent studies have revealed no, repeat no   
significant variation in the level of force applied by nine out of ten   
land rover owners surveyed when a comparison was made between the larger   
(big mout, aka "guzzler") pop tab openings in said nonferrous metal   
containerization units versus the older and now obsolete smaller   
openings.

Simon "I still need the figure folks" Harding

 -----Original Message-----
From:	Easton Trevor A [SMTP:[email-masked]]
Sent:	Friday, April 20, 2001 12:16 PM
To:	[email-masked]; [email-masked]; SJH;   
[email-masked]
Subject:	RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously

You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer.

> 100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the
> blunt chisel.....8*)
>
>                     ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:00:41 -0500
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

Is that a trick question?

Luis M.
:-)

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]' <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:06 AM
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

> So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest?
> 
> 
> 

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 16/04/01

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:02:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: cutting off bolts

	Is a cutoff wheel significantly better than a normal metal grinding   
wheel speedwise?  I have to remove some seriously nasty seized rusty   
screws (the broadheaded slotted screws) securing the middle floor in my   
109 SW as well as some bolts holding in my seat brackets.  PO had carpet   
back there and every bolt rusted up nicely, some so bad there's little   
evidence of a slot!!  I want to do the job faster but I was wondering is   
there a significant difference here (I assume there is)  in terms of   
speed, and is a cutoff wheel a good idea when working close to the au   
floor panel which I want to avoid damaging?  I want to proceed faster,   
but don't want to damage anything.  I was thinking a cutoff wheel could   
simply slice down through the head of each screw to floor or washer level   
and a chisel would then make quick work of the head.  Grinder (4.5 inch   
dewalt)  just seems kinda slow.

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:08:30 -0500
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

Anyway, it is encouraging to be set apart from the "standard"
Thanks, John.

Luis M.

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Cranfield <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

> 
> 
> Easton Trevor A wrote:
> > 
> > So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest?
> 
> In spite of your little pun there Trevor I can vouch for
> the honesty and integrity of Luis. I have never seen anyone so
> determined to pay a $10 bill.
> John and Muddy
> 

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 16/04/01

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:23:59 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed -

Simon "I still need the figure folks" Harding

And I gave it to you - popular mythology (or the Fairey manual) states 100
foot-pounds...I looked it up....

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:26 -0400
From: "Martin Rothman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Koenig winch update

Hi all,

I have been busy working away on my ex-Willis Jeep Koenig winch, adapting it 
to my S1-80".  This winch is somewhat different than the LR specific, crank 
drive Koenig winch, although it looks almost the same.

The mount points are at the centerline of the winch drum, rather than the 
base of the clutch case as in the LR version. Also, it doesn't have the 
chain drive-transfer case with dog clutch assembly to connect to the LR 
crankshaft. Instead, the winch input driveshaft extends 2" out from the back 
of the winch, through a cast aluminum mounting plate.  Originally, a PTO 
driven driveshaft connected direcly to this input shaft. On the other side 
of the winch drum, the support casting is much shallower than the LR version 
(similar to the Koenig LR PTO winch).

First I had to determine how to drive the winch.  I looked into building my 
own crank drive assembly, AKA the Koenig LR winch.  That is, until I 
borrowed an actual Koenig LR crank drive winch and took apart the chain case 
to see what was inside to engage and disengage it from the LR crankshaft.

It has what is known as a dog clutch engage/release mechanism.  For any that 
don't know, this is a mechanical affair that consists of two major parts, a 
driveshaft with two arms sticking out that spin like the blades of a 
lawnmower, and a transfer shaft with two forks.  The transfer shaft rides on 
the driveshaft and is slid into the driveshaft arms so that the forks engage 
the arms, driving the winch.(clear as mud, eh?) It is pulled back to release 
the winch.

This is a BRUTAL affair that doesn't deserve the name "clutch". Engaging the 
clutch while the engine is running puts untold impact load on the 
crankshaft.  I have heard horror stories of broken cranks caused by owners 
banging the clutch into and out of drive mode, although I don't any first 
hand knowlege myself.

Thus I decided to look for another way to drive the winch.  OK, PTO?  Well, 
on an 80" it is almost impossible to route the various driveshafts to the 
winch.  Just not enough room.  If I had a RH drive 80" I might have been 
able to do it, but not with the pitman arm on the LH side.  I also thought 
about adapting a motorcycle clutch to the winch and driving it from the 
crankshaft. A bit too much effort to do all the machining to adapt it, and 
what about keeping it clean in the mud?  Got to be another solution.

At this point one of my friends suggested that I drive it hydraulically like 
the LR S11 factory hyd winch.  My response was "What factory LR S11 hyd 
winch?"  Now, you have to remember that I have some serious gaps in my LR 
knowledge.  If it was made after 1958, I have little knowledge of it.  In 
fact, I have only owned one LR and that is my 1952 S1 80". OK, get a S11 
manual and look at the diagrams.  This could work.  The hyd pump is driven 
from the pto, the hyd motor is connected to the winch, there is a hyd 
control valve, a 4 gal hyd fluid reservoir tank, various fittings, a filter 
and a bunch of pressure lines connecting everything.

OK, go on the internet and start learning about hydraulics.  It turns out 
that for 8000lb of line pull, at 30 ft/min wind in rate, I need 500 in/lb of 
torque at the input shaft.  This translates to a hydraulic motor/pump 
combination that pumps 10gpm at 1000rpm at ~1000 psi.  (Whew! Got all that?)

Out I go to price this stuff at my local hyd dealer.  I almost passed out at 
the prices.  $300 for motor, $600 for pump, $150 for ctl valve, $250 for 
lines, $200 for all the filters and fittings .... even at Canadian $$'s this 
is pricey, and doesn't even include the costs of building a tank or frame to 
mount the winch!  Well after several weeks and some real serious sleuthing, 
I managed to source used motor, pump and valve for the princely sum of 
Cdn$300. Even comes with a 90 day warranty.

Currently, a friend and I have welded up a new front bumper with the winch 
mounts built in, the winch rear mounting frame with built in mounts for the 
hyd motor, and have mounted the unit to the 80".  Looks pretty good.

Over the next month I will install a PTO in my transmission and mount the 
pump to it.  Then I will build the reservoir tank, get the pressure lines 
made up and mounted, and try it out.

Work, work, work, work... I sure hope it is going to be worth it.  My first 
roll of pictures should be developed this weekend. :)

Martin Rothman

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------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #349
**********************************************