Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #345

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:08:26 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 345

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:40:00 -0700
From: SJH <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool

	Yawn.  Come on.  Its not an F-16 or Ferrari for crying out loud.  I said   
I've had NO problems over the last year with tranny/OD reliability since   
tightening the nut "incorrectly"  (due to the fact I didn't have the   
"correct"  tool and couldn't see dropping 30 bones on it at the time).   
 I've never complained about tranny/OD reliability.

	Tight is tight.  I've planned on pulling the OD and checking the torque   
on the nut, but don't have the heart to do that as I see it as mucking   
with something that ain't broke.  What's the consequence if it's too   
tight?  I can assure you I put the thing on there as tight as I could   
drive it on, at the advice of some of the rover wise in these parts, and   
when we are talking about torques as high as 95 foot pounds, I just can't   
see measuring it exactly being a concern:  just get it on there as tight   
as you humanly can, and it'll be ok.  Can you tell me there's a   
significant difference between 80, 90, 100 or even 125 foot pounds on   
that particular nut?  It's very fine thread, and there's the lock washer,   
so if you tighten it to gut popping tight and lock the tabs, then no   
worries, it seems to me.

In addition, having the ability to do some thing "incorrectly"  can be a   
plus when it means you can make a fix without some special tool"  that   
when you need it is sitting on your bench 100 miles away.  There is after   
all, a limit to what you can/should weight yourself and your rig down   
with.  Improvise.  Adapt.  Overcome.

Simon

Oh, OK.  This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover   

owners.  People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly.  I sure
wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land
Rovers are.  It's not the car's fault.

TeriAnn Wakeman               Marigold Ltd.
Santa Cruz, California        Web design, site updating, testing
[email-masked]      search engine optimization, graphics
                              and more

http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:57:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote:

:
:check out the coil leads. The small, 12 volt ones, not the fat cable. A pos
:earth will have the negative leading to the ignition key, positive to earth,
:through the points, right? But, then again, you knew that, right ;-). The
:polarity should be written on the coil, if not....

Of course, the coil works just fine hooked up backwards.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:14:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote:

> Your truck has a generator on it, or an alternator? It is definitely neg
> earth if it has either a rover alternator, or a bastardization.

Not necessarily.  Lucas made positive earth alternators.  Just take an
older Lucas and reverse the diodes to change between polarities...

> If in doubt, just convert the bloody thing!

To positive earth!

------------------------------

Date: 18 Apr 2001 17:19:50 -0700
From: Bryan Hoult <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool

On Wed, 18 April 2001, SJH wrote:

> >     Tight is tight.

Finally, somebody is making sense!

Bryan
62 88
70 109 "Genie"

________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:25:43 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: special tool

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool

>>whatsa big deal?  Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer   
>junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel.  That   
>and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal.  Torque be damned, tighten the   
>thing as tight as you can get it.

>Oh, OK.  This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover 
owners.  People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly.  I sure 
wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land 
Rovers are.  It's not the car's fault.

The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end 
of the mainshaft on some vehicles.  In a correspondence with someone off-list, 
I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type nut, and 
this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual.  But 
many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal 
tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?")  Anyway, this obviously 
explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard 
hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it.  I don't know 
if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after 
such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to resort 
to a normal nut on the day they made mine.  But on mine, the instructions 
simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against 
two sides of the hex nut.

My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a standard 
number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the stupid 
castleated thing an put on a normal nut?  Making a washer with tabs to bend up 
against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer 
for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut.  I don't know because one of the 
the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold up against a hex 
nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey realized 
they could be in there).

I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more money 
than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or you may not 
install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on.  But in the case 
of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the problem go 
away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special tool 
(or a bar and a rock).
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:12:11 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

Why bother when dealing with Dixon ;-)

Was not aware of Lucasoid + earth alternators. Thanks, I'm a little less
dumb now.

Let's put it this way. If you want to be cool, keep the + ground.  If you
wanna be normal (not necessarily a good thing) do like the rest of us.

Bastardize.

______________________________________________________
Jean-Leon Morin
AKA "Dr. Detroit"

Valdez - 1966 IIA 109 freak
Slagmobile - 195? II parts bin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:13:31 +1000
From: Mark Sullivan <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Re: special tool

Yes castellated is the correct term ,they resemble an "old english castle
tower" with the up  and down stonework where olde archers used to fire and
hide. normally used when a pin is inserted through the up and down section
to "lock the nut on. Boy I bet that sounds confusing however they do work
but is there a hole in the main shaft to put the pin thru ?? As allready
noted it is an odd shaped nut (normally larger than standard ) which allows
amateur mechanics to tighten down a bit more without rounding the flats of
the nut ???

					Mark Sullivan 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Faure, Marin [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2001 10:26 AM
To: 'Land Rover Mail Group'
Subject: LRO: Re: special tool

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700
From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool

>>whatsa big deal?  Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer

>junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel.  That   
>and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal.  Torque be damned, tighten the

>thing as tight as you can get it.

>Oh, OK.  This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover 
owners.  People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly.  I sure 
wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land 
Rovers are.  It's not the car's fault.

The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end 
of the mainshaft on some vehicles.  In a correspondence with someone
off-list, 
I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type
nut, and 
this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual.  But 
many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal 
tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?")  Anyway, this obviously 
explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard 
hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it.  I don't know 
if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after 
such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to
resort 
to a normal nut on the day they made mine.  But on mine, the instructions 
simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against 
two sides of the hex nut.

My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a
standard 
number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the
stupid 
castleated thing an put on a normal nut?  Making a washer with tabs to bend
up 
against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer 
for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut.  I don't know because
one of the 
the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold
up against a hex 
nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey
realized 
they could be in there).

I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more
money 
than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or
you may not 
install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on.  But in
the case 
of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the
problem go 
away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special
tool 
(or a bar and a rock).
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:27:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom Rowe" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: 300TDI (ridiculous) prices?

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:12:47 +0200, Paul Oxley wrote:

>Ahem! I didn't want to throw this in the mix (we had a 9 month flamefest
>on the za-lro about it), but perhaps you should be aware that the engine
>in question is becoming known as the "TDie". Read some of the reports on
>http://landyonline.co.za/issues/tdi_longevity.htm before you even
>consider this engine.

Paul, I took a look at the site. Interesting. A few comments though, a some rhetorical questions.
The most common failure/replacement was the timming belt. You also need to do this on any engine with a timming belt, like the V8's. Of 
course due to the close tolerances of a diesel, there is more damage usually when it breaks, although newer petrol engines can suffer 
quite a bit too. In any case, I wouldn't run it with a timming belt, I'd convert at new to a set of Zeus timming gears. I think timming belts are 
the spawn of the devil.

The other common failure was turbos. In my experience (rebuilding turbos) and observations, most people don't know how to drive and 
care for a turbo equiped vehicle, cars/suv's in particular. You can not drive them like a non-turbo. How often did they check/change the 
oil?

Injectors were replaced a good bit, but most were at well over 150,000km. Not *too* bad. Also, we have no way to know filter maint. or fuel 
quality, a *huge* factor in injector and pump longevity. Did they have a water seperator, or just a filter?

Things like alternators, powersteering etc aren't really related to it being a diesel most likely.

Starters can be a big expense in a diesel. It's more important to have a good battery, proper sized cables to avoid voltage drop, and 
really clean solid connections. A starter turning slower than it should shortens it's life, and the above points contribute to low voltage at the 
starter which = slow turning. Cold weather doesn't help either :-)

Most of the engine failures were due to coolant loss, one even becuase the rad hose wasn't put on correctly (I don't count this one). But 
most diesels are qucikly toast if you run without coolant. Again, I'd like to know which failures are dues to a design fault vs. poor/incorrect 
maint. 

I'd like to see a similar site/study of V8's. Anyway, those are my first impressions and two cents worth.
Cheers

Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
        in places even more inaccessible

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:07:27 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I 
was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide.

I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone 
already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I 
tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply 
switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?".  I can read a 
wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually 
work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around 
and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then I've 
found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and 
bastardize it to -.

Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:22:28 -0600
From: Ivan Van Laningham <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool

Hi All--

"Faure, Marin" wrote:
>   But
> many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal
> tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") 

No, Marin, it is not.  The word for which you search is "castellated." 
As in reminiscent of castle battlements, where archers hide behind the
high parts and shoot through the low parts.

<what-are-these-old-farts-coming-to?>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
- ----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Symantec
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:26:06 -0600
From: Ivan Van Laningham <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool

Hi All--

"Faure, Marin" wrote:
> 
> The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut 

Oh, and that should be "bizarro"; "bizarre" and "bazaar" both have one
"z", and the angular alternate Superman universe to which you refer was
spelled, after "bizarre," "Bizarro."

<mr.-mtzylplyx>-ly y'rs,
Ivan;-)
- ----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Symantec
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:05:34 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

How are the coil leads hooked up? The truck should run wiht them in either
position, but the spark is not as strong (or so I remember hearing). Check
your coil, and it should tell you what's up, and how it is wired.

As far as I know, you can reverse the polarity without frying anything. But
then again, I'd ask someone who knows what they are talking about...

JL

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

> It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I
> was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide.
>
> I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone
> already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I
> tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply
> switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?".  I can read a
> wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually
> work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around
> and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then
I've
> found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and
> bastardize it to -.
>
> Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
>     http://keith.miata.net
> ------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:08:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote:

:How are the coil leads hooked up? The truck should run wiht them in either
:position, but the spark is not as strong (or so I remember hearing). Check
:your coil, and it should tell you what's up, and how it is wired.
:
:As far as I know, you can reverse the polarity without frying anything. But
:then again, I'd ask someone who knows what they are talking about...

the generator needs to be properly polarized.  I don't know how you do that
to the Lucas generator, but I' m  sure someone does.
:

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:19:48 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: special tool

Well, the "castellations"? if they can be called that, are horizontal,
not vertical like on the normal castellated nut. So no, there is no
hole for a pin as it would do no good.

Mark Sullivan wrote:
> 
> Yes castellated is the correct term ,they resemble an "old english castle
> tower" with the up  and down stonework where olde archers used to fire and
> hide. normally used when a pin is inserted through the up and down section
> to "lock the nut on. Boy I bet that sounds confusing however they do work
> but is there a hole in the main shaft to put the pin thru ?? As allready
> noted it is an odd shaped nut (normally larger than standard ) which allows
> amateur mechanics to tighten down a bit more without rounding the flats of
> the nut ???
> 
>                                         Mark Sullivan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Faure, Marin [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2001 10:26 AM
> To: 'Land Rover Mail Group'
> Subject: LRO: Re: special tool
> 
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700
> From: TeriAnn Wakeman <[email-masked]>
> Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool
> 
> >>whatsa big deal?  Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer
> 
> >junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel.  That
> >and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal.  Torque be damned, tighten the
> 
> >thing as tight as you can get it.
> 
> >Oh, OK.  This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover
> owners.  People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly.  I sure
> wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land
> Rovers are.  It's not the car's fault.
> 
> The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end
> of the mainshaft on some vehicles.  In a correspondence with someone
> off-list,
> I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type
> nut, and
> this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual.  But
> many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal
> tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?")  Anyway, this obviously
> explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard
> hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it.  I don't know
> if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after
> such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to
> resort
> to a normal nut on the day they made mine.  But on mine, the instructions
> simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against
> two sides of the hex nut.
> 
> My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a
> standard
> number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the
> stupid
> castleated thing an put on a normal nut?  Making a washer with tabs to bend
> up
> against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer
> for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut.  I don't know because
> one of the
> the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold
> up against a hex
> nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey
> realized
> they could be in there).
> 
> I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more
> money
> than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or
> you may not
> install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on.  But in
> the case
> of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the
> problem go
> away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special
> tool
> (or a bar and a rock).
> ___________________________
> C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle

- -- 
Jim Hall
1966 88" Elephant Chaser
http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo
"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling 
with Jim." Mitch Stockdale

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 05:31:17 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: RE: East Range

> That's good looking rope on that winch.
>
> Looks like you had a great trip.  Now, to get used to the NW, you need to
do
> it again while a steady stream of ice water pelts the side of your head
and
> trickles down to your seat and legs.
>

Oh don't worry, I am rebuilding the door tops.  And heater.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 05:42:40 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Thank you

> The best and closest answer came from George Simmons who lives 18 miles
from me
> and has 3 Land Rovers.

3?  Hmm, he must of done some spring cleaning.  Think he had 5-1/2 when I
was visiting last fall :-)
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:58:00 -0400
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

>the generator needs to be properly polarized.  I don't know how you do that
>to the Lucas generator, but I' m  sure someone does.

According to TeriAnn's writeup on switching polarity, it seems to involve 
simply sparking the F terminal with the appropriate polarity. Seems easy 
enough. Even I can do that without asking lots of questions.

Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly 
polarized generator - out of curiousity.

My coil seems to be hooked up with the ground attached to the CB pole, 
which indicates positive ground. I'm going to assume that's the case and 
carry on with converting it to (what I believe is) negative ground.

Keith
- ------------
Keith's page de home:
    http://keith.miata.net
- ------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:43:30 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Roll cages

> Nice pictures of your East Range Adventure.  Only problem is the pictures
> don't show how scary it was.  Amazing how hard it is to photograph
reality.

ain't that the truth

> I need two full roll cages for 88's like yours that will take the place of
> the hoops.

Easy

>
> For the 109, I would like a single roll bar that will go in the extra
holes
> at the front corners of the rear bed.  109's have the same hoop holes as
the
> 88 where the front top hoops go and another set slightly aft at the inside
> corners of the rear bed.  The official military roll bar goes in this
second
> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to
> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar.

So just a single hoop?  No legs?
When Dave gets back from his current work trip we are going to make a full 3
hoop cage for his 109.  The forward most hoop will go in the second puka as
you describe so that the stock softtop hoop and window suround can still be
used.  Also allows for a side to side bar, without interfering with the load
area and provides mounts for the shoulderbelts.

Tabs can be fitted to this bar to support a roof rack.  The soft top will
need to have a button hole cut and stiched in the same area.  The 109 middle
bar would be the same.  The tabs on the rear bar go straight back, so no
mods required for the tilt.

We are building James bumper and push bar on Saturday.  Will start bender
yours then also.  Because of the accident the tub on The Project is out of
square, so can't use my cage as the template.
For your 88's, i need the distance front to rear of the pukas on each side,
and then side to side measurment for front and rear pukas, and finally
corner to corner.
| |  then =  and finally X.  Take the measurements from the center of the
pukas.
Do you have soft tops on the 88's?
Do you have the full window surounds and need mounting tabs on the front
bar?
Do you want tabs for the roof rack?
I will be putting my tabs on this weekend and will let you know when the
photos are up on the web.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:55:58 -0400
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

Still at it? It's 1 am!

I thought I was pulling a late night, doing some CAD for school...

doing a semesters work in one night is tough.

Where'd I put that coffee cup?

Seriously, I don't think you can wreck much. Are you leaving the voltage
regulator on the truck, or are you removing it completely? That's probably
the only part you could possibly fry (unsure of this - Never actually had to
deal with a broken one). I think by polarizing the generator with your
battery, establishing that it does have - polarity, and going from there, is
your best bet.

J-L
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

>
> >the generator needs to be properly polarized.  I don't know how you do
that
> >to the Lucas generator, but I' m  sure someone does.
>
> According to TeriAnn's writeup on switching polarity, it seems to involve
> simply sparking the F terminal with the appropriate polarity. Seems easy
> enough. Even I can do that without asking lots of questions.
>
> Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly
> polarized generator - out of curiousity.
>
> My coil seems to be hooked up with the ground attached to the CB pole,
> which indicates positive ground. I'm going to assume that's the case and
> carry on with converting it to (what I believe is) negative ground.
>
> Keith
> ------------
> Keith's page de home:
>     http://keith.miata.net
> ------------
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:01:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Roll cages

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote:

:> corners of the rear bed.  The official military roll bar goes in this
:second
:> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to
:> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar.
:
:So just a single hoop?  No legs?

Yup.  It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll.  I guess
you could stick a gun on it, though...

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:38:19 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Roll cages

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       Speaking of low speed rolls that's about all mine would be good for as 
well. I wanted something to mount the seat belts to and RN wasn't selling 
their 'MOD protection bars' at the time due to litigious reasons . . 
thankfully.( too much $)  
       Anyway I found a 'bar' from at a local International Harvester parts 
dealer, for Forty Dollars.  The bar is used in a Harvester to hold the Bimini 
top if I understood the guy correctly. To my amazement the width of the bar 
was exactly the same as the galvanized capping on the Rover. I welded nuts 
into the bar for the seat belts, had it dipped and then mounted it far enough 
back as to not interfere with the truck cab in the winter.  
       Over all it works great for what i wanted (firm seat belt attachment) 
but it would hardly stand up to any severe test or roll over (I doubt the cab 
would far all that well either)
Scott Just
'68 109
Rochester, MI.

> On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote:
> 
> :> corners of the rear bed.  The official military roll bar goes in this
> :second
> :> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to
> :> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar.
> :
> :So just a single hoop?  No legs?
> 
> Yup.  It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll.  I guess
> you could stick a gun on it, though...
> 
> 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Speaking of low speed rolls that's about all mine would be good for as 
<BR>well. I wanted something to mount the seat belts to and RN wasn't selling 
<BR>their 'MOD protection bars' at the time due to litigious reasons . . 
<BR>thankfully.( too much $) &nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Anyway I found a 'bar' from at a local International Harvester parts 
<BR>dealer, for Forty Dollars. &nbsp;The bar is used in a Harvester to hold the Bimini 
<BR>top if I understood the guy correctly. To my amazement the width of the bar 
<BR>was exactly the same as the galvanized capping on the Rover. I welded nuts 
<BR>into the bar for the seat belts, had it dipped and then mounted it far enough 
<BR>back as to not interfere with the truck cab in the winter. &nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Over all it works great for what i wanted (firm seat belt attachment) 
<BR>but it would hardly stand up to any severe test or roll over (I doubt the cab 
<BR>would far all that well either)
<BR>Scott Just
<BR>'68 109
<BR>Rochester, MI.
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote:
<BR>
<BR>:&gt; corners of the rear bed. &nbsp;The official military roll bar goes in this
<BR>:second
<BR>:&gt; set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to
<BR>:&gt; reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar.
<BR>:
<BR>:So just a single hoop? &nbsp;No legs?
<BR>
<BR>Yup. &nbsp;It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll. &nbsp;I guess
<BR>you could stick a gun on it, though...
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:43:07 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

Look at the battery.  If the negative '-' terminal cable goes to the frame 
or to the engine, its already been converted to negative earth.  Won't hurt 
to make the changes outlined in TAW's web site or any other that describes 
how to change over.  From memory its only a one or two wires and 
repolarizing the generator to make the change.

Changing polarity is about the easiest thing that you can do to your Rover 
and takes about 20 minutes if you are really slow, like me.  If you want to 
find out how to do it and TAW's description is not clear enough for you, try 
RN's tech section.

>From: Keith Tanner <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:07:27 -0400
>
>It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I
>was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide.
>
>I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone
>already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I
>tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply
>switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?".  I can read a
>wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually
>work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around
>and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then I've
>found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and
>bastardize it to -.
>
>Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA
>------------
>Keith's page de home:
>    http://keith.miata.net
>------------
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:50:19 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Jate rings was(Re: LRO: Roll cages)

> :So just a single hoop?  No legs?
>
> Yup.  It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll.  I guess
> you could stick a gun on it, though...
>

1st-sorry, I meant to send this to Peter directly.

2nd-mighty small gun, .30 at the most, or a recoiless, or a ATM.
The turtletop Hummers have a pretty hefty rollbar combined with the kevlar
top and B-pillars supporting the weapon cupola and a .50 or a Mk19 still
rock the vehicle bigtime.  MATES here just had to replace a turtle top from
one of the Scout Platoon gunships because the cage and support cracked.  So
if anyone needs a hatchback for their Hummer let me know, this one is
sitting next to the scrap heap free for the taking.  Oh and I picked up a
dozen 6ton U shackles today and a couple of Hummer Jate rings.
The Jate rings are rated at 14500 lbs and have a 3" opening.  Bolt is the
same diameter as the leaf springs.  So is this a good place to put the Jate
rings?  My other option is to just bolt them on using the receiver pin
holes.  If I do that then the Rover will be truely sling loadable.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 02:37:04 EDT
From: [email-masked]
Subject: LRO: Re: OD nut tool

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David Wallace writes:

> There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted 
> a CAD drawing also I believe.
> 
It was me. The drawing was originally from Kelly Minnick and I changed it a 
bit to mate with a hex socket, have a slip fit on the shaft and tolerances to 
cope with the variations I measured in off the shelf castellated nuts. I 
didn't make them, rather I had a machinist make them and he still sells them 
at close to cost. I got to keep the prototype for my trouble. A mechanic I 
know has even used his with a compressed air tool and it is still holding up 
(though not necessarily recommended). 

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 Red Rufy
'66 SIIa 88 Barbaros
'95 Disco EFE

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>David Wallace writes:
<BR>
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted 
<BR>a CAD drawing also I believe.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>It was me. The drawing was originally from Kelly Minnick and I changed it a 
<BR>bit to mate with a hex socket, have a slip fit on the shaft and tolerances to 
<BR>cope with the variations I measured in off the shelf castellated nuts. I 
<BR>didn't make them, rather I had a machinist make them and he still sells them 
<BR>at close to cost. I got to keep the prototype for my trouble. A mechanic I 
<BR>know has even used his with a compressed air tool and it is still holding up 
<BR>(though not necessarily recommended). 
<BR>
<BR>Karen Sindir
<BR>'74 SIII 88 Red Rufy
<BR>'66 SIIa 88 Barbaros
<BR>'95 Disco EFE
<BR></FONT></HTML>

- --part1_31.139ca106.280fe190_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:43:36 +0100
From: "Steve Mace" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

I suppose looking at your pay cheque each month has some compensation as 
well :-) (charged £120 - 200USD - for 20 mins consultation last year).

On 18 Apr 2001, at 15:43, Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote:

> But, as a lawyer, I have something to say about it:
> I'm not only used to be the subject of 30% of all existing jokes, but I
> actually learned to enjoy it.

Steve

1972 SIII LtWt Green
1993 D90 Red
- -------------------------------------
Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: [email-masked]
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate)
Fax: 0845 458 4559
Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877
- -------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:32:22 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

Of course, the coil works just fine hooked up backwards.

- --
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

Errrr....output voltage is lower.....

It runs, yes, but runs better with the proper polarity....and yes I
measured it (didn't believe it either....).

                              ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:39:01 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler.

Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly
polarized generator - out of curiousity.

It won't charge. That's it.

Just flash the field leads with a lead from the battery hot terminal and it
will do fine....

                              ajr

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:06:12 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers

So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest?

------------------------------

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