Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #329

From: [email-masked] (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:02:44 -0400

LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 329

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:05:18 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps

Somebody was talking to me about hand cranking the 
Land Rover engine the other day, and that got me 
wondering if any of the popular engine swaps people 
have been doing on the Series retain the ability to hand
crank the engine.  Granted, it's not a big liability if they 
don't- modern batteries and alternators just 
about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore,
and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start.  
But the hand crank does come in handy on the 2.25 when 
adjusting valves, and back in the '70s I had to resort to hand 
cranking occasionally when my finances precluded the ability 
to buy a new battery until the next paycheck.  Can you put the 
Land Rover's dog clutch crank pulley on the engines you're using for 
conversions, or has anyone had a machine shop make up a dog-clutch 
crank pulley?  Of course it may not even be possible to hand-crank 
a V-8, 300 cu in. six, Iron Duke, etc., in which case creating the 
hardware to do it would be a waste of time.

Higher horsepower does not necessarily preclude the ability to 
hand-start an engine.  On rare occasions we have to resort to hand-
starting the nine-cylinder, 450-hp Pratt & Whitney radials on the 
Beavers I fly, but they are very low compression engines, and are 
actually quite easy to get going by hand.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:42:49 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters...

well now, there's me and Trevor Easton, and probably others, who have bits
of metal inside there that our mummies and daddies never made for us...

mind you, there are folk who don't think I'm human, how about you Trev ?

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters...

>
> her
> question was, if a person gets a mechanical heart, are they still human?
> How about a replacement heart from another person?  How about a baboon
> heart?  What makes a person a person?
>
>
> The question above all of that, Clinton, Is whether or not they were to
> begin with.....
>
> Parts is parts...
>
>           ajr
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:34:30 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question

My BRB (UK version of ARB) bullbar/bumper is half powder coated. The half
where rust didn't get in through a slight nick and peel it off that is.

I have a big job now to remove all the rest and rub the rust down.
 Then I'll redlead it and paint it.

No more powder coating for me :-(>
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: N Forbes <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question

> My Rocky Mountain mountain bike is powder coated and it is extremely
> durable. I think you'll only have problems if the prep work is not done.
>
> Niall Forbes
> 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
> Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
> The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm
>
> "See the happy moron,
> He doesn't give a damn.
> I wish I were a moron.
> My God! Perhaps I am!"
> --author unknown
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:26:19 -0400
From: "Martin Rothman" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question

Simon

Here is some info on powder coating:

To powder coat a part the part is:

- - sand blasted,
- - dipped in a series of degreasing and caustic type solutions,
- - given an electrostatic charge,
- - then dipped into, or sprayed with a plastic powder,
- - baked to melt the powder and bond it to the part.

The finished result is a sealed plastic surface over the part.  It is 
normally very thin and flexible.  However, if you break the plastic surface 
and allow moisture to start rusting the part, the plastic can lift and 
separate from the part.  (As with Alan Richer's Rangie and most bush bars 
that I have seen.)

I have had several brit motorcycle frames, swingarms and other bits done 
with excellent results. If you have anything done with machined mating 
surfaces (close tolerances), or other wearing surfaces, you will need to 
either mask the area prior to coating or remove the coating from those areas 
before assembling.

As with anything being painted, preparation is crucial.  If the part has any 
threaded holes, especially blind holes, be sure to screw a long bolt part 
way in.  This will prevent the powder from messing up your threads.  After 
coating, use a sharp knife to slice the plastic around the mating edge and 
remove the bolt.  Works great and keeps a tight bond with the powder.

Hope this info helps.

Regards,

Martin Rothman

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:42:58 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: outage

>there is some network work happening which may affect server availability
>for a couple hours.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

>
>shouldn't be the end of the world.
>  -B

Well, I'll take your word for it but I'm not convinced.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:49:32 -0000
From: "N Forbes" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Marin Faure

>Hey come on guys, at least he takes the time and trouble to rant and it 
>does
>at least create some discussion. Give the guy break and I'm sure he'll
>quieten down a little perhaps but not too much.
>
>Regards - John

I figure if they have that much trouble dealing with someone through email, 
they must have a really hard time putting up with people they don't like in 
person.

Oh well. I like Marin's rants for the most part, especially recently as he's 
become quite the wise ass. Good work Marin ;-) Now all we need is for Bobeck 
and Russ to hang around more often.

Niall Forbes
66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm

"See the happy moron,
He doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron.
My God! Perhaps I am!"
- --author unknown

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:39:53 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Why do we own Land Rovers?

Very quiet this morning?
I have been thinking about why I like Land Rovers. They are not very fast
and not very quiet and a good one is worth more than my Range Rover! I do
not really know specifically, but I think it might be because of the
following.   For me, I think that it is the association with the past. They
all smell the same as when I was young and that reminds me of days of fun
and shooting in Scotland. They are parked all over Britain. They are in the
Market towns of the south, they are in London outside someone's flat. You'll
find then in every farmyard, You'll see them towing horse boxes to hunt
meets and pony club events. The police used to use them, the Army still
does. They are so common in Britain, that they are part of the fabric of the
rural scene. They are quaint and unique and are actually very good off-road.
I have used an old Series IIa diesel as an everyday driver in England and I
trained people to drive Army Lightweights at corporate events at Gaydon
where the Factory tests the Landrovers. There is something very familiar
about them. Everything is always the same.  For me, they are an island of
Britishness with all their quirks in a sea of mass produced mediocrity.
Everyone who comes for a ride in whichever land Rover I have always says
that it is very interesting and asks questions about it.  Even if they have
never seen one before in real life, they have seen one on TV and have heard
of them. Go anywhere in the world and there they are, still battling on
after all these years.  I learned to drive in an Old Series Landrover.  I
steered it from my Dad's knee aged 6 and "soloed" it a few years later. My
First employer on farm in Scotland at aged 17 had a series I.  All through
my life there has been a Landrover there, different year, different model,
different color, different use, but always familiar. Now here in the USA I
still have them and they are the same. It must be the memories that makes me
like them. I look at a Freelander or a Defender and see nothing.  They are
good machines, but the character has gone. I have no association with them.
Range Rovers reach far enough back to still be associated with Home and my
misspent youth. The first one was built when I was 6 years old. I remember
the first time I saw a four door model. The "new four door Range Rover"!! It
was in a school friend of my sister's, father's garage with an Austin
Healey, just outside Oxford. I opened the rear door.  I was young and easily
impressed!
That's it really, in  nutshell I use them as time machines to get back to
where things were simpler.
Mark Pilkington
1967 SWB Series IIA V8.
1990 "four door" Range Rover.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:25:27 -0700
From: "Rich Williams II" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: list activity

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

just seeing if the list is down

- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>just seeing if the list is down</BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:19:43 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: 

Bill Leacock writes:>>>> I have been trying to lern Americun for the past
six years and have
> finally mastered aluminum ( I process enough in a year  to circulate the
> globe 4 times - is that Ameriken enuf?)<<

coming from Yorkshire, Bill, you had enough trouble with English right?

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:32:17 +0100
From: "Frank Elson" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: relay knock found?

I mentioned the sleeve. Steve Parker LRs here in the UK fitted one to my
son's 1972 Ser3 when they replaced the relay, said the hole 'ovals' after a
while.

Steve is very helpful try him on :
[email-masked]
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: joe mulqueen <[email-masked]>
To: LRO <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:32 AM
Subject: LRO: relay knock found?

> Well,
> I loosened my new relay's well torqued top cross
> mounting bolts and I think I've confirmed the knocking
> sound (that was heard only under higher driving
> forces) is coming from the relay shifting in the frame
> at the bottom end.  I never disturbed the lower
> retainer ring when I installed the new relay.  It's
> always been tight but now apparently not securing the
> relay.  Does anyone know how it's supposed to work? I
> had simply pushed in the new relay until the top cross
> bolts had aligned with the frame tabs and thought I
> was done.  Something needs to "shimmed" in this lower
> region of the frame hole to prevent the new relay from
> shifting...someone had mentioned someone who had
> designed a "sleeve"?
> Thanks for any experiences,
> Joe Mulqueen
> '67 SIIA 109 SW
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:05:26 -0400
From: "David G. Russell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Mini quest-no Rover content

Please reply off-list.

Does anyone have a link to a Mini page that just has a picture of a Mini
on it?

I don't want Flash
I don't want frames
I don't want under construction
I don't want a bad link

I just want a picture of a Mini and maybe a person standing next to it
for reference.

http://www.minifreak.freeserve.co.uk/famous.htm

is as close as I've come but there is no plain, simple, stock Mini on
the page

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:40:58 -0400
From: "David G. Russell" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Larry's birthday

On 10/4/01 at 2:04, Larry Smith penned: 

> I have a birthday coming up and have an unfulfilled fantasy.  I want a
> ride in a DC-3/C-47.  Don't care whether I go as passenger or cargo
> (Hey I retired after 22 years in the Army - I'm used to going as
> cargo!)  I've ridden in a lot of military aircraft, but never one of
> these.

What about checking at the Frederick, MD air show in the summer?

Also, I saw one do touch and go's last summer at Pease up here in
Portsmouth, NH. I think that show is going to be on again this year so
the plane might be here as well.

- -David

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:14 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Safari Landrovers on Safari

Paul,
    Do you know a guy in Nairobi called Alan Binks? Flies a 185, and drives a
Safari converted 110?  I think the company is called Downey Safari's. You
probably do!
Small world out there.
Mark

Paul Oxley wrote:

> Hope Peter wrote:
>
> > Yes I am kidding, sheesh you PETA folks should change yer name to PITA.
>
> Heh, heh, heh!
>
> Mainstreet Nairobi, yesterday, three PETA 'world citizens' (from guess
> which state, in guess which country) lock themselves inside a chicken
> coop to protest against Kenyans consuming meat/chickens (BTW, estimates
> are that 4.4 million Kenyans are at risk of starving at the moment). A
> bystander observing this shakes his head and says "Chickens are not an
> endangered species. I don't see the sense of it. Tonight I'm leaving
> here and I'm going for a chicken."
>
> Go figger...
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Oxley
> AfricanAdrenalin.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:18:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Mini quest-no Rover content

:On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, David G. Russell wrote:

:Please reply off-list.
:
:Does anyone have a link to a Mini page that just has a picture of a Mini
:on it?

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2706/img/gthouse.jpg
:
- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:27:16 -0400
From: "Lee Jones" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: LRO: Shipfitters...

Hi Frank!

I kinda look at my stent as a bailing wire fix and therefore is (in the Land
Rover sense) still a factory item - I believe that bailing wire, chewing
gum, hitting with a 4 pound sledge, and duct tape are all considered proper
fixes for a Land Rover and therefore for me as well!

Lee

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Frank Elson
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:43 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters...

well now, there's me and Trevor Easton, and probably others, who have bits
of metal inside there that our mummies and daddies never made for us...

mind you, there are folk who don't think I'm human, how about you Trev ?

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters...

>
> her
> question was, if a person gets a mechanical heart, are they still human?
> How about a replacement heart from another person?  How about a baboon
> heart?  What makes a person a person?
>
>
> The question above all of that, Clinton, Is whether or not they were to
> begin with.....
>
> Parts is parts...
>
>           ajr
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:26:31 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Hand cranking and engine swaps

I loved having the hand crank on my S-III.  Was a convience when setting
points, or valves.  Never did use it to start, other then for fun for
friends.
The IIa has the crank driven Koenig, which I still have not figured out how
to convert so I can hand crank.  I am thinking of making the input shaft
longer, drill and seal the front side of the housing.  Then a shortened
handle there.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:32:55 -0400
From: Easton Trevor A <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant

An economical (aka True LRO) substitute for RedLine Water Wetter is Jetdry
dishwasher additive. 

> I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I
> also
> started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and  don't
> hesitate
> recommending this product to anyone.
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:31:53 -1000
From: "Hope Peter" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Mini quest-no Rover content

Dave, if you can't find what you need let me know and I can send you a
digipic.  One of the Aloha Rover Owners has a mini and I can snap one for
you.  Maybe park it between our Rovers for an even beter comparrason.  I
swear the thing looks like it will fit in the backend of the GMC.
Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:43:30 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Engine rebuild time

Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:54:09 -0600
From: "Jim Hall" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time

>So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires
through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt
valve?

It might also be worth checking the points.  I had a similar symptom on 
a trip to the Yukon and Northwest Territories in 1977.  The vehicle started 
missing, and it progressively got worse until it wouldn't run at speed at all.  
Backfiring, missing, terrible.  But it would start and idle just fine.  Checked the fuel 
feed and it was okay.  Turned out the problem was the points had worn 
through their hard coating, and then they eroded very rapidly.  Put in a new 
set of points, and the thing ran perfectly.  This may not be your problem at 
all, but it might be worth checking out.  Usually an engine problem that materializes 
right away is pretty minor, in that it's just an adjustment or failed component like 
points, fuel pump, etc.  A more major problem generally takes time to become 
apparent.  Not a hard and fast rule, of course, but it's been my experience that's what
happens.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:42:54 -0700
From: Mark Pilkington <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Hand cranking and engine swaps

With the plugs out of a non-runner, and the gears in low first, you can crank a
Land Rover right up onto the trailer with a minimum of effort with the cranking
handle.
Mark Pilkington

Hope Peter wrote:

> I loved having the hand crank on my S-III.  Was a convience when setting
> points, or valves.  Never did use it to start, other then for fun for
> friends.
> The IIa has the crank driven Koenig, which I still have not figured out how
> to convert so I can hand crank.  I am thinking of making the input shaft
> longer, drill and seal the front side of the housing.  Then a shortened
> handle there.
> Pete

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:45:29 -0600
From: "Coates, Clinton" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: MB Adapters

Hi TeriAnn,

I emailed this guy ([email-masked]) but thought that his
prices were a bit dear.  850 DM for the ring, clutch plate and spigot
bearing.  The spigot is a custom one, the clutch plate is custom and
requires a 300D flywheel etc.  I have also heard some negative feedback on
the kit, but cannot substantiate it.  I will probably come out about the
same as this kit in the end, cost wise.  But, doing it myself (with a good
machinists help) I know it will be the way I want it. Plus, I will be using
entirely stock components for the wear items.  It is *much* easier to find
an 8.5" 240D clutch in north america than a clutch for a standard 300D,
which was never imported over here...

The guy also has kits to put 300Ds into various species of discos and
rangies, I believe.

Clinton

2.25 Petrol Apostate

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:35:37 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Sighting--Ft. Collins CO

Hey everyone,
I've seen my first two series LRs in town since moving to Ft. Collins in
the past few days and neither time have I been in Mrs. Merdle!

Yesterday I saw a white SII or IIA 109 Reg, hard top, RHD, with a LR
sticker on the door right here in Ft. Collins CO and last week I saw a
pale green SII or IIA 88", also hard top (with liftgate, not SW rear
door).

Anyone know either of these trucks?

bill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:11:50 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: 240D to LR adapter

So, essentially, you're doing a Scotty's trick - replacing the arse end of
the motor with a flywheel cover that mimics the LR...

Nice design - that's got to be an interesting bit of CNC work.

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:43:21 -0600
From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps

modern batteries and alternators just 
about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore,
and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start.  

Yeah, but if the STARTER goes out on you, like mine did a month ago,
you're stuck doing the old push-start, which is dangerous in a IIA since
the dashboard isn't exactly soft when you bash your knee on it while
jumping into the rolling truck (attempts 2 and 3), nor is the roof edge
soft when you bash your head into it while jumping in (attempt 1).  She
started on attempt three and I bought a new starter (well, reman'd w/ a
lifetime guarantee) the next day for a big old $35.  So, while you might
not have the ability to crank start it, the odds of you having to do so
for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are
greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close.

bill

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:01:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Easton Trevor A wrote:

:An economical (aka True LRO) substitute for RedLine Water Wetter is Jetdry
:dishwasher additive. 
:
:
:> I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I
:> also
:> started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and  don't
:> hesitate
:> recommending this product to anyone.

Red Line's Water Wetter is probably some surfactant and possibly some
alcohol, and some anti-corrosives.  If you've got access to a chemical
stockroom, a few grams of reagent grade surfactant would do the trick --
dirt cheap too.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:04:13 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:06:24 -0400
From: "Perrone Ford" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant

>I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I also
started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and  don't hesitate
recommending this product to anyone.
http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/coolant.htm

Reading the coolant commentary on the above URL that Perrone posted, 
I came across this paragraph:

"There are two types of base coolant stock available right now:  Ethylene
glycol (EG) and propylene glycol (PG).  Currently, no engine manufacturers
selling product in the US recommend PG (sold by Arco as Sierra brand
coolant), most caution against it (check your owner's guide).  PG has a
higher boiling point than EG (straight), but has a lower heat-transfer
coefficient.  EG coolants also come in several flavors, depending on the
additive package (more below). BTW, PG isn't truly non-toxic."

The author goes on to describe some of the other coolants on the 
market.  I have no idea of the author's qualifications on the subject, 
but the article is worth reading if you're interested in the merits 
and demerits of the various coolant types.  Thanks, Perrone, for 
posting these URLs.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:03:52 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Series Fuel tanks

PETA 'world citizens' (from guess
which state, in guess which country)

Don't blame US for California.....we're on the other end of the landmass
for a very good reason!

                    aj"Pragmatic New Englander"r

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:11:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: David Scheidt <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, William J. Rice wrote:

:for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are
:greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close.
:

Truly written like a man who's never had to walk five miles to buy a part.

- -- 
[email-masked]
Bipedalism is only a fad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:02:38 -0400
From: "RON WARD" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Painting a IIa

Hey,

I have decided to hand paint my 88" and want a color close to pastel green.  Now, about a week ago I was browsing around on the internet and recall seeing a picture of a young lady's 88" (on OVLR or ROAV site?) that had been painted the same color.  The caption mentioned a Martha Stewart "garden collections," or something similar, paint color.  Anyone recommend a variety or close color match in a rustoleum or other exterior paint that can be found at the Home Depot or someplace?

Thanks

Ron Ward

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:29:15 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: 240D to LR adapter

So, essentially, you're doing a Scotty's trick - replacing the arse end of
the motor with a flywheel cover that mimics the LR...

Nice design - that's got to be an interesting bit of CNC work.

                         ajr

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:26:50 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps

Had to meet someone over at the farm early Saturday morning but when I went 
out to the 109, the starter was dead.  Sh*t, I had to find the crank 'cuz 
I'd taken all that stuff out of the truck during the rebuild.  Luckily, 
found it almost immediately.  Pulled the choke, pumped the throttle a couple 
of times, and it started on the 2nd crank despite having sat through a 
bitterly cold 68 degree night.  Glory be, what a wonder the much maligned 2 
1/4 is.

Aloha
Peter

>From: "William J. Rice" <[email-masked]>
>Reply-To: [email-masked]
>To: [email-masked]
>Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:43:21 -0600
>
>modern batteries and alternators just
>about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore,
>and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start.
>
>Yeah, but if the STARTER goes out on you, like mine did a month ago,
>you're stuck doing the old push-start, which is dangerous in a IIA since
>the dashboard isn't exactly soft when you bash your knee on it while
>jumping into the rolling truck (attempts 2 and 3), nor is the roof edge
>soft when you bash your head into it while jumping in (attempt 1).  She
>started on attempt three and I bought a new starter (well, reman'd w/ a
>lifetime guarantee) the next day for a big old $35.  So, while you might
>not have the ability to crank start it, the odds of you having to do so
>for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are
>greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close.
>
>bill

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:04 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant

Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:57:58 -0700
From: "Lonn & Rhonda" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant

>Maybe my RR will
like SAAB anti-freeze?  Seems that any coolant designed for aluminum
blocked engines should work, but my SAAB tech is insistent on using
only genuine SAAB anti-freeze.  Wonder why?

Based on my conversations with the engine shop I deal with, it would 
seem you are best off sticking with whatever the vehicle manufacturer 
recommends.  In the Jaguar URL that Perrone Ford posted 
there are some comments in the article about why it's not 
a good idea to switch coolant types in an engine that's been 
run on one type for awhile.

Obviously all the coolants sold in containers labeled 
for a particular vehicle or engine manufacturer are not made by those 
manufacturers.  I suspect that, like batteries and VCRs, there are only 
a few actual coolant manufacturers in the world.  So it may well 
be that the coolant sold under the Saab name is fine for a Range 
Rover.  But I think you should make real sure it is before you try it.

According to the person I talked to at Solihull, the Rover V-8 is 
pretty particular about having the right kind of coolant in it, in 
the right condition.  Old coolant is apparently pretty detrimental.  
As another poster said, the anti-corrosion properties start to 
fail as coolant gets older.  Maybe not a big deal in an iron engine 
but it seems to be a very big deal in an aluminum one.  Now that 
I've started siphoning the old coolant out of our Range Rover instead 
of using the extremely messy, factory-recommended method of 
removing the lower radiator hose, I've become much more 
willing to change the coolant once a year, which from everything 
I've been told is an important contributor to maximizing the engine's 
life.

Our '91 Range Rover came from the factory, or at least from the US distributor,
with Prestone in it, and that's what we've run ever since.  We did have to 
install a new radiator 
a year or so ago, not because the original was leaking but because 
it wasn't doing as efficient a job of cooling as it had.  Upon removal, 
we found that about a third of the front surface was plugged with dirt, bugs, 
grass, etc.  This had been hidden behind the air conditioning and 
transmission fluid heat exchanger assemblies, and so wasn't apparent 
until we actually removed the radiator.  So that was certainly responsible for some 
of the radiator's lost efficiency.  However, I had been told by several Range Rover 
mechanics that eight or nine years is about average for a Range Rover 
radiator to go before starting to lose its effectiveness.  In any event, 
it's worth spraying water forward through the radiator periodically to 
clear the crud that gets trapped in front if you do a lot of driving in 
dusty, buggy, etc. conditions.

>And what's the deal with the eco-anti-freeze that won't destroy Fido's
liver?  Anybody have any experience with it?

>From what I've heard, it's certainly better for the environment, but it's still 
a chemical, and as such still has some toxic qualities.  I would take the 
same precautions when draining a cooling system and disposing of the 
old coolant as you would if you were using Prestone.  I suspect that an 
animal lapping at a puddle of Sierra won't suffer the same 
consequences as they would at a puddle of Prestone, but that's not to 
say nothing will happen to them at all.  Nor do I know what a Sierra-type 
coolant will do in the ground water or in a pond, but I suspect it's not 
good.  Probably just not as bad as a Prestone-type coolant.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:51:30 -1000
From: "Peter Ogilvie" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant

Ethylene and propylene glycol are both toxic.  The problem with ethylene 
glycol is it tastes sweet so is an attractant for little critters.  They 
think its sugar water and lap it up, much to the discomfort of their 
innards.  Propylene glycol is not tasty so even though its toxic it doesn't 
encourage the critters to lap it up.

Aloha
Peter

>From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
> >I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I 
>also
>started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and  don't 
>hesitate
>recommending this product to anyone.
>http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/coolant.htm
>
>Reading the coolant commentary on the above URL that Perrone posted,
>I came across this paragraph:
>
>"There are two types of base coolant stock available right now:  Ethylene
>glycol (EG) and propylene glycol (PG).  Currently, no engine manufacturers
>selling product in the US recommend PG (sold by Arco as Sierra brand
>coolant), most caution against it (check your owner's guide).  PG has a
>higher boiling point than EG (straight), but has a lower heat-transfer
>coefficient.  EG coolants also come in several flavors, depending on the
>additive package (more below). BTW, PG isn't truly non-toxic."
>
>The author goes on to describe some of the other coolants on the
>market.  I have no idea of the author's qualifications on the subject,
>but the article is worth reading if you're interested in the merits
>and demerits of the various coolant types.  Thanks, Perrone, for
>posting these URLs.
>___________________________
>C. Marin Faure
>   (original owner)
>   1973 Land Rover Series III-88
>   1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
>   Seattle
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:37 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant

SAAB's antifreeze in no different than anything else.  Its either
Propylene
Glycol (standard stuff) Dexcool, or the enviro stuff.  Have a look at the
label and figure out what's in it.

Not quite true.  Silicates Borates and Phosphates are common additives. 
They all settle out and can block cooling passages.  That is one reason
for the for the coolant change.  Any coolant containing also has a shelf
like.  When was the last time you saw a "sell by" date on a jug of
antifreeze?  How long was that cheep antifreeze on the shelf?  How long
before it settles or gels?  Silicates also bond to the ceramic seal and
increase ware a few hundred percent. 
As for protecting aluminum and not protecting brass,please point me to
your references

Propylene Glycol is a food additive.  The standard stuff is Ethylene
Glycol.

For a quick check of corrosion resistance of your antifreeze try sticking
the probes of a high impedance volt meter, one in the coolant not
touching anything else and one on the engine block, you might be
surprised at the potential.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:02:19 -0700
From: "Faure, Marin" <[email-masked]>
Subject: LRO: RE: DC 3's

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:44:12 -0400
From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: LRO: RE: DC 3's

>>The set on the DC-3 in New England

>OK, I missed this - what DC3 on floats WHERE in New England?

At one time the DC-3 in question was based in Maine, but I couldn't 
say for sure that's where it is now.  It was created several years 
ago by mating the only remaining set 
of C-47 amphibious floats made by EDO during WWII to a 
civilian DC-3, which is for all practical purposes identical to 
a C-47.  The idea was to create a unique airplane that could be 
taken to airshows around the country, thus paying the cost 
of the initial project and operating expenses.  From talking 
to folks I know in the seaplane business, this concept hasn't 
really panned out very well.  The last I heard, the airplane was for 
sale, although finding someone with the money to buy and operate 
such a beast won't be easy.  At least the plane can be operated 
from airports and isn't confined to water operations only, which 
would really limit its earnings potential on the airshow circuit.  I've 
talked to pilots who flew them during testing at EDO during the war, 
and they say the plane handled very well, both on the water and in 
the air.  The program was cancelled after two C-47s had been fitted 
with the floats, not because the concept didn't work but because the 
planes proved unnecessary in the Pacific theatre, where the Navy 
Seabees could construct an operational runway with days of an 
amphibious landing on an island.
___________________________
C. Marin Faure
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE
  Seattle

------------------------------

End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #329
**********************************************