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Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:44:28 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sick 88 Range Rover

On Mon, 29 May 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote:

> Yup.. sounds like a blown head gasket.. At least the anti-freeze turning
> white sound like oil in the coolant. Are you getting any coolant into the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> white sound like oil in the coolant. Are you getting any coolant into the
> oil sump too??

Good point, I agreed with the diagnosis, but forgot about the other 
direction.  Oil in the coolant prevents corrosion ;-), but water in the 
oil is -bad- news.  Check the sump right away.

Also look for signs of exhaust gasses in the oil-system (lots of gunk 
leaking out of PCV valves, breather hoses, filler cap) and look for 
pressure in the cooling system almost _immediately_ after startup (before 
it's even warm).

Charlie

------------------------------

From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: snakes
Date: Mon, 29 May 95 11:17:07 EDT

OK, folks, so I made my way out to the Red Rover yesterday.  This is the 
one that's up on blocks, ready for his resto, with a new frame in the 
waiting.  I had cleaned it all out a month or so ago-removed decade-plus 
of mammalian inhabitants, got it level (more or less) and up off the 
inverted springs.  Up until yesterday, I had resisted for ten years the
temptation to rape bits off the thing, but Bill Maloney recently 
convinced me to try the rear diff in Nigel (remember the saga of the 
leaking brand new diffs?).  I can rationalize the scarfing only as I 
assure myself that the restoration process has officially begun, and 
this diff swap is only a temporary thing.....until I manage to get and 
install new bearings all around for the old one.  Hold me to it 
(please).

I arrive at the Red Rover and much to my surprise the prop shaft bolts 
come right out.  I pop a cold one in celebration.....this is gonna be 
easy.  As I enjoy the fermented fruits I stand back, eye the beast, and 
reflect as all good Rover owners do on the dreams that were and those 
that will be.  Moving closer, my eye sweeps across the fine lines of the
metallic dash, those gorgeous guages, the wiper motors, but then hones 
in and locks upon a frightful sight......there, upon the passenger side 
floor and draped across the top of the heater lies a nearly six foot 
long freshly shedded snake skin, still wet.  I can hold the thing 
from one outstretched hand to the other and it is completely intact.
Fortunately, it isn't a copperhead, nor a rattlesnake-it's only a 
blacksnake, I sez to myself I sez, but somehow I am only marginally 
calmed by this realization.  It's big mother blacksnake......now I know 
where all the rodents went.

The snakeskin is retrieved and placed across the top of Nigel's 
windshield.  It fits easily, corner to corner with more to spare.

A few hefty slugs off the beer later I contemplate slithering back below 
the beast and do so, cautiously, to finish the job.  Fortunately, the 
diff comes out like it was put in yesterday.

So, my question for the list is: If you were a six foot blacksnake, 
where would you hide in an 88?  Frame rails?  Air cleaner?  Bell 
housing?  Exhaust system?  Gas tank?

Yikes,
rd/nige

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 95 08:43:11 PDT
From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot)
Subject: Re: Offroading in New Hampshire

All, 

We are having another offroading trip in South Western NH. 

Ray Dixon's Rocky road tour 

Sat Aug 12th 

Leave Keene approx 9am

Bring your own picnic. 

E-mail me if your interested. 

Mark 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:45:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: snakes

On Mon, 29 May 1995, Russell G. Dushin wrote:

> So, my question for the list is: If you were a six foot blacksnake, 
> where would you hide in an 88?  Frame rails?  Air cleaner?  Bell 
> housing?  Exhaust system?  Gas tank?

	Where ever you expect me the least.  Preferably slither into that
	open, half empty case of beer sitting on the grass nearby to escape
	the summer heat and sun, catch some nice coolness while you sweat
	over the Red Rover... :-)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 17:04:59 +0059 (BST)
From: Charlie Wright <cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Prop-shaft lengths?

I just finished my conversion to put the SeriesIII 3.54 Salisbury rear 
axle (off a Stage I) in my IIa 109.  Now I know the diff nose is longer 
on a Salisbury, so I got a SeriesIII propshaft too.

Low and behold, the shaft is TOO SHORT?  The IIa shaft is clearly too 
long (3"), and the III shaft _does_ work, but it's about 1" too short. 
Enough spline engages to be safe, but not enough to let me tighten the 
sealing-ring.

I checked the suspension geometry, and it looks fine. At first I thought 
(oh, it's up on blocks, no wonder), but then we dropped it and the 
problem went from 1/2" short to 1" short.  Bizarre.

Is the front half of the shaft different on a Series III as well? That is 
the only place I can see taking up the slack (we didn't change the front 
piece).

I don't think I have a special 110" chassis on my '66 109?

Help, I'm baffled.

Charlie

C. R. Wright                                    Dept. of Genetics
+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone                    Univ. of Cambridge
+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax                      Downing Street, Cambs.
cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk                        CB2 3EH, England

------------------------------

Date: 29 May 95 13:17:00 EDT
From: "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unleaded Gas

Hi folks,

Following the thread on unleaded gas.. thought I'd throw in my observations.  I
agree with Michael Loiodice.  I've been running my Series IIA 2.25 liter on
unleaded for many years with no noticeable effect.  However, in addition to the
green concerns, I guess the issue for us old series owners is the eventual
effect on the valve train components, especially the valve seats.  You may go
many years without much of a problem, but a couple of the mechanics who I do
respect and seem to really know their stuff all agree that the seats will wear
faster on the unleaded unless you have the hardened stellite (sp?) modifications
to your head.  So what are the options?  One of my mechanic friends suggests it
isn't worth worryng about.  Drive it until the seats wear, they will probably
require more and more adjustment (due to the receding seats), eventually you
burn a valve and you need to get a valve job..THEN get the head rebuilt with the
new harded seats, etc.  The point is that one option is to just wait until you
need to take the head off anyway (due to unleaded gas or whatever) before going
to the expense of re-working it with the hardened components.   

Another alternative is to take the preventive action and spend a small fortune
in parts and labor  to re-work your head with the new hardened parts.

A third option (that I hadn't seen mentioned yet) might be to delay the problem
by the use of additives for unleaded fuel to slow down the wear process.   There
are several variations in the stores.  One Land Rover mechanic I know
recommended Stewart Warner's "CD-2".  I have no idea if this stuff really works,
but since I'd like to delay as long as possible removing the head, I figured it
wouldn't hurt.  And it is fairly cheap.  I found it in K-Mart  for about $7.00
for  a 1 quart container.   Each quart is enough to treat 320 gallons of gas
which works out to be about .25 worth of CD-2 for each 12 gallons of gas (or one
LR tank full).   The information on the CD-2 container states that "it forms a
protective coating on exhaust valves and seats, diminshes the metal to metal
contact, etc..."  Once again, I want to emphasize I don't really know how
effective these unleaded gas additives are and I'm not affiliated in any way
with the marketing of this stuff.  Maybe some other folks out there have some
experience with these additives.  For what its worth...

Cheers!

Tony Bonanno
Santa Fe, NM 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:40:13 -0700
From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool)
Subject: Re: Hard Top, Defender 90 help

Lori,

Welcome to the fold!

I'm answering because, when I've seen this question posted before, I've seen
all sorts of silly answers suggesting removing the roll cage.  I can't stand
it so I'm going to jump in.

>I'm a recent Land Rover owner (3 weeks and it's GREAT!) and I'm looking
>for someone who sells hardtops...

You could get a used D90 aluminum hardtop from England, probably most easily
from Famous Four which seems to be a fairly big supplier of used components
for export.  You would have to have the top modified, which could probably
be done in England before it's shipped over.  I'm pretty sure the cage is
made by Safety Devices which would surely supply the necessary
specifications to Famous Four or whomever for making the appropriate
modifications.

What you would have to do is modify the side panels of the roof to allow the
roll cage brace to pass through.  This should be doable by cutting out a
small section so that the width and reach from the waist of the body to the
brace would just about fit, allowing the side panel to be sort of "tipped
in" when you want to put your roof on, then a small panel to fit from the
top of the side panel down to the brace, which would overlap the cut-out,
and bolt in place with several small bolts.  The brace opening could
presumably be sealed by the same grommet that seals the softtop where the
brace passes through.  Once you have the side panels in place, you can
install the top section of the roof.  You'll also have to have either an
upper tailgate, such as the one used on the fiberglass top or replace your
existing side-opening tailgate with a back door from a 110.

Have fun,

Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, CA
<gpool@pacific.pacific.net>
(707)485-7220 (home)   (707)463-4265 (work)
'73 Land-Rover 88, more LRs, Austin Champ, BMW 3.0si, Peugeot 505 Turbo...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 12:19:42 -0700
From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell)
Subject: Re: Heaters

>The next idea was to use ex German WD sleeping bags, which have built in
>arms and a hood, and also a zip at the foot so you can poke your boots
>out. This system worked very well, although I got some funny looks when
>filling up at night in motorway service stations.

Oddly enough, when I first had my rover I used one of these same commando
bags. It got so cold, I eventually drove with my feet *inside* the bag... I
also remember the odd glances at refueling stations (although people were
surprisingly polite ;)

jory bell

------------------------------

From: Sekerere@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 16:24:17 -0400
Subject: Vacation Time

Well folks it is off to Zimbabwe and South africa in a couple of days. I am
sadly going to unsubscribe from the list until we get back. I am temporarily
cancelling my account with AOL to save a few dollars. Good Land Rovering
everyone. Hope to hit some used parts places when I am in SA to try to piece
together a few things for my "Anti-Christ" Series IIA. See you in July.

Cheers

Chris Whitehead
1966 Series IIA 88" "Anti-Christ"

------------------------------

From: Kelly Minnick <minnick@joker.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Delco
Date: Mon, 29 May 95 15:39:23 PDT

RE: Delco Alternators
Surely there is someone out there who has converted their Lucas LR alt.
to the Delco??  I have the double shive (sp?) pulley and have been grinding
on the original mount, but can't get enough travel to adjust the alternator
with a belt on it.  Do I have to grind the motor mount to getthis to work?
Please help me!  Thanks.
Kelly Minnick  '73 88" Safari & '91 RR
Ridgecrest, CA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 18:45:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: lead is dead.....

The use of a upper end lubricator is not a cure for un leaded fuel...I'm 
really not sure that it is a cure for anything.....If you have a proper 
test to prove that it helps with valve reccesion (like a twin marine set 
up one with and one w/o) fine, short of that I can only say that if you 
*feel* it works for you...that's great...
Now, Most upper end lubricators inject oil into the gas/air mix..spiffy! 
but oil has a octane rating of about 45...so if you use enough oil to 
actually lubticate anything you will noticably lower the ocatne rating of 
the fuel...not a problem on the LPG set up as it is well over 100 to 
start with I think...but on 87 octane unleaded...oops!
The problem is on the face and seat of the exhaust valve...so puting oil 
into the cylinder with that valve closed and then burning (we suppose) 
the oil before opening it again would lead one to suspect that it helps 
not a wit...the exhaust valve face actually welds itself to the seat in a 
very small way...several times a *second*...the cumulative effect is that 
the bits of metal are lost and the seat "sinks"..the lead used to coat 
the seats (and everything else, BTW) and this helped prevent the steel to 
steel contact....the hardened seats and valves are just too tough to weld...
Unleaded engines are *CLEAN* inside at teardowm...that alone has got to 
be a plus
Like the frog said, "It ain't easy bein' green"
steve.....

  "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..."

"NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon          Steven M. Denis
"        "-1957 107 Station Wagon          PO Box 296
"        "-1964 109 Pickup                 Fulton, New York USA
"        "_1967 109 NADA SW                13069

------------------------------

From: Craig Murray <craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au>
Subject: Re: Prop-shaft lengths?
Date: Tue, 30 May 95 9:03:29 EST

> I just finished my conversion to put the SeriesIII 3.54 Salisbury rear 
> axle (off a Stage I) in my IIa 109.  Now I know the diff nose is longer 
> on a Salisbury, so I got a SeriesIII propshaft too.

> Low and behold, the shaft is TOO SHORT?  The IIa shaft is clearly too 
> long (3"), and the III shaft _does_ work, but it's about 1" too short. 
> Enough spline engages to be safe, but not enough to let me tighten the 
> sealing-ring.

> I don't think I have a special 110" chassis on my '66 109?
> long (3"), and the III shaft _does_ work, but it's about 1" too short. 

Charlie,
        The Stage 1 has a longer transmission from memory, which could be 
the reason, also is the Series III propshaft off a six cylinder or four 
cylinder, as the propshafts are different lengths.

--
==============================================================================
Craig Murray                                    |       1955 Series 1 86"
LROC of Victoria Australia                      |       2.25 diesel 
LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia            |       My car is constipated,
email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au                   |       It has not passed a 
                                                |       thing all day!!

------------------------------

Date: 29 May 95 20:01:39 EDT
From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com>
Subject: Ser III Charge Light

Hi all.

Just when I thought I had things pretty much squared away in my 72 88 SW the
gremlins are back.  After a nice holiday drive I made a quick stop at a local
store and noticed that after startup the charge light stayed on.  The Rover made
it home (as always) which was about 10 miles.  Knowing that the wiring is not
fully original I pulled the instrument panel and fuesbox apart to check for
obvious problems.  None were found and the wiring on the back of the generator
seemed secure.  The generator belt and pulley seem okay.  

While I had the panel pulled apart I started the engine and jiggled things with
no effect.  Then I cycled lights and heater fan a few times with no effect.
Very shortly thereafter the charge light went out.  I killed the engine and
restarted it multiple times and all seems well.  I buttoned the panel back up.

Normally on startup I have to rev the engine above normal idle to get the charge
light out then it stays out.  Is this normal?  Has anybody any insight as to
what my charge light problem is (was)?  As usual any help will be appreciated.

Thanks        
Steve Rochna & gremlins

------------------------------

From: harincar@internet.mdms.com
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 21:25:28 -0500
Subject: Points & Oil filters

Greetings,

Last week I began a discussion regarding points, and how they seemed
to sort of "work themselves out of adjustment". Thanks for everyones
input; upon inspection, it appeared that everything was reassembled
correctly (when having problems with a new part, its best to assume
pilot error as the first main cause). Anyhow, I finally seemed to solve
the problem by using a .022 gap in the points, rather than the Haynes'
spec'd .014-.016. Interesting. Seems to run like a champ now. Anyone
else use a "wide" point gap?

I also purchased one of Rovers North's spin on oil filter adapters ($45)
but havent put it on yet - any tips for getting the old can out and the
new one on? I hated the can filters - call me a wuss, but I like to be able
to change the oil quickly, often, and with as little mess as possible.
The original can seemed to fit none of the criteria. RN sent a tech report
from an old newsletter along with it which seemed to indicate in a field
test that it performed as designed, with no leaks (!).

Hope all the folks in the US had a good and safe holiday,

Tim
'66 IIa 88 SW
---
tim harincar               harincar@internet.mdms.com

------------------------------

Date: 29 May 95 22:44:19 EDT
From: "MARK C. RITTER" <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Torsen Diffs

I have read several articles on the use of Torsen diffs in Land Rovers. I am
trying to find out if these are a limited slip or locking diff. One of the
articles indicated that the Camel Trophy disco's use these diffs (LRW june
issue). Does anybody out there have any info on these diffs and if so do you
have the name of the manufacturer.
Mark Ritter  94 Disco

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 23:04:42 -0400
From: rziegler@sover.net (Richard Ziegler)
Subject: Steering & Unleaded gas

     Chris Whitehead asked what he should do about his engine head because
of the need to use unleaded gasoline.  Some people will say (and sell you)
to use stellite valves and even stellite seats.  NY state went to all
unleaded gas many years ago.  Thus, for many years I had installed stellite
valves in all the heads that the Land Rover parts company I worked for would
sell and all the engine rebuild jobs I did.  However, in a number of
articles I read about unleaded gas the engine problem that developed was
valve seat recession.  So I asked the fellow doing the machining for me
whether we should also be putting in stellite seats.  His answer was that
our L/R engines were so low compression that we don't even have to be
putting in stellite valves.
     Another point read in an automotive trade magazine:  All the lead that
is going to adhere to the valves and valve seats is deposited there in the
1st 1000 miles or so, therefore, those who have not done a valve job in less
than 1000 mi. and have to use unleaded gasoline should feel free to use it
without using additives.
     2 yrs. and 9 months ago I did an engine rebuild on my '74 88 using
regular valves and have continually used unleaded gasoline (it's all we get
here in VT.) with no ill effects to date.
_____
     RR steering problem:
Ken, as I would advise any L/R owner with a similar problem, check the
steering out by having someone move the steering wheel back & forth through
the free movement area while you watch the movement of the various steering
components on the other side of the firewall.  I would start at the steering
box and work my way down to the chassis bushings.  Look for any components
not moving that should be moving and for any movement of a component that
doesn't seem correct.  This should get you started toward a remedy.
Happy Rovering,
Rich Ziegler, L/R mechanic   '63 88 pet. (in pieces) '74 88 SIII HT pet.
daily driver
*****************************************************************
*   8-bits forever!!      Rick Ziegler     Atari's rule!!       *
*****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Torsen Diffs
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 12:44:10 +0930 (CST)

> I have read several articles on the use of Torsen diffs in Land Rovers.

I'd be interested in finding a supplier/part number for these.

> I am trying to find out if these are a limited slip or locking diff.

As I recall the Gleason Torsen diff is a torque biasing diff.  (ie provides
torque to the wheels in proportion to their ability to provide traction)  I
think they work on a worm-wheel principle (or is this the "dual-drive" I'm
thinking of)

Legend has it that they are muct nicer than a slippery as they provide the
positive drive of a locker but still provide unhindered diff action.
Rumoured to wear fast under racing conditions.   Toygoata used one in the
centre diff of the Wizz Bang Turbo celica's.

Dont know much more.....

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 May 95 21:45:59 PDT
From: steve gross <sgross@enet.net>
Subject: RE: Torsen Diffs 

I currently have a Gleason/Torsen in the rear diff of my Defender 90.  I also have had the unit in my Range Rover.
The device is a torque sensing unit that locks using spiral cut gears in place of the spider gear assembly.
If you start to loose traction, it applies more torque to the slower turning wheel.  If you get one wheel in the air, you 
need to apply brakes to get the unit to lock up.  I  understand that the Hummer uses this type of locking diff as well...

I have an ARB airlocker in the front diff of the D90 also.  

I don't know where you can buy the units- I was given the units for evaluation by the Land Rover Vehicle Test 
Center here in Phoenix a while ago...

-steve

Stephen C. Gross
Pilot B737
America West Airlines

------------------------------

From: JRBIRD@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 01:06:53 -0400
Subject: SUBSCRIBE

I would be pleased to subscribe to your news group. Thankyou,
Jay R. Altman
Land Rover Seattle

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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