Return-Path: lro-digest-owner@uk.stratus.com Received: from lectroid.sw.stratus.com (lectroid.sw.stratus.com [134.111.10.1]) by tornadic.sw.stratus.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id CAA24511 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 1994 02:59:51 -0400 Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA12455 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 1994 02:59:49 -0400 Received: from chunnel.uk.stratus.com (chunnel.uk.stratus.com [198.115.7.11]) by transfer.stratus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA27491 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 1994 02:59:39 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by chunnel.uk.stratus.com (8.6.7/8.6.6) id HAA10664 for lro-digest-outgoing; Wed, 8 Jun 1994 07:55:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 07:55:19 +0100 From: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Message-Id: <199406080655.HAA10664@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Digest Reply-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Errors-To: car-list-rejects@Team.Net X-List-Admin-to: land-rover-owner-request@Team.Net X-Digest-Admin-to: MajorDomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com X-Comment: Not affiliated with the magazine of similar name. Organization: Team.Net Distribution: world Precedence: bulk Land Rover Owner Digest: 1 tomills@diana.cair.du.edu Tue Jun 7 08:11 23/1196 LR in MobiLink commercial 2 maloney@wings.attmail.com Tue Jun 7 12:31 38/1757 Shocks 3 dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Tue Jun 7 15:57 36/1785 Re: check it out - 4 caloccia@sw.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 16:14 38/2183 Re: check it out - 5 dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Tue Jun 7 18:17 49/2855 one down... 6 jory@MIT.EDU Tue Jun 7 18:59 40/1894 Re: one down... 7 maloney@wings.attmail.com Tue Jun 7 19:29 47/2331 Wheel Wobble 8 rsrose@cco.caltech.edu Tue Jun 7 20:00 37/1940 Re: one down... 9 sim1@cornell.edu Tue Jun 7 20:22 42/2780 Re: one down... 10 dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Tue Jun 7 21:49 122/5856 11 ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Tue Jun 7 21:51 52/2407 protective underguard pla 12 UncleBrad@aol.com Wed Jun 8 00:39 28/1149 Compuserve owner needs he 13 vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu Wed Jun 8 02:09 26/1379 Re: protective underguar 14 dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Wed Jun 8 07:51 35/1529 Part number... 15 rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Wed Jun 8 07:51 55/2189 16 dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Wed Jun 8 07:51 45/2050 Tailgate on a 109 SW -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Message-Id: <9406070715.AA26207@diana.cair.du.edu> Subject: LR in MobiLink commercial --another correction Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 01:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Upon seeing the MobiLink commercial a second time, maybe the Land Rover wasn't stuck. Maybe the driver was simply lost. Yeah, that's a lot better. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406071135.HAA13177@transfer.stratus.com> From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 7 Jun 94 23:23:28 GMT Subject: Shocks T. F. Mills asked: none Should I also be replacing the shocks at the same time? Any recommended cheap American brands? (Somebody suggested Sears for $10 each) none T. F., Right before the Sears catalog stores closed I ordered a set of Rancho RS 5000 gas shocks. The Rancho part numbers for an 88 are 5163 and 5169. The invoice doesn't say which is front or back but the longer should go on the back. Sears has reopened their automotive catalog (more limited than it used to be) and is listing Rancho shocks again but no price is given. You could call Rancho direct (310-630-0700) or try one of the off road magazines, choose the ad with the lowest price ($34-$36 last time I looked), and have them shipped. I haven't installed mine yet but will soon as my backordered springs from RN arrived yesterday. Almost forgot, the Rancho shocks have a lifetime warranty, so save your invoice. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406071501.LAA27332@transfer.stratus.com> From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: check it out - Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:02:23 EDT In-Reply-To: <199406070854.EAA26835@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Jun 07, 94 4:54 am Bill G.- V. nice. Especially useful for those that get mail from other groups. I am tempted to be a white mouse, but wonder if the one-day lag time in the postings will get to me (it is nice to get that nearly instantaneous response sometimes, especially when it comes from either side of the pond at the same time). Can we be white mice and still get the undigested form? BTW, brother fred (fadushin@top.cis.syr.edu) has written a script (for his mailer, anyway) that sorts lro mail from his other stuff and writes it to a file. Every so often he prints it out and takes it to his "library" or his "reading room". In the past he has volunteered to send it on to anyone who wants it (it'll only work for those who have the same mailer as he) so send him a request if you do. (He is out of town for a week or so, so be patient.) cheers, rd/nige -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406071518.LAA08613@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> Subject: Re: check it out - Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 11:18:16 -0400 From: William Caloccia > I am tempted to be a white mouse, but wonder > if the one-day lag time in the postings will get to me (it .... > the same time). Can we be white mice and still get the > undigested form? Joining the Digest will not remove you from the Mailing List. (and as usual, even if you wrote me, wanting to leave the mailing list, you'd probably have to wait a few days 'til I got about to editing the list). The wonderful thing for me is I don't actually have to manipulate the Digest List (and if all goes well, I'll set up LRO in the same way) for adds and deletes (unless you do something out of the ordinary). The other things digests tend to do is lower the amount of noise, and promote people sending in one message with multiple comments. So, take it for a test drive - email to lro-digest-request@chunnel.uk.stratus.com -- Bill -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406071720.NAA07459@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:21:42 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: one down... Folks- Nigel's clutch works like a champ. The judder problem is history. Thanks to all who offerred advice, and to those that didn't but meditated on the subject while thinking nice thoughts about that little Nige fellow. Nigel's second persistant problem is one of front wheel wobble. When Nigel hits a bump at just the right speed the steering wheel does the equivalent of a "tank slapper" for those of you well versed in motorcycle lingo. This problem occurs most easily while under "no-load" conditions (not accellerating nor decellerating; just coasting along). Awhile back this problem was addressed........removal of several shims in the swivel pin housing and an alignment pretty much took care of it, but it has gradually returned. The last time I had the steering arms out of the swivel pin housing I noticed that the splines that fit into the cones were a tad buggered up. (Note: this is an old style cone-and-spring setup, with a pendant-i.e. hanging-track rod and the steering arms on top of the swivel pin housings.) Surely, itsa time for replacement, but the steering arms are NLA, and the cone$ and $pring$ ain't cheap. So, taking Mike Rooth's advice of long ago, I've decided to go with Railco bushes. A kit is available from RN ($145.50 US) that apparently includes the bushes, a replacement for my buggered spline (that I'll have to press out of my steering arms and press the new one in), and all the required lock tabs and gaskets. For good measure, I ordered new lower bearings seals (which were replaced just last year but suffered damage in a tank slapper) as well. This kit comes *sans* instructions, and only Charlie (who was tied up) at RN has apparently done the conversion from cones to railco. So, question of the day: anyone done this conversion on the old style cone and spring/pendant track rod setup? Comments or suggestions? Also, my track rod is *slightly* tweeked.......could this make a difference? Should I attempt to straighten it (with heat and persuasion) or just buy new ($60 or so)? Thanks again in advance, rd/nigel -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <9406071803.AA17726@MIT.EDU> X-Sender: jory@figment.mit.edu Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 14:03:57 -0400 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: one down... Just a note on the steering judder experienced by nigel (although not necessarily applicable): When I first had my rover, it had a similar problem. I progressively fixed up the front end, and it would get better, but not quite go away. Even the unwise addition of a rancho steering stabiliser (ahh, those were my young and foolish days ;) failed to totally eliminate the problem. Finally, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to replace all my tires (which were archeological, but otherwise lacking any weird wear patterns). [As a side note: replacing a flat during rush hour on the mass pike in boston with no breakdown lane is quite, ahhh, exhilirating]. Well, after fitting the new tires, the problem finally disappeared. It seems that the tires had acquired weird wear bias of some sort and were sustaining the old vibration despite my having repaired/rebuilt the entire front end. -jory ps: I should be getting my second fuel tank today or tomorrow! The installation should begin in earnest this weekend. -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406071833.OAA13078@transfer.stratus.com> From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 8 Jun 94 06:31:49 GMT Subject: Wheel Wobble Russel wrote: none Nigel's second persistant problem is one of front wheel wobble. When Nigel hits a bump at just the right speed the steering wheel does the equivalent of a "tank slapper" for those of you well versed in motorcycle lingo. This problem occurs most easily while under "no-load" conditions (not accellerating nor decellerating; just coasting along). Awhile back this problem was addressed........removal of several shims in the swivel pin housing and an alignment pretty much took care of it, but it has gradually returned. (not accellerating nor decellerating; just coasting along). Awhile back this Russel, I had a similar problem twice, once after I got the 109 on the road (swivel pin shim adustment cured the problem) then again after I replaced the tie rod ends. I had left a couple of the ends just loose enough to allow that horrible harmonic wheel wobble to set in. A real scary feeling. Checking the tie rod nuts would be cheap & quick. I also noticed the higher the tire pressure the greater the magnitude of the wobble. Also check your steering relay and make sure it's not dry. It can cause the same problem. If your tie rod is bent far enough, it might flex enough to cause the wobble, but I think it would have to be bent pretty far. Sorry, I haven't done a Railco bush conversion and can't help you on that end. I'm not certain, but I believe the old style lower steering arm can be converted to the later upper arm type. Cost would be an issue. If the old stuff's in good shape, I'd leave it alone. Good Luck! Bill -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Subject: Re: one down... Date: 7 Jun 1994 19:04:13 GMT The conversion to Railko bushes is really straight forward, doesn't vary for pendant or non-pendant steering. Since the wear surfaces are fiber, they like to stay lubricated and empregnated with oil; this system is less forgiving to those who do not engage locking hubs for extended periods of time. When dried out, they wear at an accelerated rate or begin to seize and stiffen up. (Personal bias: I run without locking hubs.) My Series I 107 got converted to Railko's last year. The conversion kits usually do not come with shims for trucks with 3/8 studs, but with shims for 7/16" ones. Best to accumulate some (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if he has pendant arms. Tie rod should be OK if reasonably straightened in a press or vice. Randy -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:26:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199406071926.PAA09527@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) X-Sender: sim1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Subject: Re: one down... Seconding Jory's note: When I first bought my 107 wagon in 1970, I bought the finest tires (my) money could buy: 4 bias ply sand-imbedded retread snow tires. The tire shop must have known they had gotten the last of my money. Could it have been the rolls of coins that I paid them with? So they didn't even ask if I wanted them balanced. Every once in a while, the front end would start shaking like it was going to fall off. The only way to get it to stop shaking was to come to an almost complete stop. I lived in Maine at the time, so it was easier to do that than on the Mass. Pike. After several years of this, I became friends with a guy who owned a tire shop. The first time he took a ride in the Land Rover, the front end started shaking. He told me to bring it to his shop the next day. He properly balanced all four wheels and the shaking never returned. Some day I'll have to see what all those years of shaking may have damaged in the front end, but the problem did go away without touching any front end components. Could that be the reason for a badly worn front differential, I wonder? I'll be picking up Michael Ramage's cast off front axle on Thursday, which I hope will supply the components to fix that problem. If not, it'll at least provide me with some exercise. <--------------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Distributed Technologies Technical Support | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <--------------------------------------------------------------> -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406072052.QAA23204@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 16:54:07 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Jory wrote: none Just a note on the steering judder experienced by nigel (although not necessarily applicable): When I first had my rover, it had a similar problem. I progressively fixed up the front end, and it would get better, but not quite go away. Even the unwise addition of a rancho steering stabiliser (ahh, those were my young and foolish days ;) failed to totally eliminate the problem. Finally, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to replace all my tires (which were archeological, but otherwise lacking any weird wear patterns). [As a side note: replacing a flat during rush hour on the mass pike in boston with no breakdown lane is quite, ahhh, exhilirating]. Well, after fitting the new tires, the problem finally disappeared. It seems that the tires had acquired weird wear bias of some sort and were sustaining the old vibration despite my having repaired/rebuilt the entire front end. none hmm. Got some old 7.5 x 16 Michelin radials here...... **************************************************************** And Bill M. wrote: none I had a similar problem twice, once after I got the 109 on the road (swivel pin shim adustment cured the problem) then again after I replaced the tie rod ends. I had left a couple of the ends just loose enough to allow that horrible harmonic wheel wobble to set in. A real scary feeling. Checking the tie rod nuts would be cheap & quick. I also noticed the higher the tire pressure the greater the magnitude of the wobble. Also check your steering relay and make sure it's not dry. It can cause the same problem. If your tie rod is bent far enough, it might flex enough to cause the wobble, but I think it would have to be bent pretty far. none Tie rod ends are new (last year), will check on their nuts, and the relay is surely dry or nearly so by now (it leaks like a sieve, and I oughta do the seal, but not looking forward to that job so I just keep on topping it off and lubing my frame). As for the bend, well, it's bent all right, but I am not so sure it is the problem. ***************************************************************** And Randy wrote: none The conversion to Railko bushes is really straight forward, doesn't vary for pendant or non-pendant steering. Since the wear surfaces are fiber, they like to stay lubricated and empregnated with oil; this system is less forgiving to those who do not engage locking hubs for extended periods of time. When dried out, they wear at an accelerated rate or begin to seize and stiffen up. (Personal bias: I run without locking hubs.) My Series I 107 got converted to Railko's last year. The conversion kits usually do not come with shims for trucks with 3/8 studs, but with shims for 7/16" ones. Best to accumulate some (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if Tie rod should be OK if reasonably straightened in a press or vice. (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if All good to know. Thanks! **************************************************************** And Steve, the lucky guy in Ithaca, wrote: (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if Seconding Jory's note: When I first bought my 107 wagon in 1970, I bought the finest tires (my) money could buy: 4 bias ply sand-imbedded retread snow tires. The tire shop must have known they had gotten the last of my money. Could it have been the rolls of coins that I paid them with? So they didn't even ask if I wanted them balanced. Every once in a while, the front end would start shaking like it was going to fall off. The only way to get it to stop shaking was to come to an almost complete stop. I lived in Maine at the time, so it was easier to do that than on the Mass. Pike. After several years of this, I became friends with a guy who owned a tire shop. The first time he took a ride in the Land Rover, the front end started shaking. He told me to bring it to his shop the next day. He properly balanced all four wheels and the shaking never returned. Some day I'll have to see what all those years of shaking may have damaged in the front end, but the problem did go away without touching any front end components. Could that be the reason for a badly worn front differential, I wonder? I'll be picking up Michael Ramage's cast off front axle on Thursday, which I hope will supply the components to fix that problem. If not, it'll at least provide me with some exercise. (my) money could buy: 4 bias ply sand-imbedded retread snow tires. The Balancing my wheels was the last thing I did (just before re-realigning the front end-the toe in adjustment-) last year. That *seemed* to have helped the problem, but now it is back. (Maybe I lost a weight somewhere along the line.?!) Watch out for a hernia! Thanks all. Methinks that since I know my spline is nearly shot (on the steering arm), and since this gives rise to some complete *free* play in the swivel on the LH side (and this is _usually_ the side that gives me trouble.....ie bumps on the left are worse than bumps on the right) that I'm gonna go ahead and do this Railco conversion. Gotta be this weekend if I expect to make the OVLR party, but it's now haying season and there's work to be done............ Rgds, rd/nigel -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Message-Id: <9406072055.AA13345@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Subject: protective underguard plates... Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:55:08 -0500 (CDT) In looking thru ads in LRO, I noted some protective shields that can be attached to the front of a LR to protect the steering track rods: SOUTHDOWN UNDERGUARD PROTECTIVE SYSTEM Steering guards, Front axle guards, Axle guards & fuel tank Guards. Specifically page 144 of February (the only one I have at the office, today). Being a welding/galvanizing fool, I said to myself "I can make one of those". Any netters out there seen one or have one. It seems to me they would be protective in heavy brush or heavy rocks. Protect the track rods and maybe the brake hoses. I am interested cause I think it might make Lulu look a little tougher and the jeepers might recoil in fear. And maybe a diamond design plate might look good. And if you are making one, you might as well make three... 1. what thickness (say 3/16) plate do they use. 2. It appears that the track-rod protector attaches to the spring shackel bolt on the front -- how might it attach at the rear? 3. any ideas on costs -- maybe I should just buy one... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: UncleBrad@aol.com Sender: "UncleBrad" Message-Id: <9406071942.tn937822@aol.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 19:42:11 EDT Subject: Compuserve owner needs help Benjamin Newman of Florida just gave me a call & could use some assistance geting out to this group from CompuServe. I'm just about useless in that dept. since I usually just hit the "Reply" button that my software provided. His CompuServe address is 71773,3457. Thanks a million! Brad Blevins -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 18:12:25 PDT From: Vance Chin Message-Id: <9406080112.AA29946@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: protective underguard plates... I just found out that a Camel Trophy 110 is about 8 blocks away from my house today. In looking at it from both top and bottom, I noticed a nice protector plate in the front. It was 1/2 inch plate aluminum! It was pretty simple, it was just a simple rectangle with a bend in the front. Your hardest problem is going to be making this bend. Vance Chin Series III 88 -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Subject: Part number... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 11:59:16 -0400 Anyone have a non-Land Rover part number for the Swivel Ball seal? A chap up here wants to get a new seal from the local parts house, but requires some number that can be cross-referenced between manufacturers. Thx, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Message-Id: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 19:39:37 -0400 Hello you all, back on the system after the D Day weekend. i have some news for you all. The Canadian Armed forces have bought 3 Land Rover 110 CAV 100 vehicles. These are armoured and are based on a 110 chassis cab and are fitted with a package made by Courtaulds aerospace. The liason officers with the Canadian UN mission goe alone into lonely places and need protection. This need was identified early on and up unitl recently these officers were using British CAV 100's on loan. All three vehciles are left hand drive and are fitted with riot screens for the windows. Our defence department is very cagey about vehcile buys as another project is taking a slamming in the press, so it was hard to worm this info out of them, my thanks go to my source who will remain nameless for the time being. In case you did not know the Canadian forces do not usually use Land Rovers in military service. More later, Rgds Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Subject: Tailgate on a 109 SW From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Message-Id: <846JNc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 13:24:54 -0400 bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) writes: > is it possible to replace the swing out door on the back of a 109 SW > with a tailgate (in combination with ??? for the upper half). Like most anything Land Roverish, the answer is yes, but with a provision If you have the original rear crossmember on there, it will be missing the two brackets that are required for the tailgate to swing on. Other than that, all you need to do is acquire all of the bits required.. I don't know of the situation down there, but up here the bits required for thehatch hat goes above are pretty rare. Tailgates are usually in pretty poor shape, though obtainable. The other part, well... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST