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Infobahn AtlasFrom car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 08:03:28 1994 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 14:49:27 BST Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <Xms3Jc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Mar 31, 94 6:33 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Robin Craig asks: > On the early military series two lightweight's the badge on the front was > an enlarged oval made out of plastic, somewhat similar to the plastic > badge on the 110 / 90 series at one stage. the dealer says that this is > not so. > Any comments please? Early Lightweight SII's over here had metal mesh grilles and metal oval badge (and wings w/o headlights). The term 'lightweight' was something of a misnomer of course. Best Regards, Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 10:51:41 1994
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 11:03:19 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Top-end Lubricator
X-Status:
Status: RO
>> and a local equivalent to Marvel Mystery Oil?
>I had always thought that Marvel Mystery Oil was just automatic
>transmission fluid, being more of a solvent than an oil. It was fairly
>common to add it to a running engine through the carb to clean out some of
>the carbon, or add it to the oil to free sticky valves (be sure to change
>the oil soon though :-).
-Pete-
According to the blurb that came with the lubricator, Marvel Mystery Oil
has a higher flash point than normal internal combustion temperatures, so
it supposedly can lubricate without being consumed in the process. If
true, I'd be certain to disconnect the thing if going in for an emission
control test.
Marvel is also suggested as a cold-weather oil thinner, particularly for
diesel engines. It can also be added to fuels, either petrol or diesel.
Besides, the stuff smells so good, you could use it for a dessert topping! :-)
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 11:52:50 1994
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 11:56:30 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Internet message
X-Status:
Status: RO
Russell writes:
>as for my compression woes...this sounds like a good idea, but i am not
>familiar with these babies-are they bolt-on or do i have to drill holes in
>my intake manifold to install them??....if i run out of marvel, will it
>suck air???
The Ampco lubricator is fairly easy to install on a 2.25. Locate a place
for the bottle (the units comes in pint and quart sizes): I chose the pint
size and a place next to the screen washer bottle on the inner wing (Series
III). Available from the distributor are various thin adapter plates that
sandwich to the bottom of the carb base so's you don't have to drill or tap
anything, but of course, this doesn't include Rovers.
The zenith set up on the 2.25 has a 3/4" or so tall aluminum distance
piece...what the PCV valve is connected to...just above the bakelite
distance piece that actually sits on the intake manifold. The metal is
easy to drill and tap, though not on the vehicle, of course :-(. The unit
comes with an injector that is 1/8 or 1/4" NPT (national pipe thread) with
a compression nut fitting for the copper tubing to the bottle and meter assembly.
The instructions suggest forming the copper tube into a an 'anti-vibration
coil'. Even so, I found that the engine vibrations would shear off the
copper tube right at the compression nut. Fitted 1" of neoprene tubing in
place, and it has been trouble free for 20,000 miles. I still use a lead
substitute as well, though.
There are other optional attachment points, such as the vacuum port on the
intake manifold (late IIa's and III's), but then it may not provide even
distribution to all cylinders. Perhaps on V-8's the tubing could be T'ed
to two or more points to equalize the flow. The unit draws so little air
that it wouldn't be noticeable when depleted.
Another point...Marvel seems to dissolve every known sealant compound...
Permatex hard and soft, silicones, RTV, even Hylomar. Reminds me of the
chemist who invented a universal solvent...then he could't find anything to
keep it in :-). Good day to y'all.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 19:32:32 1994
To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu
From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840)
Newsgroups: mlist.lro
Subject: Re: Supplier list
Date: 1 Apr 1994 17:11 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4
X-Status:
Status: RO
In article <199404012310.RAA01832@mail.utexas.edu>, hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes...
>4/1/94
>
>
>----------
>British Pacific
>Steve Hedke
>3317 Burton Ave.
>Burbank, CA 91504
>Tel.(818)841-8945
>800-554-4133
>Fax.(818)841-3825
>
> Benjamin Smith says "As for British Pacific, the sell only Genuine parts,
>but they buy them from Rovers North. So British Pacific's prices are
>higher than RN! The lastissue of British Pacific's catalog did not contain
>prices.
>They also keep a very small selection of items in stock. If you want a big
>piece,
>like a leaf spring, they will have to order it for you from RN and charge
>you RN's price+shipping+BP's markup." Brad Blevins reports thought that
>they have cut prices recently.
>
>----------
Brad is right. British Pacific has a new owner as of January, 1994. Steve
Hedke has cut prices and is replenishing stock that has been low for years.
He seems to have the right attitude, and lots of enthusiam for the marque.
British Pacific is now below Rovers North (on some stuff, WAY below), and
their parts are genuine. Some prices I got:
109 Dual master cyl: 125.00
109 front brake shoes: 23.00
axles short/long: 57.00/59.00
4 cyl headset: 24.00
16" rims: NRC7578 - 59.00, 239601 - 63.00
waterpump: 81.00
88" springs: ftlft - 68, ftrt - 66.00, rrlft - 95.00, rrrt - 86.00
yes, different springs for all four corners!
They also stock wire in STOCK colors for looms, and lots of different Lucas
connectors and bits. Used parts too. Hopefully they will be able to maintain
these prices; they will re-evaluate the pricing structure in September.
This Rover shop has been around for a long time, and a lot of us around here
have been waiting for it to come up to its potential. It looks like it may
have a chance!
Randy Rose
Pasadena, California
(818)395-3840
rsrose@iago.caltech.edu
California Institute of Technology
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 2 14:41:43 1994
From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 94 15:16:09 EST
Encoding: 1105 Text
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu,
rally@stratus.com
Subject: New York Auto Show
Content-Length: 1084
X-Status:
Status: RO
A quick report from the NY Auto Show -- Land Rover had its new
Discovery on display -- both stripped ($28,900) and loaded ($34,000).
Only differences were auto versus 5 speed, twin sunroofs, leather and
a couple of minor options. First sport/ute with dual airbags and 4
channel ABS. The Discovery is much better looking in the flesh than in
the pictures published in Automobile and others...LR also had a fully
loaded Discovery from the Camel GT rally...neat stuff...
Each dealer now has one to show, none to go. Inventory is expected in
May. LR also showed a new Range Rover with an updated dash including
twin airbags. I believe that this is the early 1995 model, replacing
an abbreviated 1994 run. For those of you that have to know --
$53,000!
The show runs through next week at the Javits Center - 8 bucks for
adults, 2 for kids. A lot of fun
BTW, I'm not yet getting mail from the Rally or LR owner list, maybe
this will help move things along.
Lee
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 08:18:43 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Weekend activities thus far...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 23:06:36 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Well, a most productive weekend thus far. After discussing the
fascinating progress occurring on Dale's rebuild (got that first
bolt out yet?) Friday night and an evening of recovery it was off
to the usual spot in Almonte. Arriving at a suitably fashioanble
time I discovered George sitting in the passenger seat of his 109
pick-up. Before him was a circuit tester, the wiring diagram for
an early Series IIA positive earth taped to the windscreen, a Land
Rover Series IIA factory manual to his right opened to the later
negative earth wiring diagram, and to round everything out, yet
another manual opened on the right wing of my 109 to yet another,
different wiring diagram. He didn't look happy... :-) Time to
distract him, as I had a set of bearings and rings in the Rabbit.
Dumping the oil and the anti-freeze took only a moment before it
was time for a break. By this time Ted had arrived and
unfortunately for me, was highly motivated. It took all of about
fifteen minutes to pull the head off of the engine and see what was
happening in there. Starting with pulling all of the wires,
disconnecting the Weber, the temperature sensor, oil pipe, and
other easy stuff. With me under the Land Rover pulling the sump
off, Ted used an impact gun to get all of the head bolts out.
Undoing the exhaust, we were able to pull off the head.
Carbon build-up wasn't *that* bad, though it was obvious that the
engine had been run lean for a while. Two of the exhaust valves
had been played with at one point and were flush with the head.
The piston tops were carbonned up, with one showing early signs of
malting once in the past. The engine turned freely with little
resistance.
George and I pulled the first piston. It, like all of the rest,
required a little hammering from underneath to get the rings to
clear the ridge that had built up in all of the bores. Once a
piston was out, it was wire wheeled to clean off all of the carbon
deposits, washed down in varsol to clean out the grooves.
One interesting thing was the difference between the rings found on
the piston, and those that replaced them. The rings found were as
follows. The top ring was a single ring, as was the replacement.
The middle ring had a thing spring-like insert running about under
the ring. The replacement didn't. The original bottom ring had
four parts. An underlying spring, a main ring, and two thin spacer
rings on the top and bottom. The replacement set didn't have these
spacers.
The new rings in place, the piston was pushed back down the bore
and with new bearings re-bolted onto the crank. With the first
piston, we could fairly easily turn over the engine. With the
second piston turning over the engine became more difficult. By
the time we had the fourth piston in, we could turn over the
engine. We could barely move the engine with a breaker bar on the
crank. Definately a tight engine...
With the pistons replaced, we torqued down the rods, and replaced
the head and did up all of the bolts. By six o'clock, we were
ready to call it quits and retire for the evening. Not too bad for
a leasurely afternoon I guess.
This morning, the task of the day was to finish off the remaining
work and actually get the Land Rover going. loosening the sump, we
got the last three bolts in, hooked up the mechanical temperature
sensor, hooked up the Weber, added all sorts of oil soaked &
swollen wires (the replacements are in transit), added oil,
anti-freeze, and were finally ready to go by about 11am.
With much effort we managed to push the 109 out of the garage where
we drove up Ted's 88 and tried boosting the engine. No such luck,
the engine didn't even budge, though the volt meter in Ted's LR
showed a significant drop. Pushing it further down the door yard,
we got it in position where we could attach a bloody great chunk of
rope. Down the driveway we went.
Once on the road, Ted got the pair of vehicle up to about 20 mph,
when in 3rd gear I dropped the clutch. The engine instantly turned
over, but you couldn't apply any gas before some rather spectacular
backfiring shot up through the carb. (The 109 was sans-bonnet for
this). Due to large crowds and traffic at the maple sugar bush on
the next property, we had to stop for a moment be fore trying again
down the road. By the time we got down to the next sugar bush,
some 1/4 of a mile, the 109 could actaully maintain a fast idle
while at rest.
Disconnecting the two LRs, Ted followed me about the block (well,
about a four mile circuit) while the 109 struggled with the new
rings. Going back to George's we let the 109 idle for a while,
before it was nearly out of gas. Tomorrow I will be bringing more
gas, and another drive around the block will be in order. Maybe
even some mud... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. Dale, you got rings and bearings in my last order... :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 3 18:17:26 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 17:45:42 -0400 From: ad158@dayton.wright.edu (Andrew Steele) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Wall St Journal X-Status: Status: RO
>From the Tuesday, March 29 Wall Street Journal, B-Section How to Drive an Off-Road Car Off the Road, by staff writer Neal Templin (I'll try to cover the high points) EASTNOR CASTLE, England-I take my foot off the brakes and start down "Gearbox Hill," a steep, muddy track that looks more suitable for mountain goats than motor vehicles. The Land Rover rumbles down the bumpy ruts like a train on rails. Suddenly, the huge four-wheel-drive vehicle begins veerinf off the track as my instructor yells, Steer straingt!" Despite my best efforts to do exactly that, the Land Rover continues to drift sideways on the steep hillside until it violently clouts a tree, which some
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 09:37:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: wrinkle paint From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 09:05:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > Wrinkle paint used to be available in spray cans at almost any hardware stor > A while back it was taken off the sheleves here in the SF Bay area because > it was supposedly bad for the ozone or harp seals or spotted lemmings or > whatever. But, I thought it was just a local outbreak of fanatical stupidity. > Maybe it's outlawed everywhere. It is correct for your LR horn button. > > R, bg > >
> > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Mar 31 10:51:16 1994 > > Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu > > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > > Subject: wrinkle paint > > Content-Length: 366 > > X-Lines: 8 > > > > i was asking what would be a good finish for the steering wheel cap (from > > which i had stripped the original/flaking paint during the frame-up) and > > charlie at rover's north suggested something called black "wrinkle paint." > > he said it was like the paint used on some consumer electronics, etc. i > > have been unable to locate such a beast. anyone have any ideas? > > > > -jory > > > > Check out Eastwood Tools, Fax: 610 644 0560. They have it in Black, Brown and Red. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 12:10:25 1994
From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon)
Date: 4 Apr 94 17:00:03 GMT
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Message-Service: mail
Subject: Land Rover Mailing List Request
Content-Type: Text
Status: RO
Dixon & Sandy,
Thanks for your advice about attempting to reach William Callocia regarding my
being included on the LRO mailing list. I did forward my name and site to him
last week but have not yet received a response. He may be on vacation.
I got my 88 on the road this weekend. I forgot how much fun it is to re-learn
the art of double clutching the IIA Gearbox. Not that I've ever fully
mastered it. Outside of filling the RH swivel housing, nothing needed any
attention.
It seems that on both my Rovers the RH swivel balls are more badly pitted
than the LH. I wonder if it is due to the RH side being subject to road
shoulder gravel, water, and salt? Is the opposite true for the UK and
Australia?
This weekend I also dissasembled the head off my 109. I bought new stellite
exhaust valves from Rovers North along with guides and planned to have
hardened steel exhaust seats installed. As I checked the play of the intake
valves in their guides I noticed a couple of them were a bit sloppy. Upon
removing the valves I could see significant wear on the two intake valves in
question. I was suprised, as the vacuum in the intake manifold tends to draw
oil into the intake valve guides and those guides and valves usually do not
wear (as opposed to the exhaust guides where the positive exhaust pressure
tends to blow the oil out of those guides). I ordered new intake valves and
guides and expect to drop the head off at my machine shop by the weekend. I'll
let you know what $ the head work comes to.
One thing puzzles me. When I placed my last order through Paddock I requested
a set of stellite exhaust valves. They said they had never heard of such a
thing. I replied that they are a heavier duty valve with a heat resistant
coating used for unleaded fuel applications. I was told that they did not
have such a valve for 2.25 heads, but that the valves from a 2.5 head would
handle unleaded. Not knowing the interchangability of guides, keepers, and
spring caps, I decided to buy them locally. If anyone could shed some light
on this subject, please let me know.
I have also heard third hand that 109 SW springs on the rear of an 88 give it
a nicer ride. If anyone has had any experience with this application please
let me know. The springs that are currently on my 88 are bastardized from
many different springs. It sits fairly level, but there are different numbers
and thicknesses of leaves on the springs of the same axle. It tends to crab
down the road (only noticable from behind) and bumps can be quite exiting.
If anyone would like to reply to me please use:
mordor!njncaps!attmail!attbl!wmalon
I am not yet on the LRO mailing list but I'll let you know when it happens.
Thanks
Bill Maloney
201 428-3491
wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com
AT&T
Rm. CC24
4 Woodhollow Rd.
Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 15:55:00 1994
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 1994 16:31:40 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Destruction of...
Status: RO
Typically, in tech-help pieces, newsgroup members describe various
techniques to get you back from an off-road calamity. Well, what happens
if you can't bring your vehicle back? Say you're driving through the
desert one fine afternoon, but as (bad) luck would have it, you just happen
to get bogged down in the sand at the same moment you are accosted by an
Iraqi mechanized battalion. Obviously, you do not want those chuckle-heads
taking your prize back to cruise the boulevards of Baghdad, so you dig out
the "USER HANDBOOK, Truck, Utility, 3/4 Ton, 4 X 4 (Military 109 Pub.
3/82)" from the kit and turn to page 183, Section V: "Destruction of
Equipment to Prevent Enemy Use".
Sec. 402 DEGREE OF DAMAGE.
(1) Methods of destruction should achieve such damage to equipment and
essential spare parts so that it will not be possible to restore the
equipment to a usable condition in the combat zone either by repair or by cannibalization.
(3) Any classified documents, notes, instructions or other written
material pertaining to function, operation, maintenance or employment,
including drawing or parts lists, must be destroyed in a manner to render
them useless to the enemy.
Sec. 403 PRIORITIES FOR DESTRUCTION.
(1) Priority must be given to the destruction of classified equipment
and associated documents.
(3) Equipment Priority Destruction: 1) Carburetor and distributor; 2)
Engine block and cooling system; 3) Tyres; 4) Hydraulic system; 5) Axle and
suspensions; 6) Body.
Sec. 407 REPORTING. The reporting of the destruction of equipment is to be
done through the command channels.
Sec. 408 METHODS OF DESTRUCTION. The following information is for guidance
only. Of the several means of destruction, those most generally applicable
are as under.
Sec. 409 MECHANICAL. This requires an axe, pick, crowbar or similar
implement. The vehicle and radio installation should be destroyed in
accordance with the priorities given in para. 403.
Sec. 410 BURNING.
(5) With all hatches and windows open to admit air for combustion, pour
gasoline and oil over the entire vehicle. Ignite by means of an incendiary
grenade fired from a safe distance, by a burst from a flame thrower, by a
combustible train of suitable length, or by appropriate means.
*WARNING:* Cover must be taken without delay since an early explosion of
the fuel tank may be caused by the fire. Due consideration should be given
to the highly flammable nature of gasoline and its vapour. Carelessness in
its use may result in painful burns.
Sec. 411 GUNFIRE.
(1) Remove and empty the portable fire extinguishers.
(2) Smash all vital components such as carburetor, distributor, spark
plugs, lightswitches, instruments and control levers. Destroy the radio
equipment by smashing with a heavy implement.
(3) Smash the engine block, engine cylinders, gearbox, transfer box,
axle and suspension.
(4) Drain or puncture the fuel tank.
(5) Destroy the vehicle by gunfire, using adjacent gun tanks, self
propelled guns, artillery, rifles using rifle grenades, or launchers using
anti-tank rockets. Fire on the vehicle, aiming at the road wheels, engine
compartment and transmission. Although one well-placed direct hit *may*
render the vehicle *temporarily* useless, several hits are usually required
for complete destruction unless an intense fire is started, in which case
the vehicle may be considered destroyed.
*WARNING*: Firing artillery at ranges of 500 yards or less should be done
from cover. Firing rifle grenades or anti-tanks rockets should also be
done from cover.
Let me see if I've got this straight: First, you smash up everything with
a weighty implement. Then you hit the vehicle with *several* high
explosive, anti-tank rounds, after which it *might* be rendered inoperable,
but only if it burns fiercely! Jeez, and all you have to do to destroy a
Detroit-built vehicle is drive it for a while! Looks like I'm going to
have to add a few items to the spares kit: if anyone knows where I can get
a good, low-mileage flame thrower or a few rifle- or rocket-propelled
grenades, please ring me up at the club HQ.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 23:03:34 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Badges...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 22:02:50 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Robin, about six months ago you mentioned at an OVLR meeting what
do do with old badges that are flaking. I have the original badge
from the front of my 109 Station Wagon here, and it is half white
metal, with the flaking paint. How would I remove the paint and re
do it? I belive you mentioned something about EasyOff...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 21:44:13 1994
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 22:33:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@css.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: BMW acquisition
To: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
Thought that folk might be interested in this. A US slant, but
interesting, since details of the deal and the ensuing reactions aren't in
news over here.
--chris '69 88 IIa
Acquisitions column in Chilton's March 1994 Automotive Industries
BMW Buys Rover; Britain Goes Ballistic
(Cartoon from the Daily Star showing a two japanese driving a topless
defender off the assembly line with a german military officer 'sieg heil'ing
(sp?) and some soldiers in the back (maybe ment to represent Brit gov?)
ommitted)
When BMW announced it would by 80% of Rover for 1.2 billion from British
Aerospace last month, it touched a raw nerve with the British people.
"The Invasion of the Huns," screamed the headlines from the tabloid Daily
Express. "God help British industry," blared Today. According to London
automotive analyst Karl Ludvigsen, the takeover by BMW is a "bitter
set-back."
Selling off Rover means losing the last of the great British carmakers.
Nevertheless, more prudent Britons know that Rover had no alternative.
One motor industry consultant's comment: "It's a pity, but Rover is not
viable on its own."
Despite the impressive turnaround, the automaker cannot survive by itself.
In terms of technology, Rover is almost entirely dependent on Honda, which
owns 20%. The Rover 400, 600 and 800 are all Honda cars built under
license.
Thanks to Honda, Rover made an impressive comeback in its last fiscal
year, after two years of losses. With sales of 4.3 billion pounds, Rover
managed for the first time to post an operation profit of 56 million
pounds. On top of that, Rover was the only European carmaker to increase
sales last year. Rover sold 387, 716 vehicles in Europe, an increase of
8% on the previous year. Its market share in Western Europe rose from 2.5
to 3.5%, stealing share from both Mercedes and Toyota.
BMW gets a full range of vehicles, as well as the rights to 17 famous
brand names, including MG, Austin, Range Rover, Riley and Triumph. Most
importantly, with Land Rover, BMW will beat Mercedes-Benz into the
lucrative US sport-utility market.
Marketing cars under the Sterling brand, Rover pulled out of the US in the
late `802. A comeback is now more than likely with the aid of BMW's
stateside distribution network. For its part, Honda tried up to the last
minute to raise its 20% of Rover stake to 48% -- it deliberately wanted to
avoid taking a majority stake. But Rover's main share-holder British
Aerospace only wanted to sell its entire 80% share -- and Honda doesn't
have the cash.
Now BMW and Honda UK have to negotiate their common future -- if there is
one. Honda is acting hurt. "We are not interested in working with BMW,"
the company says. Experts on Japan believe that Honda will pull out of
its cooperation with Rover within the next two years.
-Stephan Marquardt
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:35 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Easyoff...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 12:00:23 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Seems somehow someone along the line managed to merge two messages
together thus rendering my original question incomprehensible. No
matter, the intended recieient of the message saw one word, figured
out he was the guilt party and answered. Below is the answer, but
to start, the original question posed was thus: If you have a
badge that is losing its paint quickly to the elements, how do you
get all of the old stuff off, so that you can add a nice coat of
black paint. As the two badges on the 109 are beginning to look
pretty tatty, as well as being unreadible in their current
paint/half silver backdrop, an easy solution was required. Robin
supplied the answer...
---------
Dixon, I saw something tagged onto the last message on LRO about
easy off. I have used original lemon (yellow can) easy off for the
longest time as a paint remover.
It works well on metal or plastic and will not melt the plastic in
any way. Take the item to be cleaned and make sure it is dry to
start with.
Put it in the set in sink in the basement. Take a large breath and
do no not inhale now (work fast!). Spray a geneous caot over the
object allowing the foam to buid up and completly cover the item.
Exit stage left. After about 1 to 2 hours revisit the sink. make
sure that the easy off has not dried up if all possible. Take a
toothe brush or a similar device, nail brush would do. Run warm
water over the object and scrub at the same time. caution if you
have any open cuts on your hands they will burn like abastard if
they come into contact with the run off mixture.
If tis did not tottally remove the paint then let the item stand
and DRY completely before starting over again. If the item is still
wet then it will repell the easy off for attemp number two.
I have taken a front badge for a Land Rover, ser 2 that had been on
a military at BATUS and was just caked with paint. After 3
apllications it was clean.
I also use this for my scale models when the painting goes wrong as
i can completly clean the whole thing without damaging the fine
detail.
rgds
robin
-------------
Rgds,
Dixon
PS: The 109 started almost instantly yesterday. The engine turned
over about three times before firing. So while Dale toiled
away in an office, the 109 raced around the fields and swamps
of Almonte... <grin>
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 12:16:14 1994
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 12:58:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@ACC.ROANOKE.EDU>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Transmission
Status: RO
Hello everyone! This is the first time I have sent out anything since being on
the mail list so bear with me please. My name is Stuart Moore and I live in
Salem Virginia. I am graduating from Roanoke College in May and one of my first
projects after graduation is going to be getting my dad's 1961 Series II 88" back
on the road (or the mud). The first and main thing I'm going to need for this
old workhorse is a transmission. When we were driving it last (1985) first gear
was chipped badly and unusable. Reverse was in almost the same condition. It
also had a terrific grease leak (perhaps a cracked case, but I could never tell).
It would empty its entire contents while sitting over a 48 hour period. Do any
of you know of the location of a good tranny which could be bought cheaply. I
would even put in the extra bucks for one with an overdrive to increase its
gearing on the highway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Without the
tranny my restoration will never get off the ground. Thanks.
Stuart
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 17:07:51 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 5 Apr 94 17:49:12 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Sting & Thermostat Housings Content-Type: Text Status: RO I was channel surfing over the weekend and caught the tail end of a news segment showing Sting driving a Discovery over an indoor off-road course at the NY Auto show. I wish I had seen more and could find nothing about it on any other channels or in the papers the next day. Sorry. ______________________________________________________________________________ My 109 2.25 has been running warm ever since I installed the new engine last summer. In diagnosing the situation I had replaced the thermostat, radiator (for other reasons), adjusted timing, and checked for wheel and parking brakes binding. Several of the items when attended to made a slight difference, but when I got it up to 100kph, the needle would start to climb. Previously the needle would hover at the low side of the "N", but was now at the high side and would climb towards the red when driven fast. Over the past few months I had hoped it would settle down as the engine wore in, and it did, but would still climb when driven fast. Recently I saw a tech article in someone's newsletter detailing the operation of the skirt on the thermostat that blocks off the bypass hole once the engine is warm to allow more the coolant to circulate through the radiator. The engine I rebuilt was out of a '61 series II (?) using the flat thermostat. I had changed the thermostat top housing to the later type but did not change the bottom half, as I thought it was the same. Well, I pulled out my IIA parts book and low and behold there were two different part #s for early and late bottom pieces. So last night I pulled the thermostat assembly off the engine and compared it to the old piece. At first glance there appeared to be no difference in the placement of the bypass holes, but with the thermostat in place, the skirt was about a third of an inch lower covering the bypass hole on the later piece than the early piece. This meant that instead of circulating coolant through the radiator, a good portion of it was going back into the engine block. I bolted up the assembly using the later bottom piece and took it for a ride. The needle was significantly lower but I figured a highway drive would be the acid test. It was. I drove it down 287 today at 60kph and the needle reached the middle of the "N" and stayed there. Eureka! If anyone else has an early 2.25 that runs warm but does not overheat, try replacing the thermostat bottom housing. It may do the trick. Bill Maloney 201 428-3491 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 16:01:12 1994
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 14:13:48 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Rover books
Status: RO
Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages
with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors
even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle!
However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David
Hardcastle, and both for around $36.
"The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE.
"Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 16:27:18 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 14:14:20 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Doormobiles Status: RO Where might I find more information on Doormobiles? I've read the little amount of information in the FAQ and was wondering if any of the various rover books might have some more info on them. | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================|
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:32:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just an update on my much maligned progress to date on the work on my Land Rover. Over the weekend, which I should point out ends on Monday for those of us that work for a living, Dixon, I managed to get some things done. I installed the batteries, found a better ground for the negative cable, and got it *started*. I could not resist taking it for a spin around the block. I also managed to take the roof off, BY MYSELF. Most of the aches and pains are gone. Next I plan to install a alternator, will keep you posted. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 20:19:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Couple of questions for you guys to ponder over;- Is the step ring on the front wheels of a 2/ 2a 109 /110 the same ring as on a 101" Forward control? Can you fit an overdrive to a forward control ( with the factory engine and tranny etc) Can you fit the wheels and rims from a 1 ton 109" onto a lightweight? yes I know it will decrease the turning circle [D! rgds Robin Craig, Ottawa, Canada, -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 18:41:21 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 5 Apr 94 18:26:57 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: !!!!!BACKFIRE!!!!! Status: RO my good old rover is backfiring. it seem that my solex carb was loose between the float bowl assembly and throttle body so i replaced the gasket simple but now it seems to backfire and run on. someone suggested that it may be too lean so i richened it up alot and still backfired . any suggestions would be appreciated thx
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 23:42:10 1994
>From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Sparks!
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 21:28:09 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
I was on my way out on Friday. As usual the start motor doesn't
have much torque and was barely turning the engine over. I know I need to
rebuild the starter eventually. Anyway a spark catches my attention. There
was a spark jumping from my overdrive lever to the aluminum transmission hump.
I guess the gearbox isn't grounded well enough. This may explain the lack of
torque in my starter motor. I know that the engine is grounded well so the
spark surprised me.
There isn't a grounding strap between the starter and the frame, but
I think that I'm going to add one ASAP.
-Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 01:22:10 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Progress (lack of)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:30:54 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Just an update on my much maligned progress to date on the work on my
> Land Rover. Over the weekend, which I should point out ends on Monday
> for those of us that work for a living, Dixon,
Some of us were doing more important things while resting from
serving the people of Canada...
> I managed to get some things done.
This should be amusing... :-)
> I installed the batteries, found a better ground for the negative cable,
> and got it *started*. I could not resist taking it for a spin around
> the block. I also managed to take the roof off, BY MYSELF. Most of
> the aches and pains are gone.
Brilliant! But I note that you have not yet removed one nut that
brings you closer to the refurbishment programme. I guess I will
have to be my selfless soul and advise your sister on the value of
her sacrifice at letting you steal her parking spot in the
garage for the next six months... :-) Need I note that it runs
<ahem> and you fear getting it a little muddy at the Maple Syrup
Rally this coming Sunday? My 109 will be there... Even George may
be bringing up his 109 pick-up to bury in the mud. Wimp...
Remember, a total of some six hours got the rings and bearings
changed on my 109, you have to do the same. Springs? pshaw, a
tykes chore... These private sector folks... <sigh>
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. I like how messages are getting grunged and concatenated
together somewhere along the route...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 01:22:03 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Transmission
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:41:12 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@ACC.ROANOKE.EDU> writes:
> Hello everyone! This is the first time I have sent out anything since being
> the mail list so bear with me please. My name is Stuart Moore and I live in
> Salem Virginia.
Hmmm, ROAV territory. Guess I can't poach you for OVLR... :-)
> of you know of the location of a good tranny which could be bought cheaply.
> would even put in the extra bucks for one with an overdrive to increase its
> gearing on the highway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Without the
> tranny my restoration will never get off the ground. Thanks.
Gearboxes can be found up here fairly cheaply. Getting it to you
is a bit more expensive. If you *really* need one, here is one
from the last OVLR newsletter:
Series IIA Transmission, Suffix "D" with transfer case.
Transmission slips out of 2nd and 3rd gears. $150. Call Marlene
Manning (705) 385-1085
The alternative it to take yours apart and fix it. Off hand I am
not sure what this will cost, but the oil being dumped can be fixed
with either new seals or a little welding. The damaged gears can
be addressed with new ones.
An overdrive? You chances of finding one used are slim at best.
Your better course of action, if you really desire one is to buy a
new one from the UK.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 00:38:25 1994
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 22:24:08 PDT
From: Vance Chin <vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu>
To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Subject: Re: Sparks!
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Status: RO
I was talking to Scotty a couple of weeks ago and he showed
me some things to do on mine. One was to put the ground wire
between the right hand transmission mount and the transmission
itself. This he said was better because it was out of the way
and it does not physically move the braid as much reducing brakage.
Vance Chin
Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine
and Brakes :-(
and clutch :-(
and diff :-(
and axle hubs :-(
and Park Brake :-(
New Battery shelf :-)
vance@xnet.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 02:12:17 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Junked messages (was: Re: Progress (lack of))
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 94 00:30:54 PDT."
<8Xcckc8w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 23:55:01 PDT
Status: RO
In message <8Xcckc8w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> you write:
> PS. I like how messages are getting grunged and concatenated
> together somewhere along the route...
Somewhere after stratus.com. Everything arrives intact over here...
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 04:34:41 1994 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:24:34 BST Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <ia2Bkc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 5, 94 8:19 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Robin asks: > Can you fit an overdrive to a forward control ( with the factory engine > and tranny etc) I'd guess the RR o/d would fit, but I've never seen it done. Perhaps ther's not enough room in the tunnel. > Can you fit the wheels and rims from a 1 ton 109" onto a lightweight? yes > I know it will decrease the turning circle [D! Yes you can, you can also fit 101FC rims but get the five stud not six stud wheels !!!! Running 750's on wider rims over geared my lightweight by around 10%. It's common to remove the steering limiters and let the tyres hit the frame on lock, to get minimum turning circle off-road. The 750's give an inch more diff clearance than 205's and 1.5 inches more that 600's. Well worth it. BTW, for those still interested in such things the grease nipples on Rangey props are 1/4 UNF. There is no nipple fitted to the front because overfilling can restict movement of the sliding sleeve, thereby overstressing the transfer box when the front axle is pushed back in normal usage. You drop the prop, compress fully and then fill with grease, removing the spare nipple and refitting the blanking plug afterwards. The rear is fitted with a nipple as normal, compression of the rear prop being less likely during forward motion. -- Best Regards, Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 06:36:57 1994 Subject: Re: New York Auto Show To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:37:33 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9403027653.AA765328569@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> from "llevitt@idcresearch.com" at Apr 2, 94 03:16:09 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Status: RO llevitt@idcresearch.com writes: > [...] > Each dealer now has one to show, none to go. Inventory is expected in > May. LR also showed a new Range Rover with an updated dash including > twin airbags. I believe that this is the early 1995 model, replacing > an abbreviated 1994 run. For those of you that have to know -- > $53,000! What is the current exchange rate - a Vogue SE is 37,100 sterling here :-) -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:12:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sparks! From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 10:25:45 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > I was on my way out on Friday. As usual the start motor doesn't > have much torque and was barely turning the engine over. I know I need to > rebuild the starter eventually. Anyway a spark catches my attention. There > was a spark jumping from my overdrive lever to the aluminum transmission hump > I guess the gearbox isn't grounded well enough. This may explain the lack of > torque in my starter motor. I know that the engine is grounded well so the > spark surprised me. > There isn't a grounding strap between the starter and the frame, but > I think that I'm going to add one ASAP. > I have found, over the course of owning two Land Rovers, that even if the ground to the engine looks good, it probabally isn't. I have found that a good ground makes the starter really spin. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:31:06 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 6 Apr 94 16:09:38 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Content-Type: Text Status: RO Nigel, Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether or not you have the wing off. Be sure to note the position of the actuating rod in between the two locknuts (i.e., the number of threads the rod protrudes past the outer locknut) and return the rod to that position after reassembly. If the hydraulic pipe fitting comes undone from the master cylinder but the pipe turns with it, squirt some WD-40 on it and work it gently back and forth while tapping on the pipe at the same time. This should break it free. Otherwise, the rebuild is pretty straight-forward. Have fun. Oh, I'm now on the internet. Thanks to all who guided me through. ****************************************************************************** Ben, You ASOLUTELY MUST have a grounding strap from the engine to the frame. Buy a braided strap at your local auto parts store and put one end under the lower nut holding the starter on and the other to a bolt on the frame. Be sure both contact areas are clean and dry (you may need to scrape the paint off the frame by the bolt hole you have chosen). A can of brake parts cleaner does a great job and leaves no residue. Once assembled you can spray paint over it to prevent corrosion in the future. I'm amazed your Rover starts at all. I had starting problems with both my 88 and 109 when I first bought them and both were due to loose grounding straps. A few weeks after fixing them I no longer looked like Arnold Schwarzennager. Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank. ****************************************************************************** Stuart, Since you'll probably have a lot of time on your hands this summer you really ought to try the rebuild yourself. The first tranny I rebuilt was a Rover box and it took me 6 weeks working nights and weekends with only a Haynes manual and lots of phone calls to ABP and RN. If I had known that my transfer box was an early suffix A attached to a later main box, I could have shaved two weeks off that time as I ordered some incorrect parts. Working days you should better that time easily. If you separate the transfer from the main box with everything in the vehicle, then remove the main box, you won't need a hoist to lift out the tranny (I did it, and I'm built like Pee Wee Herman). The biggest hassle is removing the seat base. Follow the manual step by step and you'll be fine. You will need a 19/32 socket, and open end wrench for several BS nuts and a heavy duty pair of snap ring pliers if you dissasemble the transfer, but other than that nothing out of the ordinary is needed. Believe me, it's not brain surgery. The problem with the oil dumping out is probably a bad output seal and/or transfer bottom cover gasket. Rebuilding the box yourself will probably be more expensive than buying used but far cheaper than a reconditioned box. And you'll know the condition of the box you're using. Used boxes are pulled from the vehicle for a number of reasons, and one of them might be that the box was bad. Feel free to call me if you have any questions. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:30:57 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 6 Apr 94 16:21:37 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dale, How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on how to do it. When you update your Rover to an alternator, use a Lucas 18ACR. It puts out 10 more amps than the 16 on paper, but in use is far more powerful and will charge at lower idle speeds. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 12:17:16 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:03:53 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Status: RO >How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on >how to do it. I found getting the hard top off my 88 without assistance wasn't that big a deal.... However, I did require help putting it back on. -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:39:35 1994
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 13:38:31 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Sparks and more
Status: RO
Ben Smith writes:
> Anyway a spark catches my attention...I guess the gearbox isn't grounded
>well enough.
Like money, gems or real estate, I don't think that you can ever have too
much grounding! My '72 88 used to do unusual things...like the headlights
would dim when I honked the horn. The Prince of Darkness was at work!
Anyway, over the years, I have added several supplememtal grounds to the
battery, in addition to the woven braid welded to the frame. (Incidentally,
my 88 does have a ground strap right at the starter.) One bit of 4 guage
welding cable goes from the battery to the block; another 10 ga wire goes
to the radiator support (for the lights) and another to the air horns.
Still another goes to the dashboard to keep Sir Lucas' minions in line there.
Problems still crop up from time to time...right now when I flip the high
beams, the headlights go out for a second or two, as if the voltage is
rearin' back for a running start to the front end! And the turn indicators
(but not the turn signals themselves, which funtion normally) come on in
the rain.
Kenton Hoover writes about "Doormobiles". These are 'Dormobiles' from the
Latin/French "dormir", to sleep, as in dormitory or dormer roof, which the
pop-top resembles when up. They were originally developed by Martin Walter
Ltd. (in Folkestone, Kent) probably around 1963 or '64. These are the
rarest of the rare over here...by best guestimates, there are probably only
20 or so in the US and Canada. All the models that I have seen have been 6
cyl '67's. There are apparently two versions: one has a small wardrobe/
closet while the other has a gas-powered refrigerator in addition to the
LNG cooker.
Does anyone know of a replacement for the Dormobile fabric top? The top on
one of our club member's vehicles has dozens of small holes/tears. With
all the bows, it would be tough to duplicate. Another local has built a
form to replicate the plastic top vent, so if you know of someone who needs
a replacement, he can mold some up out of fiberglass.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:57:53 1994
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 11:44:12 PDT
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, @Sun.COM:CERRIA@MON1
Subject: Re: Help
Status: RO
Welcome!
To get put on the alias send a request to:
land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com
Regards Bill G.
,------,-------,
| | |
|---{%%%%%%}---|
@==============@
|(@) [####] (@)|
| o [####] o |
================
{%} {%}
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
|----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
<| ___\ || | ____ | <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
\___/ \___/
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 14:18:52 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 14:57:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark <mar2@cnj.digex.net> Subject: 109 in mid-atlantic states To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark <mar2@cnj.digex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am looking for a restorable 109. I am willing to pay the fair market value based on the vehicles condition. Voice 908-8745686 Thanks, Mark
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:41:41 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 14:15:34 EST From: "LTC ANTHONY CERRI, TRADOC IG I" <CERRIA@MON1> Subject: Help To: <land-rover-owner@stratus.com> Status: RO Trying to get on your mailing list. Can you help?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:20:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 16:14:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > Dale, > > How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on > how to do it. > With great difficulty. Undo all the bolts that you need to. Back your Land Rover into a snowbank and lower the tailgate. Crouch in the box, and lift the roof off like a turtle. Hope that the snowbank is firm enough. What I should have done is what i did the previous year. Turn it upside down and slide it down the other side of the bank. I decided to walk it off, falling through the snowbank, losing my balance, and giving myself a hernia in the process. Do you really want to see a video of this. Last years British Invasion video was embarassing enough. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:19:25 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 16:36:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > > Some of us were doing more important things while resting from > serving the people of Canada... > Ugh, I think that there is a transposition error in the above statement. Shouldn't that read " Some of us were doing more important things from resting while serving the people of Canada..." > Brilliant! But I note that you have not yet removed one nut that > brings you closer to the refurbishment programme. I guess I will > have to be my selfless soul and advise your sister on the value of > her sacrifice at letting you steal her parking spot in the > garage for the next six months... :-) Need I note that it runs > <ahem> and you fear getting it a little muddy at the Maple Syrup > Rally this coming Sunday? My 109 will be there... Even George may > be bringing up his 109 pick-up to bury in the mud. Wimp... > > Remember, a total of some six hours got the rings and bearings > changed on my 109, you have to do the same. Springs? pshaw, a > tykes chore... These private sector folks... <sigh> > > Rgds, > > Dixon > Unfortunately, I have to work Saturday, so Sunday is the only full day I can work on the Land Rover. BTW, my sister is already on to me. Goodbye covered garage. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:38:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 17:29:53 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well finally my APRIL editon of land Rover Owner arrived today. Mr Rooth what is the day count on that now? Was interested to see that LRO has finnaly put out an index system. I wonder if it is available on computer disk ? Did you see all the posters that are available in repro form now? Five pounds a pop seems steep if you want all forty of them. i wonder if they'll give a discount on that? Bloody well should do. Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER" emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product" identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll get to the bottom of this one soon. Loved the article on the Mount washington climb by the Rovers North people. Nice day trip out eh! Guess they'll be going for the Pole next?! What do you say folks? Well I've finished the Shorland and am taking it out tonight [D, see what the heathens (aircraft lovers) say about it. Thats it for the minute, more whne I've fully scanned Lro on the can tommorrow, only place in the house I can get some piece and quite. Sometimes I really wonder.........! Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 16:54:38 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sparks!
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 94 08:46:18 PDT."
<199404061344.IAA10991@mail.utexas.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 94 14:44:07 PDT
Status: RO
Greg Hiner wrote:
> For what its worth I have a grounding strap that goes from one of the
> starter motor bolts to the frame. That is the original way it was grounded
> I guess. Also I have heard that adding a second strap from the battery to
> one of the bolts on the engine oil filler cover is a good idea. I seem to
> remember on my gearbox a ground cable for the reverse light. This is for a
> 70 IIa.
Currently the engine is grounded to the frame by a nice thick cable that
is attached to the horn mounting plate. The battery ground is attached to the
same point.
Bill Malloney wrote:
>I'm amazed your Rover starts at all. I had starting problems with both my 88
>and 109 when I first bought them and both were due to loose grounding straps.
>A few weeks after fixing them I no longer looked like Arnold Schwarzennager.
>Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank.
Actually, my rover starts about 75% of the time (it needs fairly
few rotations to catch). But is less likely to start when warm than cold.
I've learned to park on the uphill side of parking lots so that roll starting
isn't too difficult. Or I make sure to bring a few friends.
As for the hand crank, I haven't used it since the RN rally 2 years
ago. (the first time I thought I had fixed the starter motor and found out,
much to my chagrin (sp?), that I hadn't. Soon after this I mounted a winch
which blocked the hand crank hole. I'm planning of cutting the crank in two
and welding a universal in so that I can pass the crank under the bumper.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 18:16:07 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: crank w/ u joint...
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 1994 18:59:05 EDT."
<199404062259.SAA24199@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 16:06:33 -0700
From: Benjamin Allan Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
In message <199404062259.SAA24199@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>you write:
>
> >Soon after this I mounted a winch
> >which blocked the hand crank hole. I'm planning of cutting the crank in two
> >and welding a universal in so that I can pass the crank under the bumper.
>
> This sounds evil.
The plan is to buy some cheap 1/2" drive short extender and cut that in
two. Then I'd weld the pieces onto the halfs of the crank. This way I could
use the universal from my tool box to try to crank from under the bumper. But
If I ever remove the winch, the two pieces of the crank would still attach to
each other in a straight line so there is no loss of function.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 19:04:03 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 19:56:00 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >Nigel, >Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just >remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access >the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will >need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether or >not you have the wing off. Be sure to note the position of the actuating rod >in between the two locknuts (i.e., the number of threads the rod protrudes >past the outer locknut) and return the rod to that position after reassembly. >If the hydraulic pipe fitting comes undone from the master cylinder but the >pipe turns with it, squirt some WD-40 on it and work it gently back and forth >while tapping on the pipe at the same time. This should break it free. >Otherwise, the rebuild is pretty straight-forward. Bill- Just to get something straight here.....Nigel IS my '60 SII 88 (I don't think he can read, but I am certain he listens to everything I say, and knows all of the things I think......a few months back my dips went out only five minutes after muttering the phrase "prince of darkness".....) Nice to know I need not remove the entire wing. (Actually, if you are crafty with time-space relationships, you need not remove anything at all to remove BOTH master cylinders, but you do have to bend your hoses and contort your body into positions it has never seen before.) As for pipe connections and avoiding problems with them, a trick I learned from a guy who made a living working on brakes is to *tighten* a pipe (or bleed screw) connection EVER SO SLIGHTLY before trying to loosen it-this not only loosens the threads, but also usually loosens the pipe itself from the threaded pipe fitting. The clutch master rebuild should certainly be straight-forward (it's getting the big end bolt off of a CB brake master without a vise, and bleeding a brake master sans EZ-bleed that I don't enjoy). guess my saturday morining is all cut out for me (but the time has come to get the manure out of the barn-a whole winter's worth.....yummmm!-time to fire up that tractor and lube the spreader.......). rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:31:47 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:17:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well girls, just got back from the model club meeting, there was no ad hoc competetion tonight, just a works in progress table. put the vehicle on the table anyway and got a lot of favourable compliments about thr job done. everyone loved the coil of barbed wire on the hood. The vehicle is painted up in Royal Ulster Constabluary colours. What they did not know about the barbed wire is that it was a Hollywood job. What happened was that I had to fill in the spare carrier mount on the hood, the spare is carried on the rear deck. Well when i came to spraying the model It seems that the no shrink putty had shrunk. So i was left with a circle mark on the hood. I had some photo etched barbed wire around so I rolled it up and planted it on the hood and nicely covered up that gaff! The boys were impressed on the whole, probaly the best reaction I have had to a Land Rover in a long time. I guess it is cos it is painted blue! Thanks go to Dixon for keeping our system open longer at night, I'm writing this at 00:26 hrs, he used to lock it all up at 00:01. Now us nighthawks can use the system when we need it. Thanks mate. By the way who ever it was who answered about the 101 Fc rims on the lightweight please note, I was asking about the 1 ton 109", not the military vehicle. Thanks for your comments though folks. I appreciate them. By the way, only one anwer on my question on the large plastic badges on series two lightweights. Dissapointing. See ya all real soon ya' hear! Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:23 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:42:52 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> Nigel,
>
> Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just
> remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access
> the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will
> need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether o
> not you have the wing off.
These are captive nuts. Just undo the six bolts and the assembly
will be loose. Unless the wing comes off, you will not get it out.
You may be able to get the master out, but it will be very painful.
> Ben,
>
> You ASOLUTELY MUST have a grounding strap from the engine to the frame. Buy
> braided strap at your local auto parts store and put one end under the lower
> nut holding the starter on and the other to a bolt on the frame.
This is the best location, but I ran the 109 with it grounded from
the battery box to the nut holding the breather onto the block for
a year. Not the best spot as the lower starter bolt to the frame
is the best (there is even a tab on the frame to take this ground
cable)
> Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank.
Only if you have a Koneig PTO winch in the front as I and several
other people in OVLR have.. :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:11 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Progress (lack of)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:50:01 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Unfortunately, I have to work Saturday, so Sunday is the only full day I
> can work on the Land Rover. BTW, my sister is already on to me. Goodbye
> covered garage.
In other words, you are asking for a flying party of OVLR types to
swoop down upon your 88 while it is in the garage and place it in a
state where it will not move untiol you have put it back together
again. BTW, while waiting for you the other night I found your
raised air intake system, your overdrive, springs, new door
bottoms... Need I go on... <grin> You're very lucky thus far...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 03:20:42 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 09:13:18 +0100
To: lro@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 09:14:29 GMT
Subject: Re:
Priority: normal
Status: RO
>
> Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER"
> emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they
> playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product"
> identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would
> imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll
> get to the bottom of this one soon.
>
I was taliking to a mechanic about this, we reckon that Defender and Discovery are
two types of *Land Rover*, whilst the Range Rover & the soon-to-be-announced ?Road
Rover? are a different range of vehicle (no pun intended!) (like there are the Rover 400, 600
& 800 models, plus the Metro & Tiumph cars as well).
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 09:30:04 1994
Subject: Re: Defender, Discovery, etc.
To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Ian Stuart )
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 14:18:29 +0100 (BST)
From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list)
In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.940407091429.448@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk> from "Ian Stuart," at Apr 7, 94 09:14:29 am
Organization: Apricot Computers Limited
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2625
Status: RO
Ian Stuart, writes:
>
> >
> > Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER"
> > emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they
> > playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product"
> > identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would
> > imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll
> > get to the bottom of this one soon.
> >
> I was taliking to a mechanic about this, we reckon that Defender and Discovery are
> two types of *Land Rover*, whilst the Range Rover & the soon-to-be-announced ?Road
> Rover? are a different range of vehicle (no pun intended!) (like there are the Rover 400, 600
> & 800 models, plus the Metro & Tiumph cars as well).
As I understand it, the aim is for Land Rover to be regarded as a
Manufacturer, just like Rover, Ford, Jaguar, etc. The first problem
was to disassociate the Land Rover name from the traditional Land
Rover image. To do this 2 things happened -
1. Land Rover 90, 110 etc became Defenders
2. Range Rover was launched in the USA as Range Rover with Range Rover
North America as the organisation behind them.
Some time goes by ...... I don't remember the exact sequence, but it
goes something like this -
a. The LAND ROVER Discovery appeared
b. The vehicles started being actively marketted as:-
Land Rover Defender
Land Rover Discovery
Land Rover Range Rover
About this time their was lots of speculation about the Range
Rover being renamed Land Rover D......., but it never happened.
c. Range Rover started to appear with those nice little green oval
badges front and back.
d. Range Rover North America became Land Rover North America (I believe)
If you now look at a 1995 model year Range Rover it no longer says
Range Rover in the middle of the steering wheel (or anywhere else
inside that I have spotted so far), but Land Rover. While the 1995
model year Discovery's now have Land Rover in big letters across the
bonnet.
I don't expect Range Rover bonnets to appear with Land Rover
across them, but do expect the new vehicle to have LAND ROVER very
prominantly in view (only a guess, but lets wait and see) - though I
guess it might say BMW instead :-) or should that be :-(
--
_ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171
' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123
/--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park
/ \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk
Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:29:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover books From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:10:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages > with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors > even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle! > However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David > Hardcastle, and both for around $36. > "The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE. > "Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE. > I have an older catalogue (Fall 1993) that lists several Land rover books. They list the Brookland series plus about ten others. One example is "Land Rover: The Unbeatable 4X4" by K. Slavin for 34.95 U.S. They are kind of expensive. They also list a "Land Rover 2/2a/3 Shop Manual" that "includes gas and diesel models 1959-83,252 pages" order #133855A for $21.95 U.S. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:29:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover books From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:10:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages > with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors > even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle! > However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David > Hardcastle, and both for around $36. > "The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE. > "Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE. > I have an older catalogue (Fall 1993) that lists several Land rover books. They list the Brookland series plus about ten others. One example is "Land Rover: The Unbeatable 4X4" by K. Slavin for 34.95 U.S. They are kind of expensive. They also list a "Land Rover 2/2a/3 Shop Manual" that "includes gas and diesel models 1959-83,252 pages" order #133855A for $21.95 U.S. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 10:02:39 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 14:41:41 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Miscellaneous Content-Type: Text Status: RO Wow!!! It's only my second day on internet, and I've already gotten over 20 messages! It's enough to warm the swivel balls of any Land Rover Owner. ****************************************************************************** Dixon, You are right of course about the clutch master cylinder frame having captive nuts. I sometimes forget whether my nuts are loose or being held captive. ****************************************************************************** Russel, Thanks for setting me straight. Please apologize to Nigel for me. ****************************************************************************** Dale, Thanks for the step by step instructions on the one man removal of a hard top. My truss is on order and should arrive next week. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:09:04 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 09:01:14 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Status: RO In message <668Dkc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> writes: > Only if you have a Koneig PTO winch in the front as I and several > other people in OVLR have.. :-) > > Rgds, > > Dixon Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one??? Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Hmmm my hose clamps & flasher unit are made in Canada too. My car must have spend a fair amount of time there before it immigrated to the US. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 12:38:22 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 17:31:10 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, You write: > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 12:38:22 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 17:31:10 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, You write: > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 13:57:55 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 11:49:10 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Vancouver Wench Status: RO In message <199404071729.NAA02141@transfer.stratus.com> wmalon writes: > TeriAnn, > > You write: > > > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. > > Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it > possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and > preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? > > > Bill Maloney > IIA 88 & 109 Wagon > W-201 428-3491 > H-201 835-1796 > wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com > AT&T Rm. CC24 > 4 Woodhollow Rd. > Parsippany, NJ 07054 > Humph! Your on thin ice partner TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:07:03 1994
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:55:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: lro@stratus.com, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Subject: Re: Rover books
In-Reply-To: <6Fyekc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Status: RO
Hi all,
I was just reading Dale Desprey's note about the Classic Motorbooks.
So I called their 800 number, cause I was interrested in the "Shop Manual"
So here's the latest poop.
They are out of copies right now but they will be getting in some new
copies the first or second week of May, and the correct Order Number is
#113855A. The price is now $24.95 US plus $4.50 shipping. There is no
tax here in Pa. but I don't know about elsewhere.
Their address is: Classic Motorbooks
PO Box 1
Osceola, Wisconsin--54020
I said, Osceola, that's the same as florida isn't it?
She didn't think it was funny.
Cheers [it's spring]
Jon
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
"YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium
++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:15:46 1994
From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 15:06:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: My bad ASCII art
To: lro@stratus.com
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
X-Vms-To: LANDROVER
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
|------------------____
| ____________ ______ \
| | | | \ \
| | | | \ \ ______
| |__________| |________| |__(______)_
| ______ | | ______ |
|_ / \ | ' | / \ |_
-_/ O O \_|________|__/ O O \|_|
O O O O
O O O O
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 16:09:43 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:00:36 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one???
I'll check, but I do know it was made in the USA and was
discontinued in 1972. They kind of laughed at us last summer when
we phoned them for some new gears. Not that it mattered, we just
went and had a friend make us some new gears for it. There are at
least three of these winches in the club. Big brutes and pretty
good and getting others out of the muck.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:48:32 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 20:12:27 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, Sorry, I couldn't resist. I guess I just come from a long line of low lifes. I see you have a TR3. One of my neighbors has one in his garage in nice shape but I haven't been able to motivate him to get it back on the road. The body style has really nice lines. Those that I've seen on ther road sound reeeeel good. I love that exhaust tone. He talked to me about selling it but I have 2 too many projects now as it is. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 19:32:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sparks! From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:46:01 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes: > Actually, my rover starts about 75% of the time (it needs fairly > few rotations to catch). But is less likely to start when warm than cold. > I've learned to park on the uphill side of parking lots so that roll starting > isn't too difficult. Or I make sure to bring a few friends. You might check the springs and brushes. If a spring is rotted or brush overly worn, it can cause intermitant problems. If this is the case, it can only get worse. On a positive note, it is fairly easy to fix. You can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start, gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). One day I should write detailed instructions on how to remove a starter motor, tools needed, tricks and traps. It is the one thing that I seem to have done alot. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 16:42:31 1994
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 16:55:02 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Cranks
Status: RO
Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but
adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it
has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I
was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a
dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you
certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the
jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity.
Speaking of cranks (smooth segue, eh?) several years ago, I found a
*complete* Aerowinch capstan - took it off a vehicle from Afghanistan. As
it takes its power from the starting dog, a shorter starting crank was
necessary...and Craddock's advertised one for <5#. Sent my monies (credit
card) off...and waited...and waited. Months later (after I made one
myself) a package from Craddock's arrives. 25#(!) + VAT (!!) + postage +
handling fees (!!!) = 35# and a few pence...for a bloody crank! Phone
calls were of little help...the bloke on the other end quoted the party
line about a "special back order direct from Land Rover" and "restocking
fees" if I returned it. Now I have two cranks, plus an attitude! Anyone
want to buy a *genuine* short starting handle?
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 17:05:38 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 17:55:33 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Cranks Status: RO >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. > how about incorporating a one-way ratchet to obviate the dangers of backfiring (you know, when i first had my rover, i crank started it a lot.. [low compression :]... and never even considered the possibility of a backfire... i am still amazed/thankful i never broke a bone. actually, it was the mechanic type at cheshire auto in new hampshire who clued me in some time later... ) -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 17:57:12 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Cranks
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 17:55:33 PDT."
<9404072155.AA05053@MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 15:49:09 PDT
Status: RO
Jory Bell wrote:
> Sandy Grice wrote:
> >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but
> >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it
> >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I
> >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a
> >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you
> >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the
> >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity.
In addition ot the universal I was going to weld a small plate, with
a hole in it for the crank to pass though, to the bottom of the bumper.
With the degrees of freedom restricted like this I don't see how it is more
dangerous than the standard crank. When the engine backfires the crank should
spin in place until it is kicked out.
> how about incorporating a one-way ratchet to obviate the dangers of
> backfiring
That would be a really go idea.
What at first seemed to be a cool, easy project is looking like it
might not be worth the effort/danger. Back to the drawing boards.....
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 19:34:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:56:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, I never thought I would see a Land Rover owner apologise, At least I know its not possible around here anyway! Points go to Mr Malloney (sp) on his apology to Terri Ann. Well done. Go figure this one, I ordered my copy of Land Rovers in military service by Bob Morrison from land Rover Owner magazine and today it arrived in the mail. the money order and letter went out by first class air mail on the 22nd of March! How come that magazine takes so long? Dont any of you others out there get this magazine. Does it not gip you that you pay all this money for an airmailed subscription and get shank's pony delivery? Back to the book, here is a review. this book is a brookland reprint of a number of Bob Morrison's military cxolumn from Land Rover Owner magazine. As it is a Brooklands reprint that means that the aricles are in black and white. beleive me detail is lost from the original pictures by quite a bit. If you like the military variants of the Land Rover and you do not have all the LRO'S since they began then this would be of interest to you. Or by the same token you are a model maker who does not have access to LRO then again this will give you a good spread of subjects to get on with. There are sixteen new half page size colour pictures inside as a bonus. Also on the outside you get a total of seven new pictures (1front 6 back) (colour) for extra detail. So I come down to the punch line, value for money or VFM. If you paid full whack from the LRO bookshop at 9.95 pounds plus a couple of pounds for shipping and you have all the LRO's then you got stuffed mate! If on the other hand you this book as the bonus for renewing yopur subscription then I think it is ok, especially when you read that little book "know your Land Rover". If you got it for 8 pounds from the March issue of LRO including postage then you got reasonable VFM as an extra reference book. By the way, Bob Morrison will be getting a copy of this reveiw so please dont feel I'm telling stories out of class. We are friends aswell. I would have to say that I have always had a problem with the paper quality and the reprod uction quality of the brooklands books. Ithink that their pictures could be a little less grainy and lighter if they really tried. Comments please? Oh by the way, if you get a chance to buy Bob's book British Land Rovers in the Gulf that is a great book with alot of excellent pictures that have not been seen in LRO itself. There is a great forward to the history of the region (the Gulf) and to the military Land Rover aswell. In addition there is a guide to making model Land Rovers and what kits to use. This one is worth the full list price to see some of the neat military variants and equipment modifications. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 18:48:11 1994 From: K Schmidt <s20845@hp.rmc.ca> Subject: cranks + roofs To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 19:39:21 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO I'm relatively new on the mailing list, I'm in Kingston, Ontario at RMC (Royal Militaty College of Can.) So I don't get to get out and enjoy my Land Rover 62 88' (IIa) as often as I would like to. I have found that I've spent as many hours fixing my LR as I have driving it since I bought it a year ago. This leads me to a couple of thigs that have been discussed... >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. > >(Sandy Grice) As far as worrying about the starting handle kicking back, there is one way to prevent this... you can practice! I'm not saying that you should do this for fun but.. last year one of the many things that broke was my starter. I ended up "practicing" shall we say with the crank.Yes, at first it did kick back on occasion, but after about a week of starting it _four_ <no joke> times a day (people would come out to watch and laugh), you get a good idea of how much gas, etc. to give so that it starts with only _one_ quick turn. It never really kicked back for the remaining three weeks that I continued to drive before getting my starter back in! Next is the procedure to getting you roof off alone, for some strange reason I've almost never had anyone help me take the roof off (I've had help putting it on though) All that you need to do is undo all the bolts, and place a suitable sized blanket on the ground behind the LR. Next, climb into the bed and slide the roof toward the rear. As you get the roof nearly half way off, grab the leading edge of the roof and pull down while continuing to push to the rear. The roof should easily slide of the back and end up in an upright position resting on the rear windows. Does that make sense? Other things that I've done for my LR is I sewed a form fitted cover out of canvas (only cost me $125CAN. for the material) It will last forever! and I've made a soft top with hoops as well. Is anyone interested in one or how to go about making these? I'll post info if anyone is interested. Happy Rovering to all!! Kurt s20845@sv1.rmc.ca
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 05:43:54 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Tools
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 20:20:43 PDT."
<9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc>
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 03:28:07 PDT
Status: RO
In message <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> you write:
> Ok all you mechs answer this question: What is the size difference
> if any between the AF (across flats and the standard American SAE
> sockets and wrenches? I always thought that AF was the SAE.
> Plus what is the difference between Whitworth and British Standard?
British Standard and Whitworth are different nomenclatures for
tools that fit the same sized nuts/bolts. I believe that one refers to the
diameter of the bolt and the other refers to the size of the head/nut for that
bolt. Why the Brits had two different naming conventions is beyond me.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 20:10:41 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sparks!
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 15:46:01 PDT."
<eZDFkc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 17:58:54 PDT
Status: RO
Dale Desprey wrote:
> You might check the springs and brushes. If a spring is rotted or brush
> overly worn, it can cause intermitant problems. If this is the case, it
> can only get worse. On a positive note, it is fairly easy to fix. You
> can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The
> trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start,
> gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter
> motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel).
I've found that all I need to do is remove the 3 nuts securing the
exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold (brasss ones) and move the pipe to
side. With the wheels turned to one extreme there is enough room for the
starter motor to go out the bottom. I wish there was a way to do it without
undoing the exhaust pipe nuts, but the starter motor is just a tad too long.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 21:59:24 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 20:20:43 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tools Status: RO Ok all you mechs answer this question: What is the size difference if any between the AF (across flats and the standard American SAE sockets and wrenches? I always thought that AF was the SAE. Plus what is the difference between Whitworth and British Standard? Only ask because I am reading Porter's book in detail and the three different types are mentioned. Some of the procedures I have read so far are a bit heavy on obvious things, like how to remove the bonnet removal and so far he is big on replacement rather than repair. Plus he says that the replacement of the bushings and shackles are ,"straightforward and inexspensive operation". Right! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 01:18:21 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 00:01:13 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one???
Koenig Iron Works of Houston Texas. Further checking has turned up
a couple more of them in the club, so my total in OVLR has gone
from three to six that I know of thus far.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 20:30:29 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 18:52:46 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Books Status: RO Robin, When I was in the Gulf I saw some amazing old Rovers that were everything to an SAS airfield defense 88 to 110 county and leased Discos plus many Lightweights that looked like they had plenty of miles on them. We made a run to Rhiyad (sp) and missed a Scud by 15 minutes. But we hit a traffic jam caused by the movement across the higway of an armored division that took several hours. Anyway it was in that traffic jam that a Brit Officer wanted to trade me his brand new 110 with OD/winch and GPS for a Hummer. The Rover had about 2,000 miles on it. All I had to trade was a Jeep Cherokee with the 6cyl 6 liter, it was a 1990. But if I would have had a Hummer it would have gone to the Brit in a heartbeat. I got the Haynes book by Lindsay Porter on restoration and such. It is hardback and not bad b ut a bit thin. Has no real electrical troubling shooting or any real helpful general maintenance stuff. But the sections on body and stuff along with the genral comments are I guess worth the price of admission. It is thinner than I thought. But a good refernece for getting your Rover in better condition cosmetically. But I may change my mind when I read the thing cover to cover. The one book I got that was pretty good, I thought, was the Brooklands reprint of the Practical Classics articles on the 58 Series I 88. Not bad. I like it because it covers that exact year Series I I have. Joy - Joy. But for the money it was pretty thin, about 70 some pages. But it should come in handy. I also got another copy of the Haynes repair book for the IIA and III. It was hardbound and is apparently no longer available in the US. I got mine from the mother country, last week. So that`s it for my book jazz. Roy - Rovers in teh Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 10:09:49 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Starter motor removal To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 9:59:39 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404080058.AA20895@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu" at Apr 7, 94 5:58 pm Status: RO Dale Desprey wrote: > ... You > can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The > trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start, > gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter > motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). Benjamin Smith said: > I've found that all I need to do is remove the 3 nuts securing the > exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold (brasss ones) and move the pipe to > side. With the wheels turned to one extreme there is enough room for the > starter motor to go out the bottom. I wish there was a way to do it without > undoing the exhaust pipe nuts, but the starter motor is just a tad too long. Ok, I give up. I used to think myself mechanically ept (opposite of inept), but for the life of me, I see no possible way to extract the starter on my 69 88" 2.25 petrol without detaching the exhaust downpipe from the exhaust manifold. Unfortunately in my case, the pipe and manifold are attached with a variety of nuts, bolts and many many years of rust welding everything together. It is hard to be sure, but I also suspect that one of the nuts is welded to the bolt that has replaced one stud... The manual does say to remove the exhaust pipe, but that is my problem. Dale, can you elaborate on the procedure to remove a starter *without* detaching the exhaust pipe from the manifold? I have tried every manipulation I can think of, and there just does not seem to be enough clearance to clear the bellhousing before hitting the exhaust pipe. I can see that if I *could* get it free, then I could drop it out the bottom easily.
>From close inspection, everything *looks* stock on my beast. The exhaust pipe drops almost perfectly straight down from the exhaust manifold before turning to the rear of the vehicle. There really doesn't seem to be anything nonstock about the exhaust pipe - it really does continue the line of the manifold outlet without any apparent rearward displacement that might restrict the clearance more than on a stock installation. If I can't pull the starter with the exhaust still in place, I will have to cut the exhaust pipe and pull the entire manifold set and exhaust pipe stub out the top, so I can work it over on the bench. It needs new studs anyhow, but strikes me as a lot more work than I care to go to right at the moment. Oh yes, I have tried simple leverage, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, Silikroil, a propane torch, a propane torch combined with each of the above individually and together, cursing, and prayer. No luck on any of the three studs/bolts/nuts holding the manifold and exhaust pipe together. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 10:38:59 1994 From: "Bryan White" <brywhite@quagmire.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:31:00 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Transfer case.. HELP! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO Yesterday I was at a British Motors dealership looking at a 1988 Range Rover. Being more familiar with the later models' full-time 4wd, I was concerned when the salesman shifted the 1988's 2wd/4wd transfer case while moving at 5 mph. As he attempted to engage the transfer case, he threw the shifter forward. His effort was followed by a clanking sound but it was not yet engaged. His second attempt caused the the transfer case to cry out again and this time all passengers were thrown forward with the vehicles new gear ratio. For a moment, the 4wd indicator light came on but unfortunately the transfercase was not yet securely engaged. Even more unfortunate was that this salesman was going to make a third attempt... We're still traveling at 5 mph... Then, with a mighty forward thrust on the shifter, the transfer case engaged, with a few concerning "thud" and "clank" type sounds. The salesman looked my way and explained the reason why you must shift at 5 mph. The way the salesman did this did not seem right but he was adamant that he knew what he was doing. What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop first? Please explain. Thanks! -- Bryan White Silicon Graphics, Inc. Site Technical Support brywhite@corp.sgi.com (415)390-4305
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 11:05:16 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 08:56:01 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Tools Status: RO In message <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> ROY CALDWELL writes: Question removed Sorry Roy I dnon't know the answer but I do seem to have a number od wrenches with AF behing the size. > Plus he says that the replacement of the bushings and > shackles are ,"straightforward and inexspensive operation". Right! I had to replace a broken rear shackle last year. It didn't seem all that bad to me. If I remember had to grind off a rusted bolt head & I used a come along to pull the shackle out. I cleaned up the holes put some dish soap on the new bushings & slid them in. New shackles, grade 8 bolts and lock nuts finished the job. Hmmm now that I think of it, since my Land Rover retired form being a farm work car a couple of years ago, she has gone through one rear shackle, one rear axle & diff, and she broke a front stub axle. Plus When I went in to get my tyres balanced the other month I was told that all my wheels are slightly bent. Some retirement. Last night I came across my first new 90 on the road. Very polite driver I must say. As soon as he/she (it was dark) recognized my 109, there was enthusiastic horn blowing, light flashing and waving. At least new Land Rover owners seem to have better manners than their Range Rover counterparts. > > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir? > TeriAnn - Rovers in the Redwood forrested mountains along the coast TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 11:15:25 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 12:08:19 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Providing you have a STOCK exhaust (which you do, we think) you can do the following: a) loosen the bolts holding your starter in and disconnect the wires. b) move the starter forward slightly until it clears the bell housing c) tilt it verticle (i believe the front part of the starter should now be pointed down, while the end towards the bell housing should be up. this operation may take two hands-one on front, and one pushing the back up. make sure you don't drop it on your face! d) should drop right out. e) installation is quite obviously the reverse. rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him.... too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for the farm rig......)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 12:20:13 1994 Subject: Re: Transfer case.. HELP! To: brywhite@quagmire.corp.sgi.com (Bryan White) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:42:01 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9404080831.ZM2503@quagmire.corp.sgi.com> from "Bryan White" at Apr 8, 94 08:31:00 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2640 Status: RO Bryan White writes: > > > > Yesterday I was at a British Motors dealership looking at a 1988 Range Rover. > > Being more familiar with the later models' full-time 4wd, I was concerned when > the salesman shifted the 1988's 2wd/4wd transfer case while moving at 5 mph. > As he attempted to engage the transfer case, he threw the shifter forward. His > effort was followed by a clanking sound but it was not yet engaged. His second > attempt caused the the transfer case to cry out again and this time all > passengers were thrown forward with the vehicles new gear ratio. For a > moment, the 4wd indicator light came on but unfortunately the transfercase was > not yet securely engaged. Even more unfortunate was that this salesman was > going to make a third attempt... We're still traveling at 5 mph... > > Then, with a mighty forward thrust on the shifter, the transfer case engaged, > with a few concerning "thud" and "clank" type sounds. The salesman looked my > way and explained the reason why you must shift at 5 mph. > > The way the salesman did this did not seem right but he was adamant that he > knew what he was doing. > > What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop > first? > > Please explain. > > Thanks! All Range Rovers have fulltime 4wd, so the salesman wasn't shifting from 2wd to 4wd. Question is was he attempting to enguage the diff lock (moving the H-N-L lever from side to side) or from low to high range (moving the H-N-L lever from L towards H) or from high to low (moving the H-N-L lever from H towards L)? Also presumably the vehicle was an automatic? If it was the first case (and this is the one that causes the bright amber light next to the radio to spring into life) then their should be no problem at any speed - though you shouldn't run on an ordinary road surface, etc with the diff lock enguaged unless you want to wind the transmission up on the corners. Going from low to high or high to low on the move is possible with a manual transmission (and quite common particulalry when towing something very heavy) it is best avoided with an automatic since you have no way of double de-clutching. > -- > Bryan White > Silicon Graphics, Inc. > Site Technical Support > brywhite@corp.sgi.com > (415)390-4305 > > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 12:34:32 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 10:25:31 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Status: RO In message <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > > rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him.... > too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for > the farm rig......) > > The Green Rover towed my manure spreader about once every two months for about 13 years when I sold the dairy herd and the spreader. She was never hurt by it. The manure gets thrown to the rear and sides. It dosn't throw in front of the auger. What she didn't like as much was the times when I couldn't get the spreader close enough to the manure and had to fill The Green Rover to the roof line with manure (Lets see the Range Rover peole do that!). Afterwards, I would park her up hill and hose her down. Come to think of it I probably washed the inside of the car more often than I washed the outside... But I thought Land Rovers were designed to be farm rigs??? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:03:29 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 8 Apr 94 17:46:07 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Books, Tools & Starters Content-Type: Text Status: RO ****************************************************************************** Robin,
>From what I understand about the shipping of LRO is that they drop ship all
the issues to one US postal location. From there they are sent via regular US mail. Apparently they are able to save quite a bit in doing this, but as we all know it really kills the delivery time. I suspect that LRO has the same arrangement with the Canadian postal service. I wonder if surface mail would be any faster? I agree, it really irks me, especially since I ordered a 2 year subscription back when the pound = $1.92 US and I was sure the exchange rate was going to increase. So much for my financial forcasting skills. ****************************************************************************** Roy, I believe that AF and Whitworth are the same, but you might try a second opinion. I read an article a while back regarding the history of Whitworth fasters. As I recall prior to WWII a British analyst by the name of Whitworth came up with the concept of a system of fasteners for military vehicles and hardware that differed from both Metric and SAE. The benefit of this system was that if an enemy army captured British equipment, they would find it difficult to maintain in terms of tool and hardware compatability. After the war they had all this surplus hardware that they couldn't unload in Europe, the US, or Asia. So it got dumped apon the British motor industry (it may have been a case of the lowest bidder). I don't recall where or when I read this, so please forgive me if it is inaccurate. ****************************************************************************** Mark, I have had studs break off of both my Rovers and know what you are going through. I think that your idea of removing the manifold complete is a good one. You may need to apply quite a bit of heat to the manifold to get the studs out. Even then they may snap off. At that point don't even bother trying to drill and extract them with an easy-out. Take it to your local machine shop and have 3 stainless helicoil inserts installed. Use stainless studs, nuts & washers if available. While you're at it separate the intake from the exhaust manifolds. Invest in a manifold bolts & nuts set from RN or ABP and use Permatex antisieze on all threads and on the full length of the studs fastening the intake to exhaust manifolds. Use a new gasket but don't tighten the 4 nuts holding the two manifolds together until you have fully tightened the nuts & bolts holding both manifolds to the head. If you do not follow this order you may wind up with intake or exhaust leaks because the manifolds are not allowed to bed into the intake-to-head gasket properly. It's easier to see than to explain. Oh, and while you're at it, it makes starter removal a snap! It may take more time than you wanted, but it may save you time and aggravation in the future or or in a situation where facilities or spares are not readily availble. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 14:30:17 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: videos From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 14:03:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Howdy you' all, was on the dog and bone across the pond with the folks at LRO book shop. Some interesting things emerged. 1. If enough people get together (would only be practical in local areas) and put in abulk order on the advertising prints they would be happy to give a"bulk discount" the same with the bookshop. For further details contact Ann Cornwall at the LRO bookshop, number in LRO. 2.Did you notice that two of the LRO bookshop videos are now available in NTSC (good for North America VCRS) format. Ann says that are priced at 19.99 pounds not at the 14.99 in the list, again discount depends on numbers, also time to get them depends on there being a few to be converted before she will get them done. Probably next paycheque(govt ui) I'll splurge and order one. Hope the transfer mast is real good! The videos available in NTSC are The Land Story by James Taylor and The Land Rover film libray. regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:26:02 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Starter removal To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 13:17:55 CDT In-Reply-To: <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Apr 8, 94 12:08 pm Status: RO Russell G. Dushin said: > > Providing you have a STOCK exhaust (which you do, we think) you can do the > following: > > a) loosen the bolts holding your starter in and disconnect the wires. > b) move the starter forward slightly until it clears the bell housing > ... Well, here is exactly where I hit the problem - as I move the starter directly forward, it hits the vertical portion of the exhaust downpipe well before the rear of the starter clears the bellhousing. I would guess that I need a good inch of additional clearance. Tilting the starter in a vertical plane as I move it forward does not gain enough clearance because the forward edge of the starter still hits the exhaust pipe before the back end clears the bellhousing. Sideways tilting is very restricted because of the adjacent block and frame. I would just bite the bullet and pull the whole doggone manifold/exhaust pipe if it weren't for the fact that some of you folks keep talking about how it is indeed possible to remove the starter without doing all that. I am more than willing to fiddle for a while, but I *am* restricted to Euclidean geometries! :) Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:26:10 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:18:45 -0700 To: "Bryan White" <brywhite@quagmire.corp.sgi.com>, lro@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Re: Transfer case.. HELP! Status: RO At 08:31 04/08/94 -0700, Bryan White wrote: >What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop >first? My old RR needed to be moving between 5 - 10 MPH for the transfer case to engauge properly. If you tried from a stop you had to force it, and it didn't always engauge without a great deal of 'knashing of teeth'. FWIW... | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================|
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:33:38 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:20:59 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Apparently-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Books, Tools & Starters Status: RO >I believe that AF and Whitworth are the same, but you might try a second >opinion. I read an article a while back regarding the history of Whitworth >fasters. As I recall prior to WWII a British analyst by the name of Whitworth >came up with the concept of a system of fasteners for military vehicles and >hardware that differed from both Metric and SAE. The benefit of this system >was that if an enemy army captured British equipment, they would find it >difficult to maintain in terms of tool and hardware compatability. After the >war they had all this surplus hardware that they couldn't unload in Europe, >the US, or Asia. So it got dumped apon the British motor industry (it may >have been a case of the lowest bidder). I don't recall where or when I read >this, so please forgive me if it is inaccurate. The story I read in Carroll Smith's 'Fasteners' book (a *very* good book, btw) was that Whitworth was a steam engineer in Victorian days. Boilers had a tendency to explode in those days so he came up with a new systems of threads whose significant contribution was not the different head sizing which we all curse but a new thread profile with circular arcs at the peaks and valleys which greatly reduced cracking and stress failures. Smith commented that the performance of the Whitworth thread has only been exceeded in recent years with new profiles (such as different rates for male and female so that they mate perfectly when in tension) developed for the aerospace industry. monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:50:32 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 14:44:37 EST Encoding: 1698 Text To: lro@stratus.com, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech Subject: LR Discovery Content-Length: 1669 Status: RO Last week I posted a message about seeing the new Discovery in the flesh at the NY Auto Show. This morning I played hooky and went off and drove one. What a sweetheart of a vehicle. No it doesn't have the charm of exposed plumbing or mechanical duct controls. I'm making this up, I never drove a *real* Land Rover :-) But I have driven Range Rovers and other 4x4s and the new Discovery is an absolute delight. Nicer to drive than the aforementioned RR. The Discovery I drove had the dual sunroofs, 4 channel abs, 16 inch tires, automatic tranny, dual airbags, dual heater controls (left/right), tilt wheel, etc. (Only the sunroofs are optional. The base price of $28,900 gets you a lot... I really want to talk about how it drove. It drove like a tall car, and for a 4x4 that is high praise...The suspension is compliant and supple, yet it feels as taut as my wife's Saab 9000. Not as taut as my Volvo Turbowagon, but that car has been modified...The Discovery does telegraph a lot of feeling through the suspension and wheel, but not uncomfortably so...While I did not get a chance to take it offroad, I did drive it on a twisty paved cowpath through some deep potholes and frost heaves...seems like it would be a blast in the woods. Good feedback through the steering wheel and some reasonable get up and go rom the V8. It did feel a little squirrelly on the highway at speed, but I expect that that is a function of the M&S 16 inch tires (I'm used to 205/50s). I'm looking forward to going back and driving a 5 speed... Discoverys are selling as fast as they come in. Seems like the LR dealers are holding to list but not going higher... Lee
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 15:03:14 1994
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Tools
To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 20:51:17 BST
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9404081028.AA27413@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu" at Apr 08, 94 3:28 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
Hi Folks,
here my two penn'orth
>
> In message <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> you write:
> > Ok all you mechs answer this question: What is the size difference
> > if any between the AF (across flats and the standard American SAE
> > sockets and wrenches? I always thought that AF was the SAE.
> > Plus what is the difference between Whitworth and British Standard?
>
> British Standard and Whitworth are different nomenclatures for
> tools that fit the same sized nuts/bolts. I believe that one refers to the
> diameter of the bolt and the other refers to the size of the head/nut for that
> bolt. Why the Brits had two different naming conventions is beyond me.
Well, we Brits used two different naming conventions for two different
fastner systems: Both are British Standard. BSW or British Standard
Whitworth (sometimes W/W) are best likened to pipe threads in their
function; ie they have good thread sealing properties, additionally as
a coarse thread they are good for soft materials. BSF or British
Standard Fine might be best understood by likening it to UNF in it's
applications. You can use a BSF spanner perfectly on a BSW head, but
the marked nominal sizes (eg 1/4, 5/16 etc) will be different -
spanners are usually marked up as such and the difference is as the
example. Horses for courses.
Hope this brings the things from beyond a little closer ;-)
--
Best Regards,
Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 15:12:11 1994
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: rocks and manure
To: twakeman@apple.com ("TeriAnn Wakeman" )
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:05:02 EDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9404081725.AA20670@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Apr 8, 94 10:25 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1]
Status: RO
>
> In message <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin"
> writes:
>
> >
> > rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him....
> > too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for
> > the farm rig......)
> >
> >
>
> The Green Rover towed my manure spreader about once every two months for about
> 13 years when I sold the dairy herd and the spreader. She was never hurt by it.
> The manure gets thrown to the rear and sides. It dosn't throw in front of the
> auger.
>
> What she didn't like as much was the times when I couldn't get the spreader
> close enough to the manure and had to fill The Green Rover to the roof line with
> manure (Lets see the Range Rover peole do that!). Afterwards, I would park her
> up hill and hose her down. Come to think of it I probably washed the inside of
> the car more often than I washed the outside...
>
> But I thought Land Rovers were designed to be farm rigs???
>
> TeriAnn
>
Our horses have this tendancy to shit rather large rocks along with their
normal excrement. Our spreader has a similar tendancy to launch these
rocks, most often while you are not looking, and usually in the forward
direction (this is not a flop spreader but is one with those evil looking
rotating spikes and trouls...things fly in EVERY direction). we have lost
many a tail lens and rear window while spreading, not to mention putting
dings and dents into the roof. just last year i was nearly removed from the
face of this earth by a rock that hit just behind the driver's seat. it
was twice the size of my fist, traveled at nearly the speed of sound, and
put a hefty dent into aluminium behind the seat. i'd prefer to spare nigel
of this task, and to leave it to the farm roach (which no longer has ANY
rear windows.....). I also spread with a helmet on!
rd/nigel/rover roach/'39 ford 9N/New Idea spreader ('50's vintage).
(makin' do with what we've got)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 15:20:33 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:11:46 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: hazards thingy Status: RO can anyoner tell me offhand where the hazards blinker bimetallic thingy resides. I'm poking around behind the instruments, but I can't seem to find it... as i understand it, this unit is separate from the one for the turn signals (which i can locate by the clicking) -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 15:20:47 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 16:13:58 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: hazards thingy (corrected) Status: RO can anyoner tell me offhand where the hazards blinker bimetallic thingy resides. I'm poking around behind the instruments, but I can't seem to find it... as i understand it, this unit is separate from the one for the turn signals (which i can locate by the clicking) -jory ooops, i forgot to mention: 1974 ser III 88"
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 15:33:48 1994
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 13:24:30 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: rocks and manure
Status: RO
>Our horses have this tendancy to shit rather large rocks...
> (rock) twice the size of my fist,
And your horse lived!!!!! Wow.
-Pete-
I'll never complain about my horses again.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 14:52:56 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 15:46:36 EST Encoding: 1443 Text To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Hand starting stories... Content-Length: 1412 Status: RO Gee, you guys really know how to have fun. Maybe I can get the hand crank as an option on the Discovery :-) Lee ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Hand starting stories... Author: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu at Internet Date: 4/6/94 12:59 AM Older Land Rovers all came with crank-handles for hand starting - I had some experience of using them 'in anger':( working for a now defunct (British) oil exploration outfit in North Africa. One time I got forced to use a LR which had (through lack of spares & age) had : no parking brake, dead starter solenoid, broken rear axle (so only worked when in 4WD - 2WD on front!), plus the gearbox would jump out of gear (at random)... and 1 spark plug was U/S ( so refused to idle) - I had to put up with this wreck daily for around a month, while waiting for spares - with no bailing wire of duct tape for 600 miles :( This meant : to park - stall engine, leave in gear, get out, put rocks under wheels to prevent rolling away - to start off again... put gears in neutral, wedge accelerator down with another rock, switch ignition on, get out, use cranking handle to start engine, remove handle, get back in and remove rock wedging accelerator whilst trying to stop the engine stalling again.... drive off... "Interesting" when done on a slope ending in a steep drop 5ft away!... :) -- Bob
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 17:47:33 1994 From: dmanouki@qntm.com Date: 8 Apr 94 12:40:00 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sorry to bother you all Ua-Content-Id: Sorry to bother P1-Recipient: lro@stratus.com P1-Message-Id: US*MCI*QUANTUM;c\ccmailgw\940408154039a Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Trace: US*MCI*QUANTUM;.arrival.940408124000-0700.deferred.940408124000-0700.action.Relayed P1-Content-Type: P2 Status: RO ............................... Sorry again, I have been put on this list without ever subscribing. How does one get off the list? How do I unsubscribe? Anyones help is appreciated, Dan M dmanouki@qntm.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 16:23:08 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:13:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: rocks and manure In-Reply-To: <9404082024.AA02929@gamma.tti.com> Status: RO Gee --What refreshing thoughts! Wow, Lookit the size'a thatun Conrad. I'll bet that took some snortin an sweatin Tra La---It's Spring---Tra La. Hope it dosen't rain this weekend, I wanna go ROVERING with the shelty dog. The Rover dosen't mind but the damn dog hates to get wet. Regards til Monday Jon
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 16:38:18 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 17:29:55 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: hazards thingy (corrected) Status: RO >Sure...it's a small rectangular metal box about 1" by 3/4" secured in a >bracket on the top (front) inner side of the dashboard...and I'm pretty >sure that the turn signal/hazard flasher unit are one and the same. The >six wire flashing switch on the center column merely makes all the >connections...the little box makes 'em all blink. thanks, i found it. the (genuine) replacement i had obtained is a round can, so my initial search for the blinker thingy (in which i shunned the use of a multimeter in favor of visual inspection) went nowhere. actually, there appear to be two different flasher units.. the one you described for the hazards, and one in the center behind the instrument panel for the turn signals. replacing the left one did the trick (i now have hazards again)... >The III's dashboard is >a pain, nay, a nightmare....pray you never have to replace the windscreen >pissers. By comaprison, reboring the cylinders or even (shudder) replacing >the glass channels is a breeze. last summer i replaced both windscreen squirters, and i've done the channels. after doing a frameup, the former was probably among the top 5 annoying jobs ;) -jory bell
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 17:58:10 1994
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 15:49:33 PDT
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@stratus.com, dmanouki@qntm.com
Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you all
Status: RO
To make alias changes send a request to:
land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com
Regards Bill G.
,------,-------,
| | |
|---{%%%%%%}---|
@==============@
|(@) [####] (@)|
| o [####] o |
================
{%} {%}
{%} {%}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HELLO
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
|----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
<| ___\ || | ____ | GOODBYE <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
\___/ \___/
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 22:17:41 1994
From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: rocks and manure
To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 20:10:44 PDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <199404082004.QAA21073@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Apr 8, 94 4:05 pm
Status: RO
You must have real hard water in you area.
Russ
>
> >
> > In message <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin"
> > writes:
> >
> > >
> > > rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him....
> > > too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for
> > > the farm rig......)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The Green Rover towed my manure spreader about once every two months for about
> > 13 years when I sold the dairy herd and the spreader. She was never hurt by it.
> > The manure gets thrown to the rear and sides. It dosn't throw in front of the
> > auger.
> >
> > What she didn't like as much was the times when I couldn't get the spreader
> > close enough to the manure and had to fill The Green Rover to the roof line with
> > manure (Lets see the Range Rover peole do that!). Afterwards, I would park her
> > up hill and hose her down. Come to think of it I probably washed the inside of
> > the car more often than I washed the outside...
> >
> > But I thought Land Rovers were designed to be farm rigs???
> >
> > TeriAnn
> >
>
> Our horses have this tendancy to shit rather large rocks along with their
> normal excrement. Our spreader has a similar tendancy to launch these
> rocks, most often while you are not looking, and usually in the forward
> direction (this is not a flop spreader but is one with those evil looking
> rotating spikes and trouls...things fly in EVERY direction). we have lost
> many a tail lens and rear window while spreading, not to mention putting
> dings and dents into the roof. just last year i was nearly removed from the
> face of this earth by a rock that hit just behind the driver's seat. it
> was twice the size of my fist, traveled at nearly the speed of sound, and
> put a hefty dent into aluminium behind the seat. i'd prefer to spare nigel
> of this task, and to leave it to the farm roach (which no longer has ANY
> rear windows.....). I also spread with a helmet on!
>
> rd/nigel/rover roach/'39 ford 9N/New Idea spreader ('50's vintage).
> (makin' do with what we've got)
>
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 05:18:11 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sparks!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 02:06:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter
> motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). One day
> I should write detailed instructions on how to remove a starter motor,
> tools needed, tricks and traps. It is the one thing that I seem to have
> done alot.
Fifteen minutes?! Is that including beer breaks? Maybe about five
minutes at most, and that is without turning the wheels or removing
the exhaust pipe (get the idea I have done it a few times? Let me
tell you about fuel pumps, no lights, 3am and about three
minutes...) Tools are simple for the starter. A 9/16 socket, a
*long* extension that will go from the bolt all the way past the
exhaust pipe, and a lot or turning... Putting the new one on is
more of a challenge, as the top bolt is a real pain.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 05:18:15 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Starter motor removal
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 02:16:15 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes:
> Oh yes, I have tried simple leverage, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, Silikroil, a
> propane torch, a propane torch combined with each of the above individually
> and together, cursing, and prayer. No luck on any of the three
> studs/bolts/nuts holding the manifold and exhaust pipe together.
The starter can come out without removing the exhaust pipe, but is
isn't fun and practice is required. If you don't want to tax the
dictionary on profanity, pulling the exhaust pipe is the way to go.
Two of the three bolts on the manifold are studs, the third you can
replace with a nut and bolt. Replacing these wtuds is *really* no
fun & requires heat force, and preferably the hear/manifold off of
the engine. If you really want the studs out, find a friend with
oxy-actelene (have new studs about to replace those that are about
to be destroyed) and really heat the manifold up. They will come
out. With my original engine oxy-propane did the trick, but I had
to really put the heat to it.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 10:46:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Starter removal From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 10:06:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes: > > Well, here is exactly where I hit the problem - as I move the starter > directly forward, it hits the vertical portion of the exhaust downpipe well > before the rear of the starter clears the bellhousing. I would guess that > I need a good inch of additional clearance. Tilting the starter in a > vertical plane as I move it forward does not gain enough clearance because > the forward edge of the starter still hits the exhaust pipe before the back > end clears the bellhousing. > > Sideways tilting is very restricted because of the adjacent block and frame. > > I would just bite the bullet and pull the whole doggone manifold/exhaust > pipe if it weren't for the fact that some of you folks keep talking about > how it is indeed possible to remove the starter without doing all that. I > am more than willing to fiddle for a while, but I *am* restricted to > Euclidean geometries! :) > Taking out a starter is like opening a Japanese Puzzle Box. It takes patience and lots of fiddling. You have the three bolts out, then you let it drop straight down so it lies horizontally stuck between the engine block and frame. Then bring it forward, and the mounting plate at the back of the starter hits the pipe. Twist the starter so that the top bolt hole is pointing up. Guide it past the exhaust pipe (easier said that done - it is a tight fit - it takes pulling up and down, twisting, pushing) Helpful hint - make sure to remove the metal band that covers the brushes before you start. The protruding bit with the bolt through it is always in the way, and I end up getting scratched by it. Good luck Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 13:46:58 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Starter removal
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 12:13:19 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
> b) move the starter forward slightly until it clears the bell housing
It might not clear the bell housing in one go, but playing around
should get it into the correct position. BTW, Are there not two
types of starters, a longer and shorter version?
> c) tilt it verticle (i believe the front part of the starter should
> now be pointed down, while the end towards the bell housing should be up.
> this operation may take two hands-one on front, and one pushing the back
> up. make sure you don't drop it on your face!
Good point! That starter drops real fast if you don't have a good
grip in it. Once I had to do the combat style roll while fumbling
with the thing to keep it up there long enough so it didn't plant
itself in the middle of my face. It missed, but not by much. From
then on, I discovered it was useful to have someone up top to hold
the thing when you managed to get it clear so you could get clear.
Now to work on the rear harness. The brake lights have decided to
stop working (besides the signals, but they are not as important)
and with a 109 full of Canadian Armed Forces tentage for the Maple
Syrup Rally it would be nice if they worked for the trip to
Shawville. If this nice weather doesn't hold out, the forty-five
confirmed attendees might be displeased with me...
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. I believe you are not *that* far from Ottawa. You should
think of coming up to our "Birthday Party" on the weekend of
June 18th. Lots of food, fun, camping, mud... :-) All are
welcome to the event, though one would hope they would come
with a Land Rover to really enjoy the outdoors. I understand
that Fred Joyce and Bruce Ricker may vie for the Saab pull
title this year. (Bruce currently holds it, as Ted and I were
miserable failures)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 13:46:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 12:57:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dixon makes mention of using an oxy- propane torch to heat up his studs and "really having to put the heat to it". As a point of interest an oxy -propane torch is well known for its lower heat in comparison to a man's tool the oxy - acetylene. Just thought you would be interested. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 9 14:26:10 1994
From: jory@MIT.EDU
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 15:19:21 EDT
Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: stupid usa-->england phone query
Status: RO
here's a stupid question:
if i want to call mereyside, how do i do it. i assume
i can dial direct, but i think i'm missing something.
is the 051 a country code, or is it like an area code
within england. i am trying to call from my work phone
(from which i can't seem to easily get a normal
operator to answer these questions) but i am supposed
to have international service enabled on my extension
(i have no trouble dialing north america long distance)
Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd.
Bridge Industrial Estate
Speke Hall Road
Speke (Nr. Airport)
Liverpool L24 9HE
tel 051 486 8636
fax 051 486 5986
also, what hours is it ok to call Mereyside (or other
british businesses) in terms of their operating hours
and the time difference (we're a bunch of hours behind
britain, right?)
as you can see, i am not much of an international
jetsetter :)
-jory
ps: i'm thinking of moving the handbrake lever to the
right-hand side to get rid of all that nasty/excessive
linkage involved in kluging it leftward in LHD rovers.
anyone else done this? sound reasonable?
pps:who other than monty and myself are rovering in the
boston area? prehaps we can arrange some get-together?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 10 01:23:20 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Starter removal
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 23:55:40 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Taking out a starter is like opening a Japanese Puzzle Box.
Taking your Land Rover apart is like preparing an English victory
garden... Before I came by, you said that you pressure washed the
creature. How come when I went under a wing to remove all sorts
of bolts, the finest Ontario topsoil rained down upon me? There
were shovel fulls by the time I was finished removing the nuts and
bolts. No wonder you busied yourself in the opposite corner of the
Land Rover. Probably chuckling all the time.
Now, lets be reasonable. Before I tackle the rear box, namely
those four bolts in the front of the box that hold it to the frame
I want you to remove that massive mushroom growing area to the
front of your rear tires. Impressive yes, but slightly difficult
to get at the bolts hidden beneath years of silt and fungue-like
growths better suited for a pizza topping. Tilling the underside
of a Land Rover shouldn't be necessary to find a nut or bolt.
I presume you find my approach to removing stubborn bolts to be
faster and more effective? You are not going to reuse those rusted
bits of metal, so the angle grinder makes like far easier... :-) I
can also assume that your willingness to taxi me to and from your
abode was aimed at keeping the milage down on my 109 and not to
ensure that I didn't fill the rear of that vehicle with an
assortment of your new parts? :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. Notice how I haven't mentioned the layout of your grounding
system for the front battery? Truly unique...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 10 01:11:08 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: OVLR birthday (was: Re: Starter removal)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 09 Apr 94 12:13:19 PDT."
<wgTikc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 94 23:03:27 PDT
Status: RO
In message <wgTikc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> you write:
> PS. I believe you are not *that* far from Ottawa. You should
> think of coming up to our "Birthday Party" on the weekend of
> June 18th. Lots of food, fun, camping, mud... :-) All are
> welcome to the event, though one would hope they would come
> with a Land Rover to really enjoy the outdoors. I understand
> that Fred Joyce and Bruce Ricker may vie for the Saab pull
> title this year. (Bruce currently holds it, as Ted and I were
> miserable failures)
I happen to be driving from Los Angeres to New Jersey starting on the
11th of June. I may swing by your neighborhood to join in the fun. (It
all depends if I have to report to work on the 13th or 14th of June or not).
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 10 14:33:16 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: jory@MIT.EDU
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: stupid usa-->england phone query
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 09 Apr 94 15:19:21 EDT."
<9404091919.AA08159@MIT.EDU>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 15:22:53 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
to 'ring up' the U.K. you need to insert the international escape prefix
(011) and the country code (44)...
tel 051 486 8636
0(11 44)51 486 8636
| | | | | +number
| | | | +exchange
| | | + UK area code
| | + country code (uk = 44, us = 01)
| + international prefix, U.S.
+ near-universal telco escape code :-)
> british businesses) in terms of their operating hours
> and the time difference (we're a bunch of hours behind
> britain, right?)
As near as I can tell, they're on British Summer Time, as we're on
Daylight savings time, so it is still add 5 hours to Eastern (7am ET is
noon there, noon ET is 5pm there, etc.) so ring them up in the morning)
- Bill caloccia@stratus.com
Currently (still) at (through April 1994):
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Marlboro, Ma, USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 11 12:07:51 1994
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 12:35:22 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: It's a gas
Status: RO
Robin Craig writes about welding/cutting gasses.
Down here in the lower 48 we have something called MAPP gas, a single
bottle propane, but supplemented with an oxidizer for higher heat.
Sometimes it can be used as a cheaper replacement for oxy-acetelyene, AKA
"the red wrench," for removing stuck bits.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 11 12:16:16 1994
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 12:35:29 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Starters
Status: RO
Dixon Kenner writes:
>BTW, Are there not two types of starters, a longer and a shorter version?
Right you are, sir. The older Series IIa (the one with the sliding band
about the bush end) is a tad longer than the Series III, which is totally
enclosed, but has a bit more gumption that the older type. Both can be
removed from a stock set-up, as I just replaced the "remanufactured" (and
ailing) IIa-style with a *brand new* III-type that I found at a British car
meet for but $60! (Such a deal!)
The trick is to go up and out, with the starter exiting the top end of the
engine compartment (Dyer gear first) between the manifolds and the
buldkead. If the IIa unit were a milimeter longer, you'd have to drop the
down pipe. While we're on it, if one needs to drop the manifolds to fix
the bleedin' exhaust pipe studs, it makes sense to drill, tap and replace
with "Heli-coil" or "Quali-zert" stainless steel thread inserts. End of
headaches, permanently.
Bill- Who is going to handle the "postmaster" duties @stratus if you skip
off to England for a while? Will you be attending the ARC Nationals...one
or more of our club members will be there, so perhaps you could share a
pint or two. Otherwise, have a safe trip.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 11 20:09:00 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 20:06:10 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO To Jory ======== I completly concur with Bill on the UK dialing information, works for me every time. also the time he quoted is spot on too, just thought you would like a confirmation. Normal news =========== Well I dont want to repeat what Dixon will be saying about the Maple syrup run except to say that Dixon and another club member Ted Rose seemed to be trying to hit or get near miss tallies on a certain person trying his damndest (sp) to try and get some good "action" pictures of Land Rovers. Well let me tell you as the target Dixon got the closest and he really was trying, I was looking through the lens waiting fo him to reach the pre focused point when it dawned up me (vehicle going a good15 mph ) that this 109 seemed to be coming neare my side of the snow covered track all the time. Can I get the picture off and dive for cover as well. I did and he only got a near miss, which in case you have never it it before, only counts in Horseshoes and Hand grenades! The lads had a great time but the lesson that any new comer to the 4 X 4 scene would have learned is this. Really deep snow, unless fitted with chains to enable multiple runs will defeat a vehicle. that is unless you have a winch and alot of friends to trample down the snow! Perhaps this is why a Canadian invented the Ski Doo (tm) ! Too be honest there was only one very small spot on the trail that was really vehicle stopping deep. The rest was good fun and all had a good day out. We even had Ted's 88 pulling the sled to collect the sap to bring back to the sugar shack. The only ohter reall deep snow was found by Andre Hamel driving a 1960 109SW [D. We were tooling around one of the back fields when he drove down the North slope of a gentle slope and found out that a North slope has deep snow. The vehicle stopped abruptly. Our illustrious club member nicknamed McGyver for his inventiveness (Harry Bligh in real life) backed his 109 to the rescue. I say backed because Harry has a rear mounted drum winch under the back of the box. This is run of the pto I beleive. Harry hitched up and tried to pull the 109 back up. No go Harry had no scotch blocks and slid towards Andre's embedd vehicle. Ok Dixon to the rescue. Already situated on the lower side of the slope having driven around Dixon attempts to pull Andre further down the hill. Harry produced his recovery strap (origin unknown) and Dixon attaches his end. The other end has a smaller strap knotted to the loop in the big strap and a hook on the other end. Andre tries to attach the hooked strap directly around the front bumper. He is advised to attach it instead to the front cross member instead. This he does. Some ex limey (me) questions the quality of the small strap. harry quickly replies that it is good for 12,000lbs and has pulled Gods knows what out of God only knows where over this winter and that its man enough for anything we can throw at it. I know this is not so looking at the way it is knotted to the other strap and looking at its condition. But then what do I know eh! Afeter a false start Dixon gets going and tries to pull Andre out. Patang!!!! The small strap ssnaps where I said it would! Harry starts to babble something but the evidence is quickly secured and another contender for the OVLR's prestigious LUGNUT Of THE YEAR award is accepted as a nominee. When i left the boys were fetching shovels (snow types) to remove some of the white guk from under and in front of Andre's vehicle for the final rescue. My wife having to go to work on time meant I had to depart at this pint as Ottawa is about an hours drive away. Iguess Dixon will fill me in on the finale. We all had a great day including a hot luch of beans and sausesges and french toast laced with the Fairheads home produced Maple Syrup. You just cant beat it folks. Cahrlie Haigh from Rovers North along with his partner Pam (Both OVLR members) came up for the event, Pams says she loves the shopping in our Byward Market in Ottawa. they seem to like this event along with our club Birthday party in the summer, you guys should really make the effort and come up and meet the folks. We'd love to see you all. Well, while chatting with Charlie, he came up with some info I thought you would be interested in. The artilce on the Mount Washington run is also in the latest edition of Car and Driver. In addition for those of you who missed it the article on their off road school was in the february edition of the same magazine. Now the really interesting point, we have found ANOTHER LURKER!!!! OK J A N H I L B O U R N E (sp) yes we know you are reading this at UVM so get out here and post something!!! Charlie aslo reports that Rovers North may soon join the information revolution and join in on the INTERNET experience. Well keep you posted. There is also lotsa other goodies happening and we'll talk more when they develop more fully locally!!!! What a teaser eh!! well thank you to Dixon for the ride in his machine, much appreciated old chap. finally a for sale item that might interest you folks, a series 3 88" military lightweight for sale. Nearly all back together now, engine runs fine according to owner, vehicle complete with a hard top, left hand drive 12 volt, caontact Michel Gagne at 613 744 4706 for more info, he wants $CAN 5,500 at the moment. might go higher if he gets more parts back on it...... So hurry folks!! Thats it for the minute Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada PS thanks to Vern and Linda Fairhead for a great day out at their spread, without it the Maple syrup run would not happen. Thanks guys bye!! -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 11 20:08:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Cudos From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 09:02:37 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Thanks to Dixon For helping with the RS wing and floors. Also thanks to another friend, Davwho helped take out the seat box and remove the box. Anybody need topsoil? Also thanks to Robin for the photograph. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 11 18:16:21 1994
From: jory@MIT.EDU
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 94 19:05:21 EDT
Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: rover names
Status: RO
I had long maintained to myself that naming rovers was
excessively something (silly perhaps?) and to be avoided.
However, I recently realized that I do refer to my rover
in a consistent manner, that could easily be characterized
as a name:
The Evil Thing
;)
-jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 01:33:52 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Maple Syrup Rally
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 22:58:28 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
> Land Rovers. Well let me tell you as the target Dixon got the closest and
> he really was trying, I was looking through the lens waiting fo him to
> reach the pre focused point when it dawned up me (vehicle going a good15
> mph ) that this 109 seemed to be coming neare my side of the snow covered
> track all the time. Can I get the picture off and dive for cover as well.
Now, now, you know as well as I do that the third Rover down the
line has a kinda preset flying path down a trail. Granted the 109
bounces about a bit, but Iwas tracking quite well down Fred's and
Ted's tracks. (BTW, I wouldn't mind a copy of that close-up of a
front right tire throwing snow as is passed by... :-))
> The lads had a great time but the lesson that any new comer to the 4 X 4
> scene would have learned is this. Really deep snow, unless fitted with
> chains to enable multiple runs will defeat a vehicle.
That is if the vehicle is hanging in the snow, suspended on the
frame, the wheels some foot above the ground. Once you break
through, you are in deep shit, chains of not.
> had Ted's 88 pulling the sled to collect the sap to bring back to the
> sugar shack.
Get any good shots of the linking mechanism? Vern was using the
rear spring shackle ofoff of a Land ROver to hood the sled to the
rear of his 88.
> Charlie aslo reports that Rovers North may soon join the information
> revolution and join in on the INTERNET experience. Well keep you posted.
Suppliers are welcome, as on the British cars mailing-list, but one
has to bear in mind that this is an open forum to discuss both the
advantages and shortcomings of suppliers. I wouldn't want the
honesty about suppliers to cease for any reason. If it might,
maybe it will be time to add the anon server in Finland as a
subsrciber for those who feel intimidated by having suppliers
on-line...
> There is also lotsa other goodies happening and we'll talk more when they
> develop more fully locally!!!! What a teaser eh!!
Like why the USA is getting the 1994 Disco and we are getting the
1995 model? :-)
> PS thanks to Vern and Linda Fairhead for a great day out at their spread,
> without it the Maple syrup run would not happen. Thanks guys
Tune up on the 7th of May followed by serious off-road on the 18th
of May. B-day paty on the 18th of June... :-)
Rgds
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 01:33:52 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Starters
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 1994 23:14:05 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes:
> Dixon Kenner writes:
> >BTW, Are there not two types of starters, a longer and a shorter version?
>
> Right you are, sir. The older Series IIa (the one with the sliding band
> about the bush end) is a tad longer than the Series III, which is totally
> enclosed, but has a bit more gumption that the older type.
As I thought. Doesn't help our friend and his uncoperative starter
though. Mine is the longer type and it does come out.
> The trick is to go up and out,
Interesting approach. I wouldn't have thought it would have fit
that way. How do you get it past all of the throatle linkages and
heat shield?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 02:39:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 01:07:11 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Where are all you people. it is now 0110 on tuedsday morning and I have just read all 6 new messages on the system since I posted my maple syrup run report on Sunday night. What is going on with you folks? I have just finished bulling my boots for a "D Day " press conference on Thursday and thought that I would reward myself with some good reading on the system, well thanks alot folks! I should have known that right at the same time I was writing the truth about the maple syrup run Dixon would be writing the "it favours my end of the story version"! By the way, got a phone call from Harry's partner today wanting to have his precious tow strap back!! More like he doesnt want the evidence around! never fear, the camera is load with the Fujichrome so I'll blast a few good shots off before sending the valued item back to Harry. Dale reported that he's made lotsa progress on the 88 rebuild project. I thought he said something about "5 times as much work got done without Dixon around to whine about the mud" but I could have heard it wrong though, my hearing is pretty suspect these days! So its official now, Land Rover Canada will launch their Discovery line next month. We in Canada get the 1995 model year version, you people below the border get the older 1994 version, at least that is what I was told by a Reliable (your credibility is on the line here pal) informant. Now where is that message from JAN HILBOURNE (sp) from UVM. Come on out Jan, your lurking days are over, get out here and post something...... Good night little people see 'ya all in the daylight. regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada.(The prefered market area!!!) -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 10:25:43 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:50:57 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Starter removal
Status: RO
>> The trick is to go up and out...
> Interesting approach. I wouldn't have thought it would fit that way.
How do you get it past all of the throtle linkages and heat shield?
Linkages!?! We don't need no stinkin' linkages!
Actually, they don't get in the way, while the heat shield has long since
departed. Even though it gets hotter than the hinges of hell down here,
most of the folks in the club have removed the exhaust manifold heat
shield. On my Rover, the original manifold cracked at the back end, its
replacement also cracked, as did the brazed repair. All at the same spot.
When I (correctly) predicted the eventual demise of three other manifolds,
all were quickly discarded in favor of toasted tootsies in the foot wells.
The only thing we could figure is that they concentrate too much heat
around number four exhaust port (and if I had a heat shield, at the very
least, I would perforate it to avoid concentrating the heat). Since I
removed it, no problems (other than medium-rare feet). BTW, I would
reccommend 'aluminizing', flame-sprayed aluminum (like a cross between a
MIG welder and a paint spray gun) a process that eliminates rust of the
cast iron manifold.
With the heat shield history, the starter (either the IIa or III-style) can
be withdrawn up and out. Here's how (in less than 5 min.): 1) unbolt cable
and the two bolts. 2) Withdraw unit, turn slightly and drop front end to
rest between down pipe and frame rail. The Dyer gear shaft will just clear
the upper inner of the bell housing hole. 3) Grab the shaft end and
withdraw (up) between the exhaust manifold and bulkhead. 4) Go pop a cold
one. Takes longer to explain it than it does to do it.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 10:24:00 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:51:17 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: New subsrciber?
Status: RO
I'm trying to locate a new name on the newsgroup...LTC Anthony Cerri. I
noticed from the message header that you are posted to "TRADOC IG I" while
the message was received from MONROE-EMH1.ARMY.MIL Could that be the
training and doctrine command at Ft. Monroe, just a few miles from where I
type this? Anyway, my two direct E-mails came back with the Internet
equivalent of "addressee unknown" so if you read this, give us a ring.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 13:59:47 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 12 Apr 94 18:49:50 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Suppliers on the Mailing List Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dixon, I can understand the concern some may feel about having suppliers on the mailing list. On one hand I would love to have everybody on the list so that we could have input from (and provide input to) all of our suppliers. I like to think that I'm on friendly terms with all of the US suppliers I've dealt with. They've all provided good customer service and when orders have been screwed up or I've hade a problem with defective parts, they were quick to resolve it. On the other hand when I have a complaint about parts quality or price, I would like to be able to share it with other Rover owners without fear of damaging my current relationship with my suppliers. These folks are only human and people tend to remember negative experiences far longer than positive experiences. I would hope that constructive criticism would be taken in a positive manner to correct an existing problem, but people do not always take it that way. Some gripes I have are: ABP - Brake drum screws are so over tolerance that you need an impact wrench to install and remove them (and that's when they're brand new!). British Rovers - The price you're quoted on the phone can be somewhat lower than that on the invoice. Be sure to nail down the exact cost of parts and shipping before approving the order. Rovers North - The shift lever for my Series III 109 with the non-replacable nylon bush lasted only 6 months. They did make good on the warranty but the thing should last awhile. Especially considering the low mileage I put on them and how carefully I drive. I wound up welding a nut to the end of the old lever then grinding it into a ball of the proper dimensions. All - PRICE PRICE PRICE!!!! Apart from large heavy parts why is it that we can order direct from England and pay through the nose for air shipping (sometimes one or two times the cost of the parts order) and still save 50-60% off the prices of the US suppliers while paying retail (and they're buying wholesale and saving on bulk shipping)? I hoped that when British Rovers opened up that some much needed competition would arise. Unfortunately it hasn't happened and every one now is within a few dollars of each other for the same parts. Back to just prior the the gulf war when the pound went to over $2.00, it was understandable that the US suppliers would have to raise their prices. And raise them they did. 20, 50, even as much as 100%. But after the war had ended and the pound dropped back to the $1.50s the prices did not drop. I could be wrong but it seems that in the UK as the British suppliers in LRO have multiplied, the competition has lowered their prices somewhat. I can't speak for all Rover owners but my budget is limited and I have to research my higher dollar purchases carefully. So although I really like these folks and want to patronize them, I can't always afford to. I don't know if this has done any good but it felt good to get it out. There are both pros and cons to having suppliers on the mailing list, but my final thought on that issue is to include them and hope that they can accept criticism in a constructive manner that can be used to better their businesses and that we can provide that criticism tactfully so both customers and suppliers can benefit from improved customer service. Sorry for rambling. Excuse me while I open my door, there's a lot of hot air in here. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 14:04:44 1994
From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon)
Date: 12 Apr 94 18:52:51 GMT
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Message-Service: mail
Subject: Cracked Manifolds
Content-Type: Text
Status: RO
Sandy,
You wrote that the rear runner of your exhaust manifold had cracked on
multiple occasions, and that the culprit could have been the heat shield.
There are two other possibilities.
1. The exhaust manifold to intake manifold bolts were tightened before mating
the assembly to the head. This can cause stress on the manifold which can
lead to future cracking. However, knowing the quality of the work that
you do, I feel this is unlikely.
2. The plate on the inner LH wing that covers the hole for the diesel exhaust
pipe could be missing. This allows cold water to be sprayed on the rear
runner when going though puddles, and can crack things real quick.
I hope this helps.
Bill Maloney
88 IIA & 109 Wagon
W-201 428-3491
H-201 835-1796
wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com
AT&T Rm. CC24
4 Woodhollow Rd.
Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 15:53:02 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:45:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Robin Craig <rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <Z10kkc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
> Now the really interesting point, we have found ANOTHER LURKER!!!!
>
> OK J A N H I L B O U R N E (sp) yes we know you are reading this at UVM
> so get out here and post something!!!
>
hey hey hey i'm not a total lurker... it's just that i only log in every
few days and by the time i read something there are already so many pithy
replies that i would be redundant. I *have* posted a few things.
But for the record:
i'm jan hilborn and my beloved rover is Witt (and Jory, maybe if you
named your truck it would treat you better...). Witt is a 67 88 and is
the 6th (and best rover i've owned) ('55 86", '67 109", '69 88", '71 88,
and '73 88"). I once was the editor for the Rovers North newsletter. I
currently drive Witt all over the back roads of the state visiting
families who work on farms and delivering books to children (this is a
real job, honest).
i do not work for rovers north and rally's and newsletters (and
occasional computer questions) aside never have. I rent a room to Dirk of
Rovers North (and his dog and cat) and live down the hill from Pam and
Charlie.
And yes, I have obtained an internet id for the use of RN and subscribed
to this mailing (haven't checked it today to see if Bill's added it yet).
It will be LEFERLAN. I have been pushing for RN to have someone follow
this mailing list but i also have mixed emotions about it and expect
LEFERLAN to be a lurking ID for the most part.
With my close ties (and ready parts supply) to RN i'm real partial to
that particular rover source; but they aren't the only supplier and other
people are welcome to their preferences. I'm a little afraid that having
RN as part of the mailing list might come to seem like they are
advocating for themselves even if they never say "call us for this
part..." or "don't shop there blah blah blah".
I also like the free give and take of rover advice and lore and would
hate to have some people refrain out of respect for the experts (if such
of either (respect or experts) exist) or whatever.
SO... after this long preamble... what does the rest of the mailing list
think of RN joining, lurking, tossing in their 2 cents worth?
jan
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 15:58:37 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 13:50:47 PST From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Suppliers Status: RO Bill, >On the other hand when I have a complaint about parts quality or price, I >would like to be able to share it with other Rover owners without fear of >damaging my current relationship with my suppliers. These folks are only >human and people tend to remember negative experiences far longer than >positive experiences. I would hope that constructive criticism would >be taken in a positive manner to correct an existing problem, but people do >not always take it that way. Any reasonable business would like to know of complaints so they could ensure that they had made every effort to satisfy their customer. If a company would hose you in the future for comments made on this list, then it's better that you know and stop doing business with them. It takes 10 happy customers to offset 1 unhappy customers. There is no way to ensure that vendors don't see this list anyway. The Rodaster Factory has an account on the British Cars list and I have never heard of anybody being screwed by them because of comments made...I beleive the same would be true of Rover's North. I would welcome them to share their knowledge with the group. >All - PRICE PRICE PRICE!!!! Apart from large heavy parts why is it that we >can order direct from England and pay through the nose for air shipping >(sometimes one or two times the cost of the parts order) and still >save 50-60% >off the prices of the US suppliers while paying retail (and they're buying >wholesale and saving on bulk shipping)? >I hoped that when British Rovers opened up that some much needed competition >would arise. Unfortunately it hasn't happened and every one now is within a >few dollars of each other for the same parts. I beleive that the competition is there already. If you want the cheapest price, deal directly with the UK vendors...of course you have to deal with the delay in getting parts, the phone bill, and the fact that for small orders it doesn't pay. I'm willing to pay the difference and deal with Rover's North. The other added benifit is the advice I have often received over the phone (which is not paid for directly). Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com 1970 88" Series IIA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 16:21:11 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: your mail To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu (Jan Hilborn) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 16:10:37 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9404121604.A124525-0100000@moose.uvm.edu> from "Jan Hilborn" at Apr 12, 94 04:45:26 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1241 Status: RO Jan Hilborn was bold enough to point out... > SO... after this long preamble... what does the rest of the mailing list >think of RN joining, lurking, tossing in their 2 cents worth? I'm hoping to get some good stuff from them. And if they deserve bashing, then let the cards fall. But then, I am a RN fan... On another note, I just noticed that my reply is going to Jan and not the LRO-list. I think I need to always cc the LRO-list if I want my replies posted. (is that true, fans) or did you get two copies of this... This might explain why I sometimes feel I don't get all the LRO mail threads I feel I should be getting. To say it another way, I think LRO-list is not a sophisticated listprocessor package. It is my understanding that sophisticated listprocessor packages switch the "from" address so that replies go back to the list. And this isn't happening or so it seems to me... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 16:23:33 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 17:13:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: Suppliers on the Mailing List Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404121850.OAA09892@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Bill Maloney had some good points reagrding suppliers on the list. I originally wanted RN to monitor the list to better understand what the needs of (some of) their customers were. Plus for some problems it wouldn't hurt to have the free advice from the whole RN team not just the guy who happens to answer the phone the time you call with problem X. i also thought it would be nice to be able to save a phone call to see if a part was in stock for those who shop at RN. i've already expressed my concerns. i really would like for RN to be able to at least lurk for a while; not as spys or naughty customer name takers but so they can hear more of the rover world than what filters in over the phone... jan
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 16:31:49 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 17:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: Suppliers To: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940412135047_7@ccm.hf.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Tue, 12 Apr 1994, Bruce Harding wrote: > >I hoped that when British Rovers opened up that some much needed competition > >would arise. Unfortunately it hasn't happened and every one now is within a > >few dollars of each other for the same parts. > it's comments like the above that have helped keep me lurking. Living with a RN parts guy lets me know that any company selling "genuine" LR parts in the US gets them through RN and if they are selling them cheaper than RN then they are cutting their own throat (or not paying RN and thereby ultimately raising the overall cost of parts since RN has to make their money back somehow). Some business (and not just car part suppliers) take a loss on X to make money on Y but if you take a loss on the whole alphabet then something has to give... but is the above info a) anyone's business (other than the suppliers and their creditors) and b) important or worth knowing?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 16:56:40 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: "From" addresses on LRO mail To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:48:42 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404122110.AA23278@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Apr 12, 94 4:10 pm Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said: > > On another note, I just noticed that my reply is going to Jan > and not the LRO-list. I think I need to always cc the LRO-list > if I want my replies posted. (is that true, fans) or did you > get two copies of this... This might explain why I sometimes > feel I don't get all the LRO mail threads I feel I should be > getting. > > To say it another way, I think LRO-list is not a sophisticated > listprocessor package. It is my understanding that sophisticated > listprocessor packages switch the "from" address so that > replies go back to the list. And this isn't happening or so > it seems to me... I've often noted this before. I think the LRO list would have a lot more (beneficial) traffic if the "From:" address were automatically changed to be "lro@transfer.stratus.com", rather than the real sender. Take a look at some of the other auto related lists like datsun-roadsters, british-cars, and z-car, which all perform the "From:" line transformation automatically. Any chance we could get this to happen here? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 16:52:33 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 14:45:03 PST From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: suppliers Status: RO I didn't write the quote below...I commented on it. Here is what I wrote: Any reasonable business would like to know of complaints so they could ensure that they had made every effort to satisfy their customer. If a company would hose you in the future for comments made on this list, then it's better that you know and stop doing business with them. It takes 10 happy customers to offset 1 unhappy customers. There is no way to ensure that vendors don't see this list anyway. The Rodaster Factory has an account on the British Cars list and I have never heard of anybody being screwed by them because of comments made...I beleive the same would be true of Rover's North. I would welcome them to share their knowledge with the group. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com On Tue, 12 Apr 1994, Bruce Harding wrote: > >I hoped that when British Rovers opened up that some much needed competition > >would arise. Unfortunately it hasn't happened and every one now is within a > >few dollars of each other for the same parts. > it's comments like the above that have helped keep me lurking. Living with a RN parts guy lets me know that any company selling "genuine" LR parts in the US gets them through RN and if they are selling them cheaper than RN then they are cutting their own throat (or not paying RN and thereby ultimately raising the overall cost of parts since RN has to make their money back somehow). Some business (and not just car part suppliers) take a loss on X to make money on Y but if you take a loss on the whole alphabet then something has to give... but is the above info a) anyone's business (other than the suppliers and their creditors) and b) important or worth knowing?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 20:21:30 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Suppliers on the Mailing List
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 18:14:05 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> I can understand the concern some may feel about having suppliers on the
> mailing list.
Well, I am still kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. If need
be, I'll set up an anon forwarder here so people who wish to make
adverse comments can do so easily without fear of any repercussions
from a supplier.
> On the other hand when I have a complaint about parts quality or price, I
> would like to be able to share it with other Rover owners without fear of
> damaging my current relationship with my suppliers.
Considering it already goes on within the clubs at social events,
and general comminication among local people, it doesn't take much
for a supplier to begin to notice orders dry up. At least here,
they would know why and maybe try and make amends rather be stuck
in the dark. As before, there are advantages and disadvantages to
the whole thing.
> ABP - Brake drum screws are so over tolerance that you need an impact wrench
> to install and remove them (and that's when they're brand new!).
My understanding is that they have problems at times with the
quality of the non-genuine parts. I have never really dealt with
them, more from the fact that I think that their catalogue is
poorly done and they use their own internal numbering system.
> Rovers North - The shift lever for my Series III 109 with the non-replacable
> nylon bush lasted only 6 months. They did make good on the warranty but the
> thing should last awhile. Especially considering the low mileage I put on
> them and how carefully I drive. I wound up welding a nut to the end of the
> old lever then grinding it into a ball of the proper dimensions.
I have always had good experiences with them, though if you need
spark plug wires, order the Series III set for your Land Rover and
not the II/IIA wires. The III wires are genuine, while the IIA
wires are Lucas reproductions made by Noma in Toronto. The quality
isn't there... RN has certainly been good to OVLR in the past
which has certainly lead to a lot of commerce with them. On some
items, one might as well go to them, despite the unreasonabe prices
at times, as dealing with them is certainly easier than dealing
with the UK if something is wrong and you need the part yesterday.
Charlie, et al., are also knowledgable if you have questions,
something that is impossible with dealing with the UK at times.
There catalogue is also excellent compared to the competition, US
or UK.
> All - PRICE PRICE PRICE!!!! Apart from large heavy parts why is it that we
> can order direct from England and pay through the nose for air shipping
> (sometimes one or two times the cost of the parts order) and still save 50-60
> off the prices of the US suppliers while paying retail (and they're buying
> wholesale and saving on bulk shipping)?
Hence the success of the massive bulk order a number of OVLR
members participated in last fall. Done in this fashion it begins
to get real cheap. A metric ton of parts sent from Merseyside and
landed in Montreal for about ten percent of the order cost? Hard
to beat, and it only took three weeks for it to get here. However,
the down side with dealing with the UK comes in where there are
differences between the UK and NA specs. Merseyside seems unable
to understand what an early IIA tailight is all about. One must be
very specific when ordering parts, as well as understanding that
many of them will be non-genuine parts (though in many cases there
is no such thing, just a different box for the same parts.) Clear
and concise orders, referenced at times to page numbers in the
factory parts manual makes it clear what is desired, so any
mistakes are generally from just pulling the wrong thing from the
shelf.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 17:29:15 1994
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 15:20:40 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu, Robin@apple.com, Craig@apple.com,
rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: your mail
Status: RO
In message <Pine.3.89.9404121604.A124525-0100000@moose.uvm.edu> Jan Hilborn
writes:
>
Snip snip
And yes, I have obtained an internet id for the use of RN and subscribed
> to this mailing (haven't checked it today to see if Bill's added it yet).
> It will be LEFERLAN. I have been pushing for RN to have someone follow
> this mailing list but i also have mixed emotions about it and expect
> LEFERLAN to be a lurking ID for the most part.
> With my close ties (and ready parts supply) to RN i'm real partial to
> that particular rover source; but they aren't the only supplier and other
> people are welcome to their preferences. I'm a little afraid that having
> RN as part of the mailing list might come to seem like they are
> advocating for themselves even if they never say "call us for this
> part..." or "don't shop there blah blah blah".
> I also like the free give and take of rover advice and lore and would
> hate to have some people refrain out of respect for the experts (if such
> of either (respect or experts) exist) or whatever.
> SO... after this long preamble... what does the rest of the mailing list
> think of RN joining, lurking, tossing in their 2 cents worth?
> jan
>
We went through this on the British car list a few mounths back (If any group
can worry something to death that group can.
Our end position is that we welcomed commercial companies as long as they arn't
being commercial. ie they can lurk, provide technical help, join in tall tales
and other true stories, discuss adventures with their own cars etc.
However forbidden is list wide advertisements, or directly approaching a member
on their own to offer to sell a part. What was OK is if someone asks where they
can get a part, to reply to that person without bombing the list. Or if someone
approaches them first with inquiries about what they have for sale.
Announcements about car related events (other than sales are OK).
My opinion... If a company is a good internet citizen and observes mail list
guidelines it probably would be good for everyone to have them on-board. If
they get obnoxious, its their own bottom line they would be hurting from the
resulting bad press.
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 17:45:54 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: "From" addresses on LRO mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:48:42 PDT."
<9404122148.AA22826@shute.monsanto.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 15:36:38 PDT
Status: RO
In message <9404122148.AA22826@shute.monsanto.com> you write:
> I've often noted this before. I think the LRO list would have a lot more
> (beneficial) traffic if the "From:" address were automatically changed to
> be "lro@transfer.stratus.com", rather than the real sender. Take a look at
> some of the other auto related lists like datsun-roadsters, british-cars,
> and z-car, which all perform the "From:" line transformation
> automatically.
It takes more programming. A friend of mine set up a mail list which
changed all of the From: lines. All went well until one of the machines on
the distribution list went down. Whereupon the mail to the machine was marked
return to sender and a positive feedback sequence was formed. In our case,
mail would be sent to lro@stratus.com which would send the message to all of
us. One machine would bounce the message back to lro@stratus.com saying "mail
undeliverable." lro@stratus.com would dutifully pass this message on to all
of us. That one machine would bounce again repeating the process. This
endless loop adds ~10 lines of text for every bounce (All those mail headers
taht are appended.) Depending upon how fast the network trafic is, the
frequency of bounces will be set (for us I got a new message every 2 minutes for
12 hours).
So if we reprogram our mailing list. The keeper of the list should
figure out a way to filter out bounced mail.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 19:20:10 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 20:12:04 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Dixon Kenner writes: > >BTW, Are there not two types of starters, a longer and a shorter version? > > Right you are, sir. The older Series IIa (the one with the sliding band > about the bush end) is a tad longer than the Series III, which is totally > enclosed, but has a bit more gumption that the older type. > > As I thought. Doesn't help our friend and his uncoperative starter > though. Mine is the longer type and it does come out. > > The trick is to go up and out, > > Interesting approach. I wouldn't have thought it would have fit > that way. How do you get it past all of the throatle linkages and > heat shield? hmmmm. Guess Nigel has one of the newer types (since it is easily removed and since it packs a punch when I hit the lil' button. Mine is most easily removed "down and out", however.......she clears just fine and gravity does most of the work (yep, all I gotta do is keep it from hitting me square in the forehead........KA-lunk!). ************************************************************************** Dixon writes: > PS. I believe you are not *that* far from Ottawa. You should > think of coming up to our "Birthday Party" on the weekend of > June 18th. Lots of food, fun, camping, mud... :-) All are > welcome to the event, though one would hope they would come > with a Land Rover to really enjoy the outdoors. I understand > that Fred Joyce and Bruce Ricker may vie for the Saab pull > title this year. (Bruce currently holds it, as Ted and I were > miserable failures) Nope, I'm not *that* far (not as close as northern Vt., though). By my passenger vehicle (I won't remind you what that is) I am about 8 hrs. at most. By rover, add 25-50% for those kidney-rests (esp on NYS roadways). Getting the sig-oth to agree to a long-term rover cruise may be another matter....don't get me wrong-she loves da Nige (you should have seen her standing out in the rain all sunday with parts and tools in her hands!)-but she is easily nausiated by bumps and that ever persistant smell of caked-on north sea crude. Believe me, I've considered joining you crazy canadians many times.....and this could be the year. We'll see. (Thanks again for the invites.) ***************************************************************************** On another note, here is a kicker for you all. A week or so ago I took Nige out for a stroll and was distressed to find that the clutch needed a pump or two to get pedal. Having rebuilt the slave cylinder a year or so ago, and having seen what lousy shape it was in, I made the assumption it was time to do the master. Saturday (finally), off came the wing (it was actually much easier that way, and spared me having to worry about stripping my pipe fittings upon reinstallation), the master cylinder was retrieved......and it looked great! In fact, I'd guess it had been rebuilt (judging by the fresh grease and the condition of the outer boot and inner seals) less than five years ago (Nigel has been in the family just under two years now). Hmmm. Well, for the $9.XX I paid for this rebuild kit years ago I figured I may as well do it anyway. Rebuilt, reassembled....same problem. OK..air in the system, we say? Park Nigel on the steepest slope I can find in every orientation I can imagine and bleed the living shit out of him again and again. A quart or so of Castrol LMA later, same problem. Re-remove the clutch master and bench bleed it (again), then bleed the system once more. NG. In order to spare myself the embarrassment of (still) not having obtained an EZ-bleed kit, and to avoid having several of you kind souls from having to politely tell me I should get one (once again) I went out on Sunday morning and tracked one down for about $40.00 (acutally, it is not an official EZ-bleed, but it's equivalent.....it is a gun-action suction pump that attaches to the bleed screw and sucks fluids at a rapid rate...... I do believe this is how an EZ-bleed kit also works, no?). Bleed, bleed, bleed. Same problem. (Actually, I have always-and still-thought that clutch bleeding should be no problem at all since clutch master cylinders throw soo much fluid, at least relative to a brake master....I'll save my EZ-bleed equivalent for one of those future fun adventures....) Finally, I get smart, and decide to look at the slave. (I had looked at it first thing, to see that it wasn't leaking, and it wasn't.....). Ahhhhhh. This first pump that was needed wasn't pumping air at all....it was actually moving the slave. Sheared pin connecting the lever to the cross shaft you ask? Nope. In fine shape. Perhaps the cross shaft slipped on the splines to the fork?? Don't think so. Cross shaft has the "inner" pin at exactly horizontal, "outer" pin (connecting to the actuating lever that rides on the slave) is perfectly verticle-just as it was a year ago (and just as it should be according to the manual). I soon realised that the "first pump" was merely taking up slack in the clutch (NOT the linkage-everything, including the bush that the linkage pivots on, was in fine shape). I discovered that if I removed the slave return spring (which I am told was dropped in '61 or so) that all felt normal (the return spring was taking up extra slack in the clutch, pushing the slave to its uppermost point, and the first pump was required to push the slave to the point where it just engages the clutch). Following that, all felt normal (and it never feels hard, crunchy, or mushy....just one smooth clutch pedal feel). At this point I was a tad confused, but decided to correct a problem I should have corrected last year-my slave cylinder was installed WITHIN the enclosed box (this is an old style "enclosed slave cylinder") instead of on top of it (as indicated in the workshop manual, but barely, and as confirmed by the chums at RN). To do this requires not only the usual floor/tranny cover removal, but also removal of the cross shaft-lever linkage, which in turn requires removal of the front prop shaft....and it is raining, and the poor lil' sig oth has come to visit for the weekend....lucky her. Of course, the pin holding the actuating lever to the cross shaft is frozen, and requires drilling..... ok...eventually it is all put back together correctly, and of course it still has the same problem (providing the return spring is on). (Actually, placing the slave in its correct position only makes the problem worse, and I suspect that a previous owner realised this and that is why it was placed within the enclosing box, about 1/2" closer to the tip of the push rod that drives the cross shaft.) So naturally, I decide to leave the damned spring off. Everything is now fine, except that my clutch engages at the top of the pedal. A monday morning call to RN reveals that I did the right thing by leaving the spring off, and, providing I do in fact have a smooth clutch with no sticky/mushy/crunchy/jammy feel to it (I do, promise) then the likely cause is a nearly shot clutch.....springs/pressure plate being the most likely cause. Nigel does have this persistant problem with clutch judder-which I used to attribute to my three of four busted motor mounts, until I replace them, and then attributed to worn out U-joints, which I haven't replaced yet, but now..........a clutch job seems imminent. What still confuses me is why this all of a sudden happened? Is my clutch ready to let go?? yikes. Thanks for bearing with me (for those that did). Sorry for cluttering you mailbox (for those that didn't). Rgds, rdushin/nigel (how long does it take to do a clutch job in canada, aye?)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 21:30:51 1994
From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:22:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Suppliers on the List
To: lro@stratus.com
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
X-Vms-To: LANDROVER
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
I'm not a total idealist, but I agree with Terriann(e?) that any good
citizens are welcome.
I also know that Bill Klopping of Roverworks is planning to get
an Internet hookup (Jeff Berg, you probably know more than I do), and
he DOES, by the way, get genuine parts cheaper than RN sells them, and
not from Rovers North.
The problem with Roverworks is that they are a small operation, so
they don't have a large stock of parts, and there aren't many people
working for them, so they're slow and disorganized. But they do good work,
and have good prices (at least I thought so) I bought a Salisbury rear axle
with all new brakes etc from a late model III which came over from
england, and they delivered it (to upstate new york) and helped me install
it for $500. The price I paid (not monetary) was that I had to operate
on their time schedule, which was slower than the prompt response I always
get out of Rovers North.
So, I welcome the suppliers as participants, not advertisers.
Michael Ramage
Ramagem@Carleton.edu
Carleton College, Northfield MN USA
1971 88 IIa, 1967 109 IIa
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 12 20:54:53 1994
From: llevitt@idcresearch.com
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 21:48:25 EST
Encoding: 2049 Text
To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: "From" addresses on LRO mail
Content-Length: 1999
Status: RO
I'm participating in another list in which the only source is the list server.
As a result, it is extremely difficult to take conversations offline, as nobody
knows who said what unless the author provides their email address. On other
lists the target is the list, with individual being BCCd. This works pretty well
I'd strongly recommend that we continue with the existing schema as opposed to
going to the anonymous format. Otherwise, we'd find that the signal to noise
ratio would degrade a *lot*.
BTW, when you send don't forget to specify the list...
Lee
(currently Roverless, anyone have a spare?)
llevitt@idcresearch.com
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: "From" addresses on LRO mail
Author: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> at Internet
Date: 4/12/94 4:48 PM
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said:
>
> On another note, I just noticed that my reply is going to Jan
> and not the LRO-list. I think I need to always cc the LRO-list
> if I want my replies posted. (is that true, fans) or did you
> get two copies of this... This might explain why I sometimes
> feel I don't get all the LRO mail threads I feel I should be
> getting.
>
> To say it another way, I think LRO-list is not a sophisticated
> listprocessor package. It is my understanding that sophisticated
> listprocessor packages switch the "from" address so that
> replies go back to the list. And this isn't happening or so
> it seems to me...
I've often noted this before. I think the LRO list would have a lot more
(beneficial) traffic if the "From:" address were automatically changed to
be "lro@transfer.stratus.com", rather than the real sender. Take a look at
some of the other auto related lists like datsun-roadsters, british-cars,
and z-car, which all perform the "From:" line transformation
automatically.
Any chance we could get this to happen here?
Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 00:55:59 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Nigel is protesting that he wants to come to Canada... :-)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 22:59:33 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
> hmmmm. Guess Nigel has one of the newer types (since it is easily removed
> and since it packs a punch when I hit the lil' button. Mine is most easily
> removed "down and out", however.......she clears just fine and gravity does
> most of the work (yep, all I gotta do is keep it from hitting me square in
> the forehead........KA-lunk!).
The Swamp Beast has the earlier type and it comes out with a heavy
clunk too... :-) Guess it must be some other reason that it is not
co-operating on some Land Rovers.
> Nope, I'm not *that* far (not as close as northern Vt., though). By my
> passenger vehicle (I won't remind you what that is) I am about 8 hrs. at
> most. By rover, add 25-50% for those kidney-rests (esp on NYS roadways).
We have one chap who has flat towed his Series I to the Birthday
Party for years. He is about 450 miles away and his Land Rover has
never had any problems from the towing. Another option... :-)
Ottawa is about an hour up highway 16 from the US border.
> I've considered joining you crazy canadians many times.....and this could
> be the year. We'll see. (Thanks again for the invites.)
All are welcome & it is a good time with lots of mud and water...
<grin> Another advantage is borne out on my latest MasterDebt
bill. My last order to RN showed that the US$ was worth $1.376727,
and the UK pound is up to about $2.05Cdn. I guess this is what
happens when you have zero inflation, low interest rates (now back
up to about 5-6%), and preditory financial markets out for a fast
profit, but that's another topic...
> Saturday (finally), off came the wing (it was actually much easier that
> way, and spared me having to worry about stripping my pipe fittings upon
> reinstallation),
I, Dale, George, and others have put captive nuts for the wings.
It makes taking the wing off a lot faster and easier. Anti-seize
on the bolts for when they go back in is a must, as the wing will
be coming off again, probably sooner than one thinks.
> sticky/mushy/crunchy/jammy feel to it (I do, promise) then the likely cause
> is a nearly shot clutch.....springs/pressure plate being the most likely
> cause. Nigel does have this persistant problem with clutch judder-which I
> used to attribute to my three of four busted motor mounts, until I replace
> them, and then attributed to worn out U-joints, which I haven't replaced
> yet, but now..........a clutch job seems imminent.
Quite the story! However, three busted engine mounts? They are
quick and easy to replace. All you need is a floor jack to lift
the engine, then gearbox, to get the old out and the new in. Of
course, there was one former OVLR member who arrived for the
off-road stuff with his engine & gearbox chained to the frame...
U-joints are also pretty easy to replace. You could get all of
this done in an afternoon without any problem.
> (how long does it take to do a clutch job in canada, aye?)
An old service manual I once saw said that it was a 13.5 hour job.
How they did it is another matter. This seems to be a bit
excessive. My approach would be to pull the engine out.
Disconnecting the engine/gearbox, seperating them somewhat and then
working inbetween seems to sound very painful. Pulling the engine
isn't that difficult, just time consuming. Of course it helps a
lot if you have more than one person around to do this. Leaving
bait in the form of beer generally gathers a couple of friends
which results in a shorter procedure. Hmmm, how long in Canada? I
wonder if I could get away with saying shorter than in the US...
:-)
My current problem continues to be flakey brake lights. After much
testing, it seems to be narrowing down to a faulty brake light
switch. Now, do I pull one off of a late '60's MGB or just phone
and order a new one... :-) I guess I should be smart and do the
later.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 08:48:19 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: your mail To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:38:09 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199404130010.UAA28855@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at Apr 12, 94 08:12:04 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1241 Status: RO Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... >nearly shot clutch.....springs/pressure plate being the most > likely cause. Nigel does >have this persistant problem with clutch judder-which I used > to attribute to my three >of four busted motor mounts, until I replace them, and then > attributed to worn out >U-joints, which I haven't replaced yet, but now..........a > clutch job seems imminent. > >What still confuses me is why this all of a sudden happened? Is my clutch ready to >let go?? yikes. > LULU also has the clutch judder's but only when it gets hot out. And that time of year is approaching. The motor mounts were good (but old and used) and the u-joints had no wiggle when I dropped in the motor about 18 months ago. I thought it might be oil on the clutch. What does cause clutch judder and why would it be related to hot temperature and operating conditions??? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 08:54:27 1994
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:42:29 -0400
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: Suppliers on the Mailing List
Status: RO
I don't feel that having suppliers on the mailing list will create any
problems at all. I've been part of several online discussion groups, both
in bulletin board and real-time format, which have included vendors.
Sometimes the vendors behave like adults, take criticism on a case-by-case
basis, (in other words accept and try to fix the legitimate gripes, but
defend themselves against unfair accusations) and are generally useful
additions to the group. Even if I don't agree with them, I can see where
they're coming from and respect that point of view. Some vendors behave
like petulant children. I like this because it makes it real easy for me
to decide which vendor to deal with. It really does give you additional
insite into the personality behind the business you're dealing with.
I know that Bill at Roverworks has an AOL account and would like to join
this group in the near future. I think you'll find more suppliers will
make the group more useful and interesting. Once we have a few with us
they should serve to keep each other partially in check. Besides, most of
the people I've dealt with seem to be Rover enthusiasts first, and
businessmen second. Of the vendors I've spoken to I'd guess that only one
would be a problem online, and we'd figure out where he was coming from
real quick.
If people are really concerned about vendor bias there is one step we could
take. We can ask that vendors voluntarily use a signature line that
clearly indicates who they are. That way people can judge the validity of
any comments made, especially about competing vendors, in context. Also, I
would suggest that the list not be used for price inquiries or order follow
through. That's more appropriately done via private EMAIL, and probably
more efficiently done over the phone unless a vendor is specifically set up
to provide these services online.
I know that I'm a relative newcomer to the list, and I don't want to rock
the boat. Personally, I welcome the addition of any and all Rover vendors,
and let free market take over from there.
JAB
== ==
Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program
Technical Administrator New York University
berg@acf2.nyu.edu
=================
My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
Taste for the good life.
I can see it no other way.
Jimmy Buffett
== ==
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 10:43:48 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:20:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well I'm taking a moment away from blaco'ing my web gear for tommorrow, so I'll try to be quick. I feel that te system we are all on is very good for promoting disccussion and for answering questions about anything Land Rover ish. I will try to explain how I feel about Rovers North, but first I don not own a 1:1 Land Rover (for the minute) and therefore have more of an idealist view point. I have been involved with Land Rovers here ibn the Valley since mid '87 when I first joined OVLR and have been it's president for a two year span. Rovers North are in my mind (remember this is my PERSONAL comment) very decent people to deal with, but I have only ever really had contact with Rovers North people as far as dealers/ parts suppliers go anyway. Mark has a very talented and very likeable staff. They have always done what they can to promote LAnd Rovering and have been long time supporters of this club, but then so have ABP Can and ABP us aswell. I think that we can only benefit from the technical input to our problems (If RN have time to do so). It can only benefit RN in giving them a feed back, very quickly on problems. It goes without saying that blatant advertising or sales on the system are out, but that is understood from anyway I'm sure. Giving us updates on coming events is great aswell. Dont forget that RN will probably end up advocating our system to new owners of the Solihull product line thereby increasing the number of persons on the system. This will add more colour etc..... . I have a somewhat "devils advocate" attitude on alot of subject matters and have been known to vocally express them in the past. I am glad that Jan has posted her comments and I'm glad that once again a notice posted by myself has promoted such a large amount of discussion. After all that is what it is all about. Like the otherday when I posted the three questions about overdrives tyres etc. That was done 'cos there was such little stuff around and they were questions that I thought I knew the answer too, but found out that at least one i did not know that well. I enjoy reading all the goings on on technical subjects such as the ongoing subject of starter removal methods. I advocate one round from a Carl Gustav at about 50 yds should remove the problem along with the vehcile aswell! Sorry, my sense of humour again. ok, well I have a ton of brass bits to polish up now so I'll push off and sit back and see what response we get this time! Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada 613 738 7880 -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 09:53:15 1994
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:45:23 -0400
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Dixon writes:
> We have one chap who has flat towed his Series I to the Birthday
> Party for years. He is about 450 miles away and his Land Rover has
> never had any problems from the towing. Another option... :-)
> Ottawa is about an hour up highway 16 from the US border.
not so sure my other car (which will continue to go unidentified so's I don't
lose the respect of any newcomers.....) can tow Nige guy.
> sticky/mushy/crunchy/jammy feel to it (I do, promise) then the likely cause
> is a nearly shot clutch.....springs/pressure plate being the most likely
> cause. Nigel does have this persistant problem with clutch judder-which I
> used to attribute to my three of four busted motor mounts, until I replace
> them, and then attributed to worn out U-joints, which I haven't replaced
> yet, but now..........a clutch job seems imminent.
> Quite the story! However, three busted engine mounts? They are
> quick and easy to replace. All you need is a floor jack to lift
> the engine, then gearbox, to get the old out and the new in. Of
> course, there was one former OVLR member who arrived for the
> off-road stuff with his engine & gearbox chained to the frame...
> U-joints are also pretty easy to replace. You could get all of
> this done in an afternoon without any problem.
opps, that was a typo. it should have read "...three of four busted motor
mounts, until I replaceD them" (time for a new keyboard). U-joints still
need work, though.........
> (how long does it take to do a clutch job in canada, aye?)
>Hmmm, how long in Canada? I
wonder if I could get away with saying shorter than in the US...
:-)
you have before! *:O Sometimes I wonder if you guys measure time in Celcius
as well! Your three minute fuel pump job took over an hour down here-
granted, most of that time was fumbling with the new diaphram, struggling to
get it reinstalled.........
Ray Harder writes:
>LULU also has the clutch judder's but only when it gets hot out.
>And that time of year is approaching. The motor mounts were
>good (but old and used) and the u-joints had no wiggle when I
>dropped in the motor about 18 months ago. I thought it might
>be oil on the clutch. What does cause clutch judder and why
>would it be related to hot temperature and operating conditions?
busted mounts and shabby U-joints can give the "feeling" of clutch
judder, and surely accetuate a worn clutch. Oil? Guess that could
do it, too, and you'd probably get noticable clutch slippage as
well. I suspect a severely worn friction plate, a warped pressure
plate, or beat clutch springs could be primary suspects. Dunno about
this summertime only problem, though. (the rover workshop manual
lists a number of symptoms/solutions to clutch problems-none for mine,
however.)
rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 10:54:05 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Re: "From" addresses on LRO mail To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:44:08 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404122236.AA14168@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu" at Apr 12, 94 3:36 pm Status: RO ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu said: > It takes more programming. A friend of mine set up a mail list which > changed all of the From: lines. All went well until one of the machines on > the distribution list went down. Whereupon the mail to the machine was marked > return to sender and a positive feedback sequence was formed. In our case, > ... > So if we reprogram our mailing list. The keeper of the list should > figure out a way to filter out bounced mail. Agreed. I note that none of the other automotive lists I am on which do the auto "From:" line editing have a problem with bounces, so there is apparently list software already out there that deals competently with this problem. Having never run a mail list myself, I don't know how tough it is to address this problem from scratch. It would certainly be more work than leaving it alone, but I think there would be a significant benefit to the list if it were to be attempted. Regarding the other problem raised (not knowing who posted what, if the "From:" line always says "lro@stratus.com": the z-car list auto appends a "Really-From:" line with the real poster's address to the end of every message. I can't recall right off hand what the other lists do. An alternative to changing the "From:" line that I have also seen used is to simply add a "Reply-To:" line. Thus the from line still shows the original poster, but "replys" are routed to the list. This may be a better solution than changing the original "From:" line. (Also, the datsun-roadsters list does *not* autochange the "From:" line like I claimed earlier (I think), just to set that record straight, so lro is not alone in how we currently handle things). Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 13:26:21 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 13:16:49 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Rover Web Status: RO Announcing - Rover Web For those with access to a web browser like Mosaic try connecting to the following - http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 It is important to use port 1500 as the normal port 80 will connect you to a more mundane web. Nothing really exciting here I just took a few moments (okay hours) to put some of the LRO stuff on this web - the FAQ and the supplier list. The formating is not always great - but not bad. I'll leave this server running as long as I can but it will be the first things to go when space or cycles gets tight. Best - Greg
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 13:26:21 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 13:16:49 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Rover Web Status: RO Announcing - Rover Web For those with access to a web browser like Mosaic try connecting to the following - http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 It is important to use port 1500 as the normal port 80 will connect you to a more mundane web. Nothing really exciting here I just took a few moments (okay hours) to put some of the LRO stuff on this web - the FAQ and the supplier list. The formating is not always great - but not bad. I'll leave this server running as long as I can but it will be the first things to go when space or cycles gets tight. Best - Greg
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 13:48:59 1994
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 14:05:32 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Suppliers
Status: RO
Though relatively new to the 'net (several months now), I believe that the
original purpose was the *non-commercial* exchange of information and
ideas, and I would hate to think that the presence of a supplier
(especially a lurking one taking notes) would have some potentially
negative ramifications. Perhaps it would be best to adopt a 3 Musketeers
type of position - that is - "all for one," or in this case, all the
suppliers, or none.
I think that TerriAnn is on the right track...we would have to have some
form of control here...no commercialization or list-wide advertising (buy
from me! such a deal!) and as mildly amusing as flame-wars can be,
immediate account cancelation for any supplier slamming another (i.e.,"XYZ
Co. sells substandard parts....").
Regarding a possible programming change in the "from" command, Ben Smith at
CalTech mentioned a positive feedback loop that was created by an
undeliverable message, and how it flooded their net. Isn't this similar to
the infamous Internet "worm" of a few years ago, in that it made as many
connections as possible? The only difference is that but two machines were
bouncing messages back and forth, rather than hundreds (or thousands). The
cardinal rule of Roverin' has always been "if it ain't broke, don't fix
it." Let's keep the status quo for a while, and use the anon forwader that
Dixon described if one needs to criticise a supplier.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 14:03:52 1994
From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon)
Date: 13 Apr 94 18:29:50 GMT
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Message-Service: mail
Subject: Watches & Stuff
Content-Type: Text
Status: RO
Recently I saw an ad in LRO from John Craddock for a Land Rover watch. Being
the Land Rover sicko that I am I knew I just had to have it and placed an
order for it and a few other items to make the order worthwhile:
RTC6890 Roller Ball Pen (2) L11.74
STC8720 Land Rover Watch L33.62
JC1024 Land Rover Tie Slide Gold L 2.55
JC1024 Land Rover Tie Slide Green L 2.55
JC1016 "I Only Have Eyes For" Badge L .84
Shipping (Air) L10.00
Total L61.30
L61.30 X 1.5 = $91.95 US
The pens are OK. They are white plastic Parker Vector Rollers with the Land
Rover badge in green and gold on the side. A little expensive for a pen but
then again it's a "Land Rover" pen.
The watch is pretty neat. It has a green leather band and a green face with
the Land Rover emblem on the face. It is somewhat stylized and more difficult
to read than some but it does have a calendar and an alarm. Despite the funky
hands it is a good looking watch.
The tie slides are OK, but I should have stuck with the green one and skipped
the other. The part numbers were the same on the invoice.
The badge has a color drawing of a Land Rover with clear plastic eyes glued to
it that roll when you move it. Pretty funny. It took about 8 days to get
here.
That's all for now.
Bill Maloney
88 IIA & 109 Wagon
W-201 428-3491
H-201 835-1796
wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com
AT&T Rm. CC24
4 Woodhollow Rd.
Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 13 14:57:18 1994 Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:18:04 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Suppliers Status: RO I have, over the years, talked to most of the major parts people. My impression is that if they were on the net they would be responsible people. I do agree that they would have to act like the other indivduals that read this net. But they should be restricted from any commercial ad type stuff. I would hope that they also understood that when we as owners talk about things it is for the good of our Rovers and our personal joy of working on and driving Rovers. And that anything that would distract from that is not appreciated on the net.
>From what I have observed of the owners we are not vindictive and generally state that others experience may vary. I have not read any statements like: this place or this guy is a cheat. I for one would love to have access to people that have worked on and know Rovers better than I. I think that if RN was on the net we and they would gain via the association. RN, or other suppliers, are being invited to our house, so to speak, I would expect that they would understand that and act accordingly. Well that's my opinion. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 01:08:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: bits and pieces From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 00:19:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Howdy folks! Ive got all my gear done for the am so I'm back on line with some info for you all. I just received the first three edtions of the "new" publication Land Rover World (they dropped the Range Rover bit). Interesting but! I do not like the style of layout in as much as the articles are split and are "continueds on P94" etc. That drives me crazy, nothing more or less. They have a special running on introductory rates for subscriptions, if i can find again i'll run it tonight, if not then tommorrow. Somethign I have not seen in LRO is an advert for a mechanical replacement for a timing belt, it uses a helical gear system . Sounds so simple doesnt it, why didnt you think of it eh?!!! The company is Zeus and can be reached in the (from NA) UK on 0 11 44 392 438833 and fax 0 11 44 392 422099. their snail mail address is 8, Devon Units, Budlake Road, Marsh barto Exeter devon EX2 8PY. they list agents in Holland and the Italy only. looks a realy simple and neat idea, I have not seen a test report anywhere for this item. They it is simple to instal yourself, I guess we'll ask Dixon to try one to validate that comment! On the whole the magazine has a number of how to articles with some off road reports and some chassis welding and parst replacemnt articles. I guess that I am very biased as I have read LRO for so long now and am used to their features. By the way if you have aspirations as a writer they are crying out for stuff from this side of the pond. I have written for LRO and IOR off and on and do not want to jepardise my position. What do i mean, well, if you get published in Land Rover World dont hold your breath to EVER get published in LRO or IOR. Festamp (German SP). I think that I will be buying a subscription just to see what happens int the next year. So far they have given away two vehicles and are about to give away a third. I really feel that Like the Toyota Land Cruiser the Land Rover World name was meant to confuse people, as Land Rover's own factory publication, and an excellent one it is is also called Land Rover World but has been around for a while now. OK, the mag has fallen open at the subs page, here's the guff for 12 issues or LRW all prices in UK POUNDS NOTE 19.20 for UK and BFPO (British Forces Post Office addresses) 28.80 for overseas surface 34.40 for Europe and Eire air mail 47.20 for rest of world (does not stae means air / surface) They accept Visa MC Diners and Amex (should make Dale happy!) send to Land Rover world, subs dept, Hainault Road, little Heath, Romford, Essex, RM6 5NP, phone from NA is 0 11 44 81 597 7335 or fax to 0 11 44 81 599 5965. Note this address is NOT the EDITORIAL address which is Land Rover World Link House Magazines Ltd Dingwall Avenue Croydon CR9 2 TA phone form NA is 0 11 44 81 686 2599 or fax 0 11 44 81 781 6042 editor is Jerry Glenwright. the prices quoted abopve are a special and I dont know how long they will last. Hope this is of interest to you all. TTFN Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 12:22:42 1994
To: land-rover-owner@team.net
Subject: Rear axle check straps.
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 10:12:31 -0700
From: Mike Fredette <mfredett@ichips.intel.com>
Status: RO
Howdy all,
I've only been on the list for a month or two
and so I've been a bit reluctant to submit a question
until now.
I'm in Portland, Or. and have a 72 88" and an
89 RR for the better half to drive.
Any way, I've been preparing Quasimodo for
Doug Shipman's Northwest Challenge which is this weekend.
Doug is very well known here in the Northwest as a
slightly warped individual when it comes to Land Rovers
(but then who isn't). His offroad treks are a challenge
to say the least. Anyway this event has kind of grown
the last few years to the point now that we have about 40
Land Rovers on the Saturday run and about an equal number
Range Rovers, restored 109's, Defender 110's, ie wienies,
on the Sunday fun rally. LRO magazine is sending a reporter
to write it up, as is 4 wheeler and the local newspaper.
Mark and Andrea Letorney from RN are flying out, all in
all a good time should be had. I'll be glad to report on
the results come Mon if we survive.
Ok, enough fiddling around, on to the question.
I've been getting ready to replace the rear axle check
straps and come across a small snag. The old ones were
1. torn completely through on one side and 2. Grampa Freds
leather belt complete with braiding and lots of decorative
engraving/carving, stretched to uselessness on the other side.
The new ones I obtained from Doug Shipmans treasure trove were
intended for who knows what model as they are way too long and
different lengths. So...... how long should they be? How
far below the axle should they hang? In talking to Lanny at
RN I mentioned the possibility of leaving them off entirely
in the hopes getting as much axle travel as possible. He said
that in a severe side slope condition, that not having them
could allow the body/chassis to roll beyond the center of
gravity and over you go. My brilliant comeback was "Oh".
So any insight into the mysteries of axle check straps would
be appreciated. The Haynes manual is typically vague on such
fringe details, as is the Brooklands Manual.
Regards
Mike Fredette
mfredett@ichips.intel.com
503 696-8037
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 10:07:18 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:55:30 +0100
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:57:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Suppliers on the Mailing List
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> i really would like for RN to be able to at least lurk for a while; not
> as spys or naughty customer name takers but so they can hear more of the
> rover world than what filters in over the phone...
I can't see much of a problem trying to be name-takers as several members
are non-american subscribers :-)
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 14:26:51 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 14 Apr 94 19:17:38 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Rear Axle Check Straps Content-Type: Text Status: RO Mike, Sorry I don't have a dimension for the check straps. However, I did want to thank you for sharing the information that the lack of check straps could increase the chance of roll over. The thought had never crossed my mind. Thanks & Good Luck on the Northwest Challenge! Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 15:59:19 1994
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 16:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Rear Axle Check Straps
In-Reply-To: <199404141917.PAA00694@transfer.stratus.com>
Status: RO
>Bill Maloney writes;
>Mike,
>
>Sorry I don't have a dimension for the check straps. However, I did want to
>thank you for sharing the information that the lack of check straps could
>increase the chance of roll over. The thought had never crossed my mind.
>
>Thanks & Good Luck on the Northwest Challenge!
--------------------------------------------------
Likewise; Thanks Mike,
I thought that the check straps were for limiting the downward travel of
the axle, as when jacking up the car from one side or the other, or when
raised on a lift. I never thought of them as restraining the body during
sideward motion.
Is this the same thinking in most older british and swedish cars?
Because they seem to have very little chance of roll over.
We learn something new every day.
In another vein, I am trying out something for the footwell heat problem
for those of us without the infamous heatshield.
If it works, I'll rush to tell everyone.
If it dosen't, I won't slink away like a defeated "inventor-type"
braggart, who couldn't wait to proclaim his untried prototype.
Let's hope it works.
Later
Jon
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
"YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium
++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 16:49:34 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Rear axle check straps. To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 17:37:57 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404141712.AA21439@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at Apr 14, 94 10:12 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO >...................... So...... how long should they be? How > far below the axle should they hang? In talking to Lanny at > RN I mentioned the possibility of leaving them off entirely > in the hopes getting as much axle travel as possible. He said > that in a severe side slope condition, that not having them > could allow the body/chassis to roll beyond the center of > gravity and over you go. My brilliant comeback was "Oh". > So any insight into the mysteries of axle check straps would > be appreciated. The Haynes manual is typically vague on such > fringe details, as is the Brooklands Manual. > I, too, had the same conversation with the blokes at RN awhile ago so I ordered a pair of OEM straps. Like many of my other proposed projects this one has sat on the back burner for quite some time (are we starting to notice a trend?-hopefully I will break it someday). I took a peek at them while rummaging through one of many boxes 'o spares I've accumulated (and noticed that the one that fell out of its wrapper has started to grow little green fur on it....definately time to get them in!). If I can remember, I'll measure the fresh, unstretched, and unadult- erated set when I get home. If I remember a second time, I'll post it tomorrow. (These will be for an 88.) rd/nige (strapless at the moment, but rarely pushes his center of gravity above his limits)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 14 21:31:37 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Rear Axle Check Straps Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 11:53:49 +0930 (CST) Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404141917.PAA00694@transfer.stratus.com> from "wmalon" at Apr 14, 94 07:17:38 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 680 Status: RO Snip Snip... > that the lack of check straps could increase the chance of roll over. The > thought had never crossed my mind. Me neither and my SIII V8 never had retaining straps fitted!! I always beleived that the straps were to prevent the rear prop shaft from contacting the chassis x-member it passes through. The x-member on my V8 is open beneath the prop shaft (ie the shaft does not pass through a hole) hence the lack of retaining straps ??????? -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7392 Fax:61_8 303 7102 (EX Darwin.......)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 08:53:24 1994 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 09:44:47 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Ok. I remembered to measure the check straps, and I remembered to post the dimensions, now if I could only find the piece of paper I wrote it on!..... The strap was (this is from recollection, but I am 98% certain it is correct) 33 3/4 inches long and the distance from the outer edge to the center of the outer (i.e. top when installed) hole was 3/4 of an inch. It is as wide as the slots it fits in (on your frame, I believe this was 1 1/4 inches). This should be all you need. I was going to put mine on when I did my springs, but they weren't long enough with _fresh_ springs, and I didn't feel like loading up the bed with rocks and wood to squeeze it down. By now, I suspect they have settled enough to fit them on. rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 09:20:47 1994 Via: uk.ac.rpms; Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:08:25 +0100 Via: mpcc3; Fri, 15 Apr 94 14:11:00 GMT Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 15:10:30 BST From: mfarrall@rpms.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Checking/adjusting tappets on a TDi Discovery Cc: mfarrall@rpms.ac.uk Status: RO With the aid of a workshop manual, I've done most of the jobs listed for our Disco's 12,000 mile service. I have a couple of questions regarding the tappets to ask please. Firstly, is there some special reason why the tappets should need checking/adjusting every 12,000 miles? Previous diesel engines (admittedly Ford's) have proved to rarely require attention. The tappets on the TDi are of the screw/ securing bolt type, i.e. straight-forward to adjust. What is the best way to turn the engine over? On petrol engines, I usually whip the plugs out and push the vehicle whilst it's in top gear. Is there a trick with this diesel engine which will make my life easy? Many thanks for your wisdom. Martin Farrall
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 12:02:48 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 15 Apr 94 14:39:41 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Bad News Content-Type: Text Status: RO I spoke with Mark at ABP last night. He mentioned that Dick and Steve at this time are NOT planning to host a rally this summer. Since Rovers North will not host one either this leaves Owls Head as the only major event this year. Too bad. Also Bob Fischer has left ABP, and they are considering getting out of the resoration end of the business altogether. Bob's new number is 518 664-3226. His new shop is located in another building in the same industrial complex. ABP is referring business to him at the moment, but Bob is the one to call to schedule the work. Bob installed the rear crossmember on my 88. It took him just under 6 hours and he did a very nice job. That's all for now. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 11:10:41 1994
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 11:39:10 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Tappet adjustment
Status: RO
Disco owner Martin Farrall writes:
>Is there a trick with this diesel engine which will make my life easy?
Perhaps. Of course with the Land Rover 2.25 petrol (and diesel if you can
bench press 300#) the anachronistic statring handle was a supremely useful
tool. With these *modern* engines, there's no such animal, so perhaps you
can use a trick one of our club members, Diesel Bob, used to use when he
was feeling lazy. He would run out the winch cable, hitch it to a tree and
put the Rover in gear. Whilst sitting atop the wing (cold frothy nearby),
he would reel the vehicle in, adjusting the tappets as he went. Now if you
don't have a winch, maybe a friend or neighbor does, or you could use the
Hi-Lift or a come-along (Tirfor) instead. Slower certainly, but it
accomplishes the task at hand.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 14:43:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Armoured range rover From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 00:23:40 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO saw the news tonight from Bosnia, British diplomat / special envoy David Owen riding in a Range Rover. Did you see the rear doors, yes doors, gone the tailgate and now two doors opening sideways a la suburban style, each with washer wiper. could not see the wheels that is normally the give away on the discreetly armoured vehicles. rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 14:43:07 1994 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:35:50 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: A newbie from Boston posts. Status: RO Hello all. My name is John and I am a roverholic. I realized this about 3 years ago when I picked up my '73 SIII 88" I am just about ready to unroof for the "season" - yeah! I consider myself lucky if I can get up to the logging roads and backroads in the State O'Maine 3 times a year for FUN. I am also an active member and newsletter contributor to the Bay State Rover Owners Association. Several of us will be conducting the "Pilgramage to Mecca" in late May and attend the Annual Association of Rover Clubs Rally in the UK. I went last year and I am very much looking forward to this year's trip. Perhaps I'll meet some of you there? (Perhaps I met some of you already and don't know it yet!) The club also holds a rally at the Myles Standish State Forest (near Cape Cod) in the Fall. Last year we had a LR North America Rep bring a pre-release US Discovery, a clam bake, off roading, videos, and much comradely good fellowship. The club is going thorough a transition as the "late model" owners begin to outnumber, we, the "oldie lunatic fringe" :) I'm known by several nicknames, Lucas is on my club jacket (but my friends call me prince), TRASH man is another because I am responsible for the small but growing TRASH database (Lotus Notes) of club vehicles and vehicle related activites. TRASH stands for The Rover Aficionado Service History. Finally I hold the honorary titles of Sargent@Arms and "Keeper of the Daily Sport" (We may have a sporting clays shoot soon - as for the Daily - what say UK!?) I've just started doing a small column as Dr. Drip - I basically bring up a problem I have just had or heard about and offer a solution ala Dear Abby et al. Ta ta! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 14:46:49 1994 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 15:39:47 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Dr. Drip says... Status: RO Thought I'd inflict this on you all. Dear Dr. Drip; My landy has started acting up. When I try to start her, I have to crank and crank to no avail. I have discovered that working the priming lever for about a minute avails. I'm particularly miffed because I recently cleaned out the sediment bowl. Signed, Gasless and Grouchy in Gainesville Dear Gasless; I'd suggest you remove the sediment bowl again and check the condition of the rubber seal. Check that all the fuel hose connections are tight and the hoses are in good condition. I assume there is no obvious fuel odor. Failing that, check the carb for any leaks or cracks or if any of the vacuum caps or hoses are missing or loose then call Click and Clack and tell em the DRIP sent you. Dear Dr. Drip, I just installed new front leaf springs on my '73 Series III 88'. My rear springs are fairly new (2 years) but now with the new front springs I've got that "low in the haunches" look. The leafs are standard capacity all around - not heavyduty in front and standards in the rear. Also, I didn't tighten the leaf spring bolts until after the rover was back on the ground. My fellow roverheads point and giggle and make comments about "lowrider" "wide load" and "purple neon lights next chappy" Pray tell, shall Jeepsters be "high fiving" and "thumbs uping" me soon? What can I do? Signed, headlights too high in honolulu Dear Too High; Assuming you haven't been hauling too many coconuts and that the leaf springs are still sound I'd say either your shackles have seized or your bushings have failed. I'd advise you replace the 4 leaf bushings and the 2 frame bushings. Using a torch may be necessary removing these bushings if you don't have access to a portable press. When reinstalling the bolts and shackles, lubricate them first. Take care not to overtighten the bolts. If the condition persists, install a very large and heavy winch. (Got a problem you can't resolve? Write to Dr. Drip!) John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 14:55:05 1994
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 12:47:09 -0700
From: jet@netcom.com (J. Eric Townsend)
To: land-rover-owner@team.net
Subject: introduction..
Status: RO
(I think I have the right address.)
I'm a future LR owner, going to spend a few months checking out the
market and whatnot. My background is in air-cooled engines (BMW
motorcycles, VW cars), but I think I can figure out the confusing
radiator and whitworth bits well enough to get along. :-)
I don't own a car now, and want a LR because it'll be the opposite of
my motorcycle in many ways. (ie: one can't easily pack a snowboard on
a motorcycle.)
--
jet@netcom.com -- J. Eric Townsend -- '92 R100R: "CLACKER"
"Who opens a school door, closes a prison." -- Victor Hugo
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 17 10:46:17 1994
From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 10:37:58 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Top Down design
To: lro@stratus.com
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
X-Vms-To: LANDROVER
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Spring has arrived here in Minnesota, and so yesterday At arabasi (1971 88 IIa)
underwent the transformation from a hard-top to a no-top. NOw people say
"Wow, now you've got a really cool jeep!" (Well, not really.)
Anyway, one of my friends asked what the point of folding down the
windshield was, other than for fun. I'm sorry to say, I was at a loss.
So what is the real point of a folding front windshield?
Michael Ramage
Ramagem@carleton.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 17 14:18:19 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 15:11:35 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: No rallies? Status: RO For a bunch of years, I had wanted to attend the RN rally, but was forever prevented from doing so by that sorry state of my rover. Well, last year was the first summer post-frame-up, and I was disappointed to learn that there was to be no RN rally that summer (I had already missed the Atlantic British rally). In a desperate attempt to fulfill my waning rally fever, I went to Owl's head and found it quite disappointing... although Maine was quite nice that time of year. Maybe I'll have to drive to Utah sometime (isn't that where they have that big thing in the dessert?). -jory bell >In message <013.00599102.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> you write: >> Diesel Bob is a UPS driver, and has to mark off vacation time a year in >> advance, though he has the two weeks following Owls Head, while I can be >> more flexible in scheduling. So how about a mini-rally after Owls Head? A >> small group could either head up the coast or into the Maine backwoods...no >> real destination other than a compass point. Thoughts? Comments? > > No ABP or RN rallies really sucks. I had to miss both because I >was out here in California last summer. I'm planning to be in the east >this summer, and was hoping to get to one of the Rallys. Oh well. > Heading to whereever the compas points sounds like fun to me. > When is the Owls head rally?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 17 15:25:49 1994 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 20:17:03 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: No rallies? (not short) Status: RO Jory, What did you find disappointing about Maine/Owls Head? Was it the quality of the trail or the rally itself? I've only made the "static" display event at Owls Head and I have had a nice time chatting with fellow Roverheads. I hear Owls Head will be 4th of July weekend. (I can't go though - shucks) This Fall the BSROA will return to Myles Standish park for a weekend rally. Barring a 4-wheeling ban in the park - we'll be doing trails. I'm no expert on Standish but I don't think things will get past "medium" challenging. There is a "non-denominational" club (aka jeeps and such) the New England 4 Wheelers Club run by Rich Banfield. My rover doesn't pass safety criteria for this club (frame too ratty - no rear winch points) so I haven't gone on one of his trips but the emphasis Rich places on safety and responsiblity impressed me. (Rich is also pretty polite to us rover heads!) I would guess they only do "really hard" stuff on invitation only trips.
>From your address I assume you are in New England - have you heard about the Bay State Rover Owners Association? (Am I the first BSROA member to post here?) I'd be happy to post the BSROA/NE 4 wheel details or I can email you - I've shamed the BSROA Prez into getting on the net - He was keeping up with all the Rover offerings - with an 88", 109", 110", Range Rover, rover sedan, and Forward Control - until the 1-2 90" Discovery punch! The first summer I had the rover I zoomed up thru Costal Maine (route 1 eh), New Brunswick and upper Nova Scotia. The Bay of Fundy was a must see for me. I had the most fun in Cape Breton - not in the National Park - I think 4wheeling is a no no - but on logging roads in lower and mid-Cape. "Meat Cove" on the Northern Tip was a real trip - some great roads/trails there! Some tips - buy all the oil you'll think you'll need in the US - buy as much gas as you can in the US. I guess you should buy everything you can in the US first - Canadian prices were positively European! I wrote the article below after the ENGLAND trip last year... "He had fun fun fun till the bugs took his epidermis away..." I was SO pumped by the pilgrimage tour, that I knew I had to go off roading as soon as I got back home. I'd been up on Route 201 in Mid-Western Maine (west of very pretty Moosehead - Quebec city is about 100 miles up the road from Jackman) a couple of times before and figured I'd head back there. It is about a 6-7 hour drive from Boston but the 50 mile stretch of road between Bingham and Jackman has over a hundred side roads that are either logging roads, powerline access roads, or unmarked driveways. I camped out on clearings off of the logging roads and even heated some hot dogs (wrapped in foil) on the old engine manifold - YUM. The bugs also had something yum to eat - me. Folks, they aren't kidding about this year being especially bad for bugs. Even the really strong bug repellent, the kind that can smear and soften certain plastics, wasn't keeping them all off. I had to eat with my bug headnet on. You can bet the bathroom breaks weren't leisurely. Anyway... Many of the logging roads are clearly posted with LAND SHARE signs okaying recreational usage. Some logging roads don't have any signs saying either KEEP OUT or LAND SHARE. I've been on some of these and encountered logging personnel who usually seem too busy working to acknowledge you, I do get an occasional wave so I guess it was okay for me to be there. The logging roads are usually hardpacked dirt or rock scrabble. These go for miles. Some of the new "cut ins" can be quite challenging with very soft churned up soil. I steer clear of these in preference of certain "turnabout" areas that have a fairly steep and curvy track. Certain logging roads are intentionally blocked with boulders, logs, or dirt berms - I take the hint. Some of the roads lead to camp sites or other recreational areas. A couple of these were marked on the Maine Gazetter I picked up at the Kittery Trading Post on the way up. Topological maps were also available but I didn't want to figure out which of the dozens of maps covering Bingham to Jackman were worth getting. Since I didn't have really detailed maps, I tried to keep track of forks and turns in my head ( on my first trip I actually kept a tally on a piece of paper) but if you are in a "born free" frame of mind, you can fairly easily find a way back to a surfaced road when you're ready by using the sun, certain mountain tops, or stepping away from your rover and using the compass to determine which direction you'd like to head. The roads aren't like a maze. Primary roads are fairly easy to tell from secondary roads and dead ends are easy to spot. I've had the most fun on the powerline roads. They offered rapidly changing combinations of steepness, mud patches, and rock dodging. I got some great hi lift jack practice on one of these roads. The rain runoff had saturated the roadway without really channelling or washing it out so the road was both rocky and "squishy" I managed to make it up about 70 feet by aiming for the larger flat rocks while trying to avoid the taller pointier ones. My luck ran out just shy of a small clearing big enough to turn around in. So it was jack up the rear, slip rocks under the tires, jack down, goose it up past the turnaround, back into the turnaround, get stuck again, jack up the front, rocks under the tires, jack down and head down hill. Bah! stuck again in the spot that got churned on my way up and trying to turnaround. This time I had to jack up front, then back to get out. At the bottom of the hill, I remembered I left some dogs on the manifold. I didn't lose them, they stayed put even with all the bouncing and they were steamed to perfection. I always look diligently for Postings. Sometimes, I'll turn on to a promising unposted side road and then a couple of hundred feet up I'll see a house. (What do these people do in the winter?) I just stop and turn around. Sometimes, I pick out a sign on the way out. Unfortunately, some of these KEEP OUT signs are small, handcarved "woodsy" signs and are kinda hard to see. I can just picture some landowner asking me "Boy, which word in KEEP OUT don't you know?" I guess I could say "I'm sorry, I'm looking for a Mr. Bat Fastard, are you he?" Or perhaps my health and well-being would be best served by my looking ever more diligently for postings on the way in? John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 17 15:36:37 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Top Down design To: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 14:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01HBA1FCNEKI8WW6HF@carleton.edu> from "RAMAGEM@carleton.edu" at Apr 17, 94 10:37:58 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 758 Status: RO < Anyway, one of my friends asked what the point of folding down the < windshield was, other than for fun. I'm sorry to say, I was at a loss. < So what is the real point of a folding front windshield? Well, with Lucas-powered wipers, it's easier to wipe the bugs and mud out of your eyes than off the windshield. Seriously, though, I think the purpose was military, in imitation of the original Willys jeep: maximum field of visibility (no glare and no blind spots) and unimpeded field of fire. The Pink Panther, of course, is so encumbered with other bric-a-brac that the windshield is totally removed. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 17 18:00:27 1994
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 18:23:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: introduction
To: lro@team.net
Cc: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
Hey! I,d like to say hello to all the Land Rover Hooligans out there!
I'm stuck here at school with my VW bus and my lander is home in one
million and twelve pieces... (I am a "Non-Tradational Student"here,they
claim this is due to my advanced years,however I think that the
administration caught wind of my transportation preference....) I have
noticed a patern to land rover ownership,most people start out with
VW's,Volvo"s or BMW motorcycles....."So what" you say..... Well,I don't
know!!! I felt I had to say something! Perhaps an informal poll could be
taken and we might learn something (and I could apply for extra credit
in Psych class!) I am Going to the Nationals in England and would like to
contact others here or there that I can exchange info with.
Also, I'm soooo upset withthe lack of rallies here on the east coast that
I am planning to go to the event in CO. Any takers for a"road trip"?
Convoy from NY TO CO in a DIESEL 109 sw ??????? We have the 109 and a 101FC
going so far..... I wonder if the 101 will be able to keep up.....
'Nuff said please respond to any of this at this adress or
Steven M. Denis
211 S.2nd St.
Fulton,NY 13069
see ya,bye
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 04:26:22 1994
From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills)
Subject: More Disco in the news
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 03:17:55 -0600 (MDT)
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 805
Status: RO
Here's the latest:
Fortson, Ed.
"Land Rover Discovery: a new big cat in the sport/utility
jungle"
Petersen's 4-wheel & off-road
17:5 (May 1994)
p. 86-89
It is immediately preceded by 2-page BF Goodrich advert:
"We make detires under Defenders".
Red Noland's Land Rover Colorado Springs, named dealer of the year,
received what may be one of the first shipments of Discos in the US
West last week. Members of the Solihull Society had the privilege of
test driving one at their monthly meeting on Tuesday. Red Noland
imaginatively mounted a display of Rover products at the Cheyenne
Mountain zoo on Saturday (the "only mountain zoo in America").
T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu
University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 04:48:56 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Top Down To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 10:38:43 BST Status: RO I dont think the folding windshield had much to do with military requirements,since the vehicle was intended for agricultural use. Having said that,though,it may well have been a hangover from the jeep.If you wanted to carry lengthy items,such as fence rails etc in an 80" S1,such items could be loaded lengthwise with the screen down.Also,you get better visibility in fog with the screen flat. Particularly after dark.I know,I've done it.Comforatable it isnt, but you *can* see better.And in the days I'm talking about we had *real* fogs here,to the point where you literally couldnt see the end of the bonnet of a 1932 MG Midget,on which the screen folded flat,which is why I know. It also has to be remembered that the S1 was pretty much pre-war technology,and over here almost any soft top vehicle had a hinged screen,with the wiper motor bolted to the *top* of the screen on the driver's side,with a connecting rod from driver's wiper arm to the other one.Saloon (sedan?) cars had a little crank in the middle of the lower screen rail by means of which the screen could be opened (hinged at the top)in summer,for ventilation.Real flies in the teeth stuff.Also the original S1 didnt have the dash vents. Of course post war hinge screens went out of use,but the Land Rover *was* a utility vehicle,and had flat screen glass so it kept the feature. Once the company started to fit "civilised" wiper arrangements,with a single motor,the feature became of little use,practically,since as far as I can see,to fold the screen down,you would first have to take the wiper arms off.OK in somewhere like Oz,where,presumably there are long peroids where rain can be considered a minor risk to say the least,but a fat lot of good here,where three weeks of dry weather in summer causes water companies to howl "drought" and ban the use of hosepipes. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 09:03:00 1994 Subject: Re: Dr. Drip says... To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 13:35:35 NZT From: Hugh Grierson <hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <199404151539.PAA06742@zork.tiac.net>; from "John Hong" at Apr 15, 94 3:39 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 597 Status: RO > When reinstalling the bolts and > shackles, lubricate them first. Take care not to overtighten the bolts. Hmm, I've just refitted my springs (the reconditioned springs and new bushes have really improved the drive of the old beast - less body roll, straight-line braking, less road noise,...), so anyway this prompts me to ask: - does lubricating the bolts & shackles really matter? Graphite grease? The local dealer (Forward Specs) said don't bother, so I didn't. I suppose I could regrease them all now if I had to. - how tight is too tight for the bolts, is there a nominated torque?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 16:19:35 1994
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 16:47:22 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: No rallies?
Status: RO
Now for something completely different....
Too bad that ABP and RN are not planning any rallies...several of us in
ROAV and been swapping events...ABP one year and RN the next. Down here in
east Virginia, we are a long way away: ABP is exactly 12 hours north, RN is
18.
Diesel Bob and myself had been considering the Owl's Head rally as well as
the National in Colorado. Unfortunately, the National will take almost a
week of to-fro travel...at least three days solid each way.
Diesel Bob is a UPS driver, and has to mark off vacation time a year in
advance, though he has the two weeks following Owls Head, while I can be
more flexible in scheduling. So how about a mini-rally after Owls Head? A
small group could either head up the coast or into the Maine backwoods...no
real destination other than a compass point. Thoughts? Comments?
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 15 16:29:13 1994
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: "64 88 wag.for sale
To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 17:23:11 EDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <khfj2Ue00WBL05dl0Y@andrew.cmu.edu>; from "Jon Humphrey" at Apr 15, 94 3:53 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1]
Status: RO
> ,.________________.
> /~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~}
> / // } } "67-109"
> []]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP
> []]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============|
> ____=========_____------| | |
> | |/|@) (@| | | | |
> | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ |
> | |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ |
> |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_||
> |___________________|[ } |[ ]
> \ / \ \ / \\ }
> ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~
>
WOW! ASCII art in perspective! VERY nice.
rd/nige (he wants a pickup brother, now!)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 16 00:23:34 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: No rallies?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Apr 94 16:47:22 PDT."
<013.00599102.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 22:16:28 PDT
Status: RO
In message <013.00599102.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> you write:
> Diesel Bob is a UPS driver, and has to mark off vacation time a year in
> advance, though he has the two weeks following Owls Head, while I can be
> more flexible in scheduling. So how about a mini-rally after Owls Head? A
> small group could either head up the coast or into the Maine backwoods...no
> real destination other than a compass point. Thoughts? Comments?
No ABP or RN rallies really sucks. I had to miss both because I
was out here in California last summer. I'm planning to be in the east
this summer, and was hoping to get to one of the Rallys. Oh well.
Heading to whereever the compas points sounds like fun to me.
When is the Owls head rally?
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 16 00:33:14 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: No Rallies
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Apr 94 22:16:28 PDT."
<9404160522.AA14531@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 22:27:00 PDT
Status: RO
> In message <013.00599102.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> you write:
> > Diesel Bob is a UPS driver, and has to mark off vacation time a year in
> > advance, though he has the two weeks following Owls Head, while I can be
> > more flexible in scheduling. So how about a mini-rally after Owls Head? A
> > small group could either head up the coast or into the Maine backwoods...no
> > real destination other than a compass point. Thoughts? Comments?
>
> No ABP or RN rallies really sucks. I had to miss both because I
> was out here in California last summer. I'm planning to be in the east
> this summer, and was hoping to get to one of the Rallys. Oh well.
> Heading to whereever the compas points sounds like fun to me.
> When is the Owls head rally?
>
> Benjamin Smith
> ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
>
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 10:27:37 1994
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 10:40:04 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Owls Head Rally
Status: RO
The "DownEast VI" Land Rover Rally is being held over the Fourth of July
weekend. There isn't a road/off-road drive as such, just a static display
at the Owls Head Transportation Museum on Sunday the 3rd; last year, there
were 60+ Rovers. (Owls Head is 6-8 miles from Camden, Maine for those
digging out the maps.) The rally is part of a larger gathering that
includes an air show and other events on the museum grounds (an airfield).
However, there will be a beach-front barbeque the night before. Myles
Murphy, the event organizer, is urging all to camp at one campground 7 or
so miles north of Camden, though its name escapes me at present. Rovers
North, British Rovers and maybe ABP will sent detachments to the event.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 09:27:48 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:49:08 +0100
To: lro@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 14:52:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Top Down design
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> Anyway, one of my friends asked what the point of folding down the
> windshield was, other than for fun. I'm sorry to say, I was at a loss.
> So what is the real point of a folding front windshield?
Doesn't it have something to do with aerodynamics -- it cuts down the
frontage quite a bit :-)
No - I agree that it's probably somethig to do with increased visibility.
lots of tractors had no (or removable) cabs until laws were passed to increase
the safety of tractors.
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 10:39:44 1994 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" <SMOORE@ACC.ROANOKE.EDU> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: top down reply Status: RO Hello everyone! Michael Ramage asked about the purpose of the folding windshield on the Land Rover. As I recall from every rover owners favorite movie "The God's Must Be Crazy" the folding windshield was utilized to enable the "antichrist" to get under some low limbs in a jungle. Without the top or windshield, the rover is fairly low and if you remember to duck your head you can get under some low things. As for military purposes, I don't know. I used the folding feature of the windshield of an old jeep (yuck!) which I once had once in a while for clearance purposes. It worked quite well. Hope this helps. Later. Stuart H. Moore Roanoke College Salem, Virginia
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 11:32:09 1994
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 09:19:05 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, lro@team.net, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU
Subject: Re: introduction
Status: RO
In message <Pine.3.05.9404171841.B6443-b100000@gidney.oswego.edu> Steven M Denis
writes:
> Hey! I,d like to say hello to all the Land Rover Hooligans out there!
> I'm stuck here at school with my VW bus and my lander is home in one
> million and twelve pieces... (I am a "Non-Tradational Student"here,they
> claim this is due to my advanced years,however I think that the
> administration caught wind of my transportation preference....) I have
> noticed a patern to land rover ownership,most people start out with
> VW's,Volvo"s or BMW motorcycles....."So what" you say..... Well,I don't
> know!!! I felt I had to say something! Perhaps an informal poll could be
> taken and we might learn something (and I could apply for extra credit
> in Psych class!)
SNIP
>
> Steven M. Denis
> 211 S.2nd St.
> Fulton,NY 13069
> see ya,bye
>
>
Gee, I sold a 6 month old Toyota Cilica to purchase my first Land Rover in '76
('69 88, AKA Red Rover).
Can't say I ever had a Volvo but I had a SAAB commute car (bought it about 3
years afterI purchased the green Rover (109 pickup). But after 4 or 5 years of
fighting Bosh electrical problems & noticing that I wasn't having problems in
the Land Rover or the TR3, I offed the Saab and replaced it with an MGBGT.
Land Rover events? WHo needs an organized rally? I just top off the fluids,
load the dog, camping gear & cameras.. Maps, & intended destination optional
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 11:53:05 1994 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 12:43:29 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: Owls Head Rally Status: RO Sandy, Have you seen a printed announcement of this? A week ago Saturday, I was talking with Ted Howard, proprietor of Howard's Garage ( or something like that, I forget his official name ). Ted's two main business objectives are service and restoration of Land Rovers (and Rovers) and Volvos, with occasional antique American cars for good measure. Ted's garage is in Warren, Maine, about fifteen miles from Owls Head. Ted told me he wasn't sure whether Miles Murphy was involved in the Downeast rally this year, and he was going to have Trevor Hunt mail me the particulars. Ted did say, however, that the Downeast rally was scheduled for the weekend of June 25th, 26th. For some reason, there was no announcement in the winter edition of the _Aluminum_Workhorse_. As soon as I hear from Trevor, I'll post what he says. Ted was quite sure of the last weekend in June date, though. Howard's Garage is the current residence, byt the way, of my Series I 107" Station Wagon kit. It is also the permanent residence of what's left of my 1966 Rover 2000TC, done in by the ravages of winter driving in the brine solution that covers the roads in Maine. >The "DownEast VI" Land Rover Rally is being held over the Fourth of July >weekend. There isn't a road/off-road drive as such, just a static display >at the Owls Head Transportation Museum on Sunday the 3rd; last year, there >were 60+ Rovers. (Owls Head is 6-8 miles from Camden, Maine for those >digging out the maps.) The rally is part of a larger gathering that >includes an air show and other events on the museum grounds (an airfield). >However, there will be a beach-front barbeque the night before. Myles >Murphy, the event organizer, is urging all to camp at one campground 7 or >so miles north of Camden, though its name escapes me at present. Rovers >North, British Rovers and maybe ABP will sent detachments to the event. > Steve <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <---------------------------------------------------------->
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 12:20:50 1994 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 17:09:04 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: lro@team.net Subject: New to list Status: RO Hi, im a prospective Range Rover owner and would like to post some questions to the list. I'm currently shopping for a 4 door 5gear '84-'86 Range Rover in Iceland. Im not new to 4 weeling and currently own a '85 Dodge Ramcharger. I would like a Defender 110 but there are not many used Defenders here in Iceland so i'm villing to settle for second best. I'm converting to Rover because i like the more sophisticated offroad quality's and of course the best suspension available for bad gravel roads. I test-drove a '85 today, that was in a reasonably good shape, it's got 120.000km on the clock, door hinges and tailgate showing its age but otherwice looking quite sound. The only thing that bugged me was that the shifting into 2nd gear was quite difficult and it jumped out of low. Does anybody have some experience with the 5gear box + transfer case, what should I look for? I dont want to have to rebuild the gearbox and transfer case right away. I know that on the older Range Rovers there was a problem regarding lubrication of the camshaft, is this still a problem in the '85 V8's. Best regards Kjartan Bergsson Iceland kjartan@ejs.is
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 13:04:05 1994
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 13:29:26 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Springs/shackles
Status: RO
Hugh Grierson writes:
>-how tight is too tight for the bolts, is there a nominated torque?
The important thing is not to over-tighten the bolts which will prevent the
springs from rebounding, leading to premature failure. The threaded
shackle plate is the *primary* fixing...the nylock nut is just there for
security. There should be 1/16" of clearance between the spring/frame
bushing and the shackle plate, with the nylock nut tightened down onto the
plate afterwards. A copper- or aluminum- based anti-sieze grease is best.
Okay - here's another "get back" roadside repair technique I'm going to
experiment with: Welding with batteries. Heard of a technique to make
weld repairs using three batteries wired in series, thus making a 36+ volt
direct current welder; you're supposed to use 6013 (DC) welding rods. I've
got three deep-cycle boat batteries on the floor in the garage, so I'm
going to experiment (some DC welds work best with a negative electrode
rather than a positive).
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 13:39:08 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Springs/shackles To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 14:32:16 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00609429.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at Apr 18, 94 1:29 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Sandy Grice writes: (in responce to a previous msg) > > The important thing is not to over-tighten the bolts which will prevent the > springs from rebounding, leading to premature failure. The threaded > shackle plate is the *primary* fixing...the nylock nut is just there for > security. There should be 1/16" of clearance between the spring/frame > bushing and the shackle plate, with the nylock nut tightened down onto the > plate afterwards. A copper- or aluminum- based anti-sieze grease is best. > ahhhh, this is leading to the answer of a question I have posted several times without response. Should this threaded shackle plate be tightened (against the frame) or should it be free to pivot? I suspect the latter, since the nylock is there (to hold it in place, as a lock-nut against the threaded shackle), and since this would allow for spring rebounding. If the springs are fresh, they won't "ground out" on the frame if this shackle is permitted to pivot. I also sometimes wonder if this (overtightened shackles) may be one reason why so many of us need kidney belts when we drive our friends. rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 15:35:55 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 16:27:33 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: introduction Status: RO >Hey! I,d like to say hello to all the Land Rover Hooligans out there! >I'm stuck here at school with my VW bus and my lander is home in one >million and twelve pieces... (I am a "Non-Tradational Student"here,they >claim this is due to my advanced years,however I think that the >administration caught wind of my transportation preference....) I have >noticed a patern to land rover ownership,most people start out with >VW's,Volvo"s or BMW motorcycles....."So what" you say..... Well,I don't >know!!! I felt I had to say something! Perhaps an informal poll could be >taken and we might learn something (and I could apply for extra credit >in Psych class!) I am Going to the Nationals in England and would like to >contact others here or there that I can exchange info with. > Also, I'm soooo upset withthe lack of rallies here on the east coast that >I am planning to go to the event in CO. Any takers for a"road trip"? >Convoy from NY TO CO in a DIESEL 109 sw ??????? We have the 109 and a 101FC >going so far..... I wonder if the 101 will be able to keep up..... >'Nuff said please respond to any of this at this adress or > > > Steven M. Denis > 211 S.2nd St. > Fulton,NY 13069 >see ya,bye the rover was my first vehicle (although my alternate vehicle of choice... if not of my own construction... would be a 4-door volvo 122s). when is the CO event? i've been thinking of driving there for a vacation. -jory bell ps. located another serious rattle/vibration this weekend. one of the exhaust hangers was too big (perhaps corroded... but not that old), allowing the exhaust to vibrate like a dickens... fitted a new hanger and good as new.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 19:45:39 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Suppliers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 11:20:09 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes:
> Regarding a possible programming change in the "from" command, Ben Smith at
> CalTech mentioned a positive feedback loop that was created by an
> undeliverable message, and how it flooded their net. Isn't this similar to
> the infamous Internet "worm" of a few years ago, in that it made as many
> connections as possible?
No, Morris's programme did what it was supposed to do (more or
less, he put the wrong counter in a loop which caused the problem),
while the bouncing message that Ben experienced is not that unique
an experience. I have had the same happen here a couple of times.
> Let's keep the status quo for a while, and use the anon forwader that
> Dixon described if one needs to criticise a supplier.
It will take a couple of weeks to set-up. I have to rewrite/patch
rmail to handle it properly and act as a true anon forwarder. We
wouldn't want the original message lying about anywhere, so rmail
will do its magic, blowing away the original in the process. Then
I wouldn't even have the opportunity to see who sent the original
message. I'll post the necessary info on how to use it when I get
a chance to get it going.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 19:47:07 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Another lives...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 11:29:52 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
For those interested, George Kearney's 109 pick-up left the garage
under its own steam yesterday. One more formerly dead Land Rover
is now alive and kicking, prepared to take on the swamps of
Almonte. (The rest of the day was spent removing the engine out of
a Fiero. What a useless vehicle. GM does it again...).
A per the Swamp Beast, a shipment of new wires, points, condensors,
cap, rotor, and coil has arrived from RN to go on both the SB and
the swb that I bought off of George. I gotta admit, commuting to
work in the 109 is a lot more fun than in the '79 Rabbit. I love
the space other drivers give you. The idiots with their rusted out
war wagons, who generally love to drive very aggressively against
newer, cleaner cars, see they have met their match when they must
think of tussling with the Land Rover.... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 19:45:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 17 Apr 1994 19:05:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO A while ago I suggested to a number of people on the system that if they were looking fo some toy Land Rovers that they should contact a friend of mine in england by the name of John Parker. Today I telephone him to chat abotu toys as usual. his wife informed me that John died suddenly earlier this week. Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 19:45:41 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Weekend progress From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 18 Apr 1994 11:45:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO First off, I would like to point out that any statement Dixon that Dixon will undoubtedly make about our foray into the country music scene are totally false. Installed the 120 amp alternator over the weekend. The wiring was easy. One wire goes to the positive battery terminal, the other, thin one attaches to the wire that would normally be attached to the W/L terminal of the voltage regulator. The mounting, on the other hand... The result turned out well. The pulleys were all in line and unlike some people's Rabbit, the mounting points are solid. Don't want to machine a bushing, yet keep the standard mount? I went to a hobby store and boughr brass tubing. Sleeve one inside the larger side until you have the desired fit. Instant brass bushing with no play. I did have to do some cheesy things (gulp). I did have to machine a bit off of the white metal alternator casing. It should not affect the strength too much, time will tell. Also, there are too alternator or generator mounting systems on Land Rovers. I had the awkward one where the bolt goes through the block. It is a very tight fit as it is a big alternator (wide). I am very happy with the result, but it is not for the faint of heart. Tools wich I found helpfull were a drill press and lathe. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 17:38:05 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: introduction To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 18:26:15 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9404171841.B6443-b100000@gidney.oswego.edu>; from "Steven M Denis" at Apr 17, 94 6:23 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Hey! I,d like to say hello to all the Land Rover Hooligans out there! > I'm stuck here at school with my VW bus and my lander is home in one > million and twelve pieces... (I am a "Non-Tradational Student"here,they > claim this is due to my advanced years,however I think that the > administration caught wind of my transportation preference....) I have > noticed a patern to land rover ownership,most people start out with > VW's,Volvo"s or BMW motorcycles....."So what" you say..... Well,I don't > know!!! I felt I had to say something! Perhaps an informal poll could be > taken and we might learn something (and I could apply for extra credit > in Psych class!) I am Going to the Nationals in England and would like to > contact others here or there that I can exchange info with. > Also, I'm soooo upset withthe lack of rallies here on the east coast that > I am planning to go to the event in CO. Any takers for a"road trip"? > Convoy from NY TO CO in a DIESEL 109 sw ??????? We have the 109 and a 101FC > going so far..... I wonder if the 101 will be able to keep up..... > 'Nuff said please respond to any of this at this adress or > > > Steven M. Denis > 211 S.2nd St. > Fulton,NY 13069 > see ya,bye Officially, I got my first car when I was just under a year old. Mom and Pop (aka Muddha and Dadeo, rarely used in the same breath since they're an estranged couple) bought a SII 88 soft-top (a '61 by serial #, but supposedly bought in the summer of '60) to commemorate my birth. For years (until Dadeo rolled it in '67-when da farm rig was bought) it was referred to as my car, although all I ever really did was steer it from the lap of a parent now and then. I was the third in an unplanned series of five snotnosed kids, and by then the 'rents decided they needed a bigger car-with lotsa room to toss kids into (not to mention pick up the slack on farm chores). They had a VW bug of late 50's vintage, and (at one time 2) MG TC's, neither of which were roomy enough for the five (soon to be seven) of us. (Actually, I do recall many a traveling moment lying face up in the "way-way-back" of the bug, and it was quite comfortable, blanket lined and such, but I think the Dah found it way too noisey OF KIDS-so he frequently opted for taking the Rover, so he didn't have to hear THEM!). Unofficially, I got my first car when I was about 13.....a '65 rambler that we painted all kinds of colors, ripped the windshield out of, and motocrossed. It was tons 'o fun....and I've got all kinds of stories to tell about it.... but it all ended the day I let some older more experienced driver take it around the track in one higher gear than we normally did and it threw the connecting rod right through the pan. Quite the sight, but it got towed away, and I spent the next 14 years riding motorcycles (Yamaha two strokes, never did own a BMW but worked at a shop for several years and got that kinda blood in me, too). My first "road worthy" car was a '74 Dodge Dart Custom with a V8 (that kicked the pants off of a friends slant 6 Valient but suffered none for gas mileage). It died a slow death.....very slow.....I've lotsa stories to tell here, too, but some other time (and probably some other net, like rec.killauto.neverdie). Nowadaze, I drive Nigel and ..... nope, nevermind. *;] rd/nige >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 18 17:36:44 1994 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 18:28:56 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO TeriAnn writes: >Maps, & intended destination optional sounds like my kind of event (/vacation)......pack it up, turn the key, don't look back 'til ya get back. Just go and figure out where you're going when you get there. coo', rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 09:54:26 1994
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 10:38:00 -0400
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Range Rover Oil leaks
Status: RO
I found this in the British Cars Digest this morning. Since I am probably
light years away from owning a Range Rover, I can't attest to the accuracy
of the information, but maybe it could help someone on our list.
Steve
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 16:27:26 +1000 (EST)
From: gavin@csis.dit.csiro.au (Gavin Walker)
Subject: Re: Range Rover oil leaks
> 1987 Range Rover oil leak ("Paul C. Zurkowski" )
> Re: 1987 Range Rover oil leak (David Huddleson)
> Vehicle: 1987 Range Rover, 107,000 miles
> Problem: Oil is leaking in the area of the intake manifold gasket,
> and pooling on the pan section of the gasket between the
> heads. The oil then runs off the back of the block.
The source of your problem is the engine flame trap. That black
cylindrical think screwed into your right hand rocker cover. These
are supposed to be cleaned every year but people don't. The effect is
that all the blowby tries to go out by the little filter on the other
rocker cover which also clogs. The gases will not be contained. They
usually escape by blowing out the intake manifold gasket end seals
(the black strips on the ends of the metal pan) and possible other
seals (like rocker covers). Cleaning or replacing your flame trap and
possible you filter will slow or stop the leak.
To stop the leak entirely you'll have to pull the manifold and
replace the end seals and probably the pan too. Last year I neglected
my flame trap and now I have oil leaking out of the pan seals and the
rocker covers (right onto the exhaust manifolds). Finally I should
have all the appropriate seals replaced this weekend.
- --
_--_|\ -|- Gavin Walker
/ \ |
\_.--.*/ <- Canberra, gavin@csis.dit.csiro.au
v Australia Phone +61-6-2750964 Fax +61-6-2576325
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 10:18:30 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 19 Apr 94 15:08:18 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Hand Cranks Content-Type: Text Status: RO The recent e-mails about hand cranks and cranking brought back memories of a woman I used to date. Cathy had 3 kids which she decided to introduce me to on the second date (talk about giving a guy a coronary on the second date) and I quickly discovered that they liked to be entertained. The next time I saw her I brought the 109 to take them out to Pizza Hut. I thought I'd be real cool and hand crank the Rover to start it. I told the kids that this is what you do when your starter packs it in when you're out in the bush. I switched on the ignition and gave the accelerator a couple of stabs and started to crank it. And crank it. And crank it. The kids shuffled around, probably wondering where their mom picked this bozo up. Cathy looked at me as though I had just arrived from Mars. Finally, exhaustion set in and I decided to use the key. All was well except for my ego. I felt about 3" tall. The evening went pretty well. It got kind of expensive as I kept giving the kids change so that they would go play video games while I necked with their mom. I didn't realize kids could make dating so complicated. On another night I brought over my copy of The Gods Must Be Crazy. The kids enjoyed some parts but it wasn't enough to hold their attention as they were in and out of the house. I was afraid they didn't get anything out of it but the next time I came over they ran around yelling "Land Rover" and imitating different scenes from the movie. I guess they did like it after all. I do have fond memories of her but 3 kids for someone who has never been around them was just too much to handle. Too bad she didn't have 3 Rovers instead. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 10:49:55 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 19 Apr 94 15:30:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Steve Dennis - Where've ya been? Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steve, Where've you been? I spoke to your "old roomate" in January and was told you had moved on with no forwarding address. I didn't know how to reach you and was hoping you were OK. Did you get the Camel videos I sent at Christmas? The 109 is just as wonderful as ever. I decided to replace a wheel cylinder, flex hose and stub housing gasket yesterday. Unfortunately, the steel line from the flex line to the junction split, and it was a bear of a time getting it removed (RH front axle). Nothing wanted to cooporate and the bracket for the junction was no longer welded to the frame. It was difficult trying to undo the line without putting stress on the other lines into the junction. It took longer to coax that line off than to remove and replace all the other stuff. Arrgh!!! My new line should arrive today. Send me your number (if you have a phone) and I'll give you a call this weekend. Or call me. Same place. Glad to see you make it on the 'net. See Ya, Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 13:55:40 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 11:25:20 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Discovery @ San Jose British Motors Status: RO San Jose British Motors just called and said they are having an open house tommorrow night for the new Discovery and Range Rover LWB. The open house has food and wine, but they have both cars in now as well. (Sorry for the broadcast of a regional item, but there are a few locals on the list) | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================|
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 14:30:42 1994 From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Discovery @ San Jose British Motors To: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 12:04:04 MDT Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404191825.LAA04639@large.cisco.com>; from "Kenton A. Hoover" at Apr 19, 94 11:25 am Status: RO Kenton, If you had let me know a few days earlier I could have come up with an excuse to have cisco fly me out........ It nice to know some else at cisco appreciates a good truck Russ Burns Cisco SE Detroit. > > San Jose British Motors just called and said they are having an open house > tommorrow night for the new Discovery and Range Rover LWB. The open house > has food and wine, but they have both cars in now as well. > > (Sorry for the broadcast of a regional item, but there are a few locals on > the list) > > > | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | > | Engineering Computer Services | | > | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | > |===========================================================================| > >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 14:29:03 1994
Date: 19 Apr 1994 12:01:07 -0700
From: Paul Anderson <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com>
Subject: Discovery Prices
Status: RO
Watch those prices on the Discovery. I have talked to two different
Land Rover dealers and gotten two different prices. All of the prices
were over sticker!
The options to be added were Auto, Duel Sunroofs and Aux Air. I was not
looking for one off the lot (willing to wait).
Dealer 1 - Force me to take the rear jump seats to get the Duel Sunroof.
Would not allow it otherwise ($800 extra). Also added $800
for floor mats and pin strips that was not wanted.
Dealer 2 - Accepted the vehicle equipped as requested, but added $1,000
premium for the pleasure to buy the vehicle from them.
Dealer 1 stated that they had to added the floor mats and pin strips to
make a profit. The MSRP has no profit built in for the dealership (Yeah,
right!). This dealer also used the sales tactic that prices will be
going up in a couple of months after the introduction period is over.
I expected this out of Dealer 1, but was very surprised by Dealer 2.
Dealer 2 would allow you to dicker the price on the Defender 110.
Hope this is not the norm for the rest of the country.
*============================================================================*
* * __________ *
* Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles *
* ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * |__Range_Rover__| are for *
* * (_) (_) Exceptional People| *
*============================================================================*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 16:51:34 1994 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 94 13:16:26 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Discovery @ San Jose British Motors Status: RO In message <199404191825.LAA04639@large.cisco.com> Kenton A. Hoover writes: > San Jose British Motors just called and said they are having an open house > tommorrow night for the new Discovery and Range Rover LWB. The open house > has food and wine, but they have both cars in now as well. > > (Sorry for the broadcast of a regional item, but there are a few locals on > the list) > > > | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | > | Engineering Computer Services | | > | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | > |===========================================================================| > > Well Maybe I jump in the 109 & wonder over to San Jose British Motors for some free food and to show them what a real Land Rover looks like - well used TeriAnn Wakeman Spell checker by Lucas twakeman@apple.com LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 19 16:02:56 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 13:53:29 -0700 To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com> From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Re: Discovery Prices Status: RO At 12:01 04/19/94 -0700, Paul Anderson wrote: >Watch those prices on the Discovery. I have talked to two different >Land Rover dealers and gotten two different prices. All of the prices >were over sticker! > >The options to be added were Auto, Duel Sunroofs and Aux Air. I was not >looking for one off the lot (willing to wait). > >Dealer 1 - Force me to take the rear jump seats to get the Duel Sunroof. > Would not allow it otherwise ($800 extra). Also added $800 > for floor mats and pin strips that was not wanted. > >Dealer 2 - Accepted the vehicle equipped as requested, but added $1,000 > premium for the pleasure to buy the vehicle from them. > >Dealer 1 stated that they had to added the floor mats and pin strips to >make a profit. The MSRP has no profit built in for the dealership (Yeah, >right!). This dealer also used the sales tactic that prices will be >going up in a couple of months after the introduction period is over. > >I expected this out of Dealer 1, but was very surprised by Dealer 2. >Dealer 2 would allow you to dicker the price on the Defender 110. > >Hope this is not the norm for the rest of the country. Don't know how much is real and how much is BS, but I have heard thru other sources that LR is not allowing very much margin in the invoice / MSRP prices. The Discovery I looked at today was ~US$29K base, marked up to ~US$35K out the door, adding dual sunroofs, mats, air and jumpseats. | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================|
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 10:52:20 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 20 Apr 94 15:28:38 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: NJ British Car Show Content-Type: Text Status: RO On Saturday, April 30, there is a British car show at Moss Motors in Dover NJ. It was pretty neat last year. The cars were interesting but what I liked most was the swap meet. It was a real treasure trove for me. I found a brand new Lucas 18ACR 45 amp alternator for $59, some Land Rover pins and literature and there was a vendor that did really nice t-shirt silk screenings of IIA and III 109 wagons. They could also do an 88 III on a hat, but I wanted tan and they were out. I hope they have it this year. Also, one vendor had Whitworth box wrench sets for $18. I thought I'd wait and pick them up on the way out but they had already sold out when I had returned. Maybe this year. Their number is 201-361-9358 if you need dirctions. That's all for now. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 11:13:04 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 11:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Homemade Soft top To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I just completed a Bimini type top for my 88 (The kind on the new 90's) It's made of black vinyl, and snaps to the front windscreen and is shock- corded in the back. The total cost was about $50 - If anyone is interested, I can post the nitty-gritty details of how I made it. On a nother note, is there a way of testing an oil pressure guage? My guage shows nothing, but the green light indicator on the speedo goes off after starting the car (My engine normally runs 20-30 psi oil - I know it's low.) And finally, has anybody had experience putting Marvel Mystery oil in the crankcase of straight in the gas tank? Thanks, Michael Ramage Ramagem@carleton.edu 1971 !!a 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 13:08:50 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 13:35:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Sender: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Reply-To: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Series 1 109 sw To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO OK Folks here is the plan... I have a 1957 107 sw. I also have a 1957 109 "regular".... The frame horns on the 107 are BAD! the frame on the 109 is very good... the rest of the rear body on the 109 has been ruined..not saveable..the frames are not the same from the seat box back, but are the same (with the the extra 2 inches concidered of course) from the seat forward. If I was to use the front frame section from the 109 along with the fenders and hood(wings and bonnet) on the 107 I could have a Series 1 109 sw!!! The advantage is that I could have the appearence of the 107 with the 2.25 (Tdi???) engine etc. .>I do not have the 2.0 engine from the 107 and no interest in rebuilding the 107 frame horns(money is tight too..) I would be interested in hearing any thing about the 107 sw with the 2.0 engine,as I get the impression that it was pretty under powered even by Rover standards If you have one or have driven one I'd like to hear from you! Also the purists out there can have some say here too,although,I'm only doing something the factory didn't have time and money to do! This would be similar to the idea of a 88' with a 6 cyl. Could have been done,but...? Comments? Questions? Violent disagreements? Steve.....
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 14:44:57 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 20 Apr 94 17:57:05 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Oil Pressure and Marvelous Mystery Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO Michael, The Smiths oil pressure gauge can be somewhat inaccurate. Mine read 50-60psi in my old engine that had distinct bearing knock at higher RPMs, then over 100psi once I installed the new engine. I know it's way off, so I just make sure the needle rises before engaging a gear. If yours did work before, and does not work now, I would be concerned. Check all electrical connections and keep an ear out for any noises. Also look into your valve cover to see if oil is making it up to the rockers. If you need to replace it, I would recomend a VDO unit. They are very accurate and reliable and are less expensive than the Smiths replacements. Also the new Smiths gauges look nothing like the old gauges, so installing a new Smiths will do nothing to preserve your Rover's "originality". Re Marvel Mystery Oil, when I was in school for my Airframe & Powerplant certificate, several of my classmates had just left aircraft maintenance in the military and said that it was standard practice to pour the oil into the carb of piston engines while running as a top cylinder lubricant and to add to fuel as well. My ex-military instructors preached the same practice. I don't know what kind of maintenance schedule they followed or but they did say that it increased the time between overhauls. Sorry I have no hard data on the subject. > >On a nother note, is there a way of testing an oil pressure guage? My >guage shows nothing, but the green light indicator on the speedo goes >off after starting the car (My engine normally runs 20-30 psi oil - I >know it's low.) > >And finally, has anybody had experience putting Marvel Mystery oil in >the crankcase of straight in the gas tank? > One product I do have experience with is Slick 50. I used it in the engine of my Volvo wagon. I recorded my gas mileage before and after adding it to the crankcase. While the Slick 50 was in the crankcase I noticed a 1/2 mpg improvement, then back to the old figure after the 3000 mile oil change. Woopee. However there was one improvement and that was that it went from burning a quart of oil every 2500 miles it is now burning no oil. A co-worker had an almost identical experience with his Plymouth. Was it worth $17.99 at K-Mart? I'm not sure at this point. That's all for now. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 14:03:14 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 14:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9404201306.C29883-b100000@gidney.oswego.edu> Status: RO
>From Steve; > >OK Folks here is the plan... I have a 1957 107 sw. I also have a 1957 109 >"regular".... The frame horns on the 107 are BAD! the frame on the 109 is >very good... the rest of the rear body on the 109 has been ruined..not >saveable..the frames are not the same from the seat box back, but are the >same (with the the extra 2 inches concidered of course) from the seat forward. >If I was to use the front frame section from the 109 along with the >fenders and hood(wings and bonnet) on the 107 I could have a Series 1 109 >sw!!! The advantage is that I could have the appearence of the 107 with [dismembered message] Steve:My feeling is "GO AHEAD" What the hell !!! You only live ONCE!!! BUT When you order parts, do you get the ones for the 108 ? Regards and good luck (just remember i'm only kidding) Jon
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:28:13 1994
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Soft top
To: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 16:14:29 EDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <01HBE9352LAA8WX1ST@carleton.edu>; from "RAMAGEM@carleton.edu" at Apr 20, 94 11:03 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1]
Status: RO
Michael Ramage wrote:
>
> I just completed a Bimini type top for my 88 (The kind on the new 90's)
> It's made of black vinyl, and snaps to the front windscreen and is shock-
> corded in the back. The total cost was about $50 - If anyone is
> interested, I can post the nitty-gritty details of how I made it.
>
go ahead, I'm interested. I am thinking of giving Nigel "a haircut"
this summer, and have yet to decide if a crew cut, complete baldness,
or a DA ("ducks ass")is right for him. Could it be done in canvas?
(Nige doesn't like unnatural fabrics.) Hoops??
On a related note, and for you folks out there sporting soft-tops.....
what do you do for seatbelts?? Shoulder-harnesses?? Nige was retro-
fitted with seatbelts by a previous owner, and has some rather handy
shoulder belts that will have to go when Nige gets his trim. These
shoulder straps are about the only worthwhile safety feature Nigel's
got, and keep me (and my trusty passenger) from worrying about loosing
my front teeth (on my windshield motors). So what is the net wisdom
on this?? Volvo seatbelts mounted on the sides of the rear bed?
On an unrelated note, I have a confession to make. Me and Nige blew
out another rear half-axle last weekend. Just a regular stop and
start at a traffic light was all it took. Ok, ok, I know....I didn't
replace them BOTH at once last time (and, yes, TeriAnn, I also didn't
do the rear diff bearings as well)......but I truely suspect that this
problem is directly due to my "grabby, not-touchy/feely" clutch judder
I've been speaking of lately. (Also consider the fact that the previous
owner blew out his main shaft in the tranny shortly before selling
da Nige). I have decided that:
a) I gotta do this clutch sooner than later
b) while I do this half axle, I will take net-advice and do the
diff bearings as well.
c) I am gonna pass on doing BOTH at once this time (the new one is
only about 6 months old), and won't be doing the ice-down either.
d) u-joints also gonna get done since they've been taking a beating.
advice, comments?
rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:40:14 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:31:29 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw Status: RO Steve, >If I was to use the front frame section from the 109 along with the >fenders and hood(wings and bonnet) on the 107 I could have a Series 1 109 >sw!!! The advantage is that I could have the appearence of the 107 with >the 2.25 (Tdi???) engine etc. I wasn't clear on which fenders and hood you were planning to use. My guess is that you would need to use the 109 fenders and hood, or you might have a 2 inch gap somewhere. But I believe the hood, and maybe the fenders, too, on the 109 are taller than on the 107. The windshields on the 107 are taller than on the 109. Maybe it won't matter much. As for the power of the 2 liter in a 107 SW: well, 0-60 might take a few minutes longer than with the 2.25, but it's really a small percentage difference, isn't it. I believe the 2 liter revs higher, but that's only based on a comment by a friend who has driven both. I have to admit that the only series 2 I have driven was diesel (NOT tdi) powered, so I don't have a direct comparison. I have driven my 107 wagon from Maine to El Salvador, and the only places I remember feeling underpowered were on the pre-55 mph interstates and on the road that goes from Mexico City to Oaxaca, As I remember it, I was in 3rd gear with my foot on the floor for about half to three-quarters of an hour. Of course I was carrying a lot of camping gear, (but very few spare parts, Terri Ann) and I have no idea if a 2.25 would have pushed a 109 wagon up that hill any better. Several people on the list have told me that the 2.25 gas engine can be fitted into the series I (after I got roasted for asking about the possibility of dropping a nice running Peugeot turbo diesel into the 107). But hey, I never got a speeding ticket driving my 107. (The Rover 2000TC is a whole other story.) Steve <--------------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources Tech Support | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <-------------------------------------------------------------->
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:54:39 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: chains From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 17:28:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I was at the tire shop today, getting a anil removed from my Cavaliers hoof as it were. While waiting I started to look at the assorted array of chains and other lifting / recovery gear on display. For a long time now when using a shortening or grab hook on chain ( this hook is the one that hooks onto the chain itself) I have noticed that no matter how carefull you are to lay it down, when the load comes on there is a good chance that it will slip off. Now I know you can tie it off with twine etc but that is not really a permanent soltuin to the problem. The chains and hooks on display were froma German company called THIELE, quite a respected name in the industry I understand. their model number TWN 0827/1 and TWN 0852/1 shortening / grab hooks come with a spring loaded pin through the body of the hook. This gives one the security that once engaged the hook will stay on the chain. It also gives an added edge in safety as one is not now tempted to have somebody hold the two together as the load comes on to it. Beleive me I have seen it done. Both hooks designs come in a range of swl's up 10,000kgs for one and 15,000 kgs for another. I bet they are pricey but what price safety........... . maybe I should show Harry the booklet, it has advice about straps aswell...... regards Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. PS they are calling for snow showers locally for Wednesday!! -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:55:54 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Bad News
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 22:01:02 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> I spoke with Mark at ABP last night. He mentioned that Dick and Steve at thi
> time are NOT planning to host a rally this summer. Since Rovers North will
> not host one either this leaves Owls Head as the only major event this year.
> Too bad.
Kinda sucks bigtime, especially as APB and RN were within
reasonable distances from Ottawa. Owl's Head Maine would be quite
the trek from here. Out of curiosity, what is the Owl's Head
gathering like? I understand that there were some 86 Land Rovers
there last year and the event is tied to a larger show. I also
understand that there is no off-roading, unlike the OVLR Birthday
Party on June 18th-19th.
I guess that besides Owl's Head, you are more or less correct that
there are no major events. One addition, though not Land Rover
specific would be the British Invasion at Stowe in late September.
OVLR is planning on bringing Land Rovers to that event, unlike last
year when two did go down, but some twenty other members cheated
and came in unmentionable vehicles. (Mine didn't make it out of
the driveway <hanging head in shame> Safety/MoT and all that).
For those that want mud and off-roading, there is always our
birthday party... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:55:46 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: A newbie from Boston posts.
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 1994 22:39:42 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) writes:
> The club is going thorough a transition as the "late model" owners begin
> to outnumber, we, the "oldie lunatic fringe" :)
"Late model" up here would be the Series III crowd. We have yet to
see the any Defender types up here.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 15:53:08 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:34:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Homemade Soft top To: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Cc: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404202016.QAA24679@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I just saw Robert Davis down in VA, and he has imported a number of military rollbars. The reason for this was that he had been "t-boned" while driving his 109 truck cab... this was the day BEFORE he was to take off the cab and go w/o the sholder harnesses.... He and I were looking at the truck as he told the story and he let the damage finish the thought... I would recommend that you might call him and find out about the set up he has ,it seems to be well thought out. Robert Davis#804-421-3504 nuff said steve...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 16:02:58 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:44:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw To: Steve MARGOLIS <sim1@cornell.edu> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404202031.QAA17121@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OK, A little clarifcation on the 107/109 project.. the 109 is a series one and it appears that the only difference in the vehicles is the length of the parts,I would use the 109 fenders and hood. the windshield and cowl are the same on both cars as is the radiator panel As this vehicle could end up as my only wheels, any power/parts avalibility would be as "plus". Series one stuff ain't falling offa' trees! 'keep ya posted steve..
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 16:03:21 1994
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 13:51:57 PDT
From: Lou Pendley <loup@SMTP.QUESTS.COM>
To: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu, dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re[2]: Homemade Soft top and Who is Nigel anyway?
Status: RO
I've heard so much about "Nigel"... is he a LR or a human?
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Homemade Soft top
Author: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com at Internet-Link
Date: 4/20/94 16:14
Michael Ramage wrote:
>
> I just completed a Bimini type top for my 88 (The kind on the new 90's)
> It's made of black vinyl, and snaps to the front windscreen and is shock-
> corded in the back. The total cost was about $50 - If anyone is
> interested, I can post the nitty-gritty details of how I made it.
>
go ahead, I'm interested. I am thinking of giving Nigel "a haircut"
this summer, and have yet to decide if a crew cut, complete baldness,
or a DA ("ducks ass")is right for him. Could it be done in canvas?
(Nige doesn't like unnatural fabrics.) Hoops??
On a related note, and for you folks out there sporting soft-tops.....
what do you do for seatbelts?? Shoulder-harnesses?? Nige was retro-
fitted with seatbelts by a previous owner, and has some rather handy
shoulder belts that will have to go when Nige gets his trim. These
shoulder straps are about the only worthwhile safety feature Nigel's
got, and keep me (and my trusty passenger) from worrying about loosing
my front teeth (on my windshield motors). So what is the net wisdom on
this?? Volvo seatbelts mounted on the sides of the rear bed?
On an unrelated note, I have a confession to make. Me and Nige blew
out another rear half-axle last weekend. Just a regular stop and
start at a traffic light was all it took. Ok, ok, I know....I didn't
replace them BOTH at once last time (and, yes, TeriAnn, I also didn't
do the rear diff bearings as well)......but I truely suspect that this
problem is directly due to my "grabby, not-touchy/feely" clutch judder
I've been speaking of lately. (Also consider the fact that the previous
owner blew out his main shaft in the tranny shortly before selling
da Nige). I have decided that:
a) I gotta do this clutch sooner than later
b) while I do this half axle, I will take net-advice and do the
diff bearings as well.
c) I am gonna pass on doing BOTH at once this time (the new one is
only about 6 months old), and won't be doing the ice-down either.
d) u-joints also gonna get done since they've been taking a beating.
advice, comments?
rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 16:16:59 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 16:59:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Sender: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Reply-To: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw To: Steve MARGOLIS <sim1@cornell.edu> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404202031.QAA17121@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO More thoughts The 2.25 engine specs out w/nearly 25% more torque... It is gutless compared to most modern engines as for any conversion,I feel that if you can make the conversion w/o "Cutting" any thing,go ahead! That "pig-out" diesel sounds good I will risk the heat to say that I installed a Nissan diesel in a early lla 88, and could do it w/o a mark on the original "baby"...had to make my own adapter plate tho... The Owls head rally is a BUST! if you want to drive to Maine to sit around in a field all day and TALK ,cool if you want to off road....well... nice air show, and it may be the only chance for rover folks to see each other all year....said I wouldn't go this year,but w/o ABP OR RN...who knows.. steve :-)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 17:08:32 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Apr 1994 17:57:10 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw Status: RO >The Owls head rally is a BUST! if you want to drive to Maine to sit around >in a field all day and TALK ,cool... if you want to off road....well... >nice air show, and it may be the only chance for rover folks to see each >other all year....said I wouldn't go this year,but w/o ABP OR RN...who knows.. i agree with that assessment of owl's head rally. i went last year and stayed for about 20 minutes and then took off to enjoy camden and the area (some nice scenic hiking). i did go to a land rover owner breakfast the morning of the rally... notwithstanding the fact that a bunch of the breakfast attendees came without rovers (too uncomfortable to drive to the rally in), i also found some of my tablemates a bit beyond eccentric. i recall one conversation discussing the details of smuggling seal meat over the US border in order to enjoy seal meat pie (which seemed distasteful not only because i am a rabid vegetarian ;) of course, among the more "eccentric" members at my table was a chap from the ottowa crowd, and HE characterised Dixon as "one strange fish." so i suppose it's all subjective/relative. -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 20 19:49:55 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 94 15:54:47 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Oil Pressure and Marvelous Mystery Stuff Status: RO snip > One product I do have experience with is Slick 50. I used it in the engine snip > Bill Maloney snip A friend gave me a dose of Slick 50. He had put it in a Chevy 6 (in his Dormobile) and thought it was almost as good as sex. I put it in my 2.25L, that, and I'm not making this up, had NO oil leaks. Soon I had oil leaks everywhere. The rear seal rubber thing was as hard as a rock, when I took it out to replace it. Had to replace the clutch disk too. I have been chasing oil leaks ever since. Could be a coincidence, but NEVER again for me. Kinda' like British brake rubber and DOT 3 if you ask me. Regards, Bill G. I use that same Lucas spell-checker that Teriann has.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 01:48:05 1994
From: landrover@aol.com
Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com>
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 01:09:26 EDT
Subject: An Introduction....
Status: RO
Greetings all..
My name is Mike Loiodice, from Gloversville, NY. I have a 1972 Series III 88"
Petrol painted "fern" camo. You may not have seen it in the woods (you're not
supposed to!).
Glad to see some familiar names in this group. It sure beats seeing people
only once or twice a year.
In response to Steve Denis's survey about common interests in vehicles, I've
never owned a motorcycle, but I have had five air-cooled VW's and three
water-cooled ones. I still have one of each ( a camper and a Rabbit) although
the camper and it's engine are on opposite ends of my yard. I also have had a
variety of foreign muck over the years - two Simca Aronde's, three Fiats, an
Opel GT, a Mercury Capri (the German Ford variety), five (count 'em) Triumph
Spitfires (I still have one) and an Audi 100LS. I actually have owned one
American car and still have it - a Pontiac Fiero GT, proving that I really do
enjoy self-abuse!!
This past winter was not kind to the Landy - it is currently resting under
the pines in the back yard with no clutch hydraulics - even after a rebuild.
Now that things are starting to warm up here I was hoping to put the canvas
back on and head out to the woods. That'll have to wait a bit.
Speaking of canvas... two winters ago I left the canvas on. This last winter
I went back to the hardtop - not for the heat - IT WASN"T ANY WARMER - just
because of the weight of the snow on the roof.
Adios... Mike Loiodice
E-MAIL landrover@aol.com
LUCAS - A hard day's work and home before Dark!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 01:06:01 1994
From: landrover@aol.com
Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com>
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 01:40:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw
Status: RO
On 04/20/94 - jory@MIT.EDU said...
----------------------------------------------------------
>i agree with that assessment of owl's head rally. i went last year >and
>stayed for about 20 minutes and then took off to enjoy camden >and the area
>(some nice scenic hiking).
>
>i did go to a land rover owner breakfast the morning of the rally...
>notwithstanding the fact that a bunch of the breakfast attendees >came
>without rovers (too uncomfortable to drive to the rally in), i also >found
>some of my tablemates a bit beyond eccentric.
A bit BEYOND eccentric??? Now wait a bit.. How can anyone who drives around
in a 20 year old (or more) drafty British truck (with a smile or maybe silly
grin) say anyone is a bit beyond eccentric??
OK, sure the seal meat it a bit much, but...
And I would have to agree with your negative view of showing up without your
Rover.. I used to hate that at Triumph club events and I found that Rover
people, for the most part, don't care about comfort.. Well hey, we're all ab
bit eccentric, afterall..
Adios Mike Loiodice
E-Mail landrover@aol.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 02:30:23 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Oil Pressure and Marvelous Mystery Stuff Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 08:23:00 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> One product I do have experience with is Slick 50. I used it in the engine This has been hacked to death on the motorcycles group. Studies ( Automobile Association among others) have shown that it does NO good, and the teflon covering it is supposed to deposit can flake away and clog oilways/filters, and cause engine damage. I wouldnt touch the stuff. Also think how hard Teflon is. How is it going to stick to loadbearing surfaces in an engine?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 03:51:05 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Seat Belts To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 9:43:14 BST Status: RO This is a little worrying..... It shouldnt make *any* diiference whether you have a hard or soft top,the seat belts stay the same.They are not,repeat *not* anchored to the top.Or shouldnt be.Mine,admittedly the original "optional extra" static lap and diagonal Irvings are anchored on the floor,to a reinforcing bracket by the seat box,and to the bulkhead behind the seat.The top omly comes into the equation when you hang them up to get out.The buckle blade hangs on a hook on the door pillar. The top is not considered to be strong enough to take the strain. To recap,the shoulder strap goes over the shoulder (where else?), down behind the seat back,and through a steel loop on top of the load bay bulkhead.The lap bit goes down to the floor in the corner formed by the seat box and aforementioned bulkhead. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 08:43:11 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Homemade Soft top and Who is Nigel anyway? To: loup@smtp.quests.com (Lou Pendley) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 9:33:33 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404201351.A02129@SMTP.QUESTS.COM>; from "Lou Pendley" at Apr 20, 94 1:51 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Nigel is a '60 SII 88 hartop, sans side windows, con tailgate and lotsa character. (ie. He is a rover, but needs a haircut anyway.) Russell Dushin is a human who currently owns Nigel (though Nige would hate to admit it-he doesn't go for this possesive relationship businesss (either)). There is, however, a human Nigel on this lro-net, but he can type, and his name always appears in the header. Sorry for the confusion. rd/Nigel (aka nige, nige-guy, da nige, Sir Nigel)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 10:18:41 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Owls Head Rally
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 09:27:49 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes:
Sorry for the delay in replies, the gateway between uunet.ca and
ocunix.on.ca has been down since last Thursday (with the exception
of one hiccup a few days ago). But...
> The "DownEast VI" Land Rover Rally is being held over the Fourth of July
> weekend. There isn't a road/off-road drive as such, just a static display
> at the Owls Head Transportation Museum on Sunday the 3rd; last year, there
> were 60+ Rovers.
I phoned the chap who runs the Owl's Head event yesterday. It is
very much a static display, especially considering that he
described people who liked to take Land Rovers off-road as "a bunch
of rednecks who were not happy until they had knocked all the trees
down and ripped the wings off of their vehicle". He stated that
there were 86 Land ROvers there last year, that RN attends, APB had
been kicked out (didn't expound on why, beyond something about
attitudes and co-operation)
> digging out the maps.) The rally is part of a larger gathering that
> includes an air show and other events on the museum grounds (an airfield).
The air show does sound interesting from Myles description. I will
see what the propoganda sheets have to say that he is sending me.
A long journey though...
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. Got your Spring newsletter. Pretty good. You should be
getting mine any day now.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 10:18:49 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Series 1 109 sw
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 09:43:59 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) writes:
> of course, among the more "eccentric" members at my table was a chap from
> the ottowa crowd, and HE characterised Dixon as "one strange fish." so i
> suppose it's all subjective/relative.
Hmmm, Fred? Massive head wound Harry? This sounds rather fun and
interesting!... <grin> This person has obviously led a sheltered
life and not met a few other OVLR people up here... :)
Come to the OVLR Birthday Party and see for yourself how we fit
Myles Murphy's "redneck" image. (It was so very tempting to pursue
that line of conversation, but decided it was better to ignore it.
Besides, wings cost too much to rip off...) Demo'ing the local
environment might be the intrepretation of some, but when one looks
at one of the main trails that OVLR uses, you wouldn't think a Land
Rover had ever been down it in the spring. The ability of the
environment to rebound is amazing.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 09:15:02 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Seat Belts To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 10:01:28 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404210843.AA03529@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Apr 21, 94 9:43 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > This is a little worrying..... > It shouldnt make *any* diiference whether you have a hard or soft > top,the seat belts stay the same.They are not,repeat *not* anchored > to the top.Or shouldnt be.Mine,admittedly the original "optional > extra" static lap and diagonal Irvings are anchored on the floor,to > a reinforcing bracket by the seat box,and to the bulkhead behind the > seat.The top omly comes into the equation when you hang them up to > get out.The buckle blade hangs on a hook on the door pillar. > The top is not considered to be strong enough to take the strain. > To recap,the shoulder strap goes over the shoulder (where else?), > down behind the seat back,and through a steel loop on top of the > load bay bulkhead.The lap bit goes down to the floor in the corner > formed by the seat box and aforementioned bulkhead. > Cheers > Mike Rooth > > Hmmm, mine attach on top via an added support that runs just behind the front doors. I have been concerned about its strength (it does appear to draw some support from the hardtop itself), and should consider moving it to the load bay bulkhead. Incidentally, I see that in the RN catalog they have a mounting bracket (no picture shown) that would appear (in words) to fit much the same as mine does......"bracket for upper mounting point, for hardtops" is what is says. Is this "steel loop" on top of the load bay bulkhead an available bit?? Can this type of shoulder strap be used on a cab top? (Not that I am considering a cab top, but I do wonder what one does in that case.....) thanks much, rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 09:44:45 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 08:31:27 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Other Vehicles Status: RO Seeing a trend regarding vehicles owned in the past I had to offer my vehicle history. I bought a 61 Bug out of highschool and drove that for 3 years. That was replaced by a used 71 VW Van with the 1600 dual port. I and the family drove Urge for almost 17 years as our only vehicle. Along the way I found a 58 Ghia with a dead Porsche 1600 in it. Sold the engine for what I paid for the whole thing. Stuck in a 40 horse and drove and rebuilt that for a bit. The Ghia was sold to pay for my first Rover. Along the way I picked up a 69 BSA 441 Victor. Rode that in Arizona a bit, but sold it when I was in the Gulf. I kept all of the VWs alive with the Idiot Book and wished I had something like it for my Rovers. Yes, I got one, then two and now three. So sue me! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 09:40:42 1994
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 07:31:35 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure and Slick 50, etc.
Status: RO
>A friend gave me a dose of Slick 50. He had put it in a Chevy 6 (in his
>Dormobile) and thought it was almost as good as sex. I put it in my 2.25L,
>that, and I'm not making this up, had NO oil leaks. Soon I had oil leaks
>everywhere.
About 15 years ago we had a "new" oil introduced here in the US called
"ARCO Graphite". It was pitch black (which made it kind of hard to tell
when your oil was dirty :-) and was supposed to have graphite in suspension.
I had a 2 litre Pinto at the time and thought what the heck. Well the results
were amazing, fuel consumption went from 25 mpg to 30 mpg, the engine started
easier, revved more freely and had noticeably more power. Approximately 5000
miles later it had eaten the overhead cam and trashed the main and rod bearings.
Seems it was so slick that none of it stayed on the parts during shutdown so
startup took a terrible toll. Now I stick to regular oil thank you.
-Pete-
* Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" *
* Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. *
* Santa Monica, CA *
* bellas@gamma.tti.com *
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 10:47:01 1994
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 11:15:02 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Seat Belts
Status: RO
The hard top does make a difference, especially if you have retro-fitted
Rover recoiling or centrifugal-locking, three point belts. These have a
shoulder-high fixing point/loop. On my '72 88 (one of the first thousand
to be built), there is a captive nut welded in place behind the fascia trim
panel adjacent to the door or "B" pillar, so someone was thinking about
this situation early on; alternatively, there is a special bracket that can
be bolted in its place. The original three-point seat belts attached to the
bulkhead, seat base and door frame. I secured the recoil mechanism to the
bulkhead top with grade 8 bolts and used the other (stock) attachment
points. Not only does the belt wind up when exiting the vehicle, but you
can lean over and retreive something from the dash bin or open the opposite
window without unhooking.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 10:55:26 1994
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 11:15:17 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Oils 'n' stuff
Status: RO
Andy Woodward writes about Teflon additives.
Slick 50 does not contain Teflon, but rather poly tetra fluoro ethelyene
polymer or PTFE. Indeed, Teflon is no-good for engines; DuPont will not
sell teflon powders for oil additives and has prosecuted (for Trademark
infringement) several unscrupulous vendors who did put the stuff in oil.
Teflon can clump and clog oil gallery passages, wheras PTFE will not. I
used Slick 50 but could not see any benefits (except to the place that sold
be the stuff-$$$): Slick 50 does best in older, large displacement engines.
However, I would reccommend DSX, a brand new PTFE compound that is
sub-micron in size, which enables it to penetrate the pores of the metal.
It was initially developed as a bore treatment for firearms. Cheaper than
Slick 50, too.
On another matter, if the Smiths' electric oil pressure gauge reads 100+,
it means a bit of stuff has gotten into the sender and is making contact,
that is, passing full voltage, i.e., 100# to the gauge. Take it off and
hose it out with WD-40. I keep a spare gauge in the dash bin; whenever the
original gauge (200,000+ miles) gets weird, I show it the replacement, and
the original promptly resumes normal operation!
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 12:42:10 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 21 Apr 94 17:30:14 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Seat Belts & Soft Tops Content-Type: Text Status: RO Russel, The seat belt on my '69 IIA 88 anchors on the "bulkhead" behind the driver's seat (or passenger seat). It is not a particularly comfortable set up but it does allow me to remove the hard top without modification to the belt assembly. The belt is the static type and appears to have been done at the factory. I hope this helps. >On a related note, and for you folks out there sporting soft-tops..... >what do you do for seatbelts?? Shoulder-harnesses?? Nige was retro- >fitted with seatbelts by a previous owner, and has some rather handy >shoulder belts that will have to go when Nige gets his trim. These >shoulder straps are about the only worthwhile safety feature Nigel's >got, and keep me (and my trusty passenger) from worrying about loosing >my front teeth (on my windshield motors). So what is the net wisdom >on this?? Volvo seatbelts mounted on the sides of the rear bed? Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 12:50:53 1994
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 13:41:53 -0401
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: lro@team.net
From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong)
Subject: Re: Oils 'n' stuff
Status: RO
(I think) Sandy Grice says:
>Andy Woodward writes about Teflon additives.
>
> Slick 50 does not contain Teflon, but rather poly tetra fluoro ethelyene
>polymer or PTFE. Indeed, Teflon is no-good for engines; DuPont will not
>sell teflon powders for oil additives and has prosecuted (for Trademark
>infringement) several unscrupulous vendors who did put the stuff in oil.
>Teflon can clump and clog oil gallery passages, wheras PTFE will not.
I'm pretty sure that Teflon just the trade name for
"polytetrafluoroethelyene or ptfe" In other words - all teflons are
ptfe's but not all ptfe's are teflons - only the ones Dupont sells.
(Others Lexan - polycarbonate GE?
Plexiglass - acrylic Rolm & Haas
Kevlar/nomex - aramid Dumpont?
I've been using TufOil for a few years - seems like DSX is very similar.
Nothing dramatic to report - tranny/diff whine seems a little better - but
it is still pretty loud! (yes I add it to diff and trans gear lube)
They advertise in NASA TechBriefs so they have to be reputable right!
In theory, this notion of submicron ptfe filling microscopic valleys in your
bearing surfaces to make the peaks "less peaky" seems valid. This
protection mechanism should really only matter during engine starting. When
the engine is off, the metal parts press together on a microscopic level -
some of these peaks contact and fuse together - when the engine starts these
peaks tear. (anyone current with this wear of materials/tribology stuff -
it has been a while for me.)
The ptfe additives are supposed to decrease the formation of these "fuse -
tear" spots. Once the engine is running, the bearing surfaces should be
separated by a thin layer of oil - the metal surfaces are NOT touching at all!
Theory is fine but I wonder what really happens when you add this stuff!
John Hong
(jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 13:21:37 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: List Services (or lack there of)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 14:12:10 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Hi Folks !
I know list administration has been a bit spotty lately, amoung other
things I've been out of the office for the last two weeks, and I'll forewarn
you response time is not going to improve any in the near future, as I've got
a few other things going on [keep reading].
I got my work permit yesterday, and made arrangements to leave on the
first of May, my email address will remain the same, other contact info
is as below.
Cheers,
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
Currently at (through May 1, 1994):
Stratus Computer, Inc.
Marlboro, Ma
Day: 508.490.6352 800.458.0042x6352
Home: 508.792.6568
e-mail: caloccia@stratus.com
>From May 3, 1994, new work address will be, future home addr is unknown.
Stratus Computer Ltd
Central House
Lampton Road
Hounslow, Middlesex, TW3 1HY, U.K.
tele: +44 81 570 4433
fax: +44 81 569 4755
e-mail: caloccia@stratus.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 13:35:52 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 21 Apr 94 17:56:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Owl's Head Content-Type: Text Status: RO Re the critiques on Owl's head, I'll give my two cents worth. I attended the year before last. There were no Land Rover activities per say but it was nice to see everybody (at least everybody who was there). ABP, BR, DAP, & RN all had representatives but not a whole lot on display. The air show was fun too but I missed all the stuff that normally goes on at APB & RN rallys. I missed last year's show but heard lots from folks that hadn't and none of it was positive. I'd share it but would rather it came from those that had been there. 10 hours for me is long trip but it may be the only thing happening this summer in the NE US. Sandy - I'd probably be game for some aftershow stuff. As for my own stuff I received the LH junction to flex line brake pipe I ordered from ABP. Unfortunately it is about 8" too short. I just discovered that there are 2 different RH pipes, one for the IIA and one for the III. Mine's a III, the pipe's a IIA, ABP only carrys one, and one size does not fit all. Arrgh! They did say to send it back for a refund but I think I'll save it for the IIA 88. I called RN to order the correct pipe which they did have. I asked if the part could go out that day but was told that UPS was expected to arrive in the next 15-45 min and due to the heavy volume of orders it would probably not make that day's shipment but that they would try. Otherwise, I would have had to spring for overnight delivery to get the part before the weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. At least it saved me from having to form brake tubing into complex shapes for another couple of nights. And it gave me an excuse to wash the 88. I also cleaned the points and lubed the distributor. What a diffenence! El Fin Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 13:40:30 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 14:32:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: List Services (or lack there of) Status: RO No complaints here Bill! WOW the UK - home turf!!!! Will we be seeing you at the National? John >Hi Folks ! > > I know list administration has been a bit spotty lately, amoung other >things I've been out of the office for the last two weeks, and I'll forewarn >you response time is not going to improve any in the near future, as I've got >a few other things going on [keep reading]. > > I got my work permit yesterday, and made arrangements to leave on the >first of May, my email address will remain the same, other contact info >is as below. > > Cheers, > --bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase > | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" > OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net > >Currently at (through May 1, 1994): > > Stratus Computer, Inc. > Marlboro, Ma > Day: 508.490.6352 800.458.0042x6352 > Home: 508.792.6568 > e-mail: caloccia@stratus.com >
>>From May 3, 1994, new work address will be, future home addr is unknown. > > Stratus Computer Ltd > Central House > Lampton Road > Hounslow, Middlesex, TW3 1HY, U.K. > tele: +44 81 570 4433 > fax: +44 81 569 4755 > e-mail: caloccia@stratus.com > > > > John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 13:41:17 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 14:32:46 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Oils 'n' stuff Status: RO i've seen these new late night commercials for non-teflon super lube thingies... notwithstanding the various claims for their products, two separate infomercials cited a US army report which found that teflon/ptfe based lubricants were useless, and that the same report recommended against their use. anyone know more about this report, or this new batch of super lubricants? (hmmm, were beginning to sound like other high traffic auto-related newsgroups/lists with this topic :-O ) of course, the military also defends the use/performance of patriot missiles... so their general technical (believe)ability is somewhat compromised... so perhaps if they say it's a bad idea, we should read that as a ringing endorsement... -jory >(I think) Sandy Grice says: > >>Andy Woodward writes about Teflon additives. >> >> Slick 50 does not contain Teflon, but rather poly tetra fluoro ethelyene >>polymer or PTFE. Indeed, Teflon is no-good for engines; DuPont will not >>sell teflon powders for oil additives and has prosecuted (for Trademark >>infringement) several unscrupulous vendors who did put the stuff in oil. >>Teflon can clump and clog oil gallery passages, wheras PTFE will not. > > >I'm pretty sure that Teflon just the trade name for > "polytetrafluoroethelyene or ptfe" In other words - all teflons are >ptfe's but not all ptfe's are teflons - only the ones Dupont sells. > >(Others Lexan - polycarbonate GE? > Plexiglass - acrylic Rolm & Haas > Kevlar/nomex - aramid Dumpont? > >I've been using TufOil for a few years - seems like DSX is very similar. >Nothing dramatic to report - tranny/diff whine seems a little better - but >it is still pretty loud! (yes I add it to diff and trans gear lube) >They advertise in NASA TechBriefs so they have to be reputable right! > >In theory, this notion of submicron ptfe filling microscopic valleys in your >bearing surfaces to make the peaks "less peaky" seems valid. This >protection mechanism should really only matter during engine starting. When >the engine is off, the metal parts press together on a microscopic level - >some of these peaks contact and fuse together - when the engine starts these >peaks tear. (anyone current with this wear of materials/tribology stuff - >it has been a while for me.) > >The ptfe additives are supposed to decrease the formation of these "fuse - >tear" spots. Once the engine is running, the bearing surfaces should be >separated by a thin layer of oil - the metal surfaces are NOT touching at all! > >Theory is fine but I wonder what really happens when you add this stuff! > > John Hong >(jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 14:17:16 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong)
Cc: lro@stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: List Services (or lack there of)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 21 Apr 94 14:32:32 EDT."
<199404211832.OAA04249@zork.tiac.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 15:08:34 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> No complaints here Bill!
thanks.
> WOW the UK - home turf!!!!
> Will we be seeing you at the National?
When and where is it ?
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 15:13:37 1994
From: K Schmidt <s20845@hp.rmc.ca>
Subject: re: Homemade Soft Tops
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 16:03:34 EDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
>
go ahead, I'm interested. I am thinking of giving Nigel "a haircut"
this summer, and have yet to decide if a crew cut, complete baldness,
or a DA ("ducks ass")is right for him. Could it be done in canvas?
(Nige doesn't like unnatural fabrics.) Hoops??
>
Though this invitation wasn't to me I thought this might be of interest...
I've made and have been using a top made out of canvas during the summer
months. I found the best canvas as far as weight and strength at an
army surplus store. I used a part of a tent which looks appropriate
on my Land Rover. The cost for the canvas was $50 (can) for a section
about 40 feet long and 7 feet wide (including a bunch of clips and hooks
attatched) The only problem that I had with the canvas was due to the
fact that it was quite thick for the machine I was using. However,
this was just a matter of not having a good machine. The canvas had
been intended for use by the military and it's really durable. (I also
made a cover for the LR for the winter... the cover was out in the
sun for the last 10 months and hasn't shown any deterioration)
For hoops I guess you could buy a bunch of steel bars, bend them and
paint them. I didn't care too much about what the bars looked like
since you couldn't see them from the outside. What I found to do the
job was some ordinary copper plumbing tubing. These bars were easy to
fit due to the many fittings (ie bends, t-junctions etc.) that are
available. Since the pipes and the fittings have to be tight for
plumbing, they stay together pretty well with only a "friction fit"
without any welding.
I hope this gives you some new ideas to consider...
have fun!
Kurt
s20845@sv1.rmc.ca
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 19:04:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 14:23:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dear All, We here have suffered from an e-mail drought of about five days now, so reading all 58 new messages takes some time an takes the fun out of it, here are some answers to some bits and pieces listed recently:- Military roll bars, excellent piece of kit, come fully galvanised but you may have to put in a hole or two plus backing plates to attach it properly. Dixon, well, I think he is about "atypical" of us OVLR folks, just wait till you join us, then you'll understand what weird means! 109 / 107 hybrid , YUK, are you a trainee butcher? Owls Head, if nothing in the way of Off Road trips is being organised, how about asking that they do so, they might bend under polite pressure. Somebody told Dixon a while back that the Camel Trophy has been an exclusive Land Rover product event since its inception, WRONG! The first Camel event used Jeeps, yep, have pictures in a magazine and article to prove it, now do you really want me to dig it out to finally put this one to rest? Folding windscreens, was this not a manual overide for the Lucas electrics, failure of power to wipers? Come to our Birthday party for some real man off roading, you'll be surprised at the terrain offered and the hospitality too. So, that is it for the minute. Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 17:28:04 1994
From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 16:14:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: soft top
To: lro@stratus.com
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
X-Vms-To: LANDROVER
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
Here's how I constructed my Soft top -
Materials
55" x 40" black vinyl (naugahyde - from little nauga birds)
10' section electrical conduit (for the hoop)
Gromet kit (from your hard ware store)
Snap Kit with screw snaps (Like a gromet kit - I got this at
a canoe supply store)
1" x 2" x 55" oak
various shock cords, bolts
Spray adhesive (if you don't have access to a sewing machine
to hem the vinyl)
I usedbolted the oak to the winscreen, recessing the bolts into the wood.
Then I screwed twelve snap grommets into the wood, evenly spaced. I hemmed
the vinyl on either end, and put twelve snaps on the fron (this looks pretty
good, and seems to be relatively stable). I bent the hoop so it was 50" at
the top, and put some bols in at the bottom so it wouldnt rattle too much.
Then I put some gromets on the back of the canvas, and shock-corded it so
that it would look good. It helps to tuck two gromets near rhe edge together,
so the vinyl "bends " over the hoop.
Total cost:
Vinyl - $20 (us)
Elec. Conduit - 3
Gromet kit 10
snaps 15
Oak - 5
etc 10
Comes to about 65 dollars, and looks really nice (if I do say so myself)
I'll be happy to supply more details to anyone who is interested further
Michael
Ramagem@carleton.edu
1971 88 IIa sans top.
PS - my Defender retractable seatbelts still come over the shoulder and work
as the shoud (I hope) They haven't been crash tested, though.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 01:21:14 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: windscreens From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 17:55:26 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just my two cents regarding the fold down window. All the parts on a Land Rover can be removed quite easily, ie doors, windows, roof, bonnet. Therefore it can fit many roles; perfect for farmers. Also, it makes the vehicle easy to manufacture. No need for critical tolerances in fitment of glass to window pillars to tops of doors, as in modern cars. To change a window in one of these, cut out old glass, put new glass in and seal. Land Rover: replace frame and window at the same time, five minute job. As I have probably said before, one of the disappointments of any convertible is the wind hits you from behind. At relatively low speed, fold the windscreen down and the feeling is marvellous. At higher speeds, it feels like you're in a centrifuge. Those in the north-eastern states should try to make the OVLR Birthday and see how Rovers are supposed to be driven. Just sign the release waiver (to not hold the club responsible), hand it to "Lefty", and away we go! Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 01:20:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: early toys From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 18:03:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Cars that I have owned. First was the olds Dynamic 88, 1966. 425cu in and a 6 footer, such as myself could lie flat comfortably across the seats. Had carried 10 people once. No seat belts. 1984 Honda CRX. Great car, sold to buy second LR and spending money. 1976 German Ford Capri 2.8l 5 speed, air conditioned. Was white, I painted corvette red, looked great at night or in the rain. 1973 Series III. Now left with 68 Diesel IIA. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From thelist@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Thu Apr 21 18:07:12 1994 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 09:01:31 +1000 Reply-To: thelist@gu.edu.au Sender: thelist@gu.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Mark Hessling <M.Hessling@itc.gu.edu.au> To: Multiple recipients of list <thelist@gu.edu.au> Subject: Re: ibm rs/6000 Status: RO Frank, At this point in time I am sorry to say that THE does not support colour. The colour support in the RS6000 curses library is unique to the RS6000 and I haven't had a chance to finish the port. Anyone with colour curses experience on RS6000 is more than welcome to give me some help :-) As far as the remainder of the request is concerned, THE and REXX on RS6000, I'm sure you will find someone who has it available. Cheers, Mark
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 20:48:54 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 20:08:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: RE: 107/109 To: Robin Craig <rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <oi85kc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I'll wager that if I went ahead and did this that you would never notice w/o lifting the bonnet......I must reinforce the notion that the 109 IS a Series one!!!! looks the same, 2" longer fenders... I now have two "dead" vehicles and this would put one back on the road! :-) steve...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 21 22:23:46 1994 From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com> Subject: Range ROver Bandwidth To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 21 Apr 94 19:15:57 MDT Status: RO I can't help to notice the lack of Range Rover traffic in this group, so I figured I would start some.. First, I think we have this BMW thing all wrong, Look at the fun you can have. Just honk and wave at every beemer you see. Most of them will probably sell their beemers from the embarrassment of having the drivers of 20 year old trucks honking, and waving. Funny everytime I honk at a fellow Range Rover owner they just give me strange look also.... After Two years, I think I have all the loose hardware bolted down, and secured with loctite. I can't figure how you can take a good off road vehicle and accessories it with wimpy junk. I am still looking for a rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle) So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know. Since getting stuck a couple of time, I invested in a winch. It does work, as I have yet to get stuck. I also found some neat oil the other day. Open wire, and Gear oil. by lubermate. I tried some on a small section of my winch cable to see if it would attract dirt. After two weeks of dirt roads it was still clean, so I treated the whole cable. Great Stuff, actually repels dirt. If fact after I treated the cable I found it would actually hover 3 inches above the ground. I also found the brush guard that comes with the winch good for moving shopping cards. You should see the looks when you compress one against a brick wall. Well hopfully I will run into some of you at the National Land Rover Rally in Colorado. Russ Burns
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 03:26:30 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Seat Belts To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 9:16:00 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <no.id>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Apr 21, 94 10:01 am Status: RO Two very good questions,Russ.......Neither of which I know the answer to:-) Some sort of bulkhead mounting must surely be available,if only to cope with ragtop situations.But what you do with a Truck Cab,I havent a clue.Its in the manual tho' I think,so I'll look it up. Cheers Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 03:28:24 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 22 Apr 1994 09:18:58 +0100
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
To: lro@stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 09:22:35 GMT
Subject: Re: List Services (or lack there of)
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> > Will we be seeing you at the National?
>
>
> When and where is it ?
National Off Road & 4 Wheel Drive Show '94 -- in association with LRW
July 16 & 17 at West Wycombe Park Estate, Buckinghamshire.
(Off junction 5 of the M40)
Events include:
Public Off-road route
The Manufacturers Demonstartion Route
Quads & Honda Pilots
King of the Hill
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 05:37:26 1994
Subject: Re: Range ROver Bandwidth
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 10:39:55 +0100 (BST)
From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <9404220215.AA06808@ash.cisco.com> from "Russell Burns" at Apr 21, 94 07:15:57 pm
Organization: Apricot Computers Limited
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1135
Status: RO
Russell Burns writes:
>
[...]
>
> After Two years, I think I have all the loose hardware bolted down, and
> secured with loctite. I can't figure how you can take a good off road
> vehicle and accessories it with wimpy junk. I am still looking for a
> rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock
> rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way
> to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle)
> So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know.
>
ARB do (or certainly did) a rear bumper that sounds like it will meet
your needs. Don't know where you would source them locally, but ARB
products are supplied by David Bowyer (Crediton, Deven) in the UK.
hope this helps.
Regards
Rick
--
_ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171
' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123
/--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park
/ \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk
Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 08:14:23 1994 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Bumpers (was RR b/w) To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 14:00:11 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404221039.aa19913@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at Apr 22, 94 10:39 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > I am still looking for a > > rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock > > rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way > > to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle) > > So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know. > > > ARB do (or certainly did) a rear bumper that sounds like it will meet > your needs. Don't know where you would source them locally, but ARB > products are supplied by David Bowyer (Crediton, Deven) in the UK. > hope this helps. I've been looking for such Hi-Liftable bumpers for a few months. ARB's are way too expensive. Having them made is quite costly too. Making them myself is OK as far as welding goes, but not hacking up the metal lumps. What I really wanted were some good second hand ones which the owner didn't have the sense to hang on to...... Got them last night for 20quid. They are exceptionally well made, totally professional. Obviously a one off job tho'. The front one is painted but the rear one is not - I'd say this was recently finished by the maker as there's still some weld to be ground down on the last joint. I'll be much happier going laning alone when I can Hi-Lift easily on the new bumpers. I can even sell the old ones and make a very neat profit. Best Regards, Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 07:44:42 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 08:35:54 EST Encoding: 829 Text To: lro@stratus.com, Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com> Subject: Re: Range ROver Bandwidth Content-Length: 809 Status: RO Russell writes: > if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know. Russ, I'd suggest that you contact DAP enterprises in Wareham, MA. They're at (508) 291-1311. They have a really neat catalog of stuff for Range Rovers, including bumpers, winches, brush guards, interior trim and a supercharger package. > I also found some neat oil the other day. Open wire, and Gear oil. > by lubermate. I tried some on a small section of my winch cable > to see if it would attract dirt. After two weeks of dirt roads it was > still clean, so I treated the whole cable. Great Stuff, actually > repels dirt. If fact after I treated the cable I found it would > actually hover 3 inches above the ground. Do you think this stuff would work on a bicycle chain? Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 09:09:00 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 08:59:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <oi85kc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Robin Craig" at Apr 21, 94 02:23:59 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 982 Status: RO Robin Craig was bold enough to point out... > >Somebody told Dixon a while back that the Camel Trophy has been an >exclusive Land Rover product event since its inception, WRONG! The first >Camel event used Jeeps, yep, have pictures in a magazine and article to >prove it, now do you really want me to dig it out to finally put this one >to rest? > Yes, I would like to understand more of this. I have a couple of jeeper buddies that I would like to lower a notch or two. And it is my understanding that camel cigarettes sponsered this for quite a while. Did LR or Jeep provide monitary sponsorship in any way during the early years? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 09:40:31 1994
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 10:11:14 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Camel Trophy
Status: RO
Anyone interested in the Camel Trophy, even though it is PIC (politically
INcorrect)? The 15th event, held this year in the arid and desolate Chaco
region of Paraguay, Argentina and Chile, is notable for several reasons,
not the least of which is that women are competing for the first time
(France and Sweden). With the exception of Siberia in '90, all other event
have been held in equatorial heat and mud, though this year, the event will
likely reach new highs and lows in both temperature and altitude.
Now about 1/3 way through the 19 day, 2,500k route, the 18 national teams
are driving Tdi-powered, four door Discos. In addition to the special
events towards both ends of the tour, participants will be constructing a
self-contained, 6 room environmental research station near Payogasta,
Argentina. Mack Barber of Macon, GA and David Sipmson of Alto Loma, CA are
competing for the US.
As this is the austral autumn, snow and ice may be encountered for the
first time as well, especially as the event crosses the spine of the Andes
at Socompa Pass at about 16,000'. The event will end May 4th in the
Atacama Desert at the coastal town of Hornitos.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 09:55:00 1994
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 10:32:04 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: ARC Nationals
Status: RO
Bill-
When someone mentions "nationals" to me, I think of the Association of
Rover Clubs Nationals. This year they will be held during what Americans
think of as the Memorial Day weekend (27-30 May, 1994) in the Derbyshire
Dales area of the UK. One of ROAV's members and a newbie to the 'Net,
Steve Denis, will be going as our rep. Is Jim Pappas (BSROA) going too, John?
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 10:37:31 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Range ROver Bandwidth Date: 22 Apr 1994 15:26:26 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9404221039.aa19913@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>, Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> wrote: > >Russell Burns writes: >> >[...] >> >> After Two years, I think I have all the loose hardware bolted down, and >> secured with loctite. I can't figure how you can take a good off road >> vehicle and accessories it with wimpy junk. I am still looking for a >> rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock >> rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way >> to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle) >> So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know. >> >ARB do (or certainly did) a rear bumper that sounds like it will meet >your needs. Don't know where you would source them locally, but ARB >products are supplied by David Bowyer (Crediton, Deven) in the UK. >hope this helps. > >Regards > > Rick > >-- > _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 >' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 > /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park >/ \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk >Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 10:37:38 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 22 Apr 94 15:26:32 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Heady Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO I just got my 2.25 gas cylinder head back from the machine shop. If anyone is contemplating a valve job in the near future I've provided the parts and figures so you can budget to do it yourself or to have it done. You UK folks may be interested in the US parts prices. Buying a reconditioned head: Special Tools Needed: Torque Wrench Bottom Tap - same size as head bolts Reconditioned Head ERC5266 $ 695.00 Head Gasket ERC6380 $ 19.50 Valve Cover Gasket ETC6439 $ 4.00 Valve Cover Nut Seals (3) 506069 $ 3.45 Oil Feed Pipe Washer (2) 232039 $ 1.30 Exhaust Manifold Gasket 274171 $ 4.90 Breather O Ring 268887 $ 1.15 Thermostat O Ring 527235 $ .90 Thermostat Top Gasket 527110 $ .95 Thermostat Bottom Gasket 247874 $ .95 Bypass To Thermostat Gasket 90511958 $ .75 Plasticote, Ford Green N/A $ 4.00 Total $ 736.85 Doing it yourself (with the machining done at your local machine shop): Special Tools Needed: Valve Spring compressor Torque Wrench Bottom Tap - same size as head bolts Intake Valves (4) ERC7150 $ 33.00 Intake Valve Guides (4) 568686 $ 32.00 Intake Valve Seals (4) ETC4709 $ 8.00 Exhaust Valves-Stellite (4) ERC7151 $ 63.80 Exhaust Valve Guides (4) 568687 $ 32.00 Exhaust Valve Seals (4) ETC4751 $ 10.00 Medium Freeze Plug top (4) 549702 $ 4.80 Small Freeze Plug top 525497 $ 1.00 New Springs (8) ERR317 $ 24.00 Head Gasket ERC6380 $ 19.50 Valve Cover Gasket ETC6439 $ 4.00 Valve Cover Nut Seals (3) 506069 $ 3.45 Oil Feed Pipe Washer (2) 232039 $ 1.30 Exhaust Manifold Gasket 274171 $ 4.90 Breather O Ring 268887 $ 1.15 Thermostat O Ring 527235 $ .90 Thermostat Top Gasket 527110 $ .95 Thermostat Bottom Gasket 247874 $ .95 Bypass To Thermostat Gasket 90511958 $ .75 Plasticote, Ford Green N/A $ 4.00 Machine Shop Work: Boil & Blast Head $ 15.00 Resurface Head $ 24.00 Install Hardened Exhaust Valve Seats $ 60.00 Cut Seats $ 32.00 Install Valve Guides $ 44.00 Install End Freeze Plug $ 2.00 Total: $ 427.45 Tips: Degrease the engine thoroughly before starting. Gunk and an old toothbrush are a real help. After disconnecting the oil feed tube from the head put a plastic bag over it with a rubber band to keep the dirt out. Place a deep well socket on the valve spring collar & tap with a hammer to break the collets free before compressing the valve springs. Use a bottom tap to clean the head bolt threads in the block. Smear a little grease in the flutes to catch the crud. Do this 3 times for each or until they come out clean. A can of brake parts cleaner will make cleaning the tap a snap. Roll a small paper towel into the size of a pencil and feed it down the bolt holes into the block to soak up any oil or water. There must be NO liquid in the bolt holes. As liquid is non-compressible the best that can happen is that you get a false torque reading due to the pressure of the liquid while torquing the head bolts. The worst that can happen is that the pressure on the liquid causes the block to crack. Ouch! Check your head before ordering the top freeze plugs. They come in different types and sizes. These figures are for a 76 Series III. I must confess that I did not replace the valve springs. My reasoning is that they all gave equal and stiff resistance when compressed, the mild cam profile taxes them less than most engines, the second spring should keep you going should the other break, and they are fairly easy to change without removing the head if you can borrow an air compressor and an air fitting spark plug adapter. Have fun. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 10:59:23 1994
To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu
From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840)
Newsgroups: mlist.lro
Subject: Re: Range ROver Bandwidth
Date: 22 Apr 1994 08:50 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Status: RO
In article <2p8qb2$45e@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) writes...
My editor snipped my response the first time around:
>In article <9404221039.aa19913@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>,
>Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Russell Burns writes:
>>>
>>[...]
>>>
>>> After Two years, I think I have all the loose hardware bolted down, and
>>> secured with loctite. I can't figure how you can take a good off road
>>> vehicle and accessories it with wimpy junk. I am still looking for a
>>> rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock
>>> rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way
>>> to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle)
>>> So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know.
>>>
>>ARB do (or certainly did) a rear bumper that sounds like it will meet
>>your needs. Don't know where you would source them locally, but ARB
>>products are supplied by David Bowyer (Crediton, Deven) in the UK.
>>hope this helps.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>--
>> _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171
>>' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123
>> /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park
>>/ \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk
>>Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
>
>
Try British Pacific, Pasadena, CA. I believe they are/were ARB distributors.
Randy Rose
Pasadena, California
(818)395-3840
rsrose@iago.caltech.edu
California Institute of Technology
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 11:37:55 1994
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 12:05:34 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Past Camels
Status: RO
Only the first Camel Trophy (Brazil, 1980) used jeeps: there were but four
competing teams, and all were from West Germany. Since then, it has been
exclusively Land Rover/Range Rover/Discovery.
It has become a _major_ marketing tool for RJR overseas. Last year, there
were over 1.5 *million* applicants for the 32 positions (16 national teams).
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 13:49:31 1994 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Heady Stuff To: wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404221529.LAA00491@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Oh William.............!!!!! Please do not tell people to hot tank the cyl. heads on a 2.25...the plugs for the water jackets are poured metal(aluminum?) on the early heads and the caustic solution in the "boil out" tank will soften and loosen them!! :-0 Everything else is 100% on and very complete!!!! :-) of course the solution is to put a Tdi engine in the beast...(can ya' loan me about 7 grand?) your low compression buddy, steve......
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 13:00:48 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 22 Apr 94 17:39:24 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Heady Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO I forgot to mention, the tap size needed to clean out the head bolt holes is 1/2 - 20 UNF. Have a great weekend! Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 04:36:48 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Homemade Soft top and Who is Nigel anyway?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 23:10:16 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:
> There is, however, a human Nigel on this lro-net, but he can type, and his
> name always appears in the header.
So who do I send the invite to the OVLR Birthday Party to? Nigel
or Russell? Which of these two individuals do you think would
enjoy the fest more? :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. If *I* am the "strange fish" up here in OVLR, some people
really need to meet the rest of the OVLR crowd. I'm kind of
normal, or so I thought until I let Dale drag me to a country and
western bar last weekend. Must admit it was rather amusing.
"Individuals" all acting out group think via line dancing...
ROFL...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 04:36:43 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Seat Belts
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 23:14:18 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:
> Hmmm, mine attach on top via an added support that runs just behind the
> front doors.
The 109 has no seat belts to speak of. Granted I have thought of
adding some, probably a set from an Austin Mini that I might scrap,
but I'd never consider using them off-road.
> bulkhead an available bit?? Can this type of shoulder strap be used on a
> cab top? (Not that I am considering a cab top, but I do wonder what one
> does in that case.....)
A hard top would be fairly easy to toss in a shoulder strap. The
cab top I'd worry about the lack of any major structural support
that is available to put one in.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 04:36:44 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Other Vehicles
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 1994 23:17:06 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> Seeing a trend regarding vehicles owned in the past I had to
> offer my vehicle history. I bought a 61 Bug out of highschool
> and drove that for 3 years.
If it is the trend, mine is pretty boring. (However if Ted Rose
ever posts a message we would have to wade through at least 26
Austin Mini's, some dozen MGB's, a couple of Jags...). Hmmm, my
first? I guess it was a late 60's Baracuda, followed by a '72
Nova. Nothing for a while, then an Escort, Jeep Wagoneer, four
Mini's, a pair of TR-7's, a Cortina, A Bronco, a Rabbit. That's
what I can think of off-hand... I know I am missing a few...
Rgds,
PS. The important thing is that I currently have nine British cars
and only one foreign car, the '79 Rabbit... :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 04:36:39 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 13:28:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I put Slick 50 in the Honda. It didn't seem to do any harm. Engine always ran well. I have a friend that puts it in everything that he owns. Swears by the stuff. I feel that it is like The Emperor's New Clothes. I noticed no improvement, but then it was a new car. Other "mechanic in a can" items are engine stop leaks that thicken oil, engine conditioner, Radiator Stop Leak. These should not be used. The first two have never worked for me, the last works too well, and can plug your cooling system. Exagerated claims. If all it took to rebuild an engine was a few bucks, you wouldn't see many mechanics. I guess hope springs eternal. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 15:48:19 1994
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 13:36:51 PDT
From: Lou Pendley <loup@SMTP.QUESTS.COM>
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: looking for a used Land Rover in Southern California
Status: RO
Text item: Text_1
I'm looking to buy a used Land Rover Series II - III probably a 109
station wagon.
If you know of any dealers or private parties that are selling any let
me know. I'm looking to restore it myself and don't want to pay top
dollar - I want a fixer upper with integrity.
Why is it that the majority of Land Rovers seem to be in the New
England?
Does anybody know of any Baja Land Rover clubs?
Would any of you be interested in a Baja Land Rover club?
Gracias.
lou@quests.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 16:07:14 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Past Camels
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Apr 94 12:05:34 PDT."
<013.00629598.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 13:57:57 PDT
Status: RO
In message <013.00629598.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> you write:
> Only the first Camel Trophy (Brazil, 1980) used jeeps: there were but four
> competing teams, and all were from West Germany. Since then, it has been
> exclusively Land Rover/Range Rover/Discovery.
So what happened? How did the jeeps fair? Why the switch to Land
Rover Products? Did anything interesting happen on the 1980 Camel?
> It has become a _major_ marketing tool for RJR overseas. Last year, there
> were over 1.5 *million* applicants for the 32 positions (16 national teams).
How many applicants were there from the United States? How does a
person from the United States apply for next year's Camel Trophy?
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 16:23:19 1994 From: msbnyc@aol.com Sender: "msbnyc" <msbnyc@aol.com> To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 22 Apr 94 17:12:21 EDT Subject: un subscribe Status: RO please remove me from the list.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 22 17:46:09 1994 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 18:33:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: ARC Nationals and other meets Status: RO >Bill- >When someone mentions "nationals" to me, I think of the Association of >Rover Clubs Nationals. This year they will be held during what Americans >think of as the Memorial Day weekend (27-30 May, 1994) in the Derbyshire >Dales area of the UK. One of ROAV's members and a newbie to the 'Net, >Steve Denis, will be going as our rep. Is Jim Pappas (BSROA) going too, John? > There is a small chance "el presidente" may have to go play "el capitan" for Sealand and not be able to attend. Besides Jim, there will be 3-4 US BSROA members at the ARC and 2-3 UK BSROA members. I hope we can all get together! I've shamed Jim into getting on the net - he was interested when I told him about the activity on this list but then it waned when I told him you and Steve Denis were on it ... I had to mention alt.sex.beastiality to get him interested again. <grin> (btw I learned about this list from the winter '94 ROAV newsletter Jim gave me!!!) BTW I hardly ever see ARC National references in LRO magazine! Billings and other meets seem to get a lot more press. Is there something political going on? I'd love to go to the event Ian described. The "Billings" show also entices. Anyone care to share notes on how these and others compare? Well gotta go take the roof off the '88 John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 01:18:27 1994
From: landrover@aol.com
Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com>
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 02:06:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Oils 'n' stuff
Status: RO
Personally, I don't mess around with any type of additives in the oil. It
usually just runs out of the engine at some point! So why bother. Cheap oil,
expensive oil, The Landy doesn't care!! It all drips out, sooner or later.
Now, your all agast, right. Anybody who has heard my poor old truck would
swear it's a sewing machine... clunk-a-clunk-a-clunk..
you all know the sound.. It's sounded just like that since the day I've owned
it. Yeah, yeah, I know.. it's not right. But it keeps on running.. and I keep
on pouring oil into it.
So why bother with all that crap.. just pop open a 10-40 and dump it in.
Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 01:24:44 1994 From: landrover@aol.com Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com> To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 02:13:55 EDT Subject: RE:107/109 etc, etc, etc Status: RO Steve Denis says... >I'll wager that if I went ahead and did this that you would never >notice >w/o lifting the bonnet......I must reinforce the notion that the 109 >IS a >Series one!!!! looks the same, 2" longer fenders... I now have two >"dead" >vehicles and this would put one back on the road! :-) > > >steve... Come on Steve.. I think you were weaned too soon!!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 06:41:47 1994
Date: 23 Apr 1994 23:32:58 +1200
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Bumpers (was RR b/w)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
Thread continues:
>> I am still looking for a
>> rear bumper which will support a Hi Lift jack. I re-arranged the stock
>> rear bumper trying to extract my truck from a little mud hole on the way
>> to burger king ( I had to use the windows to get in and out of the vehicle)
>> So if any one knows of a good rear bumper for a Range Rover let me know.
>I've been looking for such Hi-Liftable bumpers for a few months.
>ARB's are way too expensive. Having them made is quite costly too.
>Making them myself is OK as far as welding goes, but not hacking up
>the metal lumps.
The stock (thick) steel bumper on my '71 Rangey seems pretty strong.
Does anyone know whether it is hi-liftable? If so, why not pull one off
an old one?
Just my NZ$0.02,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 04:36:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Name From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 09:19:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I came up with a temporary name for the Land Rover as it is now in pieces. Every time I look at it now I murmor "What a mess" and visualize the antics of that cartoon dog. What a mess should be quite nice when she is finished. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 10:31:19 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 23 Apr 94 14:44:17 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Apologies!!! Content-Type: Text Status: RO The British car show at Moss Motors in NJ is NEXT weekend April 30 and not this weekend. Sorry. Their number is 201-376-0684 days or 201-762-8116 evenings for directions. Hours are 9-3. Admission is $2.00, $10.00 to show your vehicle. On the following day May 1 there is an English car day in Morristown NJ. Hours are 9:30-4:30. Phone is 908-755-3794 or 908 906-5698. Admission is free. $5.00 to show your vehicle. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 11:42:59 1994 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 1994 12:19:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: RE:107/109 etc, etc, etc To: landrover@aol.com Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404230213.tn71477@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sat, 23 Apr 1994 landrover@aol.com wrote: > Steve Denis says... > > >I'll wager that if I went ahead and did this that you would never >notice > >w/o lifting the bonnet......I must reinforce the notion that the 109 >IS a > >Series one!!!! looks the same, 2" longer fenders... I now have two >"dead" > >vehicles and this would put one back on the road! :-) > > > > > >steve... > > Come on Steve.. I think you were weaned too soon!! Well,...I might be guilty of that fer'sure,...However if I were "Oral Retentive",would'nt I be looking for "Mamas" and be working on getting a corvette or something? I mean, a Series I ,107 or 109 isn't a "Babe magnet"!..........or is it?....Does anyone have any insight on the "Sex appeal" of a Land Rover? (Ladies,feel free to jump in here!) (I will get an "A" in psych yet!) steve... PS. I don't mean to clog up the 'net with this,but it was a low shot on the part of landrover@aol.com and I do think the question I ask has some merit,as there must be some attraction to the vehicle other than it's transportation index..... ;-)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 21:51:40 1994
Date: 24 Apr 1994 14:42:08 +1200
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Babe Magnet (was:107/109 etc, etc, etc)
To: lro@stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
>> Steve Denis says...
clip
>Well,...I might be guilty of that fer'sure,...However if I were "Oral
>Retentive",would'nt I be looking for "Mamas" and be working on getting a
>corvette or something? I mean, a Series I ,107 or 109 isn't a "Babe
>magnet"!..........or is it?....Does anyone have any insight on the "Sex
>appeal" of a Land Rover? (Ladies,feel free to jump in here!) (I will get
>an "A" in psych yet!)
>
clip
Actually "Babe Magnet" WAS the name of my '56 Series 1 SWB softop. FWIW
regarding seatbelts, I put in used retractable shoulder belts on the "BM"
which were connected above the shoulder to a steel (approved seatbelt)
plate that I welded between the rollbar and a support. The whole
operation cost around NZ$50 (US$26) and a couple of hours.
Cheers,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 22:42:12 1994 Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 20:32:49 PST From: wc@lady.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (William Carter) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: ~r lrnet.1 Status: RO -- | William Carter, Inventor 1817 Prince St #B | | Ph# (510) 548-3115 Berkeley, CA 94703 | | FAX (510) 644-4471 Internet: wc@lady.berkeley.edu |
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 23 22:47:23 1994
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 94 20:38:00 PST
From: wc@lady.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (William Carter)
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Aqua Rover Information Sought
Status: RO
Well, it's a crummy day (read "Dark and stormy night") here
at "Bagdad-by-the-bay" so...
I thought I'd introduce my self to you folks. I've been
"listening" to your trials, tribulations, hopes, dreams, and
ambitions for several months now. I have my own that I would
like to share with you, because I know you can help, but first.
Mine is a series IIa ('64) 109 P/U converted to a camper.
I also recieve rec.caves, and rec.sail. This is my 3rd 'Landy'
and I have also owned a couple of '3 liters'. The hood on
'The Delight of My Life' once belonged to one of my fathers'
Rovers. In the late '50s He had several 'Landys' because he was
the "Top Notch" surveyor out here at that time. He needed a
vehicle which would out perform any horse, but still carry his
equipment. The only negative effect that I can remember from
that peroid of time was when he got a ticket for going to
slow on the Golden Gate Bridge (55mph) because he couldn't go
any faster (but it was still faster than a Jeep).
Anyway, my hopes, dreams and ambitions include going south to a
better latitude and then shipping 'The Delight of My Life'
east to Turkey, or west to some place I've never been yet.
The question is:
Is an Aqua Rover better suited to my needs,
What are my needs, &
Where can I find out more about an Aqua Rover?
I thank you in advance,
Bill
P.S.
Sorry for the previous empty letter. I am unfamiliar with the mailer.
--
| William Carter, Inventor 1817 Prince St #B |
| Ph# (510) 548-3115 Berkeley, CA 94703 |
| FAX (510) 644-4471 Internet: wc@lady.berkeley.edu |
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 24 22:21:37 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Strange clunk...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 12:03:37 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Seeing the mail gateway seems to have collapsed again for the
inward bound stuff, I might as well toss this out for net.wisdom
anyway.
Last night, while driving the 70 odd kilometres from Almonte home,
the Swamp Beast did something very strange. ABout seven times,
while driving down paves tarmac roads there was a single clunk/
crash from somewhere in the drive train. It was almost as if it
was trying to go into 4wd or something. A similar effect would
feel like a large metal object shifting its load into another metal
object, but the winter ballast of engine, gearbox and other
assorted LR pieces have all been removed.
The high/low range lever was in the correct spot, the 4wd lever was
correct, the hubs are all solidly locked. This has never happened
before, and occured at random intervals while I was driving.
Anyone have any ideas? I'm going to look the drivetrain over
today, but am interested in hearing suggestions.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 00:12:42 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: your mail
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 1994 23:25:43 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> Yes, I would like to understand more of this. I have a couple
> of jeeper buddies that I would like to lower a notch or two.
As I understand it, the first Camel Trophy was sponsored by RJ
Reynolds, the owner of the Camel cigarette label. The first
vehicles used for the Trans-Amozonia run were Jeeps. Problems
included the bonnet mounted spares that were too heavy for the
strength of the bonnet and comprssed them into the carburettor and
fuel system. Suffice it to say, Land Rovers were used after that.
> Did LR or Jeep provide monitary sponsorship in any way during the
> early years?
RJ Reynolds did in the beginning, but for how long I am not sure.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 04:34:54 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Other Vehicles To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 10:24:15 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <87V6kc4w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Apr 21, 94 11:17 pm Status: RO Oh well,if we're on this tack.....time to show my age,I suppose:-) First vehicle,1931 MG J2,(no Dixon,it *wasnt* a current model when I had it..).Had to rebuild the doors on this one,they were wood framed.Lovely little two seater,with solid shock absorbers,and a flexible chassis.Cost me twelve quid at the time,and double that to insure it.Next,a Triumph Mayflower.Urgh!Three speed wonder,and drove like a top heavy bus.Ran it on three cylinders for a month,before I got round to replacing the exhaust valve.Then i dropped the feeler gauges down the valve chest (side valves),and had to take the sump off.Prat!Then I had a MG ZA Magnette,which was a "nice" car,leather seats,walnut dash etc,but under the bonnet was a *horrible* BMC OHV cooking plant.A great dissapointment.It would have been a really good motor fitted with the MG twin cam engine,but they never did.This was still in the days when you could write to MG at Abingdon,AND get a reply.Very helpful they were,too.This went in exhange for an MGA soft top,which didnt have a heater.They were optoinal extras.I fitted it with a heater from a scrap Riley 1500,which not only heated the cockpit,but pressurised it too.Again,bit of a "cooking" power plant, but they *were* insurable as tourers,rather than outright sports cars, so I could afford the premiums.Triumh Herald after that(I *had* got married in the meantime),but we draw a veil over that car,except to say that access to normally inaccessible bits was achieved by bolt on (or off) panels so that maintenance was a dream.It was the first car I ever had with fully independant suspension,via a De Dion rear axle.The rear spring was a transverse leaf.Pretty much a la Spitfire,I suspect. After that,a half timbered Mini.The most bloody awful abortion of a vehicle it has ever been my misfortune to drive.The inevitable armful of oil every time you change the filter,a ten foot screwdriver essential to remove the bottom radiator hose,driven in the typical knees knocking the chin position,and Land Rover bum is *nothing* to the aching spine you suffer in a Mini.Added to that,a gear levr you have to*lift* off the floor,thus putting your shoulder out of joint, true,I did it!You can keep 'em.The wife loved it though...Strange people,women.No accounting for them at all.Swopped that after six months for a Morris Minor.Now its almost axiomatic(look it up), among people of my age that we all,at some time or other,had a Moggy Minor.And without exception no-one ever had to take a spanner to them in anger.They were(and still are) light on fuel,easy to work on,utterly reliable,and spares were plentiful and cheap.They have no boot(trunk) to speak of and the worst brakes in the world.Unfortunatley the wife got a headache(alright,I *know* that joke,too)on a journey of any length,which was finally tracked down to low frequency vibration, which couldnt be damped out.So it had to go,in favour of a Triumph 1300.Front wheel drive,VERY luxurious.The only snag was that due to a design fault in the front suspension,the front tyres lasted an astronomical five thousand miles.Two sets a year.The back ones lasted for ever.In common with most Triumphs of its era,it rusted enthusuastically.In fact,it commited suicide,rather than rusted.I replaced that by another Triumph, a 1850cc Dolomite this time.This had the slant four engine OHC,which was originally built for SAAB by Triumph.rumour had it that SAAB were rejecting so many engines that Triumph had to use it themselves,just to get rid of the surplus.Be that as it may,it was a *lovely* power unit when on song,and the car was a dream to drive.I replaced the pistons and bearings at 90,000 miles, and it would see off anything on the road,just about.The "sprint" version was faster,but introduced "BMW disease" to the Britsh motoring public,ie warping heads.They didnt leave enough metal in the head,with the four valve setup.There was precious little in the normal two valve head,but it didnt warp as much.Mine didnt at all.When my father in law died(leving me to inherit the title of the worlds worst electrician),he also left me a(gulp) Ford Escort Mk11.I *hated* that car.It had *nothing* going for it at all. AND it was far less economical than the Dolly.A 1300cc afterthought.Its only humourous feature was that when you swiched off,the engine ran on. Backwards.I checked everything timing the lot,but it still ran on backwards. Thought it was a steam engine,I guess.Wish it had been,coal was still fairly cheap.That dog went as soon as decently possible,and I bought a Citroen GSA Special veeeery cheap,only done 14000 miles.Flat four air cooled engine, front whel drive;sorry,traction avant;hydro-whatsit suspension,inboard front disc brakes,mechanical ABS.Well at least ABS was the effect the braking system gave.In many ways this was a superb machine,the brakes were phenomenal, the ride lovely,but the car was a collection of good ideas,badly put together. The french,it seemed had never heard of things like Nyloc nuts,or locking washers,or,come to that,conventional fasteners at all.It took half an hour just to change the plugs,and the heater worked well at town speeds,but heat fell off at anything over 50mph,due to the exhaust jacket cooling in the slipstream.I got the impression that the Citroen people had started with a clean sheet of paper when designing the car,and asked themselves questions like"Why do wheels have to be round?".Unfortunately the thing was an impossibility to maintain at home,due to the incredible number of special tools needed. Hence the Land Rover.And I've had *that* longer than I've ever kept any of them,and I'm not planning to get rid of the old girl anytime yet.If I had to have a favourite,Rover apart,I thinke the old MG J2,and the Dolly would win. I cant decide between them.But they both would come second to the Land Rover. Ah well,thats got you all well and truly bored,sorry 'bout that,and its still only Monday:-). Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 08:07:46 1994
Date: 26 Apr 1994 00:56:21 +1200
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Other Vehicles
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
Now that you mention it......Lets see if I can remember them all....
'70 Mercedes 220D (only sedan that would fit a double bass)
'71 VW Bus (really impressed dates' parents)
'75 Fiat Spyder (when they run, there's nothing like 'em)
'62? Triumph TR4 (Introduction to British)
'63 VW Kombi (OK, so I have a soft spot for VW transporters)
'78 Vespa 200 w/ sidecar (Metallic Mustard with matching helmet)
'67 Chev Stakebed Pickup (needed a motor rebuild for summer auto mechanic
school)
'70 Chev Camaro SS (needed another body for rebuilt 327ci when above was
written off)
'67 VW Bug (traded the pickup body & SS motor for it)
'77 Fiat Spyder (it was only $500 just after Hurricane Alicia)
'67 Porsche 912 (bought it w/o a motor & fitted a '73 superbeetle 1600)
'87 Suzuki Samurai (After 3 years stolen, the 220D was recovered by Dallas
PD so I traded it in on this)
'79 Volvo 422 (bought it in Spain with expired Dutch reg. and travelled
all around Europe except Holland of course)
'74 Int'l Scout II (also bought w/o motor and fitted an AMC 6cyl)
Then I moved to NZ and decided to stick to British
'71 Austin Mini MkII 850 (someone put a 1000 in it)
'56 Series I LandRover SWB (Babe Magnet!)
'71 Rangerover (clean green LPG-powered otherwise original
I'm still looking for a Morris Minor Traveller
OK, wake up now,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 11:53:38 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: camel trophy on TV Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 09:37:42 Status: RO | John Hess (jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu) writes: | | I had the TV on last night and caught about 2 minutes of coverage of | last years? Camel Trophy. The show was on TNN and is called "the | amazing world of speed and beauty". ... last year's Camel Trophy in Malaysia was broadcast in the US on the cable sports channel, ESPN, a few times, as an hour-long event. basically a Land Rover infomercial with some great Camel Trophy footage almost as a by-product. not sure if this is what you mention about TNN. Land Rover North America sent a video to some folks, which had 3 segments on it: - extended ad for the '94 Def90 - the full ESPN Camel Trophy '93 broadcast - info/ad for Colorado's Land Rover Driving Academy (not the UK's Land Rover Experience) not sure about how to get the video, i got it cause i got a '93 Def110, probably all folks that buy a new Rover get on this marketing mailing list. the Rover dealers probably have this set to auto-repeat in their showroom floor TV/VCR. i expect next time they have enough to fit a Disco ad, they'll send out another... Lee Fisher
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 10:11:46 1994
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 10:34:11 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: More Camel
Status: RO
Ben Smith writes:
>How many applicants were there from the United States? How does a person
from the United States apply for next year's Camel Trophy?
There were about a 600 US applicants for this year's Camel. The best
twenty or so are chosen to attend a rigorous, three day selection trial,
typically held in the Grand Junction, CO area in early December. Four are
chosen, with two eventually advancing to the event itself.
The Camel Trophy has become much more physically oriented - four wheeling
has become almost secondary. Applicants should be capable of running a
marathon, have strong math skills (time/distance problems) and be good with
maps (orienteering and navigation). The overall winner of the Camel Trophy
must score highly in two areas: "special tasks" - timed, endurance/skills
tests and "team spirit" - voted on by all of the other competetors.
Special tasks include 10-20K cross-country orienteer runs, paddling an
inflatable canoe, or even something as mundane as fetching a jerry can of
water from a river 400 meters downhill. Driving tasks are typically very
short (several minutes) and closed-course; others involve combinations of
winching and sand ladders. There may be problem solving tasks: how fast
can you change a tire without using a jack? Sorry, winching the vehicle
into the air as in "The Gods..." not allowed. (Try to figure this one out
and I'll post the answer tomorrow.)
In short, you have to be in damn good shape to participate in the Camel
Trophy. For those sturdy souls interested, write to Tom Collins (a member
of the US/Madagascar team in '87), PO Box 587, Snowmass, CO 81654.
>So what happened? How did the jeeps fair? Why the switch to Land Rover products?
These were not set up for expedition type work - limited cargo capacity and
as they were rag-tops, no roof rack. It's a good thing though, as all the
drivers did was to flog the vehicles from Point A to Point B as fast as
possible. The tire on the hood was an attempt to carry a second spare,
with dire consequenses to the mechanicals as a result of the aforementioned
driving style. Because of the vehicular shortcomings, the cheeps (sic)
were dropped as fast as a bad apple.
RJR continues to provide virtually all the sponsorship monies, as it is a
major advertising tool in Europe. Five years ago, I tried to buy one of
the Borneo 2.25 diesel 90's at RJR's annual sealed-bid vehicle auction (I
don't know if anyone else noticed the high water mark inside of one of the
roof-mounted driving lights!) but someone bid twice what I did. (It went
for $12,800).
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 10:00:22 1994
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Other Vehicles
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 15:49:14 BST
Cc: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9404250924.AA11607@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Apr 25, 94 10:24 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
Mike said:
> Oh well,if we're on this tack.....time to show my age,I suppose:-)
{lots of previous car stuff}
> Ah well,thats got you all well and truly bored,sorry 'bout that,and its still
> only Monday:-).
I really enjoyed reading that Mike, I laughed out loud at your
observations. Best thing on this list ever.
Best Regards,
Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 10:22:25 1994
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Bumpers (was RR b/w)
To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz ("David L. Dean")
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 16:08:09 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9C90125645@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>; from "DAVID DEAN" at Apr 23, 94 11:32 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz ("David L. Dean") writes:
> The stock (thick) steel bumper on my '71 Rangey seems pretty strong.
Well thick is a relative term, given the weight of the Rangey I would
say it is unsubstantial, plus it's not a box or girder section so will
deform easily. The last thing you want when high-lifting is the car
slipping off the jack before you want it to.
> Does anyone know whether it is hi-liftable? If so, why not pull one off
> an old one?
Why they made non-high-liftable bumpers for Rangey's is unknown to me.
The bumpers aren't even flat bottomed. Presumably a style
consideration, given the expected market. I've seen the result of
high lifting stock bumpers, it's a mess. you can get a variety of
hook and chain adaptors but I don't reckon much for their stability.
If you really need a high-lift and nothing else will do then you're
pretty stuck by definition and nothing but a solid jack point is going
to help you safely.
Best Regards,
Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 10:44:13 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Other Vehicles To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 11:29:51 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404250924.AA11607@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Apr 25, 94 10:24 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > Oh well,if we're on this tack.....time to show my age,I suppose:-) Your experience is more like it. > Ah well,thats got you all well and truly bored,sorry 'bout that,and its still > only Monday:-). Thoroughly amused, but not bored. This one got saved in my favorite "archive" file, which is NEVER to be deleted, and is kept for future reading enjoyment and distribution to those I wish to enlighten. Keep it up, ol' mate! rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 10:46:49 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Homemade Soft top and Who is Nigel anyway? To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 11:38:21 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <TVV6kc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Apr 21, 94 11:10 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Dixon writes > "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes: > > > There is, however, a human Nigel on this lro-net, but he can type, and his > > name always appears in the header. > > So who do I send the invite to the OVLR Birthday Party to? Nigel > or Russell? Which of these two individuals do you think would > enjoy the fest more? :-) > Nigel would gladly accept the invitation, but Russell will have to read it for him (he is clairvoiant, however, so I'm sure all you need to do is think the thought and he'll get the message). Russell needs to give Nigel a new clutch before he can go anywhere (and it would seem that he has *plenty* of time to do this). > > PS. If *I* am the "strange fish" up here in OVLR, some people > really need to meet the rest of the OVLR crowd. I'm kind of > normal, or so I thought until I let Dale drag me to a country and > western bar last weekend. Must admit it was rather amusing. > "Individuals" all acting out group think via line dancing... > ROFL... > *This* is your idea of a fun evening, is it?? Perhaps I'll have to bring my spurs. I'll also need a quick lesson in the "two step" (but I can do a kick-ass promenade and do-see-do). circle 'round, swing yer pardner's, rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 11:14:52 1994
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 07:55:45 -0800
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (John Hess)
Subject: camel trophy on TV
Status: RO
Howdy all,
I had the TV on last night and caught about 2 minutes of coverage
of last years? Camel Trophy. The show was on TNN and is called "the
amazing world of speed and beauty". I asked my wife if the rovers were
speed or beauty ;-).
Anyway, some coverage of land rovers driving through RIVERS, climbing muddy
banks, the drivers out in water up to their waists and at the end, the big
party.
If by chance you get the show on another day, look for it. Or just hope for
reruns.
BTW, the race was also the subject of a ham radio magazine (don't remember
the official title, saw it at the local library) article. The cover
featured a land rover crossing a log bridge and the article inside covered
the radio gear without a single picture of the vehicles!
That's all, cheers,
John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420
Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me 916 752 8520
University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu
Davis, CA or leave me alone, your choice.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 11:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:58:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Strange clunk... To: dixon kenner <dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <q1kaLc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have had a similar problem,it turned out to be a broken return spring on the hand brake shoes. The shoe would bounce out and "cam" aganst the drum,and cause a clunk as it jammed the drum. I guess that it would get thrown back by the shock and stick on the glop on the backing plate (output shaft seal? what out put shaft seal?) If all else fails take a look ya' never know.... good luck mate, steve denis@0swego.oswego.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 11:35:24 1994
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:06:41 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Previous vehicles
Status: RO
Jeez, reading the voluminous lists when it comes to previously-owned
cars, I guess I'm "vehicularly challenged." (only 4 total) First was a
'64 Olds Jetstar with monster 400-something engine. That big chunk of iron
gave its life to save mine in a head-on in an upstate NY white-out at ten
below. Next, a '68 Chevy wagon with the 283 V-8...absolutely the best
motor ever built in America, bar none. They stopped making it: it was too
good and lasted too long. The body rusted out and it was sold (pity).
1972 88" (bought new!)...it occurred to me over the weekend, whilst
navigating a narrow rocky trail...I've been driving this one vehicle for
*half* of my life! 'Nuff said.
Oh yes, an '83.5 Nissan PU, bought when the Rover was being overhauled.
It's rusting out pretty good now, but the rice rocket has *never* been in
the shop (except for consumables - brakes, muffler).
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 12:09:34 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:55:43 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Strange clunk... Status: RO >I have had a similar problem,it turned out to be a broken return spring on >the hand brake shoes. The shoe would bounce out and "cam" aganst the >drum,and cause a clunk as it jammed the drum. I guess that it would get >thrown back by the shock and stick on the glop on the backing plate >(output shaft seal? what out put shaft seal?) >If all else fails take a look ya' never know.... While I've had several clinks over the years that could match your description, I recently had one which was traced to the handbrake (although it sounded a lot more mechanical than I would believe the hand brake could be). This weekend, I ripped apart the linkage and found that it had seized where is pivots on the frame (and, as you know, the hand brake handle only pulls the brake closed, and relies on spring action and the play of the linkage right up to that sliding bit to allow it to loosen up). Anyone have any magic for keeping that big pivot from seizing (this is the second time in the last year it's done that). On Charlie's (RN) advice, I had a grease nipple (and a small groove for the grease) fitted, to no avail. I was thinking of either turning down the whole pivot-shaft, to provide for a loose fit and space for plenty of oil... or i could turn down the center part of the shaft (leaving two bearing surfaces at the ends of the pivot rod) letting the center act as a grease reservoir... does this description (or the process itself) make any sense? -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 12:08:12 1994
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 09:53:28 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Strange clunk...
Status: RO
Dixon,
I get a sound like you describe once and awhile. I've diagnosed mine
as worn spring bushings. This happens more frequently the colder it
is. It usually happens when cornering.
Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
Last night, while driving the 70 odd kilometres from Almonte home,
the Swamp Beast did something very strange. ABout seven times,
while driving down paves tarmac roads there was a single clunk/
crash from somewhere in the drive train. It was almost as if it
was trying to go into 4wd or something. A similar effect would
feel like a large metal object shifting its load into another metal
object, but the winter ballast of engine, gearbox and other
assorted LR pieces have all been removed.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 12:43:53 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 25 Apr 94 15:17:23 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Busy Weekend Content-Type: Text Status: RO On Friday UPS delivered the correct brake pipe from RN. Dirk really did me a favor by getting it in Wednesday's shipment at the last minute. This got me the part by the weekend and saved me the cost of overnight shipping. Jan, a thank you note to Dirk is on its way. With the RF seals and bad wheel cylinder replaced, my initial problem of pulling to the left under braking was still there. Saturday AM I pulled the RR wheel and found oil - lots of it. I checked the axle breather and found it clear - cleaned it anyway. On pulling the hub I found the race to be scored so... drill it, split it, replace it. I happily reassembled it with the knowledge that this would solve my problem. I took it for a drive and... still pulling to the left. HHMMM???? Next I pulled the LF wheel and noticed some black dust... no it was dried oil. I checked the swivel housing and found it over filled (oops!) and drained the excess. The front breather was clogged and I hope that was the problem. At this point I won't replace the hub seal as there is very little wet seepage and I'll keep an eye on it. Also, I used my last race on the RR wheel. Took it for a drive and now it... pulls to the right??? As it was not as dramatic as it had been pulling to the left, I used it to run some errands. After about 10 miles it has evened out. The amount of oil on the LF drum & shoes was very light but the thing was grabbing like crazy. My first thought was to check the side that was not pulling and look for a bad wheel cylinder. Now I know a little better. I used a couple of cans of brake parts cleaner to cut the grease, but Gunk and water would probably be OK too. Just be sure to put plastic bags and rubber bands over the wheel cylinders to keep the water out or at least pull off the dust covers afterwards to dry out the water if you don't. Yea, Yea, I'm one of these "rednecks" that likes to go wading too, but if you avoid wetting your wheel cylinders when you can, they'll live that much longer. Sunday I decided to remove the top from the 88. It's funny how it goes faster each year. I always get everything unbolted then wait for one of my neighbors to get home to help me lift the darned thing off. But after sitting there contemplating the universe and how else I could get the thing off by myself, I realized that there were only 16 bolts holding the the top shell on. So off they came (I refastened the sliding glass quarters to the tub with one bolt each). I could now maneuver the thing on my back, but it was still too awkward to carry off by myself. So my 70 year old dad gave me a hand, and off it came. Not only did I not have to call the neighbors but now the whole thing stores quite nicely in our basement instead of outside under a tarp. I can rest assured knowing that my headliner won't serve as a summer home for Mickey, Minnie, Mighty, and Danger. And window channels can now be a rainy day project! On the bench as well! You might want to replace your nuts and bolts while you're at it. It makes assembly and disassembly much easier. Dale made a good point about the wind at your back while driving sans top. This also applies to exhaust fumes, cigarette smoke, and ashes. Making sure your points are clean, the dwell is set (60 degrees), and the valves are adjusted will make the drive a lot more enjoyable (keeping in mind that the rest of the ignition and fuel systems are fine and you're not driving a diesel). Dealing with the cigarettes is up to you. I didn't object to some last minute passengers on one rally lighting up without my permission. Until I caught an ash in my right eye flying up the interstate. Live & learn. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 13:28:18 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 25 Apr 94 16:20:28 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Spring Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO Someone asked last week if there was a torque figure for the spring shackle bolts. Well, I just happened to be thumbing through my Series III manual and low and behold there it is (for new spring replacement): "Deflect the spring towards the chassis to the required dimesion by using a length of chain passed over the chassis and under a lifting trolly jack. Alternately lower the vehicle on its wheels and load the vehicle." (The dimension referred to is from the frame where the bump stop attaches to the flat spot on the axle that contacts the bump stop) 88F 110-114 mm 88R 142-146 mm 109F 118-122 mm 109R 158-162 mm "Tighten the spring shackle bolts and nuts to 60-70lbft." I'm still trying to picture the chain under the trolly jack scenario. I guess inviting as many friends over to as you can to load the vehicle down would be the easier solution. Less brain work anyway. Another thing you could do is to loosen the bolts every few weeks as it settles, then drive it a couple of miles to allow the bushings to snap back. ****************************************************************************** Sandy Grice gave me a tip that Detroit Diesel "Alpine Green" engine enamel is even closer to the original Rover engine color than the Plasticote Ford Green. You might want to give it a try. ****************************************************************************** Dixon, how long does it take to drive to NYC from Ottawa? I'm about 30 minutes east of NYC. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 13:26:45 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 14:11:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Strange clunk... In-Reply-To: <9404251655.AA18117@MIT.EDU> Status: RO Jory Writes; > >Anyone have any magic for keeping that big pivot from seizing (this is the >second time in the last year it's done that). On Charlie's (RN) advice, I >had a grease nipple (and a small groove for the grease) fitted, to no >avail. I was thinking of either turning down the whole pivot-shaft, to >provide for a loose fit and space for plenty of oil... or i could turn down >the center part of the shaft (leaving two bearing surfaces at the ends of >the pivot rod) letting the center act as a grease reservoir... does this >description (or the process itself) make any sense? Jory, I just tore mine apart and put it in the vise yesterday, and it took about 3 times of heating it up with a torch and dousing it with kerosene and oil for it to break loose. While I was trying to get it to rotate, it seemed like it was the circlip that was binding it and not the shaft. I may be wrong but when it broke loose it spun around like a top, not like the shaft was galded. If the shaft were rusted I think I would have had to spend a lot more time on it. Any way, if you find the ultimate solution let me know. BTW can any one explain the advantage of threaded, spring loaded, square headed clevis pins? Jon
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 13:41:22 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 14:31:20 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Vapor Lock Status: RO >Before I ramble too far - does my problem sound like it is vapor lock? If >so what can I do to fix it? If it is not vapor lock what else might it be? While this may not apply at all to your case: For the first two years I had my rover, I thought I was battling a vapor lock problem. At one point, I was driving from NYC to Boston, and it would keep stalling, and I removed my bonnet to get more air flow, and was absolutely convinced it helped things along. (The problme was this intermittent stalling, after which I'd wait a while and things would go along fine for a bit)... I had rebuilt the whole fule system, and coincidentally put in a new weber, so I though I knew it wasn't that. After billions of hours of troubleshooting, I finally pulled out the fuel pickup tube, and sawed it in half... it had been corroded almost closed, and as I drove, little particles would float up, and get caught in the small opening and clog the fuel supply... waiting a bit let these settle to the bottom of the tank... letting things go on for a while till they floated up and got caught again... replacing the pick-up tube fixed this problem for me... -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 12:51:21 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 12:42:34 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Vapor Lock Status: RO Twice now in the growing heat of TX after a high speed trip and sitting for a bit I have been struck with what I think is vapor lock. The car starts idles then dies as if it ran out of gas. Then it won't restart. So far what seems to fix it is taking off the gas pipe at the carb and fiddling with the primer on the fuel pump to make sure gas is coming up the pipe and then plug it back in and then it usually works (of course maybe just the time it takes to do this is what fixes it.) I never had this happen before on the old engine with the same Weber carb - the new engine has a new fuel pump and the same carb. Perhaps putting the heat shield back on around the manifold has trapped too much heat? The old engine did not have the shield in place. I do remember a thread not too long ago wondering whether it caused more harm then good to leave this on. I do have one of those clear fuel filters that used to be up near the carb - but after the first incident of vapor lock - I moved it down closer to the fuel pump thinking this might help (it didn't). Also as this is clear I notice that there is always some air in the filter. I have tried to get it all out but no luck so far. Before I ramble too far - does my problem sound like it is vapor lock? If so what can I do to fix it? If it is not vapor lock what else might it be? specs - 2.25 liter, weber carb 34ich, mechanical fuel pump Best - Greg Dixon - I haven't seen any sign of you accessing the Rover web. Do you have a direct internet link? If so I was hoping to get a few picture of one of your adventures on the web. http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 14:57:07 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:04:02 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: '94 Camel trophy Status: RO John Hess writes about catching a bit of the Camel on TV. Well, if you have a dish (I don't) and access to mega channels, you may be able to view some near-realtime footage. Reuters TV is carrying regular updates on its North American News and Sports feed April 18 to May 5. A video of the entire event is available from LRNA later. Otherwise, here is the latest- Day 6, on 'the road to hell': "Camel Trophy participants, whose dream it is to battle inch by inch through mud holes three feet deep, reached their nirvana on Thursday, when the 1994 Camel Trophy convoy found itself ensnared by a 15km section of the stickiest, most glutinous mud in Paraguay." "This is why I applied for Camel trophy, to stand up to my chest in mud getting a fleet of Land Rover vehicles through the worst mud I have ever seen," said Kemal Merkit of the Turkish team. The convoy was attempting to enter Argentina near Rosario, that is, until a
helicopter recce convinced them otherwise. "From the helicopter, it looked
like the Great Lakes ahead," said event director Iain Chapman. "They have
had four inches of rain here last week and it would take us three weeks to
get to the next area of dry land, so we decided to turn the convoy around
and make a long detour on better roads."
Regrouping near Asuncion, the 'better road', Ruta 86, turned out to be a
200km mud slide. Heavily cambered, the Dutch team almost made it four
years in a row (for rolling a Disco), as the slick, narrow track claimed
numerous vehicles. A raft crossing of the Rio Teuco was planned for
Saturday, pending another helicopter recce of widespread flooding in the
normally dry, flat Chaco frontier.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 16:27:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Vapor Lock From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:02:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > Twice now in the growing heat of TX after a high speed trip and sitting for > a bit I have been struck with what I think is vapor lock. The car starts > idles then dies as if it ran out of gas. Then it won't restart. So far what > seems to fix it is taking off the gas pipe at the carb and fiddling with > the primer on the fuel pump to make sure gas is coming up the pipe and then > plug it back in and then it usually works (of course maybe just the time it > takes to do this is what fixes it.) > specs - 2.25 liter, weber carb 34ich, mechanical fuel pump > > > Best - > Greg > I had a similar problem with my series 111. When it was hot, either at idle or stopped for awhile. The culprit was the coil getting too hot. If I left it, everything would be fine. Replace the coil and let me know if it solves your problem. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 16:27:23 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: One new spring From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 15:11:14 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Thanks to Dixon and Dave for helping me with the spring. Only 3 more to go. Now the Land Rover looks lopsided. No pictures please. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 15:42:53 1994
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 13:28:36 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: '94 Camel trophy
Status: RO
>Well, if you have a dish (I don't) and access to mega channels, you may be
>able to view some near-realtime footage. Reuters TV is carrying regular
>updates on its North American News and Sports feed April 18 to May 5. A
>video of the entire event is available from LRNA later.
Any idea on which satellite they will be carrying the feeds (I do have a dish)?
-Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 16:29:03 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 14:17:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: BANG! Status: RO Sigh, I was sitting at a traffic light in The Green Rover when there was a loud bang and the car jurked forward. Lucally I was at the front of the line and the light had just turned green. It felt like someone had hit me from behing, but it was just the clutch engaging quickly with the peddle to the floor. I pulled off the side of the road and got out in the driving rain to check things over. I pulled the cover off the top of the peddle assembly. The top mechanical linkage looked good. I leaned over the clutch resavor and checked the fluid in the new master cylinder..full. Had my roommate pump the clutch peddel. Everything looked normal on top. Next I pulled the passenger side floor, transmission hump and the sheet metal in front if it exposing the slave cylinder and mechanical linkage. i pushed on the clutch peddel and watched the lower linkage work. Hmmm. It seems the linkage is extending properly but not retracting very far when the peddle is released. I can hand push the linkage back into the retracted posistion. Push on the clutch and have the lower linkage move properly. Relase it and it only retracts part way. Nothing I can do to quickly fix it. I started he in gear and drive home grumbling all the way. I ignored her Sunday. I guess I'm not enough of an enthusiast to lay in the mud to pull the drive shafts and lower bolts. I am not relishing moving that heavy transmission/transfer case about.. One other symptom. By pushing down on the clutch I could get the clutch to slip enough to come to a stop without killing the engine (one foot on the clutch, one on the brake- firmly, and one on the allerator linkage. I guess I had better order a new disk while I'm at it. My best guess: I think a spring in the diaphram may have gone. Backup guess: the shift fork broke Arm chair trouble shooting guesses welcome. results will be posted. Why me? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 17:00:44 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 17:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: BANG! To: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404252117.AA23248@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OK...some of the more obvious stuff.... >The pins in the crosshaft sleeve sometimes snap...you can(sorta) replace them with the car assembled,one is hidden in by the bellhousing boot the other is visable at the inside edge of the bracket The clutch disk has split apart and is stacked up,making a double thickness disk.... and here's an odd one.... the flywheel pilot bushing can seize on the input shaft and will act just like a clutch ingaging...every one I've seen was discribed just like that...BANG! "Felt like somebody rear ended me! (Allways at a light too.....) Have fun gotta go to class now,will ponder this and poss. additions to follow (hope it's simple!!!!!!) steve...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 18:27:17 1994
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Subject: Re: BANG!
To: twakeman@apple.com ("TeriAnn Wakeman" )
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 19:17:02 EDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9404252117.AA23248@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Apr 25, 94 2:17 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1]
Status: RO
TeriAnn writes:
> Sigh,
uhoh.
snipsnip
>
> I pulled off the side of the road and got out in the driving rain to check
> things over. I pulled the cover off the top of the peddle assembly. The top
> mechanical linkage looked good. I leaned over the clutch resavor and checked
> the fluid in the new master cylinder..full. Had my roommate pump the clutch
> peddel. Everything looked normal on top. Next I pulled the passenger side
> etc.
you could get to the top of the pedal ass'y without removing your wing?? (or
did you once say you cut your wing so's you could more easily access this
general area?)
>Hmmm. It seems the linkage is extending properly but not
> retracting very far when the peddle is released.
> I can hand push the linkage back into the retracted posistion. Push on the
> clutch and have the lower linkage move properly. Relase it and it only retracts
> part way. Nothing I can do to quickly fix it. I started he in gear and drive
This may be normal. I have this same "problem", and my recent clutch woes (not
including my current clutch woes) were "corrected" by removing my slave cylinder
return spring (which you do not have, I think,because they dropped this in the
early '60s). When you move it into the retracted position by hand, does the
first pump on the pedal give you "clutch feeling" or "empty pedal" feeling?
When you first *feel* clutch (and not just empty pedal) what is the position
of the pins that connect your cross shaft to your operating lever? The outer
one should be due verticle, and the inner one should be perfectly horizontal.
Be certain that you didn't just shear one of these two pins, as well.
> One other symptom. By pushing down on the clutch I could get the clutch to slip
> enough to come to a stop without killing the engine (one foot on the clutch, one
> on the brake- firmly, and one on the allerator linkage. I guess I had better
> order a new disk while I'm at it.
Does the clutch feel completely normal? Any stickiness, crunching, grinding,
or "brake-like" feelings (i.e. does it ever feel like it gets stiff?)
>
> My best guess:
>
> I think a spring in the diaphram may have gone.
>
> Backup guess:
> the shift fork broke
> Arm chair trouble shooting guesses welcome. results will be posted.
yeah, or the collar could have disintegrated, or the cross shaft splines are
shot.....(or the above-i.e. that one of your pins connecting the operating
lever to the cross shaft is sheared, and still barely working)....or.....
> Why me?
well, i hate to say this, and you probably don't want to hear it from
me, but this may just be what you get for lurking while Nigel pleads for
sympathy and suggestions (let this be a lesson to you, Jan). As I've
said before, Nigel has "special powers".....I think that so far he's
caused a few axles to snap, lights to blow, hub seals to leak, and now
(alas) he's taken your clutch....all just days after he himself has
developed each of the above disorders. If I could, I'd find and break the
code through which his Secret Sollihull Society communicates,
but I fear that no man (or woman) that has not themselves been assembled
in that God-forsaken factory can do so without forever leaving the human
flesh and accepting the body and soul of an aluminium workhorse.
Having said this, I presume there will be an intense rush of orders to
unsubscribe.....it will do no good, NIGEL IS EVERYWHERE! He doesn't need
internet to communicate; space and time are transversed with infinite ease,
and he knows you and yours quite well, indeed. (Gheeze, maybe I'd better
not consider going to this OVLR birthday party, da Nige could easily be
set aflame in some sort of ritualistic sacrificial ceremony, while Dale,
Robin, Dixon, and the rest of you sick canadians do some sort of perverse
remdtion of the Virginia Reel, frothy cold ones in hand. ROLF!)
But seriously, my sympathies are with you, TeriAnn, as are my greasy
fingernails. Perhaps we are in for another east-west race?? (Don't
worry, I don't work in the mud either, only in the knee-deep horse shit!)
rd/that evil nigel thing
ps I also use a Lucas spell checker, but yours seems to work much better
than mine does. (I thunk, anyway *:) )
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 18:45:44 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: BANG! Date: 25 Apr 1994 23:35:05 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9404252117.AA23248@apple.com>, TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> wrote: >Sigh, >I was sitting at a traffic light in The Green Rover when there was a loud bang >and the car jurked forward. Lucally I was at the front of the line and the >light had just turned green. It felt like someone had hit me from behing, but >it was just the clutch engaging quickly with the peddle to the floor. > >I pulled off the side of the road and got out in the driving rain to check >things over. I pulled the cover off the top of the peddle assembly. The top >mechanical linkage looked good. I leaned over the clutch resavor and checked >the fluid in the new master cylinder..full. Had my roommate pump the clutch >peddel. Everything looked normal on top. Next I pulled the passenger side >floor, transmission hump and the sheet metal in front if it exposing the slave >cylinder and mechanical linkage. i pushed on the clutch peddel and watched the >lower linkage work. Hmmm. It seems the linkage is extending properly but not >retracting very far when the peddle is released. > >I can hand push the linkage back into the retracted posistion. Push on the >clutch and have the lower linkage move properly. Relase it and it only retracts >part way. Nothing I can do to quickly fix it. I started he in gear and drive >home grumbling all the way. I ignored her Sunday. I guess I'm not enough of an >enthusiast to lay in the mud to pull the drive shafts and lower bolts. I am not >relishing moving that heavy transmission/transfer case about.. > >One other symptom. By pushing down on the clutch I could get the clutch to slip >enough to come to a stop without killing the engine (one foot on the clutch, one >on the brake- firmly, and one on the allerator linkage. I guess I had better >order a new disk while I'm at it. > >My best guess: > >I think a spring in the diaphram may have gone. > When this happened to me, I still had clutch pedal travel (full travel), the clutch just didn't disengage fully. If you don't have the spring on the slave cyl., then you will always be able to push the rod back up into the cyl. -- free play. but I think you are talking about more than usual. >Backup guess: >the shift fork broke > Naw, its too robust >Arm chair trouble shooting guesses welcome. results will be posted. > Odds are, one of the clevis pins on the cross shaft sheared. That would give you some pedal, but not enough travel. Outside one easy, the inside one, a bit of a teaser. Careful not to drop the bits into the bell housing! >Why me? > > Got paid that day? Extra $$ in your checking account? My truck always knows :-( Randy Rose rsrose@puck.caltech.edu Blessed (or cursed) with a 107 Series I Station Wagon, but have had a '66 109 pick-up (among others).
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 25 20:14:51 1994 Subject: Re: BANG! To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 11:06:25 NZT From: Hugh Grierson <hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9404251712.C29106-a100000@gidney.oswego.edu>; from "Steven M Denis" at Apr 25, 94 5:38 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 628 Status: RO > >The pins in the crosshaft sleeve sometimes snap...you can(sorta) replace > them with the car assembled,one is hidden in by the bellhousing boot > the other is visable at the inside edge of the bracket A couple of times I've had the crossshaft sleeve crack along its length. It's easy enough to spot from underneath while someone operates the clutch. I replaced it with the tranny et al still in, but that inner pin is tricky. The initial symptoms were slightly different though; it was less sudden than you described, more like a badly spinning clutch for a couple of gear changes, followed quickly by complete failure.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:52:26 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: looking for a used Land Rover in Southern California
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 23:56:48 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Lou Pendley <loup@SMTP.QUESTS.COM> writes:
> I'm looking to buy a used Land Rover Series II - III probably a 109
> station wagon.
Compared to 88's, these are getting pretty far and few between.
You are not the only person seeking one of these, there is at least
two people up here in the Ottawa Valley looking for one, as well as
a person in the Toronto club. The difficult question sometimes is
that I think I know of one, but is it worth pursuing it to buy as a
parts vehicle, or getting it to pass onto someone who will restore
it. Body parts are getting difficult to obtain for 109 Station
Wagons over here...
> If you know of any dealers or private parties that are selling any let
> me know. I'm looking to restore it myself and don't want to pay top
> dollar - I want a fixer upper with integrity.
Usually body wise they are fine. The frame is shot. There was a
doormobile for sale up here last year for about 1-2k, but the
internal equipment was gone and the frame wasn't very pretty.
> Why is it that the majority of Land Rovers seem to be in the New
> England?
Probaqbly just as many, if not more in central-eastern Canada. The
other big concentration is in the US northwest/British Columbia.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:55:47 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: RE:107/109 etc, etc, etc
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:03:43 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> writes:
> Well,...I might be guilty of that fer'sure,...However if I were "Oral
> Retentive",would'nt I be looking for "Mamas" and be working on getting a
> corvette or something? I mean, a Series I ,107 or 109 isn't a "Babe
> magnet"!..........or is it?....Does anyone have any insight on the "Sex
> appeal" of a Land Rover? (Ladies,feel free to jump in here!) (I will get
> an "A" in psych yet!)
I will type in the Range Rover review from GQ magazine sometime. A
woman writer rated a bunch of vehicles for their ability for
onboard sex (Range Rover came first, something about lost of "head"
room) and a couple of friends have expressed interest in supplying
info on a Land Rover comparison... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:59:08 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Strange clunk...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:08:22 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com> writes:
> I get a sound like you describe once and awhile. I've diagnosed mine
> as worn spring bushings. This happens more frequently the colder it
> is. It usually happens when cornering.
Good idea, but this was down straight, well fairly straight,
sections of highway with a temperature in the mid 50's.
(Unfortunately not the more usual tundra-like environment that we
all know and love up here.)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:51:50 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Strange clunk...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:18:51 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) writes:
> While I've had several clinks over the years that could match your
> description, I recently had one which was traced to the handbrake (although
> it sounded a lot more mechanical than I would believe the hand brake could
> be).
Dissassembling the whole mechanism is about the only way we have
found up here to make the gearbox brake to work for any appreciable
amount of time. When you get the whole thing out and take a look
at it, most of the mechanism is in really bad shape. They can be
overhauled without any new parts, but it is a bit of work.
> Anyone have any magic for keeping that big pivot from seizing (this is the
> second time in the last year it's done that).
Have you pulled it all apart yet and throughly cleaned it & lubes
well with anti-sieze?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:50:20 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Strange clunk...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:23:01 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> writes:
> I have had a similar problem,it turned out to be a broken return spring on
> the hand brake shoes. The shoe would bounce out and "cam" aganst the
> drum,and cause a clunk as it jammed the drum. I guess that it would get
> thrown back by the shock and stick on the glop on the backing plate
> (output shaft seal? what out put shaft seal?)
> If all else fails take a look ya' never know....
Will take a look, but somehow I don't think so. The brake system
was redone last year and milage on the vehicle sine then probably
doesn't go much about 500 miles. The seals have all been replaced,
and there is only signs of a blown seal in the right rear hub seal
which is making a lovely spoked wheel pattern on the wheel rim.
(Gotta check those breathers on the axles...)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:51:55 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Homemade Soft top and Who is Nigel anyway?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:26:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:
> Nigel would gladly accept the invitation, but Russell will have to read it
> for him (he is clairvoiant, however, so I'm sure all you need to do is think
> the thought and he'll get the message). Russell needs to give Nigel a new
> clutch before he can go anywhere (and it would seem that he has *plenty* of
> time to do this).
The Swamp Beast outside informs me that Nigel would very much like
to attend the serious bogging and festivities up in Canada. In
fact I am hearing from several other Land Rovers about here that
Nigel has been in constant communication with them. Something
about neglect and a clutch... Better get to it... :-)
> *This* is your idea of a fun evening, is it?? Perhaps I'll have to bring
> my spurs. I'll also need a quick lesson in the "two step" (but I can do a
> kick-ass promenade and do-see-do).
Well... You gotta meet Dale... I am one of the more sane people in
OVLR. Really! It's true!
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:50:28 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Vapor Lock
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:30:57 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes:
> Twice now in the growing heat of TX after a high speed trip and sitting for
> a bit I have been struck with what I think is vapor lock. The car starts
> idles then dies as if it ran out of gas. Then it won't restart.
I'll bet you it is your coil. Keep a spare in the Rover, and when
it happens next time, change the coil over and see what happens.
> specs - 2.25 liter, weber carb 34ich, mechanical fuel pump
Same set up as mine, and a good number of other vehicles. I have
not heard of vapour lock with the Weber. With SU's on Mini's and
Volvo's yes, 34ich Webers, no.
> Dixon - I haven't seen any sign of you accessing the Rover web. Do you have
> a direct internet link? If so I was hoping to get a few picture of one of
> your adventures on the web.
fourfold is a uucp site. I would have to uuencode the .GIF's and
send them on. What type of resolution is generally aceptable? I
have an HP desk scanner at workk that I an feed these into, though
to get good quality, the resulting file tends to be quite large. I
am working on a live feed, but it can be difficult to wrangle...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:52:30 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Spring Stuff
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 00:35:44 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> Someone asked last week if there was a torque figure for the spring shackle
> bolts. Well, I just happened to be thumbing through my Series III manual and
> low and behold there it is (for new spring replacement):
Maybe Series III, but no where in the IIA manual does it come
anything close to this. The factory manual says to put the springs
on, more or less tighten them up, then rock the bvehicle
forward/backwards and side to side a bit then tighten them down.
No torque settings are supplied.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 06:56:42 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Vapor Lock To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 10:40:48 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199404251740.MAA09066@smtp.utexas.edu>; from "Greg Hiner" at Apr 25, 94 12:42 pm Status: RO The percieved wisdom over here,is to remove the inline fuel filter altogether.You dont need it,there is one in the pump. Also ensure that the fuel line is run where it was originally, *not* as I have recently seen,over the top of the engine.It should go round the front of the engine.This should cure the problem. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 08:38:06 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Strange clunk... To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 9:25:43 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <3wDDLc6w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Apr 26, 94 12:23 (midnight) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> writes: > > > I have had a similar problem,it turned out to be a broken return spring on > > the hand brake shoes. The shoe would bounce out and "cam" aganst the > > drum,and cause a clunk as it jammed the drum. I guess that it would get > > thrown back by the shock and stick on the glop on the backing plate > > (output shaft seal? what out put shaft seal?) > > If all else fails take a look ya' never know.... > > Will take a look, but somehow I don't think so. The brake system > was redone last year and milage on the vehicle sine then probably > doesn't go much about 500 miles. The seals have all been replaced, > and there is only signs of a blown seal in the right rear hub seal > which is making a lovely spoked wheel pattern on the wheel rim. > (Gotta check those breathers on the axles...) > > Rgds, > > Dixon > Dixon- Steve was talking about the tranny brake, no? rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 10:18:11 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 26 Apr 94 14:40:48 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vapor Lock Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg writes: > Twice now in the growing heat of TX after a high speed trip and sitting for a bit I have been struck with what I think is vapor lock. The car starts idles then dies as if it ran out of gas. Then it won't restart. So far what seems to fix it is taking off the gas pipe at the carb and fiddling with the primer on the fuel pump to make sure gas is coming up the pipe and then plug it back in and then it usually works (of course maybe just the time it takes to do this is what fixes it.)... > I had a similar problem with my IIA 88. I checked the fuel pump pressure which I believe should be about 3psi. My pump was putting out .75psi. The important thing about having proper fuel pressure aside from providing fuel flow is that the pressure helps prevent the fuel from boiling. Kind of like LPG on a somewhat lesser scale. I don't know if this is your fix but I hope it helps. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 11:30:57 1994
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:18:27 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: BANG!
Status: RO
In message <9404252315.AA08092@apple.com> Russell G. Dushin writes:
> TeriAnn writes:
> > I pulled off the side of the road and got out in the driving rain to check
> > things over. I pulled the cover off the top of the peddel assembly. The
> > top
> > mechanical linkage looked good. I leaned over the clutch resavor and
> > checked
> > the fluid in the new master cylinder..full. Had my roommate pump the clutch
> >
> > peddel. Everything looked normal on top. Next I pulled the passenger side
> >
> > etc.
>
> you could get to the top of the pedal ass'y without removing your wing?? (or
> did you once say you cut your wing so's you could more easily access this
> general area?)
When I converted to the series III power duel brakes and series III master
clutch cylinder I made a common series III mod. I cut the top of the wing at
the mounting flange for the splash shield and panio hinged the cut pice back
onto the wing top. This was done after carving the inside back & top of the
wing to seies III dimensions. Now if I need access to the master clutch
cylinder, I undo a top bolt at the back of the wing and swing the rear top of
the wing out of the way. I keep meaning to write up the conversion process but
things like broken pushrods on the MGBGT and nonfunctional clutches tend to keep
me buisy.
>
> >Hmmm. It seems the linkage is extending properly but not
> > retracting very far when the peddle is released.
> > I can hand push the linkage back into the retracted posistion. Push on the
> >
> > clutch and have the lower linkage move properly. Relase it and it only
> > retracts
> > part way.
> This may be normal. I have this same "problem", and my recent clutch woes
> (not
> including my current clutch woes) were "corrected" by removing my slave
> cylinder
> return spring (which you do not have, I think,because they dropped this in
> the
> early '60s). When you move it into the retracted position by hand, does the
> first pump on the pedal give you "clutch feeling" or "empty pedal" feeling?
> When you first *feel* clutch (and not just empty pedal) what is the position
> of the pins that connect your cross shaft to your operating lever? The outer
> one should be due verticle, and the inner one should be perfectly horizontal.
> Be certain that you didn't just shear one of these two pins, as well.
When the lower linkage is in the full retracted posistion, and I start to push
down the peddel, the lower mechanical linkage starts moving normally. I can see
both sides of the collor with pins and everything appears to be moving properly.
All the linkage is fully extended when the peddel is on the floor. The clutch
is mostly still engaged when the hydrolics are fully extended. When I let off
the peddel, the lower linkage only comes back 1/3rd to 1/2 the way. I believe
the clutch diaphram normally pushes the throwout bearing back which pushes the
lower linkage back to the fully retracted posistion.
Thus my theory of:
A. The diaphram is not returning to the fully engaged posistion
B. The throwout bearing assembly (with about 10K miles on it since renewing
is now shorter that it was
C. The arms that push the throwout bearing against the diaphram are now shorter
than they were.
The pins in the collar seem to be OK.
>
> > One other symptom. By pushing down on the clutch I could get the clutch to
> > slip
> > enough to come to a stop without killing the engine (one foot on the
> > clutch, one
> > on the brake- firmly, and one on the allerator linkage. I guess I had
> > better
> > order a new disk while I'm at it.
>
> Does the clutch feel completely normal? Any stickiness, crunching, grinding,
> or "brake-like" feelings (i.e. does it ever feel like it gets stiff?)
>
Its hard to say since it doesn't disengage & I never thought to try to stop the
cat without using the clutch. But the disc feels like its OK.
> >
> > My best guess:
> >
> > I think a spring in the diaphram may have gone.
> >
> > Backup guess:
> > the shift fork broke
> > Arm chair trouble shooting guesses welcome. results will be posted.
>
> yeah, or the collar could have disintegrated, or the cross shaft splines are
> shot.....(or the above-i.e. that one of your pins connecting the operating
> lever to the cross shaft is sheared, and still barely working)....or.....
>
> > Why me?
>
> well, i hate to say this, and you probably don't want to hear it from
> me, but this may just be what you get for lurking while Nigel pleads for
> sympathy and suggestions (let this be a lesson to you, Jan). As I've
> said before, Nigel has "special powers".....I think that so far he's
> caused a few axles to snap, lights to blow, hub seals to leak, and now
> (alas) he's taken your clutch....all just days after he himself has
> developed each of the above disorders.
Hmmmm sounds to me like Nigel needs to be excorsised then smelted down into BMW
parts. I don't take kindly for evil spirits going after The Green Rover. I
lurked because I had nothing to contribute. It looked like you had your hand
full with all the ruffians from up North kabitzing.
> But seriously, my sympathies are with you, TeriAnn, as are my greasy
> fingernails. Perhaps we are in for another east-west race?? (Don't
> worry, I don't work in the mud either, only in the knee-deep horse shit!)
Well, weather permitting, I plan to have the transmission pulled back from the
clutch this weekend. If its the clutch, I may be back on the road Sunday. If
its the throwout bearing or linkage I will need to make a parts order first.
>
> rd/that evil nigel thing
>
> ps I also use a Lucas spell checker, but yours seems to work much better
> than mine does. (I thunk, anyway *:) )
Well at least you are one of the FEW who can spell my name correctly. I once
had a person E-Mail me with a list of spelling corrections to one of my posts.
He mispelled my name. Oh well
Hire a priest to work on Nigel before I hire a with doctor to put him out of my
Green Rovers missery.
TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world
twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards
LINK: TWAKEMAN
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 10:35:09 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 10:23:29 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Vapor Lock - Summary Status: RO I thought I would summarize what I have heard as to my problem - ie engine stalling and not starting after a hot run. Thanks to all that responded- 1. The coil - 2 people mentioned that my coil might be getting too hot or is shot. As I replaced it last year I'm hoping that isn't it. 2. Fuel delivery probelms a. check the pickup in the tank as it might be getting plugged. b. remove the inline fuel filter and make sure the gas line runs in front of the engine as original and not over the top. I also was looking through the Aluminum Workhorse and one article in there mentions repeated vapor lock problems during an outing in CO I believe. The fix mentioned in that article was to go to an electric fuel pump. Greg
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 11:44:13 1994 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:30:04 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: BANG! Status: RO In message <199404252315.AA04437@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz> Hugh Grierson writes: > > >The pins in the crosshaft sleeve sometimes snap...you can(sorta) replace > > them with the car assembled,one is hidden in by the bellhousing boot > > the other is visable at the inside edge of the bracket > > A couple of times I've had the crossshaft sleeve crack along its > length. It's easy enough to spot from underneath while someone > operates the clutch. I replaced it with the tranny et al still in, but > that inner pin is tricky. The initial symptoms were slightly different > though; it was less sudden than you described, more like a badly > spinning clutch for a couple of gear changes, followed quickly by > complete failure. > Well, with all the pin and collar suggestions, I think I'll start my disasembly there and check over the pices very carefully before pulling the drive shafts, seat box then the MONSTER TRANSMISSION. I guess I should also take Steves advice and checkthe thrust washer by a pully push-pull test. I was supposed to be spending the spring finsihing the TR3's rebuild :*( Thanks for the suggestions TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 13:03:18 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 26 Apr 94 17:42:01 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Head Boiling Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steve writes: > Oh William.............!!!!! Please do not tell people to hot tank the cyl. heads on a 2.25...the plugs for the water jackets are poured metal(aluminum?) on the early heads and the caustic solution in the "boil out" tank will soften and loosen them!! :-0 > Steve, You are right that the early plugs can loosen up. What they are is a soft threaded aluminum plug that screws in. I spoke with Chris at RN this AM. Charlie relayed to him that the early screw-in plugs can loosen after hot tanking but that 9 out of 10 times they stay put. He said he uses a special tap to chase the threads before replacing the plug. He didn't know the thread size but did say that 3 customers had sent heads to them that had been boiled where the threaded plugs had loosened to have them replaced. My suggestion is to check with your machine shop and RN or other Rover parts supplier to determine your cyinder head type and plan of action before hot tanking. Thanks Steve. P.S. Steve, just to show my appreciation, the Kelly poetry will keep on coming - cornier than ever. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 13:25:12 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: Re: BANG! To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 14:15:16 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00646262.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at Apr 26, 94 1:37 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Sandy Grice writes: > What the ?%!&!...my clutch has just started acting up! > > Looks like I may have to attend the OVLR birthday bash...I'll be bringing > suds, a fiddle and MATCHES! :-) > I'm tellin' you folks, this is not the first, nor the second, nor the third time Nigel has done this..........I am just gonna have to have a long "heart-to-water pump" talk with this boy. An exorcism would also be appropriate. I can see it now, his cylinder head spinning about while a froth of oil, gasoline, and antifreeze spews forth from the top of the air cleaner. As for the melt-down, I think I'll pass for the moment (even though I could use the bmw parts). rd/nigel (let's just all keep thinking nice thoughts about him, aye?)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 20:44:30 1994
From: landrover@aol.com
Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com>
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 00:19:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Strange clunk...
Status: RO
Whoops... Dixon hears a clunk!!
> Last night, while driving the 70 odd kilometres from Almonte home,
> the Swamp Beast did something very strange. ABout seven times,
> while driving down paves tarmac roads there was a single clunk/
> crash from somewhere in the drive train. It was almost as if it
> was trying to go into 4wd or something. A similar effect would
> feel like a large metal object shifting its load into another metal
> object, but the winter ballast of engine, gearbox and other
assorted LR pieces have all been removed.
Hey... you aren't driving MY truck, are you??? :)
Only did it once??
Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 22:46:28 1994 From: unclebrad@aol.com Sender: "unclebrad" <unclebrad@aol.com> To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 03:04:49 EDT Subject: National Rally - Colorado Status: RO Most folks probably know about this rally, but it seems that the LROA,NA is going to offer another choice to those who might feel that they have driven themselves silly just getting there. The event is sponsored by Solihull Society, Blue Ridge Land Rover Club, and the LROA,NA. And at this point most of the organization has been done by Solihul & Blue Ridge. The BRLRC rep had occasion to be out in Colorado last fall & had a planning session with some of Solihull's group. The LROA,NA leadership is in California and wasn't represented. So, what did they come up with for a plan? Four days of off-road driving are scheduled, from Grand Junction, CO to Moab, UT to Alamosa, CO to Durango, CO &The Great Sand Dunes Ntional Monument. It's going to be a spectacular 4 days. For those who think that this might be more ambitious than they are up to, there will be a group leaving Grand Junction at the same time as the main group, but heading right to Durango. There will be day-trips out of Durango offered for the next couple of days until the main group arrives. So, those of you who think it's too much driving, this may be just the thing to help change your mind. David Ritchie is the BRLRC representative and you can reach him at 304-422-0531. I'm not sure whether he knows much about this secondary group so you can also reach Steve HIll, the LROA pres at 916-393-3767.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 22:45:04 1994 From: unclebrad@aol.com Sender: "unclebrad" <unclebrad@aol.com> To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 03:04:57 EDT Subject: how the outside sees us Status: RO I had a conversation with a friend of mine recently. He is aware of my unusual penchant for Land Rovers. When I mentioned the "internet group". his response was worth repeating: "I thought that Land Rover nuts must be rare enough birds, but now you're telling me that there are a bunch of Land Rover nuts who are also computer nerds??!!!"
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 15:09:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: book reviews From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 15:01:11 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well howdy folks, are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. The amil amn brought two books from the LRO shop today. First out of the package was "Prototype Land Rover Test Report" This has all the feel of the era, the page size is very long and quit narrow, the origional dinosaur typeset has been used, and the language, well it just reeks of middle class civil service! For anyone this report on how the early Land Rovers faired as farm work horses is a must in your coleection. These little vehciles were subjected to a whole gamut of tests from ploughing to rolling the fields and road runs. The test material only fills 21 pages plus a page for the photo and a whole slew of pages for various grpahs showing bhp and torque and other such data. It is a real blast and I am happy that I spent the 5 pounds to get it. It even comes bound in what must have been the style of the day. My favourite quote in the report comes from page 19, section 18 "In the course of the test it was found that the Land-Rovers were capable of being driven almost anywhere"! The other book that I got is called advertising Land-Rover, S1 & S2 '48 - '71. This baby cost 9.95 at the time. The book has a short history of the marque and some interesting, unpublished in some cases pictures in the front of the book. Then it launches into the "ballsy" kind of adverts that really sold alot of people on Land Rovers. These cover about 50 pages with the pictures on avout the first 19 or so. All in B & W but the pictures have a much better look that those Brooklands books ever have. The adverts are not only by Land Rover but also by companies who are showing of what they produce as used by Land Rover in their product line. There are plenty of line drawings and even a section showing what adverts dealers could have made up for them for the papers by Land Rovers art department. I hope that one day that Daniel Young the author would consider doing '71 onwards to say '94. He does touch on the series 3 in the adverts but only just. Some really classic looking vehilces are shown such as the 1 ton 109" regular and the forward control variants aswell. Again another good one for the library collection. Now all I am missing is the first two colour prints that I ordered, I guess they will show up in the next couple of days. Regards Incredibly Biased of Ottawa aka Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 15:11:14 1994
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 15:43:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Head Boiling
To: bill maloney <wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com>
Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <199404261745.NAA14658@transfer.stratus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On 26 Apr 1994, wmalon wrote:
> Steve writes:
> >
> Oh William.............!!!!!
> Please do not tell people to hot tank the cyl. heads on a 2.25...the plugs
> for the water jackets are poured metal(aluminum?) on the early heads and
> the caustic solution in the "boil out" tank will soften and loosen them!!
> :-0
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> You are right that the early plugs can loosen up. What they are is a soft
> threaded aluminum plug that screws in. I spoke with Chris at RN this AM.
> Charlie relayed to him that the early screw-in plugs can loosen after hot
> tanking but that 9 out of 10 times they stay put. He said he uses a special
> tap to chase the threads before replacing the plug. He didn't know the thread
> size but did say that 3 customers had sent heads to them that had been boiled
> where the threaded plugs had loosened to have them replaced.
>
> My suggestion is to check with your machine shop and RN or other Rover parts
> supplier to determine your cyinder head type and plan of action before hot
> tanking.
>
> Thanks Steve.
>
> P.S. Steve, just to show my appreciation, the Kelly poetry will keep on
comming
Well, I do not want to argue with charlie (he picks great resturants,)BUT
the EARLY heads are poured NOT threaded!!!! it happens that I can't afford
the LUXURY of a late 2A.....62'-63' stuff for me.... some people can afford
the bite on a limestone 76' 109 sw......(Brat...)I guess that one should
use care when "tanking" a head,or any part for that matter....
And folks,Bill here is tring to muscle in on my sweety("Look how much room
there is here in THE BACK of my 109.....<innocent smile...>...I'll bet you
could LAY DOWN in here....<not so innocent leer..>wanna' try???...)what
should I do??? Should I lock all the inside locks on the wagon and slam
the doors?....(surely,some of you have done that....what a way to impress a
date..)
steve...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 15:34:48 1994 From: brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 16:21:23 EDT To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Tires and such Status: RO I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again... Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16" rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask. Aside: Bad news on the LR parts situation. Everyone was a bit concerned when BMW came in but something even worse has happened. I received an RN shipment yesterday and it included a new horn that was made in *France*. What is the world coming to? :-) monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 17:57:32 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: book reviews To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 18:48:45 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <okieLc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 26, 94 3:01 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Robin writes: > > The other book that I got is called advertising Land-Rover, S1 & S2 '48 - > '71. > > This baby cost 9.95 at the time. The book has a short history of the > marque and some interesting, unpublished in some cases pictures in the > front of the book. Then it launches into the "ballsy" kind of adverts > that really sold alot of people on Land Rovers. These cover about 50 > pages with the pictures on avout the first 19 or so. All in B & W but the > pictures have a much better look that those Brooklands books ever have. > The adverts are not only by Land Rover but also by companies who are > showing of what they produce as used by Land Rover in their product line. > There are plenty of line drawings and even a section showing what adverts > dealers could have made up for them for the papers by Land Rovers art > department. > Is the ad with the slogan "At 40 mph all you will hear is the roar of the engine" in there?? VROOOOOOOOOM! rd/nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 00:20:09 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 20:00:31 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Ok people, we seem to have some real good answers to some trivia questions these days. So to sort the men out from the girls how about these ones:- Land Rover 500,001, ran of the line in Apr '66. I foyu look at the pictures of the vehicle in books you will notice that it has a non standard grille affair. Why and for market / purpose? Has there been any articles in any magazines on the Mulliners minibus prottypes? OK that is it for the minute, cant find any other stumpers yet. Please post replies on the main system rather than directly to me, that way we can all enjoy this stuff. Thanks Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 26 20:28:11 1994 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 19:16:29 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Bits and Parts Status: RO Has nayone caught the Mobilnet (cell phone) company commercials that are using Land Rovers and a Range Rover? I saw them the other night. Not bad. Done in a very nice black and white. Last Friday I took a spare head to my machinist to compare with the one with the heat checks. The heat checks were on the edge of the 2 and 3 cylinders by the exshaust valve. No surprise in terms of location. They were about 3/4 of an inch in length. The suggestion was to pin them and go ahead and use the head. Machinist wasn't thrilled with that suggestion. He said the problem with pinning is that the hole drilled is a taper, so as to hold the pin and he felt that the taper and the pin put outward forces on the head and would eventually crack some more. I am going to use the spare head. Indeed the holes in the head of the IIA is poured aluminum. The shop cleaned my head in a special aluminum vat and the top of the plug clearly shows the pour marking as opposed to machine or hammer marks. I am close to having the entire engine finished. When I do I will post a list and prices to the net as to how much everything was. Without the complete finals fiqures I think my bill will be lower than Bill's. We shall see. For you electrical wizards out there. I am still having electrical trouble in my Series I. She just doesn't want to start. I replaced the starter switch, it was bad. Now I can't get voltage across the new switch to the starter. I have isolated all other components of the system. When I put voltage straight to the starter it turns. Try the switch, no dice. It measured good continuity so it should pass the voltage. I even added a ground strap to the starter and cleaned the battery ground. I also started looking for opens and shorts in the other systems, fixed some, no help. The switch is the same as the old in appearence but is probably a IIA. Is it possible that the switch is directly. There is no indication on the body of it that it has to have one side battery the other starter. The other thing that happens is that when the other things are in the system they seem to operate ok but when I hit that starter switch they all go out, no voltage. I am going to put everything back as she was and start over. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Does anyone remember the episode of China Beach where the French doctor and the redhead nurse use the back of his Rover for some horizontal recreation? Great looking Rover. Seemed to be all original and unrestored. I also have a couple book comments. In the last RN newsletter was bit from David Thodal regarding a book he found titled Land Rovers. Well David was kind enough to send it up for me to read. Should be fun. He also sent the Bob Morrison book on military Rovers. Pretty interesting with some good B/W photos and very good color. Read all of the cut lines on the photos and will catch the text after reading Land Rovers. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 03:33:13 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Tires and such
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 00:02:02 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com writes:
> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again...
> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16"
> rims? Sizes, makes, etc.
A couple of questions and answers back. How original do you wish
to remain? The 88's came with 15" tyres. Many people have
obtained 109 16" rims and tossed the 15"s. 15" rims from the IIA
etc. are becoming desirable in the UK according to one conversation
that I had recently with a fellow over there. 16" tyres are more
limited in availability in North America as they are a non-standard
size for the American market currewntly. If you want SATs, you
have to get them from the UK. With new rims you don't need tubes,
but if you are going to run through muck, tubes could be
advantageous.
> Aside: Bad news on the LR parts situation. Everyone was a bit
> concerned when BMW came in but something even worse has happened.
> I received an RN shipment yesterday and it included a new horn
> that was made in *France*. What is the world coming to? :-)
Who needs a horn in a Land Rover? Generally the presence of the
109 in the morning rush hour is enough to keep people away... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 03:33:31 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Strange clunk... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 00:10:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 03:32:19 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: BANG!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 00:16:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:
> and he knows you and yours quite well, indeed. (Gheeze, maybe I'd better
> not consider going to this OVLR birthday party, da Nige could easily be
> set aflame in some sort of ritualistic sacrificial ceremony, while Dale,
> Robin, Dixon, and the rest of you sick canadians do some sort of perverse
> remdtion of the Virginia Reel, frothy cold ones in hand. ROLF!)
Nige only goes up he he can't handle the SAAB pull. Then it is
only a simple exercism ceremony on the driver, as we know that the
poor aluminium workhorse is completely innocent. Besides, the
Swamp Beast told me only yesterday that Nige is acting up because
you still have doubts about the Birthday Party...
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. We don't do the "Virginia Reel" up here. Strictly the Maple
Leaf Forever and God Save the Queen. Cold frothy ones are
generally at hand however during these ceremonies.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 03:32:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: One new spring From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 00:22:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 00:22:05 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Tires and such
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 26 Apr 94 16:21:23 PDT."
<9404262018.AA08108@easynet.crl.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 22:02:52 PDT
Status: RO
In message <9404262018.AA08108@easynet.crl.dec.com> you write:
>
> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again...
> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16"
> rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running
> tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are
> so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones
> and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask.
The tires that I have on my rims are tubeless and are 15"
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
A
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 00:35:32 1994 From: landrover@aol.com Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com> To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 01:09:08 EDT Subject: RE: BANG! Status: RO TeriAnn contemplates..... Well, with all the pin and collar suggestions, I think I'll start my disasembly there and check over the pices very carefully before pulling the drive shafts, seat box then the MONSTER TRANSMISSION. I guess I should also take Steves advice and checkthe thrust washer by a pully push-pull test. I was supposed to be spending the spring finsihing the TR3's rebuild :*( That bit about the thrust washers is a long shot, but Steve's right and it did happen to my Spitfire about 10 years ago. Just two weeks after replacing the clutch, too. Hopefully, that's NOT your problem because it does very nasty things to the block and crank!! Nasty, nasty things... Good Luck! Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 03:25:05 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Bits and Parts To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 9:11:38 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404270116.AA02054@mtnoca.helena_noc>; from "ROY CALDWELL" at Apr 26, 94 7:16 pm Status: RO Roy, Does the S1 have a solenoid?If so,that may be the problem.You could try pushing the solenoid manually.If that works,its the switch,or a loose connection thereon.We had exactly this fault on a S111 last week.Measuring continuity with a meter is a waste of time,as I found out when trying to make my interior light work. A meter will register a "good" conact,but the joint isnt necessarily man enough to take the current. Hope this helps Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 08:54:51 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 08:40:46 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: Tires and such Status: RO >In message <9404262018.AA08108@easynet.crl.dec.com> you write: >> >> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again... >> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16" >> rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running >> tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are >> so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones >> and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask. > The tires that I have on my rims are tubeless and are 15" > >Benjamin Smith >ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu >A Ditto - Greg
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 05:28:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: The Civilised Rover To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 11:16:48 BST Status: RO Another irrelevancy,this,in a way,but if anyone objects,just say and I'll stop it. Father had a Rover 14.Its not the first car I can remember him having, that was an SS1,the precursor to the Jaguar.It had,as I recall,a loooong bonnet,but when you opened it there was a tiny four cyl sode valve Standard eight engine completely lost inside it.It also had leather gaiters on the brake lever,and when he went through a puddle, you got water straight up you trouser leg on the passenger side. It was a rakish car,but a wimp.All piss and vinegar. The Rover was,well,dignified.Sober.I dont know when it was built,just pre-war I should think,but it was equipped with every comfort that the price would allow(and I dont think they were cheap when new).This wasnt new of course.It was a "six light saloon",ie you counted the windows down the side and multiplied by two.Front door,one,back door,one,and a little 'un behind that.Four light saloons were considered "sporty", like the Rover 75.Not *quite* the sort of thing a civil servant would drive.The 14 was RAC horse power rating,which was a formula picked,it seemed,out of thin air,and which buggered up engine design for donkeys years,because it was used as a road tax basis. This car was leather seated(of course),and had real wood everywhere. It sported a free wheel feature,a three inch diameter handwheel under the dash (walnut) on the driver's side.Operating this enable the car to free wheel downhill,and without effort from the driver,it would motor uphill,when the road speed fell below the relevant engine speed.If this sounds familiar,it should,because it was used on the early Series One, which had permanent 4WD.Unfortunately the only time father used this, he came home without the car.*It* was in a local vilage garage having broken a half shaft on taking up the strain.Relaions were a little strained,I remember,and the free wheel was *never* again used. If you switched on the ignition,but didnt start the engine,and pressed a little button below the fuel gauge,the fuel gauge would register the oil level in the sump.Wouldnt this be a nice addition to the Range Rover? I know it used to fascinate me,but I really got a thick ear when I tried it with the engine running,and told him he was out of oil. Every three thousand miles or so,when out for a spin(one did,you know) another button,when pushed,would lubricate the chassis for you with engine oil.At your leisure,you could then top up the sump. The feature I *really* liked,and which could with advantage be used on Defender models,was the drivers side window winder.As you know,the trafficators of the time were semaphore arms with a little light inside. In theory,you flcked the switch over on the steering wheel boss,and the little arm would pop out of the door pillar all lit up.Centralise it and the arm rehoused itself with a solid clunk.In practice you oprated the switch,turned round in the seat,and gave the door pillar a good thump. The arm would crawl into the horizontal.Cancel,and the light would go out, and the arm would droop.You then opened the window and recoveredf it. This gave rise to the need for hand signals.If it was raining you got wet, furiously twiddling the winder.Rover solved this by having,instead of a crank handle,an arm,about a foot long,if memory serves,all nicely chrome plated.With the window up,the arm was horizontal.Push the arm down 45 degrees,and the window was down.I *wish* this feature was available on modern cars.Electric windows take an age to open and shut,and crank winders are as bad,but more reliable.I reverse vehicles with my head out of the window,which,with the Land Rover,is just a matter of sliding the glass forward,poking my head out,do the biz,haed in,shut window. Damp,but not drowned.You cant do that in a coil sprung,so you get wet through.That pre-war Rover's driver side winder mechanism woudld be a boon. One last thing and you can all wake up.At the time of the Coronation, father,feeling patriotic,made a little flagpole which he mounted on the radiator cap(external in those days you remember).It was always a great sadness to him that he couldnt get a radiator cap incorporating the wonderful Vikings head mascot that Rovers used on cars slightly older than his.He then bought a little Union Flag,and drove around with it fluttering in the breeze.The nature of his work took him to a good many RAF and USAF stations in his area.The problem was that when he drove up in this car with flag flying they *would* turn out the guard,present arms,the lot.Even when he covered the flag in a little bag,an eagle eyed gate guard would think here was an officer trying to catch him out,and the whole palaver was gone through again.The final embarrasment was in the street;where he thought himself safe.A column of troops,marching the other way,gave him a smart eyes right on command and the officer in charge saluted.He was so embarassed that he didnt go back to that town for a year.The flag,and the pole went in the bin. cheers Mike rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 09:49:14 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 27 Apr 94 14:21:35 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Tires & Such Content-Type: Text Status: RO Monty writes: > I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again... Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16" rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask. > Monty, I don't know what's best but I'll share with you what I'm using. On the 88 I have Sears 235/75R15 ATs (tubeless). They ride pretty well, are good in the rain and seem to wear OK. They are a compromise off road and I would expect them to be useless in mud. But in last week's flyer they were on sale again for $69.00. On the 109 I have the same tire in 7.50 R15. It has the same pros & cons as above but rides MUCH MUCH better than the bias tires that were on it. They were about $89.00 the last time I saw them on sale through the catalog, but I have not seen them listed in the NJ retail stores for awhile. They seem to hold air pretty well without tubes. I run 37 psi in the 88 and 42 psi in the 109. I don't know about the Sears by you but if you pick them up at the retail store I would recommend you have them mounted elsewhere. The mechanics in our local Sears are animals and could care less about the damage they do to your tires and rims during mounting. Oh, another benefit of 15" tires aside from lower cost and better availability is that they don't give you the hernia that 16" wheels do when you try to lift them. I hope this helps. Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 10:08:46 1994
From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon)
Date: 27 Apr 94 14:55:43 GMT
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Cc: mordor!fangorn!oswego!Oswego.EDU!denis@njncaps.attmail.com
Message-Service: mail
Subject: Steve's Sweetie
Content-Type: Text
Status: RO
Steve writes:
>
And folks,Bill here is tring to muscle in on my sweety("Look how much room
there is here in THE BACK of my 109.....<innocent smile...>...I'll bet you
could LAY DOWN in here....<not so innocent leer..>wanna' try???...)what
should I do??? Should I lock all the inside locks on the wagon and slam
the doors?....(surely,some of you have done that....what a way to impress a
date..)
steve...
>
Steve,
Don't forget to tell her I've got new springs in the back. And mine is MUCH
quieter than yours. And my boiled head is much cleaner. And my tool box is
much bigger. And I'm MUCH MUCH younger. And better looking too. And...
Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 10:48:53 1994
From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon)
Date: 27 Apr 94 15:36:47 GMT
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Cc: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU
Message-Service: mail
Subject: Steve's Sweetie
Content-Type: Text
Status: RO
Steve writes:
>
And folks,Bill here is tring to muscle in on my sweety("Look how much room
there is here in THE BACK of my 109.....<innocent smile...>...I'll bet you
could LAY DOWN in here....<not so innocent leer..>wanna' try???...)what
should I do??? Should I lock all the inside locks on the wagon and slam
the doors?....(surely,some of you have done that....what a way to impress a
date..)
steve...
>
Steve,
Don't forget to tell her I've got new springs in the back. And mine is MUCH
quieter than yours. And my boiled head is much cleaner. And my tool box is
much bigger. And I'm MUCH MUCH younger. And better looking too. And...
Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 11:18:21 1994
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 12:06:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Tires and such
In-Reply-To: <199404271338.IAA05313@smtp.utexas.edu>
Status: RO
>>> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again...
>>> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16"
>>> rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running
>>> tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are
>>> so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones
>>> and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask.
I have the origional 16" wheels with rivets, I just pulled off some second hand
750 bias recaps with tubes. Each tire was a different diameter and two
were square and two were triangular. I had to wear a helmet in the
morning, to keep from bouncing off the roof of the cab.
We mounted newer radials---"tubeless"--and they are absolutely wonderful.
So far, so good---no leaks---and it rides and drives like a dream cloud.
I couldn't believe the difference.
Sorta like, before it drove like a 63 international travel-all-----
----but now it handles like a "LOTUS".
I got a hell of a deal on the tires. This guy took these almost new
firestone radials off his RV, cause he has more money than brains. I
told him that I would give him $10.00 apiece for them. He said he had to
get more than that.
He thought about it for a minute, and said he had to get $70.00 for all 6.
It took 3 milleseconds to count out the cash.
Oh yes, just remember, you can't use regular tubes with radial tires.
They must be radial tubes.
I spoke with good ol'Bill, from Tom Dentice tire center "The working
man's friend" when I had the radials mounted. We decided to try these
without tubes. He cleaned up the beads on the wheels and the hole for
the stem. No leaks at all. Nadda, not...none
Soooooo--it seems that 16" Rover wheels can be tubeless.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
"YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium
++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/
,.________________.
/~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~}
/ // } } "67-109"
[]]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP
[]]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============|
____=========_____------| | |
| |/|@) (@| | | | |
| ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ |
| |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ |
|____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_||
|___________________|[ } |[ ]
\ / \ \ / \\ }
~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 11:24:23 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 09:08:18 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Tires and such Status: RO In message <9404270502.AA16770@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> writes: > In message <9404262018.AA08108@easynet.crl.dec.com> you write: > > > > I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again... > > Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16" > > rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running > > tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are > > so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones > > and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask. > The tires that I have on my rims are tubeless and are 15" > > Benjamin Smith > ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu > A > Well 16 inch rims are the in thing and are generally considered to be more desirable than the 15 inch rims. I think of more concern should be the width of the rim. It seems the older ones were narrower than the newer ones which limited the tyres you could mount. My Land Rover originally had 16" narrow rims. I have replaced them with 15" wider wheels. I have more rubber on the ground, and the same tyre outside diameter that I had with the 16 inch rims. I did it because I wanted a bigger footprint so as not to bog down in the mud with a 109 full of manure. Wide 15 inch rims were available for a price I couldn't resist. I think the case for the wider rims is that rim is lighter than tyre and for the same diameter tyre it makes for less unsprung weight. A reason to keep tubes is that in boggy or sandy situations your tyres will work better if the pressure is low. Under those circumstances, you might lose your tubless seal. Besides used tube material comes in handy for mounting TR3 and MGB petrol tanks. You can wrap a jack in a length of innertube and keep it in the boot without it scratching up the boot. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 11:25:03 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 09:09:56 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Subject: Re: Bits and Parts Status: RO >Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir? >I hit that starter switch they all go out, no voltage. Roy, The "starter" side of your switch is shorted to ground. R, Bill G.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 12:05:08 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 09:45:46 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Tires and such Status: RO >I think of more concern should be the width of >the rim. It seems the older ones were narrower than the newer ones which >limited the tyres you could mount. My Land Rover originally had 16" narrow >rims. I have replaced them with 15" wider wheels. I have more rubber on the >ground, and the same tyre outside diameter that I had with the 16 inch rims. I >did it because I wanted a bigger footprint so as not to bog down in the mud... I have a set of 9" wide 16" rims for the 109 that Dick Cepek (back when it was a 100 sq ft store) had made back in the 60s. He used to buy the centers from Land Rover and have them welded into 9" wide truck rims. We have 11" wide Armstrongs (really worn out now) mounted on them. Steering effort is tremendous but they are great in mud and sand (even the dunes). >A reason to keep tubes is in boggy or sandy situations your tyres will work >better if the pressure is low. Under those circumstances, you might lose your >tubless seal. That is always a worry but I have run them as low as 10 lbs in sand and mud without ever breaking a bead. I also run them low sometimes on hard rock, they seem to grab better there too. Five years ago the selection of 16" tires was pretty bad but in the last year or two the availability of 16s has really increased. Me, I am kind of partial to Armstrong Norseman radials, their only downpoint is that they are relatively short lived on pavement (< 20k miles). -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * bellas@gamma.tti.com *
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 13:26:51 1994
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 13:41:41 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Tires and Camels
Status: RO
Dixon writes:
>16" tyres are more limited in availability in North America as they are a
>non-standard size for the American market currently.
GM now uses 16" tires as standard on some of their larger pickups, and as a
result, 16's have become quite common. In fact, virtually every
manufacturer now carries them and their availability has never been greater
"south of the border". Go for the 16's, Monty. Despite the proliferation
of 'metric' sizes, 205-85R16, 235R-16 and 255R-16, the best choice for
tread width vs height is still the 7.50R-16. One of the club members just
bought some deeply lugged Cooper tires through his agricultural co-op: they
make the SAT's look like racing slicks by comparison. Great traction in
the mud but they howl like banshees on the road.
With regard to the tube/tubeless debate, my new 16 rims leaked through the
rivets, so I had to run with tubes. True, tubeless tires can be readily
repaired even without dismounting, but if you ever break the bead, you need
a quick blast of high pressure/volume air to reset them on the rim,
something you can't do in the field. Therefore, tubes make a bit more
sense, despite their bother to repair.
Make sure you get 'radial' tubes if running with radial tires. The
sidewall flexing of radials generates more heat, and the thicker rubber of
the radial tubes will withstand this. I once had a non-radial tube (and an
undersized one at that) blow in fourth gear overdrive...it made for a few
exciting moments on the superslab. The tire company bought a new tire to
cover their ass (which was really hanging out from a legal standpoint).
Okay, yesterday I posted one of the Camel Trophy problems about changing
tires (what a segue, eh?). Several wrote back suggesting the time-honored
"Mexican jack" (support the axle, dig a hole under the wheel) Fine, but too
slow in competition. Last year's Swiss team had the solution. As all
teams had two spares, one tire was wedged under the vehicle frame at an
angle; with the Disco driven forward slowly, the frontend could be quickly
raised sans jack.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 12:14:47 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=MACMGW/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 27 Apr 94 12:02:15 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: TAILGATES Status: RO ive been offered a tailgate for my 88 for a price of 150.00 . i need the oppions from those of you on the net who knows how much one of these things go for. ive already got the top off and im using the softtop so i think its only logical to get a tailgate.the really positive thing about this tailgate is that somewhere down the line it had belonged to my truck so their the same colour. any response would be appreciated. thx in advance
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 13:27:43 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Pricing of used 2.25 petrol engine? To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com (land rover list) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 13:11:13 CDT Status: RO Any opinions on what a fair price for a used (~80k miles) petrol 2.25 engine might go for? Pertinent facts: - removed in running condition 11 years ago (in favor of a diesel) - when running, it smoked on startup, but was otherwise ok - includes both manifolds, solex carb - includes starter - includes fuel pump - includes generator - stored inside since removed (with sparkplugs in place) - currently turns freely I have not seen it, only had verbal descriptions. Suggestions as to a fair price for me to offer the current owner? Dixon, I know you have three dozen of them sitting in the back field, so estimates like $10 a dozen don't count! :) Ray, didn't you just pick up a frozen 2.25 engine recently? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 13:35:33 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 27 Apr 94 18:23:21 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: TAILGATES Content-Type: Text Status: RO Someone writes: > ive been offered a tailgate for my 88 for a price of 150.00 . i need the oppions from those of you on the net who knows how much one of these things go for. ive already got the top off and im using the softtop so i think its only logical to get a tailgate.the really positive thing about this tailgate is that somewhere down the line it had belonged to my truck so their the same colour. any response would be appreciated. thx in advance > I think the price is kind of high. Mabey I'm off but I would think $75-$100 fould be fairer, if used and in very good shape. I bought one from a friend for $25 at a rally a couple of years ago. I had to straighten it out and it is a different color than the body but it works just fine and came with hardware. It's a shame your gate got separated from the truck and is now being sold back to you. Before I found my gate I was using one I built myself. I used gate hinges from the local Rickel Home Center, some aviation grade plywood, and 2 2X4s for the frame. Two sliding bolt locks held it in place. I sprayed it black and it looked pretty good. I hate to admit that it cost a couple of dollars more for the materials than for the used gate I replaced it with. Good luck. Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 00:23:37 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Pricing of used 2.25 petrol engine?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 00:22:18 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes:
> Any opinions on what a fair price for a used (~80k miles)
> petrol 2.25 engine might go for? Pertinent facts:
> - removed in running condition 11 years ago (in favor of a diesel)
> - when running, it smoked on startup, but was otherwise ok
Still $10... I paid $100Cdn, or $71 in the green stuff for a
running 2.25l two years ago. I re-ringed it a couple of weeks ago,
but that was both cheap and easy to do.
> Dixon, I know you have three dozen of them sitting in the back field,
> so estimates like $10 a dozen don't count! :)
I only have a few Series I 2l engines within fifty feet of me right
now. The 2.25l's are about 40 miles from here. The only major
problem with stuff like this is that it might be cheap around here,
if not free, but the cost of getting it to you outweighs your local
price.
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. Silence on replies from most of the last two days worth of
messages is due to a slight problem here on fourfold. Seems
my patched rmail allows it to write zero byte files when the
disk is full without looking for drive space. Opps... :-(
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From ccray Thu Apr 28 10:35:03 1994 Subject: Re: Pricing of used 2.25 petrol engine? (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:35:03 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1278 Status: RO Mark V Grieshaber was bold enough to point out... > >Any opinions on what a fair price for a used (~80k miles) >petrol 2.25 engine might go for? Pertinent facts: > > - removed in running condition 11 years ago (in favor of a diesel) > - when running, it smoked on startup, but was otherwise ok > - includes both manifolds, solex carb > - includes starter > - includes fuel pump > - includes generator > - stored inside since removed (with sparkplugs in place) > - currently turns freely > >Ray, didn't you just pick up a frozen 2.25 engine recently? > My $185 deal 200 miles away was about the same except frozen. I am humble to report that my wife nixed the deal and I didn't get it. Not only don't I have the engine but I had given my word to the guy that I was buying it. It was a hard phone call to tell him "sorry". I still scheme about acquiring it and feel I have good odds that it will eventually happen. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 15:39:37 1994
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 94 16:23:01 -0400
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: Tires and such
Status: RO
For what it's worth, the tire spec for my (nearing completion, more details
next week) 88 series IIa are Goodyear Wrangler MT radial tires - 215/85 x
16".
I know that the originals for my vintage were 15", but I wanted the taller
profile. I'm not sure if tubes will be used or not, I'll have to ask on
Friday when I head up to Roverworks.
Regards.
JAB
== ==
Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program
Technical Administrator New York University
berg@acf2.nyu.edu
=================
My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
Taste for the good life.
I can see it no other way.
Jimmy Buffett
== ==
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 17:04:31 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 17:50:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@css.itd.umich.edu> Subject: Re: TAILGATES To: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com> In-Reply-To: <199404271825.OAA28494@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I payed $100 to get the original tailgate for my 88 from the owner before the gentleman I bought mine from. So color matched and all... I didn't really try to bargin with him, the deal taking place through several intermediaries, though I may sell him the whole rover back (with $100 extra added on to what I really want just to even things out) --chris On 27 Apr 1994, wmalon wrote: > ive been offered a tailgate for my 88 for a price of 150.00 . i need the > oppions from those of you on the net who knows how much one of these things go > for. ive already got the top off and im using the softtop so i think its only > logical to get a tailgate.the really positive thing about this tailgate is > that somewhere down the line it had belonged to my truck so their the same > colour. any response would be appreciated. thx in advance > > > > I think the price is kind of high. Mabey I'm off but I would think $75-$100 > fould be fairer, if used and in very good shape. I bought one from a friend > for $25 at a rally a couple of years ago. I had to straighten it out and it > is a different color than the body but it works just fine and came with > hardware. It's a shame your gate got separated from the truck and is now > being sold back to you.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 27 18:29:55 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 17:12:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: tired To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO At Arabasi is runnig on 16" SAT's , which Firestone sells in the US for about $100 (these are non-directional). Despite everything I've read about their short tread life, I've done 20,000 miles in a year and a half and can't see any signs of wear. I use the tubed variety, but Firestone makes a tubless type too. For what it's worth... Michael Ramage 1971 IIa 88 ramagem@carleton.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 00:23:14 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Tires & Such
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 00:13:05 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> They seem to hold air pretty well without tubes. I run 37 psi in the 88 and
> 42 psi in the 109.
37 and 42!? I run 28-32 psi in bias ply SAT's with tubes on the
109. Why so high?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 00:23:46 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Steve's Sweetie
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 00:14:56 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes:
> Don't forget to tell her I've got new springs in the back. And mine is MUCH
> quieter than yours. And my boiled head is much cleaner. And my tool box is
> much bigger. And I'm MUCH MUCH younger. And better looking too. And...
and you probably have not added velcro strips above and below the
windows so you can tack some tacky curtains up for some privacy...
:-)
Dixon
PS. In a 109 the seat is set back an additional 2", so there is
more head room <sic>
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 00:23:13 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Tires and such
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 00:18:04 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Well 16 inch rims are the in thing and are generally considered to be more
> desirable than the 15 inch rims. I think of more concern should be the width
> the rim. It seems the older ones were narrower than the newer ones which
> limited the tyres you could mount.
It is my recollection that the 109 16" rims were wider than the 16"
rims that you could get with the 88. Thus if you desire to run
750-16's like I do, you need the 109 16" rims. The 88 16" rims
won't easily, or safely run them.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 02:47:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:37:30 UNDEFINED Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO > and you probably have not added velcro strips above and below the > windows so you can tack some tacky curtains up for some privacy... > :-) Curtains? CURTAINS! IS this a LANDROVER forum or what? A real LR owner uses clothespegs clipping bits of bale bags to the inside roof lip.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 06:43:34 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 12:30:29 BST Status: RO Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned deeeeep woodland? Are these things Land Rovers or not? Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 06:14:35 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 28 Apr 1994 11:40:34 +0100
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 11:39:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> > and you probably have not added velcro strips above and below the
> > windows so you can tack some tacky curtains up for some privacy...
> > :-)
>
> Curtains? CURTAINS! IS this a LANDROVER forum or what? A real LR owner uses
> clothespegs clipping bits of bale bags to the inside roof lip.
Bale bags? - cor, that's a bit fancy ain't it? I use the old curtains that I
have as wing-protectors for working in the engine ;-}
I see shades of Monty Python creeping in here!
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 08:29:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:02:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just in case any of you were not watching A & E on Tuesday night for the mystery movie you missed some great Discovery Adverts. They consisted of about 20 seconds of Camel trophy Discos bouncing leaping swimming dunking through all kinds of quag and clag and water, then cuts to a scenic country road with happy family driving along. Nice stuff Tailgates Dale had a great temporary one on his 88, he'd probably send it to you for less that $150! Tyres Nobody likes the Michelin XCL's eh? Nobody tried them? Waiting for those trivia answers! Later Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 08:15:12 1994
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 08:54:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: TAILGATES
To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=MACMGW/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com
Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
For that price,you should get all the fiddily bits such as the swivels that
hold it closed... and the chains to rattle as you drive down the road...
AND the dent in the center where someone dropped it open on the trailer
hitch!!
HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"
Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061
On 27 Apr 1994 /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=MACMGW/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com wrote:
>
> ive been offered a tailgate for my 88 for a price of 150.00 . i need the oppions
> from those of you on the net who knows how much one of these things go for. ive
> already got the top off and im using the softtop so i think its only logical to
> get a tailgate.the really positive thing about this tailgate is that somewhere
> down the line it had belonged to my truck so their the same colour. any response
> would be appreciated.
> thx in advance
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 09:18:44 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 28 Apr 94 13:59:07 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Tires & Such Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dixon writes: > 37 and 42!? I run 28-32 psi in bias ply SAT's with tubes on the > 109. Why so high? > > Rgds, > > Dixon Dixon, The Sears ATs have a relatively soft sidewall. I started out at 30 psi and found they were really bagged out. Handling was pretty mushy, the truck was very bouncy, and it didn't roll too well. I tried different pressures and I found these to work best. If I go higher the ride starts to get real hard. I feel that this is just due to the construction of the tires. This may prove to be a disadvantage on sharp rocky terrain, but so far the majority of my off-roading has been at the rallys. Not much to do here in NJ. They're pulling the plug on my terminal in a few hours. It may be a while before I am able to gain access again. New job, new building. I don't know what I'll be doing or for whom but it will be in Short Hills in our Global Information Systems organization. Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 09:26:55 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 07:15:19 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie Status: RO >Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned >deeeeep woodland? Are these things Land Rovers or not? Trouble with woodland and forest is you can still be "surprised", I always took the 109 to the top of a pinnacle, great view and lots of warning! -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 09:38:37 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 28 Apr 94 14:32:06 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Greg from TX Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg, I hope you're OK. I saw on the news that some tornados came through your part of the state. Lots of distruction. Let us know how you made out. Even Rovers have trouble withstanding a funnel. Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 09:57:47 1994
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:44:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jon Humphrey <jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: tyres & stuff
Status: RO
> Discussion
>>>> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again...
>>>> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16"
>>>> rims? Sizes, makes, etc. Also, are LR rims suitable for running
>>>> tubeless or are they always used with innertubes? My rims are
>>>> so shot they require tubes but I've considered getting new ones
>>>> and moving up to 16" so I thought I'd ask.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>I have the origional 16" wheels with rivets, I just pulled off some
second hand
>750 bias recaps with tubes. Each tire was a different diameter and two
>were square and two were triangular. I had to wear a helmet in the
>morning, to keep from bouncing off the roof of the cab.
>We mounted newer radials---"tubeless"--and they are absolutely wonderful.
>
>So far, so good---no leaks---and it rides and drives like a dream cloud.
>I couldn't believe the difference.
>Sorta like, before, it drove like a 63 international travel-all-----
>----but now it handles like a "LOTUS".
>
>I got a hell of a deal on the tires. This guy took these almost new
>firestone radial 205 85R 16's off his RV, cause he has more money than brains.
Itold him that I would give him $10.00 apiece for them. He said he had to
>get more than that.
>He thought about it for a minute, and said he had to get $70.00 for all "6".
>It took 3 milleseconds to count out the cash.
>
>Oh yes, just remember, you can't use regular tubes with radial tires.
>They must be radial tubes.
>I spoke with good ol'Bill, from Tom Dentice tire center "The working
>man's friend" when I had the radials mounted. We decided to try these
>without tubes. He cleaned up the beads on the wheels and the hole for
>the stem. No leaks at all. Nadda, not...none
>Soooooo--it seems that 16" Rover wheels can be tubeless.
Later
Jon
# # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\
"YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_
It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium
++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | |
= = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_||
jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/
,.________________.
/~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~}
/ // } } "67-109"
[]]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP
[]]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============|
____=========_____------| | |
| |/|@) (@| | | | |
| ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ |
| |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ |
|____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_||
|___________________|[ } |[ ]
\ / \ \ / \\ }
~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 10:21:31 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 11:12:43 EST Encoding: 728 Text To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Cc: lro@stratus.com, buckley_k_j@bt-web.bt.co.uk Subject: Re: Bio Content-Length: 708 Status: RO Kerry writes: > I'm seriously considering buying a 1948 80" Land Rover off a friend. Wow, a '48! That's neat stuff... Kerry, FYI there's a Land Rover list that you should know about, if you don't already. List members are located all over the world, including the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia (I think) a bunch of other places and at least one or two quite prolific members up north of here (Canada)...I believe you can reach the list owner at lro-request@stratus.com. Actually, I'm in the same boat you are...don't have a LR yet but have designs on either a new Discovery or a used RRover. Just saw a late '70s RR 2 door, stick for sale in the RoverLog... Enjoy, Lee llevitt@idcresearch.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 10:36:10 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Tires and such Date: 28 Apr 1994 15:25:53 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <T13gLc4w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>, dixon kenner <dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> wrote: >"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes: > >> Well 16 inch rims are the in thing and are generally considered to be more >> desirable than the 15 inch rims. I think of more concern should be the width >> the rim. It seems the older ones were narrower than the newer ones which >> limited the tyres you could mount. > > It is my recollection that the 109 16" rims were wider than the 16" > rims that you could get with the 88. Thus if you desire to run > 750-16's like I do, you need the 109 16" rims. The 88 16" rims > won't easily, or safely run them. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > Ha! I spit in the face of danger. Phhtt! 235-85x16 radials on my skinny 6" rims for the 107. Randy rsrose@puck.caltech.edu Ps: Steve - I haven't forgotten your E-mail
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 10:43:42 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Pricing of used 2.25 petrol engine? (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:35:03 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1277 Status: RO Mark V Grieshaber was bold enough to point out... > >Any opinions on what a fair price for a used (~80k miles) >petrol 2.25 engine might go for? Pertinent facts: > > - removed in running condition 11 years ago (in favor of a diesel) > - when running, it smoked on startup, but was otherwise ok > - includes both manifolds, solex carb > - includes starter > - includes fuel pump > - includes generator > - stored inside since removed (with sparkplugs in place) > - currently turns freely > >Ray, didn't you just pick up a frozen 2.25 engine recently? > My $185 deal 200 miles away was about the same except frozen. I am humble to report that my wife nixed the deal and I didn't get it. Not only don't I have the engine but I had given my word to the guy that I was buying it. It was a hard phone call to tell him "sorry". I still scheme about acquiring it and feel I have good odds that it will eventually happen. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 13:08:26 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 10:02:40 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <0HoHLc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 28, 94 8:02 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > Waiting for those trivia answers! I do recall that it was a SIII-like front grille, but am unsure of the marketing scam that went along with it..... rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 10:59:15 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 09:49:54 MDT From: mcarter@lanl.gov To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com> Subject: Advice on '63 88 IIa purchase. Status: RO Lurking Newbie Alert!!!!!!!! I was looking at used pickups (Toyota) at the dealer in Sante Fe and I noticed in the corner a 88 in the corner of the lot that's for sale. I gave it quick look and it appears to be in good shape. The inside window sills are rusting but that's all that's visibly bad. Of course it looks like it had an Earl Sheib job recently so I will look much closer if I get more interested. The thing that really concerns me (as someone who hasn't even sat in one of the beasts before) is that the gearshift swivels about it's vertical axis!!! Is this a useful feature to allow more sheep to fit in the cab or is something wrong with the tranny??? The used car slime-ball said they were asking $7K!!! (this is Sante Fe after all). If I could get it for A LOT LESS I'd concider it. The FAQ says I should expect to pay 2-3K which seems reasonable. I'm may try to do a 2 for 1 deal with those sleaze-bags! Isn't car buying a blast!! Thanks, mjc | Michael J. Carter Internet: mcarter@lanl.gov | * Space & Atmospheric Sciences Phone/Voicemail: (505)665-6529 * | Los Alamos National Laboratory Fax: (505)665-7395 |
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 11:42:11 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 12:10:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie To: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404281130.AA25027@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO HEY Folks! I'm gunna hafta' show this to her ya' know.... Now I will not get in "OVERDRIVE" with her....I won't even get out of "LOW RANGE"!!!!!!! She is going to be suspecious of ever scrap of cloth,shop rag,old newspaper,etc........"Just WHAT do you think you're going to do with THAT??????"......"But honey,....I can find my way out of the forest.....I'll just follow the OIL TRAIL"..... Oooops,...Sorry....I was just reaching tor the transfer lever.....<SMACK> "I'll dis-engage YOUR lock outs if you're not careful,buddy" <sigh> :-) or more correctly ;-( = me with a black eye..... steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu> PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Thu, 28 Apr 1994, Mike Rooth wrote: > Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned > deeeeep woodland? Are these things Land Rovers or not? > Mike >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 11:41:22 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" <john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM> To: "'SMTP:lro@transfer.stratus.com'" <lro@transfer.stratus.com> Subject: Re: Tires and such Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 09:30:00 PDT Encoding: 15 TEXT Status: RO Dixon writes: > It is my recollection that the 109 16" rims were wider than the 16" > rims that you could get with the 88. Thus if you desire to run > 750-16's like I do, you need the 109 16" rims. The 88 16" rims > won't easily, or safely run them. I also have 16" rims on my 109, which are offset 1 or 2 inches farther outward, versus earlier 16" rims (88 & 109). This provides a better turning radius when running 750's (I'm running radial Cooper Discover STT's). Most locals here prefer these offset 16's, especially on 88's (Pacific Northwest). John Rostykus
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 12:12:45 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 09:45:15 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie Status: RO In message <9404281130.AA25027@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes: > Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned > deeeeep woodland? Are these things Land Rovers or not? > Mike > Gee and I was thinking of sewing up a nice cheary set of curtains for my 109 once I get the new sides mounted to the hard top and the cabnets built into the sides to hold some of my camping gear (yes, I know, but my Lucas spell checker is acting up again).You guys may chuckle at curtains in a Land Rover, but I girl like a little provicy changing clothes in the back of the car. Bale bags??? my hay always came bailed with eather twine or wire. Handy stuff that. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 16:12:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Robin's General Servive column for March... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:23:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO GENERAL SERVICE by Robin Craig March 1994 I have spent the last week at home because of the flu. As a result I have been seeing a lot more TV than normal. In one day I counted seeing the Land Rover marque on four different continents in over a dozen different roles. With a world wide coverage such as this I feel confident that the purchase of the Rover Car group by BMW will not affect this coverage in the future. Now can we put this subject to rest now? Thank you. In November 1993 The Australian Government created a "Tomb of the Unknown Soldier" at their National War Memorial in Canberra. The remains of an Unknown Soldier were carried the final part of the journey to the memorial atop a gun carriage towed by an immaculate Series II military 109" Land Rover. For any of you like myself who might want to try and get a copy of the Haynes manual on the Land Rover, good luck! I was in Smithbooks recently and was trying to make use of some vouchers I had been given for my recent 29th Birthday. The clerk found the title and called the distributors in Toronto directly to order it and get a delivery date. She was told that the book is out of print now and that at present there are no plans to put it back into print. So if you can find one around pick it up now! For those of you who gave away a shop soiled one, tough luck! I am not a computer junkie by any stretch of the imagination. To me it is merely an aide to trying to survive these days. I would never be able to do this column for a start without it, you could never read my handwriting and this things spells so much better than I can. When I read about the Land Rover bulletin board and heard about it from people like Dale and Dixon I really questioned whether I could get anything out of it as it seemed to be populated by people who 1. had a real Land Rover (I don't) and 2. knew how to fix them (I can't as yet). Well let me tell you that having gotten onto the system and putzed my way around a bit I have had a lot of enjoyment from reading the general goings on the main board. But what I really enjoy now is the direct e-mail contact with other toy / model / military Land Rover minded people from around the globe. My personal e-mail is from the UK, US and New Zealand. Not bad eh? So if you have access to a modem and a PC talk to Dixon and get yourself wired. It's worth the effort. Who said Land Rovers and computers were not compatible. Finally this month an early entrant for the prestigious Lug Nut award for '94. Recently the model making group that I and another OVLR member belong too held a game show style quiz. The group was split into various teams. The questions had been researched by the question master so that everyone's personal specialty subject would be catered for. Unfortunately I was not able to attend but I felt sure that my colleague would be able to answer any question with ease. Sure enough the moment came when the question was put to him "what was the name given to the hybrid vehicle produced by putting together a Land Rover and a Scorpion armoured vehicle chassis?" Needless to say my colleague's mind went blank and all he wanted was the floor to open up and swallow him! Who was this person you ask? I can't tell a lie it was you very own club treasurer Andy Graham. You see Andy, I told you I wouldn't tell anyone! If you didn't know the answer yourself it was the Centaur. That is it for this month, see ya ......... Robin 613 738 7880 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 16:12:38 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: and one from April's OVLR newsletter From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 14:25:43 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO GENERAL SERVICE by Robin Craig April 1994 G'day folks spring is finally with us, maybe we'll see some Land Rovers on the road. Dale Desprey went to the British Car Clubs darts match in town a few weeks ago. He reports that not one British vehicle was in the parking lot. Shows how much faith you all have in your machines eh? The April edition of Petersens Off Road and Four wheel drive has three articles on Land Rover products. A nice little article on the US Team Camel Trophy selection process, accompanied by some nice colour pictures. In addition there is material on the new Range Rover and the new Discovery. I was talking to Southam tires in the UK the other day and was enlightened as to how the tires for the North American spec 90 were arrived at. Apparently Southam supply a lot of tires to major utility companies in the UK. They had been asking for something to reduce lessen the vehicles footprint as they were trying to "tread lightly" off road. Changing the tyres, they felt should go along way to doing that. The tires offered were a BF Goodrich product which worked well and reduced damage. Somehow Land Rover were made aware of this and they are now standard fitment for the NA 90. As a rule Land Rover Canada launch their new models along with their US counterparts at a combined event in the US. Not so this year with the launch of the Discovery. Apparently it will be held sometime soon in the spring . More news later. If you were looking for a way to get rid of some extra cash have I got an idea for you! Transport of Delight in the Uk have just released a 1/48th scale lightweight Land Rover in cast resin. The vehicle is towing a ground power unit as is meant to be made to depict a vehicle used by the Royal Air Force aerobatic team the Red Arrows. The unmade model can be yours for a mere 47 UK pounds. If you are not up to making it yourself they will, for a fee make it for you and paint it as well, then it comes out to something in the 85 pound range! Don't forget you will have to add shipping and handling on top of that. Transport of Delight are at PO BOX 130, East Grinstead, West Sussex, RH19 3FS, England. Did you know that Lorne Brown, the owner of the Canadian tire store at the corner of Blair and Ogilvy roads in Gloucester is a Range Rover owner? Apparently it is a Long wheel base one. All I have ever seen is a green streak as he drives by! Never long enough for a full examination. Ed at Hat Salvage (1-403-529-0740) has a number of what he thinks are 109's in the yard. he reports that he has "rear ends and front ends", presumably front and rear axles available. Also in stock are a number of transmissions and engines, obviously he cant vouch for their condition. There are also a couple of "pretty straight and clean frames" available as well. If you call him tell him that you saw it in the club newsletter. Now for a couple of requests. Does anyone have my book on the history of vehicle recovery in the British Army? If so would you give me a shout and I'll come over and collect it. Second up, do any of you own any broken series three grilles that you want to get rid off?. I will gladly come and remove them or pay you to mail them in. I have a need for a few of them as long as the badge portion is still intact. Don't ask what for, its complicated! There have been a number of people who, over time asked me if I can source parts for the military trailers. Most have been after the towing eye and shaft and ancillary brake pieces. I know one of those people was Bob Wood, would the rest of you give me a call and let me know what it is that you wanted. That's all for this month......... Robin Craig 613 738 7880 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 28 16:13:37 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 17:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: Advice on '63 88 IIa purchase. To: mcarter@lanl.gov Cc: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com> In-Reply-To: <9404281549.AA29450@sst10c> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 28 Apr 1994 mcarter@lanl.gov wrote: > > Lurking Newbie Alert!!!!!!!! > > the gearshift swivels about it's > vertical axis!!! Is this a useful feature to allow more sheep to fit > in the cab or is something wrong with the tranny??? > > The used car slime-ball said they were asking $7K!!! (this is Sante Fe > for $7K they should include the sheep...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 01:33:07 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:29:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just got my reproduction posters today. came in reasonably sturdy cardboard tube. It looks good from a far, but up close the wholething looks like aphoto of the original. For example the Land Rover Logo does not look as black as it should andinfact has a very slight blue tinge to the edge. I guess though that that is the price that we have to pay for reproductions of such material, considering the age of the original material. The colour portion / picture by Sir Terrence Cuneo on one of them looks distinctly out of focus / blurry form up close. But all in all I am glad to have them and will probably get a number more over time. By the way, my index to LRO seems to work quite well. Have used it a couple of different ways anumber of times so far. Interestingly on the inside front cover is a note that although there are limited numbers of issues of LRO available as back issues, you can reprints of pages from "sold out" issues at a pound a page. So if you were looking for copies then there is still a way to find them. The April issue of Wheels of Canada or Canadian wheels or something like that has an article on the Defender 90 and a small news box on the Discovery which they say will be launched in June, now slated for May 18 last I heard! By the way, has anybody who has seen any of the demo vehicles at motor shows in the US recorded their VIN details? Just curious, if you have could you pass the info along to me. If you are going to a show in the future can you please bear it in mind and let me have it? Thanks people. Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 01:12:59 1994
From: landrover@aol.com
Sender: "landrover" <landrover@aol.com>
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 00:08:55 EDT
Subject: Tyres, re-tiring and tired!
Status: RO
brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com writes:
> I think this was discussed long ago but I'll bring it up again...
> Any recommendations for tires for either the 15" or the 16"
> rims? Sizes, makes, etc.
And the replies come fast and furious....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A couple of questions and answers back. How original do you wish
to remain? The 88's came with 15" tyres. Many people have
obtained 109 16" rims and tossed the 15"s 15" rims from the IIA
I don't know what's best but I'll share with you what I'm using. On the 88 I
have Sears 235/75R15 ATs (tubeless). They ride pretty well, are good in the
On the 109 I have the same tire in 7.50 R15. It has the same pros & cons as
above but rides MUCH MUCH better than the bias tires that were on it. They
Oh, another benefit of 15" tires aside from lower cost and better
availability
is that they don't give you the hernia that 16" wheels do when you try to
lift them.
Well 16 inch rims are the in thing and are generally considered to be more
desirable than the 15 inch rims. I think of more concern should be the width
of
the rim. It seems the older ones were narrower than the newer ones which
A reason to keep tubes is that in boggy or sandy situations your tyres will
work
better if the pressure is low. Under those circumstances, you might lose
your
tubless seal. Besides used tube material comes in handy for mounting TR3 and
I have a set of 9" wide 16" rims for the 109 that Dick Cepek (back when it
was
Five years ago the selection of 16" tires was pretty bad but in the last year
or two the availability of 16s has really increased. Me, I am kind of partial
I have the origional 16" wheels with rivets, I just pulled off some second
hand
750 bias recaps with tubes. Each tire was a different diameter and two
With regard to the tube/tubeless debate, my new 16 rims leaked through the
rivets, so I had to run with tubes. True, tubeless tires can be readily
For what it's worth, the tire spec for my (nearing completion, more details
next week) 88 series IIa are Goodyear Wrangler MT radial tires - 215/85 x
16".
At Arabasi is runnig on 16" SAT's , which Firestone sells in the US for
about $100 (these are non-directional). Despite everything I've
It is my recollection that the 109 16" rims were wider than the 16"
rims that you could get with the 88. Thus if you desire to run
750-16's like I do, you need the 109 16" rims. The 88 16" rims
won't easily, or safely run them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
etc, etc,etc.... So I'll add my two cents worth too...
My opinion is what type of rubber you use depends on how you want to use the
truck. "All-season" type radials are nice and quiet, handle fine on the road
but aren't the best thing to have in the rough. Personally, I would want
something that would perform well for the type of on and off road conditions
that I encounter. So I'm running Kelly-Springfield Safari AT 750-16 bias
tyres with tubes on my Ser III 88. They're good in the snow, mud, over rocks,
trees and the assorted rice-rockets you encounter. ;-} True, they are
noisy, but then so is the engine and transmission. And they ride a bit rough
(my 'roids can attest to that!) 15 or 16" rims?? I think that you can get a
taller, narrower tyre for a 16" rim but then you have the question of how
well will your speedometer work. (LOL)
Mike
Loiodice
E-MAIL
landrover@aol.com
Lights by LUCAS .... Off, Dim and Flicker
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 02:47:18 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:43:28 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned >Bale bags??? my hay always came bailed with eather twine or wire. Handy stuff >that. But makes lousy curtains?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 06:18:57 1994
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 06:27:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tyres, re-tiring and tired!
To: landrover@aol.com
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9404290008.tn116192@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
OK, a little clarifcation on the tube vs. tubeless story.... all rims
manuractured after jan. 1st 1968 for the USA have to be tubeless....for
passenger cars!!!! so it is possible that you will have tubeless rims on a
late 2A or series 3...... none of these came with 16 inch wheels for the
north american market,I'm told,and if they did,16's are still recognised
as "truck" tires and wouldn't fall under this section of the law...whew....
What is the difference between tube and tubeless rims,you say???? Well,
glad you asked!!!!!!
The tubeless rims are called "J" rims or saftey rims...they have a groove
or depression at the bead seating surface....I wish i could draw
this....but picture the area of the rim were the inner most diameter of
the tire rests on the rim and there is a "hump" just inboard of that to
keep the tire bead from sliding inward to the center...got it?
The hump and/or groove,is what will cause the tire bead to "pop" or snap
up on the rim when mounting new tires...if you ever watched someone mount
"xzx's" on VW rims you would understand the concept "POW" when that puppy
seats!!! The idea is that the tire will stay aganst the rim and not be
forced off the wheel,thus losing air ,going flat,causing the vehicle to
spin wildly out of control,hitting a school bus and oil storage
tanks,bursting
into flames,causing the derailment that strikes the dam,bursting it with
the insueing flood washing out the nuclear power plant,which
explodes,singeing the toes of the local youth choir....(and I don't even
OWN a TV !)
Sooooooooooo..... you SHOULD use tubes in the LR tires to prevent this
from happening......I,however,am running goodyear wrangler AT's 7.50-16's
on 16 inch 109 rims(galvanised!) and have yet to notice a problem...
the "j" rims tend to keeps the tire on under hard cornering...(every
corner in a 109sw is a hard corner,these vehicles NEED power steering!)
It is possible to dislodge the rim offroad when puting great amounts of
side thrust on tire,and if one is transversing a slope, the loss of air on
one of the down hill tires could lead to ,well you get the picture, I guess...
Do as you wish...but if the ultimate nasty strikes,don't say I didn't tell
ya'!
seeyabye
steve...
HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP"
Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu>
PO BOX 61
Erieville,NY 13061
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 06:28:48 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Reflections To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 12:19:43 BST Status: RO When I first bought the Land Rover,and for about a week afterwards the thing,frankly,terrified me,and anyone foolish enough to accept a ride.My wife was particularly vociferous on the subject.However, one day on the local bypass,approaching a traffic island,and being tailgated by some clown in a Ford Sierra,for some reason I remembered my long gone MG J2.I also remembered how this little beast could perform four wheel drifts round things like traffic islands.I was pretty certain the Land Rover *couldnt* perform this trick (dont try,you'll turn it over),but I flicked it round the island in much the same manner, taking the same line I would have used with the MG.The Sierra driver was a little discomfited.A trip out as passenger in a collleagues 1920 something Vauxhall 20/25 confirmed my view that the Land Rover owes more than a little to between the wars technology.My mate apologised for the ride quality,but I had not noticed it as being any different to what I was used to.It confirmed a long held view that for sheer truth of handling;a quality not much mentioned in today's motoring press;leaf springs and beam axles either end takes some beating.Perhaps the coil sprung machines are as good,but I cant comment 'cos I've never driven one. As an aside,I have reason to beleive that traffic islands are not a world wide thing.For those of you unfamiliar with them:- Draw a cross-roads,using two lines to represent the roads,one line for either side of the road. With a compass,draw two concentric circles,with their centres the middle of the cross roads.The circles should be big enough to intersect all four roads.Now rub out all the straight lines inside the two circles,and the outer circle where it crosses the roads.Instant traffic island,or roundabout.These thing can be just a circle of yellow paint at a cross road,in which case everybody totally ignores them,or can be quite magnificently huge,with grass,flower beds and even trees planted on them. They are also the place where your vehicle invariably gurgles and dies, causing a)acute embarassment on your part,and b)consternation for miles in all directions as the island rapidly becomes clogged.They have also given rise to the quaint English direction "go straight across the island".To those of you abroad who contemplate a visit to this fair land,for heavens sake *dont take it literally*.The local authorities have this old fashioned view that grass should'nt have tyre marks all over it.And anyway,you'll get stuck in the rose beds. To the 88" driver these islands,if smallenough,can be treated as a chicane, welly being applied vigourously at the apex of the circle,*bags* of helm, a la Nuvolari (look it up),and then enjoy the view in your mirror as Granny tries to sort out her dilemma,having followed you faithfully in her funny little motor.It is *most* entertaining if the follower happens to be a bright young thing in a baby Suzuki 4WD.109" drivers usually approach with a litle more dignity.Dixon please note. Large roundabouts can be used to demonstrate the "stickability" of the Land Rover,going round in as tight a line as you can,increasing speed until you are hanging on by your outer rear wheel.The speed of this manoevre is usually limited by the factor of adhesion of the dog,who comes unstuck from his perch on the inside,and is propelled rapidly across the tub,to end up pinned against the other side,immovable.Be prepared for some *very* dirty looks from man's (erstwhile) best friend.Mine are now battle hardened,and can pull 6 G's with no apparent ill effects.For effects on following vehicles,see above,only more so. These manoevres are an excellent way of disposing of the mother in law,should seat belts not be used,and the passenger door not closed properly,but *do* beware of the laws governing fly tipping of rubbish.We must,as responsible 4X4 owners,keep the environment tidy. Finally,and this applies mainly,I should think,on narrow English roads,have you noticed how roads you previously though were overcrowded,stretch away perfectly clear of traffic in front of you,since you bought the old 11A? Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 07:23:58 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Reflections
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 29 Apr 94 12:19:43 PDT."
<9404291119.AA06248@hpc.lut.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 05:15:13 PDT
Status: RO
In message <9404291119.AA06248@hpc.lut.ac.uk> you write:
> As an aside,I have reason to beleive that traffic islands are not a world
> wide thing.For those of you unfamiliar with them:- Draw a cross-roads,using
> two lines to represent the roads,one line for either side of the road.
> With a compass,draw two concentric circles,with their centres the middle
> of the cross roads.The circles should be big enough to intersect all
> four roads.Now rub out all the straight lines inside the two circles,and
> the outer circle where it crosses the roads.Instant traffic island,or
> roundabout.These thing can be just a circle of yellow paint at a cross
> road,in which case everybody totally ignores them,or can be quite
> magnificently huge,with grass,flower beds and even trees planted on them.
> They are also the place where your vehicle invariably gurgles and dies,
> causing a)acute embarassment on your part,and b)consternation for miles
> in all directions as the island rapidly becomes clogged.They have also
> given rise to the quaint English direction "go straight across the
> island".To those of you abroad who contemplate a visit to this fair
> land,for heavens sake *dont take it literally*.The local authorities
> have this old fashioned view that grass should'nt have tyre marks all over
> it.And anyway,you'll get stuck in the rose beds.
[much of a good decription deleted, but kept in a savefile]
Anyway...Traffic cicles have also found their way over to this side
of the Atlantic. Growing up in Southern New York, I've been arounf a few of
these. As a note, most of the ones that I've noticed in New Jersey have been
replaced with stop lights in the last few years.
Mike, your descriptions of traffice circles reminded me of a story.
Abut 20 or 30 years ago West Point had as little mishap. There were teaching
the cadets how to fire artillery. West Point aims all of its rifle and
artillery fire at Cranberry Mountian (which is a misnomer because the top of
this "mountain" is 1200 feet and is only about 300 feet and about 1 km from the
firinlg line.) Anyway because the target is so close and small, they uses
the lest amount of powder when firing.
One fateful day the put in way too much powder and fired. The shell
was abserved to still be gaining altitude as it cleared the ridge. Now beyond
the mountian is the town of Fort Montgomery, Bear Mountain State park (which
can have hundreds people at it on a good day) and the Hudson River. The Army
was quite worried and wondered where its shell landed (and how many people it
killed). As luck would have it, the shell impacted and exploded 6.8 km away
from the gun that fired it. And neatly bullseyed the Bear Mountain Traffic
circle. My mother lived in the area at the time and claims that public was
impressed with the accuracy of the cadets. The only casualty was West Point's
pride.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 07:02:09 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Reflections Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:57:56 UNDEFINED Status: RO >When I first bought the Land Rover,and for about a week afterwards >the thing,frankly,terrified me,and anyone foolish enough to accept >a ride.My wife was particularly vociferous on the subject.However, >one day on the local bypass,approaching a traffic island,and being >tailgated by some clown in a Ford Sierra,for some reason I remembered >my long gone MG J2.I also remembered how this little beast could >perform four wheel drifts round things like traffic islands.I was pretty >certain the Land Rover *couldnt* perform this trick (dont try,you'll >turn it over),but I flicked it round the island in much the same manner, >taking the same line I would have used with the MG.The Sierra driver was >a little discomfited.A trip out as passenger in a collleagues 1920 something >Vauxhall 20/25 confirmed my view that the Land Rover owes more than a little >to between the wars technology.My mate apologised for the ride quality,but >I had not noticed it as being any different to what I was used to.It >confirmed a long held view that for sheer truth of handling;a quality not >much mentioned in today's motoring press;leaf springs and beam axles either >end takes some beating.Perhaps the coil sprung machines are as good,but I >cant comment 'cos I've never driven one. They do. I have all but written off a Golf GiT who tried to follow me thru a wet roundabout - the permanent 4wd is useful occasionally..... >Finally,and this applies mainly,I should think,on narrow English roads,have >you noticed how roads you previously though were overcrowded,stretch away >perfectly clear of traffic in front of you,since you bought the old 11A? Hmmm I get the same effect in my 90 2.5 diesel. I thought everyone was staying home.......
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 09:16:09 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Evaluating the Opposition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 15:04:09 BST Status: RO I shall be visiting the Leicestershire County Show this weekend. (For those transatlantic persons who have trouble with English place names its pronounced Lestershuh.Just thought you'd like to know).Its an agricultural show,and is being held on the farm where my horse is boarded,the farmer being the President of the Organising Committee,and he informs me that included in the trade stands are every make of 4X4 currently on sale in this country.Including the best,naturally.If there is any interest,I will post some impressions of the opposition next week.Not much for Solihull to worry about,I shouldt imagine. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 10:21:14 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 11:12:04 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Ben Smith wrote (lots deleted): > As luck would have it, the shell impacted and exploded 6.8 km away from the gun that fired it. And neatly bullseyed the Bear Mountain Traffic circle. My mother lived in the area at the time and claims that public was impressed with the accuracy of the cadets. The only casualty was West Point's pride. ....but let's not give our readers (esp those on foreign soils) the wrong impression. I live just about 2 miles, as the shell flys, from West Point (just across the river in Garrsion, NY) and even closer to their bosom buddies, Camp Smith (a national guard, or "weekend warrior" training ground). Aside from their uncanny ability to start forest fires (the Camp Smith crowd has *already* managed to start a big one in this, the "rainy" season, that has burned now for six days-the smoke of which I breath in both wake and sleep mode-and last summer they had one going from May until September.....GGGGGGGERRRRRRRRR.......) these bastards have managed to send shells our way. One artillery shell about the size of my forearm was found just 150yds from my neighbors house. A little disconcerting......just a little....... rd/nigel ps no offense to our friend roy in da rockies, but as a civilian living beside the firing range who has had to put up with their antics (for over 30 years now) i cannot help but complain.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 10:34:11 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 08:19:42 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie Status: RO >>> Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned >>Bale bags??? my hay always came bailed with eather twine or wire. Handy stuff>>that. >But makes lousy curtains? You could always knit the bailing wire into chainmail curtains.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 10:43:37 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:34:19 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Mike Rooth on RoverWeb Status: RO I have collected the last three pieces that Mike Rooth has written on cars and such and added them to the RoverWeb. I thought they were worth archiving. I did take the liberty to break the text into paragraphs - if anybdoy objects please let me know. Best - Greg http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 PS - Dixon - where are those pics?????
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 12:23:27 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 13:13:57 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Status: RO >By the way, has anybody who has seen any of the demo vehicles at motor >shows in the US recorded their VIN details? Just curious, if you have >could you pass the info along to me. If you are going to a show in the >future can you please bear it in mind and let me have it? no, but last week i saw a disco on the street in boston... had "land rover" in largish letters across the front... didn't notice the discovery logo... so much for product differentiation. -jory
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 17:47:46 1994
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 18:29:59 EDT
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Camel Trophy Update
Status: RO
Okay sportsfans...here's the latest from South America:
23rd April (Day 8)- After driving much of the night though glutinous mud
near the Paraguay-Argentina border, it was decision time on Saturday
morning, as dense fog precluded aerial recce of the Rio Teuco crossing.
Iain Chapman took a chance and diverted the convoy once again, over another
150 km of slime. However, it was a relatively good day (despite potholes
the size of bathtubs) with the convoy covering a total of 540 km. Though
the Dutch team came close to rolling their vehicle once again, it was Land
Rover's on-site workshop vehicle that eventually turned turtle. Whilst it
was on its side, LR's engineers Phil Jones and Steve Curwen took the
opportunity to tighten a loose exhaust pipe.
24th April (Day 9)- The mud of the frontier has become the dust of the
Chaco, as cacti became the predominate vegetation and the participants
caught the first sight of the distant Andes. One of the support vehicles
was saved from a 50' fall into the Rio Pasaje by a small bush. Switzerland
reamins in first place in the special tasks competition.
25th April (Day 10) Cactus Valley, Argentina- A desolate, uninhabitated
region 3,500 meters up in the sierras of the Andes. The Japanese had a
close call: with a broken radiator, they were being towed with a solid
A-frame behind one of the workshop vehicles; the driver lost control and
flipped the vehicle onto its side. The workshop vehicle was draggeds up
onto two wheels before its weight pulled both vehicles upright. Later,
with an ill-defined track, teams had to fan out to find a driveable route
through this arid region, a task that became increasingly difficult after
dark. An animal track though a deep gorge was eventually found, and with
a full moon, the convoy cleared the foothills at 2AM, arriving in Payogasta
at 04:30.
26th April (Day 11) Payogasta- Two days were spent erecting a prefabricated
research facility for the University of Salta. Working around the clock in
6 hour shifts for 30 hours, the field station was completed ahead of
schedule in this harsh valley; temperatures roasted the participants by
day, with freezing temperatures at night. The station is entirely
self-contained, with electricity produced by solar panels. Land Rover
donated on of the 110's to assist in future research projects.
28th April (Day 13) Tolar Grande, Argentina- The road into the heart of the
Andes became a driver's delight with tight sandy switchbacks snaking up the
face of seemingly endless slopes. At the summit some five kilometers above
sealevel, participants encountered snowfields - and a spirited snowball
battle ensued. At 4,895 meters, they were higher than the summit of Mont
Blanc, the higheat peak in Europe, as in less than a week, the convoy has
passed from the steaming jungles to the frigid heights at over 16,000'.
However, it is not a place for the faint of heart, as the column drove into
the night, with wheels inches from 500 meter drops. The Canary Islands
team had a close call when the lugnuts loosened on one whell and almost
pitched then into the chasm. On Friday, the team is scheduled to leave
Argentina and enter Chile over the Socompa Pass and begin a gradual descent
into the Atacama Desert. There they will have two days of desert
navigation tasks, followed by a final and decisive series of tasks at Hornitos.
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 30 04:17:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 19:25:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well it is Friday night, on past experience this will take awhile to be seen as something happens at our end (doesnt it Dixon) on the weekends. Any way here goes: Petersens 4 wheel and Off road may edition have some interesting guff on the product line as it were. On page 22Mr bernd Pischetsreider, BMW chairman states that BMW will not rebadge LR products but will replace 3.9 litre engine with a BMW v8. Centre spread is given over to an advert from BF GOODRICH for their tires that are fitted to the 90. the logo says, and I quote, this is not a typo but clever advertising, "We make detires under Defenders". Very smart eh?! Following that on page 86 is a piece on the Discos that went to belize recently. the writer Ed Fortson couldn't stop salivating over the vehicle. Wonder if these vehicles less decals / stickers will be the ones at the Disco launch here in Canada in May? Well, two answers so far to the trivia questions, no reply from Mr Grice yet, have i got you digging people or what? There is alot of chat about rims etc. I will be speaking to my guru in the next little while to put my two penny worth in from the military side! love Mr Rooth's bits and pieces on Round a bouts as they are really called, come on Mike give it the proper name. We have an arse backwards one here in town, those coming onto it have the priority Mike! That one still catches me out. I do remember driving around a round a bout at about 75 mph on the A259 outside Chichester and watching the ass in the Cortina who was trying to chase me losing it badly. I was in an Audi Quattro at the time! well must go, quality time with the little ones you know! Regards Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 30 04:18:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 19:43:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Oops Forgot to add this little piece, There is a new book coming out in the fall, a joint lash up by Messrs taylor and Morrison from LRO> the title will be Modern Military land Rovers. covering s3 and 90 110, beleive that lightweights and 101's are included but will clarify later. Basically it covers an ex factory mil spec vehcile an how it should look and then a wide variety of unit modifications that blow that myth all to rat s**t. More guff when I get it kiddies Rgeards oops Regards Rbin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 19:07:02 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 17:55:29 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Weekend Arty Status: RO I appreciate the comment and no offense taken. Out here in Montana we know how to run arty and armour firing ranges. The Guard facility is called Limestone Hills. That is an appropriate name. The area is about 30 square miles of limestone that neither sheep, cows or anything else want's to live on. The range firing area is a low ridge that fronts a higher ridge with a 1500 foot deep by mile and half depression. They fire across this into the ridge. Having witnessed them firing everything from mortars to M1A1 120mm and tows they have never had a stray round. But that could be because even if they somehow missed the ridge, everything on the other side for about ten miles is part of the range and out off range of their weapons. But we kinda do things different out here in the West. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - No Sir, That wasn't a hung round in the tube.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 20:50:54 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 21:42:34 -0400 From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU> Subject: Status on Mailing List To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Please check to see if I've been dropped from the mailing list. I've not received any LRO notes since returning from vacation Thanks, Andrew Steele
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 21:32:00 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 22:24:25 -0400 From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU> Subject: Land Rover Experience To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I've just returned from two weeks vacation in England. Most of the time was spent on the canal system; however, of interest was two days with the Land Rover Experience. Day One - Tuesday April 19th. I arrived at Solihul via the Grand Union Canal. There was a three minute walk from the canal to Land Rover's gate. (But not the proper one) The guards were very polite and called for a ride for me. The Land Rover Experience Staff came over and fetched me, driving me through the plant to their building. The day started with me, another student and our instructor. We began in a Diesel 5sp Range Rover. First was a couple trips around the factory test track; focus was on shifting between ranges, high to low and then low to high, while moving. Then it was on to the jungle tract. Driving slowly, the jungle easily takes 30 to 45 minutes with it's doublebacks and multiple tracts. A lot of water, a few locations deep enough to invoke the bow wave techinque. Lunch was in the factory cafeteria. Then return to the jungle and the elevated portions. We were tought proper techniques for hill climbing, descending (much steeper than I ever would have considered possible!!!), side slopes (again much more than what felt comfortable). Also we got to travel their concrete hill ramp, the concrete steps, rail-road ties road, and a road bed of wood. The instructor was very polite and helpfull. At one point I said taking this course must be the worst thing I've ever done for my own Rover - much to his concern - and I had to explain that we were using the vehicles in a manor I , or areas, I would never had considered driving before. After this, he spent a considerable time explaining the engineering considerations built into the vehicles to the effect that the obstacles we were traveling on/over are not unusual or unexpected for the vehicle it's self. Wow. Anyway, with only two of us, rather than the normal three, we had extra time in which we were permitted to pick additional vehicles to drive. By the end of the day, we had repeated most portions of the Jugle and Hills in the Diesel 5sp Range Rover, A Diesel 5sp Discovery, and near the end of the day, a Gasoline Range Rover Vogue (automatic) w/ the traction control braking system. During the course of the day, we were driven through the plant several different times. Although we did not get a tour of any production areas, we did get to see several of the car parks. At one point, a Land Rover in military specification, parked with other vehicles awaiting delivery, was identified as part of a group for delivery to the US Rangers in Georgia. (I throw this in because of discussion/speculation on the board awhlie back) Unfortunately, I don't yet have the technical ability or experience to further explain just what it was, or how it was equipped. Also several other vehicles of interest were pointed out, including a tandem axle defender w/ plow (used @ the plant), a Range Rover with a pickup bed (several years old), and unseen in the US several special project vehicles, the neatest being a Defender flatbed w/ cherry picker bucket on the bed. Anyway, a truly wonderful day with very helpful and courteous people. The only thing missing was some rain to slick up the clay. (However we did get to drive some slopes not normally used because it was dry). To top everything off, they went way out of their way to give me a ride on into Birmingham at the end of the day to catch up with my family on the canal boat. Then the next morning, they came back into Birmingham to pick me up and give me a ride to Eastnor Castle (aprox 1:45); but I shall save that day for a seperate note if anyone is still interested. Andrew Dayton, Ohio.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 21:44:54 1994
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 22:38:07 -0400
From: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion
To: lro@stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: RO
I've thought about a conversion of my Range Rover's engine to diesel. Now
after having driven the Land Rover 300Tdi engine, I feel even stronger about
this.
Looking in the May Land Rover Internation magazine (the first isue I've ever
seen of it by the way) there are several ads for diesel conversions.
Included are:
page 49 SMC : using Land Rover, Isuzu and Nissan diesels
Also advertising for Do it Yourself kits and conversion range for
Discovery, RR and LR all diesel& Petrol Models for 3&4 speed automatics + 4 &
5 speed manuals.
page 86 Milner Conversions (similar ad and applications, but also includes
performance kits)
page 89 Abbey Hill Truck Center - advertising for the Iveco 2.5 litre
direct injection diesel engine
page 116-117 four more: Warwick Banks Handlings
Samurai Motor Components Limited
W.E. Phillips Engineering
Turbo Rover (Reading)
My questions are 1) Has anyone converted from gas to diesel?
2) Did you use a company w
Gotta go!!
Thanks,
Andrew
Dayton, Ohio
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 29 23:05:36 1994
Date: 30 Apr 1994 15:56:01 +1200
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion
To: lro@stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
Andrew of Dayton, Ohio writes:
>I've thought about a conversion of my Range Rover's engine to diesel. Now
>after having driven the Land Rover 300Tdi engine, I feel even stronger about
>this.
Snip
>My questions are 1) Has anyone converted from gas to diesel?
Snip
No but I've seen 6 or 7. Here in NZ, most of the old LRs get Nissan LD28s
because they're really cheap (NZ$1200, US$600) imported used from Japan.
One Rangey conversion used a Izuzu Turbo (4 cyl?) but I drove one that was
really slick with a Toyota direct injection 4 cyl and the Toy 5 speed
transmission and transfer case. I don't know about the new ones, but my
old 4 speed is pretty rough.
Just my NZ$0.02,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 30 12:44:21 1994 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 12:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis <denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU> Subject: Re: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion To: Andrew Steele <ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9404300238.AA26072@dayton.wright.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OK...Here's my 2 cents worth.....(current exchange rate,approx. .0132p) If you are going to convert a Range Rover,get the biggest,baddest wompin' Diesel that ya' can lay your hands on....The 3.9 Isusu engine will fit nicely and I understand that it is a standard fitment in Australia in Land rovers. The biggest problem is that these engines are governed to 3000 rpm amd this will limit your top speed with stock gearing.... the SD 33 Nissan is a 6 cyl and is too long methinks..it has been used in the international scout 2 in the late 70's and early 80's...in the same engine family is the SD 22 and the SD25 . I put a SD 22 in to a 63 88 and it was ok power wise and remarkably quiet,how ever even with the 4000 rpm limit the top speed is approx.62 mph w/o overdrive....mileage went from 14-16 to 22-23...As a rule you will get 40-50% better fule mileage with the diesel vs. gas...if you figure it out,that still is not very good economy in a vehicle as big as a range rover...the price of fuel is such that you may not save enough to make the conversion worth it....fuel mileage on the larger units is nearly the same as the "little guys" and you will have enough power to get out of your own way.... I have done the gas to diesel route twice,once with a rover diesel in a 109 (as Nancy Reagan said...Just say NO!...)and the nissan in the 88. the rover to rover was a "bolt in" where the nissan required that I fabricate an adapter plate....................................I was passed on the M6 by a 110 Tdi when the little Vaxhall nova had said "enough!" (80-85 mph) I counted no less than 13 heads in the car,and assuming they were all attached to bodies,that little 2.5 engine was hauling along nicely.thank you! This vehicle had a full roof rack and a bull bar to "add" to the aerodynamics! so it is my guess that even with it's small displacement, the Tdi could move a rangey very well.....and this would keep the vehicle all Rover....Unless you can do most of the work yourself, I think that you would find the all up cost was far in excess of any possible fuel savings... (But I sure like that "business like" sound"!!) good luck w/this and if you finish this conversion let us know how it comes out! rgds steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis <denis@oswego.oswego.edu> PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 01:14:07 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 30 Apr 1994 20:40:06 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well blow me down with a feather, it's now saturday night and my message from yesterday has bounced back already, amazing speed for the weekend, congrats to Dixon. Some stuff i missed out yesterday There is also a real neat advert for Discovery in the issue aswell. The British magazine Model Collector has the first in a number of articles on Corgi Land Rovers for those of you who might be intereested. Thanks to Mr Grice for the Camel updates, very interesting, thak you for taking the time to put this into the system. The gent who describes the LR Experience, nice piece, novel arrival! yes please give us more of your visit. TTFN Robin Craig , Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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