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Infobahn AtlasFrom car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 07:49:41 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 13:47:02 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >> > I'll be damned if I'll go round with a silly round badge stuck on >> > my rad. >> Who can make BMW badges with big red stripes through them? I am getting one next time I pass a BMW dealer. Goes on upside down..... Be interesting (depressing?) to see what happens to the keep-it-the-same policy of Landrovers. Who wants to bet on new models every few years, monocoque construction in pressed tin, spares discontinued after 10 years etc, etc? Still, be nice to be able to get an electric tinted sunroof and velour seats for my 90 van.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 22:27:56 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover bibles?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 18:24:30 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Terry Gilbert <tgilbert@husc.harvard.edu> writes:
> This time around I'd like some recommendations on what reference
> books/manuals to get on the Land Rover. I've been eyeing Lindsay Porter's
> "Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration" as a good first choice.
This is an excellent book. Other books you should have would be
the Factory Manual, possible the Haynes manual for your chosen pet.
However, since you are berift of something to shower $$$ and
attention upon, any books of this sort should wait until you
actually have one. Beyond that, unless you are interested in
histories or general guides, the Porter book should do as a good
start to your reading.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 22:27:54 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Ducelier (sp?) vs. Lucas
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 18:32:03 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes:
> I noticed that there are two LR distributors - what is the difference
> between the two?
I have only ever seen the Lucas distributor on a Land Rover, and
the Factory Manual that I have only points to minor variations of
little consequence between that on the 2.25l and 6 cylinder
engines.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 22:28:01 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: export to Canada (was Glad to be aboard)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 18:37:36 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Terry Gilbert <tgilbert@husc.harvard.edu> writes:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 1994, Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205) wrote:
> > >
> > How much does it cost to import a UK vehicle into Canada?
Beyond the actual price of the vehicle, our quote is about a
thousand dollars per vehicle, with two required to fit inside a
container.
> Vehicles must be more than 15 years old in order to avoid having to meet
> emission and safety requirements set by the Canadian governments. Lots of
> paperwork involved. So that precludes the newer models.
This is the only important restriction. Meet this one, and a bunch
of paperwork and you can bring any Land Rover, 101FC, etc into
Canada.
> As for Land Rover availability in Canada; for the most part, enthusiasts
> are working on what remains of vehicles sold there up until 1972, when
> sales stopped. Range Rovers are available, at a horrendous price new, and
> with limited used stuff on the market.
There are still an awful lot of these around, concentrated in
Ontario/Quebec and British Columbia. Of the supposed 16,000
imported into Canada, looking at how common they are in the USA,
I'd say most came here rather than there.
> For a while the British military was a good source of vehicles and parts
> in western Canada. The wide open spaces of Alberta are used as training
> areas for many NATO forces. The British forces brought their own Land
> Rovers over for the exercises. One friend has photos of rank upon rank of
> Lightweights being auctioned off. That supply has now dried up, because
> of the previously-mentioned government legislation. Now all that appears
> are donor vehicles, most of which have been run over by 40-ton main
> battle tanks, flipped over, or otherwise rendered inoperable.
About ten came into Ottawa in the last sale that they had. The
reason behind the cessation of the sale is well known here in
Ottawa and is better left undiscussed. Frames etc. are still
available and go to auction on a regular basis. Unfortunately, for
the individual, the sales are in large lots, but contacts with some
of the salvage yards in Alberta can result in a frame.
> I fear I may have waited too long before making the move to get a Land
> Rover, but I'll keep looking.
If you want a Land ROver to completely restore, ie the frame just
isn't there and condition is "poor", you could have one in a couple
of days if you really want. Better condition LRs require a bit
more time to locate.
> How would I get two vehicles back to Canada? The thought of
> driving 3,000 miles (4,500 kilometres) in a Landy, towing another vehicle
> was a little too much for me to comprehend. Although I know it's not the
> most arduous project ever undertaken by a Land Rover or its owner.
Drive it up and over the border. You have to pre-clear it through
US Customs when you leave the country with it, clear it into Canada
(an expensive formality, GST being in effect) but rather painless.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 22:27:53 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover sold!?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 19:05:55 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike McDermott just phoned to say that Land Pover has been sold to
BMW. They will one about 80% of Rover Group, with Honda owning the
balance. Apparently it was presented as a fait acomplis.
Time to put the flag at half mast...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 18:29:49 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 16:29:21 PST From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: dragginh clutch Status: RO > Greg, > I have the identical problem with my 70 series IIA. I've rebuilt the > slave cylinder, replaced the slave cylinder, bleed the sucker many > times, rebuilt the master cylinder, put new flex hose and new pipe > leading to the slave but the same problem presists. I currently have > it at the local LR guru's shop. He thinks the problem lies in the > pressure plate and will be removing the clutch this week. > Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com > >>Let me know what happens - as I said I just had the clutch off and >>everything looked okay - I did replace the flex clutch line but everything >>else I left the same. I do think that the clutch master may be getting a >>little worn - but the funny thing is that it drags after the wet days. I >>never had the problem in a drier climate. It seems to me that something >>must be sticking to something else. I do have a newer diaphragm style >>clutch - and you?? Oh yes - and I too have a 70 IIa. >>Greg Hiner I had a few people reply that they had a similar problem so I thought I'd reply to Greg through the NET. The problem on my LR turn out to be a sheared pin in the the rod that moves the clutch withdrawl mechanism. He said that he has seen this happen before but usually the clutch stops working completely. The pin is located right next to the transmission near where the slave cylinder attaches to the arm that moves the ROD. Clutch works great now. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 18:48:05 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 19:46:14 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Ian wrote: >4) Spray the screws holding the drum housing with loosening fluid and undo. The screws may have gunk in the slots, so angle the the screw-driver so that the blade can be used to gouge the dirt out of the slot and wack the handle of the screw-driver with the hammer -- this should clear out the dirt. If the slot is clear and the screw still won't turn, place the blade of the screw-driver into the slot of the screw, and as far the the left as it will go. Tilt the screw-driver 'out' (away from the axle-line) and again, wack the back of the screw-driver. This should force the screw to turn. 5) Remove the brake drum from the wheel bearings. They are probably jammed in place by rust, dust and gunk, so hammer (hard!) between the wheel studs to shake the drum loose of the gunk, and then pull the drum off. [Tip. If you thread the wheel nuts onto the studs, you can protect the top of the studs from misplaced hammer-blows.] If you can, clean the area with compressed air. as for 4) use an impact driver, if ya got one. and for 5) each drum has a threaded hole (or two, or three??) that has threads that are the same size as the bolts holding the drive flange on the hubs.....IF you are fortunate enough to still have clean threads there (a relative term), threading one drive flange bolt into there and giving it a good twist (not good enough to strip it) you stand a good chance of loosening the drum enough to remove it by hand......this has worked for me (when a heavy hammer didn't). as for reassembly, I usually put BOTH springs on the shoes, in their proper orientation, place one shoe in position, and lever (screwdriver placed on an appropriate spot) the other into position. You do need to be careful not to f-up the slots on the wheel cylinder pistons, and yes, it helps to have no fluid pressure in dem brakes......this method avoids having to get a tight spring into a tiny hole using pliers or whatever ya got-a method that invariably leaves me with bleeding knuckles. rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jan 31 18:58:39 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 94 19:57:36 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO fug. must be time to drive nigel over my beemer, repeat in reverse, forward, reverse, forward, and send the remains to berlin. mike-tell those blokes on the airstrip to warm a spitfire up for me, too. rd nige and a piece o' shit 318 that can only run on dry pavement.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 02:27:56 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:25:12 +0000
To: lro@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 08:24:46 GMT
Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> I'll be damned if I'll go round with a silly round badge stuck on
> my rad.
Who can make BMW badges with big red stripes through them?
> The newscast I heard it on made a significant comment when the
> newsman asked the specialist correspondent whether this meant the
> possibility of greater investment in Land Rover.His answer was that,
> yes,*everyone* wants Land Rover,its a "smashing company".
Remember -- BMW do luxury cars, and have no 4WD. The landy will stay
(much) the same, but the poor Range Rover will be warped out of all
recognition!!!!
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#=========================================================================#
Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car that was meant to survive the charge of a adult
bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver
and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 03:35:28 1994 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Fitting Brake shoes to Drum brakes -- the whole experience. (rfc (fwd) To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 9:41:30 GMT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Ian says: > Please comment, refine and ammend 'till it's right. > Caring for your Aluminim Friend, Chapter x > (removing & replacing brake shoes) ..... >4) Spray the screws holding the drum housing with loosening fluid.. >..screw-driver 'out' (away from the axle-line) and again, wack the back >of the screw-driver. This should force the screw to turn. Or use an impact driver - this is an ideal application. > 5) Remove the brake drum from the wheel bearings. They are probably > jammed in place by rust, dust and gunk, so hammer (hard!) between the wheel > studs to shake the drum loose of the gunk, and then pull the drum off. ... The brake drum is a cast component. You really don't want to hit it with a hammer - drum fracture later at speed could be spectacularly messy. Let time and a _good releasing fluid_ (not WD40) have a go first. > any comments? Thanks for the account, I'll leave others to comment further. Best Regards, Steve. '79 Rangey, ex SIII Lightweight. -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 05:04:22 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Land Rover bibles? To: tgilbert@husc.harvard.edu (Terry Gilbert) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:19:36 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9401302114.B27850-0100000@husc4.harvard.edu> from "Terry Gilbert" at Jan 30, 94 09:00:14 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1995 Status: RO > This time around I'd like some recommendations on what reference > books/manuals to get on the Land Rover. I've been eyeing Lindsay Porter's > "Guide to Purchase and DIY Restoration" as a good first choice. I can't > seem to find it here in Boston, so the best deal I've seen is that > offered by Birmingham LR Services (Bat Fastard) in LRO International > (13.95 Pounds Sterling, less 14.9% for overseas customers). Can anyone > recommend a better deal from anyone else. > > And what else is out there that is a "must-have"? Thanks in advance for > your responses. > Please note that the 14.9% off that you quote does *not* apply to books. This is because VAT (UK sales tax) is zero-rated for books and is therefore not included in the price in the first place. (Afterthought: why do suppliers almost always say 'take 14.9% off'? It's more accurate to say 'divide by 1.175', since the VAT rate is 17.5%. Gripe mode off.) However, #13.95 is still the best price you will get and the book is an excellent complement to the various manuals. As for 'must have': get the factory manuals. For the II/IIA they cost approximately #25 each (part 1 - Engine, clutch and gearbox; part 2 - everything else) plus #30 for the parts catalogue. #20 buys you the single-part series III manual and #23 the III's parts catalogue, all available from the LRO bookshop. I know this sounds like a fortune, but it is worth it in the long run. The only other manuals I would recommend are the Haynes and Autobooks versions, both available from Brooklands Books and possibly the LRO bookshop. These are both based on the factory manuals but there are annoying variations in the procedures for various operations - these do not actually cause problems, but one is sometimes in doubt as to which one to follow. I tend to use the Haynes for 'side of the road' jobs, and do everything else from the factory manuals. Sorry all the prices are in pounds, but I hope this helps. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 04:26:02 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Removing Brake Drums To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 10:22:55 GMT Status: RO Whatever anyone says,mine *always* get a thumping to get them off,but I use a copper hammer.My drums also have "forcing holes" in them(good old steam engine practice).These are tapped holes into which you can screw a bolt,and force the drum off,or at least start it on its journey.The holes,needless to say,have no corresponding holes in the hub. A word of warning.A colleague bought a pair of new,non-genuine drums for his wife's S111 88",and found that instead of the three attachment screw holes,they had only one,the drum being effectively secured after that by the wheel.The possibility of these drums being secured to run truly is almost nil.The likelihood of anyone else buying such drums is remote,but I thought still worth the mention. Cheers Mike Rooth (Still mightily pissed off)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 06:15:00 1994 Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Ian Stuart R) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 10:49:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <MAILQUEUE-101.940201082446.448@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk> from "Ian Stuart, R" at Feb 1, 94 08:24:46 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1380 Status: RO Ian Stuart, R writes: > > > I'll be damned if I'll go round with a silly round badge stuck on > > my rad. > Who can make BMW badges with big red stripes through them? > > > The newscast I heard it on made a significant comment when the > > newsman asked the specialist correspondent whether this meant the > > possibility of greater investment in Land Rover.His answer was that, > > yes,*everyone* wants Land Rover,its a "smashing company". > Remember -- BMW do luxury cars, and have no 4WD. The landy will stay > (much) the same, but the poor Range Rover will be warped out of all > recognition!!!! As I understand it BMW have wanted to get into the small car market and the offroad/SUV market, but couldn't afford to do either from scratch. What better way to achieve this than buy the offroad market leaders, particularly if you get a range of small cars thrown in for free :-) A question springs to mind - will Honda just take the money and run (they own about 20% of Rover), or will they stick around and design a few BMW's? -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 05:08:49 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 01 Feb 94 08:24:46 GMT."
<MAILQUEUE-101.940201082446.448@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 06:07:42 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Well, it's all over the front pages here (last night and this AM),
The Germans (who have this whole social/political/union life, that almost
holds them back) have given assurances that they'll not move manufacturing
out of the U.K. at the expens of jobs.
The LR/RR works is one of the most profitable small volume (74,000 unit) car
manufacturers in Europe, and is clearly the prize of the deal.
As it turns out Honda still owns the other 20% of Rover, and BMW says that they
don't plan on undoing those agreements. The Independent states that Honda
was offered the other 80% share, but only wanted up to 50%, and turned down
the offer. (so get one of those H badges with a slash through it !!!)
BMW will gain a complete line of vehicles, including the low end rovers cars
(nee Hondas and Honda decendants) and reportedly is interested in reviving
the lower volume prestige/sport marques of the Rover clan (TR, Austin Healy
& Rielys), and promises to spend at least #250M/year on improvments.
Cost was #800M, and BMW will assume another #900M in Rover debt that BAe has
accrued over the years. Rover made $56M on a gross of #4.6bn in 1989
The deal stil requires shareholder & EC approvals.
- Bill caloccia@stratus.com
Temporarily at (at least through 4 Feb):
Stratus Computer Ltd
Hounslow, Middlesex, UK
tele: 081 570 4433
fax: 081 569 4755
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 09:08:06 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:18:33 +0000
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:17:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> >> > I'll be damned if I'll go round with a silly round badge stuck on
> >> > my rad.
> >> Who can make BMW badges with big red stripes through them?
>
> I am getting one next time I pass a BMW dealer. Goes on upside down.....
>
> Be interesting (depressing?) to see what happens to the keep-it-the-same
> policy of Landrovers. Who wants to bet on new models every few years,
> monocoque construction in pressed tin, spares discontinued after 10 years
etc,
> etc?
>
> Still, be nice to be able to get an electric tinted sunroof and velour seats
> for my 90 van.
Rust, depreciation, expensive parts -- ain't life wonderful.
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#=========================================================================#
Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car that was meant to survive the charge of a adult
bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver
and a crescent wrench.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 09:44:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk (Richard Jones) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:37:50 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402011049.aa00895@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at Feb 1, 94 10:49 am Status: RO Fine,I grant you that it makes sense for BMW to buy the off-road market leaders,rather than try to get there on their own. But who but the biggest fools in the universe would be so stupid as to SELL them the market leaders?Three guesses.First prize one BMW,second two BMWs......... Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 11:12:57 1994 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 09:04:43 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: dragginh clutch Status: RO In message <940131162921_8@ccm.hf.intel.com> Bruce Harding writes: > > Greg, > > I have the identical problem with my 70 series IIA. I've rebuilt the > > slave cylinder, replaced the slave cylinder, bleed the sucker many > > times, rebuilt the master cylinder, put new flex hose and new pipe > > leading to the slave but the same problem presists. I currently have > > it at the local LR guru's shop. He thinks the problem lies in the > > pressure plate and will be removing the clutch this week. > > Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com > > > >>Let me know what happens - as I said I just had the clutch off and > >>everything looked okay - I did replace the flex clutch line but everything > >>else I left the same. I do think that the clutch master may be getting a > >>little worn - but the funny thing is that it drags after the wet days. I > >>never had the problem in a drier climate. It seems to me that something > >>must be sticking to something else. I do have a newer diaphragm style > >>clutch - and you?? Oh yes - and I too have a 70 IIa. > > >>Greg Hiner > > > I had a few people reply that they had a similar problem so I thought I'd > reply to Greg through the NET. The problem on my LR turn out to be a > sheared pin in the the rod that moves the clutch withdrawl mechanism. He > said that he has seen this happen before but usually the clutch stops > working completely. The pin is located right next to the transmission > near where the slave cylinder attaches to the arm that moves the ROD. > Clutch works great now. > > Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com > An overlooked cause for a draging clutch and or brakes that after adjustment are still near the floor are elongated holes where one metal moving part joins another. The holes at the top of my TR3 clutch & brake peddels where the master cylinder pushrods attach were elongated nearly 100%. This ment I needed to push the peddels at least an inch before the linkage started to work. The cure is to weld up the hole and redrill it. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 11:39:53 1994 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 09:28:40 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British Status: RO In message <MAILQUEUE-101.940201082446.448@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk> "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" writes: body of message removed > ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 > Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. > #=========================================================================# > Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car " "that was meant to survive the charge of a adult > bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a > screwdriverand a crescent wrench." Ian, Do you know where this saying came from? It is one I thought I made up years ago and probably mentioned off and on in postings since '87. Could be I heard it or read it before & forgot the source. But it would have to be at least from 1980. i have been using that phrease since at least then and it has been seen by most anyone on the Land Rover and British car mail list. Just wondering. This reminds me of a short artical I wrote on installing webbing on the TR3 hood sticks. I had an accompanying drawing showing diminsions and refered to it in the artical. I wrote it for the Triumph Travelers Sports Car Club newsletter about 6 or 7 years ago. And over the years I have seen the artical reprinted in several club newsleters and one national club news letter almost all minus the drawing. Each source credited the source they lifted it from and my name as the author disappeared long ago. Not that it maters, I just wish they could have copied the drawing so the artical could have really helped people reweb their sticks. Take care, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 11:48:48 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 1994 11:40:00 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Dieseling - on gas that is Status: RO What are the cures for an engine that has fits of dieseling - ie running on erratically a few seconds after the ignition is turned off. I have heard that turning down the idle is one method but I can't go much lower than it is now. Is the carb running too rich? I have checked this and the timing many times - but they seem correct. Any ideas? Best - Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Hiner (512) 471-7277 Computer Support hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu Garrison Hall University of Texas at Austin
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 13:48:47 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 14:38:28 EST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402011026.AA19410@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Feb 1, 94 10:26 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Russell, > Since its a joint op,I've ordered a Mosquito,fully bombed up, > With an F4U1 Corsair for you to fly top cover.How's that? > Mike > > I am sure we can muster up enough volunteers to fly a force of B-1's while we are at it! C'mon Men (and Women)! rd
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 14:22:20 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Keeping Land Rover *BRITISH* Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 12:17:25 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO So after being the first one to post a possible BMW buy of LR, the LA Times ran the article today. Even the LA times was saying there goes the last of the large British auto makers. The article mentioned how pissed Honda was and that the Rover group took a 13.? million loss last year, but expected a reboud this year. The only heartening thing in the article was that the deal still has to be approved by the British Aerospace stockholders and the British Government. So there is a slim chance that the $1.2 billion deal won't go through. If the deal does go through, the furture may be grim. 10 years from now I can see people saying that the Land Rover was a great car, but the only good new 4x4s are Hummers and Land Cruisers. Sigh... Where's the Spitfire squadron forming up? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 14:58:24 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: BMW Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:45:22 Status: RO so, any suggestions for good license plate frame sayings? The Best BMW By Far My Other Car is NOT Beamer The Ugliest BMW i'm sure folks can come up with ones better than i have... suggestions?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 14:55:41 1994 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 13:44:39 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: BMW Status: RO Hey, for my money there is nothing like a good Cav outfit. So give me an M1-A1HA with a full combat load of 120MM smooth bore main rounds and a Master Gunner on board. Plus it can do 70 on the autobaun. Let's see if a BMW can out run a sabot main round. Gawd! Has the Empire really let the sun set on it? Roy-Montana, Big Sky Country-Topside Up Over
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 16:25:28 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Dieseling - on gas that is Date: 1 Feb 1994 22:17:57 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <199402011741.LAA01615@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu>, Greg Hiner <hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu> wrote: >What are the cures for an engine that has fits of dieseling - ie running on >erratically a few seconds after the ignition is turned off. I have heard >that turning down the idle is one method but I can't go much lower than it >is now. Is the carb running too rich? I have checked this and the timing >many times - but they seem correct. Any ideas? > >Best - Greg > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Greg Hiner (512) 471-7277 >Computer Support hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu >Garrison Hall >University of Texas at Austin > > I've always chalked this up to the blend of gasoline available now. My present Land-Rover, with a 2.25 Series II engine, has been up and running for two years now, and has always had this problem to some extent. Before then, my last Land-Rover went off the road in 1985, so it had been 7 years without driving the 2.25 engine. Up until '85, I didn't have many problems with after-running (I'd say I looked after about 50+ Rovers then). I don't think it's timing, because I used to time by ear and didn't have this problem. Living in Los Angeles, I've attributed run-on to a change to an emissions blend in the years that I didn't run a Land-Rover. Another culprit could be bad carbon build up, which means removing the head to clean it. I do know that when I ran without a thermostat (finding a Series II thermostat is another story!) that my after-run went away, and returned with the new thermostat. Good luck! Let me know if you find a(the) solution. Randy
From ccernest Mon Jan 31 07:53:33 1994 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 07:49:05 -0600 (CST) From: <ccernest@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Subject: Gopher LULU To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Please look at the last paragraph associated with MAN PAGES (it needs to be deleted or vastly modified). --> 3. HOWTO --> 6. MAN PAGES --> 1. MAN PAGES (last paragraph) Thanks, Ernest PS - the PINE document looks good. Have you been in contact with Dave Martin about getting all email addresses in the Pine directory?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 19:54:10 1994 From: POLSTAB@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 19:36:28 CST To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Keep Land Rover British In-Reply-To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk -- Tue, 1 Feb 1994 14:17:54 GMT Status: RO What is really strange is the British car that evolved straight out of WWII ends up being purchased by a German company. The WSJ mentioned today that BMW was pleased. " 'This is different from a normal takeover,' a triumphant Chairman Bernd Pitschetsrieder said during a Lonfon news conference..." To the business community, it's just a smart move of one firm getting market position. But it's the war.... the Germans just didn't need an army this time. So, ya'll, forget the Spitfires. Rovers are for infantry. Ask a friend w/ a BMW to follow you for a little drive... Pick a nice road, or no road at all. cheers thad brown '71 88" - The Blue Beast
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 03:09:01 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Rumour...... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 09:06:45 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >> I work with a guy in the California National Guard and he think the >> hummer is one of the best 4x4s ever built. So it is unclear if there were >> any limitatations. >Too big, too heavy I had heard. Never seen one so cant really comment though. They looked very impressive in the news shots of the Golf War (Folk take sport so seriously nowadays). But Top Gear (An awful yuppie car program over here) tried one out and immediately got it stuck on a 20degree sand incline. A Discovery sneered by effortlessy. I reckon I could have got my old 2wd up it! I guess the 3 1/2 tons really snarfs em up on soft going - I thought the 90 was too heavy....... But Unimogs are nigh on unstoppable. So, what's the answer?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 07:06:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Rumour...... Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 12:11:20 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >didnt appear to be an awful lot of clearance between the diff >and ground.So when travelling over rutted ground,with the front I thought they had portal axles like the Unimog and HUGE ground clearance? But I've not looked closely, it's just an impression gained from piccies on the telly.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 01:33:36 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re:Rumour,Rumour,Rumour Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 01 Feb 1994 23:29:54 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO Note: I spazed and repled this straight to Daryl and not to the the mailing list. So now I'm posting it to the list..... In message <9402020423.AA23136@sun1> Daryl Webb writes: > The story goes that duing the Desert Storm campaign and other NATO exercises > the US army became aware of limitations in its current vehicle fleet. They > were supposed to have been impressed by the performance of your friend and > mine the Land Rover Defender. I work with a guy in the California National Guard and he think the hummer is one of the best 4x4s ever built. So it is unclear if there were any limitatations. > As a result of this the US Army is contemplating a modified Defender series > for their use. (Even rumoured to be interested in the Australian built 6x6 > "perentje" type vehicles - and the local 4x4 long range reconnaissance > vehicles) I know that the 75th Infantry Regiment (Rangers) got some Defender 110s from the Land Rover Special Operations Vehicles Division. This was reported in Rover's North Newsletter of Summer 1992. A similar article appreared in Land Rover Owner in the June 1992 edition (pp 8-9). The LRO hints of a US destination for the vehicles (LR asked them not to spill the beans). "I first learned of the requirements of this Special Operations Vehicle as the Gulf War ended..." (LRO, p.9). The Vehicle has roll bars, weapons ring, no top or windshield and the 2.5 diesel TDi engine. This may be where your rumer came from. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Series III 88 Land Rover
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 02:09:27 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Wed, 2 Feb 1994 08:05:50 +0000
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 08:05:21 GMT
Subject: Re: BMW
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> From: leefi@microsoft.com
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: BMW
> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 12:45:22
> so, any suggestions for good license plate frame sayings?
>
> The Best BMW By Far
> My Other Car is NOT Beamer
> The Ugliest BMW
>
> i'm sure folks can come up with ones better than i have... suggestions?
>
>
British Made Workhorse
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#=========================================================================#
"Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car that was meant to survive the charge of a adult
bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver
and a crescent wrench." -- TeriAnn
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 03:22:26 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Rumour, Rumour, Rumour To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 9:19:07 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402020423.AA23136@sun1>; from "Daryl Webb" at Feb 2, 94 1:52 pm Status: RO Hi Daryl, There was a photo article featuring these SVO defenders in the LRO, pssibly following the note Ben mentioned.The weapons fit wasnt English and the most Bob Morrison would say was that the vehicles were LHD, with speedo's calibrated in MPH.The rest was left as an excercise for the reader!I seem to remember some of Dixon's mob came across some US Army folk,who wouldt admit to the existance of these machines. But you'd be better asking him,really. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 04:18:58 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: BMW := British Motor Works
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Feb 94 08:05:21 GMT."
<MAILQUEUE-101.940202080521.288@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 05:17:48 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> The Best BMW By Far
> My Other Car is NOT Beamer
> The Ugliest BMW
British Made Workhorse
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 04:24:22 1994
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Rumour, Rumour, Rumour
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 02 Feb 1994 09:19:07 GMT."
<9402020919.AA04988@hpc.lut.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 02:22:22 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
Mike Rooth writes:
>There was a photo article featuring these SVO defenders in the LRO,
>pssibly following the note Ben mentioned.The weapons fit wasnt English
>and the most Bob Morrison would say was that the vehicles were LHD,
>with speedo's calibrated in MPH.The rest was left as an excercise for
>the reader!I seem to remember some of Dixon's mob came across some
>US Army folk,who wouldt admit to the existance of these machines.
>But you'd be better asking him,really.
Yup, this was the article that I was talking about. The article in
the Rover's North Newsletter used one of the two pictures that LRO used in
their article. RN's article said (on page 8):
"This highly modified 110 weapons platform is now in service with our own
Army Rangers. Powered by Land Rover's 2.5 litre diesel TDI, it is fitted with
a warn winchm heavy duty brush bar and a long range fuel tank. The U.S.
military has a history of using Land Rovers in specialist roles."
Here's the article I referred to from LRO June 1992, page 9 (two
pictures on page 8) by Bob Morrison...
"REGULAR reader's will have notices the occasional reference to a new
Special Forces vehicle over the last few month's. These photos are the first
published other than a few publicity shots in the company's own recent
lierature.
On Good Friday we were given exclusive access to the Defender SOV at
Solihull.
I first learned of the requirement for this Special Operations Vehicle
as the Gulf War ended, but was asked by Solihull to keep quiet until the
contract had been signed and the vehicles dispatched. Even now, Solihull
refused to name the end user, discuss the weapons fit or even confirm the
engine type. In the world of military sales, client confidentiality rules
supreme. I do know the end users however, and hope eventually to get further
information from my military contacts in th country of use.
As is obvious from the photos, the SOV is based on a 110 minus doors,
windscreen, roof, etc., and with rear doorways cut in the sides aft of the
bulkhead. The rear body panels are cut down by about 100mm, and the rear
compartment is stripped out, but the seat belts in this compartment suggest
a third seat under the weapons ring and to more occasional seats to the rear.
The front bulkhead is also cut down, to bonnet level, and is
substantially stiffened to take the tubular bracing strut for the front weapons
platform hoop. The layout of the weapons mount frame is self-evident but note
the transverse box section on the rear crossmember. The front bumper has been
replaced by a similar box section which carries a Warn winch and heavy duty
brush guard - the rectangular frames over the wings may be for jerrycans, but
at this stage I'm not too sure.
As for the weapons platform between the hoops, which is a moch-up on
the photographed vehicle, this is probably Kevlar panel. An in-house photo
shows a ring similar in layout and dimensions to that of Hum-Vee (Hummer). It
is probably capible of taking TOW, Milan, Bushmaster, ASP, Mk19 Grenade Launcher
or similar --Land Rover refuse point blank to comment on weapnos fit on the
productinon vehicle.
The Demonstrator, which will be on display at Euro-Satory in Paris
in June is powered by the 200Tdi engine and my betting is that the production
similarly equipped. As for base colour, the demonstrotor is roughly the
same sandy shade as used on Operation Granby, but my sources tell
tell me that production batch were definatelt not finished in either a
desert or temporate skeem.
Land Rover has asked that I do not reveal the endf user, so for those
of you who haven't twigged from the rest of my past columns here are a
couple of clues. 1)although the vehice was left hand drive, the speedometer
ia calibrated in mph. 2) Look closesly at the lighting arranagement. What is
missing and why?
I'm now looking to you guys overseas to confirm the weapons fit and
colour. After all, if you could tell me that Land Rover had won the order
before they knew it, I'm sure you cn get me a photo."
Well there it is, I was board so I typed it in
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Series III 88 Land Rover
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 05:01:50 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Another Rumour To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 10:58:24 GMT Status: RO Dont know whether anyone else has heard this,but I was told yesterday that Vauxhall (GM) are to fit the Land Rover Tdi in a new diesel model yet to be announced. Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 05:28:14 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Rumour...... To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 11:26:26 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <azw.1084.00091D11@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Jan 31, 94 9:06 am Status: RO Must admit I didnt realise that Top Gear had tested a Hummer, though I agree with you,Andy,that its a *dreadful* programme. Doesnt prove anything,though,those clowns could get a Challenger Mk11 stuck in Sainsbury's car park! 3 1/2 tons is *very* heavy,though,particularly for sand work.The thing that struck me about the Hummer,in the Coalition Army Motoring Club Bahgdad Rally and Kate Adie Benefit,was that it appeared to have a very wide track *and* independant front suspension.There didnt appear to be an awful lot of clearance between the diff and ground.So when travelling over rutted ground,with the front diff bolted to the chassis (if it is),a wheel rises,the diff doesnt and youre stuck,where with a "beam" axle,the diff will rise as well.Badly explained,I know,but see what I mean? Land Rover tried this years ago,in fact Rob Ivins found one and featured the thing in an LRO article(is there anything Land Rover *havent* tried?)and decided against it.Land Rover,that is not R Ivins. What surprises me,is that the US forces havent made more use of the Jeep Renegade,or a derivative thereof.Seems quite a competant bit of kit to me,although I didnt like the way the front axle UJ's werent enclosed in a swivel housing,but were left spinning in fresh air and clag.At least they were in the two I've examined.That apart,though,seems a tough enough vehicle.Any comments from over there on this one? Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 07:23:19 1994
From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Installing an Overdrive (for the FAQ, perhaps?)
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com (I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:18:38 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9401292352.AA02418@easynet.crl.dec.com> from "I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on" at Jan 29, 94 06:53:20 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1529
Status: RO
> Special tools you will need: 2" cutter, 5/16" *Whitworth* open-end
> wrench, large punch for removing/tightening the crown nut, drill
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> motor, hacksaw. (Actually, these are pretty typical if you're a
> LR owner.)
I've not seen the Fairey(Superwinch) instruction leaflet, but if they
recommend the use of the above tool they are off their rockers!
The crown nut which holds the overdrive clutch-sleeve on the mainshaft (in
place of the mainshaft gear) needs to be tightened to a considerable degree of
torque, far greater than could be achieved using a punch. I can't remember
the figure for certain, but if memory serves, I think it is either 60lbs./ft.
or 200lbs./ft.
According to L.E.G.S. (Land Rover Engine and Gearbox Specialists) in Owestry,
the reason is that if this component is not sufficiently tightened, it will
become loose over time, allowing it and the mainshaft to float slightly, with
dire consequences for the life-expectency of the rest of the box. It is worth
remembering that the clutch-sleeve is a bearing for the overdrive input/output
sleeves.
For this reason, a special tool exists which is available from V.L. Churchill
(official Land Rover tool makers) in Daventry. It is rather expensive (#50+?)
and you may well be able to fabricate one yourself.
This tool (or suitable substitute) must always be used to secure the mainshaft
gear or overdrive clutch-sleeve, regardless of how or why it has been removed.
Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 1 22:25:07 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Rumour, Rumour, Rumour
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:52:10 CST
Status: RO
Hi all, as this group has shown its crystal ball abilities I'd like comments
on a rumour that I heard recently.
The story goes that duing the Desert Storm campaign and other NATO exercises
the US army became aware of limitations in its current vehicle fleet. They
were supposed to have been impressed by the performance of your friend and
mine the Land Rover Defender.
The gossip continues.
As a result of this the US Army is contemplating a modified Defender series
for their use. (Even rumoured to be interested in the Australian built 6x6
"perentje" type vehicles - and the local 4x4 long range reconnaissance
vehicles)
If this goes ahead the vehicle will be built under license in the US by a
conglomerate involving Ford, GM, and other US makers.
I was even told that this project was one of the reason that BMW was
interested in Rover.
It all sounds a bit far fetched to me, with lots of political problems.
Anybody over there heard anything or is this too good to be true????
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 00:23:37 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Rumour......
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:50:17 CST
Status: RO
Ben Smith in reply to my rumour:
> I work with a guy in the California National Guard and he think the
> hummer is one of the best 4x4s ever built. So it is unclear if there were
> any limitatations.
Too big, too heavy I had heard. Never seen one so cant really comment though.
> I know that the 75th Infantry Regiment (Rangers) got some Defender 110s
> from the Land Rover Special Operations Vehicles Division. This was
> reported in Rover's North Newsletter of Summer 1992. A similar article
> appreared in Land Rover Owner in the June 1992 edition (pp 8-9). The LRO
> hints of a US destination for the vehicles (LR asked them not to spill the
> beans). "I first learned of the requirements of this Special Operations
> Vehicle as the Gulf War ended..." (LRO, p.9).
Looks like I might need to consider finding the A$120 or so to subscribe to
LRO if I want to keep abreast, damn expensive for a magazine though.
> The Vehicle has roll bars,
> weapons ring, no top or windshield and the 2.5 diesel TDi engine.
Sounds a lot like our Long range reco. vehicles. Add Snorkel, winch,
bullbar, split rims etc. and the 3.9L 4DB Isuzu diesel engine, coupled to a
strengthened LT95 4sp. g/box-transfer.
> This may be where your rumour came from.
Looks like it.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 09:34:25 1994 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 10:18:17 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Installing an Overdrive (for the FAQ, perhaps?) Status: RO >I've not seen the Fairey(Superwinch) instruction leaflet, but if they >recommend the use of the above tool they are off their rockers! They do not but Haynes and RN both do. As I found out, the lock washer is the most important thing. My transmission had never been opened as far as I could tell given the exterior build up and the condition of the gasket and crown nut and yet the latter was only finger tight with the lock washer tab the only thing holding it in. Also, the design of the washer is such that you probably are not going to get specified torque (100 ft/lbs) *and* engagement of a tab in the crown nut. And of the two I can say with certainty that the most important is the lock washer. It will probably float several thousandths in time but that is all. If I'd gone for torque and not the locking tab, I'd have a hell of a lot more. I'd have bought and used the tool but it just isn't available here so I went with the Haynes and RN recommendation. monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 09:33:52 1994 Date: 02 Feb 1994 08:25:41 -0700 From: Paul Anderson <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com> To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com> Subject: My Range Rover became BMW last year Status: RO Last year my Range Rover's coolant level sensor went bad. When I went to replace it, my friendly parts guy told me that the same part is used in BMW's. The dealership uses them when the Rover ones are unavailable. The BMW part costs 1/3 that of the Rover one. Guess which one I bought? So since last summer, my Range Rover has been part BMW. Now the rest of you are just catching up...... :-) *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * |__Range_Rover__| are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 09:39:28 1994 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 08:32:53 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Hummer Status: RO I will add what I can to the conversation regarding special vehicles in use by the US Army and the Hummer. The Army has constantly bought and tested vehicles for special uses. The one most familiar to people is their use of VW powered dunebuggies for scout work. For some reason the full deployment of the buggy never happened. On one of my annual training exercises at Yalima Proving Grounds in Washington state, I saw hundreds of the buggies being trialed. The buggies still survives in the inventory but is used generally by Special Forces A teams. They used them in Saudi for deep recon on Iraqi scud sites. I have seen the 110 Rover weapons platform in official Army publications as being in service with certain Ranger units.
>From the way the PR was written it sounded like a trial, not a full blown purchase. As to it being considered as a replacement for the Hummer, I don't think so. I was in the Gulf as an Army photojournalist. The common maxim anong the troops was, If a hummer got stuck, it was driver error. I drove them a fair bit while in the desert and agree with that statement. I was the passenger in one when the driver took it up one of the few terrain features around, the grade was loose scree and sand over a volcanic base. My estimate of the grade was that it was at least 45%. There was a bit of wheel spin but not much and when we stopped on the top I realized that he had gone up it in high range 4X4. Grante the vehicle was unloaded. But impressive anyway. One night I had to drive a media guy over to a headquaters and we had to use blackout conditions. It was darker than the bottom of a well and so I couldn't really see shit. Needless to say I couldn't avoid any sand pits or anything. The only way I could tell I had hit deep sand was by the sound of the engine and how the vehicle felt. I didn't get stuck. With that said, I still don't like them. They are an open country vehicle, don't carry a spare and are not very driver maintainable. Plus they are too damm wide. Well anyway that's my experience for what it's worth. Roy-Montana, The Big Sky Country-Topside Up Over Still wanting to puke on the next BMW I see.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 2 20:39:15 1994 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 21:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: Mark <mar2@cnj.digex.com> Subject: "109" wanted To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: Mark <mar2@cnj.digex.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am in the market for a 109. I am willing to pay a fair price based on the vehicle condition. I am located near Princeton NJ (USA) Thank you
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 01:01:22 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Hummer Vs LR (Was: Re: Rumour...... )
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Feb 94 09:31:49 PST."
<9402030316.AA23371@sun1>
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 22:56:18 PST
Status: RO
In message <9402030316.AA23371@sun1> you write:
> Andy Woodward
>
>
> The "Long Range Patrol Vehicle" used for the desert and other applications
> seems to be the "Perentje". A locally built 6x6 110 derivative. These are
> constant 4x6 with the rear axle engagable at will. A very high level of
> component commonality is maintained with the 4x4 110's.
>
> Aust army claim 60 deg gradient ability with 42 deg side slope, 150 deg ramp
> over. 1000 miles range on primary roads, 800+ on secondary. 300 L main fuel
> + 50 L aux. Front and rear machine gun mounts are fitted ane two spares
> tyres are recessed into the body work.
The Hummer have a lot of ground clearance because they don't have the
standard differential to wheel connection. In most cars the drive shaft
connects to the center of the wheel. In the Hummer the drive shaft engages
a ring gear. So it looks likes this:
____ ____
| | | |
| | =====| |
====| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
---- ----
Standard Hummer
Anyway here's some data comaparing the two vehicles. The information
is from an article entitled "Trends in Light Transport Vehicle Development" and
I found it (actually Dad did and mailed it to me) in _Armada International_ in
the January 1990 edition.
Land Rover | Hummer
90 110 | M998 M1037
| Troop Carrier Shelter Carrier
============================================================================
Dimensions (Cm)
Wheelbase 236 279.4 330 -
Length 272.2 463.1 457 493
Width 179 179 216 216
Height 199.3 203.5 175 183/264
Track 149.5 148.5 181 181
Ground Clearance 20 22 40 41
Operating Weight
(Kg)
Empty 1605-1715 1640-1760 2359 2495
Gross Weight 2400-2550 2950-3050 3493 4536
Payload 920-1036 1486 max 1134 2042
Tow load with/without
brakes 4000/500 4000/750 1542/- 1905/-
Characteristics
Turning Radius(m) 11.7 12.8 14.63 -
Angle of
Approach/Departure 51/52 50/35 69/45 -
Fording Depth(m) - - 0.76 -
Max Gradient(%) - - 60
Darryl claims a similar max gradien for the LR.
Ben Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 00:04:53 1994 From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Rumour...... To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 9:31:49 CST In-Reply-To: <azw.1084.00091D11@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Jan 31, 94 09:06:45 am Sender: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au Status: RO Andy Woodward > I guess the 3 1/2 tons really snarfs em up on soft going - I thought the 90 > was too heavy....... > > But Unimogs are nigh on unstoppable. So, what's the answer? The local Military types have 'Mog's and think they are great, but too big,Too heavy for many applications. The standard "car" is a modified Aust. spec 110, there are lots of varients. The "Long Range Patrol Vehicle" used for the desert and other applications seems to be the "Perentje". A locally built 6x6 110 derivative. These are constant 4x6 with the rear axle engagable at will. A very high level of component commonality is maintained with the 4x4 110's. Aust army claim 60 deg gradient ability with 42 deg side slope, 150 deg ramp over. 1000 miles range on primary roads, 800+ on secondary. 300 L main fuel + 50 L aux. Front and rear machine gun mounts are fitted ane two spares tyres are recessed into the body work. The civilian version is mechanically identical and has found some following with serious outback tour operators and some mining companies. Last year an 1988 6x6 tray-top ute was advertised for about $45K (less than a new Disco) done about 80K miles and looked in great condition. Perhaps someone should buy one to use as a tow truck for BMW's Daryl
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:17:44 1994 Subject: Re: Rumour...... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 11:41:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9402021126.AA26078@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Feb 2, 94 11:26:26 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1154 Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > > Must admit I didnt realise that Top Gear had tested a Hummer, Stuff deleted ...
>From what I remember of the program, it wasn't stricktly a Hummer since one of the coachbuilding companies (the company in questions, name escapes me) had been at it - raised the roof, filled it with leather, wood, electronic goodies, messed about with the engine and gearbox to help it cruise down the Middle East equivalent of the Chelsea High Street. Admittedly the Discovery did make the sand dune look easy, but one wonders how much further the Hummer would have got in the hand of the Discovery driver, and following the route the discovery took? But then again given the choice between a Hummer and an auto 3.9 V-8 Discovery - it would be the Hummer that gets left behind. > Cheers > Mike Rooth > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:17:47 1994 Subject: My Range Rover became BMW last year (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 12:02:21 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1172 Status: RO Paul Anderson writes: > > > Last year my Range Rover's coolant level sensor went bad. When I went to > replace it, my friendly parts guy told me that the same part is used in > BMW's. The dealership uses them when the Rover ones are unavailable. > The BMW part costs 1/3 that of the Rover one. Guess which one I bought? > > So since last summer, my Range Rover has been part BMW. Now the rest of > you are just catching up...... :-) Have you one of those nice factory sun roof's fitted to your Range Rover? Guess where they come from ... thats correct its pulled right out of a 7-series BMW, and apparently there a quite a few other bits fitted to the Range Rover from the same source. Not to mention (the rumours), that shortly the BMW 2.5 turbo diesel is to appear in the upmarket end of the Land Rover product line up. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:17:40 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Rumours/Hummers etc To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 15:21:22 GMT Status: RO The current Hummer/Land Rover "comparison" seems to me to ignore a salient fact,namely that the former was,as far as I know,developed as a military vehicle,whereas the Land Rover products were always primarily civilian.The Hummer,it would be logical to suppose,was therefore built with cost as a secondary consideration to performance.With Land Rover products,cost must always be borne well in mind,if only to establish which niche in the market the product is to be aimed at.It is,in my view,one of Land Rover's abiding successes that it has consistantly produced a vehicle which has been pre-eminantly in demand in *both* spheres of activity,despite being introduced as an agricultural aid.Indeed, it is doutful,to say the least,if Land Rover could have survived prodcing solely military vehicles,but I suggest it *could* have done producing only for the civilian market.That is not to say,of course, that military orders were not both welcome,lucrative,and useful in terms of product development.But it must always be remembered that the early Land Rover "saw off" the Austin Champ,a vehicle designed at some trouble and expense for the army.Unfortunatley this machine was designed by a commitee.It is well known that the camel is a horse designed by a commitee! Perhaps the truest of comparisons would be to put the Hummer alongside the performance of a 101" FC Land Rover,which latter *was* specifically designed for military use. I still do not understand,(and if anyone knows,I would be interested) why the US forces ceased using the jeep,or a derivative thereof.I have had the opportunity to "nose" round a couple of Renegades in the last two years,and they seem like a very able little vehicle.Certainly they present a lower profile than the Hummer,and would present a much smaller target as a result.Granted,the carrying capacity isnt there,but given the popularity of the jeep with US forces in bygone years,the apparently universal adoption of the Hummer as a *replacement* is surprising to the uninitiated.Can anyone throw any light on this?I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Hummer was not popular with some sections of the armed forces,because it was not possible to stow them two abreast in one of the transport aircraft types (I cant remember which one), whereas it*was*,apparently possible to so do with jeeps. As for the BMW 2.5 diesel,well,judging by BMW's performance with small..ish marine diesels,or lack of it,I wouldnt personally touch one with a ten foot barge pole.Until BMW get it into their thick teutonic heads that what they produce is really nothing special,ie well marketed average machinery,and start a bit of soul searching,I fear for the well being of Land Rover.After all,IBM had this attitude,"its IBM,so it *must *be all right(and I quote),and look what happened to them.... Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:17:36 1994 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 10:15:43 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Hummer Status: RO Mike, Having driven the Hummer in the desert and most of the other mil vehicles, M-28, Duce 1/2, 5 ton, Dodge Ram and the Blazer and Bronco varients to include the M1A1-HA, this is what I know. By the way the branch that didn't like the hummer was the airforce, the army can never please those guys. The old Jeep-Willies- was just too small for use with a variety of weapons and had a small payload. The replacement was the M-28. It was a disator waiting to happen. It was small and had four corner independent supension that made it prone to roll-over. They had a hard time teaching people to drive it safely. So they started looking for a replacement. My understanding is that it needed to be a universal infantry weapons platform, plus a general support vehicle. I have seen Hummers fitted for almost anything, MP with a top ring mounted M-60, cellsite mounted for commo, ambulance, stinger mounts, you name the weapon and I have seen it mounted. It may be heavy and wide but it can take alot of punishment plus it can be safely driven by even the worst driver. All in all, I still don't like them mostly because of the driver position, they have turned out to be a good vehicle for all army operations. An SF unit stationed near the 3rd ACR in Saudi used them for deep penetration into Iraq looking for scuds. They did the job and I have never heard any complaints from the line soliders about the Hummer. What I have heard is that there aren't enough of them when units go to the field. In Saudi Hummers got misplaced alot. That's about what I can tell you. I have some annual training coming up and maybe I will be able to drive the Hummer some more. Roy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:11:15 1994 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 09:39:00 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Rumours/Hummers etc Status: RO >Granted,the carrying capacity isnt there,but given the >popularity of the jeep with US forces in bygone years,the apparently >universal adoption of the Hummer as a *replacement* is surprising to >the uninitiated.Can anyone throw any light on this? If I recall correctly some of the requirements for the the jeep replacement were o Carry 8 personel or 4 + squad gear o capable of towing med artillery piece o large ground clearance o stable for quick manuvering at medium speeds. All of these were not traits of the current jeep style vehicles. If you are going to do a Hummer vs. Defender compare how about adding the Lambo LM10 to the equation? -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:13:34 1994 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 09:46:23 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: comparisons Status: RO >Granted,the carrying capacity isnt there,but given the I live out in an area north of LA. We are kind of rural so many Hollywood pictures are shot out here an made to look like elsewhere (it's not uncommon, for example, to see police cars with Alabama or Georga markings only to find them filming down the street). At a recent shoot there were a pair of vehicles that caught my attention so I stopped. One was a custom Hummer belonging to Arnold Schwarzenegger (sp) all done up in black laquer and crome. The other was a WAY custom Rangie belonging to Patrick Swazee (sp). There seemed to be an argument over which was better and some talk of a race later, haven't found out the results yet. -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 13:17:30 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Dieseling - on gas that is To: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 17:46:54 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199402011741.LAA01615@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at Feb 1, 94 11:40:00 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1491 Status: RO > What are the cures for an engine that has fits of dieseling - ie running on > erratically a few seconds after the ignition is turned off. I have heard > that turning down the idle is one method but I can't go much lower than it > is now. Is the carb running too rich? I have checked this and the timing > many times - but they seem correct. Any ideas? A common cause of this problem is the presence of foreign bodies in the combustion chamber, typically carbon deposits (or less frequently, small whiskers of metal which have detached themselves from the engine through wear or rough handling during servicing). What happens is that these become heated to red heat by the combustion process; when the source of ignition is removed, these red-hot fragments are hot enough to ignite the mixture still being drawn into the combustion chambers by the stored energy in the flywheel. This process is erratic because the pre-ignition takes place too early in the stroke, consequently the engine slows, resulting in less frequent combustion and therefore less heating of the offending fragments, which in turn results in less pre-ignition, and so on, until the engine finally stops. The most likely location of such deposits is actually on the spark plugs - take these out, and you may well find hard, scaly deposits on or around the electrodes. If so simply replace the plugs and your problem should be fixed. If not, your engine may need de-coking. Hope this helps. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 18:17:06 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 19:07:06 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: US markets for used rovers Status: RO Random question for stateside rover-types: where would people say you can get the best price for a restored (or completely rebuilt) land rover? does the wheelbase change this. For example, in Boston, I often see ads with people selling used rovers that have been completely done over (often not new frame, but sometimes yes) for 10-20K$US (yes, i actually saw an ad for one at the higher of those prices)... of course, i don't know what price they sold at, but it gives an idea of the market... moreover, these rovers tend to be in the 10-13K range. anyone shopped for rovers of this type? anyone sold rovers of this type? here or elsewhere? random vehicles (usual frame problems, misc other problems but often cited as being mechanically dependable, with some new parts) tend to be offered at anywhere between 2500-8000$US. -jory p.s. i've been told that canadians have a different standard for things like "runs well" or "rust free" or "excelleny/good condition" and that i should therefore take lower canadian rover prices with a grain of salt... anyone have perspectives on this bit of lore? as an unrelated aside, i originally got my '74 serIII for 900$US (and the other guy probably got the better end of that deal :) but hey, it was a learning experience... and if you spread the cost of parts and (mostly my) labor over the 6 years, well... i never was good at math, so i'll leave that calculation undone.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 18:30:18 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Land Rover Info requested
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Feb 94 16:19:13 PDT."
<9402031619.A00710@SMTP.QUESTS.COM>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 16:23:19 PST
Status: RO
In message <9402031619.A00710@SMTP.QUESTS.COM> you write:
> I'm looking to buy a used Land Rover in the Southern California area.
> Do you know of any clubs, individuals, or companies that might have
> some for sale?
There is a company called British Pacific which is in Burbank which sells
Genuine Parts. When they had their shop in Pasadena, they had a bullitin
board full of advertisements for Rovers. Unfortunately, I don't have
their phone number here in the lab. They are located real close to the
Burbank airport. Try calling information to get their number.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 18:43:16 1994 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 19:35:07 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers Status: RO >where would people say you can get the best price for a restored (or >completely rebuilt) land rover? does the wheelbase change this. For >example, in Boston, I often see ads with people selling used rovers that >have been completely done over (often not new frame, but sometimes yes) for >10-20K$US (yes, i actually saw an ad for one at the higher of those >prices)... I can't comment on best price but I can give some data points. There is an outfit on Rt. 101 in southwestern New Hampshire that rebuilds and resells LandRovers. The base price for a rebuilt 88" is around $20K. And these are ground-up restorations with new frames and bulkhead, engine work, etc. I want to say the place is called 'Vintage Motorworks' but I can look up the name if anyone is interested. Monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 17:39:39 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Comparisons
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 9:02:26 CST
Status: RO
Hey Guys I didnt mean to start a war :-)
Roy mentioned that the US M-28 had a rollover problem.
When the OZ Army swapped from the SIIa/SIII landy's to the 110 they had lots
of rollovers and excursionary problems too.
Apparently people used to driving by the seat of their pants in the leaf
sprung rovers were going into corners *way* too fast in the coil sprung 110's.
Ooops over she goes! Perhaps for military applications it doesnt pay for the
vehicle to be too comfortable.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 19:46:29 1994 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 17:36:51 -0800 (PST) From: David Van Sickle <dvs@crl.com> Subject: Change of Address To: Land Rover Net <lro@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Please change my address to: dvs@crl.com Also, looking for suggestions on replacing key/headlight assembly on my IIA 109. Thanks, David
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 00:21:45 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Change of Address
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 23:32:22 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
David Van Sickle <dvs@CRL.COM> writes:
> Also, looking for suggestions on replacing key/headlight
> assembly on my IIA 109.
Find one off of a scrapped vehicle or very carefully rebuild your
current one. To buy a new one is going to cost you a minimum
US$60. They are rare and uncommon. The next qquestion is how
original you wish the vehic;le to stay. A couple of switches and a
Series III ignition will cost you a lot less.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 00:21:43 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Disco
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 23:34:35 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Was talking to Land Rover Canada yesterday.
The Disco goes on sale here June 1st.
LRC had no knowledge of the sale to BMW and were "shocked". The
sale is supposed to have no affect on LRC operations in Canada.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 00:21:48 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 23:36:25 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I understand the FAQ (July version) is to be uploaded onto an ftp
site in utah. (triumph.cs.utah.edu I believe)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 03:23:57 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Disco To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 9:15:39 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <c9g8gc6w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Feb 3, 94 11:34 pm Status: RO > > > > Was talking to Land Rover Canada yesterday. > > The Disco goes on sale here June 1st. > > LRC had no knowledge of the sale to BMW and were "shocked". The > sale is supposed to have no affect on LRC operations in Canada. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Dixon, I'm not surprised they were shocked.Rover employees first knew about it when they heard it on the radio *after* it had happened.I believe its called blitzkreig. Cheers Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 05:18:19 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Feb 94 19:35:07 EST."
<9402040032.AA05991@easynet.crl.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 94 06:15:03 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
>where would people say you can get the best price for a restored (or
>completely rebuilt) land rover? does the wheelbase change this. For
>example, in Boston, I often see ads with people selling used rovers that
>have been completely done over (often not new frame, but sometimes yes) fo
r
>10-20K$US (yes, i actually saw an ad for one at the higher of those
>prices)...
I can't comment on best price but I can give some data points.
> There is an outfit on Rt. 101 in southwestern New Hampshire that
> rebuilds and resells LandRovers. The base price for a rebuilt
> 88" is around $20K. And these are ground-up restorations with new
Cheshire Foreign Motors, they also do other british cars (like 7's) and
made some money on the side bringing rust free southern cars to NH.
(they had the remains of a S.I which was reportedly used by Hemmingway
in Africa or somewhere like that) He assembled a good rover bone yard
but it's not for use except in his restorations. I got that he liked
British cars not so as much as how lucrative it was to be a be in the
British car business.
Their '87 price for a fully re-done 109" was $27,000
(New 110" 3.8L v8s were ~$40 here in '93), and $13,000 for a nearly
rust-free California S.III 88" w/winch and OD
Rovers's North, Atlantic/British/Pacific, the place in the Pacific
North West, and DAP all offer lists of in-house and customer re-built
Rovers.
That isn't to say any of them have the best price, but they are players
in the market. For as much as I've come to dislike most of those vendors
for one reason or another.
All right Greg (?) do you want to post the rover dealer list again ?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 05:23:59 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Disco
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 03 Feb 94 23:34:35 EST."
<c9g8gc6w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 94 06:20:49 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
>Land Rover Canada yesterday.
> ... had no knowledge of the sale to BMW ...
well I suppose that says a lot 'bout LRC ....
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 08:54:59 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 08:47:47 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers Status: RO jory says: > >where would people say you can get the best price for a restored (or >completely rebuilt) land rover? does the wheelbase change this. For >example, in Boston, I often see ads with people selling used rovers that >have been completely done over (often not new frame, but sometimes yes) for >10-20K$US (yes, i actually saw an ad for one at the higher of those >prices)... of course, i don't know what price they sold at, but it gives an >idea of the market... moreover, these rovers tend to be in the 10-13K >range. anyone shopped for rovers of this type? anyone sold rovers of this >type? here or elsewhere? > There are easily more Rovers back east - no doubt - but it seems to me you have a better chance of getting one with a good frame (and swivel pin housings etc.) in the Southwest or West and that easily makes the Rover worth more no matter how many new parts the truck has on it. I too have seen these restored Rovers in the 10-20k range (the ads that is not the actual cars) and I always wonder what they sell for too. But I do think the days of the $950 Rover are pretty much over unless you are willing to do a lot of work. I talked with the owner of Roverworks some time back and they are trying to do some pretty adventurous stuff - like Tdi's in old LRs and coil sprung frames. They habe a lot of technical stuff to work out and there is a real question whether somebody wants to spend that much for a LR. Also with the new BMW deal who knows what cars we will see in the states? I did speak with a LR guy who didn't rule out their bringing over the Tdi - but emissions will be tough. Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Hiner (512) 471-7277 Computer Support hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu Garrison Hall University of Texas at Austin
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 09:06:03 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 08:59:16 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers Status: RO >>All right Greg (?) do you want to post the rover dealer list again ? Dixon has taken my old list and made it part of the FAQ. Best - Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Hiner (512) 471-7277 Computer Support hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu Garrison Hall University of Texas at Austin
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 09:29:26 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 09:21:36 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Sparkplugs and FAQ Status: RO The FAQ is now at triumph.cs.utah.edu in the /pub/sol directory. If you get a chance you might take a look at it and make sure the upload is good. Thanks - Dixon! Also - does anybody by chance have the proper sparkplug # (that is the type or manufacturers #) for the 2.25l. I was also looking into putting those new split electrode plugs into my Rover and the only listing I can find in their literature is for the 2.5l Rover engine starting production in 1973 - - is that the 2.5l 4 cylinder used in the LR. (Do you ever feel like you are a sucker for every new thing when every you walk into the Autozone). Would the 2.5l plugs fit the 2.25l. Best - Greg
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 11:02:53 1994 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 11:44:45 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers Status: RO > Cheshire Foreign Motors, they also do other british cars (like 7's) and > made some money on the side bringing rust free southern cars to NH. > (they had the remains of a S.I which was reportedly used by Hemmingway > in Africa or somewhere like that) He assembled a good rover bone yard > but it's not for use except in his restorations. I got that he liked > British cars not so as much as how lucrative it was to be a be in the > British car business. > > Their '87 price for a fully re-done 109" was $27,000 > (New 110" 3.8L v8s were ~$40 here in '93), and $13,000 for a nearly > rust-free California S.III 88" w/winch and OD > Yes, that's it. Now that I'm home, I have their catalog in front of me. $20K for 88, $24K for two door 109, $27K for four door, and $29K for 'Sportsman'. Add $3K for SIII spec. All come with new 2.25l engine. Other engines: $2K for 2.5l GMC, $2K for 2.25l LR diesel, $6K for 4.8l GMC. They *do* now have a list of incomplete or untouched used LRs so I'll toss in their address: Cheshire Foreign Auto Service 441 East Main Street Marlborough, NH 03455 603.876.4613 monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 11:54:30 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Sparkplugs and FAQ To: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 17:35:01 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199402041522.JAA08922@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at Feb 4, 94 09:21:36 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1466 Status: RO > Also - does anybody by chance have the proper sparkplug # (that is the type > or manufacturers #) for the 2.25l. I was also looking into putting those > new split electrode plugs into my Rover and the only listing I can find in > their literature is for the 2.5l Rover engine starting production in 1973 - > - is that the 2.5l 4 cylinder used in the LR. (Do you ever feel like you > are a sucker for every new thing when every you walk into the Autozone). > Would the 2.5l plugs fit the 2.25l. 2.5 engines were introduced with the 90/110, so it's hard to see how production can have started in 1973... 2.5 plugs would very probably fit the 2.25 *physically*, but may well not be suitable in terms of their heat range, etc. - I can't comment on this 'cos I don't know. The 'correct' plug for the 2.25 depends (albeit very slightly) on the compression ratio and the age of the vehicle. SII/IIA vehicles are supposed to use the Champion N8 (regardless of compression ratio), but this plug is now discontinued - a suitable replacement is Champion N5C. The SIII is supposed to use the N8 (ie N5C) for 7:1 CR engines, and the NY12C (? not sure about this one, I'll have to check...) for 8:1 CR. I would not advise the use of the NGK BP5ES/BP6ES sometimes recommended, as I have found them to be more prone to the dieseling problem mentioned earlier. Having said all that, if plugs carry a different numbering scheme in North America - sorry! Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 20:19:51 1994 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 10:54:44 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Change of Address Cc: dvs@CRL.COM, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Status: RO David, Dixon is right, don't waste $60 on that piece of junk. It's only worth about $10K in good original condition. Why not just steal a wall switch from your apartment building and cut a big hole in the dash to stick it in. You don't need a key, no one would *want* to take it anyway, and most theives are to dumb to know how to drive it. Regards, Bill G. --- Duct tape IS the force, it has a dark side.---
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 3 22:20:22 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Change of Address > Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Content-Length: 592 > X-Lines: 19 > > David Van Sickle <dvs@CRL.COM> writes: > > > Also, looking for suggestions on replacing key/headlight > > assembly on my IIA 109. > > Find one off of a scrapped vehicle or very carefully rebuild your > current one. To buy a new one is going to cost you a minimum > US$60. They are rare and uncommon. The next qquestion is how > original you wish the vehic;le to stay. A couple of switches and a > Series III ignition will cost you a lot less. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 4 15:52:16 1994
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 16:38:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Job Opening at Rovers North
To: LRO <LRO@stratus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
Jay Allen of Rovers North missed the earth quakes of California and has
moved back there. (Really, he just couldn't take the cold winters...)
Anyway, Rovers North is looking for his replacement. Land Rover
enthusiasts with mechanical experience/parts knowledge might think about
calling RN ((802) 879-0032). It's long hours, low pay, rural atmosphere,
no nightlife, and all the talk about Rovers anyone could ever want...
(it's also a good group of folks to work with and has benefits and little
things like that...)
thought everyone out there might like to know -
jan
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 5 15:26:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Fitting Brake shoes to Drum brakes -- the whole experience. (rfc From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 15:29:08 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Ian Stuart, R(D)SVS (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk> writes: > OK folks -- my first, tentitive steps at work on Obediah, The Brakes! > > Please comment, refine and ammend 'till it's right. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Caring for your Aluminim Friend, Chapter x > (removing & replacing brake shoes) So far so good. I have only a couple of things to add. Taking off the drums. When I first got mine, the drums were frozen on due to rust. Solution, eight pound sledge. I do not recommend this, but they had to come off, and at the time I didn't care if it came off in pieces. Cracked one and bought a new one. they are expensive. When the three screws are removed - I use a impact driver with a slot head, the type you hit with a hammer - I insert the screw into the threaded hole to pull the drum away from the hub. once off, I put a tiny amount of anti seize compound in a circle on the inside where the bolt holes are. Keep it well away from the actual surface and brake pads. Next tim,e it comes off easily. Buy a brake spring tool. These are not an optional piese of equipment. It cuts the time to remove and put on springs by half.( that should have read piece) They are also inexpensive. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 01:43:23 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Disco
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 21:31:42 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> > LRC had no knowledge of the sale to BMW and were "shocked". The
> > sale is supposed to have no affect on LRC operations in Canada.
> I'm not surprised they were shocked.Rover employees first knew about
> it when they heard it on the radio *after* it had happened.I believe
> its called blitzkreig.
Blitzkrieg is a good description of the sale. BTW, the woring I
used could imply that LRC didn't know until Tuesday about the sale.
The knew on Monday when people started to phone them from to tell
them what they had heard. I wonder how low down the totem pole the
information was actually known within Rover.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 01:43:22 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 21:40:06 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes:
> Dixon has taken my old list and made it part of the FAQ.
True, but there has not been any traffic since you originally
posted it to dentoe many additions or changes to the list. If
anyone has any additions or changes...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 01:44:01 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: US markets for used rovers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 1994 21:42:36 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> writes:
> Yes, that's it. Now that I'm home, I have their catalog in front of
> me. $20K for 88, $24K for two door 109, $27K for four door, and
> $29K for 'Sportsman'. Add $3K for SIII spec. All come with new
> 2.25l engine. Other engines: $2K for 2.5l GMC, $2K for 2.25l LR diesel,
> $6K for 4.8l GMC.
I just received a notice from a chap in Vancouver BC that will have
101FC's for sale. Cdn$13,000 is the stated price. Unfortunately I
don't have the cash, though I bet you I could better the price,
including shipping, by getting one directly from the UK.
A 101? hmmmm, though a Range Rover is also an attractive option.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 11:31:50 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Fitting Brake shoes to Drum brakes -- the whole experience. (rfc
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 10:09:06 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> So far so good. I have only a couple of things to add. Taking off the
> drums. When I first got mine, the drums were frozen on due to rust.
> Solution, eight pound sledge. I do not recommend this, but they had to
> come off, and at the time I didn't care if it came off in pieces.
> Cracked one and bought a new one. they are expensive.
Sledge, gallons of penetrating oil, lots of heat (though this was
done in the middle of February on my 109), and a tremendous amount
of time if they have had 20 years to anneal themselves into one
solid piece. Some on the list may remembe my trials at getting the
drums off...
> Buy a brake spring tool. These are not an optional piese of equipment.
> It cuts the time to remove and put on springs by half.( that should have
> read piece) They are also inexpensive.
A wonderful tool, especially if one is in the habit of going
off-road fairly often. The fine mud and clay in Almonte will
destroy a set of pads in a few months.
BTW, the adjusters on your 88. Are they 1/2"? Mine are 11/16".
Rgds,
Dixon
PS. Ted and I brought the 88 back down from near the upper field
yesterday. It took quite a while to pull it through the snow. The
snow has a lovely layer of ice, and what is underneath is very dry
sn slippery.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 11:32:11 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Change of Address
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 10:41:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes:
> You don't need a key, no one would *want* to take it anyway, and most
> theives are to dumb to know how to drive it.
I generally leave the 109 in low range fwd in hope that the
potential thief will have a marvelous high speed gataway should
they decide to borrow the beast. The other "safety" feature is the
starter switch. It is interesting to see people get in a Land
Rover, turn the key, then complain that it must be broken since
the starter doesn't turn. The fact the public is brainwashed into
a state where a vehicle must start when you turn the key tends to
confuse them when this doesn't happen.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 11:31:22 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Sparkplugs and FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 10:50:47 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes:
> Also - does anybody by chance have the proper sparkplug # (that is the type
> or manufacturers #) for the 2.25l.
Here are a few numbers... (from the next version of the FAQ)
Spark plugs: Parts: SI SII & IIA SIII 6-cyl
from "B" from "D"
Land Rover RTC3569 RTC3570 RTC3571
Champion N-5 N-5 N-9Y N-12Y N-5
AC 44XL 44XL 42LXS 44XLS 44XL
Autolile 2616 2616 52 3205 2616
- for radio interference supression, get "R" designator
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 21:57:15 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: A question for the Brits...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 20:56:12 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
A quick question for someone who lives over in the home of the Land
Rover. Assume a package weighing very nearly exactly 20 pounds, or
about 9 kilogrammes. What would the cost of postage be for this
package; between the UK and Canada; going at the various rates;
including the rate that takes about seven weeks to arrive(1)?
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, the piston rings you ask? Genuine parts, in fact they are in
so many parts you wouldn't know what they were except for the
one set of rings for one piston that are still in one piece...
Seven weeks waiting for rings to get the snow-bound Swamp Beast
back in the snow drifts, and they are smashed... <grrrr>
1. Sent on December 12th, it was available for pick-up on February
5th. Granted Communist (re: Canada) Post was involved in this
high tech computerised movement of goods, but it took less time
for General Wolfe to get over here and knock off the French on
the Plains of Abraham in 1759. The rates will be used in my
next fax leaving in the next couple of days.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 7 00:15:44 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Hummer Vs LR (Was: Re: Rumour...... )
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 00:06:30 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes:
> Land Rover | Hummer
> 90 110 | M998 M1037
> | Troop Carrier Shelter Carrier
Is this really fair? The Hummer is a military vehicle. The Land
Rover isn't. How about adding a column with the 101FC? I saw the
Hummer at the Ottawa Car show Thursday night. A wide sucker, too
wide in my opinion. Seats four with a dinner table of a gearbox
tunnel in between. Shorter (in height) than my 109, but more
ground clearance, thus less vertical useful space inside. From my
semi-former days with the Army Reserves, the Hummer wouldn't be bad
in the open countryside, but if there is any forest about, good
luck getting through it. At $70k (US I believe), give me a loaded
Range Rover. Both would proably see the same amount of off-road
driving.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 7 00:41:19 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Hummer Vs LR (Was: Re: Rumour...... )
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 07 Feb 94 00:06:30 PST."
<JP3cHc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 22:36:25 PST
Status: RO
dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca writes:
> ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes:
>
> > Land Rover | Hummer
> > 90 110 | M998 M1037
> > | Troop Carrier Shelter Carrier
>
> Is this really fair? The Hummer is a military vehicle. The Land
> Rover isn't. How about adding a column with the 101FC? I saw the
I know that this wasn't a quite fair comparison, but the thread was comparing
the Hummer and the Land Rover and I happened to remember this article.
The article compared various vehicles in their chart. They were:
Mercedes-Benz/Puch G model (standard and LWB), Sovamag TC10, UMM Alter,
Land Rover (90,110, and 127), the two Hummer mentioned above, and Bucher
(4x4 and 6x6)
I would have put in 101FC stats if I had them. Heck, I had the
money, I'd buy a 101FC and then tell the net about my impressions of the
vehicle. Oh well, maybe in 10 years or so....
-Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 7 13:16:07 1994
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 10:06:38 PST
From: growl@terminous-12.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@stratus.com, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Subject: Re: Change of Address
Status: RO
I don't remember for sure but I think that's why I said they are too dumb to
drive it. But then again I could have just been being sacastic, if it's possible
to imagine me being sarcastic.
R, bg
===========================================================================
4th law of thermodynamics:
You can't get more work out of your kids than it takes to make them do it
===========================================================================
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 6 09:30:34 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Re: Change of Address > Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Content-Length: 854 > X-Lines: 23 > > growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > > > You don't need a key, no one would *want* to take it anyway, and most > > theives are to dumb to know how to drive it. > > I generally leave the 109 in low range fwd in hope that the > potential thief will have a marvelous high speed gataway should > they decide to borrow the beast. The other "safety" feature is the > starter switch. It is interesting to see people get in a Land > Rover, turn the key, then complain that it must be broken since > the starter doesn't turn. The fact the public is brainwashed into > a state where a vehicle must start when you turn the key tends to > confuse them when this doesn't happen. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 8 12:08:04 1994 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 11:48:36 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: Sparkplugs and FAQ Status: RO >hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > >> Also - does anybody by chance have the proper sparkplug # (that is the type >> or manufacturers #) for the 2.25l. > > Here are a few numbers... (from the next version of the FAQ) > > Spark plugs: Parts: SI SII & IIA SIII 6-cyl > from "B" from "D" > Land Rover RTC3569 RTC3570 RTC3571 > Champion N-5 N-5 N-9Y N-12Y N-5 > AC 44XL 44XL 42LXS 44XLS 44XL > Autolile 2616 2616 52 3205 2616 > - for radio interference supression, get "R" designator > > Rgds, > > Dixon > Well before I got this info Dixon I looked into the bottom of the seat box and found an old container of champion plugs. The number on them was N11YC. So I went to the parts store and try to get those - out - and instead ended up with Motorcraft AGS32C. I put them in and they work fine but I guess I do have the wrong plug. I did have NGK BP6ES before but as Marcus said "I would not advise the use of the NGK BP5ES/BP6ES sometimes recommended, as I have found them to be more prone to the dieseling problem mentioned earlier." So with the new plugs and a container of techron fuel cleaner I think I might have cured the dieseling blues. However - if the car is running fine should I change plugs? What exactly is the danger? Best - Greg PS - Has anyone checked the FAQ on triumph.cs.utah.edu to see if the upload was good. I am concerned that I didn't get the format right and the upload may be nothing but a long string of unformatted text. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Hiner (512) 471-7277 Computer Support hiner@mbs.telesys.utexas.edu Garrison Hall 318 University of Texas at Austin
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 8 16:33:02 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 08 Feb 94 14:15:06 PST."
<199402081915.OAA06498@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 94 14:22:28 PST
Status: RO
In message <199402081915.OAA06498@transfer.stratus.com> you write:
> ps Saw some footage of the mudslides and floods in LA today....many smaller
> trucks and pickups-isuzus, toyotas, nissans, 'merican rigs, and more all
> swallowed up by the muck......not a single rover, though.......so ben's
> must still be rollin'
I'm still rolling, but I haven't found any mud to play in yet. The
mudslides were in Altadena (two miles north of me) and Malibu (which is an
hour's drive away). If I did get stuck, do you think I would let a film
crew get me on tape? At least they'd see me winching out.
So I've been noticing. Someone really doesn't like Los Angeles. In
recent times we've had Riots, Fires, a major Earthquake, Floods (water and
mud) and Tornados. Yes the morning paper mentioned a water spout and "Cyclone
type winds" the touched down in Orange County.
Ben
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 8 14:05:26 1994
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 10:40:08 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com>
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Sparkplugs
X-Status:
Status: RO
I've been running NGK BP6ES plugs in my beast for 12k miles with no
problems. They seem to burn fine with no dieseling.
Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
1970 88" Series IIA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 8 14:07:20 1994 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 13:46:24 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com X-Status: Status: RO >would not advise the use of the NGK BP5ES/BP6ES sometimes recommended, as I have found them to be more prone to the dieseling problem mentioned earlier might this be due to the extended tip these plugs have? if the dieseling problem is caused by "hot coal remnants" of the combustion process, then it may be that these plugs, which have enlarged inner electrodes and hence a smaller free space between the insulator-bit-of-the-electrode and the inside of the plug, have a greater tendancy to trap the "hot coals". aye? rd/danige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 8 13:24:21 1994
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 14:15:06 -0500
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
X-Status:
Status: RO
**************************************************************************
KING O' DA ROAD
**************************************************************************
Yet another snowstorm has struck the northeast and southern new york is
looking lots like ontario once again (in fact, it has for the past month
and a half). Nigel has regained his crown as King o' da Road.....the left
lane now belongs to he and i.
rd
ps Saw some footage of the mudslides and floods in LA today....many smaller
trucks and pickups-isuzus, toyotas, nissans, 'merican rigs, and more all
swallowed up by the muck......not a single rover, though.......so ben's
must still be rollin'
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 10:12:57 1994
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 11:06:34 -0500
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
* * * * * *
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*****************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D|[A[D*[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C*[B
| |[A[D|[B|[A[D|[B |[| [[B[B
____XXXXXXXXX_____
|Oo | [AXX[| oO|[D[D[D[D[D[D)[D[D([DO[ [B[C[C[C[C[C
| |xxxxxxxx| |[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D(O) (O)[D[D[D[D[Dxx[B[B[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[A[A[A[A[A[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D*****************[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D [B[B[B[C[C[C[C***[C[C[C[D[D[D[D [D[D[D [D[D[D[D **********[B****[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[B[D[D[D[C[C[C[A || [B___[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D [B[B[B[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C
| |xxxxxxxx[A[D[D[D(O)[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D [Dx[C[Cx [B[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D(O)[ [C[C[C[D [B[B[C[C| |
[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[=================]
XX XX
[B[D[D[D______________[B[D X[D[D[D[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[C========o========[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[D*[B[B
ohhhhhh, I love this stuff...........[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[A[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D****************************************************************[B[B
(sure beats mudslides #@$@%#%#$@#^#^@&!^#%&!%#&$(*&$#&^@#%#^!($^^
%#&%&$#*!@%#*^&$%@#^%)%^($ &#$*^#*5(*$%(&$*^#(#)
> So I've been noticing. Someone really doesn't like Los Angeles. In
recent times we've had Riots, Fires, a major Earthquake, Floods (water and
mud) and Tornados. Yes the morning paper mentioned a water spout and "Cyclone
type winds" the touched down in Orange County.
move east, young man.
rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 11:17:02 1994 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 10:08:24 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover V. Hummer Status: RO Dixon, I think you made the best observation regarding the hummer. It is very big. The stats hint at that, but until you actually see one and drive it, the size is hard to grasp, no matter how many stat sheets you read. It is an open country vehicle, no doubt about it. There are place around Helena, that I have driven my Series I in, that there is no way a Hummer could have followed me. That was mostly not the grade or anything it was because of the spacing of the trees. I went between two trees that were only inches from each door. It was on a ridge and there was no way around the trees, you had to follow the road and go between. Plus I don't like the tire size and the fact that even with the rim ribs for the no flat feature, there is no way to carry a spare. It is possible to damage a tire in such a way that even that high tech feature wouldn't keep you running. You are also very correct about the huge transmission hump. It is very large. In the Gulf alot of the Cav hummers had GPS and extra tac radios mounted on the hump. Plus because of the high sill on the doors, the hummer is a pain in the ass to get in and out of. The drivers position is very cramped and the sterring wheel has a very high flat position. There is no floor boards to speak of. I found that getting in and out of the thing wearing a flak jacket, with my TA50 gear, two canteens, a .45 and an M-16 plus my cameras, a huge pain. As long as I'm rolling what else can I remember. The tops aren't worth shit. The hard top version used by the MPs was a little better but added alot of dead weight. Thr soft top does not cover the rear cargo space. The rear cargo space is not much bigger than the rear of an 88. You would expect more cargo space for such a large vehicle. Many of the guys in the Gulf used plywood to build a hard sheel that fit on the back. One positive comment: the ambulance version is really cool. It is big and roomy and the height doen't really make it top heavy for some reason. That would no matter what reduce the side hill ability. But it would make a great camper. I think it would be comprabale to a Dornmobile. Well that's my memories of driving and seeing how they were used in the Gulf. Roy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 11:34:32 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LA Bad/East Coast Good
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 09 Feb 94 11:06:34 PST."
<199402091606.LAA16528@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 09:28:37 PST
Status: RO
In message <199402091606.LAA16528@transfer.stratus.com> Russel Dushin writes:
>Ben Smith writes:
>
>> So I've been noticing. Someone really doesn't like Los Angeles. In
>> recent times we've had Riots, Fires, a major Earthquake, Floods (water and
>> mud) and Tornados. Yes the morning paper mentioned a water spout and
>> "Cyclone" type winds" the touched down in Orange County.
>
> move east, young man.
I am. As soon as I get my diploma June 10th, I'm packing all my
world possessions into my 88 and a uhaul trailer and heading back east.
Unfortunately, my destination is New Jersey and my parents' home, bu that
will change awhen I get myself an apartment.
I'll have to get a job and face the real world. (Then I'll dive
back into grad school in a year or two).
Ben
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 16:27:37 1994 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 94 17:16:31 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????? ???????????????? ???????? ???? ? sorry, but my low-budget attempt at ASCII graphics got botched- it was SUPPOSED to be a rover, hub-deep in snow (I know, I know- roof deep in ontario, but hub-deep is the best we can do in southern NY), in the midst of a snowstorm. If you care to, you may be able to adjust it into alignment-but yours, TerriAnn, got botched way worse than mine-so surely it isn't worth your time. Besides, the snow bits were the best of it, and they came through just fine...... .....all in fun, and for the amusement of those in warmer climates- the drizzling motherland, sun-soaked down-underside, fogged-in bay area-and-south-of, and the fire-scortched/earth shooken/rain-soaked- mud-slidin' LA basin. rd/nige (who wants me to buy him a tobaggon SOOOO bad) ps Ben-if you're a chemist I got a job for ya!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 00:05:27 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: how to subscribe? To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 23:02:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (todd mills) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 330 Status: RO I hope some kind soul can help me get on this list. I sent a "subscribe" command 24 hrs ago to land-rover-owner-request. I'm not too familiar with "request" lists: do I just wait for a listowner to manually add me? Or is an automatic feature not working very fast? TIA, and best wishes! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 05:03:08 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Rover/Hummer To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 10:55:12 GMT Status: RO Thanks for that description,Roy,it makes things *much* clearer. It also makes me wonder whether its maybe a bit silly to try to compare the vehicles.Rather like,in cavalry terms,comparing the horse and the camel. Could it be that the two may well be complementary,each having their own strengths and weaknesses.For instance,imagine a high speed,deep penetration,"skirmishing" force,of,say,four to six 90 "gunships",*relatively* lightly armed,but fast and highly manoeverable,with,say,two Hummers,one as a Command and Comms vehicle and the other somewhat more heavily armed for support/ strike power where needed.Something,at a guess rather like the WW11 Long Range Desert Group used,but faster and better armed. You have the properties of speed,good terrain covering,etc. You also have a collection of *very* low profile machinery,which, I beleive,was a highly prized property of the WW11 jeep in such circumstances. Having said this,I freely admit to absolutely *no* military experience at all,so I'm quite happy to be scoffed at on this one.It is probably either too ridiculous to be tried,or so obvious it already has been. On a different note,I have a sneaking suspicion that "reply" doesnt always work from here,so did you get the postage prices Dixon,and did you,Bill get the reply I sent about UK running costs? Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 21:03:56 1994 From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Snow storm ?? Whats snow. To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 9:27:38 CST Status: RO So thats what Nige looks like! Russell's ASCII graphic isnt too bad. Save it as a file and use "more" to read it. Sorry I dont know the non-unix equivalent or any of the technical reasons why this is so. Hey me and my rover arent talking at the moment! I tried to do the right thing last night and tighten some of the tow mount securing bolts that got damaged rescuing a Tojo many years ago. Got everything tight all right, but It wouldnt let go of the ring spanner. Got jammed underneath a lip on the chassis, had to partially drop the fuel tank and undo the bolts I had just tightened to retreive it. Totally uncalled for I feel. What worries me is that when I repeated the procedure with an English made rather than Australian spanner there was no problem. Is it possible that our Rovers are becoming pedantic over little things following the BMW take over???? daryl
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 9 19:49:27 1994 From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Snow storm take 2 To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 9:31:47 CST Status: RO hi apart from "more" you can also use "cat" or its equivalent. dag's
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 11:06:14 1994 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 10:24:28 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >Is it possible that our Rovers are becoming pedantic over little things following the BMW take over???? very. Nigel has been hassling me on these cold winter mornings....doesn't wanna start, doesn't wanna run when he does. This a.m. once started, he let out a horrendous roar (the throttle linkage got stuck) as if to say-"take the beemer, go ahead-make my day". A can of WD40 (that needed to be warmed up in order to squirt) was required to remove the old grease (that worked just fine in warmer weather, but got sluggish in the cold)....but surely it will need attention again (since WD has such a limited lifespan). Aside from the linkage, I do believe I gots some fuel delivery problems- a similarly sluggish feeling fuel pump lever makes me suspect it may be time for a cleaning, and a rebuild kit is in hand (how cold do you canooks work in??), along with a fresh fuel filter......but it could be time to dig into my rochester..... rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 14:08:58 1994
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: ASCII Art
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 12:00:12 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
I was working late last night and during a break I couldn't fiddling with
Henry Stevens' Land Rover ASCII art.
,------,-------,
| | |
|---{%%%%%%}---|
@==============@
|(@) [####] (@)|
| o [####] o |
================
{%} {%}
{%} {%}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 17:37:27 1994 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 18:29:23 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >By all means give Nigel that Rochester. He's got it already.....it may be time for a cleaning, however..... so yours is on strike too, aye? by any chance, are rovers unionized? surely they must be in favor with the labor party......... rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 19:59:54 1994
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 20:48:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Terry Gilbert <tgilbert@husc.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: ASCII Art
To: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>,
Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9402102000.AA11299@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On Thu, 10 Feb 1994, Benjamin Smith wrote:
>
> I was working late last night and during a break I couldn't fiddling with
> Henry Stevens' Land Rover ASCII art.
>
> ,------,-------,
> | | |
> |---{%%%%%%}---|
> @==============@
> |(@) [####] (@)|
> | o [####] o |
> ================
> {%} {%}
> {%} {%}
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> -Benjamin Smith
> ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
> 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
>
I like it. As I've mentioned, I don't yet have a "model" from which to
render art, so appreciate the changes for accuracy's sake. Now, is there
someone willing to tackle ASCII art for a Forward Control? Or, how about
modifying this one further to get a Series One?
--- Henry "kickin' ASCII in Boston"
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 10 20:05:39 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: thanks from the impatient one To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 18:59:47 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9402101624.E135192-0100000@moose.uvm.edu> from "Jan Hilborn" at Feb 10, 94 04:10:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 243 Status: RO Thanks to Greg, Jan and William for their kind responses to my subscription inquiry. I've seen my first message. Seems I was just a bit impatient! Glad to be here! T. F. Mills University of Denver Library tomills@du.edu
From ccray Fri Feb 11 09:09:24 1994 Subject: Lulu and owner high on speed... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:09:24 -0600 (CST) Cc: ccstm@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Steve Meyer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2195 Status: RO I guess I hadn't realized how bad things had gotten. I know the cars were backing up behind me as I drove across town. And the hill I used to make easily in third, I lugged up cause it was too hard to double-declutch into second. Lulu spent last night in a nice, warm garage. The list I had given the mechanic was so long, it extended into the second day. Tuneup -- points, plugs, condensor, timing; compression check (120,120,100,100); valve adjustment; plus lots of other things including fixing a leaky valve cover gasket. Oh, and a new exhaust pipe -- the old one was leaking some. Well, let me tell you. Lulu fired right up. It was so-o-o-o quiet with the new exhaust pipe. I drove off and it was so exhilarating -- the engine had much more torque and I was able to rev it up a little higher without concern (was that because of the new exhaust pipe?). The only noise was the whine of gears meshing thru EP90. Mechanic said I should put a couple of cans of additive into the gas tank and "drive the piss" out of her -- an additive that would help to burn off carbon that likely was causing the low compression on 3 and 4. He said the spark plugs looked like maybe some warn valve guides -- yes, there is a puff of smoke when I start her up after setting. Nothing done with the solex carburator -- I guess thats next. All in all, I am very pleased. Now I know I will be chastized by you chinooks, but it was cold here too (-18c) and I just didn't feel like doing mechanical work myself. Besides, the mechanic did it all at once while I would have stretched it out over 2 months. This weekend, it is supposed to warm up -- I plan to wash down the engine compartment and look for further oil leaks. I think I have them all now. Lulu normally sleeps in the street, maybe I can let her sleep in the driveway. Defender 90, who needs 'em. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 11 09:25:21 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Lulu and owner high on speed... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:09:24 -0600 (CST) Cc: ccstm@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Steve Meyer) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2194 Status: RO I guess I hadn't realized how bad things had gotten. I know the cars were backing up behind me as I drove across town. And the hill I used to make easily in third, I lugged up cause it was too hard to double-declutch into second. Lulu spent last night in a nice, warm garage. The list I had given the mechanic was so long, it extended into the second day. Tuneup -- points, plugs, condensor, timing; compression check (120,120,100,100); valve adjustment; plus lots of other things including fixing a leaky valve cover gasket. Oh, and a new exhaust pipe -- the old one was leaking some. Well, let me tell you. Lulu fired right up. It was so-o-o-o quiet with the new exhaust pipe. I drove off and it was so exhilarating -- the engine had much more torque and I was able to rev it up a little higher without concern (was that because of the new exhaust pipe?). The only noise was the whine of gears meshing thru EP90. Mechanic said I should put a couple of cans of additive into the gas tank and "drive the piss" out of her -- an additive that would help to burn off carbon that likely was causing the low compression on 3 and 4. He said the spark plugs looked like maybe some warn valve guides -- yes, there is a puff of smoke when I start her up after setting. Nothing done with the solex carburator -- I guess thats next. All in all, I am very pleased. Now I know I will be chastized by you chinooks, but it was cold here too (-18c) and I just didn't feel like doing mechanical work myself. Besides, the mechanic did it all at once while I would have stretched it out over 2 months. This weekend, it is supposed to warm up -- I plan to wash down the engine compartment and look for further oil leaks. I think I have them all now. Lulu normally sleeps in the street, maybe I can let her sleep in the driveway. Defender 90, who needs 'em. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 11 12:16:00 1994
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 12:49:45 -0500
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
*HEY! IT'S SNOWING AGAIN!* * *
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|Oo |{O}xx{O}| oO| * * * *
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ps Ben-get those headlights off tha wings!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 11 13:09:39 1994 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 13:59:52 -0500 From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO ohhhh....a whole foot! now we are getting somewhere. On my way into work today I had the pleasure-which I must now convey to you-of badly bruising the ego of one Chevy Blazer. He was in the "sorta plowed" lane, doing about 48 mph.....THINKIN' he was King of the Road.....passing a host of 2WD's with his flashers on. Nigel (who has no flashers) got impatient with the blinking lights, and moved briskly by at 55+, shifting into overdrive as he edged his nose afront, and left the flashy blazer and his occupants to wallow in the cloud of white that lifted from the depths of the left lane. So sorry, guy.....SEE YA! rd/Sir Nigel
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 13 00:46:56 1994 From: STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 01:41:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the Land Rover "Experience" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@transfer.stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello, Please allow me to introduce myself. I am 29 years old, work for the local fire dept., and have been a shadow on your list for the last month. I had a very rusty 79Jeep Cherokee (105,000+) which I happily replaced with a used 1987 Range Rover about four years ago. (no regrets). I'm still watching for that special Land Rover diesel to cross my path. With your help, I might figure out which one to hold out for. Anyway, I called Land Rover in Solihul and got myself scheduled to attend "The Land Rover Experience" for two days this April whicle on vacation. The first day they call INTRODUCTION, the second day ADVANCED. Intro will be at Solihul in a Range Rover diesel. The second day will be at Eastnor (sp?) Castle in a Defender 90 diesel. Has anyone else ever done this? What should I expect? (I've never had a 4x4 class before). I am combining this with one week on a narrow canal boat, on the Llangollen/Trent & Mersey Canal, with five other U.S. friends. Would you do this for your vacation? Thanks, Andrew Steele Dayton, Ohio ad158@dayton.wright.edu or steele@chaos.antioch.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 13 02:36:41 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Land Rover Experience and canals To: STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 01:27:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01H8TI5PXYJM000RVA@antioc.antioch.edu> from "STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu" at Feb 13, 94 01:41:04 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 635 Status: RO Eastnor/Solihull and a canal trip? > Would you do this for your vacation? Well, Andrew, I can't think of too many things higher on my list -- except perhaps trying to locate the Land Rovers that figured prominently in my childhood. The first one I ever drove (when I was ten) was in Merseyside. I've been a shadow or lurker on this list for only a couple of days. I'll try to get around to introducing myself and/or my Rover one of these days. But I must say I'm delighted to discover this lro group. (Could someone tell me how long it has been around?) T. F. Mills University of Denver Library tomills@du.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 13 11:25:56 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Repost of lost message (at least here)
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 10:46:50 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Subject: US markets for used rovers
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 23:13:07 -0500
jory@mit.edu writes:
> Random question for stateside rover-types:
Awww... :-)
> where would people say you can get the best price for a restored (or
> completely rebuilt) land rover? does the wheelbase change this.
In Canada. In the USA, proably the NorthEast or Northwest portions
of your country where there is some price competition. Even better
would be in the UK where labour is cheap. Add, under, a thousand
Canadian to the price to get it delivered over here.
Yes, 109's cost more as they are much rarer.
However, define "restored". Given some thought, I'd say that every
SWB Land Rover should cost approximately $8,000 Canadian at most.
Working it out is fairly easy...
One dead Land Rover: $300 - 500
One new Frame: $1,000
*Lots* of new parts: $4,500 - $5,000 (at the very most)
Shipping of above: $600 at most (by sea)
Paint: $1,000 (maybe)
The above adds up to some $8,000 Canadian. You supply the labour
(they are really just oversized mechano sets) and the space (two to
three times the foot print of your Land Rover, or an entire double
car garage), some beer for the heavy lifting bits which require
some gullable friends, and you have a completely rebuilt Land
Rover. If you are really keen, have a couple of friends, the
tools, you can have it all done in three weeks, working after work
and all weekend steady.
Now, you want to *pay* someone to do this? Add some more cash to
the pile, but you still don't hit the US prices for the completely
restored vehicles, discounting profit margins.
My conclusion? If I am a lazy sob and want to know nothing about
my vehicle, thus be dependent on others to keep it going, I'll pay
approx. $8,000 for a restored Land Rover.
Do I want a beautifully restored, pristine Land Rover? Not really.
There are a couple in the club. The owners are gentle enough with
the thing on the grass, and would never ever dream of putting it
down the club trail in Almonte. Why would I want something that I
can't use for the purpose for which it was built? The kids who won
the peoples choice award for Land Rovers at Stowe had a very nice
SWB. Yet they spoke in awe about a Land Rover they saw that went
into *water* up to the hubs one day earlier in the summer. We we
showed them the pictures from one of our mud run sessions they were
speechless... (BTW, If I sacn some of these photos into .GIFs,
uuencoded them could someone get them onto triumph.cs.utah.edu
where some people might like to see them?)
> example, in Boston, I often see ads with people selling used rovers that
> have been completely done over (often not new frame, but sometimes yes) for
> 10-20K$US (yes, i actually saw an ad for one at the higher of those
> prices)... of course, i don't know what price they sold at, but it gives an
> idea of the market...
Not only have I seen them at that price, but they sell near those
prices. The restoration Series III that RN was playing with sold
in September-ish for US$19K. Price is driven by availablity and
the rest of the junk we learned in Economics 101.
> random vehicles (usual frame problems, misc other problems but often cited
> as being mechanically dependable, with some new parts) tend to be offered
> at anywhere between 2500-8000$US.
Mechanically dependable means little. The frame is what really
matters.
> p.s. i've been told that canadians have a different standard for things
> like "runs well" or "rust free" or "excelleny/good condition" and that i
> should therefore take lower canadian rover prices with a grain of salt...
> anyone have perspectives on this bit of lore?
Are prices are cheaper because we have a lot of them. I can't
speak for the rest of Canada (though BC has a lot of LRs too) but
when you consider there may be a dozen Land Rovers in, say Iowa, at
most and the Ottawa Valley Land Rover club which doesn't have every
Land Rover owner as a member can account for 120+ Land Rovers...
You get the idea. Granted, they don't grow on trees, and if you
are not involved with someone who knows about Land Rovers you will
have a tough time finding one, and when you do, it will probably
cost you more than it should. I'd say the US$19k vehicle would
sell for under Cdn$10k up here. If you need a second opinion, call
Charlie at RN and ask him about OVLR and our Land Rovers and costs.
Generally our Land Rovers are in poorer condition because of the
environment. They were used off road, on salty roads in the
winter, and were well abused. Many have been brought back up to
spec, but they are generally more uncommon to see for sale.
There is no such thing as rust free unless it has been restored,
and excellent/good condition means different things to different
people. The SWB I am in the process of purchasing can be
considered rust-free as we rebuilt the thing over three weeks last
summer. The frame is like new, the bulkhead repaired, but the body
a bit beaten. We took the thing down to the last bolt, sand
blasting and painting as it went back together. At $2,000 Cdn
($1,400 US approx.) is is a good deal becuase it would have cost me
that much to rebuild the $25 SWB I purchased in the late
Summer/Fall. Still, this will cost a bit more, as I am going to
replace the springs in the next big parts order (at about 60 - 70$
apiece) and do a couple of other minor repairs to it.) In the US,
I could probably get about $8k for it in its current shape.
> learning experience... and if you spread the cost of parts and (mostly my)
> labor over the 6 years, well... i never was good at math, so i'll leave
> that calculation undone.
The wife reads this mailing list? :-) If I was married, I'd
probably have been killed by now... <grin>
Rgds,
Dixon "I've rambled for 120 lines now, some are probably bored by now"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 04:07:01 1994
To: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: It takes time?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 21:37:27 -0500
In-Reply-To: <199402101524.KAA05200@transfer.stratus.com>
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com> writes:
> Aside from the linkage, I do believe I gots some fuel delivery problems-
> a similarly sluggish feeling fuel pump lever makes me suspect it may be
> time for a cleaning, and a rebuild kit is in hand (how cold do you canooks
> work in??), along with a fresh fuel filter......but it could be time to
> dig into my rochester.....
How do us Canucks do it? Well, if you have had the fuel delivery
problems that I had in the Spring you would discover that it takes
under three minutes to remove a fuel pump, or about five if it is
dark out and you don't have a light handy. The line from the tank
requires a 11/16" spanner to detach, a screwdrive will do the clamp
on the other side, and a 1/2" socket; short extension, and racket
will undo the two nuts holding the pump to the block.
The cold gives us extra incentive to work faster before the fingers
get too numb to be useful. Of course we have the garage at
George's to work in and we keep the wood stove well stoked.
Despite the outside cold, the 109 pick-up only awaits the
installation of the rebuilt engine (the rings for this task arrived
from the UK in a multitude of little parts) as we have completed
everything else. The Lotus-Seven (which wasted good working space
since we were not allowed to play with it) is gone after we pulled
it out and pulled the engine for someone else to rebuild.
Right now there is little Land-Rover rebuilding going on as we have
basically gotten everything done possible without supplies of new
parts, or more really dead donor Land Rovers (if there is such a
thing). More will get done in the future of course... :-) There
are the three 80"s, two 86's, a '69 88, and a newly discovered 109
pick-up to acquire for future fun... :-) :-)
Rgds,
Dixon "enjoying the -12c respite from the real cold"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 04:07:04 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: ASCII Art
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 1994 22:19:50 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Terry Gilbert <tgilbert@husc.harvard.edu> writes:
> I like it. As I've mentioned, I don't yet have a "model" from which to
> render art, so appreciate the changes for accuracy's sake. Now, is there
> someone willing to tackle ASCII art for a Forward Control? Or, how about
> modifying this one further to get a Series One?
Doing an early Series I would require overprinting a # with a O,
possible with a printer, but unfortunately not with out screens.
A later Series I would require a way to denote the grill
surrounding the headlamps. If one wants to get a bit fancier with
the existing rendation, three characters, mabe using an underline
on the roof to denote the three roof ridges might be in order.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 04:06:51 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: the Land Rover "Experience" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:58:24 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >Anyway, I called Land Rover in Solihul and got myself scheduled to attend "The>Land Rover Experience" for two days this April whicle on vacation. The first>day they call INTRODUCTION, the second day ADVANCED. Intro will be at Solihul>in a Range Rover diesel. The second day will be at Eastnor (sp?) Castle in a>Defender 90 diesel. >Has anyone else ever done this? What should I expect? (I've never had a 4x4 >class before). I am combining this with one week on a narrow canal boat, on >the Llangollen/Trent & Mersey Canal, with five other U.S. friends. A couple of freinds went on this in preparation for a geological expedition round Iceland. Apparantly it's a gripper, but it really rejigs your view of what's possible in 4wds >Would you do this for your vacation? Combining it with a while to recover on the canals sounds pretty good to me......
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 04:33:03 1994 Subject: Re: the Land Rover "Experience" To: STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:17:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <01H8TI5PXYJM000RVA@antioc.antioch.edu> from "STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu" at Feb 13, 94 01:41:04 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3703 Status: RO STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu writes: > > Hello, Hi there, [...] > Anyway, I called Land Rover in Solihul and got myself scheduled to attend "The > Land Rover Experience" for two days this April whicle on vacation. The first > day they call INTRODUCTION, the second day ADVANCED. Intro will be at Solihul > in a Range Rover diesel. The second day will be at Eastnor (sp?) Castle in a > Defender 90 diesel. I did the introduction a couple of years ago, and keep getting badgered into going the advanced every time I run into one of the instructors, but unfortunately time isn't on my side, and as you no doubt know these courses are booked up months in advance. The format of the "Experience" tend to depend on group your with. For the introduction it is usual for 4 students to be in one vehicle with an instructor, all taking it in terns to drive. The advanced course is two students to one vehicle/instructor. The day started with coffee and a video or two, plus a short chat with all instructors and students to gether, then it was off to play. The group I was with, was unusual in that we swapped vehicles 3 times during the day. Normally you would book the course and specify the vehicle then stick to it. The course I did was booked for a V-8 Manual Range Rover, however two of the students had decided to book a place with the V-8 Manual rather than wait several months for a place with the vehicle they required - one wanted a 2.5 VM diesel Range Rover, the other an Auto Range Rover. So during the day we tried all 3. BTW the Auto was straight off the production line, (couldn't even say it had delivery mileage :-) but I did enjoy being the first person to get it dirty. Anyway back to the day, V-8 manual first, and a few circuits of the road test track, then a play in one of the gravel car parks with its ABS (since that was a new feature at the time), then it was off to the Jungle. The Jungle is a purpose designed off road test track, which includes almost every consevable off road obstacle, slopes, side slopes, 3rd world roads, rail way tracks, deep water, plenty of mud and a stair case. Keep your eyes open for the foxes that live their while you go around, I was surprised at how close they will let you drive to them. The day was spent with each driver attempting all the obstacles they wanted to, and as many times as required until they felt comfortable with them. Lunch was taken with all the students and instructors together in the staff canteen, then followed by a drive around the accessable areas of the plant including a peep at Special Vehicles and the Discovery "line". I don't want to bore every one to much, so I will stop now, but feel free to mail me with an further questions. Also if you are going to be at a loose end while you're in Solihull, let me know and we can try and get together for a drink. > Has anyone else ever done this? What should I expect? (I've never had a 4x4 > class before). I am combining this with one week on a narrow canal boat, on > the Llangollen/Trent & Mersey Canal, with five other U.S. friends. Have been on a narrow boat on the Trent, and walked quite a lot of the Llangollen Canal tow path (hope you like heights :-)) > Would you do this for your vacation? > > Thanks, > Andrew Steele > Dayton, Ohio ad158@dayton.wright.edu or steele@chaos.antioch.edu > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From ccray Mon Feb 14 09:10:10 1994 Subject: Yet another LRO to add to the list... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:10:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: jhumphre@creek.astate.edu (Kevin Humphrey) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1193 Status: RO Please Add my LR buddy to the mailing list. His love of Land Rovers goes back several years. I will let him introduce himself to the list: John Kevin Humphrey jhumphre@creek.astate.edu A story: A cream-puff land rover in town was wrecked (totaled) by the owner's 16 year old son. He didn't have ability to store/fix it as he lived in an apartment. He called Kevin. It took a couple of hours, but he also called me. I went to look at it and was excited. I wanted to call Kevin to see if we could go shares. When I finally got hold of Kevin, he had already bought it for $450. What I thought would be a good parts car, he rebuilt into a daily driver. Since it had spent several years in Ethiopia and several years in a garage, it was in excellent shape. It looks great and every time I see it, I say "that could have been mine..." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 09:17:19 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Yet another LRO to add to the list... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:10:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: jhumphre@creek.astate.edu (Kevin Humphrey) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1192 Status: RO Please Add my LR buddy to the mailing list. His love of Land Rovers goes back several years. I will let him introduce himself to the list: John Kevin Humphrey jhumphre@creek.astate.edu A story: A cream-puff land rover in town was wrecked (totaled) by the owner's 16 year old son. He didn't have ability to store/fix it as he lived in an apartment. He called Kevin. It took a couple of hours, but he also called me. I went to look at it and was excited. I wanted to call Kevin to see if we could go shares. When I finally got hold of Kevin, he had already bought it for $450. What I thought would be a good parts car, he rebuilt into a daily driver. Since it had spent several years in Ethiopia and several years in a garage, it was in excellent shape. It looks great and every time I see it, I say "that could have been mine..." ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 09:56:54 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills)
Cc: STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu, lro@stratus.com,
caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Land Rover Experience and canals
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 13 Feb 94 01:27:29 MST."
<9402130827.AA19919@diana.cair.du.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 10:48:06 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Eastnor/Solihull and a canal trip?
Eastnor (from what I've read) is supposed to be the school to go to...
> (Could someone tell me how long it has been around?)
Since June 1990
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 11:41:01 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>
Cc: STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list)
Subject: Re: the Land Rover "Experience" on ice: a RR w/ ABS & TC
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 Feb 94 10:17:01 GMT."
<9402141017.aa02834@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:28:44 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> Anyway back to the day, V-8 manual first, and a few circuits of the
> road test track, then a play in one of the gravel car parks with its
> ABS (since that was a new feature at the time), then it was off to
> the Jungle.
Well, RRNA (oh, ok, LRNA now) hasn't seen fit to import Range Rovers with
manuals, but after they announced ABS & TC, I decided it was time to take
a testdrive. So I had talked to the guy and told him I'd call him back in
a week or two, and then waited for the next decent snow storm. And we
got a number of inches, and they hadn't cleared the side roads real well,
so I called up and visted Foreign Motors West.
He gave me the keys and I was off, their 'normal' test drive is about the
block, down around to Rt. 9 and back, not real exciting.. but I turned onto
the side roads, check out the turning radious and how small a space I could
reverse direction in. Then I found the shady, ice packed side roads and
tried out the ABS and TC. I could do no wrong. Stomp on either pedal and
point the steering wheel and the RR would 'just do it !'. Could barely
get a hint that the rear wheels wanted to wander, but they didn`t.
Wish I could have borrowed one for the BMSC Ice Trials this weekend. Even
without studded snows, I averaged 38mph on the 1.5 mile circuit laid out
on Lake Onota in Pittsfield, [giving me second place for the front engine
rear-drive category with the Merkur/Sierra XR4Ti]. And with the expansion
joints on the lake ice, I certainly wished I had more ground clearance...
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 12:54:42 1994 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 10:43:55 PST From: Vance Chin <vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: New used parts supplier? California smog? Status: RO I'm in the process of rebuilding my Series III 88" landrover which I just bought. The only problem is the engine block and head had cracks that were repaired at one time. In looking for a better block and head I ran across this fellow that had pretty good prices for both 5 and 3 main bearing blocks in various stages, plus other parts as well. I have not bought anything from him yet so I was interested if any of you had any dealings with him. His name is Creed Evans and is located in Montana (406-965-3266). His price for a 5 main with a good block and a so so head is $700 - $1000. Since they are from England and California has no leaded fuel anymore I will have to rebuild the head anyway. Also on this note does anyone know of any smog problems pertaining to different engines in California? Vance Chin Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine :-( vance@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 13:49:48 1994
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Rangey stuff
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 19:50:42 GMT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
Hi Folks,
I havn't posted much since I swapped my Lightweight for a
Rangey. A combination of being busy and noting that most postings are
relevant mostly to leaf-springers I guess.
Just for interest then I've got the engine pretty much sorted after a
carb clean and distributor overhaul. I was pretty pleased with it
this last weekend as I did 400 miles on the Motorway at 70mph and got
~20mpg. I must have got the timing and mixtures pretty much spot-on.
The ride doesn't bear comparison to the bumpy old SIII, but then I
liked that for other reasons. Must get the rear bushes done to stop
the tail wagging in crosswinds tho'.
It has been off road of course. Main differences are the softer
springs and massive axle articulation, and the larger body size. It's
extremely capable and fast off road.
On snow without diff-lock it's totally wild - with diff lock it's rock
steady. Practised this morning in our street, neighbours already
think I'm nuts so didn't say much... To those of you with the vacuum
diff lock: Does it disengage instantly, or do you have to drive a
little way? I have to drive a little and am wondering if this
indicates I have a problem starting......?
--
Best Regards,
Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 17:03:29 1994
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:56:06 -0500
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Dixon wrote:
>How do us Canucks do it? Well, if you have had the fuel delivery
>problems that I had in the Spring you would discover that it takes
>under three minutes to remove a fuel pump, or about five if.....
Gheeze, if my pump really is my only problem perhaps I should get to it-the
rebuild kit is just collecting dust, anyway. My fear, however, is that the
Rochester needs a good cleaning as well, and the thought of evaporative
cooling of spilled fuel on the hands ain't helping me to get on it.
>Of course we have the garage at
George's to work in and we keep the wood stove well stoked.
Hey, remember? I don't have one of these. All I got is frozen manure to
work in......I'd have to do the rebuilding in the back of the '88 so as to
stay out of the wind.
>-12C
C??? all this time I thought you were quoting the REAL temperature! That's
summer weather, man! %|
But seriously, Nigel does seem to have a bit of trouble getting going after
a really cold night.......like -10F or worse. Never seems to have a problem
on moderately cold ones, and starts right up if it's been over 10F. When he
does pester me, he spits, sputters, runs on three, etc, until his throat
clears....then he's just fine.
If I wait the winter out.......shouldn't say that.
rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 19:29:07 1994 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:06:40 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu Subject: Re: New used parts supplier? California smog? Status: RO Vance, If you put in a later engine , just put on all the smog stuff from your old engine and take it in and get it smogged. No one will check the SN of the engine to see if it matches the chassis SN. The nice guy at the smog place will never have seen a Landy before and probably will never see another. Like your Mom always told you, "If you don't think you will like the answer, don't ask the question." Regards, Bill G.
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 10:50:51 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: New used parts supplier? California smog? > Content-Length: 949 > X-Lines: 22 > > Also > on this note does anyone know of any smog problems pertaining to different > engines in California? > > > > > Vance Chin > Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine :-( > vance@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com > >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 19:17:52 1994 X-Msmail-Message-Id: 497DB37F X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 497DB37F From: Erik Hokanson <erikh@microsoft.com> To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:01:25 PST Subject: land rover Cummins drivetrain conversion Status: RO Has anyone heard of LR powerplant conversions to Cummins B-series 5.9 litre diesel? I suspect that the added weight and block length (big I-6 configuration) are potential big problems. Also, upgrading the standard drivetrain to handle the B-series power output [varies from B5.9-160 (160-175 hp / 400lb-ft) to B5.9-230(230hp / 605lb-ft)] may be heroic, and not worth the work. Or maybe not--how overdesigned / robust are LR diffs and axles? I would probably use the std. pre-1994 Getrag 5speed box / Cummins combo, so gearbox is not as much of a concern. If no one knows of the conversion personally, are there any service centres that might be familiar with such conversions? Please reply to me directly, as I am not on the alias yet. thanks, erik erikh@microsoft.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 19:44:19 1994 X-Msmail-Message-Id: 394AC56E X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 394AC56E From: Mike Dryfoos <mikedr@microsoft.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:30:44 PST Subject: Re: the Land Rover "Experience" Status: RO Dare I ask, what does this adventure cost? I hope it is a little more reasonable than LRNA's weeklong course in Colorado, which costs about 10% of the price of a new Range Rover, or about the same (for one person only) as the three week trip to India my wife and I took in '91. While we're on the subject, does anyone have any info or experiences they'd like to share on 4WD driving course of this nature? What's good, what's not, what to expect? Anyone know of such courses offered in the Pacific Northwest? Thanks. ---------- | From: Richard Jones <netmail!rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> | STEELE@antioc.antioch.edu writes: | > | > Hello, | | Hi there, | | [...] | | > Anyway, I called Land Rover in Solihul and got myself scheduled to attend "The | > Land Rover Experience" for two days this April whicle on vacation. The first | > day they call INTRODUCTION, the second day ADVANCED. Intro will be at Solihul | > in a Range Rover diesel. The second day will be at Eastnor (sp?) Castle in a | > Defender 90 diesel. |
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 22:18:37 1994
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 23:11:05 -0500
From: ad158@dayton.wright.edu (Andrew Steele)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover Experience $$$
Status: RO
Mike,
The cost (in Sterling) is:
Intro 110
Advanced 220
So I think it will be like 330 + VAT (17.5%?????) = aprox 388
Exchange rate @ aprox 1.5 so it should end up costing $580 to 600.
Only problem is they don't take credit cards, so I've got to find some way to
get a check in Sterling to them in the next day or two.
Hope this helps.
What about putting one of the 4cyl cummings diesels into a Range Rover. A
while back, I was quoted aprox $4,800 for a factory rebuilt engine. Combine
this with a search for a Rover w/o working engine (my dealer had one last year
that had to be replaced/rebuilt after overheating). Any thoughts?
Andrew.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 02:26:30 1994
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: California smog and me
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:06:40 PST."
<9402142006.AA16178@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 00:17:27 PST
Status: RO
Bill G. writes:
> If you put in a later engine , just put on all the smog stuff from your old
> engine and take it in and get it smogged. No one will check the SN of the
> engine to see if it matches the chassis SN. The nice guy at the smog place
> will never have seen a Landy before and probably will never see another.
I went for the illegal solution to the smog problem. Officially, I
am still a resident of NJ. The Land Rover is registered in my father's name
in NJ. Legally, I cannot register it in California, since it is not my car.
I have the Rover out of California every 2 to 3 months and I get it inspected in
NJ yearly (well I missed this summer, but I got the last two). So in the
end I don't get it smog checked. But somehow it manages to pass NJ emmisions.
Besides the last time we told the insurance company that I had a car
in LA (a 1980 Datsun 510) it was $2700 extra for a single, under 25 male in LA,
on a college campus and not parked in a garage. So the car is "in" New Jersey.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 02:34:38 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Parts and a Telescope Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 00:25:36 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO Awhile back I mentioned that I was trying to turn my dead leaf springs into a crossbow. Well, that project died. Anyway, I work in Caltech Submillimeter Astronomy group and am helping to develop a cryogenic instrument to go on the telescope in Hawaii. So my boss wanted me to make some handles to make carrying the dewar arounsd a little easier. So I looked at the screw spacing and thought that the spacing looked familiar. The next day I brought in the inner door handle from my SIII and sure enough the spacing ofd the holes was close enough. So tomorrow, I'm calling Rover's North and ordering 4 door handles. So the telescope will be at least part Rover. Now if I could only convince them to stop buying Izuzu Troopers (and killing them every few years) and buying Defenders 110s.... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 04:00:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Vacuum diff lock Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:52:46 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >> To those of you with the vacuum >> diff lock: Does it disengage instantly, or do you have to drive a >> little way? I have to drive a little and am wondering if this >> indicates I have a problem starting......? >My diff lock is the same, I dont think there is any problem, just needs to >unwind the transmission a bit before the locking dog can move out of >engagement. The only time it disengages instantly is when I am stationary >and playing with it :-) It depends on the traction, and whther you are moving. In slippery stuff, as soon as you move it will engage/disengage. On dry tarmac, it'll take forever...... Mine wont do anything when I'm stationary. Incidentally, having been brought up on an Escort Mark2, when its icy, I prefer to steer with the back. The 90 refuses to do this point blank, unless I use the difflock, then I can break the back away quite nicely. Really freaks folk to see this Landrover coming round corners sideways.....
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 04:32:37 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:25:48 +0000
To: lro@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:25:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Vacuum diff lock
Priority: normal
Status: RO
> Incidentally, having been brought up on an Escort Mark2, when its icy, I
> prefer to steer with the back. The 90 refuses to do this point blank, unless
> I use the difflock, then I can break the back away quite nicely. Really
freaks
> folk to see this Landrover coming round corners sideways.....
I know a bit about some of the roads around Aberdeen -- the
out-of-town roads are old dirt tracks which have been metalled and then
labled as main roads!
Life was fraught enough with nutters barrelling along these roads in
escorts & astras & golfs -- The thought of a '90 sliding round some of these
single track corners at 60mph scares the sh*t out of me!
:-)
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. -- TeriAnn.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 04:44:19 1994 Subject: Re: Rangey stuff To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:31:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9402141950.AA12533@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at Feb 14, 94 07:50:42 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1447 Status: RO Steve Methley writes: > > Hi Folks, [...] Hi > On snow without diff-lock it's totally wild - with diff lock it's rock > steady. Practised this morning in our street, neighbours already > think I'm nuts so didn't say much... To those of you with the vacuum > diff lock: Does it disengage instantly, or do you have to drive a > little way? I have to drive a little and am wondering if this > indicates I have a problem starting......? Its fairly common, usually indicates a lack of use. Sometimes its the result of a poor vacuum, may be worth checking the pipes if you get the opportunity. Next time it stick try reversing a little way (a few feet is usually enough) with a slight left lock. Since the "Land Rover Experience" has been discussed over the last few days. One of the suggestions made by the instructor was USE the diff lock (and low range) at every opportunity. For example if you pull into a grass field being used as a car park - lock the diff, not because you need it, but because if you don't use it regualry it won't work when you do need it. > -- > > Best Regards, > Steve. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 18:52:03 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Vacuum diff lock
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 9:13:46 CST
In-Reply-To: <9402141950.AA12533@methley2.hpl.hp.com>; from "Steve Methley" at Feb 14, 94 07:50:42 pm
Status: RO
Steve Methley writes
> To those of you with the vacuum
> diff lock: Does it disengage instantly, or do you have to drive a
> little way? I have to drive a little and am wondering if this
> indicates I have a problem starting......?
My diff lock is the same, I dont think there is any problem, just needs to
unwind the transmission a bit before the locking dog can move out of
engagement. The only time it disengages instantly is when I am stationary
and playing with it :-)
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 370,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 20:26:22 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: land rover Cummins drivetrain conversion
To: erikh@microsoft.com (Erik Hokanson)
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:46:02 CST
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9402150104.AA16463@netmail2.microsoft.com>; from "Erik Hokanson" at Feb 14, 94 05:01:25 pm
Status: RO
Erik Hokanson
> I suspect that the added weight and block length (big I-6
> configuration) are potential big problems.
Whilst not familiar with the engines you mention I suspect that the answer is
Yes Big problems. It is difficult enough to fit a passenger car based inline
6cyl petrol in a standard landrover. When rover went to the 3.5 V8 they
moved the radiator forward to the front of the guards.
>
> Also, upgrading the standard drivetrain to handle the B-series power
> output [varies from B5.9-160 (160-175 hp / 400lb-ft) to B5.9-230(230hp
> / 605lb-ft)] may be heroic, and not worth the work. Or maybe not--how
> overdesigned / robust are LR diffs and axles? I would probably use the
> std. pre-1994 Getrag 5speed box / Cummins combo, so gearbox is not as
> much of a concern.
Under designed would be more like it for the "Rover" type diff found in 88's
and most IIa 109's. You could probably build a picket fence from the busted
axles, and line the top with crown wheels with 400lb ft torque. That is if
you could get the power out of the transfer. The rover type diff is
notoriously weak, I busted heaps of axles and 3 diffs on my old 66' before
switching to a salisbury. Powerplant was a tired 2.85L (173CI) petrol six.
If you can locate "Salisbury" type diffs (which I'm told are similar to one
of the DANA's) then you may get away with it, dont really know.
All in all sounds like an awfull lot of work, Why such a big motor in a land
rover???
It may be easier to find a chassis/driveline and graft rover panels over the
top if all you really want is the Rover body style.
Cheers and best of luck.
Oh I just thought, I presume you mean the "old" leaf sprung rovers. I have no
idea about the viability of this with the defenders/discos, tho suspect still
*lots* of work.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 370,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 14 23:09:39 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Rangie diesel conversion
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 14:33:50 CST
In-Reply-To: <9402150411.AA27449@dayton.wright.edu>; from "Andrew Steele" at Feb 14, 94 11:11:05 pm
Status: RO
Andrew Steele writes:
> What about putting one of the 4cyl cummings diesels into a Range Rover. A
> while back, I was quoted aprox $4,800 for a factory rebuilt engine. Combine
> this with a search for a Rover w/o working engine (my dealer had one last
> year that had to be replaced/rebuilt after overheating). Any thoughts?
What about the Isuzu 3.9 4DB1 (naturally aspirated) and 4DBT (Turbo) These
engines were mated to the LT95 4sp box in the sIII stage I's and early 110's
from the factory in Australia, so mounts, clutches etc have all been worked
out. The motors are expensive (at least over here) but people I've spoken to
have raved over the performance. More torque at idle than the 3.5 V8 max's.
Almost completely flat torque curve. I would love a 110 defender with one of
the turbo motors, but they are rarer than rocking horse sh*t, even second
hand naturally aspirated's they still bring big dollars. A 1987 110 3.9d
in good condition, ~140K km, with bull bar etc will bring about 15 - 20% less
than a brand new Tdi defender.
You would also need to fit the 1 : 0.996 transfer high gears, as the 3.9's
dont rev too hard
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 370,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 18:09:18 1994 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 15:58:58 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: California smog? Status: RO > > Vance, > > If you put in a later engine , just put on all the smog stuff from your old > engine and take it in and get it smogged. No one will check the SN of the > engine to see if it matches the chassis SN. The nice guy at the smog place will > never have seen a Landy before and probably will never see another. Depends on the place. Some are getting very sticky (lots of busts recently) and will reject anything that looks "odd". Legally you must have the smog equipment to match the year of the chassis or the year of the engine, which ever is LATER. Two ways around this are 1) use an early block to do your rebuild with or 2) grind off the seriel number on the block and make sure you can make a case for it being earlier than your Landy. Good Luck and keep us informed. -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 19:02:31 1994 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 17:51:31 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sick Engine Status: RO Hello Gang, Remember my seized engine, well here are some more details. The oil in the pan showed no sign of contamination of either metal, coolant or water. The no. 4 valve springs were very weak but the seats looked good. Seals are shot and the guides are worn. The no. 1 and 4 rod bearing were galled and there was some evidence of heat damage. The bearing in those two were not spun. The journals on the crank all appear in good shape but still need to be miced. The valves appear straight and the push rods show not appreciable wear on either end. The timing chain and gears look very good. The chain rollers are all in good flexiable shape and the teeth of the gears are nice and sharp with no galling or wear on the teeth. The idler gear is also in good shape and before removing it the exstension was about 1/4. I miced the compression ring land on the piston and it was .13 thousandths over. So the pistons need to be replaced. This is my plan: Go to .30 on the pistons, standard main and rod bearing, if the crank mics in standards. Replace the valve springs, guides, seals and maybe the valves. Finally repalce both rear and front main seals. What say you? This is my theory on the failure. The temps were in the -20 range and I had not driven it for several days so the 10-40 was very thick. The engine probably had a good coat of sludge from the previous owners abuse, so combine that with probably a sticky oil releif valve and it equals no oil and the no. 1 and 4 got hot enough to start sticking and there you go. Best theory I have based on what I have seen from the tear down. The rod ends of those two show some slight signs of a previous overheating. Roy-Montana The Big Sky Country- Were Men are Men and Rovers are Union!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 19:13:42 1994 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 18:02:22 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Surplus Heaters Status: RO While looking for cheap tools at a pawn shop I found some surplus jeep heaters. They are brand new in the box and include the fan/core and mounts as part of the heater housing. The plate says they are 20,000 btu and are 12v.
>From my past experience they look like the heater from
the old M-28 jeeps. I don't have the exact measurements
but can get them for anybody interested. This is all one
unit that could be bolted on to the firewall either inside
or out. The core appears to be about 4X6 inches and the
fan outlet looks like it is 1 1/2 inch diameter. They
are going for 50 bucks each. But the owner said that a
deal could be made on all three. I want one so that leaves
two left. I looked at all three and they are brand new.
The overall size is fairly small and would compare to
the Kodiak. Gut impression is that they are smaller.
They are accessiable so I can measure if anybody is
interested in trying to put a deal together to buy them
with me.
Roy-Montana The Big Sjy Country-Were Men Are Men and Rovers Are
On Strike!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 19:18:41 1994 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 17:10:56 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, bellas@gamma.tti.com Subject: Re: California smog? Status: RO Oh, I get it, grinding off the engine serial number won't look "odd". The point IS if it looks stock, THEY WILL NOT CHECK ANY FURTHER. THEY HAVE NO LIST OF LANDROVER ENGINE NUMBERS. THEY HAVE NO PICTURES OF LANDROVER ENGINES. THET DON'T EVEN CHECK THE CHASSIS SERIAL NUMBER WHEN YOU REGISTER. I know people who have later than '73 Rovers registered as pre '73s. All you need is a pink slip. If you install a 5 main block, put on the PCV valve (if your truck had one) and drive into the smog check with your mouth shut, you will have no problem! Play dumb, don't voluntier information. Don't ask if it's ok... it isn't. But, you don't even need to feel guilty. A Land Rover is one of the most enviromental friendly vehicles ever made. Think how bad all these new cars are; dripping with plastic and freon, not made to be fixed. There just like cheap pens... throw aways. Smog inspections have very little to do with clean air. R, bg
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 16:06:41 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Re: California smog? > Content-Length: 801 > X-Lines: 19 > > > > > Vance, > > Depends on the place. Some are getting very sticky (lots of busts recently) > and will reject anything that looks "odd". Legally you must have the smog > equipment to match the year of the chassis or the year of the engine, which > ever is LATER. Two ways around this are 1) use an early block to do your > rebuild with or 2) grind off the seriel number on the block and make sure > you can make a case for it being earlier than your Landy. Good Luck and > keep us informed. > > -Pete- > > >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 15 20:01:26 1994
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 20:56:06 -0500
From: "Russell G. Dushin" <dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com>
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
I dunno about CA, but here in NY, if ya choose the right station,
inspections are a breeze........
When I initially registered Nigel (1960 88) the folks at the DMV made
a big mistake I did not catch-my regi came through and got stamped with
an emissions requirement, despite the fact that he shouldn't need to
pass a breathalizer test. Ya see, I live in a house that sits about
100' (feet-no meters here, but it's about 30 of 'em) from the westchester
county line-where EVERYONE, even the old grandpa's like nige, have to
pass emmissions (I am told the standards drop dramatically for the old
farts). My mailbox, however, IS in westchester county, and so my mailing
address, as well, is for wes'ches'ta. I have since, with much pleading
(and nearly a lawyer), managed to convince the wonderful kind souls (just
in case big bro is listening) down at the DMV that Nigel deserves a
break-
"Christ, he's never drank or smoked a day in his life!"
and they gave it to him (on account of the fact that he and I are housed
in Putnam county). That was this year (and now he is completely
legit). Last year, upon my arrival at the station and much to my dismay,
the guy says to me-he says "Hmmm..What's this? Does EVERYTHING actually
work?? What are all those gearshifts for??? Ya got the regi?" I hand
it over. "Oh, you need emissions." He walks away. I'm doomed. I'm just
standing there, wondering if Nige is "clean". I'm not.
He pulls a jeep into the bay-a late model cherokee. Looks like a rover,
maybe, kinda sorta, to everyone else, anyway. I see him stickin' a hose
to the exhaust. "Suicide? What'd I say??" He returns with a big red
sticker that says EMISSIONS on it, and slaps it on. Damned thing obstructed
my vision for a whole year (the "normal" ones for those of us who live
just beyond the bounds of metro NYC are considerably smaller).
All I had to do was keep my mouth shut and pay the man.
rd/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 16 00:23:02 1994 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 22:15:18 PST From: Vance Chin <vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu> To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sick Engine Status: RO I read your story about your engine. My 88 came from my girlfriend's professor. They said that it "died with white smoke" on the freeway. I thought that this was probably the carburetor gone bad. Instead after charging the battery and starting the engine we got "click, click click ...." This was followed by removing the plugs and finding one that had no head.... Then of course one removes the head and finds the top of one of the pistons gone :-( Casualties: 1> Missing in action, top of piston #3. 2> Tops of all other pistons wounded. 3> Rod bent in a beautiful arc. 4> Head scarred. 5> Valves coated with aluminum. 6> Oil pump has seen better days. Epilogue: Calling previous owner reveals that the 88 was pinging a lot. The 88 had fairly loose intake manifold bolts when it was removed. Further inspection revealed that there was crosstalk between cylinders #2 and #3. Also found is cracks that have been repaired previously in both the block and head around above position. All I can say now is that the price I will pay for it will be low and that I will have many an hour enjoying it. :-) Vance Chin Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine :-( vance@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 16 01:25:10 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: 101 FC? Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 23:17:54 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO About a week or two ago, someone posted that they knew of some 101 Forward control units being sold by the Canadian (?) government. I spazzed and didn't save the message. could you repost it or email the info to me. Thanks... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 16 03:35:21 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Sick Engine To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 9:28:51 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402160051.AA15506@mtnoca.helena_noc>; from "ROY CALDWELL" at Feb 15, 94 5:51 pm Status: RO Roy, Yes,go for it.Virtually what I did with my diesel when it dropped a valve.I would *definitely* fit new valves as well, though,there is little point in doing all that work and not doing.I'd also reccommend having the valve seats re-machined as well,so youre back to square one,so to speak,with the head. Incidentally,is the water pump OK? Best of Luck Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 16 09:34:33 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 07:24:26 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: California smog? Status: RO >The point IS if it looks stock, THEY WILL NOT CHECK ANY FURTHER. Probably true depending on how stock it looks. A friend had converted a TR7 to use a buick v6, even though he had all the original smog equipment on it the two places he went recognized the engine and wouldn't touch it. He finally went to a referee station and they looked up the block seriel # and decided his car was an 82 and needed all the 82 equipment. Once this had been settled they attached a plate that descibed the equipment and now he can get it smoged anywhere. >Oh, I get it, grinding off the engine serial number won't look "odd". He asked what would have happended if there was no seriel number on the engine and was told that they would have you fill out an affidavit specifying the model year! >Smog inspections have very little to do with clean air. Ain't that the truth!!! -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 16 10:56:35 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 08:46:26 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sick Engine Status: RO Roy, At this time, it really dosn't matter why you tore the engine down. You are already committed to building it. Heres some additional suggestions. 1. When you get the crank mic'ed also get the rods checked. Don't forget to have new bushings put on the small end. 2. Have the clearance on the oil pump checked and don't forget to replace the 'o' ring on the oil pump pickup. 3. You might want to get the distributer checked & its inners cleaned up. They get pretty grungy over the years and can wear or stick. 4. I always vote for new gears chain & tensioner on any tired engine I rebuild. Those puppies wear and as they do the car will slowly run worse until the day the streached chain jumps a tooth. If your absolutely sure there is no wear on the teeth, it would still be a good idea to pop a new chain on it. 5. These days I wouldn't have a head off without making sure that there are hardened seats on both exhaust and intake. Having lived with an air cooled VW in the past, i would opt for all new exhaust valves. Intakes seem to last forever. 6. You might want to pull the cam & look for any signs of wear. Just be sure that when reusing a cam & lifters that you put it back together with the same lifters on the same lobes. 7. Diaassemble the rocker arm and check for wear on the shaft and the bushings on the rocker arms. Like the rod small end bushings, the rocker bushings need to be fitted and machined out to fit the shaft. EXTRA CREDIT IF YOU HAVE SHIPFITTERS DISEASE: When my engine was out, I decided to have my transmission gone through. It was working fine with no problems and no reason to expect problems other that a lot of miles. The first gears were worn to the point that there were cracks starting at some bases. There was a retaining clip that kept second gear in place that was almost completely worn through. TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 17 08:48:09 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: your mailer is being anti-social again..
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 01:18:25 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 451 <ovlr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>... reply: read error
> 554 <ovlr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>... timeout waiting for input
> 451 <ovlr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>... reply: read error
>
> ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
> <ovlr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Cute... :-)
That morass of headers looked just like my 109 trying to start on
these nice winter mornings... :-)
Oh yeah, some LRO content...
Michel in the Townships found a 109 Station Wagon with a tree
growing through it. They only wanted 2k for it <snicker>, He also
has found a nicely restored 88 for about 4k. Now, back to the OVLR
newsletter...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 17 20:12:30 1994
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 94 19:03:10 MST
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Tools
Status: RO
This is just a general question out of curiosity
because I am doing an engine rebuild.
If you had to have only few tools for general
maintance on the Rover, what would those tools
be? This is making the assumption that the factory
tool kit and jack are missing in action.
Part two of the question would and what spares would
you never leave home without? Oh I failed to mention
that the tools and spares have to be able to fit in
the Rover. This be on the road, always the right tool
handy kinda thing to get you going down the road again.
And I am ready to post the names of peoples Rover and
want to give the new people a chance to add theirs to
the list.
Just a couple of questions for note comparison.
Thanks.
Roy-Montana the Big Sky Country-Were Men are Men and Rovers
Live Forever
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 17 21:12:52 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Thu, 17 Feb 1994 21:06:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Hello To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello - I recently got on the LRO list, so I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Michael Ramage and I'm a geology student (junior) at Carleton College in Southeastern Minnesota. I grew up in Ithaca New York, where there are quite a few Land Rovers. I have a 1971 88 IIa, limestone hardtop here in minnesota (anyone have a Kodiak for sale...?), and a 1967 109 IIa chevy six/salisbury/1 ton hybrid at home. I've been driveing and working on Land Rovers for 4 years, but I've been interested a lot longer (I'll spare you the rest). If there's anyone on here in SE MN, I'd love to here from you (Ithaca too for that matter) That's HEAR, by the way. Cheers, -- MIchael
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 03:35:19 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Some more Rovering...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 19:13:37 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Not a bad Saturday I guess... The 109 is going again, brakes
semi-adjusted, engine tuned to the best possible condition without
replacing the rings (note: tuning an engine is a lot easier if you
remember to take the choke off when it idles... :-)), the generator
changed on George's 88, and some generally playing about in the
snow. Not bad I guess... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 03:37:09 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: 101 FC?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 19:23:28 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:
> About a week or two ago, someone posted that they knew of some
> 101 Forward control units being sold by the Canadian (?) government. I
> spazzed and didn't save the message. could you repost it or email the
> info to me. Thanks...
I'll dig the information up. It isn't the Canadian Government that
is selling them, but an individual in Vancouver who is bringing
them in from the UK, or Germany, for sale. The price is $13,000
Canadian. Whether or not they can be re exported into the United
States is another matter.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 19 21:28:01 1994 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 20:16:47 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover Names Status: RO Well since I was not getting anymore interest in owners sharing their vehicle names this is a list of what names I did get. Obediah-With no year or Series Blue Beast-No year or Series Best and only suggestion for Dale D's 68-88 was Stromboli Dixon has the Swamp Beast a 109 and his friend, George Kearney has The Little Earth Pig There is Sally a 107 and a 109 pick-up by the name of Cedrick along with a 88 called HMS Never-Run Then comes along Dora a 72 88 in good company with Nigel Hamilton, who is also none as, Nige, daNige or Nigeguy Let us not forget Rover Roach a farm working 67 88 with three 88s called Red Rover with two of those in hospital Then comes Little Lulu a 61 88, a 64 88 referred to as Elephino. And from the Down Under boys there is Rambling Girl a 74 109 and
The Old Man. From California, the shake and bake state, is a 109 called Green Rover and then there is Land Warrior a 67 109 And from here in Montana is a 62 88 by the name of Coyote Sister a 58 88 that looks and acts just like the anti-christ with an unnamed 69 88 that will go up for sale as soon as the engine gets rebuilt I think what this tells us is that we must really love our Rovers or we wouldn't take the time to give them names. Roy-Montana The Big Sky Country- Were Rovers rule the Rocky Mountains and other 4x4s are bear bait.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 00:02:59 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Rover Names To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 22:58:02 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9402200316.AA20997@mtnoca.helena_noc> from "ROY CALDWELL" at Feb 19, 94 08:16:47 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 515 Status: RO Roy, I'm new to the list, and I didn't know you were compiling Rover names. You may add mine: Saladin (Sali, for short), a 1967 109. Here in the Denver area, I know also of an "Elephant Catcher", "Bwana", and "Antichrist". My favorite was my girlfriend's of decades ago. She was of the Society of Friends persuasion, and her Rover was the "Quaker Shaker". Todd T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 01:04:25 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Land Rover World issue no. 1 To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 00:00:59 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 883 Status: RO My apologies if this came up before (I'm new here)... Has anybody seen *Land Rover World*? Issue no. 1 (winter 1993) purports to be the first of a new monthly magazine. It's glossy, full-colour, and slightly thinner in pagination than *LRO International*. A friend picked it one up at Heathrow Airport. It might be available on news-stands only; subscription information is not very plain. Whether you have seen it or not, I am curious to hear your reactions. Is LRW viable? Is there a market for 2 such international magazines? Are there unstated political reasons why LRW might want to compete with LROI? (Have any of you, for instance, experienced LROI's editorial policy -- or lack thereof -- toward contributors?) Todd T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 05:02:20 1994
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LA Times had silly Hummer Article
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 02:55:56 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
So I'm reading the LA Times on Friday (reading the comics of course)
and I spied an article on the Hummer on the front page of the View (comics)
section. I was amused enough by it that I typed it in for the rest of you
to enjoy. (and please forgive the typos....)
Twice the article slams Ranger Rovers!
The article is printed here without permission and was located in
the Friday 18 Feb 94 paper on pages E1 and E4.
"Not the Retiring Type" Behind the Wheel/Paul Dean
-picture with the caption "Weighing in at three tons, seven feet wide, the
Hummer is so ugle it's handsome."
-random quote to get your attention--"Don't let the air conditioning and power
windows fool you. the '94 Hummer is still a commando in civilian clothing."
"In their gropings between genius and lunacy, inventors have developed
cars that double as airplanes, convertables that dabble as motorboats and
vehicles that run on methane gas squeezed from chicken droppings."
"Add AM General's Hummer to the honor roll of dreamy impracticality."
"Recently demobilized from military service, this car-truck-tank,
go-anywhere carryall is capable of lurching from A (Alaska) to B (Bahrain)
while climbing the Jungfrau, butting herads with rogue elephants and
fording shallower reaches of the Atlantic.
Earthquakes fear this vehicle. Add a few sacks of quarters and it's
a Brinks's truck. If Robert E. Lee had had a squadron of Hummers, we'all would
be speaking Georgian. Arnold Schwarzenegger--a man known to eat sofas--owns
four and stands tiny by comparison.
On the civilian market, though, the Hummer makes little sense.
It is seven-feet across or about the width of a freeway lane, and at
40 m.p.h. that's a SigAlert. The sight and snorts of a three-ton Hummer have
caused.valet parkers to turn in their red vests. At a four-way stop, everybody
quakes and mobody moves until the Hummer moves out of sight.
Mostly aluminum surfaces are pocked by naked bolts, bare hinges and
visible rivets. This vehicle is so outdoorsy and all-weather even its map
pockets have drain holes. It has two piece wheels and Goodyear Jungle Ambush
tires tht cost $450 apiece.
Still, as Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower praised the jeep as one of the most
important weapons of World War II, so Gen. Norman H. Schwarzkopf anoited the
Hummer as the toughest desert fighter since Lawrence of Arabia.
That was blessing enough for AM General of South Bend--with the Willys
and Jeep in its corporate bloodline--to decide to transform the High Mobility
Multi-Purpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) to mufti.
So the 1st Infantry Division's HumVee has become the Beverly Hills
Hummer, a much hipper persona. It has been softened by a JVC sound system,
air conditioning, power locks and upholstry that's more Pendleton Mills
than Camp Pendleton.
It comes in colors, including, naturally, Guardsmen Red. There are
cup holders that have never seen a GI canteen. Also armrests, remote entry,
power windows, glove box, real carpets and other sissy stuff.
Andre Agassi has bought a Hummer. It hasn't done much for his tennis
game, but it does appear to ahve earned him, Barbara Streisand and Brooke
Shields. When basso James Earl Jones cut some commercials for AM General,
he happily accepted one of the vehicles in payment.
"Despite all this civilization, the 1994 Hummer remains a commando
in a C&R suit.
It is square and flat from all angles and so ugly it is handsome.
Any similarity to a barrack block is intentional. A Hummer has space for
half of Delta Force, but still only sets four.
There is no insulation, just the power of a megawatt sound system
to distracft from the roar of a 170-horsepower diesel slurping a gallon of
fuel every dozen miles. Also the thumping of 37 inch tires locked in permanent
four-wheel drive and trying to stomp through asphalt.
Thanks to enourmous windshield and door pillers, visability
requires carefull coordinating the eyes of all occupants. Or mounting closed
curcuit television. Speeding tickets are not to be feared in a vehicle that
grunts and chuffs to reach 85 m.p.h. Accleration is best measured by
luner phases.
Every window is dead vertical and night reflections produce a sense of
driving inside a planetarium. The interior is the center spread of an after-
market catalogue. There is enough space between front passengers for
Monopoly, a picnic lunch and conversations by bullhorn.
And as any Raiders; scout will tell you, brute force doesn't come
cheap. Hummer prices start at $40,000 for a two passenger hardtop,
lumbering to more than $60,000 for a four-passenger wagon with basic
creatrure discomforts.
The Hummer's warrnty is three years or 36,000 miles--or 50 wars and
three direct hits.
Diesel fuel costs about $1.45 a gallon, and reduced availibility
resrtricts refueling to a diminished number of Los Angeles service stations
of the Flying J truck stop at Blythe.
Still civilian practicality isn't the issue here.
The Hummer was designed to offer the strength and duribility for
multiple military purposes from PX runs to hauling grunts and ordnance over
all terrains through every climate.
Since 1985, Am General had sold more than 100,000 Hummers to friendly
forces around the world. It is a very serious 4x4 performing the functions of
serveral vehicles--ambulance, missle platform, waepons carrier and the beloved,
ubiquitos, but utdated Jeep.
To expect this hard-nosed military ideal to transition easily to softer
civilian life is to believe that Alexander the Great retired comfortable to
shuffleboard.
"That the Hummer is available at all is a tribute to the lobby of
those--including Arnold Schwarzenegger--who persuaded AM General there would
be a market for an urban wilderness vehicle that is to the Range Rover what
the battleship Missouri is to the QEII.
They were right. For every conformist, there is someone who likes
polka-dot pit bulls. Today there are 1000 Hummers beating up American roads,
a 55-member Hummer Owners Assn. in San Diego, and one owner who believes in
revertable roots and plays soldier with his Hummer painted Desert Storm
camoflage.
A spokesman says that only 25% of civilian sales ar to suburbanites
with incomes to dispose on adult toys. That percentage will drop as the
novelty wears thin. Then, he says, the Hummer will be recognized as the
perfect pack mule for ranchers, winery owners, desert trekkies, oil
explorers, off-road racers, bush doctors and anyone who does business in
great construction sites.
With 16 inches of ground clearance and springs tough enough to
cushion the Golden Gate Bridge, obstacles may slow the Hummer, but they
won't block it. Not two foot snow drifts. Not axle-high bogs.
If muck becomes a struggle, there's an onboard compressor and a
one-button system to reduce tire pressure for better traction. when sand is
up to the steering wheel, there's a 12,000-pound winch to heave you out.
Water certainly doesn't dampen its spirits. The only problem is that
hydrodynamics follow the flow pattersn of aerodynamics and Hummers are as
streamlined as house bricks. So water approached too fast will sloth over the
vehicle, eaven over the windshield, and not swirl around it.
Back in the marginal civilization of the Los Angeles freeway system, a
Hummer isn't the happiest of ground-pounders. It huffs to enter traffic at a
crawl. Steering via a surprizingly small wheel is light and a little twitchy.
Industrial strength breeaks are effective, but lock easily.
But again, the Hummer was designed for zones of primative combat, not
the Hollywood freeway. Although some may argue that degree of comprable risk.
So you invest $60,000 in this unarmored personnel carrier.
When the feeling wears off, you can sell it to Ollie North as a
campaign vehicle."
Then there was a box with stats and a picture looking from the driver's
windo (caption--"The 1994 Hummer's interior has all the comforts of a real
car")
"1994 AM General Hummer"
Cost
*Base: $54,009
*As tested, $67,719. (Includes automatic transmission, cloth bucket seats,
power doors and windows, air conditioning, central tire
inflation, brush guard, runflat tires, premium JVC
sound system.)
Engine
*6.5 literdiesel developing 170 horsepower.
Type
*Four-wheel drive, off road station wagon.
Performance
*0-60 m.p.h., as tested, 22.4 seconds
*maximum speed 85 m.p.h.
*Fuel Consumption, city and highway, on-road and off, 12 m.p.g.
Curb Weight
*6,200 pounds
The Good
*Tough, approaching bulltproof.
*Go anywhere, do anything, wilderness stalker.
*Eats Range Rovers
*Distinction of an endangered species.
The Bad
*lane clogger
*Noisier than a sore drill sergeant
*Too wide, long, heavy and expensive
The Ugly
*bumper to bumper
-Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 12:16:44 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover World issue no. 1
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 10:04:36 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) writes:
> Has anybody seen *Land Rover World*? Issue no. 1 (winter 1993)
Heard of it, but have not seen it over here yet.
> Whether you have seen it or not, I am curious to hear your reactions.
> Is LRW viable? Is there a market for 2 such international
> magazines? Are there unstated political reasons why LRW might want to
> compete with LROI? (Have any of you, for instance, experienced LROI's
> editorial policy -- or lack thereof -- toward contributors?)
There probably is space for a second magazine, especially since LRO
seems to be moving away from articles on the military vehicles and
like. LRO seems to have slipped a bit in the editorial checking
department too. An example would be in the February issue where
they label a photo "Series III gearbox", but is actually a 90/110
box. The columnists seem to be changing, though I am told that
some of this is the result of a readers poll which they are paying
attention to. LRO makes quite a bit of cash, something which is
helped by a policy, if you can call it that, whereby they are quick
to publish articles that they do not have to pay for, leaving
submitted articles from more professional people out. I'll dig up
an article from one of the OVLR club newsletters that discusses
this.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 12:17:01 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Rover Names
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 10:10:33 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> Dixon has the Swamp Beast a 109 and his friend, George Kearney
> has The Little Earth Pig
I am buying the "little Earth pig" while George is finishing up the
"big Earth Pig", a Series IIA 109 pick-up.
> There is Sally a 107 and a 109 pick-up by the name of Cedrick
Sally is owned by Al Pilgrim, Cedrick by Bruce Ricker, both OVLR
members.
Rudolph is a Series IIA 109 pick-up owned by Michel Bertrand,
another OVLR member. I'll dig up some more names for you... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 19:47:53 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover World issue no. 1
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 18:25:07 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes:
> I'll dig up an article from one of the OVLR club newsletters
> that discusses
Found it... How soon I forget. It is in this months newsletter...
:-)
Rgds,
GENERAL SERVICE by Robin Craig
Howdy folks! What more can I say? It's good to be around again.
Lotsa goodies for you this month so lets get started.
Howdy folks! What more can I say? It's good to be around again. Well
for those of you who have been living under a rock, the Rover group was
sold to BMW on the first of this month. I guess BMW now stands for
British Motor Works! I hope for all parties involved that this marriage
in the continuing saga of the Land Rover Story works out. Also I trust
that Land Rover Ltd remains unscathed by it all, because boys and
girls, in case you have not noticed money is what it is all about. In
other words the management of the day will make decisions that dyed in
the wool lovers of the aluminium beast like yourself view as abhorrent.
Remember they run the company and not you.
Land Rover Owner (LRO) magazine is facing some competition on the
home front. A publication put out by Link House, publishers of the
British magazine Off Road And Four Wheel Drive, printed under the name
of "Land Rover & Range Rover World" has surfaced. The blurb sent out to
advertisers claims the following "Enjoying a close relationship with
Land Rover Ltd, Land Rover World is the first dedicated magazine to
offer credible adventure, technical, military and historical features
devoted to the Lode Lane vehicles while presenting them in an
attractive and aesthetically pleasing way which is enjoyable and at the
same time, highly informative." As yet I have not seen it for myself.
Those in the know in the UK that I have talked to say that it is not
all it is cracked up to be. The name Land Rover World is already in use
by the factory as the title for it's own magazine sent out to
commercial customers. On an historical note my archivist Bob Wood
reminds me that it was Link House who were sparring partners for the
Overlander magazine once put out by David Bowyer.
Talking of mediocre, LRO itself is suffering under its own internal
power struggles and constraints. A number of respected writers seem to
have fallen out of favour from what I understand. Proof reading seems
to have slipped somewhat over the last year. A number of cock ups with
picture captions and the like leaves one to believe that there is room
for improvement in the proof reading department.
The February LRO shows a picture claiming to be a series 3 gearbox.
The gearbox has a short and a long lever sticking out of the top and
attached to the frame in full view is a torsion bar. This is a 90/110!
James Taylor admitted to me he did put the wrong photo in for
publication but was surprised that the editor had not noticed it
either. A more amusing faux-pas this month is some captioning for a
jacking article by David Bowyer which states "Here the author is just
demonstrating - his nuts are still in place". I'm sure we'll all sleep
better knowing that!!
Charles (you can call me Master Corporal) Widenmaier is back on the
road again. After just about a complete rebuild his 88 is up and raring
to go. If any of you are planning on going up to the Petawawa area give
him a call at 687 6688 and get together if you can. I have it on good
authority that his vehicle used to be mistaken for a Coleman stove (if
you want more details ask him). To put and end to that the rebuild was
topped of with a two tone brown paint job, the nickname the Brown
Bomber cant be far behind now.
If you like me collect the reduced Rovers then you might be interested
to know that ED Models in Solihull of all places have a new released by
JB models on sale. It is of a Series 3 109" hard top towing a trailer
in 1/76 scale. This model is available at about 3.50 pounds directly
plus taxes shipping etc or can be ordered through Terry Jones at the
Hobby House location on Montreal Road here in town.
Finally a warning to all of you with the famous SPIN ON OIL FILTER
ADAPTERS. David ( Daphne to his friends ) Lowe from Toronto relates a
tale of I think it was four engine strip downs on one vehicle in about
as many days. The vehicle in question has a spin on oil filter adapter
fitted. Unfortunately the owner (not David) had fitted it on back to
front, some doubt this is possible but David says it is. In conjunction
with a new style FRAM filter, which has an internal valve which allows
circulation in one direction only, the problems began. What resulted
was great oil pressure, against the valve but no flow because the valve
was closed because the adapter, fitted backwards had reversed the flow.
Follow that? Any queries call David at 1 416 283 9130 NOT ME!
That's all folks..... I'm outa here............... Robin
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 20:51:37 1994 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 19:43:08 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Silly Article Status: RO Well crap I should go to LA and get a job writing for the Times. It sure is clear the guy writing the article has no clue what he was talking about. He may have driven the Hummer in LA but that seems to be about it. What a load of crap. I have driven the Range Rover and the Hummer and if I had to choose which to drive for a long period of time in all kinds of conditions, it would be the Range Rover without any hesitation. I guess I'm still cranky about the BMW deal. I wrote those letters again. Glad my Rovers don`t get the net posts or they would stay on strike. Negotiations have broken down for now. Can't afford to have this walk-out go on much longer. I am starting to have systems of addiction withdrawl. Roy-Montana The Big Sky Country- Were Rovers Are Still On Strike And An Owner Is About To Have A Breakdown.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 21:51:46 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 21:43:33 -0500 (CDT) Subject: more names To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I'm newish too, so bear with me while I share my names I have a Series IIa 88, 1971, by the name of At Arabasi. It means "horse cart" in Turkish. (I spend my summers doing archaeology in Turkey, with two great rovers, a 1957 107 in Pink and a 1964 green 109 p-up. I also have a 1967 blue station wagon, which i call Calamari, which is Greek for squid (this is because of the marine blue paint, not the inky black exhaust!). The 107 naturally goes by the name of Pinky, which is also the name and color of the local hairy spider, about the size a distributer cap. The other is called Greenie, which also happens to be the Director's nickname. Cheers, Michael Ramage Ramagem@carleton.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 21 13:34:49 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: tools From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 13:07:05 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dixon was asking what I keep in that large container in the back. I will try to remember. Blanket, Traction aids, pull strap, pull cable, pull rope, winch accessories, Jackall accesories, tool box, emergency kit, coleman stove. emergency kit contains a swiss army knife, a small pot with lid, matches in a waterproof container, candle, duct tape, Peterson's Field Guide to the Stars and Planets, a can of Libby's finest deep brown beens, another can of alfageti, a container of maple syrup. What I carry in the tool kit depends on how far i am going. I also carry a shovel, Jackall. When I was driving the petrol Land Rover, I would always carry a spare coil. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 21 19:42:06 1994
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: fwd:Land Rover for sale
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 17:37:18 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
A friend spotted this and fowarded it to me. I thought I'd pass it on to
the net. Ben
-------------cut---here------------------------------------------------------
>From: ben_hui@mdd.comm.mot.com (Ben Hui)
>Newsgroups: rec.autos.marketplace
>Subject: ***Land Rover for Sale***
>Date: 21 Feb 1994 17:11:15 GMT
>Organization: Motorola Wireless Data
land rover 1966 series IIa 88" in excellent condition.this car took 2nd
place at portland international all british field meet in 92.all
mechanicals are in excellent condition as well as the body work.the vehicle
has been stripped and re painted in a british racing green.new brakes
,removeable canpoy for the convertable defender 88 look.freewheel front
hubs. this is a daily driver with no problems whatsoever.interior is in
excellent condition.
$ 6000.00 o.b.o.
hui_ben.mdd.comm.mod.com for more info .
-----------end--fwd-----------------------------------------------------
-Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 00:03:39 1994
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 21:45:37 PST
From: Vance Chin <vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu>
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: distance piece specs
Status: RO
In looking at my brakes and bearings I noticed some slight
wear on the distance piece. How much should it be before I have
to replace it? They have about .001 inch grove in them, I think
that this is fine and will leave them in.
The brake drums themselves are a sight to see, they have
about .075" left on the wall. It so bad on one that I could not
get the drum off due to the brake pads being behind the large ridge.
I am also getting an 5 main bearing engine from Creed Evans.
This will be a basically running engine that I will redue the head,
rering the pistons, add bearings, and add new seals. At the price
he is selling it for I will end up with a better engine that doing
a total rebuild on my 3 main at about the same cost. He also has
a lot of landrovers for sale including some 90's and 110's.
Vance Chin
Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine
and Brakes :-(
vance@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 00:06:04 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Silly Article
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 20 Feb 94 19:43:08 MST."
<9402210243.AA21967@mtnoca.helena_noc>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 00:55:47 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> I guess I'm still cranky about the BMW deal. I wrote those letters
(stateside:)
BTW: word late today is that Honda bailed, and is selling thier 20% share,
(presumably to BMW). BMW is still trying to save the old co-operative
agreements, cross sourcing/selling rover/honda parts and what not.
Evidently Asian defense partners (Japan) nabbed the Hummer drawings (gratis)
from the Army, and turned them over to Toyoyo, who cranked out something
that looks very similar (though one might think it inherited some body
styling from the land-cruisers) for the JDF, AND put one on the stand
at (I forget Tokyo ? Chicago ?) motor show.
------
Not much news from my place, the papers have gone into H.M. immigrations
folks, no word yet on the status...
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 01:29:17 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: MEGA-cruiser
To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 16:41:57 CST
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <199402220555.AAA06565@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Feb 22, 94 00:55:47 am
Status: RO
William Caloccia
>
> Evidently Asian defense partners (Japan) nabbed the Hummer drawings (gratis)
> from the Army, and turned them over to Toyoyo, who cranked out something
> that looks very similar (though one might think it inherited some body
> styling from the land-cruisers) for the JDF, AND put one on the stand
> at (I forget Tokyo ? Chicago ?) motor show.
One of the local 4x4 rags had an article on the MEGA-Cruiser. This is the
Tojo Hummer look a like, sort of a hummer with a wagon body. If I remember
rightly the test vehicle was a civilian version being sold in Japan, A/coned
I think!! Compared the Mega-Cruiser and the Hummer, Japan wins again. I didnt
buy the mag as no LR content, can go see if it still exists if people are
interested.
Re: Honda's bail out, does that mean that the next Rover sterling (or what
ever they are) will be a British assembled BMW 5 or 7 series. I shudder to
think.
Lets hope that they at least keep the parts supply up for the "true" rovers
(I include the old p series and even SD1's in this)
cheers
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 18 11:38:06 1994 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 09:28:55 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Tools Status: RO In message <9402180203.AA18472@mtnoca.helena_noc> ROY CALDWELL writes: > > This is just a general question out of curiosity > because I am doing an engine rebuild. > > If you had to have only few tools for general > maintance on the Rover, what would those tools > be? This is making the assumption that the factory > tool kit and jack are missing in action. > > Part two of the question would and what spares would > you never leave home without? Oh I failed to mention > that the tools and spares have to be able to fit in > the Rover. This be on the road, always the right tool > handy kinda thing to get you going down the road again. > > And I am ready to post the names of peoples Rover and > want to give the new people a chance to add theirs to > the list. > > Just a couple of questions for note comparison. > > Thanks. > > Roy-Montana the Big Sky Country-Were Men are Men and Rovers > Live Forever > Tools for general maintenence: *A 3/8" socket set, with extensions, ratchets etc. *A set of combination wrenches with duplicate 1/2 & 9/16 wrenches *E-Z Bleed kit *A set of screwdrivers *a medium to large vice grip *feeler guages torque wrench *Factory manuals *small needle nose pliers *A big socket that fits the front hub nuts *spark plug socket *voltage test light 2 of the best jack stands you can find and a floor jack *A pair of slip joint pliers *1 small & 1 medium crescent wrench A big jug of Simple Green & some cleaning brushes Tools marked with an * go with me on long trips If you go on a trip the single most important thing you can take with you is a prepaired car. This means about a week before yopu leave (so you have a chance to drive on it): A full tuneup Balance all 4 wheels if you are going to spend some time on the paved roads check brake lininings and adjust all five brakes. Lube front end and 'U' joints Clean fuel bowel on gas pump (if you don't do this often you will probably need to put in a new rubber seal so have one ready) replace fuel filter that you might have installed check all hoses and the fan belt. Make sure your fuse connections are clean, your battery connections are clean & tight and that all the lights are working correctly. Crawl under and about the car shaking & jiggling things to make sure everything is on tight and looks OK. Its amazing the number of problems you can head off by looking at each part and making sure it is secured properly. Clean up & lube jack Just before leaving: replace oil & filter for engine. Check all fluids, radiator, battery, steering box, transmission, transfer case, both diffs, front ball joints, hydrolic system and windscreen washer. If you put in new points the previous week, recheck the gap check air pressures in tyres, including spare. Clean windows inside & out, and clean light lenses. What do I carry on long multiday trips? The above tools & manuals marked with an astix any special molded hoses (Never needed them because I checked condition before I left) engine & gear oil water pump plugs, points, capacitor, rotor, cap, extra fuses, a length of spark plug wire A set of working on car clothes, clean rags, a small tarp & an old blanket to lay on. Jumper cables insulated wire with allagator clips at both ends A tube of the good blue RTV that comes in the in a gray tube A good flash light HiLift jack, lug wrench & spare tyre Two parts catalogues from Land Rover spares mail order companys A large chunk of $$$ hidden away. If off roading is expected, add: Check the winch before leaving 2 comealongs A long length of strong rope portable CB with spare batteries Sand latters if you got them & modified sand anchor if you got it. Small shovel My general philosophy is to prevent problems by maintnenece and inspection at least a week before going. Drive on it a week to see if there are complications or early failure of a substandard new part. Top off all fluids just before leaving. Carry the minimum of parts you need that you can not expect to pick up at any small town parts shop. Be set up to do anything. If something breaks, and you can get to a phone, you can get just about any part overnight express. If you need a tow or to have someone put the LR on a lift, you have cash for those not taking out of state/provence checks. Notice I didn't bother with spare axles. I have broken many an axle in the past and almost every time it took the diff out with it. My thought is to remove the axles, the drive shaft & get back on the pavement. If you carry spares, you might want to carry a spare good diff too. You need to IMMEDIATLY stop the LR, remove both axles, the drive shaft & diff. Use a lot of rags and agressivly search for metal parts throughout the housing. Reassemble the parts, put fluids back in & go. If your going off road, and you have old axles, replace them before you go. The tend to crystalize with use over time & break. Use freshish axles and put the car in 4wd as soon as the pavement ends & you will avoid most broken axles. Oh a mistake I made, don't tow small sheds with your Land Rover. Even in 4wd you may brake an axle. just one woman's opinion TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 20 03:37:11 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Tools
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 1994 18:56:27 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> Part two of the question would and what spares would
> you never leave home without? Oh I failed to mention
> that the tools and spares have to be able to fit in
> the Rover. This be on the road, always the right tool
> handy kinda thing to get you going down the road again.
Well, ever bearing in mind the general age, lack of complete
overhaul that some of our vehicles, some of us tend to carry quite
an arsenal of parts about with us. Myself, I generally have a
small floor jack in the back (hydraulic jacks are a pain when a
tire needs to be changed), spare: coil, distributor cap, fuel pump,
brake fluid, gasoline, foot operated air pump, and a bunch of
tools. Generally there is other stuff tossed in the back from the
off-road activities such as rope, chain, et cetera.
Dale, what do you fill that huge rubbermaid container with?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 12:06:06 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Land Rover World issue no. 1 To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 17:59:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402200701.AA25888@diana.cair.du.edu> from "T.F. Mills" at Feb 20, 94 00:00:59 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1179 Status: RO > Has anybody seen *Land Rover World*? Issue no. 1 (winter 1993) > purports to be the first of a new monthly magazine. > > Whether you have seen it or not, I am curious to hear your reactions. > Is LRW viable? Is there a market for 2 such international > magazines? LRW is not really a direct competitor to LRO since LRW only appears quarterly. It is published on the first friday of every third month - the next issue is due on 4th March. I found it very interesting and it seemed to offer a slightly more useful approach inasmuch as it included more info on maintenance / repair / restoration rather than endless tedious reports (and pictures) of people getting their Land Rovers stuck in the mud. LRO also tends to be full of glowing reports about this that or the other new model or conversion job - has anyone ever noticed any real criticism of any LR product in LRO? Good, even excellent, LR's products may be, perfect they are not. Having said that, I will continue to buy both LRO and LRW even if the latter were to go monthly - unlike the computing fraternity, its not as if we're spoilt for choice when it comes to Land Rover magazines. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 15:15:00 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: shock absorbers Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 13:08:15 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO My shocks are about shot and I was wondering if I should put in heavy duty shocks or the normal ones offered by Rovers North. Any advice from the net? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 15:15:00 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: shock absorbers Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 13:08:15 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO My shocks are about shot and I was wondering if I should put in heavy duty shocks or the normal ones offered by Rovers North. Any advice from the net? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Feb 22 18:16:46 1994
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: shock absorbers
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 22 Feb 1994 18:02:25 EST."
<9402221802.tn14131@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 15:53:41 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
In message <9402221802.tn14131@aol.com>you write:
> yes, here's some advice:
> don't shop at Rovers North!
>
> Mies (fighting for Land Rover justice in the US) V R
Could you elaborate on this? I've the LR parts dealers that I've
dealt with in the US, Rovers North has been the best for me. I've had bad
experiences with the parts from Atlantic British failing in less than a year.
The folks at British Pacific, though they sell only genuine parts, never have
what I want in stock.
So do you have a better place to get parts? And popping down to
customs to get parts takes a lot of time.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 00:25:01 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 19:15:33 +1300
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Rangey sudden death!
To: lro@stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
Fellow Owners,
I have a '71 LPG/Petrol Range Rover and this morning it developed a nasty
sickness.
In both LPG and Petrol mode, it starts fine, runs for around 5-7 seconds
and dies. It seems to run slightly longer if I don't rev the engine, but
only for a couple more seconds.
My feeble diagnosis is a constricted exhaust, but before I disconnect the
frail exhaust pipes from the manifolds, does anyone have alternative
tests/suggestions?
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 04:32:22 1994 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Rangey sudden death! To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) (Daryl Webb) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 10:36:57 GMT Cc: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402230657.AA29713@sun1>; from "Daryl Webb" at Feb 23, 94 4:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > DAVID DEAN > > > > In both LPG and Petrol mode, it starts fine, runs for around 5-7 seconds > > and dies. It seems to run slightly longer if I don't rev the engine, but > > only for a couple more seconds. > > > Check the ballast resistor, sounds a lot like this may be the problem. > ( this is the white ceramic thing about 15 x 15 x 80 mm that lives near the > coil.) > Try bypassing it by taking the power feed wire directly to the coil. > May even just be a connection. Yes this springs to my mind too, although the vehicle should die as soon as the starter is turned off. > Doesnt sound like exhaust constriction to me. > Of course I could be wrong :-) > Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) Sure doesn't sound like an exhaust to me either. How does it run and die? Did you have problems before this? An exhaust problem would be very gradual I would think. Fuel problems tend not to happen rightaway, but the engine spluters as a warning first. Electrical problems on the other hand tend to cause instant failure, but can be intermittent. This is all very general; more description of the problem/running history/recent work would help. One thing which _may_ apply to your V8 (I presume it is a V8) is that you may have an electric fuel pump wired thro' the oil pressure switch (which then has three terminals). This wasn't standard on UK machines, which may even have had mechanical fuel pumps in a vehicle of your vintage. Just a thought. Don't drop the exhaust until you've had a look at electrics first and fuel second is my advice; which is worth what you paid for it of course... Best Regards, Steve. 79 Rangey
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 00:59:16 1994
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Rangey sudden death!
To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:25:47 CST
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <AE68BA5200@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>; from "DAVID DEAN" at Feb 23, 94 07:15:33 pm
Status: RO
DAVID DEAN
>
> In both LPG and Petrol mode, it starts fine, runs for around 5-7 seconds
> and dies. It seems to run slightly longer if I don't rev the engine, but
> only for a couple more seconds.
Check the ballast resistor, sounds a lot like this may be the problem.
( this is the white ceramic thing about 15 x 15 x 80 mm that lives near the
coil.)
Try bypassing it by taking the power feed wire directly to the coil.
Dont leave the resistor bypassed for long that'll do nasty things to the coil.
May even just be a connection.
Doesnt sound like exhaust constriction to me.
Of course I could be wrong :-)
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
_-*_|\ '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 09:00:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Silly Article From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 18:27:28 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes: > BTW: word late today is that Honda bailed, and is selling thier 20% share, > (presumably to BMW). BMW is still trying to save the old co-operative > agreements, cross sourcing/selling rover/honda parts and what not.
It is to BMW. From what I have heard, Honda doesn't see any future
in the agreements that they had with Rover now that BMW owns them.
Whether or not this bears out however...
Honda is rather pissed off about the whole issue, only offering to
go to 48% of Rover because they saw the need for British control,
the last fight when GM wanted Land Rover, and the desire to keep
things nice and calm, productive and profitable. Honda spent
fifteen years building a relationship with Rover, one where Honda
engineering and production expertise was used to drive Rover
up-market, keep it profitable, while keeping it out of Honda's low
cost market niche. This strategy worked well, for both Honda and
Rover. Honda's strategy has generally been one of localised
globalisation of production. Honda's refusal to go above 48%
reflected this strategy. Honda also has shareholders who are
interested in the long-term, and not short-term profits.
The sale of Rover by BAe is solely the result of a financial system
which rewards short term profit over long term planning and common
sense. The British industrial base has benefitted by being
protected from the vices of an anti-industrial financial system by
State intervention and two world wars. Fifty years of peace and
slow, but progressive deregulation, especially under Thatcher,
exposed British industry as never before. The sale of Rover is
just one more example of a much larger process.
Using common sense, which takes shareholders as being there for the
long term, and not short-term gain, BAe was faced with raising 167
million pounds for 28% of Rover, or 800 million pounds by selling
the lot to BMW. A financial genius is not needed to see what BAe
would prefer. It is also a lot safer giving away the store, that
putting Rover on the open market, and completely ignoring the fact
the Rover was beginning to make some nice contributions into BAe's
bottom line.
Let us also look at the cretin who sold Rover. The chairman of BAe
can only step into the UK for 90 days a year. He does this for tax
purposes. His reasoning is purely selfish, and aimed at getting
BAe's share price up so he benefits. Someone who resides outside
of the UK for the rest of the year is certainly not going to be
interested in the British economy, long-term industrial thinking,
or the country's well-being come into play. They can go to hell as
far as he is concerned.
But, let us not entirely blame Mr. Cahill. BAe has had to fix its
balance sheet after some grave strategic mistakes (I don't know if
he was involved in these, so I am giving him the benefit of the
doubt <cough>) and operates in a market where high premium is paid
to dividend flow and immediate profit prospects. Mr. Cahill also
needs to think of all of those shareholders, usually mutual funds
and the like, who have tunnel vision on the weeks profit figures.
They too are completely unconcerned with any long-term stability.
Why didn't Rover become a BMW long ago? Basically the capital
markets, and their unending quest for short term gain killed
Jaguar/Daimler, Austin, Morris, Standard/Triumph, and Rover.
Unlike Volkswagen, BMW, Honda, Toyota, and the like, who's
shareholders were in it for the long run, the British financial
system made sure that Jaguars profits went as dividends rather than
the factory. Why else could the vice-president of Ford Europe
state after the takeover of Jaguar, when he visited their factory
for the first time "I have only seen one worse production facility
in my life, and that was in East Germany". Closer to home, the
drive for short-term profit denyed the Land Rover side of things
having additional monies invested in larger or newer production
facilities. Why did Land Rover lose its number one position in the
world? Better competors? Not a chance. It lost out because they
could never keep production up with the demand. When a customer is
faced with waiting six months for a Land Rover, or buying a Land
Cruiser today, many will pick the Land Cruiser. At least you can
replace it tomorrow when is dies. The fact that the Land Rover
probably won't die is inmaterial.
This process is what resulted in the banks refusing British
Phlegmsucking Leyland monies in the early seventies. The last time
these companies came cap in hand was in the 1930's when an
impending war forced the Lloyds and Midlands hand because of
strategic necessity in unning a war. After the war,
nationalisation only stemmed off the inevitable. One may blame the
unions for BL's problems, but management was just as bad, if not
worse. But they only acted as they should under the current
financial system.
The capital markets do not reward technical pre-eminence or market
share. They reward dividends and immediate profits. Usions? How
else should they act when they see the above? With management as
such a shining example of avrice, why not go for the higher wages
and their own short term gains.
Remember, after the war, BMC was the second largest auto
manufacturer in Europe. BMW made bubble cars, but I ramble...
Rgds,
Dixon "I need a BMW badge to paint a red line through for my 109"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 11:39:09 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: .. From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 22:24:24 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Hi, are any of you interested in model land rovers or military land rovers? If so please leave me a message Thanks for now. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 13:28:05 1994 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:21:35 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: model land rovers Status: RO From: Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca : >Hi, are any of you interested in model land rovers or military land >rovers? If so please leave me a message Thanks for now. Robin Craig I'm not as interested in model Land Rovers as in getting my 1:1 scale kit together, but yes, I will confess to an interest in models, as well. In fact, sitting on top of my monitor here at work is a Matchbox Series No. 12 Land Rover 'Safari' 109 S.W. That's from when Matchboxes were made in England. Perched up there with it is a Corgi Rover 2000TC. Also mad in Gt. Britain, that's the one with the spare tire on the trunk (boot) lid and the removable wheels. I have seen a couple of amazing collections of model Land Rovers. One was in Pennsylvania. I counted 99 different units in a display case, and when I remarked that I had bought one for my son that my host didn't have, he opened a drawer and brought put that one plus two or three others and drafted me to help him move the display case away from the wall so he could add them. Steve <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <---------------------------------------------------------->
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 13:50:53 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:41:25 -0500
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (j)
Subject: Re: model land rovers
Status: RO
>From: Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca :
>>Hi, are any of you interested in model land rovers or military land
>>rovers? If so please leave me a message Thanks for now. Robin Craig
>
First, I suppose I should say "Hello" as I'm new to the list. I am
currently having a 1971 Series IIa 88" partially restored by Roverworks in
Hyde Park, NY. The "updated" delivery date is "Spring." When it arrives
it will become my sole form of automotion. I'll post more details about
what I'm doing soon for your pleasure and commentary.
In regards to model Land-Rovers I am indeed somewhat interested, but only
as an offshoot of my interest in the "real thing."
I would like to locate one of the Corgi "Dak Tari" (sp?) Land-Rovers in
good to excellent condition. My aunt, who collected Corgis, had one of
these and I remember having a great time playing with it as a kid. Anybody
know of a source for this, or any other, Corgi L-R?
Thanks in advance and I look forward to being an active member of this group.
Regards
JAB
== ==
Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program
Technical Administrator New York University
berg@acf2.nyu.edu
=================
My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
Taste for the good life.
I can see it no other way.
Jimmy Buffett
== ==
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Feb 23 19:02:12 1994 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 17:49:52 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Corp Economics Status: RO Dixo pretty well pegged the situation. Unfortunately that short time gain way of thinking is very prevelant in the American telecommunications industry. The advent of the pie in the sky information highway is a good example. That is a long term goal that will take years to even come close to, if at all. US West, among others is going into reengineering with very short sighted objectives. While the CEO sits around and states in front of 80 craft workers that he makes 3 million a year and is worth it. I know he has his hand on the ripcord of a golden parachute. Well I digress also. To bad BAS has fallen to the same tired old, make the profits fast school of economics. No wonder Honda is mad and want's out. Is it possible that BMW has a more long range plan for Rover? Oh well. In the morning I will re-ground myself in the reality of Rovers and continue cleaning parts for the engine rebuild. Roy-Montana, Big Sky Country-Rovers in the Rockies
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 10:00:07 1994 From: "FS BECKWITH JAN" <BECKJAN@ucs.isu.edu> Organization: Idaho State University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 08:48:32 MST Subject: introduction Priority: normal Status: RO Introducing myself as a new member to the list. I am looking forward to learning more about Land Rovers! I inherited mine from my Grandfather and have had trouble finding anyone who knows what I am talking about, let alone who can work on it. Right now it is in pretty bad shape, but still runs when we can get it started. (I enjoy people's expressions when I crank it.) Grandpa called it a 1952 "Willy's" Rover. Does that mean anything or was he still referring to it asa jeep? I remember he bought it as part of a government surplus sale. It had a soft top-gone now. Seats are rotted. So we will be looking for parts. Jan Beckwith Pocatello, Idaho beckjan@ucs.isu.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 04:32:50 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: 1994 US National Land Rover Rally To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 03:24:58 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1659 Status: RO 1994 U.S. NATIONAL LAND ROVER RALLY In celebration of the -- * 10th anniversary of the Land Rover Owners' Association of North America, * 5th anniversary of the Solihull Society, and * 5th anniversary of Blue Ridge Land Rover Club, We invite you to join us for the 1994 National Land Rover Rally 14-21 August 1994 The rally is being co-sponsored by LROA, Solihull Society and Blue Ridge Land Rover Club. Four days of driving are scheduled:
From Grand Junction, Colorado; to Moab, Utah; to Durango, Colorado; to Alamosa Colorado and the Great Sand Dunes National Monument. Registration fee is (US) $35.00 until 15 July, and $40.00 thereafter. For more information and registration please write to: Rover Rally, P.O. Box 1238, Durango, CO 81302-1238 You may also call: Matt Tanner at 303-247-0703 David Ritchie at 304-422-0531 p.s. Please don't contact the undersigned about the rally. I'm just posting this for the benefit of those who will not see the announcement elsewhere, and I may not be able to provide any further reliable details. I don't know if Matt Tanner and Dave Ritchie have email access. I can offer this testimonial, after participating in the last two national rallies in the Rocky Mountains: the scenery is fabulous, the 4-wheeling is great, and the Rovers are the sexiest vehicles God ever invented! All three together make for an incredible ORGASM: Organized Rover Gathering in America's Scenic Mountains. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 00:27:22 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Corp Economics
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 23:47:59 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> in the American telecommunications industry. The advent
> of the pie in the sky information highway is a good example.
What a joke...
> To bad BAS has fallen to the same tired old, make the profits
> fast school of economics. No wonder Honda is mad and want's
> out. Is it possible that BMW has a more long range plan for
> Rover?
It will be interesting to see, assuming that the sale is approved
by all. While one would tend to think that this could spell bad
things for ROver, one must remember that BMW is not in good shape.
WHile there is the temptation to move production to Germany, labour
rates in the UK for auto manufacture are 50% of Germany's. If
anything, economics will dictate the opposite.
While there is the possibility that BMW may kill off some Rover
lines that compete head to head with their own products, they may
be intellegent enough to leave well enough alone. GM, FOrd,
Volkswagen all have differing model lines that compete head to head
with themselves. Looking at the bottom line, it really doesn't
matter if you buy the BMW or the Rover. The fact that they bought
one of them is all that matters to the combined company.
While I do not like the takeover for many reasons, it could very
well work. While other multi-national ventures have failed, Royal
Dutch Shell is a glowing example of what can happen if things go
right.
If I were BMW, I'd keep a sharp eye on the bottom line, ensure
quality stay up there, and let Rover build excellent cars. (I'd
even encourage the revival of some of the old marques like MG, keep
the Mini making profits too) Keep the workers and public happy, and
we may see Land Rover propping up BMW to an extent where the
company moves production to the UK to help their bottom line, and
may even sell Rover to some rich British company to bail themselves
out.
Besides, Honda might not be that pissed off. If I was Honda and
wanted to toss a spanner BMW's way, I'd have floated my 20% of
Rover on the London financial markets and watched the fun... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon "I'd have bought a share or two in Rover..."
Oh well. In the morning I will re-ground myself in
> the reality of Rovers and continue cleaning parts for the engine
> rebuild.
>
> Roy-Montana, Big Sky Country-Rovers in the Rockies
>
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 03:46:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Corp Economics Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 09:37:23 UNDEFINED Status: RO >To bad BAS has fallen to the same tired old, make the profits >fast school of economics. No wonder Honda is mad and want's >out. Is it possible that BMW has a more long range plan for >Rover? Oh well. In the morning I will re-ground myself in >the reality of Rovers and continue cleaning parts for the engine >rebuild. All of British industry and politics works short term. That's why we're now pretty much a third world country. I gather Landrover was (one of) the main reason for the takeover. BMW add a top 4wd range to their portfolio withot haveing to go thru all that expensive development stuff. Since Landrover have beeen pretty much isolated from the Honda side of things anyway, I'd guess LR are safer than the rest of Rover, who I'd give a couple of years (at most) after Honda pull out. Seems to me Honda have every reason to be well pissed off tho.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 04:36:42 1994 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Ve Haf Vays.. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 10:24:14 GMT Status: RO Interesting point about the BMW (gag,gag) takeover in the Guardian a couple of days ago.Article stated that Bum's Mothers had spent 2 BILLION quid trying to develop a 4X4,*and had failed*. So Land Rover was cheap at the price,wasnt it? One problem.Or two.Rumour has it that LR production will go to Germany,possibly East Germany.The other is that whilst our labour costs are less than German ones *at present*,as soon as they reach parity,what then?We really cant be expected to work for bugger all for ever. I must admit to having limited sympathy for the rest of the Rover Group, particularly after the looooong BL saga,when it was said(with justification) that "British Leyland appears to exist to give job satisfaction to graduate engineers,rather than to produce vehicles the public wants".It has taken a long time for all the badwill to be overcome,and even now saloon car design is somewhat underwhelming.Similarly,though,I have never seen the point of the BMW "hype".Perfctly ordinary run of the mill vehicle,visually dull, with overcomplicated engineering(which is *bad* engineering),and a nasty tendency to cylinder head warping if overheated.I suspect that they had *very* good sales team(triumph of marketing over design?),and that eventually began to beleive their own propaganda.The bubble has burst,at least here, "Youve got a BMW?So?",and the Rover range *has* improved no end. The whole thing pisses me off no end. BTW Steve,many moons ago when we were discussing tyres,I mentioned some Electricity Board 110's ecquipped with 15" wheels and big fat tyres.I've finally run one to earth.H reg Turbo Diesel 110 with BF Goodrich Mud Terrain T/A's all round.'Bout a grands worth of tyres on that Rover.And a winch.What price VAT on fuel?:-) Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 12:31:04 1994
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 11:10:31 EST
From: jbeckwith@sigma.simplot.COM
To: lro@stratus.com
Cc: jbeckwith@sigma.simplot.COM
Subject: Hi !
Status: RO
Hi !
So you're not confused my wife and I both have joined this discussion
group because we each have e-mail access from different locations.
Jan (my wife) is beckjan@ucs.isu.edu
I am Jack - jbeckwith@sigma.simplot.com
We are looking forward to sharing or "Land Rovers Owner" experience and
learning from you.
Thanks-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 11:34:00 1994 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 10:20:27 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Engine Rebuild Status: RO Well gang the engine from my 69 is at the machine shop and I finally have fiqured out what happen. The poor thing sat out for 4 days in -20 cold. Of course the battery was not up to turning the beast over so I hand cranked it. But I didn't think to crank it some to make sure the pump was picking up the 10/30 oil. One crank and it started. Bum deal. The oil wasn't getting up in the engine and very quickly the no.1 and no. 4 rod main bearing decided they didn't want to work without the oil. The crank will take a .10 over with no problem and the block will take a .20 over if the parts are available. I will be rebuilding the head complete and new bearings and bushings everyplace. I do have a question regarding the cam. There is wear, but no flat spots on the lobs. Can it be reground or will the grind change it enough that I will have more problems than what it is worth. I am not really looking to hotrod this thing. So, try a re-grind or go with a new cam? Right now I think that going with a new stock cam would be easier than having to deal with the results of a grind. Any suggestions will be appreciated and of course as they say your mileage will vary. Roy- Montana, Rovers in the Rockies under the Big Sky.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 13:16:34 1994 From: Jim.Knox@um.cc.umich.edu Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 14:04:04 EST To: lro@stratus.com X-Mts-Userid: W266 Status: RO If you have an e-mail list, please include me. Thanks. jimbo@umich.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 14:19:29 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: MAC <bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov>
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 24 Feb 94 12:57:53 EST."
<9402241757.AA24456@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 15:05:04 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> This brings up a point about block heaters.
The specific make block heaters sometimes replace freeze-out plugs.
More generic auto-supply heaters can be had which go in-line with a heater
or radiator hose.
------forwarded message ------------
| To: MAC <bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov>
| cc: car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOTE: if you reply is address to 'car-list-rejects' then the land rover
owners won't see it, only I will -- be sure your outgoing message is
addressed To: land-rover-owner@team.net thanks - bill
| Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
| In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 24 Feb 94 12:57:53 EST."
| <9402241757.AA24456@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov>
| --------
|
| Sorry to hear about your engine Roy. This brings up a point about block
| heaters. I am not sure if this has bee discussed here at all. Does
| Land Rover make them? If not, does anybody know if there are third party
| ones available? If not, does anyone have any ideas for making a homebrewed
| block heater. The one that I have seen is made for Saab's. I bolts on
| to the block and then you run a cord to an ac outlet. This is good if you
| have a garage or are close to ac power when you park. I am sure you could
| rig something to a second deep cycling marine battery that could be used
| in the field. Just flip a switch and let the engine warm for a while befor
| e
| you try to start it.
|
| Just some thoughts,
| Mike - Who doesn't own a Land Rover yet, but is learning alot from the list
| .
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 15:26:18 1994 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 14:13:54 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Valve Seats Status: RO As a result of my engine rebuild project I have a question that would be nice to discuss. At least for me. Would somebody make the case for putting in hardened valves seats on a head rebuild? I know that it was mentioned as a must, but why? Plus the question if you pay the bucks for stellite valves, do you have to put in new valve seats? Also the other case to be made is for putting it back to the factory specs, as it came from the factory? Thanks, Roy- Rovers on Strike in the Rockies
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 16:13:09 1994 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Valve Seats Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 14:04:01 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO Most Land Rovers that were built in the US ran on leaded gasoline. If you run these engine on unleaded the valves burn up. Now that leaded gas is not sold in most states, you can either buy lead additives that treat you gas (about $2 per tank) or put in the Stellite valves. After drving across the US, I found it really annoying to keep a supply of the additive. Luckily, I discovered that I had stellite valves. So I'd suggest putting in the stellite vavles for the convience of running on unleaded. I think the stellite valve guides are necessary, but I'm not sure. I don't know if Montana still sells leaded, but in my travels from NJ to California by Land Rover (7 cross country legs). I can only find leaded gas in New Mexico, Arizona and Pennslyvanie (I you look really hard.) And in about 107 days, I'll be driving back to NJ. (106 days to graduation!) -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 19:07:54 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR models and toys To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:12:34 -0700 (MST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <DNk7Hc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Robin Craig" at Feb 22, 94 10:24:24 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1861 Status: RO Hi, Robin et al. Yeah, I'm interested in model Land Rovers. It might help (if this discussion continues) to distinguish between model kits and "toys", even if those of adults who have some toys would rather call them something more dignified. My 10-year-old son and I collect both. Nominally they are his, but I'm reliving my childhood and helping with the kits. My son has quite a number of matchbox size Rovers. I was fortunate enough last summer to find the short-lived production of the Dinky 1949 AA MkI, so I bought us one each (very nice worskmanship). Years ago I had 2 Britains military 109s (ca. 1960 when Britains made high quality toys). A rear-mounted spare tyre controlled the steering. Unfortunately my sons lost both. (I'm a bit more careful now with "toys" that might be valuable collectors items.) Does anybody know if those Britains LR models can be found anywhere, and what the cost today might be? (I haven't seen them in "antique" toy collectors catalogs.) I am particularly interested in 1:35 scale model kits. A local hobby shop last week informed me that the Italeri no.258 SAS Pink Panther is the only LR kit of any kind on the market. Very sad, for not long ago, I bought the Italeri no.321 civilian LR 109. The parts are clearly interchangeable, and I was planning to buy a few of each for some creative mix and match. (No.258 is Ser.IIA with no doors, no roof, and no windshield; no.321 is Ser.III with soft top.) Does anybody know of a source for the apparently discontinued Italeri no.321? Does anybody know of other 1:35 LR kits currently available? For those of you who think toys and models are silly, you'll have to admit they're cheaper that the 1:1 scale. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 19:03:24 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: model land rovers To: berg@acf2.nyu.edu (j) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 16:24:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9402231941.AA15853@acf2.NYU.EDU> from "j" at Feb 23, 94 02:41:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 710 Status: RO Jeffrey Berg asks: > I would like to locate one of the Corgi "Dak Tari" (sp?) Land-Rovers in > good to excellent condition. My aunt, who collected Corgis, had one of > these and I remember having a great time playing with it as a kid. Anybody > know of a source for this, or any other, Corgi L-R? The last Rovers North holiday specials flyer advertised a Corgi Ser.III 109 with Coast Guard liveries for $12.75. (Also a police Rangey for $14.75). And well out of my range: pewter 1:48 scale 90, 110 and Rangey each at $85.00 (manufacturer not specified). T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 17:40:14 1994 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 15:26:17 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Valve Seats Status: RO In message <9402242113.AA27898@mtnoca.helena_noc> ROY CALDWELL writes: > > > As a result of my engine rebuild project I have a question > that would be nice to discuss. At least for me. Would > somebody make the case for putting in hardened valves seats > on a head rebuild? I know that it was mentioned as a must, > but why? Plus the question if you pay the bucks for stellite > valves, do you have to put in new valve seats? Also the other > case to be made is for putting it back to the factory specs, > as it came from the factory? > > Thanks, > > Roy- Rovers on Strike in the Rockies > Roy forget stellite valves. Seats are cheaper & I do not know if the special valves alone would keep you from sucking a valve on unleaded over time. The purpose of hardened valve seats is to keep your valves from burning when running for an extended time on very low lead or no lead petrol. If you have leaded petrol don't worry about it. If unleaded is all that you have to pour in your LR, and if you don't want to do a valve job once every two years or so (thats about how long the heads lasted in my Land Rover and my MGBGT) then you want hardened seats. On the other hand, its your head do as you wish TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 18:24:56 1994 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 94 16:13:12 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Valve Seats Status: RO ROY CALDWELL writes: > As a result of my engine rebuild project I have a question > that would be nice to discuss. At least for me. Would > somebody make the case for putting in hardened valves seats > on a head rebuild? I know that it was mentioned as a must, > but why? Plus the question if you pay the bucks for stellite > valves, do you have to put in new valve seats? Also the other > case to be made is for putting it back to the factory specs, > as it came from the factory? > > Thanks, > > Roy- Rovers on Strike in the Rockies Roy, Even if you can get leaded fuel today, you might as well resign your self to the fact that it's going away, soon. I recommend; Stellite valves Hardened seats Teflon valve seals (TRW) The reletive small cost is much cheaper that doing the head again, soon. And, a whole bunch cheaper than dropping a valve. On another subject. Any one out there in Rover-Land interested in a spin-on oil filter adapter for the mighty 2.25L engine? I have one of my own design on my engine. It has over 30K miles on it with no problems. The filter is one that is used on Ford 6.9L and 7.3L truck engines, so is BIG. Fram PH3766 is the one, availible everywhere for ~$10. What would you pay for the adapter? If there is enough interest I will go into production. Regards, Bill G.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 21:01:19 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 19:56:17 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> The specific make block heaters sometimes replace freeze-out plugs.
> More generic auto-supply heaters can be had which go in-line with a heater
> or radiator hose.
There is a block heater available the goes in the proper spot.
> owners won't see it, only I will -- be sure your outgoing message is
> addressed To: land-rover-owner@team.net thanks - bill
team.nat? Everything has always gone to stratus from here.
> | Sorry to hear about your engine Roy. This brings up a point about bloc
> | heaters. I am not sure if this has bee discussed here at all. Does
> | Land Rover make them? If not, does anybody know if there are third par
> | ones available?
From the OVLR January newsletter:
The miscellaneous part number for the month is for a block heater
for the 2.25l engine. At approximately $25 they can be obtained at
Canadian Tire. The Canadian Tire brand heater is actually a
Tremro, so the sometime questionable quality generally found at
Canadian Tire will not be a problem. The Tremro part number is
2200015. A useful addition if the leaking oil precludes the use of
propane torches to heat up the block in the middle of January or
February. For those who wish to know where it would hide, the
block heater installs slightly below the rear exhaust port. Be
warned, removing an old block heater or the plug may not be for the
faint of heart. They can really be wedged in there.
There are also inline heaters available that go in the lower rad
hose, and propane based heaters for those who are generally far
away from an AC outlet.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 21:00:40 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Valve Seats
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 20:08:58 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> As a result of my engine rebuild project I have a question
> that would be nice to discuss. At least for me. Would
> somebody make the case for putting in hardened valves seats
> on a head rebuild?
Because the heads on all Series I, II, IIA, III and 110's (up to
1984) were designed to use leaded fuel only. The lead tetra-ethyl
added to gasoline, originally during the war for aircraft engines,
acts as a lubricant and stops valve recession. Without hardened
seats, unleaded gasoline will cause the valves to recess into the
head and cause a rebuild to occur sooner than later. If you have
the thing apart and are doing a proper rebuild, get the hardened
seats put in. For those of us who do not have the hardened seats,
etc, it is not something to worry about as they do not get driven
enough to be a problem. For the daily drivers, it is something to
watch and get prepared for.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Feb 24 21:18:58 1994
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 1994 21:11:49 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: lro@stratus.com
From: hstevens@mgb.tiac.net (Henry Stevens)
Subject: valve seats
Status: RO
Canadians who operate older vehicles designed to run on leaded gasoline can
take advantage of an additive Shell puts into its gasoline that IT says
replaces lead.
Canada banned leaded gasoline a couple of years ago. Shell Canada put a lot
of money into a promotion called "Lead Ends" touting the fact that it's
gasoline contained additives designed to provide all of the benefits of
lead/prevent all the problems of going lead-free in older vehicles. (The
commercial featured an early Mustang convertible.)
I've been running Shell unleaded gas in my '64 MGB since leaded gas
vanished in the Great White North without any difficulty. Admittedly the
mileage covered has been low. I haven't heard of any problems resulting
from the use of Shell unleaded in cars designed to operate on leaded.
(Perhaps someone on the list from Canada can call the Shell Helps toll-free
line to get an update on this. The number is in all telephone books in the
country I beleive.)
I can't vouch for Shell Oil in the U.S., but I understand that Shell in the
UK tried to introduce gas containing this additive (the name escapes me)
quite a few years ago, to disastrous results. The exact nature of the
disaster also escapes me unfortunately.
While I realize the above information is vague (and by the way I'm not a
Shell employee), and doesn't help LR owners in the US if the additive is
not available here, I thought it was worth passing on.
================================================
,______________,
| | | hstevens@mgb.tiac.net
[|______|_______|] henry_stevens@bmugbos.org
/___/^^^^^^\___\
|(@) [####] (@)| present:
| o [####] o | '64 MGB roadster-Safety Fast
======%%%%======
{*}====={&&}={*} wish list:
{*} {*} LWB Land Rover-Best 4x4xFar
================================================
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 04:40:56 1994 Subject: Re: model land rovers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 10:25:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9402242324.AA22112@diana.cair.du.edu> from "T.F. Mills" at Feb 24, 94 04:24:09 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1265 Status: RO T.F. Mills writes: > > > Jeffrey Berg asks: > > > I would like to locate one of the Corgi "Dak Tari" (sp?) Land-Rovers in > > good to excellent condition. My aunt, who collected Corgis, had one of > > these and I remember having a great time playing with it as a kid. Anybody > > know of a source for this, or any other, Corgi L-R? > > The last Rovers North holiday specials flyer advertised a Corgi > Ser.III 109 with Coast Guard liveries for $12.75. (Also a police > Rangey for $14.75). And well out of my range: pewter 1:48 scale 90, > 110 and Rangey each at $85.00 (manufacturer not specified). These sound like the Land Rover Parts pewter models. BTW they also do a crystal Range Rover, and I have seen (all be it very tatty) 1.1 scale examples cheaper :-) > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu or tomills@diana.cair.du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 09:50:06 1994
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 10:34:19 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
Subject: Lead 'n' heads
Status: RO
Greetings from ROAV!
With regard to the continuing discussion on stellite valves, hardened
seats, etc., there are low-bucks options. Lead did a number of things: it
lubricated the valve guides, boosted octane ratings, cushioned valve seats,
poisoned the environment, etc. Unleaded fuel burns a bit differently, in
that there is residual oxygen in the exhaust to bind up/burn noxious
chemicals like carbon monoxide and nitrous compounds. (Running with too
lean a mixture will do the same thing.) The excess oxygen is analogous to a
cutting torch, in that high-speed gas cutting (valve recession) will occur.
If you can't go with stellite exhaust valves and chrome hardened seats, try
"ReLead" a lead substitute intended for marine engines. A pint can costs
<$9 and treats 160 gal @ 1 oz to 10 gal. I made a little jigger out of
copper pipe and chained it inside the filler pipe so it always handy.
Another option is the "Ampco" top cylinder or vapor lubricator, a
throw-back to early fifties cars. It injects Marvel Mystery Oil just below
the carb. Paranoid about valve seat wear, and I do alot of Interstate
driving, the worst for valve seat recession, I use both. With 50,000 miles
on an engine rebuild (200,000+ total miles) cylinder compression is 170#.
Book value is 165#, so the stuff works. Later, gang....
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 09:50:04 1994
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 10:40:24 -0500
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com
From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg)
Subject: Re: model land rovers
Status: RO
tomills@du.edu writes:
>
>The last Rovers North holiday specials flyer advertised a Corgi
>Ser.III 109 with Coast Guard liveries for $12.75. (Also a police
>Rangey for $14.75). And well out of my range: pewter 1:48 scale 90,
>110 and Rangey each at $85.00 (manufacturer not specified).
>
Thanks for the lead. I just called Rovers North and they're all out for
the moment. They'll restock around Christmas time. Until then my hunt
continues...
Regards.
JAB
== ==
Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program
Technical Administrator New York University
berg@acf2.nyu.edu
=================
My garden is full of papayas and mangos.
My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos.
Taste for the good life.
I can see it no other way.
Jimmy Buffett
== ==
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 11:03:48 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: The Ten Best Tools In the World Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 11:03:00 -0500 From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> Status: RO Sent to me after a few forwards, originally posted in brit-cars...
>From the Morris Minor registry...
>From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
[This was included in the membership materials received from the
Morris Minor Registry. Thanks to Berry Kercheval for scanning and OCRing it.]
------- Forwarded Message
THE TEN BEST TOOLS OF ALL TIME
By J. William Lam, Stockton, CA
There are only ten things in this world you need to fix any car, any
place, any time.
Forget the Snap-On Tools truck; it's never there when you need it.
Besides, there are only ten things in this world you need to fix any
car, any place, any time.
1. Duct Tape: Not just a tool, a veritable Swiss Army knife in stickum
and plastic. It's safety wire, body material, radiator hose,
upholstery, insulation, tow rope, and more in one easy-to-carry
package. Sure, there's a prejudice surrounding duct tape in
concourse competitions, but in the real world everything from Le Mans -
winning Porsches to Atlas rockets uses it by the yard. The only thing
that can get you out of more scrapes is a quarter and a phone booth.
2. Vice-Grips: Equally adept as a wrench, hammer, pliers, baling wire
twister, breaker-off of frozen bolts, and wiggle-it-till-it-falls off
tool. The heavy artillery of your toolbox, Vice Grips are the only tool
designed expressly to fix things screwed up beyond repair.
3. Spray Lubricants: A considerably cheaper alternative to new doors,
alternators, and other squeaky items. Slicker than pig phlegm.
Repeated soakings of WD-40 will allow the main hull bolts of the Andrea
Dora to be removed by hand. Strangely enough, an integral part of these
sprays is the infamous little red tube that flies out of the nozzle if
you look at it cross-eyed, one of the ten worst tools of all time.
4. Margarine Tubs With Clear Lids: If you spend all your time under
the hood looking for a frendle pin that caromed off the peedle valve
when you knocked both off the air cleaner, it's because you eat
butter. Real mechanics consume pounds of tasteless vegetable oil
replicas, just so they can use the empty tubs for parts containers
afterward. (Some, of course, chuck the butter-colored goo altogether
or use it to repack wheel bearings.) Unlike air cleaners and radiator
lips, margarine tubs aren't connected by a time/space wormhole to the
Parallel Universe of Lost Frendle Pins.
5. Big Rock At The Side Of The Road: Block up a tire. Smack corroded
battery terminals. Pound out a dent. Bop nosy know-it-all types on
the noodle. Scientists have yet to develop a hammer that packs the raw
banging power of granite or limestone. This is the only tool with which
a "made in India" emblem is not synonymous with the user's maiming.
6., Plastic Zip Ties: After twenty years of lashing down stray hoses
and wired with old bread ties, some genius brought a slightly
slicked up version to the auto parts market. Fifteen zip ties can
transform a hulking mass of amateur-quality rewiring from a working
model of the Brazilian rain forest into something remotely resembling a
wiring harness. Of course, it works both ways. When buying used cars,
subtract $ 100.00 for each zip tie under the hood.
7. Ridiculously Large Standard Screwdriver With Lifetime Guarantee:
Let's admit it. There's nothing better for prying, chiseling, lifting,
breaking, splitting, or mutilating than a huge flat-bladed screwdriver,
particularly when wielded with gusto and a big hammer. This is also the
tool of choice for oil filters so insanely located they can only be
removed by driving a stake in one side and out the other. If you break
the screwdriver - and you will, just like Dad or your shop teacher said
- who cares? It's guaranteed.
8. Bailing Wire: Commonly known as MG muffler brackets, bailing wire
holds anything that's too hot for tape or ties. Like duct tape, it's
not recommended for concourse contenders since it works so well you'll
never replace it with the right thing again. Bailing wire is a
sentimental favorite in some circles, particularly with MG, Triumph,
and flathead Ford set.
9. Bonking Stick: - This monstrous tuning fork with devilishly pointy
ends is technically known as a tie-rod- end separator, but how often do
you separate tie-ends? Once every decade, if you're lucky. Other than
medieval combat, its real use is the all purpose application of undue
force, not unlike that of the huge flat-bladed screwdriver. Nature
doesn't know the bent metal panel or frozen exhaust pipe that can stand
up to a good bonking stick. (Can also be used to separate tie-rod ends
in a pinch, of course, but does a lousy job of it).
10. A Quarter and a Phone Booth:
See #1 above.
PRINTED COURTESY OF THE MORRIS MINOR REGISTRY
------- End of Forwarded Message
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 10:43:20 1994 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 08:26:22 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM, rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Valve Seats Status: RO In message <9402250013.AA02469@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> William L. Grouell writes: > On another subject. Any one out there in Rover-Land interested in a spin-on > oil filter adapter for the mighty 2.25L engine? I have one of my own design > on my engine. It has over 30K miles on it with no problems. The filter is one > that is used on Ford 6.9L and 7.3L truck engines, so is BIG. Fram PH3766 is > the one, availible everywhere for ~$10. What would you pay for the adapter? > If there is enough interest I will go into production. > > Regards, Bill G. > Well I'm canster seal impaired, so I would be interested in putting a spin-on filter on mt LR. However, it should work properly and I don't want to have to sell the Land Rover to raise the money to pay for it. Do you have any guestimates in cost? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 12:31:24 1994 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 10:22:33 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: 1994 US National Land Rover Rally Status: RO
>> From Grand Junction, Colorado; to Moab, Utah; >I went to Moab three years ago (I think) and am anxious >to do similiar again. Would recommend it to any LRO... If you are going to be near Moab I heartily recommend Canyon Lands Nat. Park. In CL north Laythrop Canyon and the White Rim Trail are excellent, in CL south try the Silver Stairs (Staircase?). Our 109 handled all of it with little problem. -Pete-
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Feb 25 11:59:17 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: 1994 US National Land Rover Rally To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 11:43:39 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9402241024.AA08158@diana.cair.du.edu> from "T.F. Mills" at Feb 24, 94 03:24:58 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1068 Status: RO > 1994 U.S. NATIONAL LAND ROVER RALLY > Four days of driving are scheduled:
> From Grand Junction, Colorado; to Moab, Utah; > to Durango, Colorado; to Alamosa Colorado and > the Great Sand Dunes National Monument. I sent my money in last night and I am going. I have some time to fix a couple of Lulu's problems. Put my first such problem-repair order in this morning... If others are going from the mid-west or east-coast, maybe we could organize an LRO convoy. There is safety in numbers. Send me private email if you want to discuss on the side. I went to Moab three years ago (I think) and am anxious to do similiar again. Would recommend it to any LRO... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From CXKS46A@prodigy.com Fri Feb 25 16:19:35 1994
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 17:17:47 EST
From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE)
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Re: 1994 US National Land Rover
Status: RO
Ray-
A convoy sounds like a good idea, but Colorado is one heck of a long haul
from the right coast. I've done it in three days...and three solid days in
88 is enough to send even the most ardent drivers around the bend!
Would suggest you get a copy of the late Edward Abbey's book "Desert
Solitaire"...it has one particularly rousing reference to Rovers...and much
general, desert travel wisdom as well. Several of his other works (novels)
are set in and around Maob. Take care....
*----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----*
| |
| Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia |
| E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |
| Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) |
| 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA |
*------------------------------------------------------*
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 26 18:07:39 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: TOYS / MODELS ETC From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 26 Feb 1994 11:07:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, I hoped that I would turn up a few closet collectors and model makers when I posted my message the other day, I was right. I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer for some military land rover enthusiast response. I am a bit new to the system and am fumbling (Dixon will verify) around with this mailboard system, so bear with me if you dont get a reply with you name on it, the answer will probably be in there somewhere along with an answer to somebody elses question. We'll take things slowly for the minute OK?! I do collect toy Land Rovers along with a good friend of mine Andy Graham. When I came to Canada it was after enquiring at a local hobby store if they stocked Land Rover models that they fessed up that one of their customers had a standing order for anything Land Rover wise. I was given his phone number and we met. He introduced me to Ottawa Vallye Land Rovers (OVLR). Like the fool I am I got involved with the club and made some good contacts. we used to go off raod alot and went through a dry spell and now th club is once again getting vibrant again. I have been president of the club for awhile and involved with the newsletter for a gods age. Infact it is only McDermott (local legend) who has written longer. I have and am again writing a monthly column called General Service. You will have seen this coloumn reproduced on this system recently. Perhaps Dixon our current editor will post it on a regular basis (This is my OK Dixon). There is a big difference between model and toy Land Rovers but I collect them all. Andy collects Range Rovers aswell. I dont. I collect meodestly, original and photocopies of Land Rover brochures etc. I am in touch with anumber of people who are either collectors suppliers or manufacturers or suppliers of toys and models. Model making of Land Rovers and military Land Rover slide collecting and information gathering being my main interests, secondary to collecting toys that is. I will attempt over the coming weeks to post as much model and toy information that I have with names and contacts etc. If you have a question, post it on the system and I'll get back to you, I capture the messages to disk and look into them in depth later. I notice that Ted Rose did not acknowledge that he is a collecting junkie of sotrs too. Even our friend Dixon is a modest collector now having been given a bunch of extras that I had afte he and Dale came over the other night to rumage through things at my place. Basically I would try to make a definition (am I setting myself up to get taken down or what!) as to the difference. A toy was designed as a childs play item. A scale model kit was designed to be put together by the purchaser. A collectible was designed by someone who knows how tro make money out of our interest for the reduced Rovers. Each of the above general types can be broken down into many sub headings such as toys, pre finished or snap together etc. The model kits can be plastic, resin, white metal, mixed mediums ie resin and white metal, resin conversion kits etc, get the picture folks?! My toy collection is not of "mint and boxed" ones only. I will buy /collect any Land Rover I do not have regardless of the condition. In the future if i find one that is better and I cant see anything else around perhaps I'll buy it or I'll use that money (and gods theres little enough of it) to buy another on that I dont have. I did at one stage have over 250 different toys alone. My collection shrank for variuos reasons and currently is at the 200 mark. Between andy and myself we have over i would say 500 different ones. Ikeep mine in a display cabinet in the house on full display. One day i must get a trap door rigged up in front of it for all those visitors who come in and say "what a lovely collection of jeeps!" . My model making of the beloved aluminium ( my british descent creeping in again sorry) beast goes from 1:200 through to about 1:24 scales. I have a small stock pile of model kits and accessories and will be glad to help answer technical questions on making them. I also keep a listing of the model making articles relating to Land Rovers and am glad to send copies out to those interested provided I get coverage for the postage. I'm a typical cash strapped Land Rover junkie you understand. I will be putting on the board a complete list of models if anyone wants them. I am involved with the world of scale model making on a world wide basis and this connection is somewhat like the land rover underground in that things turn up in the most strange places from the unlikely of people. For whoever it was who was looking for the Daktari corgi, good luck. A mint condition specimne is likely to be accompanied by its box and will command upwards of $65 - 100 Can Dollars. They are available and I'll post later from where. For the minute Im trying (YES I can be ) to get some of you acquanted with me and what I can offer you plebs! And my unique way of writing. they SP's spelling mistakes are 'cos Dixon uses some weird system that wont allow us to back up the last line and I type with two fingers without looking at the screen. Also there is no dictionary or spell checking so just learn to live with it folks. I am eratic as to when I can get on the system 'cos the strife works weird hours and finds my computer time a waste of our 'time together". you know the situation. I'm not saying anything that i would'nt sya to her face by the way. Anyway the kidlets lump bump and stump need luch so Ive got to go for the minute but like a dad dream I'll be back. See you later boys and girls BYe the way if you were wondering, no I do not own a 1:1 Land Rover at the moment. I did for a short while but aht was another disaster in its self. I'm still sore from that one and I'll get even one day. I'm outa here ROBIN CRAIG 2821 H BAYCREST DRIVE OTTAWA ONTARIO K1V 7P6 CANADA 1 613 738 7880 (YOU CALL ME I'M ONLY WRITING THESE DAYS AS BELL AND I HAVE AN AGREMENT TO KEEP) -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Feb 27 04:41:15 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: TOYS / MODELS ETC
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 03:03:15 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) writes:
> Well, I hoped that I would turn up a few closet collectors and model
> makers when I posted my message the other day, I was right. I guess I'll
> have to wait a bit longer for some military land rover enthusiast
> response.
Excellent message, but to keep some of the list members happy I
should point out to you that there are a large number of messages
waiting for you. When you log onto the system, type "mail" to get
into your mailbox. There you will see even more messages, probably
on Land Rover models. I realise this is a painful way to tell you
that you have mail waiting, but at least I know you will read
this... :-) Besides, just wait until I put a real operating system
on here. DOS is like those Japanese automotive products,
Mainframes just like Detroit's. UNIX is just the thing for a Land
Rover owner...
Oh yeah, some Land Rover stuff... We started to put the 2.25l
engine back together today for George's 109 pick-up. It should be
in and ready to go tomorrow if we don't get another snow storm...
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, Don't be embarrassed. I flushed Dale out by asking about his
LugNut award... <grin>
PPS You can edit the previous line... Look up EDLIN in your DOS
manual. The editor here is pretty much the same. Bug Dale for
more info...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 26 00:33:26 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: valve seats
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 23:05:07 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
hstevens@mgb.tiac.net (Henry Stevens) writes:
> Canadians who operate older vehicles designed to run on leaded gasoline can
> take advantage of an additive Shell puts into its gasoline that IT says
> replaces lead.
It is my understanding that not only Shell uses this type of
additive. If they were the only company, I am sure that the would
still be pushing it in their advertisments.
> I can't vouch for Shell Oil in the U.S., but I understand that Shell in the
> UK tried to introduce gas containing this additive (the name escapes me)
> quite a few years ago, to disastrous results. The exact nature of the
> disaster also escapes me unfortunately.
Canada allows a number of additives that are either banned in the
United States, or are being examined by the American EPA. The most
common lead-tetra-ethyl additive used in Canada is one called MMT
(an abreviation for the proper chemical name). I understand that
this additive has caused a bit of controversy in other countries.
For myself, I always use the top grade gasoline in my cars, as do a
number of other British car owners. The difference in performance
with the Land Rover is quite noticable, even if the Swamp Beast
goes through the stuff at a rather fearful rate. Using the top
grade of gasoline will also keep the future maintenance tab down to
a more reasonable level.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 26 00:38:32 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Valve Seats From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 25 Feb 1994 23:15:12 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Feb 26 06:54:21 1994 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 94 10:08:06 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: Spin-on Status: RO > > Well I'm canster seal impaired, so I would be interested in putting a spin-on > filter on mt LR. However, it should work properly and I don't want to have to > sell the Land Rover to raise the money to pay for it. Do you have any > guestimates in cost? > > TeriAnn > Well, of course it works properly. What was that I read about the one that is available can be put on backwards and wreak the engine? No problems like that with mine. How about 75 bucks (100 loonies)? Mabe I'll give one to you, TeriAnn, so you can give glowing recomendations. R, bg
From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Wed Feb 16 18:17:18 1994 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 94 17:14:17 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Surplus Heaters Status: RO Ray, I talked to the lady at the shop today and she said all three could go out the door for 45 bucks each. Again all three are brand new in the box. But I realized that they are 28 volt at 6.5 amps. Being dc the only thing would be that it will run at about half speed. There is a fix but I can't remember what it is right now. One other is being thought about by Michael and I want one. The cod sounds possible, but let me see if I can get the other sold. I will let you know. Roy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 09:40:45 1994 From: "FS BECKWITH JAN" <BECKJAN@ucs.isu.edu> Organization: Idaho State University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:07:52 MST Subject: bookstores Priority: normal Status: RO We are going to London soon for a week - vacation, we are very excited - and wondered if anyone could recommend a bookstore that would be most likely to have Land Rover books. I have a pretty good list of bookstores, but there are so many! Jan Beckwith beckjan@ucs.isu.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 10:32:58 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "FS BECKWITH JAN" <BECKJAN@ucs.isu.edu>
Cc: lro@stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: bookstores
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Feb 94 08:07:52 MST."
<F0549C558D@UCS.ISU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:16:09 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> We are going to London soon for a week - vacation, we are very
> excited - and wondered if anyone could recommend a bookstore that
> would be most likely to have Land Rover books. I have a pretty good
> list of bookstores, but there are so many!
I didn't make it there, but a friend of mine recommended a model shop and
nearby bookstore in the vicinity of Picadilly Circus. (+/- a circus)
The model shop is on St. Martins, and up the street a few doors (left exiting
the model shop) is a pedestrian walkway (same side of the street) down that
and to the left is the book store specializing in motorsports. At least thats
from the little map he drew for me.
When I was there a couple weeks ago, I didn't spend any w/e in town (and was
working Hounslow during the week), so I didn't make it there. [I will next
trip though.]
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 12:07:04 1994
Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Mon, 28 Feb 1994 15:28:50 +0000
To: lro@stratus.com
From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" <IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk>
Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 15:28:27 GMT
Subject: Help -- Obediah is blowing #4 heater plug!
Priority: normal
Status: RO
I was out & about, playing in some snow (a rare sight around Edinburgh!)
over the weekend, and Obi. has started blowing the coil off the end of the
heater plug in number 4 cylinder.
Has anyone any thoughts on what has started this off? I suspect the
Ballast resistor -- but only 'cos the #4 plug is right next to it!
PS -- just how knackered is #4 piston going to be? (I'm afraid to look :-(
PPS -- I think Obi. might be going on strike too!
----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205
Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University.
#======================================================================#
Land Rover: A *BRITISH* car that was meant to survive the charge of an
adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially
a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. -- TeriAnn.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 12:04:10 1994 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 09:52:55 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Spin-on Status: RO In message <9402251808.AA11757@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> William L. Grouell writes: > > > > > Well I'm canster seal impaired, so I would be interested in putting a > > spin-on > > filter on mt LR. However, it should work properly and I don't want to have > > to > > sell the Land Rover to raise the money to pay for it. Do you have any > > guestimates in cost? > > > > TeriAnn > > > > > Well, of course it works properly. What was that I read about the one that > is > available can be put on backwards and wreak the engine? No problems like that > with mine. > > How about 75 bucks (100 loonies)? I was thinking between 45 & 55 but I haven't priced adaptors since forever. At 75, I can spill a LOT of oil and not get close to that price. You would have to make a convincing argument (Low volume costs, remote mounting & comes with stainless steel braded lines or whatever) and I'm not sure you'll sell many if any at $75. > > Mabe I'll give one to you, TeriAnn, so you can give glowing recomendations. Well thanks but It would feel too much like being bribed to give a glowing recommendation. I might take one & provide an independent observation of apparent quality, fit, instillation hassles etc. but I would want to reserve the right to say it suck if it does or it's something I couldn't live without or anything in between. > > R, bg TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 12:15:15 1994
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: lro@stratus.com
Cc: lcs@icad.com, ilk@x.org
Subject: Land Rover for sale: '69 IIa 88" $3000.
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 13:04:15 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
(My guess is the Canadians will think this expensive, but then this is
a stateside Landy.)
'69 IIa 88", 56,500 mi
+ Free wheel hubs
Station wagon hard top, rear bench seats
Mechanically good condition
(Inspected, registered, etc. in NYS)
recent work: water pump, GM altenator, various: wheel bearings, brake
lines, wheel cylinders, radiator clean & repair, hoses ,etc
rebuilt fuel pump, fuel line from tank, (used) rear diff
urgent needs: footbox work, (something to attach mud shields to)
Solid frame
recent work: outriggers
p.o.work: spring hangers
Body: blue/limestone top, black painted trim, usual dings & etc.
Extras: CB w/ K40 antenna (removable antenna, gutter mounted)
am/fm radio you can attach to whatever you want
Spares: Tyre, Rim, Jack, Hand crank & monster lug wrench
2 each backing plates including brake shoes
The other brake line
Transmission mount
Mud sheilds (both)
Axle bump stop
Windshield washer bag/pump
The other pr. of tie rod ends
Whatever else is under the drivers seat
(I already evicted the the mice.)
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
+--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Anybody want a lug wrench for 1" lugs (the idiots at DAP gave me that size,
I said, gee that looks small, and they said, no all the LR lugs are this
size).
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 15:59:44 1994
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 16:49:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Jan Hilborn <jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: re: Spin-on
To: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM, lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9402281752.AA23159@apple.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
A year or so ago after listening to me complain yet again about the
misery of changing my oil someone at RN suggested I consider a spin-on
system. I don't remember the price but it sounded worth it.
Until I thought about the additional waste - instead of just an icky,
oily cardboard canister every change suddenly I was going to be throwing
away an icky, oily *metal* canister. I wasn't keen on that at all.
Maybe this system is different.
jan and Witt ('58 and '67)
-oil leak? what oil leak? that's our own personal blackhole...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 16:24:59 1994 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 14:06:51 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu Subject: re: Spin-on Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO
> From jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu Mon Feb 28 13:49:37 1994
>
> A year or so ago after listening to me complain yet again about the
> misery of changing my oil someone at RN suggested I consider a spin-on
> system. I don't remember the price but it sounded worth it.
> Until I thought about the additional waste - instead of just an icky,
> oily cardboard canister every change suddenly I was going to be throwing
> away an icky, oily *metal* canister. I wasn't keen on that at all.
> Maybe this system is different.
> jan and Witt ('58 and '67)
> -oil leak? what oil leak? that's our own personal blackhole...
Two main advantages;
1) A *lot* better filtering to help keep the whole Rover out of the land-fill.
2) You can get the filter at your local discount auto-parts store.
R, bg
PS The metal canister is no more material than a couple of large soup cans.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 16:43:54 1994 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 14:32:04 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: re: Spin-on Status: RO > Two main advantages; Plus, 3) easy to hook up an oil cooler (not a big consideration for northern folks but it is for a desert runner with an overheating six). -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * bellas@gamma.tti.com *
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Feb 28 17:03:53 1994
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Spin-on
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 28 Feb 1994 14:06:51 PST."
<9402282206.AA20205@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 14:57:15 -0800
From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Status: RO
Just to add my $0.02...
A few years back, just after we got the Rover running for the first
time, we attended the Atlantic British Rally. Someone was selling the spin on
adaptors for about $50 (I think). We had has some problem getting the origional
oil filter can to seal so this adaptor was great.
The good part is that it takes a very common Fram filter which I can
find at any autoparts store. It's fairly easy to get on and off.
I do have some gripes about it. Because of its placement, to put on
or take off an oil filter I need to flex the metal brake line a bit. I *really*
don't like moving breaklines around. Aslo this filter is fairly close to the
frame. Now, the filter hasn't bumped the frame yet, but it's really close.
Another bad thing that I've been told, but not confirmed is that the
adaptors tend to decrease oil pressure by about 5 psi. This could be bad for
the engine in the long run.
Benjamin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 SIII 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Mar 1 06:55:31 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: toys models and bookstores in london From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 18:46:41 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO After receiving dixons little hint on the system I have now found all the messeages that you folks have been leaving for me. Thank you one and all. I will have detasiled answers to my mail senders soonest( once I work out to reply to you directly) . Is there any one out there who regularily reads BOB MORRISON'S column in LAND ROVER OWNER. I fso what do you think about it folks? What would you like to see more of? To Bill who seeks the London Book store I know there is one 'cos a mate of mine found it a while ago. Once I run him to ground and interogate him i'll get back to you. Where is everyone on the network these days? Have you folks all hibernated or are you all a bunch of lurkers who cant even sya hello? Lets get a bit of chit chat going here folks please. RONI CRAIG, 2821H BAYCREST DRIVE OTTAWA ONTARIO K1V 7P6 CANADA That should be ROBIN on the line above NOT RONI! 613 738 7880 message sent to system aprox 1852 est 28 02 94 -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Mar 1 06:55:47 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: scale reproductions of land rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 19:29:41 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just remembered folks, ROCCO who produce vehicles in 1:87 scale are releeasing a LIMITED run of land rovers again this year. They will be as follows:- oops cant find the *%^%)((&(** paperwork so will have to go by memory. all will be 109 station wagons either s2 or s3 depending, one will have the name of a gagrage on the side, SCHWARZ or something, the other will have a black and white paint scheme similar to the lions of longleat splinter pattern. The last will be a plain vehicle towing a hosre box/trailer. I will give you the model numbers when the brochure surfaces from the sedimentary filling system. I have dealt with JOHN PARKER of john parker off road models at the following address:-john parker, 6 cherry road, the elms, chipping sodbury, nr bristol, bs17 6hj great britain. you can have a shot at talking to him on 44 454 321502. Please tell him where you discovered his aname and address. He has quite the selection. A word of caution. JOHN IS dsylexic but a TREMENDOUS guy to deal with. Make contact and let us know how things go folks. More later people "A crescent wrench is to limey what a socket set is to the rest of you" Robin Craig 1994 "Every tools is a hammer except a chisel which is a screw driver" Peter Hansen 1993 -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Mar 1 06:56:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: rocco reduced land rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 22:39:41 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Greetings people, 'tis I again. Just found that copy of the rocco catalogue and thought I would give you guys the numbers for those scale reproductions now as they are to hand. Nothing tlike the present is there? SCHWARZ GARAGE 109" IS 3 1585 ZEBRA STRIPE (I KNEW THERE WAS A DESCRIPTION OF IT) 109" IS # 1720 109"WITH HORSE BOX (MICHEL BERTRAND SHOULD GET ONE OF THESE FOR MARIE CLAUDE) IS # 1709 You should order these now as they are a limited run and Rocco material can be difficult to get hold of. In the valley area call 613 749 5245 which is hobby house and ask to order these. Tell them that Robin Craig told you to call. Expect to pay $6 or 8 for the vehicles on their own and maybe about $15 for the horse box one. If you dont live in the valley and are in the NSM or USA then go to any store that stocks lots of model railway gear. ask if they have the ability to order it >Rocco and trains go hand in hand usually as the vehciles are sized for railway layouts. Alternativley I will have a couple spare when these come out , which by the way wont be for a number of months to come. patience is a virtue people.. Thats it for the minute unless I can think of anything else tonight. robin craig land rovers. the man sized meccano sets for real people [D, me 5 minutes ago! -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Mar 1 06:55:54 1994
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Land Rover for sale: '69 IIa 88" $3000.
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 23:21:00 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> (My guess is the Canadians will think this expensive, but then this is
> a stateside Landy.)
Actually, from the description, and if the frame is nice and solid,
this is a reasonable price for what you are asking. For the price,
this is cheap by American standards. A good solid Land ROver
should get this, or more, when sold. That the footwells are a bit
rotten is really no matter. That is just a bit of tin, and either
replacement (or homemade) panels are cheap and easy to put in. Put
it this way, if I wasn't here in Ottawa and I wanted a Land Rover,
I'd consider buying it.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Back
to the
Infobahn AtlasPosted text Copyright 1994-1997 the original author or Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.
Photos & text Copyright 1994-1997Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.
Page Created: 13 jan 1997
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