From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 1 01:29:17 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Trouble and Strife
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 22:13:25 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> I drank much beer.
Which you followed up with a party Saturday evening with much more
beer, southern comfort, multiple showings of "The Gods must be
Crazy"... :-) :-) :-)
See you Friday evening at the Christmas party...
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, You hid your new springs rather well. We never managed to
find them. Even Ted was at a loss, even after your high-tech
exercise bike shut down and announced that he was dead...
ROFL! So, like, where were they? :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 1 01:28:57 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Series III brake/clutch questions
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 22:07:27 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> I need a bit of assistance from you series III owners.
Some questions... (Ted and I went over this message this evening,
but are going to wait until daylight to go over his III to give
details)
> 2. Does the clutch master cylinder's fluid resevoir sit up against the bulkhe
> or is it turned in the same direction as the brake cylinder with the resevoir
> closest to the radiator?
Are you using a III clutch assembly, or are you using the IIA with
the canister resevoir?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 1 01:28:57 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Series III brake/clutch questions
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 21:58:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk writes:
> Bleeding brakes on a land rover is usually a pain, but here are a few tips
> passed on to me by a franchised dealer in the UK.
Very interesting... The leading and trailing shoes are all
correct, we made sure of that when we put the entire system
together. All of the wheel cylinders are new, along with the brake
shoes. However...
> Second, invest in three hydraulic hose clamps. Clamp off all hoses - if you
> still have a spongy pedal the master cylinder (or less frequently, the servo
> if you have a remote servo) requires attention. <etc>
This I found very interesting. I had never thought of doing this,
and will make the investment in the required clamps. The easybleed
system I have heard much of from friends and on the British-Cars
mailing-list. However, short of ordering one from the US (I tend
to be lazy at times), I have never seen one here in Ottawa.
Overall, an excellent synopsis of how to go about bleeding brakes.
Thx,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 30 18:35:24 1993 From: Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Series III brake/clutch questions To: lro@stratus.com (Landy List) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 08:35:16 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <wLVTDc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "dixon kenner" at Nov 30, 93 07:37:55 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1910 Status: RO > > Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> writes: > > > I travelled half way around Australia thinking my brakes were shot (as > > it was they were partly) because I always had to pump them. I had > > gotten used to it until a mechanic told me it was a problem and TRIED to > > fix it....he fixed it and the improvement lasted about a week!! > > What was his fix that lasted a week? > > Rgds, > > Dixon One of the cylinders was seizing because (I think from memory) the cup was all chewed up. He didn't replace it though - instead he got it rebored (?? can you do this ??). For a week the brakes worked great (except for the aforementioned "pumping syndrome") and then they started to pull to one side again?? By this stage however I was some 2000 kms down the road in sunny Queensland!! Incidentally I have a question (or two) about the LR!! I have since sold it so the answers need not be too detailed but out of interest: 1. On Fraser Island (big sand dune island off Qld coast - great place) the old girl kept slamming (dropping but LOUDER and HARDER) out of reverse when in 4wd. She would only do this when under load : ie: backing uphill or in sand. A similar thing would happen when engine braking in second down steep slopes (dangerous!!). Any hints why? 2. The gbox was replaced but did not fix this problem (but did fix some others like grinding noises etc).....the transmission was still incredibly noisy (even for a Landy). Depressing the clutch removed part of the noise and it was worst when engaged in forward gears and travelling.....????? Anyhow Cheers Mark. ***************************** Mark Keenan - mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au MEngSc Student in the Mech & Mat Engineering Department University of Western Australia, Nedlands WA 6009 Landrover - Noisy uncomfortable vehicles for noisy uncomfortable people *****************************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 06:34:37 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 12:33:27 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199311302238.AA20965@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> from "Paul Hester" at Nov 30, 93 04:38:35 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1176 Status: RO > I am interested in learning about who the actually manufacturers (not > just distributors) are and of any variance in quality of the frames they > offer (or how complete they are). Anyone have the skinny on this? i.e. > are there some one should steer clear of vs. more desirable ones? I have been told by the parts manager of a certain UK franchised dealer, who shall remain anonymous, that of the available replacement chassis only those made by Steve Walker Land Rovers and Marsland Chassis are worth considering. Both are advertised in LRO. Best of all, of course, is to buy a new genuine Land Rover chassis, assuming that they still make one suitable for your vehicle - one is available for my 1970 109 - and you can afford the 1500+ pounds sterling. Admittedly, there is a strong temptation to go for the non-genuine replacement, not only because of the fact that they cost around 1000 pounds for a LWB version, but also because for this money you get a galvanised chassis - strangely, Land Rover still do not galvanise their chassis even though it is this item more than any other which determines the amount of useful life left in a vehicle. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 1 20:22:45 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au Subject: Re: Series III brake/clutch questions From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 14:56:46 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO > 1. On Fraser Island (big sand dune island off Qld coast - great place) > the old girl kept slamming (dropping but LOUDER and HARDER) out of > reverse when in 4wd. She would only do this when under load : ie: > backing uphill or in sand. A similar thing would happen when engine > braking in second down steep slopes (dangerous!!). Any hints why? > I am not sure why, but I came to the same conclusion as you did, as the old ser III used to do this. I sold it. What you describe is exactly what happened to mine. I was told that there were two reasons for this, a worn spring, which is easy to fix, Or a broken gear. After checking the first, which was fine, I assumed it was the latter. > 2. The gbox was replaced but did not fix this problem (but did fix > some others like grinding noises etc).....the transmission was still > incredibly noisy (even for a Landy). Depressing the clutch removed part > of the noise and it was worst when engaged in forward gears and > travelling.....????? > Was the replacement gearbox new? If not, it may have had the same disease as the first. The only unusual noise from my current lr is a rattling gearbox lever and a worn throw out bearing Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 1 11:37:42 1993 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 93 09:34:41 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Series III brake/clutch questions Status: RO In message <5uZuDc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> dixon kenner writes: > "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes: > > > I need a bit of assistance from you series III owners. > > Some questions... (Ted and I went over this message this evening, > but are going to wait until daylight to go over his III to give > details) > > > 2. Does the clutch master cylinder's fluid resevoir sit up against the > > bulkhe > > or is it turned in the same direction as the brake cylinder with the > > resevoir > > closest to the radiator? > > Are you using a III clutch assembly, or are you using the IIA with > the canister resevoir? > > Rgds, > > Dixon > I have mounted the Series III master cylinder to a Series IIA clutch peddle assembly. There is no place to mount the orignal resevoir on the Series III power brake assembly. Besides, I want to put the original resevoir in the TR3. It's in better shape than the 3's. The IIA clutch peddle assembly puts the series III integral clutch resevoir against the bulkhead. The rear wing mounting bracket interfers with the removal of the resevoir cap. A talk with someone at Rovers North, and a brief phone conversation with Jim "Scotty" Howett, indicated that everything will work together, but the series III has cutouts on the rear wing mounting bracket and the top of the wing to provide access to the clutch master cylinder and clearence for the power brake assembly. I am trying to find out: 1. If the series III clutch peddle assembly places the master clutch assembly in a better position for access 2. What the series III wing cut out dimensions are for clearing the brake & clutch. I am looking for measurements based from the rear of the wing and the seam where the side of the wing connects. I plan to make the LR operational this weekend, one way or another & I would like to do it right. So any help with the above two questions would be greatly appriciated. Thanks, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 10:35:06 1993 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 16:34:21 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: galvanized chassis Status: RO >strangely, Land Rover still do not galvanise their chassis even though it is this item more than any other which determines the amount of useful life left in a vehicle. Does anyone know the source of RN's (and others) galvanized chassis? Are they the same as available through Merseyside? rdushin/nige
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 16:42:55 1993 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 93 17:40:35 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: frames (and their origin) Status: RO
>From jory... >someone was saying that atlantic british has their own frames welded >somewhere in new york, and that they were fairly out of spec, which sounded >like a real pain... I talked to one of the Mechanicsville, NY outfits about their frames (I assume it was AB at this point...). They actually have two different makes available now, at least one from GB that is in spec and (if I recall correctly) slightly less expensive than the RN frame. The other was less expensive still but he gave me a warning about having to 'adjust' various things to put it all together.... monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 16:14:50 1993 From: jory@MIT.EDU Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:18:25 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: frames (and their origin) Status: RO i was talking with charlie at rover's north, and asking where my frame (galvanized 88) which i used for my frame-up last summer came from if it wasn't a rover frame (if, as people on the list had said, LR doesn't offer a galvanized frame)... well charlie said that they get their galvanised frame from MARSLAND, the company which makes frames for LR, and that while MARSLAND can't sell un-glavanised frames due to their sourcing agreements with LR, that the galvanisation puts these frames outside of that... sounds a little convoluted, but i thought i'd pass it along... a few more tidbits about frames... i was complaining to rn after i had done my frame-up that i wish rover frames had removable transmission cross-members, useful for clutch jobs, etc, and lanny of rn said that they could get them, but that he never ordered them because they weren't original enough and would be unpopular on that account... i registered my preference for greater utility over strict originality, but too late for my rebuilt rover... someone was saying that atlantic british has their own frames welded somewhere in new york, and that they were fairly out of spec, which sounded like a real pain... my rover has no name, sex or gender...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 07:01:35 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: frames (and their origin) To: jory@MIT.edu Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 12:59:39 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312022210.AA12931@MIT.EDU> from "jory@MIT.edu" at Dec 2, 93 05:18:25 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 622 Status: RO > MARSLAND can't sell un-glavanised frames due to their sourcing agreements > with LR, that the galvanisation puts these frames outside of that... sounds If you read Marsland's ad in LRO, you will discover that Marsland *do* supply ungalvanised chassis, so where charlie got that idea from... > i was complaining to rn after i had done my frame-up that i wish rover > frames had removable transmission cross-members, useful for clutch jobs, > etc, and lanny of rn said that they could get them, but that he never The V8 engined Land Rovers produced from 1980 onwards all have removable gearbox crossmembers. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 06:25:57 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Frame Preservation To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 12:22:37 GMT Status: RO The accepted method over here to treat the inside of chassis members is to enlarge any holes that exist in the chassis(that is to say,those that are SUPPOSED to be there),and drill strategic holes where there arent any and to Waxoyl spray inside,using said orifices.I've never heard of any dissatisfaction with this procedure.Whilst diesel iol is highly penetrative it will dry out fairly quickly,and leave you with no protection,whilst Waxoyl doesnt,and stays flexible. One substance I *would* steer well clear of,personally,is underseal,which, IMO does more harm than good. Cheers Mike Rooth :wq
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 22:04:08 1993 From: "Greg J. Pryzby" <gjp@vtci.com> Subject: iJust got this address... Please add to the list To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 23:05:07 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 85 Status: RO Please add me to the mailing list. If this is the wrong addres, please let me know.
From caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 18:10:31 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: jory@MIT.EDU, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: frames oiling and paint refinishing
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Dec 93 17:05:16 CST."
<9312022305.AA12143@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 18:51:16 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
I've also read that the newer LR models have rm TX members
> The frame on my daily driver is sound (colorado car). I painted
> with a brush after wiping off the dirt and oil with kerosene.
> I do wish I could do something with the inside -- like diesel oil?
I think Dixon recenlty posted about the frame oiling 'parties' OLVR has,
my local body man uses oil mixed with rustproofing adjusted to the condition
of the vehicle
with old, hard rustproofing -- more oil in the mix will seep in and
make it pliable and rejivinate it, otherwise you'll just make the
coat deeper, and the new will fall off with chunks of the old...
Ok, anyone out there know about chemical paint stripping (like for body
panels) ?
I noticed that the undersides of most of my Rover's aluminum panels are
unfinished -- any suggestions on how to treat them and protect them ?
(I understand the basic paint process for Aluminum or Galvanized includes
preparing or 'etching' the metal to it will take the primer well.
I think this round I'll use PPG paints instead of Dupont, but I'm not sure.
-- bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 17:36:09 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Cc: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 02 Dec 93 12:33:27 GMT."
<9312021233.AA01248@it025.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 18:36:02 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> I have been told by the parts manager of a certain UK franchised dealer, who
> shall remain anonymous, that of the available replacement chassis only those
> made by Steve Walker Land Rovers and Marsland Chassis are worth considering.
> Both are advertised in LRO.
Seems like one of the US importers was advertising that they were
bringing in Steve Walker frames (galvanized and w/ removable gearbox
members too boot !)
> Best of all, of course, is to buy a new genuine Land Rover chassis, assuming
> that they still make one suitable for your vehicle - one is available for my
> 1970 109 - and you can afford the 1500+ pounds sterling. Admittedly, there
> a strong temptation to go for the non-genuine replacement, not only because
> of
> the fact that they cost around 1000 pounds for a LWB version, but also because
> for this money you get a galvanised chassis - strangely, Land Rover still do
> not galvanise their chassis even though it is this item more than any other
> which determines the amount of useful life left in a vehicle.
>From the Haynes Restoration book, the history (by the folks from Dunsfold) indicates that some of the early models (very few) had galvanized chassis. The folks from Merseyside want about 600 quid for a galvanized 88" chassis, I don't know any of the particulars though. Since I've yet to get LRO (just put in for it), could one of you folks lookup to see what Walker gets for such a chassis ? Thanks, -- Bill
From caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 17:30:25 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: m.turpin@ucl.ac.uk (Michael Turpin)
To: polstab@mizzou1.missouri.edu
To: shawnl@wordperfect.com
To: wpcallah@rwasic17.aud.alcatel.com (Paul Callahan)
Cc: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: Grettir Asmundarson <grettir@pension.provo.ut.us>
Subject: Welcome to the land-rover-owner list !!!
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 18:32:12 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Hi !
Welcome to the land-rover-owner list:
You should receive one copy of this message, directly.
For questions or submissions to the list send mail to
land-rover-owner@stratus.com
OR
lro@stratus.com
for administrative stuff, send to
land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com
OR
lro-request@stratus.com
This brings the number of subscribers to 70+.
We presently have subscribers from the AU, UK, FI, NO, CA (Quebec & BC),
and in the US, (Ca, Ut, Ny, Tx, Co, Pa, Ma, Mo, Wa, Or), who have Rovers
ranging rom a '59 109" to current 90"-V8s, military light-weights,
(US-spec) 110" Defenders, and Range Rovers.
(How about a 127", Disco or Forward Control ?)
Feel free to post an introductory note about you and/or your truck.
Traffic on this list tends to be rather light. (Like, I don't think there has
been a message in months, guess everyone is off roving...)
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
Ps thanks for waiting, I'm doing list add requests once every couple weeks.
PPS A subscriber to the list, Greg Hiner <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> has
started to compile a list of Land Rover Parts Suppliers (USA & UK), and
Land Rover Dealers, new and used (USA), if you are interested, please
contact Greg directly.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 17:13:55 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Cc: lro@stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Heaters
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 29 Nov 93 21:57:46 EST."
<Zq5sDc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 18:10:04 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> The rear now has ballast
> for those icey roads in the form of an engine and gearbox and other
> assorted heavy Land Rover parts. They should weigh it down far
> more effectively than bags of sand.
Yes, but you probably don't want to take a shovel full of LR parts and
throw 'em down on the ice for traction, eh ?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 17:12:51 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: frames (and their origin) To: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:05:16 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312022210.AA12931@MIT.EDU> from "jory@MIT.EDU" at Dec 2, 93 05:18:25 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2773 Status: RO > i was complaining to rn after i had done my frame-up that i wish rover > frames had removable transmission cross-members, useful for clutch jobs, > etc, and lanny of rn said that they could get them, but that he never > ordered them because they weren't original enough and would be unpopular on > that account... i registered my preference for greater utility over strict > originality, but too late for my rebuilt rover... Regarding the car I have in rebuild status: -- I did some welding on the frame -- put on a new rear cross member, added diagonal pieces to the outriggers that support the bulkhead (my 69 had those and to my understanding, so did some military frames). At that time, I noted that LRO magazine advertised frames with removable TX crossmembers and I heard that this was done on military vehicles, SO, I made my TX crossmember removable. I got 4 pieces of 3/16 plate with 4 neatly punched holes for inserting bolts and welded those suckers in so that the TX crossmember can be bolted in and out. -- I drilled with a saw attachment some 1" holes at strategic parts of the frame to allow zinc to flow thruout the frame -- and I had the whole frame galvanized. They charged about $0.20 per pound (I had paid $100 to have it sandblasted -- the alkyline bath removes paint poorly) for about $70 to have it galvanized. I told them to keep it in the alkyline bath and acid bath plenty long and I guess they did -- anyway I asked. -- When I got the frame back it looked good, but I thought it would look more origional if it were black. Acid prep solution to tone down the zinc and then 3 coats of DP90/DP401 which is a catalized acrylic primer (black). It looks good awaiting the rest of the rebuild, but hindsight says now I would have kept it unpainted and let the galvanize show. I have another frame that I am going to do the same to when it gets warm and I get caught up. This one doesn't need a cross-member but the previous owner liked to hit stumps and rocks and some of dents need to be hammered out. The frame on my daily driver is sound (colorado car). I painted with a brush after wiping off the dirt and oil with kerosene. I do wish I could do something with the inside -- like diesel oil? The crossmember needs to get a patch and a little straightening and that will come with warm weather, too. Anyway, 5pm. Time to fight the crowd.... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 2 21:23:28 1993 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@stratus.com Subject: British Police Lose to Range Rover Date: Thu, 02 Dec 93 19:17:39 Status: RO lockup your Rovers in case there are any copycat crimes out there... | Blues Brothers, UK style ... | | I don't know if anyone read a story in their Saturday morning tabloid about | a 3 hour chase around High Wycombe and surrounding towns which resulted 9 | [NINE!] police cars being totalled by three joyriders in a Range Rover. | What was printed in the papers was pretty astonishing (for many reasons); | however, it's not quite the full and unexpurgated story. I live in Wycombe, | and about 0200 on Friday morning I was woken up by a jellywopper hovering | low over my house and waving a searchlight about in my general direction; | obviously the police, and it worried me enough that I went and dug out my | old FM airband radio to see if I might discover what kind of gun toting | psycho they were looking for in close proximity to my front garden. As a | result, I listened into the whole incident in it's un-glossed form; the | police don't come out of it smelling of roses. | | The lunatic driving the Range Rover was obviously an excellent driver; | bloody good job, too, because if he hadn't been he would surely have been | through the side of someone's house, the speeds he was being chased at. As | it was, the only thing he hit all night were police vehicles, all of them | deliberately. After three hours every high-speed traffic jam sandwich for | miles around, including the local armed response vehicle, was a pile of | twisted metal. The police were reduced to following in their bottom-of- | range Astra panda cars, or more accurately hiding from the Range Rover | which had gone from pursued to pursuer; I heard one car calling in an | asking if it was safe for him to drive up the A40. As soon as the | helicopter ran out of juice, they lost the Range Rover... | | The Metropolitan plod come out of this really well (not); they wouldn't | lend Thames Valley another helicopter to continue the pursuit. At no time | during those three hours did they apparently think of calling up Range | Rovers, or Landy Discoveries from adjacent areas to ram or box in the Range | Rover; instead they just aimlessly chased it around the area at breakneck | speed. If they couldn't catch it, why on earth were they chasing it and | risking their, the thieves, and many other peoples lives in the process? | | Anyway, the newspapers DIDN'T mention that not all of the police vehicles | were trashed by hitting the Range Rover; at least two of them hit each | other in severely embarrassing circumstances, and a third very expensive | traffic car, provided like the others by the polltax payers of this fair | county, disappeared down a bunker on the 18th fairway at Flackwell Heath | Golf Course while pursuing the Range Rover thereupon. | | What really concerns me, though, is the police justification for the whole | incident. The car sped through a speed trap in Wycombe; fair enough, I | wasn't listening to the chase then. The police also allege, in the paper, | that 'The three occupants of the car could be seen taking drugs while they | were driving along'. I presume that this is designed to lend weight to the | police argument that apprehending these people was worth the risk to life | and limb, not to mention the entire new vehicle budget for Buckinghamshire | this year and next. But all I can say to that is 'B*ll*cks'! The police | couldn't even see their faces well enough to describe them, let alone 'see | them taking drugs'. Unless they were shooting up with their arms out the | window, I don't know how they could have. A Range Rover is four feet above | a cop car anyway, so they'd have a job seeing anything going on inside, | and the way this guy was driving, it was very unlikely he was on anything | except, just conceivably, speed. | | Besides, I was listening to the whole thing and I didn't hear drugs | mentioned once in all of the commentary or discussion from the police in | the two hours I was listening. My conclusion: They're making that bit up. | Inspires confidence doesn't it? | | You couldn't have made a film about this; this is High Wycombe, not | Hazzard County. What exactly do we pay our police for? Is it enough that | they risk their lives, as they clearly were here, or do we require that | they do it competently, and to a purpose, and cost effectively, without | risking our lives as well? Or perhaps it is that they behave like the | Keystone Kops, as they did on Friday morning... And what, dear reader, | would have happened if any really significant crime had been committed in | Bucks on Friday morning, while the ARV, and most of the other Police Cars | were gaily sticking out of the scenery in and around the High Wycombe | area? | | The final result of this sorry debacle, of course, is that the driver of | the Range Rover is going to be a real hero among his friends. After all, | Smokey and the Bandit has nothing on him... even I can't help but have a | sneaking admiration for the little toe rag, so his peer group will have no | trouble. We will now be invaded by hoardes of his pals, probably less able | than him, all keen to be a hero like him. People will be injured, or even | die as a result of all this. No doubt the police will then bleat about how | they need more resources and more powers and more this and more that... how | about new commanders, new training, new objectives and new brains?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 08:56:15 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: frames (and their origin) To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Fri, 3 Dec 93 14:55:27 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312031259.AA00332@it055.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at Dec 3, 93 12:59 pm Status: RO V8 engined Land Rovers may well have had removable X members,*but* they werent exported to the US.And is it not therefore possible that a concern like RN wouldnt know about them,and that even if they did,it is entirely possible that due to different engine mounting arangements etc,they were not compatible with the 2.25 109"? Mind you,a demountable gearbox X member is a *bloody* good idea. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 10:02:38 1993
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: frames (and their origin)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Dec 93 14:55:27 PST."
<9312031455.AA23225@hpc.lut.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 07:59:15 PST
Status: RO
In message <9312031455.AA23225@hpc.lut.ac.uk> you write:
> Mind you,a demountable gearbox X member is a *bloody* good idea.
Demountable gearbox crossmembers are a good idea if the car in
engineered properly. (I assume LR got it right) But I have a story about
removable gearbox crossmembers on Suburbans.
Last year, a bunch of my freinds were taking a Geology course at Caltech.
The course included a 5 day field trip into Baja, Mexico. The only people
with off road experiance was the prof and the Teaching Assistant and there
were 5 vehicles (4 Suburbans and a Land Cruiser). So I was asked to drive.
I immediately grabbed the Land Cruiser (to compare it to my SIII 88).
It was a fine car, except that two of its tires went flat during the trip.
Anyway, on the 4th day, towards dusk, after driving all day on washboard, the
lead Suburban stopped due to a flat. (The driver didn't notice before
completely shreding the front tire and killing the rim.) So While we were
stopped for some reason we popped the hood and looked in. The V8 was leaning
back and resting against the firewall. The TA and I were confused for a while.
Finally in the failing light we crawled underneigth and found that the
removable gearbox crossmember had cracked on one side near the bolt holes.
The gearbox was hanging about 4 inches too low. The rest of the group
went looking for a place to spend the night. To temporarily fix the problem,
I took the winch cable out of the hawse and threaded it over the frame. I
manages to thread the cable through a hole in the from to give me the angle to
lift the broken side of the crossmeber up. Then I carfully tightened the
winch. So in the dark we slowly drove the Suburban the 1 mile to the
campsight. The fix held.
After dinner an a beer, the TA and I went back to our problem truck.
We were still a couple hundred miles south of the US boarder an at least 50
miles from pavement. And we didn't want to abandon the vehicle.
The crossmember (from the side looked like this:
| |
V V
--------
| |
-----| |-----
^ ^
| |
The two arrows on top were the bolts whose holes had broken off. But we had
the two outer holes. I notices that the HiJack that we carried had regular
spaced holes. So the I beam part of the HiJack was cannibalized. The bolts
from the upper/inner holes were used to bolt the I beam to the outer holes
(which did not have thier own bolts) The next step was to find some
longer bolts to bolt the Ibeam from the HiJack to the frame of the truck.
I had failed to bring my tool kit on the trip, so I didn't have the
assortment of stuff that I usually carry. So se had to decide what part to
cannibalize off the truck to get bolts the right size. The front end of a
Suburban has two shock aborbers on each side, and we figured that one was
enough.
So the whole mess ended up looking like this:
frame
==========I==========================I==================
I -------- I
I | | I
I --I--| |--I-- I
====I=======I============I=====I==== Ibeam
where the I's are bolts. It held all the way back to Caltech which was
a few hundred miles and the road wasn't gentle.
The Suburban from which we took the shock absorbers had its remaining
shock absorbers explosivly meltdown. (made for a bounce trip). Then another
Suburban simultaneouly severed its exhaust pipe under the driver and ripped
its battery loose. These were fixed.
In the end all of the vehicles got back under their own power. I
think that the Suburban should not be used off road. Its frame is exceedingly
thin. The metal from the crossmember had cracked. The Suburban was less
than 5 years old and suposedly got rountine maintainace by the Caltech
mechanics.
Next time I'm bringing my SIII 88 with my box of spare parts.
Benjmin Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 11:17:03 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 17:13:16 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199312022336.SAA13440@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Dec 2, 93 06:36:02 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 291 Status: RO
> >From the Haynes Restoration book, the history (by the folks from Dunsfold) > indicates that some of the early models (very few) had galvanized chassis. > In fact, the first 50 pre-production prototypes had galvanised chassis and the next 1500 had their chassis painted silver. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 13:22:52 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Winter From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 11:34:59 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Sitting around in the basement drinking lots of beer with Dixon last night. Beat him at arm Wrestling. Havn't lost since I was 10, Should have seen the girl that beat me. Other games - I need info from the U.K. What are the rules in Haxey Hood and the Eton Wall Game. Also equipment and conduct of refs. I think these would be fun in snow. Land Rover cuisine. I like to put on a pot of beans wieners and a touch of maple syrup. Anyone else have any favorite recipes. Driving tip for winter No 3. Snow can be deceiving. A few years back, I was with a friend who wanted to watch the airplanes land. I pull over on what I thought was firm land, as the snow had blown flat over a deep ditch. The next thing I know, is that the land rover is on it's side. We both leave through the drivers side door. I was not angry at all. I thought it was kind of funny, the LR with two of its paws in the air. My friend went off to get a car to pull me out. A pinto, yeah right. A backhoe drove up, and 20 dollars later i was out. Two seconds later, the R.C.M.P. (Royal Cajun Mounted Police - How they get mounted in the first place is a mystery) pull up in a Bronco. As they pull over to the other side of the road, I do not feel it is prudent to warn them. They get stuck, though not nearly as badly as I. (I am a professional, don't try this at home). Picture this, I have the back door open, with a chain between the vechicles, theirs with red lights a flashing, mine pulling it out. If I only had a camera. The never did ask me any questions. Driving tip for winter No 4. Beware of snowmobiles. Nothing like having a 40+ mph projectile come at you, abject fear and eyes as big as dinner plates, shining through a steany helmet. "How did you get here?" they ask, "We didn't expect to see a truck in this deep snow". I respond, "Noone expects the ...." Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From ccray Fri Dec 3 16:32:20 1993 Subject: Sacrificial anodes for rusting LR frames? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 16:32:20 -0600 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1123 Status: RO I have forwarded a couple of LRO e-mails to some of my buddies here in the office (can't remember which conversations) but it generated a conversation regarding the rusting of frames on otherwise long-lasting LR vehicles. The conversation generated a question that I thought I would post to the group: Apparently, a vehicle with a mass the size of a Land Rover generates a certain amount of internal galvanic electricity when exposed to rain, salt roads and salt air. And this internal low-level electricity has to dissipate somewhere. On a normal car, there is lots of steel mass to share in the corrosion or rusting. But on a Land Rover, the metal frame must do the rusting for the whole vehicle. There is some aluminum corrision, but it tends to be less. The question was, why can't some high-tech electronics be introduced to channel that internal electrical galvanic action to some SACRIFICAL ANODES like on boats. A couple of times a year, replace some copper lumps on the car and keep on driving. It sounded like a good idea to me but I figured if it were so good, why didn't someone already think of it?
From caloccia@aperture.cac.stratus.com Fri Dec 3 17:00:03 1993
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sacrificial anodes for rusting LR frames?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Dec 93 16:32:20 CST."
<9312032232.AA17746@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 93 18:02:22 EST
From: Bill Caloccia <caloccia@aperture.cac.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> was, why can't some high-tech electronics be introduced to channel
> that internal electrical galvanic action to some SACRIFICAL ANODES
> like on boats. A couple of times a year, replace some copper
> lumps on the car and keep on driving. It sounded like a good idea
> to me but I figured if it were so good, why didn't someone already
> think of it?
Well, the sacraficial anode isn't a high-tech concept, it is a low tech
concept, and if you have a good ground, then it works, the boat is in the
water, the oil tanks are in the ground, the wave guides at the very large
array are also in the ground. You can place sacraficial materials about
the objects you want to save, and pray the gods take them first.
In New Mexico, they discovered that the gods were greedy and chowed down
the sacrafices much quicker than they imagined. the wave guides broke down,
and so did their signal, so they went out, got some pipe that had better
protection, and put out more sacrafices.
With the 1000+ gallon oil tank, you think anyone is going to dig it up every
five years to figure if the sacrafice is still there ? no.
The boat you check once in a while and replace the anodes -- no biggie.
If you want to anchor your Land rover to a grounding rod, and place
sacrafices about that, it may work, but I don't think you could rove very
far with such a set up...
Not to mention the Air plays a large part (mositure, oxidents, polution)
in the rusting of your rover, and the galvanic reactions where the
aluminum does meet the steel.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:06:43 1993 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: CSMITH@crlsv1.research.allied.com Subject: Origional Land Rover Literature Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1993 16:21:09 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO Today in Blacker Hovse we had our annual Secret Santa gift exchange (final exams start on Wednesday and Winter break starts Saturday). At the end one of my frosh handed me something that he had gotten back home. It was Land Rover Literature. One was entitled "Land-Rover Station Wagons" and the other was "a guide to Land-Rover expeditions". The first is dated September 1971 and the latter May 1972. Also included was a piece of paper which said "With Complements of the Rover Company Limited (publicity department) Lode Lane, Solihull, Warwickshire" and dated July 1972. Also included was the origional envalope which these came in. The Station Wagon book is essentally the sales liturature for the Series III, with all the options listed. They were a neat read especially because my Land Rover is a 1972. Where all of this came from... A guy by the name of J.L. Elbert in Clinton, Mo collected all froms of auto sales liturature from 1927 on. Mr. Elbert passed away and some collector aquired his estate. Aparantly all of this is for sale for a price. My friend happened to work for this guy (by the name of Walter Miller) and told Mr. Miller that I had an old Land Rover. So he sent out the stuff (which I'm told is worth ~$100). Anyway, if any of you are interested you can contact Mr. Miller at: Origional Automobile Literature 1900-present Walter Miller 6710 Brooklawn Parkway Syracuse, NY 13211 USA Phone:(315) 432-8282 Fax:(315) 432-8656 His business card states "Over two million pieces of ORIGIONAL literature in stock. World's largest selection of ORIGIONAL U.S. and foreign automobile and truck sales brochures, repair manuals, owner;s manuals, parts books and showroom items. I am a serious buyer and travel to purchase literature." Anyway, I thought all of you might be interested.... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:10:00 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Heaters
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:51:07 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> Yes, but you probably don't want to take a shovel full of LR parts and
> throw 'em down on the ice for traction, eh ?
It would make for a slightly bumpy ride wouldn't it? Naw, they
would probably stick to my hands when I went to move them... :-)
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:09:34 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:43:23 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk writes:
> In fact, the first 50 pre-production prototypes had galvanised chassis and th
> next 1500 had their chassis painted silver.
48, not 50 I thought...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:10:11 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Winter
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:31:16 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Sitting around in the basement drinking lots of beer with Dixon last
> night. Beat him at arm Wrestling. Havn't lost since I was 10, Should
> have seen the girl that beat me.
Lots of room temperature beer...
So, like, why were you not at the Christmas party? Our friend J.
Dowel won the lugnut award for knocking over his log-construction
garage wall with his Land Rover, D. Watkins got the towball award.
(This guy lives some 450 miles away and flat tows his Series I to
the Birthday Party every year) Not a bad party, much better than
last years... Of course, RN brought lots of goodies for Al to
auction off and give away as door prizes.
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, I nominated you for President. Ted nominated you for
Vice-President (yeah, we didn't get our act together...)
PPS See the latest issue of LRO? It has an article on North
American Land Rovers in it. Besides being slightly interesting
on some of the more obscure history (The aluminium that our
friends are made of comes from Canada) it is generally way off
base. No Land Rovers sold here before 1958? Yeah, right...
Maybe if one dropped the "North" off of the title it might
begin to have some resemblence to reality. I have seen as many
pre-1958 vehicles as I have seen of post 1958 vehicles kicking
about...
As a guide to Canadian Land Rovers, it sucks. Their numbers
for vehicles sold over here are off by some 10,000 versus the
total number stated by Land Rover to have sold here between
1949 and 1974. Oh, yeah, that previous article on the NADA 6
cylinder's is also full of errors...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:09:47 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Sacrificial anodes for rusting LR frames?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 00:16:43 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> The question
> was, why can't some high-tech electronics be introduced to channel
> that internal electrical galvanic action to some SACRIFICAL ANODES
> like on boats. A couple of times a year, replace some copper
> lumps on the car and keep on driving. It sounded like a good idea
> to me but I figured if it were so good, why didn't someone already
> think of it?
You will notice that ships use blocks on the hull to direct
galvanic action, but not vehicles. Why? Because a ship is in a
slightly salty solution that transmits the electricy fairly
efficiently. On a car, the "circuit" is only efficient if the
frame is completely wet, completing the circuit. Otherwise without
the water to act as a conductor, the blocks of sacrificial metal
are isolated most of the time. The concept is well known, it just
is not practical. In fact, the most practical method for reducing
galvanic action on a Land Rover is wiring it for positive earth.
It doesn't make a world of difference, but it does help just a
litle.
Speaking of that, I now have obtained a spare AC Delco alternator
for the Land Rover. We are going to rewire it for positive
earth... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 09:06:38 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Winter
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 21:03:35 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Land Rover cuisine. I like to put on a pot of beans wieners and a touch
> of maple syrup. Anyone else have any favorite recipes.
Beer, beer, and beer? Not a bad recipe, but you forgot to insist
that you use real maple syrup. The artificial stuff is horid.
Besides, we need to do something about the lake of stuff that has
been accumulating, as well as keep Vern's Land Rover in parts from
the proceeds of his maple syrup bush.
You should have come out to Almonte this weekend. With Ted,
George, Dave and myself, we put in his nice shiny blue engine (Ford
blue if you were curious), did up all of the bolts, added a couple
of brake lines, roped a tarp across the front end, and shoved it
out the garage door. With the roof added, it now sits outside,
awaiting Dave to do the wiring before it goes off for a nice new
coat of paint.
Today, after removing Dave's 88, off to the upper fields we went.
(by this time we were missing Ted, but had added JJ, a friend of
his, and George's brother in law.) Why you might ask? Well, the
109 pick-up has returned to the garage.
I first used my 109 to break a path through the weed poplar trees
so that George could back the trailer in. The 109 was trapped
behind my $25 88", and the remains of the 6 cylinder NADA. The 109
is without rear axle, no wheels on the front axle. Needless to
say, a pick-up without engine, gearbox, and rear axle is still a
heavy sucker to carry about. It took the six of us a while to lift
the 109 onto a trailer, one end at a time to make it easy on us.
George intends to put it back together, give it basic wiring, and
turn it into his new "Little Earth Pig". Big earth pig would be a
better description. He has already replaced, probably, two-thirds
of the frame and with surplus parts, including my engine from the
88, it shouldn't take to long. Next weekend is sand-blasting time.
Why? He finds an 88 to have inadequate room in the back to move
wood about, and render it a useful vehicle to generally move
anything about. We will have to see how he makes it perform in the
same woods that have been so expensive, in terms of damage, on my
109.
His current 88? If the Summer Mini sells (I have two more), I
shall probably use it for the summer mud runs... :-)
BTW, the 109 is now lodged back in Almonte. The rings are so far
gone, it is approaching a two cylinder engine. Top speed is now at
about 50mph on the flat, almost a crawl when approaching any sort
of incline. When you hit an incline, the crankcase vent really
blows a ton of gas (burnt fuel-type gas, not unburnt petrol),
<cough> A check of what is coming out of the tail pipe shows that
it is about as efficient with the Weber as we can get. Oh yeah,
when it comes to grounding the system for starting, a ground cable
off of the lower bolt of the starter makes a world of difference.
Rings are on the way from Merseyside, as well as the first lot of
pieces for the proper rebuilt of the original 2.25l engine. Next
chore, to see how easy it will be to change the rings with engine
in situ...
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, The fax to Merseyside also asked them to send you, Mr's Rooth
and Brandenburg catalogues... Gotta keep them on their toes...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 12:21:22 1993 Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 10:16:01 PST From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Dixon, Do you get punched in the nose very often? And if not, why not? bg
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Dec 4 04:56:40 1993 > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers > Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) > Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Content-Length: 294 > X-Lines: 13 > > marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk writes: > > > In fact, the first 50 pre-production prototypes had galvanised chassis and th > > next 1500 had their chassis painted silver. > > 48, not 50 I thought... > > Rgds, > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada >
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 6 12:14:04 1993 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 1993 Camel Trophy, ESPN, 12/12/93 3:30pm EST Date: Mon, 06 Dec 93 10:10:48 Status: RO the Pacific Coast Rover Club's newsletter claims that the Camel Trophy will be on ESPN (US cable sports television network), for those of you that get it. check listings to confirm, so you won't be as dissapointed if this rumor is false... __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 7 06:02:09 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 11:36:09 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <13q1Dc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "dixon kenner" at Dec 4, 93 00:43:23 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 396 Status: RO > > marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk writes: > > > In fact, the first 50 pre-production prototypes had galvanised chassis and th > > next 1500 had their chassis painted silver. > > 48, not 50 I thought... > > Rgds, > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Whoops, bit of a faux-pas there, you're right - 48 it was! Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 7 13:51:26 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: frames oiling and paint refinishing To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 13:47:35 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199312022351.SAA13498@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Dec 2, 93 06:51:16 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4897 Status: RO > Ok, anyone out there know about chemical paint stripping (like for body > panels) ? > > I noticed that the undersides of most of my Rover's aluminum panels are > unfinished -- any suggestions on how to treat them and protect them ? > > (I understand the basic paint process for Aluminum or Galvanized includes > preparing or 'etching' the metal to it will take the primer well. > > I think this round I'll use PPG paints instead of Dupont, but I'm not sure. > > -- bill > Here is how I paint my aluminum parts. I am pretty satisfied with the technique, but of course, would welcome advise or feedback. (I went home at noon and got the exact product names and numbers). -- Take the part off the car -- I try to batch these with enough parts to make it worth the while. This is why it good to have extra parts to repair and then bolt on later. -- Utilize "aircraft stripper" to remove the paint. This is the actual brand name of a paint remover sold at auto paint stores here. It is 90percent methylene chloride and formulated for "..professional use only..". I brush it on and let it set for about 20 minutes. When soaked, I use a wire bush to scrape thru the soft paint. Sometimes you are lucky and can get 2 coats per application, but often it is one coat of stripper per each coat of paint. This stuff will also remove tar and "bondo" plastic filler in the process so I do the back side too to get rid of the tar. "bondo" comes off slowly and takes several passes local to the area of bondo repair. This is a good job for a warm weekend afternoon as you end up getting a little wet in the rinsing process. -- I then heat and beat out any minor dents. The heat is to anneal the metal so that it won't be as hard and brittle for the hammering and straightening process. -- Now, the part is bare aluminum with only minor flecks of paint. I now "tickle" the aluminum part with a sandblaster. The big fenders, etc I do in the driveway. The smaller parts I use a blast cabinet. You are not supposed to sandblast aluminum -- work hardens it and the heat generated by completely removing the paint by blasting will warp the metal. But I only "tickle" the last bit of paint off the stripped aluminum. This also cleans out the areas of aluminum corrosion at this time leaving the clean pitted aluminum. I move around and make sure I don't get any heat buildup. When finished, there is a good rough surface for proper paint adhesion. -- I use some Dupont products to anodize the aluminum. It is Dupont #225S stepa aluminum prefinishing system (cleaner) and Dupont #226S stepb aluminum prefinishing system (conversion coating). The cleaner is a mild acid and the conversion coating contains some salts. You paint this on with a brush, let it set for about 5 minutes and hose it off. This stuff is expensive at $10 per quart and you use more than you'd think you would. At this time, the aluminum part has a light golden glow to it. -- I use a fiberglass filler to fill in the dents left after hammering. "Evercoat Metal 2 Metal aluminum filled metal body repair: polyester resin & hardener" I don't use "bondo" cause it is not as flexible when cured and it is not waterproof. This is normal bodywork, but the part is off the car and on the garage floor. Got to get that bench cleaned off. I then use "featherfill catalyzed polyester primer surfacer by evercoat" to fill the minor sanding marks and pinholes. This stuff sprays on thick and wet sands off. -- Maybe another pass at the anodizing step to get the parts that were hit with sanding paper. -- Next, I hang the part over a line I have stretched between the walls of the garage. A couple of coats of #616s Dupont Variprime self etching primer (enamel) and #616s variprime converter. This primer is two-part and drys smooth. The self etching is described as useful for painting aluminum and galvanized or zinc parts. I figure the self-etching part associated with the paint and the aluminum anodizing is a double wammy and should produce a tight paint with no corrosion under the paint. -- Finally, a top coat of Dupont Centari Acrylic enamel using 8022s mid termperature reducer. I put on three thick coats. -- Let it cure for awhile and be very careful when bolting it back on. It is frustrating to slip a wrench and introduce a scratch. The parts really look good with a complete coat of color. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 05:59:19 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Tires again To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 11:57:25 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <J7o8Dc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Dale Desprey" at Dec 7, 93 6:45 pm Status: RO I'm not sure Dale,but I think you have answered your own question. If you look at the "popular" off-road cross-plies,and compare them with their radial counterparts,the former always seem to look more aggressive. Compare,say the Firestone SAT,with the BFG range of radials and you see what I mean.Of course,having said that,you can no doubt produce any number of examples to refute that statement,so I'm reluctant to be *too* pedantic about it:-) Its just that looking through the LRO it would seem that big lugs are only present on cross-plies and certain members of the Royal Family,but not on radials.I'm certainly changing to radials when I need new covers,if only to get rid of on road wander. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 00:59:23 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Frames: Manufacturers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 22:11:01 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes:
> Do you get punched in the nose very often? And if not, why not?
Generally others do take a good swing at me. Most often I do have
a good counter punch whether hit or not. Here I see a good swing,
and I will grant you a bloody nose, 'Tis pretty easy to grant as I
accept the forty eight hits in total. However, please accept the
fifty crows I'm shoving up your respective nostrils <sic> in kind
that you must accept in kind.
Want to quibble over numbers? I have the tissue paper that you
most dearly require...
Let's call it quits before I decide to cite page 316 of "Land
Rover, the unbeatable 4x4" for starters and shove the extra two
into your nose... I may be wrong from time to time, and I accept
when I may be in error. I learn from my mistakes (recorded in
volumes in mail), unlike yourself, and use these lessons to be more
informed in the future, unlike yourself...
Rgds,
Dixon "I don't have a pre-production model yet., buty I'll have a
Series I before you.."
BTW, Enough being polite. Rover intended to build fifty, but
didn't build that many. They built 47 or 48 of them because
the last few were sacrificed for parts. (48 is the accepted
numner) FYI, Twenty five were finished by the official
launching. two were at Amsterdam (one LHD and one RHD) The
1948-49 model year records 48 vehicles. Either cite sources to
dispute in this or shut up. This isn't this first time you
have taken shots at me, and no doubt the last.
BTW2 Got appointed to Editor of the OVLR Newsletter this evening.
Care to contribute? I'll be blunt and clear here. A lot of
information passes in this mailing list that others would love
to see and learn from. With permission from the posters I
intends to extract portions for the newsletter. I hope you
would grant me the opportunity to pass on your wisdom.,,
Others I know will...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 00:59:25 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tires again From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 18:45:30 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have read the last few postings on tires, some people have radials, others bias ply. I go off road with a friend that has a Jimmy, with not very aggressive looking radials. When he gets stuck in the mud, he just backs up and tries again, and is successful. I don't understand it. My tires are bias ply with an aggressive tread. I don't get stuck as easily as he does, but when I do, I'm stuck. Winch time. Those lugs of mine have dug me down. I noticed the same thing at a loose gravel shore once, no floatation. One club member has been going around with radials, in the mud and not getting stuck, while other LRs equiped with bias ply do. (I was not present to see this feat, so I am still skeptical) I need new tires, but I won't part with money until I know whether it's radials or bias again. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 04:38:25 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Frames and names
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 10:38:22
Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk
Status: RO
>For us North American owners that don't live
>with the evil salt on the roads, what is Wayoyl?
^x
>Is that the commercial name and is it available
>in the US? If not, what is it made with?
It is a turps (or diesel) soluble wax which can be sprayed on/into the
chassis. It dries tacky and will automaticaly reseal small stone chips. I did
my 90 fully when I got it 10 years ago, and I reinject the chassis every 5
years and quickly spray the outside of the chassis every autumn (take about
1/2hr including getting cleaned up afterwards). I have no rust......
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 04:05:11 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Waxoyl To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 10:02:07 GMT Status: RO The name of the product is Waxoyl,not Wayoyl(or was that a typo). I understood it *is* in fact available in the States,but for the life of me I cant remember why!Its solvent is what we call White Spirit or Turpentine Substitute,the stuff that is used to thin domestic paint, *not* a strange Celtic deity,any more than Waxoyl has anything to do with Popeye. When sprayed on steel,using the kit provided,which consists of a drum which is pressurised to 40psi with the pump they sell you(it has a safety valve)the rust turns black,and a clag resistant surface is left. The stuff doesnt dry out,and can "creep" to fill "wounded" areas. An attachment to the spray lance is provided so that you can drill holes and use it to get *inside* box sections such as chassis rails and outriggers.After use,you wash out the spray kit with white spirit. Highly recommended. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 22:36:32 1993 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 21:31:53 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Frames and names Status: RO For us North American owners that don't live with the evil salt on the roads, what is Wayoyl? Is that the commercial name and is it available in the US? If not, what is it made with? Second thing, If you haven't sent in the name for your Rover, or however you refer to it, please do. I am going to compile all the names and genders that I received and post it. Naturally is means nothing, but is kinda fun. Roy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 19:11:52 1993
From: POLSTAB@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 18:37:11 CST
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: CALOCCIA@SW.STRATUS.COM, LRO@TRANSFER.STRATUS.COM
Subject: Re: frames oiling and paint refinishing
In-Reply-To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
-- Tue, 7 Dec 1993 13:47:35 -0600 (CST)
Status: RO
>Here is how I paint my aluminum parts. I am pretty satisfied
>with the technique, but of course, would welcome advise
>or feedback. (I went home at noon and got the exact
>product names and numbers).
I have been in Ray's garage! It's covered with Rover stuff. So is
his basement. The driveway is one of the better Rover body-frame
restoration shops in the Midwest.
I can't imagine, however, worrying about scratching a Rover.
My '71 IIA was hand painted once. The streaks of blue paint
increase the Rover's aerodynamics and probably improve the
gas milage to 5 MPG.
By the way, this blue beast hauled sand bags in a small Missouri
river town during the recent floods. It was a sight to see.
Up to the axes in river mud, loaded to the top with sand bags.
Cheers.
Thad Brown
1971 Series IIA 88" Hard Top.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 18:11:18 1993
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 16:08:00 PST
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@stratus.com, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Subject: Re: Enough being polite.
Status: RO
>Want to quibble over numbers?
No, and that was the point. 50 is close enough to 48 for those of us who don't
want to quibble over numbers.
>Enough being polite.
Missed that part.
R, bg
BTW, do you have the '49 plymouth bumper duct taped to the rear grab handles
yet?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 8 14:55:46 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Subject: Re: Tires again From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 13:36:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes: > I need new covers,if only to get rid of on road wander. > Cheers > Mike Rooth > Another thing about the bias plys that i wouldn't miss if I went to radials. In the cold weather, as the LR sits, the tires develop flat spots. When you hit pavement, you get a thwump, thwump, thwump sound and vibration. I takes a few miles for them to heat up enough to round out. I will take a look at BFG products. I wonder If it was a good idea to get rid of my 15" rims. I am sure that 16" tires are going to be more expensive. Thanks for the info, Mike. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 14:46:02 1993 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: LPS3 anticorrosion spray vs Waxoyl To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com (land rover list) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 14:42:09 CST Status: RO I have no experience with Waxoyl, but I am struck by the similarity of the description given to another anticorrosion product that I *have* used extensively. It is called LPS3, put out by LPS corporation. The way I know about LPS products (they have LPS1, LPS2, etc: each is different) is from my Airframe and Powerplant mechanic days - these products are used extensively in the aircraft industry (as are other anticorrosion products as well). It comes in 12oz spray cans, quarts, gallons, and (for really big Land Rovers) 55 gallon drums. It sprays on as a medium thick liquid (like, um, runny latex paint). The solvent evaporates fairly quickly, leaving a soft waxy translucent brown coating. It also has resealing properties to self repair minor scratches and such. I have been using LPS3 from spray cans on all my vehicles for several years now, and have noted *ZERO* further corrosion on treated areas. I use it particularly on inside panel surfaces (doors, fenders, hoods, etc), and under the bed of the pickup. On protected metal surfaces (inside door panels, for example) it seems to last indefinitely. I retreat spray exposed areas (underneath pickup bed) every year or two and that seems to do fine. The literature indicates corrosion preventive chemistry (ie, beyond a simple moisture or air barrier), but does not elaborate on exactly *what* composition or activity is present (trade secret?). I have an 800 number for LPS at home, if anyone wants it. I have used it to find a local distributor of their products when I needed it in a hurry (looks like any industrial supply house probably carries it). I note that Harbor Freight advertises the 12oz spray cans of all the LPS products for really good prices. Locally, I paid $6.29 per can, and I think Harbor Freight advertised them at $4.50 each. Another aviation industry corrosion preventive I like a lot is Black Bear Par-al-ketone. Thick dark brown sticky wonderful stuff. Treated the bottom inside of my Datsun doors with this stuff years ago (one treatment), and they are still in perfect shape - not a trace of rust anywhere! Now my Land Rover (no name yet, a four year old friend suggested "Rhinoceros" :) is not mobile yet, but before it goes on the road, I'm going to use a lot of LPS3 on it... Obligatory disclaimer: I have nothing to do with LPS corporation, I just like their products, will continue to buy them in the future for all my vehicles, and feel comfortable recommending their products. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 13:24:56 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: waxoyl To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 13:24:45 CST Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Status: RO So, does anyone know who in the states offers Waxoyl? or is merseyside as good a deal as any? Paul -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ******************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 13:19:58 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: Tires again To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 13:18:55 CST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <Bk69Dc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Dale Desprey" at Dec 8, 93 1:36 pm Status: RO Dale writes: > I will take a look at BFG products. I wonder If it was a good idea to > get rid of my 15" rims. I am sure that 16" tires are going to be more > expensive. > I'm not sure of price differentials between the 15 & 16 inch, but the nice thing about 16 is that you can get a higher profile tire (and without having to do so by getting a tire too wide). For instance, you can get a 215/85 or 235/85 in 16 but not in a 15, they only come in a 75 profile rating. Paul -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ******************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 10:56:40 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Frames and names To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 16:52:25 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <azw.436.000AA40A@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Dec 9, 93 10:38 am Status: RO Andy, How did you go about ensuring that the chassis was/is completely covered by Waxoyl inside?I did mine outside last year,but have yet to do the inside,and any hints you may have would be welcome. Also,have you any feel for its lasting properties externally,ie is the respray yearly a dire necessity or better safe than sorry. Do you thin the stuff at all or use it as it comes? Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 10:46:25 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Wet,Wet,Wet To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 9 Dec 93 16:39:55 GMT Status: RO The recent torrential downpours over here,aided by a full gale, prompt me to ask this question.Does *anybody* have a fully watertight Land Rover.And we can leave out Andy's Ninety,'cos its so young he can take it back if it leaks:-) Mine lets wet in less now than when I bought it,due to the PO htinking he didnt *really* need all those nuts and bolts to hold the top on,and the judicious application of mastic to cure the leaks in the back.BUT.....I still get water in between the door tops and bottoms,despite the mastic.And occasional mysterious drips in the back which for the life of me I cant trace.Its almost as though looking at(or for) them makes them go into hiding. Oh,yes,and I dont count the Ottawa Valley mob playing at submarines, either.......:-) Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 09:52:59 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Frames and names
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Dec 93 21:31:53 MST."
<9312090431.AA21338@mtnoca.helena_noc>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 93 10:47:32 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> For us North American owners that don't live
> with the evil salt on the roads, what is Wayoyl?
Waxoyl
> Is that the commercial name and is it available
> in the US? If not, what is it made with?
yes, it is imported
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 16:35:45 1993
To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com (land rover list)
Subject: Re: LPS3 anticorrosion spray vs Waxoyl
In-Reply-To: mvgrie's message of Thu, 09 Dec 93 12:42:09 -0800.
<9312092042.AA29734@shute.monsanto.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 14:32:19 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
There's a German company called W\"urth that makes a line of chemicals
and sprays. I recently bought a can of stuff that is intended for door
bottoms and other fairly inaccessible places. It's apparently mostly
liquid wax with some corrosion inhibitors. Sounds a lot like it fits
somewhere between LPS3 and Waxoyl.
I bought it from Griot's Garage, a fairly overpriced catalog place with
cool but expensive things. There must be a cheaper supplier.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 19:46:03 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Wet,Wet,Wet
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 17:19:57 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> The recent torrential downpours over here,aided by a full gale,
> prompt me to ask this question.Does *anybody* have a fully
> watertight Land Rover.
> Oh,yes,and I dont count the Ottawa Valley mob playing at submarines,
> either.......:-)
Of course not... The water has to have places to pour out of...
<grin>
I can think of a couple that are waterproof on top, but with
ventilated footwells water enters from a mydrid other spots. Door
seals are generally in poor condition over here, and at the cost of
replacing the pieces (even in the UK) I think that they will
continue to leak for quite a while.
BTW, just missed the deal of the year. Three Series I engines for
free. Anoother OVLR member got there first... <grr> :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 19:46:17 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wet,Wet,Wet From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 17:35:50 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes: > Mine lets wet in less now than when I bought it,due to the PO > htinking he didnt *really* need all those nuts and bolts to hold > the top on,and the judicious application of mastic to cure the > leaks in the back.BUT.....I still get water in between the door > tops and bottoms,despite the mastic.And occasional mysterious > drips in the back which for the life of me I cant trace.Its almost > as though looking at(or for) them makes them go into hiding. I have a very leaky hard top. The sealant along the top where the aluminum meets the galvanized, is brittle and missing in places. I also have a mystery leak at the back. There is a product, sold by eastwood tools, called brushable seam sealer, made by Tremco. This seems perfect for this kind of application. I plan to buy some, and will let you know how it turns out. The canvas top I have is watertight. Ok I guess I'll tell you how I got it that way. heat up one can of floor wax (cheap) until it melts. Brush on. Not too thick, or when it dries it looks as if someone put foloor wax on your roof. I wouldn't do that with a new roof, but it works on my old one. If anyone tries this, do it where noone can see you. I can tell you that I felt silly brushing this stuff on. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 18:25:23 1993 From: Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet To: lro@stratus.com (Landy List) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 08:22:22 +0800 (WST) In-Reply-To: <9312091639.AA23022@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Dec 9, 93 04:39:55 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 678 Status: RO My 74 109 used to leak on my accelerator foot, thru the top of the door onto my shoulder and on my head thru a non-stock air-vent in the roof.....great when travelling thru the wet in Queensland! She also used to leak in the rear where our mattress and camping gear was located and *if that wasn't enough* she also taught our perfectly waterproof tent how to drown us as well. Cheers Mark. ***************************** Mark Keenan - mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au MEngSc Student in the Mech & Mat Engineering Department University of Western Australia, Nedlands WA 6009 Landrover - Noisy uncomfortable vehicles for noisy uncomfortable people *****************************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 03:49:54 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 9:46:53 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312100153.AA06699@sun1>; from "Daryl Webb" at Dec 10, 93 11:21 am Status: RO Daryl Two solutions occur. One,wear Drizabone and wellies, Two,there may be a little hole in the bulkhead.Mine drips in over the throttle pedal,and my footwells are,shall we say,somewhat lacking in integrity?Also,there *was* I beleive,once,a mudsheild on that side too... Cheers Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 04:40:26 1993 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Frames and names Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 10:41:28 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >How did you go about ensuring that the chassis was/is completely >covered by Waxoyl inside?I did mine outside last year,but have yet >to do the inside,and any hints you may have would be welcome. You can get a 'special nozzle' for the Waxoyl pressure sprayer. It's basically a long tube with a nail in the end! The nail ensures a circular fan of spray, so you just insert the tube in all the holes you can find, and spray as you pull it out. >Also,have you any feel for its lasting properties externally,ie >is the respray yearly a dire necessity or better safe than sorry. Very much better safe than sorry. After the initial spray ten years ago, my annual sprays are very quick and cursory. The chassis is still pristine despite all the winter salt. It only gets washed once a year, pre spray. Whenever I am doing anything to the vehicle, even checkingthe tyre pressures, I carry a hand held plant sprayer full of Waxoyl and squirt anything I see that even looks like rust...... >Do you thin the stuff at all or use it as it comes? To spray it properly at ambient temperature you need to thin it by at least a factor of two (I use deisel). But for the first coating, I'd leave it full thickness and dump the pressure can in a bucket of hot water to thin it. That way you get the thickest coat. Also, you can get clear (for posers to apply to their WangeWovas) and black. Get the black. It is thicker, and dries much more tacky than the clear, so it fills stone chips better.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 04:46:32 1993 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 10:48:01 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >prompt me to ask this question.Does *anybody* have a fully >watertight Land Rover.And we can leave out Andy's Ninety,'cos >its so young he can take it back if it leaks:-) The front right roof leaks, but not the front left. What is the official LR part number of this leak, so I can allow the passenger to enjoy the experience to the full?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 9 19:54:35 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:21:55 CST
Status: RO
Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> writes:
>My 74 109 used to leak on my accelerator foot, thru the top of the door
>onto my shoulder .....great when travelling thru the wet in Queensland!
Yes, YEs, YES, But where does the bloody water get in to drip ever so
monotonously onto ones accelerator foot. God it drives me crazy !!!!
My old '66 never did this, leaked everywhere else though. But the '82, OH
GOD.
The best I can figure is that it gets in around the door seal at the point
where the winscreen joins the body, but I cant seem to hold back the tide.
With the Wet soon upon us I would like to try to stem the flow just a little
this year. It can be a bit embarrassing to have water run out when you open
the door.
On a different note, do I understand that some of the Ottawa mob have been
involved in Ah, deep water exercises ??
Due to a slight (?) mis-calculation I once had the pleasure of filling my
rover to the roofline with muddy creek water and fresh-water crayfish.
The only thing I forgot to drain was the wiper motor. It worked immediately
after the incident as we drove home in the rain afterwards. However 8 mths
later it had stopped. Still full of now very rusty water.
If you have had to drain your gauges, dont forget the wiper motor.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 08:53:08 1993 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:50:02 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: unsubscribe me Status: RO
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 08:52:10 1993 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:49:23 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: leavin' Status: RO Folks- My account has recently been shifted to another machine, and I no longer receive lro listings......consequently I suspect you are all getting my returned lro mail (sorry for that). I'd unsubscribe from the old address and resubscribe from the new one except the new account is due to expire at the end of the year.....hence, I must bid you all a fond farewell (but I'll be back) and wish you and yours the warmest and safest of holidays. Nige sends his love to Lulu, the Swamp Beast, the Ol' Ditch Pig (not the ex-), and everyone else. Cheers until the new year, rdushin/nigel ps Bill, I'll try to unsubscribe in a separate message, but I am unsure if it will work because my old address has expired (I used to be "u10122@y1.sdsc.edu", the IP address for y1 was 132.249.10.1 in case I am unsuccessful).
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 08:38:14 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 08:35:17 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <FaBBec1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Dale Desprey" at Dec 9, 93 05:35:50 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 817 Status: RO > The canvas top I have is watertight. Ok I guess I'll tell you how I got > it that way. heat up one can of floor wax (cheap) until it melts. Brush > on. Not too thick, or when it dries it looks as if someone put foloor > wax on your roof. I wouldn't do that with a new roof, but it works on > my old one. If anyone tries this, do it where noone can see you. I can > tell you that I felt silly brushing this stuff on. I sprayed my boat cover with Thompsons WaterSeal. It says on the label it is good for spraying canvas. I used a wagner hand-held airless paint sprayer and did not thin it or anything. Water beads up on it now and I expect to re-do it every couple of years. Since it didn't look like a shiny floor, nobody has commented about it either way. (charge =$0.02 -- add it to my bill).
From cak@parc.xerox.com Fri Dec 10 12:32:26 1993
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet
In-Reply-To: ccray's message of Fri, 10 Dec 93 06:35:17 -0800.
<9312101435.AA16276@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 10:31:24 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
Thompson's Water Seal is a good answer, but beware that there are two
formulas of the stuff, one of which is no good for fabric (and says so
on the can). Which is sold near you apparently depends on the vagaries
of air pollution laws!
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 12:03:59 1993
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 09:57:10 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca,
lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet
Status: RO
You guys make me feel like I'm afraid to get the Green Rover's feet wet.
The deepest I've ever had the Green Rover was during our floods of '81 and '82
when the creek going under the 1/4 mile driveway to the slough decided to become
part of the slough. I don't know how deep I was wading her but the water line
was half way up the seat box. At that time I measured the height of the
distributer off the ground and waded out into the drive way to make sure the
distributer would still be above water then ether drove to or from work. One
evening I decided the driveway was deeper than the distributer by about a foot,
parked her on the street side and waded home. Well it was raining hard that
night and there was a strong wind coming off the ocean....
The winch switch shorted out from the water and started reeling in the small
amount of cable wraped around the top of the Roo bar. It also reeled in the roo
bar. When the hook at the end of cable cought on the winch rollers, the motor
stalled and mented the battery clamp.
Other than that, th only real problem I had was that soon thereafter the
aftermarket steel wheel cylinders that I had installed ceased to work. The
pistons rusted solid to the cylinders. I don't use steel wheel cylinders any
more.
Take care and don't go fishing inside your Rovers.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 12:45:41 1993
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: LPS and Harbor Freight 800 numbers
To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com (land rover list)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:56:42 CST
Status: RO
In response to several indications of interest, here is the contact
information I have for both LPS Laboratories and Harbor Freight:
LPS Laboratories, Inc.
Tucker, GA 30085-5052
(800) 241-8334
Harbor Freight Tools
Voice: (800) 423-2567
Fax : (805) 388-0760
Harbor Freight has the following LPS products listed:
LPS1 Greaseless Lubricant $4.49/11oz spray can
(seems much like WD40, I've not used this particular product).
LPS3 Heavy Duty Corrosion Inhibitor $4.49/11oz spray can
(wonderful stuff, highly recommended).
Cold Galvanize $6.49 spray can (size unknown)
(hear it's good, I'm planning on trying it in the future).
Electro Contact Cleaner $9.99 spray can (size unknown)
(have some, haven't used it yet).
If you are not familiar with Harbor Freight, they carry lots of tools and
supplies. Some really great stuff, lots of incredibly cheaply made junk.
Be careful. Some of their prices are great, others are easily beat locally.
Regarding the Black Bear "Par-al-ketone" corrosion inhibitor - I got my quart
can from a friend, but I have seen it advertised in several aircraft parts
catalogs, aircraft building supply catalogs, etc.
Before my '69 88" goes back on the road, a lot of LPS3 will go into it.
The LPS3 can I have at home (last of eight...) claims that it lasts two years
in exposed conditions, whatever they think those are.
Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Dec 12 23:16:57 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Weekend work, and I guess fun...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 21:16:44 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Well Dale, it looks like Ted needs a new starter. He had to crank
start it again this morning. Missed you out in the wilderness. We
half expected you to show up.
Work continued on Georges' latest project, his big Earth Pig. The
frame now has its second coat of Tremclad upon it, the bulk head
primed and painted black. We dissassembled the rear diff because
it had a very suspicious bump on the back plate. In fact we
figured that it had partially exploded inside. Taking it apart we
found that all was fine. It must have been a chunk of ice one cold
morning that made the indentation. We did take the entire thing
apart and did find one twisted half shalf and the flanged in poor
shape, the races pitted, the roller bearings it pitiful shape. We
put the saveable parts aside for future use and went in search of
another diff.
So off to the upper field we went, portable generator and grinder
in hand, and an arsenal of tools (actually a poor use of the word
arsenal. The word is from the 14th century Rupublic of Venice,
where they called their great shipyard "Arsenal", from the Arabic
word "House of Construction", but enough trivia though Georges'
place resembles a Land Rover Arsenal). We extracted the rear diff
from my spare 88 and brought it down. Happily the sun was out, so
Dave, George and I did not suffer to much in the -10c weather. The
diff is actually a 109 diff, so it will be appropriate on the 109
pick-up George is rebuilding. Apart from that, I spent time
cleaning parts of my engine that I am going to rebuild, and Dave is
rebuuilding all of the parts for his dual braking system avec
booster. The major hold up there is trying to get the plastic
reservoir off the master cylinder without damaging it.
The Swamp Beast will not start, though there seems to be power.
Time to add a second ground cable from the lower starter bolt to
the frame. Using a booster cable between those two points makes
power delivery much more efficient, so I guess next weekend that
will be done. Getting rid of the six foot ground cable for the
battery to frame is also scheduled.
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, the kid came by Georges' who wants to buy my Mini. More cash
to pick up some more Land Rovers... :-) :-) :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Dec 12 15:20:05 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Ice racing
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 09:59:48 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> The diesel started today, must be at least -10c. and without even being
> plugged in.
Ted's patrol wouldn't start from all of the rain the other day. It
did go with the crank... :-)
> Winter driving tip #5
Neat... <grin> To bad there is no ice racing around here right now
after last years little incident. They should never have moved it
from the Quebec lake to the Ottawa River.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Dec 11 19:13:53 1993 >From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Driving to Utah Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 16:59:45 -0800 From: Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> Status: RO Well, finals are over and its time for the annual ski trip. The Rover's had all of its fluids replaced or topped off. The roofrack and inside are full of stuff, parts, and jerry cans. Four college students, 700 miles to go in an 88, the sun is setting and it look like rain and snow from here (LA) to Salt Lake City. It should be a sporting adventure. If only one of my passengers knew how to drive a standard transmission it would be alot easier. (why do so many Americans find it too difficult to learn how to drive a standard transmission?) I'll be back in a week (and I hope there are no breakdown stories to tell at the end) -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Dec 11 21:02:22 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Ice racing From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:44:25 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The diesel started today, must be at least -10c. and without even being plugged in. Winter driving tip #5 Ice racing can be fun ( for you). A few years back, with the since departed ser III, we went to an ice race on a Quebec Lake. I had about 5 people in the truck, including friends and their girlfriends. After the official race, and several beers, we decided to try ice racing in the land Rover. There were only 3 or so cars on the track. We did quite well, being able to catch up to some of the cars. For some reason, alll but one car decided that they didn't want to practice anymore. The ice racing equiped Honda remained. It was difficult, but we kept on driving, around, slowly gaining. It seemed he was just trying harder and harder to get away. So we went faster. As we were closing in, I lost control and went straight through the snow barrier (you know, the things that are supposed to keep the cars on the track). The friends who elected to stay in the bar which overlooked the lake, wimps, say that it was an impressive sight, snow flying everywhere, eclipsing briefly the truck, as we bashed through. Apparently all the patrons had their red noses pushed against the frosty glass. Freed from the confines of the track, we drove around the lake. Until we saw the open water under the bridge. We went back to the bar. It was real quiet when we walked in. Decided we should go. As soon as we hit pavement we realized we had a flat tire. Hitting the snow barrier had broken the bead. Got one of my friends girlfriends, who wanted to be just one of the guys, to change it for me. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 06:32:46 1993 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 12:13:56 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >You guys make me feel like I'm afraid to get the Green Rover's feet wet. >The deepest I've ever had the Green Rover was during our floods of '81 and '82 >when the creek going under the 1/4 mile driveway to the slough decided to become >part of the slough. I don't know how deep I was wading her but the water line >was half way up the seat box. At that time I measured the height of the >distributer off the ground and waded out into the drive way to make sure the >distributer would still be above water then ether drove to or from work. One >evening I decided the driveway was deeper than the distributer by about a foot, >parked her on the street side and waded home. Well it was raining hard that >night and there was a strong wind coming off the ocean.... >Take care and don't go fishing inside your Rovers. They're nowhere near as good at fording as Renault 4s. My freind had one which failed its MOT, so we took it green roading. Along one of these tracks is a HOLE full of water and other stuff, where the S.A.S. had got a Unimog stuck on excercise. (You have to be seriouslly brain-dead to sink a Unimog....). Oviously there was no way thru, but he reckoned he could get it round the side. So the pedal went to the metal, and the Renault took to the air. Unfortunately, it landed a couple of yards short and buried itself a couple of fett into the mud. We got it thru with a bush windlass improvised from a defunct climbing rope, but hte track became impassable a few hundred yards further on. (God alone knows what they'd sunk _there_!) So it had to come back. I'd left the 90 at the other side of the Unimog Wallow so we simply pulled the 4 back directly thru the Wallow with the rope. As the water came over the wheels, all was well. As it came over the bonnet, my freind began to look a little perturbed. As it rose towards the roof, his eyes got wider and wider....... Luckily it stopped rising with breathing space left (I had the house keys...), and the 4 rose majestically from the deep. Strangely, he scrapped the 4 next day.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 06:11:12 1993 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Ice racing Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:50:29 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >to get away. So we went faster. As we were closing in, I lost control >and went straight through the snow barrier (you know, the things that are >supposed to keep the cars on the track). The friends who elected to stay >in the bar which overlooked the lake, wimps, say that it was an >impressive sight, snow flying everywhere, eclipsing briefly the truck, as >we bashed through. Apparently all the patrons had their red noses pushed >against the frosty glass. Used to be a standard wya of dealing with snow drifts in the old days, beefore salted raods, and police shutting roads at the first dusting of sleet - i.e. when men were men.... You hit a drift fast, and it explodes away. Hit it not quite fast enough and it compacts and writes the car off....... Not a good idea nowadays tho, cos hereabouts, most drifts have abandoned Minis under em.....
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 10 18:05:55 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wet,Wet,Wet
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 14:20:49 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) writes:
> The front right roof leaks, but not the front left. What is the official
> LR part number of this leak, so I can allow the passenger to enjoy the
> experience to the full?
Hmmm, a nintey eh... It would be rather fun to exchange the roof
with someone over here who has the same problem on the left hand
side. <grin>
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 10:27:13 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: weekend From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 09:03:57 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I was out in Almonte on Sunday, Dixon, but never got around to dropping by. Had quite an adventure. First, I couldn't get it to start. It would sort of fire, then it would change its mind. I don't know whether it is better to pump the accelerator, or just hold it down about 3/4 the way down. Which method do you use Mike? Finally got it started and retightened the clamp holding the exhaust pipe to the manifold. It keeps vibrating loose. On the way to Almonte, a car speeding at 90 mph did an emergency swerve around me, its tires a screaming. The passenger glares back as if it's my fault. Not like they couldn't see me. At first I thought it was some kind of emergency, but the car was going in the wrong direction for that to be the case. Lucky they didn't hit a car in the oncoming lane. There was lots of ice up there. This makes the ride alot smoother, as it fills in the craters. I was with my friend in the Jimmy, who went first. In many areas, we could drive right over the ice. Where the water was deeper, we would break through. It was fun to watch, the Jimmy driving along, then sploosh, straight down. He had to break the ice, about the thickness of an encyclopaedia, to get out. he would ram the ice, which would stop him, back up, and try again. With the dirty work done, I had an easier jod. The problem I has was the chunks of ice that would get pushed up against the shore. Very slippy. Almost disaster. I was following the Jimmy along a straight stretch, with frozen puddles, at speed. ( I would guess 10 - 15 mph) He zoomed over a section of road that considerably lower than the surrounding grade, and thus filled with water and frozen. As I drove across, all hell broke loose. Left front wheel breaks through. Back end jerks around. I am thrown into the passenger seat. Front end jumps out and hits the embankment at an angle. The truck is airborne. If feel the truck about to roll over. I experience that sickening moment of panic and raw fear that seems to last for an eternity. Fortunatly, it slams back over as the back wheel hits ground. As the Land Rover bounces over the frozen hard countryside, I scramble into the drivers seat. I stop, get out and check for damage. No damage to the truck that I could see. My adrenalin was rather high, and today my back is a little sore, but no damage to me either. Winter driving tip #5? Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 16:07:21 1993 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 14:02:51 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! Status: RO I don't know whether to throw the Green Rover over a cliff or commit suicide before working on it again!!! PROBLEM: Still no brakes WHAT I'VE DONE: Take a series IIA 109, add power brake peddle assembly & booster (seris III). Add a brand new 109 duel master cylinder, and break the old line system into front & rear. The exact steps for this conversion to be written up later when I make sure everything is done correctly. Bleed the system with an E-Z bleed system. Result, no brakes. SYMPTOMS: Brakes go to near floor, start to work for an instant, then quickly bleeds to the floor & any brake disappears. Before conversion, brakes required one pump & held firm 1/4 up from floor. I have not fiddled around with adjustment or wheel cylinders to minimize variables. There is no sign of fluid leaks at the new line junctions nor of any fluid loss from the resevoir. The master cylinder is a new Girling unit. I checked, & I have the correct lines going to the front and to the back. The booster is doing some things that I do not feel comfortable with, but its my understanding that the failure mode is the brakes being hard to push, but working (The front of the booster flexes about 1/4 inch when the peddle is pushed to the floor, and there is a small stress crack near one of the master cylinder mounting studs that passes some air when the peddle is pushed). I pulled the master cylinder off the servo unit and the push rod does indeed push out..a long way. Anyone have ANY ideas about what could be going on??? This project has been extreamly furstrating (What do you mean the flares are different??) and I am approaching wits end on something that should be sorta straight forward. The only thing I can think of is that the new Girling master cylinder I got from Merseyside Land Rover services has a problem that leaks pressure from both pistons. What good is a duel system if one part can cause failure in both systems? I wonder if I could exchange the part & if it would cost a fortune doing so. I'm new at this duel master cylinder and boster servo stuff. Any help & insite would be VERY much appriciated. Frustrated on Monterey Bay, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 16:19:56 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 13 Dec 93 14:02:51 PST."
<9312132202.AA21327@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 17:15:53 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Well, two things,
As I understand it with the fitment of a master cylinder (just did one on
my XR4Ti a few weeks back, turns out it wasn't actually leaking though)
there are two things that you need to be concerned about, first being that
the unit is 'bench bled' before fitting on the car, you want to make sure
that you don't have air in the new MC when you plug in the brake lines.
Second is that, sometimes, you need to shim or adjust the pistion which
activates the MC coming from the booster -- too long (or too close) the
piston restricist travel of the pedal, and you're on the brakes w/o
wanting to be. I suppose it is possible that the piston could be too
short and you'd put down the pedal and then get some brakes.
Seems like you've got neither of the adjustment problems, though someone
with more experience could say I'm off on that.
> Brakes go to near floor, start to work for an instant, then quickly bleeds to
> the floor & any brake disappears.
Given your symptoms it sounds like you've got a lump of air somewhere in
the system, you might as well start with the MC and work your way out...
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 19:53:33 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Rover factory repair ??
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 10:52:14 CST
Status: RO
My quip to terri-ann about matches requires more explaination.
The father-inlaw, Andrew, was trained as a mechanic by "The Rover Company"
and for some reason detests all thing british, especially my Land-rover.
At one point in time he was stationed in South Africa as a factory trained
mechanic for the local Rover agent. I'm a bit short on fine details but the
story goes something like this.
At this time there was a particulary frustrating and inconvenient problem
with Land-rover carburetors (whats new) and there was a factory recall to
replace or repair them. Of course not all owners were close enough to to get
this done immediately.
A short-term fix was devised using the end of a match stick which was
apparently stuffed into one of then air ports in the carby top. This worked
for a while until the match worked loose and had to be replaced.
When someone from a remote location contacted the dealer about getting the
repair done they were sent detailed instructions on how to install the
match, a complementary box of matches, and the usual grovelly type letter
explaining that the problem would be repaired under warranty, sorry for the
inconvenience, etc etc.
One day an envelope arrived at the dealership. In it was the instructions
for the "matchstick repair", Unopened. One of the complementary boxes of
matches, with one used match stuck to the outside; and a note.
Thanks, Problem solved.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 19:47:08 1993 From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 10:04:50 CST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312132202.AA21327@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Dec 13, 93 02:02:51 pm Status: RO Hi terri-ann, Land-rover brakes Yum Yum, one of my favourites :-) Some of the things I say may seem basic, sorry if you've heard it a thousand times. 1. As Bill suggested make sure that the pushrod is of the correct length, I cant remember if rovers have different lengths, but it is possible. With the servo pumped dry (no vacuum left) you should be able to feel the free play at the back of the master, I cant remember how much it is supposed to be, Its in the FM (manual) somewhere. Probably ~1-2mm ??. The pushrod will probably be adjustable, but likely seized. :-( 2. Bench bleed the master. You can do this without a vice if your hands are big enough to be able to put your fingers over the outlets. Make sure that
both pistons/circuits are air free. From memory its easier to bleed the rear piston first, then the front. 3. bleed the wheels, most distant from the master first, closest last, probasbly RR, LR RF LF. *Dont have vacuum in the servo.* I have no idea what an ezi-bleed is, generally I just open the bleed valve (or pipe joint if need be) and let gravity take its course for a while. This wont get out all the bubbles but will concentrate them in one spot. :-) You will then need an assistant or some wizz bang device to finish the bleeding.
You will probably need to adjust the brakes first. From memory Its easier to
bleed the air out if you back the shoes off (on the wheel cyl of
interest only) initially. This allows more fluid to flow thru the system, but
gives a lousy pedal. Once you think you have the air out of that cyl,
re-adjust the brakes and move on to the next.
Once you have convinced yourself that no air is left in the system, go and
rebleed everything just for the hell of it.
You *may* now have a reasonable pedal. If it still feels spongy then there
is still air in it. (10 : 1 its in the front.) To find out where grab your
polished girling brake hose clamp(s), (or your rusty vice grips and a rag) and
clamp of the flexible links. Start with the rear one above the diff. If the
pedal doesnt change clamp off one of the front wheels. With any luck you
should be able to isolate the source of the air. If you find that you can
clamp off all the flexible links and still have a problem, its time for the
matches.
Seriously, this would indicate that the problem is in the master or
between it and the flexible links. For those with sIII dual systems the
brake failure shuttle switch can be a source of great angst.
Often at this stage I have found that there appears to be air in the front
but I cant bleed it out.
Solution: Raise the front of the beast as high as you can (within reason),
ramps will just do, but higher is better. If possible leave overnight (for
personal reasons) and rebleed the front. Dont ask me why it works, but it
does.
If you're still with me I hope this helps and that I didnt forget too much.
best of luck.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 17:50:09 1993 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 15:44:37 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: cak@parc.xerox.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! Status: RO In message <93Dec13.144208pst.55939@egeus.parc.xerox.com> "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" writes: > Can you see the fluid level in the reservoir change when you press the > pedal, indicating that fluid is actually being taken into the m/c? > The resevoir is translucent plastic. But if memory serves, I think the level was actually going up when I pressed the peddle > Do you have the engine running (to supply vacuum for the booster) when > doing this test? I tried it with & without. no difference. c Chris? Some how I didn't really expect you on the Land Rover list. Did you get one?? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 17:03:17 1993 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 17:57:43 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! Status: RO TeriAnn says: >The master cylinder is a new Girling unit. I checked, & I have the correct >lines going to the front and to the back. This wouldn't be a case of a Girling unit vs. a Genuine Original Land-Rover Part (TM of Rover's North) would it? ;-) Suppose I shouldn't talk, I have a brand new OD and I'm too much of a whimp to go out and put it on.... monty
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 16:45:06 1993
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: twakeman's message of Mon, 13 Dec 93 14:02:51 -0800.
<9312132202.AA21327@apple.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:41:54 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
Can you see the fluid level in the reservoir change when you press the
pedal, indicating that fluid is actually being taken into the m/c?
Do you have the engine running (to supply vacuum for the booster) when
doing this test?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 16:42:12 1993 From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!! To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 93 16:37:32 CST In-Reply-To: <9312132202.AA21327@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Dec 13, 93 2:02 pm Status: RO TeriAnn Wakeman said: > > I don't know whether to throw the Green Rover over a cliff or commit suicide > before working on it again!!! > > PROBLEM: > Still no brakes > > WHAT I'VE DONE: > ... Sounds like you've done everything right. As I understand it, you have no external fluid leaks, but nonetheless, a loss in whatever pressure you are able to build up. Sounds suspiciously like a faulty master cylinder. Were it not for the fact that it is *new*, rather than rebuilt, I would almost bet on it. It is still my best guess. I just finished rejecting *TWO* rebuilt brake master cylinders for my Datsun 280Z - on both, the rear bled and worked fine, but I could not bleed the front. I ended up proving it to myself (this is also my suggestion in your case, since it is so easy to do) by pulling the master cylinder, plugging the outlets (rubber plugs and steel bar over them with a c-clamp to hold it tight) and mounting it in a bench vise. Then I was able to isolate it completely from the rest of the vehicle. There was then no way to be confused if something else in the system was screwing me up. Only took about 20 minutes too, what with pulling it out and plugging it and testing it. I ended up dismantling it, hoping for a improperly installed cup seal or something easily remedied, but nothing obvious. A *new* master cylinder from a different source fixed my problem immediately. If you do bench mount the master cylinder after plugging both outlets, push in on the piston with a screwdriver. Everything should be rock hard, with no movement of the piston in the cylinder bore. If there is any movement, you either have air (would be bouncy then, and spring back when you release the piston pressure), or an internal leak (no spring back when you back off). Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 08:13:10 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 10:23:25 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312140034.AA13579@sun1> from "Daryl Webb" at Dec 14, 93 10:04:50 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 845 Status: RO > Solution: Raise the front of the beast as high as you can (within reason), > ramps will just do, but higher is better. If possible leave overnight (for > personal reasons) and rebleed the front. Dont ask me why it works, but it > does. > This works on vehicles fitted with the CB (compression barrel) single circuit master cylinder, ie usually 109s - this is because the design of the CB cylinder is such that air becomes trapped in the end-cap at the back of the cylinder which points upward. Raising the front of the vehicle results in the cylinder taking up a more or less horizontal position and thus allows the air to reach the outlet which is at least 2" from the back of the cylinder and thus normally out of range of the trapped air. This probably doesn't apply to Teri-Ann as she has a dual-circuit cylinder... Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 13 17:57:46 1993
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: twakeman's message of Mon, 13 Dec 93 15:44:37 -0800.
<9312132344.AA11063@apple.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 15:55:29 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
Chris? Some how I didn't really expect you on the Land Rover list. Did
you get one??
Nope, still a wannabe, but it's fun to watch.
If the level is going up much when you press the pedal, then you have a
seal problem; your foot pressure is forcing the fluid out of the
cylinder into the reservoir instead of out the pipes. There should be a
one-way valve in the m/c (I'm speaking generically here, that's how
they work) that allows fluid to go down from the reservoir to fill the
system and accomodate wear and leaks, but that valve must seal to
pressurize the system.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 11:03:15 1993 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 09:00:42 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au, twakeman@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! Status: RO In message <9312140034.AA13579@sun1> Daryl Webb writes: > Hi terri-ann, Land-rover brakes Yum Yum, one of my favourites :-) > 1. As Bill suggested make sure that the pushrod is of the correct length, I > cant remember if rovers have different lengths, but it is possible. With the > servo pumped dry (no vacuum left) you should be able to feel the free play at > the back of the master, I cant remember how much it is supposed to be, Its > in the FM (manual) somewhere. Probably ~1-2mm ??. The pushrod will > probably be adjustable, but likely seized. :-( The FM???? I have the pair of white factory manuals and they have NOTHING to say about duel brakes, the cylinders or boostors. If someone has a manual that covers these things I would sure appriciate finding a photocopy of the pertinate pages in my snail mail box. > > > 2. Bench bleed the master. You can do this without a vice if your hands are > big enough to be able to put your fingers over the outlets. Make sure that
> both pistons/circuits are air free. From memory its easier to bleed the rear > piston first, then the front. I have heard of bench bleeding, but I have no idea how it is done. Is this something you can do in place? i.e. disconnect the brake lines and press the brake peddle? Is this really needed in a duel master cylinder? > > Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) > '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon > _-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) > / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" > \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" > v > Thanks for the suggestions TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 10:40:56 1993 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Getting stuck in flat wet fields Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 16:40:22 Status: RO >On a different subject,I semi-proved your tyre problem last weekend. >I'm also thoroughly ashamed of myself,in that I managed to get stuck >on a piece of level,grass field.Stop laughing!And get up off the floor >you'll mess up the carpet!Well,it *was* wet.AND i was in 2WD only. >Engaged 4WD and drew off hoping no-one saw.But the point is that the >cross ply's just dug themselves a hole,or more specifically,spun on the >grass and mud.I had stopped,and was trying to get moving again.I also >noticed that the radial equipped S111 had traversed the same bit of >field,presumably the previous day,without any problems.And I know for >sure that Pat has never used 4WD since she bought the thing. >Roll on my radials. As a rule of thumb, the more aggressive the tread pattern the quicker you will come out in Australia (unless you are starting from there). If you have knobblies on and a wheel on both axles starts to spin, STOP, or you'll be down to the axles before you can shout 'man the lifeboats'. Radials or crossplies. >Lugnut of the what???You dare. >Cheers >Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 09:58:35 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Ice racing To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 15:46:21 GMT Status: RO Abandoned Mini's under 'em.Best thing to do with a Mini,really...:-) Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 09:57:29 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Diesel Starting (or not). To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 15:41:08 GMT Status: RO Ah,yes,well.... What I do Dale is this. Rack the hand throttle up a notch or two to keep it running if it *does* start.Faith is a wonderful thing:-) Give it *at least thirty seconds* on heater plugs only.Pedal to metal and keep it there while cranking.This has worked OK for me down to -14C,after that you're on your own,mate.Like you,I occasionally get the starting,running (almost) then giving up syndrome.Only once per cold start,though.I put it down to partially waxed fuel in the injector supply pipes.Give a further five/ten seconds heater then try again still balls to wall. Tip given to me by more truck drivers than I can count.On one hand anyway.Keep the tank as full as you can,to prevent waxing.I try to treat half empty as empty.You probably know that wrinkle already. On a different subject,I semi-proved your tyre problem last weekend. I'm also thoroughly ashamed of myself,in that I managed to get stuck on a piece of level,grass field.Stop laughing!And get up off the floor you'll mess up the carpet!Well,it *was* wet.AND i was in 2WD only. Engaged 4WD and drew off hoping no-one saw.But the point is that the cross ply's just dug themselves a hole,or more specifically,spun on the grass and mud.I had stopped,and was trying to get moving again.I also noticed that the radial equipped S111 had traversed the same bit of field,presumably the previous day,without any problems.And I know for sure that Pat has never used 4WD since she bought the thing. Roll on my radials. Lugnut of the what???You dare. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 11:26:20 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Dec 93 09:00:42 PST."
<9312141700.AA12542@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 12:24:16 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> I have heard of bench bleeding, but I have no idea how it is done. Is this
> something you can do in place? i.e. disconnect the brake lines and press the
> brake peddle? Is this really needed in a duel master cylinder?
When refitting a MC, you need to make sure that it is filled with Brake fluid
and _no_air_ through-out. This process is generally referred to as 'bench
bleeding', where you attach the MC to a bench vice and activate the MC by
pushing in on the pistion.
However the object is not to have the MC dribble/spray/hurl brake fluid about
the top of the bench -- if you get a Bendix rebuilt MC, they are kind enough
to supply these little hoses and adapters which direct the brake fluid up
to the top of the Resivoir.
Just like in regular brake cylinder bleeding, you bleed the MC on the bench
until you see no more air bubbles in the out flow of the hoses into the
resivoir. Then you keep the MC brake hose fittings plugged and put it back
in the vehicle, Then while re-attaching the brake lines it helps to have
someone about to help make sure that you get brake fluid sprays all about while
reattaching the the lines, thus being sure that you don't attach the
lines and add air.
Naturally, you can do this on the landy if you park so the MC is level, and
disconnect the lines until the MC is bled through.
Ususally the Haynes and what not go into some detail about this operation.
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 12:20:53 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 08:57:57 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> writes:
> Suppose I shouldn't talk, I have a brand new OD and I'm too much of a
> whimp to go out and put it on....
Still centred on the living room table, between you on the couch and
the television set still eh? :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 14 13:21:35 1993 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 93 14:10:58 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! Status: RO > Still centred on the living room table, between you on the couch and > the television set still eh? :-) But it's so new and beautiful!! I took the clutch bearing out this past weekend and played with it for half an hour. :-) m
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 01:12:08 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Brakes and the snail cam.
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 16:39:04 CST
Status: RO
I've just had a thought relevant to all this discussion about Land-rover
brakes.
On my old '66 the brakes shoes used to back off (un-adjust) when driving on
heavily corrugated roads. This turned out to be a combination of standard
size (new) shoes and 1st oversize drums, along with worn cam adjusters.
Aparently L/R's are very sensitive to undersize shoes, so its best to get the
linings ground to fit the drum, if possible.
It is also possible to put the rear shoes in back to front. The shoes are
not identical. The pins which locate on the snail cam are in a different
position for the leading and trailing shoes. Its a while since I made this
blunder but I think the main symptom was not being able to get one shoe to
adjust properly. If you can get it to adjust it may jump off the adjuster
after the first brake application. The snail cams are a pain, but at least
they dont seize up as much as the old type, just a pity they dont centralize
the shoe properly.
Cheers
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 00:12:54 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: raising the front and CB cyls.
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 9:22:07 CST
Status: RO
I wrote:
>> Solution: Raise the front of the beast as high as you can (within reason),
>> ramps will just do, but higher is better. If possible leave overnight (for
>> personal reasons) and rebleed the front. Dont ask me why it works, but it
>> does.
>
Marcus replies:
>This works on vehicles fitted with the CB (compression barrel) single circuit
>master cylinder, ie usually 109s - this is because the design of the CB
>cylinder is such that air becomes trapped in the end-cap at the back of the
>cylinder which points upward. Raising the front of the vehicle results in
>the cylinder taking up a more or less horizontal position and thus allows the
>air to reach the outlet which is at least 2" from the back of the cylinder
>and thus normally out of range of the trapped air.
>This probably doesn't apply to Teri-Ann as she has a dual-circuit cylinder...
Ah it all floods back, my dear old '66 109.
Only catch is when I rebuilt the brakes on the '82 V8 I needed to try the
same stunt to get a decent pedal. Had spent ages sworking, getting no where,
pushed about 250ml fluid through the system and it was still lousy, lifted
the front, rebled it (lots of air came out) and Bingo all fixed.
Perhaps it is something to do with the 11"x 3" braking system.(same as the '66)
ARGHHH an awesome horrible thought!!!
My 11" x 3" brakes use different wheel cyls to most land rovers.
(6cyl brakes in the old parlance)
Is it possible that Terri-ann's problems are confounded by incompatable
master and wheel cyl dimensions. I cant remember if all dual masters are the
same or not.
Does anyone know or should I check this up tonight an post tomorrow.?
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 08:06:18 1993 From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re: Getting stuck in flat wet fields To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) (Andy Woodward) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 14:08:54 GMT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <azw.537.000DA343@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Dec 15, 93 1:38 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Andy says: >Yep, probably. The converse is that on most British green roads, there >is a hardish base if you can cut down deep enough, hence the almost >circular cross section of the standard crossplies. The are aimed at >deliberately sinking the vehicle thru the surface mud to get to the >harder stuff underneath. Yes, this has certainly been my experience. A point worth noting is that the aspect ratio of cross plies is generally 100%, versus the 80% or less for radials. This means that x-plies cut down deeper, more easily than a similar width radial ie my 7.5 inch SATs are as tall as some 9-10 inch wide tyres. Wet grass can stop them dead tho'. You need a good water clearing tread to get over this (not a SAT strongpoint to say the least). Next I'll get Trackers or BFG Tracedges. -- Best Regards, Steve.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 07:36:57 1993 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Getting stuck in flat wet fields Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 13:38:10 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >>Thats my point,mate,I *had* stopped.I was trying to turn round. >No, I meant when you are stopped. While you are moving the wheels will grip on >the front edge of the rut, but if you get a wheel on both axles spinning while >stationary, the only way you can go is down...... Best to stop spinning em and >chuck some grip under the wheels before it gets to 'excuse me nice mr farmer, >could you please pull my lorry out of this hole with your tractor?' time :( >>The tyres are Firestone Town & Country cross ply,not very aggressive >>at all,and are part worn on the back(remember I *was* in 2WD at the time). >I prefer the less agressive tyres myself, OK they slip easier, but you dont >dig holes..... Also, nowadays, I hardly go off the road. I now have almost >road tyres on the 90, an its still suprising what they'll do, with a bit of >subtlety. >>My reading of the situation is that the grass,being long ryegrass,not >>mown all last season,added to the surface mud,created a slick surface. >Ah, wet rye, yes. I have had happy hours skiiing down the hills in Snowdonia >on sodden nardus strictum grass in hiking boots..... Never underestimate the >bloody stuff's capacity to embarrass you :( >>Radials would,I think,as evideced by the S111 on Trackers,have put a >>greater area of rubber down as well as being more flexible,so would have >>floated over the surface,rather than dug in. >Yep, probably. The converse is that on most British green roads, there is a >hardish base if you can cut down deep enough, hence the almost circular cross >section of the standard crossplies. The are aimed at deliberately sinking the >vehicle thru the surface mud to get to the harder stuff underneath. Of course >if there isnt any...... On the other hand, floater tyres can get >embarrassingly stuck by not being able to reach the harder base if it is >there. You pays your money, you takes your choice. >Good bogging >Andy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 04:06:07 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Getting stuck in flat wet fields To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 93 10:02:18 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <azw.518.0010ACBB@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Dec 14, 93 4:40 pm Status: RO Hi Andy, Thats my point,mate,I *had* stopped.I was trying to turn round. I'd gone down to the field to check on the pony,and to muck out the paddock.Normally I would have walked,but it was squally,and I wanted the Rover as shelter when it started to piss it down. By the time I got there,it *was* pissing it down,so I thought "f*** this for a game",and proceeded to turn round.There was a certain amount of wheelspin on the reverse leg,but I controlled that,and stopped to go forwards again.No amount of juggling would get those tyres to grip,and I *dont* mean the rev like hell and let the clutch in variety,either.Rather the "gently,Bentley try high third and ease it"variety.In the end I got fed up and yanked the red lever and walked away in low second.I have since had a look at the hole I thought I had dug,and surprisingly it took some finding. The tyres are Firestone Town & Country cross ply,not very aggressive at all,and are part worn on the back(remember I *was* in 2WD at the time). My reading of the situation is that the grass,being long ryegrass,not mown all last season,added to the surface mud,created a slick surface. Radials would,I think,as evideced by the S111 on Trackers,have put a greater area of rubber down as well as being more flexible,so would have floated over the surface,rather than dug in. I should add that a couple of years ago I pulled an old Rice trailer (empty) up the slope of the field next door when nothing else would handle it(it had been used as a booking office for a show the day before).And you know how heavy the really old Rices are.High first,2WD,up the hill and onto the road no problem.Mind you it wasnt as wet as it is at the moment.If it hadnt been so wet,I would have tried letting the tyres down to about twenty psi just to see what difference it would have made.I'm definitely for a set of Trackers just as soon as I can afford it. Cheers Mike
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 00:44:48 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: ARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 22:57:58 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> writes:
> But it's so new and beautiful!! I took the clutch bearing out this
> past weekend and played with it for half an hour. :-)
Well, be sure to wear sunglasses when the sun is streaming through the
living room window. I am sure the reflected glare off of that, by now,
highly polished surface could be retina damaging... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 17:35:09 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Bleeding tandem master cyls
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 9:01:54 CST
Status: RO
OOPS. I may have lead people astray. For Dual circuit Brakes in a land
rover the Haynes manual suggests the following bleeding order.
front right, rear left, front left, rear right.
Of course I cant find my genuine Land rover manual noe that I need it can I
:-)
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 07:13:54 1993
Date: 16 Dec 1993 06:10:04 -0700
From: Paul Anderson <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com>
Cc: <DEAND@KEA.LINCOLN.AC.NZ>
Subject: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover?
Status: RO
Maybe one of you might be able to answer this question?
Paul
___Forwarded Letter Follows_______________________________
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 11:37:01 +1300
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover?
To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu
Message-Id: <D067B830C1@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Offroaders,
Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane
front bushings on a Rangerover?
Cheers,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
___End of Forwarded Letter________________________________
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 15 19:10:46 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Getting stuck embarassing places From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1993 13:50:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike talks about getting nowhere on slick grass. I can see how that can happen in 2wd. I think I got you beat. Over the weekend, I forgot to mention that I stopped at a friends place for a beer. I guess we had been talking for awhile, decided that I should head out into the cold. Got it started ok. Put it into reverse, and it almost stalls. Try again, lots of straining engine noise, but going nowhere. Am I stuck in my friends gravel lane? I figure out what has happened. The rear axle fluid frozen solid. My friend looks out of the front house window, wondering why i am still sitting there. Wanting to save face, I rev the engine, and drop the clutch. This frees the rear drivers wheel, which digs deep into the driveway. On reflection, I should have put it into 4wd low. Oh well. Must check to see if there is any water in the axle. If it is oil, I should make sure it isn't that 90w 145 stuff I keep buying. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 08:19:06 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover? To: ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com (Paul Anderson) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 08:17:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"ACUS05.93/12/16.13:10:04.855603"@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM> from "Paul Anderson" at Dec 16, 93 06:10:04 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 586 Status: RO Can't give you any insite, but I sure did pick up on that forum address: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Thanks, think I will listen for awhile. > Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane > front bushings on a Rangerover? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 08:26:53 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: heat risers on a LR-88? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 08:25:16 -0600 (CST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 879 Status: RO Little Lulu is making some noise -- seems she has a pinhole (ok, thumbhole) in the small pipe just beyond the manifold. Guess I will forgo the "stainless steel exhaust system" this time and just try to fix it cheap. Besides, it might last quite a while. So, while I was crawling down there, I observed there is no heat riser (that is what I call them -- a spring loaded flap that restricts the exhaust when the engine is started. When it gets hot, the spring (if not rusted) allows the flap to open and exhaust to move on down the pipe). If I patch in a piece of pipe, thought I could add a heat riser at the same time easy enough. Question is: Did Land Rovers have them on from the factory? I know they can be a pain for performance and economy when they rust shut, but I could keep an eye on it and make sure it works ok. Give me feedback as I need to order parts soon.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 11:09:50 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Cc: DEAND@KEA.LINCOLN.AC.NZ, Paul Anderson <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>,
Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com>,
caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 16 Dec 93 12:01:31 EST."
<199312161701.MAA00247@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 12:07:21 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> a beating [note they did some suspension work and have HD rear leafs, and
> regular rear leafs in front!]. However they prefer to replace stock with
alter@all 'leafs' to 'coils'...
(what can I say, I see LR and keep thinking about my 88" ...
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 11:03:41 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: DEAND@KEA.LINCOLN.AC.NZ
Cc: Paul Anderson <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Cc: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@stratus.com>
Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "16 Dec 93 06:10:04 MST."
<"ACUS05 93/12/16 13:10:04.855603"@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 12:01:31 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Offroaders,
Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane
front bushings on a Rangerover?
Cheers,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
Well, in general Urethane bushes will transmit more of the road vibrations to
the chassis (& cabin). I've but this sort of bush in road car suspensions,
to improve handling (as on my Ford XR4Ti).
These bushes are generally preferred by the sports car types, as they are
used to improve handling.
This months LRO, in talking of their rebuilt 90" project vehicle, they
noted that after a year of a rough and tumble life, the stock bushes have taken
a beating [note they did some suspension work and have HD rear leafs, and
regular rear leafs in front!]. However they prefer to replace stock with
stock, until someone assures them "that chassis stress isn't increased
alarmingly as a result of their use!"
I would think if you take your RR off-road you'd want to avoid them, but if you
don't leave the pavement, and want the handling for higher speeds, they would
be a reasonable option.
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 S.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 10:55:24 1993 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 93 11:47:45 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: 90 ads on TV Status: RO I hope I haven't missed another's mention of this but an ad for the 90 has appeared on the local (Cambridge New mail on node 3D from US1RMC::"srr2@Lehigh.EDU" "STEVEN R. ROTH" (11:52:55) 90 has appeared on the Discovery Channel on the local (Cambridge, MA) cable system. Not too and I sort of like the elephant coming out of the garage after the LR.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 10:21:04 1993 Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 15:59:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu In-Reply-To: <9312161417.AA13885@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Dec 16, 93 08:17:12 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1641 Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > > Can't give you any insite, but I sure did pick up on that > forum address: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > > Thanks, think I will listen for awhile. > > > Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane > > front bushings on a Rangerover? I have urethane fitted to my vehicle, unfortunately I have not been able to drive the thing since they were fitted (its a long painful story involving stripping the vehicle for a respray - one day it will be in one piece again I hope!, but atleast its now one colour :-)) I have heard various stories about urethane bushes reducing body roll, and have been a passenger in vehicles with them fitted and the claims appear to be try, but I think you need to drive a vehicle so fitted to be really sure. Anyway this was not the reason I fitted them - I was getting fed up with paying loads of money for Genuine rubber bushes, having them fitted, then driving 1,500 to 3,000 miles during the year before having to replace them again to get the vehicle through its next MOT. I have a complete RK Automotive (sp?) kit fitted which consists of some urethane and some rubber bushes, it would appear that all urethane bushes are bad since there is no give in the system and something tends to get broken. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From rich@apricot.co.uk Thu Dec 16 10:18:56 1993 Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 15:59:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk> Cc: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu In-Reply-To: <9312161417.AA13885@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Dec 16, 93 08:17:12 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1641 Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > > Can't give you any insite, but I sure did pick up on that > forum address: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > > Thanks, think I will listen for awhile. > > > Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane > > front bushings on a Rangerover? I have urethane fitted to my vehicle, unfortunately I have not been able to drive the thing since they were fitted (its a long painful story involving stripping the vehicle for a respray - one day it will be in one piece again I hope!, but atleast its now one colour :-)) I have heard various stories about urethane bushes reducing body roll, and have been a passenger in vehicles with them fitted and the claims appear to be try, but I think you need to drive a vehicle so fitted to be really sure. Anyway this was not the reason I fitted them - I was getting fed up with paying loads of money for Genuine rubber bushes, having them fitted, then driving 1,500 to 3,000 miles during the year before having to replace them again to get the vehicle through its next MOT. I have a complete RK Automotive (sp?) kit fitted which consists of some urethane and some rubber bushes, it would appear that all urethane bushes are bad since there is no give in the system and something tends to get broken. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From rsrose@cco.caltech.edu Thu Dec 16 13:30:35 1993 From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 11:30:30 -0800 To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: heat risers on a LR-88? Newsgroups: mlist.lro In-Reply-To: <9312161425.AA13898@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9312161425.AA13898@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> you write: >Little Lulu is making some noise -- seems she has a pinhole >(ok, thumbhole) >in the small pipe just beyond the manifold. Guess I will >forgo the "stainless steel exhaust system" this time and >just try to fix it cheap. Besides, it might last quite a while. >So, while I was crawling down there, I observed there is >no heat riser (that is what I call them -- a spring loaded >flap that restricts the exhaust when the engine is started. >When it gets hot, the spring (if not rusted) allows the >flap to open and exhaust to move on down the pipe). If I >patch in a piece of pipe, thought I could add a heat riser at >the same time easy enough. Question is: Did Land Rovers >have them on from the factory? I know they can be a pain for >performance and economy when they rust shut, but I could keep >an eye on it and make sure it works ok. Give me feedback as >I need to order parts soon. Land-Rovers haven't had baffles to direct exhaust towards a cold intake manifoldfor for some time, at least since the early 70's when I sarted working on them. You might be able to find some new old stock though, through Craddock or Blanchard.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 17 06:17:07 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: boosters
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 21:46:39 CST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9312171002.AA12517@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Dec 17, 93 10:02:32 am
Status: RO
Mike Rooth saya
> Teriann,my factory manual (S11,and 11A),whilst not dealing with dual
> brakes,*does* have details of servos.There are two types described,
> Girling,and Clayton Dewandre(I'm *almost*certain I've got the latter
> name right).The bad news is I cant for the life of me work out how
> either of them work.One is described as being "mechanical" and the
> other "hydraulic".I'll try to have a look this weekend and see if I
> can make better sense of it.
> Cheers
Mike the "hydraulic" servo will be in-line with a single line braking system.
It will sit off somewhere with the brake line coming off of a standard master
cylinder into the servo brake cylinder at teh front of the unit and then out
to the wheels.
I added one of these to my '66 IIa, made life a lot easier if not much
safer. The type I used was a PBR VH44 Lots of these and similar boosters
were fitted to cars in the very early days of disc brakes.
With the mechanical servo the master cylinder bolts straight up to it. The
servo is between the pedal and the Master.
This is the type TeriAnn is playing with (I hope)
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 16 18:59:48 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: heat risers on a LR-88?
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 9:50:12 CST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9312161425.AA13898@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Dec 16, 93 08:25:16 am
Status: RO
Ray I just happen to have my landrover stuff in front of me, (should be
working really).
The answer is a very definite "sometimes" None of my SIII factory manuals
show anything about heat risers that can find. (dont mean they dont exist
But Autobooks landrover manual OWM895 (10th.ed 1979) ISBN 0 85147 931 6
Gives instructions on how to adjust the "hot spot" valve.
If it is present on your vehicle you should be able to find a counterweight
and serrated adjusting plate on the exhaust manifold just under the inlet,
where the two bolt together. It will be towards the rear of the car. If you
can find it lets know as I can post the instructions for adjustment, they
aren't too involved.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 17 04:05:15 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Bushes and Boosters To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 10:02:32 GMT Status: RO With regard to Urethane bushes,IMO the pro is long life and the con is high cost,(and as Bill says increased noise).At one time of day, springs were bushed with bronze,and you took a grease gun to them every so often,so I cant really see how increased stress is going to be a factor.Or rather,I can see the theory,but given that Land Rover products are so heavily built,I dont think that stress will prove to be a problem in practice.Of course its always a good idea to try it on the dog first:-) Teriann,my factory manual (S11,and 11A),whilst not dealing with dual brakes,*does* have details of servos.There are two types described, Girling,and Clayton Dewandre(I'm *almost*certain I've got the latter name right).The bad news is I cant for the life of me work out how either of them work.One is described as being "mechanical" and the other "hydraulic".I'll try to have a look this weekend and see if I can make better sense of it. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 17 02:07:08 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: raising the front and CB cyls.
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 22:07:38 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) writes:
> ARGHHH an awesome horrible thought!!!
>
> My 11" x 3" brakes use different wheel cyls to most land rovers.
> (6cyl brakes in the old parlance)
> Is it possible that Terri-ann's problems are confounded by incompatable
> master and wheel cyl dimensions. I cant remember if all dual masters are the
> same or not.
While the wheel cylinders are different between the 6 cylinder vs.
4 cylinder models, I do not believe that the master cylinders were
different. I'll take a look in the parts catalogue tomorrow.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 17 02:02:39 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Urethane or Rubber bushings on a Rangerover?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 21:39:35 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
>
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom on the pros and cons of urethane
> front bushings on a Rangerover?
> I would think if you take your RR off-road you'd want to avoid them, but if y
> don't leave the pavement, and want the handling for higher speeds, they would
> be a reasonable option.
I don't know about RRs, but on an 88 or 109 they seem to be an
ideal solution to high cost bushings. George Kearney made some
bushings out of nylon in the Spring and used them on his 88 all
Summer. There is no noticible stress related damage that can be
seen thus far. The 88 spent an inordinate amount of time running
through the bush in less than ideal conditions. In fact to say
that he was hard on it might be a bit of an understatement.
It will be interesting to monitor to see how your observations on
this type of bushings occur over time on a Land Rover. As George
is restoring a 109 pick-up, I may be adding this 88 to my
collection. If so, I will keep an eye on this. As the frame has
been rebuilt, in many places using a thicker steel plate, stress
should be somewhat reduced (I hope).
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 17 11:34:56 1993
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 93 09:30:04 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, Mike@apple.com,
Rooth@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: boosters
Status: RO
In message <9312171216.AA10747@sun1> Daryl Webb writes:
>
> With the mechanical servo the master cylinder bolts straight up to it. The
> servo is between the pedal and the Master.
>
> This is the type TeriAnn is playing with (I hope)
Thats the one. It looks like the infor you FAXed me. Thanks. My Master brake
cylinder is different from the info you FAXed me. It has a large white plastic
resevoir fitting over the cylinder with two feeds down into the cylinder. One
up front & one twords the back. The cylinder itself is long and thin and came
out of the Girling box anadized gold. As I recall the only protrusions were for
the top fluid input & the side for the two lines going to the wheel clynders.
The lines going to the theel cylinder each use a different size connector. I
have the one that takes the larger connector going to the front brakes. The
brake line I purchased from Rover's North intended to go between the front
brakes and the master cylinder had the fitting for the larger opening.
Now for the confusing part... Merseyside only had one duel master cylinder
listed (I believe it is pictured in their catalogue). Thats the one I
purchased. The Rover's North catalogue shows two duel master cylinders, one for
a 109 & one for an 88. I'm told the diameter is different. i ordered a rebuld
kit for the 109 duel cylinder. It will be interesting to see if it fits. Thia
was supposed to be one of those simple easy jobs & I even got a new master
cylinder to keep it easy
Keep the help & encuragement coming.
>
>
>
> Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
> '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
> _-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
> / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
> \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
> v
>
>
Thanks!
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 20 06:27:30 1993 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: boosters To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 18:04:47 +0000 (GMT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9312171730.AA22600@apple.com> from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Dec 17, 93 09:30:04 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 409 Status: RO > Now for the confusing part... Merseyside only had one duel master cylinder > listed (I believe it is pictured in their catalogue). Thats the one I > purchased. The Rover's North catalogue shows two duel master cylinders, one for > a 109 & one for an 88. I'm told the diameter is different. i ordered a rebuld Generally, 109s have a 1" diameter master cylinder bore, and 88s a 3/4" bore. Marcus.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Dec 18 02:44:32 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: boosters
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 23:11:19 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Thats the one. It looks like the infor you FAXed me. Thanks. My Master bra
> cylinder is different from the info you FAXed me. It has a large white plast
> resevoir fitting over the cylinder with two feeds down into the cylinder. On
> up front & one twords the back. The cylinder itself is long and thin and cam
> out of the Girling box anadized gold. As I recall the only protrusions were
> the top fluid input & the side for the two lines going to the wheel clynders.
So the one you received from Merseyside looks like the one in the
FAXed factory manual pages that you should have received today.
The one with the large resevoir is the one typically found on NA
vehicles. The other one depicted with the resevoir built in as
part of the master cylinder I have never seen on a vehicle out
east.
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, found a used servo system today. $75 for the whole mess,
pedal box and all. Now, should I pick up the other two sets? :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 20 15:34:30 1993 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 93 13:29:50 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: british-cars@autox.team.net, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Sworking the weekend away Status: RO Its been an interesting weekend: The Land Rover: I found some interesting things in some series III Land Rover manual pages that were FAXed to me (THANKS!) There are indeed two duel master brake cylinders for series III power brake equipped Land Rovers. The one for the short wheel base 88s has a 3/4 inch diameter piston, and the one for the long wheelbase 109 has a 1 inch piston for the larger wheel cylinders. The easy way to tell is to look for the placement of the larger diameter brake line connector on the cylinder. The 88 master cylinder has it closest to the bulkhead (actual placement of the openings are identical). The 109 master cylinder has the larger connector closest to the radiator. Of course now the one I got from Merseyside Land Rover services in Liverpool is the correct one for an 88 & I have a 109. No wonder I have been having problems. I think I'm going to get a new 109 master cylinder ASAP. ANyone want to purchase a brand new duel master cylinder for a power brake equipted 88?? I'll let it go for 1/2 Rovers North's price plus shipping. The BGT: I finally got the BGT fired up. I have been putting this off because it wouldn't fire the time I tried it and I did not want to hassle it with everything else I was doing. Some history: I had the head rebuilt for unleaded (burnt valve), installed a new fuel tank (old one was leaking) and when I was putting on the carbs noticed that the throttle shafts wobbled. I sent them of to TRF for rebushing and rebulding. Meanwhile I replaced the brake pads & shoes and the front calapers and rear brake cylinders. The wrong carbs came back (my fault not theirs). When the correct ones came back, I put them on & the car refused to start other than for a second at a time when i sprayed some started fluid down the carbs. I revisited this last weekend. TRF set the float level properly and the jets were properly adjusted. Looked like TRF did everything perfectly. I tried firing it up again & it still didn't fire beyond what the started fluid was causing. Well I disconnected the fuel line from the front carb and turned on the ignition to see if there was adequate fuel flow. I did the same for the fuel feed to the rear carb. Everything looked OK. I tried to fire it up again and it fired right up. I also noticed that the fuel in the filter was a lot lighter in colour. My best guess is I was trying to start the car on ancient gas and just needed to clear the lines. All I need to do now is retorque the head, adjust the valves, get it SMOGGED and licensed. The TR3A: Not much headway here. I got the rear shocks (rebuilt at Apple Hydrolics to heavy duty specs) mounted, and the instrument pannel mostly recovered. I'm covering it in stages. The first was to glue it down around the notch for the steering column to give it an anchor and make sure it was lined up properly. After that dried, I went after the front. I carefully shaped the vinal for the center instrument pannel and the cubby box opening. I applied the vinal with the contact cement wet so I could shape it, then weighed down the indented areas. I placed the center pannel, inverted in its proper place and weighed it down with two TR3 brake calapers. I had the part of the panel with the cubby box opening hanging over the edge of the table. I weighed that down with two tie rods and a large pipe wrench. So far its looking very good. Next, I will glue down the outer edges where they curve 90 degrees from the pannel and cut out the holes. I have all but one of the instruments cleaned up, and all the switches cleaned up and ready to reinstall. With any sort of luck, the instrument pannel will be back on the TR by new years. The crank is out being nitrited now. I'm told this is a 3 week process. ETA on the professionaly built engine (Greg Solo) is end of Jan. That means I need to have all the hydrolic lines run by then. I hope to just mate the transmission to the engine and drop it directly into the 3 as soon as it arrives. One of these days, I'll have 3 cars on the road again, but now I'll settle for one, Take care, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From ccray Mon Dec 20 16:43:33 1993
Subject: hardly a ripple at 80 mph...
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 16:43:33 -0600 (CST)
Cc: ccrobert@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Bob Sappington)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1423
Status: RO
It happened to me on the way to work this morning. Just like on
tv. You know the ads -- "..this master jeweler is going to split
a diamond in the back seat of a Accura..." or "...a glass of water
on the hood of a Lexus going 80 miles per hour without a ripple.."
I usually set my coffee cup on Little Lulu's fender while I scrape
the ice, check the oil, load up the back or whatever. I guess
I got flustered this morning cause my wife was riding with me.
I took her to the library and we (she) got out and dropped off
the books. And I took her to work. I remember I was laughing
(she wasn't) cause there were three cars behind me riding my
bumper really close as we moved across town.
From home to her office -- three miles across town. So, I let her off and headed to my job. At the postoffice, I reached down to the transmission tunnel to grab my cup -- I felt like a sip of coffee -- and it wasn't there. Had I left the cup at home? No, it was still riding out on the fender. It was only two more blocks to work, so I just let it ride. Got out, grabbed it - still warm in the insulated cup (with the cover with a drink-thru hole in it) and walked into work. Think Rover might want to use this in one of their tv ads? (Thinking back, Lulu doesn't ride that smooth and I don't understand why my cup isn't lying in a ditch somewhere.)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 03:30:35 1993 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: hardly a ripple at 80 mph... Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 09:31:12 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO > >I usually set my coffee cup on Little Lulu's fender while I scrape >the ice, check the oil, load up the back or whatever. I guess >I got flustered this morning cause my wife was riding with me. >I took her to the library and we (she) got out and dropped off >the books. And I took her to work. I remember I was laughing >(she wasn't) cause there were three cars behind me riding my >bumper really close as we moved across town.
>>From home to her office -- three miles across town. So, I let >her off and headed to my job. At the postoffice, I reached down >to the transmission tunnel to grab my cup -- I felt like a >sip of coffee -- and it wasn't there. Had I left the >cup at home? No, it was still riding out on the fender. It >was only two more blocks to work, so I just let it ride. >Got out, grabbed it - still warm in the insulated cup (with >the cover with a drink-thru hole in it) and walked into work. >Think Rover might want to use this in one of their tv ads? Er, yeah. A couple of years ago, I worked in SHeffield. I was going to see a new house, and before I set off, I decided to take the spare off the rear door and chuck it in the back (harder to steal). I set off to see the house, 12 miles away along some of teh worst maintained roads I have ever seen. After getting back, I opened up the back and noticed the wheel nuts were missing off the carrier. Oh SHIT! I didnt put em back on.. There they were, 24 miles later, all 3 sitting smugly on the fog light housing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never let anyone tell you anything derrogatory about the suspension on 90s.
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 08:33:35 1993 From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Greetings To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 14:27:48 GMT Status: RO Merry Christmas to all on the list,and good Roving in the New Year. Cheers Mike Rooth
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 09:33:23 1993 From: azw@aber.ac.uk Date: Tue Dec 21 15:34:39 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO Anyone done anything with offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu? If so, what?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 09:47:33 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: your mail To: azw@aber.ac.uk Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 09:43:44 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199312211531.KAA09615@transfer.stratus.com> from "azw@aber.ac.uk" at Dec 21, 93 03:34:39 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 762 Status: RO > > Anyone done anything with offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu? If so, what? > I finally hit when I tried the majordomo-type of forum subscritpion. send to: offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu in the body (not subject) first column: subscribe offroad your name and it worked. I just subscribed and it is too early to gauge the contents. Haven't looked for digests, either but I will have to pull out my majordomo notes... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From azw@aber.ac.uk Tue Dec 21 09:55:55 1993 To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: your mail Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:58:54 Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk Status: RO >> Anyone done anything with offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu? If so, what? >> >I finally hit when I tried the majordomo-type of forum subscritpion. >send to: offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu >in the body (not subject) first column: subscribe offroad your name >and it worked. I just subscribed and it is too early to gauge the >contents. Haven't looked for digests, either but I will have >to pull out my majordomo notes... Thanks. I'll try it out after Xmas. Cheers Andy
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 10:15:22 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: azw@aber.ac.uk
Cc: lro@stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 Dec 93 15:34:39."
<199312211531.KAA09615@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 11:12:11 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Anyone done anything with offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu? If so, what?
I subscribed for a while, but it is mostly U.S. vehicles & problems
(if it were a news group it could be called
rec.offroad.tech.chevy-ford-jeep-international) more discussion
about various conversions, mechanicals and problems than more general offroad
stuff. for a while I subscribed and just grep'd incoming mail for any
mention of 'rover' and kept on finding (our) Paul Anderson's signature with
his Range Rover mentioned...
At some point my host generated some bounces, and I never bothered to
re-subscribe.
--- Bill
From phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Tue Dec 21 10:53:52 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: hardly a ripple at 80 mph... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 10:56:50 CST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9312202243.AA16518@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Dec 20, 93 4:43 pm Status: RO Ray: You must have taken a Jackie Stewart driving course. He use to say that the secret off successful racing was to drive as though one had a ball in a bowl on the hood of the car. The idea being to drive as smooth as possible so the ball stays in the bowl. Which brings up another point. Maybe we should start autocrossing our rovers (prizes for slowest?). Paul > It happened to me on the way to work this morning. Just like on > tv. You know the ads -- "..this master jeweler is going to split > a diamond in the back seat of a Accura..." or "...a glass of water > on the hood of a Lexus going 80 miles per hour without a ripple.." > > I usually set my coffee cup on Little Lulu's fender while I scrape > the ice, check the oil, load up the back or whatever. I guess > I got flustered this morning cause my wife was riding with me. > I took her to the library and we (she) got out and dropped off > the books. And I took her to work. I remember I was laughing > (she wasn't) cause there were three cars behind me riding my > bumper really close as we moved across town. >
> From home to her office -- three miles across town. So, I let > her off and headed to my job. At the postoffice, I reached down > to the transmission tunnel to grab my cup -- I felt like a > sip of coffee -- and it wasn't there. Had I left the > cup at home? No, it was still riding out on the fender. It > was only two more blocks to work, so I just let it ride. > Got out, grabbed it - still warm in the insulated cup (with > the cover with a drink-thru hole in it) and walked into work. > > Think Rover might want to use this in one of their tv ads? > > (Thinking back, Lulu doesn't ride that smooth and I don't > understand why my cup isn't lying in a ditch somewhere.) > > > -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ******************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 21 18:45:23 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Cc: dd@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca
Subject: Weekend activities....
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 17:40:05 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 93 19:09:58 -0400
This weekend started with a trip down to a friend's place (Bill
McClelland) some 40 miles south of Ottawa. Picking him up, it was
only a fifteen minute drive over to a wrecking yard to look over
two Land Rovers that were supposed to be there.
Well, there was one there. The other was an ADO, some sort or
Roumanian 4x4. Interesting vehicle, looking like a poor copy of a
Toyota Land Cruiser. The one Land Rover that was there was a 1969
negative earth with inboard headlamps that had seen better days.
While it is all there, it has an added bar behind the front seats,
wood panelling on the rear door. It had obviously been used for
serious fun in the wilds. The six inch hole punched through the
lower right wing attests to a close run-in with a falllen tree or
branch. The engine turns over, in fact everything is there under
the bonnet. The rear springs are shot, the frame looks solid,
though only because someone has welded a couple hundred pounds of
angle iron to it. If my friend doesn't decide to purchase it (he
has been looking for one for years for use on his farm until he
discovered OVLR), as being a beginner to British vehicles this may
be a but daunting, I guess I'll have a third Land Rover to play
with and eventually rebuild. Now to see if I can dig up the $300
on short notice for it... :-)
From there it was up to Almonte with Bill to show him what Land
Rovers should look like, and point out to him what is wrong with
the one in the wrecking yard.
The 109 pick-up is approaching a state where we are ready to put
stuff back on, after removing so much. Saturday afternoon was
spent sandblasting the diffs, springs, steering arms, heater,
drums, backing plates, and plethora of other smaller parts. From
there it was back into the garage for a massive painting session
with all of the parts being primed and then painted over yesterday
evening and today. If anyone wants to rebuilt parts on a Land
Rover, sand blasting, or wire wheeling, lots of varsol, and then
painting makes life a lot easier in both the short and long run.
We had to make two visits up to the upper field, the first time in
search of some locking hubs and a drive shaft, the second for a
radiator assembly, gearbox, and another flange.
The need for the flange was interesting. We have found that a
number of flanges that have had the bearings greased, and the
flange packed with grease have not survived as well as those where
only oil has been used. A couple of hypothesis were proposed.
One, the grease seems to block the oil coming up from the diff, and
leave the outer bearing oil free. Over extended use, the grease is
driven away from the roller bearings, water get in (of course), and
they start to rust. Possibly the build up of grease in the centre
of the flange stops the oil from moving about. The second idea is
that as the grease is driven away from the bearings over time,
water getting in just rusts the units in the absence of any oil
from any location. Leave them sitting for any length of time, and
the surface rust destroys the unit, as well as ruining the race.
Those of you who have packed grease in there might be advised to
take a look at what is going on. I should note, the flanges where
we have noticed this are probably a good fifteen or more years
since they were serviced, if at all.
I removed several pounds of crusted oil off of the gearbox. What a
difference it makes getting all of that stuff off, but what a
chore. Scrapers, narrow screwdrivers, and a lot of varsol is
required for this. Expect to spend a day or two on just cleaning
off the lump. <sigh> once this one is done, we will have to do it
to another. The late 50's yellow 88 is next in line for a
rebuild when we finish off the 109.
Not bad for a year. Among about five of us, we have managed to
resurect, or rebuild, two 109's (my Station Wagon, and the
pick-up), and four 88's (George's, JJ's, Rob's, and Dave Meadows').
We also have another pair of 88's to tackle, with the possibility
of five others that we have located and are available if we so
desire.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 22 17:11:43 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: I'm Back (again)
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 8:38:11 CST
Status: RO
Damn I hate it when our network crashes :-(
TeriAnn, Glad to see you've found the problem (well for now) 3/4" master
instead of 1", yeh that'd make it a bit difficult to get a pedal.
On the subject of masters, I a post which appears to have disapeared into the
ether I mentioned that there are at least 3 different masters. The 88 the
109 and the post 6/80 rationalization V8 type. I think this latter has a
bigger bore again (its a while since I rebuilt mine) The reservoir is not
bolted to the cylinder, rather it uses cross pins. This way the res. has
some flexibility about the cyl. Dont know if its an advantage or not.
Supposedly the res. is replacable should it break but you cant get them over
here.
Re, Dixons observations on hubs and flanges, I'm sure that you've all seen
the old style flanges with the oil fill plug in the flange. However did you
know that there was a hub that used the later style solid flange that was
infact drilled so that oil could be injected into the centre of the hub
through one of the flange retaining bolts. I stumbled across a set of these
and promptly fitted them to my old '66, they got transfered over to the '82
as well.
Mine must have been on an early sIII I suppose as they have the larger
diameter wheel studs. The fill point is always the same so you can identify
them on a wreck just by removing one bolt and poking a bit of wire down the
hole. Trouble is I forget which hole it is just now, if anyone is interested
I can check it out tonight and let people know later.
They beat hell out of repacking wheel bearings, just jack up the wheel, drain
and refill, what a beauty!
Cheers and merry xmas to all
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 06:42:48 1993 From: azw@aber.ac.uk Date: Thu Dec 23 12:43:32 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO Anyone know of any strippable replacements for the silly paper element air filters fitted to 90 2.5 normally aspirated deisels? You know - the ones with a double cylinder of zinc mesh, holding in a paper element between the layers, with a big rubber seal at one end and a pretty air-swirl thingy too? That you have to replace as an entire unit at 30quid just cos the paper bit is dirty!!!!!! Or has anyone found a non-destructive way of disassembling them so the paper can be replaced with oil soaked foam?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 11:08:15 1993 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 09:03:23 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> To: british-cars@autox.team.net, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Dear Santa .... Status: RO Dear Santa, I have been good this year and have had to overcome a worn out Land Rover engine, a burnt valve and worn SU shafts in my BGT. Both cars suffered from worn out brake components, and leaking petrol tanks. The 3 is making slow but steady headway. But through it all I have worked hard, and overcome most obsticals and avoided supplimenting my LBCs with modern cookie cutter clones. I'm very thankful for the friends I have over the net, and the help they haave provided me. So could you please stop by and drop off a few presents for the tree (if you do I'll get a car running & go out & get one). Following is a list of a few toys that would brighten my life: Austin Healey BL7 Triumph TR4 Jaguar XK140 Drophead coup Triumph 1800 or 2000 Roadster Morgan Plus 4 Jaguar MK II Lotus 15 Jaguar XK120C Full time British car mechanic TheGreen Rover would like: a new master brake cylinder A new interior new paint The BGT would like: new front wings new paint The 3A would be happy just to get it together. Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and functional cars, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 17:13:26 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Miisc From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 13:54:34 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The generator packed it in. Going to replace it with a 120 amp GM type alternator. Should be overkill, but I do have two batteries. Thanks to everyone for their advice, Have a Merry Christmas!!! Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 21:58:34 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Dear Santa ....
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 19:45:40 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and functional cars,
Forwarded Mail.
From: Santa@NorthPole.ca
Dear TerriAnn,
I have watched and seen that you have been a good girl this year,
working very hard in restoring your fleet of LBCs. You are an
inspiration to all of those other lbc owners who's pets spend an
inordinate time being neglected.
Unfortunately, I may not be able to deliver the stable of cars that
you desire as my reindeer tend to draw the line at the weight that
they must carry forth. However, do not be dismayed, as I am sure
that you will be thrilled with those items that I do drop by.
The milk and cookies. Please, this year a quart of 20w50 warmed by
the fire would be most excellent. It seems that my reindeer tend to
grow tired with the load that they must pull, and when this happens
I must assist them with my centre steering wheel prototype Land
Rover that replaced my sleigh many years ago. Yes, I know the
current depictions of my sleigh show something a little more
primitive, but you know how backwards Madison Avenue and Coca Cola
can be.
Best wishes from the frozen north, and have a Happy Christmas and
New Year,
Santa Claus
North Pole, Canada
H0H-0H0
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 19:36:48 1993 From: Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> Subject: Dear Santa..... To: lro@stratus.com (Landy List) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 09:35:19 +0800 (WST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 622 Status: RO This year I would like to get a dudey old SI but instead it appears I will be getting a baby instead!! Due in August it looks like I may be waiting a little longer for my next LR......oh well at least I can buy matchbox versions (for the kid of course). Merry Xmas All..... Wrapped at going to become a first-time Dad....WOW! Mark. ***************************** Mark Keenan - mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au MEngSc Student in the Mech & Mat Engineering Department University of Western Australia, Nedlands WA 6009 Landrover - Noisy uncomfortable vehicles for noisy uncomfortable people *****************************
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 24 01:44:15 1993
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 20:41:48 +1300
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: New Member Introduction
To: Land Rover Owners Mailing List <lro@stratus.com>
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
Greetings fellow Landrover owners,
I'm:
David Dean
Charteris Bay, New Zealand.
I've got a '71 RangeRover Bahama Gold (ugly yellow) which is original with
the exception of anti-sway bars and air shocks in the back and is running
on LPG. I bought it in August after selling my 1956 Series 1 SWB
Landrover ragtop. Please don't flame me for that as I have to drive
around 30 miles over a small mountain pass to work and the LR just wasn't
set up for commuting.
Canterbury, N.Z. probably has the largest concentration of early to mid-
70s RangeRovers on the planet, and if you can ignore the snobbery and
cruel jokes associated with RangeRovers and their owners, it's a fantastic
piece of machinery on or off road. (End of guilt soapbox :-)
It's taken me a while to find you (USENET then OFFROAD then LRO) but I'm
glad I have.
Cheers,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 24 04:33:57 1993
Subject: Re: New Member Introduction
To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 10:24:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Richard Jones <rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <3308A474ED@kea.lincoln.ac.nz> from "DAVID DEAN" at Dec 24, 93 08:41:48 pm
Organization: Apricot Computers Limited
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2178
Status: RO
DAVID DEAN writes:
>
> Greetings fellow Landrover owners,
>
> I'm:
> David Dean
> Charteris Bay, New Zealand.
>
> I've got a '71 RangeRover Bahama Gold (ugly yellow) which is original with
> the exception of anti-sway bars and air shocks in the back and is running
> on LPG. I bought it in August after selling my 1956 Series 1 SWB
> Landrover ragtop. Please don't flame me for that as I have to drive
> around 30 miles over a small mountain pass to work and the LR just wasn't
> set up for commuting.
Mine is a '73 Range Rover currently being put back together after a
respray "its now Trocadero", originally I believe it was Sahara Dust,
before going Masai (like) Red (and Silver stripe). Then as body panels
got replaced it aquired some real Masai Red and Cassis Red front
wings! O by the way, I picked Trocadero, because that was the colour
the new roof panel and bonnet were!
> Canterbury, N.Z. probably has the largest concentration of early to mid-
> 70s RangeRovers on the planet, and if you can ignore the snobbery and
> cruel jokes associated with RangeRovers and their owners, it's a fantastic
> piece of machinery on or off road. (End of guilt soapbox :-)
You want to try counting them around here (just 5 or so minutes down
the road from the Factory gates) :-) I have two friends who live locally
who have 4 yes 4, Velar's (pre-production and press launch vehicles)
between them, and they both have shiny EFi's as well! (where did I go
wrong?)
> It's taken me a while to find you (USENET then OFFROAD then LRO) but I'm
> glad I have.
Yes thats about how I found my way here too.
> Cheers,
>
> ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
> ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
> --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
--
_ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171
' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123
/--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park
/ \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk
Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 23 18:00:09 1993
From: daryl@menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Replacable air filters
To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 93 8:39:16 CST
Status: RO
There is a mob going by the name "Finer-filter or Fina-filter" or some such
corruption who make oiled foam replacements for all sorts of things. I could
even get one for my V8 if I had the money.
Fleetguard paper filters can be washed and retreated a few times with some
muck they sell, I think :-). This might be a cheaper option, at least in the
short term.
I'm currently using a fleetguard replacement element in my V8, cost less than
half what the genuine rover unit did. Been there a few years now and only
been washed once, when the whole damn car got its "deep cleansing" swim.
Didnt seem to damage the filter though.
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 365,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 24 12:08:01 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Miisc
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 11:01:49 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> The generator packed it in. Going to replace it with a 120 amp GM type
> alternator. Should be overkill, but I do have two batteries.
Write up the process of going from generator to alternator. Many here
might be interested in seeing how easy it is... :-)
> Thanks to everyone for their advice, Have a Merry Christmas!!!
You too! :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
PS: The Rabbit packed it in this morning. Where are those rings from
Merseyside for the 109. I need them now...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 27 08:30:27 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: New Member Introduction To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 08:27:36 -0600 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <3308A474ED@kea.lincoln.ac.nz> from "DAVID DEAN" at Dec 24, 93 08:41:48 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 837 Status: RO > I've got a '71 RangeRover Bahama Gold (ugly yellow) which is original with > the exception of anti-sway bars and air shocks in the back and is running > on LPG. David, welcome to our merry group. We have had lots of discussions on diesel engines and solex carburators, but never a whisper about propane propulsion. Is that a good setup where LPG is plentiful? When I was a kid, we had such a farm tractor. It all sees ok in my mind, but I do remember the awful smell when it ran out of gas. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx -------------------------------------------------------------------
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 27 12:18:00 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: It's too cold From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 09:39:47 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Too cold to work on the Land Rover. Yesterday, -35C with a Wind Chill Factor of -47C. The Environment Canada Weather Warning was in effect on the Weather Channel, A red warning screen with an annoying monotone beep with one second intervals. A silly message says something like: cold today followed by extreme cold and windy this evening and overnight, clear and cold tomorrow. Exposed flesh freezes in ... The pipes in the house froze last night. They were starting to thaw this morning. Much better weather today, less wind. Maybe I'll get around to the Rover, say mid March. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 27 16:20:43 1993
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 11:14:57 +1300
From: DAVID DEAN <DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz>
Subject: LPG-powered RangeRover info.
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Reply-To: "David L. Dean" <deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz>
Organization: Lincoln University
X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Priority: normal
Status: RO
>Date sent: 27 Dec 1993 08:27:36 -0600 (CST)
>From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
>Subject: RE: New Member Introduction
>Forwarded to: DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz
>To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz
>Copies to: lro@transfer.stratus.com
>> I've got a '71 RangeRover Bahama Gold (ugly yellow) which is original
>> with the exception of anti-sway bars and air shocks in the back and is
>> running on LPG.
>David, welcome to our merry group. We have had lots of discussions on
>diesel engines and solex carburators, but never a whisper about propane
>propulsion. Is that a good setup where LPG is plentiful?
It works well for me. I bought it with LPG but I was going to make the
conversion anyway. If you have an engine that can use unleaded petrol, it
should be fine with LPG. Here in NZ, LPG is 60 cents a litre where petrol
is around 95 cents. Because there is a plentiful supply of natural gas
(and the cleaner exhaust issues), the government subsidises $500 on the
conversion (making it around $1800).
I compared the running costs between diesel and LPG and I think the break-
even is around the 4th year (LPG costs more/litre but the conversion is
MUCH less expensive). Besides, half the petrol stations have LPG
(slightly less than diesel), and I still have my petrol tank and can go
back and forth from a switch on the dash. There is a slight power loss
under gas so I usually run petrol on the big hills.
If there is any interest in the setup on the RR, I'd be happy to discuss
it.
Cheers,
------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) -------
----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) -----------
--- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ----
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 28 14:01:49 1993 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 13:58:04 CST From: wpcallah@rwasic17.aud.alcatel.com (Paul Callahan) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Miisc Status: RO > From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) > The generator packed it in. Going to replace it with a 120 amp GM type > alternator. Should be overkill, but I do have two batteries. I have been attempting to upgrade my alternator, which is a GM, for a while now. This causes me to do some thinking, and after the thinking bit, I have some questions. I'm curious how you solved them. The biggest Delco, I know of is 78 Amps. But this is dated infomation, (I never buy new, and haven't yet moved to the new technologies, shuch as fuel injection, with the extra current demands) perhaps they are making one bigger ? If you are doing what I would, find a 78 amp, and upgrade it, I wonder where you are getting your field from. I say this, because I bought a "Heavy Duty" (tm) field, and it looked an awful lot like the normal one I took out. (Same number of coils per loop, same gauge wire.) ONE TIME, I did get a field with 6 wires per loop, vs the normal 3 or 4, (it workd fine untill it welded the output wire to ground) - this tells me SOMEONE understands physics, and how to add capacity. I just can't get anymore from the place as it went out of business. Paul Callahan wpcallah@aud.alcatel.com
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 29 17:43:04 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Miisc From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1993 10:40:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO wpcallah@rwasic17.aud.alcatel.com (Paul Callahan) writes: > > From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) > > > The generator packed it in. Going to replace it with a 120 amp GM type > > alternator. Should be overkill, but I do have two batteries. > > I have been attempting to upgrade my alternator, which is a GM, for > a while now. This causes me to do some thinking, and after the thinking > bit, I have some questions. I'm curious how you solved them. > > The biggest Delco, I know of is 78 Amps. But this is dated infomation, > (I never buy new, and haven't yet moved to the new technologies, shuch as I bought the alternator from J.C. Whitney & CO. Phone (302) 431-6102, Fax 1-800-228-2888. It is a rebuilt 94 Amp with new field coils, diodes, regulator, to produce 120 amps. This was on sale, until Dec 31, at 99.95 US. They also have 64 amp alternators for as low as 29.99US. Shipping is expensive. Then there are taxes and a handling charge of 5.00 from Communist Post. I have not installed it yet, too cold. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 30 12:36:06 1993
From: jory@MIT.EDU
Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 13:43:17 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: little things
Status: RO
so, i am trying to finish up my rover rebuild of 5 years, and there are a
few nagging problems i thuoght i'd offer up for net-wisdom::
1) idles poorly in the rain/wet weather, seems to have problems climbing
hills
in the rain (power loss) and it looks like if i drive on the highway in
the
rain/fog/damp/etc, the rover loses power every hour or so (i am told the
exhaust gets a little darker when this happens) at which time i have to
s\
top for a couple of minutes, and then everything is fine for another
hour \
(this problem is difficult to reproduce, since you need just the right
wet
conditions... for example, i drove over 1000 miles this week in the snow
without incident... cruising at 70 mph most of the way...) any guesses?
2) annoying squeak from the shifter/gearbox area which occurs only when in
first
or third gears AND accelerating (talked to charlie at RN, and he thought
this
couldn't be gearbox itself, but i can't track it down... anyone had this
one
before?
3) since hooking up the auto return on the rear wiper, using the front and
rear
wipers together blows the fuse within a few minutes (but not necessarily
right away)...
4) any general tips on reducing the noise level... i don't want to offend
any
canadian sense of rugged driving, but those 8 hour highway jaunts can be
a
bit much on the ears... (putting in the county rubber mats helped a bit,
but
i seemed to have plateaued in my efforts to quieten things down...)
thanks,
::jory
a few other things:
1) please change my email address back to jory@mit.edu instead of
jory@moray.mit.edu
2) as an embarrassing admission, i've never driven a land rover other than
my
own (and it was my first car... although i'd driven plenty of "normal"
cars
before its acquisition)... i would really like to see/drive other rovers
(actually, i've seen plenty of others, but they are usaully just sitting
there... which can only be of limited informational/entertainment
value)...
also, i wouldn't mind having someone else drive my rover, since i don't
really know how it measures up to what's possible/typical (reminds me of
the
time a friend drove my rover a few years back and complained that it was
impossible to steer... i thought it must be their problem, but checked
the
steering anyway... turned out the steering box was almost detached from
the
frame, but it had loosened so gradually that i had been compensating
with an
increasingly complex feedback loop...
so monty, would you or anyone else who might be in the boston area be
interested in getting together (is there anyone other than monty and i
around
here?)... also, i'll be in california later this month, so teriann,
would you
have any interest/willingness in showing off your vehicle(s)
(i'll be staying with my friend at apple, so i know i'll be in your area
:)
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 30 13:42:03 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: jory@MIT.EDU
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: little things
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Dec 93 13:43:17 EST."
<9312301834.AA13515@MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 14:40:01 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Well, I can't say that all these things have happened to me, at least
not in Rovers...
> 1) idles poorly in the rain/wet weather, seems to have problems climbing
> hills in the rain (power loss) and it looks like if i drive on the
every honda I've ever owned did that at one time or another...
most often it was a mixture problem or lack of a pre-heater hose
> highway in the rain/fog/damp/etc, the rover loses power every hour or
> so (i am told the exhaust gets a little darker when this happens) at
best guess is that dark smoke is partly burnt and unburnt hydrocarbons,
eg. it was running rich, or cold or both remember that the air
density changes with both temperature and humidity, and if your
mixture or tuning is on the edge...
My guess is this is happening when the air is very very wet, and
ususally with rain (when it gets colder unless it is a wet heavy snow,
the air is dryer `cause the colder air won't hold as much moisture
(same reason why you use a humidifier in the winter).
> which time i have to stop for a couple of minutes, and then everything
> is fine for another hour (this problem is difficult to reproduce,
Is that stop, as in stop, and leave the engine running ? Cause if
it is, then you may have some electrics which are getting wet, and
standing with the engine running dries them out...
> since you need just the right wet conditions... for example, i drove
> over 1000 miles this week in the snow without incident... cruising
> at 70 mph most of the way...) any guesses?
> 2) annoying squeak from the shifter/gearbox area
> occurs only when in first or third gears AND accelerating
> (talked to charlie at RN, and he thought this couldn't be gearbox
> itself, but i can't track it down... anyone had this one before?
ok, in first and third the shift lever is forward, under accelleration
the powertrain is under stress from torque, and the chassis/suspension
is shifting weight to the rear.
My best guess is that either the lever, or some assembly attached to it,
rubbing against the body -- check carefully worn or clean areas about
the shifter upright, body openings, or the underside of the tunnel.
> 3) since hooking up the auto return on the rear wiper, using the front
> and rear wipers together blows the fuse within a few minutes (but not
> necessarily right away)...
Does the rear wiper stop before or after blowing the fuse ?
> 4) any general tips on reducing the noise level... i don't want to
> offend any canadian sense of rugged driving, but those 8 hour highway
> jaunts can be a bit much on the ears... (putting in the county rubber
> mats helped a bit, but i seemed to have plateaued in my efforts to
> quieten things down...)
Mersey side has a set of batting for noise deadening --
> 1) please change my email address back to jory@mit.edu instead of
> jory@moray.mit.edu
okay
> 2) as an embarrassing admission, i've never driven a land rover other than
> my own (and it was my first car... although i'd driven plenty of
>..
> so monty, would you or anyone else who might be in the boston area be
> interested in getting together (is there anyone other than monty and
> i around here?)...
I'm out about Marlboro, but my rover is ``garaged'' at my parents
which is about half an hour from the other end of the Mass pike.
I haven't driven any other old rovers either...
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 30 14:02:48 1993
From: jory@MIT.EDU
Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 15:09:44 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: re: little things
Status: RO
to clarify in response to bill's post:
1) when i have to stop, the engine has stalled, and i have to leave it off
for a
couple of minutes...
2) the rear wiper does not return before dying, it dies in the middle of a
stroke (although the dash lights seem to dim a bit when the siper is
working
and it reaches the "lowest" point in the stroke...) haven't yet had a
chance
to put the multimeter to it...
3) where exactly does mereyside's sound deadening stuff go... what material
is
it (water proof, easy to remove, etc)... anyone had any experience with
it...
4) could someone please give me the mereyside address/contact info so i can
try
and scare up a catalog...
::jory
ps: bill, my 1000 miles of rovering this week took me right by your rover,
since i took 90 between boston and rochester, ny (where my parents
reside)... is your rover presently running?
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 30 15:01:17 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: jory@MIT.EDU
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: little things
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Dec 93 15:09:44 EST."
<9312302000.AA16812@MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 15:59:37 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
to clarify in response to bill's post:
> 1) when i have to stop, the engine has stalled, and i have to leave it off
> for a couple of minutes...
> 2) the rear wiper does not return before dying, it dies in the middle of a
> stroke (although the dash lights seem to dim a bit when the siper is
> working and it reaches the "lowest" point in the stroke...) haven't yet had a
> chance to put the multimeter to it...
motors tend to draw more power when they get resistance, and
either blow fuses or burn up the motor... you might want to check
out the wiper gearing and make sure it is lubricated and doesn't bind.
> 3) where exactly does mereyside's sound deadening stuff go... what material
> is it (water proof, easy to remove, etc)... anyone had any experience with
> it...
I think it was standard type felt batting which was meant to line the
inside of the fire wall and floor - it came in a bunch of different
pieces...
> 4) could someone please give me the mereyside address/contact info so i can
> try and scare up a catalog...
I've got the catalog at home I'll try to remember to bring it in.
> ps: bill, my 1000 miles of rovering this week took me right by your rover,
> since i took 90 between boston and rochester, ny (where my parents
> reside)... is your rover presently running?
Yes it is running, but at present w/o mudshields and whatever parts of
the foot boxes the mud shields were attached to... It does run, and is
registered and all that (though I've got to get back on a week day to renew
its inspection). I go back every few weeks and drive it round the field and
block, to keep everything rotating and oiled....
-- Bill
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 30 16:13:47 1993 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 17:07:06 EST From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: little things Status: RO > so monty, would you or anyone else who might be in the boston area be > interested in getting together (is there anyone other than monty and i around > here?)... also, i'll be in california later this month, so teriann, would you > have any interest/willingness in showing off your vehicle(s) > (i'll be staying with my friend at apple, so i know i'll be in your area No, I wouldn't mind. Right now, the Beast is over on the Belmont/Waltham line getting hardened valves and some suspension work. My first experience with LRs was in Zimbabwe hunting. My PH had three LRs from '53 to 60-something which he completely stripped, repainted, and rebuilt every year. I *dream* of getting my '69 to look like those. I didn't get a chance to drive them and there wasn't a flat driving surface within, oh, 80 miles but what from what I could see his handled as tightly as any LR could. Also saw real field repairs like how to cut an axle gasket when all you have is a hammer. When it's back, we can compare. I'm also replacing the daily transportation so I'll be making a visit to Foreign Motors West and I plan on getting a test drive of their demonstrator 110 or newer 90's. We'll see what that's like... m
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 31 00:39:20 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: little things
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 22:00:03 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
jory@MIT.EDU writes:
> 1) idles poorly in the rain/wet weather, seems to have problems climbing
> hills in the rain (power loss) and it looks like if i drive on the
> highway in the rain/fog/damp/etc,
Check the micture and settings on the carb. What do you have on
it? An old Solex? It might need to be rebuilt. One alternative
is to put a Weber on it. Price is about 52 pounds from England.
> 2) annoying squeak from the shifter/gearbox area which occurs only when in
> first or third gears AND accelerating
William's suggestion runs parallel to mine. Have a passenger
listen to find out exactly where the sound is coming from.
> 3) since hooking up the auto return on the rear wiper, using the front and
> rear wipers together blows the fuse within a few minutes
Too much load on the circuit. Check the rear wiper motor. It
could be worn, or shorting internally.
> 4) any general tips on reducing the noise level... i don't want to offend
> any canadian sense of rugged driving, but those 8 hour highway jaunts
> can be a bit much on the ears...
Get some sound deadening batting and start applying it to the
bulkhead. A carpet set will also help if you desire to be able to
listen to a radio <shudder> tuned to something other than heavy
metal music. Not to worry, some Canadian Land Rovers are fairly
nice and quiet. However, ours tend to be a bit more well "used"...
:-)
> 2) as an embarrassing admission, i've never driven a land rover other than
> my own (and it was my first car... although i'd driven plenty of "normal"
> cars before its acquisition)... i would really like to see/drive other
> rovers...
Plan to drive up to the OVLR Birthday Party in the Spring (June
usually). You will see a good number of other Rovers, and will
have the opportunity to drive others, as well as have yours driven
through areas that you might find enjoyable.. :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, chop down your defaults for line length. You are running over
80 columns with the indentation.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 31 00:39:18 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: little things
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 22:11:28 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> > 1) idles poorly in the rain/wet weather, seems to have problems climbing
> > hills in the rain (power loss) and it looks like if i drive on the
>
> every honda I've ever owned did that at one time or another...
> most often it was a mixture problem or lack of a pre-heater hose
Try mixing Honda wires with a Land Rover as George has done... ROFL!
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 31 00:39:18 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: re: little things
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 22:13:24 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
jory@MIT.EDU writes:
> 4) could someone please give me the mereyside address/contact info so i can
> try and scare up a catalog...
Merseyside Land Rover Services
Bridge Industrial Estate
Speke Hall Road
Speke, Liverpool
L24 9HE
051-486-8636
051-486-5986 (fax)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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Page Created: 13 Jan 1997
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