Message No 7
From root Wed Nov 3 00:08:16 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Diesel Stuff
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 19:07:40 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
See, Mike and I know that diesels are great. Did you say a "quiet"
diesel? Mine rattles so much that I set off the alarms of the cars
parked by the side of the road, just by driving by.(This actually
happened). On long trips, I wear industrial ear defenders.
I have a running bet that none of my friends can start it with the hand
crank. If they can, the prize is a case of beer(12). I figure its a
pretty safe bet.
I heard, from someone that has considerable engine knowledge, that when a
diesel burns oil due to worn rings, the compression can actually
increase! I figure I must have tons of compression.
If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have
times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully
charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and
silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away.
How did that fellow blow up a diesel. I thought they were governed.
With the vapour lock problem, first replace the coil. A bad coil can
simulate vapour lock and other carb troubles.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 8
From root Tue Nov 2 19:24:29 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Mail test
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 18:14:30 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes:
_____
XXXXX|
XXXXX|____ <<==== Still Going...
___________\_ (1949 - )
|
|)
|)
---- |
__ \ | __
\ \ |-|__|
. \ \____|\|__|
O. |
. / |/
/ o <<==-- Not for very much longer...
-- ( )-o (1991 - 1993 RIP)
--------------\\-------------------------------------------------
You do realise that the characters in Al Yankavik's song "Jurassic Park"
would have lasted longer if they had been driving Land Rovers rather than
Jeeps or Land Cruzers... T-Rex would have been driven off by the sweet
smelling oils, fluids, etc. that leak from our aluminium friends, if not
received quite the shock from the galvanic actions accelerated by his
saliva when his sense of smell got lost after a diesel Land Rover went by.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 10
From root Thu Nov 4 04:21:12 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 10:19:07 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <HVwecc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Dale Desprey" at Nov 2, 93 7:07 pm
Status: RO
Yep,Dale,diesels are great,*and* I think your beer is safe for ever!
Are you still running on the two 6V battery setup,or have you modded
it to 12V? I've got a whacking great 12V under the bonnet,and the
underseat battery box has become a useful tool storage facility.
It was never big enough to house a respectable sized battery anyway,
like the one I've got takes two people to lift it in and out,and has
large handle on it to make this possible.
Its great fun setting off car alarms isnt it?I'm never quite certain
wether its the noise or the smoke that does it.
A piece of emery cloth is my consant companion,mainly to clean the
starter motor solenoid to battery connections,but I take your point
about the earth connection on the engine block,this will be attended
to ASAP.Thanks for that one,I admit to taking it for granted.
One thing I'm hoping to do in the near future is to have the injectors
set up,and the distributor pump properly timed,it *does* grieve me
somewhat to see all that fuel I've paid for puthering out of the exhaust
without doing any work.Mind you,when you get clowns behind you trying to
overtake in silly places,a quick dab on the throttle causes a big enough
smokescreen to make them think again.Difficult to drive *and* splutter
all at the same time!
Teriann,on *home* market Rovers(see,I'm learning!)the 11A petrol had one
65A/H 12V battery under the bonnet.The 11A diesel had two 6V batteries,
one under the bonnet,one under the LH seat,connected to deliver 12V at
120A/H.With advent of the S111,one *large* 12V unit was mounted under the
bonnet,mainly,I suspect,because 6V batteries were becoming difficult to
get,and perhaps because one slightly duff battery would pull the other
down with it,plus you had all those extra connections to worry about.
Thats my theory anyway.
To all those anti-diesel folk,I'd *much* rather sit on top of ten gallons
of fuel oil,than the equivalent amount of nasty volatile petroleum spirit!
Particularly when I smoke (not quite as much as the Rover,but nearly).
I distinctly recall the occasion,not so long ago,when I smelt a whiff of
diesel on my way home at night.On inspection,the brass spill pipe plug
had come out of number two injector,lending a whole new meaning to the
term "spill".The stuff was being pumped out all over the engine!Yours
truly retires in haste to workshop,clutching offending part,and turns up
a new plug on the lathe,all the while reflecting that had that amount of
petrol been wandering about loose on a hot engine,I wouldnt have needed
the heater at all!
Ten minutes with the lathe and another ten with a Turbotorch and HMP
solder paste and we were running again.Mind you,it smelt for days!
Cheers
Mike Rooth
t
Message No 12
From root Thu Nov 4 01:30:26 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:23:06 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the
> factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batterie
> where did they put the second?????
Several Land Rovers up here have two batteries. In a 109 Station
Wagon, under the passenger seat is the usual place, as the petrol
tank is in the rear. Where some of the others have hidden them,
I'm not sure. Get a second battery tray, and stick it on the left
side of the rad.
> SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery???????????????
Since you are in warm, sunny California, dump the heater and modify
the bulkhead a bit... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 13
From root Thu Nov 4 01:00:46 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Diesel Stuff
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 22:19:44 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> I have a running bet that none of my friends can start it with the hand
> crank. If they can, the prize is a case of beer(12). I figure its a
> pretty safe bet.
Silly thing to say Dale. Guess what is going to appear in a
newsletter when I become editor in January... It will be an event
at the next Birthday Party... :-)
That is a case of 12 for *every* person that manages eh?
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, you missed this evenings meeting. Afterwards some of use
decided that you should run for President of OVLR for next year.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 15
From root Wed Nov 3 19:06:12 1993
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 13:23:25 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com, lro@stratus.com, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
Status: RO
In message <9311032005.AA02674@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com> writes:
> TeriAnn,
> The owners guide for my SIII talks about a second battery under the
> passengers
> seat. ( Drivers seat if LHD )
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Kevin Spooner
> The Sports Works of Greeley
> Specializing in Triumphs and British Sports Cars
>
> britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear, I have petrol tanks under both front seats so no room for a battery
there. Perhaps on the lap of a passanger? Nooooo. There's got to be a place to
put a second battery in my LR, preferably in the engine compartment. The only
thing I have thought of so far is to go to an on carb air filter and use the
space where the stock air filter sits for a second battery. Only problem is, I
remove the air cleaner to get access to the distributer. Its much harder to do
with a battery. The other thing I have thought of is a small battery in the
right rear tool box that will have the fillerhose for the rear tank going
through it. I'm not feeling good about a battery being in an enclosed space
with a fuel filler hose junction.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 20
>From twakeman@apple.com Wed Nov 3 10:15:25 1993
>Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:08:39 -0800
>From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
>To: Alan.Lancendorfer@Eng, twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com
>Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
>Content-Length: 870
>X-Lines: 20
>
>In message <9311031743.AA26187@landrover.Eng.Sun.COM> Alan Lancendorfer writes:
>> TeriAnn,
>> Mine (Series 11A, 109) came with a second one mounted up by the
>> voltage regulator almost against the bulkhead, sitting parallel
>> to it. There was also a knife-switch installed between the two
>> batteries. My Landrover also had an electric winch installed and the
>> second battery was probably to use when wenching.
>> A.L.
>
>Alan, Thata interesting, but I have a heater blower motor and ducting sitting
>between the air cleaner and the bulkhead. Where is yor heater? or do you not
>have one?
>
>TeriAnn
>
>TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
>twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
>LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
>408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
>
>
Message No 21
From root Wed Nov 3 19:07:55 1993
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 10:08:39 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: Alan.Lancendorfer@eng.sun.com, twakeman@apple.com, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
Status: RO
In message <9311031743.AA26187@landrover.Eng.Sun.COM> Alan Lancendorfer writes:
> TeriAnn,
> Mine (Series 11A, 109) came with a second one mounted up by the
> voltage regulator almost against the bulkhead, sitting parallel
> to it. There was also a knife-switch installed between the two
> batteries. My Landrover also had an electric winch installed and the
> second battery was probably to use when wenching.
> A.L.
Alan, Thata interesting, but I have a heater blower motor and ducting sitting
between the air cleaner and the bulkhead. Where is yor heater? or do you not
have one?
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 23
>From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 3 09:07:03 1993
>Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 08:56:59 -0800
>From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
>To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
>Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
>Content-Length: 1802
>X-Lines: 42
>
>In message <HVwecc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Dale Desprey writes:
>
>some stuff about stinky noisy rattling diesls removed
>
>> If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have
>> times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully
>> charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and
>> silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away.
>>
>Stuff about terrorist atacks blowing up diesels removed
>>
>> Dale Desprey
>> Ottawa, Ontario
>>
>> --
>> Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
>> FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>Dale,
>Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the
>factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batteries
>where did they put the second????? I've bee looking for a place to put a second
>battery in my 109 pickup & have not found a suitable place. Under the left
>seat? Nope, petrol tank there. under the bench behind the front seat in front
>of the right rear wheel? Nope have a propane tank there. How about same place
>on the left side? Nope because there is a water tank going in there. Besides
>anything lower than the distributer is subject to periodic submergence.
>How about the right rear tool box? Nopr filler for rear petrol tank going
>through there. How abut the other side? maybe, but thats where I keep my tools
>when I go on trips. I need at least one box for my do it yourself life line.
>
>SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery???????????????
>
>TeriAnn
>
>
>TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
>twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
>LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
>408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
>
>
Message No 24
From root Wed Nov 3 19:09:26 1993
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 08:56:59 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
Status: RO
In message <HVwecc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Dale Desprey writes:
some stuff about stinky noisy rattling diesls removed
> If you have starting trouble, Mike, check the grounds (earths). I have
> times when the starter turns very slowly, but both batteries are fully
> charged. Even when the grounds look ok, a bit of emery paper and
> silicone dieletric compound, and it cranks away.
>
Stuff about terrorist atacks blowing up diesels removed
>
> Dale Desprey
> Ottawa, Ontario
>
> --
> Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
> FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Dale,
Excuse me but batteries????? I thought all the Land Rovers came from the
factory with a single battery system. If the diesels came with two batteries
where did they put the second????? I've bee looking for a place to put a second
battery in my 109 pickup & have not found a suitable place. Under the left
seat? Nope, petrol tank there. under the bench behind the front seat in front
of the right rear wheel? Nope have a propane tank there. How about same place
on the left side? Nope because there is a water tank going in there. Besides
anything lower than the distributer is subject to periodic submergence.
How about the right rear tool box? Nopr filler for rear petrol tank going
through there. How abut the other side? maybe, but thats where I keep my tools
when I go on trips. I need at least one box for my do it yourself life line.
SOOOOO where is a good plpace to place a second battery???????????????
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 28
From root Thu Nov 4 09:41:51 1993
From: ccray@lulu
Subject: bought an old engine - comments?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 09:38:31 -0600 (CST)
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2019
Status: RO
I just got off the phone but haven't picked it up yet. I bought
an old LR 2.25 petrol engine that had been setting out in the
barn for 12+ years.
-- I live in Missouri -- the engine is in Iowa. I noticed it
in Hemmings about 6 months ago priced at $250. I figured
the shipping costs would scare off most potential buyers,
so I waited. We negotiated over the phone and I will
pay $180 and drive the 150 miles to pick it up.
-- Apparently it came out of a 109. There was some problem
and the owner said "enough, put in a chevy 6". This
is what is left over from that operation. It had been
setting in a corner of the barn for 12+ years.
-- It is frozen, but complete. My machine shop owner says
that you can work out or break out the pistons. Rust
causes some pitting of the cylinder and that can often
be bored out and away. The worst case is a resleeve of
4 cylinders and he charges $50 per hole. It is not clear
I will ever use the block, but you never know.
-- It is complete with clutch, starter, manifold, solex carb,
generator, waterpump, distributor, fuel pump. That plus
the heads makes it worth something to me.
-- I have to travel 150 miles to pick it up. I thought I would
take LULU once I get the overdrive unit installed. We
will drop it onto my trailer with some frontend loader on
a farm tractor.
I know some of you will *brag* that you have bought complete
cars for that price, but I think this is a good buy for me.
Has anyone else had experiences with frozen engines *out of the
car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet --
I need to do some creative thinking soon.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
- 80 MGB - xx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 31
From root Thu Nov 4 11:15:16 1993
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 09:13:24 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Diesel Stuff
Status: RO
In message <8k1gcc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> dixon kenner writes:
battery stuff not included
> Since you are in warm, sunny California, dump the heater and modify
> the bulkhead a bit... :-)
>
> Rgds,
>
> Dixon
>
> --
> dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
> FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
But, Dixon! sputter... That Kodiak heater comes in soooo handy to take the
chill off when the temperature dips down into the frigid fourties!! You should
want me to have to wear a jacket in the mornings?
;*)
Dixon, though I can not really conceive of the winters you go through, the coast
is usually fairly humid and a cool coastal fog can cool you off much faster than
dry air. I probably really do not need antifreeze where I live at the north end
of Monterey bay, but the heater does make the inside of the Rover comfortable
quickly. Wjhere I live normal winter highs can be from the mid fourties to the
high sixties with an occasionalcouple of high seventy days maybe slipping in as
well as one or two days where it might stay in the high thirties. The winter
lows generally range from the low mid thirties to the mid fourties. There is
oftern a week or so when it gets down to the high twenties.
At the other end, it doesn't get warm enough at my house to produce tomatoes or
corn. Most days are in the seventies with about as many days in the eaghties as
in the high sixties. During the summer, its common to get no more than 3 or 4
full days of sunshine without the coastal fog coming in for four or five days.
One of the reasons I gave up spraying final colour on my TR3 is the humidity. I
have three water traps in series on my compressor hose and still can not get dry
air.
You have your bitter cold winters, I have moss growing on top of my Rover.
Take care
TeriAnn
.
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 37
From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:36 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: bought an old engine - comments?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 19:10:16 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes:
> > car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet --
> > I need to do some creative thinking soon.
>
> Ray: tell her its a spare wiper motor for her RR...
How about that he is worried that all of that power under the hood
of the RR might get he hurt. Thus the "new" engine is destined to
go under the RR hood, while he takes the RR engine and drops it in
one of his 88's. Shows concern and thoughtfulness... :-)
Better yet, TerriAnn should have the angle that Ray should use...
<grin>
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 38
From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:15 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Case of 12?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 19:06:53 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> Hey Ray, I have the same memory you do.
> A case was 24 and 12 was two six packs.
All is not lost. Dale like Guiness and beer in quart bottles. If
he tries to pass off pints of domestic, especially after starting
his little smoking beast we will be sorely disappointed... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 39
From root Fri Nov 5 01:18:20 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: bought an old engine - comments?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 18:54:41 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> -- It is frozen, but complete. My machine shop owner says
> that you can work out or break out the pistons. Rust
> causes some pitting of the cylinder and that can often
> be bored out and away. The worst case is a resleeve of
> 4 cylinders and he charges $50 per hole. It is not clear
> I will ever use the block, but you never know.
My this sounds familiar... <grin> Guess what I have at a friends'
in parts. To free up mine, we had to strip the block and use much
force to get the pistons out. Happily, the bores are is pretty
good shape and only need to be honed.
> -- It is complete with clutch, starter, manifold, solex carb,
> generator, waterpump, distributor, fuel pump. That plus
> the heads makes it worth something to me.
At that price, it is actually a pretty good deal with all of the
extra goodies.
> I know some of you will *brag* that you have bought complete
> cars for that price, but I think this is a good buy for me.
> Has anyone else had experiences with frozen engines *out of the
> car*? Oh, another fine point, my wife is not on board yet --
> I need to do some creative thinking soon.
$25 (Cdn) for one? :-) The engine currently in the 109 was $100,
but then again we have a slight surplus of these things around
here. As per seized engines, if there is an archive of old
messages somewhere that you can get at via ftp or telnet, about a
year ago we had quite a conversation on seized engines, mine being
the centre of attention. The first thing to do with it is get it
home, pull the plugs, and pour diesel fuel or penetrating oil into
the bores. Let is sit for a few months. You might as well strip
all of the goodies off of it, clean and store them.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 43
From root Fri Nov 5 10:05:35 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: re:frozen engine
To: ccray@lulu
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 93 16:06:37 GMT
In-Reply-To: <9311051437.AA10640@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 5, 93 8:37 am
Status: RO
Ray,
If all else fails(hopefully it wont)there is a method of freeing
a stuck engine that was used by a mate of mine to free off an
engine built in 1912,that hadnt turned since the mid twenties.
The car,in passing,is a 1912 Abbot Detroit,found in a barn in
the US and imported over here.It has just comjpleted its second
racing season.
What he did was to take off the big end caps,and genly warm the block.
He then played a CO2 fire extingiusher into the bores,which cooled and
shrunk the pistons.At the same time he applied pressure via a hydraulic
jack to the piston.All four came out perfectly,and no cleaning of the
bores was needed.The pistons were cast iron,so a similar process applied
to alloy pistons should work even better.
Perhaps worth bearing in mind as a last resort?
Have fun.
Mike Rooth
PS If it was me,I'd clean up the inside of the engine before putting it
on the shelf.
Message No 46
From root Mon Nov 8 05:50:42 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Saturday afternoon...
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 93 11:50:37 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <s1Hocc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Nov 7, 93 11:22 pm
Status: RO
Dixon,
Top kingpin,Railko Bush?This has a "fibre" thrust washer type thing,
that sits in the bottom of the socket (for want of a better term).
I think it is supposed to be lubricated by splash from the front axle
UJ but if the vehicle has FWH it wont be,not all that often anyway,
and will probably disintegrate fairly rapidly.The bad news is I dont
*think* you can get them as a separate item:-((And replacing the Railko
Bush is a *real* pain.I have yet to devise a way of doing it without
taking the swivel housing off,but I'm working on it....brother am I
working on it!Of course,one way is to buy the Railko Bush,and just
use the washer,but its a bit like buying a car for the ashtray and
chucking the car away.Of course,chances are the top swivel pin,bush
and all are knackered anyway and need doing.Its being so cheerful
keeps me going:-)
Have Fun
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 47
From root Mon Nov 8 04:13:14 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Saturday afternoon...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1993 23:22:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes:
> I also discovered that the frighteningly fast top speed of the
> Swamp Beast might be due to a broken vaccuum advance line.
Amazing what the line will do... Going up into the back field to
check the four spare Rovers we have lying about, I unhappily
discovered that none had the desired item. However, Honda does
make adequate vaccuum lines, and the journey home showed speeds
that hit 60 mph down the highway. Quite a difference! However,
get near an incline, and that magical speed quickly evaporates to
the usual ho-hum speeds experienced in the past.
Other fun included replacing the rear brake/side lamp assembly with
one from England. Seems the wrong set was sent over (to be
corrected), but I decided to put them on anyway. Having something
that always works is useful when one must pass the local
constabulary once and a while. Now to deal with the turn
indicators that have suddenly decided to go south...
North American assemblies are quite different from the UK spec.
The UK spec used 3.5" lenses that are flush mounted on the
galvanised trim. The NA spec was 3" lenses that fit inside a
chrome assembly that extends into the body of the vehicle. NA
lenses are also quite a bit darker than the UK spec. Other
differences? Well, the NA assembly has two mounting holes
in a pattern where thetwo are parallel. The UK spec? Three holes,
the top two parallel, with the third centred on the bottom. The UK
lens also has a clear portion on the bottom, possibly to illuminate
a number plate. NA lenses do not have this clear portion.
A question though with another LR. The parts manual shows a
spacer, or thrust washer that goes under the top king pin. (Not
the paper thin spacers that go on top of the housing, but inder the
bottom of the pin itself. I can supply page references from the
parts manual if required) However, when we dissassembled Dave
Meadow's hubs today they could not be found. Subsequent
dissassembly of two other sets of hubs showed that they too were
missing these spacers. Have these items to be found on other
peoples assemblies when they perhaps have had them apart? We
hesitate to put them back together until we have some sort of
answer on this. Tha Land Rover in question is a late Series IIA,
approx 1968/negative earth, but with inboard headlamps.
Rgds,
Dixon "people can see me trying to stop now"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 49
From where my last message described the swb, today found the
vehicle stripped down to a bare frame, four new outriggers welded
on, a new front crossmember with horns, and a session with a sand
blaster. (To be fair, the frame of an Austin Healey 100/4 was also
done, but then again...) The frame is now a nice primer red,
along with the sandblasted diffs. Tomorrow we shall be taking
apart the front hubs to replace the swivel balls.
I also discovered that the frighteningly fast top speed of the
Swamp Beast might be due to a broken vaccuum advance line.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 50
From root Sat Nov 6 00:06:50 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Beer
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 21:22:41 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> [Grin and Snicker]
>
> Former Ottawa Valley Land Rover Lug Nut Award winner
Dale, Dale, Dale.... <sigh> How you manage to bring up such
interesting things that require you to explain yourself...
For those interested, the Lug Nut Award is an OVLR tradition. It
is an annual award given out at our annual Christmas Party. It is
an award whereby candidates are generally snitched upon by their
friends, as the potential recipient usually tries to forget the
events surrounding his candidacy, and certainly doesn't volunteer
the information. Simply put, the Lug Nut Award goes to the OVLR
member who has not only done something stupid, but has done
something so unbelievably stupid to leave all those about rolling
in the mud laughing.
Last years proud recipient was Fred Joyce, who while rounding the
might Oak managed to be involved in the first accident in OVLR
off-road history. Yes, he rammed a 109 pick-up in the rear, in the
middle of a forest... His name appears with Dale's, though Fred's
appalation is "Rear Rammer".
So Dale <Grin & Snicker> tell us about what you did to beat out the
competition and win our coveted award...
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, It better be good, because I know all about it... :-)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 52
From root Fri Nov 5 19:23:54 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Answers
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1993 09:39:52 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
The story of the first date, a pond and wet ignition.
I was fortunate enough to meet a very attractive young woman about a year
ago, who expressed an interest in what I did for fun. I told her I
liked long drives in the country and invited her to join me. I show up
in the series III (since sold). I'd say she took it quite well.
At first I took her through a fairly easy course (first impressions you
know) near Almonte. Afterwards I asked her if she would like to try
another course. To my suprise, she said maybe.
We arrived, and all that we could see was endless water where the road
should be. I bravely put the rover into gear and venture forth. As soon
as we hit water, We sink. H20 is spewing from between the bonnet and
fenders. She lifts her feet.
The engine starts to sputter. The cab is amazingly quite. Fortunatly we
reach some higher ground. She lowers her feet.
For the first time I notice her running shoes and muse that they won't
handle the walk out very well.
I suggest that we turn around and try to drive out. She wholeheartedly
agrees. I turn around, pumping the gas to prevent it from stalling. I
ask "ready?". She only gives a weak nod. I put it into second and
concentrate on the perfect bow wave. We descend once again into water.
Half way through, the engine isn't coping so well. All at once, the
engine stops. It feels like eternity. I look over at my date, to see
her, feet raised, slowly positioning her hands over her mouth, her eyes a
as big as dinner plates.
BANG! One cylinder fires, (must have been detionation or something
because it seemed to take forever to decide to fire.) I pump the gas, and
we get out. Once back on pavement, the engine dies every time we come to
a stop.
I take her for a drink to settle her nerves.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 54
From root Mon Nov 8 11:45:39 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Weekend Adventure
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 07:58:37 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Was up in Almonte on Sunday, discovered that the various water spots were
covered with a thin layer of ICE! It's too early for that, what happened
to Indian Summer.
We (I was with a friend in a Jimmy), were following a path, come swamp,
and as I was breaking through the ice, my friend began to frantically
beep his horn. It turned out that as the Land Rover sank, and the Ice
came over the bumper, that I had bent a wing. The Ice was thicker than I
had thought, reaching a thickness of 1/2 an inch. I decided to back up,
and drive in reverse to another section. Crack, stop, crack, stop. Going
nowhere fast, I drove to shore, to check the damage. Pushed in the side
of the wing with my hand, as good as new. Chipped a bit of paint though.
Moral - Land Rovers don't make good Ice Breakers.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 57
From root Mon Nov 8 23:02:57 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Saturday afternoon...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1993 18:50:35 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Top kingpin,Railko Bush?This has a "fibre" thrust washer type thing,
> that sits in the bottom of the socket (for want of a better term).
Fibre? Hmmm, the parts manual didn't describe what it was made of.
Being fibre I can see how the thing would either disintegrate of be
difficult to find among the mess.
> and will probably disintegrate fairly rapidly.The bad news is I dont
> *think* you can get them as a separate item:-(
They are available seperately. Part No. 528702, US$1.55 from RN.
> (And replacing the Railko Bush is a *real* pain. I have yet to devise a
> way of doing it without taking the swivel housing off, but I'm working
> on it....brother am I working on it!
Well, the swivel ball has been replaced, so putting in a new bush
was not that difficult. Looking at the assembly, I don't see
any way of removing the old one with removing the swivel ball, and
even then considering the pressure required to put it in place will
make it messy to remove. Besides, there are not that many bolts
you will have to remove. An afternoon will get the job done...
:-)
Thx,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 58
From ccray Tue Nov 9 16:36:42 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Weekend Adventure
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 10:46:37 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Was up in Almonte on Sunday, discovered that the various water spots were
> covered with a thin layer of ICE! It's too early for that, what happened
> to Indian Summer.
You didn't stop by George's. We were there playing about.
I though that you had changed the under-riders over to over-riders
for the ice breaking efforts. Time to get George to weld up the
traditional ice-breaker attachment and put it on the front of your
diesel.
Now, since you have demonstrated your keenness for partaking in
semi-winter activities, I do have a suggestion for you. I have
this air pump off of a early seventies Mini-1000. While it
produced disasterous performance on an 'A' block, it was good at
moving air. I propose that we put this air pump onto your engine,
and put the outlet hoses out the front of your 88. This will
result in a constant stream of air being ejected out the front.
The benefit is that when you are in ice-breaker mode <tm> the
injected air will be accumulating under the ice. Such an
accumulation will weaken the ice, making it easier to break
through. Future enhancements include a telescoping pipe to allow
you to inject air further ahead for when you want to pre-load the
ice for more racing-like speeds.
Hey, if it works on our Ice-Breakers up north, it will
work on your Land Rover...
Land Rovers do make good ice-breakers. You have just avoided the
sound advice of your peers... <grin> So when can we expect the 88
to arrive for its latest modifications?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 59
From ccray Tue Nov 9 16:37:13 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Balls...and Bushes
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 10:36:14 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Dixon,youre a bloody genius!I have my LH swivel bearings to "adjust"
> and was dreading the job.Now I can go and get the thrust washer and
> reshim.Should be OK for a twelvemonth after that.Was the part number
> a RN number,or a Land Rover Parts number?
The quoted part number is a Land Rover part number. You should be
able to do the entire job, less the swivel ball removal using axle
stands. Pullint the kinpin out is easy, but take care not to
damage the shims too much. Careful use of a bloody great hammer
and chisel was required to get the king pin out of the other donor
vehicles, but once out, if the axle is suppoered so there is no
weight in the wheel (but wheel supported in a stationary position),
the king pin will go back in without too much problem.
> As for replacing the Railko without removing the swivel housing,
Interesting approach, but you have to drive the bush upwards which
is the biggest problem of the whole operation. Considering the
work that would have to go into such a venture, taking care not to
damade the swivel housing, it really isn't worth the extra effort.
It comes down to being faster to take the whole thing apart.
> (Mental picture of man knocking hole in garage wall to pass
> long half shaft through.I've known it happen!)
:-) So have I!
> We have shorter afernoons than you.......:-)
Not by the sun... Like the pubs close earlier than over here, so
you have to get started sooner, or have less time available for
reflecting on the days Rover-work? Get a small fridge and fill
with beer. We generally have a pair of home-brewed kegs sitting in
the fll sized fridge, with a few pints of the domestic garbage as
back-up. Makes work go much more smoothly... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 61
From twakeman@apple.com Wed Nov 10 10:55:39 1993
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 08:44:20 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov, land-rover-owner-out@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers
Status: RO
In message <9311100047.AA04865@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov> MAC writes:
>
>
> Hi. I've been lurking for a while and do not own a Land Rover yet.
> I have a question for you gents north of the border, or for anybody
> who has been through this before. Is it possible to buy a LR in
> Canada and bring it back into the US? If so, what are the various
> hoop jumping/taxes/fees involved to do it? The reason I am asking
> is that I am interested in getting one of the 88" Military Lightweights
> and I have seen a few from Canada for sale on the Rovers North list.
> Are these available in the states? Does anybody on this list have one?
>
> Thanks for any/all information,
> Mike "MAC" Bur
> bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov
I have seen one lightweight in the US. I believe it lives in Washington and is
registered as an 1965 88. There is also an early ninties 110 that came from
Canada to Alaska. Got registered as a 60 something 109, then moved down to the
Pacific Northwest and reregistered per the Alaskan registration. I do not
recommend doing this of course. But it is how a small number of cars get in.
Another is if a non-US citizen comes into the country on a work visa and brings
their own car with them. The car gets a US registration for the time it is in
the US. The assumption is that the owner will take it back to his or her native
country when they leave. Some instead get sold. Thats how a couple of TR5s
that I know of got into the US.
By all means, check legal ways to do this.
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 62
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 14:49:12 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: One day out by a barn...
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1993 14:17:49 -0600 (CST)
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3599
Status: RO
August 3, 1990 -- I remember the day well. I had driven
about 150 miles to checkout a used landrover 88 that was
priced at $875. "Very restorable" said the seller.
I had let the want-ad age for about 4 months before I
called him back for the second time. Yes, it was still for
sale.
I had been haggling with my wife Janice for about a year
attempting to convince her that a philosophy of owning
three cars -- with two on the road at any given time was
a good one for us to adopt.
I had read sales literature distributed from the parts
houses and memorized their list of cars for purchase.
Hemmings issues were also checked out. It was not clear
that I could afford (at least in my wife's mind) a car in
the $2000 to $3000 range and that maybe this $875 vehicle
was my opportunity!
It was setting out behind a barn -- just like I had expected.
No top, hadn't run for "..3 or 4 years..". Even though it
had been rained on a couple of hundred times, the only
thing that looked a little worrysome was the instruments.
Of course, there was some a little rust in the footwell
area, but not too bad. And the seat rails were completely
rusted out, but I thought I could easily replace them.
The rear-end had been replaced with one "..from an
international scout.." he thought -- I figured I would
find another if it were mine. Bronze green -- it had
been resprayed once and poorly at that.
We couldn't pull-start it 'cause it had two flat tires.
We put a battery into it and it fired acouple of times
before the battery went dead. That was enough for me.
He stated that a couple of people had driven out from St.Louis
and were going to return to buy it -- was he totally truthful?
We began the ritual over price. I offered $500 and to my supprise
he accepted it without even a counter offer. (did I offer
too much?). But I had to call my wife first to get her
final permission. I still remember her crying at the other
end of the phone. She said NO. I think the seller questioned
my man-hood -- having to get permission from "the wife" but I
had been married long enough to try to avoid problems.
I spent the next hour or so checking for rust in all the right
places, going to the seller's house to find the title....
He surely didn't feel confident about this sale going thru,
so he stated "...I need $450 to pay the rent -- I will let
it go for that..." I called home one more time. Tough
conversation with some more crying. But this time she said
"...its up to you, do what you think is right..." and I
bought it!
I had brought the towbar that I had just purchased for $25.
I drove into town and borrowed an airtank and filled up the
tires. The tow back was uneventful -- I still remember
looking in the rear-view mirror and seeing the top of the
bonnet and windscreen and feeling proud to be a Land Rover
owner.
I have begun the restoration project, but other things
like new bathrooms, painting the house, plumbing problems
and living gets in the way. I am close to putting things
back together again, but vacation homes and more
bathrooms are close-in also. Perhaps a November new year's
resolution is in order.
Anyway, this is the story about Rover#1 -- will fill in some
restoration details later. (Disk to tape backup is done).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
- 80 MGB - xx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 63
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 18:29:23 1993
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 16:25:05 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: permission
Status: RO
In message <9311102251.AA73478@y1.sdsc.edu> dushin russell writes:
>
Assundrys deleted
She is not,
> however, on this net, and there is only one woman I know of who is (and
> I hope this does not get me into trouble once again, but-) perhaps we can
> enlist TeriAnn as "regional counselor", if she would be so kind. Having
> experienced the persuasive powers of women before, I can forsee that this
> would be a VALUED contribution in promoting the art of rover restorations.
> (Just think of all the rotting rovers you can singlehandedly save!)
>
> Whatta ya say?
>
> rdushin (don't hit me)
Geeez, dushin, I because I got upset once doesn't mean I do it at every
oppertunity.
I do not think I would be very good at being a counselor for couples. Partly
because I am not now in a relationship and have been away from a serious one for
a number of years now. I have some very definite ideas about relationships.
Such things as them being equal partnerships where as much importance and time
be spend with each person nuturing their own individual needs and goals as the
pair's needs and goals. Each person should have their own time and money as well
as pair's time and money. That if each person is independent, confident and
happy within themselves, they each bring a strength into a relationship. I
believe a relationship where one party is dependent upon the other for self
worth or acceptance as being a weak one. Sorry but when I see a relationship
where one person is unable to think about her/himself without first asking
permission, or is expected to do what the other wants regardless, my advice is
usually cull the offending spouse. How can someone be truely happy if the only
thing they can do is what the other one wants them to do, or like throwing a
bone to a dog, graciously allows them to do. Thats a form of slavery in my
book.
My ideals may be a bit too strange for most people to handle. See why I would
not make a good partners counselor?
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 64
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 08:44:10 1993
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:41:14 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: re: balls and bushes
Status: RO
Mike writes:
>As for replacing the Railko without removing the swivel housing,I had
got as far as the thought that a "bridge" shaped piece of steel,with
a hole drilled in the top,and feet filed to more or less the curve of
the housing,could be used.The idea was to enlarge the lubrication hole
in the bottom of the bush,(the old one),and draw it out with a bolt and
nut.The new one will go in with a hammer and a suitable bit of wood
anyway.The last one did.
This idea intrigues me. Ya mean a Railco bush actually fits within the
hole (bottom, I guess, in your case) on the housing (that the steering
lever and bushes fit into)? I am 90% certain that my old cones will
not (the springs come out easy, but the cone diameter is slightly larget
than that of the hole in the housing (top, in my case). Perhaps I should
consider this Railco bush idea (once again).......
rdushin
Message No 65
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Wed Nov 10 17:00:39 1993
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 22:51:37 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: permission
Status: RO
Ray writes:
>But I had to call my wife first to get her
final permission. I still remember her crying at the other
end of the phone. She said NO.
but also writes:
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
I am not so sure I read this correctly. SHE's got the range rover, and
you've got the authentic (but less comfortable) land rovers, right? How
much did you spend to get her set-up and happy in that luxury 4WD? hmm.
but then again, we see your time is precious:
>other things
like new bathrooms, painting the house, plumbing problems
and living gets in the way. I am close to putting things
back together again, but vacation homes and more
bathrooms are close-in also.
and that you do not want to make waves:
>I
had been married long enough to try to avoid problems.
so we can understand your concern(s).
Surely, there are others out there with a similar affliciton. I for one,
have been spared of this ordeal-my sig other is a budding rover enthusiast
who frequently helps out with spare hands and sound advice. She is not,
however, on this net, and there is only one woman I know of who is (and
I hope this does not get me into trouble once again, but-) perhaps we can
enlist TeriAnn as "regional counselor", if she would be so kind. Having
experienced the persuasive powers of women before, I can forsee that this
would be a VALUED contribution in promoting the art of rover restorations.
(Just think of all the rotting rovers you can singlehandedly save!)
Whatta ya say?
rdushin (don't hit me)
Message No 67
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 09:08:46 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: permission
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 09:03:53 -0600 (CST)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9311102251.AA73478@y1.sdsc.edu> from "dushin russell" at Nov 10, 93 10:51:37 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2155
Status: RO
> Surely, there are others out there with a similar affliciton. I for one,
> have been spared of this ordeal-my sig other is a budding rover enthusiast
My note of yesterday "..out behind a barn.." was written about an
experience that happened about 3 years ago. Much has happened
since then. Probably the best is that I have had for the last
year a running SIIa 88 that I drive every day. That vehicle is
viewed by her as transportation and not a hole that time and money
is thrown towards. She will ride in it especially in the winter
since the Kodiak throws all kinds of hot air right at her feet.
And summer rides with the door-tops off were also enjoyable.
Another good thing that happened is that I convinced her that
attending a Land Rover adventure weekend in Wichita last spring
would be fun. And it was. We met several couples that were
normal people and yet rover-freaks also. She is looking forward
to attending again next year and I hope also to get to one in the
Colorado mountains. (anybody know when/where on this -- I haven't
gotten my AL WORKHORSE for quite a while now).
If I were making $300/month payments for my vehicle like everybody
else, that would be acceptable. But spending $300 this month
for parts is viewed as throwing money away.
I have this vision of having enough Land Rovers around to ensure
that I have transportation (one on the road and one in the
garage -- the old Jag line) but I am not there yet. A restoration
vehicle is certainly one in the garage but not in the sense that
I mean. The car in the garage is there for repairs to get it
back on the road.
And a parts car is not one in the garage in the sense I mean
(besides, it is in boxes in the basement). If I am committed to
Land Rovers for the next 30 years, I feel more secure if I have
a certain number of parts in my possession and I can ride out
times when parts are hard to come by (solex rebuild kits -- they
will be available someday again).
Anyway, just wanted to clarify things. My problems today is when
my priorities and her priorities do not match. If I am working
on my LR, then I am not remodeling our bathroom, etc, etc.
Message No 68
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 09:19:27 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Permission?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 15:16:18 GMT
Status: RO
For what it is worth,I dont think your definitions sound at all odd,
Teriann.The money aspect apart,sounds like the basis for a lasting
marriage,actually.My qualifications for so saying? 26 years of same.
It just strikes a jarring note to see it itemised in print,so to speak.
You have,however,left out perhaps the most important requisite,namely
a sense of humour,preferably incuding the ability to laugh at oneself.
Having said that,though,it never ceases to amaze me how people's
domestic arrangements differ,and yet the "relationship" seems to work.
So I/ve stopped judging them,after all its their affair (no pun intended)
and not mine.
This si the way my Land Rover acquired me.
Once upon a time I had a Citroen.Our Transatlatic readership will,I think
not be familiar with these esoteric machines,but this one was a flat four
aircooled hatchback,with hydropneumatic self levelling suspension,height
adjustable(for deep puddles),*power* brakes,and I *mean* power,not servo
assisted by vacuum,they were the best brakes I've ever known,all in all
a collection of the best ideas ever,appallingly put together.A bit like
the Avro Shackleton which is known a fifty thousand rivets flying in loose
formation.Get the picture?When it got "camshaft disease" there was no way
I could strip that engine myself,without a complete kit of special Gallic
tools to do it with.So I had it done.500quid that dog of a car cost me.
So,it had to go.But what to get instead?Well,I gotta horse.Therefore all
my cars were getting filthy.I also wanted something with no b.... awful
electronics in it.And a good old English pushrod OHV engine like the ones
I was brought up on.
When I broached the subject to my wife the reply was "I'm not riding around
in one of those".Here comes the crafty bit.I said NOTHING.Not a word.Not a
single squeak.Just went to the local library and got the Haynes manual out.
Two weeks later she said that she had seen two Land Rovers advertised in
last weeks local paper.Sneaky.She'd binned the paper.Shit.One round all.
When we eventually discussed the subject and I reminded her of the remark
she said that since it was me who did the maintaining,and most of the
driving,I might as well have somethig I liked.Since we did(and still do)
little long distance stuff,it was deemed cheaper to hire a car for that
than spend a fortune on a bit of modern tin,that I would heartily loathe,
and which would dpreciate faster than the water ran out of Liza's bucket.
Having sorted *that* out,AND the fact I couldnt afford to run a petrol
version,the only thing left to do was find one.You know,the easy bit.
WHO SAID IT WAS EASY!three months later I was still looking.Up until
then,I was reliably informed that there were plenty for sale each week
in one of the local papers(the one we didnt get).After I'd decided the
entire county conspired to hang onto what they'd got.Miserable sods.
Eventually an advert *did* turn up,and off we went to have a shufti at
it.Fine.Chassis OK,sounded all right,diesel engine,what I wanted,price
fair,private sale,so I said yes.
Driving it home,I've never been so frightened in my life.Hard shoulder
to white line without moving the steering wheel!And it let wet in!
What *have* I done?Took me a week to figure out that what I was driving
was as near as makes no odds the same sort of thing as the first car I
ever had,which was a 1931 J2 type MG (sigh),and that was the way it
wanted to be driven.Remember four wheel drifts?
Of course I should have known that anyone (like the young lad that sold
it me) who says"of course I'm an engineer",should be treated with deep
suspicion.All tool kit and no brains.I cured the rain coming in(oh,all
right,SOME of the rain coming in),by putting in the roof bolts he'd
deemed surplus to requirements,when he'd put the top back on after the
summer.In fact,I went all over the thing putting in bolts he'd left out.
And rewiring his rewiring.Only mine worked,his worked sometimes.
And replacing the head gasket.He'd done it,but only torqued it down once.
Repaired the dynamo.Put a new starter solenoid in after his cremated itself
one morning.
When,six months later it dropped a valve,just before Christmas,I had to
buy a scrofulous brown Ford to tide me over until the old girl was on
the road again.My wife continuously remarked that she had seen a Land
Rover whilst out walking the dogs,and felt like waving them down just to
say "we've got one of these,honest,but its poorly at present".A convert!
When the time came to take the newly repaired Rover out for the first
time she said"ah,*that* feels better,I feel as though I've been away,and
just come back home".I couldnt have put it better myself.And that was
seven years ago.The longest I've ever kept a car,and I've still got no
intentions of parting with it.The most fun on four wheels.
Well,Confucious says,"Rules say people got to grow old,Rules dont say
people got to grow up".
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 71
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 11:13:14 1993
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 09:10:20 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Permission?
Status: RO
In message <9311111516.AA07425@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes:
> For what it is worth,I dont think your definitions sound at all odd,
> Teriann.The money aspect apart,sounds like the basis for a lasting
> marriage,actually.My qualifications for so saying? 26 years of same.
> It just strikes a jarring note to see it itemised in print,so to speak.
> You have,however,left out perhaps the most important requisite,namely
> a sense of humour,preferably incuding the ability to laugh at oneself.
I'm OK in the humor dept, but havn't had near the experience with the laughter
stuff as I have had with the emotional pain stuff. But I think your right.
Laughter is a VERY important part.
> Having said that,though,it never ceases to amaze me how people's
> domestic arrangements differ,and yet the "relationship" seems to work.
The couple I rent my house from is a couple that amazes me. They are the most
unhappy couple I know of. Each partner plays vicious games with the other and
is constantly complaining about each other. They have been married 21 years,
and have been like that for the 12 years that I have rented from them. They are
very unhappy, but they both must be getting something out of it they need.
> So I/ve stopped judging them,after all its their affair (no pun intended)
> and not mine.
Mike, I agree. I do not feel qualified to judge other's relationships ether.
Thats why I said I would not make a good partners counceler. Though, I do
admit, I get envious when I see or read about repationships that work long term.
I've never had a long term positive experience with them. Thats why I put my
efforts into things. Things are safe.
Nice nastolgic stuff deleted
> Mike Rooth
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 72
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 12:35:16 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: My big mouth
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 10:13:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Dixon asked me to post the reason that I had received the prestigious
Ottawa, Valley Land Rover Lug Nut Award. I had hoped that if I "forgot"
to reply, that the newsgroup would also forget. Dixon didn't, and
suggested that I respond.
First some background. The Lug Nut award is given to the club member
who not only manages to do something mindboggeling stupid, but does it in
front of other members, so that there is evidence.
The Charge. The defedant was seen, in front of many witnesses, driving a
Land Rover topless, (the Land Rover, not the driver), during the monsoon
season, on a long trip from Ottawa to Rovers North. (That should read
defendant). Other club members informed me, once we arrived, that "Oh it
rains every year we come down.". The prosecution maintains that in fact
it rained buckets for the whole trip.
The evidence - many amazed drivers and kids in the back seat of K cars,
pointing and laughing.
The defense. I love to drive without a roof. Although some people would
find it hard to believe, I was quite comfortable, having good clothing.
The verdict, guilty.(was there ever any doubt)
The Sentence, To have it known, for all eternity, on a small plaque on a
wooden Land Rover, that two years ago, Dale Desprey was "The no top
nitwit"
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 77
Just an observation, From experience, while we are talking about
relationships.
Why do some women try so desperately try to change us men, moulding us
into what they consider to be perfect men, (I can see it coming, a
contradiction in terms) to show off to their friends, then decide once
they think they have succeeded, decide that their men have "lost
something", and go for other men by saying "Why can't you be more like
them" , when you both know that you were.
Fortunately, now I am too old to change, at least thats the excuse.
Dale desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 78
From car-list-rejects@stratus.com Thu Nov 11 17:02:17 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: My big mouth
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1993 15:19:19 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> The Charge. The defedant was seen, in front of many witnesses, driving a
> Land Rover topless, (the Land Rover, not the driver), during the monsoon
> season, on a long trip from Ottawa to Rovers North. (That should read
> defendant). Other club members informed me, once we arrived, that "Oh it
> rains every year we come down.". The prosecution maintains that in fact
> it rained buckets for the whole trip.
Dale, Dale, Dale.... The buckets of rain have made your memories
turn towards the mud that you so like to play in. Methinks that
you are leaving out a little information. What you write above is
correct, but somehow the editor, or some system through which this
message was transmitted, managed to lose the conclusion...
For those interested, Dale did indeed drive down in a monsoon.
What made his adventure even more spectacular, and secured our top
award with a death hold grip, was the following:
At Rover's North they held an auction. One of the items up for
bidding was a canvas top. Dale declined to purchase this top,
despite constant torrential rains, at an advantageuos price, thus
condeming himself to drive back up to Ottawa in the rain and
capture our most covetted prize.
If you had purchased the top, you would have been considered a
visionary, risking certain soaking, the pity of fellow bidders, to
obtain the item you most dearly required. That you compounded your
desire to get wet, requiring your normal driving habit of goggles
and industrial ear defenders....
> The Sentence, To have it known, for all eternity, on a small plaque on a
> wooden Land Rover, that two years ago, Dale Desprey was "The no top
> nitwit"
I think that Jason, or Jerry is in first place thus far for this
years award. He used his Land Rover to assist in the construction
of a two story log wall for his garage. The wall was being
secured to the Land Rover while all of the logs went up. However,
when all was said and done, and it came time to move his Land Rover
away, he managed to confuse forward and reverse gears and drove
into the wall, bringing it back down... <ROFL> Of course there
were OVLR witnesses to the event...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 81
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 15 03:51:59 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Exhaust...ing
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 9:50:05 GMT
Status: RO
Friday,the exhaust on the Rover started to blow,by Saturday morning
I was blaring around on an open pipe.So Saturday afernoon,I drove
the ten miles or so to the nearest source of a new,(reasonably priced)
front pipe.Got any spare ear defenders Dale?You *can* get exhaust bits
from most national exhaust fitters over here,but you end up paying over
twice the price.Anyway,I wanted a new battery as well.Same applies.
The front pipe on the diesel is the easiest exhaust component to fit of
any I have ever come across,three bolts at the back(sticky,but not too
bad),and four nuts on the manifold.Pull it of the manifold,and the whole
thing drops on the floor.Replacement,as they say,is the reverse of the
foregoing,and in this case,it is....usually.Having fitted the thing,and
put away the tools I had a quick walk round,only to notice I could no
longer see the tailpipe,which,on closer inspection was now coyly tucked
away behind the bodywork.It was,in the end,necessary to undo *all* the
fixings to enable me to get the tailpipe clear of the body,and to get
the silencer from rattling on the chassis.I know what the trouble is,but
it needs oxy-acet on the front pipe to solve it.*And* the silencer has
started to rattle on the frame again.Took me all afternoon.Is it just
me or does everyone have this trouble?Oh,and now I have no brakes.Thank
god for diesel engine braking,certainly teaches the correct use of the
gearbox on overrun.The battery works OK though........
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 83
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 17 10:19:28 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Mudflaps
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 16:11:49 GMT
Status: RO
Ray asks about mudflaps.IMO no Land Rover should be without them.
I'll go further,and state that I think rear mudflaps should be
compulsory on *all* vehicles,out of respect for the poor devil
following in your rooster tail in the wet.Of course the European
Common Market is concentrating on making all sorts of unecessary
crap mandatory,that *doesnt* help anyone,but mudflaps theyve never
heard of.Off road,they should be tied up out of the way,or youll
lose 'em.As for front ones,they *do* stop the crud crudding up
underneath the vehicle,but I've only ever seen two Land Rover's
so equipped.Mine isnt,but the first thing I bought after the
Rover were a pair of rear ones,they are still there (just) after
seven years.Tip.I fastened mine onto the vehicle with stainless steel
2BA bolts,after drilling and tapping the rear cross member for them.
Several years later,when one had to come off for some welding to be
done(it was in the way) it came off easily,and whats more went back
on again easily.Just thought you may like to know:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 85
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 04:45:49 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Braking up is hard.....
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:45:42 GMT
Status: RO
Grrrrr.So,I *still* have no brakes.Although its not as bad as I
thought at first,ie,it isnt the master cylinder,but the RH front
wheel cylinder that has air in it.Bleed it,youll say.Yes,well,I
*tried* that,didnt I,and what happened?The bleed nipple come orf
in me 'and sarge,honest.Fine,great,wonderful,spent all morning
freezing me assets off,and that happens.So,go and buy a new cylinder.
Now,being sharp,and *really* with it,I happened to notice that the
replacement cylinder had no nuts attached to the attachment studs.
Oy! ses I,wot about some nuts?Use the ones you take off he says.
Guess what?The bloody things wont *come* off.So having bought some
suitable nuts (god,the expense,50pence for ten),I am praying for
no rain and a sharp cold chisel this weekend.
One *would* have thought that nuts would have been included at a
miserable 10pence per cylinder.
One interesting fact that came out of the purchase was that Genuine
Girling wheel cylinders are 20.50 plus the VAT(of course),whilst
"pattern" units are 10.50(pounds,that is) +VAT each.Of course the
Gen stuff *may* include nuts,but it is still one hell of a differential.
It seems to me its little use the LRO magazine wittering on about always
using genuine parts,when said parts are TWICE the price of a British
made pattern spare indistinguishable from the original.And,in all
probability made by the same firm.The name Girling isnt worth paying
double for,in fact it isnt worth paying *anything* extra for,in my view.
Same goes for brake shoes,although there was only five quid difference
in that case.Again,the only difference was that Gen Girling used to
have new 1/4 Whit locking screws and lock tabs included.10p extra?
Who needs them? I've got the proverbial boxfull.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 86
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 17 18:44:35 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Exhaust...ing
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 10:48:58 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Friday,the exhaust on the Rover started to blow,by Saturday morning
> I was blaring around on an open pipe.So Saturday afernoon,I drove
> the ten miles or so to the nearest source of a new,(reasonably priced)
> front pipe.Got any spare ear defenders Dale?You *can* get exhaust bits
> bad),and four nuts on the manifold.Pull it of the manifold,and the whole
> thing drops on the floor.Replacement,as they say,is the reverse of the
The best ear defenders that I have found are the Heavy duty machine shop
type. They seem to filter out low frequency vibration, such as the drone
of my heavy lug bias ply tires (tyres) and high frequency, like the
incessant rattle of my gear shift lever, and valves. The down side is
that they are large green things, and I worry that the local
constabulary will take a dim view of the driver of a motor vehicle
diminishing one of his senses. One good thing is that it allows you to
hear the passenger talking, as it doesn't seem to filter voice much.
This point is almost mute, as the short definition of talking over the
noise of a diesel, is shouting. Other types of ear protection can fit
inside the ear. I like the foam ones because the have a string attached
so that you can get them out again and they are discrete. The gell ones
are gross.
> started to rattle on the frame again.Took me all afternoon.Is it just
> me or does everyone have this trouble?Oh,and now I have no brakes.Thank
> god for diesel engine braking,certainly teaches the correct use of the
> gearbox on overrun.The battery works OK though........
Oh, the horror stories. A front pipe on a diesel should be the easiest
thing in the world to do. When I had mine "professionally" done (
translation- teen gets to practice on bending machine), not only was it
far too close to the ground, but unbeknownst to me, they had not used any
hangers on the pipe. I go for a drive, and the exhaust breaks off. It
had only been held on by the exhaust manifold and the muffler. The
manifold had broken, and I was not happy. Next time I'll go with the pre
bent original parts, and do it myself.
Diesels are great for slowing down, aren't they. Lift off your right
foot, and instant deceleration.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 90
From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 10:37:16 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: should have written it down
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 16:39:24 GMT
In-Reply-To: <9311181407.AA13626@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 18, 93 8:07 am
Status: RO
Ray,
It is,in fact Freight Rover,not fleet rover.Freight Rover was the light
commercial division of the Rover Group,which produced a thing called
the Sherpa van,which at one time used the Land Rover diesel engine as one
of its options.It was somewhat smaller than your Ford "people carrier"
vans.The division became Leyland DAF,when it was bought by the Dutch DAF
company,which,in turn went bust this year,but the Dutch saved their own
domestic division with government money,and left the English concern to
sink.So much for the EEC.It still exists,thanks to a management buyout.
At one time Land Rover/Freight Rover were lumped together in the Rover
Group,I suspect so that the profit made by Land Rover(and the Range Rover)
would prop up Freight Rover's outdated product.Let's face it,Land Rover was
born propping up Rover Cars,and has always done so.Its only recently that
investment has been made in Land Rover,which is after all the only firm in
the world totally dedicated to the production of 4X4 vehicles.
This became obvious several years ago under The Dreadful Margaret,when the
owld cow was trying to sell off the whole group,cars as well.I think GMC
were very keen to aquire it.They mad ethe mistake of saying they were really
only interested in Land Rover,the rest would probably go.There was a nationwide
protest,all Land Rovers sported "Keep Land Rover British"stickers,London was
jammed with protesting Land/Range Rovers,which eventually forced The Dreadful
to abandon the idea.The suspicion was that since your policy was to service
defence requirements with American products only,this was a good way of selling
Land Rovers to the US Army.Tough!
Having said that,during the Gulf War,every Discovery in Saudi Arabia was
clobbered by fairly high ranking US officers(who were reluctant to part with
them later),and some of your Rangers have had some Land Rovers built for them
stripped down as gunships.They resemble our SAS vehicles,but are modified for
a different weapon fit.AND they wont admit theyve got them,but where else in
the world would such things go,set up for LHD with the speedo's reading in MPH?
Think on.....
Cheers
Mike
;wq
Message No 91
From twakeman@apple.com Thu Nov 18 12:42:49 1993
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:45:21 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: late night reading...
Status: RO
In message <9311181418.AA16982@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> writes:
> I got the past 12 months of LRO mailing list digests from
> Mark Grieshaber. Was reading down thru 93.3 last night
> and it was thrilling entertainment! (at least for a LandRover freak).
>
> The race between Terriann Wakeman and Dixon Kenner to rebuild
> their 109s and engines kept me on the edge of my couch.
> And the fact that some of the e-mails were out of order
> added to the thrill. I didn't get to the final chapter
> but I am anxious to know how it ended. Terriann had just
> fired up her rebuilt engine but lacked a transmission and
> dixon was fumbling with his keys and lockset when I
> retired.
>
> I could forward these digests to someone else if you want
> to follow the action.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
>
> - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
> - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
> - 80 MGB - xx
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray,
Meanwhile My Land Rover is down because the master clutch cylinder (the one that
I thought was on its last legs when I did a temperary rebuld in about 1982) has
decided to become an air injection system.
Of course in a relapse of shipfitters disease I FAXed an order to Merseyside
Land Rover Services for a new drivers side side curtin to replaced the badly out
of square one with cracked window, a sender unit and filler hose for a rear
petrol tank, a fuel cap locking latch, a new master brake cylinder for
converting over to a power assisted duel brake system , and oh yes, a new master
clutch cylinder. They arrived at my house one week after I FAXed the order via
UPS. This is faster than UPS ground from Rovers North and the total bill was
MUCH less. Both Master cylinders were Girling, and the hose was labled genuine
Land Rover Parts. Rovers North would scare you into believing you get only junk
by ordering direcly from the UK.
So, this weekend the front wing comes off. The clutch and brake peddel
assemblies come off & a new cluthc cylinder goes on the old peddel assembly and
the used peddel/booster assembly goes in with a new master brake cylinder. I
just hope there is nothing funny with the brake line connectors as I go to split
the system and run a new tube up for the rear brakes.
In my spare time, I will continue with the great TR3 restoration, now finally in
the assembly phase.
The advanture continues, or why me?
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 92
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 12:01:03 1993
From: jory@MIT.EDU
Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:05:51 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: wheel cylinders/ aftermarket vs original
Status: RO
mike rooth says:
One interesting fact that came out of the purchase was that Genuine
Girling wheel cylinders are 20.50 plus the VAT(of course),whilst
"pattern" units are 10.50(pounds,that is) +VAT each.Of course the
Gen stuff *may* include nuts,but it is still one hell of a differential.
It seems to me its little use the LRO magazine wittering on about always
using genuine parts,when said parts are TWICE the price of a British
made pattern spare indistinguishable from the original.And,in all
probability made by the same firm.The name Girling isnt worth paying
double for,in fact it isnt worth paying *anything* extra for,in my view.
Same goes for brake shoes,although there was only five quid difference
in that case.Again,the only difference was that Gen Girling used to
have new 1/4 Whit locking screws and lock tabs included.10p extra?
Who needs them? I've got the proverbial boxfull.
while i couldn't agree more on the pads, i once purchased aftermarket
cylinders (from the dreaded DAP) and they pretty promptly died, causing me
no end of problems/annoyance/cost... replaced them with original and have
been much happier since... perhaps if all the critical non-genuine parts i
bought didn't die i would be more willing to continue giving them a go...
Message No 97
From marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Thu Nov 18 11:26:36 1993
From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Re: should have written it down
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:28:32 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9311181407.AA13626@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 18, 93 08:07:49 am
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1569
Status: RO
>
> Looking at my mudflaps last night I noted the label "...Genuine
> Parts fleet/rover land/rover range/rover..." or something to
> that effect. Anyway Mike, what is a fleet/rover (or was
> it freight/rover -- should have written it down).
> I figure it was something for the trades and not exported.
>
> I know LULU is certainly not a fleet/rover -- need to rebuild
> that solex.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
>
> - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
> - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
> - 80 MGB - xx
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Freight Rover was a company building vans and light trucks, and was orginally
part of the vast British Leyland empire before it was broken up into separate
businesses. They were part of Land Rover for a time and shared numerous
components with later Land Rovers (ie 70s and 80s).
They still exist under the name of Leyland Daf, and, as far as I know,
continue to source parts from the same suppliers as Land Rover. In fact, a
number of parts are interchangeable, particularly engine parts, as Leyland Daf
use the 3.5 litre V8 in some of their vehicles, in particular the rapid
response mini-buses supplied to the Metropolitan Police. Some of their diesel
engines are virtually identical to normally aspirated Land Rover units of the
mid-eighties.
I hope this goes some way to answering your query.
Marcus.
Message No 104
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 16:17:21 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Rules for Collecting Land Rovers
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:11:34 -0600 (CST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 5364
Status: RO
Some of you might have seen something like this before, but
others might enjoy it -- I know I got a few smiles from it.
We had a discussion similar to this about 4 weeks ago and
it was suggested then we move the discussion to usenet(alt.soc) --
I might attempt to cross-post it.
*******************************************************************
I got the following RULES from my MidMissouri British Sports Car
Club November/December Newsletter. Joe Randolph submitted the
list of rules. I did a global change from MG to LR and slightly
changed the wording to make it more appropriate. I can verify that
at least 3 of the rules are very valid. 11/18/93 RAH
*******************************************************************
RULES FOR COLLECTING LR'S
RULE 1: Collect only one make and model of LRs, nothing but
early 88s or later 109s, for example. When all your LRs
are the same color and shape, it is harder, if not impossible
for anyone (you catch my drift?) to figure out how many LRs
you actually have.
RULE 2: Never line up your LRs, no never! Nothing distresses
a difficult spouse more than seeing twelve old LRs lined up,
looking for all the world like a pile of burning hundred dollar
bills. Scatter the LRs around, a couple behind the garage,
one or two in the garage, another beside the garage, maybe a
couple at a friends house, so that it not possible for anyone
(if you know who I mean) to see more than two or three from
any one perspective. Your hobby will be less "irritating" that
way.
RULE 3: For pretty much the same reason, don't number your LRs,
but give them names. You'd be suprised how much less trouble
you will have if you talk about "Scarlet" rather than
"LandRover #3".
RULE 4: Early in your collecting, buy an LR you don't want.
Then sell it as quickly as you can. Don't worry about making
any money on the transaction, the main thing is buy an LR and
get rid of it. Then you can say, "...Yes my sweet, I do have
six LRs in the garage while our car is out in the weather. That
doesn't mean I will always have six LRs. Remember the one I got
rid of? I am thinking of selling another one any day now
so we can put our car into the garage..." If you have a friend
who collects LRs, make arrangements for him to drop off an LR
now and again. That way you can say, if anyone asks, that you
bought it. Then have him haul it off again and say you sold it.
With this system, you establish your reputation for moderation.
RULE 5: Pay for your LRs with cashier's checks, postal
money orders, or cash which leaves far less evidence than
checks drawn on the family account. Once you have gotten
possession of another LR and paid for it, eat the stubs,
carbon copies or receipts immediately. Such things have
a way of becoming an embarrassment later, take it from
me! (mega-ditto for mastercharge receipts -- RAH).
RULE 6: Now and then buy a wreck for "parts" even if you
don't need the parts. In fact you might consider hauling
a wreck or two on the same trailer or truck, whenever you
haul home a good LR. This is called "liability averaging".
If your significant other says something about having enough
money for yet another LR, but not enough for a new
refrigerator, point indignantly to the LRs on the trailer --
The beautiful one, solid and in running condition for which
you paid $1,500 and the rusted hulks you got for $50 each.
Then huff, "Snookums, I got those for little more than $500
each and the one in the back is easily worth $2,000. That
That's a tidy profit of $500." See? Doesn't that make
you sound like an investment wizard?
RULE 7: When things get critical, consider dragging home an LR
without transmission or rear wheels. If there's a complaint
you say, "...LR?, What LR? That's not an LR! That's only a
front end, not even close to an LR..." Then a couple of
weeks later, bring home a rear end minus the radiator,
engine and front wheels. "..LR?, What LR? That's no LR,
that's only a rear end, not even close to an LR!.." Don't
try this, however, more than once every couple of years.
RULE 8: Have a dealer or friend call you now and then
when you're not at home, and tell your spouse, "..Bob
told me to keep an eye on the LR going at the auction on
Saturday, but it sold for $5,000, and I know there
is no way a financially cautious and responsible guy
like Bob would pay that much, so I didn't even make a
bid on it for him.." Not only will this
make you look really good, but the next time you buy an
LR say something like "..Luvi-bear, this beauty only cost
me $1,000, which means we are $4,000 ahead of where we'd
have been if I'd have gotten the one before. If
I keep saving money like this, we'll be able to afford
to go on that Caribbean cruise next winter..". If you say
this fast enough, it might just work!
RULE 9: If your mate insults your work calling it "Rustoration",
laugh a light hearted laugh, making it clear that LRs are
not to you what shoes were to Imelda Marcos.
RULE 10: If your situation worstens to the point where your
mate asks, "..Who do you love more, me or your LRs?..",
whatever you do, don't ask for time to think it over!
*******************************************************************
Message No 105
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 18 20:14:29 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Braking up is hard.....
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 15:42:22 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Grrrrr.So,I *still* have no brakes.Although its not as bad as I
> thought at first,ie,it isnt the master cylinder,but the RH front
> wheel cylinder that has air in it.Bleed it,youll say.Yes,well,I
> *tried* that,didnt I,and what happened?The bleed nipple come orf
> in me 'and sarge,honest.Fine,great,wonderful,spent all morning
> freezing me assets off,and that happens.So,go and buy a new cylinder.
Now I remember! A while back, I was asked what, if any were the advantage
of steel wheel cylinders. The bleed screw is steel, and the body on the
original parts is aluminum. With our salt, The bleed screw won't come
out. In the past, I would have to remove the wheel cyl, having the same
problem where the brake line came in, and dissasemble, heat the bleed
screw out, reassemble ( with new rubber), and bleed. Steel on steel may
help. For a test, the rear cyls are steel, and front aluminum. I'll
post if I find one any different than the other. It should be noted that
I use anti-seize compound on everything.
Bleeding Land Rover brakes is a pain. There are two methods that have
worked for me.
1. Get some self bleeding bleed screws. These darlings are spring loaded
so that you can pump the brakes, and it seals automatically. Attach a
pipe which leads to a pail, Undo, pump a few times, tighten. Do one at a
time starting from the farthest (in pipe length) from the master cyl, to
the nearest. This is an inexpensive way to do it and you don't have to
worry about whether your assistant is really holding his/her foot to the
floor. The reality is that my friends disappear when I work on the Land
Rover. The cursing scares them away.
2. Buy a horendously expensive vacuum pump, as I did. This device sucks
brake fluid into a resevoir. It works, but alot of air can be sucked by
the threads of the bleed screw. Then lend the device to Dixon Kenner,
and hope he can find it in his basement. I would describe it, but I have
forgotten what it looks like.
Hope this helps
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 107
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 04:38:49 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Pattern Spares
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 10:39:29 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Jory makes a good point.I suppose if I had a CJ7 Jeep,or some such,
I would make pretty sure I used genuine parts(or if not,that the supplier
was close enough for me to go and duff him up if he supplied me with
rubbish).The competition between suplliers in this country is pretty
fierce,there are plenty of them,AND I went to collect the bits in person,
AND he knows damned well that should they give trouble I will be back
thumping the table (at least) with vengeance.Plus,of course,this particular
supplier;two brothers to be precise;are very active in the "local" four wheel
drive club,so they dont want the bad publicity.
Further,this *is* a small country,there are a lot of Land Rovers about,and
reputations can fall very quickly.
It would be interesting to know what the difference in price is between
gen and pattern spares for your domectic products,and if,indeed,there is
a market at all for pattern spares in the US and Canada.My point was that
a 100% surcharge for little more than the name on a box is excessive and
cannot be justified,even if the lifetime of the pattern part is a little
less.(Incidentally,that should read *domestic* products).
I should perhaps add that these people usetheir own stuff on their own
Land Rovers,and carry genuine parts as well,so you take your pick.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 109
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 05:55:08 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: something to make a FLAP over
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 23:26:28 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> group's opinion of these -- are mudflaps good? Do they
> work ok and look ok with 15 inch tires. These are meant
> to mount on the back, but I noticed some of the RR's have
> mudflaps on both the front and the back? comments?
It is really a matter of personal opinion. I think they look
terrible on a Land Rover, though they may be rather useful. It is
really what one is used to, and I have only seen one Land Rover
about here with them.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 110
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 05:55:11 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: late night reading...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 23:15:42 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> The race between Terriann Wakeman and Dixon Kenner to rebuild
> their 109s and engines kept me on the edge of my couch.
> And the fact that some of the e-mails were out of order
> added to the thrill. I didn't get to the final chapter
> but I am anxious to know how it ended.
Well, both are still undergoing supplemental work, the Swamp Beast
having suffered *slightly* in the post assembly trials held in the
depths of deepest darkest Almonte. Until both are completely ready
for a competition, neither of us has really completed the chore.
Of course, at the rate that I am replacing parts, running it
through the woods, it will be years before it is ready... :-)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 111
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 00:11:30 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Winterisation...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 20:52:44 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
'The time has come,' the weather said,
'to talk of many things:
Of snow - and ice and thrmostats -
of petrol engines that don't turn over -
and why the coolant isn't boiling hot -
and whether Land Rovers have wings.'
'A new thromostat,' the owner said
'Is what we chiefly need:
Block and inline heaters besides
Are very good indeed -
Now if you're ready, Readers dear
You can begin to read.
Sounds nice eh? Well, it wasn't nice by a long shot.
The symptoms: an engine that habitually runs at about 35-40c at
an ambient external temperature of arounnd 5c. That runs at about
70c with a piece of cardboard blocking off the radiator. (ignoring
the fact that this loads up the fan blades, leading to a state
whereby they may break off.)
The events:
Drain radiator. Sounds straight forward, but it doesn't work the
way one would hope...
Block heater. Temco part no. 2200015 $21.99 + GST Cdn. RN says
that block heater for the 2.25l don't exist anymore... Dave
Meadows had purchased one of these several years ago for his
rebuild and had never installed it. The block heater appearing out
in Almonte for the rebuild was in its original box. The
instructions showed all of the models that it would fit, and with
this information, a quick trip to Canadian Tire located the same
unit, with the same part number (despite being marketed under a
Canadian Tire label)
Putting in a block heater is not the easiest chore that one could
imagine. The starter has to be removed, along with the heat shield
to allow access to the plug underneath the number 4 cylinder
exhaust port. Now, if the block in the Swamp Beast has the
original plug (the same type as found in the bottom of the diffs.)
life would have been a bit easier. Of course, this is not the
case. It held an old rotten block heater that was not working.
Complicate matters by the lack of a 1 3/8" socket, but with an 1
1/2" socket and much prayer to the Aluminium Goddess. Happily,
prayers were answered and it moved, allowing extrication. As old
block heater leaves the block, destined to the spares bin (who
throws anything Land Roverish out?) so does a lot of coolant.
Hmmm, the drain plug on the block does serve a purpose! Oh well,
so does the removal of the block heater <sigh> Fit a nice new
block heater. End of task one.
Inline heater. US$26.00 from Rovers North, purchased in the
assumption that the statement that block heaters for the 2.25l were
NLA. Well, I had it, it was the right part, so why pay the expense
to return it. Besides, all here have heard about our mild <cough>
winters...
This task begins with the removal of the battery and the happy
effort at removing the lower radiator hose. While this takes
little effort and can seem to be straight forward, it is not the
most convienent piece of hose to remove. All in all, little
problem was encountered, and this task went smoothly.
Change the thermostat. <big sigh> This task obvously starts with
the removal of three bolts. Well, let us correct that statement
and say it started with the removal of two bolts. The third broke
off at the head. The allpication of much force allowed for the
removal of the top of the thermostat housing, and the discovery
that the thermostat inside said housing did not match the one that
was supplied by Rovers North. The taller thermostat housing used
on the IIA 2.25 does not take the wax type thermostat. The
supplied thermostat is too wide to fit in. The one that was in
there doesn't work worth beans. Simply put, it is permanantly
open.
Oh well, with much force the rest of the thermostat houseing is
wrenched off, breaking off the completely unco-operative siezed
bolt. Drilling the bolt out, and retapping the hole (we think)
leaves us in a position whereby we can begin to reassemble this
little mess.
So, committed to this little disaster, something was going to go
in. Locate one surplus Honda thermostat and clean it up. Start
the task of reassembly, adding new gaskets. Put in two bolts
without fault, put in the thrid into the tapped hole. Start to
tighten them down and discover the tapped hole is stripped. Retap
and try again, and all finally works.
That done, we add coolant reinstall the battery, the starter and
try to start her up. The selenoid clicks (badness when you can
hear the selenoid click eh?) and nothing else happens. Oh, about a
half hour later, the various wires have been removed, cleaned and
replaced and still nothing works. Removing the starter again,
cleaning off the surfaced bewteen the starter and the block results
in a nice ground and a motor that starts.
Oh well, so much for an evings work...
Rgds,
Dixon "my engine will be warm, if not me"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 114
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 12:11:07 1993
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 10:02:59 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Winterisation...
Status: RO
In message <9311191431.AA18891@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> writes:
> > ... Locate one surplus Honda thermostat and clean it up....
>
> There was a technical article in a past issue of the Aluminum
> Workhorse describing the LR 2.25L thermostat and it's operation.
>
> What I can remember is that putting in the genuine LR thermostat
> backwards (upside/down?) is not good and using a thermostat that
> looks the same is not good either. What I remember is that
> there is a bypass in the block casting that the genuine LR
> thermostat is designed to utilize correctly. It either opens
> it or shuts it appropriately. If the correct thermostat is
> not installed correctly, then coolant flow is backwards and number
> 4 cylinder might not get proper cooling. I think it is not a
> major problem, but a common problem. I will look for the
> article over the noon hour.
>
> And the question is, of course, how do you know the top from
> the bottom of a genuine LR thermostat.
The Land Rover cooling system has a radiator bypass. If you look at the
housing, you should note a tube coming of the side. When the thermostat os
closed. coolent is pumped through the engine but not the radiator. The bipass
completes the flow circuit.
The correct Land Rover, TR2-4A, and Morgan thermostat has a cylinderical sleeve
on one side. This sleve is attached to the moving part of the thermostat. When
the thermostat is opened, the sleve is moved to cover the raditor bypass tube so
that all the coolent flows through the radiator for cooling.
Some people put a nonsleved thermostat into a Land Rover, ether because of
unavailability of the correct part or ignorance. What happens then is the
pipass opening is in parallel with the higher resistance radiator. Most of the
coolent ends up going through the bipass. It the correct theromstat is
unabtainable, the bipass should be blocked off.
TeriAnn "Hording a small pile of spare correct currently unavailable TR/ Morgan
thermostats"
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 116
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 11:44:55 1993
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 09:34:37 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Braking up is hard.....
Status: RO
In message <B208cc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Dale Desprey writes:
>
> Now I remember! A while back, I was asked what, if any were the advantage
> of steel wheel cylinders. The bleed screw is steel, and the body on the
> original parts is aluminum. With our salt, The bleed screw won't come
> out.
I used to have some steel brake wheel cylinders on my Land Rover. The advantage
is that they are not easily cross threaded and destroyed. The disadvantage is
that if some water gets past the rubber dust cover and the LR sits for a couple
of weeks the piston will rust to the cylinder and will only be useful for
ballast and to keep brake fluid from flowing out of the end of the pipe. I
waded my LR with steel cylinders and found that some of my brakes stopped
working. Hard to stop with only one or two working brakes.
>
> Bleeding Land Rover brakes is a pain. There are two methods that have
> worked for me
I use an E-Z bleed system. It works quite well as long as you keep the pressure
low. 10 pounds is usually good. Too high a pressure & fluid leaks all over the
place.
>
> Dale Desprey
> Ottawa, Ontario
>
Take care,
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 118
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 14:54:57 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:45:21 PST."
<9311181845.AA22256@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 15:53:49 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Well, I finally got the Merseyside catalog, and started pricing out stuff.
The heaviest items, which I suspect would have some amout of freight
associated with them would be things like the a frame (486 quid), and a
galvanized roof rack at 108 quid and 98 quid for a wicked bull bar, throw in
a suspenion on all four corners (30-40 quid each spring, a few more quid in
misc parts), and what not. All that comes out to be something like $1300 U.S.,
plus freight.
All in all, I counted up what would be some $6300 in Rover's North parts
(suspension, engine, fairy OD, figured conversion at $1.50 to the pound
and added 5% for duty and 33% for freight, goodies and still came much
more than 20% less than Rover's North would charge (so much for the
discount program, eh ?).
There must be something to this import/export stuff...
Any thoughts on replace the 4 banger with a straight 6 chevy engine?
I seem to recall that Teriann mentioned something about that a while ago...
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
Message No 124
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 16:07:45 1993
To: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
In-Reply-To: brandenberg's message of Fri, 19 Nov 93 13:24:39 -0800.
<9311192114.AA12198@easynet.crl.dec.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 14:03:23 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
So, Dixon and TeriAnn, how does on arrange alternate shipping for
orders?
Try calling JAE. They're nominally a Lotus parts place, but have their
fingers into all sorts of British suppliers. I ordered a slew of
Triumph parts through them last summer.
They will do business with you two ways: you tell them what you want
(part number, possible supplier) and they will fetch it, ship it to
their California address international UPS (typically one or two days)
and then ship to you UPS COD. They handle duty and shipping charges
through a markup to the price per item; the only explicit add-on that
you pay is domestic shipping. I remember figuring the markup to be
about 20% from my pounds to dollars conversion.
They will also consolidate your parts into their monthly air container
shipment, and charge you for your portion of the weight. I haven't done
this yet, but it seems really promising for parts that you're not in a
huge hurry for.
It was really nice getting stuff delivered to my door in two-three
days, wihtout the hassle of Customs, and the prices weren't at all offensive.
There are three guys at JAE; I've always dealt with "Jay". They seem
to have a fair bit of stock of generic Lucas and Girling parts, as well
- they have some overlap with Triumphs, but I doubt there's too much with Rovers.
Name: JAE
Address: 375 Pine, Unit 26
Goleta, CA 93117
Phone: (805) 967-5767
(805) 967-6183 fax
Message No 125
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 15:35:25 1993
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 16:24:39 EST
From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
Status: RO
>Well, I finally got the Merseyside catalog, and started pricing out stuff.
>
>The heaviest items, which I suspect would have some amout of freight
>associated with them would be things like the a frame (486 quid), and a
A frame for under $750? Wow, I like that but I wonder what shipping
will cost.
> [ more goodies deleted ]
I just did this on the OD and it came out as follows:
OD #388
FedEx Shipping # 75
SubTotal #463 ~ $680
Duty (3.1%) 21.10
FedEx 'Service' 5
$706.10
Not much of a savings over RN, actually (more expensive excluding RN's
shipping). One big factor in that is the damned FedEx service.
First, by causing me to be billed for duty on the damned originating
shipping charges then for their double-damned service charge on the
receiving end after I'd alread paid #75 pounds on the other side.
They have *truly* pissed me off.
So, Dixon and TeriAnn, how does on arrange alternate shipping for
orders? The frame purchase looks especially promising but *not*
via FedEx :-) I still think this can be a good way to go but not
the way I did it.
Oh, and Merseyside didn't even include a catalog in the shipment.
Urrrrrr.
monty
Message No 127
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 06:05:50 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: ENGINE TRANSPLANT FOR LR IN ONE EASY STEP...
To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 11:33:08 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <azw.230.000A237A@aber.ac.uk>; from "Andy Woodward" at Nov 22, 93 10:08 am
Status: RO
New one one me,this.Up until the 2.5 N/A diesel the Army only ran
petrol.The current lot are Tdi,which no way is a Peugot.They *did*
have a certain amount of trouble with the N/A engine blowing oil
into the air filter,and some quality control problems,mainly faulty
block castings,but Peugot?
If we are going to be accurate,the petrol engine is an *understressed*
diesel,since the diesel came first.The 2.25 petrol was developed from it.
My favourite method of unglueing tailgaters is to stomp on the loud pedal,
thus putting down a smokescreen of unburned diesel,which gets sucked into
executive heater systems.Difficult to drive whilst coughing!Otherwise I
affect a lordly indifference,and look dowm my nose at them when they pass.
And then sit *right* on their back bumpers at the next roundabout.The brake
light method works just as well,I must admit,its just I find it not as much
fun.The other method which I also enjoy,is to out corner them.You can bet
your boots they can only drive in a straight line,so approaching a sharp
bend,back of on the throttle(thus showing no brake lights)and corner as
tight as you can whilst accelerating.The sheep will try to follow your line,
which their sloppy suspension cant cope with,(an 88" can out corner most
things).Then have a quick gander astern,and see the steering wheel fighting
going on.But dont end up in the ditch through laughing too hard:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 129
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 03:51:49 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Re: Mudflaps
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 09:51:21
Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk
Status: RO
>> Ray asks about mudflaps.IMO no Land Rover should be without them.
>> I'll go further,and state that I think rear mudflaps should be
>> compulsory on *all* vehicles,out of respect for the poor devil
>> following in your rooster tail in the wet.Of course the European
>(triangle) to indicate a slow moving vechicle. We have Quebec drivers
>from Hell here, who will ride on your rear bumper, beeping horns and
>steering eratically. The more road grunge I can dump on those deadbeats
>cars, the better. When I lost one mudflap off road, and felt compelled
>to remove the other, there was a marked improvement in the amount of
>respect the Land Rover got. Many of you don't have to put up with these
>loonnies, I feel that the farther these overemotional, reckless, lead
>footed, and once behind the wheel aggressive pseudo-macho types are away
>from me, the better.
Seconded. I have front mudflaps to keep the crap off me. But I have removeed
the rear ones so as to keep the tailgaters off too. LRs dont move fast enough
to keep the executives out of your exhaust pipe. They get recycles as front
ones when the time comes.......
Of course if this doesnt work, you can always jab the anchors momentarily. In
a LR, this ALWAYS works......
Message No 134
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Nov 20 12:28:51 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 08:42:11 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
>
> Any thoughts on replace the 4 banger with a straight 6 chevy engine?
> I seem to recall that Teriann mentioned something about that a while ago...
What seems to be a neat idea at the outset can turn into a nightmare. I
will explain. The Chevy 6 is a good reliable engine. The advantages are
better fuel economy, cheap parts, more powerful. Now the down side.
There is a Land Rover?????? in Ottawa that has this conversion. The
owner tells me that it is quite easy to do, just make sure you cut
several inches out of the bulkhead, otherwise the back of the head and
valve covers just won't fit. To look at it, it appears he used an axe to
do this. While you are at it, why not change the old inadequate brake
and clutch booster, as he did. One was made by Massey Fergison, the
other Dodge. Oh, and he doesn't life the steel frame, adnd is planning
to replace one made out of aluminum. The unique interior is very nice.
That should read that he is planning to replace it with one made out of
aluminum.
Off road performance is great, he says, but he breaks alot of axles.
As anyone who hots up cars will tell you, If you increase the power in
one component, it creates stress in others down the line. The Land Rover
was not designed for this engine.
The converted Land Rover here is the worst example that I could have
imagined. Only the body and driveline could be considered Land Rover.
In short, the benefits seem marginal. The 4 banger is long lasting and
adequate.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 135
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Nov 20 02:38:19 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 00:33:55 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> writes:
> So, Dixon and TeriAnn, how does on arrange alternate shipping for
> orders? The frame purchase looks especially promising but *not*
> via FedEx :-) I still think this can be a good way to go but not
> the way I did it.
With something like a frame, have it sent over by ship. Don't
worry how long it will take, just go for cost. You might as well
through some springs in with it while you are at it. Here in
Ottawa, FedEx is used for the really important fast action stuff,
regular mail for the general stuff, and boat for the bulk order.
> Oh, and Merseyside didn't even include a catalog in the shipment.
> Urrrrrr.
I have to send them a fax in the near future. I'll point it out to
them. They are growing aware that the InterNet exists (though they
really don't know what it is) and that a number of us are in
contact with each other. Good business depends on keeping all
happy, as we obviously communicate amonst each other...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 136
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Nov 20 02:38:07 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: thermostats
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 00:27:45 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes:
> maybe RN supplied you with the "upgraded" series III thermostat. my RN
> parts manual lists the IIA and III as identical units (wax type)-anyone
> know when they were changed? late serIIA perhaps ('69ish seems to be a
> pivotal year).....the swamp beast is a '67 109, no?
The Swamp Beast is a '64, though according to Ted Rose (an awol
participant here) the housing on my two engines both take the
Series III type. Kind of annoying... Something is wrong here, and
I think the change over occurred well before the Series II arrived.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 137
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Nov 20 02:38:18 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Winterisation...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 00:25:13 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> And the question is, of course, how do you know the top from
> the bottom of a genuine LR thermostat.
Well, the genuine one goes about half way into the housing, leaving
the other half sticking out. Unfortunately, the top of the housing
is not large enough to cover what is left sticking out. Turn it
over, and it doesn't go in at all... I underestand that the
thermostats are different between differing vintages, something
that I am going to explore soonest...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 138
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 17:07:02 1993
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 15:03:50 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
Status: RO
In message <9311192114.AA12198@easynet.crl.dec.com> I feel a Jackson Pollock
coming on writes:
>
> >Well, I finally got the Merseyside catalog, and started pricing out stuff.
> >
> >The heaviest items, which I suspect would have some amout of freight
> >associated with them would be things like the a frame (486 quid), and a
>
> A frame for under $750? Wow, I like that but I wonder what shipping
> will cost.
>
> > [ more goodies deleted ]
>
> I just did this on the OD and it came out as follows:
>
> OD #388
> FedEx Shipping # 75
> SubTotal #463 ~ $680
> Duty (3.1%) 21.10
> FedEx 'Service' 5
> $706.10
>
> Not much of a savings over RN, actually (more expensive excluding RN's
> shipping). One big factor in that is the damned FedEx service.
> First, by causing me to be billed for duty on the damned originating
> shipping charges then for their double-damned service charge on the
> receiving end after I'd alread paid #75 pounds on the other side.
> They have *truly* pissed me off.
>
> So, Dixon and TeriAnn, how does on arrange alternate shipping for
> orders? The frame purchase looks especially promising but *not*
> via FedEx :-) I still think this can be a good way to go but not
> the way I did it.
>
> Oh, and Merseyside didn't even include a catalog in the shipment.
> Urrrrrr.
>
> monty
Monty have them ship it to your nearest international airport. You will have to
go to the freight forwarder get papers, go to shipper get more papers, take
papers to Customs, pay 3.1%, take additional papers back to shipper and get
parts. For me its about a 2 or 3 hour process from work.
You pay the part price & what they charge for shipping, about $40 to the freight
forwarder, 3.1% of part price to customs. The more parts your order at once the
better your saveings.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 139
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 18:53:08 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Mudflaps
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 11:28:34 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Ray asks about mudflaps.IMO no Land Rover should be without them.
> I'll go further,and state that I think rear mudflaps should be
> compulsory on *all* vehicles,out of respect for the poor devil
> following in your rooster tail in the wet.Of course the European
The since departed by sale Land Rover, used to have mud flaps. The
advantages are a cleaner rear window, and as you say, helps people behind
you. BUT, the previous owner also thought it necessary to add a high
powered spot light directed out the rear window, presumably to blind
tailgaiters. Also, the previous owner had talked about a orange tiangle
(triangle) to indicate a slow moving vechicle. We have Quebec drivers
from Hell here, who will ride on your rear bumper, beeping horns and
steering eratically. The more road grunge I can dump on those deadbeats
cars, the better. When I lost one mudflap off road, and felt compelled
to remove the other, there was a marked improvement in the amount of
respect the Land Rover got. Many of you don't have to put up with these
loonnies, I feel that the farther these overemotional, reckless, lead
footed, and once behind the wheel aggressive pseudo-macho types are away
from me, the better.
With the diesel, having more of a presence, (big tires, dark green paint,
winch and noise) people tend to behave, unless they can put some distance
between themselves and the "big ugly square thing".
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 140
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 19 18:53:18 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Pattern Spares
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 11:02:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> It would be interesting to know what the difference in price is between
> gen and pattern spares for your domectic products,and if,indeed,there is
> a market at all for pattern spares in the US and Canada.My point was that
> a 100% surcharge for little more than the name on a box is excessive and
> cannot be justified,even if the lifetime of the pattern part is a little
> less.(Incidentally,that should read *domestic* products).
I may have posted somthing like this before, I can't remember. Could be
alzheimers, must stop licking the bodywork.
Price is not necessarily my top consideration. Things like engine oil
seals and other rubber seals like axle seals must be original parts.
These are the parts in places that are hard to get at, so I only want to
do it once. An example of difference between aftermarket and original is
the afformentioned axle hub seals. On the new after market part the
retaining spring fell out when I opened the package. The original was
clearly better quality. If I want a part quickly from a original parts
supplier in the U.S. I would expect to pay a premium.
Non essential parts, body parts and things I am not in a hurry for I will
get from whoever has the best price and quality. This is the majority of
parts I intend to buy. I was very happy with the last stuff I got from
Merseyside. I will do it again. Not only are some parts less than half
price, They also have Land Rover packaging.
I think this will keep everybody happy, but most importantly, me.
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 145
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 14:55:31 1993
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Brake Shoes
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 22 Nov 93 09:30:46 PST."
<9311220930.AA24144@hpc.lut.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 12:53:10 PST
Status: RO
In message <9311220930.AA24144@hpc.lut.ac.uk> you write:
> Jory asks about rivetted vs. bonded shoes.I dont know what sort
> of adjuster you have fitted,but with my snail cam type,the
> adjustment wears out,so to speak,before the rivets contact(and ruin)
> the drums.The advantage from my point of view is that I can reline the
Unfortunately, on my 88, the snail cam is a bit bigger, so the
rivets can scrape the drums. Luckily, I heard this beginning to happen
and got new brake shoes in time. I've had no problems with the bonded
brake shoes.
Benjamin Smith
1972 SIII 88
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Message No 147
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 12:43:27 1993
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 10:39:34 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com, azw@aber.ac.uk, Andy@apple.com,
Woodward@apple.com, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: re diesels
Status: RO
In message <199311221651.LAA06544@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> William Caloccia
writes:
>
> > weak LR diesel; which is, after all, merely an overstressed petrol....
>
> Actually, wasn't the original pattern for the 2 1/4 series a Ford tractor
> engine ?
>
> I'd thought the tractor was originally a diesel, but I could be wrong...
> anybody know ?
>
Sorry
Back in the 40s Ford was selling the 9N and the 8N. Both were small flat head
pertol four cylinder. Ford came out with an overhead petrol four in 1955 with
the NAA AKA Golden Jubalee model.
If I wanted to start a rumor, Ford made Jeeps during the war with a flat head 4.
Maybe it was the same one as used in the 8&9N models.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 148
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 12:23:46 1993
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 10:19:06 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
Status: RO
In message <1wFBDc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Dale Desprey writes:
> William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
>
> >
> > Any thoughts on replace the 4 banger with a straight 6 chevy engine?
> > I seem to recall that Teriann mentioned something about that a while ago...
Lots of flames removed, asbestos gloves on, flame suit on; fire hoses on....
Here is the scoop.
The Chevey 6 engine is the most popular of the non- Land Rover engine swaps in
the US. It is my understanding that a Ford V6 is for the UK. Anyway, you need
an adaptor kit got the Chevy engine. If You Land Rover originally came with a
LR 6 cyl engine, you do not need to make any bulkhead mods. If it did not, the
bulkhead needs to be modified. Like anything else, the end results depends upon
the care & skill in doing it. I also believe the radiator needs to be moved
forward 7 a couple of other things done.
The iron Chevy 4 cylinder engine is an easy swap requiring only the adaptor kit.
The engine fits into the bay with no modifications, uses the same engine mounts,
hoses and accelerator linkage. It is lighter than the LR 4, more powerful and
has better economy.
The primary disadvantage is as Dale and Dixon so well pointed out, Land Rover
chalvanists it is gennerally accepted that you can do just about anything you
want to your Land Rover as long as you use Land Rover parts, boards, carpet or
other non-car parts. If you modify your Land Rover using non-Land Rover car
parts you are ostricised in any Land Rover gathering.
You can drop a Rover V8 into a series II and gop to a Land Rover gathering and
people would find it interesting.
Drop a chevy 6 into a series II and go to the same meeting and you are a
candatate for ether a public lynching or a house for the mentaly dearranged.
I go to too many LR events so I opted for a rebuilt LR 4 cylinder so people
would be friendly to me.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 149
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 15:35:19 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: FYI: ser. II(a) workshop manuals -- out of stock in new england
To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 15:30:53 -0600 (CST)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <199311221937.OAA07867@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Nov 22, 93 02:37:58 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1260
Status: RO
> Has anyone found a use for the Land Rover Parts book for S.IIa, or are the
> exploded diagrams in the factory (bently) service manual good enough identify
> parts when ordering (like before disassembly, or when looking a a pile of
> parts in a box) ?
When making a large order, I like to look at the factory parts
book and make a detail list with part numbers. Then when I
call it in, I give out the part number, and they echo back
confirmation with the description. 9 out of 10 partnumbers are
still current and if not, they give me the superceeding number.
I do think the drawings are a little more precise. I find the
parts description very useful. My parts manual is mixed -- some
pages in the older format and some in the newer format. The older
format had very detailed parts description -- such as
"..bolt 3/16 x 2-1/4 bsf.." which helps in the assembly process.
Tough question, If the
manual was not already in hand, I don't know if I would get one
or not -- but I am certainly glad I have one.
If you are going to reprint, consider utilizing the older style
if that is possible.
For the Range Rover, I have the Microfiche ($15 vs $175 (est)).
That takes a trip to the library to look at the viewer/printer,
but it is definately worth $15.
Message No 152
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 23 04:24:39 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Diesels..the origin
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:23:33 GMT
Status: RO
Is this a heretic we have amongst us? Ford? What's that?:-)
According to my reading,there was a demand for a diesel
Land Rover from such as transport fleet owners etc who
ran a lot of diesels,presumably had their own diesel tank
on site,and who got proper browned off taking the Land Rover
round to fill it up with petrol.
Land Rover investigated a source of supply of small oil burners,
but found only one,which happened to br a Mercedes.Since wartime
memories were still fresh,and perhaps for other reasons as well,
it was decided to build their own diesel engine from scratch.
The result was the two litre diesel,which was the alternative
option to the then current two litre IOE petrol.Neither had any
parts commonality,as far as I am aware.
Since the IOE engine was a little long in the tooth by then,the
2 litre oily wad was used as a basis for the (or a) petrol engine
which came out as a 2.25.The diesel was enlarged to match.
I am reliably informed by a bloke whose father ran a 2Litre diesel
that it was pretty awful.He always went out in it with a large
plastic bag full of injector supply pipes,in the certain knowledge
he would need one(or two...or three),before he got home.
However,it was a pretty impressive achievement,since it *was* at the
time the only small automotive diesel around and was designed from
scratch.
Whether the Merc diesel was used as a "benchmark" so to speak,no-one
is saying,I would think it unlikely.
Also,whether the US was scanned at the time for a suitable power unit
I dont know,but,again,it would seem unlikely,since the whole idea at
the time was to export,to repair a war damaged economy (and I *can*
remember rationing.....just!And trams,ditto),so a domestically
produced unit would have been considered virtually essential.
In several years of taking the LRO magazine,I have only seen a handful
of two litre diesels adverised for sale,either in a vehicle,or
otherwise,but one ad comes to mind"Two litre diesel engine for sale,
parially restored,for sale because I,m fed up with it".'Nuff sed?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 153
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 18:50:04 1993
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 16:50:03 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: u10122@sdsc.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: tractors2
Status: RO
In message <9311222235.AA11905@y1.sdsc.edu> dushin russell writes:
>
> >Sorry
> Back in the 40s Ford was selling the 9N and the 8N. Both were small flat
> head
> pertol four cylinder.
>
> this is true......and, TeriAnn (since you do still own one of these, no?),
> might
> you have ever adjusted the valves?? I have been unable to track down the
> suitable tool, and all attempts to manufacture one (with crude tools like
> hacksaws,
> vises, and hammers) have failed. my local tractor guy (who much prefers to
> deal
> with hardhats riding catapillers) hasn't EVER come through for me on this.
>
> rdushin/nigel, '39 9N, Fergy TO30.
Dushin,
Actually I just sold my tractor. I have a $400 nonrefundable deposit at least.
The new owners will be picking it up this Friday. My tractor is a 631, a 1957
version of the first overhead valve Ford tractor series.
So this in't a complete bandwith waste for the group:
I started on my Series III hydrolic conversion this last Sunday. I'm putting in
a duel power brake system and a series III master clutch cylinder with its own
resavoir
First thing I noticed is the new clutch master cylinder takes a smaller guage
hydrolic line than is on the IIA. Ether an adaptor or a smaaler guage line is
needed.
The manual and power break peddles are hung differently in the assembly. The
manual peddle is attached at the rear of the assembly, and the power brake lever
is attached at the front. This means that the hole for the brake peddle needs
to be enlarged. The duel cylinder takes two differnt diameters of line. More
on this later as I get things installed.
Why is nothing ever straight forward?
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 155
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 22 18:47:45 1993
To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu
From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840)
Newsgroups: mlist.lro
Subject: Re: Winterisation...
Date: 22 Nov 1993 13:54 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4
Status: RO
In article <93Nov19.113856pst.55941@egeus.parc.xerox.com>, "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" writes...
> It the correct theromstat is
> unabtainable, the bipass should be blocked off.
>
>Indeed. The appropriate way to do this on a TR is with a 3/8 NPT
>*brass* plug - drill and tap the hole and fit the plug (probably best
>not to use any sealant, lest some drift and clog a passage). I don't
>know if the LR takes the same size or not.
I haven't seen any followup, so in the interest of saving an engine or two,
I feel I should say:
no, No, NO!
On a Rover, if you block off the bypass, ther will be NO water flow around the
engine until the thermostat opens up, and hot spots will develop. If you must
use the wrong thermostat, or none, restrict the bypass (with a washer big
enough to lodge in the hose but not fit through the casting ports). If you
run without a thermostat, restricting the bypass will send more water
through the radiator for more efficeint --or too efficient--cooling, depending
if you find your way to Death Valley or the frozen tundra.
Randy Rose
Pasadena, California
(818)395-3840
rsrose@iago.caltech.edu
California Institute of Technology
Message No 156
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 23 00:12:54 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Rules for Collecting Land Rovers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 21:02:25 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> Some of you might have seen something like this before, but
> others might enjoy it -- I know I got a few smiles from it.
> RULES FOR COLLECTING LR'S
Interesting... :-)
It remiinds of the "Ten tips for New Land Rover Owners" that I
pilfered out of Dale's diesel once upon a time...
See if the person from whom you bought the monstrocity from will
have your money back.
If you have tried tip one, and have been given the infamous middle
finger salute, DO NOT under any circumstances tell anyone how much
you paid for it. Any amount in dollars would be too much. Tell
them instead that it was a gift from your great Uncle Roy, and that
what you really wanted was a Deux Chevaux.
Buy a buss pass
Don't let anyone tell you how good Land Rovers are. They either
don't own one, or are depraved.
Become a bachelor. Land Rover owners can't get a date to save
their miserable lives.
Land Rover ownership and congenital insanity are mutually
exclusive. Dress the part. Wear funny hats and write only in
crayon.
Don't talk about Land Rovers with other owners. There are more
boring Land Rover stories than oddball bolt sizes on the vehicle.
Tell them that your main interests are origami and sow calling.
Beware of technical advice. Mechanical ability and Land Rovers
owners go together like oil and radiator fluid.
Tell everyone that you are independently wealthy. Unlike the other
commoners, you can afford to charitably forfiet your riches in the
luxurious pursuit of keeping an ancient mechanical behemoth
operating adequately that may realistically be worth almost as much
as half of what you paid for it.
Get used to being cold, wet, and generally uncomfortable.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 157
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 23 08:49:09 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: more on the thermostat discussion
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 08:44:36 -0600 (CST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3298
Status: RO
The following article was printed in the Spring 93 issue
of the Aluminum Workhorse. Author is David H. Lowe, of
Ontario: There are 3 diagrams that I cannot recreate
here of cross-sections of the engine block, double-acting
thermostat and single-acting thermostat. The single-acting
thermostat diagram has WRONG arrows where (1) the O-ring
goes and (2) the bypass is not closed.
RUNNING HOT AND COLD
Thought I'd put pen to paper on the age-old
question of "Why is my Land Rover so hot in the
summer and cold in the winter?" The probable answer
is; The wrong thermostat is fitted.
The following sketches show the cooling system of
a 2-1/4 liter engine and two sections through the
thermostat housing.
The only type of thermostat for "our" engines is the
double acting skirted type. Not the flat, single-acting
type. This is due to the size and location of the by-pass
port which allows recirculation around the block until
such time as the thermostat starts to open allowing flow
to the radiator, but at the same time, closing off the
port by the descending skirt. Referance to the two
sections will show the difference.
Note that if a "flat" thermostat is fitted, the
following will result:
-- Summer -- Since there is no obstruction of the by-pass,
the flow will take the line of least resistance and circulate
around the block. The result will be an engine that either run
hot or actually overheats. Since the #4 cylinder is last in
line and the termperature sending unit is at the front, I
believe this is a major contributor (over tightening is
another) to the cracked exhaust manifold problem.
-- Winter -- Since the thermostat is not held down
by the housing and )-ring, it will tilt and wobble,
allowing flow to the radiator when we least need it.
Result -- cooler running.
This can be overcome by making a thick gasket and
positioning it above the thermostat flange to hold it in
place. In the 110 and later engines, the bypass port
was changed from the larger oval opening in "our" 2-1/4s
to a round hold approximately 1/2 inch in diameter.
This built-in restriction dispensed with
the necessity for a skirted "stat", and on these engines
a flat type is standard.
The following paragraph is from Rovers North November
"Holiday Special Flyer" which I got only yesterday:
...You can use other thermostats in your
Land Rover. A GM 185 or 190 6-cylinder
thermostat will fit if you usa an O ring to hold
it in place. However, this will have to be removed
before summer driving, as this type of thermostat
is flat and lacks the Land Rover thermostat's
shoulder. This shoulder blocks off the bypass
hose, causing the coolant to circulate through
the cylinder head. Without this shoulder, the
coolant simply flows through the bypass hose without
cooling the cylinder head...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
- 80 MGB - xx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 165
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 23 14:47:31 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: lro@stratus.com
Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com
Subject: LRO (the magazine), and Brooklands publications
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 15:46:20 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Does anyone have a phone number, fax number, current subscription price,
or the town in new jersey for LRO subscriptions, I've got an incomplete
address as:
LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int.
2323 Randolph Avenue
New Jersey 07001
and priced at US$70 /year
Also, does anyone have an address for Brooklands publishing, or perhaps have
one of the following books (and could supply me with the ISBN)
Land Rover Restoration Tips and Techniques
Richard Green, Brooklands
Practical Classics: Land Rover Restoration
Brooklands
Thanks,
-- Bill
Message No 168
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 03:11:10 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: FYI: ser. II(a) workshop manuals -- out of stock in new england
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 22:05:04 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> Has anyone found a use for the Land Rover Parts book for S.IIa, or are the
> exploded diagrams in the factory (bently) service manual good enough identify
> parts when ordering (like before disassembly, or when looking a a pile of
> parts in a box) ?
A bit of a judgement call. The parts manual provides part numbers
which the factory manual doesn't. When ordering parts I can
provide the part numbers that were in effect for the 1970 printing
of the manual. While they might be out of date, having these part
numbers is rather useful to quote back when you get something
differnet. I always specify the year, serial number, that it is
left hand drive, and Nroth American Dollar area. Any residual
confusion is quickly cleared up by a few Land Rover part numbers to
insure that I am clear on what I want. Supply this information has
always resulted in the right stuff coming through in the end.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 169
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 03:11:03 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: RE: Merseyside Cat.
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 22:02:17 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
DAVID SPENCER <x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca> writes:
> Perhaps the next time someone asks for a cat. from Merseyside they could
> get in electronic form on a few disks and through it onto the net via
> an ftp site. This could be followed by a yearly update.
I have been reminding them of their promise to provide just this
for a while now. Such a list would be very useful, even if in a
scanable <ahem> font... :-) If anyone happens to order something
from them, remind them that Dixon want his list. Just don't
mention anything about ftp sites (wouldn't want to unnecessarily
confuse them...)
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 170
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 03:11:05 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Merseyside
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 21:39:59 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> I go to too many LR events so I opted for a rebuilt LR 4 cylinder so people
> would be friendly to me.
One club member here has a Volvo six in his, there is a non-club
member with the Chevy six in his, though it is a non-professional
job, or so I am lead to understand. My skepticism with such
conversions falls into the "too much power", or "poorly done"
catagories. There really isn't that much difference in dropping
in the 3.5l V8, except the license is currently held by Rover Group
and not GMC. It all comes down to what everyone thinks is
appropriate, and how much originality is really required. After
being basically abandoned by Land Rover for twenty years here in
North America, are modifications that were undertaken to keep them
on the road really that bad? Interesting question...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 174
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 23 18:40:58 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: "Big ugly square thing"
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 11:39:37 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes:
> Dale writes:
>
> > With the diesel, having more of a presence, (big tires, dark green paint,
> > winch and noise) people tend to behave, unless they can put some distance
> > between themselves and the "big ugly square thing".
>
> Were you still refering to the Rover or the driver?
>
BOTH!
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 176
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 11:02:54 1993
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 09:01:29 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:Land Rover chalvanists
Status: RO
In message <wg9gDc4w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Dale Desprey writes:
> > The primary disadvantage is as Dale and Dixon so well pointed out, Land
> > Rover chalvanists it is generally accepted that you can do just about
> > anything you want to your Land Rover as long as you use Land Rover parts,
> >boards, carpet or other non-car parts. If you modify your Land Rover using
> > non-Land Rover car parts you are ostricised in any Land Rover gathering.
> >
> >
> Are we really that bad?
> Dale Desprey
>
Dale, WE are really all that bad. The land Rover mind controllers are a
different breed from the other classics mind controllers though. Try to show up
at a TR3 gathering with a TR3 in a non-stock colour. Not quite ostricized but
not quite accepted. Change a couple more things & no one wants to park their 3
next to yours. The ideal is a car that looks new, has all the correct parts
assembled in the exact correct locations using the correct routing & bends in
your tubing. But it all has to be done with more percision than the factory did
it. I have even seen a few with all the flats on on the head of the bolts
attaching the front wings perfectly lined up.
The Land Rover people seem to think that their cars are supposed to be used, but
they GOTTA be Land Rovers. So people can customize them to better perform a
function and thuse be more useful as long as they try to keep the Land Roverness
intact. This means putting on a Land Rover power brake and not a Buick power
brake system. It means using as many Land Rover parts as possible in any custom
work. When I cut the hole in the side of my LR to gain external access to my
propane tank, you can bet I used a LR toolbox lid and fittings from a 109 pickup
as the door for my access hole.
Its why I chose to put the LR engine back in instead of the drop in Chevy 4 that
is lighter has 20something more HP and gets beeter millage. Its why when I put
a water tank in the LR, I will use the galvanized fuel filler fitting for the
body hole for the water intake.
I too have poo pooed Chevey engines, Volvo seats and the like but I know some
people with Chevy engines that say it work great for pulling the trailer or boat
up to the mountains and have never had a problem.
I don't know about your area, but around here people don't seem to be too
interested in Land Rover concourse. Its more of a macho my Land Rover is a more
useful and used rig than yours.
Dented, needing paint, no two looking quite the same. Some suporting roof racks
with gerry cans, some with wenches some with overridders, some with hard tops
some with soft tops some without tops, some with minimal or no addons, some that
look like campers... The Land rovers DO stand out in a field of prim restored
British cars in any all British field meet. But we are Land Rover chalvanists
all the same
Take care,
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 177
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 11:42:16 1993
From: "thomas r. coron" <tcoron@s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Re: problems?
To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) (dushin russell)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 12:44:02 EST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9311232216.AA75068@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Nov 23, 93 10:16 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
I seem to see responses to messages that I have not seen
also. I'm not too familiar with unix / my mailer, etc. so
I figured I'm probably not doing something right.
Also, on some messages, particularly Terrianne's, I don't
always get a line feed/carriage return. I can see the
characters toggling at the end of the line. I hate missing
parts of what are usually fascinating messages, like today's
Land Rover chauvinist stuff.
Could it be that some of you are using the auto lf/cr function
and not hitting enter at the end of each line?
I normally only read the fascinating stuff flying around the network
from Mike, Dale, Terrianne, Dixon and the rest,since I don't
have anything to contribute.
My 66 IIa 88 right hand drive, sits in the garage, patiently
waiting for me to finish this %$*!!@& data structures class
and get to work rebuilding the front wheel cylinders and
installing a new muffler and front brake shoes.
I've picked up a lot of useful hints, etc. from this group.
Keep it up!!
Tom Coron
King George, Va.
66 IIa 88 RHD
Message No 178
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 11:40:38 1993
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 09:38:52 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters
Status: RO
In message <9311241139.AA11780@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes:
> Hi Teriann,
> A short while ago you posted me a short description of your
> Kodiac heater(which,being me,I no longer have).I wonder whether
> you could do it again please? I have been mulling over plans/ideas
> to improve the performance of my heater,which is an utter wimp.
> Mike Rooth
>
Mike the parts are not all that common in the lower 48 states, but I suspect
Dixon or Dale could probably remove a Kodiak heater from one of the Canadian
rust buckets and ship it to you. Esp if you offer to ship them a bunch of
Merseyside catalogues or some such in return.
The upper part of the bulkhead is angled out twords the front of the car, then
goes vertical. The brake & clutch peddle assemblies are on this angled portion.
On the oposit side as the brake & clutch peddle assembly in about the same
location would sit a rectangular flat radiator. This radiator is fitted over a
hole in the bulkhead. sitting in front of this radiator os a large squrrel fan
(a rotory fan shaped like a rodent exscercise wheel). The output is ducted to
the heater radiator. The input which is 90 degrees to the output lines up with
a circular hole in the wing. Between the wing and the fan intake, if I recall is
a dampener that can be adjusted from the interior. The motor on the fan is two
speed. On the interior side of the heater radiator is a metal vent box that
directs the heat twords the driver's legs. It has takeoffs for hoses for the
demisters.
As a guess I think a North American Kodiak heater can be redially adapted to a
wrong side drive car. I think you would be OK with the fan just by inverting
it. You could invert the interior ducting as well. This would need some work.
You could cut out the part that has the demister takeoffs, replace it with flat
sheetmetal and put it on the other side.
The interior controls fit onto a small dash pannel that is screwed adjacent to
the main panel (I'm writing about II & IIAs only. I have no idea about the
series III). There are two wire pulls, one for air intake, the other for hot
water intake to the radiator, and a two speed electrical switch.
Maybe you can bribe Dale & Dixon's club to go on a scavanger hunt for all the
parts for a fellow enthusiest.
Take care,
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 179
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 14:15:50 1993
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 12:14:37 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Right on!
Status: RO
In message <9311241800.AA18785@mtnoca.helena_noc> ROY CALDWELL writes:
>
> TeriAnn,
>
> I sure do agree with you. That is exactly how I feel
> about my Rovers. Use them, don't abuse them and do
> what makes them work for you. Using parts and pieces
> like access doors and filler tubes only makes since
> because they where made to fit and make the conversion/
> addition so much easier.
>
> By the way, you keep talking about things you are doin to
> the 109, what is your ultimate configuration goal and for
> what end? Just interested because I am planning the
> ultimate rig/config for my 62. But it will be like yours
> a config that fits what I want to do and or think I need.
>
> I am considering using a chevy 4 transplant as a non-perm
> installation while I try to round up the engine parts for
> a rebuild of the 58s 2 ltr. Do you think that would be to
> much trouble?
>
> Take care,
>
> Roy
>
Roy
The Chevy 4 may be too wide to fit the series I frame. I believe the LR 2-1/4
engine is as well.
My Land Rover design goal is to have the best car camper - multi-purpose car I
can get.
My Land Rover has got to be a hauler for fire wood, 100 pound plus dogs,
garbage, and anything else big and bulky and not necessarily clean or sanitary.
I need to be able to park it up hill and hose the back down to get out traces
of old garbage that just went to the dump.
On the otherhand, I want a fully equipted long distance comfortable camper.
Everyone else I know who has set their LR up for camping has ruined it for
almost anything else.
With those ultimate design goals in mind, any mod needs to leave the back area
essentually empty, or be easily removable & normally storred off the LR.
Petrol. I have a front tank under each front seat. Each tank has its own
filler. i have a rear tank ready to install as soon as I get the muffler moved.
I am using a filler neck for the rear tank of a 109 heavy duty pickup.
propane. I have a hoizontal 5 gal propane tank mounted under the bench on the
right side between the front fuel tank and the rear wheel. it is accessable
from ether inside or outside via tool box door lids.
water. I am planning a water tank to fit in the same place as the propane tank
on the other side. i recently saw a 110 camper with one on each side. The
110's held 23 gallons per tank. I now use a pair of plastic water cans that take
up space in the LR,
perminate storrage - i am going to replace the sides on my top next summer. I
currently have sides with two fixed windows. The plan is to use station wagon
sides with the big sliding window. I plan to Cut the front where the front
mounts are and mount that part in the correct position. This leaves a gap a
little wider than a rear door. I plan to fill this in with a cabinet on both
sides. The one on the passanger's side, by the propane tank will be just wide
enough to hold a colman lantern. This would provide storrage for a lantern, the
propane stove, and some misc cooking utensels. The door on this cabinet will
probably open downward from the top and serve as in inside table.
The left side, over the water tank will have a water filter system and maybe a
pump and foscet. Left over space would be for storrage.
Temp things. I have a small steel sink that I want to build a cabinet for. The
plan is to be able to hook it to the side above the water tank under the
purification system for trips and remove it for storage when not in use.
I would also like to build a doormobile style storrage cabinet for trips that
can be reasily removed. I can temporarally put anything I want on the bech area
as long as it does not stick over. I have a fold up cot that fits in the bed
that I sleep on in the car.
I lash a cooler to the left rear of the bench for easy access from the rear. It
hold 2 blocks of ice plus food & film. If i find a good place to store a second
battery, I may get a small 12V referigerator.
I currently lash big plastic containers to the benches to hold clothes,
sleeping bag & food. This keeps the center open for the dog in the day & the
cot at night.
When I get home, everything comes out & I can go out & clean the barn with the
LR without hurting anything.
I'm also doing some safety mods. Front bumper overriders, and duel power
brakes. I plan to have a welder add some metal to square off the rear frame
member to look like the military frame. This will give me outboard rear jack
points, and a place to mount the military bumperetts for more protection.
I will probably add curtins and who knows what else
Take care,
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 180
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 12:24:55 1993
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 93 10:22:52 PST
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters
Status: RO
Mike,
The Kodiak heater is just a large version of the standard Land Rover heater,
the one that has a fresh air intake through a hole in the side of the wing, not
the Smiths "ankle burner". I think you're better off with the OEM version,
because you can get parts. If that's not enough heat for you I'm sure the fan
motor could be replaced with stonger one.
R, bg
>
> In message <9311241139.AA11780@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes:
> > Hi Teriann,
> > A short while ago you posted me a short description of your
> > Kodiac heater(which,being me,I no longer have).I wonder whether
> > you could do it again please? I have been mulling over plans/ideas
> > to improve the performance of my heater,which is an utter wimp.
>
> > Mike Rooth
Message No 182
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Nov 24 12:37:49 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: LRO (the magazine), and Brooklands publications
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 07:31:58 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com> writes:
> Does anyone have a phone number, fax number, current subscription price,
> or the town in new jersey for LRO subscriptions, I've got an incomplete
> address as:
> LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int.
> 2323 Randolph Avenue
> New Jersey 07001
> and priced at US$70 /year
The September issue says the subsrcription price is $50US and to
send address corrections to LRO c/o Telesort, 601 Wets 26th Street,
NY, NY1001. While your address above seems to be familiar to me,
this is what I found, surprisingly enough...
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 186
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 00:40:34 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: 90 Defender
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1993 23:04:29 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Ben Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:
> I can't say my more because the dealer didn't have any documentation
> yet or a price. He did say that the initial shipment was 2000 Defenders. He
> also offered (in jest I believe) to swap me the new Defender for my 1972 one.
> Unfortunately Dad has the title, not me.
No dealer in Ottwaw yet. I wonder when they do what they would say
about a test drive? You see Mr. Dealer, I have this wee bit of
swamp that I would like to try it out in... If the Swamp Beast can
do it, surely this modern gleam can... :-)
Ahh, well, off to discover the dirt on who is in the running for
this years awards. The OVLR Christmas party is this coming Friday
and it should be a good bash. (As long as Dale doesn't bring the
Southern Comfort. We ran out of beer at his party last night at
4am, and with an evil grin produced a bottle... <ohhh, my head>)
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 191
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 26 13:27:58 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 26 Nov 93 16:23:21 GMT."
<9311261623.AA19295@hpc.lut.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 14:25:36 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> I also wonder about work hardening,and subsequent cracking,as in
> exhaust systems.*And* about the weight,which surely must be greater
> than a mild steel chassis.
> Or perhaps this is all just sour grapes...........
Well, I called Merseyside to find out its only another ~100 quid for
the full galvanized frame (590 total), seems like that ought to
be the way to go...
Thanks for the info on LRO, hopefully that will arrive soon.
Have a good weekend,
Cheers, -- Bill
Message No 195
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 26 17:17:11 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Trouble and Strife
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 08:12:51 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
One of our club members is getting married! The stag was held at the
Prescott Hotel for Jason Dowell, who will marry the lovely Leonore on
Saturday. He was sporting ball and chain. Participants were resplendent
with black arm bands, both males and females. I drank much beer.
I was the only club member to bring a Land Rover. On asking, one club
member responded " Are you Kidding, it's too cold out there.}
Time for a new club award. The wooly pacifier. Is no kidding a form of
birth control?
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 197
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Nov 26 06:40:57 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Kodiak heaters
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 00:59:30 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes:
> Oh, Kodiak heaters seem to be rare. Also they are 20 + years old.
They are not rare up here, in fact the Smith's are rare. As for
mine, 30 years of sediment is probably the prblem.
Oh yeah, more names...
Al's 107 = Sally
Bruces 109 pick-up = Cedrick
Roy's 88 = HMS Never-run
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 199
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 19:44:37 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Kodiak heaters
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 16:38:25 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I have a Kodiak heater and they are great. Once the engine is warm it
belts out heat. Maybe, Dixon, yours is not as efficient because of the
thermistat not being original, as well as being a 109. It is much better
than the smiths that I had in the since sold series 3. It blew snow - no
joke. Mike, check out a Mansfield heater. They are very expensive here,
but over the pond they may be inexpensive. They are billed as being
warm.
I also have an external heater that is self contained, but I don't want
to drill holes for the rad pipes. Us purists.
Oh, Kodiak heaters seem to be rare. Also they are 20 + years old.
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 200
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 19:42:58 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Truck Names
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 16:22:02 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) writes:
> Ok everybody time to have fun. Let's hear the
> names each of us have for their Rover and if
> male or female. I'll go first.
>
Ok! Contest Time! My Land Rover does not have a name, though I have
called it various things that I can't repeat in public. It is green,
diesel, (smelly - I like to park it outside outdoor patio bars that are
soo popular here in the summer, then start her up. [evil chuckle] 68 88.
So send me some suggestions. What do you win? Satisfaction if yours is
chosen.
Dale Desprey
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 203
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 11:30:17 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Subject: Diesels
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 17:32:55
Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk
Status: RO
/To all those anti-diesel folk,I'd *much* rather sit on top of ten gallons
/of fuel oil,than the equivalent amount of nasty volatile petroleum spirit!
/Particularly when I smoke (not quite as much as the Rover,but nearly).
/I distinctly recall the occasion,not so long ago,when I smelt a whiff of
/diesel on my way home at night.On inspection,the brass spill pipe plug
/had come out of number two injector,lending a whole new meaning to the
/term "spill".The stuff was being pumped out all over the engine!Yours
/truly retires in haste to workshop,clutching offending part,and turns up
/a new plug on the lathe,all the while reflecting that had that amount of
/petrol been wandering about loose on a hot engine,I wouldnt have needed
/the heater at all!
/
Also you can cook in em without worying whether your stove will blow the whole
thing inside out.
Message No 207
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 10:29:10 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1993 16:31:10
Cc: azw@aber.ac.uk
Status: RO
/I have never ever seen advertised,heard of,seen in use,or anything
/else,an aluminium chassis.New chassis are available black painted
/or galvanised,but steel *not* alloy.So I dont believe it.Had such
/a chassis been available,it's a pound to a penny that it would have
/been advertised in the Land Rover Owner magazine.Unless I'm going
/daft in my old age (not beyond the bounds of possibility)I would
/have seen it,and I havent.
/Considering the cost of producing such an item to equal the strength
/of a steel chassis,the specialised welding required in manufacture,
//*and* the possible handling characteristics of a vehicle so equipped
/(a/ *true* lightweight?),it seems very unlikely.
/In the remote event of such a thing existing,I still wouldnt trust
/it.However it *would* be interesting to know where this bloke is
/going to get it from.Any idea?
One of the oil industry ancillaries in Scotland makes stainless chassis. I
asaw this in LROwner a couple of years ago, so I cant supply any details, butt
his has to be the way to go. Expensive, (1500quid then, I think) but the lorry
will become a family heirloom......
Message No 208
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 04:47:21 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Heaters
To: twakeman@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 93 10:47:49 GMT
Status: RO
Thanks for that description,Teriann,I wont lose it this time!
As I suspected,the assembly uses a squirrel cage fan,and I think
this is my problem,not that the heater doent have the heat capacity,
but that the fan is wrong for the duty.To explain,my heater *is* a
Smiths type,but not the round "towel dryer" variety.It is,in effect
a rectangular shallow steel box,bolted to (or rather an inch or so
away from)the bulkhead directly in front of the main gear lever.In
either end of the box is a flap,facing sideways into the footwells,
and above each flap are the windshield air hoses.The back end of the
motor sticks out into the cab.The fan,much to my surprise,is a
propellor type,rather than the centrifugal,or squirrel cage type.
What is happening,therefore,is that the fan is drawing in air between
the bulkhead and heater unit,and bashing it directly into the face of
the heater box.Now the air needs to exit the heater box *at right angles*
to this direction of flow.Which it does,after a fashion,but only because
it has nowhere else to go,*not* because it is being directed.So the fan
cavitates and fiddles about,and any resistance(such as when the flaps
are shut to direct air up to the screen)is not overcome,and you get a
faint zephyr,if that,out of the demister vents.Speeding up the motor
wouldnt help much,because *any* fan is really only efficient at one
speed.
So what I thought was that if I replaced the prop with a centrif fan,
which would actually spin the air off directly across the heater
matrix radiators;there are two,one each side just behind the flaps;
this would give me a more efficient airflow at the same fan speed.
Comments,laughs,etc,more than welome,and thanks for all the helpful
comments so far
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 209
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Nov 25 00:31:37 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Kodiak Heaters
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1993 23:51:36 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes:
> The Kodiak heater is just a large version of the standard Land Rover heater
> the one that has a fresh air intake through a hole in the side of the wing, n
> the Smiths "ankle burner". I think you're better off with the OEM version,
> because you can get parts. If that's not enough heat for you I'm sure the fan
> motor could be replaced with stonger one.
For our winters, ideally you want both the kodiak heater for the
windscreen, and a Series I heater for the inside of the cab. The
one kodiak will not do an adequate job at both. Of course, with a
109, you can forget trying to get warm, as there is just too much
volume to heat. Kodiaks can be had up here, and seem to be fairly
common, but they tend to be taken up and claimed by various owners.
It may be possible to locate spares. I'll check about...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 212
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 09:23:08 1993
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 15:21:33 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: names
Status: RO
> Ok everybody time to have fun. Let's hear the
> names each of us have for their Rover and if
> male or female. I'll go first.
Nigel Hamilton-'60 serII 88 blindsider. absolutely no
relation to the British author. Nigel because it fit,
Hamilton stolen from the sigoth's mother's maiden name.
Formally, he is known by both first and last name, but
most often the name is trunkated (Nige, daNige, Nigeguy).
Positively male (just look underneath him and catch a
glimpse of the Fairey OD unit-no question).
Rover Roach-'67 serIIA 88 formerly soft top, since gone
psuedo-hardtop (no rear door). The farm rig, socalled
Rover Roach because, at a glance, it is. Mechanically
sound, but quite the eyesore.
Red Rover-'67 serIIA 88 hardtop. Resto project (someday
...........). Not yet given a true proper name since
it (no gender assigned yet) has yet to spring to life.
rdushin
Message No 215
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 10:14:02 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: aluminum roll-over rivet crimping tool availability
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 10:12:15 -0600 (CST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1507
Status: RO
It was cold this morning and the wind whipped thru
the crack next to the door tops. I want to put on
new rubber strips, but don't have it all figured out
yet. Maybe somebody out there could give me some
guidance.
I have the OE rubber strips in house and I ordered the little
aluminum rivets with the rounded caps and holes that are meant
to be rolled-over with a special tool of some sort.
I don't have the proper tool to squeeze down the rivets, though,
and haven't started the project of putting them on.
They look a lot like brake-lining rivets.
I have a little roll-over punch insert that goes
goes into a brake stand crimper and that would work good.
What I need, though is some sort of plier or vise-grip arrangement
that is portable and could be manuvered up around the door opening.
Lanny (at RN), says "...everybody uses pop rivets..." but
I haven't given up yet. If anybody out there knows where I
could buy the proper special tool for crimping those aluminum
rivets, I would be grateful -- it sounds crazy, but I would
spring up to $$$ for the tool. I have a design on paper to build
one, but that would take (me at least) a while to get to.
IDEAS???
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000
- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project)
- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's)
- 80 MGB - xx
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 216
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 10:49:27 1993
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 08:48:20 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, twakeman@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Heaters
Status: RO
In message <9311251047.AA17495@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes:
> Thanks for that description,Teriann,I wont lose it this time!
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
>
Mike, Sorry I got the description wrong. I spend a bit of time under the bonnet
this last weekend & noticed the heater was not as I remembered. Here is how it
really goes:
The radiator sits on the intake of the squrrel fan and not in the bulkhead as I
orignially described.. The fan pulls air from the outside through the hole in
the wing through the radiator, into itself, then pushes the warm air through a
hole in the bulkhead into the interior ducting.
The hole in the bulkhead is much smaller than I thought and the instillation
should be easier.
If you are doing a install on a LR that never had one on it, you might pull the
air out of the passanger compartment. At least I would if I live in Dixon's
area.
Dixon, if your car gets up to normal operating temperatures, and your heater
radiator is ont clogged, you should be getting gushes of HOT air comingg out
your vents.
But there are those who put a second heater in the rear of 109s. Others with
109 regulars just pull a curtain behind the drivers seat cutting off the front
from the back.
Appologies for the wrong first discription.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 218
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 11:25:42 1993
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 09:19:01 -0800
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Series III brake/clutch questions
Status: RO
I need a bit of assistance from you series III owners.
I am in the process of converting a IIA 109 from single brakes to power assisted
duels. I have a few of questions about your cars.
1. On the duel master cylinder, does the front part (closest to the radiator) go
to the front brakes or the rear or does it matter.
2. Does the clutch master cylinder's fluid resevoir sit up against the bulkhead
or is it turned in the same direction as the brake cylinder with the resevoir
closest to the radiator?
2A. If it is against the bulkhead, is the wing mounting bracket affixed to the
bulkhead straight or is it cut out for the resevoir cap?
3. What is the distance along the top of the wing between the seam where the
wing side mount to the top and the cut out is for the clutch master cylinder
resevoir?
4. What is the distance along the cutout for the master clutch/ brake cylinder
front to rear?
I have most of the work done. I have fitted the new brake assembly into the car
and run a new brake line down to the junction. I have fitted the new clutch
master assembly to the old peddle assembly and discovered that one of the welded
nuts on the bulkhead wing mount bracket interfers with removing the resevoir
cap, and that I would need to remove the wing to check clutch fluids. I'm not
sure if I need to put in a series III clutch peddle assembly, or just cut out
the wing top and rear mounting bracket. I would like to do this right and have
it look correct. Any help would be appriciated.
When this is done, I will write up a set of instructions and a parts list for
anyone else who wants to make this safety modification.
Thanks for your help,
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that
twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start
LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 221
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 30 04:46:10 1993
From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Series III brake/clutch questions
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 10:45:28 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <H75sDc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "dixon kenner" at Nov 29, 93 10:07:04 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3972
Status: RO
> Something to add to the FAQ. When I locate a dual system off of a
> Series III that is going to be scrapped, I am going to make this
> modification too. The regular brakes just don't cut it. Despite
> being bled to death, they are still multi-pump. I must admit when
> they manage to start to work on the second, or subsequent pumps,
> they do work rather well...
Bleeding brakes on a land rover is usually a pain, but here are a few tips
passed on to me by a franchised dealer in the UK.
First of all, on brakes with a leading and a trailing shoe (ie rears), make
sure that there is one leading and one trailing shoe per side. This may sound
obvious but on the rear axle of my 109, I discovered two leading shoes on the
RHS and two trailing shoes on the LHS. The result of this is that the
adjusters do not contact the pegs on the shoes properly, which not only means
that the shoes cannot be adjusted properly (and that they therefore sit too
far from the drum resulting in excessive pedal travel) but also that they
cannot be de-adjusted properly (to minimise the cylinder volume when bleeding,
so air remains trapped even though none appears to be coming out). Leading
shoes can be identified by the greater expanse of bare metal above the lining
at the end which contacts the piston of the wheel cylinder.
Second, invest in three hydraulic hose clamps. Clamp off all hoses - if you
still have a spongy pedal the master cylinder (or less frequently, the servo
if you have a remote servo) requires attention. If your pedal is rock hard
(as was mine), then remove the rear clamp and see if the pedal is still hard.
If not, then obviously there is some air still present in the rear cylinders.
Before bleeding the rear, replace the rear clamp, and in turn, unclamp the
fronts one at a time to see if there is any air at the front (there usually is
on 109s because the bleed nipple is at the bottom instead of the top which is
where it really ought to be, and so it is much harder to expel - the fact that
the nipples are too close to the arms on the swivel housing doesn't help much
when you're trying to get a hose on them either).
Having located the air, de-adjust the shoes, and unclamp the rear hose. Bleed
the side furthest from the T-piece first. When you have bled the rear, with
the fronts still clamped, check your pedal - it should be rock hard, as rears
aren't that hard to do. As a precaution (though strictly unnecessary) reclamp
the rear, and move to the fronts if these need doing. Unclamp the hose
furthest from the 3-way junction (ie the left on RHD and the right on LHD) and
bleed.
Personally, I use a Gunson's Eezibleed which is an inexpensive pressure
bleeder pressurised by air from a spare tyre and which prevents any
possibility of air being drawn-in (even if you do pump the pedal manually to
augment the pressure), but if you are pumping the pedal manually, a) you need
to make sure someone is on hand to close the bleed valve before you release
the pedal, to preclude air being drawn past the threads; and b) try really
ramming the pedal as hard as you can in order to deliver as much force as
possible into the wheel cylinder, as this may help to dislodge stubborn
bubbles.
When complete, with the other two hoses still clamped, check your pedal - I
would be very surprised if it were still not firm. Reclamp, and bleed the
remaining wheel. Before removing the other clamps, check your pedal. Finally
remove all clamps and you should have wonderful, at times heart-stopping,
brakes.
It is of course worth bearing in mind that if the seals in the wheel cylinders
are worn, it may be impossible to achieve a lasting hydraulic seal, in which
case no amount of bleeding will help you...
I say all this having spent approx. 30 pounds sterling (US $45) on brake fluid
before I finally managed to bleed my 109 successfully.
Marcus.
Message No 225
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 30 00:13:42 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Series III brake/clutch questions
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 22:07:04 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> I am in the process of converting a IIA 109 from single brakes to power assis
> duels. I have a few of questions about your cars.
I will print your message out and bring it over to Ted Rose's
tomorrow evening. We will take a look at his Series III and get
some definate answers for you. Dave Meadows' Series IIA is going
to this system, but we have not gotten to that stage yet. This is
to occur later this week when we get the brake lines.
> When this is done, I will write up a set of instructions and a parts list for
> anyone else who wants to make this safety modification.
Something to add to the FAQ. When I locate a dual system off of a
Series III that is going to be scrapped, I am going to make this
modification too. The regular brakes just don't cut it. Despite
being bled to death, they are still multi-pump. I must admit when
they manage to start to work on the second, or subsequent pumps,
they do work rather well...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 227
I really must check out that heater unit. From the temperature
coming out, it could be blocked, though the engine temperature
seems to like to stay fairly low in this beast. <sigh>
> But there are those who put a second heater in the rear of 109s. Others with
> 109 regulars just pull a curtain behind the drivers seat cutting off the fron
> from the back.
This will probably happen with a piece of canvas, blanket, or
otherwise added behind the front seats. The rear now has ballast
for those icey roads in the form of an engine and gearbox and other
assorted heavy Land Rover parts. They should weigh it down far
more effectively than bags of sand.
As per additional heat in the front, I would love to find a surplus
Series I heater. At least that would look a lot nicer, and fit
better than the spare heater box assembly out of either my surplus
TR-7 or Austin Mini.
Rgds,
Dixon
PS, Dave Meadows' Land Rover is slowly coming back together. It
looks fantastic. Everything has been cleaned, a mydrid parts
replaced, the engine is pristine with a new coat of paint
(blue, he hates the light green Land Rover colours), the
gearbox cleaned until it look as if it was a new unit. The
greatest benefit from this exercise has been to really see that
new parts, or at least well cleaned and painted parts make the
reassembly task far easier.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 228
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 18:44:46 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Mailer Mangling and Missed Messages
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 29 Nov 93 16:57:07 CST."
<9311292257.AA11514@shute.monsanto.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 19:43:54 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> are not seen by all. And I don't know if this is intentional,
> caused by bad "reply-to" headers in the e-mail,
> I think this is one of the reasons LRO has a tendency to be somewhat low
> volume. The messages to lro@transfer.stratus.com are resent out with the
> return address of the original sender. By default, the response is only to
> the original poster, not the list as a whole.
Actually it depends on the configuration on the mailer, some are
promicous and reply to all receivers, while others are set up for
privacy and and reply to the sender directly.
At the present time, only the 'return-path' is set, but that is mostly
for use in error reporting situations. I've not made any progress on
setting up under Majordomo (w.r.t. my sys admins), maybe I'll get
that moving this December.
'still planning the rover rebuild'
-- Bill
Message No 230
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 29 16:56:45 1993
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: Mailer Mangling and Missed Messages
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 16:57:07 CST
In-Reply-To: <9311232025.AA16115@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Nov 23, 93 2:25 pm
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said:
>
> When I was reading thru the LRO digests, I noticed instances
> where conversation was referred to that I didn't remember.
> ...
> are not seen by all. And I don't know if this is intentional,
> caused by bad "reply-to" headers in the e-mail,
> ...
I think this is one of the reasons LRO has a tendency to be somewhat low
volume. The messages to lro@transfer.stratus.com are resent out with the
return address of the original sender. By default, the response is only to
the original poster, not the list as a whole.
Ray's suggestions all work great, but I often forget to change the address
from that of the original poster to lro@transfer.stratus.com, and always
forget to cc the list.
In the spirit of making the computer do the work, what about adding a
"Reply-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com" header to all messages sent out by the
list software? Many (if not all) of the other lists I belong to do this,
and it works great! I really enjoy the list traffic, and I am sure it
would be higher this way. Private conversations are still easily available
by changing the address, but I think most of us would like our responses to
be going to the list...
Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Message No 231
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 30 08:41:22 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Hose Clamps,Backwoods Style
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 14:39:09 GMT
Status: RO
Marcus says "invest in hose clamps" when bleeding brakes.Should your
investment capital be,like mine,conspicuous by its absence,a set can
be easily and cheaply concocted.
Liberate a length of broom handle,and cut into,say,four inch lengths,
three off.Find six bolts and nuts to fit same.Also twelve washers.
Drill clearance holes through the ends of each bit of broom handle.
Now,getting *really* technical,saw each bit of broom handle in half
*down its length*.Mark each pair for later identification.What you
now have is six semicircular bits of wood wiv an 'ole at each end,
hopefully identified as pairs.Turn each pair so the flat side is
outside,and fit a bolt,washer,washer,nut.Fit over the flexible hose
and do likewise at the other end,and tighten the nuts.Not *too* tight.
The rounded surface will not damage the hose.I know,I've done it.
The only thing to suffer from the above is the broom and its usual
driver,who will be reduced to sweeping the yard on his/her knees.
At this point a strategic withdrawal is indicated,aided by a large
cloud of black diesel smoke to provide cover.Oh *and dont forget to
take all the clamps off*.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 233
From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Nov 30 16:36:42 1993
From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester)
Subject: Frames: Manufacturers
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 16:38:35 CST
Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
Status: RO
Grettings and salutations:
With all the talk of frames of late, I thought it would be
interesting to hear from anyone who has done a frameover. Specifically,
I am interested in learning about who the actually manufacturers (not
just distributors) are and of any variance in quality of the frames they
offer (or how complete they are). Anyone have the skinny on this? i.e.
are there some one should steer clear of vs. more desirable ones?
While my present Rover is not in need of a new one, I dream of a project
109...
Paul
generic (no name) 1973 SIII 88
--
******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ******************
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* Project Manager | understand what you think was *
* VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you *
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