Message No 1
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 00:26:22 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Past Posts
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 23:33:43 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) writes:
> Does anyone have a log of the posts from 27,28,29 September? Our server was
> down and I missed out. Just send me yes answers, and I'll contact one of
> you back (E-mail me direct in case the thing crashes again).
I have most, if not all, messages from 14 April 1993 online
(messages 415 through 964).
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 2
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 09:49:39 1993
Return-Path: <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
From: Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: intro and emissions questions
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 10:32:29 EDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Hello All;
Thanks all for your replys to my 'test' posting to the lro mailing list.
I don't think I'm acutally subscribed as I did not receive a copy of
my posting. I hope that sometime in the near future I'll be added
to the mailing list. I sent my request in a couple of weeks ago :-(
So I would appreicate it if you would send me your responses directly
to dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil
Yes, I do share a life with a Land-Rover. I recently acquired
a '74 88 Series III in "good" condition. The vehicle has about 60k
miles on it and the engine was rebuilt in baltimore, maryland in
'85 and has about 30k miles on it. It has a farily overdrive and
the transmission seems to "pop" out of second a little too often, and the
engine is in dire need of a good tuning and the carb a good cleaning.
First off I have to figure out why the distribuator move/rotates even
when the lockdown bolt is fairly tight, any ideas ?
The previous owner only had it for 6 months but during that time he
replaced the back end of the frame, front "horns", floorboards, installed
new "tall" tires on the original 15" rims, and rebuilt/repaired the brakes.
In addition he painted the whole vehicle painted tan, including the roof.
The prep job for the paint work is good, but I think earl schibe could do
a better job sparying paint. The original color was poppy seed red.
The frame is in good shape a few signs of rust but nothing serious.
There is some rust perforation of the fire wall and the bottom of the
door frames are on their last legs, I guess I'll be looking into that.
I'm in the process of repairing the clutch hydrolic system. Some time
in the past the original hydrolic clutch line from the master cly. was
replaced by a plumbers dream that had about 6 joints in it in the span
of about 8inches. Needless to say that was leaking a tad. I just
received the parts yesterday and hope to install them this evening. and the
I'll be back on the road. :-) A on to fixing other items.
In Alexandria, VA all vehicles less then 21 years of age need polution
inspection. After some investigation it has been determined that
the rover should have a PCV system ( which it does ) and an fuel
evaporative system, which it does not apperar to have.
There are two fuel lines leading from the gas tank into the engine
compartment. One goes to the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump, up to a
fuel filter located midline on top of the fire wall and then into the
carb. The other fuel line looks like it was chopped off and is
just sitting in the engine compartment near the base of the air filter.
Does anybody know where this line should go, or what the original
configuration for the evaporative control system was ?
A couple of other questions -
Is there an archive site for the landrover owners mailing list ?
I'd like to gather tidbits of information and wisdom from it with
out asking the entire group the same old tired questions.
Why does it leak oil, does it have anything to do with it's british
heritage :-).
Cheers
Dan
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil
Naval Research Lab, Code 7420 (202) 767-2024 (voice)
Washington D.C. 20375-5320 (202) 767-0167 (fax)
Message No 3
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 11:52:16 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 16:35:25 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: nightmare
Nigel's gotta blown water pump bearing. It used to have this grinding
sound-now it is a full-blown squeek and massive leaks have developed.
Yesterday, I decided to remove the pump-something that hadn't been done
for decades. Unfortunately, two of three bolts that hold the pump on
that bolt into the block itself (these three bolt through the timing
chain cover on the right side of the engine as viewed from the front and
hold the pump on in the vicinity of the coolant entry to the block) managed
to sheer off. I am now left with two broken studs that are deeply recessed
into the timing chain cover and as I see it, I have two options:
1) try to use an EZ-out with the timing chain cover on. This could be
tough. It will be difficult enough to drill a straight-on hole into the
broken studs (without being able to see them), much less get an EZ-out
straight into them. Additionally, I will be unable to get pentrating oil
into the threads and/or heat the block with the cover in place.
2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same.
To get the cover off I will need to remove the pulley on the mainshaft.
My Rover workshop manual just says to remove it (and lists a special
tool that looks just like a regular spannar to me-anyone got one and it
is it a "special tool"??). My Haynes manual lists two methods-one of which
I really do not like (you decide which is better):
method a: remove the sump and place a block of wood between the crankcase
and the crankshaft, then remove the large nut.
method b: remove the starter motor and wedge a screwdriver between the
case and the teeth on the flywheel.
I am currently leaning towards method a, but if any of you have had
success with b I may give it a shot (I AM leary of breaking teeth, however,
as I have absolutely no idea how tight the pulley nut is going to be).
Obviously, I am open to suggestions.
Winter being just around the corner.
rdushin/Nigel
Message No 7
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 11:51:54 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 09:31:22 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu
Subject: Re: nightmare
rdushin,
I'm sorry to read that Nigel is in such poor straights.
I don't think you want to try to E-Z out the studs with the timing cover in
place unless you like metal shavings inside Nigel'e engine :^0
If you have shipfitter's diesese this may be a dangerous job. I have a near
terminal case of it. If it was me I would already be ordering a new
timing chain and tensioner. I might even consider new gears. I mean they do
wear & your there already. And if you are going to drop the pan, you need
to check out the bearings and replace them if they are worn. Since the
oil pump is right there, it would make sinse to check it for wear and to
replace the 'O' ring on the pickup. But before I would pull the pan, I would
check compression. I mean, as long as the pan is off and you pull the caps,
your are most of the way to a ring job if you need one. & if you do that you
can get hardened seats put into the head for unleaded petrol.
My Rover burnt an exhaust valve and she ended up with a rebuilt engine,
rebult transmission, two new drive shafts, the radiator bulkhead and front of th
frame stripped down to bare metal and repainted, a new radiator, new speedo
cable and new speedomoter.
The MGBGT brunt an exhaust valve and got a valve job with hardened seats,
rebuilt/rebushed SUs, new SMOG hoses, rebult brake calapers/cylinders,
new brake pads/shoes, new petrol tank and new inside door panels.
My TR3 was going to get a rebilt engine, new wiring harness and new interior.
It is just now coming back together from a total frame off restoration.
So you can just replace the studs and water pump, but wile you are at it and
part way there anyway, you can just do a little more ;*)
Oh try an impact wrench on the front nut. I just used one on the TR3's
engine last weekend. Did'nt need anything to keep things from turning.
TeriAnn
Message No 9
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 09:47:34 1993
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: nightmare
> Content-Length: 1928
> X-Lines: 40
> >
> 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same.
YES! Radiator out too, so you have room to work. Drill straight!
>
> rdushin/Nigel
Dear Nigel,
Have your owner try this, it worked on Elephino:
Put the correct size socket attached to a hefty flex handle on the bolt
in question. Rotate the engine until the flex handle (or rachet, set on "undo")
rests frimly on the frame on the left side. Some duct tape will help hold things
in position. Put the beastie in reverse, let it roll down the driveway
backwards a little ways, then pop the clutch. If you don't have a driveway with
nice slope, another Rover and a tow strap will do the job.
You can also go forward, but pick a forward gear. The idea is that the engine
turns in it's normal direction, but the bolt can't turn, so gets "un-screwed".
Good luck getting those nasty rusted bolts out.
Regards, Bill G.
Message No 11
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:22:18 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 18:05:35 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: my bad dreams......
Folks-
thanks for the thoughtful insight. gonna be a problem getting air
(much less electricity) into the "work area" (a field, dusted with
manure) so I may have to forgo the air-driven impact. Ye 'ol hammer
driven impact is certainly gonna be an early choice. I do like the
"brace-it-and-roll" method, though, so if the impact doesn't work
I'll try that next.
also not so sure just how deep into this I am prepared to get......
Nige has decent compression (at last check they were all 125+, if
I remember correctly) and runs smooth as silk, so I'm tempted to
avoid the total overhaul-on-account-of-a-blown-waterpump situation.
Sound advice, though, nonetheless......I'll be taking it one step
at a time.
thanks again,
rdushin/Nigel
Message No 12
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:38:33 1993
Return-Path: <gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:22:48 EDT
From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Spontaneous denting?
Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied
beasts, can you tell me what's going on here?
This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same
one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for
20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body
panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately
assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an
accident report.
At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and
I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that
is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also,
the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not
damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close
inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint
damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle.
In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The
only indication that there might have been a collision is the
dent.
So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known
to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am
only an unenlightened seeker.
Any ideas?
George
g.mayhew @ieee.org
Message No 13
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:53:47 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: nightmare
In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Sun, 03 Oct 93 09:35:25 -0800.
<9310031635.AA00871@y1.sdsc.edu>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 12:44:19 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
When using an EZ out, I have found that I have a much higher rate of
success in drilling with two modifications to the "usual directions":
1) Use left handed drill bits (and a reversible drill) to do the
drilling. Sometimes, just the vibration and heat in the "right"
direction will get the broken piece to come out.
2) MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! This can be something as simple as a piece of
round stock that fits down the existing hole with a hole drilled in the
center for the drill bit to a plate that bolts up in three existing
bolts on the block and has a hole in the proper place. In any event, it
is critical to get the hole for the EZout as straight and close to
center as possible. Making the guide will take some extra time, but
it's worth it in the end.
Removing a mainshaft pulley nut can often be done by using the starter
to apply the needed torque. Get the right sized socket and a long
breaker bar. Attach to nut. Turn slowly in the normal direction of
rotation until the bar contacts some piece of the car (like the
fender). Put a piece of two by four at said point of contact. Turn the
bar in reverse direction, and hit the starter.
Scary in concept, but amazingly effective...
Message No 14
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 19:55:22 1993
Return-Path: <burns@cisco.com>
From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting?
To: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310041822.AA05815@sven.lerc.nasa.gov>; from "George Mayhew" at Oct 4, 93 2:22 pm
The only dent I have put in my RR is from jack knifing a trailer,
and running into an elk. But if your a little on the tight side,
carry $1000 deductable, and don't want your rates raised,
the rear body panels unbolt except for 5 pop-rivets and then
with a little persuasion with a plastic mallet you can pop out
the dent. Mine was a pretty big dent so it took a lot of persuasion.
Also from my hamering experience, the paint is quite mallable.
Russ
a Deranged Rover
>
> Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied
> beasts, can you tell me what's going on here?
>
> This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same
> one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for
> 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body
> panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately
> assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an
> accident report.
>
> At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and
> I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that
> is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also,
> the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not
> damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close
> inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint
> damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle.
> In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The
> only indication that there might have been a collision is the
> dent.
>
> So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known
> to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am
> only an unenlightened seeker.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> George
> g.mayhew @ieee.org
>
>
Message No 15
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 20:42:09 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 01:29:33 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: drill guide??
Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
>MAKE A DRILL GUIDE!
geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing
chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although
there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground).
I was actually contemplating the value of using the timing chain cover
as a guide (with the bits of metal shavings in mind, however). The
broken ends appear to be smooth and clean, and are (from my best estimation)
a tad over an inch in (ie an inch into the cover, broken just at or close
to the block). If I did this I might actually avoid having to remove
the cover (and the pulley, and potentially the sump, starter, and do a
total engine overhaul......)-but I'd have to make damned sure that I
don't drill too deep or off center. Risky business.
Then again, since I don't yet own any EZouts (good to have, though) and
I do have a torch and vise grips, I may opt for the tear-him-down method.
(I could always throw the cover back on and use it if needed).
hmmmmm,
rdushin/Nigel
Message No 16
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 00:50:05 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: drill guide??
In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Mon, 04 Oct 93 18:29:33 -0800.
<9310050129.AA35845@y1.sdsc.edu>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 22:11:50 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing
chain cover).......
The problem is that the hole you need to drill for the EZout is a
smaller diameter than the hole that you broke the bolt off in...
Yes, be careful of the depth. When you're off buying EZouts and left
handed drill bits, buy some drill stops, too.
Message No 21
> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:37:34 1993
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: drill guide??
> Content-Length: 1045
> X-Lines: 25
>
>
>
> >MAKE A DRILL GUIDE!
>
> geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing
> chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although
> there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground).
>
> hmmmmm,
> rdushin/Nigel
>
Yeh, but, you don't want to drill the bolt out with a drill that's the same
size as the hole in the timming chain cover. You still need a piece of tube
that just fits the cover (outside diameter) and the drill bit of choice (id).
Hobby stores that cater to the radio control folks, sell lengths of brass
tube that come in diameters that are increments of 1/32", so each one fits
inside the next. I have a 1" section of each size from 1/16" to 1/2" for just
this purpose. I have gotten broken bolts out without an "easy-out" by drilling
straight down the middle, several times with increasing sizes of bit, up to the
root diameter of the thread. then the remains of the thread just pulls out and
looks like a spring. Chase with the correct tap and it's as good as new.
R, bg
Message No 23
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:13:43 1993
Return-Path: <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
To: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Cc: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT."
<9310050040.AA25290@ash.cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 93 18:00:37 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
> This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same
> one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for
> 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body
> panel, just below the window.
> ... What really baffles me is that, on very close
> inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint
> damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle.
! > In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The
! > only indication that there might have been a collision is the
! > dent.
> So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known
> to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am
> only an unenlightened seeker.
Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up,
but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it
could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased,
but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local
computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know,
it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it
on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick.
-- Bill
Message No 24
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:06 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Cc: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>,
gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting?
In-Reply-To: caloccia's message of Tue, 05 Oct 93 15:00:37 -0800.
<9310052200.AA28926@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1993 15:21:59 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
An old bodywork trick that I was taught it to let the panel get heated
by the sun and then run an ice cube over it. Often the high temperature
differential will pop the panel right out.
Message No 27
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 04:00:04 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Newer LRs
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com (I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 9:50:13 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310060402.AA10129@easynet.crl.dec.com>; from "I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on" at Oct 6, 93 12:08 am
Monty,
The 90/110 series Land Rovers have,basically,the Range Rover suspension
and drivetrain.NOT independant suspension,but coil springs,centre diff
etc.CV joints have replaced the old universal,or Hooke,joints in the
front axle.Obviously,with the centre diff 4WD is permanent.
Land Rover *did* once try independant suspension(on a leaf sprung)but
the problem with that is that the diff(s) is/are bolted to the chassis,
and therefore more prone to grounding than with the "beam" axle,and the
experiment was not continued.
Current engines are the trusty V8,or the equally trusty,but much newer,
Tdi diesel 2.5L.This is a new Land Rover designed Turbocharged,intercooled
diesel,direct injection,using the Bosch three spring injection system,which
is said to make it a much quieter engine.Certainly the ones I have heard are
definitely not noisy units,even on tickover,although they are obviously
noisier than the V8,but Land Rover say that 70% of production is,in fact,
diesel powered,possibly due to the economy factor.
Inside,the "Defender" range,(stil Land Rovers to most of us)has lost its
centre seat:-( and has a "cubby box" instead,with the outer seats moved
inwards about an inch to give more elbow room,and is trimmed with "County
Clorth" (in upper crust English)cloth to you and me.God help dog owners.
Body styles are much as they always were.The main difference in appearance
is the radiator grille which is flush with the wing fronts to provide room
for the V8,initially,one piece windshield,and one piece doors with wind down
windows.These doors,if you can afford them,will fit S11,S11A,and S111 models,
provided that you use the current hinges and door striker plate on your
old machine.Otherwise,you can get the usual truck cab,blind hardtop etc,but
NOT the full softtop,except on the new limted edition yuppy version.
Off road performance is said to be much better than with the leaf sprung
versions,due to the increased suspension travel.The downside is that
rebushing the suspension is *much* more expensive,and is not really a DIY
prospect.
Despite this,I want one:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth
PS (But I want to keep my old 11A as well)
Message No 28
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 09:02:46 1993
Return-Path: <gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 09:49:31 EDT
From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew)
To: burns@cisco.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting?
Cc: gmayhew@tornadic.sw.stratus.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up,
> but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it
> could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased,
> but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local
> computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know,
> it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it
> on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick.
>
> -- Bill
>
It's a rear panel--no heat source nearby. The likely cause is
vandalism, I guess. I can't figure why the dirt wasn't smudged.
I think I can get to the inside of the panel where it's dented
by removing the spare tire from the cargo area. There will be
less chance of damaging the paint if I push from the inside.
I'm definitely not handy at bodywork, so I'll approach it gingerly.
Any pointers will be appreciated.
George
Message No 30
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 7 03:37:49 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Aluminium frame?
To: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca (DAVID SPENCER)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 9:28:51 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <009739FC.64313F80.29789@esseX.stfx.ca>; from "DAVID SPENCER" at Oct 6, 93 6:09 pm
David,
I have never ever seen advertised,heard of,seen in use,or anything
else,an aluminium chassis.New chassis are available black painted
or galvanised,but steel *not* alloy.So I dont believe it.Had such
a chassis been available,it's a pound to a penny that it would have
been advertised in the Land Rover Owner magazine.Unless I'm going
daft in my old age (not beyond the bounds of possibility)I would
have seen it,and I havent.
Considering the cost of producing such an item to equal the strength
of a steel chassis,the specialised welding required in manufacture,
*and* the possible handling characteristics of a vehicle so equipped
(a *true* lightweight?),it seems very unlikely.
In the remote event of such a thing existing,I still wouldnt trust
it.However it *would* be interesting to know where this bloke is
going to get it from.Any idea?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 32
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 01:56:31 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Aluminium frame?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 23:25:44 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
DAVID SPENCER <x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca> writes:
> Does anybody know about alumium frames, are they weaker? less durable?
> Any Knowlegde of this ?
I have never heard of such a thing. When one steps back and thinks
about it, it doesn't really make that much sense. An aluminium
frame, to have the same strength as a stell one is going to have to
be much thicker. To weld such a thing is not going to be as simple
as a steel frame, and when one either galvanises a steel frame, or
adds a lot of paint/oil/undercoating, will be much cheaper than the
aluminium equivalent when delivered.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 34
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 06:34:02 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Humvees
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:21:56 BST
I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees
for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have
seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers),
particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they
actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big
to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field.
Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously
like fully independent to me),are they any *good*?
I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any
technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 36
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:12:29 1993
Return-Path: <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Date: 08 Oct 1993 09:00:41 -0700
From: Paul Anderson <ACUS05@waccvm.corp.mot.com>
To: <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/10/08 13:06:10 UT from (M.J.ROOTH) Mike Rooth"
Subject: Re: Humvees
X-Post: RSFLAGS
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
>I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees
>for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have
>seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers),
>particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they
>actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big
>to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field.
>Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously
>like fully independent to me),are they any *good*?
>I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any
>technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-)
The civilian version of the HUMVEE is called the Hummer. These vehicles
are made by AM General of South Bend, IN.
The Hummer has a 6.2L V-8 diesel engine made made by General Motors. It
delivers full-time power to all four wheels, which are independently
suspended. The body is aluminum except for the hood that is fiberglass.
The ground clearance is 16", but the vehicle is 7' wide.
I have driven one. It is the only vehicle that I would put up against
my Range Rover;-) The military life expectancy of the HUMVEE is 12 years.
The only hesitation is that its price ranges from $38K to $60K.
AM General used to send out a video tape and information. Their number
is 1-800-3-HUMVEE.
*============================================================================*
* * __________ *
* Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles *
* ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for *
* * (_) (_) Exceptional People| *
*============================================================================*
Message No 38
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:59:17 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:48:06 EDT
From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Humvees
I was curious about these so I purchased the service manual from
AM General. I don't have it in front of me but the basics are
as follows: 6.2L Diesel V8 delivering about 150 HP peak, 250 or
so ft-lbs torque. Suspension is independent, coil springs.
Hubs are geared allowing drive input to be higher than the hub
axis for greater ground clearance. Braking is inboard on at least
one and possibly both axles. I believe that the standard
transmission is a 3 speed automatic with a 2-speed transfer box.
For civilian sales, the body panels are beefed up to US spec.
A central tire inflation system is available. And, like LRs, comes
in a number of body styles. I've heard that other engines are\
available such as a gasoline 454 which I believe Arnold has in
(one) of his. Gov't price is under $30K but after NHSB, DOT, and
EPA certs, the civilian goes up quite a bit.
Personally, I think of it as a 21st century (and American) version
of the LandRover. It's big, it's fast (for the type), and seems
to be able to go over most anything. Yes, I would like one...
m
Message No 40
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 18:00:28 1993
Return-Path: <rhcaldw@nma>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:48:15 MDT
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Hummers
I drove the Hummers in the Gulf. They are very impressive to say
the least. And they are big. The common wisdom in the army is
that if one gets stuck it is driver error. The problem I see
with the thing is that it is BIG. And the tires are so big it
can not carry a spare. It also is not very operator-friendly
for outback repairs. With the trany and drive line stuck up
under it there is only room for four passengers and a small
rear cargo area. During the war it was common with the 3rd Cav
Regiment to see only two in one with the whole backend filled
with what was needed. Like sleeping bags, rucks, food and stuff.
The army uses a hard-top version for the MPs and, I must admit,
a very nice ambulance version for the medics. But the normal version
is hardtop which means no roof racks.
I went up some steep rock escarpments with one and was very pleased
with it's ability to climb. I have a photo of a Hummer with the
grill badge of a Merceds truck on it. But I guess the ultimate
experience was a night ride in a Hummer, as a passenger, using only
night vision goggels(NVG) and the slugger (global positioning device).
The navigator was watching the slugger display and telling the driver
simply go right or left. Guy was driving at about 30 to 35 across the
desert with no moon, no lights and just the NVG. It took us about
45 minutes to get to the camp but we drove right up to the perimeter
guard just like it was daylight. The Brits have hardwired sluggers in
many of their mil-Rovers. Anyway that's what I know about the things.
They are nice and do hold-up, but I will keep my Series IIA.
Roy
Message No 42
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 18:08:29 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 22:58:37 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: (r)evolution
David-
Many congrads on the new purchase. I, too, have wondered just when the
threaded vent controls were dropped......perhaps those out there with
'60-'64 models can shed some light on this. Glad to hear about the
rounded lenses (kinda cute, no?? I like the aerodynamic spoilers on
them!)-but beware, they are more difficult to replace than the later
"coned" versions (and I am told the light assembly is NLA)...thus, if
you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing
them with more available ones.
I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so
they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone
out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can
you check the Merseyside catalog for me??).
happy trails,
rd/nige
(who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post-
pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming
weeks).
Message No 44
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 00:26:45 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: evolution
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 22:48:23 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
DAVID SPENCER <x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca> writes:
> Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA
:-) Excellent!
> hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run
> on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this
> long...and recover?
Yes, and yes. The rings shouldn't have caused that nuch problem
with the bores.
> In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's
> interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine
> block?
To my knowledge, they are not interchangeable. The heads are
slightly different in the front. I'll check to make sure...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 45
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:00:00 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: (r)evolution
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 11:07:57 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes:
> If you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing
> them with more available ones.
Only eight this year, two of which were the aerodynamic version.
All will be the pointy types from now on. Makes it easier to spear
the tree I guess. My Rover now has nice new Ontario plates on it,
and even made it through a road trip to Kingston and back
yesterday. 'Twas a 200 mile round trip, went through 4 litres of
oil, ten gallons of gasoline (Hmmm, the distance must be wrong.
20/mpg? No way...), and one tire that I blew in Kingston. Granted
I had a ton of spare parts and tools, but did I remember the lug
wrench? Of course not. A quick trip to Canadian tire and the
purchase of a 15/16 socket solved that problem.
Got to pick up that overdrive. Between 42 and 46 mph makes for one
long trip. The cross winds made the 109 steer like a Zepplin, and
it didn't matter if I was on the pavement or soft shoulder letting
thousands of cars pass. Steering was the same in both places
(pretty good actually)
> I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so
> they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone
> out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can
> you check the Merseyside catalog for me??).
Have not found the Merseyside catalogue yet, but the RN catalogue
does not denote any water pumps pre-Series IIA. When I did it up,
I'll check. I have Merseyside sending me a complete print-out of
their complete stock, or available parts, so I will probably have
to wait until then.
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, Went down to Kingston to meet my mother and pick up a pair of
book shelves she brought up from Toronto. Considering that she has
been badgering me for years to "grow up" and scrap all of my cars
(TR-7's, Mini's, Cortina) and get something modern and nice, she
thought the Land Rover was "a scream", took lots of photos of it.
I finally found a vehicle that she likes... :-) (Didn't tell her
I had picked up an 88 though, or the condition to justify the $25
spent to purchase it...)
> (who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post-
> pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming
> weeks).
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 46
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:17:54 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: RE:No time for fun
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 10:57:09 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
DAVID SPENCER <x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca> writes:
> With regards to working and having time to spend with rovers, my recent
> purchase is bitter sweet. All I can do for now is oil everything and put
> it in the barn, may I should mop out the float bowl to,if it going to
> sit all winter? DS.
Well, if you are really keen you would put it in the barn, and put
it up on blocks so the suspension can hang. Otherwise, I wouldn't
clean out the float bowl as I would suggest that you go out there
once a month and run it for a little while to keep everything
lubricated.
BTW, your address denotes you residing at St. FX. You are not
going to get the little beast on the road? It would be quite the
status symbol with the students there... :-) (I went to Bishop's
and am somewhat familiar with your locale) What are you
taking/teaching that is going to preclude work on the important
things/toys in life? You new aluminium friend, I am sure, would
just love some attention and tlc.
Rgds,
Dixon
Message No 49
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 04:27:04 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: consumption
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 02:09:04 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes:
> but 50 mpl sounds about right!
I think it is time to start adding 10w40 or something similar. The
temperature is about -9c right now, was about 2c this morning. It
took me two hours to get the Rover to start. The 20w50 acted like
glue and drained my battery several times trying to get it to fire.
Granted a new battery would probably be a good idea, but it was a
bit much. Have to give RN a call Tuesday and see what they have in
the line of block heaters for the 2.25l engine. Since it can hit
-40c here, it might be a good idea. So might a second battery...
Rgds,
Dixon
BTW, it snowed lightly here today... :-( (Far to early, though I
am looking forward to ploughing through feet of the stuff in.)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 50
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 08:38:08 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: So what's new?
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 14:22:55 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310081525.AA17949@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 8, 93 4:25 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Mike said;
> On my way in to work after lunch today,I fell in behind a very neat
> '62 softtop,which,instead of the regular bottom hinged tailgate,featured
> a rear "Safari" door which had had the top half removed.The owner had
> used two bottom hinges to hang it with.Made a very nice job.
> Is nothing new?
No, I had this on my old Lightweight (non-standard). Good to hang the
spare on.
Best Regards,
Steve.
Message No 51
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 11:15:23 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:00:42 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, x92nca@essex.stfx.ca
Subject: Re: evolution
while into purchasing Land Rovers, I saw two for sale and one being parted
out on Sunday. In case anyone is in the market here are the details:
1966 109 Land Rover military (two door and long hard top). 4 cyl, over drive
new carb, new tyres. The car looks very solid and clean There is no rust on it.
Michael Pennington owns it. He is asking $10,000 (It is a very clean, nice
car). I believe he is in the Sonoma California area. 510-256-7727 home,
415-455-8917 work.
Jim Howat is storing a light gray 109 two door with soft top that I believe is
for sale for $4K. Drive train seems solid except compression is low in one
cylinder. Its a nice looking basic LR. It is located in Concord CA.
Contact Jims shop answering machine at 510-686-2255. Jim is also parting out
an 88. If anyone wants to tow away an 88 minus front axle, engine and gear box
I suspect you can do so very cheaply. As I recall the frame looks good and
the body panels are sound.
Oh The owner of the military 109 is also selling 1970 Jag XJ6, with rebuilt
engine, great interior and no rust for $5000, and a 1964 Austin Cooper S MKI
Station Wagon that has two car show wins. He wants $14K for that one.
TeriAnn
Message No 53
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 13:21:50 1993
Return-Path: <news@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu
From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840)
Newsgroups: mlist.lro
Subject: Re: evolution and Rochester Carbs
Date: 11 Oct 1993 11:06 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4
In article <00973C50.27C23BC0.5782@esseX.stfx.ca>, DAVID SPENCER writes...
>Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA
>It has tail lenses which are like those of more senior relative
>ie. Nigel and co. but also has windows in the rear instead of closed
>in sheet metal. The entire body of this lr is in perfect condition.
>It's almost a shame to "use" it. All seem to be in good running
>order, except the frame is broken in two just behind the transfer case
>cross member, so it went cheap. It has been idle for 2 years...I
>hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run
>on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this
>long...and recover?
Good find! Dixon writes of replacing the light assemblies. If I
recall, one of these lenses had a clear inset to illuminate the
registration plate. If you replace the lamp, you may need to add
a seperate light for the plate.
>The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers.
>I wonder if they stopped in 1960?
Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle
control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're
impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those
on the Series I.
>In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's
>interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine
>block?
Sorry, the Series II pump has a different casting, although (as I think
Dixon also said), they do take the same rebuild kit. The Series IIA front
engine cover puts the water pump higher, which will hit the Series II
cylinder head, so you can't change front covers ( to get the later water
pump) unless you also change to a IIA head.
>I must get away frome this terminal and go back out side...
>David S.
***
BAck in September, you asked about details on Rochester carbs. Did you
get much response; I'm curious what you found out. I've used them for years
on several Rovers. They're the best carb I found--run well, easily re-jetted,
and simple. When I could buy them new, the part no. was Delco short number
21-300. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to mean much to rebuilders. I
don't think the tag on my carb is right, I had to trade the bowl for the
right one. I do know the right one has: cable choke, smallest venturi, and
smallest throttle body for a single barrel model. If you want, I can take
the top off and send you the part no.'s that are stamped on the air horn and
the float chamber body. I don't think there is a # on the throttle body.
Use a #48 jet around sea level. They usually come with a #52, which is too
rich.
Regards,
Randy Rose
Pasadena, California
(818)395-3840
rsrose@iago.caltech.edu
California Institute of Technology
Message No 55
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 03:41:09 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 9:31:03 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <m0omanL-000IMPC@pension.provo.ut.us>; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Oct 11, 93 9:53 pm
Definitely.I havent got them,and they are well at the top of my
"improvement"list.(The other list is "replacement",which takes
precedence).I ran for a short while without the front prop shaft
because a U.J had gone noisy,and the difference was beyond
belief.Ran much more smoothly,fuel consumption imroved etc.
When you consider I was still,even then,pushing the front diff
round,it speaks for itself.Tyre wear is also said to be reduced
as well.Go for it.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 56
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 08:56:03 1993
Return-Path: <moore@fsl.noaa.gov>
From: Mark Moore <moore@fsl.noaa.gov>
Subject: Air vent styles
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 7:32:22 MDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
>
>>The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers.
>>I wonder if they stopped in 1960?
>
>Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle
>control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're
>impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those
>on the Series I.
>
Actually, the late Series II production dipped into 1961. The vent
controls on the '61 109 are still the screw type.
--
Mark
--0-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov
NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator
R/E/FS2
325 Broadway
Boulder, CO 80303
USA
Message No 57
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 09:00:10 1993
Return-Path: <ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 08:27:48 -0500
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: cool morning problems resolved...
cd ~/maillogs
It was a cool morning here in Missouri and Lulu was ready for her
daily drive. I complained a little at her but in the end was
pondering whose problem was it.
I was griping about having to wipe the dew from both the outside
AND INSIDE of all the windows. Don't have to do that with a
civilized car that sleeps in a garage. (Lulu can't set in the
driveway or garage for long periods cause she has this problem of
holding it in). But when I got to work and looked back, I
noticed how clean she looked and thought -- was that a design
point by Solihull? In wiping the dew from the windows, I had
also spruced up the car by wiping off a couple of weeks of road
dust... (the fact that I had left the sliders open for 3 days
didn't cloud my mind -- Japanese cars have better manners, I'd said).
And I was mumbling about the "sticky steering wheel in humid
wheather problem", too. I had to drive all the way to work
utilizing one of those red rags that seem to be standard
equipment on older land rovers (but then again, my 87 RR has
them so maybe they come from the factory). The walk from the
parking lot to the office was a bit brisk, so maybe I was at
fault for not bringing my old beat up driving gloves.
And the Temperature Control switch is so hard to open and close
that I had to pull hard to get that blast of heat from the
old Kodiak heater. But the contrast between the cool morning
air and the blast of heat did make me pause about how beautiful
a morning it was. (Would I have noticed it if the automatic
temperature control of an upscale heater had done the hard work
for me).
Oh, well -- just some ideas that went thru my head on the
way to work this morning. I think I will stick with Lulu for
awhile longer. And maybe I could make it up a little by looking
after a few of her long postponed ailments...
...oh yes, I don't have a very sophisticated mailing package
so I will try to remember to append pertinent information
manually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu.
314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 61
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:21 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: So what's new?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:59:57 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
<car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com> writes:
TeriAnn, Merseyside order is here and in the living room and across
the backyard. Now I wnt all of the goodies :-) Springs, swivel
balls, and over drive, basically engough parts to completely
rebuild an 88 and 109, or partialy rebuild a few 88's.
Giving it all up will be tough...
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 62
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:44 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:55:50 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) writes:
> What is the general consensus on freewheeling hubs on a Rover? Is it
> worth the $195US (RN) to reduce the wear and tear on the front axle, etc?
> Are there any other benefits?
IMHO, freewheeling hubs are great. However, I would locate a pair
on a dead Land Rover and use those before I shelled out US$390+ for
the hubs. They should be available used. Most Land Rovers up here
use them, in fact it is rare to see one without them.
Other benefits? A quieter ride, better gas mileage.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 63
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:26:02 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: (r)evolution
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 17:26:20 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes:
> out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can
> you check the Merseyside catalog for me??).
Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No
mention of the Series II.
Rgds,
BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions
with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals.
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 65
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 14:20:42 1993
Return-Path: <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: ski racks ?
To: Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote:
> Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ?
> In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their
> Land Rover.
>
> I called Thule's information and there was some confussion
> on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They
> said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance
> between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420
> was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380.
Dan:
I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as
though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats
around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US
company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these)
The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the
world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these
on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit
you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it.
The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles
finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor).
Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California,
95521, USA
Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive,
Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5
To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack"
with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for
the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm
not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used
these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and
worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford
these racks)
If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me...
--Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath
Message No 66
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 15:20:36 1993
Return-Path: <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: ski racks ?
To: Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote:
> Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ?
> In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their
> Land Rover.
>
> I called Thule's information and there was some confussion
> on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They
> said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance
> between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420
> was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380.
Dan:
I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as
though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats
around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US
company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these)
The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the
world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these
on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit
you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it.
The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles
finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor).
Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California,
95521, USA
Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive,
Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5
To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack"
with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for
the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm
not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used
these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and
worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford
these racks)
If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me...
--Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath
Message No 67
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 17:02:41 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:49:00 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: thanks
Dixon wrote:
>> out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can
> you check the Merseyside catalog for me??).
Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No
mention of the Series II.
Rgds,
BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions
with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals.
Thanks for checkin' on the pump-I figured the Merseyside catalogue had the
best shot of listing one (and I don't have one but probably should).
As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me
with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time
or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they
don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and
when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description.
BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer
one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80.
Thanks again,
rdushin/nigel
Message No 69
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 21:34:44 1993
Return-Path: <ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:19:33 -0500
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
(I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under
discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a
pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have
high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88
AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though:
-- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the
rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner
casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about
$70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy
hub to round out the lot...
-- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn
hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair...
They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and
"...no spares were available..."
-- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The
one with the plastic turn is not worth buying.
-- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they
said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained
the obvious, but couldn't complete the order.
So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock,
and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that
20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that
means something to me.
I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts
and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable*
premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop
the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but
I will try RN first.
Sorry, just got a little riled.
FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort.
The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail
of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize
the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or
otherwise...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu.
314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 70
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 22:48:04 1993
Return-Path: <ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 22:34:55 -0500
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
(I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under
discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a
pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have
high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88
AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though:
-- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the
rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner
casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about
$70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy
hub to round out the lot...
-- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn
hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair...
They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and
"...no spares were available..."
-- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The
one with the plastic turn is not worth buying.
-- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they
said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained
the obvious, but couldn't complete the order.
So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock,
and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that
20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that
means something to me.
I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts
and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable*
premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop
the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but
I will try RN first.
Sorry, just got a little riled.
FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort.
The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail
of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize
the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or
otherwise...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu.
314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 71
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:16:59 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: ski racks ?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:47:52 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil> writes:
> Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ?
> In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their
> Land Rover.
No rack, but considering the height of my Land Rover, I would need
a ladder to get at it. Other LR's that have good springs (the
alternative tend to be a bit common here) have the same problem.
So, you either very tall, have flat springs, or just very
energetic... :-)
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 72
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:38:47 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: thanks
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:52:36 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes:
> As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me
> with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time
> or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they
> don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and
> when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description.
> BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer
> one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80.
Well, we are still trying to identify these. Series II seems to
fit, though colour is a bit light, they have the clear plastic
insert for illuminating a license plate. They are also 3.5" in
diameter. Price, for these particular lights are 1.90 pounds for
the lenses alone, 4.90 pounds for the complete assembly. These
price are for 2.5 - 3.5 lenses. Note, they are not genuine.
However, looking at the LR's up here, they seem to have a mixture
of lenses, depending on where they were stolen from.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 73
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 02:48:40 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 23:35:33 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The
> one with the plastic turn is not worth buying.
I don't know about Missouri, but in the depths of winter plastics
just doesn't hack it when they are locked up solid. At least with
brass you can beat them, use force, or a propane torch to make
them co-operate. Plastic wouldn't last 30 seconds here. There
isn't much plastic that I would trust to last 20 years of use
either.
> -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they
> said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained
> the obvious, but couldn't complete the order.
:-) Now that the Defender is here, maybe they will change their
tune, but again, who cares. Alternative sources are available who
know what a Land Rover is.
> So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock,
> and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that
> 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that
> means something to me.
Actually the rebuild kit supplied is pretty simple. One could
make the parts without too much effort. It is the internals, gears
and such, that I am accumulating spares of. Including those on the
109, I have three sets of hubs now.
> I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts
> and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable*
> premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop
> the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but
> I will try RN first.
Don't get me wrong, RN is a good outfit. In fact when it comes to
parts suppliers in North America they are probably the best. They
generally know what they are talking about, and have experience in
rebuilding and repairing our aged beasts. However, their prices
are a bit dear. I keep UK and NA catalogues about and compare not
only price, but shipping, time, availability and the like when I
need something. Besides, 27 pounds for springs is hard to beat
over here, and who cares if they come via sea. Of course, our
problem with RN is the fact that the Canadian dollar is approaching
lira levels of value. I have to add approx. 30 cents on the dollar
to RN prices. Around here, RN's only real competition is Atlantic
British, but we shall refrain from commenting on them <ahem>.
> FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort.
> The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail
> of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize
> the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or
> otherwise...
You will enjoy less wear on your front drivetrain, less road noise,
better gas milage. An excellent purchase.
The rebuilders discount is a good idea of theirs, but the MLRS
price was 388 and when you have 900 kilogrammes of parts already on
the way, tossing in an overdrive doesn't add much to the shipping
costs. Of course, I am a poor one to comment as I have gone off
and picked up a used Fairie overdrive despite my comments here on
avoiding such, but hey, under half price who could resist... :-)
Overdrives are a good idea though. The benefits certainly justify
one, especially when one loses some of that feeling that you are
parked in the middle of an divided highway as you amble along at a
noble and dignified pace, unlike the cretins (like myself at times)
playing speed racer and doing the unposted 75mph limit on our
highways. The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is,
imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large
semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-(
Hmmm, gasoline is about 2.70 an imperial gallon here, I get some 15
miles per gallon, an overdrive will increase my top speed by about
ten mph from 45 to 55 mph. Keeping numbers simple, this represends
say a fifteen percent increase in fuel efficiency, or some 40
cents a gallon. Divide that into the cost of an overdrive and you
don't have to drive that far to justify owning one. Of course,
gasoline is cheap in the USA so milage may vary.
Rgds,
Dixon
(Whom others here would say steers his Landie like a Zeppelin
in the forest, generally going backwards too...)
Trivia: When a heavy winch cable snaps in the dark it make a
pretty yellow flash where it parts. How do I know?
Well, we snapped one Sunday evening pulling over fifty
foot cedars to make a road and gather/create posts and
rails for a fence. (Koneig winches driven off the crank
are greatm but we gotta get a tackle block. It is a
real bummer when the tree lands on top of you. Yeah, we
pull them towards us, but they are only cedars. Light and
fluffy like at the top. The larger Elm we helped/guided
down last week we had a hundred fifty feet of heavy rope
to get farther away. Word of warning here though. Make
sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb
nailed ours :-( Bummer... )
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 74
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 03:47:21 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: Zeppelins
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:54:02 CST
Priority: #1 land-rover, 2 Coopers ale.
In-Reply-To: <y65DBc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 13, 93 11:35 pm
Sorry I could'nt resist
Dixon writes
> The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is,
> imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large
> semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-(
For some real fun Imagine what its like when you're '66 109 H/top is doing
140 Kmh (85+ mph) along a single car width bitumen "highway", and you have to
pull off onto the verge to allow a Road Train (a semi with 3 tri axle
trailers) whose going warp speed to pass you.
YEE HAH, the adrenalin pumps for ages.
(Un) Fortunately this cant happen now as the R/trains are speed limited to 100k
(60 mph) but until 1992 the sky was the limit. 100 tonnes of 50metre long
road train going 160+ Kmh was something scary to get out the way of FAST!
Still I'd rather do that sort of thing in a rover than any of the jap 4x4's,
,at least the rovers tend to stay on all 4's unlike a certain Toyota 4x4's
(hilux's and 4 runners)
As an aside we still dont have an open road speed limit in the N.T. :-)
> Make sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb nailed ours :-(
Bummer... )
This sort of natural disaster could *never* happen in the Northern Territory,
we have our priorities well sorted out ;-)
Cheers
Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon
_-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed)
/ \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?"
\_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under"
v
Message No 75
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 04:08:54 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Rear Light Lenses
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 9:58:52 BST
The problem with lenses is rife here,too.A couple of years ago I backed
into a farm trailer (who the hell left *that* there)and cracked a lens.
All thee Land Rover parts dealers I rang said something like"You'll have
to bring it,so we can have a look".Seems the vareity was unending.I
eventually was given one (now that's what I call a *good* deal).It's
difficult,too,to define original in this context,because my rear lights
are labelled "Sparto",but I'd hazard a good guess they arent replacements.
Looks as though Land Rover fitted whatever they thought appropriate,and
never mind who made them!
On another tack,would those amongst us who have things like poorly water
pumps,please post in a whisper,so mine cant hear.It was all right until
yesterday,but I still spent a very wet afternoon replacing the thing.
Has anyone else noticed this tendency among Land Rovers?You park alongside
another Rover and they *talk*.Then they *both* throw the same sort of
wobbler.When I first got mine,it was parked alongside a S111 diesel on a
daily basis,for about an hour a day.It got to the stage where we were
buying two off everything,'cos if one went wrong,you could bet your boots
the other would think"what a good idea" and do the same thing a day later.
Eventually we separated them,parked at opposite ends of the yard,which
cured the problem.Apparently they cant shout.And NEVER say MOT in their
hearing.Ever.
Dixon,your mention of a block heater ste me wondering how the guy in
the OVLR copes with his diesel in winter.So far,touch wood,I havent had
staring problems taht werent electrical,but I'd be interested to know how
a diesel copes in your sort of climate.Or perhaps he just doesnt use it,
but I'm sure I remember reading about it sometime last winter.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 76
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 09:51:23 1993
Return-Path: <ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:11:50 -0500
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: strange problems with the lro list or whatever???
I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro
listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called.
I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle.
I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from
both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com.
I get frustrated and quit and then I see the append the next
day???
I guess what I am asking is for a couple of you to append
with the mail-to address of the listserv for appending. I
had a lot of trouble getting added in the first place and it
took about 3 weeks for that to happen.
And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve
the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands
from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know
doesn't work.
I just want a smooth proceedure to add a couple of lines of
insite, wit, facts, opinion, etc. to the lro-log.
Not complaining, I really enjoy the dialog, just want to join
in sometimes without thinking too much.
Message No 77
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:04:53 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:50:33 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs?
Ray,
I just checked my Mersyside Land Rover Services catalogue. They have Fairy
overdrives for 342 pounds. Thats about US$500. I USED to be a Rovers
North fan. But I received a few shipments of wrong parts, and some advice
that certain parts would fit when they wouldn't. I listened to Dixon,
and when I went to the UK, detoured to Merseyside and stopped off at
Merseyside Land Rover Services. I did the math and discovered that even
with shipping, I could get most parts for 1/2 to 2/3rds less than what
Rovers North charges. And air freight from the UK takes about as long to get
to California as does UPS ground. The only disadvantage is it takes a couple
of hours to go get the parts and clear them through customs. I was on the
Rovers North 20% rebuild programme too. Now I'm on the UK parts direct
50-60% discount programme and chuckling everytime i look at the Rovers North
price list.
inexpensive parts make my Land Rover smile from over rider to over rider :*)
TeriAnn
Message No 78
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:30:02 1993
Return-Path: <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: strange problems with the lro list or whatever???
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:11:50 CDT."
<9310141411.AA16234@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:18:31 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro
listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called.
I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle.
> I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from
> both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com.
What you are probably seeing is that there is a bounce from
some subscriber(s) of the list whom no longer exist.
The message, as you sent it is sent to everyone (though it seems
to take a while to get back to you), and you get a bounce back
from one of these 'bad' addresses (which I make an effort to
clean up occasionally.
If your bounce notifcation is From: Postmaster@*.stratus.com, then
I would be interested in seeing the headers and mail.
However if it is not From: *.stratus.com, but from some other
place, send it on its way to the bit-bucket.
Thanks,
-- Bill
> And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve
> the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands
> from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know
> doesn't work.
At the present we don't have an archiver, or list server
(though I'm trying to get Majordomo up to be a list server,
but I need to pester my SysAdmin...)
-- Bill
Message No 79
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 13:44:19 1993
Return-Path: <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:27:45 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Ok, (weird) question number 1:
Ok, for many moons now I've been debating with my self over whether
I should get a soft top, or a roof rack for my IIa 88"
Logically, the roof rack is what I want (for travelling, for
transporting, for a mobile platform to set my tri-pod on and take
photographs from...)
Knowing that I'm going with a roof rack, is there any way I can still
have a soft-top ?
Now, this seems like an entirely nutty question, but what I'm
thinking of is the '93 US Defender 110" with the external roll cage...
IFF I could put on a soft top, and work a roll cage into the truck,
I could put the roof rack (length of the bed) on that...
Has anyone see anything like this before ?
Is it entirely crazy ? (does that matter ?) Is there anything
seriously deficient with this idea ?
(I've got a good friend who does (AWESOME) custom race car roll cages
for fun and profit, he hates the ordinary, but is intrigued by
the extra ordinary...)
Ok, question #2:
I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal).
However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to
put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the
door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard
location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner.
Is this correct ?
Comments on what else to look for in a rebuild #3:
Ok, after lusting over newer Rovers, I figured that for the amount
I'd pay in road tax for the first couple years, that same money
would go a long way toward making my 88" a _great_ vehicle, and
save me from making further donations to the state, or interest
payments to the bank...
So I've got a '69 IIa 88" with (supposedly) 60,000 original miles
I'm at the point where I want to fix more of my rover before I
drive it more. So next year I figure I'll be pulling the body
parts off and doing the following:
chassis and mechanicals:
- re-tempering the springs *
- bead blast & re-finish what is left of the frame
+ lots of mounts and things
- replace the other brake lines
- new wiring *
- engine
+ hardened valves ? other head stuff ?
+ seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it
- transmission / transfer case
+ do seals*, check gears
+ add overdrive
+ serious brake work * (time for drums I think)
+ front shaft u-joints *
+ shocks/dampers *
+ exhaust heat sheild *
body:
+ new foot boxes *
+ install mud sheilds * (they finished rotting off just about
when the foot boxes rotted through)
+ significant welding on the firewall
- strip & paint the body panels
+ window channel *, door seals *, etc.
- front window-washer (something that hasn't worked since
I've owned it)
all the '*' items are definite need-to-replace type items.
I know you haven't seen my IIa, but perhaps those of you with
similar experiences might suggest things I've overlooked ?
[ I'm half tempted to drive over to AB and let them look it over
for further suggestions, but I'm not likely to buy parts there.]
The only mod's this Rover has from a stripped station wagon is that
it has Warn locking hubs. In the last couple thousand miles I've
fitted a Delco Altenator, a used rear diff, a water-pump, wheel
bearings, fuel pump diaphram, and most track rod ends, etc.
Previous owners did a not-so-good job of alligning spring perches
when they welded them on the frame, and I've replaced the two front
out-riggers.
For you folks who import from the U.K. to the U.S., can you have an
idea of what the custom's duty is ? and Merryside's address
(do they have a catalog or price list ?)
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
| +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
Message No 80
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 15:31:07 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:12:51 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
Bill,
I assume you have a "Genuine Rover" rear tire carrier. It is designed to
fit between the sheet metal (steel) ribs in the door and there is only one
place that it fits... too low! It was made to use with the pintle hitch, but
the tire hits a ball hitch. You can move it up but it requires moving one
of the ribs. This is not difficult if you have some welding equipment and
can weld the thin gage stuff. Another reason to move it up is the fact that
the tire has been known to get pushed into the rear window when going down
a steep embankment.
When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing
that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide.
I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5"
above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch.
Regards, Bill G.
> Ok, question #2:
>
> I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal).
> However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to
> put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the
> door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard
> location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner.
>
> Is this correct ?
>
>
> --bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
>
> N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase
> | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88"
> OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net
>
>
Message No 82
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:33:31 1993
Return-Path: <phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com>
From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester)
Subject: Polling all tires
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:27:08 CDT
Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
This is bound to unleash a flurry of controversy. I wanted
to poll everyone on what type of tires they are running and
why. The stock tire called for is a 205R15 which is not
available today. I believe the older tires translate to
just over an 80 series profile.
The only bum steer I have ever received from Rover's North
was concerning this question. Lanny told me that the stock
rims were "pretty wide" and to shod (maybe he said shoot) it
with 30x950R15. He even suggested some of the newer
B.F.Goodrich 33x950R15 that are now being made. After doing
my own research, I found out that the stock rim is only 6"
wide and that the tires Laney suggested require a 7.5" to 8"
rim (one has to wonder if this means they are running
Rovers with tires that are accidents waiting to happen).
Besides, who wants a monster truck that bounces up and down
all the time. I thought I had always read that Rovers did
better with the narrower tires anyway (narrow tire
advocates, step in here. Wide tire advocates, you too. It
seems to me that there are times where one or the other
works best, but that narrower work best on just about
everything except maybe mud and certain types of snow and
improve gas mileage along the way to boot). I was impressed
with the CR rating of the Dunlop Radial Rover (not just the
name, but it's a nice perk). They also rated it as the
quietest tire in the all-terrain class.
Being concerned about an accurate speedometer & odometer, I
decided to try the 215/75R15 because its profile was the
closest to the original (the wider a tire the greater its
diameter - therefore a 215 tire is taller than a 205).
While these made the Rover handle and respond like a Mini-
Cooper (o.k....almost) I wanted a higher profile tire
regardless of speedometer accuracy...I mean, aside from the
ground clearance issue, I paid $700 for an overdrive, I want
to get my money's worth out of it. Upon closer examination,
I also discovered that these are P-metric, passenger car
tires with 4-ply not 6-ply belting as in an LT tire - which
I had assumed they were (apparently most manufacturers LT's
start with 235 size and go up - one or two do make LT215's).
Also no one makes LT 85 series tires in 15 like they do for
16 inch tires.
It helps to buy tires somewhere they have a thirty-day
guarantee, the 215's were replaced with LT235/75R15's and I
could not be happier. They're taller, track extremely well,
are quiet, I don't bounce all over the road and they have a
good tread design for off-road use. When I started out on
this venture I was considering going with 16" rims but they
are basically not available used and new is out of my price
range right now. Even used Range Rover cast alloys are
prohibitively expensive when they can be found. Anyway, the
height differential for the same type of tire in 16 inch is
only one inch (which only translates into a half-inch
vehicle height difference). The advantage, however, to 16
inch rims is the availability of 85 series tires. So for
instance, a 235/85R16 tire has a diameter of 31.6" compared
with my 235/75R15's 29.6". That's a height difference of
2.6" (or 1.3" vehicle ground clearance) and revolutions per
mile work out to be 676 versus 741 or about a 10%
improvement on top end and gas mileage!
So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has
and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises
along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no
means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure
from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due
this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A
LT265/75R16's on them.
Paul 1973 88 Series III
Message No 83
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:50:03 1993
Return-Path: <phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com>
From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester)
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:41:11 CDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners)
Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
In-Reply-To: <9310142103.AA01818@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:03 pm
What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door??
They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they
do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark
of a REAL Rover.
Paul 1973 88 Series III (tire on the hood)
>
> > When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing
> > that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide.
> > I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5"
> > above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch.
>
> I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to
> the door fram near the lower hinge.
>
> The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the
> extra support the tyre could use.
>
> (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow
> me to carry a tire back there !)
>
>
--
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
* *
* Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you *
* Project Manager | understand what you think was *
* (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you *
* FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard *
* Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." *
* *
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
Message No 85
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:06:26 1993
Return-Path: <phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com>
From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester)
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:58:31 CDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners)
Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
In-Reply-To: <9310142141.AA01939@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:41 pm
>
>
> > They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they
> > do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark
> > of a REAL Rover.
>
> This is half true.
>
> > What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door??
>
> I though everyone carried *two* spares.
>
O.K., you got me there, although whats wrong with the second spare
mounted behind the front seats? I'm in need of a new rear door because
the previous owner had the tire on it and the door is bent to hell. For
all the great engineering they did on Rovers, they did some goofy stuff
for some of the smaller detail items - they must have put one of their
summer intern engineering students on the design of the rear door and
carrier.
--
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
* *
* Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you *
* Project Manager | understand what you think was *
* (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you *
* FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard *
* Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." *
* *
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
Message No 86
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:09:54 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dd@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Diesel Starting and winter
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 16:37:27 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Mike Rooth asked how I get my 68 Land Rover started in the winter. The
short answer is with great difficulty. Last winter I had starter motor
problems, one day it would turn over, the next it wouldn't. Things
that I have tried include boosting (the power drain can almost stall the
car giving the boost), adding a SMALL amount of gasoline to the diesel
fuel, block heaters, two batteries, andf the ever exciting pull start. I
say exciting because last year, I was pulled by a friend in a Jimmy (I
hope noone saw this). As we drove up the smow covered streets, I lift up
on the clutch and start sliding from side of the street. The oil in the
rear axle being frozen solid. We decided to find clear pavement, and
with a reasuring cracking noise from the rear axle and a half mile later
It had started. I should have better luck this year (rebuilt starter)
Dale (Diesel) Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 87
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:17:19 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:05:31 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
Subject: Re: Polling all tires
'64 88
7.50 x 16 michelin XC4 m&s on stock 109 (6.5" wide) rims, with tubes,
carry two spares, one bonnet, one rear door
"No hill too steep, no ditch too deep!"
Just last month at Pyramid Lake, Nevada a friend who drives a Toyota pick-
up (puke) with WIDE tires on CHROME rims got stuck trying to launch a ski
boat off the beach. Pulled him out. Pulled the boat out. (He decided to take
it to the concrete ramp). He hooked the boat up to his truck again, and got
stuck in loose sand. Pulled him out again. He said, "I've just gained a whole
new respect for your little red Rover and those skinny tires". He told me the
other day he was looking for a Rover.
R, bg
Message No 88
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:46:51 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:35:03 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to
> the door fram near the lower hinge.
>
I made a frame for the square plate of the stock tire carrier out of angle
iron. The extra supports are welded to this frame, top and bottom.
> The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the
> extra support the tyre could use.
>
I think the factory did this on later models. Just get another hinge like
the one on the bottom, make sure it's "in line" with the other two. I think
it important that the holes, where the bolts that go through the door frame
have steel tubes brazed in them. They prevent the bolts from crushing the
frame when tightened. Look at the way the factory did it and copy. Drill
5/16 hole all the way through, then on the inside only, drill to just fit the
outside diameter of the tube that you're using. Cut the tube so that about
1/16" sticks out, braze only the inside joint so you're not close to the
aluminum (alumininum, if you insist) skin and your lovly paint job. put a bolt
and nut tight through the tube while brazing so the tube is tight against the
inside of the frame on the outside. Huh? You get it. Sheesh, that looks nice
and strong now.
R, bg Spares at both ends
Message No 89
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 18:58:17 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 23:46:19 GMT
From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: warning and..
Two things-
First: complaints about weird msgs have appeared recently. I think most of
these are due (as pointed out by Bill) to "expired users". One very recent
one was my fault-a personal msg ended up on this list. (sorry folks-but
anyone else out there into "soul train"??)
Second: a word of warning to those who want a soft top (and more to whomever
wants a roof rack on his or her soft top). although it has been a long
while since I had the pleasure of having one, I do recall that soft tops,
especially seasoned soft tops, have a tendancy to rip VERY EASILY when wet.
If it is raining, and you are dry beneath the aged canvas, DO NOT touch it.
Yes, even a touch-the lightest touch, can be enough to destroy an (older)
soft top.....despite this, I still want one, but it will have to wait
until next year.
rd/nigel
Message No 90
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 02:51:23 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Polling all tires
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 01:18:48 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes:
> So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has
> and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises
> along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no
> means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure
> from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due
> this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A
> LT265/75R16's on them.
Firestone, 4 ply, bias ply tires. 16" rims, 100% profile. They
are 7.5" tires and are very tall and narrow looking. They look
magnificent, are unavailable un North America, and mine are pushing
25 years old. They are available in the UK though.
Now, these tires are very agressive and great in a swamp. On a
highway, I get the Zeppelin effect, hence my idea at getting some
more 16" rims and putting radials on them for the highway driving.
Changine tires takes little time, and for the swamp runs would
quickly do so.
What tires you should get depends on what you are going to use your
Landie for. Highway driving? Get some radials and avoid the
bias ply. To add to the controversy, I'd say get 100% profile and
get that extra height for ground clearane, top speed etc.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 91
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:15:14 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 01:16:05 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> writes:
> The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the
> extra support the tyre could use.
>
> (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow
> me to carry a tire back there !)
If you brace the rear panel where the third hinge will go.
Otherwise you will have structural problems. I have seen it done,
and looks nice, but is not that easy considering the weight of the
tire.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 92
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:15:20 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Zeppelins
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:45:02 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) writes:
> For some real fun Imagine what its like when you're '66 109 H/top is doing
> 140 Kmh (85+ mph) along a single car width bitumen "highway",
85mph in a 109? You're nuts. I can't see one doing more than
70,ph before road wander beings to get really un-nerving...
> This sort of natural disaster could *never* happen in the Northern Territory,
> we have our priorities well sorted out ;-)
You don't have any trees to worry about nailing the beer cooler...
:-)
Rgds
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 93
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:33:36 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Rear Light Lenses
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:47:57 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> Dixon,your mention of a block heater ste me wondering how the guy in
> the OVLR copes with his diesel in winter.So far,touch wood,I havent had
> staring problems taht werent electrical,but I'd be interested to know how
> a diesel copes in your sort of climate.Or perhaps he just doesnt use it,
> but I'm sure I remember reading about it sometime last winter.
The fires of hell won't make a diesel start in our winters... Dale
is known to build fires under his, using stoves and the like in
vain hopes of getting it to fire. It can be rather amusing to
watch... <grin>
*Really* big batteries help, as does 10w40 rather than 20w50.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 94
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:50:44 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: strange problems with the lro list or whatever???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:50:17 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro
> listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called.
You are probably receiving all...
> I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle.
> I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from
> both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com.
Once and a while some list members run away, leaving unattended
mailboxs that overflow and cause bounces back to the sender. (Poor
netequite I know) I am getting two at this time per message, but
when vaction is over, they will go away. Just delete t5he bounces,
unless the message states that the recipient is no longer with the
company. In that case send a note to lro-reqtest@stratus.com and
inform the list manager of the fact.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 95
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:59:53 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: warning and..
To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) (dushin russell)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 9:47:29 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310142346.AA42025@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 14, 93 11:46 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
rd/nigel says:
> I do recall that soft tops,
> especially seasoned soft tops, have a tendancy to rip VERY EASILY when wet.
> If it is raining, and you are dry beneath the aged canvas, DO NOT touch it.
> Yes, even a touch-the lightest touch, can be enough to destroy an (older)
> soft top.....
Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top); I've
regularly dragged my soft top thro' trees in the pouring rain and it's
twenty years old. Makes a heck of a scraping noise, but we stay dry.
I'd buy a hard top for snowy countries or general security reasons,
neither of which bothers me presently. You can take of the soft tops
quickly on sunny days - can't beat the feeling!
Best Regards,
Steve.
Message No 96
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 04:07:42 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:56:14 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> writes:
> Knowing that I'm going with a roof rack, is there any way I can still
> have a soft-top ?
Remove hard top, replace with soft top. Two person job and about
five minutes of effort at most.
> Now, this seems like an entirely nutty question, but what I'm
> thinking of is the '93 US Defender 110" with the external roll cage...
If the roll cage is like that of the 110 that came over
last year, the cage precludes the removal of the hardtop,
assuming that the 90 came with a hardtop. If it is a
softtop, and has a 110 style roll cage, forget putting a
hard top on.
> IFF I could put on a soft top, and work a roll cage into the truck,
> I could put the roof rack (length of the bed) on that...
How do you get the soft top over the roof rack? Holes will be
required in the soft top, complications will arise... It is
beginning to sound like work.
> Is it entirely crazy ? (does that matter ?) Is there anything
> seriously deficient with this idea ?
No, but you are looking at a lot of playing to switch between
modes. I'd pick one or the other per season and go with that.
> I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal).
> However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to
> put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the
> door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard
> location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner.
Hitch is too high, or your tires are too large. The rear tire
carrier will mount a 15" rim and tire and leave the hitch free to
tow something. Problems arise with 16" rims and 100% profile
tires.
> chassis and mechanicals:
>
> - re-tempering the springs *
Hate to say this, but it is cheaper to buy new ones from the UK.
> - bead blast & re-finish what is left of the frame
Good idea.
> + lots of mounts and things
Replace the lot. They are cheap.
> - replace the other brake lines
Good idea depending when they were last replaced. The only line
that is a pain is the one going from the junction to front left
wheel. Bending that one is no fun, so do it when the body iis off
and you are finished playing with the frame.
> - new wiring *
Usually not necessary. How bad is it?
> - engine
> + hardened valves ? other head stuff ?
> + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it
If it requires it and you will have it apart, sure. Hardened seats
are about all I see the head needing, besides a good decoking job.
Ne guides, though they should be fine. Milage seems to be low. If
you redo the rings, hone the bores while you are at it.
> - transmission / transfer case
> + do seals*, check gears
Sure, though seals and bearings are the important part. Do a
visual imspection to see if you have teeth missing. I would bet
that you don't.
> + add overdrive
:-)
> + serious brake work * (time for drums I think)
Maybe, maybe not. If you want to do brakes, get new cylinders all
round, new flexible hoses, you are replacing the lines, so do the
master cylinders whileyou are at it, get new shoes, make sure the
adjusters are free, otherwise replace...
> + front shaft u-joints *
Check and see if they are good. If so, leave them.
> + shocks/dampers *
Depends on condition...
> + exhaust heat sheild *
You don't have one? 'Twas standard... Easy to make otherwise.
> + install mud sheilds * (they finished rotting off just about
> when the foot boxes rotted through)
Really important on drivers side...
> - front window-washer (something that hasn't worked since
> I've owned it)
You have one of those? Modern wimp... <grin>
> I know you haven't seen my IIa, but perhaps those of you with
> similar experiences might suggest things I've overlooked ?
> [ I'm half tempted to drive over to AB and let them look it over
> for further suggestions, but I'm not likely to buy parts there.]
Sounds like you are going all out and undertaking the same thing
that Dave Meadows has just started here. Want to see the list of
parts as a starting point? Pretty detailed...
> For you folks who import from the U.K. to the U.S., can you have an
> idea of what the custom's duty is ? and Merryside's address
> (do they have a catalog or price list ?)
Canada = 0 duty for vehicles 25 years or older, including imported
parts for the same. All imports accrue 7% Goods & Services Tax
however. I'll look up Merseyside LRS address for you...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 97
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 05:03:45 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Tyre Poll
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 10:51:08 BST
I'm currently running my 88" on 6.00X16 Firestone Town & Country cross
(bias?) plies.Reasons?I originally ran the thing on remoulds,cross ply
remoulds that is,but they didnt last the proverbial five minutes,and these
Firestones *are* lasting well.My needs from a tyre are mostly on road,but
I dont want to get stuck going down a muddy farm lane to get to the paddock,
ditto in a wet field with a horse box hooked on behind.So whilst I dont need
anything super aggressive road tyres are no good to me.The Firestones are
reasonably quiet on road and grip well enough for my needs off it.Dixon's
comments regarding the on road behaviour apply,though,they *do* tend to
"fall down" the camber of the road,a trait I call "terrain following",but
it's predictable,and I'm used to it now.The tyres cost about sixty quid each.
Sooo...when a change is due,I'll go for 205 16 "Tracker" radial remoulds at
half the price.A friend has them on her 88" S111,and they are wearing well,
and she reports a better ride as well.Since she has the same reqiurements
as me,seems like the way to go.I cant go to 7.50 because I have gates at
home with a cross beam on top,which the vehicle clears by about two inches
and much height increase would foul the loading gauge with expensive results.
The Trackers *are* taller,but I've checked,and I would still have clearance.
I did,at one time,have an army style "bar grip" tyre fitted on the front,and
I must admit that it gripped like hell off road.This was a cross ply tyre
with staggered bars across it,used to be called NATO Standard but isnt any
more.It made a lovely slapping whining noise on the road,but wore rapidly.
All of which is probably a fat lot of help to you lot in the States,but
you *did* ask!
Hey,Bill,you can afford a *spare*?What iit is to be rich:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 98
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 05:12:33 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:02:54 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310141827.AA29569@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 2:27 pm
Bill,
Couple of things.Replace the engine block core plugs while you're
at it,but be careful not to damage the seatings!They only cost
pence,but can ruin your day if they go.I've got one weeping at
present,so tend to be a bit neurotic about them.
On brake lines,its worth considering copper ones.Mine are copper
(they were on when I bought it)but they are sold over here,can look
up the firm if you're interested.
Just a thought
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 101
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 07:53:36 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: warning and..
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 13:43:13 BST
Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310151036.AA27642@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 15, 93 11:36 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
>
> Hey Steve,
> *What*sunny days?You get*sun* in Bristol?Pull the other one.
> Cheers
> Mike
Look, my 'ansum, Brizzl be the gateway to the Zunny Wezzt Kuntreee!
BTW 205R16's are pretty much the same rolling radius as 650's. Aspect
ratios are 70% for the radial and 100% for the xply tho', so the 650's
_look_ a lot skinnier. I've heard good reports of the Trackers.
Cheers,
Steve.
Message No 102
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 08:48:02 1993
Return-Path: <moore@fsl.noaa.gov>
From: Mark Moore <moore@fsl.noaa.gov>
Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? (fwd)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 7:34:18 MDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
> - engine
> + hardened valves ? other head stuff ?
and hardened valved seats for use with unleaded petrol. A must.
Also, you might consider boosting compression (and HP :-) by
shaving a little off the head, also. This might require shorter
tapets.
> + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it
new bore on the engine, new pistons.
--
Mark
--0-
--------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov
NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator
R/E/FS2
325 Broadway
Boulder, CO 80303
USA
Message No 107
From root Tue Oct 19 13:38:42 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: exhaust thread sizes
To: dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil (Dan Chayes)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 19:37:53 BST
Cc: lro@stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <199310191652.MAA01433@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Dan Chayes" at Oct 19, 93 12:52 (noon)
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
Daniel asks:
> Does anybody know what size the threads are for the studs for the
> exhaust manifold to exhaust pipe connection? This is on a 2.25L Petrol
> series III, '74.
Yes, they are 5/16UNF ie 24TPI, same as on the V8.
> There are three holes on the exhaust manifold, two are
> blind, and the other is accessable from both sides. The problem is
> the previous owner installed the exhaust pipe with bolts.
I had this problem too on both my exhaust manifolds. Some cleaned up
OK, a couple required helicoils. Not expensive.
--
Best Regards,
Steve.
Message No 108
From root Tue Oct 19 15:51:04 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Exhaust manifold studs/bolts
To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 15:43:34 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310192026.AA24051@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Oct 19, 93 04:26:54 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1088
Status: RO
> We took an Oxy-acetylene torch to mine....
I am requesting some group feedback on this: I have on my
desk a brochure for "little torch" from Smith. It attaches
to normal oxygen and acetylene regulators. There are 5 tips --
the smallest producing a 6500 degree flame 1/8 inch long. They
show it soldering printed circuit boards.
The smallest tip is saphire -- only 0.003 inches in diameter.
My desire is to get one of these for welding aluminum 0.050 inch
thick which is what LR fenders, doors, etc are made of. I want
to weld up some cracks and weld in some new patch pieces. It
is my understanding:
-- there is a special flux for gas welding aluminum.
-- there are special blue goggles for gas welding aluminum
-- you can gas weld aluminum if you can control the heat.
I am in a welding class now utilizing TIG, but that class ends
in 2 weeks and I won't have access to the $4000 rigs.
Thoughts as to whether I should buy it. Oh, the list price is
$119.60, but there is an outfit in New Mexico that will sell
it to me for $75.22 I already have the tanks and regulators.
Message No 109
From root Mon Oct 18 22:25:07 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 18:07:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> I'd venture to suggest that it is the extreme cold that you operate in
> that causes the trouble,rather than the copper per se.
Could be. With the exception of the Land Rover, other lbc's sit in
storage all winter. I guess the extreme colds and vibration
together cause the problems.
> the great bugbear,augmented by the salted gravel kindly supplied at the
> taxpayer's expense to keep the garage trade in business fitting new
> brake lines.
You wouldn't believe the tons of salt dumped on our roads, the
damage to the vehicles, the roads themselves and environment. In
the cities they rarely use gravel or very much sand as it would
clog the sewer system. A couple years ago, someone worked out that
if they dumped all of the winter salt in one shot in the city of
Westmount (a city surrounded by Montreal), you could cover every
bit of road surface to a depth of four inches.
On a brighter side, the annual OVLR frame oiler takes place this
coming Saturday. We can spray on as much goop at $5 per can as we
wish. It is said that the sign of a good job is that it continues
to drip in February.
Rgds,
Dixon
(The 109 with a new galvanised rear crossmenber to replace the one
destroyed by the salt)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 110
From root Tue Oct 19 15:49:01 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: soft tops
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Oct 93 21:01:59 GMT."
<9310152101.AA85233@y1.sdsc.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 16:48:51 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> soft tops ... with a simple upward push on a wet ceiling
If memory serves me, pushing up on the inside of a canvas tent while it
was raining would insite it to leak in that area (not break, but leak),
now this might have more applied to places where water pooled. My guess that
the canvas in a Rover Top is a bit heavier then tent canvas -- does this
principle still apply ?
-- Bill
Obviously, if the Rover were moving water most likely would not have an
opportunity to form pools on the top.
Message No 111
From root Fri Oct 15 15:35:04 1993
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: LR parts
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 15:38:10 CDT
In-Reply-To: <9310152014.AA13169@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 15, 93 3:14 pm
Status: RO
> if you mean the ring that goes around the bulb that has 3 springs
> and some adjusting screws, I can likely get it to you. If you
> mean the chrome outer trim, I probably can too. I can't remember
> exactly how it fits together, but I can look. FYI, my parts have
> been disassembled, bead-blasted, cadium-plated and are awaiting
> re-installation. So it might be difficult to provide an assembly,
> but a specific part or two I could probably locate.
Hmmm. I had understood (I thought) that you had one working LR and another
in parts for spares. Are you saying that you have reconditioned *all* the
*spares* as above (bead blasted, cad plated, etc)?
I certainly don't mean to filch any spare that has has such effort and
expense put into it - my thought was that if you had four of the stainless
steel lamp retaining rings (which hold the lamp into the bucket by three
screws), and felt that you could get by with two and a spare, then I
desparately need a second one for my only LR (to hold the right headlamp in -
the bucket and such is present and intact at this end, I'm just missing the
retaining ring, and the generic replacements available everywhere don't work
- the mounting tabs are in the wrong place).
Here's the situation. I have a pretty much complete 1969 Land Rover. There
are zero (so far) used Land Rover parts available in St. Louis. I don't
want to pay $17 for a new one piece stainless steel headlamp retaining ring.
Especially when used is just fine. Though my LR is mostly complete, it is
missing several fiddly bits - one headlamp retaining ring, exhaust manifold
heat shield and bolts, one rear window latch, both rear view mirrors, the u bolt
and ring and nuts for the rear door spare tire carrier, one front seat bottom
cushion. None are major mechanical (unlike the trashed rear differential I
am performing surgery on), just fiddly annoying things. My hope is that these
are bits that most people won't *ever* find a use for (if they have one already,
the use of a second is problematical). If that is the case with you, great,
I'd be interested in buying your spares for direct (non spare) use on my LR.
If not, or if you simply like to have a complete range of spares (which *I*
would certainly like to have), fine too.
> A logistics nightmare, you say? If it weren't for the explosion
> diagrams and fairly detailed descriptions in the LR parts
> manual it would be IMPOSSIBLE.
Sounds (truly) like fun. I'm in the process of retrieving my 60gal compressor
and setting up a bead blast cabinet in my basment/garage in order to do the
job right as I rebuild my LR. I've never been happy with putting rusty parts
back on. If I'm going to go to all the effort to remove it, I might as well
clean and paint it. I've actually thought of cad plating some bits, but I
haven't looked into it yet. What did you find when you checked it out? Is
is done by any plating shop, or is cad plating a specialty? General price
range for typical cad plating jobs?
Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Message No 114
From root Mon Oct 18 13:21:26 1993
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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:05:38 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: sun and rot
Status: RO
>Sorry about the wording, sounds rude, wasn't meant to be. I get
annoyed with soft top criticism/scaremongering......
no offense taken, an dno scaremongering implied. this was all inspired
by someone's (?) desire to put a ski rack on a soft top......just not
sure I'd want a ski rack on mine (if I ever get around to getting one
again.....)
>In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops,
no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics.
While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight,
bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong
sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather.
Good point, Mike-no wonder Steve hasn't punctured his old ragtop yet!
(Ours was parked in direct sun most of its life.)
>I'll ask the obvious, why doesn't anyone offer a vinyl top?
I know its not in keeping with it's heritage.
I think you hit it right on the money. Vinyl??
What's that??,
rd/nigel
Message No 115
From root Mon Oct 18 10:28:20 1993
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From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester)
Subject: Re: TopRot
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:34:34 CDT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners)
Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com
In-Reply-To: <9310181345.AA07264@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 18, 93 2:45 pm
Status: RO
I'll ask the obvious, why doesn't anyone offer a vinyl top?
I know its not in keeping with it's heritage. Is it a cost issue?
I don't see how they could be any more expensive over here than what the
canvas ones sell for.
Paul
> In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops,
> no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics.
> While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight,
> bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong
> sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather.Hence the
> goodly number of Rovers over here with scruffy,but original soft tops
> with all their original "integrity".
> Also likely to be a problem is if canvas is folded up wet,and left like
> that in a fairly warm humid climate.It goes mouldy,and rots quickly.
> I beleive the sailing navies knew a fair bit about *that* problem when
> on tropical stations,and ensured that their spare siuts of sails were
> regularly removed from the sail lockers to air.
> Isn't the bottom line if you look after it,it will look after you?
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth
>
>
>
--
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
* *
* Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you *
* Project Manager | understand what you think was *
* (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you *
* FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard *
* Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." *
* *
*********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
Message No 116
From root Mon Oct 18 08:45:20 1993
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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: TopRot
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 14:45:32 BST
Status: RO
In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops,
no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics.
While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight,
bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong
sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather.Hence the
goodly number of Rovers over here with scruffy,but original soft tops
with all their original "integrity".
Also likely to be a problem is if canvas is folded up wet,and left like
that in a fairly warm humid climate.It goes mouldy,and rots quickly.
I beleive the sailing navies knew a fair bit about *that* problem when
on tropical stations,and ensured that their spare siuts of sails were
regularly removed from the sail lockers to air.
Isn't the bottom line if you look after it,it will look after you?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 117
From root Mon Oct 18 08:12:37 1993
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From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 08:10:11 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: private e-mail posted for all
Status: RO
A fellow LR owner and I were in private e-mail dialog. I
thought I would share one of the notes with the LRO gouup.
Private dialogs are ok, I guess, for some things, but if
they continue on into depth, they should be shared with the
group:
I don't have a sophisticated mailer, so I can't interpose my answers
with your questions, so I will just ramble for awhile.
Yes, I do have 4 of the trim rings and need only 2. I could get one
to you and that would still leave me one for spare.
------------ some ramblings follow ------
It has been my experience that the parts I sell I eventually want
back. I think it is because the common ones are the ones that
fail and need replacement. I sold 2 doors, for example and then
I needed 2 and bought them for more money. Ditto on door tops.
I do like the idea of having a nearly complete spare car stashed
in the basement. It is very handy. When repairing my daily driver,
I can take parts off and put them into the refurbishing bin and
put already-refirbished ones right on -- feels good. Usually you
have to wait for the RN order anyway cause of seals, gaskets, whatever,
but it is still a good method. Then you take the parts and
refirbish them at random with the next batch.
The parts you have missing, I cant help you with. The exhaust
manifold heat shield -- I am trying to get 2 myself at this very
instance. The ubolt, ring and nuts for the rear door
I have one set for my rebuilder, but the other car was has the
ubolt bent beyond repair -- I don't have enough nuts as is cause
some were frozen to studs, one car I bought didn't have a rear
axle, etc. All of my mirrors were trash and I have ordered one
set of new boomerang mirrors but not gotten around to installing yet.
I sold my front seats already. So, it is not clear I can help
you with the parts you mentioned.
I do have 3 people -- I will try to get their names/numbers to
you -- that I have been successful at buying used parts from.
And part of the problem is finding the parts. I know in my head
there is something in one of those boxes, but it takes time to
organize them and I have made several false starts.
With respect to cad plating: It is a three step process. First
an alkine bath to remove grease -- this *might* remove some paint,
but it is not guaranteed. Then an acid bath -- this removes the rust.
finally the plating. I bead blast my parts to remove the paint --
it also gets rid of the rust. Before I blast, I use kerosene
to get rid of the grease. The parts are clean and nice, but
they get surface rust easily (no problem, the acid takes that off
in about 3 seconds).
There are two processes -- a hang tank and a tumbler.
1 The tumbler is like a front-loading washer. All the small parts
that can tumble without clobering eachother goes here. I
fill up one of those plastic boxes with the hinge lids with
hundreds of parts and it costs me $35. If you keep it under
70 lb, you can send it ups and they will return it ups about
3 weeks later or so. I use a place in KCMO. So, the total cost
is about $50, but in those 3 weeks and the multi-weeks that it
takes to blast and fill the box, you REALLY FORGET where the
parts go and how they go together.
2 The hang-tank is for bigger parts. They hang each part from
a wire and it gets plated. I have plated a lot of big parts
this way. The price varies -- I use a big plastic box here too
and a full one (70 pounds, remember) usually costs $35-$50.
I also have a galvanizing place 50 miles from here and have been
successful with about 3 batches -- 1 frame, 2 bulkheads all the
galvanized outer trim from 2 cars, and some things I have welded
up. I am trying to finalize another batch now. I collect what
surely is a *minimum* order for them and drive it over. They do
it while I wait as a favor I am sure. They charge $0.30 per pound
so the batch with the frame and bulkhead came in at $75 or so, but
most are around $40.
This is all a lot of fun and I wish I could do it full time but
other things come into play. I have dedicated my 2 car garage
to this and it shows! One thing to warn you, a bead blast
cabinet generates lots of dust even if the door is closed, sealed
and the vacuum is going. Make sure you can close off the area
and be willing to accept some dust landing on shelves, parts, etc.
I also paint and do bodywork in my garage and the three are a
wicked combination.
5:00 on friday -- we can chat some more later.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu.
314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Message No 118
From root Mon Oct 18 04:43:13 1993
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From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: soft tops
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) (dushin russell)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:45:08 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310152101.AA85233@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 15, 93 9:01 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
rdushin/nigel say:
>Steve wrote:
> >Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top).
Sorry about the wording, sounds rude, wasn't meant to be. I get
annoyed with soft top criticism/scaremongering......
> don't push up on a wet roof.. If.........
> you wanna find out for yourself, then next time you are beneath your
> saturated soft top, just push up.
> ......but I don't advise this......
Just did today - remind me; just what was supposed to happen???????
> ......and I still want one......I especially like to drive with the
> rear and sides rolled up.
Get one mate, safe as houses!
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Best Regards,
Steve.
Dr Steve Methley ***** *****
HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk
direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924
switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Message No 119
From root Mon Oct 18 03:33:58 1993
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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 9:35:01 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <LDyHBc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 16, 93 12:59 am
Status: RO
Fair enough,speak as you find,but suffice it to say that my copper
lines were far from new when I bought the thing,I've had it seven
years,it's in daily use,and I've had NO trouble to date.I'd venture
to suggest that it is the extreme cold that you operate in that
causes the trouble,rather than the copper per se.We have the same
problems on the "cold" side of our big air con plant,the copper pipes
harden with the low temperature,fracture and leak.I still think that
in "temperate" climates,copper is superior to steel,since rust is
the great bugbear,augmented by the salted gravel kindly supplied at the
taxpayer's expense to keep the garage trade in business fitting new
brake lines.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 120
From root Sat Oct 16 02:26:48 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 00:59:20 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:
> On brake lines,its worth considering copper ones.Mine are copper
> (they were on when I bought it)but they are sold over here,can look
> up the firm if you're interested.
No! Copper lines have been tried by people over here. They can
not take the vibration. Of all of the copper lines people have
installed, the failure rate is approaching 50% or the lines within
a year. I have heard of no problems on other lbc's, but on Land
Rovers they just don't hack it. Those that have gone copper are
going back to steel on Land Rovers.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 121
From root Fri Oct 15 17:41:58 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 17:40:21 -0400
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Tires
Status: RO
On my way back from Central America in early 1971 in my 1957 107 SW, I came
up the Caribbean coast after trekking through the jungle roads (which are
probably paved now) of Guatemala to Tikal, then to British Honduras, now
Belize. There is still Guatemalan mud on my firewall. The roads in Belize
are another story, one for a thread on springs, but this is about tires. I
spent a night camping on the beach in Tampico, Mexico. The beach was open
for anyone to drive onto, and was a mixture of areas of firm, hardpacked
sand and very soft, deep, dry sand. When I drove down the beach to get
away from the houses and the hotel, I was flagged down by the owner of a
1954 Chevy who had gotten mired in a soft sand area. It didn't take much,
even with my strange assortment of tires, to pull him out and back to firm
sand. The next morning, on my way back to the entrance to entrance to the
beach near the hotel, I was flagged down by three gun toting Mexican
soldiers standing near a Jeep. It seems that they had also gotten stuck in
the deep sand, and had burned out their clutch trying to get out. I was
drafted to push them out. The jeep had a side mounted spare tire that stuck
out in the back, so I just nuzzled up to it with my front bumper and pushed
them out of the sand. They expected me to push them all the way into the
city of Tampico. I pushed them as far as the gatehouse to the refinery
there (about a half mile) and told them to call a tow truck. But those 3
retread snow tires and one military/tractor lug tire had no trouble in the
soft sand, even when pushing the disabled jeep.
<---------------------------------------------------------->
| Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu |
| Information Resources |
| Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 |
| Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 |
| 14853-2601 |
<---------------------------------------------------------->
Message No 122
From root Fri Oct 15 16:09:05 1993
Return-Path: <u10122@sdsc.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 21:01:59 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: soft tops
Status: RO
Steve wrote:
>Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top).
Not presently, but I have in the past. I have seen two soft tops rip
with very little effort-both were done with a simple upward push on a
wet ceiling. I will grant you, the roof was (in both cases) old and
well seasoned, and was probably ready for replacement. I think that
the roofs probably ripped so easily because a) of their age, b) they
were wet, and c) (most importantly) they were subjected to pressure
(upwards, driven by a kid's-sized index finger) in an "abnormal"
direction. I do not mean to imply that softtops are generally fragile
(I too have been impressed with their ruggedness) but they should not
be subjected to abuse. Brushed contact with a tree does not consitute
abuse.......direct contact with a blunt instrument (even a kid's finger)
does. It was just a word of warning-don't push up on a wet roof. If
you wanna find out for yourself, then next time you are beneath your
saturated soft top, just push up.
......but I don't advise this......
......and I still want one......I especially like to drive with the
rear and sides rolled up.
Rgds,
rdushin/nigel
Message No 123
From root Fri Oct 15 22:08:24 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 16:51:44 -0400
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: Polling all tires
Status: RO
As some of you may remember, it has been too long since my Land Rover (1957
Series I 107 station wagon) has been on the road. It is still in kit form
(with a beautifully rebuilt frame) waiting for more cash.
As for the tires: When I bought the machine in 1970, I treated it to a set
of 7.50x16 bias ply retread snow tires. It wasn't until around 1973 or 74
that I got a set of manuals for it and learned that it was supposed to have
7.00x16 tyres. Fat chance. One problem with the 7.50x16 snows is the
edges rubbing on the frame rails when trying to turn to the steering lock
position.
Those tires got me through the record snow-fall winter (1970/71) in the
hills of Vermont where I was working in a restaurant until 1:30 a.m. and
lived on a mountain road which was plowed each afternoon (by bulldozer) at
4:00 whether it needed it or not. I frequently provided taxi service all
over the Sugarbush valley area in the wee hours of the morning.
The following winter those same tires carried me from Maine to Central
America (and 3 of them even made it back). I hit one of the 'silent
policemen' coming into some Mexican town at about 45 mph. There were two
types of these traffic control devices. The most common was a typical
speed bump. This one was a less common speed ditch - about 6 to 9 inches
deep and a foot or so wide. Very hard to see in certain light conditions.
Anyway my left front tire developed an aneurism on the inside sidewall.
Every revolution of the tire produced a disconcerting thump as the bubble
hit the frame. The main problem here was that the bubble didn't develop
right away. It wasn't a problem until I had gotten back onto the highway
and the tire heated up. I found a place where I could get well off the
road and swapped it for my (only) spare: the 7.50R16 Michelin highway tire
that was on the hood (where it belonged) when I bought the machine. There
was no perceptible difference in handling with one radial tire up front
mixed with 3 bias snows! I mounted the wounded tire on the hood with the
bubble up front. As the tire cooled, the bubble disappeared. A couple of
days later in Guatemala, I pulled into a llantas shop and bought the only
7.50x16 tire they had. It has a tread pattern like a tractor tire with
those huge diagonal lugs, and is a Goodyear tire (hecho en Guatemala). It
didn't make any difference in handling either.
I also visited Kepaco, the Land Rover dealer in Guatemala City for 4 new
shocks and a tuneup. New 109s were about $3000 (US) and new 88s were about
$2000. There was no import duty on work vehicles in Guat. The tuneup
included a valve adjustment and a bunch of other stuff. The total bill
came to about $90. $16 was for labor - 8 hours at $2 per. The Guatemalan
quetzal had a one to one correspondence with the US dollar, and they were
interchangeable.
As an aside, later in the trip I pulled into the first roadside restaurant
I came to after crossing the border into El Salvador. There were eight
vehicles in the parking lot when I pulled in. All of them were 109 station
wagons!
Steve
<---------------------------------------------------------->
| Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu |
| Information Resources |
| Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 |
| Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 |
| 14853-2601 |
<---------------------------------------------------------->
Message No 127
From root Wed Oct 20 03:53:00 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 9:53:43 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.85.9310191326.A653-0100000@pension.provo.ut.us>; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Oct 19, 93 1:52 pm
Status: RO
Sea Foam Green.Hmmmm.Never heard of it,althought it may be one of
the new fangled colours that Land Rover rejoice in these days.
On the home market at least,there were very few colours available.
Bronze Green,a dark green,could be mistaken for British Racing Green,
if there was such a colour,a light green,which I *think* was originally
called Cockpit Green,because they painted the inside of aircraft cockpits
this colour,Sand,which is self explanatory,dark and light grey(very rare
over here),and Marine Blue,which is more or less RAF blue(well,it would
be with that name,wouldnt it?).
There is also Deep Bronze Green,which is slightly *lighter* than Bronze
Green.(Dont ask me,I didnt invent the name!)
If you were a squaddy,you woudl have the option,or not,of a tasteful matt
NATO green,called "paint,brushing,IRR,matt,gallons,one",sometimes decorated
with pretty patterns of black by way of a change.Despite the label on the tin
this confection was apparently applied with a shovel.
Clear as mud,eh?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
s
Message No 128
From root Wed Oct 20 00:11:15 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Welding Aluminum
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 19:39:21 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
In response to a query about welding aluminum
I have Welded, or perhaps more accurately soldered aluminum with an
oxy-acetelene torch. The materials that I have used that worked the best
for me were a jewelers torch, similar to the one described in a prevoius
message, Jigging compound, similar to
Moist Bastos, and a product called Lumiweld which are the aluminum rods
that require no flux. There was another method using pure aluminum rod
and Aladin Aliminum Flux but I found that the base metal melted before
the rod did. Lumiweld melts easily, is quite strong, and is easy to
use.
Steps to weld aluminum
Use a clean stainless steel brush to clean the work. It has to be really
clean and shiny.
use Jigging Putty to hold in the heat around the weld
I used the largest oriface tip of the jewlers torch.
use an acetelene rich flame
heat work, dabbing the rod into it
use stainless steel wire to float out impurities, while still heating the
work
I have a set of those blue goggles and I am not sure what they are
supposed to do.
Good Luck
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 129
From root Tue Oct 19 17:38:35 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: pipe
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 17:39:09 CDT
In-Reply-To: <9310192156.AA38990@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 19, 93 9:56 pm
Status: RO
Russell said:
> cursing alot usually (ie eventually) works for me......
Good, I'll keep it up for a while longer then. :)
What kind of music was it that the marines played for Noriega that eventually
removed him from his hidey hole? Perhaps... :)
> i have since removed the starter WITHOUT removing the pipe. it is tricky-
> only come out one way-and even trickier to get back in, but if the pipe is
> stock (and positioned correctly) it can be worked around, no problem. perhaps
> you are having trouble reaching the bolts that hold the starter in??? in
Interesting. I fiddled and wiggled that starter every which way, hoping that
there was some (still euclidean) configuration that would enable me to snake
it past the exhaust pipe, but I couldn't find any such. I know (due to the
nonstock manifold attachment) that it isn't a stock exhaust pipe, so maybe
that is my problem? In my case, it seems that the exhaust pipe is so close to
the starter that I cannot withdraw the starter wholly from the engine without
running into the pipe. Thus, I cannot twist the starter too much in any
direction. My exhaust pipe seems to drop vertically down from the outlet of
the exhaust manifold, which seems to be a fairly reasonable configuration.
Does the stock arrangement curve forwards to give more room between pipe and
starter? Perhaps another session of starter calisthenics would be
enlightening.
Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Message No 130
From root Wed Oct 20 00:07:45 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ???
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 18:28:07 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> could you comment to the lro listserv group the oiling operation -- that
> is -- what is used (diesel fuel??) and the tools. Specifically, how
> do you get the goo up inside the long frame tubes -- do you have some
> sort of long hose spray assembly. we want to do that here. thank,
As I missed last past two years events, I am not exactly sure how
this is going to be done, but on Saturday I'll post a synopsis of
the activities. Now to figure out how to get a lift out to Almonte
to collect the 109 and fix the tail pipe. I kind of backed into a
stump and bent it sideways. The increased back pressure is not
appreciated by the 2.25l... :-(
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 131
From root Tue Oct 19 17:16:03 1993
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 22:16:19 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: one last softop story
Status: RO
Bill wrote:
>If memory serves me, pushing up on the inside of a canvas tent while it
was raining would insite it to leak in that area (not break, but leak),
now this might have more applied to places where water pooled. My guess that
the canvas in a Rover Top is a bit heavier then tent canvas -- does this
principle still apply ?
In fact, on BOTH occasions when I witnessed a break (in a sun-bleached,
fully weathered, and aged soft top) it was done by one elder sibling who
was attempting to "demonstrate this very principle"......"Hey, let's see
if the drip comes though the canvas when we poke it"......didn't learn
the first time, didn't the second time either (we no longer have a softop
on this rig, unfortunately). I don't think the rover tops are a whole lot
heavier than your basic canvas tent (maybe a little more rugged)....
but none of this is in any way meant to deter you from buying one. (no
scare-mongering here) They are well worth the price, especially if you
already have the hoops and windshield attachments.
rdushin/nigel/the roach
ps spelling errors?? no spelling errors here.
Message No 133
From root Wed Oct 20 08:26:16 1993
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From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 08:20:53 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <a9XoBc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 19, 93 07:39:21 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1341
Status: RO
Great welding advice -- now a couple of additional questions:
1. I want to weld some "patch panels" of aluminum into
parts of my fenders -- like I want to cover the hinge
mount holes in the top of the front fender -- convert
a fender with a heater hole to one without, weld the
lock hole in a SIII door skin to make it a SII, etc.
If I were welding thin steel, I would utilize butt
welds, but I feel that I should use some sort of lap
weld to reduce the melt-thru. I have this set of
vise-grip pliers that put a jog into the patch metal,
I was using that last night and was not too impressed
with how it worked on *SMALL* pieces. I think it would
work better on larger pieces, but it is a slow process.
I guess my question is: did you utilize butt welds
sucessfully or lap welds -- and if lap welds, did you
use some method to jog the edge of the panel to make
it flush with the surface?.
2. If I can braze sheet steel with bronse rods, is aluminum
welding about the same difficulty, much harder, or how
tough is it to accomplish?
3. Did you accomplish this while on the car -- vertical
welds and all?
I have purchased a couple of special grinding wheels designed
for aluminum and can grind down my welds and make it look
presentable. Thanks for the advice.
Message No 134
From root Wed Oct 20 10:58:05 1993
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 08:56:27 -0700
From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
Status: RO
I don't have the names, but the light green is the Land Rover green.
They usually came in red, off white, light green, or light blue(civilian rigs).
The wheels and hard top came in off white. The interior of the station wagon
hard tops are painted to match lower body colour. Upolstry grey through '68
then black through '74 when Rover stopped exporting LRs to the US.
Galvanized trim NEVER painted.
Engine, light green. air filter hammertone gray (silver). Metal elbow
fitting air cleaner to carb & breather cap, black.
DISCLAMER - all above is a guess based upon poking around LRs for 16 years
and not a result of actual research (heaven forbid that we reduce ourselves
to actually geathering real data :*)
TeriAnn
Message No 139
From root Wed Oct 20 11:45:26 1993
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:44:35 -0700
From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, twakeman@apple.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Of course I'm NOT sure that the interior of station wagon tops were painted
the colour of the body. I have one on my 109, that like yours is white.
However, I have seen some that are painted to match that look factory (maybe
someone repainted them? Maybe they were white if a dealer put them on and
matching the body if the factory put them on. Maybe it was done differently
different years. Thats why I brought the subject up. Land Rover people
generally do not seem to worry about concourse or originality (want to see the
power assisted brakes going into my 109 that was built before LRs had power
assisted brakes), but sometimes some people would like to at least
maintain a stock appearence. I was just wondering if the group was up
to figguring out the colours of LRs to archive for future readers.
Oh by the way, when I was mentioning body colours, I forgot the light brown.
TeriAnn
Message No 142
From root Wed Oct 20 13:51:40 1993
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To: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:22:55 PDT."
<9310201622.AA10979@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 14:47:27 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
> Atlantic British sells the following colors as matches to the original NADA
> LR's
Limestone
Marine Blue
Poppy Red
Light Green
Sand
Bronze Green
Arctic White
Basically, if you read the fine print on the occasional pictures, you'll
notice that the cans of paint are brand X (which is as I recall, DuPont) and
any normal auto paint purveyor for brand X will be able to mix paint to
that specification. (I checked once, and they had the formula in the computer)
My guess is that the folks at AB have actually gone off and had larger lots
mixed, and can probably sell you another can of paint from the lot that
will match. This could be beneficial, if you run short or get sloppy putting
on the first one.
If you do go down to the local purveyor of brand X, some of them are not
quite as good as others, so be on the look out for these careless features:
They grab and 'new' open can off the shelf
-- make sure can bottem is not covered with dust
The put the color into the can before *any* paint
-- odds are even after mixing, shaking, remixing and
spraying, some good amount of what should have been your
colour is still on the bottem of the can.
And there are probably more which I have been fortunate not to
have experienced personally to-date.
Of course, if you aren't as proud, or own a military, I understand it is
quite acceptable to use normal paint brushes while applying the camoflauge
paint...
-- Bill
Message No 143
From root Wed Oct 20 15:34:34 1993
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 13:33:33 PDT
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Bill,
I wasn't trying to sell AB's paint, but only thought the color names
might be of interest. Right you are on being able to buy it anywhere, and
here are the match numbers, courtesy Rovers North. Don't blame me if you go
out and get 10 gallons and it don't match. I got some Dupont acrylic enamel
to paint my fire wall with this number and it dosn't match anything, but
that's just because the thing is so fadded and oxidized. I'm sure these are
as correct as you can get. And a lovley red it is.
Dupont Centari Ditzler Glasurit
Limestone 38505A 46251
Marine Blue 38503A 16514 ROV504
Poppy Red 38506AH ROV303
Light (Pastel) Green 38504A ROV605
Sand ACF/004 or 26291
Bronze Green 38500A 46451 LEY637
Arctic White
Regards, Bill G.
>
> Basically, if you read the fine print on the occasional pictures, you'll
> notice that the cans of paint are brand X (which is as I recall, DuPont)
> and any normal auto paint purveyor for brand X will be able to mix paint to
> that specification. (I checked once, and they had the formula in the
> computer)
>
Message No 145
From root Thu Oct 21 07:42:32 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 08:40:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: roof racks
To: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9310201930.B13942-9100000@julian.uwo.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a
non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof
rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like
everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is!
--chris
On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote:
>
> Monty.
>
> Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in
> their products (but alas not on thier payroll...) If you need more
> information contact me and I'll send you their addresses.(I just found the
> copy of their fit list I own. If interested I can send you all the info
> you need.) Expensive, perhaps. But considering you can trasnfer these
> racks from car to truck to another truck, etc, they're worth their weight
> in gold...
>
> --Jeff
>
Message No 147
From root Thu Oct 21 03:54:54 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 02:52:57 MDT
From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL )
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Rover Paint
Status: RO
I just thought I would add to the conversation with
a few comments. My 62 IIA is Limestone over Poppy Red
with the wheels Limestone also. Roof is NorthAmerican.
The colors are original for the vehicle. My 58 Series I
is, what I call British Racing Green or forest green. Top
to bottom, inside and out. The roof is the NorthAmerican.
I know the color is original because I bought the truck
from the second owner, who bought it, when it was a year old,
from the original owner. My 69 IIA is Limestone over the
Sea Mist Green, with Limestone wheels. Having been inside
and out on her recently this is the paint she came with.
One thing to remember in all of this is that many of these
vehicles came across the pond without roofs and sold with
what ever roof the owner wanted. And I would think that
the roof colors depended on what the dealer had in the store
room at the time of sale. A friend of mine sent me an original
price list and dealer brochure and I will check it to see
what is mentioned regarding colors and tops. This ad material
is dated 64. I will post what it says.
Be kind to your Rover, for it bears you.
Roy
Message No 148
From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:29 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: roof racks
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:10:28 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com> writes:
> Dixon and TeriAnn: how about that Merseyside address and number? I
> would like to check on overdrive alternatives......
Merseyside Land Rover Services
Bridge Industrial Estate
Speke Hall Road
Speke, Liverpool
L24 9HE
051-486-8636 (v)
051-486-5986 (f)
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 149
From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:20 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:04:02 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes:
> > ......................... The interior of the station wagon
> > hard tops are painted to match lower body colour.........
>
> Are you sure about that? One of mine does not have a liner --
> both the inside and outside are *limestone* off-white.
Actually I think you are right here if I remember correctly...
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 150
From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:21 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:01:12 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Teriann J. Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> I don't have the names, but the light green is the Land Rover green.
> They usually came in red, off white, light green, or light blue(civilian rigs
Don't forget dark green... :-)
> Galvanized trim NEVER painted.
On the 110's this is painted, and looking at rust stains on a pair
I saw at Stowe, I would hazard a guess that it is not galvanised.
> Engine, light green. air filter hammertone gray (silver). Metal elbow
> fitting air cleaner to carb & breather cap, black.
I know the engine is *supposed* to be light green, but have you
ever seen one in that colour that was not rebuilt?
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 152
From root Wed Oct 20 22:14:53 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: expedition roof racks
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 23:16:18 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Monty.
The few expedition roof racks which I have seen on rovers were all
basically framed with square cross section steel tubing (makes cutting and
welding easier, I presume). They were supported by a number of feet or stilts
which went down to the drip rail // seam which runs about the top of the
station wagon//hard top, I noticed that they had little tabs welded on the
bottom of the uprights, so that the rack could be bolted down. Memory
may be decieving, but the most important thing would be how many feet to
put on - so the weight is distributed about the hard-top.
Racks on the Camel Trophy Range Rover and 90" pictures seem to have 5 feet
spaced along the length and stop short of the corners.
For the ladder, it seems most designs place it on the rear panel
(to the side of th rear door, on the driver's side. My guess is it should
be secured at the top (on the rack), and it would secured on the bottem,
my suggestion would be have it secured at the same bolts as the rear bumper
handle//bumperette.
Some extras which you may wish to design in:
tabs for lamp mounting - drving front, work lamps on the corners
tabs on the rack sides to mount hardware for tools
(picks, shovels, axes, sand ladders, high lift jack)
loops on the front top corners for attaching brush wires
(run down to bull bar corners)
detents or supports on rear flooring of the rack to allow carrying
of jerry cans -- I've seen racks where they were upright
(verticle), upright (horizontal), and canted at an angle (all
mouth side up) I've also seen illustrations where they
carry them flat. Either way, wire the caps shut, and never
fill the fuel ones more than 3/4 full (leaving room for fuel
expansion when they heat up)
Jeff,
An real (expedition) rover rack, is a far cry from the double pole
Thule or Yakima rack designs...
Message No 153
From root Wed Oct 20 20:57:40 1993
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 21:49:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: racks
To: dushin russell <u10122@Sdsc.Edu>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310210050.AA94879@y1.sdsc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, dushin russell wrote:
>
> >Go for the Yakimma roof racks.
>
> they sound decent-but can you climb on top of one??? the racks i have
> seen at RN come complete with a ladder-sounds like you could even stick
> your mother-in-law on one!
Good point about climbing on one. The answer is...yeeesss.. You could. I
got the impression that the racks would be used mainly for skis and
various bits of sporting equipment, but yes you could and it would
support you, but I would consider that verging on abuse...If you want
people carryin' racks, get the RN racks. Remember though I don't think
you'll be transfering to your 1969 Super Bettle, or to your 1993 Mercades
any time soon after purchasing those RN racks! Good luck! (If you're
going to throw your mother-in-law on the Yakimma racks, I'd box her up a
bit. Less wind noise that way....)
--Jeff
Message No 154
From root Wed Oct 20 19:50:45 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 00:50:30 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: racks
Status: RO
>Go for the Yakimma roof racks.
they sound decent-but can you climb on top of one??? the racks i have
seen at RN come complete with a ladder-sounds like you could even stick
your mother-in-law on one!
on another subject......nigel's blindsider top is all "off white". My
poppy red resto rig has painted (original red, almost for sure) sides,
white top. I have also seen them (these are tropicals, or at least ones
with windows) in all white.
and Mark-sounds to me like your non-stock pipe is the problem. A stock
pipe bends slightly (towards the block, I think) to allow the starter
to come out (once detached, it comes out in a vertical orientation).
Get a new one and all your problems will fade away (might as well go
for the hangers, center pipe, and LEFT EXIT muffler as well-the right
side exit pipe is cheaper, but you are left without a place to hang it
on-RN offers a hanger that requires you drill into your frame...it is
held in with expansion bolts....but it just ain't worth it).
rdushin/da nige
Message No 156
From root Thu Oct 21 08:25:54 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 09:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: roof racks
To: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Cc: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9310210824.D10531-a100000@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote:
> Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a
> non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof
> rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like
> everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is!
>
> --chris
>
> On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote:
>
> > Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in
> > their products (but alas not on thier payroll...)
Sorry to disappoint Chris, but Yakimma is not Japanese, it is a word that
comes from a North American Indian dialect. Yakimma racks is American.
As if it matters anyway!
--Jeff
"Ok! So it's American! <---Insert any convenient country here.
I'm not holding that
against it and neither
should you!"
Message No 158
From root Thu Oct 21 12:29:10 1993
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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Green's green,so green....
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:05:40 BST
Status: RO
Just to add to the confusion,(mine,if no-one elses),there is an
advert from,I think,the mid sixties,reproduced in a book I have,
depicting S11's.The colours available *on the home market* were,
Bronze Green(dark green),Light Green(called by some enthusiasts
over here Cockpit Green,because the rumour is that Rover had some
left over from the aircraft building days,and painted the very
early S1 this colour),Sand,Light Grey,Dark Grey,and Marine Blue.
Red must have been export only,or special order.Station Wagons
were painted body colour up to the roof gutter,Limestone after
that.Externally that is.Wheels,on the "regular" model,ie not the
Station Wagon,were body colour.My '70 11A was Bronze Green when
it was born,and where the Limestone paint has chipped off the
wheels,they,too,are Bronze Green.Hardtops Limestone.
*And*my engine is light green,and hasnt been rebuilt as such,I
just had an in situ rebore about four years ago.The pistons that
came out were the original factory fitted ones.
Judging by what I've seen,grey,and sand Land Rovers are rare beasts.
There were two in this town,but one was repainted Nato Green two
years ago,and is due to be redone in Deep Bronze Green,which is a
"modern" colour,slightly *lighter* than Bronze Green.The other one
is still light grey.There is a very nice 11A Station Wagon '70 S11A
in light green,but the vast majority are either Marine Blue or Bronze
Green,with the blue having the edge,if anything.Personally I prefer
Bronze Green as being the "working" colour of old Rovers,and the *only*
colour you could get for a long time.Which is why mine is now Deep Bronze
Green,(well I didnt know the difference when I got the paint).
Bear in mind,though,all this is home market stuff.Its fascinating to find
how the export versions differed from what we had to put up with at home.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 159
From root Thu Oct 21 11:39:14 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:26:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: roof racks
To: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Cc: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9310210915.A28493-a100000@julian.uwo.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
I stand corrected... Although, I have considerable doubt you've worked around
the UAW (I won't make an assumption again ;) ) with a response like "as
if it matters." I've watched foriegn autos flipped because of there origin
and when there are only to guys doing the flipping, you take note. I also
don't argue macro econ with anyone, I just pay my taxes and hope that our
country doesn't go bankrupt, too.
--chris
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote:
>
> > Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a
> > non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof
> > rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like
> > everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is!
> >
> > --chris
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote:
> >
> > > Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in
> > > their products (but alas not on thier payroll...)
>
> Sorry to disappoint Chris, but Yakimma is not Japanese, it is a word that
> comes from a North American Indian dialect. Yakimma racks is American.
> As if it matters anyway!
>
> --Jeff
>
> "Ok! So it's American! <---Insert any convenient country here.
> I'm not holding that
> against it and neither
> should you!"
>
Message No 160
From root Thu Oct 21 11:45:36 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:36:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: roof racks
To: ROY CALDWELL <rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com>
Cc: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <9310211327.AA07303@mtnoca.helena_noc>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
These sound really interesting. My needs are a little different than
Jeff's, since I really need to be able to slide 4x8 sheets up on top, thus
need a hinged back on the rack to let the sheets "hang out the back" and
obviously for this the rack needs be quite well attatched. I'll ask my
sister, who works for REI if she knows about any clamps like that. Thanks.
--chris
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, ROY CALDWELL wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> I guess it's time to jump in here. I like you
> don't want to pay the price RN want's for their
> expedition rack. Plus I want something that
> can be removed so I can take the hardtop off.
> I have a friend that will build a rack to my specs.
> Those are like the RN rack. But I am going to
> use the Quik-Clamps to attach it to the roof.
> They fit on the rain gutter perfectly and can
> be locked so nobody can come along and just flip
> them open and run. I haven't seen these clamps
> for some time but I also haven't looked because
> I had mine. They are aluminum and have an arch
> that clears the Rover roof, depending on placement
> with about a 1/2 inch spacer. They have a hole
> on the top which is used to bolt what ever type
> of rack you want. The last time I saw them
> advertised it was in the Rec. Equip. catalog.
> You might try a store that caters to kayak people.
> I will look on my clamps and see if there is an address
> or something. Anyway that's the way I am going for
> a roof rack. Hope it helps.
>
> Roy
>
Message No 161
From root Thu Oct 21 13:46:44 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: racks
To: Bellas <bellas@gamma.tti.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310211814.AA02931@gamma.tti.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Bellas wrote:
> Any idea how much, with proper weight distributing mounts, you could feasibly
> put on a roof rack? I am currently looking at some major repairs to my pickup
> truck, but would rather put the money into the 109 restoration. If I could
> build a roof rack that would carry some lumber from time to time then I
> really don't need the truck. Seems to me though that it would need to be able
> to take perhaps 500 lbs worth for this option to work. Am I nuts or could it
> be done?
>
Well to start 500lbs is a lot of weight. It is how the weight is dealt
with the racks and then by the roof and then by the body, etc, that really
matters. I f you concentrated all the weight onto say the front right
corner of the rack, well I would be surprised to see some sort of failure
or at least damage somehwere in the system. Keep the weight even
over the towers of the rack...(Lumber is really good at distribting weight)
Just remember if you mount the rack on the gutters of the roof, that is
your first connection with the vehicle and it's herre that will have to
deal with compressional weight and lifting forces when you drive down the
road. 500lbs? Could be done...carefully.
--Jeff
ps I'd be inerested in hearing about your making a rack.
Message No 162
From root Thu Oct 21 13:42:03 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 14:35:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Paddler <paddler@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: roof racks
To: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Cc: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9310211221.A12374-b100000@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote:
> I stand corrected... Although, I have considerable doubt you've worked around
> the UAW (I won't make an assumption again ;) ) with a response like "as
> if it matters." I've watched foriegn autos flipped because of there origin
> and when there are only to guys doing the flipping, you take note. I also
> don't argue macro econ with anyone, I just pay my taxes and hope that our
> country doesn't go bankrupt, too.
>
> --chris
>
No but I do hold an IA permit so I have an idea what you're talking about!
You're macro econ policies are a good idea because those types of
arguments are really very cyclical(sp?) Please understand my response was
light hearted and not intended as a flame!!
--Jeff
Message No 163
From root Thu Oct 21 13:15:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 11:14:40 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: racks
Status: RO
Good point about climbing on one. The answer is...yeeesss.. You could. I
got the impression that the racks would be used mainly for skis and
various bits of sporting equipment, but yes you could and it would
support you, but I would consider that verging on abuse...If you want
people carryin' racks, get the RN racks.
Any idea how much, with proper weight distributing mounts, you could feasibly
put on a roof rack? I am currently looking at some major repairs to my pickup
truck, but would rather put the money into the 109 restoration. If I could
build a roof rack that would carry some lumber from time to time then I
really don't need the truck. Seems to me though that it would need to be able
to take perhaps 500 lbs worth for this option to work. Am I nuts or could it
be done?
-Pete-
Message No 165
From root Fri Oct 22 03:44:06 1993
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From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Correction
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 9:45:01 BST
Status: RO
A correction to my previous post,the advert is dated April 1958.
It says:- "Both models are now available in a range of 6 attractive
colours- bronze green,light green,fawn,dark grey,light grey and
marine blue."
Price new for a petrol 88" was 640 quid.
Makes you sick,dunnit?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 167
From root Thu Oct 21 19:09:08 1993
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To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Welding Aluminum
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 16:22:35 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Response to ccray&lulu
You can butt weld aluminum but I prefer a lap joint. I would not try to
weld vertically again. I tried it once on my old series III, the heat
warped the panel, and the welds, though solid looked terrible. This is
before I discoversd Lumiweld. I would remove the fender and weld on a
bench because it allows better control. Practice on pieces of scrap
first. You have a panel flanger. Neat.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 168
From root Thu Oct 21 17:56:57 1993
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 15:22:44 -0400
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: Frame Oiling
Status: RO
>could you comment to the lro listserv group the oiling operation -- that
>is -- what is used (diesel fuel??) and the tools.
When I was living Downeast (in the StateO'Maine, that is), I remember
hearing about an oiling party. At the time my Land Rover frame was so full
of holes that it wouldn't have held any oil, so I didn't go. What they
did, however, was to drive the vehicles onto a 45 degree ramp. They then
sprayed bar and chain oil - real sticky stuff - into and onto every place
they could reach. I think they used an air compressor and some sort of
wand. This had to be done during a dry stretch of weather, because the
next step was to drive down dirt roads to get a nice fresh coating of dust
into the fresh bar and chain oil to hold it all in place and form a skin.
I'll try to fire off a snail mail request for more detailed information on
the tools used.
<---------------------------------------------------------->
| Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu |
| Information Resources |
| Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 |
| Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 |
| 14853-2601 |
<---------------------------------------------------------->
Message No 169
From root Fri Oct 22 08:22:00 1993
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From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 08:16:00 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <cgesBc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 21, 93 04:22:35 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1619
Status: RO
I was pretty satisfied last night. I converted two SIII door
skins into SII door skins by welding a patch over the keylock
hole. I had been f**k*** with TIG on an overly complicated
$4000 rig and it was coming slowly. Last night I used a
spool gun attached to a MIG welder. Although the welds didn't
look too good, the penetration was correct and it was fast
and easy. I will grind down the welds anyway, so I am ready
to go into production mode.
-- 69 front fender lights -- converted to pre-69 model
-- fill a heater vent hole in a fender skin
-- fill two wing-mirror holes on my daily driver.
-- others...
I did have one melt thru, but I put a piece of steel strap
behind it and neatly filled it back in. The aluminum filler
wire doesn't stick to the steel. For the record, a
spool gun looks like a revolver. A spool of aluminum filler
is inside the back of the gun. The spool is about 3" in
diameter. The aluminum wire only has to be pushed about 1 foot.
A normal MIG outfit has problems pushing the thin aluminum
wire the 10 ft or so thru the hoses. The aluminum filler wire
was 4041 which is supposedly a good compromise for all types.
The argon gas and current comes from the MIG attachment.
You set the feed rate and amperage, point and click. A little
bit of weaving makes for a proper weld. I utilized lap
joints last night, but with a steel backup plate, I will attempt
butt welds next tuesday night.
I did my practicing on scrap aluminum they had at the adult education
shop, but my production welds were with pieces of birmabrite (sp?)
cut from unusable parts (never throw away old LR parts).
Message No 172
From root Fri Oct 22 10:41:29 1993
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From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 10:36:00 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310221405.AA03389@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 22, 93 03:05:56 pm
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1505
Status: RO
> You say you have filled in the keylock holes in a S111 door to make
> it into a S11 door.I have a question.What keylock holes? The only
> difference between *our* S11 & 11A doors and the S111,are the window
> "locks" inside.The keylock mechanism is in one with the door handle/
> latch assembly.There is no separate hole in the door for a lock.Is
> this yet another North American specification?
Well, I had sold 2 doors that I had from my parts car (why, I don't
know -- yes, it was to help a friend, I remember). Anyway, I
I wanted to have two to paint off the car.
(If I paint the bonnet, doors, door tops, rear door
off the car, then paint the rest of the car; then bolt on these
parts, it would be *easier* I said to myself).
So, I bought two doors and door tops from
this guy in Colorado. He *said* they were SIII doors. The only
difference -- per him -- was the keyholes near the door handle
opening and the door stay. The door stay had a strap and a
spring riding in a cavity. On the SIIa, the door stay was a rod
that had a rubber fitting that rode in a tube in the bulkhead.
Anyway, the doors were of top quality used, but I had to cut off
the door stay assembly and fabricate the older-style hinge
pin bracket. And fill in the keyholes utilizing aluminum welding
techniques. The door hinges weren't present, but you could tell
from the paint that they were square and note the oval shape of
the SIIa
Save any money, you say -- hardly -- but
I am enhancing my mechanical skills...
Message No 174
From root Fri Oct 22 12:17:55 1993
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:15:58 PDT
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
Status: RO
On holes;
> welding up the holes for wing mirrors...
LR's without wing mirrors came from the factory with a plastic plug in the
hole, at least for a while, after the top hinge with the mirror hole was
invented. Mark, look for the holes. They are through the rib that is about
in line with the grill. Suggest convex mirrors, especially on the wings, as
the field of view is small when they are far away.
On racks;
The weight limit for roof racks is for safe off-road performance. Carrying a
load of lumber on city streets is OK... to a point. Some kind of rain gutter
clamp is better than drilling holes, 'cause your gona' change your mind and
do it different next year. I can FAX or e-mail an Autocad file of a drawing of
gutter clamps that I make. They work good and are not hard to fab.
$.02
R, bg
Message No 175
From root Fri Oct 22 11:59:15 1993
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:57:15 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Wing mirrors
Status: RO
In message <9310221620.AA00284@shute.monsanto.com> Mark V Grieshaber writes:
> Any idea what would have
> been original on a 1969 88" NADA vehicle? Or would door mounted (actually
> hinge mounted, right?) have been stock? My LR did not come with any
> mirrors at all...
Mark, My first Land Rover, a 1969 88 had round wing mirrors, as does my 109.
It used to be that you could get convex wing mirrors for the Land Rover, but
they no longer seem to be available. I recently replaced my old cracked ones
with new flat ones then stuck on the convex mirror stickons. Only
problem with that is that the stickons are more convex than the originals
and you do not seed cars will until they are along side (but I do like
to see whats sitting on my flanks).
My TR3 has convex wing mirrors, and I'm planing to put a pair of bullet racing
mirrors on the BGT's wings.
Once you get used to them, the door mounted ones sem to awkward & dangerous.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine
twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they
LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS775519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 176
From root Fri Oct 22 11:57:19 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Oct 93 08:57:00 PDT."
<9310221557.AA10083@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 12:56:25 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
TeriAnn writes:
> Then welding up the holes for wing mirrors...
> I wouldn't take them off ANY of my cars!!!!! My wing mirrors allow me to
> keep an eye on the tail lights of the car in front of me AND know whats
> going on on both sides of me. You have to turn your head for those dumb
> door mirrors. Besides, wing mirrors set classic British cars off
> from the general mob.
I don't have wing mirrors, but it looks like there are a couple of holes
for them (from the factory ?), they have some sort of standard type body
plug in them.
If you don't want you're old wing mirrors, would you ship 'em my way ? :-)
--bill wpc@caloccia.net caloccia@Stratus.Com
Message No 177
From root Fri Oct 22 16:01:04 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: The rover's north discount program
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 16:53:41 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
It is always mentioned in their flyer to call Rover's North and ask
about their discount program, well, I did, and I asked a bunch of
questions.
Well, you may know that it starts at $1000, and can go up to 20%, but
basically, what happens is after you spend $X000, then you can tell them
you want to 'cash in' on the program. Depending on how many X*$1000 you
spent, they will credit your account with some percentage of what you
spent, to be more precise
Spend * Credit => Value
$1000 7% $ 70
$2000 10% $ 200
$3000 12% $ 360
$4000 15% $ 600
$5000 20% $1000
At least that is what I got over the phone. My guess is that once you ask
for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again.
-- Bill
Message No 179
From root Mon Oct 25 05:46:36 1993
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 10:50:15 GMT
Cc: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310221316.AA17794@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 22, 93 8:16 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
Status: RO
Well done on the Aluminium welding!
Could you mail or post the details of the MIG set and Al spooler?
What happened about the special goggles....
--
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Best Regards,
Steve.
Dr Steve Methley ***** *****
HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk
direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924
switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Message No 181
From root Sun Oct 24 22:51:52 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com
Subject: Re: discount
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:40:42 GMT."
<9310231540.AA96594@y1.sdsc.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 23:52:02 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
Bill wrote:
>My guess is that once you ask
> for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again.
> I am not so sure about this......I think it is a 1-shot deal. That way,
Right, What I understood is that you spend $5000, they then credit
you with $1000 to spend at your favorite Rovers North outlet, and
then, after getting your $1000 worth of parts, you could probably
sign up again and spend another $5000....
Not so much a one-shot, as a 'batch' discount program...
I mean, I've gone through what my rover needs (firewall, engine work,
suspension) and stuff that I'd like to do (paint, weather strip (all),
and generally a good does of typical rover accessories, and lots of
rubber parts that are almost as old as I am... and came up with
well over $5000 in Rover's North parts costs...
If I can save 20-30%, and still get Land Rover parts, That is almost
enough money to get a whole frame, and between my rover being held
together by POW (previous owner welding and previous owner wiring)
[One spring perch is the better part of an inch further back than
it ought to be !], doing the new frame thing seems to be a better Idea
when looking at a truck which could easily survive and be lots of fun
through its second 25 years...
Somehow, looking at the P.O.Welding, I get this queasey feeling about
slapping a Warn 9000 on the front...
Anyone else out there started with a new frame ?
I talked to my welder friend and he said $200 in tubing for the external
roll cage (ala Paris-Dakar /US Spec Defender 110"s) and the roof rack
would be (relatively) inexpensive...
- cheers,
-- Bill
Message No 182
From root Mon Oct 25 05:54:36 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: please, my hard drive suffers...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 23:49:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Seventy six messages asking how to dry out a Series III and another
asking about the echo in here... <sigh>
Oh well, Land Rover news. Today was spent starting the process of
a frame up restoration of Dave Meadows Series IIA swb. Wings,
roof, and other miscellaneous parts have come off leading to a
happy time with a sand blaster later this week. That the front
part of the roof is held on with ten nuts and bolts seems a bit
excessive. More progress later...
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 184
From root Sun Oct 24 16:10:05 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Frame Oiler
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 12:13:48 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
Some asked about the frame oiler that OVLR was to hold. Well, the
events of the day were basically such...
At 8:00 am Al Pilgrim and Roy Bailey arrived at the fields of a
former Land Rover owner. Despite advancing age, the lack of a Land
Rover that he can care for, the donor of the land insists that the
club keep coming to his place in Dunrobin (a small community west
of Ottawa) and keep active in the Land Rover community.
Roy brings an industrial compressor, Al the club trailer with an
abundance of food for breakfast and lunch. By 8:30 the first two
LAnd Rovers arrive, a later Series IIA 88", and an early Series IIA
109 pick-up replete with massive plough for the coming ice age.
Plastic sheeting covered with plywood and cardboard are laid out,
and two very large ramps are placed upon the covered ground. The
Land Rover to be bathed in a lovely solution of undercoating,
having a consistency described by aome as like baby shit as it
sticks to everything, is alternately backed up, or drive forward
onto these ramps, raising the end by some two and a half feet.
With spray attachment, a one litre can of goop, the lucky Land
Rover owner can commence to spray the undercarriage to his hearts
content. Refilling when the supply is exhausted, it will usually
take between two and three litres to cover an 88", some three to
four to do a 109. By the time you get to six litres, the stuff is
generally dripping all over the place.
As initially there were time limits, I only managed to get a litre
and three-quarters onto my 109, having to wait 'till the others
were done with theirs before I could go back and complete the task.
Of course, by this time the ground was well soaked, so
resourcefully I offered a pair of beer (quarts no less) to an
already soaked individual to address my 109 again... :-)
Generally, one sprays the stuff everywhere possible. Into the
mydrid frame holes, coating the frame, the petrol tank, springs...
Generally anything that is made of steel. The amount of salt
dropped up here, to allow poor drivers California-like driving
conditions year round, is pretty horrific. It can also take
upwards of an hour to do a proper job.
Other Land Rovers treated included a NADA 109 six cylinder station
wagon (of the type described in this month's LRO magazine where
they hint that none exist anymore, though there are three in OVLR);
an early SIIA 88" pick-up, Dale's diesel 88", a SIII 88", one
Jeep, American pick-up and an MGB. The club also gathered two new
members bringing membership locally up to 72 individuals.
Next years plans call for two lines from the compressor to speed up
the operation, and probably inviting the local Triumph and MGB
clubs along. Cost is reasonable, CDN$25 for all the oil you can
spray plus lunch and lots of coffee.
Attendence was low due to the typical unco-operative services of
Canada Post, who unlike the efficieny of the InterNet e-mail, seems
to be unable to deliver the club newsletter to an address within a
30 mile radius of their sorting station within a week and a half
period. Without said newsletter, needed guidance in how to get to
the oiling party were sorely lacking. Amazing, considering that
Canada could raise an army, send it to Manitoba from central Canada
over a rail system 50% completed and put down a rebellion in less
time than it takes to mail a letter from Ottawa to Winnipeg.
Rgds,
Dixon "of the dripping, oil sprayed 109, all ready for winter fun"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 185
From root Sun Oct 24 11:35:06 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: echo
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:35:51 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes:
> is there an echo in here???????
The two of you echoed back and forth for quite a few messages. I'd
say our St. FX friend was good for 20 plus copies, and yourself for
about ten. Methinks the mailing-list software may be acting up.
For two systems to dump the same originating message that many
times?
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 186
From root Sun Oct 24 11:48:18 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: wet wires
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:32:18 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
DAVID SPENCER <x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca> writes:
> The last owner of my LR left the vent control open on one side, and
> lots of water has made it's way to the dask panel.
>
> I would like to dry this out before putting it up for the winter.
No ideas here. I'm basically classified by some as a philistine.
I clean the inside of my 109 with a hose. I wouldn't think that a
SIII dash would suffer that much from being wet and drying out with
the help of Mr. AirDry.
Rgds,
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 187
From root Sun Oct 24 12:05:06 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: The rover's north discount program
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:27:51 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> writes:
> It is always mentioned in their flyer to call Rover's North and ask
> about their discount program, well, I did, and I asked a bunch of
> questions.
Spend US$5,000 to get the 20%!? Good god, what a prohibitive
number. Your could basically bring an average 88 up to concours
shape with such cash.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 188
From root Sat Oct 23 10:42:49 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:40:42 GMT
From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: discount
Status: RO
Bill wrote:
>My guess is that once you ask
for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again.
I am not so sure about this......I think it is a 1-shot deal. That way,
if you've spent big buck$, and plan to spend more, you're roped in (all
your new bits get 20% discount-the day you cash in-but once you cash in
it is all over......so what is the incentive for cashing in if you intend
to buy more parts in the future?? and who DOESN'T plan to buy more parts
in the future??). It would be nice, however, if this were not the case-
each time you hit $5K, you cash in and start over again.
Even so, I am not so sure this deal can compete with dixon's monthly trans-
atlantic express (from Merseyside)-(but did we ever figure out the import
duty in the US?? Other items I have got from the motherland (not auto bits)
were slapped with a hefty tax of near 17% as I recall, and I would not be
surprised if the >20yr. rule does not exist south of the canadian border).
rd/nige
Message No 189
From root Fri Oct 22 17:48:54 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 15:15:16 PDT
From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com
Subject: Racks
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Status: RO
Monty,
I understand the $ problem. If you like to do these kinds of things you can
buy the material *and* the welding equipment and do it your self for $300. If
you don't want to bother with welding and the learning curve then you could
design, buy the material and cut the parts with a hacksaw and vice, then have
someone weld it. If you look around you might find a high school or JC shop
class that would weld for cheap. Mine is made from 1/2 X 1/2 and 1/2 X 1" .062
wall, square tube that I can buy for ~ 60 cents a foot.
You can make a nice one for $100. Mine is in two halves, front and rear. I
did this because I have an "Air Camping" tent, which is a neat deal that has
its own mounts for the top of the Rover. It unfolds, a ladder drops and I sleep
up top away from the lions and tigers and bears, oh, my. When it's on the rear
half, I only have the front half of the rack on. It has spots for 4 Jerry cans
but it is about 60"X 36" so there's lots of room for stoves, food and beer,
ect...
There are several Rovers out here that have roof racks that have sockets on
the side that fit fiber glass tent poles that when installed make hoops like
on a covered wagon. Put a tarp over the hoops and you have a nice tent with a
mattress, so your away from the critters and mud. Works good.
Regards, Bill G.
PS, There is a picture of a 109 with two "Air Camping" tents on top in
"Land Rover, Work Horse of The World" if you have that book.
Message No 190
From root Mon Oct 25 12:23:37 1993
X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol
To: Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
Cc: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: rebuilt carb, part left over
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:19:03 EDT."
<199310251519.LAA18359@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:15:34 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@sw.stratus.com>
Status: RO
I can't speak for your specific Carb rebuild kit, but it is not
unusual for such kits to have a number of 'extra' parts in them.
Often over the run of manufacture of a carb, there are slight
variations made in jets and gaskets, and the same unit is used in
other vehicles with different base plates, etc.
-- bill
Message No 191
From root Mon Oct 25 10:49:10 1993
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:46:52 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: discount
Status: RO
In message <9310231540.AA96594@y1.sdsc.edu> dushin russell writes:
>
> Bill wrote:
stuff deleted
> Even so, I am not so sure this deal can compete with dixon's monthly trans-
> atlantic express (from Merseyside)-(but did we ever figure out the import
> duty in the US?? Other items I have got from the motherland (not auto bits)
> were slapped with a hefty tax of near 17% as I recall, and I would not be
> surprised if the >20yr. rule does not exist south of the canadian border).
>
> rd/nige
If I remember, car parts duty is 3.1% coming into the US. I signed up for
the Rovers North discount but have switched over to the UK direct
discount with in most cases is well over 50% off Rovers North prices after
shipping and duty.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine
twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they
LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 192
From root Mon Oct 25 10:21:21 1993
From: Dan Chayes <dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: rebuilt carb, part left over
To: lro@stratus.com
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:19:03 EDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Status: RO
Hello all in rover land -
Thanks all for the advice on the exhaust manifold exit studs.
I put heli-coils in over the weekend, reassembled and poof -
no more exhaust leak. An enough back preasure for the engine to
run better. Now I can stay in overdrive on the highway, even up
slight grades.
I also rebulit the carb, a zenith, with a rebuild kit from RN. The
question here is that I had a few parts left over, the ones that concern
me are;
the small "jet" like item,
the short spring, about a 1/2" long,
what looks like a shaft seal, or round washer about 1/4" in diamater
None of these items were installed in the carb when I disassembled it -
and I it looks like I put all the parts that belong there, from looking
at the pictures. It is possible that the carb had been assembled improperly,
that I'm misreading the pictures or I just plain screwed up. Anybody have
any similar expirences with carb rebuilds ?
In addition, the instructions for adjusting the carb are
1) screw mixture screw all the way in ( hand tight )
2) set idle to 800 with idle adjustment screw
3) adjust mixture screw for maximum rpm's
3) reset idle ot 800 with idle adjustment screw
The problem here is that changing the mixture screw ( step 3 ) does not
change the idle. Any good advice ?
On another topic, the block of my engine is limestone white and I
have a $1600 recipt for an engine rebuild by the PO in '84. I guess
O-yea the land rover in question is a 2.25l petrol '74 series III.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil
Message No 193
From root Mon Oct 25 08:57:03 1993
From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 08:51:53 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310251050.AA07602@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at Oct 25, 93 10:50:15 am
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3485
Status: RO
>
> Could you mail or post the details of the MIG set and Al spooler?
> What happened about the special goggles....
> --
My MIG welding outfit is a HOBART HANDLER 120. I bought it about
4 years ago when my son redid his chevy 4x4 truck. At the
time, I looked at the HOBART and the LINCOLN 110. I thought
they were both about the same, but in the end:
-- The Hobart dealer had exchange cylinders about 2 ft
tall for gas (I got two -- the 75/25 mix for steel and
the argon for AL). The Lincoln dealer wanted me to lease
for 20 years *large* 5ft cylinders -- a lot bigger than
I wanted.
-- The Hobart had a built-in regulator for gas -- the Lincoln
had it as an add-on
-- The Hobart had a teflon lining in the 10-ft hose -- per the
dealer, it would allow aluminum wire to be pushed thru it.
The Lincoln required an add-on kit to make this happen.
-- The Lincoln had infinite controls on both the amperage and
the wire feed. The Hobart had infinite control on the
wire feed, but 4 definite settings for current. Per the
Hobart dealer, this wasn't important for most situations.
-- The cost as I remember it was: welder-$450, cyl1 $65
cyl2 $65, fill-cyl1 $20, fill-cyl2 $20, little cart $40.
total $660. I bought it during some big tent sale.
So, over the past 4 years, I have had lots of fun welding up
steel projects. The MIG is easy to use and I weld up to 1/4
inch steel (with multiple passes). My son's friends come over
and with about 5 minutes practice, weld in patch panels and
fix holes in mufflers.
About 3 years ago, I welded a little aluminum with this
Hobart rig. At that time, the aluminum wire did indeed push
thru the 10 ft hose. My welds were strong, but They didn't
look good. And it was frustrating 'cause I didn't feel I was
in control of the process. My aluminum welds were on clean
pieces of birmabrite, lying flat on my garage floor. It was
not clear (I guess it was clear) how I could do it on the
car in a vertical position. That is why I took the adult
education course. Oh, and another thing, I bought some
pieces of scrap aluminum to practice on and that was a
real eye-opener. I knew I needed more practice, but put it
off cause I couldn't rationalize the cost of the practice sessions.
So, What I have learned in the class is:
-- TIG welding is not easy for me either and I surely don't
want to invest in that kind of equipment.
-- The MIG welding rig at the class did have infininte control
over both amperage and wirefeed and with aluminum welding
this is important.
-- My Hobart rig at home has had about 6 10pound spools of
steel wire fed thru it -- it will nolonger feed aluminum.
I need to invest in a new teflon lining, but have not
gotten around to that.
-- Free aluminum scrap makes practice more fun.
The instructor didn't have any experience with gas welding of
aluminum. A buddy of mine (I *need* to go see him) said
gas welding aluminum is not too hard. He has a couple of
big healys and portions of the front of that car is aluminum, also.
HE is the one that recommended:
-- the head-absorbing fixing putty to contain the heat, reducing
heat warpage
-- the blue goggles -- apparently with gas welding, the
silver molten pool of aluminum is easier to see with the
special goggles.
And now, my signature for those critical people...
Ray Harder
314-882-2000
61 SIIa 88
66 SIIa 88 (pieces, being rebuilt)
69 SIIa 88 (parts car, totally in boxes)
87 RR (wife's)
Message No 194
From root Mon Oct 25 13:47:08 1993
To: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
Cc: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk,
lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum
In-Reply-To: caloccia's message of Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:56:25 -0800.
<199310221656.MAA02677@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 11:39:28 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
If you don't want you're old wing mirrors, would you ship 'em my way ? :-)
Moss makes decent reproductions, cheap. Get the ones with convex lenses.
Message No 195
From root Mon Oct 25 20:38:39 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: discount
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 18:04:42 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com> writes:
> If I remember, car parts duty is 3.1% coming into the US. I signed up for
> the Rovers North discount but have switched over to the UK direct
> discount with in most cases is well over 50% off Rovers North prices after
> shipping and duty.
Could you confirm the duty? I'll add it to the FAQ.
> 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|||||||||||||||
Hmmm, raising
the stakes
eh... ;-)
Rgds,
Dixon "Rover VIN numbers are held in with screws"
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 196
From root Wed Oct 27 12:30:23 1993
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau <ccb@monet.ccs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Drawing of Roof Rack Brackets
To: "William L. Grouell" <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Cc: Land Rover Maillist <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: <9310260009.AA18513@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
Thanks. I'll have to get ACAD12 loaded up to take a look though, since
Ver 11 wouldn't interpret it correctly and that's all I've got installed
right now. I've got v12 on tape, just haven't taken the time yet to get
it running. This will probably be a spring project, the winter project
is considering one of those electric fans to replace the belt driven
fan. I've got most everything apart to change over from a generator to
an alternator ('69 IIa 88") in that area anyway, so I'm thinking about
it. Dirk at RN said that they haven't looked into it yet, so I might
call Merryside and see what the official word is...
--chris
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ccb@umich.edu . o c , The illusion of free will is useful
barbeau@io.eecs.umich.edu `'#+-- --+#`' to the politicians, occasionally
73210,3722@compuserve /'> <`\ I like to remind them I know this.
==============================================================================
Message No 198
From root Wed Oct 27 19:36:43 1993
To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler
In-Reply-To: twakeman's message of Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:59:18 -0800.
<9310272359.AA08875@apple.com>
X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf
)-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq;<QCyy%5KmPx]n,W#FIVy)p|^^=rgtIi0}ewXm@b9+zKvDofnrdR2
WYT"UgqH4{zPce^hW.t_''VS($QxO*(1jqXP<+]w.eZ
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 17:26:31 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>
Status: RO
My oil cooler experience is limited to various Triumphs; in all cases,
I added the cooler. My recommendation is overwhelmingly positive. Not
only does it help lonvgevity of the engine and keep the oil pressure up
(even after extended highway driving), it adds about a quart to the oil
system, which is a really good thing for our cars that leak!
Message No 199
From root Wed Oct 27 18:59:26 1993
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:59:18 -0700
From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" <twakeman@apple.com>
To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com, Rover@apple.com,
Owners@apple.com
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler
Status: RO
In message <199310272130.AA24963@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> writes:
> Anyone have any first-hand experience with oil coolers?
> Do they hold up? or are they prone to leakage?
>
> I recently rebuilt my 2.25 petrol engine and am considering an oil
> cooler with thermastat. I am being transferred to Houston and my Rover
> will have to undergo the 500 mile drive as well as dealing with the
> lovely summer weather that makes Houston such a world class (last) resort
> destination...so...I'm thinking this might be a good investment.
>
>
>
> --
> *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
> * *
> * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you *
> * Project Manager | understand what you think was *
> * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you *
> * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard *
> * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." *
> * *
> *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com *************
>
Paul,
My experience is limited to MGBs & TR3s (aftermarket). They are all favourable.
There is an optional oil cooler available for the Land Rover, that fits to the
radiator and comes with a special modified oil pan. If I was going to put one
on the Rover, I would go with the factory option. Its my understanding though
they were intended primarily for Land Rovers that spend a lot of time stationary
with the engine runing.
TeriAnn
TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine
twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they
LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer.
408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561
Message No 205
From root Thu Oct 28 11:27:39 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:08:54 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
"Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> writes:
> My oil cooler experience is limited to various Triumphs; in all cases,
> I added the cooler. My recommendation is overwhelmingly positive. Not
> only does it help lonvgevity of the engine and keep the oil pressure up
> (even after extended highway driving), it adds about a quart to the oil
> system, which is a really good thing for our cars that leak!
On Minis I use oil coolers, but then again the 'A' and 'B' blocks
are prone to overheating. Your reasoning is fine for other British
cars, but as TeriAnn points out, the only time you have to worry
about a Land Rover is when the vehicle is operating in a stationary
position. At least in this climate, an oil cooler would be a waste
of $$$.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 206
From root Thu Oct 28 11:14:59 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: Oil Cooler
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 09:58:10 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes:
> Anyone have any first-hand experience with oil coolers?
> Do they hold up? or are they prone to leakage?
I have never heard of a 2.25l having an oiler cooler added to it.
If heat was a problem, I would have thought that I would have read
about this in various literature on Land Rover's experience in
Africa. The 2.25l is seriously overbuilt and throws off heat at an
unbelieveable rate. In fact, going to the frame oiler, the running
temperature dropped to 35c with an outdoor ambient temperature of
5c. Needless to say, a new thermostat may be in order, but this
does show the rate that the engine sheds heat. In fact, during the
two weeks of summer here, when the temperature hit an inferno-like
90f for a couple of days, the 2.25l ran between 70c and 80c.
IMHO, I wouldn't bother with the oil cooler, but then again I'm in
the tundra where we can run these without fans in the winter.
Rgds,
Dixon
--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 211
From root Fri Oct 29 06:26:06 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: comparisons
To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:24:31 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <XFD6Bc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 28, 93 4:29 pm
Status: RO
Dale,its nice to see *someone* besides me has a good word or
two for the 2.25 diesel.My experiences are much the same as
yours,except that the non-starting problems with mine are
always electrical(battery/dynamo/starter motor).The engine
itself is always,touch wood,willing enough to have a go.
Mind you,I'm not talking about the sort of crippling winters
you get.The old girl ('70 11A 88") has succesfully started in
-14C weather,but that is the lowest.Warm,for you eh?.
I have an interesting comparison,that of the 2.25D and 2.25P
*in the same vehicle*.Friend of mine has a S111 which was built
and run for many years as a diesel.She never had any starting troubles,
bar one session when a heater plug gave up the ghost.Being series wired,
'nuff sed!It pulled beautifully,and was one of the quietest 2.25 diesels
I have ever heard,in fact once in motion you wouldt have known it wasnt
a petrol engine.OK,it smoked a bit on tickover,but the injectors hadnt
been set up for years.Unfortunately her son in law,then in the army,drove
it,and blew it up.He was used to petrol lightweights.It was then fitted
with a 2.25 petrol engine,ex S11A.This engine has been trouble from the
word go(or not,as the case may be).The engine is mechanically in good
nick,but suffers from vapour lock in warm weather,overheats(suspect
head gasket)etc.The upside is that it is *much* faster.Wet weather
upsets it,damp distributor it *wont* have.
The vapour lock problem I think is due to the fact that someone has
run the fuel line directly from the pump,over the top of the engine
to the carb,something I have offered to sort if she gets some fuel
line.
It is often used for towing a horsebox,and the extra revs needed to
get the rig moving are really noticeable,the old diesel used to
chunter away virtually at tickover,whereas nowadays a healthy buzz is
required.
I dont know about you,Dale,but mine makes a terrible row,except when
under load.Its very noticeable when towing.
On the level,oyu get the impression the thing is about on its last legs,
but come an incline and a bit of collar work the noise dies to a healthy
rumble.And,like you I *love* to see petrol engines stalled in a rainstorm!
Especially Japjeeps.
I just wish it was a shade faster....
Cheers
Mike Rooth
Message No 212
From root Thu Oct 28 17:22:15 1993
To: lro@stratus.com
Subject: comparisons
From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:29:32 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Status: RO
All this talk about oil coolers made me think of how usefull one would
have been on the series three 88 that I used to have.( sold to a caring
owner). I also started to compare the series three gasoline 2.25 to the
68 diesel 2.25 IIA that I presently have.
Gasoline Powered
The more it idled, the hotter it got. This could cause the coil to
overheat and the engine would barely run.
Off road, particulary in mud, I would have to "pump the gas" to prevent
stalling at low speed.
It would always always start, no matter how cold the weather was. On
really cold days the coil would freeze. The only time that I had ever
had to have a Land Rover towed home was caused by a frozen coil.
The Distributor gets wet when you take it swimming. I have an
interesting story about a small lake, wet ignition and a first date.
Diesel Powered
It idles and gets colder. ( starts to smoke, terrible habit)
Off road I can let it idle over lots of terain. It has lots of low end
torque.
Rarely starts in cold weather. Found a way to boost it with the arc
welder.
It loves water.
Dale Desprey
Ottawa, Ontario
--
Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Message No 213
From root Fri Oct 29 10:17:59 1993
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: comparisons
To: sgm@hpl.hewlett-packard.co.uk (Steve Methley)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 15:14:43 GMT
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9310291248.AA15129@methley2.hpl.hp.com>; from "Steve Methley" at Oct 29, 93 12:48 pm
Status: RO
>
> I love the sound of a diesel for off road work - no HT failures in
> rivers would be amazing! I'd be a little worried about the lack of
> road speed tho'. The expensive Tdi apart, does anyone know of a good
> diesel engine to put in a SII/III for good road work too?
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Steve.
>
Hi Steve,
The best all round diesel is said to be the 2.5L naturally aspirated
version.The 2.5 Turbo had well-documented problems with it's oil,and
was expecting rather too much IMO from what was basically the original
design (2L,2.25L,2.5L).The 2.5 N/A has the advantage of being a five
bearing engine as well.Or there is the 2L Perkins Prima (Austin Montego,
Sherpa?)either naturally aspirated or turbocharged.I met a bloke who had
done the 2.5 conversion into his 11A,and said it was the beez neez.AND as
we now know,you can change all the main bearings without removing the crank!
That would be my choice,anyway.Fuel consumption is better too.
There are *some* drawbacks to oil burners,though,like its a right pest if you
happen to run out of fuel.You have to bleed the system to expel air,which is
a bit messy.And as for hand cranking......forget it!Also,as no end of lorry
drivers told me when I first bought mine,in winter the tank should be kept
well topped up with fuel to escape waxing up problems.It works!
And,of course,the 11A/111 diesels have hand throttles as well,so you can set
your engine speed where you want it to burble along nicely thank you off road.
Or I suppose you *could* go Jap???????
Cheers
Mike
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