Land Rover Owner Mailing List
Archive July 1993


Message No 1


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  1 07:50:17 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Paintjob
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 13:41:42 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Dixon asks:

>         If you mean Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, that is were you will find
>         quite a few Land Rover nuts, swamp, beer, and possibly a thoroughly
>         enjoyable time.  When are you planning on coming over?

Yup, that's the one.  I'll be coming across for the last week in July, roughly,
and staying at "the Westin Hotel located in Downtown Ottawa".  Have you any off
road trips planned for that time?  Last time I went to the States I found some
enthusiasts to take me around the Mojave Desert.  What sort of territory do you
have out there?  Is this the armour plated "bush" which the new bumper is for?


>         Cretin.  Land Rovers are *not* supposed to be washed....{etc}..
>         :-)

Philistine.  This not any old blue, oh no, this is a three colour machine.
Actually my accompilces on off road trips refer to my vehicle as 'Paintjob' and
my good self as 'Speedy' ;-).  The main body colour is a deep powder blue with
light blue and white side/bonnet stripes in exaggerated county style.  In fact
after I washed it I also put a couple of 'LandRover V8' stickers along the side
of the bonnet!  _I_ like it.  I have Rangey wheels in white running 750 SATs to
finish off the package......

The best thing about it tho' is that V8 _burble_ from the 2 inch tail pipe.
Turbo, hah, dream on ;-)

Cheers,
Steve.  (Clean SIII V8 AP).



Message No 2


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  1 13:27:15 1993
Return-Path: <burns@cisco.com>
From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Range Rover tires (tyres)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 93 11:15:35 MDT


Hello,

I have an 91 Range Rover and am contemplating install larger
7.50 tires for Off Road use. Anyone have any idea if these will
fit under a Range Rover with out doing extensive sheet metal
damage ?

Thanks
Russ



Message No 3


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 04:11:32 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: CRY for ADVISE
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 16:58:08 CST

Hi all I spotted the following in Rec.Auto's.  All you mob in Ottawa may want
to advise this lady, more acurately.  I've included some of the replies as I
can sympathize with some of them.  Maybe people could give their
experiences/solutions to some of the problems raised.

Must go as I have too much work to do (not only on the L/R) 
-- 

                                           
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)    
  Menzies School of Health Research        
  P.O. Box 41096                           
  Casuarina N.T. 0811       _-*_|\	'82 SIII 109 V8 "omnibus" (wagon)
  Australia                /      \     350,000 Km of abuse and neglect
  Voice : 61_89_228196     \_.--._/     and It's nearly stuffed
  Fax   : 61_89_275187           v  
                                    
P.S I did wash it once, I think it was 1990 just before my wedding, Damn
thing spat a water pump next day.  Just wasnt used to the attention :-)*

*************************************************************************
From: kholling@emr1.emr.ca (Kathleen Hollington)
Subject: Land Rover
Message-ID: <1993Jun29.015457.5199@emr1.emr.ca>
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 01:54:57 GMT
Lines: 9

I am hooked on the idea of buying a used Land Rover.  They seem to me 
to be the perfect utility vehicle - what to 4-wheel drive vehicles the
Triumph is to sport cars.  It must be durable since it was designed
to operate in difficult and remote situations.  Its body is made of
aluminum so it doesn't rust in a place like Canada!
Can anyone tell me anything about them (handling, reliability, availability
of spare parts/mechanics, resale value, etc.)?
Thanks very much.  You can email responses to kholling@emr1.emr.ca


__________________________Reply #1_____________________

Er, we had a '67 109 Land Rover years ago.  I learned to drive on it.  It
is quaint in a veddy proper British sort of way.  Like putting a stress
concentration in the full-floating axles (all four wheels) so that _WHEN_
(not if) you destroyed the axle rather than destroy a diff (which it does
anyway when the chips fall into the diff bath).  I suppose it would not
have been sporting to beef everything up so that the engine would not tear
the driveline apart.  Or the all indirect transfer case, so that top speed
(high range, 4th gear, at redline engine RPMs) was limited to 57 mph.  Or
the centerless cam followers that require removal and turning when they
(eventually) flat spot cause they sound _exactly_ like an entire engine
full of bad rod bearings.  Or twelve bolts to hold the banjo on the diff
for a 4 inch ring-and-pinion (when 4 bolts would have done).  Or having
metric, SAE _AND_ Whitworth hardware (all on the same vehicle!?!).  Or the
aluminium (proper Aussie spelling) bodywork rotting off of the steel
chassis due to galvanic electrolysis (even though we lived in the
_desert_).  Or the four speed square cut gear non-synchromesh `crash' box
transmission (though it never did fail on us, other than the gearshift
lever falling off, twice).  Or the complete lack of anything resembling
creature comforts (dash?  What's a bloody dash?).  Or the very weird
handbrake that acted on the drive shaft.

English products = quality control.  NOT!

-- 
Al Bowers    DOD #900    Alfa    Ducati    Hobie    Kottke    'blad    Iaido
National Aeronautics and Space Administration Dryden Flight Research Facility
Lead Aero F-18 HARV    Chief Engineer SR-71   work: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
   "Take up an attitude with the sun behind you..."    -Miyamoto Musashi


___________________________Reply #2_________________________

I own a 1974 Series 3 Landrover which I have recently travelled around 
Australia in.  In my experience Landrovers are noisy, uncomfortable,
bone-shaking 4WDs ...... having said that they will always get you where
you want to go (exception being Kings Canyon, NT (long story..don't
ask)) even though when you get there your body aches, your ears ring and
everyone else got there an hour before you (YES they are s..l..o..w).

Everything in a Landy is well bolted in (over-designed?) - for example
where most 4x4's have about 4-6 bolts holding the radiator in, the Landy
has about 16!!! They are fun to work on !!! Believe me!!! The gear box
(at least on all models to the early 80's) can only be taken out upwards
through the car interior - this, IMHO, is why Landrover fell so much
behind Toyota in the big 4WD stakes  and have yet to really catch up. 

My father also owns a Landrover - a 1982 S3 - and the difference (and
similarities) are amazing.  His vehicle is far quieter and smoother than
mine but then this may just be due to mine having been bush-bashed more.
Anyway enough of this - IF you decide to go for a Landy here are some
hints......
* Get one with a Landrover engine (mine has a Holden 186. The extra revs
that the 6 cyl produced beat the hell out of my Landy g/box.  Do not
believe that altering the box will help - a friend of mine had the same
problem with a beefed up g/box!

* Unless you are to do a lot of sand-driving stick with the original
tyres - they are cheaper to replace and for rock/dirt tracks are much
better.

I have to add that my fathers truck has had almost NO problems since he
bought it and (before we moved to Perth) he used it every weekend for
offroading!!!  The moral of the story (I guess) is be wary - but a good
Landy (or a bad one like mine) will get you ANYWHERE!!!  Like the new
Landy ads go .... "AN AMAZING DISCOVERY!!! THE NEW LANDROVER WILL GET
YOU ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE (picture of one atop a barren treeless hill)"

Enough from me - I love Landys and will be sad to see mine go (selling
soon as Scott Fisher no doubt knows, G'day Scott - ta for car info!).
You can bet as soon as I get the extra money (and convince my
wife...SIGH!) I'll be hooning the Tanami track in a 1980's Landy with a
2.3 L 4cyl engine, skinny tyres and all stock gear!!

--------------------------------
mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au
Life is my Landrover (and my wife, of course)


_____________________________Reply # 3_______________________

In a previous article, cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) says:

>In article <20q313$e9m@news.ysu.edu> ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:

>> Er, we had a '67 109 Land Rover years ago.  I learned to drive on it.  

>[ tale of woe deleted ]

I'm not sure I would characterize it as a tale of woe.  It was good
vehicle, for what it was.  But it was not exceptional as a utility vehicle,
and some of the design `features' were a bit bizzare. 

>I'm sure that Landies have changed a wee bit in the last *twenty six
>years*... :-) (I know I have.)

Unless you've owned one, you'd not know how _LITTLE_ they have changed
since 1960.  The current Series 110s are not that far removed from the 109
we had years ago.  I am not denigrating Land Rovers, they are a good
vehicle.  And in many places, due to local governments, they are
economically a good deal.  But no rose colored glasses, please...

-- 
Al Bowers    DOD #900    Alfa    Ducati    Hobie    Kottke    'blad    Iaido
National Aeronautics and Space Administration Dryden Flight Research Facility
Lead Aero F-18 HARV    Chief Engineer SR-71   work: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
   "Take up an attitude with the sun behind you..."    -Miyamoto Musashi



Message No 4


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 04:11:38 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Paintjob
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 1 Jul 1993 21:55:34 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:

> Have you any off road trips planned for that time?

Every weekend a bunch of us go off into some 200 acres of forest, swamp,
and stream.  There is a trail that we intend to complete, as it has been
very unco-operative for the past three weekends.  At the rate we are going,
we may make it through by the time you arrive.

> What sort of territory do you have out there?

        As above.  Lots of water too...  :-)

> Is this the armour plated "bush" which the new bumper is for?

        Also for a particular rock face one has to scramble up, though the
        starting point for the rock face is a "canal" of water some 50 feet
        long, one to three feet deep (lots of submerged items).  Bump
        starting other Land Rovers is another use when their electrics get
        a bit wet, or the battery/dynamo starts to fail.

> Philistine.  This not any old blue, oh no, this is a three colour machine.
> Actually my accompilces on off road trips refer to my vehicle as 'Paintjob' a
> my good self as 'Speedy' ;-).  The main body colour is a deep powder blue wit
> light blue and white side/bonnet stripes in exaggerated county style.  In fac
> after I washed it I also put a couple of 'LandRover V8' stickers along the si
> of the bonnet!  _I_ like it.  I have Rangey wheels in white running 750 SATs 
> finish off the package......

        Mine is three colour too.  Dark green, aluminium from where the
        paint has come off, and mud.  Wheels are rust and Rover beige(?)
        paint.  Roof is standard safari colour.  *No* racing stripes or
        other yuppie colour combinations...  :-)

        You should find it interesting to see the collection over here.  It
        will be rather different from your usual fare, as there are few
        Series III's, but mostly Series II's and a bunch of Series I's.
        Sales stopped here in '74 I believe.

> The best thing about it tho' is that V8 _burble_ from the 2 inch tail pipe.
> Turbo, hah, dream on ;-)

        I prefer the burble of a happy engine with tail pipe submerged in
        water while surging forward...  :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon

        PS.  Still awaiting your weight restrictions... Would a 3.5l,
             2.5TDi, or coil spring conversion kit stow away in your
             overnight bag?  <grin>  Actually, pistons, bearings, etc are
             probably the range I'm interested in...


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 5


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 06:07:23 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Range Rover tires (tyres)
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 11:59:04 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Russ asks:

> I have an 91 Range Rover and am contemplating install larger
> 7.50 tires for Off Road use. Anyone have any idea if these will
> fit under a Range Rover with out doing extensive sheet metal
> damage ?

I know of many people that do this for just the same reason.  There seem to be
absolutely no clearance problems.  Some people run cross-ply mud tyres on
Rangeys, but are aware that the speed rating of the tyre is too low for
Motorway work and they know the handling will be affected.  Which tyres were
you thinking about?  A popular compromise in the UK are 7.50R16 BFG TracEdge's.
Some shops will try to sell you these in 235/85R16 size (rolling radius
slightly larger, a couple of inches wider) but you are more likely to foul the
body with these and they are a bit wide for the rim.  (Which rims do you have?)

Hope this is useful,
Cheers,
Steve.



Message No 6


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 06:14:12 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Paintjob
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 12:05:22 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <B8e26B1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Jul 1, 93 9:55 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Hi Dixon,
         your off-road trips sound like fun.  Book me a place in a vehicle for
last or penultimate w/e in July!


>         PS.  Still awaiting your weight restrictions... Would a 3.5l,
>              2.5TDi, or coil spring conversion kit stow away in your
>              overnight bag? 

No problem.  Please advise number of each required.
--

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Best Regards,
Steve.

Dr Steve Methley               *****     *****
HP Labs, Filton Road,          ***  /_  __ ***   email:   sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK          **  / / /_/  **   or       sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk
direct line:  +44 272 228751   ***    /    ***   fax:     +44 272 228924
switchboard:  +44 272 799910   *****     *****   or               228920

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Message No 7


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 11:16:16 1993
Return-Path: <jory@Athena.MIT.EDU>
From: jory@athena.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: safari top query
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 12:07:19 EDT


can anyone enumerate (from real life experience) the benefits
of the safari top... i understand that the extra "sun sheet"
on top is supposed to keep things cooler, and the extra
windows seem kinda nice, but i was wondering if anyone had
ever perceived a real bonus to these puppies...

-jory

ps: the company that does coil sprung conversions only offers
    disc brake hardware in conjunction with their conversion...
    as i understand it...

pps:does anyone have any secrets for squeaky brakes... mine
    always seem real loud no matter their state or what i do...



Message No 8


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 11:30:03 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: safari top query
To: jory@athena.mit.edu
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 93 17:23:53 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <9307021607.AA00628@bolognese>; from "jory@Athena.MIT.EDU" at Jul 02, 93 12:07 (noon)
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Jory asks:

> ps: the company that does coil sprung conversions only offers
>     disc brake hardware in conjunction with their conversion...
>     as i understand it...

This will change in a couple of months.  They are to send me details on their
kit under development for fitting RR discs to SIII axles.


> pps:does anyone have any secrets for squeaky brakes... mine
>     always seem real loud no matter their state or what i do...

Copperslip or equivalent on backplate/pivot points?

Cheers,
Steve.

PS  I've never had any hardtop, but I know my softtop keeps me dry when friends
with hardtops have leaks around the rims etc.  Never tried snow tho!



Message No 9


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  2 13:24:09 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 14:17:55 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: safari top query

>can anyone enumerate (from real life experience) the benefits
>of the safari top... i understand that the extra "sun sheet"
>on top is supposed to keep things cooler, and the extra
>windows seem kinda nice, but i was wondering if anyone had
>ever perceived a real bonus to these puppies...

Having never driven a Land Rover without the safari top for any great
distance, it's hard to compare, but, I feel that the top does indeed keep
things cooler inside in hot weather.  Not only is there the air space which
keeps the sun from directly heating the 'ceiling,' but there is an air flow
between the panels when you're moving.  There are also 4 forward facing
vents which pop up between the panels to direct the breeze (and bugs) down
into the vehicle.  That air movement is a boon in my 107 station wagon,
which has solid panel windows in the back-end.  Of course, there are only
two very accessible nuts that hold the top half of the rear door in place.

In 1972, when I returned to the U.S. through the Brownsville, Texas customs
station at midnight from a 2 1/2 month journey through Mexico and some of
Central America, the safari top generated a great deal of interest among
the inspectors.  They must have spent 15 minutes peering between the panels
from every conceivable angle with high powered flashlights.

Another advantage to the safari top is the handiness of the posts that hold
up the top panel for lashing things to the roof.

I can't wait until I can get it back together and on the road.

----------

By the way, did anyone on the list make it to the Maine Coast Land Rover
event last weekend?


Steve Margolis                  E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu
Information Resources
Cornell University              Phone:  (607) 255-1477
Ithaca is Gorges, NY            Fax:    (607) 254-5222
14853-2601



Message No 10


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 00:17:53 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: swamp & trail that Dixon has problems with...
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:22:19 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

hey Dixon SAT 
3july i made it through the trail in my 88 sans winch. Read it and weep.


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 11


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 00:32:41 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: crack tests.
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:07:24 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

 
sorry Chris but twenty bucks doesn't even get you in the door here with 
labour rates nearing $50.00 an hour.


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 12


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 00:44:45 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: squeaky brakes...
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 22:32:42 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


in my experience with squeaky brakes it is usually the shoe material try 
genuine shoes or good quality aftermarket.if in fact your shoes were out 
of alignment and rubbing on the drum or backplate the braking ability 
would be somewhat diminished which you may have noticed .generally my 
make a honing sound and do not work at all after wading for some miles.a 
tad awkward.


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 13


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 00:44:46 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: The days events...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 3 Jul 1993 23:31:12 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Well, Steve, the trail has been conquered by a 1961 swb pick-up, a
        1962 swb, a 1973 swb, and my 109.  Much mud flew as we forged ahead
        through muck and mire.  Progress was periodically curtailled by
        George's 62, which exhibited all the symptoms of a beast solely in
        need of some tender loving care.  He managed to bury the thing in
        every mud hole that we came across.  This unfortunate series of
        events was the *only* thing that kept me from doing the trail
        without ever once getting stuck.

        You might hear some crowing from Ted Rose, who managed the trail
        without getting stuck, but this was solely the result of George and
        myself forging a trail upon which he trod.

        You shall enjoy this trail, as at the end there is a water "splash"
        which results in a lovely bow wave that will break across your
        windscreen when you first dive into the pond.  The unfortunate part
        of this water splash is that it cleans off some of the nice black
        mud that has accumulated over the day.  As one does not want to
        risk embarrasement, we shall have to go back and do the trail again
        to get a protective layer over our paint.  We wouldn`t want to look
        like yuppies eh?  :-)


        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 14


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 12:25:41 1993
Return-Path: <jory@Athena.MIT.EDU>
From: jory@athena.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: address change
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 93 13:16:54 EDT


i wonder if the list administrator type person could 
change my address from jory@athena.mit.edu (or jory@mit.edu)
to jory@moray.mit.edu.

sorry for the wasted bandwodth...

-jory



Message No 15


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul  4 13:49:07 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: aftermath of saturdays events...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 4 Jul 1993 13:34:00 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        An inspection of the 109 in the aftermath of our efforts to ram our
        way down the trail has turned up some items on the Rover that will
        now need addressing.  It seems that the frame was not as strong as
        we had been lead to believe.  The outrigger holding the front
        spring shackle for the left rear spring has collapsed upwards,
        revealing a bit of rot and a slightly noisier ride as it bounces
        around.  Welding time later this week, I guess...


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 16


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul  6 12:01:53 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 12:54:48 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: electrical and transmission questions


I was out working on the LR again this weekend undoing some of the POs
work:  getting the floor plates up and the silicone caulking off and
some minor electrical work.

First question came up while getting the floor plates up.  I wanted to
get these off to give the transmission an inspection.  My transmission,
however, seems to be of a slightly different configuration than that
in the Haynes.  Instead of the top-mounted filler plug and dip stick,
mine has a side-filling plug and a kind of breather cap on top.  And
the bolt on top that holds some kind of detent ball is, I swear, a
*gasp* metric bolt (15mm).  That plus the more modern side-fill plug
suggests that this might be a more recent version of the transmission.
Correct?

The PO has some problems with a burned-out wiper switch (single-motor,
two-blade config of a IIa) so he wired in a simple SPST toggle to have
something working.  I replaced the washer switch but then had the task
of undoing the rewiring.  A wiring harness that comes from the switch
and goes over to the motor has a 5-pin socket (green, red/lt. green,
blue/lt. green, brown/lt. green, black wires) that looks a lot like
a SIII configuration (it also has a washer switch & pump).  But the
motor has only three lugs arranged in a line and one of those is 
ground.  Looks from the electrical diagrams that it might be a SII
motor.  So, what the hell gives?  Does anyone know what I have on my
hands?  In the interim, I've wired one of the lugs to the new switch
so that I could dump the Radio Shack toggle and restore the hazard
switch and indicator (another SIII touch?) to their original, if currently
disfunctional, positions but I would like to get this straightened out.

Monty



Message No 17


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul  6 16:01:54 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 13:54:44 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions

Monty,

  Your transmission description seems like a late IIa to me. Are you sure that
bolt is not a Whitworth, 'cause that's what the whole transmission/transfer
case is held together with?
  Tip for putting the floor boards back; I use one 1.25" wide X 1/8" thick,
closed cell foam tape instead of the dum-dum (putty) that the factory uses.
This is available at hardware and auto-parts stores as "Camper Tape" as it is 
sold to put along the edge of pick-up beds to seal and cushion the gap between
the truck sides and a camper. Just clean off all the old stuff from both the
floor boards and the chassis. Put a strip all around each piece where it lays
down onto the chassis. If you trim the corner cuts carefully so that there are
no gaps you will get a good water tight seal, but you will be able to remove
and replace the boards several times without having to redo. Punch the holes
for the screws with a 1/4" dia. arch punch, or paper punch.

Rgds, Bill G.   



Message No 18


> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul  6 09:57:57 1993
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: electrical and transmission questions


> First question came up while getting the floor plates up.  I wanted to
> get these off to give the transmission an inspection.  My transmission,
> however, seems to be of a slightly different configuration than that
> in the Haynes.  Instead of the top-mounted filler plug and dip stick,
> mine has a side-filling plug and a kind of breather cap on top.  And
> the bolt on top that holds some kind of detent ball is, I swear, a
> *gasp* metric bolt (15mm).  That plus the more modern side-fill plug
> suggests that this might be a more recent version of the transmission.
> Correct?
disfunctional, positions but I would like to get this straightened out.
> 
> Monty
> 
> 



Message No 19


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul  6 17:19:14 1993
Return-Path: <jory@Athena.MIT.EDU>
From: jory@athena.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: misc
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 93 18:11:25 EDT


monty: 

for putting the floor boards back down, you can get 3/4"
wide 1/4" thich adhesive backed closed cell foam (the same stuff they
now use to assemble defenders i am todl) at green rubber for $25 a
roll... it's great stuff (greene rubber is on second street in 
cambridge)...i used it during my rebuild in any number of places...

here's a nice tidbit about rovers north:

the last time i went to rovers north (engine job from hell due
to nasty dap parts), i threw a rubber boot on the front drive shaft...
after installation, charlie of rn tightened the retaining collar
way on (he said it was loose)... on the drive home, the rover
exhibited an increasing vibration which i eventually alleviated
by disengaging the front hubs... after driving like this for a few
months, i finally removed the front drive shaft and found that the
retaining collar was dished outward... i feared that there was
something wrong with the driveshaft and that it would need balancing,
replacement or something... after calling a driveshaft place in town ($50 
minimum) i called charlie at rn to ask his opinion, and he though that it
was simply too tight, and it was dished from being drawn back with the rear-
ward bit of the draveshaft... he then said he'd send a new retainer to me...
(i didn't even ask)...

about handbrakes:

my handbrak has been frozen for several months... this weekend
i finally ripped the linkage apart and the part that rotates on the
frame was pretty seized... no someone suggested adding a grease fitting to
this bit, and i was trying to figure out how the bushing would have to be
modified (lathework?) so that a greasefitting would distribute the grease
and be of any use... any thoughts?

on coils suspensions and reowkred gearboxes:

does anyone have a source of literature or reprints of reviews from
european auto magazines of any of these "accessories."... not to mention
price lists , etc...

later,

-jory



Message No 20


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  8 10:34:17 1993
Return-Path: <lizard@triton.unm.edu>
From: Lizard <lizard@triton.unm.edu>
Subject: How to post
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 09:27:16 -0600 (MDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 190       


Hi,

I guess I do need to ask.  How does one post to the group at large?  Do
I respond to any post, or do I need to make an alias?

-Merrick (future Rover owner--envious of my partner :)



Message No 21


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  8 13:59:29 1993
Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET>
Date:         Thu, 08 Jul 93 14:46:33 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170%UTKVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com

subscribe



Message No 22


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  8 14:37:50 1993
Return-Path: <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 15:30:01 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>


------- Forwarded Message

Return-Path: DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Return-Path: <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
Received: from transfer.stratus.com by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (4.1/3.10-jjm)
	id AA01473; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:12:31 EDT
Received: from v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil by transfer.stratus.com (4.1/3.14-jjm)
	id AA13372; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:10:03 EDT
Message-Id: <9307081910.AA13372@transfer.stratus.com>
Date: 8 Jul 93 15:06:00 EST
From: "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
Subject: Hello
To: "land-rover-owner-request" <land-rover-owner-request@transfer.stratus.com>

I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonderingif anyone there knows anything about bringing one vehicle over from England to
the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo.


------- End of Forwarded Message



Message No 23


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  8 22:02:52 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: SIII combo switches, a quick fix
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:13:20 CST

Hi gang, Sorry if this is old news but I thought i'd post it in case someone
finds it usefull.  
As any one with a SIII, moke or other lucas equiped pommie car will know,
eventually the combination Indicator(trafficator),horn, and high/low beam
switch will give trouble.  The most common (apart from the cracks) is that
either the high or low beam fails to work.  The first time this happens you
can bend the contacts and it will last for a few more months but the second
time bending the contacts will only last for a few weeks.  At this point you
may assume that you are up for a new switch assembly , as I did.

When I found that the switch was going to cost me $129 Aus (about 40% of a
weeks wages) I figured that there had to be a cheaper way. There is.

Go to your local electronics shop, buy 2 "scotch-locks" (wire
joiners/splicers) a "piggy-back"  spade connector, a small eye ring terminal
(or scotch-lock) a roll of wire and most importantly a 12v "normally closed"
relay or a 12v "change over"relay. ( SPDT ? , one in which the relay switches
current from one contact to the other when engaged)

Any-way.  Piggy-back a power-supply from the dash switch terminal which feeds
power to the combi switch (usually the bottom RHS) to the relay contact

Message No 24


engaged when the relay is *not* activated.  From the centre relay terminal
run a wire to the low beam wire coming from the combi switch, I just spliced
this in rather than cutting and shutting the wire (not that I'm Lazy :-),
this will probable be a blue wire with a red stripe.  On the solenoid
(activating side) of the relay take one wire to earth, I found the earth
points on the speedo mounts to be convenient.  run the other wire to any
High-beam supply. ( I used the High beam indicator light)

Bingo.  When you switch the lights on the low beam gets power all the time,
until you switch to high beam when the relay activates and breaks the circuit
to low beam.  Whats more it gets rid of that horrible blackness which occurs
when you change from high to low and vice-versa.

Total cost $9.35 Aus  Total time to fit: about 15-20 min depending on how
neat you want it to be.

-- 

                                 
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)

  Darwin          _-*_|\
  Australia      /      \
                 \_.--._/
                       v 
                                   


Message No 25


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 08:45:45 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 8 Jul 1993 22:58:56 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

> From: "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
> 
> I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonder
> the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo.

        I do not know about US law, but you can bring as many vehicles as
        you want from the UK to Canada, so long as they meet the DOT
        specifications for the model year.  Pay the GST and what ever
        taxes, and you are home free, more or less...


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 26


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 10:08:58 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 11:00:15 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY"


>> From: "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
>> 
>> I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonder
>> the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo.
>
>        I do not know about US law, but you can bring as many vehicles as
>        you want from the UK to Canada, so long as they meet the DOT
>        specifications for the model year.  Pay the GST and what ever
>        taxes, and you are home free, more or less...

In the US, it's become very difficult to do this since 1986 or so.
The law now requires that any car imported be tested for emissions
and safety under the guidelines in effect when the vehicle was
built.  So, that typically means crash testing four vehicles, EPA and
DOT inspections etc.  I believe there is still an exemption in place
for military personnel serving overseas so that's generally your
only hope.  Relevant phone numbers of our oppressors are:

	US Customs, Mr. Joseph Kane, 617.565.6117

	US DoT, Mr. Dick Merritt, 202.366.5313

	US EPA, 202.260.2504

Yes, I did the research on this sometime ago.  The easiest way of 
importing someting interesting is to get and Army or AF type to bring
one in.  After that, there are a number of importers who do the DOT 
and EPA mods, have bonded storage, etc.

Monty



Message No 27


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 11:13:37 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 12:04:29 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions


[Tried to send this to Mike R. but his mailer quits too easily...]

>I agree with Bill,sounds exactly like my '70 11A.The S111 wiper was,
>I think,self parking,but the 11A isnt(well,mine isnt anyway,and I've
>no reason to think it isnt original).I've got wiper and washer operating
>off one switch.If yours has been upgraded from two motors to one,there
>will,or should,be the original mounting holes for the two motors at the
>base of the windscreen.Are your headlamps in the wings,or in the radiator
>panel?Although not a reliable indication,if they are in the wings the
>thing is almost certainly a late-ish 11A.If not,well,it still *could* be,
>but not as certainly.But it has my vote.

Ooops, I think I missed Bill's message.  Mine is a late IIA ('69) and
the wiper motor isn't self-parking.  I didn't notice mounting holes
for motors below the wipers but I didn't really look while I was
playing with the wiring.  The mounting plate for the motor was secured
only at one spot on the dash so perhaps it is a field upgrade.  So,
do you know what the three terminals on the motor are for?  I have
ground and one of the other terminals connected in a working fashion.
Should I just connect the other to + to get a different speed?

Another thing odd on my LR:  Between the steering and the 'glove compartment'
I have three instrument panels:  Main one with speedo and gauges,
middle with ignition switch and non-functioning hazard light, and a left
one with oil pressure and what I think is a hand throttle (never
tried it).  Is this normal in a late IIa?  It's certainly at odds with
the Haynes manual.

tnx

Monty



Message No 28


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 11:53:00 1993
Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET>
Date:         Fri, 09 Jul 93 12:39:12 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170%UTKVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Seeking General Info on LR's
To: Land Rover Owners <land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com>


     I need information on older land rovers. I am interested in
the 109's from '60's to '70's. Any information you could provide
me with would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!!


                                                       -Joseph Broach



Message No 29


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 12:59:15 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 93 10:49:33 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Re: import info request 

Maureen,

  I have a friend who, just this week is taking delivery of a LR 110' that
was a scout vehicle for the Camel Trophy held in Russia. The truck is a 
diesel, so that makes it eaiser to get in. He told me that it had to go
through a federal inspection station, of which there are few. His is in LA
and he lives in the SF bay area. He expects all that will have to be done is
change the head lights.

  I'm sure he would be more than willing to share he first hand knowldge with
you. And he is the Secretary of the Land Rover Owners Assoc. NA so you can 
join right up.

   Contact; Domingo (Dom) Dias
            1240 Kelly Ave.
            San Leandro, Ca.
            94577
            510 569-8879

Regards, Bill G.  spelling errors included for your amusment



Message No 30


> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul  8 12:33:46 1993
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: import info request (reply to "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
> Content-Length: 833
> X-Lines: 21
> 
> 
> ------- Forwarded Message
> 
> Return-Path: DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
> Return-Path: <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
> Received: from transfer.stratus.com by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (4.1/3.10-jjm)
> 	id AA01473; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:12:31 EDT
> Received: from v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil by transfer.stratus.com (4.1/3.14-jjm)
> 	id AA13372; Thu, 8 Jul 93 15:10:03 EDT
> Message-Id: <9307081910.AA13372@transfer.stratus.com>
> Date: 8 Jul 93 15:06:00 EST
> From: "MAUREEN DAY" <DAY@v22c.npt.nuwc.navy.mil>
> Subject: Hello
> To: "land-rover-owner-request" <land-rover-owner-request@transfer.stratus.com>
> 
> I just got this e-mail address from the Rovers north newsletter. I was wonderingif anyone there knows anything about bringing one vehicle over from England to
> the US once in your lifetime? and has anyone been successful ? Mo.
> 
> 
> ------- End of Forwarded Message
> 
> 



Message No 31


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul  9 13:13:05 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 14:10:19 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re:  6 cylinder Power Plant

Sub-titled: OOPS, Margolis eats crow.  When I said last week
>I wasn't aware of a 2.6 6 cyl. engine, but have seen a 3 liter 6 in 109"
>wagons,
it was a bad assumption on my part that, because the 6 cylinder engine was
essentially the same casting as my 2 liter 4 cylinder, the 6 cylinder
displaced 3 liters.  The response about having never seen a 3 liter engine
in a Land Rover prompted me to rummage through assorted old Rover and Land
Rover literature stashed in my barn, and indeed the displacement of the 6
cylinder engine was 2.6 liters (2626 cc. to be exact).  The bore of 3.063
in. is identical to the bore of the 2 liter (1997 cc according to my owner'
manual).  The difference is that the 2 liter engine has a 4.134 in. stroke,
while the 2.6 has a 3.625 in. stroke.  The horsepower difference between
the two engines is 52 B.H.P at 4,000 RPM vs. 123 B.H.P. at 5,000 RPM.  But
I am still reasonably certain that they both use the same AC Delco FF-24
oil filter element.


Steve Margolis                  E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu
Information Resources
Cornell University              Phone:  (607) 255-1477
Ithaca is Gorges, NY            Fax:    (607) 254-5222
14853-2601



Message No 32


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 10 13:08:25 1993
Return-Path: <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Posted-Date:  Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:43:05 -1812
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1993 12:43:05 -1812
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: 1967 IIa 109 4sale

For anybody interested there is a safari wagon (67 109 IIa) for sale in the
Austin area. It has the straight six. The owner is motivated. New gearbox
and transfer case. He want $5500, but would easily take $5k. I'm not sure
it is really worth that - but . . . . 
Let me know if you want more info -
Greg



Message No 33


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 10 13:50:24 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Seeking General Info on LR's
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 10 Jul 1993 11:04:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Joseph Broach <PC7170%UTKVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu> writes:

>      I need information on older land rovers. I am interested in
> the 109's from '60's to '70's. Any information you could provide
> me with would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time!!

        There is a lot of general information available.
        One source is /pub/sol/landrover.ascii which can
        be ftp'd from hoosier.cs.utah.edu.

        What exactly do you want to know?  The 109's in question above
        would be Series II through Series III vehicles that came in several
        different forms.


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 34


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 00:10:09 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Possible FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 10 Jul 1993 23:35:32 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        While hiding in my basement this evening from the oppressive mid
        eighty temperatures I started to play with developing a LRO FAQ
        based on TerriAnn's landrover.ascii file.  Basically to this point
        I have just expanded sections, adding detail here and there,
        specifications and capacities et cetera.

        What items would anyone like to see in this effort?  Combine some
        of the sections from the Parts Suppliers list (clubs, publications
        etc) into the text file?

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 35


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 00:18:09 1993
Return-Path: <@uga.cc.uga.edu:PC7170@UTKVM1.BITNET>
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 93 00:45:26 LCL
From: Joseph Broach <PC7170%UTKVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      Where to find used LR's
To: Land Rover Owners <land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com>


     I have gotten a lot of valuable information on Land Rovers from
this net. Thanks to all who are responding!! The next logical step for
me would be to look at/drive an older Land Rover. However I am having
trouble finding one in my area. There are a few LR dealerships within
a couple of hours drive from here (here being Knoxville,TN). Do dealerships
of new Land Rovers get older one's as well? Would I have better luck
looking at classifieds in Charlotte,Atlanta papers? Any advice would
prove most helpful in my search! Thanks.



Message No 36


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 11 10:03:52 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Where to find used LR's
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 11 Jul 1993 10:09:51 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Joseph Broach <PC7170%UTKVM1.BITNET@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> writes:

>      I have gotten a lot of valuable information on Land Rovers from
> this net. Thanks to all who are responding!! The next logical step for
> me would be to look at/drive an older Land Rover. However I am having
> trouble finding one in my area. There are a few LR dealerships within
> a couple of hours drive from here (here being Knoxville,TN). Do dealerships
> of new Land Rovers get older one's as well? Would I have better luck
> looking at classifieds in Charlotte,Atlanta papers? Any advice would
> prove most helpful in my search! Thanks.

        You will find that Land Rovers are concentrated in the American
        northeast and northwest areas of your country.  A similar
        distribution happens in Canada with few Land Rovers being found on
        the Prairies, the majority in the east and western parts of the
        country.

        Frankly, I think that your chances of finding a Land Rover in your
        general geographic area are slim, though not at all impossible.  I
        would suggest that you be prepared to look farther afield.  How
        farther you are willing to go only depends on how long you wish to
        wait to discover one.  Land Rovers can be had on very short notice,
        as I regularly see a number for sale in the Atlantic-British
        newsletter, as well as the Rover's North newsletter.  The other
        consideration for going afield for one is price.  If you are
        located in an area where there are few, if any Land Rovers, you
        will find that condition may be sub-standard, and the price
        excessive.

        As for the dealerships, my understanding is that they have no
        interest in dealing with older Land Rovers.  LRNA, when asked about
        the older vehicles refer people to local or regional clubs for the
        purchase and sale of their pets.  One LRNA chap in Toronto didn't
        have a clue to the differences between Land Rovers built from 1947
        to the late 1980's.  He figured that they were all the sme.

        Best of luck...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 37


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 12 11:00:40 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 08:47:30 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: electrical and transmission questions

Monty, people paly with instrument pannels all the time.  The later IIA,
have toggle switches while the older ones have push-pull switches.
The older ones did not have hazard lights. Post 67 (?) LRs were imported
into the US with the black Delux seat covers.  Earlier ones were gray.
Pre-'66(?) LRs had steering wheels with metal spokes.  Later ones had
plastic spokes on the wheel.  These are not interchangable.  The single wiper
motor came in 1967.  Head lamps were moved to the wings for 1968.
The Solex was used through 1967.  The Zenith carb was fitted, 1968 & later.

Missed the first part of the conversation, but hope this helps.

TeriAnn



Message No 38


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 13 09:25:13 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1993 18:46:06 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Engine transplant?

Hey gang,  Here is a question that I was going to get around to posing
sometime, but the matter has suddenly become urgent.  You may or may not
remember that I have a Series I 107 station wagon present in kit form with
a freshly reconstructed frame.  The series I is (under)powered by a 2-liter
petrol engine, which in my case, has been sitting on the ground for about 3
years, and hasn't been started in about 7 or 8 years, but had been turned
over occasionally by hand or towing in gear every once in a while. 

While I still don't have the cash to spare to complete the reconstruction
right now, here's my situation, my question, and the reason for the
urgency.  My daily driver has been a 1981 Peugeot with a 1984 Peugeot 2 1/4
liter turbo diesel engine.  (I'm not sure which is more perverse, English
vehicles - I used to own a 1966 Rover 2000 TC - or French vehicles, so I
like to have at least one of each at all times.)  Well, this past Wednesday
morning, on my way into work, there was repaving going on on the 2 lane
highway I take to Ithaca.  During rush hour, the contractors were paving
one side and flagging traffic through one direction at a time.  The
repaving was being done in the city of Ithaca where the highway is 30 miles
per hour.  The traffic backed up and came to a stop about a mile and a half
above the project where the speed limit is 55 miles per hour.  Well, I
stopped because a couple of hundred cars in front of me stopped, but a
State Police Detective (!) in an unmarked police car behind me didn't stop.
 At least not before he made my poor old car about a foot and a half
shorter.  It crumpled up like it was designed to, absorbing most of the
energy of the crash, but I am sure the insurance companies are going to
total it.

So, (I hope you're still there) my question:  Has anyone ever heard of
doing a transplant of this sort: a Peugeot turbo diesel into a Land Rover. 
What sort of measurements would I need to make?  Would I also need to
transplant the radiator?  Someone I mentioned this to (before the urgency)
thought the transmission might need to be transplanted as well.  

Am I crazy?

Wishing I had been in a Land Rover while I was rear-ended, rather than a
Peugeot sedan.

Steve Margolis                  E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu
Information Resources
Cornell University              Phone:  (607) 255-1477
Ithaca is Gorges, NY            Fax:    (607) 254-5222
14853-2601



Message No 39


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 13 13:43:31 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:36:56 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, sim1@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Engine transplant?


>Am I crazy?

You're nuts.



Message No 40


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 14 03:39:48 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Engine transplant?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:22:15 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) writes:

> Am I crazy?

        Two things...  Congradulations on getting rear ended by an
        undercover cop... :-)  As for shoving a Peugot engine into your
        Land Rover, don't waste your time.  The engines suck big time...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 41


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 14 03:57:41 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: To Dixon regarding Land Rover stuff...
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Tue, 13 Jul 1993 23:29:50 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


with rgds to your prior mess regarding LRs.you may have blundered down 
the trail in front of me but you most certainly did not forge a trail for 
others but merely made it more of a challenge for the remaining vehicles 
following.


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 42


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 11:52:03 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Current FAQ status...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 21:58:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Below is the current table of contents of the FAQ that I am putting
        together.  Thus far is stands a little over 800 lines, but will
        grow a bit more when I put some of the details that have been
        requested by a few people.  As it stands, I have taken TerriAnn's
        effort and added in great chunks without much thought to a
        particular structured order (I have never seen a vehicle FAQ to
        base this on), so comments would be appreciated.

        I notice on the British-cars mailing-list that a Jaguar book list
        has been produced listing some 80+ books available on that marque.
        Though I doubt that a list of Land Rover books would be as
        extensive, if anyone has titles (title, author, publisher, ISBN#
        and comments) of books that they find useful, send them on over.
        Any other information that you might have kicking about would also
        be appreciated.

        When I have it in a semi-final state, I'll post it for comment and
        any additions before I upload it onto hoosier.cs.utah.edu.

        Rgds,

        Dixon

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents:
1.      What is a Land Rover
2.      What Land Rovers were imported to North America
        - Series I
        - Series II & IIA
        - Series III
3.      Engines (Comments and specs)
        - Petrol (4 cylinder)
        - Diesel
        - Petrol (6 cylinder)
4.      Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover
        - Checking under the Land Rover
        - Starting the engine
        - Test driving
        - Land Rover extras
        - Value
5.      Specifications
        - General (height, weights, dimensions etc. for 88 & 109)
        - Capacities (fluids)
6.      Parts Distributors
        - USA & Canada
        - Great Britain
7.      Magazines & publications
8.      Clubs
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 43


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 12:08:26 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: To Dixon regarding Land Rover stuff...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 15 Jul 1993 22:08:48 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes:

> with rgds to your prior mess regarding LRs.you may have blundered down 
> the trail in front of me but you most certainly did not forge a trail for 
> others but merely made it more of a challenge for the remaining vehicles 
> following.

        With all due respect I got stuck three times.  The first was when I
        waded into the mire at the base of the beaver dam to boost George
        after his 88 died for the nth time.  With the frame in nice thick
        sticky mud, I couldn't get a run at the rise overwhich you passed
        at great speed.

        The second time was when you directed me around Geouge in the pond
        and promptly placed me on some sunken fallen trees.  I was not
        stuck, and could have extracted myself, but for your efforts to
        surge me forward into a greater doom.  If you remember, I has water
        up to my shins as I winched myself out of your mess.

        The third time was a repeat of the first in the last swamp when I
        had to get George out yet again.  You seem to forget that at the
        second water hole (~100' long) I filled in many of the deeper ruts
        with rock that would have other wise put your right front wing
        completely under water.  Next time, I'll dig them deeper and see
        how well you do...  :-)

        We shall see how well you do on the 31st at the OVLR meet...

        Rgds,


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 44


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 16 22:21:23 1993
Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Safari?
From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 18:44:39 MDT
Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679

A quick question.  When folks refer to a 109" Safari model, I've always
assumed that this was just a normal 109" with a Safari roof.  But
something I read recently lead to me to believe that the Safari model
had other "options."  Is this true?

---
grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679



Message No 45


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 17 16:13:05 1993
Return-Path: <news@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu
From: rsrose@celia.caltech.edu (RANDY ROSE (818)395-3840)
Newsgroups: mlist.lro
Subject: New Member
Date: 17 Jul 1993 14:04 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

At my request, our site has subscribed to this list for a week now, and no
postings yet! (We can't have personal subscriptions to mailing lists, so the
this list is set up for campus wide distribution.  As there are three Land-Rover
owners on the CALTECH campus, this works out better.)  So, first this is a
test to see if this message posts, and secondly, this is to say hello and 
offer an introduction.

I've got a 1957 series I station wagon, which I have owned for about 6
years but has been running only in the last 2.  It came to me as a project, 
having no engine or transmission.  I was able to locate the original drive
train, but when found, had been in the rain for some time and was worthless.
What I did have on hand was a '58 sII engine, and "C" suffix gearbox, so in
it went.  I've tried to keep the truck as much original and "Rover" as 
possible.  The engine and gearbox went in without any modification to the
truck (although the "C" gearbox did need modification to the clutch housing
and throw-out mechanism to accomodate the Series I set-up).  The original 
radiator has been kept.  I've spent a lot of time finding and using the 
original switches, guages, and hardware to keep the truck as consistent
as practical to original or "stock".  The thing isn't pretty--I haven't
painted it, and it's kind of ugly anyway--but the drivetrain has been gone
through and mechanically it is fit.  The engine has 15,000 on the rebuild,
which I managed myself, and I'm happy with the whole thing so far.  It gets
almost daily use.

Pasadena is about 20 minutes from down town Los Angeles, and this area
of California has a lot to offer within a few hours of travel: some fairly
empty deserts, and mountain terrain.

Hope to write to some of you later.

Regards,

Randy Rose
California Institute of Technology
332-92
Pasadena, CA 91125
(818)395-3840
rsrose@iago.caltech.edu



Message No 46


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 22:01:03 1993
Return-Path: <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>
To: LRO@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: Rally@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: caloccia@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: No List Admin activity until August
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 93 22:53:42 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>


Hey folks,

   I'm gone (mostly) until the beginning of August, so ADDs, DROPs, etc.
won't be done until I get back to Wormtown*.

   As I type this, I am in Tokyo, after work I'm going to try and find the
nearest Honda dealer with a Discovery-Tdi.  I still haven't figured out
where the  F-1  track is, but then I've only been here a couple hours.

  'til later, 
    Bill

   * worm as in Worm gears, not earth worm.

	--bill	wpc@caloccia.net	caloccia@Stratus.Com

        N   R  1  3     2   H		"Land Rover's first, becuase
        |   +--|--|     |   |            Land Rovers last."  '69 Mk.IIa 88"
        OD     2  4     4   L		land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net



Message No 47


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 22:58:19 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Safari?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 22:04:33 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) writes:

> A quick question.  When folks refer to a 109" Safari model, I've always
> assumed that this was just a normal 109" with a Safari roof.  But
> something I read recently lead to me to believe that the Safari model
> had other "options."  Is this true?

        What source are you using?  This designation must be pertaining to
        a particular year, as a quick look through my material does not
        show a seperate "Safari" model beyond the safari roof that both the
        88 and 109 carried on some models.  There are several variants of
        the 109 model, though the only one that was ideal for "safari" (and
        desert) work was the "Suntrekker" conversion from the mid 1960's
        that is distinguished by having a pair of rear axles.

        Could you provide more detail?

        Rgds,

        Dixon
        '64 109


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 48


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 18 23:11:09 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: New Member
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 18 Jul 1993 21:58:14 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

rsrose@celia.caltech.edu (RANDY ROSE (818)395-3840) writes:

> At my request, our site has subscribed to this list for a week now, and no
> postings yet! So, first this is a test to see if this message posts, and
> secondly, this is to say hello and offer an introduction.

        Greetings.  First, welcome to the list.  There are a fair number of
        subscribers to this list, all widely distributed.  As you can see,
        your message got out, and as for the no postings, I think that
        there has been eight or nine messages since last Sunday.  Volume
        here tends to fluctuate, and right now seems to be ebbing a bit.
        Not to worry, it does pick up at times... :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon
        '64 109 Station Wagon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 49


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 19 03:32:06 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Safaris
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 9:24:24 BST

Land Rover never called it a Safari at all,they prefered the name
Station Wagon.It is an 88" or 109" with tropical roof,four doors
(109" only,88" had two)and a door at the back instead of top and
bottom tailgate.This back door is now commonly known as a "Safari
Door".It has side windows at the back which slide to open.Also has
rear seats.The 109" is the most common from what I can see,but 88"
can be seen.They were available in petrol and diesel form,and the
109" also had a 2.6 petrol option.
Clear as mud?
Cheers
Mike Rooth
PS Welcome from over here Randy



Message No 50


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 19 11:54:48 1993
Return-Path: <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> 
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Springs...
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:46:56 PDT
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

Well, last weekend I decided to do something about my rear springs.  I settled
down with a box of tools and a lot of WD40.  Surprizingly enough, 7 of the 8
U bolt nuts came off easily (a 2 foot lever arm and some strength helped). 
Just to show who was boss the other nut stripped and I'll hacksaw off that 
Ubolt later.  
	When I got the left spring off, I found out why I had that list to 
port.  The main leaf was busted right under the axle.  To make matters worse,
two owners ago, rewolded the frame and put new spring mounts on.  I spent 
Saturday going from Ford to GM to Jeep asking, if the spring was one of 
theirs.  The best guess is that it is off of an old 1.5 ton GM truck.  This 
rear spring is a 6 leaf monster.
	Hopefully, I can get some local guy to make me a new leaf and re-arc
these springs.  And get this all done by friday so I can go out driving by
the Salton Sea, CA.

	I had an interesting experience a few weeks ago in Nyack, NY (30 miles
or so north of New York City).  Theres a guy on Main street, just past Broadway,
that restores Land Rovers (in addition to other cars).  It was the SIIb on the
street that caught my attention.  He has about 11 Land Rovers, mostly 88s in
various condition.  Unfortunately he was trying to sell the SIIb to someone,
so I couldn't get his card.
	has anyone heard of, or done business with this guy? 


-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88



Message No 51


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:14:36 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: With regards to unknown springs etc.
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:08:46 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


I think you will find American spring stock is considerably thicker that 
the original LR stuff which results in much stiffer ride.  Great for 
carrying loads, but uncomfortable.  Trust me, I've done it...

Regards,

Ted

--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 52


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:29:12 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud...
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 22:15:50 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs, 
etc., this was a tactical error on my part.  However, it did work in my 
favour.  I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which 
is exactly where you would have been.

Your pathetic rock filling effort was a waste as I am certain I would 
have walked through anyway with the Land Rover.

As for getting mired winching George's 88 one must remember to look out 
for number one first.  Perhaps if you were more strategically  positioned 
this may not have happened.

On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your 
new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have 
repaired your beast by such time.  Remember, you broke your frame in the 
same mud miring areas where I sailed through without incident.

Wallow in the mud Dixon.

See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out).

Regards,

Ted

--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 53


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 03:29:13 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Safari information...
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Mon, 19 Jul 1993 21:55:19 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

 
Let me add my two pence. or cents, to what Dixon and Mike have to say...
 
I believe Dixon is correct in calling it a safari although 109's were 
available without a tropical roof.  There is a 109, or 88 Station Wagon, 
as well there is, or was an 88 or 109 Safari designation..  The 
difference lies in tropical roof panel *and* alpine windows.  In North 
America I have seen 88 Station Wagons with seats and sliding windows, but 
without the tropical roof.  I have not seen 109 Station Wagons (five 
door) without the tropical roof and alpine windows.  However, I believe 
in the parts manual there are separate listings for each.
 
Regards

Ted


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 54


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 20 06:16:28 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Safari or not
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 12:07:12 BST

We evidently have some confusion here.This is IMO based on two
things.Land Rovers exports,and semantics.
Over here,the station Wagon *is* the Safari,both 88 and 109.
It has all the trimmings.If it hasnt got all the trimmings,it aint
a Safari.On the home market,Land Rover didnt call it a Safari,just
the Station Wagon.In fact,I beleive they got almost huffy if you
*did* call it a Safari.
It seems though that what was exported a)Was called a Safari,and
b)Wasnt what *we* would call one.
I personally have never seen a Station Wagon without the tropical
roof,but *have* seen "blind" hardtops with it.And the Alpine windows.
I suppose the answer is that if you wanted it,and Land Rover made it
you could order what you liked.And since,as Dixon says they are full
size Meccano sets,that is what oyu got.Confusing,isnt it?
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 55


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 04:59:53 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: With regards to unknown springs etc.
To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:49:08 BST
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
In-Reply-To: <aTRy7B2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Ted Rose" at Jul 19, 93 10:08 pm
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Ted Rose writes:


> I think you will find American spring stock is considerably thicker that 
> the original LR stuff which results in much stiffer ride.  Great for 
> carrying loads, but uncomfortable.  Trust me, I've done it...

Good grief, that must be a _really hard_ ride.  I find the standard SWB springs
to hard and am going to fit military 5 and 7 leafers.

I am presuming the softer spinging will help off road - any views/experience?

Cheers,
Steve.  V8 AP



Message No 56


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 17:18:13 1993
Return-Path: <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> 
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: springs 
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:07:37 PDT
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

  After looking around various places, I've dertermined that the springs
I have are off a Chevy Blazer or Suburban.  Yes the ride is a bit stiff,
but I'm used to it.  Since the car was an east coast car, I was informed
by a guy who rebuilds springs that they are completely shot.  He can build
me new springs for $230 each.  Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each.
Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current
spring mounts and put on Rover springs.  (Especially since at last look RN
had springs for $155 each.)
  Sooner or later I'll get the Rover back on the road.  I guess this is what
happens when your only car is an old Rover.

-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88



Message No 57


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 18:07:32 1993
Return-Path: <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> 
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: springs 
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:07:37 PDT
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

  After looking around various places, I've dertermined that the springs
I have are off a Chevy Blazer or Suburban.  Yes the ride is a bit stiff,
but I'm used to it.  Since the car was an east coast car, I was informed
by a guy who rebuilds springs that they are completely shot.  He can build
me new springs for $230 each.  Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each.
Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current
spring mounts and put on Rover springs.  (Especially since at last look RN
had springs for $155 each.)
  Sooner or later I'll get the Rover back on the road.  I guess this is what
happens when your only car is an old Rover.

-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88



Message No 58


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 22:17:03 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:39:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes:

> In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs,
> etc., this was a tactical error on my part.  However, it did work in my 
> favour.  I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which 
> is exactly where you would have been.

        A tactical error eh...  That can be construed as an understatement.
        You were not in water that lapped halfway up my shins as I sat in
        the 109 steering & winching through the mosquito infested mire.
        'Tis a favour I hope to return in the near future when we go down
        the new trail beside the beaver pond.  You shall go ahead this time
        I hope, as with the 200 feet of one and a half inch hawser, my reach
        at getting you unstuck is greatly increased.

        Yes, I do agree, I should look out for number one first.  I shall
        pay strict attention to this detail where your Series III is
        concerned.  However, how should I react when I sit and watch you
        nearly roll your little pet as you did trying to get up the rock
        face?  I know attacking it at an angle is a novel approach, though
        completely loony if you ask me...

> On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your 
> new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have 
> repaired your beast by such time.

        It shall be repaired.  A 1/8" thick sheet of plate steel has been
        obtained, and the creation of a new outrigger shall commence this
        coming Saturday.

> Wallow in the mud Dixon.
> See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out).

        You wish...  I'm going to bring a camera this time, and if you
        embarrass yourself, rest assured the proof shall be a GIF on
        hoosier before the week is out...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 59


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 22:35:19 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Safari or not
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:24:05 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

> We evidently have some confusion here.This is IMO based on two
> things.Land Rovers exports,and semantics.

        Which is why we are having fun over this...  :-)

> Over here,the station Wagon *is* the Safari,both 88 and 109.
> It has all the trimmings.If it hasnt got all the trimmings,it aint
> a Safari.On the home market,Land Rover didnt call it a Safari,just
> the Station Wagon.

        Ahh, thus the other version would be the straight Hard Top, though
        it lacks the tropical roof, sliding windows and rear seats.  I do
        believe however that the 110 did come as a Station Wagon, but
        lacked the tropical roof, though had the other extra items.

        While the discussion is interesting, unfortunately there is
        probably no resolution to the debate.  BL/JRT/RG etc doesn't even
        know what nuts and bolts they used in various spots on the LR in
        the past, don't have a clue to what they produced over the various
        ranges of their cars, so that they might know what they produced
        outside of raw numbers for the Land Rover is open to debate.  An
        example would be with the TR-7/8 series where Rover denied ever
        using some ranges of serial numbers (stated on their letterhead
        too), yet I have actually seen cars with serial numbers in those
        ranges. Go figure...

        So no one has any comments on the FAQ table of contents?  I guess
        I'll post it in ten, or so, parts in the next few days for a more
        detailed critique...  900 lines and counting, still under the 1,000
        RFC822 limit.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 60


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 21 23:04:46 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: In regards to Dixons claims in mud...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:39:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) writes:

> In regards to you claiming that I hopelessly bogged you upon the logs,
> etc., this was a tactical error on my part.  However, it did work in my 
> favour.  I did not have a 109 lodged in the trail in front of me, which 
> is exactly where you would have been.

        A tactical error eh...  That can be construed as an understatement.
        You were not in water that lapped halfway up my shins as I sat in
        the 109 steering & winching through the mosquito infested mire.
        'Tis a favour I hope to return in the near future when we go down
        the new trail beside the beaver pond.  You shall go ahead this time
        I hope, as with the 200 feet of one and a half inch hawser, my reach
        at getting you unstuck is greatly increased.

        Yes, I do agree, I should look out for number one first.  I shall
        pay strict attention to this detail where your Series III is
        concerned.  However, how should I react when I sit and watch you
        nearly roll your little pet as you did trying to get up the rock
        face?  I know attacking it at an angle is a novel approach, though
        completely loony if you ask me...

> On the thirty first, a new trail will be blazed and with any luck your 
> new found mud miring techniques will be put to the test assuming you have 
> repaired your beast by such time.

        It shall be repaired.  A 1/8" thick sheet of plate steel has been
        obtained, and the creation of a new outrigger shall commence this
        coming Saturday.

> Wallow in the mud Dixon.
> See you there (probably towing you, George, and others out).

        You wish...  I'm going to bring a camera this time, and if you
        embarrass yourself, rest assured the proof shall be a GIF on
        hoosier before the week is out...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 61


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 03:31:39 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Springs easy on the bum
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 9:18:48 BST

Steve wonders whether soft springs are better off road.perhaps a 
comment made to me by an ex-army sergeant of my aquaintance may
be relevant.He is a great Land Rover fan,and when I asked him
his views on the current coil spring army vehicles he said "they
are too comfortable".Which being translated meant that his squaddies
drove them too fast off road and broke them.Regularly.The Lightwieghts
would have reached the limit of crew endurance long before they broke.
Draw your own conclusions.Mine is that you just cant win!
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 62


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 10:09:18 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:56:30 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: British Rovers, Inc. flyer


Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/
Atlantic British Parts of CA.  Anyone know about either of these
outfits (not mentioned in the list)?  They're offering things like
rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for
$250, etc.  Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.]
nothing for others.  Order number for the interested 800.327.6837.

Monty



Message No 63


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 11:39:55 1993
Return-Path: <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Date: 22 Jul 1993 09:28:27 -0700
From: Paul Anderson                                    <ACUS05@waccvm.corp.mot.com>
To: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
Cc: <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/07/22 15:20:45 UT from (BRANDENBERG) Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out"
Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer

brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com (Monty) writes:

>Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/
>Atlantic British Parts of CA.  Anyone know about either of these
>outfits (not mentioned in the list)?  They're offering things like
>rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for
>$250, etc.  Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.]
>nothing for others.  Order number for the interested 800.327.6837.

Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032.

*============================================================================*
*                                *    __________                             *
* Paul Anderson                  *   /          \___   Exceptional Vehicles  *
*   ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM   *  :__Range_Rover__:        are for         *
*                                *     (_)      (_)    Exceptional People|   *
*============================================================================*



Message No 64


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 11:57:05 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:47:18 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer


>>Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/
>>Atlantic British Parts of CA.  Anyone know about either of these
>>outfits (not mentioned in the list)?  They're offering things like
>>rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for
>>$250, etc.  Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.]
>>nothing for others.  Order number for the interested 800.327.6837.
>
>Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032.
>

I deal with RN and I don't think this is RN, is it?  They are both
in VT but this new one has prices that are significantly lower than
RN on their specials.  So, are you saying they're the same or that
one should stay away from British Rovers?

monty



Message No 65


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 12:33:06 1993
Return-Path: <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Date: 22 Jul 1993 10:20:22 -0700
From: Paul Anderson                                    <ACUS05@waccvm.corp.mot.com>
To: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@3d.enet.dec.com>
Cc: <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/07/22 17:10:14 UT from (BRANDENBERG) Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out"
Subject: Re: British Rovers, Inc. flyer

>>>Received one of the mentioned flyers yesterday from British Rovers/
>>>Atlantic British Parts of CA.  Anyone know about either of these
>>>outfits (not mentioned in the list)?  They're offering things like
>>>rear springs for the 88 at $119.95, cylinder head rebuild kits for
>>>$250, etc.  Some parts are advertised as Genuine [Girline, Warn, etc.]
>>>nothing for others.  Order number for the interested 800.327.6837.
>>
>>Personally, call Rovers North at (802) 879-0032.
>>
>
>I deal with RN and I don't think this is RN, is it?  They are both
>in VT but this new one has prices that are significantly lower than
>RN on their specials.  So, are you saying they're the same or that
>one should stay away from British Rovers?

British Rovers/Atlantic British Parts of CA is the west coast arm of
Atlantic British Ltd in Mechanicville, NY.  They are competitors of
Rovers North (RN).

Not to go into to detail, I will not use Atlantic British due to past
screw ups on mine and acquaintances' orders.

Paul



Message No 66


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 22 20:39:51 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: springs 
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:07:46 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes:

> me new springs for $230 each.  Chevy will sell me the springs for $301 each.
> Now I'm thinking about having the guys at British Pacific cut off the current
> spring mounts and put on Rover springs.  (Especially since at last look RN
> had springs for $155 each.)

        Springs from Merseyside are the following:  (in pounds)

        Front swb petrol                24.90
        Front swb diesel                28.90
        Front lwb petrol                28.90
        Front lwb diesel                28.90
        Rear swb                        34.90
        Rear lwb (standard)             34.90
        Rear lwb (heavy duty)           34.90

        A pound is running approx $2Cdn, so multiple the above prices by
        about 1.7 to get the US dollar price.  A quick fax to Merseyside
        will get you the shipping costs.  This is the cheapest way to go
        methinks.  If you do decide to go this route, make sure you specify
        that you have a NADA (North American Dollar Area) vehicle.  The
        springs between British (lhd) and North American (rhd) vehicles
        *are* different.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 67


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 00:27:39 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca
Subject: OVLR July Newsletter
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 00:15:29 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


                      OTTAWA VALLEY LAND ROVERS

         1016 NORMANDY CRESCENT, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA  K2C OL4

                                                      5 July 1993

G'day eh:

        In the beginning--in rained......
        At the going down of the sun--it rained....
        But in between---IT WAS MARVELLOUS.

So went the kick-off to OVLR's 10th anniversary celebrations as nearly 50
members, their families and friends mingled with Land Rovers of many vintages
and conditions at "Doc" Dolan's getaway near A]monte over the June l9th
weekend.

Overall, it was a good beginning to our year-long celebrations marking a
decade of Land Rover activities. We saw the appearance of the first annual
"Saab pulling contest", the largest Land Rover turnout and a major fireworks
display that was actually planned that way.

Things began Friday afternoon with the advance team of Mike McDermott and Bob
Wood pulling through the mist into the high meadow at Dolan's. After a quick
walk about in the tall grass to find the perfect flat spot---then realizing
they should have put their wet suits on BEFORE they left the trucks--the
soggy pair set up the kitchen trailer and retired to Bob's tent for a little
warming libation. That set the trend for the weekend and, before their little
bums had a chance to dry, they were joined by Don Watson and Gabby from
Wingham, Bates and his clan and the lovely and charming Fred Joyce, winner of
this year's Lugnut Award.

As the sky began to clear Friday night, the group was invaded by a ba-zillion
mosquitos. The smoke pots and repellent came out but, after putting up a
brave front, the mildewed band soon headed for the security of their tents
and a good night's sleep.

Saturday morning came warm and sunny--not a mosquito in sight--and, as coffee
spread  through  stiff  limbs,  the  pristine  shape  of  Murray  Jackson's
Lightweight hove into sight with Bruce Ricker in close pursuit. Harry and Lyn
rumbled in with all the fixings for Saturday's banquet. Jason Dowell dragged
a house trailer behind his GM tow-horse while his trusty 88 arrived
separately. Charlie and Pam Haigh drove from Vermont with a 109 load of
birthday presents from Rovers North.   They were followed closely by Dave
Davey and Nancy representing the Series One Club and Richard and Pat Owens in
their Volvo-powered 109 wagon.

And so it went with Land Rovers  trundling into camp all morning amid
handshakes and hugs and giggles all round until event co-ordinator Ted Rose
welcomed all and announced it was time for a little off-roading.  To say the
course was a little muddy, is to say the ocean is a little moist. The wettest
spring in memory had dissolved what, in drier years, had humorously been
called a road and the Land Rovers spent the afternoon doing the "Warwickshire
Wallow" .

Another Land Rover was summoned from camp and, after a little winching from
the "dry side", the mud-caked warriors returned triumphant  to the strains of
Mozart wafting over barbecued chicken and ribs. Class act.  Casualties were
light: Sean McGuire's squeaky clean bottom half when Fred Joyce dragged him
from the cab into the mire and Bate's recent Tremclad paint job when "Sally",
his 107,  became stuck and Al felt the need to discipline her with the
application of a rock to several parts of her long-suffering body panels.

After dinner it was time to relax a little, chat with the neighbours and let
the day's events mellow in the mind.   Well, almost.   An audible "whump"
announced the beginning of the bonfire as Bob Wood overcame the natural
reluctance of wet firewood to ignite with a generous application of high-
test.   As  the surrounding trees vaporized and a mushroom-shaped cloud
staggered into the heavens, Bob and his black-faced accomplices clawed their
way up the crater walls and the party began.

After a little socializing, an embarrassing sing-a-long attempt and some
marshmallow incineration,  it was time for the fireworks.  It only seemed
natural that a man who has blown up everything from power tools, to old meat,
set fire to acetylene tanks, his trusty Land Rover and himself and makes more
noise sleeping than a moose in heat, should handle the fireworks. Actually,
to the disappointment of the more cynical among us who have seen Bates at his
bungling best, only the fireworks exploded and burned this time.  It was a
good show and ended to the tune of Happy Birthday sung from the gallery
surrounding the fire pit. Even Sally, who acted as table and rocket launcher,
escaped any serious damage.

As the fireworks subsided the homebodies headed for their tents and the hard-
bodies repaired to the 88 pick-up of George Kearney where lurked a mega-litre
keg of ice-cold beer.

Talk soon turned to Land Rover's legendary pulling power and before anyone
could say "drop a cog and stomp it Gertrude",  a four-door Saab--"sans
wheels"--was pressed into service as a drag sled. After several roars around
the track--which unfortunately coincided with the campsite--the competitors
came to the conclusion that maybe midnight tractor pulls were not the best
way to win friends and influence people and headed for the showers.

Sunday morning came slowly into focus for many celebrants and more than one
mumbled complaints about the racket the breeze was making in the poplar
trees. Several even missed the club breakfast--sausages, eggs, homefries,
toast, fruit juice, coffee--opting instead for a closer relationship with the
port-a-potty.

All were up later however to hear President Yves talk about the club's first
decade and the journey from a small group of friends who shared a love for
Britain's most famous vehicle to Canada's largest, oldest and most successful
Land Rover organization.

Pam Haigh, whose husband Charlie runs the mechanical end of Rovers North,
presented Yves with a T-shirt for his presidential body and a super water
container for the club trailer.  Then she unloaded a pile of gifts from the
RN warehouse and "Crazy Al the auctioneer" went to work flinging gaskets,
wipers, oil filters, note pads, frisbees, mugs and mystery prizes into the
crowd. In all, we collected $48 before giving the rest of the stuff away.

Then it was time for the official photo and 16 Land Rovers--and one Range
Rover--lined up with their keepers to pose for history and a guaranteed place
in the planned anniversary yearbook.

With clouds moving in, people began folding their tents, looking for keys and
kids and saying their goodbyes. When the rain finally returned by late
afternoon only the cleanup crew remained loading up the kitchen trailer and
burning the garbage. An hour later they too were gone and the mist was alone
again in the high meadow.

Special thanks to Ted Rose for co-ordinating the anniversary party, Harry and
Lyn for their cooking skills, Bates for the auction, the fireworks and for
not blowing us all to hell, Mark and Andrea Letorney of Rovers North for
their generosity,  Pam and Charlie for trucking the loot up here, Murray
Jackson for offering to lead the Ottawa convoy to the party, Bob, Fred,
Bates, Mike and President Yves for cleanup, Jason and Jerry Dowell and Roy
Bailie for port-a-potty patrol, George for organizing the beer keg and Mike
and Pat Dolan, basking under the depleted ozone in Saudi Arabia, for the use
of their fabulous party place. Come home soon Doc. It just ain't the same
without ya......

Editors Note:  My thanks to Mike McD for contributing the above article and
for the pictures that follow.

                   [Photo]                            Pam Haigh bearing
                                                      gifts from
                                                      Rovers North Limited

                 [Photo]                     Roy Bailie on the
                                             Throne of Ireland

 The Club Trailer....           [Photo]

=============================================================================
THE JULY EXECUTIVE MEETING....With the strains of "Hearts of Oak"  in the
background the meeting was chaired by VP Harry Bligh at the RCN Naval
Association....Fred Barrett  informed the  Prez.  he  is unable to act as
secretary. Jerry Dowell was appointed to fill the position for the remainder
of Fred's term...."Doc" Dolan will be asked if OVLR can erect a permanent
potty at the Birthday Party site for the benefit of those with weak kidneys
and loose bowels...In future all events will have a chairman appointed by and
responsible to the executive....An Executive Committee has been set up to
review the legal status of OVLR...

The Executive is now as follows: Prez. Yves Fortin, V.Prez Harry Bligh, Sec.
Jerry Dowell and Treas. Tom Mayor

NEXT EXECUTIVE MEETING...Sassy Saddle Restaurant, Stitsville Flea Market,
West on Hazeldean Road, Tuesday, 3 Aug 7:30 pm  (613) 836-2454

CLUB EVENTS...

JULY...Off Road weekend organized by Ted Rose at "Doc" Dolan's farm
31 July, 9:00 am.  Meet at Shoppers City West 8:00 am, near the Beer Store
Contact Ted Rose (613) 256-1598.

AUGUST...OVRL Breakfast at Victoria Island, Organized by Al (Bates) Pilgrim
and Yves Fortin, 14 August, 9:00 am. $3.00/person. Want to help?  Call Bates
(613)  731-6616

OCTOBER....Frame Oiler, Organized by Roy Bailie, 23 October, 8:00 am, Want to
help  Call Roy Bailey (613) 523-5740

=============================================================================
NEWS...FOR SALE.... EVENTS....ETC...

HONDA.... announced it will buy Land Rover Discovery sport utility vehicles
and market them under the Crossroad name through their Verno distribution
organization in Japan. Honda expects to sell 1,000 vehicles a year.  The
Discovery is currently sold in Japan by Land Rover at ~3.85 million (yen) /
$46 000 a copy.

FOR SALE - 1974 Ser III 88",  rebuilt engine  (1,500 miles),  good frame,
overdrive, well maintained. $4,500 / offers David Bateman (514) 481-3152.

FOR SALE - Two, 1956, 109, Cab and Box Land Rovers, Front mount mechanical
winch also many miscellaneous parts. $1,500 for the works.
Mubarulk Carroll, (705) 841-2560

FOR SALE - 1967 Ser. IIA diesel pick-up, many extra parts. US $5800, Fred
(407) 267-7376

WELCOME... to new members Frank Herock and Robert St. Louis

BRITISH INVASION WEEKEND...Stowe Vermont 17, 18 and 19 September.
All sorts of British stuff including Land Rovers

============================================================================
GENERAL SERVICE .........................................By Robin Craig

The last month has been very busy and, so, this page will be full.

First up:   Land Rover have returned to the big screen.  In CLIFFHANGER,
Sylvester Stallone does us proud by driving a series 3 109 station wagon.
The vehicle looks standard, although the engine sounded more powerful than
the conventional four-cylinder. I offer two possible explanations for this.
First, perhaps a sound bank provided a generic "truck type" engine noise for
the film's sound track.   Second, since filming happened in Colorado, the
vehicle may have a Chevy transplant or even a Rover 6 cylinder.  It is great
to see Land Rovers in the movies again.

Recently,  the good people at Rovers North have gained a diesel 90 from
Germany, another addition to the ex-military vehicles they have owned or
sold.  No doubt, Mark Letorney and crew will put it to work along side the
101 FC.  Have fun with Your new toy, guys!

Talking of 90's:  Numerous rumours are coming from the UK about their future.
Some concern a new vehicle possibly called Challenger and based on the 90
series but with a cut-down Discovery body.  I doubt that the vehicle will be
called "Challenger," mainly because it is the name of the British Army's main
battle tank.   It could be the project name,  though:  remember that the
Discovery project was called "JAY."  Finally, manufacturing of the 90 may
change this fall, since a monocoque-bodied 90, perhaps with a Discovery-type
front end,  could be launched.   Since monocoque body panels are welded
together instead of being bolted together, as is more usual, aligning them is
easier, and assembly quicker.

Several people report that the 90's destined for North America have gone down
the production line at Solihull.  My own source says that as of 22 June they
had not; but anything can happen in a week.

Some of you on the mailing list of Crown Assets in Edmonton may not have
received anything for a while.   According to David Lowe  (Daphne to his
friends), if you do not enter a bid on any lot in three consecutive tenders,
then your name drops from the list.  David says the way he gets around this
by writing a letter stating "no bids at this time."   Crown Assets lists
vehicles in lots and sells them by tender.  Should you contact the address
below, state that you are interested in all wheeled and tracked vehicles:
     Supply and Services Canada
     Crown Assets Distribution Centre
     15508 114 Avenue
     Edmonton, Alberta  T5M 3S8    FAX  (403) 495 3399
David says the rules have been relaxed for the last couple of tenders.  For
whzt was offered were well-cannibalised 90 and 110  frames,  and it was
ridiculous to require that this material be exported from the country.  In
fact,  the last batch aroused so little interest that the whole lot was
reported sold for only $6000!

Marco, recently the editor of the Toronto-area club's newsletter, is now out
in British Columbia, about to go to UBC.  His original intention to plant
trees for the cash took a different route, as it were.  Joining a planting
outfit, he found that their domestic 4 X 4's had trouble getting their loads
of seedlings up the slopes and goat paths of the clear cuts.  Since Marco
owns an ex-military series 3 109 FFR, his boss has him transport seedlings
with it. The 109 is doing sterling service.  On the other hand, Marco says he
has now become tired of off-road driving!

Our intrepid Albertan club member Alex (call me Bodger) Heath is at it again.
He managed a good look around the British base at Wainright and even test
drove a 110 Defender arctic spec.  He comments only that wind-down windows
look out of place on a military Land Rover.  He did like the cab's sunroof,
which is in fact an escape hatch, for times the vehicle gets caught in snow
drifts!

Alex has also found an old NADA 109 station wagon with a damaged limited slip
differential.   lf you have replacement parts or know where to get them,
please contact me or call Alex direct at 1 403 842 2955, evenings.

My thanks to Dale Desprey for recently aiding a fellow club member's wife,
who had a machine stuck nose first in some bushes.  Thanks, Dale.

I have received the good news that a contact in DND will give me pictures of
Simon Skuse's two 101 FC's under evaluation by the Canadian Forces in 1972/3.
For those of you who are unaware, it has taken nearly four years of struggle
to get photos.  More later.

That is all for this month.............................Robin (613) 738-7880


Message No 68


From the Newsletter Editor, Cheers.............David Meadows (613) 599-8746

============================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 69


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 03:05:55 1993
Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Safari?
From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 18:00:36 MDT
Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679

Sorry, I was out of town longer than I thought I would be.  It's rather
rude to post a question and then not respond to the kind replies.

What piqued my interest about "Safaris" in the first place was a brief
passage in a very old back-issue of an automotive magazine that I
glanced at in the barber shop.  It seemed to suggest that there was a
special Safari model of Land Rover that included the tropical roof,
"modified" rear windows, and a single bench seat in the back (as opposed
to the two along the sides).

Unfortunately, the reference was vague, and I didn't get a chance to go
back and read it again after I'd been shorn.

Thanks to those who cleared things up a bit.

---
grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson)
The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679



Message No 70


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 13:07:49 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 17:54:22 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Merseyside springs


Dixon quoted you some nice spring prices (in pounds)-but don't forget
to add the import tax (I think it may be nearly 17%...I recently ordered
some fishing bits from an outfit in england and was surprised to find
the added duty was sooo high...don't you canadians have to pay this
as well??)

rdushin/nigel (who is a NON-tropical NON-alpine windowed blindsider)



Message No 71


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 13:52:54 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 18:40:03 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Nyack guy


Ben-

The guy in Nyack is John Womack (spelling?).  In the good old days he was
the service rep for LRNA for the northeastern area (I am not sure that there
was an official service rep designation..but for the purposes of this note
"service rep" fits his description).  He was LRNA's northeastern "field
mechanic"..that is to say, if you had a problem with your LR he'd come to
your place and fix it for ya.  Although I was but a tike in those days, I
can vaguely remember him coming to our house to tune our old '60 '88 softop
(rolled in an accident while towing wood for a barn that has since collapsed,
and replaced by a '67 '88 softop that has since been converted into a NON-
tropical NON-alpine windowed "no longer sliding" windowed hardtop but still
runs and works hard just the same).  John is quite the character.  He speaks
with the thickest of british accents interrupted by a consistent-every two
second or fifth syllabel (whichever comes first)-studder.  His sentances are
oftimes begun and ended with a "badeeba bdde badeeba" which actually makes
him more easily understood (you can thereby figure out where the last 
thought ended and the next one begins).  My "sig other" and I stopped in
(I live and work nearby, sorta) about a year ago (I have been back a few
times since to chat rovers) and we talked for about an hour or more about
those good old days.  He was delighted and excited to see me and recalled
those times fixing our '60 amidst horse shit, flys, and little naked kids 
(ie me and my siblings).  He proudly displayed the ID badges from several
rovers that had been owned by others in the town I grew up in (garrison, ny)
and showed me the (remains of) the vehicles owned by people who've since
moved away........cars I used to drip ice cream on, wipe my snot on, and
play around at horse shows, etc. Upon leaving, my "sig other" (who patiently
listened throughout the event-fortunately, she has a cursory interest in
rovers herself) asked "did you understand ANYTHING he said???".  She was
apparently lost throughout, but I had mastered the "catch every fifth word
and extract the meaning of the sentance from there" technique of following
just what it was he was saying to me.

Surprisingly, John is still in the rover business.  As you pointed out,
he does have (and work on) other cars (mostly british...some rovers and
older jags strew his lot), but his true love lies in the big beast of
aluminium.  Although I have not personally used him for mechanical work
(do it all myself-along with the rest of us) I have managed to get some
used bits from him (although I sense he likes to keep them around for 
spares) from time to time.  He does do some resto work (sans painting,
I believe....he is another of us "just drive it and keep it dirty" types
and sees no need for the pristine) and is willing to sell any complete
rovers on his lot (for a price).

If any other of you netters is ever in the metro-NY area a trip to Nyack
for a classic "Womack experience" is highly recommended.  So long as he
is in a good mood and has time to spare, a solid hour or more of roveresque
conversation is guaranteed (just remeber to bring your interpreter).

Cheers all,

rdushin/nige/the roach



Message No 72


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 14:11:38 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 19:00:39 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: springs


Ben-

did you consider the possiblility that the springs you've got are off of
a Toyota Land Cruiser (god forbid).  they can be used, but you are
"supposed" to remove one leaf first (you are really SUPPOSED to use
the genuine brit bit, though)....perhaps the previous owner did not.

also, i am a bit confused about the welding that was done, and am not
sure you've got a real rover to compare it to (do you??).  Note that
you need the two pairs of plates to hold the shackle pins to the
springs/frame ("shackle plates"???  mounting brackets??)...if someone
did a REAL botch job on it, they may well have left them off (for
supreme comfort, no doubt), which might leave you with the impression that
a rover spring won't fit.

hmmm,
rdushin/etc



Message No 73


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 16:49:45 1993
Return-Path: <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: springs 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 23 Jul 93 19:00:39 PST."
             <9307231900.AA11636@y1.sdsc.edu> 
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:42:38 PDT
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

rdushin writes:
> did you consider the possiblility that the springs you've got are off of
> a Toyota Land Cruiser (god forbid).  they can be used, but you are
> "supposed" to remove one leaf first (you are really SUPPOSED to use
> the genuine brit bit, though)....perhaps the previous owner did not.
	The Geology department at Caltech has a Land Cruiser and that was
the first thing that I checked.  I went to a spring rebuild place and they
measured the spring and declared that is was off a Chevy Blazer.  A quick 
trip to a Chevy dealer claimed that the same spring was used on their 
suburbans.

> also, i am a bit confused about the welding that was done, and am not
> sure you've got a real rover to compare it to (do you??).  Note that
> you need the two pairs of plates to hold the shackle pins to the
> springs/frame ("shackle plates"???  mounting brackets??)...if someone
> did a REAL botch job on it, they may well have left them off (for
> supreme comfort, no doubt), which might leave you with the impression that
> a rover spring won't fit.
	Two owners ago had his own welding show and rewelded large portions
of the frame.  He even cut off the Rover exhaust mounts and the axle stop
mounts on the frame.  On the rear end, he cut off the front mount of the rear
spring and welded on a wider mount.  On the back he welded two steel plates on
either side of the frame and drilled a hole in the plated for the shackel
bolt.  Thus the rear Rover spring mount is still there, just covered.
It looks like this:

       weld
       ***********       frame
------| \ /       |----------- (rear cross member)
      |  o        | <--Rover mount
      |       O   | <-new mount hole
      \__________/

Two owners ago also removed the rear crossmember and welded in place a
diamond plate bumper (which is quite handy).
	I'm haveing the guys at British Pacific remove the current mount and
fix or put in a new spring mount.  Labor+Rover Parts is not much more than two
new Chevy springs and Ubolts.  If I know how to weld, I'd be temped to do it
my self.  
	The worst part about all of this is that I'm heading out to the Salton
Sea tonight to spend the weekend offRoading in the desert sans Rover.  


Ben Smith
ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
1972 SIII 88 Land Rover



Message No 74


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 23 17:32:26 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 22:23:13 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: oh well


>The worst part about all of this is that I'm heading out to the Salton
Sea tonight to spend the weekend offRoading in the desert sans Rover.

things could be worse you know.......you could be stuck inside writing
reports and book chapters that have impending deadlines.  my rover will
be idle this weekend as well.

rdushin



Message No 75


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 00:25:24 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Merseyside springs
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 17:58:55 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes:

> Dixon quoted you some nice spring prices (in pounds)-but don't forget
> to add the import tax (I think it may be nearly 17%...I recently ordered
> some fishing bits from an outfit in england and was surprised to find
> the added duty was sooo high...don't you canadians have to pay this
> as well??)

        There is no duty to pay on parts coming into Canada for vehicles
        that are consider antiques.  To qualify, your vehicle must be 25
        years old, or older.  Of course, as British parts are exchangable
        <ahem>, and Brtitish cars 25+ years old qualifies for parts for
        your Land Rover.  You should check with US Customs to see if the
        same applies for the USA.

> rdushin/nigel (who is a NON-tropical NON-alpine windowed blindsider)

        Poor Nigel...  :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 76


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 03:07:25 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part one
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:53:46 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


                           LAND ROVER FAQ

last modified:  July 22, 1993
archive site:   /pub/sol/landrover.faq @ hoosier.cs.utah.edu

Original file: /pub/sol/landrover.ascii @ hoosier.cs.utah.edu
               by Teriann Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
modified by:   Dixon Kenner <dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>

=============================================================================
CONTENTS:

        1.      What is a Land Rover?
        2.      What Land Rovers were imported to North America?
                - Series I
                - Series II & IIA
                - Series III
        3.      Engines
                - Petrol (4 cylinder)
                - Diesel
                - Petrol (6 cylinder)
        4.      Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover
                - Checking under the Land Rover
                - Starting the engine
                - Test driving
                - Land Rover extras
                - Value
        5.      Specifications
                - General
                - Capacities (fluids)
        6.      Chassis numbering
        7.      Magazines & publications
        8.      Clubs
        9.      Parts
                - USA & Canada
                - Great Britain

=============================================================================
1.      WHAT IS A LAND ROVER

Land Rovers are true classic roadsters with a removable hard top (or
soft top) and removable metal side curtains.  Land Rovers have an
aluminum body with a steel frame, firewall and front (holds radiator).
The tops are bolted on. The front doors have side curtains that unbolt.
Full metal tops, pickup metal tops and canvas tops are available.  The
engine, while underpowered, has been described by pro mechanics as
seriously overbuilt.  The car was meant to survive the charge of a adult
bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a
screwdriver and a crescent wrench.

Land Rovers have more charisma in its lug nuts than most cars have in
their whole body. They are not very fast, don't have all the comforts
for a city new car driver and they are noisy inside.  If you get one,
you will have to deal with people going ga-ga over it in parking lots,
frequent honks from strangers and people staring at your car as they
drive past.  You also have to deal with people who think it is a
Japanese imitation Land Cruiser.  Not to worry, owning this khaki
coloured monster generates fierce loyalty and enthusias among the
converted.

=============================================================================
2.      WHAT LAND ROVERS WERE IMPORTED TO NORTH AMERICA

There are two common types of Land Rover in the United States, a third
more uncommon type in North America, and a fourth uncommon type in
Canada and the UK.  The common Land Rovers are the short wheel base
model 88 and the long wheel base model 109. The model 109 was imported
into the US until 1968.  The model 88 was imported until 1974. There
were older models but they are few in number and parts are difficult to
get. There are also newer models, but they were not imported to the US.

In 1992, a special version of the 110 Discovery was imported into North
America where 500 went to the United States, and 25 to Canada.

It is reported that 16,000 Land Rovers were imported into North America
when they were available for sale. Estimates of surviving vehicles range
from a low of 4,000 to a high of over 10,000.

        The 109 came in several versions, of which the two door (pickup)
        and four door (station wagon) are the most common.  The 109 2
        door has a 6 foot bed.  There is a rare model of four door 109
        called the Doormobile. It is the Land Rover camper.  It has a
        pop up top (like the VW van camper), refrigerator, sink, propane
        stove and other goodies.

            109 versions:  Regular with canvas top
                           Pick-up
                           Pick-up with 3/4 hood with side windows
                           Regular with hard top
                           Station Wagon (10 or 12 seater)
                           High capacity pick-up
                           Doormobile

        The swb, or 88 came as a two door pick-up, or the more common
        three door version.  Unlike the 109 Station Wagon, it is
        possible to remove the roof and windows of a swb to create a
        soft top version.

            88 versions:   Canvas top
                           Pick-up
                           Pick-up with 3/4 hood
                           Hard top with sliding side windows
                           Station wagon

        The third type is the 101 Forward Control.

        The fourth, uncommon type which can be found in Canada and the
        UK is the military lightweight.  This is the military version of
        the swb Land Rover, and despite the name, actually weighs more
        than a swb Land Rover, though narrower so to fit into an RAF
        Andover aircraft.

88 - 109 comparison: The 88 being lighter and having a shorter wheel
base, is a superior offroad car.  It doesn't get stuck as often and can
turn in almost half the radius of the 109.  Of course you can sleep
inside a 109 two door or doormobile.

There were three series of both models imported, series I (pre '58 hard
to get parts for (short wheelbase series I seen in "The Gods Must be
crazy)), Series II ('58-60), Series IIA ('61-'69 or '70 (earlier ones
have headlights inside wings, later ones have headlamps on wings)), and
Series III.  Most people prefer the IIA to the series III.

        Series I were produced from 1947 through 1957.  Wheelbases
        included the 80", 86", and 107".  The basic engine was the 2
        litre, four cylinder cross flow engine.  In 1956 the 88" was
        introduced, followed in 1958 by the 2 litre diesel and 109" lwb.

        Series II were produced from 1958 to 1961.  This saw the
        introduction of the 2.25 litre petrol engine.

        Series IIA were produced from 1961 until 1971 in both the 88 and
        109 inch wheelbases.  In 1962, the 2.25l diesel engine was
        introduced along with the Forward Control model.  In 1967 the
        2.6 litre, six cylinder engine was introduced for the 109
        Station Wagon, as well as the Series IIB 110 Forward Control
        model

                1967:  seperate wiper motors to single motor in dash.
                1969:  headlamps moved from centre radiator grill to wings

        Series III were produced from 1971 until the early 1980's.
        Imports into North America ceased in 1974.  The Series III saw
        the dash revised with black plastic, instruments moved from the
        centre of the fascia to a position in front of the driver.  The
        door and bonnet hinges are flatter than Series IIA. More hidden
        was the all-synchro gearbox that was introduced, an uprated
        clutch, modified brakes with new drums, re-routed brake pipes
        and servo-assisted brakes as standard on all Station Wagons.
        And there was the all plastic front grill...  In 1972 the V8 101
        Forward Control was introduced.

        Electrics are positive earth from 1947 until 1967 when they were
        changed over to negative earth.  (Note: a number of owners have
        changed their Land Rover from positive to negative earth, along
        with going from the dynamo/generator approach to an alternator.
        This should not effect the value.)

        Carberation was changed from the Solex to the Zenith in 1967.
        Parts and rebuild kits are difficult, if not impossible to
        obtain for the Solex.  The recommended carb. change when your
        Solex is worn is to change it to a Weber for increased gas
        milage and a few more horsepower.

TerriAnn notes:

I have no problems taking my LR on long trips and have on several
occasions been driving it 8 to 10 hours a day. It went car camping
between Monterey bay and Portland Or last year, and on several 200 - 300
mile trips.  This year I will take it back to Portland for the Portland
all British car meet and to the LA area for the national Dairy goat
show.  My two door 109 is a great car camping long distance car. Its a
bit on the noisy side (a common LR trait) but it is reasonably
comfortable and if kept up extremely reliable.

When I go on long trips I carry:

        Spare set of all special hoses, spare points, cap rotor, spare
        water pump lots of 90 weight oil and tools. On one trip I had to
        tighten the steering box mounts and add fluid to steering box.
        Other that that I have not had to work on the car while on a trip
        (of course I inspect things closely and top off fluids before
        taking a trip).

Since Land Rovers are still in production, you can still get genuine
factory parts :*)  I get mine mail-order from New hampshire.  If I am
willing to pay overnight, I can get any part for the Land Rover new or
used, next day.

=============================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 77


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 03:28:06 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part three
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:56:40 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

4.   THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN SHOPPING FOR A LAND ROVER:

     To start, number one important aspect... FRAME, FRAME, FRAME...
     A second thing to bear in mind is when using guides to Land Rover
     purchase, if the guide is from the UK it will be a lot more tough
     on potential purchases than necessary.

     CHECKING UNDER THE LAND-ROVER:

        - Check the FRAME carefully for RUST damage.  The frame is a
          thin walled rectangular tube shape, and is made of steel.  In
          some parts of the country, it is not uncommon to find a Land
          Rover in good condition with a badly rusted frame.  Take a
          hammer with you and firmly hit all crucial areas of the frame.
          If the frame dents, expect future problems, maybe sooner than
          later.

          At the front check behind the bumper (the spring hangers rust
          away), the shock absorber mounts and then the area around each
          of the bump stops.  It is usually the rear bump stops that are
          the worst affected, where water and mud go between the chassis
          and the top of the bump stop mounting plate.

          Check the chassis outriggers.  SWB cars suffer from problems on
          the right hand side below the rear edge of the door.  The
          close proximity of the fuel tank encourages a build up of mud,
          which rarely dries out.  This is also a difficult area to
          repair, with the fuel tank and wiring loom going through the
          frame at this point.

          Rear outriggers rust, but the big problem at the back is the
          main chassis behind the spring hangers.  This is a major
          repair job that is both difficult and time consuming.  Rot in
          the rear cross-member is also common.  This area is vital for
          any towing, and on a LWB repair or replacement is made more
          difficult as the fuel tank must be removed.

          Resale value of a car with a rusted frame (if water gets in
          from the top, it can rust the frame from the inside) should be
          should be very low. However, new galvanized frames are
          available for around $3K.  If you have time & inclination, &
          you stumble across a Land Rover in very good to excellent
          condition except for a rusted frame in the less than $1K
          range, you can add a new frame & get a great car.

        - The bulkhead is painted steel.  Check it for rust.  Repair
          panels are recently available.  Figure repair costs into the
          value of the car.  Check the bulkhead to chassis mounting points,
          the footwells and inner sides of the lower A-posts.  Then check
          the area at the base of the ventilation flaps.  Water gets in
          here and rots the lower corners of the windscreen surround.
          Check the metal around the top door hinge on each side.  Water
          gets into the door posts and the plate with the captive nuts
          holding the hinges rusts away, or the nuts seize and plate
          rips out.  You should expect to find rust around the master
          cylinders.  It is possible to repair great portions of the
          bulkhead, but the work is awkward.

        - Oil on inside of wheels mean the inner oil seals are history
          and therefore so are the brakes (oil on the outside is a minor
          seal problem & doesn't affect the brakes.

        - Next look at the body above where the drive shaft mates to the
          differentials (front and back). If there is lots of oil on the
          body, the pinion seal is history and should be replaced before
          you accidentally run it out of oil.

        - There are two large ball joints on the front axle.  Inspect
          these joints carefully for pitting.  A pitted ball joint will
          leak oil away from the front wheel bearings and steering pivot
          points.  The clean parts of these joints should be smooth,
          unpitted and rust free.  Otherwise they need to be replaced.
          (actually some pitting is inevitable, but they should feel
          smooth to the touch.)  These ball joints are expensive &
          require the disassembly of the front end. If the ball joints
          are badly pitted, subtract $1K for repairs.

          Excessive oil leaks could point to potential problems with a
          pair of top and bottom steering swivels and an ordinary Hardy
          Spicer-type universal joint.  These run in a protective bath
          of EP90 gear oil, and though some oil loss is inevitable,
          excessive loss will lead to rapid wear of the swivels, and to
          a lesser extent, the universal joints.  Dry seals probably
          mean that the housing is empty of oil.

          Steering swivels can be checked for wear by jacking up the
          front of the vehicle (with the weight in the suspension) and
          attempting to move the tyre in and out sharply from the top.
          SOme movement is acceptable, but if excessive could mean new
          swivel pins and universal joint overhauls.

        - Look at the drive flanges.  If there are missing or broken
          bolts, it could mean that the threads are shot.  The threads
          are very awkward to fix, so it can be another bargaining
          point.  This is caused by owners over tightening the bolts, or
          forgetting to put anti-sieze compound on the bolts.

        - Wheel bearings are very large and robust, but the presence of
          aftermarket road wheels with different offsets could mean that
          the bearings could be in trouble.

        - Freewheeling hubs can cause problems.  Unless the freewheeling
          hubs are engaged at least 10 miles for every 50 driven, rapid
          wear can occur in the steering swivels.  A secondary problem
          that can happen to the differential and half shafts if the
          hubs are not engaged properly.  If the vehicle is habitually
          run in high two or four wheel drive on the road, all should be
          well.  Selecting low ration in the transfer box for off-road
          automatically engages four wheel drive in order to split the
          torque and avoid overloading the rear axle.  If the front hubs
          are disengaged, there is the danger of overloading the axle
          and damaging the rear drive shaft, and possibly the main
          gearbox output shaft.

        - Differentials are stong and robust units with most problems
          occurring in the rear differential when they have been abused.
          (Note: the crowns and pinions are the same as in the Rover P6
          saloon)  The problem at the rear is halfshaft failure (Most
          frequently on Pre-1965 LWB and FC models.  Later Series II's
          have a Salisbury axle (recognised by the squarer casing) and
          the halfshafts in these are said to be basically unbreakable.
          Converting between rear axles is possible if the drive shaft
          is shortened.

        - Expect the engine and gearbox to be leaking oil (The British
          never could seem to get the knack of oil seals).  Just assume
          that you should check fluids frequently.  A leaking rear seal
          on the gearbox can lead to the gearbox brake drum filling up,
          but this should affect its operation that much.  It should be
          noted that the vehicle will rock forward and backwards with
          the gearbox brake engaged as the drive train takes up any
          slack.

        - All Land Rovers leak.  You will never seal one up, either for
          water getting in, or oil getting out.

        - Heaters are optional & different heaters may have been
          installed. Least desirable is the Smiths type with the
          cylindrical core. This is the same that comes in the TR3.  The
          most desirable is called a Kodiak heater.  It has a flat core
          in the firewall. This heater can quickly heat up a 109.
          Depending upon your location, you can add $$ for this heater.

        - Older Land Rovers have two windshield wiper motors, each
          controlling one blade.  They both should work.  These motors
          are expensive. If the motor runs slow the grease inside is
          dried up. Regreasing one is an easy afternoon project, so a
          slow motor should not be a concern.  However, I would deduct
          about $200 for a non functioning wiper motor.

     STARTING THE ENGINE:

        - The engine should start easily and run extremely smoothly at
          800 RPM.

        - Idle oil pressure should be 20lbs or better. Running oil
          pressure should be around 50lbs.

        - Pop the radiator cap and leave it off until the engine is
          warm. There should be no air bubbles (sign of leaky head
          gasket, cracked head).

        - Let the car idle.  Unlike other British cars that shall remain
          nameless, it should show no signs of overheating in a
          prolonged idle.

        - You can also check out the electrical system while the car is
          idling.  Cars equipped with push pull switches may require the
          knob to be wiggled a bit to work.  This switch has exposed
          contacts that get oxidized over time.  They are easy to clean
          up.

        - I do not remember the compression but they should be within 5
          lbs or so.

     TEST DRIVING THE LAND ROVER:

        - When you drive a Land Rover, expect it to be noisy (no reason
          to have an expensive stereo here).

        - When you test drive the car use all gears as well as high and
          low range.  It should be quitest in fourth gear.  In pre-
          series III, DO NOT downshift below third gear while moving.
          There is no syncro there & the owner may be very unhappy if
          you were to take off a tooth or two.  Be sure to try all 8
          gear ratios forward and both reverse ratios.  If you have a
          overdrive thats 16 forward & 4 reverse!  The transfer case
          should smoothly go into & out of 4 wheel drive.

        - Expect series II transmissions to be louder in first, second
          and reverse gears since they are straight cut.  Otherwise the
          transmission and transfer case should not be overloud.

        - When trying out the 4 wheel drive, make sure the front wheels
          are locked.  If you turn the wheel while in 4WD and on dry
          pavement, expect to feel the steering wheel wobble a bit.
          This is normal under these conditions & does not happen on icy
          roads or off road.  If you do not feel a wobble in the
          steering wheel while making a tight turn on dry pavement in
          4WD, there is something wrong or you are not really in 4WD
          with the front hubs locked.

        - The steering should be smooth and have little or no freeplay.
          There should be no strange vibrations in either 2 or 4 wheel
          drive.  Steering can be conceeded as heavy and ponderous, and
          if in top shape, nearly as good as rack and pinion.  The
          design and number of ball joints will make it feel vague.
          Check the six balljoints, and if there is vertical motion, us
          this as a bargaining point to drop the price.  They are not
          difficult to replace, and should run C$30 each to replace.

          Steering vagueness can be adjusted, but beware of your
          knuckles.  A large lugnut needs to be released for the
          adjuster, and it takes a lot of torque.  Adjustment can make a
          world of difference to the steering.  The idler-relay
          mechanism on the front cross member rarely gives any problem,
          but if it does, you face real problems.  Much of this
          mechanism lie within the frame and it is not that uncommon to
          have to chop that piece of the frame out to get it out, and
          weld a new piece in before refitting it.  Before tackling the
          idler, read a workshop manual.  There is a large heavy spring
          inside that can be dangerous.

        - Be sure to check he normal things, such as brakes, steering
          tightness, etc.

        - Its the slowest 4x4 on the road, but it is semi-indestructible,
          and built to be field striped in a jungle with a screwdriver
          and crescent wrench.

     LAND ROVER EXTRAS:

        - A tropical roof with air vents and upper windows is highly
          desirable. Add 2-3 hundred dollars to value.  (This was
          standard on the 109 Station Wagon)

        - Add $500 for good condition overdrive. (note: 342 pounds from
          the UK in July 1993 for a new one.)

        - Add $700 to $1000 for Positraction differentials.

        - Newish door seals are worth an extra 2-3 hundred dollars
          (these are expensive and hard to put on).

        - Subtract $500 if car has LR six engine.

        - Leaky engine/tranny seals should not affect price as this is
          normal.

        - Doormobile anything are worth more.

        - Factory manuals are desirable.

        - Expect paint to be in bad condition and minor dents.

        - You should get prices for parts that need replacing and
          subtract those from asking price of LR unless seller has
          already taken this into account.

        - Engine swaps such as chevy 6 and 4 are common.  The do not
          increase value. Be careful with Chevy 6 as it tends to
          overheat in LR unless installation compensates for location of
          cooling fan. Check this carefully for overheating.

        - Stay away from 8 cylinder swaps. They had to play some games
          to get it in there and value is way down. (Unless done via a
          kit from the UK and using the Rover 3.5l V8)

        - Most LR instrument panels have been modified. If it looks LR
          it should not change value. Subtract a few $$ if it looks JC
          Higgins or wood-working 101.

     VALUE:

        - Since Land Rovers are not common and have not been imported
          for a long time, many people have no idea what they are worth.
          Just as a guess, I would say:

          Doormobile $10K,  109 2 door $6K,   88 $4K,   109 four door $3K

        - These are for good condition runners that are essentially
          stock. If you look about you may find a fixer up in a field
          for considerably less. Bargains can be had from people who
          have no idea what they are worth.  Excellent condition cars
          may command up to twice the above values.  Ex-military Land
          Rovers command a higher price. You will pay the most through a
          Land Rover parts house. A fellow by the name of Jeffery
          Jackson (408) 629-8274 has been involved with importing
          ex-military 109 Land Rovers.

        - An estimated UK price would be about 1,000 pounds for a Series
          II with and MoT and years of useful life left in it.  LWB models
          tend to be cheaper, diesels more expensive.  A parts vehicle
          should run around 250 pounds.  (1993)

=============================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 78


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 03:50:02 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part six
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 24 Jul 1993 00:00:37 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

7.      MAGAZINES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS

Note:  All books are available unless otherwise noted below.

        LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int.
        2323 Randolph Avenue
        New Jersey 07001

        Cost $70 US/year
        also this address
        LRO Publications LTD.
        The Hollies, Botesdale,
        Diss, Norfolk IP22 1BZ, UK

  BOOKS:  Manuals (Land Rover Ltd.);

        Land Rover I                                       1948-58
        Land Rover II & IIA, Part 1 (Engine & Gearbox)     1958-70
        Land Rover II & IIA, Part 2                        1958-70
        Land Rover III                                     1971-85
        Land Rover III, V8 supplement
        Land Rover 101 Forward Control                     1975-77
        Land Rover 90/110 (including Defender supplement)  1983 on
        Range Rover                                        1970-85
        Range Rover                                        1986 on
        Discovery                                          1989 on

  BOOKS:  Parts catalogues (Land Rover Ltd.)

        Land Rover I                                       1948-53
        Land Rover I                                       1953-58
        Land Rover 80" Military
        Land Rover II                                      1958-61
        Land Rover IIA                                     1961-71
        Land Rover IIA & IIB (Forward Control model)       1962-72
        Land Rover III (including V8)                      1971-85
        Land Rover 101 Forward Control                     1975-77
        Land Rover IIA & III Optional Equipment            1961-85
        Land Rover 110                                     1983-86
        Land Rover 110                                     1987
        Land Rover 90                                      1984 on
        Range Rover                                        1970-85
        Range Rover                                        1986 on
        Discovery                                          1989 on

  BOOKS:  Owner's Manuals (Land Rover Ltd.)

        Land Rover I 80"                                   1948-53
        Land Rover I                                       1953-58
        Land Rover I & II (Die.)                           1948-61
        Land Rover IIA & IIB                               1961-72
        Land Rover IIA, 24 volt
        Land Rover III                                     1971-81
        Land Rover III                                     1981-85
        Land Rover 3/4 Ton (109 12 & 24 volt vehicles)     1971-85
        Land Rover 1/2 Ton                                 1971-85
        Land Rover 101 Forward Control                     1975-77
        Land Rover III                                     1979-83
        Land Rover 90/110                                  1983 on
        Range Rover                                        1970-81
        Range Rover                                        by year to 1989
        Discovery                                          1989 on

  BOOKS:  Manuals (various);

        Guide to Purchase & DIY Restoration: Land Rover Series I, II & III
         Lindsey Porter, Haynes Publishing Group, 1992
         ISBN 0 85429 681 6

        Haynes Land-Rover II, IIA & III (petrol) Owners Workshop Manual (314)
        Haynes Land-Rover II & III (diesel) Owners Workshop Manual (529)
        Haynes Range Rover Workshop Manual 1970-87

        Land Rover 2, 2A, & 3 Owners Workshop Manual,
         1958-83 including 6 and 8 cylinder Petrol or Diesel Models
         Brooklands

        Land Rover Restoration Tips and Techniques
         Richard Green, Brooklands
         - Includes information on refurbishing a SWB Serries III 88 with
           hundreds of how to's for Land Rover Owners.  Dropping a V8,
           refurbishing a Ninety, gearbox repair, fitting a winch,
           repairing rear-ends, et cetera.  A collection of the articles
           published in LRO magazine over the years.

        Practical Classics: Land Rover Restoration
         Brooklands

        Series III Lightweight Parts Catalogue
         Brooklands

  BOOKS:  Other;

        Advertising Land Rover; Series I & II, 1948-71
         Daniel Young, Yesteryear Books
         - A collection of Land Rover advertisements with attention to
           the early years.  Basically a collection of sales literature
           and magazine cuttings advertising the Land Rover.

        British Land Rovers in the Gulf
         Bob Morrison

        Brooklands Road Tests:  Series One 1948-58
        Brooklands Road Tests:  Land Rover II and IIA 1958-71
        Brooklands Road Tests:  Land Rover Series III 1971-85
        Brooklands Road Tests:  90/110 1983/89

        Choice, Purchase, Performance, I, II, III & V8
         James Taylor

        Classics in Colour: Land Rover;
         James Taylor
         - Colour, data and detail on civilian, military and special
           vehicles from 1948 to 1991.  120+ colour photos with fact sheets
           on the different variants, Santana's, Lightweights etc.

        Driving Techniques (out of print)
         Land Rover Ltd. Publications

        Exploring Green Roads and Lanes in Great Britain.
         Ian Thompson, Haynes Publishing Group
         - A round Britain trip by motorcycles, but mostly
           suitable for off road vehicles.

        The Fighting Rovers
         L. Geary

        Four Wheel Drive and Land Rover
         N. Baldwin

        Know Your Land Rover
         Robert Ivins

        The Land Rover
         Chris Bennet
         - A book full of pictures of Land Rovers in great detail.  A
           brief history of the Land Rover, variations, modifications by
           the Special Vehicles Operations Dept, a section on the Camel
           trophy.

        The Land Rover 1948-88 Collectors Guide
         J. Taylor

        Land-Rover - The Unbeatable 4x4 (3rd ed)
         K. & K. Slavin & G.Mackie, ISBN 0 85429 721 9
         - Traces the history of the LR, including reprints of road
           tests in 1949.  Details on the Special Projects department
           and records possibly all of the more unusual and odd special
           projects, military vehicles, a guide to Land Rover
           expeditions etc.

        The Off-Road Four-Wheel-Drive Book
         Jack Jackson, Haynes Publishing Group

        Petes 1st Book Land Rover Laughs

        Prototype Land Rover Report

        Range Rover 1970 - 86
         James Taylor

        Range Rover Collectors Guide series, 2nd edition
         J. Taylor

        Range Rover Conversions
         N. Dimbleby, Haynes Publishing Group

        Range Rover Gold Portfolio 1970 - 92
         Brooklands
         - Road & comparison tests, buying 2nd hand, new models, turbo
           diesel, Vogue Autos, Technical data, et cetera

        Special Service Tools for Land Rover & Range Rover, 54 pages
         Land Rover Ltd. Publications

        Winching in Safety
         Land Rover Ltd. Publications

        Working in the Wild (Africa Manual)
         Land Rover Ltd. Publications

===========================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 79


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 04:12:38 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part two
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:55:41 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

3.      ENGINES & GEARBOXES

ENGINES

There are major 3 engines types available for these cars:

- 4 cylinder petrol. This engine is seriously overbuilt (mine has 300K+
  miles on it. Compression is low so it runs on just about any type of
  petrol.  It has a single downdraft carb, circular intake ports, roller
  cam, 20 Amp generator. The engine gets about 15 to 18 MPG and runs
  smoothly under load below 1000RPM.

  The most common variety of this engine is the 2.25l version.  Engines
  with smaller capacities were used in earlier, read Series I and II
  vehicles.  These engines include the 1.6l and 2.0l engines.

  Specifications:

-  Petrol Engines:

        Land Rover Series I      :   (1948 - 51)
                4-cylinder       :   69.5 x 105mm 1595cc
                compression ratio:   6.8:1
                carburettor      :   Solex
                horsepower       :   50bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm
                maximum torque   :   80 lb ft at 2,000 rpm

             -  this is an overhead valve, side-exhaust, bypass filtered
                Rover car engine.

        Land Rover Series I      :   (80 inch model, 1952 - 54)
                                     (86 inch model, 1954 - 56)
                                     (107 inch model, 1954 - 58)
                                     (88 inch model, 1956 - 58)
                                     (109 inch model, 1956 - 58)
                4-cylinder       :   77.8 x 105mm 1997cc
                compression ratio:   6.8:1
                carburettor      :   Solex
                horsepower       :   52bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm
                maximum torque   :   101 lb ft at 1,500 rpm

              - This engine again uses a bypass filter arrangement, with
                the 1.6l engine bored out to 2l.  Spacing between the 1
                & 2 and 3 & 4 cylinders is down to 1/4" which becomes a
                problem later in engine life.  The original 2l engine
                was only used from Sept. 1952 to 1954 and the
                introduction of the 86". In 1954 the full flow 2l engine
                was introduced, modified baearings but still suffered
                from the 1/4 spacing between cylinders.  In 1956 the
                spacing was corrected with "staggered bores" where the
                spacing was increased to 3/8".

                Problems with the 1.6l and 2l include camshaft problems
                with the followers wearing prematurely, exhaust valves
                that didn't last too long, head gaskets are prone to
                blowing, and a rear main "thrower" system on the back of
                the crankshaft, that after a lot of off-road use, could
                lead to oil getting into the clutch, or a lot of wading
                could lead to the crank pulling water into the engine.
                This last problem was solved on the later 2l engines
                which could keep oil in and water out.

        Land Rover Series II     :   (88 inch model, 1958 - 61)
                                     (109 inch model, 1958 - 61)
                   Series IIA    :   (88 inch model, 1961 - 71)
                                     (109 inch model, 1961 - 71)
                4-cylinder       :   90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc
                compression ratio:   7.0:1
                carburettor      :   Solex
                horsepower       :   70bhp (net) at 4,250 rpm
                maximum torque   :   124 lb ft at 2,500 rpm

             -  This engine includes modifications of a stronger water
                crankshaft, altered water pump position (because of
                cylinder head cooling problems) and modified water pump
                and thermostat housings.  This engine was so successful,
                that it was used up until 1984, although a 5-bearing
                engine was introduced in 1980.

                Problems:  The early 2.25l engines has a cooling problem
                that resulted in cracked heads and suffered from
                crankshaft knock.  Later 2.25l engines solved this
                problem.

        Land Rover Series III    :   (88 inch model, 1971 - 85)
                   Series IIIB   :   (109 inch model, 1971 - 85)
                4-cylinder       :   90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc
                compression ratio:   8.0:1
                carburettor      :   Zenith
                horsepower       :   70bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm
                maximum torque   :   120 lb ft at 1,500 rpm

-  Diesel Engines:

        Land Rover Series I      :   (88 & 109 inch models, 1957 - 58)
                4-cylinder       :   85.79 x 88.9mm 2052cc
                compression ratio:   22.5:1
                carburettor      :   CAV fuel injection
                horsepower       :   55bhp (net) at 3,500 rpm
                maximum torque   :   87 lb ft at 2,000 rpm

        Land Rover Series II     :   (88 & 109 inch models, 1957 - 58)
                4-cylinder       :   85.7 x 88.9mm 2052cc
                compression ratio:   22.5:1
                carburettor      :   CAV fuel injection
                horsepower       :   51bhp (net) at 3,500 rpm
                maximum torque   :   87 lb ft at 2,000 rpm

        Land Rover Series IIA    :   (88 & 109 inch models, 1962 - 71)
                   Series III    :   (109 inch models, 1971 - 85)
                4-cylinder       :   90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc
                compression ratio:   23.0:1
                carburettor      :   CAV fuel injection
                horsepower       :   62bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm
                maximum torque   :   103 lb ft at 1,800 rpm

             -  This is the 2.25l petrol engine with different material
                crankshaft, different pistons, larger con rods etc.

- An 'L'head 6 that came in a few LRs (mainly 109s). This is a heavy low
  HP antique. Parts are relatively hard to get.

        Land Rover Series IIA    :   (109 inch models, 1967 - 71)
                6-cylinder       :   77.8 x 92.1mm 2625cc
                compression ratio:   7.8:1
                carburettor      :   SU (Skinners Union)
                horsepower       :   83bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm
                maximum torque   :   128 lb ft at 1,500 rpm

        Land Rover Series III    :   (109 inch models, 1971 - 85)
                6-cylinder       :   77.8 x 92.1mm 2625cc
                compression ratio:   7.8:1
                carburettor      :   Zenith - Stromberg
                horsepower       :   86bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm
                maximum torque   :   132 lb ft at 1,500 rpm

                This is a detuned Rover 110 car engine with modified
                water pump and different carburettor for the Land Rover.
                This is an excellent engine for towing, and was a smooth
                running engine.  However...

             -  Problems:  Same as the early 1.6l and 2l engines where
                it ate a lot of exhaust valves and suffered the
                additional problem of the long aluminium head corroding
                or warping.


- A fourth engine variety, very rare in North America as the owner had
  to undertake the conversion, is a Land Rover with the Rover aluminium
  block 3.5 litre V8.  This engine combination is common in the UK.
  Kits are available from the UK for those willing to undertake the
  conversion process.  (The 3.5l engine was also used in the TR-8 among
  other BL & Rover vehicles.)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEARBOXES:

        There are basically 3 versions of gearboxes (transmissions).
        The series I & II, IIA and Series III.  The Land Rover gearbox
        remained basically unchanged from 1948 until 1970.

        The Series I gearbox had few problems because of the low power
        of the 1.6 or 2l engines, and the relative light weight of the
        Land Rover itself.  The common faults were the engagement dogs
        on second gear (no synchromesh here), chipped first gear on the
        lay shafts and a broken main shaft.  These are all the fault of
        poor driving or overloading.  In 1958 the extra power of the
        2.25l engine made these problems worse.  This Series II gearbox
        had the same innards as the Series I but had a modified housing
        for the change in engine specification.

        The gearbox specification was changed in 1961 with the
        introduction of the Series IIA.  The main gearbox had a beefed
        up lay shaft and a front bearing as well as a repositioned
        reverse gear idler (these used to break sometimes).  The idler
        pin on the gearbox was also enlarged.  This gearbox could even
        cope with the 6 cylinder engine without problem.

        In 1971 an all new gearbox was introduced with the Series III.
        Basic differences were that this had a larger diaphragm clutch
        (Note: this larger clutch plate and diaphragm will fit on the
        older gearboxes) and the 4 speed synchromesh.  This gearbox
        needs to be treated sensibly.  The massive baulk ring assembly
        does not like to be rushed and can cause problems if it is.
        This gearbox is not considered to be as strong as the Series IIA
        gearbox.


=============================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 80


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 04:40:48 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part eight
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 24 Jul 1993 00:02:54 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Sorry, counted wrong... :-)

        Comments are welcome, as well as additions, corrections et cetera.
        Loading this in, I notice that I have forgotten a couple of years
        worth of chassis numbering decypherment, and probably a couple of
        other things.  This FAQ is aimed at the North American Land-Rovers,
        as I am unfamiliar with what was available in Australia, and lack
        details to go past the end of the Series III (1984) to complete
        what was, and is, available in the UK.  Overall, it is a bit of an
        extension to the text file that TerriAnn put together that has
        served people so well for quite a while.

        So lets here what you think, and what I have missed...  :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 81


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 04:40:48 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:51:22 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        At a current 1300 lines or so, expect the tentative version of the
        LRO FAQ to arrive at your doorstep in eight major parts.  Comments
        will be appreciated...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 82


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 05:10:07 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part four
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:57:53 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

5.      SPECIFICATIONS
                                      88                   109
                                      Basic     S.Wagon    Basic  S.Wagon
                                      --------  --------   -----  -------

Overall length                        142.375"  142.375"   175"   175"
Overall width                         66"       66"        66"    66"

Overall unladen height,               77.5"
   (hood up)
Overall unladen height                68"
   (hood down, windscreen up)
Overall unladen height,               57.5"
   (hood down, windscreen down)
Overall unladen height,               76.875"   77.875"    81"    81.375"
   (with cab or hard top)

Wheelbase                             88"       88"        109"   109"
Track                                 51.5"     51.5"      51.5"  51.5"
Turning circle                        38'       38'        47'    47'

Unladen ground clearence              8"        8"
 under differential (6x16" tyres)
Unladen ground clearence              8.75"     8.75"
 under differential (7x16" tyres)
Unladen ground clearence                                   9.75"  9.75"
 under differential (7.5x16" tyres)

Weight, running with water, oil
  & five gallons of fuel  PETROL      2,953     3,281      3,301  3,752
  (pounds)                DIESEL      3,097     3,435      3,471  3,922

Max. approved payload (street)
                          persons     2         7          2      10
                          & pounds    1,000       100      2,000    400
Max. approved payload (off-rd)
                          persons     2         7          2      10
                          & pounds    1,000       100      2,000    400

Max. drawbar pull  PETROL             4,000     4,000      3,500  3,500
                   DIESEL             3,300     3,300      2,900  2,900

Internal body dimensions
  Length (between cappings)           43"                  72.75"
  Width  (between cappings)           56.875"              72.75"
  Depth                               19.5"                19"
  Height of wheel arch                8.5"                 9"
  Width of wheel arch to body side    13.75"               13.75"
  Width of floor (between wheel arch) 36.25"               36.25"
  Height (floor to roof maximum)      48.5"                48.5"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPACITIES:                          Normal units   US units    Metric units
                                                                (litres)
                                     ------------   ---------   ------------
Engine sump oil 4 cylinder           11 pints       13 pints    6
                6 cylinder           10 pints       12 pints    5.75
Extra when refilling after           3 pints        3.5 pints   1.75
  fitting with new filtre 4 cyl.
  (Late models)                      2.25 pints     2.75 pints  1.5
Extra when refilling after           1 pint         1.2  pints  0.5
  fitting with new filtre 6 cyl.

Air cleaner, 4 cylinder              1.5 pints      1.8 pints   0.85
Air cleaner, 6 cylinder              1 pints        1.2 pints   0.5

Main gearbox oil                     2.5 pints      3 pints     1.5
Transfer box oil                     4.5 pints      5.5 pints   2.5

Rear diff (basic)                    3 pints        3.5 pints   1.75
Front diff (basic)                   3 pints        3.5 pints   1.75
Rear diff (ENV)                      2.125 pints    2.5 pints   1.2
Rear diff (ENV)                      2.625 pints    3.1 pints   1.4
Rear diff (limited slip)             3 pints        3.5 pints   1.75

Swivel pin housing                   1 pint         1.2 pints   0.5

Fuel tank  (88")                     10 gallons     12 pints    45
Fuel tank (109")                     16 gallons     19 pints    73

Cooling system  Petrol               18 pints       21.5 pints  10.25
Cooling system, Diesel               17.5 pints     21 pints    10

==========================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 83


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 05:30:55 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part seven
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 24 Jul 1993 00:01:59 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

8.      LAND ROVER CLUBS

    CANADA

        Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR)
        c/o Mike McDermott
        1016 Normandy Crescent
        Ottawa, Ontario, K2C 0L4  CANADA
        (Canada's oldest and largest Land Rover club)

        Island Rovers
        c/o Ron Low
        2685 Otter Point Road
        RR. 2, Sooke, British Columbia
        V0S 1M0  CANADA

        Prairie Rovers
        c/o Scott Sheppard
        Box 331
        Powerview, Manitoba
        R0E 1P0  CANADA

        Rover Register
        c/o Al Sigurdson
        Box 793
        Duncan, British Columbia
        V9L 3Y5  CANADA

        Series I Club
        c/o Dave Davey
        RR. 5, Bracebridge, Ontario
        P1L 1X3  CANADA

        Toronto Rover Club
        c/o Trevor Easton
        124 Central Avenue
        Grimsley, Ontario
        L3M 4Z2  CANADA

     UNITED STATES

        Land Rover of North America
        PO BOX 6836
        OAKLAND CA 94603 USA.
        Editor - Brad Blevins
        2998 Atlantic St
        Concord, CA 94518 USA

        Rover Owner's Association of VA
        c/o Sandy
        1633 Melrose Parkway
        Norfolk, VA,  23508-1730  USA

==========================================================================
9.      LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA)

        ----------
        Atlantic British Ltd
        Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive
        Mechanicville, NY 12118
        (800) 533-2210 Orders only
        (518) 664-6169 Technical questions
        (518) 664-6641 Fax
        Free catalog
        Lots of aftermarket parts
        Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized

        ----------
        CARS
        Camarillo, CA
        (800) 882-1349
        Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and
        Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts.

        ----------
        The British Northwest Land-Rover Co.
        1043 Kaiser Rd. SW
        Olympia, WA 98502
        parts - (206) 866-2254
        sales - (206) 866-2381

        Bruce Harding writes: "When dealing with these folks you need to
        verify costs and availabilities over the phone or you may be
        surprised. Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special'
        made." He goes on to say: "After all this happened I sent out a
        message to the group asking where people purchased their parts
        and NOBODY replied they used this outfit. I then looked back
        over my invoice numbers to discover they issue an average of 9
        invoices a week over an 8 month period... and several of these
        were return/backorder invoices of mine. I can't believe they
        sell many LR's as their prices are extremely high, although
        their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business."
        Lee Fischer says: "I would go to great lengths to get
        parts/service from any other Rover company that I've dealt with
        instead of these folks."

        ----------
        D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc.
        7 Kendrick Road
        Wareham, MA 02571
        (508) 291-1311
        Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories
        - warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling

        Jory reports some major problems with this outfit: "absolutely
        every major component I sourced from DAP failed in some
        manner... usually incurring greater costs than the original
        problem..." In particular he had bad experience with road
        springs and rocker area hardware.

        ----------
        Jim "Scotty" Howett
        (510) 686-2255
        Teriann Wakeman says: "He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send
        you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do a mail
        order."

        ----------
        Nisonger
        Victory Gardens, NJ
        (800) 431-2496
        Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and
        Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts.

        ----------
        Rovers North
        Box 61 Route 128
        Westford, VT 05494
        (802) 879-0032
        Authorized Land Rover parts supplier
        Free catalog
        Restoration program:
        - Customer must sign up (no cost)
        - Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash
        out", you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases
        based on the amount you have purchased up to that point.

        ----------
        Rover's West Eight Parts
        4060 Michigan
        Tucson, AZ 85714
        (602) 748-8115

        ----------
        Roverworks - New York
        800-999-6402
        Land Rovers available:
        1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt
        Base Model 88   $17,000
        109 Regular     $19,500
        109 Safari      $24,000
        Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the
        UK. Prices start at $5,000) (prices from 1.3.93) 1967 88 hardtop
        (VG) $ 8,000 1961 109 Safari $19,000 1967 109 Safari $12,000

        Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts.

        ----------
        Doug Shipman
        503-252-5566
        Bruce Harding says that this guy has a lot of used Land Rover
        parts. He reports that many local people have used his services
        with good results.

LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITAIN)******

        ----------
        A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd
        The Showground
        The Cliff
        Matlock
        Derbyshire DE4 5EW
        Tel 0629 584499
        Fax 0629 584498

        ----------
        Demon Tweeks
        Hugmore Lane
        LLan-y-pwll
        Wrexham Clwyd
        United Kingdom
        LL13 9YE
        International phone number 44 978 664466
        Fax: 44 978 664467

        Ross says: "Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non
        Weber service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle
        valves, diaphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc...
        they do not include new jets however." These kits are available
        form the above company. They may have Solex rebuild kits.

        ----------
        Famous Four
        Tattershall Way
        Fairfield Industrial Estate
        Louth
        Lincolnshire LN11 0YA
        Tel 0507 609444
        Fax 0507 609555

        ----------
        John Craddock Ltd.
        70-76 North Street
        Bridgtown
        Cannock
        Staffordshire WS11 3AZ
        Tel 0543 577207 or 505408
        Fax 0543 504818

        ----------
        Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd.
        Bridge Industrial Estate
        Speke Hall Road
        Speke (Nr. Airport)
        Liverpool L24 9HE
        tel 051 486 8636
        fax 051 486 5986

        Dixon reported a problem with an order in that they sent him the
        wrong part (silencer) - but he says that they cleared that up
        promptly and sent him a new one (by air their cost) and let him
        keep the other part. "I must admit I am impressed with the
        prompt service and their willingness to correct a problem. They
        have my business... "

        ----------
        P.A.Blanchard & Co.
        Clay Lane
        Shiptonthorpe
        York YO4 3RU
        Tel 0430 872765
        Fax 0430 872777
        Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit
        civilian versions

========================================================================
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 92 15:42:34 -0500
From: archer@hsi86.hsi.com (Garry Archer)
To: british-cars%hoosier.utah.edu@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re:  Land Rovers


I dunno, I must be a puritan or somethin', but I wince and cringe whenever
I read and hear folks refer to Land Rovers as "cars", "trucks" or "Rovers".

They're Land Rovers!!!!!!!!!!

There is no other classification for them :-)

Me dad drove Land Rovers for decades until he retired in 1990 (they belonged 
to his firm but he always brought them home for personal use).  Funnily
enough, he said he would never buy one himself, "They're too expensive
to maintain", he said.  The firm always kept them in tip-top condition
so they were always being maintained and me Dad must have been privy to
the cost.

Where I lived in England there were a lot of quarries.  Me dad worked 
down most of those quarries (huh, so *that's* why his job title was Quarry 
Manager...)  The quarries produced high quality clay for the area's 
refractories.  I digress.  So I've seen the Land Rover in its element -- in 
all elements! -- in fact I've seen them in all positions including rolling 
over down some quarries!  Usually they make the steepest inclines though 
(where them darn bulldozers thought that only they could go!).

Fortune (in the form of me Dad) blessed me with the opportunity to drive
a Land Rover (several of them).  One doesn't need to go fast in a Land
Rover (some have mentioned their "low" top speed).  One just goes and goes.
Of all vehicles I have ever driven, I have had the most fun driving a
Land Rover (Archer stop that grinning, you're still at work...)

One of these days, when I'm Rich And Famous I'll have meself a Land Rover
parked right next to me Aston Martins (I can't decide on just *one*!).


Garry Archer Esq.	{yale, uunet}!hsi!archer  -OR-  archer@hsi.com
3M Health Information Systems,	Wallingford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"An Englishman never enjoys himself, except for a noble purpose." - A.P.Herbert


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 84


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 24 05:53:14 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: LRO FAQ, part five
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 23 Jul 1993 23:59:18 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

6.      CHASSIS NUMBERING

1948 - 1949     Prefixed by an L or R indicating left or right-hand drive,
                were six or seven digits.

                The first digit indicated the year:
                   8 = 1948-49
                The second digit indicates the type:
                   6 = Land Rover
                The third digit (applicable only to seven digit numbers)
                indicates the model type:
                   6 = Basic
                   7 = Station Wagon
                   8 = Welder

                With the exception of the 866 series, whose serial
                numbers started at 3001, the last four digits show the
                serial number starting at 0001.

1950 - 1953     Prefixed by a L or R, indicating left or right-hand
                drive, only on the 1950 models, were eight digits.

                The first digit indicates the year where:
                   0 = 1950
                   1 = 1951
                   2 = 1952
                   3 = 1953
                The second digit indicates the type:
                   6 = Land Rover
                The third digit indicates the model type:
                   1 = Basic
                   2 = Station Wagon
                   3 = Welder
                   6 = completely knocked down CKD
                The fourth digit, excluding 1950 models, indicates the
                destination:
                   0 = Home market
                   3 = LHD Export
                   6 = RHD Export
                With the exception of the 1950 models with five digits,
                the remaining four digits start at 0001 and indicate the
                serial number.

1954 - 1955     An eight digit numbering system

                The first digit indicates the year where:
                   4 = 1954
                   5 = 1955
                The second digit indicates the type:
                   7 = Land Rover
                The third digit indicates the model type:
                   1 = 86 inch
                   2 = 107 inch
                   6 = 86 inch completely knocked down CKD
                   7 = 86 inch completely knocked down CKD
                The fourth digit indicates the destination:
                   0 = Home market
                   1 = Home market
                   3 = LHD export
                   4 = LHD export
                   6 = RHD export
                   7 = RHD export
                The remaining four digits start at 0001 and indicate the
                serial number.

1955            A nine dight digit numbering system

                The first digit indicates the type:
                   7 = Land Rover
                The second digit indicates the model:
                   1 = Land Rover
                The third digit indicates the destination:
                   0 = Home market
                   3 = LHD export
                   4 = LHD CKD
                   6 = RHD export
                   7 = RHD CKD
                The fourth digit indicates service period:
                   6 = late 1955 for service
                The remaining five digits start at 00001 and indicate
                the serial number.

===========================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 85


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 26 11:36:48 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Changes to FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Mon, 26 Jul 1993 00:24:58 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        The engine oil capacity for the 6-cylinder model has been changed
        to reflect what the workshop manual has to say.  Rover's North got
        it wrong when they copied it I guess.

        Chassis numbering is complete, but from 1956 on, it is vague.
        Should the FAQ show the detail that exists in the factory manual?
        The only concern is space considerations, but as it is sitting at
        1300 lines it might as well grow.  (putting in the detail will add
        some 40 lines for these years to clearly enable someone to decypher
        the beginning of the mess.  PS. I don't have a clue how to decypher
        the VIN on post 1980 vehicles)  Below is the added bit as currently
        exists:

-------------------
1956 - 1961     A nine digit numbering system.

                The first digit on all models = 1
                The second and third digits are in pairs in the following
                sequence indicating:
                   11-35 = Series I models
                   41-71 = Series II models
                The fourth digit indicates the year:
                   6 = 1956
                   7 = 1957
                   8 = 1958
                   9 = 1959
                   0 = 1960
                   1 = 1961
                The remaining five digits starting with 00001 indicate
                the serial number.

1962 - 1979     An eight digit chassis numbering system with suffix letters

                The first, second, and third digits indicate the model
                and specification.
                   241-354 = Series II
                   901-965 = Series III
                The remaining five digits starting with 00001 indicate
                the serial number.
                The suffix letter indicates design modifications.
                Note:  The year, or model-year of manufacture have no
                       identification number.

1980 - Date     All these years use the conventional Vehicle Identification
                Number (VIN)

WHERE IS YOUR CHASSIS NUMBER?

        80 inch models:  The chassis number can be found on the nearside
                         engine mounting and on the brass plate on the
                         nearside of the bulkhead.  Later vehicles had
                         the plate positioned inside the cab.

        86 & 107 models: The chassis number can be found on the bulkhead
                         inside the vehicle and on the right hand front
                         spring hanger.

        88 & 109 models: The chassis number can be found on the bulkhead
                         inside the vehicle and on the right hand front
                         spring hanger.


===========================================================================


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 86


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 26 15:30:24 1993
Return-Path: <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu>
>From: Benjamin Smith <ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu> 
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: FAQ
Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 13:23:14 PDT
From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu

One interesting thing that could be put in the FAQ is a comparison between
the various carbuerators on the 2.25 l engine.  Comparisons could be in
availibility, price, average mpg, bhp, and max torque.

Also on the parts front British Pacific was left out.  They recently moved.
Their mechanics are at a Mobil station 840 Huntington Drive, San Marino CA
and their parts are in Burbank,CA.  I'll try to post complete address and
phone # tomorrow.  British Pacific deals with only genuine parts and tends
to be a little more expendsive than Rovers North.

-Benjamin Smith
 ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu
 1972 Land Rover Series III 88



Message No 87


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 26 17:15:13 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 22:03:24 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com

 folks-
this letter was written a few weeks ago and was returned boomerang-style.
i do not think it made the net (and apologize if it did and you're sick
of reading it) and contains some slightly out of date references (ie the
roof and window talk that has since faded out of fashion).  also-i have not
checked to see if Womack made the FAQ listing or not (dixon are you there?).
if not i will gladly supply his info.

rd
 

Ben-

The guy in Nyack is John Womack (spelling?).  In the good old days he was
the service rep for LRNA for the northeastern area (I am not sure that there
was an official service rep designation..but for the purposes of this note
"service rep" fits his description).  He was LRNA's northeastern "field
mechanic"..that is to say, if you had a problem with your LR he'd come to
your place and fix it for ya.  Although I was but a tike in those days, I
can vaguely remember him coming to our house to tune our old '60 '88 softop
(rolled in an accident while towing wood for a barn that has since collapsed,
and replaced by a '67 '88 softop that has since been converted into a NON-
tropical NON-alpine windowed "no longer sliding" windowed hardtop but still
runs and works hard just the same).  John is quite the character.  He speaks
with the thickest of british accents interrupted by a consistent-every two
second or fifth syllabel (whichever comes first)-studder.  His sentances are
oftimes begun and ended with a "badeeba bdde badeeba" which actually makes
him more easily understood (you can thereby figure out where the last 
thought ended and the next one begins).  My "sig other" and I stopped in
(I live and work nearby, sorta) about a year ago (I have been back a few
times since to chat rovers) and we talked for about an hour or more about
those good old days.  He was delighted and excited to see me and recalled
those times fixing our '60 amidst horse shit, flys, and little naked kids 
(ie me and my siblings).  He proudly displayed the ID badges from several
rovers that had been owned by others in the town I grew up in (garrison, ny)
and showed me the (remains of) the vehicles owned by people who've since
moved away........cars I used to drip ice cream on, wipe my snot on, and
play around at horse shows, etc. Upon leaving, my "sig other" (who patiently
listened throughout the event-fortunately, she has a cursory interest in
rovers herself) asked "did you understand ANYTHING he said???".  She was
apparently lost throughout, but I had mastered the "catch every fifth word
and extract the meaning of the sentance from there" technique of following
just what it was he was saying to me.

Surprisingly, John is still in the rover business.  As you pointed out,
he does have (and work on) other cars (mostly british...some rovers and
older jags strew his lot), but his true love lies in the big beast of
aluminium.  Although I have not personally used him for mechanical work
(do it all myself-along with the rest of us) I have managed to get some
used bits from him (although I sense he likes to keep them around for 
spares) from time to time.  He does do some resto work (sans painting,
I believe....he is another of us "just drive it and keep it dirty" types
and sees no need for the pristine) and is willing to sell any complete
rovers on his lot (for a price).

If any other of you netters is ever in the metro-NY area a trip to Nyack
for a classic "Womack experience" is highly recommended.  So long as he
is in a good mood and has time to spare, a solid hour or more of roveresque
conversation is guaranteed (just remeber to bring your interpreter).

Cheers all,

rdushin/nige/the roach



Message No 88


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 27 14:19:55 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: FAQ
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 27 Jul 1993 00:03:30 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes:

> One interesting thing that could be put in the FAQ is a comparison between
> the various carbuerators on the 2.25 l engine.  Comparisons could be in
> availibility, price, average mpg, bhp, and max torque.

        It is difficult to quantify this type of data.  Suffice it to say
        that a Solex is original for Land Rover until the late 1960's, and
        the Zenith followed that.  Overall the Zenith is a better carb.  If
        one wants to replace a carb. today, the way to go is with a Weber.
        Solexes are tough to find parts for, Webers are cheap and give you
        an extimated 3 hp & mpg better than a Solex.  I can write this up
        is a clearer fashion in the FAQ, but hard details are really not
        worth the space that will be sacrificed. (Well in general terms
        they will be...)

> phone # tomorrow.  British Pacific deals with only genuine parts and tends
> to be a little more expendsive than Rovers North.

        Send them on...

        Rgds,

        Dixon

        PS.  The FAQ has grown to such an extent, through suggestions
        received thus far, that is is going to be broken up into at least
        two parts to cover the volume of data to be reflected.  Pricing on
        used LR's will have to be divided up by region as in some places
        they are dirt cheap, and in others rather dear.  Condition falls
        into the same catagory.  If you have been looking for a LR for
        years, and have finally found one, going by what I have suggested
        may lead you not to purchase it.  This may be a mistake...

        Keep the comments flowing, the next cut will probably be at least
        2,000 lines.  I'd like to hear from some Aussies on the FAQ, so I
        could cover that market a bit...


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada


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