Land Rover Owner Mailing List
Archive June 1993


Message No 1


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun  1 15:14:15 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 12:06:15 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, leefi@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Rover LWB in Cliffhanger


  My '64 SIIa is the "genuine Rover noise" star in the movie, "The Serpent
And The Butterfly". This is a B horror movie about a beautiful (of course)
athropoligist investigating Voo Doo in Haiti. I spent about four hours out
in a quiet country area with a sound recording engineer from the studio. He
was very consciencious and particular that he was getting things correct, like
he would watch for airplanes (jets up high) and redo a recording if a bird
churrped or there had been a truck off in the distance. He recorded everything
he needed according to a "script" for the land Rover; accelerating,
decelerating, braking, bonnet opening and closing, doors closing, slammimg ect.
  I went to see the movie (of course) even though it would not have been on
my list of movies to see. My wife and I could easily recognize the Rover
sounds from our truck, and I'd say they did an excelent job of putting the
right sounds in the right spots. Maybe the "Rover noise star" in Cliffhanger
*had* a Plymouth engine, but they asked me if mine was all original, before we
cut a deal. 
 See, now you have another reason to keep your Rover stock.

Regards, Bill G.

  

Message No 2


> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 28 22:51:30 1993
> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
> Subject: Rover LWB in Cliffhanger
> Content-Length: 387
> X-Lines: 7
> 
> i saw the movie Cliffhanger this afternoon. in the movie, Stallone's 
> vehicle is a late Series II (perhaps III) LWB with a safari top, 
> gray/green. i don't believe the engine/transmission noises associated 
> with the vehicle in the movie were accurate, it sounded more like the
> V8 in my old Barracuda from high school days... unfortunately, the 
> Rover had a minor role in the movie. :-(
> 
> 



Message No 3


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun  1 15:14:37 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 09:37:00 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk
Subject: Re:  Fuel Deficiency

Ross,
You didn't say which engine you have in your land Rover.  I just put a new
series III readiator in my series II 109 2-1/4 pertol and it seems to be
cooling just fine.  I do have an overflow bottle attached.  I also live
in the cool coastal climate.  You may want to check your thermostat, back-
flush your block and check your timing.

Land Rovers, like the TR3 & 4 (Morgans too) need a special thermostat that has
a movable collar.  There is a radiator bipass pipe that allows water to be
pumped through the engine when the car is cold.  When the thermostat opens,
the collar moves to block the bipass opening and force the water through
the radiator.  If you do not have a special thermostat with the collar,
your radiator (lots of little passages = high resistance) will be connected
in parallel with an open bipass hose = low resistance)  Most of your 
coolent would bipass the radiator when the engine is warm.

When I rebuild my TR3A engine, I'm going to have to check if it takes the same 
diameter thermostat as the Land Rover (proper TR3 thermostats are very hard
to find).

TeriAnn



Message No 4


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun  1 18:14:42 1993
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover!
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 18:01:14 CDT

Reading about TeriAnn and Dixon working on their Land Rovers has gotten me
enthusiastic about working on mine.

I finally had a chance to start working on my Land Rover ('69 IIa 88" petrol)
project this last weekend.  Nice to finally have some time available (another
major project got finished up the weekend before).

First order of business was to pull the rear differential, since the inner
two inches of the right axle was still in inside (twisted off in the diff).
I pulled the drive shaft and removed most of the differential housing nuts.
Then I went around to pull the left axle; I planned on replacing it too since
I didn't trust it, given the fate of its brother.

I pulled the bolts holding the drive flange to the wheel (and I also noted I
am missing a total of three bolts between the two sides).  When I went to
gently pry it loose, it seemed *awfully* loose.  When I took it in my hand I
could *spin* in around with no effort.  Whoa.  THAT shouldn't happen.  I also
couldn't get the axle/flange to come out more than 0.25 inch.  When I've
previously removed half shafts from an Austin Healey Sprite, they came out
with almost no effort whatsoever.  Having a strong suspicion as to what I
might find, I removed the drive flange.  The reason the drive flange was
rotating freely was that there were no longer any splines left inside the
flange.  No more than smooth, very low bumps remained, along with some
buttery black goo (which is where splines go when they die).

Well, that answered that question!  Add one drive flange to my shopping list
(anyone have a serviceable spare from a derelict in their sparebox?  Rovers
North wants $44 for one, which is affordable, but I'd like to find a used for
less - I've already spent more on parts than I did for the Land Rover :( ).

The axle was still rather firmly engaged.  I could wiggle it side to side,
but it would not budge when trying to withdraw it.  I finally resorted to
rigging a gear puller jig, and managed to pull it (with a significant amount
of effort) another inch or so, at which point I ran out of travel with my jig
(the jig was up, so to speak :).  The axle still being firmly attached, I
reattached the drive flange and pryed against it.  There was a sudden soft
"pop" and the axle was free.  When I tried to pull it I discovered that there
was not enough clearance between the Land Rover and the adjacent wall.
Rather than push the Land Rover outside, remove the axle, and push it back
inside by myself, I decided that it was late enough to retire from battle for
the night.

Next step (Friday, hopefully) is to remove the axle and differential.  I will
be *very* curious to see the state of the differential.  Any guesses as to
why the axle was so difficult to remove from the differential?  Is there some
real reason that it should *not* be a smooth sliding fit like I was
expecting?  As a guess, either the axle is half sheared at the differential,
and was thus an interference fit, or perhaps the axle is bent (didn't look
like it from the amount I was able to withdraw before hitting the wall).

Mark



Message No 5


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun  1 20:15:32 1993
Return-Path: <growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 14:35:11 PDT
From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: LR Information Request for Weekend Project

Dixon,

  I get the impression that none of the advise or suggestions that you get
from this alias are worth the effort. Why don't you just continue with the
duct tape, bailing wire and vise-grips. Let us know if your Rover gets down
the driveway and back without requiring repair.

Regards, Bill G.

PS SIIa Rovers don't need ballast resistors.

>          ...a ballast resistor for the Mini (the Rover has the original)...
>
>         I have found that nyloc nuts are really not worth the effort.
>         Rgds,
> 
>         Dixon
> 
> 
> 
> --
> dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
> FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada 
> 



Message No 6


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  2 06:14:55 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Aw,Nuts!
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 12:06:36 BST

Can anyone tell me offhand what thread the two bolts are that fasten
the main gear lever to the bellhousing?This is as distinct from the
two *studs* that fasten it to the gearbox.My heap was missing the bolts when 
I bought it(also the D-shaped cover that fits underneath the mounting),and
as a makeshift remedy then,(five years ago) I Loctited the back studs in,
and made do with that.I did try at the time to find some siutable bolts,
but gave up when I nearly dropped one into the bellhousing.I really*do*
think its about time I did something about it,since it might make gear
changing a little easier:-)
Thanks
Mike Rooth

PS I'm even prepared to have an operation on my wallet,and BUY the two
bolts.Talk about last of the big spenders.....



Message No 7


From shute!twakeman@apple.com Wed Jun  2 11:44:23 1993
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 09:44:11 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover!

Mark,

Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost
of repairs, that is an interesting thing.  Unless you got taken, or had
the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the
fair selling price.  I paid $350 for my 109 in 1978 and towed it home
behind my late series IIA 88.  The previous owner inherited the car and
didn't know to put oil anyplace except the engine.  He ran it until the
rear diff went dry than on 4WD until the transfer case went dry. 
It was in overall poor shape with mostly good body panels.
I got her on the road with a rebuilt diff and new bearings in the transfer
case.  15 years and 200K miles later it was time to pay for the Land Rover.
With a rebuilt engine, rebuilt transmission, new radiator, & assundry parts
I just paid 8 times more than I paid for her to get her back on the road in
decent condition.  But it is nice to have her back on line again.

Now about your axle problem.  New axles can some times be a bit tight, but 
older axles should slide in & out  One possible exception might be a soft metal
axle (I currently have them in mine).  Standard axles are hard steel.  They
have a tendency to crystalize then break.  The soft metal ones are supposed
to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break.  Anyway, mine were a hammer
fit.  Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder
gears) might still be a tight fit.  Ether way, the axle should be clear of the
diff  when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out.  If you still have resistance
and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the
hub side and not the diff.

You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or
you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on 
and the drive shaft attached? 
]
If your other axle broke at the center, or you drove with the broken axle and
rear drive shaft connected, chances are very good you will need a rebuilt 
diff.  

When you break an axle, you should immediatly stop the LR, and remove
both axles and the rear drive shaft  This insures nothing is turning the
diff to get a chunk of metal between the pinion gear and the ring gear
(sudden death).  I've never broken an axle when I have had grubbies on and
the tools in the car so I almost always lost the diff with the axle :*(

You might try calling Jim "Scotty" Howett.  He rebuilds diffs & can also 
probably send you a number of used parts.  And yes I believe he will do
mail order. Jim's number is (510)686-2255 (N.E. S.F. Bay area)

Good luck!

TeriAnn



Message No 8


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  2 11:54:47 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 09:44:11 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover!

Mark,

Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost
of repairs, that is an interesting thing.  Unless you got taken, or had
the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the
fair selling price.  I paid $350 for my 109 in 1978 and towed it home
behind my late series IIA 88.  The previous owner inherited the car and
didn't know to put oil anyplace except the engine.  He ran it until the
rear diff went dry than on 4WD until the transfer case went dry. 
It was in overall poor shape with mostly good body panels.
I got her on the road with a rebuilt diff and new bearings in the transfer
case.  15 years and 200K miles later it was time to pay for the Land Rover.
With a rebuilt engine, rebuilt transmission, new radiator, & assundry parts
I just paid 8 times more than I paid for her to get her back on the road in
decent condition.  But it is nice to have her back on line again.

Now about your axle problem.  New axles can some times be a bit tight, but 
older axles should slide in & out  One possible exception might be a soft metal
axle (I currently have them in mine).  Standard axles are hard steel.  They
have a tendency to crystalize then break.  The soft metal ones are supposed
to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break.  Anyway, mine were a hammer
fit.  Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder
gears) might still be a tight fit.  Ether way, the axle should be clear of the
diff  when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out.  If you still have resistance
and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the
hub side and not the diff.

You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or
you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on 
and the drive shaft attached? 
]
If your other axle broke at the center, or you drove with the broken axle and
rear drive shaft connected, chances are very good you will need a rebuilt 
diff.  

When you break an axle, you should immediatly stop the LR, and remove
both axles and the rear drive shaft  This insures nothing is turning the
diff to get a chunk of metal between the pinion gear and the ring gear
(sudden death).  I've never broken an axle when I have had grubbies on and
the tools in the car so I almost always lost the diff with the axle :*(

You might try calling Jim "Scotty" Howett.  He rebuilds diffs & can also 
probably send you a number of used parts.  And yes I believe he will do
mail order. Jim's number is (510)686-2255 (N.E. S.F. Bay area)

Good luck!

TeriAnn



Message No 9


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  2 12:34:02 1993
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Background on my Land Rover
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 12:22:03 CDT
In-Reply-To: <9306021644.AA23119@apple.com>; from "Teriann J. Wakeman" at Jun 2, 93 9:44 am

TeriAnn says:

> Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost
> of repairs, that is an interesting thing.  Unless you got taken, or had
> the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the
> fair selling price.

Fortunately, I paid a very low price for my Land Rover.  The fact that it had
been derelict for approximately 10 years and abandoned by the previous owner
helped.  It is thus easy to spend more than the purchase price on new parts
through Rovers North (for example, completely new rubber seals, two new
axles, missing carb bits, new rear window, ignition switch (remember, I
didn't get the key with it!), hydraulic rebuild kits, new choke cable, etc,
etc, etc).

One challenge here is that (as a balance for the low purchase price) I have
to discover all the problems on my own - no previous owner to talk to, and no
chance to drive it beforehand.  Though I knew of the broken right axle, I did
not try to disassemble the left axle or differential before purchase - I
figured I'd take them as I found them and deal with them when rebuilding it.

> Now about your axle problem.  New axles can some times be a bit tight, but 
> older axles should slide in & out  One possible exception might be a soft metal
> axle (I currently have them in mine).  Standard axles are hard steel.  They
> have a tendency to crystalize then break.  The soft metal ones are supposed
> to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break.  Anyway, mine were a hammer
> fit.  Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder
> gears) might still be a tight fit.  Ether way, the axle should be clear of the
> diff  when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out.  If you still have resistance
> and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the
> hub side and not the diff.

Yow!  A *hammer* fit?  The sprite was a finger push fit.  I have no idea if
these are the originals or replacements.  They will shortly be replacement new
Land Rover (via Rovers North) axles (halfshafts, I suppose, for the correct
terminology).  The resistance to removal dropped to zero after about four or
five inches of extraction.  I figure all the resistance was extracting the
splines from the differential.

> You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or
> you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on 
> and the drive shaft attached? 

The rear drive shaft was removed at the time.  My suspicion is a partly
twisted inner spline end on the axle (the other was twisted completely off).
I'll know when I remove the axle and diff this Friday.

Mark



Message No 10


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun  5 04:17:29 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: LR Information Request for Weekend Project
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 5 Jun 1993 03:14:41 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec

growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes:

>   I get the impression that none of the advise or suggestions that you get
> from this alias are worth the effort. Why don't you just continue with the
> duct tape, bailing wire and vise-grips. Let us know if your Rover gets down
> the driveway and back without requiring repair.

        Actually they are very useful.  Some, while greatly detailed and
        outlining a series of steps are not appropriate when faced by a
        notary waving a contract stating that the beast must leave the
        property in order to finalise the sale of my house.  This is when
        the duct tape and bailing wire comes into play.  I had roughly a
        month to move out of my house into the new place withour
        assistance.  The Rover was my only form of serious transportation,
        as Mini or Rabbit loads were not going to get me very far very
        fast.

        Now that I am happily ensconced in my new abode, I shall begin to
        make use of the suggestions and advice and fix some of the
        temperary bodge jobs that I have been forced to undertake.  There
        are a nuimber of outstanding problems that are needing to be
        addressed.  Starting with a compression test, replacing the Solex
        with a Weber, replacing the petrol tank, exhaust system, should get
        the vehicle to a more reliable state, or one where it will go more
        than fifty miles without serious sworking at the side of the road.
        On can only carry around boxes of spare parts and a ton of tools
        for so long.

        I have been archiving this mailing list for as long as I have
        received it.  The series on restarting a long dead engine have been
        excellent, despite the final failure of all of the options to
        actually move the pistons without actually extracting the engine.
        In fact a number of people in the Ottawa area read the print-outs
        that I supply (those without modems to connect into my system, or
        who were ldx to my system) on the various trials and tribulations
        of myself and others here.

        While it would be nice to have a Rover that did not require the
        amount of effort that I have poured into mine, the end result will
        be rather satisfying, as well as providing me with the knowledge
        and confidence to effect future repairs and restorative work on the
        beast.  The messages here have given me a great deal of confidence,
        and even if many arrive after I have found a solution, is is
        *greatly* assuring to read that I have done the correct thing.
        Now, if I only had a live InterNet feed rather than the slow uucp
        feed, much wasted effort would be avoided.

        Don't forget, bailing wire, duct tape, and vice grips can get an
        unco-operative vehicle to get somewhere where serious attention can
        be addressed to the failures that have occurred.  They are only
        temperary in nature.  Waiting for parts requires such inventive
        actions, when one really cannot wait for various reasons.   $$$
        availability requires that I get parts from the cheapest, genuine,
        source, and while RN is fairly close, when applied to my bank
        balance, it is far away.

> PS SIIa Rovers don't need ballast resistors.

        This one does.  This is a SIIa that required the headlamps to be
        turned on before the engine will fire.  To get the 109 back to its
        original state is going to be a long task as various "options" are
        removed, and the vehicle put back into its original 1964 state.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada 



Message No 11


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun  7 09:57:12 1993
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: The differential story, answers and questions
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 9:44:26 CDT

A friend and I pulled the rear differential on the Land Rover Friday night.
I now have the dubious pleasure of knowing *exactly* why the rear end self
destructed.  The previous owner had made a permanently locked differential by
arc welding the inside differential gears into one solid mass.  The twisting
forces going around turns must have been tremendous.  No wonder one axle
twisted off completely, and the other wiped out its drive flange.  Other than
the arc welding, the differential is in perfect shape.  :(  I had fully
expected to find a catastrophic failure, broken teeth, etc.  I would have
shrugged and said - "accident, these things happen".  But instead I feel
disappointed that this whole mess was caused by a rather stupid human
action.  Can anyone enlighten me - does locking a differential like this make
any sense, really?  I can understand it for drag racers (straight shot, no
turns), or off road *only* vehicles (mud, snow, sand, or bouncing three
wheels off the ground a lot), but for a *Land Rover*?

Anyhow, I need another differential and two new drive flanges (I looked at
the "good" one, after wiping off grease - the splines are half gone
already).  I've already mentioned that there are *no* used Land Rover parts
available locally.  Does anyone on the list have a line on a decent used
differential?  (I am very serious here - if you have a spare used diff in
your possession, or know of a derelict that you would be willing to snare the
differential from, I would be very willing to buy it from you - email me if
you are interested).  I note Rovers North has used diffs listed for $350,
which if I can't find one significantly cheaper, I'll have to take.  TeriAnn,
you passed along "Scotty" Howett's number earlier - is that where you have
gotten your differentials when you have needed them?  It is possible that
mine is rebuildable - though minimally it will need a matched set of four
differential gears, and probably the differential case (the one the crown
wheel bolts to).  Given this situtation, I am doubtful that mine could be
rebuilt cheaper than buying a new one, but I don't know, having never done
this before - opinions?  Is rebuilding a Land Rover differential something a
Land Rover expert (like Scotty) would be solely capable of, or could a local
differential shop do a competent job?

I spent the weekend fixing wiring.  The p.o. had quite a few interesting
bodge jobs in the wiring harness - there were loose wires lying about all
over, bare ends (no terminals to even help guess where things went).  After a
full day with my meter, I am close to being confident that it will not melt
down immediately when I connect a battery.  A quick run to Radio Shack for
more crimp connectors tonight, and the electrical system will be complete
enough to test with power.  (Speaking of bodge jobs, how does an aftermarket
ammeter (the full current pass through kind (no external shunt)) with the
wiring simply stripped and *wrapped* loosely about the terminals strike you?)

I have a Zenith carb.  The previous choke cable was toast.  I put a new one
on, but am apparently missing some clamping piece to hold the outer sheath at
the carb.  There are two thin parallel slots in a metal braket attached to
the carb.  Is this where it mounts, and if so, what does the mounting
arrangement look like?  Also, is the proper routing of the choke cable over
or under the heater pipes?

The total hydraulic system needs rebuilding, of course.  I note that the
clutch master cylinder is aluminum (whereas the brake master is iron).  I've
rebuilt plenty of iron cylinders, but no aluminum.  Do I recall that there is
a problem rebuilding aluminum cylinders?  Recommended alternative (if so) is
presumably buy a new one?

Mark



Message No 12


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun  7 11:15:39 1993
Return-Path: <ccm!Bruce_Harding@intelhf.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 09:10:03 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: The differential story, answers and questions

          Mark,
          There is a guy locally that is a land rover fanatic.  I was
          buying a slave cylinder rebuild kit the other day and he
          mentioned he have many used parts.  His vitals are:
                    Doug Shipman
                    Ships Landrover Repair/Parts
                    503-252-5566

          All the local LR people I know have had god results working
          with him.  If he doesn't pan out let me know...When I was
          showing my autos's at the Portland British Field meet last
          year a person named Ken Hillard gave me his card and told me
          about his LR business...he's located in Yakima, WA I beleive
          (I have his card at home).  Good luck.
          Bruce Harding
          Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com


Anyhow, I need another differential and two new drive flanges (I looked at
the "good" one, after wiping off grease - the splines are half gone
already).  I've already mentioned that there are *no* used Land Rover parts
available locally.  Does anyone on the list have a line on a decent used
differential?  (I am very serious here - if you have a spare used diff in
your possession, or know of a derelict that you would be willing to snare the
differential from, I would be very willing to buy it from you - email me if
you are interested).  I note Rovers North has used diffs listed for $350,
which if I can't find one significantly cheaper, I'll have to take.



Message No 13


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  9 16:51:27 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 17:36:44 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: New Old LandRover Owner


Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now.  Last weekend
I bought a '69 IIa SWB and today it passed inspection here in Mass.
Before I even had the inspection sticker, I had an order in to
Rovers North for $500 in various parts and more are on the way.

Interesting vehicle to drive...  I've done Bondurant's and done track
time so I like to do a proper heel-toe, rev-matched, double-declutched
downshift when I'm driving (you're either on the throttle or on the
brake or you're not driving).  Doing this in the LR, however, is
another matter :-).   Heel-toe really *is* heel-toe in there.  Since
I'm usually using a synchro'd transmission, my double declutching is
really an anti-wear measure, in the 3rd-to-2nd in the LR, it's required.
I'm getting much better/smoother at it as a result.  But putting all
the pieces together, it whines, it shimies, and a decidedly non-linear
steering mechanism make it all a real workout...  I am having fun...

This weekend I'm planning on replacing all shocks (they're pumping
air at the moment), front springs, misc. electrical bits and maybe
some seals if the RN order comes in time.  I have a can of honest-to-
god triethyl lead to fix up the fuel but a valve job with hardened
seats will eventually happen.  Probably work on the front bearings
too; I have a bit too much endfloat at the moment...

This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for

Message No 14


some parts I'd like to get.  Mainly, an overdrive unit.  From the
diagrams, it looks like this fits on the back of the transfer case
and replaces what I'll call the idler shaft in the transfer unit...
(Is that right?)  Like to hear recommendations and suggestions on
such a beast.  RN has a Fairley unit for something like $800; I'd
like to do better than that if possible (wouldn't mind rebuilding one).
Would also like an oil pressure sending unit and an original heater
valve....

How does one replace the side and rear door latches?  If possible,
I'd like to get matching locking units.  Generally isn't necessary but
I would like the option of having the beast minimally secured when
parked in the open....

RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings.  Has anyone
tried these?  Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge?

Also talked to RN about replacing the frame.  It's not something I
need to do yet but it would be an interesting project.  They've had
people do it in a (long) weekend.  I asked them if they have anything
like the tech bulletins in their newsletter on frame replacement and
they said no but they've had offers/suggestions of making a video
of LR repair including frame work.  Give them a call and encourage them...
this would be a 'Good Thing'.

Guess I need a name for the beast, too....

Monty



Message No 15


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  9 18:04:19 1993
Return-Path: <ccm!Bruce_Harding@intelhf.intel.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 15:59:00 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: New Old LandRover Owner

>Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now.  Last weekend
>I bought a '69 IIa SWB and today it passed inspection here in Mass.

    Congratulations...they are different than anythong else you'll
    drive (as it sounds like you've found out).  If the tranny is stock,
    1st and 2nd are not synchromesh.  I have to double clutch into 2nd.
    It's a bit harder to downshift into 2nd but it can be done without
    grinding although it's easier to leave it in 3rd and push hard on the
    accelerator.
    
>This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for
>some parts I'd like to get.  Mainly, an overdrive unit.

    I would recommend this is you will do any driving over 55mph or
    have any steep hills to climb.  I have a Fairey OD on mine and I
    can hold 65-70mph on a flat with no problem (I like to pass people
    in MB and BMW's doing 75 and look at the expression on their
    faces).  The OD also allows you to split shift when driving up
    steep hills.  Without it stay off to the far right so the traffic
    can pass.
    
>How does one replace the side and rear door latches? 
    I don't think removing them is a big deal.  The door keys on mine
    are different that the rear door.  I don't know if this is stock or
    not.  You may want to just remove the locks and take them to a locksmith
    to re-key them (I don't know if this is possable but seems cheaper than
    new locks).
    

>RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings.  Has anyone
>tried these?  Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge?
    I have these on mine.  They were put on when the swivel pins were
    replaced 15k miles ago.  The seem to be holding up fine.  I would
    think it's better to stop all the grunge from getting on the swivel
    pins.

>Guess I need a name for the beast, too....
    I can't think of a more approiate name then 'beast'.

Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
70 Series IIa 88"



Message No 16


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  9 18:27:44 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 22:47:08 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Monty's new rig


Monty-

many congrads on your new purchase.

as for leather gaiters-i, too would like to see some comments from
other lro's on this.  i considered purchasing some while i did the 
swivel pin housing seals on nigel, but backed off.  RN told me that
they were a good idea if you plan on doing lots of off roading in 
the mud and sand, but were otherwise not really of any benefit.  i 
am planning on replacing my cones and springs (within the swivel
pin housing) with a raliko bush setup in the coming months (never did
entirely get rid of my front end shimmy and have traced the problem
to a) a partially worn spline that fits within my r/s cone and b) the
cones themselves-original circa 1960's....i am told by RN that the new
bush setup comes with new splines that have to be press fit into the 
lever controlling the angle of the swivel pin housing).  i figure that
while i do the new bush setup i will reconsider the gaiters.

many people over the past several years i've watched this list have 
posted questions on overdrives......the consensus seems to be BUY NEW.
$800 does not seem that rediculous to me-but then again, nigel came with
a fairey unit as was.  after enjoying it for a year now, i am not sure
i will ever own a road-worthy rover without one.  splurge!

framejob in a weekend??  good luck.  better wait 'til the off season
(if there ever is one with a LR).

Rovon!
rd



Message No 17


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun  9 19:19:42 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 22:47:08 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Monty's new rig


Monty-

many congrads on your new purchase.

as for leather gaiters-i, too would like to see some comments from
other lro's on this.  i considered purchasing some while i did the 
swivel pin housing seals on nigel, but backed off.  RN told me that
they were a good idea if you plan on doing lots of off roading in 
the mud and sand, but were otherwise not really of any benefit.  i 
am planning on replacing my cones and springs (within the swivel
pin housing) with a raliko bush setup in the coming months (never did
entirely get rid of my front end shimmy and have traced the problem
to a) a partially worn spline that fits within my r/s cone and b) the
cones themselves-original circa 1960's....i am told by RN that the new
bush setup comes with new splines that have to be press fit into the 
lever controlling the angle of the swivel pin housing).  i figure that
while i do the new bush setup i will reconsider the gaiters.

many people over the past several years i've watched this list have 
posted questions on overdrives......the consensus seems to be BUY NEW.
$800 does not seem that rediculous to me-but then again, nigel came with
a fairey unit as was.  after enjoying it for a year now, i am not sure
i will ever own a road-worthy rover without one.  splurge!

framejob in a weekend??  good luck.  better wait 'til the off season
(if there ever is one with a LR).

Rovon!
rd



Message No 18


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 03:43:51 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Gaiters
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 9:35:09 BST

A mate of mine who had a a '80 S11 88" rebiult his front axle,including
new swivel housings.He also added gaiters.The people who sold him the parts
advised him to fill the gaiters with grease after fitting.He did.Worked fine,
no grot can get to the chrome housings through all *that* grease.
As for O/D units,I wish I could afford one.Who knows,I *might* just be able
to reach the dizzy speed of 50mph:-)Go for it.
Incidenally,for S11 above,read S111.
You are certainly going to be busy.Just how many days *do* you people have
in a weekend?:-)
Congratulations,and enjoy yourself.
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 19


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 04:16:39 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Gaiters
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 9:35:09 BST

A mate of mine who had a a '80 S11 88" rebiult his front axle,including
new swivel housings.He also added gaiters.The people who sold him the parts
advised him to fill the gaiters with grease after fitting.He did.Worked fine,
no grot can get to the chrome housings through all *that* grease.
As for O/D units,I wish I could afford one.Who knows,I *might* just be able
to reach the dizzy speed of 50mph:-)Go for it.
Incidenally,for S11 above,read S111.
You are certainly going to be busy.Just how many days *do* you people have
in a weekend?:-)
Congratulations,and enjoy yourself.
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 20


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:53:18 1993
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available...
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 11:17:31 CDT

Weren't folks (specifically you, Dixon) saying that rebuild kits for Solex
carburetors were no longer available?  I just bought a rebuild kit for my
Zenith, and thought I would ask (out of curiosity) if they could get a kit
for a Solex.  The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they
needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit.

Perhaps they are mining a lode of unexhausted Solex parts kits?  Does anyone
want me to pursue this farther?

Mark



Message No 21


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:55:13 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 08:47:05 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  New Old LandRover Owner

Monty,
Congradulations on your new purchase!

I have the leather gaters over my swivel ball joints.  I think they are good
insurance.  They are not very hard to put on & protect the swivels and the
seals. pitting is the enemy on the swivels.  If you live in a place where
there are corrosives on the road I would consider them a must.

RE: Overdrives.  They do indeed replace a plate on the back of the transfer
case.  Beware of used ones, they are normally worn out.  I would save up for a
new one then be sure to keep it full of oil
Oil  Hmm that reminds me... FREQUENTLY check the oil levels in the transmission,
transfer case (opening half way up on back), both front swivel ball housings,
and both diffs.  You do not know how fast these are leaking oil and you
really do not want any of these to run dry.  It gets very expensive very fast.

Transmission- Do not try to speed shift these.  all the gears need to cone to 
a complete halt at the middle of the 'H'.  This is especilally true of the
all syncro series III transmission. failure to do so will after a while 
result in little mettal pices littering the inside bottom of the transmission
housing. Don't litter.  4th gear is always the prefered gear to minimize
wear on the transmission.

rear axles-  These crystalize over time.  Crystalized axles break. If
you do not know how long yours have been in, it wouldn't hurt to
replace both with new ones.

New frame-
Yah, right, pull the entire drive train, including front and rear axles,
all the steering stuff, the body and install all this onto a new frame in
one week end.  right.  You say there were about 10 trained Land Rover mechanics
working on the job and all the bolts were new before they started?

TeriAnn
'60 109 two door



Message No 22


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:58:21 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 12:11:55 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  New Old LandRover Owner


Sounds like the gaiters are a good idea...  Plenty of salt here in NE
so a pair will be secured...

Guess I will get a new Fairey unit.  Looks like another call to RN is
in the works.  Has anyone installed one of these after-the-fact?  Does
it require a new hole and boot in the floor or does the stick come
up through an existing hole?  It's not clear from the picture in the
catalog....

>New frame-
>Yah, right, pull the entire drive train, including front and rear axles,
>all the steering stuff, the body and install all this onto a new frame in
>one week end.  right.  You say there were about 10 trained Land Rover mechanics
>working on the job and all the bolts were new before they started?

The story was, it was a *long* weekend, Thanksgiving to be precise.
Didn't replace everything he should have, like shackle bolts, etc. and
had to do these as they fell apart soon after the reframing.  Another
guy did one in a week and the RN person on the phone did one in a
month of evenings.  A minimum of 40 hours work was the estimate he
gave.  It sounds like a rewarding project: to have a LandRover with
a pristine frame.  Oooh, aaah!

This weekend I'll be doing the shocks and front springs (lists just
slightly to port) and will be playing Mr. Petroleum Products to top
off all the oil/grease consuming bits.

Another question:  does the timing chain wear badly?  Should I consider
replacing it and the tensioner just as a precaution?  

And where do most people mount the Blaupunkt?  :-)

monty



Message No 23


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:58:21 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca
Subject: Parts!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:36:45 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Finally!  A parts order from Merseyside arrives.  New door hinge
        rebuild kits (to replace some ugly stove bolts), a new petrol tank
        (to replace an army gerry can and a sediment filled original tank),
        the adapter plate for the Weber, and a silencer/tail pipe assembly.

        Looks like this may be a Rover weekend as I undertake the fitting
        of all of these nice new parts... <grin>  It may even be ready for
        some serious off-road activities next weekend at the OVLR
        camping/birthday party.  I understand they have been setting up
        some rather challenging courses for us to try out...

        It feels like Christmas!

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 24


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:59:19 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Late breaking news...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:43:33 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Though I lack the original article, the London Telegraph had an
        article on the Discovery this past Tuesday.  Apparently, Rover
        has signed an agreement with Honda to rebadge the Discovery under a
        Honda label and sell it in Japan.  Rover has rejected suggestions
        that this move will devalue the LR name, but says that it is a
        tribute to quality English workmanship.  This is the first time
        that a Japanese firm has taken a foreign produced vehicle and
        rebadged it with a Japanese name.

        The version to be shipped will be the SWB softtop edition with roll
        bar, alloy wheels, 2.5TDi engine.  The article I am told also says
        that it will be the petrol version.  Somehow the engine and petrol
        do not seem to go together very well...

        Last year Rover sold 800 vehicles through 35 dealerships.  With the
        Honda version, it will be sold through the large Honda dealership
        network.  Production is expected to increase by some fifty cars a
        week to meet the demand.

        Honda owns 20% of Rover Group.

        List price is expected to be the Japanese equiv. of 15,995 pounds.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 25


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 19:04:16 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: New Old LandRover Owner
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:26:59 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss. writes:

> Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now.

        Congradulations.  It is nice to hear that another LR has found a
        happy home and will continue to work for many more years.

> This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for
> some parts I'd like to get.  Mainly, an overdrive unit.

        Buy one new.  Finding a used one can be very difficult, and at
        $800 from RN, it is a worthwhile investment.

> If possible, I'd like to get matching locking units.

        Actually, I have never seen one with matching locks.  Both drivers
        door and rear door have different keys.

> RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings.  Has anyone
> tried these?  Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge?

        They are a good thing, but only worth fitting if you are planning
        to attack the swivel housing to replace seals or parts.  To remove
        all of the various parts to put the gaiters in place can be a
        formidible task.  I would wait until you need to undertake other
        preventative measures.

> Guess I need a name for the beast, too....

        Hmmm, until I think of something, "swamp beast" is reserved up here
        :-)  Actually it should probably be "tundra beast"... :-)

        Rgds.

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 26


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 23:41:03 1993
Return-Path: <jory@Athena.MIT.EDU>
From: jory@athena.mit.edu
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: misc rover rantings
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 00:31:24 EDT


door locks: 

when i got my rover, the rear lock was inoperational...
and the side locks were only marginally so... i ended up replacing
all the lock cylinders, so now everything is on the same key

note to monty (and other botson area roverists): 
i recently had some spare keys made by a really
good locksmith who used to have a land rover

machina locksmith
(al kamishlan)
3 porter street
watertown ma  02127
617-923-1683
mobile: 617-694-3990

i am sure he coud advise you on your options...


frame replacement: 

i once did a frame replacement on a chevy suburban
in less than 30 hours (although we did gain access to a 20 ton hoist and 
3 people)... this job included a conversion from 2-4 wheel drive and 
automatic to standard... admittedly, things needed a bit of fine tuning
during the next 6 months or so    ;)

my (rover) frame replacement took probably 200 hours spread over almost
3 months... (jeez, your descriptions of weekend rover frame jobs makes
me feel slothful in the extreme)... but then again, my rover has been
cursed by satan and absolutely everything went wrong (and i had
pretty much no assistance which made parts of the project kinda 
interesting) i also did paint (since the body panels were a
misfit bunch) and a bunch of other jobs "while it's apart..."
if i spent one more day waiting for the ups guy...

i must say that after this adventure/ordeal, my motivation to work on
the vehicle has declined precipitiously, anyone else experienced this type
of reaction... (it's been almost a year) perhas it is just that there
is no other rover enthusiasts to work with, since dixon's tales of
ovlr "work" sessions sounded kind o fun, and i also kind of liked the few 
times i have had stuff done at RN (warranty work on a rebuilt gearbox 
for example) & charlie let me assist and do other misc work... but in
this case, there was also definite joy to be derived from toiling in 
one of the most pleasing working environments i have ever encountered
(good equipment, all the parts you could ask for, beautiful space/
building (building for that matter!) experts all round, other rovers
being worked on and driven, etc...     :)

note to all (especially monty and other in the new england area):
 
thinking about parts from RN, just wanted to take this moment to reiterate
never to get anything from DAP in wareham mass... when i first had my rover
and didn't know about RN (and a while after i did know, and was just
plain stupid) i had got parts from there and had fred monsee do some work with
parts from there... absolutely every major component i sourced from DAP
failed in some manner... usually incurring greater costs that the original
problem... 

a couple examples of my getting DAPped": 

i got DAP springs, and within 1.5 years they were so fucked
that during the frame replacement rebuild i thought the new frame was 
geometrically incorrect since the drive shafts would not mate properly
(the front springs were totally arched, with no spring and the rear were
flat) when i took these to a frame place for rearching, they said it wasn't
worth it, since the metal sucked, and they would have guessed the age of
the spring was more than 10 years...

i had an engine rebuild done, 2 years after which, various rocker-area hardware
had failed ("bad metallurgy") such that not only did i have to redo the upper
engine, but my crankshaft was hosed...

i could go on, but i guess this will (at least temporarily) satiate my desire
to expound the evils of DAP...

finally:

anyone have info on the rover rally type thingy happening in maine later
this month? 

later,

jory



Message No 27


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 00:09:59 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 01:01:04 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: misc rover rantings


>note to monty (and other botson area roverists): 
>i recently had some spare keys made by a really
>good locksmith who used to have a land rover
>
>machina locksmith
>(al kamishlan)
>3 porter street
>watertown ma  02127
>617-923-1683
>mobile: 617-694-3990

I'll keep him in the file but my problem isn't so much that the lock
cores don't match (true they don't) but I don't even have one on the
passenger side.  The latch/lock mechanism appears to be bolted/rivetted
from the inside of the door and so not easily replaced.  The rear and
driver door locks have cores but no pins, *any* key opens them.  That's
actually fine with me, who thinks to look for a broken core?

Jory, sorry to hear about your troubles...  Driving to VT is a hell
of a trip for warranty work...  Hadn't heard about DAP but I thought
there was some (disreputable) outfit in the Dedham area.  I knew 
about RN so I never considered any local options for parts.

monty



Message No 28


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 03:51:24 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Discojap
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 9:43:53 BST

Sounds like the Daily Telegraph has *really* got its knickers in
a twist:-)Disco *soft top*? SWB?Balls!And since the Range Rover,
or so I hear,is *the* status car in Japan along with the Jag,and sells
quite happily as Range Rover why the change of name?Strike me as yet
another example of Land Rover propping up the entire Rover group,as they
have done since the S1 first came out.I agree it is a downgrading of the
Land Rover name.If this goes on,I can see another outcry similar to the
one when either Ford or GM tried to buy out British Leyland,when Baggie
Thatcher was in power.They admitted they didnt want any part of the group
except Land Rover.You can still see Land Rovers over here with "Keep Land
Rover Britsh" stickers left over from that time.There was one *hell* of a
row,and of course,the deal was blocked.My feeling,for what its worth(ie not
a lot)is that if Honda want an off-roader let them build their own.We've got
enough japcrap japjeeps over here as it is without turning Land Rover into
another one.Makes me so spitting mad(as you may have guessed)
Sorry about the soapbox,and thanks for the info Dixon.
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 29


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 10:05:17 1993
Return-Path: <bellas@gamma.tti.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 07:56:31 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  Late breaking news...


>Apparently, Rover has signed an agreement with Honda to rebadge the Discovery 
>under a Honda label and sell it in Japan.
><.....>
>This is the first time that a Japanese firm has taken a foreign produced 
>vehicle and rebadged it with a Japanese name.

I believe that Mazda takes Ford Explorers and rebadges them for sale under
the Mazda nameplate, and have been doing so for several years.

I see nothing wrong with rebadging as long as they don't want to muck with
the internals (like puting a honda v6 in it). Keeping up sales volume some-
times means doing things like this, and I would very much like to see Rover
stay healthy. Just MHO.

			-Pete-



Message No 30


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 20:21:37 1993
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:12:05 -0700
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  New Old LandRover Owner

The timing tensioner is usually the first to go.  When it is on its way out,
you will hear a sound on startup that sounds like bad bearings ubtil the oil
pumps up the tensioner.  Everything is probably OK until then.

Assuming you can hear the radio over the engine & gears, many people have
put a wooden shelf over the windscreen (mounts to the edges of the top).
They put radios, speakers, amps, CBs & more up there.  The antennal goes on the 
right wing.

TeriAnn

And You didn't think i knew the answer to the Blaupunkt question



Message No 31


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 01:44:18 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sat, 12 Jun 1993 01:03:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes:

> Weren't folks (specifically you, Dixon) saying that rebuild kits for Solex
> carburetors were no longer available?  I just bought a rebuild kit for my
> Zenith, and thought I would ask (out of curiosity) if they could get a kit
> for a Solex.  The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they
> needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit.

        I would certainly be interested in hearing if the kits could
        actually be obtained.  When I tried last summer, most places said
        they could get them, but when it came to produce, they couldn't.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 32


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 10:51:54 1993
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available...
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 10:45:21 CDT
In-Reply-To: <skm15B1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Jun 12, 93 1:03 am

> > for a Solex.  The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they
> > needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit.
> 
>         I would certainly be interested in hearing if the kits could
>         actually be obtained.  When I tried last summer, most places said
>         they could get them, but when it came to produce, they couldn't.

I understand, and have run into the same thing before.  If you want me to
check, I need the number off the carb.

Mark



Message No 33


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 13:28:05 1993
Return-Path: <smb002@central1.lancaster.ac.uk>
Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Sat, 12 Jun 1993 19:15:25 +0100
From: Ross <smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk>
Subject: carb rebuild kits
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro)
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 19:15:21 +0100 (BST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 674

Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber service kits for
 most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, diagphragms, gaskets 
seals, idle screws, springs etc... they do not include new jets however.

They are availbale from mail order, direct from

Demon Tweeks
Hugmore Lane
LLan-y-pwll
Wrexham
Clwyd
United Kingdom
LL13 9YE

International phone number 44 978 664466 Fax: 44 978 664467

Exmaple of prices (from their colour catalogue, in pounds sterling, no VAT)

Stromberg 175CD (Range Rover) 9.64
Weber DCOE                   10.10
Ford VV                      16.00

They can also supply kits for aisan, zenith, solex, pierberg, nikki 
etc type carbs.



Message No 34


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 13 01:50:49 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca
Subject: Saturday in the bush...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 13 Jun 1993 00:51:41 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Another Saturday has past, and the beast is some 35 miles away in
        Almonte where further work shall be undertaken to ready it for its
        safety.  A fringe benefit of its new temperary home, is that it is
        at the site of next weekends OVLR birthday party... :-)

        I must admit, that towing a trailer with a dead Mini down a divided
        highway does have its moments.  Some brave souls are happy to fly
        by at warp speed, while others like to hang back behind me for some
        unexplained reason.  But alas, I am now down the three cars, two of
        which function, not counting a tempermental Land Rover.

        While finding a home for the trailer behind one friends place,
        through a rough field, the bouncing managed to rock the engine-
        radiator enough to cause the hose to blow off.  Not that I really
        noticed at the time, as I dumped the trailer and headed off to a
        second friends place to play in the woods and test out some of the
        proposed trails for next weekends adventures.

        They are good trails... :-)  Some can be only taken with extreme
        care, and robably a good bit of winching.  Next weekend is going to
        be an occassion for a lawn chair, a case of beer, and a good site
        to watch the fun when it is not my turn (assuming the beast is
        ready).  Other trails are for swb's only.  Some of the turns are
        just too sharp for a 109 to get around the trees...   Onther trails
        are bouncy enough, that the spare 2.25l engine wedged in the back
        came loose and bounced around in the back of my 109.  Happily the
        carpet and plywood saved all from serious damage.

        We did manage to get one '62 swb stuck quite well, and after
        extracting it with a second, the over enthusiastic driver forged
        forward, bounced up over a large stump, and landed on the stump
        with a mighty crash.  It now has a rather dented frame, as well as
        having ripped the frame support under the petrol tank mostly off.
        Oh well, he is a welder with the Federal Science & Tech. museum, so
        all is expected to be back to normal for next weekend.

        As for my beast, the Solex has been replaced with the Weber.
        Despite assurances by various people that this change over is
        straight forward and simple, well it is and it isn't.  The air
        intake hone and adapter for a Solex is too large for a Weber.  One
        needs to get the air intake adapter off of a later vehicle
        (something to locate...) and the throtle linkage is also wrong for
        the conversion.  One must remove the brass bushing from the linkage
        and put it on the other side so you can get all of the necessary
        clearences for it to work correctly.  When ordering the Weber, one
        must also remember to order the adapter as the normal bolt pattern
        for a Solex is about 90 degrees out.

        Tomorrow I guess the process of changing over the petrol tank will
        be undertaken.  As for the silencer, they sent me the wrong one.
        The silencer for a swb will not cut it for a 109.  Now to see how
        my friends in England deal with this screw-up.  My fax clearly
        stated that the 109 was a 109, NADA Station Wagon, wit the serial
        number.  Kind of hard in my books to make such a goof...  Oh well,
        another in the club needs one, so this time I can unload it at my
        cost.  I'd rather be saved the trouble...

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 35


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 13 10:11:32 1993
Return-Path: <moore@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 14:59:21 GMT
From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV)
To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov
Subject: Expspensive fuses

> 
> And where do most people mount the Blaupunkt?  :-)
> 
> monty
> 

    Following the adage that British headlamps will blow in order to
    protect the fuse, the Blaupunkt is a most exspensive fuse. Exactly what
    are you trying to protect? };-)


    					Mark
    					--0-
    					moore@fsl.noaa.gov
    					NOAA - Boulder, CO USA
    	1961 Land Rover 109      1974 Norton Commando



Message No 36


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 14 15:13:43 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:02:37 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re: misc rover rantings

>jory asked:
>
>anyone have info on the rover rally type thingy happening in maine later
>this month?
 
Here is the information as I (a former Maineiac) have it:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
       MID-COAST MAINE - JUNE 26TH, 27TH, 1993
                      "DOWNEAST" V
            INTERNATIONAL LANDROVER RALLY
 LandRover- RangeRover - Defender - Discovery - Rover cars
         from Canada - United States - Europe

   Saturday 6/26: Acadia National Park
         Breakfast 7-9 a.m. Searsmont, Me.  Evening BBQ at beach
   Sunday 6/27:  Airshow at Owls Head Transportation Museum, Owls Head, Me.
         LandRover clubs - Companies - Awards - Buy - Sell - Swap - Trade

          Information on "Downeast" and local accomodation contact:
       Myles J. Murphy, RR2, Box 84, Lincolnville, Maine 04849, U.S.A.

There's also a note that the AROUND THE NEW WORLD IN 80 DAYS expedition
departs the Owls Head Trans. Mus. at 4:00 p.m. on Sunday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wish it were in the cards for me to be there on Sunday.  After all, Owls
Head is only about 15 or 20 miles from the location of my 1957 series I
Station Wagon (in kit form at present).  If you go, say hello to Ted Howard
for me.  He'll probably be there with a series I wagon that looks just like
mine will look someday (except the color).  He may also be showing off a
series I pickup truck that he picked up about two years ago.  I saw that
two years ago, the last time I was able to go to the show, but it was in
the yard of his garage (near mine) where he had towed it.  I drove to his
garage in my car, where I picked up a 109 series II diesel powered pickup
truck to take to the show.  He had driven there in the 107 wagon.  After
you say hello to Ted for me, say hello to Ron and Bernie Mowry.  They are
from West Lebanon, Me, in the Southwest corner of the state, and I imagine
still the Northeast Regional Co-ordinators of the Land Rover Owners
Association USA.  Then find Frank DeLangton and his sons and say hello to
them for me, too.  One of Frank's sons was the driver of the LandRover
pictured in the Rovers North newsletter some time back which had survived a
meeting with a Maine moose. (One of the few examples of Maine wildlife
bigger than the mosquitos.)  
Steve Margolis,    Cornell University,   Ithaca is Gorges, NY
   E-Mail to Steve-Margolis@Cornell.edu



Message No 37


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 12:17:13 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca
Subject: Tuesday night activities...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 15 Jun 1993 23:19:00 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Without a mighty <thunk> the petrol tank of the 109 has been
        changed.  The rusted, sludge filled tank from 1964 has been
        replaced with a nice new tank of a much later vintage...

        Replacing the tank went much smoother than could be imagined.  The
        two recessed bolts at the fore end of the tank came out without to
        much difficulty (thank god), whiile the two rear bolts had to be
        cut off with a grinder.  Overall, the entire effort took about an
        hour, much shorter than I had expected.

        Surprisingly enough, once cleaned up, the fuel guage sender
        actually works.  I now have a general idea on how much fuel I
        actually have.  What a change this shall be from carrying about
        several 20l army jerry cans to refill the one when it suddenly runs
        dry.

        Some observations...  The new tanks supplied are a bit different.
        The replacement tank has a second hole opposite the balancer pipe
        and fuel siphon pipe hole.  This hole is blocked off with a gasket
        and plate, but I wonder which model it is used for.  The hole for
        the fuel sender is also a bit smaller.  We had to cut an eighth of
        an inch off to widen the hole to fit the 1964 sender.  A third
        difference is the lack of baffles inside the tank to limit the
        amount of fuel that sloshes around.

        The adapter plate for the winch was also retrieved from the dead
        engine.  The crank nut had to be drilled off, but now I am able to
        fit the winch to the front of the 109 in preparation for some fun
        this coming weekend... :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon
        '64 109


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 38


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 12:33:15 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Merseyside and wrong parts...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:23:11 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Just a short note on the wrong silencer that I received from
        Merseyside.  I sent them off a fax, quoting my previous fax where I
        described my Rover, serial number, et cetera and asking how they
        could have goofed in such an excellent fashion.  (In fact the fax
        was sent off at 01:05 EST today)

        At 10:02am this morning I had a voice call from Dave at Merseyside
        who not only apologised for the error, but was shipping the correct
        part airmail today at no charge.  the swb silencer is mine to
        dispose of as the cost of returning it is a wee bit high.

        I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their
        willingness to correct a problem.  They have my business...

        I figure that one might as well give credit where it is due, as we
        also tend to rubbish firms that do not perform to satisfaction.

        As for my lwb, a petrol tank gets changed tonight.  News later on
        describing how this effort went...

        Rgds,

        Dixon
        A lwb itching to get into the mud this weekend!  :-)


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 39


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 16:48:33 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 21:37:05 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: new tank


dixon writes:

        Some observations...  The new tanks supplied are a bit different.
        The replacement tank has a second hole opposite the balancer pipe
        and fuel siphon pipe hole.  This hole is blocked off with a gasket
        and plate, but I wonder which model it is used for.  The hole for
        the fuel sender is also a bit smaller.  We had to cut an eighth of
        an inch off to widen the hole to fit the 1964 sender.  A third
        difference is the lack of baffles inside the tank to limit the
        amount of fuel that sloshes around.  

might the fuel siphon pipe hole be there to connect to a second tank placed
beneath the driver's (lhd) seat??  I have heard (thru this list) that one
can remove the toolbox (god forbid) and stick another tank in there (does the
exhaust pipe still clear???)

as for the lack of baffles-this is truely UNFORTUNATE, but then again i 
suppose a rover is rarely subjected to side-to-side forces over a fraction
of a G.

rdushin



Message No 40


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 17:02:28 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: new tank 
In-Reply-To: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu's message of Wed, 16 Jun 93 14:37:05 -0800.
             <9306162137.AA22265@y1.sdsc.edu> 
Date: 	Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:52:31 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

Another possiblity for the blocked off hole in Dixon's new tank is some
sort of evaporative recovery system, that tries to return unburned
fumes to the fuel supply.



Message No 41


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 03:52:34 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: tank
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 9:40:17 BST

The auxiliary tank theory has my vote as well.I've actually seen a
109 so fitted,and it had a filler cap both sides.The vehicle had been
built in Oz,according to its works plate,and had found its way over here.
So the extra blanked off holes could well be for LH fill.Incidentally,if
the"god forbid" indicates a reluctance to sit on top of ten gallons of
petrol,we do it all the time!I qiute thought up till now,that LHD Rovers
had their tank on the opposite side to the RHD versions.Obviously not,so
one lives and learns.Doesnt bother me,though,mines a diesel:-).....Well,
there must be *some* advantages!
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 42


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 05:21:52 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Tanks, tanks everywhere
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 19:30:16 CST

Mike Rooth  UK writes
 
> The auxiliary tank theory has my vote as well.I've actually seen a
> 109 so fitted,and it had a filler cap both sides.The vehicle had been
> built in Oz,according to its works plate,and had found its way over here.

This is a *Very* common modification over here, as are 75L (15 imp gal)
tanks.  A few years back it was also possible to obtain tanks to suit 109
hardtops which fitted in front of the rear wheels but behind the
drivers/passengers seat, these were 45L (10 imp gal) tanks.  Thus it was
possible to carry 240+L (50 gal) of fuel.  If one was lucky enough to own a
late SIII  V8, with constant 4x4,  also sold in Oz with a 3.9 Isuzu diesel
option then all of these tanks could be fitted in addition to the standard
rear 70L station-wagon type tank.  Of course you had to move the battery!
Owners reported that the fuel range was in the order of 1500 - 2000 Miles
with the diesel. 

With this set up LRO's could snear at owners of Jap 4x4's, Unfortunately the
new 80 series Toyotas come standard over here with 190L tanks, and factory
accessory tanks are avail.

Still the Oz assembled Perentie 6x6 (based on the old 110/130 cab chassis) is
fitted with dual 75-80L tanks under the front seats, so maybe one could.....
....... 


-- 

                                       
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
 Darwin  Australia   (Kadadu Country)
 ex 1966 SIIA 109 round roof.
 Currently '82 SIII V8 county wagon  (350,000 + Km  and nearly stuffed :-(



Message No 43


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 09:58:06 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Tanks&Gauges
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 15:46:22 BST

Thanks for clearing that one up,Daryl,but I have a question.How are
these long-range tanks fitted up vis-a-vis the fuel gauge?Are they 
arranged so that the auxiliaries fill the "main" tank,and when its
gauge starts to read less than full,youre looking for a filling station,
or are there senders on each tank so that you can switch the gauge
between them,or what?This aspect of long range Land Rovering has puzzled
me for some time,because it is obviously necessary to know how much fuel you
have left(even if you started out with a lot) particularly,I assume,in the
outback,where suddenly finding you are down to *slightly* less than ten
gallons would be likely to bring on an attack of mild panic.Any ideas?
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 44


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 10:25:23 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Tanks&Gauges
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 16:11:23 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Mike Rooth asks about tanks and gauges on multiple installations.

I have a tank under each front seat of my SWB (I knew there was a good reason
why I'm a non-smoker).  Each has a separate sender unit and fuel outlet.  I
have a switch on the seatbox by my ankles which is a two way petrol switch
combined with a two way electrical switch.  Switch to the right and the
driver's fuel tank is connected to the pump and the corresponding sender to the
gauge.  Flip the switch and the passenger tank is used and its gauge read.  I
have an electric pump and switch tanks on the run if necessary, or just to
check levels.  The twin tanks (not electric fuel pump) were standard on the
Military Lightweights, although standard procedure was to pull over to switch
tanks, according to an ex-driver I know.

Don't know what you do with three tanks... (invade Iraq ?? ;-))

Cheers,
Steve.



Message No 45


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 10:53:31 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 15:41:14 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: god forbid


the "god forbid" comment referred to two concerns:

1) being left WITHOUT a toolbox.........NO rover should be without
a toolbox, and although you could mount one elsewhere, under the sear
(seat, that is) is a convenient place for it (even though it is so
damned small).

2) customizing your rover's body parts and thereby rendering it "box-
stock-NOT".  okokok--you can argue that an additional tank is an 
improvement-i will listen to that-but the concept of hacking away at
the aluminium bothers me.  (note: this concern has been bred into my
blood from years of interest in older british bikes-bikes that are
frequently hacked/chopped/or "bitsa-ed" away from their original state-
perhaps i should just hop off of my (imaginary) ajs 7R and let it be.)

rdushin



Message No 46


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 20:27:35 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: Re: tanks, gauges and the meaning of a stuff up
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 10:37:14 CST

In response to Mike Rooth's questions the answer is ... yes?

The small tanks which fit in front of the rear wheels do not normally have
provision for gauges but I'm sure you could fit them if you really needed to.

On my old '66 SIIA I had two tanks with gauges and two without.  Fortunatly
this vehicle was not equiped with fuel return lines to the tank.  I used two
3-way 3/8" LPG ball control valves.  These are much more expensive than the
common brass type but are infinitely better.  They dont leak, are made of
stainless and use a highly machined ball in a nylon socket as the control
mechanism, whats more they are rebuildable.  These have the added advantage
that fuel flow can be completely stopped.  Thus it was possible to set up
with only 2 control units and a Y piece joining them on the fuel pump side.
Each control unit had 3 positions  Tank 1, Tank 2 and Off. When one tank was
selected on one valve the other was left in the off position.  
Sounds much more complicated than it was.

The problem with this was that you had to manually select both tank and
gauge.  Thus it was possible to have the gauge reading tank 2 whilst you
happily emptied tank 1, whilst marvelling at the remarkable fuel consumption.
 After doing this a couple of times one quickly learnt to empty the tanks
without gauges first so that once fuel became a concern you at least had
some idea of how much was left.


The situation on the SIII V8 is both more complex and more idiot resistant.
As the V8 has fuel return lines to the tanks I didnt relish the thought of
twice as many control valves.  The solution came in the form of Pollack fuel
change over solenoids.  These electrically operated units are available with
3/8" and 1/4" lines in a common valve block and can switch between 2 tanks.

The Wagon has 3 tanks fitted all with senders, so...

I have two fitted, one selects between the rear tank and the fr5ont
auxillaries, the second between the left and right aux.

The neat trick is that the same switch which changes the fuel over can also
switch the gauge unit over.  You simply get a double 2-way switch from any
electronics supply store (like tandys).  On one side you provide the 12v
supply to the change over valve and the other the sender connections.  You
then mount the switches in the dash board such that one toggles from left to
right an the other up and down and hey presto you always know which tank
you're using and how much fuel is left.    
  
Of course you still have to remember to go to the filling station.  :-(
-- 


                                                     |      |
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)               \    / 
  Menzies School of Health Research                    \__/   
  P.O. Box 41096                                        ||   <<
  Casuarina N.T. 0811       _-*_|\---------------------- *  <<
  Australia                /      \                     ||   <<
  Voice : 61_89_228196     \_.--._/                    /||\ 
  Fax   : 61_89_275187           v                    * || o
                                                     /  ||  \    



Message No 47


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 10:35:02 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Tool boxes and batteries
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:26:28 BST

Its a good job youve not got a 11A diesel,Dushin,with the original
bettery arrangement (battery).Not only would it not be possible to
fit a reserve tank,you wouldnt have toolbox either!They were fitted
with two 6v batteries,one under the bonnet,the other guess where.
Cant for the life of me think WHY though.Fortunately mine had been
"semi-rationalised" bfore I bought it and now has a thumping great
12v under the bonnet,*and* I've got my toolbox back.I say "semi"
because some nerd had made up the battery leads from 440v earth
cable,which got decidedly warm on start up each morning,due to the
inadequate cross-section of the cable strands to take the current.
It ended when I looked out of the windshield one morning while
grinding the motor over and thought"hello,its got a bit foggy"
followed by "this fog smells funny......aaaargh" and a mad scramble
to put the fire out.Burnt out the cable and the starter solenoid.
Start of a long saga of "nerd correction measures"that was.
Trouble is the toolbox isnt big enough to carry al the tools I like
to carry,but then I worry too much as well.Mind you I havent got to
Dixon's state yet....carrying a spare engine:-)
Like you I would be *very* reluctant to hack the panels about.Took
a good three months to pluck up enough bottle to cut holes in the
hardtop to put the rear windows in.Turned out that was the *easy*
bit of *that* operation.*Much* better visibility though.
Seen locally....1971 S111 petrol 88" with 6.00 by16 tyres on the
front,and 7.50 by 16 on the back.Think about it.
Cheers
Mike Rooth
:wq

:wq



Message No 48


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 12:13:28 1993
Return-Path: <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Posted-Date:  Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:25:55 -1812
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:25:55 -1812
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Land Rover List 

6/18/93

Here is a collected list of suppliers, dealers, and such pertaining
to the Land Rover. Please comment as to any typos and especially any
comments you would like to pass along as to the various suppliers 
listed (so we can have an annotated list). 

Greg - hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu


Thanks to -
Paul Anderson - ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com
Lee Fisher - leefi@microsoft.com
Mark V Grieshaber - mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Bruce Harding - Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
Jory (last, first ?) - jory@Athena.MIT.EDU
Dixon Kenner - dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
Mike Rooth - M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk
Ross (last, first ?) - smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk
R. Glenn Stauffer - stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu
Teriann J. Wakeman - twakeman@apple.com


******LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA)******

----------
Atlantic British Ltd
Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive
Mechanicville, NY 12118
(800) 533-2210 Orders only
(518) 664-6169 Technical questions
(518) 664-6641 Fax
Free catalog
Lots of aftermarket parts
Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized 

----------
B. Jones & Associates
(Brian Jones)
Import/Export Trading
23 N. West Street,
Allentown, PA 18102
(215) 437-6125

This company imports Land Rovers from England to order.  Generally, they
handle pre-1968 vehicles, Series II and IIa 88" 3-door wagons, 109" 5-door
wagons, 2-door pickups, and 3-door wagons.  They occasionally bring in
Series I 80" or 86" soft or hard-top vehicles.  Other specialized models
can be ordered. (prices from 1.3.93)

Series IIa 109 gas      $6300
               diesel   $6100

Series II  109 gas      $6100
               diesel   $5900


----------
CARS     
Camarillo, CA    
(800) 882-1349
Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They
have recently added Range Rover parts.

----------
The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. 
1043 Kaiser Rd. SW
Olympia, WA 98502   
parts - (206) 866-2254
sales - (206) 866-2381

Bruce Harding writes: "When dealing with these folks you need to verify 
costs and availabilities over the phone or you may be surprised. 
Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special' made." 
He goes on to say: "After all this happened I sent out a message to the group 
asking where people purchased their parts and NOBODY replied they used 
this outfit. I then looked back over my invoice numbers to discover 
they issue an average of 9 invoices a week over an 8 month period...
and several of these were return/backorder invoices of mine. 
I can't believe they sell many LR's as their prices are extremely 
high, although their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business."
Lee Fischer says: "I would go to great lengths to get parts/service 
from any other Rover company that I've dealt with instead of these folks."

----------
D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc.
7 Kendrick Road
Wareham, MA 02571
(508) 291-1311
Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories 
- warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling 

Jory reports some major problems with this outfit: "absolutely every 
major component I sourced from DAP failed in some manner... 
usually incurring greater costs than the original problem..." In particular
he had bad experience with road springs and rocker area hardware.

----------
Jim "Scotty" Howett
(510) 686-2255
Teriann Wakeman says: "He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send 
you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do a mail order."

----------

Machina Locksmith 
Al Kamishlan 
3 porter street 
Watertown, MA 02127
617-923-1683 
mobile: 617-694-3990

Mainly of interest to you in the Eastern half of MA - Jory says that this guy
is a good locksmith and used to have a Rover.

----------
Nisonger 
Victory Gardens, NJ 
(800) 431-2496
Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They
have recently added Range Rover parts.

----------
Rovers North
Box 61 Route 128
Westford, VT 05494
(802) 879-0032
Authorized Land Rover parts supplier
Free catalog
Restoration program:
- Customer must sign up (no cost)
- Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash out", 
you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases based 
on the amount you have purchased up to that point. 

----------
Rover's West Eight Parts
4060 Michigan
Tucson, AZ 85714
(602) 748-8115

----------
Roverworks - New York
800-999-6402 
Land Rovers available:
1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt 
Base Model 88 $17,000 109 Regular       $19,500 109 Safari      $24,000
Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the UK. Prices
start at $5,000) (prices from 1.3.93)
1967 88 hardtop (VG) $ 8,000 
1961 109 Safari $19,000
1967 109 Safari $12,000

Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts. 

----------
Doug Shipman 
503-252-5566
Bruce Harding says that this guy has a lot of used Land Rover parts. 
He reports that many local people have used his services with good results. 


******LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITAIN)******

----------
A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd 
The Showground
The Cliff
Matlock
Derbyshire DE4 5EW 
Tel 0629 584499 
Fax 0629 584498

----------
Demon Tweeks 
Hugmore Lane 
LLan-y-pwll 
Wrexham Clwyd 
United Kingdom
LL13 9YE
International phone number 44 978 664466 
Fax: 44 978 664467 

Ross says: "Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber 
service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, 
diaphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc... 
they do not include new jets however." These kits are available form the
above company. They may have Solex rebuild kits.

----------
Famous Four 
Tattershall Way
Fairfield Industrial Estate
Louth
Lincolnshire LN11 0YA 
Tel 0507 609444 
Fax 0507 609555

----------
John Craddock Ltd.
70-76 North Street
Bridgtown
Cannock
Staffordshire WS11 3AZ 
Tel 0543 577207 or 505408 
Fax 0543 504818

----------
Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd. 
Bridge Industrial Estate 
Speke Hall Road
Speke (Nr. Airport) 
Liverpool L24 9HE 
tel 051 486 8636 
fax 051 486 5986

Dixon reported a problem with an order in that they sent him the wrong
part (silencer) - but he says that they cleared that up promptly and sent 
him a new one (by air their cost) and let him keep the other part.
"I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their willingness
to correct a problem. They have my business... "

----------
P.A.Blanchard & Co. 
Clay Lane 
Shiptonthorpe 
York YO4 3RU 
Tel 0430 872765
Fax 0430 872777 
Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit
civilian versions


******MAGAZINES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS******

LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int. 
2323 Randolph Avenue
New Jersey 07001

Cost $70 US/year

also this address

LRO Publications LTD. 
The Hollies, Botesdale, 
Diss, Norfolk IP22 1BZ 
UK


******LAND ROVER CLUBS******

Land Rover of North America (LRONA) 
PO BOX 6836
OAKLAND CA 94603 USA. 
Editor - Brad Blevins 
2998 Atlantic St
Concord, CA 94518 USA 
voice or fax (510) 687-1188.


******LAND ROVER DEALERS******

Andrew Cadillac Company (615) 373-3800
Maryland Farms
Brentwood, TN 37024

Aristocrat Motor Company, Inc   (913) 677-3300
9400 West 65th Street
Shawnee Mission, KS 66203

Ascot Imported Cars, Inc.       (412) 741-3300
418 Walnut Street
Sewickley, PA 15143

Autohaus Tischer, Inc   (301) 498-7400
3225 Ft. Meade Road
Laurel, MD 20707

Automaster      (802) 985-8482
Route 7 Box 220
Shelburne, VT 05482

Baker Motor of Charleston, Inc. (803) 577-3885
1081 Morrison Drive
Charleston, SC 29403

Barney Garver Motors    (713) 869-4855
7025 Katy Road
Houston, TX 77024

Bauer Motors    (714) 971-5550
2025 South Manchester Avenue
Anaheim, CA 92802

Baxter Chysler-Plymouth, Inc.   (402) 493-7800
11910 West Dodge Road
Omaha, NE 68154

Benson Motor Company    (504) 522-2365
2001 St. Charles Avenue
New Orleans, LA 70130

Berndt Classic Imports  (414) 543-3000
2400 South 108th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53227

Bill Jacobs Motorsport, Inc.    (708) 357-1200
1564 West Ogden Avenue
Naperville, IL 60566

Bluff City British Cars, Inc.   (901) 743-4422
1810 B Getwell Road
Memphis, TN 38111

Bob Moore Cadillac, Inc.        (405) 232-0381
400 North Walker
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

Brandywine Motor Cars, Inc.     (215) 696-1220
715 Auto Park Boulevard
West Chester, PA 19382

British Motor Car Distributors, LTD (415) 776-7700 
901 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94109

Carousel Automobiles    (612) 544-9591
8989 Wayzata Boulevard
Minneapolis, MN 55426

Chaisson Motor Cars     (702) 871-1010
2333 South Decatur Boulevard
Las Vegas, NV 89102

Cherry Hill Imports, Corp.      (609) 665-5370
2261 Route 70 West
Cherry Hill, NJ 08002

Cole European   (415) 935-2653
2103 North Main Street
Walnut Creek, CA 94596

Continental Cars Limited        (808) 537-5365
1069 South Beretania Street
Honululu, HI 96814

Don Rasmussen Company   (503) 226-0380
2001 SouthWest Jefferson Street
Portland, OR 97201

Don Snell Buick, Inc.   (800) 231-3445
11400 North Central Expressway
Dallas, TX 75243

Fields Range Rover      (407) 695-9100
265 North Highway 17-92
Longwood, FL 32750

Foreign Motors West, Inc.       (508) 655-5350
235 North Main Street
Natick, MA 01760

Frankel Cadillac Company        (410) 484-8800
201 Reisterstown Road
Baltimore, MD 21208

Fred Lavery Company     (313) 645-5930
499 South Hunter Boulevard
Birmingham, MI 48009

Frederick Cadillac, LTD (206) 728-7900
2301 6th Avenue
Seattle, WA 98121

Gengras Motor Cars      (203) 522-6134
One Weston Park Road
Hartford, CT 06120

Great Britains  (215) 443-5900
Old York Road & Penn Turnpike
Willow Grove, PA 19090

Gregg Motors    (805) 682-2000
402 South Hope Avenue
Santa Barbara, CA 93105

Grubbs European Motors, Inc.    (817) 560-9000
2900 Alta Mere Drive
Fort Worth, TX 76116

Gunn Infinity/Range Rover       (512) 824-1272
750 N.E. Loop 410
San Antonio, TX 78217

H.B.L., Inc.    (703) 442-8200
8545 Leesburg Pike
Vienna, VA 22180

Haron Motor Sales       (209) 237-5533
2222 Ventura Avenue
Fresno, CA 93721

Haywood-Clarke Rover    (804) 379-3510
11650 Midlothian Pike
Midlothian, VA 23113

Hendrick Imports        (704) 535-0885
6950 East Independence Boulevard
Charlotte, NC 28227

Hennessy Cadillac, Inc. (404) 261-5700
3040 Piedmont Road
Atlanta, GA 30305

Holiday Automotive, Inc.        (806) 359-2886
4600 Canyon Drive
Amarillo, TX 79109

Holts House of Vehicles, Inc.   (716) 334-0880
3925 West Henrietta Road
Rochester, NY 14623

Hornburg Jaguar, Inc.   (213) 272-7737
9176 Sunset Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90069

Hornburg Jaguar, Inc.   (213) 453-3377
3300 Olympic Boulevard
Santa Monica, CA 90404

Hubacher Cadillac, Inc. (916) 929-2777
#1 Cadillac Drive
Sacramento, CA 95823

Jack Kaplan's, LTD      (401) 461-2000
206 Elmwood Avenue
Providence, RI 02907

Keller Motor Car Company        (518) 785-4197
1111 Troy-Schnectady Road
Latham, NY 12110

Knauz Continental Autos, Inc.   (708) 234-1700
1044 North Western Avenue
Lake Forest, IL 60045

Ladd Hanford Jaguar-Volvo       (717) 272-9500
2247 West Cumberland Street
Lebanon, PA 17042

Larry Dimmitt Cadillac, Inc.    (813) 797-7070
25191 U.S. Highway 19 North
Clearwater, FL 34623

Leith, Inc.     (919) 876-5432
5601 Capital Boulevard
Raleigh, NC 27629

Lyle Pearson Company, Inc.      (208) 377-3900
351 Auto Drive
Boise, ID 83709

Midwestern Auto Group   (614) 889-2571
5016 Post Road
Dublin, OH 43017

Newport Imports, Inc.   (714) 722-4000
3000 West Pacific Coast Highway
Newport Beach, CA 92663

Palm Beach Motor Cars   (407) 659-6206
915 South Dixie Highway
West Palm Beach, FL 33401

Paul Miller, Inc.       (201) 575-7750
250 U.S. Route 46
Parsippany, NJ 07054

Pepe Autos Ltd. (914) 949-4000
50 Bank Street
White Plains, NY 10606

Phillips Oldsmolbile, Inc.      (804) 499-3771
4949 Virginia Beach Boulevard
Virginia Beach, VA 23462

Pioneer Centres (619) 695-3000
9020 Miramar Road
San Diego, CA 92126

Pioneer's Land Rover Centre     (303) 920-9888
109 Aspen Airport Business Center
Aspen, CO 81611

Pioneer Centres, Inc.   (303) 751-1500
2950 Havana Street
Aurora, CO 80014

Plaza Motor Company     (314) 569-1311
11830 Olive Street Road
Creve Coeur, MO 63141

Prestige Motors, Inc.   (201) 265-7800
405 Route 17
Paramus, NJ 07652

R.A.B. Motors, Inc.     (415) 454-0582
540 Francisco Boulevard West
San Rafael, CA 94901

Land Rover Land (516) 674-8500
350 Glen Head Road
Glen Head, NY 11545

Range Rover of Darien   (203) 655-7451
1335 Post Road
Darien, CT 06820

Range Rover-Clevland    (216) 932-9460
3020 Mayfield Road
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118

Red Noland Cadillac, Inc.       (719) 633-4633
1260 Motor City Drive
Colorado Springs, CO 80906

Riverside Motor, Inc.   (501) 666-9457
1403 Rebsamen Road
Little Rock, AR 72202

San Jose British Motors (408) 246-7600
4040 Stevens Creek Boulevard
San Jose, CA 95129

Sandia Imports  (505) 884-0066
3400 Menaul Boulevard NorthEast
Albuquerque, NM 87107

Schneider & Nelson, Inc.        (908) 389-1000
270 Highway No. 36
West Long Branch, NJ 07764

Scott Motor Company     (702) 826-0661
2401 South Virginia Street
Reno, NV 89502

Scottsdale Jaguar, LTD  (602) 990-9000
6925 East McDowell Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85257

Shelton Imports, Inc.   (813) 263-6070
850 North Tamiami Trail
Naples, FL 33940

South Bay Autohaus      (310) 534-3333
3233 Pacific Coast Highway
Torrance, CA 90505

Symes Cadillac, Inc.    (818) 795-3381
3475 East Colorado Boulevard
Pasadena, CA 91107

Terry York Motor Cars   (818) 990-9870
15800 Ventura Boulevard
Encino, CA 91436

Tom Williams Motors, Inc.       (205) 252-9512
2200 3rd Avenue South
Birmingham, AL 35233

Tom Wood Range Rover    (317) 848-7447
3473 East 96th Street
Indianapolis, IN 46240

Volkswagen Intermountain - Range Rover (800) 748-4689 
3711 South State Street
Salt Lake City, UT 84115

Warren Henry Automobiles, Inc.  (305) 654-3900
20802 NorthWest 2nd Avenue
Miami, FL 33169

Willians Ford Sales, Inc.       (513) 891-0500
9260 Montgomery Road
Cincinnati, OH 45242

Zumbach Sports Cars, LTD        (212) 582-5613
629 West 54th Street
New York, NY 10019

Range Rover on Bay      (416) 928-9096
76 Davenport Road
Toronto, Ontario M5R 1H3

Budd's Imported Cars    (416) 845-1443
513 Speers Road
Oakvill, Ontario L6K 2G4

Automobiles Elegante    (514) 374-6550
4350 Boulevard Metropolitain Est.
Montreal, Quebec H1S 1A2

David Morris Fine Cars, LTD     (403) 484-9000
17210 103rd Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta T5S 1N1

Lone Star Inc.  (403) 253-1333
100 Glendeer Circle, SouthEast
Calgary, Alberta T2H 2S8

MCL Motor Cars  (604) 738-5577
1730 Burrard Street
Vancouver, British Columbia V6J 3G7

Chapman Motors Limited  (902) 453-2110
3363 Kempt Road
Halifax, Nova Scotia B3K 4X5



Message No 49


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 12:33:51 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 17:21:01 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: newly cut holes


mike-

as you know, i too have a "blindsides hardtop" on nigel.....here in the
states (in ny state at least) the rules for commercial vs. passenger
vehicles are not quite as absurd as in the motherland (actually, they are-
but for some reason they do not apply-supposedly, ANY vehicle with a 
"removable top" is supposed to be registered as commercial, whereas only
permanant tops and soft tops are permitted to be registered as passenger
vehicles.....somehow the big-little brother (governor mario cuomo) has
failed to realize that a rover top can be removed so easily, and he allows
rovers to fall into the same classification as jeeps-ie passenger vehicles.
i am not so sure how they'd treat a 109 pickup, though...just tell the
lady at DMV "it is just like a jeep" and they'll never know..)-anyway, i
read with angst about your cutting windows into your blindsides (and 
sympathized with your commercial vs. passenger woes) and am now releived
to find that it took three full months at the bottle to work up the balls
to do it.  i am also sure that the extra visibility paysoff (having near
ly trashed several new lexus' at the hands of impatient commuters who cannot
wait for nigel to get back into the right lane where he belongs).

hope (and trust) it looks stock, anyway,

rdushin



Message No 50


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 21 11:10:18 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: new tank
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 20 Jun 1993 20:48:43 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes:

> as for the lack of baffles-this is truely UNFORTUNATE, but then again i 
> suppose a rover is rarely subjected to side-to-side forces over a fraction
> of a G.

        Friday, I would have agreed with you.  Today, after this weekend's
        jaunt into the unfrozen forest I do.  I went over enough rocks,
        roots, and general non-flat terrain to get a good portion of the
        contents in the petrol tank airborn within it.  The vertical and
        horizontal lurches can be quite something.

        It will probably take a day or so to recover enough to write up the
        weekend fun.  Oh did we get stuck...  The Saab pull was also
        amusing, though some sleeping participants were unimpressed when we
        started that one at 1:30am.

        Rgds

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 51


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 21 11:42:45 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: god forbid
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 20 Jun 1993 20:55:59 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes:

> 1) being left WITHOUT a toolbox.........NO rover should be without
> a toolbox, and although you could mount one elsewhere, under the sear
> (seat, that is) is a convenient place for it (even though it is so
> damned small).

        One could build quite a list.  If you are going off-road a tuggum
        strap, chain, hooks etc. are also major requirements.  At least
        where we go... :-)  I always keep a towing cable in all of my
        vehicles, but then again I carry most of a spare car with me
        anyway...  :-)

> 2) customizing your rover's body parts and thereby rendering it "box-
> stock-NOT".

        I would, and actually am, going to customise the front bumper on my
        109.  Off shall come the stock one, and on shall go one made of 6"
        channel steel.  Three Rovers got a bit near to trees this week.  At
        even very slow speeds the ends of the front bumper bent like a
        pretzel and were a pain, especially when that section of bumper is
        driven into the tire.   The replacement will be a bolt on job, as
        welding a new bumper on seems to be rather final...

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 52


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 03:29:41 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Lifeboat
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 9:22:06 BST

.......Carry most of a spare car......
Heh heh,picture Dixon in a 109" with a Mini neatly stowed on davits
on the stern...:-):-)
Mike



Message No 53


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 05:29:11 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: heavy bumpers
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 11:01:26 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca:

> I .... going to customise the front bumper on my 109.  Off shall come the sto
> one, and on shall go one made of 6" channel steel.....very slow speeds the en
> of the front bumper bent like apretzel and were a pain, especially when that
> section of bumper is driven into the tire.

Yes, I know what you mean.  I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too.  Do
bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light
guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame
when you hit something.  Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware.

Cheers,
Steve.



Message No 54


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 11:18:52 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 16:03:52 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: taxes


mike-

1) on the contrary, "blindsides" hardtops seem to be the odd bird-i have
only seen 1 (nigel).  safari tops (with skylights, heat deflector, and 
sliding windows) seem to be slightly less common than regular hardtops
(sans skylights and heat deflector, but with sliding side windows).  softops
also appear to be quite rare these days (in these parts)....but in my opinion
no hardtop is as much fun to drive about in than a softop with the sides and
rear rolled up in the summer months.

2) as for taxes and registration fees.....they vary from state to state, but
in ny they are dependent upon several factors-type of registration, vehicle 
weight, and cost.  it is difficult to decipher just what the charges are
from looking at my registration (one just pays the bill and gets on with it)
as there is an "annual charge" figure as well as an "amount paid" figure
(the latter, of course, being the bigger of the two).  furthermore, in this
state over the past several years there have been many changes to the system
as they struggle to raise more funds (that the state claims is needed for
highway improvement-but we all THOUGHT that was what all that extra gas tax
was going for........).  as far as i can tell this is the breakdown:

flat rate for registration: as of 5/92 it was $17.25 (for one of my vehicles
registered passenger, not a rover but the same weight, roughly), but as of
7/92 it was $20.75 (nigel, registered as a passenger rig)-go figure(?).  these
are annual figures, incidentally, and you pay double this for a two year 
registration (required in this state-supposedly cuts down on paper work for
them, but they upped the rate at the same time as they made this change-the
less for more phenonmenon).  for commercial plates, the figure as of 7/90
(which i believe corresponded to the 5/92 figure above-ie it probably went
up by 7/92) was $30.00.

on top of this you pay extra for a vehicle being registered for the first time
.  this depends upon the price paid for the vehicle, or its "blue book" value,
whichever is less (nice guys!).  there is no blue book value for a 1960 land
rover (and probably not for any others either) so they just had to take my
word for it (and you can probably guess what i told them.....).

i think you might also pay extra "fees" that are not disclosed on my reg.  they
might be based upon weight (?), or they might be a flat fee.  these fees are
the states way of raising extra money without having to say that the cost of
registering your vehicle went up.....

i do suppose i should quit complaining, because you do seem to have it much
worse than we do wrt the TAXMAN.

condolances,
rdushin



Message No 55


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 04:01:57 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Lifeboat
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:47:27 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

> .......Carry most of a spare car......
> Heh heh,picture Dixon in a 109" with a Mini neatly stowed on davits
> on the stern...:-):-)

        Give me half a chance and a Moke...  :-)

        Rgds,


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 56


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 04:12:50 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: heavy bumpers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:28:27 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:

> Yes, I know what you mean.  I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too.  
> bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light
> guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame
> when you hit something.  Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware.

        I am aware of the problems inherent with changing to a *solid*
        front bumper, thus the necessary design requirement that any
        replacement be bolt on for a quick change over depending on the
        application.  In the bush, a solid front bumper is a requirement
        for the jarring into trees and other sundry things that I should
        avoid.  When in the bush, there is also the need for some sort of
        solid mounting piece for the pto winch, hooks for chain and tow
        straps for vehicle extracation.

        I see no need to needlessly destroy a fine LR bumper in our regular
        foreys into the unfrozen tundra when a temperary replacement would
        suit the situation to a far more useful extent.

        Maybe it is being a bit spoiled by having access to land that we
        can really play and push our vehicles to the limit.  "Tread
        Lightly" on this land is certainly not the operational view
        considering the canals we have churned out in sections.  We have
        managed to bury our Rovers past the frames in attempts to ford
        beaver dams, bog, rock faces etc.  (other ventures we do take great
        attention to leaving a little a trace as possible on our passage,
        we are not lunatic environmental terrorists...). We have vehicles
        that were designed to handle horrible conditions, and some of us
        enjoy seeing what these limits may be without damaging our
        vehicles.

        As for this eveings efforts, the dead engine out of the 109 has
        been stripped to the bare block in preparation of a complete
        rebuilt.  I note that the "Made in China" engine stand will not
        mount a Land Rover block, so a game of blocks of wood and frequent
        turning was required to strip the block.  Our only stupidity was to
        try and drive the pistons out from the bottom.  We nicked the two
        centre pistons quite well when they hit the flange before we got
        our act together.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 57


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 09:26:50 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: bumpers
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:16:49 BST

Dixon,
I'm afraid I dont follow your reasoning here.If you clout something,
be it in bush or backstreet,and clout it hard enough,the bumper will
bend.if the bumper is so strong it *wont* bend,something else will.
Like the front chassis leg.Similarly with winch mounting points.Well,
not exactly,but the same principal.How about straightening the bent
bumper and using *that* off-road (it already bolts on) and getting
another for best?At least that way everything stays within the design
parameters.Trouble with every part being of equal strength is you get
the Parson's dog-cart syndrome.Carriagemaker biult the Parson a dog 
cart to this principle,it went for years,and finally all parts failed
together,and it collapsed in a heap of dust!History doesnt record who
M was the most surprised,the Parson or the horse.
Cheers
Mike


was the most surprised,the Parson or the horse.



Message No 58


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 09:58:01 1993
Return-Path: <smb002@central1.lancaster.ac.uk>
Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:41:19 +0100
From: Ross <smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk>
Subject: bumpers
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:41:35 +0100 (BST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 84

How much are new bumpers out there anyway - they're only about 20 pounds over here!



Message No 59


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 10:46:59 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: exhausting
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:35:41 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Does anyone else with a swb softtop have problems with the exhaust gases being
sucked back in thro' the open rear canvas door?  When I travel on the open
road I can smell exhaust fumes if I have the rear flap/door open; no fumes if I
don't.  Off-road there's no problem either.  If I also put the sides up the
problem disappears too.

So it seems to me that there is some swirling effect, similar to that found on
estate cars where exhaust fumes/road grime etc is thrown back into the back of
the vehicle.  BTW the exhaust is a shortened RR one exiting in a 2 inch pipe
behind the nearside (this is UK) wheel.

Anyone experienced the same, or better still have a solution?

Cheers,
Steve.  V8 Lightweight



Message No 60


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 10:53:20 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Bits and Panels
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:44:06 BST

Ross,
Which reminds me,talking of bumpers,did you get your replacement
panels from Craddocks? Any good?
Mike



Message No 61


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 11:16:08 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Exhausting
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 17:05:27 BST

Steve,
I get this effect on my hardtop,the back surface *always* has a layer
of diesel on it when I clean it(Oh god,should I have admitted that I
clean it?)My tailpipe comes out behind the offside rear wheel.I reckon
the only way I could get rid of it would be to somehow get the tailpipe
to exhaust at the back,mebbe pointing down towards the road.Or maybe just
an elbow on the existing pipe to deflect the gases down would do.I think
some Halfords type shops used to sell chrome tailpipe "trims" that did
this.If the gases hit the road,I reckon that the "wash" from the mudflaps
would make them clear the vehicle.Well its a thought.
Cheers
Mike



Message No 62


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 11:19:41 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:10:18 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: exhausting


Steve-

Although it has been quite sometime since I've been in a softop (the farm
rig was long ago converted to a hardtop, unfortunately) I do recall this
rear-entry exhaust phenomenon quite well.  It may be unavoidable but-

	-does your exhaust exit from the side or the rear?
	-if it exits from the side does the pipe extend to the outside of
the wheelwell?
	-does this thing pass emmissions inspection?

Only got two solutions for ya, neither is to be taken seriously-

	1) Make yourself an elaborate set of fins and spoilers to alter
	the aerodynamics (ie lack of) on your rover.
	2) Slow down.

oh well,
ya might have to live with this one.
rdushin



Message No 63


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 13:58:18 1993
Return-Path: <burns@cisco.com>
From: Russell Burns <burns@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: heavy bumpers
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 11:49:00 MDT
In-Reply-To: <5HVk6B1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Jun 22, 93 11:28 pm

Yea, but those range rover bumpers suck when yoneed to use a jack.
I am thinking aboutbuilding a HD rear bumper form my RR so I can us 
my sheepherders jack, and carry some extra fuel.
The one good point with the light bumpers is that they beat back into
shape fairly easily.

Russ Burns
deranged rover

> 
> Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:
> 
> > Yes, I know what you mean.  I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too.  
> > bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light
> > guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame
> > when you hit something.  Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware.
> 
>         I am aware of the problems inherent with changing to a *solid*
>         front bumper, thus the necessary design requirement that any
>         replacement be bolt on for a quick change over depending on the
>         application.  In the bush, a solid front bumper is a requirement
>         for the jarring into trees and other sundry things that I should
>         avoid.  When in the bush, there is also the need for some sort of
>         solid mounting piece for the pto winch, hooks for chain and tow
>         straps for vehicle extracation.
> 
>         I see no need to needlessly destroy a fine LR bumper in our regular
>         foreys into the unfrozen tundra when a temperary replacement would
>         suit the situation to a far more useful extent.
> 
>         Maybe it is being a bit spoiled by having access to land that we
>         can really play and push our vehicles to the limit.  "Tread
>         Lightly" on this land is certainly not the operational view
>         considering the canals we have churned out in sections.  We have
>         managed to bury our Rovers past the frames in attempts to ford
>         beaver dams, bog, rock faces etc.  (other ventures we do take great
>         attention to leaving a little a trace as possible on our passage,
>         we are not lunatic environmental terrorists...). We have vehicles
>         that were designed to handle horrible conditions, and some of us
>         enjoy seeing what these limits may be without damaging our
>         vehicles.
> 
>         As for this eveings efforts, the dead engine out of the 109 has
>         been stripped to the bare block in preparation of a complete
>         rebuilt.  I note that the "Made in China" engine stand will not
>         mount a Land Rover block, so a game of blocks of wood and frequent
>         turning was required to strip the block.  Our only stupidity was to
>         try and drive the pistons out from the bottom.  We nicked the two
>         centre pistons quite well when they hit the flange before we got
>         our act together.
> 
>         Rgds,
> 
>         Dixon
> 
> 
> --
> dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
> FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada
> 



Message No 64


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 01:47:02 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: bumpers
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 23 Jun 1993 19:09:51 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

> I'm afraid I dont follow your reasoning here.If you clout something,
> be it in bush or backstreet,and clout it hard enough,the bumper will
> bend.if the bumper is so strong it *wont* bend,something else will.

        Very true, but in the bush, when you do hit something it will be at
        under 5mph usually.  Where there are obstacles, one tends to go
        fairly slowly.  The standard LR bumper will not hold very well at
        these speeds (well, maybe a bit faster...) considering the mass
        behind.  The chap who will make it for me, is well aware of this
        problem and will make it in a fashion so it will bend over a
        certain speed.

        Part of the method behind my madness is that my front bumper thus
        far is in excellent shape.  I would like to keep it this way, thus
        the idea of a heavier replacement for the woods.

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 65


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 01:47:16 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Technical advice sought...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 23 Jun 1993 20:35:58 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


        Looking through my library of books, I seem to be missing the
        popular title "Tuning your Land Rover".  This book, like that other
        popular title "Tuning your Mini" details how to turn your stodgy
        Land Rover into a lean, mean racing machine (at least in the
        muskeg... :-)).  As this title is unobtainable, probably because it
        doesn't exist, yet, I must fall upon my fingertips and seek the
        advice of the list on how to proceed with my diabolical plans.

        I wish to rebuild the dead 2.25l engine into something that truly
        purrs. To this end, I shall have the crank balanced, should
        probably purchase four new pistons and have them balanced too.
        What other bits and pieces should really be replaced, or modified/
        addressed to end up with an engine that will not only function in
        an excellent fashion, but shall last a long while.  I figure that
        if I am going to go to the effort to rebuild an engine, that I
        should do it right.

        Comments?

        Rgds,

        Dixon

--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 66


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 06:35:13 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Engine Rebuild
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 12:27:54 BST

Dixon,
The first comment that occurred to me when I read about your project
was one that TeriAnn made some time ago,viz,that the 2.25 engine is
seriously overbuilt anyway.The second is that it all depends on the
depth of your pocket,the length of time you are prepared to spend,and
what you want out of it.Long life (which you will probably get anyway)
increased power etc.
All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running,
and smooth,no matter what age.Balancing the crank (and I suppose the
pistons)can do no harm,but is it worth the extra cost?I would suggest
that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be a worthwhile
thing to do,resulting in lack of valve seat regression,and hence,longer
life.Weber or similar carb?New timing chain and tensioner.Certainly a
complete bottom end rebuild,crank regrind,big end and main shells,thrusts,
oil seals etc,but you were going to do that anyway.It *is* nice spending
someone elses money,even in imagination:-)
One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs,
they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went
particularly after you spent all that money.
Just a thought
Cheers
Mike



Message No 67


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 07:19:51 1993
Return-Path: <smb002@central1.lancaster.ac.uk>
Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:12:51 +0100
From: Ross <smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk>
Subject: Lean Mean What?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:13:10 +0100 (BST)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1677


Dixon,

What do you want from your 2.25? Do you want to keep it original in every 
respect? If so, you will burden yourself with poor performance and poor 
economy for the rest of its working life, as a direct result of its ancient 
and rather poor design. The only thing it has going for it, is that its 
solid and extremely tolerant of wear and bad working conditions.

Balancing the crankshaft may improve matters, but where I come from,
this operation requires copious quantities of cash and will never achieve
the smoothness of a 5 bearing unit. However, if you want to keep the thing
'stock' then this is an option you will ahave to consider.

Changing the original carb for a Weber. A popular conversion which saps
performance to improve mpg (especially at the top end). So if you're
looking for a 'lean mean racing machine' (as specified) then forget the
Weber carb.

No, to achieve truely great performance from a two and a quarter, there
is really only one thing that you can possibly do and that is to
modify it. Buy a performance camshaft and a turbocharger and the old
lump will be an even match for a normally aspirated V8.

A new camshaft will cost you around a hundred pounds, but I'm not sure
about the turbo. I have a price at home if you are really interested
or I can give you the address of a couple of companies that will supply.

As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that
its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real
problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry
that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful
supply.

So, are you ready for a turbo? :)



Message No 68


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 07:44:29 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Muscle Rover
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 13:36:15 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Ross asks Dixon:

> So, are you ready for a turbo? :)

Surely you mean twin turbos, of course the second is carried as a spare in
Dixon's usual manner.......  Maybe the new heavy bumper should be augmented
with side skirts just to keep this baby on the ground ;-)

Cheers,
Steve.  V8=waytogo!



Message No 69


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:26:48 1993
Return-Path: <moore@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:11:14 GMT
From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV)
To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov
Subject: RE: Engine Rebuild

> Subj:	Engine Rebuild
> 
> Dixon,
>
> All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running,
> and smooth,no matter what age.Balancing the crank (and I suppose the
> pistons)can do no harm,but is it worth the extra cost?I would suggest
> that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be a worthwhile

    etc....

    Another possibility is shaving as much as 1/8" off of the head itself.
    Adjustments will then have to be made for push rods and valve
    clearances, but it's cheap and easy to do (relativly).

> One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs,
> they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went
> particularly after you spent all that money.
> Just a thought
> Cheers
> Mike


    					Mark
    					--0-
    					moore@fsl.noaa.gov
    					NOAA - Boulder, CO USA



Message No 70


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:28:26 1993
Return-Path: <moore@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:15:41 GMT
From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV)
To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov
Cc: TURBO@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov
Subject: Turbo

> Subj:	Lean Mean What?
    > 
> 
> Dixon,
> 
> 
> As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that
> its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real
> problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry
> that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful
> supply.
> 
> So, are you ready for a turbo? :)

    This also increases the likelihodd of a snapping axels.


    					Mark
    					--0-
    					moore@fsl.noaa.gov
    					NOAA - Boulder, CO USA



Message No 71


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:50:13 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:35:19 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: fresh air


Steve-

Your fresh air idea reminded me of an x-housemates solution to a similar
problem.  he was a carpenter-extremely handy with  drills and saws, etc-
who was the proud owner of a rotting vw bug.  the rocker panels were in
particularly bad shape, and since he was dealing with unibody construction
he decided he'd best slow the corrosive process.  he drilled small holes
at six inch intervals along the rocker panels, threaded gease nipples into 
each one, and packed those suckers  full of grease.  winter came around,
he turned on the heat, and got heavliy dosed with airborne petroleum
distillates (the rocker panels are the conduits for heat in a vw bug!).
his solution: he mounted an old horn-like instrument (i think it may have
been a broken trombone) to the front wheel well and ran a large diameter
hose into the triangle window such that it blew copious quantities of
fresh air into his face.  he claims to have had the car for several 
years thereafter.

musta been quite the sight,
rdushin/nigel



Message No 72


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 16:38:43 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... 
In-Reply-To: dixon's message of Wed, 23 Jun 93 17:35:58 -0800.
             <N7Hm6B1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> 
Date: 	Thu, 24 Jun 1993 14:25:38 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

If you're going to do this right, you should do the following to the crank:

crack test/magnaflux, scrap if there's a crack
hot tank, remove oil plugs, brush clean passages
shot peen
grind and micro polish
balance (with flywheel, rods, pistons, optionally clutch)
chamfer oil holes to improve lubrication

There's a place that I've used that does truly amazing rocker arm work
- they restore assemblies for all sorts of cars. I've had one done for
my Triumph, where the shaft was quite worn - they repaird to better
than new for less than the parts would have cost. Call

Name:        Rocker Arm Specialists
Address:     19841 Hirsch Street
             Anderson, CA 96007
Phone:       (916) 378-1075

Match the ports on the manifold and head; if you want to get fancy,
read one of David Vizard's books on head modification and try your
hand. Check your oil pump and replace if necessary.



Message No 73


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 16:53:00 1993
Return-Path: <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:39:48 EDT
From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Intro to Sworking


I did the first major work on my new old LR two weekends ago.  I had
planned on replacing four shocks, two front springs, a few gaskets and
seals, and maybe do some electrical work.  I gave myself a day for 
that.  Ha!  Ended up doing half the work in twice the time.  I expected
the springs (or spring as it turned out) to be real buggers but it
turned out to be quite a nightmare.  It was listing just a bit to the
left so I started with that spring.  No surprises initially.  Most
of the hub came apart as expected.  Bearings seemed to be oiled more
than greased and the U-bolts had to be hacksawed off.  *Then* I got
to the shackle bolts.  Bloody hell they were.  Front wasn't too bad
but I spent a solid half hour applying various forces to the rear
bolt before it was off.  Sprayed it with oil, hit it with a hammer,
crank on it with the socket.  Finally it came out.  If I had had a
blow torch, I would have heat cycled it, but I didn't.  Arms were sore
for a week afterwards.  Time to put the new one in.  Steel sleeve 
inside the bushing is a bit too wide to fit in the rear hanger.
Fortunately, it sticks out just the right amount that it can be
hacksawed down to fit (note for anyone who tries this at home).  Bolts
that I bought from RN don't have enough thread to be tightened down
on the hanger but they have nyloc nuts which will keep it together
until I can get some washers on it (front only, rear is OK).

Shocks were trivial (what a relief) but had my first disappointment
from RN:  I ordered a 1 1/16" lug wrench and they sent me one of the
smaller ones.  They straightened it out, of course.

Repacked the front bearings and did a proper job of it.  Hope it will
keep some of the oil out.  Question:  I have the 'Select-O' freewheeling
hubs from someplace in the US.  Inside is a collar/cam that lifts
a spline off of the axle.  On one of mine, the collar is cracked.
It still works but it bugs me.  Does anyone know where to get one of
these?  RN has entire hubs but I don't really need that.

Left front swivel pin housing does leak at the ball seal so I'll
probably replace that one later on.  Leak is slow enough that I just 
have to watch it.  Right one seems fine if visibly pitted.

Overall, the new spring and front shocks seems to have helped.  Doesn't
dive quite as much and turning behavior is better.  Lists to the right
now so I'll do the right spring (!$#%^@#$^) in a week or two.

Also had my first lesson in F'ing Previous Owners (FPO, or FPPO, or ...).
While checking the oil and grease in every petroleum-bearing structure,
I found that someone along the line decide to sound or water proof the
passenger area by using silicone sealant on the floor plates.  Wouldn't
have been a bad idea if they had let it dry before putting the plates
back on but they put them on wet.  Result:  I haven't been able to
check the transmission oil level yet.  !#^!@#^!@#^

Despite the amount of sweat, swearing, and work put in, I have to say
I've never enjoyed working on a vehicle as much as I do the LR.  Guess
it'll give me plenty to do in the future, yes?

Question for Jory and any NE Roverists:  do you know of any junkyards
in the area that have or might have LR's in their lot?  Thought I'd go
scavenge....

Monty



Message No 74


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 05:37:15 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: 2.25 Power
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:08:39 BST

I'm afraid I cant agree with Ross's evaluation of the 2.25 petrol
in its standard form.He critcises it for having poor performance
poor economy,and poor design.
I would suggest that its performance is perfectly adequate when you
consider the time for which it was built.When I was in my middle
twenties,cars cruising at fifty were not often passed on the road.
When you consider the weight and aerodynamics of the Land Rover,
there isnt much wrong with an engine that could keep up with the
traffic flow of its era,whilst propelling a vehicle of 1.5 tons
and the aerodynamics of the average concrete outhouse.
As for economy,*any* 4X4 is at a disadvantage here,because of its
weight,and the mass of rotating machinery incorporated in it.But
if you *really* want an example of poor economy,try a Bedford
Rascal(Suzuki derived)van.My dept here ran one for two years,and
round campus,lightly laden,it returned a fuel consumption of under
20mpg.This with an engine of under 1litre capacity.
As for poor design,well,its longevity contradicts that one.I
consider it a good match with the work pattern expected of it,even
now,and having rebuilt my diesel,(from which it was derived,largely)
it is one of the best engineered engines I have come across,and this
includes Jaguars 2.4 litre XK unit.In fact,I'll go further,and suggest
that Land Rover have never put a bad engine into their products,and I
include the 2.25 diesel,(not fast,but adequate in an 88",the 1092
well,perhaps not),and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was
capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road.
In fact,I have lately wondered whether this engine in an 88" wouldnt
almost be a match for Steves V8 equipped airportable.(That is,if he
didnt cheat and strip it down as for a helo lift:-)).
There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their
vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit
their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the
minute standards of fuel economy.Well and good.By all means try,and
the best of luck,I find the efforts involved very interesting and
informative.But *please* remember that the stock engines fitted to the
vehicles were good *in their day* and it is,I think,unfair to critcise
them *by current standards*.After all,if we cant improve things in the
45 years that Land Rovers have been around,we all may as well go back to
possibly the most versatile off-road vehcle ever.The horse.(And I've got
one of those,as well:-))
Right,this bit ought to have gone in at the beginning.When I saw Ross's
comments it set me thinking.He is by no means alone in his outlook,so I
thought it might be interesting to introduce a "discussion document",so
to speak,to see what ohter people's views are.This is emphatically NOT
a flame.I may have even got the wrong end of the stick.So what *are*
other people views?
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 75


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 09:25:03 1993
Return-Path: <bellas@gamma.tti.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 07:16:07 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  2.25 Power


>                 and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was
>capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road.

My problem with the 2.6 litre was longevity, it ran very hot and had
a nasty habit of eating valves at regular intervals, most annoying. If
anyone has some mods that would solve this I would probably consider
rebuilding the 2.6 rather than looking for a engine swap (finances still
have my 109 in mothballs).

			-Pete-



Message No 76


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 10:39:31 1993
Return-Path: <sim1@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 11:32:02 -0500
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS)
Subject: Re:  6 cylinder Power Plant

>>                 and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was
>>capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road.
>
>My problem with the 2.6 litre was longevity, it ran very hot and had
>a nasty habit of eating valves at regular intervals, most annoying. If
>anyone has some mods that would solve this I would probably consider
>rebuilding the 2.6 rather than looking for a engine swap (finances still
>have my 109 in mothballs).
>
I wasn't aware of a 2.6 6 cyl. engine, but have seen a 3 liter 6 in 109"
wagons.  I was told years ago that the 3 liter was essentially made from
the same castings as my 2 liter with an additional 2 cylinders.  It
certainly looked the same, only longer.  It even used the same AC FF-24
(nasty) oil filter element.  The only time it ever ran hot, though, was
when the upper radiator hose ruptured.  I don't know what problems owners
of the 3 liter 6 experienced, but I finally learned that I had to keep my
valve (exhaust especially) clearances about .002 wider than the manual
called for.  The last time that I replaced them (when they had been set at
the book clearance value), all 4 exhaust valves were burnt.  Noone could
believe it was still running!  Likewise, finances still have my 107 in
mothballs (in pieces).

Steve Margolis                  E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu
Information Resources
Cornell University              Phone:  (607) 255-1477
Ithaca is Gorges, NY            Fax:    (607) 254-5222
14853-2601



Message No 77


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 01:46:16 1993
Return-Path: <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Posted-Date:  Sun, 27 Jun 1993 01:30:20 -1812
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 01:30:20 -1812
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Engine Rebuilding

I followed the thread about the ultimate Rover engine with some interest
and I guess I will pass on what little I have been told -

In a conversation with Lanny at Rovers North I asked him what would be the
ultimate rebuild -
He said (my recollection at least)
1. bore engine out to accept largest pistons (040)
2. open up intake and exhaust ports to size of gasket
3. take a bit off the head to raise the compression 

(I was mostly interested in raising power for higher altitude running. Here
in Austin the hills are problem enough - in Santa Fe you might as well pull
into the breakdown lane)

We did talk a little about carbs. He likes the original Rover carbs, esp.
the Solex. We also talked about the double barrel Weber which he thinks is
pretty good, but the new intake manifold lacks any preheating and thus when
the engine is cold there is going to be a lot of stumbling.

Other things - (not from Lanny)
- replace the air filter with a K&N
- you could monkey with the ignition system - there is a system I have
heard of that will replace you contact points and condenser with some solid
state contraption. You also could chuck the coil. It is just a mattter of
the bucks- and I'm not at all sure if there would be any pay back (except
you wouldn't have to set the gap on the points any longer). 

But then again maybe it is just best to leave it alone and if you really
need power to look at a different engine. I would be curious to hear what
the options might be. The Land Rover Owner International mag. is full of
engine conversion ads, but it doesn't seem that many people think these are
any good. And of course there is always the problem of attaching too much
engine to a drivetrain that is not built to take the extra power. In
particular did somebody on the list mention that a Rover V8 from a 1970
sedan would fit into a LR??? I also saw some articles in an old Land Rover
Club newsletter that touted using Chevy? 4 or 6 cylinder engines.

Anyway - that is my thoughts/questions on the subject.

Greg
70 88 IIa



Message No 78


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 21:18:03 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: 2.25 Power ?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 11:26:56 CST


Lots of Mike Rooths stuff deleted, some where he writes.

"There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their
vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit
their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the
minute standards of fuel economy."

A good friend of mine runs a construction business. His own personal 4x4 is
an early 70's SIII 2.25p 109 h/top.  His work 4x4 is a late 80's Toyota
land-cruiser trayback fitted with the 2H 6cyl diesel.  He regulary has to
work 4-500 km  (250+miles) away.  On one occasion the cruiser was off for
repairs and he was forced to use the landy to tow his tri-axle trailer
containing backhoe, and etc.  He found that once it was wound up the landy
could maintain almost the same speeds as the tojo (60-65 mph) and returned
better fuel economy than the Diesel.  When lightly or moderately loaded the
cruiser is *much*  more economical (up to twice as good) than the landy but
when the loads get extreme the old "inefficient" 2.25p doesnt suffer as much
as the big tojo diesel.

My gas guzzling V8 is similarly inclined to be little affected by obscene
loads but it would be nicer to get better unloaded economy.  (obscene speed
is a different matter :-)    

-- 

          
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 SIII 109 V8 "county" wagon (350K km and just about stuffed)   



Message No 79


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 22:18:52 1993
Return-Path: <daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au>
From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb)
Subject: 2.25 Power ?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group)
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 11:26:56 CST


Lots of Mike Rooths stuff deleted, some where he writes.

"There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their
vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit
their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the
minute standards of fuel economy."

A good friend of mine runs a construction business. His own personal 4x4 is
an early 70's SIII 2.25p 109 h/top.  His work 4x4 is a late 80's Toyota
land-cruiser trayback fitted with the 2H 6cyl diesel.  He regulary has to
work 4-500 km  (250+miles) away.  On one occasion the cruiser was off for
repairs and he was forced to use the landy to tow his tri-axle trailer
containing backhoe, and etc.  He found that once it was wound up the landy
could maintain almost the same speeds as the tojo (60-65 mph) and returned
better fuel economy than the Diesel.  When lightly or moderately loaded the
cruiser is *much*  more economical (up to twice as good) than the landy but
when the loads get extreme the old "inefficient" 2.25p doesnt suffer as much
as the big tojo diesel.

My gas guzzling V8 is similarly inclined to be little affected by obscene
loads but it would be nicer to get better unloaded economy.  (obscene speed
is a different matter :-)    

-- 

          
  Daryl Webb  (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au)
'82 SIII 109 V8 "county" wagon (350K km and just about stuffed)   



Message No 80


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 02:53:07 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: 2.25 Power
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:33:52 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

> Right,this bit ought to have gone in at the beginning.When I saw Ross's
> comments it set me thinking.He is by no means alone in his outlook,so I
> thought it might be interesting to introduce a "discussion document",so
> to speak,to see what ohter people's views are.This is emphatically NOT
> a flame.I may have even got the wrong end of the stick.So what *are*
> other people views?

Mine can probably be summed up this way.  I have a 1976 Austin Mini.  It is
an all round solid vehicle and performs quite well for what it was designed
for.  *I* think that it is too slow and lacks performance, thus the desire
for a Cooper S arises.  Do I go out and spend a ton of cash building up the
998 lump, or acquire a 1275 for the Mini?  Nope.  I am going to acquire a
late '60s Austin Cooper S to rebuild.

The Rover has the 2.25l lump.  It is well know over here, solid and
reliable.  To drop the popular Rover 3.5l v8 would cause problems and a
much greater expenditure of cash.  I think that you should work with what
you have and make it perform as well as can be expected, trying to creating
something that will have a long life while living up to its design
specifications, if not slightly exceeding them without putting undo strain
on the engine.

Rgds,

Dixon

PS  An Arden 8 port head, dual Webers, and a five speed gearbox on the
Cooper would be cool though...  :-)  (starting at about 2,500 pounds
for the conversion... <ouch>)


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 81


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 02:53:10 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Muscle Rover
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:22:13 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:

> Surely you mean twin turbos, of course the second is carried as a spare in
> Dixon's usual manner.......  Maybe the new heavy bumper should be augmented
> with side skirts just to keep this baby on the ground ;-)

I have few problems keeping it *in* the ground.  Higher up would be nicer.
Hmmm, Rover have a hovercraft option?  :)

Rgds,

Dixon

PS.  What would really be neat would be a Cuthbertson conversion kit...
     <grin>


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 82


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:07:39 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Intro to Sworking
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:28:17 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out <brandenberg@gauss. writes:

> I did the first major work on my new old LR two weekends ago.

Quite an impressive list of work undertaken, and only in twice the time
allocated!  :-)  This weekend also saw the muffler replaced and the
discovery that the rear diff had been well cracked at one point and poorly
welded back together.  I guess in the next weekend of two, we shall be
replacing the rear axle with a spare that we have kicking about, now that a
restoration project on a 109 pick-up is being abandoned.

Rgds,

Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 83


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:20:28 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Engine Rebuilding
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 22:17:48 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes:

 >   And of course there is always the problem of attaching too much
 > engine to a drivetrain that is not built to take the extra power.

This is a major consideration as you will just twist the half shafts off
unless one wants to start working your way forward and rearward in
stiffening up the entire drive train.  I really do not want to go that
route with my engine.  I am seeking a solution whereby I will have a good
solid engine that will purr and not require rebuilding for another 70,000+
miles.

An additional consideration can be derived from this weekend's activities.
Three Land Rovers went into the forest (down the same trail as last week),
two came out.  The third Rover ('62 swb) was having electrical problems <1>
so I managed to tow his a good bit of the way back.  Coming to the mire on
the lower side of a beaver dam, I had plenty of torque, sufficient power,
very aggressive tires, but started to dig myself in trying to tow the swb
through.

We gave up when we noticed that the right front wheel had lost two nuts,
with studs, and we were starting to bend it off of the hub.  We will
retrieve it tomorrow, or in the next few days.

 > In particular did somebody on the list mention that a Rover V8 from a
 > 1970 sedan would fit into a LR???

This would be the Rover 3.5l (Buick) engine.  It does fit into a Land
Rover, and a couple of versions did use the engine.  This engine has been
used in quite a few BMC->Rover products.

Rgds,

Dixon

1.      When one changes a leaking radiator one should not be lazy and
        forget to put the shroud back on.  When you are in water slightly
        over the front floor pans/plates, that fan going around creates
        quite a spray of water, in fact pop the bonnet and it flys quite
        far <grin>.  Needless to say, this creates a few short problems
        with the Lucas wiring.  Lots of WD-40 et cetera is required to keep
        the beast running.

        At one point, when we were winching the swb forward towards dry
        ground, the water got to about 1/2" from the top of the front right
        wing when I found a really nice "pothole". The winch managed
        through however and we got to dry ground to further address the
        problem.  However, coming back out required my 109" and some chain
        to get back across the shallow pond.  I managed about 2/3'd of the
        way before the third Rover (Series III swb) was required to help me

Message No 84


        through with the '62 chained behind.  From there it was a backward
        tow for a half mile down the twisting trail for the '62 through
        streams, mud and around all but one tree (he bounced, though lost
        his rear drivers lights in the process.)


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 85


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:34:38 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Lean Mean What?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:12:35 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Ross <smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk> writes:

> What do you want from your 2.25? Do you want to keep it original in every 
> respect? If so, you will burden yourself with poor performance and poor 
> economy for the rest of its working life, as a direct result of its ancient 
> and rather poor design. The only thing it has going for it, is that its 
> solid and extremely tolerant of wear and bad working conditions.

Originality is one thing, practicality is another.  If I desire speed, the
only alternative is to get an overdrive unit for it.  Someday when cash is
a bit freer.  Long lasting and tolerant are pretty high on the agenda.

> Balancing the crankshaft may improve matters, but where I come from,
> this operation requires copious quantities of cash and will never achieve
> the smoothness of a 5 bearing unit. However, if you want to keep the thing
> 'stock' then this is an option you will ahave to consider.

I am lead to understand that this will cost the equiv. of fifty pounds to
have done for the crank, a bit more to add the pistons, con rods etc. to
the batch.

> So if you're looking for a 'lean mean racing machine' (as specified)
> then forget the Weber carb.

'lean mean racing machine' was kind of tongue in cheek, but indicating
something that will do well in the swamp...  :-)

> A new camshaft will cost you around a hundred pounds, but I'm not sure
> about the turbo. I have a price at home if you are really interested
> or I can give you the address of a couple of companies that will supply.

New camshaft is something that has been mentioned before.  Do they wear
that much over 70k+ miles?  As for the turbo, the concept is nice, but
probably a bit much.  52mph is exciting down the highway.  65 would be
preferable, but the 109 steers like a cow, and any faster begins to give me
too much worry while driving.

> So, are you ready for a turbo? :)

I'll wait for the results to come in from someone else doing the
conversion...  :-)

Rgds,

Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 86


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:47:34 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Engine Rebuild
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Sun, 27 Jun 1993 22:59:35 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> writes:

> The first comment that occurred to me when I read about your project
> was one that TeriAnn made some time ago,viz,that the 2.25 engine is
> seriously overbuilt anyway.The second is that it all depends on the
> depth of your pocket,the length of time you are prepared to spend,and
> what you want out of it.Long life (which you will probably get anyway)
> increased power etc.

The pockets are not that deep, though I could probably find the $$$ if the
job is going to be done right.  The crank is in excellent shape, though I
will be needing four new pistons to start.  The opion from those that have
seen the block is that it needs to be honed, but does not need to be bored
out at all.

> All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running,
> and smooth,no matter what age.

You should hear a few up here...  Though one swb made it in and out of the
quagmire last week on three cylinders.

> Balancing the crank (and I suppose the pistons) can do no harm,but is it
> worth the extra cost?

I understand that the cost is not that significant, but the results are
well worth the expenditure.  This approach has already been undertaken with
at least one Rover up here.  One that I have seen is the quietest and
smoothest running 2.25l that I have ever come across.  Some of the 2.25l's
that are not so smooth here pour out clouds of smoke and sound rather
tired.  Over in the UK you have the yearly MOT to keep things in line.
Over here (Quebec or Ontario) the vehicle is inspected once, and if that
was 25 years ago...

> I would suggest that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be
> a worthwhile thing to do,resulting in lack of valve seat regression, and
> hence, longer life.

Good idea, considering we can no longer get leaded fuel up here.  I do not
think that it is that expensive an undertaking either.

> Weber or similar carb?

Weber went on two weeks ago...  :-)  Much better performance over the
Solex.  A worthwhile 52 pound expenditure.

> New timing chain and tensioner.

The chain is not in that bad condition, actually pretty good so we are
debating this one right now...

> One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs,
> they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went
> particularly after you spent all that money.

Never thought of this...

Thanks,

Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 87


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 05:23:05 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: 2.25,2.6,Hovercraft?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:59:07 BST

There you go,Dixon,I have seen somewhere a photo of a Land Rover
hovercraft.Based on a S11 88",I think.Nothing new under the sun?:-)
I,ve had a little furkle round the available data this weekend,and
it seems that all the IOE Land Rover engines had a tendency to burn
out exhaust valves.That is the 1.5,2.0 and 2.6.In addition,the 2.6
six cyl *could* suffer fron a warped cyl head,with it being so long,
and alloy to boot.Which might account for overheating?The basic problem
for 2.6 owners would seem to be lack of spares.The catalogues I have
dont seem to acknowledge the engines exustance at all.Doesnt mean you
cant get them,though,could just mean that they arent sold in enough
volume to put in the cat.
Steves comments on the 3litre make me wonder whether the engine he
saw was ex the Rover 3litre coupe,a *very* luxurious beasty indeed,
about as far from the Land Rover as you can get.I know the 2.6 came
from the Rover 110 car,with altered tuning,so perhaps this was either
a special one off or an engine swap.I cant find any referance to a
3litre unit in any of my books,and the Land Rover workshop manual only
deals with 2.25 petrol and diesel,and 2.6 petrol.Interesting that,I
wonder if it was,indeed factory fitted.
There is an excellent photo of the six cylinder installation;LHD too;
in the current issue of LRO magazine.Bet it was never *that* clean
afterwards:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 88


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 06:17:58 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: 2.25,2.6,Hovercraft?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:59:07 BST

There you go,Dixon,I have seen somewhere a photo of a Land Rover
hovercraft.Based on a S11 88",I think.Nothing new under the sun?:-)
I,ve had a little furkle round the available data this weekend,and
it seems that all the IOE Land Rover engines had a tendency to burn
out exhaust valves.That is the 1.5,2.0 and 2.6.In addition,the 2.6
six cyl *could* suffer fron a warped cyl head,with it being so long,
and alloy to boot.Which might account for overheating?The basic problem
for 2.6 owners would seem to be lack of spares.The catalogues I have
dont seem to acknowledge the engines exustance at all.Doesnt mean you
cant get them,though,could just mean that they arent sold in enough
volume to put in the cat.
Steves comments on the 3litre make me wonder whether the engine he
saw was ex the Rover 3litre coupe,a *very* luxurious beasty indeed,
about as far from the Land Rover as you can get.I know the 2.6 came
from the Rover 110 car,with altered tuning,so perhaps this was either
a special one off or an engine swap.I cant find any referance to a
3litre unit in any of my books,and the Land Rover workshop manual only
deals with 2.25 petrol and diesel,and 2.6 petrol.Interesting that,I
wonder if it was,indeed factory fitted.
There is an excellent photo of the six cylinder installation;LHD too;
in the current issue of LRO magazine.Bet it was never *that* clean
afterwards:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 89


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 11:44:27 1993
Return-Path: <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Posted-Date:  Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:56:12 -1812
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:56:12 -1812
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Gearboxes and Transfer Cases

For those interested I talked to a guy recently who is an agent for
L.E.G.S. Ltd  of England who sells the following (he is in the states)

1. High Speed transfer case ~ $850-900
same low gear - higher high gear - supposed to about the same as overdrive
in 2/4 wheel high -same gearing in 4 wheel low

2. Rebuilt transmissions and transfer cases ~ $1,100
all syncromesh gears - he says they will work on all Rovers - can get IIa units.

3. Transmissions - old case, new innards - $1600 - have to pay shipment
from Eng.

warranty is for 6 months

so far it is the honor system - no core charges

Also - he is about to get a shipment from Eng. - he might be able to put
something special on if you are looking.

His name is Mike in Kansas City (816) 763-3797. 

I'll put this on the list - but as he is just about to put together a
shipment I thought I would let people know now in case they wanted to try
to work something out.

Greg



Message No 90


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 01:49:41 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Turbo
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:13:39 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

> > As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that
> > its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real
> > problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry
> > that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful
> > supply.
> > 
> > So, are you ready for a turbo? :)
> 
>     This also increases the likelihodd of a snapping axels.
 
the reason for balancing the eng is for smoothness while running and a 
moderate increase in power and economy without afecting reliability at a 
low initial cost.  i would suggest that the addition of a turbo may not 
affect the head or block but would lead to high stress on the head gasket 
causing it to fail (i am unaware of a competition gasket  for the 2.25 lr 
eng.) unless low comp. pistons are used.please bear in mind the low comp. 
in the 7.7to1 eng. is achieved by using a thicker head casting with 
larger comb. chambers.
 
The other thing to bear in mind is that if you are willing to bear the 
substantial cost of getting a turbo, you might as well start looking at 
Range Rovers, or getting a 3.5l v8 for the Land Rover.
 
Finally, snapping axles is not a certainty.  It all depends on how you 
use the power.
 

> 

--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 91


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 02:31:22 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: k&n air filter
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Tue, 29 Jun 1993 23:05:46 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

in regards to using an air filter of this type when wading water may be 
drawn into the carb.badness.with any luck the oil bath air filter may 
stop this unwanted ingress.

--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 92


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 02:47:40 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... 
From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Date: 	Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:38:26 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

"Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> writes:

> If you're going to do this right, you should do the following to the crank:
> 
> crack test/magnaflux, scrap if there's a crack
> hot tank, remove oil plugs, brush clean passages
> shot peen
> grind and micro polish
> balance (with flywheel, rods, pistons, optionally clutch)
> chamfer oil holes to improve lubrication
 
Doing a crack test on a land rover crank is pointless as it is a low 
(delete low) generally a lowstress engine although it would be quite 
appropriate for most cranks.please remember we are trying to keep costs 
low as labour intensive work such as this is prohibitive in 
Canada.matching ports is worthwhile as is giving the ports a slight 
polish to improve flow.


--
Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 93


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 03:58:29 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Turbo
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 9:46:22 BST

With regard to this discussion about turbochargers,I havent actually
ever *seen* any adverts for turbos siutable for the 2.25 petrol.Is
there one?The only two references I *have* seen are a photo of a
Janspeed Turbo installation on a 2.25 diesel,and an advert for
Allard turbos for the same engine.I must admit,that desirable though
it may be to get more power out of my 2.25 diesel(and it is:-))I
would not consider turbocharging a three bearing 2.25 because of the
extra stress it would put on the bottom end.We are talking 22:1
compression ratio here.Hence the ginourmous starter and lorry sized
battery to start it.It would have to be a *good* five bearing to take
such a mod,I think.Perhaps it is more than Dixon wants to spend,but
Turner engineering do a high performance head for the 2.25 petrol,and
a firm advertise a performance exhaust for the same engine in LRO.Or
one could *really* splash out and get one of Mr Turner's remanufactured
engines!Wish,wish,wish......
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 94


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 06:19:14 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: turbo or not turbo...
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:13:15 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Ted Rose says:

> The other thing to bear in mind is that if you are willing to bear the
> substantial cost of getting a turbo, you might as well start looking at
> Range Rovers, or getting a 3.5l v8 for the Land Rover.
> 
> Finally, snapping axles is not a certainty.  It all depends on how you
> use the power.

Quite right mate.  I have friends with V6's, V8's and 2.25's.  We've only ever
lost an axle in a 2.25.  Axles break when a wheel _suddenly_ spins after being
stuck, like when you rev a small engine.  The larger engines with masses of
torque trickle ahead on tickover....

(You wouldn't get this low speed torque on a turbo engine either, their power
kicks in higher in the rev band...  In fact I read that this is a common
criticism of the otherwise excellent Tdi).

Cheers,
Steve.

PS looks like I'll be coming across from England for a few day's business in
Ottowa, is this near any of you guys?  Anyone want anything bringing across
(no, a LWB back body isn't hand luggage!)

PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blue,
quite nice really!



Message No 95


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:00:41 1993
Return-Path: <ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com>
Date: 30 Jun 1993 06:40:48 -0700
From: Paul Anderson           <ACUS05@waccvm.corp.mot.com>
To: Land Rover Mailing List <lro@transfer.stratus.com>
Cc: <MKEENAN@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: G'day all


Thought some of you folks could help this guy.

Paul

___Forwarded Letter Follows_______________________________
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 09:34:04 +0800
From: Mark J Keenan <mkeenan@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>
To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu
Subject: G'day all

re: My bio
Don't know if it was received or not (certainly didn't come up in my mail -
is this supposed to happen??).  Anyways I'm the aussie with the Landrover
(1974, S3) which, incidentally , refused to start this morning and is
still sitting in the drive at home (#@!*).

re: JUMPING GEAR PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't don't don't TIE IT BACK!!!!!!
My Landy used to (still does, not fixed yet) jump out of 2nd & reverse (selector
problems I'm informed) - in those times when I needed to I held it in gear by
hand.........BAD MOVE!!!!!  Eventually the stick broke off at the base and my
wife and I were stuck in between two rows of parked cars, partly engaged in reverse and no room to push the truck!!!!

Believe it or not a replacement stick from JRA(Jag Rover Aust) was quoted at
$182 AUS....big bucks for a metal rod.  Anyways I welded a sleeve over it and
she is fine now.

You would be better off getting the problem looked at - I would hate
you to fall into this same hole!!

Later all,
MK

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is a Landy that don't start, a wife on her third day late for work and
$2.50 in your pocket to pay for a cab......
mark@uniwa.uwa.edu.au
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
___End of Forwarded Letter________________________________



Message No 96


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:09:54 1993
Return-Path: <jory@Athena.MIT.EDU>
From: jory@athena.mit.edu
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: turbos, etc
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 10:02:52 EDT


i once saw fred monsee or piermont offroad (formerly in ma)
installing a turbo in a ser iii... the turbo was for a right
hand drive and this entailed some fancy welding work on his
part... (he had previously installed air conditioning in this
same rover, apparently the customer owned a ski/resort hotel
thingy in colorado and wanted a well-equipped rover :)

i went to the downeast rover rally in maine this past weekend...
it was surreal...

there were a few neat things:
-the guy who had shoehorned volvo seats into his swb ser ii
-an article in a magazine about an irish place that makes
 a bolt up frame that makes older land rovers (88 & 109)
 into coil sprung, 4-disc brake jobbies (anyone heard of this?)
-rn had brought (among other things) a recent left had drive
 military 90, which was more utilitarian looking that
 the cellular phone equipped defenders i have chanced to see
-an 88 that was entirely stripped of paint ala delorean
 (unfortunalately (imho) he was going to paint it)
-jory



Message No 97


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:33:58 1993
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose)
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... 
In-Reply-To: tr's message of Tue, 29 Jun 93 19:38:26 -0800.
             <RuRX6B2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> 
Date: 	Wed, 30 Jun 1993 07:16:43 PDT
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

A crack test shouldn't cost more than $20. 



Message No 98


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 10:54:09 1993
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Coil Sprung Oldies
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:47:04 BST

Jory mentions a coil sprung 88" chassis.Dont know about *bolt*?
together,or Irish,but there are at least a couple of English firms
that will convert leaf to coil,and drum to disc.One firm advertises
the rolling chassis at 1995 pounds sterling inc VAT,the other
advertises the complete Land Rover,called by them the "Urban Rover"
based on a sreies 111,but gives no price.There are probably more.
I can post the phone nos if anyone is interested.
Regards
Mike Rooth



Message No 99


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 11:05:19 1993
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: drum to disc
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list)
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:57:35 BST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Mike says:

> that will convert leaf to coil,and drum to disc
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I havn't heard of this before  - do you mean leaf spring models can run front
disks?  I'd be real interested in this one.

Cheers,
Steve.



Message No 100


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 11:28:13 1993
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:16:36 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: leaf to coil!


Jory said he saw:

-an article in a magazine about an irish place that makes
 a bolt up frame that makes older land rovers (88 & 109)
 into coil sprung, 4-disc brake jobbies (anyone heard of this?)

so what the hell am I gonna do with my kidney belt if i go coil-sprung??
I ain't much of a weight lifter!
\
rdushin



Message No 101


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 12:15:18 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: turbo or not turbo...
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 30 Jun 1993 10:59:02 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada

Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> writes:

> PS looks like I'll be coming across from England for a few day's business in
> Ottowa, is this near any of you guys?  Anyone want anything bringing across
> (no, a LWB back body isn't hand luggage!)

        If you mean Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, that is were you will find
        quite a few Land Rover nuts, swamp, beer, and possibly a thoroughly
        enjoyable time.  When are you planning on coming over?

        As for "supplies", I seem to recall that you can bench press some
        6,000 pounds, thus your carry-on luggage may be a bit heavier than
        you would normally expect...  <grin>  What would be considered
        reasonable to see if it is possible to have you bring over?  IE:
        How many tons can we have sent to you...  :-)

> PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blu
> quite nice really!

        Cretin.  Land Rovers are *not* supposed to be washed.  It probably
        looks as ugly as sin, with all of that blue paint showing.  You do
        realise that you have now removed all of the protective layer for
        your beast.  Now sunlight is going to make your paint fade, real LR
        owners are going to snicker behind your back, little children are
        going to suffer future mental problems from the confusion arising
        from seeing your "clean" automobile.  The repercussions from this
        action are horrific to contemplate...

        :-)

        Rgds,

        Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada



Message No 102


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 12:23:50 1993
Return-Path: <hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Posted-Date:  Wed, 30 Jun 1993 12:02:19 -1812
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 12:02:19 -1812
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)
Subject: Re: Turbo

Mike Rooth says

>Turner engineering do a high performance head for the 2.25 petrol,and
>a firm advertise a performance exhaust for the same engine in LRO.

Question about these exhaust systems? Most of these systems seem to be some
type of header system. In creating these they do away with the connection
between the intake and exhaust manifolds. Thus you lose preheating of the
intake air. This would seem to be good when the engine is warm (the cooler
the air the more you can get in) but wouldn't this cause problems in colder
conditions? I thought I was told that one of the major problems with the 2
barrell Weber is that it uses a new intake manifold and thus you get no
preheating and until the engine is warm, the performance is poor. Is this
right? Any thoughts?
Greg



Message No 103


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 13:12:41 1993
Return-Path: <bellas@gamma.tti.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 11:00:25 PDT
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  washing and paint


> PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blu
> quite nice really!

Mine used to be that faded dusky LR blue, after that sand storm at Salton
Sea (southern california) though it is mostly dull silver :-).

With respect to the poster about just polishing the aluminum, I did that
on my SI 80", polished the hood all the way down to 600 grit polishing
compound. Thought it looked great until the first time I had to drive
into the sun (Wow!!!!!!!!!).

			-Pete-



Message No 104


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 15:36:56 1993
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca
Subject: OVLR June Newsletter
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Wed, 30 Jun 1993 13:29:49 -0400
Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada


                        OTTAWA VALLEY LAND ROVERS

          1016 NORMANDY CRESCENT, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA K2C 0L4
                                                      3 June 1993
G' day eh.

A word from the president...believe it or not, this club has been together for
10 years.  As president of Ottawa Valley Land Rovers: Happy Birthday OVLR!
I would like to underline the work and dedication of the people that have
kept the club alive.  Most of us know how difficult it is, nowadays, to keep
a non-profit organisation active.  I'm proud of the team that currently works
with me...  for you.  Let's also recognize the commitment of the previous
members of the executive and the special contributors like the newsletter
editor and the special event coordinators.  The strength of this club has a
lot to do with what has been done in the past.  Regular activities, along
with the newsletter that appears at your door every month, constitute the
corner stone of the organisation's survival.

A few people do a lot of work for us all.  In return we can attend events,
send our low membership dues in on time,  and offer our help whenever
possible.   It is highly encouraging to see how many people attend the
executive meetings.  It shows support and interest to the executive; it gives
a meaning to what we do.  That is the way the road will be paved for ten more
years...  Thanks to all.

FROM THE EDITOR....If you missed the engine tuning session at MINIMAN MOTORS
LTD., you missed a golden opportunity to improve the performance of your Land
Rover.  In my case, the compression was checked ( 150 lbs across !!!!), and
the tappets were adjusted. The end result was a quieter, better performing
engine. My son Bryan learned how to set valve tappet clearances and tune a
petrol engine. My personal thanks to a very patient and helpful Ted Rose.

David and Suzie Bateman arrived from Montreal with a strange growth attached
to their steering,  looked like some disease out of control.   David will
surely be a prime Lug Nut candidate for this rather innovative repair.
Fred Joyce and others decided David required repairs before proceeding any
farther. In short order the carbuncle was removed and repairs made. Good to
have people who care, that is what makes OVLR a great organization.

Bates was looking smart in his 107, hood down, sporting a new paint job in
Beaver Lumber Green.  Bates was reminded he missed the wheels,  Bates reply
"I have to get a smaller paint roller for the wheels".

Five Land Rovers ran better after this event and a number of members improved
their mechanical abilities.   We also had a good social encounter which
finished up with a pint at The Swan in Carp.

A number of people to thank, Ted Rose for organizing the event and providing
mechanical assistance, Jason Dowel for his mechanical skills, Yves Fortin for
calling the members and MINIMAN MOTORS for the use of their facilities.  The
Miniman advertisement in this issue is just a sample of what is available.
Visit Miniman, you will be pleasantly surprised at their selection of Land
Rover parts.

THE JUNE EXECUTIVE MEETING...The executive, with some help, did a lot of good
stuff on your behalf.  We still have money in the bank according to Treasurer
Tom Mayor  (I wish frugal Tom was running  Canada's finances). The club now
has 67 members. Arrangements were completed for the Birthday Party, details
under Club Events.

Club Trailer... is now painted in Northern Ireland, Bullet Proof, Bronze
Green.  The stoves have arrived and are being modified and installed.  Look
for the trailer at the Birthday Party. Again a number of people to thank for
their time and effort, Roy Bailey and Kanata Collision Limited for donating
their space and a painter to apply the bullet proof paint.. Jerry Dowell of
Otto's BMW for getting us a deal on the paint. Charlie Haigh of Rovers North
Limited for helping us with shipping the stoves and Ted Weagle and John Burke
of Burkes Metal Limited for trailer body work. And finally to Mike McD; the
old qrey haired codger did a super job.

Tenth Anniversary Album... The logistics of producing the album in time for
the Birthday Party simply did not work out.  We will have the album ready for
the Christmas Party.

Next Executive Meeting...Ottawa\Hull Naval Association (RCN),  150 Middle
Street (Location of the Christmas Party). Wednesday, 7 July 1993, 7:30 pm.
(613) 233-7009.

============================================================================
                                CLUB EVENTS...

JUNE...TENTH ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY PARTY ... The event of the decade held
19 and 20 JUNE.  Bring your Land Rover, your tent, and a suitable companion
if you wish.  Your dog is welcome on a leash.

How much does it cost..$15.00/individual...$6.00/children under
6 years... $25.00/family (Dowel tribe is not one family).

What OVLR provides...Saturday night chicken and rib supper, Sunday morning,
sausaqe and egg breakfast.

What to expect...a great time with your fellow Lug Nuts, off-Road events, and
fireworks display by Bates. Remember our GREEN ROAD, TREAD LIGHTLY on PUBLIC
and PRIVATE LAND policy. You may TRAVEL ONLY where OVLR PERMITS.   Forget
about the Boot and Bonnet and make your way to OVLR'S Birthday Party.

How to get to the Birthday Party... Follow the map to Mike Dolan's farm
on the page following.

                             [ map ]

==============================================================================

NEWS...WANTED...FOR SALE... EVENTS... ETC...

FOR SALE  - 1974 Ser III, fully restored, hard and soft top, 43,000 miles,
            $9500.00 \ negotiable.  Joel Harris, (613) 830-4750
FOR SALE  - Used truck cab, $200.00 firm. Call (613) 738-7880
FOR SALE  - Ser IIA vehicles available for parts. Robin Lewis (613) 725-3483.
WANTED    - 16" wheel from a 109".  Richard Wegner (819) 647-3467
AVAILABLE - Dual servo brake assembly, includes pedal box, $50.00 + taxes and
            shipping.  HAT SALVAGE LTD. Medicine Hat, Alberta. (403) 527-3800.

"DOWNEAST" V INTERNATIONAL LAND ROVER RALLY - Mid-Coast Maine, 26, 27 June,
Contact Myles J. Murphy, RR2, Box 84, Linconville Maine, 04849 USA.

ATLANTIC BRITISH LIMITED, LAND ROVER RALLY

                           RALLY DATA

 REGISTRATION: FREE! Call or write for your registration package.
 DATE        : July 16,17 and 18,1993
 PLACE       : Atlantic British, Ltd., Mechanicville, NY

 FACILITIES  : Free camping on-site (although with limited facilities,
               no hot water, showers, etc.). Local hotel listings,
               nearby campgrounds, etc. are available - make your
               reservations early so you're not disappointed!

ACTIVITIES   : Once again this year we'll be offering prizes for The
               Farthest Distance Traveled, Best Restoration, Most Unique,
               Best Original, and People's Choice. We'll also be adding
               awards for Range Rovers and Defender 11O's (we're
               expecting at least half a dozen of this new version of the
               "Godfather of all Rovers"- at the Rally).

You can also expect a couple of "Fun Runs" with your choice of on-or-off
road adventuring, our infamous Pig Roast (nominal fee charged), swap meet,
tech talks, restoration clinic, and plenty of tall tales, hot air, good
times and new friends.

                       So Please...Join Us!

BRITISH INVASION WEEKEND, STOWE VERMONT - 17, 18 and 19 September 1993. A
weekend of British beer,  food,  cars,  Land Rovers,  sports and historic
military stuff.   Usually attended by a number of OVLR Lug Nuts.  More
information later.

KANGAROO SWEAT SHIRTS - top quality, fall weight, oatmeal grey with OVLR
TENTH ANNIVERSARY LOGO, $40.00 including taxes. GOLF SHIRTS - green, OVLR
TENTH ANNIVERSARY LOGO, $20.00 including taxes.   Contact Yves Fortin (613)
237-9719 to order. Sweat Shirts and Golf Shirts will be on display and for
sale at the Birthday Party.

==============================================================================

GENERAL SERVICE.......................................By Robin Craig


Message No 105


From the UK this month comes news that Land Rover is getting bigger in a
literal sense.

Within 24 hours of the British Army's trials unit receiving their test
vehicles for Truck Utility Light, Truck Utility Medium and Truck Heavy Duty,
the "snoop" had arrived.

Bob Morrison reports the Truck Heavy Duty is the most interesting.  It is a
two axle four wheel vehicle, from there on a lot has been changed; the body
has been widened in the box to allow it to carry a standard NATO ammunition
pallet, minor changes have been made to the front body except for a modified
air intake system on the front fender. The tailgate has been changed to a
side hinged version with the spare wheel mounted on it.  For a lot of service
users, the fold down tailgate has been awkward. To reach any heavy stowed
equipment one has to stretch over the tailgate to reach the object.  Some
troops have undone the chains and let the tailgate fold down completely.  As
anyone who owns an ex-military vehicle will tell you, this results in the
tailgate striking the NATO hitch at one hell of a pace and causes a bloody
great dent. The vehicle is covered by a canvas tarp at present, but I'm sure
a hard top will be made available should the user trials demand it.  There is
a number of other changes, but Bob said "he was not permitted to examine the
vehicles closely".  Bob believes the overall track of the Truck Heavy Duty,
if not the other two vehicles may have changed. More news when we get it.
Remember where you read it first!

The Lincolnshire Land Rover Club in England have their own Lugnut styled
awards,  called the Team Bojit Blunder Awards.  Some of the winners have
managed to nearly equal our own Al Pilgrim. Tony Summerfield managed to hit
his caravan against an obstruction, he was on the way to a trailer reversing
competition. Another was Rick Wells, who on the last section of a trials
event ran out of gas; Rick is the manager of a local fuel company. The winner
was Eric Rawlings who turned up five hours early for his job as an event
timekeeper.

If you remember, I have been talking about the six new V8 powered Courtaulds
Composite Armour Vehicles (CAV) based on the Land Rover Defender that have
gone into service with the British Forces in Bosnia and Northern Ireland. I
was interested to find out just how much these cost. I was not prepared for
the answer, 48,000 each!!  On the same subject, Courtaulds have been told
that they may not call their armoured vehicle the CAV Defender, because the
boys at the factory have not sanctioned the use of the name.  Don't you hate
it when somebody gives you free publicity.

It seems that our own Dale Desprey has more influence than one might have
imagined. The British Motor Industry Heritage Trust (BMIHT) has a shuttle
service to get you from the car park to the museum.  The shuttle tractor is
a modified Defender 110 towing three trailers with seats. What does this have
to do with Dale you ask?  Well the BMIHT shuttle has a set of under riders
fitted to the front.

That's all for this month..........................................Robin

CHEERS, DAVID MEADOWS.....................................(613) 599-8746

==============================================================================

                [ MiniMan ad with available parts list ]
                         [ Octopus Parts ad ]


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada


Onward to July 1993

Back to May 1993

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