Land Rover Owner Mailing List
Archive Dec 1992


Message No 1


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  2 10:07:30 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Land Rover purchase
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 15:58:34 GMT

Grettir,
I dont know what sort of prices you would expect to pay in the U.S,
so cant comment on that aspect.The 88" sounds pretty duff,chassis
corrosion can be repaired,but if the U.S is anything like the U.K
it is a tedious business,and expensive,too.I speak from recent 
harrowing experience,here,having*just* got my 88" through its
MOT test and taxed it with 20 minutes to spare:-)Fortunately a
friend did the welding,so it wasnt expensive.
I suggest you check the steel parts of the 109",chassis,bulkhead,
door frames etc for rot.It should run OK in all gears,and in two
and four wheel drive.Steering shouldnt wander too much either.
The 88" will be of limited use for spares,since if the engine *and*
the chassis are duff,you are left with some running gear (not brakes)
gearbox,and odds and ends.I have found the brakes easy enough to service.
As for reliability in daily use,it obviously depends on the mileage.I use
mine every day,but only do about 15 miles a day.A friend used his daily
on a 30 mile round trip and his was OK.I would suggest that they are 
better when used regularly than every now and then.
Fuel consumption from 14 to 18 to the gallon,Imperial,leaded fuel.
Does that help at all?
All the best,
Mike Rooth (1970 88" diesel,now road legal)



Message No 2


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  2 11:10:52 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 09:02:06 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: grettir%pension@wicat.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  Advice on purchasing Land Rovers.

$4.5K for a 109 in OK driver condition is a reasonable price. This assumes the
body panels are mostly straight.

I do not know where you are at but judging from the condition of the 88,
i would check the 109's frame and firewall closely. Both are replacable but
a lot of work & expensive.  Replacing either almost always leads to a sever
attack of shifitter's disease where you end up replacing everything that is not
perfect because you have it appart anyhow and it wouldnot make sense to put a
badly worn part into the car.

A land Rover in very good mechanical condition withoutcrystalized axles is VERY
dependable, but the petrol milage is not all that good. Mine gets about 15 to 18
miles per gallon.  

I went for 4 years with my 109 as my only commute car. I was putting about 70 
miles per week day on it.  

If you buy them, I recommend Rovers North for parts & use only DOT4 brake fluid.

TeriAnn



Message No 3


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec  7 11:31:24 1992
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Blue soft top, want it GREEN!, how?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 17:26:57 GMT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

Hi Landy.people,
                 having sorted out much of the mechanical stuff with helpful
comments from this list, I've now made it to the cosmetics.  Yes, LR's do have
cosmetics.

My Lightweight is painted a lurid shade of two-tone gloss blue with white
stripes.  Obviously I want to change it!  I intend to spray with Nato Green
with a matt finish, but this would leave me with a blue canvas soft top.  Any
ideas on how I can dye the soft top green (permanently, no water colours
please!)?

Cheers,
Steve.  (V8 Lightweight)



Message No 4


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec  7 16:35:59 1992
Return-Path: <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 17:31:39 -0500
From: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Painting...

Speaking of paint (on which subject I will learn a great deal I suspect since
my rover is about three shades of orange and two shades of limestone) does
anyone have any reccommendations for painting drivetrain components?  I have
wirewheeled my rover's swivel ball housings, trackrods, axel housings, and
various brackets/hangers, then applied naval jelly to remove microscopic
rust. but I don't have any clue what to prime and paint them with.  (btw,
they look great!  Nice grey metal...)   The manual says something about
chasis black, but I haven't located anything by that name that comes in
spraycans (I don't have a compressor suitable for painting) and this can't
wait since Ill be blasted if I'm going to just put this stuff back on and
drive through a michigan winter...  (I painted my brake drums with manifold
paint (yeah, I know that it reduces the heat dissapation performance, but
I don't do camel trophies in my landie...))
 
Any suggestions would be most welcome (horror anecdotes about rubberized
undercoating welcome also)
 
--chris
 


Message No 5


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec  7 17:28:53 1992
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Painting... 
In-Reply-To: barbeau's message of Mon, 07 Dec 92 14:31:39 -0800.
             <199212072231.AA24717@io.eecs.umich.edu> 
Date: 	Mon, 7 Dec 1992 15:24:10 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

Eastwood sells "proper chassis black", which they claim is the proper
shade of semigloss for everyone's factory chassis black. I've never tried it.

I've had good luck with a spray epoxy called Zynolite. It's a rust
preventative paint, quite durable, apparently has just enough
elasticity to absorb stone hits rather than chipping.

It's sometimes hard to fine; chain hardware stores, in particular, seem
not to carry it (but carry Rustoleum instead). Call around, you'll like
it if you can find it.

The Eastwood stuff may be good, too. Their catalog's fun, if nothing else.

Name:        Eastwood Company
Address:     580 Lancaster Avenue
             Box 296
             Malvern, PA 19355
Phone:       (800) 345-1178



Message No 6


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 04:21:21 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Painting
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 10:16:49 GMT

'Morning All,
Chris,do you *really* mean that you have wire brushed your swivel
housing ball? 'Cos if so,I've a nasty feeling you shouldnt have.After
all it *is* supposed to be smooth chrome,so the seal will work.Be
interesting to see if a smooth painted surface retains the housing oil,
though,(much cheaper than a)A new housing,or b)Having them re-chromed.)
I recently painted my rear cross member with engine enamel,brushed on,
and it seems to be the only paint that will stay put.Might do for your
axle casings etc.if you can get it in the States.As for the chassis,there
is an American two pack rust proofing paint called Belzona(very pricey over
here,I got given some)which I have used on my chassis with some success.
Trouble is,the chassis rusts from the inside out.
Damn!Got to work,more later.
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 7


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 05:55:44 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Painting
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 11:52:25 GMT

To continue:-)
I found that nearly all the welding needed for the MOT this year
was rust from the inside of the chassis.The exception was the centre
PTO cross-member,which still had black paint on the inside,but had been
undersealed on the outside.Usual problem.Loose underseal,water underneath,
death.So now I use Waxoyl,which is a wax with a rustproofer in it which is
sprayed on using the pumped up contianer supplied for the job.The spray
incorporates an air pump to pressurise the can(and a safety valve,for
obvious reasons:-))This is sprayed on both outside *and* inside,either via
whatever holes are already drilled in the chassis,or via ones you drill yourselfand seal with a rubber grommet after.I dont think it is available in the States,
but there must be something similar,surely?
Steve,I was given a gallon of NATO Green,by an ex soldier.The can read somethinglike "Paint brushing green,matt finish,IRR".I brushed it on,two coats,looked nice,but had problems.I found that if rubbed,or scratched it went black,and it was
a royal SOD to keep clean.Like you had to scrub the mud off:-(
I think the black may have something to do with the IRR,which I was informed
stood for "Infra Red Reflective",but I have a sneaking idea that should be
Refractive.Wonder what it does to Police radar?It is lovely paint to brush on
though,*and*the brushes clean in White Spirit.I asked about how the army keep
it clean,and was told "Steam clean and slap another coat on".The old girl is
now Deep Bronze Green synthetic gloss,also brushed on.Well,saves masking:-)
Incidentally the electric problems have been solved.After the starter motor
fell off,necessitating a new one (81 quid exchange..groan,groan),the problem
went away.Turned out to be the grotty solenoid connections in the old one.
Suppose its an ill wind.....
Cheers
Mike Rooth



Message No 8


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 07:35:57 1992
Return-Path: <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 08:33:19 -0500
From: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Paint...


Chris K:  Thanks.  I just got off the phone ordering the Eastwood catalog,
          so we'll see what they have to offer.
 
Mike R:   Heavens, I thought that I said swivel ball housing, and not "swivel
          housing ball" but in any case, rest easy!  I did the housing only,
          and got rechromed balls from Rovers North.  (The old ones were in
          *very* bad shape, though I would have liked to have them redone as
          opposed to buying a reconditioned set)  The frame may rust from 
          the inside, but there is an awful lot of rust on the surface, and
          here in Michigan, you hedge your bets.  I've sprayed the inside of t
          the frame with Waxoyl.
 
Here's another question.  Engine temp seems more than a little low (I haven't
changed the thermostat, yet) and I wondered if anyone had actually changed
over from the mechanical fan to an electrically driven fan.  I have plenty 
of power after switching to a 180amp alternator, so I thought that this
might be workable solution, and really help the engine temp.  I don't pull 
anything like a trailer for more than a couple of miles at a time, and the 
full time fan is probably more than I need by way of cooling power.  Thoughts?
 
thanks again!
 
--chris



Message No 9


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 07:49:45 1992
Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Snippets
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 13:46:04 GMT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1]

There have been quite a few mail messages about painting and other subjects
flying around. No doubt they got to my site out of order, but here are my
comments anyway.


1.  Painting the chrome swivel balls can't be good.

2.  What's wrong with good old Smooth Hammerite for the chassis, it paints over
rust easily and one coat is thick?

3.  Running an electric fan is a good idea to prevent overcooling.  Apparently
it saves 4% of engine power too on a 2.25 LR.  I have twin electrics on my V8
which I switch off when crossing rivers to stop the fan blades breaking.  (If
you have the engine driven fan it's wise to slacken the drive belt to allow
some slippage for the same reason).  Warm-up on cold days is faster too.  You do
need a good battery to run fans off-road all day tho'.

4.  Whoever has the "180amp alternator" must tow it behind in a trailer surely
;-)  How big is this beast?

5.  Still no-one has told me how to dye my blue canvas top green.........

Cheers,
Steve.



Message No 10


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 08:40:55 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: More Paint
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 14:37:21 GMT

Steve,
Hammerite isnt oil or fuel (or much else) proof.I found this out on
my rear cross member,which is why I did it with engine enamel.A friend
who has an Edwardian American car did his fuel tank with smooth hammerite

The tank is more like a large oil drum behind the seats(like a Mercer
Raceabout).After a couple of months,and some spilt petrol,bingo!no paint.
Definitely off the stuff.And I still dont know how to dye your canvas
green:-(
Mike



Message No 11


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 09:39:38 1992
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: Painting 
In-Reply-To: M.J.Rooth's message of Tue, 08 Dec 92 02:16:49 -0800.
             <9212081016.AA28372@hpc.lut.ac.uk> 
Date: 	Tue, 8 Dec 1992 07:33:53 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

	Chris,do you *really* mean that you have wire brushed your swivel
	housing ball?

No, not at all (I don't even have a rover!). This is suspension arms
and such (on Triumphs).



Message No 12


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec  8 23:10:12 1992
Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Thanks for the advice...
From: pension!grettir@wicat.com (Grettir Asmundarson)
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 92 15:09:41 MST
Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679

Thanks to Teriann Wakeman, James Edwards, and Mike Rooth for their
advice on the purchase of two Land Rovers that I had come across.

Based on their suggestions, I gave both LRs a thorough going-over and
found that they were both in bad enough condition that they probably
wouldn't be worth the salvage.  Both had extensive corrosion/rot in the
frame, panels, and door frames, as well as mechanical problems that
would have probably meant a complete rebuild of the engines and
transmissions.

Ugh!  It's a shame to see two great cars that just haven't been cared
for properly.

===========================================================================
|  grettir@pension.UUCP  ..or..              |  "Waltzing's for dreamers  |
|    ..!wicat!pension!grettir                |     And losers in love"    |
|  The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679   |     - Richard Thompson     |
===========================================================================



Message No 13


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  9 05:01:10 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Green Tops
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 10:58:41 GMT

Steve,
I am told by a lady colleague that there is,or was,available a
"dye tablet".She apparently once had occasion to dye a large
amount of hessian (in the bath).As it happens the colour was
about LR Bronze Green.Enquire at a good old fashioned hardware
store.Personally,I think you may have to bleach it first.
Dont know how permanent the dye was though.
The only other suggestion I have is if you can somehow get in
touch with a firm that makes horse rugs.The outdoor rug known
as the New Zealand Rug is traditionally canvas,equally is
traditionally green.I've got two,one blue,one green,both about
LR colour.I realise it is a long shot but who knows?
Cheers
Mike



Message No 14


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  9 10:51:13 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 08:48:10 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, pension!grettir@wicat.com
Subject: Re:  Thanks for the advice...

You might contact Rovers North (802)899-0032.  They always carry a list of
Land Rovers for sale.

Best luck finding one to fit your needs

TeriAnn



Message No 15


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  9 10:57:22 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 08:54:59 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  Green Tops

Mike, Steve,
I think Mike's lady colleague was talking about Ritz dyes.  That is the standard
dye that is readilly available in stores and it comes in tablet form.  You
add it to what you want to dye in the washing machine. If you dye something
in a machine, do not forget to run the machine empty afterwards to get
the residue dye out before laundry goes in.

The dye does fade (as does most) with repeated washings.  You could always
redye it if it looks faded or stained.  

TeriAnn
ex-tie-dye expert now regulated to sanding on TR3s



Message No 16


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec  9 14:22:45 1992
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 20:22:31 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: rovers for sale


TeriAnn has recently suggested calling rovers north for their listing of rovers
for sale.  I recently sent a message suggesting the same (but am unsure of
whether or not it made it onto this net).  The list is officially updated
monthly, but two recent orders I placed with them were returned with two
different "November" lists (the second was an expanded version of the first)-
so I think it may be updated more often than that.  There were some interesting
rigs for sale in there (including three forward controls) and the prices
ranged from $450 (a basket case???  probably not much worse than what has
recently been described as the $4K two-for-one deal) to >$15K.  If you are a 
northeasterner, there was a restored early '70's series IIA '88 in NYC for
$10.5K (obo), a "nice looking freshly painted" IIA '88 in CT for $2.5K (in 
need of frame repair), and another series IIA '88 in the syracuse area for
$1500 (also in need of "minor" frame repair).  Give 'em a call at 802-879-
0032, buy a coffee mug, parts catalog, and get psyched!

r.dushin/nigel hamilton

ps there is absolutely no connection between my nigel hamilton ('60 series II
'88 hardtop) and that guy who wrote the book (and slammed) the kennedys.....
my nigel can't even read!



Message No 17


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 16 14:25:21 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:20:24 CST


I thought you would all like to know that I am finally a Land Rover owner!

I've only seen four here in St. Louis in the past ten years, and I now own
one of them.  It is a 1969 Series IIA petrol 88" in mixed condition.  On
the plus side, the frame is absolutely solid, with only traces of light
surface rust in spots.  There is no rust-through whatsoever.  The cockpit
is pretty much stock (I think - not much to compare it to) with the
exception of an added ammeter.  Body is pretty straight - front is a bit
beat up on the fenders and bumper.  The odometer shows 69k miles, which I
am beginning to suspect might actually be real (ie, not >100k miles).  The
reasons I am suspecting this is overall frame condition (lots of salt in
St. Louis in the winter), and the fact that it still has the original
Lucas headlamps.  It has been stored inside with no road use since 1986.

I got it for an amazingly low price, because of the negatives.  They are:
previous owner got it in a trade, and never used it and did not know
anything about it (other than it was "odd"), the right rear axle is
broken, and all the hydraulics are shot.  Of course, after not being
started in nearly seven years, it doesn't run right at the moment.  It is
now parked in my garage, waiting resuscitation.  I suspect an ignition
problem to be the cause of the nonstarting condition - the engine turns
freely and everything seems to be in good mechanical condition (the engine
compartment wiring is another case entirely - someone did some dissection
in there - lots of loose ends right now).

I've got my Rovers North catalog, my Haynes manual, and I'm starting to go
through the beast figuring out what needs doing.  I do have a few questions:

1. The broken right rear axle.  Based on what I read in the Rovers North
   newsletter, this seems to be a not infrequent problem.  Not having had
   to deal with this before, it seems to me that I will have to pull the
   rear differential in order to remove the broken off stub of the axle
   from the differential gear, so a new axle can be inserted.  Does this
   type of failure typically injure the differential, or is the diff
   usually unscathed?  Is my method correct for replacing the broken
   axle?  I am wondering because the Rovers North newsletter indicated the
   wisdom of carrying a spare set of axles with you on trips - which
   implies to me that removal of the differential may not be *typically*
   involved (it would seem to be a rather elaborate repair to attempt
   while off road in the wilderness).  Anybody have any experience with
   broken axles?  What sequence of events leads to a broken axle?

2. Are Land Rovers as scarce where you are as they are here?  (Those of
   you in England are luckier in this respect than the rest of the
   world).  I spent some time calling the 40 or so junkyards in the St.
   Louis area looking for a derelict for some parts, and didn't find
   anything at all.

3. Anybody have a derelict that they want to sell some parts off of?  I
   need some bits, and I wouldn't mind making some changes, and I
   wouldn't mind having some spares.  I think it wonderful that I can get
   most everything new through Rovers North.  Their pricing strikes me as
   sort of erratic - some things are amazingly cheap, others are
   reasonable, and others are astoundingly expensive.  I guess I've been
   spoiled by junkyard scrounging for easily obtainable stuff.

   Needs: front grille "Land Rover" aluminum badge; Zenith carb throttle
   to accelerator lever link; right rear axle; front bumper; rear window
   metal slide lock (I don't know what the heck to call it - it fits into
   a hole in the glass and attaches to the window slide rail); rear
   window metal edge strip (fits on the window glass itself); spare 15"
   wheel; ignition key switch; battery tie down; front parking light
   lenses; 4" amber turn signal lenses; engine hand crank; original
   equipment toolset; original equipment jack; other original equipment
   (don't know what was normally supplied).

   Big desires: Fairey overdrive unit; auxiliary fuel tank; winch; rear
   pto driveshaft and etc; safari roof; canvas top frame pieces.

4. Any way to verify the build date of my Land Rover, say from the chassis
   number, or engine serial number?  The title I got says 1969, but there
   is actually some room for doubt on this (though it seems reasonable
   given the configuration of the vehicle).

5. The Rovers North catalog often states that various suffixes are needed
   to ascertain the correct part number.  Anyone know where these code
   letters all are?  I presume they are stamped in various arcane places
   on the transmission, etc.

Well, that's enough for now.  Suffice to say I am very excited to finally
have a Land Rover, and I am looking forward to getting to work on my beast
in the near future (probably not till after the first of the year as time
becomes available (finally!)).

Mark Grieshaber
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com

ps. Special thanks to Mike Rooth for teaching me how to drive a Land Rover
via email!  Thanks Mike!  I'll probably need a refresher by the time I get
this one drivable!



Message No 18


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 16 18:06:22 1992
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 00:07:53 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: rear axle


Mark-
congrads on your new purchase......sounds like you've got the fever now!

you asked:
>1. The broken right rear axle.  Based on what I read in the Rovers North
   newsletter, this seems to be a not infrequent problem.  Not having had
   to deal with this before, it seems to me that I will have to pull the
   rear differential in order to remove the broken off stub of the axle
   from the differential gear, so a new axle can be inserted.  Does this
   type of failure typically injure the differential, or is the diff
   usually unscathed?  Is my method correct for replacing the broken
   axle?  I am wondering because the Rovers North newsletter indicated the
   wisdom of carrying a spare set of axles with you on trips - which
   implies to me that removal of the differential may not be *typically*
   involved (it would seem to be a rather elaborate repair to attempt
   while off road in the wilderness).  Anybody have any experience with
   broken axles?  What sequence of events leads to a broken axle?

A few summers ago I broke my left side rear axle while raking hay in a field
full of woodchuck holes.  I also needed a brake job and hub seal replacement
at the same time, so stripped off both rear hubs entirely.  I don't believe 
that this is necessary, however, and you should be able to remove your axle
without even removing your roadwheel.  Just remove the six bolts on your
hub, remove the nut securing the axle, and it should slide right out.  As for
the other end (the broken piece), however, you are right in assuming that you'
will have to remove the differential.  Just unbolt the drive shaft and the
ten or so bolts that hold the diff in place and it should come right out....
this assumes, of course, that you have also removed the other axle, not to
mention draining out the oioil.  Mine broke right near the spline that fits 
into the diff.  I fingered it out, cleaned out the casing, and bolted her
back together.  It was not a difficult job.

you also ask:
>2. Are Land Rovers as scarce where you are as they are here?  (Those of
   you in England are luckier in this respect than the rest of the
   world).  I spent some time calling the 40 or so junkyards in the St.
   Louis area looking for a derelict for some parts, and didn't find
   anything at all.

In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three
Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family.  I suspect that
this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the
road every day.  I reflected with my brother on this subject just the other
night and came to the conclusion that the rate of return to the highway now
exceeds the rate of decay in fields and lots across america.  I thank rover-
heads all over and places like rovers north for continued supply of parts
and accessories (not to mention the deals they-RN-offer for resto-projects
and the like.....up to 20% of your parts purchases can go to cash credit
for a future expense at RN-not a bad deal at all).

you also also ask:
4. Any way to verify the build date of my Land Rover, say from the chassis
   number, or engine serial number?  The title I got says 1969, but there
   is actually some room for doubt on this (though it seems reasonable
   given the configuration of the vehicle).

I have an old factory manual (circa '62 or so) that lists serial numbers
with approximate dates of manufacture.  I am not sure if this was continued
in later issues.  There are also several books on rovers and rover history,
and I would not be surprised if a detailed accounting appears in some of
them.  Anyone out there got a copy??

Hurry up and get that thing on the road!

r.dushin/nige, my '60 '88.



Message No 19


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 06:35:58 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: New Owner
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:34:04 GMT

Congratulations Mark! Sounds like a good buy.Welcome to the nuthouse.
Do you *know* the chassis number? My 88" 1970 has the suffix letter J.
Plate is attached to the bulkhead,inside the cab,and also tells you
how to work low box etc.At least home market stuff did,maybe export
was different.
Cheers
Mike Rooth.



Message No 20


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:44:16 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: rear axle
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:40:51 CST


> Mark-
> congrads on your new purchase......sounds like you've got the fever now!

Thanks!  I've had the fever for quite a long time, just had no way of
doing anything about it till now!

> that this is necessary, however, and you should be able to remove your axle
> without even removing your roadwheel.  Just remove the six bolts on your
> hub, remove the nut securing the axle, and it should slide right out.  As for
> the other end (the broken piece), however, you are right in assuming that you'
> will have to remove the differential.  Just unbolt the drive shaft and the
> ten or so bolts that hold the diff in place and it should come right out....
> this assumes, of course, that you have also removed the other axle, not to
> mention draining out the oioil.  Mine broke right near the spline that fits 
> into the diff.  I fingered it out, cleaned out the casing, and bolted her
> back together.  It was not a difficult job.

Yup, I've already pulled the axle as described, and it broke right at the
inside splines too.  I'm glad to hear that you had no diff damage, and my
concept of what was involved was correct.  Doesn't sound so bad a job the
way you describe it (thanks for the encouragement).

> In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three
> Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family.  I suspect that
> this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the
> road every day.


Message No 21


*Where* the heck do you live?  From your post, someplace reasonably rural?
Perhaps my problem is that there aren't many in an urban environment like
St. Louis?

> I have an old factory manual (circa '62 or so) that lists serial numbers
> with approximate dates of manufacture.  I am not sure if this was continued
> in later issues.  There are also several books on rovers and rover history,
> and I would not be surprised if a detailed accounting appears in some of
> them.  Anyone out there got a copy??

I'm waiting on the two volume service manual set, so maybe it will be in
there.  Anybody got a book on Land Rovers that may give this information?

> Hurry up and get that thing on the road!
> r.dushin/nige, my '60 '88.

I'm hurrying, I'm hurrying!  :)

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 22


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:50:42 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: New Owner
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:47:03 CST

> Congratulations Mark! Sounds like a good buy.Welcome to the nuthouse.

Yeah, I'm very pleased.  Even though it will be awhile to get the beast
running, (no time to work on it right now), I find myself going down to
the garage now and then just to enjoy looking at it!

> Do you *know* the chassis number? My 88" 1970 has the suffix letter J.
> Plate is attached to the bulkhead,inside the cab,and also tells you
> how to work low box etc.At least home market stuff did,maybe export
> was different.
> Cheers
> Mike Rooth.

Hmm. Ok, yes, mine has that plate with the chassis number.  I'll check
again when I get home, but I *thought* that the number was all integer
digits (no letters).  Let me check.  If there is a trailing letter,
then that letter is the "suffix" Rovers North is referring to?

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 23


From shute!twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 17 10:53:12 1992
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:52:54 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  New Land Rover Owner, Finally!

Well Mark,
I start by sayng congradulations on your new purchase & go from there..

1.Axles -
The amount of damage a broken axle causes depends upon where it breaks and
how far you drive before you address it.

To remove a rear axle, just remove a ring of boltsthat can be seen around the 
center of the rear wheel,and pry the round metal piece off.  You may need a
chissle or some such wedge between the peice you just unbolted and the axle
housing to break it loose. The axle itself is attached to the peice by
a large nut & will come out with it.

Axles break where the splines end on ether the inside or outside splines.

If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk
of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken
them out before you were even able to stop the LR.

If the axle breaks on the outboard end and you right away: remove the rear
drive shaft; and 2 remove the other rear axle, chances are that when youget
a chance to clean out the chips and replace the axles, your diff will be OK.

Be very careful to remove all the metal chips.  They have ways of moving
about and lodging themselves in you ring and pinion.

Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I
strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and
stay away from used axles.

In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those
times it took out the differintial.  I kep replacing one side only and used 
used axles.  The last time, i replaced both with new axles.


2. Purchase the Factory manuals.  They are good.

2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area.  The
Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland
meet brings in about the same.

3. Hydrolics-
If its been sitting all this time, I would recommend replacing all the 
cylinders including the masters with new ones.  this would save you a lot
of iffyresult rebuilding.  ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID!  Look for the blue
Castrol brake fluid.  Its the most common.  

Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the
air bubbles out without a pressure bleed.  The EZ Bleed, makes the job a 
one person job.

4.  I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps.  Are yours
mounted on the wings or inboard?

5. A used under seat petrol tank can be fitted under the drivers seat.
You would need to cut the seat box, and install a filler on the driver's
side.  Take the stock filler hose, cut it in half and clamp a 4 inch or so
length of new exhaust tubing inbetween the halves to lengthen the hose.

Works fime, looks factory

6. Almost no on has a rear PTO.  The take off for the PTO is also where the
overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both.

You will find part numbers stamped on the parts. The transission number is
stamped on the side near the filler, it memory serves.

7. Keep a close eye on the 90wt to see whats leaking where. This includes:
Both diffs, transmission, transfer case and both front axle housings (
outboard ot the swivel balls).  It gets very expensive if you run dry,
and old seals get brittle and leak.

Good luck sorting out your new toy.  Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers.
He has been working on one that has been storred forever.

Take care,

TeriAnn



Message No 24


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:55:28 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:52:54 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  New Land Rover Owner, Finally!

Well Mark,
I start by sayng congradulations on your new purchase & go from there..

1.Axles -
The amount of damage a broken axle causes depends upon where it breaks and
how far you drive before you address it.

To remove a rear axle, just remove a ring of boltsthat can be seen around the 
center of the rear wheel,and pry the round metal piece off.  You may need a
chissle or some such wedge between the peice you just unbolted and the axle
housing to break it loose. The axle itself is attached to the peice by
a large nut & will come out with it.

Axles break where the splines end on ether the inside or outside splines.

If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk
of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken
them out before you were even able to stop the LR.

If the axle breaks on the outboard end and you right away: remove the rear
drive shaft; and 2 remove the other rear axle, chances are that when youget
a chance to clean out the chips and replace the axles, your diff will be OK.

Be very careful to remove all the metal chips.  They have ways of moving
about and lodging themselves in you ring and pinion.

Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I
strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and
stay away from used axles.

In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those
times it took out the differintial.  I kep replacing one side only and used 
used axles.  The last time, i replaced both with new axles.


2. Purchase the Factory manuals.  They are good.

2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area.  The
Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland
meet brings in about the same.

3. Hydrolics-
If its been sitting all this time, I would recommend replacing all the 
cylinders including the masters with new ones.  this would save you a lot
of iffyresult rebuilding.  ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID!  Look for the blue
Castrol brake fluid.  Its the most common.  

Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the
air bubbles out without a pressure bleed.  The EZ Bleed, makes the job a 
one person job.

4.  I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps.  Are yours
mounted on the wings or inboard?

5. A used under seat petrol tank can be fitted under the drivers seat.
You would need to cut the seat box, and install a filler on the driver's
side.  Take the stock filler hose, cut it in half and clamp a 4 inch or so
length of new exhaust tubing inbetween the halves to lengthen the hose.

Works fime, looks factory

6. Almost no on has a rear PTO.  The take off for the PTO is also where the
overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both.

You will find part numbers stamped on the parts. The transission number is
stamped on the side near the filler, it memory serves.

7. Keep a close eye on the 90wt to see whats leaking where. This includes:
Both diffs, transmission, transfer case and both front axle housings (
outboard ot the swivel balls).  It gets very expensive if you run dry,
and old seals get brittle and leak.

Good luck sorting out your new toy.  Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers.
He has been working on one that has been storred forever.

Take care,

TeriAnn



Message No 25


From shute!growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM Thu Dec 17 11:31:49 1992
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:31:30 PST
From: growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell)
To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!
Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Content-Length: 1471

Mark,

  Welcome to the wonderful and zany world of Rovering. Here is my input on your questions:

1. You will probably have to pull the rear diff. to get the broken piece out. If your lucky
   a strong magnet on a stick will get it but likley the splines are twisted into the diff.
   so even out on the bench the job will require a brass drift and a hammer. Don't forget
   that you must pull the other axel out before you try to pull the diff. Replace both axels
   since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not that big a job to pull the diff.
   , I have helped with seveal in the field. *Tip* Your Rover has British nuts and bolts
   on the axels and trans/transfer assys., so plan on finding the proper tools so you don't
   screw up all the fasteners. Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but
   the guy won't have them on his truck. Another possible source is a motorcycle shop that
   caters to British bikes BSA, Triumph, ect. With a typical Rover broken axel the diff. 
   will be just fine. The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break
   to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique will save
   your axels. 

2. The is a Land Rover Club, and here in California we have a get together once in awhile.
   I will send you a membership application if you give me you address. Maybe the parts
   suppliers will give you the names of Rover ownners near you.

Regards, Bill G.  



Message No 26


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 11:33:58 1992
Return-Path: <growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:31:30 PST
From: growl@vis.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!
Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Content-Length: 1471

Mark,

  Welcome to the wonderful and zany world of Rovering. Here is my input on your questions:

1. You will probably have to pull the rear diff. to get the broken piece out. If your lucky
   a strong magnet on a stick will get it but likley the splines are twisted into the diff.
   so even out on the bench the job will require a brass drift and a hammer. Don't forget
   that you must pull the other axel out before you try to pull the diff. Replace both axels
   since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not that big a job to pull the diff.
   , I have helped with seveal in the field. *Tip* Your Rover has British nuts and bolts
   on the axels and trans/transfer assys., so plan on finding the proper tools so you don't
   screw up all the fasteners. Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but
   the guy won't have them on his truck. Another possible source is a motorcycle shop that
   caters to British bikes BSA, Triumph, ect. With a typical Rover broken axel the diff. 
   will be just fine. The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break
   to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique will save
   your axels. 

2. The is a Land Rover Club, and here in California we have a get together once in awhile.
   I will send you a membership application if you give me you address. Maybe the parts
   suppliers will give you the names of Rover ownners near you.

Regards, Bill G.  



Message No 27


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 11:49:11 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 11:45:42 CST

> If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk
> of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken
> them out before you were even able to stop the LR.
> ...
> Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I
> strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and
> stay away from used axles.
> 
> In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those
> times it took out the differintial.  I kep replacing one side only and used 
> used axles.  The last time, i replaced both with new axles.

I'm getting even more interested in seeing what is inside the rear diff
after hearing this.  What causes crystallization of the axle?  Repeated
stressing and vibration?  Sort of like metal fatigue when you bend it back
and forth?

> 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area.  The
> Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland
> meet brings in about the same.

At the last British Car Show in St. Louis, there was ONE Land Rover (and he
showed up late, at that).  I've only seen one Land Rover driving on the
street.

> Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the
> air bubbles out without a pressure bleed.  The EZ Bleed, makes the job a 
> one person job.

This is obviously a definite personal use reccomendation.  That's the kind
I value most.  Where is a good source for this device?

> 4.  I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps.  Are yours
> mounted on the wings or inboard?

Mine are mounted in the wings, so the grill is not directly applicable.  What
I really want is the aluminum "Land Rover" badge that holds the grill on.

> 6. Almost no on has a rear PTO.  The take off for the PTO is also where the
> overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both.

Now, I knew that, but it fell completely out of my head when I posted the
article.  :)  I would rather have the overdrive, myself.

> Take care,
> 
> TeriAnn

Thanks for the good advice.  I save all these articles and use them to guide
my work, so it really helps!

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 28


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 12:23:29 1992
Return-Path: <bellas@gamma.tti.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:20:42 PST
From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas)
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: rear axle


In addition to replacing the axles in pairs we were advised (by an old racing
friend of mine) to "ice" the axels before installation, it reduces the tendency
to crystalize. The procedure is to pack the axles in dry ice for about 24 
hours then let them return slowly to room temperature. We did this on the last
pair and haven't broken one since.

Good Luck.

			-Pete-



Message No 29


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 12:32:19 1992
Return-Path: <moore@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:58:07 GMT
From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV)
To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov
Subject: EZ Bleed

> 
> > Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the
> > air bubbles out without a pressure bleed.  The EZ Bleed, makes the job a 
> > one person job.
> 
> This is obviously a definite personal use reccomendation.  That's the kind
> I value most.  Where is a good source for this device?
> 

    Nisonger has them. 1-800-431-2496. Talk to Steve. Be aware that the 
    recommended pressure for the bleed kit may be too high, use a lower
    pressure if necessary. Using a higher pressure will definitly find 
    all of the loose fittings in the lines. Works good for the clutch, too.


    					Mark
    					--0-
    					moore@fsl.noaa.gov
    					NOAA - Boulder, CO USA
    	1961 Land Rover 109      1967 Triumph TR6C 



Message No 30


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 17:03:24 1992
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:04:53 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: hmmmmmm


Pete suggests:
>In addition to replacing the axles in pairs we were advised (by an old racing
friend of mine) to "ice" the axels before installation, it reduces the tendency
to crystalize. The procedure is to pack the axles in dry ice for about 24
hours then let them return slowly to room temperature. We did this on the last
pair and haven't broken one since.

Good Luck.

Just what is the reasoning behind this???  Is is sort of an annealing process?

and Mark wants......
>What
I really want is the aluminum "Land Rover" badge that holds the grill on. 

last time I checked these were available cheap from Rovers North.

Teriann wisely adds:

>ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID!  Look for the blue
Castrol brake fluid.  Its the most common.

This blue stuff is Castrol "LMA" is it not??  that's what I use.

Mark-on another note, I see you are a Monsanto employee.  In the event that
you are a chemist say "howdy" to Joe Rico for me. thanks.

-Russell Dushin



Message No 31


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 17:19:59 1992
Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:21:27 GMT
From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: dixon?


Teriann writes (to Mark):
>Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers.
He has been working on one that has been storred forever.

Long, long ago I use to get hard copies of this net action via a bro
(I was not hooked-in at the time) and thoroughly enjoyed the volumes
of "Dixon Kenner and the Swamp Beast" that he used to send me.  I have
not heard of him nor his toy since he retrieved that motor from some
dead 109.  What is the story, Dixon??  How's she running?  If she ain't,
then at least tell us how deep the snow is around her axles!

r.dushin



Message No 32


From shute!twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 17 18:52:29 1992
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:52:11 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!

Mark, it is extreamly difficult to properly bleed the LR hydrolics without a 
presurized system. There is a tendency for air to get trapped in the master
cylinders.  If Rovers North does not carry them, try the Roadster Factory
@(814)446-4444.  they carry them.

The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket.  They are a soft steel so they
twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking.

BTW, i have found that metric sockets fit Wintworth bolts.

TeriAnn



Message No 33


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 18:54:26 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:52:11 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
Subject: Re:  Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally!

Mark, it is extreamly difficult to properly bleed the LR hydrolics without a 
presurized system. There is a tendency for air to get trapped in the master
cylinders.  If Rovers North does not carry them, try the Roadster Factory
@(814)446-4444.  they carry them.

The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket.  They are a soft steel so they
twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking.

BTW, i have found that metric sockets fit Wintworth bolts.

TeriAnn



Message No 34


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:23:21 1992
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re: rear axle
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:47:14 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec

Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes:

> > In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three
> > Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family.  I suspect that
> > this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the
> > road every day.
> 

Message No 35


> *Where* the heck do you live?  From your post, someplace reasonably rural?
> Perhaps my problem is that there aren't many in an urban environment like
> St. Louis?

There are about 70 of them in the Ottawa area in all models, including
military ones.

Rgds,

Dixon
'64 lwb (still on axle stands (need an engine crane to swap engines...))


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada 



Message No 36


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:26:52 1992
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: dixon?
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:09:42 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec

u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes:

> Long, long ago I use to get hard copies of this net action via a bro
> (I was not hooked-in at the time) and thoroughly enjoyed the volumes
> of "Dixon Kenner and the Swamp Beast" that he used to send me.  I have
> not heard of him nor his toy since he retrieved that motor from some
> dead 109.  What is the story, Dixon??  How's she running?  If she ain't,
> then at least tell us how deep the snow is around her axles!

Dixon is averaging 70 hours a week at Statistics Canada (lots of deadlines
coming up) and dreaming how he is going to build a fancy pulley system
among the rafters in his garage to move one very stubborn engine which sits
in the way of some *serious* winter driving.

There is also the gauntlet laid down by the proud new owner of a Suzuki
something who not knowing what a LR is has challenged me to a towing
contest. (I figure with the PTO winch I can reel him in slowly like a
pathetic fish caught on a line <grin>)  Now, my *powerful* 2.25 litre
engine can manage 0 - 52 in something like 50-60 seconds.  I wonder how
much slower it will be with a thousand pounds of scrap tied behind?  Some
how methinks he will chicken out...

BTW, I understand that the pick-up south of Ottawa is still available for a
thousand or so dollars.

Rgds,

Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada 



Message No 37


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:32:19 1992
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  New Land Rover Owner, Finally!
From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)
Date: 	Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:56:22 -0500
Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec

<car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com> writes:

> 2. Purchase the Factory manuals.  They are good.

Excellent is a better word.  They cover things in far more detail than the
Haynes could ever do for a real restoration job.  Of course, neither could
beat the mailing list for some pointers like how much to tighten the lock
nuts on the hubs... :-)

> 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area.  The
> Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland
> meet brings in about the same.

We invite the Jeep et cetera crowd to the annual swamp challenge.  SOmehow
they just never seem interested... :-)

> Good luck sorting out your new toy.  Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers.
> He has been working on one that has been storred forever.

Ask away...  Mine is awaiting the engine transplant still.  One has to deal
with a loose gravel garage floor, what is left of a Mini six feet in front
of the LR...  I can say that two of us could lift the replacement engine
and get it into position beside the LR (using a solid 2x4, but it is
*heavy*) and out of the way for winter Mini storage beside the LR.

I would also say that if you are into spending the time to rebuild the
hydraulics, you don't have to buy new.  Expect to spend a lot of time
though...

Rgds,

Dixon


--
dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca
FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada 



Message No 38


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 10:19:11 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 08:14:27 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  dixon?

Dixon,
Be careful there. The land Rover is light for its size and looks like it has
at least 3X its mass. I think the 4X4 with the best tyres and limited slip
diff would win.  Before you get into a link frame to frame pull contest think
of your rear axles.  Install a special set of soft metal (twist but does not
break) axles and a limited slip diff.

If its a winch to winch contest, make sure you have massive cables, a
line out the back tied to a sand anchor and be prepaired to have your
lead battery connector melt when the winch is stalled & drawing max
current.

Men!

TeriAnn



Message No 39


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 14:32:07 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Aftermarket Land Rover "soft steel" axles?
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:28:41 CST

TeriAnn said:

> The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket.  They are a soft steel so
> they twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking.

Ok, sounds very interesting.  The idea is that the (momentary) twisting
saves both the axle and the diff by absorbing the (momentary) excessive
torsion?  What aftermarket sources exist for Land Rover parts?  The only
parts source I know of is Rovers North.  I'd be very interested in
investigating these axles, and I have also heard of replacement door tops
(side screens) that are all aluminum (no steel frame) (my side screens
are just about trash).

If anyone has any names, addresses and phone numbers for *any* aftermarket
Land Rover stuff, I would be very interested in hearing from you!

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 40


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 18:33:58 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Thanks for that tip!
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 18:30:48 CST

Bill G. said:
> Replace both axels since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not
> that big a job to pull the diff.

You know, I am really glad you said that about replacing both axles at the
same time.  I had not even thought of the strain the *other* axle must have
taken at the time the right axle failed.  This is a very good point - I will
replace both.

> Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but the guy won't
> have them on his truck.

I checked with a friend of mine who has a Snap-On catalog - he's a professional
aircraft mechanic, so he buys lots of good tools. Here is what he found listed:
     3/16  # WOEX6A     19.95
     1BA     WOEX70     20.90   (any idea what 1BA and 0BA refer to?)
     0BA     WOEX80     21.80
     1/4     WOEX90     21.80
     5/16    WOEX100    24.50
     3/8     WOEX110    26.25
     7/16    WOEX120    28.50
     SET     WOEXS707   163.50
A bit rich for my toolbox.  I note Rovers North has a couple of Whitworth
sets listed for about $50.00 as I recall.  Has anyone bought them?  How is
the quality?

> The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break
> to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique
> will save your axels. 

Good analogy.  Even makes sense :)  I have *no* off-road driving experience
(well, very mild cases excepted).  What would constitute good "axle saving"
off road technique?

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 41


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 21 05:40:32 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: B.A
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 11:35:33 GMT

Mark,
B.A stands for British Association,of what I havent a clue(try rec.
crafts.metalworking).It is,I think,metric pitch,and Whit thread form.
It is much used in Model Engineering over here,which is how I came across
it.The odd numbers were used in mechanical connections (5BA is 1/8" for
instance,7BA=3/32"etc)The bigger the number,the smaller the thread.
Even numbers were used for electrical work.They are a useful set,much
more so than the metric mess they are trying to fob us off with these
days,but on the whole your thread systems are,I think,the best in the
world.Like you can screwcut almost any one with a 4TPI leadscrew and
just drop the halfnuts in anywhere.Great!Dont let them take it away
from you:-)
Cheers
Mike Rooth (Violently anti-metric)



Message No 42


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 11:00:18 1992
Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Lightweight?
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:56:41 GMT

TeriAnn,
I must admit to being a bit curious about your comment to Dixon
about the Land Rover being light for it's size.I take your point
about the back axle etc,but I wonder what weight you would consider
normal for a vehicle this size?Over here 1.5 tons is quite a heavy
lump (nearer 2T for a 109").Plus a rated towing capacity of 3T
(3.3 short tons).Please note,this is NOT a critical comment in any
way,I am just interested.
Mike Rooth



Message No 43


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 11:50:43 1992
Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Subject: Junkyard Rovings
To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:46:54 CST

Still continuing my quest for junkyard Land Rovers, I have been calling two
or three more junkyards every morning before going to work.  So far (out of
quite a few pages in the phone book) I've called almost four dozen.  I'm
getting down to the smaller yards now.

This morning I found my first Land Rover related part.

Unfortunately, it was a Land Rover six cylinder engine.  Figures.  :(

Mark
mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com



Message No 44


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 13:23:35 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:17:05 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  Lightweight?

Mike,
The Land Rover's body is mostly aluminium, the transmission, clutch housing,
and transfer case housing is also aluminium.  Imagine something Japanese about
the size of an 88, with all steel construction.

I have to anchor my 109 every time I have to winch someone out to keep them 
from dragging me in.

Think of a Land Rover with all steel body, transmission & transfer case.
That would be heavy.  At least until enough steel rusted away.

TeriAnn



Message No 45


From shute!cak@parc.xerox.com Tue Dec 22 13:43:03 1992
To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Subject: Re: Thanks for that tip! 
In-Reply-To: mvgrie's message of Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:30:48 -0800.
             <9212190030.AA28349@shute.monsanto.com> 
Date: 	Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:42:21 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

Moss Motors sells a set of Whitworth combination wrenches for about
$20. I don't currently have cars with Whitworth parts, but this was
cheap enough to buy and toss into my toolkit.

Name:        Moss Motors
Address:     PO Box MG
             7200 Hollister Avenus
             Goleta, CA 93116
Phone:       (800) 322-6985 ca only
             (800) 235-6954 Outside CA

I also have the following noted as suppliers of Whitworth tools, but
don't have experience with any of them. The should be able to provide
something less expensive than Snap-On.

Name:        British Tool Company
Address:     891 Houseman NE
             Grand Rapids MI 49503
Phone:       (616) 458-9768

Name:        Rex Lewis
Company:     Lewis Restorations
Address:     P.O. Box 127
             Lompoc, CA 93438

Name:        O'Connor Classic
Address:     2569 Scott Blvd.
             Santa Clara, CA 95050
Phone:       (408) 727-0430

Name:        Scottish Imports Ltd
Address:     P.O. Box 549
             150 Airport Drive, Unit 6
             Westminster, Maryland 21157
Phone:       (800)-762-5134



Message No 46


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 13:47:12 1992
Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com>
To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com>
Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner)
Subject: Re: Thanks for that tip! 
In-Reply-To: mvgrie's message of Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:30:48 -0800.
             <9212190030.AA28349@shute.monsanto.com> 
Date: 	Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:42:21 PST
Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com>
From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com>

Moss Motors sells a set of Whitworth combination wrenches for about
$20. I don't currently have cars with Whitworth parts, but this was
cheap enough to buy and toss into my toolkit.

Name:        Moss Motors
Address:     PO Box MG
             7200 Hollister Avenus
             Goleta, CA 93116
Phone:       (800) 322-6985 ca only
             (800) 235-6954 Outside CA

I also have the following noted as suppliers of Whitworth tools, but
don't have experience with any of them. The should be able to provide
something less expensive than Snap-On.

Name:        British Tool Company
Address:     891 Houseman NE
             Grand Rapids MI 49503
Phone:       (616) 458-9768

Name:        Rex Lewis
Company:     Lewis Restorations
Address:     P.O. Box 127
             Lompoc, CA 93438

Name:        O'Connor Classic
Address:     2569 Scott Blvd.
             Santa Clara, CA 95050
Phone:       (408) 727-0430

Name:        Scottish Imports Ltd
Address:     P.O. Box 549
             150 Airport Drive, Unit 6
             Westminster, Maryland 21157
Phone:       (800)-762-5134



Message No 47


From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 23 12:27:50 1992
Return-Path: <growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 10:23:00 PST
From: growl@vis.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell)
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com
Subject: Re:  Lightweight?
Content-Length: 282

Rovers,

So... which weighs more a pound of aluminum or a pound of Suzuki? My '64 88" station wagon
dressed for a week trip off-road (Air-Camping tent, 1/2 roof rack with 4 full jerry cans)
tips the scales at over 4500 lbs. Thats before stopping for beer and ice.

Regards, Bill G.


Onward to 1993

Back to Nov 1992

Posted text Copyright 1990-2011 the original author or Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.
Photos & text Copyright 1990-2011Bill Caloccia, All rights reserved.
Page Created: 13 jan 1997
All trademarks are undoubtedly owned by somebody else.