From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 2 10:07:30 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Land Rover purchase To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 15:58:34 GMT Grettir, I dont know what sort of prices you would expect to pay in the U.S, so cant comment on that aspect.The 88" sounds pretty duff,chassis corrosion can be repaired,but if the U.S is anything like the U.K it is a tedious business,and expensive,too.I speak from recent harrowing experience,here,having*just* got my 88" through its MOT test and taxed it with 20 minutes to spare:-)Fortunately a friend did the welding,so it wasnt expensive. I suggest you check the steel parts of the 109",chassis,bulkhead, door frames etc for rot.It should run OK in all gears,and in two and four wheel drive.Steering shouldnt wander too much either. The 88" will be of limited use for spares,since if the engine *and* the chassis are duff,you are left with some running gear (not brakes) gearbox,and odds and ends.I have found the brakes easy enough to service. As for reliability in daily use,it obviously depends on the mileage.I use mine every day,but only do about 15 miles a day.A friend used his daily on a 30 mile round trip and his was OK.I would suggest that they are better when used regularly than every now and then. Fuel consumption from 14 to 18 to the gallon,Imperial,leaded fuel. Does that help at all? All the best, Mike Rooth (1970 88" diesel,now road legal)
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 2 11:10:52 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 92 09:02:06 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: grettir%pension@wicat.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Advice on purchasing Land Rovers. $4.5K for a 109 in OK driver condition is a reasonable price. This assumes the body panels are mostly straight. I do not know where you are at but judging from the condition of the 88, i would check the 109's frame and firewall closely. Both are replacable but a lot of work & expensive. Replacing either almost always leads to a sever attack of shifitter's disease where you end up replacing everything that is not perfect because you have it appart anyhow and it wouldnot make sense to put a badly worn part into the car. A land Rover in very good mechanical condition withoutcrystalized axles is VERY dependable, but the petrol milage is not all that good. Mine gets about 15 to 18 miles per gallon. I went for 4 years with my 109 as my only commute car. I was putting about 70 miles per week day on it. If you buy them, I recommend Rovers North for parts & use only DOT4 brake fluid. TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 7 11:31:24 1992 Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Blue soft top, want it GREEN!, how? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 92 17:26:57 GMT Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Hi Landy.people, having sorted out much of the mechanical stuff with helpful comments from this list, I've now made it to the cosmetics. Yes, LR's do have cosmetics. My Lightweight is painted a lurid shade of two-tone gloss blue with white stripes. Obviously I want to change it! I intend to spray with Nato Green with a matt finish, but this would leave me with a blue canvas soft top. Any ideas on how I can dye the soft top green (permanently, no water colours please!)? Cheers, Steve. (V8 Lightweight)
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 7 16:35:59 1992 Return-Path: <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 17:31:39 -0500 From: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Painting... Speaking of paint (on which subject I will learn a great deal I suspect since my rover is about three shades of orange and two shades of limestone) does anyone have any reccommendations for painting drivetrain components? I have wirewheeled my rover's swivel ball housings, trackrods, axel housings, and various brackets/hangers, then applied naval jelly to remove microscopic rust. but I don't have any clue what to prime and paint them with. (btw, they look great! Nice grey metal...) The manual says something about chasis black, but I haven't located anything by that name that comes in spraycans (I don't have a compressor suitable for painting) and this can't wait since Ill be blasted if I'm going to just put this stuff back on and drive through a michigan winter... (I painted my brake drums with manifold paint (yeah, I know that it reduces the heat dissapation performance, but I don't do camel trophies in my landie...)) Any suggestions would be most welcome (horror anecdotes about rubberized undercoating welcome also) --chris
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 7 17:28:53 1992 Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com> To: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Painting... In-Reply-To: barbeau's message of Mon, 07 Dec 92 14:31:39 -0800. <199212072231.AA24717@io.eecs.umich.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1992 15:24:10 PST Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com> From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> Eastwood sells "proper chassis black", which they claim is the proper shade of semigloss for everyone's factory chassis black. I've never tried it. I've had good luck with a spray epoxy called Zynolite. It's a rust preventative paint, quite durable, apparently has just enough elasticity to absorb stone hits rather than chipping. It's sometimes hard to fine; chain hardware stores, in particular, seem not to carry it (but carry Rustoleum instead). Call around, you'll like it if you can find it. The Eastwood stuff may be good, too. Their catalog's fun, if nothing else. Name: Eastwood Company Address: 580 Lancaster Avenue Box 296 Malvern, PA 19355 Phone: (800) 345-1178
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 04:21:21 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Painting To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 10:16:49 GMT 'Morning All, Chris,do you *really* mean that you have wire brushed your swivel housing ball? 'Cos if so,I've a nasty feeling you shouldnt have.After all it *is* supposed to be smooth chrome,so the seal will work.Be interesting to see if a smooth painted surface retains the housing oil, though,(much cheaper than a)A new housing,or b)Having them re-chromed.) I recently painted my rear cross member with engine enamel,brushed on, and it seems to be the only paint that will stay put.Might do for your axle casings etc.if you can get it in the States.As for the chassis,there is an American two pack rust proofing paint called Belzona(very pricey over here,I got given some)which I have used on my chassis with some success. Trouble is,the chassis rusts from the inside out. Damn!Got to work,more later. Cheers Mike Rooth
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 05:55:44 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Painting To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 11:52:25 GMT To continue:-) I found that nearly all the welding needed for the MOT this year was rust from the inside of the chassis.The exception was the centre PTO cross-member,which still had black paint on the inside,but had been undersealed on the outside.Usual problem.Loose underseal,water underneath, death.So now I use Waxoyl,which is a wax with a rustproofer in it which is sprayed on using the pumped up contianer supplied for the job.The spray incorporates an air pump to pressurise the can(and a safety valve,for obvious reasons:-))This is sprayed on both outside *and* inside,either via whatever holes are already drilled in the chassis,or via ones you drill yourselfand seal with a rubber grommet after.I dont think it is available in the States, but there must be something similar,surely? Steve,I was given a gallon of NATO Green,by an ex soldier.The can read somethinglike "Paint brushing green,matt finish,IRR".I brushed it on,two coats,looked nice,but had problems.I found that if rubbed,or scratched it went black,and it was a royal SOD to keep clean.Like you had to scrub the mud off:-( I think the black may have something to do with the IRR,which I was informed stood for "Infra Red Reflective",but I have a sneaking idea that should be Refractive.Wonder what it does to Police radar?It is lovely paint to brush on though,*and*the brushes clean in White Spirit.I asked about how the army keep it clean,and was told "Steam clean and slap another coat on".The old girl is now Deep Bronze Green synthetic gloss,also brushed on.Well,saves masking:-) Incidentally the electric problems have been solved.After the starter motor fell off,necessitating a new one (81 quid exchange..groan,groan),the problem went away.Turned out to be the grotty solenoid connections in the old one. Suppose its an ill wind..... Cheers Mike Rooth
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 07:35:57 1992 Return-Path: <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 08:33:19 -0500 From: Chris Barbeau <barbeau@eecs.umich.edu> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Paint... Chris K: Thanks. I just got off the phone ordering the Eastwood catalog, so we'll see what they have to offer. Mike R: Heavens, I thought that I said swivel ball housing, and not "swivel housing ball" but in any case, rest easy! I did the housing only, and got rechromed balls from Rovers North. (The old ones were in *very* bad shape, though I would have liked to have them redone as opposed to buying a reconditioned set) The frame may rust from the inside, but there is an awful lot of rust on the surface, and here in Michigan, you hedge your bets. I've sprayed the inside of t the frame with Waxoyl. Here's another question. Engine temp seems more than a little low (I haven't changed the thermostat, yet) and I wondered if anyone had actually changed over from the mechanical fan to an electrically driven fan. I have plenty of power after switching to a 180amp alternator, so I thought that this might be workable solution, and really help the engine temp. I don't pull anything like a trailer for more than a couple of miles at a time, and the full time fan is probably more than I need by way of cooling power. Thoughts? thanks again! --chris
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 07:49:45 1992 Return-Path: <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> From: Steve Methley <sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Snippets To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 13:46:04 GMT Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] There have been quite a few mail messages about painting and other subjects flying around. No doubt they got to my site out of order, but here are my comments anyway. 1. Painting the chrome swivel balls can't be good. 2. What's wrong with good old Smooth Hammerite for the chassis, it paints over rust easily and one coat is thick? 3. Running an electric fan is a good idea to prevent overcooling. Apparently it saves 4% of engine power too on a 2.25 LR. I have twin electrics on my V8 which I switch off when crossing rivers to stop the fan blades breaking. (If you have the engine driven fan it's wise to slacken the drive belt to allow some slippage for the same reason). Warm-up on cold days is faster too. You do need a good battery to run fans off-road all day tho'. 4. Whoever has the "180amp alternator" must tow it behind in a trailer surely ;-) How big is this beast? 5. Still no-one has told me how to dye my blue canvas top green......... Cheers, Steve.
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 08:40:55 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: More Paint To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 14:37:21 GMT Steve, Hammerite isnt oil or fuel (or much else) proof.I found this out on my rear cross member,which is why I did it with engine enamel.A friend who has an Edwardian American car did his fuel tank with smooth hammerite The tank is more like a large oil drum behind the seats(like a Mercer Raceabout).After a couple of months,and some spilt petrol,bingo!no paint. Definitely off the stuff.And I still dont know how to dye your canvas green:-( Mike
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 09:39:38 1992 Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com> To: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Painting In-Reply-To: M.J.Rooth's message of Tue, 08 Dec 92 02:16:49 -0800. <9212081016.AA28372@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1992 07:33:53 PST Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com> From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> Chris,do you *really* mean that you have wire brushed your swivel housing ball? No, not at all (I don't even have a rover!). This is suspension arms and such (on Triumphs).
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 8 23:10:12 1992 Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Thanks for the advice... From: pension!grettir@wicat.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Tue, 08 Dec 92 15:09:41 MST Organization: The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 Thanks to Teriann Wakeman, James Edwards, and Mike Rooth for their advice on the purchase of two Land Rovers that I had come across. Based on their suggestions, I gave both LRs a thorough going-over and found that they were both in bad enough condition that they probably wouldn't be worth the salvage. Both had extensive corrosion/rot in the frame, panels, and door frames, as well as mechanical problems that would have probably meant a complete rebuild of the engines and transmissions. Ugh! It's a shame to see two great cars that just haven't been cared for properly. =========================================================================== | grettir@pension.UUCP ..or.. | "Waltzing's for dreamers | | ..!wicat!pension!grettir | And losers in love" | | The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 | - Richard Thompson | ===========================================================================
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 9 05:01:10 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Green Tops To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 10:58:41 GMT Steve, I am told by a lady colleague that there is,or was,available a "dye tablet".She apparently once had occasion to dye a large amount of hessian (in the bath).As it happens the colour was about LR Bronze Green.Enquire at a good old fashioned hardware store.Personally,I think you may have to bleach it first. Dont know how permanent the dye was though. The only other suggestion I have is if you can somehow get in touch with a firm that makes horse rugs.The outdoor rug known as the New Zealand Rug is traditionally canvas,equally is traditionally green.I've got two,one blue,one green,both about LR colour.I realise it is a long shot but who knows? Cheers Mike
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 9 10:51:13 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 08:48:10 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, pension!grettir@wicat.com Subject: Re: Thanks for the advice... You might contact Rovers North (802)899-0032. They always carry a list of Land Rovers for sale. Best luck finding one to fit your needs TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 9 10:57:22 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 08:54:59 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Green Tops Mike, Steve, I think Mike's lady colleague was talking about Ritz dyes. That is the standard dye that is readilly available in stores and it comes in tablet form. You add it to what you want to dye in the washing machine. If you dye something in a machine, do not forget to run the machine empty afterwards to get the residue dye out before laundry goes in. The dye does fade (as does most) with repeated washings. You could always redye it if it looks faded or stained. TeriAnn ex-tie-dye expert now regulated to sanding on TR3s
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 9 14:22:45 1992 Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 20:22:31 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: rovers for sale TeriAnn has recently suggested calling rovers north for their listing of rovers for sale. I recently sent a message suggesting the same (but am unsure of whether or not it made it onto this net). The list is officially updated monthly, but two recent orders I placed with them were returned with two different "November" lists (the second was an expanded version of the first)- so I think it may be updated more often than that. There were some interesting rigs for sale in there (including three forward controls) and the prices ranged from $450 (a basket case??? probably not much worse than what has recently been described as the $4K two-for-one deal) to >$15K. If you are a northeasterner, there was a restored early '70's series IIA '88 in NYC for $10.5K (obo), a "nice looking freshly painted" IIA '88 in CT for $2.5K (in need of frame repair), and another series IIA '88 in the syracuse area for $1500 (also in need of "minor" frame repair). Give 'em a call at 802-879- 0032, buy a coffee mug, parts catalog, and get psyched! r.dushin/nigel hamilton ps there is absolutely no connection between my nigel hamilton ('60 series II '88 hardtop) and that guy who wrote the book (and slammed) the kennedys..... my nigel can't even read!
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 16 14:25:21 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:20:24 CST I thought you would all like to know that I am finally a Land Rover owner! I've only seen four here in St. Louis in the past ten years, and I now own one of them. It is a 1969 Series IIA petrol 88" in mixed condition. On the plus side, the frame is absolutely solid, with only traces of light surface rust in spots. There is no rust-through whatsoever. The cockpit is pretty much stock (I think - not much to compare it to) with the exception of an added ammeter. Body is pretty straight - front is a bit beat up on the fenders and bumper. The odometer shows 69k miles, which I am beginning to suspect might actually be real (ie, not >100k miles). The reasons I am suspecting this is overall frame condition (lots of salt in St. Louis in the winter), and the fact that it still has the original Lucas headlamps. It has been stored inside with no road use since 1986. I got it for an amazingly low price, because of the negatives. They are: previous owner got it in a trade, and never used it and did not know anything about it (other than it was "odd"), the right rear axle is broken, and all the hydraulics are shot. Of course, after not being started in nearly seven years, it doesn't run right at the moment. It is now parked in my garage, waiting resuscitation. I suspect an ignition problem to be the cause of the nonstarting condition - the engine turns freely and everything seems to be in good mechanical condition (the engine compartment wiring is another case entirely - someone did some dissection in there - lots of loose ends right now). I've got my Rovers North catalog, my Haynes manual, and I'm starting to go through the beast figuring out what needs doing. I do have a few questions: 1. The broken right rear axle. Based on what I read in the Rovers North newsletter, this seems to be a not infrequent problem. Not having had to deal with this before, it seems to me that I will have to pull the rear differential in order to remove the broken off stub of the axle from the differential gear, so a new axle can be inserted. Does this type of failure typically injure the differential, or is the diff usually unscathed? Is my method correct for replacing the broken axle? I am wondering because the Rovers North newsletter indicated the wisdom of carrying a spare set of axles with you on trips - which implies to me that removal of the differential may not be *typically* involved (it would seem to be a rather elaborate repair to attempt while off road in the wilderness). Anybody have any experience with broken axles? What sequence of events leads to a broken axle? 2. Are Land Rovers as scarce where you are as they are here? (Those of you in England are luckier in this respect than the rest of the world). I spent some time calling the 40 or so junkyards in the St. Louis area looking for a derelict for some parts, and didn't find anything at all. 3. Anybody have a derelict that they want to sell some parts off of? I need some bits, and I wouldn't mind making some changes, and I wouldn't mind having some spares. I think it wonderful that I can get most everything new through Rovers North. Their pricing strikes me as sort of erratic - some things are amazingly cheap, others are reasonable, and others are astoundingly expensive. I guess I've been spoiled by junkyard scrounging for easily obtainable stuff. Needs: front grille "Land Rover" aluminum badge; Zenith carb throttle to accelerator lever link; right rear axle; front bumper; rear window metal slide lock (I don't know what the heck to call it - it fits into a hole in the glass and attaches to the window slide rail); rear window metal edge strip (fits on the window glass itself); spare 15" wheel; ignition key switch; battery tie down; front parking light lenses; 4" amber turn signal lenses; engine hand crank; original equipment toolset; original equipment jack; other original equipment (don't know what was normally supplied). Big desires: Fairey overdrive unit; auxiliary fuel tank; winch; rear pto driveshaft and etc; safari roof; canvas top frame pieces. 4. Any way to verify the build date of my Land Rover, say from the chassis number, or engine serial number? The title I got says 1969, but there is actually some room for doubt on this (though it seems reasonable given the configuration of the vehicle). 5. The Rovers North catalog often states that various suffixes are needed to ascertain the correct part number. Anyone know where these code letters all are? I presume they are stamped in various arcane places on the transmission, etc. Well, that's enough for now. Suffice to say I am very excited to finally have a Land Rover, and I am looking forward to getting to work on my beast in the near future (probably not till after the first of the year as time becomes available (finally!)). Mark Grieshaber mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com ps. Special thanks to Mike Rooth for teaching me how to drive a Land Rover via email! Thanks Mike! I'll probably need a refresher by the time I get this one drivable!
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 16 18:06:22 1992 Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 00:07:53 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: rear axle Mark- congrads on your new purchase......sounds like you've got the fever now! you asked: >1. The broken right rear axle. Based on what I read in the Rovers North newsletter, this seems to be a not infrequent problem. Not having had to deal with this before, it seems to me that I will have to pull the rear differential in order to remove the broken off stub of the axle from the differential gear, so a new axle can be inserted. Does this type of failure typically injure the differential, or is the diff usually unscathed? Is my method correct for replacing the broken axle? I am wondering because the Rovers North newsletter indicated the wisdom of carrying a spare set of axles with you on trips - which implies to me that removal of the differential may not be *typically* involved (it would seem to be a rather elaborate repair to attempt while off road in the wilderness). Anybody have any experience with broken axles? What sequence of events leads to a broken axle? A few summers ago I broke my left side rear axle while raking hay in a field full of woodchuck holes. I also needed a brake job and hub seal replacement at the same time, so stripped off both rear hubs entirely. I don't believe that this is necessary, however, and you should be able to remove your axle without even removing your roadwheel. Just remove the six bolts on your hub, remove the nut securing the axle, and it should slide right out. As for the other end (the broken piece), however, you are right in assuming that you' will have to remove the differential. Just unbolt the drive shaft and the ten or so bolts that hold the diff in place and it should come right out.... this assumes, of course, that you have also removed the other axle, not to mention draining out the oioil. Mine broke right near the spline that fits into the diff. I fingered it out, cleaned out the casing, and bolted her back together. It was not a difficult job. you also ask: >2. Are Land Rovers as scarce where you are as they are here? (Those of you in England are luckier in this respect than the rest of the world). I spent some time calling the 40 or so junkyards in the St. Louis area looking for a derelict for some parts, and didn't find anything at all. In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family. I suspect that this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the road every day. I reflected with my brother on this subject just the other night and came to the conclusion that the rate of return to the highway now exceeds the rate of decay in fields and lots across america. I thank rover- heads all over and places like rovers north for continued supply of parts and accessories (not to mention the deals they-RN-offer for resto-projects and the like.....up to 20% of your parts purchases can go to cash credit for a future expense at RN-not a bad deal at all). you also also ask: 4. Any way to verify the build date of my Land Rover, say from the chassis number, or engine serial number? The title I got says 1969, but there is actually some room for doubt on this (though it seems reasonable given the configuration of the vehicle). I have an old factory manual (circa '62 or so) that lists serial numbers with approximate dates of manufacture. I am not sure if this was continued in later issues. There are also several books on rovers and rover history, and I would not be surprised if a detailed accounting appears in some of them. Anyone out there got a copy?? Hurry up and get that thing on the road! r.dushin/nige, my '60 '88.
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 06:35:58 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: New Owner To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:34:04 GMT Congratulations Mark! Sounds like a good buy.Welcome to the nuthouse. Do you *know* the chassis number? My 88" 1970 has the suffix letter J. Plate is attached to the bulkhead,inside the cab,and also tells you how to work low box etc.At least home market stuff did,maybe export was different. Cheers Mike Rooth.
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:44:16 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Re: rear axle To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:40:51 CST > Mark- > congrads on your new purchase......sounds like you've got the fever now! Thanks! I've had the fever for quite a long time, just had no way of doing anything about it till now! > that this is necessary, however, and you should be able to remove your axle > without even removing your roadwheel. Just remove the six bolts on your > hub, remove the nut securing the axle, and it should slide right out. As for > the other end (the broken piece), however, you are right in assuming that you' > will have to remove the differential. Just unbolt the drive shaft and the > ten or so bolts that hold the diff in place and it should come right out.... > this assumes, of course, that you have also removed the other axle, not to > mention draining out the oioil. Mine broke right near the spline that fits > into the diff. I fingered it out, cleaned out the casing, and bolted her > back together. It was not a difficult job. Yup, I've already pulled the axle as described, and it broke right at the inside splines too. I'm glad to hear that you had no diff damage, and my concept of what was involved was correct. Doesn't sound so bad a job the way you describe it (thanks for the encouragement). > In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three > Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family. I suspect that > this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the > road every day.
*Where* the heck do you live? From your post, someplace reasonably rural? Perhaps my problem is that there aren't many in an urban environment like St. Louis? > I have an old factory manual (circa '62 or so) that lists serial numbers > with approximate dates of manufacture. I am not sure if this was continued > in later issues. There are also several books on rovers and rover history, > and I would not be surprised if a detailed accounting appears in some of > them. Anyone out there got a copy?? I'm waiting on the two volume service manual set, so maybe it will be in there. Anybody got a book on Land Rovers that may give this information? > Hurry up and get that thing on the road! > r.dushin/nige, my '60 '88. I'm hurrying, I'm hurrying! :) Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:50:42 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Re: New Owner To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:47:03 CST > Congratulations Mark! Sounds like a good buy.Welcome to the nuthouse. Yeah, I'm very pleased. Even though it will be awhile to get the beast running, (no time to work on it right now), I find myself going down to the garage now and then just to enjoy looking at it! > Do you *know* the chassis number? My 88" 1970 has the suffix letter J. > Plate is attached to the bulkhead,inside the cab,and also tells you > how to work low box etc.At least home market stuff did,maybe export > was different. > Cheers > Mike Rooth. Hmm. Ok, yes, mine has that plate with the chassis number. I'll check again when I get home, but I *thought* that the number was all integer digits (no letters). Let me check. If there is a trailing letter, then that letter is the "suffix" Rovers North is referring to? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 17 10:53:12 1992 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:52:54 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Well Mark, I start by sayng congradulations on your new purchase & go from there.. 1.Axles - The amount of damage a broken axle causes depends upon where it breaks and how far you drive before you address it. To remove a rear axle, just remove a ring of boltsthat can be seen around the center of the rear wheel,and pry the round metal piece off. You may need a chissle or some such wedge between the peice you just unbolted and the axle housing to break it loose. The axle itself is attached to the peice by a large nut & will come out with it. Axles break where the splines end on ether the inside or outside splines. If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken them out before you were even able to stop the LR. If the axle breaks on the outboard end and you right away: remove the rear drive shaft; and 2 remove the other rear axle, chances are that when youget a chance to clean out the chips and replace the axles, your diff will be OK. Be very careful to remove all the metal chips. They have ways of moving about and lodging themselves in you ring and pinion. Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and stay away from used axles. In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those times it took out the differintial. I kep replacing one side only and used used axles. The last time, i replaced both with new axles. 2. Purchase the Factory manuals. They are good. 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area. The Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland meet brings in about the same. 3. Hydrolics- If its been sitting all this time, I would recommend replacing all the cylinders including the masters with new ones. this would save you a lot of iffyresult rebuilding. ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID! Look for the blue Castrol brake fluid. Its the most common. Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the air bubbles out without a pressure bleed. The EZ Bleed, makes the job a one person job. 4. I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps. Are yours mounted on the wings or inboard? 5. A used under seat petrol tank can be fitted under the drivers seat. You would need to cut the seat box, and install a filler on the driver's side. Take the stock filler hose, cut it in half and clamp a 4 inch or so length of new exhaust tubing inbetween the halves to lengthen the hose. Works fime, looks factory 6. Almost no on has a rear PTO. The take off for the PTO is also where the overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both. You will find part numbers stamped on the parts. The transission number is stamped on the side near the filler, it memory serves. 7. Keep a close eye on the 90wt to see whats leaking where. This includes: Both diffs, transmission, transfer case and both front axle housings ( outboard ot the swivel balls). It gets very expensive if you run dry, and old seals get brittle and leak. Good luck sorting out your new toy. Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers. He has been working on one that has been storred forever. Take care, TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 10:55:28 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:52:54 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Well Mark, I start by sayng congradulations on your new purchase & go from there.. 1.Axles - The amount of damage a broken axle causes depends upon where it breaks and how far you drive before you address it. To remove a rear axle, just remove a ring of boltsthat can be seen around the center of the rear wheel,and pry the round metal piece off. You may need a chissle or some such wedge between the peice you just unbolted and the axle housing to break it loose. The axle itself is attached to the peice by a large nut & will come out with it. Axles break where the splines end on ether the inside or outside splines. If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken them out before you were even able to stop the LR. If the axle breaks on the outboard end and you right away: remove the rear drive shaft; and 2 remove the other rear axle, chances are that when youget a chance to clean out the chips and replace the axles, your diff will be OK. Be very careful to remove all the metal chips. They have ways of moving about and lodging themselves in you ring and pinion. Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and stay away from used axles. In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those times it took out the differintial. I kep replacing one side only and used used axles. The last time, i replaced both with new axles. 2. Purchase the Factory manuals. They are good. 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area. The Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland meet brings in about the same. 3. Hydrolics- If its been sitting all this time, I would recommend replacing all the cylinders including the masters with new ones. this would save you a lot of iffyresult rebuilding. ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID! Look for the blue Castrol brake fluid. Its the most common. Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the air bubbles out without a pressure bleed. The EZ Bleed, makes the job a one person job. 4. I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps. Are yours mounted on the wings or inboard? 5. A used under seat petrol tank can be fitted under the drivers seat. You would need to cut the seat box, and install a filler on the driver's side. Take the stock filler hose, cut it in half and clamp a 4 inch or so length of new exhaust tubing inbetween the halves to lengthen the hose. Works fime, looks factory 6. Almost no on has a rear PTO. The take off for the PTO is also where the overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both. You will find part numbers stamped on the parts. The transission number is stamped on the side near the filler, it memory serves. 7. Keep a close eye on the 90wt to see whats leaking where. This includes: Both diffs, transmission, transfer case and both front axle housings ( outboard ot the swivel balls). It gets very expensive if you run dry, and old seals get brittle and leak. Good luck sorting out your new toy. Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers. He has been working on one that has been storred forever. Take care, TeriAnn
From shute!growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM Thu Dec 17 11:31:49 1992 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:31:30 PST From: growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Content-Length: 1471 Mark, Welcome to the wonderful and zany world of Rovering. Here is my input on your questions: 1. You will probably have to pull the rear diff. to get the broken piece out. If your lucky a strong magnet on a stick will get it but likley the splines are twisted into the diff. so even out on the bench the job will require a brass drift and a hammer. Don't forget that you must pull the other axel out before you try to pull the diff. Replace both axels since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not that big a job to pull the diff. , I have helped with seveal in the field. *Tip* Your Rover has British nuts and bolts on the axels and trans/transfer assys., so plan on finding the proper tools so you don't screw up all the fasteners. Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but the guy won't have them on his truck. Another possible source is a motorcycle shop that caters to British bikes BSA, Triumph, ect. With a typical Rover broken axel the diff. will be just fine. The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique will save your axels. 2. The is a Land Rover Club, and here in California we have a get together once in awhile. I will send you a membership application if you give me you address. Maybe the parts suppliers will give you the names of Rover ownners near you. Regards, Bill G.
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 11:33:58 1992 Return-Path: <growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:31:30 PST From: growl@vis.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Content-Length: 1471 Mark, Welcome to the wonderful and zany world of Rovering. Here is my input on your questions: 1. You will probably have to pull the rear diff. to get the broken piece out. If your lucky a strong magnet on a stick will get it but likley the splines are twisted into the diff. so even out on the bench the job will require a brass drift and a hammer. Don't forget that you must pull the other axel out before you try to pull the diff. Replace both axels since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not that big a job to pull the diff. , I have helped with seveal in the field. *Tip* Your Rover has British nuts and bolts on the axels and trans/transfer assys., so plan on finding the proper tools so you don't screw up all the fasteners. Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but the guy won't have them on his truck. Another possible source is a motorcycle shop that caters to British bikes BSA, Triumph, ect. With a typical Rover broken axel the diff. will be just fine. The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique will save your axels. 2. The is a Land Rover Club, and here in California we have a get together once in awhile. I will send you a membership application if you give me you address. Maybe the parts suppliers will give you the names of Rover ownners near you. Regards, Bill G.
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 11:49:11 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 11:45:42 CST > If the axle breaks at the inside splines chances are very good that a chunk > of axle has become lodged between the ring and pinon gears and have taken > them out before you were even able to stop the LR. > ... > Axles normally break after an axle has become crystalized and brittle. I > strongly suggest that if you break one, replace both with new axles and > stay away from used axles. > > In the almost 15 years I have had my LR, I have lost 5 axles. Four of those > times it took out the differintial. I kep replacing one side only and used > used axles. The last time, i replaced both with new axles. I'm getting even more interested in seeing what is inside the rear diff after hearing this. What causes crystallization of the axle? Repeated stressing and vibration? Sort of like metal fatigue when you bend it back and forth? > 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area. The > Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland > meet brings in about the same. At the last British Car Show in St. Louis, there was ONE Land Rover (and he showed up late, at that). I've only seen one Land Rover driving on the street. > Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the > air bubbles out without a pressure bleed. The EZ Bleed, makes the job a > one person job. This is obviously a definite personal use reccomendation. That's the kind I value most. Where is a good source for this device? > 4. I think I have a spare grill for a LR with inboard head lamps. Are yours > mounted on the wings or inboard? Mine are mounted in the wings, so the grill is not directly applicable. What I really want is the aluminum "Land Rover" badge that holds the grill on. > 6. Almost no on has a rear PTO. The take off for the PTO is also where the > overdrive fits. You can have one or the other but not both. Now, I knew that, but it fell completely out of my head when I posted the article. :) I would rather have the overdrive, myself. > Take care, > > TeriAnn Thanks for the good advice. I save all these articles and use them to guide my work, so it really helps! Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 12:23:29 1992 Return-Path: <bellas@gamma.tti.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:20:42 PST From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: rear axle In addition to replacing the axles in pairs we were advised (by an old racing friend of mine) to "ice" the axels before installation, it reduces the tendency to crystalize. The procedure is to pack the axles in dry ice for about 24 hours then let them return slowly to room temperature. We did this on the last pair and haven't broken one since. Good Luck. -Pete-
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 12:32:19 1992 Return-Path: <moore@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:58:07 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: EZ Bleed > > > Get yoursel an EZ Bleed kit. It can be extreamly difficult to get all the > > air bubbles out without a pressure bleed. The EZ Bleed, makes the job a > > one person job. > > This is obviously a definite personal use reccomendation. That's the kind > I value most. Where is a good source for this device? > Nisonger has them. 1-800-431-2496. Talk to Steve. Be aware that the recommended pressure for the bleed kit may be too high, use a lower pressure if necessary. Using a higher pressure will definitly find all of the loose fittings in the lines. Works good for the clutch, too. Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA 1961 Land Rover 109 1967 Triumph TR6C
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 17:03:24 1992 Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:04:53 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: hmmmmmm Pete suggests: >In addition to replacing the axles in pairs we were advised (by an old racing friend of mine) to "ice" the axels before installation, it reduces the tendency to crystalize. The procedure is to pack the axles in dry ice for about 24 hours then let them return slowly to room temperature. We did this on the last pair and haven't broken one since. Good Luck. Just what is the reasoning behind this??? Is is sort of an annealing process? and Mark wants...... >What I really want is the aluminum "Land Rover" badge that holds the grill on. last time I checked these were available cheap from Rovers North. Teriann wisely adds: >ONLY USE DOT 4 BRAKE FLUID! Look for the blue Castrol brake fluid. Its the most common. This blue stuff is Castrol "LMA" is it not?? that's what I use. Mark-on another note, I see you are a Monsanto employee. In the event that you are a chemist say "howdy" to Joe Rico for me. thanks. -Russell Dushin
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 17:19:59 1992 Return-Path: <u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 23:21:27 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: dixon? Teriann writes (to Mark): >Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers. He has been working on one that has been storred forever. Long, long ago I use to get hard copies of this net action via a bro (I was not hooked-in at the time) and thoroughly enjoyed the volumes of "Dixon Kenner and the Swamp Beast" that he used to send me. I have not heard of him nor his toy since he retrieved that motor from some dead 109. What is the story, Dixon?? How's she running? If she ain't, then at least tell us how deep the snow is around her axles! r.dushin
From shute!twakeman@apple.com Thu Dec 17 18:52:29 1992 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:52:11 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Mark, it is extreamly difficult to properly bleed the LR hydrolics without a presurized system. There is a tendency for air to get trapped in the master cylinders. If Rovers North does not carry them, try the Roadster Factory @(814)446-4444. they carry them. The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket. They are a soft steel so they twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking. BTW, i have found that metric sockets fit Wintworth bolts. TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Dec 17 18:54:26 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 16:52:11 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: Re2: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! Mark, it is extreamly difficult to properly bleed the LR hydrolics without a presurized system. There is a tendency for air to get trapped in the master cylinders. If Rovers North does not carry them, try the Roadster Factory @(814)446-4444. they carry them. The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket. They are a soft steel so they twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking. BTW, i have found that metric sockets fit Wintworth bolts. TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:23:21 1992 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: rear axle From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:47:14 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> writes: > > In the town I live in (population around 1000) there are at least three > > Rovers other than the three owned by myself and my family. I suspect that > > this may not reflect a national average, but I do see more and more on the > > road every day. >
> *Where* the heck do you live? From your post, someplace reasonably rural? > Perhaps my problem is that there aren't many in an urban environment like > St. Louis? There are about 70 of them in the Ottawa area in all models, including military ones. Rgds, Dixon '64 lwb (still on axle stands (need an engine crane to swap engines...)) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:26:52 1992 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: dixon? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:09:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > Long, long ago I use to get hard copies of this net action via a bro > (I was not hooked-in at the time) and thoroughly enjoyed the volumes > of "Dixon Kenner and the Swamp Beast" that he used to send me. I have > not heard of him nor his toy since he retrieved that motor from some > dead 109. What is the story, Dixon?? How's she running? If she ain't, > then at least tell us how deep the snow is around her axles! Dixon is averaging 70 hours a week at Statistics Canada (lots of deadlines coming up) and dreaming how he is going to build a fancy pulley system among the rafters in his garage to move one very stubborn engine which sits in the way of some *serious* winter driving. There is also the gauntlet laid down by the proud new owner of a Suzuki something who not knowing what a LR is has challenged me to a towing contest. (I figure with the PTO winch I can reel him in slowly like a pathetic fish caught on a line <grin>) Now, my *powerful* 2.25 litre engine can manage 0 - 52 in something like 50-60 seconds. I wonder how much slower it will be with a thousand pounds of scrap tied behind? Some how methinks he will chicken out... BTW, I understand that the pick-up south of Ottawa is still available for a thousand or so dollars. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 00:32:19 1992 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: New Land Rover Owner, Finally! From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:56:22 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec <car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > 2. Purchase the Factory manuals. They are good. Excellent is a better word. They cover things in far more detail than the Haynes could ever do for a real restoration job. Of course, neither could beat the mailing list for some pointers like how much to tighten the lock nuts on the hubs... :-) > 2.5 There are about 15-20 Land Rovers in the Santa Cruz Ca. area. The > Palo Alto all British car meet brings in over 40 Land Rovers. The portland > meet brings in about the same. We invite the Jeep et cetera crowd to the annual swamp challenge. SOmehow they just never seem interested... :-) > Good luck sorting out your new toy. Maybe Dixon can give you some pointers. > He has been working on one that has been storred forever. Ask away... Mine is awaiting the engine transplant still. One has to deal with a loose gravel garage floor, what is left of a Mini six feet in front of the LR... I can say that two of us could lift the replacement engine and get it into position beside the LR (using a solid 2x4, but it is *heavy*) and out of the way for winter Mini storage beside the LR. I would also say that if you are into spending the time to rebuild the hydraulics, you don't have to buy new. Expect to spend a lot of time though... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 10:19:11 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 08:14:27 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: dixon? Dixon, Be careful there. The land Rover is light for its size and looks like it has at least 3X its mass. I think the 4X4 with the best tyres and limited slip diff would win. Before you get into a link frame to frame pull contest think of your rear axles. Install a special set of soft metal (twist but does not break) axles and a limited slip diff. If its a winch to winch contest, make sure you have massive cables, a line out the back tied to a sand anchor and be prepaired to have your lead battery connector melt when the winch is stalled & drawing max current. Men! TeriAnn
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 14:32:07 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Aftermarket Land Rover "soft steel" axles? To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 14:28:41 CST TeriAnn said: > The new axles on my land Rover are aftermarket. They are a soft steel so > they twist without crystalizing. Supposed to be guarrenteed from breaking. Ok, sounds very interesting. The idea is that the (momentary) twisting saves both the axle and the diff by absorbing the (momentary) excessive torsion? What aftermarket sources exist for Land Rover parts? The only parts source I know of is Rovers North. I'd be very interested in investigating these axles, and I have also heard of replacement door tops (side screens) that are all aluminum (no steel frame) (my side screens are just about trash). If anyone has any names, addresses and phone numbers for *any* aftermarket Land Rover stuff, I would be very interested in hearing from you! Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Dec 18 18:33:58 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Thanks for that tip! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 18:30:48 CST Bill G. said: > Replace both axels since if one is broken the other is strained. It's not > that big a job to pull the diff. You know, I am really glad you said that about replacing both axles at the same time. I had not even thought of the strain the *other* axle must have taken at the time the right axle failed. This is a very good point - I will replace both. > Snap-On did have the Whitworth sets last time I checked but the guy won't > have them on his truck. I checked with a friend of mine who has a Snap-On catalog - he's a professional aircraft mechanic, so he buys lots of good tools. Here is what he found listed: 3/16 # WOEX6A 19.95 1BA WOEX70 20.90 (any idea what 1BA and 0BA refer to?) 0BA WOEX80 21.80 1/4 WOEX90 21.80 5/16 WOEX100 24.50 3/8 WOEX110 26.25 7/16 WOEX120 28.50 SET WOEXS707 163.50 A bit rich for my toolbox. I note Rovers North has a couple of Whitworth sets listed for about $50.00 as I recall. Has anyone bought them? How is the quality? > The party line is that Rover axels are mechanical "fuses" that break > to protect the expensive, hard to fix parts. Good off-road driving technique > will save your axels. Good analogy. Even makes sense :) I have *no* off-road driving experience (well, very mild cases excepted). What would constitute good "axle saving" off road technique? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Dec 21 05:40:32 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: B.A To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 11:35:33 GMT Mark, B.A stands for British Association,of what I havent a clue(try rec. crafts.metalworking).It is,I think,metric pitch,and Whit thread form. It is much used in Model Engineering over here,which is how I came across it.The odd numbers were used in mechanical connections (5BA is 1/8" for instance,7BA=3/32"etc)The bigger the number,the smaller the thread. Even numbers were used for electrical work.They are a useful set,much more so than the metric mess they are trying to fob us off with these days,but on the whole your thread systems are,I think,the best in the world.Like you can screwcut almost any one with a 4TPI leadscrew and just drop the halfnuts in anywhere.Great!Dont let them take it away from you:-) Cheers Mike Rooth (Violently anti-metric)
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 11:00:18 1992 Return-Path: <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth <M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk> Subject: Lightweight? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:56:41 GMT TeriAnn, I must admit to being a bit curious about your comment to Dixon about the Land Rover being light for it's size.I take your point about the back axle etc,but I wonder what weight you would consider normal for a vehicle this size?Over here 1.5 tons is quite a heavy lump (nearer 2T for a 109").Plus a rated towing capacity of 3T (3.3 short tons).Please note,this is NOT a critical comment in any way,I am just interested. Mike Rooth
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 11:50:43 1992 Return-Path: <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> From: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Subject: Junkyard Rovings To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:46:54 CST Still continuing my quest for junkyard Land Rovers, I have been calling two or three more junkyards every morning before going to work. So far (out of quite a few pages in the phone book) I've called almost four dozen. I'm getting down to the smaller yards now. This morning I found my first Land Rover related part. Unfortunately, it was a Land Rover six cylinder engine. Figures. :( Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 13:23:35 1992 Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 11:17:05 -0800 From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com> To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Lightweight? Mike, The Land Rover's body is mostly aluminium, the transmission, clutch housing, and transfer case housing is also aluminium. Imagine something Japanese about the size of an 88, with all steel construction. I have to anchor my 109 every time I have to winch someone out to keep them from dragging me in. Think of a Land Rover with all steel body, transmission & transfer case. That would be heavy. At least until enough steel rusted away. TeriAnn
From shute!cak@parc.xerox.com Tue Dec 22 13:43:03 1992 To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Subject: Re: Thanks for that tip! In-Reply-To: mvgrie's message of Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:30:48 -0800. <9212190030.AA28349@shute.monsanto.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:42:21 PST Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com> From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> Moss Motors sells a set of Whitworth combination wrenches for about $20. I don't currently have cars with Whitworth parts, but this was cheap enough to buy and toss into my toolkit. Name: Moss Motors Address: PO Box MG 7200 Hollister Avenus Goleta, CA 93116 Phone: (800) 322-6985 ca only (800) 235-6954 Outside CA I also have the following noted as suppliers of Whitworth tools, but don't have experience with any of them. The should be able to provide something less expensive than Snap-On. Name: British Tool Company Address: 891 Houseman NE Grand Rapids MI 49503 Phone: (616) 458-9768 Name: Rex Lewis Company: Lewis Restorations Address: P.O. Box 127 Lompoc, CA 93438 Name: O'Connor Classic Address: 2569 Scott Blvd. Santa Clara, CA 95050 Phone: (408) 727-0430 Name: Scottish Imports Ltd Address: P.O. Box 549 150 Airport Drive, Unit 6 Westminster, Maryland 21157 Phone: (800)-762-5134
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Dec 22 13:47:12 1992 Return-Path: <cak@parc.xerox.com> To: Mark V Grieshaber <mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com> Cc: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Subject: Re: Thanks for that tip! In-Reply-To: mvgrie's message of Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:30:48 -0800. <9212190030.AA28349@shute.monsanto.com> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 11:42:21 PST Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev <cak@parc.xerox.com> From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" <cak@parc.xerox.com> Moss Motors sells a set of Whitworth combination wrenches for about $20. I don't currently have cars with Whitworth parts, but this was cheap enough to buy and toss into my toolkit. Name: Moss Motors Address: PO Box MG 7200 Hollister Avenus Goleta, CA 93116 Phone: (800) 322-6985 ca only (800) 235-6954 Outside CA I also have the following noted as suppliers of Whitworth tools, but don't have experience with any of them. The should be able to provide something less expensive than Snap-On. Name: British Tool Company Address: 891 Houseman NE Grand Rapids MI 49503 Phone: (616) 458-9768 Name: Rex Lewis Company: Lewis Restorations Address: P.O. Box 127 Lompoc, CA 93438 Name: O'Connor Classic Address: 2569 Scott Blvd. Santa Clara, CA 95050 Phone: (408) 727-0430 Name: Scottish Imports Ltd Address: P.O. Box 549 150 Airport Drive, Unit 6 Westminster, Maryland 21157 Phone: (800)-762-5134
From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Dec 23 12:27:50 1992 Return-Path: <growl@vis.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 10:23:00 PST From: growl@vis.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Lightweight? Content-Length: 282 Rovers, So... which weighs more a pound of aluminum or a pound of Suzuki? My '64 88" station wagon dressed for a week trip off-road (Air-Camping tent, 1/2 roof rack with 4 full jerry cans) tips the scales at over 4500 lbs. Thats before stopping for beer and ice. Regards, Bill G.
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