From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 09:18:56 1994 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 1994 09:57:01 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: BAe Woes Status: RO I've always thought that there had to be another reason why British Aerospace sold off Rover, other than the corporate line "to concentrate on core defense business." (BAe's US headquarters near Dulles Airport with over a quarter of a million square feet of office and R&D space is for sale, too). Well, perhaps this is it...BAe's equivalent of Lucas torpedos that try to fly. For our European members and those down under, let me bring you up to speed. The city of Denver, Colorado is building a giant new airport to replace 65 year old Stapleton Airport which has become hemmed-in by urban development; the new one, 20 miles east of downtown, will be the hub for United and Continental airlines. Initially due to open last October, then December, later postponed to March, now May, no one really knows when it will open. Some say that DIA (Denver International Airport) should stand for Due In August or Done In Awhile. Maybe DOA is more appropriate. With an overall price tag of 3.2 billion dollars, interest on the loans is accruing at the prodigious rate of a million dollars a day. The airport is huge: it covers 53 square miles, has five runways and three parallel concourses and designed to handle more than 3 million passengers a year. As the passenger terminals are up to a mile apart, the entire airport has been constructed around a $200 million automated baggage handling system...designed and built by BAe. To be polite, it doesn't work. Because of the distances involved, not ot mention the winter weather, the tug and cart approach used at other airports won't work. Then again, neither does the hi-tech approach: a system of 4,000 individual carts zipping about at up to 22 MPH on 21 miles of steel track all controlled by 100 computers working on 400 radio frequencies trying to deliver 1,400 bags a minute to 20 airlines. Can you see a potential software problem here? Is the tern SNAFU totally appropriate? (Some feel that BAE should stand for "bags are everywhere.") As there is no fall-back or alternative, the (completed) airport won't open until the system works. Considering the size of the contract, it would not be unreasonable to expect a penalty clause of a quarter of a million dollars a day. So maybe BAe had to sell Rover to settle a few bills. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 09:29:53 1994 From: Dan Chayes Subject: fuel level sender unit To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 10:19:40 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO Hi - 1) Thanks to those of you who replyed to the question of oil distribution problems with the rocker arm - all seems to be working well. The rover is back on the road with all the proper tags, emission documents, stickers etc. 2) The gas gague was not working so i removed the sender unit and checked it with an ohm meter. I was working erratically so i dissambled the unit and discoved that the wires upon which the "wiper" arm moves were broken in several places. I looks like time for a replacement. Does any one know a good source (RN price $80) for this part? Is this unit a "standard" lucas? part and does anyone have the cross referance number. 3) Does anybody know the source for the special kit that turns an 88 into a 109? Seriously, i've been thinking of doing a little touring into northeastern canada ( labrador and newfoundland ) and it seems that perhapse i would be better off with a 109 station wagon with a tropical roof. I found a '61 series IIa in florida, "no rust", new 2.25l petrol engine. The owner is asking $8k. I could sell my '74 88 series III Any suggestions ? Any advice of roadtrips to labrador and newfoundland from the northern members of this list ? Any body been there ? 4) the other day at the gas station what is that ? It looks like a little hummer. sure kid what ever you say. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- dan the landrover owners list dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil where people who can't spell feel at home From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 10:31:40 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 11:22:52 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: dieseling experiment Status: RO In my never-ending (previously-posted-about) quest to end dieseling, I randomly decided to change from using the lowest octane fuel I could find, to something more "premium." After about 3 weeks of this regimen, my rover seems to have ceased dieseling entirely. I am not sure it's worth the extra $50/year in fuel costs, but at least I have a better handle on the problem. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 12:07:47 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 9:53:15 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Michele Bertrand" at May 31, 94 5:50 pm Status: RO How about afterglow... Russ > > Well, well, I think Rudolph deserves a new name. And yhis is why: I was > driving Rudolph last week and, trying out the fourth gear, I hit a major > bump at speed, causing the whole vehicle to rattle and shake. Up to now, > there is nothing unusual, but wait! The impact was strong enough to move > aside the bracket that was holding the ammeter (non-genuine), causing one > of the two wires to touch the ammeter's casing. And yes, you can imagine > what happened: FIRE!! I had just the time to pull aside, get the fire > extinguisher off of its bracket and try to kill the flames through holes > in the firewall, from the cab and the engine compartment. Oh well, > unplugged the battery, pushed the thing back in the garage and I didn't > have time to change the burnt wires and blowned up ammeter since.... > > So, any ideas for a new name or should it remain Rudolph? > How about Afterburner, Fried White Land Rover, British Toaster, Four > Wheel Drive Barbecue or even Lucas Shiskabab? > > I'll be waiting for your suggestions and your good laughs while I'll be > putting it back on the road, after refilling my fire extinguisher. By the > way, we all should have one in our vehicle. It does reduce the damages > when used promptly. > > Michel Bertrand and "Well-done Rudolph", Ottawa, Ontario, Canada > > "No, Mom, those fumes and flames were not factory options..." > > > -- > Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 18:05:29 1994 X-Msmail-Message-Id: 1B10B3E8 X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 1B10B3E8 From: Edward Balassanian To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 15:53:16 TZ Subject: land rover dealers in SoCal Status: RO Does anyone know the name/number of a rover dealer in southern cal. I hear their prices are lower than in Seattle for the defender 90. thanks, Edward From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 11:09:31 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 12:01:01 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Michele Bertrand" at May 31, 94 5:50 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Fireside chat snipped > So, any ideas for a new name or should it remain Rudolph? > How about Afterburner, Fried White Land Rover, British Toaster, Four > Wheel Drive Barbecue or even Lucas Shiskabab? How about "Sparky"? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 11:29:37 1994 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 94 12:16:23 EDT From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? Status: RO Why change it? "Rudolph with your nose so bright..." is so apropos now.... :-) monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 12:43:24 1994 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 13:32:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? In-Reply-To: Status: RO Michele asks; > So, any ideas for a new name or should it remain Rudolph? >How about Afterburner, Fried White Land Rover, British Toaster, Four >Wheel Drive Barbecue or even Lucas Shiskabab? How about "Kindle Wagon, or Tinder Box"? Which reminds me to get a Fire extinguisher for mine. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 15:38:31 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 16:27:47 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Mid America Rover/L.E.G.S. Status: RO today i talked to mike hoskins (816-763-3797) about possibly getting on of the modified xfer boxes with a higher high (in lieu of an overdrive). he is listed as the us agent (in the faq) for L.E.G.S. of england which vends this and other conversions. he also does his own work (seemingly both "normal" repair and custom stuff), and sells several other conversions. i've included a copy of my notes from our conversation below. some of this info should probably find its way into the faq. mike was very nice, and liked to talk about rovers and particularly unusual things you could do to them using both english and us parts (in particular he seemed to like chevy/ford engines, brakes, gearboxes, engine parts, etc). anyway... mike hoskins mid america rover 10708 college ave kansas city, MO 64137 the high speed ("hyspeed")case is a series one case (the ser i had a smaller diameter intermediate shaft and bearing, allowing them to offset it and weld on some gears). gives $50 for overdrive in trade $150 for old xfer case (not sure if ths is US$ or pounds?) cannot use overdrive with new xfer case 450 pounds + about US$200 shipping as well as taxes, etc need to tighten special nut to 85 lbs (overtighten and you can break your mainshaft)... he will lend tool he made to do this you get a 27-32% gearing increase with this box optimal delivery timimng: you get your new box within about 8 days of him getting your money... but that can get stopped up at the shop in england (they like to do 3 at a time mimimum). also offers a 5-speed conversion (using the LT77 RR gearbox and a 2a xfer case... only need to modify cover, everything else remains stock.. although it is a tight fit.) this costs about $2200. can mate it to most any engine (v6, 2.5, 2.25, etc). has not actually installed this one yet (sounds like a L.E.G.S. product). he talked about a lot of other wacky conversion stuff he is trying to do. chevy drums on the rover (that way you also get an extra parking break... "great for winching").. rebuilds rover heads with chevy bearings, rockers, etc for very low cost... wants to see supplier list from lro... also said he now offers a 1 year warranty instead of a 6 month as presently stated in the faq (i read him his "entry"). he promptly faxed me his (in my opinion confusing) L.E.G.S. price list: (prices in pounds sterling): engines: short long full 3 bearing 2.25 380 680 1080 5 bearing 2.25 480 780 1180 petrol 1380 diesel 2.5 580 930 1480 2.5 turbo 780 1080 1880 plus shipping of from 220 to 310 250 core charge gearboxes: series I,II,IIA 230.75 series III 276.75 plus shipping 210 and 200 core charge export box: 464.75 (transmission alone, all new internal parts) plus 130 shipping, 150 core charge hyspeed xfer case 450.25 (150 core) LT77 5 speed 400.00 (200 core) LT230 xfer case 470.00 (200 core) all prices plus customs/tax From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 18:03:29 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: BAe Woes To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 15:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00792365.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at Jun 1, 94 09:57:01 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1055 Status: RO Sandy Grice's report on Denver International Airport was entertaining, but I think erroneous in key particulars. While the Denver International Airport baggage system certainly resembles Lucas torpedoes, as far as I can tell the designer BAE Automated Systems of Dallas, Texas, is no relation to British Aerospace. And BAe's sale of the Rover Group was announced about two months before the DIA baggage scandal broke. BAE (the Dallas baggage people, not the Brits) has not yet been faulted in the scandal since they are not in control of their own product. The situation (which will probably topple the Denver government) is a complex political one involving many local contractors, and some local incompetence which has not yet been pinpointed. Maybe they should scrap the computers and tracks and use Land Rovers. Myself, I'd drive a thousand miles in my own Rover before I trusted anything at DIA. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 17:13:06 1994 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 16:57:04 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: fuel level sender unit To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406011419.KAA09728@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I don't live in Nfld or in Eastern Canada, but I do live in Manitoba. I have had 8 Land Rovers, and I agree, that for long trips the long wheel base is the way to go. For off road, the 88 is still the champ. I often travel up the Northern ice road system, and the long wheel base is the answer there as well. Our gas is quite expensive, and in Nflnd you will probably pay close to 60 cents per litre. The is about $3.00 per gal. Canadian. An extra fuel tank is necessary as well as emergency road parts and survival kit. There is a nice 109 for sale in Manitoba for $4000 Canadian. That is about .74 cents on the dollar against the U.S. dollar, so you would get one cheap enough to do all kinds of repairs and still have a vehicle less than the $8000. I paid $500 for my 1970 with a bad engine but it now lookks and runs like new and I spent perhaps $2000 on it in total. Our prices are very low on these vehicles. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 17:19:53 1994 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 17:07:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: dieseling experiment To: jory bell Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406011521.AA09565@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi am Dave Place up in Manitoba Canada. I have found two ways to stop the diesel problem in my 8 Land Rovers. The first is the easiest. I use Gasahol for a short period and it cleans out the carbon which is the cause of the problem. The carbon gets red hot and ofter you turn off the engine, if there is any fuel unburned, it fires. The other way is something you can do every 5000 miles or so. Take of the breather pipe and pour a little water into the carb air intake. About a spoon full at a time is sufficient. You had better do this out in the open because you will get a lot of white smoke. It knocks the carbon off the pistons and other parts and stops the run on problem. Dont put so much in you stall the engine or you will have a problem starting the engine. If you are careful, you won't hurt anything, and it will be de-coked as we limeys say. Cheers Dave ham radio VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 17:27:19 1994 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 17:12:23 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: fuel level sender unit To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406011419.KAA09728@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re your sender problem. You need to know the ohm reading of the sender unit and then you can use anything with the same ohms of resistance. Apart from the mounting problem, any sender will work if the guage reads full and empty at each end of the scale. Don't laugh at my spelling, somtimes we Canadians use the english form and it doesn't spell the same way as the American way. I think you spell guage differently. Hi Hi I live up in Selkirk Manitoba about 100 miles north of the American Canadian boarder. I have had eight models from the 88 to the 109. Presently I am running a 1970 Series III with both the inner and outer lights and lots of series II stuff to make it a tougher vehicle. It has both tops, safari rack and winch. It has been restored in loden green and sand and looks like factory new. Bye for now. Dave VE4PN (ham radio) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 07:13:17 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 2 Jun 94 00:01:52 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Red Hot Rover Content-Type: Text Status: RO Michele, I was riding on the Northway to the ABP off road event 2 years ago when the 88 I was a passenger in caught fire. We pulled over in a big hurry as I franticly searched for the fire extinguisher. The driver said there was none and we bailed out as soon as it stopped rolling. And the fire went out. I undid his dash and found one wire cooked (I've forgotten which one). I disconnected and wrapped it and turned the key. No fire. Off we went. I must confess it was a very very exciting experience. Once we got on the off road trail we went off road. Or off the road. Literally - we were very close to the right edge of the road (no special reason) and the road gave way and down we went - thankfully onto a boulder which prevented us from rolling down the side of the hill. Talk about an adrenalin trip. Later after getting pulled out of that situation we nailed a large rock outcrop with the transmission crossmember, tearing it out on one side and flattening it on the other (yup, we were going fast). But the tranny stayed put, amazingly - all the way back to ABP. When we arrived, the owner brought it into the shop where Bob Fischer heated the cross member cherry red, used a hydraulic press to return it to its original box shape, and welded it back in place. Fast. And they did't charge him. That was what prompted me to use Bob to replace my rear cross member. Back to your question. OK, I'll bite. How about "Four by Fahrenheit"? Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com >> Well, well, I think Rudolph deserves a new name. And yhis is why: I was driving Rudolph last week and, trying out the fourth gear, I hit a major bump at speed, causing the whole vehicle to rattle and shake. Up to now, there is nothing unusual, but wait! The impact was strong enough to move aside the bracket that was holding the ammeter (non-genuine), causing one of the two wires to touch the ammeter's casing. And yes, you can imagine what happened: FIRE!! I had just the time to pull aside, get the fire extinguisher off of its bracket and try to kill the flames through holes in the firewall, from the cab and the engine compartment. Oh well, unplugged the battery, pushed the thing back in the garage and I didn't have time to change the burnt wires and blowned up ammeter since.... So, any ideas for a new name or should it remain Rudolph? How about Afterburner, Fried White Land Rover, British Toaster, Four Wheel Drive Barbecue or even Lucas Shiskabab? I'll be waiting for your suggestions and your good laughs while I'll be putting it back on the road, after refilling my fire extinguisher. By the way, we all should have one in our vehicle. It does reduce the damages when used promptly. Michel Bertrand and "Well-done Rudolph", Ottawa, Ontario, Canada >> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 1 22:04:14 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: land rover dealers in SoCal To: edwardb@microsoft.com (Edward Balassanian) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 20:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406012157.AA26909@netmail2.microsoft.com> from "Edward Balassanian" at Jun 1, 94 03:53:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 398 Status: RO < < Does anyone know the name/number of a rover dealer in southern cal. I < hear their prices are lower than in Seattle for the defender 90. < < thanks, < < Edward I don't know about their prices, but you might try Pioneer Center in San Diego. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 06:40:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: forwarded message Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 07:25:05 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO please send list submissions to 'land-rover-owner@team.net' ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Received: from lectroid.sw.stratus.com (lectroid.sw.stratus.com [134.111.10.1]) by tornadic.sw.stratus.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id VAA17135 for ; Tue, 31 May 1994 21:42:36 -0400 From: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (8.6.4/8.6.6) with ESMTP id VAA14457 for ; Tue, 31 May 1994 21:42:35 -0400 Received: from canopus.CC.UManitoba.CA (canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.16.24]) by transfer.stratus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA00424 for ; Tue, 31 May 1994 21:42:33 -0400 Received: from mira.cc.umanitoba.ca by canopus.CC.UManitoba.CA (4.1/25-eef) id AA01422; Tue, 31 May 94 20:42:32 CDT Received: by mira.cc.umanitoba.ca (4.1/25-eef) id AA20942; Tue, 31 May 94 20:42:29 CDT Message-Id: <9406010142.AA20942@mira.cc.umanitoba.ca> Subject: Re: Welcome to the land-rover-owner list !!! To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Tue, 31 May 94 20:42:28 CDT In-Reply-To: <199405311556.LAA12249@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at May 31, 94 11:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Hi Thanks for the welcome. I have had 8 Land Rovers from the long to the short 88 models. At present I have a restored 1970 Ser III with lots of Ser II bits and pieces in it to make it a better vehicle. The trans for example is the Ser IIA with no schyncro. It is loaden green with the sand top and the safari rack. It sports a winch and the interior is black leather. A very nice every day driver. I am a ham radio operator as well with the call VE4PN. Just returned fromRussia where I was with the Red Cross. Worked for your American Red Cross in 1992 on Iniki Hurricane off Hawaii. Only saw one Rover on Hawaii while working there. I will drop a line from time to time as I use the Rover in the North areas here in Canada and some readers might like to know what we do up here. X ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 09:54:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Newfoundland trip From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 08:38:15 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have a good friend who lives in St-John's, studying at Memorial University. He loves the place, the scenery is great but it's cold all year long. Basically, all the roads are rough to ride on, (even downtown) so a land rover seems appropriate. He also told me that there was a great number of Land Rovers over there. Could be because Newfoundland was a British colony until 1948 and there is still a strong british patriotism sense. I know that there is a fairly important club over there. It's name is "Newfoundlandrovers". I had the adress somewhere, I will try to dig it up to add it to the FAQ, if its not there already. Michel Bertrand and burned-nose Rudolph, Ottawa, Ontario -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 09:18:04 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: fuel level sender unit To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 15:06:38 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Jun 1, 94 05:12:23 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 318 Status: RO > somtimes we Canadians use the english form and it doesn't spell the same > way as the American way. I think you spell guage differently. Err...yes...well, I dare say Canadians do spell the English way from time to time - but what that has to do with "guage" since we spell it "gauge" in England...:-) Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 07:27:56 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 1 Jun 94 00:13:39 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Hard Top Removal Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ludovico writes: >> But what will happen to my hardtop? How can I store it? Mike Rooth tells me that I will have great difficulty getting it to seal again. What should I do? Thank you Ludovico >> Ludovico, Seal? Seal? You have a Rover that's water tight? Kidding aside, when I replace my hard top in the fall, I run a bead of silicone caulk from a hardware store between the windscreen and hard top front. It peels off pretty easily in the spring during removal. At least it doesn't leak there. As for storage, I remove mine now in 3 peices, top shell and side peices. It seems to make it a little more manageable, and is much easier to store. Depending on your available space, you may be able to store it inside. If not, at least keep it covered. When storing watch the thick rubber seals at the bottom of the side quarter panels. If you lay the top upright with something (like a block of wood) pressing against the seal, it will deform and let in a nasty draft from that spot when replaced next fall. Have Fun Bill IIA 88 & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com --- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 15:08:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: fuel level sender unit From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 11:04:21 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dan Chayes writes: > 2) The gas gague was not working so i removed the sender unit > looks like time for a replacement. Does any one know a good > source (RN price $80) for this part? Is this unit a "standard" > lucas? part and does anyone have the cross referance number. Positive earth? Probably Craddocks in the UK (Merseyside doesn't have them) though at what price I am not sure. Negative earth would be far cheaper and more available... > 3) Does anybody know the source for the special kit that turns an 88 into a 109 What? Turn an 88 into a 109? Sure, get the kit than includes frame, springs, a bunch of body bits... Why? > Seriously, i've been thinking of doing a little touring into northeastern > canada ( labrador and newfoundland ) and it seems that perhapse > i would be better off with a 109 station wagon with a tropical roof. > I found a '61 series IIa in florida, "no rust", new 2.25l petrol engine. > The owner is asking $8k. I could sell my '74 88 series III > Any suggestions ? Well, the 109 will be worse on gas, won't go as fast, will hold a lot more stuff, is rarer... How many people will be going on this proposed trek? If it is just you and a friend, I would suggest using the 88. You know what is wrong, might go wrong et cetera. It would be a better risk to bring along than somethig untried. > Any advice of roadtrips to labrador and newfoundland from the northern > members of this list ? Any body been there ? Been there. First off, you cannot drive to either of the places. To have to take a ferry to get the Newfoundland and Labrador (there are no roads to Labrodor along the Quebec north shore. Not that many roads in Labrador period. Drop a line to the Newfoundland tourist authority. They will send you a ton of stuff... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 15:07:31 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 11:14:10 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" Why change it? "Rudolph with your nose so bright..." is so apropos > now.... :-) Wouldn't the song start: "Rudolph the roasted reindeer..." :-) Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 13:46:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: land rover dealers in SoCal In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 01 Jun 1994 15:53:16 +0700." <9406012157.AA26909@netmail2.microsoft.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 1994 11:32:09 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO In message <9406012157.AA26909@netmail2.microsoft.com>you write: > Does anyone know the name/number of a rover dealer in southern cal. I > hear their prices are lower than in Seattle for the defender 90. Symes Cadillac-Land Rover 3475 E Colorado Bl Pasadena, CA (818)795-3381 (213)681-5243 I've seen Defender 90s on their lot since they first arrived in the US. I've never dealt with them so I have no idea asto their prices. Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 14:07:05 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Thunder Rover In-Reply-To: Your message of "02 Jun 94 23:54:22 PST." <199406021727.NAA19366@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 11:56:52 PDT Status: RO In message <199406021727.NAA19366@transfer.stratus.com> you write: > The last item I dealt with was drilling the new front bumper for the 88 for > the new D rings my folks brought me from England last summer. Next I have to > decide on a welder to install my new front chassis horns. I'm debating > whether to drive up to Mechanicville (3.5 hours) to have Bob Fischer do the > welding, or try someone locally. The welders that I found around Chatham greatly vary in price and quality. Two years ago I got a Warn winch and mounting plate from RN. I was kinda rushed because I was about to drive out to LA. I found a welding company in Summit and got an estimate. They wanted ~$500 (about 9 hours of labor). This confused me. All they had to do is weld on one piece of steel. A bead on top and a bead on bottom would be ok. Since my bumper is welded on welding some angle bar between the bumper and the frame would be useful. This welder wanted to reweld major chuncks of the frame and add on large amount of metal. Dad and I walked away. Then he found a small welding shop. The job took less than an hour and cost me a whopping $50. This shop was located near the NJ inspection station near Morristown. Unfortunately, I can't remember the street name though. Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 16:11:27 1994 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 16:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: gas in oil? Status: RO Here is a serious question that has arisen in my brain.(since my last oil change) "Is it possible for me to be getting gas in my oil?" My theory begins with the fact that everytime I shut off the ignition, the carb starts to seep gas around the throttle plate cross bar. It seems like quite a bit while I'm standing there looking at it. Now it seeps out the bar obviously, but wouldn't it also be seeping inside the carb. Past the throttle plate, down into the manifold. down the side of the cylinder and winding up in the sump. Maybe not much at a time, but added up over as many times as I shut off the car, it could significantly thin out the oil. To reinforce this theory, when I changed the oil and filter,about three weeks ago. the pressure was the best it ever has been. It stared up at 60 to 80 and stayed around 45 when hot. This lasted about a week and now it seems like I'm running 10w10 when it's hot, like I'm running kerosene instead of oil. The oil on the stick seems thin also. I used 20w50 kendall when I changed it. I've had the pan off and I can't detect any play whatsoever in the bearings. It didn't use any oil during the first two weeks and I just had to put a quart in after a 100 mile run last sunday. Sorry if I'm rambling on about this. Any comments? Oh yea, I don't think the fuel pump is leaking through the diaphragm. Thanks a lot for any thoughts. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 12:40:32 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 2 Jun 94 23:54:22 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Thunder Rover Content-Type: Text Status: RO I was channel surfing over the weekend and flipped on "Thunder in Paradise". The episode was a take off on the Arnold's movie "Predator" with an alien that uses light bending camoflage. Good special effects but not very original. The two main characters are Vietnam vets and one of them keeps having these flashbacks. In one flashback one rescues the other from a POW "camp" and they race from the camp to a dock to escape on a boat. The warden chases them in a Series III 109 regular soft top, which appears to be bullet proof considering the number of rounds fired at it without creating any holes. I was glad to see the Vietnamese using Solihull's finest. I also discovered that an M-16 can fire several hundred rounds without reloading. Project report: Over the weekend I replaced my carb with one I salvaged and rebuilt from ABP's rally parts dump truck last summer. The carb looked pretty good, cleaned up well, and didn't need much planing to mate up the top to bottom halves. The main reason I wanted to replace my current carb was that the mixture screw when turned in fully would still allow the engine to run - and quite richly at that (yes, I had planed the old carb). This has been a problem each year at NJ state inspection, as our emissions tests are pretty strict. I would have to take it to a garage and have it fiddled with to get it through - usually by increasing the idle (max allowed is 1200rpm by state) but on one occasion the mechanic just loosened the brake vacuum hose and slipped a screwdriver in to allow air in. It got me my sticker. The first time I installed the "new" rebuilt carb last fall, I was finally able to adjust the mixture so that it just smoothed out. I was so happy. Until I took it on the road. I stepped on the gas and...blaaa - no power at all. I pulled it apart and checked for anything obvious, tried again and no change. Off it went and into a box. I stripped it again a few weeks later and pulled every jet and plug on the thing and flushed it with carb then brake parts spray. One jet seemed to give up a bit more gunk than the others but I couldn't find anything obvious. Winter closed in and I put it off till now. I wasn't optimistic that the carb would work this time but it worked very well. Mixture is now fully adjustable and it runs great. I'm not certain exactly what the problem was but at least it's gone. I'm actually looking forward to state inspection this year. I also tested the 18ACR alternator that I picked up for $10 at the British car show in Dover last month. It cost $28 for a new rectifier, regulator, and bearings. The brushes had a lot of life left in them so they stayed put. If you can handle a soldering iron and gear/bearing pullers, it's really no sweat. Just be sure to use a heat sink between the solder point and the diodes when installing the rectifier (hemostats work well). The last item I dealt with was drilling the new front bumper for the 88 for the new D rings my folks brought me from England last summer. Next I have to decide on a welder to install my new front chassis horns. I'm debating whether to drive up to Mechanicville (3.5 hours) to have Bob Fischer do the welding, or try someone locally. That't it for now. (Boy, has the net been quiet the last couple of days) Bill Maloney maloney@wingx.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 16:38:05 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Thunder Rover To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 16:27:35 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199406021727.NAA19366@transfer.stratus.com> from "maloney" at Jun 2, 94 11:54:22 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1233 Status: RO maloney was bold enough to point out... >The last item I dealt with was drilling the new front bumper for the 88 for >the new D rings my folks brought me from England last summer. Next I have to >decide on a welder to install my new front chassis horns. I'm debating >whether to drive up to Mechanicville (3.5 hours) to have Bob Fischer do the >welding, or try someone locally. > OK, lets talk about d-rings for awhile. I am getting a shipment -- yes, it *has* left england -- of some used parts from steve parker land rover. Included in the shipment are 6 d-rings. (I like spare parts). I figured one would just put a longer bolt thru the two holes in the front horn that the bumper attaches to. Is this the story. Do I need to drill and put holes in the front bumper, too? Do d-rings get in the way of front bumper extensions, cause I am getting 4 of those, too. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 16:42:59 1994 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 17:36:06 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Nigel update Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO This past weekend was a hoiday (key word) weekend here in the daughterland, but as the sig oth is currently in thesis writing mode I had some free time to put in on daNige. There's more to life (especially during holidays) than bloody knuckle and greasey fingernails, though, so most of you will be unimpressed with the progress (or lack thereof). Saturday morning was spent retrieving my freshly resurfaced flywheel and assorted bits (esp gear oil) needed for the job. The resurfacing job looked just great, but they failed to remove my locator studs and just ground them *both* off. How's about that, Marcus?? (On reassembly, I found that the bolts held it within about 1 mm of any 360 degree direction, and although that 1mm may be critical for balance, having no studs probably isn't any worse than having just one. I did my best to center the clutch on the flywheel before tightening it down just by lifting it ever so slightly and paying close attention to the location at the sides and center....ie I eyeballed it. The RN folks said it would be just fine, and made no attempt to talk me into a $180 SIIa flywheel with three studs.....we'll see how long my crank lasts now). Once the block was secured from above (used a chain around the exhaust manifold since my only other viable option involved the oil filter... it really didn't need to support *that* much weight since the block was partially supported by the front mounts anyway) the sump and rear main bearing cap was removed, and the rear main seal installed quite easily. Flywheel housing cover, starter, flyweeel, and clutch were then put in with no real hassles. I did, however, have considerably more trouble putting in the starter (the"from below and up" method rather than the "from above and down" method) than I had recalled in a previous experience. I began to wonder if I had done that job *before* puttting my new exhaust in (Nigel previously had the thru- the-wing exhaust system) and if I had led you astray with my "Ka-lunk" message of a month or so ago. The job was made much easier by cranking the front wheels all the way to the right (LHD) so that the steering rod between the box and the relay was out of the way. Sunday I only put in an hour or so but did manage to get the tranny back in, practically solo, no less. The sig oth was there to turn the hand crank while the 135lbs of rdushin moved the tranny into position. A well-placed sling about the main tranny case and the rear of the trans- fer case aided in this task. Monday morning was all I had to spare for daNige. Got the handbrake, *new* rear diff, and rear driveshaft installed. Big deal. Did a "dry run" on the new clutch (before the rear prop shaft was in) using light hand brake pressure to check it out. Nige fired right up, first crank, and the new clutch felt swell! No judder, jumping....smooth as glass. Planning on visiting my hubs (to clean out any remaining grit and repack the wheel bearings) before completing the job, and of course, still have to put in the seatbox and floors. Also putting in a *new* front prop shaft, since my old one was siezed *and* the cap stripped so's it cannot be easily disassembled. I did notice one thing during this job that's worth mentioning. About 1.5yrs ago I replaced Nigel's thru-the-wing exhaust with a IIa type, and Nige has seen two winters on eastern salted roads. In *many* places near the new exhaust I have surface rust developing.....the sump, the frame, one of the studs for the starter, etc. Surely, the heat and steam that surround a hot exhaust system in wet/winter/salty conditions are contributing to this enhanced corrosion. Thus, those of you who do still have those funky thru-the-wing exhausts (who have been fortunate enough to have not yet broken your manifolds) may wish to consider keeping them at all costs..... they do tend not to come nearly as close to the frame, especially in places where it easily rots (eg outriggers). cheers, rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 16:55:00 1994 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 17:45:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: miniture Land Rovers... To: LRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO well, gee, folks, this has been a ahrd decision (and the decision of the judge is final of course so no more bribes (altho, John, dinner at The Four Seasons was a nice touch and much nicer than the used motor oil that Russ sent...) it was tempting to send them to Terri Ann for keeping us all in line and to Dixon for the chance to help spread discontent and jealousy in the world. It was also tempting to send them to Mr. Maloney in N.J. because i lived in N.J. once and no one has more of my sympathy but i really wanted him to prove he was more fun than Pee Wee Herman at the movies and that seemed hard to do given the time distance considerations. Mike offered to trade a Desert Shield 109 but that seemed a suspect offer to me since i thought they used 110's. Keith touched my heart with tales of his children's needs but i wasn't at all sure these (obviously) valuable rovers should be entrusted to children; I think Keith should buy his kids new mini rover toys so that in 20 years some other poor spring cleaner can put a note out on the infohighway about old toy trucks. By my count that still leaves the ever prompt and quite blue Jon H., the poetic and persuasive T.F., Spenny, and Ludovico who hit my soft spot with the challenge of bad italian mail (i love mailing odd things... but i digress). so, here are the rules Jon, T.F., Spenny, and Ludovico 1) you agree that the rover you receive via this great LRO mailing list give-a-way will never be sold for fun or profit 2) you agree when (or if) the mini rover you receive has outlived its welcome you will re-donate it into the mail stream (to be joined by Keith's children's contributions at a later date) 3) you agree to not fight on the net about who got what 4) and Jon, you agree to start breathing Now! okay, send your best mailing address(es) to jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu the land rovers will be in the mail as soon as i know where to send them... happy motoring From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 17:25:17 1994 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 17:13:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rudolph renamed? To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am going up to Arnprior to teach at the emergency measures school next week. Is the Ottawa Valley Club doing anything between the Wednesday and the Saturday. I expect I could get away on the Friday night or Saturday if there was something on. Is Napean far from Ottawa? Dave Place umplace@UManitoba.CA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 18:56:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover World, the July edition... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 18:14:19 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO For those tracking when LRO arrives, the July edition of Land ROver World arrived yesterday. Maybe LRW is running a month ahead of schedule, but it makes you really wonder about LRO... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 07:22:29 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LR magazines and italian mail.... From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 01:14:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I still ave not received the May isuue of LRO, but this morning I found in my mailbox the JULY issue of Land Rover World..... Strange things happen with italian mail...:) BTW, in the July issue of LRW there's half a page (including a picture of a meeting) about the Ottawa Valley Land Rover Club. Good work, Dixon (I envy you canadians....).:) Ludo ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 20:58:59 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Thu, 02 Jun 94 21:48:54 EDT Subject: Re: So. Cal LR Dealers Status: RO Edward writes Does anyone know the name/number of a rover dealer in southern cal. The cadillac dealer on Colorado Bvld. in Pasadena sells rovers i can't tell you about price comparisons though From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 21:39:27 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover World, the July edition... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 21:56:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > For those tracking when LRO arrives, the July edition of Land ROver > World arrived yesterday. Maybe LRW is running a month ahead of > schedule, but it makes you really wonder about LRO... No sooner do I write this, then the June issue of LRO comes through the door. I wonder what went wrong with their distribution system -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 21:54:40 1994 Date: 02 Jun 94 22:43:09 EDT From: "Roger L. Sinasohn" <72262.1540@CompuServe.COM> To: Land Rover Owner List Subject: Howdy! Status: RO Still trying to figure all this out, so forgive me if this doesn't end up where it should. I'm hoping this will go to everyone on the list, but who knows? (The Shadow knows.) Well, I'm a relatively new Land Rover owner, but certainly no less fanatical or obsessed than anyone else. I got my first Land Rover about 4 years ago, and currently own a 1959 109" two-door with a full top (although I have a pick-up top and 3/4 canvas as well.) and a 1972 88", also with a full top. I was thinking of putting the pick-up top on the 88", but I was voted down by my brother and girlfriend (who are battling it out over who gets to commandeer the 88"). I also collect miniatures (matchbox, dinky, britains, etc.). I live in San Francisco, California, so Scotty fixes stuff after I muck it up. Made it to the national rally two years ago, but I don't think I'll make it this year. (Unless they reschedule it a week earlier.) What else about me? I guess that's about it. Oh, I have a bed (I call it the "Blevins Bed", since I stole the design from Brad Blevins, editor of the Aluminum Workhorse) and cabinets for the 109" that I built myself (which means they're not very well made, but hey, I tried.). My next project is a desk/filing cabinet sort of thing so I can use it as a mobile office. That and an overhead compartment for a stereo, CB, phone, GPS, etc. (After I win the lottery.) Anyway, that's about it for me. Glad I found out about this! Uncle (who's going to have to get an Internet address because the CompuServe fees are gonna kill me!) Roger From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 23:37:18 1994 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 00:23:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: Land Rover World, the July edition... To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 2 Jun 1994, dixon kenner wrote: > dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > > > For those tracking when LRO arrives, the July edition of Land ROver > > World arrived yesterday. Maybe LRW is running a month ahead of > > schedule, but it makes you really wonder about LRO... > As a Rover admirer and hopefully soon to be owner, I was wondering if anyone could give me more info on this publication, possibly even an order form... Cheers, Steve Swiger From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 01:37:51 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Land Rover World, the July edition... To: swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (Steven Swiger) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 00:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Steven Swiger" at Jun 3, 94 00:23:11 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 695 Status: RO Steve Swiger asks: < As a Rover admirer and hopefully soon to be owner, I was wondering if < anyone could give me more info on this publication Try this: LRW Subscription Dept Hainault Road Little Heath Romford Essex RM6 5NP They accept VISA (which saves on ridiculous bank conversion charges), and the US rate is about $70. I say "try" because I still haven't seen a single issue, and I have written twice. Anybody who gets July before June has no grounds for complaint: at least it's coming. As for LRO... they are unmentionable. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 02:46:30 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Sender: "UncleBrad" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 03 Jun 94 03:37:04 EDT Subject: Land Rover World Status: RO Saw the notes about Land Rover World & noticed that folks are interested in it but aren't having a lot of success getting in touch. I was talking to Tom LaManna in Florida & he gave me a phone number for the outfit. He thinks that this is a company which publishes several magazines & suggested that I call them earlier in their day for some reason. The number he gave me is 081-597-7335. Good luck! Brad Blevins From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 03:27:42 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: gas in oil? To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 02:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at Jun 2, 94 04:57:03 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 422 Status: RO Jon writes: < Here is a serious question that has arisen in my brain.(since my last < oil change) < "Is it possible for me to be getting gas in my oil?" Not according to Gray's Anatomy. But I suppose anything is possible if you're in the habit of changing brain fluid. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 04:02:25 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniature Land Rovers in the male/mail To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu (Jan Hilborn) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 02:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jan Hilborn" at Jun 2, 94 05:45:24 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1065 Status: RO Oh, what indescribable joy To finally get my Norwegian toy. Thanks to gracious Jan, And her masterful plan, I can now gaze on the real McCoy. How do I know I will receive the royal blue one? Because -- The ole Rover that belongs to Mills May suffer all sorts of ills, But unlike Willie, Who goes willy nilly, My Norwegian rubber makes no great spills. And why does Jon the Roving Pouet-Pouet deserve a new Tootsie? Because -- Mr. Humphrey hath a Lucas starter That soundeth more like a farter. And his last lass Lost her li'l ass In his old Rover where it jarred 'er. As for the leftovers-- A challenging Italian male Will always tip the scale. Nota bene, Mr. Spenny! For he knows a female how to regale. What say? I've already broken the rules? I forfeit everything? Oh, well, time to change to dirty old brain fluid, I suppose. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA ( a suitable address for Rover deliveries) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 04:39:32 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Land Rover current cites To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 03:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 761 Status: RO Here's the latest: "Kings of the road" TIME June 6, 1994 p. 57 The article puts the American 4x4 craze in sociological perspective, mentions Rover briefly, and reveals these tidbits: *production of Mercedes G-Wagen will begin in Vance, Alabama in 1997. They will sell for $60,000 (which is half the current import price, if I recall). *"Rover expects to introduce a more luxurious version of the [RR] County in the U.S. early next year." *Chrysler plans to reveal a luxury 4WD in 1998 to compete with the Mercedes and Rovers ($40,000). Articles has photos of the new Chrysler and G-Wagen -- no Rovers. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 06:48:33 1994 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 04:01:02 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Found 1956 Series I 88 for sale Status: RO I found the above land rover in a local car classified paper. It has the caption "1956 Land Rover. Pontiac power, completeley redone. lic 2NDA040 MAKE OFFER". I gave them a call and found out the asking price ws $8,0000 US. After looking at the picture for awhile I thought that this land rover had been in the Aluminum Workhorse. After going through all my issues for the millionth time I found it in the Spring 1991 issue. It was owned and rebuilt by John Johnson. This one was done up to the hilt. I think it was done up mainly as a runabout/ commute car. Has Iron Duke engine, 3.54 diffs, II gearbox, aux gas tank, insulation up the wazoo, and hardtop with vents. It might even have cruise control ( the artical says it likes to run around 70 mph). If you are interested give them a call - Specialty Sales 510-484-22674. Vance Chin Series III 88 thats looking for floor mats+ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 08:27:22 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: LR mags.... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 14:17:36 BST Status: RO It's not necessarily Italian mail,Ludo,I got my LRO a fortnight late. Even then,I'm not sure it was worth waiting for..... LRW,by contrast,is turning into a seriously good magazine,at least this month's is.And we are all in it!Well done,that man Kenner! You'll *never* get published in LRO now though:-) They are getting networked......hmmm....are they *really* ready for exposure to us wacky lot? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 09:28:56 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Rover's on Fillum To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 15:19:02 BST Status: RO I watched a bit of 633 Squadron last night(again),I *love* the Mosquito.Got fed up after about fifteen minutes because be now I can suss out the models from the lone real Mossy.However, if you look not *all* that carefully you can spot at least one SWB S1,and a 107" pickup.Pre-pre production? Whilst on the subject,I got James Taylor's "Land Rover Story" video out of the local public library last week.Well worth the quid it cost to borrow(well,two quid actually,its overdue).I thought it was well done,but not worth the fifteen quid purchase price.Under a tenner,yes,but not fifteen.Could have done with less Range Rover and Discovery,and more S11,11A&111,especially since there is one in preparation on the Range Rover.Good as a group buy though IMO,say for club viewing. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 07:26:34 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 4 Jun 94 00:06:41 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LRW & D-Rings Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steve wrote: >> As a Rover admirer and hopefully soon to be owner, I was wondering if anyone could give me more info on this publication, possibly even an order form... Cheers, Steve Swiger >> Steve, I just called Land Rover World this morning. After being transferred once I got a very nice woman on the line who said it would be L59. Gulp!!! I replied that I was sorry but I had the subscription for US air listed at L47.20. She asked me to hold for a moment then apologized and said that L47.20 was correct. I gave her my address & credit card # and she said the subscription would begin immediately with the current issue (#5 or 6 I believe). If you have never called the UK before dial 011 44 81 597 7335. Before 7:00am the rates are $.98 first minute and $.60 each additional minute (AT&T). If you call AT&T ahead of time and ask for Reach Out Country for the UK, you'll get 10% off that rate with no initial or monthly charge. The number for Reach Out country is 1-800-523-9675. This is my first experience with LRW. LRO is very good but seems to be moving away from Series II, IIA, III articles toward newer stuff. Also, from what I understand, in the UK an issue is available in the second week of the month prior to the issue date. Unfortunately, we receive ours in the US 6-8 weeks later. And that's paying air shipping. Surface mail is usually quicker than that. Their shipping, in a word, sucks. Sorry, I don't have the rates handy for LRO. I ordered a two year subscription back when the pound was $1.95 and I thought it was going to go higher. Urk! When you get the number (I'm sure someone will post it) you dial 011 (international code) 44 (country code, UK) drop the first zero in the number then dail the next nine digits. Good Luck! ************************************************************************ Ray Wrote: >> OK, lets talk about d-rings for awhile. I am getting a shipment -- yes, it *has* left england -- of some used parts from steve parker land rover. Included in the shipment are 6 d-rings. (I like spare parts). I figured one would just put a longer bolt thru the two holes in the front horn that the bumper attaches to. Is this the story. Do I need to drill and put holes in the front bumper, too? Do d-rings get in the way of front bumper extensions, cause I am getting 4 of those, too. >> Ray, The d-ring kit came with frame bolts that were about 1/2" longer than standard and four additional bolts for the 2 front holes in each of the d-rings. You need to line up the d-ring with the bumper holes already in place and drill the 2 front holes using the d-ring as a template. Be sure to use plenty of lubricant on your drill bit as you are drilling through a fair amount of galvanizing and a weld also. Start with a smaller bit as a guide for the final bit. I don't believe d-ring should not interfere with your overriders. Have fun, Bill Maloney maloney@wings!attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 08:29:00 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 4 Jun 94 01:13:59 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: D-Rings Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray, In my last message I wrote: >> I don't believe d-ring should not interfere with your overriders. >> What I meant was: I don't believe the d-ring will interfere with your overriders. Sometimes I don't have no idea of what I means. Bill Maloney maloney@wings!attmail.com From ccray Fri Jun 3 10:30:41 1994 Subject: Little Lulu's birthday bash... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 10:30:41 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2982 Status: RO Rushed home last night at 5:00 after work. Had received the new(old) winch the prior day and Little Lulu was anxious. Koenig Iron Works Houston, Texas Model 30 (crankshaft driven) Part no. LR55-302 Took off the front bumper and my son and I lifted this beauty (or is it beast) into position. It also mounts via the two bolts on the front horns, so eventually, I will have d-rings, winch, bumper all going thru those holes. The bumper in place was a home-made one attached several years ago by a prior owner, but the winch was patterned for a stock bumper. There is an angle iron in the front that lips over the bumper and 3 holes are to be drilled for bolts. So, I put back on the only stock bumper that I have -- the problem is it has been dented and straightened so many times it has multiple waves going thru it. I must order another, but for now this one will do. The winch looks absolutely marvelous in place. It has a lever that engages the engine drive, a gear lever that allows forward/reverse/neutral and a lever that disengages the spool and lets you freewheel out the line. I had to take off the front dog on the crankshaft damper that the crank fits into. No way from below. Took the winch back off so we could fit a socket extension thru the front hole in the frame. Wouldn't budge. Heat, still no movement. I remember this discussion on LRO some times past -- how did that front crank widget finally get removed that time. So, I left it last night in place, but without the driveshaft attached to the crankshaft. I had the chance to purchase a koenig pto winch in the past, but that setup does not allow you to have the overdrive unit. I think it would allow the winch to have 4 forward gears plus reverse, though. I thought about a modern electric winch, but I am still running the old lucas generator. And serious winching people think you need a second battery. And you have to run the big thick electrical cable thru places that don't have holes. And new heavy duty electric winches are expensive. So, I located this used crankshaft driven oldie-but-goodie. It looks rugged in place, has near-new cable, and puts 150 pounds of mass between me and car in front of me. So, my request to the LRO netters. Does anyone out there have the operating instructions and/or parts diagram for this unit. I would like to get you to xerox it and send it to me for my records. I would reimburse you. I understand I probably can't get parts, but a diagram would be handy if I ever have to go inside for repairs. Am anxious to get the drive installed and go out and do some serious wenching. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 10:41:09 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Little Lulu's birthday bash... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 10:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2981 Status: RO Rushed home last night at 5:00 after work. Had received the new(old) winch the prior day and Little Lulu was anxious. Koenig Iron Works Houston, Texas Model 30 (crankshaft driven) Part no. LR55-302 Took off the front bumper and my son and I lifted this beauty (or is it beast) into position. It also mounts via the two bolts on the front horns, so eventually, I will have d-rings, winch, bumper all going thru those holes. The bumper in place was a home-made one attached several years ago by a prior owner, but the winch was patterned for a stock bumper. There is an angle iron in the front that lips over the bumper and 3 holes are to be drilled for bolts. So, I put back on the only stock bumper that I have -- the problem is it has been dented and straightened so many times it has multiple waves going thru it. I must order another, but for now this one will do. The winch looks absolutely marvelous in place. It has a lever that engages the engine drive, a gear lever that allows forward/reverse/neutral and a lever that disengages the spool and lets you freewheel out the line. I had to take off the front dog on the crankshaft damper that the crank fits into. No way from below. Took the winch back off so we could fit a socket extension thru the front hole in the frame. Wouldn't budge. Heat, still no movement. I remember this discussion on LRO some times past -- how did that front crank widget finally get removed that time. So, I left it last night in place, but without the driveshaft attached to the crankshaft. I had the chance to purchase a koenig pto winch in the past, but that setup does not allow you to have the overdrive unit. I think it would allow the winch to have 4 forward gears plus reverse, though. I thought about a modern electric winch, but I am still running the old lucas generator. And serious winching people think you need a second battery. And you have to run the big thick electrical cable thru places that don't have holes. And new heavy duty electric winches are expensive. So, I located this used crankshaft driven oldie-but-goodie. It looks rugged in place, has near-new cable, and puts 150 pounds of mass between me and car in front of me. So, my request to the LRO netters. Does anyone out there have the operating instructions and/or parts diagram for this unit. I would like to get you to xerox it and send it to me for my records. I would reimburse you. I understand I probably can't get parts, but a diagram would be handy if I ever have to go inside for repairs. Am anxious to get the drive installed and go out and do some serious wenching. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 2 09:57:55 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Birmabright welding From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 08:48:49 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Hi! I have a few questions regarding Birmabright welding. 1) Is it possible to MIG-weld Land Rover components? 2) If so, what is the proper feed-wire, is it #4043, #5356, or #1100, and also what is the proper size? (.24, .30, .35, .45 in) 3) Do we also use, just like aluminium, Argon as the isolating inert gas? 4) Do you have any comments/experiments on this kind of welding, is it worth it? 5) OOPS! I just realized that I forgot one word in my first question: "Body" goes between Land Rover and components. Thanks for answering those very technical questions. Don't forget, Happy Rovering, and bring a fire extinguisher! Michel Bertrand and Burnt-plastic smelling Rudolph, Ottawa, Ontario -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 11:33:34 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Birmabright welding To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 11:20:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <2ZJaNc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Michele Bertrand" at Jun 2, 94 08:48:49 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2946 Status: RO Michele Bertrand was bold enough to point out... > >Hi! I have a few questions regarding Birmabright welding. > >1) Is it possible to MIG-weld Land Rover components? I have worked at welding the aluminum panels with mixed results. And I have reported/bored the LRO list with some of this in the past, but hey, we have some new subscribers. -- my mig welder is medium ($$$) grade -- it won't push aluminum wire smaller than .45 so that is what I use. And I have infinite control on speed, but 4 switches to choose from on heat. It seems to me that I can't get enough speed for smooth welds as I tend to have it turned up to max speed and still want more. So my aluminum welds are embarassing to look at, but I think quite strong. I take an aluminum grinding wheel (normal ones fill up) and grind them smooth and they look ok. TIP: If you put a piece of steel flat behind a butt weld, it makes the backside quite smooth -- it doesn't stick. And you grind down the front side. I even took an adult education class to get to a TIG welder, but that really didn't work for me for various reasons. They (the school) had a spool-gun attachment that seemed to work the best, but $$$ are involved here. > >2) If so, what is the proper feed-wire, is it #4043, #5356, or #1100, and >also what is the proper size? (.24, .30, .35, .45 in) > I think a smaller wire at higher speed would be better than what I reported above, but I can't try it... >3) Do we also use, just like aluminium, Argon as the isolating inert gas? Yes, argon. > >4) Do you have any comments/experiments on this kind of welding, is it >worth it? > If you have the equipment or want to spend your time and money moving into that arena of the hobby, then you can weld up tears and fill them quite nicely with aluminum body filler. And think of the steel projects you can attack. I did have a transmission bellhousing welded at a welding shop -- $65 mistake. So it is my humble opinion that you probably can't afford commercial repairs -- that is -- used parts would be cheaper. >5) OOPS! I just realized that I forgot one word in my first question: >"Body" goes between Land Rover and components. > FYI, my next excursion into aluminum welding will be with gas. I can get for $79 a jeweler's tip for my torch set. With that I think I can get close to duplicating the heat and concentration of the TIG welding setup. I will get some aluminum rods and try that technique. Butt welds are hard -- holes burn thru too easy, so I might just swallow my pride and put some sort of backing plate on the side you aren't supposed to see... >Thanks for answering those very technical questions. Don't forget, Happy >Rovering, and bring a fire extinguisher! > >Michel Bertrand and Burnt-plastic smelling Rudolph, Ottawa, Ontario > > >-- >Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 13:54:10 1994 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 1994 14:37:18 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover World, et als. Status: RO Dixon writes: > No sooner do I write this, then the June issue of LRO comes through the >door.... June! Crimony, we haven't even gotten *MAY* yet! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 14:06:42 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Little Lulu's birthday bash... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Fri, 3 Jun 94 15:00:00 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406031530.AA15352@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jun 3, 94 10:30 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > I had to take off the front dog on the crankshaft damper > that the crank fits into. No way from below. Took the > winch back off so we could fit a socket extension thru > the front hole in the frame. Wouldn't budge. Heat, still > no movement. I remember this discussion on LRO some times > past -- how did that front crank widget finally get > removed that time. So, I left it last night in place, but > without the driveshaft attached to the crankshaft. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Fit a suitable wrench (I have a mongo adjustable) onto the nut and brace it up against the frame. Hit the starter. Bingo. Make sure you've got the wrench in the right spot.....le's see, engine spins clockwise (when viewed from the front, which is against set principles, so counterclockwise when viewed from the passenger compartment)-so you need to put it either on top of the LH rail (driver's side for the LHD model) or on the bottom of the RH (passenger) rail, right?? Don't take *my* word for it....make sure it's correct first so's you don't destroy your fanblade, radiator, etc. Alternatively, when I asked this question a few months ago there were suggestions that I park on a hill facing up, put it in reverse, affix the wrench, roll backwards and pop the clutch. I was stranded on the flats of a field at the time, so I took a chance on the starter instead. One very brief tap on the knob was all it took. I had my fingers crossed at the time, and this may have helped. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 15:12:55 1994 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 16:01:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: miniture Land Rovers... Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO Dear Jan Wooooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shhhh shhhhhhhhh Ah, sweet air molecules a la perfection hath done wonders for my cobalt complection, We didn't know what you would decide But by your rules we'll now all abide What remains is just sweet gummy reflection. The untold anguish and anticipation reeked havoc with my respiration now T F Mills, the "Norse Druid" references my murky brain fluid in pouetics of pure despiration. Ohhh Sweet mystery of life/ I've found you... in the thread of Rovers made out of goo, our silliness is now over about a cherished toy Rover Dearest Jan I must bid you adieu. ps --Lord Pickwick is suffering from a rare bird brain amnesia. He can only fly as though he is doing the backstroke. The Vet said he would be fine somewhere in the not too distant future, but right now he's not quite up to flapping to Vermont. So US Mail service will have to fill the gap. So with good will to all Bye for now Jon Humphrey Fraternity Supervisor and seeker of Truth Carnegie Mellon University Housing Office Pittsburgh, Pa. 15213 # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium ++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/ ,.________________. /~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~} / // } } "67-109" []]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP []]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============| ____=========_____------| | | | |/|@) (@| | | | | | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ | | |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ | |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_|| |___________________|[ } |[ ] \ / \ \ / \\ } ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 3 12:27:34 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 4 Jun 94 04:42:43 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LuLu's Dog Removal Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray wrote: >> I had to take off the front dog on the crankshaft damper that the crank fits into. No way from below. Took the winch back off so we could fit a socket extension thru the front hole in the frame. Wouldn't budge. Heat, still no movement. I remember this discussion on LRO some times past -- how did that front crank widget finally get removed that time. So, I left it last night in place, but without the driveshaft attached to the crankshaft. >> Ray, Even with a long extension bar I couldn't budge the starter dog on my 88. So I positioned my wrench (a VERY large crescent wrench) so that as the engine turned the handle would contact the frame. Then I engaged the starter (and to my suprise it started) and BANG!!!! I switched off the key and found that the dog was loose. The method is somewhat crude but it may work. Good luck! Bill From LandRover@aol.com Sat Jun 4 08:06:55 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Sat, 04 Jun 94 09:07:37 EDT Subject: Re: Little Lulu's birthday ba... Status: RO Ray... Nice winch.. I used to have one, but never used it. Steve Denis now has it and I think he does have parts diagrams. He has been in England since 5/26 (went over for the ARC Nationals) and should be back around 6/6 I think so he hasn't seen any 'net mail for a while. As fas as two batteries are concerned.. I've put in a GM alternator in my SerIII and don't have any problems with my winch. (Ramsey 8000lb single line) The battery cables route easily under the right-hand side of the radiator. But, you already have a monster to play with so good luck. That Koenig is a monster. We managed to get Steve's 109 in a tight spot in a ravine one time and turned the truck just about 180 degrees with the winch to get it out. Adios.... Mike Loiodice landrover@aol.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 4 11:29:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LR mags.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 10:51:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > It's not necessarily Italian mail,Ludo,I got my LRO a fortnight late. > Even then,I'm not sure it was worth waiting for..... The discussion up here among some of us that have seen LRW, as well as LRO, follows Bill's lines almost exactly. LRO is moving quickly into the 90, Disco, Range Rover area and leaving the rest of us with Series I, II, IIA, and III stuff behind. LRW on the other hand is talking about our vehicles, and despite some perceived formatting problems, is showing much promise. Considering that Link House also produces magazines such as Mini World, LRW will get better... > LRW,by contrast,is turning into a seriously good magazine,at least > this month's is.And we are all in it!Well done,that man Kenner! > You'll *never* get published in LRO now though:-) LRO got the same whack of stuff... We will see what they publish in the future, if anything. BTW, the photo is of the Downeast event, not OVLR, though they will get photos of the Birthday Party fun... :-) > They are getting networked......hmmm....are they *really* ready for > exposure to us wacky lot? If not, it will be even more fun! Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From jrussell@netcom.com Sat Jun 4 13:18:32 1994 Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 11:19:24 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Sender: James B Russell Reply-To: James B Russell Subject: Starter Dog Removal To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Cc: Land-Rover-Owners FORUM In-Reply-To: <9406031530.AA15352@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO While not nearly as dramatic as using the starter, I have found that if I put a mega Crescent wrench or good old fashioned monkey wrench in place and then use a hydraulic jack under the vehicle to turn the wrench against the weight of the vehicle, the dog will come undone quite nicely. If you have the right size socket, that would probably work even better but I have never managed to find that socket when I needed it. I once considered using the starter but then thought about all the damage it might cause if things went wrong. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 4 15:37:19 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Sat, 04 Jun 1994 15:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Farewell To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I've really enjoyed the LRO list, but I'm off to Turkey for three months. And I don't want to annoy my or anyone elses postmaster with bounced messages, so I'm signing off for a bit. But while in Turkey I'll be using a 1957 107 (pink) and a 1964 109, so perhaps I'll share some stories when I get back, as I'm sure there will be some. Cheers, Micahel ramage oops I spell that Michael Ramage 1971 Series IIa Ramagem@carleton.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 03:57:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Little Lulu's birthday bash... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 4 Jun 1994 22:51:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > Rushed home last night at 5:00 after work. Had received > the new(old) winch the prior day and Little Lulu was > anxious. Welcome to the club... :-) These are great winches. > So, my request to the LRO netters. Does anyone out there > have the operating instructions and/or parts diagram > for this unit. One OVLR member has the parts manual (though none are available anymore), though I know of no one with the operating instructions. When I manage to get the copy from him, I'll send you a copy. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 04:02:32 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LR spring cleaning? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 00:01:31 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) writes: > Is it acceptable to have a local spring specialist do the work, > including building new sets when the old ones can't be re-arched. One > such place quoted $90 per pair for re-arching, and $180 per pair if > they need rebuilding. That includes a $200 savings if I take them off > and put them back on myself. These prices are far more attractive > than RN prices for new springs, but am I being pound foolish? I don't know how the Pound is doing against the US dollar these days, but new springs from the UK go for about $60 Canadian, or there abouts. The US dollar is worth $1.30+ Canadian. Shipping is the killer, but it is an option for new springs. > Are there any any other parts besides the road springs that I can > almost certainly count on needing to replace -- like U bolts? U-bolts are probably needed, possibly the main bolts through the shackles. They can be a real challenge to get off and at the cost of a new set, it is probably worth it. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 02:47:26 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR bikini top? To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 01:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1118 Status: RO I'm thinking of customising a bikini top for my IIA 109 pickup, and I thought I'd better plumb the depths of collective wisdom first. My son talked me into taking off the hard top today. We made it through last summer topless, but this time I'd like to throw together something cheap just in case we hit some late or early snow storms. I have a hoop and a good piece of canvas. Is it possible to use a standard genuine LR windscreen bracket and fasten a plain piece of canvas to it so that it is easily removable? I don't have the bracket, but I'll go so far as to order a $53 one from RN. (Any other genuine hoop set parts and canvas is pretty much out the of the financial question, since the poor vehicle is crying for some more basic maintenance before these luxuries.) If the bracket doesn't sound like a good idea, I may use the Michael the Turk Ramage method (going to Kurdistan by any chance?) with a piece of oak, gromets and snaps. Thanks for your ideas! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 03:07:11 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR spring cleaning? To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 02:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 955 Status: RO Another question from the other pouet-pouet Rover: The old lady is overdue for spring cleaning -- like all four of them. Is it acceptable to have a local spring specialist do the work, including building new sets when the old ones can't be re-arched. One such place quoted $90 per pair for re-arching, and $180 per pair if they need rebuilding. That includes a $200 savings if I take them off and put them back on myself. These prices are far more attractive than RN prices for new springs, but am I being pound foolish? Are there any any other parts besides the road springs that I can almost certainly count on needing to replace -- like U bolts? Should I also be replacing the shocks at the same time? Any recommended cheap American brands? (Somebody suggested Sears for $10 each) Thanks again! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 14:29:52 1994 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 13:13:02 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR bikini top? To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406050740.AA03473@diana.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have the real top but I used to have the type of top you want. I found that the cheap method was to go to a trailer store and buy a piece of the aluminum extrusion used to put a canvas on the side of a trailer. It is easily drilled to match the holes used for the hard top. You make your canvas top with a piece of rope in it at the leading edge and it slides into the aluminum extrusion, making a waterproof and perhaps more inportant, a wind proof edge for your top. Another choice is the turn smaps used for boat hardwar. In my area the fellows use all kinds of boat top hardware because it is stainless or plastic and is cheap. The hoops in my original top were conduit. I found that because I didn't have the large diameter in my junk collection, I used the 1/2 inch and put 3/4 inch unions arond the smaller pipe, connected it with pop rivits and it filled the holes on the body where the hoops go in quite nicely. The only parts you really need from the factory top are the parts around the door which attach to the first hoop. They would be difficult to fabricate in the shop, but if you rubn with the top of the doors off you don't need them anyway. For my present top, I found that the British Military left a few 109s in Alburta which whith a little modification of the length of the canvas, fit just as well as the 88 real top. Presently I use the top with the sides rolled up to a piece of full length conduit, and it makes a great sun screen while at the same time providing a convertalble. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 14:36:26 1994 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 13:21:05 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR spring cleaning? To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406050801.AA11418@diana.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have found that the rubber grommets (2) on each end of the shocks will get pounded out long before the shocks and the springs. The little holders for the spring leaves will likely be not reusable so the spring man will make new ones if he is going to separate the spring leaves. You can clean the units yourself, but I have found that short of burning out the rubber inserts at each spring eye, you will never get them out on your own. You will end up cutting or burning them off so the labour he quoted is not all that much if you consider the problems you are likely to have. A cheap fix is to get a can of spray oil or if you dont have one, get a spray furniture bottle or the like and spray oil between the leaves. It is the inablility of the leaves to slike past each other which gives the real harshness to old springs and adds to the noise. One of the fellows here found that to order springs from Merseyside Land Rover in the UK including shipping was cheaper than a rebuild in our area. It is better to get a few fellows together to order parts from them because they have a flat rate on export costs so a full Land Rover or a gasket will cost the same. We love them however and the service is about three days to Manitoba. You can phone them if you want. If you want the number give me a note and I will pull out one of the old bills. One fellow has ordered over $10,000 in parts and is very pleased. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 14:45:11 1994 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 13:29:23 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR spring cleaning? To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406050801.AA11418@diana.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Forgot to mention the other parts you will likely need. It is a good idea to replace the "U" bolts. Because the threads face down, they take a real beating, and you will likely have to cut them off. Even if they are still good, the "U" bolts don't always go on with equal pull on each side and they can be distorted. It would be a shame to have a "U" bolt fail and release the axle just for saving a few bucks. No matter what, the night before you do all this neat stuff spray liberaly with WD40 or similar because I have found that running hardware and exhausts to be the worst thing on these bests to get off. The galvanic action between the aluminum body and the body bolts rate a good and reliable second place. By the way we are using rochester carbs with the jets filled with solder and then redrilled here. It is cheap and runs great. That is for the fellow who said he needed a new carb and couldn't afford one. The holes of the old single barrel with a touch of a file fit right on. Even the linkage fits without modification. Just remove the ball connector at the nut and put it on the Rochester throttle arm and you are in business. Hot rod stores sell a manual choke kit if you want to retain the old system and volla a great carb at little cost. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 5 22:20:08 1994 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 22:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR spring cleaning? To: "T.F. Mills" , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO You asked about the shock absorbers for your machine. U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine. The numbers are G63494 and G63299. The longer ones go on the back. I phoned Monroe in the U.S. and they said they didn't list shocks for Land Rover. We paid $53.00 Canadian each in Selkirk Manitoba. My price in Selkirk for a complete spring rebuild was quoted at $100 each. If anyone is looking for low priced hubs they are available from J.C Whitney in the U.S. list price $78.97 a pair. They are on page 117 of their catalog. The catalog is free at 1-312-431-6102. They are the largest parts dealer mail order in the U.S. They stock over 65,000 items for guys like us. I used to write a colum about Land Rover save money tips, so from time to time I will include a tid-bit or two for the net. I found a great source of rubber door seal at a local jobber in Winnipeg. It is also available at J.C. Whitney and 1/2 price of genuine Land Rover. Bye for now Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 02:26:56 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Mon, 6 Jun 1994 08:15:50 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 08:15:38 +0000 Subject: LandRovers on Film... Priority: normal Status: RO Morning all! Last night I went out to see "4 Weddings and a Funeral" (BTW -- it's a very funny film). One of the main characters has a SWB IIA [petrol] as their main transport. ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. #======================================================================# Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 05:25:06 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Nigel update To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 11:11:29 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406022134.RAA07752@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at Jun 2, 94 05:36:06 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 261 Status: RO > and assorted bits (esp gear oil) needed for the job. The resurfacing > job looked just great, but they failed to remove my locator studs > and just ground them *both* off. How's about that, Marcus?? The word 'cowboys' springs readily to mind... Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 09:11:13 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Nigel update To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 10:01:41 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406061011.AA00352@it040.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at Jun 6, 94 11:11 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > > and assorted bits (esp gear oil) needed for the job. The resurfacing > > job looked just great, but they failed to remove my locator studs > > and just ground them *both* off. How's about that, Marcus?? > > The word 'cowboys' springs readily to mind... > > Marcus. > The word "mellonhead" sprung to mine. rd/nige (all fixed!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 13:24:31 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 7 Jun 94 04:37:17 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Door Seals Content-Type: Text Status: RO David writes: >> I found a great source of rubber door seal at a local jobber in Winnipeg. It is also available at J.C. Whitney and 1/2 price of genuine Land Rover. Bye for now Dave VE4PN >> David, Could you give us more details on the door seal material? Is it similar to the original or is it the soft type like ABP sells (kind of like rubber macaroni with a flat spot on one side)? Part # (J.C. Whitney)? Can it be riveted on or do you have to use weatherstrip adhesive? How do you like it? Thanks, Bill Maloney From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 16:49:57 1994 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:39:43 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Tailgate on a 109 SW Cc: bellas@gamma.tti.com Status: RO Hi gang, I am not on the list anymore but thought you could answer a question for me. is it possible to replace the swing out door on the back of a 109 SW with a tailgate (in combination with ??? for the upper half). I am thinking again on how the 109 can serve double duty as a light pickup. I already have the roof rack solved, now if I had a tailgate/hatchback rather than the door I would have it made. This also means that money that was set aside to replace my pickup could go to the restoration. Thanks for any info. Since I am not on the list email is prefered or at least cc me directly, thanks again. -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * bellas@gamma.tti.com * From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 18:55:58 1994 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 18:33:00 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Door Seals To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406061813.OAA17404@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The material I purchased was profiled so that it fit onto the out side edge of the aluminum on both the top and the main body members of the Land Rover. The advantage of this material was that it already has adhisive on it so all you do is cut it to length and then pound it on with a rubber mallet. It is so good, I decided not to order the original stuff I had planned. I have one door with original Land Rover (new) and the other door with my local purchased stuff and I rate the local stuff 150% over the original. As you know, the original needs pop rivits to put it on and it doesn't seem to fill the voids. If I am in the city in the next couple of weeks I will get the order number and address of the stuff. They provide a 2-3 inch sample when you go in. And no, I didn't see the same profile in J.C. Whitney. The stuff here has like teeth on the back with the pre applied glue so it sticks like flint. Whith our temperatures, we really need good wheather strip. By the way, I found that foam insulation tape with the slippery facing fit nicely between the sliding windows on my 88. the trick is to install it, and then take a very new razor blade and slip it down the face between the two windows to trim the material to the right thickness. If you don't do this, when the tape gets some dust in it, it peels away when you slide the window. After cutting, it slides very well. Another cold weather tip, is to use snow mobile blick vinyl when recovering seats and door panels. This material does not crack in cold weather and stands up better than regular Nuggihide (sp?). I re-surfaced the roof of my hard top with new material and it looks great. I would suggest that only the hardy try it because it is a very tricky job. Try glueing new material over the old stuff so you don't have to get involved with all the wewing etc. It was a very tough job and one I would rate as less satisfying than doing an axle seal etc. I have also found that a squirt of clear silicone arond the mechinism for selecting Hi-LOw stops the rattles they all seem to have. It doesn't interfere with the working if you don't overdoo it and it helps cut noise. Another tip for those looking for a nice cheap carpet for your beast. I was able to get all the carpet I could remove from an auto wrecker for $5.00. The best cars are the Pinto Hatchbacks. The carpets are large enough to do the whole vehicle. I glued the carpet to the seat box and it looks like a factory job, but one of our members suggested velcro so you could take it off if you were going to wade the vehicle. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 19:04:52 1994 Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 18:46:16 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Tailgate on a 109 SW To: Bellas Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, bellas@gamma.tti.com In-Reply-To: <9406062139.AA01099@gamma.tti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I also made my stationwagon into a truck body style when using the hardtop. If you have the two eyes on the back frame for the tailgate you are laughing. just get an ordinary tailgate and it slides into the grommets. You will have to provide a system for holding tailgate up. On mine I took stainless bolts and hardware about 3/4 inch and drilled the two galvinized plates which line up with the two circular tailgate retaining pieces on the tailgate, and then I filed the nuts round so they would go through the two retaining pieces on the tailgate. I drilled the bolts and use "D" rings to retain the tailgate in the upright position. I used aircraft cable with clinched end eyes to replace what used to be chains on tailgates in the old days. The advantave is no rattle when you drive and they look cleaner. They are just as strong. Princess Auto in Winnipeg had some great surplice ones for .75 each with the eyes etc attached. Check our your army surplice store they might have the same thing. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 6 23:02:59 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR in TV commercials To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 21:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 526 Status: RO I was watching "Lovejoy" tonight (A&E cable), and saw TWO MicroLink commercials, both using Rovers. One puts Range Rover in a favorable light with a suspicious close-up of the name on the bonnet. The other unflattering one features a man calling (cellular) for help from his IIA stuck in ankle-deep water! Two Rovers cannot be a coincidence, but ankle-deep water? Really! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 01:36:21 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR in TV commercials -- correction To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 270 Status: RO umm... that was MOBILINK, not MicroLink -- a very forgettable name, considering their misuse of the venerable Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 02:22:11 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR in MobiLink commercial --another correction To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 01:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 296 Status: RO Upon seeing the MobiLink commercial a second time, maybe the Land Rover wasn't stuck. Maybe the driver was simply lost. Yeah, that's a lot better. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 04:05:45 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: bellas@gamma.tti.com Subject: check it out - Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 04:54:28 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: lro-digest-owner@uk.stratus.com Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 07:55:18 +0100 From: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Message-Id: <199406070655.HAA10416@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Digest Reply-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Errors-To: car-list-rejects@Team.Net X-List-Admin-to: land-rover-owner-request@Team.Net X-Digest-Admin-to: MajorDomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com X-Comment: Not affiliated with the magazine of similar name. Distribution: world Organization: Team.Net Precedence: bulk Land Rover Owner Digest: 1 caloccia@Team.Net Tue Jun 6 00:43 35/1359 LRO DIGEST: Coming Soon to a VDU near you ! 2 umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Mon Jun 6 04:22 35/2132 Re: LR spring cleaning? 3 IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk Mon Jun 6 08:28 34/1714 LandRovers on Film... 4 dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Mon Jun 6 10:03 50/2360 LR spring cleaning? 5 marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Mon Jun 6 11:26 28/1445 Re: Nigel update 6 dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Mon Jun 6 15:11 148/7158 Re: Nigel update 7 umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Tue Jun 7 00:48 37/2167 Re: Tailgate on a 109 SW 8 tomills@diana.cair.du.edu Tue Jun 7 04:51 27/1401 LR in TV commercials 9 tomills@diana.cair.du.edu Tue Jun 7 07:25 23/1159 LR in TV commercials -- c -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1994 00:43:28 +0100 From: Bill Caloccia Message-Id: <199406062343.AAA10316@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Subject: LRO-DIGEST: Coming Soon to a VDU near you Yes, this long awaited project is nearing the end of the speedy development cycle. In addition to once-per day compilations of messages, in a format that is easy to follow, the digest version will truely be pre-digested by awk scripts. (1) header added with list of users/subjects (ala /usr/ucb/mail -H) (2) digested messages (a) unthoughtfully posted long included messages will be gutted (with annotations) (b) top ten unwanted control characters will be converted to harmless ascii representations (c) normal headers will be reduced to 3 or 4 lines. (3) all subscriptions will be handled by Majordomo, the perl-script UNIX cousin of ListServ All this just so Biff will bark less; you'll not have to sort out your lro mail to get to your work mail, or to print it out for friends. Anyone who chooses to be a white mouse and participate in these trials while it is under development, simply send mail to: lro-digest-request@chunnel.uk.stratus.com and MajorDomo will help you get your subscription sorted out. Cheers, - Bill caloccia@stratus.com Stratus Computer Ltd Central House, Lampton Road Hounslow, Middlesex, TW3 1HY, U.K. tele: +44 81 570 4433 fax: +44 81 569 4755 -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 22:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR spring cleaning? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: You asked about the shock absorbers for your machine. U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine. The numbers are G63494 and G63299. The longer ones go on the back. I phoned Monroe in the U.S. and they said they didn't list shocks for Land Rover. We paid $53.00 Canadian each in Selkirk Manitoba. My price in Selkirk for a complete spring rebuild was quoted at $100 each. If anyone is looking for low priced hubs they are available from J.C Whitney in the U.S. list price $78.97 a pair. They are on page 117 of their catalog. The catalog is free at 1-312-431-6102. They are the largest parts dealer mail order in the U.S. They stock over 65,000 items for guys like us. I used to write a colum about Land Rover save money tips, so from time to time I will include a tid-bit or two for the net. I found a great source of rubber door seal at a local jobber in Winnipeg. It is also available at J.C. Whitney and 1/2 price of genuine Land Rover. Bye for now Dave VE4PN -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 08:15:38 +0000 Subject: LandRovers on Film... Morning all! Last night I went out to see "4 Weddings and a Funeral" (BTW -- it's a very funny film). One of the main characters has a SWB IIA [petrol] as their main transport. ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. #======================================================================# Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Subject: LR spring cleaning? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Message-Id: <9kFFNc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 00:01:31 -0400 tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) writes: > Is it acceptable to have a local spring specialist do the work, > including building new sets when the old ones can't be re-arched. One [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > and put them back on myself. These prices are far more attractive > than RN prices for new springs, but am I being pound foolish? I don't know how the Pound is doing against the US dollar these days, but new springs from the UK go for about $60 Canadian, or there abouts. The US dollar is worth $1.30+ Canadian. Shipping is the killer, but it is an option for new springs. > Are there any any other parts besides the road springs that I can > almost certainly count on needing to replace -- like U bolts? U-bolts are probably needed, possibly the main bolts through the shackles. They can be a real challenge to get off and at the cost of a new set, it is probably worth it. Rgds, Dixon - -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Message-Id: <9406061011.AA00352@it040.dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Nigel update Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 11:11:29 +0000 (BST) In-Reply-To: <199406022134.RAA07752@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at Jun 2, 94 05:36:06 pm > and assorted bits (esp gear oil) needed for the job. The resurfacing > job looked just great, but they failed to remove my locator studs > and just ground them *both* off. How's about that, Marcus?? The word 'cowboys' springs readily to mind... Marcus. -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406061400.KAA28538@transfer.stratus.com> From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Nigel update Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 10:01:41 EDT In-Reply-To: <9406061011.AA00352@it040.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at Jun 6, 94 11:11 am > > and assorted bits (esp gear oil) needed for the job. The resurfacing > > job looked just great, but they failed to remove my locator studs [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > The word 'cowboys' springs readily to mind... > Marcus. The word "mellonhead" sprung to mine. rd/nige (all fixed!) -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Message-Id: <199406061813.OAA17404@transfer.stratus.com> From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 7 Jun 94 04:37:17 GMT Subject: Door Seals David writes: none I found a great source of rubber door seal at a local jobber in Winnipeg. It is also available at J.C. Whitney and 1/2 price of genuine Land Rover. Bye for now Dave VE4PN none David, Could you give us more details on the door seal material? Is it similar to the original or is it the soft type like ABP sells (kind of like rubber macaroni with a flat spot on one side)? Part # (J.C. Whitney)? Can it be riveted on or do you have to use weatherstrip adhesive? How do you like it? Thanks, Bill Maloney -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 94 14:39:43 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Message-Id: <9406062139.AA01099@gamma.tti.com> Subject: Tailgate on a 109 SW Hi gang, I am not on the list anymore but thought you could answer a question for me. is it possible to replace the swing out door on the back of a 109 SW with a tailgate (in combination with ??? for the upper half). I am thinking again on how the 109 can serve double duty as a light pickup. I already have the roof rack solved, now if I had a tailgate/hatchback rather than the door I would have it made. This also means that money that was set aside to replace my pickup could go to the restoration. Thanks for any info. Since I am not on the list email is prefered or at least cc me directly, thanks again. -Pete- * Pete Bellas "Cogito ergo spud" * * Citicorp/TTI I think therefore I yam. * * Santa Monica, CA * * bellas@gamma.tti.com * -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 18:33:00 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Door Seals In-Reply-To: <199406061813.OAA17404@transfer.stratus.com> Message-Id: The material I purchased was profiled so that it fit onto the out side edge of the aluminum on both the top and the main body members of the Land Rover. The advantage of this material was that it already has adhisive on it so all you do is cut it to length and then pound it on with a rubber mallet. It is so good, I decided not to order the original stuff I had planned. I have one door with original Land Rover (new) and the other door with my local purchased stuff and I rate the local stuff 150% over the original. As you know, the original needs pop rivits to put it on and it doesn't seem to fill the voids. If I am in the city in the next couple of weeks I will get the order number and address of the stuff. They provide a 2-3 inch sample when you go in. And no, I didn't see the same profile in J.C. Whitney. The stuff here has like teeth on the back with the pre applied glue so it sticks like flint. Whith our temperatures, we really need good wheather strip. By the way, I found that foam insulation tape with the slippery facing fit nicely between the sliding windows on my 88. the trick is to install it, and then take a very new razor blade and slip it down the face between the two windows to trim the material to the right thickness. If you don't do this, when the tape gets some dust in it, it peels away when you slide the window. After cutting, it slides very well. Another cold weather tip, is to use snow mobile blick vinyl when recovering seats and door panels. This material does not crack in cold weather and stands up better than regular Nuggihide (sp?). I re-surfaced the roof of my hard top with new material and it looks great. I would suggest that only the hardy try it because it is a very tricky job. Try glueing new material over the old stuff so you don't have to get involved with all the wewing etc. It was a very tough job and one I would rate as less satisfying than doing an axle seal etc. I have also found that a squirt of clear silicone arond the mechinism for selecting Hi-LOw stops the rattles they all seem to have. It doesn't interfere with the working if you don't overdoo it and it helps cut noise. Another tip for those looking for a nice cheap carpet for your beast. I was able to get all the carpet I could remove from an auto wrecker for $5.00. The best cars are the Pinto Hatchbacks. The carpets are large enough to do the whole vehicle. I glued the carpet to the seat box and it looks like a factory job, but one of our members suggested velcro so you could take it off if you were going to wade the vehicle. Cheers Dave VE4PN -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 18:46:16 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Tailgate on a 109 SW In-Reply-To: <9406062139.AA01099@gamma.tti.com> Message-Id: I also made my stationwagon into a truck body style when using the hardtop. If you have the two eyes on the back frame for the tailgate you are laughing. just get an ordinary tailgate and it slides into the grommets. You will have to provide a system for holding tailgate up. On mine I took stainless bolts and hardware about 3/4 inch and drilled the two galvinized plates which line up with the two circular tailgate retaining pieces on the tailgate, and then I filed the nuts round so they would go through the two retaining pieces on the tailgate. I drilled the bolts and use "D" rings to retain the tailgate in the upright position. I used aircraft cable with clinched end eyes to replace what used to be chains on tailgates in the old days. The advantave is no rattle when you drive and they look cleaner. They are just as strong. Princess Auto in Winnipeg had some great surplice ones for .75 each with the eyes etc attached. Check our your army surplice store they might have the same thing. Cheers Dave VE4PN -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Message-Id: <9406070355.AA08920@diana.cair.du.edu> Subject: LR in TV commercials Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 21:55:18 -0600 (MDT) I was watching "Lovejoy" tonight (A&E cable), and saw TWO MicroLink commercials, both using Rovers. One puts Range Rover in a favorable light with a suspicious close-up of the name on the bonnet. The other unflattering one features a man calling (cellular) for help from his IIA stuck in ankle-deep water! Two Rovers cannot be a coincidence, but ankle-deep water? Really! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA -----------land-rover-owner-digest-------- From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Message-Id: <9406070630.AA21096@diana.cair.du.edu> Subject: LR in TV commercials -- correction Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:30:12 -0600 (MDT) umm... that was MOBILINK, not MicroLink -- a very forgettable name, considering their misuse of the venerable Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 06:42:59 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 7 Jun 94 23:23:28 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Shocks Content-Type: Text Status: RO T. F. Mills asked: >> Should I also be replacing the shocks at the same time? Any recommended cheap American brands? (Somebody suggested Sears for $10 each) >> T. F., Right before the Sears catalog stores closed I ordered a set of Rancho RS 5000 gas shocks. The Rancho part numbers for an 88 are 5163 and 5169. The invoice doesn't say which is front or back but the longer should go on the back. Sears has reopened their automotive catalog (more limited than it used to be) and is listing Rancho shocks again but no price is given. You could call Rancho direct (310-630-0700) or try one of the off road magazines, choose the ad with the lowest price ($34-$36 last time I looked), and have them shipped. I haven't installed mine yet but will soon as my backordered springs from RN arrived yesterday. Almost forgot, the Rancho shocks have a lifetime warranty, so save your invoice. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 10:10:56 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: check it out - To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:02:23 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406070854.EAA26835@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Jun 07, 94 4:54 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Bill G.- V. nice. Especially useful for those that get mail from other groups. I am tempted to be a white mouse, but wonder if the one-day lag time in the postings will get to me (it is nice to get that nearly instantaneous response sometimes, especially when it comes from either side of the pond at the same time). Can we be white mice and still get the undigested form? BTW, brother fred (fadushin@top.cis.syr.edu) has written a script (for his mailer, anyway) that sorts lro mail from his other stuff and writes it to a file. Every so often he prints it out and takes it to his "library" or his "reading room". In the past he has volunteered to send it on to anyone who wants it (it'll only work for those who have the same mailer as he) so send him a request if you do. (He is out of town for a week or so, so be patient.) cheers, rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 10:30:49 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Russell G. Dushin" Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: check it out - In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Jun 94 11:02:23 EDT." <199406071501.LAA27326@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 11:18:16 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > I am tempted to be a white mouse, but wonder > if the one-day lag time in the postings will get to me (it .... > the same time). Can we be white mice and still get the > undigested form? Joining the Digest will not remove you from the Mailing List. (and as usual, even if you wrote me, wanting to leave the mailing list, you'd probably have to wait a few days 'til I got about to editing the list). The wonderful thing for me is I don't actually have to manipulate the Digest List (and if all goes well, I'll set up LRO in the same way) for adds and deletes (unless you do something out of the ordinary). The other things digests tend to do is lower the amount of noise, and promote people sending in one message with multiple comments. So, take it for a test drive - email to lro-digest-request@chunnel.uk.stratus.com -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 12:30:14 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:21:42 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: one down... Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Folks- Nigel's clutch works like a champ. The judder problem is history. Thanks to all who offerred advice, and to those that didn't but meditated on the subject while thinking nice thoughts about that little Nige fellow. Nigel's second persistant problem is one of front wheel wobble. When Nigel hits a bump at just the right speed the steering wheel does the equivalent of a "tank slapper" for those of you well versed in motorcycle lingo. This problem occurs most easily while under "no-load" conditions (not accellerating nor decellerating; just coasting along). Awhile back this problem was addressed........removal of several shims in the swivel pin housing and an alignment pretty much took care of it, but it has gradually returned. The last time I had the steering arms out of the swivel pin housing I noticed that the splines that fit into the cones were a tad buggered up. (Note: this is an old style cone-and-spring setup, with a pendant-i.e. hanging-track rod and the steering arms on top of the swivel pin housings.) Surely, itsa time for replacement, but the steering arms are NLA, and the cone$ and $pring$ ain't cheap. So, taking Mike Rooth's advice of long ago, I've decided to go with Railco bushes. A kit is available from RN ($145.50 US) that apparently includes the bushes, a replacement for my buggered spline (that I'll have to press out of my steering arms and press the new one in), and all the required lock tabs and gaskets. For good measure, I ordered new lower bearings seals (which were replaced just last year but suffered damage in a tank slapper) as well. This kit comes *sans* instructions, and only Charlie (who was tied up) at RN has apparently done the conversion from cones to railco. So, question of the day: anyone done this conversion on the old style cone and spring/pendant track rod setup? Comments or suggestions? Also, my track rod is *slightly* tweeked.......could this make a difference? Should I attempt to straighten it (with heat and persuasion) or just buy new ($60 or so)? Thanks again in advance, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 13:12:55 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 14:03:57 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: one down... Status: RO Just a note on the steering judder experienced by nigel (although not necessarily applicable): When I first had my rover, it had a similar problem. I progressively fixed up the front end, and it would get better, but not quite go away. Even the unwise addition of a rancho steering stabiliser (ahh, those were my young and foolish days ;) failed to totally eliminate the problem. Finally, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to replace all my tires (which were archeological, but otherwise lacking any weird wear patterns). [As a side note: replacing a flat during rush hour on the mass pike in boston with no breakdown lane is quite, ahhh, exhilirating]. Well, after fitting the new tires, the problem finally disappeared. It seems that the tires had acquired weird wear bias of some sort and were sustaining the old vibration despite my having repaired/rebuilt the entire front end. -jory ps: I should be getting my second fuel tank today or tomorrow! The installation should begin in earnest this weekend. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 14:13:43 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: one down... Date: 7 Jun 1994 19:04:13 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO The conversion to Railko bushes is really straight forward, doesn't vary for pendant or non-pendant steering. Since the wear surfaces are fiber, they like to stay lubricated and empregnated with oil; this system is less forgiving to those who do not engage locking hubs for extended periods of time. When dried out, they wear at an accelerated rate or begin to seize and stiffen up. (Personal bias: I run without locking hubs.) My Series I 107 got converted to Railko's last year. The conversion kits usually do not come with shims for trucks with 3/8 studs, but with shims for 7/16" ones. Best to accumulate some (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if he has pendant arms. Tie rod should be OK if reasonably straightened in a press or vice. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 14:34:31 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:26:15 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: one down... Status: RO Seconding Jory's note: When I first bought my 107 wagon in 1970, I bought the finest tires (my) money could buy: 4 bias ply sand-imbedded retread snow tires. The tire shop must have known they had gotten the last of my money. Could it have been the rolls of coins that I paid them with? So they didn't even ask if I wanted them balanced. Every once in a while, the front end would start shaking like it was going to fall off. The only way to get it to stop shaking was to come to an almost complete stop. I lived in Maine at the time, so it was easier to do that than on the Mass. Pike. After several years of this, I became friends with a guy who owned a tire shop. The first time he took a ride in the Land Rover, the front end started shaking. He told me to bring it to his shop the next day. He properly balanced all four wheels and the shaking never returned. Some day I'll have to see what all those years of shaking may have damaged in the front end, but the problem did go away without touching any front end components. Could that be the reason for a badly worn front differential, I wonder? I'll be picking up Michael Ramage's cast off front axle on Thursday, which I hope will supply the components to fix that problem. If not, it'll at least provide me with some exercise. <--------------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Distributed Technologies Technical Support | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <--------------------------------------------------------------> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 13:44:56 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 8 Jun 94 06:31:49 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Wheel Wobble Content-Type: Text Status: RO Russel wrote: >> Nigel's second persistant problem is one of front wheel wobble. When Nigel hits a bump at just the right speed the steering wheel does the equivalent of a "tank slapper" for those of you well versed in motorcycle lingo. This problem occurs most easily while under "no-load" conditions (not accellerating nor decellerating; just coasting along). Awhile back this problem was addressed........removal of several shims in the swivel pin housing and an alignment pretty much took care of it, but it has gradually returned. >> Russel, I had a similar problem twice, once after I got the 109 on the road (swivel pin shim adustment cured the problem) then again after I replaced the tie rod ends. I had left a couple of the ends just loose enough to allow that horrible harmonic wheel wobble to set in. A real scary feeling. Checking the tie rod nuts would be cheap & quick. I also noticed the higher the tire pressure the greater the magnitude of the wobble. Also check your steering relay and make sure it's not dry. It can cause the same problem. If your tie rod is bent far enough, it might flex enough to cause the wobble, but I think it would have to be bent pretty far. Sorry, I haven't done a Railco bush conversion and can't help you on that end. I'm not certain, but I believe the old style lower steering arm can be converted to the later upper arm type. Cost would be an issue. If the old stuff's in good shape, I'd leave it alone. Good Luck! Bill From ccray Tue Jun 7 15:55:08 1994 Subject: protective underguard plates... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:55:08 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1382 Status: RO In looking thru ads in LRO, I noted some protective shields that can be attached to the front of a LR to protect the steering track rods: SOUTHDOWN UNDERGUARD PROTECTIVE SYSTEM Steering guards, Front axle guards, Axle guards & fuel tank Guards. Specifically page 144 of February (the only one I have at the office, today). Being a welding/galvanizing fool, I said to myself "I can make one of those". Any netters out there seen one or have one. It seems to me they would be protective in heavy brush or heavy rocks. Protect the track rods and maybe the brake hoses. I am interested cause I think it might make Lulu look a little tougher and the jeepers might recoil in fear. And maybe a diamond design plate might look good. And if you are making one, you might as well make three... 1. what thickness (say 3/16) plate do they use. 2. It appears that the track-rod protector attaches to the spring shackel bolt on the front -- how might it attach at the rear? 3. any ideas on costs -- maybe I should just buy one... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 16:02:21 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 16:54:07 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Jory wrote: >>> Just a note on the steering judder experienced by nigel (although not necessarily applicable): When I first had my rover, it had a similar problem. I progressively fixed up the front end, and it would get better, but not quite go away. Even the unwise addition of a rancho steering stabiliser (ahh, those were my young and foolish days ;) failed to totally eliminate the problem. Finally, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to replace all my tires (which were archeological, but otherwise lacking any weird wear patterns). [As a side note: replacing a flat during rush hour on the mass pike in boston with no breakdown lane is quite, ahhh, exhilirating]. Well, after fitting the new tires, the problem finally disappeared. It seems that the tires had acquired weird wear bias of some sort and were sustaining the old vibration despite my having repaired/rebuilt the entire front end. >>> hmm. Got some old 7.5 x 16 Michelin radials here...... **************************************************************** And Bill M. wrote: >>> I had a similar problem twice, once after I got the 109 on the road (swivel pin shim adustment cured the problem) then again after I replaced the tie rod ends. I had left a couple of the ends just loose enough to allow that horrible harmonic wheel wobble to set in. A real scary feeling. Checking the tie rod nuts would be cheap & quick. I also noticed the higher the tire pressure the greater the magnitude of the wobble. Also check your steering relay and make sure it's not dry. It can cause the same problem. If your tie rod is bent far enough, it might flex enough to cause the wobble, but I think it would have to be bent pretty far. >>> Tie rod ends are new (last year), will check on their nuts, and the relay is surely dry or nearly so by now (it leaks like a sieve, and I oughta do the seal, but not looking forward to that job so I just keep on topping it off and lubing my frame). As for the bend, well, it's bent all right, but I am not so sure it is the problem. ***************************************************************** And Randy wrote: >>> The conversion to Railko bushes is really straight forward, doesn't vary for pendant or non-pendant steering. Since the wear surfaces are fiber, they like to stay lubricated and empregnated with oil; this system is less forgiving to those who do not engage locking hubs for extended periods of time. When dried out, they wear at an accelerated rate or begin to seize and stiffen up. (Personal bias: I run without locking hubs.) My Series I 107 got converted to Railko's last year. The conversion kits usually do not come with shims for trucks with 3/8 studs, but with shims for 7/16" ones. Best to accumulate some (new or used) before tearing down. Nigel will surely be 3/8" studs if Tie rod should be OK if reasonably straightened in a press or vice. >>> All good to know. Thanks! **************************************************************** And Steve, the lucky guy in Ithaca, wrote: >>> Seconding Jory's note: When I first bought my 107 wagon in 1970, I bought the finest tires (my) money could buy: 4 bias ply sand-imbedded retread snow tires. The tire shop must have known they had gotten the last of my money. Could it have been the rolls of coins that I paid them with? So they didn't even ask if I wanted them balanced. Every once in a while, the front end would start shaking like it was going to fall off. The only way to get it to stop shaking was to come to an almost complete stop. I lived in Maine at the time, so it was easier to do that than on the Mass. Pike. After several years of this, I became friends with a guy who owned a tire shop. The first time he took a ride in the Land Rover, the front end started shaking. He told me to bring it to his shop the next day. He properly balanced all four wheels and the shaking never returned. Some day I'll have to see what all those years of shaking may have damaged in the front end, but the problem did go away without touching any front end components. Could that be the reason for a badly worn front differential, I wonder? I'll be picking up Michael Ramage's cast off front axle on Thursday, which I hope will supply the components to fix that problem. If not, it'll at least provide me with some exercise. >>> Balancing my wheels was the last thing I did (just before re-realigning the front end-the toe in adjustment-) last year. That *seemed* to have helped the problem, but now it is back. (Maybe I lost a weight somewhere along the line.?!) Watch out for a hernia! Thanks all. Methinks that since I know my spline is nearly shot (on the steering arm), and since this gives rise to some complete *free* play in the swivel on the LH side (and this is _usually_ the side that gives me trouble.....ie bumps on the left are worse than bumps on the right) that I'm gonna go ahead and do this Railco conversion. Gotta be this weekend if I expect to make the OVLR party, but it's now haying season and there's work to be done............ Rgds, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 16:04:23 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: protective underguard plates... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:55:08 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1381 Status: RO In looking thru ads in LRO, I noted some protective shields that can be attached to the front of a LR to protect the steering track rods: SOUTHDOWN UNDERGUARD PROTECTIVE SYSTEM Steering guards, Front axle guards, Axle guards & fuel tank Guards. Specifically page 144 of February (the only one I have at the office, today). Being a welding/galvanizing fool, I said to myself "I can make one of those". Any netters out there seen one or have one. It seems to me they would be protective in heavy brush or heavy rocks. Protect the track rods and maybe the brake hoses. I am interested cause I think it might make Lulu look a little tougher and the jeepers might recoil in fear. And maybe a diamond design plate might look good. And if you are making one, you might as well make three... 1. what thickness (say 3/16) plate do they use. 2. It appears that the track-rod protector attaches to the spring shackel bolt on the front -- how might it attach at the rear? 3. any ideas on costs -- maybe I should just buy one... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 02:03:30 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Part number... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 11:59:16 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Anyone have a non-Land Rover part number for the Swivel Ball seal? A chap up here wants to get a new seal from the local parts house, but requires some number that can be cross-referenced between manufacturers. Thx, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 02:05:48 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: bellas@gamma.tti.com Subject: Tailgate on a 109 SW From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 13:24:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) writes: > is it possible to replace the swing out door on the back of a 109 SW > with a tailgate (in combination with ??? for the upper half). Like most anything Land Roverish, the answer is yes, but with a provision If you have the original rear crossmember on there, it will be missing the two brackets that are required for the tailgate to swing on. Other than that, all you need to do is acquire all of the bits required.. I don't know of the situation down there, but up here the bits required for thehatch hat goes above are pretty rare. Tailgates are usually in pretty poor shape, though obtainable. The other part, well... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 02:03:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 19:39:37 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Hello you all, back on the system after the D Day weekend. i have some news for you all. The Canadian Armed forces have bought 3 Land Rover 110 CAV 100 vehicles. These are armoured and are based on a 110 chassis cab and are fitted with a package made by Courtaulds aerospace. The liason officers with the Canadian UN mission goe alone into lonely places and need protection. This need was identified early on and up unitl recently these officers were using British CAV 100's on loan. All three vehciles are left hand drive and are fitted with riot screens for the windows. Our defence department is very cagey about vehcile buys as another project is taking a slamming in the press, so it was hard to worm this info out of them, my thanks go to my source who will remain nameless for the time being. In case you did not know the Canadian forces do not usually use Land Rovers in military service. More later, Rgds Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 18:51:17 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Sender: "UncleBrad" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 19:42:11 EDT Subject: Compuserve owner needs help Status: RO Benjamin Newman of Florida just gave me a call & could use some assistance geting out to this group from CompuServe. I'm just about useless in that dept. since I usually just hit the "Reply" button that my software provided. His CompuServe address is 71773,3457. Thanks a million! Brad Blevins From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 7 20:21:00 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 18:12:25 PDT From: Vance Chin To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: protective underguard plates... Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I just found out that a Camel Trophy 110 is about 8 blocks away from my house today. In looking at it from both top and bottom, I noticed a nice protector plate in the front. It was 1/2 inch plate aluminum! It was pretty simple, it was just a simple rectangle with a bend in the front. Your hardest problem is going to be making this bend. Vance Chin Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 06:57:26 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 8 Jun 94 23:46:43 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Tailgates Content-Type: Text Status: RO bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) asked: > is it possible to replace the swing out door on the back of a 109 SW > with a tailgate (in combination with ??? for the upper half). And Dixon responded: >> Like most anything Land Roverish, the answer is yes, but with a provision If you have the original rear crossmember on there, it will be missing the two brackets that are required for the tailgate to swing on. Other than that, all you need to do is acquire all of the bits required.. I don't know of the situation down there, but up here the bits required for thehatch hat goes above are pretty rare. Tailgates are usually in pretty poor shape, though obtainable. The other part, well... >> Jim Pappas of the Bay State Rover club has been advertising a new upper tailgate lid for I believe about $450. If you can't find one used and cost is not a problem this could be a solution. Sorry, I don't have the number handy. I'm sure someone will post the number on the net if you don't already have it. The Bay State club number will reach him. Project update: I pulled the wings off my 88 last night and I'm beginning to cool off after allowing the second person (aside from myself) in 3 years work on the vehicle (front chassis leg replacement). Unfortunately the story isn't over yet but I hope to see it finished by the weekend. I've made some serious mistakes which I'll share with you once the job is finished. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From ccray Wed Jun 8 09:11:35 1994 Subject: CD-2 and saving money To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:11:35 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3189 Status: RO I go to my local Sinclair gas station 'cause it is two blocks away and they pump the gas and they are nice people to get to know. I have been doing business there for 15 years thru various cars. Their gas is always 2 or 3 cents per gallon higher but I rationalize that... So, the local gas station was charging $1.49 for lead additive two years ago when I first got Lulu running. You have to go on faith. The people say you need to use lead additive to protect the valves. But do you really? You don't find out till 10k - 20k miles later if it is right or wrong. So, you swallow hard and pour it in. Well, $1.49 was bad enough, but over two years it crept up to $1.69 and $1.79 and $1.99. It was getting tougher. At first I just threw in a whole bottle -- one bottle treats 20 gal, but what the hey. When it went over $2.00 I started putting in half and saving half for the next tank. Lulu uses about 10 gal or one tank per week. $100 per year at the $2.00 clip. I could save $50 a year by only pouring half in at a time. It kept climbing -- $2.29 and last week it went to $2.49. I said enough. As an aside, it is my understanding from MG magazines that my nolead 80 MGB had nothing done by the Abbington factory for nolead usage -- they didn't know for sure what to do. It now has 85k miles on the clock and runs -- well -- like a clock. In the midwest, a good place to get bargain auto supplies is Western Auto. I went down to Western auto last night looking to buy a couple dozen little bottles of lead substitute -- maybe get back to the $1.49 days if I were lucky. What I bought instead was a pint bottle of CD2 Stewart-Warner Alemite CD-2 Lead Substitute "treats 320 gallons" $6.29 plus tax. one ounce treats 20 gallons. I was so excited at the money I would save. That worked out to $0.20 for each tankful. I got carried away and bought two so now I can treat 640 gallons -- over a full year for $12.58 plus tax. This CD2 has a clever bottle. It is all moulded plastic. There is a cap for the main bottle. And moulded in the top is a small 1-oz compartment with a separate cap. There is a tube that runs from the bottom of the one pint compartment to the little 1-oz compartment. To use, hold the bottle upright, squeeze the main compartment. This forces fluid up the tube to the small 1-oz compartment. When the small 1-oz compartment is full, take the cap off of the small 1-oz compartment and pour CD2 into the gas tank. There is also a 1/2 oz marker and that is what I will use for my 10 gallon fillup. Someone here on the LRO net reported this product about 8 months ago and I filed that tidbit of information away into the deep dark recesses. And when I saw it at Western Auto, I knew immediately what CD2 was and that it came recommended. Saving money -- the more I drive the more I save... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From CXKS46A@prodigy.com Wed Jun 8 08:58:18 1994 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 09:51:06 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: protective underguard plates... Status: RO Perhaps the simplest approach is the Japanese one...buy one and then make three.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From ccray Wed Jun 8 09:18:37 1994 Subject: Re: More Spring Cleaning To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:18:37 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199406081357.IAA29461@smtp.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at Jun 8, 94 08:58:24 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1271 Status: RO Greg Hiner was bold enough to point out... > >Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special >order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at >parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there >any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? > A couple of years ago when I looked into getting my springs rebuilt, the shop said they put thin "teflon" strips between the leaves to promote flex and reduce wear. Maybe camber shims are some variation of this. The cost of their rebuild was too close to the cost of new, so I didn't take them up on their rebuild offer. Aside -- what I did do is take the springs apart, sand blast the leaves, paint them with 2-part $30 per quart epoxy primer, put in new bushings. Was that smart -- probably not. They are setting on a shelf in the basement awaiting the assembly of my rebuild 66 project car. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 09:23:37 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: CD-2 and saving money To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:11:35 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3188 Status: RO I go to my local Sinclair gas station 'cause it is two blocks away and they pump the gas and they are nice people to get to know. I have been doing business there for 15 years thru various cars. Their gas is always 2 or 3 cents per gallon higher but I rationalize that... So, the local gas station was charging $1.49 for lead additive two years ago when I first got Lulu running. You have to go on faith. The people say you need to use lead additive to protect the valves. But do you really? You don't find out till 10k - 20k miles later if it is right or wrong. So, you swallow hard and pour it in. Well, $1.49 was bad enough, but over two years it crept up to $1.69 and $1.79 and $1.99. It was getting tougher. At first I just threw in a whole bottle -- one bottle treats 20 gal, but what the hey. When it went over $2.00 I started putting in half and saving half for the next tank. Lulu uses about 10 gal or one tank per week. $100 per year at the $2.00 clip. I could save $50 a year by only pouring half in at a time. It kept climbing -- $2.29 and last week it went to $2.49. I said enough. As an aside, it is my understanding from MG magazines that my nolead 80 MGB had nothing done by the Abbington factory for nolead usage -- they didn't know for sure what to do. It now has 85k miles on the clock and runs -- well -- like a clock. In the midwest, a good place to get bargain auto supplies is Western Auto. I went down to Western auto last night looking to buy a couple dozen little bottles of lead substitute -- maybe get back to the $1.49 days if I were lucky. What I bought instead was a pint bottle of CD2 Stewart-Warner Alemite CD-2 Lead Substitute "treats 320 gallons" $6.29 plus tax. one ounce treats 20 gallons. I was so excited at the money I would save. That worked out to $0.20 for each tankful. I got carried away and bought two so now I can treat 640 gallons -- over a full year for $12.58 plus tax. This CD2 has a clever bottle. It is all moulded plastic. There is a cap for the main bottle. And moulded in the top is a small 1-oz compartment with a separate cap. There is a tube that runs from the bottom of the one pint compartment to the little 1-oz compartment. To use, hold the bottle upright, squeeze the main compartment. This forces fluid up the tube to the small 1-oz compartment. When the small 1-oz compartment is full, take the cap off of the small 1-oz compartment and pour CD2 into the gas tank. There is also a 1/2 oz marker and that is what I will use for my 10 gallon fillup. Someone here on the LRO net reported this product about 8 months ago and I filed that tidbit of information away into the deep dark recesses. And when I saw it at Western Auto, I knew immediately what CD2 was and that it came recommended. Saving money -- the more I drive the more I save... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 09:30:03 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: More Spring Cleaning To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:18:37 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199406081357.IAA29461@smtp.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at Jun 8, 94 08:58:24 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1270 Status: RO Greg Hiner was bold enough to point out... > >Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special >order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at >parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there >any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? > A couple of years ago when I looked into getting my springs rebuilt, the shop said they put thin "teflon" strips between the leaves to promote flex and reduce wear. Maybe camber shims are some variation of this. The cost of their rebuild was too close to the cost of new, so I didn't take them up on their rebuild offer. Aside -- what I did do is take the springs apart, sand blast the leaves, paint them with 2-part $30 per quart epoxy primer, put in new bushings. Was that smart -- probably not. They are setting on a shelf in the basement awaiting the assembly of my rebuild 66 project car. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 10:20:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More Spring Cleaning To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 16:06:42 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406081357.IAA29461@smtp.utexas.edu>; from "Greg Hiner" at Jun 8, 94 8:58 am Status: RO I've never heard of camber shims either.Quick and dirty?Well quick it isnt,but it certainly *is* dirty:-). I just jacked mine up as you said,and attacked the bushes with a hacksaw and hammer and chisel,'til they came out in bits and pieces.I was doing the back bushes,rear springs.Then put a mere suggestion of grease on the new bush,and whacked it in with a suitable sized socket,(or bit of tube,whatever),blocking the spring against the chassis with a lump of wood to stop whipping. Tip.When you buy the new bushes,roll them along the bench,and make sure the inner and outer steel tubes are concentric.Genuine Parts ones are,pattern spares arent necessarily.I put a set of non-gen in which lasted two months.I had two over and happened to do the rolling test almost by accident.Not only were they not concentric radially,the inner tube was on the slant,resulting in early failure whatever you did.The Gen Parts ones I replaced them with have lasted two years so far,and touch wood are still OK.I think they cost 10p each more than the pattern spares. Hope this helps. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 10:31:47 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: OVLR Birthday Party/ Road Trip East Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 05:43:14 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Graduation is but a few days away. I don't have a job on this coast and the Institute is kicking me out of Institute housing on Sunday, so it's time to pile all of my stuff in the Rover and start heading towards NJ. I have no time limit for driving, so I'm going to see a bit more of the country, specifically the northern part. From looking at the road maps, and looking at their claimed times for going from point at to point b (65 miles in one hour? In a Rover?!? 71 minutes (55 mph) is more like it), and then wading though all of the math, I've concluded that I can get to Ottowa in time to play in the mud with the Ottowa Rover crowd. (Asssuming I can find a dry place to stash my stuff--TVs and computers don't like mud). My 3800 mile trip is tentativly planned to start in LA, end up in Seattle two days later. If I can making from Seattle to Helena, Monatana in one (really) long day, I'll stop by and have a few beers with Roy (Roy, will you be around on Tuesday, 14 June?) Pass through Fargo, ND, Duluth,MN, Cross into Canada ar Sault Ste. Marie and make it to Ottowa by Friday evening. So any advice on crossing into Canada and into the US by car? Any advice about customs? The only hard part is going to fit all my stuff in the Rover... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 09:08:25 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 08:58:24 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: More Spring Cleaning Status: RO I have a 70 88IIa which has seen the last of its spring bushings. After the recent thread on springs I finally managed to get the truck in to have a spring shop look it over (bushing work seems like a real pain in the ass - but maybe I will change my mind). Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? I have also looked at the instructions for removing springs in the Haynes and LR manuals. Do you really need to support the axle and frame on stands or can you just raise the frame high enough so there is no weight on the springs and then just chock the wheel on the axle (to keep the axle from moving)? Well perhaps before I ramble on with questions could somebody give me the quick and dirty about how they have done it? Also I have started another section on the RoverWeb called LRO Tidbits which contains some of the items that I have seen on the list that I thought were particularly helpful. Please send me any others that I have missed. Best - Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 10:37:16 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Cav 100 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 07 Jun 94 19:39:37 PDT." Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 05:18:50 PDT Status: RO In message you write: > The Canadian Armed forces have bought 3 Land Rover 110 CAV 100 vehicles. > These are armoured and are based on a 110 chassis cab and are fitted with > a package made by Courtaulds aerospace. The liason officers with the While writing a term paper that I turned in Monday (on Ocean Reconnaissance) I had to seach through the last few years of Jane's Defence Weekly. The 5 March 1994 issue had this article... [A photo of a an armored 100 with the the right front part of the engine compartment ripped off/bent back, the left front wing was a little banged up. Everything from the firewall back appeared undamaged.] The caption to this photo was: "CAV 100 (4 x 4) vehicle after suffering blast form land mine on the front right side in Bosnia. The three occupants were unhurt." "Armoured cars for diplomats" "The IK Courtaulds Aerospace CAV 100D light armoured vehicle has been selected by the French foreign Office to carry diplomatic personnel. The first vehicles were accepted following tests carried out by French police special forces and have been delieverd to the French Foreign Office. Two versions of the CAV 100D have been delivered to France the VIP and Escort, both based on the proven Land Rover Defender 110 (4 x 4) chassis. The vehicles will be used by French embassy personnel operating in various countries worldwide. Courtaulds Aerospace has built over 1000 light armoured vehicles on the Land Rover Defender 110 (4 x 4) chassis with the British Army the biggest customer. All CAV 100 vehicles use the Courtaulds lightweight composite armour material called CAMAC. The specially designed armour panels are moulded and assembled onto the vehicle to form a monocoque construction. The monocoque body is tough and strong and forms a security cell for protection against ballistic threats and a safety cell for protection from road accidents. The CAV 100 is used by a number of humanitarian relief organizations in Bosnia as well as news reporting teams. Experiance has shown that the CAV 100 gives protection from threats such as fragmentation from grenades and mines, high velocity ball rounds and blast with no behind armour effects, spall or splash." Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 11:26:50 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 12:08:01 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: for sale? (+my trip prep) Status: RO i keep thinking of playing around with weird gearbox arrangements. so, if i wanted to sell my fairey overdrive, how much should i ask for it? what about my transfer case? any suggestions on where to try and sell such items? update on preparations for cross-country drive: 1. got most of the bits for installing a second gas tank. i think i'll go buy a bunch of hardwarew today, and then (gulp) drill holes in my recently-new galvanised frame and mount the crossmember and throw in the tank. 2. Still unsure about a roofrack. RN's "normal" galvanised one cannot be had prior to my departure. They can supply their stainless steel unit, but it costs in excess of US$1K! DAP has a (relatively inexpensive) galvanised unit, but you have to drill the roof to mount it, and i hate giving money to DAP after all they've cost me. I faxed a query to Mereyside 5 days ago, but they never responded. Atlantic British is out of stock (although I was not inclined to buy their anyway... it was a pretty expensive for an unremarkable product) I would really like to get something from RN, since I haave a lot of credit built up under their restoration program (depressing as that is in its own way) and would like to avoid cash outlays at this time. RN also has a normal steel 109 rack that they can cut down to 88" size, but they are asking in excess of $700 for this (they apparently made it for some guy a couple years ago and never sold it). This seems excessive I tried British Rovers in VT, and a couple of other used parts sources to no avail. Anyone have any words of advice? I guess I can just UPS all my belongings and forego a rack, but a rack would be nice in of itself. I would be excited about fabricating my own, but I have very little time between now and when I leave, since I have to try and finish up a huge project at work prior to departure. 3. I am still considering carpet installation, radio installation, other amenities (BOSE active noise cancelling headphones? ;) -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 12:40:40 1994 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 13:31:49 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: T-Shirts Status: RO Okay sportsfans, here's the deal. I need to raise some capital for the club, but some of the club assets are illiquid right now (T-shirts sitting in a box). I've got a dozen...a couple of ex-large and the rest large. Haines beefy-T's in gray with pockets. Four-color club logo on the pocket, line-art IIa 88 rag-top on the back along with clever sayings. You can almost count the threads in the tie-rod ends, it's that detailed. $20 US covers return postage. First ten orders in the door takes 'em. First dibs on the XL's takes them, too. BTW, the *MAY* issue of LRO just arrived. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 12:34:12 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 13:24:07 EST Encoding: 198 Text To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: OVLR Birthday Party/ Road Trip East Content-Length: 189 Status: RO By my calculations, you and Jory are going to cross paths somewhere in the Rockies... What's this, the annual bicoastal Land Rover cross pollenation/migration event? :-) Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 13:41:36 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Sender: "UncleBrad" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 14:31:51 EDT Subject: Compuserve user still needs help Status: RO If you read the previous messasge, I was given a Compuserve address for Ben Newman who couldn't make his way into the net from Compuserve. I gave his address as 71773,3457. He just called & made a correction or two based on something he found in his manual... 71773.3457@compuserve.com Note the period instead of the comma. He is still trying to get out to us but no luck yet. Hope someone can help From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 15:50:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: OVLR Birthday Party/ Road Trip East In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 08 Jun 1994 13:24:07 EST." <9405087711.AA771107047@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 13:36:31 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO In message <9405087711.AA771107047@ccmailout.idcresearch.com>you write: > By my calculations, you and Jory are going to cross paths somewhere in the > Rockies... Should we drive a golden spike into the ground where we meet? :) > What's this, the annual bicoastal Land Rover cross pollenation/migration eve >nt? For me, its a biannual event. Ususally because I live with my parents for the summer and because the Rover is still registered in NJ. I also tend to drive instead of flying. Sophomore year: drove from NJ to LA and back in a beat up Datsun 510 Junior year: drove from NJ to LA and back in the Rover Senior year: drove from NJ to LA. Then drove from LA to NJ and back over Christmas break. All in the Rover. During the summer a friend and I took a 3 week vaction driving from LA to NJ and back in some Toyota 4 door. After Super Senior year I'm hitting the road again for my 10th cross country road trip and my 6th in the Rover. One of these days I'll drive only on back country highways. That'll be fun. Benajmin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 16:16:04 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: T-Shirts To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 17:09:09 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00821586.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at Jun 08, 94 1:31 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > Okay sportsfans, here's the deal. I need to raise some capital for the > club, but some of the club assets are illiquid right now (T-shirts sitting > in a box). I've got a dozen...a couple of ex-large and the rest large. > Haines beefy-T's in gray with pockets. Four-color club logo on the pocket, > line-art IIa 88 rag-top on the back along with clever sayings. You can > almost count the threads in the tie-rod ends, it's that detailed. $20 US > covers return postage. First ten orders in the door takes 'em. First dibs > on the XL's takes them, too. > > *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* > | | > | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | > | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | > | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | > *------------------------------------------------------* Twenty bucks for a tee shirt? Well, ok. SURE! Do I send my bucks to the above address? rd/nigel ps this 135lb body swims in an XL, best make it a L. pps are they all the same?? Just what *Do* they say on them? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 16:15:28 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: T-Shirts From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) In-Reply-To: <013.00821586.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 22:44:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO >Okay sportsfans, here's the deal. I need to raise some capital for the >club, but some of the club assets are illiquid right now (T-shirts sitting >in a box). I've got a dozen...a couple of ex-large and the rest large. >Haines beefy-T's in gray with pockets. Four-color club logo on the pocket, >line-art IIa 88 rag-top on the back along with clever sayings. You can >almost count the threads in the tie-rod ends, it's that detailed. $20 US >covers return postage. First ten orders in the door takes 'em. First dibs >on the XL's takes them, too. Hi, if it doesn't cost a fortune to send one to Italy, I'll take an XL. It will be my first Land-Rover t-shirt... >BTW, the *MAY* issue of LRO just arrived. I have just received this afternoon the June issue of LRO, but the May issue is still somewhere between here and England (if it has been shipped at all...) Bye, let me know for the T-shirt... Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 19:02:54 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Weird G/box arrangements To: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 09:22:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) In-Reply-To: <9406081607.AA10655@MIT.EDU> from "jory bell" at Jun 8, 94 12:08:01 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 848 Status: RO > > i keep thinking of playing around with weird gearbox arrangements. > > so, if i wanted to sell my fairey overdrive, how much should i ask for it? > what about my transfer case? any suggestions on where to try and sell such > items? What exactly do you have in mind for the gearbox?? A Company down-under makes a heavy-duty 5 sp. conversion that bolts up to the std. rover transfer case. The box is out of a nissan truck, has a nice low first gear and a high overdrive (0.78 I think) They are also reportedly almost bomb-proof. There name is something like MARK'S 4WD. I caqn chase more details if people are interested and patient. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Wed Jun 8 18:56:19 1994 From: Russell G. Dushin Subject: Re: CD-2 and saving money To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 19:58:29 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406081411.AA12898@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jun 8, 94 9:11 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Snipsnip > What I bought instead was a pint bottle of CD2 > > Stewart-Warner Alemite CD-2 Lead Substitute > "treats 320 gallons" $6.29 plus tax. > one ounce treats 20 gallons. > > I was so excited at the money I would save. That worked > out to $0.20 for each tankful. I got carried away and > bought two so now I can treat 640 gallons -- over a full > year for $12.58 plus tax. > > This CD2 has a clever bottle. It is all moulded plastic. > There is a cap for the main bottle. And moulded in the > top is a small 1-oz compartment with a separate cap. > There is a tube that runs from the bottom of the one > pint compartment to the little 1-oz compartment. To use, > hold the bottle upright, squeeze the main compartment. This > forces fluid up the tube to the small 1-oz compartment. > When the small 1-oz compartment is full, take the cap off of > the small 1-oz compartment and pour CD2 into the gas tank. > > There is also a 1/2 oz marker and that is what I will use > for my 10 gallon fillup. > > Someone here on the LRO net reported this product about > 8 months ago and I filed that tidbit of information away > into the deep dark recesses. And when I saw it at Western Auto, > I knew immediately what CD2 was and that it came recommended. This is the stuff I use, but I wouldn't exactly say I recommend it....I've yet to decide if it is doing any good. Recently, I reported the (downward) progress of my compression, and now I can say for sure that my guides are begining to go (I get puffs 'o smoke after letting Nige come to idle, then pump the gas). Also, when I had the sump off (to do the rear main seal) and was cranking on the hand crank I could *hear* the leak-down, and it wasn't mild leak-down to say the least. This is, of course, indicative of a need for rings (as was the moderate-to-good increase in compression readings upon addition of oil).....and may well have nothing at all to do with the additive (which as we all know is supposed to protect the valve seats), but me wonders if me rings are sticking because of it. It's thick stuff, that CD2, and I wonder how well it burns and what residue it leaves behind. Hence, I now add more Marvel than I used to, in the hope that it'll clean up whatever the CD2 leaves behind (and stuck on my rings). It is cheap, though, and goes a long long way. Next time you buy it be careful NOT to grab the bottle of "fuel additive" that looks almost exactly the same as the CD2. I made my way all the way to the register before realizing I had the wrong stuff, then had to search the shelves for what I was looking for. Finally did find five or six bottles buried deep beneath the other stuff (and bought it all). rd/nigel ps on another note, this brand new rear diff I recently bought from RN leaks like a sieve! Gets a tad on the warm side, too....am begining to wonder if I got one of those "10-days or 10-years" rear diffs that someone out there warned us about (could you please supply another warning with a bit of a clarification?? Mine is from a 109, supposedly.) ugh. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 09:40:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: "Jan Beckwith" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 08:25:12 +0700 Subject: T-shirts Priority: normal Status: RO Sandy: If you have an XL left I would like one. If not, after your description of the large, I could probably make do with a L. I will send a check today. JAN ---------------------------------------------------------- Jan Beckwith beckjan@elixir.isu.edu Idaho Drug Information Service (208) 236-4689 Campus Box 8092 FAX (208) 236-4687 Pocatello, ID 83209 Idaho State University ----------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 8 23:11:35 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 23:52:55 EDT Subject: LRO Mag Update Status: RO I just got my june issue, not to rub it in to people who have to suffer the italian mail system, but i seem to get mine within a week and a half of the beginning of the month, but ive probably doomed myself to erratic deliveries now Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine It's nice to see Land Rovers From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 04:05:11 1994 From: Dave Cattell Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:44:32 BST To: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Please remove me from list Status: RO Yes I know this should go to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com but my previous requests were ignored. PLEASE remove me from the list. Dave. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 09:24:46 1994 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 10:04:10 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: T-shirts Status: RO What a response! Say...that gives me an idea....I've got this piece of waterfront land in Florida I'd be willing to sell...such a deal! For those of you who want T-shirts, the address below is the club's mailing address (also mine). Make the checques out to the club or simply "R.O.A.V.". Only two of the XL's left; so far, Mike F. and Ludovico have spoken for them...state if you *CAN'T* wear a large. (I'm 6' and 205# and a large still fits after several washings). Ludovico- Airmail to Italy will cost an additional $4.33. Send me a check/money order/whatever in US funds for $24 and it's yours. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 10:17:09 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: CD-2 and saving money Date: 9 Jun 1994 15:02:18 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <199406082357.TAA00251@transfer.stratus.com>, Russell G. Dushin wrote: >Snipsnip > >ps on another note, this brand new rear diff I recently bought from >RN leaks like a sieve! Gets a tad on the warm side, too....am begining >to wonder if I got one of those "10-days or 10-years" rear diffs that >someone out there warned us about (could you please supply another >warning with a bit of a clarification?? Mine is from a 109, supposedly.) > >ugh. > If it was my quote about 10-day or 10-year diffs, I was referring to the singular diff supplied with 1967 NADA 109 6 cyl's. This was a positraction type ( a little too positive, me thinks) and is easy to spot. The carrier is different; the spider gears are enclosed. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 10:41:04 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Spring frame bushings. Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 08:27:27 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Howdy, I've been watching this thread on spring bushing replacement and thought I should weigh in on the subject as I just replaced all of mine. To put it bluntly, there is an easier way to do it. It just has one small catch, you need to have access to an air compressor. The way I managed after much cursing with hammer and hacksaw was to go down to my local department/hardware store, anyone who handles air compressors and related equipment, and for $16.99US, buy an air chisel. These little guys are for the do it yourself body mechanic who has some serious cuttin to do, they rip through sheet metal like a hot knife through butter. Anyway, these come with an assortment of cutting, munching, ripping implements, and the one that applies to our little bushing problem is the 1/2 inch punch. It's just a pointed spike, 1/2 inch in diameter and about 3 inches long, with a large shoulder where it mounts into the air chisel itself. All you do is get the appropriate bushing in position, (ie. unbolted, frame jacked up to let the spring hang neutrally, rotate the shackle out of the way) then take the punch/air chisel without its retaining spring and mount a 1/2 drive impact socket of the appropriate diameter over the spike so that the shoulder of the spike rests against the socket where the ratchet would normally be. Slightly smaller than the bushing outside diameter is perfect. Then lay it on the bushing, lean on it, and pull the trigger. In about five seconds the old bushing will be rolling on the floor. The spring may clamp onto your socket, no biggie just stack another smaller socket on it and use the air chisel again. The punch fits right into the inner bushing, acting as a centering guide for installing the new bushing, just use the same or SLIGHTLY larger socket to drive it in. Clean the spring or frame hole and put a light coat of grease in the hole and on the outside diameter of the new bushing before pressing it in. As you drive it in, friction heats things up and it expands the metal, causing things to stop momentarily. Just have a sip of an adult beverage for a minute till things cool down and the continue till its driven all the way in. Once I got the hang of it, I was able to do each bushing in 15 minutes, start to finish. 2 hours a night for two nights and I have all new bushings in spings and frame. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 72 Ser lll 88 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 07:54:38 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 10 Jun 94 00:32:31 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Springs Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg wrote: >> Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? I have also looked at the instructions for removing springs in the Haynes and LR manuals. Do you really need to support the axle and frame on stands or can you just raise the frame high enough so there is no weight on the springs and then just chock the wheel on the axle (to keep the axle from moving)? Well perhaps before I ramble on with questions could somebody give me the quick and dirty about how they have done it? >> Greg, Skip the camber shims (and that shop). The camber on a solid axle is non-adjustable. Theoretically the castor could be adjusted by using shims on the U-bolt plates to rotate the axle but the Rover manuals don't discuss this and you'd have to be pretty creative. Toe-in is the only alignment item you can adjust. The bushings are a press-out press-in affair (or burn out, hacksaw, hammer the living $#!+ out, then hammer the living $#!+ back in affair). You can leave the wheels on and support the frame. I have seen this done but Rich Zeigler formerly of ABP recommended that I do one wheel at a time, with jacks under the frame and supporting the axle with the wheel off. He said this makes the job much easier. Either way watch your brake lines. I've got 4 new springs in my basement and I'm debating with myself whether to visit Bob Fischer in Mechanicville NY, do the job right having new frame bushings pressed in or chance it myself. I can't make up my mind. If I do it myself I'll do one at a time removing the wheels. HMMM... if that quote for $110 included changing all spring AND frame bushings, that wouldn't be such a bad quote. Good Luck! Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 07:54:38 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 10 Jun 94 00:32:31 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Springs Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg wrote: >> Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? I have also looked at the instructions for removing springs in the Haynes and LR manuals. Do you really need to support the axle and frame on stands or can you just raise the frame high enough so there is no weight on the springs and then just chock the wheel on the axle (to keep the axle from moving)? Well perhaps before I ramble on with questions could somebody give me the quick and dirty about how they have done it? >> Greg, Skip the camber shims (and that shop). The camber on a solid axle is non-adjustable. Theoretically the castor could be adjusted by using shims on the U-bolt plates to rotate the axle but the Rover manuals don't discuss this and you'd have to be pretty creative. Toe-in is the only alignment item you can adjust. The bushings are a press-out press-in affair (or burn out, hacksaw, hammer the living $#!+ out, then hammer the living $#!+ back in affair). You can leave the wheels on and support the frame. I have seen this done but Rich Zeigler formerly of ABP recommended that I do one wheel at a time, with jacks under the frame and supporting the axle with the wheel off. He said this makes the job much easier. Either way watch your brake lines. I've got 4 new springs in my basement and I'm debating with myself whether to visit Bob Fischer in Mechanicville NY, do the job right having new frame bushings pressed in or chance it myself. I can't make up my mind. If I do it myself I'll do one at a time removing the wheels. HMMM... if that quote for $110 included changing all spring AND frame bushings, that wouldn't be such a bad quote. Good Luck! Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 11:18:29 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:04:08 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: jory@mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: for sale? (+my trip prep) Status: RO In message <9406081607.AA10655@MIT.EDU> jory bell writes: > i keep thinking of playing around with weird gearbox arrangements. >> > Anyone have any words of advice? I guess I can just UPS all my belongings > and forego a rack, but a rack would be nice in of itself. I would be > excited about fabricating my own, but I have very little time between now > and when I leave, since I have to try and finish up a huge project at work > prior to departure. > > 3. I am still considering carpet installation, radio installation, other > amenities (BOSE active noise cancelling headphones? ;) > > -jory > > When I moved from Seattle to the Monterey bay area, I loaded the back of my 88, pulled a smallish covered trailer and shipped everything else consolidated freight in old trunks. If you have semi indistructable containers, steamer chests, sturdy wooden boxes & the like, a nationally known freight company is a cheap way to ship unbreakables, and things you can pack very well. You can save big over a moving company and have less to carry. Stay away from fly by night carriers though, most may be good but I have heard too many horror stories with broaken & missing stuff and being unable to collect for damages. When packing your Land Rover, load the heavy stuff low. The higher you raise the centre of gravity the more unstable the LR will be on corners & cross winds. If your selling your overdrive, let me know the condition & the price you want. Have a safe trip, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From ccray Thu Jun 9 11:36:20 1994 Subject: Re: Spring frame bushings. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:36:20 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9406091527.AA12641@pdx242.intel.com> from "Mike Fredette" at Jun 9, 94 08:27:27 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1185 Status: RO Mike Fredette was bold enough to point out... > >Howdy, > > I've been watching this thread on spring bushing >replacement and thought I should weigh in on the subject >as I just replaced all of mine. To put it bluntly, there >is an easier way to do it. It just has one small catch, you >need to have access to an air compressor. The way I managed >after much cursing with hammer and hacksaw was to go down >to my local department/hardware store, anyone who handles >air compressors and related equipment, and for $16.99US, buy >an air chisel. For the springs, mine were off and I pressed the bushings in. For the frame, I welded up the equivalent of a c-clamp and used a 12ton hydralic jack placed on its side and pressed them in. Overkill, yes, but that was my solution. The air-chisel method sounds better for this occasional task... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 11:25:02 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 09:11:45 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: UncleBrad@aol.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Compuserve user still needs help Status: RO In message <9406081431.tn969702@aol.com> writes: > If you read the previous messasge, I was given a Compuserve address for Ben > Newman who couldn't make his way into the net from Compuserve. I gave his > address as 71773,3457. He just called & made a correction or two based on > something he found in his manual... > 71773.3457@compuserve.com > Note the period instead of the comma. He is still trying to get out to us but > no luck yet. > Hope someone can help > The dumb question about Compuserve. Since they charge $$$$ for connection time it is in their interest for people to connect as long as possible. As a commercial group, don't they have a help service for people who want to use Compuserve more? When in doubt contact your sysop TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 11:48:49 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Spring frame bushings. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 11:36:20 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9406091527.AA12641@pdx242.intel.com> from "Mike Fredette" at Jun 9, 94 08:27:27 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1184 Status: RO Mike Fredette was bold enough to point out... > >Howdy, > > I've been watching this thread on spring bushing >replacement and thought I should weigh in on the subject >as I just replaced all of mine. To put it bluntly, there >is an easier way to do it. It just has one small catch, you >need to have access to an air compressor. The way I managed >after much cursing with hammer and hacksaw was to go down >to my local department/hardware store, anyone who handles >air compressors and related equipment, and for $16.99US, buy >an air chisel. For the springs, mine were off and I pressed the bushings in. For the frame, I welded up the equivalent of a c-clamp and used a 12ton hydralic jack placed on its side and pressed them in. Overkill, yes, but that was my solution. The air-chisel method sounds better for this occasional task... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 14:36:14 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Subject: I sent this fellow a copy of the FAQ Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 15:27:34 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Don't know if anyone can give him additional details... Please be sure to CC him, as he is not on the list. -- Bill . ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: jahoff@heartland.bradley.edu Received: from lectroid.sw.stratus.com (lectroid.sw.stratus.com [134.111.10.1]) by tornadic.sw.stratus.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with ESMTP id CAA09638 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 1994 02:32:07 -0400 Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by lectroid.sw.stratus.com (8.6.4/8.6.6) with ESMTP id CAA26165 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 1994 02:32:04 -0400 Received: from bradley.bradley.edu (bradley.bradley.edu [136.176.5.10]) by transfer.stratus.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA10678 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 1994 02:31:59 -0400 Received: from heartland.bradley.edu by bradley.bradley.edu with SMTP id AA09505 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com); Thu, 2 Jun 94 01:31:57 -0500 Received: by heartland.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08487; Thu, 2 Jun 94 01:31:54 CDT Date: Thu, 2 Jun 94 01:31:54 CDT Message-Id: <9406020631.AA08487@heartland.bradley.edu> From: jahoff@heartland.bradley.edu (Janice Hoffart) To: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Reply-To: jahoff@heartland.bradley.edu Hi! This is Benjamin Freeman I'm to contact you in hope that I you will be able to network information that is greatly needed you can contact me at this address or my mailing addressee 6328-18th Ave. N.E., Seattle, WA 98115 (206)524-7473. Also!!! I at this time am in dire need of a complete 2-1/4 petrol engine there is a container leaving the UK soon I'm hoping that someone could be of help in both locating one and arrangeing the papers for it to be shipped if possible? HELP! But if not I'm still quite interested in buying and or trading spares, vehicles. I have a desire for a RHD will trade for? Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman via my fiancee's internet account. P.S. Please excuse my error's, I am using this computer for the first time and my fiance' is instructing me. - -- KRIZIA KRIZIA KRIZIA I'M BACK! Beware all you lame bbs geeks! hahahaaaha! ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 14:45:24 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: LROVER@U.WASHINGTON.EDU Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: Sale Items available In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 03 Jun 94 23:30:27 PDT." <01HD4FXQHLIQBESE2Z@MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU.L> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 15:35:01 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO forwarded: For Sale: '72-Series III alpine white, 88 well maintained, small amount of rust in the usual spots but easy fix. In great shape. Has Fairley OD 6 tires 15', owner asking for 7500 us $ OBO call at (206)733-4097 Bruce it's located in Bellingham, WA owner needs too sell Land Rover to make room for a sail boat. today's date 6/3/94. end *** From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 15:10:49 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: lro-digest Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 16:02:59 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Has anyone tried and not been able to reach or subscribe at lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com ? -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 18:03:07 1994 Date: 10 Jun 1994 10:42:05 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: lro-digest To: lro@team.net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >Date sent: 09 Jun 1994 16:02:59 -0400 >From: William Caloccia >Subject: Re: lro-digest >To: lro@team.net > >Has anyone tried and not been able to reach or subscribe at > > lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com ? > > -- Bill I've tried to sign up for digest with no response (automatic or other) If you subscribe to the digest, does it automatically delete you from the "live" listserver? Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 19:20:21 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Introductory Message To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 17:13:22 MDT Cc: lro@team.net, brabyn@skivs.ski.org In-Reply-To: <9406092332.AA06611@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jun 9, 94 4:32 pm Status: RO John, I also have a 91 RR and am looking for a way to carry extra gas. I have seen second gas tanks. bur am somewhat wary of all the extra plumbing. My latest thought is to install a real rear bumper and carring a couple of jerry cans there. I wm willing to put up with the tailgate interference. The last trip I put a 6 gallon marine gas tank on the roof rack. It only spilled a little. let me know what you come up with. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 18:57:24 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 19:29:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: More Spring Cleaning To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406081357.IAA29461@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO CAMBER SHIMS?????? Run AWAY Run AWAY!!!!!!! The camber shim is a device used to angle the vehicle in such a way as to cause money to fall from your pockets!!!!!....A camber shim,which you DO NOT need,is a simple wedge inserted between the spring and the axle to CORRECT the front axle camber....So why is it wrong????? It AIN'T!!! We use to shim out the bottom of the front axle tubes on the VW bug drag cars as at speeds in exccess of 100 mph, the aerodynamic lift on the rear of the car would cause the caster to go negative,which is the effect you get when you back up at high speed in any car....the car would get sideways due to the instability....the lift on a bug at 100 is nearly 75 percent of the weight of the (stock) vehicle when going foward,and increases to over 100 percent when presented to the air flow sideways....We're FLYING!!!!!! Somehow I don't think any of the above applys to the landrover...what with the power(?) to weight ratio and the areodynamics of a shopping mall...save your momey!!!!!! HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 18:38:19 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:32:39 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: Introductory Message Cc: brabyn@skivs.ski.org Status: RO Hi folks -- as a new member I just wanted to introduce myself. I have a 1989 Range Rover which takes me on off-road desert and ghost town exploring trips -- my other hobby is photography. I DO wave back! As a New Zealander now resident in the US, I was used to having Land Rovers as THE off-road vehicle for farmers and outdoors folks, and when researching all the available 4x4's in the US was unable to find any other make that is seriously designed for off-road use. When I got my Range Rover, other Land Rover models were still not available here. My truck is basically stock (as we all know, Land Rovers don't need the modifications others do in order to survive off the pavement), but I have installed such things as a CB radio and fire extinguisher and am about to install winches front and rear as soon as I can decide on the best mountings for them. I also carry, permanently stowed out of sight in the vehicle , the basics such as a full-sized shovel, axe, pick, pry bar, tow strap, and sundry spare parts. One question for which I would like a solution is a way to carry extra gas without resorting to the roof; it can be a long way between gas stations in the Calif and Nevada deserts and the Rover's thirst is prodigious. Anyhow, I look forward to exchanging messages and views with all of you. Regards John Brabyn Mill Valley California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 18:44:42 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:39:24 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: Brush bars Status: RO Does anyone know where to get hold of the bumper/brushbar sold as part of the Great Divide Edition winch/brushbar combination for Range Rovers? The dealers here seem only to be able to obtain the package as a combination. I assume the bumper is made by someone in the UK or possibly Australia. Any help would be appreciated. John Brabyn (PS if anyone knows of a used one that would be even better!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 18:05:55 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 15:59:03 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@stratus.com Subject: parts forsale Status: RO Jory, I could use some door lock mechanisms. Please mail me privately at Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com >maybe some door latching hardware (both ser III and ser II I think) -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 19:44:29 1994 Date: 10 Jun 1994 12:28:58 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: Introductory Message To: lro@team.net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) > (Stuff Deleted) >One question for which I would like a solution is a way to carry extra >gas without resorting to the roof; it can be a long way between gas >stations in the Calif and Nevada deserts and the Rover's thirst is >prodigious. Why not hang a couple of jerry cans off the back like the NZ Army does with their 110s? Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 20:06:21 1994 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 20:58:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: uncle To: landrovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO plz remove me from list From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 20:22:14 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 21:14:26 EDT Subject: Re: Parts, Parts, Parts Status: RO jory Will the door Tops fit a IIA? If so I'm interested. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine It's nice to see Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 20:47:14 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 21:40:15 EST Encoding: 697 Text To: lro@team.net, brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Cc: brabyn@skivs.ski.org Subject: Re: Introductory Message Content-Length: 676 Status: RO John Brabyn writes: > Hi folks -- as a new member I just wanted to introduce myself. > I have a 1989 Range Rover which takes me on off-road desert > and ghost town exploring trips -- my other hobby is photography. > I DO wave back! Hey John, welcome aboard. I'd recommend that you also consider joining the offroad net at offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu. Send your request to subscribe to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu. The offroad group discusses a variety of offroading issues, including what kind of winches to use, and how... BTW, you're in God's country when it comes to mountain bikes. So let me know when you need the location of the *bicycling* net! Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 04:10:58 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Grettir Asmundarson To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: lro-digest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Jun 94 16:16:14 MDT." <9406092216.AA08604@keflavik.wordperfect.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 05:01:09 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Ok, What should happen, is: IFF you send a note to lro-digest-request@uk.chunnel.stratus.com you get a reply from Majordomo (as below) Then you email a message to "Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com" with the body text (not subject) as subscribe lro-digest Then you should get a response from Majordomo that tells you that you are enrolled. I will also state that it was out of service most of yesterday, as I had to get a newer version of Majordomo with some fixes for a security problem. It has responded to my requests, but I have no evidence that it is working from the outside world. Please let me know if you encounter any other difficulties. The response time is typically a couple minutes + mail time, so you might get a response back a few minutes or tens of minutes, depending on your net connectivity. The digest itself is sent at about 8 am BST(/GMT) (3 am Eastern US). > Return-Path: lro-digest-request@uk.stratus.com > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 09:32:37 +0100 > Subject: Your mail to lro-digest-request@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com > Reply-To: lro-digest-approval@uk.stratus.com > > This pre-recorded message is being sent in response to your recent > email to lro-digest-request@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com. > > All routine administrative requests (including subscriptions and > unsubscriptions) concerning this mailing list are handled by an > automated server. Please read this message carefully to find the > information relevant to you. > > SUBSCRIBING > =========== > > To subscribe to lro-digest, send the following in the body (not > the subject line) of an email message to "Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com": > > subscribe lro-digest > > This will subscribe the account from which you send the message to > the lro-digest list. > > If you wish to subscribe another address instead (such as a local > redistribution list), you can use a command of the form: > > subscribe lro-digest other-address@your_site.your_net > > UNSUBSCRIBING > ============= > > To unsubscribe from lro-digest, send the following in the body (not > the subject line) of an email message to "Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com": > > unsubscribe lro-digest > > This will unsubscribe the account from which you send the message. > If you are subscribed with some other address, you'll have to send > a command of the following form instead: > > unsubscribe lro-digest other-address@your_site.your_net > > If you don't know what address you are subscribed with, you can send > the following command to see who else is on the list (assuming that > information isn't designated "private" by the owner of the list):o > > who lro-digest > > If you want to search non-privte lists at this server, you can do that > by sending a command like: > > which string > > This will return a list of all entries on all lists that contain "string". > > HELP > ==== > > To find out more about the automated server and the commands it > understands, send the following command to "Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com": > > help > > If you feel you need to reach a human, send email to > > lro-digest-approval@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 19:30:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Various From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 14:30:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO > Thanks all. Methinks that since I know my spline is nearly shot (on the > steering arm), and since this gives rise to some complete *free* play in > the swivel on the LH side (and this is _usually_ the side that gives me > trouble.....ie bumps on the left are worse than bumps on the right) that > I'm gonna go ahead and do this Railco conversion. Gotta be this weekend > if I expect to make the OVLR party, but it's now haying season and there's > work to be done............ Well, Ted and I are going to be trudging through the wood this weekend marking off all of the trails for the heavy and light off-road sessions. The agenda is very similar to the one that I posted earlier, althought there are a few minor additions. The cost of the event is going to be $15Cdn for adults, $8 for children. The club will be providing lunch and dinner on Saturday, as well as breakfast Sunday. Hopefully, the latest order from Merseyside will arrive before next Saturday and I will be able to get the little earth pig on the road as an extra mudding vehicle. This time, Dave Gregory at Merseyside says the complete parts list will be added to the shipment. We shall see... Rgds Dixon PS: Have leads on a couple more Land Rovers... :-) The home collection might just grow a wee bit more.... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 19:30:54 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: More Spring Cleaning From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 10:39:00 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > I have a 70 88IIa which has seen the last of its spring bushings. After the > recent thread on springs I finally managed to get the truck in to have a > spring shop look it over (bushing work seems like a real pain in the ass - > but maybe I will change my mind). They are a pain in the ass, but it can be done. BTW, The springs we pick up from the UK have the bushings in them. The only problem is getting the lousy bolts out. As per the bushing in the frame (top of the shackle on rear of the front springs) I have seen people cut the frame to get that out, welding it back together afterwards. Of them all, that is the worst. > Anyway they gave me a quote which included $110 for camber shims (special > order and all)! Now I have done most all the work on my truck and looked at > parts books and such and I have never seen camber shims before? Are there > any? Where do they go? Are these guys on the wrong page? Camber shims? Never seen, nor heard of these for a Land Rover and I have seen a fair number of Land ROvers taken apart. Considering they are not even in my parts manual, mentioned in the factory manual, I stay away from this one. > I have also looked at the instructions for removing springs in the Haynes > and LR manuals. Do you really need to support the axle and frame on stands > or can you just raise the frame high enough so there is no weight on the > springs and then just chock the wheel on the axle (to keep the axle from > moving)? Well perhaps before I ramble on with questions could somebody give > me the quick and dirty about how they have done it? Lift the vehicle at one end so the wheels are just touching the ground. Remove the four u-bolts on one side, remove the two spring bolts, . Remove spring. Replace with new spring, reassemble. Do the other side. Straight forward, though not necessarily painless. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 9 17:41:54 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 18:35:41 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: parts forsale Status: RO I have the following parts in my basement that i'd like to unload (sell): ser III heater core and blower unit (works fine) [i think i have all the pipes/hoses with this still] ser III door tops (steel) fairly good condition, replaced tracks 4 years ago, good glass, some rust/small hole on lower inside front. misc galvanised bits from an 88" bed (removed them from my 1974 bed when i did the frame up and replaced the bed) maybe some door latching hardware (both ser III and ser II I think) Prices are up for discussion! -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 10:22:58 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:09:52 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: More thoughts on bushings Status: RO The thread on bushings has often mentioned that getting them in (or out) is not a pleasant experience. Has anybody used the polyurethane (??) bushings. I have seen adds in LRO Int. from a couple of companies. The one I can remember is Bushwaka - which claims that you can hand fit the the poly part and then using a tool insert the inner metal collar which seats the bushing. Does anybody have any experience with these or similar bushes. They claim they last much longer. They are however more expensive. Best - Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 10:35:59 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More thoughts on bushings To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 16:23:29 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406101509.KAA22712@smtp.utexas.edu>; from "Greg Hiner" at Jun 10, 94 10:09 am Status: RO > > The thread on bushings has often mentioned that getting them in (or out) is > not a pleasant experience. Has anybody used the polyurethane (??) bushings. > I have seen adds in LRO Int. from a couple of companies. The one I can > remember is Bushwaka - which claims that you can hand fit the the poly part > and then using a tool insert the inner metal collar which seats the > bushing. Does anybody have any experience with these or similar bushes. > They claim they last much longer. They are however more expensive. > > Best - > Greg > > > Greg, No actual experience,I hasten to say,but I think that the tool costs a bomb,probably as much as the bushes.Well,p'raps not *quite* that bad,but I remember being somewaht shocked at the price quoted,so much so I've forgotten what the damn price *was*.I also seem to remember only one part number being quoted for the older Rover,which would indicate that you cant *completely* rebush with these.Having said that,they seem to have a good press. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 10:33:51 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 10 Jun 94 10:23:34 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: clutch problems Status: RO i ve got some really wierd problems concerning my clutch. last week i replaced the slave cylinder and seemed to solve the difficulties shifting into 1st 2nd and reverse. but yesterday during a long drive the problem came back so i double checked the slave cylinder for leaks and readjusted the pushrod to get the clutch to grip in the middle of the pedal throw. it seems that when the engine and transmission is hot i have these difficulties. do any of you have suggestions??? i really need some help in repairing this little problem. mechanically it looks like there is enough throw to disengage the clutch. this driving this morning and everything seemed o.k. althought it was cool out.besides the clutch slave cylinder what else is there when shifting from idle???? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 13:05:29 1994 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:32:46 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: T-Shirts Status: RO I've had five more orders than I have shirts to sell...so the first ones in the door will be the first ones to mail out. Fortunately, the printing turn-around time is but a day or two, so I'll have another dozen printed up. Incidentally, I lied...it's not a IIa, but rather a III, 88 full-tilt on the back. Sorry if you don't like the plastic grille (mine got replaced w/metal), but it is still a fine image. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 13:08:33 1994 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:58:19 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Clutch problems Status: RO I have been having similar problems with my clutch...and quite by coincidence, there was an article in May's LRO by some chap who calimed the pushrod on his Ser III clutch wore down by 1/2". The symptoms included erratic clutch performance, though the hydraulics and everything else seemed fine. The author fitted a new, longer pushrod and everything was AOK. First of all...unless he was dealing with a pot-metal pushrod, I cannot comprehend how 1/2" could wear away...unless he was working in a salt mine somewhere. If there are no leaks/lost fluid, there is but one other cause for problems...the clutch flex line on the backside of the engine...and here engine heat may be contributing to the problem. Works great when cold, but gets mushy and expands when hot. (Bruce at British Rovers suggested that.) I've just sent off an order for a new flex line...and I'm willing to bet $10 that that fixes the problem with my intermittent clutch. BTW, Charlie at RN passed along another tidbit for replacing the III pushrod without dismantling the bellhousing. The pushrod is held in the yoke by a plastic clip whose sole purpose is to fix it in place during assembly. Once mated to the slave cylinder, a retainer is superfluous. Charlie suggested dipping the end in Vaseline and freezing it. The stiff grease holds the shaft in place during reassembly. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 13:46:20 1994 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 14:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Subject: Re: clutch problems In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> Status: RO One very simple thing is to make sure the idle is not set too high. Then in the RN parts catalog they show the correct length of the slave cylinder push rod, from the boot to the nut. I believe it is 2 7/8", measured with an outside caliper. I haven't tried it yet so I can't get too technical. Others here can probably be of more help. later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 14:34:21 1994 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 15:28:51 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Clutch woes Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Sandy Grice wrote: >>> I have been having similar problems with my clutch...and quite by coincidence, there was an article in May's LRO by some chap who calimed the pushrod on his Ser III clutch wore down by 1/2". The symptoms included erratic clutch performance, though the hydraulics and everything else seemed fine. The author fitted a new, longer pushrod and everything was AOK. First of all...unless he was dealing with a pot-metal pushrod, I cannot comprehend how 1/2" could wear away...unless he was working in a salt mine somewhere. If there are no leaks/lost fluid, there is but one other cause for problems...the clutch flex line on the backside of the engine...and here engine heat may be contributing to the problem. Works great when cold, but gets mushy and expands when hot. (Bruce at British Rovers suggested that.) I've just sent off an order for a new flex line...and I'm willing to bet $10 that that fixes the problem with my intermittent clutch. BTW, Charlie at RN passed along another tidbit for replacing the III pushrod without dismantling the bellhousing. The pushrod is held in the yoke by a plastic clip whose sole purpose is to fix it in place during assembly. Once mated to the slave cylinder, a retainer is superfluous. Charlie suggested dipping the end in Vaseline and freezing it. The stiff grease holds the shaft in place during reassembly. >>> and Jon H. wrote: >>> One very simple thing is to make sure the idle is not set too high. Then in the RN parts catalog they show the correct length of the slave cylinder push rod, from the boot to the nut. I believe it is 2 7/8", measured with an outside caliper. I haven't tried it yet so I can't get too technical. Others here can probably be of more help. >>> couple of comments: I find that Nigel (and all other rovers we dushin's have owned) needs to idle quite low in order for one NOT to get some grinding (reliably NOT to get grinding, anyway) in 1st and reverse. Low, like somewhere in the 800-1200 rpm range (estimated).....nearly low enough for it to die. I have my idle set *extremely* low since: 1) above 2) the idle never seems to be consistant, and varies with the quality (or lack thereof) of the gas I use, and with atmospheric conditions, and with Nigel's mood. 3) I usually just end up using the hand throttle to find the idle adjustment of the day. as for 1st to 2nd, well, you just gotta double clutch since you ain't got no synchro dare. As for this pushrod length/wear stuff......surely, a push rod cannot really wear that much. I have begun to wonder, however, if it is possible that somewhere along the line a non-stock pushrod (eg one off of some other brit rig) could have been used in place of the original one. Nigel's *brand new* 9.5" (non-adjustable wrt the diaphram vs. the adjustable forks on the 9" clutch) clutch was recently installed, and even with the pushrod _fully_ extended (ie no more push rod adjustment left) the clutch pedal isn't felt until the slave is about half-way through its travel. (with the push rod return spring off it matters none-there is still plenty of slave travel left for the clutch to disengage, but if I replace the push rod return spring-which most of you do not have since LR dropped it in the early-mid 60's-then the slave is returned to the top of its stroke and the first push of the pedal only gets you _to_ clutch and not "through" it. I do wonder, however, if with the spring off my the collar on my withdrawl mechanism is resting on the spinning clutch and wearing needlessly.....akin to what happens if you rest your foot on the clutch at stoplights, etc.). Anyway, I have not (yet) measured the length of this pushrod (lame, I know...I was *just* there a week ago, it was in my hands) nor of those on our other rovers, but the thought has crossed my mind that the one in Nige ain't meant to be......it really is the only explanation (since I measured up the distance between the withdrawl mechanism throw-out collar and the casing with the cross shaft in the appropriate position and it was exactly the requied 11 mm.). On another note, and as an aside to the concept that your hose could be flexing (geeze, could it really flex *that* much??), have you checked to be *sure* that the pins connecting your cross shaft to your slave pushrod/lever ass'y are intact?? (Is this a SII/SIIa or a SIII?? If it is a SIII then me thinks you don't have these pins so ignore this.) There could be some slippage between the cross shaft and the push rod/lever ass'y that could get worse once things warm up.....just worse enough that you could get the problems you are having. I'd suggest *removing* the pins to be certain they are not sheared rather than just being satisfied with seeing that both ends are still there. good luck, rd/danige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 16:08:25 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Clutch woes To: dushinrg@primail.pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 17:00:59 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406101927.PAA00186@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Jun 10, 94 3:28 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO snipsnip your foot on the clutch at stoplights, etc.). Anyway, I have not > (yet) measured the length of this pushrod (lame, I know...I was > *just* there a week ago, it was in my hands) nor of those on our > other rovers, but the thought has crossed my mind that the one > in Nige ain't meant to be......it really is the only explanation > (since I measured up the distance between the withdrawl mechanism > throw-out collar and the casing with the cross shaft in the appropriate > position and it was exactly the requied 11 mm.). > Then again, there is always the possibility that my flywheel has been resurfaced one (or three) times too many.....someone out there in LRnetland suggested this to me awhile ago, and the concept evaporated from my brain when I wrote the above........it recondensed when I read it, though. Clutch sure feels nice, nowadaze. Time to tow the manure spreader up a steep hill fully loaded in low-low 3rd gear. funfun, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 10 19:51:18 1994 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 17:32:19 PDT From: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Subject: unsubscribe Cc: lro-request@stratus.com Status: RO unsubscribe unsubscribe me please. Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 edwang@up171.lsil.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 11 11:45:05 1994 Date: 11 Jun 94 12:31:57 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> To: all Subject: subscribe Status: RO subcribe lro digest benjamin g. newman orlando fl 71773.3457@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 12 12:14:07 1994 Date: 12 Jun 94 12:54:04 EDT From: "Roger L. Sinasohn" <72262.1540@CompuServe.COM> To: Land Rover Owner List Subject: Unsubscribe me... Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from this list. (I'll re-subscribe with my new Internet address.) Thanks! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 12 20:14:38 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Parts, Parts, Parts From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 15:45:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Spenny@aol.com writes: > jory > > Will the door Tops fit a IIA? If so I'm interested. 1995 edition Defender door tops will fit a IIA. They are all the same, though the 90 door tops are nice with both pieces of glass sliding. A bit pricy though... Rgds, Dixon PS Dale has his 90 tops hidden while he does his refurbishment... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 12 15:34:09 1994 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 15:24:33 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Springs To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406091242.IAA07420@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I agree with Bill that $110 to do the springs if it includes taking out the bushes is quite reasonable. I mentioned in my original reply that taking the bushes out is more than half the work in my opinion. We have been burning them out up here, because they just don't want to leave after ten years or more with salt et. al. on them. I notice from time to time that LRO advertises some nice nylon type bushes. Has anyone out there tried them? Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 03:14:17 1994 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 09:06:28 BST From: Peter Azlan Subject: unsubscribe. Apparently-To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from this list, it will take me longer than I thought to get the old rover on the road, and I cant keep up with the excellent mail for the timebeing. unsubscribe Regards Peter Aslan aka Captain Norton. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 07:13:27 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 13 Jun 94 23:56:13 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Clutch Woes Content-Type: Text Status: RO Russ responded to someone: >>> snipsnip your foot on the clutch at stoplights, etc.). Anyway, I have not > (yet) measured the length of this pushrod (lame, I know...I was > *just* there a week ago, it was in my hands) nor of those on our > other rovers, but the thought has crossed my mind that the one > in Nige ain't meant to be......it really is the only explanation > (since I measured up the distance between the withdrawl mechanism > throw-out collar and the casing with the cross shaft in the appropriate > position and it was exactly the requied 11 mm.). > Then again, there is always the possibility that my flywheel has been resurfaced one (or three) times too many.....someone out there in LRnetland suggested this to me awhile ago, and the concept evaporated from my brain when I wrote the above........it recondensed when I read it, though. Clutch sure feels nice, nowadaze. Time to tow the manure spreader up a steep hill fully loaded in low-low 3rd gear. funfun, rd/nigel >>> A couple of other possiblilities: If the clutch master cylinder has been replaced recently, the master cylinder pushrod may not be adjusted for full travel. The outer locknut should be almost to the end of the pushrod. Unfortunately, the only way to check this is to remove the wing or remove the mudshield, disconnect the master cylinder brake line, and remove the clutch master cylinder/pedal assembly complete. Next, undo the inspection plate at the top of the assembly (be sure to lubricate all pivot points at this stage because it's the only time you can ge at them). A friend had stopped by last summer with a disfunctional clutch and after checking everything else out we found this to be the problem (he had someone else replace the clutch master cylinder). As for engine heat affecting clutch operation, a swelling flex line is the best guess, a not so close second might be that the seals in the clutch master are just bad enough that when hot they allow the fluid to seep by. Good luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 07:30:42 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 14 Jun 94 00:12:39 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Gas Cans Content-Type: Text Status: RO Russel Burns wrote in response to John: >> John, I also have a 91 RR and am looking for a way to carry extra gas. I have seen second gas tanks. bur am somewhat wary of all the extra plumbing. My latest thought is to install a real rear bumper and carring a couple of jerry cans there. I wm willing to put up with the tailgate interference. The last trip I put a 6 gallon marine gas tank on the roof rack. It only spilled a little. let me know what you come up with. >> Russ & John, Sears has just begun selling auto parts via the catalog again, and in their first catalog listed a swing away carrier for the rear of a 4X4. As I recall there were 3 types: Tire carrier only, tire & 1 gas can, and tire and 2 gas gans. The cost was around $125-$175 I think. You would probably have to fabricate some brackets to make the assembly fit. As for the hassle of ordering via mail, if you don't feel it will work, just take it back to the Sears catalog store and they'll refund purchase and shipping cost. They're pretty good about that sort of stuff. Sorry I don't have the number. Dial 1-800-555-1212. Ask for Sears catalog phone #. Call Sears and ask for their automotive accessories catalog. Oh, the unit looked very nice in the catalog. I am toying with the idea of the universal mount unit for my 88. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 09:18:38 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:07:28 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: Springs Status: RO David John Place says >I agree with Bill that $110 to do the springs if it includes taking out >the bushes is quite reasonable. I would agree but this shop wanted $110 alone for a pair of shims - the whole job is more like $400 plus bushings!!! I think I'm just going to do them myself but I guess I'm going to need to block out a good chunk of free time. >ten years or more with salt et. al. on them. I notice from time to time >that LRO advertises some nice nylon type bushes. Has anyone out there >tried them? It looks like a full set of polyurethane bushes are around 120 pounds (though I'm really not too sure how full a set this is). Supposedly you can hand insert the bush and then - with a special tool - jam a metal sleeve in the middle that expands the bush so that it doesn't turn. The tool is around 20 pounds. It looks like a piece of all thread with a bolt on it that you tighten which forces the sleeve into the bush. They claim these last 4 to 5 times longer and are impervious to engine oils. This is all from the ad in LRO. (One of which list a stockist in California - but I'm going to be real surprised if they stock bushes for LR). My springs look fine at this point. They do have some surface rust but the truck has always been in the southwest so I don't think it is anything more serious than that. But they are original I think which means they have been on there for some 24 years - are springs prone to just suddenly breaking ? Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 11:52:47 1994 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 16:56:32 BST From: Peter Azlan Subject: unsubscribe. Apparently-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from this list, it will take me longer than I thought to get the old rover on the road, and I cant keep up with the excellent mail for the timebeing. unsubscribe pa@gx2.mdis.co.uk Regards Peter Aslan aka Captain Norton. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 11:48:33 1994 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 09:39:26 PDT From: "Lou Pendley" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Please unsubscribe me from the list Status: RO Thanks for the info. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 13:51:22 1994 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Gas Cans To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406131219.IAA01049@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO YA' know, I'd be worried about carting extra fuel where it could get hit...it is ok I guess to carry it on the back or front when off road,but when some goat roper in a chevy plows into you, you may want to have all the fuel out of harms way....as a firematics drill we would make a "pond" and fill it with water,pour on 5 gal. gas and used motor oil..light it with a fuse....!!!!!! you have to see it to belive it! Just 5 gals.! If you really really need the extra range, you should install a perminent aux. tank...should be a little safer...or switch to TDi power and double your range with the same tank!!!! "Fireball" steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 17:50:27 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Clutch woes From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:08:03 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > I have my idle set *extremely* low since: > 1) above > 2) the idle never seems to be consistant, and varies with the quality > (or lack thereof) of the gas I use, and with atmospheric conditions, > and with Nigel's mood. > 3) I usually just end up using the hand throttle to find the idle > adjustment of the day. I have the same problem you describe almost exactly, but with a slightly different set of starting points. First, I only ever use 92 octane petrol in the 109, with the exception when the Sunoco 94 is dropped in. However, beyond that items 2 and 3 is what I experience. What I have found is that the distributor shaft is badly worn in the 109. This is allowing it to wobble around, preventing me from properly tuning the engine. While one day it will idle and run like a dream, on others I have to use the throttle control to keep it alive. If lucky, I will be gathering up a distributor off of one on the five Land Rovers I have south of Ottawa this week (That and another front drive shaft) so I will not embarrass myself to much at the Birthday Party this coming weekend. Rgds, Dixon PS. It is generally considered rather dumb to go into wet forest with only two wheel drive. It took Ted and George quite a while to extract me Saturday... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 00:08:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Springs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 18:50:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > >ten years or more with salt et. al. on them. I notice from time to time > >that LRO advertises some nice nylon type bushes. Has anyone out there > >tried them? > > It looks like a full set of polyurethane bushes are around 120 pounds > (though I'm really not too sure how full a set this is). Supposedly you can > hand insert the bush and then - with a special tool - jam a metal sleeve in > the middle that expands the bush so that it doesn't turn. On my 88 we replaced the bushings with some made out of a block of nylon/teflon on a lathe. We just hammered them in. At least so far, they seem to be working quite well, and they are dirt cheap. Rgds, Dixon Oh well, off to beg Her Majesty's armed forces for a lot of tentage for the Birthday Party. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 18:54:02 1994 Date: 13 Jun 94 19:41:52 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: Greg Hiner Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Springs Status: RO Greg Hiner writes: > I would agree but this shop wanted $110 alone for a pair of shims - the > whole job is more like $400 plus bushings!!! I think I'm just going to do > them myself but I guess I'm going to need to block out a good chunk of > free time. You bet! It took me a long weekend just to get out the f.... bushings with the old burn out- saw-wedge&sledgehammer method. When you put in the new ones, DONT hammer them! They'll get stuck halfway in, won't go in any further, and you won't get them out again either. Make yourself a contraption with a screw-rod that goes through the center of the bushing, a 1/2" cut from a thick pipe, four nuts, and a pair of _thick_ washers, all of _really_ hard alloy, grease well, and _pull_ the bushing in rather than bashing it. Slightly beveling the ingoing edge of the bushing and some copper paste will also help. And most of all: Watch those fingers! > My springs look fine at this point. They do have some surface rust but the > truck has always been in the southwest so I don't think it is anything more > serious than that. But they are original I think which means they have been > on there for some 24 years - are springs prone to just suddenly breaking ? Only really badly rusted springs on vehicles that have been standing around a lot (rusted stiff) can break right through, usually at the front tip. Otherwise, it depends on their past life. Old springs on a vehicle that's been driven off-road a lot can be subject to a certain amount of material fatigue, but usually you will only have one layer snapping as a first warning. Check the spring for "cracks"; if the same crack appears at the same location on the other side, then you've got a broken layer. Anyway, I've never heard of a spring in satisfactory condition, however old, just snapping off like that. We've got a 1953 107" Station over here, all parts original including springs, and they're still ok. Cheers, Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@compuserve.com LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 18:56:45 1994 Date: 13 Jun 94 19:41:59 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Clutch woes Status: RO Dixon Kenner writes: > ... What I have found is that the distributor shaft is > badly worn in the 109. This is allowing it to wobble around, > preventing me from properly tuning the engine. While one day it > will idle and run like a dream, on others I have to use the > throttle control to keep it alive. If lucky, I will be gathering > up a distributor off of one on the five Land Rovers I have south > of Ottawa this week ... You can literally breathe new life into the wobbliest of old distributors with the "Lumenition" opto-electric ignition control that a british firm manufactures for Land Rovers. It fits inside your old distr., comes with easy-to-follow wiring instructions, and apart from giving you an impeccable timing that will never again need adjusting you can forget the gap - dwell angle - crap once and for all. It's also *supposed* to work miracles on the fuel consumption of old Landies. It doesn't come exactly cheap at approx. $ 175.-, but a new distr. won't be much cheaper, either. I don't have any more details, but if anyone's interested I'll check them out. Cheers, Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@compuserve.com LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 13 23:09:39 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 00:02:06 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) Status: RO i have rooted through my basement and have found the following i'd like to vend: (2) back-up lights with clear lenses and bulbs (these are rectangular and recess into the body) (1) red side marker light with both lense and reflector intact, as well as the rubber and chrome frame/trim (1) gas gap locking hasp (1) red tail light, looks to be an older style. looks to be missing some chrome trim piece -jory jory@mit.edu 617-253-8732 p.s. the early work of the gas tank installation is going along fine so far (undercoated the parts, got the mounting bolts/ misc hardware, marked out the frame, etc). however, i am debating the proper way to install 5/16"-18 steel rivnuts without the $200 installation tool (i have one method in mind but i question its utility). anyone worked with these before? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 00:56:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 00:07:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO On behalf of every body on this side of the big pond I would like to welcome stefan r. jacob to our Land Rovers by computer gathering. You will have noticed that we have recently picked up an Italian paticipant in the last weeks, sorry cant remember your name old chap. I think that this is great. I wonder how many others are out there in the woodwork but are just lurking/ I wonder. If somebody replies to my query on uploading material I have some real goodies for you folks. Must rush, Regards Robin Craig, Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 01:21:30 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 02:16:40 -0400 To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO a mixture of specific and possibly general interest info follows: Roy had asked about/expressed interest in some of my parts: Roy, >I will take the gas cap hasp and the older red tail light >and the red side marker light if it is a IIA type. Let >me know about price and all that jazz. I am pretty clueless about price, do you have any idea what would be fair? I don't think the red side light is a IIA (but am not completely sure), as it was off my III (and was either discontinued or so expensive i just replaced it with 110-style side lamps which are just some cheap thing you can buy in the US aprts stores anyway, since one of the two soriginal side-marker lamps was busted). It looks something like this bad ascii art: ************************************* * * * * * * * lamp * reflector * * * * * * * ************************************* The red tail light does look like a IIA style. Roy then addressed my rivnut query: >PS If I remeber correctly the rivets are aluminum and you will >need some sort of rivet set to peen the one side and< I can't >think of what it is called, but it sets over the formed head >and acts as the anvil with out crushing the head. I know of what you speak (I used that tool when i removed my bonnet-mounted spare carrier and filled the holes with solid rivets). Actually though, I was asking about Steel RIVNUTS (which are distinct from rivets). They are these rivet like things which you install like pop rivets, but you install them in just one piece of metal, and they form/provide a threaded hole (the inside of the rivnut is threaded). These are used to mount the new outrigger for the second gas tank (and they are steel and quite large, so you can't use a "normal" sized rivet tool, and would still need a rivnut adapter in any case). -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 07:14:48 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 08:05:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Gas tank bolt on Status: RO Hey Jory, I recently replaced my original tank and the rear support was really corroded so out it came. I had the pleasure of grinding the area flat before bolting on the new support. I used 3 bolts (I forget if they were 5/16 or 3/8) in an upside down triangle pattern. I passed the bolts thru both walls of the frame and backed the far/framewall-only side with large diameter washers because my frame is OLD and squidgy - not new like yours. While it does seem to be a robust "fitment" I am looking forward to a frame up on the beast in a year or two and don't think of my bolt on as a permanent thing. I guess we could hit our respective installs with a welder later? In an attempt to keep water out of the crevice between the frame and the new support I covered the frame-support area with silcone sealant before bolt on. Good luck with the rivets - how many of these things are you using? More on the England trip soon and it was great to meet Steve Denis and Bill Caloccia in person there. Well gotta go open up my carb and figure if it makes more sense to replace just the current reg on the alternator or just swap the whole thing for a new one so I can drive up and meet the Ottawa folks. John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 06:56:34 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 14 Jun 94 23:43:13 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Holy Halfshafts Batman!!! Content-Type: Text Status: RO I can't believe it! LRO normally takes 6-8 weeks to get here (NJ). I called Land Rover World last week for a subscription and the ***JULY*** issue arrived in the mail yesterday! And it does have more stuff on older Rovers. This month could easily be called "Lightweight World" for the amount of coverage given to Air Portables. Some good resoration stuff too, and the mag is much better polished than I had expected. Dixon and I had a conversation last night and agreed that LRO seems to be giving more coverage to newer vehicles than older Rovers and carries less restoration material. We also discussed that their level of customer service for their overseas customers is falling. Initially they seemed to go out of their way to serve and recruit non-Brits. But aside from what has already been said about delivery times, in their current advert for back issues, they state they are not available for overseas customers due to high postal rates. When I started my subsciption in 90-91, almost all the back issues were available, and they came in a couple of boxes two weeks after being ordered. Boy, have things changed. Thank you, Dixon, for the call. I really enjoyed it and especially since the net is my only source of LR communications. Except for Mr. Denis. Unfortunately 4 hours of Boom Boom Bill on the line with Fireball Steve runs to a third of my LRW subscription (yes Steve, I still have that 5 gallon red thing on the back of my 109. Fortunately air is not too flammable). Thanks for all who responded with Hi-Lift Jack mounting info. Roy especially. I installed it last night on the back of the seat base bulkhead. I used backing plates for strength and rubber shims (inner tube cut to shape) to prevent differential corrosion. The benefit of this location is that it's out of the way, out of the elements, and a little less tempting to remove than if outside of the vehicle. The drawbacks are that it's more difficult to get at (especially if your Rover's filled with luggage) and that it takes away your spare tire carrier. The mounting kit from Hi-Lift comes with two brackets and a small padlock. Now I've got one less item in my basement. That's all for now Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 08:17:28 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Gas Cans To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 9:12:07 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at Jun 13, 94 1:24 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > YA' know, I'd be worried about carting extra fuel where it could > get hit...it is ok I guess to carry it on the back or front when off > road,but when some goat roper in a chevy plows into you, you may want > to have all the fuel out of harms way....as a firematics drill we would > make a "pond" and fill it with water,pour on 5 gal. gas and used motor > oil..light it with a fuse....!!!!!! you have to see it to belive it! > Just 5 gals.! If you really really need the extra range, you should > install a perminent aux. tank...should be a little safer...or switch to > TDi power and double your range with the same tank!!!! > > "Fireball" steve.... > > > HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" > > Steven M. Denis > PO BOX 61 > Erieville,NY 13061 > > > > Hey Fireball- Guess it just comes down to whether you want the Pinto or the Chebby Truck effect! rd/danige (Railco's pressed into the swivel balls last night....all goes back together this evening after work, weather permitting.) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 13:07:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Clutch woes From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 10:42:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> writes: > You can literally breathe new life into the wobbliest of old distributors > with the "Lumenition" opto-electric ignition control that a british firm > manufactures for Land Rovers. I am familiar with this product. It is not only sitting on a couple of Land Rovers in the club, but is also rather popular with the British sports car crowd, many of whom have added this to their vehicles. 'its an idea, though grabbing one off a space is proably the most likely short term solution. Of course a diesel would be a better one... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 09:52:35 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:44:07 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: Gas Cans To: Steven M Denis Cc: maloney , land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO One of the best places to carry a pair of gas cans is on the roof rack (as I recall, the old _Guide to Land Rover Expeditions_ said that only water should normally be carried on front bumper carriers and I would tend to feel the same about anything on the back). Cans hanging off the front, back, or sides are very vulnerable and could make a minor accident into something that will be spectacular enough to easily make the evening news. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 10:01:17 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Rivnuts To: jory bell Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406140401.AA21444@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Page 166 of the Autobooks _Land-Rover Owner's Workshop Manual_ (Autobook 895) has drawings showing a nice way to install large rivnuts without a special tool. I can fax this to you if you want to email me a fax number. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 10:47:45 1994 To: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jun 1994 02:16:40 EDT." <9406140615.AA21867@MIT.EDU> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 08:34:50 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Jory, Why cant you just weld that outrigger on to the frame like the side holding your stock gas tank is. Just bolt the tank to your new outrigger, then fit the whole thing on as an assembly, bolting it to the rear outrigger, and holding the whole mess up in place with a floor jack. This way you're assured of getting it in the right spot. Then just tack weld it in several spots, unbolt and remove the tank, then finish of with a good solid bead around the whole outrigger. Paint it with some good quality primer and rust preventive paint. Then bolt your tank back in and you're done. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 72 Ser lll 88 Portland Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 10:50:21 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Clutch woes To: 100043.2400@CompuServe.COM (Stefan R. Jacob) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 11:35:52 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940613234158_100043.2400_BHJ36-2@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stefan R. Jacob" at Jun 13, 94 7:41 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > Dixon Kenner > writes: > > ... What I have found is that the distributor shaft is > > badly worn in the 109. This is allowing it to wobble around, > > preventing me from properly tuning the engine. While one day it > > will idle and run like a dream, on others I have to use the > > throttle control to keep it alive. If lucky, I will be gathering > > up a distributor off of one on the five Land Rovers I have south > > of Ottawa this week ... > > You can literally breathe new life into the wobbliest of old distributors > with the "Lumenition" opto-electric ignition control that a british firm > manufactures for Land Rovers. It fits inside your old distr., comes with > easy-to-follow wiring instructions, and apart from giving you an impeccable > timing that will never again need adjusting you can forget the gap - dwell > angle - crap once and for all. It's also *supposed* to work miracles on the > fuel consumption of old Landies. It doesn't come exactly cheap at approx. > $ 175.-, but a new distr. won't be much cheaper, either. I don't have any > more details, but if anyone's interested I'll check them out. > I am sure were are all (most of us, anyway) interested. please do. thanks, rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 10:49:03 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:41:09 -0400 To: Mike Fredette From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO > Why cant you just weld that outrigger on to the >frame like the side holding your stock gas tank is. Just >bolt the tank to your new outrigger, then fit the whole >thing on as an assembly, bolting it to the rear outrigger, >and holding the whole mess up in place with a floor jack. >This way you're assured of getting it in the right spot. >Then just tack weld it in several spots, unbolt and remove >the tank, then finish of with a good solid bead around the >whole outrigger. Paint it with some good quality primer and >rust preventive paint. Then bolt your tank back in and >you're done. > Rgds > Mike Fredette > mfredett@ichips.intel.com > 72 Ser lll 88 > Portland Oregon two problems with welding: 1) i have to pay somene to do it 2) the welders i know are unexcited about welding to my galvanised frame 3) i tilt towards doing less "damage" to the galvanised frame so the job would be more reversible (i usually try to think of future owners and their frustration at seeing some repair/retrofit they can't esily undo). -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 13:08:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Updated OVLR Events List From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 11:54:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO June 18-19th: 11th OVLR Birthday Party! Annual Club Birthday Party at Doc. Dolan's in Almonte. What The annual light off-roading, heavy mud bogging OVLR camping party. The Birthday Party is a social occasion, a place to get together with people from all walks of life, people who share a common interest, the legendary Land Rover and its progeny. It is also an opportunity for those who wish to have some fun to try some rock face climbing, mud running, follow the leader into the middle of somewhere and the other silly things that you don't get the opportunity to do at home. Wher At Doc. Dolan's place in Almonte. There will be a convoy leaving from the Westgate Shopping Centre on Merivale and Carling at 8:30am Saturday morning. Alternatively, members can arrive for camping on the Friday evening, or drive up on their own. Camping will be around to the left side towards the glen when you enter the field. Directions: Take the Queensway (Hwy 417) west out of Ottawa. - Follow the 417 past where it turns into a single lane highway (Now it is Hwy 17). Continue down Hwy 17 for another ten kilometres until you get to a set of traffic lights. This is the Almonte/Carp exit. - Turn left onto Hwy 44 at the Almonte/Carp exit and continue 16 kilometres into the town of Almonte. - Continue through Almonte, over the river, until you get to the set of traffic lights at Hwy 15. There will be a Petro Canada station on your right. Turn right. - Continue down Hwy 15 until you see a sign for Bennies Corners. Turn left. - Continue down the dirt road until you get to a "T". Turn right. - Follow this road and take your first left turn, about 1/4 mile from the "T". Drive until you see the OVLR sign. Turn left and follow the trail to the upper fields. When: Tentative schedule: Saturday: For those of you who have not arrived Friday evening at the site, a convoy shall gather at the Westgate Shopping Plaza on Merivale and Carling, leaving at 8:30am to proceed up to the Birthday Party. 10:00 Everyone has arrived at the party site. 10:30 Brunch (Hot dogs & coffee) Noon Heavy off-road session. Lots of mud, bog, etc. For the heavy off-road, it has been suggested that vehicles that prove to be unable to perform on the trail, and die some horrible (overheating coil) & predictable (Honda wires) death will be towed into the woods adjoining the trail, thus allowing vehicles to get past and continue on. Vehicles that are moved off the trail will be fetched & assisted at the conclusion of the heavy off-road event. 4-7pm Social 7pm Dinner & Social (menu to be announced) Sunday 9:30 Breakfast 11:00 Auction hosted by Bates? Land Rover games, scavenger hunt for children... There will be a series of light off-road trails marked off for those who do not wish to coat great amounts of glorious image enhancing mud upon there vehicles. All children going on off-road events are wear either hockey or bicycle helmets while in the back of the Land Rovers. They do get bounced about a fair amount while shouting for us to get well and truly stuck. Individuals are to be reminded to stay off the off-road trails used by the Land Rovers. What As this is an off-road and camping event, participants are expected to bring along the necessities of survival, such as a tent, any chairs, cutlery, plates and extra food that they will require. OVLR will be providing the Dinner Saturday evening. For the brunch and breakfast, the club should be providing hot-dogs, eggs, et cetera. More news, and cost of the event, and what about the SAAB pull in the next newsletter. Cost: $15 for adults, $8 for children 5 -12 years, children under 5 are free. Monday, June 20th: General Gathering The general gathering will be on Monday, June 20th at 7:00pm at the Prescott Hotel on the east side of Preston Street a couple of blocks north of Dow's Lake between Carling and the Queensway. For consistency it was thought the meetings should be on Mondays regardless. Sunday, June 26th: OVTC Classic Car show in Richmond Ottawa Valley Sporting & Classic Car Show in Richmond What Classic & sports car show and flea market put on by the Ottawa Valley Triumph club and attended by the various car clubs in the Ottawa Valley. Each club puts on a display of three vehicles, the balance of the vehicles are lined up for the public to view etc. Where: Richmond Fairgrounds in Richmond south of Ottawa Cost: $2.50 a person, or $5 per family at the gate. Under 12 for free. Phone Dave Meadows or Dixon Kenner for more information. July 2-4th: Downeast VI Land Rover Rally Who: The trip is open to all interested Land Rover owners and friends. As Miles puts it: "At the annual Downeast we are inclined to avoid hill climbs, obstacle courses, treasure hunts, mud running, follow the leader into the middle of nowhere, and all the other silly things most Land Rover, Range Rover, Defender, Discovery and Rover car owners don't wish to subject themselves or their vehicles to. The Downeast is more a social occasion, a place to get together with people from all walks of life, people who share a common interest, the legendary Land Rover and its progeny. What Up to 100 Land Rovers at the Owl's Head Transportation Museum on Sunday the 3rd, including clubs and Rovers North reps. Described by the organiser as North Americas largest gathering of Land Rover, Range Rover, Discovery, Defender, and Rover cars, is a casual event featuring no off-roading at all. When July 2,3,4. Saturday features a BBQ by Lake Megunticook, to the west of Camden Hills State Park. Nominal cost for the BBQ is $5. From noon onwards boats and canoes will be available to muck about in. Evening camp at Old Massachusetts Homestead Campground (207) 789-5135. Campfires plus natter and noggin into the wee hours. Sunday is the main event with the Land Rovers lined up for display. For those who are not interested in Land Rovers, or grow tired of them (), the Transportation Museum will be open along with a large selection of historic aircraft flown down for the Transportation Museum show the same day. Contacts: For more information phone Miles Murphy at (207) 789- 5303. Monday, July 4th: Executive Meeting Monthly executive meeting at my lair, 27 Kelvin Crescent. Monday, July 18th: General Gathering The general gathering for July will take place at the Navy Mess on Victoria Island, starting at 7pm. July 23 Murray is planning a light off-road event. This will feature a road building session through the woods up near Carp. This is not an OVLR event as well as being a no children, no pets occasion. For more information please call Murray Jackson at 591- 0672 August: Overnight cross country event down the Calabogie Power Cut -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 11:17:14 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 12:08:35 -0400 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Clutch woes Status: RO >> You can literally breathe new life into the wobbliest of old distributors >> with the "Lumenition" opto-electric ignition control that a british firm >> manufactures for Land Rovers. It fits inside your old distr., comes with >> easy-to-follow wiring instructions, and apart from giving you an impeccable >> timing that will never again need adjusting you can forget the gap - dwell >> angle - crap once and for all. It's also *supposed* to work miracles on the >> fuel consumption of old Landies. It doesn't come exactly cheap at approx. >> $ 175.-, but a new distr. won't be much cheaper, either. I don't have any >> more details, but if anyone's interested I'll check them out. >> > >I am sure were are all (most of us, anyway) interested. please do. >thanks, My "never ending story" Rover, which should have rolled into the Roverworks shop to begin actual assembly yesterday, will have a Lumenation ignition. Assuming (bad mistake, I know) I take delivery within this millenia I'll post my "for what it's worth" once I've formed an opinion. Of course I won't really have a basis for comparison, but I might be able to answer some specific questions. Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 13:06:42 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: LR From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 18:39:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO >Good day to you Ludovico, or may I call you Ludo? > >I was wondering where you live. Town / country , big town smalltown etc. > >Rgds > >Robin Craig > >Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Hi Robin, I'm quite new to the list, but it's the best thing I've found on the Internet so far.... I'm 28, I study Architecture at Milan Polytechnic (I will graduate in September). I live in Milan, Italy, you probably know where it is, it's in the northern part of the country, and it's the second biggest city in my country. I bought my Land Rover 6 months ago, it's a 1984 (last year of production!) SWB Series III Station Wagon, diesel engine. It's in good shape, apart from some minor problems (worn window channels and some dents in the body) and the usual oil leaks. I have not taken her offroad much, but I'm planning a long trip to Africa or the Mid East this winter, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about LR mechanics, and the list is great for this. I will go to the Land Rover Owners International show in Billing in July, will any of you be there? Bye Ludo _________________________________________________________ __________________________ |--------------------------| 1984 /____________________________\ Series III || || || 88 || || || Land Rover || || || Station Wagon ||______ ______||______ ______|| |______ / ______ \ ______| | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| | ||___|______|___|| | | | \__|______|__/ | | |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| |__________________________________| | | | | | | | | ____|____|______________________|____|___________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo via Serbelloni 8 - 20122 Milan, Italy ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it ________________________________________________________ --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 14:54:51 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 15:46:09 +0100 To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: Robertslab Subject: Re: Updated OVLR Events List Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Dear John Hong and Bay State Rover Owner Assoc. Hey, these Cannuks know how to use their Rovers! When is the BSROA going to schedule an event like this one, being held up in Canada? We should let Papas know about this event so we can try a similar event. -Brian Monks p.s. Does anyone know how useful a "Tread Lightly" membership is, in terms of getting helpful off-road maps? >June 18-19th: 11th OVLR Birthday Party! > >Annual Club Birthday Party at Doc. Dolan's in Almonte. > >What The annual light off-roading, heavy mud bogging OVLR camping > party. The Birthday Party is a social occasion, a place to > get together with people from all walks of life, people who > share a common interest, the legendary Land Rover and its > progeny. It is also an opportunity for those who wish to have > some fun to try some rock face climbing, mud running, follow > the leader into the middle of somewhere and the other silly > things that you don't get the opportunity to do at home. > >Wher At Doc. Dolan's place in Almonte. There will be a convoy > leaving from the Westgate Shopping Centre on Merivale and > Carling at 8:30am Saturday morning. > > Alternatively, members can arrive for camping on the Friday > evening, or drive up on their own. Camping will be around to > the left side towards the glen when you enter the field. > >Directions: Take the Queensway (Hwy 417) west out of Ottawa. - > Follow the 417 past where it turns into a single lane highway > (Now it is Hwy 17). Continue down Hwy 17 for another ten > kilometres until you get to a set of traffic lights. This is > the Almonte/Carp exit. >- Turn left onto Hwy 44 at the Almonte/Carp exit and continue 16 > kilometres into the town of Almonte. >- Continue through Almonte, over the river, until you get to the > set of traffic lights at Hwy 15. There will be a Petro Canada > station on your right. Turn right. >- Continue down Hwy 15 until you see a sign for Bennies Corners. > Turn left. >- Continue down the dirt road until you get to a "T". Turn > right. >- Follow this road and take your first left turn, about 1/4 mile > from the "T". Drive until you see the OVLR sign. Turn left > and follow the trail to the upper fields. > >When: Tentative schedule: > Saturday: For those of you who have not arrived Friday > evening at the site, a convoy shall gather at the Westgate > Shopping Plaza on Merivale and Carling, leaving at 8:30am to > proceed up to the Birthday Party. > 10:00 Everyone has arrived at the party site. > 10:30 Brunch (Hot dogs & coffee) > Noon Heavy off-road session. Lots of mud, bog, etc. For the > heavy off-road, it has been suggested that vehicles that > prove to be unable to perform on the trail, and die some > horrible (overheating coil) & predictable (Honda wires) > death will be towed into the woods adjoining the trail, > thus allowing vehicles to get past and continue on. > Vehicles that are moved off the trail will be fetched & > assisted at the conclusion of the heavy off-road event. > 4-7pm Social > 7pm Dinner & Social (menu to be announced) > Sunday > 9:30 Breakfast > 11:00 Auction hosted by Bates? > Land Rover games, scavenger hunt for children... > > There will be a series of light off-road trails marked off for > those who do not wish to coat great amounts of glorious image > enhancing mud upon there vehicles. > > All children going on off-road events are wear either hockey > or bicycle helmets while in the back of the Land Rovers. They > do get bounced about a fair amount while shouting for us to > get well and truly stuck. > > Individuals are to be reminded to stay off the off-road trails > used by the Land Rovers. > >What As this is an off-road and camping event, participants are > expected to bring along the necessities of survival, such as > a tent, any chairs, cutlery, plates and extra food that they > will require. OVLR will be providing the Dinner Saturday > evening. For the brunch and breakfast, the club should be > providing hot-dogs, eggs, et cetera. More news, and cost of > the event, and what about the SAAB pull in the next > newsletter. > >Cost: $15 for adults, $8 for children 5 -12 years, children > under 5 are free. > >Monday, June 20th: General Gathering > >The general gathering will be on Monday, June 20th at 7:00pm at the >Prescott Hotel on the east side of Preston Street a couple of >blocks north of Dow's Lake between Carling and the Queensway. For >consistency it was thought the meetings should be on Mondays >regardless. > >Sunday, June 26th: OVTC Classic Car show in Richmond > >Ottawa Valley Sporting & Classic Car Show in Richmond >What Classic & sports car show and flea market put on by the Ottawa > Valley Triumph club and attended by the various car clubs in > the Ottawa Valley. Each club puts on a display of three > vehicles, the balance of the vehicles are lined up for the > public to view etc. >Where: Richmond Fairgrounds in Richmond south of Ottawa >Cost: $2.50 a person, or $5 per family at the gate. Under 12 > for free. Phone Dave Meadows or Dixon Kenner for more > information. > >July 2-4th: Downeast VI Land Rover Rally >Who: The trip is open to all interested Land Rover owners and > friends. As Miles puts it: "At the annual Downeast we are > inclined to avoid hill climbs, obstacle courses, treasure > hunts, mud running, follow the leader into the middle of > nowhere, and all the other silly things most Land Rover, Range > Rover, Defender, Discovery and Rover car owners don't wish to > subject themselves or their vehicles to. The Downeast is more > a social occasion, a place to get together with people from > all walks of life, people who share a common interest, the > legendary Land Rover and its progeny. >What Up to 100 Land Rovers at the Owl's Head Transportation Museum > on Sunday the 3rd, including clubs and Rovers North reps. > Described by the organiser as North Americas largest gathering > of Land Rover, Range Rover, Discovery, Defender, and Rover > cars, is a casual event featuring no off-roading at all. >When July 2,3,4. Saturday features a BBQ by Lake Megunticook, to > the west of Camden Hills State Park. Nominal cost for the BBQ > is $5. From noon onwards boats and canoes will be available > to muck about in. Evening camp at Old Massachusetts Homestead > Campground (207) 789-5135. Campfires plus natter and noggin > into the wee hours. Sunday is the main event with the Land > Rovers lined up for display. For those who are not interested > in Land Rovers, or grow tired of them (), the > Transportation Museum will be open along with a large > selection of historic aircraft flown down for the > Transportation Museum show the same day. >Contacts: For more information phone Miles Murphy at (207) 789- > 5303. > >Monday, July 4th: Executive Meeting > > Monthly executive meeting at my lair, 27 Kelvin Crescent. > >Monday, July 18th: General Gathering > > The general gathering for July will take place at the > Navy Mess on Victoria Island, starting at 7pm. > >July 23 Murray is planning a light off-road event. This will > feature a road building session through the woods up near > Carp. This is not an OVLR event as well as being a no > children, no pets occasion. > For more information please call Murray Jackson at 591- > 0672 > >August: Overnight cross country event down the Calabogie Power Cut > > > >-- >dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 13:57:27 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:27:12 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) writes: > > Roy then addressed my rivnut query: > > >PS If I remeber correctly the rivets are aluminum and you will > >need some sort of rivet set to peen the one side and< I can't > >think of what it is called, but it sets over the formed head > >and acts as the anvil with out crushing the head. > > I know of what you speak (I used that tool when i removed my bonnet-mounted > spare carrier and filled the holes with solid rivets). Actually though, I > was asking about Steel RIVNUTS (which are distinct from rivets). They are > these rivet like things which you install like pop rivets, but you install > them in just one piece of metal, and they form/provide a threaded hole (the > inside of the rivnut is threaded). These are used to mount the new > outrigger for the second gas tank (and they are steel and quite large, so > you can't use a "normal" sized rivet tool, and would still need a rivnut > adapter in any case). > > -jory I have one of these tools, looks like a rivet gun, but it pulls interchangeable threaded rods to compress the " thread sert" or whatever, leaving a threaded plug. If you don't have many to do, just use a bolt with a nut threaded to the head, put the bolt into the "rivnut", wrench the nut down until it compresses the "rivnut". The aluminum ones are different than the steel ones. The aluminum ones form a lip at the top. the steel ones are more complex. The bottom part is cone shaped with grooves which breaks off and expands the top part. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 14:08:43 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 15:00:49 -0400 To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >> I know of what you speak (I used that tool when i removed my bonnet-mounted >> spare carrier and filled the holes with solid rivets). Actually though, I >> was asking about Steel RIVNUTS (which are distinct from rivets). They are >> these rivet like things which you install like pop rivets, but you install >> them in just one piece of metal, and they form/provide a threaded hole (the >> inside of the rivnut is threaded). These are used to mount the new >> outrigger for the second gas tank (and they are steel and quite large, so >> you can't use a "normal" sized rivet tool, and would still need a rivnut >> adapter in any case). >> >> -jory > >I have one of these tools, looks like a rivet gun, but it pulls >interchangeable threaded rods to compress the " thread sert" or whatever, >leaving a threaded plug. If you don't have many to do, just use a bolt >with a nut threaded to the head, put the bolt into the "rivnut", wrench >the nut down until it compresses the "rivnut". > >The aluminum ones are different than the steel ones. The aluminum ones >form a lip at the top. the steel ones are more complex. The bottom part >is cone shaped with grooves which breaks off and expands the top part. > >Dale Desprey the steel ones i have are the same as the aluminum ones you describe. is the rivet gun you use for these a normal sized gun, or is it larger? i was skeptical that just using the bolt/drilled nut method would work as well as using the right tool (and i am a little nervous about putting these things into my frame and having them spin when you are trying to insert or extract the bolt) what's your expereicne with threadserts in general. they seem so prone to rotation. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 14:46:36 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 15:36:14 EDT From: macelis@neb.com (Dana Macelis-Roberts Lab) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: test Status: RO Testing email address, please ignore this message... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 15:27:14 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Rivnuts To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 15:19:53 CDT In-Reply-To: <9406141859.AA07790@MIT.EDU>; from "jory bell" at Jun 14, 94 3:00 pm Status: RO jory bell said: > > i was skeptical that just using the bolt/drilled nut method would work as > well as using the right tool (and i am a little nervous about putting these > things into my frame and having them spin when you are trying to insert or > extract the bolt) > > what's your expereicne with threadserts in general. they seem so prone to > rotation. As an A+P in a previous life, I am familiar with rivnuts. "Rivnut" is a trademark, as is "nutsert". The generic term is "rivet nut". The single biggest problem with rivnuts is that they spin. Picture a bolt in a rivnut, just a little corrosion (between the bolt and the insert), and then needing to remove the bolt, but it just spins the rivnut when you turn it. How do you remove it? No known way of doing it without access to the back of the insert other than grinding it off. Drilling just spins it too. Sometimes you can use a sharp chisel to catch the insert head enough to hold it while turning the bolt, but not if something is on top of it... Argh, I've struggled with enough of them. There are only three solutions (and one partial solution): 1. Typical rivnuts can spin. There is available a "nonspinning" rivnut, which is exactly the same as a normal rivnut, with the addition of a little "tongue" or spline on the shaft under the head. You drill the normal hole, and then file or cut a small slot to hold the tongue, which keeps the rivnut from turning. As you might surmise, there is a special tool to clip the little slot for the tongue, but I've only ever used a small file to do it. These work *great*, and are very nice to use, except for the additional work to put them in. 2. Use standard rivnuts only for *permanent* installations. Ie, don't expect to be able to undo the connection in the future (unless you are willing to drill it out, like a standard rivet). Fine if that is what you intend. 3. Don't use standard rivnuts. Use bolts, or whatever. 4. Use standard rivnuts, and use plenty of antisieze on assembly. Great stuff, and you will have a decent chance (not a guarrantee) of future disassembly. Does it go without saying that standard rivnuts and thread locking compound are not a great idea for future disassembly? :) Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 16:25:11 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 17:04:35 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Luminition Status: RO Several folks have mentioned Luminition as of late. I have one thing to say...I fitted it six years ago *and havn't touched my ignition since.* That's about 60,000 miles worth. Fitment is straightforward...it takes longer to read/figure out the instructions than it does to do the actual work. The confusing part is a reference to a "ballast resistor" (which reduces the voltage to the coil after starting) which the Rover does not sport. Don't make the mistake of mounting the control unit up high near the coil...it's one of the hottest places in the engine bay. Mount the CU on a wing or out of the way somewhere to stay cooler. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 16:55:04 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 14:46:45 PDT From: "Lou Pendley" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO unsubscribe unsubscribe me please. loup@quests.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 20:15:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 19:25:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO WPCP 2BVPZ&Courier 10cp Roland Raven D%X@USUS2N#|x In my bid to inform you all more, I have loaded a copy of anarticle that concerns Land Rover Stamps. This article is currentlyawaiting publication at a prominent Land Rover magazine. Thismaterial is copyright and heaven help anyone who tries to lift itand reproduce it under their own name! Be warned I do not get even,I do better. Need I say more? LAND ROVER STAMPS BY ROBIN CRAIG For most people keeping a Land Rover on the road is enough of a challenge. I have always been interested in collecting Land Rover related items. I have a modest collection of around two hundredLand Rover toys and quite a library of pictures and press releases.At this stage I assumed I had seen it all! As usual I was proven wrong. A couple of years ago at the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Christmas party here in Canada, Terri Anderson introduced me to the world of Land Rover stamps. She and husband Tony are the owners of a number of different vehicles including a NADA 109" Station wagon, and both a diesel and a petrol 88". She had started her collection by asking Ottawa stamp dealers specifically for stamps depicting Land Rovers. Unfortunately the stamp dealers had no idea what a Land Rover was and consequently drew a blank. Terri, being persistent, set about scouring the stamp catalogues page by page, country by country. After alot of painstaking work she has so far found ten different stamps all bearing Land Rovers. This is only fitting really when you consider how much of the world has been influenced by this vehicle over the years. The constant factor in all of these stamps is the mobility that the Land Rover provides in getting a specific task done. Probably the earliest use of a Land Rover in a stamp was by Grenada in 1961 to celebrate the centenary of postal service. The vehicle depicted is much the same as one would have found in the UK doing the same work. The 88" hard top pickup was a great favourite with the British post office. In fact there was a series of postcards issued showing these vehicles at work, but that's another story in itself. The 10 cent Malaysian stamp shows what we believe is a mobile post office or perhaps a dispensary being run out of the back of a 109" hard top pickup. The hard top would have provided hopefully good shelter from the elements. The Red Cross commemorative stamps of Lesotho and Grenada show two different aspects of the charities work. Providing direct medical aid from a 109" hardtop pickup and loading aid aboard a Hercules aircraft in what Terri and I believe is a 109" or 110" forward control. Countries such as Kenya and Ethiopia have been linked with theTh)0*0*0*00TLand Rover marque right from the time it was invented. So it is hardly surprising that when the East African Posts & Telecommunications Corporation issued two stamps in 1977 depicting the Nairobi to Addis-Ababa Highway linking the two countries the 88" and 109" station wagons appear prominently. The island of Tristan da Cunha has long been a name connected with the world of philately. Infact the issuing of special stamps and first day covers has been the major source of income for this otherwise mainly agricultural economy. The long low stone house behind the Series 3 109" station wagon is typical of the houses on the island. Solidly built to keep out the wind and rain that lashes the island for much of the winter. Helping to keep law and order has been a big part of Land Rover sales over the years. The 109" vehicles shown in the Swaziland and British stamps are good examples of the work done in each country with Police forces. Just about every British force has used Land Rovers over the years. From rural police work to the City of London the Land Rover has been there to haul loads that would not go into patrol cars, such as traffic cones and diversion signs and barriers to the scene of a major traffic accident. I have left the Guernsey Bailiwick St John Ambulance Centenary stamp to last as it is my favourite and also it poses a number of questions. The vehicle is a Series 2 109" pick up with a truck cab used as a tractor with fifth wheel coupling to tow a trailer housing a Mobile Radar and Rescue Co-ordination unit. The stamp was issued in 1977 a good six years after the advent of the Series 3. So my first question is this, does this vehicle and trailer combination still exist? If not does anyone remember it and can they shed any light on its history? If it does not exist what has taken its place today? Presumably the coupling was similar to that used by the Racing commission in Britain to tow the starting gates behind the 88" truck cabs mentioned in the Slavin and Mackie Book, Land Rover the Unbeatable 4 X 4. Since seeing Terri's stamp collection I have started my own. Inthe hunt I have uncovered all the correct Scott's catalogue numbersfor the stamps and they are set out below. The Scott number is whatevery stamp dealer will ask you for. In addition I found a newstamp featuring a Land Rover 90. Beside it is another tab that hasthe company logo on it. Quite a find! I have also come to appreciate the world of stamp collecting andtheir ways. Most of these stamps are part of a commemorative set ofsay four stamps. Dealers will only sell you the four. they will notsplit them up, unless they only have the one to start with. The stamps are quite cheap, a set of four can cost you about$2.00 CDN. It is great fun looking for them. I am still looking fora few myself and the number in brackets indicates how many I moreI would like to acquire. If you run across some them please drop mea line and let me know what you have available. Th)0*0*0*00TMALAYSIA, RED 109 # 165 (6). GREAT BRITAIN, WHITE 109 # 875)878 (0) GRENADA, RED 88 # 187)189 (0). GUERNSEY BAILWICK, WHITE 109 #153*156 (0). LESOTHO, BROWN 109 # 195)198 (5). SWAZILAND, BLUE 109#281)284 (5). TRISTAN DA CUNHA, # 328)331 (3). GRENADA, 109FC?#395)398 (2). KENYA, 88 & 109 SW #94)97 (1). SAHARA OCCUPATIONR.A.S.D. WHITE 90 #153)158 (5). If you know anything more about these or any other Land Rover stamps please write to me at the address below. My thanks to Terri Anderson for the loan of the stamps. ROBIN CRAIG, 2821 H BAYCREST DRIVE, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, K1V 7P6 CANADA If you like articles like this then I'll continue to put stuff upnow that I have learned how to do this. rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 18:55:52 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 19:44:47 -0400 To: Mark V Grieshaber From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Rivnuts Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >1. Typical rivnuts can spin. There is available a "nonspinning" rivnut, > which is exactly the same as a normal rivnut, with the addition of a > little "tongue" or spline on the shaft under the head. You drill the > normal hole, and then file or cut a small slot to hold the tongue, which > keeps the rivnut from turning. As you might surmise, there is a special > tool to clip the little slot for the tongue, but I've only ever used a > small file to do it. These work *great*, and are very nice to use, > except for the additional work to put them in. I'll take what's behind door #1! Anyone have any ideas of where to source these "non-spinning" rivnuts? I've asked around a bit in Boston (I know the two good commercial hardware places from work) and they were clueless on rivnut details, variations, etc. Thanks. -jory p.s. Mark, what is an "A+P" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 19:47:53 1994 Date: 14 Jun 94 20:35:40 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: Robin Craig Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Message from Internet; welcome Status: RO > On behalf of every body on this side of the big pond I would like to > welcome stefan r. jacob to our Land Rovers by computer gathering. Thanks for the nice welcome, Robin, and sorry for just breaking in here without having introduced myself (I just get carried away when the topic "Land Rover" is touched): I'm owner of a good running 1973 Series III 109 Station, originally 6-cyl. petrol, then temporarily Perkins diesel, now plain vanilla 2.25 4-cyl. petrol. As my 'engine consumption' might suggest, I make heavy use of the old dog for extended trips within Europe as well as to North Africa and the Middle East. We also do a good deal of hard off-roading in disused US military compounds in our vicinity. It rarely ends without at least 2-3 vehicles having to be towed or trailered back. "We", that is the 'Land Rover Owners Club of Hessen' with "headquarters" in Wiesbaden/Germany. Presently I'm the chairman of this club, but with a bit of luck at our general meeting in two weeks time I'll be kicked out for a younger chap who can then take all the complaints, hassle, bureaucracy etc. so I can at last lie back and say "ok folks, what's up for the week-end?" Ah, yes... I'm twice the age of my 109 (now that's a hard one). We're 64 members presently, not counting wives, children and dogs. Like with every club, there's a 'hard core' of back-alley mechanics and off-road freaks within the club, plus a few 'desert foxes' with extensive experience from Africa expeditions and Sahara crossings. This group is made up of about a dozen people, including a single woman with an 88 who right now is busy replacing the pistons of her engine and having the cylinder head honed. Almost every summer she takes off to... Iceland, of all places, driving alone through the wild and deserted volcanic center of the Island where she's taken some breathtaking pictures. I guess that answers the question "can/do women drive Land Rover?". They can, if they're determined enough. Car-wise we've got an assortment of all models, from a 1953 107 Station fire engine to Range Rover V8 Efi. One of our committee members runs a Land Rover garage and repair, plus a parts mail order service. Anyway, though I'm doing the electronic messaging I have 60-odd other people behind me silently participating in the list. Therefore, like they say in the TV-commentaries: Not all I say here *necessarily* reflects my own views or expertise. TAFTF (short for "that's all for today folks"). Bye for now, stefan r. jacob <100043.2400@compuserve.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany ------------------------------ [BTW, Robin, I've got relatives in Toronto/Ont., two cousins. My uncle used to live there, too, but after he retired he moved to Washington D.C. because of the climate - too cold in Ontario, he said. - And what was that you said about uploading? I must have missed it.] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 19:50:38 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 20:37:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: Updated OVLR Events List Status: RO >Dear John Hong and Bay State Rover Owner Assoc. > > Hey, these Cannuks know how to use their Rovers! When is the BSROA >going to schedule an event like this one, being held up in Canada? We >should let Papas know about this event so we can try a similar event. > >-Brian Monks Well Brian, For off road driving there is definitely the 3rd Fall Heritage Event in late September. Also, an August event is being planned in Conn. at a member's place. However, do not expect either of these 2 events to be anywhere near what OVLR has graciously invited us to attend in terms of VROOOM, SPLAT and SPLASH. Jim should be back after June 26, give him a call - he'd be glad to get help. John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 20:03:23 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 17:53:54 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Sender: James B Russell Reply-To: James B Russell Subject: Re: Rivnuts To: jory bell Cc: Mark V Grieshaber , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406142343.AA25491@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO You can get the non spinning rivnuts at your favorite aircraft parts vendor -- well, maybe, though they are a pretty standard hardware item. You might try checking the Yellow Pages for aircraft hardware or parts suppliers. There are some aircraft hardware mail order places (for aircraft home builders) but it has been a long time since I have had any names, addresses, or phone numbers. One thing I have used is the Locktite stud and bearing locking compound (the really heavy duty stuff you don't normally want to get confused with the regular stuff 'cause you may never get the bolt out if you do) on the outside body of the Rivnut before you set it. This helps to improve the odds some. I liked the idea of antisieze compound too. BTW, I will fax that page to you in the morning as the manual is at home. Actually it is the drilled nut and wrenches thing but I have found it to work well on those Rivnuts larger than the ones for the standard pop rivet guns. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 22:18:04 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 22:07:20 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Springs To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406131406.JAA12977@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Are springs prone to sudden breaking. Well I have had it happen. They always seem to break just at the beginning of the curl where they go onto the eye. I guess they are heat weakened at this point when they are manufactured and after all the pounding they take, they simply give up the ghost. I was thinking more about taking out the bushing as I went to work today, and I wondered if anyone has tried heating the bush area and then putting dy ice on the inside of the bush. It is a trick machinists often use to put resistance fit units together. It might just be the trick for stuck bushes. Dave VE4PN That should be dry ice up above From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 14 22:48:26 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 22:31:22 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: more lr parts for sale (+rivnut question) To: jory bell Cc: ROY CALDWELL , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406140615.AA21867@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Jory A place in Winnipeg Canada called Princess Auto has the tool you want and it isn't any $200 range. It is like a pop rivet tool except it has a threaded attachment which screws into the insert you are installing. You install it the same way you would install a pop rivet but once finished you can put a bolt into the unit. The kit I say was about $29 and had perhaps up to 1/4 or 1/2 inch inserts with it. I was thinking of getting one to install the hinges for my inward facing seats on my 88. The phone number of the company which by the way has a catalogue and ships US is 1-800-665-8685. If that number doesn't work state side, try FAX at 1-800-265-4212 or phone 204-669-4252 I just checked the cataloge and the tool you want is $29.99 and is called a threaded insert installation kit. The size however is 1/4-20. They sell to manufacturing companies so they may have larger ones. Hope the info is of some use to someone if not to you. Dave Place VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 01:43:05 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 23:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: Subscription Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: LRO@Stratus.com X-Envelope-To: LRO@Stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"LRO@Stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hi! Fellow Roverites...I've so far very much enjoyed the wealth of information available to fellow LR owners. I would like to aquire a copy of that Land Rover FAQ It was very FAQ( a hard copy) would be wonderful. Also if I'm not allready subscribed please do..:) I'd like to begin by letting all know who I am. Ben Freeman I reside in Seattle, Washington U.S.A.I have a '73-SIII 88, it's Limestone in color It has won People's choice at the '93-All Brit Field Meet in Portland, OR U.S.A., But also it's a regularlly driven Rover to work daily. My fiancee thinks I'm in Love with it not her...hummm...possibly..I also have a Land Rover Trailer..it's constructed out of a 109 box bed and frame the top has panel sides an tropical roof..I'm painting it to match my SIII. Should be quite the camping rig..for extended trips..from the rear it'll look like one long LR. But to support my endeavor I'll part with some spares ares since most know that prices are CHEAPER in the old country. I'd like obtain a contact. :) Well, I hope that I've introduced well enough. But feel free to send to me. Either by phone (206)524-7473 or E-mail at LROVER@WASHINGTON e. Either by phone (206)524-7473 or by Email at LROVER@max.washington.edu Rgs Benjamin J. Freeman '73-SIII LRover@Max.Washington.edu P.S. I want a RHD...will someone trade me? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 08:43:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 08:05:22 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO For all of you socialites out there here is a snippet. Dixon is in love! Yes folks he is smitten with on of the opposite sex. Hope that does not cloud his Land Rover affairs. He says she is sympathetic to the marque and actually enjoys Land Rovering! Cant for the life of me remember her name, I'm sure Dixon will tell us all about it in due time! Congrats pal! Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 09:02:35 1994 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:53:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rivnuts Cc: Mark V Grieshaber , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO In this thread (no pun intended) about RIVNUTS I thought about my trusty McMaster-Carr catalog. So I said to myself, let's take a look. Sure enough on page 1839 of my antique number 91 catalog, under inserts and shoulder screws is The Rivet nut and blind rivet tool set. I won't write it all but the kit includes; riveting tool, rivet nut adapter, mandrel ejector spring, 7 mandrels, 4 nosepieces, 200 blind rivets, 10 each aluminum rivet nuts sizes 6-32,8-32,10-24,and 1/4-20,and 6 each 5/16-18 and 3/8-18. Plastic carry case included. net/set $84.89 Also above this are blind threaded insert kits. package quantities from $54.36 to $60.10 includes 100 inserts and setting tool. Description; one piece with nut and sleeve portions. Tool draws nut into sleeve. Installs flush Won't loosen under vibration. McMaster-Carr supply Co. P>O> Box 440- New Brunswick, New Jersey. 08903 Ph. 908-329-6666 That's all I knows, I knows no more. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 09:03:43 1994 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:53:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rivnuts Cc: Mark V Grieshaber , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO In this thread (no pun intended) about RIVNUTS I thought about my trusty McMaster-Carr catalog. So I said to myself, let's take a look. Sure enough on page 1839 of my antique number 91 catalog, under inserts and shoulder screws is The Rivet nut and blind rivet tool set. I won't write it all but the kit includes; riveting tool, rivet nut adapter, mandrel ejector spring, 7 mandrels, 4 nosepieces, 200 blind rivets, 10 each aluminum rivet nuts sizes 6-32,8-32,10-24,and 1/4-20,and 6 each 5/16-18 and 3/8-18. Plastic carry case included. net/set $84.89 Also above this are blind threaded insert kits. package quantities from $54.36 to $60.10 includes 100 inserts and setting tool. Description; one piece with nut and sleeve portions. Tool draws nut into sleeve. Installs flush Won't loosen under vibration. McMaster-Carr supply Co. P>O> Box 440- New Brunswick, New Jersey. 08903 Ph. 908-329-6666 That's all I knows, I knows no more. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 11:10:41 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: Rivnuts To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 10:52:27 CDT In-Reply-To: <9406142343.AA25491@MIT.EDU>; from "jory bell" at Jun 14, 94 7:44 pm Status: RO jory bell said: > > >1. Typical rivnuts can spin. There is available a "nonspinning" rivnut, > > ... > > I'll take what's behind door #1! > > Anyone have any ideas of where to source these "non-spinning" rivnuts? I've > asked around a bit in Boston (I know the two good commercial hardware > places from work) and they were clueless on rivnut details, variations, > etc. Thanks. I have bought them from ... let me think, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty, or was it ... er, sorry, their name escapes me (damn leaky organic brain) at the moment. However, I can look them up (with contact info) at home and post next week (I'm out of town the rest of the week). Seems I've also bought them from an industrial supply house locally (look under "bolts" in the yellow pages). One technique that works with these guys at the supply places when they don't know what you are talking about (after all, they only have to track 40 bazillion line items, right?) is to ask to see the rivnut catalog (or whatever catalog they order rivnut-equivalents from). The catalog will have pictures and specifications for all the variations, and then you can point to it. James Russell was on the right track when he mentioned using the heavy duty thread locking compound on the collar area (the "squish" area that does the clamping) of a standard rivnut before installing it; I've done that too, and it works pretty well (can be a bit of a mess if you goop too much on). Still not as good as the nonspinning kind of rivnut, of course, but pretty easy to do. > p.s. Mark, what is an "A+P" "A&P" stands for "Airframe and Powerplant mechanic", which means that I am approved by the FAA to work on both airframes (everything but the engine) and engines of airplanes. There are exceptions - propellers are special, as are radios and instruments (ie, I can remove and replace, but not open up an instrument or radio, or do other than minimal work with props). Getting an A&P was a restful year sabbatical for me. Nice to *not* have anything to do with computers for a change. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 12:12:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Stamps... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 11:57:03 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Nice message Robin, but you missed about six stamps... :-) Bill and I are busily working on a list which we will publish when it begins to look pretty complete. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 11:14:06 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Spring frame bushings. Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 09:03:37 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO ONE MORE TIME, I posted this once but since the thread is still alive, maybe some folks didn't see it the first time around. I'm tellin ya folks, this method WORKS GREAT and doesn't cost much more than the bushings. The air compressor is the only catch, but surely everyone knows somebody with a compressor. Anyway give it a whirl. Howdy, I've been watching this thread on spring bushing replacement and thought I should weigh in on the subject as I just replaced all of mine. To put it bluntly, there is an easier way to do it. It just has one small catch, you need to have access to an air compressor. The way I managed after much cursing with hammer and hacksaw was to go down to my local department/hardware store, anyone who handles air compressors and related equipment, and for $16.99US, buy an air chisel. These little guys are for the do it yourself body mechanic who has some serious cuttin to do, they rip through sheet metal like a hot knife through butter. Anyway, these come with an assortment of cutting, munching, ripping implements, and the one that applies to our little bushing problem is the 1/2 inch punch. It's just a pointed spike, 1/2 inch in diameter and about 3 inches long, with a large shoulder where it mounts into the air chisel itself. All you do is get the appropriate bushing in position, (ie. unbolted, frame jacked up to let the spring hang neutrally, rotate the shackle out of the way) then take the punch/air chisel without its retaining spring and mount a 1/2 drive impact socket of the appropriate diameter over the spike so that the shoulder of the spike rests against the socket where the ratchet would normally be. Slightly smaller than the bushing outside diameter is perfect. Then lay it on the bushing, lean on it, and pull the trigger. In about five seconds the old bushing will be rolling on the floor. The spring may clamp onto your socket, no biggie just stack another smaller socket on it and use the air chisel again. The punch fits right into the inner bushing, acting as a centering guide for installing the new bushing, just use the same or SLIGHTLY larger socket to drive it in. Clean the spring or frame hole and put a light coat of grease in the hole and on the outside diameter of the new bushing before pressing it in. As you drive it in, friction heats things up and it expands the metal, causing things to stop momentarily. Just have a sip of an adult beverage for a minute till things cool down and the continue till its driven all the way in. Once I got the hang of it, I was able to do each bushing in 15 minutes, start to finish. 2 hours a night for two nights and I have all new bushings in spings and frame. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 72 Ser lll 88 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 12:11:47 1994 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 09:43:41 PDT From: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO unsubscribe me please. I tried couple times and places in vain. Sorry. unsubscribe Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 edwang@up171.lsil.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 13:03:19 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Dixon's love To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 13:51:25 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at Jun 15, 94 8:05 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > For all of you socialites out there here is a snippet. > > Dixon is in love! > > Yes folks he is smitten with on of the opposite sex. > > Hope that does not cloud his Land Rover affairs. He says she is > sympathetic to the marque and actually enjoys Land Rovering! > > Cant for the life of me remember her name, I'm sure Dixon will tell us > all about it in due time! > > Congrats pal! > > > Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada > > Say it ain't so, Dixon ol' pal. Just how do you think you'll get that new 88 on the road now?? (Perhaps you can convince her, as I have my sig oth, to stand out in the rain and hold tools 'n bits for you while you grease yer knuckles.....hint: helps if you buy her a new Barbour!). Her name? Hope it ain't the same as Dale's "x-goulfriend"! justgivin'ushit, ('cause I know you can take it) rd/nige (who else?) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 14:16:53 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Clutch Woes To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 15:08:40 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406131202.IAA00676@transfer.stratus.com>; from "maloney" at Jun 13, 94 11:56 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Lotsa stuff snipped > A couple of other possiblilities: > > If the clutch master cylinder has been replaced recently, the master cylinder > pushrod may not be adjusted for full travel. The outer locknut should be > almost to the end of the pushrod. Unfortunately, the only way to check this > is to remove the wing or remove the mudshield, disconnect the master cylinder > brake line, and remove the clutch master cylinder/pedal assembly complete. > Next, undo the inspection plate at the top of the assembly (be sure to > lubricate all pivot points at this stage because it's the only time you can ge > at them). A friend had stopped by last summer with a disfunctional clutch and > after checking everything else out we found this to be the problem (he had > someone else replace the clutch master cylinder). did that, been there, done that. When I rebuilt the master (which was the first stop on this clutch woe road) I paid close attention to this adjustment. According to my manuals (Haynes and factory, neither of which are in front of me now) there should be something like 1/32", or thereabouts, of free play between the master push rod and the piston within the master. (This leads me to conclude that "bleed-back" of fluid back into the reservoir -ie past the check valve seal in the rear side of the master, rear when it is installed, that is-is normally supposed to occur. The check valve seal itself works perfectly once you've put a slight amount of pressure on the pedal, but if a) you releas the pressure, and b) you install the return spring on the slave push rod/lever ass'y, then the return spring pushes the slave pushrod/lever up into the slave, and fluid back into the reservoir.....the net result is, with this spring in place, a first pedal of fluid, and a second pedal's worth of travel of real clutch.) Again, there appears to be *nothing* abnormal about Nigel's clutch (his new clutch....no judder at all, adjustment seems ok) so long as this return spring isn't on. One solution would be to get a longer push rod (and I have not verified that mine is the proper push rod). Another would be what was originally (ie when I got him) done (by a previous owner), which was to put the slave cylinder up within (rather than on top of) the mounting bracket. This gives an extra 1/2" or so of "useful travel in the slave cylider" but it is a pain in the butt to get the slave in/out if this is done (requires removal of floors and removing the pushrod/lever ass'y whereas if the slave is placed on top of the bracket where it belongs then it *can* be done without either of these tasks). Rgds, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 16:56:07 1994 Date: 15 Jun 94 17:45:27 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Lumenition;ignition;timing Status: RO Russel G. Dushin asked: > I am sure were are all (most of us, anyway) interested. please do. >thanks Ok, here goes: The LUMENITION-OPTRONIC IGNITION (that's the proper denomination) is manufactured by Lumenition, Division of Autocar Equipment Ltd., 77/85 Newington Causeway, London SE1 6BJ, Great Britain tel: 44+ 1-403-4334 fax: 44+ 1-378-1270 When asking for info state the precise details of your car, e.g. model, year, engine + distributor type, voltage, possibly model and year of manufacture of distributor, and whatever else comes to your mind. Apparently there are dozens of variations, and the prices also differ considerably. I've just been told that the current retail price for a Lumenition fitting the french Ducellier 4-cyl. distr. costs a staggering $ 260.- Double that, and you've probably got the price for the V8 version... Oh well, I guess that's what patents are all about: inventing something, and then cashing in (courtesy of Bill Gates). Maybe we ought to invent a patent of our own. How about this one: A Land Rover gear box that *doesn't leak* (:-/) bye for now, stefan r. jacob, <100043.2400@compuserve.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 22:36:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Dixon's love From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 21:35:44 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > Say it ain't so, Dixon ol' pal. Just how do you think you'll get that > new 88 on the road now?? (Perhaps you can convince her, as I have my > sig oth, to stand out in the rain and hold tools 'n bits for you while > you grease yer knuckles.....hint: helps if you buy her a new Barbour!). The Barbour can wait for the time being. As for her, why don't you just get ol' Nige puttering up the road for a little mud. If the new Barbour worked such wonders on the sig oth, she will come along for the ride... So, like, Nige got what it takes to handle good, thick *Canadian* mud? :-) Rgds, Dixon PS, Our beer is better too... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 00:26:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:25:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO check list for ovlr birthday party:- camera with lotsa film to capture the innocent making fools of them selves, check. recorder to get the word for word, check. bug net, check, sense of humour, check. cash for lunch, better be good, check. strap on rear view mirror, shoulder type, to watch out for Dixon and Ted trying to run me over, check. Poncho, cos its going to p--- down on staurday, check. Shotgun for the famous rogue Almonte bear, what do you mean Dixon didnt warn you about this one, ask Bates about it! check. Anything else I should take, people? rgds Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 21:48:12 1994 Date: 15 Jun 94 22:34:11 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: RE:FAQ & Offroad sites Status: RO I have been trying to get on the LRO digest without much luck. I have tried the lro-digest-request@uk.chunnel.stratus.com without any success. Has anyone else been successful and if so how. I hope I am not violating netiquette by asking this -I am sure that it has been asked 10,000 times, but could anyone tell me how to access the LRO FAQ. I have been off the net on vacation for several weeks. Two weeks in California an not a single earthquake - how lucky can you get? At the risk of igniting 50 letters can someone tell me who got the two land rover toys? I am currently roverless as Rover is in Holland Michigan (390 miles away) undergoing $3,500 worth of refurbishment for the next six weeks. It was the closest place that I could find that knew the difference between a Land Rover and a Land Cruiser. When I get him back I plan to get his tires on some dirt. I live near Cincinnati OH. Some people have mentioned that some good offroading and camping can be found at the Red River Gorge in the Daniel Boone National Forest in KY. Has anyone ever offroaded in that area, and if you have, any suggestions or comments? Thanks Keith Steele 77126,1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 15 23:33:45 1994 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 23:25:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rivnuts To: Mark V Grieshaber Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406151552.AA13016@shute.monsanto.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I wonder if just drilling a slightly bigger hole than the bolt you plan to use and surface welding a nut to the frame wouln't be a better way to go than the rivnuts. I have noticed that some of the LR parts are held on this way and they seem to stay put. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 00:50:19 1994 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:43:23 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: Rivnuts To: Mark V Grieshaber Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406151552.AA13016@shute.monsanto.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Mark V Grieshaber wrote: > jory bell said: > > > > >1. Typical rivnuts can spin. There is available a "nonspinning" rivnut, > > > ... > > > > I'll take what's behind door #1! > > > > Anyone have any ideas of where to source these "non-spinning" rivnuts? I've > > asked around a bit in Boston (I know the two good commercial hardware > > places from work) and they were clueless on rivnut details, variations, > > etc. Thanks. > > I have bought them from ... let me think, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty, or > was it ... er, sorry, their name escapes me (damn leaky organic brain) at > the moment. However, I can look them up (with contact info) at home and > post next week (I'm out of town the rest of the week). Seems I've also > bought them from an industrial supply house locally (look under "bolts" in > the yellow pages). > > One technique that works with these guys at the supply places when they > don't know what you are talking about (after all, they only have to track > 40 bazillion line items, right?) is to ask to see the rivnut catalog (or > whatever catalog they order rivnut-equivalents from). The catalog will > have pictures and specifications for all the variations, and then you can > point to it. > > James Russell was on the right track when he mentioned using the heavy duty > thread locking compound on the collar area (the "squish" area that does the > clamping) of a standard rivnut before installing it; I've done that too, > and it works pretty well (can be a bit of a mess if you goop too much on). > Still not as good as the nonspinning kind of rivnut, of course, but pretty > easy to do. > > > p.s. Mark, what is an "A+P" > > "A&P" stands for "Airframe and Powerplant mechanic", which means that I am > approved by the FAA to work on both airframes (everything but the engine) and > engines of airplanes. There are exceptions - propellers are special, as are > radios and instruments (ie, I can remove and replace, but not open up an > instrument or radio, or do other than minimal work with props). Getting an > A&P was a restful year sabbatical for me. Nice to *not* have anything to > do with computers for a change. > > Mark > mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com > > > Yeah, Mark, Aircraft Spruce & Specialty is one of the ones I was thinking of and I believe there are a couple of others. Used to order bits of AN hardware from them (when I couldn't find what I needed at Boeing Surplus). When you get it, I would like to get their address again. Good catalog of interesting things. BTW Jory, if you use the Locktite stud and bearing locking compond on thee Rivnut, you should be sure to allow it to cure fully before you try to bolt anything into it. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 02:28:12 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: message sent Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO To the Roverite who sent me mail asking about saleability of LR here in Seattle, please send to me again. I've accidentally deleted it... sorry... Sincerely LROVER@MAX.WASHINGTON.EDU From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 04:44:53 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: thefrosh@sloth.ugcs.caltech.edu (Eric Hill) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Ben, Ottowa, and Graduation Date: 16 Jun 1994 09:36:52 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Keywords: ben smith, graduation, amazing, birthday X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #14 (NOV) Status: RO Hello, Ben asked me to post this here so that you all won't prematurely assume that he's dead and clamor to divide up his parts or anything like that. At any rate, Ben sends his regards, and regretfully states that he will not be attending Dixon's birthday get together in Ottowa. It's a long story, and I'm bored, so I'll give you the long version.... Snag #1. Well, you all probably know that he just graduated from Tech, just under the wire, but that's probably the way that he wanted it. Anyway, his parents, sister, and Grammy flew out from Jersey to see Ben off into the rest of his life. Graduation was OK. Just like every other graduation that has ever happened, Ben was even a good boy this time. Mom and Dad were happy and proud, but unfortunately it seemed that Dad's doctors original advice was right. Ben's Dad, being in his fifties, has been experiencing the normal shortening of the eyeball that comes with age, except that he is already extremely near sighted. Unfortunately for him, this means that his eyball became too M&M shaped for his retina, which already had a tear in it that his doctor in Jersey had been watching. Well, as fate would have it, after the cerimonies, Dad call the doctor at home to describe his new symptoms-- a large translucent bubble that is obscuring about half of his vision. The doctor, realizing that this is probably *bad* says that he should go to the hospital, now. So, mom and dad are off to UCLA, leaving Ben behind to wrap up stuff so that he can leave before noon, the next morning (last Saturday). Later that evening, about 8:00PM, there is a knock on my door (I living in Blacker Hovse with him, I'm sure that he has frothed about it at you all). Ben walks in carrying a giant bag of gummy bears asks me if I can give him a ride to a hospital on the UCLA campus. It seems that his Dad's diagnosis has gotten progressively worse over the course of the afternoon. The resident who mapped his retinas gave a 10 percent chance of him regaining full vision in both eyes. Certinly not the sort of thing that you want to hear a doctor saying about your best friend's dad.... The drive to the hospital was long and rather uneventful, as always trying to park at UCLA was no fun, but listening to Ben's mom while his dad was in surgery was even worse. The first sign of hope was the hospital itself, the Jules Stein Eye Institute, a rather impressive five story research hospital devoted to eye research and medicine. When we got there, there was not much we could do, Dr. Smith (as all the nurses refered to him) was already in surgery. As it was told to me, the resident discovered a tear in his good eye as well, so both would go under the knife. Still, things could have been worse, Dad had a meeting in New Mexico a few days later, and there is nothing comparable to the vastness of this UCLA building there. The estimated surgery time was about 2 1/2 hours, we had gotten there about twenty minutes into it, so rather than wait around to say hi, a came home. About one thirty, Ben came back to the hovse, and relayed what the doctor had told he and Mom after surgery, that his personal success rate for this operation is 95%, but some wierd bleeding in Dad's case took this down to 75%. He would miss the meeting, but probably keep the vision, Yeah! Snag #2 Luckily for Ben, he has relatives in Orange county, so Dad is staying there, but his departure was delayed by a day or two, to make up for the time that he lost in packing. Well, it seems that Ben under-estimated that amount of junk that he had in his room. So, getting his junk together took a day or two longer than he had expected. Looking at the pile of stuff that he had, I wonder how he crammed it all into that little 88" thing. He did it, though, so on to Snag #3 This is the other doozy. While checking the normal stuff under the hood, preparing to drive to his aunt Karen's house across the Orange Curtain, Ben noticed that plug #1 was carbon fouled, #2 less so, and #3 and #4 looked good. Curious, he decided to check the compression, upon double checking the compression, he concluded 50lb for #1, 110lb for #2, ~150lb for #3, #4. Not a good sign. The only problem is that the car was already mostly loaded, and running surprisingly well for 2 1/2 cylinders. So, since his aunt is only about 60 miles away, he decided to drive it down there, and work on it there, rather than at Tech, which had already booted him into the street. Well, I got a call from him this afternoon asking me to write this. He said that the exhaust valve holder (for lack of a better word) had become rather loose and the valve action was sloppy, so the vavles and seats were all bent to hell. Unfortunately, living in the states, Rover parts are not particularly common. British Pacific in Burbank, which is supposed to have better stock now, said that they might get the vavle seats on their next shippment, in two weeks. Rovers North? (in Vermont) was fresh out, too, although Friday is when they will be getting them. All this means that Ben's broken toy won't have the parts to be whole again until at least Saturday, more likely Monday or Tuesday. So, that's why Ben won't be anywhere near Ontario this weekend. If anyone wants to reach him, you'll have to use a (gasp) phone. Ben is going through withdrawl, no net in a week, like quitting heroin without the methadone. If anyone cares, his Aunt Karen's number is: (714)493-4307 Karen & bobber By the way, happy birthday, Dixon. Who old are you? Thanks for listening, Eric Hill thefrosh@ugcs.caltech.edu (but that's a different story....) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 13:04:20 1994 From: U91F02@MANADON-ENGINEERING-COLLEGE.AC.UK Via: uk.ac.manadon-engineering-college; Thu, 16 Jun 1994 18:27:30 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 18:28 BST To: LRO Subject: Hello Status: RO Hi, Cheers to everybody who saw my posting on british-cars and told me about this list. I thought I'd post and say hi to everybody on the list. I've had my 1976 series III Lightweight "Bertha" for just over 12 months now and i'm hooked! Owning a landy really is the fastest way to learn about motor mechanics. I jumped staight in at the deep end as my first major job was to change the piston rings and fit a Turner Engineering Unleaded Cylinder Head. I was amazed how simple Landys are to work on. As i've got used to the adaptable nature of the Landy I've become more adventurous. My last job was fitting an electric cooling fan. I diddnt want to pay #80.00 for a Kenlowe jobby so a quick trip to the local scrap yard had me kitted out with a Fiat Strada fan for #9.00. Fitting took took about 3 hours by the time I had made brackets. Now Bertha runs much quieter and a little bit warmer, therefore more efficiently. Before the temperature rarely got above the 74C where the thermostat opens. My next task is to do something about the gearbox. It keeps dropping out of 1st and 3rd on the overrun. I think it may be a loose mainshaft nut or weak detent springs. Also I have a major oil leak between the main and transfer box so it looks like new gasket time. If anyone has any tips/opinions on gearbox renovation I would be most grateful if you would share them with me as I am not looking forward to this job. TTFN Simon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- #=====# Simon Gair #=====# |___|__\___ ___/__|___| | | | | ===== u91f02@uk.ac.manadon ===== | | | | "'O'""""'O'" "Shine on you Crazy Diamonds!!" "'O'""""'O'" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 14:03:01 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Dixon's love & beer To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 14:51:44 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <06LZNc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Jun 15, 94 9:35 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85.2.1] Status: RO SNIP SNIP > new Barbour worked such wonders on the sig oth, she will come along > for the ride... So, like, Nige got what it takes to handle good, > thick *Canadian* mud? :-) > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > PS, Our beer is better too... Remember, we can by your beer too, probably cheaper than you can!! I'll get some local supermarket prices for comparison. ;-) Rgds, Tom From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 14:14:32 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 14:02:20 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9406161528.AA01311@keflavik.wordperfect.com> from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Jun 16, 94 09:28:26 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1117 Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson was bold enough to point out... >I've contacted 3 dealers on the list that Mike Rooth kindly posted >from LRO. Here are the results: > > Thanks for your update. I have my latest "aluminum workhorse" magazine at home -- spring 94. It is the LROA club newsletter. In that, a fellow from wales or scotland said (in a letter to the editor) that he wanted to serve as a buyers agent for people in the US looking for land rovers. He could send: -- cars as is -- parts cars -- cars partially refirbished -- don't have a spellchecker. -- cars totally refirbished. I had good intentions of writing him, but my Sig Other would simply not allow me to go thru with the transaction, so why waste his time. I will get his letter and post it tomorrow. Thanks, ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 14:48:18 1994 Date: 16 Jun 94 15:23:49 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: ludovico magnocavallo Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: re:Hi...; Billing Status: RO Tanti saluti Ludovico, hey, that's a cool ascii graphic you got there of your series III! Even the tropical roof is there. I think there must be quite a few european Rover owners on the net, especially from England, but they tend to be more the silent reader - downloader type, collecting information but reluctant to engage into personal communication. Also, telephone rates throughout Europe are generally several times higher than in the US which accounts for the restrictive use of their modems by computer users on the old continent. Sure, I know Billing. I myself won't be going there; I've already been to the ARC (Association of Rover Clubs) International Rally at Shottle, Derbyshire end of may, and in mid-july I've got an appointment with a bunch of crazy french offroad-nerds at the Ardeche. But I know for sure that our club secretary Guenter Schiebofski (don't bite your tongue on that) will be in Billing. You *could* go via Wiesbaden and join him from there onwards, although I think your direct route from Milano would be via Aosta-Lyon-Paris etc. I also must warn you that he's not pleasant company for a convoy. He's one of the Sahara freaks and has a somewhat different notion of distances than the usual European. He thinks nothing of getting into the car after work and drive to Cannock (Staffordsh./England) and back in 38 hours (including ferry)just to get himself a spare part. His vehicle is also fitted with extra tanks, so he'll drive through without stopping even once to refuel. On the other hand, if you need spare parts at a good bargain, you might want to stop by at the "Land Rover Center Rhein-Main" that he runs in Wiesbaden. That sounds very presumptious, but it's basically just a garage stuffed full with bits and parts from where he runs his mail order service for Land Rovers. He's got a phantastic assortment, however, based on 12 years of hard Land Rover experience, and chances are 10:1 that he'll have exactly what you need. The address is: Land Rover Center Rhein-Main Ludwigstr. 2, 65195 Wiesbaden tel: 49+ 611-372269, fax: 49+ 611-304136 Ok, enough advertisement (he doesn't pay me for it, believe me!), back to Billing: Have you got the registration form from LRO magazine? It's advisable to register and pay in advance as the event is always heavily frequented and the offroad events usually totally booked out if you register on arrival. It's different from the ARC Rally in that it's a lot more commercialized and heavily sponsored, and you don't have any of the hair-raising off-road speed competitions like at the rally. But it's great fun for the whole family, and there's loads of useful (and useless) stuff to buy for Land Rovers, so be sure to bring along sufficient amounts of euro-cheques. If you want to meet Guenter and his friends in Billing, ... have you seen the english TV-series "Catweazle"? Well, that's exactly how he looks. His car is a very conspicuous self-styled Defender 130 cab truck in Eastnor green with a huge shiny aluminium box in the back that makes it look like an oversized milk van (though some who know how it looks like inside refer to it as a pig rig). His number plate is WI-PC 844 (I think). Lets stay in touch anyway, we're bound to bump into each other at one of the Rover events (not with the Rovers, I hope); after all, Europe isn't _that_ big. So long, and have fun in Billing! stefan <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 14:39:19 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Canadian Brew To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu (thomas r. coron) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 15:33:47 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406161853.OAA15838@transfer.stratus.com>; from "thomas r. coron" at Jun 16, 94 2:51 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Dixon > > > > PS, Our beer is better too... > > Remember, we can by your beer too, probably cheaper than you > can!! I'll get some local supermarket prices for comparison. ;-) > > > Rgds, > Tom > ahhh, but they send us the watered-down stuff. A US bought Brador or Extra Stout won't do to you what a *real* Canadian one will. Take it from me, I've hurt myself in Canada before. BUT, as for this "Our beer is better" stuff, this is *now* a debatable subject. Perhaps we don't export our really good stuff (eg some versions of sierra nevada, anchor steams, catamount, or even slam adams for that matter) that has only come to market over the past five years or so (the widely distributed market at least). In the days of bud, michelob, rainer, and rolling rock you won hands down, but now.......sorry, you lose. gulp, rd/nigel (almost together.....rainstorm forced me in in the midst of reassembly the other night). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 15:17:05 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 16:07:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu (thomas r. coron) Subject: Re: Canadian Brew Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406161932.PAA18382@transfer.stratus.com> Status: RO Russell says; BUT, as for this "Our beer is better" stuff, this is *now* a debatable subject. So the question is; "IS CANADIAN BEER BETTER?" Inquiring beer drinkers minds, have a right to know!!!! I'M about due for a change of fluid myself. Forever curious Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 10:41:34 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 09:28:26 -0600 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Status: RO Here's an update on my quest to find and import (from the UK) a pre-1968 Series IIa 109" Station Wagon to the US. I've contacted 3 dealers on the list that Mike Rooth kindly posted from LRO. Here are the results: Land Rover Centre ------------------ A total wash-out. I sent a fax and received no answer, so after two weeks I called and was told that 109"'s were so rare in England that I was wasting my time looking for them. Still, I asked if they would be willing to contact me if they came across one and was basically told that now I was wasting their time. Keith Gott ----------- I faxed Keith Gott a brief description of what I was looking for and received the following in return: "Thank you for your Fax regarding a IIA 109 Station Wagon. We do source this type of vehicle for customers in America and can supply a vehicle either in "as is" condition or fully refurbished. Price for "as is" between L1,500 and L2,500. Fully serviced and checked over add another L500. A fully rebuilt/reconditioned one is approx. L6,500/L7,000. "Hope this information is of help. The transport cost to East Coast of USA is approx. L1000." This was much better than the L11,250 quote I had received earlier from Warwick 4x4 for their Pantywaist Uber-Rover. I sent off another fax asking for details as far as availability, delivery time, a definition of "fully serviced and checked," etc. I also asked about his L1,000 quote for shipping, since Sandy Grice had mentioned that a friend had Rovers shipped often to the US for about L500. I didn't hear from him for a few weeks, so I called. He apologized for not getting back sooner. He explained that once I gave him a description of the vehicle I was looking for he would go about trying to find one for me. He said that finding a 109" would certainly not be as easy as finding an 88", but that it was possible and that he does it all the time. He also said that for L2,500 he should be able to find a pretty decent vehicle. I asked about the possibility of having a new galvanised frame installed before having it shipped, but he stated that as long as I was having that done I should also have the springs, shocks and the like also done which would add enough to the cost to make it more cost effective to simply have the whole thing reconditioned. He stated that the L1,000 shipping quote was indeed reasonable and that the L500 quote that I'd seen was probably unrealistic and didn't include such things as transport within England, etc. I asked him what I'd need to do to get the ball rolling and was told that I would just need to send a L250 deposit and give him the word. If I don't go with Warwick's deal, this may be my best option. But does anyone have any experience with Keith or heard any comments about his operation? Warwick 4x4 ------------ As I posted previously, Warwick 4x4 had originally given me a quote for their Urban-Rover, which is a completely refurbished and poshed-up 109" Station Wagon. But at L11,250 it was way out of my realm of financial possibility. I sent a follow-up fax a few days ago inquiring into other, less expensive possibilities and followed that up with a phone call yesterday afternoon. I spoke with Graham Greensall, Warwick 4x4's Director and had a very pleasant phone call. He said that he would fax me another quote on a less extensively refurbished and altered vehicle, but one that still had enough work done on it that Warwick would feel comfortable putting their name on it. (Namely, a new galvanised chassis, etc.) I received the new quote this morning, and here's the scoop: Land Rover Series II/IIa 109" 12 seat Station Wagon Manufactured prior to 1968 2286cc Petrol engine suitable for unleaded fuel Four speed gearbox with selectable four wheel drive Partial refurbishment to include vehicle strip-down and rebuild on new galvanised chassis with new cupro nickel brake pipes, repair of bulkhead, and refurbishment or replacement as required of axles, brake system, springs shock absorbers, electrical loom, seatbox and rear tub. All new interior with sound-proofing, carpets, door trims and cloth trim seats. Total Cost to FB UK Port............L6,750 Optional Items: Reconditioned 2286cc Petrol engine....L625 Reconditioned Rover gearbox...........L495 New panels and complete repaint.....L1,200 If either the engine or gearbox options where chosen they would install a new clutch without additional cost. Well, at $10,015.65US this deal is not significantly better than the first. Add to that the $1,500 shipping and I'm $4,500 over my budget. But, sheesh, it looks like a great vehicle once everything is done. I'm interested in staying as "stock" as possible, so I still think I could do without the soundproofing and carpet, but otherwise it looks like it would be a dandy. Conclusions ------------ So, the question is, do I go with an "as-is" Rover from Keith Gott and remain within my budget, or do I scrape up the extra cash and have Warwick 4x4 build me a dream car? I'm still not sure. I don't know whether I can afford to go with Warwick, but while Warwick seems to be a well-respected outfit, Keith Gott is (so far) an unknown quantity. And are there any other firms in the UK that I should contact? Have I missed any other avenues? I would welcome any comments, criticism, etc. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 01:05:35 1994 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 19:14 BST-1 From: Martin Stoneham Subject: Visiting England To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Reply-To: mstoneham@cix.compulink.co.uk Status: RO Any reader wanting news about Land Rover activities in south east England is welcome to contact me at mstoneham@cix.compulink.co.uk for information. I own a County 90 V8 and regularly off road it with the Southern Rover Owners Club. My home is near Brands Hatch Motor Racing Circuit. Regards Martin Stoneham From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 16:30:52 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 19:29:52 EDT Subject: Downeast 6 Status: RO Downeast 6 -------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, July 2 & Sunday, July 3 Owl's Head Transportation Museum Owl's Head Maine -------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, July 2- BBQ starts at noon $5.00 in advance plus bring something to share Location: Fire road 67 on Rt. 235 between Rt. 105 & Rts. 52/173 Directions: Take 105 from downtown Camden and Rt. 1, Drive 5+ miles to junction of 235 turn right, 1/2+ mile to fire road 67 on right Rover parked at entrance. -------------------------------------------------------- Saturday Night Camping at the Old Massachusetts Homestead Campground 1-207-789-5135 Call for reservations -------------------------------------------------------- Sunday, July 4 Owl's Head Transportation Museum Owl's Head Maine 9AM till 4ish 100 Rovers expected Series I, II, IIa, III, 90, 110, RR & Disco. Military & Civil plus Airshow, Transportation Museum and Rovers North Winching Demo Land Rover North America Vehicle Display No entry fee if you arrive in a Rover All Participants will recieve a complimentary copy of Land Rover World magazine & A 20% off coupon for subscription. Rt. 1 to Rockland, Maine to Jct. 73 Rt. 73 S 2+ Miles to Museum -------------------------------------------------------- More Info & BBQ Tickets. Myles Murphy RR2 Box 11 Lincolnville, ME 04849 207-789-5303 or e-mail me: Spenny@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------- Pass this info on to a friend! -------------------------------------------------------- Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 20:24:14 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Canadian Brew From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 17:12:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > > > PS, Our beer is better too... > > > > Remember, we can by your beer too, probably cheaper than you > > can!! I'll get some local supermarket prices for comparison. ;-) > > > ahhh, but they send us the watered-down stuff. A US bought Brador or > Extra Stout won't do to you what a *real* Canadian one will. Take it > from me, I've hurt myself in Canada before. 'tis your brewing laws that keep you in sub-standard beer. Hmmm, according to John you have wimpy mud. You admit to wimpy beer. I wonder if a correlation can be drawn to see where the Aussies fit in... :-) BTW, we tend to get into brewing the stuff ourselves. You should see the price drop... > gulp, > rd/nigel (almost together.....rainstorm forced me in in the midst of > reassembly the other night). Still waffling eh... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 17:02:08 1994 Date: 16 Jun 94 17:38:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: Greg Hiner Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Lumenition Status: RO >What all does this system do? It basically does away with points and >condensors right - ie the low voltage end of things. The high tension side >remains the same - yes?? Precisely.- >What happens if this system failed - how hard >would it be to put a set of points and condensor in to get the car running >again. Well, Lumenitions do occasionally fail - rarely, though - under extreme thermic conditions (desert!). My (tested) advice: Get yourself a second inner base plate from a scrap distributor - make sure it's the exact same manufacture, compare it with the one inside your own distr. Now, *before* you start installing the Lumenition, get a new set of contact points plus condensor, install, and for a last time set the timing and tune the engine. Then remove the base plate together with the correctly set points and condensor on it (if you have a model with the condensor inside the distr., if not leave the condensor attached to the distr.), wrap it up nicely, preferably in wax paper to prevent rusting, and stow it dry and accessible inside the car somewhere. Fit the 'blank' scrap base plate into your distributor, and on that you install the Lumenition. Should the Lumenition konk out, all you have to do is remove the plate with the defunct Lumenition, put your original plate with the pre-set contacts back in, re-connect condensor, coil and suction pipe (in case it was detached), and off you go. The whole procedure shouldn't take longer than a refueling stop. Just take care you don't drop and lose those teeny-weeny screws that hold the base plate... BTW, if the ignition fails in a car fitted with Lumention you shouldn't *immediately* conclude that it's the Lumention; it could just as well be a burnt-out coil or a plain loose wire behind the dashboard. Do some extra checking before you tear apart the Lumeniton for nothing. Cheers, Stefan <100043.2400@compuserve.com> PS: Pity I can't access the RoverWeb. On which net is it, or is it a net of its own, or a mailbox or something? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 17:02:51 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 14:45:31 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu, tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, thomas@apple.com, r.@apple.com, coron@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Canadian Brew Status: RO In message Jon Humphrey writes: > Russell says; > > BUT, as for this "Our beer is better" stuff, this is *now* a debatable > subject. > > So the question is; "IS CANADIAN BEER BETTER?" > > Inquiring beer drinkers minds, have a right to know!!!! > > I'M about due for a change of fluid myself. > > Forever curious > Jon > Guys, Not that I have anything against having fun & such but my mailer gets enough traffic with the british car list without bubbling over with non-Land Rover related topics such as whose beer is better and who has a new girl friend and who wants which toy & such. It seems like a lot of the Land Rover group traffic these days is non Land Rover related banter. Any chance someone could start an alternate mail list for non land rover related banter? People seem to need and enjoy it and I think it should be supported. i just am not keen in seeing it in my mbox. The party pooper, TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 20:24:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Canadian Brew From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 18:22:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Jon Humphrey writes: > Russell says; > > BUT, as for this "Our beer is better" stuff, this is *now* a debatable > subject. > > So the question is; "IS CANADIAN BEER BETTER?" > > Inquiring beer drinkers minds, have a right to know!!!! > > I'M about due for a change of fluid myself. > > Forever curious > Jon > Depends on your criteria. Dixon seems to put more emphasis on taste, so he likes microbrewery stuff with no preservatives. They tend to cost more. He also likes his beer cold. Eweeh! I on the other hand like more blast for the buck. Warm Wildcat at 6.1%. I have also been known to try the strong stuff, like Maudite, Fins Du Monde, Carnival. I guess it debends what you like Dale -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com Thu Jun 16 17:31:50 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 16:29:28 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Status: RO Ray, >From the same issue send him the article from the lady in England that has the 109. If you look in the back she has it for sale. It could be what Grettir is looking for. Roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 19:53:23 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 19:37:57 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Hello To: U91F02@MANADON-ENGINEERING-COLLEGE.AC.UK Cc: LRO In-Reply-To: <199406161755.NAA12254@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO In regards to the gear box overhaul. It is not such a bad job. If you only rebuild the main gearbox it is literaly a snap. I just replaced the bearings and all the seals and it took about one hour after getting the thing out. The bearings are standard so just pull them out and take them to any bearing shop and they will supply you with what you want. I think I paid about $100 Canadian for all bearings. I bought the gaskets etc from ABP. It makes a big difference. By the way, I put Slick 50 in the box after rebuilding and I was amazed at how quiet the transmission became. I now use it in the diffs as well. Give it a try, you will find it is not a hard job at all if you are at all mechanical, and who would drive a Land Rover if you wern't Hi HI. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 21:09:41 1994 Date: 17 Jun 1994 13:59:02 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >Date sent: 16 Jun 1994 09:28:26 -0600 >From: Grettir Asmundarson >Subject: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II >To: lro@transfer.stratus.com >And are there any other firms in the UK that I should contact? Have >I missed any other avenues? Innocent Question: Why are you only looking at used Landrovers from the UK? In NZ: 1) We don't have the rust problems found in the UK. 2) Pre-1968 Landys have little or no collector value (because they're everywhere) I sold my beautiful 1956 Series 1 SWB for NZ$2250 (US$1125). 3) Cars are well maintained here and often in better shape unrestored than their "restored" counterparts elsewhere. 4) You could probably afford to fly to NZ, buy a Landy, drive it around for a month, and ship it back for less than the prices you were quoted. Just a thought, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 21:10:01 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: OZ Brew To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:31:28 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at Jun 16, 94 05:12:36 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1466 Status: RO Dixon writes: > > 'tis your brewing laws that keep you in sub-standard beer. Hmmm, > according to John you have wimpy mud. You admit to wimpy beer. I > wonder if a correlation can be drawn to see where the Aussies fit > in... :-) BTW, we tend to get into brewing the stuff ourselves. > You should see the price drop... Ok I'll bite. Personally I like Coopers Sparkling Ale (5.9%) and Coopers Premium (6.1% ?) Cold of course. The Standard run of the mill beer is more like 4.8 - 5.1%. The Infamous Fosters Larger is 4.9%. There is a trend towards low alcohol beers ~ 2.5-2.8% partly due to drink driving laws tightening and increased taxes on the "normal" beer. In some localities our mud is definitely not wimpy. During exercises last year the army is reputed to have bogged a Unimog such that they had to wait for the floodplain to dry out before a rescue was attempted. Personally i have seen the remnants of cruisers ,cruisers bogged to the roofline. Well It stared out as axle deep,but by the time help returned it was more like bonnet deep. When we went by sereral months later all that could be seen was the top of the roof. When they say Road closed for the Wet season they really mean it. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 22:25:10 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:13:21 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Howdy folks, got your bear protection ready for the weekend yet? That Almonte bear is a mean sob1 was in my favourite hobby shop today, one of the staffers, knows andy and I are lr freaks and keeps an eye open. He passed me a copy of a fax showing NEW MODEL RELEASES for '94 AOSHIMA are coming out with a "Land Rover Range Rover European styling w/ roof rack" in 1:24 scale around about now. Will retail for aprox 39.95 USD but may be cheaper here in good old Canada, you know the place, where the good beer comes from! Will give you more later, rgds robin craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 21:44:51 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 20:33:00 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Being Ill Status: RO Hi Gang, Well just heard from a Rover friend in Bozeman. There is a small Rover club that is not affiliated with anybody down in Bozeman. Anyway one of the members just found and bought a 57 Series I, 109 for, I might get sick, $500.00. It has been setting for 24 years and of-course all the interior is gone and the glass was shot out years ago. But it is complete and straight to include a factory winch on the front. Plus it still had the full tool kit. One of the guys I talked to is doing some rebuilding for others and is working on five Rovers of various years with all vehicles already spoken for. Roy - Rover in the Rockies - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 22:54:36 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:40:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Being Ill To: ROY CALDWELL Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406170233.AA09217@mtnoca.helena_noc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re low priced Rovers. I shouldn't let you in on the prices up here in Canada, ut I paid $500 for a 1970 late IIA with the rod through the block but everything else perfect. The interior was and is black leather and like new. We still have this kind of deal. I would check the pot ash mines in Saskatchewan. They bought a whole raft of them in the 60s to use underground. The were white with no doors and window frames but otherwise full Land Rovers. All I saw were Diesel with a scrubber on the exhaust. It looked like a barrel on its side on the front bumper. They go for the price quoted and of course will have no real miles on them but lots of hard work. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 16 23:34:16 1994 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 23:07:06 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: Grettir Asmundarson Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406161528.AA01311@keflavik.wordperfect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re where to get a Land Rover I would suggest that club members check out Paul's Safari Service at Niagara Falls Ontario for a reconditioned vehicle. I visited him last summer and I was impressed with his workmanship and the selection he had on hand. He is one place I have seen a forward control model in North America. He brings them in in containers and then rebuilds them from the ground up. He has a small production line, and when I was there he had about three on the buid line. The vehicles were stripped right to the rolling chassis and rebuilt. He had a whole yard of X MOT and DND vehicles from the UK in at the time. He was very friendly and enjoyed a chat. I was empressed enough to recommend him to my brother who will be buying a 109 to launch and retrieve his boat on Lake Huron. Ronald Mowry at P.O. Box 1023 West Lebanon Maine 04027 once advertised 9 Land Rovers which the British left in Canada. They were all at Calgary Alberta and ranged from $4,250 for a 1979 88 lightweight to $7000 for a 1983 109 2 door. maybe there are some left or maybe he has an in with Crown Assets Desposal in Canada for used rigs. It is worth a try. Not that I am trying to limit our supply of rigs up here, but I have never understood why Americans pay so much for their units when the Canadian dollar is so low in compariison to the U.S. one and for maybe a 4 day trip and some looking you could do real well. On the West Coast is UK Truck and Traction at Vancouver and Octopus Parts Phone 1-604-925-1514 in West Vancouver who say they sell ser. I II and III units as is or refurbished. I haven't bought from them, because I have found 8 Land Rovers here, and how many Land Rovers can one have in a lifetime Hi Hi. I hope this helps. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 00:51:36 1994 Date: 17 Jun 1994 17:43:53 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: lro@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >From: Hugh Grierson >Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II >David L Dean wrote: >> 4) You could probably afford to fly to NZ, buy a Landy, drive it around >> for a month, and ship it back for less than the prices you were quoted. > >David may be onto something here. If I remember I'll take a look >into the classifieds in the weekend and post some current prices, >from this end of the country. David might be persuaded to do the >same from his end. > No problem. I'll put something together for Monday. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 02:49:42 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 00:39:49 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: US Nat'l Rally Status: RO Is anyone going to the National Rally thing in Colorado in August? I'm hoping to go on the way back from a trip around western Canada. My girlfriend and I were there two years ago when the Defender 110 was introduced. It was pretty cool. Got to meet a lot of neat people. Uncle Roger From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 03:41:49 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 07:59:07 GMT+0200 Subject: Howzit to all Landie Owners?! Priority: normal Status: RO Just a quickie "intro" from a new subscriber. Keith Coman's the name. I have a 1958 Series 2 SWB station-wagon that I bought in '85. On aquisition it was "running" but needed a lot of work. Fortunately the engine was in excellent condition, but that was about all. Over about an 18 month period I was able to strip it down and then put everything back together -- repairing and replacing as needed. Mods included fitting freewheel hubs and hoicking out the rear diff (which was pretty worn anyway) and stuffing in a Rover car diff off of a '59 Rover 100. The latter has a higher ratio: initial pull off is slower but open road top end is more relaxed and petrol consumption is improved. This unit has an interesting history. When originally supplied it was one of the few that came out very briefly with the old Series 1 F- head engine -- subsequently however this has been replaced with the more usual 2.25 OHV motor. Its first owner was the old Rhodesian Army (now Zimbabwe) who used it as a wireless vehicle. It was sold out of service in 1968 to a transport depot NCO (who ensured that the engine and gearbox were .... err, "updated"!). He disposed of it privately in Rhodesia in about 1974. The new owner's work took him out into the bush and as there was a war on at the time, he was able to make up an "anti-ambush kit" comprising a mounting on the back with twin AK47's set to fire out one on each side -- in a contact, thumping a handle in the cab would put these on full-auto to lay down some quick "suppressive". He sold it on to the post master at a small town called Gwanda around '78-79. When I got it, the licence papers were for a customs official based in Messina up in the far northern Transvaal of South Africa. Anyway, soon after putting it back on the road I was contacted by a chap who was working here at Rhodes University. We got chatting and surprise!, he was the bloke who had the Landie during its "AK" period! He filled me in on the details and was also able to explain the unusual tow hitch (army radio trailor), its twin fuel tank system and the "odd" reinforcing plates in the back (AK mountings). He was also the one to retro-fit the "factory original" tropical roof and station wagon cab. This Landie is now in daily use. Very reliable and easy to work on. I guess that's enough waffling from me...! Look forward to Landie chat!! Cheers, Keith Coman Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa. * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 03:48:22 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Hello To: U91F02@MANADON-ENGINEERING-COLLEGE.AC.UK Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 9:40:27 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406161755.NAA12254@transfer.stratus.com>; from "U91F02@manadon-engineering-college.ac.uk" at Jun 16, 94 6:28 pm Status: RO Simon, I'm not totally sure about this,but...Dont Lightwieghts have a removable gearbox X-member?If so,removal should be a relative doddle,because you dont have to dismantle the entire vehicle to get at it.You can drop it down to the floor and pull it out. LRW magazine is into Lightweights at present,and did a cheao and cheerful box rebuild on a S111 109" the issue before. Fan off a Strada....why didnt I think of that?My 2.25 diesel has *never* got off the "cold" area of the gauge in the seven years I've had it.Thanks for that one,mate. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 02:51:11 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 08:43:36 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Grettir Asmundarson was bold enough to point out... Just to be both ignorant and irrelevant, I thought women had .........sdottir endings? Or is that just in Iceland? Or am I completely wrong again :( From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 06:15:23 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:35:17 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: gnma35@mech.gla.ac.uk (Ron Thomson) Subject: Greetings from Glasgow Status: RO Just a message to say hello from Sunny (we tell lies) Scotland. I'd about given up hope that there were other LR victims out there, other than the occasional poster to rec.autos.misc. In fact I was going to suggest we start (w)rec(k).autos.landrover. As readers of LROInt might know, there is a Scottish LRO club, but there is also an informal little group who are often to be found horizontal (a position favoured by LR owners?) in the Ubiquitous Chip bar in Glasgow's west end. There is usually a LR or two in the car park - should you ever be travelling this way. Just as background, I (Ron T) have a clapped out S2A LWB - which will be clapped in as soon as I get a cash injection. My buddy Al, who is piggybacking on my e-mail address until his own is reconnected, has a short-arse S3. Mind you, he's won't be driving it for a short time, having been caught by the Strathclyde Polis doing 135 (on a bike, not a LR) along the road to Loch Lomond. Both of us became addicted to LRs at the same time as we learned to endure other ludicrous hardships - in the Army. By the way, i've written to the editor of LROInt to tell that there are some of us who like to address both ends of the technological spectrum - ie LRs and the net - but I didn't know of this mailing list at the time. I'll pass on the info. Regards all, Ron Thomson SSP 482 K Alan Birkbeck HOR 716 L Mech Eng Dept Glasgow Uni Scotland. PS What do you call a Glaswegian in a suit? The accused! How does a Glaswegian propose marriage? "Yer WHIT?" Dr R. Thomson Room 202A Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Glasgow Ext. 4336 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 00:29:26 1994 Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 14:37:03 NZT From: Hugh Grierson In-Reply-To: ; from "DAVID DEAN" at Jun 17, 94 1:59 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 388 Status: RO David L Dean wrote: > 4) You could probably afford to fly to NZ, buy a Landy, drive it around > for a month, and ship it back for less than the prices you were quoted. David may be onto something here. If I remember I'll take a look into the classifieds in the weekend and post some current prices, from this end of the country. David might be persuaded to do the same from his end. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 07:56:12 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:24:39 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:24:11 +0000 Subject: Re: Greetings from Glasgow Priority: normal Status: RO > As readers of LROInt might know, there is a Scottish LRO club, > but there is also an informal little group who are often to be > found horizontal (a position favoured by LR owners?) in the > Ubiquitous Chip bar in Glasgow's west end. There is usually a > LR or two in the car park - should you ever be travelling this way. > And I thought i was the only SLROC person on this list... HELLO! The next question is..... can we get Alex into the net ;-) ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. #======================================================================# Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. **Experimental** From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 09:02:45 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 09:37:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Ma says NO! To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu, tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, thomas@apple.com, r.@apple.com, coron@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406162145.AA25580@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > > BUT, as for this "Our beer is better" stuff, this is *now* a debatable > > subject. > Guys, > Not that I have anything against having fun & such but my mailer gets enough > traffic with the british car list without bubbling over with non-Land Rover > related topics such as whose beer is better and who has a new girl friend and > who wants which toy & such. > > It seems like a lot of the Land Rover group traffic these days is non Land Rover > related banter. Any chance someone could start an alternate mail list for non > land rover related banter? People seem to need and enjoy it and I think it > should be supported. i just am not keen in seeing it in my mbox. > > > The party pooper, > > > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > LINK: TWAKEMAN > 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 > I'll drink to that! (it ALL tastes like tea made through old sweat sox) tea-totalin' steve..... But they were Land Rover Toys........ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 09:28:28 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:15:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, thomas@apple.com, "r."@apple.com, coron@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com, "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Canadian Brew In-Reply-To: <9406162145.AA25580@apple.com> Status: RO Dearest TeriAnn, I got the message, and I'll never never do it again. No more "Devils Advocate" for me. No sireeeee. No toys---No love---No Beer Gone all gone. SIGH I promise Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 09:38:13 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:22:40 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Ma says NO! Status: RO > It seems like a lot of Land Rover group traffic these days is non Land Rover > related banter. Any chance someone could start an alternate mail list for >non > land rover related banter? People seem to need and enjoy it and I think it > should be supported. i just am not keen in seeing it in my mbox. seconded (the banter can be fun and all, but ...) -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 08:26:16 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 18 Jun 94 00:58:52 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Gearbox Renovation Content-Type: Text Status: RO Simon asked: >> If anyone has any tips/opinions on gearbox renovation I would be most grateful if you would share them with me as I am not looking forward to this job. >> Simon, The gearbox renovation isn't too bad if you've got time and patience. The tips I've learned that I can think of off hand are: Remove the unit in sections - Overdrive, transfer + Hi-Lo unit together, then main box. This way you don't need a hoist (I'm 132 lbs and I could do it) and it makes lining up the pilot shaft a lot easier on reassembly. Special tools- 19/32 socket, open end and box end wrenches, the heaviest duty set of snap ring pliers you can buy (for the snap ring on the output shaft in the transfer, and a torch - propane is OK - to heat the main box casing to remove the reverse idler shaft if necessary and to warm the transfer to remove the bearing races. The first race (I've forgotten if it's front or back) in the transfer that you have to remove is difficult to get out. I heated the box and tapped it out on an angle with an old screwdriver from the inside. I think you are in England so parts should be cheap, but when replacing the mainshaft rear bearing get a double sealed unit from a transmission shop, use some good gasket sealer around the outside, and the oil won't leak from the main box to the transfer again. The plain circlip on the front of the mainshaft is tricky, but be patient, use 2 or 3 screwdrivers to bend it out, and you'll get it. Don't reuse it. If the rear bearing race for the layshaft does not cooperate and there is no hole behind it, drill a new hole to allow you to drift the race out. Be sure the hole is in the gasket area. If not, the oil will leak right out. You'll understand better when you look at the area. While you've got it out, drill and tap the top cover of the main, transfer, and overdrive, install small hose nipples, and plumb some heat and oil resistant tubing up to the firewall. This will reduce the pressure and leaks as the box heats up and the amount of oil on you rear window. Assemble the hi-lo unit to the transfer BEFORE bolting the transfer to the main box. When replacing the pilot bushing, first try hooking the head of a nail under the front of the bushing in the flywheel, clamping vice grip pliers on the nail, then levering against the vice grips with the screwdriver. If this gets you nowhere put a grinding bit on your electric twist drill and grindout one side of the inside of the bushing. Don't go too far. When you're almost through tap it on an angle to try to turn it with a drift or chisel (careful of the flywheel). It should be loose enough at this point to pry/pull out. Soak the new bushing in ATF overnight before installing. Output shaft bearing adjustment - the manual says to wrap a cord arount the output shaft and pull with a scale, and using a feeler gauge between the casing and speedo housing. Bull$3!+ on that! With bearings well oiled bolt the speedo housing down with one of the .010 shims removed (you'll find 3 sizes of shims in there - .015, .010, and .005. You shouldn't have to buy any). Continue to rotate the shaft while tightening. If the shaft grabs before you finish tightening the bolts STOP. Unbolt the speedo housing, add an .005 shim (or remove the .010 and add an .015) and try again. If the shaft does not grab continue removing .005 at a time (mix and match shims to do so) until it grabs and STOP. Undo everything, add .005 and replace the speedo housing for good (don't forget the speedo drive thing that goes inside - it's like a doughnut with diagonal threads on the outside. Yes, it does have a name but I don't recall what it is. Make sure it's the right way around). I tried the rope around the shaft trick with the fish scale on my first rebuild (done 3 now) and found the value is either too low or it is too high (grabs). The jumping out of gear problem could be weak or stuck detent springs or it could be that the engagement teeth on the affected gears are worn. As for gears, if they look a little worn, replace 'em. Bearings, replace 'em. Sorry this stuff is not in order. >From what you wrote I don't think you'll have any problem. It's not brain surgery, believe me. I think you'll find it very satisfying. Once you get it back together it may be noisier than before, but only for a couple of hundred miles or so once the gear teeth mate up. If you run into any snags feel free to write me or the net. Good Luck! Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 10:18:22 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:40:47 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: gnma35@mech.gla.ac.uk (Ron Thomson) Subject: non LR topics Status: RO There's no harm is chewing the fat on other matters in LRO mailing list - provided these don't dominate and the main topic is still LRs and the (di)stress of living with them. But I have to admit that much of the traffic at present seems to be better suited to rec.food.drink.beer. Maybe it's just a phase. Regards, Ron. ** is 4X4 an appropriate protocol for the superhighway? ** Dr R. Thomson Room 202A Department of Mechanical Engineering University of Glasgow Ext. 4336 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 10:15:43 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:47:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Ma says NO! To: jory bell Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406171421.AA15582@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO ooooooooooo! it got awful quiet out there..... OK! Rover stuff!!!!!! When I depress the clutch (I remind it that it is only a 9"..) I get a growling rumble as if the throw out bearing is dry...but this beastie is a lla,and the release mech. is bathed in gear oil..(as is the entire frame....) Has anyone ever seen a *BAD* release bearing on a lla? Yes the transmission is full,and the free play is correct,as is the clutch cover..The sound is similar to the noise a factory oil cooler makes when the oil is low....sorta like a wounded sea mamamal.....any Ideas????? 1st and reverse growl too....the teeth on the out side of 1st gear are shot i guess....could be related? please speak up as I'm wearing my"rover sound proofing kit"...31 Db reduction..$0.45....cheap!!!!! steve...... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 11:44:38 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:32:13 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Downeast Rally Status: RO I've got a guest here today...Diesel Bob....seems he's getting stir crazy laid up with a broke leg and all. With time off, he'd like to try to make it to the Downeast rally, but fly in by the commercial lines. Could anyone up there suggest the closest airport and possibily provide a ride from there to Camden? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 11:59:35 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 11:49:11 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Oil Coolers Status: RO What are the benefits of running with an oil cooler? Is this just for heavy towing and such? If you do put in an oil cooler where does it loop out and then back in to the old oil system. (2.25 petrol) Do you lose oil pressure when you run an oil cooler. Just wondering - Greg PS - I'm looking forward to adding picts of the LRO birthday party to the RoverWeb. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 13:32:28 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 12:16:17 -0600 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: "David L. Dean" Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO -----[ Beginning of quote ]----- Innocent Question: Why are you only looking at used Landrovers from the UK? In NZ: 1) We don't have the rust problems found in the UK. 2) Pre-1968 Landys have little or no collector value (because they're everywhere) I sold my beautiful 1956 Series 1 SWB for NZ$2250 (US$1125). 3) Cars are well maintained here and often in better shape unrestored than their "restored" counterparts elsewhere. 4) You could probably afford to fly to NZ, buy a Landy, drive it around for a month, and ship it back for less than the prices you were quoted. -----[ End of quote ]------ Good grief, New Zealand never occurred to me. I've got a couple of questions: 1) The frame is my biggest concern in looking for a 25-year old vehicle. A Rover from a less rust-prone area would be a real advantage. Perhaps folks could set me straight. I've always assumed that most frame corrosion problems were caused by: a. Road salt. 2. Proximity to the ocean, and thus salt water. III. General dampness of the climate. >From what I've read (and heard from a friend from Aukland), NZ has a fairly moist climate and most major cities seem to be along the coast. How do you manage to escape the rust problem? 2) Augh! A beautiful 1956 Series I for US$1125!?! I'm weeping on my keyboard. If only I could be so lucky. 3) A well-maintained original (in my mind) beats a good restoration any day. 4) I've always wanted to visit New Zealand. The idea of finally taking the trip and coming home with the 109" of my dreams is even better. I appreciate your and Hugh's offer to post some examples of Land Rovers for sale in the classifieds. I'm looking forward to seeing what is available and what the prices are. Now to see if I can get off work for a month... P.S. 109's are somewhat hard to come by in England. Are they any more prevalent in NZ? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 15:40:00 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 17 Jun 94 15:30:37 -0600 To: /S=grettir#064#keflavik.wordperfect.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: RE: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Status: RO im intrested in contacting someone in new zealand who is willing to have a look around for any series 2, 2a, or 3 in either the 88 or 109. pls contact me back via email. im eagerley awaiting your response for i too am intrested in a rover of my very own. another issue is the concern about the transfer of funds if an appropriate vehicle is found. shippin on the other hand can be handled from this end. any response would be highly appreciated. my email address is ben_hui@mdd.comm.mot.com phone 604-241-6053 thx _______________________________________________________________________________ To: /S=deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ Cc: /S=lro@transfer.stratus.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ From: /S=grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ on Fri, Jun 17, 1994 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II -----[ Beginning of quote ]----- Innocent Question: Why are you only looking at used Landrovers from the UK? In NZ: 1) We don't have the rust problems found in the UK. 2) Pre-1968 Landys have little or no collector value (because they're everywhere) I sold my beautiful 1956 Series 1 SWB for NZ?2250 (US?1125). 3) Cars are well maintained here and often in better shape unrestored than their "restored" counterparts elsewhere. 4) You could probably afford to fly to NZ, buy a Landy, drive it around for a month, and ship it back for less than the prices you were quoted. -----[ End of quote ]------ Good grief, New Zealand never occurred to me. I've got a couple of questions: 1) The frame is my biggest concern in looking for a 25-year old vehicle. A Rover from a less rust-prone area would be a real advantage. Perhaps folks could set me straight. I've always assumed that most frame corrosion problems were caused by: a. Road salt. 2. Proximity to the ocean, and thus salt water. III. General dampness of the climate. >From what I've read (and heard from a friend from Aukland), NZ has a fairly moist climate and most major cities seem to be along the coast. How do you manage to escape the rust problem? 2) Augh! A beautiful 1956 Series I for US?1125!?! I'm weeping on my keyboard. If only I could be so lucky. 3) A well-maintained original (in my mind) beats a good restoration any day. 4) I've always wanted to visit New Zealand. The idea of finally taking the trip and coming home with the 109" of my dreams is even better. I appreciate your and Hugh's offer to post some examples of Land Rovers for sale in the classifieds. I'm looking forward to seeing what is available and what the prices are. Now to see if I can get off work for a month... P.S. 109's are somewhat hard to come by in England. Are they any more prevalent in NZ? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 13:23:01 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 11:15:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Ma says NO! Status: RO In message <9406171421.AA15582@MIT.EDU> jory bell writes: > > > It seems like a lot of Land Rover group traffic these days is non Land > > Rover > > related banter. Any chance someone could start an alternate mail list for > >non > > land rover related banter? People seem to need and enjoy it and I think it > > should be supported. i just am not keen in seeing it in my mbox. > > > seconded (the banter can be fun and all, but ...) > > -jory > > I have just recieved a pile of fan mail for being Mom & trying to put a damper on the TONNEs of non-Land Rover specific bantering. I appriciate the support, but no one appointed me the group's Mom (Well maybe a lot of people have). I'm just a reader & occasional poster like almost everyone else..Someone even mentioned that they were quietly fuming at the bantering and waiting for me to put a halt to it. Please feel empowered to speak out when you think the topics gone far afield with null.land-rover.content for too long. This group is an anarchy and we work on mutual consent and mutual respect. If you are getting buried under a pile of null.land-rover.content mail, say something. Remember except for the sysop everyone here is just as unimportant as everyone else. Dixon, Any chance you or someone from your club can set up an Ottawa Land Rover club & friends mail list for local gossip? I'm not trying to toss you guys out. What you are saying is important to you and you should have a way to communicate with each other. You guys do have a lot of Land Rover expertese to bring to the Land Rover mail list and should stay here to share it. I just think you need a place to chat amoung yourselves without filling up every one else's mbox. I'm just a poor, ex-hippie, ex-anarchist, still hanging out in the Santa Cruz mountains who just haapens to like driving British cars... I'm NOT the group's constible. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 16:15:18 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 17 Jun 94 16:05:45 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: rovers in new zealand Status: RO im intrested in contacting someone down there in new zealand who can look at a couple of rovers on my behalf. im intrested in either the series 2,2a or 3 in a 88 or 109, basically somthing decent. i want a rover and this seems to be a reasonable alternative to finding a good vehicle aside from the u.s. and england. you can contact me at ben_hui@mdd.comm.mot.com or 604-241-6053 voice. i would also like to discuss the issue of the transfer of funds if a appropriate vehicle is found. the movement of the vehicle to canada can be done from this end so there is little concern about that aspect of the purchase. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 16:58:29 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 16:45:01 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9406161528.AA01311@keflavik.wordperfect.com> from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Jun 16, 94 09:28:26 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3476 Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson was bold enough to point out... > >I've contacted 3 dealers on the list that Mike Rooth kindly posted >from LRO. Here are the results: > I promised a posting of the AL Workhorse article -- here it is. Ray (sore fingers) Harder. ********************************************************************* ** The following was a letter that was published in the Spring 94 ** ** issue of the LROA magazine: The Aluminum Workhorse ** ********************************************************************* Dear Sirs, I have read recently in various publications, i.e. LRO Magazine and a cutting from the Toronto Star that there is a great swell of enthusiam for Land Rovers in North America. As a Land Rover enthusiast I am very interested in what is going on over there with you, as my hobby is rebuilding old Land Rovers. I am writing to you to find out if there is any way I can help you to put and keep Land Rovers on the road. Living in the Scottish border country (on the border with England), we have access to a large source of vehicles and rebuild them using new galvanized chassis and many genuine and non-genuine parts. I buy these parts from a friend, Rupert Leng of Leng Land Rovers Ltd. Rupert and I have the following proposals which may be of interest. It is based on me refurbishing vehicles and Rupert providing parts. o Supplying Refurbished vehicles: Refurbished to your specifications, i.e. using genuine or non-genuine parts whatever required, various engine configurations, color, types of seats, etc. o Supplying vehicle and parts to repair: Supply a vehicle which has ended it's first life, along with the parts required for enthusiasts in your country to rebuild it. o Supplying a vehicle only: We can send out to you a vehicle which, as above, has come to the end of it's life, leaving you to source parts to rebuild it. Or you could break it for spares. Given the time, we can source most models along with access to many new and second hand parts, i.e. various engines, etc. If any of the above are of interest to you or your club members I would be pleased to hear from you/them. Rod Barry 32 Wythbank Row Clovenfords, Selkirk-shire TD1 3NK Scottland, U.K. Phone 089685 619 (h) 031 554 6736 (w) ********************************************************************* ** Per Roy's suggetsion, here is the 109 advertised in the same ** ** issue ** ********************************************************************* 1962 109 Safari Land Rover -- 12 seater. "The Tank". 2 1/4 petrol w/9 years on rebuild -- still excellent. Body excellent w/recent respray. New doors, doorposts, modesty skirts, front panel. Near new springs. Near new headliner. New petrol tank. Color - Marine blue w/ limestone. L5000 (english pounds) Buyer must pay shipping. Phone Halifax (0422) 355347 (England). ********************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 16:55:05 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 17:46:27 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: this and that, tit for tat Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Ok folks........ On a "serious" note, Nigel (the '60 SII 88), Honey, Cora (two morgans, horses, that is), and I spent the last few nights getting Nigel's front end back together. These new Railco bushes really are a dream come true...NO more wobble whatsoever. Even took him for a spin down "tankslapper lane" at speed and there wasn't even the slightest bit 'o shudder in that steering wheel. Wow wee. For those of you who still have the old cone and spring setup I strongly suggest you consider the railco conversion....it is an easy job, will cost you about $150 US for the bits (which is *less* than a new set of cones and springs will cost you), and all you need is a press (or a friend who has one). The horses are now quite psyched to have their roofless barn back to themselves. On another "pseudoserious" note, I got a call from Dixon today who took it upon himself to look me up in the US phone book, tracked me down at home, got the work number from my bro KD, and harrassed me into coming up to Ottawa. Thanks for that, mate, I was bummin' about having to turn down the invitation, but alas, you've given me no choice. I am coming and will bring my bear protection (the lil' woman) along with me. Nige might not make the trip, though, as I've gotta make it there and back in good time. Any of you who've had it with my antics can meet me there and we'll have it out once and for all (over a good beer, no less). Which brings me to the third topic.......all of this banter about anti-banter has cluttered my box to such an extent that it's even got to *me*. But, just let me tell you all how I deal with this-it is really easy technique to learn and I'm sure all of you can get the hang of it. First, I raise my right hand, palm side towards me, with the back side of my hand facing the screen. Then, I let all but my middle finger assume the pull of gravity. We New Yorkers get really good at this, as it has replaced the wave and the thumbs-up as common highway gestures. For those of you in Jolly 'ol England, just flash yourself the peace sign (victory to you, but I grew up in a different era), bend your fingers slightly, and give a couple of quick pumps. As for you in OZ, NZ, Italia, and Germany, I've no clue, but surely the US mode must have some meaning there. Once you've mastered this you can do it while your left hand rests on the keyboard. Then, just let the middle finger of your left hand hit the "D" key. Message gone, never again to be read. It's that easy. Cabeesh? rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 17:10:51 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 16:59:31 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: Grettir Asmundarson Cc: "David L. Dean" , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406171816.AA03647@keflavik.wordperfect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re frame rust and where it comes from. I live in the prairie region of Canada and one of the worst offenders at causing rust is long grass. If a vehicle sits for years in grass long enough to touch the frame, it keeps the area damp and it starts to rust. As you know it is like cancer and just keeps going. Covering a vehicle to the ground is another bad idea. If you stop the covering above the ground, moisture can get out. Field mice and gophers etc like to nest in old frames and this really eats the stuff as well. Just ramblings I know but for some of you in the central US like Kansas you will have the same problems we have plus we have snow to contend with sitting on the frame even if we don't have salt. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 20:36:26 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 20:17:57 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: Grettir Asmundarson , "David L. Dean" , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO More on frame rust. We in central Canada have found our frames rusting from the inside out in some cases. If you wade your vehicle a lot, the holes in the frame let in mud with the water and of course gravity being what it is it can't get back out when the water leaves. Over time the stuff inside is wet and sits at the bottom of the frame. Having the box ends closed only adds to the problem. Take the high pressure car was hose and flus out the frame. One fellow in our group has taken to running oil down the frame wenever he does a strip down to coat the inside with oil. It at least helps. A friend of mine suggested using WD40 or a similar water dispalcement oil. It seems to be best since it drives out water and it creeps upward in pouris metal. I have sprayed it into door areas on vehicles and weeks later I see it climbing out around the windows. This should help. Perhaps a few holes to drain the frame would help if you wade a lot. Does anyone know what year chassis 144003949 was built. I only have the shop manual to check and I would like a closer date if possible.. It was registered as a 1960 but of course that is impossible. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 20:58:15 1994 Date: 17 Jun 94 21:46:49 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:hiner@mail.utexas.edu" Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Lumenition Status: RO Oops, sorry Greg, I forgot one *very* important thing when explaining how to 'undo' the Lumenition conversion: You must of course also keep and re-fit the *rotor arm* !! Because that goes out as well when installing the Lumenition. Bye, Stefan <100043.2400@compuserve.com> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 22:05:53 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 21:56:34 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Parts, Parts, Parts To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4yLTNc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi Dixon, just me again. I wanted to include the other guys in the question about the serial number on my rig. I went out and checked the frame and the number is 244364266 not 144 as I mentioned in another letter. If you can check out the year for me I would appreciate it. I have Bill Crowe a friend of mine who also likes cars. He is also into moror cycles. he was in Arnprior with me some years ago. See you. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 17 22:23:26 1994 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 22:12:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: US Nat'l Rally To: Roger Sinasohn Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406170739.AA08592@crl2.crl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Can you tell us more about the rally in Colorado in August. I am also going west at that time and I would like to drop in and see the folks from the US if possible. Dave VE4PNOn Fri, 17 Jun 1994, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > Is anyone going to the National Rally thing in Colorado in August? I'm > hoping to go on the way back from a trip around western Canada. > > My girlfriend and I were there two years ago when the Defender 110 was > introduced. It was pretty cool. Got to meet a lot of neat people. > > Uncle Roger > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 02:37:27 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 09:33:16 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Oil Coolers Priority: normal Status: RO > What are the benefits of running with an oil cooler? Is this just for heavy > towing and such? If you do put in an oil cooler where does it loop out and > then back in to the old oil system. (2.25 petrol) Do you lose oil pressure > when you run an oil cooler. As I recall Landie oil coolers are generally recommended if yr unit is used quite a lot as a stationery power unit. For other and more normal applications an oil cooler is perhaps a bit superfluous. This would especially be so if yr unit is "based" in a fairly temperate climate. Out here in Africa I can't think of a single instance where a chap has installed an oil cooler on a Landie *except* in the case of a unit which has had an engine swop (e.g. 4.1 litre Chev 6 cylinder). Most chaps out here who want a bit of extra cooling go the electric fan route. I agree however that in a hot climate with lots of towing and heavy off-road work an oil cooler would make for extra reassurance. Other opinions....? Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 08:07:34 1994 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 13:00:33 GMT From: dushin russell To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Subject: Apology Please allow me to offer my most sincere apologies to any and all who were offended by the closing comments in my last message (Friday eve). As too often happens when I write in haste and under the influence of emotion, things just don't always come out as intended and by the time the 'Cntrl D' button is hit it's too late-the message is stratus-bound and cannot be retrieved. After writing the message and hitting the road for Ottawa I reflected on its contents and realized that some may take it personally and in the wrong context. Those comments (the gesture stuff) was in NO WAY meant to imply that this is what I do to you, but rather, that this is what you should do to me if you don't like what I've written (ie. flick me off and delete my message). I would also like to add an extra *heavy* apology to TeriAnn for having to once again unwillingly assume the role of Mother and keep us little boys in line. As for the subject of banter, I agree agree that too much has appeared of late.....the banter scale has reached a robust 8 on the 1-to-10 scale whereas something in the range of a 2 is perhaps more managable. Banter not only clogs your mailbox, but more importantly detracts from the overall quality of the list. I hereby pledge to you all to keep my banter to an absolute minimum from now on. Please accept my apology as I mean it wholeheartedly, but don't bother sending me 'apology acceptance' mail since I don't deserve it. You are more than welcome, of course, to send your hate mail my way, though. Off to OVLR (late, but with a clear-er conscience), rd/nigeless From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 13:10:42 1994 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 18:51:02 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: LR Denmark To: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Good evening. You can now add DK to the nationality codes. Here's my data: Name: Soren Vels Christensen Place: Ballerup (outside Copenhagen) Job: Communication specialist, Royal Danish Air Force THE car: 76 109" van (lower road tax) Club: Dansk Land-Rover Klub (no. 3564) I bought it in march this year for dkr 20.000. It has a lot of dents and scratches, but i don't care about the looks at this time. I am concentrating on the technical side. I'm about to change the tank which has a small leak in the top, and a change of detent springs in the 3/4th gear syncromesh. I hope i can stop the toothbrushing without rebuilding the whole gearbox at this time. The engine lacks compression due to wear during it's 18 years of life. A bottle of Swedol might take care of that until i can rebuild the engine. The problem is that i live in an apartment. The car was equipped with two different freewheeling hubs, an old Mayflower and one without brand name. I fitted new superwinch instead. Due to workshifts i couldn't go the the national meeting so i missed the Land-Rover polo match. Unfortunately i was also unable to go to Sweden, a fine trip according to the club monthly, "oasen" (the oasis). My brother is going to by a LR when he's back from vacation. This should do for an introduction. Please put me on the list. __________ | \_____ SOREN VELS | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk * * ** * |__/ \_______/ \_| (0) (0) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 12:24:53 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 13:15:58 EST Encoding: 99 Text To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz, Grettir Asmundarson Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re[2]: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II Content-Length: 96 Status: RO Are older Range Rovers available in NZ at similar bargain prices? Lee llevitt@idcresearch.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 17:41:47 1994 Date: 18 Jun 94 18:31:29 EDT From: "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> To: all lro in the usa Subject: tire advise Status: RO Dear Fellow Members I just received from the UK [Warwick 4X4] a rebuilt 1962 88' wagon which has bad re-capped tires.Is it ok to put on 750x16 radials on this car? I live in orlando fl and I am having a most dificult time finding a store that sells this size.Also wht brand is best? I will be driving 90% on the road and approx. 10% off road. Also I find the front seat to close for my comfort.....I'm 73 inches tall;is there anything simple i can do to add to my comfort. Thanks for the help. Benjamin g. Newman PS My LR has been restored to a series 111 condition. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 22:24:38 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 20:45:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO WPCP 2BVPZ&Courier 10cp Roland Raven D%X@USUS2N#|x OVLR BIRTHDAY PARTY FIRST REPORTS ================================== Where to start. Hmmm. When I arrived up at the site a number ofpeople had arrived mostly OVLR folks. Pam and Charlie from RoversNorth had arrived, Darrel (sp) Dushin and messrs Mike Loiodice(pronounced Smith) accompanied by Steve Denis (Its not a Jeep). Steve had driven his 109 sw on the journey up and handed over thehot (driving) seat to Mike for the off road stuff. Well, just after lunch about 8 or 9 Land Rovers lined up in thefield and headed for the back forty for a "serious" off road run.Even though we are in high summer temperatures right now there isno shortage of water in the woods. Having arrived only half an hour earlier Dale desprey was put atthe front of the convoy by chief tour guide Dixon. Dale has onlyjust finished putting his little 88 diesel back together thismorning but has a really well mounted (yes, I made the mount)Ramsay winch that we knew would be required. So we steamed of with myself as Dale's passenger. It was only whenwe got to the first mud hole that he remembered that he had lefthis wander lead for the winch behind at camp. A quick call on theCB got a runner to bring it down asap. Not wanting to wait anylonger Dale lined up the 88 and plunged into the first hole. A quick description here might help set the scene. The hole isabout 40 feet long in a gently lefthanded curve, entry is a gentlydrop off into water with sand/goo bottom and a rock slab as anexit. The rock is quite heavily sloped and the transition from thequag is difficult. sadly for Dale he did not make it far into the hole, the winchpulled him half way around. Here he uncoupled and made a run forthe rock. All power to Dales driving skills 'cos he got up unaided.Only Bruce Ricker's 109 managed the same feat. A couple morevehicles were pulled through by Dale's winch using a snatch blockto negotiate the curve where needed. At this point the back markers in the convoy wimped out and made adetour to another part of the track further ahead. A small mud holecreated a choke point for a few minutes, but was passable with arun at it. Good progress was made for a few minutes until a long wet sectionalongside a swamp was encountered that proved costly. The hole wasa good sixty feet long and somewhere in the bottom lurked a tyrechewing rock. It notable here from my observations that those withheavy right feet seemed to pay the biggest price. When the convoywas through I think that there were a total of six flat tyres! Th)0*0*0*00TOne of those who did not suffer was Dale, with his diesel that hasincredible low down power he calmly walked this section not reallyletting the wheels spin. The biggest looser was Steve Denis who asI noted earlier had turned over the helm to his pipe smoking buddyMike Loiodice. They managed to puncture both tyres on the starboardside (right for un enlightened). Much Hi lifting was done in the bush and spares were retrieved fromwhere they had bounced to from their unsecured mounts, don't worrySteve and Mike, I wont tell them it was you! The convoy got going again until mcdermott got his hybrid series 1/ series 3 machine well and truly swamped in a sixty foot longhole. His fan sent the wet stuff everywhere which was cured when hetook the fan belt off. A number of backward and forward runs in thehole got him free. Ernie in his 88 was the next victim. He did not make it as far asmcdermott had before his machine died. Calls of bring the WD 40echoed in the bush as I set off to walk out as I had an appointmenthere in town tonight. I'm sure that the section that had beenpassed up to that point was the worst and the hole I left them inwould be the last really difficult piece but would provide alot ofentertainment. I'm sure we will get the rest from dixon when he gets home onSunday night. BTW I met the lovely Sandra for the first time. Amost charming lady I must say. regards Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 18 22:24:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 21:07:06 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO oops, I just renamed Mr Dushin Darrell instead of Russell, sorry old chap. Have more on ex military Land Rovers from out west but will have to be later. bye Rbin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 19 10:44:09 1994 Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 09:46:20 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: tire advise To: "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> Cc: all lro in the usa In-Reply-To: <940618223129_71773.3457_FHM70-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re tyres and no space. I was just talking to Dixon about the same problem with y Land Rover. I have owned 8 of them and last year for the first time I tried wide 16 inch tyres. I was not pleased with the performance. I find that the unit wanders a lot. Dixon said for sure I shoul{_dn't use bias ply tyres, but these are radials and they still don't give the kind of service I expected. Dixon is gong to check with a member of the Ottawa Culb who has had good results with some kind of Petro Canada look alike. Watch for his answer to me and you should get some ruseful tips. The problem of distance to the seat from the floor in the 88 has always been a problem and always will. The only solution I think is to buy a 109 since the bulk head is about 2" further back. You can notice the difference if you put on the little 1/2 ton type roof. It doesn't fit the 88 without an adapter plate because it fits right on the bulk head of the 109. Some times after market seats help, but from my experience they only add to the problem. I use the delux seats in mine, and they are much better than the older square squibs which come with the vehicle. The delux ones are dished in rather than out and they are softer and have much superior lateral support for rough roads. One of my problems has been and still is, is the seat belt. I have the three point hitch which attaches at the door sill and the devider wall. I too am in the 6 foot range, and the belt is too short and more importantly if the vehicle gets a side hit, you will be cut in half shen the seat belt get shortened by the bending of the side wall. I actually feel safer with no seat belt. I'd like to hear how others have overcome this problem. Does anyone have experience rebuilding the two circuit brake master cylendar. I did mine with a new trip valve and rubbers etc, and now ehen I push it in with a screwdriver it won't return unless I hit it on the work bench. Should the internal springs be strong enough to return the plunger. I haven't used it on my machine because I am using a cylendar from an amarican motors car quite successfully and I am just building this one to get back to more original. By the way if others need to replace their master cylendar, use the American Motors one off about a 1970 model and it bolts right on. It has the right fluid volume and everything. I have run mine for two years without problems. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 19 10:44:01 1994 Date: Sun, 19 Jun 1994 10:07:49 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: tire advise To: "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> Cc: all lro in the usa In-Reply-To: <940618223129_71773.3457_FHM70-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO More on Tyres. I should have said in the above message that the wide tyres I didn't like were General Ameri 550 AS lt 245/75R16 Mud and snow Load Range E. The wander terribly. Good ones from my experiece have been my Dunlop 600x16 and the best were Firestone 650x16. I know that Land Rover recommends the latter two and they really perform well. The are an agressive tread however and are noisy on dry pavement. In 15 inch I use G78 15 tyres and they perform just fine. I hope others will join the conversation on this one because I am also in the need of new rubbers and will be interested in others experiences here. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 19 17:19:46 1994 Date: 20 Jun 1994 10:09:50 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: Re[2]: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >Date sent: 18 Jun 1994 13:15:58 -0500 (EST) >From: llevitt@idcresearch.com >Subject: Re[2]: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II >Forwarded to: DEAND@kea.lincoln.ac.nz >To: deand@ono.lincoln.ac.nz, > Grettir Asmundarson >Copies to: lro@transfer.stratus.com > >Are older Range Rovers available in NZ at similar bargain prices? > >Lee >llevitt@idcresearch.com I just sold my '71 Rangey for NZ$10,000. Is US$5,000 a bargain price? Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 19 18:37:38 1994 Date: 20 Jun 1994 11:26:20 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: rovers in new zealand To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO Netters, I've received several responses to my post on LandRovers in NZ. I have no idea whether they are cheap compared to world prices so I thought I would relay a few ads and let you decide (there were 11 in Saturday's Christchurch Press and that is not unusual). All prices are in NZ$ (approx NZ$1 = US$0.55) 1977 LWB f/deck 2.25 petrol, original $4995 1974 SWB 2.25 petrol, tidy original cond $4995 SII SWB H/top, excellent cond. $3950 1976 SIII SWB T/cab, bull bars, dual fuel tanks $4000 1964 LWB H/top, excellent cond. $3750 1957 SI w/Series II motor and g-box 7ft flat deck ideal for feeding hay or firewood $1250 SII LWB 10 seater diesel Nissan SD25, radial tyres, winch $5500 SIIa SWB hard top, FWH, twin tanks extras $4800 SII LPG/petrol, FWH, winch, good runner $3500 1964 SIIa V8, cood cond $4500 1954 SI w/SII motor, fully reconditioned $4200 and although most of you won't believe it I also noticed another one in the Personals under "Woman Seeking Partner": LANDROVER, 1954 model, body rough, good motor, ideal for rural/farm setting, reliable, seeks man with christian values. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 19 21:03:59 1994 Date: 20 Jun 1994 13:54:58 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Still no luck with LRO Digest To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO OK, so what am I doing wrong? I followed Mr. Callocia's (sp?) instructions and sent a message to the address I thought was correct and received this. >Date sent: 15 Jun 1994 13:22:05 +1200 >From: PMDF Mail Server >Subject: Undeliverable mail: SMTP delivery failure >The message could not be delivered to: > >Addressee: lro-digest-request@uk.chunnel.stratus.com >Reason: Illegal host/domain name found. Then I realised that the uk.chunnel and chunnel.uk were reversed.... >IFF you send a note to lro-digest-request@uk.chunnel.stratus.com >you get a reply from Majordomo (as below) >Then you email a message to "Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com" with the >body text (not subject) as > > subscribe lro-digest ....so I tried two more permutations. I've received a host of different errors but what I'd really like to do is subscribe to the lro-digest. Has anyone successfully received the digest and could they tell me how they did it? Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 01:11:19 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: US Nat'l Rally To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 00:01:44 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Jun 17, 94 10:12:10 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 556 Sender: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu Status: RO To Dave and others who need info on the National Rally: finger me (i.e. "finger tomills@diana.cair.du.edu"), or tap into the web at http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 (courtesy of Greg Hiner, who has other FAQ stuff mounted there). And thanks to all for horror stories about springs. You've convinced me to save my knuckles and have it done professionally. At age 28, all four have given up the ghost. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 06:00:33 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Scope of List To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 11:50:50 BST Status: RO Sorry,Teriann,but I have to disagree with your suggestion that OVLR club members go elswhere to talk.For these reasons:- Club activities are to a large degree what keeps the Land Rover world going.All the LR mags (well,both of them,anyway)feature club news in each edition.And after all,it *is* interesting to hear what people actually *do* with their vehicles.Mine,by comparison leads a very boring life,going "offroad",if it can be called such,only to get down the farm track each day to check whether my horse still has her full complement of legs,etc.The reason for this limited off raod activity is that the thing is run on a shoestring,and I just cant afford to incur self inflicted damage. But I *do* find it interesting to read of those who do,and submit that there *is* a plce on this list for such. Secondly,I would not like to see the list become merely a catalogue of repairs,along the lines of"how do I replace my starboard thrupple nut using only my left thumb and a fire hardened stick"sort of thing,for the Nth time.Usefull though this is,(and it is *very* useful)it is not,IMO, the sole reason for existance of the list. As for toys and models,well,I dont collect them myself,although I will admit to the ownership of a Corgi 110,but being a Model Engineer(lapsed, but still interested),I can appreciate the pleasure this activity can give. I've always been surprised at the restraint shown by the anarchy.Lovely word!Bit of the old buck now and then,agreed,but it never seems to go on too long,to me anyway,and it livens thing up a bit.Lets face it,if you *really* want an instance of irrelevancy,how about Mr Dimbleby doing a complete page article in LRO about his *coat*,no less!Compared to that the merits or otherwise of various beverages are essential data:-) The coordinates of this place are well known for the inevitable artillery stonk after I've siad this,no doubt,just PLEASE dont hit the bar.... Talking of LRO,has anyone in the UK got this months issue yet?I'm interested to know,because I got last months on the 30th,and this months was *supposed* to come out on the 16th.I want to establish whether it is LRO itself,or my,possibly dozy,newsagent. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 06:57:28 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 20 Jun 94 23:33:30 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Nuts, Videos, & Blondes Content-Type: Text Status: RO This weekend's projects included washing, vacuuming, and cruising back roads with the top down. I didn't even turn a wrench this weekend. Boy, I really enjoy driving the 88 sans top in warm weather. Anyway, it was too hot to attempt the spring replacement (high 90s). I'll have to think up some other excuse for next weekend. Hub Nut Wrenches: Someone wrote the week before last about JC Whitney carrying locking hubs for Land Rovers (#85XX1338A @ $71.95). When looking it up I noticed that they also carry "British Land Rover Spindle Nut Wrenches" (#75XX3337T @ $8.98). That sure gave me a start. This was the first time I had seen that listed. Phone 312-431-6102. Tread Lightly Video Package: I just received my 2 video tape package from Tread Lightly (1-800-966-9900). For $20 ($25 w/o a membership) I received: "Tread Lightly - Where the Pavement Ends". Fairly educational. Provides common sense tips re treading lightly with dirt bikes, 4x4s (Jap only) mountain bikes, ATVs, and snowmobiles. Not enough to get your blood going, except for the delicious blonde commentator that we'd all like to have helping pitch our tents out on the trail (except maybe for Jan & Terri Ann. You two may prefer the male commentator). When she first appeared, I got so exited, I almost dropped my Series III parts manual! "The Great Divide Expedition". This is all Range Rovers and one 110 Station Wagon travelling through the Colorado Rockies. Fantastic scenery and great off-road footage. Even more than in this year's Camel Trophy Video. Got me really psyched to go off-roading in... New Jersey? Hmmm... Hey Jan! You used to live in NJ. Where did you take your young guys a-courtin' when you wanted to have your way with them???? :-) Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 09:48:31 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:30:03 +0100 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: Robertslab Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO Unsubscribe me, please. -Brian Monks ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 09:51:23 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 09:52:25 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Rover on the telly Status: RO Andy Warhol once said that in the future, everyone will be famous for 15 minites. Well, over the weekend, my Rover achieved that level of fame, if only for 5:47. Seems that the Discovery Channel was filming in rural Suffolk on Sunday, and they needed a prop for several segments of their "Archaeology" series. My Rover figures prominently in three segments: one dealing with Antietam Battlefield, another with Angkor Wat and a third with the Sphinx. John Rhys Davis, the heavy-set Welsh actor best known as Indiana Jones' companion in the "Raiders..." movies ("Indy, why does the floor seem to move?..."), narrates. He also owns four Land Rovers, three on the Isle of Mann, one in Kenya. In three 'teasers,' 15 sec. cutaways introducing the upcoming segment ("...coming up next on Archaeology."), the Rover is just over his shoulder in front of a tent supposedly on location at a dig. In three or four other scenes, John Rhys either starts the narration leaning on the passenger door or finishes it there. Yours truly didn't get on camera, though I almost did have a go with the executive producer ("I need the jeep moved now....") By later in the day, it had become a "Range Rover!" Maybe the director was becoming a bit addled by then, as we spent a full day in the hot Suffolk sun to get less than 10 min. on film. The segments are scheduled to air on the Discovery channel sometimes in September. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 09:57:29 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 09:48:18 -0500 To: David John Place From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: tire advise Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >plunger. I haven't used it on my machine because I am using a cylendar >from an amarican motors car quite successfully and I am just building this >one to get back to more original. By the way if others need to replace >their master cylendar, use the American Motors one off about a 1970 model >and it bolts right on. It has the right fluid volume and everything. I >have run mine for two years without problems. Dave VE4PN Though this might only be of interest to those in NA - I would like to see a concise list of those american parts that can be used on Rovers. Nothing against original parts (I have used plenty of them) but it is nice to have some backup. If you like - send me the things you know about - and I will put them in a list and post. I will also archive it on the RoverWeb. Best - Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 11:32:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Ma says NO! From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:47:14 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Dixon, Any chance you or someone from your club can set up an Ottawa Land Rov > club & friends mail list for local gossip? I'm not trying to toss you guys o I will see what is involved in setting up a mailing list here. Not sure what software or scripts need to be developed. Will keep you informed... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 11:30:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 10:49:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson writes: > Now to see if I can get off work for a month... > > P.S. 109's are somewhat hard to come by in England. Are they any > more prevalent in NZ? Keeping the first line in mind, in eastern Canada the distribution of Land Rovers in terms of what is most common to least would be the following (from Ted Rose who knows a lot more about availability of vehicles than I do): swb hard top with the sealed windows in the rear lwb station wagon swb station wagon lwb pick-up swb pick-up Hmmm, maybe I should go through all of the OVLR membership renewals and get a tally of what vehicles are owned by the club. The only slight drawback is that it is incomplete. I only have five or six lines for vehicles and there are a few in the club with more than ten Land Rovers. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 12:18:40 1994 From: Richard Worthington Subject: unsubscribe To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 10:00:04 PDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO Unsubscribe -- Richard Worthington richard@venice.sedd.trw.com TRW (310) 764-3573 Software Engineer TRW DH5/2638 STACCS One Space Park, Redondo Beach, CA 90278 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 13:19:41 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 13:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Sender: Steven M Denis Reply-To: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: tire advice To: "benjamin g. newman" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> Cc: all lro in the usa In-Reply-To: <940618223129_71773.3457_FHM70-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO My advice on tires???? DONT LET MIKE L. DRIVE YOUR TRUCK!!!!!! (just kidding folks,I would have blown all 4..Mike is an"ace" driver,it was me shouting"GO! GO! FLOOR IT!!!!!....) As you and I both will need tires (thanks Dixon,we made it on your spare) I will give you my plan and insight on the matter....I am stuck with 16 inch only option...a 109sw really will not work with anything less...I was running 7.50-16 Goodyear wrangler AT's(All Terrain) The thought was that the handling with the radials would improve on the road(it did) and with the radial"flex" the offroad(mud)performance would be good(NOT...hence,go go floor it etc....) The same tire is offered in a 235-16 and is the same diameter but a smige larger across...the reason I special ordered the 7.50's was that the 235's will hit the frame on full lock where the 7.50's will not...you can adjust the steering stops,but the turning radius is bad enough now....these tires are very quite on the road,and if you have a winch(WITH the driveshaft...)to get you throuogh the REAL mud,I can recommend them....I did run these very tires on an 88 an found them to be fine......I would however, recommend the "MT" version of the same tire as it also is silent on the road(well,you can't hear it over the roar of everything else) but seem MUCH better in MUDDDY MUDDDDDD! The trouble that we had at the B'day party was the side walls on all radials are VERY flimsy(check the specs. on the tire side wall,often ONE ply side walls) and can be torn by nasty canadian rocks and sticks.... If I had to have my life depending on NO side wall punctures I would go with 8 or 10 ply bias ply tires....they have as many plys in the side as under the tread...BUT WOW DO THEY RIDE HARD!!!!!! I will still run radials as I do not intend to cross the Sahara any time soon... One final thought on the punctures...We were the heaviest vehicle there,I think,the only other 109sw was Dixon's with only 2 on board(no rear seat Dixon? what ever were you thinking lad.....)where we had 6 and full jerry cans etc. . We were running 55 psi in all tires and the max. inflation is 80 psi...the side walls on the road were not bulged out,but they most likley bulged out when we took the BIG bounce in the middle of the mud. lesson? try the max inflation pressure next time...may work,may just make a bigger BANG...... AND.....I have taken ABUSE for years for carting two spares....well you see what happens when you leave them home....they had done duty the weekend before to replace the "charcoal" tires on the towed 109 2dr... AND for some reason, the bolts on the bonnet are not long enough to hold down the 15" spare that we DID bring.....any Ideas here???? that is why we lost it on"boggy bounce blvd." 'nuff steve....... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 12:53:03 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 10:41:48 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Unsubscribe Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from the Land Rover list. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 12:25:14 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 21 Jun 94 04:54:33 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Cc: CXKS46A@prodigy.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Newsletter Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO Sandy Grice shared with me: >> Bill...don't waste time/money on the Whitless spindle nut wrench. Bought one eons ago, only to find out it's made of sheet metal with a hole in one end you pass a screwdriver thru to make a spanner). It failed on the first really tight nut. By comparison the "official" RN unit is made of tool steel, with a 3/4" square drive. >> Sandy, Thanks for the lowdown on the JC Whitney spindle nut wrench. You just saved me a few bucks. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 12:20:11 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 11:56:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Oil Coolers To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406171648.LAA01391@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Oil "FOOLER" huh?.....I have grave doubts about the land rover set up.....here is how it SEEMS to work... the oil comes out of the engine via a sandwich adapter * between the oil filter adapter and the block...(all items marked with a "*" mean extra oil leaks)this leads to me asking if this is now an adapter adapter.....from here a threaded adapter * is attached to a steel line with a commpression fitting * the steel line goes around the engine to the left side and meets with a flexible line with a compression fitting * ...The flex line goes to an adapter bolted to a bracket on the left inner fender and meets it with a compression fitting * in a threaded adapter * in the adapter! it the side of this bracketed adapter is a compression nut fitting * for the capillary tube used by the oil temp. gauge...the outlet of the adapter has another thread adapter * and a comptession fitting * to another steel line....this steel line goes up to the oil cooler and attachs to the oil cooler * But WAIT!!! the fitting on the inlet of the cooler is a muli-part affair conataining the oil pressure relief valve..so add **** ! the oil drains through the cooler and leaves the cooler through a steeline w/ fitting * and joins an armored flex line * that returns to the oil pan (sump) with a banjo fitting ** (2 *'s for both sides of the banjo bolt!) Whew!!!!!! is it any wonder that they LEAK!!!!!!! the operation of the cooler is this.....the original oil pressure relief valve is set to a higher pressure than normal to act as a safty valve only. The oil that is excess to the engines needs is normally dumped back into the sump(actually back in to the inlet of the pump...don't jump down my throat Mr Maloney! I'm telling a story not making an engineering analisys!) but in the oil cooler set up,the excess oil goes through all the pipes to the oil pressure valve in the cooler which now allows the excess oil to return to the sump via the oil cooler....this oil in the cooler is not under pressure and returns under the pressure of gravity. The oil pressure valve only allows oil to "dump" when the pressure exceeds the preset level...approx. 50-60 psi. Those with pressure gauges will notice that at low rpm the oil pressure will not reach the level at which the relief valve opens and even more to the point, when HOT.may NEVER reach the point of relief! In cold wearher, the oil thickens and MORE oil will go through the relief system......are we doing something STRANGE here folks?????? so in cold weather we get oil cooling and when the oil gets hot it will never get a trip to the cooler....was this invented by the same department that designed the HEATER??????? Cooked toes in July,frozen toes in February.....really......... This is not a "full flow" system meaning that the oil from the pump has a choice between the relief system or the engine,with the engine taking presendence over the cooler.... I do not feel that You are apt to ever need an oil cooler and that the added complexity and chance of engine failure due to leaks is enough to prevent me from recommending one to you. be cool... steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 14:15:23 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: tyres From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 12:32:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO _________ Dear Fellow Members I just received from the UK [Warwick 4X4] a rebuilt 1962 88' wagon which has bad re-capped tires.Is it ok to put on 750x16 radials on this car? I live in orlando fl and I am having a most dificult time finding a store that sells this size.Also wht brand is best? I will be driving 90% on the road and approx. 10% off road. Also I find the front seat to close for my comfort.....I'm 73 inches tall;is there anything simple i can do to add to my comfort. Thanks for the help. Benjamin g. Newman PS My LR has been restored to a series 111 condition. _______ I have recently changed my badly worn tyres with a set of 7.50x16 Kelly Safari AWR. Apart from being the only affordable tyres I could find here in 7.50x16, they seem to be good quality radial M+S tyres for general use, on road and off-road. I'm not an expert, but I can tell you that now my 88 is a driveable car on-road. Kelly is a US manufacturer, owned by Good Year (so I'm told). I had my tyres for approx. 130 US$ each, they should be cheaper in the US. The big plus with 7.50x16 tyres is a little more speed and ground clearance. With an overdrive, I can push my 88 diesel at 100-110 km/h (if the road is flat....). I have your same problem with height. I'm 188 cm (74 inches), and I had to get accustomed with My Landy's driving position.....I think there's nothing you can do apart from trading your car for a 90....:) I have fitted hi-back front seats with a headrest, and they make a big difference. I bought them from Birmingham Land Rover Services for 49.95 u each, but a cheaper way is to adapt used seats (I'm told that Volvo seats fit well). I had an accident some months ago with my mother's car, and without a headrest I would still be wearing a neck collar.... _________________________________________________________ __________________________ |--------------------------| 1984 /____________________________\ Series III || || || 88 || || || Land Rover || || || Station Wagon ||______ ______||______ ______|| |______ / ______ \ ______| | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| | ||___|______|___|| | | | \__|______|__/ | | |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| |__________________________________| | | | | | | | | ____|____|______________________|____|___________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo via Serbelloni 8 - 20122 Milan, Italy ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it _________________________________________________________ --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Solution for Multilingual Messages From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 13:49:34 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 14:28:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Please delete me,let me go..... To: landrovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO HEY! NO FAIR! I asked before TeriAnn did! and it best not be ladies FIRST! on 2nd thought I'll stay...ok ...I want to stay to see how this comes out.... THEN unsubcribe me..... Thanks... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 14:11:03 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 11:33:52 PST From: Brad Krohn To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: A new LR owner Status: RO Text item: Text_1 I've been lurking for a couple of weeks now, without enough time to say HI, so here it is: My wife and I recently purchased a '69 IIa 88 ('Bug Eye'). I think I've seen someone else with a similar model, but what can anyone else tell me about it. It appears to be one of the early "federalized" models -- apart from the bug-eyes (no recesses for the wing-mounted headlamps), it has a couple of emissions stickers in the engine compartment. From what the 12/93 LRO mag said, these actually were made in '68 and the recesses were added a year later. Is that right? Brad Krohn & Deb Shannon Hillsboro, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 18:02:56 1994 Date: 20 Jun 94 18:50:49 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: DAVID DEAN Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Still no luck with LRO Digest Status: RO >I've received a host of different errors but what I'd really like to do is >subscribe to the lro-digest. ...same here, buddy (wish I could say something more encouraging). I also sent a subscribe-request straight to Majordomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com forgoing the lro-digest-request@whatever - business, but to no avail so far. Looks like old Majordomo is a real no-go. I mailed Bill Caloccia on this a while ago, but no reply yet. Guess he's out enjoying one of Englands rare spells of fine summer weather they're experiencing over there right now (can't blame him). See you around, Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 20 20:44:12 1994 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 18:39:26 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: tires Status: RO While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 00:36:24 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 01:28:23 EDT Subject: OVLR Birthday Bash Status: RO Whoopee!! we made it back alive.. I'd like to take this oppurtunity to thank the OVLR for a very memorable (if not a bit itchy) time at thier birthday party. I would have sent this out last night but I was "too tired".. :) You guys sure know how to have fun in the mud. Even with all the heat and bugs (mosquitos the size of crows!) I'm still smiling. Russell... I hope you and your lady enjoyed the ride in the back of the 109. I don't usually romp on it that hard but Steve did say "lots of Welli". To everyone on this side of the border who could have gone but didn't... you missed a good time.. Ha Ha! Now, as a side note... TeriAnn... quit complaining about all the banter about the beer. It's an important subject to our neighbors in the north. No matter how deep the trucks got mired or how slow the winches moved you could always count on someone to say "How about a beer, eh." Granted, we only went 7/10 of a mile in 7 hours but everyone did have a good time. Cheers... Mike Loiodice From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 09:06:50 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 09:53:41 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: Robertslab Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO Unsubscribe me please. ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 08:23:21 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: tires To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 6:15:31 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406210139.AA18622@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jun 20, 94 6:39 pm Status: RO I have installed 230/70 r16 BF goodrich tyres on mine, and have not had any issues. I did have it off road in Big Bend Texas and they performed well. Russ > > > While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything > other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? > > John > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 09:58:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: tire advice From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 08:55:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > My advice on tires???? DONT LET MIKE L. DRIVE YOUR TRUCK!!!!!! > (just kidding folks,I would have blown all 4..Mike is an"ace" driver,it > was me shouting"GO! GO! FLOOR IT!!!!!....) So, I gather that you enjoyed the Birthday Party... :-) Next year, to save on the time that was spent at some of the mud holes, and assuming that we use Dolan's property again (the swimming hole makes it very appealing) the heavy off-road will be done in one of several fashion. 1. Vehicles like Harry's will be politely suggested to stick to the light off-road that we did Sunday morning. Some vehicles are just too heavy (Harry with 1/2" plate welded around his frame, though not on the front horns), or just not prepared with inadequate tires (Earnie by his own admission. 2. People will be told that if they do go on the heavy off-road, expect damage. While every effort is made to keep things nice and safe for us and our vehicles, shit happens. 3. The mud run, assuming thirteen vehicles again, will go in one of three formats, which one to be determined at the time depending on the condition of the course: a. All vehicles with winches go first. The first vehicle winches itself through, and then stays and helps all of the following vehicles through. A disadvantage now that you have a winch in the back, but... b. Go in groups of four vehicles, a vehicle with a winch in the front of the other three. It gets through, pulls the rest through. The three following vehicles pull off into the woods to allow the winch vehicle back in front. c. The vehicles with winches leave 1/2 hour in advance. They set themselves up, one per off-road hazard. The disadvantage here is that the driver of a vehicle has to sit around for a while. So, what are your impressions of the little gathering? Might as well get Russell's too (See, we didn't have a BMW pull... :)) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 10:33:44 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: RE: tires Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 16:26:57 UNDEFINED Status: RO >>While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything >>other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? I have had Goodyear Wranglers on for the last 35000 miles, and it looks like they'll stil be there in another 350000 since they still have 8mm tread on em!!!!! They are adequate off road for mild occasional stuff, and I cant fault em on the road - particularly with that wear rate...... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 10:40:33 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 09:30:42 -0600 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: "David L. Dean" Subject: Re: rovers in new zealand Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO Thank you, David, for posting those NZ Land Rover prices. The most expensive LR you listed was US$3025.00. This Sunday in the Salt Lake Tribune there was a Series IIa 109 Station Wagon in average condition for US$8500.00, and that was the first LR that I've seen advertised in Utah in over three years. So, you can see that both price and availability point to New Zealand. The one that caught my eye was the "1964 LWB H/top, execellent condition for $3750." That is exactly the sort of vehicle that I'm looking for. I'm calling around to travel agents and auto transport companies to get pricing on airline tickets and shipping. Hopefully, the budget will allow an exotic car safari soon. Of course, it is winter in New Zealand right now, isn't it?... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 10:44:38 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 08:33:52 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: OVLR Birthday Bash Status: RO TeriAnn wasn't the only person who was tired of the 'beer' discussion going on...she was only the 'vocal' one. The rat hole that developed about 'beer' had noting to do with Land Rover's and was a waste of internet bandwith for those of us who are on this list for Land Rover information/adventures. Bruce Harding Now, as a side note... TeriAnn... quit complaining about all the banter about the beer. It's an important subject to our neighbors in the north. No matter how deep the trucks got mired or how slow the winches moved you could always count on someone to say "How about a beer, eh." Granted, we only went 7/10 of a mile in 7 hours but everyone did have a good time. Cheers... Mike Loiodice From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 10:21:10 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: tires Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 08:08:00 PDT Encoding: 9 TEXT Status: RO >While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything >other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? I've had good luck running 215/85-R16 Bridgestone Mud Duellers on mine. They faired well in an recent LRO tire comparison (early '93?). John Rostykus john@Data-IO.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 12:30:32 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 10:23:55 -0700 (MST) From: "P.T. Anderson" Subject: Re: tires To: John Brabyn Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406210139.AA18622@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Mon, 20 Jun 1994, John Brabyn wrote: > > While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything > other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? > > John > I replaced the OEM tyres with 225/75-R16 Wrangler ATs. They handle better offroad then the Michelins did. The tread wear has been better, but I got the Load D rather than the Load C. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 13:27:51 1994 From: "Bryan White" Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 11:16:18 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tires Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO Has anyone tried to put 31x10.5x16 B.F Goodrich Mud Terrains on a Range Rover? I wonder what happens to ride quality? (on road?) How about a set of 33x12.5x16 Super Swamper TSL's with 12"x16" alloy wheels, fender flares and a 4" Suspention Lift? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 15:11:25 1994 Date: 21 Jun 94 15:55:53 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: David John Place Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Parts, serial number Status: RO > frame and the number is 244364266 not 144 as I mentioned in another > letter. If you can check out the year for me I would appreciate it. I Howdy, it so happens that we are in possession of a complete stack of genuine old British Leyland microfilms picked up at a bankruptcy auction (they were stashed away in the drawer of a desk we took along!). So, courtesy of (now defunct) BRANDO Automotives of Holland, here are the details for your serial number #244364266 : * 1964 ser.IIA 88" swb (non-station) 4 cyl.petrol lh-drive export version * Will that do? So long, Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 18:36:05 1994 Date: 22 Jun 1994 11:26:31 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: RE: rovers in new zealand To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >From: Grettir Asmundarson >I'm calling around to travel agents and auto transport companies to >get pricing on airline tickets and shipping. Hopefully, the budget >will allow an exotic car safari soon. Of course, it is winter in New >Zealand right now, isn't it?... Tie-down (open) shipping is usually less expensive than containers so you might check those options. Yep, its winter.....I went skiing yesterday and may go back tomorrow. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 20:01:26 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 20:50:43 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Warning: THE SURGEON GENERAL HAS DETERMINED THAT THE Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO FOLOWING MESSAGE CONSISTS WHOLLY OR PARTLY OF BANTER. BANTER IS KNOWN TO CAUSE NAUSEA, FATIGUE, VIRTIGO, AND BLINDNESS. YOUR SUSCEPTIBILITY TO THE SUBJECT OF BANTER IS DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL TO YOUR MOOD AT THE TIME OF ITS READING AND HAS NOTHING TO DO AT ALL WITH WHAT YOU MAY THINK OF ITS AUTHOR. Having said that, and having thence put forth an adequate warning, I shall now break my pledge of a day or so ago- but just this once. ******************************************************* A NAIEVE AMERICAN'S IMPRESSIONS OF AN OVLR EVENT ******************************************************* Before you start reading this I suggest you find that old record of national anthems you thought you'd never need and put on "Oh Canada". Say you don't have one?? Then put on an Expos or Jays game and tape the first few minutes of it. For those of you in foreign lands, well, I guess you're SOL, but maybe you've got an old tape of an Olympic event that a Canadian won (does this *ever* happen?). In any case, play the record (or tape) fifty times or so, at 78 speed even, until you feel distinctly Canadian-aye? Canada is an absolutely marvelous place. No sooner do you cross the border from the US than you are hit with a fifty foot wide sign reading "METRIC CONVERSION: 60 EQUALS 100". Boy do I like that concept. It applies to everything from the money in your pocket to the speed at which you travel. Such a deal. Canadians themselves quite naturally come in all shapes and sizes, each one breaking the mold from which they were formed. Consequently, you'll find that no two canadians are alike, but a common thread sewing Hospitality (with a big H) holds them all together. Canadians share a most open and friendly attitude towards others, even us americans, that allows you to stike up a coversation with anyone at anytime about anything at all. I had a most enjoyable time just listening to the banter (all banter) that was going on around me....listening as I let my mind float along with the accent. They KInd of TAlk like THIS, YaNO, and it really is fun to listen to. It has the dance of a sweedish accent, which most of us probably despise, smoothed out with some of the french, which we all probably despise even more, but something distilled from the two results that is not at all offensive. I do wish I could say the same for us americans, but alas, I cannot. This OVLR birthday bash was everything it was cracked up to be: FUN AND MUD. In an OVLR member's mind the two are inseparable....fun goes good with mud, and mud goes really good with fun. Others on this list have given you glimpses of the "play by play" that may be getting the message across. I'll only add a few (just a few) comments to set your impressions well in stone. I arrived with the sig other at about 12:30 in the afternoon just in time for the off-road event. Quickly paid my fees, signed my life away, and met uncle Steve "Not A Jeep" Denis and his partner in crime, Mike Lunetc (Landrover.awol.com), and two companions whose names escape me right now. We six americans gravitated towards Not a Jeep (methinks they needed the extra weight, but they were only getting about 240 lbs between the two of us) and started off towards the bogs. Soon enough we got to the first hole and watched the first few OVLRs in action. Robin Craig (whom I met minutes earlier with smiles and handshakes but no bloody noses) earlier described this and stated that Dale in his spiffy SIIa sans top with the windscreen down was the first through. My recollection is different, however, but hey, at that point in time I wasn't too sure who anybody was. I thought it was the SIII/SI conversion that made the first plunge....in any event there were a couple of things that immediately impressed me: 1) Canada mud has lots of water on top of it. 2) Canada mud has lots of logs and rocks underneath it. 3) OVLR members are DETERMINED to get through the mud. 4) There is beer awaiting at every mudhole. Now, doesn't this sound like a good recipe for fun? It was a blast just to watch it. Soon enough the first rover was through, turned around, and ready to pull the next. Dave, a Brit from Toronto, was next through the bog and up the steep rock face emerging from it. Here was done the first bit of wing damage as his Landy reared up from the face of the rocks and parked itself against a tree. "Oh pity, I just painted that wing" as he shrugged it off while his kids gave him hell ("What's Ma gonna say now, Dad?"). Little did they know at the time but there was much more to come. Wasn't long before a most contemplative Dixon, canadian-rolled Benson and Hedges in hand, decided we'd best take the "easy" route. So we turned back and moved on to the next hole....a straight shot about 100' long at the edge of a swamp. This is the hole that cost us eight (I thought it was only six) tires. In any event, myself and the sig held on for dear life as Steve, the owner, shouted at Mike, the designated driver, "More Willie, More Willie, Lots.....". We bounced, we plunged, we got some mud on us, but we got through. No sooner did we come to a stop than we heard a bang. Initially I glanced upwards to see if gasoline was spewing forth from a limb- poked and well shook jerry can, but soon realized as I saw the horizon rising that the left side rubber was punctured. No matter, we had a spare, but then discovered we needed two. Apparently, the beavers in this territory are so fed up with OVLR antics that they've taken to using the tricks you used to see in old Tarzan flicks.....putting submerged sharp objects in the well worn path of the offending jungle beast so as to cripple it, thence track it down, hack it to death, and feed it to the natives. Dixon forked over his spare spare that with added air got us out (and the Not A Jeep home). Onwards the convoy of a dozen or so moved to rendevous with those that made it through the first hole. We then arrived at the "4-hour hole" that wasn't much longer than the others but lots deeper and with more surprises. One by one these crazed OVLR pilots plunged into the hole, like brazen cowboys riding iron pigs, rearing, squeeling, bucking their way through the muck and mire. Dear mother earth was flying everywhere, but with one good rain it'll all end up back where it used to be and the swamp will look as it was-just like it had been driven through. Few of the Landys made it through un-winched. Tom, a non-netter who oughta be, was the first to make it through unscathed in his 109. Tom used the most admirable "just don't let it stop" technique and went forward, reverse, forward, reverse, and OUT as cheers erupted from the mud-soaked crowd. A few winchings later Doc Watson in a dingy SI cruised right through so fast and sure I didn't even see it (was on my way for a beer at the time and couldn't believe my ears as cheers erupted again). Only one or two others made it through without help, and several got "well and truely stuck" as advertised. One of the highlights for me occurred while attempting to push Harry (aka Headwound Harry) out of the hole. I asked, in all seriousness, "what is he on?" referring to what he was stuck on, and Ernie, in equally serious tone, replied "'e's got a headwound". I looked over at Ernie, who wasn't even smiling-the guy was completely serious! It was at that point that I started to wonder if having a headwound was a prerequisite for this event, or for OVLR membership at least. It occurred to me that an OVLR member's idea of a *really good time* would be to get youself neck deep in mud with your landy in the midst of a downpour with nothing at all but a can of WD40 and enough bug dope to make it 'til daylight. These people aren't just crazy, folks, THEY'RE NUTS! Anyway, by now I've bored you with this account but I've just one more highlight to offer. Eventually Dixon and his Benson and Hedges made the decision to turn the remaining rigs back (there were about five more to go, dinner was on, and the bugs were biting). Me, the sig, and a few others stayed behind to untangle Dave's (the Brit from Toronto) winch and thence catch a ride out. Upon emerging from the bush he looked over at me and the sig and politely asked "Go for a wash?" We assumed he meant take a ride to the swimming hole we'd heard about all day long and with ourselves covered in sweat, DEET, and mud in that order we obliged. I, having a keen sense of direction, soon realized we were not heading back to camp, and as as we passed by a lake I began to get nervous. Oh boy, good thing me and the sig can swim. Wasn't long before we, in his SIII 88 followed by Tom, the skillful driver in his 109, started into the lake. No big deal, I thought, we'll just be going straight across-about 80 feet or so. Then Dave turns 90 degrees north and takes a leisurely drive the long way through the entire stretch, water up to the tops of the doors. The sig put her hand out the window and played in the water as I dreamed of the possibility of trolling from the back of an 88. A hundred heartbeats later we made it out, opened the doors to drain it, and laughed like hell. Back at camp we washed up and dined on a splendid feast of bbq chicken, pork, taters, and cole slaw, all canadian style. Many, many thanks to Bates, Eve, MC, and the others whom I didn't catch for putting on such a wonderful meal and for feeding us an equally hearty breakfast the next morning. Thanks also to Dixon, Dale, Robin, Tom, Dave, Harry, JJ, Roy, Michelle, Ted, and all the rest of the OVLR members for showing us a really good time. Rgds, rd/eg/gretchen (the rotting 318 you spared) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 22:11:15 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 20:03:51 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Leaking Rochester Status: RO My newly rebuilt rochester seems to be leaking gas around the gasket. I have have tried torquing the screws down a little each week but it still leaks. One interesting thing is that I get theses microscopic bubbles around the gasket. Vance Chin Series III 88 with leaking carb From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 22:30:44 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 20:21:35 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Series III NADA Schematic Found! Status: RO I was having trouble with brake light switch wiring a while back and I really needed (wanted) a schematic for it. The ones in the books did not match at all. Just recently I found in one of the books I received from the previos owner the schematic. It was in the "Owner's Instruction Manual Supplement To USA Specification" (PN 605737), this one is particular to the 88 station wagon. The pictures show a series IIa though. It also has the Hazard switch shown that has been removed and I will probubly not put it back. Vance Chin Series III with Leaking Carb From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 21 22:57:23 1994 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 22:42:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Parts, serial number To: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> Cc: land-rover-owner-list In-Reply-To: <940621195553_100043.2400_BHJ46-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Thanks for the info on my 88 Stefan. It has had so many modifications that I was no longer sure what it was. It has had the outer fenders with recessed lights added but it kept the IIA inner lights as well. It has power assisted brakes and an update to the dash. It has the newer black leather seats. I went to an earlier engine because the old one threw a rod through the block, and I used the heaver IIA transmission than it came with. It has had a new loden green paint job and new wheels in sand as well as the stationwagon top in sand with safari rack, winch in facing single jump seats. It looks showroom. The next work for it is a rebuild of the running gear and brakes. AT this point I will have a new Land Rover. Thanks for the info. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 00:34:30 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 07:32:45 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: tires Cc: lro@stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > On Mon, 20 Jun 1994, John Brabyn wrote: > > > > > While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything > > other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? > > > > John > > > > I replaced the OEM tyres with 225/75-R16 Wrangler ATs. They handle > better offroad then the Michelins did. The tread wear has been better, > but I got the Load D rather than the Load C. Might be a good idea to replace the Michelins on a Range Rover anyway. The details are a bit hazy in my mind but there was a series of pretty dreadful accidents caused by tyre blow-outs on R-Rovers a few years ago.... combo of high speed cruising plus loading the vehicle. Apparantly, the Michelins in question were (a) not properly speed rated and\or weren't designed to take the vehicle's laden weight.... probably the former -- semi-off road tyres that couldn't take prolonged 120-140kph motorway speeds. YMMV, a'course! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 10:51:08 1994 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 11:31:58 +0100 To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) From: Robertslab Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO Dear Alexander, Please let us know more about this rally. I'm sure Rover owners from all over would like to join in on the fun! Would we be able to try out the LRNA off-road course?? -Brian Monks >Yesterday (Tuesday), a group of us went up to Land Rover North America's >headquarters in Lanham, MD to "pitch" them the idea of the mid-atlantic >rally. They were quite receptive and are willing to underwrite a sizeable >portion of the event. However, they would prefer that it be changed to the >Columbus Day weekend in October, as there is insufficient time to properly >publicise the rally. In truth, the event has grown considerably in >concept, and it may be impossible to organize/build everything by August. >Then there was the fire...the adjacent landowner (Chesapeake Corp) held a >prescribed burn on a parcel they cutover several months ago...and it got >out of hand. Our trials course followed the property line for several >hundred yards and it got burnt up. So October seems like a better >date...fall leaves, cooler, no bugs, better weather....and we now have an >1,800 acre parcel nearby that we can use as well (not Chesapeake Corp land). > >After the meeting with the LRNA staff, it was out onto their off-road >course in a new Defender 90 and a Disco. Though it hadn't rained in >several weeks, we still found mud...glutinous, aromatic, old mud...some in >natural bogs, some in pits that hd been purpose-dug to test their machines. > Various bits of Detroit-built iron (bumpers, fenders and other bits) were >common around the biggest holes. All of us were used to older Rover >vehicles...the newest amongst us is 22 years old...and none were used to >the responsiveness provided by Solihull' s newest. On our older vehicles, >you mash the gas pedal and a short while later you get some revs. With >these fuel injected babies, power is immediate. However, the power >steering reduces the feedback to the driver, and as the steering is so >effortless, it is easy to over steer in low-traction situations (ie, mud to >the sills). In one word, the 90 can be best described as "nimble." The >Disco, "luxurious" as I have never been mud-bogging in air conditioning >before! (Or driven 80 mph in a Rover for that matter!) Anyway, driving >back to headquarters with the sparkling new vehicles totally slathered in >mud provided quite a sight. > > > *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* > | | > | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | > | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | > | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | > *------------------------------------------------------* ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 09:27:29 1994 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 10:06:05 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally Status: RO Yesterday (Tuesday), a group of us went up to Land Rover North America's headquarters in Lanham, MD to "pitch" them the idea of the mid-atlantic rally. They were quite receptive and are willing to underwrite a sizeable portion of the event. However, they would prefer that it be changed to the Columbus Day weekend in October, as there is insufficient time to properly publicise the rally. In truth, the event has grown considerably in concept, and it may be impossible to organize/build everything by August. Then there was the fire...the adjacent landowner (Chesapeake Corp) held a prescribed burn on a parcel they cutover several months ago...and it got out of hand. Our trials course followed the property line for several hundred yards and it got burnt up. So October seems like a better date...fall leaves, cooler, no bugs, better weather....and we now have an 1,800 acre parcel nearby that we can use as well (not Chesapeake Corp land). After the meeting with the LRNA staff, it was out onto their off-road course in a new Defender 90 and a Disco. Though it hadn't rained in several weeks, we still found mud...glutinous, aromatic, old mud...some in natural bogs, some in pits that hd been purpose-dug to test their machines. Various bits of Detroit-built iron (bumpers, fenders and other bits) were common around the biggest holes. All of us were used to older Rover vehicles...the newest amongst us is 22 years old...and none were used to the responsiveness provided by Solihull' s newest. On our older vehicles, you mash the gas pedal and a short while later you get some revs. With these fuel injected babies, power is immediate. However, the power steering reduces the feedback to the driver, and as the steering is so effortless, it is easy to over steer in low-traction situations (ie, mud to the sills). In one word, the 90 can be best described as "nimble." The Disco, "luxurious" as I have never been mud-bogging in air conditioning before! (Or driven 80 mph in a Rover for that matter!) Anyway, driving back to headquarters with the sparkling new vehicles totally slathered in mud provided quite a sight. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 13:13:22 1994 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 13:52:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester To: Vance Chin Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406220303.AA19434@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO If the leaks are between the air horn (topmost section) and the bowl(centre section) the float level and or the fuel pressure is incorrect.... it is also possible that the carb gaskets are NG or the gasket surfaces are not flat...to get the carb flat,take a piece of glass with sand paper, like 320 grit or finer and sand the gasket surface on it in a circular swirling motion....you can check the progress toward this end by using a marker to coat the gasket surface. When all the marker is gone, the surface is flat..... Leaks between the bowl and base are usually also related to excess fuel running out of the throttle shaft openings...the fuel level in the bowl is too high and the gas leaks out of the main discharge nozzle and falls(screaming,I suppose) down the throat of the carb and wetting all below.... If you had ever BEEN to Rochester,you would understand the leaks.... :-) HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Tue, 21 Jun 1994, Vance Chin wrote: > > My newly rebuilt rochester seems to be leaking gas around > the gasket. I have have tried torquing the screws down a little > each week but it still leaks. One interesting thing is that > I get theses microscopic bubbles around the gasket. > > Vance Chin Series III 88 with leaking carb From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 13:15:34 1994 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 14:05:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Front axle... To: landrovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Awhile back,someone offered a 109 front axle......did some one else"score" this,or is it still living at home..... methinks it was in Ithaca or something.. I have grind-y brake noise in front and may need those 6 cyl drums....thanks!!!! HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 13:59:42 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Leaking Rochester From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 12:35:02 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I used to have a Rochester on Rudolph a few months ago. I had just rebuilded the carb with new gaskets, jets, etc....But it would still leak. I tried to tighten up the bolts, but it would still leak...Then, I said to myself: It's supposed to leak, it'a Land Rover.. Also, there was no way that I could get the thing tuned properly. It kept disajusting itself. So, I scrapped the Rochester and got a Weber instead. Should have gone with that idea in the first place. Michel Bertrand, Ottawa, with Rudolph............... -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 16:28:55 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Front axle... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 15:32:53 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > Awhile back,someone offered a 109 front axle......did some one else"score" > this,or is it still living at home..... methinks it was in Ithaca or > something.. I have grind-y brake noise in front and may need those 6 cyl > drums....thanks!!!! The grindy brake noise is from the fine clay and mud that you picked up at the OVLR event. You should pull all of the drums and clean out the insides. If you don't do this, look to getting a new set of pads. If anything, the fine (in both senses) mud just chews up brake shoes. By not washing them out you will destroy a set pretty quickly. So, your big war wagon made it home all nice and happy? :-) Next year should even be worse, or better depending on your opinion, with alternatives for those who don't think they should try something like this. Nigel however is expected to attend, or risk being renamed... Either Nigel the Bold, or Nigel the Yellow... :-) Rgds, Dixon. Now to finish the response to Robin's message with details. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 15:57:57 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester Date: 22 Jun 1994 20:47:48 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9406220303.AA19434@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu>, Vance Chin wrote: > > My newly rebuilt rochester seems to be leaking gas around >the gasket. I have have tried torquing the screws down a little >each week but it still leaks. One interesting thing is that >I get theses microscopic bubbles around the gasket. > >Vance Chin Series III 88 with leaking carb Lots of Rochesters do this -- leak between the air horn and the body. I've attributed it to warping of the air horn by over tightening (or maybe normal tightening) the 4 screws that hold it down. Filing or sanding might work, but you'd lose the fine ridge on the horn's sealing surface. I've thought of making a jig that would hold the top piece (air horn) upside down and stress the screw holes in the other direction to pull any warp out. The leak occurs if the float level is correct. I'VE CHECKED several times. Don't know about fuel pressure. I've just got the stock fuel pump, although in my carb, I might change from the viton (rubber) tipped float valve back to steel valve plunger. If you can sort out the leaks, keep the carb. If you have the RIGHT model, it runs great and keeps the setup close to stock (for those of us who care). I've found that those who had poor experience with Rochesters didn't have the smallest version, running too large a jet (use #48, not #52); most poor runners are the large throat/ venturi. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 16:50:18 1994 Date: 22 Jun 94 17:37:03 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Leaking Rochester Status: RO > ... It kept disajusting itself. So, I scrapped the Rochester and got a Weber You literally took the words out of my mouth, I was about to suggest that ! Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 20:03:16 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: tires To: burns@cisco.com (Russell Burns) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 17:51:03 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406211315.AA15431@ash.cisco.com>; from "Russell Burns" at Jun 21, 94 6:15 am Status: RO I mis spoke here I really have LT225/75 r16 106 s mud and snow BF goodrich all terrains Sorry for the confusion, must be from a lack of that great northern beer. (comes in one quart containers and doubles for motor oil.) Russ > I have installed 230/70 r16 BF goodrich tyres on mine, and have > not had any issues. I did have it off road in Big Bend Texas > and they performed well. > > Russ > > > > > > While on the subject of tires, has anyone had experience with anything > > other than the factory Michelin 205-R16's on Range Rovers? > > > > John > > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 22 20:14:48 1994 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 19:56:29 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester To: Michele Bertrand Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4kyBoc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Just a note on the Rochester problem. I have used lots of them and I find that two problems crop up. If you discarded the thick fibre washer under the carb. that Land Rover used to use, the carb gets so hot it sometimes cracks and it leaks. Another thing happens. From time to time they boil the foel and it leaks. Something that recently happened to me was I let the pipe from the vacuum line to the power brake line touch the carb. and the metal was hot enough to cause the bowl to overheat, boil the gas, and leak. It took a week or two to find that one. Don't give up. If you re-drill the jets on them they are bullet proof. Just look at how many old flat head 6s are still running and probably never had a carb rebuild. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 23 07:32:31 1994 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 08:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: RE: Canadian CRAZY CLAY To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > > The grindy brake noise is from the fine clay and mud that you > picked up at the OVLR event. > OH right you are!!!! except that the noise started before I crossed the border.....I went to adjust the brakes,and the front adjusters would turn all the way around....ooooooooooo......(cobblers childern and all that...) > So, your big war wagon made it home all nice and happy? WELL it was happy,but YOU saw it....could it ever be nice????? > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 23 12:28:08 1994 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 13:05:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester To: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@CompuServe.COM> Cc: "INTERNET:mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" , land-rover-owner-list In-Reply-To: <940622213703_100043.2400_BHJ59-3@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO And to add to the confusion, I have had nothing but trouble with the Weber..... they seem to change idle speed via a complex formula involving phases of the moon and the dollar/lira exchange rate..... LOVED the webers (38 DCnlf-5's) that I had on my VW...so it's not a"my carb is better than your carb" thing....I'm thinking on developing a throttle body injection set up for the 2.25....anyone interested in this idea? HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On 22 Jun 1994, Stefan R. Jacob wrote: > > ... It kept disajusting itself. So, I scrapped the Rochester and got a > Weber > > You literally took the words out of my mouth, I was about to suggest that ! > > Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> > LROC of Hessen > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 23 13:45:14 1994 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 15:35:43 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Newfoundland trip Status: RO Some time ago I read a reference to someone taking a trip to NewFoundland While house cleaning I discovered two topographic maps of on end of the island...if the person/people making the trip want to contact me privately I could put them in the mail David S. Antigonish, Nova Scotia From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 23 12:04:05 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 12:51:16 EST Encoding: 1016 Text To: saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com, swedishbricks@me.rochester.edu, lro@stratus.com, rally-l@guvm.ccf.georgetown.edu Subject: where to buy good stuff cheap! Content-Length: 985 Status: RO Fellow netters, For those of you that asked, and even for those that didn't, here are the numbers for two parts sources I've mentioned in previous postings: Imparts - lots of good stuff, including Redline products, best prices on high-powered headlamp bulbs (h4 and 9004) and application specific stuff for bimmers, MBs and Porsches. (800) 325-9043, or for our remote friends (314) 962-0810 Greer Enterprises - mail order for world's finest snow tires, the Nokia Hakka 10s. (Yes, Joe they're studdable!) If you don't spit on yourself when you say that, you're not trying hard enough...Pat Greer is a delight to buy from... (414) 964-7463 (No 800 #, but it's worth it anyway!) Of course, YMMV! Regards and happy shopping! Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com %include disclaimer I am not now, nor have I ever in the past had a financial interest in the above mentioned operation(s). But if enough of you buy lots of stuff, I might be in the future ;-) %end disclaimer From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 11:06:11 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:54:01 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: More LR prices from NZ X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 33 Status: RO Stop it! You're making us crazy. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 12:45:37 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:37:27 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, hiner@mail.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Alternative Parts X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 427 Status: RO Transmission oil seals; These are National Oil Seal/Federal Mogul numbers Atlantic Britsh cat. number CR16254 13 output shaft CR19359 12 trans to transfer case CR6143 573 speedo drive plate Wheel hub seal; 410694 330 U-joints AEC Brand AEC 521 HD 286 U-joint 2 15/16" across (late) AEC 504 3092 U-joint 2 7/32" across (early) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 19:08:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: stubborn spring bolt... From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 23:47:34 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, hello everyone, I have a technical problem. I was working on my 109 SW ex-NADA, (Rudolph's cousin) doing a complete rebuild today (frame was done last year) starting by the rear springs. I haved removed one without any difficulty and was stopped in the process of removing the other one by a stubborn bolt (the last one remaining, of course). It's the bolt that holds the front of the rear spring to the chassis. I have removed the nut on the inner side, but can't even turn the bolt itself. I tried heating it, an impact driver, hammer and punch, jacking up the spring to relieve pressure. Nothing. Rien pantoute. (french expression). It looks, by the feel of the bolt when I try to move it with a ratchet that it's seized to the inner casing of the bushing. (The ratchet springs back, after trying to turn the bolt a little. Any ideas, suggestions, anybody....please...Thanks in advance, I'll keep in touch with you guys for the rest of the rebuild.... Michel Bertrand, Ottawa... -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 01:01:14 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Sender: "UncleBrad" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 01:54:32 EDT Subject: Re: U.S. National Rally Info Status: RO The U.S. National Rally in Colorado will start on Aug 14 & run thru the 21st. It is sponsored by the Land Rover Owners' Assoc, North America, Solihull Society, and the Blue Ridge Land Rover Club. Four days of driving are scheduled, from Grand Junction, CO to Moab, Ut to Alamosa, CO to the Great Sand Dunes Natl Monument. Registration fee is $35 until July 15 and $0 thereafter. For information and registration write: Rover Rally PO Box 1238 Durango, CO 81302 or call Matt Tanner at 303-247-0703 or call David Ritchie at 304-422-0531 If you are interested in joining the LROA,NA writee to LROA Membership PO Box 1144 Paradise, CA 95967 or call Bob or Sue at 916-877-5656 They'll send you a brochure Let them know that you found them through me so they think that I'm really on the ball, OK? Brad Blevins (Newsletter editor for the LROA) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 23 23:31:46 1994 Subject: More LR prices from NZ To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 13:41:31 NZT From: 0000-Hugh Grierson(0000) Content-Length: 2721 Content-Type: text In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at Jun 23, 94 8:13 am Status: RO Here's another list of LR ads, from this week's "Trade & Exchange" in Auckland. Is this of any interest? series 1, swb, Holden mtr, reliable $2300 '52 series 1, recon mtr & diff, no wof®, new off rd tyres, runs well, petrol tank needs repair, $1500 '57, holden 186 mtr, 2 g/boxs, $2000 '61 swb, 2.25 mtr, avg cond $2950 ono '62, flatdeck, wof®, $975 ono '63 SWB, hard top, Valiant mtr, spoked whls 750x16, gd cond, $1475 '66 lwb, flatdeck, recond engine, new clutch & brakes, as is $2500 '66 soft top, Holden 3.3 mtr, Brit racing green, bbars, mags, r/bars, CNG exc cond, $5800 '75, flatdeck, Holden 186 mtr, $6500 '79, lwb, cab, 2.5 diesel, 38000km compl mtr rebuilt, all orig, $7500 II '65, softtop, 24V, exc running, wof®, $4000ono II, immac cond, wof and reg, $2800 ono IIA '71 swb, fwh, petrol/CNG, $5500 IIA 109, flatdeck gd cond, $2800 ono IIA lwb s/w, Holden mtr, hi ratio diffs, o/drive, Desert Duellers, $4200 ono IIA lwb, flatdeck, Nissan diesel & 5spd, MOT cert, new wiring, exc cond, $6250 ono IIA swb, Holden 186 mtr, soft top, roll cage, bullbars, no wof or reg, as is $2100 III '71, lwb flatdeck, petrol, avg cond, runs well needs tidy $3000 ono III '73, swb ute, 2.2L petrol, gen 53000mi, no rust, bullbars, CB, exc tyres $4400 ono III '74 nds some work, as is, $3000 ono III '80 swb, 12000km on ground up rebuild, immac, $8500 III lwb, hardtop, holden mtr, LPG, o/drive, b/bars, spots, htr, wide whls, stereo, wof®, $6500 109, V8, TV, CB, stereo, gas cooker, exc body, big whls, wof®, $14500 Some notes: - "wof" (warrant of fitness) is our reqd 6-monthly mechanical and safety check - "reg" (registration) is the annual road tax - "as-is" normally means no wof - Holden is a GM subsidiary in Australia. Their 186 (cuin) especially is a popular repower, in part because they're so thick on the ground here. It's a 6-cyl OHV engine of I guess '60-70s vintage, with decent low rpm torque but more power than the 2.2 LR motor. In fact I have a holden 179 in my LR. Not so original, however. - All RHD. Apart from the more British look, it makes the clutch master cylinder a hell of a lot easier to get at, at least from the horror stories you guys have been telling here about LHD clutches... - CNG and LPG are gas (in the "gaseous" sense) conversions, popular for old vehicles since they're cheaper to run than petrol. I don't know if either are the same as your propane conversions in the states. Most CNG and LPG conversions can run on petrol also, and it should be straitforward to rip out the cylinders and plumbing if necessary. - NZ$1 = US$0.55, or thereabouts. Cheers, Hugh (IIA '67 swb h/t, Holden 179, o'drive & fwh, runs like a charm, POA) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 09:24:45 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 09:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester To: Greg Hiner Cc: landrovers In-Reply-To: <199406241348.IAA07237@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I was thinking of using the componets from a GM 2.5 'X" car engine 'cause they is *cheeep* .....the actual adaptation would be to mount the throttle body on the manifold and to find a good location for the water temp. sensor....I also think the 2.2 set-up from the cavalier ete. would work well but you might have to *buy* this stuff as it is newer.... I looked at the 2.2 and 2.5 chrysler(nee bosch) system,but,as much as I love the german stuff,it appears wildly too messy for my tastes.. the other factors involved would be mounting and plumbing a fuel pump,along with the high pressure feed and low pressure return lines, and the adapting of the air cleaner to the Landie... all of which,after the housing to engine interface is worked out,is within the abilities of most LR owners,methinks...... Personally,*I'd* use the bosch EFI-D system,but mounting the injectors is the problem(on a"shade tree" scale) For those that do not know, the throttle body fuel injection system is really nothing more than a high pressure carb.....it tends to look and "bolt on" like a carb,but offers *much* better fuel economy and some power gain....picture a housing with a throttle,and a spray nozzle mounted over it."Presto!" TBFI! another*BIG* advantage is that it will work perfectly in any position so that the offroad shaking and bouncing will not effect the fuel milage and performance....no vapor-lock too! FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some night! steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 08:14:12 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: Howzit to all Landie Owners?! To: BAKC@giraffe.ru.ac.za (Keith Coman) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 13:55:20 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <11EB4CF1655@giraffe.ru.ac.za> from "Keith Coman" at Jun 17, 94 07:59:07 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 450 Status: RO > (which was pretty worn anyway) and stuffing in a Rover car diff off > of a '59 Rover 100. The latter has a higher ratio: initial pull off > is slower but open road top end is more relaxed and petrol consumption > is improved. > Err...surely this means that you are now unable to use four-wheel drive, since the two differential ratios are now ...err...different(!) which means appalling transmission wind-up, broken shafts etc, etc? Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 11:23:21 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Problems? To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 12:10:38 EDT In-Reply-To: <199406240655.HAA14719@chunnel.uk.stratus.com>; from "owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com" at Jun 24, 94 7:55 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > Land-Rover-Owner List & Land Rover Owner Daily Digest List > > Contents: > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ > > END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST > ah, was this *supposed* to happen? This was all that came through (and perhaps this was all that was posted during that particular "digest window"). just lettin' you know, (all the others seem ok) rd From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 11:39:09 1994 Date: 24 Jun 94 12:25:53 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: RE: Galvanized frame Status: RO Has anybody here replaced their old frame with one of the new galvanized ones (frame over)? I am considering having it done to my Series III 88. I have a couple of questions. 1. Did you do it yourself or did you have it done. If you had it done not counting parts what was the approximate cost. If you did it yourself how long did it take and what if any special tools were required. 2. How well does the galvanized frame stand up to rust? It snows where I live (just south of Cincinnati OH) and they salt the roads heavily. 3. Any general advise about frame overs in general would be appreciated. As the rover has been living in snow country for only three years the original frame is just starting to rust. Any suggestions concerning how to prevent or slow down rust on the current frame while I save up for a possible frame over? Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com 72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 11:57:53 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:44:29 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Alternative Parts Status: RO I sent out a note awhile back hoping to whip up some excitement about composing the alternative parts list for the Land Rover - in other words what in your experience will work temp/permanently on a Land Rover in case of an emergency or practicality. I have collected a few things over the last month and they are as follows: FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some night! Steven M Denis (Does this really work???) Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694 American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub.

Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 |

David John Place said that a 1970 something brake master cylinder from AMC bolted up to the Land Rover and worked fine. (more info please) Bearings - readily available - just take the old one with you. Shocks - U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine. The numbers are G63494 and G63299. The longer ones go on the back. David John Place Fan belt???? And????More????? engines - diffs (across the Rover line) - If you have anything further to add please let me know - I will put all the additions together and then post to the net (and also archive it). What do you say??? Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 14:19:43 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 15:05:33 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: RE: Galvanized frame Status: RO >Has anybody here replaced their old frame with one of the new galvanized >ones (frame over)? yes >I am considering having it done to my Series III 88. I have a couple of >questions. > >1. Did you do it yourself or did you have it done. If you had it done >not counting parts what was the approximate cost. If you did it yourself >how long did it take and what if any special tools were required. i did it myself. it was in the "shop" for about 2 months (i worked only at night/weekends) but i also did all the paint, and basically tastified the whole rover. special tools? i dunno. air tool swere helpful. the galvanised frame can also make things a tight squeeze, since the galvanisation is done to a "normal sized" frame (getting the springs between the hangers, getting some of the bolts through parts of the frame, etc) >2. How well does the galvanized frame stand up to rust? It snows where >I live (just south of Cincinnati OH) and they salt the roads heavily. > >3. Any general advise about frame overs in general would be appreciated. make sure you use fine thread hardware (you need approximately 250 1/4"-28 3/4" long bolts (i used stainless) and a few dozen others to go through the whole thing right) >As the rover has been living in snow country for only three years the >original frame is just starting to rust. Any suggestions concerning how >to prevent or slow down rust on the current frame while I save up for >a possible frame over? if the originaly frame is just starting to rust, i wouldn't necessarily replace it. oil the inside of the frame... make sure the drain plugs on the bottom of the frame are not plugged... there are also some electronic thingies which help avert the battery-like reaction which causes corrosion (not familiar with these) >Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com >72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 17:56:05 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:35:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Galvanized frame In-Reply-To: <9406241905.AA14222@MIT.EDU> Status: RO Jory writes; if the originaly frame is just starting to rust, i wouldn't necessarily replace it. oil the inside of the frame... make sure the drain plugs on the bottom of the frame are not plugged... there are also some electronic thingies which help avert the battery-like reaction which causes corrosion (not familiar with these) I had a thought about the frames rusting from the inside out. Has anyone ever considered or tried urethane expandable foam to completely fill the inside of the frame and sealing out any water. I think this stuff absorbs moisture as it cures which would probably get most of what is in there. I don't know how it might work in this application, but I have used it in other situations and the stuff is amazing. I think I will try an experiment over this winter. I'll get a piece of box channel, fill it with this stuff and put it at the side of the road until next year. Just so it could get the full treatment of salt and weather. Maybe even find some old channel that's already rusted and see what happens there. I would like to be pretty sure what was going to happen before I ever did this, cause once it's in there it ain't coming out. Any body had any experience on this. Thanks Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 14:54:36 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 15:47:25 EST Encoding: 61 Text To: lro@stratus.com, hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz, William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re[2]: More LR prices from NZ Content-Length: 59 Status: RO > Stop it! You're making us crazy. Makes me want to cry! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 20:28:56 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:10:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: RE: Galvanized frame To: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940624162553_75126.1123_FHD67-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re frame rust. I live in Canada and in central Canada to bbot where it snows and it snows. Temperatures get to -40 F. The first thing we find out here is don't put your vehicle in a heated space in the winter. You will rot your frame jig quick. I am driving a 1964 with like new frame because I always wash it with the power washer and if you are able get some LPS or WD40 inside the frame through the holes. The frames rust from the inside out in most cases. There are some areas you have to watch very closely to keep the frame good. The worst spot from my experience is the bracket holding the under seat gas tanks on the 88. Not only snow and mut build up but stones get in there and rub through the tanks. If you keet this area and the area of the main rear cross member clean and oiled you will have no problems. One other thing I always do to any used Land Rover I buy, is paint the frame everywhere I can reach with black enamel. I use the best paint I can get, like Rustoleum or similar. I first power wash the frame at the car wash and then I use a wire wheel or sand paper and in some cases for heavy dirt a paint scraper. Be very careful around the gas tank because wire wheels give off sparks and you know the result! I have only just touched up a spot or two with welds in any of my 8 Land Rovers which have been taken care of this way. By the way, you really don't have to change the frame unless it is a basket case. You can buy sections as large as 1/3 the vehicle and weld them on. It does however take some work to be sure the frame is perfectly aligned but my buddy has done a number for club members, and they have been very successful. One thing he says is don't put the side riggers on over the old frame. Cut out a space in the exizting frame and weld it in. If you don't, rust builds up between the two layers and rusts out jig quick. The fellow in our club who does this kind of work gets vehicles shipped in from all over the US and Canada, but mostly he does very old and expensive sports cars. He just completed a complete ground up rebuild with a Land Rover in a box as it were from Merseyside and it runs and looks like new. Cheers Dave VE4PN Just a thought, has anyone tried sacrificial anodes like you use on boat engines to slow down the rust. Dave From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 20:40:56 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:23:31 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Alternative Parts To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406241643.LAA09695@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re more American parts. The windshield wiper motors used on most boats ( can get the name of mine if you want it) work great for the rear wiper set up on the stationwagon. I sent some pictures to Dixon Kenner and he can tell you how great they look. The have self parking wiper arms as well and the wiper blades are available at any boat shop. The are great replacements for the from individual motors and 1/8 the price of Land Rover and these actually work unlike the Land Rover ones. The brake cylenders I mentioned are from 72 Hornet, 68 Ambassador or 66 Classics. The work very well on the power assisted brake units in the Land Rover. They have the advantage of being dual system so you can mix or put fron or rear on one system etc. The best alternator repalacement is the Delcotron which has a built in regulator so you don't have to worry about the condition of the old Land Rover one. They are readily available at any junk yard in the US. Parts to make soft tops are always available at boat top places. The nylon slides, clamps etc fit regular conduit. To make the front attachment for the windshield, go to a trailer shop and order a piece of aluminum canopy track. It is the kind roap slides into on the side of a trailer. It is better than the original because it is not only waterproof, but winds wont get under it when you are on the highway. I am still checking on the exact name and number for the great weather seal I found for the doors. It is much better than Land Rover and does not require the rivets. It comes pre glued and it sticks like your own skin! Hope this helps, I will get the rest of our list together. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 20:48:17 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:36:53 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: RE: Galvanized frame To: jory bell Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406241905.AA14222@MIT.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The battery like reaction is Galvanic and it can be stopped by using the sacrificial anodes I mentioned. There are also some sophisticated electronic circuits which can stop Eddy Currents and Galvanic action in metals. I wonder if anyone else has heard that the British found that + earth vehicles don't rust as fast and that is why they started to build behicles this way. I am a Ham Radio type and I am sure I read this in one of my QST mags some years ago. Salt, a little current, and presto you have a hole in your frame. It might be worth looking into. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 20:54:46 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:46:54 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: stubborn spring bolt... To: Michele Bertrand Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Try dry ice. It may shrink the metal and allow you to remove it. Machine shops sometime use the technique to shrink metal for resistance fit units, it might just do the trick. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 02:57:53 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 09:56:32 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Howzit to all Landie Owners?! Cc: lro@stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > > (which was pretty worn anyway) and stuffing in a Rover car diff off > > of a '59 Rover 100. The latter has a higher ratio: initial pull off > > is slower but open road top end is more relaxed and petrol consumption > > is improved. > > > > Err...surely this means that you are now unable to use four-wheel drive, since > the two differential ratios are now ...err...different(!) which means > appalling transmission wind-up, broken shafts etc, etc? Thought of that! Nope -- seems to make no practical difference. Off-road out here is generally very loose dry sand so all 4 wheels are going at different speeds anyway. Another consideration is that the transfer box on my unit is just about short of totally buggered. Back in its Rhodesian days a rear half shaft went and the owner couldn't afford or obtain a new one for a while -- basically ran it off the front diff for a over a year in 4x4 mode: the low ratio transfer gear looks like dog's wet coat! I run it with the free-wheel hubs "on" except when the going's really bad, then a quick burst of 4x4 only when absolutely necessary.... compromises 'o life I guess! Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 03:15:35 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 10:16:09 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: stubborn spring bolt... Priority: normal Status: RO > Well, hello everyone, I have a technical problem. I was working on my 109 > SW ex-NADA, (Rudolph's cousin) doing a complete rebuild today (frame was > done last year) starting by the rear springs. I haved removed one without > any difficulty and was stopped in the process of removing the other one > by a stubborn bolt (the last one remaining, of course). It's the bolt > that holds the front of the rear spring to the chassis. I have removed > the nut on the inner side, but can't even turn the bolt itself. I tried > heating it, an impact driver, hammer and punch, jacking up the spring to > relieve pressure. Nothing. Rien pantoute. (french expression). It looks, > by the feel of the bolt when I try to move it with a ratchet that it's > seized to the inner casing of the bushing. (The ratchet springs back, > after trying to turn the bolt a little. > > Any ideas, suggestions, anybody....please...Thanks in advance, I'll keep > in touch with you guys for the rest of the rebuild.... My sympathies -- yep this job's a real bugger. LR spring overhauls involve very little finesse in my experience. Try this: Soak the works in penetrating oil -- give a good spray and leave over night. Take your socket and tommy-bar -- apply to nut. Then take a 3 foot length of iron pipe and slip over the tommy-bar: HEAVE!!! You basically need all the leverage you can get -- a nice long power-bar on the end of the socket plus a coupla developed biceps! Once the nut's off, drifting out bolt can also involve a bit of fun and games -- as can trying to knock out the old shackle bushes!! Good luck! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 09:45:03 1994 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 08:31:20 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Spring Bolts Status: RO Michel Has a Stuck Bolt. This is how I got the bolts,plates and bushes off and out of my new/old frame for my 62. It isn't easy and not pretty. All of the bolts in the spring and shackle combos were rusted solid. Only two of the nuts would even turn off. I tried the wd-40 soak and heat and pressure to no avail. I then took a machinist hacksaw blade. This is a fine tooth,thin blade saw and started cutting. The nuts that would not turn off got cut first. This was in the vain hope that then the bolt might just come out. Two came out this way but the others held firm. So the remaining two got their heads cut off. This left me with two bolts still in. I forgot to mention that the bolts in the hangers came off fine, it was the bolkts in the bushings that gave trouble. So with all of this cutting and stuff I was finally able to get two more bolts out. So I was left with cut off bolts in the frame bushes. This is the part that you need to take slow. Get a propane torch and very slowly start heating up the rubber in the bush. It will start to burn and melt. Using some sort of bar or pipe, knock out the inner sleeve and bolt when the rubber is good and soft. Do it slow just to make sure that you don't overheat the frame. Then what you have left is the outer sleeve of the frame bush in the frame. Next thing is to take the same fine hack saw and cut through the sleeve but be careful not to cut the frame sleeve. The about a 1/4 inch from the first cut do one more. This is a slow process but it works. You need to be very careful and take it slow. After doing my frame all around, I had to remove one again and it took me about 45 minutes. After you get the two cuts made take a diamond point fine chisel and at the edge of the sleeve very carefully pry up the 1/4 piece between your cuts. Once this is up take a med. diamond point and start rolling up the piece. It is frustrating but does work. This may not be very well explained but I can't do pictures on this term connect. I beleive there is a line drawing of the procedure in the Haynes book. Roy - Frame on the Wall waiting to sit under my 62, IIA 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 12:01:59 1994 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 09:54:29 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Sender: James B Russell Reply-To: James B Russell Subject: Re: Galvanized frame To: David John Place Cc: Jon Humphrey , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Another good point to check with regard to the frame are those little rubber or plastic plugs in the rear crossmember. If they are still in there they should probably be removed. Besides, they make a good place to spray in all kinds of good stuff that will hopefully prevent rust. LPS 3 is interesting stuff (and is popular for use in protecting seaplanes used in salt water). Spraying this stuff into the frame is probably a good idea. Maybe after a good dose of WD40 or LPS 2. It forms a waxy coating that is long lasting and not quickly washed away. The unfortunate part about rust from the inside is that once it starts there is no permanent remedy. All you can do try to clean out the mud and salt with a pressure washer and then spray in as much oil as you can in the hope of forestalling the inevitable. On the outside, as has been mentioned, paint is good. Very good. Even better if you can get rid of any existing rust and clean it down to bare metal. So are rust preventing primers. If you do all of this regularly you may find the frame will last much longer than you would have expected. I wrote my frame off nearly 18 years ago but it is still there. To be sure, it is due for some serious work or replacement but, who knows, maybe I can get another few years out of it. Besides, a frame over is tough to do so I can have it done in time to drive to work Monday morning. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 12:28:29 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: On the Road, finally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 10:21:40 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Well, I'm finally about to hit the road. Almost two weeks ago I got delayed because my father had major eye surgury (detached and torn retinas) on both eyes and I had to stick around and take care of him (he's recovering well and the doctor released him for travel last thursday (the 23rd)) and my head needed to be rebuilt. I had been getting ready to go when I discovered tarry gunk on the exhaust valve spring on the number one cylinder. So I did a compression check and found the pressures to be (in psi) 45,110,160,160. So I drove the 70 miles to my aunt's house and pulled the head. the #1 and #2 cylinder exhaust valve guides were noticable oval, the same cylinders vavle seats were pounded to heck and the edges of the vavles had been rolled back a bit. I had thought that the head had been converted to hardened seats, but that fallicy was revealed 30,000 miles after converting to unleaded. So parted were ordered and I had a shop in Mission Veijo, California (RPM Unlimited, Inc) put in 8 new valve guides, hardened seats and regrind the valves. I got the head back thursday night and droped it in. Since I don't have a definite deadline, my route east isn't all that definite. First I'm headed up the I-5 from LA to Seattle. I hope to reach Seattle sunday evening. I'll be in Seattle visiting friend for a day or two and then head east. I think I'll try to stay off the Interestates. Maybe I'll take US route 2 from Seattle to the end of Michicgan's upper penninsula, from there I'll decide whether to drive though Canada, or swing down below the the remainder of the great lakes. Depending upon how long this thing takes, maybe I'll show up at the Owl's Head rally. I'll be driving in a well laden blue SIII 88. If you see a Rover with too much in the roof rack and a "Blacker Armored Division" sign over the driver's door, that's me. Give a honk and I'll pull over and chat. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 13:06:18 1994 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 11:56:36 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Positive Earth and Frame Rust Status: RO This is an issue that comes up from time to time. Since I have dealt with the issues of battery ground via the telephone industry I have evolved the following theory. The Rover uses the steel box frame as the ground return for the lights,starter and instruments: ok everything electrical. The frame has, at all times, a 12 volt potential sitting in it. The telephone industry isolates all ground from any structures or equipment. Then any equipment requiring ground is connected individually. I guess the short version is that all battery and ground is connected only where it belongs. So for my Rover my thought is that the frame is eliminated as the ground return. So that only the electrical components that require battery/ground get it. So that the frame no longer will have any electrical potential in it. Now I admit that this may not prevent much rust but it seems a good way to start a corosion control effort. It also my increase the effeciency of the over- all stock electrical system. That is the general theory. When I replace the frame under the 62, it will get a protected ground return. Then I might be able to tell if there will be any practical effect. Roy - Just sick reading those Rover Prices from NZ but still in the Big Sky Country on the Rocky Mountain Front. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 16:49:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 14:56:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO To all you experts out there:- A while ago I asked for help up loading material from word perfect into the system. I asked of easy to understand info on how to do this. I AM NOT A COMPUTER EXPERT OR KNOWLEDGEABLE. I have had a few comments from various quarters about my up loading that I am doing. Everyone is making comments but NO ONE is offerring idiot steps for someone like myself to follow. We must all remember that we ALL can be our own worst enemies on this system when we take shots at others for the way they do things withoout offering them a solution. Please be aware as a Land Rover lover first and computer user for convenenience that I do not have all the skills and experince as those of you who work in computers for a living etc etc. We will alienate people quickly if all we are able to do is to whine about people low standard of operation. Ok, i have made some errors when putting stuff to the system, but dont critcise me without giving me an alternative method as an option. This makes people feel really unwelcome. Now that i have got that of my chest a couple of notes:- I would like to thank our Italian friend Ludo publicly for his help on a little project I have [D, a real gentleman to deal with! It was good to see brad Blevins on the system again, I love his magazine and hope that those of you who have not seen the Alumnium Workhorse will e mail him for more info, nice guy, great stuff. Somebody was asking about expanded foam in the frames...... Ask Dale all about that stuff!! "Stronger than metal" was his comments! Must run Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 25 18:54:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: models From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 17:52:08 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The July '94 issue of Military In Scale magazine has a good article on 1 tonne Land Rovers. This is a model making related magazine out of the UK and retails for USD$4.00 or CAND$5.95 in most good Hobby shops. This is a realtively new magazine which I really like. They try to link model article where possible to the real thing. As a photojournalist Bob Morrison of LRO fame is back to his roots here providing the pictures to hightlight and focus on a new model release or add on aftermarket kit. Time Neate a well known British 1/76 scale (cramped storage space forces alot of Brits to model in this scale ) model maker has done a good look at the 1 tonne Forward control Land Rover. Covering six pages with six sets of differrrent vehcile drawings and twelve pictures, some of which are colour this is a great reference to put away for later on for any Land Rover enthusiast. Sadly the 1 tonne is only available in the smaller scales 1/76 1/48 and has yet to come out in 1/35 or bigger such as the braille scale 1/24! I have plans for a 1 tonne and have half completed it among my in the works collection of models on the bench. This magazine has done a number of artciles on Land Rovers and is well off having Bob M on staff as he really adds some great pictures to bring out the unique ness of the each vehcile he covers. If anyone woud like any more info just drop me a message and I'll get back to you. Rgds Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 07:53:37 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 23:41:38 EDT Subject: Re[3]: More LR prices from NZ Status: RO > > Stop it! You're making us crazy. > Makes me want to cry! Makes me want to fly to buy Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 07:53:33 1994 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 23:42:11 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Positive Earth and Frame Rust To: ROY CALDWELL Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406251756.AA06112@mtnoca.helena_noc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Can you tell us more about the protected ground system. I worked for Northern Telecom putting in x bar and multi-plex etc, and I remember we used a common copper bus bar on some frames, but those bus bars were also screwed to the frame so they were part of the whole ground system. Ground loops were a problem from time to time on the radio equipment and we ended up running a separate ground line. Is this how you propose to solve the problem, buy installing a copper ground bus off the battery lead and then running all ground leads to that bus? Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 07:53:32 1994 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 23:45:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Positive Earth and Frame Rust To: ROY CALDWELL Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406251756.AA06112@mtnoca.helena_noc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I forgot to ask what you thought of the sacrificial anode idea for the Land Rover. They are available at any boat shop. Do you think they would help a bit. Using alumininun and then using steel frames and bolts is asking for trouble if you add salt from the road plus run a 12 volt potential through the whole mess. It is a wonder the frames don't rust out quicker. I have noticed lots of corrosion on the bolts in the body panal areas under the wings etc. I suspect this is the problem. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 10:43:40 1994 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 09:32:09 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Isolated Ground Return Status: RO Dave ask: Can you tell us more about the protected ground system. In US West or Worst, your preference used an isolated ground return in, at least the SXS Central Offices. The copper bus would be insulated from the iron frame work in each of the equipment bays. All the bus bars would be interconnected using a humongus stranded copper cable. These things were about an inch in diameter. The grounding then would be run from the main bus bar to a real earth ground rod. My idea is to take a solid copper 10G wire and run it from the rear to the engine compartment to be connected to a mini-bus bar. Then all of the headlights and instruments would be grounded to this bus. The bus would then be grounded to the block. The only thing I have not ivestigated is how much insolation will have to be down on the starter and motor mounts to contain the ground and keep it from bleeding back into the frame. Since I am going to do this on my 62, during the frame over, everything will be exsposed and the isolation of mounting bolts and such can be done as I go. One problem is that some points in the vehicle may not be able to be insulated/isolated because of part to part fit. But I shall see. I think a great deal of electrical problems could be solved by just running a non-frame ground from the rear to the front and ground all important items to it. This would, at the very least, improve things a great deal on exsiting systems without having to tear everything apart. I feel that the idea of a sacrificial anode is pratical and the theory should work. The Rover is a classic example of were the anode should help. But I think containing the ground and eliminating that 12 volt potehtial in the vehicle could prove to not only help the corrosion trouble but will improve the preformence of the the system. But since this is all theory, I won't know for sure until I get the work on the 62 done. I beleive the corrosion we all find on bolts and nuts at the wings and floor boards are a direct result of the potential problem related to grounding. What has helped many people is replacing as many of those bolts and nuts with stainless. Since most of those are SAE I will replaced them from my local hardware store that has buckets of them in a good grade for a few cents each. I will try to keep accurate notes on things that are isolated and such on the 62 project. But the problem with evaluating this theory is that Montana, or at least Helena, does not use salt and I ain't going to subject my Coyote Girl to salt, just to prove a theory. Roy - So much Rover stuff to do and so little time. Rovers in the Rockies. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 17:54:17 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Road Trip East In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 25 Jun 94 12:01:54 PDT." <9406251801.AA06155@mtnoca.helena_noc> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 15:46:55 PDT Status: RO You won't believe this, but I only made about 100 miles. The Rover was running the the best taht it has in 3 years. I was even able to maintain 60 to 65 mph on the flats. Then suddenly I lost power and slowed to about 50 mph. There was no sound or anything, just power loss. No bad noises from the engine. An exit was a mile ahead so I got off. The engine died as soon as I let off the gas and popped the clutch. Since I hadn't hearn anything bad, i tried to start it. It started right up, but the air filter hose had popped off the carb and the engine had a deeper, throatier sound, almost like I had blown something along the exhaust line. I immediately killed the engine. The engine had been running a bit warm, but not critically. I popped off the vavle cover and my heart sank. The #6 push rod was bent at about a 30 degree angle.....and the #6 valve had been sucked. Of coarse this happened just after I got into the San Jaucin Valley and this was farm country. The short of it is I biked 8 miles to the nearest town (a gas station, a country store and a mexican restaraunt) (called Old River). After a few hours of waiting and phone calls I got in touch with a friend. He drove up. In the light of a street lamp I pulled the head. When he arrived we towed the Rover to that gas station (I knew that 1 inch line would come in handy) and drove back to Los Angeles. The happy part of the story is that there are no marks on the piston from the valve hitting it and the rocker arm/push rod mating surface has no visible or feelable marks!!! The valve itself (an intake) is stuck down, but some gentle taps with a hammer and a block of wood will move it. So taking the valve out shouldn't be too bad (famous last words). it looks to me that Rover designed the engine so that sucked valves would not damage the pistons. This way, you could pull the spark plug and pushrods and drive on the other 3 cylinders. This is an important thing to remember if your Rover dies in the middle of nowhere. With luck I can get parts from British Pacific on Monday and get a ride back to the my Rover. My friends are saying that taking 5 years to graduate and then having the Rover need work twice is like the Eagles "Hotel California" refrain (with modifications)... "Welcome to the Hotel California. You can graduate any time you like, but you can never leave." Roy, I'll see how long this repair takes, but I can't see being on the road before last Tuesday. Maybe I should just call when I get to Seattle. That way I'll be much closer to Montana and there won't be anymore false starts. Ben ------ Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 19:45:27 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 02:17:02 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Re: Road Trip East To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Gee Ben, there's nothing like starting out on a crusade, only to find out that the horse has a broken leg. But it could be worse; you could have stumbled on your way out and hit your head on the garage door. I am convinced that one day you will complete your trip. Good luck. I think my new tank is delivered tomorrow (monday). I'm about to take the "green" license at the club (reduced insurance) but i won't go off road with a hole in the tank since it might add extra excitement to a roll-over. Also a new stick is on it's way. The old one is worn down to a square penol. A new ball-end stick will make it easier to control a pretty worn 3/4 syncro. I'm looking around for a used gearbox with both syncros ok. 'till then i'll have to live with 5 seconds between top gears. My brother is getting a Landie too. From various postings it seems that land rover ownership is a family matter. Once you'r inside one, it will posses your very soul. *** Soren Vels velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk '76 sIII 109" *** From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 20:53:35 1994 Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 20:41:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Isolated Ground Return To: ROY CALDWELL Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406261532.AA07050@mtnoca.helena_noc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Thanks for the info on the grounding. I guess you were referring to the 500 MCM cable in the offices about an inch or more across. I will be interested in your experiment. I am a ham radio operator, and I am thinking of shielding the dist. cap inside a food tin and soldering braid type co-ax or other such wire out to the plugs to cut noise. I have replaced the generator so that whine problem is gone, but alternators produce lots too so I will have to shunt it out to ground. I use two meters in the vehicle at the moment with a left wing mounded 5/8th whip and the aluminum body seems not bad for a ground plane. It think I am adding to the corrosion problems however with my present set up. Good luck. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 03:35:13 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More LR prices from NZ To: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:27:40 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406241554.AA01821@elephino.Eng.Sun.COM>; from "William L. Grouell" at Jun 24, 94 8:54 am Status: RO > > Stop it! You're making us crazy. > Yoiu mean we werent anyway? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 06:10:31 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rover World To: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 11:55:28 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Ludovico Magnocavallo" at Jun 27, 94 12:14 pm Status: RO > > I have received this morning the August (!) issue of Land Rover World. > Great! > I don't know if I'll renew my subscription to Land Rover Owner, after > this (I got LRO May issue two weeks ago...). > Ludovico > ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it > 'm inclined to agree with you,Ludo,although LRW isnt on the newstands here yet.Cant be much wrong with your postal system.LRO is consistently late coming out,and to cap it all they are silly enough to publish the date of the next issue in the current one.Then they dont meet it.I think I've had stopped taking LRO by now if it hadnt been for the mass of adverts in it.LRW has yet to build up a large advertising clientele,both trade and cassified.Come to think of it,its hardly a good reason for taking a magazine is it,for its ads,rather than its content.Oh well. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 05:44:14 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover World From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 12:14:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I have received this morning the August (!) issue of Land Rover World. Great! I don't know if I'll renew my subscription to Land Rover Owner, after this (I got LRO May issue two weeks ago...). Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 07:21:34 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Galvanized frame Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 13:09:00 UNDEFINED Status: RO >I had a thought about the frames rusting from the inside out. WAXOYL!!!!!! Spray the whole chassis outside, and inject all the tubes inside. Redo the outside every year (just a quick spray over will do) and carry a hand sprayer from your local garden centre (full of Waxoyl diluted with deisel) around with you whenever you do anything to the vehicle - just spray any rust you see. Redo the inside every 5 years (more from paranoia than anything else) Frame'll be an archeological relic for future millennia. Stuff sprays directly onto existing rust - only a cursory brush is needed first. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 18:49:44 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Hello all ! To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:40:54 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hello all, My name is Craig Murray, from Victoria in Australia. My beloved is a 1955 series 1 86" hard top, which I am currently fitting a late series III 2.25 desiel into, which is a very tight squeze. My Landy also has series IIA axles, for the wider track, and a diff lock in the rear diff, to make up for the fact the series 1's don't have all that much wheel travel, espesially when fitted with 7.50x16 tyres. Also of note is that my Landy has a home made PTO winch on it, I believe that the actual winch drive is a turret drive off a Centurian tank, with a winch drum welded to it, this makes the winch very strong, but also very slow, as the winch drive has a reduction of 40:1. The reason I am putting the 2.25 desiel in is because the previous motor died, and the fact that it was totally use less, no it was not a 2 litre 'F' head, it was a 161 cu six cylinder, which was alright on the open road, but once up bush it was just use less, the torque was up way too high in the rev range, and when it was water, it started losing cylinders, and when it hit the water, it stopped. Any how, I come from a family of Land Rover nuts, My parents own a 1973 Long wheel base station wagon which has a nissan 3.3 litre six cylinder desiel(they are thinking of removing the desiel, as it is totally useless). My brother owns a Series IIA Long wheel base soft top, which is ex-Australian Army, and it has a 253 cu v8. My sister has a 1967 short wheel base with a 2.25 petrol, and a chassie that looks like swiss cheese, so much so that we will not take it up bush, because if we have to pull her out, we don't think the chassie will take it! My sisters boy friend owns a 1977 Range Rover and a 1960 series II petrol, and all of us are members of the Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria, but I am the only person with access to the internet. Any how that all I have time for, for now, I am looking forward to hearing lots and lots about Land Rovers. =========================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series One. mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 26 20:05:22 1994 From: root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Re: Re: Re: Road Trip East To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:53:15 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Soren Veles writes: > I think my new tank is delivered tomorrow (monday). I'm about to > take the "green" license at the club (reduced insurance) but i won't go > off road with a hole in the tank since it might add extra excitement to a > roll-over. Also a new stick is on it's way. The old one is worn down to a > square penol. A new ball-end stick will make it easier to control a pretty > worn 3/4 syncro. I'm looking around for a used gearbox with both syncros > ok. 'till then i'll have to live with 5 seconds between top gears. I don't think that you need a 5 second pause between gears, the syncros in series 1 have been non-exsistant for ages, so I know a bit about what its like, but I never have had the gears crunch when I am going up the gears, and I just double de clutch when changing down gears, and if you manage to do it right, it just slots strait in with out any noise. =========================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series One mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 07:12:02 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 27 Jun 94 23:52:09 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Ben's Valve Train Problems Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ben wrote: >> The #6 push rod was bent at about a 30 degree angle.....and the #6 valve had been sucked. Of coarse this happened just after I got into the San Jaucin Valley and this was farm country. The short of it is I biked 8 miles to the nearest town (a gas station, a country store and a mexican restaraunt) (called Old River). After a few hours of waiting and phone calls I got in touch with a friend. He drove up. In the light of a street lamp I pulled the head. When he arrived we towed the Rover to that gas station (I knew that 1 inch line would come in handy) and drove back to Los Angeles. The happy part of the story is that there are no marks on the piston from the valve hitting it and the rocker arm/push rod mating surface has no visible or feelable marks!!! The valve itself (an intake) is stuck down, but some gentle taps with a hammer and a block of wood will move it. So taking the valve out shouldn't be too bad (famous last words). it looks to me that Rover designed the engine so that sucked valves would not damage the pistons. This way, you could pull the spark plug and pushrods and drive on the other 3 cylinders. This is an important thing to remember if your Rover dies in the middle of nowhere. Ben, I'm really sorry to hear this news, especially right after having the head done. I'll assume that the shop did the job right and venture a couple of possible answers: 1. My first thought was that there is a problem with the lifter (tappet) assembly, but that wouldn't explain why the valve stuck in the open position. Use a set of long needle nose pliers or hemostats and check to see that the lifter slides up and down and that the roller is where it is supposed to be 2. Did you check the valve spring? Sometimes if the inner or outer is broken it can cause the other spring to bind, holding the valve open. At the very least, change the spring as well 3. Lubrication. Is the oil making it up to your rocker assembly (probably)? If so is the spray hole in the rocker of the affected valve clear? Is the rocker to valve stem surface smooth or worn to the shape of the valve stem? If the rocker end is worn it can put undue lateral stress on the valve itselfg possibly causing it to bind in the guide (and causing the guides to wear in an oval fashion). For this to happen with an intake valve is unusual in that the "negative" pressure in the intake manifold tends to draw oil into the valve guide Good luck and let me know when you make it back. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com 201-564-2073 W 201-835-1796 H From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 14:43:57 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 14:33:08 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Ben's Valve Train Problems To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406271202.IAA14855@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Ref your valve problems. Had the same thing happen just after a valve job I did and it turned out that the round vavle lifter was not actually round. When I set the valves I was on the good part of the lifter. After it rotated a few times the lifter rod hit the low spot and the adjustment went out. It started with just a clicking and then it the rod came out from under the rocker. Like you the valve was tight in the guide after it came out but I was lucky and didn't bend the rod. I did however put in all new sifters and changed the one rod just in case. I put it on class to test it and it was ok but didn't want to take a chance on it happening again. I have about 3000 miles on it sence the probelm and it works fine. now. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 14:46:43 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: mechanic in SF Bay Area? X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf)-j: )z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Christopher A. Kantarjiev" Status: RO I've dropped off the list, so please reply to me by mail. I have a friend with a Range Rover that is about to need it's 40K service. She's looking for a trustworthy mechanic in the San Francisco Bay Area; the usual suspect is San Jose British, but she had terrible service from them in the past when she owned a Jag. If you're out here and trust someone, please pass their name along to me. Thanks. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 16:24:27 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy) Organization: Project LearnLink: Linking Educators Everywhere! Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 17:14:56 EST Subject: Land Rover Advice? Status: RO Greetings Land Rover folks, I am interested in purchasing a Land Rover and I need some advice on one that I have found locally. I really want to know how much I should spend and what I should expect out of these critters. I have never driven one, so I am kind of running on air, since I don't know anyone here with one. The vehicle I'm looking at is a 1964 Series IIA SW. It still has the stock 2.2 petrol engine, but with a Rochester carb, which I have never heard of. The wiring from the fusebox and engine compartment has been burned out by a fire when a fuel hose became disattached and caught from the manifold, but the thing was running before that. Most of the body is straight, but there is relatively bad rust on both frame and firewall. I'm not sure how complete this is, as the frame still appears rather solid, despite the rust. What I'd like to know is what you would expect to pay for a vehicle like this in your area. I am in the SE United States, so if you know American $ figures, it would be appreciated. As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably travel on a highway? I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow? What does it cost to get a winch and a soft top for one? /========/ Sean Murphy, LearnLink Administrator !! !! !! Internet/Telnet: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu !! !! !! Phone: (404)/727-2259 /========/ For information, mail Info@learnlink.emory.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 24 20:52:15 1994 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 20:42:09 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Galvanized frame To: Jon Humphrey Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re expandable foam. Don't do it. One of the guys tried it on another part of the vehicle and he was sorry. The stuff must by hydroscopic because it got wet between the metal and the foam and it was a mess. Getting it off was terrible. The old WD40 or better still LPS using a garden sprayer or if you are really lucky usning your air compressor and the spray wand with the hose pickup normally used for power washing is the way to go. Whoever said keep the drain holes clean really has the right idea. They are a good place to spray in ghe oil. When Rob my rebuilder does a frame over, he tilts the frame up and sprays in oil and leaves a a few days till he sees it come out the other end and then he knows it is done. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 17:39:51 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 18:30:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? To: "Sean P. Murphy" Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <1994Jun27.171456.1058403@learnlink.emory.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Sean, I'll send a general message now but I certainly hope others on LRO send you more detailed replies. The '64 88" is a nice beast in my book. Without seeing the frame and firewall it's hard for me to judge but those are two things that in good shape can jump the price of a truck up up up. Doesn't sound like this one is in the pricey range so initially that is good for your checkbook. Firewalls are getting harder and harder to come by and are inconvenient to repair. Frames can go from not that bad to worthless with surprising speed if ignored. Try banging on that frame in a variety of accessable places with a small hammer or like object and look for punky spots. My frame was patched for years and years until i finally broke down (figurativly and nearly literally) and got a new galvanized one last summer. You don't say was the interior and exterior are like but of course that can run the price up. DO you know the person you are buying it from or can you get some sort of warrenty that if you replace the wiring harness and the thing runs like a sick puppy you can get a refund? I've bought land rovers without driving them but it is risky. The standard carb is a weber but plenty of folks like the rochester... generally there's a bit more power (at the expense of gas milage of course). soft tops (new and used, genuine and otherwise) are pretty available and real nice to have. I get my stuff from Rovers North up here in Vermont but there are lots of Land Rover parts suppliers. Price. That's tricky. With an iffy frame and firewall and in need of a new wiring harness (and personally i would replace the whole wiring harness because Lucas electrical systems are screwy enough without patching up a burned out one) i would put this 64 under $2k even if it looks beautiful and is promised to run like new. I would think, approached properly (looking doubtful and possibly disinterested in ALL! the work this rover could be) you might be able to get it well under $1000. as for driving a rover. I've been driving land rovers for 15 years now; many many miles over all kinds of roads. I am always impressed with a well maintained rover's reliability. With an overdrive you can cruise on flats at 70mph altho i personally don't; hills and headwinds take a heavy toll since it's underpowered and as aerodynamic as a brick. Without an overdrive i very seldom go about 55. the most important thing to remember is that this is a 30 year old vehicle that even new was not state of the art luxury-wise. It will always drive like a truck: rough, stiff, noisy. on the otherhand... it will always drive. and it will look cool doing it. p.s. one last note: land rovers, despite all the out of africa stuff are hot to drive inthe summer and cool in the winter... something to consider if you live down south. jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 18:07:41 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1483 Status: RO I just came aboard the line here and wanted to say hello- I own a 1969 IIA 88" - It does have a Scotty's chevy conversion to a 250cu. straight six (sorry to the purists). However, this is my only vehicle, and I drive extensively throughout Northern California in the summer months. It has never broken down, but if it does I know every rural junkyard can fix me up. My rig is used to explore logging roads and forest service roads in the coast range, where I am doing research on coast range streams (for a degree at U.C. Berkeley). I'm pleased to say that the odometer just turned over (100,000 mi) for the first time, so this car is still a pup. Regarding all the talk on Rochester carbs, the one I had kept spewing gas out the front O-ring making for erratic throttling. No local shops in Berkeley would rebuild this part. I dumped it for a Holley, which works great. A friend of mine in Northern California has what he thinks is a 1956 series I SWB (sitting in the garage). It has a Perkins diesel in it?? Did Land Rover put these in or is it an after market jobber? Anyway, the aluminum head on the motor has corrosion damage and blows thick clouds of blue smoke. Is it possible to find parts for these motors (i.e. head); I know Perkins is a big company. Or would it be more economical to just pop in another Rover engine (diesel or petrol)? If you have any opinion on the series I I'd love to hear (read?). Morgan H. Berkeley, CA. '69 IIA SWB From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 18:25:41 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 9:16:08 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > I just came aboard the line here and wanted to say hello- > > I own a 1969 IIA 88" - It does have a Scotty's chevy conversion to > a 250cu. straight six (sorry to the purists). However, this is > my only vehicle, and I drive extensively > throughout Northern California in the > summer months. It has never broken down, but if it does I know every rural > junkyard can fix me up. My rig is used to explore logging roads and > forest service roads in the coast range, where I am doing research on > coast range streams (for a degree at U.C. Berkeley). I'm pleased > to say that the odometer just turned over (100,000 mi) for the first > time, so this car is still a pup. > > Regarding all the talk on Rochester carbs, the one I had kept spewing > gas out the front O-ring making for erratic throttling. No local shops > in Berkeley would rebuild this part. > I dumped it for a Holley, which works great. > > > A friend of mine in Northern California has what he thinks is a > 1956 series I SWB (sitting in the garage). > It has a Perkins diesel in it?? Did Land > Rover put these in or is it an after market jobber? > Anyway, the aluminum head on the motor has corrosion damage > and blows thick clouds of blue smoke. Is it possible to find > parts for these motors (i.e. head); I know Perkins is a big company. > Or would it be more economical to just pop in another Rover engine > (diesel or petrol)? > > > If you have any opinion on the series I I'd love to hear (read?). > > > Morgan H. > Berkeley, CA. > '69 IIA SWB > > Hello Morgan, I am just finishing putting a 2.25l desiel in my 1955 series 1, and I am hoping that it will work well, I know of people thta have put the 2.25 petrol into series 1's, and they are good little units. If you can find and original 2 litre F head motor, I don't know how easy they are to find in the states, then put that in, but have it balanced first, as it is just a matter of putting it back to original specs. If you are going to put the 2.25 l petrol or desiel in, you have to use a series II or IIA bell housing, as the stud patterns are different, and you should also use an air cleaner of the same model, as a 2.25l with a series 1 air cleaner will be strangled for air. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 18:42:43 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Galvanized Chassies. To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 9:30:42 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Howdy all, Just a couple of points my brother brought up about galvanizing chassies on a Land Rover. The only Land Rover chassie that you should galvanize is a new Land Rover chassie, as the chassie is painted inside, and out. So when dipped in acid, to remove the paint and so forth from the out side of the chassie, the paint on the inside, cracks, and the chassie will now start to rust from the inside out. So beware. To maintain the chassie, just keep it clean. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 19:29:54 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 17:21:21 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Sender: James B Russell Reply-To: James B Russell Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: Morgan Hannaford Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199406272259.PAA05410@golden.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but... I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as the Rover diesel. I think they are a fairly popular marine engine so it is likely that parts, tech data, and service are commonly available. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:14:05 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: welding galvanised material From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 09:45:22 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO A while ago I noitced a message from Mike Fredette I beleive it was who was making comments about welders not wanting to weld bits onto a galvanised frame RIGHTLY SO! In case you are not aware I will digress, all others exit here! As a welder and fabricator by trade I can tell you that most welders would prefer to grind all day than have to weld on Galvanised material. When the zinc, which is all galvainsing is really, dipping in molten zinc, is heated it changes chemically. During that breakdown some very noxious substances are generated. One of them is cadmium, lovely stuff not good to get into your system at all. IT HAS ALWAYS been a part of most welders training to be taught that welding on galvanised material is dangerous to your health. >From a practical point of view there is no reason that you can not weld to galvanised material if you take the proper precauutions. Here is how I would takle it in an ideal environment money no object situation. Using the piece to welded to the frame take an indelible marker and draw on the frame where the piece will land. Using a grinder, eye goggles and fine particle mask and a fan behind you to blow the dust away (DO THIS OUTSIDE) grind the area to be welded and keep going a good 1/2 to 1" furtheraway from the edge and expose the base mild steel frame, this will be shiny and bright by comparison. Clamp and aline new piece to be welded. My choice for welding would be a good MIG (LINDE TRADE NAME NOTE) machine or a stcik welder with 3/32 E7018 rods for the job. tack the object at a number of points. When you are welding use a 100% fresh air welding mask, very expensive or if you have to go the route of using fan behind you. If you use a fan and are using a MIG machine chances are that you will nock away the shielding gas and this will play havoc with your weld. yes you can use a gasless wire if you have one. The 3/32 E7018 is a very ductile welding materail and it will give you an excellent bond / fusion if used correctly. It is a good all position rod and the 7018 range is well proven in the structural field. Alot of people like the 60xxx series of rods such as 6010 or 6011 to wled with. They are fine for some jobs such as the root pass in a pipe weld or biting down through rusty materail but do not have the ductility of the 70xxx series rods that in my view are more applicable to Land Rovers that constantly twist and flex. Once welding you will see immmediatly if you removed all the galvased material in the weld area, if you get green flames and a funny crackling then you failed. Once you have finshed your welding, being carefull to limit heat build up in a small area, then clean the weld with chipping hammer which should be drawn accross the weld not pounded into it to remove the flux and then brushed with a good wire brush. As the material is cooling down but not yet cold but not hot enough to make steam, just a bit uncomfortable to touch a coat of Galvafroid paint should be applied. It can be bought in spray bombs or in big cans and should be well mixed first. Let this paint go on in light layers drying first before applying the next layer. Do a number of layers to get a good protection on the site. If you welded fully around the object then the back is sealed in and will not rust. What you cant get at is the inside of the frame that you just toasted so nicely. Get out the oiling material and try to get some in behind if you can to try to stop the corrosion from the inside. This all leads me to one big question though, if your frame is galvaised why are you having to weld anything to it at all, the outriggers should have been galvanised aswell yes? I'm sure that there is something that i have left out as I live type this, lets see what develops. By the way the Oldtimers notion that you can protect yourself when welding on galvanised materail by drinking milk is bullshit. Just thought I would erase that fallacy before i signed out on this one. Be gald to advise, Rgds Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:05:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: welcome mate! From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 00:10:36 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO G'Day to Craig murray and family and all in the Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria at the bottom of the globe from us in the Ottawa Valley in Canada at the top of the world!! It is just grand (you need to be North Country England to get the meaning of the word ) to have all these new floks coming onto the system. it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to what they must have tried that didnt work! Say do you guys have the galvanic reactions fromthe wet seasons that we do from the salt at all? Just asking. regards Robin Craig Ottawa Valley Land Rovers, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:03:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: RE: Canadian CRAZY CLAY From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 08:43:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > OH right you are!!!! except that the noise started before I crossed the > border.....I went to adjust the brakes,and the front adjusters would turn > all the way around....ooooooooooo......(cobblers childern and all that...) Mine are in fine shape too, as well as others. Next time we will have to see how to wash them out. Dave Lowe & Tom "Mud Magnet" Toleffson went through another pond (see Russell's message) which cleaned out their system. > WELL it was happy,but YOU saw it....could it ever be nice????? Could be, depends on how you define nice... :-) Rgds, Dixon Now to get toghter the details on the Calabogie Power cut/Flower Station road run on August 20/21. (No, not like the B-day party, we actually have to cover some distance on this one...) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:02:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Leaking Rochester From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 08:47:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > And to add to the confusion, I have had nothing but trouble with the > Weber..... > they seem to change idle speed via a complex formula involving phases of > the moon and the dollar/lira exchange rate..... > LOVED the webers (38 DCnlf-5's) that I had on my VW...so it's not a"my carb > is better than your carb" thing....I'm thinking on developing a throttle > body injection set up for the 2.25....anyone interested in this idea? Sounds a bit like a problem Dale had. Not all Webers are alike. Some are made with an imperfection in the barrel that makes them a pain to adjust. Dale sent his back for a replacement. Beyond that, Weber is the replacement of choice up here on the warm tundra. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:02:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: RE: Galvanized frame From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 08:52:33 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> writes: > Has anybody here replaced their old frame with one of the new galvanized > ones (frame over)? Have seen good frames galvinised, though never see one sent over from the UK... > I am considering having it done to my Series III 88. I have a couple of > questions. > > 1. Did you do it yourself or did you have it done. If you had it done > not counting parts what was the approximate cost. If you did it yourself > how long did it take and what if any special tools were required. The several LR's in OVLR that have been done had the process done in Montreal. Very few places are about that can handle a Land Rover frame (size). The place in Montreal generally does hydro towers. The problem with this is that they are used to big pieces of steel that are pretty rugged. Land Rover frames, while strong, are not as rugged as a hydro tower. Several frames were damaged in the process. The second point on having your frame galvinised is that the process is going to fill up a lot of bolt holes, or at least narrow them down. Expect to spend significant time drilling them out. > 2. How well does the galvanized frame stand up to rust? It snows where > I live (just south of Cincinnati OH) and they salt the roads heavily. Stands up quite well on the couple I have seen... > 3. Any general advise about frame overs in general would be appreciated. Replace lots of parts. This is your chance... > As the rover has been living in snow country for only three years the > original frame is just starting to rust. Any suggestions concerning how > to prevent or slow down rust on the current frame while I save up for > a possible frame over? Oil it throughly. OVLR has a frame oiler party every fall where you can spray as much gunk on it as you want. With a job that drips into February they do not rust that much... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:01:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: foam From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 14:57:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Robin had said something about foam. The joke goes something like this; "Foam frame repair; Waterproof, easy to install, just injest and sculpt, stronger than steel". An example of cheesy things that people sometimes do. Oops, that should be inject, not injest, that would be fatal :-(. I have seen some sar resellers doing some things, that while not illegal, just make me wince. Speaking of wierd things in frames, found a piece of concrete? in my frame, back of left frame rail. Suspect this was a factory option, as there is no conceivable way it could have gotten in there after construction. Anyone else seen one of these? Dale -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 20:10:08 1994 Date: 28 Jun 1994 13:01:22 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >From: Craig Murray >All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l >desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with >a different head, pistons, and injector pump instead of the distributor, >inlet manifold, and the crank is made out of forged steel, instead of >cast iron. Infact, in England a lot of places acutally convert petrol >2.25 motors to desiel, and is a common practise to check the crank is >stamped with a 'D' instead of a 'P'. So if that is the case, then >it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a >TDi block. This conversion from Petrol to Diesel sounds VERY interesting. Does anyone have any info on suppliers or sources for such kits or parts? Also, has anyone in Australia/New Zealand heard of such a conversion? Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 20:38:15 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 20:20:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9406280036.AA14138@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO That was interesting info on the crank for the 2.25. I had a bad score on my petrol crank, so when I rebuilt the petrol I put my diesel one in its place. It doesn't seem to make any difference to how it runs. I have all the specs up to factory as far as bearing fits etc and I run about 60 lbs of pressure etc. Was there something different about the weight or some other problem with the swap. I seem to recall using different size bearings however on mine or my buddies one when we did the three way swap. Something I found was that to change the head from one series to another, I had to use a different front cover because the thermostat housing is deeper on one than the other. I had so many parts on the floor at one time or another I don't really know what series ended up in the vehicle, but I made one great engine out of three and it seems to be doing a good job for me. One thing I was going to do and decided not to was use the very heaby bull nose pully from the diesel. It seemed to suck to much poser out of the engine to turn it so I went with the lighter petrol one and it is working OK. For the guys getting into this hobby, the problems or lack of them really at fitting just about any year part to your vehicle is certainly a plus. With hard to find vehicles like ours, it is nice to think a door wiil fit over a thirty year period or in my case an engine from over a twenty year period and from diesel to petrol. One other question. I have a good diesel block here. It seems to be a petrol block with sleeves in it to reduce the diameter of the cyl. If I push the sleeves out will I have a petrol block, after cleaning the wall etc. Just a thought. Dave VE4PN By the way for the fellow asking about the 64 S II for sale. Mine is a 64 SWB that had a rod through the block. The body was OK but needed care. I paid $500 Canadian for it and with new paint motor, trans etc. I guess it would fetch $5000 now. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:03:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Isolated Ground Return From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michel Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 22:03:56 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO On Rudolph's rebuild, I had a ground wire going to the back, another one going to the front and a last one going to the instruments. I believe, like others, in theory, that it will help reduce the corrosion problem but most certainly improve the efficiency of the electrical wire. However, I don't think that you can completely isolate the chassis and body from grounding. The engine block must be grounded and it is bolted directly to the frame. All the lights have their casing touching the body panels, and their casings are grounded and the instruments casings, which are grounded, also touch the dash panels. I don't want to be a pessimist, so here is my positive note: Knowing the quality of the Lucas grounding systems and the age of the lights casings, it is mostly possible that with a isolated setup like I have will ground the frame and body panels, BUT not as much as if it was directly grounded, thus reducing the corrosion. I have absolutely no electrical knowledge. (I'm a law student) and I could be wrong. Remember, I'm the one who's Rover caught fire a few weeks ago... Michel Bertrand, Ottawa, with Rudolph (which kept his name after all, thanks for all the nice suggestions) -- Michel Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 01:57:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Sign. From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michel Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 22:15:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, hello everyone! Just got home from a great Rover shopping day. Went to Rover's North and bought a whole bunch of goodies (they have great specials on) and a also bought a rare find in a Montreal british parts place. I bought a genuine Land Rover dealer sign! It's oval, about 3 feet by 3 feet and Yellow with the grees Land Rover letters. It used to be one of my rovers dealer in the Eastern Townships in Quebec! I'm thinking of installing it on the ceiling in my bedroom right over my bed. Hmmmm, I wonder what my girlfriend will say. I also missed a brand new diesel 2.25 engine (still in crate) for 100$. Rats! Tomorrow, I'll try to get that stubborn boly out, if the weather permits it. BTW, how much do you think is the sign worth? Michel Bertrand and Rudolph, 1963 109, Ottawa -- Michel Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 01:37:38 1994 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 23:32:53 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: I suppose I've worn out this request, I'm in search of a Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: lro@team.net X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Looking High and Low for a LR in the US that is a RHD. That someone will trade me. Give me a shout if there is a fellow LR owner who'll swap me my '73-SIII 88 SW valued at 8500 us. For RHD LR My first choice would be a SII 88 or 109 SW. Regresing from there. Or another option would be, can anyone trade/sell me RHD parts for a SII/Defender an will Defender RHD parts work? Please all give me some help. I will be soon posting a list of all my available spares. Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman '73-SIII 88 (206)365-3514 HM# (206)623-5460 WK# From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 02:25:01 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? To: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <1994Jun27.171456.1058403@learnlink.emory.edu> from "Sean P. Murphy" at Jun 27, 94 05:14:56 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1822 Status: RO Sean, Welcome to the land of LR! < stock 2.2 petrol engine, but with a Rochester carb, When my original Solex gave out, I tried Rochester because there was one handy and cheap. Bad news. I have since switched to Weber (with an expensive new manifold), and it was worth it. < As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably travel on a < highway? I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow? Speaking as the owner of the fastest Rover in the West (1966 109"), I'd say don't even think of getting by without overdrive if you plan on much highway driving (unless, of course, you have all time in the world and don't mind dirty looks as you hold up traffic much as a tractor would). < What does it cost to get a winch and a soft top for one? Winch prices vary greatly, but a $50 Hi-Lift Jack serves as a winch. Rovers North catalog lists 88" canvas for $410 and complete hoop set for $295. Great if you can afford it (and you can probably find cheaper than RN). I just built a bikini top for about $40 in parts, but I'm still working on some design flaws. The Haynes manual LAND-ROVER SERIES I, II & III GUIDE TO PURCHASE & D.I.Y RESTORATION by Lindsay Porter gives a lot of useful tips on what to watch for when buying a used LR. Cost tends to vary by region: I think the coasts are the more expensive. Rovers that have spent most of their lives in the dry West are less likely to suffer frame rust. Ultimately the condition you can live with and the price you will pay depends on your own feelings. I have found that LR is the only vehicle whose maintenance costs I do not resent, and that sort of peace of mind can be rather important. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 03:41:17 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: More on the stuck valve saga... Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:35:24 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO First of all thanks for all of the suggestions and advice. Bill Malony wrote: >1. My first thought was that there is a problem with the lifter (tappet) >assembly, but that wouldn't explain why the valve stuck in the open position. >Use a set of long needle nose pliers or hemostats and check to see that the >lifter slides up and down and that the roller is where it is supposed to be I'm not at my Rover so I can't check this right now, but I replaced the rollers about two years ago after the previous set failed. (I had purchased a reconditions short block from Atlantic British and the rollers they installed had not been hardened, so grooves wore into them very quickly. I haven't had a problem with them since. >2. Did you check the valve spring? Sometimes if the inner or outer is broken >it can cause the other spring to bind, holding the valve open. At the very >least, change the spring as well The springs were ok. When I took the spring off i had to use a hammer and a nail to gently tap the valve out of the guide. Since they were cheap, I also replaced all of the valve springs. >3. Lubrication. Is the oil making it up to your rocker assembly (probably)? > If so is the spray hole in the rocker of the affected valve clear? Is the >rocker to valve stem surface smooth or worn to the shape of the valve stem? >If the rocker end is worn it can put undue lateral stress on the valve itselfg >possibly causing it to bind in the guide (and causing the guides to wear in an >oval fashion). When I put the head on I visually checked to see that oil was getting to all of the tappets with the crank and with the engine running. All of the rocker arm surfaces are polished from striking the valves, but have no unusual visible or felt wear. So I got the valve out of the guide. On opposite sides, there were wear and binfing marks. Like the valve welded itself to the guide in small places. One weld/ wear area was up high and the other was down low. So the thought that crossed my mind was that somehow the valve shaft didn't have enough oil. This cylinder had two small cracks fixed so I thought that possibly the cracks had not been fixed correctly and water had seeped in. The water would then boil and clean the oil off the valve. But there was no evidence of water in the clyinder. I called the shop that did the work for me and they really wanted to set me right. So I scrounged up a ride to thier shop (after getting a new valve, valve guide and such from British Pacific.) They looked at the head and came to the conclusion that shit happens. We could find no evidence of why this happened. They were positive that the cracks had not leaked. After checking the clearances in the other valves (which were ok) they pushed out the old guide, put in the new one, reground the valve and I was on my way back. (they were really surprise that this happened) They also showed me the head from a Honda that had the timing belt fail, then the pistons hit all of the valves. It wasn't a pretty sight. So I'm in Pasadena, trying to scrounge a ride 100 miles north. So far the only taker is on Thursday so I have a bit of a wait. One of these days I'll get the head back in and be back on the road. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 03:47:56 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover Video Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 01:40:08 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO While I was getting parts at British Pacific, they popped a movie in that they had just gotten. It was a history of the Land Rover documentary. It would talk about the prototypes and then show the prototype with the center steering wheel driving. The movie talked about new features while showing what the vehicles could do. If I wasn;t pressed for time I would have stayed and watched the whole thing. The BP guys said that this was a new video and unfortunately I didn't catch the title. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 04:01:04 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rover Video To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 9:48:23 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406280840.AA018702812@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "Benjamin Allan Smith" at Jun 28, 94 1:40 am Status: RO > > While I was getting parts at British Pacific, they popped a > movie in that they had just gotten. It was a history of the Land > Rover documentary. It would talk about the prototypes and then > show the prototype with the center steering wheel driving. The movie > talked about new features while showing what the vehicles could do. If > I wasn;t pressed for time I would have stayed and watched the whole > thing. The BP guys said that this was a new video and unfortunately I > didn't catch the title. > > > -Benjamin Smith > ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu > 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 > Its called "The Land Rover Story"(original title,isnt it)made by James Taylor.15 quid over here.I enjoyed it,but IMO it isnt worth that sort of money,more like a tenner's worth.I borrowed a copy from my local public library for a quid(a week's worth). Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 04:12:25 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Southern Engine transplants. To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:35:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Jun 27, 94 00:10:36 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2050 Status: RO Robin writes: > it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants > that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to > what they must have tried that didnt work! > Cant think of any commonly available powerplant that doesnt have an adaptor plate available from someone, somewhere down under. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head which I have seen at least one of over the years include: Holden (GM) 6cyl and V8 (most popular) Chev V8 Valiant (chrysler) 225ci 6cyl, OZ 215, 245 & 265ci 6cyl, V8 (273,318) Ford 6cyl (x-flow and non-x-flow), V8 (windsor fits really neatly) Rover/Buick V8 and derivatives (inc 4.4L P76 V8) Rover 3L 6cyl Perkins diesels Nissan diesels Diahatsu diesels There must be some that I've forgotten. In addition there used to be an after-market turbo kit for the 2.25 diesel. Once saw a turbo 3.3L Holden six in an 88" , accelerated like a scalded cat, but not much use otherwise. > Say do you guys have the galvanic reactions from the wet seasons that we > do from the salt at all? Just asking. > "Down South" down under we have a mediteranean (sp) climate, you know summer winter autumn spring, (Hey I'ts new to me..) But the roads dont get salted, dont know much about the corrosion down here. Up north where I used to be (Darwin) the biggest problem was/is rusting of the window channels, you need to replace them every 3 or so years as they spent 4-5 months almost constantly wet. I have got a little "white rust" in places but not much. (like below the window channels) More cracks in the panels than corrosion. Of course if you back the thing into the sea when you launch the boat and dont wash it off ("why?, Its aluminium, it cant rust!") then that's a different bag of bolts so to speak. Cheers. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426 Fax:61_8 303 7102 P.S. Come back Terriann, I miss you :-( From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 03:17:38 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:17:54 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Priority: normal Status: RO > I am interested in purchasing a Land Rover and I need some advice on > one that I have found locally. I really want to know how much I should > spend and what I should expect out of these critters. I have never driven > one, so I am kind of running on air, since I don't know anyone here with > one. The vehicle I'm looking at is a 1964 Series IIA SW. It still has the > stock 2.2 petrol engine, but with a Rochester carb, which I have never > heard of. The wiring from the fusebox and engine compartment has been > burned out by a fire when a fuel hose became disattached and caught from > the manifold, but the thing was running before that. Most of the body is > straight, but there is relatively bad rust on both frame and firewall. I'm > not sure how complete this is, as the frame still appears rather solid, > despite the rust. What I'd like to know is what you would expect to pay > for a vehicle like this in your area. I am in the SE United States, so if > you know American $ figures, it would be appreciated. Corrosion in these areas seems to come in two flavours: mild\correctable and bloody disasterous. In yr instance, don't hesitate to don some overalls, take a strong flashlight and get underneath the unit. Inspect the frame literally inch by inch. Landie frame corrosion to really put you off will take the form of pin-holes (or worse!) appearing in the frame --> where the corrosion has eaten from the *inside* to the outside. That's the worst case -- internal frame corrosion -- there is no real way to telling just how far\extensive this has gone: assume the worst and pass. Alternatively, firewall corrosion is not a big deal to fix but it will require you to strip the body down. {Of course, patches of "fixable" frame corrosion -- outriggers, etc. -- may also require the body to come off to be patched and welded.} While yr looking at the frame, take a good peek at the two front "horns" of the frame that extend forwards of the front wheels (the front end of the springs go on here). Check for corrosion and most particularly crash damage -- cracks and twists in the frame. Not too serious as it can be straightened and welded tight with reinforcing plates. > As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably travel on a > highway? I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow? What does it > cost to get a winch and a soft top for one? Bear in mind that the Landie is basically a 1940's light truck design with sparse "upgrades" performed over a 40+ yr period. Underneath the neat body panels is a pretty crude and "agricultural" vehicle. The ride is harsh, the handling .... well, "indirect". If you've got back problems or a gammy leg, etc. a Landie will pall pretty quick believe me! (Ergonomics and Landies is an oxymoron!!!) Drivability issues: Generally top speed is around 60 mph (more if yr lucky and perhaps have a tail wind). Going flat out you'll have yr hands full steering, you'll also notice a significant drag factor on account of the "flat" aerodynamics of the body! Comfortable cruising is of the order of 45-50 mph on a level road -- encounter a steep hill and be prepared to drop down to 3rd and go up at 28-33mph (depending on yr tolerence for engine and gearbox noise!). A high speed motorway cruiser the Landie is not: in sum a good unit will chug along at around 47mph all day, fully laden with perhaps a trailer too and yr average speed will go right down to around 35-37mph. Again, keep in mind that the Landie was built around the typical roads of England in the late 1940's\early 1950's -- narrow, twisting, full of little 1920's and 1930's Austins\Morris's (top speed 50mph) and when heavy trucks were legally obliged to go no faster than 25mph, whilst for off-road and dirt road use in the colonies, well yes Model A Ford speeds were just about right. Even the Series 3 has more of this 1950 Ink Spots character than the Swingin' Sixties!!! Fast forward to the 1990's and you can readily imagine the snags.....! The main problem is the Brit 2.25l motor -- it's got great low down torque for off-road, but IMO simply runs increasingly on the back of the curve once you try to go over 40mph. (One of the reasons why out in the old Empire a popular move is to deep six the original Landie motor in favour of a higher capacity unit -- a Chevy 2.5l 4- banger engine from Brazil for e.g. is brilliant -- beaut low down torque for off-road with the advantage of a higher power curve: moves all the above speed figures up by 15-20mph ... but I digress!) I'm sure others will pitch in with some better advice and opinions and 'natch YMMV!!! Good luck! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 04:35:20 1994 To: lro@team.net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Howdy all- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:24:49 UNDEFINED Status: RO >All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l >desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with >a different head, pistons, and injector pump instead of the distributor, >inlet manifold, and the crank is made out of forged steel, instead of >cast iron. Infact, in England a lot of places acutally convert petrol >2.25 motors to desiel, and is a common practise to check the crank is >stamped with a 'D' instead of a 'P'. So if that is the case, then >it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a >TDi block. Anyone nkow how similar the 2.25 petrol is to the 2.5 normally aspirated deisel? The reason I ask is that our cretiin government is thinking about making all desiels older than 10 years illegal!!!!!!! So, if they go ahead with it, I was wondering how easy it would be just to say' to hell with it' and convert to a petrol? Cheers Andy +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 06:04:53 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:57:46 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at Jun 28, 94 10:24 am Status: RO Andy, This is a new turnup!It sounds very like the SMMT's idea to make all vehicles over ten years old illegal,or the notion that vehicles over a certain age should be limited in their operating range. Anyway,think of the opposition in the haulage and bus trades alone. Not to mention Land Rover's undoubted fury at such a suggestion.After all their longevity is part of their sales attraction.Plus,I doubt that such a bloody silly idea would get past the EU,things being as they are. Sounds like a bit of "kite flying" to me.Well I hope so anyway.I wonder of Whitehall is being got at by the oil companies,worried about the upsurge in diesel engines with their much reduced requirement for what the said companies sell.Personally,for what its worth,I reckon the most likely scenario(ugh,horrible word)is that the MOT/Plating requirements would be made so stringent that any ten year old diesel would be almost bound to fail on nice clean smelling of roses absolutely *crappy* "environmental" grounds.This would have the advantage that the politicians could slide the ruling in by the back door,and avoid yet another confrontation with the no longer long suffering Great British Public.As yet,though,there is nosign of such a move(like,mine passed,visual examination only),but there *is* a precedent in Japan,where I'm told the second "MOT" at six years requires the car to be as new.It isnt,of course,so the car is sold for a song(and a new one bought,which is the object of the excercise)to enterprising Asian blokes.These blokes ship them overseas and sell them at a vast profit.Stupid,but true. I cant honestly see it being a viable proposition to convert a 2.25 diesel into a petrol engine from a cost viewpoint.Especially since a secondhand petrol can be had *very* cheaply at present.Just about all you would use is the block and crank.Not that I,m doubting your word,I hasten to add, having re-read the above,but it *does* seem to be the silly season for such rumours.On the other hand,this so called government also seems to have got its knife out to the diesel all of a sudden,probably on the principle that if you can *see* the exhaust it *must* be bad for you.God help the steam preservation movement in that case!"Locomotives(and Land Rovers?)must consume their own smoke"all over again.Shades of the Rainhill Trials. Cheers Mike Rooth PS Thanks for the warning about red diesel,I hadnt thought of that! On the other hand,the Rover regularly get splashed when I park it close to where the tractor gets refuelled,so I,m probably done for anyway! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 05:48:05 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: A Landrover ride. WOW! From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) In-Reply-To: <9406272124.AA07077@hpsharp.fc.hp.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:08:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I saw this message on the off-road list, and thought it may be of interest. Forgive me if it has been already reposted here.... Ludovico >From: Darrin Sharp >Message-Id: <9406272124.AA07077@hpsharp.fc.hp.com> >Subject: A Landrover ride. WOW! >To: ai.gtri.gatech.edu!offroad >Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 15:24:27 MDT >Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > > > >I just got back from a trip to the UK. While there, I had a >fun little sidetrip that I thought might be interesting to >some of my fellow off-roaders. > >Just outside London is a place called the "Heritage Auto Museum". >They have a large collection of classic and not-so-classic >vehicles, how-it-works displays, videos, etc. Oh, and a gift >shop (of course). > >The most interesting part for me was their "Landrover >Demonstration Circuit". This is a short (3/4 mi?) obstacle >course constructed of all kinds of "hazards". The course winds >around quite a bit within an area of maybe 2-3 acres. It takes >about 10-12 minutes to traverse the entire course. > >The "hazards" consist of all kinds of good stuff: water crossings >of 20-30 yards long and a couple of feet deep; 30 degree side >hills; _deep_ rutted double track; steep up and down hills; a >"suspension articulation" section (more on this later); and >lots of mud (this is England, remember). > >It costs $6-8 US to get into the museum, then another couple $'s >US to go on the Landrover ride. The Landrover ride is a few >hundred yards away from the actual museum itself (but they're >connected by a shuttle train - pulled by a Landrover, naturally). > >Buying a ticket to the Landrover ride entitles you to ride >along for once around the circuit. Unfortunately, paying extra >for the privilege of driving is not an option :^( > >The vehicle I got to ride in was a brand new (400 miles on the >odometer) Landrover Defender 110. 2.? liter turbodiesel/5 speed, >10? passenger capacity, 110" wheelbase, 5 doors, skinny 7.5x16" >tires, and manually locking diffs front and rear. Suspension >was solid, live axles front and rear, with coil springs. No >aftermarket stuff that I could tell. Seemed like all factory >equipment. Pretty basic and utilitarian inside, but who needs all >that fancy trim anyway? The driver said it cost about 20,000 pounds >(~$30,000 US). Apparently this is about average for one of >these types of vehicles. > >This is a big truck. It has a wheelbase several inches longer >than a full size Bronco/Blazer, but is a little narrower. My >Wrangler has almost a foot and a half less wheelbase, and >I'm guessing at least 3-4 feet less overall length. > >Now for my impressions of the ride: > >WOW!! This Landrover was amazing. It easily motored over and >around several obstacles that I'm sure would've left my Wrangler >high and dry (or deep and wet) and in need of a winching. It had a >deceptively large amount of ground clearance. We easily traversed >several sections of very deep ruts without even scraping. > >It was also surprising agile for a vehicle this large. There >were no _really_ tight spots, but it negotiated the few sharp >corners pretty easily. > >The turbo diesel was very impressive. At one point, while going >up a fairly steep incline (20-30 degrees? it always seems steeper >than it really is) in 4-LO the driver took his foot completely >off the accelerator and we _idled_ up the rest of the incline. >Remember, this was a 3500-4000 pound vehicle with 8 passengers on >board! My Wrangler with its twice-as-big gas engine would've >stalled in a second if I tried that. The creeping ability of >this drivetrain was really astounding. > >One section of the course is called the "suspension articulation >demonstration section", or something like that. It consists of >a series of staggered concrete "railroad ties", followed by >a series of staggered concrete "donuts" set into the ground. >The ground around all the concrete emplacements is eroded quite >a bit. Hence, the concrete sticks up above the ground surface >a couple (maybe more) feet. All the obstacles are offset from >each other to varying degrees, so that the wheels on the >vehicle are constantly moving through large up-and-down arcs. > >Again, the Landrover just motored over all this without even >breathing hard. I was quite impressed with the amount of wheel >travel, and suppleness of the suspension. Way better than my >Wrangler. I've read several times that these coil-sprung >Landrovers/Rangerovers have the best engineered off-road suspension >available in the world. After this ride I'm inclined to agree. > >At one point the driver took us up on a side hill that had us >leaning _way_ over. I was getting pretty gripped, and it wasn't >even my vehicle! We got over so far that we started to slide >_sideways_ down the hill! Don't know if this is some kind of >optimization Rover does between center of gravity, track width, >tires, suspension, etc., or if we were just lucky. Anyway, I >was impressed (again) with the stability of the truck. > >Undoubtedly, some of this Landrover's feats were made possible >by the dual locking diffs. However, this vehicle still would >have had an amazing amount of off-road capability even without >them, I'm sure. > >If Rover had a decent dealer network in the US, and they sold >these things for reasonable prices over here, I'd buy one in >a second. Unfortunately, I'm afraid parts availability would be >pretty dismal in most places in the US, and they're out of my price >range anyway (a Defender like I rode in is about $40,000 US >here, and a Discovery is about $28,000 US). And, no diesel engines >on this side of the pond. Guess I'll have to stick to the American >and Japanese offerings for a while. > >Sure, you could probably build up a CJ/Wrangler/4Runner/Pathfinder/ >Blazer/etc. to match or better this Landrover's off-road >performance. But, it'd take thousands of dollars and a lot of >time. The Landrover was able to do this all in stock form, with >factory enginered parts. Pretty incredible, if you ask me. Except >for maybe the new coil-sprung Toyota Landcruisers, I'll bet this >is the most offroad capable stock vehicle you can buy today. >Plus, a Landrover Defender just looks _so_ cool! > >If you'd like more info on the museum (like directions), feel free >to e-mail me. The museum was OK, but the Landrover ride was lots >more fun, I thought. > >-Darrin Sharp (sharp@fc.hp.com) > --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 07:38:08 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: James B Russell Cc: Morgan Hannaford , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Sorry guys the rover petrol and the rover diesel share a block,but not the Perkins....common misconseption....btw..the petrol crank is cast not forged like the diesel...so don't interchangs p tp d ....d to p is OK tho... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, James B Russell wrote: > About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but... > > I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as > the Rover diesel. I think they are a fairly popular marine engine so it > is likely that parts, tech data, and service are commonly available. > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) > > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 07:48:03 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:35:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: DAVID DEAN Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <2FB3F799D@kea.lincoln.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hey! all this diesel stuff is getting me covered with soot! I have driven a Perkins powered rig.....Ugh!....the thing pounds like a trip hammer and is all reved out by 2000 rpm (gotta change the diffs AND use overdrive!) the massive torque at low speeds trashes the axles and driveshafts....but it would make a great tractor tho... steve HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On 28 Jun 1994, DAVID DEAN wrote: > >From: Craig Murray > > > >All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l > >desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with > >a different head, pistons, and injector pump instead of the distributor, > >inlet manifold, and the crank is made out of forged steel, instead of > >cast iron. Infact, in England a lot of places acutally convert petrol > >2.25 motors to desiel, and is a common practise to check the crank is > >stamped with a 'D' instead of a 'P'. So if that is the case, then > >it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a > >TDi block. > > This conversion from Petrol to Diesel sounds VERY interesting. Does > anyone have any info on suppliers or sources for such kits or parts? > Also, has anyone in Australia/New Zealand heard of such a conversion? > > Cheers, > > ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- > ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- > --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 06:44:55 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Howdy all- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:39:42 UNDEFINED Status: RO >This is a new turnup!It sounds very like the SMMT's idea to make >all vehicles over ten years old illegal,or the notion that vehicles >over a certain age should be limited in their operating range. >Anyway,think of the opposition in the haulage and bus trades alone. The problem here is that the big hauliers run newish trucks and sell the old ones off to little hauliers. The government likes big industries that give it money, but couldnt give a toss about little ones. The other folk who would complain are farmers, but they'd get a monster replacement subsidy off the EEC anyway. If there was too much fuss they'd simply exempt commercial organisations and shit all over teh private road user, as usual. >Not to mention Land Rover's undoubted fury at such a suggestion.After >all their longevity is part of their sales attraction.Plus,I doubt that And the Krauts are not flavour of teh month at the moment either........ So the government wont be too fussed about ******BMWs******* >Sounds like a bit of "kite flying" to me.Well I hope so anyway.I wonder If THEY"D made a fuss about it I'd agree, but the info came from a New Scientist environmental article as a throw away line from one of the government think (!!) tanks. So it's low profile enough to be true. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 07:52:44 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:40:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: David John Place Cc: Craig Murray , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO MORE diesel stuff?...That block is a 2.0 liter diesel! the 2.0 was a wet sleeve engine...you CANNOT use it for a petrol...if ya push the sleeves out the water comes splashing in!...... steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 19:46:04 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 10:36:16 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but... > > I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as > the Rover diesel. I think they are a fairly popular marine engine so it > is likely that parts, tech data, and service are commonly available. > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > (Seattle -- San Francisco) > > > > Where did you here that!!!!!! All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with a different head, pistons, and injector pump instead of the distributor, inlet manifold, and the crank is made out of forged steel, instead of cast iron. Infact, in England a lot of places acutally convert petrol 2.25 motors to desiel, and is a common practise to check the crank is stamped with a 'D' instead of a 'P'. So if that is the case, then it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a TDi block. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 20:30:02 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:21:01 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > >From: Craig Murray > > > >All Land Rover 4 cylinders after the series 1 were derived from the 2l > >desiel, The 2.25 petrol and desiel, are basically the same motor, with > >a different head, pistons, and injector pump instead of the distributor, > >inlet manifold, and the crank is made out of forged steel, instead of > >cast iron. Infact, in England a lot of places acutally convert petrol > >2.25 motors to desiel, and is a common practise to check the crank is > >stamped with a 'D' instead of a 'P'. So if that is the case, then > >it would be the same as the 2.25 petrol, and almost the same as a > >TDi block. > > This conversion from Petrol to Diesel sounds VERY interesting. Does > anyone have any info on suppliers or sources for such kits or parts? > Also, has anyone in Australia/New Zealand heard of such a conversion? > > Cheers, > > ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- > ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- > --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- > It is not a conversion, you just replace the crank, pistons, head, and manifolds, and the distributor pump, replaces the distributor, and hey presto, you have a desiel 2.25. Also, just remembered, that you have to replace the fly wheel, as the desiel one is twice as heavy, and the flywheel housing, and starter motor, as the desiel has about 3 times the compression of the petrol, 23:1 to be precise. The hardest part about this conversion, is getting the bits to do it, and it will cost a lot too, a distributor pump alone, can cost upwards of $1000 australian, then you have to injectors, and head and so forth. Just have a look at a work shop manual, and you will probably find that the block for both of the 4 cylinders have the same part number. P.S. Does anyone have a Rover Desiel Badge they are willing to sell for a reasonable price??? ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 27 20:51:15 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:43:23 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > That was interesting info on the crank for the 2.25. I had a bad score on > my petrol crank, so when I rebuilt the petrol I put my diesel one in its > place. It doesn't seem to make any difference to how it runs. I have all > the specs up to factory as far as bearing fits etc and I run about 60 lbs > of pressure etc. Was there something different about the weight or some > other problem with the swap. I seem to recall using different size > bearings however on mine or my buddies one when we did the three way swap. > Something I found was that to change the head from one series to another, > I had to use a different front cover because the thermostat housing is > deeper on one than the other. I had so many parts on the floor at one > time or another I don't really know what series ended up in the vehicle, > but I made one great engine out of three and it seems to be doing a good > job for me. One thing I was going to do and decided not to was use the > very heaby bull nose pully from the diesel. It seemed to suck to much > poser out of the engine to turn it so I went with the lighter petrol one > and it is working OK. For the guys getting into this hobby, the problems > or lack of them really at fitting just about any year part to your vehicle > is certainly a plus. With hard to find vehicles like ours, it is nice to > think a door wiil fit over a thirty year period or in my case an engine > from over a twenty year period and from diesel to petrol. One other > question. I have a good diesel block here. It seems to be a petrol block > with sleeves in it to reduce the diameter of the cyl. If I push the > sleeves out will I have a petrol block, after cleaning the wall etc. Just > a thought. Dave VE4PN > > By the way for the fellow asking about the 64 S II for sale. Mine is a 64 > SWB that had a rod through the block. The body was OK but needed care. I > paid $500 Canadian for it and with new paint motor, trans etc. I guess it > would fetch $5000 now. > A couple of things, 1. What is a bull nose pully, do you mean the pully on the crank shaft for the fan belt. 2. The only difference between the cranks on the petrol and desiel is that because the desiel one is forged steel, it is a lot stronger, therefore heavier. A petrol crank in a desiel motor will last long enough for the warrenty on the motor to run out. 3. As for sleeves in the motor, I though that all 2.25's were sleeved. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 01:55:18 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: I suppose I've worn out this request, I'm in search of a (fwd) To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 16:47:40 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Looking High and Low for a LR in the US that is a RHD. That someone will > trade me. Give me a shout if there is a fellow LR owner who'll swap me > my '73-SIII 88 SW valued at 8500 us. For RHD LR My first choice would > be a SII 88 or 109 SW. Regresing from there. Or another option would be, > can anyone trade/sell me RHD parts for a SII/Defender an will Defender > RHD parts work? Please all give me some help. I will be soon posting > a list of all my available spares. > Sincerely, > Benjamin J. Freeman > '73-SIII 88 > (206)365-3514 HM# > (206)623-5460 WK# > What do you mean by a RHD High and Low, I think you are talking about the high and low lever, Rover never made any right or left high low levers, they were just set up for right hand drive, form the start. They just moved things like the steering wheel, and the hand brake, and you can normally see where these things are meant to go on the other side of the vehicle. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 07:11:06 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 28 Jun 94 23:46:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Ben's Valve Train Problems Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ben, I'm glad to hear that your machine shop stood by their work. I'm sure you're anxious to get back on the road. I'd give you a lift but it would be a bit more than 100 miles from NJ. Since you won't be able to get a ride until Thursday, you have no excuse not to paint your head. I like Plasticote Ford Green (#302 I think). Be sure to clean all the grease off the head with solvent and a rag or paper towels. The stuff dries fast so apply a number of light coats. Should it die again if nothing else at least it will look good. Oh, if they fixed a crack, take a light and look and feel down the intake and exhaust runners. When a cracked head is "stitched" they drill a hole at one end of the crack, thread it, screw in a soft tapped plug until it snaps, grind it off, then repeat the process over the length of the crack overlapping the plugs. The plug will protrude into the intake or exhaust runner and is then ground flush. When I got the one head back that I had repaired for a crack, I found they had forgotten to grind off one of the plugs sticking out inside the runner. Since it was soft it didn't take much to grind it flush. A Dremel or drill with a grinding bit will work just fine. Be sure to feel all the way into the runners. If you have to grind one off be sure to flush out all the filings. Just a thought. Safe trip. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com 201-564-2073 W 201-835-1796 H From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 08:52:54 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: majordomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com lro-digest-request@uk.stratus.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 09:37:12 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Hi Folks, It seems there was a false start on the digest-announcement, as there was an error in the mail exchange records -- so after a few days if you had sent mail, you would get a bounce. This has been corrected, and it appears now that all is well. So if you had tried before to access it and had no reply or an error, please try again, and, of course let me know if you have any problems. (Now, this is important, 'cause as soon as it works for the digest, then it will be applied to the normal mailing list.) Cheers, -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 09:15:21 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Dieselphobia To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 15:03:52 BST Status: RO Now,why do I get the impression(faint,but nevertheless,pursuing) that Steve doesnt like diesels?Consider,dear sir,the advantages. One such being that Joe Lucas cannot stop your power unit revolving come what may.Once started(which admittedly Mr Lucas *is* at liberty to prevent)the entire electrical system can be consigned to the very devil,it is powerless to wreak its evil way upon you. You are domiciled in Soggie England/Wales/Scotland? Worry not, thy ignition is assured,yea even if thou venture deep into Ontario mud thy plugs,they foul not nor thy coil letteth thee deep into the plonker.And your battery,being wondrous large,will assist any two of these petroleum spirit powered contrivances to commence,both at the same time.(Footnote,is this a gang bang?). (Second footnote:more possibly a gang of bangers). What other form of prime mover will automatically lubricate your chassis when the fuel tank commences to leak? Ah,I have you there! And when the snow lies deep and crisp and...well you know.. consider,if you will,the simple pleasures of the outdoor life,as will become obvious when you light a bonfire under the fuel tank,thus warming your hands,even though your posterior be a fetching shade of blue. And then again,when motoring upon the Queen's Highway,should you consider the dear little old lady following in her horseless carriage to be following at an unseemly *close* proximity,the solution lies at your own right foot.Pushed suddenly floorwards,a cloud of black smoke will appear as in a miracle,both obscuring her from your gaze,and allowing you to proceed at the stately pace which is your right and privelige, providing unrivalled views of the surrounding scenery,and not attracting the unwelcome attentions of the local constabulary,viv-a-vis the *dreadful* crime of scorching. Indeed,a delight to all the senses,is the Compression Ignition power unit.Listen to the happy clatter of all four injectors,smell the heady delights of Heavy Fuel Oil post combustion,adjust the Hand Accelerator Lever to a siutable position,and recline at your ease. Ah bliss! And if,heaven forfend,you should suffer a (whisper) malfunction,far from means of succour and assistance,a little Heavy Fuel Oil added to a quantity of dry tinderand ignited will provide a suitable column of black smoke such as will enable you to summon help.It is,however, in circumstances such as these,advisable to have about your person a Navajo phrase book.Those Petroleum Spirit conveyances have none,no, not one of these advantages. *And I've still got my original half shafts,so there! Cheers Mike Rooth From ccray Tue Jun 28 09:56:18 1994 Subject: Lulu's dynamo light is on and won't go off... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 09:56:18 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1906 Status: RO Came home late sunday night. had to drive the last 25 miles with the dynamo light on. Stopped and made sure the fan belt was on, but was dark and didn't check anything else. Things are busy here and I haven't looked under the hood, yet... But I did look at my factory manual. The wiring diagram is pretty simple. -- from the voltage regulator to the dynamo -- from the dynamo back to the voltage regulator -- and on to the warning light. -- from the warning light to the ignition switch. Some advice please on the plan of attack... -- check for loose wiring and bad connections. -- check the generator -- the book says... o connect the two dynamo terminals o test for voltage between the two terminals and the "yolk" -- it says to use a moving coil voltmeter whatever that is o watch for voltage rise with increase in engine speed. Question is -- is this one of those common rover problems that everyone knows about. Such as... -- grounding, fuse... -- voltage regulator known to fail... -- dynamo just needs a rebuild... One disturbing note from the factory manual is a statement that "there are three types of dynamo and current voltage regulators fitted to Petrol engine models and two types fitted to Diesel engines as follows:" -- details omitted-- ... "It is important that the appropriate dynamos and current voltage regulators are used together as detailed above, otherwise there is a danger of burning out the dynamos..." Lulu is a 61 but the engine (and dynamo) is from a 69. Do I have a mismatch. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 10:18:04 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 10:45:56 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Foam and concrete Status: RO >Speaking of wierd things in frames, found a piece of concrete? in my >frame, back of left frame rail. Suspect this was a factory option, as >there is no conceivable way it could have gotten in there after >construction. Anyone else seen one of these? Ah! one of the rare ferro-cement Rovers! I believe that this was an Eastern-Bloc experiment to build Land-Rover knock-offs without steel. (Commies love concrete!) Inexpensive to build, though they failed miserably in the first mud-bog with GVW's in the 5 tonne range.... BTW - Robin talks of welding on galvanized frames...it is truly hazardous to your health..."metal fume fever" its called down here. Makes you "mad as a hatter," an old reference to the cadmium/mercury contamination hatters used to get from their trade. If you must do it, stick welding would probably be best, with a bloody big fan to blow the smoke and brimstone away. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 10:10:17 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 08:52:51 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Isolated Ground Status: RO I agree with Michel regarding the difficulty of isolating everything on the Rover. What he did to his truck has done most of what I was suggesting. My original plan was to improve the electrical system and I had not even thought of the corossion that is at the very least enhanced by the frame grounding. Michel I would be interested to know if you have noticed any real/measureable difference in your system. I was thinking of brighter tail,headlight and signal lights. Possibly a higher rate of charge to the battery while driving and maybe a sense that starter seems to have more juice. Thanks for the info. Roy - Chasing Farads out of my Rovers frame. From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Tue Jun 28 10:13:57 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Lulu's dynamo light is on and won't go off... To: ccray@lulu Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 16:14:39 BST In-Reply-To: <9406281456.AA21010@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jun 28, 94 9:56 am Status: RO Most likely thing is worn brushes in the genny,if mine is anything to go by.At any rate its the easiest thing to look at first! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 10:51:38 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 11:40:55 +0100 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: Robertslab Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO Hi, Unsubsrcibe me for now. -Brian M ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 11:20:21 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 11:55:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? To: "Sean P. Murphy" Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <1994Jun27.171456.1058403@learnlink.emory.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO HEY Come on folks.....there must be someone out there that will tell the truth.....Like...DON"T DO IT!!!!! ....Sean, you must understand that these people are NUTS! I do belive that most of the land rover owners have a love/hate relationship with the beasts. The IMAGE of the rover is wonderful "Hey mister..are you going on SAFARI?" "No kid, I just got back..." But as a vehicle??????? Hot,noisy,cold,wet,dirty,oily,bouncy,loud,slow,thirsty.......and we haven't made it to the end of the driveway yet!..... I RECOMMEND...(people are setting match to burner,I'm sure..) is to DRIVE ONE FIRST.....preferably on a long trip...(Little bro says,"LAND ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal" car...(and we are not normal people?) perhaps someone near Sean will offer to have him drive their pride and joy.. (remember,If he dosn't like it, you will get the address of the for sale rover...) go ahead folks,blast away... steve..... ps. normal price for the beast? I'd not give more than 500 for it...*might* be worth more...but without knowedgeable help to check it out,you could buy junk real quick like... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 12:00:38 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Galvanized Chassies. To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9406272330.AA07797@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Oh boy...I'm gunna get burned now ....BUT.... *IF* the old chassis is in good shape the galvination prossess will work as well on a used one as a new.....the proccess is a hot dip deal that causes the molten zinc to flow into the inside of the frame...the proccess also involves the electrodeposision of metal,so the inside gets coated like the out.....any rust(or paint) goes like popcorn when the frame is lowered into the 850 degree zinc!....I had mine done 3 years ago and zippo rust even here in central new york...when i dropped it off, they had to drill extra holes in the box sections to prevent pressurizaion(sp) and to allow the viscous zinc to flow into the small openings of the frame....I have inspected the inside of the frame with a bore scope and find the inside of the frame seems to have more zinc than the outside! I was told by the platers that amy welding repair should be mig welded or cleaned *really* well as the flux used in stick arc rejects the zinc... shiny shiny frame... steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, Craig Murray wrote: > Howdy all, > Just a couple of points my brother brought up about > galvanizing chassies on a Land Rover. > > The only Land Rover chassie that you should galvanize is a > new Land Rover chassie, as the chassie is painted inside, and out. > So when dipped in acid, to remove the paint and so forth from the > out side of the chassie, the paint on the inside, cracks, and the > chassie will now start to rust from the inside out. So beware. > To maintain the chassie, just keep it clean. > > ============================================================================== > Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 > mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 11:59:26 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:43:33 EDT From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Apparently-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Status: RO >The IMAGE of the rover is >wonderful "Hey mister..are you going on SAFARI?" "No kid, I just got back..." >But as a vehicle??????? >Hot,noisy,cold,wet,dirty,oily,bouncy,loud,slow,thirsty.......and we >haven't made it to the end of the driveway yet!..... >I RECOMMEND...(people are setting match to burner,I'm sure..) is to DRIVE >ONE FIRST.....preferably on a long trip...(Little bro says,"LAND >ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal" >car...(and we are not normal people?) Perhaps this is good advice but it is also *precisely* what brought me in to the LandRover fold. I went on Safari and puttered around southern Zimbabwe in several SII LandRovers. Zimbabwe having something like a 100% duty on imports, old vehicles are wonderfully maintained there. The ones I rode in looked like they'd come out of a showroom (allowing for a few dents and zebra kicks). Came back with an apartment full of dead stuff and a love of LandRovers. And now I have one along with a refurbishment goal I'll probably never achieve. If only I could figure out the quart-every-few-hundred-miles leak... :-) monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 11:55:34 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:45:07 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Status: RO >HEY Come on folks.....there must be someone out there that will tell the >truth.....Like...DON"T DO IT!!!!! ....Sean, you must understand that these >people are NUTS! I do belive that most of the land rover owners have a >love/hate relationship with the beasts. The IMAGE of the rover is >wonderful "Hey mister..are you going on SAFARI?" "No kid, I just got back..." >But as a vehicle??????? >Hot,noisy,cold,wet,dirty,oily,bouncy,loud,slow,thirsty.......and we >haven't made it to the end of the driveway yet!..... >I RECOMMEND...(people are setting match to burner,I'm sure..) is to DRIVE >ONE FIRST.....preferably on a long trip...(Little bro says,"LAND >ROVER..makes every road seem like off road...") This is not a "normal" >car...(and we are not normal people?) while i agree with all that steve said, i'll mention that my first car (ownership-wise) was my 88' which i bought for $900 (way too much) and have been driving for the last 5 years. so, while buying a rover without ever having driven one may be an error, it's not fatal ;) >ps. normal price for the beast? I'd not give more than 500 for >it...*might* be worth more...but without knowedgeable help to check it >out,you could buy junk real quick like... agreement here also. one thing to note (references jan hilbrn's advice) is that if you are going to whack at the frame with a hammer to check things out, whack HARD. when i was looking at my dead beast, i followed this advice, but was way too gentle. later, when i towed t to my home, a went at it more realistically, and half the frame came off (eventually replaced with a new galvanised frame, after much patching for the first 3 years). jory p.s. gonna finish the second tank installation today. just got the locking rivnuts (thanks Mark, for all the help!), and everything is already plumber, wired, undercoated, etc... now i have a ser iii filler on one side, and a ser iia on the other! p.p.s. leaving for california in the next couple days. gonna be taking the "northern route" (haven't determined it exactly with a map, but that's what everyone tells me i hsould to). hopefully my journey will be less eventful than ben's From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 12:36:12 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:18:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Dieselphobia To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406281403.AA15608@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Oh but to write the flowery prose of Mike Rooth..... I *LOVE* Rudi's big joke,really!...and I agree with the James Bond technique for dealing with tailgaters...but the 2.0/2.25 rover is "notsogood"...and the perkins should stay in the boat it came out of! It is the impulsiveness of the power at low speeds that twists the shafts up good.....The TDi is better than sliced bread and most of the Japo-sneeze stuff is wonderful....But as it is not easely understood by the lay-person (as apposed to the "LIE-person"at the garage....) it is tough for me to recommend them to everyone..... there I go, "rattling" on... steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 13:13:16 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Ben's Valve Train Problems In-Reply-To: Your message of "28 Jun 94 23:46:08 PST." <199406281203.IAA23981@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:02:27 PDT Status: RO In message <199406281203.IAA23981@transfer.stratus.com> you write: > Since you won't be able to get a ride until > Thursday, you have no excuse not to paint your head. I like Plasticote Ford > Green (#302 I think). Be sure to clean all the grease off the head with > solvent and a rag or paper towels. The stuff dries fast so apply a number of > light coats. Should it die again if nothing else at least it will look good. If I can't find a ride today, this will be my project. At least it will be something to do. > Oh, if they fixed a crack, take a light and look and feel down the intake and > exhaust runners. When a cracked head is "stitched" they drill a hole at one >end of the crack, thread it, screw in a soft tapped plug until it snaps, grind The two cracks were along the surface of the head starting at the edge of the combustion chamber. They were nowhere near the intake or exhaust runners. In fact nothing moving is anywhere near them. The cracks were fixed with two screw plugs put in at a 45 degree angle and are about a cm long. Both ends were either ground or machined smooth. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 12:09:02 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:02:42 -0600 (CST) From: "Peace be with you." To: lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com X-Vms-To: 7731::IN%"lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com" X-Vms-Cc: GIURIN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO subscribe lro-digest From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 13:13:41 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Jun 94 12:45:07 PDT." <9406281645.AA19955@MIT.EDU> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 11:05:16 PDT Status: RO In message <9406281645.AA19955@MIT.EDU> you write: > > p.p.s. leaving for california in the next couple days. gonna be taking the > "northern route" (haven't determined it exactly with a map, but that's what > everyone tells me i hsould to). hopefully my journey will be less eventful > than ben's Which northern route? We may pass on the road. I'm planning on US route 2 from Seattle to Michigan (with side trips to see Roy and to see the North Dakota Badlands). Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 13:38:39 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 14:30:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Subscription info To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 45 Status: RO Please add me to your mailing list Thanks. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 14:15:10 1994 X-Sendmail-Version: 8.6.9 X-Authentication-Info: costales@localhost From: costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Bryan Costales) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 12:08:46 -0700 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: SFO to Laramie in July Status: RO With renewed enthusiasm, I have spent the last few weeks getting ready for a 900 mile trip to Wyoming. I will be leaving either July 2 or July 3 in the early morning and heading out I-80. I expect to camp in the east Nevada Ruby Mountains and west Rockies (with perhaps one or two other stops in addition to those). Any suggestions for great spots to visit along the way will be greatly appreciated. Here is a quick description of what I did to get ready and the problems I had to overcome: 1. Installed a rebuilt head with stellite valve stuff. Got it with core exchange from Atlantic British. I first got a new head, but it appeared to be seriously misthreaded. I sent that back and got a rebuilt head that worked perfectly, except that the temperture sensor hole seemed too big. I got a new sensor and it fit better (with several wraps of teflon tape). A new summer thermostat and non-toxic anitfreeze. I also installed a rebuilt rocker assembly from Atlantic British and the #4 and #5 arms were reversed. At this point I am starting to develop a low opinion of AB. 2. I installed a 2 barrel Weber also from Atlantic British. The supply some funky linkage parts that just plain don't work. I contacted Rovers North and got a cable linkage they make. It fit perfectly and works like a dream. In retrospect I should have gotten the whole weber setup from Rovers North. (Lower opinion of AB). 3. At the recommendation of our neighborhood mechanic, I switched to synthetic (motor and 90 weight). No verdict yet, but preliminary short drives are fine. Long ago, I installed a spin on adapter, so a new oil filter was a breeze. (If you don't have that adapter, I recommend you get one). 4. An overdrive and rack round out the picture. I can now cruise at 60 to 65 on the flat. The Weber runs smoother than either of my earlier carbs (a used and a new rochester). The overdrive reduces the noise. (I long ago installed boat engine sound deadening form under the hood and under the floor mats. The also reduce the sound alot.) 5. And of cousrse the usual misc. like timing, adjusting the breaks, lubing the zerks, and so on. No surprises here. Tonight I will be packing the spare parts and list of phone numbers for repair shops along the way. If any of you are in the neighborhood of my route this weekend, look for a white over red, 1974 series III 88", with a large blue wrapped package on a galvanize rack, tire on the hood and two gas cans on the back. -- Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi 37 degrees 52.193 minutes north by 122 degrees 16.277 minutes west From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 15:56:03 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: More on the stuck valve saga... To: Benjamin Allan Smith Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406280835.AA017912528@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Good luck. I'll look for you in Seattle since I'm flying up Thursday night. Alas, I will be leavint the Rover in San Francisco. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 16:10:42 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 14:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: Steven M Denis Cc: Morgan Hannaford , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dunno where I picked that info up about the Perkins block (or, at least that there was som commonality) -- it was long, long ago I heard it (when I first got my Land-Rover some 18 years ago) which was why I said I might be all wrong. Still, common misconceptions usually have some basis and now I'm kind of curious as to why this one exists. Could it be that they (meaning the engines themselves) are often interchanged? Sounds like we have at least one instance of that here. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, Steven M Denis wrote: > Sorry guys the rover petrol and the rover diesel share a block,but not the > Perkins....common misconseption....btw..the petrol crank is cast not > forged like the diesel...so don't interchangs p tp d ....d to p is OK tho... > > HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" > > Steven M. Denis > PO BOX 61 > Erieville,NY 13061 > > > > On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, James B Russell wrote: > > > About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but... > > > > I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as > > the Rover diesel. I think they are a fairly popular marine engine so it > > is likely that parts, tech data, and service are commonly available. > > > > Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com > > (Seattle -- San Francisco) > > > > > > > > > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 17:16:10 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:08:51 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner) Subject: Alternative Parts - 1st draft Status: RO To all those that responded to the call for a list of alternative parts thanks. Here is the first draft. I haven't done much other than put everything I received into one document. Later I will spruce it up but for now I was hoping to put this out and perhaps get more additions. I have tried to keep the names of people with their suggestions but in some cases I lost the info. Let me know if you are one of them. Greg PS - don't forget the RoverWeb - http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500/ ******************Distributor****************** FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some night! Steven M Denis Date: 24 Jun 94 13:24:01 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:hiner@mail.utexas.edu" Subject: Re: Alternative Parts GREAT STUFF MY ENGINE DIED AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF A DISTRIBATOR PROBLEM. COULD NOT FIND A RELPACEMENT FOR MY 1966 109' WAGON WITH A 50'S ENGINE. FINIALLY SOMEONE SUGGESTED GOING TO A JAGUAR SHOP.....GOT A LUCAS DDB117[54417212] DISTRIBUTOR..WORKS BETTER THAN THE ORGINAL. BENJAMIN From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Date: 24 Jun 94 12:53:19 -0600 To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu Subject: RE: Alternative Parts actually the distrubutor is used on several english cars such as the austin mini for that fact any a series engine. on another note the four cylinder datsun with electronic distributors are the same diameter and length as the minis and i suppose the landrovers.thus making it a almost identical swap, the only difference is the distributor drive which is held by a pin. a small modification is needed to fit the standard rover drive on but it does work. the datsun distrubutor also has vacumm and centrifical advance, yippee...make sure the distrubutor turns the same direction as your original rover.!!! one more thing the electrical unit is all attached to the distributor and any moron can hook her up... Series 3 distributors will go into Series 2. **********************Seals*************** Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694 American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub.

Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:37:27 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, hiner@mail.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Alternative Parts X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Transmission oil seals; These are National Oil Seal/Federal Mogul numbers Atlantic Britsh cat. number CR16254 13 output shaft CR19359 12 trans to transfer case CR6143 573 speedo drive plate Wheel hub seal; 410694 330 *************Master Cylinder***************************** David John Place said that a 1970 something brake master cylinder bolted up to the Land Rover and worked fine. The brake cylenders I mentioned are from 72 Hornet, 68 Ambassador or 66 Classics. The work very well on the power assisted brake units in the Land Rover. ***************Bearings******************************* Bearings - readily available - just take the old one with you. ***************Shocks************************************ Shocks - U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine. The numbers are G63494 and G63299. The longer ones go on the back. David John Place ************ Diffs ******************************** Rover car diffs from the 1950's P4 range (90's, 100's etc.) drop in. ************ U-joints ******************************** U-joints AEC Brand AEC 521 HD 286 U-joint 2 15/16" across (late) AEC 504 3092 U-joint 2 7/32" across (early) ************ Engines ******************************** From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Southern Engine transplants. To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:35:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Robin writes: > it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants > that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to > what they must have tried that didnt work! > Cant think of any commonly available powerplant that doesnt have an adaptor plate available from someone, somewhere down under. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head which I have seen at least one of over the years include: Holden (GM) 6cyl and V8 (most popular) Chev V8 Valiant (chrysler) 225ci 6cyl, OZ 215, 245 & 265ci 6cyl, V8 (273,318) Ford 6cyl (x-flow and non-x-flow), V8 (windsor fits really neatly) Rover/Buick V8 and derivatives (inc 4.4L P76 V8) Rover 3L 6cyl Perkins diesels Nissan diesels Diahatsu diesels There must be some that I've forgotten. In addition there used to be an after-market turbo kit for the 2.25 diesel. Once saw a turbo 3.3L Holden six in an 88" , accelerated like a scalded cat, but not much use otherwise. ****************Wipers***************** The windshield wiper motors used on most boats ( can get the name of mine if you want it) work great for the rear wiper set up on the stationwagon.David John Place ****************Alternators************* The best alternator repalacement is the Delcotron which has a built in regulator so you don't have to worry about the condition of the old Land Rover one. They are readily available at any junk yard in the US.David John Place ****************Soft Tops***************** Parts to make soft tops are always available at boat top places. The nylon slides, clamps etc fit regular conduit. To make the front attachment for the windshield, go to a trailer shop and order a piece of aluminum canopy track. It is the kind roap slides into on the side of a trailer. It is better than the original because it is not only waterproof, but winds wont get under it when you are on the highway.David John Place ***************Hoses******************** For Range Rovers, I know from experience that there is a Gates flexible radiator hose that works for the top hose, but none for the bottom (at least 89 up, with the t junction hose). ***************Misc********************** RR - I noticed the door lock mechanism had a GM stamp on it when I had mine apart recently. RR - The electric seat controls alledgedly come from Mercedes, but I doubt if the prices are much different from them. RR - The air conditioning is a Sandia unit commonly used in many makes in the US, and parts probably a lot cheaper from a/c shops than LR dealers. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 16:20:55 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Brakes... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 15:18:53 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO As the task for the weekend shall be getting the little Earth pig ready for a safety check, a number of items will need to be addressed, namely electrics and brakes. The former have been swiped by George to get his 109 going for the Birthday Party, and being Honda wires, circa 1965 cap rotor etc. I didn't mind. The brakes just didn't survive the winter and I am not prepared to deal with something that is suspect. It is far safer to replace the lot. For those interested, brake lines do not necessarily need to be purchased from Merseyside or Rovers North. In fact, in the former case, they advise that it is far cheaper to buy the lines locally than to have them shipped over from the UK. Note, all of these lines are double flared. You can make them up yourself with the proper tools, with the original ends from the lines you removed, or purchase new ends. Some suppliers also stock generic lines with the ends in premeasured lengths. Land Rover (IIa) Description Ends Length Brake lines: 277922 Front left M - F 72 inches 277923 Front Right M - F 31 inches 279418 Junction to Rear M - F 58 inches 504517 Rear left M - M 42 inches 592375 Rear right M - M 22 inches Flex lines: RTC3353 Flex lines Lucas part # gph90 Note: The rear flex line carried a different number from the 109. The 109 used three of the RTC3353 lines, the 88 rear flex line is RTC3386. For simplicity, I have used the 109 on my 88. Makes keeping spares simplier, especially when you own four of each wheelbase. Cylinders: 520849 CB brake master Girling part # SP1980 243296 88" front right " " SP2051 243297 88" front left " " SP2051 243302 88" rear right " " SP1215 243303 88" rear left " " SP1215 Shoes: RTC3411 Front & rear brake shoes Note: This assumes that you have not been swaping axles around that tends to be a habit up here. A 109 front axles certainly helps an 88 stop a wee bit faster... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 17:34:34 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:27:44 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9406280121.AA17208@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Craig. I have all the pieces from a diesel I took apart. I don't wa}int to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and use it as a petrol? Dave VE4PN From nuucp@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz Tue Jun 28 17:34:56 1994 Subject: Re: Lulu's dynamo light is on and won't go off... To: ccray@lulu Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 9:43:35 NZT From: Hugh Grierson Content-Length: 611 Content-Type: text In-Reply-To: <9406281456.AA21010@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jun 28, 94 9:56 am Status: RO > -- check the generator -- the book says... ... > Question is -- is this one of those common rover > problems that everyone knows about. Such as... Well the last time this happened to me I just followed the Haynes manual instructions ("moving coil voltmeter"? dunno - I used an "any old voltmeter"). Identified probable worn brushes. I pulled the dynamo and removed the back and sure enough, the brushes were worn right down. A couple of dollars to replace, and maybe an hour or so total work. Easy for even a semi (barely) competant DIYer like me. Of course, check all the connectors first. Cheers, From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 17:56:40 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 17:41:34 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9406280143.AA21832@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi Craig. Yes the bull nose pully is probably a name we Canucks use for the fan belt pully that the starter handle dog screws into. The diesel one is quite heavy and I was going to use it but my mechanic friend said I should go with the lighter petrol one. About the sleeves. I guess you could be right. I thought the Land Rover block was made without sleeves and that if you took out any sleeves you would be down to the water jacket. It would make sense however if you were going to make one block do for both engines just make a different sleeve and presto you have a diesel block. I had a petrol with one bad cylinder wall and I could have just put in a sleeve and used the old block. Well live and learn. This is why the Internet is so great. There is so much knowledge out there if you ask. I would not have gone the II route when I had the IIA that could have been fixed. One idea this gives me is to put all my spare parts into another engine and have a spare for the next time I throw a rod etc. Thanks Dave VE4PN From ccray Fri Jun 3 11:20:42 1994 Subject: Re: Birmabright welding To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 11:20:42 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <2ZJaNc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Michele Bertrand" at Jun 2, 94 08:48:49 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2947 Status: RO Michele Bertrand was bold enough to point out... > >Hi! I have a few questions regarding Birmabright welding. > >1) Is it possible to MIG-weld Land Rover components? I have worked at welding the aluminum panels with mixed results. And I have reported/bored the LRO list with some of this in the past, but hey, we have some new subscribers. -- my mig welder is medium ($$$) grade -- it won't push aluminum wire smaller than .45 so that is what I use. And I have infinite control on speed, but 4 switches to choose from on heat. It seems to me that I can't get enough speed for smooth welds as I tend to have it turned up to max speed and still want more. So my aluminum welds are embarassing to look at, but I think quite strong. I take an aluminum grinding wheel (normal ones fill up) and grind them smooth and they look ok. TIP: If you put a piece of steel flat behind a butt weld, it makes the backside quite smooth -- it doesn't stick. And you grind down the front side. I even took an adult education class to get to a TIG welder, but that really didn't work for me for various reasons. They (the school) had a spool-gun attachment that seemed to work the best, but $$$ are involved here. > >2) If so, what is the proper feed-wire, is it #4043, #5356, or #1100, and >also what is the proper size? (.24, .30, .35, .45 in) > I think a smaller wire at higher speed would be better than what I reported above, but I can't try it... >3) Do we also use, just like aluminium, Argon as the isolating inert gas? Yes, argon. > >4) Do you have any comments/experiments on this kind of welding, is it >worth it? > If you have the equipment or want to spend your time and money moving into that arena of the hobby, then you can weld up tears and fill them quite nicely with aluminum body filler. And think of the steel projects you can attack. I did have a transmission bellhousing welded at a welding shop -- $65 mistake. So it is my humble opinion that you probably can't afford commercial repairs -- that is -- used parts would be cheaper. >5) OOPS! I just realized that I forgot one word in my first question: >"Body" goes between Land Rover and components. > FYI, my next excursion into aluminum welding will be with gas. I can get for $79 a jeweler's tip for my torch set. With that I think I can get close to duplicating the heat and concentration of the TIG welding setup. I will get some aluminum rods and try that technique. Butt welds are hard -- holes burn thru too easy, so I might just swallow my pride and put some sort of backing plate on the side you aren't supposed to see... >Thanks for answering those very technical questions. Don't forget, Happy >Rovering, and bring a fire extinguisher! > >Michel Bertrand and Burnt-plastic smelling Rudolph, Ottawa, Ontario > > >-- >Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > From ccray Fri Jun 17 16:45:00 1994 Subject: Re: Grettir's Unrequited Love - Part II To: grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 16:45:00 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9406161528.AA01311@keflavik.wordperfect.com> from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Jun 16, 94 09:28:26 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3477 Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson was bold enough to point out... > >I've contacted 3 dealers on the list that Mike Rooth kindly posted >from LRO. Here are the results: > I promised a posting of the AL Workhorse article -- here it is. Ray (sore fingers) Harder. ********************************************************************* ** The following was a letter that was published in the Spring 94 ** ** issue of the LROA magazine: The Aluminum Workhorse ** ********************************************************************* Dear Sirs, I have read recently in various publications, i.e. LRO Magazine and a cutting from the Toronto Star that there is a great swell of enthusiam for Land Rovers in North America. As a Land Rover enthusiast I am very interested in what is going on over there with you, as my hobby is rebuilding old Land Rovers. I am writing to you to find out if there is any way I can help you to put and keep Land Rovers on the road. Living in the Scottish border country (on the border with England), we have access to a large source of vehicles and rebuild them using new galvanized chassis and many genuine and non-genuine parts. I buy these parts from a friend, Rupert Leng of Leng Land Rovers Ltd. Rupert and I have the following proposals which may be of interest. It is based on me refurbishing vehicles and Rupert providing parts. o Supplying Refurbished vehicles: Refurbished to your specifications, i.e. using genuine or non-genuine parts whatever required, various engine configurations, color, types of seats, etc. o Supplying vehicle and parts to repair: Supply a vehicle which has ended it's first life, along with the parts required for enthusiasts in your country to rebuild it. o Supplying a vehicle only: We can send out to you a vehicle which, as above, has come to the end of it's life, leaving you to source parts to rebuild it. Or you could break it for spares. Given the time, we can source most models along with access to many new and second hand parts, i.e. various engines, etc. If any of the above are of interest to you or your club members I would be pleased to hear from you/them. Rod Barry 32 Wythbank Row Clovenfords, Selkirk-shire TD1 3NK Scottland, U.K. Phone 089685 619 (h) 031 554 6736 (w) ********************************************************************* ** Per Roy's suggetsion, here is the 109 advertised in the same ** ** issue ** ********************************************************************* 1962 109 Safari Land Rover -- 12 seater. "The Tank". 2 1/4 petrol w/9 years on rebuild -- still excellent. Body excellent w/recent respray. New doors, doorposts, modesty skirts, front panel. Near new springs. Near new headliner. New petrol tank. Color - Marine blue w/ limestone. L5000 (english pounds) Buyer must pay shipping. Phone Halifax (0422) 355347 (England). ********************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Thu Jun 2 16:27:34 1994 Subject: Re: Thunder Rover To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 16:27:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199406021727.NAA19366@transfer.stratus.com> from "maloney" at Jun 2, 94 11:54:22 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1234 Status: RO maloney was bold enough to point out... >The last item I dealt with was drilling the new front bumper for the 88 for >the new D rings my folks brought me from England last summer. Next I have to >decide on a welder to install my new front chassis horns. I'm debating >whether to drive up to Mechanicville (3.5 hours) to have Bob Fischer do the >welding, or try someone locally. > OK, lets talk about d-rings for awhile. I am getting a shipment -- yes, it *has* left england -- of some used parts from steve parker land rover. Included in the shipment are 6 d-rings. (I like spare parts). I figured one would just put a longer bolt thru the two holes in the front horn that the bumper attaches to. Is this the story. Do I need to drill and put holes in the front bumper, too? Do d-rings get in the way of front bumper extensions, cause I am getting 4 of those, too. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Fri May 27 08:28:47 1994 Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards To: vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu (Vance Chin) Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 08:28:47 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9405270757.AA14361@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Vance Chin" at May 27, 94 00:57:26 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1305 Status: RO Vance Chin was bold enough to point out... > > > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >metal due to it being a bit thick. > I picked up some 3-M caulking strips at an auto body supply house They are about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 12 inches long. There is about 50 or so in a box. Some sort of auto body putty. They stick good enough to allow you to put them into position and then put the floorboards (in my case, also the seat base) into position. I used a new attachment kit from RN for the floorboards. After tightening, I went back with a razor knife and cut off the excess. Its so tight now that the coffee or beer doesn't leak thru -- it just sets there and dries after a day or so. These 3-M strips are available in grey and black -- I used grey cause that looked close to the original dum-dum color. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Thu May 26 08:48:56 1994 Subject: Replacement hoods - was Re: Series III Questions To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 08:48:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199405251749.NAA04654@transfer.stratus.com> from "maloney" at May 26, 94 05:17:45 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1419 Status: RO maloney was bold enough to point out... >>> > 2) I want to buy a soft-top for my Station Wagon. I can't understand the >difference between a 3/4 and a full lenght hood. Is the 3/4 for pick-up >bodies? >>> > >Yes, full length fits your wagon and 3/4 fits a pick-up. Be careful when >ordering colors, in the UK Khaki = US olive green. UK Stone = US sand. I >liked the Stone myself (blue 88). > I too am wanting a replacement hood. In LRO, it appears they hover around the L100 - L105 range from UK suppliers. Of course, there is shipping, exchange, etc. But the question is, how do I know if I am getting a good one. Fabric weight, construction, seams are probably important. I could specify when I order I want a specific brand (which one??), an OE equivalent, 20oz fabric, or a multitude of other things. Any advice? It is important to me that it fits right and does not leak. And I think I want fairly heavy canvas. Other considerations since this is my first (hoop set is in the mail.) Apparently, some come with side-lites but others are purely canvas. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Thu May 5 09:22:33 1994 Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 09:22:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9405051318.AA19128@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at May 5, 94 02:18:09 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 609 Status: RO Steve Methley was bold enough to point out... >Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in >a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you >there. Steve, give us info (and opinions) on the v8 and lbc lists, please. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Fri Apr 22 08:59:45 1994 Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 22 Apr 1994 08:59:45 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Apr 21, 94 02:23:59 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 983 Status: RO Robin Craig was bold enough to point out... > >Somebody told Dixon a while back that the Camel Trophy has been an >exclusive Land Rover product event since its inception, WRONG! The first >Camel event used Jeeps, yep, have pictures in a magazine and article to >prove it, now do you really want me to dig it out to finally put this one >to rest? > Yes, I would like to understand more of this. I have a couple of jeeper buddies that I would like to lower a notch or two. And it is my understanding that camel cigarettes sponsered this for quite a while. Did LR or Jeep provide monitary sponsorship in any way during the early years? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Wed Apr 27 15:17:44 1994 Subject: Re: Pricing of used 2.25 petrol engine? To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com (Mark V Grieshaber) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 15:17:44 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9404271811.AA15025@shute.monsanto.com> from "Mark V Grieshaber" at Apr 27, 94 01:11:13 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1277 Status: RO Mark V Grieshaber was bold enough to point out... > >Any opinions on what a fair price for a used (~80k miles) >petrol 2.25 engine might go for? Pertinent facts: > > - removed in running condition 11 years ago (in favor of a diesel) > - when running, it smoked on startup, but was otherwise ok > - includes both manifolds, solex carb > - includes starter > - includes fuel pump > - includes generator > - stored inside since removed (with sparkplugs in place) > - currently turns freely > >Ray, didn't you just pick up a frozen 2.25 engine recently? > My $185 deal 200 miles away was about the same except frozen. I am humble to report that my wife nixed the deal and I didn't get it. Not only don't I have the engine but I had given my word to the guy that I was buying it. It was a hard phone call to tell him "sorry". I still scheme about acquiring it and feel I have good odds that it will eventually happen. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Fri Apr 8 11:00:01 1994 Subject: Re: Transfer case.. HELP! To: brywhite@quagmire.corp.sgi.com (Bryan White) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:00:01 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9404080831.ZM2503@quagmire.corp.sgi.com> from "Bryan White" at Apr 8, 94 08:31:00 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 882 Status: RO Bryan White was bold enough to point out... > >What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? .... > There is a label on the dash that says in so many words: -- auto tx in neutral -- car stopped or slight roll -- shift smartly. I think 5 mph is a little too fast and having the auto tx in neutral is probably also important. When I do mine that way, all is silent except for the incessant beeping from the computer for a couple of seconds..... This is the way I remember it -- mileage may vary... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (Sir Charles -- wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ccray Tue Mar 22 07:03:07 1994 Subject: Re: Rover in the Cinema To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 07:03:07 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <9403220921.AA03579@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Mar 22, 94 09:21:41 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 472 Status: RO Does "Rovers in the Cinema" qualify for a FAQ section. I have those that were sent out -- I could boil them down for inclusion. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 18:48:29 1994 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:34:46 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Isolated Ground Return To: Michel Bertrand Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <09XLoc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO While looking through the new J.C. Whitney catalogue, I came across an electronic rust control system for $149.99 for the standard and $199 for what they say is a shock resistant off road version. I am an old ham radio operator and from the discription of how it workks, I would say it should work just fine. I suspect that the less expensive way is as I described it the other day. Use boat motor anodes. The electronic system uses anodes too, but they are controlled by some kind of microprocessor which seems to sense the currents and sends signals in the form of ion changes to the metal parts. It might be worth a try . I still think however that the + ground system the English invented was not so bad. I am an informed consumer level type not an engineer, but physics says that + charged areas are deficient in electrons so they flow toward the + area. This is a type of system electroplating uses. I guess you wouldn't at least remove ions and thus metal set up this way. Just a thought. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 21:19:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 20:33:02 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There has been alot of mention of the changing faces of the two current monthly Land Rover magazines in Britain. There are more and bigger changes to come around the corner. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 22:53:16 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: LRO@stratus.com Date: Tue, 28 Jun 94 23:48:05 EDT Subject: Re: Dieselphobia Status: RO Mike Rooth writes.... >Now,why do I get the impression(faint,but nevertheless,pursuing) >that Steve doesnt like diesels?Consider,dear sir,the advantages. Actually, Steve LOVES diesels.. It's just that he spent months riding around in his 109 wearing ear protection. His comment - "louder than a Siberian Boiler Factory".. And hid DID do a very nice conversion with a Nissan diesel to an 88. Not to mention owning a diesel VW vanagon, diesel VW Jetta and a diesel VW Rabbit.. (Yeah, I know Steve.. you DON'T have any of them anymore!!) He did convince me that diesel is the way to go. (I bought his Rabbit). Now if I can only drop a diesel in my Spitfire..... Cheers Mike Loiodice landrover@aol.com From root@showme.missouri.edu Tue Jun 28 23:58:16 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 00:00:01 -0500 From: root@showme.missouri.edu To: ccray@lulu Subject: showme.mailstats.062994 Status: RO ---------- start of daily mailstats ---------- Sendmail statistics from file "/etc/sendmail.st" Collection started at Tue Jun 28 00:00:02 1994 Mailer msgs_from bytes_from msgs_to bytes_to ------------ --------- ---------- --------- ---------- local 615 2412269 984 4367667 prog 0 0 100 83765 uucp 1 2147 0 0 kinet 0 0 0 0 tcp 1161 3306085 771 1766103 to987gateway 0 0 0 0 987gateway 0 0 0 0 ---------- ..end of daily mailstats --------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 00:42:48 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 01:37:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. WOW! Status: RO Craig Murray writes: > >This guy is finally waking up to what a piece of junk he is probably driving, >and that what is going round, os probably designed not to even test the >ability of the vehicle. You said it! I've been on this ride twice! The first time there were some "civilians" so it was kinda lame. The second time, it was just us roverheads and we had made friends with the driver from the first ride so he tried a bit harder. Still nothing crazy mind you - but yes nothing can anyway near to pushing the limits of a COIL SPRUNG TDI! YES! YES! YES! TDI! TDI! TDI! ahem...so sorry The side angle part of the track is heavily textured concrete and is maybe 25 degrees (always looks like more than it really is) but is really a thrill because there is SO MUCH grip and you're heeled over so much you just want to reach out and touch the ground! No where near the limit but still quite thrilling! I have an inclinometer in the rover ($7 from West Marine - a ball bearing slides in a circular tube to show you heeling angle) and 45 degrees looks really frightful! TDI! TDI! TDI! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 03:26:20 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Dieselphobia Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 09:21:48 UNDEFINED Status: RO In article Steven M Denis writes: When poisoning tailgaters (alternative nuclear alternative - obscure their vision with a blast of throttle, then JAM ON THE ANCHORS adn scrape the bits off your towing balll........), how much of the carbon will find its way onto your piston walls and exhaust. I normally drive listening to the engine so as to stay just below the point where the exhaust begins to smoke, so as to minimise teh long term deposits on the cylinders,, adn so as not to clog up my shiny everlasting stainless exhaust with crud. Am I being wise or paranoid? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 05:50:44 1994 Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. WOW! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 10:35:46 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <199406290537.BAA24942@zork.tiac.net> from "John Hong" at Jun 29, 94 01:37:19 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1137 Status: RO John Hong writes: > [...] > > I have an inclinometer in the rover ($7 from West Marine - a ball bearing > slides in a circular tube to show you heeling angle) and 45 degrees looks > really frightful! A friend of mine had one of those devices fiited to a Japanese 4x4 he owned (don't remember what it was), which he moved to the Range Rover he replaced it with. The afore mentioned device had a scale that went up to 40 degrees, unfortunately, the Range Rover was spotted happily sitting on a side slop, with petrol pooring out of the locked filler cap (do Lucas make these too?), with the level indicator right off the scale :-) Needless to say the device was disposed of very shortly afterwards. > TDI! TDI! TDI! > > > John Hong > (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 07:55:58 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 11:39:23 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Chassis numbering scheme Status: RO Hi, rover buffs. I was wondering what information is compiled into the Range Rover chassis and engine identification numbers. Does anyone on the list know how the numbers are put together. Regards Kjartan Bergsson kjartan@ejs.is From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 22:18:50 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 13:10:23 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Craig. I have all the pieces from a diesel I took apart. I don't wa}int > to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and > use it as a petrol? Dave VE4PN > > > > I believe so, I know you can use the crank and the fly wheel, and as the fly wheel is soo much heavier, it should give you some more torque. You will have to replace the head with a petrol one, and you will also need pistons, and a distributor, and manifolds thou. If you use the desiel crank, you will never break it. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 22:04:40 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:22:36 -0600 (CST) From: Damian Hogan Subject: subscribe lro-digest To: lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro-digest@chunnel.uk.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO subscribe lro-digest From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 28 22:31:48 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. WOW! To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 13:23:35 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > >They have a large collection of classic and not-so-classic > >vehicles, how-it-works displays, videos, etc. Oh, and a gift > >shop (of course). This museum has R01, the first pre-production Land Rover built, shame it was not restored correctly, one of the Darien Gap Range Rovers, the 1 millionth Land Rover, a pre-production discovery, and a few other historic vehicles. > > > >The vehicle I got to ride in was a brand new (400 miles on the > >odometer) Landrover Defender 110. 2.? liter turbodiesel/5 speed, > >10? passenger capacity, 110" wheelbase, 5 doors, skinny 7.5x16" > >tires, and manually locking diffs front and rear. Suspension > >was solid, live axles front and rear, with coil springs. No > >aftermarket stuff that I could tell. Seemed like all factory > >equipment. Pretty basic and utilitarian inside, but who needs all > >that fancy trim anyway? The driver said it cost about 20,000 pounds > >(~$30,000 US). Apparently this is about average for one of > >these types of vehicles. This is news to me, I did not know you could get diff locks on a Land Rover, to my knowledge, you cannot get them, only aftermarket places make, them. Don't you hate it when people confuse the centre diff lock with diff locks on axles. > > > >This is a big truck. It has a wheelbase several inches longer > >than a full size Bronco/Blazer, but is a little narrower. My > >Wrangler has almost a foot and a half less wheelbase, and > >I'm guessing at least 3-4 feet less overall length. > > > >Now for my impressions of the ride: > > > >WOW!! This Landrover was amazing. It easily motored over and > >around several obstacles that I'm sure would've left my Wrangler > >high and dry (or deep and wet) and in need of a winching. It had a > >deceptively large amount of ground clearance. We easily traversed > >several sections of very deep ruts without even scraping. > > > >It was also surprising agile for a vehicle this large. There > >were no _really_ tight spots, but it negotiated the few sharp > >corners pretty easily. > > > >The turbo diesel was very impressive. At one point, while going > >up a fairly steep incline (20-30 degrees? it always seems steeper > >than it really is) in 4-LO the driver took his foot completely > >off the accelerator and we _idled_ up the rest of the incline. > >Remember, this was a 3500-4000 pound vehicle with 8 passengers on > >board! My Wrangler with its twice-as-big gas engine would've > >stalled in a second if I tried that. The creeping ability of > >this drivetrain was really astounding. > > > >One section of the course is called the "suspension articulation > >demonstration section", or something like that. It consists of > >a series of staggered concrete "railroad ties", followed by > >a series of staggered concrete "donuts" set into the ground. > >The ground around all the concrete emplacements is eroded quite > >a bit. Hence, the concrete sticks up above the ground surface > >a couple (maybe more) feet. All the obstacles are offset from > >each other to varying degrees, so that the wheels on the > >vehicle are constantly moving through large up-and-down arcs. > > > >Again, the Landrover just motored over all this without even > >breathing hard. I was quite impressed with the amount of wheel > >travel, and suppleness of the suspension. Way better than my > >Wrangler. I've read several times that these coil-sprung > >Landrovers/Rangerovers have the best engineered off-road suspension > >available in the world. After this ride I'm inclined to agree. This guy is finally waking up to what a piece of junk he is probably driving, and that what is going round, os probably designed not to even test the ability of the vehicle. > > > >At one point the driver took us up on a side hill that had us > >leaning _way_ over. I was getting pretty gripped, and it wasn't > >even my vehicle! We got over so far that we started to slide > >_sideways_ down the hill! Don't know if this is some kind of > >optimization Rover does between center of gravity, track width, > >tires, suspension, etc., or if we were just lucky. Anyway, I > >was impressed (again) with the stability of the truck. This guy doesn't know that Land Rover quotes a side slope ability of 45 degrees, so 30 degrees is nothing, and the main reason that the vehicle is so stable on side slopes, is that the body weighs bugger all, and all, so all of the weight is in the chassie, providing an extreamly low centre of gravity. > > > >Undoubtedly, some of this Landrover's feats were made possible > >by the dual locking diffs. However, this vehicle still would > >have had an amazing amount of off-road capability even without > >them, I'm sure. Again, some-one should shock this guy and explain what the diff lock is used for in the defender. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 07:02:59 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 29 Jun 94 23:33:39 GMT To: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Land Rover Advice Content-Type: Text Status: RO Sean writes: >>> I am interested in purchasing a Land Rover and I need some advice on one that I have found locally. I really want to know how much I should spend and what I should expect out of these critters. I have never driven one, so I am kind of running on air, since I don't know anyone here with one. The vehicle I'm looking at is a 1964 Series IIA SW. It still has the stock 2.2 petrol engine, but with a Rochester carb, which I have never heard of. The wiring from the fusebox and engine compartment has been burned out by a fire when a fuel hose became disattached and caught from the manifold, but the thing was running before that. Most of the body is straight, but there is relatively bad rust on both frame and firewall. I'm not sure how complete this is, as the frame still appears rather solid, despite the rust. What I'd like to know is what you would expect to pay for a vehicle like this in your area. I am in the SE United States, so if you know American $ figures, it would be appreciated. As an aside, what speed do older Land Rovers comfortably travel on a highway? I've heard that they're slow, but exactly how slow? What does it cost to get a winch and a soft top for one? >> Sean, Carbs: If you're having carb problems and can't afford US prices, order a NEW ZENITH 36 IV (as fitted to series IIA and III). Call Dingocroft in England - 011 44494 448367 before 7:00 weekdays (to get the economy phone rates). The price is L65 (about $98). Shipping and duty should run between $25-$30. If you are running a Solex or Rochester without an adapter beneath, you'll need an adapter kit as well - L15. If these parts prices include VAT (Value Added Tax) then the parts cost will be 14% cheaper (they didn't specify in the ad). The original Zenith in good condition is smoother and better off road than the Rochester and peppier than the Weber (the Weber has a smaller venturi-throat). Harnesses: You'll probably drop dead when you price a harness from a US supplier. If you get that far use John Craddock or Merseyside in the UK. I don't have the numbers handy but can get them if you wish. Rust: Frame and firewall are usually repairable but do bring the price down. In the NYC suburbs a vehicle as you described should go for about $500-$1000, at least that seems to be the asking prices around here. You should be able to pick it up on the low end of that scale. Driveability: Slow. Noisy. Uncomfortable. Primitive. Absolutely the most fun vehicle you'll ever drive! I just love taking mine on trips of 800-1000 miles. Getting there is a good deal of the fun. You sit in the slow lane (yes, I do run overdrives) and watch the traffic pass (and a good portion are watching you). It's a friendly vehicle, as folks don't seem to think your rich or stuck up or try to race or cut you off. Brings smiles mostly. And lots of friendly questions. As for speed, I've been in Rovers doing 75, but I keep mine below 60. Above that is really pushing it and it REALLY sucks the gas. Repairs/Restoration: Time & patience. For the first year of your getting it on the road keep in mind that each item you fix will uncover another problem. Once you've got the bugs worked out they are really pretty trouble free. You'll need very few special tools (19/32 socket, open, and box ends, hub nut wrench) and it is very easy to work on. Execpt for rusted fasteners. Be prepared to replace every gearbox and axle seal on the vehicle (and if the hub races are scored, replace them as well. Winch: Dunno. Never wanted one (I'm sure someone else will provide some details for you). Soft top: About $600 from ABP with hoops. RN has run a similar special in th past but not right now. Tailgates are about $400 new and almost non-existent used. Good Luck and let us know how you made out. Bill Maloney IIA 88 and 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 07:09:36 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 29 Jun 94 23:48:48 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Steve Denis Makes LRW? Content-Type: Text Status: RO HMMM??? Was that Big Steve Denis I saw on page 106 of LRW with the shades, furry face (or was that diesel soot?), and doofy hat? Steve, you really should shave or wash more frequently (no Steve, you can't have my copy. Friendships only go just so far). Cathy Papas made it too and some other familiar faces that I can't connect names to. Also the rolling chassis that RN has been trying to sell for the last year and a half or so. There's no caption under the photo but it looks like last year's Owls Head meet. Project status: It's exhaust time (choke, choke). I'll finally get that exhaust system I bought 2 years ago from RN when I thought my system was going to fall off. At least it means I won't have to tackle the springs this weekend. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 09:50:07 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 10:34:34 +0100 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: Robertslab Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO unsubscribe lro-digest ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From thelist@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Wed Jun 29 08:36:53 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 23:32:24 +1000 Reply-To: thelist@gu.edu.au Sender: thelist@gu.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: ymukr01@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Heinz Werner Kramski) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sorry for testing - ignore! Status: RO Sorry for testing - ignore! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 08:45:46 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Dieselphobia To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 14:38:00 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at Jun 29, 94 9:21 am Status: RO > > In article Steven M Denis writes: > When poisoning tailgaters (alternative nuclear alternative - obscure their > vision with a blast of throttle, then JAM ON THE ANCHORS adn scrape the bits > off your towing balll........), how much of the carbon will find its way onto > your piston walls and exhaust. None on the walls,I wouldnt have thought,some on the crowns,and my exhausts never last long enough to worry about:-( > > I normally drive listening to the engine so as to stay just below the point > where the exhaust begins to smoke, so as to minimise teh long term deposits on > the cylinders,, adn so as not to clog up my shiny everlasting stainless > exhaust with crud. > > Am I being wise or paranoid? > Neither,or both.It makes a change to know *anyone* drives listening to the engine,rather than turning up the radio and ignoring the long suffering power unit.I'd be interested to know how long you have had your SS exhaust and your impressions of it so far.I've had varying reports on these,mostly bad,like they split,etc,so I've steered clear until now.But it would be nice to think I didnt have to grovel underneath for this particular horrible job *ever* again. > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 09:07:24 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 09:41:18 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: T-Shirts, other stuff Status: RO For all of those who wrote back asking for T-shirts (Roy, Lee, Vance and Steve), the next batch is in, but now we have more XL's than L's. And Russell, you asked for a long-sleve in large...well, you got it (sorry, no pocket, tho'). Ludo, your shirt went out last week, so let me know how swift the international mails are. If you tuned in late, we're talking about the club's first-quality, heavy-weight T-shirts: four-color logo on the pocket, detailed line art of a SIII, RHD full-tilt on the back along with clever slogans. $20 includes postage (in the US). Cheques to R.O.A.V., please. And don't forget, the Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally Columbus Day weekend in Buckingham Co., VA. Land Rover North America is advancing us a sizeable chunk of change (the first time they have ever done that for a club, I might add), so this won't be you ordinary Rover rally....Bluegrass band, BBQ, trials course, road tour, teeter-totter, blindfold obstacle course, silent auction (tons o' good stuff!), prizes and MORE. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 09:25:16 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 10:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: James B Russell Cc: Morgan Hannaford , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Oh yeah..the perkins is put in Land rovers with alarming regulartity.... people jump off bridges too.... The main draw of the perkins,at least in the UK,is that people put them in landies to keep from tripping over them ....to say they are cheap and plentiful is akin to saying Jeeps are junk....:-) steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 10:16:57 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 09:03:45 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover Names Status: RO This is nothing technical or hard just fun. I want to up-date my list of names owners have for their Rovers. You can send them to me by E-Mail to keep the list traffic down. When I get enough I will post a list to the net. You that have already passed on the names do so again, if you wish. Roy - Sharing time with Wicked Wanda, Coyote Sister and an, as yet, un-named 69 IIA,SWB. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 09:04:57 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 16:05:03 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. "Inclinometers"! Priority: normal Status: RO > > I have an inclinometer in the rover ($7 from West Marine - a ball bearing > > slides in a circular tube to show you heeling angle) and 45 degrees looks > > really frightful! > > A friend of mine had one of those devices fiited to a Japanese 4x4 he > owned (don't remember what it was), which he moved to the Range > Rover he replaced it with. The afore mentioned device had a scale > that went up to 40 degrees, unfortunately, the Range Rover was spotted > happily sitting on a side slop, with petrol pooring out of the locked > filler cap (do Lucas make these too?), with the level indicator right > off the scale :-) Needless to say the device was disposed of very > shortly afterwards. Hooboy! These inclinowhatzits are synonymous with Japanese "luxury" 4x4's. Totally useless gimmick IMO: when it's getting dark outside, the path's full of rocks and wash-gullies, and the incline's such that either all you can see is the sky over the edge of the bonnet or you're hanging in yr seat harness like a dive-bomber jockey, Oi reckon the last fing a sensible chap'd be eyeballing is this little gizmo!! Still, they're a revealing insight into the needs, wants and values of trendy "never been off the tar and never will" Nissan punters! (:D) Incidently, the "How far can a Landie lean?" question seems to admit to two answers. First, there's the static test -- as per the old Land Rover publicity shot -- Landie parked on a platform that's obviously been slowly jacked up on one side: driver hanging on like grim death and an inclinometer stuck on the windsreen showing some outrageous measurement. Second, more practical, is the dynamic test. Drive a Landie on the side of real world off-road incline parallel to the ridge. Statically a Landie might be able to stay on its wheels at around 45 degrees, dynamically the first small rock to lift an uphill wheel or wrong steering move will see a roll taking place perhaps well below this extreme. Take it easy on the slopes, chaps! Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 10:24:21 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Dieselphobia Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 16:16:10 UNDEFINED Status: RO >power unit.I'd be interested to know how long you have had your SS exhaust >and your impressions of it so far.I've had varying reports on these,mostly >bad,like they split,etc,so I've steered clear until now.But it would be >nice to think I didnt have to grovel underneath for this particular >horrible job *ever* again. Ive only hda mine for about 5 year, and it's so far, only the rear section (The original is still going strong on regular coatings of baked on Waxoyl. But since it shows every sign of lasting for ever, I am concerned about filling it full of carbon over the projected life of teh vehicle (governmentbastards excepted.....). Sure, I know you can treat itteh same way as a coked up 2stroke exhaust, but I'd rather not put the crap there in the first place. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 11:32:25 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 11:43:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9406291530.AA19843@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well Mike, the state of most everything in the USA seems to be based on the concept that "BIGGER IS BETTER"...(have you seen the show "Baywatch"?) soo the idea of a car that small and economical is a very "foreign" concept her...pun intended.. most of the small(ish) cars here *start* at 2.0 liters and go up from there..as an example,the Vauxhall Astra is sold here as a Pontiac Le Mans..It comes with a 2.0 FI. engine.....and is concidered a joke as it is underpowered! Your Ford Fiesta mk 1 was only avalible as a 1.6 l. and a choise of 1 or 2 choke carb... our base model pick up trucks (*REAL* trucks,not those"jap-o-sneeze" jobs) Have an 8 foot box, automatic transmission and minimum 4.1 l. engines! There are diesel engines of course, Ford uses a 7.4 liter cattipillar V-8, Gm uses 6.2 or 6.5 liter and Dodge has a Cummings unit of like 5.3 liters but it is turbo-intercooled and develops 440 ft/lbs of torque at like,1700 rpm.....now wouldn't *that* snap your half shafts!!!! Alll these engines are *WAY* too big to fit in a landie(Jed Silbersher has a silly look in his eyes re: his 101 and that dodge unit..)and any smaller vehicle units are rare and expensive... the only diesel cars sold her now that I can think of are the VW Jetta (may not still have diesel in the jetta III model) and some mercedes cars....gasoline is $1.20 or so a US gallon tho this can vary wildly...Diesel is about $1.35 gal...? current exchange rate of $1.55 per pound sterling would mean that you would pay *about* 1.10 sterling for an imperial gallon.....Why would you want a 2.25 109 when you could have a 225 hp ford 5.0 liter????? I traveled with a lad who had a ford 5.0 when i was driving a nissian powewred 88" (2.2)....same route,same speed....I got 26 mpg he got 20....hardly worth the diesel bother,no? so I must say that in this country,you have to be nuts to own a diesel..so....I'm nuts!!!! *I* like the sound and the water-proof-ness...could use some more speed tho.... *STILL*"rattling"on... steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 11:34:54 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:24:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Steve Denis Makes LRW? To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199406291200.IAA01427@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On 29 Jun 1994, maloney wrote: > HMMM??? > > Was that Big Steve Denis I saw on page 106 of LRW with the shades, furry face > (or was that diesel soot?), and doofy hat? Sorry Bill, not me...*I* was the one with the DOOFY *FACE* and the FURRY *HAT*!........ YES folks! THIS WAS BANTER!!!!!!!! steve..... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 11:34:21 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 11:27:48 -0500 From: "David K. Hudson" To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO A long while back someone mentioned that a BMW coolant sensor is used in a Range Rover. The sensor in my wife's '89 RR just died, and the RR part is about $60. Does anyone know the BMW part number? Thanks, Dave Hudson From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 12:00:19 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 12:46:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Howdy all- To: David John Place Cc: Craig Murray , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO ooops ! I guessed ya missed it...IF your diesel block has sleeves that make the bore smaller than the petrol pistons,it is a 2.0 liter diesel and the sleeves are surrounded by water! if you press them out.you have no cylinders!....also the wrist pins on the diesel(2.0 and 2.25) are larger than the petrol counterparts..(1.0 inch methinks)...so you will have to change the rods too..You *might* find pistons of the correct size,pin size,height, to fit,but your diesel pistons will work fine in a petrol(Bit heavy,but ok) the cam is also diff. ,but those converting to petrol on the 2.25 say that the diesel cam really "wakes up" the petrol..... have fun.. steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Tue, 28 Jun 1994, David John Place wrote: > Craig. I have all the pieces from a diesel I took apart. I don't wa}int > to go this way again, but can I just push out the sleeves in the block and > use it as a petrol? Dave VE4PN > > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 12:34:52 1994 Date: 29 Jun 94 13:25:50 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Subject: RE: Galvanized frame info Status: RO Thank you to all who sent me information on galvanized frames and frame corrosion control. Normally I try to thank you all individually but so many of you helped I've lost track. I will try using the oil coating method this winter. If it prevents rust I will stick with it. If not next summer I will try to arrange for a frame-over with a new galvanized frame. Thanks Again Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com KEITHSTEELE@delphi.com 72' Series III since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 13:15:12 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 13:07:54 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Frame Lore Status: RO Two things - Does anybody know of a mail order supplier for Waxoyl. I've never seen it down here in TX or NM. Also - to add to the discussion of frames - I understand that on a Lightweight the gearbox crossmember unbolts from the frame so that you can easily drop the tranny. Can this be done to a standard frame. It seems like it would be a major convenience to be able to drop the tranny straight out without resorting to pulling up the floor and such (though I do know that somebody out there posted a hint on how to get the tranny out without doing this.) Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 10:39:13 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: This Oil Burning Thing To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 16:30:27 BST Status: RO Actually,Steve,a Perkins cyl head makes a good doorstop,and you can grow flowers in the block....:-) But..there is at least one documented example of the Perkins Prima transplanted into a ninety with success.This is a two litre engine currently used in the Rover Montego.Better engine than the car around it. What puzzles me about this discussion is that there does not appear to be a small(sic) American diesel which could be used.Is this so? If so, why?Is it because petrol is so cheap in the states that there is no incentive to produce such a thing?Or is diesel fuel relatively expensive? The rest of the world seems to have embraced the cause of compression ignition with great enthusiasm(and,apparently,considerable success),and I cant for the life of me think its beyond the wit of Detroit or whoever to get stuck into the problem and crack it.Or is it simply customer resistance?If so,it *must* be something someone did and made a right balls-up of,because I cant see the American public being more stick-in the-mud than us lot.After all,the USA went into diesel marine,truck, and in particular railway engines with *great* vim and vigour,so why not cars?I dont understand.Can someone explain please? On the subject of Incliwhatsits,I agre with you Keith.I get apprehensive going up the kerb!Is the answer that you let it go over until the smell hits your nostrils and your sitting in it.....Then you've gone just a leeetle bit *too* far.. Mate of mine got a very nice '73 S111 88" through this.Bloke bought it and took his family on a run into the hills.Onto a side slope,had the kids screaming to get out,wife calling him all the names under the sun, and *he* was s--t scared,too.Got rid the very next week for less than he paid for it,a *lot* less,and what's more he did all the necessary welding free,and got it resprayed too.Some people have all the luck. Or perhaps its an ill wind. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 13:56:18 1994 From: ccray@lulu Subject: Re: Frame Lore To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 13:46:18 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199406291806.NAA28593@smtp.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at Jun 29, 94 01:07:54 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1547 Status: RO Greg Hiner was bold enough to point out... > >Two things - > >Does anybody know of a mail order supplier for Waxoyl. I've never seen it >down here in TX or NM. > my MG suppliers have it -- thats Victoria brittish in KCMO and Moss Motors in Galenta, CA. I can get 800 numbers for you if you need 'em >Also - to add to the discussion of frames - I understand that on a >Lightweight the gearbox crossmember unbolts from the frame so that you can >easily drop the tranny. Can this be done to a standard frame. It seems like >it would be a major convenience to be able to drop the tranny straight out >without resorting to pulling up the floor and such (though I do know that >somebody out there posted a hint on how to get the tranny out without doing >this.) I had a frame galvanized. I made the tx crossmember removable before. -- cut the tx crossmember thru about an inch from where it attaches to the frame with a die grinder. -- get 4 pieces of flat (say 3/16 x 6 x 6 ) with 4 holes in each (say 7/16 for 3/8 bolts). -- bolt two together and the other two together. Position those in place and weld the tx crossmember back in. -- If you remove the bolts, the tx crossmember slips off. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 01:18:41 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 23:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: Defender 90/Late model SIII Parts Wanted? Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: LRO@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: LRO@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"LRO@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I'm taking this RHD stuff pretty seriously here I'd also like to upgrade my interior of my SIII 88. So if anyone in the UK or there abouts could locate and price dash and interior parts for me I would be extremely excieted about it. :) Tell me what you know.. Benjamin Freeman LROVER@U.WASHINGTON.EDU '73-SIII 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 01:56:43 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 08:56:00 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Frame Lore Priority: normal Status: RO > Also - to add to the discussion of frames - I understand that on a > Lightweight the gearbox crossmember unbolts from the frame so that you can > easily drop the tranny. Can this be done to a standard frame. It seems like > it would be a major convenience to be able to drop the tranny straight out > without resorting to pulling up the floor and such (though I do know that > somebody out there posted a hint on how to get the tranny out without doing > this.) Out here in South Africa cutting off the gearbox cross member and then making up a set of suitable flanges to allow it to be bolted to the frame is a VERY popular modification aimed at taking the ouch out of dropping the tranny. Properly done, it incurs no unhappy side- effects -- frame distortion, etc. FWIW, pulling the Landie Series 2A gearbox tip without all this hassle.... 1. Remove front seats, drive shafts, clutch op mech -- esp the jolly trans brake assy! etc. 2. Unbolt tranny from rear of engine. 3. Take a sheet of *heavy* plywood and cut it to fit snugly between the gearbox crossmember and that immediately under the back of the engine -- ideally will be a tight drive fit. Support the center of this sheet with a suitable stand. The wood sheet should be absolutely flush with the tops of the 2 crossmembers. Doesn't have to be terribly wide -- about a foot across or so. 4. Unbolt yr gearbox at the two mountings at the back, remove 'em and lower gently down -- use a good bottle\trolley jack to raise the back of the gearbox. Back of the engine (flywheel case) will rest on the front crossmember and the gearbox will lie on your sheet of wood. 5. DRAIN THE OIL out of the tranny! 6. Carefully work the tranny off the back of the engine. You'll reach a point where the tranny pops off and can now be carefully slid to the rear. The wood sheet acts like a tray by preventing it from dropping down at the front. To remove completely, push the tranny slowly backwards -- the point will come when the rear end starts to pitch down past the gearbox crossmember. Once its touching the ground at the back, hop round, get underneath and a bit of pulling and wiggling will have it out and on the ground. (I'm assuming the Landie is standing on its wheels.) To merely replace a clutchplate -- moving the tranny back on yr wooden tray about 8-12" will do. 7. Reinstallation. Get underneath and lift the bellhousing up until its resting on the gearbox x-member. Gently lift the back of the gearbox up whilst pushing. With luck, the bellhousing will easily start to glide forwards over the wooden sheet. A minute later and the tranny will be up nuzzling close to the back of the engine. Wiggle a bit to line up with the engine and voila! -- engine and tranny married up. Spin on the bellhousing nuts and bolts. Raise the back of the gearbox -- bottle jack -- insert and bolt down the gearbox mountings. Knock out the piece of plywood (stash for some other time!). Refit all the ancilleries. Done. Doing a gearbox-out job this way is a pretty easy one-man venture: an extra pair of hands is a delightful luxury it available tho!! -- basically having a piece of gearbox support between the 2 x- members makes all the difference. Good luck! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 03:02:07 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 08:57:40 UNDEFINED Status: RO >What puzzles me about this discussion is that there does not appear to >be a small(sic) American diesel which could be used.Is this so? If so, >why?Is it because petrol is so cheap in the states that there is no >incentive to produce such a thing?Or is diesel fuel relatively expensive? In my experience, of my visits, teh fuel is so much cheaper than eUROPE, AND THE INCOMES FOR A PARTICULAR JOB ABOUT TWICE AS GREAT IN REAL TERMS AS FOR THE EQUIVALENT bRIT, THAT FULE COSTS AR(bugger this terminal!!!)e simply not a consideration for private motorists. I could run a Toyota 1 tonne pickup in the States for the same as it cost me to run a CG125 motorbike in teh UK!!! So who cares about getting more mpg from a deisel? These guys are completely happy with 15mpg from a car that would bankrupt us! Fuel costs are so trivial as not to be a concern. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 03:09:30 1994 To: lro From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: RE: Galvanized frame info Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 09:04:18 UNDEFINED Status: RO >I will try using the oil coating method this winter. If it >prevents rust I will stick with it. If not next summer I will try >to arrange for a frame-over with a new galvanized frame. Dont DONT _DONT_ use old engine oil - yes I have seen folk do this. Lots of folk!!!!!!!!!!! Old gearox oil is fine. Waxoyl is better. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 03:10:51 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Frame Lore Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 09:06:04 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Does anybody know of a mail order supplier for Waxoyl. I've never seen it >down here in TX or NM. Ask on rec.motorcycles. This was discussed a few months ago, adn folk had addresses for suppliers in the Third World^J^JUnited States. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 06:53:20 1994 Subject: Re: Chassis numbering scheme To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 12:11:29 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <199406291139.LAA10525@soho.ejs.is> from "Kjartan" at Jun 29, 94 11:39:23 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3977 Status: RO Kjartan writes: > > Hi, rover buffs. I was wondering what information is compiled into > the Range Rover chassis and engine identification numbers. > Does anyone on the list know how the numbers are put together. > Regards > Kjartan Bergsson > kjartan@ejs.is Hi, I had hoped someone else would have pxicked this one up, but not so far, so here goes. Up to October 79 the VIN number prefix's looked like this: 355 Manual, home RH stg, 2 door, pre Oct 1979, petrol 356 Manual, export RH stg, pre Oct 79 model, petrol 358 Manual, export LH stg detoxed, 2 door, pre Oct 79, petrol Between October 79 and the introduction of the 1985 model year it looked something like this: LHABV1AA Manual, RH stg, 2 door, post Oct 79, petrol LHABV2AA Presumably, LH stg, 2 door, post Oct 79, petrol - but not confirmed, and presumably LHAMV2AA also exisits LHAMV1AA Manual, RH stg, 4 door, post Oct 79 model, petrol BSALLHABV1AA In Vogue ??? SALLHABV2AA ? SALLHABV8AA ? SALLHAMV1AA Manual, 4 door, RH stg, post Oct 79 model, petrol SALLHAMV2AA Manual, LH stg, 4 door, post 1979 model, petrol SBALLHARV1AA Manual, RH stg, 4 door Monteverdi, post Oct 79, petrol There is a LH stg Monteverdi number also - probably 2AA SALLHAMV3AA Automatic, RH stg, 4 door, 1984 model, petrol SALLHAMV7AA Manual, RH stg, 4 door, 1984 model, petrol >From 1985 model year onwards, all prefix's appear to be of the form: SALLHAxxxyAnnnnnn The nnnnnn component is easy, this is just a unique number and appears to run from 0000001 right up to whatever the latest vehicle was to start making its way down the line. The y component indicates the model year of production, sounds simple doesn't it - not quite. It is a single letter, matching the UK registration/index number year of registration prefix (used to be a suffix - until they ran out of letters) - still with me? Now to confuse matters further, UK vehicle registration years run August 1 to July 31 - Land Rover production years don't. For example, the current registration prefix is L which indicates a 94 model year vehicle, unfortunately, current build Range Rovers are 95 model year and have been since about March, hense have vin number prefix of SALLHAMxxxMA even though the M prefix doesn't come into effect until August. Now for the difficult one, the xxx component - this is the one that identifies the build, there are lots of them, the ones I have come across follow: BV7 Manual, RH stg, 2 door, petrol BM3 Automatic (PI), RH stg, 2 door CSK, petrol MV3 Automatic, RH stg, 4 door, petrol MV4 Automatic, LH stg, 4 door, petrol MV7 Manual, RH stg, 4 door, petrol ML3 Automatic (PI), home RH stg, 4 door, petrol ML7 Manual (PI), RH stg, 4 door, petrol ME7 2.4 Manual, RH stg, 4 door, diesel MN7 2.5 manual, RH stg, 4 door, diesel MF7 Manual, RH stg, 4 door, Tdi diesel MF3 Automatic, RH stg, 4 door, Tdi diesel For a definative list you need to refer to the Parts Catalogue for the era of vehicle you are interested in. Same goes for the engine numbers, though they appear to have been consistently identifed by the first three characters in the number. I hope this goes part way to answering your questions Regards Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 07:29:37 1994 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 08:15:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Side Slopes To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9406292350.AA11277@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The only thing I'll add to Craig's note is that when I rolled the 109, it was not the slope itself that did it,it was the 1000 lbs of gear in the back that slid on the floor,hitting the rt. wheel box that sent me over.. I would say it was over maybe 40+ degrees....not a sctatch on me....the loose stuff was on the rear floor and I had on my seat belt....I now secure the load and *NEVER* mix passengers and cargo...getting hit with a rover front axle could kill.....you should see the dent in the wheel box...... :-( steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 18:58:40 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Side Slopes To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 9:50:05 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hello all, With all this talk about side slopes, thought I would clear this up. The safe operating angle for a series 1 was quoted by the factory to be 30 degrees, but the vehicle would not tip over until 45 degrees. Now since all other Land Rovers have a heavier chassie, and a wider track than the series 1, therefore their tip over angle is greater. So generally don't worry till the vehicle is on about 45 degrees, unless speed, or slipping side ways is involved. I have only seen two Landies roll, once when I was in my dad's mates series IIA when I was about 13, and I can remember thinking, that if I stuck my arm out the window, I could touch the ground!, and that was before it started to roll, and the other one was when my sister decided to hit the brakes going down a rather long, slippery hill, the car went side ways and slide right down the hill, and at the bottom, the wheels dug into the mud, and the momentum sent the vehicle over onto its side. So you only need to worry, when it gets to around 40 degrees. And if side slopes scare you, just say to your self '45'. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 17:18:31 1994 Resent-Date: 29 Jun 94 17:44 EDT From: Kok Resent-Message-Id: <9406292144.AA15755@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: 29 Jun 94 17:44 EDT Resent-From: kok@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Kok) Subject: Defender 110 testdrive To: lro@team.net Status: RO I found this on the off road mailing list, only been following off-road stuff for a couple months but these are real impressive. Happy reading ! Bill Kok kok@oasys.dt.navy.mil *** Beginning of Forwarded Message *** Return-Path: Received: from gatech.edu by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA00289; Tue, 28 Jun 94 00:14:06 EDT Received: from ai.gtri.gatech.edu by gatech.edu with SMTP id AA27833 (5.65c/Gatech-10.0-IDA for ); Tue, 28 Jun 1994 00:04:04 -0400 Received: by ai.gtri.gatech.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09679; Mon, 27 Jun 94 23:58:04 EDT Message-Id: <9406280358.AA09679@ai.gtri.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 23:58:01 EDT From: Stefan Roth (The Administrator) Reply-To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu X-Ignore: Offroad Subject: Offroad Digest V3 #482 To: offroad-dlist@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Offroad Digest Mon, 27 Jun 94 Volume 3 : Issue 482 Today's Topics: A Landrover ride. WOW! (2 msgs) Axle Trusses (8 msgs) Holister & Clearcreek (6 msgs) Jeepster Man in NJ? / Bilmore Lake trail more images more images (passwd) (2 msgs) Red Rock Canyon Toyota Questions... (2 msgs) TTB - was Re: Axle Trusses (2 msgs) wanted for '94 Pathfinder: Brush/Nerf bars sold in Toronto Winches - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Stefan Roth - Administrator of offroad mailing list (RFC 934) To post to list: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Administrative matters (sign up, unsubscribe, mail problems, etc): offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Offroad server for FAQ, back issues, bibliography, etc. Put the word "help" on a line by itself in the body of a message and mail it to: offroad-server@ai.gtri.gatech.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 15:24:27 MDT From: Darrin Sharp Subject: A Landrover ride. WOW! To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu I just got back from a trip to the UK. While there, I had a fun little sidetrip that I thought might be interesting to some of my fellow off-roaders. Just outside London is a place called the "Heritage Auto Museum". They have a large collection of classic and not-so-classic vehicles, how-it-works displays, videos, etc. Oh, and a gift shop (of course). The most interesting part for me was their "Landrover Demonstration Circuit". This is a short (3/4 mi?) obstacle course constructed of all kinds of "hazards". The course winds around quite a bit within an area of maybe 2-3 acres. It takes about 10-12 minutes to traverse the entire course. The "hazards" consist of all kinds of good stuff: water crossings of 20-30 yards long and a couple of feet deep; 30 degree side hills; _deep_ rutted double track; steep up and down hills; a "suspension articulation" section (more on this later); and lots of mud (this is England, remember). It costs $6-8 US to get into the museum, then another couple $'s US to go on the Landrover ride. The Landrover ride is a few hundred yards away from the actual museum itself (but they're connected by a shuttle train - pulled by a Landrover, naturally). Buying a ticket to the Landrover ride entitles you to ride along for once around the circuit. Unfortunately, paying extra for the privilege of driving is not an option :^( The vehicle I got to ride in was a brand new (400 miles on the odometer) Landrover Defender 110. 2.? liter turbodiesel/5 speed, 10? passenger capacity, 110" wheelbase, 5 doors, skinny 7.5x16" tires, and manually locking diffs front and rear. Suspension was solid, live axles front and rear, with coil springs. No aftermarket stuff that I could tell. Seemed like all factory equipment. Pretty basic and utilitarian inside, but who needs all that fancy trim anyway? The driver said it cost about 20,000 pounds (~$30,000 US). Apparently this is about average for one of these types of vehicles. This is a big truck. It has a wheelbase several inches longer than a full size Bronco/Blazer, but is a little narrower. My Wrangler has almost a foot and a half less wheelbase, and I'm guessing at least 3-4 feet less overall length. Now for my impressions of the ride: WOW!! This Landrover was amazing. It easily motored over and around several obstacles that I'm sure would've left my Wrangler high and dry (or deep and wet) and in need of a winching. It had a deceptively large amount of ground clearance. We easily traversed several sections of very deep ruts without even scraping. It was also surprising agile for a vehicle this large. There were no _really_ tight spots, but it negotiated the few sharp corners pretty easily. The turbo diesel was very impressive. At one point, while going up a fairly steep incline (20-30 degrees? it always seems steeper than it really is) in 4-LO the driver took his foot completely off the accelerator and we _idled_ up the rest of the incline. Remember, this was a 3500-4000 pound vehicle with 8 passengers on board! My Wrangler with its twice-as-big gas engine would've stalled in a second if I tried that. The creeping ability of this drivetrain was really astounding. One section of the course is called the "suspension articulation demonstration section", or something like that. It consists of a series of staggered concrete "railroad ties", followed by a series of staggered concrete "donuts" set into the ground. The ground around all the concrete emplacements is eroded quite a bit. Hence, the concrete sticks up above the ground surface a couple (maybe more) feet. All the obstacles are offset from each other to varying degrees, so that the wheels on the vehicle are constantly moving through large up-and-down arcs. Again, the Landrover just motored over all this without even breathing hard. I was quite impressed with the amount of wheel travel, and suppleness of the suspension. Way better than my Wrangler. I've read several times that these coil-sprung Landrovers/Rangerovers have the best engineered off-road suspension available in the world. After this ride I'm inclined to agree. At one point the driver took us up on a side hill that had us leaning _way_ over. I was getting pretty gripped, and it wasn't even my vehicle! We got over so far that we started to slide _sideways_ down the hill! Don't know if this is some kind of optimization Rover does between center of gravity, track width, tires, suspension, etc., or if we were just lucky. Anyway, I was impressed (again) with the stability of the truck. Undoubtedly, some of this Landrover's feats were made possible by the dual locking diffs. However, this vehicle still would have had an amazing amount of off-road capability even without them, I'm sure. If Rover had a decent dealer network in the US, and they sold these things for reasonable prices over here, I'd buy one in a second. Unfortunately, I'm afraid parts availability would be pretty dismal in most places in the US, and they're out of my price range anyway (a Defender like I rode in is about $40,000 US here, and a Discovery is about $28,000 US). And, no diesel engines on this side of the pond. Guess I'll have to stick to the American and Japanese offerings for a while. Sure, you could probably build up a CJ/Wrangler/4Runner/Pathfinder/ Blazer/etc. to match or better this Landrover's off-road performance. But, it'd take thousands of dollars and a lot of time. The Landrover was able to do this all in stock form, with factory enginered parts. Pretty incredible, if you ask me. Except for maybe the new coil-sprung Toyota Landcruisers, I'll bet this is the most offroad capable stock vehicle you can buy today. Plus, a Landrover Defender just looks _so_ cool! If you'd like more info on the museum (like directions), feel free to e-mail me. The museum was OK, but the Landrover ride was lots more fun, I thought. -Darrin Sharp (sharp@fc.hp.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 08:19:41 +1000 From: stockman@csis.dit.csiro.au (Roy Stockman) Subject: A Landrover ride. WOW! To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu A diesel and coil sprung solid axle seems to best combination for off road driving. Putting a good aftermarket coil suspension really makes wheel travel on these types setups breath taking as the name of the game is the keep the wheels on the ground for traction. Roy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Jun 94 07:46:00 +0600 From: Steven.G.Spearman@att.com Subject: Axle trusses To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Have those who added these found any problems with clearance? I always thought it looked like you lost a lot of rock clearance on the sides of the pumpkin with those so I've avoided them. - -Steve Spearman spear@longs.att.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:49:54 PDT From: chrisw@cabo.is.brooktree.com (chris wilson) Subject: Axle Trusses To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > So, for light to medium duty trail work, you feel that a truss wouldn't > be needed for my '93 Ranger, is that right? > > Shel Belinkoff > belinkof@netcom.com I bent the rear axle housing on my '93 Ranger (8.8") by getting some air under it with 1000lbs of camping gear in back. Unless you do somthing as stupid as that, you should be fine. Ford replaced it under warrantee and I had a custom truss welded on by one of the local offroad racing shops in San Diego. Regarding all this TTB discussion, this is an OFFROAD list and the TTB works great OFFROAD. Just my dos pesos. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 11:57:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Axle Trusses To: chris wilson On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, chris wilson wrote: > > I bent the rear axle housing on my '93 Ranger (8.8") by getting some air > under it with 1000lbs of camping gear in back. Unless you do somthing > as stupid as that, you should be fine. Ford replaced it under warrantee > and I had a custom truss welded on by one of the local offroad racing shops > in San Diego. > > Regarding all this TTB discussion, this is an OFFROAD list and the TTB > works great OFFROAD. Just my dos pesos. > How do you like your Ranger? How's it set up? I've a '93 SuperCab with the 4.0-liter engine, manual trans and hubs, limited slip, and 31's. It's comfortable, reliable, and thus far, just great for the kind of wheelin' I do. With regard to the TTB - Hey, that's one reason I bought the Ford. Now that I think I've found someone with some expertise in setting up the TTB, I suspect most of my on-road complaints, which are minor and of little consequence, will disappear as well. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 13:43:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Axle Trusses To: Dimitry Struve On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, Dimitry Struve wrote: > > Shel - > > Did you end up going to Custom, or to the place in > Pleasanton someone else recommended I haven't done anything yet. Right now I'm pretty busy, and I won't be able to get the alignment taken care of until after the 4th of July. It'll be an all-day affair at either place, especially considering the distance. > BTW I think TTB does work great offroad, and . . . > it could have been implemented better for service and > durability. I'm on my 2nd TTB setup, and have had no problems with either. I understand how some people may feel it's a less than ideal setup, what with conventional thinking being that a solid axle or "traditional" IRS is the way to go. But it's interesting to note that some of the 4x4 mags have recently commented how well the TTB setup works, especially in slow, deliberate trail work. That's been my experience as well. > Also, do you have factory rims on your truck or aftermarket? I > might be interested in a set of factory 15x6 takeoffs if you > still have them ... Can't help you there - my truck came with 15x7 alloys as standard equipment, and that's what I'm running now. In fact, I got a factory take-off for my spare. Have you tried Acker Wheel in San Jose? That's where I got my spare wheel - but a set of standard rims should be easy to come by, no? ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 14:31:40 PDT From: brycerw@sanjuan.uvic.ca (Robert Bryce) Subject: Axle Trusses To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu With all this talk, I'm now considering this as well, only for my Jeep Comanche, since my offroading is getting more and more serious, and going to somewhere between a 31 and 33-inch tire size (inclusive). Questions: 1.) what's the going price range for axle trusses, custom and otherwise? 2.) I see no reason why you couldn't make these yourself if you've got (access to) a welder, basic shop tools - which I do. What are the basic parts, how complicated does it look, what's involved? Could save lotsa $$$. 3.) Do they always go "underneath" the axle? Or can they go above the pumpkin? (Thinking of clearance here). 4.) Do these actually "stress" the axle a bit when properly installed, or simply re-enforce what is already there? 5.) Anything else I should know if I decide to make it myself. :-) Thanx. - --Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:16:10 -1000 From: "Mike Jaquet, SM2, Auburn, CA" Subject: Axle Trusses To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu >> 3.) Do they always go "underneath" the axle? Or can >> they go above the pumpkin? (Thinking of clearance >> here). >> 4.) Do these actually "stress" the axle a bit when properly >> installed, or simply re-enforce what is already there? >>--Rob 3. all the ones I've seen were under the bump. they also provide some additional anti-walk-home protection incase you come down with the pumpkin on top of a rock, like when the rock one tire is on decides to roll from under your tire and thump, there you are high-centered on the pumpkin instead of the potential truss. A welded truss is easier to fix a ding in than is a cast pumpkin with a crack which leaks gear lube. I've also seen some trusses with a mini-skid plate attached to help protect the nose of the pumpkin. Don't you like all these high-tech terms like "pumpkin nose"? 4. i think when properly designed, they do both. 5. if you make your own, you could also add some theft deterrent,like adding a call-home number, or the vehicles lisc plate number incase the local p.d. happen to see the thieves without a plate on the rig, or if they switched plates to vacate the area. mike_j2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 14:20:11 -0700 From: danapple@vicor.com Subject: Axle Trusses To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > Sheldon Belinkoff writes: > In fact, I got a factory take-off for my spare. Also try the dealerships. At least the local Toy dealer keeps wheels around from vehicles that people upgrade (to factory allows or aftermarket) at the dealership. I bought the factory "fancy" steels wheels for my 4Runner for $25/each, in almost new condition. I bought two for spares. > | Shel Belinkoff | Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 15:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Axle Trusses To: danapple@vicor.com On Mon, 27 Jun 1994 danapple@vicor.com wrote: > > Also try the dealerships. At least the local Toy dealer keeps wheels I tried, but none of the local dealers had any. I suspect that I'd have had better luck if I were looking for steel wheels rather than the "fancy" alloys. Maybe I payed a little more than I had to, maybe not. I called all the Bay Area Ford dealerships and about 6 or 8 salvage yards. Nothing - so Acker was my next best choice. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:17:33 PDT From: dave demartini Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu (Off-Road Forum) HOLISTER HILLS I still am not sure which road runs from Holister to the coast (I must have missed that message too..) so if someone who has the info could re-post, that would be great.. CLEARCREEK How was clear-creek? Have not been there in years... Where you able to make it to the top of the mountain where the repeaters are? Last time I was there was on January 1st, during a snow storm. The snow came half-way up the grill on my 3" lifted Ramcharger.. we got within 100 yards of the top (we did not know it at the time, since it was covered in clouds..). I understand the view is awsome. How are the trails? I'm thinking of taking a trip back there with the new (old) truck. I'd be interested in comments.. Dave DeMartini dd6582@nado.hp.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 12:09:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: dave demartini On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, dave demartini wrote: > HOLISTER HILLS > I still am not sure which road runs from Holister to the coast (I must have missed that message too..) so if someone who has the info could re-post, that would be great.. > Dave - the road is south of HHSRVA, and is located about 4 or 5 miles or so north of Pinnacles Ntl Monument on Highway 25. It's a small road, and looks like it just goes onto someone's property, but there's a sign there, which is easy to miss, that says it's the road to Gonzales. It's not difficult at all, in fact, unless the road's muddy, you probably don't need 4WD, but it's sure a pretty drive, especially in the spring, when everything is green and the water's running. Late in the day, when the light's right, it's just so pleasant . . . ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 13:10:32 +0800 From: Dimitry.Struve@Eng.Sun.COM (Dimitry Struve) Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu I believe the road from CA 25 to Gonzales is called Deo Gloria Road. Unless it's muddy you should be able to do it in a Cadillac. And there is a gate at the Highway 25 end, which I believe is closed (locked) in winter. With a few exceptions, San Benito County is the only place in the greater Bay Area with legal unpaved roads. If you are a AAA member pick up the Monterey and San Benito County map. Most of the thinnest lines represent unpaved roads. In winter the mud can be quite a challenge, though I don't know if that is Treading Lightly :) - -Dimitry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 14:17:06 -0700 From: danapple@vicor.com Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > Dimitry.Struve@eng.sun.com (Dimitry Struve) writes: > In winter the mud can be quite a > challenge, though I don't know if that is Treading Lightly :) Most of the guidelines I've read say that spinning tires in mud is acceptable, as it is in snow. A mud bog is quite a different environment than a stream bed. If course, I don't think this means 'spinning wildly till your vehicle is submerged' but that a bit of spinning is acceptable, since you're not really damaging anything. On dirt, if you spin your wheels, you're actually damaging something. > -Dimitry Dan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: danapple@vicor.com On Mon, 27 Jun 1994 danapple@vicor.com wrote: > > > Dimitry.Struve@eng.sun.com (Dimitry Struve) writes: > > > In winter the mud can be quite a > > challenge, though I don't know if that is Treading Lightly :) > > Most of the guidelines I've read say that spinning tires in mud is > acceptable, as it is in snow. A mud bog is quite a different Dan - we were not talking about a mud bog, we were discussing a dirt road that runs through a couple of ranches. To spiyour tires on such a road could cause deep rutting, run-off, and erosion. And, since the road is used by the property owners, it might be poor etiquete to mess it up. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:28:20 +0800 From: Dimitry.Struve@Eng.Sun.COM (Dimitry Struve) Subject: Holister & Clearcreek To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > > In winter the mud can be quite a > > challenge, though I don't know if that is Treading Lightly :) > I was originally joking - building a road in the first place isn't exactly Treading Lightly, but in fact I am actually unsure on this: since it doesn't really rain that much around here mud is rare experience. Most of the legal dirt roads around here don't need 4 wd (or even high clearance) in summer, especially if they get bladed by the county or BLM or Forest Service. But in winter they get hugely rutted by runoff and wheel tracks. Without these conditions, they wouldn't be much fun. On the other hand, as Shel points out, the rutting causes runoff and is probably a big hassle for the few ranchers or others who aren't there for fun. Still, it IS a road, and as such isn't exactly like mud-bogging in an alpine meadow. My feeling has always been that as long as the road is open, it's fair game for travel, but wheelspin and such should be minimzed as a goal of low-impact use (as well as a mark of skill). I generally don't go off road or off trail even if legal, unless I'm in a gravel pit or some area set aside for play - -Dimitry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 07:57:51 -0600 From: cschamau@massive.Mines.Colorado.EDU Subject: Jeepster Man in NJ? / Bilmore Lake trail To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu. Howdy! We have a rather beat-up 70 Jeepster Commando. Ran into someone on the trail this weekend with a sharp 67 Commando Roadster. They mentioned getting parts from "The Jeepster Man" in New Jersey. Do any of you guys from Jersey (or that area) know who this is? I'd like a way to contact them and see what kind of part selection they have. Does anyone belonging to Mile-Hi Jeep Club know the couple mentioned above? (If so, I'd appreciate more info from/about them - i.e. a way to contact them. They were an older couple. Their Jeepster was burgundy with a white top, Warn winch - really sharp. Hope this helps.) We had an uneventful trip up towards Bilmore Lake (out of Empire), so I have not 'road report' other than that you can't get to the lake any more! The jeep clubs had been maintaining this road (saw a D9 up there a couple years ago) but the Forest Service blocked it off with a bunch of huge boulders a mile or 2 short of the lake for some reason. (You could probably still bike or hike in, but no 4x4s or ATVs would be able to get past the block.) Connie Schamaun 70 Jeepster Commando Colorado School of Mines cschamau@mines.colorado.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 09:18:07 -0500 (EDT) From: leonard@speedy.cc.uky.edu (Leonard Lauria) Subject: more images To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu According to Rick Colombo: > >Here's a sample ftp, plus I see Peter has a directory with Viewers in it: > >BRONCO_$ ftp >bronco.fnal.gov MultiNet FTP user process 3.3(109) >FTP>open didnt.doit.wisc.edu >Connection opened (Assuming 8-bit connections) >DIDNT.DOIT.WISC.EDU>user offroad >Password: (the password is Wheeler) >< names and use wildcards if spaces keep you locked out! hmmmmm i had been on here before, but i tried this morning (after seeing that there were some new pics) and could not get on with offroad/wheeler. does it work for you today? thanks! leonard - -- Leonard Lauria Leonard@speedy.cc.uky.edu, Leonard@ukcc.uky.edu Sr. Systems Prog. University of Kentucky Computing Center, Lexington, Ky. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 07:30:14 -0600 From: cschamau@massive.Mines.Colorado.EDU Subject: more images (passwd) To: leonard@speedy.cc.uky.edu, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu. My notes say the password is "wheeling" NOT "wheeler". I haven't tried it in the last week or so, but it worked prior to that. Connie Schamaun 70 Jeepster Commando Colorado School of Mines cschamau@mines.colorado.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:51:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Rick Colombo Subject: more images (passwd) To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu >My notes say the password is "wheeling" NOT "wheeler". I >haven't tried it in the last week or so, but it worked prior >to that. Sorry about the password. Also, if my example was clear/correct, you must set your type to binary (type binary) before you get a gif/jpg file. _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Rick Colombo colombo@bronco.fnal.gov _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/ _/ 1980 Bronco + 1976 CJ-7 + dune buggy _/ _/ _/ _/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 08:18:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: Red Rock Canyon To: Al Kiecker On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, Al Kiecker wrote: > I used to live in the California desert, China Lake Naval Weapons Center > to be specific. Northeast of Lancaster (I forget the highway, 14 maybe ???) > was an area called Red Rock Canyon. If we are talking about the same thing, > thats quite a long way from Las Vegas. Thanks for the suggestion though. > No, it's not the same place. There is a Red Rock Canyon by Las Vegas. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:26 EDT From: Mark_Goodale@vos.stratus.com Subject: Toyota Questions... To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > I have heard more then once about cranking up the torsion bars, > is this good for the suspension? Any downsides?> > Thanks > - - Jim O. Jim I have a 89 4Runner with 33's on it. Originally I had a 2 inch bodi-lift with the torsion bars cranked and add-a-leafs. Last week I replaced the 2 inch bodi-lift with a 3 inch lift, and FINALLY cranked down the torsion bars and removed those horrible add-aleafs...... I highly recommend you do not crank trhe torsion bars. The truck will ride horribly (at least mine did). My $.02 worth, Mark (Digest mode) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 8:50:52 +1000 From: Erik Lecis Subject: Toyota Questions... To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > > >2. 1992 v-6 extra cab bought new in Sept 1992. Had an antenna rattle > >(warranty) & the rubber steering stops keep coming off, causing a squeak at > >full lock. > > > > Have you actually solved the squeaks at full lock? I have a 93 > v6 X-Cab and have the same 'problem'. I've talked to the dealer > and to other Toyota owners and this seems common. In looking > at the front suspension, it looks as if there's no way around it. > Its just designed that way and any material used will fall off, > or apart. The bump stops on my '93 look more like hard plastic > then rubber. > Yep. On my 90 Diesel, they're made from hard plastic, and the squeaks started about 6 months after I bought it. The dealer "fixed" the problem by applying grease to the steering stops and I now do likewise. - - Erik. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 14:14:01 PDT From: brycerw@sanjuan.uvic.ca (Robert Bryce) Subject: TTB - was Re: Axle Trusses To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu > But it's interesting to note that some of the 4x4 mags > have recently commented how well the TTB setup works, especially in slow, > deliberate trail work. That's been my experience as well. Interesting... That's not the impression I got. I remember (still have) reviews comparing Ford's TTB with Chevy's old solid axle setup (pre-'88), and all the 3 major offroad magazines talked like the TTB setup was simply the best - none better, ever. Praise galore. But now with Chevy's independent front-end, and Dodge's redesigned solid axle front-end, the magazines started mentioning things about things like alignment difficulties, and wierd bump-steer characteristics, wierd tire wear from Ford's TTB. So it wasn't quite ideal after all. We had a F250-HD 4X4. TTB, with leafs. Good-looking truck. Had no problems with the front end at all - no complaints. Figure the system has been around long enough it can't be that bad at all. Too bad the whole truck was a lemon. But boy, would that thing ever go through snow! Wow! I also have a 4X4 mag when the Jeep Cherokee (downsized) was first introduced. They couldn't get over the ride quality - to the point they said they had to actually check underneath expecting independent suspension, and instead found a solid axle. On the other hand, Toyota's independent front-end is reported to be quite stiff, rough. I came to 2 conclusions from this: 1.) lots of the talk in the magazines is just that - talk. I only look at what I consider to be facts - specs, times, stats, dyno tests (though can't they be fudged too?) etc., and ignore the opinions on ride, interior etc - I'll make my own decision. 2.) Whether solid axle, independent, TTB, or XYZ, any and every manufacturer is capable of producing (and giving us) the ride they want to - whether rough, smooth, mushy, or whatever. - --Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 14:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: TTB - was Re: Axle Trusses To: Robert Bryce On Mon, 27 Jun 1994, Robert Bryce wrote: > > But it's interesting to note that some of the 4x4 mags > > have recently commented how well the TTB setup works, especially in slow, > > deliberate trail work. That's been my experience as well. > > Interesting... That's not the impression I got. I remember (still have) > reviews comparing Ford's TTB with Chevy's old solid axle setup (pre-'88), > and all the 3 major offroad magazines talked like the TTB setup was simply > the best - none better, ever. Praise galore. But now with Chevy's > independent front-end, and Dodge's redesigned solid axle front-end, the > magazines started mentioning things about things like alignment difficulties, > and wierd bump-steer characteristics, wierd tire wear from Ford's TTB. So > it wasn't quite ideal after all. I never said it was an ideal setup - there is probably no "ideal" setup. However, a couple of the mags mentioned how well the TTB setop worked in certain circumstances - in fact, one mag noted that for slow trail work the TTB was superior to the IFS in the Toyota. They also made it clear that, when the road opened up, the Toyota was superior at higher speeds. > 1.) lots of the talk in the magazines is just that - talk. I > only look at what I consider to be facts - specs, times, > stats, dyno tests (though can't they be fudged too?) etc., > and ignore the opinions on ride, interior etc - I'll make my > own decision. I've seen specs that were wrong as well. Bottom line is, make your own choice based on your needs. There are very few "bad" 4x4's out there - even the worst are pretty good. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 23:10:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Sheldon Belinkoff Subject: wanted for '94 Pathfinder: Brush/Nerf bars sold in Toronto To: Luis Lopes On Sat, 25 Jun 1994, Luis Lopes wrote: > Hi all! > > > Are Grizzlies any good? Can anyone recommend another mgfr? > I read in the 4x4 archives that Smittybilt weren't so hot. > I am not happy with my SmittyBilt brush guard, and can't wait to get it off my truck. I don't like the finish, the design, the quality of the welds, and, most of all, I didn't like the service I got from the company. I will never buy another SmittyBilt product again. Everyone I know that has a Grizzly product (2 people, not much of a sampling) has been satisfied. In my dealings with the company I've always been treated well. While I can't personally attest to the quality of their products, I'm sure going to call them when next I need something that they may stock. ___________________________ | | | Shel Belinkoff | | belinkof@netcom.com | |___________________________| ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 16:46:47 -0400 From: mjv@greenwich.com (Mark Vanston) Subject: Winches To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu I am looking to purchase a winch for my CJ, since I have a dual optima battery set up I think I should be O.K. for current drain, but I am confused by the numerous choices available from Ramsey, Warn, Superwinch etc. Anyone who has a winch and could help, I would appreciate it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 23:14:01 EDT From: BNDU67A@prodigy.com (MR MICHAEL J DUDZIAK) To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The views expressed in offroad are those of the individual authors only. End of Offroad Digest ****************************** *** End of Forwarded Message *** ------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 29 20:59:36 1994 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 1994 18:55:07 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: Moving Sale-Land Rover Parts Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I'm moving into one of those fancy new apt's w/o any storage space and the signifacant other says it's outa here. Here is a short list of what's gotta go. Roll bar, External sun visor, tailgate w/hardware, Zeinth carb-parts, it's rebuildable, soos the alt. I have. Also, a Safari Roof, Dlx. dished hood, and a Land Rover trailer 109 box bed it's towable panel sides an all roof has a tropical skin on it. Everything is reasonably priced considering that it's all used. Except, if it's not mine. Please feel free to call or e-mail me hm#(206)365-3514. Other little things are also available. HELP I'm loseing my garage!!!! LROVER@U.WASHINGTON.EDU From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 09:20:55 1994 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 14:03:15 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: to Richard Jones, Chassis numbering scheme Status: RO I had problems mailing you directly so ill post to the list. Rich, thanks for the information. I'm still a little confused. My RR has the number SALLHA-BV4-B-A161682 The vehicle is a 2 door, 3speed Automatic, LH stg, petrol, airconditioning, the revised dashboard (revised '85 ?). Here in Iceland the Rovers are nicknamed "Arabians" because the rumor say's they where bougth from a shipment originally destined to some Arabic country (hence normal cooling fan + 2 electric fans. This is maybe standard for airconditioned Rovers from this period?). The B in BV4 might indicate 2 door and V4 the rest. But how do i find the build year/model year, the chassinumber states 'B' (indicating '84-'85?) on my registration it says model 1985, first registered 19-december-86 as a new vehicle, but according to the Hayes Reparation manual some of the details indicate at least 1986 model (ex. the Vouge rubber steering damper, details of the high/lov selection lincage etc.). One of the reson for me wanting to know the model year is that I would like to order some workshop manuals and they span '70-'85 and then '86 on. On the other hand it is very interesting to try to retrace the history of your new (used)vehicle. Thanks again for your time and effort. Kjartan Bergsson Iceland. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 12:09:27 1994 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 10:00:27 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest, lro@stratus.com Subject: UNCLE!!! Status: RO > > TeriAnn, > > Please, Please come back to the net. I and a few others > miss you. I do agree with why you bailed out. But since > you made your observations the net has been back to mormal. > > Maybe Dixon and the little boys up north have learned their > lesson. I miss hearing from you. > > I have been recieving a tonne of mail from many of you asking me not to give up on the list. Well, I really appriciate the sentiment, and hadn't realized that my postings were that well regarded. It does feel good to feel wanted and that my postings are meaningful to some, though others would just as soon that I lighten up and play more. Well, please consider me back on the list and resubscribed. I hope I won't regret this. Thanks to all of you who have made my life a little brighter because of your E-Mails! TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 14:07:10 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 11:02:54 -0800 To: lro@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Ben's travels Status: RO Hello all, I sent Benjamin Smith (now graduated from Cal Tech) an email while he was detained, fixing his head, offering a place to eat and sleep on his trip to Seattle. He called yesterday and I was able to follow through on my offer. After his drive up from So. Cal., through the central valley in the summer heat, we cooled off at the campus pool. In the parking lot, Ben casually reinserted the drivers side window and door frame, shut the door and locked the handle. As dinner time appoached, we proceeded to my house; he drove his very heavily loaded rover and my son and I rode our bikes (bikes are the mode of transportation here in Davis). Because a friend had given me a big hunk of moose that I had marinated all day, we had barbequed moose with pasta and sauteed veggies. Ben is rather tall (6-4) and had seconds of the moose so either he was really hungry or it was good. I'll eat just about anything and like it so people don't really trust me when I say, deer, elk or moose is good and not gamey. I was able to look at Bens vehicle somewhat; most was obscurred by the luggage. The rear area and front passenger seat as well as the roof rack were loaded. His rear springs were pretty much flat and his head lights would be pointing up in the dark. We of course talked rover things for a while and then moved onto computers and the net. He was able to respond (from my home computer)to the post advertising a trailer for sale in Seattle and I hope for the sake of his rover that it works out. A properly loaded trailer would take a load off his vehicle. Anyway, he left Davis this morning, continuing up I-5. He hasn't called me which means he should be past Redding by now, on his way to Oregon, then Seattle. I hope he had an enjoyable time, I know that I enjoyed talking to him, plus I opened his eyes to Guinness Stout from aluminum cans. Very similar to the real draft stuff. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me 916 752 8520 University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu Davis, CA or leave me alone, your choice. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 14:23:32 1994 Date: 30 Jun 94 15:08:41 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: re: Howdy all- ; Perkins Status: RO >About the Perkins, I could be all wrong on this but... > >I seem to recal hearing that the block for the Perkins was the same as >the Rover diesel. I think they are a fairly popular marine engine so it >is likely that parts, tech data, and service are commonly available. Uh-uh, not true. I had a 4-cyl. Perkins running in my Landy for a while, and the thing doesn't even remotely look like a Rover diesel. I'll agree on the availability of parts, but that doesn't mean they come cheap! Cheers, Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 14:24:23 1994 Date: 30 Jun 94 15:08:49 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Morgan Hannaford Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Howdy all- ; Perkins Status: RO ... and howdy to you! >A friend of mine in Northern California has what he thinks is a >1956 series I SWB (sitting in the garage). > It has a Perkins diesel in it?? Did Land >Rover put these in or is it an after market jobber? >Anyway, the aluminum head on the motor has corrosion damage >and blows thick clouds of blue smoke. Is it possible to find >parts for these motors (i.e. head); I know Perkins is a big company. > Or would it be more economical to just pop in another Rover engine > (diesel or petrol)? "Why, one of my best engines was a Perkins..." No, seriously: I had a used 4-cyl. Perkins in my 1973 109" Station for a while after kicking out the old gas-guzzling six-cylinder. BTW, Land Rover themselves _never_ fitted Perkins, but at least in England it was a favourite and cheap replacement because millions of them (almost) were and still are running in the old London Taxis. First the Perkins' pro's: - it's got *loads* of torque - they're super-economical. The con's: - it's a lame duck - the vibrations can shake the doors off the hinges - they're smelly - to start it at low temperatures you need a mega-mega-power-pak-battery - at speeds beyond 40 mph you & your passengers need ear protection gear So, when mine blew a piston I was happy to have a pretext to throw it back on the scrap heap where it came from and fit a regular Rover 2.25l 4-cyl. petrol. I'd advise your friend to do likewise. Cheers, Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 16:16:59 1994 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 15:38:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Frame Lore To: Keith Coman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <257B07F5502@giraffe.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have always used an engine hoist to remove my transmissions, but my friend uses a musch simpler set up. He uses a piece of steel pipe resting on the inside gutters over the doors. The seem strong enough to support the transmission. He uses a come-along to lift the transmission using this steel pipe, and he has a wheel for sliding it left and right. He runs a one man shop and this is the only way he says he can do transmission jobs alone. He can move the transmission back and forth as well when he wants to do a clutch job. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 30 16:03:21 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: Howdy all- ; Perkins Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 13:54:00 PDT Encoding: 38 TEXT Status: RO I thought I'd add my Perkins experience to this discussion. While it's not the Perkins model in this thread of discussion (from the Series I w/corroded head, etc.), its just to show that Perkins engines come in other flavors... I have a 'high-revving' Perkins in my 1979 Rangey. It's a 4.182 turbo. This is a very different engine than the older style 'lugging' behemoths that are so 'easy to find/cheap' in England. I bought mine new in the US and am *very* happy with the conversion. I understand this engine is also a great conversion for a 109". >First the Perkins' pro's: > - it's got *loads* of torque >- they're super-economical. I'm getting 20-25 mpg in town and 25-30 mpg on the freeway. Also, parts are very available in the US, unlike many of the Japanese diesels that are readily available in England. >The con's: > - it's a lame duck Comfortable 80 mph cruising w/O-drive. > - the vibrations can shake the doors off the hinges Generally smooth, but idle does rattle more than the old V-8. > - they're smelly The exhaust is clear (this has a lot to do with the engine's age...) > - to start it at low temperatures you need a mega-mega-power-pak-battery I haven't been colder than about 20F, and that was not a problem. > - at speeds beyond 40 mph you & your passengers need ear protection gear Only if the stereo's cranked... John Rostykus john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 08:21:17 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy) Organization: Project LearnLink: Linking Educators Everywhere! Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 19:20:48 EST Subject: Landie Woes! Status: RO Well, guys, you have managed to truly hook me on the idea of owning a Land Rover over the past week. I have gotten piles of mail and advice and many friendly offers. I decided to go ahead and get my beast, so I started clearing space in the driveway and selling some extra parts and parts cars to get together the money. Over the past three days, I've been trying to reach the owner of the one I looked at to make an offer. Today, I got ahold of him. The Rover sold the day after I looked at it for the asking price of $800. I'm very depressed now. I'm without my Rover and I was so looking forward to delving into the guts of the electrics this weekend. Damn damn damn damn DAMN! The end result of all of this is that I appreciate everything that you folks have done and the advice you've given and I'm still in the market. If anyone sees any ads or can post anything from their local area or from catalogs, etc. that you see, please let me know via mail or on the list. I'm looking for something preferably on the cheap end and I would *like* a IIa, although that's not an absolute necessity. Please let me know what's out there, I'm going into withdrawal and I haven't even owned one yet! /========/ Sean Murphy, LearnLink Administrator !! !! !! Internet/Telnet: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu !! !! !! Phone: (404)/727-2259 /========/ For information, mail Info@learnlink.emory.edu