From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 16:00:19 1994 Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 15:50:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: vacuum advance? Status: RO Hello all! Having become "quite experienced" about distributor vacuum advance from repairing my mazda pickup (gotta have at least 1 motor with a roof!) I took a look at the beast and noticed a vacuum hose fitting on "that very corroded trumpet thing" hanging off of my distributor! Does anyone else have their vacuum advance disabled? I'm going to be sticking my vacuum pump/gauge on the thing soon. I'm actually quite impressed. The mazda is a piece of kaka without Vacuum advance. The rover on the other hand has been quite reasonable (yes the vacuum ports on the carb are all plugged) I am able to do about 70 mph on flats with overdrive and 50 on fairly steep hills. Wow, if I fix that thing what kind of performance gain will I see? Indy here I come! (Well maybe Limerock first!) John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:21:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 17:42:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) writes: > >>> Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned > > >>Bale bags??? my hay always came bailed with eather twine or wire. Handy st > > >But makes lousy curtains? > > You could always knit the bailing wire into chainmail curtains. The chainmail would be useful for those living in Florida or Los Angles where not only are the natives armed, but they actually exchange pleasantries in the form of gunfire. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:21:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Mike Rooth on RoverWeb From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 17:44:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > PS - Dixon - where are those pics????? Waiting for me to get a friend to upload them as he does have full net access. StatCan is being less than co-operative about giving me an account. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 18:31:24 1994 Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 18:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: John Hong Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199405011950.PAA13110@zork.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Sorry Ace, the vacuum advance is used as an econmy measure only... The flame propogation in the chamber that has been subject to a sub-atmospheric induction is such that it can use an early start point for ignition.....The dynamic compression ratio is MUCH lower than static under these condition and will withstand more total advance.....OK in >English.. the fuel burns slower when there is less of it (and air) in the cyl....soooo you gotta light the match sooner if you want the stuff to burn and reach max.pressure at the proper time in the cycle..Ifin' ya' don't,the pressure builds after the optimum time and all the push is wasted ,sometimes out the exhaust!(if you don't believe this,retard the time and FEEL the exhaust pressure at the tailpipe...Leave it this way and watch the manifold get red hot!) So with the advance non-functional the rover will need a (slightly) larger throttle opening to develope the power to overcome friction than would be nessesary if you were burning the fuel in an efficent manner. When you womp the go pedal to the floor(which in a 109 is always) the "vacuum" goes away and the static or mechanical advance setting takes over as the max. advance that the engine can stand at that rpm and temperature during max. cyl. filling...... whew......this is one way that the modern engines get the fuel mileage that they do.. they electronicly control the timing and with knock sensors and such keep the timing at the higest possible setting eg: just short of"Knocking" The land rover along with any car of the period will often run well shy of the optimum timing to prevent engine damage (the timing needs can be dependant on so many things that there is not a single mechanical device that can cope with all the changes in fuel, temperatue, air density etc. This explains the low compression ratio on the Lander...the folks at Solihull do not have any control on the type of "Camel piss" that you will be putting in the tank at 117 F. w/o enough water in the radiator,while pulling Montana up mount Everest..... OK I'll stop.....I'm goin' ta' school to teach this stuff....now if there were a course in keeping students AWAKE........ (More than) 'nuff said steve.. HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 19:58:40 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 10:21:27 +0930 (CST) Cc: ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Steven M Denis" at Apr 30, 94 12:54:13 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1151 Status: RO Steve writes > If you are going to convert a Range Rover,get the biggest,baddest wompin' > Diesel that ya' can lay your hands on....The 3.9 Isusu engine will fit > nicely and I understand that it is a standard fitment in Australia in Land > rovers. Unfortunately the 3.9 (4DB) Isuzu WAS original fitment to 110's over here, not no more. For a Really fun time try to get a 4DB-T , 3.9 Turbo, more torque at idle than a 3.5 V8's max. > The biggest problem is that these engines are governed to 3000 rpm amd this > will limit your top speed with stock gearing.... Get hold of the 0.996:1 transfer set as fitted to the OZ 3.9 110's (LT-95 4sp, sorry dont know transfer ratio of the 5sp, but there must be a hi-speed one) An aquaintance in far off QLD, put a 3.9 Turbo in a rangie, needed new front springs and the taller transfer gears, swears by it rather than at it 30 -32 mpg at 70 mph, goes everywhere in top-gear so he claims. Best of luck -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7392 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 08:54:18 1994 Date: Mon, 2 May 94 09:40:30 -0400 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: 16" Tires Status: RO I learned on Friday that the Goodyear Wrangler MT radial tires (215/85 x 16). tires which had originally been spec'ed for my restoration have been discontinued. Goodyear has apparently replaced them with a model called the MST. I've decided to go with a set of Cooper CTD radials in a 235/85x16. There is also a taller, narrower size which works with a IIa. This particualr model is the middle of the tread severity range. Cooper also makes an aggressive tread for full-time off roaders and a street tread which will fit. Now that work on the Rover has finally begun it is progessing nicely. Since my last report we've switched donor vehicles again, for the final time. I'm now in a 68 IIa 88", which will be set up with the headlights inboard. Color is now to be Marine Blue, which was my first color choice. All of the stereo problems seem to be worked out and I still have a center front seat. I'll write it up once the actual installation is complete and road tested. I also have an interesting idea for a bimini top which I'll pass along if it works out. Hopefully, I'll be driving the beast by May 27th, which is the day of a giant beach party in my hometown. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. Jimmy Buffett == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 09:03:30 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 2 May 94 9:56:06 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 29, 94 7:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Robin writes: > love Mr Rooth's bits and pieces on Round a bouts as they are really > called, come on Mike give it the proper name. here in da states *the* proper name is "traffic circles", but most of the rest of you probably refer to them as "rotaries", no? > We have an arse backwards one here in town, those coming onto it have the > priority Mike! That one still catches me out. you mean to tell me New Jersey isn't the *only* place this is done?? can some provincial ministry really be *that* stupid as to follow NJ's lead?? never in my entire life have i seen anything so rediculous. I tavel around the bear mountain traffic circle (the one with the bulls eye in it) almost every day, and it is the first circle NJ drivers come to as they flee their state in the northerly direction. nine times out of ten, when i am cut off by an incoming car, it's got joisey plates on it. GRRRRR. no offense to those from NJ, except for those with several NY traffic infractions on their licenses..... rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:32:59 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 2 May 94 15:36:27 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Moss Motors Car show Content-Type: Text Status: RO Well, I'm settled into my new location in Short Hills and was suprised at how quickly I got reconnected. It should be interesting to see how the job turns out. I went to the Moss Motors British Car Show in Dover NJ Saturday and had a pretty good time. Lots of British cars & vendors. Not as much Rover stuff as last year but the turn out was pretty impressive. I picked up a couple of Land Rover pins and a Lucas 18ACR alternator for $10. I assumed it did not work and confirmed this when I got home. The rectifer and avalanche diode were both bad. I'll pick up some replacements this week and throw in bearings at the same time. The brushes seemed pretty good. There was a well used IIA shop manual (Part 2 I think) but they wanted $30. I'd rather spend a little more and get a new set from the LRO bookshop. There was a very nice III 88 soft top on display. The owner was Joe ??? from PA. He had just finished a complete restoration including new galvanized chassis and suspension. A really nice job. He had bought a frameover kit from ABP and was not entirely happy with it. The vehicle leans to the left slightly and he said that the LH bulkhead bolt hole on the LH outrigger was 1/2" too far out and the bulkhead would not bolt up. He had to cut & drill the new frame to make it fit. Owwww! He said the bulkhead fit the old frame properly so the problem was with the frame. Do any of our UK members have any experience/recommenations with galvanized frames from PRB or Walker? Any comments would be appreciated. ABP used to carry Walker frames but had a falling out with them. I don't know the details but they are now carrying PRB frames (or is it PWB?). Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one side? Thanks. Sunday I tackled the window channels in the RH 88 hard top sliding windows. A lot of work but very satisfying. The most useful tools I had aside from a drill were a Dremel with a cutting wheel for cleaning/cutting screw slots in the old window channel screws, a shop vac to suck away the crud so I could see what I was doing, and thin nosed vice grips to turn out the worst of the screws. The top and side channels were fairly straight forward but the bottom were a challenge. After trying the careful approach in undoing the screws I just grabbed the end of one channel (they were pretty rusted) and started to bend it out. I found by working it back and forth it will finally snap at the next screw head. From there it's not too hard to pry it away from the screw and repeat the process until the channel is out. Once the channel was out of the way it was fairly easy to grip the screw heads and turn them out. One thing I didn't anticipate was that the rubber washers on the sliding locks were disintigrating. I'll try to get replacements this week. It felt so good to see the new channels in place. I almost wanted to put the hard top back on. Mabey next weekend I'll tackle the other side. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 567-3757 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. 2E231 101 JFK Parkway Short Hills, NJ 07078 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 12:26:41 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion Date: Mon, 02 May 94 09:26:00 PDT Encoding: 63 TEXT Status: RO Andrew writes: > I've thought about a conversion of my Range Rover's engine to diesel. > Now after having driven the Land Rover 300Tdi engine, I feel even > stronger about this. > > Looking in the May Land Rover Internation magazine (the first isue I've > ever seen of it by the way) there are several ads for diesel conversions. snip... > My questions are 1) Has anyone converted from gas to diesel? > 2) Did you use a company w > Gotta go!! > > Thanks, > > Andrew > Dayton, Ohio Last summer I completed converting my 1979 2-dr Range Rover to a Perkins 4.182 turbo diesel. This is a 4 cyl. 182 cu in (~3.0 liter) engine. I am *extremely* pleased with the results of this conversion. I have a 4-spd gearbox, which I complemented with a Fairey/Superwinch overdrive. I get 25-30 mpg, and it will easily cruise at 80 mph on the freeway. After driving it for almost a year now, I'm very happy with the results. I spent a long time investigating various conversion possibilities, making several calls to dealers and garages in England. Since I expect to have the engine for a long time, it was very important that I had confidence in the availability of parts, here in the U.S. There are many options, but for me, this narrowed my choices down quite quickly to the Perkins. The U.S. importation laws make it difficult to bring engines into the country, that are not already in use here (though, not impossible) I found the engine locally, so shipping costs were nil. I purchased the conversion kit from Motor and Diesel Engineering, in England, and was quite pleased with the kit's completeness and instructions. It is well thought out, and fits very cleanly in the Range Rover without modifications to the vehicle. I did install heavy duty front springs. I found that a few used Japanese diesels are available in the U.S., through the 'imported Japanese used engine' dealers, which there are many of in the Seattle area. They can get any of the diesels that were originally sold in the U.S., and will guarantee that they 'run'. Also, the local marine suppliers can obtain a variety of nice Isuzu engines ($$$). While I could probably have found a way to obtain just about any engine considered to be a 'good' conversion through a variety of methods, the importation cost plus the ready availability of parts in the U.S. convinced me to go with Perkins. My next project is to retro-fit a Tdi radiator, to get the intercooler... Good luck! John Rostykus P.S. If you have further questions, either post to the group or mail to me at 'john@data-io.com'. What year is your Rangey? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 13:29:28 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: Reflections To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 2 May 94 13:19:26 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404291119.AA06248@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Apr 29, 94 12:19 pm Status: RO Mike Rooth said (among more very amusing bits): > > ... > To the 88" driver these islands,if smallenough,can be treated as a chicane, > welly being applied vigourously at the apex of the circle,*bags* of helm, > a la Nuvolari (look it up),and then enjoy the view in your mirror as Granny > tries to sort out her dilemma,having followed you faithfully in her funny > little motor. > ... Crimeny, I wish those Brits would learn to speak English! :) :) First sentence in a long time that has sent me to my dictionary (which in an unpardonable breach of good faith, completely omits any mention of Nuvolari)!! Mark From scott@more.net Mon May 2 14:17:40 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 14:13:36 -0600 To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: scott@more.net (Scott Fritz) Subject: Re: More on printers Status: RO Should that be "More on" printers or Moron printers.... ;) scott ====================================================================== Scott Fritz scott@more.net User Services / NIC Coordinator (314) 882-2000 ======== MOREnet -- Missouri Research and Education Network ======== From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 19:07:12 1994 Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 19:55:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: pinion oil seals Status: RO Okay you rover DIYers! (please respond directly to jhong@haiku.com and I will consolidate and post) My rear differential has been throwing gear lube for quite a while now. I have been trying to correctly fit a new oil seal and neither the haynes or the landrover manual clearly indicate the orientation of the seal. The seal is flat on one side and has 2 circumfrential "walls" on the other side. The cross section looks something like this: |_|__ __|_| I have tried installing them both ways. Which way do you think it should go? Flat side toward the differential or flat side toward the drive shaft? Email to me and I will consolidate and post! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 20:58:41 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR finger To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 19:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 250 Status: RO Hey, mates, roverettes... Finger me, if you know what I mean. (It's safe. This is a unisex message.) T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 07:27:23 1994 Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 12:14:56 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <199405011950.PAA13110@zork.tiac.net> from "John Hong" at May 1, 94 03:50:56 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2218 Status: RO John Hong writes: > > Hello all! > > Having become "quite experienced" about distributor vacuum advance from > repairing my mazda pickup (gotta have at least 1 motor with a roof!) > I took a look at the beast and noticed a vacuum hose fitting on "that very > corroded trumpet thing" hanging off of my distributor! > > Does anyone else have their vacuum advance disabled? I'm going to be > sticking my vacuum pump/gauge on the thing soon. My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that when I bought it). Please don't ask any technical questions because I really don't understand what it does or how, but form the driving point of view (since it is still in pieces and has been for some months this is from memory). The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is okay. Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping petrol all over the road on left hand bends. After talking to various people there appears to be to camps emerging, with regard to fixing the pickup: 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it Like I say, the technical bits are beyond me, but hope this is of some use. Ps, I think when (if) it ever gets back on the road I will persure route 2. > I'm actually quite impressed. The mazda is a piece of kaka without Vacuum > advance. The rover on the other hand has been quite reasonable (yes the > vacuum ports on the carb are all plugged) I am able to do about 70 mph on > flats with overdrive and 50 on fairly steep hills. > > Wow, if I fix that thing what kind of performance gain will I see? Indy > here I come! (Well maybe Limerock first!) > > John Hong > (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 06:29:39 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Reflections Bouncing Back To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 3 May 94 12:20:12 BST Status: RO Oh dear! Right,well,chaps.Sorry Mark.Tazio Nuvolari,prewar racing driver, renowned (I think) for getting his cufflinks mixed up with the steering wheel.All this straight armed driving is *newfangled* you know,steering wheels *used* to be in your lap,or a la Land Rover. To satisfy the purist,yes Robin,they *are* indeed called roundabouts, just like our fairground rides.I was surprised that any US examples werent called carousels.In my defence,however islands is easier to type,and they are called that was well. Its a constant source of delight to me,how American English and English differ.For instance the American term "wrist pin"is an immediately recognisable technical term.Where the hell did we get GUDGEON pin from? I mean the Gudgeon is a quite inoffensive small freshwater fish.I like the term "to speak with" better than "to speak to",the latter implying absolutely *no* input from the other party involved. In fact,didnt some Haynes manuals have a glossary of American and English technical terms at the front?I'm certain I can remember one such. And why do you Americans fill forms *out*.We fill them *in*.After all,they are no bigger after you've finished,are they? Pet hate.The term "handgun".Of course its a bloody hangun,otherwise it would be on wheels wouldnt it?Its a pistol.Invented in Pistoea (sp) in Tuscany.Or sidearm if you wish.The rifle is a rifle,or longarm.But a rifle is still a handgun. Too far from Land Rovers,this. I'm off. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:27:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 08:03:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Ok, I have done some research and called around and have come up with the following information on wheel rims for Land Rovers, if you know of any variance on this stuff then please post it to the board not to me. Series ones came with 16 inch rims with a 4 1/2" width. Series ones and two's were fiited with split rims, not the types we usualy see in north america but split on the the total cross section and bolted together. This was a military fitment. It quite often led to the practice of painting the nuts on the wheel. White for the nuts to remove the wheel from the hub. red for the nuts to undo the rim. this was to stop the unwitting squaddie from egt himself injured as a result of the pressure balsting out as he separated the rims! If you ar looking fo some of these then try looking for an austin champ as they will fit and came with splits as standard. >From what I have gathered the most popular rims for the series two era were for 88" vehicles 16 inch 5 inch wide rims. For the increased weight for the 109" the rim width was increased to 5 1/2 inches. There are offset rims, puting the trye further away from the centre of the vehcile. Quite often called deep dished or even military rims. While the military did use these rims as standard for quite a while they were always available as a civilian part number. There could have been two offsets but I am waiting for clarification on that one. The offset increases the total track of the vehicle. QED. The 110 i beleive is available with a 6 inch width rim. Confirmation please anyone? The rims from a 101 forward control will only fit a 101 forward control period. Different number of studs people. >From what I have understood the following fitment was possible 750 X 16 5 1/2 inch width rim 700 X 16 5 inch rim 650 X 16 5 inch rim I have purosely not delved into the grey area of range rover rim swaps. There was a very good article in LRO mag about the perils of that. Hope that this helps someone, and if as is very likely there are innaccuracies (sp) then please let me know. Thanks Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:33:08 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 3 May 94 12:59:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Tread Lightly Content-Type: Text Status: RO I started on the other set of sliding window channels when I got home last night. It goes a lot quicker the second time around. I had almost gotten the last two screws out when Baywatch came on, so I had to drop everything. I didn't see any Land Rovers even though I was watching very carefully. I guess I'll have to watch it again next week. ****************************************************************************** I saw an ad for the Tread Lightly organization in the Bay State club newsletter and decided to give it a try. I hoped it might give me some leads for off roading locations in my area. Their number is toll free 1-800-966-9900 or toll 1-801-621-8633. Membership is $20 (a year I think) and this is what you get: 1. Charter Member patch 2. Charter Member lapel pin 3. Charter Member window sticker 4. Plastic wallet card 5. Bumper sticker 6. 8.5" X 11" membership certificate (with your name on it) 7. Quarterly newsletter - 5 pages 8. Brochure - Outdoors America - A guide to Federal Recreation Lands throughout the US - not only national parks - includes phone numbers for additional information. It even includes off roading locations in... New Jersey??? Pine Barrens here I come! 9. The Toyota (gasp!) guide to America's Best Off Highway Family Adventures - a 54 page guide to off road trails & driving in the US. 10.An order form for more Tread Lightly stuff All of the stuff is pretty nice. The literature is well done and promotes responsible off roading habits. I called on a Thursday and received the package on Monday, Utah to NJ. Pretty fast. Well worth the money. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 567-3757 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. 2E231 101 JFK Parkway Short Hills, NJ 07078 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:44:54 1994 Date: Tue, 03 May 1994 11:30:00 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Camel Trophy Update Status: RO April 29th, Day 14- The convoy cleared Socompa Pass today, through the heart of the remotest section of the Andes. And they had a new off-road hazard to worry about - LAND MINES. Chile and Argentina went to war back in 1978 (something trifling about real estate ownership in Tierra del Fuego), and the passes were sown with mines, though according to one border guard, neither side has any idea of where the mines were actually laid. The region is stark, desolate but otherwise beautiful, with astounding terrain diversity on the descent into the Atacama desert. As it has not rained in some places since 1926, the fine, talcum-like dust became a great obstacle; several teams narrowly averted disaster when temporarily blinded by the clouds. Only with GPS were the teams able to find Friday night's camp about 80km from the coast. April 30th, Day 15- This was the beginning of two navigation tasks using the sat-nav receivers on each vehicle. The first task broke the group into three teams of six nations each, with the object of finding sets of coordinates in the desert within the six hour time frame. One group managed to find all the coordinates, another returned on-time, fearful of a time penalty, though they did not locate all of the positions. A third group, led by the Swiss (currently first place in special task points) returned in disarray, after a near mutiny when team members disagreed with their leader's navigation. I'll wager they won't score high in the "team spirit" voting at the end! The second task was to be a 500km, 18 hour marathon that would have had the teams returning a 4AM Monday morning, just before the start of the final special task events. However, the Canary Islands team became lost in the desert; they had waived on the reaminder of thier team when stricken with a mechanical problem that turned out to be too much for a field repair. After their resue by event officials, the 18 hr course was shorthened to seven hours, as officials feared that some might disappear into the vastness of the trackless Atacama. May 1st, Day 16- The object of today's satelite navigation task was to find as many of ten coordinates as possible within the alotted seven hours, these positions marked only by small colored stones in the otherwise vast, featureless wastes of the desert. Broken down into six groups of three each, only one team managed to find nine of the positions. Going into the event, the Swiss held a narrow eight point lead over the US; the Russians were third, 20 points behind the US. Could the US team of Mack Barber and Dave Simpson (a self-proclaimed desert rat from California) be the first nation to repeat a win? Could be, as the near-mutiny on Saturday is sure to cost the Swiss team spirit points. Monday, Day 17- This was the start of two days of intensive special task competition; featured events will include vehicle recovery from a deep gully and a near-impossible driving task. The Camel Trophy will finish Wednesday around lunch time in the coastal town of Hornitos. Don't touch that dial! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 12:42:07 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Moss Motors Car show Date: 3 May 1994 17:31:29 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <199405031522.LAA18854@transfer.stratus.com>, wmalon wrote: > >Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part >number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and >when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for >each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one >side? Thanks. > >Bill Maloney > British Pacific has springs with a differnt part number for each corner. They're in Burbank, CA. They have an 800 number, which I don't have at my disposal. Randy Rose rsrose@puck.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 16:14:48 1994 Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 17:06:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Thanks for all the pinion seal replies Status: RO I'll compile and forward after I machine the seal surface this evening! Thanks all! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 01:20:13 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 23:12:08 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Promo tape for Defender Status: RO I still am on the mailing list for LRoNA, so they sent me a advert tape today for the Defender 90. The tape contains various and sundry shots of the Defender, plus a segment on the Camel trophy, which looks like someone elses work (its the Malasaya 1993 event). Also, there's a short segment pushing the LR Driving School they run every year. The 1993 event seems to have been an opportunity to push the Discovery in the same advert tape. | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================| | If I'm good, someday I will get to convert a LR110 into a car camper | From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 16:30:27 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: LOOK OUT FOR THAT CLIFF!!! Date: Wed, 04 May 94 14:18:00 PDT Encoding: 178 TEXT Status: RO This is a piece my wife wrote, about her first experience in low range. I thought you might enjoy it. Rosty ---------- Driving over cliffs Can be Fun, given a little preparation, a little foresight, and a co-driver that is willing to urge one on for the Really Sticky Bits. Oh, yes, AND a '79 Range Rover with a 3 liter, turbo diesel engine, 8 inches of play to the rear axle and 11 inches of play to the front axle. Thing is that I didn't start out knowing that I'd be driving over cliffs. It started out as an innocent thing, where myJohn, being a happy, enthusiastic Land Rover type, took me out to the Northwest Challenge, a gathering of Land Rover truck owners. We also belong to the Northwest's Land Rover Owners club, as John's habit has included various 88's, a couple 109's (one of which is a 1966 109 ex-military pickup that we drove in today on with the top off. Probably one of the most battered, utilitarianly beautiful (O.K. UGLY), convertible on the streets of Seattle..), a 110 with a thousand compartments a truly *amazing* story of how it got into the US. that included a dead uncle, years in an Alaskan field and a truly 'complete overhaul', and a couple of used Range Rovers. The club is really neat, filled with folks that own really *old* Land Rovers, the ones that resemble the Anti-Christ of The Gods Must be Crazy. Land Rovers weren't imported into the US from the early 1970's until just last year, so they were pretty rare here for a while, and all that were truly available were really old, beatup trucks that needed a lot of care. Sigh. I can't really do Land Rovers justice in a single missive. Anyway... The Northwest Challenge has two parts. One part is for the really rugged off-roaders with points for performance. The other part is an 'easy' rally thing that has some bits of off-roading in it. John, during the whole of our vacation, was saying, hey, maybe you should do the rally! I kinda laughed and then kinda nodded and next thing I know, I'm in line waiting to try out a teeter-totter in the Rangy and wondering just HOW easy was Easy? The teeter-totter was just two rails balanced on a log through support boards, the Land Rovers and Range Rovers would drive onto the tracks, and the driver would try to balance the truck over the log. John actually went out and lowered the idle on the Rangy for this, and they're all standard shift gearing. Turns out that with the diesel engine I could actually put the truck in first gear, low range, and with one foot on the clutch and one foot on the brake I could let the clutch out as I was letting go of the brake and the truck would creep up the incline in either gear. But with only three minutes to actually figure out the balance... anyway, I managed to float both ends of the teeter totter for a while... but didn't manage to make the time limit on the balance. Then we were off... Over the valley and through the woods, Over bikers we will go... Ooops. Wasn't supposed to say that. We were on logging and power line roads the entire time. The club's very, very strict about not destroying anything that hasn't already been cleared or made for off roading. The problem was that there was a dirt biking rally going on the same day that our rally was going on. The bike rally was *supposed* to be over by the time we got in, but, sure enough, they weren't. And bikers being bikers were just *crazy* compared to the Rovers, which, I guess, is the point. I am quite sure they had a lot of fun, even the one that bounced off the front of one of the trucks. The truck was coming around a blind corner, rather slowly, and the biker just zoomed around from the other side and literally bounced off the front of the Land Rover. The rider pulled the bike off the road and then sat down on the hillside, waved the Landy's drivers off with a "I'm O.K. I'm just going to sit a bit, but I think I'm just fine..." The navigator of the truck, somewhat exasperated, said, "Maybe, but we don't hit people very often, so we'd like to be sure you're O.K." He checked out, O.K. Tough... stupid, perhaps, but tough... and after seeing what some of the bikers do to themselves on the trails, I could believe the guy was just fine. The beginning of the ride was pretty innocuous, just regular rally stuff on dirt roads. We got to a little loose gravel, the trees started closing in, the dirt started turning to mud, and then we started following things that looked more like deer paths than roads. Not too steep, but steep enough. After a couple more turns we started meeting up with other Rovers. A few more and the dirt bikes started buzzing in behind us like angry hornets. So I pulled aside and let them go on. More and more Rovers started getting lost and at one point there was a bottleneck of about half a dozen going through some fairly windy, narrow, nearly canyon like 'roads'. A little further and we turned down a path under a power line. I could still see the road over the hood when we reached the edge of that one, and didn't like much what I saw. Rocks about as big as my head, that slimy red mud that was as much local clay as anything else, and a bunch of Rover tracks to follow. John kinda matter of factly told me how to get into low range, first gear for going down and yelled at me a couple of times to just take my foot off the clutch and not worry about the gas. It astonished me that that worked, but since I was in the middle of just *doing* it, it didn't frighten me nearly as much as afterwards, when I actually thought through what I'd just done. And the Rangy pretty much walked over the boulders that I pointed it at and that was that. Well, other than leaning into our shoulder harnesses as we went down the steep incline, and the fact that I felt a lot like I was riding a swaying, lurching camel. John was rather proud of the fact that I hadn't bounced the car once. Then it was up a slope that I would never have even attempted on *foot*, much less in anything on wheels. Half-a- dozen bikes buzzed around me, and zoomed straight up the slope, two didn't make it to the top, had to turn around and do a semi-controlled fall down the slope in order to try and go up again. After a few of those I looked at the JF. He grinned back at me and said, "You'll make it. No prob." So I put it into second, and sure enough. we made it, with momentum and room to spare. After that I thought I was home free; but then we came to this *cliff*. The cliff had this very intimidating sign that said, "Warning Dirt Bike Race in Progress. Watch for bikes!!" I couldn't see over the edge of the cliff even when I'd put a wheel over the edge. I panicked a bit. John told me to Back Up. So I did. I parked the Rover at the top, opened the door and promptly dropped it, as I realized that I'd parked the Rover at a nearly 20 degree angle. I just hadn't realized it was so steep after all the other tilting we'd done... I walked to the edge and calmly started spotting rocks. THAT was when I realized that it was a slope I would probably have broken my neck *CLIMBING* down, much less driving down. As John later put it... "I could tell when you were getting nervous 'cause you got kinda... terse." The good thing was that the warning sign was for the motorcycles at the bottom of the slope. The bad thing was that as I was heading back to the Rover two more Landies pulled up and the driver of the first asked, "What's wrong?" I laughed and said, "Nothing, other than I couldn't see over the edge until I got out of the car; and there's a race at the bottom of the slope..." They laughed too. I don't know why. I climbed into the Rover, hauled the door shut to a congratulations from the JF, and put the car into first gear, low-range, and took my foot off the clutch and prayed. We went down that slope hanging from our shoulder straps, and John talked me through it like talking a frightened horse through a fire. The diesel has incredible braking capability because it has much higher compression than a normal gas engine. We picked our way down, and it felt a little like riding an extraordinarily sure footed horse as it picked its way down a steep trail with nary a slip or slide. At the bottom I quietly put the Rover back into high range and waited for the wave from the bike race coordinator; and then took off down the now really safe and ridiculously *flat* road. It was an experience. Chuckle. It felt *really* good to know that I tried it and accomplished what I would have thought impossible even while scared to death by it. That was fantastic... Thanks John!! ---- Liralen Li | "Remember, science is talking about the universe in a li@inigo.Data-IO.com | way you can understand it, magic is talking to the aka Phyllis Rostykus | universe in a way it can't resist hearing." Neil Gaiman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 17:35:44 1994 Date: Wed, 04 May 1994 18:26:32 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Mailing List To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello, has something happened to the LRO mailing list? I've not been getting any mail for two weeks now. Is it possible to be put back on the distribution list? Thanks, Andrew Steele AD158@dayton.wright.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:12:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Reflections Bouncing Back From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:34:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > Its a constant source of delight to me,how American English and English > differ. Thank god you specified the cahps south of the border as being distinct from us in the thawing barbarian hinterlands. You think they write funny, well, just wait until you actually talk to them... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:14:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tread Lightly From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:37:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > I saw an ad for the Tread Lightly organization in the Bay State club > newsletter and decided to give it a try. I hoped it might give me some leads > for off roading locations in my area. Their number is toll free > 1-800-966-9900 or toll 1-801-621-8633. Membership is $20 (a year I think) an > this is what you get: One has just started in Canada. I received their general information this morning, so will post the Canadian numbers tomorrow. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:14:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Moss Motors Car show From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:40:16 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part > number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and > when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for > each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one > side? Thanks. If you really want to get accurate, there are eight different springs. Starting with breaking them into two lots, the springs on each corner of a Land Rover are different, in the North American Dollar Area (NADA) and for the UK. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:12:30 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Summer events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:44:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I'll post the details on the OVLR Birthday party tomorrow. OVLR is planning at least two other overnight events after the Birthday Party, so hopefully we will have four of them this year (The first is on the 21st of May to the Otter Lake area of Quebec) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 05:05:23 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk (Richard Jones) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 10:49:00 BST Cc: jhong@haiku.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405031214.aa18001@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at May 3, 94 12:14 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi folks, this is by way of a swan song as I don't find the list has such a good SNR for me any more since I moved from leaf to coils. Nice chatting to you all in the past. > My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that .. > The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is > okay. Rangeys come with carbs and either a vaccum advance or both advance and retard from 1970-85 in the UK. The advance is a fuel saving and drivability aid and the retard is an emissions aid. Disconnecting the advance will adversely affect small throttle work but won't alter WOT a jot. (Wide open throttle). Retard vacuum source is only present when throttle plate is near closed. > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that Do you mean pre vacuum retard? > 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it It doesn't contain a program; it's the same dizzy as points except it has reluctance switching incorporated. Perhaps the US version is different. Best Regards, Steve. sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 06:29:34 1994 Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk (Steve Methley) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 11:48:18 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9405050949.AA19064@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at May 5, 94 10:49:00 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2360 Status: RO Steve Methley writes: > > Hi folks, > this is by way of a swan song as I don't find the list has > such a good SNR for me any more since I moved from leaf to coils. > Nice chatting to you all in the past. > > > > My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that > .. > > The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is > > okay. > > Rangeys come with carbs and either a vaccum advance or both advance > and retard from 1970-85 in the UK. The advance is a fuel saving and > drivability aid and the retard is an emissions aid. Disconnecting the > advance will adversely affect small throttle work but won't alter WOT > a jot. (Wide open throttle). Retard vacuum source is only present > when throttle plate is near closed. Sounds like mine has (or was intended to have) both > > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. > > I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing > depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. 18 mpg is an average figure over some months, so included all sorts of driving rather than just a run. Presumably disconnecting the vaccum advance/retard is just a part of by-passing the emmission bits and pieces. > > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that > > Do you mean pre vacuum retard? sounds like it > > 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it > > It doesn't contain a program; it's the same dizzy as points except it > has reluctance switching incorporated. Perhaps the US version is different. like i said, what goes on under the bonnet it pritty much a mistery to me, above it what was proposed to me as it was proposed - it wouldn't surprise me if the discription wasn't technically correct, but simply somthing I could relate to. > Best Regards, > Steve. > sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 08:24:15 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Internet message To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 9:14:19 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00672632.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 02, 94 1:00 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > >One artillery shell about the size of my forearm was found just 150yds > >from my neighbors house > > To wit...given da' Nige's long-range telekenitic powers, perhaps they were > *aiming* at him but missed. With the spontaneous clutch problems I'm > having now, maybe you could be so kind as to provide Nigel's _exact_ > latitude and longitude or grid coordiantes at this moment. To paraphrase > 'Joliet Jake' Blues, "we're on a (fire) mission from God." ;-) > > *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* > | | > | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | > | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | > | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | > *------------------------------------------------------* > > lat 41 deg 17' 30" long 73 deg 54' 04" rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 08:29:26 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk (Richard Jones) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 14:18:09 BST Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405051148.aa05914@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at May 5, 94 11:48 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO About the advance/retard on Rangeys > Sounds like mine has (or was intended to have) both > > > > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > > > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > > > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. > > > > I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing > > depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. > > 18 mpg is an average figure over some months, so included all sorts of > driving rather than just a run. Presumably disconnecting the vaccum > advance/retard is just a part of by-passing the emmission bits and pieces. > > > > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that > > > > Do you mean pre vacuum retard? > > sounds like it Disconnecting advance will lose mpg and drivability (unless you change the centrifugal advance too). Disconnecting retard will increase emissions but could improve mpg, notably around town. Time at 5ATDC with both connected or drop and plug the retard and time around 6BTDC, avoiding pinking. You'll need to trim the idle speed and mixtures in each case. The old pre-retard dizzys simply didn't have a retard port fitted and were as far as I could tell otherwise similar, so dropping the retard should still give you the correct curve for the engine - if anyone can verify/dispute this I'd love to learn more. I imagine the 8.25 and 8.13 engine have similar curves, but the 9.35 I'd expect to be different. I thought about removing the retard on mine, but I do find it gives a very soft action to the initial accelerator movement - a real boon when bouncing about off-road. Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you there. -- Best Regards, Steve. sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 09:33:20 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 09:22:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9405051318.AA19128@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at May 5, 94 02:18:09 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 608 Status: RO Steve Methley was bold enough to point out... >Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in >a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you >there. Steve, give us info (and opinions) on the v8 and lbc lists, please. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Thu May 5 09:46:40 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: was vacuum advance, now mail lists To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 5 May 94 15:45:01 BST Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405051422.AA16088@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at May 5, 94 9:22 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > Steve Methley was bold enough to point out... > >Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in > >a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you > >there. > > Steve, give us info (and opinions) on the v8 and lbc lists, please. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^: > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Ray, was that bold or bald? info: ^^^^ lbc means little british car, naturally:>) >You are now on the British cars mailing list digest, aka Scions of >Lucas (SOL) Send your mail to > > british-cars@autox.team.net > >Send address changes and such to > > british-cars-request@autox.team.ne The v8 list is really for TR8 owners: >INTRODUCTION >Good grief! :-) We now have 32 members on the TR8 mailing list. I worry >a little about that number since I'm not an "official, system-sanctioned" >mailing list. For those of you who are new to this list, the "mailing >list" is nothing more than a .forward file on a seldom-used (UNIX) account >of mine. (I'm not sure how much longer the systems guys are going to >tolerate me :-) We're actually a very well-behaved list and don't have >nearly the volume of most lists so I'm not going to worry... However, >keep in mind that this list is for discussion of TR7-V8/TR8 specific >things, i.e., things not appropriate for the BIG british-cars mailing >list. If you think people on the british-cars list might be interested in >your particular question or problem, you probably oughta post your >question there (or post to BOTH lists). > >USING THE LIST >Anyway, to mail things to the list, use the address > meeq462@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu >For any other correspondence, mail directly to me at > jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > opinions: ^^^^^^^^ Join the lbc list if you have anything other than a leaf sprung LandRover. Join the v8 list only if you run a Rover V8 !! -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 10:35:13 1994 Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 11:13:57 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Camel Trophy Results! Status: RO 2nd May, Day 17- Tierra del Plata, Chile The final set of special tasks began as night fell on Sunday, beginning with a 3.5 km orienteering run; participants had only a compass, map and a flashlight. "We have only a torch and a small map," said Ingo Paulsen of Germany. "The desert is a big place. I wouldn't want to get lost." Some teams set up a blistering pace; others got lost when their torches packed in, having to follow others back to camp. Once there, teams had to jump into the Discos for a two hour navigation task, based solely on the Terratrip computer. The afternoon's task, an 8 km orienteer course over rocky ground was delayed until after sunset due to the desert heat. Caution was the watch word, as the route involved steep drops and gullies, but even so, on of the Canary Islands team collapsed from exhaustion. 3rd May, Day 18- With temperatures climbing past 35 C, it was a day for heavy work at the special tasks: vehicle recovery from a deep gully, driving a tight figure 8 course on a 35 degree slope, a pair of timed hill climbs without the aid of a stopwatch, winching up a barren slope without anchor points, a natural obstacle course, and towing a Disco through a gully with the A-bar. The winching task was the most challenging, especially in the hard, rocky ground. "We broke three axe and pick handles digging that hole, and still it wasn't deep enough," said Mack Barber of the US team. Finishing one minute past the one-hour time limit, they accumulated no points for the task, though the following team took advantage of their work: The Spanish team dug the hole even deeper and winched up the 45 degree slope with ease. "It was comfortable just hanging there," said Carlos Martinez. I'll bet. The time trial involved one team member trying to match the other's run up a steep slope. Some used the beat of the windscreen wipers as a metronome, while the Swiss team recorded their first run and played it back on the tape to match the time exactly. Germany became the first team to roll a Disco while driving between events. Casualties started mounting: the team doctor worked most of the day to stabilize the stricken Canary Islander, one of the Greek team re-injured a knee originally hurt in the team selection trials in Turkey, Dogon Akoora or Turkey needed stiches in his forehead, one of the Holland team had a sliced finger super-glued back, while Mark Cullum of the UK slashed his palm. And now, drum roll please, the RESULTS. 4th May, Day 19- Though the Swiss team had been leading in the special tasks competition, the Spanish team edged them at the end with the Canary Island team finishing third. In team spirit, Spain took third, with the UK team of Damien Taft and Mark Cullum second in the voting. But none came close to the runaway first place finish by the popular pair from South Africa, Klaus Albert and Etienne van den Eeden, competing as that nation's first team and flying their new flag. In the overall standings, Spain finished first. "We were not prepared to win. This is such a surprise," said Carlos Martinez. "Even though we made a lot of mistakes in the special tasks, we still finished second overall and I'm shocked by the result, but it's absolutely fantastic," said Taft of the UK team. The Canary Islands finished thrid. Next year, the event (and subject to a pre-scout later this year) will begin and end in Belize, visiting Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador and Mexico as well. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 12:27:39 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Results! To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 11:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00687494.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 5, 94 11:13:57 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 198 Status: RO Thanks to Sandy Grice for the great Camel reports! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 21:17:06 1994 From: brianneily@aol.com Sender: "brianneily" To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 05 May 94 22:04:37 EDT Subject: Sign me up Status: RO Please sign me on to this fine mailing list. I own a 1964 Land Rover 88, my only vehicle and sole means of transportation. I am also a member of Bay State Rover Owners Association. Theank xou From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 09:26:41 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: the Competition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 6 May 94 15:11:28 BST Status: RO The 4X4 exhibits at the local County Agricultural Show,if not *quite* every 4X4 on sale over here,were certianly enough to draw at least one conclusion.That is,Land Rover *may* have competition,but it is faint and pursuing at best.Suzuki were not present as far as I could see,neither was Jeep. The new Izuzu Trooper has grown into the usual bulbous sided Japanese offering,and now resembles the Mitsubishi Shogun,neither of which look very capable of good off road performances.The Trooper is now marketed by Vauxhall over here.The barrel sides are a shame as far as the Trooper is concerned,because the previous model wasnt bad looking,and had a far more "open aspect" from inside than the present one.Suffocating is how I would describe the interiors of both these models. The less said about the Vauxhall Frontera the better.It looks low and wide,but probably isnt,but *is* gaudy.It does not present the appearance of a vehicle to be taken seriously at all. Now you can,so they say,with a Nissan,but not I think with their horrible new "little" 4X4,whether you buy it with the Nissan badge or the alternative Ford badge.Maverick,Ford call it,and it is perhaps the ugliest thing on four wheels I have seen in years.The problem is that the window line slopes *upwards8 at the back,just where you need to be able to place the vehicle when reversing.It presents a high,but narrow aspect,and I wouldnt wish to try it on anything of a sideslope.Popular in this neck of the woods at least it isnt,and if the number of people round it were anything to by that is a situation that is likely to continue.The Toyota 4 Runner is another "Japtank" on offer,that at first sight is difficult to identify from the Trooper and the Shogun.Like cars,the Jap 4x4's are beginning to all look the same. We draw a veil over the Rocsta.It looked better as a Jeep. The Lada stand,made a difference.The Niva Cossack(The tarted up version)I found rather over decorated for my taste outside,but was nicely appointed inside.The standard Niva has a pleasantly decal free exterior,but unfortunately the seats looked as though they may just last a fortnight. They would have been better sticking with vinyl.But overall,they are a pleasant "chunky" little vehicle,offering good visibility from inside. IMO they should dispense with the chrome (not much,but even a little is too much on an off roader).What is more,there were people looking at both the examples on display.It is a great shame they dont do a diesel version,and that the engine is only 1600cc(shades of the early S1).It really *does* need its towing capacity raising to where you could at least pull one horse with it. The Land Rover stand was,of course,the most,no,the ONLY crowded one. They had a Defender 90,Disco,and the LWB Range Rover on display.All LOCKED.That is the local agent for you.People had to go and *ask* for them to be unlocked so they could have look.What can you say about either the Rangey or the Disco?Its already been said.The 90 was interesting (I managed a sneak sit in this one,they had forgotten to lock it up again).This was the blind side hardtop version,Tdi,with, interestingly *three* front seats.It seems that the demands of the farming community have resulted in the reinstatement of the centre seat.The driving position hasnt changed,it felt the same as my 11A. I felt that the instrumentation could have been improved,it looks rather as though they chucked the instrumments at the dashboard, then drilled a hole where they landed.I remember thinking of a comment of Teriann's some time ago when she asked what had happened to the "workhorse" version of the Land Rover.Well,this was it,alive and well,but with a headlining now so you dont get condensation dripping down your neck.Vinyl seats in grey.The most noticeable difference from the driver seat is the height of the windshield, that extra couple of inches makes it a *much* more "airy" interior. The doors,too,shut with a nice solid "clunk",rather than the previous "clank".I got a tremendous impression that here was a SOLID machine, ready for hard work but comfortable,strong and *safe*.I want one! None of the vehicles on display could be driven,there simply wasnt room.Apart from Land rover and Lada,I didnt see a single soul round any other 4X4 on display all weekend. When you compare the Rover range with the others,the Japs look very, well,coarse,somehow.The shape *looks* heavy,and perhaps this is the intention,but unfortunately it comes across as just plain clumsy. By contrast the Rover look extremely competant,and sit well on their wheels.The little Niva is just cheeky. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 09:56:29 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: the Competition Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 15:42:26 UNDEFINED Status: RO >either the Rangey or the Disco?Its already been said.The 90 was >interesting (I managed a sneak sit in this one,they had forgotten to >"clank".I got a tremendous impression that here was a SOLID machine, >ready for hard work but comfortable,strong and *safe*.I want one! But theyre no longer anywhere near as field serviceable like teh series 3. Theyre SloaneWangeWova from the knees down, remember..... And you _really _ want to work on the TDi? Luckily I got in while you could still get the normally aspirated 2.5. I like mine, but I'd have had a series 3 if I had a choice of new ones. The best howler among the competition has to be the Tonka Hilux Diesel (if they havent fixed it by now!). When they came out, one of the testers in a mag went fording. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG! Diesels suck hard. The air intake was under the front wheelarch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Water doesnt compress too well. New engines cost a lot. Most ridiculous piece of design I've ever seen! Even dafter than the (aptly named) spoiler on the Wangewova Vagues. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 10:02:37 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 06 May 94 10:51:42 EST Encoding: 1160 Text To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, Mike Rooth Subject: Re: The One that Got Away Content-Length: 1131 Status: RO Mike writes: > I last saw the old girl about ten years later,parked outside the building > where I am now.I could have cried.The interior had benn tarted up to look > like,well nothing on earth.Now,of course,I coulnt afford it.I couldnt even > afford the number plate.CV 3360. Never look back. Once she's gone, she's gone. Favorite cars torture you enough when you own them...once they're out of your stable, you can't be responsible. Voice of hard experience. I sold *my* favorite sports car, a 1972 Volvo 1800E, (modern iron by this group's standards) and saw it 4 months later. Hadn't been washed since I had applied my hands to the finish and had a meter long scrape down the driver's fender :-( Still makes me sad to think of my car in that state. Never should have sold it... > I honestly didnt expect this to end up so long,nor did I intend it to > be.So I apologise in advance to anyone who has been bored mindless,by > what is,I suppose,largely an irrelevance.Sorry! Mike, keep it coming...Good stuff, equal to the Miscellaneous Ramblings in R&T by Peter whatever his name is. Lee llevitt@idcresearch.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 11:48:48 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 09:37:14 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: BANG! repair update Status: RO Land Rover repair update: Herstory: A week ago Sat. I was stopped at a stop sign. As I started to move there was a loud BAM and the clutch no longer disengaged. Pressing the clutch peddle to the floor, the clutch would spin enough not to kill the engine at a stop if you keep the revs up to about 2K. However you could not change gears with the engine running. I drove home by starting the engine in gear. Pulling the cover to the master clutch/peddle assembly showed that the upper mechanical linkage was working correctly. Pulling the passanger floor revieled that the lower linkage appeared to be working correctly but the lower mechanical linkage was only retracting about half way. meaning about half the travel was freeplay. Everything looked intact. Everything I could see looked like it was working properly, except that I had about half the slave cylinder movement as freeplay. Since it was raining and though I was wet from trying to diagnose the problem, I didn't feel like laying on my back in the mud wrenching on the car. So I put taking things appart untill the following weekend. Last weekend found me coming down with a bad cold, but I did get the drive shafts off, the seat pedistal and floors off, the emergency brake disconnected, the lower nuts off the bell housing. I was pulling one of the pins in the lower mechanical linkage when I noticed that it had broken off, twice. There was a recent break on the lower part where it came out from the connection collor, and an older break about 1/3 of the way down the hole from the head of the pin. The remaining part of the pin was in place still transmitted the movement from one shaft to the other. But the hole in the collar is a bit larger than the pin. Since I was aching all over, had a headache, hate pulling Land Rover transmissions, and starting to think I may not half too, I put things away & went bck into the house. Yesterday the parts I ordered came in. Right after work I poped a new pin in and bolted the slave cylinder back to the bell housing and gave it a try. Gosh Gee, the clutch worked! So this weekend, I will replace both pins, the collor, the bronze bushing and both felt washers in the lower linkage (I have a chronic case of ship wright's disease). Then I'll reassemble the rest of the car & hopefully be back on the road. Thankfully I will not have to spend all my time playing with the clutch. Maybe I'll have time to install the rebuilt TR3 steering box that also came via UPS yesterday. I always feel uneasy if only one of my British cars is working. I feel very uneasy when all three are on strike at the same time. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 12:20:43 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 11:07:16 -0700 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Urequited Love Status: RO I'm doing it. I know it's crazy...but I'm doing it. I've been been skulking on this mailing list for over a year now, but I've always felt like a bit of a fraud, not being a Land Rover _Owner_. But I figure being a Land Rover lover counts for something. I've been in love with Land Rovers as long as I've been in love with the opposite sex. My first real brush with both happened in Iceland in 1972. My father flew fighters for the U.S. Air Force and we were stationed in Iceland from 1972-1974. While I was there I developed a huge crush on Lisa Dickens, a lovely little minx who had the entire male population of our second grade class entranced. Lisa's father had a red Series IIa 88 that he was outrageously proud of. And because of its association with Lisa, I thought it was pretty keen too. One of the highlights of my life was riding on the rough dirt road to Hafnarfjordur with Lisa and I sitting in the rather uncomfortable back seat of the 88. As we jostled down the road, our shoulders would brush occasionally and we would giggle our heads off. (She would later claim that we exchanged a kiss on this trip. We most certainly did _not_. Trust me, I would have remembered it if we had...) Anyway, my love for Lisa went unrequited and, up to this point, so has my love of Land Rovers. But I'm hoping to remedy that. I live in Utah, where I know of only five Rovers in the state. (This number doesn't include the new Defender 90s and transients visiting Moab.) So, the odds of finding an old Series IIa for sale in this neck of the woods are fairly bad. I've kept a close eye on this list and the Rovers North mailers trying to find a suitable Rover for sale, but haven't had any luck. Either the vehicles are not what I'm looking for or the asking price seems very high. So, I've come to the conclusion that I might be better off going to the source. Let me explain... I'm looking for a 1967-1969 Series IIa 109 Station Wagon with a tropical roof and a frame that isn't going to have to be replaced for at least a few years. Such a vehicle is not an easy thing to find in the U.S. And despite what the FAQ says, the average going rate for such a vehicle in the heartland of the U.S. is about $6,000-$7,000US. So, I've been thinking. Since I'm having a hard time finding anything on this side of the pond, why not fly to England, purchase a vehicle there, and ship it back to the states? The theory being that for that same $6000 I can get a better vehicle (having more to choose from) and, as an added bonus, I get the novelty of right-hand drive. (A pain at drive-up windows, but think of the advantage in parallel parking.) Well, that's the theory. What's the reality? I've seen discussions about importing vehicles on this list in the past, but I haven't heard of anyone who has actually done it. I assume if I stay pre-1970 I should be able to get past the EPA and DOT restrictions. But here are a few basic questions: Are pre-1970 109's readily available in the U.K? I know that an 88 would be easier to find, but I've got my heart set on a 109. And here in the U.S., (which is probably _not_ a good indicator is this case) pre-1970 cars are not necessarily easy to find here. So, how does one go about finding one in the U.K.? I assume that the copies of LRO we get over here are a few months old by the time they arrive, so the classifies may not be of much use. Are there dealers in the U.K. that carry vehicles that old on a regular basis? What's the current going rate for such a vehicle? I'm budgeting around $800 for the plane ticket, and roughly $1200 for the shipping home. That leaves me $4000US for the vehicle. Is that enough for a respectable 109? Does have any comments or suggestions? I'd love to hear them. Again, I know its a crazy plan, but unrequited love can drive a man mad... Thanks in advance, Grettir P.S. You know, I could avoid all this and just build one from scratch! I'm joking, of course, but I wonder how much it would cost to just build a 109 from spare parts ordered from Merseyside and Rovers North? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 06:21:45 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: The One that Got Away To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 6 May 94 12:06:27 BST Status: RO On the face of it,this has bugger all to do with Land Rovers (again), except for the fact that the little MG J2 and the Rover are (or were) sisters under the skin.There is no vehicle around these days except the Land Rover that will happily accept bits and pieces from all sorts of sources,and still appear roughly original.Or,for that matter,that demand the same "backwoods" maintenance techniques in keeping them running.It seems strange that the first vehicle I ever owned,and the current one,were at the same time the oldest when I bought them,and gave rise to the greatest affection. The J2 was brought home towed behind Father's Jag.This was a 2.4 Litre Mk 1 SE,which lacked a Panhard rod on its back axle,and gave an entertaing bum wriggle whenever it took up the slack on the *very* long towrope. I wonder if a Range Rover without this item would do the same?I had no drivers licence at the time,so the MG was driven by an "Uncle".When I asked father why we had to use such a vast length of rope,his reply was "You dont think I want to be *seen* with you and that thing,do you?". Snob.The MG was pushed into the garage,and examined to see if it would start.No way.The battery was flat for a kickoff.This was located behind the seats in a sort of rack,and was very long and thin.It had to be.You coudnt get a normal battery *down* there.So it went on charge,and we examined the rest of my twelve quids worth.It had woodworm.Its the only car I've ever had to treat with Rentokil.Mind you,the woodworm was east (sorry,easy)to see,because there was no trim in the cockpit.There was a speedo(not connected)and an oil pressure gauge (ditto)and precious little else.Basic,you might say,if you felt polite.Under the gull wing bonnet was a (gulp) Ford eight side valve engine,with its attendant gearbox.This was a popular mod at the time for the following reasons. The original MG J2 engine was a little 948cc (I think) single OHC unit.The crank was a two bearing affair.One at each end.Well,what else? Unfortunately,when pressed,it tended to assume strange shapes in the middle,which upset things a bit.The overhead camshaft was driven,NOT by a belt,not even by chain,but by means of bevel gears on the crank, a vertical shaft in front of the engine,with more bevel gears at the top. Great.Except...the vertical shaft was the generator armature shaft,which in itself wasnt a bad idea,but we were even worse at oil seals then than we are now.So...oil leaked out of the cambox doooown the shaft,and drowned Joe Lucas in oil.The next model of MG,the PA solved these problems,the crank had a centre bearing and the dynamo was given a spinning disc to chuck the oil over the engine instead,but,in this one.....powered by Ford. To start the little beast.The battery was left to power the ignition only. The fuel pump was wired up to the battery charger(we always had BIG home made ones).A large 240V electric motor was hauled out of hiding,and a pulley attached.We made a straight starting handle (no crank)and put a pulley on *that* too.Drilled a hole in a block of wood,and feed the "starting" handle through the hole.Find a belt.Everything was switched on,including the motor. The belt was tensioned by pulling on the wood block.Five minutes later,it ran!The exhaust pipe was copper.What a lovely noise! So,having got a runner certain things had to be attended to.New ash frames for the door bottoms.Trim.This came from the viyl roofs of various scrapped Riley RMF 1.5 litre saloons.Free for the taking.I neede instruments,*and* the speedo had to be made to work.The instruments were taken from a scrapped .....wait for it...Rolls Royce Phantom 11.Temp gauge,ammeter with RR on them. Snob.The speedo is worthy of comment.It was *really* a rev counter.Made by Britsh Jaeger(Smiths?Who are they?),it had a clock type movement I never could fathom out and four scales on the face.RPM,speed in first gear,speed in second,and so on.The trouble was that it was driven off the gearbox originally (Vertical dynamo,dont forget so no take off *there*and no fan belt on the J2 engine,you relied on thermosyphon).I changed the Ford genny for one off a 2.5 litre SS Jaguar,with had a means of running the rev counter at the back.Then made a bracket and ran the speedo by means of a Hoover belt and two little pulleys.YOU try explaining to the assistant in a vacuum cleaner spares shop why you dont care *what* model it is,its got to be *this* length and NO longer. Brakes.Brother,were *these* fun.Trouble was,they were wire operated brakes. The hand and footbrakes worked off the same pedal shaft.The manual said brakes should be adjusted weekly.It was somewhat optimistic in this.The brakes HAD to be adjusted weekly,if not every other day.The manual,by the way,was a single large book,which detailed maintenance on *all* MG models,except the very rare Tiger,from the M Type Midget up to the TC Midget and its Magnette stablemate. Idea for Rovers?The handbrake was far more powerful tan the footbrake.Well it worked on the same shaft and had *much* more leverage,so emergency stops were slam down the foot and haul back the handbrake.One came to a leisurely halt. The handbrake was of the "flyoff" type.That is the ratchet worked backwards as it were.When you pulled it on there was no "click" but you pressed the huge knob on top to set it.To release,pull back,and let go.It flew off. Practically speaking you gave it a clout,and it released on its own.I ALWAYS parked in gear! Tyres.These were about 3.50 X 19,on wire wheels with eared knock off hub caps. I ran about 4.50 X 19 on the back,smaller on the front.The spare was on a rack strapped to the 14 gallon slab tank which was mounted externally at the back. Fuel level was determined by dipping the tank with the jack handle.Fuel gauges were cissy!The shockers were the old Armstrong type,really clutch discs of a sort,with two arms,one bolted to the chassis,one to the axle.Theoretically these could be adjusted by means of a through bolt in the middle,we *all* screwed them up tight and let the chassis do the flexing.The effect was fascinating on rough ground,since the radiator(seen at the end of that long bonnet)tended to lean one way,and the scuttle the other. The spring bushes were bronze,and the outer ends of the springs ran in slots in the front and rear cross members.These were lubricated with grease applied at remote nipples mounted on a row on the bulkhead,or firewall.*Very* civilised.The firewall was literally just that.When the bonnet was lifted you could see the engine one side of it,and your passengers legs,oooooooh! at the other. Suffice it to say that I never wanted to sell that car.PA engines and gearboxes were readily available at the time and would fit.As were hydraulic brakes off old Morris cars. I last saw the old girl about ten years later,parked outside the building where I am now.I could have cried.The interior had benn tarted up to look like,well nothing on earth.Now,of course,I coulnt afford it.I couldnt even afford the number plate.CV 3360. I honestly didnt expect this to end up so long,nor did I intend it to be.So I apologise in advance to anyone who has been bored mindless,by what is,I suppose,largely an irrelevance.Sorry! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 18:54:11 1994 From: spenny@aol.com Sender: "spenny" To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 06 May 94 19:43:16 EDT Subject: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. Status: RO I'm new to this mailing list & would like it if someone would post a list of frequently used acronyms (FUA) Rover some on overx Thanks - Spenny From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 19:25:25 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 20:18:19 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Well folks, TeriAnn has reported her good news, now if I may be so bold (and I *mean* bold) as to report the progress on my end, or should I say lack thereof..... Recall if you will that Nige broke yet another rear half axle, and that I am attributing his healthy appetite for axles to his nasty clutch "judder-while-you-shudder" problem. The axle and rear diff rebuild are first on my list....the clutch is *immediately* after that. Immediate is of course a relative term, but this Dixon guy is workin' on me (and all other LRO's in the area) to attend the OVLR b-day part. although it's a month away it has nonetheless set boundaries on the term "immediate". My last three weekends have not been spend beside my dearly beloved Nigel. Nope, not a cold, not raining, no mud (only horse manure, remember?). However, I have had other obligations, like catching some badly needed RandR with my fly rod, and dredging a local swimming hole and doing reparations to an old dam (listing this latter task is intended to not only make a good excuse for not progressing on Nigel's woes, but is also intended to shed some guilt on my brother, Frederic, who is another lurker on this list.....Fred-hope you're feeling mighty guilty right about now. The _whole world_ knows that you once again failed to help me out with this annual task.). ok, enough with the excuses. Last night, after failing once again to catch a trout, I assembled tools, rags, drain pans, etc. and began to remove my broken axle and rear diff. Normally, this is a half-hour job (in US and/or farenheit hours, that is, with sips of cold frosty included). Not this time. Oh, all was drained and the good axle removed in record time, but the busted side just won't come out. Now you're wondering, and I can hear the "tisk tisk tisks" out there, and "yes" is the answer to your question. I _was_ dumb enough to drive with a busted axle without first removing it _and_ the rear prop shaft, despite the fact that I "know better". (I told you this would be a bold statement, didn't I?? So much for what little good reputation I had left....) Once again, the choice was to leave it there, unattended, with all its loadings (this time it had my friend's brand new $500 barbie in it, a weber "celestrial 1000", with four sets of burners. Boy does it cook a good bbq chicken!), or to take a chance. Unlike last time, when upon draining the rear end I was delighted to find not a spec 'o metal, this time was a different story.... it was the anticipated "metalflake oil". Uh, oh. I plan to do the bearings anyway (hence the just drive it attitude), and can only hope the gears survived. So now I have this stuck axle in the casing problem. Having not yet retrieved it, I am unsure of whether driving it made my situation any worse. It could've been bent badly to begin with, or driving it could've mushroomed the end a bit. I tried prying it out (put the drive flange partially on and pryed from behind... boy can that thing take a beating without showing so much as a scratch on the mated surface....impressive), and also tried placing some solid plates of metal behind the drive flange, resting them against the rim and the lug nuts, then cranking on the nut on the axle shaft itself to extract it out. No dice. I stopped as I began to strip the threads. I contemplated using a "suitable drift" to bang it out from the other side......but it'll have to be an excessively long one.... a good solid piece of stock iron perhaps, but it has to snake itself in there without doing too much (ie any) damage. Tough. Not gonna work if mushrooming is my problem....probably only make it worse. Charlie at RN had the following suggestions. 1) a slide hammer might do the trick (I also thought this might do it, but I'll be needing an awfully big slide hammer). 2) put the drive flange on backwards, place a good chain around it, and yank it out using another vehicle. Hmmm. Perhaps it is time to break out the ol '39 9N for this job. I wonder what will give first......the half axle, bust the chain, the drive flange, the axle casing (yikes), the tractor hitch????? Boy, this sounds like fun. Place your bets, folks, and I'll give you an update in a day or two. While I was on the phone to RN, I was discussing the costs of doing a rear diff rebuild. Assuming that all I need is bearings (the gears _were_ in excellant shape at last look, but who knows how good or bad they are now that ignoramous himself drove on a busted axle), parts alone come to about $80 US. However, the inner pinion bearing is NLA for a SII and I was told that one from a SIIa will NOT work in its place.....but maybe I could track one down somewhere. So let's say $100 ish in bearings, if I can be so fortunate as to locate the NLA one. I also figured I'd be needing a hefty assortment of shims. I was then advised that special tools were required, and as I began to think it over, I decided I oughta have it done either by RN or by the more local Roverworks folks. Ok. So I figure around $200 US is probably a realistic figure (assuming I need no gears). Then Chris (from RN) informs me of their newest special.....brand new rear diffs just so happen to be on sale this month, folks. In my parts book they go for $1250 US new. They were selling these (they have a dozen or so left) for a mere $395. Brand spankin' new. Can Merseyside beat this, I wonder??? Why wonder, I thought to myself- for $200 more than the cost of a rebuild I could go brand new and have a spare. I splurged. Nigel will have a quiet rear end. This does, of course, place an added sense of urgency on my clutch problem, since the last thing I want to do is to lunch and axle in a brand new diff. Needless to say (perhaps not), I'll be toting along the required tools for an axle extraction from now on. Feeling mighty bold (and stupid), rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:13:02 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: first stuck in the mud From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 10:01:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Kurt, who is on this list, has the honour of being the first on that I know of to be stuck in the mud this spring. He phoned me up and asked if I had any experience freeing stuck LRs and if I had any equipment he could borrow. I gathered up the Jack-all, chain, tow strap, cables, traction bars. My Land Rover is still in pieces *sob*. I borrowed my sister's Sable and off we went. When we got there, Kert's Land Rover was stuck down a section of raod road that was between two normal roads, one of which was the gravel bed of a highway in construction, now on hold, that Kurt was trying to get to. Well, beside any highway, there is a drainage ditch, which is exactly where he was stuck. When he told me he was stuck, he neglected to tell me that there was an inch of water over the mud. Attempt one. The theory was to lift the front wheels off the ground and push the truck over on the jack to get a new footing. The jack just sunk into the mud, with me saying " it has to hit something sometime". I was wrong. Canadian mud is very thick and has great suction. It took us half an hour to just get the jack out of the mud. Attempt two. Toe strap around a fence post, attached to one end of Jack-all, chain attached ot other end and to truck, and jack. this works like a manual 8000 pound winch. It took two of us to haul on this thing, and two lengths on the jack, and we pulled it out. We also moved the fence post five inches. This all before sunset, so I got pics. Looking at that mud, anyone could have got stuck there. The only casualty were my boots, which were full of water. They will dry. Since it was not my LR that was stuck, I had a pretty good time. Dale -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:11:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: acronyms From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 19:39:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Ok, Off the top of my head without loading this up elsewhere and dumping it in like the rest of you do, obviuosly, so excuse the lay out or get a life. 88" or 88 is a short wheel base Land Rover, otherwise described as an SWB LWT is a shortening of lighweight which is refering to the military version of the 88, also can be called 1/2 ton military or airportable to name a couple. 109 is the or 109" is the longwheel base land rover, as in 88, 109 refers to the on centre distance from centre of axles front to rear. Note that this holds true for 101's and 109 FC's(later) AND 110 FC's and 110's but 90's are not 90 inches are neither are 130's, they are mere factory rounded up numbers to the nearest unit of ten. FC refers to a forward control driving position, sometime a factory modification as in the 109, 110 and 101 but outside company as in the redwing or carmichael I think you'll find. 101's were soley produced for the military market and were designed as a gun (105 mm towed) tractor. Rover V8, one of the best ever produced from solihull most people will agree. wheels in the corners and goes like stink. Very intimidating in city traffic. Flat fronted. Some variants come with frame rail side mounted winch, deployable front or rear. 109 FC was a factory produced answer to a marketplace cry for more carrying capacity and space, Superseded by the 110FC. I'll leave these two variants alone as they are common In NA as hens teeth. S1, S2 / SII, S2a / SIIA, S3 / SIII, refer to series variants, produced first as Land Rovers and then became S1's when the S2's were introduced if you follow. 90's and 110's and 130's are current production variants. RR or Rangey or aby phonetic variation thereof refer to Range Rovers, top of the line iin the tri product listing from Land Rover presently. Disco refers to Discovery which is the mid placed in the trio and is placed lower than the range rover in the market place target ed buyers. 2.25L refers to the standard engine for many years fitted to land rovers. earlier vehuicles did have smaller engines. 6cyl refers to a six cylinder ebgine which is much maligned by alot of land rover so called enthusiasts. V8 was originally a North American engine until the thing was bough t outright by the factory for their own use. has lasted a long time and has been fiited to anumber of products as original engines, P/U refeers to the body style, this is a pick-up. ST / HT soft as in canvas top. Hard as in Aluminum top. O/D overdrive unit. PTO power take off, multi position on the land Rover. SW refers to station wagon body style. somewhat unique in that it is devoid of the bulkhead behind the front seats. Can be fitted with a tropical roof, basical a spaced secondary roof to allow circulation of air between the two and reduce heta build upin vehcile. Truck cab refers to a hard ( aluminium) cab that encloses the front seat area only on a pick up. usefull to give drive weather protection but leave cargoi box open for access to load, such as feed for animlas that you may want to get at. well that does it for my impromptu list, over to the engine department I think. Oh one more, NADA, this stands for North American dollar Area and refers to a factory designation of America and canada for the purpose of manufacture and sales. Commonly coupled with 109sw to produce NADA 109 SW. Unique beast. More later. Come back with more why dont you folks out there, dont be shy. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:12:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 20:06:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The big list of acronyms is from Robin carig in Ottawa in case you could not tell by the header, sorry about that. Rgds RObin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:13:06 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 20:07:25 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Was out today at the local big stamp show, trying to pick up some more Land Rovers in the philatetic variety. Yes I know I collect the strangest stuff, but they are all land Rovers. I do have an article in with Land Rover Owner so be aptient and all will be revealed shortly. I did get a nice surpise today though, found for the first time a 90 in stamp form with a nifty/neat tab attached with the company logo on it. cost a whopping $8.45 for the set of 6 stamps but these stamp people only sell in sets. so I bought a couple to get my sets going, working on building a few setsup fo gifts/ myself etc. The show is on for another day tommorrow and is free addmission so I'll be back on Sunday. Did I ever mention that I have some Land Rover Postcards aswell, quite the cleptomaniac at times you know. Guess I'll have to amned that article to stay current on the latest aquisition though, Rgds Rbin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 8 01:28:05 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. To: spenny@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 00:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061943.tn237604@aol.com> from "spenny@aol.com" at May 6, 94 07:43:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6549 Status: RO < I'm new to this mailing list & would like it if someone would post a list of < frequently used acronyms (FUA) < < Rover some on overx < < Thanks - Spenny You mean these?-- Acronym Dictionary AE In Any Event BTW By the way FWIW For what it's worth FYI For Your Information IAE In any event IANAL I Am Not A Lawyer, also IANA... such as CPA IMO In my opinion IMHO In my humble opinion IMCO In my considered opinion IOW In other words NFW No [bleeping] Way NRN No Reply Necessary OTOH On the other hand PITA Pain in the ass ROFL Rolling on floor laughing. RSN Real Soon Now [which may be a long time coming] RTFM Read the Fine(?) manual SNAFU Situation Normal: All [bleeped] Up SITD Still in the dark TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Than A Free Lunch TIA Thanks In Advance (also AtDhVaAnNkCsE) TIC Tongue in cheek TLA Three Letter Acronym (such as this) _________________________________________________________________________ Smilely Dictionary Like prehistoric cave dwellers, the devotees of electronic bulletin-boards and "e-mail" have struggled to find a new way to express themselves. Wall painting would not work. Words, it seems, are not enough. Inarticulate sounds cannot be displayed on screens. To make their messages feel more like personal contact, they have hit on using the punctuation marks on an ordinary keyboard in order to pull faces at each other. To read these signs, you have to put your head on your left shoulder. The basic unit is: :-) the "smiley", a standard smiling face. In context, this can mean "I'm happy to hear from you", or other pleasantries. The smiley can also wink: ;-) or frown: :-( among other things. The language can express many things about the user's appearance: 8-) :-{) :-Q @:-) These signs mean, respectively, that the user wears sunglasses, has a moustache, smokes, wears a turban. The smiley can also indicate some subtleties of mood and response: :-D :-/ :-e :-7 :-X These mean that he is laughing, is sceptical, is disappointed, is wry, is keeping his lips sealed. Many of the signs (perhaps the majority in use on America's biggest computer networks) are simply absurd fun, verging on the unintelligible: :-F *:o) +-:-) @= The user is a buck-toothed vampire with one tooth missing, is a clown, holds religious office, is pro-nuclear. The hieroglyph of our title means that the user is a drunk, devilish chef with a toupee in an updraft, a moustache and a double chin. Now you know what electronic mail is used for. The Unofficial Smilie Dictionary -------------------------------- :-) Your basic smilie. This smilie is used to inflect a sarcastic or joking statement since we can't hear voice inflection over Unix. ;-) Winky smilie. User just made a flirtatious and/or sarcastic remark. More of a "don't hit me for what I just said" smilie. :-( Frowning smilie. User did not like that last statement or is upset or depressed about something. :-I Indifferent smilie. Better than a Frowning smilie but not quite as good as a happy smilie :-> User just made a really biting sarcastic remark. Worse than a :-). :-> User just made a really devilish remark. ;-> Winky and devil combined. A very lewd remark was just made. Those are the basic ones...Here are some somewhat less common ones: (-: User is left handed %-) User has been staring at a green screen for 15 hours straight :*) User is drunk [:] User is a robot 8-) User is wearing sunglasses B:-) Sunglasses on head ::-) User wears normal glasses B-) User wears horn-rimmed glasses :-{) User has a mustache :-{} User wears lipstick {:-) User wears a toupee }:-( Toupee in an updraft :-[ User is a Vampire :-E Bucktoothed vampire :-F Bucktoothed vampire with one tooth missing :-7 User juust made a wry statement :-* User just ate something sour :-)~ User drools :-~) User has a cold :'-( User is crying :'-) User is so happy, s/he is crying :-@ User is screaming :-# User wears braces :^) User has a broken nose :v) User has a broken nose, but it's the other way :_) User's nose is sliding off of his face :<) User is from an Ivy League School :-& User is tongue tied. =:-) User is a hosehead -:-) User is a punk rocker -:-( (real punk rockers don't smile) :=) User has two noses +-:-) User is the Pope or holds some other religious office `:-) User shaved one of his eyebrows off this morning ,:-) Same thing...other side |-I User is asleep |-O User is yawning/snoring :-Q User is a smoker :-? User smokes a pipe O-) Megaton Man On Patrol! (or else, user is a scuba diver) O :-) User is an angel (at heart, at least) :-P Nyahhhh! :-S User just made an incoherent statement :-D User is laughing (at you!) :-X User's lips are sealed :-C User is really bummed :-/ User is skeptical C=:-) User is a chef @= User is pro-nuclear war *<:-) User is wearing a Santa Claus Hat :-o Uh oh! (8-o It's Mr. Bill! *:o) And Bozo the Clown! 3:] Pet smilie 3:[ Mean Pet smilie d8= Your pet beaver is wearing goggles and a hard hat. E-:-) User is a Ham radio operator :-9 User is licking his/her lips %-6 User is braindead [:-) User is wearing a walkman (:I User is an egghead <:-I User is a dunce K:P User is a little kid with a propeller beenie @:-) User is wearing a turban :-0 No Yelling! (Quiet Lab) :-: Mutant Smilie The invisible smilie .-) User only has one eye ,-) Ditto...but he's winking X-( User just died 8 :-) User is a wizard C=}>;*{)) Mega-Smilie... A drunk, devilish chef with a toupee in an updraft, a mustache, and a double chin Note: A lot of these can be typed without noses to make midget smilies. *********************************************************************** Or do you mean these?-- LR Land Rover LRO Land Rover owner T. F. Mills (JALRO) tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:11:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Some sadenning news... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 04:52:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO > Well folks, TeriAnn has reported her good news, now if I > may be so bold (and I *mean* bold) as to report the progress > on my end, or should I say lack thereof..... Some very sad news from this end of the tundra. A Land Rover (late Series IIA, 88 pick-up) broke up in two while being towed from a site near Ottawa. Land Rover bits down quite a bit of roadway... A damage assessment will have to take place to see how bad the damage is from the vehicle folding in two. The parts supply might just get streatched in getting some of the mid pieces off of one of the parts vehicles. However, the other three (and maybe a fifth in the next couple of days) all made it to another OVLR member's storage site at his farm. I guess this brings me to four Land Rovers (I own the "half" of these four, two 88's and two 109 pick-ups) Not too bad for an afternoons work... :-) Condition reports to follow... As per Birthday Party details, they are ready, but sitting in Word Perfect format right now. Soon... :-) OVLR is planning at least another two overnight off-road journeys this summer/fall, one to ke down a power cut that is apparently quite excellent. The lack of RN and ABP events has us a bit busy up here. Rgds, Dixon PS. When did Rover change the distributor shaft in the old style Lucas distributor?. There are two types. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 8 22:38:40 1994 Date: Sun, 8 May 94 23:30:24 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Nigel update........ Saturday, Nigel and I got a late start-had to finish off work on the dam first (more guilt for ya, Fred). By mid afternoon it was time to yank that busted half shaft outa the axle casing. Tried removing the diff first on the odd chance that the half shaft was broken in just the right place. It wasn't. Next was tried a BIG ROCK (and a comealong w/chain), with the drive flange affixed backwards on the half shaft for extra grab- ability. No go. What was needed was a good heavy jerk. So we fired up the 9N, got the two perpedicularly aligned and attached by thick heavy chain (w/an old tire threaded in for added protection should something go flying), and we yanked. And yanked. And.....I began to wonder, as I watched the nearside tires bulge and the farside tires lift, how much was it gonna take?? How much before Nige tips over?? How much before the tires roll off the rims?? How much before the chain breaks?? One or two heavy yanks later it let go-the shaft was out. The diff was then easily removed. Fortunately, no broken teeth....gears appear to be in fine shape. Set it aside as a spare, as the new one ($395 US) should arrive UPS on monday. (You may call it overkill but I call it a bargin...until Dixon tells me Merseyside sells them _brand_new for $350). Moved my butt to the passenger compartment, and started in on the floors and seatbox. Cold frosty time settled in rather quickly..... Sunday, the trek to the tranny and cruise to the clutch was finished off. The plan was to move the tranny back about a half foot, and not completly remove it from the vehicle, so the Fairey had to go. Once all was ready, and the bell housing supported by wood on the cross member, the task of backing that tranny up began. Wasn 't quite sure just where to put the jack.....no one place seemed good to hold it all. Choices were up front, at the right side of the transfer case (lowest point), or on the left rear. With added wood under the rear cross member the front spot was chosen. All was well for the actual extraction phase, but as the tranny moved back things got a little hairy (I am single handed at this point). With some finesse, and using all four limbs on my body, the tranny was secured, help was summoned, and the jack and a jackstand were relocated to either side of the transfer case. The clutch was then removed in short order. The friction plate appears to be relatively new, but I', not sure if it's OEM (it is an english make, Borg-Beck if I remember correctly; both names reminiscent of aftermarket american companies, Borg-Warner and Beck-Arnley.....perhaps there's a connection??). Both the flywheel and the pressure plate are pretty scuffed up-not scored, but scuffed. Neither was evenly buffed clean and shiny like I suppose it should be. Haven't yet measured the flywheel run-out, nor the pressure plate thickness. The clutch withdrawl unit appears to be working normally. There's a tad of oil around, which appears to have come from the transmission, but not much-just a trace on the bottom of the bell housing. Me wonders if this oil is to blame for my woes, and if a smidgen of oil on the mating faces of the friction plate could've burned on the pressure plate and the flywheel and left the scuff marks. There doesn't appear to be enough to fly around. The mating surfaces themselves are dry and free of any oil. Hmm. Nigel's clutch judder symptoms were as follows: Upon starting in either first or reverse it was as though there was no rub to the clutch....as soon as it engaged full power was delivered to the rear end and most often he literally bounced to a start. Not good for the motor mounts, U-joints, rear axles, nor any gear in between. Clutch itself (as opposed to master and slave hydraulics) was felt at the pedal only after the slave cylinder reached about half its travel........this makes me wonder if the operating levers on the clutch were adjusted correctly (which can be checked but haven't yet). Some specific questions for those of you kind helpful souls who are still with me: a) should the friction plate and flywheel surfaces be perfectly clean and evenly polished as I presume? b) should the entire bell housing be dry as a bone, or can some amount of oil seepage into it be tolerated? c) can I replace the withdrawl bearing while the tranny is moved back, or will I need to take it out first? Is it worth the effort? (Do I want to do this again??) I am tempted to replace both the friction and pressure plates, maybe even the clutch springs as well. I've got this classic case of fip shitters disease, and having been three years from the grad student/postdoc scene I now have holes where my wallet used to be. Nige would love me for it. (Next I'll have to re-return to the swivel pin housings and replace those cones and springs with Railco bushes.....Nigel's other persistant problem is a left front wheel wobble ya get when ya hit bumps just wrong, and its been traced to a cone that doesn't exactly fit its shaft just right.) Thanks in advance, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 06:04:58 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Urequited Love To: grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Mon, 9 May 94 11:54:50 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061807.AA07636@keflavik.wordperfect.com>; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at May 6, 94 11:07 am Status: RO You might just manage what you want for the money,depending on the exchange rate.109" machines are generally less popular over here,so rend to fetch a bit less money.(I'm open to contradiction on that statement,though). Whilst the classified ads in LRO are probably,as you say,out of date,you might consider getting in touch with some of the more reputable "dealers",like,for instance,Warwick 4X4.This particular firm springs to mind,because I beleive they have been known to handle the entire export package in the past.It just *may* be a cheaper way to do it,or you could put your air fare towards the vehicle,thus having a bit more to spend on it.I can look up their phone no if you like.I might add that personally I,ve had nothing to do with them,but they *do* seem to have a good reputation. Any help? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 06:48:05 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Acronyms To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 9 May 94 12:32:38 BST Status: RO I think you've about covered the lot,Robin.Except for FWH,used for Free Wheel Hubs,used to disconnect the front wheels from the driveline when on road.And Land Rover's very own,quaint,LHstng and RHstng (or is it stg?),for Left hand and Right hand steering. Also,when tackling the ills that the beast is heir to,WW or Whit stands for Whitworth threads,so 1/4" Whit refers to the *shank* size of the bolt,*not* the head.When it aint Whit,its A/F.So all right,the purist *could* argue that B.A is also present,but the size is so small you will have lost the spanner anyway....... Personally,I use pliers on these,the Stillsons wont go down that far. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 07:40:53 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: spenny@aol.com, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405080618.AA11733@diana.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO we also used the following acronyms... F.M. - fine (?) magic BTFOM - beats the (bleep) outa me (these were quite common in our computer room and i find they come in handy when i'm describing rover related issues as well...) jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 07:48:24 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:36:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: first stuck in the mud To: Dale Desprey Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Is being the first stuck in this year's mud the sort of thing one brags about? If so, I may win since i was stuck in my driveway a good six weeks ago. My winch wouldn't engage and i was all set to go back to the barn for my come-a-long when some ice fishermen happened by and with a side comment of "i thought these things didn't get stuck" pulled me out. jan (who gets stuck in the quick-mud of my driveway nearly once every spring...) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 09:56:56 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 07:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Oil Filters To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should know about? Thanks... James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From ccray Mon May 9 10:19:31 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:19:31 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2371 Status: RO ccray was bold enough to point out... From ccray Mon May 9 10:18:38 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1528 James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:33:20 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1527 Status: RO James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:41:03 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Oil Filters (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:19:31 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2370 Status: RO ccray was bold enough to point out... >From ccray Mon May 9 10:18:38 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1528 James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:45:02 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 94 11:34:14 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO few more acronyms for ya... some fave suppliers: RN Rovers North AB Atlantic British BP British Pacific CT Canadian Tyre (where Canadians get everything from snow mobile suits t to sparkplugs. Usually located right beside the beer store.) and I s'poze some of my faces may need explaining: *:o Me with my funky doo (you have to see it freshly mowed to get the full effect) after breaking yet another half axle. *:[] Me with my funky doo struggling solo with my tranny. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 14:54:52 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 15:42:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: BANG! repair update To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061637.AA08455@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The gods must be crazy, but they sure are smilin' on YOU!!! GOOD SHOW!!!! steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 15:42:54 1994 Date: Mon, 09 May 1994 16:15:42 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Grettir's Unrequieted Love Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson writes with questions about importing early Rovers. One of our club members, Robert Davis, has been doing this regularly. He has a friend in the UK keep an eye out at estate auctions and whatnot. 500 quid rolls it onto a boat in Liverpool bound for Portsmouth (VA). Portsmouth is an excellent destination - large enough so that virtually all shipping lines call there, but individual vehicle importation is practically non-existant so the vehicle won't get "lost" in the shuffle. Some have in NY. One of Robert's recent acquisitions was a '64 RHD diesel PU with about 20k on the clock (900#s at the auction). Import duties were $18.23. Have cash and exact change...though the customs office takes in millions each day, they don't have a petty cash drawer! Basically any vehicle built before 1/1/68 can be brought in unmodified... no DoT or EPA worries. Diesels in service before 1/1/74 can also come in, if they meet safety regs (belts, lights, glass, etc.) The one problem with RHD vehicles that is tough to overcome is passing trucks on two lane roads (nip out for a quick peek, get scared shitless by the sight of on-rushing traffic, nip back in). Then again, swapping a II or early IIa vehicle over to LHD isn't that big a deal...just labor intensive. A SIII would be a nightmare though. Unless you have someone on the other side of the pond looking out for deals (like Robert does), it may be easiest to deal with one of the major companies advertising in LRO. Another (soon-to-be) club member bought a 101 FC Rapier missile tractor, had PRB disassemble and crate it. You can bring just about anything in as *parts*, especially if you have a title to a junker somewhere, 'cause you ain't going to get a title to just parts. Have you taken a look at this months' Hemming's? Two dozen or more LR's scattered about the country, with several out west. As long as we're on the subject of 109's, do the 109-regular versions have a different gearbox ratio than the SW models? Robert's newest acquisition from the UK hauls butt, even w/o an overdrive; my brother's former '66 used to do the same. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 22:41:51 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rudolph has to wait From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:23:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Oh Well! Bonjour! I'm back in Ottawa for the summer and I plan to drive Rudolph as often as I can. In order to do that, though, I have to get it insured! The last quote that I got was at 1300$ (Can) one-side, no theft fire (that is important for a british vehicle owner) or vandalism....Hmmm, time to do more shopping. I took Rudolph out for a ride around the block, having offered my Dad to sit in the passenger's seat of the famous beast. Well, the ride lasted 34 seconds, just enough time to see some fumes coming out of the dash. I am now busy at fixing the problem. (I did find the short). So today, I will be changing Rudolph rear springs. Let's just say that the thirty year old springs did see better days. When the Pick-up bed is empty, the leafs are horizontal. There's no more camber!Now I have a tricky question for you dudes and dudettes: I have ordered two set of rear springs from Merseyside for Rudolph and for the 109 Station Wagon. In each of the two sets, there is one that has a greater camber. What should I do? Make two identical pairs of springs (one pair being a bit lower than the other) or stick with what was sent, one higher spring on each vehicle. And if I choose the latest, On what side does wich spring go? Remember, it's a Left hand drive. Thanks in advance, Rudolph will truly appreciate. Hopefully, he will lose his snobbish attitude, it's nose always pointing in the air.. Michel Bertrand and Rudolph (1963 109 PU), Ottawa, Canada -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 00:57:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Urequited Love From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 18:23:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > You might just manage what you want for the money,depending > on the exchange rate.109" machines are generally less > popular over here,so rend to fetch a bit less money.(I'm open > to contradiction on that statement,though). I hear the 101's are dropping in price. The cost of petrol risen lately? I'd love a 101, but really can't swing the expense at this time. A chap near Ottawa who has a pair of them has recently decided to put one of them back on the road. Hopefully it will be soon enough to see on in action off-road... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 18:46:29 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Land Rover for sale To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 9 May 94 19:39:22 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hello Beautiful People: I saw a good looking series III at Ft. Meyer, Va. with a "for sale" sign in the window. I called the number and talked to the owner, who is not on the net. I told him that I would put it on the list to see if anyone is interested. The following is his description of the vehicle. 1972 Series III 88 engine - 4000 miles on professional Rovers North rebuild safari top & custom roof rack frame in "good condition" new cloth seats twin fuel tanks Fairey overdrive free wheeling hubs bull bar new michelin 15" xch4 tires has invested $11,400. (has receipts) asking $9,400. owner: Steve Deguire Arlington, Va. Phone 703-671-4831 After I described the lro email list and the wealth of LR expertise, outrageous LR stories, etc. , he thinks he'll buy a computer just to join up. Tom Coron King George, Va. 66 IIa RHD P.S. Note to Mike Rooth - I too enjoy the different names, expressions etc. between the 2 continents, but must admit that I sometimes have trouble translating those quaint British expressions; i.e., "horsebox", etc. How about an "English to North American" dictionary? ;-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 00:57:25 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: US Rangers find SOV best for their needs. From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 21:03:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Good day folks & Robin... This just happened across my desk at work. It is from the Issue # 9, 1994 of Land Rover World. You might be interested in this particular article. Our first picture of the Ranger Special Operations Vehicle (RSOV), built by Land Rover, shown in action with the United States Army's elite 75th Ranger Regiment. The Ranger Regiment is a key part of the US Army's Special Operations Command based at Fort Bragg, North Caroline. The mission of the Regiment is "to plan and conduct special military operations in support of the US policy and objectives." Ranger capabilities include: "infiltrating and exfiltrating by land, sea or air; conducting direct action operations; raids; recovering personnel and/or special equipment; and conducting light infantry operations in a conventional or special operations environment." The mobility, reliability and airportability of their RSOV's is a crutial factor. Rangers are required to be ready to deploy anywhere in the world within four hours - fully trained and equiped for operations. Public Affairs Officer Lt Col Kenneth McGraw explained the background to the acquisition of the new vehicle to Land Rover World. He said it followed a market survey for a dedicated Ranger vehicle in early 1990, which recommended the Land Rover Defender 90 and 110, the Austrian Pinzguaer and the standard US Army HMMWV as the candidate vehicles. "Extensive testing and an Integrated Logistics Support analysis were completed to determine which vehicle would best meet the requirements for the RSOV. "Modification drawings and all required procurement data were assembled, and a contract was awarded for the Land Rover 110 on 19 July 1991. Fielding for the RSOV began in February 1992 and was completed in July 1993." Col McGraw said the diesel-powered, light special operations vehicle, which replaces modified MI5I Jeeps, comes in three configurations; a weapons carrier, a communications vehicle (SHARK), and a logistics/medical vehicle. Each Ranger battalion is equipped with 15 RSOV's - 12 weapons carriers, two communications variants and one logistics/medical vehicle. The standard vehicle has a width of 70.5 inches, a height of 79 inches, length of 175 inches, and a ground clearance of 10 inches. It will accomodate a generous payload. The weapons carrier is capable of firing a 50 calibre machine gun, M60 machine gun, and MK19 granade launcher. The vehicle is capable of fitting into a CH-47 and CH-54 helicopter and a C-130, C-141 and C5A aircraft. "The RSOV was also tested for sling load operations with an MH-47D and was flown successfully to 140 knots for the dual hook-up and 100 knots for a single point hook-up." Col McGraw revealed. He said the RSOV was also suitable for the single point sling loading with the UH-60. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 00:57:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Grettir's Unrequieted Love From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 22:09:00 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Have you taken a look at this months' Hemming's? Two dozen or more LR's > scattered about the country, with several out west. Have you seen the prices attached to them? Unbelievable... > As long as we're on the subject of 109's, do the 109-regular versions have > a different gearbox ratio than the SW models? Robert's newest acquisition > from the UK hauls butt, even w/o an overdrive; my brother's former '66 used > to do the same. To my knowledge, there is no difference. However, Bruce Ricker's 109 PU hauls ass, while my 109 just drags down the highway... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 00:57:09 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: first stuck in the mud From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 22:14:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > Kurt, who is on this list, has the honour of being the first on that I > know of to be stuck in the mud this spring. I just got off the phone with George. He tried the OVLR mud route this weekend with JJ. Not only didn't he even get near the water canal at the rock face, he doesn't believe that we can get near the canal at this time. Looks like this is going to be really good in June... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 01:35:44 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 00:54:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO People, come on now, stupid faces. YUK. Much more of that and I amouta here. I thought this net was free of that junk, enough said eh? Quick somebody pay Jan's OVLR membership and she could be in the running for the prestigious LUGNUT award. Fancy that, renowned Land Rover Owner stuck in her drive!!!!!!! I thought the critters beside the raod looked real nervous when I drove around Alta Vista (Neighbourhood in Ottawa) last night. Now I know why, Bertrand is back in town! Lord love us! Was reading the Robb Report, a magazine for wealthy lifestyles or some such notion. Saw an add for the Merc G Wagen. Only a hundred to be imported to US this year. Somewhere else in the mag was a supposed write up of the vehicle. $116,000 bucks US, HA! You must be outa ya mind! Just think what you could buy from solihull for that kind of dosh. Well, I am just ironing out the wrinkles in the great Land Rover travelling display, this is proving to be more complicated every minute. Andy Graham, co toy collector and I are going down to Mississauga next week, I am attending the Discovery launch. Andy will probably go to Lester B. Pearson to photograph the planes. the day before we will be setting up a display of the joint toy collection that we have. No doubles, just the best we have, including some range rovers. When I suggested the idea to Land Rover Canada they were amazed thsat somebody would collect toys of the vehicle! Well they aint seen nothing yet! I wouldnt miss this trip for the world. There will be more toys in their show area than even I could have imagined that one could find when I first started doing this years ago. Kind of a "Coals to Newcastle" eh Mike Rooth?!!!! Well, must be orf, TTFN Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 02:06:23 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: ranger@sloth.ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Allan Smith) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: No Subject Date: 10 May 1994 06:51:41 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #14 (NOV) Status: RO Sorry, I happened to have a Defence Mapping Agency (my only map from the DMA in fact) of West Point and its environs... "Russell G. Dushin" writes: >....but let's not give our readers (esp those on foreign soils) the >wrong impression. I live just about 2 miles, as the shell flys, from >West Point (just across the river in Garrsion, NY) and even closer to >their bosom buddies, Camp Smith (a national guard, or "weekend warrior" >training ground). Russell also gave coordinates of 41 deg 17' 30" N by 73 deg 51' 04" W. Roy, FireMission...18TWA962715 (actually 715.5--how do you indicate this Roy?) Unfortunately, this target is about 7.6 miles as the crow flies from the closest baoundary of West Point (and is on US Route 202 and is about 3.25 miles west of Peekskill) And just south of Snake Hill. So did you give the latitude and longitude correctly Russell? :) Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 05:52:52 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Wheel Bearing Crunchtime To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 10 May 94 11:36:57 BST Status: RO Ordinarily,wheel bearings arent a problem,at least to me,but there is always the exception,drat it,and I would seem to have got it.What happened was this.For a week or two I could hear a faint irregular hiss when driving with the window open. However,I couldnt locate the source of the sound.Eventually,one morning,the hiss became a squeal,and the car pulled slightly to the right,before all sound ceased and the car returned to normal behaviour.That evening,it happened again,much worse this time,and on jacking up the right front wheel I found play of about two inches at the tyre rim.The wheel bearing had become unadjusted,so to speak. However,the bearing felt undamaged and adjusted up OK.Surprisingly, the oil seal seemed to be intact.A couple of weekends ago,whilst adjusting the swivel bearings,I noticed that there was still some wheel bearing play,and I assumed that the bearing had settled and now wanted adjusting.So this weekend I tightened it up.Net result, a horrible squeal and an overheating wheel bearing. At this point,I thought I'd better have the hub off to have a look at the whole thing,regrease it etc.The outer bearing fell out like a good 'un,but I cant get the hub off with the inner bearing.As you all know,it should come out with a sharp tug,and all the bits ought to drop in the clag.No way.So,what should A do now folks? I readjusted the thing (it *was* too tight),and its rolling again, but that hub is going to have to come off sooner or later,preferably sooner.And further,has anyone got any ideas as to how a Timken taper roller bearing can hang onto its track like this one.If you look at the cross-sectional drawing of the hub assembly,its bloody well impossible.Any ideas/comments will be gratefully received.I really would prefer *not* to have to buy a complete new stub axle/hub assembly. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 10:31:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: mb@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Springs From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 09:31:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Micheal and Rudolf. The springs with the most camber go on the right hand side of the Land Rover, regardless of whether LHD or RHD. This is for Robin :-) Dale -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 10:32:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rudolph and Springs From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 10:06:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Now, I received two messages for solving my rear springs problem (Which one goes where). Thanks, but I now have one problem. The first message told me that on LHD LR's, the spring that has the greatest camber goes on the driver's side while the second message told me that it goes on the passenger's side! Now, I think I need more advice cos' I'm just about to lose my mind and I might just switch everything to coil springs! (I don't even know how to do that kind of conversion so I will stick with springs... Fixed the short problem, removed the old springs, All I need is a another advice that will convince me on which side the springs go....Oh, well, have a rovering time, everyone! Michel Bertrand, 1963 109 PU with no rear springs, Ottawa, Great White North..... -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 09:29:18 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 10:17:32 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: hstevens@mgb.tiac.net (Henry Stevens) Subject: Homeward-bound: Looking for sights/Land Rovers Status: RO I'll soon be signing off this list (temporarily) to begin my return to Calgary, Alberta, Canada after a year in Cambridge, MA, USA, so I'm looking for Land Rover-oriented events and/or vehicles for sale along my travel route. I'll be leaving Cambridge around June 11, heading north to Quebec, before turning my nose west onto the Trans-Canada. I don't have a lot of spare time in the schedule, but I'd love to hear about any events taking place near the route in the 7-10 days following that date. My return to Canada, in addition to bringing me back into contact with my '64 MGB which I'm anxious to unwrap and unwind, also marks the beginning of my quest for my first Land Rover. So news of any likely candidates not too far off the route would be greatly appreciated as well. Like several other recent posters on this list (and likely many list members) I'd be most interested in that rarely-sighted breed, the 109 SW. I'll keep my eyes open as well for previously unknown rigs and will post details of them when I get re-subscribed upon my return to Calgary. Please respond to this by the 20th, if possible, since I'll begin signing off from the various lists I subscribe to around that date. Thanks; Henry hstevens@mgb.tiac.net ================================================ ,______________, hstevens@mgb.tiac.net | | | henry_stevens@bmugbos.org [|______|_______|] /___/^^^^^^\___\ have: '64 MGB roadster (beauty) |(@) [####] (@)| want: LWB Land Rover (d beast) | o [####] o | ======%%%%====== "Without a real car, I'm only {*}={&&}====={*} half a man." -Dean Jones {*} {*} "The Love Bug" ================================================ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 09:42:42 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 10:20:46 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: East Coast Rally? Status: RO Okay, time for a little market research before we commit ourselves.... At a club outing last weekend, the topic of a mid-Atlanitc Rover rally was suggested. We have a good location at the McCaig's Penlan Farm in Buckingham County, VA and a trials course is already in place, save for one Camel Trophy-style bridge. Much four wheelin' nearby on cutover logging tracts. Canoeing and fishing if you wish. We will be able to get corporate underwriting from LRNA as well as the local Land Rover dealer; new RR's, Discos and Defenders will be there and taken *off road*. We have already booked a block of rooms at the nearest motel and a B&B not far away, though there is plenty of room for primitive camping on-site. A blue grass band will play Saturday night, while the local vol. fire dept. will hold a BBQ. Porta-potties, tents, utilities and insurance are being arranged. Other attactions include an area set aside for a swap meet, a road tour/timed rally, a teeter-totter, carriage rides, a contest between a Defender and two horse power skidding out logs, while you could even pan for gold in the streams. (This was the area of the country's first gold rush in the 1820's). So far, no funds have been spent, but that would have to change soon. The best weekend for the landowners is Aug 19-21. I know that is the same time frame as the national in Colorado and Utah...I'd love to go to that, but I just dont't have the time to spend a week in to-fro travel, plus a week on the sceen. So here is an east coast alternative. Comments? What would you be willing to pay for a BBQ dinner? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 09:41:04 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 94 10:31:41 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at May 10, 94 12:54 (midnight) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Robin wrote: > > People, come on now, stupid faces. YUK. Much more of that and I amouta > here. I thought this net was free of that junk, enough said eh? then added > > Andy Graham, co toy collector and I are going down to Mississauga next > week, I am attending the Discovery launch. Andy will probably go to > Lester B. Pearson to photograph the planes. the day before we will be > setting up a display of the joint toy collection that we have. No > doubles, just the best we have, including some range rovers. > > When I suggested the idea to Land Rover Canada they were amazed thsat > somebody would collect toys of the vehicle! Well they aint seen nothing > yet! > To each his own. There is always the delete key, ya know. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 09:44:38 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: No Subject To: ranger@sloth.ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Allan Smith) (Benjamin Allan Smith) Date: Tue, 10 May 94 10:35:28 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <2qnatt$r1s@gap.cco.caltech.edu>; from "Benjamin Allan Smith" at May 10, 94 6:51 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Sorry, I happened to have a Defence Mapping Agency (my only map from the > DMA in fact) of West Point and its environs... > > "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > >....but let's not give our readers (esp those on foreign soils) the > >wrong impression. I live just about 2 miles, as the shell flys, from > >West Point (just across the river in Garrsion, NY) and even closer to > >their bosom buddies, Camp Smith (a national guard, or "weekend warrior" > >training ground). > > Russell also gave coordinates of 41 deg 17' 30" N by 73 deg 51' 04" W. > > Roy, FireMission...18TWA962715 (actually 715.5--how do you indicate this Roy?) > > Unfortunately, this target is about 7.6 miles as the crow flies from the closest > baoundary of West Point (and is on US Route 202 and is about 3.25 miles west of > Peekskill) And just south of Snake Hill. So did you give the latitude and > longitude correctly Russell? :) > > Benjamin Smith > > Those coords were estimated from a USGS of the area. Perhaps I am off by a tad, but guarentee you I'm closer than 7.6 miles. (Do you really think I'd give the *exact* coordinates given the circumstances?) gosh, why am i taking so much shit today? rd From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 10:44:44 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Wheel Bearing Crunchtime To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Tue, 10 May 94 11:35:59 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405101036.AA00791@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at May 10, 94 11:36 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: (lots cut) > at the whole thing,regrease it etc.The outer bearing fell out like > a good 'un,but I cant get the hub off with the inner bearing.As you > all know,it should come out with a sharp tug,and all the bits ought > to drop in the clag.No way.So,what should A do now folks? > I readjusted the thing (it *was* too tight),and its rolling again, > but that hub is going to have to come off sooner or later,preferably > sooner.And further,has anyone got any ideas as to how a Timken taper > roller bearing can hang onto its track like this one.If you look at > the cross-sectional drawing of the hub assembly,its bloody well > impossible.Any ideas/comments will be gratefully received.I really > would prefer *not* to have to buy a complete new stub axle/hub > assembly. ya. wrap a big 'ol chain around it, get yer favorite farm vehicle out, and yank! (worked for me and my stuck half shaft and boy, was that fun.) but have you tried a slide hammer first? guess i'd suspect that some bits of metal shavings may have got in there, in between the stub axle and the inner race, or in its path during attempted removal. or perhaps when it heated up the two became just one, or nearly so. rd From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 12:07:33 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 12:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Spring Thing To: Michele Bertrand Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OK Folks... SPRINGS.....Whew..You will get tired of reading before I get tired of typing... The way I understand this *different* camber stuff is that the springs with the greater free(off the car) camber are to go on the drivers side......This comes frome an offical manual that went into great detail on the method to be used to identify left< and right> sides and said that they would NOT refer to drivers and passenger sides!.....Great...The theory is that on right hand drive vehicles the extra camber was needed to offset the weight of the driver and the fuel tank on that side...I cannot picture the driver that ROVER had in mind when they can up with this as the 88" was designed for someone who was 5'7" and with all that extra camber they were expecting them to weigh 400lbs.!!!!! It dosen't help matters that the engine is offset to the left in the chassis..SOOOOOO here is what I've found to work... do NOT install different camber springs on the ROVER! I installed 109 1 ton springs (both are the same camber and rate) in the rear,and 109 Diesel springs (both the higher camber) in the front of the 109 sw and it sits LEVEL....Station wagon springs are more progressive than standard and tend to sag after a short time... the do give a better ride installed in an 88" however....The front springs seem to have the greatest effect on the ride and the "levelness" of the vehicle ...You can prove this with your jack ....Jack undre the low side at the front and the whole vehicle sits level...do it at the rear...and you will not get the front level w/o the rear being to far the other way.... The 109sw rides the same with the 1 ton springs in the rear as it did with new 109sw springs in it....badly..but 10x better than as 88"!!!! I would not be upset if someone counters every bit of this,as it is only my observations..and I have mostly worked on LWB vehicles...You folks with the 80" cars may have a different outlook (REAL different) ;-) leaves and coils steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 12:00:05 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: East Coast Rally? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 May 94 10:20:46 PDT." <013.00707355.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 94 09:50:23 PDT Status: RO In message <013.00707355.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> you write: > The best weekend for the landowners is Aug 19-21. I know that is the same > time frame as the national in Colorado and Utah...I'd love to go to that, > but I just dont't have the time to spend a week in to-fro travel, plus a > week on the sceen. So here is an east coast alternative. Comments? What > would you be willing to pay for a BBQ dinner? I'll show up if I can get the weekend away from work, though I may be done with my summer job by then. Depending on the BBQ, I'd put the upper bound at $15 a head. Is there any chance that any of us get to test drive any of the new Defenders, Discos or Range Rovers? Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 12:37:21 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 13:16:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Sender: Steven M Denis Reply-To: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Wheel Bearing Crunchtime To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405101036.AA00791@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Well Lad, I just came in from watching the Eclipse with my #14 sheild and It hit me...no not the shield,the SOULTION!!! Your inner wheel bearing seized and the inner race"spun" on the stub shaft thus generating enough heat to WELD the race to the shaft....$$$$$$$$$$$$$ rough bit that! there is a slight chance that you can split the bearing from the shaft and with REAL careful use of a file reuse the shaft...Nah, you better not.. any discolor (discolour?) on the shaft is a sign that it is time to replace..there must be a few Rovers lying (laying?..never did get that..)about to take the shaft (whole hub?) from,no? Methinks that is the trouble that you discribed...if not please clarify so I can go on at lenght about something else........ good luck, steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 16:01:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: OVLR off-road events for May and June. From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 14:16:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The following are the two scheduled off-road events for May and June that Ottawa Valley Land Rovers will be hosting. July and August events will be posted later in June. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saturday, May 21st: Jerry & Roy's Off-road Adventure Jerry & Roy, off-roaders extraordinaire, are organising a Spring off-road trip to Otter Lake to be held on the long weekend in May. Who:The trip is open to all interested Land Rover owners and friends. What:Spring off road/fishing/camping trip travelling on tarmac roads from Ottawa to the Otter Lake area of Quebec. The approximate distance is 70 miles on tarmac (Ottawa to Shawville, near Vern's house and site of the Maple Syrup Rally), followed by 40 miles of secondary roads through the ZEC-Pontiac Wildlife Reserve. From the ZEC-Pontiac we will travel north on the John Bull Trail, approximately 20 miles over trails varying from hard rock hilly terrain to sandy surfaces. We will be stopping and setting up camp at Andre Hamel's fishing camp. From here, everyone can relax or go fishing in the many lakes in the area, or they can continue exploring offroad trails all the way up to Lavendyre Park. When:This trip will be held on the long weekend in May, leaving Ottawa early on Saturday May 21st. As various people are coming from diverse points, the participants are to meet in Shawville between 8:00 and 8:30am. From there the convoy of vehicles will head up to Andre's hunt camp through, on a 1:50,000 map sheet, what looks like fascinating territory. (For those of you with a collection of maps, Andre's camp is on the bottom edge of the Lac Doolottle (31 K/10) sheet. How:In a Land Rover preferably, with each vehicle, or individual, bringing the following items for themselves: Tent; sleeping bag; food & drink; any winching stuff they might have; shovel; water for two days; five gallons of gasoline; five litres of oil; rain gear; and bug juice. The Club is supplying other goodies, but you are responsible for your own happiness to a certain extent. Why:Why not. A weekend away with great off-road and fishing potential. Contacts: For more information contact: Jerry Dowell (827-2932) Andre Hamel (682-6018) June 18-19th: OVLR Birthday Party! Annual Club Birthday Party at Doc. Dolan's in Almonte. What: The annual light off-roading, heavy mud bogging OVLR camping party. Where: At Doc. Dolan's place in Almonte. There will be a convoy leaving from the Westgate Shopping Centre on Merivale and Carling at 8:30am Saturday morning. Alternatively, members can arrive for camping on the Friday evening, or drive up on their own. Directions: Take the Queensway (Hwy 417) west out of Ottawa. Follow the 417 past where it turns into a single lane highway (Now it is Hwy 17). Continue down Hwy 17 for another ten kilometres until you get to a set of traffic lights. This is the Almonte/Carp exit. Turn left onto Hwy 44. Continue 16 kilometres into the town of Almonte. Continue through Almonte, over the rive, until you get to the set of traffic lights at Hwy 15. There will be a Petro Canada station on your right. Turn right and continue down Hwy 15 until you see a sign for Bennies Corners. Turn left. Continue down the dirt road until you get to a "T". Turn right. Follow this road (it does a 90 left about 1/4 mile from the previous turn) until you see the yellow OVLR sign. Turn left and follow the trail to the upper fields. (There will be a map in the June newsletter) When: Tentative schedule: Saturday: For those of you who have not arrived Friday evening at the site, a convoy shall gather at the Westgate Shopping Plaze on Merivale and Carling, leaving at 8:30am to proceed up to the Birthday Party. 10:00 Everyone arrives at party site. 10:30 Brunch (Hot dogs & coffee) Noon Heavy off-road session. Lots of mud, bog, etc. For the heavy off-road, it has been suggested that vehicles that prove to be unable to perform on the trail, and die some horrible (overheating coil) & predictable (Honda wires) death will be towed into the woods adjoining the trail, thus allowing vehicles to get past and continue on. Vehicles that are moved off the trail will be fetched & assisted at the conclusion of the heavy off-road event. 4-7pm Social 7pm Dinner- menu to be announced Sunday 9:30 Breakfast 11:00 Auction hosted by Bates? There will be a series of light off-road trails marked off for those who do not wish to inflict great amounts of glorious mud upon there vehicles. It is also recommended that all children going on off-road events wear either hockey or bicycle helmets while in the back of the Land Rovers. They do get bounced about a fair amount while shouting for us to get well and truly stuck. What: As this is an off-road and camping event, participants are expected to bring along the necessities of survival, such as a tent, any chairs, cutlery, plates and extra food that they will require. OVLR will be providing the Dinner Saturday evening. For the brunch and breakfast, the club should be providing hot-dogs, eggs, et cetera. More news, and cost of the event, in the next newsletter. (613) 951-3232 (w) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 16:24:08 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: Steven M Denis Cc: Mike Rooth , lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Wheel Bearing Crunchtime In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 May 94 13:16:31 PDT." Date: Tue, 10 May 94 14:14:05 PDT Status: RO In message you write: > Well Lad, I just came in from watching the Eclipse with my #14 sheild and > It hit me...no not the shield,the SOULTION!!! Your inner wheel bearing > seized and the inner race"spun" on the stub shaft thus generating enough > heat to WELD the race to the shaft....$$$$$$$$$$$$$ rough bit that! > there is a slight chance that you can split the bearing from the shaft and > with REAL careful use of a file reuse the shaft...Nah, you better not.. > any discolor (discolour?) on the shaft is a sign that it is time to > replace... Yup, this happened to me about 3 years ago coming back from the Atlantic British Rally. On the NY State Thruway the inner bearing siezed and exploded. The inner race welded itself to the shaft and just to make things worse the stub shaft cracked. The outer bearing looked ok though (but was replaced for safety). So welding to the shaft can happen! In order to get the hub assembly off I had to remove what was left of the inner bearing piece by peice. I relearned a lot of four letter words while doing that. Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 16:56:13 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 17:26:44 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Rover Rally Status: RO Several folks wrote back stating that they would be interested in attending an East Coast rally in August. And yes, there will be Discos and Defenders to play in. If you are interested, please send me your home or office address so that I can work up a mailing list. Thanks. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 06:43:15 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rudolph and Springs From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 17:39:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) writes: > Fixed the short problem, removed the old springs, All I need is a > another advice that will convince me on which side the springs go....Oh, > well, have a rovering time, everyone! The way the road is cambered? :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 17:48:05 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 94 15:38:27 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rudolph has to wait Status: RO In message writes: snip > So today, I will be changing Rudolph rear springs. Let's just say > that the thirty year old springs did see better days. When the Pick-up > bed is empty, the leafs are horizontal. There's no more camber!Now I have > a tricky question for you dudes and dudettes: I have ordered two set of > rear springs from Merseyside for Rudolph and for the 109 Station Wagon. > In each of the two sets, there is one that has a greater camber. What > should I do? Make two identical pairs of springs (one pair being a bit > lower than the other) or stick with what was sent, one higher spring on > each vehicle. And if I choose the latest, On what side does wich spring > go? Remember, it's a Left hand drive. > > Thanks in advance, Rudolph will truly appreciate. Hopefully, he > will lose his snobbish attitude, it's nose always pointing in the air.. > > Michel Bertrand and Rudolph (1963 109 PU), Ottawa, Canada > > > -- > Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada As a guess I would say, Put the one with greater camber on the drivers side. If you want to be sure FAX merseyside land Rover services and ask them. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 10 18:31:18 1994 Date: Tue, 10 May 94 19:21:13 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Folks- sorry, but some of this was carried on off the net, and some of you may be interested in the banter that has taken place.....if not, then you know where the delete key is, don't ja? I will forwarn all of you, this gets extremely long winded (sorry for the wasted bandwidth for those now search for their delete key). Marcus replied to my reply to his reply (etc) >> Note that real cutch is not felt until the slave is 1/2 way thru its travel, >> and this is with the adjustment fully extended...thus, the collar that pushes >> the operating levers is put through a considerable amount of travel before >> contact is made. >You seem to be describing a clutch pedal action with a high biting point ie >one which disengages the clutch for a relatively small amount of pedal >travel. This would suggest that either the pressure plate is worn (clearly >not the case since you have measured it), the friction plate is badly worn >(also not the case since you say it is nearly new) or that the slave cylinder >push-rod is incorrectly adjusted or just too long to start with. > Yes, it has a high biting point. No, I have not yet measured the pressure plate (sorry for misleading you if I did), and yes, this could be a source of my troubles. I did measure the friction (drive) plate, and it is nearly brand new. With the slave push-rod any shorter, the piston in the slave cylinder must be pushed down *even further* than 1/2 way in order for real clutch to be felt. *THEN* I will bottom out the slave part way through the travel of the clutch pedal. >I'm not sure if this relevent, but you might be interested in an article in >the current (May) issue of LRO. In it the author describes the opposite >problem: he found he had insufficient travel to fully disengage the clutch, >and discovered on replacing the slave cylinder that the old push-rod was >considerably shorter than the new one - apparently the old rod had actually >worn down by 1/2" or more. > This sounds more like Greg's problem (see below). I did consider, however, asking some of you kind souls just how long your push rod was.....then I figured who in their right mind would go out, remove their floors, drop the rod, and measure it for me....only TeriAnn, perhaps, since she already had hers out. My push rod *appears* to be in fine shape, with a nicely machined spherical surface on top where it hits the piston. (Which also makes me wonder if the previous owner replaced it with a non OEM one or one from somewhere else.) >This provokes the thought that your slave cylinder may not be dimensionally to >spec. It is just possible that it may have been replaced at some stage in its >life, and while it has operated satisfactorily until now, is perhaps now on >the borderline of effective operation through wear and tear elsewhere. > It appears to be a LR slave cylinder. I did check it out against the others that I have from LRs. The slave works just fine, and has fully *two times* the amount of travel needed for *one* push of the pedal. (recall in a message of a few weeks back I had a problem with my return spring on my slave cylinder lever.....it was returning the clutch to a position wherein the slave cylinder piston was at the very top of the slave cylinder, and pushed the oil back into the reservoir past the check valve in the master [which got replaced during the ensuing clutch master rebuild], but *only* if you let the pedal come up to full height. ie the check valve works when you press down the pedal even the smallest amount, but if left free oil is allowed to pass back into the reservoir. I tried to adjust this out with the adjustment at the master cylinder push rod, but to no avail.....which sorta surprised me 'cause that shoulda worked. I was left to assume that this condition was normal. With the return spring on, and the slave cylinder piston at the top of the slave, I could get two full pedal's worth of travel in the slave, two quick ones, that is; quick enough so that the return spring did not push oil past the check valve int the master to any significant degree. The first pedal's worth got me to the point of feeling "real clutch". The second pedal's worth got me clutch, all clutch, but it disengaged *at the very begining* [on the top of the 2nd pedal stroke]. The (temporary) solution to the problem was to remove the return spring, and the good folks at RN informed me that "later" versions (from the early-mid sixties onward) did not have this spring at all. Now the slave stays at the 1/2 way position, ready to (dis)engage the clutch. But you've hit a very good point, and one I am contending with every day.....the question of whether I am dealing with OEM bits (slave, push rod, etc) and of whether it is all put together correctly. Again, Nigel got a new tranny shortly before I got him (and the owner hinted ever so slightly that he wasn't entirely pleased with the job they did....maybe now I know why-'cause they F'd up his clutch), so I am left to constantly wonder if they reassembled him as he was. ????? I do now know, for instance, that the slave cylinder _was_ put on _within_ the enclosed bracket (this is the old style mounting system, not the IIa type), and that this was not correct (although it did help get the slave closer to the push rod and thereby gave you more adjustment....with the slave put where it is supposed to be, on top of the bracket, I am out of adjustment). BTW, one of the listings for clutch judder in the Haynes manual is, in addition to busted motor mounts and oil on the clutch, an "incorrectly assembled clutch", and in the factory manual, they point out that if the operating levers (on the clutch, not the lever on the slave) are incorrectly adjusted, you can get a judder problem. My current working hypothesis is that the operating fork and the cross shaft may be incorrectly assembled- ie off by one tooth or so. I need to check this out (with the ball bearing in between the collar and the case as per the factory manual). Another equally valid hypothesis is that the operating levers (the three in teh clutch) are incorrectly adjusted. This will be checked too. Yet another you've listed above; that my pressure plate is warn beyond the usable point, or warped; and one more you came up with was that my flywheel is also warn beyond the usable stage. >Have you also looked at the adjustment of the clutch pedal height (ie master >cylinder push-rod adjustment)? If the clutch pedal height were incorrectly .....(sorry, but I lost the rest of this message, from here it basically suggested that if the clutch pedal height were adjusted incorrectly, and the adjustment at the slave was "taking up the slack", then this could also be the cause of my troubles, or vica versa.) I did check the pedal height (above). I remain unsure if the adjustment on the master push rod should be such that it allows oil to flow back into the reservoir upon *completely* releasing the pedal. Comments?? ********************************************************************* Greg wrote (as a reply to my problems): > >>Nigel's clutch judder symptoms were as follows: Upon starting in either >>first or reverse it was as though there was no rub to the clutch....as soon >>as it engaged full power was delivered to the rear end and most often >>he literally bounced to a start. > >I have had this happen every so often. I have the problem of the dragging >clutch - ie clutch most likely not totally disengaging. After giving the >clutch peddle a few good whacks the dragging goes away but then sometimes >after this I get the condition you describe above. On average the clutch >engagement is not too smooth but not as bad as you describe. >i hydraulics? warn push rod? (see above) >>Some specific questions for those of you kind helpful souls who are still >>with me: >> >>a) should the friction plate and flywheel surfaces be perfectly clean and >>evenly polished as I presume? > >They were on my truck but that was the first clutch job I have ever done. and this is mine, obviously. >>b) should the entire bell housing be dry as a bone, or can some amount >>of oil seepage into it be tolerated? > >I traced a major gearbox leak to a bad seal around the clutch fork housing. >I pulled that off thinking it was supposed to be dry in there - dumped all >the gearbox oil on the floor and learned the hard way. I would think that >some oil is going to get in there but any oil on the clutch is going to be >no good. > hmm. (Marcus had previously replied to this question as well....and stated that some oil-but not pools of it-could be expected.) How much is too much may well be a fine line...surely any *on* the clutch can't be good. I do, however, have good reason to suspect that upon the tranny rebuild some gaskets were omitted.....the OD unit, for instance, lacked one, and there's lotsa permatex about....so I am again left to wonder if incorrect assembly may have at least partially contributed to my problems.... >>c) can I replace the withdrawl bearing while the tranny is moved back, >>or will I need to take it out first? Is it worth the effort? (Do I want to >>do this again??) > >Sorry - no help here. Marcus hinted no. But he hadn't removed his OD unit as I have, so I may well have enough room to do this (whereas he apparently did not). I will probably try to have a look at the entire withdrawl mechanism, especially the fork-to-cross shaft alignment. > >> >>I am tempted to replace both the friction and pressure plates, maybe >>even the clutch springs as well. > >The diaphragm clutch replaces the spring clutch and is supposed to be much >better - that is what I have. I tend to think that my problem might be in >the hydraulics as I am losing fluid out of the master cylinder. But who >knows? The wonder with Rovers is that even with something so simple there >are still more opinions then facts. > >If you can afford it and the friction plate looks fairly worn - I would >replace it. You don't want to have to take that gearbox off again anytime >soon. If you do replace it you should go with the newer clutch assembly >which will retrofit back onto the Series IIa. as above, the friction plate appears to be nearly brand new (and may well have been replaced when the tranny was done). The pressure plate, however is still suspect.... Thanks much, folks, for thinking this through with me, and for your helpful suggestions. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 03:56:53 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Wheel Bearings To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 11 May 94 9:47:20 BST Status: RO Thanks to those who replied to this one,the consensus seems to be that the inner race is stuck(at the very least)on the stub axle.On balance,I agree.It does leave an interesting question,though.Bear in mind that the thing *is* still rolling with little,if any,discernable rumble,and no heat, now.OK,even if the inner race is solid with the axle,the taper on the outer track of the bearing is in such a direction that it should *still* be possible to pull the hub off it,since the taper is self-releasing in this direction. Further,any accelerated wear that has taken place will tend to increase the clearances,rather than the other way round. Of course,the question is very much an academic one,since the only way to find out what has happened is to get the hub off. The other wierdo in this situation is that judging by the condition of the brake,the oil seal is still intact.There is an abundance of grease in the hub,but,as yet,none at all around the brake.Its beginning to look as though the hub will have to be jacked off,possibly using two bolts and two blocks of metal with holes threaded to take the bolts. Just at present,though,MOT preparations are the order of the day,rear X member welding due tommorrow,new LH side lamp lens needed(it is cracked,and somewhat discoloured, and all lights *must* be of the same brightness)and the back tyres are due for replacement.These will be 205x16 Trakker radial remoulds.I finally got browned orf with terrain-following. Thanks again for the help. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 18:52:11 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@stratus.com Subject: protecting heavily loaded 110s Date: Wed, 11 May 94 16:41:06 Status: RO i'm going to start using my 110 as a "taxi" to shuttle search and rescue units up logging roads in the local Olympic/Cascade mountain ranges (). this is the US '93 Defender, and as a taxi i expect all 9 seats will be in use, so i'll be fully-loaded. i was thinking about some skid plates around the drivetrain/etc. in the US Defender 90/110 parts catalog (the big manual with exploded view drawings of all parts of the vehicle with part numbers) the Defender 90 has an optional part i noticed in the parts catalog is STC-1371 (engine protection plate) which was not listed as an option for the Defender 110. by chance does anyone know if this'll fit the Def110? Rovers North is rechecking the price for this plate, but the books currently say $800 (!!!!!!!!!!!!! $800 for a skid plate???!!!!). do you have any other recommendations to help the vehicle survive the heavy load on these roads? (no need to recommend radio stuff, there's a huge list of requirements in that area...) thanks in advance, Lee Fisher From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 17:17:22 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 11 May 94 17:01:50 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: KINGPINS Status: RO have any of you guys on the net replaced the front kingpins lately? i think im in the position to replace mine on the 69 series iia. what i need is some advice on how i should proceed with this operation and how difficult it is. i guess my biggest fear is the damn thing breaking off at the hub while im driving down the road and coming to a stop with a trail of fireworks from dragging the left front side along the pavement. my ingenuity tells me that they are worn out. the wheel while jacked up moves in every direction about 1/2 inch. more on the right wheel then the left but never the less it wiggles around. im pretty sure its not the bearing cause thats been torques properly already. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thx in advance From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 18:58:56 1994 Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 19:39:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: spring is in the air... To: unclebrad@aol.com Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405110239.tn383658@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Yes, that all sounds possible,but the workshop book says the higher camber springs go on the drivers side which would already be the high side due to the high crowned road...hey! you don't suppose that the expression high crowned road was due to the kings roads("crown" roads?) being better all weather types with the water drain off feature as opposed to the ordinary roads that would become quagmires in the wet season..(all year) well anyway...all springs being equal....I wouls still do as you say and put similar springs all the way' round!!! Off to the nationals!! hee hee hee! steve.. HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Wed, 11 May 1994 unclebrad@aol.com wrote: > I don't jump in too often, but this 'spring thing' is something that really > gets me. > > The story I got was that the different right & left springs was to ofset > what is called "road camber". The roads in Britain were usually built with > the middle of the road higher than the edges... I think it was so that the > water would run off. Well, cars with equally strong springs would sit on the > road with a bit of a lilt... in England, on the left hand side, the vehicles > would lean to the left. Soooo, they made the left hand springs on the Rovers > a bit taller to compensate, making the car "sit level". I'm told that this > is documented (to some degree) in some old manual somewhere by an old Rover > mechanic I know who used to do service work on Rovers in the 60s. > > Assuming that this is the reason for those different springs, wouldn't it > make real good sense to buy 2 left hand springs for the front (or 2 right > hand springs) and the same for the rear? Then we in the US with flat roads > would finally see our Rovers sitting level, the way they should! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 19:23:07 1994 Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 19:51:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Wheel Bearings To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405110847.AA19468@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO oops you did tell me that there is no formal training for mechanics in the UK..but I got the idea that you had a handle on the little lla problems... The taper is on the OUTER surface of the INNER race,where the rollers run..(or in this case walk,stumble and fall...)the inner diameter of the inner race is "square" so the inner race with rollers and cage is *not* coming off.. the outer race (I always think of martians..) is now so worn that it has a groove that is catching on the edge of the rollers...hence no come-off-o on the hub-o If you have not tried this I recomend that you use the tire..oops tyre and wheel as a slide hammer..that is to take the wheel off and turn it around,install the lug nuts...just a few turns in please..and *bang* it in and out to break the "lip" on that outer race...this works best if the brakes are backed off and or the drum removed...I know all you purists are diving for you "reply" key but .....Look it works and I'm not telling him to do it to YOUR truck!...turing the wheel around seems to give better results as you can get a better grip and tend to hit the nuts square... short of that have you ever seen the film The Love Bug? You could always hang someone out the opposit window to raise the offending wheel off the pavement.... better go now,. steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 19:12:52 1994 Date: 12 May 1994 12:02:56 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: RangeRover continues to run without key! To: lro@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO LROers, I feel like the victim of some Lucas practical joke....... Yesterday, it was pissing down with rain when I got home so I (thought I) turned off the ignition, locked the door, and started for the house. However, as I rounded the Rangey I noticed there was exhaust coming out and realised that it was still running. I tried the ignition several times, but it wouldn't shut off. Finally, I disconnected the coil (to kill it) and the battery. I suppose it is probably the ignition switch, but I wanted to get some alternative opinions before I dive into the steering column. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 20:03:19 1994 Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 20:42:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: KINGPINS To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO It is highly unlikley that the swivel pin will actally break off.(you comp-safari types can jump in with the horror stories) the Railco bush is shot in the top due to lack of oil...lose those lock out hubs!! and the bottom bearing..the one that has been sitting in water since that last river crossing...is pitted and "brindled" due to the pounding brought on by all the slop in the system...the repair is straight forward and is outlined in the Haynes manual..the only special tool requited is a spring scale to measure the steering arm resistance..get new lock tabs for everything and, when you are done remember to run with the lock out "IN" and change/check that swivel pin oil more often!!!! Its a dirty job,but somebody has to do it ...like YOU!!! good luck... steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 11 20:27:22 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 20:18:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: overdrive To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Quick market reasearch question: What is a good price (I'm thinking of selling) for a used 1 year old superwinch (fairey) overdrive w/ 13000 miles and rigorous oil \ changes? This is a question in terms of US dollars, but opinions from elswhere are welcomed, too. THanks Michael H. Ramage 1971 Series !!a 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 07:08:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: KINGPINS From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 23:44:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com writes: > > have any of you guys on the net replaced the front kingpins lately? Yes, on Dave Meadows's 88 when we rebuilt it. > on how i should proceed with this operation and how difficult it is. The easiest way is to take the whole front assembly apart, swivel balls etc. Sounds adventurous, but it is the most efficient. > side along the pavement. my ingenuity tells me that they are worn out. the wh > while jacked up moves in every direction about 1/2 inch. more on the right wh > then the left but never the less it wiggles around. im pretty sure its not th > bearing cause thats been torques properly already. any suggestions would be > greatly appreciated. thx in advance Are you really sure? Sure the wheels wobble, but when driving what happens? Does the vehicle pull to one side? Does the vehicle wander about? What is the condition of the bearings? Are they tightened properly? (To tighten the front bearing up properly, you tighten the first nut until playing/pulling on the hub generates a rippling effect in the grease. There is not really a torque setting, but a distance involved that cannot be checked without a propoer gauge (Note: gAuge, not like the Yanks that like GM's gUage or worse gAge in revisionist spelling) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 07:05:41 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Subject: forwarded mail back to list Date: Thu, 12 May 94 05:23:10 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO If your mailer generates a To: or CC: address of 'car-list-rejects', please be sure to modify it to 'land-rover-owner' or 'lro', else it won't make it to the list. Cheers, - Bill caloccia@stratus.com Stratus Computer Ltd Central House, Lampton Road Hounslow, Middlesex, TW3 1HY, U.K. tele: +44 81 570 4433 fax: +44 81 569 4755 ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: mikedr@microsoft.com Message-Id: <9405112307.AA23359@netmail2.microsoft.com> X-Msmail-Message-Id: 2F5F9A33 X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 2F5F9A33 From: Mike Dryfoos To: car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 11 May 94 17:04:17 TZ Subject: RE: protecting heavily loaded 110s Hi Lee. I'm curious about the search and rescue work you're going to be doing. My girlfriend and I are training our dogs for wilderness search and rescue work with the local German Shepherd Search Dogs group, so I imagine we might run into each other out in the field on some joint exercise. Are you in the 4x4 SAR group, or are you connected with some other group? Oh, and we use our '92 Range Rover (with the back seats pulled out to give the dogs more room) to haul our dogs around for our training exercises. - ---------- | From: | To: | Subject: protecting heavily loaded 110s | Date: Wednesday, May 11, 1994 4:41PM | | i'm going to start using my 110 as a "taxi" to shuttle search and rescue | units up logging roads in the local Olympic/Cascade mountain ranges (). | this is the US '93 Defender, and as a taxi i expect all 9 seats will be in | use, so i'll be fully-loaded. | | i was thinking about some skid plates around the drivetrain/etc. in the | US Defender 90/110 parts catalog (the big manual with exploded view | drawings of all parts of the vehicle with part numbers) the Defender 90 | has an optional part i noticed in the parts catalog is STC-1371 (engine | protection plate) which was not listed as an option for the Defender 110. | by chance does anyone know if this'll fit the Def110? Rovers North is | rechecking the price for this plate, but the books currently say $800 | (!!!!!!!!!!!!! $800 for a skid plate???!!!!). | | do you have any other recommendations to help the vehicle survive the | heavy load on these roads? (no need to recommend radio stuff, there's | a huge list of requirements in that area...) | | thanks in advance, | Lee Fisher | | ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 07:04:25 1994 From: CJ33880@aol.com Sender: "CJ33880" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 12 May 94 07:53:55 EDT Subject: Removal from list Status: RO Please remove me from list. Thanks. cj33880@aol.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 08:27:39 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:17:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rear oil seals Status: RO Gentlemen and ladies; I have to replace the rear hub oil seal. And I am about to order it from RN, but can any one tell me if their is any thing else I need to order and replace while I have the thing apart. Any other little doo-dad that I"m going to find? I sure would appreciate any wisdom on the subject. Thanks very much Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 08:57:00 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Rear oil seals To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Thu, 12 May 94 9:48:44 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Jon Humphrey" at May 12, 94 9:17 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Gentlemen and ladies; > I have to replace the rear hub oil seal. > And I am about to order it from RN, but can any one tell me if their is > any thing else I need to order and replace while I have the thing apart. > Any other little doo-dad that I"m going to find? I sure would appreciate > any wisdom on the subject. > Thanks very much > Jon > > Be sure to replace the hub seal race when you do the seal. It may appear to be ok, but even if only *slightly* scored the new seal will leak, guaranteed. It can be removed more easily than it looks using a good sharp chisel (it's soft metal). I would also consider replacing the breather on your axle casing...don't consider it, just do it. If it still works now, it won't for much longer. A plugged breather is the #1 cause of hub seal leakage.....once it starts leaking it's time to replace all (seal, seal race, breather). rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 10:10:01 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: overdrive From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 10:21:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO RAMAGEM@carleton.edu writes: > Quick market reasearch question: > What is a good price (I'm thinking of selling) for a used 1 year > old superwinch (fairey) overdrive w/ 13000 miles and rigorous oil \ > changes? In US$, well they are about $900 new, and they fetch about $500, or thereabouts used. Somewhere between these two points I'd say... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 09:17:48 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:08:13 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Breathers Status: RO >sharp chisel (it's soft metal). I would also consider replacing the >breather on your axle casing...don't consider it, just do it. If it >still works now, it won't for much longer. A plugged breather is the >#1 cause of hub seal leakage.....once it starts leaking it's time to >replace all (seal, seal race, breather). > >rd/nigel Didn't the later models have a different breather - ie on the IIa it was a little screw on jobby with a ball valve and on later models the breather was attached to a tube that ran higher up into the body of the car without the ball valve? I thought I heard that this was better and you should get rid of the older style breathers. T or F? Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 10:40:53 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 11:16:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Rear oil seals To: Jon Humphrey Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO You will want to replace the flange gasket (where the axle and hub join) and the felt washer under the axle nut,and the wheel bearing lock plate....the inner ring that the seal rides on is worn too....I bought a bunch of these with a load of junk from an old dealership so I replace them all the time....when you go to change this ,It looks like it is part of the axle...unless you have a*very* late model axle,it is not...(like 1980 on..)when you replace the ring, the book says to coat the inside with hylomar sealer...Permatex sells this under their"World Tech" line..don't forget to check the axle breather for clogs...Brake shoes oil soaked???.... and you thought this would be easy.... steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 On Thu, 12 May 1994, Jon Humphrey wrote: > Gentlemen and ladies; > I have to replace the rear hub oil seal. > And I am about to order it from RN, but can any one tell me if their is > any thing else I need to order and replace while I have the thing apart. > Any other little doo-dad that I"m going to find? I sure would appreciate > any wisdom on the subject. > Thanks very much > Jon > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 11:09:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: overdrive In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 May 1994 10:21:33 EDT." Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 08:57:52 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >> Quick market reasearch question: >> What is a good price (I'm thinking of selling) for a used 1 year >> old superwinch (fairey) overdrive w/ 13000 miles and rigorous oil \ >> changes? > In US$, well they are about $900 new, and they fetch about $500, or > thereabouts used. Somewhere between these two points I'd say... > Rgds, dixon kenner Not quite true, Rovers North has listed overdrives in their catalog at $695 for almost two years now. And since I just bought one last week I can vouch for that price. A good used one one like you describe should pull $500 bucks or so. Wish you had spoken up sooner, I'd have taken it off your hands. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 15:09:42 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 94 11:23:45 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rear oil seals Status: RO In message Jon Humphrey writes: > Gentlemen and ladies; > I have to replace the rear hub oil seal. > And I am about to order it from RN, but can any one tell me if their is > any thing else I need to order and replace while I have the thing apart. > Any other little doo-dad that I"m going to find? I sure would appreciate > any wisdom on the subject. > Thanks very much > Jon > Well Lets see. There is this little felt washer that sits on the end of the axle. You should always replace that if you take the flange off the axle (which you should not have to do). And there is a flat washer that you bend over two jam nuts. You should replace this if you decide to go into your bearings (you shouldn't have to, but it dosn't hurt to have a couple in the tool box). There is a paper gasket that goes under the flange. If you are into those, you will need a new one. I use RTV instead. The important thing is to closely examine the race where the seal rubs against. If there is any wear or pitting where the seal contacts the race, you will need to replace it. Most the time its good so i wouldn't order one unless you like to have spares sitting about. Oil seal you say... You might consider a set of rear brake shoes. If you notice a leak they will be oil soaked. If you have the shoes off, it might be a good time to rebuild the wheel cylinders. And if yoy are going to do that, it would be a good time to flush the brake system (and rear axle) and put in fresh DOT 4 LMA brake fluid. If you do the rear brakes, you might want to go ahead & do the front ones too. While you are down in back with the rear wheels off, check the mounting screws on your shocks. They sometimes work loose. Your check straps are exposed at that time. You also might want to look at their condition. Shipwrights disease, who me? By the way the Green Rover is back online as of last night. The last part was waiting on the porch when I got home. i changed into grubbis & popped it in. Everything worked better than before the pin broke. I was originally going to replace the broken pin, but I noticed that the collar opening for the pin was worn and the pin would have lots of room to move about. The lever that goes between the collar and the slave cylinder rod also had an elongated hole. The oilite bearing's hole was worn as well. So I ended up replacing both pins, the collar, the lever, and the bearing. Before this, the clutch would disengage only when almost at the floor. Now with all the slop out of the lower linkage, it disengages much closer to half way down to the floor. Sometimes shipwright's disease is a good thing. Even if it ment the Green Rover was down an extra 2/3 of a week. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 16:24:11 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Breathers To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) (Greg Hiner) Date: Thu, 12 May 94 17:14:35 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405121406.JAA01416@smtp.utexas.edu>; from "Greg Hiner" at May 12, 94 9:08 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > >sharp chisel (it's soft metal). I would also consider replacing the > >breather on your axle casing...don't consider it, just do it. If it > >still works now, it won't for much longer. A plugged breather is the > >#1 cause of hub seal leakage.....once it starts leaking it's time to > >replace all (seal, seal race, breather). > > > >rd/nigel > > Didn't the later models have a different breather - ie on the IIa it was a > little screw on jobby with a ball valve and on later models the breather > was attached to a tube that ran higher up into the body of the car without > the ball valve? I thought I heard that this was better and you should get > rid of the older style breathers. T or F? > > Greg > Since I don't own a SIII (nor know of anyone locally who does) I wouldn't know. I replaced mine a year or so ago (with a stock ball type), and check it regularly (because I don't trust it, either). I did the hub seals a few months beforehand....actually, the sequence went something like this: replace hub seals (hubs still leaked); replace hub seal races and hub seals (hubs still leaked); replace breather (fixed). I had originally (step 1 above) tried to get away with thoroughly cleaning the breather, but what it needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole cover, as opposed to a dime). The suggestions by others that you get the felt washers (ends of your axles), the lock tabs (for your hub bearings), and the gasket (for your drive flange to hub connection) were also good ones and since the bits are cheap you may as well get 'em. Then again, all the suggestions we get on this list are good ones, nearly so anyway. rd/nige (update coming in a few days-stay tuned) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 15:35:18 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 94 13:22:33 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rear oil seals Status: RO > And there is a flat washer that you bend over two jam nuts. You should > replace this if you decide to go into your bearings (you shouldn't have > to, but it dosn't hurt to have a couple in the tool box). There is a > paper gasket that goes under the flange. If you are into those, you > will need a new one. I use RTV instead. It's interesting to see all this information on hub seals...I'm in the middle of doing just this. I do have a question how you can replace the hub seals without taking off nuts and flat washer you mentioned??? Good to hear that your clutch problem is resolved Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 18:10:09 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 94 15:56:54 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: .lrr Status: RO When I had to take out my transmission to work on it (thats another story), I found one loose wire attached to the switch. The other lug on the switch had nothing on it at all. I have found the other end of the severed wire I belive, It goes back into the wire loom that enters the frame towards the rear. Assuming that this is right, does the other switch lug go to the frame or maybe power? Searches through the haynes and Series III repair manual yield nothing close to what I have in schematics. I also have the center console that has a Hazzard switch, but for some reason the previus owners did not have it installed..... Vance Chin Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> Rebuilt 2 1/4 Petrol engine :-) New Brakes and Drums :-) Rebuilt Transmission :-) New Clutch :-) Rebuilt diffs :-) New Park Brake :-) New Battery shelf :-) sans hubs :-( and electrics :-( and cooling :-( and Master Cyls :-( vance@xnet.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 18:45:17 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: KINGPINS To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Thu, 12 May 94 19:36:58 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at May 11, 94 8:42 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > It is highly unlikley that the swivel pin will actally break off.(you > comp-safari types can jump in with the horror stories) the Railco bush is > shot in the top due to lack of oil...lose those lock out hubs!! and the > bottom bearing..the one that has been sitting in water since that last > river crossing...is pitted and "brindled" due to the pounding brought on > by all the slop in the system...the repair is straight forward and is > outlined in the Haynes manual..the only special tool requited is a spring > scale to measure the steering arm resistance..get new lock tabs for everything > and, when you are done remember to run with the lock out "IN" and > change/check that swivel pin oil more often!!!! > Its a dirty job,but somebody has to do it ...like YOU!!! > > good luck... > steve.... > I would only add that you may well be able to get away WITHOUT removing the tie rod ends from the steering arm (which is attached to your swivel pin housing), which could save you a bruised knuckle or three and keep the four letter words to a minimum. You should be able to do this for both the tie rod ends that are on the steering track rod and the drag link, providing you disconnect the drag link -to- steering relay unit by removing the "bottom relay arm" (see yer parts manual) from the steering relay itself. DO NOT forget to mark it first, though, so you get it back where it belongs and not a tooth to one or the other wrong side. I have the old style "pendant" (i.e. hanging) type track rod on Nigel, and you probably don't (your track rod rests on top of the steering arms, no?), but I don't think it will matter. good luck, rd/nigel (the consensus is a) some oil on the clutch, and b) pressure plate and flywheel in need of a machining. nothing is wrong with the release mechanism nor its assembly....the cross shaft to fork connection appears to have been correct. currently in search of the *right* machine shop, and a new driven plate, rear main seal, flywheel housing o-ring, gaskets and seals for the release housing are on order.) BTW, I learned something today I didn't know but should've. OEM means original equipment manufacture....I knew this, but didn't *really* know what it meant. It does NOT mean original equipment, nor should it be confused with "genuine parts"....all it means is that the manufacturer that markets the OEM bits also makes the genuine part, BUT that manufacturer CANNOT BY LAW use the same materials to make that part. Thus, for instance, my nearly new Borg and Beck clutch plate, which Marcus kindly identified as OEM, is NOT made of the same materials as a genuine LR clutch, although the latter is still made by Borg and Beck. Confused? Try another.....OEM shocks contain nylon and fiber bits inside whereas genuine LR shocks have brass bushings.....you tell me which one you want between you and the highway (or the off road), then put it in your Merseyside catalog and smoke it (this is not to detract from the attractiveness of Merseyside and other suppliers, but it *is* nice to know *exactly* what you are getting when you order bits). There may well be numerous cases where this doesn't make a difference, but I wonder if those crappy plastic points I keep getting (from RN, no less) are OEM. cheers, rd/nige (again) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 12 20:10:55 1994 Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 20:55:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Rear oil seals To: Bruce Harding Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940512132233_1@ccm.hf.intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well you can't replace the seal without taking off the hub...so the nuts and washers have to come off....many people reuse the lock washer...Everybody *except* "Capt.Terriann"........ rgds steve.. HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 03:23:53 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: more National Rally details To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 02:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3450 Status: RO Here are some more details about the US national rally in August. For your convenience, I will try to also keep this information in my .plan file. Feel free to consult it anytime, and point other people to it when they request information about the rally. For those of you who did not understand the teaser to "finger" me a few days ago, try this command at your system prompt (% for UNIX, $ for VMS): finger tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (Apart from the orgasm, it's really quite safe!) ********************************************************************* ORGASM: Organised Rover Gathering in America's Scenic Mountains. 1994 U.S. NATIONAL LAND ROVER RALLY 14-21 August 1994 In celebration of the: * 10th anniversary of the LROA of North America * 5th anniversary of the Solihull Society, and * 5th anniversary of Blue Ridge Land Rover Club, we invite you to join us for the 1994 National Land Rover Rally in to be held in Colorado and Utah. Schedule: 14 Aug. Grand Junction The Solihull Society will lead trips around the Grand Valley. 15 Aug. Grand Junction to Moab Both highway and off-road routes will be offered. 16 Aug. Moab LROA-NA will lead trips through rocky terrain (both easy and challenging venues). 17 Aug. Moab to Durango An easy day of driving that allows for some relaxation. 18 Aug. Durango Banquet at Dante's in the Purgatory Ski Resort. Ride the famous Durango-Silverton narrow gauge railroad. Varied driving courses will be offered. 19 Aug. Durango to Great Sand Dunes National Monument Morning parade in Durango. Some off-roading will be possible on the way to the Sand Dunes. 20 Aug. Great Sand Dunes National Monument Drive in and around the Sangre de Cristo Mountains, or hike the spectacular dunes. You can also ski the dunes if you have equipment that has seen better days. At your own risk, you may attempt to link up with the rally at any point in its itinerary. Registration fee is (US) $35.00 per adult until 15 July, and $40.00 thereafter. Children 12 and under are $20.00. The fee will entitle you to a grab bag with one "wearable", a dash plaque and the banquet. For more information and registration please write to: Rover Rally, PO Box 1238, Durango, CO 81302-1238 or call: Matt Tanner at 303-247-0703 David Ritchie at 304-422-0531 ********************************************************************* .________________.____ /~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~//~~~~| / // // | /_\.___ //__ \.___//______| O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] |[______] __\__ ===========___/_ -------}========================== |** |/|@) ## @)| **| | []| |) | |/| ###### | | ____ | | ___ | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______|_________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \________________// \\ / |%{ @ } |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ 1966 Land Rover Series IIA 109" T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 06:04:24 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: OEM To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 11:47:59 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405122336.TAA01363@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at May 12, 94 07:36:58 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2827 Status: RO > It does NOT mean original equipment, nor should it be confused with "genuine > parts"....all it means is that the manufacturer that markets the OEM bits > also makes the genuine part, BUT that manufacturer CANNOT BY LAW use the > same materials to make that part. I think this is potentially a very contentious subject. Since it is extremely unlikely that there is, in England at least, any act of parliament which specifically addresses this issue, the matter could only be addressed in terms of the law of contract, on the basis of the specific details of the contract between the manufacturer and LR. To claim that manufacturesr *cannot by law* use the same materials is a little sweeping; clearly, the seals in braking systems, for example, have to be made of rubber, and to claim that the materials used in components bought directly from, say, Lucas-Girling are 'different', and presumably therefore, of (inferred) lower quality than those supplied to LR would be to cast doubt of the integrity of the manufacturer, who have a reputation to uphold - LR represents only a very small proportion of their business, after all. On the subject of clutches, I am given to understand that LR now source their clutches (for new vehicles at least) from an Italian manufacturer. In general, it is worth bearing in mind, that the supply of parts for older vehicles represents a relatively small part of LR's business and would probably not justify an OEM running a separate line for the small number of parts ordered by LR. I have been told by a UK dealer in both Genuine and OEM parts that LR source their syncho assemblies for S.II/III from Bearmach in Cardiff, since Bearmach buy much larger quantities than LR, and can consequently offer LR a better price than the manufacturer. > Try another.....OEM shocks contain nylon and fiber bits inside whereas > genuine LR shocks have brass bushings..... Presumably, LR specifiy brass bushings; the fact that this particular company think they can get away with using lesser materials for parts not supplied to LR does not imply that all such companies do the same. > There may well be numerous cases where this doesn't make a difference, but > I wonder if those crappy plastic points I keep getting (from RN, no less) > are OEM. Lucas points have been plastic for as long as I can remember...though I must admit I'm only 30, so god knows what was used originally - I was 6 when my 109 was built! The OEM versus "genuine" issue is an interesting one, and I'm sure there will be many others with opinions on the subject - my parting shot, as it were, is simply that I have had the experience of buying LR Genuine Parts and discovering that they were exactly, and I mean *exactly*, identical to parts supplied direct from the manufacturer. Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 09:04:04 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: OEM To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 13 May 94 14:49:04 BST Status: RO I agree with Marcus,here,this *is* likely to become contentious. In fact,the term OEM first came to *my* notice some fifteen to twenty years ago,applied to computing machinery.Some manufacturers were suppliers to OEM only.OEM in this context were people such as IBM,ICL (who?),Honeywell etc,who manufactured their own kit.I was not aware that the term was in use in any other field,at least over here.The term,being used in the computing field was undoubtedly coined in the States[unless you know different],and,being computing, was probably stolen from somewhere else,since computing seems unable to invent its own vocabulary,and therefore debases everyone elses,and cocks up the English language as a result. Like Marcus,I am unaware of any act of parliament along the lines suggested.What *does* seem a likely scenario,is that a firm makes items on contract for another(for the sake of argument spring bushes). Some of the output is sold to Land Rover for sale through their outlets, with the Land Rover name attached.The rest of the output is sold to non-franchised parts dealers under the manufacturers own name,or,indeed, no name at all.What *would* seem actionable would be if the manufacturer sold them direct as Land Rover parts. In my view,the OEM in this case is Land Rover themselves.So an OEM supplier would be a concern that manufactured for Land Rover Ltd.If Land Rover Ltd wished to market some of these as spares,well and good.But it would not be possible to obtain such spares from any other source but Land Rover Parts. Which would,of course,make them Genuine Parts by definition. Unless any other Brits on the list know differently,I would say that the term OEM is unkown in this country outside the computing field,and has varying meanings even within that,and is dying out anyway. As for shoddy goods,well,we have a Trades Description Act,presumably like everyone else.If,say,a shock absorber proves to be unsuitable for the application for which it is sold,it is my understanding that one applies to the local Trading Standards Office who will prosecute the offender if they consider there is a case to answer.Doesnt cost you a penny,except in taxes.These people got most energetic some years ago over some spares imported from Taiwan.The ones I remember most particularly were the track rod ends that were made in cast iron rather than cast steel(a feature of many of the parts involved)which were potentailly lethal.You dont see them any more. With the exception of spring bushes,I will quite happily fir pattern spares to my Rover,and have yet,touch wood,to be let down.This includes brake parts. Further,the supplier from whom I currently get them is rather more into repairs than parts supply,and fits them himself.Since he has a reputation to protect, (and Land Rovers is a small world),I'm happy. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 11:25:50 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Breathers To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 11:17:46 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199405122114.RAA23614@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at May 12, 94 05:14:35 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 968 Status: RO Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... >needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just >cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole >cover, as opposed to a dime). I always wondered about that -- say you have good shoes that are oil covered -- you take them off and clean them up -- first in kerosene and then in say, acetone. Would they be ok. Does the oil soak into the lining. In the past I wanted to do that, but feared it wouldn't work. So I tossed some good shoes cause I didn't want the chance that I might have to do the job twice. Any experience on this, netters? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (Sir Charles) (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 10:40:34 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 94 09:22:59 -0700 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Warwick 4x4 Information Status: RO I received some information from Warwick 4x4 today and thought that others might be interested in it. (The quality of the fax wasn't the best, so I've indicated obscured sections with a "(?)". I've also substituted a "L" for the British Pound sign. Ah, the joys of ASCII...) The cover letter states: Thank you for enquiring about the Warwick 4x4 refurbished Land Rover program. We certainly do produce Land Rovers of the type you require and have recently shipped a IIa 109" to Santa Barbara, California, with a 1962 88" almost ready to be shipped to Florida. Rather than just sell "used" Land Rovers, we have established our reputation on substantially rebuilt vehicles that will provide many years of reliable and enjoyable motoring for their owners. The model that is most popular with our overseas customers is the Warwick 4x4 URBAN ROVER upgrade to the classic Series II/III. In brief, we take a pre-1968 base vehicle and completely rebuild it on a new, hot dip galvanised chassis that has been designed for coil spring suspension - as used on the current Land Rover 90/110 range. The engine and gearbox are reconditioned, and a completely new brake system is installed with disc brakes at the front, servo assistance and dual circuit. A completely new cloth trim interior is fitted, body panels replaced and the entire vehicle painted in your choice from over 14,000 colours. I have enclosed a quotation based on our standard URBAN ROVER specification and trust this will be a useful starting point in meeting our requirements. Do contact me on +4-926-410090 or fax number +44-926-411250 with any further questions you may have - we are here to help. The spec sheet shows the following: Vehicle -------- URBAN-ROVER 109" 6 door 12 seat Station Wagon Pre 1968 year of manufacture Land Rover 4 cylinder 2.25 litre Petrol engine (unleaded) 4 speed Gearbox with selectable four wheel drive the base vehicle is substantially rebuilt including: - new hot-dip galvanised chassis - reconditioned engine - reconditioned gearbox - refurbished Land Rover 90/110 axles - new coil springs and shock absorbers - servo assisted dual circuit brake system - front disk brakes - new cupro nickel brake pipes - new luxury interior with T(?)rakkers cloth trim HiBack front seats, carpets, sound proofing, door trims, roof headlining and cubby box - new inertia reel front seat belts - complete vehicle paint in customer choice from 14,000 colours Price ------- The vehicle price of L11,250 covers all costs including purchase of the base vehicle, mechanical, electrical, trim, and paintwork as detailed above, a spares and service package of parts worth L250, and all costs to delivered F(?)OB UK Port. Payment -------- Every vehicle is built specifically to customer order and our payment terms are simply three equal payments: one third deposit with order, one third at start of production and the balance on completion prior to shipment. Delivery --------- Due to the popularity of our URBAN ROVER programme, production is usually fully booked with delivery about 10-12 weeks after confirmation of order. If you require delivery of your vehicle earlier than this do contact us so that we can try to assist. My thoughts: First, L11,250? That is _way_ out my realm of financial possibility. They state that they don't "just sell 'used' Land Rovers." I wish they did. That's what I'm looking for. And the thought of a Land Rover with a "luxury interior" makes me laugh. I'd love to see what that means in reality. So, the search goes on. Both Mike Rooth and Sandy Grice suggested that I try some of the other dealers found in LRO Magazine, but unfortunately my subscription won't start for a while. So, I was wondering if a current subscriber would be so kind as to mail me a few examples from the lastest issue? It would at least give me some place to start. Thanks, Grettir From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 10:22:28 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 94 11:06:25 -0400 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Trakkers? & Progress Report Status: RO Does anyone have experience with the Trakkers seats? I'm specifically interested in the "high back dickie" forward facing jumpseat. When folded, does this seat take up significantly more space than a regular bench jumpseat? I'm a little concerned at using this seat on my 88" because I think it may detract a bit from the "look and feel" of a '68 IIa. Originally, I figured that the stock jumpseat would be fine, as it would only be doing duty as an occassional seat. I've realized though that the primary occassion for its use would be ski trips, and other lengthy journeys. Obviously, a foward facing bucket seat is better suited to this task. It looks like I'll even have shoulder harnesses for these rear seats because of a change in my roll-bar spec. Originally a NATO surplus roll-bar was to be installed, but we discovered that it would not allow the hard top to be mounted. Roverworks then designed a bar, being fabricated locally, that was similar, but would allow the top to go on. This custom roll-bar is better than the NATO unit because its frame mounted rather than just attaching to the body. (Apparently, there exists a military study "proving" that a body mounted roll bar is adequate.) All went well with this installation until it came time to mount the angled support struts. It seems that these struts would have screwed up the tool box which is being fabricated for the rear. No biggie, we're now building a "roll-cage" similar to that on a Jeep Wrangler. The only problem with that is that tall people in the stock jumpseats will find their head colliding with the front/rear member of the cage. Hence, the decision to (probably) go with the forward facing jumpseat. The front/rear member also gives an anchor point for shoulder harnesses. My front shoulder harnesses (now upgraded to new retractable type) will anchor to the roll bar. Comments? Suggestions? Complaints or praises for the Trakker product? Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. Jimmy Buffett == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 09:39:49 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 09:30:54 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Additions to Rover Web Status: RO I have added an events listing to the Rover Web. It now contains the following upcoming events - OVLR May and June events and the US National Rally in August. http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 11:06:14 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 11:44:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Sender: Steven M Denis Reply-To: Steven M Denis Subject: Sex change To: landrovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Greetings, race fans. I have a riddle for you. If you choose to ride this mechanical bull with it's crotch slung with hemp rope, you may get the prize, Vanna show them what they have won. Here is the rub. While I was matriculating in the bathroom the other day poring over my LRO, I was distracted from my private time with little Jim and the separated at birth twins by a jolt. Not amperage, not seismic, not cosmic, and nobody intruded, sending megadoses of epinephrine coursing through my circulatory system and my Levis going up like the World Trade center elevator. It was the fractionating recollection of the railroad tracks vs. 109 at 52.446 mph. Can you say boom? No *BOOOOOOOM* Hello, Dr. Sugarman DDS, I would like to schedule an appointment. The angle of incidence equals the angle of refraction, kind-of and it hurt. There is still hair on the headliner. Solution Says I, coitus springs. I mean like y'know a 110. The chase, you ask, red in the face. What is the *real* difference between a rolling 110 chassis and a rolling 109 chassis. I want to bag the archaic, orthodontically threatening suspension for the much, much, better than new and improved chassis and pogos. Has anyone performed or witnessed (Bill Clinton sexually harassing farm animals) this conversion (1963 109 2dr -> 110 2dr?) I would like to hear any sageness from my fellow devotees. Thank you for your input and interest Jared Silbersher PS sorry folks I got up from my terminal and he got on and,well you just raed the rest of the story...... But if I let him use my system,he will not get his own,and I can limit his access to the net!!!!! steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 11:11:44 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 94 09:01:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rear oil seals Status: RO In message Steven M Denis writes: > Well you can't replace the seal without taking off the hub...so the nuts > and washers have to come off....many people reuse the lock > washer...Everybody *except* "Capt.Terriann"........ > metal fatigue has never been something I like to deal with. But seriously, the Green Rover was in very bad condition when I towed her home for the first time. Many of her mechanical parts were badly worn. many bolts were lose or missing. Since I needed her on line as soon as possible, i just did what it took to get her running. Over the years, every time I fixed something on her I make a point to do a little extra so that she was in a little better condition than before whatever broke. Another thing I learned over the years is that parts break. Worn parts break more frequently. If you can't afford to have a working car off line (The goats would have rebelled if I had no hay to feed them), you put in new parts whenever you see wear. And you do not reuse metal parts you need to bend each time you use them. Some cars have to work for a living (mine did) and that extra bit of insurance keeps them reporting to work more often and gives you a better chance of getting home. > rgds > steve.. May I assume you reuse your cotter pins too? > > HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" > > Steven M. Denis > PO BOX 61 > Erieville,NY 13061 > > > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 11:58:55 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 12:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rear oil seals Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO Thanks everyone, for all the info. I think I have all the bases covered now, Hopefully this will go with no glitches. BUT--- you must remember that "MURPHY LURKS"in the most unexpected places. and it is friday the thirteenthhh. Oh god see you in roverworld. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 12:02:15 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 12:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rear oil seals Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Status: RO Thanks everyone, for all the info. I think I have all the bases covered now, Hopefully this will go with no glitches. BUT--- you must remember that "MURPHY LURKS"in the most unexpected places. and it is friday the thirteenthhh. Oh god see you in roverworld. Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 21:41:27 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Additions to Rover Web To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 20:30:48 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <199405131428.JAA17446@smtp.utexas.edu> from "Greg Hiner" at May 13, 94 09:30:54 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 498 Sender: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu Status: RO Thanks to Greg for maintaining a pretty neat Rover Web! If your system does not support WWW (World Wide Web) -- as mine does not -- you may want to telnet to a public broswer site that does, such as: info.cern.ch www.njit.edu ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu Then use the Go command to get to Greg Hiner's Rover Web: http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500 T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 14 10:00:29 1994 Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 07:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: .lrr To: Vance Chin Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405122256.AA05511@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I assume you are talking about the back-up light switch. Take a look in the Optional Parts Catalog. As I recaall there is a drawing that shows the wiring harness for the back-up light. Almost certainly one wire from the switch goes to "switched" power (probably at the fuse box) and the other to the lights themselves. The lights are grounded. BTW, looks like the trip to Seattle is off 'till July so I won't be able to try and dig out the old overdrive (and, as came to mind, the little bits I probably didn't bother keeping track of) 'till then. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 01:07:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: KINGPINS From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 14:19:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > We are talking the 18th of June, no? Nigel isn't exactly equipped with > mud tyres (he's got skimpy 6.50 x 16 michelin road tyres on him), but I > do realize that I'll have to make a go of it. Nigel is willing to go > anywhere the Swamp Beast goes, providing: Ted Rose has radials on his, and the results are amazing... The week after last years party (which we never made it completely through the trail) Ted, George, Rob Ferguson, and myself did the entire trail ourselves. Ted was the only person to get through everything without getting stuck and requiring winching. (Bastard...) Tires are important, but the driving style is just so. > 1) Georges 109 isn't still sunk in front of him. We will have a rocket launcher is George gets stuck, along with cameras and the threat of lots of photos if he does... George now has genuine SIII wires on the Big Earth Pig, so the Honda shit is history. This was the cause of 99% of his troubles... > 2) You got a decent winch and all the rope in Ontario. We have winches, lots of them... What do you want behind you? Electric, pto, Koenig, capstan? We got 'em all. We have hauser, really big stuff too. > 3) You got a bilge pump. For what? To empty the air filtre? Sounds like Nige is a wuse and doesn't like to get wet. If the pump is to clean nige of, well... we could probably find you some perfumed car cleaner... > 4) You put the matches away. Agreed... > 5) Cold frostys are waiting on the other side. Required equipment in all Land Rovers is frostys going into the woods. That there are some when one gets out is obvious... :-) > 6) I get to drag Robin through it! *:} Don't know about this one. Besides, Robin will probably be looking to take action photo, so Ted and I can extend our competition to others. More fun this way... :-) > aye?, Aye, ready, aye! Rgds, Dixon PS. Front driveshalf/transfer case is making sick sounds... :-( -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 15 01:39:03 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 15 May 94 02:29:10 EDT Subject: Jed's Post Status: RO Man.. for a minute I thought Steve Denis was inhaling Diesel fumes again until I realized it was just Jed at the keyboard.. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 01:07:02 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 08:48:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO IN A RECENT MESSAGE MR RUSSEL DUSHIN STATES THAT HE WILL ATTEND THE OVLR RALLY ON A NUMBER OF PROVISOS. NUMBER SIX I HIS LIST IS THAT HE CAN DRAG ME THROUGH THE MUD. THIS GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT HE KNOWS ME AND HAS A SCORE TO SETTLE. I HAVE NEVER MET THE MAN AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE IS REFERING TO ROBIN CRAIG, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 01:07:54 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: KINGPINS From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 00:17:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > We are talking the 18th of June, no? Nigel isn't exactly equipped with > mud tyres (he's got skimpy 6.50 x 16 michelin road tyres on him), > > 1) Georges 109 isn't still sunk in front of him. An update... Saturday, Dave Meadows came out to Almonte to pick up some parts and made a fascinating discovery, one that we had not even thought to check out. George has two of the tires on his 109 on backwards... :-) No wonder he got stuck six feet in, in his traditional spot last weekend. If he has at least gotten all of them wrong, he could have good traction backwards away from all of those challenging bits that he has to perpetually winch his way through. Saturday evening he was in fine form (lots of ale) discussing how we would never do as well as his off-road disaster the "Big Earth Pig". In the event that we want to ram him out of the way, he has changed the front bumper for a 1/4" thich 6x6 steel tube which is going to double as the resevoir for his hydraulic pump. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 03:36:23 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: your mail To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Mon, 16 May 94 9:21:17 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405131921.PAA26304@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at May 13, 94 3:22 pm Status: RO > > > > > Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... > > hmm. why is it i am always so "bold". > > > >needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just > > >cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole > > >cover, as opposed to a dime). > > > > I always wondered about that -- say you have good shoes that are > > oil covered -- you take them off and clean them up -- first in > > kerosene and then in say, acetone. Would they be ok. Does the > > oil soak into the lining. In the past I wanted to do that, but > > feared it wouldn't work. So I tossed some good shoes cause I > > didn't want the chance that I might have to do the job twice. > > Any experience on this, netters? > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > > I cleaned 'em up with gobs 'o brake cleaner. Though they may not be > as good as new (well, two were actually new the first time I did the > seals...'till they got leaked on) they don't seem to be *that* much > worse than new. It isn't like Nigel can lock 'em up (no power assist > here).......the manhole cover is good enough for me. > > rd/nigel > > > > I did mine with a blowtorch(propane).They *were* the bonded variety, rather than rivetted.Same with the brake drum.Worked OK. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 06:07:12 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 16 May 94 06:53:32 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: <199405111348.JAA07607@transfer.stratus.com> From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 12 May 94 01:31:03 GMT To: car-list-rejects@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Received: from wings by attmail; Wed May 11 13:31 GMT 1994 Subject: Wagons From England Content-Type: Text Grettir Writes: >> I'm looking for a 1967-1969 Series IIa 109 Station Wagon with a tropical roof and a frame that isn't going to have to be replaced for at least a few years. Such a vehicle is not an easy thing to find in the U.S. And despite what the FAQ says, the average going rate for such a vehicle in the heartland of the U.S. is about $6,000-$7,000US. So, I've been thinking. Since I'm having a hard time finding anything on this side of the pond, why not fly to England, purchase a vehicle there, and ship it back to the states? The theory being that for that same $6000 I can get a better vehicle (having more to choose from) and, as an added bonus, I get the novelty of right-hand drive. (A pain at drive-up windows, but think of the advantage in parallel parking.) Well, that's the theory. What's the reality? I've seen discussions about importing vehicles on this list in the past, but I haven't heard of anyone who has actually done it. I assume if I stay pre-1970 I should be able to get past the EPA and DOT restrictions. But here are a few basic questions: Are pre-1970 109's readily available in the U.K? I know that an 88 would be easier to find, but I've got my heart set on a 109. And here in the U.S., (which is probably _not_ a good indicator is this case) pre-1970 cars are not necessarily easy to find here. So, how does one go about finding one in the U.K.? I assume that the copies of LRO we get over here are a few months old by the time they arrive, so the classifies may not be of much use. Are there dealers in the U.K. that carry vehicles that old on a regular basis? What's the current going rate for such a vehicle? I'm budgeting around $800 for the plane ticket, and roughly $1200 for the shipping home. That leaves me $4000US for the vehicle. Is that enough for a respectable 109? >> Grettir, What you propose sounds fine as from what I've read in the LRO magazine, $4000 US will by you a very good IIA 109. They had an article awhile back on converting from RHD to LHD. As I recall the estimated cost was L500. I'm not sure if this was with new or used parts. It may be worth your while to do this over there. You'll want something with a registration of 1967 or earlier. Otherwise you'll have big problems getting it in. If you do this get as much of the work/parts done before you ship the vehicle. You might even consider having a new galvanized frame and new suspension installed before shipping it. It is much less than here and you could save a bundle, even with the installation. Hopefully other folks on the net will have even more info for you. Good Luck! Bill Maloney Thanks Bill Maloney. ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 06:50:42 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: OEM and clutches in particular... To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 12:37:36 +0000 (BST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 631 Status: RO > (my clutch lining has bits 'o metal in it, while the genuine bit is made > up-so I am told-of pure asbestos. Since I don't intend to put a lip-lock on > my bell housing anytime soon, I want to get the as-best-os one I can.) Does anyone know of any technical reasons why the one might be superior to the other? The Borg & Beck clutch I recently fitted also has these fine strands of (gold-coloured) wire in the friction lining - what purpose do they serve? More generally, does anyone know whether asbestos linings (for brake shoes as well as clutches) are to be preferred over asbestos-free types, or vice versa? Marcus. From dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Fri May 13 14:20:41 1994 From: Russell G. Dushin Subject: Re: Breathers To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 94 15:21:11 EDT Cc: lro@transfers.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405131617.AA15405@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at May 13, 94 11:17 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... hmm. why is it i am always so "bold". > >needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just > >cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole > >cover, as opposed to a dime). > > I always wondered about that -- say you have good shoes that are > oil covered -- you take them off and clean them up -- first in > kerosene and then in say, acetone. Would they be ok. Does the > oil soak into the lining. In the past I wanted to do that, but > feared it wouldn't work. So I tossed some good shoes cause I > didn't want the chance that I might have to do the job twice. > Any experience on this, netters? > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 I cleaned 'em up with gobs 'o brake cleaner. Though they may not be as good as new (well, two were actually new the first time I did the seals...'till they got leaked on) they don't seem to be *that* much worse than new. It isn't like Nigel can lock 'em up (no power assist here).......the manhole cover is good enough for me. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 14:39:43 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: KINGPINS To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 13 May 94 15:32:37 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4Py9Lc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at May 13, 94 1:38 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > PS, So, like, Nige going to be able to handle some real mud by the > 18th? > > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada We are talking the 18th of June, no? Nigel isn't exactly equipped with mud tyres (he's got skimpy 6.50 x 16 michelin road tyres on him), but I do realize that I'll have to make a go of it. Nigel is willing to go anywhere the Swamp Beast goes, providing: 1) Georges 109 isn't still sunk in front of him. 2) You got a decent winch and all the rope in Ontario. 3) You got a bilge pump. 4) You put the matches away. 5) Cold frostys are waiting on the other side. 6) I get to drag Robin through it! *:} aye?, rd/danige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 13:47:11 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 15:36:58 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Subject: for sale Status: RO Anyone with a a day or two drive of Nova Scotia (Canada) might be interested in the following ad which came out today. "1955 Land Rover 4X4, will trade for 3 or 4 wheeler. 902-783-2567 after 5pm" It's a few counties away from here, and I have not phoned the person. All I know is what the ad says. If he want to trade for the above I could guess the price is some where between $1000 and $2000 Can. Just a guess. I might phone this weekend sometime, if I do I'll post other details. David Spencer From twakeman@apple.com Fri May 13 14:44:03 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 94 12:42:12 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, Russell@apple.com, G.@apple.com, Dushin@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com, Land-Rover-Owners@apple.com, FORUM@apple.com Subject: Re: Breathers Status: RO In message <9405131617.AA15405@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> writes: > Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... > >needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just > >cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole > >cover, as opposed to a dime). > I don't understand why you guys just don't disassemble the breathers, clean them out, reassemble them & pop them back on. There is not a whole lot to them. They are easy to disassemble & certainly as good as new when cleaned. Mind you I would not try to clean one if it was not disassembled. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 14:54:05 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 94 12:42:12 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, Russell@apple.com, G.@apple.com, Dushin@apple.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com, Land-Rover-Owners@apple.com, FORUM@apple.com Subject: Re: Breathers Status: RO In message <9405131617.AA15405@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> writes: > Russell G. Dushin was bold enough to point out... > >needed was brand new. (Never did replace-just > >cleaned- the oil-saturated brake shoes. Nige stops on, well, a manhole > >cover, as opposed to a dime). > I don't understand why you guys just don't disassemble the breathers, clean them out, reassemble them & pop them back on. There is not a whole lot to them. They are easy to disassemble & certainly as good as new when cleaned. Mind you I would not try to clean one if it was not disassembled. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 14:57:18 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: OEM To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Fri, 13 May 94 15:49:20 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405131048.AA00603@it040.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at May 13, 94 11:47 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > It does NOT mean original equipment, nor should it be confused with "genuine > > parts"....all it means is that the manufacturer that markets the OEM bits > > also makes the genuine part, BUT that manufacturer CANNOT BY LAW use the > > same materials to make that part. > > I think this is potentially a very contentious subject. Since it is extremely > unlikely that there is, in England at least, any act of parliament which > specifically addresses this issue, the matter could only be addressed in terms > of the law of contract, on the basis of the specific details of the contract > between the manufacturer and LR. Do those blokes in parliament actually *ever* get anything done?? Not that our system *works* either, but each time I see them on the tele (yes, we do actually get to see them in action over here-what a trip!) all I see and hear is a group moan and groan fest. *Quite* amusing. (Almost beats mike rooth's writings, but not quite.) > > To claim that manufacturesr *cannot by law* use the same materials is a little etc. yes, agreed. I think the *law* comes in under LR contracts, which can surely only be applied in cases where different materials (eg the lining of my clutch) could conceivably be used, and where one has an advantage over another. (my clutch lining has bits 'o metal in it, while the genuine bit is made up-so I am told-of pure asbestos. Since I don't intend to put a lip-lock on my bell housing anytime soon, I want to get the as-best-os one I can.) > > I have been told by a UK dealer in both Genuine and OEM parts that LR source > their syncho assemblies for S.II/III from Bearmach in Cardiff, since Bearmach > buy much larger quantities than LR, and can consequently offer LR a better > price than the manufacturer. and this brings up a good point......just because a LR part may be "genuine" it doesn't make them original. LR always has the option of switching suppliers, and can still apply the "genuine" label. > > Try another.....OEM shocks contain nylon and fiber bits inside whereas > > genuine LR shocks have brass bushings..... > > Presumably, LR specifiy brass bushings; the fact that this particular company > think they can get away with using lesser materials for parts not supplied to > LR does not imply that all such companies do the same. nope. but it *does* mean that we should be aware of those that do. perhaps we can keep an eye out for inferior parts in the future..... > > There may well be numerous cases where this doesn't make a difference, but > > I wonder if those crappy plastic points I keep getting (from RN, no less) > > are OEM. > > Lucas points have been plastic for as long as I can remember...though I must > admit I'm only 30, so god knows what was used originally - I was 6 when my 109 > was built! Too bad no one makes bakalite points for them. > > The OEM versus "genuine" issue is an interesting one, and I'm sure there will > be many others with opinions on the subject - my parting shot, as it were, is > simply that I have had the experience of buying LR Genuine Parts and > discovering that they were exactly, and I mean *exactly*, identical to parts > supplied direct from the manufacturer. > > Marcus. > And perhaps there are cases where OEM (or some non-affiliated aftermarket) partsare actually *better* than genuine. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 15:03:45 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 15:53:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Any Comments? Status: RO >From: hannaman@cscns.com (Robert Hannaman) >Subject: LAND ROVER (HOW GOOD AN ENGINE?) >Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 04:55:02 GMT > >I was looking at the Land Rover "Discovery". What are the opinions on >this car. It has the same 3.9L engine the other Land Rovers have. I >remember hearing several years ago that this engine is just an ol' Buick >engine and is ancient technology. Is this so? > >I have been out of the car market for a while and was astounded to see a >12 MPG city epa estimate. The Toyota land cruiser (way out of my price >range) has a similar estimate. The toyota dealer says it all has to do >with the catalytic converter and emmisions controls. This doesn't seem >possible to me. Are people now burning half again as much gas for 10% >cleaner emmisions? :{ > >Regarding the Discovery: >I also noticed on the automatic transmission the gear shift-points are >set so low (about 2500 RPM) that the car felt like it had now power at >all whereas with the 5-speed manual, it felt about right. They seem to be >making a tough, sporty appearing car with an automatic transmission set >for a hearse. > > >Thanks for your comments. Robert From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 10:35:45 1994 Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 10:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Rear oil seals To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405131601.AA26737@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Reuse cotter pins! heavens no!!!!!!...I just find another bent rusty nail! .....You are absolutly correct about the" old parts get use to breaking syndrome"...Borderline parts have no place on any machine that is "needed" also I would say that any part that effects the safety of the vehcle or any one else's safety(!)can never be too "good"...However,I have reused parts(an old lock washer MAY be better than NO lock washer!)as,I would wager,has most everyone...Engines nuts that are not safety wired are never a problem because those "ships" never came back!..Bitter expirence that. Please consider my refrence to you in the most glowing terms..you do set an example to all of us!..It takes planning to have the correct parts on hand and great self-control to walk away from a repair if ALL the parts to do it correctly are not there..... (I guess this is a "sorry" if I offended) :-) :-] ;-} A "NUT" that's really cross threaded, steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 11:33:04 1994 Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:41:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Trakkers? & Progress Report To: Jeff Berg Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405131506.AA03931@acf2.NYU.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OH boy! I almost missed the roll bar bit! DO NOT ATTACH THE ROLL BAR TO THE FRAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you check with any sanctioning body,you will see that they specify that the roll bar be mounted to the BODY in any vehicle that has a body/frame construction...the reason for this is...listen up folks...YOU are attached to the body....yes? and if the body and frame should part company(YES it happens!! I spent 12 years as an appraser..saw it ALL!) You will have no protection! Also,and more importantly, picture a HARD rollover..the bar hits first.stopping the frame,the body mount fail...and YOU get crushed between the body and the rollbar that was there to protect you..The same thing holds true for seat belts..picture having the belts mounted through the seat box to the frame ,if there is any movement between the body and frame,the seatbelts will try to pull you through the seat box....You will break before the belt will.. The only way around all this is to make the seat attachment as strong as the roll bar and attached to the frame also...Lotsa work that... Sorry if I upset any one with this but......... Keeping the shiny side up, steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 11:40:37 1994 Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 12:00:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Sex change To: landrovers Cc: teriAnn wakeman In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Ok...Jed the un-bearable was asking in his own"special"way,if any one had reason to suspect that a 109 body could NOT be fitted with a 110 frame.. "GOTTA have those coils!" We know about the steering box difference,the engine /transmission location, handbrake, etc. He would like to take the 1963 109 2dr and up date it to 110 specs.....The 109 2dr actually started life as a 88sw....and he had a *BAD* wreck with it..(maybe THAT explains his rambling prose!) got a 109 rear chassis and box....do I hear a collective groan?.....and welded them together....It really is a sharp truck.. the fabrication job is*perfect* (Jed is a Nuclear Certified welder...super anti-nuke person...wanted to prove that"any a__hole could build a nuclear plant..look at me.") The 109 is fitted with a Mustang GT 5.0 engine....environmentaly sound idea,he says as it gets*much* better fuel economy AND lower emissions.....yeah right....The big area of trouble would be at the cowl area and the seat box/rear body mating area.. Has anyone done this conversion...SEEN this conversion...*HEARD* about this conversion?????? If so give a ring... we have a container comming back after the nationals and would like to know if he should be tossing in a 110 chassis.... off to see the wizard, steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 13:12:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: progress From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 13:02:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Over the weekend put the overdrive in. Also worked on the box and threw some old junk out like the old door tops - removed the glass first. Dixon came over to supervise and crack the whip. June 18 is only a month away. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 13:54:26 1994 Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 14:15:27 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: OEM vs. Genuine vs ? Status: RO Russell writes: >And perhaps there are cases where OEM (or some non-affiliated aftermarket) >parts are actually better than genuine. Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694 American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub. WRT brake/clutch parts with metal bits, this is a "modern" adaptation. As the asbestos content in brake and clutch linings has been reduced (and is being eliminated) by law, the metal binds the non-asbestos materials together...sometimes its referred to as "semi-metalic". *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 14:44:16 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 16 May 94 15:32:13 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at May 15, 94 8:48 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > IN A RECENT MESSAGE MR RUSSEL DUSHIN STATES THAT HE WILL ATTEND THE OVLR > RALLY ON A NUMBER OF PROVISOS. > > NUMBER SIX I HIS LIST IS THAT HE CAN DRAG ME THROUGH THE MUD. > > THIS GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT HE KNOWS ME AND HAS A SCORE TO SETTLE. > > I HAVE NEVER MET THE MAN AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE IS REFERING TO > > ROBIN CRAIG, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > Oops. Seems I may have upset the man. Guess it's time to patch this one up, else I'm gonna be greeted at the border with a blowtorch. Dearest Robin, This is your kind, loving, sweet, obnoxious, loud, new yawka friend calling. Yup, Russell Dushin, owner of Nigel, the guy with the pointy elbows that just bruised your ribs. Sorry 'bout that, chap. Didn't mean to get you in such a huff. I've always fancided that Canadians, by birth, can take their share of abuse, or else they'd never survive the northern winters nor be content driving american cars, and since I am in the habit of dishing it out to Dale and Dixon from time to time I figured you were next in line. Take it lightly, ol' pal. Score? Didn't know we were keeping it. Tied I suppose. What was the score in last nights Leef's game?? (Which brings to mind one of my favorite Canadian jokes-which all Canadians have heard, which makes it even better 'cause now I know it's true, and which I won't repeat 'cause it'll probably do more harm than good at this point....) Just what did you do to deserve such abuse, you ask?? Recall a week or so ago you hurled a message onto this list assaulting these cute little smiley face things, ;-), and derivations thereof, and while you were at it you slammed poor Jan Hilborn for getting her LR stuck in the mud, hard- core vermont mud, no less. Now, I've never met Jan (either, but I do know her tenant....say hi to Dirk for me), but perhaps you have. Nonetheless, I elected to stay directly out of the fray on that one since the last time I attempted to "defend" a woman on this list through my own way of "lending support" it backfired. (Remember that one, folks?? Hope not.) Instead, I shot back from another angle (did you read your mail? can you say "delete"?) since I presume I was the target, maybe not the primary one, of your assault on these things: *:|, and since I envy your toy collection (but shouldn't admit to it). So, in defense of my offense, I must kindly ask: 1) Do you know what vermont mud is really like?? (Kinda like Sudbury- the town of nickel mine slag for those non-canadians on the list-except that it sinks. It's usually found in the middle of the field that your driveway runs through, far from any trees or posts from which you can winch yourself out.) 2) Do you realize that it only takes two stuck wheels out of four driven wheels to get stuck in a LR? 3) Have you ever got one of your (toy) land rovers stuck in the mud? *:}. 4) Don't you realize we *all* despise the "have a nice day" philosophy on life? Ya know, this one: :). Personally, I subscribe to the "what goes around, comes around" concept (here it comes, and goes, again). 5) Do you oftimes get a bloody nose?? (We all know Dixon's feelings on this, which sounded to me more like it was meant for an albertan logger's camp altercation, but distinctly canadian-and amusing-nonetheless.) 6) Whatup with the "one more of these and I am outa here" approach to controlling what is and is not posted? Clearly there are things that get posted that some of us enjoy thoroughly, and some do not. Some are far more serious about this list than others. Some want nothing but questions and answers about the mechanics of their LR's, some want coil sprung talk, others content with talking about SI-III, while others (me included) like to hear about OVLR antics, Mike Rooth's reminiscing, and those in search of Nigel's *exact* coordinates. Like it or not we are all on this list until either we (voluntarily) or Bill G. (unvoluntarily) removes us. So stick with it, keep 'em coming, and roll with the punches. If you leave, we all loose, but if you really think about it I s'poze you'll find that you loose the most, 'cause then there's no one out hear listening to the weekly crap (good crap, I might add) that you espound. 7) If you are *still* sore at me, ask Dixon to buy you a case 'o 50's, for which I will glady repay him in June (should I be *still* invited), slug a few down, then ask him to smack you around a bit. Take a few deep breaths, regain your senses, finish the case, finish another, and wake up the next moring with an entirely clean slate. *Nothing* really happened here, folks, this is just all in good fun, so there's no sense remembering it. aye? rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 15:21:22 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: OEM vs. Genuine vs ? To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Mon, 16 May 94 16:11:26 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00731457.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 16, 94 2:15 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Sandy writes (in response to something I wrote) > >And perhaps there are cases where OEM (or some non-affiliated aftermarket) > >parts are actually better than genuine. > > Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694 > American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece > along the same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing > compound already applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing > shop. While we're mucking about the hubs, lock tab washers: International > Harvester #860291R1 have a little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub. Nice to know. Incidentally, the lock tabs from LR (RN at least) also have the foot (how else could it function properly?), but really good to know you could get them locally if in a pinch. > WRT brake/clutch parts with metal bits, this is a "modern" adaptation. As > the asbestos content in brake and clutch linings has been reduced (and is > being eliminated) by law, the metal binds the non-asbestos materials > together...sometimes its referred to as "semi-metalic". .....and if you had a 34 year old flywheel and pressure plate, both of which were probably replacable, but at considerable cost, would you rather have a good ol' environmentally unsound asbestos or a new fangled (and soon to mangle) semi-metallic driven plate scrunching up against them every time you released the clutch? I didn't check, but wouldn't be surprised, if the small amount of scoring I did have on my flywheel and pressure plate aligned perfectly with the "innocuous" bits of metal in my driven plate. cheers, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 15:39:31 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Rear oil seals To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Mon, 16 May 94 16:27:46 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at May 16, 94 10:59 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > Reuse cotter pins! heavens no!!!!!!...I just find another bent rusty nail! Just another Nigel anecdote on this one. Two summers ago, while attempting in vain to remove the nuts on his U-bolts that hold the springs on (they needed a good saw, since I lack a torch), I glanced down to see that the previous owner had put roofing nails in place of the large cotter pins that hold the shocks in. Hmm, I thought, seeing the bend in the well rusted nail about 1/2 inch from the end, "that might hurt, better watch out for it." Grimising, and doing one of these *:[, the ratchet slipped and within a millisecond or less I found myself fully attached to Nigel's shock mount. My left hand had become one with the dear fellow, leaving only my right hand to do the job of disconnecting it. Glancing down, as I had before, I saw that the bend in the nail was no longer visible, and there was this mysterious bump where my thumb used to leave my palm. Tried once to remove it. Nogo. Tried again, with another one of these *:[. Rested, still attached, and began to wonder if anyone up at the house (across the field, across the road, and up the hill) would hear me if I yelled. Wondered for a minute what Clint Eastwood would do in this instance..... then grabbed a hold of it, did one of these *:[], then these *:O, then it finally let loose. Parked my right thumb on the hole, got it over my head, walked home, washed it out, and called it a day. Needless to say a tetanus shot was on the way. rd/nigel (who bit me that day). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 09:46:11 1994 Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 10:37:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: KINGPINS (fwd) To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 13 May 94 10:30:46 BST >From: Mike Rooth To: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: KINGPINS Just a word on the kingpin subject if I may.You dont *really* need to do the spring balance/take off the track rod ends bit at all.I *know* thats what the manual says,but try this. With the wheel off,get hold of the brake backplate at the top and *push*.If the swivel assembly has play in it,you will be able to see relative movement between the swivel housing and the swivel ball.Sit on an upturned bucket or something,with a sixpack handy,and play at changing shims until you get the merest hint of relative movement.You've obviously got to have a little clearance for the system to work properly(otherwise stiff steering is the result).This method is not in any of the manuals,for obvious reasons,but I can assure you that not only does it work,I use it myself,*and* its much less hassle than pulling off ball joints and fiddling about with spring balances that are in all probability *not* emulating Caesars wife(or George Washinton,if you prefer). On a different note,I spent yesterday having my back cross member and rear chassis welded up (glum,glum) at a small country garage that I wot of.They had a '73 109" Safari for sale at 500 quid.A cursory look established that it was scruffy,as the bloke said it needed tidying up,sat on what were probably 9.00X16 tyres, and is probably a snip at the price. Whilst I was there,the nephew of the guy that was doing the welding,brought in his push pole for welding.He was pushing a traction engine(steam,weight 8 tons imp.)with his 200Tdi Defender 110,when he realised that the engines bunker was a bit closer to his bonnet than heretofore.Since I've known him for yonks,he got some old buck about ill-treatment of Land Rovers. His reply to this was that a 2.25 SWB petrol can move a 17 ton steam ploughing engine out of its shed,if you allow the Rover to rock the ploughing engine to and fro a bit *because its weight has, of course,dug it in a bit*.Oh well,naturally....... Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 13 14:38:03 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 14:09:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Vague news of LR for sale To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello - A person I met when in the Ozark Mtns found out I was interested in Land Rovers, and mentioned that there was one for sale, inexpensive, he thought, in Rolla, MO. Thats on rout 63 (maybe 64) south of Columbia. So if anyone lives in that area and want's to follow this up, it could be an opportunity. Good luck if anyone pursues it. Michael Ramage From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 23:09:25 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Diff locks To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz (Hugh Grierson) Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 13:31:21 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405170035.AA01043@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz> from "Hugh Grierson" at May 17, 94 12:25:53 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1916 Status: RO Hugh writes > Which prompts me to ask... a lockable rear diff must help in mud and > snow. You'd need to get three wheels stuck then so ruts wouldn't pose > the same problem (maybe I should just learn to drive properly...). So > does anyone make one, and is it _really_ such a good idea? I think so makes a big difference when climbing up steep rocky/rutted tracks. (or would you then just break axles even quicker?) 'Course I'm talking rover > diffs here, none of that late-model stuff. If used judiciously (sp) diff locks can reduce the risk of axle breakage, prevents one wheel spin-out etc. Of course if you hang the whole vehicle off of one diff locked driving wheel, first gear low range and give 'er the gas expect something to give. There are a number of people in OZ who make these things for rover diffs. The cheapest involves a modified flange with a bloody great bolt sticking out of the axle. Get out undo the bolt and bingo locked diff. Cheap primitive and effective (just like a land-rover :-) A more advanced version of this is vacuum operated. Made by Jack MacNamara, I think they advertise in Land Rover Owner. They include heavy duty axles in the kits. ARB air-lockers are available for the rover 4.7 diff. I think they are just Rangie ones with an adaptor or something, should be available in the US ?? Mal Story still makes his maxi-drive kits I think, his Sidewinder, ( a coil sprung 4 wheel steer 4 wheel diff locked land-rover) has to be seen to be believed. Front axle kits include/require a modified swivel housing to take sIII V8 cv joints as he feels that the uni-joints aren't strong enough. Some mob over here (I forget their name) make an Automatic locking diff for the rover type axles. A clone of the No-Spin "Detroit locker" heard good reports but wouldnt want one on a swb. Dont think it would turn too well. Cheers Daryl. dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 23:40:47 1994 From: jory@figment.mit.edu (Jory Bell) Subject: Re: Diff locks To: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 00:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405170401.AA18134@schooner.waite.adelaide.edu.au> from "Daryl Webb" at May 17, 94 01:31:21 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2116 Status: RO Could you provide more info on this Mal Story and his "maxidrive" or "sidewinder" kits? thanks, -jory > > Hugh writes > > > Which prompts me to ask... a lockable rear diff must help in mud and > > snow. You'd need to get three wheels stuck then so ruts wouldn't pose > > the same problem (maybe I should just learn to drive properly...). So > > does anyone make one, and is it _really_ such a good idea? > > I think so makes a big difference when climbing up steep rocky/rutted tracks. > > (or would you then just break axles even quicker?) 'Course I'm talking rover > > diffs here, none of that late-model stuff. > > If used judiciously (sp) diff locks can reduce the risk of axle breakage, > prevents one wheel spin-out etc. Of course if you hang the whole vehicle > off of one diff locked driving wheel, first gear low range and give 'er the > gas expect something to give. > > > There are a number of people in OZ who make these things for rover diffs. > > The cheapest involves a modified flange with a bloody great bolt sticking out > of the axle. Get out undo the bolt and bingo locked diff. Cheap primitive > and effective (just like a land-rover :-) A more advanced version of this is > vacuum operated. Made by Jack MacNamara, I think they advertise in Land > Rover Owner. They include heavy duty axles in the kits. > > ARB air-lockers are available for the rover 4.7 diff. I think they are just > Rangie ones with an adaptor or something, should be available in the US ?? > > Mal Story still makes his maxi-drive kits I think, his Sidewinder, ( a coil > sprung 4 wheel steer 4 wheel diff locked land-rover) has to be seen to be > believed. Front axle kits include/require a modified swivel housing to take > sIII V8 cv joints as he feels that the uni-joints aren't strong enough. > > Some mob over here (I forget their name) make an Automatic locking diff for > the rover type axles. A clone of the No-Spin "Detroit locker" heard good > reports but wouldnt want one on a swb. Dont think it would turn too well. > > Cheers > > Daryl. > > dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 02:59:45 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Diff locks and Mal Story To: jory@figment.mit.edu (Jory Bell) Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 17:19:32 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) In-Reply-To: <9405170433.AA26596@figment.mit.edu> from "Jory Bell" at May 17, 94 00:33:22 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 832 Status: RO Jory asks > > Could you provide more info on this Mal Story and his > "maxidrive" or "sidewinder" kits? The "sidewinder" is not a kit as such just a vehicle mal built for himself. I think I still have some info from him (I never bought anything from him or any of the other mobs mentioned in the last post, just couldnt afford it in the end). But... As the more astute list members will have noticed my new address is on the bottom of Australia not the top as it used to be. My gear is still coming down and wont be here for a few more weeks, then I have to unpack and ... and... I'll do my best but dont hold your breath. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 04:26:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: stuck Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 10:17:10 UNDEFINED Status: RO >sister's Sable and off we went. When we got there, Kurt's Land Rover was >stuck down a section of raod >Attempt one. >The theory was to lift the front wheels off the ground and push the truck >over on the jack to get a new footing. The jack just sunk into the mud, >with me saying " it has to hit something sometime". I was wrong. >Canadian mud is very thick and has great suction. It took us half an >hour to just get the jack out of the mud. What about teh old chestnut of using the spare wheel as a floater and jacking off that? >Attempt two. >Toe strap around a fence post, attached to one end of Jack-all, chain >attached ot other end and to truck, and jack. this works like a manual >8000 pound winch. It took two of us to haul on this thing, and two >lengths on the jack, and we pulled it out. We also moved the fence post >five inches. This all before sunset, so I got pics. Or if there isnt a fencepost, bury the spare wheel nice and deep in teh mud and use it as a deadman to winch from? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 20:33:20 1994 Subject: Diff locks To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 17 May 94 12:25:53 NZT From: Hugh Grierson In-Reply-To: <199405161931.PAA16227@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at May 16, 94 3:32 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 819 Status: RO rd writes... > 2) Do you realize that it only takes two stuck wheels out of four driven > wheels to get stuck in a LR? Which prompts me to ask... a lockable rear diff must help in mud and snow. You'd need to get three wheels stuck then so ruts wouldn't pose the same problem (maybe I should just learn to drive properly...). So does anyone make one, and is it _really_ such a good idea? (or would you then just break axles even quicker?) 'Course I'm talking rover diffs here, none of that late-model stuff. Oh yeah, and while I'm writing, what can be done about sloppy prop-shaft splines? I'm fitting new U-joint bearings tonight but the splines have got way too much lash in them (as have the rear axle-hub splines actually). This must stress the hell out of the rest of the transmission eh? Hugh '67 IIA 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 08:00:00 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: OEM and clutches in particular... To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 13:43:20 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405161329.AA27673@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at May 16, 94 02:29:32 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 215 Status: RO > I believe the friction material is called Ferodo. > Cheers > Mike Rooth Err...I always thought Ferodo was a manufacturer of brake and clutch parts - their bits come in silver boxes with a red logo... Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 08:41:14 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 17 May 94 23:47:35 GMT To: lro@stratus.com, land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: New ID Content-Type: Text Status: RO Bill, Sorry if you get this more than once. My mail to the car-list keeps rejecting back and none of my incoming mail has been forwarded. Please change my ID from to or whatever appears in the header for my return address. Thanks, Bill Maloney 201-564-2073 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 10:42:51 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: OEM and clutches in particular... To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Tue, 17 May 94 16:29:49 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405171243.AA00350@it045.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at May 17, 94 1:43 pm Status: RO > > > I believe the friction material is called Ferodo. > > Cheers > > Mike Rooth > > Err...I always thought Ferodo was a manufacturer of brake and clutch parts - > their bits come in silver boxes with a red logo... > > Marcus. > > > Yep..dead right.But I think they *invented* the stuff.Bit like Hoover, household name.At any event,it was always called Ferodo in this neck of the woods.There was possibly a patent involved at some stage?Good theory, anyway. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 14:17:45 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Tue, 17 May 94 15:05:15 EST Encoding: 1456 Text To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, "Russell G. Dushin" Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re[2]: your mail Content-Length: 1418 Status: RO Russell writes: (edited for brevity) > Clearly there are things that get posted that some of us enjoy thoroughly, and > some do not. Some are far more serious about this list than others. Some > want nothing but questions and answers about the mechanics of their LR's, some > want coil sprung talk, others content with talking about SI-III, while others > (me included) like to hear about OVLR antics, Mike Rooth's reminiscing, and > those in search of Nigel's *exact* coordinates. Well, what's needed here is a cheap and obvious attempt to change the subject. So, here goes... I am one of the more loony participants on this list because 1. I enjoy almost all of the banter and 2. I have never and don't yet own a LR. My participation in this list is therefore quite vexing to family members and employers, as they fully recognize the convergent wackiness of computer geekgom and Land Rover worship ;-) This leads to statements like "But you don't own a LR..." Yea, I know, but I wanna... So what's the point? (notice how I carefully moved us away from whatever it was we were talking about before?) Well, two things...I'm hoping to buy a new Discovery in the next 12 months *and* the point of this posting... I particularly enjoy reading "Mike Rooth's reminiscing" and look forward to reading more. Also enjoy, uh, good natured, ribbings, but only those that don't offend... Back to work. Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 16:07:35 1994 From: K Schmidt Subject: stuck To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 16 May 94 16:40:10 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO This was posted about a week ago and I haven't had a chance to respond... > > Kurt, who is on this list, has the honour of being the first on that I know of to be stuck in the mud this spring. He phoned me up and asked if I had any experience freeing stuck LRs and if I had any equipment he could borrow. I gathered up the Jack-all, chain, tow strap, cables, traction bars. My Land Rover is still in pieces *sob*. I borrowed my sister's Sable and off we went. When we got there, Kurt's Land Rover was stuck down a section of raod road that was between two normal roads, one of which was the gravel bed of a highway in construction, now on hold, that Kurt was trying to get to. Well, beside any highway, there is a drainage ditch, which is exactly where he was stuck. When he told me he was stuck, he neglected to tell me that there was an inch of water over the mud. Attempt one. The theory was to lift the front wheels off the ground and push the truck over on the jack to get a new footing. The jack just sunk into the mud, with me saying " it has to hit something sometime". I was wrong. Canadian mud is very thick and has great suction. It took us half an hour to just get the jack out of the mud. Attempt two. Toe strap around a fence post, attached to one end of Jack-all, chain attached ot other end and to truck, and jack. this works like a manual 8000 pound winch. It took two of us to haul on this thing, and two lengths on the jack, and we pulled it out. We also moved the fence post five inches. This all before sunset, so I got pics. Looking at that mud, anyone could have got stuck there. The only casualty were my boots, which were full of water. They will dry. Since it was not my LR that was stuck, I had a pretty good time. Dale > > I just wanted to extend my thanks to Dale... He's part of OVLR and I've only met him on a few occasions, I called him up to ask for some ideas on how to get my LR out of the ditch and he ended up driving me back to pull me out of trouble! I hope that other clubs have members that help each other out like this cause it truely appreciated by those who need it. I did teach me to make sure that you have means to get yourself out of where you go off-roading _before_ you go -- I was lucky it was only a 45 minute walk into town! (was a fun time just the same) Thanks again Dale! Kurt ps. I need to get those pictures! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 22:14:37 1994 Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 12:12:46 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Diff locks X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 2358 Status: RO I have a Quaife locking diff in my '64 88 that was sold for a while by DAP. It is like the "Detroit Locker" and I heard that they could not be sold in the US anymore because of patent infringement, but I don't know for sure. It works really great, it is one of the best things I've added. There was a bit of trouble with it a while back though. As I was draining the oil in the diff, I noticed a "lump" drop out. So I pulled the diff and all four of the bolts that hold the Quaife together had unscrewed and had the heads sheared off. Except for a little chipping and pitting everything else was OK, so I replaced the bearings and bolts and put it back in. Since the bolts were Whitworth I had to make new ones (1/2-14, grade 8) and yes I did torque them up GOOD and put "forever" Loctite on the theads. Fellow Rover'ers often wonder how I just idle through puddles they just got winched out of. It's my little secret. I can't help but believe that that it helps with axle life. I have not broken one since I put it in. A drive shaft rebuilder can replace the spline. The quote here in the SF bay area was US$150, that included new U-joints. Which by the way is one of those parts that can be had at any US/CDN auto parts store. They are the same as some Chevy trucks. AEC 504 is the little one (pre ~66) and AEC 521HD is the big (later) one. or Just take the old ones in and match 'em up. Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 16 18:26 PDT 1994 > Subject: Diff locks > To: lro@stratus.com > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 819 > X-Lines: 19 > > > Which prompts me to ask... a lockable rear diff must help in mud and > snow. You'd need to get three wheels stuck then so ruts wouldn't pose > the same problem (maybe I should just learn to drive properly...). So > does anyone make one, and is it _really_ such a good idea? (or would > you then just break axles even quicker?) 'Course I'm talking rover > diffs here, none of that late-model stuff. > > Oh yeah, and while I'm writing, what can be done about sloppy prop-shaft > splines? I'm fitting new U-joint bearings tonight but the splines have > got way too much lash in them (as have the rear axle-hub splines actually). > This must stress the hell out of the rest of the transmission eh? > > Hugh > '67 IIA 88" > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 17:29:45 1994 Date: Tue, 17 May 94 15:00:43 PDT From: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Discovery Info wanted Cc: @lsil.com:edwang@up171 Status: RO I just joined this list for my x. She is in the process of buying a LR Discovery. So my questions are: 1. Is the MSRP price negotiable? She said LR dealer has no markups thus no negotiation, period. Is that true? If not does regualr 84% of MSRP apply to LR. 2. What's your pros. and cons. to a 94 LR Discovery? 3. How's the Disc's general quanlity? 4. Does any owner feel unhappy about Disc's solid front axle? Most of SUV's got IFS. 5. Anything to look out for? Any info is greatly appreciated. Ps she won't go offroading for sure, I do go, but not in her LR. She is buying this just for the look. Any comments? Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 edwang@up171.lsil.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 01:03:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: your mail From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 19:53:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > Oops. Seems I may have upset the man. Guess it's time to patch this one > up, else I'm gonna be greeted at the border with a blowtorch. Not a chance... :-) You are more than welcome up here, as is anyone who wishes to come partake in the glorious mud and antics of some of OVLR in action. SOme of it is a sight to behold. > such a huff. I've always fancided that Canadians, by birth, can take their > share of abuse, or else they'd never survive the northern winters nor be > content driving american cars, and since I am in the habit of dishing it > out to Dale and Dixon from time to time I figured you were next in line. Please! Let us keep things straight here. Robin is a transplanted Brit. He hasn't been in Canada long enough to be hardened by our winters yet. > Score? Didn't know we were keeping it. Tied I suppose. What was the score > in last nights Leef's game?? (Which brings to mind one of my favorite > Canadian jokes-which all Canadians have heard, which makes it even better > 'cause now I know it's true, and which I won't repeat 'cause it'll probably > do more harm than good at this point....) Let's hear them since Hockey season ended weeks ago when Montreal lost to Boston. God, five months till hockey night in Canada starts up again... > Just what did you do to deserve such abuse, you ask?? Robin is a babe in the electronic world. 'tis good that one gets introduced to the realities of things, like my 109 when the transfer box exploded this weeked while heavily abusing it in the wilds of Quebec. Sure, I'll have a spare, but considering the sickening sounds coming from it, I might as well see how well Sollihul built this one and what it is going to take to blow it up. (Actually it is starting to sound like a coffee grinder full of Brazil nuts right now, but lazyness, and a few extra spares kicking around here, has kept me from getting dirty.) > 1) Do you know what vermont mud is really like?? (Kinda like Sudbury- > the town of nickel mine slag for those non-canadians on the list-except > that it sinks. Sudbury was one of the spots the tested the moon-buggy in... Since then it is much nicer since they put up the super stack. I was recently reading that Norway is getting the stuff now... > 2) Do you realize that it only takes two stuck wheels out of four driven > wheels to get stuck in a LR? Unless you were like that LR (at RN?) that had front and rear lockers turned on in the mud... :-) > 7) If you are *still* sore at me, ask Dixon to buy you a case 'o 50's, Let me show you a particular letter that Robin sent out to the membership last year... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS. You sure you really don't want to be behind George? -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 19:51:00 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Discovery Info wanted To: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:27:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com, @lsil.com:edwang@up171 In-Reply-To: <9405172200.AA11667@up171.lsil.com> from "Ed Wang - 7837" at May 17, 94 03:00:43 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 813 Status: RO > > 4. Does any owner feel unhappy about Disc's solid front axle? Most > of SUV's got IFS. I'd be more unhappy with IFS (at least the common Jap variety with restrictive wheel travel) for off road use but.. > > Ps she won't go offroading for sure, I do go, but not in her LR. She is > buying this just for the look. Any comments? Shame to waste a disco like that, still it upholds the long Range rover tradition (flame proof suit on) and whats a Disco if it isnt just a cheaper version of the range rover (suit off) I'd swap my stage one for a disco any day (well the wife would anyway) Hey now thats an idea! The stage one certainly has "the look". I havent seen any of the new disco's but I've not heard of any problems with them. (old or new) -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 19:13:07 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Discovery Info wanted To: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:27:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com, @lsil.com:edwang@up171 In-Reply-To: <9405172200.AA11667@up171.lsil.com> from "Ed Wang - 7837" at May 17, 94 03:00:43 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 813 Status: RO > > 4. Does any owner feel unhappy about Disc's solid front axle? Most > of SUV's got IFS. I'd be more unhappy with IFS (at least the common Jap variety with restrictive wheel travel) for off road use but.. > > Ps she won't go offroading for sure, I do go, but not in her LR. She is > buying this just for the look. Any comments? Shame to waste a disco like that, still it upholds the long Range rover tradition (flame proof suit on) and whats a Disco if it isnt just a cheaper version of the range rover (suit off) I'd swap my stage one for a disco any day (well the wife would anyway) Hey now thats an idea! The stage one certainly has "the look". I havent seen any of the new disco's but I've not heard of any problems with them. (old or new) -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 17 20:03:43 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Discovery Info wanted To: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 09:27:20 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com, @lsil.com:edwang@up171 In-Reply-To: <9405172200.AA11667@up171.lsil.com> from "Ed Wang - 7837" at May 17, 94 03:00:43 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 813 Status: RO > > 4. Does any owner feel unhappy about Disc's solid front axle? Most > of SUV's got IFS. I'd be more unhappy with IFS (at least the common Jap variety with restrictive wheel travel) for off road use but.. > > Ps she won't go offroading for sure, I do go, but not in her LR. She is > buying this just for the look. Any comments? Shame to waste a disco like that, still it upholds the long Range rover tradition (flame proof suit on) and whats a Disco if it isnt just a cheaper version of the range rover (suit off) I'd swap my stage one for a disco any day (well the wife would anyway) Hey now thats an idea! The stage one certainly has "the look". I havent seen any of the new disco's but I've not heard of any problems with them. (old or new) -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 05:46:59 1994 Subject: Re: Discovery Info wanted To: edwang@lsil.com (Ed Wang - 7837) Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 10:44:33 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9405172200.AA11667@up171.lsil.com> from "Ed Wang - 7837" at May 17, 94 03:00:43 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3496 Status: RO Ed Wang - 7837 writes: > > I just joined this list for my x. She is in the process of buying a LR Discovery. > So my questions are: > > 1. Is the MSRP price negotiable? She said LR dealer has no markups thus > no negotiation, period. Is that true? If not does regualr 84% of MSRP apply to > LR. They seem to be able to sell every one that gets built with very little difficulty, so the tendency (in the UK) appears to be only make high spec models (except to order then quoute 6-9 months delivery), and don't give discounts because someone will buy it at full price fairly soon. > 2. What's your pros. and cons. to a 94 LR Discovery? 94 or 95? The vehicles introduced into North America and now available in the UK are what Land Rover call '95 model year vehicles. Normally model years run September to September, but this year the 94 model year was cut short, probably partly to incorporate changes for the North American market, and partly to make space around September/October for the new arrival. '95 model year vehicles appear to be a vast improvement cosmetically over the 94 models (except for the stupid tail lights - try following one I see if you spot the direction indicators being switched on). The new grille and bold lettering seem to suit the vehicle, and at last you can have a sensible grey interior! The 3.9 V-8 and the 4 speed auto are excellent. The jury is still out on the new 5 speed manual though - time will tell. > 3. How's the Disc's general quanlity? Improving, though with a hickup recently - the introduction of a complete newly recruited 3rd shift at the same time as the 94 to 95 model change was being made to the line caused quaility problems, as you would expect - I don't know what the quaulity was like once the dealers got the vehicles, but there was quite a lot of re-work going on. > 4. Does any owner feel unhappy about Disc's solid front axle? Most > of SUV's got IFS. It the same one that has been fitted to Range Rover for the past 25 years, and I don't hear any complaints from Range Rover owners, only the competition striving to match the Range Rovers on and off road abilities. > 5. Anything to look out for? Multi story car parks and car ferrys (if you have such things). Discovery is too high for most of our Multi Story car parks (and domestic garages for that matter), and since it is over 6 ft tall costs more to put onto a Car Ferry than an ordinary car or Range Rover :-) Since it is a new vehicle I believe the quality of the dealer is the most important factor. > Any info is greatly appreciated. Hope this helps, and doesn't put her off too much. I have always said I would buy a second hand Range Rover rather than a new Discovery, but with the 95 models it is getting more difficult to choose between them (unless I spot an air-suspension 100" Vogue SE (County) at the right price of course :-)) > Ps she won't go offroading for sure, I do go, but not in her LR. She is > buying this just for the look. Any comments? Five spoke alloy wheels look good, but a bull-bar spoils it IMHO. > Edward Wang (408) GEE-STEP Fax: (408) 954-4874 > > edwang@up171.lsil.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 06:25:36 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 18 May 94 23:13:02 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: MacGuiver Movie Content-Type: Text Status: RO Did anybody see MacGuiver this weekend? There was a scene where he escapes from a Bosnian type POW prison in a rocket propelled Series III 109 regular. Pretty entertaining. He opens the hood to find no engine. Solution: strap a couple of rockets sans warheads on the back and away they go. I'm not certain, but in the background it looked like the stacks and superstructure of the "powerplant?" that was featured on a Pink Floyd album a few years back, which would put it somewhere in England. But if that's the case, the plant must be shut down, because everything appeared to be in ruins. Sorry if this is old news. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com W-201-564-2073 H-201-835-1796 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 07:00:48 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 18 May 94 23:33:16 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Wagons From England Content-Type: Text Status: RO Grettir Writes: >> I'm looking for a 1967-1969 Series IIa 109 Station Wagon with a tropical roof and a frame that isn't going to have to be replaced for at least a few years. Such a vehicle is not an easy thing to find in the U.S. And despite what the FAQ says, the average going rate for such a vehicle in the heartland of the U.S. is about $6,000-$7,000US. So, I've been thinking. Since I'm having a hard time finding anything on this side of the pond, why not fly to England, purchase a vehicle there, and ship it back to the states? The theory being that for that same $6000 I can get a better vehicle (having more to choose from) and, as an added bonus, I get the novelty of right-hand drive. (A pain at drive-up windows, but think of the advantage in parallel parking.) Well, that's the theory. What's the reality? I've seen discussions about importing vehicles on this list in the past, but I haven't heard of anyone who has actually done it. I assume if I stay pre-1970 I should be able to get past the EPA and DOT restrictions. But here are a few basic questions: Are pre-1970 109's readily available in the U.K? I know that an 88 would be easier to find, but I've got my heart set on a 109. And here in the U.S., (which is probably _not_ a good indicator is this case) pre-1970 cars are not necessarily easy to find here. So, how does one go about finding one in the U.K.? I assume that the copies of LRO we get over here are a few months old by the time they arrive, so the classifies may not be of much use. Are there dealers in the U.K. that carry vehicles that old on a regular basis? What's the current going rate for such a vehicle? I'm budgeting around $800 for the plane ticket, and roughly $1200 for the shipping home. That leaves me $4000US for the vehicle. Is that enough for a respectable 109? >> Grettir, Sorry it took so long for this message to reach you. I've recently changed jobs and my mail addresses have been getting bounced around. What you propose sounds fine as from what I've read in the LRO magazine, $4000 US will by you a very good IIA 109. LRO had an article awhile back on converting from RHD to LHD. As I recall the estimated cost was L500. I'm not sure if this was with new or used parts. It may be worth your while to do this over there. You'll want something with a registration of 1967 or earlier. Otherwise you'll have big problems getting it in. If you do this get as much of the work/parts done before you ship the vehicle. You might even consider having a new galvanized frame and new suspension installed before shipping it. It is much less than here and you could save a bundle, even with the installation. Hopefully other folks on the net will have provided even more info for you. Good Luck! Bill Maloney From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 07:05:46 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 18 May 94 23:35:18 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Roy in the Rockies Content-Type: Text Status: RO Roy, Please resend me your address. I was moved the week before last to another desk and have just been reconnected to E-Mail. I still can't access my saved messages to retrieve your mailing address. I believe my new ID is: . Use this or whatever appears in your header. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com (I think) AT&T Rm. 2D235 101 JFK Parkway, Short Hills, NJ 07078 W-201-564-2073 H-201-835-1796 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 15:14:40 1994 Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 16:02:07 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO Spent the last several days trying to upgrade an older 386 Compaq to something with bit more memory and a lot bigger hard drive (all to accomodate the new scanner, laser printer and software)...nothing but hassle and frustration, with conflicting/erroneous info from the techies at Compaq. I called them so many times, I programmed the number into the speed dialer. (Now I know why some folks climb up into towers with high-powered rifles.) Advice for anyone considering purchase of a Compaq product, and this from a former-loyal customer of a dozen years: don't. In other happenings, one of the reps from LRNA brought a new Dicso down to our trials course at Penlan Farm over the weekend. Mike drove the Disco and the rep drove Mike's '66 88. Unfortunately, Mike got the Disco STUCK...wedged actually...between two trees. The Disco is much larger than an 88 and the chainsaw was put into action to free the Disco. As this is privately-owned land, we can "tread firmly". LRNA might actually kick a few bucks our way and sponsor part of the August event. A bluegrass band has been booked and things seem to be coming together nicely. For those right-coasters like me who don't have the time to drive to the National in Colorado, this is an attractive alternative. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 19:17:38 1994 Date: 19 May 1994 12:06:42 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: RangeRover for Sale To: lro@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO LROers, I'm not sure about the netiqette of advertising so I apologise in advance if anyone is upset. I've been on the list for about 9 months and have enjoyed all of the information, stories, and banter. Unfortunately, I'm buying a house and need to sell the Rangey for the deposit. 1971 2 door Bahama Gold (OK, Mustard) Right Hand Drive 180,000 miles LPG/Petrol fuel system Very little rust (None on tailgate/window frame) Heavy Duty springs (from 110) Rear Sway Bar Cloth seats and interior in great shape rear air shocks Runs great Asking NZ$11,250 (approx. US$6,000) (It costs approx. US$1800 to ship to North America) I don't know of any other New Zealand LROers on the list but it's worth a try. ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 04:55:56 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 19 May 1994 10:30:12 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, Faculty" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: LRO@stratus.com Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 10:29:47 GMT Subject: Re: Hello.... Priority: normal Status: RO -> I already own a diesel 88 SIII, so the mechanical part should be quite ->similar. According to my friendly mechanic, lots of the running gear & body-work is different to the standard LR (shorter stub axles, different diffs, etc..) -> Bye -> Ludovico -> -> -> __________________________ -> |--------------------------| 1984 -> /____________________________\ Series III -> || || || 88 -> || || || Land Rover -> || || || Station Wagon -> ||______ ______||______ ______|| -------- -> |______ / ______ \ ______| 1977 -> | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | Series III -> |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| Lightweight -> |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| (coming soon) -> | ||___|______|___|| | -> | | \__|______|__/ | | -> |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| -> |__________________________________| -> | | | | -> | | | | ->____|____|______________________|____|___________________ -> -> ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it ->_________________________________________________________ ->--- ->* UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader -> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 21:19:27 1994 Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 22:11:29 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: I'm back To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Sorry if I didn't respond to any mail or notes. I fell off the LRO list when my mailbox overflowed, or quit working properly three weeks ago. Anyway, I posted a note to the group about the Land Rover Experience @ Solhul, but found I was no longer on the list at that point so missed any comments or replys. Is this list archived anywhere? Thanks (and it's good to be back) Andrew/Dayton Ohio From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 18 21:13:50 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: Hello.... From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Thu, 19 May 94 03:35:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO At last.... It seems that I'm on this list at last...... A big thank you to all the people that gave me the list's address: Keith Steele, Dixon Kenner and Randy Rose. Yesterday I went to see a 1977 Lightweight. I love that car, and I want to buy it at all costs. I would like to hear anythinhg from Lightweight owners, cost of the vehicle (I expect to pay 3400$...), weak points, and so on... I already own a diesel 88 SIII, so the mechanical part should be quite similar. Bye Ludovico __________________________ |--------------------------| 1984 /____________________________\ Series III || || || 88 || || || Land Rover || || || Station Wagon ||______ ______||______ ______|| -------- |______ / ______ \ ______| 1977 | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | Series III |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| Lightweight |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| (coming soon) | ||___|______|___|| | | | \__|______|__/ | | |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| |__________________________________| | | | | | | | | ____|____|______________________|____|___________________ ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it _________________________________________________________ --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 09:09:57 1994 Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:53:51 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Rovers in Films Status: RO Whilst channel-surfing last evening, I happened to catch a clip of a film in progress, "The Specialist," starring Sly Stalone. The scene depicts the ambush of some South American drug lord, and in it, not one but *TWO* SII 109's get destroyed. One, an immaculate SW gets blown up for the close-ups. The other, reduced to a flaming hulk, gets dropped several hundred feet into a river. The previous night, I watched the whole of the Sly's previous film, the supremely stupid "Cliffhanger" just to see the S III SW there. The Rover's acting was far better than Sly's. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 09:09:31 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: I'm back To: ad158@dayton.wright.edu (Andrew Steele) Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 09:00:32 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9405190211.AA19991@dayton.wright.edu> from "Andrew Steele" at May 18, 94 10:11:29 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1855 Status: RO Andrew Steele was bold enough to point out... > >Is this list archived anywhere? > I have about the past 18 months available via anonymous ftp. All the ones I received are there to the best of my ability (I am not a cyber-robot). I only copy in the latest on a monthly boundary, but I will put May 94's partial in there today... *********************************************************************** ** anonymous ftp notes -- note this works, other methods should too. ** ** /u/ccray/notes/lrodigests ** *********************************************************************** NOTE: Digests 92.8 thru 93.10 were collected by Mark Grieshaber and shared with me. Digests 93.10 (late) thru current were collected by Ray Harder. Obtaining LRO digests procedure: -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine. -- issue the ftp command -- "ftp lulu.cc.missouri.edu". -- at the prompt, the user is anonymous and the password is anything, but the convention is the sender's user/node. -- have ftp cd to the LRO subdirectory -- "cd pub/lro" -- change to the proper directory on the receiving machine (if you didn't do it above -- "lcd Mail" (for example). -- issue the "mget *" ftp command to transfer the files. -- issue the "quit" ftp subcommand. -- Use your mailer to browse the files or print them for late night enjoyment. -- enjoy. *********************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 11:57:39 1994 Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 13:46:33 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Cc: x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca Subject: test Status: RO Has the list been very quiet recently or have I been removed from it a week or so ago? .....and just when I started to get some work done on my rover... -David Spencer From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 15:05:06 1994 Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 15:55:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: National Rally at Derby next weekend! Status: RO Hello All! Who will be going to the National, spring bank holiday, May 28-30 in England? It is always fun to "meat the flesh" from the net. I'll be happy to be a contact person. The BSROA might have a banner/table and seeing as how I seemed to be the only Asian person there last year...and unless busloads of "tuuristew Nihon des ka" come barreling through I should be easy to spot - a 6 foot Korean wearing a green BSROA jacket that says "Lucas." John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 22:52:54 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: CANADIAN LAND ROVER DISCOVERY LAUNCH From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 22:21:04 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO RE MR DUSHIN, apology accepted. end of issue pls. rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 19 22:53:00 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: canadian land rover discovery launch From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 22:22:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The whole launch of the Land Rover Discovery could be described as "been there, saw it did it". Now for the explicit version, as best my memory serves me. Andy Graham and I left Ottawa on Monday afternoon loaded to the roof with the toy collection and display equipment, full of expectation. On arriving in Mississauga we got out the A-Z map and located Skymark Ave, the address of the headquarters of Land Rover Canada Inc. Minutes later we were parked outside the office. A number of Discoverys, a Defender 90 and some Range Rovers were parked around the parking lot. the offices at about 6pm now looked pretty empty. There appaeared to be some kind of rough ground out back with some hills etc. The rear garage door was open and a couple of people were inside fabricating something out of long wooden pieces. We nosed our way on in as any true writer type can only do, a certain nonchalance and bravado accompanied by the sound of cameras clicking before we even talked. "So guys, are you making something for the launch on wednesday then?" "Yep, a tetter totter" "I'm Robin from Ottawa, this is Andy, weve come to display our toy collection at the launch" "Your the guys from the Ottawa owners group, I'm Johnathan Slavin" Well you could have knocked me down with a feather at this point. To meet the son of Ken and Julie Slavin was indeed an honour. little did I realise how much he and Tim Hensley, of US Camel trophy team fame would help and be a part of this launch. After some light banter and introduction to Jim Davis of LRNA we let the guys get on with their work for that Evening. Tommorrow we would be back. Andy and i then toured the locale in search of further excitment and found it. The next day tuesday the 17th we were up bright and early and back at LRC Inc by 9 00 am to set up our toy display. we met the full staff of only six, yes get that, very quickly. Shawne Alexander the secretary to the MD Alan Manessy was the first to greet us and had us accomodated very quickly, as we had come prepared for an "un-supported" display as it were the only thing we needed from them was one piece of scotch tape. we were all set up by 1130 and the display looked a million dollars on the "Land Rover" green felt we had brought. During this time Alan dropped by from his very busy office upstairs to say hello. He, like evry one else was speechless for a moment. After thanking us profusely, to which we only tried to explain how much of an honour it was to be able to do this he departed to another phone call. All the staff were very busy with last minute details being tidied up by the minute. from the beginning of the day it was so incredible the feeling of family these people put out as they worked towards a common goal. The launch of the Land Rover Discovery to the Canadian automotive paparartzy and onwards to the buying public. I want to pause here a second so you can take that last sentence in. Read it well, it says what we were to understand over the 48 plus hours we were at the launch. once finished with the display we sauntered around, priveleged to be here the day before the launch. As a Land Rover buff I wanted to take this opportunity to document as much as possible of what was going on. To that end we watched as Tim and Jonathan set up and built the tetter totter and then built the off road course out back. Somebody with a lot of Driving experience got the front end loader stuck and had to be recovered with the 90. Who you ask, not here, wait for the Land Rover Owner article! We were allowed a free range of the building and the course to do as we wished, it was more than we could have ever ahd dreamed off. The launch itself on the wednesday was done to the same high standard that we had seen the staff exhibiting the whole time we were there. These people really worked exceptionally hard to make it all come off without a hitch. The whole team, every last one down to Mel who had been with the company for only two weeks put their all into this. Alan Manessy has a very dedicated team behind him that are jointly going places with the Land Rover product at a rate that is increasing all the time. The assebled press for the event read like a who's who of Canadian Automotive writers and broadcaster's Jim Kenzie, Ted Laturnus, Cam McCrae (sp), Bob English, Dan Proudfoot, Brad Diamond, the list goes on and on. What was so refreshing was that these people were very intested to talk to everyone and I had some incredible converstaions with some people of such great stature in the industry today. The press was given a chance to drive all the vehciles on the off road course that afternoona after a lunch of rainbow trout, venison and rabbit. Incredible. we had driven them the day before but that is another story as i only have 90 minutes on the system for now, I dont think i'll be back for a few days as I have two very tight deadlines to write too, one is LRO. We were as i said incredibly priveleged to get the access to this event that we did, a couple of local club personalities did also attend but I do not honestly beleive any one has the pictures and the memories that Andy and I have now. I'm not rying to be snobbish, just plain speaking. Everyone was given a chance to drive all the vehciles and to go on the tetter totter too. That was so hard. Trevor easton of the TO Land Rover Club made it look so easy, except for the demo by Tim and Jonathan. well I'm nearly out of time here. I just want to say the most sincere thanks to Alan Manessy and his staff for making all of this possible, they were great and we were made to feel a real part of the launch. For me the day was capped of with an informal interview with Alan in his office with the course set up out of one of the windows. It was a no notes frank chat that i will remember for a lifetime. Thank you Alan, Shawne, Sherri, Lana, Mel and Don of LRC, Jonathan and Tim, Glen from LRNA Calif, and not forgeting Linda, parachuted in as a temp for the event onto the staff of LRC. with thanks Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. 19 May 1994 -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 07:05:06 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 20 May 1994 12:23:08 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 12:19:09 GMT Subject: my diesel is very smokey... :-( Priority: normal Status: RO Hi all One of the reasons I've been lurking quietly is the I've been doing a heart transplant for Obediah. The old 2.25 diesel was clatterry and major investigation located the source of the trouble to be the cap for the pre-heat chamber of number 2 cylinder: A previous owner had had a problem with the cap being lose within the head & rather than fix the problem, they used a centre-punch to pinch the main head casting around the cap. This fix held long enough for me to buy the car :-( Unfortunately, in comming lose the first time, the cap did sevear damage to the crown of the piston and the top of the main block. Casting around, I located a running 2.25 diesel from a scrapped 1980 109. I got my mechanic friend to have a look at it and all seemed OK (no smoke, free running & it started quickly too). 250 quid poorer, I got the engine back to the workshop & started to prepare it for dropping into Obi. -- clean the outside, replace the alternator for my existing (better) one, ditto the starter, generally tidy it up. Once it was all ready, the engine was dropped into the engine bay & mated to the bell-housing. Plumb it all together, tidy it all up and test it.... It SMOKED!!!!! Off with the rocker cover & check the clearences -- well out. One set of adjustments later, retest it -- Still SMOKING!!!! Off with the head & take the valves out -- crap all over them. Clean the valves up & spend an hour or two with some valve grinding paste, fit new seals and replace the valves. Clean the top of the cylinder block & the bottom of the head, rebuild the engine (new gaskit), adjust the valve cleaences, re-plumb it & re-test -- Still @$#&ing SMOKING!!!!! OK, play with the timing of the distribution pump -- no change. Borrow a set of injectors from a 110 -- no change. Check back with the guy who helped me during the swap-over & rebuilds: He had cleaned the top of the pistons (apparently this is a no-no?). I am now totally lost -- does anyone have any suggestions for me to try next? could the cleaned pistons be my problem & can I fix it? help? -- frustratedly, Ian. ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. #======================================================================# Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 09:07:29 1994 Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 08:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: my diesel is very smokey... :-( To: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO SMOKEY DIESEL?????? NO WAY......... When I took the 109 out in the woods the local forest service airdropped tons of fire retardant on me!! ;-) I never did get the blasted thing to run correctly......I did,however, learn alot about the Rover"Deseazel"........OK smoke you say? It would help us all to know what color..oops colour smoke it is. I will risk insulting the members that KNOW this stuff, but here it goes... white smoke- water...or late fuel pump timing..Water kinda' BILLOWS as opposed to late timing which "hazes"..water could be head,head gasket,cracked block(if someone did not clean out the head bolt holes in the block,the crud and coolant in the hole will hydralic(sp) the block,cracking it into the water jacket....clean up block at bolt holes and look carefully if you suspect......Late timing can be caused by air leaks in the system(like were YOU hooked up the fuel lines..Hmmmmm?)if the air gets into the pump, the plungers have to compress the air before they can supply enough pressure to the fuel to open the injector..this compression takes time and the fuel is injected"late". Anything in the supply to the pump that is restricted or leaking air will give you*BIG* problems...a weak lift pump (NEVER use a petrol pump..not enough pressure)can cause the timing to run late..If the smoke only occurs at higher speeds,a transfer pump problem is indicated..after all the OTHER things I mentioned are correct..the transfer pump is located in the top of the injection pump..(were you installed the banjo fitting w/o the copper rings perhaps?) this is a rotary pump and acts a thrust bearing for the whole shebang..the end plate is aluminum and wears lustfully..CAV knows this now and the replacement part has a sandwich of steel there..the pressure regulator is up in the very top of this end plate and it is possible loose the spring,strainer seal and plunger from here if the banjo fitting is removed.(OH so THATS where those little things came from!!) know it is a pain in the ... to take the pump out,but if you do, you can have a CAV agent test it and set it to spec. cost her was about 175 dollars with a new transfer pump and other goodies..WHEW!!!! Black smoke-over fueling...or very early pump timing...this can be caused by a restricted intake or exhaust system....(over fuel,not timing...)can be caused by bad injectors(you changed) or miss-adjusted pump(you changed) The pump timing is related to cam timing,and if the chain or other parts are worn it may be impossible to get the timing correct(It wasn't ever turned backwards,was it?) Blue smoke- Oil burning...this is the easy one you KNOW what that means... It is possible that there is some crazy breather problem...late valve cover on an early engine,for example, so LOOK an THINK before starting down "Rebuild Lane".... Low commpression will cause all kinds of smoke combinations depending on load and speed,but this would be noticed mostly as hard starting,and low power.(what? In a Land Rover Diesel? Low power? Ha! I should think NOT!..) Unless the garageman used a*BIG* hammer and chisel to remove the carbon,this should not effect the smoke...yes,I read the book that says to leave a ring of carbon around the outside edge of the piston to act as a heat shield for the upper ring....really, don't you think that Rover whould have BUILT the thing with a carbon ring there if it NEEDED one? If the fellow used heat to burn off the carbon..(yes.. these people are out there...) it is possible,no,Likley that he got the piston hot enough to stick the top ring in its groove and/or take the temper out of it...And while we're on the subject...WHY did this engine NEED the carbon removed???????If it was running properly, the piston should have only had a light coating of carbon...all the rest gets flung out the exhaust to blacken the windscreen of that @#%#%&$&^#^& Vauxhall that's been tailgating for the last 20 miles..... OH well I hope this helps some what ..If you can clarify the conditions,I could give you a better idea on where to look.. steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 08:55:54 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: my diesel is very smokey... :-( To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Ian Stuart ) Date: Fri, 20 May 94 14:43:02 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Ian Stuart," at May 20, 94 12:19 pm Status: RO Ian, Dont see why clean pistons should make any difference.Reasons? Well,if you put new pistons in they are clean,arent they?I think this one comes from the idea of leaving a quarter inch of carbon round the edge of the pistons when decoking. What colour is the smoke?Is it black,or blue(called white).Is it using oil.Bear in mind they *all* smoke to some extent.Mine is getting embarrasing.Are you *sure* that injectors from a 110 are correct for the 2.25. Your best bet is either to get your injectors overhauled by a specialist(you cant do it yourself),or get a set of new,or reconditioned ones from one of the advertisers in LRO if you take it. Likewise the distributor pump should be set up according to the manual, and if you,like me,are unfortunate enough to have the later pump,you will need the special tool to do it with,and I've yet to find anyone who has one,and I'm damned if I'm going to pay a no doubt exhorbitant price and *buy* one.So it may be cheaper to get the diesel specialist to do it for you.I am. All this assumes that your rings are in good order,and compression good. Renewing the the fuel filter may help a bit,too. Mine smokes badly("white"smoke) on tickover,and on the overrun,indicating that the injectors have their springs set "light"and/or the dist pump is injecting either early or late,whichever.It is going into the local diesel specialist ASAP to get seen to.And yes,otherwise I do all the work on it myself. Any help? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 11:27:43 1994 Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 12:20:16 +0500 From: bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov (Michael Bur) To: car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Unsubscribe. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 38 Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from the list. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 12:21:22 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 20 May 1994 16:42:09 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, Faculty" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 16:35:37 GMT Subject: Re: What sort of smoke is it? Priority: normal Status: RO Thanks for all the replies so far. I know, I should have said what sort of smoke it was. (let's just say I'm suffering for fume inhilations :- ) -- it is _White_ -- billowing clouds of white smoke. "Environmentally unfriendly" as my mechanic calls it :-) Another point, the person who cleaned the tops of the pistons was a friend of mine, not the mechanic. The guy is a programmer who was asked to clean the top of the engine block -- he wouldn't have know about the piston tops. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 12:29:41 1994 Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 13:08:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: power assist brakes To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Before you go ripping off with a crazy "rebuild it ALL" gleam in your eyes,check that the check valve is not leaking...It is the right angle fitting that goes in to the booster itself...you should be able to blow through it one way and not the other...Yes the unit is rebuildable..no I've not had any luck doing it...the spring is not as heavy as the book would lead one to believe,but"unscrewing"the two halfs is quite a trip...it has to be pressed togather and turned at the same time WHEW!!!! the price of a new unit is more than I paid for my 109!!!!!! You could always put a *BIG* spring on the clutch and use it and the brake pedal like a mobile "Stairmaster"!!!!! :-)You now are getting the "Pull the steering wheel up to your chin" feeling one gets with a non-assist 109 sw!! Good luck and happy halting! steve.... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 12:38:23 1994 X-Sendmail-Version: 8.6.9 X-Authentication-Info: costales@localhost From: costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Bryan Costales) Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 10:30:13 -0700 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: brake light switch Status: RO Please donn't take this as a critisism of Atlantic British, but I thought I best announce this to the mailing list both to see of others have had this problem and to help others avoid this problem. The brake light switch for a Series III sold by Atlantic British is third party (not Land Rover), but they claim "it adheres to the Land Rover specs." Unfortunately, it is a poorly designed imitation that fails almost immediately. (Failure is absence of a brake light when applying the brakes.) It can be adjusted to work again once, maybe twice, then not at all. Put an ohm-meter on it and work it by hand. It will show inifinite to 0 resistance changes as it should only a few times before showing bad middle resistances. I finally order the same part from Rovers North and got a genuine Land Rover replacement part. This replacement switch works perfectly, as one would expect. My recommendation is that you specify Land Rover replacement parts when ordering. If a place stocks "domestic" or "third party" replacements, shop elsewhere. -- Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 12:04:00 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 20 May 94 11:45:21 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: power assist brakes Status: RO do any of you on the net have problems with holding vacumm on the power assist brakes and if you don't can it be rebuilt? i also need to know the procedures associated with rebuilding the unit. do you know if rovers north carry the kits or new power assist units? thx From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 12:36:48 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: power assist brakes To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: Fri, 20 May 1994 18:19:30 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> from "/G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com" at May 20, 94 11:45:21 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 342 Status: RO > do any of you on the net have problems with holding vacumm on the power >assist > brakes and if you don't can it be rebuilt? i also need to know the procedures > associated with rebuilding the unit. do you know if rovers north carry the kits > or new power assist units? thx > Mechanical servo or remote hydraulic servo? Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 20 17:45:28 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: brake light switch In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 20 May 94 10:30:13 PDT." <9405201030.ZM9021@ICSI.Berkeley.edu> Date: Fri, 20 May 94 15:37:36 PDT Status: RO In message <9405201030.ZM9021@ICSI.Berkeley.edu> you write: > Please donn't take this as a critisism of Atlantic British, but I thought I > best announce this to the mailing list both to see of others have had this > problem and to help others avoid this problem. > > The brake light switch for a Series III sold by Atlantic British is third > party (not Land Rover), but they claim "it adheres to the Land Rover specs." > Unfortunately, it is a poorly designed imitation that fails almost immediatel > (Failure is absence of a brake light when applying the brakes.) I had this exact problem two or so years ago. The Brake Light switch failed completely in a few months. I bought a genuine part from British Pacific and haven't had a problem since. In all fairness to Atlantic British, it could be a faulty batch of parts. Then again, I did get a unhardened batch of cam shaft rollers from them as well. Ever seen cam shaft rollers that develop valleys and ridges lengthwise. They only took 6 months to develop.... Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 21 02:25:41 1994 Date: Sat, 21 May 94 00:15:52 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: vroooooooooomm vrrroooooommmm It's alive Status: RO Howdy all, At 23:41 hours Pacific time my landrover has yet again breathed life (albiet it is still on jack stands). Free beer to all...... Vance Chin P.S. It WILL roll tomorrow..... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 21 20:32:28 1994 Date: 21 May 94 21:21:05 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: New member Status: RO I am new to the list. BIO I own a 72 Series III 88 since new. I am currently living in Northern Kentucky a few miles south of Cincinnati Ohio. I have just towed my Rover to Holland Michigan (400) miles to get some work done by a Rover knowledge shop (Alan Christian Motors). A couple of questions for you Roverphiles. Anyone know of a Rover knowledgeable shop closer to Cincinnati Oh? I have been getting my parts from Atlantic British in NY and British Pacific CA. Anyone know of any other good Rover parts suppliers? I have done extensive offroad driving in California when I lived there. Due to other commitments until recently I have not had the time or opportunity to do much offroad driving in Kentucky. Anyone know of good areas for offroading within 100 miles of Cincinnati for day trips or within 3-400 miles for longer trips? Anyone know of any Land Rover clubs or organizations around Cincinnati. Ok, if there are no organizations close to Cincinnati any within 3-400 miles from here? One last question. The mechanic at Alan Christian Motors commented that the V8 engine currently used in the Range Rover and Defender could be installed in my series III with no modifications other than changing the gearing in the front and rear diffs. He stated that the engine mounts and transmittion connections were exactly the same. Is anyone willing to confirm or deny this. Believe me I am glad to find this list. I was beginning to think I was one of the last few surviving LROs in the US :-) Keith Steele From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 21 21:01:12 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Land Rover in the periodicals To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 21 May 1994 19:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1039 Status: RO Here are some late cites, including the latest obligatory articles on the Disco/Ruta Maya: Destler, Dave. "Monkeys, mud & Mayan gods : Land Rover discovers the American jungle". BRITISH CAR no. 49 (June 1994) p. 28-34 Allen, Jim. "Unconquered slopes : the Mount Washington expedition". OFF-ROAD Vol. 28, no. 6 (June 1994) p. 78-82 Brown, Greg N. "Defender 90 : quien es mas macho?" OFF-ROAD Vol. 28, no. 6 (June 1994) p. 83-85 Stewart, John. "The expedition of Discovery : Land Rovers travel the Maya route" FOUR WHEELER Vol. 31, no. 6 (June 1994) p. 20-26 Morrison, Bob. "Land Rover light utility vehicles" [MRCV and SOV] MILITARY IN SCALE No. 17 (April 1994) p. 33-35 [also featured on the cover of no. 15 (Feb. 1994)] Innes, John. "Lightweight Land Rover" [Dartmoor Military Models] MILITARY IN SCALE No. 17 (April 1994) p. 56-58 Happy reading! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 22 17:29:27 1994 Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 18:21:05 +0500 From: bur@gyrfalcon.gsfc.nasa.gov (Michael Bur) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Unsubscribe. X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 84 Status: RO Please unsubscribe me from the lro mailing list. I will be an travel for a month. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 22 11:26:28 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Sun, 22 May 94 12:15:37 EST Encoding: 578 Text To: lro@stratus.com, tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Land Rover in the periodicals Content-Length: 562 Status: RO Regarding LR in periodicals, etc. The latest edition of MotorWeek, usually broadcast on PBS but now available on NBC, had a "special" piece on the South American LR expidition. Don't bother watching, it stunk! A couple of shots of Discos motoring down dirt roads, two action shots -- Disco splashing through deep muddy puddle and navigating a trench, along with a lengthy shot of a "regular" Disco...but mostly babble about ecotourism and Mayan remains. Nice stuff for National Geographic, but I was hoping for some mention of the vehicles. :-( Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 22 15:47:41 1994 Date: Sun, 22 May 1994 16:36:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: new mail address To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO can you please direct my lro and other mail to Compuserve 74353,2423 Thank you From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 00:36:48 1994 Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:21:42 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Survivor TV series on PBS Status: RO Just watching the tele and found the tv series Survivors on channel 54 here in the San Francisco area. It's from England and shows life after the world is hit by a plague from a release of a bio-weapon. I have seen two series III's and lots of english contryside. Check it out in the bay area at 10 pm sunday nights. Vance Chin Running Series III :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 01:51:39 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Survivor TV series on PBS To: vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu (Vance Chin) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 00:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405230521.AA07480@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Vance Chin" at May 22, 94 10:21:42 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 937 Status: RO Vance Chin writes: < Just watching the tele and found the tv series Survivors on < channel 54 here in the San Francisco area. It's from England and < shows life after the world is hit by a plague from a release of < a bio-weapon. I have seen two series III's and lots of english < contryside. Check it out in the bay area at 10 pm sunday nights. It was produced in 1975-77 and is now syndicated on many PBS stations. World population is more than decimated, and consequently virtually all services cease. (A total communications breakdown means that the English don't even know what's happening in the next county let alone other countries.) Eventually petroleum stocks are exhausted and the Land Rovers no longer run -- sad. (oops -- I hope I didn't spoil too much of the plot) T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 06:04:22 1994 Subject: Re: Survivor TV series on PBS To: vance@xnet.ssl.berkeley.edu (Vance Chin) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:24:37 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9405230521.AA07480@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Vance Chin" at May 22, 94 10:21:42 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1109 Status: RO Vance Chin writes: > > Just watching the tele and found the tv series Survivors on > channel 54 here in the San Francisco area. It's from England and > shows life after the world is hit by a plague from a release of > a bio-weapon. I have seen two series III's and lots of english > contryside. Check it out in the bay area at 10 pm sunday nights. If my memory serves, there are quite a lot of Land Rover appearances through series 1 and most of the episodes in series 2 feature the same green 88". There is also an episode that features the same white Range Rover Edward Woodward used as Callan to demolish a Greenhouse during a rather inpressive car chase, all be it somewhat more battered and without the black glass. > Vance Chin Running Series III :-) -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 08:38:46 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 94 9:25:16 EDT From: Fred Dushin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Survivor TV series on PBS Status: RO > Just watching the tele and found the tv series Survivors on > channel 54 here in the San Francisco area. It's from England and > shows life after the world is hit by a plague from a release of > a bio-weapon. I have seen two series III's and lots of english > contryside. Check it out in the bay area at 10 pm sunday nights. Why is it that we land rover lovers spot the series x rovers in the most morbid conditions? The sig other is sick of my yelling "Rover!" during news footage of slaughter and starvation on the african continent (and in Bosnia, as well). Fred Dushin Syracuse, NY From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 07:19:06 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 23 May 94 23:49:14 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Brake Light Switch Content-Type: Text Status: RO Someone wrote, >> The brake light switch for a Series III sold by Atlantic British is third party (not Land Rover), but they claim "it adheres to the Land Rover specs." Unfortunately, it is a poorly designed imitation that fails almost immediately.(Failure is absence of a brake light when applying the brakes.) It can be adjusted to work again once, maybe twice, then not at all. Put an ohm-meter on it and work it by hand. It will show inifinite to 0 resistance changes as it should only a few times before showing bad middle resistances. I finally order the same part from Rovers North and got a genuine Land Rover replacement part. This replacement switch works perfectly, as one would expect. >> I had the same problem with a brake switch from ABP. I wound up buying one from RN. Don't be afraid to call them to return the part. They are pretty fair and will credit your account or apply it to a future purchase. It didn't cost me any $ but it was a lot of aggravation until I figured it was the switch and not me. While it took more time than I care to admit to realize this, the RN part worked from the first time I adjusted it. Happy Braking. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 07:21:17 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 23 May 94 23:51:16 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: High Lift Jack Content-Type: Text Status: RO I installed galvanized lens protector baskets on my 88 this weekend. I used stainless 1/4" bolts through the body with a washer and nut on the outside, then fit the basket, another washer, and a fiber lock nut on top of that. This should make them easy to remove for washing and passing NJ state inspection without reaching behind the bodywork. I expect my tail lenses won't crack so easily now and I have to admit they look pretty neat. I also put new battery cables and a plastic battery tray on the same vehicle. Now I don't have to worry about bad battery connnections for awhile. Now my question to the net: I'm looking for a lockable mounting kit for a high lift jack. I would like to mount it horizontally on the back of the seatbase bulkhead on my IIA 88. I believe that this would keep it out of the way without taking up much space. I see ads in the US off road magazines for them occasionally, but was wondering if anyone had any experience/reccomendations for a secure mounting package. As I don't have access to any welding/machine shop stuff, it'll need to be as bolt-on as possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Oops! Almost forgot - Does the bracket/channel the spare tire mounts on behind the seat base have any structural value, or can it be removed when I install the jack? Thanks, Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 09:27:46 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:14:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: miniture land rovers To: LRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO i remember someone(s) mentioning an interest in toy land rovers but i can't remember who. If it might be you, read on. I cleaned out my desk this weekend and found two rather odd little land rovers. One is made in the USA by Tootsietoy and only vaguely looks like a rover, rather like a rover that had been stepped on. But it is labeled Land Rover so that must be exactly what it is. The other is a Norwegian knock-off of a Corgi Land Rover. Looks just like my old red corgi except this one is made out of rubbery plastic and has a rubbery plastic man riding in the truck bed. (oh, the norwegian one is a 109, the us one is probably an 88 with a non-safari hard top.) anyway, i've no need for these little gems and would be happy to send them off to anyone out there who can't live without them. free. unless of course there is more than one person out there who wants them in which case you guys can fight it out and let me know where to send the victor their prize. meanwhile i'm just going to drive them all over my deask leaving cool tracks in the inch deep dust... jan hilborn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 09:34:31 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Survivor TV series on PBS To: fadushin@top.cis.syr.edu (Fred Dushin) Date: Mon, 23 May 94 15:22:08 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405231326.JAA25445@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Fred Dushin" at May 23, 94 9:25 am Status: RO > > > > Just watching the tele and found the tv series Survivors on > > channel 54 here in the San Francisco area. It's from England and > > shows life after the world is hit by a plague from a release of > > a bio-weapon. I have seen two series III's and lots of english > > contryside. Check it out in the bay area at 10 pm sunday nights. > > Why is it that we land rover lovers spot the series x rovers in the > most morbid conditions? The sig other is sick of my yelling > "Rover!" during news footage of slaughter and starvation on > the african continent (and in Bosnia, as well). > > Fred Dushin > Syracuse, NY > > P'raps the question should be,why do the TV companies think the only news is *bad* news.I'm sure there are at least as many Rovers in far happier circumstances,but they never get filmed.By contrast, there is a TV programme twice weekly over here called "Countryfile". It deals with farming and environmental issues.I have yet to see a farmer with a japjeep on this.All Land Rovers.AND the presenter drives a Disco.Now *there's* a company car for you! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:42 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: New member From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:26:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> writes: > I have been getting my parts from Atlantic British in NY and > British Pacific CA. Anyone know of any other good Rover parts > suppliers? Have you a copy of the Land Rover FAQ? If not: ========================================================================== 9. LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA) ---------- Atlantic British Ltd Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive Mechanicville, NY 12118 (800) 533-2210 Orders only (518) 664-6169 Technical questions (518) 664-6641 Fax Free catalog Lots of aftermarket parts Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized ---------- CARS Camarillo, CA (800) 882-1349 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. 1043 Kaiser Rd. SW Olympia, WA 98502 parts - (206) 866-2254 sales - (206) 866-2381 Bruce Harding writes: "When dealing with these folks you need to verify costs and availabilities over the phone or you may be surprised. Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special' made." He goes on to say: "After all this happened I sent out a message to the group asking where people purchased their parts and NOBODY replied they used this outfit. I then looked back over my invoice numbers to discover they issue an average of 9 invoices a week over an 8 month period... and several of these were return/backorder invoices of mine. I can't believe they sell many LR's as their prices are extremely high, although their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business." Lee Fischer says: "I would go to great lengths to get parts/service from any other Rover company that I've dealt with instead of these folks." ---------- D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc. 7 Kendrick Road Wareham, MA 02571 (508) 291-1311 Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories - warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling Jory reports some major problems with this outfit: "absolutely every major component I sourced from DAP failed in some manner... usually incurring greater costs than the original problem..." In particular he had bad experience with road springs and rocker area hardware. ---------- Jim "Scotty" Howett (510) 686-2255 Teriann Wakeman says: "He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do a mail order." ---------- Nisonger Victory Gardens, NJ (800) 431-2496 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog Restoration program: - Customer must sign up (no cost) - Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash out", you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases based on the amount you have purchased up to that point. ---------- Rover's West Eight Parts 4060 Michigan Tucson, AZ 85714 (602) 748-8115 ---------- Roverworks - New York 800-999-6402 Land Rovers available: 1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt Base Model 88 $17,000 109 Regular $19,500 109 Safari $24,000 Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the UK. Prices start at $5,000) (prices from 1.3.93) 1967 88 hardtop (VG) $ 8,000 1961 109 Safari $19,000 1967 109 Safari $12,000 Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts. ---------- Doug Shipman 503-252-5566 Bruce Harding says that this guy has a lot of used Land Rover parts. He reports that many local people have used his services with good results. LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITAIN)****** ---------- A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd The Showground The Cliff Matlock Derbyshire DE4 5EW Tel 0629 584499 Fax 0629 584498 ---------- Demon Tweeks Hugmore Lane LLan-y-pwll Wrexham Clwyd United Kingdom LL13 9YE International phone number 44 978 664466 Fax: 44 978 664467 Ross says: "Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, diaphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc... they do not include new jets however." These kits are available form the above company. They may have Solex rebuild kits. ---------- Famous Four Tattershall Way Fairfield Industrial Estate Louth Lincolnshire LN11 0YA Tel 0507 609444 Fax 0507 609555 ---------- John Craddock Ltd. 70-76 North Street Bridgtown Cannock Staffordshire WS11 3AZ Tel 0543 577207 or 505408 Fax 0543 504818 ---------- Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd. Bridge Industrial Estate Speke Hall Road Speke (Nr. Airport) Liverpool L24 9HE tel 051 486 8636 fax 051 486 5986 Dixon reported a problem with an order in that they sent him the wrong part (silencer) - but he says that they cleared that up promptly and sent him a new one (by air their cost) and let him keep the other part. "I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their willingness to correct a problem. They have my business... " ---------- P.A.Blanchard & Co. Clay Lane Shiptonthorpe York YO4 3RU Tel 0430 872765 Fax 0430 872777 Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit civilian versions -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:46 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 11:53:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: LRO Subject: Re: miniture land rovers In-Reply-To: Status: RO Jan Hilborn sez; > anyway, i've no need for these little gems and would be happy to send >them off to anyone out there who can't live without them. free. unless of >course there is more than one person out there who wants them in which >case you guys can fight it out and let me know where to send the victor >their prize. > meanwhile i'm just going to drive them all over my deask leaving cool >tracks in the inch deep dust... ------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ These little gems are more needed here in Pittsburgh, than any where else on the planet.-----------------Here on the desk from HELL. No one without a landrover could ever traverse the junk and useless items that seem to gravitate to this desk. Among the junk is a picture post card of: H.R.H. Prince William of Wales, dated 4 July 1989. He looks to be about 7 or 8 years old. He's in some park, I guess, with his dog on a leash. Seems like he's looking up at his old man, and saying "Dad I gotta pee" Now you gotta admit that the toy LR's would add some spice, if they were set next to this picture perfect post card. Well Jan, as you can tell I have the proper place for a gummy rubber Land Rover. ANxiously waiting Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:23 1994 To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: High Lift Jack In-Reply-To: Your message of "23 May 1994 23:51:16 GMT." <199405231206.IAA20180@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 09:55:51 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Bill, There is indeed a cute little bolt on, lockable bracket system for your high lift jack. Ibought mine at the local 4-wheel drive supply palce for $9.99 and it works swell, ie. no rattles. the spare tire mount bracket on the bulkhead serves no structural purpose, heck the new Defender 90 doesn't even have a bulkhead, legroom what a concept. I however, mounted my jack horizontally on the wheel well vertical surface, left side. I had to unbolt and rotate the top toe of the jack 90 degrees and it then fit perfectly. It's easier to get at than on the bulkhead, doesn't interfere with passengers sitting in the jumpseats etc. The left side works better than the right because the rear door hinge/limit rod is in the way on the right side. Hope this helps. Rgds, Mike Fredette 72 Ser lll 88 mfredett@ichips.intel.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:26 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniture land rovers To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 11:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at May 23, 94 11:53:23 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1473 Status: RO Jan and Jon write: < > anyway, i've no need for these little gems and would be happy to send < >them off to anyone out there who can't live without them. free. unless of < >course there is more than one person out there who wants them in which < >case you guys can fight it out and let me know where to send the victor < >their prize. < --------------------------------- < Well Jan, as you can tell I have the proper place for a gummy rubber < Land Rover. < ANxiously waiting < Jon Sure, Jan, send the gummy one to Jon for Prince Willy, but my desk has a desperate need for the Norwegian one. My clean desk (which I've mislaid in some Rocky Mountain snowdrift) holds a beautiful framed pic of King Olav, and I'm sure you all know he was Colonel-in-Chief of The Green Howards, as is the current king, who hasn't been able to pay a visit for lack of a good Rover. No respectable Norwegian king would visit the British Army in a Toyota. Meanwhile, my dirty desk features a Dinky AA series one ploughing through the dust balls created by Salah-uddin al-Kordestani, whose framed portrait sits there to prove he's responsible. Clearly the other desk needs a Rover for balance. (Charge the postage to the place in Oslo.) Awaiting with baited breath, I remain your ROVERS (Respectful or Very Extremely Reverent Servant) T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:20 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 14:25:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniture land rovers Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405231716.AA28218@diana.cair.du.edu> Status: RO T.F. Mills' responce: >< --------------------------------- >< Well Jan, as you can tell I have the proper place for a gummy rubber >< Land Rover. >< ANxiously waiting >< Jon > >Sure, Jan, send the gummy one to Jon for Prince Willy, but my desk has >a desperate need for the Norwegian one. My clean desk (which I've >mislaid in some Rocky Mountain snowdrift) holds a beautiful framed pic >of King Olav, and I'm sure you all know he was Colonel-in-Chief of The -------------------------------- Mr. Mills, With all due respect (you should have read the fine print) THE NORWEGIAN ONE IS THE GUMMY RUBBER ONE!!!!!!! AND I WANT IT!!!!!!! So there,----------- Besides, how could you deprive a small child with a bladder infection, and a royal dog with a pedigree, of the joy of displaying themselves beside their forever wanted Gummy Rubber Norwegian Land Rover with it's own gummy rubber man in the back. And to think,--- all you want to do is put it beside some smelly Norse King Olav, most likely an impostor emperor. He probably is wearing some seal blubber pullover, and a fake pair of rabbit skin knickers. stinky stinky. Hardly a fitting enviroment for a dignified Gummy Rubber Land Rover, with a gummy rubber man in the back. Now I've said it and I feel better. But that's ok, cause I know that people understand. I'm smart enough, and I'm happy enough, and I'm good looking enough, and doggone it, people really like me. And I'm still anxiously waiting.... Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:18 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniture land rovers To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 13:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at May 23, 94 02:25:26 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1933 Status: RO Jon's reply: < Mr. Mills, With all due respect < (you should have read the fine print) < < THE NORWEGIAN ONE IS THE GUMMY RUBBER ONE!!!!!!! AND I WANT IT!!!!!!! Aw, heck (you know, the place where Rovers who don't believe in gosh go), I goofed. To make up for it, I'll take both Rovers. Jan did say fight, right? If you don't want to fight, I'll concede the gummy rubber man for your stinky child if you'll surrender both Rovers for my stinking Norwegian king. Naw, I'll be nice: you can have the gummy man AND the squashed Tootsie Rover for your tootsie. Somebody has to pay for my mistakes, and I'll be darned (you know, it's what happens to bad Rovers that get unstitched) if it has to be me. And besides, not only do people love me and understand me, but I'm humbler (not to be confused with hummer or humber) than you -- and therefore more deserving. I mean, it's not everybody who associates with stinking kings. Humberly yours, .________________._____ /~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~//~~~~~| / // // | /_\.___ //__ \.___//_______| O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] |[_______] __\__ ===========___/_ --------}========================== |** |/|(@ ## (@| **| | []| GO NORWAY! |) | |/| ###### | | _____ | | ___ | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______|________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \_______________// \\ / |%{ @ } |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ 1966 Land Rover King Olav Series 109" T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:15:38 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 16:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniture land rovers Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405231905.AA06535@diana.cair.du.edu> Status: RO To any other readers: See previous posts if you haven't already. To: T.F.Mills I saw it first and if I don't get it I'm going to hold my breath until I'm blue and my mom told me I could have it and if I don't get it I'll never play here again. I WANT THE: GUMMY RUBBER LAND ROVER AND THE GUMMY RUBBER MAN THAT SITS IN THE BACK OF THE GUMMY RUBBER LAND ROVER. AND I'LL LET YOU LOOK AT IT SOMETIME. So There Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:55:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: New member From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:32:47 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> writes: > Anyone know of any Land Rover clubs or organizations around > Cincinnati. Ok, if there are no organizations close to > Cincinnati any within 3-400 miles from here? There are a good number of Land Rover clubs about, though I don't know the size or how active of most of them are. Further away from you there are some larger clubs (ROAV, OVLR) that are pretty active and put out an adequate newsletter that is generally interesting to read. Sandy could give you a far better indication to the American scene than I could here in Canada. Rgds,, Dixon =========================================================================== 8. LAND ROVER CLUBS The following list includes clubs that do not cater exclusively to Land Rovers. A number of Rover car clubs exist that fill the roll of a single vehicle club, such as Land Rovers. This list is to be considered as accurate for the Winter of 1993. The Canadian clubs are drawn from the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers mailing list, the American clubs from Sandy Grise and the Rover Owners of Virginia mailing list, the U.K. clubs was supplied by Ian Stuart INTERNET While strictly not a club, there exists a mailing-list on the InterNet for Land Rover enthausists to exchange information, answer questions, and help fellow owners, or those who desire to obtain a Land Rover. Address: Send your request to be added to the mailing-list to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com CANADA Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR) c/o Mike McDermott 1016 Normandy Crescent Ottawa, Ontario, K2C 0L4 CANADA (Canada's oldest and largest Land Rover club) Newfoundland Rover Register c/o Kevin Burton #2 Holden Street Mt. Pearl, Newfoundland Maritime Organisation of Rover Enthusiasts c/o John Cranfield Kingston, Nova Scotia, B0P 1R0 Toronto Rover Club c/o Trevor Easton 124 Central Avenue Grimsley, Ontario L3M 4Z2 CANADA Land Rover Owner's Association of Manitoba Newsletter: Prairie Rovers c/o Scott Sheppard Box 331 Powerview, Manitoba R0E 1P0 CANADA Land Rover Register of Alberta Newsletter: Rover Register c/o Al Sigurdson Box 793 Duncan, British Columbia V9L 3Y5 CANADA Island Rovers c/o Ron Low 2685 Otter Point Road RR. 2, Sooke, British Columbia V0S 1M0 CANADA Rover Car Club of British Columbia c/o Eric Russell PO Box 51555, 911 Park Royal South West Vancouver, BC, V7T 2X9 Series I Club c/o Dave Davey RR. 5, Bracebridge, Ontario P1L 1X3 CANADA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Land Rover of North America Bay State Rovers Association PO BOX 6836 c/o Jim Pappas OAKLAND CA 94603 USA. P.O. Box 342 Editor - Brad Blevins North Scituate, MA, 02060 2998 Atlantic St Concord, CA 94518 USA Blue Ridge Land ROver Club Dixieland Rovers c/o Mrs. Cheryl Ritchie c/o Steve Johnson P.O. Box 507 Route 3, Box 358 Parkersburg, WV, 26102-0507 Tofton, GA, 31794 Kansas Rover Group Land Rover Club of Chicago c/o James Merriam c/o Scott Strik 337 South Vassar #30, 4358 N. Bell Wichita, Kanas, 67218 Chicago, Ill, 60618 Northwoods Rover Group Pacific Coast Rover Club c/o Bill Osterhein c/o Gordon Perrot 2547 152nd Lane NE 10537 Interlake Avenue North Hamm Lake, MN, 55304 Seattle, WA, 98133 Royal Range Rover Society Rover Owners' Association 409 State Rte 17 S of Michigan Paramus, New Jersey, c/o Eric Russell 07652-2984 5260 Textile Road Saline, Michigan, 48176 Rover Owner's Association of VA Rover Owner & Vehicle c/o Sandy Enthusiast Register 1633 Melrose Parkway P.O. Box 45 Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA Basking Ridge, New Jersey, 07920 Rover Owners' Club Solihull Society 644 Garfield Pl. Box 916 Arroyo Grande, CA, 93420 Monument CO, 80132 Southwest Land Rover Owners' Association 1409 Santa Rosa Drive Santa Fe, NM, 87501 UNITED KINGDOM All these are member clubs of the Association of Rover Clubs Ltd. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The Accosiation of Rover Clubs Ltd. Andrew J. Stavordale, 65 Longmead Avenue, Hazel Grove Stockport. SK7 5PJ. Tel: 061 456 8224. ARC Overseas Liason Officer Fran Luxton, Woodbine Cottage, Lameton, Tavistoke, Devon PL19 8RZ Tel: 0822 610650 International - UK Based ------------------------ 101 Forward Control Club and Register Mr. H. Smith, 13 Gloucester Gardens, Baintree, Essey. GM7 GL6. Tel: 0376 552331 Forward Control Register, IIA and IIIB C. B. Heron, 28 Front Street, Daisy Hill, Sacriston, County Durham. DH7 6BL. Tel: 091 371 2527 Land Rover Register (1947 -- 1951) Richard Lines, 35 Park Road, Yeadon, Leeds. LS19 7EX. Tel: 0532 506546 Land Rover Series One Club. David Bowyer, East Foldhay, Zeal Monachorum, Crediton, Devon. EX17 6DH. Tel: 0363 82666, Business hours Only. Land Rover Series II Club. PO Box 1750, Bridport, Dorset. DT6 5YJ Tel: Land Rover Series III Club Frank King, 16 Holly Street, Cannock, Staffordshire. WS11 2RU Tel: 0543 423326 Lightweight Land Rovers Club. Sue Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 Range Rover Register Ltd. Les Booth, 794 Lower Rainham Road, Rainham, Kent. ME8 7UD. Tel: ---- All Wheel Drive Club. Peter Facey, 134 Sandyhurst Lane, Ashford, Kent. TN25 4NT Tel: 0233 621 507 Ex-Military LR Association. Mark Cook, 50 St Andrew Street, Leighton Buzzard, Beds. LU7 8DS Tel: 0525 372 016 ENGLAND ------- Breckland Land Rover Club Ltd. Wendy Chandler, 8 Acorn Road, North Walsham, Norfolk. NR28 0HA. Tel: 0692 404453 Cheltenham & Cotswolds Land Rover Club Ian Wood, 21 Oldbury Road, Cheltenham Gloucestershire. Tel: 0242 230793 Chiltern Vale Rover Owners Club Colin Argent, 21 Meadow Way, Codicote, Hitchin, Herts. SG4 8YL Tel: 0438 821581 Cornwall & Devon Land Rover Club Jean French, 5 Pinewood Close, Plympton, Plymouth, Devon. PL7 3DW. Tel: 0752 338279 Cumbrian Land Rover Club Peter Antiss, 11 Alder Close, Newton-With-Scales, Preston, Lancs. PR4 3TQ. Tel: 0772 685735 Dorset Land Rover and Range Rover Owners Club. Ruth Cooney, 104 Blackmore Road, Shaftsbury, Dorset. SP7 8RL. Tel: 0747 54377 East Northhants Land rover Owners Club Dave Vaughan, 1 Woodavens Close, Northampton. NN4 9TX. Tel: 0604 763626 Essex Land Rover Club David Bygrave, The Knoll, Bygrave Road, Ashwell, Nr Baldock, Herts. SG7 5RH. Tel: 046 274 2418 (evenings) Hants & Berks Rover Owners Gary Langton, 1 Hillside Court, 16 Solent road, Drayton, Portsmouth, Hants. PO6 1HH. Tel: 0705 388929 Lancashire & Cheshire Rover Owners Club Ian Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 (Note: Same address as the Lighweight Club.) Leicestershire & Rutland Land Rover Club M. J. Smith, 1 Yarwell Drive, Wigston Magna, Leicester. LE89 10F Tel: 0533 881041 Linconshire Land Rover Club Steve Wells, 6 Hall Farin Cottage, Binbrook, Lincon. LN3 6BW Tel: 0472 398019 Midland Rover Owners Club Derek Spooner, Bank Cottage, Abbots Moreton, Worcester. WR7 4NA. Tel: 0386 792767 Newcastle & Nantwitch Rover Owners Club Garry Thompson, 70 Cambridge Drive, Clayton, Newcastle, Staffs. ST5 3DQ. Tel: 0782 617224 North East Rover Owners Club Anne Timmins, North Lodge, Jesmond Dene Road, Jesemond Dene, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne. NE2 2EY. Tel: 091 281 1678 Nottingham Land Rover Club Annie Bentley, 19 Manns leys Cotgrave Nottingham. Tel: 0602 894282 Peak & Dukeries Land Rover Club Alan Reaney, 96 Ridgeway Road, Gleadless, Sheffield. S12 2SY Tel: 0742 655108 Pennine Land Rovers Club Sarah Hampton, Lulworth Cottage, 29 Church Lane, Bardsey Leeds. LS17 9DN. Tel: 0937 572292 Red Rose Land Rover Club B. L. Hart, 75 Coniston Road, Fulwood, Preston, Lancs. PR2 4AY. Tel: 0772 709391 Somerset & Wiltshire Rover Owners Club Elizabeth Green, 2 The Old Schoolhouse, Colford, Frome, Somerset. BA11 4HP. Tel: ---- Southern Rover Owners Club Tracey McCartney, 5 Regents Way, Crook Log, Bexleyheath, Kent. DA6 8BT. Tel: 081 301 5451 Staffordshire & Shropshire Land Rover Club Vanessa Johnson, 4 Waltham House, Overend Street, West Bromwich, West Midlands. B70 6ER. Tel: 021 553 4070 Yorkshire Rover Owners Club David Barker, Rivendell, 2 Huby Banks, North Yorks. LS17 0AH. Tel: 0423 734412 Anglian Rover Owners Club. Dave Thompson, 14 Black Swan Lane, Luton, Beds. LU3 2LU Tel: 0582 507 905 Buxton & District Land Rovers Club. Mrs C. Ollerenshaw, 29 Dale Road, Buxton. SK17 6LN Tel: 0298 71558 East Devon Off Road Club. Peter Broom, Armidale, Fenny Bridges, Honiton. EX14 0BG Tel: 0404 850 960 East Midlands Off Road Club. Martyn Jacques, Woodstock, Gainsborough Road, Winthorpe, Newark, Notts. NG24 2NN Tel: 0636 79421 Fosse & Watling Land Rover Club. Tel: 0455 848 228 or 0455 615 731 Fyfield LRC Mike Sassoon, Broom Hills, Ongar Road, Fyfield, Nr Ongar, Essex, CM5 0RB Tel: Humberside Land Rover Club. Ian Brimble, 37 Oaklands Drive, Hessle, Humberside. HU13 0LT tel: 0482 641 260 Isle of Dogs FWD Club Jon Dunning, 69 Teping Street, Clippers Quay, Isle of Dogs, London, E14 9UT. Tel: 071 515 6453. Isle of Wight 4x4 Club. Mike Penketh, 75 Church Road, Wootton, Isle of Wight. PO33 4PZ Tel: Lee Valley Land Rovers Club. Harry Stalick, 24 Love Lane, Chigwell, Essex. IG8 8BB Tel: 081 504 3873 Midland Off Road Club. Bruce Harris, 34 mayfield Road, Hurst Green, Halesowen. B62 9QW Tel:021 422 9465 Northern Off Road Club. Beverly Bairstew, 14 Ails House, Fairhaven Green, Idle, Bradford, West Yorks. BD10 9ND Tel: 0274 610 405 Northern Lakes 4x4 Club. Geoff Tomlinson, Holme Lea, Quarry Field, Stockdaleworth, Dalston, Carlisle, CA5 7DP Tel: South Downs Land Rover Club David Stevens, 32 Langney Green, Langney, Eastbourn. BN23 6HY. Tel: 0323 460 513 Southern Counties Off Road Club. Jane Dooley, 149 Slepe Crescent, Parkstone, Poole Dorset. BH12 4DL Tel: 0202 734 949 Suffolk 4-Wheel Drive Club. Mrs Maureen Leys, 2 Thelnetham Road, Blo Norton, Diss, Norfolk, IP22 2JQ. Tel: Surrey land Rover Club. David Patey, 110 Stafford Road, Wallington, Surry. SM6 9AY Tel: 081 647 0144 Twin Axel Club. Andrew Stirling, 4 Littleworth Cottages, Etherington Hill, Speldhurst, Kent, TN3 0ND. Tel: 0892 862676 Viking FWD Club. Ian Hamilton, 21 Narston Avenue, South Wigsin, Leics. Tel: 0858 432 345 IRELAND ------- Isle of Man 4WD Club. B. P. Waring, 58 Groudle Road, Onachan, Isle of Man. Tel: 0624 627 826 Northern Ireland FWD Club. Ian Henderson, 12 Abbot View, Newtownards, Co. Down. BT23 3XT Tel: 0247 811 584 (evenings) WALES ----- Mid Wales Four Wheel Drive Club. Carol Tweedle, "llwyn", Harford, Llanwrda, Dyfed. SA19 8DS Tel: North Wales Land Rover Club Dave Cuthbert, 25 Sunningdale Avenue, Colwyn Bay, Clwyd. LL29 6DF. Tel: 0492 534417 West Wales 4x4 Group D. Iwan Jenkins, Rofft, Aberporth Cardigan, Dyfed. SA4 3DF Tel: 0239 810 047 The Wye & Welsh Rover Owners Club Peter Slingerland, Old Bakery, The Square, Ruardean, Glostershire. GL17 9TJ. Tel: 0594 544058 SCOTLAND -------- Scottish Land Rover Owners Club Alan Walker, 77 Albert Avenue, Crosshill, Glasgow. G42 8RA. Tel: 041 423 8671 Ae 4x4 Club. Anne Smith, Closs Cottage, Closs, Boreland-by-Lockerbie, Dumfriesshire. DG11 2LQ Tel: 0576 6291 Buchan Off-Road Drivers' Club. Robert Farquhar, 44 Craigpark Place, Ellon, Aberdeenshire. AB41 9FG Tel: 0358 26668 Highland 4WD Club. Colin Stewart, Main Street, Newtonmore. PH20 1DA Tel: 054 03251 (daytime) Scottish Off Road Club. Bob Webster, 1 Hallyard Farm Cottages, Kirkliston. EH29 9DZ Tel: 031 333 4291 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:54:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: New member From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 10:41:06 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> writes: > I am new to the list. And your third message... :-) > One last question. The mechanic at Alan Christian Motors > commented that the V8 engine currently used in the Range Rover > and Defender could be installed in my series III with no > modifications other than changing the gearing in the > front and rear diffs. He stated that the engine mounts and > transmittion connections were exactly the same. Is anyone > willing to confirm or deny this. Deny it... The engine mounts need to be moved and you need an adapter plate for the gearbox mating. A few other things need to be addressed as well. Your biggest problem in the future will probably be breaking half-shafts, though driving skills off-road can eliminate this problem. Oh yeah, you don't need to change the gearing in the diffs. > Believe me I am glad to find this list. I was beginning to think > I was one of the last few surviving LROs in the US :-) Not a chance, there are quite a few about. They just are mostly in hiding, though do emerge for some fun several times a year. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:20:13 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 13:31:56 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: What else would a Lucas torpedo do but try to fly? Status: RO Forwarded-by: spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene "Chief Yuckster" Spafford) Forwarded-by: "Miles O'Neal" From: megatest!bldg2fs1!sfisher@uu2.psi.com (Scott Fisher) Six or seven years ago, I worked with a fellow with the very British name of Ken Appleby. He had a Spitfire, I had my '74 B, and we used to motor out to Pickwick's Pub and throw darts after work on occasion. Ken used to work for Lucas in the UK, specifically for a division of Lucas that did military electronics. My favorite of his stories was about the time he had been working on a computer-controlled torpedo. It used magnetic core memory to store the programs, which had the advantage of being very non-volatile as well as not susceptible to EMP discharge. So Ken got to ride on the boat for the first test of the torpedo that used the computer with his program in it. Somewhere out in the North Sea, on an R. N. cutter, Ken and his crew launched the first ever run of this new weapon, and Ken learned a new respect for debugging... The program was supposed to make the torpedo shoot off the boat, dive to a depth at which it couldn't be easily detected, then circle toward the target, climb to striking depth, and hit the target. There were on-board sensors to detect sea level, and the torpedo was supposed to travel at a preset distance below sea level, with constant feedback keeping it on track. Somehow, somewhere, Ken had multiplied one of the 3D coordinates by a negative number, and this error soon propagated through the transformation matrix (the mathematical construct that models 3D space), with predictable results. Within instants of hitting the water, the torpedo -- instead of sinking out of visible range -- blasted up and out from the water in a great silver fountain, then continued skipping across the surface of the blue like some sort of deranged wingless flying fish. Worse yet, instead of circling toward the target, it circled all right, but began to return to the ship that launched it. Fortunately it was not armed, but they still detonated the self-destruct on it rather than let it slice through their ship at 50 knots or whatever rate it travelled. Because of the non-volatile core memory, Ken was able to debug the program from what the Royal Navy frogmen could recover from it, and he fixed the problem for Rev 2.0. But I must admit that the image of the torpedo, splashing happily above the surface of the water like an aroused porpoise, is one that returns to me in idle moments such this. What else would a Lucas torpedo do but try to fly? | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================| From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 16:18:51 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniture land rovers To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 15:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at May 23, 94 04:18:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1543 Status: RO < I saw it first and if I don't get it I'm going to hold my breath until < I'm blue and my mom told me I could have it and if I don't get it I'll < never play here again. < I WANT THE: < GUMMY RUBBER LAND ROVER AND THE GUMMY RUBBER MAN THAT SITS IN THE BACK < OF THE GUMMY RUBBER LAND ROVER. AND I'LL LET YOU LOOK AT IT SOMETIME. < So There Awright. Deal's off! I was being nice and letting you have the tootsie, but I'll just have to take it all. I mean, when Robin reads all this belatedly I'm going to need the gummy rubber man to appease him. Naw, he probably already has ten of each and he wouldn't want a broken item. Maybe he would settle for the tootsie. Maybe Jan is sorry he found these useless items. __________________ O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] | __\__ ===========___/_ --------}========================== |** |/|(@ ## (@| **| | []| GO TOPLESS! |) | |/| ###### | | _____ | | ___ | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______|________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \_______________// \\ / |%{ @ } |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ 1966 Land Rover Tootsie Series 109" T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 18:35:45 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 19:26:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: miniture land rovers To: LRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO To: Jon and T.F. - I haven't laughed this hard at internet messages in years and years; i wish I had just piles of these (and in fact i may have a few more for you guys to fight over; i've been inspired to hunt them up now; stay tuned for further postings.) Certainly Robin was the one (and actually the only one) i expected to hear from and imagine he will be quite chuffed at having missed this skirmish but the early bird is more likely to get at least some of the worm. At present I'm undecided about what to do with these rovers... i've been to both pittsburgh and colorado and enjoyed both places but i was born in eastern Pennsylvania so i have a certain sympathy for those stuck in the western half of the state. On the other hand, the air is a little thin in Colrado and probably folks out there need something to focus their brains on... Oh, and wait, wasn't there a late post from someone on AOL who actually collects land rover toys... who knows, maybe these two are the very last he needs to complete his incredible collection. In which case he certainly shouldn't have them because then he'd have to find a new hobby. But maybe he's got extra gummy norwegian rovers and only needs the godzilla'd tootsie rover... in which case he could share the wealth with T.F. and Jon. anyway, thanks for the entertainment... jan p.s. (T.F. - i is a girl rover person) p.p.s. (boy, am i glad i didn't offer up my classic, red, 109 corgi...) p.p.p.s. ( and, no, don't even get yer hopes up...) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 19:23:05 1994 Date: 23 May 94 20:11:40 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: There I was Status: RO This incident happened quite a number of years ago when I was flying for a commuter airline on the west coast. (Don't panic there is a Rover in here somewhere). THE SETUP It was a bad hair day. The day started at 4:30 am. We checked the weather. It was grim and forecast to be grim all day - low clouds, rain, thunderstorms, and moderate and greater turbulence at all altitudes (one of the few times you could trust the forecast). While checking the cockpit we found that none of the radios worked. We tried cycling the master switch, checked circuit breakers and did all of the stuff the co-pilot and I could think of - all to no avail. We called maintenance. The avionics tech shows up - looks around - and turns the ON - OFF switches on the radios to the ON position. You have to understand NOBODY touches the ON - OFF switches on the individual radios you use the master switch which controls all the radios with one switch. Still, no excuse and we both felt about 2 inches tall. Off into the wild blue (actually VERY dark gray) yonder. Sure enough on each leg, all day, it is too turbulent for the flight attendants to serve the passengers so all day we put up with ticked off passengers (not one of my strong suits which is probably why I now fly for an overnight package express company). Traffic is backed up on each leg of the trip and we are getting further and further behind schedule. Now the last leg of the trip and we are heading home. #2 engine fire light illuminates -always good for a large shot of adrenaline. We checked the engine instruments and everything indicated normal but we shut down the engine as a precaution. Flying an aircraft in bad weather and turbulence is not a lot of fun but doing it with one engine shutdown definitely pegged the fun meter at 0. About 10 miles out on final approach the other engine's fire light illuminated. We were not about to shut down this engine especially since despite the fire light all the other engine indications were normal (not to mention that with both engines shutdown the operating range goes to heck). We landed without further incident but the company (in the form of the chief pilot) was upset (you would think we had done all this on purpose). Fire lights illuminating in flight and shutting down engines in flight require FAA notification. Both fire lights illuminating and shutting down an engine insured that the FAA would show up in droves. (Later investigation showed that a seal on the black box that controlled fire warning system had failed. Water entering the system caused progressive problems which led to first one fire indication, then to the second one. No actual fire occurred). THE ROVER PART By the time I was able to leave the airport it was dark and I had had all of humanity I could handle. I NEEDED TO GET AWAY. I climbed in my trusty Rover and headed for the hills. Now I know that offroading at night is not the most intelligent thing you can do but I was past intelligence at this point, I needed to go where no one else was, cool off commune with nature, etc. The trail I took ended in a dry river bed and I proceeded up the river bed. Eventually that slip-sliding feeling occurred and the Rover came to a stop. I got out to find myself in soft sand. No problem just let some air out of the tires and keep on trucking. For about 100 ft when I got stuck again. Just what I needed - a challenge to make me forget all about life's other problems. I tried digging out but no luck. The sand was just too soft. I tried the tree branches and bushes under the wheels trick - no luck. There was nothing around to hook up my cable and come-along to, so I connected the cable to the spare tire and buried it as an anchor to pull against. Well you guessed it, all I accomplished with my come-along was to pull the spare tire out of hole I buried it in. Now some real brain power was called for. My Coleman lantern was full and it guaranteed 7 - 14 hours of light so I had time to think this out. After cogitating for a while I remembered something I had read in the Rover manual. When in really soft sand put the transmission in first gear (or reverse) low range - loosen the spark plugs to relieve compression, insert the starting crank and turn slowly. The idea is that the wheels turn so slowly that they do not slip and will climb out of the soft sand. It worked!!! It only took 45 minutes of cranking to back the Rover up to firmer sand. Now you would think that at this point I was ready to relax and commune with nature or perform some other blood pressure lowering activity - but no, I had to drive further up the river bed. After all I was trying to get away from humanity wasn't I? Well after walking around with the Coleman lantern in hand I found a way up the river bed that would keep me on firm sand, so back into the Rover and off I went. For the next five or six minutes everything was hunky-dory. Then up ahead in the headlights - obstacles. "Well", I says to myself, "I will just veer left toward this clear area". Right about then the sinking feeling occurred and the Rover came to an abrupt stop. The second clue that something was wrong was when I opened the door the ground was only an inch below the door. The third clue was when I stepped out I immediately sank to my knees in goo. After a serious examination of the situation I turned to my Rover (his name is Rover) and said "Well Rover, we are well and truly *!@#& this time". He did not reply, but then again, it did not take a genius to know what he was thinking. After a five hour hike back to a paved road (it was well past daylight at this point) and a two hour wait for a farmer to pick me up (he made me ride in the back of the pick up truck since I was covered in dried mud from the waist down) I finally made it back to civilization. I called an aircraft mechanic friend of mine with a Dodge Power Wagon (the ignominity, the humiliation of it all) who pulled me out later that afternoon for the price of a case of beer and a substantial hit to my pride. THE LESSON I learned the following three things from this experience. 1. No matter how great the urge NEVER EVER offroad at night, especially in unfamiliar terrain. 2. When applying Ben Gay to sore spots (just about my entire body after this experience) do not roll over on the Ben Gay spot. Certain parts of the male anatomy were not designed for Ben Gay. 3. If you have had a really bad day kick the dog. When it bites back you will forget about your other frustrations. Older and Wiser Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 19:39:49 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: miniature land rover persons To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu (Jan Hilborn) Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 18:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jan Hilborn" at May 23, 94 07:26:07 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 955 Status: RO Jon & Jan -- < i may have a few more for < you guys to fight over; i've been inspired to hunt them up now; stay < tuned for further postings.) OK!!! This time I got, getted, gatted first dibs, dabs, dobs. They're mine -- even if they stink, stank, stunk. < On the other hand, the air is a little thin in < Colrado and probably folks out there need something to focus their brains < on... < p.s. (T.F. - i is a girl rover person) oops. 3 mistakes in one day. Surely that qualifies me for the prize (the gummy one, of course). My brain may be thinned out but I'm a person too and my rover is female also. Oh, you mean Jan is female? Impossible! Any Jan hawking tootsie rovers must be a bad czech in the male. And besides, one of the first LRO I ever knew was a Jan, and he was a HE. So there. T.(ootsie) F.(or) Mills -- and Gummy too! tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 20:09:00 1994 Date: 23 May 94 20:55:13 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Those toys are MINE! Status: RO Sheesh - I can't believe it. All these grown people fighting over two itsy- bitsy Land Rover toys. Look THOSE ROVER TOYS ARE MINE. I have got three small kids. Who knows what long term damage could be caused by Land Rover toy deprevation. Do you want to be responsible for that. Well do you. Besides I have owned my Rover before most of you could sa ma-ma. Since before Loyd Bridges started swimming- since before Daktari -since before well I can't remember. I expect to see those two Rovers in my mailbox by overnight express. Keith Steele 77126,1123@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 20:15:22 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 94 21:08:51 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Nigel update (I am sure you are all on the edge of your seats....) I have searched the NY metro area "worldwide" for an outfit that does quality (key word) machine shop work on clutch pressure plates. The best I've been able to come up with is a place called "Webco" located in Jersey, and my bits (the entire clutch pressure plate ass'y) would need to be shipped to there from a local distributor. This is one of those clutch and brake places that does "hundreds of those each day". Personally, I am more inclined to give my LR clutch over to a "I did one of those once, boy whatta bitch" types than a "seen 'em, done 'em, do 'em everyday" kinda place.... Estimated cost of machine shop work would be about $30-40 in these parts, not including disassembly, reassembly and adjustment (assuming they do it correctly). Springs, which are almost surely needed in a 34 year old 9" clutch, would be extra. "They got lotsa springs", I was told, to which I muttered a "gotta be genuine LR bits, I can tell ya where to get 'em", which evoked the "they got 'em" response once again. "What was that, a Land Cruiser?" "ah, fergetit." So I've begun to reconsider....and ship fitters is once again settling in.....so today I sprung for a 9.5" clutch for the Nige guy. My reasoning was as follows: 1) I am replacing the "nearly new but suspect" driven (friction) plate anyway. 2) Assuming the Webco folks did do a quality job, I'd be left with an inferior clutch. The kind honest chaps up at RN have informed me that the 9" clutch is notorious for poor performance, goes out of adjustment after about 10K miles, and that most people with clear consciences who dearly love their rovers replace 9" clutches with 9.5" ones all the time. 3) The above mentioned inferior clutch would probably cost me, after all was said and done, about $60-80 or so, and the _brand new_ 9.5" pressure plate assembly (including cover, springs, diaphram, plate) goes for a tad over $100. ok done. All I need to do now is have the flywheel machined (and numerous quality machine shops that can handle this have been identified). The only modification that I need to do is remove one of the locating studs on the flywheel (Nige is a SII, and this will be a SIIa clutch). Lanny at RN suggested that I have one stud machined down, so as to maintain balance, rather than remove it entirely. Note that it won't come out since the clutch cover will hold it down in place. In the meantime, I've been doing all sorts of non-rover stuff, like weddings (NOT mine), hangin' with the sig other, and tossing little tiny fake flies attached by hair-thin line into flowing waters. However, I have begun the task of replacing the rear main seal. Flywheel, flywheel housing, and old "retainers" (this was a two bit seal, which really isn't a seal at all, but more correctly two hemispherical bushes that ride against the crankshaft) were removed without serious incident. This is about as far as I got on a sunny Saturday afternoon before the sig other showed up with paddles in hand ready to try out the new top for Nigel (a canoe). Thus, the rest of this is still in the "planning stage". Getting the new seal (a four bit seal-two retainers, a _real seal_, and the spring that goes with it) in requires that the sump and rear main bearing cap be removed. The reassembly goes something like this: put the seal on, put the spring on the seal (lots easier said than done), bolt the top retainer to the block, with the seal in its proper orientation, greased, and con sealant. Bolt the lower seal retainer to the main bearing cap, and bolt the two in place. Torque, affix the remaing two bolts at the centerside of the retainers, and Vualla, new rear main seal. From the looks of things it has become readily apparent that I MUST follow this procedure, and cannot possibly get away with putting the lower retainer directly onto the bearing cap while the latter is in place-I will surely bust the seal. Besides, the "T" seals that go on the bearing cap also come with the kit, and oughta be replaced. But I have this minor dilema. Once the flywheel housing was removed I decided I must support the rear of the engine by blocks/jack under the sump. Last thing I want to do now is remove the sump (for which I will obviously have to remove the support under it) and have all the weight of the engine supported by the front two motor mounts. There really isn't enough room on the block to support the engine from (there is about 1/2" of flat space beside the sump mounting points, but that space will be dearly needed for refitting the rear main seal and rear main bearing cap), so me thinks it is time to support it from above. Good thing I parked Nige under some solid beams in an unfinished barn... (This barn is unfinished, incidentally, because my architecturally inclined brother Fred, who just came out of hiding today on this list, has yet to re-re-re-re-re-remodify the plans to suit the needs of an evermore demanding mother-aka Muddha-who has changed her mind at least a dozen times or so during this barn building ordeal......Just a little more guilt for you, Fred, but with a "qualifier".) Anyway, thanks to Fred, I have these good strong beams from which to support my block from. Surely, this oughta work just fine. Ok, left to do: finish the rear main seal (waiting for a sunny day, since I don't want the sump off and the bonnet up while Nige soaks in a barn sans roof). replace the seal and two gaskets on the clutch release housing...which brings to mind my sole question for those of you still with me: Do I have to remove the short spacer on the cross shaft (that connects the cross shaft to the lever that is actuated by the slave cylinder) in order to remove the clutch release housing ass'y? I suspect that I do, so does anyone have a suggestion for an easy way to get the pin out? reassemble clutch, etc. (there's lots in those last three letters). cheers folks, thanks for staying with me for those that did, sorry for the wasted bandwidth for those that didn't. rd/nigel. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 21:09:00 1994 Date: Mon, 23 May 1994 21:55:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: miniture land rovers To: Jan Hilborn Cc: LRO In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have no doubt that you are a girl person........HOWEVER......I have some doubt as to the validity of your claim of land rover ownership....I mean what true land rover hooligan would part with ANYTHING land roverish..(gummy men not withstanding...) I think that you should send Both these items to me....so I can compare them with the ones I already HAVE!!!! Heh Heh Heh! off to England Off my rocker! steve..... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 23 22:42:11 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Mon, 23 May 94 23:34:55 EDT Subject: Re: Minature Land Rovers Status: RO I believe i have hit upon a solution to the gummy/tootsie rover problem. I will take the rovers, and being a self-acknowledged expert on toy rovers, having collected them for 25 of my 28 years, i will make sure that they have proper care and restoration, carbon 14 dating, heilum-argon storage containers, with those funny things that look like earthquake indicators, and other scientific mumbley jumbley. They can become the new exhibits in the west wing (on the stereo, not the TV) of the first ever miniture land rover musuem. jan, don't worry these will not complete my collection, my friend, phil, (a volvo driver of all thing) has a Daktari corgi 109 complete with hunter, plastic cage and lion, i still have the hunter's rifle from mine, which was ripped from my hands by my evil step-mother and put down the garbage disposal (blatant attempt for simpathy) :-) anyway, i will not rest until i have the three rovers for my private collection... er the new glorious people's land rover musuem. I also have NO GUMMY ROVERS IN THE COLLECTION. Also I live in Mass. the postage from VT to MA is much less than three quarters around the world to CO or halfway to PA. I could even come up and get them saving you postage completely. Let's see T.F. and Jon offer to do that! Lastly, all of my toy rovers have much better steel than my big rover! spenny From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 03:09:47 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: New member - V8 -> SIII To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 08:59:08 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <8i7Rmc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "dixon kenner" at May 23, 94 10:41:06 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 248 Status: RO > can eliminate this problem. Oh yeah, you don't need to change the > gearing in the diffs. Err...if you have an overdrive, that is - otherwise you may find acceleration somewhat lively and top speed somewhat lacking... Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 04:41:14 1994 Subject: Re: New member To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 10:07:42 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at May 23, 94 10:32:47 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 661 Status: RO dixon kenner writes: > [....] > > Range Rover Register Ltd. > Les Booth, 794 Lower Rainham Road, Rainham, Kent. > ME8 7UD. Tel: ---- Les Booth moved a few doors down the road last week. His address is now: 667 Lower Rainham Road, RAINHAM, Kent ME8 7YT and phone number: (+44) 634 362334 Regards Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 04:30:56 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Miniature Land Rovers & people To: Spenny@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 03:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405232334.tn416378@aol.com> from "Spenny@aol.com" at May 23, 94 11:34:55 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1790 Status: RO < having collected them for 25 of my 28 years, i will make sure that they have < proper care and restoration... Spenny, you gotta be kidding. YOU are hardly old enough to be a Series IIA yourself. Shucks, I remember losing my rovers before you were born. That certifies me as a very wise and careful person. And here's more proof: I accept your offer to drive to VT to spare Jan the postage (just send the rovers to the address below.) As for Jon, he must be in a coma by now from holding his breath. So, Jan, I get the rovers, right? Jan? Jan? OK, I'll even stoop to stealing somebody's else metaphors and TeriAnn's typos, and butter you up with talk of self-lubricating wenches. But, Jan, don't do a Solomon; that would be too traumatic. .________________._____ /~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~//~~~~~| / // // | /_\.___ //__ \.___//_______| O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] |[_______] __\__ ===========___/_ --------}======= =================== |** |/|(@ ## (@| **| | []| |) | |/| ###### | | _____ | | ___ | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______| ________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \________ _______// \\ / |%{ @ } |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ 1966 Land Rover Solomon Series 109" T.(utti) F.(or) M.(e) tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 03:39:02 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: your mail To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 09:28:46 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405240108.VAA14645@transfer.stratus.com> from "Russell G. Dushin" at May 23, 94 09:08:51 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2589 Status: RO > modification that I need to do is remove one of the locating studs on the > flywheel (Nige is a SII, and this will be a SIIa clutch). Lanny at RN > suggested that I have one stud machined down, so as to maintain balance, > rather than remove it entirely. I would *strongly* advise against this. The dowels are there to locate the clutch precisely in relation to the flywheel for reasons of balance. One stud on its own clearly cannot do this, and I would not rely on the securing bolts for alignment, since the holes for these in the cover are not as close a fit. 9.5" clutches are located by three dowels, rather than the two of the 9" clutch. These are a press fit in the flywheel, though will probably be difficult to remove - ie you are unlikely to be able to pull them out with pliers. Before proceeding, you need to verify whether your flywheel face has extra dowel holes (in the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions, assuming you will leave one dowel in the 6 o'clock position). If your flywheel has only two dowel holes, it is an early type not designed for the 9.5" clutch. In this case you will need either to obtain a later flywheel, or have extra holes drilled accurately into the flywheel face, or else have the flange of the 9.5" clutch cover drilled accurately with another dowel hole between any two of the existing ones. Assuming you either already have the extra holes or have arranged for them, since you will be removing the flywheel, you will have easy access to both sides of the flywheel and should be able to remove the studs with one of these two methods: 1) is by far the preferably method - look at the back of the flywheel. There should be a number of holes drilled adjacent to the flange. Some of these are blind, but two are drilled straight through, directly beneath the locating holes for the two studs - just punch the offending stud out with a long slim punch. This is how mine was done. 2) if your flywheel doesn't have these holes, grip the offending stud *firmly* in a vice, with the flywheel either face up (using one of those vices with swivelling jaws) or vertical, tap the flywheel with a plastic or copper-faced mallet. The dowels should come out with a little persuasion. Having removed the dowel, obtain two new ones and tap them *gently* into place - it doesn't take a lot of force and you don't want to sink the shoulder below the flywheel face, it should be flush with it or no more than a few thou below. Now fit your clutch - you will find it bites rather fiercely compared to the 9"! Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 04:11:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: There I was Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 10:04:12 UNDEFINED Status: RO >THE LESSON >I learned the following three things from this experience. >1. No matter how great the urge NEVER EVER offroad at night, >especially in unfamiliar terrain. >2. When applying Ben Gay to sore spots (just about my entire body >after this experience) do not roll over on the Ben Gay spot. Certain >parts of the male anatomy were not designed for Ben Gay. >3. If you have had a really bad day kick the dog. When it bites back >you will forget about your other frustrations. 4. If AT ALL unsure of a section, stop, get out, and walk it first.....And checkout how you get out, ASSUMING you'll get stuck +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 09:53:21 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: your mail To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Tue, 24 May 94 10:43:52 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405240828.AA00360@it036.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at May 24, 94 9:28 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Marcus Replied: > > modification that I need to do is remove one of the locating studs on the > > flywheel (Nige is a SII, and this will be a SIIa clutch). Lanny at RN > > suggested that I have one stud machined down, so as to maintain balance, > > rather than remove it entirely. > > I would *strongly* advise against this. The dowels are there to locate the > clutch precisely in relation to the flywheel for reasons of balance. One stud > on its own clearly cannot do this, and I would not rely on the securing bolts > for alignment, since the holes for these in the cover are not as close a fit. > > 9.5" clutches are located by three dowels, rather than the two of the 9" > clutch. These are a press fit in the flywheel, though will probably be > difficult to remove - ie you are unlikely to be able to pull them out with > pliers. > > Before proceeding, you need to verify whether your flywheel face has extra > dowel holes (in the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions, assuming you will > leave one dowel in the 6 o'clock position). If your flywheel has only two > dowel holes, it is an early type not designed for the 9.5" clutch. In this > case you will need either to obtain a later flywheel, or have extra holes > drilled accurately into the flywheel face, or else have the flange of the 9.5" > clutch cover drilled accurately with another dowel hole between any two of the > existing ones. My flywheel has only two dowels (early SII type). I like your suggestion, but wonder if I am better off having two holes drilled in the flywheel or just one drilled in the 9.5" clutch cover housing. Then again, I do have a spare flywheel about.....me thinks I'll try using that one (assuming it can be salvaged, not to mention removed, from the block it's been on for years and years and years while resisting the pull of gravity as it sits, sats, and sinks into the earth it has rested on since the late 70's.) Thanks (again), rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 10:29:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Another new piece for the FAQ, Canadian oriented though... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 10:48:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO 9.2 PARTS: BASIC INFORMATION - CUSTOMS & EXCISE, CANADA This unofficial information is for general guidance only. The rules change often, so consult the authorities listed below for current information. 1. DUTY FREE TOURIST EXEMPTIONS Your "duty free" limits are $20.00 after 24 hours absence (no booze or tobacco!), $100.00 after 48 hours absence (maximum 40 ounces or 1.14 litres booze and 200 cigarettes) and $300.00 after 7 days absence (same booze and tobacco limits). The $20.00 and $100.00 exemptions can be claimed as often as you wish but the $300.00 exemption is once a year. Limits are in Canadian dollars including booze and cigarettes. You cannot pool exemptions and must declare all items acquired abroad even if you did not buy them. Undeclared goods can result in the seizure of the goods and your vehicle and the penalties for the return of seized goods and vehicles can be very high. Hints: Stop at Customs on your way out for the "I Declare" brochure and identification cards for valuable items. Keep receipts for gas, food and lodging to prove the length of your absence. Keep a detailed list of your purchases abroad for presentation to Customs on your return. 2. DUTIES AND TAXES Goods valued in excess of your exemption are subject to customs duty and GST. Rates of duty differ for various commodities and depending on the country of origin of the goods. Customs duty is a percentage of the price of the goods and GST is charged on the total of the purchase price plus the Customs duty. Contact Customs for rates of customs duty on particular commodities and preferential rates of duty on goods in excess of your exemption limits. 3. IMPORTING GOODS THROUGH THE POST AND BY COURIER Parcel post shipments under $20.00 (Cdn) are duty free but subject to duty and GST on the full value if over $20.00 value. Canada Post will collect any duty owing and will charge a $5.00 processing fee. Courier shipments from the USA (UPS, PUROLATOR, FEDEX, etc.) are not much faster and are more expensive. In addition to courier charges, you may have to pay a fee for customs brokerage. Also, you'll probably have to go further to pick up your parcel if you're not home when the courier attempts delivery. 4. IMPORTING MOTOR VEHICLES Be careful - both Customs rules and Transport Canada rules apply. Contact the appropriate authorities before you attempt to import any vehicle: a) New Vehicles - New vehicles can be imported but must conform to Canadian specifications. Do not assume a USA-built vehicle is OK, check with Transport Canada. Customs duty will apply and GST will be b) Used Vehicles Imported From A Country Other Than The U.S.A. - As a general rule, Canadian residents cannot import a used vehicle unless it is at least 15 years old. There are no Transport Canada requirements if the vehicle is 15 years old. If the age requirement is met, the vehicle can be imported subject to payment of customs duty and GST (see above). If the vehicle is more than 25 years old, there is no customs duty but the GST applies. The authorities for the removal of the duty on 25 year old vehicles and their parts are Statutory Concessions 2440 (vehicles) and 2441 (parts) found in Schedule 2 of the Customs Tariff 1994. Check with customs authorities in the country of export regarding possible export formalities. c) Used Vehicles Imported From The U.S.A. - Used motor vehicles may be imported from the USA. The vehicle must have been registered in the U.S.A. but not necessarily manufactured there. Transport Canada equipment requirements apply if the vehicle is not 15 years old; do not assume a vehicle produced in the USA conforms to Canadian requirements. If eligible, the vehicle can be imported subject to payment of customs duty and GST (see above). The rate of customs duty varies depending on whether the vehicle was manufactured in the USA. If the vehicle is more than 25 years old, there is no customs duty (see above) but the GST applies. Check with U.S. Customs regarding possible export formalities. d) Value for Duty of Imported Vehicles - Customs duty is calculated on the purchase price, if reasonable. Alternatively, Customs will use an objective source of information such as the Red Book. e) Provincial Sales Tax and Registration - Imported vehicles will probably be subject to PST when registered in Canada - check with your local authorities. Imported vehicles will not be registered by provincial authorities without the proper Customs forms. Hints: Check with Transport Canada regarding equipment requirements. Ensure you have a proper Bill of Sale and previous registration documents. Make available proof of vehicle age (photocopy of registration document) if you intend to claim duty-free entry of parts for a vehicle more than 25 years old. 5. Sources of Information a) For Customs information, contact your local Customs office. In Ottawa, the office is at 2265 St. Laurent Blvd., K1G 4K3, the telephone number is (613) 993-0534. Ask for copies of the brochures "I Declare", "Importing a Motor Vehicle Into Canada" and "Personal Importations by Mail". b) For information on equipment requirements for imported vehicles, contact Road Safety and Motor Vehicle Regulation Directorate, Transport Canada, 344 Slater Street, Ottawa, K1A 0N5, telephone (613) 998-2174. M. Jackson - OVLR May 1994 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 10:28:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Didn't go off to Otter Lake... :-( From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 10:53:49 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO A semi-productive holiday weekend (Monday was a national holiday in Canada, Victoria Day in celebrations of the Queen's birthday), but the Swamp Beast never made it out of the Ottawa area for a forest excursion. It seems that a sound, more reminescent of a coffee grinder full of brazil nuts was growing in tone, clearly calling me to go and see what it was complaining about. Well, we did all of the traditional things. Remove the front drive shaft and see what condition it was in (u-joints are not bad, the splines on the driveshaft itself are finished). Take the Rover around for a drive and see how that happy sound was doing. Well, a little better, but it was still there. Step two, check all of the oil levels. (It had been six months...) Oil levels were all ok, though down a bit in the transfer box. Drive the LR about some more. No appreciable change... :-( Oh well, step three was to swipe the spare gearbox off of Ted, toss it in the back of the 109 and high-tail it back to Ottawa before George (who also wants the box) managed to discover that I got to it first. (George's 109 will not go into high range, though adjustment on the high-low lever has not been checked yet...). Step four, sometime in the near future (ie before the Birthday party) change gearboxes... :-( Oh well, I did pull the right rear half shaft to address an oil leak problem. There is one of the six bolts sheared off in the flange, and despite a left-handed drill bit from Dale, the later application of a screw extractor, it is still held on with only five bolts. Oh well, at least the rotten (half there) gasket has been changed... More productively, Dale is moving ahead in his refurbishment of his 88". Sunday was removing the rear floor so that it can be replaced. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 10:10:46 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Em Oh Tee To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 15:59:32 BST Status: RO Say Em Oh Tee (MOT) to any native English Land Rover of respectable age,and one of two things will happen. 1) Irt will immediately throw an *enourmous* wobbler an develope a rash of nervous faults(like my typos),mostly of the electrical persuasion(what was wrong with acetylene lights anyway?),and get measles in the chassis,or... 2)Will decide that while you are mucking about mending things it doesnt consider to be broken in the first place,you may as well pay attention to the bits it *does* want you to do,but has so far been unable to bring to your attention politely. So what you get is this...that wheel bearing squealing AGAIN,well, OK you had the welding done,but that was the wrong end wasnt it, no RH brake light,no LH indicator light,fixed those have you?right, the steering swivels you took up last week werent to my liking,so you can do *them* again,proerly this time,and use the bloody MICROMETER for God's sake.There,I've dropped the bump stop rubber off into your hand,what do you *mean* you havent got any glue,go and *get*some then.Now about these back tyres,it really isnt on you know, and I want some like I saw on that S111 of your mates,bugger this cross ply stuff,I mean you are a sodding *awful* driver arent you,so we really *need* those radials,so you dont get me stuck on perfectly level grass again,dont know who was more embarrased you or me.......and more of the same.At this point you give in,do what it wants,ring up the testing station, and arrange for the test first thing next morning.Crafty this,because *it* thinks its just taking you to work,and by the time the dozy sod wakes up enough to dream up yet *more* wants,the test is over.There.Didnt hurt much did it? I dont know what other countries have instead of our farce of a "test" but ours is stedily getting to be more a way of selling spares,garage services, and new cars than anything remotely approaching road safety.Every year you get this goon of a "mechanic" taking over your vehicle with the attitude of "Ooooooh,der yer,I can *bust* this".This years assistant mechanic(he's just the same,but with *negative* brain,yes it is possible),was told to switch the sidelights on.Head disappears below dashboard.Er,er.Sounds of frantic switching.I went to have a look.The heater was going nicely.The bloody switch is labelled in*English* for heavens sake.Side/Head,it says.Who says illiteracy is dead?Time is spent checking the doors shut.Productive. Especially when you have to unlock them first.Thats so they can open them and shut them.To do the guy some credit,he did eventually decide that if the assistant couldnt find the light switch,he more than likely couldnt find the brake pedal(well,its not even labelled with a little picture,is it?) so he chucked him out of the cab and sent him to operate the brake pressure buttons under *strict* supervision.Now I *know* why my Grandfather was reputed to have said after the first war that England was now a land fit for idiots to live in.And they had horses then. Cheers Mike Rooth this time From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 07:23:22 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 24 May 94 23:38:19 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Miniature Land Rovers Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> Jan Hilborn sez; anyway, i've no need for these little gems and would be happy to send them off to anyone out there who can't live without them. free. unless of course there is more than one person out there who wants them in which case you guys can fight it out and let me know where to send the victor their prize. meanwhile i'm just going to drive them all over my deask leaving cool tracks in the inch deep dust... >> Jan, Forget what the other guys say. Here are the Top 10 Reasons you should send those lovely little Rovers to MMMEEEE: 1. I'm better looking than they are 2. I smell better than David Carradine 3. I've got coupons for MC D's that I'll be happy to share with you 4. The next time I'm up your way I'll take you on a tour of Ben & Jerry's ice cream factory, and I'll pick up the tab for the tour! 5. I may not be as well, er, "equipped" as John Holmes, but at least I'm breathing 6. I've got a red Corgi too! We must be kindred spirits! 7. While I enjoy playing with my Dinky at the office, something a little smaller would be more discrete and less embarrasing 8. Dr. Edwards says that if I get involved in a hobby, I won't have quite so many personalities 9. I'm more fun than Pee Wee Herman in a movie theater. 10. I live in New Jersey. Have pity on me Bill :-) maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 07:23:22 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 24 May 94 23:38:19 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Miniature Land Rovers Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> Jan Hilborn sez; anyway, i've no need for these little gems and would be happy to send them off to anyone out there who can't live without them. free. unless of course there is more than one person out there who wants them in which case you guys can fight it out and let me know where to send the victor their prize. meanwhile i'm just going to drive them all over my deask leaving cool tracks in the inch deep dust... >> Jan, Forget what the other guys say. Here are the Top 10 Reasons you should send those lovely little Rovers to MMMEEEE: 1. I'm better looking than they are 2. I smell better than David Carradine 3. I've got coupons for MC D's that I'll be happy to share with you 4. The next time I'm up your way I'll take you on a tour of Ben & Jerry's ice cream factory, and I'll pick up the tab for the tour! 5. I may not be as well, er, "equipped" as John Holmes, but at least I'm breathing 6. I've got a red Corgi too! We must be kindred spirits! 7. While I enjoy playing with my Dinky at the office, something a little smaller would be more discrete and less embarrasing 8. Dr. Edwards says that if I get involved in a hobby, I won't have quite so many personalities 9. I'm more fun than Pee Wee Herman in a movie theater. 10. I live in New Jersey. Have pity on me Bill :-) maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 10:29:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: New member - V8 -> SIII From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 10:43:52 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk writes: > > can eliminate this problem. Oh yeah, you don't need to change the > > gearing in the diffs. > > Err...if you have an overdrive, that is - otherwise you may find acceleration > somewhat lively and top speed somewhat lacking... Yeah, but you still don't need to change them. If you have the donor vehicle, or $$$ sure, change them. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 11:05:38 1994 Date: Tue, 24 May 94 08:56:09 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, Jan@apple.com, Hilborn@apple.com, jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu, LRO@apple.com, LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: miniture land rovers Status: RO In message Steven M Denis writes: > > I have no doubt that you are a girl person........HOWEVER......I have some > doubt as to the validity of your claim of land rover ownership....I mean > what true land rover hooligan would part with ANYTHING land > roverish..(gummy men not withstanding...) I think that you should send > Both these items to me....so I can compare them with the ones I already > HAVE!!!! Heh Heh Heh! > > off to England > Off my rocker! > steve..... > > > HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" > > Steven M. Denis > PO BOX 61 > Erieville,NY 13061 > CHILDREN BEHAVE!!!!!!! You are going a long way to prove my theory that the 90's will be known as the "I want all the limited resources for myself and #@%! anyone else who wants a part of it" decade. Perhaps the cute toys should be put away until the squabling childern lean to be a tad bit more polite. Good grief! TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 11:14:52 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: miniture land rovers To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 17:05:51 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405241556.AA28955@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at May 24, 94 8:56 am Status: RO > > In message Steven M Denis > writes: > > > > I have no doubt that you are a girl person........HOWEVER......I have some > > doubt as to the validity of your claim of land rover ownership....I mean > > what true land rover hooligan would part with ANYTHING land > > roverish..(gummy men not withstanding...) I think that you should send > > Both these items to me....so I can compare them with the ones I already > > HAVE!!!! Heh Heh Heh! > > > > off to England > > Off my rocker! > > steve..... > > > > > > HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" > > > > Steven M. Denis > > PO BOX 61 > > Erieville,NY 13061 > > > > CHILDREN BEHAVE!!!!!!! > > You are going a long way to prove my theory that the 90's will be known as the > > "I want all the limited resources for myself and #@%! anyone else who wants a > part of it" > > decade. > > Perhaps the cute toys should be put away until the squabling childern lean to be > a tad bit more polite. > > Good grief! > > > > > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > LINK: TWAKEMAN > 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 > > Ayup,lads,mum's cross.Wait 'till your father gets home...... Tha'll get a reet beltin' wi' 'is stick,baah goom. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 11:17:40 1994 Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 12:06:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Miniature Land Rovers Gummy type Cc: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu Status: RO To: Misz Jan Hilborn, Jan, as you know, I was the firstest with the mostest, and I "need" the GUMMY RUBBER NORWEGIAN KNOCK OFF LAND ROVER, WITH THE GUMMY RUBBER MAN IN THE BACK. And for spite---I would like the Tootsie Toy Also, just to keep Mr Mills in check. In the "Land Rover Toy book of rules",it clearly states on page 2a, para.iia "To the victor--go the spoils==and the gummy rubber ones in contention." And in order to save postage, I will dispatch my Holy Rover Pigeon with the built in homing device to pick them up. (I just need an address for him to flap to) BTW his name is Lord Pickwick, so when you meet him, you can say "Hi Lord Pickwick" it is truly a nice day for a flight. Don't let these other blokes sway you from the path of rightousness, they talk a big deal, all this stuff about Olaf and deprived kids, it's all HOGWALLER. By sending the covited ones to me you will have the knowledge of knowing the gummy ones are hanging out with Royalty of the British Pursuasion. They; (gummy and tootsie) will be displayed on a ship called "MAYFLOWER OF REDONDO BEACH" for all to behold.Along with Prince Willie the pee monarch, and \\ his little dog "Ralph" \\\\ \\ \\\\\\ _===___======== \_________/ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ Thank you Jan, I will send Pickwick FLAPPING today after I fatten him up. Now TO all you other guys; T.F.Mills Keith Steele Steven M. Dennis Spenny Bill Maloney Na Na Na Na Na Nah! I'm gonna get em, I'm gonna get em--( the gummy rubber norwegian knock off land rover with the little gummy rubber man in the way back, and the Tootsie Toy.) So wadda ya say to that? # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium ++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/ ,.________________. /~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~} / // } } "67-109" []]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP []]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============| ____=========_____------| | | | |/|@) (@| | | | | | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ | | |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ | |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_|| |___________________|[ } |[ ] \ / \ \ / \\ } ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 11:38:26 1994 Date: Tue, 24 May 94 09:21:22 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Didn't go off to Otter Lake... :-( Status: RO In message writes: snip > swipe the spare gearbox off of Ted, toss it in the back of the 109 > and high-tail it back to Ottawa before George (who also wants the > box) managed to discover that I got to it first. (George's 109 > will not go into high range, though adjustment on the high-low > lever has not been checked yet...). Step four, sometime in the > near future (ie before the Birthday party) change gearboxes... :-( > If the high-low lever was removed and replaced just before the problem occured, it is probably bolted to the wrong side of its mounting location. I did this once. It looked right but I could only get it into low & neutral. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 12:45:10 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Miniature Land Rovers Gummy type To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 11:12:01 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4hsWLre00iV582ImwB@andrew.cmu.edu> from "Jon Humphrey" at May 24, 94 12:06:15 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1292 Status: RO < So wadda ya say to that? Anybody with a fat pigeon named Pickwick, and a euro-peein' prince, and a tootsie this short < ,.________________. < /~~~~~~//~~~~~~{~~~~} < / // } } "67-109" < []]]]]]]]]]]------/[ } PICKUP < []]]]]]]]]]]=======|----|============| < ____=========_____------| | | < | |/|@) (@| | | | | < | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | __ | < | |/||||||| |{ \__________/ \ | < |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_|| < |___________________|[ } |[ ] < \ / \ \ / \\ } < ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ obviously has a guano problem and cannot be trusted with gummier rovers. I don't care what Ma Wakeman says, the true blue stinky Norwegian is mine. I don't care if I can't tell a ford from fjord, or a raven from a rover, or a pigeon from a pig, I WANT IT. And Olav is bigger than Willie, even if he is dead. And my logic is impeccable. QED. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 14:06:47 1994 From: Dan Chayes Subject: head rebuild To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 13:33:45 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO Hi I finaly got the head reinstalled in my '74 88 2.25petrol engine and there is one thing that concerns me just a tad. The foward end of the rocker arm is dry ( no oil ). ( Of course there is lots of oil under the car ;-). There is oil coming from the small copper tube that connects to the aft end of the head, i assume that that should feed down the middle of the rocker arm shaft ? Does this group have any good suggestions before I dismantle the the whole thing again? Thanks in advance dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 13:38:44 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: Miniature Land-Rovers From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Tue, 24 May 94 19:58:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I WANT THEM, THE MINIATURE LAND-ROVERS!!!!! 1) Nobody on this list lives as far from those little Rovers as me. 2) Nobody could have more problems receiving them (italian mail is the worst of Europe, and of the world). 3)I have just bought a miniature Jeep that will be crushed and reduced to bits by the Land-Rovers (not the gummy one). 4)I want to teach my cat what a Land-Rover is. 5)I am building a little dust-cleaner that will go to the PTO hole of the gummy one. I desperately need it to clean my desk. 6)I have a small plastic woman that wants to meet the man riding in the 109. 7)I have a lot of broken miniature cars around here, and I need the Land-Rovers for towing them. Ok, I'm waiting for the two little beasts.. _________________________________________________________ __________________________ |--------------------------| 1984 /____________________________\ Series III || || || 88 || || || Land Rover || || || Station Wagon ||______ ______||______ ______|| -------- |______ / ______ \ ______| 1977 | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | Series III |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| Lightweight |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| (coming soon) | ||___|______|___|| | | | \__|______|__/ | | |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| |__________________________________| | | | | | | | | ____|____|______________________|____|___________________ ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it _________________________________________________________ --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 15:50:16 1994 Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:40:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: mini land rovers To: LRO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO hmmmm, what to do, what to do... first off, i have before me yet another small landie; not very unusual this time since it's a blue matchbox 90 but at least it'll make distribution a little more fair. (once i get around to distributing which i ain't even close to yet) second off, i've pretty much decided that there will be no more than one rover to a customer (unless, of course, i send them all to Teri Ann and let *her* decide what to do with them... that would take care of things right smart now wouldn't it...) third off, i've pretty , much eliminated ol' Steve Denis from the running since we've actually met at Rovers North Rally's and i can't believe he'd question my land rover commitment. i'm well and truly insulted and all that stuff. (i still really really like his license plate tho... it's very clever) fourth forth, i *know* i have at least two more small rovers hiding out and about and will look for them this week/weekend. (one was quite small and would fit in the bed of my red corgi). I will render my final decision next monday. i'm enjoying this silliness heaps and welcome further silliness but i want to be sure the serious rover folks out there don't get upset with us for filling up their mail folders with yammering for toys... ta for now - jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 15:24:25 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 25 May 94 07:51:13 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Head Rebuild Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> I finaly got the head reinstalled in my '74 88 2.25petrol engine and there is one thing that concerns me just a tad. The foward end of the rocker arm is dry ( no oil ). ( Of course there is lots of oil under the car ;-). There is oil coming from the small copper tube that connects to the aft end of the head, i assume that that should feed down the middle of the rocker arm shaft ? Does this group have any good suggestions before I dismantle the the whole thing again? Thanks in advance dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil >> Dan, There are one or two locating bolts in the top of the locating brackets for the rocker shaft. They are short and have a pin at the end. Remove one and crank the engine until you have oil pressure (prefferably with the plugs removed and the coil grounded). This will confirm if oil is reaching your rockers. If there is no oil coming out of the hole, then there is a blockage between the oil block-to-head tube and the shaft itself. If there is oil coming out and the front rockers are still dry you should dissasemble the rocker shaft assembly and thouroughly clean and clear all of the oil holes. Good Luck! Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 17:27:14 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: The miniature ITI rover To: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 16:19:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Ludovico Magnocavallo" at May 24, 94 07:58:00 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1543 Status: RO Ludovico dice: < 2) Nobody could have more problems receiving them (italian mail is the < worst of Europe, and of the world). Ah, but the femails are something else, eh wot? < 6)I have a small plastic woman that wants to meet the man riding in < the 109. Ecco! Un gentiluomo raffinato! Your argument has swayed me. I wave my prior claim. The gummy little man is yours. I hope the stinky little Norwegian gets along with la bella gummosa italiana. And since Jon hasn't suffocated yet, I surrender my claim to the tootsie. BUT THE ROLAVOVER IS MINE! .________________._____ /~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~//~~~~~| / // // | /_\.___ //__ \.___//_______| O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] |[_______] __\__ ===========___/_ --------}========================== |** |/|(@ ## (@| **| | []| VIVA L'ITALIA |) | |/| ###### | | _____ | | VIVA NORVEGIA | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______|________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \_______________// \\ / |%{ @ } |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ 1966 GIROVAGO DI TERRA SERIE GOMMA T.(utti) F.(rutti) Megalomane tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 17:52:04 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: LRO Subject: Re: mini land rovers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 May 94 16:40:44 PDT." Date: Tue, 24 May 94 15:44:15 PDT Status: RO In message you write: > > first off, i have before me yet another small landie; not very unusual > this time since it's a blue matchbox 90 but at least it'll make > distribution a little more fair. (once i get around to distributing which > i ain't even close to yet) I got one of those. I find it amusing to play with the Blue 90 instead of doing homework. Maybe it's just stree release... > i'm enjoying this silliness heaps and welcome further silliness but i > want to be sure the serious rover folks out there don't get upset with us > for filling up their mail folders with yammering for toys... It's still an amusing banter. A month from now though, I might have a different opinion. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:08:04 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: ownership of toys From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 19:01:26 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dear Jan, I have been out of the circuit fo a day and suddenly there are over 50 messages on the system. I guess the gate just opened at Dixons end. The Norwegian rubber toy is nice, there are a great number of different colours to this one. Also I have seen variations with wind screens fitted etc. Very nice toy, was designed to be non harmfull to kids. Quite collectable. There are tow sizes of Tootsie Toys Land Rovers, both are green. They are similar but definitly not a large and small version of the same. Andy, a friend of mine (yes people, I do have loyal friends) who collects with me has a trailer for the bigger one. I have not seen a trailer for the smaller one but that does not mean that it does not exist. The Matchbox Defender 90 is a nice version. There are a number of differnt colours available with horsebox, towing a boat on a trailer, I have about 10 easily recognisably different versions. >From what I have learned about Land Rover toys is that you should never stop looking for them. They turn up in the most unlikely places, like out of the way convenience stores. Garage sales, all over. I am telling you this as I strongly feel that you should keep them yourself. When Andy and I were putting our collection on Display at the Land Rover Canada offices last week we had great fun recounting to each other the story behind each acquisition. No matter how battered they are we love them. I think that if you get into it you might have the fun we have. We do not collect as a hedge against inflation, we do it for fun. When it stops being fun then I'll stop. Let these other people get out there and find their own toys, there are plenty around if you look. Would you like to see some pics of what Andy and I have? I have some around here. TO ALL OF YOU ON THE SYSTEM. I will still be watching what is going on over the next month or so but will be contributing little, I have too big a workload at the moment. TO MIKE ROOTH. Loved the accent, bet most of them can't imagine what you wrote would sound like! Regards MIKE ROOTH THE ABOVE WAS TO BE A MESSAGE TO MIKE, but I am doing it in private now. Regards Robin Craig, Ottawa Ontario. CANADA -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:09:04 1994 Date: 24 May 94 19:52:12 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Minature Rovers Status: RO Well I think this toy Rover thing has gone just about far enough. I can see that all appeals to humor, charity, decency, humanity, and fair play have fallen on deaf ears. It is time we settled this like REAL MEN. I will give you Park Place and 1 hotel. Anyone willing to top that? Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:10:46 1994 Date: 24 May 94 19:57:01 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Thanks & Vacation Status: RO I have been on this list for only a week but have thoroughly enjoyed the experience. To those of you who kindly provided information on Rover clubs and Rover parts sources many thanks. To the rest of you who have provided the best entertainment since the Smothers Brothers, many thanks as well. I am leaving for a two week vacation and my wife informed me that if I even thought of taking along my laptop it would meet an untimely and most likely fatal incident. I will be in total suspense not knowing the resolution of the Great Miniature Land Rover Toy Caper. See you all again in two weeks Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:13:56 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 20:05:19 EDT Subject: Minature Rovers & the Peoples... Status: RO Since Tom is good enough to waive his erroneous belief that he should get all the rovers I will renounce my claims to the tootsie & Gummy rovers in the name of the people's glorious miniture land rover musuem in favor of the the small one that will fit in the bed of the red Corgi. Ms. Wakeman, Judging from her address is an apple computer employee and should worry more about why the powerbook 540c costs more than twice what I have spent on my big (and slightly gummy at times) rover, than attempting to limit our very limited minature landrover resourses. :-) Jon writes: In the "Land Rover Toy book of rules",it clearly states on page 2a, para.iia "To the victor--go the spoils==and the gummy rubber ones in contention." well Jon, you have the misprinted second printing of the fourth edition it should read "To the victor--go the SOILS==and the gummy rubber ones in contention." Soils not Spoils. only a true Minature Landrover collector would know this, but since I feel for a fellow land rover owner i think you shoud get the oil spots left where they were sitting on jan's desk after allx To the victor--go the SOILS== and Benjamin Smith was bold enough to point out It's still an amusing banter. A month from now though, I might have a different opinion. well after spending the last 6 months trying to rid my rover of the beast, the one whose name should not be spoken; L****S Prince of Darkness a month of sillyness would be just the thing! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:33:21 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Tue, 24 May 1994 19:25:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: NADA 6 Cyl Frnt Axle To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Okay - This isn't as good as Jan's offer (it's neither squashed nor gummie), but I have a possible freebie. My parents are getting annoyed at the Rover bits that naturally accumulate in the garage of a Rover owner, and since I'm at college, it's hard for them to deal with. So, the "coffin", as it is fondly named, has to go. This is a Genuine parts front axle shipping box which holds a genuine parts 1967 6 cyl front axle (well used, but not seized) So, this can go to the highest bidder ($ 0.00 IS an acceptable bid) who will take this off my parent's hands (believe me it's heavy) . The axle is in Upstate NY (Ithaca, in fact). The only rule you have to follow is that once you take it, you can't bring it back! Michael Ramage Ramagem@Carleton.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 19:34:45 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 20:26:15 EDT Subject: Peoples MLR Update Status: RO in my previous message i said Ms. Wakeman, Judging from her address is an apple computer employee and should worry more about why the powerbook 540c costs more than twice what I have spent on my big (and slightly gummy at times) rover, than attempting to limit our very limited minature landrover resourses. :-) that of course only is only true as long as Jan does not let TeriAnn decide who gets what rover and if that is the case... the 540c is the most marvelously positioned unit since... well ice was introduced to Australia :-) Spenny From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 21:04:17 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Miniature Land-Rovers To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 24 May 94 18:55:05 MDT In-Reply-To: ; from "Ludovico Magnocavallo" at May 24, 94 7:58 pm Status: RO I have been following this thread, and was waiting for it to sink to a dumb enough level so I can respond. As we are now at the level of trading Rover parts for free toys, I would like to make this offer. 5 Quarts of used motor oil (drained from a Range Rover, obviously worth more) 2 Sets of broken fog lamps (still full of mud) four total. Now thats a deal no one can pass up. Russ Burns When anyone asks me how I could justify spending all that money on a Truck, I respond "I don't, It was a totally stupid, but that one think I am good at.... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 24 20:27:48 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Lucas, Prince of Darkness (was: Minature Rovers & the Peoples...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 May 94 20:05:19 PDT." <9405242005.tn446675@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 94 18:20:04 PDT Status: RO Spenny wrote: > well after spending the last 6 months trying to rid my rover of the beast, > the one whose name should not be spoken; L****S Prince of Darkness > a month of sillyness would be just the thing! Funny you should mention the Prince of Darkness. I saw an article on the on the clari newsgroups about Lucas. (It was clari.tw.aerospace for those of you who get UseNet) Here are some of the highlights from the article. Prince of Darkness struck again (and again ...) -----------begin--text------------------------------------------ Subject: Britain's Lucas denies blame for U.S. warplane failure Copyright: 1994 by Reuters, R Date: Fri, 20 May 94 10:20:34 PDT LONDON, May 20 (Reuter) - British motors and aerospace group Lucas Industries Plc on Friday denied any blame for parts failure affecting the United States Defense Department's F/A-18 ``Hornet'' fighter programme. But a Lucas spokesman said U.S. press reports alleging its AMAD gearboxes were to blame for 167 emergency jet landings in the last 18 months were a ``misrepresentation'' of the facts. Only on Monday, the group paid $12 million in penalties and costs to settle after pleading guilty to falsifying test results over defective missile launchers used in the Gulf War. Lucas does around $200 million of U.S. defence business a year, $75 million direct to the Pentagon, with $20-25 million coming from Lucas Western. The company was not commenting on its guilt or otherwise at present but the statement was: ``an admission that we think the quality and compliance controls were not up to standard,'' the spokesman said. ------------------end--included--text----------------------------------- Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 03:26:40 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Minature Rovers To: 75126.1123@CompuServe.COM (Keith Steele) Date: Wed, 25 May 94 9:18:32 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940524235212_75126.1123_FHD58-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Keith Steele" at May 24, 94 7:52 pm Status: RO > > Well I think this toy Rover thing has gone just about far enough. I > can see that all appeals to humor, charity, decency, humanity, and > fair play have fallen on deaf ears. It is time we settled this like > REAL MEN. > > I will give you Park Place and 1 hotel. Anyone willing to top that? > > Keith Steele > 75126,1123@compuserve.com > > How about swapping them for BMW? On second thoughts,*one* of them for BMW. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 04:20:47 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 05:13:02 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: New member Status: RO Hello Keith >I am new to the list. > >BIO >I own a 72 Series III 88 since new. I am currently living in >Northern Kentucky a few miles south of Cincinnati Ohio. I have >just towed my Rover to Holland Michigan (400) miles to get some >work done by a Rover knowledge shop >(Alan Christian Motors). Cool - you are the only "original owner" of an old one that I know of. I've been bombing around in my '73 88" for about 3 years now. Sigh! The maintenance load has been getting pretty steep lately - looking forward to doing a frameup rebuild soon. > >I have been getting my parts from Atlantic British in NY and >British Pacific CA. Anyone know of any other good Rover parts >suppliers? You'll probably get a lot of Rovers North tips - 802-879-0032 -Vermont They make a big deal about "only genuine part$" if this is important to you this is your place. My favorite is DAP Enterprises in Massachusetts 508-291-1311 7 Kendrick Rd, Wareham Industrial Park, Wareham, MA 02571 They are no frills and you should know what you want when you call. Some genuine land rover parts - some bearmach. DAP isn't as polished as RN but then it's not as yuppie or expensive. Tell Skip Hi (he is the "counterman" and a fisherman - Al Tocci is the boss/owner) >Believe me I am glad to find this list. I was beginning to think >I was one of the last few surviving LROs in the US :-) Yeah they seem to be kinda rare in the middle part of the US. My father lives in Tenn. Sorry, I don't know of any shops, clubs or driving places your way. John John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 04:28:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Driving out against the brake Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 10:22:30 UNDEFINED Status: RO In rear wheel drive cars that are stuck, an old trick is to kid the differential it has grip at both wheels by driving out against the handbrake. Has anyone successfully tried this out with a Landrover against the footbrake? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 07:52:07 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: SIII questions From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Wed, 25 May 94 12:19:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I have a couple of questions to ask to the LR gurus (please be patient...). 1) The side windows of my 1984 88 SIII are leaking. I know this is quite usual, but the channels are worn, and I would like to change them. First problem, I don't understand what a 'door top' is. Is it the complete assembly, with glasses and so on, ready to be fitted? Second, is it better to fit a new door top (assuming it is the complete assembly), to change everything, seals and so on, or just to change the channels? In the Haynes manual, the first operation is to put the 'glazing strip' to the fixed pane of glass. Do I need it? What is a glazing strip? Is it some sort of scotch tape to seal the glass pane? What is it used for usually (I mean, where can I found it, in which shops?). Can I just buy the channels ready to be fitted, or do I need to drill them as shown on the Haynes manual? 2) I want to buy a soft-top for my Station Wagon. I can't understand the difference between a 3/4 and a full lenght hood. Is the 3/4 for pick-up bodies? Do I risk any damage to the hard-top leaving it on the floor? I apologize for the scarce clarity of my questions, I am just beginning to put my hands on my 88......:))) _________________________________________________________ __________________________ |--------------------------| 1984 /____________________________\ Series III || || || 88 || || || Land Rover || || || Station Wagon ||______ ______||______ ______|| -------- |______ / ______ \ ______| 1977 | __ | ___|______|___ | __ | Series III |O / \ ||___|______|___|| / \ O| Lightweight |O \__/ ||___|______|___|| \__/ O| (coming soon) | ||___|______|___|| | | | \__|______|__/ | | |_______|_____\____/_____|_______| |__________________________________| | | | | | | | | ____|____|______________________|____|___________________ ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it _________________________________________________________ --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 08:39:26 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Driving out against the brake To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Wed, 25 May 94 6:30:35 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at May 25, 94 10:22 am Status: RO I have always wondered if there was any good purpose for anitlock brakes, other than allowing people with binary inputs drive in adverse weather. So after reading about traction controll I decided to see if I could use the antilock brakes as a traction control device. I then drove my Rover into my semi pond and proceeded to get it stuck. By applying the brakes, and using the throttle I was able to drive out. The only problem was that the car needs to think it is going faster that 5MPH so you really have to spin the wheels. Russ > In rear wheel drive cars that are stuck, an old trick is to kid the > differential it has grip at both wheels by driving out against the handbrake. > > Has anyone successfully tried this out with a Landrover against the footbrake? > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 08:16:23 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 09:08:38 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Ohh Jan! Status: RO Jan Darling, The toys were every bit as charming as you described! I've made the reservations for Sunday Brunch at the Four Seasons. Ta Ta! Hugs and Kisses! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 08:39:07 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 09:28:19 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Nige's clutch Status: RO Russell writes about clutches, and curiously with the work on Nigel, my problems have disappeared. Nothing is more vexing than a problem that spontaneously cures itself! It seems that about 5% of the time, my clutch simply wouldn't work...particularly annoying when working in tight woodlands in first low. Now all is well - for the time being. (Rule one: never praise your Rover in front of others when it can hear...for it will surely do something to keep you humble!) A few thoughts, especially when working with a newly-machined flywheel: the steel can imperceptably rust even overnight, though in the oil-rich atmosphere of the bell housing, it is protected. When you finally go to engage the clutch several days later...*it doesn't work*! While panic sweeps though you addled brain at the thought of tearing the whole damn thing down again (while mentally reviewing what you have/havn't done), the clutch disk is merely adhered to the flywheel by the invisible surface rust. Two avenues depending upon your courage: One, start it up in gear, progressively increasing at each attempt until it breaks free (with a chilling sound not unlike a shattering lay-shaft). The other choice is to start the Rover in gear...chained to a tree. Enjoy. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 09:09:14 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: New member To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) (John Hong) Date: Wed, 25 May 94 10:00:57 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405250913.FAA02125@zork.tiac.net>; from "John Hong" at May 25, 94 5:13 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO John Hong replied (to Keith ??) > > Hello Keith > > >I am new to the list. > > > >BIO > >I own a 72 Series III 88 since new. I am currently living in > >Northern Kentucky a few miles south of Cincinnati Ohio. I have > >just towed my Rover to Holland Michigan (400) miles to get some > >work done by a Rover knowledge shop > >(Alan Christian Motors). > > Cool - you are the only "original owner" of an old one that I know of. > I've been bombing around in my '73 88" for about 3 years now. Sigh! > The maintenance load has been getting pretty steep lately - looking forward > to doing a frameup rebuild soon. Our family has owned a '67 SIIa (originally softtop) 88 since new. It's now "the farm rig" (aka Rover Roach). It replaced a '60 SII 88 soft top- also owned since new-that got rolled in '67 while towing a load of wood. Pop (aka dadeo) only suffered a bruised forehead in that accident, and cut his way out of the driver's compartment with his handy Swiss Army knife (which he still carries). I suspect there are others on this list with original LRs as well. rd/nige, rover roach, '39 ford 9N, mid-50's Ferguson TO30 (can you relate, folks?) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 09:55:03 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 94 10:22:16 EST From: sim1@"cornell.edu@landrover.cit.cornell.edu".landrover.cit.cornell.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: re: Front axle Status: RO About Michael's offer of the front axle for the 109: I've got a question for the collected wisdom. The 107 series I kit that I have has a badly worn front differential. Would the differential from the 109 axle be the same as in my 107? Like some of the offers for Jan's vehicles, I would be willing to drive all the way to Michael's parent garage to retrieve it if it would fit. Michael, is the differential in good shape? By the way, please do not use the return address on this mailfile for a reply, as tempting as it may seem. I am still trying to get the mailer configured properly to receive mail on this machine. Meanwhile, please use my e-mail address: sim1@cornell.edu As you can see, the domain name of this OS/2 machine is landrover, and my Matchbox 109 "Safari" patrols the top of the monitor. The domanin name of my Mac is rover, and my Corgi Rover 2000TC cruises the top of one of its monitors. Unfortunately, the top of the second monitor on the Mac is an empty desert. Steve Margolis sim1@cornell.edu Ithaca, New York From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 10:35:21 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 94 10:22:16 EST From: sim1@"cornell.edu@landrover.cit.cornell.edu".landrover.cit.cornell.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: re: Front axle Status: RO About Michael's offer of the front axle for the 109: I've got a question for the collected wisdom. The 107 series I kit that I have has a badly worn front differential. Would the differential from the 109 axle be the same as in my 107? Like some of the offers for Jan's vehicles, I would be willing to drive all the way to Michael's parent garage to retrieve it if it would fit. Michael, is the differential in good shape? By the way, please do not use the return address on this mailfile for a reply, as tempting as it may seem. I am still trying to get the mailer configured properly to receive mail on this machine. Meanwhile, please use my e-mail address: sim1@cornell.edu As you can see, the domain name of this OS/2 machine is landrover, and my Matchbox 109 "Safari" patrols the top of the monitor. The domanin name of my Mac is rover, and my Corgi Rover 2000TC cruises the top of one of its monitors. Unfortunately, the top of the second monitor on the Mac is an empty desert. Steve Margolis sim1@cornell.edu Ithaca, New York From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 10:50:55 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: NADA 6 Cyl Frnt Axle To: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Wed, 25 May 94 11:44:24 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01HCQ8IEGF5E8WWQTJ@carleton.edu>; from "RAMAGEM@carleton.edu" at May 24, 94 7:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > My parents are getting annoyed at the Rover bits that naturally > accumulate in the garage of a Rover owner, and since I'm at college, > it's hard for them to deal with. So, the "coffin", as it is fondly named, > has to go. This is a Genuine parts front axle shipping box which holds > a genuine parts 1967 6 cyl front axle (well used, but not seized) > > Michael Ramage > Ramagem@Carleton.edu complete? including stub shafts, diff, casing? swivel pin housings and swivel pins, too? am i getting greedy? my bits manual fails (at a glance, anyway) to mention whether the 6cyl front axle is any different than a 4....so while you are pondering Steve's question..... but surely Steve will get there sooner than I, or the other three or so upstaters on this list. rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 11:51:47 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 94 09:40:55 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: jhilborn@moose.uvm.edu, LRO@apple.com, LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: mini land rovers Status: RO In message Jan Hilborn writes: > snip > second off, i've pretty much decided that there will be no more than > one rover to a customer (unless, of course, i send them all to Teri Ann > and let *her* decide what to do with them... that would take care of > things right smart now wouldn't it...) > snip > ta for now - > jan Jan, You probably shouldn't give them to me to decide. I would probably end up doing one of the following: ( Scale of 1-3 with #1 least likely & #3 most likely) 1. Just keep them & put them on the shelf with the four toy Land Rovers that people have given me over the years (3 are variations of the same pickup, one with a trailer & one with a working tow truck boom). That way no one would accuse me of favoritism. 2. Award them all to the first person who could tell me who issued the Land Rover decal on The Green Rover's windscreen, when & why. 3. Give them all to the person who kindly hosts the annual Land Rover gathering at the Portland All British Field Meet as a way of saying thanks for his efforts to make the Land Rover world a little nicer (He brought out his collection for show & tell last year & they seemed to be really important to him). TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 11:54:48 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 12:47:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: problems with compuserve?? To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Just a quick question. I would like to get LRO mail on Compuserve my ID is 74353,2423. If this is not possible please let me know. Thank you Mark Rothman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 11:58:58 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 94 09:50:47 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Driving out against the brake Status: RO In message Andy Woodward writes: > In rear wheel drive cars that are stuck, an old trick is to kid the > differential it has grip at both wheels by driving out against the handbrake. > > Has anyone successfully tried this out with a Landrover against the > footbrake? > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The LR's manual brake is on the rear of the transfer care providing breaking to both driveshafts & all 4 wheels when 4WD is engaged. The old trick is for cars that have the manual brake activate the rear brake shoes. No Land Rover toys for you on this one ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 13:27:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: head rebuild From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:19:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dan Chayes writes: > I finaly got the head reinstalled in my '74 88 2.25petrol > engine and there is one thing that concerns me just a > tad. The foward end of the rocker arm is dry ( no oil ). > ( Of course there is lots of oil under the car ;-). There > is oil coming from the small copper tube that connects to the > aft end of the head, i assume that that should feed down > the middle of the rocker arm shaft ? Does this group have > any good suggestions before I dismantle the the whole thing again? Did you have the shaft apart? If so, the shaft could be 180 degrees out. Second, make sure that the hole in the two bolts holding the oil tube in are lined up, more or less, correcly for maximum oil flow. Both of these items will result in the effect you describe. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 13:27:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: mini land rovers From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:22:21 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Jan Hilborn writes: > hmmmm, what to do, what to do... > i'm enjoying this silliness heaps and welcome further silliness but i > want to be sure the serious rover folks out there don't get upset with us > for filling up their mail folders with yammering for toys... I have been very quiet and good (probably becasue I am waiting to see what angles the rest of this lot decide to take..) and on the off-change that Robin doesn't actually have one of these toys, I would be a perfect candidate for one. You can just imagine what angst Robin will suffer if he knows that I have a Land Rover that he doesn't (you should see him drool over the Airfix bloodhound missile models that Ted has four of in the original box, originals too, not the recent repro stuff...). Besides, they will be going to a very good home. Who else can provide a good home for these models than someone who is preserving & saving seven 1:1 scale model Land Rovers? Rgds, Dixon. PS. Boardwalk, one hotel, and a get out of jail free card (Good in Canada if you come to the Birthday Party... :-)) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 12:46:32 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 13:25:52 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Original owners Status: RO Another county heard from.... Yes, I've owned my very early Series III since new...it just celebrated it's 22nd birthday and has about 200,000m on the clock. If you know someone in Solihull and can provide the ID number, they can locate the vehicle's "release date" - when the factory released it for sale. Several club members are "first generation" like Russel/Nige, i.e., owned by a close family member. The only other original owner I know of is Andy Goldfine in Duluth, MN. Andy, of the Northwoods Rover Group, once suggested a single-owner club. Any others lurking out there in the ether? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 12:56:44 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 26 May 94 05:17:45 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Series III Questions Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ludovico wrote: >> 1) The side windows of my 1984 88 SIII are leaking. I know this is quite usual, but the channels are worn, and I would like to change them. First problem, I don't understand what a 'door top' is. Is it the complete assembly, with glasses and so on, ready to be fitted? Second, is it better to fit a new door top (assuming it is the complete assembly), to change everything, seals and so on, or just to change the channels? In the Haynes manual, the first operation is to put the 'glazing strip' to the fixed pane of glass. Do I need it? What is a glazing strip? Is it some sort of scotch tape to seal the glass pane? What is it used for usually (I mean, where can I found it, in which shops?). Can I just buy the channels ready to be fitted, or do I need to drill them as shown on the Haynes manual? >> The door top is the metal frame with glass that stops at the galvanized capping/strip on the door. Undo the door trim and you will find two large nuts facing downwards inside the door. Undo these and with what may need to be a good deal of persuasion pry the door top up from the door bottom. If it looks like it will come apart (due to rust) stop and wait until you obtain a new one before removal. If the door top is questionable, replace it. They are available with or without glass. Without is much cheaper and drilling and installing them is no big sweat. Just take your time and do one window at a time so you have a reference. The "glazing strip" is just windshield putty and can be purchased in a strip (in a roll) in most auto parts stores (US at least). Get one that's thicker than you need and stretch the piece until the diameter is to your liking. Yes you do need it. >> 2) I want to buy a soft-top for my Station Wagon. I can't understand the difference between a 3/4 and a full lenght hood. Is the 3/4 for pick-up bodies? >> Yes, full length fits your wagon and 3/4 fits a pick-up. Be careful when ordering colors, in the UK Khaki = US olive green. UK Stone = US sand. I liked the Stone myself (blue 88). >> Do I risk any damage to the hard-top leaving it on the floor? >> Not to the top itself, but if the top-to-box seals are in place, they may get flattened/deformed. Good luck! Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 13:44:36 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: mini land rovers Date: Wed, 25 May 94 11:36:00 PDT Encoding: 24 TEXT Status: RO TeriAnn writes: >3. Give them all to the person who kindly hosts the annual Land Rover >gathering at the Portland All British Field Meet as a way of saying thanks for his >efforts to make the Land Rover world a little nicer (He brought out his collection >for show & tell last year & they seemed to be really important to him). Tony & Linda Starbird host a Land Rover campout and barbecue at their farm, west of Portland, during the Portland All British Field Meet. They are avid LR owners, as is Doug Shipman, another Portland area LR owner helps sponsor/organize this event. For those interested, the Portland All British Field Meet is held over Labor Day weekend (usually the 1st weekend in Sept.) at the Portland International Raceway. In 1994, the Land Rover marquee will be the highlight of the meet; in a tribute to the return of Land Rover to the U.S. I will post more details as they unfold. Rosty john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 14:38:42 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 15:30:09 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: New member Status: RO >You'll probably get a lot of Rovers North tips - 802-879-0032 -Vermont >They make a big deal about "only genuine part$" if this is important to you >this is your place. > >My favorite is DAP Enterprises in Massachusetts 508-291-1311 >7 Kendrick Rd, Wareham Industrial Park, Wareham, MA 02571 > >They are no frills and you should know what you want when you call. >Some genuine land rover parts - some bearmach. DAP isn't as polished as RN >but then it's not as yuppie or expensive. Tell Skip Hi (he is the >"counterman" and a fisherman - Al Tocci is the boss/owner) Although genuine parts are not critical to my existence, i fall into those recommending rovers north. however, i would strongly recommend against purchasing anything but the most cosmetic part from DAP. when i first had my rover, i got a lot of parts from them (maybe $2000), and i ended up replacing most all of them after some serious mishap/failure. their service (both in terms of helping you get the right part, and in terms of dealing with problems) is lacking (to say the least). i also find their prices comparable to RN on most items (although this seems to fluctuate). finally, be advised that even knowing the right part you want (including part #, description, etc) is not always sufficient with DAP. on at least two occasions that i can recall, i ordered specific parts for my ser iii, only to have DAP send a different part. when i returned the part/complained, DAP claimed the part i wanted either didn't exist at all, or was no longer available. in both cases, i was able to get the parts from RN stock (and atlantic british had them in stock as well). -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 15:08:11 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Series III Questions In-Reply-To: Your message of "26 May 94 05:17:45 PST." <199405251749.NAA04654@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 94 12:59:11 PDT Status: RO In message <199405251749.NAA04654@transfer.stratus.com> you write: > > The door top is the metal frame with glass that stops at the galvanized > capping/strip on the door. Undo the door trim and you will find two large > nuts facing downwards inside the door. Undo these and with what may need to > be a good deal of persuasion pry the door top up from the door bottom. If it > > looks like it will come apart (due to rust) stop and wait until you obtain a > new one before removal. If the door top is questionable, replace it. They I really like the fact that the door top is easily removable. I leave the appropriate part of the door trim off and keep a wrench in the dash tray. All through the summer months when it gets a bit warm out, I just remove the two nuts and toss the window in back. I wish all cars has such big "window." This is a great feature when stuck in (insert city here) traffic. Just open the door, pop out the door top and get back in. It certainly will give you a lot more stares than usual. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 17:40:19 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 18:12:56 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Door tops Status: RO Ben Smith writes: >pop out the door top and get back in. It certainly will give you a lot >more stares tha usual. Coming into work at the UPS warehouse last year, Diesel Bob, whose windows tops ahve always been somewhat suspect, had one almost fall out into traffic, necessitating evasive action from vehicles around him. Bungeed back into place, he continued on his way to work. That afternoon, he noticed a pretty young lass in the vehicle parked next to his. Muttering something about "...bad day, lost my keys...." he proceeded to tear off the door top amid a shower of rust and tossed it into the back of his 88 pickup. As he drove off, her mouth was still open in shock! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 19:14:27 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 20:05:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Go figure... Status: RO Jory, I don't mean to turn this into a "is so,is not" exchange but my experience with DAP has been almost the exact opposite of yours. Some people swear by British Atlantic, others swear at them. The same happens with RN and DAP. The course of human interaction has often been marked with miscommunication. It is to this that I would attribute your history with DAP. I was prompted to post about DAP because of your comments in Dixon's vendor listing. So Dixon, I would appreciate your adding my VERY POSTIVE experience with DAP to the vendor listing that you kindly maintain. My first major purchase at DAP was a new overdrive for something like $550 - way less than RN or AB, followed by a carb, springs, frame parts, a starter motor, a gas tank, and a raft of consumables. On the cosmetic front, check out the "Landrovers Only parking" sign for sale at DAP. I look forward to the day I hang some of those babies in my garage. (I live in an apartment and I can only hang one on the wall.) I was down at DAP yesterday and Al said he just got a new customer that heard about DAP on the net. I told Al more and he may be getting on the net! Ta Ta! I'm off to England to watch Steve Denis chase wimmen! Be back on the net and a buttload of mail June 12! I'll try to snag as many Bat Fastard stickers as I can - send me a long SASE and I'll send you one! Details upon my return. John BTW Jory what course are you? I was course II '85. Did you have anything to do with that cop car ending up on the dome? :) What color is your rover? Blue? I might have seen you today! I'm in a red '73 88" with no roof and a Bat Fastard sticker. >>You'll probably get a lot of Rovers North tips - 802-879-0032 -Vermont >>They make a big deal about "only genuine part$" if this is important to you >>this is your place. >> >>My favorite is DAP Enterprises in Massachusetts 508-291-1311 >>7 Kendrick Rd, Wareham Industrial Park, Wareham, MA 02571 >> >>They are no frills and you should know what you want when you call. >>Some genuine land rover parts - some bearmach. DAP isn't as polished as RN >>but then it's not as yuppie or expensive. Tell Skip Hi (he is the >>"counterman" and a fisherman - Al Tocci is the boss/owner) > >Although genuine parts are not critical to my existence, i fall into those >recommending rovers north. > >however, i would strongly recommend against purchasing anything but the >most cosmetic part from DAP. > >when i first had my rover, i got a lot of parts from them (maybe $2000), >and i ended up replacing most all of them after some serious >mishap/failure. their service (both in terms of helping you get the right >part, and in terms of dealing with problems) is lacking (to say the least). > >i also find their prices comparable to RN on most items (although this >seems to fluctuate). > >finally, be advised that even knowing the right part you want (including >part #, description, etc) is not always sufficient with DAP. on at least >two occasions that i can recall, i ordered specific parts for my ser iii, >only to have DAP send a different part. when i returned the >part/complained, DAP claimed the part i wanted either didn't exist at all, >or was no longer available. in both cases, i was able to get the parts from >RN stock (and atlantic british had them in stock as well). > > >-jory John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 20:13:35 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Door tops In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 May 94 18:12:56 PDT." <013.00768944.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 94 18:06:37 PDT Status: RO Sandy Grice writes: > Coming into work at the UPS warehouse last year, Diesel Bob, whose windows > tops ahve always been somewhat suspect, had one almost fall out into > traffic, necessitating evasive action from vehicles around him. Bungeed > back into place, he continued on his way to work. This reminds me of Winter Break 1992-3. My House was having a ski trip to Brekenridge, Colorado. Immediately after the ski trip was my best friend's wedding in South Bend, Indiana (the wedding was Dec 21st). Since I had to be home by Chrismas and I had a friend who's destination was Michigan, I decided against being smart (driving from LA to CO and back and then flying for the other legs of the trip in a normal car) decided to be adventurous (Eric and I took the Rover). Now at this time Colorado decided to be cold and the temperatures across the country were between 1 and 10 Farenheit. All I have is a Smith's heater. So in order to keep warm inside the Rover we needed parka, thermal underwear and mittens. After arriving in Colorado after a 20 hour drive we decided that the Rover needed to get a bit warmer. One of the first things discovered was that in addition to the normal drafts, the doorseals were less from airtight. When ever the wind gusted, or a truck passed, the door tops would flex a little and give us a jet of cold air. So we tied a peice of parachute cord to the knob on the door top that locks the window on each side. We used a bungee cord to put tension on each of these peices of cord. This greatly minimized the draft from the door tops. But it also added a bit of humor bacause we the bunge cord had to be unhooked in order for us to open a door. Needless to say we forgot a number of times and had the door slam back on us. We also decided that while the Smiths Heated got some air really hot, that air never made it as far as our ankles. So I used some computer perf board to fabricate an airscoop which was tied with wire to the air intake. We figured that more warm air was better than almost no hot air. And maybe, just maybe the warmer air would leak out the air leaks and thus keeping the cold drafts out. (Dream on, but it sounded good at the time.) The air scoop did, however, bring the cabin temperature up to a balmy 40 or 45 degrees Farenheit. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 SIII Land Rover 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 21:13:24 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Driving out against the brake To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 11:35:38 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Andy Woodward" at May 25, 94 10:22:30 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 813 Status: RO Andy asks: > In rear wheel drive cars that are stuck, an old trick is to kid the > differential it has grip at both wheels by driving out against the > handbrake > > Has anyone successfully tried this out with a Landrover against the > footbrake? Tried it once in a diagonal bog (L.H.F and R.H.R. spinning) worked a treat, pulled right out then promptly sank all 4 wheels to the axles about 10m further on. :-(. Used second low, lots of throttle, and stomped on the brake. Wouldnt try it again in a hurray, bit of a pain to get the balance right, kept stalling or spinning the wheels to fast. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7426 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 22:38:34 1994 Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 23:30:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: The Holy Pinion Oil seal grail Status: RO Folks! A while back I asked about pinion oil seals and several of you were kind enough to respond to my request. Everyone pretty much agreed as to the correct orientation of the seal - flat facing away from the diff. It turns out the problem on my rover was the "seal retainer" the part that bolts on to the diff housing on old style diffs was too buggered up. The face was uneven and the diameter of the retainer where the seal fitted in was just a bit too big - ie the seal was too loose in the retainer - big enough that putting the seal in the *wrong way* allowed the flat face of the seal to fit VERY NICELY when pressed against the retainer face. Next fun fun joy joy maintenance item may be the infamous clutch pin that was recently discussed on this list and also in the May LRO magazine. Pray for me! The posts I received follow... Thanks All! John Date: Tue, 3 May 94 08:44:08 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" In message <199405022355.TAA24087@zork.tiac.net> John Hong writes: > Okay you rover DIYers! (please respond directly to jhong@haiku.com and I > will consolidate and post) > My rear differential has been throwing gear lube for quite a while now. I > have been trying to correctly fit a new oil seal and neither the haynes or > the landrover manual clearly indicate the orientation of the seal. > The seal is flat on one side and has 2 circumfrential "walls" on the other > side. The cross section looks something like this: > > |_|__ __|_| > > I have tried installing them both ways. > > Which way do you think it should go? Flat side toward the differential or > flat side toward the drive shaft? > > Email to me and I will consolidate and post! Seals ALWAYS face out. The flat side faces the outside world and the seal ends face inward. This should help you when you do your front wheel seals in the future. may I ask why you didn't look at the front diff to see how the seal was installed? Its always nice when you have two of everything to leave one as a reference while you work on the other. IMPORTANT THINGS: 1. The rotating pinion shaft that rides against the inside of the seal should be smooth. polish it up as best you can. If its pited or groved where the seal rides replace it. 2. Put a bit of grease in the inner lip of the seal ^ shaft when fitting the shaft into the seal. You do not want unnecessary wear when shaft first starts to turn within the seal. 3. Be sure to get the pinion nut torqued properly Don't mean to be brisk, it just seemed like the answer to you question was sitting at the other end of your drive train. TeriAnn *************************************************************** Date: Tue, 3 May 94 14:48:55 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" In message <199405032104.RAA02481@zork.tiac.net> John Hong writes: > Hi TeriAnn, > > Thanks for the reply. The 3 reasons why I posted instead of looking at my > front diff... > > 1. The front diff leaks too only not as bad. When I opened up the rear > diff, there was no rubber seal at all just 1 spring coil loop! Interstingly enough the early seals were leather, not rubber. > > 2. The nuts are all buggered up on the front diff and we're talking cold > chisel/hacksaw surgery here. Bad news. Be careful about breaking/ bending the studs. I would try grinding them on oposit sides to try to make 2 parallel sides an open end wrench would fit on > > 3.The Haynes is ambiguous - pg 107 > "9. Except on early Rover axles, smear the outside diameter of the seal > with jointing compound and carefully tap the seal into the pinion housing > with the lipped side facing in towards the axle." That translates to put some of the Blue RTV that comes in a silver tube along the outside lip where it will contact with the housing (to keep oil from leaking around the outside of the seal), use a rubber or plastic mallet and carefully tap it into place being careful not to bend it or get it cocked part way in. The liped side is not the flat side and the axle is inside the diff housing. So its flat side out (your new rule of thumb for installing all seals from now on..liped or flanged side twords the oil you are trying to keep in and the flat, tappable, side facing the outside so you can tap it into place) > > My diff is an early Rover...so > > "11. If working on the early Rover axle, gently warm the seal retainer, > smear the outside of the seal with jointing compound and fit it into the > retainer with the lipped side facing the bolt holes." I think they were talking about a diff outside the axle housing. The wide end is ringed with holes. The only holes in the other direction are on the flange that has already been removed. See your new rule of thumb ;*) > > Golly, the bolt holes on the retainer or the flange? You new rule of thumb works in all cases, front main engine seals, wheel seals, diff seals, transmission/transfer case seals, brake cylinder seals, clutch cylinder seals & more! > > These are my excuses. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. > I'll be machining the seal surface this evening at the hobby shop. Wish me > luck. Careful. Smoot does not meaned turned down to a maller diameter. It maybe means going after it with a 400 grit or finer sand paper. But if you do have a grove or pitting where the seal would rest, purchase a new flange. Good luck. The seal should be a tight fit. Sometimes its easier if you put a block of wood over a seal and tap the wood. In this case you would need a hole in it for the pinion shaft. Just be careful not to get it cocked or to distort it by tapping. TeriAnn Wakeman ***************************************************************** Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 21:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis seal should have ridges toward the pinion.continued leaking caused by the yoke most likley having a groove worn into the sleeve section where the seal rides and/or the pinion bearings are worn...or a clogged breather.....or worn or missing distance piece..this distance piece may be a crush spacer and should be replaced every time..I don't think it is but if all else fails..... steve... ************************************************************** From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 08:02:45 -0700 To: jhong@haiku.com John, If it has a spring, spring goes towards the oil. The lip goes towards the oil. The concave form of the shell usually goes towards the oil. If your flange (the part that attaches to the drive shaft and goes into the oil seal) has a groove in it, it can tear up the new seal in a short while. Good luck, Randy *************************************************************** From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 3 May 94 17:22:08 GMT John, Keep the flat side out towards the driveshaft. If the seal is reversed, when you replace the flange it will tend to turn the seal inside out and if you are able to replace the flange without flipping the seal back, as the pressure builds in the diff, it will tend to blow the lubricant out past the seal. Be sure to check that your axle breather is clean and that you can blow through it. If clogged it will cause the seal to blow oil for sure. Check the portion of the flange that the seal rides against. It should be clean and smooth. If it is scored and you do not want to replace it, polish the surface as best you can with some fine emery cloth. If you have access to a lathe this will go much faster. Bill John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 23:01:56 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 23:55:48 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Go figure... Status: RO >I don't mean to turn this into a "is so,is not" exchange but my experience >with DAP has been almost the exact opposite of yours. Some people swear by >British Atlantic, others swear at them. The same happens with RN and DAP. >The course of human interaction has often been marked with miscommunication. >It is to this that I would attribute your history with DAP. > >I was prompted to post about DAP because of your comments in Dixon's vendor >listing. So Dixon, I would appreciate your adding my VERY POSTIVE >experience with DAP to the vendor listing that you kindly maintain. My >first major purchase at DAP was a new overdrive for something like $550 - >way less than RN or AB, followed by a carb, springs, frame parts, a starter >motor, a gas tank, and a raft of consumables. I'll buy the "your mileage may vary" argument for aspects of DAP service. However, the relentless fashion in which major parts I got from DAP failed seems to be a more serious/objective measure of their worth as a parts source. >BTW Jory what course are you? I was course II '85. Did you have anything >to do with that cop car ending up on the dome? :) What color is your rover? > Blue? I might have seen you today! I'm in a red '73 88" with no roof and >a Bat Fastard sticker. I was got undergrad degrees in courses 4,12, and 21(lit) '91 (although I am now doing mostly 2-like stuff :) My hacking days are behind me... had nothing to do with the car. My rover is kind of dark green (limestone top) '74 ser iii 88" with the spare on the rear door. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 25 23:34:24 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 26 May 94 00:27:24 EDT Subject: Mini Landy's Status: RO Moosepoop... Hey Jan.. Just how long is that Tootsitoy?? about 2 inches?? I've got one that some past owner glued sparkles all over. And you want to part with it.. come on, what's wrong with it...Hmmm?? Hey.. you wouldn't want to trade the Gummy one for a Desert Shield 109 would you?? Adios..........................................Mike Loiodice - (landrover@aol.com) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 03:20:07 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: ownership of toys To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 02:14:41 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4coumc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> from "Robin Craig" at May 24, 94 07:01:26 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2368 Status: RO Robin writes: < I have been out of the circuit fo a day and suddenly there are over 50 < messages on the system..... The Norwegian rubber toy is nice.... < (yes people, I do have loyal friends) .... I strongly feel that you < should keep them yourself.... I think that if you get into it you < might have the fun we have.... When it stops being fun then I'll < stop.... Let these other people get out there and find their own < toys.... < I will still be watching what is going on over the next month or so but < will be contributing little, I have too big a workload at the moment. I hope I'm wrong, but I am probably not alone in detecting therein some annoyance and alienation. So I want to hasten to reassure Robin that all the toy Land Rover silliness was not at his expense. We regard you as the toy and model expert, and while some may not share your enthusiasm, it is not something to belittle. After all, toys are far too important to leave to children. I think it was Steve Denis who questioned (tongue-in-cheek) Jan's dedication if she was prepared to let go of any Rover paraphernalia. I'm sure almost all of us have at least a Matchbox toy or something sitting in a significant place as a token expression of our Rover madness. Myself, I have weakness for anything Rover: I drink out of a Rover mug, I wear a Rover tie to work, I tape Rover movies off the telly, I photocopy 30-year-old Rover adverts from magazines at the library, I have more Rover T-shirts than I do spare parts for my real Rover, I write memos on Rover notepaper, I go into debt to buy Rover books, AND I cannot say no to a Rover toy in a store (even if they are nominally for my son). We were not making fun of you, Robin, nor of toys. We were making fun of ourselves. Stay with us, and understand that sometimes the Internet drives us to outbursts of insanity -- especially on Fridays. "What win I if I gain the thing I seek? A drum, a breath, a froth of fleeting joy: Who buys a minute's mirth to wail a week? Or sells eternity to get a toy?" -- Shakespeare [Rape of Lucrece], who obviously lived before Land Rovers... or maybe not: "All is but toys" [Macbeth] Now then, where is that rubber Norwegian?! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 03:40:43 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Non Smiths Heat To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 26 May 94 9:31:35 BST Status: RO In the May issue of LRO,there is what looks like a very competant replacment heater for S2 & S3.Marketed by RN in the States,and called the "Mount Mansfield" heater.No prices are given.Anyone know how much the kit costs,whether they intend to export,etc? We get cold over here,too. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 03:15:00 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Original owners Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 09:08:38 UNDEFINED Status: RO >by a close family member. The only other original owner I know of is Andy >Goldfine in Duluth, MN. Andy, of the Northwoods Rover Group, once Tiny world!! I have a motorcycle suit made by his company!!! Didnt realise he was 'one of us'....... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 06:00:22 1994 Subject: Re: Original owners To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 10:39:36 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <013.00768026.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 25, 94 01:25:52 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1205 Status: RO MR ALEXANDER P GRICE writes: > > Another county heard from.... > Yes, I've owned my very early Series III since new...it just celebrated > it's 22nd birthday and has about 200,000m on the clock. If you know > someone in Solihull and can provide the ID number, they can locate the > vehicle's "release date" - when the factory released it for sale. With a vehicle of that age it is possible (for a fee of about 15 pounds sterling) to get a "production certificate" from Heritage Trust. If you are interested I have more details and the complete address at home. > Several club members are "first generation" like Russel/Nige, i.e., owned > by a close family member. The only other original owner I know of is Andy > Goldfine in Duluth, MN. Andy, of the Northwoods Rover Group, once > suggested a single-owner club. Any others lurking out there in the ether? -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 08:06:24 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 27 May 94 00:52:28 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Land Rover World Content-Type: Text Status: RO In my recent job move I lost my saved messages along with the details on the new magazine Land Rover World. Could someone please post it again with Phone number and US air shipping? And if anyone has read an issue or two could you let us know what it's like? Now that I'm settled i'd like to give it a try. I hope their delivery record is better than LRO's. Great mag, but paying air shipping and receiving each issue in the third or fourth week of that month (if not the following month) really sucks. In the US, most mags come out in the first or second week of the month prior to the issue date. This would mean 4-6 weeks to ship air. I realize that they drop ship it to a single point in the US and the post office takes it from there, but even the US postal service isn't that slow (usually). If they had surface delivery as an option I would choose it next time. Mabey I'd get it quicker. Project statuses: I replaced the rocker shaft on my rebuilt head last night. No big deal. I did notice a lot of dirty fluid coming out when I flushed it with brake parts cleaner. That was a surprise. The night before last, I replaced the verticle seals in my sliding glass windows on the 109 hardtop (I didn't have them when I did the channels). I first had to undo the front sliding glass lock and slide it out of the way. Next to get the strip and retainer off I used a block against the window and gently tapped it off with a rubber mallet. I cleaned the glass surface first with a razor then with glass cleaner. I found that the rubber should go on the glass first and the retainer goes on last. Silicone spray on the rubber made the retainer go on fairly easily. Soapy water did not. The job went much quicker than I expected. That's all for now. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com Good luck! Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 09:00:13 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Replacement hoods - was Re: Series III Questions To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 08:48:56 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <199405251749.NAA04654@transfer.stratus.com> from "maloney" at May 26, 94 05:17:45 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1418 Status: RO maloney was bold enough to point out... >>> > 2) I want to buy a soft-top for my Station Wagon. I can't understand the >difference between a 3/4 and a full lenght hood. Is the 3/4 for pick-up >bodies? >>> > >Yes, full length fits your wagon and 3/4 fits a pick-up. Be careful when >ordering colors, in the UK Khaki = US olive green. UK Stone = US sand. I >liked the Stone myself (blue 88). > I too am wanting a replacement hood. In LRO, it appears they hover around the L100 - L105 range from UK suppliers. Of course, there is shipping, exchange, etc. But the question is, how do I know if I am getting a good one. Fabric weight, construction, seams are probably important. I could specify when I order I want a specific brand (which one??), an OE equivalent, 20oz fabric, or a multitude of other things. Any advice? It is important to me that it fits right and does not leak. And I think I want fairly heavy canvas. Other considerations since this is my first (hoop set is in the mail.) Apparently, some come with side-lites but others are purely canvas. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 09:16:04 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 09:58:18 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: LRO Magazine Status: RO I note in several E-mails references to the May issue of LRO. That mag is a mystery...as you never know when it will show up. Last year, it was running one month and three weeks late, i.e., May's issue would show up on June 20th (or later). Several of the locals complained to the powers that be...and for a while, all was well. I got four issues in one three week span in January! This year, they have been showing up within the first two weeks of the appropriate month, but now it appears that they are reverting to their old ways. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 09:50:14 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 10:35:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: ownership of toys Cc: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) In-Reply-To: <9405260814.AA11792@diana.cair.du.edu> Status: RO Ohhhh Boy; I couldn't pass this one up. Mister T.F.Mills quoteth "Willie the Bard" (not to be confused with "H.R.H. Prince Willie of Wales" the kid with the urinary problem) T.F. dredges up; >"What win I if I gain the thing I seek? >A drum, a breath, a froth of fleeting joy: >Who buys a minute's mirth to wail a week? >Or sells eternity to get a toy?" > >-- Shakespeare [Rape of Lucrece], who obviously lived before Land >Rovers... or maybe not: "All is but toys" [Macbeth] Some guys will go to any lengths, even poetry, to sway a girls attention. Jan, pay no attention to that 13th century dribble, it just so happens that this so called "Willie the bard" was actualy an illiterate Norse sheepherder. If you want some real poetry, Try this: There was a nondescript MADAME from Dover with a particular penchant for clover She would flutter her eyes At these offroad type guys And "TOY" with them in the back of her ROVER! Pretty good Huh? Let's see you top that one T.F. Jon Humphrey "President of the Western Pennsylvania Poetry Consortium" And seeker of Truth. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 10:23:20 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: LRO Magazine To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 26 May 94 16:11:18 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00771698.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 26, 94 9:58 am Status: RO I got April's issue (labelled May,hence confusion?)on time.However Mays issue (labelled June) has not yet arrived,although it was due on the 19th of this month.And last time I looked out of the window this *was* England.Judging by that performance you dont stand an earthly of getting it this side of Christmas:-) Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 10:50:47 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 07:47:55 -0800 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: land rover for sale Status: RO Spotted this ad in the sacramento bee this morning, Thur.,Feb 26. Land Rover '71 series IIA, 69K orig miles, $6000 phone 916-583-2103. No other info. The 583 prefix is not near me but is most likely closer to me than anyone else who will read this. From what I can gather, this is a high price but after all, everything costs more in california. I saw an ad in the san francisco chronicle recently for a series III 88 for $7500. Meanwhile, the only running rover in Davis was spotted (by my wife) behind a tow truck on Tuesday morning. Cheers John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me 916 752 8520 University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu Davis, CA or leave me alone, your choice. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 10:41:20 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 27 May 94 03:25:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Replacement Hoods Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray wrote: >> I too am wanting a replacement hood. In LRO, it appears they hover around the L100 - L105 range from UK suppliers. Of course, there is shipping, exchange, etc. But the question is, how do I know if I am getting a good one. Fabric weight, construction, seams are probably important. I could specify when I order I want a specific brand (which one??), an OE equivalent, 20oz fabric, or a multitude of other things. Any advice? It is important to me that it fits right and does not leak. And I think I want fairly heavy canvas. Other considerations since this is my first (hoop set is in the mail.) Apparently, some come with side-lites but others are purely canvas. >> Ray, I bought my Stone canvas top with rear and side windows from ABP. It seems to be of good quality (heavy canvas) and I'm really happy with it. I ran into a fellow at the last RN rally with a 109 regular with full length soft top he ordered from Just Hoods in LRO. The material, construction, and hardware were exactly the same for a lot less than what I paid. You may want to give them a try. I heard one story about a canvas top from ABP shrinking dramatically. I spoke to Mark in parts at ABP and he said that any canvas product will shrink when wet (I've since heard this opinion from other people) and that I should NEVER leave my canvas top untied when it is wet. I followed his instructions and experienced no shrinkage for about a year. Then, on a trip up to Bar Harbor Maine, my Rover was burgled and the top was left untied overnight - in the pouring rain. Yup it shrank - about 1 1/2" on the back. It still overhung the tailgate by about an inch but this really pissed me off. Not that the top was at fault. Last summer some other folks suggested that if I want to stretch it all the way back again, to hose the top thoroughly, soaking it, then pull on it as hard as possible and tie it down and let it dry out. I haven't tried this yet because it still fits pretty good, but I may one day just for kicks. Good luck! Bill maloney@wings.att.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 10:41:20 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 27 May 94 03:25:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Replacement Hoods Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray wrote: >> I too am wanting a replacement hood. In LRO, it appears they hover around the L100 - L105 range from UK suppliers. Of course, there is shipping, exchange, etc. But the question is, how do I know if I am getting a good one. Fabric weight, construction, seams are probably important. I could specify when I order I want a specific brand (which one??), an OE equivalent, 20oz fabric, or a multitude of other things. Any advice? It is important to me that it fits right and does not leak. And I think I want fairly heavy canvas. Other considerations since this is my first (hoop set is in the mail.) Apparently, some come with side-lites but others are purely canvas. >> Ray, I bought my Stone canvas top with rear and side windows from ABP. It seems to be of good quality (heavy canvas) and I'm really happy with it. I ran into a fellow at the last RN rally with a 109 regular with full length soft top he ordered from Just Hoods in LRO. The material, construction, and hardware were exactly the same for a lot less than what I paid. You may want to give them a try. I heard one story about a canvas top from ABP shrinking dramatically. I spoke to Mark in parts at ABP and he said that any canvas product will shrink when wet (I've since heard this opinion from other people) and that I should NEVER leave my canvas top untied when it is wet. I followed his instructions and experienced no shrinkage for about a year. Then, on a trip up to Bar Harbor Maine, my Rover was burgled and the top was left untied overnight - in the pouring rain. Yup it shrank - about 1 1/2" on the back. It still overhung the tailgate by about an inch but this really pissed me off. Not that the top was at fault. Last summer some other folks suggested that if I want to stretch it all the way back again, to hose the top thoroughly, soaking it, then pull on it as hard as possible and tie it down and let it dry out. I haven't tried this yet because it still fits pretty good, but I may one day just for kicks. Good luck! Bill maloney@wings.att.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 12:50:14 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 10:28:57 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com, rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk Subject: Re: Original owners Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 655 Status: RO > With a vehicle of that age it is possible (for a fee of about 15 > pounds sterling) to get a "production certificate" from Heritage Trust. > If you are interested I have more details and the complete address at > home. > > > -- > _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 > ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 > /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park > / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk > Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj Could you put this info out to the group? Please. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 11:23:30 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 12:16:50 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Non Smiths Heat Status: RO >In the May issue of LRO,there is what looks like a very competant >replacment heater for S2 & S3.Marketed by RN in the States,and >called the "Mount Mansfield" heater.No prices are given.Anyone >know how much the kit costs,whether they intend to export,etc? >We get cold over here,too. These RN kits cost between US$475-US$600. I have one and even though the cost was pretty high, it was the best money I ever threw at the rover (I absolutely hate being cold... probably a good thing I'll be moving to California later this summer) I remember a time about 4 years ago when I was driving from Boston to Rochester, New York for Christmas. It was around 0 degrees F the whole drive... I had my old wimpy heater (still in the basement) and a lot of leaks. It was so cold, I ended up driving in this Swedish commando sleeping bag. It's like a normal sleeping bag, but has a hood and arm holes. It also has a zipper at the knees so you can stick your feet out, but it was too cold for that, so I just drove through the rubberized bag. Boston to Rochester is mostly just a straight (7 hour) run on interstate 90, so there's not much shifting... but it was still I bit of a challenge. I was also quite a sight at gas stations! I was almost nostalgic when I went to my family's home this Christmas (after completing the frame-up rebuild). Not only could I hear myself think, but I had to keep the heater fan on low in order to keep from baking ;) One recommendation to accompany the Mansfield heater, is to fit a larger ID hose and valve (I used a GM valve, mounted on the firewall) so that the coolant flow can match the higher heat dissipation rate of the increased heater element surface area. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 12:12:32 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: The Roving Poet To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 11:04:28 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at May 26, 94 10:35:27 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 691 Status: RO Jon Humphrey, "President of the Western Pa Poetry Consortium" and seeker of Truth (??!) writeth: < There was a nondescript MADAME from Dover < with a particular penchant for clover < She would flutter her eyes < At these offroad type guys < And "TOY" with them in the back of her ROVER! Undaunted by this shameless toying with a girl's affections, T.F. respondeth: There WAS a stinky willie named Humphrey Who had quite a few bats in his belfry. Saith the poet, "Move over, You don't get a Rover!" Only nuts like T.F. gets 'em for free. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 13:14:47 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 94 11:04:22 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: john@dspmail.Data-IO.COM, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: mini land rovers Status: RO In message <2DE39A4E@dspmail.data-io.com> "Rostykus, John" writes: > > TeriAnn writes: > > >3. Give them all to the person who kindly hosts the annual Land Rover > >gathering at the Portland All British Field Meet as a way of saying thanks > for his > >efforts to make the Land Rover world a little nicer (He brought out his > collection > >for show & tell last year & they seemed to be really important to him). > > Tony & Linda Starbird host a Land Rover campout and barbecue at their > farm, west of Portland, during the Portland All British Field Meet. They > are > avid LR owners, as is Doug Shipman, another Portland area LR owner helps > sponsor/organize this event. For those interested, the Portland All British > Field Meet is held over Labor Day weekend (usually the 1st weekend in > Sept.) at the Portland International Raceway. In 1994, the Land Rover > marquee > will be the highlight of the meet; in a tribute to the return of Land Rover > to the > U.S. I will post more details as they unfold. > > Rosty > john@data-io.com Just when I think I can get the TR3 fully restored and back on the road in time for Portland, they feature Land Rovers for the first time... Wouldn't you just know it. Well I guess I'll just have to load the dog up & take the Green Rover back to Portland again this year. If you are out of the Portland area, and can make the event, try to do so with your Land Rover. Tony, Linda, Doug & many others go way out of their way to make you feel welcome. Its largely because of them that the Portland meet has become my favorate of the year (Even if it means a couple of days driving each way). If you can make it you will not regret it! TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 15:43:42 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 16:34:22 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Driving out against the brake Status: RO There are other times when the seemingly incongruous application of brake/accelerator can save your bacon. Here's a trick that I learned at the Ford/Michelin ice driving school several years ago. (Too late for this season, but maybe the folks down under can use it.) On off-camber, downhill curves, if you apply the brakes, the nose will dive, the rear end will slide and over you go. Applying brakes AND gas simultaneously prevents the transfer of weight to the front, and you can actually stop on an icy curve as if on railroad tracks. As weird as it sounds, it works! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 16:16:23 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 16:57:16 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Hoods Status: RO Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks does some really fine work...he uses a pre-shrunk boat canvas and the tops fit tight but don't shrink. More expensive that some other sources but worth a shot. Give him a ring at 508-394-2680. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 21:21:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: NADA 6 Cyl Frnt Axle From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 09:35:26 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > my bits manual fails (at a glance, anyway) to mention whether the 6cyl > front axle is any different than a 4....so while you are pondering Steve's > question..... My parts catalogue gives seperate part numbers for the 6-cylinder and 4-cylinder 88 and 109 axles. Don't know what the exact difference is though. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 21:22:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 13:00:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mr Mills, Thank you for your comments, appreciated. To The rest of you, I can reply to my own mail, I notice some of you answer on my behalf. To Mike Rooth, Can you let us know when LRO come out and if there is anything of siginificance in the next issue Pls. Thanks Robin Craig OTTAWA ONTARIO. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 26 21:22:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover World From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 15:57:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > In my recent job move I lost my saved messages along with the details on the > new magazine Land Rover World. Could someone please post it again with Phone > number and US air shipping? And if anyone has read an issue or two could you > let us know what it's like? Now that I'm settled i'd like to give it a > try. Different from LRO, in a way not as professionally done. They split articles between ads, across sections of the issue which tends to get a wee bit annoying. The June issue has an article about a chap rebuilding Land Rovers in the US East coast, and like LRO the writer is drooling over a NADA (big deal...), an article on pulling the gearbox, one on model Land Rovers etc. Not bad overall. Land Rover World Subscription Department Hainault Road, Little Heath Romford, Essex, RM6 5NP fax 081-599-5965 In UK Pounds: 19.20 (UK & BFPO), 28.80 (Overseas surface) 34.40 (Europe & Eire airmail) 47.20 (Rest of world) > I hope their delivery record is better than LRO's. My May LRO arrived on Tuesday. My June LRW arrived yesterday. So much for LRO blaming Communist (er, Canada) Post for all of their problems... Rgds, Dixon PS So is the distance/travel time too great for the B-day Party? :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 00:48:29 1994 Date: Thu, 26 May 94 22:41:27 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Got to use my Hand Crank today + Smog stuff Status: RO While at the smog station for the second time with my Series III, the mechanic could not find the timming mark on the pully. He tried getting his helper to hit the ignition several times to no avail. Then I took out the hand crank and gave it to his helper. The helper turned the engine till I found the mark. The first time I went in to have it smoged the hydrocarbons was about 50ppm too high and the CO was low (.51%). My friend susgested the float might need adjusting because of the richness. So I went out and got a rochestor rebuild kit and had it done in about an hour. The results were hydrocarbons 166ppm (max 350) and CO .61%. (max 6.5). I assume that these values are ok since it did pass. Vance Chin Running and Smoged 73 Series III 88" P.S. I also had a second aborted attempt that went like this: me > I need to have a smog check done mech > what kind of car is it? me > A Land Rover Truck. mech > I don't do those.. me > It's in your book. mech > Is it Toyota? me > :-( From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 01:24:26 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Driving out against the brake Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 07:18:37 UNDEFINED Status: RO >season, but maybe the folks down under can use it.) On off-camber, >downhill curves, if you apply the brakes, the nose will dive, the rear end >will slide and over you go. Applying brakes AND gas simultaneously >prevents the transfer of weight to the front, and you can actually stop on >an icy curve as if on railroad tracks. As weird as it sounds, it works! This is not so weird. It is another example of a cornering technique on motorbikes where gentle braking in an on-the-limit turn can be acheived by playing teh rear brake off against the throttle. It also works by preventing this forward suspension loading washing out the front wheel. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 03:05:25 1994 Date: Fri, 27 May 94 00:57:26 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sealing floor boards Status: RO Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet metal due to it being a bit thick. Vance Chin Series III 88 with easy to remove floorboards From ccray Fri May 27 08:30:24 1994 Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 08:30:24 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1307 Status: RO Vance Chin was bold enough to point out... > > > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >metal due to it being a bit thick. > I picked up some 3-M caulking strips at an auto body supply house They are about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 12 inches long. There is about 50 or so in a box. Some sort of auto body putty. They stick good enough to allow you to put them into position and then put the floorboards (in my case, also the seat base) into position. I used a new attachment kit from RN for the floorboards. After tightening, I went back with a razor knife and cut off the excess. Its so tight now that the coffee or beer doesn't leak thru -- it just sets there and dries after a day or so. These 3-M strips are available in grey and black -- I used grey cause that looked close to the original dum-dum color. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 08:17:56 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Mansfield Heater To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 27 May 94 14:09:15 BST Status: RO Maany thanks to those who replied to my query on the RN Mansfield heater.I think my conclusion is I would have to be *very* cold before I spent that sort of money,effective though the unit no doubt is.Pity. TThanks again, Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 08:40:34 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 08:30:24 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1306 Status: RO Vance Chin was bold enough to point out... > > > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >metal due to it being a bit thick. > I picked up some 3-M caulking strips at an auto body supply house They are about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 12 inches long. There is about 50 or so in a box. Some sort of auto body putty. They stick good enough to allow you to put them into position and then put the floorboards (in my case, also the seat base) into position. I used a new attachment kit from RN for the floorboards. After tightening, I went back with a razor knife and cut off the excess. Its so tight now that the coffee or beer doesn't leak thru -- it just sets there and dries after a day or so. These 3-M strips are available in grey and black -- I used grey cause that looked close to the original dum-dum color. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 09:56:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 09:58:19 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Warning! Dis-information underway. That should be the title for alot of what is turning up in the motoring press on the subject of the "New Range Rover". That is the opinion I get when speaking to the gurus in the UK> It is quite possible that the factory are themselves putting out material to get "journo" types to bite on to draw away their attention from a more sensitive project such as the mini Defender, oh , you have nt heard about that? See what I mean! If you can find it the Canadian International edition of the Express has a column insprired by just such bogus material I firmly beleive. The author David Williams says this about the Range Rover:- "In the autumn Land Rover will announce the new off-road star code-named Pegasus, which will cost even more( Than the current RR ) and bring a touch of refinement to the market. Then the unthinkable will happen: the old Range Rover will continue in production, but with a new name, the famous badge being transfereed to the young pretender. Estimated cost? Top of the range versions could cost as much as GBP50,000 " See how somehting like that would get people going eh?! in other news today, received a flyer form Myles Murphy on the down east rally saying that the US Army will be bring an SOV up for the event. Interesting. Is there anyone going to the event who would like to take some pictures ofr me pls? Slide film up front and some enticements perhaps!!! Regards Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:24:54 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Got to use my Hand Crank today + Smog stuff Date: 27 May 1994 15:16:16 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9405270541.AA14243@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu>, Vance Chin wrote: > >While at the smog station for the second time with my Series III, the >mechanic could not find the timming mark on the pully. He tried >getting his helper to hit the ignition several times to no avail. Then >I took out the hand crank and gave it to his helper. The helper >turned the engine till I found the mark. > The first time I went in to have it smoged the hydrocarbons >was about 50ppm too high and the CO was low (.51%). My friend >susgested the float might need adjusting because of the richness. >So I went out and got a rochestor rebuild kit and had it done >in about an hour. The results were hydrocarbons 166ppm (max 350) and >CO .61%. (max 6.5). I assume that these values are ok since it >did pass. > > >Vance Chin Running and Smoged 73 Series III 88" > I have always thought it good luck that Series III's pass CA smog check, as they came with EGR valves and almost none still have them! Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:31:29 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: NADA 6 Cyl Frnt Axle Date: 27 May 1994 15:22:05 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article , dixon kenner wrote: >"Russell G. Dushin" writes: > >> my bits manual fails (at a glance, anyway) to mention whether the 6cyl >> front axle is any different than a 4....so while you are pondering Steve's >> question..... > > My parts catalogue gives seperate part numbers for the 6-cylinder > and 4-cylinder 88 and 109 axles. Don't know what the exact > difference is though. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > >-- >dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada The front axle on a 6 cyl will have 11" brakes like the 4 cyl, but the shoes (and drums) will be wider. All the rest should be the same. A footnote: beware the rear NADA 6 cyl rear axle. The diff. supplied was a limited slip unit that could last from around the block to 10 years. I don't think spare parts are supported. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:32:52 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards Date: 27 May 1994 15:24:56 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9405270757.AA14361@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu>, Vance Chin wrote: > > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >metal due to it being a bit thick. > >Vance Chin Series III 88 with easy to remove floorboards > Try strip caulk from NAPA Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:38:35 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards (fwd) Date: 27 May 1994 15:28:49 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9405271330.AA16017@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>, wrote: >Vance Chin was bold enough to point out... >> >> >> Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >>floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >>causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >>metal due to it being a bit thick. >> >I picked up some 3-M caulking strips at an auto body supply house >They are about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 12 inches long. >There is about 50 or so in a box. >Some sort of auto body putty. They stick good enough to allow you >to put them into position and then put the floorboards (in my case, >also the seat base) into position. I used a new attachment kit >from RN for the floorboards. After tightening, I went back with >a razor knife and cut off the excess. Its so tight now that >the coffee or beer doesn't leak thru -- it just sets there and >dries after a day or so. >These 3-M strips are available in grey and black -- I used grey >cause that looked close to the original dum-dum color. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > >- 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) >- 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) >- 80 MGB - xx >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Same stuff as the NAPA strip caulk, whereas the NAPA strips come as two strips in a long roll. Grey. I've used both with good results. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:37:59 1994 Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 11:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: cancel compuserve request To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Please cancel my request to be put on compuserve mail Thanks Mark Rothman compuserve id 74353,2423 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:49:22 1994 Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 11:32:07 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Sealing floor boards Status: RO Vance Chin writes: >Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for floor boards? The best stuff is a 3M product called "Strip-Caulk". It comes packaged on release paper in a box with, a ten or so 1/4 X 12" strips on each sheet, and a half dozen sheets to the box. Available in black, grey and white, it is paintable but never hardens. Very easy to apply, but more importantly, *easy to remove.* Great for seat bases, floor boards, sliding window rain catchers, etc. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 10:47:30 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 11:34:25 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards Status: RO > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >metal due to it being a bit thick. > >Vance Chin Series III 88 with easy to remove floorboards I used .5" wide, .25" thick closed cell, adhesive backed foam from my local rubber supply place (turns out it is what they use on newer rovers as well). Especially nice, since it is more reuseable than other methods. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 11:04:27 1994 Date: Fri, 27 May 94 08:55:22 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards Status: RO In message <9405270757.AA14361@nikon.ssl.berkeley.edu> Vance Chin writes: > > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for > floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty > causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet > metal due to it being a bit thick. > > Vance Chin Series III 88 with easy to remove floorboards > Sealing floorboards? but but but.... If you seal the floorboards the water will have a harder time getting out. The Green Rover's floors just sit in place. They are not even bolted down (There is no place they can go). It is a hold over from my leaky clutch cylinder days when I could find myself needing to bleed the clutch to get home. The factory used a clay like subsatnce for sealing. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 11:26:27 1994 Date: Fri, 27 May 94 12:17:43 EDT From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" To: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards Status: RO >> Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for >> floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty >> causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet >> metal due to it being a bit thick. > >Sealing floorboards? but but but.... If you seal the floorboards the water will >have a harder time getting out. The Green Rover's floors just sit in place. >They are not even bolted down (There is no place they can go). It is a hold >over from my leaky clutch cylinder days when I could find myself needing to >bleed the clutch to get home. I'll go along with TeriAnn on this one. Mine came with a similar putty job from a P*O (i.e. PO, PPO, etc.) and was an absolute bastard to pry and clean up the first time I needed to gain access. I do use the screws and bolts but next time I work on that area, those bolt-and-loose-nut combos on the outside are going for good. You'll never keep the water out so allow it to escape once it's in. Proof by negative example: the boot on the high tension lead on the coil. This puppy tries to keep water out but only manages to collect and hold it causing stalls. (This was the cause of my 'unusual' stall of a long ago message...) monty From ccray Fri May 27 14:36:13 1994 Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 14:36:13 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at May 27, 94 11:51:42 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 656 Status: RO I too ran with the floorboards loose for quite a while. When I bolted them down (yes, I caulked them) it reduced the road noise by quite a level. Of course, Lulu has no bulkhead insulation or floor mats -- only bare metal. This is not to say that it is quiet now, just a lower level of rattling and engine/tx noise. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 12:14:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sealing floor boards From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 11:51:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Vance Chin writes: > Anybody have any good sugestions on sealing methodes for > floor boards? The previous owner went overboard with putty > causing it to leak out and collet dust plus bend the sheet > metal due to it being a bit thick. This will be a quality rebuild then? I, and a great many others up here, do not use any sealing compound. Just bolt the floor pan down. The seal isn't that bad, and it lets the water out. Sealing the floors implies that your pet will not have any problems with the gearbox or clutch. The better, and tighter, you put those floors down, the more likely that you will have to take them up again in the near future. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 14:44:03 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sealing floor boards To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 14:36:13 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at May 27, 94 11:51:42 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 655 Status: RO I too ran with the floorboards loose for quite a while. When I bolted them down (yes, I caulked them) it reduced the road noise by quite a level. Of course, Lulu has no bulkhead insulation or floor mats -- only bare metal. This is not to say that it is quiet now, just a lower level of rattling and engine/tx noise. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 15:56:50 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 15:48:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Automatic Drip To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello all - I thought I'd share something I noticed about At Arabasi, a 1971 Series IIa, yesterday, and something that we are all familiar with. I didn't know that Land Rover had diversified to such an extent until I went shopping for a coffee maker. In K-Mart I noticed the NEWEST land rover model among the Cappucinio makers - It's billed as an *automatic drip*... I know there is at least one member whose Rover doesn't leak oil, and that model should surely go to the Motor Heritage Trust as the Rarest Rover of them all. Mine, however, is in competition with Roy Caldwell's ("What class III oil leak, Sir"), for the Environmental Protection Service's Superfund cleanup award. I recently replaced the oil pump (after 23 years it was a *bit* tired), and immediately jump to 40 (!!) psi. You can only imagine the staggering effect this had on the local oil stocks, which I depleted almost overnight (not to speak of what may have happened on Wall Street). Now, If I drive slowly enough, I can almost write my name on the pavement (You can only guess how big those letters are). But what happened yesterday was truely extraordinary. I always look under the car when I park, to make sure I'm still well lubricated (we all know that when the rover stops dripping, it's time for a top-up), and I noticed some very healthy leaks, mostly related to my 55 hp. 2.25 L chassis lubricator. But there was one new leak, near the back, which baffled me for a moment. In fact, this leak was so far back, I thought maybe another rover had parked before me. But as I watched the puddle grow, the TRUTH, as baffling as it always is, had to be recond (sp?) with... My MudFlaps were leaking oil. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 20:03:09 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR adverts on TV To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 18:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 609 Status: RO For the North American audience: Land Rover is now one of the sponsors of the recycled '70s program "In Seach of..." on the A&E cable channel. Good place to look for Defender and Discovery ads. Also on the same channel, there used to be --perhaps still are-- Range Rover ads on the 60s "Avengers" reruns. (There may be a lot more, but I don't watch much.) Rover advertising clearly is not in a class with Coke and Pepsi, but they are fun to see nonetheless. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 21:13:27 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Automatic Drip To: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Fri, 27 May 94 19:07:28 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01HCU832TORM8WXIEM@carleton.edu>; from "RAMAGEM@carleton.edu" at May 27, 94 3:48 pm Status: RO At least rover drip on the ground, my low life trooper drips trans oil on my shoes. It seems the seal between the trans, and the transfer case is shot, and the oil overfills the transfer case and then is wicked up the speedo cable. russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 27 21:02:52 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: LR adverts on TV To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 19:57:26 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <9405280056.AA10359@diana.cair.du.edu> from "T.F. Mills" at May 27, 94 06:56:06 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 345 Status: RO < Land Rover is now one of the sponsors of the recycled '70s program "In < Seach of..." er, no, I wasn't trying out Gaelic, or even Klingon. Make that "In Search of..." hosted by Leonard Nimoy. T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 28 10:51:47 1994 Date: Sat, 28 May 94 09:41:37 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: RE: Automatic Drip Status: RO >From - Ramage I know there is at least one member whose Rover doesn't leak oil, and that model should surely go to the Motor Heritage Trust as the Rarest Rover of them all. Mine, however, is in competition with Roy Caldwell's ("What class III oil leak, Sir"), for the Environmental Protection Service's Superfund cleanup award. On behalf of Coyote Sister, Wicked Wanda and the 69, I accept the nomination for the EPA Superfund cleanup award. But they will have to pursue my Rovers with great vigor. And the EPA has been known to be pretty lazy. I must, in all humility, bow to the great skill and elan that Mr. Ramage displays with his ability to write his name by Rover. If you need a large area to work on, I beleive the new Denver airport is available for practice. T. F. may be able to verify that for us. Seems they are using it for everything but to land airplanes on. Regarding the toy Rovers: Jan my wooden Rover has just been sold to Gumby. He took possesion last night and the title transfer will be complete in the next week. He looks very keen waving out the driver side window. I was not able to ask Gumby if he is going to let Pokey ride in the front or back. We shall see! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Stay Tuned for the Adventures of Gumby and Pokey as they tour the world in their new Rover. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 28 12:45:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 12:01:15 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Reading form thre flyer that I have to hand that Myles Murphy just sent me I have the following news:- DOWNEST VI MID- COATS MAINE JULY 2ND, 3RD, 4TH, 1994 For further info contact Po Box 288, Lincolnville Beach, Maine, 04849 USA or phone evenings 207 789 5303. I am not going to reproduce the whole flyer right now cos I ddont have the time. Thanks Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 28 12:02:01 1994 Date: Sat, 28 May 1994 12:54:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: Crystal Vision for Rovers To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have recently become involved with a company called Quorum. One of the products that we have is called Crystal Vision. This product is a special polymer that forms a durable transparent bond with your windscreen. The purpose for this is to reduce dirt and grime build-up(we all know how mud can build up on A ROVER). Crystal Vision was originally developed in England for use on marine vessels annd has proven itself under the harshest environmental conditions. After independent verification by five major UK testing laboratories, the Crystal Vision formula was awarded the prestigious Prince of Wales Award for INDUSTRIAL Innovation and Production. I have applied the product to my SER III '88 and have been pleased with the results. Anyone interested in the product please call me. Incidentially the cost is $23(US) includes tax and shipping. Quorum is also an opportunity for someone who is looking to generate some additional income. The company specializes in personal, home and auto security products. They are also about to announce some major new products in the health and safety field. Thank you, Mark Rothman ph 908-8745686 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 08:27:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Didn't go off to Otter Lake... :-( From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 00:13:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > > box) managed to discover that I got to it first. (George's 109 > > will not go into high range, though adjustment on the high-low > > lever has not been checked yet...). > > If the high-low lever was removed and replaced just before the problem occure > it is probably bolted to the wrong side of its mounting location. I did this > once. It looked right but I could only get it into low & neutral. You got it... George had it on wrong. It now has high range, but will not go into 4wd in high range. We noticed that George has put on a few extra spacers in there, but Ted didn't have time to pull them out and see if this solved this problem. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 02:06:52 1994 Date: Sun, 29 May 94 23:57:37 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Floorboards, leaking oil, and more Status: RO Thanks for all the sugestions on floorboards. I already took Ray's idea and bought the R.N. hardware kit (I even got to correct them on kit count). Jory's idea seemed the best for now, I bought some 1" x 3/16" closed cell foam from a rubber and gasket supply house that was right around the block. I will put the foam on for now, but not screw down the flat boards till later. While looking at the transmission with the floor boards off I found oil leaking from the selector shaft springs, the 1st/ 2nd selector shaft, and the front of the output housing. I guess thats what I get for thinking about buttening up the floorboards. The Selector shafts springs are where easy, I ran back to the supply house around the corner and got thick wall rubber tubbing. I just cut a two short pieces and placed them over the springs. I sealed the front output shaft housing and added a new o-ring to the transfer selector. The 1st/2nd selector shaft was bad news. I had replaced all the seals when I rebuilt the rebuilt the transmission, but I had used one seal from an aftermarket supplier and the rest origanal. Guess which seal failed? To make amends for such a deed I had to think of a clever way to change it without taking the whole top of the transmission apart. The fix was to go back to the supply shop yet again and get two o-rings. The two o-rings were then cut and glued back together around the shaft using zap (a super glue). It has not leaked yet and was cheap except for the time. Now if I could only find the leak from the engine I could truly have one of those mythical rovers. Vance Chin 73 Series III with a few less oil leaks From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 05:13:04 1994 To: LRO@STRATUS.COM Subject: Series III questions From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 30 May 94 11:51:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO Thanks to all the people that gave me suggestions about my door tops. I've disassembled one yesterday, and it is a very easy operation, just a 10-15 minutes work including channels and glasses. My door tops are in quite good condition, I just have to change the channels. I've noticed that what should be the glazing strip is a gummy black thing, not a kind of scotch adhesive tape, as I thought it was. It appears also in good condition (I don't know what it looks like when new). My second question was about the hardtop. I want to take it off and put a soft top instead. I don't have a Safari door, but due to italian tax regulations, I have only the front seats and a tailgate (otherwise I'll have to pay 1000$ a year in taxes....), so the operation should be quite simple. But what will happen to my hardtop? How can I store it? Mike Rooth tells me that I will have great difficulty getting it to seal again. What should I do? Thank you Ludovico --- * UniQWK v3.0 * The Windows Mail Reader From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 10:24:25 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 30 May 94 10:16:27 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: slave cylinder question Status: RO hey there landy owners of the world ive got a simple question for you specialists out there. i need to know the bore size of the salve cylinder for my 69 series iia swb rover. it seems to me that it may be the possible reason why im getting into some trouble shifting into reverse 1st and 2nd. any other suggestions for problem areas relating to this would be much appreciated. on another note at the vancouver all british field meet i had the opportunity to pick up a intresting manual of intrest to all land rover owners. it was an original rover parts manual with complete blow up pictures for each and every part including factory part numbers this is a real find and for anyone needing cross reference with part numbers i would be happy to help. with respects to models last weekend i saw a landy model made by a company by the name of "britians" . the model was about 5 inchs in length and also came with little soldiers and a huge cannon that was trailered from behind. does anyone know if this type of die cast model is a collectable and if so would 30.00 be a reasonable price to pay? the sales guy was saying the thing was made in 1980 and is no longer in production although it had poor details in comparison to the dinky. while i was there i had bought a dinky series i brand new in the box for 12 ? great buy that was. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 20:32:21 1994 X-Msmail-Message-Id: 48472DD0 X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 48472DD0 From: Edward Balassanian To: lro-request@stratus.com Date: Mon, 30 May 94 18:22:15 TZ Subject: the defender 90 Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Please add me to this alias..... and now for something completely different: ---------------------------------------------------- I am currently looking at purchasing a defender 90, and was hoping to get as much info as possible from any owners out there. I am specifically interested in the following information: - reliablity of the engine/transmission. - reliablity of the suspension... is it as durable as the salesman leads me to believe. - softtop performance in bad weather. - comfort level when weather is bad (i.e. rain or snow). - craftsmanship of interior (will upholstery start to fall apart after 2 years...) - what accessories have should I get... - anything else you might want to add. if you have any insight to add, I'd love to hear from you. thanks, Edward Balassanian From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 14:03:51 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 14:58:39 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: preparations for cross country drive Status: RO so, i am beginning to think about what needs to be done to take my rover cross country (i've been half-heartedly trying to sell the Evil Thing, but to no avail). the trip will be from boston to san fransisco in early july (in as little time as possible... unfortunately no chance for a scenic tour). Since the frame-up, most all mechanical problems have been dealt with (famous last words). Things I am considering getting/doing: 1. roof rack (finally, an excuse to buy a roof rack!) 2. some sort of carpet/rubber for the rear bed and around the seat base to help quiet things down (although all my possessions shoved in an 88" might solve this problem). 3. an auxillary fuel tank (i don't have an underseat toolbox, so that's not a problem) 4. radio (what was the consensus on good mounting points and speaker locations?) with respect to number 3, has anyone installed an second/auxillary fuel tank. there are two questions i had. 1. the RN list of parts necessary is quite pricey. i'd like to do things in a "professional" fashion, but i wouldn't mind something other that the "original" setup if there was no loss of robustness and features. in particular, i like being able to switch between the tanks from inside the rover, and be able to sense the fuel level in either tank. anything involving duct tape is out ;) 2. i'd like to install the tank so it had a filler thing like the normal 88 gas tank (as opposed to having to take off the driver's seat cushion to fill the tank). anyone done this? i have an extra filler next and large rubber tube from the frame-up (it came with the 60s vintage bed i bought to replace my rusted one). the main problem i see off the top of my head is the filler neck on the tank is offset to the right (if you are viewing it from the front). i guess i could have a welder relocate it. finally... sorry for the repetition, but i what spares/supplies would people carry? the only part that immediately came to mind was half axles (in addition to all my tools/fluids/duct-tape/etc). i guess i could bring rebuild kits for the key hydraulic components, but they are all in good condition (famous last words). -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 14:26:05 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 14:19:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Importing/shipping To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Does anyone have experience or have suggestions on importing a mortorcycle, and/or shipping a motorcycle or pre '67 Land Rover from the middle east (Turkey) Thanks -Michael From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 10:42:21 1994 To: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: preparations for cross country drive In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 May 1994 14:58:39 EDT." <9405301857.AA05650@MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 14:25:06 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Sender: mfredett@ichips.intel.com Status: RO Jory, Let's see if we can cover all the bases here. 1.roof racks: definitely cool accessory to have, lot's room for goodies. I can't put one on mine as I have a rather low garage door opening and I wouldn't quite clear the entrance, especially if loaded. Clearance is something to consider, otherwise go for it. 2.mats for front and rear: The new Defender 90 rear mat fits just swell, is made of super thick rubber, and has a really neat LR logo molded in. Same for the fronts. Or you could put set of stock 88 types in on top of the stock mats for a double layer effect, either would help quiet things down. 3.aux fuel tank: I would say this a must for the kind of long cross country driving you're planning. I'm in the middle of putting one on mine even as we speak and it not too hard. The points to worry about are; properly locating and welding on the forward tank mount outrigger to the frame, and cutting the holes for the filling neck in the side as well as the bulkhead and seat box. Measure CAREFULLY. The rubber hose that connects the filler neck to the tank is made by cutting one for the right side in half and connecting the two pieces with a length of brass tubing and a couple of hose clamps. Vent line is just a little longer version of the one on the stock side. Plumbing the mess is just a matter of fuel lines and compression fittings. Any NAPA store has a good selection of Main/Aux fuel valves, pick one that fits on the wall of the seat box under your knees. Gauges; just run both sending unit wires through a switch,located wherever is convenient, and from the switch to your gauge. Just be sure to label which switch position is reading out of which tank. This allows you to bypass that expensive valve/switch assembly cheaply. Also, when cutting out the holes for the filler, make sure they don't chafe on the hoses. 4.radios: I just built a little cubby box that looked like the ones on the Defender 90. You lose the center seat but how often do you have someone riding there anyway? Run the speaker wires along the bulkhead, up the sides behind the B pillar trim panel, then back to the rear. I mounted two truck type box speakers to the metal flange where the top and sides meet at the rear. Sounds ok, hey it's noisy car to start with, plus it gets the speakers up high so they're not buried when you load up the rear. Obviously you'd have to do something different if you take the top off regularly. Another option is to buy the interior door trim panels off the defender 90 from Rovers North or maybe a UK supplier. At 175 bucks a side from RN, its a pretty spendy way to get door mounted speakers, but they do look nice. 5.spares:take a tune up kit, ie plugs, points, cap, rotor etc. A spare fuel pump or at least an overhaul kit for it. Fanbelt. Spare hoses perhaps. A hub seal or two might be in order, and maybe a pair of wheel bearings, inner and outer, in case you lose a seal (never happens right?) and run the bearings dry. U-joints, though not if you've replaced them recently. Tire repair stuff. Well I hope I didn't bore anyone to death, and I hope it helps fill in the gaps for you a little. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 72 Ser lll 88 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 30 21:56:21 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: preparations for cross country drive In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 30 May 94 14:58:39 PDT." <9405301857.AA05650@MIT.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 May 94 19:48:10 PDT Status: RO In message <9405301857.AA05650@MIT.EDU> you write: > so, i am beginning to think about what needs to be done to take my rover > cross country (i've been half-heartedly trying to sell the Evil Thing, but > to no avail). the trip will be from boston to san fransisco in early july > (in as little time as possible... unfortunately no chance for a scenic > tour). Gee, so am I. I'm leaving LA for NJ around June 11th. I've driven from coast to coast 5 times in the Rover. My best time was about 3 days solo. (and that was eating fast food and sleeping 4 hours a day in rest areas) > 1. roof rack (finally, an excuse to buy a roof rack!) Just be careful not to put too much stuff up there. Once I had it really loaded and as I hit 55 mph a really nasty lateral oscillation built up in the springs. It would happen suddently at an exact mph and was really tough to keep under control. I think it's not recommended to keep more than 200 lbs of stuff in the roof rack at highway speeds. On the other hand I usually put stuff that doesn't get harmed when wet, like jerry cans, tool box and parts bin. > 2. some sort of carpet/rubber for the rear bed and around the seat base to > help quiet things down (although all my possessions shoved in an 88" might > solve this problem). You possessions should dampen the sounds. You also want to insulate the foot wells in front. I cut a piece of old shag carpet for this. It worked quite well. > 3. an auxillary fuel tank (i don't have an underseat toolbox, so that's not > a problem) I good idea. My first time cross country I only had the 12.5 gallon tank and it really sucked stopping every 100-140 miles to get gas. I've solved the problem partially by carrying 2- 5 gal (~20 liter) jerry cans. > 4. radio (what was the consensus on good mounting points and speaker location >s?) Anyone, just make it loud. :) I have a 14 Watt per channel Radio Shack radio/tapedeck with 80 Watt speakers. It was plenty loud for the radio but not loud enough for the tape deck. For some reason I could get the Heavy Metal taped loud enough, but not the Folk songs. As for mounting them I'd get self contained units and throw them on top of your stuff for now. My speakers were stolen and I think I'm goind to mount the next set up in the hardtop pointing right at me. You shouls also think about a CB. Truckers and such are fun to talk to and know where all the radar traps are (not that you have to worry about this too much when the speed limit is 65 mph and your driving a Rover). As a side note. Pennsylvania is the worst state that I have seen. The speed limit is 55 mph. 56 mph is (I think) $92 and the ticket goes up $10 every 5mph over the limit. I usually see ~6 radar traps in Penn. and ~6 for the rest of the US (I alway look for them) > finally... sorry for the repetition, but i what spares/supplies would > people carry? the only part that immediately came to mind was half axles > (in addition to all my tools/fluids/duct-tape/etc). i guess i could bring > rebuild kits for the key hydraulic components, but they are all in good > condition (famous last words). What spare should you bring? Everything (and the kitchen sink too) A while back a bunch of people posted their ideas on this. I recall TeriAnn having an extendsive list so you can check the ftp site. In my exploits I've broken a fan belt, had the points be eaten, changed the oil at a rest area, had the gearshift lever shear off. (Now that really sucked. I limped from Flagstaff to LA using my big screwdriver to start in 3rd shirf to 4th and then use the overdrive. I couldn't get the knack of pulling the slider for 1st/2nd out and then finding the 3rd/4th gear slider while actully driving) Anyway, I carry: a full set of tools (including torque wrench, timing light, volt meter, solder iron, tach/points checker, and duct tape) Any spare gaskets that I have around Spare headlight bulbs (since I have them) The other carb (since I have it) Random assortment of nuts and bolts spare points spare fan belt a change of oil gear oil spare set of spark plugs random assortment of nut,bolts, washers, etc. Haynes Manuel Factory Manuel Rover's North, Atlantic British and British Pacific parts manuels (their phone numbers) Water or antifreeze (2 gallons) Another good idea would be to contact the members of this list you live near the route you are taking. If you happen to break down, they could help-- I certainly would help anyone who broke down within a 50 to 100 mile raduis of me. Well that's all that I can think off of the top of my head. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 SIII 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 01:09:05 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 00:41:43 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Hello all, TO THE MAN LOOKING AT THE BRITAINS LAND ROVER, if you would to give me a bit better description I will be able to help you,ie colour, original box etc, type ie 88, 90. Decals on the vehicle. Please give ME for info to help YOU. TO EDWARD BALASSANIAN a simple way to deiced if you can afford the Defender 90 and ALL the accessories that go with it. IF YOU HAVE TO ASK YOU CANT AFFORD IT! As a long time 4 X 4 enthusiast and practical family person, I'll be really blunt. I love land Rover products and will be their eternal booster BUT...... I spent two days at the Cnadian Launch of the dsicovery and drove the 90 myself and listened to what alot of journo types and ordinary people said about the 90. It is a fun vehicle. It has a very powerfull 3.9 motor, which when coupled with the all round coil springs make it an incredibly agile machine off road. It has an unsurpassed surefootedness that comes with permanent four wheel drive. It's seating is basically a two plus two. IE seats two with another two if you have too, like the YJ. I would not neeccesssarily want to be in back on a long trip. The roll bar comes in a basic form and you will have to take some options to fill that out to make th soft top. At present there is no hard top so theft of items from inside is a problem if you are used to shopping and leaving stuff in the vehicle. If you are used to that problem already then fine. The suspension will go through bushes from time to time but ohterwise is pretty much a proven unit. As far as the motor and tranny I have not heard anything negative. The soft top, contrary to opion is warm in the winter and the heater can heat the vehicle really quite well, warm enough that you can take the coat off! In winter no less! The vehciel is spartan but equal to a YJ type of trim level, plastic and utilitarian with some comfort. I would say the only real point that would annoy me in buying and new 90 is the lack of galvanised mild steel parts, ie the body cappings and the brush bar etc. These if you live in a damp or cold (and therefore salty) environment then this will haunt you down the line. I really like the standard receiver hitch style towing package offered. the rear springs are a little harsh to get the GVW rating that it has, they could be a little softer. The winch mounting kit to my mind has be purpose designed but needs a roller fairlead instead of the hawse hole as standard. I would have th whole brush bar blasted and galvanised dippe d prior to installation. Because money is not an option I would get just about every bell and whistle offered! This is now 0105 am and I'm tired [D, so I know that I will think of more later, so expect to see some more stuff later. Regards Robin Craig canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 01:30:34 1994 Date: Mon, 30 May 1994 23:23:45 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Re: preparations for cross country drive To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Cc: jory bell , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199405310248.AA192122493@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO And don't forget the spare radiator hoses and some heater hose. I try now to travel more lightly than in the past but have known those who could all but build a complete second Land-Rover from the spares they feel they have to carry for a trip to the corner market. Though probaly less than legal in most states, a headset jack for the stereo may be a good idea since not only can you hear the damned thing but it also helps to preclude noise fatigue. On long trips I have also found that foam ear plugs help a lot. I also suggest several comfy pillows. Long distance trips in a Rover may be good four the soul but they can be hell on the body. James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 10:50:49 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: May flowers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 31 May 94 16:39:34 BST Status: RO Or,to be precise the *Triumph* Mayflower.Father came home one day in winter with the rivetting news that there was a Triumph Mayflower for sale at a local garage,*and* it had a heater,rare in those days,*and* it had been owned by the local curate.All this latter meant to me was that the back seat was unlikely to be worn. Father also stated that he was prepared to finance the loan to buy it. This was to wean me away from the little MG I had and loved.It also meant that any support vis-a-vis said MG was finished.He was,and still is,like that.Now let it be stated I never wanted the thing in the first place.Further aquaintance only served to reinforce that feeling.Teriann will not know this particular Triumph model,I dont think,and hasnt missed much thereby. The most one could say about it was that it was *respectable*.In a way that only the English middle classes ever achieved,because they invented it. Insufferable was closer to the point.It was contemporary to the Triumph Renown,or razor edged saloon (sedan),of which father had an example.And the Triumph Roadster (or TR1),Triumph Roadster being what TR stands for. The razor edge was literally that,each edge where normally rounded was a sharp edge,it had a Standard Vanguard 2litre engine and was a middle class limo,really.A snob of a car. The Mayflower was Triumph's attempt to break into the medium/small car market,inhabited by the Morris Minor,and by *more* snobs.Mine arrived running on three cylinders of its Standard Eight side valve engine.I ran it like that for a week,before taking the lid off and replacing an exhaust valve and promptly dropping the fifteen thou feeler gauge into the sump via the valve chest,thus making a two hour job into an all day job.It was a two door saloon,with sharp(ish) edges,built much a la Land Rover.Solid.The extra cylinder didnt seem to make any difference to its speed.It had a column change three speed box,the gear lever of which suffered from brewer's droop.It also ran on fifteen inch wheels, and the centre of gravity was somewhere above my head.Its only(slight) charm was an ignition switch that was so worn,you could swicth on,start up,remove the key and put it in your pocket.This,for some reason,made passengers want to get out.Immediately.The spare wheel was housed out of sight in the very thick boot(trunk)lid,which hinged downwards.Instruments were as a S11A Rover,in fact the dash was almost identical,except the dials were black on white.Engine 1250cc.Performance?well,0-60 in a fortnight. To relieve the sheer boredom of owning this thing I cadged the loan of a radio,no,I'm wrong,*wireless* off father.This set,children,had things called *valves* in it.There were two huge tin boxes.One contained the power pack and oscillator,and went under the bonnet.The other*much* larger box went in the car.This was the wireless receiver,and on a good day(or evening) could pull in Radio Luxembourg on 208m medium wave,which was the only station that transmitted pop in those days.Aunty BBC hated them, but with then being based abroad could do nothing to stop it. As a bird puller it rated minus ten.I finally decided to get rid after a horrendous journey of some fifteen miles at night.It had snowed,then frozen for weeks.I came off the night shift at about four in the morning to find the weather very mild,and rain falling.Water over ice.The MG would have treated these conditions with contempt.Not so this tank.After all,suburbia was *never* like this,this was*real* weather,and the wimp should have been tucked up in a naice comfy garage.For fifteen miles the thing went sideways, first one way,then the next.The ridiculously high CG meant it was all but uncontrolable,so much so that if it got into anything like a skid it simply *would not* respond to corrective measures,so you just had to sit there and hope that nothing *too* solid got in the way.After I reached the town,I stopped,literally shaking,for a ciggy. I've still got the fob off the key ring,it reads "Standard-Triumph" and, in retrospect,was perhaps the best thing about the car.It *did* however, tech me early on something the japs have yet to learn with their 4X4's that you do *not* put a high,heavy steel body on something with a fairly narrow track,and high ground clearance. So out came the wireless receiving apparatus,and exit one Mayflower, unloved,unwanted and un mourned,in PE for an MG ZA Magnette. That had its problems too,but they werent lethal,at least. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 11:26:56 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 12:17:35 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: modified xfercase source Status: RO A while back, there was mention of an outfit that sold xfer cases with a higher high gearing. There was some guy in the US who acted as a distributor for said source. Was talking about it with somebody, but couldn't find it in the FAQ. Anyone have this info? Thanks. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 13:24:34 1994 Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 14:10:36 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Spare Parts Status: RO I'm one of those sorts who carries every sapre part I can think of, along with a tool kit comprehensive enough to overhaul an engine. However, this is a *prevenative* measure, rather than a *curative* one, kind of like auto insurance. It's really quite simple: the Rover senses (and I'm sure Russell can confirm this with Nigel) what parts you have on hand, and then arranges for something you don't have in stock to break. I've never broken axles whilst carrying same, or gotten stuck after the winch was fitted. Ditto for hydraulic parts. As a result, my Rover has never let me down in 200,000 miles...except for that time that the gearshift broke off at 35 below blizzard ten miles from anywhere. But that's another story. So if you don't want to get stuck in the middle of the Mojave with buzzards circling overhead, think of spare parts as cheap insurance. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 14:24:08 1994 Date: Tue, 31 May 94 11:32:46 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: slave cylinder question Status: RO In message <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> writes: > > hey there landy owners of the world ive got a simple question for you > specialists out there. i need to know the bore size of the salve cylinder > for > my 69 series iia swb rover. it seems to me that it may be the possible reason > > why im getting into some trouble shifting into reverse 1st and 2nd. any other > > suggestions for problem areas relating to this would be much appreciated. on > another note at the vancouver all british field meet i had the opportunity to I assume your problem is thatr you put the clutch pedal to the metal and your clutch bearly disengages the transmission from the engine. 1. This will happen if you have air in the system. It is difficult to get all the air our without a power bleed. You can ether do it yourself with an E-Z bleed kit or equiv, or many service stations have power bleed kits. 2. If your clutch mechanicals are worn, they can take up a lot of slop. Elongated holes with pins going through them is the big hog. I picked up over an inch of clutch play when i renewed all the mechanical parts between the throwout bearing yoke and slave cylinder. The parts didn't look bad until I compaired them to new parts 9the enlarging of the holes didn't look obvoius. Be sure to check the upper mechanical linkage as well. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 15:08:30 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: slave cylinder question To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: Tue, 31 May 94 16:01:23 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS>; from "/G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com" at May 30, 94 10:16 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > hey there landy owners of the world ive got a simple question for you > specialists out there. i need to know the bore size of the salve cylinder for > my 69 series iia swb rover. it seems to me that it may be the possible reason > why im getting into some trouble shifting into reverse 1st and 2nd. any other but not 3rd or 4th? Have you tried good double clutching technique (for 1st to 2nd) and lotsa patience (i.e. waiting until you come to a full stop, and then some) for 1st and reverse? be nice to your tranny, rd/nigel (clutch is in, update coming soon....) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 15:20:33 1994 Date: Tue, 31 May 94 14:08:43 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Brit Parts Status: RO This is a request for you people in the Mother Land. A friend here in Montana has a 1973 Jenson-Healy that he loves very much. He needs a good access to parts. Specifically a complete turn signal assembly is needed. Do any of the Rovers parts houses also handle Jenson? If not what direction can I point my poor misguided non-Rover friend. Roy - Big Sky Country - Gumby has left town in his Rover. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 16:18:55 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: slave cylinder question To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: Tue, 31 May 94 17:09:36 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS>; from "/G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com" at May 30, 94 10:16 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO snip >suggestions for problem areas relating to this would be much appreciated. on > another note at the vancouver all british field meet i had the opportunity to > pick up a intresting manual of intrest to all land rover owners. it was an > original rover parts manual with complete blow up pictures for each and every > part including factory part numbers this is a real find and for anyone needing > cross reference with part numbers i would be happy to help. with respects to BTW, folks-while digging deep in a file cabinet at home a few months back I came across an early 60's LR catalog of options. some really neat stuff in there, including a rear-pto driven buzz saw (look out!) and the complete fire tender kit. Nice pics, and (if I do recall) bit numbers as well (surely out of date). *one* of these days I may try to scan it and send it on to the web for your browsing (and disc clogging) pleasure. rd/danige. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 16:29:55 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Defender 90 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 31 May 94 17:21:42 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9486mc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at May 31, 94 12:41 (midnight) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Robin Craig wrote (in reply to E. Balassanian) > TO EDWARD BALASSANIAN > snipsnip > The winch mounting kit to my mind has be purpose designed but needs a > roller fairlead instead of the hawse hole as standard. A friend of mine in town owns a 90, and had to replace his winch with a roller fairlead type quite recently, 'cause the standard one didn't suffice. Other than that, he's been quite pleased......up front, he stated that if you want this rig for thrashing about the woods (treading lightly, of course, though he rarely does) it is *the* vehicle to own, but if you plan on using it on the highway.....you'll be disappointed. Just not that comfortable on the ears, I guess. BTW, this guy claims that he has driven it *up* what used to be the world's steepest rail incline.....a straight up shot up Mt. Beacon. The pitch is about 45 degrees (no joke), which may not *sound* like much 'til you stand on it. However, this is the same guy who had the "waterproof" watch at age 7, if you a) remember that story, and b) catch my suitable drift. rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 17:51:05 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rudolph renamed? From: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Michele Bertrand) Reply-To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 17:50:16 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, well, I think Rudolph deserves a new name. And yhis is why: I was driving Rudolph last week and, trying out the fourth gear, I hit a major bump at speed, causing the whole vehicle to rattle and shake. Up to now, there is nothing unusual, but wait! The impact was strong enough to move aside the bracket that was holding the ammeter (non-genuine), causing one of the two wires to touch the ammeter's casing. And yes, you can imagine what happened: FIRE!! I had just the time to pull aside, get the fire extinguisher off of its bracket and try to kill the flames through holes in the firewall, from the cab and the engine compartment. Oh well, unplugged the battery, pushed the thing back in the garage and I didn't have time to change the burnt wires and blowned up ammeter since.... So, any ideas for a new name or should it remain Rudolph? How about Afterburner, Fried White Land Rover, British Toaster, Four Wheel Drive Barbecue or even Lucas Shiskabab? I'll be waiting for your suggestions and your good laughs while I'll be putting it back on the road, after refilling my fire extinguisher. By the way, we all should have one in our vehicle. It does reduce the damages when used promptly. Michel Bertrand and "Well-done Rudolph", Ottawa, Ontario, Canada "No, Mom, those fumes and flames were not factory options..." -- Michele Bertrand, mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 17:47:24 1994 Date: Tue, 31 May 94 18:38:59 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: odd returns Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Bill G- I am getting some returned mail on "reply" postings (haven't tried a direct posting, but this one is so we'll see) that appears to be coming from Bill Maloney's obsolete mail address (his *old* att one: uucp@attmail.com). Bill M- Is this your obsolete address? rd/nigeguy. Z[?62;1;2;6;7;8;9c l From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 31 21:35:00 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: preparations for cross country drive To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Tue, 31 May 94 19:25:52 MDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405311532.AA19289@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at May 30, 94 2:25 pm Status: RO For good , cheap mats, I use a pickup truck liner and cut to fit. as they are usally all the same price get the one for the largest bed. For the range rover I just used the carpet for a pattern. also about the winch. I can attest the the fact that if you have one installed you will never get stuck. I just tried the Killer mud hole by my house (the one that caught me before the winch was installed), and breezed thru it. Russ > > Jory, > Let's see if we can cover all the bases here. > 1.roof racks: definitely cool accessory to have, lot's > room for goodies. I can't put one on mine as I have a > rather low garage door opening and I wouldn't quite clear > the entrance, especially if loaded. Clearance is something > to consider, otherwise go for it. > 2.mats for front and rear: The new Defender 90 rear mat fits > just swell, is made of super thick rubber, and has a really > neat LR logo molded in. Same for the fronts. Or you could put > set of stock 88 types in on top of the stock mats for a double > layer effect, either would help quiet things down. > 3.aux fuel tank: I would say this a must for the kind of long > cross country driving you're planning. I'm in the middle of > putting one on mine even as we speak and it not too hard. The > points to worry about are; properly locating and welding on > the forward tank mount outrigger to the frame, and cutting the > holes for the filling neck in the side as well as the bulkhead > and seat box. Measure CAREFULLY. The rubber hose that connects > the filler neck to the tank is made by cutting one for the right > side in half and connecting the two pieces with a length of brass > tubing and a couple of hose clamps. Vent line is just a little > longer version of the one on the stock side. Plumbing the mess > is just a matter of fuel lines and compression fittings. Any NAPA > store has a good selection of Main/Aux fuel valves, pick one that > fits on the wall of the seat box under your knees. Gauges; just > run both sending unit wires through a switch,located wherever is > convenient, and from the switch to your gauge. Just be sure to label > which switch position is reading out of which tank. This allows > you to bypass that expensive valve/switch assembly cheaply. Also, > when cutting out the holes for the filler, make sure they don't > chafe on the hoses. > 4.radios: I just built a little cubby box that looked like the ones > on the Defender 90. You lose the center seat but how often do you > have someone riding there anyway? Run the speaker wires along the > bulkhead, up the sides behind the B pillar trim panel, then back > to the rear. I mounted two truck type box speakers to the metal flange > where the top and sides meet at the rear. Sounds ok, hey it's noisy > car to start with, plus it gets the speakers up high so they're > not buried when you load up the rear. Obviously you'd have to do > something different if you take the top off regularly. Another option > is to buy the interior door trim panels off the defender 90 from > Rovers North or maybe a UK supplier. At 175 bucks a side from RN, > its a pretty spendy way to get door mounted speakers, but they do > look nice. > 5.spares:take a tune up kit, ie plugs, points, cap, rotor etc. A spare > fuel pump or at least an overhaul kit for it. Fanbelt. Spare hoses > perhaps. A hub seal or two might be in order, and maybe a pair of > wheel bearings, inner and outer, in case you lose a seal (never happens > right?) and run the bearings dry. U-joints, though not if you've replaced > them recently. Tire repair stuff. > > Well I hope I didn't bore anyone to death, and I hope it helps fill in the > gaps for you a little. > Rgds > Mike Fredette > mfredett@ichips.intel.com > 72 Ser lll 88 > Portland, Oregon > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 21 06:02:14 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: FTP problems with lro digests From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Sat, 21 May 94 12:32:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I am unable to get the digests on lulu.cc.missouri.edu in the dir /pub/lro This is what I get: ------- ftp> get digest.93.8 ftp: unable to open digest.93.8 ftp> mget digest.*.* ftp: unable to open digest.92.10 ftp: unable to open digest.92.11 ftp: unable to open digest.92.12 ftp: unable to open digest.92.7 ftp: unable to open digest.92.8 ftp: unable to open digest.92.9 ftp: unable to open digest.93.1 ftp: unable to open digest.93.10 ftp: unable to open digest.93.11 ftp: unable to open digest.93.12 ftp: unable to open digest.93.2 ftp: unable to open digest.93.3 ftp: unable to open digest.93.4 ftp: unable to open digest.93.5 ftp: unable to open digest.93.6 ftp: unable to open digest.93.7 ftp: unable to open digest.93.8 ftp: unable to open digest.93.9 ftp: unable to open digest.94.2 ftp: unable to open digest.94.4 ftp: unable to open digest.94.5.part ------------- Any suggestion? Thank you Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it Any suggestion? Thank you Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it