From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 1 15:14:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 12:06:15 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, leefi@microsoft.com Subject: Re: Rover LWB in Cliffhanger My '64 SIIa is the "genuine Rover noise" star in the movie, "The Serpent And The Butterfly". This is a B horror movie about a beautiful (of course) athropoligist investigating Voo Doo in Haiti. I spent about four hours out in a quiet country area with a sound recording engineer from the studio. He was very consciencious and particular that he was getting things correct, like he would watch for airplanes (jets up high) and redo a recording if a bird churrped or there had been a truck off in the distance. He recorded everything he needed according to a "script" for the land Rover; accelerating, decelerating, braking, bonnet opening and closing, doors closing, slammimg ect. I went to see the movie (of course) even though it would not have been on my list of movies to see. My wife and I could easily recognize the Rover sounds from our truck, and I'd say they did an excelent job of putting the right sounds in the right spots. Maybe the "Rover noise star" in Cliffhanger *had* a Plymouth engine, but they asked me if mine was all original, before we cut a deal. See, now you have another reason to keep your Rover stock. Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 28 22:51:30 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: Rover LWB in Cliffhanger > Content-Length: 387 > X-Lines: 7 > > i saw the movie Cliffhanger this afternoon. in the movie, Stallone's > vehicle is a late Series II (perhaps III) LWB with a safari top, > gray/green. i don't believe the engine/transmission noises associated > with the vehicle in the movie were accurate, it sounded more like the > V8 in my old Barracuda from high school days... unfortunately, the > Rover had a minor role in the movie. :-( > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 1 15:14:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 09:37:00 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk Subject: Re: Fuel Deficiency Ross, You didn't say which engine you have in your land Rover. I just put a new series III readiator in my series II 109 2-1/4 pertol and it seems to be cooling just fine. I do have an overflow bottle attached. I also live in the cool coastal climate. You may want to check your thermostat, back- flush your block and check your timing. Land Rovers, like the TR3 & 4 (Morgans too) need a special thermostat that has a movable collar. There is a radiator bipass pipe that allows water to be pumped through the engine when the car is cold. When the thermostat opens, the collar moves to block the bipass opening and force the water through the radiator. If you do not have a special thermostat with the collar, your radiator (lots of little passages = high resistance) will be connected in parallel with an open bipass hose = low resistance) Most of your coolent would bipass the radiator when the engine is warm. When I rebuild my TR3A engine, I'm going to have to check if it takes the same diameter thermostat as the Land Rover (proper TR3 thermostats are very hard to find). TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 1 18:14:42 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 18:01:14 CDT Reading about TeriAnn and Dixon working on their Land Rovers has gotten me enthusiastic about working on mine. I finally had a chance to start working on my Land Rover ('69 IIa 88" petrol) project this last weekend. Nice to finally have some time available (another major project got finished up the weekend before). First order of business was to pull the rear differential, since the inner two inches of the right axle was still in inside (twisted off in the diff). I pulled the drive shaft and removed most of the differential housing nuts. Then I went around to pull the left axle; I planned on replacing it too since I didn't trust it, given the fate of its brother. I pulled the bolts holding the drive flange to the wheel (and I also noted I am missing a total of three bolts between the two sides). When I went to gently pry it loose, it seemed *awfully* loose. When I took it in my hand I could *spin* in around with no effort. Whoa. THAT shouldn't happen. I also couldn't get the axle/flange to come out more than 0.25 inch. When I've previously removed half shafts from an Austin Healey Sprite, they came out with almost no effort whatsoever. Having a strong suspicion as to what I might find, I removed the drive flange. The reason the drive flange was rotating freely was that there were no longer any splines left inside the flange. No more than smooth, very low bumps remained, along with some buttery black goo (which is where splines go when they die). Well, that answered that question! Add one drive flange to my shopping list (anyone have a serviceable spare from a derelict in their sparebox? Rovers North wants $44 for one, which is affordable, but I'd like to find a used for less - I've already spent more on parts than I did for the Land Rover :( ). The axle was still rather firmly engaged. I could wiggle it side to side, but it would not budge when trying to withdraw it. I finally resorted to rigging a gear puller jig, and managed to pull it (with a significant amount of effort) another inch or so, at which point I ran out of travel with my jig (the jig was up, so to speak :). The axle still being firmly attached, I reattached the drive flange and pryed against it. There was a sudden soft "pop" and the axle was free. When I tried to pull it I discovered that there was not enough clearance between the Land Rover and the adjacent wall. Rather than push the Land Rover outside, remove the axle, and push it back inside by myself, I decided that it was late enough to retire from battle for the night. Next step (Friday, hopefully) is to remove the axle and differential. I will be *very* curious to see the state of the differential. Any guesses as to why the axle was so difficult to remove from the differential? Is there some real reason that it should *not* be a smooth sliding fit like I was expecting? As a guess, either the axle is half sheared at the differential, and was thus an interference fit, or perhaps the axle is bent (didn't look like it from the amount I was able to withdraw before hitting the wall). Mark From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 1 20:15:32 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 93 14:35:11 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: LR Information Request for Weekend Project Dixon, I get the impression that none of the advise or suggestions that you get from this alias are worth the effort. Why don't you just continue with the duct tape, bailing wire and vise-grips. Let us know if your Rover gets down the driveway and back without requiring repair. Regards, Bill G. PS SIIa Rovers don't need ballast resistors. > ...a ballast resistor for the Mini (the Rover has the original)... > > I have found that nyloc nuts are really not worth the effort. > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 2 06:14:55 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Aw,Nuts! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 12:06:36 BST Can anyone tell me offhand what thread the two bolts are that fasten the main gear lever to the bellhousing?This is as distinct from the two *studs* that fasten it to the gearbox.My heap was missing the bolts when I bought it(also the D-shaped cover that fits underneath the mounting),and as a makeshift remedy then,(five years ago) I Loctited the back studs in, and made do with that.I did try at the time to find some siutable bolts, but gave up when I nearly dropped one into the bellhousing.I really*do* think its about time I did something about it,since it might make gear changing a little easier:-) Thanks Mike Rooth PS I'm even prepared to have an operation on my wallet,and BUY the two bolts.Talk about last of the big spenders..... From shute!twakeman@apple.com Wed Jun 2 11:44:23 1993 Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 09:44:11 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover! Mark, Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost of repairs, that is an interesting thing. Unless you got taken, or had the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the fair selling price. I paid $350 for my 109 in 1978 and towed it home behind my late series IIA 88. The previous owner inherited the car and didn't know to put oil anyplace except the engine. He ran it until the rear diff went dry than on 4WD until the transfer case went dry. It was in overall poor shape with mostly good body panels. I got her on the road with a rebuilt diff and new bearings in the transfer case. 15 years and 200K miles later it was time to pay for the Land Rover. With a rebuilt engine, rebuilt transmission, new radiator, & assundry parts I just paid 8 times more than I paid for her to get her back on the road in decent condition. But it is nice to have her back on line again. Now about your axle problem. New axles can some times be a bit tight, but older axles should slide in & out One possible exception might be a soft metal axle (I currently have them in mine). Standard axles are hard steel. They have a tendency to crystalize then break. The soft metal ones are supposed to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break. Anyway, mine were a hammer fit. Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder gears) might still be a tight fit. Ether way, the axle should be clear of the diff when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out. If you still have resistance and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the hub side and not the diff. You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on and the drive shaft attached? ] If your other axle broke at the center, or you drove with the broken axle and rear drive shaft connected, chances are very good you will need a rebuilt diff. When you break an axle, you should immediatly stop the LR, and remove both axles and the rear drive shaft This insures nothing is turning the diff to get a chunk of metal between the pinion gear and the ring gear (sudden death). I've never broken an axle when I have had grubbies on and the tools in the car so I almost always lost the diff with the axle :*( You might try calling Jim "Scotty" Howett. He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do mail order. Jim's number is (510)686-2255 (N.E. S.F. Bay area) Good luck! TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 2 11:54:47 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 09:44:11 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Subject: Re: Beginning the rebuild on *my* Land Rover! Mark, Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost of repairs, that is an interesting thing. Unless you got taken, or had the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the fair selling price. I paid $350 for my 109 in 1978 and towed it home behind my late series IIA 88. The previous owner inherited the car and didn't know to put oil anyplace except the engine. He ran it until the rear diff went dry than on 4WD until the transfer case went dry. It was in overall poor shape with mostly good body panels. I got her on the road with a rebuilt diff and new bearings in the transfer case. 15 years and 200K miles later it was time to pay for the Land Rover. With a rebuilt engine, rebuilt transmission, new radiator, & assundry parts I just paid 8 times more than I paid for her to get her back on the road in decent condition. But it is nice to have her back on line again. Now about your axle problem. New axles can some times be a bit tight, but older axles should slide in & out One possible exception might be a soft metal axle (I currently have them in mine). Standard axles are hard steel. They have a tendency to crystalize then break. The soft metal ones are supposed to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break. Anyway, mine were a hammer fit. Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder gears) might still be a tight fit. Ether way, the axle should be clear of the diff when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out. If you still have resistance and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the hub side and not the diff. You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on and the drive shaft attached? ] If your other axle broke at the center, or you drove with the broken axle and rear drive shaft connected, chances are very good you will need a rebuilt diff. When you break an axle, you should immediatly stop the LR, and remove both axles and the rear drive shaft This insures nothing is turning the diff to get a chunk of metal between the pinion gear and the ring gear (sudden death). I've never broken an axle when I have had grubbies on and the tools in the car so I almost always lost the diff with the axle :*( You might try calling Jim "Scotty" Howett. He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do mail order. Jim's number is (510)686-2255 (N.E. S.F. Bay area) Good luck! TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 2 12:34:02 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Background on my Land Rover To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 2 Jun 93 12:22:03 CDT In-Reply-To: <9306021644.AA23119@apple.com>; from "Teriann J. Wakeman" at Jun 2, 93 9:44 am TeriAnn says: > Glad to read about you starting work on your Land rover. As to the cost > of repairs, that is an interesting thing. Unless you got taken, or had > the Landy for a while the cost of repair is inversly proportional to the > fair selling price. Fortunately, I paid a very low price for my Land Rover. The fact that it had been derelict for approximately 10 years and abandoned by the previous owner helped. It is thus easy to spend more than the purchase price on new parts through Rovers North (for example, completely new rubber seals, two new axles, missing carb bits, new rear window, ignition switch (remember, I didn't get the key with it!), hydraulic rebuild kits, new choke cable, etc, etc, etc). One challenge here is that (as a balance for the low purchase price) I have to discover all the problems on my own - no previous owner to talk to, and no chance to drive it beforehand. Though I knew of the broken right axle, I did not try to disassemble the left axle or differential before purchase - I figured I'd take them as I found them and deal with them when rebuilding it. > Now about your axle problem. New axles can some times be a bit tight, but > older axles should slide in & out One possible exception might be a soft metal > axle (I currently have them in mine). Standard axles are hard steel. They > have a tendency to crystalize then break. The soft metal ones are supposed > to not crystalize and to twist unstead of break. Anyway, mine were a hammer > fit. Now if yours were the same, then the ends (twords center of spyder > gears) might still be a tight fit. Ether way, the axle should be clear of the > diff when the axle is about 6 or 7 inches out. If you still have resistance > and your axle is at least that far out, your resistance might be on the > hub side and not the diff. Yow! A *hammer* fit? The sprite was a finger push fit. I have no idea if these are the originals or replacements. They will shortly be replacement new Land Rover (via Rovers North) axles (halfshafts, I suppose, for the correct terminology). The resistance to removal dropped to zero after about four or five inches of extraction. I figure all the resistance was extracting the splines from the differential. > You sticking might also have been because this axle was starting to shear or > you had tension on the axle (was the transmission in gear or the transmission brake on > and the drive shaft attached? The rear drive shaft was removed at the time. My suspicion is a partly twisted inner spline end on the axle (the other was twisted completely off). I'll know when I remove the axle and diff this Friday. Mark From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 5 04:17:29 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: LR Information Request for Weekend Project From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1993 03:14:41 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > I get the impression that none of the advise or suggestions that you get > from this alias are worth the effort. Why don't you just continue with the > duct tape, bailing wire and vise-grips. Let us know if your Rover gets down > the driveway and back without requiring repair. Actually they are very useful. Some, while greatly detailed and outlining a series of steps are not appropriate when faced by a notary waving a contract stating that the beast must leave the property in order to finalise the sale of my house. This is when the duct tape and bailing wire comes into play. I had roughly a month to move out of my house into the new place withour assistance. The Rover was my only form of serious transportation, as Mini or Rabbit loads were not going to get me very far very fast. Now that I am happily ensconced in my new abode, I shall begin to make use of the suggestions and advice and fix some of the temperary bodge jobs that I have been forced to undertake. There are a nuimber of outstanding problems that are needing to be addressed. Starting with a compression test, replacing the Solex with a Weber, replacing the petrol tank, exhaust system, should get the vehicle to a more reliable state, or one where it will go more than fifty miles without serious sworking at the side of the road. On can only carry around boxes of spare parts and a ton of tools for so long. I have been archiving this mailing list for as long as I have received it. The series on restarting a long dead engine have been excellent, despite the final failure of all of the options to actually move the pistons without actually extracting the engine. In fact a number of people in the Ottawa area read the print-outs that I supply (those without modems to connect into my system, or who were ldx to my system) on the various trials and tribulations of myself and others here. While it would be nice to have a Rover that did not require the amount of effort that I have poured into mine, the end result will be rather satisfying, as well as providing me with the knowledge and confidence to effect future repairs and restorative work on the beast. The messages here have given me a great deal of confidence, and even if many arrive after I have found a solution, is is *greatly* assuring to read that I have done the correct thing. Now, if I only had a live InterNet feed rather than the slow uucp feed, much wasted effort would be avoided. Don't forget, bailing wire, duct tape, and vice grips can get an unco-operative vehicle to get somewhere where serious attention can be addressed to the failures that have occurred. They are only temperary in nature. Waiting for parts requires such inventive actions, when one really cannot wait for various reasons. $$$ availability requires that I get parts from the cheapest, genuine, source, and while RN is fairly close, when applied to my bank balance, it is far away. > PS SIIa Rovers don't need ballast resistors. This one does. This is a SIIa that required the headlamps to be turned on before the engine will fire. To get the 109 back to its original state is going to be a long task as various "options" are removed, and the vehicle put back into its original 1964 state. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 7 09:57:12 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: The differential story, answers and questions To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 9:44:26 CDT A friend and I pulled the rear differential on the Land Rover Friday night. I now have the dubious pleasure of knowing *exactly* why the rear end self destructed. The previous owner had made a permanently locked differential by arc welding the inside differential gears into one solid mass. The twisting forces going around turns must have been tremendous. No wonder one axle twisted off completely, and the other wiped out its drive flange. Other than the arc welding, the differential is in perfect shape. :( I had fully expected to find a catastrophic failure, broken teeth, etc. I would have shrugged and said - "accident, these things happen". But instead I feel disappointed that this whole mess was caused by a rather stupid human action. Can anyone enlighten me - does locking a differential like this make any sense, really? I can understand it for drag racers (straight shot, no turns), or off road *only* vehicles (mud, snow, sand, or bouncing three wheels off the ground a lot), but for a *Land Rover*? Anyhow, I need another differential and two new drive flanges (I looked at the "good" one, after wiping off grease - the splines are half gone already). I've already mentioned that there are *no* used Land Rover parts available locally. Does anyone on the list have a line on a decent used differential? (I am very serious here - if you have a spare used diff in your possession, or know of a derelict that you would be willing to snare the differential from, I would be very willing to buy it from you - email me if you are interested). I note Rovers North has used diffs listed for $350, which if I can't find one significantly cheaper, I'll have to take. TeriAnn, you passed along "Scotty" Howett's number earlier - is that where you have gotten your differentials when you have needed them? It is possible that mine is rebuildable - though minimally it will need a matched set of four differential gears, and probably the differential case (the one the crown wheel bolts to). Given this situtation, I am doubtful that mine could be rebuilt cheaper than buying a new one, but I don't know, having never done this before - opinions? Is rebuilding a Land Rover differential something a Land Rover expert (like Scotty) would be solely capable of, or could a local differential shop do a competent job? I spent the weekend fixing wiring. The p.o. had quite a few interesting bodge jobs in the wiring harness - there were loose wires lying about all over, bare ends (no terminals to even help guess where things went). After a full day with my meter, I am close to being confident that it will not melt down immediately when I connect a battery. A quick run to Radio Shack for more crimp connectors tonight, and the electrical system will be complete enough to test with power. (Speaking of bodge jobs, how does an aftermarket ammeter (the full current pass through kind (no external shunt)) with the wiring simply stripped and *wrapped* loosely about the terminals strike you?) I have a Zenith carb. The previous choke cable was toast. I put a new one on, but am apparently missing some clamping piece to hold the outer sheath at the carb. There are two thin parallel slots in a metal braket attached to the carb. Is this where it mounts, and if so, what does the mounting arrangement look like? Also, is the proper routing of the choke cable over or under the heater pipes? The total hydraulic system needs rebuilding, of course. I note that the clutch master cylinder is aluminum (whereas the brake master is iron). I've rebuilt plenty of iron cylinders, but no aluminum. Do I recall that there is a problem rebuilding aluminum cylinders? Recommended alternative (if so) is presumably buy a new one? Mark From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 7 11:15:39 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 7 Jun 93 09:10:03 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: The differential story, answers and questions Mark, There is a guy locally that is a land rover fanatic. I was buying a slave cylinder rebuild kit the other day and he mentioned he have many used parts. His vitals are: Doug Shipman Ships Landrover Repair/Parts 503-252-5566 All the local LR people I know have had god results working with him. If he doesn't pan out let me know...When I was showing my autos's at the Portland British Field meet last year a person named Ken Hillard gave me his card and told me about his LR business...he's located in Yakima, WA I beleive (I have his card at home). Good luck. Bruce Harding Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com Anyhow, I need another differential and two new drive flanges (I looked at the "good" one, after wiping off grease - the splines are half gone already). I've already mentioned that there are *no* used Land Rover parts available locally. Does anyone on the list have a line on a decent used differential? (I am very serious here - if you have a spare used diff in your possession, or know of a derelict that you would be willing to snare the differential from, I would be very willing to buy it from you - email me if you are interested). I note Rovers North has used diffs listed for $350, which if I can't find one significantly cheaper, I'll have to take. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 9 16:51:27 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 17:36:44 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: New Old LandRover Owner Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now. Last weekend I bought a '69 IIa SWB and today it passed inspection here in Mass. Before I even had the inspection sticker, I had an order in to Rovers North for $500 in various parts and more are on the way. Interesting vehicle to drive... I've done Bondurant's and done track time so I like to do a proper heel-toe, rev-matched, double-declutched downshift when I'm driving (you're either on the throttle or on the brake or you're not driving). Doing this in the LR, however, is another matter :-). Heel-toe really *is* heel-toe in there. Since I'm usually using a synchro'd transmission, my double declutching is really an anti-wear measure, in the 3rd-to-2nd in the LR, it's required. I'm getting much better/smoother at it as a result. But putting all the pieces together, it whines, it shimies, and a decidedly non-linear steering mechanism make it all a real workout... I am having fun... This weekend I'm planning on replacing all shocks (they're pumping air at the moment), front springs, misc. electrical bits and maybe some seals if the RN order comes in time. I have a can of honest-to- god triethyl lead to fix up the fuel but a valve job with hardened seats will eventually happen. Probably work on the front bearings too; I have a bit too much endfloat at the moment... This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for some parts I'd like to get. Mainly, an overdrive unit. From the diagrams, it looks like this fits on the back of the transfer case and replaces what I'll call the idler shaft in the transfer unit... (Is that right?) Like to hear recommendations and suggestions on such a beast. RN has a Fairley unit for something like $800; I'd like to do better than that if possible (wouldn't mind rebuilding one). Would also like an oil pressure sending unit and an original heater valve.... How does one replace the side and rear door latches? If possible, I'd like to get matching locking units. Generally isn't necessary but I would like the option of having the beast minimally secured when parked in the open.... RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings. Has anyone tried these? Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge? Also talked to RN about replacing the frame. It's not something I need to do yet but it would be an interesting project. They've had people do it in a (long) weekend. I asked them if they have anything like the tech bulletins in their newsletter on frame replacement and they said no but they've had offers/suggestions of making a video of LR repair including frame work. Give them a call and encourage them... this would be a 'Good Thing'. Guess I need a name for the beast, too.... Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 9 18:04:19 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 15:59:00 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: New Old LandRover Owner >Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now. Last weekend >I bought a '69 IIa SWB and today it passed inspection here in Mass. Congratulations...they are different than anythong else you'll drive (as it sounds like you've found out). If the tranny is stock, 1st and 2nd are not synchromesh. I have to double clutch into 2nd. It's a bit harder to downshift into 2nd but it can be done without grinding although it's easier to leave it in 3rd and push hard on the accelerator. >This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for >some parts I'd like to get. Mainly, an overdrive unit. I would recommend this is you will do any driving over 55mph or have any steep hills to climb. I have a Fairey OD on mine and I can hold 65-70mph on a flat with no problem (I like to pass people in MB and BMW's doing 75 and look at the expression on their faces). The OD also allows you to split shift when driving up steep hills. Without it stay off to the far right so the traffic can pass. >How does one replace the side and rear door latches? I don't think removing them is a big deal. The door keys on mine are different that the rear door. I don't know if this is stock or not. You may want to just remove the locks and take them to a locksmith to re-key them (I don't know if this is possable but seems cheaper than new locks). >RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings. Has anyone >tried these? Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge? I have these on mine. They were put on when the swivel pins were replaced 15k miles ago. The seem to be holding up fine. I would think it's better to stop all the grunge from getting on the swivel pins. >Guess I need a name for the beast, too.... I can't think of a more approiate name then 'beast'. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com 70 Series IIa 88" From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 9 18:27:44 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 22:47:08 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Monty's new rig Monty- many congrads on your new purchase. as for leather gaiters-i, too would like to see some comments from other lro's on this. i considered purchasing some while i did the swivel pin housing seals on nigel, but backed off. RN told me that they were a good idea if you plan on doing lots of off roading in the mud and sand, but were otherwise not really of any benefit. i am planning on replacing my cones and springs (within the swivel pin housing) with a raliko bush setup in the coming months (never did entirely get rid of my front end shimmy and have traced the problem to a) a partially worn spline that fits within my r/s cone and b) the cones themselves-original circa 1960's....i am told by RN that the new bush setup comes with new splines that have to be press fit into the lever controlling the angle of the swivel pin housing). i figure that while i do the new bush setup i will reconsider the gaiters. many people over the past several years i've watched this list have posted questions on overdrives......the consensus seems to be BUY NEW. $800 does not seem that rediculous to me-but then again, nigel came with a fairey unit as was. after enjoying it for a year now, i am not sure i will ever own a road-worthy rover without one. splurge! framejob in a weekend?? good luck. better wait 'til the off season (if there ever is one with a LR). Rovon! rd From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 9 19:19:42 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 93 22:47:08 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Monty's new rig Monty- many congrads on your new purchase. as for leather gaiters-i, too would like to see some comments from other lro's on this. i considered purchasing some while i did the swivel pin housing seals on nigel, but backed off. RN told me that they were a good idea if you plan on doing lots of off roading in the mud and sand, but were otherwise not really of any benefit. i am planning on replacing my cones and springs (within the swivel pin housing) with a raliko bush setup in the coming months (never did entirely get rid of my front end shimmy and have traced the problem to a) a partially worn spline that fits within my r/s cone and b) the cones themselves-original circa 1960's....i am told by RN that the new bush setup comes with new splines that have to be press fit into the lever controlling the angle of the swivel pin housing). i figure that while i do the new bush setup i will reconsider the gaiters. many people over the past several years i've watched this list have posted questions on overdrives......the consensus seems to be BUY NEW. $800 does not seem that rediculous to me-but then again, nigel came with a fairey unit as was. after enjoying it for a year now, i am not sure i will ever own a road-worthy rover without one. splurge! framejob in a weekend?? good luck. better wait 'til the off season (if there ever is one with a LR). Rovon! rd From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 03:43:51 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Gaiters To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 9:35:09 BST A mate of mine who had a a '80 S11 88" rebiult his front axle,including new swivel housings.He also added gaiters.The people who sold him the parts advised him to fill the gaiters with grease after fitting.He did.Worked fine, no grot can get to the chrome housings through all *that* grease. As for O/D units,I wish I could afford one.Who knows,I *might* just be able to reach the dizzy speed of 50mph:-)Go for it. Incidenally,for S11 above,read S111. You are certainly going to be busy.Just how many days *do* you people have in a weekend?:-) Congratulations,and enjoy yourself. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 04:16:39 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Gaiters To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 9:35:09 BST A mate of mine who had a a '80 S11 88" rebiult his front axle,including new swivel housings.He also added gaiters.The people who sold him the parts advised him to fill the gaiters with grease after fitting.He did.Worked fine, no grot can get to the chrome housings through all *that* grease. As for O/D units,I wish I could afford one.Who knows,I *might* just be able to reach the dizzy speed of 50mph:-)Go for it. Incidenally,for S11 above,read S111. You are certainly going to be busy.Just how many days *do* you people have in a weekend?:-) Congratulations,and enjoy yourself. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:53:18 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available... To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (land-rover-owner) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 11:17:31 CDT Weren't folks (specifically you, Dixon) saying that rebuild kits for Solex carburetors were no longer available? I just bought a rebuild kit for my Zenith, and thought I would ask (out of curiosity) if they could get a kit for a Solex. The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit. Perhaps they are mining a lode of unexhausted Solex parts kits? Does anyone want me to pursue this farther? Mark From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:55:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 08:47:05 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: New Old LandRover Owner Monty, Congradulations on your new purchase! I have the leather gaters over my swivel ball joints. I think they are good insurance. They are not very hard to put on & protect the swivels and the seals. pitting is the enemy on the swivels. If you live in a place where there are corrosives on the road I would consider them a must. RE: Overdrives. They do indeed replace a plate on the back of the transfer case. Beware of used ones, they are normally worn out. I would save up for a new one then be sure to keep it full of oil Oil Hmm that reminds me... FREQUENTLY check the oil levels in the transmission, transfer case (opening half way up on back), both front swivel ball housings, and both diffs. You do not know how fast these are leaking oil and you really do not want any of these to run dry. It gets very expensive very fast. Transmission- Do not try to speed shift these. all the gears need to cone to a complete halt at the middle of the 'H'. This is especilally true of the all syncro series III transmission. failure to do so will after a while result in little mettal pices littering the inside bottom of the transmission housing. Don't litter. 4th gear is always the prefered gear to minimize wear on the transmission. rear axles- These crystalize over time. Crystalized axles break. If you do not know how long yours have been in, it wouldn't hurt to replace both with new ones. New frame- Yah, right, pull the entire drive train, including front and rear axles, all the steering stuff, the body and install all this onto a new frame in one week end. right. You say there were about 10 trained Land Rover mechanics working on the job and all the bolts were new before they started? TeriAnn '60 109 two door From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:58:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 10 Jun 93 12:11:55 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: New Old LandRover Owner Sounds like the gaiters are a good idea... Plenty of salt here in NE so a pair will be secured... Guess I will get a new Fairey unit. Looks like another call to RN is in the works. Has anyone installed one of these after-the-fact? Does it require a new hole and boot in the floor or does the stick come up through an existing hole? It's not clear from the picture in the catalog.... >New frame- >Yah, right, pull the entire drive train, including front and rear axles, >all the steering stuff, the body and install all this onto a new frame in >one week end. right. You say there were about 10 trained Land Rover mechanics >working on the job and all the bolts were new before they started? The story was, it was a *long* weekend, Thanksgiving to be precise. Didn't replace everything he should have, like shackle bolts, etc. and had to do these as they fell apart soon after the reframing. Another guy did one in a week and the RN person on the phone did one in a month of evenings. A minimum of 40 hours work was the estimate he gave. It sounds like a rewarding project: to have a LandRover with a pristine frame. Oooh, aaah! This weekend I'll be doing the shocks and front springs (lists just slightly to port) and will be playing Mr. Petroleum Products to top off all the oil/grease consuming bits. Another question: does the timing chain wear badly? Should I consider replacing it and the tensioner just as a precaution? And where do most people mount the Blaupunkt? :-) monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:58:21 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Parts! From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:36:45 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Finally! A parts order from Merseyside arrives. New door hinge rebuild kits (to replace some ugly stove bolts), a new petrol tank (to replace an army gerry can and a sediment filled original tank), the adapter plate for the Weber, and a silencer/tail pipe assembly. Looks like this may be a Rover weekend as I undertake the fitting of all of these nice new parts... It may even be ready for some serious off-road activities next weekend at the OVLR camping/birthday party. I understand they have been setting up some rather challenging courses for us to try out... It feels like Christmas! Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 18:59:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Late breaking news... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1993 11:43:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Though I lack the original article, the London Telegraph had an article on the Discovery this past Tuesday. Apparently, Rover has signed an agreement with Honda to rebadge the Discovery under a Honda label and sell it in Japan. Rover has rejected suggestions that this move will devalue the LR name, but says that it is a tribute to quality English workmanship. This is the first time that a Japanese firm has taken a foreign produced vehicle and rebadged it with a Japanese name. The version to be shipped will be the SWB softtop edition with roll bar, alloy wheels, 2.5TDi engine. The article I am told also says that it will be the petrol version. Somehow the engine and petrol do not seem to go together very well... Last year Rover sold 800 vehicles through 35 dealerships. With the Honda version, it will be sold through the large Honda dealership network. Production is expected to increase by some fifty cars a week to meet the demand. Honda owns 20% of Rover Group. List price is expected to be the Japanese equiv. of 15,995 pounds. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 19:04:16 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: New Old LandRover Owner From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 23:26:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out Well, I did it.... I'm a registered LandRover owner now. Congradulations. It is nice to hear that another LR has found a happy home and will continue to work for many more years. > This new LR owner would like to enlist the readers in looking out for > some parts I'd like to get. Mainly, an overdrive unit. Buy one new. Finding a used one can be very difficult, and at $800 from RN, it is a worthwhile investment. > If possible, I'd like to get matching locking units. Actually, I have never seen one with matching locks. Both drivers door and rear door have different keys. > RN has some leather gaiters for the swivel pin housings. Has anyone > tried these? Are they a good thing or do they just collect grunge? They are a good thing, but only worth fitting if you are planning to attack the swivel housing to replace seals or parts. To remove all of the various parts to put the gaiters in place can be a formidible task. I would wait until you need to undertake other preventative measures. > Guess I need a name for the beast, too.... Hmmm, until I think of something, "swamp beast" is reserved up here :-) Actually it should probably be "tundra beast"... :-) Rgds. Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 10 23:41:03 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: misc rover rantings Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 00:31:24 EDT door locks: when i got my rover, the rear lock was inoperational... and the side locks were only marginally so... i ended up replacing all the lock cylinders, so now everything is on the same key note to monty (and other botson area roverists): i recently had some spare keys made by a really good locksmith who used to have a land rover machina locksmith (al kamishlan) 3 porter street watertown ma 02127 617-923-1683 mobile: 617-694-3990 i am sure he coud advise you on your options... frame replacement: i once did a frame replacement on a chevy suburban in less than 30 hours (although we did gain access to a 20 ton hoist and 3 people)... this job included a conversion from 2-4 wheel drive and automatic to standard... admittedly, things needed a bit of fine tuning during the next 6 months or so ;) my (rover) frame replacement took probably 200 hours spread over almost 3 months... (jeez, your descriptions of weekend rover frame jobs makes me feel slothful in the extreme)... but then again, my rover has been cursed by satan and absolutely everything went wrong (and i had pretty much no assistance which made parts of the project kinda interesting) i also did paint (since the body panels were a misfit bunch) and a bunch of other jobs "while it's apart..." if i spent one more day waiting for the ups guy... i must say that after this adventure/ordeal, my motivation to work on the vehicle has declined precipitiously, anyone else experienced this type of reaction... (it's been almost a year) perhas it is just that there is no other rover enthusiasts to work with, since dixon's tales of ovlr "work" sessions sounded kind o fun, and i also kind of liked the few times i have had stuff done at RN (warranty work on a rebuilt gearbox for example) & charlie let me assist and do other misc work... but in this case, there was also definite joy to be derived from toiling in one of the most pleasing working environments i have ever encountered (good equipment, all the parts you could ask for, beautiful space/ building (building for that matter!) experts all round, other rovers being worked on and driven, etc... :) note to all (especially monty and other in the new england area): thinking about parts from RN, just wanted to take this moment to reiterate never to get anything from DAP in wareham mass... when i first had my rover and didn't know about RN (and a while after i did know, and was just plain stupid) i had got parts from there and had fred monsee do some work with parts from there... absolutely every major component i sourced from DAP failed in some manner... usually incurring greater costs that the original problem... a couple examples of my getting DAPped": i got DAP springs, and within 1.5 years they were so fucked that during the frame replacement rebuild i thought the new frame was geometrically incorrect since the drive shafts would not mate properly (the front springs were totally arched, with no spring and the rear were flat) when i took these to a frame place for rearching, they said it wasn't worth it, since the metal sucked, and they would have guessed the age of the spring was more than 10 years... i had an engine rebuild done, 2 years after which, various rocker-area hardware had failed ("bad metallurgy") such that not only did i have to redo the upper engine, but my crankshaft was hosed... i could go on, but i guess this will (at least temporarily) satiate my desire to expound the evils of DAP... finally: anyone have info on the rover rally type thingy happening in maine later this month? later, jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 00:09:59 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 01:01:04 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: misc rover rantings >note to monty (and other botson area roverists): >i recently had some spare keys made by a really >good locksmith who used to have a land rover > >machina locksmith >(al kamishlan) >3 porter street >watertown ma 02127 >617-923-1683 >mobile: 617-694-3990 I'll keep him in the file but my problem isn't so much that the lock cores don't match (true they don't) but I don't even have one on the passenger side. The latch/lock mechanism appears to be bolted/rivetted from the inside of the door and so not easily replaced. The rear and driver door locks have cores but no pins, *any* key opens them. That's actually fine with me, who thinks to look for a broken core? Jory, sorry to hear about your troubles... Driving to VT is a hell of a trip for warranty work... Hadn't heard about DAP but I thought there was some (disreputable) outfit in the Dedham area. I knew about RN so I never considered any local options for parts. monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 03:51:24 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Discojap To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 9:43:53 BST Sounds like the Daily Telegraph has *really* got its knickers in a twist:-)Disco *soft top*? SWB?Balls!And since the Range Rover, or so I hear,is *the* status car in Japan along with the Jag,and sells quite happily as Range Rover why the change of name?Strike me as yet another example of Land Rover propping up the entire Rover group,as they have done since the S1 first came out.I agree it is a downgrading of the Land Rover name.If this goes on,I can see another outcry similar to the one when either Ford or GM tried to buy out British Leyland,when Baggie Thatcher was in power.They admitted they didnt want any part of the group except Land Rover.You can still see Land Rovers over here with "Keep Land Rover Britsh" stickers left over from that time.There was one *hell* of a row,and of course,the deal was blocked.My feeling,for what its worth(ie not a lot)is that if Honda want an off-roader let them build their own.We've got enough japcrap japjeeps over here as it is without turning Land Rover into another one.Makes me so spitting mad(as you may have guessed) Sorry about the soapbox,and thanks for the info Dixon. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 10:05:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 07:56:31 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Late breaking news... >Apparently, Rover has signed an agreement with Honda to rebadge the Discovery >under a Honda label and sell it in Japan. ><.....> >This is the first time that a Japanese firm has taken a foreign produced >vehicle and rebadged it with a Japanese name. I believe that Mazda takes Ford Explorers and rebadges them for sale under the Mazda nameplate, and have been doing so for several years. I see nothing wrong with rebadging as long as they don't want to muck with the internals (like puting a honda v6 in it). Keeping up sales volume some- times means doing things like this, and I would very much like to see Rover stay healthy. Just MHO. -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 11 20:21:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 11 Jun 93 18:12:05 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: New Old LandRover Owner The timing tensioner is usually the first to go. When it is on its way out, you will hear a sound on startup that sounds like bad bearings ubtil the oil pumps up the tensioner. Everything is probably OK until then. Assuming you can hear the radio over the engine & gears, many people have put a wooden shelf over the windscreen (mounts to the edges of the top). They put radios, speakers, amps, CBs & more up there. The antennal goes on the right wing. TeriAnn And You didn't think i knew the answer to the Blaupunkt question From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 01:44:18 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 01:03:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mark V Grieshaber writes: > Weren't folks (specifically you, Dixon) saying that rebuild kits for Solex > carburetors were no longer available? I just bought a rebuild kit for my > Zenith, and thought I would ask (out of curiosity) if they could get a kit > for a Solex. The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they > needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit. I would certainly be interested in hearing if the kits could actually be obtained. When I tried last summer, most places said they could get them, but when it came to produce, they couldn't. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 10:51:54 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: Solex Carb rebuild kit, maybe available... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 10:45:21 CDT In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Jun 12, 93 1:03 am > > for a Solex. The shop checked into it, and said they could, but that they > > needed the number off the Solex to get the right kit. > > I would certainly be interested in hearing if the kits could > actually be obtained. When I tried last summer, most places said > they could get them, but when it came to produce, they couldn't. I understand, and have run into the same thing before. If you want me to check, I need the number off the carb. Mark From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jun 12 13:28:05 1993 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Sat, 12 Jun 1993 19:15:25 +0100 From: Ross Subject: carb rebuild kits To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 19:15:21 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 674 Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, diagphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc... they do not include new jets however. They are availbale from mail order, direct from Demon Tweeks Hugmore Lane LLan-y-pwll Wrexham Clwyd United Kingdom LL13 9YE International phone number 44 978 664466 Fax: 44 978 664467 Exmaple of prices (from their colour catalogue, in pounds sterling, no VAT) Stromberg 175CD (Range Rover) 9.64 Weber DCOE 10.10 Ford VV 16.00 They can also supply kits for aisan, zenith, solex, pierberg, nikki etc type carbs. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 13 01:50:49 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Saturday in the bush... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1993 00:51:41 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Another Saturday has past, and the beast is some 35 miles away in Almonte where further work shall be undertaken to ready it for its safety. A fringe benefit of its new temperary home, is that it is at the site of next weekends OVLR birthday party... :-) I must admit, that towing a trailer with a dead Mini down a divided highway does have its moments. Some brave souls are happy to fly by at warp speed, while others like to hang back behind me for some unexplained reason. But alas, I am now down the three cars, two of which function, not counting a tempermental Land Rover. While finding a home for the trailer behind one friends place, through a rough field, the bouncing managed to rock the engine- radiator enough to cause the hose to blow off. Not that I really noticed at the time, as I dumped the trailer and headed off to a second friends place to play in the woods and test out some of the proposed trails for next weekends adventures. They are good trails... :-) Some can be only taken with extreme care, and robably a good bit of winching. Next weekend is going to be an occassion for a lawn chair, a case of beer, and a good site to watch the fun when it is not my turn (assuming the beast is ready). Other trails are for swb's only. Some of the turns are just too sharp for a 109 to get around the trees... Onther trails are bouncy enough, that the spare 2.25l engine wedged in the back came loose and bounced around in the back of my 109. Happily the carpet and plywood saved all from serious damage. We did manage to get one '62 swb stuck quite well, and after extracting it with a second, the over enthusiastic driver forged forward, bounced up over a large stump, and landed on the stump with a mighty crash. It now has a rather dented frame, as well as having ripped the frame support under the petrol tank mostly off. Oh well, he is a welder with the Federal Science & Tech. museum, so all is expected to be back to normal for next weekend. As for my beast, the Solex has been replaced with the Weber. Despite assurances by various people that this change over is straight forward and simple, well it is and it isn't. The air intake hone and adapter for a Solex is too large for a Weber. One needs to get the air intake adapter off of a later vehicle (something to locate...) and the throtle linkage is also wrong for the conversion. One must remove the brass bushing from the linkage and put it on the other side so you can get all of the necessary clearences for it to work correctly. When ordering the Weber, one must also remember to order the adapter as the normal bolt pattern for a Solex is about 90 degrees out. Tomorrow I guess the process of changing over the petrol tank will be undertaken. As for the silencer, they sent me the wrong one. The silencer for a swb will not cut it for a 109. Now to see how my friends in England deal with this screw-up. My fax clearly stated that the 109 was a 109, NADA Station Wagon, wit the serial number. Kind of hard in my books to make such a goof... Oh well, another in the club needs one, so this time I can unload it at my cost. I'd rather be saved the trouble... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 13 10:11:32 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 14:59:21 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Expspensive fuses > > And where do most people mount the Blaupunkt? :-) > > monty > Following the adage that British headlamps will blow in order to protect the fuse, the Blaupunkt is a most exspensive fuse. Exactly what are you trying to protect? };-) Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA 1961 Land Rover 109 1974 Norton Commando From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 14 15:13:43 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 16:02:37 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: misc rover rantings >jory asked: > >anyone have info on the rover rally type thingy happening in maine later >this month? Here is the information as I (a former Maineiac) have it: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- MID-COAST MAINE - JUNE 26TH, 27TH, 1993 "DOWNEAST" V INTERNATIONAL LANDROVER RALLY LandRover- RangeRover - Defender - Discovery - Rover cars from Canada - United States - Europe Saturday 6/26: Acadia National Park Breakfast 7-9 a.m. Searsmont, Me. Evening BBQ at beach Sunday 6/27: Airshow at Owls Head Transportation Museum, Owls Head, Me. LandRover clubs - Companies - Awards - Buy - Sell - Swap - Trade Information on "Downeast" and local accomodation contact: Myles J. Murphy, RR2, Box 84, Lincolnville, Maine 04849, U.S.A. There's also a note that the AROUND THE NEW WORLD IN 80 DAYS expedition departs the Owls Head Trans. Mus. at 4:00 p.m. on Sunday. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I wish it were in the cards for me to be there on Sunday. After all, Owls Head is only about 15 or 20 miles from the location of my 1957 series I Station Wagon (in kit form at present). If you go, say hello to Ted Howard for me. He'll probably be there with a series I wagon that looks just like mine will look someday (except the color). He may also be showing off a series I pickup truck that he picked up about two years ago. I saw that two years ago, the last time I was able to go to the show, but it was in the yard of his garage (near mine) where he had towed it. I drove to his garage in my car, where I picked up a 109 series II diesel powered pickup truck to take to the show. He had driven there in the 107 wagon. After you say hello to Ted for me, say hello to Ron and Bernie Mowry. They are from West Lebanon, Me, in the Southwest corner of the state, and I imagine still the Northeast Regional Co-ordinators of the Land Rover Owners Association USA. Then find Frank DeLangton and his sons and say hello to them for me, too. One of Frank's sons was the driver of the LandRover pictured in the Rovers North newsletter some time back which had survived a meeting with a Maine moose. (One of the few examples of Maine wildlife bigger than the mosquitos.) Steve Margolis, Cornell University, Ithaca is Gorges, NY E-Mail to Steve-Margolis@Cornell.edu From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 12:17:13 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Tuesday night activities... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 23:19:00 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Without a mighty the petrol tank of the 109 has been changed. The rusted, sludge filled tank from 1964 has been replaced with a nice new tank of a much later vintage... Replacing the tank went much smoother than could be imagined. The two recessed bolts at the fore end of the tank came out without to much difficulty (thank god), whiile the two rear bolts had to be cut off with a grinder. Overall, the entire effort took about an hour, much shorter than I had expected. Surprisingly enough, once cleaned up, the fuel guage sender actually works. I now have a general idea on how much fuel I actually have. What a change this shall be from carrying about several 20l army jerry cans to refill the one when it suddenly runs dry. Some observations... The new tanks supplied are a bit different. The replacement tank has a second hole opposite the balancer pipe and fuel siphon pipe hole. This hole is blocked off with a gasket and plate, but I wonder which model it is used for. The hole for the fuel sender is also a bit smaller. We had to cut an eighth of an inch off to widen the hole to fit the 1964 sender. A third difference is the lack of baffles inside the tank to limit the amount of fuel that sloshes around. The adapter plate for the winch was also retrieved from the dead engine. The crank nut had to be drilled off, but now I am able to fit the winch to the front of the 109 in preparation for some fun this coming weekend... :-) Rgds, Dixon '64 109 -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 12:33:15 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Merseyside and wrong parts... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:23:11 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Just a short note on the wrong silencer that I received from Merseyside. I sent them off a fax, quoting my previous fax where I described my Rover, serial number, et cetera and asking how they could have goofed in such an excellent fashion. (In fact the fax was sent off at 01:05 EST today) At 10:02am this morning I had a voice call from Dave at Merseyside who not only apologised for the error, but was shipping the correct part airmail today at no charge. the swb silencer is mine to dispose of as the cost of returning it is a wee bit high. I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their willingness to correct a problem. They have my business... I figure that one might as well give credit where it is due, as we also tend to rubbish firms that do not perform to satisfaction. As for my lwb, a petrol tank gets changed tonight. News later on describing how this effort went... Rgds, Dixon A lwb itching to get into the mud this weekend! :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 16:48:33 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 21:37:05 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: new tank dixon writes: Some observations... The new tanks supplied are a bit different. The replacement tank has a second hole opposite the balancer pipe and fuel siphon pipe hole. This hole is blocked off with a gasket and plate, but I wonder which model it is used for. The hole for the fuel sender is also a bit smaller. We had to cut an eighth of an inch off to widen the hole to fit the 1964 sender. A third difference is the lack of baffles inside the tank to limit the amount of fuel that sloshes around. might the fuel siphon pipe hole be there to connect to a second tank placed beneath the driver's (lhd) seat?? I have heard (thru this list) that one can remove the toolbox (god forbid) and stick another tank in there (does the exhaust pipe still clear???) as for the lack of baffles-this is truely UNFORTUNATE, but then again i suppose a rover is rarely subjected to side-to-side forces over a fraction of a G. rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 16 17:02:28 1993 Return-Path: To: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: new tank In-Reply-To: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu's message of Wed, 16 Jun 93 14:37:05 -0800. <9306162137.AA22265@y1.sdsc.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:52:31 PDT Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" Another possiblity for the blocked off hole in Dixon's new tank is some sort of evaporative recovery system, that tries to return unburned fumes to the fuel supply. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 03:52:34 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: tank To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 9:40:17 BST The auxiliary tank theory has my vote as well.I've actually seen a 109 so fitted,and it had a filler cap both sides.The vehicle had been built in Oz,according to its works plate,and had found its way over here. So the extra blanked off holes could well be for LH fill.Incidentally,if the"god forbid" indicates a reluctance to sit on top of ten gallons of petrol,we do it all the time!I qiute thought up till now,that LHD Rovers had their tank on the opposite side to the RHD versions.Obviously not,so one lives and learns.Doesnt bother me,though,mines a diesel:-).....Well, there must be *some* advantages! Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 05:21:52 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Tanks, tanks everywhere To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 19:30:16 CST Mike Rooth UK writes > The auxiliary tank theory has my vote as well.I've actually seen a > 109 so fitted,and it had a filler cap both sides.The vehicle had been > built in Oz,according to its works plate,and had found its way over here. This is a *Very* common modification over here, as are 75L (15 imp gal) tanks. A few years back it was also possible to obtain tanks to suit 109 hardtops which fitted in front of the rear wheels but behind the drivers/passengers seat, these were 45L (10 imp gal) tanks. Thus it was possible to carry 240+L (50 gal) of fuel. If one was lucky enough to own a late SIII V8, with constant 4x4, also sold in Oz with a 3.9 Isuzu diesel option then all of these tanks could be fitted in addition to the standard rear 70L station-wagon type tank. Of course you had to move the battery! Owners reported that the fuel range was in the order of 1500 - 2000 Miles with the diesel. With this set up LRO's could snear at owners of Jap 4x4's, Unfortunately the new 80 series Toyotas come standard over here with 190L tanks, and factory accessory tanks are avail. Still the Oz assembled Perentie 6x6 (based on the old 110/130 cab chassis) is fitted with dual 75-80L tanks under the front seats, so maybe one could..... ....... -- Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) Darwin Australia (Kadadu Country) ex 1966 SIIA 109 round roof. Currently '82 SIII V8 county wagon (350,000 + Km and nearly stuffed :-( From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 09:58:06 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Tanks&Gauges To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 15:46:22 BST Thanks for clearing that one up,Daryl,but I have a question.How are these long-range tanks fitted up vis-a-vis the fuel gauge?Are they arranged so that the auxiliaries fill the "main" tank,and when its gauge starts to read less than full,youre looking for a filling station, or are there senders on each tank so that you can switch the gauge between them,or what?This aspect of long range Land Rovering has puzzled me for some time,because it is obviously necessary to know how much fuel you have left(even if you started out with a lot) particularly,I assume,in the outback,where suddenly finding you are down to *slightly* less than ten gallons would be likely to bring on an attack of mild panic.Any ideas? Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 10:25:23 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Tanks&Gauges To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 16:11:23 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Mike Rooth asks about tanks and gauges on multiple installations. I have a tank under each front seat of my SWB (I knew there was a good reason why I'm a non-smoker). Each has a separate sender unit and fuel outlet. I have a switch on the seatbox by my ankles which is a two way petrol switch combined with a two way electrical switch. Switch to the right and the driver's fuel tank is connected to the pump and the corresponding sender to the gauge. Flip the switch and the passenger tank is used and its gauge read. I have an electric pump and switch tanks on the run if necessary, or just to check levels. The twin tanks (not electric fuel pump) were standard on the Military Lightweights, although standard procedure was to pull over to switch tanks, according to an ex-driver I know. Don't know what you do with three tanks... (invade Iraq ?? ;-)) Cheers, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 10:53:31 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 15:41:14 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: god forbid the "god forbid" comment referred to two concerns: 1) being left WITHOUT a toolbox.........NO rover should be without a toolbox, and although you could mount one elsewhere, under the sear (seat, that is) is a convenient place for it (even though it is so damned small). 2) customizing your rover's body parts and thereby rendering it "box- stock-NOT". okokok--you can argue that an additional tank is an improvement-i will listen to that-but the concept of hacking away at the aluminium bothers me. (note: this concern has been bred into my blood from years of interest in older british bikes-bikes that are frequently hacked/chopped/or "bitsa-ed" away from their original state- perhaps i should just hop off of my (imaginary) ajs 7R and let it be.) rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 17 20:27:35 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: tanks, gauges and the meaning of a stuff up To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 10:37:14 CST In response to Mike Rooth's questions the answer is ... yes? The small tanks which fit in front of the rear wheels do not normally have provision for gauges but I'm sure you could fit them if you really needed to. On my old '66 SIIA I had two tanks with gauges and two without. Fortunatly this vehicle was not equiped with fuel return lines to the tank. I used two 3-way 3/8" LPG ball control valves. These are much more expensive than the common brass type but are infinitely better. They dont leak, are made of stainless and use a highly machined ball in a nylon socket as the control mechanism, whats more they are rebuildable. These have the added advantage that fuel flow can be completely stopped. Thus it was possible to set up with only 2 control units and a Y piece joining them on the fuel pump side. Each control unit had 3 positions Tank 1, Tank 2 and Off. When one tank was selected on one valve the other was left in the off position. Sounds much more complicated than it was. The problem with this was that you had to manually select both tank and gauge. Thus it was possible to have the gauge reading tank 2 whilst you happily emptied tank 1, whilst marvelling at the remarkable fuel consumption. After doing this a couple of times one quickly learnt to empty the tanks without gauges first so that once fuel became a concern you at least had some idea of how much was left. The situation on the SIII V8 is both more complex and more idiot resistant. As the V8 has fuel return lines to the tanks I didnt relish the thought of twice as many control valves. The solution came in the form of Pollack fuel change over solenoids. These electrically operated units are available with 3/8" and 1/4" lines in a common valve block and can switch between 2 tanks. The Wagon has 3 tanks fitted all with senders, so... I have two fitted, one selects between the rear tank and the fr5ont auxillaries, the second between the left and right aux. The neat trick is that the same switch which changes the fuel over can also switch the gauge unit over. You simply get a double 2-way switch from any electronics supply store (like tandys). On one side you provide the 12v supply to the change over valve and the other the sender connections. You then mount the switches in the dash board such that one toggles from left to right an the other up and down and hey presto you always know which tank you're using and how much fuel is left. Of course you still have to remember to go to the filling station. :-( -- | | Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) \ / Menzies School of Health Research \__/ P.O. Box 41096 || << Casuarina N.T. 0811 _-*_|\---------------------- * << Australia / \ || << Voice : 61_89_228196 \_.--._/ /||\ Fax : 61_89_275187 v * || o / || \ From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 10:35:02 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Tool boxes and batteries To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 16:26:28 BST Its a good job youve not got a 11A diesel,Dushin,with the original bettery arrangement (battery).Not only would it not be possible to fit a reserve tank,you wouldnt have toolbox either!They were fitted with two 6v batteries,one under the bonnet,the other guess where. Cant for the life of me think WHY though.Fortunately mine had been "semi-rationalised" bfore I bought it and now has a thumping great 12v under the bonnet,*and* I've got my toolbox back.I say "semi" because some nerd had made up the battery leads from 440v earth cable,which got decidedly warm on start up each morning,due to the inadequate cross-section of the cable strands to take the current. It ended when I looked out of the windshield one morning while grinding the motor over and thought"hello,its got a bit foggy" followed by "this fog smells funny......aaaargh" and a mad scramble to put the fire out.Burnt out the cable and the starter solenoid. Start of a long saga of "nerd correction measures"that was. Trouble is the toolbox isnt big enough to carry al the tools I like to carry,but then I worry too much as well.Mind you I havent got to Dixon's state yet....carrying a spare engine:-) Like you I would be *very* reluctant to hack the panels about.Took a good three months to pluck up enough bottle to cut holes in the hardtop to put the rear windows in.Turned out that was the *easy* bit of *that* operation.*Much* better visibility though. Seen locally....1971 S111 petrol 88" with 6.00 by16 tyres on the front,and 7.50 by 16 on the back.Think about it. Cheers Mike Rooth :wq :wq From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 12:13:28 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:25:55 -1812 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1993 11:25:55 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Land Rover List 6/18/93 Here is a collected list of suppliers, dealers, and such pertaining to the Land Rover. Please comment as to any typos and especially any comments you would like to pass along as to the various suppliers listed (so we can have an annotated list). Greg - hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Thanks to - Paul Anderson - ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com Lee Fisher - leefi@microsoft.com Mark V Grieshaber - mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Bruce Harding - Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com Jory (last, first ?) - jory@Athena.MIT.EDU Dixon Kenner - dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Mike Rooth - M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Ross (last, first ?) - smb002@cent1.lancs.ac.uk R. Glenn Stauffer - stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu Teriann J. Wakeman - twakeman@apple.com ******LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA)****** ---------- Atlantic British Ltd Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive Mechanicville, NY 12118 (800) 533-2210 Orders only (518) 664-6169 Technical questions (518) 664-6641 Fax Free catalog Lots of aftermarket parts Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized ---------- B. Jones & Associates (Brian Jones) Import/Export Trading 23 N. West Street, Allentown, PA 18102 (215) 437-6125 This company imports Land Rovers from England to order. Generally, they handle pre-1968 vehicles, Series II and IIa 88" 3-door wagons, 109" 5-door wagons, 2-door pickups, and 3-door wagons. They occasionally bring in Series I 80" or 86" soft or hard-top vehicles. Other specialized models can be ordered. (prices from 1.3.93) Series IIa 109 gas $6300 diesel $6100 Series II 109 gas $6100 diesel $5900 ---------- CARS Camarillo, CA (800) 882-1349 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. 1043 Kaiser Rd. SW Olympia, WA 98502 parts - (206) 866-2254 sales - (206) 866-2381 Bruce Harding writes: "When dealing with these folks you need to verify costs and availabilities over the phone or you may be surprised. Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special' made." He goes on to say: "After all this happened I sent out a message to the group asking where people purchased their parts and NOBODY replied they used this outfit. I then looked back over my invoice numbers to discover they issue an average of 9 invoices a week over an 8 month period... and several of these were return/backorder invoices of mine. I can't believe they sell many LR's as their prices are extremely high, although their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business." Lee Fischer says: "I would go to great lengths to get parts/service from any other Rover company that I've dealt with instead of these folks." ---------- D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc. 7 Kendrick Road Wareham, MA 02571 (508) 291-1311 Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories - warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling Jory reports some major problems with this outfit: "absolutely every major component I sourced from DAP failed in some manner... usually incurring greater costs than the original problem..." In particular he had bad experience with road springs and rocker area hardware. ---------- Jim "Scotty" Howett (510) 686-2255 Teriann Wakeman says: "He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do a mail order." ---------- Machina Locksmith Al Kamishlan 3 porter street Watertown, MA 02127 617-923-1683 mobile: 617-694-3990 Mainly of interest to you in the Eastern half of MA - Jory says that this guy is a good locksmith and used to have a Rover. ---------- Nisonger Victory Gardens, NJ (800) 431-2496 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog Restoration program: - Customer must sign up (no cost) - Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash out", you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases based on the amount you have purchased up to that point. ---------- Rover's West Eight Parts 4060 Michigan Tucson, AZ 85714 (602) 748-8115 ---------- Roverworks - New York 800-999-6402 Land Rovers available: 1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt Base Model 88 $17,000 109 Regular $19,500 109 Safari $24,000 Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the UK. Prices start at $5,000) (prices from 1.3.93) 1967 88 hardtop (VG) $ 8,000 1961 109 Safari $19,000 1967 109 Safari $12,000 Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts. ---------- Doug Shipman 503-252-5566 Bruce Harding says that this guy has a lot of used Land Rover parts. He reports that many local people have used his services with good results. ******LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITAIN)****** ---------- A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd The Showground The Cliff Matlock Derbyshire DE4 5EW Tel 0629 584499 Fax 0629 584498 ---------- Demon Tweeks Hugmore Lane LLan-y-pwll Wrexham Clwyd United Kingdom LL13 9YE International phone number 44 978 664466 Fax: 44 978 664467 Ross says: "Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, diaphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc... they do not include new jets however." These kits are available form the above company. They may have Solex rebuild kits. ---------- Famous Four Tattershall Way Fairfield Industrial Estate Louth Lincolnshire LN11 0YA Tel 0507 609444 Fax 0507 609555 ---------- John Craddock Ltd. 70-76 North Street Bridgtown Cannock Staffordshire WS11 3AZ Tel 0543 577207 or 505408 Fax 0543 504818 ---------- Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd. Bridge Industrial Estate Speke Hall Road Speke (Nr. Airport) Liverpool L24 9HE tel 051 486 8636 fax 051 486 5986 Dixon reported a problem with an order in that they sent him the wrong part (silencer) - but he says that they cleared that up promptly and sent him a new one (by air their cost) and let him keep the other part. "I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their willingness to correct a problem. They have my business... " ---------- P.A.Blanchard & Co. Clay Lane Shiptonthorpe York YO4 3RU Tel 0430 872765 Fax 0430 872777 Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit civilian versions ******MAGAZINES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS****** LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int. 2323 Randolph Avenue New Jersey 07001 Cost $70 US/year also this address LRO Publications LTD. The Hollies, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1BZ UK ******LAND ROVER CLUBS****** Land Rover of North America (LRONA) PO BOX 6836 OAKLAND CA 94603 USA. Editor - Brad Blevins 2998 Atlantic St Concord, CA 94518 USA voice or fax (510) 687-1188. ******LAND ROVER DEALERS****** Andrew Cadillac Company (615) 373-3800 Maryland Farms Brentwood, TN 37024 Aristocrat Motor Company, Inc (913) 677-3300 9400 West 65th Street Shawnee Mission, KS 66203 Ascot Imported Cars, Inc. (412) 741-3300 418 Walnut Street Sewickley, PA 15143 Autohaus Tischer, Inc (301) 498-7400 3225 Ft. Meade Road Laurel, MD 20707 Automaster (802) 985-8482 Route 7 Box 220 Shelburne, VT 05482 Baker Motor of Charleston, Inc. (803) 577-3885 1081 Morrison Drive Charleston, SC 29403 Barney Garver Motors (713) 869-4855 7025 Katy Road Houston, TX 77024 Bauer Motors (714) 971-5550 2025 South Manchester Avenue Anaheim, CA 92802 Baxter Chysler-Plymouth, Inc. (402) 493-7800 11910 West Dodge Road Omaha, NE 68154 Benson Motor Company (504) 522-2365 2001 St. Charles Avenue New Orleans, LA 70130 Berndt Classic Imports (414) 543-3000 2400 South 108th Street Milwaukee, WI 53227 Bill Jacobs Motorsport, Inc. (708) 357-1200 1564 West Ogden Avenue Naperville, IL 60566 Bluff City British Cars, Inc. (901) 743-4422 1810 B Getwell Road Memphis, TN 38111 Bob Moore Cadillac, Inc. (405) 232-0381 400 North Walker Oklahoma City, OK 73102 Brandywine Motor Cars, Inc. (215) 696-1220 715 Auto Park Boulevard West Chester, PA 19382 British Motor Car Distributors, LTD (415) 776-7700 901 Van Ness Avenue San Francisco, CA 94109 Carousel Automobiles (612) 544-9591 8989 Wayzata Boulevard Minneapolis, MN 55426 Chaisson Motor Cars (702) 871-1010 2333 South Decatur Boulevard Las Vegas, NV 89102 Cherry Hill Imports, Corp. (609) 665-5370 2261 Route 70 West Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 Cole European (415) 935-2653 2103 North Main Street Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Continental Cars Limited (808) 537-5365 1069 South Beretania Street Honululu, HI 96814 Don Rasmussen Company (503) 226-0380 2001 SouthWest Jefferson Street Portland, OR 97201 Don Snell Buick, Inc. (800) 231-3445 11400 North Central Expressway Dallas, TX 75243 Fields Range Rover (407) 695-9100 265 North Highway 17-92 Longwood, FL 32750 Foreign Motors West, Inc. (508) 655-5350 235 North Main Street Natick, MA 01760 Frankel Cadillac Company (410) 484-8800 201 Reisterstown Road Baltimore, MD 21208 Fred Lavery Company (313) 645-5930 499 South Hunter Boulevard Birmingham, MI 48009 Frederick Cadillac, LTD (206) 728-7900 2301 6th Avenue Seattle, WA 98121 Gengras Motor Cars (203) 522-6134 One Weston Park Road Hartford, CT 06120 Great Britains (215) 443-5900 Old York Road & Penn Turnpike Willow Grove, PA 19090 Gregg Motors (805) 682-2000 402 South Hope Avenue Santa Barbara, CA 93105 Grubbs European Motors, Inc. (817) 560-9000 2900 Alta Mere Drive Fort Worth, TX 76116 Gunn Infinity/Range Rover (512) 824-1272 750 N.E. Loop 410 San Antonio, TX 78217 H.B.L., Inc. (703) 442-8200 8545 Leesburg Pike Vienna, VA 22180 Haron Motor Sales (209) 237-5533 2222 Ventura Avenue Fresno, CA 93721 Haywood-Clarke Rover (804) 379-3510 11650 Midlothian Pike Midlothian, VA 23113 Hendrick Imports (704) 535-0885 6950 East Independence Boulevard Charlotte, NC 28227 Hennessy Cadillac, Inc. (404) 261-5700 3040 Piedmont Road Atlanta, GA 30305 Holiday Automotive, Inc. (806) 359-2886 4600 Canyon Drive Amarillo, TX 79109 Holts House of Vehicles, Inc. (716) 334-0880 3925 West Henrietta Road Rochester, NY 14623 Hornburg Jaguar, Inc. (213) 272-7737 9176 Sunset Boulevard Los Angeles, CA 90069 Hornburg Jaguar, Inc. (213) 453-3377 3300 Olympic Boulevard Santa Monica, CA 90404 Hubacher Cadillac, Inc. (916) 929-2777 #1 Cadillac Drive Sacramento, CA 95823 Jack Kaplan's, LTD (401) 461-2000 206 Elmwood Avenue Providence, RI 02907 Keller Motor Car Company (518) 785-4197 1111 Troy-Schnectady Road Latham, NY 12110 Knauz Continental Autos, Inc. (708) 234-1700 1044 North Western Avenue Lake Forest, IL 60045 Ladd Hanford Jaguar-Volvo (717) 272-9500 2247 West Cumberland Street Lebanon, PA 17042 Larry Dimmitt Cadillac, Inc. (813) 797-7070 25191 U.S. Highway 19 North Clearwater, FL 34623 Leith, Inc. (919) 876-5432 5601 Capital Boulevard Raleigh, NC 27629 Lyle Pearson Company, Inc. (208) 377-3900 351 Auto Drive Boise, ID 83709 Midwestern Auto Group (614) 889-2571 5016 Post Road Dublin, OH 43017 Newport Imports, Inc. (714) 722-4000 3000 West Pacific Coast Highway Newport Beach, CA 92663 Palm Beach Motor Cars (407) 659-6206 915 South Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Paul Miller, Inc. (201) 575-7750 250 U.S. Route 46 Parsippany, NJ 07054 Pepe Autos Ltd. (914) 949-4000 50 Bank Street White Plains, NY 10606 Phillips Oldsmolbile, Inc. (804) 499-3771 4949 Virginia Beach Boulevard Virginia Beach, VA 23462 Pioneer Centres (619) 695-3000 9020 Miramar Road San Diego, CA 92126 Pioneer's Land Rover Centre (303) 920-9888 109 Aspen Airport Business Center Aspen, CO 81611 Pioneer Centres, Inc. (303) 751-1500 2950 Havana Street Aurora, CO 80014 Plaza Motor Company (314) 569-1311 11830 Olive Street Road Creve Coeur, MO 63141 Prestige Motors, Inc. (201) 265-7800 405 Route 17 Paramus, NJ 07652 R.A.B. Motors, Inc. (415) 454-0582 540 Francisco Boulevard West San Rafael, CA 94901 Land Rover Land (516) 674-8500 350 Glen Head Road Glen Head, NY 11545 Range Rover of Darien (203) 655-7451 1335 Post Road Darien, CT 06820 Range Rover-Clevland (216) 932-9460 3020 Mayfield Road Cleveland Heights, OH 44118 Red Noland Cadillac, Inc. (719) 633-4633 1260 Motor City Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80906 Riverside Motor, Inc. (501) 666-9457 1403 Rebsamen Road Little Rock, AR 72202 San Jose British Motors (408) 246-7600 4040 Stevens Creek Boulevard San Jose, CA 95129 Sandia Imports (505) 884-0066 3400 Menaul Boulevard NorthEast Albuquerque, NM 87107 Schneider & Nelson, Inc. (908) 389-1000 270 Highway No. 36 West Long Branch, NJ 07764 Scott Motor Company (702) 826-0661 2401 South Virginia Street Reno, NV 89502 Scottsdale Jaguar, LTD (602) 990-9000 6925 East McDowell Road Scottsdale, AZ 85257 Shelton Imports, Inc. (813) 263-6070 850 North Tamiami Trail Naples, FL 33940 South Bay Autohaus (310) 534-3333 3233 Pacific Coast Highway Torrance, CA 90505 Symes Cadillac, Inc. (818) 795-3381 3475 East Colorado Boulevard Pasadena, CA 91107 Terry York Motor Cars (818) 990-9870 15800 Ventura Boulevard Encino, CA 91436 Tom Williams Motors, Inc. (205) 252-9512 2200 3rd Avenue South Birmingham, AL 35233 Tom Wood Range Rover (317) 848-7447 3473 East 96th Street Indianapolis, IN 46240 Volkswagen Intermountain - Range Rover (800) 748-4689 3711 South State Street Salt Lake City, UT 84115 Warren Henry Automobiles, Inc. (305) 654-3900 20802 NorthWest 2nd Avenue Miami, FL 33169 Willians Ford Sales, Inc. (513) 891-0500 9260 Montgomery Road Cincinnati, OH 45242 Zumbach Sports Cars, LTD (212) 582-5613 629 West 54th Street New York, NY 10019 Range Rover on Bay (416) 928-9096 76 Davenport Road Toronto, Ontario M5R 1H3 Budd's Imported Cars (416) 845-1443 513 Speers Road Oakvill, Ontario L6K 2G4 Automobiles Elegante (514) 374-6550 4350 Boulevard Metropolitain Est. Montreal, Quebec H1S 1A2 David Morris Fine Cars, LTD (403) 484-9000 17210 103rd Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5S 1N1 Lone Star Inc. (403) 253-1333 100 Glendeer Circle, SouthEast Calgary, Alberta T2H 2S8 MCL Motor Cars (604) 738-5577 1730 Burrard Street Vancouver, British Columbia V6J 3G7 Chapman Motors Limited (902) 453-2110 3363 Kempt Road Halifax, Nova Scotia B3K 4X5 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 18 12:33:51 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 93 17:21:01 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: newly cut holes mike- as you know, i too have a "blindsides hardtop" on nigel.....here in the states (in ny state at least) the rules for commercial vs. passenger vehicles are not quite as absurd as in the motherland (actually, they are- but for some reason they do not apply-supposedly, ANY vehicle with a "removable top" is supposed to be registered as commercial, whereas only permanant tops and soft tops are permitted to be registered as passenger vehicles.....somehow the big-little brother (governor mario cuomo) has failed to realize that a rover top can be removed so easily, and he allows rovers to fall into the same classification as jeeps-ie passenger vehicles. i am not so sure how they'd treat a 109 pickup, though...just tell the lady at DMV "it is just like a jeep" and they'll never know..)-anyway, i read with angst about your cutting windows into your blindsides (and sympathized with your commercial vs. passenger woes) and am now releived to find that it took three full months at the bottle to work up the balls to do it. i am also sure that the extra visibility paysoff (having near ly trashed several new lexus' at the hands of impatient commuters who cannot wait for nigel to get back into the right lane where he belongs). hope (and trust) it looks stock, anyway, rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 21 11:10:18 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: new tank From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 20:48:43 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > as for the lack of baffles-this is truely UNFORTUNATE, but then again i > suppose a rover is rarely subjected to side-to-side forces over a fraction > of a G. Friday, I would have agreed with you. Today, after this weekend's jaunt into the unfrozen forest I do. I went over enough rocks, roots, and general non-flat terrain to get a good portion of the contents in the petrol tank airborn within it. The vertical and horizontal lurches can be quite something. It will probably take a day or so to recover enough to write up the weekend fun. Oh did we get stuck... The Saab pull was also amusing, though some sleeping participants were unimpressed when we started that one at 1:30am. Rgds Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 21 11:42:45 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: god forbid From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 20:55:59 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > 1) being left WITHOUT a toolbox.........NO rover should be without > a toolbox, and although you could mount one elsewhere, under the sear > (seat, that is) is a convenient place for it (even though it is so > damned small). One could build quite a list. If you are going off-road a tuggum strap, chain, hooks etc. are also major requirements. At least where we go... :-) I always keep a towing cable in all of my vehicles, but then again I carry most of a spare car with me anyway... :-) > 2) customizing your rover's body parts and thereby rendering it "box- > stock-NOT". I would, and actually am, going to customise the front bumper on my 109. Off shall come the stock one, and on shall go one made of 6" channel steel. Three Rovers got a bit near to trees this week. At even very slow speeds the ends of the front bumper bent like a pretzel and were a pain, especially when that section of bumper is driven into the tire. The replacement will be a bolt on job, as welding a new bumper on seems to be rather final... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 03:29:41 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Lifeboat To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 9:22:06 BST .......Carry most of a spare car...... Heh heh,picture Dixon in a 109" with a Mini neatly stowed on davits on the stern...:-):-) Mike From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 05:29:11 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: heavy bumpers To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 11:01:26 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca: > I .... going to customise the front bumper on my 109. Off shall come the sto > one, and on shall go one made of 6" channel steel.....very slow speeds the en > of the front bumper bent like apretzel and were a pain, especially when that > section of bumper is driven into the tire. Yes, I know what you mean. I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too. Do bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame when you hit something. Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware. Cheers, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jun 22 11:18:52 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 93 16:03:52 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: taxes mike- 1) on the contrary, "blindsides" hardtops seem to be the odd bird-i have only seen 1 (nigel). safari tops (with skylights, heat deflector, and sliding windows) seem to be slightly less common than regular hardtops (sans skylights and heat deflector, but with sliding side windows). softops also appear to be quite rare these days (in these parts)....but in my opinion no hardtop is as much fun to drive about in than a softop with the sides and rear rolled up in the summer months. 2) as for taxes and registration fees.....they vary from state to state, but in ny they are dependent upon several factors-type of registration, vehicle weight, and cost. it is difficult to decipher just what the charges are from looking at my registration (one just pays the bill and gets on with it) as there is an "annual charge" figure as well as an "amount paid" figure (the latter, of course, being the bigger of the two). furthermore, in this state over the past several years there have been many changes to the system as they struggle to raise more funds (that the state claims is needed for highway improvement-but we all THOUGHT that was what all that extra gas tax was going for........). as far as i can tell this is the breakdown: flat rate for registration: as of 5/92 it was $17.25 (for one of my vehicles registered passenger, not a rover but the same weight, roughly), but as of 7/92 it was $20.75 (nigel, registered as a passenger rig)-go figure(?). these are annual figures, incidentally, and you pay double this for a two year registration (required in this state-supposedly cuts down on paper work for them, but they upped the rate at the same time as they made this change-the less for more phenonmenon). for commercial plates, the figure as of 7/90 (which i believe corresponded to the 5/92 figure above-ie it probably went up by 7/92) was $30.00. on top of this you pay extra for a vehicle being registered for the first time . this depends upon the price paid for the vehicle, or its "blue book" value, whichever is less (nice guys!). there is no blue book value for a 1960 land rover (and probably not for any others either) so they just had to take my word for it (and you can probably guess what i told them.....). i think you might also pay extra "fees" that are not disclosed on my reg. they might be based upon weight (?), or they might be a flat fee. these fees are the states way of raising extra money without having to say that the cost of registering your vehicle went up..... i do suppose i should quit complaining, because you do seem to have it much worse than we do wrt the TAXMAN. condolances, rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 04:01:57 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Lifeboat From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:47:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > .......Carry most of a spare car...... > Heh heh,picture Dixon in a 109" with a Mini neatly stowed on davits > on the stern...:-):-) Give me half a chance and a Moke... :-) Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 04:12:50 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: heavy bumpers From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1993 23:28:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Steve Methley writes: > Yes, I know what you mean. I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too. > bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light > guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame > when you hit something. Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware. I am aware of the problems inherent with changing to a *solid* front bumper, thus the necessary design requirement that any replacement be bolt on for a quick change over depending on the application. In the bush, a solid front bumper is a requirement for the jarring into trees and other sundry things that I should avoid. When in the bush, there is also the need for some sort of solid mounting piece for the pto winch, hooks for chain and tow straps for vehicle extracation. I see no need to needlessly destroy a fine LR bumper in our regular foreys into the unfrozen tundra when a temperary replacement would suit the situation to a far more useful extent. Maybe it is being a bit spoiled by having access to land that we can really play and push our vehicles to the limit. "Tread Lightly" on this land is certainly not the operational view considering the canals we have churned out in sections. We have managed to bury our Rovers past the frames in attempts to ford beaver dams, bog, rock faces etc. (other ventures we do take great attention to leaving a little a trace as possible on our passage, we are not lunatic environmental terrorists...). We have vehicles that were designed to handle horrible conditions, and some of us enjoy seeing what these limits may be without damaging our vehicles. As for this eveings efforts, the dead engine out of the 109 has been stripped to the bare block in preparation of a complete rebuilt. I note that the "Made in China" engine stand will not mount a Land Rover block, so a game of blocks of wood and frequent turning was required to strip the block. Our only stupidity was to try and drive the pistons out from the bottom. We nicked the two centre pistons quite well when they hit the flange before we got our act together. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 09:26:50 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: bumpers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 15:16:49 BST Dixon, I'm afraid I dont follow your reasoning here.If you clout something, be it in bush or backstreet,and clout it hard enough,the bumper will bend.if the bumper is so strong it *wont* bend,something else will. Like the front chassis leg.Similarly with winch mounting points.Well, not exactly,but the same principal.How about straightening the bent bumper and using *that* off-road (it already bolts on) and getting another for best?At least that way everything stays within the design parameters.Trouble with every part being of equal strength is you get the Parson's dog-cart syndrome.Carriagemaker biult the Parson a dog cart to this principle,it went for years,and finally all parts failed together,and it collapsed in a heap of dust!History doesnt record who M was the most surprised,the Parson or the horse. Cheers Mike was the most surprised,the Parson or the horse. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 09:58:01 1993 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:41:19 +0100 From: Ross Subject: bumpers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 15:41:35 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 84 How much are new bumpers out there anyway - they're only about 20 pounds over here! From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 10:46:59 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: exhausting To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:35:41 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Does anyone else with a swb softtop have problems with the exhaust gases being sucked back in thro' the open rear canvas door? When I travel on the open road I can smell exhaust fumes if I have the rear flap/door open; no fumes if I don't. Off-road there's no problem either. If I also put the sides up the problem disappears too. So it seems to me that there is some swirling effect, similar to that found on estate cars where exhaust fumes/road grime etc is thrown back into the back of the vehicle. BTW the exhaust is a shortened RR one exiting in a 2 inch pipe behind the nearside (this is UK) wheel. Anyone experienced the same, or better still have a solution? Cheers, Steve. V8 Lightweight From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 10:53:20 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Bits and Panels To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:44:06 BST Ross, Which reminds me,talking of bumpers,did you get your replacement panels from Craddocks? Any good? Mike From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 11:16:08 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Exhausting To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 17:05:27 BST Steve, I get this effect on my hardtop,the back surface *always* has a layer of diesel on it when I clean it(Oh god,should I have admitted that I clean it?)My tailpipe comes out behind the offside rear wheel.I reckon the only way I could get rid of it would be to somehow get the tailpipe to exhaust at the back,mebbe pointing down towards the road.Or maybe just an elbow on the existing pipe to deflect the gases down would do.I think some Halfords type shops used to sell chrome tailpipe "trims" that did this.If the gases hit the road,I reckon that the "wash" from the mudflaps would make them clear the vehicle.Well its a thought. Cheers Mike From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 11:19:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 16:10:18 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: exhausting Steve- Although it has been quite sometime since I've been in a softop (the farm rig was long ago converted to a hardtop, unfortunately) I do recall this rear-entry exhaust phenomenon quite well. It may be unavoidable but- -does your exhaust exit from the side or the rear? -if it exits from the side does the pipe extend to the outside of the wheelwell? -does this thing pass emmissions inspection? Only got two solutions for ya, neither is to be taken seriously- 1) Make yourself an elaborate set of fins and spoilers to alter the aerodynamics (ie lack of) on your rover. 2) Slow down. oh well, ya might have to live with this one. rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 23 13:58:18 1993 Return-Path: From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: heavy bumpers To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 93 11:49:00 MDT In-Reply-To: <5HVk6B1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "dixon kenner" at Jun 22, 93 11:28 pm Yea, but those range rover bumpers suck when yoneed to use a jack. I am thinking aboutbuilding a HD rear bumper form my RR so I can us my sheepherders jack, and carry some extra fuel. The one good point with the light bumpers is that they beat back into shape fairly easily. Russ Burns deranged rover > > Steve Methley writes: > > > Yes, I know what you mean. I have a heavy bumper on the front of mine too. > > bear in mind however the LR designers knew perfectly well that their light > > guage open section bumpers were going to bend - this saves bending the frame > > when you hit something. Just a word of warning in case you weren't aware. > > I am aware of the problems inherent with changing to a *solid* > front bumper, thus the necessary design requirement that any > replacement be bolt on for a quick change over depending on the > application. In the bush, a solid front bumper is a requirement > for the jarring into trees and other sundry things that I should > avoid. When in the bush, there is also the need for some sort of > solid mounting piece for the pto winch, hooks for chain and tow > straps for vehicle extracation. > > I see no need to needlessly destroy a fine LR bumper in our regular > foreys into the unfrozen tundra when a temperary replacement would > suit the situation to a far more useful extent. > > Maybe it is being a bit spoiled by having access to land that we > can really play and push our vehicles to the limit. "Tread > Lightly" on this land is certainly not the operational view > considering the canals we have churned out in sections. We have > managed to bury our Rovers past the frames in attempts to ford > beaver dams, bog, rock faces etc. (other ventures we do take great > attention to leaving a little a trace as possible on our passage, > we are not lunatic environmental terrorists...). We have vehicles > that were designed to handle horrible conditions, and some of us > enjoy seeing what these limits may be without damaging our > vehicles. > > As for this eveings efforts, the dead engine out of the 109 has > been stripped to the bare block in preparation of a complete > rebuilt. I note that the "Made in China" engine stand will not > mount a Land Rover block, so a game of blocks of wood and frequent > turning was required to strip the block. Our only stupidity was to > try and drive the pistons out from the bottom. We nicked the two > centre pistons quite well when they hit the flange before we got > our act together. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 01:47:02 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: bumpers From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 19:09:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > I'm afraid I dont follow your reasoning here.If you clout something, > be it in bush or backstreet,and clout it hard enough,the bumper will > bend.if the bumper is so strong it *wont* bend,something else will. Very true, but in the bush, when you do hit something it will be at under 5mph usually. Where there are obstacles, one tends to go fairly slowly. The standard LR bumper will not hold very well at these speeds (well, maybe a bit faster...) considering the mass behind. The chap who will make it for me, is well aware of this problem and will make it in a fashion so it will bend over a certain speed. Part of the method behind my madness is that my front bumper thus far is in excellent shape. I would like to keep it this way, thus the idea of a heavier replacement for the woods. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 01:47:16 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Technical advice sought... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 20:35:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Looking through my library of books, I seem to be missing the popular title "Tuning your Land Rover". This book, like that other popular title "Tuning your Mini" details how to turn your stodgy Land Rover into a lean, mean racing machine (at least in the muskeg... :-)). As this title is unobtainable, probably because it doesn't exist, yet, I must fall upon my fingertips and seek the advice of the list on how to proceed with my diabolical plans. I wish to rebuild the dead 2.25l engine into something that truly purrs. To this end, I shall have the crank balanced, should probably purchase four new pistons and have them balanced too. What other bits and pieces should really be replaced, or modified/ addressed to end up with an engine that will not only function in an excellent fashion, but shall last a long while. I figure that if I am going to go to the effort to rebuild an engine, that I should do it right. Comments? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 06:35:13 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Engine Rebuild To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 12:27:54 BST Dixon, The first comment that occurred to me when I read about your project was one that TeriAnn made some time ago,viz,that the 2.25 engine is seriously overbuilt anyway.The second is that it all depends on the depth of your pocket,the length of time you are prepared to spend,and what you want out of it.Long life (which you will probably get anyway) increased power etc. All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running, and smooth,no matter what age.Balancing the crank (and I suppose the pistons)can do no harm,but is it worth the extra cost?I would suggest that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be a worthwhile thing to do,resulting in lack of valve seat regression,and hence,longer life.Weber or similar carb?New timing chain and tensioner.Certainly a complete bottom end rebuild,crank regrind,big end and main shells,thrusts, oil seals etc,but you were going to do that anyway.It *is* nice spending someone elses money,even in imagination:-) One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs, they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went particularly after you spent all that money. Just a thought Cheers Mike From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 07:19:51 1993 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:12:51 +0100 From: Ross Subject: Lean Mean What? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 13:13:10 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1677 Dixon, What do you want from your 2.25? Do you want to keep it original in every respect? If so, you will burden yourself with poor performance and poor economy for the rest of its working life, as a direct result of its ancient and rather poor design. The only thing it has going for it, is that its solid and extremely tolerant of wear and bad working conditions. Balancing the crankshaft may improve matters, but where I come from, this operation requires copious quantities of cash and will never achieve the smoothness of a 5 bearing unit. However, if you want to keep the thing 'stock' then this is an option you will ahave to consider. Changing the original carb for a Weber. A popular conversion which saps performance to improve mpg (especially at the top end). So if you're looking for a 'lean mean racing machine' (as specified) then forget the Weber carb. No, to achieve truely great performance from a two and a quarter, there is really only one thing that you can possibly do and that is to modify it. Buy a performance camshaft and a turbocharger and the old lump will be an even match for a normally aspirated V8. A new camshaft will cost you around a hundred pounds, but I'm not sure about the turbo. I have a price at home if you are really interested or I can give you the address of a couple of companies that will supply. As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful supply. So, are you ready for a turbo? :) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 07:44:29 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Muscle Rover To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 13:36:15 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Ross asks Dixon: > So, are you ready for a turbo? :) Surely you mean twin turbos, of course the second is carried as a spare in Dixon's usual manner....... Maybe the new heavy bumper should be augmented with side skirts just to keep this baby on the ground ;-) Cheers, Steve. V8=waytogo! From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:26:48 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:11:14 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: RE: Engine Rebuild > Subj: Engine Rebuild > > Dixon, > > All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running, > and smooth,no matter what age.Balancing the crank (and I suppose the > pistons)can do no harm,but is it worth the extra cost?I would suggest > that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be a worthwhile etc.... Another possibility is shaving as much as 1/8" off of the head itself. Adjustments will then have to be made for push rods and valve clearances, but it's cheap and easy to do (relativly). > One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs, > they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went > particularly after you spent all that money. > Just a thought > Cheers > Mike Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:28:26 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:15:41 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Cc: TURBO@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Turbo > Subj: Lean Mean What? > > > Dixon, > > > As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that > its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real > problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry > that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful > supply. > > So, are you ready for a turbo? :) This also increases the likelihodd of a snapping axels. Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 12:50:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:35:19 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: fresh air Steve- Your fresh air idea reminded me of an x-housemates solution to a similar problem. he was a carpenter-extremely handy with drills and saws, etc- who was the proud owner of a rotting vw bug. the rocker panels were in particularly bad shape, and since he was dealing with unibody construction he decided he'd best slow the corrosive process. he drilled small holes at six inch intervals along the rocker panels, threaded gease nipples into each one, and packed those suckers full of grease. winter came around, he turned on the heat, and got heavliy dosed with airborne petroleum distillates (the rocker panels are the conduits for heat in a vw bug!). his solution: he mounted an old horn-like instrument (i think it may have been a broken trombone) to the front wheel well and ran a large diameter hose into the triangle window such that it blew copious quantities of fresh air into his face. he claims to have had the car for several years thereafter. musta been quite the sight, rdushin/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 16:38:43 1993 Return-Path: To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... In-Reply-To: dixon's message of Wed, 23 Jun 93 17:35:58 -0800. Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 14:25:38 PDT Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" If you're going to do this right, you should do the following to the crank: crack test/magnaflux, scrap if there's a crack hot tank, remove oil plugs, brush clean passages shot peen grind and micro polish balance (with flywheel, rods, pistons, optionally clutch) chamfer oil holes to improve lubrication There's a place that I've used that does truly amazing rocker arm work - they restore assemblies for all sorts of cars. I've had one done for my Triumph, where the shaft was quite worn - they repaird to better than new for less than the parts would have cost. Call Name: Rocker Arm Specialists Address: 19841 Hirsch Street Anderson, CA 96007 Phone: (916) 378-1075 Match the ports on the manifold and head; if you want to get fancy, read one of David Vizard's books on head modification and try your hand. Check your oil pump and replace if necessary. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jun 24 16:53:00 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 24 Jun 93 17:39:48 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Intro to Sworking I did the first major work on my new old LR two weekends ago. I had planned on replacing four shocks, two front springs, a few gaskets and seals, and maybe do some electrical work. I gave myself a day for that. Ha! Ended up doing half the work in twice the time. I expected the springs (or spring as it turned out) to be real buggers but it turned out to be quite a nightmare. It was listing just a bit to the left so I started with that spring. No surprises initially. Most of the hub came apart as expected. Bearings seemed to be oiled more than greased and the U-bolts had to be hacksawed off. *Then* I got to the shackle bolts. Bloody hell they were. Front wasn't too bad but I spent a solid half hour applying various forces to the rear bolt before it was off. Sprayed it with oil, hit it with a hammer, crank on it with the socket. Finally it came out. If I had had a blow torch, I would have heat cycled it, but I didn't. Arms were sore for a week afterwards. Time to put the new one in. Steel sleeve inside the bushing is a bit too wide to fit in the rear hanger. Fortunately, it sticks out just the right amount that it can be hacksawed down to fit (note for anyone who tries this at home). Bolts that I bought from RN don't have enough thread to be tightened down on the hanger but they have nyloc nuts which will keep it together until I can get some washers on it (front only, rear is OK). Shocks were trivial (what a relief) but had my first disappointment from RN: I ordered a 1 1/16" lug wrench and they sent me one of the smaller ones. They straightened it out, of course. Repacked the front bearings and did a proper job of it. Hope it will keep some of the oil out. Question: I have the 'Select-O' freewheeling hubs from someplace in the US. Inside is a collar/cam that lifts a spline off of the axle. On one of mine, the collar is cracked. It still works but it bugs me. Does anyone know where to get one of these? RN has entire hubs but I don't really need that. Left front swivel pin housing does leak at the ball seal so I'll probably replace that one later on. Leak is slow enough that I just have to watch it. Right one seems fine if visibly pitted. Overall, the new spring and front shocks seems to have helped. Doesn't dive quite as much and turning behavior is better. Lists to the right now so I'll do the right spring (!$#%^@#$^) in a week or two. Also had my first lesson in F'ing Previous Owners (FPO, or FPPO, or ...). While checking the oil and grease in every petroleum-bearing structure, I found that someone along the line decide to sound or water proof the passenger area by using silicone sealant on the floor plates. Wouldn't have been a bad idea if they had let it dry before putting the plates back on but they put them on wet. Result: I haven't been able to check the transmission oil level yet. !#^!@#^!@#^ Despite the amount of sweat, swearing, and work put in, I have to say I've never enjoyed working on a vehicle as much as I do the LR. Guess it'll give me plenty to do in the future, yes? Question for Jory and any NE Roverists: do you know of any junkyards in the area that have or might have LR's in their lot? Thought I'd go scavenge.... Monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 05:37:15 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: 2.25 Power To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 10:08:39 BST I'm afraid I cant agree with Ross's evaluation of the 2.25 petrol in its standard form.He critcises it for having poor performance poor economy,and poor design. I would suggest that its performance is perfectly adequate when you consider the time for which it was built.When I was in my middle twenties,cars cruising at fifty were not often passed on the road. When you consider the weight and aerodynamics of the Land Rover, there isnt much wrong with an engine that could keep up with the traffic flow of its era,whilst propelling a vehicle of 1.5 tons and the aerodynamics of the average concrete outhouse. As for economy,*any* 4X4 is at a disadvantage here,because of its weight,and the mass of rotating machinery incorporated in it.But if you *really* want an example of poor economy,try a Bedford Rascal(Suzuki derived)van.My dept here ran one for two years,and round campus,lightly laden,it returned a fuel consumption of under 20mpg.This with an engine of under 1litre capacity. As for poor design,well,its longevity contradicts that one.I consider it a good match with the work pattern expected of it,even now,and having rebuilt my diesel,(from which it was derived,largely) it is one of the best engineered engines I have come across,and this includes Jaguars 2.4 litre XK unit.In fact,I'll go further,and suggest that Land Rover have never put a bad engine into their products,and I include the 2.25 diesel,(not fast,but adequate in an 88",the 1092 well,perhaps not),and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road. In fact,I have lately wondered whether this engine in an 88" wouldnt almost be a match for Steves V8 equipped airportable.(That is,if he didnt cheat and strip it down as for a helo lift:-)). There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the minute standards of fuel economy.Well and good.By all means try,and the best of luck,I find the efforts involved very interesting and informative.But *please* remember that the stock engines fitted to the vehicles were good *in their day* and it is,I think,unfair to critcise them *by current standards*.After all,if we cant improve things in the 45 years that Land Rovers have been around,we all may as well go back to possibly the most versatile off-road vehcle ever.The horse.(And I've got one of those,as well:-)) Right,this bit ought to have gone in at the beginning.When I saw Ross's comments it set me thinking.He is by no means alone in his outlook,so I thought it might be interesting to introduce a "discussion document",so to speak,to see what ohter people's views are.This is emphatically NOT a flame.I may have even got the wrong end of the stick.So what *are* other people views? Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 09:25:03 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 93 07:16:07 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: 2.25 Power > and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was >capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road. My problem with the 2.6 litre was longevity, it ran very hot and had a nasty habit of eating valves at regular intervals, most annoying. If anyone has some mods that would solve this I would probably consider rebuilding the 2.6 rather than looking for a engine swap (finances still have my 109 in mothballs). -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jun 25 10:39:31 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1993 11:32:02 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: 6 cylinder Power Plant >> and the much maligned 2.6l 6cyl petrol,which was >>capable of propelling a 109" Safari,loaded,at over 70 on the road. > >My problem with the 2.6 litre was longevity, it ran very hot and had >a nasty habit of eating valves at regular intervals, most annoying. If >anyone has some mods that would solve this I would probably consider >rebuilding the 2.6 rather than looking for a engine swap (finances still >have my 109 in mothballs). > I wasn't aware of a 2.6 6 cyl. engine, but have seen a 3 liter 6 in 109" wagons. I was told years ago that the 3 liter was essentially made from the same castings as my 2 liter with an additional 2 cylinders. It certainly looked the same, only longer. It even used the same AC FF-24 (nasty) oil filter element. The only time it ever ran hot, though, was when the upper radiator hose ruptured. I don't know what problems owners of the 3 liter 6 experienced, but I finally learned that I had to keep my valve (exhaust especially) clearances about .002 wider than the manual called for. The last time that I replaced them (when they had been set at the book clearance value), all 4 exhaust valves were burnt. Noone could believe it was still running! Likewise, finances still have my 107 in mothballs (in pieces). Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu Information Resources Cornell University Phone: (607) 255-1477 Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 14853-2601 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 01:46:16 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 01:30:20 -1812 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 01:30:20 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Engine Rebuilding I followed the thread about the ultimate Rover engine with some interest and I guess I will pass on what little I have been told - In a conversation with Lanny at Rovers North I asked him what would be the ultimate rebuild - He said (my recollection at least) 1. bore engine out to accept largest pistons (040) 2. open up intake and exhaust ports to size of gasket 3. take a bit off the head to raise the compression (I was mostly interested in raising power for higher altitude running. Here in Austin the hills are problem enough - in Santa Fe you might as well pull into the breakdown lane) We did talk a little about carbs. He likes the original Rover carbs, esp. the Solex. We also talked about the double barrel Weber which he thinks is pretty good, but the new intake manifold lacks any preheating and thus when the engine is cold there is going to be a lot of stumbling. Other things - (not from Lanny) - replace the air filter with a K&N - you could monkey with the ignition system - there is a system I have heard of that will replace you contact points and condenser with some solid state contraption. You also could chuck the coil. It is just a mattter of the bucks- and I'm not at all sure if there would be any pay back (except you wouldn't have to set the gap on the points any longer). But then again maybe it is just best to leave it alone and if you really need power to look at a different engine. I would be curious to hear what the options might be. The Land Rover Owner International mag. is full of engine conversion ads, but it doesn't seem that many people think these are any good. And of course there is always the problem of attaching too much engine to a drivetrain that is not built to take the extra power. In particular did somebody on the list mention that a Rover V8 from a 1970 sedan would fit into a LR??? I also saw some articles in an old Land Rover Club newsletter that touted using Chevy? 4 or 6 cylinder engines. Anyway - that is my thoughts/questions on the subject. Greg 70 88 IIa From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 21:18:03 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: 2.25 Power ? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 11:26:56 CST Lots of Mike Rooths stuff deleted, some where he writes. "There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the minute standards of fuel economy." A good friend of mine runs a construction business. His own personal 4x4 is an early 70's SIII 2.25p 109 h/top. His work 4x4 is a late 80's Toyota land-cruiser trayback fitted with the 2H 6cyl diesel. He regulary has to work 4-500 km (250+miles) away. On one occasion the cruiser was off for repairs and he was forced to use the landy to tow his tri-axle trailer containing backhoe, and etc. He found that once it was wound up the landy could maintain almost the same speeds as the tojo (60-65 mph) and returned better fuel economy than the Diesel. When lightly or moderately loaded the cruiser is *much* more economical (up to twice as good) than the landy but when the loads get extreme the old "inefficient" 2.25p doesnt suffer as much as the big tojo diesel. My gas guzzling V8 is similarly inclined to be little affected by obscene loads but it would be nicer to get better unloaded economy. (obscene speed is a different matter :-) -- Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 SIII 109 V8 "county" wagon (350K km and just about stuffed) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jun 27 22:18:52 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: 2.25 Power ? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 11:26:56 CST Lots of Mike Rooths stuff deleted, some where he writes. "There seems to be a faction among Land Rover owners,that want their vehicles to perform like a sports car on road,but still to exhibit their original performance off it *and* to do all this at up to the minute standards of fuel economy." A good friend of mine runs a construction business. His own personal 4x4 is an early 70's SIII 2.25p 109 h/top. His work 4x4 is a late 80's Toyota land-cruiser trayback fitted with the 2H 6cyl diesel. He regulary has to work 4-500 km (250+miles) away. On one occasion the cruiser was off for repairs and he was forced to use the landy to tow his tri-axle trailer containing backhoe, and etc. He found that once it was wound up the landy could maintain almost the same speeds as the tojo (60-65 mph) and returned better fuel economy than the Diesel. When lightly or moderately loaded the cruiser is *much* more economical (up to twice as good) than the landy but when the loads get extreme the old "inefficient" 2.25p doesnt suffer as much as the big tojo diesel. My gas guzzling V8 is similarly inclined to be little affected by obscene loads but it would be nicer to get better unloaded economy. (obscene speed is a different matter :-) -- Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 SIII 109 V8 "county" wagon (350K km and just about stuffed) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 02:53:07 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: 2.25 Power From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:33:52 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > Right,this bit ought to have gone in at the beginning.When I saw Ross's > comments it set me thinking.He is by no means alone in his outlook,so I > thought it might be interesting to introduce a "discussion document",so > to speak,to see what ohter people's views are.This is emphatically NOT > a flame.I may have even got the wrong end of the stick.So what *are* > other people views? Mine can probably be summed up this way. I have a 1976 Austin Mini. It is an all round solid vehicle and performs quite well for what it was designed for. *I* think that it is too slow and lacks performance, thus the desire for a Cooper S arises. Do I go out and spend a ton of cash building up the 998 lump, or acquire a 1275 for the Mini? Nope. I am going to acquire a late '60s Austin Cooper S to rebuild. The Rover has the 2.25l lump. It is well know over here, solid and reliable. To drop the popular Rover 3.5l v8 would cause problems and a much greater expenditure of cash. I think that you should work with what you have and make it perform as well as can be expected, trying to creating something that will have a long life while living up to its design specifications, if not slightly exceeding them without putting undo strain on the engine. Rgds, Dixon PS An Arden 8 port head, dual Webers, and a five speed gearbox on the Cooper would be cool though... :-) (starting at about 2,500 pounds for the conversion... ) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 02:53:10 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Muscle Rover From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:22:13 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Steve Methley writes: > Surely you mean twin turbos, of course the second is carried as a spare in > Dixon's usual manner....... Maybe the new heavy bumper should be augmented > with side skirts just to keep this baby on the ground ;-) I have few problems keeping it *in* the ground. Higher up would be nicer. Hmmm, Rover have a hovercraft option? :) Rgds, Dixon PS. What would really be neat would be a Cuthbertson conversion kit... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:07:39 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Intro to Sworking From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:28:17 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out I did the first major work on my new old LR two weekends ago. Quite an impressive list of work undertaken, and only in twice the time allocated! :-) This weekend also saw the muffler replaced and the discovery that the rear diff had been well cracked at one point and poorly welded back together. I guess in the next weekend of two, we shall be replacing the rear axle with a spare that we have kicking about, now that a restoration project on a 109 pick-up is being abandoned. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:20:28 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Engine Rebuilding From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 22:17:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > And of course there is always the problem of attaching too much > engine to a drivetrain that is not built to take the extra power. This is a major consideration as you will just twist the half shafts off unless one wants to start working your way forward and rearward in stiffening up the entire drive train. I really do not want to go that route with my engine. I am seeking a solution whereby I will have a good solid engine that will purr and not require rebuilding for another 70,000+ miles. An additional consideration can be derived from this weekend's activities. Three Land Rovers went into the forest (down the same trail as last week), two came out. The third Rover ('62 swb) was having electrical problems <1> so I managed to tow his a good bit of the way back. Coming to the mire on the lower side of a beaver dam, I had plenty of torque, sufficient power, very aggressive tires, but started to dig myself in trying to tow the swb through. We gave up when we noticed that the right front wheel had lost two nuts, with studs, and we were starting to bend it off of the hub. We will retrieve it tomorrow, or in the next few days. > In particular did somebody on the list mention that a Rover V8 from a > 1970 sedan would fit into a LR??? This would be the Rover 3.5l (Buick) engine. It does fit into a Land Rover, and a couple of versions did use the engine. This engine has been used in quite a few BMC->Rover products. Rgds, Dixon 1. When one changes a leaking radiator one should not be lazy and forget to put the shroud back on. When you are in water slightly over the front floor pans/plates, that fan going around creates quite a spray of water, in fact pop the bonnet and it flys quite far . Needless to say, this creates a few short problems with the Lucas wiring. Lots of WD-40 et cetera is required to keep the beast running. At one point, when we were winching the swb forward towards dry ground, the water got to about 1/2" from the top of the front right wing when I found a really nice "pothole". The winch managed through however and we got to dry ground to further address the problem. However, coming back out required my 109" and some chain to get back across the shallow pond. I managed about 2/3'd of the way before the third Rover (Series III swb) was required to help me through with the '62 chained behind. From there it was a backward tow for a half mile down the twisting trail for the '62 through streams, mud and around all but one tree (he bounced, though lost his rear drivers lights in the process.) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:34:38 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Lean Mean What? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 23:12:35 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Ross writes: > What do you want from your 2.25? Do you want to keep it original in every > respect? If so, you will burden yourself with poor performance and poor > economy for the rest of its working life, as a direct result of its ancient > and rather poor design. The only thing it has going for it, is that its > solid and extremely tolerant of wear and bad working conditions. Originality is one thing, practicality is another. If I desire speed, the only alternative is to get an overdrive unit for it. Someday when cash is a bit freer. Long lasting and tolerant are pretty high on the agenda. > Balancing the crankshaft may improve matters, but where I come from, > this operation requires copious quantities of cash and will never achieve > the smoothness of a 5 bearing unit. However, if you want to keep the thing > 'stock' then this is an option you will ahave to consider. I am lead to understand that this will cost the equiv. of fifty pounds to have done for the crank, a bit more to add the pistons, con rods etc. to the batch. > So if you're looking for a 'lean mean racing machine' (as specified) > then forget the Weber carb. 'lean mean racing machine' was kind of tongue in cheek, but indicating something that will do well in the swamp... :-) > A new camshaft will cost you around a hundred pounds, but I'm not sure > about the turbo. I have a price at home if you are really interested > or I can give you the address of a couple of companies that will supply. New camshaft is something that has been mentioned before. Do they wear that much over 70k+ miles? As for the turbo, the concept is nice, but probably a bit much. 52mph is exciting down the highway. 65 would be preferable, but the 109 steers like a cow, and any faster begins to give me too much worry while driving. > So, are you ready for a turbo? :) I'll wait for the results to come in from someone else doing the conversion... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 03:47:34 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Engine Rebuild From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1993 22:59:35 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > The first comment that occurred to me when I read about your project > was one that TeriAnn made some time ago,viz,that the 2.25 engine is > seriously overbuilt anyway.The second is that it all depends on the > depth of your pocket,the length of time you are prepared to spend,and > what you want out of it.Long life (which you will probably get anyway) > increased power etc. The pockets are not that deep, though I could probably find the $$$ if the job is going to be done right. The crank is in excellent shape, though I will be needing four new pistons to start. The opion from those that have seen the block is that it needs to be honed, but does not need to be bored out at all. > All the 2.25 petrol engines I have seen so far have been quiet running, > and smooth,no matter what age. You should hear a few up here... Though one swb made it in and out of the quagmire last week on three cylinders. > Balancing the crank (and I suppose the pistons) can do no harm,but is it > worth the extra cost? I understand that the cost is not that significant, but the results are well worth the expenditure. This approach has already been undertaken with at least one Rover up here. One that I have seen is the quietest and smoothest running 2.25l that I have ever come across. Some of the 2.25l's that are not so smooth here pour out clouds of smoke and sound rather tired. Over in the UK you have the yearly MOT to keep things in line. Over here (Quebec or Ontario) the vehicle is inspected once, and if that was 25 years ago... > I would suggest that converting the head to run on unleaded fuel may be > a worthwhile thing to do,resulting in lack of valve seat regression, and > hence, longer life. Good idea, considering we can no longer get leaded fuel up here. I do not think that it is that expensive an undertaking either. > Weber or similar carb? Weber went on two weeks ago... :-) Much better performance over the Solex. A worthwhile 52 pound expenditure. > New timing chain and tensioner. The chain is not in that bad condition, actually pretty good so we are debating this one right now... > One small thing I *would* do though,easy to ignore,is replace the core plugs, > they must have corroded a bit by now,and could be disastrous if they went > particularly after you spent all that money. Never thought of this... Thanks, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 05:23:05 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: 2.25,2.6,Hovercraft? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:59:07 BST There you go,Dixon,I have seen somewhere a photo of a Land Rover hovercraft.Based on a S11 88",I think.Nothing new under the sun?:-) I,ve had a little furkle round the available data this weekend,and it seems that all the IOE Land Rover engines had a tendency to burn out exhaust valves.That is the 1.5,2.0 and 2.6.In addition,the 2.6 six cyl *could* suffer fron a warped cyl head,with it being so long, and alloy to boot.Which might account for overheating?The basic problem for 2.6 owners would seem to be lack of spares.The catalogues I have dont seem to acknowledge the engines exustance at all.Doesnt mean you cant get them,though,could just mean that they arent sold in enough volume to put in the cat. Steves comments on the 3litre make me wonder whether the engine he saw was ex the Rover 3litre coupe,a *very* luxurious beasty indeed, about as far from the Land Rover as you can get.I know the 2.6 came from the Rover 110 car,with altered tuning,so perhaps this was either a special one off or an engine swap.I cant find any referance to a 3litre unit in any of my books,and the Land Rover workshop manual only deals with 2.25 petrol and diesel,and 2.6 petrol.Interesting that,I wonder if it was,indeed factory fitted. There is an excellent photo of the six cylinder installation;LHD too; in the current issue of LRO magazine.Bet it was never *that* clean afterwards:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 06:17:58 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: 2.25,2.6,Hovercraft? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 28 Jun 93 10:59:07 BST There you go,Dixon,I have seen somewhere a photo of a Land Rover hovercraft.Based on a S11 88",I think.Nothing new under the sun?:-) I,ve had a little furkle round the available data this weekend,and it seems that all the IOE Land Rover engines had a tendency to burn out exhaust valves.That is the 1.5,2.0 and 2.6.In addition,the 2.6 six cyl *could* suffer fron a warped cyl head,with it being so long, and alloy to boot.Which might account for overheating?The basic problem for 2.6 owners would seem to be lack of spares.The catalogues I have dont seem to acknowledge the engines exustance at all.Doesnt mean you cant get them,though,could just mean that they arent sold in enough volume to put in the cat. Steves comments on the 3litre make me wonder whether the engine he saw was ex the Rover 3litre coupe,a *very* luxurious beasty indeed, about as far from the Land Rover as you can get.I know the 2.6 came from the Rover 110 car,with altered tuning,so perhaps this was either a special one off or an engine swap.I cant find any referance to a 3litre unit in any of my books,and the Land Rover workshop manual only deals with 2.25 petrol and diesel,and 2.6 petrol.Interesting that,I wonder if it was,indeed factory fitted. There is an excellent photo of the six cylinder installation;LHD too; in the current issue of LRO magazine.Bet it was never *that* clean afterwards:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jun 28 11:44:27 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:56:12 -1812 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 10:56:12 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Gearboxes and Transfer Cases For those interested I talked to a guy recently who is an agent for L.E.G.S. Ltd of England who sells the following (he is in the states) 1. High Speed transfer case ~ $850-900 same low gear - higher high gear - supposed to about the same as overdrive in 2/4 wheel high -same gearing in 4 wheel low 2. Rebuilt transmissions and transfer cases ~ $1,100 all syncromesh gears - he says they will work on all Rovers - can get IIa units. 3. Transmissions - old case, new innards - $1600 - have to pay shipment from Eng. warranty is for 6 months so far it is the honor system - no core charges Also - he is about to get a shipment from Eng. - he might be able to put something special on if you are looking. His name is Mike in Kansas City (816) 763-3797. I'll put this on the list - but as he is just about to put together a shipment I thought I would let people know now in case they wanted to try to work something out. Greg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 01:49:41 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Turbo From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:13:39 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > > As for reliability with turbo attached. Well, the engine is such that > > its bolt and braces, overbuilt nature results in there being no real > > problem with the extra cylinder pressures and the only mainatince worry > > that you have is keeping the oil to the turbo clean and in plentiful > > supply. > > > > So, are you ready for a turbo? :) > > This also increases the likelihodd of a snapping axels. the reason for balancing the eng is for smoothness while running and a moderate increase in power and economy without afecting reliability at a low initial cost. i would suggest that the addition of a turbo may not affect the head or block but would lead to high stress on the head gasket causing it to fail (i am unaware of a competition gasket for the 2.25 lr eng.) unless low comp. pistons are used.please bear in mind the low comp. in the 7.7to1 eng. is achieved by using a thicker head casting with larger comb. chambers. The other thing to bear in mind is that if you are willing to bear the substantial cost of getting a turbo, you might as well start looking at Range Rovers, or getting a 3.5l v8 for the Land Rover. Finally, snapping axles is not a certainty. It all depends on how you use the power. > -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 02:31:22 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: k&n air filter From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 23:05:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada in regards to using an air filter of this type when wading water may be drawn into the carb.badness.with any luck the oil bath air filter may stop this unwanted ingress. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 02:47:40 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!tr@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... From: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Reply-To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1993 22:38:26 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" writes: > If you're going to do this right, you should do the following to the crank: > > crack test/magnaflux, scrap if there's a crack > hot tank, remove oil plugs, brush clean passages > shot peen > grind and micro polish > balance (with flywheel, rods, pistons, optionally clutch) > chamfer oil holes to improve lubrication Doing a crack test on a land rover crank is pointless as it is a low (delete low) generally a lowstress engine although it would be quite appropriate for most cranks.please remember we are trying to keep costs low as labour intensive work such as this is prohibitive in Canada.matching ports is worthwhile as is giving the ports a slight polish to improve flow. -- Ted Rose, tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 03:58:29 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Turbo To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 9:46:22 BST With regard to this discussion about turbochargers,I havent actually ever *seen* any adverts for turbos siutable for the 2.25 petrol.Is there one?The only two references I *have* seen are a photo of a Janspeed Turbo installation on a 2.25 diesel,and an advert for Allard turbos for the same engine.I must admit,that desirable though it may be to get more power out of my 2.25 diesel(and it is:-))I would not consider turbocharging a three bearing 2.25 because of the extra stress it would put on the bottom end.We are talking 22:1 compression ratio here.Hence the ginourmous starter and lorry sized battery to start it.It would have to be a *good* five bearing to take such a mod,I think.Perhaps it is more than Dixon wants to spend,but Turner engineering do a high performance head for the 2.25 petrol,and a firm advertise a performance exhaust for the same engine in LRO.Or one could *really* splash out and get one of Mr Turner's remanufactured engines!Wish,wish,wish...... Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 06:19:14 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: turbo or not turbo... To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 12:13:15 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Ted Rose says: > The other thing to bear in mind is that if you are willing to bear the > substantial cost of getting a turbo, you might as well start looking at > Range Rovers, or getting a 3.5l v8 for the Land Rover. > > Finally, snapping axles is not a certainty. It all depends on how you > use the power. Quite right mate. I have friends with V6's, V8's and 2.25's. We've only ever lost an axle in a 2.25. Axles break when a wheel _suddenly_ spins after being stuck, like when you rev a small engine. The larger engines with masses of torque trickle ahead on tickover.... (You wouldn't get this low speed torque on a turbo engine either, their power kicks in higher in the rev band... In fact I read that this is a common criticism of the otherwise excellent Tdi). Cheers, Steve. PS looks like I'll be coming across from England for a few day's business in Ottowa, is this near any of you guys? Anyone want anything bringing across (no, a LWB back body isn't hand luggage!) PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blue, quite nice really! From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:00:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: 30 Jun 1993 06:40:48 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: Land Rover Mailing List Cc: Subject: G'day all Thought some of you folks could help this guy. Paul ___Forwarded Letter Follows_______________________________ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 09:34:04 +0800 From: Mark J Keenan To: offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: G'day all re: My bio Don't know if it was received or not (certainly didn't come up in my mail - is this supposed to happen??). Anyways I'm the aussie with the Landrover (1974, S3) which, incidentally , refused to start this morning and is still sitting in the drive at home (#@!*). re: JUMPING GEAR PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't don't don't TIE IT BACK!!!!!! My Landy used to (still does, not fixed yet) jump out of 2nd & reverse (selector problems I'm informed) - in those times when I needed to I held it in gear by hand.........BAD MOVE!!!!! Eventually the stick broke off at the base and my wife and I were stuck in between two rows of parked cars, partly engaged in reverse and no room to push the truck!!!! Believe it or not a replacement stick from JRA(Jag Rover Aust) was quoted at $182 AUS....big bucks for a metal rod. Anyways I welded a sleeve over it and she is fine now. You would be better off getting the problem looked at - I would hate you to fall into this same hole!! Later all, MK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is a Landy that don't start, a wife on her third day late for work and $2.50 in your pocket to pay for a cab...... mark@uniwa.uwa.edu.au ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ___End of Forwarded Letter________________________________ From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:09:54 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com Subject: turbos, etc Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 10:02:52 EDT i once saw fred monsee or piermont offroad (formerly in ma) installing a turbo in a ser iii... the turbo was for a right hand drive and this entailed some fancy welding work on his part... (he had previously installed air conditioning in this same rover, apparently the customer owned a ski/resort hotel thingy in colorado and wanted a well-equipped rover :) i went to the downeast rover rally in maine this past weekend... it was surreal... there were a few neat things: -the guy who had shoehorned volvo seats into his swb ser ii -an article in a magazine about an irish place that makes a bolt up frame that makes older land rovers (88 & 109) into coil sprung, 4-disc brake jobbies (anyone heard of this?) -rn had brought (among other things) a recent left had drive military 90, which was more utilitarian looking that the cellular phone equipped defenders i have chanced to see -an 88 that was entirely stripped of paint ala delorean (unfortunalately (imho) he was going to paint it) -jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 09:33:58 1993 Return-Path: To: tr@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Ted Rose) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Technical advice sought... In-Reply-To: tr's message of Tue, 29 Jun 93 19:38:26 -0800. Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 07:16:43 PDT Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" A crack test shouldn't cost more than $20. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 10:54:09 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Coil Sprung Oldies To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:47:04 BST Jory mentions a coil sprung 88" chassis.Dont know about *bolt*? together,or Irish,but there are at least a couple of English firms that will convert leaf to coil,and drum to disc.One firm advertises the rolling chassis at 1995 pounds sterling inc VAT,the other advertises the complete Land Rover,called by them the "Urban Rover" based on a sreies 111,but gives no price.There are probably more. I can post the phone nos if anyone is interested. Regards Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 11:05:19 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: drum to disc To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:57:35 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Mike says: > that will convert leaf to coil,and drum to disc ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I havn't heard of this before - do you mean leaf spring models can run front disks? I'd be real interested in this one. Cheers, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 11:28:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 16:16:36 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: leaf to coil! Jory said he saw: -an article in a magazine about an irish place that makes a bolt up frame that makes older land rovers (88 & 109) into coil sprung, 4-disc brake jobbies (anyone heard of this?) so what the hell am I gonna do with my kidney belt if i go coil-sprung?? I ain't much of a weight lifter! \ rdushin From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 12:15:18 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: turbo or not turbo... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 10:59:02 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Steve Methley writes: > PS looks like I'll be coming across from England for a few day's business in > Ottowa, is this near any of you guys? Anyone want anything bringing across > (no, a LWB back body isn't hand luggage!) If you mean Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, that is were you will find quite a few Land Rover nuts, swamp, beer, and possibly a thoroughly enjoyable time. When are you planning on coming over? As for "supplies", I seem to recall that you can bench press some 6,000 pounds, thus your carry-on luggage may be a bit heavier than you would normally expect... What would be considered reasonable to see if it is possible to have you bring over? IE: How many tons can we have sent to you... :-) > PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blu > quite nice really! Cretin. Land Rovers are *not* supposed to be washed. It probably looks as ugly as sin, with all of that blue paint showing. You do realise that you have now removed all of the protective layer for your beast. Now sunlight is going to make your paint fade, real LR owners are going to snicker behind your back, little children are going to suffer future mental problems from the confusion arising from seeing your "clean" automobile. The repercussions from this action are horrific to contemplate... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 12:23:50 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 12:02:19 -1812 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 12:02:19 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: Turbo Mike Rooth says >Turner engineering do a high performance head for the 2.25 petrol,and >a firm advertise a performance exhaust for the same engine in LRO. Question about these exhaust systems? Most of these systems seem to be some type of header system. In creating these they do away with the connection between the intake and exhaust manifolds. Thus you lose preheating of the intake air. This would seem to be good when the engine is warm (the cooler the air the more you can get in) but wouldn't this cause problems in colder conditions? I thought I was told that one of the major problems with the 2 barrell Weber is that it uses a new intake manifold and thus you get no preheating and until the engine is warm, the performance is poor. Is this right? Any thoughts? Greg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 13:12:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 30 Jun 93 11:00:25 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: washing and paint > PPS I washed my landy for the first time ever last night - turns out it's blu > quite nice really! Mine used to be that faded dusky LR blue, after that sand storm at Salton Sea (southern california) though it is mostly dull silver :-). With respect to the poster about just polishing the aluminum, I did that on my SI 80", polished the hood all the way down to 600 grit polishing compound. Thought it looked great until the first time I had to drive into the sun (Wow!!!!!!!!!). -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jun 30 15:36:56 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: OVLR June Newsletter From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1993 13:29:49 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada OTTAWA VALLEY LAND ROVERS 1016 NORMANDY CRESCENT, OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA K2C 0L4 3 June 1993 G' day eh. A word from the president...believe it or not, this club has been together for 10 years. As president of Ottawa Valley Land Rovers: Happy Birthday OVLR! I would like to underline the work and dedication of the people that have kept the club alive. Most of us know how difficult it is, nowadays, to keep a non-profit organisation active. I'm proud of the team that currently works with me... for you. Let's also recognize the commitment of the previous members of the executive and the special contributors like the newsletter editor and the special event coordinators. The strength of this club has a lot to do with what has been done in the past. Regular activities, along with the newsletter that appears at your door every month, constitute the corner stone of the organisation's survival. A few people do a lot of work for us all. In return we can attend events, send our low membership dues in on time, and offer our help whenever possible. It is highly encouraging to see how many people attend the executive meetings. It shows support and interest to the executive; it gives a meaning to what we do. That is the way the road will be paved for ten more years... Thanks to all. FROM THE EDITOR....If you missed the engine tuning session at MINIMAN MOTORS LTD., you missed a golden opportunity to improve the performance of your Land Rover. In my case, the compression was checked ( 150 lbs across !!!!), and the tappets were adjusted. The end result was a quieter, better performing engine. My son Bryan learned how to set valve tappet clearances and tune a petrol engine. My personal thanks to a very patient and helpful Ted Rose. David and Suzie Bateman arrived from Montreal with a strange growth attached to their steering, looked like some disease out of control. David will surely be a prime Lug Nut candidate for this rather innovative repair. Fred Joyce and others decided David required repairs before proceeding any farther. In short order the carbuncle was removed and repairs made. Good to have people who care, that is what makes OVLR a great organization. Bates was looking smart in his 107, hood down, sporting a new paint job in Beaver Lumber Green. Bates was reminded he missed the wheels, Bates reply "I have to get a smaller paint roller for the wheels". Five Land Rovers ran better after this event and a number of members improved their mechanical abilities. We also had a good social encounter which finished up with a pint at The Swan in Carp. A number of people to thank, Ted Rose for organizing the event and providing mechanical assistance, Jason Dowel for his mechanical skills, Yves Fortin for calling the members and MINIMAN MOTORS for the use of their facilities. The Miniman advertisement in this issue is just a sample of what is available. Visit Miniman, you will be pleasantly surprised at their selection of Land Rover parts. THE JUNE EXECUTIVE MEETING...The executive, with some help, did a lot of good stuff on your behalf. We still have money in the bank according to Treasurer Tom Mayor (I wish frugal Tom was running Canada's finances). The club now has 67 members. Arrangements were completed for the Birthday Party, details under Club Events. Club Trailer... is now painted in Northern Ireland, Bullet Proof, Bronze Green. The stoves have arrived and are being modified and installed. Look for the trailer at the Birthday Party. Again a number of people to thank for their time and effort, Roy Bailey and Kanata Collision Limited for donating their space and a painter to apply the bullet proof paint.. Jerry Dowell of Otto's BMW for getting us a deal on the paint. Charlie Haigh of Rovers North Limited for helping us with shipping the stoves and Ted Weagle and John Burke of Burkes Metal Limited for trailer body work. And finally to Mike McD; the old qrey haired codger did a super job. Tenth Anniversary Album... The logistics of producing the album in time for the Birthday Party simply did not work out. We will have the album ready for the Christmas Party. Next Executive Meeting...Ottawa\Hull Naval Association (RCN), 150 Middle Street (Location of the Christmas Party). Wednesday, 7 July 1993, 7:30 pm. (613) 233-7009. ============================================================================ CLUB EVENTS... JUNE...TENTH ANNIVERSARY BIRTHDAY PARTY ... The event of the decade held 19 and 20 JUNE. Bring your Land Rover, your tent, and a suitable companion if you wish. Your dog is welcome on a leash. How much does it cost..$15.00/individual...$6.00/children under 6 years... $25.00/family (Dowel tribe is not one family). What OVLR provides...Saturday night chicken and rib supper, Sunday morning, sausaqe and egg breakfast. What to expect...a great time with your fellow Lug Nuts, off-Road events, and fireworks display by Bates. Remember our GREEN ROAD, TREAD LIGHTLY on PUBLIC and PRIVATE LAND policy. You may TRAVEL ONLY where OVLR PERMITS. Forget about the Boot and Bonnet and make your way to OVLR'S Birthday Party. How to get to the Birthday Party... Follow the map to Mike Dolan's farm on the page following. [ map ] ============================================================================== NEWS...WANTED...FOR SALE... EVENTS... ETC... FOR SALE - 1974 Ser III, fully restored, hard and soft top, 43,000 miles, $9500.00 \ negotiable. Joel Harris, (613) 830-4750 FOR SALE - Used truck cab, $200.00 firm. Call (613) 738-7880 FOR SALE - Ser IIA vehicles available for parts. Robin Lewis (613) 725-3483. WANTED - 16" wheel from a 109". Richard Wegner (819) 647-3467 AVAILABLE - Dual servo brake assembly, includes pedal box, $50.00 + taxes and shipping. HAT SALVAGE LTD. Medicine Hat, Alberta. (403) 527-3800. "DOWNEAST" V INTERNATIONAL LAND ROVER RALLY - Mid-Coast Maine, 26, 27 June, Contact Myles J. Murphy, RR2, Box 84, Linconville Maine, 04849 USA. ATLANTIC BRITISH LIMITED, LAND ROVER RALLY RALLY DATA REGISTRATION: FREE! Call or write for your registration package. DATE : July 16,17 and 18,1993 PLACE : Atlantic British, Ltd., Mechanicville, NY FACILITIES : Free camping on-site (although with limited facilities, no hot water, showers, etc.). Local hotel listings, nearby campgrounds, etc. are available - make your reservations early so you're not disappointed! ACTIVITIES : Once again this year we'll be offering prizes for The Farthest Distance Traveled, Best Restoration, Most Unique, Best Original, and People's Choice. We'll also be adding awards for Range Rovers and Defender 11O's (we're expecting at least half a dozen of this new version of the "Godfather of all Rovers"- at the Rally). You can also expect a couple of "Fun Runs" with your choice of on-or-off road adventuring, our infamous Pig Roast (nominal fee charged), swap meet, tech talks, restoration clinic, and plenty of tall tales, hot air, good times and new friends. So Please...Join Us! BRITISH INVASION WEEKEND, STOWE VERMONT - 17, 18 and 19 September 1993. A weekend of British beer, food, cars, Land Rovers, sports and historic military stuff. Usually attended by a number of OVLR Lug Nuts. More information later. KANGAROO SWEAT SHIRTS - top quality, fall weight, oatmeal grey with OVLR TENTH ANNIVERSARY LOGO, $40.00 including taxes. GOLF SHIRTS - green, OVLR TENTH ANNIVERSARY LOGO, $20.00 including taxes. Contact Yves Fortin (613) 237-9719 to order. Sweat Shirts and Golf Shirts will be on display and for sale at the Birthday Party. ============================================================================== GENERAL SERVICE.......................................By Robin Craig From the UK this month comes news that Land Rover is getting bigger in a literal sense. Within 24 hours of the British Army's trials unit receiving their test vehicles for Truck Utility Light, Truck Utility Medium and Truck Heavy Duty, the "snoop" had arrived. Bob Morrison reports the Truck Heavy Duty is the most interesting. It is a two axle four wheel vehicle, from there on a lot has been changed; the body has been widened in the box to allow it to carry a standard NATO ammunition pallet, minor changes have been made to the front body except for a modified air intake system on the front fender. The tailgate has been changed to a side hinged version with the spare wheel mounted on it. For a lot of service users, the fold down tailgate has been awkward. To reach any heavy stowed equipment one has to stretch over the tailgate to reach the object. Some troops have undone the chains and let the tailgate fold down completely. As anyone who owns an ex-military vehicle will tell you, this results in the tailgate striking the NATO hitch at one hell of a pace and causes a bloody great dent. The vehicle is covered by a canvas tarp at present, but I'm sure a hard top will be made available should the user trials demand it. There is a number of other changes, but Bob said "he was not permitted to examine the vehicles closely". Bob believes the overall track of the Truck Heavy Duty, if not the other two vehicles may have changed. More news when we get it. Remember where you read it first! The Lincolnshire Land Rover Club in England have their own Lugnut styled awards, called the Team Bojit Blunder Awards. Some of the winners have managed to nearly equal our own Al Pilgrim. Tony Summerfield managed to hit his caravan against an obstruction, he was on the way to a trailer reversing competition. Another was Rick Wells, who on the last section of a trials event ran out of gas; Rick is the manager of a local fuel company. The winner was Eric Rawlings who turned up five hours early for his job as an event timekeeper. If you remember, I have been talking about the six new V8 powered Courtaulds Composite Armour Vehicles (CAV) based on the Land Rover Defender that have gone into service with the British Forces in Bosnia and Northern Ireland. I was interested to find out just how much these cost. I was not prepared for the answer, 48,000 each!! On the same subject, Courtaulds have been told that they may not call their armoured vehicle the CAV Defender, because the boys at the factory have not sanctioned the use of the name. Don't you hate it when somebody gives you free publicity. It seems that our own Dale Desprey has more influence than one might have imagined. The British Motor Industry Heritage Trust (BMIHT) has a shuttle service to get you from the car park to the museum. The shuttle tractor is a modified Defender 110 towing three trailers with seats. What does this have to do with Dale you ask? Well the BMIHT shuttle has a set of under riders fitted to the front. That's all for this month..........................................Robin CHEERS, DAVID MEADOWS.....................................(613) 599-8746 ============================================================================== [ MiniMan ad with available parts list ] [ Octopus Parts ad ] -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada