From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 00:26:22 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Past Posts From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 23:33:43 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) writes: > Does anyone have a log of the posts from 27,28,29 September? Our server was > down and I missed out. Just send me yes answers, and I'll contact one of > you back (E-mail me direct in case the thing crashes again). I have most, if not all, messages from 14 April 1993 online (messages 415 through 964). Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 09:49:39 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: intro and emissions questions To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 10:32:29 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Hello All; Thanks all for your replys to my 'test' posting to the lro mailing list. I don't think I'm acutally subscribed as I did not receive a copy of my posting. I hope that sometime in the near future I'll be added to the mailing list. I sent my request in a couple of weeks ago :-( So I would appreicate it if you would send me your responses directly to dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Yes, I do share a life with a Land-Rover. I recently acquired a '74 88 Series III in "good" condition. The vehicle has about 60k miles on it and the engine was rebuilt in baltimore, maryland in '85 and has about 30k miles on it. It has a farily overdrive and the transmission seems to "pop" out of second a little too often, and the engine is in dire need of a good tuning and the carb a good cleaning. First off I have to figure out why the distribuator move/rotates even when the lockdown bolt is fairly tight, any ideas ? The previous owner only had it for 6 months but during that time he replaced the back end of the frame, front "horns", floorboards, installed new "tall" tires on the original 15" rims, and rebuilt/repaired the brakes. In addition he painted the whole vehicle painted tan, including the roof. The prep job for the paint work is good, but I think earl schibe could do a better job sparying paint. The original color was poppy seed red. The frame is in good shape a few signs of rust but nothing serious. There is some rust perforation of the fire wall and the bottom of the door frames are on their last legs, I guess I'll be looking into that. I'm in the process of repairing the clutch hydrolic system. Some time in the past the original hydrolic clutch line from the master cly. was replaced by a plumbers dream that had about 6 joints in it in the span of about 8inches. Needless to say that was leaking a tad. I just received the parts yesterday and hope to install them this evening. and the I'll be back on the road. :-) A on to fixing other items. In Alexandria, VA all vehicles less then 21 years of age need polution inspection. After some investigation it has been determined that the rover should have a PCV system ( which it does ) and an fuel evaporative system, which it does not apperar to have. There are two fuel lines leading from the gas tank into the engine compartment. One goes to the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump, up to a fuel filter located midline on top of the fire wall and then into the carb. The other fuel line looks like it was chopped off and is just sitting in the engine compartment near the base of the air filter. Does anybody know where this line should go, or what the original configuration for the evaporative control system was ? A couple of other questions - Is there an archive site for the landrover owners mailing list ? I'd like to gather tidbits of information and wisdom from it with out asking the entire group the same old tired questions. Why does it leak oil, does it have anything to do with it's british heritage :-). Cheers Dan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Code 7420 (202) 767-2024 (voice) Washington D.C. 20375-5320 (202) 767-0167 (fax) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 11:52:16 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 16:35:25 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: nightmare Nigel's gotta blown water pump bearing. It used to have this grinding sound-now it is a full-blown squeek and massive leaks have developed. Yesterday, I decided to remove the pump-something that hadn't been done for decades. Unfortunately, two of three bolts that hold the pump on that bolt into the block itself (these three bolt through the timing chain cover on the right side of the engine as viewed from the front and hold the pump on in the vicinity of the coolant entry to the block) managed to sheer off. I am now left with two broken studs that are deeply recessed into the timing chain cover and as I see it, I have two options: 1) try to use an EZ-out with the timing chain cover on. This could be tough. It will be difficult enough to drill a straight-on hole into the broken studs (without being able to see them), much less get an EZ-out straight into them. Additionally, I will be unable to get pentrating oil into the threads and/or heat the block with the cover in place. 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. To get the cover off I will need to remove the pulley on the mainshaft. My Rover workshop manual just says to remove it (and lists a special tool that looks just like a regular spannar to me-anyone got one and it is it a "special tool"??). My Haynes manual lists two methods-one of which I really do not like (you decide which is better): method a: remove the sump and place a block of wood between the crankcase and the crankshaft, then remove the large nut. method b: remove the starter motor and wedge a screwdriver between the case and the teeth on the flywheel. I am currently leaning towards method a, but if any of you have had success with b I may give it a shot (I AM leary of breaking teeth, however, as I have absolutely no idea how tight the pulley nut is going to be). Obviously, I am open to suggestions. Winter being just around the corner. rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 08:49:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 08:35:40 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare the objectives of both methods is to keep the crankshaft from turning whilst you remove the nut. I have successfully removed the nut -- but the engine was on a stand. I don't remember anything special about the nut -- I think I just used a large socket. But what I did use was an air impact wrench. Air impact wrenches are excellent for removing such things. The impact is of short duration and you don't have to brace the mechanism from turning. Secondly, you don't need such a long cheater bar. I would probably utilize an air impact wrench to remove the broken studs after you remove the timing chain cover. Utilize some heat and a stud remover special tool Good luck to you on your project hasta, ray harder From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 09:59:24 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 07:48:09 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: intro and emissions questions It has a farily overdrive and the transmission seems to "pop" out of second a little too often My SI used to do that and it turned out that the detent on second gear was misadjusted. If your transmission is similar then there is a set of detent adjusters under the top access plate, the service manual has details on how to adjust them. -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 10:08:16 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 07:54:54 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: nightmare 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. This would be my vote. The few times I have tried to save a step like this it has ended in more work and hassle, often I end up removing it anyway! method a: remove the sump and place a block of wood between the crankcase and the crankshaft, then remove the large nut. method b: remove the starter motor and wedge a screwdriver between the case and the teeth on the flywheel. I would first attempt it with an impact wrench (electric or air) and failing that I would go for (b). It has worked well for me and I hate removing the sump (especially if it isn't leaking). There my 2 cents, good luck. -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 11:51:54 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 09:31:22 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare rdushin, I'm sorry to read that Nigel is in such poor straights. I don't think you want to try to E-Z out the studs with the timing cover in place unless you like metal shavings inside Nigel'e engine :^0 If you have shipfitter's diesese this may be a dangerous job. I have a near terminal case of it. If it was me I would already be ordering a new timing chain and tensioner. I might even consider new gears. I mean they do wear & your there already. And if you are going to drop the pan, you need to check out the bearings and replace them if they are worn. Since the oil pump is right there, it would make sinse to check it for wear and to replace the 'O' ring on the pickup. But before I would pull the pan, I would check compression. I mean, as long as the pan is off and you pull the caps, your are most of the way to a ring job if you need one. & if you do that you can get hardened seats put into the head for unleaded petrol. My Rover burnt an exhaust valve and she ended up with a rebuilt engine, rebult transmission, two new drive shafts, the radiator bulkhead and front of th frame stripped down to bare metal and repainted, a new radiator, new speedo cable and new speedomoter. The MGBGT brunt an exhaust valve and got a valve job with hardened seats, rebuilt/rebushed SUs, new SMOG hoses, rebult brake calapers/cylinders, new brake pads/shoes, new petrol tank and new inside door panels. My TR3 was going to get a rebilt engine, new wiring harness and new interior. It is just now coming back together from a total frame off restoration. So you can just replace the studs and water pump, but wile you are at it and part way there anyway, you can just do a little more ;*) Oh try an impact wrench on the front nut. I just used one on the TR3's engine last weekend. Did'nt need anything to keep things from turning. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 12:31:40 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:13:28 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 09:47:34 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: nightmare > Content-Length: 1928 > X-Lines: 40 > > > 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. YES! Radiator out too, so you have room to work. Drill straight! > > rdushin/Nigel Dear Nigel, Have your owner try this, it worked on Elephino: Put the correct size socket attached to a hefty flex handle on the bolt in question. Rotate the engine until the flex handle (or rachet, set on "undo") rests frimly on the frame on the left side. Some duct tape will help hold things in position. Put the beastie in reverse, let it roll down the driveway backwards a little ways, then pop the clutch. If you don't have a driveway with nice slope, another Rover and a tow strap will do the job. You can also go forward, but pick a forward gear. The idea is that the engine turns in it's normal direction, but the bolt can't turn, so gets "un-screwed". Good luck getting those nasty rusted bolts out. Regards, Bill G. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 12:35:19 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:18:08 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: bellas@gamma.tti.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: intro and emissions questions A transmission poping out of second could also be caused by the spring holding the ball into the detent. a weak spring would allow the transmission to pop out of second. You can try shiming it with a flat washer. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:22:18 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 18:05:35 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: my bad dreams...... Folks- thanks for the thoughtful insight. gonna be a problem getting air (much less electricity) into the "work area" (a field, dusted with manure) so I may have to forgo the air-driven impact. Ye 'ol hammer driven impact is certainly gonna be an early choice. I do like the "brace-it-and-roll" method, though, so if the impact doesn't work I'll try that next. also not so sure just how deep into this I am prepared to get...... Nige has decent compression (at last check they were all 125+, if I remember correctly) and runs smooth as silk, so I'm tempted to avoid the total overhaul-on-account-of-a-blown-waterpump situation. Sound advice, though, nonetheless......I'll be taking it one step at a time. thanks again, rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:38:33 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:22:48 EDT From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Spontaneous denting? Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied beasts, can you tell me what's going on here? This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an accident report. At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also, the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The only indication that there might have been a collision is the dent. So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am only an unenlightened seeker. Any ideas? George g.mayhew @ieee.org From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:53:47 1993 Return-Path: To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: nightmare In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Sun, 03 Oct 93 09:35:25 -0800. <9310031635.AA00871@y1.sdsc.edu> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" When using an EZ out, I have found that I have a much higher rate of success in drilling with two modifications to the "usual directions": 1) Use left handed drill bits (and a reversible drill) to do the drilling. Sometimes, just the vibration and heat in the "right" direction will get the broken piece to come out. 2) MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! This can be something as simple as a piece of round stock that fits down the existing hole with a hole drilled in the center for the drill bit to a plate that bolts up in three existing bolts on the block and has a hole in the proper place. In any event, it is critical to get the hole for the EZout as straight and close to center as possible. Making the guide will take some extra time, but it's worth it in the end. Removing a mainshaft pulley nut can often be done by using the starter to apply the needed torque. Get the right sized socket and a long breaker bar. Attach to nut. Turn slowly in the normal direction of rotation until the bar contacts some piece of the car (like the fender). Put a piece of two by four at said point of contact. Turn the bar in reverse direction, and hit the starter. Scary in concept, but amazingly effective... From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 19:55:22 1993 Return-Path: From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? To: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310041822.AA05815@sven.lerc.nasa.gov>; from "George Mayhew" at Oct 4, 93 2:22 pm The only dent I have put in my RR is from jack knifing a trailer, and running into an elk. But if your a little on the tight side, carry $1000 deductable, and don't want your rates raised, the rear body panels unbolt except for 5 pop-rivets and then with a little persuasion with a plastic mallet you can pop out the dent. Mine was a pretty big dent so it took a lot of persuasion. Also from my hamering experience, the paint is quite mallable. Russ a Deranged Rover > > Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied > beasts, can you tell me what's going on here? > > This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same > one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for > 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body > panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately > assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an > accident report. > > At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and > I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that > is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also, > the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not > damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close > inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint > damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. > In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The > only indication that there might have been a collision is the > dent. > > So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known > to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am > only an unenlightened seeker. > > Any ideas? > > George > g.mayhew @ieee.org > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 20:42:09 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 01:29:33 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: drill guide?? Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground). I was actually contemplating the value of using the timing chain cover as a guide (with the bits of metal shavings in mind, however). The broken ends appear to be smooth and clean, and are (from my best estimation) a tad over an inch in (ie an inch into the cover, broken just at or close to the block). If I did this I might actually avoid having to remove the cover (and the pulley, and potentially the sump, starter, and do a total engine overhaul......)-but I'd have to make damned sure that I don't drill too deep or off center. Risky business. Then again, since I don't yet own any EZouts (good to have, though) and I do have a torch and vise grips, I may opt for the tear-him-down method. (I could always throw the cover back on and use it if needed). hmmmmm, rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 00:50:05 1993 Return-Path: To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: drill guide?? In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Mon, 04 Oct 93 18:29:33 -0800. <9310050129.AA35845@y1.sdsc.edu> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing chain cover)....... The problem is that the hole you need to drill for the EZout is a smaller diameter than the hole that you broke the bolt off in... Yes, be careful of the depth. When you're off buying EZouts and left handed drill bits, buy some drill stops, too. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 09:42:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 11:27:18 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: The danger of Metal bits Just I thought with reference to experience, but perhaps magnetizing your drill and then using it for a few sec. then stop drill in the whole... pull it out and spin the drill to remove metal bits. Just an idea..I have never done, I have however broken off half a dozen eezee outs... :( then you have a tempered steel core in the broken stud. wow...now you have real problem. anyhow seems that you are going to take a different approach. I know for sime items that heating them...so the metal expands and then quenching then in cold water ..so they contract...separating from it's mating surfaces...works well. I can'nt see how you could quench the studs...except maybe a large bucket of h2o. be gentle...just think of your dentist working in you sensitive mouth. nigel will appriciate it...and it will contribute to an overall lesser degree of angst and frustration...way out in your feild far away from a hot cup of tea. David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 10:58:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 15:47:37 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: guide >The problem is that the hole you need to drill for the EZout is a smaller diameter than the hole that you broke the bolt off in... ahya....perhaps all I need is a hollow sleeve to fit within the hole (if the right length, it could also function as a stop). thanks again, rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 11:06:06 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 15:53:20 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: broken studs > >I know for sime items that heating them...so the metal expands and then quenching then in cold water ..so they contract...separating from it's mating surfaces...works well. I can'nt see how you could quench the studs...except maybe a large bucket of h2o. -dry ice chunks, perhaps?? (or maybe one of these little dewars I have floating about my lab at work-a baby bath of dry -ice/acetone might do the trick-so long as I keep the bath away from my heat source, or use a non-flammable solvent, instead) rd/nige From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 12:04:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 09:52:00 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: drill guide?? > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:37:34 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: drill guide?? > Content-Length: 1045 > X-Lines: 25 > > > > >MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! > > geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing > chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although > there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground). > > hmmmmm, > rdushin/Nigel > Yeh, but, you don't want to drill the bolt out with a drill that's the same size as the hole in the timming chain cover. You still need a piece of tube that just fits the cover (outside diameter) and the drill bit of choice (id). Hobby stores that cater to the radio control folks, sell lengths of brass tube that come in diameters that are increments of 1/32", so each one fits inside the next. I have a 1" section of each size from 1/16" to 1/2" for just this purpose. I have gotten broken bolts out without an "easy-out" by drilling straight down the middle, several times with increasing sizes of bit, up to the root diameter of the thread. then the remains of the thread just pulls out and looks like a spring. Chase with the correct tap and it's as good as new. R, bg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 15:15:23 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: US Defender 90s Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 13:05:59 -0700 From: Ben Smith Here's something that my Dad emailed me and I thought the mailing list would be interested. ======================================== The latest issue of "Car and Driver" has a full page ad for a Defender 90 (sans top). Starting at $27,900 (canvas top optional) at a dealer near you. They also have a 4" blurb with pix on the Land Rover 90 in the section "Charting the Changes" sandwitched between the Lamborghini Diablo VT and the Lexus ES300. "The new Defender 90 takes over where the limited-production 110 model leaves off. Powered by the same 3.9-liter 182-hp V-8 of the 110, it has similar "Daktari" styling but it's 20- inches shorter in wheelbase and has only two doors and no metal roof. A canvas roof is available. The Defender 90 costs about $30,000." It looks like they really did it, and they even kept the price under the luxury tax limit. ========================================== -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:13:43 1993 Return-Path: To: Russell Burns Cc: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT." <9310050040.AA25290@ash.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 93 18:00:37 -0400 From: William Caloccia > This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same > one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for > 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body > panel, just below the window. > ... What really baffles me is that, on very close > inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint > damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. ! > In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The ! > only indication that there might have been a collision is the ! > dent. > So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known > to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am > only an unenlightened seeker. Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up, but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased, but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know, it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick. -- Bill From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:06 1993 Return-Path: To: William Caloccia Cc: Russell Burns , gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? In-Reply-To: caloccia's message of Tue, 05 Oct 93 15:00:37 -0800. <9310052200.AA28926@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" An old bodywork trick that I was taught it to let the panel get heated by the sun and then run an ice cube over it. Often the high temperature differential will pop the panel right out. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:43:14 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 19:28:36 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: RE:spontaneous denting Could it be that your r.r was hit from behind at angle with suffient force as tobuckle your panel. ie in fact it was not dented but rather buckled from compression? ds From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 23:23:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 00:08:21 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Newer LRs I've only seen one 'live' and photo details have been skimpy so to the net with my question: What to recent LRs have for suspension and lower drivetrain? It's truly independent all around now, correct? Struts or springs and shocks? Geometry? Half axles with U- or CV-joints? Torque-splitting center differential or rigidly connected? I can actually imagine the pneumatic ride-height adjusters being combined with swivel pins up front.... :-) monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 04:00:04 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Newer LRs To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com (I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 9:50:13 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310060402.AA10129@easynet.crl.dec.com>; from "I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on" at Oct 6, 93 12:08 am Monty, The 90/110 series Land Rovers have,basically,the Range Rover suspension and drivetrain.NOT independant suspension,but coil springs,centre diff etc.CV joints have replaced the old universal,or Hooke,joints in the front axle.Obviously,with the centre diff 4WD is permanent. Land Rover *did* once try independant suspension(on a leaf sprung)but the problem with that is that the diff(s) is/are bolted to the chassis, and therefore more prone to grounding than with the "beam" axle,and the experiment was not continued. Current engines are the trusty V8,or the equally trusty,but much newer, Tdi diesel 2.5L.This is a new Land Rover designed Turbocharged,intercooled diesel,direct injection,using the Bosch three spring injection system,which is said to make it a much quieter engine.Certainly the ones I have heard are definitely not noisy units,even on tickover,although they are obviously noisier than the V8,but Land Rover say that 70% of production is,in fact, diesel powered,possibly due to the economy factor. Inside,the "Defender" range,(stil Land Rovers to most of us)has lost its centre seat:-( and has a "cubby box" instead,with the outer seats moved inwards about an inch to give more elbow room,and is trimmed with "County Clorth" (in upper crust English)cloth to you and me.God help dog owners. Body styles are much as they always were.The main difference in appearance is the radiator grille which is flush with the wing fronts to provide room for the V8,initially,one piece windshield,and one piece doors with wind down windows.These doors,if you can afford them,will fit S11,S11A,and S111 models, provided that you use the current hinges and door striker plate on your old machine.Otherwise,you can get the usual truck cab,blind hardtop etc,but NOT the full softtop,except on the new limted edition yuppy version. Off road performance is said to be much better than with the leaf sprung versions,due to the increased suspension travel.The downside is that rebushing the suspension is *much* more expensive,and is not really a DIY prospect. Despite this,I want one:-) Cheers Mike Rooth PS (But I want to keep my old 11A as well) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 09:02:46 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 09:49:31 EDT From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) To: burns@cisco.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? Cc: gmayhew@tornadic.sw.stratus.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com > Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up, > but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it > could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased, > but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local > computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know, > it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it > on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick. > > -- Bill > It's a rear panel--no heat source nearby. The likely cause is vandalism, I guess. I can't figure why the dirt wasn't smudged. I think I can get to the inside of the panel where it's dented by removing the spare tire from the cargo area. There will be less chance of damaging the paint if I push from the inside. I'm definitely not handy at bodywork, so I'll approach it gingerly. Any pointers will be appreciated. George From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 21:43:47 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1993 18:09:25 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: Aluminium frame? I talked to a 1962 series IIa owner today in a near by town, he was as I spoke packing for England. If all goes well he hopes to ship a container brack to Nova Scotia containing one LR and one new frame (made of aluminium!) this idea is new to me. He told me to be in touch and he could by a used one for $800 can. and include it in his shippment. Does anybody know about alumium frames, are they weaker? less durable? Any Knowlegde of this ? David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 7 03:37:49 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Aluminium frame? To: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca (DAVID SPENCER) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 9:28:51 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <009739FC.64313F80.29789@esseX.stfx.ca>; from "DAVID SPENCER" at Oct 6, 93 6:09 pm David, I have never ever seen advertised,heard of,seen in use,or anything else,an aluminium chassis.New chassis are available black painted or galvanised,but steel *not* alloy.So I dont believe it.Had such a chassis been available,it's a pound to a penny that it would have been advertised in the Land Rover Owner magazine.Unless I'm going daft in my old age (not beyond the bounds of possibility)I would have seen it,and I havent. Considering the cost of producing such an item to equal the strength of a steel chassis,the specialised welding required in manufacture, *and* the possible handling characteristics of a vehicle so equipped (a *true* lightweight?),it seems very unlikely. In the remote event of such a thing existing,I still wouldnt trust it.However it *would* be interesting to know where this bloke is going to get it from.Any idea? Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 7 10:02:11 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Sold it ! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 15:46:41 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Hi Folks, I sold the landy! Had to really; this bloke waved 125 20quid notes at me and I bit his arm off (so to speak). Now I'm in the market for a quite old 2 door Rangey. What do our Rangey owners think of them, any buying tips over and above the usual? Best Regards, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 01:56:31 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Aluminium frame? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 23:25:44 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > Does anybody know about alumium frames, are they weaker? less durable? > Any Knowlegde of this ? I have never heard of such a thing. When one steps back and thinks about it, it doesn't really make that much sense. An aluminium frame, to have the same strength as a stell one is going to have to be much thicker. To weld such a thing is not going to be as simple as a steel frame, and when one either galvanises a steel frame, or adds a lot of paint/oil/undercoating, will be much cheaper than the aluminium equivalent when delivered. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 02:08:38 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: front end looks funny Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1993 00:02:20 -0700 From: Ben Smith A few weeks ago I was off roading in the Salton Sea area. While off the track, going about 20 mph I hit a small wash with enough force to blow a thumb sized hole out the sidewall of my right front tire. The front end dropped into the ditch and bounced out. The Ditch was about 3 feet across and 18 inches deep (the front bumper almost ground out on the other side!) Anyway after getting hom later on, I looked at the front end and it looks funny. The tires look like this /----\ witht he right side looking more flaired out than the left. So I jacked up the front end. The balls are firmly attached to the axle case. There is no wiggle when I grabbed the tire by the top and bottom and tried to see if there is any play. So my question is am I seeing things, or is something wrong? The Haynes manuel says that the tires should be inclined 3 degrees inwards, but my mind says what I see is more than 3 degrees. Could I have bent the axle case? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 06:34:02 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Humvees To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:21:56 BST I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers), particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field. Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously like fully independent to me),are they any *good*? I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 10:37:48 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: So what's new? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:25:51 BST Those of you across the pond will know by now that the softtop Ninety which is to be merketed in the States has a side hinging tailgate. On my way in to work after lunch today,I fell in behind a very neat '62 softtop,which,instead of the regular bottom hinged tailgate,featured a rear "Safari" door which had had the top half removed.The owner had used two bottom hinges to hang it with.Made a very nice job.Is nothing new? Rgds Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:12:29 1993 Return-Path: Date: 08 Oct 1993 09:00:41 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/10/08 13:06:10 UT from (M.J.ROOTH) Mike Rooth" Subject: Re: Humvees X-Post: RSFLAGS Mike Rooth writes: >I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees >for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have >seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers), >particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they >actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big >to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field. >Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously >like fully independent to me),are they any *good*? >I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any >technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-) The civilian version of the HUMVEE is called the Hummer. These vehicles are made by AM General of South Bend, IN. The Hummer has a 6.2L V-8 diesel engine made made by General Motors. It delivers full-time power to all four wheels, which are independently suspended. The body is aluminum except for the hood that is fiberglass. The ground clearance is 16", but the vehicle is 7' wide. I have driven one. It is the only vehicle that I would put up against my Range Rover;-) The military life expectancy of the HUMVEE is 12 years. The only hesitation is that its price ranges from $38K to $60K. AM General used to send out a video tape and information. Their number is 1-800-3-HUMVEE. *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:49:40 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: Re: Humvees To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:37:00 EDT In-Reply-To: <"ACUS05 93/10/08 16:00:41.740389"@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM>; from "Paul Anderson" at Oct 08, 93 9:00 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] > > Stuff about humvees deleted - On the north shore of hawaii they are called crabs by the locals, since that is kind of what they look like going down the road. The locals are also always pulling them out of the ditches at some of the army training grounds that the locals use for enduro racing on weekends. Pretty funny seeing a humvee being pulled out by some local in a toyota. of course it could be the well trained army drivers :-) Cheers Dan, '74 88" SIII with non-functioning clutch master cyl. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Code 7420 (202) 767-2024 (voice) Washington D.C. 20375-5320 (202) 767-0167 (fax) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:59:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:48:06 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Humvees I was curious about these so I purchased the service manual from AM General. I don't have it in front of me but the basics are as follows: 6.2L Diesel V8 delivering about 150 HP peak, 250 or so ft-lbs torque. Suspension is independent, coil springs. Hubs are geared allowing drive input to be higher than the hub axis for greater ground clearance. Braking is inboard on at least one and possibly both axles. I believe that the standard transmission is a 3 speed automatic with a 2-speed transfer box. For civilian sales, the body panels are beefed up to US spec. A central tire inflation system is available. And, like LRs, comes in a number of body styles. I've heard that other engines are\ available such as a gasoline 454 which I believe Arnold has in (one) of his. Gov't price is under $30K but after NHSB, DOT, and EPA certs, the civilian goes up quite a bit. Personally, I think of it as a 21st century (and American) version of the LandRover. It's big, it's fast (for the type), and seems to be able to go over most anything. Yes, I would like one... m From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 16:14:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 20:53:46 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: front end fun Ben- I suspect you may have done in your stub axle.....I did that once after grazing a large stone-it didn't move but my stub axle did. I suppose a stub axle will go before you bend an axle case. Another possiblility is that you've damaged your cone and/or your bearing (both within the swivel pin housings)-if that were the case you'd probably notice some stiffness in your steering. rdushin/nigel (who used to tramp about in the salton sea-i am sure he misses it). From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 18:00:28 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:48:15 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Hummers I drove the Hummers in the Gulf. They are very impressive to say the least. And they are big. The common wisdom in the army is that if one gets stuck it is driver error. The problem I see with the thing is that it is BIG. And the tires are so big it can not carry a spare. It also is not very operator-friendly for outback repairs. With the trany and drive line stuck up under it there is only room for four passengers and a small rear cargo area. During the war it was common with the 3rd Cav Regiment to see only two in one with the whole backend filled with what was needed. Like sleeping bags, rucks, food and stuff. The army uses a hard-top version for the MPs and, I must admit, a very nice ambulance version for the medics. But the normal version is hardtop which means no roof racks. I went up some steep rock escarpments with one and was very pleased with it's ability to climb. I have a photo of a Hummer with the grill badge of a Merceds truck on it. But I guess the ultimate experience was a night ride in a Hummer, as a passenger, using only night vision goggels(NVG) and the slugger (global positioning device). The navigator was watching the slugger display and telling the driver simply go right or left. Guy was driving at about 30 to 35 across the desert with no moon, no lights and just the NVG. It took us about 45 minutes to get to the camp but we drove right up to the perimeter guard just like it was daylight. The Brits have hardwired sluggers in many of their mil-Rovers. Anyway that's what I know about the things. They are nice and do hold-up, but I will keep my Series IIA. Roy From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 15:28:05 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 17:14:04 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: evolution Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA It has tail lenses which are like those of more senior relative ie. Nigel and co. but also has windows in the rear instead of closed in sheet metal. The entire body of this lr is in perfect condition. It's almost a shame to "use" it. All seem to be in good running order, except the frame is broken in two just behind the transfer case cross member, so it went cheap. It has been idle for 2 years...I hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this long...and recover? The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. I wonder if they stopped in 1960? In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine block? I must get away frome this terminal and go back out side... David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 18:08:29 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 22:58:37 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution David- Many congrads on the new purchase. I, too, have wondered just when the threaded vent controls were dropped......perhaps those out there with '60-'64 models can shed some light on this. Glad to hear about the rounded lenses (kinda cute, no?? I like the aerodynamic spoilers on them!)-but beware, they are more difficult to replace than the later "coned" versions (and I am told the light assembly is NLA)...thus, if you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing them with more available ones. I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). happy trails, rd/nige (who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post- pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming weeks). From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 21:53:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 23:44:17 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:No time for fun With regards to working and having time to spend with rovers, my recent purchase is bitter sweet. All I can do for now is oil everything and put it in the barn, may I should mop out the float bowl to,if it going to sit all winter? DS. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 00:26:45 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 22:48:23 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA :-) Excellent! > hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run > on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this > long...and recover? Yes, and yes. The rings shouldn't have caused that nuch problem with the bores. > In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's > interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine > block? To my knowledge, they are not interchangeable. The heads are slightly different in the front. I'll check to make sure... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:00:00 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 11:07:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > If you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing > them with more available ones. Only eight this year, two of which were the aerodynamic version. All will be the pointy types from now on. Makes it easier to spear the tree I guess. My Rover now has nice new Ontario plates on it, and even made it through a road trip to Kingston and back yesterday. 'Twas a 200 mile round trip, went through 4 litres of oil, ten gallons of gasoline (Hmmm, the distance must be wrong. 20/mpg? No way...), and one tire that I blew in Kingston. Granted I had a ton of spare parts and tools, but did I remember the lug wrench? Of course not. A quick trip to Canadian tire and the purchase of a 15/16 socket solved that problem. Got to pick up that overdrive. Between 42 and 46 mph makes for one long trip. The cross winds made the 109 steer like a Zepplin, and it didn't matter if I was on the pavement or soft shoulder letting thousands of cars pass. Steering was the same in both places (pretty good actually) > I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so > they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone > out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Have not found the Merseyside catalogue yet, but the RN catalogue does not denote any water pumps pre-Series IIA. When I did it up, I'll check. I have Merseyside sending me a complete print-out of their complete stock, or available parts, so I will probably have to wait until then. Rgds, Dixon BTW, Went down to Kingston to meet my mother and pick up a pair of book shelves she brought up from Toronto. Considering that she has been badgering me for years to "grow up" and scrap all of my cars (TR-7's, Mini's, Cortina) and get something modern and nice, she thought the Land Rover was "a scream", took lots of photos of it. I finally found a vehicle that she likes... :-) (Didn't tell her I had picked up an 88 though, or the condition to justify the $25 spent to purchase it...) > (who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post- > pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming > weeks). -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:17:54 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: RE:No time for fun From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 10:57:09 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > With regards to working and having time to spend with rovers, my recent > purchase is bitter sweet. All I can do for now is oil everything and put > it in the barn, may I should mop out the float bowl to,if it going to > sit all winter? DS. Well, if you are really keen you would put it in the barn, and put it up on blocks so the suspension can hang. Otherwise, I wouldn't clean out the float bowl as I would suggest that you go out there once a month and run it for a little while to keep everything lubricated. BTW, your address denotes you residing at St. FX. You are not going to get the little beast on the road? It would be quite the status symbol with the students there... :-) (I went to Bishop's and am somewhat familiar with your locale) What are you taking/teaching that is going to preclude work on the important things/toys in life? You new aluminium friend, I am sure, would just love some attention and tlc. Rgds, Dixon (From the hot air capital of Canada, and looking forward to seeing the decendent of one of St. Fx's notorious alumni blown away in the upcoming federal election.) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 15:24:39 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 20:11:44 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: consumption >'Twas a 200 mile round trip, went through 4 litres of oil, ten gallons of gasoline (Hmmm, the distance must be wrong. 20/mpg? No way...)- but 50 mpl sounds about right! :-) rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 04:27:04 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: consumption From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 02:09:04 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > but 50 mpl sounds about right! I think it is time to start adding 10w40 or something similar. The temperature is about -9c right now, was about 2c this morning. It took me two hours to get the Rover to start. The 20w50 acted like glue and drained my battery several times trying to get it to fire. Granted a new battery would probably be a good idea, but it was a bit much. Have to give RN a call Tuesday and see what they have in the line of block heaters for the 2.25l engine. Since it can hit -40c here, it might be a good idea. So might a second battery... Rgds, Dixon BTW, it snowed lightly here today... :-( (Far to early, though I am looking forward to ploughing through feet of the stuff in.) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 08:38:08 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: So what's new? To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 14:22:55 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310081525.AA17949@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 8, 93 4:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Mike said; > On my way in to work after lunch today,I fell in behind a very neat > '62 softtop,which,instead of the regular bottom hinged tailgate,featured > a rear "Safari" door which had had the top half removed.The owner had > used two bottom hinges to hang it with.Made a very nice job. > Is nothing new? No, I had this on my old Lightweight (non-standard). Good to hang the spare on. Best Regards, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 11:15:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:00:42 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: Re: evolution while into purchasing Land Rovers, I saw two for sale and one being parted out on Sunday. In case anyone is in the market here are the details: 1966 109 Land Rover military (two door and long hard top). 4 cyl, over drive new carb, new tyres. The car looks very solid and clean There is no rust on it. Michael Pennington owns it. He is asking $10,000 (It is a very clean, nice car). I believe he is in the Sonoma California area. 510-256-7727 home, 415-455-8917 work. Jim Howat is storing a light gray 109 two door with soft top that I believe is for sale for $4K. Drive train seems solid except compression is low in one cylinder. Its a nice looking basic LR. It is located in Concord CA. Contact Jims shop answering machine at 510-686-2255. Jim is also parting out an 88. If anyone wants to tow away an 88 minus front axle, engine and gear box I suspect you can do so very cheaply. As I recall the frame looks good and the body panels are sound. Oh The owner of the military 109 is also selling 1970 Jag XJ6, with rebuilt engine, great interior and no rust for $5000, and a 1964 Austin Cooper S MKI Station Wagon that has two car show wins. He wants $14K for that one. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 11:50:40 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:34:15 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: So what's new? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Mike, I was looking at some Land Rovers this weekend on my way home from Triumphfest. The recessed opening for the door handle on rear door is higher than the topless sides of a Land Rover. If one were to cut a standard series II or later door down and add a second hinge, it would fit about4 or 5 inches higher than the surrounding body unless someone did some major bodywork. I also saw a series I longbed that had a rear door fitted. The series I rear door had a removable top half and both hinges attached to the body. I have no idea if the seires I rear door fits onto a series II, but I suspect not. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 13:21:50 1993 Return-Path: To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: evolution and Rochester Carbs Date: 11 Oct 1993 11:06 PDT Organization: California Institute of Technology News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4 In article <00973C50.27C23BC0.5782@esseX.stfx.ca>, DAVID SPENCER writes... >Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA >It has tail lenses which are like those of more senior relative >ie. Nigel and co. but also has windows in the rear instead of closed >in sheet metal. The entire body of this lr is in perfect condition. >It's almost a shame to "use" it. All seem to be in good running >order, except the frame is broken in two just behind the transfer case >cross member, so it went cheap. It has been idle for 2 years...I >hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run >on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this >long...and recover? Good find! Dixon writes of replacing the light assemblies. If I recall, one of these lenses had a clear inset to illuminate the registration plate. If you replace the lamp, you may need to add a seperate light for the plate. >The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. >I wonder if they stopped in 1960? Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those on the Series I. >In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's >interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine >block? Sorry, the Series II pump has a different casting, although (as I think Dixon also said), they do take the same rebuild kit. The Series IIA front engine cover puts the water pump higher, which will hit the Series II cylinder head, so you can't change front covers ( to get the later water pump) unless you also change to a IIA head. >I must get away frome this terminal and go back out side... >David S. *** BAck in September, you asked about details on Rochester carbs. Did you get much response; I'm curious what you found out. I've used them for years on several Rovers. They're the best carb I found--run well, easily re-jetted, and simple. When I could buy them new, the part no. was Delco short number 21-300. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to mean much to rebuilders. I don't think the tag on my carb is right, I had to trade the bowl for the right one. I do know the right one has: cable choke, smallest venturi, and smallest throttle body for a single barrel model. If you want, I can take the top off and send you the part no.'s that are stamped on the air horn and the float chamber body. I don't think there is a # on the throttle body. Use a #48 jet around sea level. They usually come with a #52, which is too rich. Regards, Randy Rose Pasadena, California (818)395-3840 rsrose@iago.caltech.edu California Institute of Technology From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 23:23:18 1993 Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM> From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Subject: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 21:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 177 What is the general consensus on freewheeling hubs on a Rover? Is it worth the $195US (RN) to reduce the wear and tear on the front axle, etc? Are there any other benefits? From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 03:41:09 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 9:31:03 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Oct 11, 93 9:53 pm Definitely.I havent got them,and they are well at the top of my "improvement"list.(The other list is "replacement",which takes precedence).I ran for a short while without the front prop shaft because a U.J had gone noisy,and the difference was beyond belief.Ran much more smoothly,fuel consumption imroved etc. When you consider I was still,even then,pushing the front diff round,it speaks for itself.Tyre wear is also said to be reduced as well.Go for it. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 08:56:03 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark Moore Subject: Air vent styles To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 7:32:22 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > >>The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. >>I wonder if they stopped in 1960? > >Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle >control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're >impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those >on the Series I. > Actually, the late Series II production dipped into 1961. The vent controls on the '61 109 are still the screw type. -- Mark --0- -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator R/E/FS2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 09:00:10 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 08:27:48 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: cool morning problems resolved... cd ~/maillogs It was a cool morning here in Missouri and Lulu was ready for her daily drive. I complained a little at her but in the end was pondering whose problem was it. I was griping about having to wipe the dew from both the outside AND INSIDE of all the windows. Don't have to do that with a civilized car that sleeps in a garage. (Lulu can't set in the driveway or garage for long periods cause she has this problem of holding it in). But when I got to work and looked back, I noticed how clean she looked and thought -- was that a design point by Solihull? In wiping the dew from the windows, I had also spruced up the car by wiping off a couple of weeks of road dust... (the fact that I had left the sliders open for 3 days didn't cloud my mind -- Japanese cars have better manners, I'd said). And I was mumbling about the "sticky steering wheel in humid wheather problem", too. I had to drive all the way to work utilizing one of those red rags that seem to be standard equipment on older land rovers (but then again, my 87 RR has them so maybe they come from the factory). The walk from the parking lot to the office was a bit brisk, so maybe I was at fault for not bringing my old beat up driving gloves. And the Temperature Control switch is so hard to open and close that I had to pull hard to get that blast of heat from the old Kodiak heater. But the contrast between the cool morning air and the blast of heat did make me pause about how beautiful a morning it was. (Would I have noticed it if the automatic temperature control of an upscale heater had done the hard work for me). Oh, well -- just some ideas that went thru my head on the way to work this morning. I think I will stick with Lulu for awhile longer. And maybe I could make it up a little by looking after a few of her long postponed ailments... ...oh yes, I don't have a very sophisticated mailing package so I will try to remember to append pertinent information manually. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 09:20:05 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark Moore Subject: winter oils To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 8:02:43 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > >u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > >> but 50 mpl sounds about right! > > I think it is time to start adding 10w40 or something similar. The > temperature is about -9c right now, was about 2c this morning. It > took me two hours to get the Rover to start. The 20w50 acted like > glue and drained my battery several times trying to get it to fire. > Granted a new battery would probably be a good idea, but it was a > bit much. Have to give RN a call Tuesday and see what they have in > the line of block heaters for the 2.25l engine. Since it can hit > -40c here, it might be a good idea. So might a second battery... You might also try switching to a synthetic oil. I've found them to be a quite bit better at retaining viscosity at low temperatures. -- Mark --0- -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator R/E/FS2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 19:26:55 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:53:21 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:vent controls Woww..seems that we can nearly isolate a 6 month period during which they retooled from threaded vents to levers. I love the athetics of the threaded controls but it is point well taken about meeting folks on a duty road etc. and having only a second to get the thing closed. so...sometime late in 1961 they switched?, with some period of over lap. pointless pursiut perhaps but interesting......ds From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 19:35:02 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 21:06:14 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:bizare typo's Geeeee...I dunno about most folks, but as a dylexic producing them typo's begin to be less entertaining as the years go by.... sorry..." duty road" should read "dusty road" on that last post RE: vent controls....oops what's the expression? Dyslexic's of the world untie! ds. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:21 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: So what's new? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:59:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada writes: TeriAnn, Merseyside order is here and in the living room and across the backyard. Now I wnt all of the goodies :-) Springs, swivel balls, and over drive, basically engough parts to completely rebuild an 88 and 109, or partialy rebuild a few 88's. Giving it all up will be tough... Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:44 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:55:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) writes: > What is the general consensus on freewheeling hubs on a Rover? Is it > worth the $195US (RN) to reduce the wear and tear on the front axle, etc? > Are there any other benefits? IMHO, freewheeling hubs are great. However, I would locate a pair on a dead Land Rover and use those before I shelled out US$390+ for the hubs. They should be available used. Most Land Rovers up here use them, in fact it is rare to see one without them. Other benefits? A quieter ride, better gas mileage. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:26:02 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 17:26:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No mention of the Series II. Rgds, BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 13:09:35 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: ski racks ? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 13:49:40 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Hello - Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their Land Rover. I called Thule's information and there was some confussion on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Thanks in advance. Dan, 74, 88" Series III w/ working clutch, rebuilt slave & master cyl. dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 14:20:42 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: ski racks ? To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. > > I called Thule's information and there was some confussion > on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They > said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance > between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 > was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Dan: I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these) The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it. The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor). Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California, 95521, USA Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive, Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5 To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack" with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford these racks) If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me... --Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 15:20:36 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: ski racks ? To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. > > I called Thule's information and there was some confussion > on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They > said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance > between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 > was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Dan: I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these) The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it. The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor). Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California, 95521, USA Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive, Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5 To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack" with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford these racks) If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me... --Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 17:02:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:49:00 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: thanks Dixon wrote: >> out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No mention of the Series II. Rgds, BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals. Thanks for checkin' on the pump-I figured the Merseyside catalogue had the best shot of listing one (and I don't have one but probably should). As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description. BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80. Thanks again, rdushin/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 17:11:35 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:58:49 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: gheeze Bud- actually caught a little bit o' soul train last week and noticed that the hip dude was not there-they had some young chump who lacked all the soul and character of that guy. just not gonna be the same without him...... also got wet as hell last night. had to stick it out at lab, all soaked, thighs to toe, and head as well (lost my umbrella and was wearing my barbour- works great over all the covered areas...........). ended up freezeing my buns off at work until i could no longer take it. STILL haven't started writing yet. finished getting a collection of references together but have WAY too many (about 350). having to weed them out on the basis of titles and abstracts (I only have about half of them with abstracts) alone is not easy......i can eliminate some but not all. and my 2 week extension is almost up! gonna be doing the full weekend of work scene-not sure you wanna join me. rd From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 21:34:44 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:19:33 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? (I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88 AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though: -- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about $70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy hub to round out the lot... -- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair... They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and "...no spares were available..." -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that means something to me. I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but I will try RN first. Sorry, just got a little riled. FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or otherwise... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 22:48:04 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 22:34:55 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? (I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88 AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though: -- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about $70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy hub to round out the lot... -- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair... They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and "...no spares were available..." -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that means something to me. I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but I will try RN first. Sorry, just got a little riled. FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or otherwise... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:16:59 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: ski racks ? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:47:52 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Dan Chayes writes: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. No rack, but considering the height of my Land Rover, I would need a ladder to get at it. Other LR's that have good springs (the alternative tend to be a bit common here) have the same problem. So, you either very tall, have flat springs, or just very energetic... :-) Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:38:47 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: thanks From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:52:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me > with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time > or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they > don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and > when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description. > BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer > one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80. Well, we are still trying to identify these. Series II seems to fit, though colour is a bit light, they have the clear plastic insert for illuminating a license plate. They are also 3.5" in diameter. Price, for these particular lights are 1.90 pounds for the lenses alone, 4.90 pounds for the complete assembly. These price are for 2.5 - 3.5 lenses. Note, they are not genuine. However, looking at the LR's up here, they seem to have a mixture of lenses, depending on where they were stolen from. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 02:48:40 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 23:35:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The > one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. I don't know about Missouri, but in the depths of winter plastics just doesn't hack it when they are locked up solid. At least with brass you can beat them, use force, or a propane torch to make them co-operate. Plastic wouldn't last 30 seconds here. There isn't much plastic that I would trust to last 20 years of use either. > -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they > said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained > the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. :-) Now that the Defender is here, maybe they will change their tune, but again, who cares. Alternative sources are available who know what a Land Rover is. > So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, > and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that > 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that > means something to me. Actually the rebuild kit supplied is pretty simple. One could make the parts without too much effort. It is the internals, gears and such, that I am accumulating spares of. Including those on the 109, I have three sets of hubs now. > I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts > and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* > premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop > the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but > I will try RN first. Don't get me wrong, RN is a good outfit. In fact when it comes to parts suppliers in North America they are probably the best. They generally know what they are talking about, and have experience in rebuilding and repairing our aged beasts. However, their prices are a bit dear. I keep UK and NA catalogues about and compare not only price, but shipping, time, availability and the like when I need something. Besides, 27 pounds for springs is hard to beat over here, and who cares if they come via sea. Of course, our problem with RN is the fact that the Canadian dollar is approaching lira levels of value. I have to add approx. 30 cents on the dollar to RN prices. Around here, RN's only real competition is Atlantic British, but we shall refrain from commenting on them . > FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. > The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail > of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize > the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or > otherwise... You will enjoy less wear on your front drivetrain, less road noise, better gas milage. An excellent purchase. The rebuilders discount is a good idea of theirs, but the MLRS price was 388 and when you have 900 kilogrammes of parts already on the way, tossing in an overdrive doesn't add much to the shipping costs. Of course, I am a poor one to comment as I have gone off and picked up a used Fairie overdrive despite my comments here on avoiding such, but hey, under half price who could resist... :-) Overdrives are a good idea though. The benefits certainly justify one, especially when one loses some of that feeling that you are parked in the middle of an divided highway as you amble along at a noble and dignified pace, unlike the cretins (like myself at times) playing speed racer and doing the unposted 75mph limit on our highways. The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is, imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-( Hmmm, gasoline is about 2.70 an imperial gallon here, I get some 15 miles per gallon, an overdrive will increase my top speed by about ten mph from 45 to 55 mph. Keeping numbers simple, this represends say a fifteen percent increase in fuel efficiency, or some 40 cents a gallon. Divide that into the cost of an overdrive and you don't have to drive that far to justify owning one. Of course, gasoline is cheap in the USA so milage may vary. Rgds, Dixon (Whom others here would say steers his Landie like a Zeppelin in the forest, generally going backwards too...) Trivia: When a heavy winch cable snaps in the dark it make a pretty yellow flash where it parts. How do I know? Well, we snapped one Sunday evening pulling over fifty foot cedars to make a road and gather/create posts and rails for a fence. (Koneig winches driven off the crank are greatm but we gotta get a tackle block. It is a real bummer when the tree lands on top of you. Yeah, we pull them towards us, but they are only cedars. Light and fluffy like at the top. The larger Elm we helped/guided down last week we had a hundred fifty feet of heavy rope to get farther away. Word of warning here though. Make sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb nailed ours :-( Bummer... ) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 03:47:21 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Zeppelins To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:54:02 CST Priority: #1 land-rover, 2 Coopers ale. In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 13, 93 11:35 pm Sorry I could'nt resist Dixon writes > The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is, > imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large > semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-( For some real fun Imagine what its like when you're '66 109 H/top is doing 140 Kmh (85+ mph) along a single car width bitumen "highway", and you have to pull off onto the verge to allow a Road Train (a semi with 3 tri axle trailers) whose going warp speed to pass you. YEE HAH, the adrenalin pumps for ages. (Un) Fortunately this cant happen now as the R/trains are speed limited to 100k (60 mph) but until 1992 the sky was the limit. 100 tonnes of 50metre long road train going 160+ Kmh was something scary to get out the way of FAST! Still I'd rather do that sort of thing in a rover than any of the jap 4x4's, ,at least the rovers tend to stay on all 4's unlike a certain Toyota 4x4's (hilux's and 4 runners) As an aside we still dont have an open road speed limit in the N.T. :-) > Make sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb nailed ours :-( Bummer... ) This sort of natural disaster could *never* happen in the Northern Territory, we have our priorities well sorted out ;-) Cheers Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon _-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" v From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 04:08:54 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Rear Light Lenses To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 9:58:52 BST The problem with lenses is rife here,too.A couple of years ago I backed into a farm trailer (who the hell left *that* there)and cracked a lens. All thee Land Rover parts dealers I rang said something like"You'll have to bring it,so we can have a look".Seems the vareity was unending.I eventually was given one (now that's what I call a *good* deal).It's difficult,too,to define original in this context,because my rear lights are labelled "Sparto",but I'd hazard a good guess they arent replacements. Looks as though Land Rover fitted whatever they thought appropriate,and never mind who made them! On another tack,would those amongst us who have things like poorly water pumps,please post in a whisper,so mine cant hear.It was all right until yesterday,but I still spent a very wet afternoon replacing the thing. Has anyone else noticed this tendency among Land Rovers?You park alongside another Rover and they *talk*.Then they *both* throw the same sort of wobbler.When I first got mine,it was parked alongside a S111 diesel on a daily basis,for about an hour a day.It got to the stage where we were buying two off everything,'cos if one went wrong,you could bet your boots the other would think"what a good idea" and do the same thing a day later. Eventually we separated them,parked at opposite ends of the yard,which cured the problem.Apparently they cant shout.And NEVER say MOT in their hearing.Ever. Dixon,your mention of a block heater ste me wondering how the guy in the OVLR copes with his diesel in winter.So far,touch wood,I havent had staring problems taht werent electrical,but I'd be interested to know how a diesel copes in your sort of climate.Or perhaps he just doesnt use it, but I'm sure I remember reading about it sometime last winter. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 09:51:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:11:50 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: strange problems with the lro list or whatever??? I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called. I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle. I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com. I get frustrated and quit and then I see the append the next day??? I guess what I am asking is for a couple of you to append with the mail-to address of the listserv for appending. I had a lot of trouble getting added in the first place and it took about 3 weeks for that to happen. And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know doesn't work. I just want a smooth proceedure to add a couple of lines of insite, wit, facts, opinion, etc. to the lro-log. Not complaining, I really enjoy the dialog, just want to join in sometimes without thinking too much. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:04:53 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:50:33 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? Ray, I just checked my Mersyside Land Rover Services catalogue. They have Fairy overdrives for 342 pounds. Thats about US$500. I USED to be a Rovers North fan. But I received a few shipments of wrong parts, and some advice that certain parts would fit when they wouldn't. I listened to Dixon, and when I went to the UK, detoured to Merseyside and stopped off at Merseyside Land Rover Services. I did the math and discovered that even with shipping, I could get most parts for 1/2 to 2/3rds less than what Rovers North charges. And air freight from the UK takes about as long to get to California as does UPS ground. The only disadvantage is it takes a couple of hours to go get the parts and clear them through customs. I was on the Rovers North 20% rebuild programme too. Now I'm on the UK parts direct 50-60% discount programme and chuckling everytime i look at the Rovers North price list. inexpensive parts make my Land Rover smile from over rider to over rider :*) TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:30:02 1993 Return-Path: To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: strange problems with the lro list or whatever??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:11:50 CDT." <9310141411.AA16234@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:18:31 -0400 From: William Caloccia I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called. I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle. > I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from > both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com. What you are probably seeing is that there is a bounce from some subscriber(s) of the list whom no longer exist. The message, as you sent it is sent to everyone (though it seems to take a while to get back to you), and you get a bounce back from one of these 'bad' addresses (which I make an effort to clean up occasionally. If your bounce notifcation is From: Postmaster@*.stratus.com, then I would be interested in seeing the headers and mail. However if it is not From: *.stratus.com, but from some other place, send it on its way to the bit-bucket. Thanks, -- Bill > And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve > the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands > from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know > doesn't work. At the present we don't have an archiver, or list server (though I'm trying to get Majordomo up to be a list server, but I need to pester my SysAdmin...) -- Bill From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 13:44:19 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:27:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Ok, (weird) question number 1: Ok, for many moons now I've been debating with my self over whether I should get a soft top, or a roof rack for my IIa 88" Logically, the roof rack is what I want (for travelling, for transporting, for a mobile platform to set my tri-pod on and take photographs from...) Knowing that I'm going with a roof rack, is there any way I can still have a soft-top ? Now, this seems like an entirely nutty question, but what I'm thinking of is the '93 US Defender 110" with the external roll cage... IFF I could put on a soft top, and work a roll cage into the truck, I could put the roof rack (length of the bed) on that... Has anyone see anything like this before ? Is it entirely crazy ? (does that matter ?) Is there anything seriously deficient with this idea ? (I've got a good friend who does (AWESOME) custom race car roll cages for fun and profit, he hates the ordinary, but is intrigued by the extra ordinary...) Ok, question #2: I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal). However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner. Is this correct ? Comments on what else to look for in a rebuild #3: Ok, after lusting over newer Rovers, I figured that for the amount I'd pay in road tax for the first couple years, that same money would go a long way toward making my 88" a _great_ vehicle, and save me from making further donations to the state, or interest payments to the bank... So I've got a '69 IIa 88" with (supposedly) 60,000 original miles I'm at the point where I want to fix more of my rover before I drive it more. So next year I figure I'll be pulling the body parts off and doing the following: chassis and mechanicals: - re-tempering the springs * - bead blast & re-finish what is left of the frame + lots of mounts and things - replace the other brake lines - new wiring * - engine + hardened valves ? other head stuff ? + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it - transmission / transfer case + do seals*, check gears + add overdrive + serious brake work * (time for drums I think) + front shaft u-joints * + shocks/dampers * + exhaust heat sheild * body: + new foot boxes * + install mud sheilds * (they finished rotting off just about when the foot boxes rotted through) + significant welding on the firewall - strip & paint the body panels + window channel *, door seals *, etc. - front window-washer (something that hasn't worked since I've owned it) all the '*' items are definite need-to-replace type items. I know you haven't seen my IIa, but perhaps those of you with similar experiences might suggest things I've overlooked ? [ I'm half tempted to drive over to AB and let them look it over for further suggestions, but I'm not likely to buy parts there.] The only mod's this Rover has from a stripped station wagon is that it has Warn locking hubs. In the last couple thousand miles I've fitted a Delco Altenator, a used rear diff, a water-pump, wheel bearings, fuel pump diaphram, and most track rod ends, etc. Previous owners did a not-so-good job of alligning spring perches when they welded them on the frame, and I've replaced the two front out-riggers. For you folks who import from the U.K. to the U.S., can you have an idea of what the custom's duty is ? and Merryside's address (do they have a catalog or price list ?) --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 15:31:07 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:12:51 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Bill, I assume you have a "Genuine Rover" rear tire carrier. It is designed to fit between the sheet metal (steel) ribs in the door and there is only one place that it fits... too low! It was made to use with the pintle hitch, but the tire hits a ball hitch. You can move it up but it requires moving one of the ribs. This is not difficult if you have some welding equipment and can weld the thin gage stuff. Another reason to move it up is the fact that the tire has been known to get pushed into the rear window when going down a steep embankment. When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. Regards, Bill G. > Ok, question #2: > > I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal). > However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to > put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the > door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard > location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner. > > Is this correct ? > > > --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase > | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" > OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:22:05 1993 Return-Path: To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:12:51 PDT." <9310142012.AA07968@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:03:32 -0400 From: William Caloccia > When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing > that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. > I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" > above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to the door fram near the lower hinge. The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the extra support the tyre could use. (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow me to carry a tire back there !) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:33:31 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Polling all tires To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:27:08 CDT Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com This is bound to unleash a flurry of controversy. I wanted to poll everyone on what type of tires they are running and why. The stock tire called for is a 205R15 which is not available today. I believe the older tires translate to just over an 80 series profile. The only bum steer I have ever received from Rover's North was concerning this question. Lanny told me that the stock rims were "pretty wide" and to shod (maybe he said shoot) it with 30x950R15. He even suggested some of the newer B.F.Goodrich 33x950R15 that are now being made. After doing my own research, I found out that the stock rim is only 6" wide and that the tires Laney suggested require a 7.5" to 8" rim (one has to wonder if this means they are running Rovers with tires that are accidents waiting to happen). Besides, who wants a monster truck that bounces up and down all the time. I thought I had always read that Rovers did better with the narrower tires anyway (narrow tire advocates, step in here. Wide tire advocates, you too. It seems to me that there are times where one or the other works best, but that narrower work best on just about everything except maybe mud and certain types of snow and improve gas mileage along the way to boot). I was impressed with the CR rating of the Dunlop Radial Rover (not just the name, but it's a nice perk). They also rated it as the quietest tire in the all-terrain class. Being concerned about an accurate speedometer & odometer, I decided to try the 215/75R15 because its profile was the closest to the original (the wider a tire the greater its diameter - therefore a 215 tire is taller than a 205). While these made the Rover handle and respond like a Mini- Cooper (o.k....almost) I wanted a higher profile tire regardless of speedometer accuracy...I mean, aside from the ground clearance issue, I paid $700 for an overdrive, I want to get my money's worth out of it. Upon closer examination, I also discovered that these are P-metric, passenger car tires with 4-ply not 6-ply belting as in an LT tire - which I had assumed they were (apparently most manufacturers LT's start with 235 size and go up - one or two do make LT215's). Also no one makes LT 85 series tires in 15 like they do for 16 inch tires. It helps to buy tires somewhere they have a thirty-day guarantee, the 215's were replaced with LT235/75R15's and I could not be happier. They're taller, track extremely well, are quiet, I don't bounce all over the road and they have a good tread design for off-road use. When I started out on this venture I was considering going with 16" rims but they are basically not available used and new is out of my price range right now. Even used Range Rover cast alloys are prohibitively expensive when they can be found. Anyway, the height differential for the same type of tire in 16 inch is only one inch (which only translates into a half-inch vehicle height difference). The advantage, however, to 16 inch rims is the availability of 85 series tires. So for instance, a 235/85R16 tire has a diameter of 31.6" compared with my 235/75R15's 29.6". That's a height difference of 2.6" (or 1.3" vehicle ground clearance) and revolutions per mile work out to be 676 versus 741 or about a 10% improvement on top end and gas mileage! So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A LT265/75R16's on them. Paul 1973 88 Series III From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:50:03 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:41:11 CDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310142103.AA01818@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:03 pm What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark of a REAL Rover. Paul 1973 88 Series III (tire on the hood) > > > When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing > > that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. > > I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" > > above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. > > I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to > the door fram near the lower hinge. > > The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the > extra support the tyre could use. > > (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow > me to carry a tire back there !) > > -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:53:43 1993 Return-Path: To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:41:11 CDT." <199310142141.AA22003@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:41:11 -0400 From: William Caloccia > They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they > do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark > of a REAL Rover. This is half true. > What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? I though everyone carried *two* spares. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:06:26 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:58:31 CDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310142141.AA01939@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:41 pm > > > > They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they > > do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark > > of a REAL Rover. > > This is half true. > > > What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? > > I though everyone carried *two* spares. > O.K., you got me there, although whats wrong with the second spare mounted behind the front seats? I'm in need of a new rear door because the previous owner had the tire on it and the door is bent to hell. For all the great engineering they did on Rovers, they did some goofy stuff for some of the smaller detail items - they must have put one of their summer intern engineering students on the design of the rear door and carrier. -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:09:54 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dd@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Diesel Starting and winter From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 16:37:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth asked how I get my 68 Land Rover started in the winter. The short answer is with great difficulty. Last winter I had starter motor problems, one day it would turn over, the next it wouldn't. Things that I have tried include boosting (the power drain can almost stall the car giving the boost), adding a SMALL amount of gasoline to the diesel fuel, block heaters, two batteries, andf the ever exciting pull start. I say exciting because last year, I was pulled by a friend in a Jimmy (I hope noone saw this). As we drove up the smow covered streets, I lift up on the clutch and start sliding from side of the street. The oil in the rear axle being frozen solid. We decided to find clear pavement, and with a reasuring cracking noise from the rear axle and a half mile later It had started. I should have better luck this year (rebuilt starter) Dale (Diesel) Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:17:19 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:05:31 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Subject: Re: Polling all tires '64 88 7.50 x 16 michelin XC4 m&s on stock 109 (6.5" wide) rims, with tubes, carry two spares, one bonnet, one rear door "No hill too steep, no ditch too deep!" Just last month at Pyramid Lake, Nevada a friend who drives a Toyota pick- up (puke) with WIDE tires on CHROME rims got stuck trying to launch a ski boat off the beach. Pulled him out. Pulled the boat out. (He decided to take it to the concrete ramp). He hooked the boat up to his truck again, and got stuck in loose sand. Pulled him out again. He said, "I've just gained a whole new respect for your little red Rover and those skinny tires". He told me the other day he was looking for a Rover. R, bg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:46:51 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:35:03 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com > I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to > the door fram near the lower hinge. > I made a frame for the square plate of the stock tire carrier out of angle iron. The extra supports are welded to this frame, top and bottom. > The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the > extra support the tyre could use. > I think the factory did this on later models. Just get another hinge like the one on the bottom, make sure it's "in line" with the other two. I think it important that the holes, where the bolts that go through the door frame have steel tubes brazed in them. They prevent the bolts from crushing the frame when tightened. Look at the way the factory did it and copy. Drill 5/16 hole all the way through, then on the inside only, drill to just fit the outside diameter of the tube that you're using. Cut the tube so that about 1/16" sticks out, braze only the inside joint so you're not close to the aluminum (alumininum, if you insist) skin and your lovly paint job. put a bolt and nut tight through the tube while brazing so the tube is tight against the inside of the frame on the outside. Huh? You get it. Sheesh, that looks nice and strong now. R, bg Spares at both ends From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 18:58:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 23:46:19 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: warning and.. Two things- First: complaints about weird msgs have appeared recently. I think most of these are due (as pointed out by Bill) to "expired users". One very recent one was my fault-a personal msg ended up on this list. (sorry folks-but anyone else out there into "soul train"??) Second: a word of warning to those who want a soft top (and more to whomever wants a roof rack on his or her soft top). although it has been a long while since I had the pleasure of having one, I do recall that soft tops, especially seasoned soft tops, have a tendancy to rip VERY EASILY when wet. If it is raining, and you are dry beneath the aged canvas, DO NOT touch it. Yes, even a touch-the lightest touch, can be enough to destroy an (older) soft top.....despite this, I still want one, but it will have to wait until next year. rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 02:51:23 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Polling all tires From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 01:18:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes: > So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has > and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises > along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no > means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure > from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due > this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A > LT265/75R16's on them. Firestone, 4 ply, bias ply tires. 16" rims, 100% profile. They are 7.5" tires and are very tall and narrow looking. They look magnificent, are unavailable un North America, and mine are pushing 25 years old. They are available in the UK though. Now, these tires are very agressive and great in a swamp. On a highway, I get the Zeppelin effect, hence my idea at getting some more 16" rims and putting radials on them for the highway driving. Changine tires takes little time, and for the swamp runs would quickly do so. What tires you should get depends on what you are going to use your Landie for. Highway driving? Get some radials and avoid the bias ply. To add to the controversy, I'd say get 100% profile and get that extra height for ground clearane, top speed etc. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:15:14 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 01:16:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada William Caloccia writes: > The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the > extra support the tyre could use. > > (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow > me to carry a tire back there !) If you brace the rear panel where the third hinge will go. Otherwise you will have structural problems. I have seen it done, and looks nice, but is not that easy considering the weight of the tire. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:15:20 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Zeppelins From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:45:02 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) writes: > For some real fun Imagine what its like when you're '66 109 H/top is doing > 140 Kmh (85+ mph) along a single car width bitumen "highway", 85mph in a 109? You're nuts. I can't see one doing more than 70,ph before road wander beings to get really un-nerving... > This sort of natural disaster could *never* happen in the Northern Territory, > we have our priorities well sorted out ;-) You don't have any trees to worry about nailing the beer cooler... :-) Rgds -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:33:36 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Rear Light Lenses From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:47:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth writes: > Dixon,your mention of a block heater ste me wondering how the guy in > the OVLR copes with his diesel in winter.So far,touch wood,I havent had > staring problems taht werent electrical,but I'd be interested to know how > a diesel copes in your sort of climate.Or perhaps he just doesnt use it, > but I'm sure I remember reading about it sometime last winter. The fires of hell won't make a diesel start in our winters... Dale is known to build fires under his, using stoves and the like in vain hopes of getting it to fire. It can be rather amusing to watch... *Really* big batteries help, as does 10w40 rather than 20w50. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:50:44 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: strange problems with the lro list or whatever??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:50:17 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro > listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called. You are probably receiving all... > I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle. > I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from > both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com. Once and a while some list members run away, leaving unattended mailboxs that overflow and cause bounces back to the sender. (Poor netequite I know) I am getting two at this time per message, but when vaction is over, they will go away. Just delete t5he bounces, unless the message states that the recipient is no longer with the company. In that case send a note to lro-reqtest@stratus.com and inform the list manager of the fact. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 03:59:53 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: warning and.. To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) (dushin russell) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 9:47:29 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310142346.AA42025@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 14, 93 11:46 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] rd/nigel says: > I do recall that soft tops, > especially seasoned soft tops, have a tendancy to rip VERY EASILY when wet. > If it is raining, and you are dry beneath the aged canvas, DO NOT touch it. > Yes, even a touch-the lightest touch, can be enough to destroy an (older) > soft top..... Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top); I've regularly dragged my soft top thro' trees in the pouring rain and it's twenty years old. Makes a heck of a scraping noise, but we stay dry. I'd buy a hard top for snowy countries or general security reasons, neither of which bothers me presently. You can take of the soft tops quickly on sunny days - can't beat the feeling! Best Regards, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 04:07:42 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 00:56:14 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada William Caloccia writes: > Knowing that I'm going with a roof rack, is there any way I can still > have a soft-top ? Remove hard top, replace with soft top. Two person job and about five minutes of effort at most. > Now, this seems like an entirely nutty question, but what I'm > thinking of is the '93 US Defender 110" with the external roll cage... If the roll cage is like that of the 110 that came over last year, the cage precludes the removal of the hardtop, assuming that the 90 came with a hardtop. If it is a softtop, and has a 110 style roll cage, forget putting a hard top on. > IFF I could put on a soft top, and work a roll cage into the truck, > I could put the roof rack (length of the bed) on that... How do you get the soft top over the roof rack? Holes will be required in the soft top, complications will arise... It is beginning to sound like work. > Is it entirely crazy ? (does that matter ?) Is there anything > seriously deficient with this idea ? No, but you are looking at a lot of playing to switch between modes. I'd pick one or the other per season and go with that. > I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal). > However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to > put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the > door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard > location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner. Hitch is too high, or your tires are too large. The rear tire carrier will mount a 15" rim and tire and leave the hitch free to tow something. Problems arise with 16" rims and 100% profile tires. > chassis and mechanicals: > > - re-tempering the springs * Hate to say this, but it is cheaper to buy new ones from the UK. > - bead blast & re-finish what is left of the frame Good idea. > + lots of mounts and things Replace the lot. They are cheap. > - replace the other brake lines Good idea depending when they were last replaced. The only line that is a pain is the one going from the junction to front left wheel. Bending that one is no fun, so do it when the body iis off and you are finished playing with the frame. > - new wiring * Usually not necessary. How bad is it? > - engine > + hardened valves ? other head stuff ? > + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it If it requires it and you will have it apart, sure. Hardened seats are about all I see the head needing, besides a good decoking job. Ne guides, though they should be fine. Milage seems to be low. If you redo the rings, hone the bores while you are at it. > - transmission / transfer case > + do seals*, check gears Sure, though seals and bearings are the important part. Do a visual imspection to see if you have teeth missing. I would bet that you don't. > + add overdrive :-) > + serious brake work * (time for drums I think) Maybe, maybe not. If you want to do brakes, get new cylinders all round, new flexible hoses, you are replacing the lines, so do the master cylinders whileyou are at it, get new shoes, make sure the adjusters are free, otherwise replace... > + front shaft u-joints * Check and see if they are good. If so, leave them. > + shocks/dampers * Depends on condition... > + exhaust heat sheild * You don't have one? 'Twas standard... Easy to make otherwise. > + install mud sheilds * (they finished rotting off just about > when the foot boxes rotted through) Really important on drivers side... > - front window-washer (something that hasn't worked since > I've owned it) You have one of those? Modern wimp... > I know you haven't seen my IIa, but perhaps those of you with > similar experiences might suggest things I've overlooked ? > [ I'm half tempted to drive over to AB and let them look it over > for further suggestions, but I'm not likely to buy parts there.] Sounds like you are going all out and undertaking the same thing that Dave Meadows has just started here. Want to see the list of parts as a starting point? Pretty detailed... > For you folks who import from the U.K. to the U.S., can you have an > idea of what the custom's duty is ? and Merryside's address > (do they have a catalog or price list ?) Canada = 0 duty for vehicles 25 years or older, including imported parts for the same. All imports accrue 7% Goods & Services Tax however. I'll look up Merseyside LRS address for you... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 05:03:45 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Tyre Poll To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 10:51:08 BST I'm currently running my 88" on 6.00X16 Firestone Town & Country cross (bias?) plies.Reasons?I originally ran the thing on remoulds,cross ply remoulds that is,but they didnt last the proverbial five minutes,and these Firestones *are* lasting well.My needs from a tyre are mostly on road,but I dont want to get stuck going down a muddy farm lane to get to the paddock, ditto in a wet field with a horse box hooked on behind.So whilst I dont need anything super aggressive road tyres are no good to me.The Firestones are reasonably quiet on road and grip well enough for my needs off it.Dixon's comments regarding the on road behaviour apply,though,they *do* tend to "fall down" the camber of the road,a trait I call "terrain following",but it's predictable,and I'm used to it now.The tyres cost about sixty quid each. Sooo...when a change is due,I'll go for 205 16 "Tracker" radial remoulds at half the price.A friend has them on her 88" S111,and they are wearing well, and she reports a better ride as well.Since she has the same reqiurements as me,seems like the way to go.I cant go to 7.50 because I have gates at home with a cross beam on top,which the vehicle clears by about two inches and much height increase would foul the loading gauge with expensive results. The Trackers *are* taller,but I've checked,and I would still have clearance. I did,at one time,have an army style "bar grip" tyre fitted on the front,and I must admit that it gripped like hell off road.This was a cross ply tyre with staggered bars across it,used to be called NATO Standard but isnt any more.It made a lovely slapping whining noise on the road,but wore rapidly. All of which is probably a fat lot of help to you lot in the States,but you *did* ask! Hey,Bill,you can afford a *spare*?What iit is to be rich:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 05:12:33 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:02:54 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310141827.AA29569@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 2:27 pm Bill, Couple of things.Replace the engine block core plugs while you're at it,but be careful not to damage the seatings!They only cost pence,but can ruin your day if they go.I've got one weeping at present,so tend to be a bit neurotic about them. On brake lines,its worth considering copper ones.Mine are copper (they were on when I bought it)but they are sold over here,can look up the firm if you're interested. Just a thought Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 05:47:01 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: warning and.. To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:36:08 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310150847.AA19251@methley2.hpl.hp.com>; from "Steve Methley" at Oct 15, 93 9:47 am Hey Steve, *What*sunny days?You get*sun* in Bristol?Pull the other one. Cheers Mike From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 07:08:33 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Polling all tires In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 1993 16:27:08 CDT." <199310142127.AA21211@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 05:02:24 -0700 From: Ben Smith 3 of my tyres are BF Goodrich All Terrain P235/75R15 M/S. One tyres is a BF Goodrich Radial All-Terrain T/A LT235/75R15 100s M+S (I popped a tyre a month ago). They don't give me much road noise, but I would like a more aggressive tread for Mud. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 SIII 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 07:53:36 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: warning and.. To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 13:43:13 BST Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310151036.AA27642@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 15, 93 11:36 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > > Hey Steve, > *What*sunny days?You get*sun* in Bristol?Pull the other one. > Cheers > Mike Look, my 'ansum, Brizzl be the gateway to the Zunny Wezzt Kuntreee! BTW 205R16's are pretty much the same rolling radius as 650's. Aspect ratios are 70% for the radial and 100% for the xply tho', so the 650's _look_ a lot skinnier. I've heard good reports of the Trackers. Cheers, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 08:48:02 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark Moore Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 7:34:18 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > - engine > + hardened valves ? other head stuff ? and hardened valved seats for use with unleaded petrol. A must. Also, you might consider boosting compression (and HP :-) by shaving a little off the head, also. This might require shorter tapets. > + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it new bore on the engine, new pistons. -- Mark --0- -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator R/E/FS2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 10:09:31 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 11:55:16 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:Tire Mounts... I have a tire mount on the back passenger side panel. series II but perhaps it is a modification or is this standard on some production runs? ds From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 10:24:07 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: U.K. Defender Prices?? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 10:18:47 CDT Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Thought it might be interesting to find out what the U.K. prices are like for new Defender 90's and 110's. Anyone know? -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From root Tue Oct 19 11:51:53 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Dan Chayes Subject: exhaust thread sizes To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 12:52:15 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO Hello all - Does anybody know what size the threads are for the studs for the exhaust manifold to exhaust pipe connection? This is on a 2.25L Petrol series III, '74. There are three holes on the exhaust manifold, two are blind, and the other is accessable from both sides. The problem is the previous owner installed the exhaust pipe with bolts. There ensured a goodly leak causing very low back pressure, and poor engine performance. Please pardon the spelling errors :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil '74 88, Series III From root Tue Oct 19 12:06:43 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 10:04:25 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Subject: Re: exhaust thread sizes Status: RO 5/16-24 SAE From root Tue Oct 19 13:38:42 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: exhaust thread sizes To: dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil (Dan Chayes) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 19:37:53 BST Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199310191652.MAA01433@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Dan Chayes" at Oct 19, 93 12:52 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Daniel asks: > Does anybody know what size the threads are for the studs for the > exhaust manifold to exhaust pipe connection? This is on a 2.25L Petrol > series III, '74. Yes, they are 5/16UNF ie 24TPI, same as on the V8. > There are three holes on the exhaust manifold, two are > blind, and the other is accessable from both sides. The problem is > the previous owner installed the exhaust pipe with bolts. I had this problem too on both my exhaust manifolds. Some cleaned up OK, a couple required helicoils. Not expensive. -- Best Regards, Steve. From root Tue Oct 19 15:51:04 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Exhaust manifold studs/bolts To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 15:43:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310192026.AA24051@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Oct 19, 93 04:26:54 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1088 Status: RO > We took an Oxy-acetylene torch to mine.... I am requesting some group feedback on this: I have on my desk a brochure for "little torch" from Smith. It attaches to normal oxygen and acetylene regulators. There are 5 tips -- the smallest producing a 6500 degree flame 1/8 inch long. They show it soldering printed circuit boards. The smallest tip is saphire -- only 0.003 inches in diameter. My desire is to get one of these for welding aluminum 0.050 inch thick which is what LR fenders, doors, etc are made of. I want to weld up some cracks and weld in some new patch pieces. It is my understanding: -- there is a special flux for gas welding aluminum. -- there are special blue goggles for gas welding aluminum -- you can gas weld aluminum if you can control the heat. I am in a welding class now utilizing TIG, but that class ends in 2 weeks and I won't have access to the $4000 rigs. Thoughts as to whether I should buy it. Oh, the list price is $119.60, but there is an outfit in New Mexico that will sell it to me for $75.22 I already have the tanks and regulators. From root Mon Oct 18 22:25:07 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 18:07:53 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > I'd venture to suggest that it is the extreme cold that you operate in > that causes the trouble,rather than the copper per se. Could be. With the exception of the Land Rover, other lbc's sit in storage all winter. I guess the extreme colds and vibration together cause the problems. > the great bugbear,augmented by the salted gravel kindly supplied at the > taxpayer's expense to keep the garage trade in business fitting new > brake lines. You wouldn't believe the tons of salt dumped on our roads, the damage to the vehicles, the roads themselves and environment. In the cities they rarely use gravel or very much sand as it would clog the sewer system. A couple years ago, someone worked out that if they dumped all of the winter salt in one shot in the city of Westmount (a city surrounded by Montreal), you could cover every bit of road surface to a depth of four inches. On a brighter side, the annual OVLR frame oiler takes place this coming Saturday. We can spray on as much goop at $5 per can as we wish. It is said that the sign of a good job is that it continues to drip in February. Rgds, Dixon (The 109 with a new galvanised rear crossmenber to replace the one destroyed by the salt) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Tue Oct 19 15:49:01 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: soft tops In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 15 Oct 93 21:01:59 GMT." <9310152101.AA85233@y1.sdsc.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 16:48:51 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > soft tops ... with a simple upward push on a wet ceiling If memory serves me, pushing up on the inside of a canvas tent while it was raining would insite it to leak in that area (not break, but leak), now this might have more applied to places where water pooled. My guess that the canvas in a Rover Top is a bit heavier then tent canvas -- does this principle still apply ? -- Bill Obviously, if the Rover were moving water most likely would not have an opportunity to form pools on the top. From root Fri Oct 15 15:35:04 1993 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: LR parts To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 15:38:10 CDT In-Reply-To: <9310152014.AA13169@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 15, 93 3:14 pm Status: RO > if you mean the ring that goes around the bulb that has 3 springs > and some adjusting screws, I can likely get it to you. If you > mean the chrome outer trim, I probably can too. I can't remember > exactly how it fits together, but I can look. FYI, my parts have > been disassembled, bead-blasted, cadium-plated and are awaiting > re-installation. So it might be difficult to provide an assembly, > but a specific part or two I could probably locate. Hmmm. I had understood (I thought) that you had one working LR and another in parts for spares. Are you saying that you have reconditioned *all* the *spares* as above (bead blasted, cad plated, etc)? I certainly don't mean to filch any spare that has has such effort and expense put into it - my thought was that if you had four of the stainless steel lamp retaining rings (which hold the lamp into the bucket by three screws), and felt that you could get by with two and a spare, then I desparately need a second one for my only LR (to hold the right headlamp in - the bucket and such is present and intact at this end, I'm just missing the retaining ring, and the generic replacements available everywhere don't work - the mounting tabs are in the wrong place). Here's the situation. I have a pretty much complete 1969 Land Rover. There are zero (so far) used Land Rover parts available in St. Louis. I don't want to pay $17 for a new one piece stainless steel headlamp retaining ring. Especially when used is just fine. Though my LR is mostly complete, it is missing several fiddly bits - one headlamp retaining ring, exhaust manifold heat shield and bolts, one rear window latch, both rear view mirrors, the u bolt and ring and nuts for the rear door spare tire carrier, one front seat bottom cushion. None are major mechanical (unlike the trashed rear differential I am performing surgery on), just fiddly annoying things. My hope is that these are bits that most people won't *ever* find a use for (if they have one already, the use of a second is problematical). If that is the case with you, great, I'd be interested in buying your spares for direct (non spare) use on my LR. If not, or if you simply like to have a complete range of spares (which *I* would certainly like to have), fine too. > A logistics nightmare, you say? If it weren't for the explosion > diagrams and fairly detailed descriptions in the LR parts > manual it would be IMPOSSIBLE. Sounds (truly) like fun. I'm in the process of retrieving my 60gal compressor and setting up a bead blast cabinet in my basment/garage in order to do the job right as I rebuild my LR. I've never been happy with putting rusty parts back on. If I'm going to go to all the effort to remove it, I might as well clean and paint it. I've actually thought of cad plating some bits, but I haven't looked into it yet. What did you find when you checked it out? Is is done by any plating shop, or is cad plating a specialty? General price range for typical cad plating jobs? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From root Tue Oct 19 08:05:39 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 08:01:30 -0500 To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO could you comment to the lro listserv group the oiling operation -- that is -- what is used (diesel fuel??) and the tools. Specifically, how do you get the goo up inside the long frame tubes -- do you have some sort of long hose spray assembly. we want to do that here. thank, ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Mon Oct 18 01:13:54 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Zeppelins To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 15:31:23 CST Action: t In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 15, 93 12:45 am Status: RO Dixon writes of me.> > 85mph in a 109? You're nuts. Cant argue with that. > I can't see one doing more than 70,mph before road wander beings to get really un-nerving... On radials (750-16 or 235-85-16) mine have been quite stable well above 70 mph. I find them easier to drive at speed than most of the older landcruisers. The biggest problem is noise and the constant for-aft movement of the roof. Eventually the thin rubber strip around the windscreen creeps out and you have to re-fit it. Not much point trying to listen to Vivaldi et al on the tape deck either. Cant remember what my '66 was like pre radials, it was a while ago, suspect that it would have handled like the proverbial wet sponge much over 75 though. RE the beer "esky" incident, > You don't have any trees to worry about nailing the beer cooler... > :-) Too true! All of the big trees have been pulled down when people in "pretend 4x4's" (read non xx-rover) get stuck and have to winch themselves out. (Append as many :-) 's as required to calm your personal sensibilities) Dag's Darwin N.T. Oz From root Mon Oct 18 13:21:26 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 18:05:38 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: sun and rot Status: RO >Sorry about the wording, sounds rude, wasn't meant to be. I get annoyed with soft top criticism/scaremongering...... no offense taken, an dno scaremongering implied. this was all inspired by someone's (?) desire to put a ski rack on a soft top......just not sure I'd want a ski rack on mine (if I ever get around to getting one again.....) >In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops, no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics. While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight, bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather. Good point, Mike-no wonder Steve hasn't punctured his old ragtop yet! (Ours was parked in direct sun most of its life.) >I'll ask the obvious, why doesn't anyone offer a vinyl top? I know its not in keeping with it's heritage. I think you hit it right on the money. Vinyl?? What's that??, rd/nigel From root Mon Oct 18 10:28:20 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: TopRot To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:34:34 CDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310181345.AA07264@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 18, 93 2:45 pm Status: RO I'll ask the obvious, why doesn't anyone offer a vinyl top? I know its not in keeping with it's heritage. Is it a cost issue? I don't see how they could be any more expensive over here than what the canvas ones sell for. Paul > In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops, > no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics. > While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight, > bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong > sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather.Hence the > goodly number of Rovers over here with scruffy,but original soft tops > with all their original "integrity". > Also likely to be a problem is if canvas is folded up wet,and left like > that in a fairly warm humid climate.It goes mouldy,and rots quickly. > I beleive the sailing navies knew a fair bit about *that* problem when > on tropical stations,and ensured that their spare siuts of sails were > regularly removed from the sail lockers to air. > Isn't the bottom line if you look after it,it will look after you? > Cheers > Mike Rooth > > > -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From root Mon Oct 18 08:45:20 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mike Rooth Subject: TopRot To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 14:45:32 BST Status: RO In the current discussion concerning the pro's and con's of ragtops, no-one has yet mentioned the rotting powers of sunlight on fabrics. While this is unlikely to be a problem in Britain,(bugger all sunlight, bugger all rot),canvas that is exposed for long periods of time strong sunlight will rot far more than if it just exposed to weather.Hence the goodly number of Rovers over here with scruffy,but original soft tops with all their original "integrity". Also likely to be a problem is if canvas is folded up wet,and left like that in a fairly warm humid climate.It goes mouldy,and rots quickly. I beleive the sailing navies knew a fair bit about *that* problem when on tropical stations,and ensured that their spare siuts of sails were regularly removed from the sail lockers to air. Isn't the bottom line if you look after it,it will look after you? Cheers Mike Rooth From root Mon Oct 18 08:12:37 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1993 08:10:11 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: private e-mail posted for all Status: RO A fellow LR owner and I were in private e-mail dialog. I thought I would share one of the notes with the LRO gouup. Private dialogs are ok, I guess, for some things, but if they continue on into depth, they should be shared with the group: I don't have a sophisticated mailer, so I can't interpose my answers with your questions, so I will just ramble for awhile. Yes, I do have 4 of the trim rings and need only 2. I could get one to you and that would still leave me one for spare. ------------ some ramblings follow ------ It has been my experience that the parts I sell I eventually want back. I think it is because the common ones are the ones that fail and need replacement. I sold 2 doors, for example and then I needed 2 and bought them for more money. Ditto on door tops. I do like the idea of having a nearly complete spare car stashed in the basement. It is very handy. When repairing my daily driver, I can take parts off and put them into the refurbishing bin and put already-refirbished ones right on -- feels good. Usually you have to wait for the RN order anyway cause of seals, gaskets, whatever, but it is still a good method. Then you take the parts and refirbish them at random with the next batch. The parts you have missing, I cant help you with. The exhaust manifold heat shield -- I am trying to get 2 myself at this very instance. The ubolt, ring and nuts for the rear door I have one set for my rebuilder, but the other car was has the ubolt bent beyond repair -- I don't have enough nuts as is cause some were frozen to studs, one car I bought didn't have a rear axle, etc. All of my mirrors were trash and I have ordered one set of new boomerang mirrors but not gotten around to installing yet. I sold my front seats already. So, it is not clear I can help you with the parts you mentioned. I do have 3 people -- I will try to get their names/numbers to you -- that I have been successful at buying used parts from. And part of the problem is finding the parts. I know in my head there is something in one of those boxes, but it takes time to organize them and I have made several false starts. With respect to cad plating: It is a three step process. First an alkine bath to remove grease -- this *might* remove some paint, but it is not guaranteed. Then an acid bath -- this removes the rust. finally the plating. I bead blast my parts to remove the paint -- it also gets rid of the rust. Before I blast, I use kerosene to get rid of the grease. The parts are clean and nice, but they get surface rust easily (no problem, the acid takes that off in about 3 seconds). There are two processes -- a hang tank and a tumbler. 1 The tumbler is like a front-loading washer. All the small parts that can tumble without clobering eachother goes here. I fill up one of those plastic boxes with the hinge lids with hundreds of parts and it costs me $35. If you keep it under 70 lb, you can send it ups and they will return it ups about 3 weeks later or so. I use a place in KCMO. So, the total cost is about $50, but in those 3 weeks and the multi-weeks that it takes to blast and fill the box, you REALLY FORGET where the parts go and how they go together. 2 The hang-tank is for bigger parts. They hang each part from a wire and it gets plated. I have plated a lot of big parts this way. The price varies -- I use a big plastic box here too and a full one (70 pounds, remember) usually costs $35-$50. I also have a galvanizing place 50 miles from here and have been successful with about 3 batches -- 1 frame, 2 bulkheads all the galvanized outer trim from 2 cars, and some things I have welded up. I am trying to finalize another batch now. I collect what surely is a *minimum* order for them and drive it over. They do it while I wait as a favor I am sure. They charge $0.30 per pound so the batch with the frame and bulkhead came in at $75 or so, but most are around $40. This is all a lot of fun and I wish I could do it full time but other things come into play. I have dedicated my 2 car garage to this and it shows! One thing to warn you, a bead blast cabinet generates lots of dust even if the door is closed, sealed and the vacuum is going. Make sure you can close off the area and be willing to accept some dust landing on shelves, parts, etc. I also paint and do bodywork in my garage and the three are a wicked combination. 5:00 on friday -- we can chat some more later. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Mon Oct 18 04:43:13 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: soft tops To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) (dushin russell) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 10:45:08 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310152101.AA85233@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 15, 93 9:01 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO rdushin/nigel say: >Steve wrote: > >Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top). Sorry about the wording, sounds rude, wasn't meant to be. I get annoyed with soft top criticism/scaremongering...... > don't push up on a wet roof.. If......... > you wanna find out for yourself, then next time you are beneath your > saturated soft top, just push up. > ......but I don't advise this...... Just did today - remind me; just what was supposed to happen??????? > ......and I still want one......I especially like to drive with the > rear and sides rolled up. Get one mate, safe as houses! -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From root Mon Oct 18 03:33:58 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 18 Oct 93 9:35:01 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 16, 93 12:59 am Status: RO Fair enough,speak as you find,but suffice it to say that my copper lines were far from new when I bought the thing,I've had it seven years,it's in daily use,and I've had NO trouble to date.I'd venture to suggest that it is the extreme cold that you operate in that causes the trouble,rather than the copper per se.We have the same problems on the "cold" side of our big air con plant,the copper pipes harden with the low temperature,fracture and leak.I still think that in "temperate" climates,copper is superior to steel,since rust is the great bugbear,augmented by the salted gravel kindly supplied at the taxpayer's expense to keep the garage trade in business fitting new brake lines. Cheers Mike Rooth From root Sat Oct 16 02:26:48 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 00:59:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > On brake lines,its worth considering copper ones.Mine are copper > (they were on when I bought it)but they are sold over here,can look > up the firm if you're interested. No! Copper lines have been tried by people over here. They can not take the vibration. Of all of the copper lines people have installed, the failure rate is approaching 50% or the lines within a year. I have heard of no problems on other lbc's, but on Land Rovers they just don't hack it. Those that have gone copper are going back to steel on Land Rovers. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Oct 15 17:41:58 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 17:40:21 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Tires Status: RO On my way back from Central America in early 1971 in my 1957 107 SW, I came up the Caribbean coast after trekking through the jungle roads (which are probably paved now) of Guatemala to Tikal, then to British Honduras, now Belize. There is still Guatemalan mud on my firewall. The roads in Belize are another story, one for a thread on springs, but this is about tires. I spent a night camping on the beach in Tampico, Mexico. The beach was open for anyone to drive onto, and was a mixture of areas of firm, hardpacked sand and very soft, deep, dry sand. When I drove down the beach to get away from the houses and the hotel, I was flagged down by the owner of a 1954 Chevy who had gotten mired in a soft sand area. It didn't take much, even with my strange assortment of tires, to pull him out and back to firm sand. The next morning, on my way back to the entrance to entrance to the beach near the hotel, I was flagged down by three gun toting Mexican soldiers standing near a Jeep. It seems that they had also gotten stuck in the deep sand, and had burned out their clutch trying to get out. I was drafted to push them out. The jeep had a side mounted spare tire that stuck out in the back, so I just nuzzled up to it with my front bumper and pushed them out of the sand. They expected me to push them all the way into the city of Tampico. I pushed them as far as the gatehouse to the refinery there (about a half mile) and told them to call a tow truck. But those 3 retread snow tires and one military/tractor lug tire had no trouble in the soft sand, even when pushing the disabled jeep. <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <----------------------------------------------------------> From root Fri Oct 15 16:09:05 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 21:01:59 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: soft tops Status: RO Steve wrote: >Rubbish (presumably you don't actually have a soft top). Not presently, but I have in the past. I have seen two soft tops rip with very little effort-both were done with a simple upward push on a wet ceiling. I will grant you, the roof was (in both cases) old and well seasoned, and was probably ready for replacement. I think that the roofs probably ripped so easily because a) of their age, b) they were wet, and c) (most importantly) they were subjected to pressure (upwards, driven by a kid's-sized index finger) in an "abnormal" direction. I do not mean to imply that softtops are generally fragile (I too have been impressed with their ruggedness) but they should not be subjected to abuse. Brushed contact with a tree does not consitute abuse.......direct contact with a blunt instrument (even a kid's finger) does. It was just a word of warning-don't push up on a wet roof. If you wanna find out for yourself, then next time you are beneath your saturated soft top, just push up. ......but I don't advise this...... ......and I still want one......I especially like to drive with the rear and sides rolled up. Rgds, rdushin/nigel From root Fri Oct 15 22:08:24 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 16:51:44 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: Polling all tires Status: RO As some of you may remember, it has been too long since my Land Rover (1957 Series I 107 station wagon) has been on the road. It is still in kit form (with a beautifully rebuilt frame) waiting for more cash. As for the tires: When I bought the machine in 1970, I treated it to a set of 7.50x16 bias ply retread snow tires. It wasn't until around 1973 or 74 that I got a set of manuals for it and learned that it was supposed to have 7.00x16 tyres. Fat chance. One problem with the 7.50x16 snows is the edges rubbing on the frame rails when trying to turn to the steering lock position. Those tires got me through the record snow-fall winter (1970/71) in the hills of Vermont where I was working in a restaurant until 1:30 a.m. and lived on a mountain road which was plowed each afternoon (by bulldozer) at 4:00 whether it needed it or not. I frequently provided taxi service all over the Sugarbush valley area in the wee hours of the morning. The following winter those same tires carried me from Maine to Central America (and 3 of them even made it back). I hit one of the 'silent policemen' coming into some Mexican town at about 45 mph. There were two types of these traffic control devices. The most common was a typical speed bump. This one was a less common speed ditch - about 6 to 9 inches deep and a foot or so wide. Very hard to see in certain light conditions. Anyway my left front tire developed an aneurism on the inside sidewall. Every revolution of the tire produced a disconcerting thump as the bubble hit the frame. The main problem here was that the bubble didn't develop right away. It wasn't a problem until I had gotten back onto the highway and the tire heated up. I found a place where I could get well off the road and swapped it for my (only) spare: the 7.50R16 Michelin highway tire that was on the hood (where it belonged) when I bought the machine. There was no perceptible difference in handling with one radial tire up front mixed with 3 bias snows! I mounted the wounded tire on the hood with the bubble up front. As the tire cooled, the bubble disappeared. A couple of days later in Guatemala, I pulled into a llantas shop and bought the only 7.50x16 tire they had. It has a tread pattern like a tractor tire with those huge diagonal lugs, and is a Goodyear tire (hecho en Guatemala). It didn't make any difference in handling either. I also visited Kepaco, the Land Rover dealer in Guatemala City for 4 new shocks and a tuneup. New 109s were about $3000 (US) and new 88s were about $2000. There was no import duty on work vehicles in Guat. The tuneup included a valve adjustment and a bunch of other stuff. The total bill came to about $90. $16 was for labor - 8 hours at $2 per. The Guatemalan quetzal had a one to one correspondence with the US dollar, and they were interchangeable. As an aside, later in the trip I pulled into the first roadside restaurant I came to after crossing the border into El Salvador. There were eight vehicles in the parking lot when I pulled in. All of them were 109 station wagons! Steve <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <----------------------------------------------------------> From root Tue Oct 19 16:09:29 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Exhaust manifold studs/bolts To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 22:09:32 BST Cc: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310192043.AA15470@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 19, 93 3:43 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Recently I saw: > -- you can gas weld aluminum if you can control the heat. > > I am in a welding class now utilizing TIG, but that class ends > in 2 weeks and I won't have access to the $4000 rigs. I've TIG'd Aluminium; that was hard enough. The stories I've heard of trying to gas weld it are along the lines that because the heat not so localised, the whole workpiece is prone to melting away suddenly. It seems sudden since it's difficult to tell how hot Al is by trying to watch it change colour like steel - it doesn't really. Is this what the goggles are for? Havn't tried it myself: Let us know if you can do it. Best Regards, Steve. From root Tue Oct 19 16:57:57 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 21:56:07 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: pipe Status: RO Mark- cursing alot usually (ie eventually) works for me...... i recently did nigel's exhaust (manifold to tailpipe) and the pipe fit to the manifold via three shining new (not any more) studs-those bolts are not stock items (but probably do the job, no?). i have since removed the starter WITHOUT removing the pipe. it is tricky- only come out one way-and even trickier to get back in, but if the pipe is stock (and positioned correctly) it can be worked around, no problem. perhaps you are having trouble reaching the bolts that hold the starter in??? in that case it may serve you well to remove the pipe-curse louder and longer is all i can suggest (in addition to all of the above plus a suitable extension and breaker bar-but don't expect not to shear one off ala my water pump bolts..............) rdushin/nigel From root Tue Oct 19 17:04:41 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 22:04:49 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: brass nuts Status: RO oh yeah-the brass nuts, too- I got those! (didn't used to, though- needless to say, on the "teardown" of nigel's thru-da-wing exhaust- (wasn't stock, but a midas modified earl schibe job, and the manifold itself was busted bigtime)-all three sheared off (starting to sound like a recurring theme.......). rdushin/nige From root Wed Oct 20 03:53:00 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 9:53:43 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Oct 19, 93 1:52 pm Status: RO Sea Foam Green.Hmmmm.Never heard of it,althought it may be one of the new fangled colours that Land Rover rejoice in these days. On the home market at least,there were very few colours available. Bronze Green,a dark green,could be mistaken for British Racing Green, if there was such a colour,a light green,which I *think* was originally called Cockpit Green,because they painted the inside of aircraft cockpits this colour,Sand,which is self explanatory,dark and light grey(very rare over here),and Marine Blue,which is more or less RAF blue(well,it would be with that name,wouldnt it?). There is also Deep Bronze Green,which is slightly *lighter* than Bronze Green.(Dont ask me,I didnt invent the name!) If you were a squaddy,you woudl have the option,or not,of a tasteful matt NATO green,called "paint,brushing,IRR,matt,gallons,one",sometimes decorated with pretty patterns of black by way of a change.Despite the label on the tin this confection was apparently applied with a shovel. Clear as mud,eh? Cheers Mike Rooth s From root Wed Oct 20 00:11:15 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Welding Aluminum From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 19:39:21 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO In response to a query about welding aluminum I have Welded, or perhaps more accurately soldered aluminum with an oxy-acetelene torch. The materials that I have used that worked the best for me were a jewelers torch, similar to the one described in a prevoius message, Jigging compound, similar to Moist Bastos, and a product called Lumiweld which are the aluminum rods that require no flux. There was another method using pure aluminum rod and Aladin Aliminum Flux but I found that the base metal melted before the rod did. Lumiweld melts easily, is quite strong, and is easy to use. Steps to weld aluminum Use a clean stainless steel brush to clean the work. It has to be really clean and shiny. use Jigging Putty to hold in the heat around the weld I used the largest oriface tip of the jewlers torch. use an acetelene rich flame heat work, dabbing the rod into it use stainless steel wire to float out impurities, while still heating the work I have a set of those blue goggles and I am not sure what they are supposed to do. Good Luck Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Tue Oct 19 17:38:35 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: pipe To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 17:39:09 CDT In-Reply-To: <9310192156.AA38990@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 19, 93 9:56 pm Status: RO Russell said: > cursing alot usually (ie eventually) works for me...... Good, I'll keep it up for a while longer then. :) What kind of music was it that the marines played for Noriega that eventually removed him from his hidey hole? Perhaps... :) > i have since removed the starter WITHOUT removing the pipe. it is tricky- > only come out one way-and even trickier to get back in, but if the pipe is > stock (and positioned correctly) it can be worked around, no problem. perhaps > you are having trouble reaching the bolts that hold the starter in??? in Interesting. I fiddled and wiggled that starter every which way, hoping that there was some (still euclidean) configuration that would enable me to snake it past the exhaust pipe, but I couldn't find any such. I know (due to the nonstock manifold attachment) that it isn't a stock exhaust pipe, so maybe that is my problem? In my case, it seems that the exhaust pipe is so close to the starter that I cannot withdraw the starter wholly from the engine without running into the pipe. Thus, I cannot twist the starter too much in any direction. My exhaust pipe seems to drop vertically down from the outlet of the exhaust manifold, which seems to be a fairly reasonable configuration. Does the stock arrangement curve forwards to give more room between pipe and starter? Perhaps another session of starter calisthenics would be enlightening. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From root Wed Oct 20 00:07:45 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 18:28:07 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > could you comment to the lro listserv group the oiling operation -- that > is -- what is used (diesel fuel??) and the tools. Specifically, how > do you get the goo up inside the long frame tubes -- do you have some > sort of long hose spray assembly. we want to do that here. thank, As I missed last past two years events, I am not exactly sure how this is going to be done, but on Saturday I'll post a synopsis of the activities. Now to figure out how to get a lift out to Almonte to collect the 109 and fix the tail pipe. I kind of backed into a stump and bent it sideways. The increased back pressure is not appreciated by the 2.25l... :-( Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Tue Oct 19 17:16:03 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 22:16:19 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: one last softop story Status: RO Bill wrote: >If memory serves me, pushing up on the inside of a canvas tent while it was raining would insite it to leak in that area (not break, but leak), now this might have more applied to places where water pooled. My guess that the canvas in a Rover Top is a bit heavier then tent canvas -- does this principle still apply ? In fact, on BOTH occasions when I witnessed a break (in a sun-bleached, fully weathered, and aged soft top) it was done by one elder sibling who was attempting to "demonstrate this very principle"......"Hey, let's see if the drip comes though the canvas when we poke it"......didn't learn the first time, didn't the second time either (we no longer have a softop on this rig, unfortunately). I don't think the rover tops are a whole lot heavier than your basic canvas tent (maybe a little more rugged).... but none of this is in any way meant to deter you from buying one. (no scare-mongering here) They are well worth the price, especially if you already have the hoops and windshield attachments. rdushin/nigel/the roach ps spelling errors?? no spelling errors here. From root Tue Oct 19 23:00:02 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 13:52:26 +0100 From: Grettir Asmundarson Subject: Sea Foam Green? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Is "Sea Foam Green" an original/stock Land Rover color? If so, what shade of green is it? I've seen the lighter/mint green Rovers and the darker/ forest green Rovers. Are either of these "Sea Foam?" --- grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) The Pension Grillparzer +1 801 375 7679 From root Wed Oct 20 08:26:16 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 08:20:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 19, 93 07:39:21 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1341 Status: RO Great welding advice -- now a couple of additional questions: 1. I want to weld some "patch panels" of aluminum into parts of my fenders -- like I want to cover the hinge mount holes in the top of the front fender -- convert a fender with a heater hole to one without, weld the lock hole in a SIII door skin to make it a SII, etc. If I were welding thin steel, I would utilize butt welds, but I feel that I should use some sort of lap weld to reduce the melt-thru. I have this set of vise-grip pliers that put a jog into the patch metal, I was using that last night and was not too impressed with how it worked on *SMALL* pieces. I think it would work better on larger pieces, but it is a slow process. I guess my question is: did you utilize butt welds sucessfully or lap welds -- and if lap welds, did you use some method to jog the edge of the panel to make it flush with the surface?. 2. If I can braze sheet steel with bronse rods, is aluminum welding about the same difficulty, much harder, or how tough is it to accomplish? 3. Did you accomplish this while on the car -- vertical welds and all? I have purchased a couple of special grinding wheels designed for aluminum and can grind down my welds and make it look presentable. Thanks for the advice. From root Wed Oct 20 10:58:05 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 08:56:27 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Status: RO I don't have the names, but the light green is the Land Rover green. They usually came in red, off white, light green, or light blue(civilian rigs). The wheels and hard top came in off white. The interior of the station wagon hard tops are painted to match lower body colour. Upolstry grey through '68 then black through '74 when Rover stopped exporting LRs to the US. Galvanized trim NEVER painted. Engine, light green. air filter hammertone gray (silver). Metal elbow fitting air cleaner to carb & breather cap, black. DISCLAMER - all above is a guess based upon poking around LRs for 16 years and not a result of actual research (heaven forbid that we reduce ourselves to actually geathering real data :*) TeriAnn From root Wed Oct 20 11:30:18 1993 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:32:43 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: twakeman@apple.com, ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO > > ......................... The interior of the station wagon > > hard tops are painted to match lower body colour......... > > Are you sure about that? My '64 88 "Four Wheel Drive Station Wagon" (per the badges) is *all* Poppy Red except for the tropical roof panel, which is white. Several people have told me that the factory never did that. I am **positive** it's all original paint. R, bg From root Wed Oct 20 11:23:29 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:22:55 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Status: RO Atlantic British sells the following colors as matches to the original NADA LR's Limestone Marine Blue Poppy Red Light Green Sand Bronze Green Arctic White R, bg From root Wed Oct 20 11:15:28 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? To: twakeman@apple.com (Teriann J. Wakeman) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 11:08:39 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310201556.AA07927@apple.com> from "Teriann J. Wakeman" at Oct 20, 93 08:56:27 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 578 Status: RO > ......................... The interior of the station wagon > hard tops are painted to match lower body colour......... Are you sure about that? One of mine does not have a liner -- both the inside and outside are *limestone* off-white. The other one did have a liner, but not now. It still has some horsehair glued to the rooftop (it is in storage awaiting mounting) but it too is clearly *limestone* off-white. These are both hardtops with sliding rear windows -- I call that a station wagon top, but the vehicles did not have the station wagon logo plate on the back. From root Wed Oct 20 11:46:46 1993 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:49:53 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Bill, does your red top have any chips in the paint that you could look at for lower layers of another colour? Have you tried peering between the roofs with a strong light? I have seen one or two red 88s with a red top & white tropical roof & always assumed that they were repainted. Perhaps these Rovers were first sold for commercial use? TeriAnn From root Wed Oct 20 11:45:26 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:44:35 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Of course I'm NOT sure that the interior of station wagon tops were painted the colour of the body. I have one on my 109, that like yours is white. However, I have seen some that are painted to match that look factory (maybe someone repainted them? Maybe they were white if a dealer put them on and matching the body if the factory put them on. Maybe it was done differently different years. Thats why I brought the subject up. Land Rover people generally do not seem to worry about concourse or originality (want to see the power assisted brakes going into my 109 that was built before LRs had power assisted brakes), but sometimes some people would like to at least maintain a stock appearence. I was just wondering if the group was up to figguring out the colours of LRs to archive for future readers. Oh by the way, when I was mentioning body colours, I forgot the light brown. TeriAnn From root Wed Oct 20 12:09:27 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 13:02:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Sender: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Reply-To: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? To: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: <9310201649.AA15997@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Mine '69 IIa is poppy red (mostly) and the entire hardtop is limestone (matching the wheels) and I've had the top off any number of times and redone the window tracks and didn't notice any evidence that the top had ever been repainted. I can't imagine anyone repainting the inside and out of the fuesalage poppy red or altering the hard top only. The only thing that I can suggest is that perhaps the top was added later and was not original to this vehicle. It came with both hard and soft tops and I don't know of a way that the original order could be determined!? --chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ccb@umich.edu . o c , The illusion of free will is useful barbeau@io.eecs.umich.edu `'#+-- --+#`' to the politicians, occasionally 73210,3722@compuserve /'> <`\ I like to remind them I know this. ============================================================================== From root Wed Oct 20 12:15:43 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 10:15:58 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Status: RO I say again, **POSITIVE**, top factory painted Poppy Red. > > Bill, does your red top have any chips in the paint that you could look at > for lower layers of another colour? Have you tried peering between the roofs > with a strong light? I have seen one or two red 88s with a red top & white > tropical roof & always assumed that they were repainted. Perhaps these Rovers > were first sold for commercial use? > > TeriAnn > From root Wed Oct 20 13:51:40 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 20 Oct 93 09:22:55 PDT." <9310201622.AA10979@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 14:47:27 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > Atlantic British sells the following colors as matches to the original NADA > LR's Limestone Marine Blue Poppy Red Light Green Sand Bronze Green Arctic White Basically, if you read the fine print on the occasional pictures, you'll notice that the cans of paint are brand X (which is as I recall, DuPont) and any normal auto paint purveyor for brand X will be able to mix paint to that specification. (I checked once, and they had the formula in the computer) My guess is that the folks at AB have actually gone off and had larger lots mixed, and can probably sell you another can of paint from the lot that will match. This could be beneficial, if you run short or get sloppy putting on the first one. If you do go down to the local purveyor of brand X, some of them are not quite as good as others, so be on the look out for these careless features: They grab and 'new' open can off the shelf -- make sure can bottem is not covered with dust The put the color into the can before *any* paint -- odds are even after mixing, shaking, remixing and spraying, some good amount of what should have been your colour is still on the bottem of the can. And there are probably more which I have been fortunate not to have experienced personally to-date. Of course, if you aren't as proud, or own a military, I understand it is quite acceptable to use normal paint brushes while applying the camoflauge paint... -- Bill From root Wed Oct 20 15:34:34 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 13:33:33 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Bill, I wasn't trying to sell AB's paint, but only thought the color names might be of interest. Right you are on being able to buy it anywhere, and here are the match numbers, courtesy Rovers North. Don't blame me if you go out and get 10 gallons and it don't match. I got some Dupont acrylic enamel to paint my fire wall with this number and it dosn't match anything, but that's just because the thing is so fadded and oxidized. I'm sure these are as correct as you can get. And a lovley red it is. Dupont Centari Ditzler Glasurit Limestone 38505A 46251 Marine Blue 38503A 16514 ROV504 Poppy Red 38506AH ROV303 Light (Pastel) Green 38504A ROV605 Sand ACF/004 or 26291 Bronze Green 38500A 46451 LEY637 Arctic White Regards, Bill G. > > Basically, if you read the fine print on the occasional pictures, you'll > notice that the cans of paint are brand X (which is as I recall, DuPont) > and any normal auto paint purveyor for brand X will be able to mix paint to > that specification. (I checked once, and they had the formula in the > computer) > From root Wed Oct 20 17:22:13 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 18:21:04 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: roof racks Status: RO I'm starting to like the roof racks that RN advertises towards the back of their catalog but I don't care much for their prices. I'm thinking about having one made by j-random local welding outfit but I'd need to know about the correct mounting points and any other gottchas that might occur. Any knowledge of such things on the net? Dixon and TeriAnn: how about that Merseyside address and number? I would like to check on overdrive alternatives...... monty From root Thu Oct 21 07:42:32 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 08:40:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: Re: roof racks To: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is! --chris On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote: > > Monty. > > Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in > their products (but alas not on thier payroll...) If you need more > information contact me and I'll send you their addresses.(I just found the > copy of their fit list I own. If interested I can send you all the info > you need.) Expensive, perhaps. But considering you can trasnfer these > racks from car to truck to another truck, etc, they're worth their weight > in gold... > > --Jeff > From root Thu Oct 21 04:56:59 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Rover Paint To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:59:20 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310210852.AA06949@mtnoca.helena_noc>; from "ROY CALDWELL" at Oct 21, 93 2:52 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Roy says: > Roof is NorthAmerican. What is this roof type? Never heard of it over here. Best Regards, Steve. From root Thu Oct 21 03:54:54 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 02:52:57 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Rover Paint Status: RO I just thought I would add to the conversation with a few comments. My 62 IIA is Limestone over Poppy Red with the wheels Limestone also. Roof is NorthAmerican. The colors are original for the vehicle. My 58 Series I is, what I call British Racing Green or forest green. Top to bottom, inside and out. The roof is the NorthAmerican. I know the color is original because I bought the truck from the second owner, who bought it, when it was a year old, from the original owner. My 69 IIA is Limestone over the Sea Mist Green, with Limestone wheels. Having been inside and out on her recently this is the paint she came with. One thing to remember in all of this is that many of these vehicles came across the pond without roofs and sold with what ever roof the owner wanted. And I would think that the roof colors depended on what the dealer had in the store room at the time of sale. A friend of mine sent me an original price list and dealer brochure and I will check it to see what is mentioned regarding colors and tops. This ad material is dated 64. I will post what it says. Be kind to your Rover, for it bears you. Roy From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:29 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: roof racks From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:10:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on writes: > Dixon and TeriAnn: how about that Merseyside address and number? I > would like to check on overdrive alternatives...... Merseyside Land Rover Services Bridge Industrial Estate Speke Hall Road Speke, Liverpool L24 9HE 051-486-8636 (v) 051-486-5986 (f) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:20 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:04:02 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > > ......................... The interior of the station wagon > > hard tops are painted to match lower body colour......... > > Are you sure about that? One of mine does not have a liner -- > both the inside and outside are *limestone* off-white. Actually I think you are right here if I remember correctly... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Oct 21 05:55:21 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sea Foam Green? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 00:01:12 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Teriann J. Wakeman" writes: > I don't have the names, but the light green is the Land Rover green. > They usually came in red, off white, light green, or light blue(civilian rigs Don't forget dark green... :-) > Galvanized trim NEVER painted. On the 110's this is painted, and looking at rust stains on a pair I saw at Stowe, I would hazard a guess that it is not galvanised. > Engine, light green. air filter hammertone gray (silver). Metal elbow > fitting air cleaner to carb & breather cap, black. I know the engine is *supposed* to be light green, but have you ever seen one in that colour that was not rebuilt? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Wed Oct 20 22:44:18 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 23:45:53 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: roof racks Status: RO >> >Go for the Yakimma roof racks. >> >> they sound decent-but can you climb on top of one??? the racks i have >> seen at RN come complete with a ladder-sounds like you could even stick >> your mother-in-law on one! > > >Good point about climbing on one. The answer is...yeeesss.. You could. That's the idea. With the RN racks, you can get a ladder, mounting points for various lights and you can get up on top and use that for a working platform for whatever the hell it is you want to do. They're very nice but as they start at about $1K and go up from there, I'm considering alternatives of a custom nature... m From root Wed Oct 20 22:14:53 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: expedition roof racks Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 23:16:18 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Monty. The few expedition roof racks which I have seen on rovers were all basically framed with square cross section steel tubing (makes cutting and welding easier, I presume). They were supported by a number of feet or stilts which went down to the drip rail // seam which runs about the top of the station wagon//hard top, I noticed that they had little tabs welded on the bottom of the uprights, so that the rack could be bolted down. Memory may be decieving, but the most important thing would be how many feet to put on - so the weight is distributed about the hard-top. Racks on the Camel Trophy Range Rover and 90" pictures seem to have 5 feet spaced along the length and stop short of the corners. For the ladder, it seems most designs place it on the rear panel (to the side of th rear door, on the driver's side. My guess is it should be secured at the top (on the rack), and it would secured on the bottem, my suggestion would be have it secured at the same bolts as the rear bumper handle//bumperette. Some extras which you may wish to design in: tabs for lamp mounting - drving front, work lamps on the corners tabs on the rack sides to mount hardware for tools (picks, shovels, axes, sand ladders, high lift jack) loops on the front top corners for attaching brush wires (run down to bull bar corners) detents or supports on rear flooring of the rack to allow carrying of jerry cans -- I've seen racks where they were upright (verticle), upright (horizontal), and canted at an angle (all mouth side up) I've also seen illustrations where they carry them flat. Either way, wire the caps shut, and never fill the fuel ones more than 3/4 full (leaving room for fuel expansion when they heat up) Jeff, An real (expedition) rover rack, is a far cry from the double pole Thule or Yakima rack designs... From root Wed Oct 20 20:57:40 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 21:49:56 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: racks To: dushin russell Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310210050.AA94879@y1.sdsc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, dushin russell wrote: > > >Go for the Yakimma roof racks. > > they sound decent-but can you climb on top of one??? the racks i have > seen at RN come complete with a ladder-sounds like you could even stick > your mother-in-law on one! Good point about climbing on one. The answer is...yeeesss.. You could. I got the impression that the racks would be used mainly for skis and various bits of sporting equipment, but yes you could and it would support you, but I would consider that verging on abuse...If you want people carryin' racks, get the RN racks. Remember though I don't think you'll be transfering to your 1969 Super Bettle, or to your 1993 Mercades any time soon after purchasing those RN racks! Good luck! (If you're going to throw your mother-in-law on the Yakimma racks, I'd box her up a bit. Less wind noise that way....) --Jeff From root Wed Oct 20 19:50:45 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 00:50:30 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: racks Status: RO >Go for the Yakimma roof racks. they sound decent-but can you climb on top of one??? the racks i have seen at RN come complete with a ladder-sounds like you could even stick your mother-in-law on one! on another subject......nigel's blindsider top is all "off white". My poppy red resto rig has painted (original red, almost for sure) sides, white top. I have also seen them (these are tropicals, or at least ones with windows) in all white. and Mark-sounds to me like your non-stock pipe is the problem. A stock pipe bends slightly (towards the block, I think) to allow the starter to come out (once detached, it comes out in a vertical orientation). Get a new one and all your problems will fade away (might as well go for the hangers, center pipe, and LEFT EXIT muffler as well-the right side exit pipe is cheaper, but you are left without a place to hang it on-RN offers a hanger that requires you drill into your frame...it is held in with expansion bolts....but it just ain't worth it). rdushin/da nige From root Wed Oct 20 18:54:00 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 19:49:37 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: roof racks To: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310202218.AA07230@easynet.crl.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Monty. Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in their products (but alas not on thier payroll...) If you need more information contact me and I'll send you their addresses.(I just found the copy of their fit list I own. If interested I can send you all the info you need.) Expensive, perhaps. But considering you can trasnfer these racks from car to truck to another truck, etc, they're worth their weight in gold... --Jeff From root Thu Oct 21 08:25:54 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 09:19:16 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: roof racks To: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Cc: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote: > Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a > non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof > rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like > everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is! > > --chris > > On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote: > > > Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in > > their products (but alas not on thier payroll...) Sorry to disappoint Chris, but Yakimma is not Japanese, it is a word that comes from a North American Indian dialect. Yakimma racks is American. As if it matters anyway! --Jeff "Ok! So it's American! <---Insert any convenient country here. I'm not holding that against it and neither should you!" From root Thu Oct 21 10:24:38 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 08:22:35 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: roof racks Status: RO Monty. Merseyside LandRover Services 011-44-051-486-5986 FAX Fairy overdrive 342 pounds Galvanized roof rack 109.90/88 & 129.90/109 pounds Galvanized rear ladder19.90 pounds rack fitting kit 4.90 pounds Hope this helps, TeriAnn From root Thu Oct 21 12:29:10 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mike Rooth Subject: Green's green,so green.... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:05:40 BST Status: RO Just to add to the confusion,(mine,if no-one elses),there is an advert from,I think,the mid sixties,reproduced in a book I have, depicting S11's.The colours available *on the home market* were, Bronze Green(dark green),Light Green(called by some enthusiasts over here Cockpit Green,because the rumour is that Rover had some left over from the aircraft building days,and painted the very early S1 this colour),Sand,Light Grey,Dark Grey,and Marine Blue. Red must have been export only,or special order.Station Wagons were painted body colour up to the roof gutter,Limestone after that.Externally that is.Wheels,on the "regular" model,ie not the Station Wagon,were body colour.My '70 11A was Bronze Green when it was born,and where the Limestone paint has chipped off the wheels,they,too,are Bronze Green.Hardtops Limestone. *And*my engine is light green,and hasnt been rebuilt as such,I just had an in situ rebore about four years ago.The pistons that came out were the original factory fitted ones. Judging by what I've seen,grey,and sand Land Rovers are rare beasts. There were two in this town,but one was repainted Nato Green two years ago,and is due to be redone in Deep Bronze Green,which is a "modern" colour,slightly *lighter* than Bronze Green.The other one is still light grey.There is a very nice 11A Station Wagon '70 S11A in light green,but the vast majority are either Marine Blue or Bronze Green,with the blue having the edge,if anything.Personally I prefer Bronze Green as being the "working" colour of old Rovers,and the *only* colour you could get for a long time.Which is why mine is now Deep Bronze Green,(well I didnt know the difference when I got the paint). Bear in mind,though,all this is home market stuff.Its fascinating to find how the export versions differed from what we had to put up with at home. Cheers Mike Rooth From root Thu Oct 21 11:39:14 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:26:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: Re: roof racks To: The Paddler Cc: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I stand corrected... Although, I have considerable doubt you've worked around the UAW (I won't make an assumption again ;) ) with a response like "as if it matters." I've watched foriegn autos flipped because of there origin and when there are only to guys doing the flipping, you take note. I also don't argue macro econ with anyone, I just pay my taxes and hope that our country doesn't go bankrupt, too. --chris On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote: > > > Great. As if it's not enough with the ribbing that I take driving a > > non-american product, I would go out and buy a (most likely) japaneese roof > > rack! At least with the Rover, Detroit people are curious and like > > everywhere, quite enthusiastic once they find out what it is! > > > > --chris > > > > On Wed, 20 Oct 1993, The Paddler wrote: > > > > > Go for the Yakimma roof racks. I guess I am really quite a believer in > > > their products (but alas not on thier payroll...) > > Sorry to disappoint Chris, but Yakimma is not Japanese, it is a word that > comes from a North American Indian dialect. Yakimma racks is American. > As if it matters anyway! > > --Jeff > > "Ok! So it's American! <---Insert any convenient country here. > I'm not holding that > against it and neither > should you!" > From root Thu Oct 21 11:45:36 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 12:36:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: Re: roof racks To: ROY CALDWELL Cc: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: <9310211327.AA07303@mtnoca.helena_noc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO These sound really interesting. My needs are a little different than Jeff's, since I really need to be able to slide 4x8 sheets up on top, thus need a hinged back on the rack to let the sheets "hang out the back" and obviously for this the rack needs be quite well attatched. I'll ask my sister, who works for REI if she knows about any clamps like that. Thanks. --chris On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, ROY CALDWELL wrote: > > Chris, > > I guess it's time to jump in here. I like you > don't want to pay the price RN want's for their > expedition rack. Plus I want something that > can be removed so I can take the hardtop off. > I have a friend that will build a rack to my specs. > Those are like the RN rack. But I am going to > use the Quik-Clamps to attach it to the roof. > They fit on the rain gutter perfectly and can > be locked so nobody can come along and just flip > them open and run. I haven't seen these clamps > for some time but I also haven't looked because > I had mine. They are aluminum and have an arch > that clears the Rover roof, depending on placement > with about a 1/2 inch spacer. They have a hole > on the top which is used to bolt what ever type > of rack you want. The last time I saw them > advertised it was in the Rec. Equip. catalog. > You might try a store that caters to kayak people. > I will look on my clamps and see if there is an address > or something. Anyway that's the way I am going for > a roof rack. Hope it helps. > > Roy > From root Thu Oct 21 13:46:44 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: racks To: Bellas Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310211814.AA02931@gamma.tti.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Bellas wrote: > Any idea how much, with proper weight distributing mounts, you could feasibly > put on a roof rack? I am currently looking at some major repairs to my pickup > truck, but would rather put the money into the 109 restoration. If I could > build a roof rack that would carry some lumber from time to time then I > really don't need the truck. Seems to me though that it would need to be able > to take perhaps 500 lbs worth for this option to work. Am I nuts or could it > be done? > Well to start 500lbs is a lot of weight. It is how the weight is dealt with the racks and then by the roof and then by the body, etc, that really matters. I f you concentrated all the weight onto say the front right corner of the rack, well I would be surprised to see some sort of failure or at least damage somehwere in the system. Keep the weight even over the towers of the rack...(Lumber is really good at distribting weight) Just remember if you mount the rack on the gutters of the roof, that is your first connection with the vehicle and it's herre that will have to deal with compressional weight and lifting forces when you drive down the road. 500lbs? Could be done...carefully. --Jeff ps I'd be inerested in hearing about your making a rack. From root Thu Oct 21 13:42:03 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 14:35:46 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: roof racks To: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Cc: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 21 Oct 1993, Christopher Cuel Barbeau wrote: > I stand corrected... Although, I have considerable doubt you've worked around > the UAW (I won't make an assumption again ;) ) with a response like "as > if it matters." I've watched foriegn autos flipped because of there origin > and when there are only to guys doing the flipping, you take note. I also > don't argue macro econ with anyone, I just pay my taxes and hope that our > country doesn't go bankrupt, too. > > --chris > No but I do hold an IA permit so I have an idea what you're talking about! You're macro econ policies are a good idea because those types of arguments are really very cyclical(sp?) Please understand my response was light hearted and not intended as a flame!! --Jeff From root Thu Oct 21 13:15:10 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 11:14:40 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: racks Status: RO Good point about climbing on one. The answer is...yeeesss.. You could. I got the impression that the racks would be used mainly for skis and various bits of sporting equipment, but yes you could and it would support you, but I would consider that verging on abuse...If you want people carryin' racks, get the RN racks. Any idea how much, with proper weight distributing mounts, you could feasibly put on a roof rack? I am currently looking at some major repairs to my pickup truck, but would rather put the money into the 109 restoration. If I could build a roof rack that would carry some lumber from time to time then I really don't need the truck. Seems to me though that it would need to be able to take perhaps 500 lbs worth for this option to work. Am I nuts or could it be done? -Pete- From root Thu Oct 21 18:49:20 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: daryl@rt1.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: racks and roof loading To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 9:08:11 CST In-Reply-To: <9310211814.AA02931@gamma.tti.com>; from "Bellas" at Oct 21, 93 11:14 am Status: RO Pete Bellas writes: {stuff deleted} > Seems to me though that it would need to be able > to take perhaps 500 lbs worth for this option to work. Am I nuts or could it > be done? If I remember rightly in one of the rover manuals there is a category which lists "maximum roof load". I think it is under general specifications. I remember being horrified that my full length roof rack, (bolted to the gutter via 6 u shaped struts in much the same way as someone on the list described recently) was heavier than the total allowable roof loading. If need be I can dig this up. Mind you it is probably just another example of rovers rather cautious approach. Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon _-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" v From root Fri Oct 22 03:44:06 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mike Rooth Subject: Correction To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 9:45:01 BST Status: RO A correction to my previous post,the advert is dated April 1958. It says:- "Both models are now available in a range of 6 attractive colours- bronze green,light green,fawn,dark grey,light grey and marine blue." Price new for a petrol 88" was 640 quid. Makes you sick,dunnit? Cheers Mike Rooth From root Thu Oct 21 17:37:46 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com Subject: For Sale: '78 Diesel LR88 SIII To: lro@stratus.com (lro@stratus.com) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 16:29:43 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi Land Rover fans, I am selling my LR and you could be the proud new owner. It is located in Greeley, Colorado. 1978 model 88 diesel right hand drive Pickup top The body is in good shape but needs paint. The PU top was added by the PO has what looks like hail damage. The bed is banged up. Interior is good. Frame is very good with a little surface rust where the paint has been chipped off. Mileage is unknown as the speedo cable was disconnected when I bought it. The PO had let it sit for ~14 years and the cylinders had gotten pretty badly rusted. I have pulled the pistons and honed the cylinders. I inspected the head and bearings they are good. I replaced the rings. Runs well now. I am asking $3500. I am sure I have forgotten something so send me E-mail with your questions or call me (wk: 303-229-3422 hm: 303-351-0004) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Kevin Spooner The Sports Works of Greeley Specializing in Triumphs and British Sports Cars britcars@hpfckjs.fc.hp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From root Thu Oct 21 19:09:08 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Welding Aluminum From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1993 16:22:35 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Response to ccray&lulu You can butt weld aluminum but I prefer a lap joint. I would not try to weld vertically again. I tried it once on my old series III, the heat warped the panel, and the welds, though solid looked terrible. This is before I discoversd Lumiweld. I would remove the fender and weld on a bench because it allows better control. Practice on pieces of scrap first. You have a panel flanger. Neat. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Oct 21 17:56:57 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 15:22:44 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: Frame Oiling Status: RO >could you comment to the lro listserv group the oiling operation -- that >is -- what is used (diesel fuel??) and the tools. When I was living Downeast (in the StateO'Maine, that is), I remember hearing about an oiling party. At the time my Land Rover frame was so full of holes that it wouldn't have held any oil, so I didn't go. What they did, however, was to drive the vehicles onto a 45 degree ramp. They then sprayed bar and chain oil - real sticky stuff - into and onto every place they could reach. I think they used an air compressor and some sort of wand. This had to be done during a dry stretch of weather, because the next step was to drive down dirt roads to get a nice fresh coating of dust into the fresh bar and chain oil to hold it all in place and form a skin. I'll try to fire off a snail mail request for more detailed information on the tools used. <----------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Information Resources | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <----------------------------------------------------------> From root Fri Oct 22 08:22:00 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 08:16:00 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 21, 93 04:22:35 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1619 Status: RO I was pretty satisfied last night. I converted two SIII door skins into SII door skins by welding a patch over the keylock hole. I had been f**k*** with TIG on an overly complicated $4000 rig and it was coming slowly. Last night I used a spool gun attached to a MIG welder. Although the welds didn't look too good, the penetration was correct and it was fast and easy. I will grind down the welds anyway, so I am ready to go into production mode. -- 69 front fender lights -- converted to pre-69 model -- fill a heater vent hole in a fender skin -- fill two wing-mirror holes on my daily driver. -- others... I did have one melt thru, but I put a piece of steel strap behind it and neatly filled it back in. The aluminum filler wire doesn't stick to the steel. For the record, a spool gun looks like a revolver. A spool of aluminum filler is inside the back of the gun. The spool is about 3" in diameter. The aluminum wire only has to be pushed about 1 foot. A normal MIG outfit has problems pushing the thin aluminum wire the 10 ft or so thru the hoses. The aluminum filler wire was 4041 which is supposedly a good compromise for all types. The argon gas and current comes from the MIG attachment. You set the feed rate and amperage, point and click. A little bit of weaving makes for a proper weld. I utilized lap joints last night, but with a steel backup plate, I will attempt butt welds next tuesday night. I did my practicing on scrap aluminum they had at the adult education shop, but my production welds were with pieces of birmabrite (sp?) cut from unusable parts (never throw away old LR parts). From root Fri Oct 22 09:03:37 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 15:05:56 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310221316.AA17794@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 22, 93 8:16 am Status: RO You say you have filled in the keylock holes in a S111 door to make it into a S11 door.I have a question.What keylock holes? The only difference between *our* S11 & 11A doors and the S111,are the window "locks" inside.The keylock mechanism is in one with the door handle/ latch assembly.There is no separate hole in the door for a lock.Is this yet another North American specification? Curious Cheers Mike Rooth PS The rest I can understand:-) From root Fri Oct 22 10:58:19 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 08:57:00 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum Status: RO In message <9310221405.AA03389@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mike Rooth writes: > You say you have filled in the keylock holes in a S111 door to make > it into a S11 door.I have a question.What keylock holes? The only > difference between *our* S11 & 11A doors and the S111,are the window > "locks" inside.The keylock mechanism is in one with the door handle/ > latch assembly.There is no separate hole in the door for a lock.Is > this yet another North American specification? > Curious > Cheers > Mike Rooth > PS The rest I can understand:-) Mike I'm glad you can understand what the person who is doing the welding (he didn't sign his name so I have no idea who he is) is up to. Welding up the hole on the right that serves as the fresh air intake for a heater strikes me as the act of someone who does not have a heater and dosn't want one ... ever. Even on the central California coast, I would be lost without my heater & defroster. Then welding up the holes for wing mirrors... I wouldn't take them off ANY of my cars!!!!! My wing mirrors allow me to keep an eye on the tail lights of the car in front of me AND know whats going on on both sides of me. You have to turn your head for those dumb door mirrors. Besides, wing mirrors set classic British cars off from the general mob. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS775519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Fri Oct 22 10:41:29 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 10:36:00 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310221405.AA03389@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 22, 93 03:05:56 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1505 Status: RO > You say you have filled in the keylock holes in a S111 door to make > it into a S11 door.I have a question.What keylock holes? The only > difference between *our* S11 & 11A doors and the S111,are the window > "locks" inside.The keylock mechanism is in one with the door handle/ > latch assembly.There is no separate hole in the door for a lock.Is > this yet another North American specification? Well, I had sold 2 doors that I had from my parts car (why, I don't know -- yes, it was to help a friend, I remember). Anyway, I I wanted to have two to paint off the car. (If I paint the bonnet, doors, door tops, rear door off the car, then paint the rest of the car; then bolt on these parts, it would be *easier* I said to myself). So, I bought two doors and door tops from this guy in Colorado. He *said* they were SIII doors. The only difference -- per him -- was the keyholes near the door handle opening and the door stay. The door stay had a strap and a spring riding in a cavity. On the SIIa, the door stay was a rod that had a rubber fitting that rode in a tube in the bulkhead. Anyway, the doors were of top quality used, but I had to cut off the door stay assembly and fabricate the older-style hinge pin bracket. And fill in the keyholes utilizing aluminum welding techniques. The door hinges weren't present, but you could tell from the paint that they were square and note the oval shape of the SIIa Save any money, you say -- hardly -- but I am enhancing my mechanical skills... From root Fri Oct 22 11:24:51 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Wing mirrors To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 11:20:45 CDT In-Reply-To: <9310221557.AA10083@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Oct 22, 93 8:57 am Status: RO TeriAnn said: > ... You have to turn your head for those dumb > door mirrors. Besides, wing mirrors set classic British cars off > from the general mob. Having never had them before, all I can say is that wing mirrors look great. I am planning on putting them on my LR. I note that Rovers North has both round and rectangular types available. Any idea what would have been original on a 1969 88" NADA vehicle? Or would door mounted (actually hinge mounted, right?) have been stock? My LR did not come with any mirrors at all... Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From root Fri Oct 22 12:17:55 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 10:15:58 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum Status: RO On holes; > welding up the holes for wing mirrors... LR's without wing mirrors came from the factory with a plastic plug in the hole, at least for a while, after the top hinge with the mirror hole was invented. Mark, look for the holes. They are through the rib that is about in line with the grill. Suggest convex mirrors, especially on the wings, as the field of view is small when they are far away. On racks; The weight limit for roof racks is for safe off-road performance. Carrying a load of lumber on city streets is OK... to a point. Some kind of rain gutter clamp is better than drilling holes, 'cause your gona' change your mind and do it different next year. I can FAX or e-mail an Autocad file of a drawing of gutter clamps that I make. They work good and are not hard to fab. $.02 R, bg From root Fri Oct 22 11:59:15 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:57:15 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Wing mirrors Status: RO In message <9310221620.AA00284@shute.monsanto.com> Mark V Grieshaber writes: > Any idea what would have > been original on a 1969 88" NADA vehicle? Or would door mounted (actually > hinge mounted, right?) have been stock? My LR did not come with any > mirrors at all... Mark, My first Land Rover, a 1969 88 had round wing mirrors, as does my 109. It used to be that you could get convex wing mirrors for the Land Rover, but they no longer seem to be available. I recently replaced my old cracked ones with new flat ones then stuck on the convex mirror stickons. Only problem with that is that the stickons are more convex than the originals and you do not seed cars will until they are along side (but I do like to see whats sitting on my flanks). My TR3 has convex wing mirrors, and I'm planing to put a pair of bullet racing mirrors on the BGT's wings. Once you get used to them, the door mounted ones sem to awkward & dangerous. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS775519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Fri Oct 22 11:57:19 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 22 Oct 93 08:57:00 PDT." <9310221557.AA10083@apple.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 12:56:25 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO TeriAnn writes: > Then welding up the holes for wing mirrors... > I wouldn't take them off ANY of my cars!!!!! My wing mirrors allow me to > keep an eye on the tail lights of the car in front of me AND know whats > going on on both sides of me. You have to turn your head for those dumb > door mirrors. Besides, wing mirrors set classic British cars off > from the general mob. I don't have wing mirrors, but it looks like there are a couple of holes for them (from the factory ?), they have some sort of standard type body plug in them. If you don't want you're old wing mirrors, would you ship 'em my way ? :-) --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com From root Fri Oct 22 16:01:04 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Subject: The rover's north discount program Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 16:53:41 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO It is always mentioned in their flyer to call Rover's North and ask about their discount program, well, I did, and I asked a bunch of questions. Well, you may know that it starts at $1000, and can go up to 20%, but basically, what happens is after you spend $X000, then you can tell them you want to 'cash in' on the program. Depending on how many X*$1000 you spent, they will credit your account with some percentage of what you spent, to be more precise Spend * Credit => Value $1000 7% $ 70 $2000 10% $ 200 $3000 12% $ 360 $4000 15% $ 600 $5000 20% $1000 At least that is what I got over the phone. My guess is that once you ask for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again. -- Bill From root Sat Oct 23 14:32:07 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1993 15:16:13 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@stratus.com Cc: x92nca@esseX.stfx.ca Subject: wet wires Status: RO The last owner of my LR left the vent control open on one side, and lots of water has made it's way to the dask panel. I would like to dry this out before putting it up for the winter. Aside from a hair drier, what would be the best thing? mythal-hydrate? or brake pad clearer....hmmmmm any ideas? Thanks, David S. From root Mon Oct 25 05:46:36 1993 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 10:50:15 GMT Cc: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310221316.AA17794@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 22, 93 8:16 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Well done on the Aluminium welding! Could you mail or post the details of the MIG set and Al spooler? What happened about the special goggles.... -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From root Sun Oct 24 22:54:24 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: DAVID SPENCER Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: wet wires In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:16:13 -0400." <00974740.032F0040.7732@esseX.stfx.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 23:55:05 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > The last owner of my LR left the vent control open on one side, and > lots of water has made it's way to the dask panel. > Aside from a hair drier, what would be the best thing? mythal-hydrate? > or brake pad clearer....hmmmmm > any ideas? I'd stick with the hair dryer -- Any of the solvents may push the water out, but they would also remove useful components of any plastic/poly vinyl wiring covering (they tend to remove plasticizers, things that make wiring flexible -- not that most 25 year old wiring is flexible to start with...) -- Bill From root Sun Oct 24 22:51:52 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: discount In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:40:42 GMT." <9310231540.AA96594@y1.sdsc.edu> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 23:52:02 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Bill wrote: >My guess is that once you ask > for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again. > I am not so sure about this......I think it is a 1-shot deal. That way, Right, What I understood is that you spend $5000, they then credit you with $1000 to spend at your favorite Rovers North outlet, and then, after getting your $1000 worth of parts, you could probably sign up again and spend another $5000.... Not so much a one-shot, as a 'batch' discount program... I mean, I've gone through what my rover needs (firewall, engine work, suspension) and stuff that I'd like to do (paint, weather strip (all), and generally a good does of typical rover accessories, and lots of rubber parts that are almost as old as I am... and came up with well over $5000 in Rover's North parts costs... If I can save 20-30%, and still get Land Rover parts, That is almost enough money to get a whole frame, and between my rover being held together by POW (previous owner welding and previous owner wiring) [One spring perch is the better part of an inch further back than it ought to be !], doing the new frame thing seems to be a better Idea when looking at a truck which could easily survive and be lots of fun through its second 25 years... Somehow, looking at the P.O.Welding, I get this queasey feeling about slapping a Warn 9000 on the front... Anyone else out there started with a new frame ? I talked to my welder friend and he said $200 in tubing for the external roll cage (ala Paris-Dakar /US Spec Defender 110"s) and the roof rack would be (relatively) inexpensive... - cheers, -- Bill From root Mon Oct 25 05:54:36 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: please, my hard drive suffers... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 23:49:53 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Seventy six messages asking how to dry out a Series III and another asking about the echo in here... Oh well, Land Rover news. Today was spent starting the process of a frame up restoration of Dave Meadows Series IIA swb. Wings, roof, and other miscellaneous parts have come off leading to a happy time with a sand blaster later this week. That the front part of the roof is held on with ten nuts and bolts seems a bit excessive. More progress later... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sun Oct 24 22:31:03 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com Subject: I guess they parked two Suns next to one another... Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 23:27:07 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO And we know they communicate. Well, sometime earlier this month my SysAdmin let me know he was about to install the latest and greatest (?) sendmail on the system. Looks like they forgot to torque something down, 'cause mail was sent flying all about -- kinda like gear lube on the rear part of my chassis... Have fun using the big 'D' key and see ya later.. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: <199310250258.WAA13473@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> Subject: A few extra copies... To: caloccia (William Caloccia) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 22:58:27 -0400 (EDT) I suspect that some of your mailing list recipients have received more copies than they wanted. A bug in the locking was found and fixed. Things should be ok as of 2100 Sunday evening. Jim ------- End of Forwarded Message From root Sun Oct 24 16:10:05 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Frame Oiler From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 12:13:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Some asked about the frame oiler that OVLR was to hold. Well, the events of the day were basically such... At 8:00 am Al Pilgrim and Roy Bailey arrived at the fields of a former Land Rover owner. Despite advancing age, the lack of a Land Rover that he can care for, the donor of the land insists that the club keep coming to his place in Dunrobin (a small community west of Ottawa) and keep active in the Land Rover community. Roy brings an industrial compressor, Al the club trailer with an abundance of food for breakfast and lunch. By 8:30 the first two LAnd Rovers arrive, a later Series IIA 88", and an early Series IIA 109 pick-up replete with massive plough for the coming ice age. Plastic sheeting covered with plywood and cardboard are laid out, and two very large ramps are placed upon the covered ground. The Land Rover to be bathed in a lovely solution of undercoating, having a consistency described by aome as like baby shit as it sticks to everything, is alternately backed up, or drive forward onto these ramps, raising the end by some two and a half feet. With spray attachment, a one litre can of goop, the lucky Land Rover owner can commence to spray the undercarriage to his hearts content. Refilling when the supply is exhausted, it will usually take between two and three litres to cover an 88", some three to four to do a 109. By the time you get to six litres, the stuff is generally dripping all over the place. As initially there were time limits, I only managed to get a litre and three-quarters onto my 109, having to wait 'till the others were done with theirs before I could go back and complete the task. Of course, by this time the ground was well soaked, so resourcefully I offered a pair of beer (quarts no less) to an already soaked individual to address my 109 again... :-) Generally, one sprays the stuff everywhere possible. Into the mydrid frame holes, coating the frame, the petrol tank, springs... Generally anything that is made of steel. The amount of salt dropped up here, to allow poor drivers California-like driving conditions year round, is pretty horrific. It can also take upwards of an hour to do a proper job. Other Land Rovers treated included a NADA 109 six cylinder station wagon (of the type described in this month's LRO magazine where they hint that none exist anymore, though there are three in OVLR); an early SIIA 88" pick-up, Dale's diesel 88", a SIII 88", one Jeep, American pick-up and an MGB. The club also gathered two new members bringing membership locally up to 72 individuals. Next years plans call for two lines from the compressor to speed up the operation, and probably inviting the local Triumph and MGB clubs along. Cost is reasonable, CDN$25 for all the oil you can spray plus lunch and lots of coffee. Attendence was low due to the typical unco-operative services of Canada Post, who unlike the efficieny of the InterNet e-mail, seems to be unable to deliver the club newsletter to an address within a 30 mile radius of their sorting station within a week and a half period. Without said newsletter, needed guidance in how to get to the oiling party were sorely lacking. Amazing, considering that Canada could raise an army, send it to Manitoba from central Canada over a rail system 50% completed and put down a rebellion in less time than it takes to mail a letter from Ottawa to Winnipeg. Rgds, Dixon "of the dripping, oil sprayed 109, all ready for winter fun" -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sun Oct 24 11:35:06 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: echo From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:35:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > is there an echo in here??????? The two of you echoed back and forth for quite a few messages. I'd say our St. FX friend was good for 20 plus copies, and yourself for about ten. Methinks the mailing-list software may be acting up. For two systems to dump the same originating message that many times? Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sun Oct 24 11:48:18 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: wet wires From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:32:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO DAVID SPENCER writes: > The last owner of my LR left the vent control open on one side, and > lots of water has made it's way to the dask panel. > > I would like to dry this out before putting it up for the winter. No ideas here. I'm basically classified by some as a philistine. I clean the inside of my 109 with a hose. I wouldn't think that a SIII dash would suffer that much from being wet and drying out with the help of Mr. AirDry. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sun Oct 24 12:05:06 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f To: lro@stratus.com Subject: The rover's north discount program From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:27:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO William Caloccia writes: > It is always mentioned in their flyer to call Rover's North and ask > about their discount program, well, I did, and I asked a bunch of > questions. Spend US$5,000 to get the 20%!? Good god, what a prohibitive number. Your could basically bring an average 88 up to concours shape with such cash. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Sat Oct 23 10:42:49 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 15:40:42 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: discount Status: RO Bill wrote: >My guess is that once you ask for the credit, you account starts counting at $0 again. I am not so sure about this......I think it is a 1-shot deal. That way, if you've spent big buck$, and plan to spend more, you're roped in (all your new bits get 20% discount-the day you cash in-but once you cash in it is all over......so what is the incentive for cashing in if you intend to buy more parts in the future?? and who DOESN'T plan to buy more parts in the future??). It would be nice, however, if this were not the case- each time you hit $5K, you cash in and start over again. Even so, I am not so sure this deal can compete with dixon's monthly trans- atlantic express (from Merseyside)-(but did we ever figure out the import duty in the US?? Other items I have got from the motherland (not auto bits) were slapped with a hefty tax of near 17% as I recall, and I would not be surprised if the >20yr. rule does not exist south of the canadian border). rd/nige From root Fri Oct 22 17:48:54 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: transfer.stratus.com: daemon set sender to car-list-rejects@stratus.com using -f Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 15:15:16 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com Subject: Racks Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Monty, I understand the $ problem. If you like to do these kinds of things you can buy the material *and* the welding equipment and do it your self for $300. If you don't want to bother with welding and the learning curve then you could design, buy the material and cut the parts with a hacksaw and vice, then have someone weld it. If you look around you might find a high school or JC shop class that would weld for cheap. Mine is made from 1/2 X 1/2 and 1/2 X 1" .062 wall, square tube that I can buy for ~ 60 cents a foot. You can make a nice one for $100. Mine is in two halves, front and rear. I did this because I have an "Air Camping" tent, which is a neat deal that has its own mounts for the top of the Rover. It unfolds, a ladder drops and I sleep up top away from the lions and tigers and bears, oh, my. When it's on the rear half, I only have the front half of the rack on. It has spots for 4 Jerry cans but it is about 60"X 36" so there's lots of room for stoves, food and beer, ect... There are several Rovers out here that have roof racks that have sockets on the side that fit fiber glass tent poles that when installed make hoops like on a covered wagon. Put a tarp over the hoops and you have a nice tent with a mattress, so your away from the critters and mud. Works good. Regards, Bill G. PS, There is a picture of a 109 with two "Air Camping" tents on top in "Land Rover, Work Horse of The World" if you have that book. From root Mon Oct 25 12:23:37 1993 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: rebuilt carb, part left over In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:19:03 EDT." <199310251519.LAA18359@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:15:34 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO I can't speak for your specific Carb rebuild kit, but it is not unusual for such kits to have a number of 'extra' parts in them. Often over the run of manufacture of a carb, there are slight variations made in jets and gaskets, and the same unit is used in other vehicles with different base plates, etc. -- bill From root Mon Oct 25 10:49:10 1993 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:46:52 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: discount Status: RO In message <9310231540.AA96594@y1.sdsc.edu> dushin russell writes: > > Bill wrote: stuff deleted > Even so, I am not so sure this deal can compete with dixon's monthly trans- > atlantic express (from Merseyside)-(but did we ever figure out the import > duty in the US?? Other items I have got from the motherland (not auto bits) > were slapped with a hefty tax of near 17% as I recall, and I would not be > surprised if the >20yr. rule does not exist south of the canadian border). > > rd/nige If I remember, car parts duty is 3.1% coming into the US. I signed up for the Rovers North discount but have switched over to the UK direct discount with in most cases is well over 50% off Rovers North prices after shipping and duty. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From root Mon Oct 25 10:21:21 1993 From: Dan Chayes Subject: rebuilt carb, part left over To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:19:03 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO Hello all in rover land - Thanks all for the advice on the exhaust manifold exit studs. I put heli-coils in over the weekend, reassembled and poof - no more exhaust leak. An enough back preasure for the engine to run better. Now I can stay in overdrive on the highway, even up slight grades. I also rebulit the carb, a zenith, with a rebuild kit from RN. The question here is that I had a few parts left over, the ones that concern me are; the small "jet" like item, the short spring, about a 1/2" long, what looks like a shaft seal, or round washer about 1/4" in diamater None of these items were installed in the carb when I disassembled it - and I it looks like I put all the parts that belong there, from looking at the pictures. It is possible that the carb had been assembled improperly, that I'm misreading the pictures or I just plain screwed up. Anybody have any similar expirences with carb rebuilds ? In addition, the instructions for adjusting the carb are 1) screw mixture screw all the way in ( hand tight ) 2) set idle to 800 with idle adjustment screw 3) adjust mixture screw for maximum rpm's 3) reset idle ot 800 with idle adjustment screw The problem here is that changing the mixture screw ( step 3 ) does not change the idle. Any good advice ? On another topic, the block of my engine is limestone white and I have a $1600 recipt for an engine rebuild by the PO in '84. I guess O-yea the land rover in question is a 2.25l petrol '74 series III. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil From root Mon Oct 25 08:57:03 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 08:51:53 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310251050.AA07602@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at Oct 25, 93 10:50:15 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3485 Status: RO > > Could you mail or post the details of the MIG set and Al spooler? > What happened about the special goggles.... > -- My MIG welding outfit is a HOBART HANDLER 120. I bought it about 4 years ago when my son redid his chevy 4x4 truck. At the time, I looked at the HOBART and the LINCOLN 110. I thought they were both about the same, but in the end: -- The Hobart dealer had exchange cylinders about 2 ft tall for gas (I got two -- the 75/25 mix for steel and the argon for AL). The Lincoln dealer wanted me to lease for 20 years *large* 5ft cylinders -- a lot bigger than I wanted. -- The Hobart had a built-in regulator for gas -- the Lincoln had it as an add-on -- The Hobart had a teflon lining in the 10-ft hose -- per the dealer, it would allow aluminum wire to be pushed thru it. The Lincoln required an add-on kit to make this happen. -- The Lincoln had infinite controls on both the amperage and the wire feed. The Hobart had infinite control on the wire feed, but 4 definite settings for current. Per the Hobart dealer, this wasn't important for most situations. -- The cost as I remember it was: welder-$450, cyl1 $65 cyl2 $65, fill-cyl1 $20, fill-cyl2 $20, little cart $40. total $660. I bought it during some big tent sale. So, over the past 4 years, I have had lots of fun welding up steel projects. The MIG is easy to use and I weld up to 1/4 inch steel (with multiple passes). My son's friends come over and with about 5 minutes practice, weld in patch panels and fix holes in mufflers. About 3 years ago, I welded a little aluminum with this Hobart rig. At that time, the aluminum wire did indeed push thru the 10 ft hose. My welds were strong, but They didn't look good. And it was frustrating 'cause I didn't feel I was in control of the process. My aluminum welds were on clean pieces of birmabrite, lying flat on my garage floor. It was not clear (I guess it was clear) how I could do it on the car in a vertical position. That is why I took the adult education course. Oh, and another thing, I bought some pieces of scrap aluminum to practice on and that was a real eye-opener. I knew I needed more practice, but put it off cause I couldn't rationalize the cost of the practice sessions. So, What I have learned in the class is: -- TIG welding is not easy for me either and I surely don't want to invest in that kind of equipment. -- The MIG welding rig at the class did have infininte control over both amperage and wirefeed and with aluminum welding this is important. -- My Hobart rig at home has had about 6 10pound spools of steel wire fed thru it -- it will nolonger feed aluminum. I need to invest in a new teflon lining, but have not gotten around to that. -- Free aluminum scrap makes practice more fun. The instructor didn't have any experience with gas welding of aluminum. A buddy of mine (I *need* to go see him) said gas welding aluminum is not too hard. He has a couple of big healys and portions of the front of that car is aluminum, also. HE is the one that recommended: -- the head-absorbing fixing putty to contain the heat, reducing heat warpage -- the blue goggles -- apparently with gas welding, the silver molten pool of aluminum is easier to see with the special goggles. And now, my signature for those critical people... Ray Harder 314-882-2000 61 SIIa 88 66 SIIa 88 (pieces, being rebuilt) 69 SIIa 88 (parts car, totally in boxes) 87 RR (wife's) From root Mon Oct 25 13:47:08 1993 To: William Caloccia Cc: "TeriAnn Wakeman" , M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Welding Aluminum In-Reply-To: caloccia's message of Fri, 22 Oct 93 09:56:25 -0800. <199310221656.MAA02677@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" Status: RO If you don't want you're old wing mirrors, would you ship 'em my way ? :-) Moss makes decent reproductions, cheap. Get the ones with convex lenses. From root Mon Oct 25 20:38:39 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: discount From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 18:04:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > If I remember, car parts duty is 3.1% coming into the US. I signed up for > the Rovers North discount but have switched over to the UK direct > discount with in most cases is well over 50% off Rovers North prices after > shipping and duty. Could you confirm the duty? I'll add it to the FAQ. > 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||||||||| Hmmm, raising the stakes eh... ;-) Rgds, Dixon "Rover VIN numbers are held in with screws" -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Wed Oct 27 12:30:23 1993 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1993 13:14:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: Re: Drawing of Roof Rack Brackets To: "William L. Grouell" Cc: Land Rover Maillist In-Reply-To: <9310260009.AA18513@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Thanks. I'll have to get ACAD12 loaded up to take a look though, since Ver 11 wouldn't interpret it correctly and that's all I've got installed right now. I've got v12 on tape, just haven't taken the time yet to get it running. This will probably be a spring project, the winter project is considering one of those electric fans to replace the belt driven fan. I've got most everything apart to change over from a generator to an alternator ('69 IIa 88") in that area anyway, so I'm thinking about it. Dirk at RN said that they haven't looked into it yet, so I might call Merryside and see what the official word is... --chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ccb@umich.edu . o c , The illusion of free will is useful barbeau@io.eecs.umich.edu `'#+-- --+#`' to the politicians, occasionally 73210,3722@compuserve /'> <`\ I like to remind them I know this. ============================================================================== From root Wed Oct 27 17:02:04 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Oil Cooler To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:30:18 CDT Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Status: RO Anyone have any first-hand experience with oil coolers? Do they hold up? or are they prone to leakage? I recently rebuilt my 2.25 petrol engine and am considering an oil cooler with thermastat. I am being transferred to Houston and my Rover will have to undergo the 500 mile drive as well as dealing with the lovely summer weather that makes Houston such a world class (last) resort destination...so...I'm thinking this might be a good investment. -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From root Wed Oct 27 19:36:43 1993 To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Oil Cooler In-Reply-To: twakeman's message of Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:59:18 -0800. <9310272359.AA08875@apple.com> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" Status: RO My oil cooler experience is limited to various Triumphs; in all cases, I added the cooler. My recommendation is overwhelmingly positive. Not only does it help lonvgevity of the engine and keep the oil pressure up (even after extended highway driving), it adds about a quart to the oil system, which is a really good thing for our cars that leak! From root Wed Oct 27 18:59:26 1993 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 93 16:59:18 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com, Rover@apple.com, Owners@apple.com Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Status: RO In message <199310272130.AA24963@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> writes: > Anyone have any first-hand experience with oil coolers? > Do they hold up? or are they prone to leakage? > > I recently rebuilt my 2.25 petrol engine and am considering an oil > cooler with thermastat. I am being transferred to Houston and my Rover > will have to undergo the 500 mile drive as well as dealing with the > lovely summer weather that makes Houston such a world class (last) resort > destination...so...I'm thinking this might be a good investment. > > > > -- > *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* > * * > * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * > * Project Manager | understand what you think was * > * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * > * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * > * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * > * * > *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* > Paul, My experience is limited to MGBs & TR3s (aftermarket). They are all favourable. There is an optional oil cooler available for the Land Rover, that fits to the radiator and comes with a special modified oil pan. If I was going to put one on the Rover, I would go with the factory option. Its my understanding though they were intended primarily for Land Rovers that spend a lot of time stationary with the engine runing. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Any thoughts expressed above are mine twakeman@apple.com Unless they are worth anything. Then they LINK: TWAKEMAN become the property of my employer. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From ccray Thu Oct 28 08:13:24 1993 Subject: end of summer here... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:13:24 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 199 Status: RO I bolted on my door tops this morning. Guess that is one sign of many that summer is over here in Missouri. It It is really great pulling those tops off on a nice day and letting the air flow... From root Thu Oct 28 08:20:18 1993 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: end of summer here... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 08:13:24 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 198 Status: RO I bolted on my door tops this morning. Guess that is one sign of many that summer is over here in Missouri. It It is really great pulling those tops off on a nice day and letting the air flow... From root Thu Oct 28 09:06:29 1993 From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: end of summer here... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 9:18:35 CDT Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310281313.AA16239@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 28, 93 8:13 am Status: RO > I bolted on my door tops this morning. Guess that is one > sign of many that summer is over here in Missouri. It Does that include putting the top back on also, or do you wait for heavy snow? :-( -- ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * VOICE 913.599.1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913.599.0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * ******************* phhesterph@ingr.com ****************** From root Thu Oct 28 10:53:01 1993 Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 15:40:17 GMT From: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: huh? Status: RO TeriAnn wrote: >Its my understanding though they were intended primarily for Land Rovers that spend a lot of time stationary with the engine runing. These coolers must draw air via the fan???? Is an oversized fan also required? Otherwise, this cannot make sense.......a stationary "radiated" oil cooler would do little without a fresh flow of air through it, I would think. rdushin From root Thu Oct 28 11:14:34 1993 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: huh? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 11:07:57 CDT In-Reply-To: <9310281540.AA14991@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 28, 93 3:40 pm Status: RO Russell wrote: > These coolers must draw air via the fan???? Is an oversized fan also required? > Otherwise, this cannot make sense.......a stationary "radiated" oil cooler would > do little without a fresh flow of air through it, I would think. The only one I've seen (ex military 109) was mounted directly in front of the radiator, like a typical airconditioning condenser. It would have air drawn through it (and then the radiator) by the normal fan. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From root Thu Oct 28 11:27:39 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Oil Cooler From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:08:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" writes: > My oil cooler experience is limited to various Triumphs; in all cases, > I added the cooler. My recommendation is overwhelmingly positive. Not > only does it help lonvgevity of the engine and keep the oil pressure up > (even after extended highway driving), it adds about a quart to the oil > system, which is a really good thing for our cars that leak! On Minis I use oil coolers, but then again the 'A' and 'B' blocks are prone to overheating. Your reasoning is fine for other British cars, but as TeriAnn points out, the only time you have to worry about a Land Rover is when the vehicle is operating in a stationary position. At least in this climate, an oil cooler would be a waste of $$$. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Oct 28 11:14:59 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Oil Cooler From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 09:58:10 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes: > Anyone have any first-hand experience with oil coolers? > Do they hold up? or are they prone to leakage? I have never heard of a 2.25l having an oiler cooler added to it. If heat was a problem, I would have thought that I would have read about this in various literature on Land Rover's experience in Africa. The 2.25l is seriously overbuilt and throws off heat at an unbelieveable rate. In fact, going to the frame oiler, the running temperature dropped to 35c with an outdoor ambient temperature of 5c. Needless to say, a new thermostat may be in order, but this does show the rate that the engine sheds heat. In fact, during the two weeks of summer here, when the temperature hit an inferno-like 90f for a couple of days, the 2.25l ran between 70c and 80c. IMHO, I wouldn't bother with the oil cooler, but then again I'm in the tundra where we can run these without fans in the winter. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Thu Oct 28 11:37:23 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: huh? To: u10122@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 16:31:20 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310281540.AA14991@y1.sdsc.edu>; from "dushin russell" at Oct 28, 93 3:40 pm Status: RO > > > TeriAnn wrote: > >Its my understanding though > they were intended primarily for Land Rovers that spend a lot of time stationary > with the engine runing. > > These coolers must draw air via the fan???? Is an oversized fan also required? > Otherwise, this cannot make sense.......a stationary "radiated" oil cooler would > do little without a fresh flow of air through it, I would think. > > rdushin > I would suggest that the fan already *is* oversize. Cheers Mike Rooth From root Thu Oct 28 12:29:38 1993 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Oil Cooler To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:21:57 GMT Cc: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310281701.AA19379@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 28, 93 5:01 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Mike says: > I think the Army Lightweights have oil coolers fitted,dont they? Yup. > Dont know why,though. Maybe 'cos the FFR types sit there xmitting using the 24volt generators (engine running). Maybe 'cos the Military re-overdesign the standard overdesigned LR. Best Regards, Steve. From root Thu Oct 28 12:06:01 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Oil Cooler To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 17:01:36 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 28, 93 9:58 am Status: RO I think the Army Lightweights have oil coolers fitted,dont they? Dont know why,though. Mike Rooth From root Fri Oct 29 07:46:59 1993 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: comparisons To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 12:48:04 GMT Cc: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310291124.AA27102@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 29, 93 11:24 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO I love the sound of a diesel for off road work - no HT failures in rivers would be amazing! I'd be a little worried about the lack of road speed tho'. The expensive Tdi apart, does anyone know of a good diesel engine to put in a SII/III for good road work too? Best Regards, Steve. From root Fri Oct 29 06:26:06 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: comparisons To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:24:31 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Dale Desprey" at Oct 28, 93 4:29 pm Status: RO Dale,its nice to see *someone* besides me has a good word or two for the 2.25 diesel.My experiences are much the same as yours,except that the non-starting problems with mine are always electrical(battery/dynamo/starter motor).The engine itself is always,touch wood,willing enough to have a go. Mind you,I'm not talking about the sort of crippling winters you get.The old girl ('70 11A 88") has succesfully started in -14C weather,but that is the lowest.Warm,for you eh?. I have an interesting comparison,that of the 2.25D and 2.25P *in the same vehicle*.Friend of mine has a S111 which was built and run for many years as a diesel.She never had any starting troubles, bar one session when a heater plug gave up the ghost.Being series wired, 'nuff sed!It pulled beautifully,and was one of the quietest 2.25 diesels I have ever heard,in fact once in motion you wouldt have known it wasnt a petrol engine.OK,it smoked a bit on tickover,but the injectors hadnt been set up for years.Unfortunately her son in law,then in the army,drove it,and blew it up.He was used to petrol lightweights.It was then fitted with a 2.25 petrol engine,ex S11A.This engine has been trouble from the word go(or not,as the case may be).The engine is mechanically in good nick,but suffers from vapour lock in warm weather,overheats(suspect head gasket)etc.The upside is that it is *much* faster.Wet weather upsets it,damp distributor it *wont* have. The vapour lock problem I think is due to the fact that someone has run the fuel line directly from the pump,over the top of the engine to the carb,something I have offered to sort if she gets some fuel line. It is often used for towing a horsebox,and the extra revs needed to get the rig moving are really noticeable,the old diesel used to chunter away virtually at tickover,whereas nowadays a healthy buzz is required. I dont know about you,Dale,but mine makes a terrible row,except when under load.Its very noticeable when towing. On the level,oyu get the impression the thing is about on its last legs, but come an incline and a bit of collar work the noise dies to a healthy rumble.And,like you I *love* to see petrol engines stalled in a rainstorm! Especially Japjeeps. I just wish it was a shade faster.... Cheers Mike Rooth From root Thu Oct 28 17:22:15 1993 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: comparisons From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:29:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO All this talk about oil coolers made me think of how usefull one would have been on the series three 88 that I used to have.( sold to a caring owner). I also started to compare the series three gasoline 2.25 to the 68 diesel 2.25 IIA that I presently have. Gasoline Powered The more it idled, the hotter it got. This could cause the coil to overheat and the engine would barely run. Off road, particulary in mud, I would have to "pump the gas" to prevent stalling at low speed. It would always always start, no matter how cold the weather was. On really cold days the coil would freeze. The only time that I had ever had to have a Land Rover towed home was caused by a frozen coil. The Distributor gets wet when you take it swimming. I have an interesting story about a small lake, wet ignition and a first date. Diesel Powered It idles and gets colder. ( starts to smoke, terrible habit) Off road I can let it idle over lots of terain. It has lots of low end torque. Rarely starts in cold weather. Found a way to boost it with the arc welder. It loves water. Dale Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From root Fri Oct 29 10:17:59 1993 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: comparisons To: sgm@hpl.hewlett-packard.co.uk (Steve Methley) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 15:14:43 GMT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310291248.AA15129@methley2.hpl.hp.com>; from "Steve Methley" at Oct 29, 93 12:48 pm Status: RO > > I love the sound of a diesel for off road work - no HT failures in > rivers would be amazing! I'd be a little worried about the lack of > road speed tho'. The expensive Tdi apart, does anyone know of a good > diesel engine to put in a SII/III for good road work too? > > > Best Regards, > Steve. > Hi Steve, The best all round diesel is said to be the 2.5L naturally aspirated version.The 2.5 Turbo had well-documented problems with it's oil,and was expecting rather too much IMO from what was basically the original design (2L,2.25L,2.5L).The 2.5 N/A has the advantage of being a five bearing engine as well.Or there is the 2L Perkins Prima (Austin Montego, Sherpa?)either naturally aspirated or turbocharged.I met a bloke who had done the 2.5 conversion into his 11A,and said it was the beez neez.AND as we now know,you can change all the main bearings without removing the crank! That would be my choice,anyway.Fuel consumption is better too. There are *some* drawbacks to oil burners,though,like its a right pest if you happen to run out of fuel.You have to bleed the system to expel air,which is a bit messy.And as for hand cranking......forget it!Also,as no end of lorry drivers told me when I first bought mine,in winter the tank should be kept well topped up with fuel to escape waxing up problems.It works! And,of course,the 11A/111 diesels have hand throttles as well,so you can set your engine speed where you want it to burble along nicely thank you off road. Or I suppose you *could* go Jap??????? Cheers Mike