From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 00:01:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5541GN12716 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:01:16 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f552x8M02963 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f552x8W02960 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09743 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:59:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f552FCY31960 for lro-digest-gone; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:15:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:15:12 -0400 Message-Id: <200106050215.f552FCY31960@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #395 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Monday, June 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 395 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:14:56 -0700 From: "Rich & Lori Williams" Subject: LRO: Frame bushings Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? Thanks again, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 09:51:40 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Frame bushings Yes a press is nice, place frame in press and press out. Lacking a press large enough to fit the rover in, you'll have to cut the outer sleeve and drive it out. Need to cut the sleeve all the way through, BTW, or it will probably just hang in while you mangle the frame. An air chisel with the 'V' shaped cutting bit may drive it out without cutting. Haven't tried it yet but did use an air chizel to drive my last one out after cutting. It came out almost as soon as I touched the trigger. Way Cool!! Lather up the bush and frame puka with marine bearing grease or never seize and reinstall. You'll need to lash up a tool to draw the new bush back into the frame, if your putting stock bushes back in. I use a long bolt, some surplus shackles and a bunch of washers of appropriate size for spacers. Keep cranking on the nut, loosening and adding washers, and cranking, etc. till the bush is back in place. Have heard but not verified that Polubushes are in two pieces and have no outer sleeve so go in and come out way easier. Its not a very rewarding job but doable in about an hour or two per bush. Probably a lot easier and should be somewhat faster with the frame stripped and at a more comfortable working height. Aloha Peter O Kona Coffee Rover Probably doesn't matter if you remove the bushes before or after sandblasting >From: "Rich & Lori Williams" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: LRO: Frame bushings >Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:14:56 -0700 > >Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts >tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is >blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? > >Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? > >Thanks again, > >Rich > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:10:26 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: LRO: Steering Relay Removal >Clear packing tape, put on very thick, seems to resist sandblasting very >very well. Just put a lot on, I suspect duct tape`s somewhat textured >surface gives the sand some purchas, incentive to tear it off... A custom body shop I used once cut windows for chopped roof by sand blasting them. They just used masking tape at the parting line and had at it with the blaster, so I would think that masking tape would work fine. Chris hall ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 16:47:11 -0600 From: "Ross Maylor" Subject: LRO: Re: Tranny swap/rebuild Todd, Recently our club took a tour of the local Spicer shop and found that for relatively little money they would install new u-joints and balance the driveshaft. The balancing made a big difference reducing the vibration in my '58 Healey where the driveshaft is a third the length of the Landrovers'. Haven't done it on my 109SW yet but I am sure it will make a difference at speed...so to speak!! Regards Ross Maylor 109SW of no fixed year. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 22:27:20 -0600 From: "The Stockdales" Subject: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc. I'm awful tired of all of the bitching, wining, and all around complaints. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow. Why doesn't anyone take responsibility for their own safety and the life they lead anymore. Thin the heard, clean the gene pool or take responsibility for your life. To bad for the guy who built his family farm on the Missouri River flood plain behind a homemade levee. His brother built a house on the side of a cliff in Calif (under power lines from the nuke plant). Dad smoked Kents with microlite filters made out of that new miracle fiber asbestos. Pulled his back out trying to lift a 500 lb. box at work, now sits at home talking on his cell phone absorbing microwaves into the skull and drinks cheap lite beer until his kidneys shrivel up. He had a sister who scalded her crotch by spilling a coffee on it. She got a bunch of money in the law suit and took a trip to Europe on TWA flight 800. etc, etc. Hurricane Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:46:16 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger The Stockdales wrote: > Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc. I'm awful tired of all of the > bitching, wining, and all around complaints. Much as I despise political correctness... Maybe you don't want to put yourself in the same corner as Cape PLC (the British company who made hundreds of millions of pounds out of having uneducated poverty stricken folk in the northern Cape dig asbestos out of the ground with no safety equipment, and has now asset-stripped the company so that claims by the survivors and their families can't be paid out). Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:17:28 +0100 From: "John Bridgett" Subject: RE: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger Sorry guys, I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for intruding. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On Behalf Of Paul Oxley Sent: 04 June 2001 06:46 To: lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger The Stockdales wrote: > Asbestosis, Berryliosis, Red Die No.2, etc. I'm awful tired of all of the > bitching, wining, and all around complaints. Much as I despise political correctness... Maybe you don't want to put yourself in the same corner as Cape PLC (the British company who made hundreds of millions of pounds out of having uneducated poverty stricken folk in the northern Cape dig asbestos out of the ground with no safety equipment, and has now asset-stripped the company so that claims by the survivors and their families can't be paid out). Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 03:18:49 EDT From: Eyekelly@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Electrics - --part1_23.c91e7f5.284c9059_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last night, I blew the fuse when I turned on the windscreen wipers so today I took the dashboard off to trace the problem and frightened myself. Its a rat's nest. Wires everywhere and PO's have added many more. Plus, the 30 year old insulation is beginning to look really scary. So the next project is to rewire the entire vehicle. So, any tips from those who've done it? How long did it take? How much pain was involved? The diagram in the Green Bible makes it look so simple............... Thanks in advance, Ian Kelly Los Angeles 1970 Series IIA - --part1_23.c91e7f5.284c9059_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last night, I blew the fuse when I turned on the windscreen wipers so today I
took the dashboard off to trace the problem and frightened myself. Its a
rat's nest. Wires everywhere and PO's have added many more. Plus, the 30 year
old insulation is beginning to look really scary. So the next project is to
rewire the entire vehicle.

So, any tips from those who've done it? How long did it take? How much pain
was involved? The diagram in the Green Bible makes it look so
simple...............

Thanks in advance,

Ian Kelly

Los Angeles

1970 Series IIA - --part1_23.c91e7f5.284c9059_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:54:23 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger John Bridgett wrote: > Sorry guys, > I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for intruding. You're forgiven :-{>} Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 05:58:41 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Electrics Yup - not a big surprise.... First off, have a look at the PO's wiring - what did he add and where and more importantly WHY? THis is all going to have to be re-added properly by hand - preferably in properly colour-coded wire. Were I you (and I'm in this shape with Mr. Churchill) I'd get a new harness, and add the proper wiring alongside that as needed. Rewiring, like everything else, is not a nightmare but is involved. Take it all out paying careful attention to small jumpers and the like that you might need later. Then armed with your new harnesses and a copy of the wiring diagram hook it up one section at a time, coloring in the wires as connected. THis way you have some idea of where to look as you go through the troubleshooting process later. If you want to chat on this off-line I can tell some horror stories... Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:42:37 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion? How about installing 11" 109 Fronts on the back, but put them on backwards so the self servo works in reverse. Reduced rear braking when going forward but improver braking on the leading axle when in reverse. > General consensus seems to be to back your rear shoes way > off or you're just wasting rear brake shoe material ;-) > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 08:38:35 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion? Well, I have...in fact, I installed it just last weekend on my IIA 88. I like it! AB & DAP have been reps for TIC selling the kit as installed only. However, TIC appears now to be willing to ship anywhere...at least that's what's currently implied on their website. TIC also now offers a rear disc kit for Series trucks, based on DiscoII calipers (though IMHO with the front kit you wouldn't really need the rear also). Contact me if you have any questions about the kit. John Tackley RIC >>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably not since you can only buy it through AB, and if they install it. A little too pricy in my book. Gerry Elam wrote: > Anyone done TI Console's disc brake conversion? - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:45:16 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: RE: Asbestos It worked like a dream on my 1995 RR (Rangie, not Rolls) Classic. I used Berol / Turquoise No. 12 Drawing Leads that I keep a supply of for a drafting pencil that I used in college. The leads are 5 inches long, pointed at one end and roughly 1/8" in size. I drilled four 1/8" holes about 3 inches into the surface of the leading edge of every pad on the truck. No squeaking this morning and I suppose as the pads continue to wear, exposing the graphite, no squeaking will ever happen. Thanks >>> Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com 06/01/01 08:29PM >>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:43:38 +0100 From: "Steve Mace" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Asbestos (was tuning by eye) On 31 May 2001, at 10:36, Faure, Marin wrote: >> Actually, the graphite does not do anything to lubricate the lining. The > purpose of the lead "inserts" in the edge of the lining (not the face) is to > dampen the high-frequency vibrations that are the actual source of the squeal. > It works for both pads and shoes. >Presumably under the assumption that a couple of inches of pencil lead is going to alter the mass of the pad/shoe enough to actually alter it's vibration characteristics? I'm not going to dispute your numbers, but the vibration dampening effect is what ROLLS ROYCE said about the technique in a description of it that I read many years ago. I first read about the lead thing in the early 1970s, so the technique has been around at least that long. (The same RR pamphlet I read also described a technique for limo drivers to come to a stop without causing the vehicle to rock back slightly, thus avoiding "disturbing" the occupants in back.) There was an sketch of the lead thing, and the holes were drilled in the edge of the lining on the shoe, NOT in the face of the shoe.) As I recall, the Rolls Royce pamphlet did not describe the technique as a way of overcoming the problems of asbestos-free brake lining, but simply as a way to eliminate brake squeal if you had it. Makes sense, as they were still using asbestos in brakes in the early '70s. Over the years, I've had the technique described to me by a few mechanics, and they all said the same thing- drill the holes in the edge of the lining material parallel and as close to the backing plate as practical. Then insert the lead cores, which effectively break up the vibration patters. The length of the cores should be as long as you can get away with. I use pieces about 3 inches inches long on our Range Rover, and I put in four of them in each pad. The vehicle had a bad squealing problem at low speeds from day one, but I kept putting off doing the lead thing until recently. When I reinstalled the pads, the squeal was gone, and so far it's not come back. As for dampening vibration, if you give a tuning fork a whack, you can almost completely stop the sound by touching it with a just a feather. So I'm not sure mass is the only factor affecting the interruption of high frequencies, which is what brake squeal is. But what I know about physics wouldn't fill a thimble, so I can't make any sort of scientific argument supporting the technique as described by Rolls Royce and the mechanics I've talked to. All I know is that following their process, brake squeal goes away. I would assume that if you drilled holes in the face of the pad or shoe, you'd accomplish the same thing for the same reason. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:13:47 -0400 From: "Lee Jones" Subject: LRO: RE: Graphite in brakes This thread has my mind messed up - back in the 60's and early 70's, on our street cars (and on the race cars too!) we used to put four or five lead pencil inserts in the friction surface of the pad, not on the edge, to cut down on the squeal (and on the race car - a Mini Cooper to cut down on having the pad weld itself to the rotor). Putting the lead in the edge of the pad would seem to me to be totally harmless until the pad wears down to the level of the graphite and then you would have a solid line (or lines) of graphite all across the pad (or shoe) surface. Earlier someone wrote that the graphite would act as a lubricant (which it didn't seem to in any way) if placed in the wear surface of the pad. My understanding was that - at least - disk brakes work mechanically more than as a friction material against the rotor (yes if oil gets in there it WILL degrade the braking effect) and that much of the feeling of brake fade was in gasses that were generated between the pad and rotor when the brakes were very hot. The pads on the race car were mostly made out of sintered iron which still worked good when the brakes were hot but would both boil the brake fluid and would weld themselves to the rotor when the car was stopped. Lee - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On Behalf Of RON WARD Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 8:45 AM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Graphite in brakes It worked like a dream on my 1995 RR (Rangie, not Rolls) Classic. I used Berol / Turquoise No. 12 Drawing Leads that I keep a supply of for a drafting pencil that I used in college. The leads are 5 inches long, pointed at one end and roughly 1/8" in size. I drilled four 1/8" holes about 3 inches into the surface of the leading edge of every pad on the truck. No squeaking this morning and I suppose as the pads continue to wear, exposing the graphite, no squeaking will ever happen. Thanks >>> Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com 06/01/01 08:29PM >>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:43:38 +0100 From: "Steve Mace" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Asbestos (was tuning by eye) On 31 May 2001, at 10:36, Faure, Marin wrote: >> Actually, the graphite does not do anything to lubricate the lining. The > purpose of the lead "inserts" in the edge of the lining (not the face) is to > dampen the high-frequency vibrations that are the actual source of the squeal. > It works for both pads and shoes. >Presumably under the assumption that a couple of inches of pencil lead is going to alter the mass of the pad/shoe enough to actually alter it's vibration characteristics? I'm not going to dispute your numbers, but the vibration dampening effect is what ROLLS ROYCE said about the technique in a description of it that I read many years ago. I first read about the lead thing in the early 1970s, so the technique has been around at least that long. (The same RR pamphlet I read also described a technique for limo drivers to come to a stop without causing the vehicle to rock back slightly, thus avoiding "disturbing" the occupants in back.) There was an sketch of the lead thing, and the holes were drilled in the edge of the lining on the shoe, NOT in the face of the shoe.) As I recall, the Rolls Royce pamphlet did not describe the technique as a way of overcoming the problems of asbestos-free brake lining, but simply as a way to eliminate brake squeal if you had it. Makes sense, as they were still using asbestos in brakes in the early '70s. Over the years, I've had the technique described to me by a few mechanics, and they all said the same thing- drill the holes in the edge of the lining material parallel and as close to the backing plate as practical. Then insert the lead cores, which effectively break up the vibration patters. The length of the cores should be as long as you can get away with. I use pieces about 3 inches inches long on our Range Rover, and I put in four of them in each pad. The vehicle had a bad squealing problem at low speeds from day one, but I kept putting off doing the lead thing until recently. When I reinstalled the pads, the squeal was gone, and so far it's not come back. As for dampening vibration, if you give a tuning fork a whack, you can almost completely stop the sound by touching it with a just a feather. So I'm not sure mass is the only factor affecting the interruption of high frequencies, which is what brake squeal is. But what I know about physics wouldn't fill a thimble, so I can't make any sort of scientific argument supporting the technique as described by Rolls Royce and the mechanics I've talked to. All I know is that following their process, brake squeal goes away. I would assume that if you drilled holes in the face of the pad or shoe, you'd accomplish the same thing for the same reason. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:40:58 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Frame bushings Rich, Got shop AIR? Air hammer? Punch attachment for air hammer? - - Use hacksaw (install blade upside-down, basically, run blade through the bushing, teeth towards handle). This is actually much easier than it sounds, with a fresh new blade. - - Cut through first steel layer only. - - Place air hammer punch into the rubber between the steel layers, right at the cut you just made. - - Hammer the punch through entire length of bushing. The inner steel layer will curl at the cut, releasing pressure on the rubber and outer steel layer and the entire bushing will 'drive' right out with the air hammer/punch. This method has never failed for me. JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? Thanks again, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:46:34 EDT From: Gbrovers@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Weird Salisbury leak (again) In a message dated 5/31/01 1:27:10 PM, jarvis64@juno.com writes: << Where do I find one of these? Not that I've looked, but I'm guessing there ain't one in the SII/IIA green bible, seeing as how Salisburies (is that the plural?) didn't come on 'em. Maybe I'll dig into Mr. Haynes manual and then go see what mid-70s F250s had on them. Headed out to garage now to poke around in my manuals. . . >> bill An exploded diagram of a Salisbury may be in a Slla service manual because Salisbury rear axles actually were offered as an option starting in 1966 or 67 although they were a very rare option particularly in the US. I haven't been following this thread but if you are having a leak at the drive flange, there is an o-ring that goes on the end of the drive flange that provides a seal when you press on the hub cap (provided the hub cap isn't out of round). Your o-ring may be missing. There are no felt seals and the axle doesn't bolt onto the flange, it is held in place with a circlip. Bill Great Basin Rovers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:56:29 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Frame bushings While on the subject of bushings. I'll repeat the warning issued previously. Don't be tempted to burn out the rubber. The fumes are hazardous and exploding rubber particles can be very uncomfortable. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:49:27 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: disc brakes conversion? What about doing this on a normal (not disc-braked) truck? My 109s front brakes seem plenty able to stop me headed forward, but off road on steep hills, I have to MASH on the pedal to keep from going backwards when I stop. It's not the most confidence-inspiring feeling as you gather your wits, look at lines, and play w/ the tranny brake and clutch in preparation for your next run . . . If everyone says this is a good idea, I'll be quite sad about giving away my spare 11" backing plates a few years back . . . An added benefit of this would be that it would make bleeding both the front and rear axle a big ol' PITA. A drawback might be that the "rear circuit" part of the master ain't designed to operate two slaves per wheel . . . bill On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 07:42:37 -0400 Easton Trevor A writes: > How about installing 11" 109 Fronts on the back, but put them on > backwards > so the self servo works in reverse. Reduced rear braking when going > forward > but improver braking on the leading axle when in reverse. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:47:15 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: RE: LRO: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger >Sorry guys, >I thought this list was to do with LAND ROVERS, pardon me for >intruding. Nope. The list is for Land Rover OWNERS ;-) I get your point though. Rover on! Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:50:46 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: RE: LRO: disc brakes conversion? Cool idea Trevor. That might work well. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:55:15 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: Back-ass-ward 109 front brakes... Bill, >An added benefit of this would be that it would make bleeding both the front and rear axle a big ol' PITA. ...Very true... >A drawback might be that the "rear circuit" part of the master ain't designed to operate two slaves per wheel. ...Here's a solution for that...Crown Vic master cylinder, (NAPA Pt. # 4739467, sold as a "Safety Stop" product, @ $35). That's what I run on my 88 (info courtesy of Hank Rutherford) I would also recommend a good flush of the Castrol GT-LMA (alcohol works) and replace with Silicone fluid. Much higher boiling point...you live in CO mountains now, right? This will help reduce the effects of brake fade on long downhills. JT/ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 10:59:25 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: LRO: brakes brakes and more brakes. OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do. Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing the front shoes and cylinders. I took it out for a spin, and the left rear brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments. Last year, the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left. I will be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the problem before I do the fronts? Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. _____ ||===||| | \ _||___|||__|__\_{EE}_ | ____ ____ \ | / \ / \|) [||( () )\_____|( () )[ ] ~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~ www.crossmember.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:37:37 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes. I'd go ahead w/ the fronts. It's likely that you simply just have better rear braking right now with new parts out-back. Do check that you have: - - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.5" WCs in the front; - - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); - - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing plate), are not loose; - - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position; - - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual; - - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm pedal to figure out which line has air in it). Others here will no doubt have more suggestions... Good luck, JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do. Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing the front shoes and cylinders. I took it out for a spin, and the left rear brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments. Last year, the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left. I will be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the problem before I do the fronts? Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:03:26 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: LRO: RE: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes. I know the rears are 1", think the fronts are 1 1/4" that's what they say on the side. They are the wheel cylinder set from AB. Matt - -----Original Message----- From: Tackley, John [mailto:jtackley@dit.state.va.us] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 11:38 AM To: 'lro@works.team.net' Subject: LRO: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes. I'd go ahead w/ the fronts. It's likely that you simply just have better rear braking right now with new parts out-back. Do check that you have: - - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.5" WCs in the front; - - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); - - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing plate), are not loose; - - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position; - - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual; - - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm pedal to figure out which line has air in it). Others here will no doubt have more suggestions... Good luck, JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I just got my rear brakes done, and I still have the fronts to do. Replaced the shoes, cylinders, and rear brake lines, and I will be replacing the front shoes and cylinders. I took it out for a spin, and the left rear brake seems to lock up first, even after several adjustments. Last year, the brakes pulled sharply to the right, now they pull to the left. I will be doing the front brakes this week, is there any reason to diagnose the problem before I do the fronts? Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:13:42 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: RE: RE: brakes brakes and more brakes. Oops, 1.25" is right...sorry for the mis-information Matt! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do check that you have: - - 1" WCs in the rear and the 1.25" WCs in the front; - - that the springs go from leading shoe to post (not shoe to shoe); - - that the steady/pivot posts, and spring posts (both shoe and backing plate), are not loose; - - that you have leading/trailing shoes in the proper pairs and position; - - snail cams are tight and adjusted properly, as per the manual; - - all air is bled from the system (clamp off each line until you have a firm pedal to figure out which line has air in it). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:14:30 -0400 From: "Matthew Wilson" Subject: LRO: source for generator screws? Firstoff, belated thanks to those listmembers that gave me advice on sealing the sph. I now have the thing apart again, but I'm puzzled as to why the seal is a little loose in there. I tried an AB and an RN (genuine) seal, both have the same wobble...I wonder if the housing is deformed somehow...strange. Next question, I rebuilt the generator (Lucas c-40) over the weekend. I cobbled together one that spins freely from the remains of mine and another collection of parts. However, while disassembling mine, I broke those two long screws that go through the generator body and hold the end brackets together. Does anyone have a spare two that they would be willing to part with? Thanks, Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 08:57:52 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Frame bushings I'm puzzling over your description of removing the frame bushings. Your saying cut the small inner sleeve, that the bolt goes through. Then you can drive out the entire bushing, outer sleeve, the one welded to the frame by corrosion, by using a punch tool in the rubber. This sounds a bit too easy, almost blasphemous devil's work. I haven't tried an air chizel on an uncut outer bush but can't see how applying the tool to the rubber would have any effect on outer bush. It would seem the rubber would absorb the blows of the chizel on one hand. On the other, most of my frame bushes haven't had the rubber attached to the inner and/or outer sleeve so the rubber just falls out. Could you try and clear up my incomprehension of your method. I've never been able to get the outer sleeve to budge without cutting all the way through. This has been using hand tools, however. Tried without cutting using an VBFH, bush wouldn't budge and dinged the frame. Once tried to drive out the flange with a bush that I thought was cut all the way through but wasn't. Even though it had been cut 95% of the way through, a small section in the middle wasn't severed. Mangled the frame tube and bush sleeve trying to beat it out. Finally gave up and started over with the saw, which was made way more difficult because of the mangled condition of the sleeve. Had to file burrs out of the frame tube before I could get a new bush in. On my last bush removal, I used an air chizel after sawing the outer sleeve. The cut sleeve came out so fast I was incredulous. Can't wait, nah, that's being disengenuous, let's say on the next one I have to do, I'll try the air chizel on an uncut sleeve to see if it will drive it out. Sure would be a BIG bonus, if it will, as cutting the sleeve is a sweaty PITA. Burning out the rubber is quick, though it may be dirty. If you use the torch, reccomened that its done in a well ventilated area and that you don't sniff the fumes. Try aerosol propellants if you really want to sniff something stupid. Its easy to stay away from the fumes and once the rubber is ignited, its self perpetuating so you can stand well back. An impact wrench made reinstalling the sleeve a quick and easy operation with my make shift installation set up. Ran the nut up on the bolt drawing the bush in quickly. Zipped the nut right off when I had to add more spacers. Lost out on a bit of exercise but cut the reinstallation by at least a third and no bruises or blood. Aloha Peter Ogilvie Kona Coffee Rover 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering from exposure of the dark side. 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally running. 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust >From: "Tackley, John" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: "'lro@works.team.net'" >Subject: LRO: RE: Frame bushings >Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:40:58 -0400 > >Rich, >Got shop AIR? Air hammer? Punch attachment for air hammer? >- Use hacksaw (install blade upside-down, basically, run blade through the >bushing, teeth towards handle). This is actually much easier than it >sounds, with a fresh new blade. >- Cut through first steel layer only. >- Place air hammer punch into the rubber between the steel layers, right at >the cut you just made. >- Hammer the punch through entire length of bushing. The inner steel layer >will curl at the cut, releasing pressure on the rubber and outer steel >layer >and the entire bushing will 'drive' right out with the air hammer/punch. >This method has never failed for me. > >JT/ric > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts >tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is >blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? > >Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? > >Thanks again, > >Rich _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:06:07 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Back-ass-ward 109 front brakes... "Tackley, John" writes: > ...Here's a solution for that...Crown Vic master cylinder, (NAPA Pt. > # > 4739467, sold as a "Safety Stop" product, @ $35). That's what I run > on my 88 > (info courtesy of Hank Rutherford) I know sev. folks who run these on their 88s--is its bore diameter large enough to work the 109 fronts? I already have the regular rover dual-circuit master, but if this thing costs $35 and has a big ol' bore front and back . . . > > I would also recommend a good flush of the Castrol GT-LMA (alcohol > works) > and replace with Silicone fluid. Much higher boiling point...you > live in CO > mountains now, right? This will help reduce the effects of brake > fade on > long downhills. Sadly, the problem ain't boiling fluid. This occurs when attempting steep stuff in 1and 2 low. Try it, fail, stop. Not much reason for fade in a situation like that, I don't think. I, well Dave Gomes really, just re-did all my lines, but b/c I was too lazy to dissassy and rebuild my wheel cylinders (and too cheap to rebuild the master at $55/rebuild kit) I just stuck w/ LMA. bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 21:50:52 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Frame bushings OMC and I am sure others make a ball joint press. This is a heavy duty C-clamp with different sized plates and press fittings. I took a new bushing and was lucky enough to find a piece of metal very close to this diameter. A buddy turned it down a bit in his lathe. Use this to remove and install bushings, works great. With out this addapter, the ball joint press will remove the inner steel and rubber portion in a couple of seconds. Can then use the sharp hacksaw or sawzall method of cutting the outer sleave. Hammer and punch removed these. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:54:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: LRO: Optima battery anyone? Good price Sorry for the cross post, but I thought this would interest both groups. I can get a good deal (I think) on some of the Exide version of the Optima battery. Both the regular one and the deep cycle. Anyone need/want one? They'd be about $90, give or take a couple. If you're interrested let me know. I suggest people close to the Atlanta area as I expect shipping would be prohibitive. If you can wait I expect to be at the ROVA event in Oct. Not to rush, but I need to know by tomorrow afternoon EST. Cheers Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:11:54 -0500 From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" Subject: LRO: Frames, Civilian vs Military Hello the list, I've got a 1967 civilian IIa Pickup truck. Is the 109 military frame identical to the civilian frame? If not, how tough are the modifications to make it fit? Andy Litkowiak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:14:58 -0500 From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" Subject: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? I'm getting conflicting information about the above noted swap. Some are telling me that the 109 Series body, engine and tranny will bolt directly to a Defender 110 chassis with almost no modifications. Others tell me it is a monumental task not worth starting. Who's right? Andy Litkowiak ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #395 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 01:15:57 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f555FvN13826 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 01:15:57 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f554DoB03988 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f554DnW03985 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16647 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 00:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f553uFs01038 for lro-gone; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:56:15 -0400 Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f553uE601031 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:56:14 -0400 Received: from [209.179.252.140] (pool0051.cvx20-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.250.51]) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09828 for ; Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200106050215.f552FCY31960@works.team.net> References: <200106050215.f552FCY31960@works.team.net> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:01:27 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: aaron Subject: LRO: Santana brakes from Canada? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Somebody mentioned a Santana disk brake set up from Can.for $720. Who do you order this from?? Thanks in advance, Aaron 69 2a 88 From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 07:49:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55BnBN14286 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:49:11 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55Al4608176 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55Al3W08173 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:47:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19256 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:47:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55ATpg07407 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:29:51 -0400 Received: from braint.aber.ac.uk (braint.aber.ac.uk [144.124.16.42]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55ATl607390 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:29:47 -0400 Received: from pcdjjb.dbs.aber.ac.uk ([144.124.112.238] helo=daffodil) by braint.aber.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 157E5n-0001yt-00 for lro-digest@works.team.net; Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:29:43 +0100 From: "Andy Woodward" To: lro-digest@works.team.net Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:32:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: LRO: Frame bushings Message-ID: <3B1CC33F.13538.195E67F3@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi \ You'll need to lash up a tool to draw the new bush back into the \frame, if \your putting stock bushes back in. I use a long bolt, some surplus \shackles \and a bunch of washers of appropriate size for spacers. Keep \cranking on \the nut, loosening and adding washers, and cranking, etc. till the \bush is \back in place. Have heard but not verified that Polubushes are in \two \pieces and have no outer sleeve so go in and come out way easier. I've just discovered that I can bread the bead on my motocycle tyre easily and quickly by judicious bashing with a heavy rubber mallet. Previously to this it was an hour odf straining and cursing with a huge C-clamp and a 3 foot prybar. So. Why couldnt you just gently bash hte bushes in with a rubber mallet? From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 09:06:56 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55D6uN14445 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:06:56 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55C4kV09124 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55C4jW09121 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26443 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55Bejw08806 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:40:45 -0400 Received: from mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net (mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net [198.5.241.87]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55Bed608800 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:40:43 -0400 Received: from knlaw.net by mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: [65.203.162.166]) id QQkscc24836 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:40:35 GMT Message-ID: <3B1CC533.4D9A3903@knlaw.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:40:36 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lro-digest@works.team.net" Subject: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 SIII with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of black tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich All Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this has been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If you prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. Kurt Krauss 1973 Series III From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 13:11:44 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55HBhN15116 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:11:43 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55G9bw16182 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55G9aW16178 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20358 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55FiAS13868 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:44:10 -0400 Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55Fi3613854 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:44:03 -0400 Received: from sandygri (orf-max-8-85.pinn.net [216.9.83.85]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id f55FQac15680 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.20010605101634.0068a5e4@pinn.net> X-Sender: rover@pinn.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:47:51 -0400 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" Subject: LRO: Bashing bushings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi >Rich Williams wrote: >Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts >tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is >blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? >Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? Bushings can only be removed destructively. The center tube can usually be driven out and sometimes it comes out rusted to the shackle bolt. I usually drive a thin-bladed, square shank screwdriver between the rubber part and the outer shell and twist the screwdriver to 'walk' it around the rubber piece. Peels up nice... Failing that, they have to be burned out with not a little smoke and a considerable amount of trepidation. (Not reccommended for the faint of heart or short of breath....) The outer shell can be sawn through with a hacksaw blade, or as someone else has said, driven out with a v-pointed air chisel. Take care not to damage the interior diameter too much. You can use a brake cylinder hone to dress it up and remove any rust. Now here is the absolute fastest, easiest, most pain-free way to re-install bushings. I made a special tool by welding an appropriate-sized, 1/2" drive socket to a pointed .401 Parker shank tool. The socket should be ever-so-smaller than the outside diameter of the bushing and the pointed bit keeps it centered. Chuck that bad boy in the air hammer, grease everything up and lay into it. It'll reinstall a bushing in under two seconds. No lie. (I'm getting a patent tomorrow....) As I get older, I find my collection of air tools growing.... Cheers *-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----* | A. P. "Sandy" Grice | | The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | 757-622-7054 (H)423-4898 (FAX)757-622-7056 | *------------------------------------------------------* From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 17:03:03 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55L32N15773 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:03:02 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55K0u823230 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55K0uW23227 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:00:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16883 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:00:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55JAiu17577 for lro-digest-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:10:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:10:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200106051910.f55JAiu17577@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #396 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, June 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 396 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 22:17:37 -0400 From: Nick Danger Subject: LRO: RoverFest, August : CT Convoy? Is anyone from CT going to Roverfest in August? Having only had the rover for less then a year this would be my first event, and also the first drive that was over a hour :-) So if theres a train headed north, I'd like to know if I can get on it! Uhh.. just in case... - -Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:25:32 -0500 From: "Andrew H. Litkowiak" Subject: LRO: Big Sky Rover? Need you input Has anyone out here dealt with Big Sky Rover in Montana? Please share your experiences, good, bad or neutral. Andy Litkowiak ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:17:35 EDT From: WhatsUp129@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? some 110s came with the 2.5L and even 2.25L engines, but all had either the LT77, LT77s, R380, or LT95 gearbox. and they all had the LT230 transfer case. So the only piece of your drivetrain that would "bolt in" to a stock defender 110 chassis in the engine. this engine will also bolt to the 5 spd of that era. my question for you is WHY??? the only thing you would be gaining out of a 110 chassis swap is coil springs, which can be done a lot easier and cheaper using a coil chassis from Designa Chassis. To use a 110 frame, you would also either have to shorten the frame by 1", or fit a defender back body, roof sides, and roof panel. its not worth it, IMO adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:33:59 -0600 From: "Ross Maylor" Subject: LRO: Re: Frames, Civilian vs Military Andy, My 109 chassis is an ex military 1978, or so, Series III. Although originally a pickup I put a '62 SII station wagon body with a 67 SIIa bulkhead on it. If I had left it a truck there would have been no modifications that I could tell. Regards Ross Maylor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 23:44:36 -0400 From: Jeff Berg Subject: Re: LRO: RoverFest, August : CT Convoy? >Is anyone from CT going to Roverfest in August? Having only had the rover for >less then a year this would be my first event, and also the first drive that >was over a hour :-) So if theres a train headed north, I'd like to know if I >can get on it! Uhh.. just in case... > >-Nick I might be going. Depends on work--may leave late on Friday... jeff - -- == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 21:01:27 -0700 From: aaron Subject: LRO: Santana brakes from Canada? Somebody mentioned a Santana disk brake set up from Can.for $720. Who do you order this from?? Thanks in advance, Aaron 69 2a 88 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:50:22 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? from Designa Chassis. To use a 110 frame, you would also either have to shorten the frame by 1", or fit a defender back body, roof sides, and roof panel. I know the wheel base is one inch longer, but is the frame itself exactly 1" longer also? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:10:28 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? The 90 is a 93" wheel base probably to accomodate the longer 5 speed transmission and not require a mini drive shaft, among other reasons. No such need on the 110 so is it really a 110" wheel base. Wouldn't be surprized if the 110 was just a warmed over 109" frame. Aloha Peter >From: "Hope Peter" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? >Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 06:50:22 -1000 > >from Designa Chassis. To use a 110 frame, you would also either have to >shorten the frame by 1", or fit a defender back body, roof sides, and roof >panel. > > >I know the wheel base is one inch longer, but is the frame itself exactly >1" >longer also? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:10:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Robert=20Ries?= Subject: LRO: attracting attention >Yes, a Series Rover seems to attract overt attention from the >Ladies, but >I'm not sure that term accurately describes them. >Aloha >Peter Ogilvie >Kona Coffee Rover Peter, methinks thou dost protest too much. Or maybe yer starting to show your age? (shades of Marin ;>)) ) Any woman who actually wants to ride in B.D. is presumed to be a lady until proven otherwise. And I highly encourage that. ===== Robert D. Ries SSgt, USAF Burwell, England "With friends like these..." ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:32:15 +0100 From: "Andy Woodward" Subject: LRO: Frame bushings \ You'll need to lash up a tool to draw the new bush back into the \frame, if \your putting stock bushes back in. I use a long bolt, some surplus \shackles \and a bunch of washers of appropriate size for spacers. Keep \cranking on \the nut, loosening and adding washers, and cranking, etc. till the \bush is \back in place. Have heard but not verified that Polubushes are in \two \pieces and have no outer sleeve so go in and come out way easier. I've just discovered that I can bread the bead on my motocycle tyre easily and quickly by judicious bashing with a heavy rubber mallet. Previously to this it was an hour odf straining and cursing with a huge C-clamp and a 3 foot prybar. So. Why couldnt you just gently bash hte bushes in with a rubber mallet? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:51:50 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Frame bushings So. Why couldnt you just gently bash hte bushes in with a rubber mallet? Well.....you can - but it doesn't work all that well. Part of the reason that your tyre comes off in response to a good bashing is because there's some stretch and give in the tyre bead. WIth a chassis bushing there is NO (or little) give - it's a steel tube in a steel tube. In that setup it's easiest to give a firm pull to unseat and seat them - it just works better that way. I ended up building a tool for this job from some heavy-walled tubing and a large Acme-thread screw. Lubrication also helps big time - slathering the bushing in anti-seize works well. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:40:36 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" Subject: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 SIII with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of black tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich All Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this has been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If you prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. Kurt Krauss 1973 Series III ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:00:21 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: LRO: So I pull in the parking lot here at work.... and park right next to another 88". Fred Dushin decided to park outside with the peions and now it's the beginnings of a Rover meet! Definitely a good start to the day... Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. _____ ||===||| | \ _||___|||__|__\_{EE}_ | ____ ____ \ | / \ / \|) [||( () )\_____|( () )[ ] ~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~ www.crossmember.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:00:29 -0500 From: "Brian F. Waltman" Subject: LRO: Engine run up Hello All, Well, I finally got the transmission out of the rover last night. After much input, I finally decided to go with the method described in the green bible, so out the top she came. I am now in the process of trying to determine where the waterfall oil leak is coming from. She was leaking oil very badly through the drain hole in the bell housing and between where the bell housing and engine meet. I think it is just the tranny leaking, but it could be the rear main seal. My question is: With the transmission removed, is it OK to start and run the engine long enough to determine if the rear main seal is leaking? I realize that without the tranny on, there is no load on the crank shaft, and that this can cause a problem in some cars. Any suggestions would be appreciated, Brian 1969 Series IIa 88" (minus one transmission,and plus alot of gear oil!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:16:18 -0400 From: "Lee Jones" Subject: LRO: RE: Tires - oops - Tyres Ummm.. Perhaps you could put the white letters on the backside of the wheels? Lee - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On Behalf Of KURT W. KRAUSS Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:41 AM To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 SIII with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of black tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich All Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this has been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If you prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. Kurt Krauss 1973 Series III ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:55:58 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres No need to get the tyres mounted cheezy-sidewalls-out. BFGs, for instance, have white letters on one side, and raised black letters on the other. Last set of BFG MTs I got, I specifically told the tire shop dudes to mount them white side in, and I went out to the bay to drive away to find nice blue letters pointing out all around. I just about fell over. Needless to say, I spent a little more time at the shop that afternoon while they remounted everything. Can't give any size recommendations for 15" rims--are you going w/ them b/c you're doing a concourse resto? If not, I'd say pitch 'em and put 16" on. They're way more functional, not to mention better looking. bill On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:40:36 -0400 "KURT W. KRAUSS" writes: > I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 > SIII > with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about > tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of > black > tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich > All > Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this > has > been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If > you > prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. > Kurt Krauss > 1973 Series III > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:20:29 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres Thats no problem. Just install the tires black wall out. John and Muddy "KURT W. KRAUSS" wrote: > > I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 SIII > with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about > tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of black > tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich All > Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this has > been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If you > prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. > Kurt Krauss > 1973 Series III ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:22:24 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Engine run up Start it up but remember to secure the back of the engine or the fan might hit the rad. John and Muddy "Brian F. Waltman" wrote: > > Hello All, > > Well, I finally got the transmission out of the rover last night. After > much input, I finally decided to go with the method described in the green > bible, so out the top she came. > > I am now in the process of trying to determine where the waterfall oil leak > is coming from. She was leaking oil very badly through the drain hole in > the bell housing and between where the bell housing and engine meet. I > think it is just the tranny leaking, but it could be the rear main seal. My > question is: With the transmission removed, is it OK to start and run the > engine long enough to determine if the rear main seal is leaking? I realize > that without the tranny on, there is no load on the crank shaft, and that > this can cause a problem in some cars. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated, > > Brian > 1969 Series IIa 88" (minus one transmission,and plus alot of gear oil!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:28:42 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: So I pull in the parking lot here at work.... >and park right next to another 88". Fred Dushin decided to park outside >with the peions and now it's the beginnings of a Rover meet! Matt, don't tempt me to run down at lunch in Miss Jessica - she's right here outside my window.... aj"Party at Matt's Place!"r ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:31:02 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Engine run up As long as the flywheel is there the engine can be safely run at idle. Just make sure that the back of the engine is blocked up to the right angle to prevent the fan digging into the radiator. Dumb question - did you smell the oil coming out the drain? Did it smell like 90-weight or engine oil? THis could tell you right off who's leaking - though if you have stripped bolts in the throwout bearing housing it's a good bet it's leaking from that gasket. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:30:34 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: RE: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres If you are looking for a good tire to go offroading with, and you don't mind a little extremem looks, you should take a gander at the Super Swamper Trxus tyres. I got a set for my 15" Xterra rims, in 31x10.5x15 for $106 a piece. They are a brand new tread design and blend a bit of the Goodyear MTR ($160ish) mith a good old fashioned mud terrain, and then add siping, and top it all off with a hellacious sidewall tread. I used them last weekend at 16-12lbs of pressure in the Pennsylvania rocks and coal hills of Shamokin and I couldn't stop them. and no worries of white walls, they don't make whitewalls. I got them from www.tyres.com and have been very pleased. They are not for the concourse restoration, but I bet they are quieter than a lot of the tores out there. They just announced a bunch of new sizes at www.intercotire.com Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. _____ ||===||| | \ _||___|||__|__\_{EE}_ | ____ ____ \ | / \ / \|) [||( () )\_____|( () )[ ] ~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~ www.crossmember.com - -----Original Message----- From: William J. Rice [mailto:jarvis64@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:56 AM To: lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres No need to get the tyres mounted cheezy-sidewalls-out. BFGs, for instance, have white letters on one side, and raised black letters on the other. Last set of BFG MTs I got, I specifically told the tire shop dudes to mount them white side in, and I went out to the bay to drive away to find nice blue letters pointing out all around. I just about fell over. Needless to say, I spent a little more time at the shop that afternoon while they remounted everything. Can't give any size recommendations for 15" rims--are you going w/ them b/c you're doing a concourse resto? If not, I'd say pitch 'em and put 16" on. They're way more functional, not to mention better looking. bill On Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:40:36 -0400 "KURT W. KRAUSS" writes: > I am going to replace the non matching set of rubber on my NAS 1973 > SIII > with original 15 in. wheels. With all the hoopla these days about > tires, any recommendations? I would like the original look of > black > tires rather than the replacements in front that say "BF Goodrich > All > Terrain" in white - a bit too Ford Exploder for me. I'm sure this > has > been the subject of many threads and please accept my apologies. If > you > prefer, contact me off the list. Thanks. > Kurt Krauss > 1973 Series III > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:33:59 -0400 From: Jeff Berg Subject: Re: LRO: So I pull in the parking lot here at work.... >Matt, don't tempt me to run down at lunch in Miss Jessica - she's right >here outside my window.... Hmmmm... I really don't have anything firm until sailing tonight at 5:30... > > aj"Party at Matt's Place!"r I'll bring the hypoid! jab ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:02:20 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Peter O. has doubts... Peter,Peter,Peter, Perhaps it's due to my long-standing contractual relationship with the Devil, (...and please, in the future, do Capitalize references to Him...if you don't it really pisses him off...there, you are forewarned!) but the method I described has always worked for me. Then again, my semi-retired mind may have it wrong...perhaps it was "cut the outer steel sleeve", but alas... no, I said it right the first time, (actually I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken), cut the inner sleeve through to the rubber and then apply the air chisel to the bushing at the cut...angled slightly toward the frame...as the round-punch chisel-point slides through the cut, the sleeve curls inward, pulling away from the rubber, outer sleeve and frame...at some point part way through, the vibration and pressure of the air chisel overcomes the adhesive forces of time & corrosion, and the outer sleeve is released from the frame. (Of course, should my method as described above fail you, then I suggest you carefully cut the remaining outer sleeve also, being careful not to cut the frame, and then simply proceed with the same tools and methodology.) I believe I have some recently removed bushings I can snap pics of which will prove my point. Honest, trust me (...which we all know is Yiddish for "F-U"), it works. ;-> JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm puzzling over your description of removing the frame bushings. Your saying cut the small inner sleeve, that the bolt goes through. Then you can drive out the entire bushing, outer sleeve, the one welded to the frame by corrosion, by using a punch tool in the rubber. This sounds a bit too easy, almost blasphemous devil's work. I haven't tried an air chizel on an uncut outer bush but can't see how applying the tool to the rubber would have any effect on outer bush. It would seem the rubber would absorb the blows of the chizel on one hand. On the other, most of my frame bushes haven't had the rubber attached to the inner and/or outer sleeve so the rubber just falls out. Could you try and clear up my incomprehension of your method. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 07:47:46 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: LRO: help needed--off topic I bought a '67 Mercedes 250SE sedan (for about half what my new chassis cost!) to drive around while the frameover was in progress. The MB list I'm on has been most unhelpful so I thought I'd turn to you guys and your general wizardry with things automotive. Fuel pump recently died on it (bosch mechanical fuel injection--petrol--with an electric pump near the tank). Replacement: $400 Obviously I'm loathe to put about 1/3 of what I paid for the thing into a new fuel pump. My question is this: can I buy a generic fuel pump? I've been told it'll need to generate 22 psi. I believe this is about what most fuel-injected cars require and so most generic pups should generate it, but I'm not sure. Would there be special issues w/ the mechanical injection that would require me to put a pressure regulator in the line? Anyone want to buy a very cool old mercedes cheap? bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:21:11 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: help needed--off topic Bill, if the damn thing has a fuel pressure regulator I can't see it mattering a rat's arse who makes the pump. For example, how many RRs are running around withe Chevy fuel pumps at 1/4 the price? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:34:05 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: RE: LRO: Back-ass-ward 109 front brakes... bill, I believe the bore is large enough, but I say that without any data to back up the statement...(other than the larger pipe outlet sizes), but it seems logical to me that it would be so. The Ford Crowne Vic was a large heavy vehicle after all. And it also seems appropriate to now consider a Ford part acceptable on a Land Rover product. While the Crowne Vic MC ("CV") is a bolt in replacement for the original Girling dual circuit CB, some additional work is needed. First, the pushrod needs to be extended about 7/8ths inch...a simple aluminum insert can be used, or as I did, cut 7/8" off the end of the CB pushrod and weld it to the Crowne Vic's pushrod, carefully grinding the weld back to proper size. Also, the "CV" inlets are of 2 different sizes and are on the opposite side (engine side for a LHD truck). Napa can sell you the 6" pipe&adapters to take the inlet sizes down to 3/16". You can then just reform the original lines, or cut,shorten and re-flare the original pipes using the original ends, and a 3/16" union fitting to join them. The Crowne Vic MC has the bail-lock style top cover with the expanding gasket/seal common on US made MCs. The front fluid chamber is twice the volume of the rear chamber (and I presume this is so to allow for more rapid wear for the front brake shoe linings or pads, thus the need for a larger volume of brake fluid. The front pipe outlet is a larger size (5/16")than the rear outlet(1/4"). Though I adapted both down to 3/16" pipe and fittings, you could retain the larger pipe and fitting size all the way to the front junction, but I don't see the need or benefit on an 88. The "CV" is quite a bit larger MC than the CB and thus it occupies a larger amount of under-bonnet real estate, but it posed no clearance problems on my 88, even though equipped with an APB SU/manifold setup, similar to ACR's. If your CB is in good nick, keep it, but if you need a replacement, the "CV" is a reasonable and inexpensive replacement, IMHO. JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know sev. folks who run these on their 88s--is its bore diameter large enough to work the 109 fronts? I already have the regular rover dual-circuit master, but if this thing costs $35 and has a big ol' bore front and back . . . bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:50:44 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Optima battery anyone? Good price Tom, I bought the genuine, original Optima Yellow top at a recent LR rally (Old North State's Uwharrie Safari) for $89 from 4X4 Connection, obviously a great price which also avoided shipping charges. We are attempting to round up vendors for ROAV's Mid Atlantic Rally October 5-7 and hopefully 4X4 Connection will be one of them...good folks. As you are probably aware, Optima has licensed their spiral wound battery cell technology to Excide, Champion and others. Exide is also handling all warranty clains for Optima products, so claims service nationwide is easy to find. If your battery need can wait, check with Tim Nichols at 4X4Connection (4X4Connection.com) and check his price. Tell him ROAV referred you. I'm sure with a bit of encouragement, he will bring his large trailer full of goodies to the MAR (along with your battery), and you can aviod shipping charges and enjoy rally pricing on other large hard-to-ship items too. JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ry anyone? Good price Sorry for the cross post, but I thought this would interest both groups. I can get a good deal (I think) on some of the Exide version of the Optima battery. Both the regular one and the deep cycle. Anyone need/want one? They'd be about $90, give or take a couple. If you're interrested let me know. I suggest people close to the Atlanta area as I expect shipping would be prohibitive. If you can wait I expect to be at the ROVA event in Oct. Not to rush, but I need to know by tomorrow afternoon EST. Cheers Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:03:01 -0400 From: Perrone Ford Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Optima battery anyone? Good price John,

   Please note that Exide does not license Optima technology.  They own it.  They purchased GHB a year or two ago and GHB was the parent of Optima Technologies.  Exide had been working on their own gel battery independently of  GHBs work (I own one) but decided to purchase the technology from GHB outright.

- -Perrone

Tackley, John wrote:
Tom, 
I bought the genuine, original Optima Yellow top at a recent LR rally (Old
North State's Uwharrie Safari) for $89 from 4X4 Connection, obviously a
great price which also avoided shipping charges.  We are attempting to round
up vendors for ROAV's  Mid Atlantic Rally October 5-7 and hopefully 4X4
Connection will be one of them...good folks.
As you are probably aware, Optima has licensed their spiral wound battery
cell technology to Excide, Champion and others.  Exide is also handling all
warranty clains for Optima products, so claims service nationwide is easy to
find.
If your battery need can wait, check with Tim Nichols at 4X4Connection
(4X4Connection.com) and check his price.  Tell him ROAV referred you.  I'm
sure with a bit of encouragement, he will bring his large trailer full of
goodies to the MAR (along with your battery), and you can !
aviod shipping
charges and enjoy

------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:14:22 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: RE: LRO: RE: Optima battery anyone? Good price This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EDD2.33173D50 Content-Type: text/plain Duly noted, thanks Perrone... JT/ric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please note that Exide does not license Optima technology. They own it. - -Perrone - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EDD2.33173D50 Content-Type: text/html
Duly noted, thanks Perrone...
 
JT/ric

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Please note that Exide does not license Optima technology.  They own it.  
-Perrone
 
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0EDD2.33173D50-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:47:51 -0400 From: "A. P. (Sandy) Grice" Subject: LRO: Bashing bushings >Rich Williams wrote: >Last but not least, I have yet to remove the frame bushings. My instincts >tell me that they are better off left in situ until AFTER the frame is >blasted then replace with new bushings. Thoughts anyone? >Are there any tricks to removing these stubborn things? Hydralic press? Bushings can only be removed destructively. The center tube can usually be driven out and sometimes it comes out rusted to the shackle bolt. I usually drive a thin-bladed, square shank screwdriver between the rubber part and the outer shell and twist the screwdriver to 'walk' it around the rubber piece. Peels up nice... Failing that, they have to be burned out with not a little smoke and a considerable amount of trepidation. (Not reccommended for the faint of heart or short of breath....) The outer shell can be sawn through with a hacksaw blade, or as someone else has said, driven out with a v-pointed air chisel. Take care not to damage the interior diameter too much. You can use a brake cylinder hone to dress it up and remove any rust. Now here is the absolute fastest, easiest, most pain-free way to re-install bushings. I made a special tool by welding an appropriate-sized, 1/2" drive socket to a pointed .401 Parker shank tool. The socket should be ever-so-smaller than the outside diameter of the bushing and the pointed bit keeps it centered. Chuck that bad boy in the air hammer, grease everything up and lay into it. It'll reinstall a bushing in under two seconds. No lie. (I'm getting a patent tomorrow....) As I get older, I find my collection of air tools growing.... Cheers *-----"jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary"----* | A. P. "Sandy" Grice | | The Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | 757-622-7054 (H)423-4898 (FAX)757-622-7056 | *------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:44:10 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? - --- Peter Ogilvie wrote: > such need on the 110 so is it really a 110" wheel base. Wouldn't be > surprized if the 110 was just a warmed over 109" frame. 110 body parts will physically fit onto a 109 frmae and vice versa. which of the mounting points actually coincide is a different story. my guess is that some do and some don't. you'll need a 110 bulkhead, floors, tunnel and seat box or you'll need to modify your series ones. the series fornt clip likely will be a struggle to, the severity of which dpeends on alot of factors. i guess the big question is why... ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:53:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: LRO: Optima battery anyone? Good price Here's a review for those not famialr with the Exide version of the battery http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/exide_orbital/ Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:58:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Optima battery anyone? Good price On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:50:44 -0400, Tackley, John wrote: >I bought the genuine, original Optima Yellow top at a recent LR rally (Old >North State's Uwharrie Safari) for $89 from 4X4 Connection, obviously a >great price which also avoided shipping charges. We are attempting to round >up vendors for ROAV's Mid Atlantic Rally October 5-7 and hopefully 4X4 >Connection will be one of them...good folks. snip You may want to check into an Exide dealer coming. Looking at the two batteries, at least the deep cycle seems nicer in the Exide version, 4 top posts plus two side posts. The regular one, equiv to the Optima red top, has two top and two side posts. I've never done a side by side comparison, just commenting on external features. Cheers Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:46:20 EDT From: WhatsUp129@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? i meant wheelbase. sorry about that. email marsland or designa chassis. they can answer that better than i can. adam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:48:01 EDT From: WhatsUp129@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? the 90 is a 93" (actually 92.9") because of "on road handling problems" with the new suspension in a 90" wheelbase vehicle. supposedly, 2.9" makes all the difference in road handling when you are dealing with a small wheelbase. this is what i have read in several rover magazines. adam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:51:47 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Series IIa on a Defender chassis? >a coil chassis from Designa Chassis. To use a 110 frame, you would >also >either have to shorten the frame by 1", or fit a defender back >body, roof >sides, and roof panel. No, AFAIK the only difference is in wheelbase, not length of the truck. I think the frames are the same length. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:53:08 EDT From: WhatsUp129@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres the BFGs are avalable in black lettering as well. what size would you be looking for? IMO, i woulds tick with the 16" rims. better selection of sizes to suit a series in 16". adam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:54:19 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Santana brakes from Canada? >Somebody mentioned a Santana disk brake set up from Can.for $720. >Who do you order this from?? >Thanks in advance, >Aaron >69 2a 88 No one is selling them in Canada. It's just that they'll ship it to us 'cause they're not worried about getting sued by us. You still have to order from TI Console. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:58:51 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Frame bushings >So. Why couldnt you just gently bash hte bushes in with a rubber >mallet? > > Asked the man who's obviously never fought with frame bushings ;-) Niall Forbes-Who has and never wants to again (can you say polybush next time?)!! 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:04:46 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres Unless you're REALLY keen on the originality thing and want to go with bias ply tires, I'd go with Michelin LTX for road use or BFG All-Terrain if you plan on doing any offroading. Just specify white lettering "in" when you get the tires mounted. Make sure you mention it several times or they will screw up. You'll also have to explain to the technician why you wouldn't want big white lettering on the sidewalls. He still won't understand though ;-) Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:09:36 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres >other. Last set of BFG MTs I got, I specifically told the tire shop >dudes to mount them white side in, and I went out to the bay to drive >away to find nice blue letters pointing out all around. I just about >fell over. Needless to say, I spent a little more time at the shop that >afternoon while they remounted everything. Can't give any size They ALWAYS do that. And they're never pleased when you show them that "White in" is written right on their work order (after you told the guy at the desk ten times ;-). Morons. >recommendations for 15" rims--are you going w/ them b/c you're doing a >concourse resto? If not, I'd say pitch 'em and put 16" on. They're way >more functional, not to mention better looking. There's no need at all to switch rim sizes. Just get a set of 33x9.5R15 tires. They're slightly larger than 235/85/16 but not significantly so and they should work just as well. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #396 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 17:49:59 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55LnwN15951 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:49:58 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55Klq224714 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55KlpW24711 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27717 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55JTG218171 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:16 -0400 Received: from ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail2.lucent.com [192.11.222.163]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55JTE618162 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:14 -0400 Received: from ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f55JTAd00666 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wink.ho.lucent.com (h135-17-38-3.lucent.com [135.17.38.3]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id f55JTAm00654 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wink.ho.lucent.com (8.9.3+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id PAA27282; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com by wink.ho.lucent.com (8.9.3+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id PAA27277; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B1D32B4.BF594624@lucent.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:27:48 -0400 From: jan Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lr-list , rr-list Subject: LRO: parts FS and parts wanted Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi 1. I have a low-miles LT230 X-fer case FS (I thought I was loosing my LT95 and was going to go to a 5-speed). 2. Anybody got any leads on a good deal on a 110 chassis or frame? Pref. RHD, pref in US NE. TIA Jan in NJ From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 17:57:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55LvQN15972 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:57:26 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f55KtKH24930 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f55KtJW24927 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29519 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f55KhYd19875 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:43:34 -0400 Received: from mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net (mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net [198.5.241.87]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f55KhU619871 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:43:30 -0400 Received: from knlaw.net by mr2.ash.ops.us.uu.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: [65.203.162.166]) id QQksdm07282 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:43:22 GMT Message-ID: <3B1D4466.1C10A70E@knlaw.net> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:43:18 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lro-digest@works.team.net" Subject: LRO: Tires - oops - Tyres Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi So is it the consensus that I leave the two BF Goodrich ATs on, turn them around to white lettering is on inside, switch 'em to the back (so they are turning the same direction as originally mounted) but turn them around and order three more? While I crave originality, I also like to be practical and save some bucks in the meantime. Kurt Krauss 1973 NAS SIII -- ==== Sender: Kurt W. Krauss Knox Naughton, P.C. 299 Cherry Hill Road Parsipanny, New Jersey 07054 Telephone: (973) 335-3900 Fax: (973) 335-9577 Email: kwkrauss@knlaw.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this e-mail message, together with any attachments hereto, is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the addressee[s] named above. The message and the attachments are or may be an attorney-client or other privileged or protected communication. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or have not been authorized to receive it for the intended recipient, you have received this message in error. You are not to read, review, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this message, any attachments thereto, or their contents. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail message or call (973) 335-3900, and delete the original message. Thank you for your cooperation. From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Jun 5 22:48:03 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f562m3N16732 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:48:03 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f561jvo00058 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f561juW00055 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15938 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f561Uce22826 for lro-gone; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:30:38 -0400 Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f561Ua622821 for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:30:36 -0400 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely.concentric.net [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id VAA18401; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:30:27 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from [192.168.1.17] (da003d4833.sjc-ca.osd.concentric.net [208.176.184.230]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id VAA20570; Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:30:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: mccauley@shell5.ba.best.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200106031912.f53JCZ809298@works.team.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:17:15 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: Tony McCauley Subject: LRO: Re: disk brakes conversion Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi >Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:35:39 -0700 >From: "Gerry Elam" >Subject: LRO: disc brakes conversion? >Anyone done TI Console's disc brake conversion? Sometime less than a year ago, someone on this list asked if anyone was interested in a disk brake conversion for series trucks. I believe he was in Canada, and that he was talking about making the necessary bits to allow the conversion using Ford truck parts. Of course I've lost his name. Was this all a dream, or is this someones project that is still alive? Tony McCauley '71 IIA (origional owner)