From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 01:31:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F5VaN22826 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:31:36 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F4ShS27662 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F4SgW27659 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07870 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F41WP02645 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:01:32 -0400 Received: from kabru.pinn.net (kabru.pinn.net [198.252.201.11]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F41Q602640 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:01:26 -0400 Received: from oemcomputer (orf-max-1-7.pinn.net [216.9.73.135]) by kabru.pinn.net (8.11.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id f4F40GZ01423 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:00:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.20010514234743.0068e7e4@pinn.net> X-Sender: rover@pinn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:00:08 -0500 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: Zenith fix Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi "Ross Maylor" >I sent this message previously and got no response so either you guys are >dead or nobody gives a rats arse. >Installed new Zenith 361v carb to replace old one that was worn and leaking >gas past the O ring seal into the engine resulting in rough-rich running and >no idle no matter how much adjustments were made. The new carb is better but >suffers from the same problem. A thicker O ring helped only slightly. I read >on a LR web site a brief mention of glass plate grinding that may offer help >but no details of this were provided. Can any one expand on this? The lazy buggers at Zenith/Solex never bothered to anneal their carbs, so they can warp the first time they get good an hot.... The first thing it to do is anneal the bloody thing: disassemble it completely, and put the top cover and bottom half in a 400 F degree oven overnight. The next day, reduce the temp by 50/hour 'til at room temperature. Then glass plate grind it. Place some 200 to 400 grit carborundum paper on a plate of glass. (Has to be absolutely flat....) Add a drop of oil. Swirl the carb halves on the paper...you'll soon see where the high/low spots are. Take care to remove equal amounts from both halves. When both flanges are equally shiny, reassemble with a new o-ring. Cheers *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----* | | | A. P. "Sandy" Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | (757)423-4898 (757)622-7054 FAX (757)622-7056 | | | *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---* From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 03:36:02 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F7a2N22930 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 03:36:02 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F6X8J29842 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F6X8W29839 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17665 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F6GSi03509 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:28 -0400 Received: from mailgate0.sover.net (mailgate0.sover.net [209.198.87.43]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F6GO603504 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:24 -0400 Received: from dad (arc7a39.bf.sover.net [209.198.117.168]) by mailgate0.sover.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4F6GKj07252 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Richard L. Ziegler" To: Subject: LRO: Distributors pollution vs. non-pollution control Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:20 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200105150148.f4F1mIv01199@works.team.net> Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Hope Peter notes that he knows of some late IIa and III L/Rs that do not have retard type distributors on them. Yup! Even my '74 series III has the advance type distributor on it. Of course it was not imported that way (and neither were the ones he mentions) as I wound up replacing the original retard type distributor with the advance type for the previous owner of what is now my '74 L/R. You have to remember that the first things that deteriorated on the L/Rs were the pollution control bits and pieces and British Leyland did not resupply them so we would convert the engines to be like the older ones by taking off the pollution control equipment as the items wore out. The advance type distributor fits in the same place as the retard type distributor so once you had to replace the Zenith pollution control carb with one that was not pollution control you might as well change the distributor to the advance type and set the timing specs to those of the L/Rs that were running around in the rest of the world (the same specs that were used on earlier NADA L/Rs). In '68 for NADA (North American Dollar Area) the only thing that was put on to achieve pollution control was a PCV valve. In '69 they changed the carb to the Zenith pollution control type with the requisite retard distributor and they also added a front exhaust pipe that incorporated an exhaust gas recirculation device that plugged into the base area of the carb (these bits being the very first items to deteriorate and BL had no exact replacements for them). In addition they sealed the gas tank system and added the charcoal filter for gasoline fumes, which were then piped to the air intake horn. This system was then used on the Series III L/Rs which we first saw in the USA in the 2nd half of 1972. Needless to say, when British Leyland stopped importing L/Rs to NADA in 1974 they also quit importing parts for them. Note to TeriAnn: It is not the body seals that are being replaced it is the rubber pieces that are between the chassis and the rear box that act as cushions there. Rich Ziegler, Series L/R mechanic & owner since '63 From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 06:08:30 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FA8TN23403 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 06:08:29 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F95XB01739 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F95WW01736 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29207 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:05:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F8qaK05825 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:36 -0400 Received: from mail4.halcyon.com (mail4.halcyon.com [206.63.63.62]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F8qG605794 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:16 -0400 Received: from [206.63.38.36] (blv-tnt0-1-ip36.nwnexus.net [206.63.38.36]) by mail4.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26106; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:52:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: faurecm@mail.halcyon.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:47:37 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil Cc: SHARDING@SCHULTE-LAW.COM Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:51:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil >I recently pulled and refurbished the intermediate floor in my 109SW and found some semi-serious corrosion at the extreme outboard ends of the rearmost support flange for this floor panel. The floor panel is held in place by large screws which screw into steel clips attached to the support flange. The area around the hole where the clip is located on the flange is heavily corroded/nonexistent. Have been on vacation, so only read your post today. You may have already come up with solutions but: You could try welding or screwing in patches to cover the missing or weak parts of the support flange, which you could then redrill for the steel clips. >I want to stay away from steel fasteners in this location which I guess is susceptible to corrosion because of mud/moisture from the rear wheel, or the lack of grease/oil thrown in the area (no similar extent corrosion on the front intermediate floor support flange). I wouldn't worry too much about using steel fasteners. I've owned my SIII for twenty-eight years, and I've not had any serious rust problems with the fasteners the factory used, despite their being the cheapest grade crap that the company could buy at the time. It's STAINLESS steel fasteners I'd advise you to stay away from. Coating the steel fasteners you put in with LPS-3 (not -1 or -2) will help ward off rust, and there are other products you can use for this purpose, too. I use LPS-3 once a year on the fasteners and springs on our boat trailer, and it's been pretty much rust-free for over 15 years despite regular dippings in salt water. >I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and the frame mounting tabs? Big waste of time unless you can figure out how to insulate the fastener itself from the metal it's holding together. As I explained in another post, any conductive connection between two pieces of dissimilar metals carries the potential for electrolysis and its associated corrosion. So you not only have to insulate the parts themselves from each other, but the barrel, head, and threads of all the fasteners as well. The crummy steel used in Series Land Rovers, the cheap fasteners, the tinny washers, and the aluminum alloy skin are not all that far apart on the Galvanic chart. So the potential for electrolysis on the "stock" components of a Series is not all that great. Where you could get into trouble is if you start using stainless steel on the vehicle, particularly for fasteners that are going to be in conductive contact with the aluminum alloy skin. Your biggest problem will be rust, depending on how you use your vehicle and the environment where you live. Priming and painting installed fasteners and/or coating them with LPS-3 or some other adhesive protectant is your best defense against rust. Makng sure there are drain holes in the bottoms of door structures and so forth helps, too. As I recall, you live in Oregon. I don't believe they use salt on the roads down there, and unless you drive a lot on the beaches, I don't think a humid, salt-air environment is going to be a factor for you. So giving the new steel fasteners you install in your floor a good painting and/or coating of LPS-3, etc. should protect your repair for many, many years. And if you do what I do, and put off replacing a leaking front crank seal for decades, the oil blown back under the vehicle at speed will prevent rust from forming on ANYTHING, even if you live in a hot, humid, salty environment out in the middle of the Pacific. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 06:10:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FAAAN23423 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 06:10:10 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F97AB01755 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F97AW01752 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29280 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F8qWU05808 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:32 -0400 Received: from mail4.halcyon.com (mail4.halcyon.com [206.63.63.62]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F8q8605778 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:09 -0400 Received: from [206.63.38.36] (blv-tnt0-1-ip36.nwnexus.net [206.63.38.36]) by mail4.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26093; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:52:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: faurecm@mail.halcyon.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:35:14 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: Stalling/Rough idling SIII Cc: kwkrauss@knlaw.net Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:39:56 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" Subject: LRO: Stalling/Rough idling SIII >When it starts, it puts out a white puff of smoke. This always happens, when starting cold or warm. It did this before the new head gasket was installed. Just got back from vacation and read this, so you probably already have a bunch of helpful answers. As I'm sure you know, white smoke generally indicates coolant getting into the cylinders, usually via a failed head gasket or cracked block. However, this usually continues the whole time the engine is running. The only reason I can think of that you would have only a brief coolant leak with its associated white smoke is if the leak is very tiny, and as the cylinder heats up, the crack closes. A bit of a stretch this, but possible. I operated a Caterpillar road grader on a ranch in the Rockies back in the mid-1960s. It was a diesel, but it was started on gasoline. You'd run the thing on gas until a certain head temperature was reached, at which point you switched it over to diesel. I recall that for the first several minutes after it was switched over, the exhaust was pure white. Then it gradually turned dark gray and then pretty much went away altogether. I don't know what caused the exhaust to run white at first (this was normal), but perhaps there's something there that could relate to what your engine is doing. Of course, it is normal for a gasoline engine to emit white "smoke" when first started, particularly on colder mornings. This is steam, and gradually fades away as the exhaust system warms up. But it doesn't sound like this is what you're seeing. It is VERY normal for a Series engine, even when they were brand new, to start with a puff, sometimes a BIG puff, of blue smoke. This is because the seals around the valves are basically worthless even when new, and with the engine's sloppy tolerances, oil easily seeps down the valve stems and pools on the pistons. When you start up, all this oil burns away with the blue cloud most Series drivers are familiar with. It should go away after a few seconds. If there is coolant getting into the oil that seeps down into the cylinders after the engine is switched off, I suppose it's possible the startup puff could be white, not blue. A reliable and simple way to judge if your engine is running right is to look at the inside of the exhaust pipe after a normal drive. Not a short drive, but one in which the engine runs at normal operating temperature and rpms for some time after the choke has been pushed off. After a "normal" drive, the inside of the pipe should be light gray or brown. If it is dark gray or black, you've got a problem, usually a mis-adjusted mixture, but possibly also weak ignition, bad valve(s), etc. >Also it is now idling idling roughly and sometimes stalls at idle. It seems to "pop-pop-pop" like an old 2 cycle Saab, but does not backfire, when going down hills in gear. It doesn't burn oil. If you had a Zenith carburetor, I'd guess that you were suffereing from the infamous Zenith Warp, which causes the engine to lug down and "chug" unevenly at idle, sometimes to the point of stalling, whenever the vehicle sitting level or pointing uphill (the warp is not a problem if the vehicle is pointing downhill). But you don't have a Zenith, and I don't know anything about the care and feeding of Solex carbs. "Pop-pop-pop" is hard to diagnose via e-mail. If it's a spitting-sounding "pop-pop-pop," this could indicate a burned exhaust valve or two. A quick-and-dirty way to check for that is to extend a piece of paper over the end of the exhaust pipe. The exhaust will push the paper away. However, if you have a bad exhaust valve, the paper will be momentarily sucked onto the end of the pipe when the cylinder with the bad valve goes through its intake cycle. Of course, if you have a manifold pressure gauge installed (this and a tach being the only two instruments worth having in a Series along with the pressure and temp gauges), it will show you if you've got a bad valve clear as day. But it's been my experience that a burned valve does not cause the engine to backfire against compression, or do anything else out of the ordinary other than the spitting sound of the exhaust at idle, and of course, degraded performance. Finally, if a couple of spark plug wires are switched round, this could cause the uneven running you are experiencing. Depending on how the wires are switched, the engine may run reasonably well, or it may run horribly. Also, if the points are mis-adjusted or worn beyond limits, this could cause uneven firing. So I'd suggest first making sure that the plugs are connected to the distributor in the correct order and that the points are in good shape and gapped properly before going on to more potentially discouraging things like looking for burned valves. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 06:13:39 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FADdN23440 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 06:13:39 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F9Akm01794 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F9AjW01791 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29488 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F8qMl05802 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:22 -0400 Received: from mail4.halcyon.com (mail4.halcyon.com [206.63.63.62]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F8qB605783 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:11 -0400 Received: from [206.63.38.36] (blv-tnt0-1-ip36.nwnexus.net [206.63.38.36]) by mail4.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26098; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:52:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: faurecm@mail.halcyon.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:46:46 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes Cc: konacoffee2@hotmail.com Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:20:44 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes >I haven't had a tire shop give me any trouble about mounting 235/85/16's >on the 5.5" rims. Costco did refuse to mount the tires with tubes, >however. I have always run tubes in the bias-ply tires I have run for the past twenty-eight years, even the tubeless versions. However, I did not find out until recently that if you want to put tubes inside a RADIAL tire (which you pretty much have to do it you want a tubeless radial tire to remain reliably mounted on an old Series Land Rover wheel) you HAVE to use a special radial tube. They are not all that cheap, by the way. According to the local expert tire shops I've talked to in the process of deciding what new tires to put on my SIII, putting a non-radial ("normal") tube into a radial tire will potentially cause BIG problems. Mainly, the "normal" tube will eventually unseat the radial tire from the rim, and Bad Things will then happen to you as you motor down the freeway. This may be why Costco would not mount your tires with tubes, as they might not carry the special radial tubes that are required. If you were not buying radials, then I don't know what their problem was. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 06:14:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FAEYN23454 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 06:14:34 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4F9Bf401821 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4F9BeW01818 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:11:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29550 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 05:11:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4F8qT405806 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:29 -0400 Received: from mail4.halcyon.com (mail4.halcyon.com [206.63.63.62]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4F8qD605788 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 04:52:13 -0400 Received: from [206.63.38.36] (blv-tnt0-1-ip36.nwnexus.net [206.63.38.36]) by mail4.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA26101 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 01:52:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: faurecm@mail.halcyon.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:50:59 -0700 To: lro-digest@works.team.net From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:45:24 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil > I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under > washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and > the frame mounting tabs? If you're concerned about the potential for corrosion where dissimilar metals come in contact, you can put all the plastic washers you want between the parts or panels, but it won't do you a lick of good if the fastener itself contacts the metal, which it pretty much has to do if it's going to hold them together. Unless you use some sort of insulating sleeve to keep the barrel and threads of the fastener from making a conductive connection between the two pieces of metal you're joining, the potential for electrolysis will always be there through the fastener, especially if it screws into one or both pieces of metal, as a sheet metal screw tends to do. I've seen examples where people have pointed with great pride at the wonderful insulating job they though they did using plastic, nylon, etc. washers with fasteners that connected aluminum and steel components on a floatplane, only to be dismayed by the repair bills when corrosion formed around the fasteners anyway. They had overlooked the fact that the fastener itself formed the contact between the two metals. Their fancy insulating washer system looked great but accomplished nothing. If you want to eliminate the potential for electrolysis and its resulting corrosion, there cannot be ANY conductive connection between the two pieces of dissimilar metals, and that includes the fasteners themselves. There are several ways of accomplishing this, but they involve more than just sticking a plastic washer underneath the metal washer at each end of a fastener. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 15:28:03 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FJS3N24624 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:28:03 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4FIPAm16146 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4FIP8W16141 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08740 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:25:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4FHMkM15604 for lro-digest-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:22:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:22:46 -0400 Message-Id: <200105151722.f4FHMkM15604@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #377 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, May 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 377 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:16:52 -0400 From: asfco Subject: Re: LRO: overrider q. "William J. Rice" wrote: > How far above the bumper do overriders sit? It looks like about 2" in > the photos. I just dropped my bumper and some wrecked bumpers (though > it's not really clear at first glance which are or aren't the "wrecked" > ones) at the welders for him to clean up and put overriders on, and I'm > wondering how far up he should mount 'em. > > tia, > bill Bill; there is a space of 2 1/2 inches between the top of the bumper and the bottom of the over rider Rgds Steve Bradke '68 lla 88 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:22:36 -0700 From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions) Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:21:35 -0700 From: "Paul Quin" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Re: 2 Land Rover related questions > >>Why do the Brit's drive on the left?<< >> Because it's SAFER ! Research has been done to show that because the >This is good logic, but you all were driving (horses) on the left a century before it was necessary to change gears... Good point. I did some filming a couple of years ago with a stagecoach and a full team of horses in eastern Washington. The driver of a stagecoach sits on the right, while the relief driver/guard sits on the left. The big footbrake is on the right side of the coach. If you live in a part of the US where Wells Fargo bank has a presence and runs TV commercials, you can see this for yourself in the shots featuring the Concord coach they use as their trademark. The lighter weight, mountain version of the heavy, flatland Condord, called a "mud wagon" also seats the driver on the right. I haven't been observant enough to see if this "driver on the right" applies to freight wagons and other horse-drawn vehicles in addition to Concord coaches and mud wagons. (For anyone really interested in seeing what a mud wagon looks like, there is one featured in the 1960s movie "Hombre," starring Paul Newman. If you have never seen the movie, it's excellent and is not at all "dated" in style- it could have been made last week.) Here's another puzzle, though. In the US and Canada, railroad engine drivers sit on the right side of their cabs, and oncoming trains pass (on a double track mainline) to the left of each other. Maybe I didn't word that correctly, but when the trains pass, each driver is on the opposite (outside) side of their cab from the passing train. In the UK, I believe, the driver sits on the LEFT side of the cab, and oncoming trains pass each other on the RIGHT. So in the US, we used to drive our wagons from the right side of the vehicle, we still drive our trains while seated on the right side of the engine, but we drive our cars while seated on the left side. In the UK, I have no idea what side the driver sat on when driving a horse-drawn coach (I know a lot of their coaches and cabs put the driver in the center), but they drive their trains while seated on the left side of the engine (I'm pretty sure), but drive their cars while seated on the right side. I suspect there's not any big, dramatic reason for any of this. Perhaps the reason a driver sits where he does is due more to the original layout of the vehicle types in question. Or perhaps someone built a bench-seat cart to hunt wooly mamoths or Christians with, and happened to stick the brake or flaggon-holder on whatever side, which meant he had to sit on that side, too, so that's the way everyone else in town built their carts. I'll tell you this; a right hand drive Series Land Rover is a hell of a lot easier to work on than a left-hand drive Land Rover, because the clutch and brake master cylinders are farther out in the engine bay. There's none of this "let's tuck the clutch master up under the left wing and make the poor sods take the whole damn body off to get at it" sort of thing. (I built a hinged hatch in my wing that lets me get at the clutch master very handily, but not until I'd done the "remove the body" thing once.) ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:38:26 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions) >From: "C. Marin Faure" I almost forgot the real reason the Brits have right hand steering. The exhaust pipes on an inline engine exit the left side and run under the left footwell. Designed to keep the American Drivers feet toasty warm all year around. Had a Healey that would glue your sneakers to the floor board, it got so hot. Aloha Peter >I'll tell you this; a right hand drive Series Land Rover is a hell of a lot >easier to work on than a left-hand drive Land Rover, because the clutch and >brake master cylinders are farther out in the engine bay. There's none of >this "let's tuck the clutch master up under the left wing and make the poor >sods take the whole damn body off to get at it" sort of thing. (I built a >hinged hatch in my wing that lets me get at the clutch master very handily, >but not until I'd done the "remove the body" thing once.) > > >________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle, WA > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:43:35 -0600 From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: LRO: Which side? (was 2 Land Rover questions) At 19:22 14/05/01 -0700, C. Marin Faure, wrote >Here's another puzzle, though. In the US and Canada, railroad engine >drivers sit on the right side of their cabs, and oncoming trains pass (on a >double track mainline) to the left of each other. And another one to add to the list. Why do helicopter pilots (pilot-in-command) sit on the right with their co-joes to the left while aircraft PIC's sit on the left? And isn't there something about boat drivers on the right as well? Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:35:03 EDT From: Gbrovers@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor Keith Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell them for $299. Way better than a Lucas. Bill Great Basin Rovers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:48:25 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor On Mon, 14 May 2001 Gbrovers@aol.com wrote: :Keith : Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell :them for $299. Way better than a Lucas. the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long. My first guess would be an improper gound. There should be a ground strap attached to the starter. I think the stock strap goes to the block. I run mine to the battery. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:00:08 -0500 From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: Zenith fix "Ross Maylor" >I sent this message previously and got no response so either you guys are >dead or nobody gives a rats arse. >Installed new Zenith 361v carb to replace old one that was worn and leaking >gas past the O ring seal into the engine resulting in rough-rich running and >no idle no matter how much adjustments were made. The new carb is better but >suffers from the same problem. A thicker O ring helped only slightly. I read >on a LR web site a brief mention of glass plate grinding that may offer help >but no details of this were provided. Can any one expand on this? The lazy buggers at Zenith/Solex never bothered to anneal their carbs, so they can warp the first time they get good an hot.... The first thing it to do is anneal the bloody thing: disassemble it completely, and put the top cover and bottom half in a 400 F degree oven overnight. The next day, reduce the temp by 50/hour 'til at room temperature. Then glass plate grind it. Place some 200 to 400 grit carborundum paper on a plate of glass. (Has to be absolutely flat....) Add a drop of oil. Swirl the carb halves on the paper...you'll soon see where the high/low spots are. Take care to remove equal amounts from both halves. When both flanges are equally shiny, reassemble with a new o-ring. Cheers *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----* | | | A. P. "Sandy" Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | (757)423-4898 (757)622-7054 FAX (757)622-7056 | | | *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:17:51 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor How are the teeth on the ring gear??? David Scheidt wrote: > > On Mon, 14 May 2001 Gbrovers@aol.com wrote: > > :Keith > : Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I sell > :them for $299. Way better than a Lucas. > > the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something > going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long. My first guess would > be an improper gound. There should be a ground strap attached to the > starter. I think the stock strap goes to the block. I run mine to the > battery. > > -- > dscheidt@tumbolia.com > Bipedalism is only a fad. - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 02:16:20 -0400 From: "Richard L. Ziegler" Subject: LRO: Distributors pollution vs. non-pollution control Hope Peter notes that he knows of some late IIa and III L/Rs that do not have retard type distributors on them. Yup! Even my '74 series III has the advance type distributor on it. Of course it was not imported that way (and neither were the ones he mentions) as I wound up replacing the original retard type distributor with the advance type for the previous owner of what is now my '74 L/R. You have to remember that the first things that deteriorated on the L/Rs were the pollution control bits and pieces and British Leyland did not resupply them so we would convert the engines to be like the older ones by taking off the pollution control equipment as the items wore out. The advance type distributor fits in the same place as the retard type distributor so once you had to replace the Zenith pollution control carb with one that was not pollution control you might as well change the distributor to the advance type and set the timing specs to those of the L/Rs that were running around in the rest of the world (the same specs that were used on earlier NADA L/Rs). In '68 for NADA (North American Dollar Area) the only thing that was put on to achieve pollution control was a PCV valve. In '69 they changed the carb to the Zenith pollution control type with the requisite retard distributor and they also added a front exhaust pipe that incorporated an exhaust gas recirculation device that plugged into the base area of the carb (these bits being the very first items to deteriorate and BL had no exact replacements for them). In addition they sealed the gas tank system and added the charcoal filter for gasoline fumes, which were then piped to the air intake horn. This system was then used on the Series III L/Rs which we first saw in the USA in the 2nd half of 1972. Needless to say, when British Leyland stopped importing L/Rs to NADA in 1974 they also quit importing parts for them. Note to TeriAnn: It is not the body seals that are being replaced it is the rubber pieces that are between the chassis and the rear box that act as cushions there. Rich Ziegler, Series L/R mechanic & owner since '63 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:02:40 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: differential play. I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches. You guys told me that this was play in the rear differential. I have the same amount of play in the front end also. So is this repairable? What is the most likely casue? Pinion and ring wear? Pinion bearings? Mahalo Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:35:14 -0700 From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: Stalling/Rough idling SIII Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 12:39:56 -0400 From: "KURT W. KRAUSS" Subject: LRO: Stalling/Rough idling SIII >When it starts, it puts out a white puff of smoke. This always happens, when starting cold or warm. It did this before the new head gasket was installed. Just got back from vacation and read this, so you probably already have a bunch of helpful answers. As I'm sure you know, white smoke generally indicates coolant getting into the cylinders, usually via a failed head gasket or cracked block. However, this usually continues the whole time the engine is running. The only reason I can think of that you would have only a brief coolant leak with its associated white smoke is if the leak is very tiny, and as the cylinder heats up, the crack closes. A bit of a stretch this, but possible. I operated a Caterpillar road grader on a ranch in the Rockies back in the mid-1960s. It was a diesel, but it was started on gasoline. You'd run the thing on gas until a certain head temperature was reached, at which point you switched it over to diesel. I recall that for the first several minutes after it was switched over, the exhaust was pure white. Then it gradually turned dark gray and then pretty much went away altogether. I don't know what caused the exhaust to run white at first (this was normal), but perhaps there's something there that could relate to what your engine is doing. Of course, it is normal for a gasoline engine to emit white "smoke" when first started, particularly on colder mornings. This is steam, and gradually fades away as the exhaust system warms up. But it doesn't sound like this is what you're seeing. It is VERY normal for a Series engine, even when they were brand new, to start with a puff, sometimes a BIG puff, of blue smoke. This is because the seals around the valves are basically worthless even when new, and with the engine's sloppy tolerances, oil easily seeps down the valve stems and pools on the pistons. When you start up, all this oil burns away with the blue cloud most Series drivers are familiar with. It should go away after a few seconds. If there is coolant getting into the oil that seeps down into the cylinders after the engine is switched off, I suppose it's possible the startup puff could be white, not blue. A reliable and simple way to judge if your engine is running right is to look at the inside of the exhaust pipe after a normal drive. Not a short drive, but one in which the engine runs at normal operating temperature and rpms for some time after the choke has been pushed off. After a "normal" drive, the inside of the pipe should be light gray or brown. If it is dark gray or black, you've got a problem, usually a mis-adjusted mixture, but possibly also weak ignition, bad valve(s), etc. >Also it is now idling idling roughly and sometimes stalls at idle. It seems to "pop-pop-pop" like an old 2 cycle Saab, but does not backfire, when going down hills in gear. It doesn't burn oil. If you had a Zenith carburetor, I'd guess that you were suffereing from the infamous Zenith Warp, which causes the engine to lug down and "chug" unevenly at idle, sometimes to the point of stalling, whenever the vehicle sitting level or pointing uphill (the warp is not a problem if the vehicle is pointing downhill). But you don't have a Zenith, and I don't know anything about the care and feeding of Solex carbs. "Pop-pop-pop" is hard to diagnose via e-mail. If it's a spitting-sounding "pop-pop-pop," this could indicate a burned exhaust valve or two. A quick-and-dirty way to check for that is to extend a piece of paper over the end of the exhaust pipe. The exhaust will push the paper away. However, if you have a bad exhaust valve, the paper will be momentarily sucked onto the end of the pipe when the cylinder with the bad valve goes through its intake cycle. Of course, if you have a manifold pressure gauge installed (this and a tach being the only two instruments worth having in a Series along with the pressure and temp gauges), it will show you if you've got a bad valve clear as day. But it's been my experience that a burned valve does not cause the engine to backfire against compression, or do anything else out of the ordinary other than the spitting sound of the exhaust at idle, and of course, degraded performance. Finally, if a couple of spark plug wires are switched round, this could cause the uneven running you are experiencing. Depending on how the wires are switched, the engine may run reasonably well, or it may run horribly. Also, if the points are mis-adjusted or worn beyond limits, this could cause uneven firing. So I'd suggest first making sure that the plugs are connected to the distributor in the correct order and that the points are in good shape and gapped properly before going on to more potentially discouraging things like looking for burned valves. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:50:59 -0700 From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 01:45:24 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil > I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under > washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and > the frame mounting tabs? If you're concerned about the potential for corrosion where dissimilar metals come in contact, you can put all the plastic washers you want between the parts or panels, but it won't do you a lick of good if the fastener itself contacts the metal, which it pretty much has to do if it's going to hold them together. Unless you use some sort of insulating sleeve to keep the barrel and threads of the fastener from making a conductive connection between the two pieces of metal you're joining, the potential for electrolysis will always be there through the fastener, especially if it screws into one or both pieces of metal, as a sheet metal screw tends to do. I've seen examples where people have pointed with great pride at the wonderful insulating job they though they did using plastic, nylon, etc. washers with fasteners that connected aluminum and steel components on a floatplane, only to be dismayed by the repair bills when corrosion formed around the fasteners anyway. They had overlooked the fact that the fastener itself formed the contact between the two metals. Their fancy insulating washer system looked great but accomplished nothing. If you want to eliminate the potential for electrolysis and its resulting corrosion, there cannot be ANY conductive connection between the two pieces of dissimilar metals, and that includes the fasteners themselves. There are several ways of accomplishing this, but they involve more than just sticking a plastic washer underneath the metal washer at each end of a fastener. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 01:47:37 -0700 From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:51:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil >I recently pulled and refurbished the intermediate floor in my 109SW and found some semi-serious corrosion at the extreme outboard ends of the rearmost support flange for this floor panel. The floor panel is held in place by large screws which screw into steel clips attached to the support flange. The area around the hole where the clip is located on the flange is heavily corroded/nonexistent. Have been on vacation, so only read your post today. You may have already come up with solutions but: You could try welding or screwing in patches to cover the missing or weak parts of the support flange, which you could then redrill for the steel clips. >I want to stay away from steel fasteners in this location which I guess is susceptible to corrosion because of mud/moisture from the rear wheel, or the lack of grease/oil thrown in the area (no similar extent corrosion on the front intermediate floor support flange). I wouldn't worry too much about using steel fasteners. I've owned my SIII for twenty-eight years, and I've not had any serious rust problems with the fasteners the factory used, despite their being the cheapest grade crap that the company could buy at the time. It's STAINLESS steel fasteners I'd advise you to stay away from. Coating the steel fasteners you put in with LPS-3 (not -1 or -2) will help ward off rust, and there are other products you can use for this purpose, too. I use LPS-3 once a year on the fasteners and springs on our boat trailer, and it's been pretty much rust-free for over 15 years despite regular dippings in salt water. >I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and the frame mounting tabs? Big waste of time unless you can figure out how to insulate the fastener itself from the metal it's holding together. As I explained in another post, any conductive connection between two pieces of dissimilar metals carries the potential for electrolysis and its associated corrosion. So you not only have to insulate the parts themselves from each other, but the barrel, head, and threads of all the fasteners as well. The crummy steel used in Series Land Rovers, the cheap fasteners, the tinny washers, and the aluminum alloy skin are not all that far apart on the Galvanic chart. So the potential for electrolysis on the "stock" components of a Series is not all that great. Where you could get into trouble is if you start using stainless steel on the vehicle, particularly for fasteners that are going to be in conductive contact with the aluminum alloy skin. Your biggest problem will be rust, depending on how you use your vehicle and the environment where you live. Priming and painting installed fasteners and/or coating them with LPS-3 or some other adhesive protectant is your best defense against rust. Makng sure there are drain holes in the bottoms of door structures and so forth helps, too. As I recall, you live in Oregon. I don't believe they use salt on the roads down there, and unless you drive a lot on the beaches, I don't think a humid, salt-air environment is going to be a factor for you. So giving the new steel fasteners you install in your floor a good painting and/or coating of LPS-3, etc. should protect your repair for many, many years. And if you do what I do, and put off replacing a leaking front crank seal for decades, the oil blown back under the vehicle at speed will prevent rust from forming on ANYTHING, even if you live in a hot, humid, salty environment out in the middle of the Pacific. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 00:46:46 -0700 From: "C. Marin Faure" Subject: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 07:20:44 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: tyres (tires) and sizes >I haven't had a tire shop give me any trouble about mounting 235/85/16's >on the 5.5" rims. Costco did refuse to mount the tires with tubes, >however. I have always run tubes in the bias-ply tires I have run for the past twenty-eight years, even the tubeless versions. However, I did not find out until recently that if you want to put tubes inside a RADIAL tire (which you pretty much have to do it you want a tubeless radial tire to remain reliably mounted on an old Series Land Rover wheel) you HAVE to use a special radial tube. They are not all that cheap, by the way. According to the local expert tire shops I've talked to in the process of deciding what new tires to put on my SIII, putting a non-radial ("normal") tube into a radial tire will potentially cause BIG problems. Mainly, the "normal" tube will eventually unseat the radial tire from the rim, and Bad Things will then happen to you as you motor down the freeway. This may be why Costco would not mount your tires with tubes, as they might not carry the special radial tubes that are required. If you were not buying radials, then I don't know what their problem was. ________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:35:33 -0000 From: "David Macgregor" Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor Totaly unrelated does anyone have a lucas part number for a 90 - 2.5N/A diesel?? cheers dave S111 Lightweight 2.5D >From: "Jim Hall" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor >Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:17:51 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [216.35.192.58] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBCC9F6DE005E40042A22D823C03A0C280; Mon May 14 21:09:05 2001 >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id >f4F461u02780for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:06:01 -0400 >Received: from dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net (dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net >[206.196.128.5])by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id >f4F45v602776for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 00:05:57 -0400 >Received: (qmail 24744 invoked by uid 0); 15 May 2001 04:05:52 -0000 >Received: from dnvrapanas86poolb143.dnvr.uswest.net (HELO qwest.net) >(65.100.177.143) by dnvrpop3.dnvr.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 May 2001 >04:05:52 -0000 >From md-owner@works.team.net Mon May 14 21:09:07 2001 >Message-ID: <3B00ADEF.9247A67F@qwest.net> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; U) >References: > >Sender: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net >Precedence: bulk >X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi > >How are the teeth on the ring gear??? > >David Scheidt wrote: > > > > On Mon, 14 May 2001 Gbrovers@aol.com wrote: > > > > :Keith > > : Mean Green sells a gear reduction starter for the Series Rover. I >sell > > :them for $299. Way better than a Lucas. > > > > the mean green may be much better than the Lucas, but there's something > > going on if keith's starters aren't lasting very long. My first guess >would > > be an improper gound. There should be a ground strap attached to the > > starter. I think the stock strap goes to the block. I run mine to the > > battery. > > > > -- > > dscheidt@tumbolia.com > > Bipedalism is only a fad. > >-- >Jim Hall >1966 88" Elephant Chaser >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 05:57:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. On Mon, 14 May 2001, Hope Peter wrote: :I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches. You guys :told me that this was play in the rear differential. I have the same amount :of play in the front end also. :So is this repairable? What is the most likely casue? Slop in the diffs and prop shafts. A couple inches shouldn't be a problem. : - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 07:45:08 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix timing Casey, yes the knurled knob jobbie is called for here. THink of it as a vernier adjustment - coarse adjustment being turning the dizzy and fine being tweaking the adjustment on the vacuum capsule shaft. More the point, static timing it for a default adjustment might be a good thing. With the ignition off, set the crank to 6BTDC on the compression stroke. Lay the coil wire 1/4" from a grounded bit of metal and turn the ignition on. With the pinch bolt snug but not tight, turn the dizzy full against rotation, then bring it forward slowly. Lock it down when the coil sparks. This is a trick the Allison ignition guys told me when I called the tech support guys asking how to static-time an engine w/their system.... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:51:53 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. What's to fix? John and Muddy Hope Peter wrote: > > I engage the parking brake and my Rover rolls a couple of inches. You guys > told me that this was play in the rear differential. I have the same amount > of play in the front end also. > So is this repairable? What is the most likely casue? > Pinion and ring wear? > Pinion bearings? > Mahalo > Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:07:48 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. Peter, they all do this. it's normal slop in the drivetrain. If you can rotate the shaft and it's no more than about 45 degrees before engagement it's well within tolerances. There's nothing here to repair.... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:30:08 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: Pertronix timing Al, shouldn't this read "Turn the dizzy forward then turn it back until it sparks." The motion of the rotor shaft has to be the same with respect to the dizzy body as it would be when running normally or the timing can be off by the backlash of the mechanical and electrical functions. > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus [SMTP:Alan_Richer@Lotus.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:45 AM > To: lro@Works.Team.Net > Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix timing > > > Casey, yes the knurled knob jobbie is called for here. THink of it as a > vernier adjustment - coarse adjustment being turning the dizzy and fine > being tweaking the adjustment on the vacuum capsule shaft. > > More the point, static timing it for a default adjustment might be a good > thing. With the ignition off, set the crank to 6BTDC on the compression > stroke. Lay the coil wire 1/4" from a grounded bit of metal and turn the > ignition on. With the pinch bolt snug but not tight, turn the dizzy full > against rotation, then bring it forward slowly. > > Lock it down when the coil sparks. > > This is a trick the Allison ignition guys told me when I called the tech > support guys asking how to static-time an engine w/their system.... > > ajr > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 06:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: anti rattle springs - --- "William J. Rice" wrote: I did this job > once > and I think the thing fell out pretty promptly. me too. this time I unbolted the lever's socket from the shift fork. then put the spring in. thne re-attached the socket. and tightened the lever's mounting down at the bellhousing. Now the noisiest red lever in the history of the universe has had it's rattle sufficiently muted so as to not require the hat to be hung on it anymore which previous to the above described repair was the only way to quiet it down. It does still rattle but now it is a at a pitch that is more like a distant sewing machine than a dentist's drill being used on hammer setting to shatter your teeth. The sound from that lever was capable of liquefying inner ears. I wouldn't be shy about slathering the whole socket/ball set-up with some sort of thick grease either -although I ran out of time and daylight so I didn't. That might create a cushion for the vibrations that might otherwise eventually worry that inexpensive stock anti-rattle spring loose from its mooring. Did he say "mooring?" dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:11:24 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: RE: LRO: Pertronix timing Re: Forward then back: Absolutely - this is what I get for answering a question when coffee-deprived..... One of the joys of being left-handed....you confuse these things easily. Thanks, Trevor - much appreciate the catch on that one. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:59:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Harder Subject: LRO: generator "failure" & wiring problems... the green "nocharge" light stayed on last night and the guage showed a steady discharge with the lights on. curses -- looks like the generator failed. maybe the voltage regulator... i have a spare generator, but for some reason i would rather rebuild (and keep the spare ready (WHY is this?)). thought of the 2-3 days required to rebuild mine. well, i can go a week or so before doing it. make sure the handcrank is onboard. yes, there it is... on the way to work this morning, i saw some smoke comming from under the bonnet -- curses, there is a wiring fire. make it to the next light and pull over. looked under the bonnet and -- lo and behold -- there lay my fan belt with a nice break in it. my generator problem was fixed -- the electrical wiring smoke was steam released by the radiator cap. since i just drive 3 miles to work, i can put this one off till the weekend... the rover drives on -- pretty reliable vehicle for me... ray harder & lulu -- siia 61 88... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:54:08 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: generator "failure" & wiring problems... Y'know, Ray, most of us would have gone for the fanbelt FIRST....8*) Seriously, though, I wouldn't drive around w/no water pump operating...not good for the engine. aj"Always start w/the obvious...."r ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:53:02 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. > :So is this repairable? What is the most likely casue? > > Slop in the diffs and prop shafts. A couple inches shouldn't be a problem. > : Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the play is definately in the differential. It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions (forward/reverse) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:06:58 EDT From: Gbrovers@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: starter motor In a message dated 5/14/01 10:06:38 PM, jimfoo@qwest.net writes: << How are the teeth on the ring gear??? >> Jim Another advantage of a Mean Green starter is not having to replace the ring gear on the flywheel if it is shot. This is because the drive gear on an MG starter engages from the opposite side from a Lucas. It pushes the drive gear out instead of pulling it in. Way less expensive than replacing the starter ring gear. Bill Great Basin Rovers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:21:32 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. >Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the >play is definately in the differential. >It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions >(forward/reverse) >Pete You and everybody else..... Don't worry about it. You want clunks drive a Range Rover.....the Series noise will pale in comparison. Seriously, the play that is in there is simply the clearances in the differentials - this has to be there to prevent the tooth pressures from being a problem. Don't worry about it. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:21:51 -0400 From: Tate Crumbley Subject: Re: LRO: differential play. Some things never change. "Clunk when changing directions in a 30 year old truck." My 98 Disco does the same thing. Seems to be mostly in diffs and hubs. Everyone I've ever talked to says that this is normal. Tate At 04:53 PM 5/14/2001 -1000, you wrote: > > :So is this repairable? What is the most likely casue? > > > > Slop in the diffs and prop shafts. A couple inches shouldn't be a >problem. > > : > > >Oops forgot to add, new ujoints and drive shafts have been installed, the >play is definately in the differential. >It is enough that I get a clunk if I am changing directions >(forward/reverse) >Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:22:25 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: oops Bill Rice wrote: >Forgot to mention fellow lister Tim Czajka, who lives right here in Ft. >Collins. He was one of the madmen at frameover party number one ... > I probably drank more beer than helped:) Bill and the crew work fast. Jim Hall and I think Dave Gomez had the rusted up bulkhead repaired and ready to go in one sitting. Inspiration for getting my Series back on the road. It was great actually meeting some real live list members - walking up Bill's driveway I half expected to see a bunch of guys typing away at computer terminals:) Instead just the music of compressors, arc welders, and sawzalls. I would say Bill has a very understanding landlady:) Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #377 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue May 15 20:33:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4G0XrN25462 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 20:33:53 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f4FNV2t25002 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f4FNV1W24999 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@[216.35.192.58]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04871 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4FNKIN20129 for lro-gone; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:20:18 -0400 Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4FNKD620125 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:20:14 -0400 Received: from mindspring.com (user-vcauu53.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.120.163]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11548 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3B01B97A.44279531@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:19:22 -0700 From: George Simmons X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Helicopter controls References: <200105151722.f4FHMkM15604@works.team.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lro@works.team.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lro@works.team.net X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi No Land Rover content. As a former helicopter pilot who went through training in the early 60's I remember being told that the reason the pilot-in-command(PIC) sat in the right seat rather than the left was due to the early design of the controls. A helicopter has basically 2 control sticks one in the right hand-the cyclic-and one in the left-the collective. The cyclic moves you frontwards and backwards and side to side. the collective(called so because it controls the collective pitch on the main rotor blades) governs the up and down motion. Granted this is very simplified because helicopter control is seldom a single motion of one control but rather a combination of many. On the end of the collective where the pilot gripped the stick was a twistgrip throttle that controlled the engine RPM. In the reciprocating engine powered helicopters there was a need to manually control the engine RPM as power was needed. Turbine powered helicopters do this automatically, but the recips required the pilot to maintain a certain RPM to keep the rotor turning to fly. This meant that as power requirements changed the throttle had to be twisted. As the collective was raised to get more lift and/or airspeed the throttle had to be increased to keep the engine RPM in the green(safe RPM range). The early helicopters -before my time- had only one collective and that was located in the center of the cockpit with the two pilots on either side. This meant that the person in the left seat had to fly with the wrong hands on the controls, if you will, and control was difficult at best. Also for training purposes the student sat in the right seat and the instructor had to fly "backwards" with hands on the wrong controls. George in Auburn