From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Mon Apr 30 12:32:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3UGWON00754 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:32:24 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3UFSuq14552 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3UFSuW14549 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03250 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 11:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3UEgl824203 for lro-digest-gone; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:42:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:42:47 -0400 Message-Id: <200104301442.f3UEgl824203@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #362 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Monday, April 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 362 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:34:30 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal All 4 of my drums have only 1 screw hole Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > Aloha Colin: > > Unless you have some ersatz aftermarket drums, there ARE three flat head > machine screws holding the drums to the hub. Look very closely, they may be > hiding under rust and crud. If you don't see three chamfered holes for the > machine screws, something is terribly amiss. The hole for the push off bolt > is not chamfered, just a flush hole that's threaded and should be the fourth > hole in the face of the drum. > > Aloha > Peter Ogilvie > Kona Coffee Rover > 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering > from exposure of the dark side. > 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally running. > 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. > 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will > certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust > > >From: "Colin Clegg" > > > >There is only 1 screw on mine (The fronts have three). There is a second > >hole, I'll try a bolt and see if that helps. > > > >Colin > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:39:33 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: front seal retainer As unlikely as that is, I guess it's a good enough reason. John Cranfield wrote: > > Without the retainer it possible for a stick to push the seal back into > the front cover. How do I know this? > The usual way :( > John and Muddy > - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:49:15 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Colin Clegg wrote: :Definately only 1 screw. I have just been and double checked. It has a :chamfered edge as you say. The only other whole is flush, I take it that :this is the push off bolt. : :The front hubs have three screws and a fourth flush hole. : :Guess I must have some weird hubs on the back then. Just cheap after-market drums. I'm not sure if three screws are required in normal use, but the certainly are if ytou find yourself using the brake drum as a wheel. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:53:52 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal Then I guess you have you been shorted some screwability on your drums. Funny that the 28 or so hubs that I've got lying around all have three holes. Of course they are genyouine Rover parts. Is it possible that Rover or some aftermarket supplier descrewed the hubs somewhere along the line. My collection is from '71 and back. When you say you have only one hole, is it that you have only one flat head screw fitted to one of the three holes or that there is only one hole in the drum?? The flat head screws are not spaced equally around the hub by the way. Two are relatively close together like at 11:00 and 1:00 with the third opposite at 6:00. >From: "Jim Hall" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:34:30 -0600 > >All 4 of my drums have only 1 screw hole > >Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > > > Aloha Colin: > > > > Unless you have some ersatz aftermarket drums, there ARE three flat head > > machine screws holding the drums to the hub. Look very closely, they >may be > > hiding under rust and crud. If you don't see three chamfered holes for >the > > machine screws, something is terribly amiss. The hole for the push off >bolt > > is not chamfered, just a flush hole that's threaded and should be the >fourth > > hole in the face of the drum. > > > > Aloha > > Peter Ogilvie > > Kona Coffee Rover > > 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering > > from exposure of the dark side. > > 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally running. > > 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. > > 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will > > certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust > > > > >From: "Colin Clegg" > > > > > >There is only 1 screw on mine (The fronts have three). There is a >second > > >hole, I'll try a bolt and see if that helps. > > > > > >Colin > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >-- >Jim Hall >1966 88" Elephant Chaser >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:54:20 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal Then I guess you have you been shorted some screwability on your drums. Funny that the 28 or so hubs that I've got lying around all have three holes. Of course they are genyouine Rover parts. Is it possible that Rover or some aftermarket supplier descrewed the hubs somewhere along the line. My collection is from '71 and back. When you say you have only one hole, is it that you have only one flat head screw fitted to one of the three holes or that there is only one hole in the drum?? The flat head screws are not spaced equally around the hub by the way. Two are relatively close together like at 11:00 and 1:00 with the third opposite at 6:00. >From: "Jim Hall" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:34:30 -0600 > >All 4 of my drums have only 1 screw hole > >Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > > > Aloha Colin: > > > > Unless you have some ersatz aftermarket drums, there ARE three flat head > > machine screws holding the drums to the hub. Look very closely, they >may be > > hiding under rust and crud. If you don't see three chamfered holes for >the > > machine screws, something is terribly amiss. The hole for the push off >bolt > > is not chamfered, just a flush hole that's threaded and should be the >fourth > > hole in the face of the drum. > > > > Aloha > > Peter Ogilvie > > Kona Coffee Rover > > 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering > > from exposure of the dark side. > > 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally running. > > 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. > > 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will > > certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust > > > > >From: "Colin Clegg" > > > > > >There is only 1 screw on mine (The fronts have three). There is a >second > > >hole, I'll try a bolt and see if that helps. > > > > > >Colin > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >-- >Jim Hall >1966 88" Elephant Chaser >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:28:51 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal Tis true some drums only have one securing screw hole however it seems all hubs have 3 holes. John and Muddy Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > Then I guess you have you been shorted some screwability on your drums. > Funny that the 28 or so hubs that I've got lying around all have three > holes. Of course they are genyouine Rover parts. Is it possible that Rover > or some aftermarket supplier descrewed the hubs somewhere along the line. > My collection is from '71 and back. When you say you have only one hole, is > it that you have only one flat head screw fitted to one of the three holes > or that there is only one hole in the drum?? The flat head screws are not > spaced equally around the hub by the way. Two are relatively close together > like at 11:00 and 1:00 with the third opposite at 6:00. > > >From: "Jim Hall" > >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net > >To: lro@Works.Team.Net > >Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal > >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 15:34:30 -0600 > > > >All 4 of my drums have only 1 screw hole > > > >Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > > > > > Aloha Colin: > > > > > > Unless you have some ersatz aftermarket drums, there ARE three flat head > > > machine screws holding the drums to the hub. Look very closely, they > >may be > > > hiding under rust and crud. If you don't see three chamfered holes for > >the > > > machine screws, something is terribly amiss. The hole for the push off > >bolt > > > is not chamfered, just a flush hole that's threaded and should be the > >fourth > > > hole in the face of the drum. > > > > > > Aloha > > > Peter Ogilvie > > > Kona Coffee Rover > > > 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering > > > from exposure of the dark side. > > > 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally running. > > > 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. > > > 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will > > > certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust > > > > > > >From: "Colin Clegg" > > > > > > > >There is only 1 screw on mine (The fronts have three). There is a > >second > > > >hole, I'll try a bolt and see if that helps. > > > > > > > >Colin > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > >-- > >Jim Hall > >1966 88" Elephant Chaser > >http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo > >"You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling > >with Jim." Mitch Stockdale > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:32:40 -0700 From: "Paul Quin" Subject: LRO: Refitting the engine The new rear main oil seal is in. The old seal was the original SII style with the seal bilt into the retainer halves (no spring). I fitted the newer type with the split ring seal and spring and two new retainer halves. I spent this morning putting everything back togeather and I am now in the process of re-intalling the engine. I knew that this would be the frustrating part. Tranny and engine don't want to meet. I've aligned the clutch disk as best I can. I'm at the point now where I think that it might be easier to move the transmission back and bolt the engine in then move the transmission to meet the engine. The hoist has to be back at the rental store tomorrow morning so I think it'll have to wait until next weekend. Does anyone have any other suggestions or helpful techniques?? Paul Quin 1961 SII 88 Victoria BC Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 20:47:11 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Refitting the engine Remove one bolt on each side of the belhousing and with the engine as true as possible install a long 3/8 bolt in each side. this will allow you to better keep the engine and tranny lined up as you bring them together. Resist the temptation to use the bolts to clamp the engine to the tranny until they come together by pushing. John Paul Quin wrote: > > The new rear main oil seal is in. The old seal was the original SII style > with the seal bilt into the retainer halves (no spring). I fitted the newer > type with the split ring seal and spring and two new retainer halves. I > spent this morning putting everything back togeather and I am now in the > process of re-intalling the engine. > > I knew that this would be the frustrating part. Tranny and engine don't > want to meet. I've aligned the clutch disk as best I can. > > I'm at the point now where I think that it might be easier to move the > transmission back and bolt the engine in then move the transmission to meet > the engine. > > The hoist has to be back at the rental store tomorrow morning so I think > it'll have to wait until next weekend. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions or helpful techniques?? > > Paul Quin > 1961 SII 88 > > Victoria BC Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:49:10 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Refitting the engine Check the gap between the engine and tranny and make sure it is even ALL the way around. Get in the engine bay, grab the engine and twist from side to side as you slide it in. You will need to jack the tranny up to get everything even before you start. Jack it as high as possible in the front. Long bolts with the heads cut off will help in the alignment. Paul Quin wrote: > > The new rear main oil seal is in. The old seal was the original SII style > with the seal bilt into the retainer halves (no spring). I fitted the newer > type with the split ring seal and spring and two new retainer halves. I > spent this morning putting everything back togeather and I am now in the > process of re-intalling the engine. > > I knew that this would be the frustrating part. Tranny and engine don't > want to meet. I've aligned the clutch disk as best I can. > > I'm at the point now where I think that it might be easier to move the > transmission back and bolt the engine in then move the transmission to meet > the engine. > > The hoist has to be back at the rental store tomorrow morning so I think > it'll have to wait until next weekend. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions or helpful techniques?? > > Paul Quin > 1961 SII 88 > > Victoria BC Canada - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:50:54 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal Only one hole in the drum, three in the hub. Peter Ogilvie wrote: > > Then I guess you have you been shorted some screwability on your drums. > Funny that the 28 or so hubs that I've got lying around all have three > holes. Of course they are genyouine Rover parts. Is it possible that Rover > or some aftermarket supplier descrewed the hubs somewhere along the line. > My collection is from '71 and back. When you say you have only one hole, is > it that you have only one flat head screw fitted to one of the three holes > or that there is only one hole in the drum?? The flat head screws are not > spaced equally around the hub by the way. Two are relatively close together > like at 11:00 and 1:00 with the third opposite at 6:00. - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 01 17:53:21 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >TeriAnn, > >It's just the withdrawal symptoms....we're all edgy (sp?) over here...can't >go offroad, we're being labeled by UK newspapers etc etc. Neil I understand the frustrations of not being able to go out greenlaning and I sympathize with the tragedy going on in your country. I sympathize for the farm families even more. It is almost impossible to raise livestock without ending up with at lest one becoming a loved pet. It's even easier if you are doing dairy or wool. I would have been broken hearted to have had to destroy my dairy herd back when I was doing that sort of thing. >Oh, and over here, >"MTV"'s as you call them, are the stock vehicles, or the leisure market >vehicles, modified Land Rovers (i.e. with winches etc) are not usually >created just for the Tesco run here!! Probably over 90% of the coiler Land/Range Rovers sold in the US have probably never been farther off road than a very well maintained forest service road. And most of them not even that. Almost all Sports Utility Vehicles sold in the US are Mall Terrain Vehicles taking the same basic niche as the Soccer mom's minivan. A lot of people in the US spend a lot of money putting big tyres and lots of off road goodies on a vehicle that will never do more than spin a few circles in a muddy vacant lot. Take care and hang in there. TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site "In the world of type A & type B drivers consider me a type C gypsy traveler. Destinations are optional and not necessarily desirable." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:17:16 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Jim Hall wrote: > However you state that you have a 2" lift. Is the magazine talking about > a stock vehicle? Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 02:09:54 -0400 (EDT) From: robert_ries09459@yahoo.com Subject: LRO: NYTimes.com Article: Cattle Disease Poses Threat to Run Wild, U.S. Finds This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by robert_ries09459@yahoo.com. Hope I'm not wasting anyone's time with this... /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Looking for better IT solutions? Toshiba is uniting digital, mobile and network innovations in a bold new vision of Information Technology for today and tomorrow. Take a closer look at life in the new Digital Age. And imagine how good IT can be. Visit Toshiba.com for more details. http://www.nytimes.com/ads/toshiba/index.html \----------------------------------------------------------/ Cattle Disease Poses Threat to Run Wild, U.S. Finds By ELIZABETH BECKER ASHINGTON, April 16 — The first comprehensive exercise about how the nation would contain foot- and-mouth disease showed that an outbreak could be stopped only with the combined strength of all federal disaster agencies, including the military, Agriculture Department officials have said. After decades of relying largely on state and local governments to help contain animal diseases, the Department of Agriculture asked the Federal Emergency Management Agency to develop a plan to combat this one as forcefully as if it threatened human lives, said Clifford Oliver, director of the Agriculture Department's office of crisis planning. "We were coming to the realization that state and local government would be overwhelmed and the U.S.D.A. would be overwhelmed if foot-and-mouth broke out," Mr. Oliver said. With Britain, one of the most advanced agricultural nations, enduring an epidemic of foot-and-mouth disease and British troops belatedly called in for mass burials of hundreds of thousands of slaughtered animals, American farmers and ranchers began lobbying their state agriculture chiefs for better planning. Those officials recently urged Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman to find out what the rest of the government could do to contain an outbreak. The federal Catastrophic Disaster Response Group, which normally worries about bioterrorism or industrial disasters, organized the tabletop exercise for the Agriculture Department on Wednesday, bringing together representatives of 26 agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Commerce, Interior, Energy and Health and Human Services, Mr. Oliver said. The exercise confirmed fears that without the entire government working to contain it, the disease would spread like wildfire if it ever reached this country. "They made it very very clear in the first 15 minutes of the exercise that the possibility of the spread of foot-and-mouth disease is very real and we need to be better prepared," said a participant who would not allow his name to be used. Mr. Oliver said, "For the first time we asked this group to look at a biological event that doesn't affect humans, only animals." The situation was played out like a military war game, with agency representatives acting out how they would react if foot-and-mouth broke out in Iowa. Participants said that the computer-generated model could not be controlled and that the disease spread to three states within 60 days, requiring 50,000 people to contain it. The virus that causes the disease could pass through the intestines of birds feeding on the carcasses of dead animals. When those birds fly to adjoining farms, they could spread the disease through their feces, far ahead of containment efforts, the exercise showed. With the explosion of world trade making the spread of the disease to this country more likely and with the routine movement of animals around the nation making the containment more difficult, several participants said the exercise showed how an outbreak here could quickly become a national emergency. "You would see the National Guard called out to kill thousands of animals in the first days and deployed to control traffic and keep thousands of people out of the area," another participant said. A representative from the United States Geological Survey was especially troubled by questions about how wildlife like deer, bison and wild pigs would be treated if they roamed near the infected areas. "If the disease infected a herd of white tail deer in the state of Virginia, would they be slaughtered, too?" the representative asked. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/17/national/17FOOT.html?ex=989610994&ei=1&en=91e1adf7dd1af850 /-----------------------------------------------------------------\ Visit NYTimes.com for complete access to the most authoritative news coverage on the Web, updated throughout the day. Become a member today! It's free! http://www.nytimes.com?eta \-----------------------------------------------------------------/ HOW TO ADVERTISE - --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson Racer at alyson@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 01 23:10:25 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Refitting the engine >I knew that this would be the frustrating part. Tranny and engine don't >want to meet. I've aligned the clutch disk as best I can. This has always been frustrating to me as well. First the clutch disk needs to be spot on aligned or the input shaft will get hung up. Try to get hold of clutch alignment tool or a old gearbox front shaft. Visual is a lot less relyable. Next the gearbox needs to be alighned in all directions. THis is easiest doen if you have two people spotting at 90 degrees (one looking down and one from the side) as you try to push it in. Last I like to dab a little bit of grease at the leading edge of the splines to try and help them slip in better. I've done it several times and it has never been as easy to me as I think it should be. TeriAnn http://www.overlander.net The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Apr 01 23:11:59 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Refitting the engine > Resist the temptation to use the bolts to clamp the engine to >the tranny until they come together by pushing. Giving into temptation and using the bolts as clamps can break bell housing flanges. TeriAnn http://www.overlander.net The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:09:14 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: NYTimes.com Article: Cattle Disease Poses Threat to Run Wild, U.S. Finds robert_ries09459@yahoo.com wrote: > Hope I'm not wasting anyone's time with this... Not likely. In countries like Botswana where F&M is endemic in the wild bovine (buffalo) population we sometimes become a little blase about it. F'rinstance there was a fairly large outbreak in Kwa Zulu Natal (South Africa) last year (we suspect it originated in southern Mozambique and crossed the border with the informal livestock movements common to the area). The area was quarantined and the outbreak dealt with in a fairly short space of time. We are used to having to move through veterinary disease control points on a continuing basis, and having out meat confiscated when on overland trips. The most frightening thing about F&M is that no-one is 100% sure how it spreads, which makes it very difficult to contain. Witness the buffalo fences that stretch across the Kalahari and have decimated the wildlife populations. And still the disease spreads. Here's hoping you guys (in the States) don't catch the bug in the first place, and that the Brits and the continentals manage to snuff it out. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:21:44 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Series II motor but surely pink is the only correct colour for a L/R engine? Best Cheers Frank Only if you own a poofy Iveco Diesel..... aj"8*)"r ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:30:46 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Blue Hylomar and frame over progress... Chris, get yuour butt up to my place of a Saturday morning - Mr. Churchill is in dire need aof a wrench party to get the chassis swap done... More the point, you do have a taper-off period here. From the first time you drive it you'll be noting anomalies in the rebuilt vehicle - taking care of those things and the inevitable "oh, damn" incidents will keep you as happily occupied as you wish to be. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:36:18 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: ring gap q Did some idiot also put a standard top ring on instead of a .060 over? - -- Sure sounds like it..... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:40:55 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: front seal retainer Jim Hall asks: I know there was some discussion recently about putting screws or something in place of the rivets to allow removal from the front. I am wondering why even put the retainer on at all. It's only purpose as I can see it is to trap dirt between it and the seal. I'm sure the seal is going nowhere without it. Any insights into this? - -- Personally, I would definitely put the retainer on. It serves a couple of purposes - one of them being to protect the seal body (which is relatively fragile in comparison), secondly it provides a sealing path for the perimeter of the seal if the latter is installed with Hylomar as per the Sacred Book. Thirdly, it protects the seal from any crud thrown by the belts.. For the little time it took to tap and bolt it was worh th it. You'd need to plug the holes anyway. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:45:44 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal OK, there is a threaded hole in the drum in the same bolt circle as the flatheaded screws that hold the drum on (you did take them out right?) Put a 3/8-24 Grade 5 bolt in that hole and tighten it down. Play the anvil chorus on the drum with a hammer (not too hard - we want vibration) and tighten the boltpreviously mentioned . THis should pop the rust free and let the drum come off. I will also assume you've backed off the brake adjusters and the like... Alan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:48:16 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Sagging springs, why. In defence of TI Console springs. I fitted them just before Greek Peak in 1998 and they have been performing well ever since. No sags and no hang ups with the rear helper spring (Someting I was concerned about). Sorry to hear of Bill's problems. Peter at TI treated me very well and promptly corrected a problem with the wrong U bolts being shipped. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:51:51 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: Brake Shoes Old motorcylist trick. Soak in gasoline then set fire to shoes. Heat drives oil out flame burns it off. Cautionary Note:- Do this in open air away from other inflammables. YMMV INRIYIY ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:13:21 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Shoes Easton Trevor A wrote: > Old motorcylist trick. Soak in gasoline then set fire to shoes. Heat drives > oil out flame burns it off. That why they call you 'Hotfoot' Easton? Oh! "Brake" shoes... :-{)} Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:54:03 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Re: Re: Brake Shoes Heat that sucker on a camp stove until it is red hot, grab it with a large channel-lock pliers and sling it on. I goofed up the first one I tried by taking too much time from the stove to the hub. It's definitely cave-man technology, but sure beats wearing out a rotator cuff banging on that thing all night. Ron Ward >>> sv@io.dk 04/28/01 04:52AM >>> Bill Fishel wrote: > The hub seal race or distance piece ( take your pick at what you want to call it) is easy to replace but I've always had to split it with a chisel. On should not try to remove it without splitting it. Once it starts to rotate it can be removed. Do not damage the flange. > I have had good luck using a light smear of grease on the new seal and distance piece for the initial installation. Mandatory! > > I personally won't replace the seal without replacing the distance piece. They dont cost much and the hub is already stripped far enough to do it. Be shure to have a tube to bang on the new race. It takes ages to ping it on with a pin hammer. A bit of heat (not much) will also ease the fit. rgds sv/aurens - just adding my 0.02c ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:59:50 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: IIa 2.25 Flywheel Housing To the left of center (facing the bulkhead) just underneath the starter switch and on the transmission casing there is a 1.5 by 3 inch opening that has a sliding cover. Looks like the flywheel is exposed to view from above for timing purposes. The little sliding cover is bent and the gasket is deteriorated so the hole is basically open to the elements. I don't know how long this has been like this. It is a PITA to reach but I can if I remove air cleaner, etc. I believe this condition has been around since last fall and I am concerned that water or mud could have found it way into this space. The truck runs like she always has, just fine. Cause for alarm? TIA Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:04:53 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: LRO: Good deed of the year. Saved a Rover from the scrap heap.... at least the engine that is. picked up the rest of the whatsup129 amazing deal Saturday, a rolling chassis that'd been sitting for about 6 years. Frame is toast, but engine may survive, and the tranny and transfer case seem good. other than that there are a few odd parts like brake line junctions that I am told are unavailable. and a good set of Dunlop Radial Rovers. we had an interesting time getting it in the garage, trying to wheel it over 8 feet into the vacant parking space was achieved with a hi lift and a 2 ton rolling jack. An interesting weekend, and my wife isn't even angry at me! Matt Peckham 74 Lightweight. 64 rolling chassis (the next project...) _____ ||===||| | \ _||___|||__|__\_{EE}_ | ____ ____ \ | / \ / \|) [||( () )\_____|( () )[ ] ~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~\~~/~~~~~~~~~ www.crossmember.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:57:27 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just >plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! ...but a 235/85 is about 1.5" wider. It's what I have on my IIa and there's a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. Keith Tanner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:22:45 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa 2.25 Flywheel Housing Don't panic....up that high it's unlikely it sucked in anything too nasty. Do fix it, though - that's the timing cover. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 01 07:18:33 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >Jim Hall wrote: > >> However you state that you have a 2" lift. Is the magazine talking about >> a stock vehicle? > >Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just >plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! 750X16 was the stock tyre size for a 109 regular. But wasn't he originally refering to a Disco?? TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 2001 07:25:57 -0700 From: Bryan Hoult Subject: Re: LRO: IIa 2.25 Flywheel Housing Ron, Yup, that's for timing. It can be got to, but it's easier with out the floor boards/tunnel cover in. The gasket set I got for my rebuild had a gasket in it for that space - so I think you can get them. I have a couple of the cover/pointer sets tunneling into my pile of parts somewhere - so if you want a fresh one, give me a shout off list. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" On Mon, 30 April 2001, "RON WARD" wrote: >To the left of center (facing the >bulkhead) just underneath the starter s >witch and on the transmission casing >there is a 1.5 by 3 inch opening that >has a sliding cover. Looks like the >flywheel is exposed to view from above >for timing purposes. ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:28:10 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! It's what I have on my IIa and there's a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. Keith Tanner And if you adjusted the turning stops it wouldn't do that..... Had 235/85 16s on Mr. C for 60K miles - got 'em on Miss Jessica now. Great tyre for a Series vehicle - especially mounted on 109 rims. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:33:29 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa 2.25 Flywheel Housing If I can reach it I will remove the whole cover and try not to drop the little retaining screw down into the flywheel. >>> Alan_Richer@Lotus.com 04/30/01 09:22AM >>> Don't panic....up that high it's unlikely it sucked in anything too nasty. Do fix it, though - that's the timing cover. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:34:56 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa 2.25 Flywheel Housing Thanks. I think I can get to the existing cover and reuse it. >>> bhoult@peoplepc.com 04/30/01 10:25AM >>> Ron, Yup, that's for timing. It can be got to, but it's easier with out the floor boards/tunnel cover in. The gasket set I got for my rebuild had a gasket in it for that space - so I think you can get them. I have a couple of the cover/pointer sets tunneling into my pile of parts somewhere - so if you want a fresh one, give me a shout off list. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" On Mon, 30 April 2001, "RON WARD" wrote: >To the left of center (facing the >bulkhead) just underneath the starter s >witch and on the transmission casing >there is a 1.5 by 3 inch opening that >has a sliding cover. Looks like the >flywheel is exposed to view from above >for timing purposes. ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:41:20 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Keith Tanner wrote: > ...but a 235/85 is about 1.5" wider. It's what I have on my IIa and there's > a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a > magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. Ahh! But maybe square shouldered 750X16's would rub as well. The point is that the rolling radius is equivalent (of course each individual manufacturer/model may differ somewhat). I have General SAG X-ply on my SIII swb, and they also rub slightly on the inside at full lock. On the other hand one of my mates has 235/85/16 BFG M/T's on his SIII swb, and they don't rub at all, they also look thinner than my 750/16's. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #362 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Mon Apr 30 20:08:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f4108RN02461 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:08:27 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3UN50e03417 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3UN4xW03414 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27019 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:04:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3UMCFJ02828 for lro-digest-gone; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:12:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:12:15 -0400 Message-Id: <200104302212.f3UMCFJ02828@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #363 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Monday, April 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 363 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:44:56 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! First thing, the magazines seem paranoid about recomending anything that wasn't OE. This is something I've noticed and find kind of funny. Like how they all think you've got to convert your head before driving with unleaded gasoline or horribe things will happen. Meanwhile in North America, people have been doing it for years and don't think about redoing their heads until it needs to be done. The other thing is, you just can't compare tires by the stated size. Just like shoes sizes, they are very different between different manufacterers. I remember when I bought some alloy wheels for the Swedish Brick from a friend. He took his Toyo's off and I was putting on Michelins. With both tires off the rim, we compared them against each other. I was putting on 205/60/15 and he had taken off 215/60/15 yet my tires were a mm or two wider than his. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:44:22 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > 750X16 was the stock tyre size for a 109 regular. But wasn't he > originally refering to a Disco?? Oops! Was he? Dunno. Came in late on the thread and figgered he was talking about Land-Rovers, this being the lro, as opposed to the cso/rro/whatever. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 01 08:40:56 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: LRO: Pink engines >but surely pink is the only correct colour for a L/R engine? Engine? I always thought it was the proper colour for a rear end assembly. When I got my first car and became aware they had such things as rear ends, I crawled under and painted it pink. It seemed appropriate some how and went with my developing sense of humor. It didn't do much for my developing sense of esthetics though. But seriously, if you are going to do pink on the engine I would suggest white on the ancillaries that are traditionally painted black and using red synthetic oil so that the leaks would not create a harsh counterpoint. I believe the best solution is to take a systems approach to colour. For a body colour to go with a pink engine I would suggest taking a page out of some of the fifties/sixties custom cars. Paint the Land Rover white. Obtain large cheap machine made lace curtains and lay them tightly over the white surface and spray over that with a contrasting colour. Pick one that would harmonize with the pink engine. The end result would be an intricate white lace pattern that sets off the solid pink engine. You might even wish to enlarge on the solid pink theme and paint the entire drive train pink as well. You could do the frame and suspension in white to carry on the interplay of colours. I took a systems approach on my Land Rover. Being a traditionalist at heart, I went with more traditional body colours. Since the Name of my Land Rover is The Green Rover, I needed to stay with a green. The Rover greens did not fit my value of colour esthetics so I widened my search to other British marques to keep the colour still within the British car family. I decided upon a 1972 Jaguar British Racing Green. Since the traditional 109 two door top is white I searched for a colour that matched the white the Martin Walter's factory originally painted on my Dormobile top. While not the correct limestone white, it allowed me to remain true to both the Dormobile roof factory colour and the Land Rover two door colour schema. When I picked the curtains for my Land Rover I went with a floral pattern that carried out both the dark green of my Land Rover's body and the white of the top. The current china carries on the white and the floral of the curtains but adds a contrasting red floral colour for interest. My cloth place settings and napkins revert back to the dark green but carries the red floral pattern to set the china off. Since the factory interior was a medium dark grey & and the factory Dormobile furniture is a slivery grey Hammerite, I decided to carry the basic early Land Rover colours through the rest of the interior. I went with a similar to the seat colour darkish grey for the carpet and a contrasting light grey in the headliner to add a sense of space and airiness. It makes an early series statement without competing with the colours of the exterior and the curtains. The bottom line is when you are building a Land Rover for long range expedition there is more to think about than recovery gear. You will be living in it for weeks at a time. It helps if it is pleasant and restful to the eye as well as practical. TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site "In the world of type A & type B drivers consider me a type C gypsy traveler. Destinations are optional and not necessarily desirable." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 01 08:51:58 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >>Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just >>plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! > >...but a 235/85 is about 1.5" wider. It's what I have on my IIa and there's >a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a >magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. Rubbing where? Against the frame? adjust your steering stops. My series II is running 165/75/16s. About the same height as a 750/16 bt quite a bit wider. No rubs in the front once the steering stops were adjusted and the rears just polish the vertical strengthening stay of the rear inner wing at maximum upwards articulation. But wasn't the original poster refering to a Disco? TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site "How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare" Amelia Earhart 1898-1937 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:48:46 +0100 From: "Neil Brownlee" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Can we clarify something here, this list, the lro list, it does actually refer to all Land Rovers does it not? Like the uk-lro list does? Or are we being suspension-ist's AGAIN? I mean LRO, LRe and LRW don't do supplements called RRO RRe and RRW do they? Or am I to be banished to the ether because I have one of each and fit no-where?! - ------------------------------------------------------------- Neil 1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet' 1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet' - XD9000i, Terrain Master Winch Bumper & Hi-Lift carrier, Bearmach steering/sump guard, Mantec Side Protection Sills, Scorpion Racing +2" suspension lift, De-Carbon Shocks, Southdown Fuel Tank Guard, 235/85 General Grabber MT's, WH Wheelcarriers Diff Guards 1998 Land Rover Freelander - 'Misty' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: "LRO list" Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! > >>Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just > >>plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! > > > >...but a 235/85 is about 1.5" wider. It's what I have on my IIa and there's > >a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a > >magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. > > Rubbing where? Against the frame? adjust your steering stops. My > series II is running 165/75/16s. About the same height as a 750/16 bt > quite a bit wider. No rubs in the front once the steering stops were > adjusted and the rears just polish the vertical strengthening stay of > the rear inner wing at maximum upwards articulation. > > But wasn't the original poster refering to a Disco? > > TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please > Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - > twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message > > http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale > http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover > http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site > > "How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare" > Amelia Earhart 1898-1937 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:53:32 +0100 From: "Neil Brownlee" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! [REVISED] By the way, that was a general question posted to the list, NOT to individuals, so no-one take it the wrong way ... please! - ------------------------------------------------------------- Neil 1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet' 1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet' - XD9000i, Terrain Master Winch Bumper & Hi-Lift carrier, Bearmach steering/sump guard, Mantec Side Protection Sills, Scorpion Racing +2" suspension lift, De-Carbon Shocks, Southdown Fuel Tank Guard, 235/85 General Grabber MT's, WH Wheelcarriers Diff Guards 1998 Land Rover Freelander - 'Misty' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: "LRO list" Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! > >>Regardless! The stock equivalent for 750X16 is 235/85. LRE is just > >>plain, "POINT BLANK", WRONG!!! > > > >...but a 235/85 is about 1.5" wider. It's what I have on my IIa and there's > >a bit of rubbing at full lock on level ground. That would be enough for a > >magazine to say that it's not a suitable tire. > > Rubbing where? Against the frame? adjust your steering stops. My > series II is running 165/75/16s. About the same height as a 750/16 bt > quite a bit wider. No rubs in the front once the steering stops were > adjusted and the rears just polish the vertical strengthening stay of > the rear inner wing at maximum upwards articulation. > > But wasn't the original poster refering to a Disco? > > TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please > Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - > twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message > > http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale > http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover > http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site > > "How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare" > Amelia Earhart 1898-1937 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:00:56 +0100 From: "Phil Norris" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! I used to have a Citroen 2CV, that had 135/65/16s I think. Wouldn't have called them wide though, TW....!! Nowt like a typo to put a smile on me face!! Brgds PhilN Series IV LWB SW " Rubbing where? Against the frame? adjust your steering stops. My series II is running 165/75/16s. About the same height as a 750/16 but quite a bit wider. " ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:59:47 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Or am I to be banished to the ether because I have one of each and fit no-where?! Neil Well, we might suspect you of inhaling ether, but banishing you heavens no..... This just seems rto be a case of data not being passed along - I fell into the trap on it also. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:32:59 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: LRO: Steering stops was:Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >And if you adjusted the turning stops it wouldn't do that..... Oh. I've got adjustable steering stops? I didn't even know to look. Well then, I'll run off and do that. Thanks! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:37:44 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: LRO: Clutch replacement Well, seeing as how my clutch both drags and slips, I'm thinking that perhaps a replacement might be in order. Remember, this truck sat for a decade before I started working on it. That explains the drag and it's not getting any better with driving. I can't shift into 1st or reverse without putting the transfer case into neutral. So - experienced folks. What else should I replace while I'm in there? Any particular seals or bearings? What bits (clutch plate, pressure plate, etc) should I expect to replace? Keith Tanner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:51:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil What started as a rear heater install has led to removal of my intermediate floor and repainting of my lower interior (the rovers' that is) and spread to replacing my frame to body bolts and efforts to prevent corrosion. It all started with pulling up some glued down carpet padding on my rear right wheel well to mount a heater. I then discovered the floor was painted two different colors (under the body color, I've found four different colors on my 109), and so had some paint mixed up and started stripping out the padding in the cargo area. Since the rest of the lower interior has remnents of carpet adhesive stuck to it, it only seemed natural to move forward.... I recently pulled and refurbished the intermediate floor in my 109SW and found some semi-serious corrosion at the extreme outboard ends of the rearmost support flange for this floor panel. The floor panel is held in place by large screws which screw into steel clips attached to the support flange. The area around the hole where the clip is located on the flange is heavily corroded/nonexistent. I considered going without these two outermost screws, but I've been toying with using coarse thread aluminum machine type screws and some home made aluminum "washers" to just sort of hold things in place, and was wondering if anyone has tried this. The screws are kind of spendy and I wonder if they will just strip out when I tighten them down. I want to stay away from steel fasteners in this location which I guess is susceptible to corrosion because of mud/moisture from the rear wheel, or the lack of grease/oil thrown in the area (no similar extent corrosion on the front intermediate floor support flange). I'd also like to hear from folks on using plastic discs under washers in contact with aluminum, as well as plastic between the tub and the frame mounting tabs? I've noticed the tub tends to corrode not up against the bolt/fastener proper, but rather, under the washer or other steel part, such as rear seat mounts (in one case, it actually penetrated, not at the bolt, but about a quarter inch away, at the edge of a fender washer). Naturally, I'm replacing all my frame to tub fixings in the area and am doing the above with plastic washers. I'm also dousing every bolt with some stuff called LPS-3, which is a waxy/oily stuff I was turned on to by a friend. Any other tips on corrosion prevention since "I'm in there?" I've also pulled the seat frames, seat belt mounts, bac seat grab handle, all of which are being powdercoated, and I've sanded and repainted the top of the front seat box (since I had the frames out!). Next: the front and sides of the front seat box (covered with glue) and the front floors (rotten screws and silicone) and tranny tunnel cover, since I am replacing the shifter. Finally, a POX on anyone who uses silicone on bodywork. Ruined some paintwork I was doing this weekend. The stuff was goobered everywhere on my 109. I thought I'd sanded well enough to remove it, but apparently not. Is there some magic spray on remover for this evil? Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:07:42 -0400 From: Bill Adams Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch replacement Is this a 2a or 3? There are differences that would temper the answer to your question. - -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:15:56 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch replacement Ah, yes. 1967 IIa petrol with the later hydrostatic clutch. I think it's the 9" - correct? Keith At 15:07 30/04/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Is this a 2a or 3? There are differences that would temper the answer to >your question. >-- >Bill Adams >3D & Motion Graphics Design Director >International Broadcasting Bureau >Washington, D.C. >202-205-9638 >badams@ibb.gov > > >'66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel >'81 GoldWing >'69 Le Sabre Convertible >'63 Pearson Vanguard >"Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:18:57 -0400 From: Bill Adams Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters disease/sil Was there a question in there someplace? >From your description, it would seem that the corrosion is already quite extensive and you are worried about dissimilar metals? if you really want to avoid a bodge job, buy new or solid replacement parts and you won't have to cobble it up as bad as it was before you started. Galvanized steel fasteners are acceptable in this application as well as zinc chromate, stainless steel. As to corrosion prevention: Always park in a garage move to the sunshine belt powerwash the underside after every mud run - -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:27:05 EDT From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch replacement - --part1_6e.a20b928.281f1689_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/30/01 1:49:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keith@miata.net writes: > Well, seeing as how my clutch both drags and slips, I'm thinking that > perhaps a replacement might be in order. Remember, this truck sat for a > decade before I started working on it. That explains the drag and it's not > getting any better with driving. I can't shift into 1st or reverse without > putting the transfer case into neutral. > > I would suspect a sheared off pin in the linkage (where it enters the bellhousing) is the cause of your drag problem. With the Rover hydraulic clutch mechanism, I don't think a worn clutch would give you drag--unless the pressure plate has broken springs. Worn out disk is usually a slippage problem. BUT if you're replacing the clutch, take out the flywheel and have it checked for flatness and possibly resurfaced (machine shop job), replace the pilot bushing (cheap to replace as long as you're there) and check the ring gear for broken off or badly worn teeth--replace if necessary (better than having to go back in there in a few months when it won't start with the starter) Nate - --part1_6e.a20b928.281f1689_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/30/01 1:49:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keith@miata.net
writes:


Well, seeing as how my clutch both drags and slips, I'm thinking that
perhaps a replacement might be in order. Remember, this truck sat for a
decade before I started working on it. That explains the drag and it's not
getting any better with driving. I can't shift into 1st or reverse without
putting the transfer case into neutral.



I would suspect a sheared off pin in the linkage (where it enters the
bellhousing) is the cause of your drag problem.  With the Rover hydraulic
clutch mechanism, I don't think a worn clutch would give you drag--unless the
pressure plate has broken springs.  Worn out disk is usually a slippage
problem.

BUT if you're replacing the clutch, take out the flywheel and have it checked
for flatness and possibly resurfaced (machine shop job), replace the pilot
bushing (cheap to replace as long as you're there) and check the ring gear
for broken off or badly worn teeth--replace if necessary (better than having
to go back in there in a few months when it won't start with the starter)

Nate - --part1_6e.a20b928.281f1689_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 01 12:39:39 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! >Can we clarify something here, this list, the lro list, it does actually >refer to all Land Rovers does it not? Like the uk-lro list does? Or are we >being suspension-ist's AGAIN? We are suspension-ists still. The world wide LRO list is intended for leaf sprung Land Rovers, and the RRO mail list is intended for coil sprung LRs. The two vehicle types are different enough that most postings about one has no relavence to the other. The volume was high enough the list was split several years ago. >Or am I to be banished to the ether because I have one of each and fit >no-where?! No that means you can enjoy both because you have both. The division was never neant to bash one type or the other, just to make more postings more relevent to the members of each lists. Just decide that you own the best of both worlds and don't pay attention to the nay sayers TeriAnn http://www.overlander.net The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 20:58:02 +0100 From: "Neil Brownlee" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Righty ho! So, and this is a bit of an odd question I guess, there are a multitude of things that can be discussed on either list (and are!), but anything pertaining to standard suspension, standard engines etc is a no-no? And I'd just like to point out one thing, not all Discovery/RR(C)/RR(NS)/D90/D110/90/110 worry about CD players, cigarette lighters, cup holders and turtle wax....most of us are still cursed with Lucas Price Of Darkness remember!!! ...in point of fact, there is at least ONE Discovery in Australia that has leaf springs......what would that guy do?!!!!! This is of course going no-where, I'm just rambling, but I like to be sure that I understand!! We programmers are like that, funny old breed! Looking forward to May 6th though....first LR gathering in months at Gaydon. Should be most enjoyable....it'll be the cleanest gathering ever by all accounts, as we've all finally managed to get those little "round tuits" sorted, and I'm sure no LR has seen *real* mud for ages!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------- Neil 1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet' 1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet' - XD9000i, Terrain Master Winch Bumper & Hi-Lift carrier, Bearmach steering/sump guard, Mantec Side Protection Sills, Scorpion Racing +2" suspension lift, De-Carbon Shocks, Southdown Fuel Tank Guard, 235/85 General Grabber MT's, WH Wheelcarriers Diff Guards 1998 Land Rover Freelander - 'Misty' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:48:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di [SJH] Bill Adams wrote Was there a question in there someplace? [SJH] Yeah, actually Bill there were a couple. Mostly, I was looking for useful suggestions. Telling me to use steel fasteners was not what i was looking for. If reading comprehension were your strong suit, you would have seen I stated a desire to avoid steel fasteners in two spots where the fastner holes are gone due to the steel clips and screws reacting with the aluminum. As I said, I was looking for useful suggestions, but thanks for your response anyway! Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:01:45 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Clutch replacement >I would suspect a sheared off pin in the linkage (where it enters the >bellhousing) is the cause of your drag problem. My suspicion is that the disc is contaminated, rusted and generally damaged due to the decade of disuse. At least, that's what various writings online and in magazines had led me to expect. Even with the pushrod adjusted for maximum travel I can't get it completely disengaged. The slippage is probably due to the clutch heating up while dragging - that's my guess, anyhow. I'll see if I can inspect the linkage tonight. Thanks for the suggestions on the other bits. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 19:16:39 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: Brake Drum Removal Colin writes: There is only 1 screw on mine (The fronts have three). There is a > >second > > > >hole, I'll try a bolt and see if that helps.<<< sounds like you've got 110/Ninety rear drums, they only have one screw (well mine does). When you get the thing off count how many threaded holes there are inside. I shouldn't worry too much, most of the people I know give up on all the screws after a while. The wheel holds the hubs on! Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:08:15 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: Another Impossible Thing? And Malta! Neil writes: Can we clarify something here, this list, the lro list, it does actually > refer to all Land Rovers does it not? Like the uk-lro list does? <<< er, actually it doesn't Neil. This list is for leafers or for the few coilers (like me) who just like to read and write about real Land Rovers, not about 'how do I get my CD changer to work' The lists split up years ago. I'm sure some of our US listers will explain the full story to you. I understand, from what I have read over the past few years, that is was not pretty. This is, primarily, a US list and I think it is for us 'outsiders' to accept what went on before. I originally joined all the lists - it didn't take me long to drop the one for coilers - but you will find that if you have a coiled Land Rover that you use properly (as I know you do) you will be welcome. I certainly have been as have others with Range Rovers and Discos, Nineties and 110s. The uk list is for any Land Rover product - but this list is (mainly) not. BTW there is a rule about not cross posting - and this subject has been posted to both the uk-lro and the lro list... Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:21:01 -0400 From: Bill Adams Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck all by yourself asshole. - -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:31:46 +0100 From: "Neil Brownlee" Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Drat! Time for the bunker again guys........ - ------------------------------------------------------------- Neil 1978 Land Rover Series III 109" Ex-MOD - 'Harriet' 1997 Land Rover Discovery V8i ES - 'Piglet' - XD9000i, Terrain Master Winch Bumper & Hi-Lift carrier, Bearmach steering/sump guard, Mantec Side Protection Sills, Scorpion Racing +2" suspension lift, De-Carbon Shocks, Southdown Fuel Tank Guard, 235/85 General Grabber MT's, WH Wheelcarriers Diff Guards 1998 Land Rover Freelander - 'Misty' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Adams" To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:21 PM Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di > Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck > all by yourself asshole. > -- > Bill Adams > 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director > International Broadcasting Bureau > Washington, D.C. > 202-205-9638 > badams@ibb.gov > > > '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel > '81 GoldWing > '69 Le Sabre Convertible > '63 Pearson Vanguard > "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:32:00 EDT From: Sjust1925@aol.com Subject: LRO: Mountney Limited Web page or Ordering info. . . - --part1_92.13d4c302.281f25c0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if Mountney Limited has a web page where you can place an order or do they have a US distributor? Thanks Scott Just Rochester Hills, MI '68 109 - --part1_92.13d4c302.281f25c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know if Mountney Limited has a web page where you can place an
order or do they have a US distributor?
Thanks
Scott Just
Rochester Hills, MI
'68  109 - --part1_92.13d4c302.281f25c0_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:39:22 -0400 From: Bill Adams Subject: LRO: Whoops! OOPS, My apologies, that was meant to go off list. - -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 01 13:45:17 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Zowie Bill! My inbox was sizzling and my jaw dropped. >Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck >all by yourself asshole. >-- >Bill Adams TeriAnn and a virtual Lacy Too on the web http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/Dogs/LacyToo.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 13:49:26 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: RE: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Bill, Restrain yourself. Simon was reacting to your usual salty language in a fairly benign fashion. His post may have been long but you're routinely rude. You've gone over the top at this point. Come back when you feel like playing nice. Bryan 62 88 70 109 - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Adams [mailto:badams@IBB.GOV] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:21 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck all by yourself asshole. - -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:54:48 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Hi All-- Bill Adams wrote: > > Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck > all by yourself asshole. > Hey, can I ask that people involved in pissing contests please quote each other so that us innocent bystanders know who to avoid here? I don't want to be splattered. That means both the pisser and the pissee, please. Context, context, context. Thank you. -ly y'rs, Ivan - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:11:09 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di It's "dude" and not "dood" and hey let's keep the language clean. Isn't this is supposed to be a family show after all? I think Simon was just looking for a little guidance in a topic that is often shrouded in confusion and certainly that sort of response is a little strong to say the least. If Simon wanted to go off and screw his truck up I do not think he would have asked any questions to begin with. And I think I am safe in speaking for most of us out here. Now lets all shake hands and get on with the business at hand. And if you kids can't get along I'll have to separate you two. ..."Don't make me pull this car over, if I do you kids will never get to Disneyland."... a scene from my childhood ;-] Rich - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Adams To: Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di > Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck > all by yourself asshole. > -- > Bill Adams > 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director > International Broadcasting Bureau > Washington, D.C. > 202-205-9638 > badams@ibb.gov > > > '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel > '81 GoldWing > '69 Le Sabre Convertible > '63 Pearson Vanguard > "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:09:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Golly. I had to read that one over a few times. Now Bill. Play nice. Such a temper. I'm actually Un-fouling it up, and trying to stop corrosion. Did I ever say I didn't intend to have the corrosion repaired? I just can't have it done now and the corrosion is pretty minimal. I haven't done anything other than clean up, sand and paint, and I'm having painted parts powdercoated because they were covered with old, alligatored paint I didn't feel like sanding off. Sandblasting and powdercoating made more sense to me. If a later owner wants to undo it, he or she can do what I did and remove the parts have them blasted and paint them. As far as your statement regarding my attitude is concerned, ever heard the phrase about the pot calling the kettle black? How about doing everyone else on the list a favor and directing profanity and misspelled slang terms at me offlist? Probably should have deleted that autosig before you hit send don't you think? I do tend to get better advice locally and through friends than I do from this list (with a few notable exceptions like Rich Williams, who replied this morning offlist, Bryan Hoult, and Kona Peter), so I will consider your suggestion that I go improve my truck by myself. Have a Great Day :) maybe you should go home early and go "rench." Sorry folks. Simon Harding -----Original Message----- From: Bill Adams [SMTP:badams@IBB.GOV] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 4:21 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: Re: LRO: corrosion issues/shipfitters di Dood, with attitude like that, you'll get ZERO. Go fuck up your truck all by yourself asshole. -- Bill Adams 3D & Motion Graphics Design Director International Broadcasting Bureau Washington, D.C. 202-205-9638 badams@ibb.gov '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:15:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: Whoops! I understand. Its so easy to hit send. Simon Harding '66 Land Rover 109 SW Diesel '81 GoldWing '69 Le Sabre Convertible '63 Pearson Vanguard "Practicing the ancient art of ren-ching" ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 2001 17:10:25 -0500 From: george kase Subject: LRO: Crank Pulley/Tap/Swivel? Just starting to figure out what's wrong/right with the 64 SeriesIIA 2.25 petrol) I just bought...and I see a big chunk missing from the crankshaft pulley. Anyone got one they want to part with please contact me off list... Also, can anyone direct me to an archive version of the "front seal cover tapping" instructions that were discussed last week... I guess I'll be doing that as well when I pull off the pulley. Also, is there a way to buff off pitting/corrosion from the swivel balls or is that a "must replace"situation? thanks in advance... George Kase Chicago USA ------------------------------ Date: 30 Apr 2001 17:12:30 -0500 From: george kase Subject: LRO: Crank pulley/tap/swivel? Just starting to figure out what's wrong/right with the 64 SeriesIIA 2.25 petrol) I just bought...and I see a big chunk missing from the crankshaft pulley. Anyone got one they want to part with please contact me off list... Also, can anyone direct me to an archive version of the "front seal cover tapping" instructions that were discussed last week... I guess I'll be doing that as well when I pull off the pulley. Also, is there a way to buff off pitting/corrosion from the swivel balls or is that a "must replace"situation? thanks in advance... George Kase Chicago USA ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #363 **********************************************