From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Wed Apr 25 10:53:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3PEreN13377 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:53:40 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3PDnvg23909 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3PDnu823906 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01623 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3PD8fA23483 for lro-digest-gone; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:08:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:08:41 -0400 Message-Id: <200104251308.f3PD8fA23483@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #355 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 355 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:07:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: Always behind-garden slugs I haven't followed this thread but it seems to have evolved into a discussion of how to dissuade slugs. I do battle with the little devils every year from the time the hostas come up in Spring, to the dying days of fall. Slugs understand only one thing: pain and death, well ok, two things. Unleash the hounds: eggshells or anything similar - imagine walking on broken glass - I've heard coffee grounds work the same). salt (but sparingly, because it builds up in soil, beer in dishes is a waste of time. It works, but must be attended to daily. Corry's makes a good barrier product which is supposed to be safe. I think it originated in england but I'm not sure. Copper strips work, but the slugs will go under it if it is out of contact with the ground. Hand picking and salting are quite satisfying. Napalm is a final option. Simon CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any attachments to it, or to take any action based on them. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of this message. Simon J. Harding Attorney at Law Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. 503.223.4131 sharding@schulte-law.com -----Original Message----- From: FHY [SMTP:FHYap@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 9:00 AM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; mendo_recce@fourfold.org Subject: Re: Always behind-garden slugs I've heard the snails won't cross broken egg shells. I've tried it and it seems to work. Frank KC wrote: > ...I am wondering if a > path of baking soda around the garden would also act as a natural barrier. > If I were a slug, I think I wouldn't like crossing it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:36:09 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle Because I have I.am/landrover, and one day I went through all the available names to see what other land rover pages there were. Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > You know something, I really had forgoten about that. > I'll see if I can find a password for setting it again. > 'Never did nothing with that. Well, maybe the time is now. > > Now you tell me something Jim, How come you DO know about that site? You > keep a secret database on all of us? > :-) > > Luis M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Hall > To: > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle > > But you have a web page. Perhaps you got it a long time ago and forgot > about it. http://go.to/landrover or > http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/1886/index.html Or else there is > another Gutierrez in Costa Rica who likes Land Rovers. > > Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > > > In this precise moment I have one in my hands.Its a little dark but the > > setting is ok (in the middle of a cloud forest reserve. I think I even > have > > it scanned somewhere. > > What I dont have is time to make a web page for it. > > Anyone with room for it? > > > > Luis M. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jim Hall > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:27 PM > > Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle > > > > Speaking of pictures, when are you going to put some up of your rover > > Luis? > > > > Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > > > > > I'm sorry JL. I think I was the first to ask for pictures a while > ago.... > > > > > > :-] > > > > > > Luis M. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Jean-Leon Morin > > > > > > > Jeeze, I really don't know when all this hype is about... > > > > > > > > Valdez is... > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 13/04/01 > > > > -- > > Jim Hall > > 1966 88" Elephant Chaser > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo > > "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling > > with Jim." Mitch Stockdale > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 13/04/01 > > -- > Jim Hall > 1966 88" Elephant Chaser > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo > "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling > with Jim." Mitch Stockdale > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 14/04/01 - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:54:02 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? I'm not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the only component of my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced since owning the thing. And as I am planning a longer than normal trip soon I'd like to be prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my weakest link. A friend gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts to do the work. My green bible is a little sketchy on removing the assembly. Any trick to it? TIA Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: 24 Apr 2001 14:58:44 PDT From: Casey McMullen Subject: Re: LRO: sIII gearbox troubles Thanks for the thorough email DaveB. I just got a package from BP with all kinds of fun toothy, rolly, springy things. When I went back and looked at the 1/2 shifter fork it was obviously worn, good call. All the clutch parts are waiting as well. Good thing too, the fingers on the pressure plate are totally worn and ready to break. Casey BTW, remember me from the ROVERS Assateague trip a few years ago, red 88 soft top? DaveB wrote: > --- Casey McMullen wrote: > > 1) The steel syncro teeth on 1st and 2nd gears are worn, not allowing > > the > > syncros to mate, both gears should be replaced. > > 2) A slightly loose mainshaft nut allowed play in the shaft, probably > > exacerbating the previous item. (I have the tool now) > > 3) Mainshaft bearings could be worn (they seem fine to me). > > 4) During the rebuild, mismatched gear sets were used. > > Well, I don't live anywhere near Mountain View, so I can't see the > parts, but it goes without saying- despite which I will say it anyway- > that any gears which show wear as you have described should be > replaced. They certainly are not going to get any better. It wouldn't > hurt to replace the 1/2 synchro hub while you're at it. It's safe to > assume the wear has occured there as well, since it's teeth (splines > actually) have to mate with the ones on the gears. Look at the drive > teeth inside the 3/4 synchro, most I've seen that have any sort of > mileage tend to be worn quite a ways through, and they are thin to > begin with. You may want to order a new 1/2 shift fork, wear in them > can cause popping out of gear. Just look for scoring on yours or > compare it to the new one. Also replace all the detent balls. Replace > the thrust washer for 3rd gear, and all the bushings. (1st and 2/3) > leave reverse alone unless it shows visible wear, same with the > layshaft. The only gears in a Series III 'box that come as matched sets > are the input shaft and layshaft constant speed gear (4th gear > essentially). the reason for this being that the layshaft is one solid > piece so there is no chance of using matched sets unless you replace > all the gears at once. > FWIW, I rebuilt my SIII box 5 years ago, because it popped out of 1st > almost all the time. Which would be scary on a steep descent. I tried > several times to tighten the mainshaft rear nut and also to adjust the > shift fork closer to 1st gear on its control rod. But none of it worked > and adjusting the shift fork only succeeded in making 2nd gear pop out > as well. Recently, after letting someone try to learn stickshift > driving on ym SIII, 2nd gear started popping out again. I remembered > that when I rebuilt the box the first time, I adjusted the shift fork > all the way towards 1st gear. So I popped the cover off and moved the > shift fork closer to the middle of its range of position. This actually > fixed the problem. But the shift fork was worn a bit where my friend > tried to jam it into gear against a reluctant synchro. The reluctant > synchro in my case being caused by somewhat amateurish installation of > the gearbox that presumably cause some fault in the flywheel pilot bush > to input shaft interface. So the gearbox can be a bit grabby. Given all > this and having just re-read your message, I would say definitely get a > new shift fork and compare them. I doubt yours is still good after all > that attempting to force the gear lever. Since you have the thing apart > and the gears etc are worn, I would go ahead and replace any parts > whose surface has been disfigured in any way. A little polish on the > running surfaces of gear teeth is ok, and expected. But pitting, > scoring, chips, rounded syncro teeth, bluing, rust, etc. mean those > parts are done for. > > When you replace the gearbox into the truck, take some the time to have > the flywheel checked for flatness and machined if necessary (about 20 > bucks or so when I did mine), replace the flywheel bush, which should > be soaked in 90 weight overnight if at all possible, and replace the > clutch disc as a matter of course unless it has under, say 10k miles, > and the pressure plate if it has any surface discoloration or wear, or > wear on the fingers where the throwout bearing rides. Replac ethat as > well, RN sotcks a newer type wehre the beairng is more positively > locked to it's sleeve, I have seen the old type seperate, which is bad. > Replace the staple that holds that in place, and check the plastic > socket in the release fork, and replace the pushrod clip and check the > length of the pushrod. > > When you actually put the gearbox in, use 4 pieces of 3/8 coarse thread > rod about 6" longt threaded into the engine's flywheel housing, at 10, > 2 4 and 8 o'clock positions. Assuming you've properly centered the > clutch disc and p.plate on the flywheel, *lightly* grease the splines > on the input shaft. This helps the disc move around the way it should; > too much though will spit out onto the disc and ruin it. USe the four > pieces of threaded rod to help align the gearbox properly to the > engine, which by the way should be blocked up by a 3/4" piece of wood > on top of the bellhouisng crossmember. Ease the box toward the > flywheel, and when you feel the splines trying to engage, you can put > the box in gear and turn the handbrake until it slides home. Try not > using the threaded rod or bellhousing nuts to suck the two units > together, they are powerful enough to casue damage to the pilot bush. > You cna get the box almost all the way in most of the time if you are > patient and gentle and have a lifting setup that makes it fairly easy > to tilt the box backward or forward. I've done it with a 2 x 4 across > between the roof channels over the doors and a come along, and a simple > rope sling. > > happy rebuilding > dave ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:24:06 -0600 From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump At 17:54 24/04/01 -0400, RON WARD, wrote >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? Yes that's it, but getting at those two nuts can be an exercise in inventing new words. When I did it recently I couldn't seem to slip a socket over either one of them, probably because of the buildup of grease crud and it didn't help that I was essentially working by touch because they are on the underside of the pump housing. If you can't get at those two then the alternative way is to remove the bolts holding the side cover to the engine. The Haynes manual says there are five but there were in fact six on mine, one buried bottom centre where I couldn't see it. I also found that the six bolts come in three lengths so mark where they come from in case this length business is important. Once I had the pump off it was easy to see how the socket should have gone in order to pull the two pump nuts, even easier after I cleaned the crud off them. I found the overhaul instructions in the Green book quite good once I'd figured out how to get the pump off. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:28:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Yes, those and the fuel lines. One of the nuts, I think the forward one, is a little tricky to access. Be prepared for some roadside oil leakage. Check the rebuild kit for completeness. One I obtained was missing a part and had to be swapped. Also, there is one part, can't recall which, that is nla. Simon CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any attachments to it, or to take any action based on them. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of this message. Simon J. Harding Attorney at Law Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. 503.223.4131 sharding@schulte-law.com -----Original Message----- From: RON WARD [SMTP:ronward@synovustrust.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 5:54 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? I'm not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the only component of my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced since owning the thing. And as I am planning a longer than normal trip soon I'd like to be prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my weakest link. A friend gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts to do the work. My green b ble is a little sketchy on removing the assembly. Any trick to it? TIA Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:51:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: RE: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump yah pretty much have to use open end wrenches on these, at a minimum one of them simply will not provide clearance for a socket. And if memory serves, there's a small radius of motion allowed, so removing the nuts takes a bit of time. Simon -----Original Message----- From: SJH Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:28 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: LRO: RE: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Yes, those and the fuel lines. One of the nuts, I think the forward one, is a little tricky to access. Be prepared for some roadside oil leakage. Check the rebuild kit for completeness. One I obtained was missing a part and had to be swapped. Also, there is one part, can't recall which, that is nla. Simon CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any attachments to it, or to take any action based on them. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of this message. Simon J. Harding Attorney at Law Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. 503.223.4131 sharding@schulte-law.com -----Original Message----- From: RON WARD [SMTP:ronward@synovustrust.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 5:54 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? I'm not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the only component of my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced since owning the thing. And as I am planning a longer than normal trip soon I'd like to be prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my weakest link. A friend gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts to do the work. My green b ble is a little sketchy on removing the assembly. Any trick to it? TIA Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 01 17:39:22 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? I'm >not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the only component of >my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced since owning the thing. > And as I am planning a longer than normal trip soon I'd like to be >prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my weakest link. A friend >gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts to do the work. My green >bible is a little sketchy on removing the assembly. > >Any trick to it? One other item. You need to remove the two tubes as well as the two bolts. But yes it is as simple as it seems. There is one confusing item. The replacment diaphrams have the metal parts assembled slightly different than the older diaphrams & the illustration in the manual. Don't worry about the differences and assemble it the only way it will go on. Oh and it's best to reassemble the top & bottom in the same orientation So either mark it before seperating the top from the bottom or remember how it goes. Well maybe it is a tiensy less obvious that it initally seemed but that's only because the factory in Turkey is assembling the diaphram wrong and since it works onyway the Rover people don't seem to be interested in correcting their supplier. Oh and don't remove or loosen the glass sediment bowl unless you have a new rubber gasket on hand. The rubber gasket hardens and will not reseal once it is hardened. So if a new sediment bowl gasket is not part of the kit, get one and add it to the kit. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:42:01 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, RON WARD wrote: :On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the :two (2) nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the :engine? I'm not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the :only component of my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced :since owning the thing. And as I am planning a longer than normal trip :soon I'd like to be prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my :weakest link. A friend gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts :to do the work. My green bible is a little sketchy on removing the :assembly. : :Any trick to it? : Short open ended wrenches, as the little nuts are rather awkward. I carry a complete spare pump -- it's much quicker to remove the old one, install the new one, and rebuild the old one at home then it is to remove the old one, rebuild it and reinstall it. It's invariably raining or snowing when I have to do road or trailside repairs. (It's zero fun to replace a brake flex hose in sub zero weather!) I've also had a fuel pump fail in a catostrophic, non-rebuildable way. It sprang a whole the size of a quarter in the casting. There's also a seal that's not in the rebuild kit. I've no idea why, as it's a user replacable part. You don't want to find these things out far from home. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:53:19 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump 2 tubes? The fuel lines? >>> twakeman@cruzers.com 04/24/01 20:44 PM >>> >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? I'm >not having a problem (yet) with the pump, but it is the only component of >my stock truck that I have not rebuilt or replaced since owning the thing. > And as I am planning a longer than normal trip soon I'd like to be >prepared to tackle a roadside failure of this my weakest link. A friend >gave me a pump rebuild kit, so I have the parts to do the work. My green >bible is a little sketchy on removing the assembly. > >Any trick to it? One other item. You need to remove the two tubes as well as the two bolts. But yes it is as simple as it seems. There is one confusing item. The replacment diaphrams have the metal parts assembled slightly different than the older diaphrams & the illustration in the manual. Don't worry about the differences and assemble it the only way it will go on. Oh and it's best to reassemble the top & bottom in the same orientation So either mark it before seperating the top from the bottom or remember how it goes. Well maybe it is a tiensy less obvious that it initally seemed but that's only because the factory in Turkey is assembling the diaphram wrong and since it works onyway the Rover people don't seem to be interested in correcting their supplier. Oh and don't remove or loosen the glass sediment bowl unless you have a new rubber gasket on hand. The rubber gasket hardens and will not reseal once it is hardened. So if a new sediment bowl gasket is not part of the kit, get one and add it to the kit. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, alifornia Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 20:57:00 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Well, I got to looking around mine last night and with the air cleaner, and dryer vent hose to the heater blower removed, access is still tough. I wiped down the crud on the nuts and got an open-ended spanner on both (didn't turn them, just fit to size). I suppose I will order a main pump body seal and check on a replacement pump for my spares kit. Thanks for your help. >>> rgrant@cadvision.com 04/24/01 18:32 PM >>> At 17:54 24/04/01 -0400, RON WARD, wrote >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? Yes that's it, but getting at those two nuts can be an exercise in inventing new words. When I did it recently I couldn't seem to slip a socket over either one of them, probably because of the buildup of grease crud and it didn't help that I was essentially working by touch because they are on the underside of the pump housing. If you can't get at those two then the alternative way is to remove the bolts holding the side cover to the engine. The Haynes manual says there are five but there were in fact six on mine, one buried bottom centre where I couldn't see it. I also found that the six bolts come in three lengths so mark where they come from in case this length business is important. Once I had the pump off it was easy to see how the socket should have gone in order to pull the two pump nuts, even easier after I cleaned the crud off them. I found the overhaul instructions in the Green book quite good once I'd figured out how to get the pump off. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgay Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:53:30 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: RE: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Be sure to check the rebuild kit for quality too. I had a BM kit where both replacement valves leaked so badly that the pump would not function. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:04:14 -0400 From: "Eric Mang" Subject: LRO: Re: Weber 34ICH Installation help This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0CD0A.80074120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weber 34ICH Installation helpKeith, I feel your pain. I did the conversion myself and did a bunch of head = scratching and mumbling trying to figure out the linkage problem too.=20 I finally did the reversing procedure, but then, to get the spring = action to work right, I just found a place to hook it, and it worked. = Not very scientific, but it works. Sorry I can't give you any more = detail on what I did... Just know that someone out there understands = your confusion. Eric Mang '63 Series IIa "Swamp Thing" ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keith Elliott=20 To: 'lro@works.team.net'=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:41 PM Subject: LRO: Weber 34ICH Installation help Hi Everyone...=20 I'm sure that someone here has installed a weber on a 2.25 that = used to have a Solex right... Well I have installed mine and for the = life of me I cannot figure out how to get the linkage to work properly = (ie. pull down instead of push up). People I have asked have told me = that the linkage has to be reversed, which makes perfect sense but when = I try and do it I get very confused. I have reversed the lever = (bellcrank?) that is connected to the arm that comes from the pedal = (does this make any sense already?!?!?!) so now the arm connects to it = at the top instead of the bottom. I think that this is right, it is the = other lever that has the bend in it and connects to the throttle lever = of the carb that I can't figure out. there is a sprint that connects to = this lever and then to the cap at the end. When I turn this lever around = I can't put the spring on and when I finally did figure out how to put = the spring on the spring was pulling the wrong way on the lever which = didn't look right... See what I mean I am completely confused!!!!=20 HELP=20 Thanks=20 Keith=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0CD0A.80074120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Weber 34ICH Installation help
Keith,
 
I feel your pain. I did the conversion = myself and=20 did a bunch of head scratching and mumbling trying to figure out the = linkage=20 problem too.
 
I finally did the reversing procedure, = but then, to=20 get the spring action to work right, I just found a place to hook it, = and it=20 worked. Not very scientific, but it works. Sorry I can't give you any = more=20 detail on what I did... Just know that someone out there understands = your=20 confusion.
 
Eric Mang
'63 Series IIa
"Swamp Thing"
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Keith=20 Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 = 3:41=20 PM
Subject: LRO: Weber 34ICH = Installation=20 help

Hi Everyone... =

   I'm sure = that someone=20 here has installed a weber on a 2.25 that used to have a Solex = right... Well I=20 have installed mine and for the life of me I cannot figure out how to = get the=20 linkage to work properly (ie. pull down instead of push up). People I = have=20 asked have told me that the linkage has to be reversed, which makes = perfect=20 sense but when I try and do it I get very confused. I have reversed = the lever=20 (bellcrank?) that is connected to the arm that comes from the pedal = (does this=20 make any sense already?!?!?!) so now the arm connects to it at the top = instead=20 of the bottom. I think that this is right, it is the other lever that = has the=20 bend in it and connects to the throttle lever of the carb that I can't = figure=20 out. there is a sprint that connects to this lever and then to the cap = at the=20 end. When I turn this lever around I can't put the spring on and when = I=20 finally did figure out how to put the spring on the spring was pulling = the=20 wrong way on the lever which didn't look right...

See what I mean I am = completely=20 confused!!!!

HELP

Thanks
Keith

- ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01C0CD0A.80074120-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:04:44 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: :Oh and don't remove or loosen the glass sediment bowl unless you have a :new rubber gasket on hand. The rubber gasket hardens and will not reseal :once it is hardened. So if a new sediment bowl gasket is not part of the :kit, get one and add it to the kit. I just checked. The gasket for the sediment bowl is identical to one I've got in a kit of random faucet rubber thingies. I've got no idea what sort of faucet it might be for, but it does mean that your favorite hardware place will have one, for next to nothing. I don't know if would stand up to gasoline, but it's better than nothing. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:10:18 -0400 From: William L Leacock Subject: LRO: Door top studs Scott, to access the broken stud, cut a hole in the inside of the door top, this enables access to repalce the stud if it has broken inside the door top. If the stud has broken outside the top, simply weld a stud extender on the broken end. Regards from Western New York State Bill Leacock. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:07:03 -0400 From: William L Leacock Subject: LRO: Lightweight tops Peter; The hard tops and truck cabs fitted to lightweights are standard series 2/3 units. The lightweight body is slightly narrower than the standard series. In the case of the hard top the sides spring in at the doords and at the rear there is a slight overhang, perhaps a quarter to a half inch per side. In the case of the truck cab, the cabv width is reduced by drilling out the spot welds between the rear stiffening strip and the curved end stiffening strips, this permits the ends to bend slightly to make the sides align and the doors close. I have personally performed this operation several times. The Rover Co did it too. Regards from Western New York State Bill Leacock. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:17:16 -0400 From: William L Leacock Subject: LRO: solex webber conversion Keith The carb linkage is different between the solex and the Zenith which require opposite crank motions to operate. . The crank arm and spring should be changed. It is possible to modify the solex arm, and to use the old spring, but the function is poor, the spring operates by unwinding and rewinding, rather than winding and returning to shape, Regards from Western New York State Bill Leacock. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:07:00 EDT From: HeirPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Lightweight tops - --part1_32.140e6624.28179954_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/24/01 10:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, roverbilly@juno.com writes: > In the case of the truck cab, the cabv width is reduced by > drilling out the spot welds between the rear stiffening strip and the > curved end stiffening strips, this permits the ends to bend slightly to > Bill, Sounds like a neat way to do the job. I am currently preping my pickup cab to fit my Lightweight and plan to install it this coming weekend. The 1/4" to 1/2" on each side is about what I came up with too. Thanks for the tips. Best, Tony ANTHONY D. MILLER & Co. ~ The Tintype Artist ~ Ambrotypes & Ferrotypes 34 Perryfalls Place Baltimore, Maryland 21236 410-256-7442 www.tintype-artist.com - --part1_32.140e6624.28179954_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/24/01 10:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
roverbilly@juno.com writes:


In the case of the truck cab, the cabv width is reduced by
drilling out the spot welds between the rear stiffening strip and the
curved end stiffening strips, this permits the ends to bend slightly to
make the sides align and the doors close.


Bill,
Sounds like a neat way to do the job. I am currently preping my pickup cab to
fit my Lightweight and plan to install it this coming weekend. The 1/4" to
1/2" on each side is about what I came up with too.
Thanks for the tips.
Best,
Tony

ANTHONY D. MILLER & Co.
       ~ The Tintype Artist ~
     Ambrotypes & Ferrotypes
          34 Perryfalls Place
   Baltimore, Maryland 21236
                410-256-7442
      www.tintype-artist.com
- --part1_32.140e6624.28179954_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:59:44 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Weber 34ICH Installation help > I'm sure that someone here has installed a weber on a 2.25 that used to > have a Solex right... Well I have installed mine and for the life of me I > cannot figure out how to get the linkage to work properly (ie. pull down > instead of push up). People I have asked have told me that the linkage has > to be reversed, which makes perfect sense but when I try and do it I get > very confused. Aloha Keith. Take a look at the carb linkage section in my tech articles section www.aloharovers/linkage.htm Let me know if this doesn't work for you Best of luck Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:03:55 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Lightweight tops > Peter; > The hard tops and truck cabs fitted to lightweights are standard series > 2/3 units. Thanks Bill. I have been thinking about maybe doing a lightweight as my next project. Think the pickup topped ones look sweet. Also wanted to make sure the frame was close to the 88 so I coud fab one if required. Thinking about maybe a buggy suspension :-) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:50:41 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Hi-Lift or Jack-All mounting brackets Anyone know of an on-line source for these little brackets used to mount the hi-lift jack? TIA Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:14:20 -0400 From: "Alex Maiolo" Subject: LRO: Re: Hi-Lift or Jack-All mounting brackets Any Tractor or Farm Supply shop Alex Maiolo Chapel Hill NC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "RON WARD" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: LRO: Hi-Lift or Jack-All mounting brackets > Anyone know of an on-line source for these little brackets used to mount the hi-lift jack? > > TIA > > Ron Ward > ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #355 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Wed Apr 25 17:41:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3PLfYN14881 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:41:34 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3PKbti15065 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3PKbt815062 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26494 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3PJgxj29639 for lro-digest-gone; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:42:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:42:59 -0400 Message-Id: <200104251942.f3PJgxj29639@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #356 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 356 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Apr 2001 07:25:26 -0700 From: Bryan Hoult Subject: Re: LRO: Hi-Lift or Jack-All mounting brackets http://www.central4wd.com They are under Hi Lift Jack Co. in the company selection box. Look for the 4xRac item. You can add it to your cart for $22.50. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" On Wed, 25 April 2001, "RON WARD" wrote: > > Anyone know of an on-line source for these little brackets used to mount the hi-lift jack? > > TIA > > Ron Ward ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:28:09 -0400 From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump "RON WARD" >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? >Any trick to it? Yeah, one...there are two bolts...with two nuts on the *inside* of the side cover plate....or at least that's how I remember it. I've always removed the six bolts and the whole side cover. If one of these nuts were to drop out, you could be in a hell of a hurt in a hurry if it didn't drop directly into the sump. The last time I had the pump out, I toyed with the idea of tack welding the two nuts to the plate. Mark the halves of the pump with a screwdriver, scratch awl or somesuch before disassembly. TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >Oh and don't remove or loosen the glass sediment bowl unless you have a >new rubber gasket on hand. The rubber gasket hardens and will not reseal >once it is hardened. So if a new sediment bowl gasket is not part of the >kit, get one and add it to the kit. The best place to store this sediment bowl is next to the bottle of 'emergency' single malt most Rover owners also carry in the spares kit.... Cheers *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----* | | | A. P. ("Sandy") Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 | | www.roav.org | | (original owner) (pre-production) | *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:32:44 -0400 From: "James G.Wolf" Subject: LRO: RE: slugs try ash: wood, coal, volcanic you name it they won't cross it. We tried beer and had a small disgusting problem with the dogs, need I go on? Also diatomicauous (sp?) earth sold for fish tank filters. We use anything but poision. Jim Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:24:35 -0700 From: debrown@srpnet.com Subject: LRO: Off topic mechanics advice needed Friends - I have a problem that I'd like to request advice from you mechanic types. It's not Rover related, so rather then plug up the LR list please respond to me off list. I have a '91 Pontiac 3.1L v6 with a blown head gasket (steam in exhaust, bubbles in radiator). It overheated without the idiot light going on. No water in the oil. It has 180K miles but has been very well maintained 3K oil changes, etc. and uses no oil between changes. I don't know the compression yet, but plan to check the "easy" side understanding that two cyl's might be low if the blown gasket is between them. I would like to get about 20K more miles out of it before I get rid of it. Now the question(s): I've done a head on a Series Rover, but this is a V6 transverse mounted '91 fuel injected. Is it that much harder for the 3.1L V6? I have a little better than average home tools, compressor, air tools, etc. and fairly competent home mechanic, though only high school auto shop trained. What's the "book time" for this? (I'd probably double the book time for myself) Any shortcuts? Question 2: With that many miles - should I just replace the gaskets and check for warpage or defects in the head, or do a valve job and regain the top pressure forcing more strain on tired 180K rings? I don't want to sink a bunch of $ into a car that's worth maybe $2K. Q3: Any special tools needed? (I have torque wrench) Any mechanic in the Phoenix AZ area want to do this for some $ (Most shops don't want to do it without rebuilding the whole engine and the car's just not worth it.) I understand there'd be no warranty or anything like that, but shops don't want to risk it, and I can't blame them. Thanks for any responses - off list. Dave... debrown@srpnet.com Dave Brown - Gilbert, Arizona - '87 Range Rover "Chimera" 4.6L engine, Haltech EFI, Hedman Headers, Piper cam, K&N, Flowmaster, OME HD suspension, rear Lock Right, 33" tires, etc... etc... mailto:debrown@srpnet.com AM/FM Messages flagged "high importance" are forwarded to my pager. It's never over in a Rover! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:45:19 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: Re: LRO: solex webber conversion William L Leacock wrote: > Keith > The carb linkage is different between the solex and the Zenith which > require opposite crank motions to operate. . The crank arm and spring > should be changed. It is possible to modify the solex arm, and to use the > old spring, but the function is poor, the spring operates by unwinding > and rewinding, rather than winding and returning to shape, > > Regards from Western New York State > > Bill Leacock. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:45:15 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: LRO: CB Brake Master Cylinders Can anyone please tell me how to bleed the CB type Master on a single circuit non boosted SWB Land rover is bled. I have pressure bled it down, I have sucked from the bottom. I have even pressure bled up from the wheels. What it is doing is the following. All parts are new. I can pump up the pressure and it will hit the floor a few times then hold. When holding, it will not fade, it will hold. Subsequent pumps willk also hold without fading and the brakes are strong. BUT if I let off the pedal and leave it for a few miniutes and then press it again, it will go to the floor again until I pump it. It is a new CB master type cylinder. Do you have to prime these? How do you do this? Thanks for all your help. Kind regards, Mark Pilkington ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 01 08:56:06 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump >Yes that's it, but getting at those two nuts can be an exercise in >inventing new words. I've removed the series fuel pump a number of times in over 20 years of ownership and I don't remember it being a big deal. There are always bolts you can not get a socket on. There are always bolts that you get a flat turn, turn the wrench over and get another flat turn... But I just don't remember it being that bad. But last time I did it was in 1998 at Greek Peak NY., so it has been a while. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:09:33 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders I'd venture a guess that either one of your brake shoes, drums or snail cams are worn, or you have the shoes installed incorrectly (leading/trailing configuration, springs incorrectly installed shoe post to shoe post). Are ALL brake parts new, w/c's, shoes, drums ??? You can bleed the M/C on the truck by loosening the M/C pipe fitting at the M/C and which goes on to the wheel cylinders, then pump pedal once(or apply air pressure) and re-tighten the fitting as if it were a w/c bleed screw. JT/ric previously...Mark said: Can anyone please tell me how to bleed the CB type Master on a single circuit non boosted SWB Land rover is bled. I have pressure bled it down, I have sucked from the bottom. I have even pressure bled up from the wheels. What it is doing is the following. All parts are new. I can pump up the pressure and it will hit the floor a few times then hold. When holding, it will not fade, it will hold. Subsequent pumps willk also hold without fading and the brakes are strong. BUT if I let off the pedal and leave it for a few miniutes and then press it again, it will go to the floor again until I pump it. It is a new CB master type cylinder. Do you have to prime these? How do you do this? Thanks for all your help. Kind regards, Mark Pilkington ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:12:13 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: slugs We tried beer and had a small disgusting problem with the dogs, need I go on? Oh please do tell! Take it we had drunk then horking dogs? aj"DE works well"r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:15:49 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: CB Brake Master Cylinders Best thing to do with a CB because of the angled mount is to bench-bleed it before installation. Then plug the orifices, install, and hook up the lines. CBs tend to trap air bubbles when bled at the angle in the pedal box. aj"Paging Russ Dushin!"r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:21:17 EDT From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: RE: slugs - --part1_bd.dcc30c3.2818537d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/01 12:16:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Alan_Richer@Lotus.com writes: > Oh, the visual on that one! (Particularly if the dogs are allowed on the couch) Nate - --part1_bd.dcc30c3.2818537d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/25/01 12:16:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Alan_Richer@Lotus.com writes:


Take it we had drunk then horking dogs?



Oh, the visual on that one!  (Particularly if the dogs are allowed on the
couch)

Nate - --part1_bd.dcc30c3.2818537d_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:23:35 -0700 From: Paul Quin Subject: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders Hi Mark, I have the same system and had the same problems. I was told that because the CB type cylinder sits on an angle, the air bubble inside sits at the top of the fat end of the cylinder and does not get completely flushed out when you pump the system. The solution seems to be to get the cylinder level when bleeding. Some people say to bench bleed it before installing it, but the fluid always pours out before I can get it anywhere near the truck... You can try and unbolt the pedal tower and hold it level while bleeding. I did this and only succeeded in pouring brake fluid all over my newly painted foot wells :-( You can also try jacking up the front end of the truck, but it needs to be awfully high up and is inherently dangerous. The best method that I found was to go find a freshly dumped pile of dirt or some thing similar, drive the front wheels up onto this with the rears still on level ground, chalk everything securely and bleed away. I managed to get a few good farts of air out of my lines even after 2 weeks of "regular" bleeding in my driveway. FWIW my brakes are still a bit soft but the do work... Hope this helps, Paul Quin 1961 SII 88 Victoria, BC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:36:23 -0600 From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump At 08:56 25/04/01 -0700, TeriAnn Wakeman, wrote >I've removed the series fuel pump a number of times in over 20 years of >ownership and I don't remember it being a big deal. There are always >bolts you can not get a socket on. There are always bolts that you get a >flat turn, turn the wrench over and get another flat turn... I agree with you. But in this case I was doing the job for the first time and I couldn't see the bolts under the housing, only feel where I thought they were. Things were made worse by a buildup of old grease and stuff around the bolt heads. Once I had removed the pump together with the side cover and cleaned the bolt heads it all became clear and I was able to put the side cover on first and then the pump using a socket for the two housing nuts. The next time I do it there won't be any problem because I now know where the things are and I know for sure that I can get a socket and wrench at them. But I have to tell you I used some good anglo saxon, french, and bits of other languages, probably back to Proto Ur and perhaps Neolithic. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:12:09 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump What? The two nuts that are visible from above that sit on either side of the fuel pump assembly are connected to two loose bolts coming through the side cover (which is in turn attached by 5 or 6 bolts to the actual side of the engine)? So how does anyone successfully remove the pump by removing the two pump body nuts? >>> rover@pinn.net 04/25/01 10:28AM >>> "RON WARD" >On removing the fuel pump assembly, is it as simple as undoing the two (2) >nuts on either side of the pump from the side panel of the engine? >Any trick to it? Yeah, one...there are two bolts...with two nuts on the *inside* of the side cover plate....or at least that's how I remember it. I've always removed the six bolts and the whole side cover. If one of these nuts were to drop out, you could be in a hell of a hurt in a hurry if it didn't drop directly into the sump. The last time I had the pump out, I toyed with the idea of tack welding the two nuts to the plate. Mark the halves of the pump with a screwdriver, scratch awl or somesuch before disassembly. TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >Oh and don't remove or loosen the glass sediment bowl unless you have a >new rubber gasket on hand. The rubber gasket hardens and will not reseal >once it is hardened. So if a new sediment bowl gasket is not part of the >kit, get one and add it to the kit. The best place to store this sediment bowl is next to the bottle of 'emergency' single malt most Rover owners also carry in the spares kit.... Cheers *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----* | | | A. P. ("Sandy") Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 | | www.roav.org | | (original owner) (pre-production) | *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:21:54 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Folks, I'm getting these e-mails out of order so forgive me please. Rick Grant, are you saying you unbolt the two nuts that sit slightly below and to the left and right of the main pump attachment surface and the thing comes right out? The nuts I am referring to are clearly visible from right above the pump assembly and there are two of them. Thanks for the help and I apologize to those of you out there who are getting tired of this discussion. Thanks, Ron Ward >>> rgrant@cadvision.com 04/25/01 12:36PM >>> At 08:56 25/04/01 -0700, TeriAnn Wakeman, wrote >I've removed the series fuel pump a number of times in over 20 years of >ownership and I don't remember it being a big deal. There are always >bolts you can not get a socket on. There are always bolts that you get a >flat turn, turn the wrench over and get another flat turn... I agree with you. But in this case I was doing the job for the first time and I couldn't see the bolts under the housing, only feel where I thought they were. Things were made worse by a buildup of old grease and stuff around the bolt heads. Once I had removed the pump together with the side cover and cleaned the bolt heads it all became clear and I was able to put the side cover on first and then the pump using a socket for the two housing nuts. The next time I do it there won't be any problem because I now know where the things are and I know for sure that I can get a socket and wrench at them. But I have to tell you I used some good anglo saxon, french, and bits of other languages, probably back to Proto Ur and perhaps Neolithic. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 07:28:54 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders Reiterate, be sure the rear brake shoes are on correctly. I got sent 4 back side rear shoes rather than two front side and two back side shoes. I should remember this as I rebuilt the system so many times trying to figure out the problem, but I think the shoe with the brake pad closest to the top goes in front. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. If you have the wrong shoes in the right place, you cannot adjust the brakes properly. You won't be able to get pressure on the first pump as you have to take up the extra space in the drum. Aloha Peter >From: "Tackley, John" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: "'lro@works.team.net'" >Subject: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:09:33 -0400 > >I'd venture a guess that either one of your brake shoes, drums or snail >cams >are worn, or you have the shoes installed incorrectly (leading/trailing >configuration, springs incorrectly installed shoe post to shoe post). >Are ALL brake parts new, w/c's, shoes, drums ??? >You can bleed the M/C on the truck by loosening the M/C pipe fitting at the >M/C and which goes on to the wheel cylinders, then pump pedal once(or apply >air pressure) and re-tighten the fitting as if it were a w/c bleed screw. > >JT/ric > >previously...Mark said: > > >Can anyone please tell me how to bleed the CB type Master on a single >circuit non boosted SWB Land rover is bled. >I have pressure bled it down, I have sucked from the bottom. I have >even pressure bled up from the wheels. >What it is doing is the following. >All parts are new. >I can pump up the pressure and it will hit the floor a few times then >hold. When holding, it will not fade, it will hold. Subsequent pumps >willk also hold without fading and the brakes are strong. BUT if I let >off the pedal and leave it for a few miniutes and then press it again, >it will go to the floor again until I pump it. It is a new CB master >type cylinder. >Do you have to prime these? How do you do this? >Thanks for all your help. >Kind regards, >Mark Pilkington _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:39:27 -0600 From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump At 13:21 25/04/01 -0400, RON WARD, wrote >Folks, I'm getting these e-mails out of order so forgive me please. Rick >Grant, are you saying you unbolt the two nuts that sit slightly below and >to the left and right of the main pump attachment surface and the thing >comes right out? The nuts I am referring to are clearly visible from >right above the pump assembly and there are two of them. Yes that's them and it does come right off. I couldn't see them at all but I just ducked out to the garage and peered straight down over the pump and now that they are clean I can indeed see them. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:43:25 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders Peter O. adds: Reiterate, be sure the rear brake shoes are on correctly. Easy way to tell this (and one I used recently myself): CLamp off the rubber brake lines. if the pedal goes rock-hard, it ain't air in the master...,grin> If this does happen, then release the clamps one line at a time. This way, you can figure out which section of the circuit is giving you grief and you'll know where to concentrate your efforts. Clamping the lines is also a good way to deal with stubborn, hard-to-bleed sections as the hydraulic pressure all goes to the line with the difficulties. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:45:15 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: LightWeight vs Regular frames > The bulkhead mount holes in the out riggers have to be moved inboard by > an inch and the ends of the outriggers removed also the body mount tabs > behind > the seatbox have to be changed or new holes drilled in the body. Hmm, whole body is thinner, so outriggers may be a bit too wide. Sounds like a great mounting point for a full external cage :-) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:54:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: CB Brake Master Cylinders On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Mark Pilkington wrote: :I can pump up the pressure and it will hit the floor a few times then :hold. When holding, it will not fade, it will hold. Subsequent pumps :willk also hold without fading and the brakes are strong. BUT if I let :off the pedal and leave it for a few miniutes and then press it again, :it will go to the floor again until I pump it. It is a new CB master :type cylinder. First thing to do is figure out where the air is. Put a set of brake hose clamps on each of the flex hoses. If there is no air in the master, the pedal will be rock hard. If it's not, there's air in the master. You can try bleeding it by slacking off the output pipe a tad. Keep the brake fluid off the paint, of course. If the pedal is rock hard, then you have air in one or more wheel cylinders, worn shoes, oversized drumbs, incorrectly installed shoes, or the wrong wheel cylinders. If this is a 109, you might have an 88 master cylinder. If it's an 88, the pin that the shoes pivot on may be loose on the backplates. Go to the wheel with the shortest run of brake pipe (the front right, I'd think) and adjust the brakes as tight as you can get them. You shouldn't be able to turn the wheel at all. If you can, you've got oversized drums, worn out shoes, or bad adjusters, or all three. Take off the clamp on that wheel's hose. The pedal should still be hard, but a little bit of movement is okay. If it moves more than that, there's air. Bleed. Put the clamp back on, and repeat for the other wheel. Then do the back axle. Take the clamps off, and you should have a good pedal. Adjust all the brakes properly, and you should still have a good pedal. If you don't you've got a mechanical problem -- 88 master on a 109, shoes on wrong, worn out shoes, pivot pin movement on the back plate. If this is an 88, see if the brakes work in reverse better than they do forwards. If they do, than the pivot pins on the backplate are probably moving. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:57:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, A. P. "Sandy" Grice wrote: :Yeah, one...there are two bolts...with two nuts on the *inside* of the side :cover plate....or at least that's how I remember it. I've always removed :the six bolts and the whole side cover. If one of these nuts were to drop :out, you could be in a hell of a hurt in a hurry if it didn't drop directly :into the sump. The last time I had the pump out, I toyed with the idea of :tack welding the two nuts to the plate. The plate is supposed to have studs on it, isn't it? I'm certain mine does. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:27:28 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: Hi-Lift or Jack-All mounting brackets Thanks >>> bhoult@peoplepc.com 04/25/01 10:25AM >>> http://www.central4wd.com They are under Hi Lift Jack Co. in the company selection box. Look for the 4xRac item. You can add it to your cart for $22.50. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" On Wed, 25 April 2001, "RON WARD" wrote: > > Anyone know of an on-line source for these little brackets used to mount the hi-lift jack? > > TIA > > Ron Ward ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:33:00 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C0CD7B.7BCA4960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay everyone, I need some help. I need another vehicle and would like = some input. Here's what I want to use this additional vehicle for: 1) Daily driving 2) Dog hauling - needs air conditioning 3) road trips and vacations 4) camping and light off road use I am open to anything that makes sense. It doesn't need to be a LR = (SWMBO says "NYET" to any additional Series trucks BTW) but I am curious = about older Range Rovers, say pre 1995. Fell free to email me off-list, I'll put both addresses at the bottom. = If those of you with RRs could chime in I would appreciate it. If = anyone else has any different suggestions, I am open to those too. Ah yes, how much? Well I am in the middle of a frame off project on my = 109 so I'd like to be as economical as possible but I don't want a POS = that I am always struggling with either. What's reasonable here? I = don't know, maybe between $5-8K. Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers. 1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding = rovers for sale? 2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various = Range Rover model years, etc.? 3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic = or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you basically need = to go to the dealer for service? 4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when = looking at these? 5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L and = the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay = away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9? 6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one = seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are = the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed? 7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of = real space? 8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides = LWB and SWB versions?=20 9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy? 10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with = 150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much = "trouble" as a Series truck. 11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck? = Are they good to go as is or do people have to go to great lengths with = various modifications. And I am talking cost here basically. Well, hopefully this won't cause too many flame wars. (:-] And don't be shy. If someone out there has something available feel = free to let me know. Thanks everyone. Rich Williams Redmond, Washington 1960 SII 109sw 19xx RR ??? - well maybe sometime soon HOME: paddlers@nwlink.com OFFICE: richw@nwlink.com - ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C0CD7B.7BCA4960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Okay everyone, I need some help.  I need another vehicle and = would like=20 some input.
 
Here’s what I want to use this additional vehicle for:
 
1)     =20 Daily driving
2)     =20 Dog hauling – needs air conditioning
3)     =20 road trips and vacations
4)     =20 camping and light off road use
 
I am open to anything that makes sense.  It doesn’t need to be a = LR (SWMBO says=20 “NYET” to any additional Series trucks BTW) but I am curious = about older Range=20 Rovers, say pre 1995.
 
Fell free to email me off-list, I’ll put both addresses at = the bottom.  If those of you with RRs could = chime in=20 I would appreciate it.  If = anyone=20 else has any different suggestions, I am open to those too.
 
Ah yes, how much?  = Well I am in=20 the middle of a frame off project on my 109 so I’d like to be as = economical as=20 possible but I don’t want a POS that I am always struggling with = either.  What’s reasonable = here?  I don’t know, maybe = between $5-8K.
 
Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers…
 
1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for = finding=20 rovers for sale?
 
2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the = various Range=20 Rover model years, etc…?
 
3) Are there particular model years that are substantially = problematic or=20 troublesome?  When do they = become so=20 complex that you basically need to go to the dealer for service?
 
4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for = when=20 looking at these?
 
5) What different motor variations available?  I have seen the 3.5L and the = 3.9L=20 engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay away = from?  Any pros or cons with the 3.5 = of the=20 3.9?
 
6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual?  Which one seems more = durable?  How capable is the auto tranny = off-road?   How are = the manual=20 trannys configured – 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed?
 
7) What’s the real difference between the LWB and SWB models = in terms of=20 real space?
 
8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants = besides LWB=20 and SWB versions? 
 
9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to = buy?
 
10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with = 150-200K=20 miles on them.  At what = point do=20 these things get to be as much “trouble” as a Series = truck.
 
11) What’s it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off = road truck?  Are they good to go as is or = do people=20 have to go to great lengths with various modifications.  And I am talking cost here=20 basically.
 
Well, hopefully this won’t cause too many flame wars.  (:-]
 
And don’t be shy.  If someone=20 out there has something available feel free to let me know.
 
Thanks everyone.
 
Rich Williams
Redmond, Washington
1960 SII 109sw
19xx RR ??? – well maybe sometime soon
 
OFFICE: richw@nwlink.com
= - ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C0CD7B.7BCA4960-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:49:16 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Thanks for clarifying for me. >>> rgrant@cadvision.com 04/25/01 01:39PM >>> At 13:21 25/04/01 -0400, RON WARD, wrote >Folks, I'm getting these e-mails out of order so forgive me please. Rick >Grant, are you saying you unbolt the two nuts that sit slightly below and >to the left and right of the main pump attachment surface and the thing >comes right out? The nuts I am referring to are clearly visible from >right above the pump assembly and there are two of them. Yes that's them and it does come right off. I couldn't see them at all but I just ducked out to the garage and peered straight down over the pump and now that they are clean I can indeed see them. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:11:56 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: RE: LRO: CB Brake Master Cylinders Whoaa.....this one's a keeper. Thanks David. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: David Scheidt [mailto:dscheidt@tumbolia.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 10:55 AM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: Re: LRO: CB Brake Master Cylinders On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Mark Pilkington wrote: :I can pump up the pressure and it will hit the floor a few times then :hold. When holding, it will not fade, it will hold. Subsequent pumps :willk also hold without fading and the brakes are strong. BUT if I let :off the pedal and leave it for a few miniutes and then press it again, :it will go to the floor again until I pump it. It is a new CB master :type cylinder. First thing to do is figure out where the air is. Put a set of brake hose clamps on each of the flex hoses. If there is no air in the master, the pedal will be rock hard. If it's not, there's air in the master. You can try bleeding it by slacking off the output pipe a tad. Keep the brake fluid off the paint, of course. If the pedal is rock hard, then you have air in one or more wheel cylinders, worn shoes, oversized drumbs, incorrectly installed shoes, or the wrong wheel cylinders. If this is a 109, you might have an 88 master cylinder. If it's an 88, the pin that the shoes pivot on may be loose on the backplates. Go to the wheel with the shortest run of brake pipe (the front right, I'd think) and adjust the brakes as tight as you can get them. You shouldn't be able to turn the wheel at all. If you can, you've got oversized drums, worn out shoes, or bad adjusters, or all three. Take off the clamp on that wheel's hose. The pedal should still be hard, but a little bit of movement is okay. If it moves more than that, there's air. Bleed. Put the clamp back on, and repeat for the other wheel. Then do the back axle. Take the clamps off, and you should have a good pedal. Adjust all the brakes properly, and you should still have a good pedal. If you don't you've got a mechanical problem -- 88 master on a 109, shoes on wrong, worn out shoes, pivot pin movement on the back plate. If this is an 88, see if the brakes work in reverse better than they do forwards. If they do, than the pivot pins on the backplate are probably moving. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:45:36 -0700 From: Paul Quin Subject: RE: LRO: RE: CB Brake Master Cylinders Also check the bottom anchor posts on the backing plate. All four of mine were loose causing the shoes to move around in the drum. This is good for a real good ass pucker moment as the brakes will be there one moment and gone the next!! Paul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:38:47 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C0CD84.ABFDFBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay everyone, I need some help. I need another vehicle and would like = some input. Here's what I want to use this additional vehicle for: 1) Daily driving 2) Dog hauling - needs air conditioning 3) road trips and vacations 4) camping and light off road use I am open to anything that makes sense. It doesn't need to be a LR = (SWMBO says "NYET" to any additional Series trucks BTW) but I am curious = about older Range Rovers, say pre 1995. Fell free to email me off-list, = I'll put both addresses at the bottom. If those of you with RRs could = chime in I would appreciate it. If anyone else has any different = suggestions, I am open to those too. Ah yes, how much? Well I am in = the middle of a frame off project on my 109 so I'd like to be as = economical as possible but I don't want a POS that I am always = struggling with either. What's reasonable here? I don't know, maybe = between $5-8K. Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers. 1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding = rovers for sale? 2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various = Range Rover model years, etc.? 3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic = or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you basically need = to go to the dealer for service? 4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when = looking at these? 5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L and = the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay = away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9? 6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one = seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are = the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed? 7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of = real space? 8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides = LWB and SWB versions?=20 9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy? 10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with = 150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much = "trouble" as a Series truck. 11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck? = Are they good to go as is or do people have to go to great lengths with = various modifications. And I am talking cost here basically. Well, hopefully this won't cause too many flame wars. (:-] And don't = be shy. If someone out there has something available feel free to let = me know. Thanks everyone. Rich Williams Redmond, Washington 1960 SII 109sw 19xx RR ??? - well maybe sometime soon HOME: paddlers@nwlink.com OFFICE: richw@nwlink.com - ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C0CD84.ABFDFBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Okay everyone, I need some = help.  I need another vehicle and = would like=20 some input.
 
Here=92s what I want to use = this additional=20 vehicle for:
 
1)      = Daily=20 driving
2)      = Dog=20 hauling =96 needs air conditioning
3)      = road=20 trips and vacations
4)     =20 camping and light off road use
 
I am open to anything that = makes sense.  It doesn=92t need to be a LR = (SWMBO says=20 =93NYET=94 to any additional Series trucks BTW) but I am curious about = older Range=20 Rovers, say pre 1995.  Fell free to email me off-list, I=92ll put = both=20 addresses at the bottom.  = If those=20 of you with RRs could chime in I would appreciate it.  If anyone else has any = different=20 suggestions, I am open to those too.  Ah yes, how much?  Well I am in the middle of a = frame off=20 project on my 109 so I=92d like to be as economical as possible but I = don=92t want a=20 POS that I am always struggling with either.  What=92s reasonable here?  I don=92t know, maybe between=20 $5-8K.
 
Here are the questions I have = regarding Range=20 Rovers=85
 
1) Besides = lrx.com are there=20 any other good web resources for finding rovers for sale?
2) Any good = web resources for=20 finding good information on the various Range Rover model years,=20 etc=85?
3) Are there = particular model=20 years that are substantially problematic or troublesome?  When do they become so complex = that you=20 basically need to go to the dealer for service?
4) What kind = of problems=20 specific to RRs do I want to look out for when looking at = these?
5) What = different motor=20 variations available?  I = have seen=20 the 3.5L and the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek = out or=20 stay away from?  Any pros = or cons=20 with the 3.5 of the 3.9?
6) What tranny = do most prefer=20 as far as auto vs. manual?  = Which=20 one seems more durable?  = How capable=20 is the auto tranny off-road?  =20 How are the manual trannys configured =96 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 = speed?
7) What=92s = the real difference=20 between the LWB and SWB models in terms of real space?
8) Is a RR = just a RR or are=20 there different model sub-variants besides LWB and SWB=20 versions? 
9) What else = should I know=20 before seriously looking at one to buy?
10) I have = seen several on=20 lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with 150-200K miles on them.  At what point do these things = get to be=20 as much =93trouble=94 as a Series truck.
11) What=92s = it usually take to=20 make a stock RR a decent off road truck? =20 Are they good to go as is or do people have to go to great = lengths with=20 various modifications.  = And I am=20 talking cost here basically.
 
Well, hopefully this won=92t = cause too many flame=20 wars.  (:-]  And = don=92t be shy.=20  If someone out there has = something=20 available feel free to let me know.
 
Thanks everyone.
 
Rich Williams
Redmond, = Washington
1960 SII 109sw
19xx RR ??? =96 well maybe = sometime=20 soon
HOME: paddlers@nwlink.com
OFFICE: richw@nwlink.com
= - ------=_NextPart_000_00F6_01C0CD84.ABFDFBA0-- ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #356 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Wed Apr 25 19:50:00 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3PNnxN15323 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:49:59 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3PMkLF21006 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3PMkL821003 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:46:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25119 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3PLxRH31486 for lro-digest-gone; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:59:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:59:27 -0400 Message-Id: <200104252159.f3PLxRH31486@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #357 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 25 2001 Volume 01 : Number 357 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:51:45 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: test This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01C0CD86.7BFD8D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable just testing email - ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01C0CD86.7BFD8D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable just testing email - ------=_NextPart_000_0109_01C0CD86.7BFD8D60-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:59:49 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: LRO - RR Inq. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C0CD87.9CBD3AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry about the double posting - ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C0CD87.9CBD3AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sorry about the double posting - ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C0CD87.9CBD3AE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:03:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry rich, others may have had good experiences, but i will tell you mine. i was watching an rr selling on ebay. the description sounded good and it was represented as problem free -- the pictures looked good. i was tempted to bid, but just watched. anyway, it didn't get to the reserved price. we were going to that (UNNAMED) city the very next week and i called the owner. went by and looked at it and i was *shocked*. the 95 rangie had had a hard life. rust, corrosion, just looked like it came from a downtown detroit winter. i told the owner that i didn't want that vehicle *at any price* and left. anyway, i learned that buying sight-unseen on ebay might be a pig in a poke... my current rules are to see it, touch it, drive it before reaching for the wallet... (hey, i still buy the small stuff sight unseen on ebay, though. where do you draw the line...) ray harder -- currently range-rover-less... On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Rich Williams II wrote: > Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:38:47 -0700 > From: Rich Williams II > Reply-To: lro@works.team.net > To: lro@works.team.net > Subject: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry > > Okay everyone, I need some help. I need another vehicle and would like some input. > > Here's what I want to use this additional vehicle for: > > 1) Daily driving > 2) Dog hauling - needs air conditioning > 3) road trips and vacations > 4) camping and light off road use > > I am open to anything that makes sense. It doesn't need to be a LR (SWMBO says "NYET" to any additional Series trucks BTW) but I am curious about older Range Rovers, say pre 1995. Fell free to email me off-list, I'll put both addresses at the bottom. If those of you with RRs could chime in I would appreciate it. If anyone else has any different suggestions, I am open to those too. Ah yes, how much? Well I am in the middle of a frame off project on my 109 so I'd like to be as economical as possible but I don't want a POS that I am always struggling with either. What's reasonable here? I don't know, maybe between $5-8K. > > Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers. > > 1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding rovers for sale? > 2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various Range Rover model years, etc.? > 3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you basically need to go to the dealer for service? > 4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when looking at these? > 5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L and the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9? > 6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed? > 7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of real space? > 8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides LWB and SWB versions? > 9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy? > 10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with 150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much "trouble" as a Series truck. > 11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck? Are they good to go as is or do people have to go to great lengths with various modifications. And I am talking cost here basically. > > Well, hopefully this won't cause too many flame wars. (:-] And don't be shy. If someone out there has something available feel free to let me know. > > Thanks everyone. > > Rich Williams > Redmond, Washington > 1960 SII 109sw > 19xx RR ??? - well maybe sometime soon > HOME: paddlers@nwlink.com > OFFICE: richw@nwlink.com > Sincerely, Ray Harder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:21:35 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Date: Wed, 25 Apr 01 08:56:06 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump >>Yes that's it, but getting at those two nuts can be an exercise in >inventing new words. >I've removed the series fuel pump a number of times in over 20 years of ownership and I don't remember it being a big deal. I replaced the fuel pump on my SIII once many years ago, and like TeriAnn, I don't recall there was anything tricky whatsoever about the job. Disconnect the fuel in and out lines, remove the glass sediment bowl so it won't break when you accidentally drop the pump, remove the couple of bolts or nuts holding the pump to the block, and that's it. I wouldn't be surprised if I had to use an open-end wrench on the bolts at the time, as I'm always running into that sort of thing on the Land Rover, but I don't recall fighting a stubborn fastener that was overly hard to get at. I don't even remember if I did the job from above or below the vehicle, but if I did it from above, I'm sure I removed the bonnet entirely as it really gets in your way when you do these sort of jobs. But I would have used the factory service manual and followed the instructions to the letter. I seem to recall the whole job took less than an hour, but I may be mis-remembering that. _________________________________________ C. Marin Faure Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services telephone (425)393-7721 mobile (206)650-5622 fax: (425)393-7741 e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:27:27 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:12:09 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: IIa Mechanical Fuel Pump >What? The two nuts that are visible from above that sit on either side of the fuel pump assembly are connected to two loose bolts coming through the side cover (which is in turn attached by 5 or 6 bolts to the actual side of the engine)? So how does anyone successfully remove the pump by removing the two pump body nuts? I don't have my factory service manual here at work, and it's been years since I replaced the fuel pump on my SIII, so I don't recall every move I made during the process. But I know for a FACT that I did not remove the engine side cover, just whatever it is that holds the pump assembly to the side of the block. Possibly the IIa version of the engine uses a different fastener system, but on the 2.25 petrol SIII, there certainly was no need to remove the engine side cover. _________________________________________ C. Marin Faure Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services telephone (425)393-7721 mobile (206)650-5622 fax: (425)393-7741 e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:28:01 -0400 From: Perrone Ford Subject: Re: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry Rich,

   GREAT stuff!  A RR Classic will give you all the things you say you are looking for.  I will try to answer each of your numbered questions in turn and offer my email address and phone number of you need more help.


Rich Williams II wrote:
 Okay everyone, I need some help.  I need another vehicle and would like some input.
 
Here’s what I want to use this additional vehicle for:
 
1)      Daily driving
2)      Dog hauling – needs air conditioning
3)      road trips and vacations
4)      camping and light off road use
 
1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding rovers for sale?
Ebay, Bear Valley Land Rovers (expensive but quality) the lists, land rover clubs...

2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various Range  Rover model years, etc.…?
http://www.rangerovers.net   Should have everything you need.

3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic or troublesome?  When do they become so complex that you basically need to go to the dealer for service?
There have only been a few additions in the RR classic line that made these vehicles tougher to service.  Different transfer case in 1989 is less robust but quieter.  ABS brakes added in 1990.  Replacement parts are expensive.  And Air suspension added in 1993.  Unreliable, and you don't want to KNOW how much it costs to fix.  However, you may get lucky and find someone who wants to rid themselves of one of these cheap.  If so, buy it.  They are nice, and changing over to coils can be done for a few hundred bucks.

4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when  looking at these?
Air suspension on post 1993 models, ABS problems in 1990 and later models, self leveling unit on all pre-1993 models ($500 or upgrade to decent springs and remove the crappy thing), seat switches, central locking in some cases, fuel pump, transfer case output housing on post 1989 models.  Most other things are similar to other LR coil sprung models.

5) What different motor variations available?  I have seen the 3.5L and the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay away from?  Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9?
The 3.9 has better power than the 3.5.  I'd go for that one. The 4.2l of the long wheelbase can be a little more prone to bottom end failure due to increased torque on a fairly weak block.

6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual?  Which one seems more durable?  How capable is the auto tranny off-road?   How are the manual trannys configured – 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed?
There were no manual tranny models officially sold in the US.  The auto off-road will embarrass almost anything else.. period.

7) What’s the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of  real space?
BIG!  At 6'0" and 240#, I can comfortably ride in the back of the LWB model with a tall person in front of me.  8" more legroom in this model.  In fact, there is almost as much rear legroom as front.  This is fabulous if you have a family.

8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides LWB and SWB versions? 
There are a few variants, but they are really only trim level changes.  Some variants like the Hunter Edition (1991) had cloth seats and no ABS, and no Sunroof.  In most other cases the variants are just color, and a few options (my 91 County SE was only available in black and had the 8 speaker system with a Subwoofer)

9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy?
Call me and lets talk.

10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with 150-200K miles on them.  At what point do these things get to be as much “trouble” as a Series truck.
They are all as much trouble as a series truck!  All land rovers leak, all have rusting problems if you live in that climate, etc.  You'll be surprised at how similar it really is to what you are used to.

11) What’s it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck?  Are they good to go as is or do people  have to go to great lengths with various modifications.  And I am talking cost here  basically.
Nothing.  It will keep up with your series truck off the showroom floor.. and will leave your series truck in some instances...  The best change to make is to add tires first, then a decent set of springs and shocks, and recovery points.  After that, its all the normal stuff.  Tougher axles, lift kit, lockers, winch, etc.

Well, hopefully this won’t cause too many flame wars.  (:-]
Why would it?


- -Perrone
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:04:34 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= Subject: RE: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle It is good to know who you.are as well as where we are going.to Ihave been trying to revive the geocities page with no luck. I think I'll make a new one and change the link in the go.to I will let you know. Luis M. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hall To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle Because I have I.am/landrover, and one day I went through all the available names to see what other land rover pages there were. Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > You know something, I really had forgoten about that. > I'll see if I can find a password for setting it again. > 'Never did nothing with that. Well, maybe the time is now. > > Now you tell me something Jim, How come you DO know about that site? You > keep a secret database on all of us? > :-) > > Luis M. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Hall > To: > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle > > But you have a web page. Perhaps you got it a long time ago and forgot > about it. http://go.to/landrover or > http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/1886/index.html Or else there is > another Gutierrez in Costa Rica who likes Land Rovers. > > Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > > > In this precise moment I have one in my hands.Its a little dark but the > > setting is ok (in the middle of a cloud forest reserve. I think I even > have > > it scanned somewhere. > > What I dont have is time to make a web page for it. > > Anyone with room for it? > > > > Luis M. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jim Hall > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 7:27 PM > > Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle > > > > Speaking of pictures, when are you going to put some up of your rover > > Luis? > > > > Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > > > > > > I'm sorry JL. I think I was the first to ask for pictures a while > ago.... > > > > > > :-] > > > > > > Luis M. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Jean-Leon Morin > > > > > > > Jeeze, I really don't know when all this hype is about... > > > > > > > > Valdez is... > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 13/04/01 > > > > -- > > Jim Hall > > 1966 88" Elephant Chaser > > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo > > "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling > > with Jim." Mitch Stockdale > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 13/04/01 > > -- > Jim Hall > 1966 88" Elephant Chaser > http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo > "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling > with Jim." Mitch Stockdale > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 14/04/01 - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 15/04/01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:26:59 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Range Rover Inquiry Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:33:00 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry >Here are the questions I have regarding Range Rovers. 1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for finding = rovers for sale? Dont' know. >2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the various = Range Rover model years, etc.? I suppose you could subscribe to the Range Rover equivelent of this list. >3) Are there particular model years that are substantially problematic = or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you basically need = to go to the dealer for service? US-spec Range Rovers require dealer servicing for a lot of stuff unless you are a REALLY well equipped mechanic. As soon as you get into air conditioning problems, engine control computer problems, ABS computer problems, etc., you're probably talking dealer unless you have the equipment and know-how to troubleshoot electro- mechanical systems like these. >4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for when = looking at these? A lot of thing fail in the vicinity of the 100,000 mile mark. Radiators, water pumps, steering pumps and boxes, and suspension bushings you can pretty much count on to give up the ghost at this time, depending on how the vehicle has been driven. Electrical items like central door locking, seat and window relays, and ABS can be troublesome at any time. >5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L and = the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay = away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9? Under no circumstances (unless you like throwing money away) buy a Range Rover 4.2 LWB. The engine is a failure waiting to happen. I won't go into details here, but suffice it to say enlarging the displacement from 3.9 to 4.2 (actually done by TVR) was a good idea that didn't work in the case of the Range Rover. The block flexes under load, and blows head gaskets and develops oil leaks. This engine is why they developed the 4.0/4.6 variant for the new model Range Rover. Also, the 1st generation air suspension on the 4.2 LWB is the system Rover used to learn how NOT to make an air suspension. Bad vehicle all around except for the extra eight inches of rear seat legroom- avoid it like the plague. 6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one = seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are = the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed? If you're in the US, you have no choice, as the only Range Rovers imported have automatics. It is a very good transmission, built by ZF, and is a derivative of the automatic transmission used in BMWs and Mercedes. If you import a Range Rover from the UK or wherever that's over 25 years old, you can get one with a manual transmission. But unlike the Discoveries brought into the US, all the Range Rovers imported are automatics. If you're outside the US, Rover used a 3-speed Chrysler automatic for awhile. Despite the transmission's good reputation in the US, I have read nothing but Bad Things about that transmission as used in the Range Rover. Quite trouble-prone, apparently, although it shouldn't be. The manuals are good, except those built in the early 90s. There were bad quality problems at the supplier, and as a consequence, Range Rovers, Discoveries, and Defenders built with manual transmissions during that time have a high rate of failures. The good news is that most of these vehicles will have had their failed transmissions replaced by now, usually under warranty. >7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in terms of = real space? Besides the LWB being total crap mechanically, the difference is eight inches of legroom in the rear seat. The front seat and bed areas are the same. The extra eight inches is very nice, but not worth the potential expenses lurking in the engine and suspension. >8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants besides = LWB and SWB versions?=20 All "classic" Range Rovers are the same in terms of frame, body, etc. The LWB has more legroom in the rear seat via a stretched frame and wheelbase. It also has the first generation air suspension, which like the 4.2 engine, is a repair bill waiting to be paid. The classic coil spring Range Rover's basic chassis was used as the platform for the Discovery. There was a "stripped down" Range Rover imported to the US in 1991 called the Hunter. While the chassis, drive train, and engine are identical to the standard and County models, the Hunter does not have anti sway bars, a front spoiler with fog lights, a sunroof, or power leather seats. The interior trim is more sparse than the regular model. This was an attempt by the importer to create a more affordable Range Rover (the Hunter had a sticker price of $38,000 while the standar model had a sticker price of $44,900. The Hunter proved not very popular with US buyers, and this version was soon dropped, leaving only the standard and County models. They differ only in trim and interior appointments. A Hunter can be identified from the back by the stylized horse and rider logo at the lower right corner of the tailgate. >9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy? The US-spec version MUST use premium fuel unless you want to change the valve timing and other things. It gets 13 mpg in town, maybe 18mph on the highway unless you have a really strong tailwind. Parts are VERY expensive, unless you order them from the UK, in which case the parts prices are reasonable but the shipping will more than make up for it (been there, done that many times). Dealer labor charges are close to $100 an hour now. Some parts price examples- radiator- $700, ABS computer, $1,500, brake caliper rebuild/replacement (one axle only)- $1,000 minimum, fan viscous clutch- $400, dealer "tune up," $600 assuming they find nothing wrong. >10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with = 150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much = "trouble" as a Series truck. They can be as much "trouble" as a Series from the day they leave the factory. Or they can go for a couple of hundred thousand miles very reliably. The build/mechanical quality is very spotty. There are great ones and there are dogs. I personally would never buy a used Range Rover in the US, as there are too many ways the previous owner can screw it up. It MUST have the oil and filter changed every 3,000 miles regardless of what the manual and dealer say. This is because the hydraulic lifters in the Rover V-8 are very susceptible to dirt, and if they start to stick, they quickly pound the cam lobe flat. Big bucks repair bill. The aluminum engine MUST have the correct grade of coolant in it, and it MUST be in good condition, which means an annual change at least. The engine MUST be fed only premium fuel. Many US Range Rover owners in the US do not give them this kind of attention. >11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road truck? Lots and lots of money :-) Actually, I've found the stock coil spring Range Rover to be very, very good off-road as it is. I use it for moose hunting in BC and for towing a 3,000 poound boat hundreds of miles on dirt roads in BC and on Vancouver Island. The only real detriment is the rear overhang. The front spoiler is easily removed, and in fact the owners manual has the instructions for doing so. The Range Rover can be fitted with an ARB air locker on the differential- one on the rear should suffice for dealing with almost any bad mud or whatever situation you might come across. Bear in mind that if not used intelligently, a locking differential can ruin your driveline in short order. I was very leery of using an automatic off road, as I was used to the manual in my SIII, but after 10 years now, I've found the automatic actually has some advantages. So I'm no longer an advocate of manual-only in off-road driving. Both have their advantages and disadvantages; it's much more a matter of the driver knowing how to use what he has effectively than which type of tranmission is the best. There have been reports that the viscous clutch (used in place of the lock on the center differential) can fail or cease working temporarily under continuous, high-stress off-roading that overheats the clutch fluid and components. But I suspect that if this is the kind of off-road work you want to do, a Range Rover is not your best choice anyway. In my opinion, the best years for US-spec Range Rovers are 91 and 92. The 4.2 LWB was introduced in '93, and that was the end of Range Rover as a viable on-off road vehicle as far as I'm concerned. The 4.2 LWB is just plain crap, and the new model, while fabulous from a technical point of view, is getting awfully fancy for anyone but the extremely wealthy to consider beating up on the trail. We've been very happy with our '91 Vogue SE. It has 118,000 miles on it, and the things that are supposed to give out at 100,000 miles have done so, or are doing so. But it's been quite reliable. However, it's had only one owner, and we've taken care of every problem as it's arisen, and have kept the oil clean and the coolant fresh. We drive it pretty conservatively, shifting into a lower gear range when climbing hills, for example, to keep the transmission from hunting back and forth. We also shift down manually when towing the boat up a hill. I think we've used the kick-down feature of the transmission twice in ten years. So we've been pretty easy on it, even when we take if off-road or into "working" mode. Including warranty problems, we've had: a leaking hub seal, failed air condtioner fans, leaking brake caliper seal, bad fan belts, failed cruise control, failed wiper motor relay, failed window switch, failed ABS computer, failed fan viscous clutch, loose windshield wiper motor, non-functioning tailgate lock, failed seat adjustment switch, cracked road wheel, failed trailing arm bushings. With the exception of the ABS computer, all the items listed were either warranty items within the first year of ownership, or problems my wife and I fixed ourselves. We are not at all sorry we bought the vehicle, but when we were contemplating trading up to a new model Range Rover the other year, we decided we preferred the styling and relative simplicity of the coil spring model we have now, so we elected to keep our '91. But I would caution anyone contemplating buying any Range Rover to be aware of the potential cost of ownership, because it can be amazingly high. The purchase price may be the least of your expenses in the long run. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:45:02 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Range Rover questions In a previous post, I was not at all complimentary about the Range Rover 4.2 LWB. While there may be some of you who take issue with my statements about that model, I do want to say that my comments were not based on personal experience with the vehicle, as I've not had any. The comments I made were based on the service records of the local dealership shop, and the opinions of the mechanics who work on these vehicles. They were also based on the opinions and experiences of a good friend who owns a commercial vehicle hire company in the UK near Manchester, and who has had Range Rovers and Land Rovers in his fleet for decades. If there's anyone who can attest to the strengths and weakness of a vehicle, it's the folks who work on them for a living. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:04:40 -0400 From: "Alex Maiolo" Subject: Re: LRO: Range Rover Inquiry This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0CDB2.33003BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's what I want to use this additional vehicle for: 1) Daily driving >It's not a Mercedes luxury class, but it's a fine ride for what it = is 2) Dog hauling - needs air conditioning >The AC is decent until you get into the deep South in July. Excels at dog hauling. The truck sits up high and gives you and the = dogs a great field of view. I can't help you with the bad breath thing = though - take that up with the dogs. 3) road trips and vacations >Brilliant. My first RR was like a pair of well worn jeans or a = Barbour coat. Broken in, well-traveled - oh the stories... 4) camping and light off road use >Perfect. Get a roof rack, and consider one that's removable if this = will be your daily driver. They can be noisey and make your sucky fuel = economy suckier. Plus, when the roof's open you'll think it's Valhalla = time. 1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for = finding rovers for sale? >LRX is really good. Try your local paper too. 2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the = various Range Rover model years, etc..? >Ask away. We're a helpful lot. 3) Are there particular model years that are substantially = problematic or troublesome? When do they become so complex that you = basically need to go to the dealer for service? >Stay pre-BMW. 89-92 are pretty nice. 4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out for = when looking at these? >Rusty tailgate and wheel wells. Slipping tranny on a ragged out = one. Headliners. Just accept that the stereo sucks and get over that = one. A well maintained engine will serve you nicely. Avoid a dumbass' = trash. 5) What different motor variations available? I have seen the 3.5L = and the 3.9L engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay = away from? Any pros or cons with the 3.5 of the 3.9? >On SWBs, they are 3.9 from '89 on. Features of the 87 and 88's = include a manually locking diff, but they are 3.5.=20 The 3.5 ain't bad, but the 3.9 has many improvements. I'm personally = quite fond of the early 89s, but anything up between '89 and '92 should = be a good balance of performance and simplicity. The LWBs have the 4.2. 6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual? Which one = seems more durable? How capable is the auto tranny off-road? How are = the manual trannys configured - 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 speed? >All US spec RRs are auto, and they work great. The first year of = the Disco (in the US - 1994) has a manual option.=20 You should consider a Disco as well, they are marvelous trucks and = can be had for a nice price, since there are more of them. Either way, = the auto trans is the way to go - and I'm a 5-speed guy normally. 7) What's the real difference between the LWB and SWB models in = terms of real space? >I've heard quite a bit, but I've never owned one.=20 8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants = besides LWB and SWB versions?=20 >The early Hunters were simple - cloth, manual sunroof, etc, and the = later Hunters were more posh (or maybe it's the other way around). Great = Divides have a shallower airdam, but basically there are two models:=20 Standard and County.=20 County has a chrome bumper, some wood inside and a few other = niceties. 9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to buy? >It's better to spend more money on one that's had a good life, than = finding a trashed "bargain." If you spend $6k and need an engine rebuild and a tranny within a = year, you'll have $13k into it if you do the work yourself and use = rebuilt or used parts. Better to spend $8500 now and get a peach. They = are out there. 10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K with = 150-200K miles on them. At what point do these things get to be as much = "trouble" as a Series truck. > Day one? Nah. Heed my words on the "hard life" thing. All 4wds are expensive = to keep on the road, but they are more expensive exponentially if you = get one that's done heavy off-roading - no exception. A decently maintained RR can go 250k easily. I have a pal who has = nearly half a mil on his and he's thinking about rebuilding after one = more winter. The ancillaries may fail over time, but the engine is good = if you're nice to it - use good oil, change often, service the tranny, = and for the love of god, don't run it hot! 11) What's it usually take to make a stock RR a decent off road = truck? Are they good to go as is or do people have to go to great = lengths with various modifications. And I am talking cost here = basically. >You say you want to do "light" off-roading, and I assume you'll = keep the fun stuff ( ;) ) to the Series truck. If so, stock is = really nice. Find a good on and off-road hybrid tire. I personally hate = the BFG All Terrain ( the "no terrain"...) but ask around. I like = Dunlops, Coopers and Armstrongs. Fairly quiet on-road, and pretty good = off-road. Balance often! Bilsteins and new bushings help, as do decent springs. I swear a stock RR will shame most trucks in the mud, and you can = drive it to the theatre in style. Where are you? I have friend in VA that has a nice one for sale. Alex Maiolo Chapel Hill NC - ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0CDB2.33003BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
Here’s what I want to use this additional vehicle = for:
 
1)     =20 Daily driving
 
 
>It's not a Mercedes luxury class, but it's a fine ride for = what it=20 is
 
 
2)     =20 Dog hauling – needs air conditioning
 
 
>The AC is decent until you get into the deep South in = July.
Excels at dog hauling. The truck sits up high and gives you and = the=20 dogs a great field of view. I can't help you with the bad breath = thing=20 though - take that up with the dogs.
 
 
3)     =20 road trips and vacations
 
 
>Brilliant. My first RR was like a pair of well worn jeans = or a=20 Barbour coat. Broken in, well-traveled - oh the stories...
 
 
4)     =20 camping and light off road use
 
 
>Perfect. Get a roof rack, and consider one that's removable = if this=20 will be your daily driver. They can be noisey and make your sucky = fuel=20 economy suckier. Plus, when the roof's open you'll think it's = Valhalla=20 time.
 
 
1) Besides lrx.com are there any other good web resources for = finding=20 rovers for sale?
 
>LRX is really good. Try your local paper too.

2) Any good web resources for finding good information on the = various=20 Range  Rover model years, etc.…?
 
 
 
>Ask away. We're a helpful lot.


3) Are there particular model years that are substantially = problematic=20 or troublesome?  When = do they=20 become so complex that you basically need to go to the dealer for=20 service?
 
>Stay pre-BMW. 89-92 are pretty nice.

4) What kind of problems specific to RRs do I want to look out = for=20 when  looking at these?
 
 
>Rusty tailgate and wheel wells. Slipping tranny on a ragged = out=20 one. Headliners. Just accept that the stereo sucks and get over that = one. A=20 well maintained engine will serve you nicely. Avoid a dumbass'=20 trash.


5) What different motor variations available?  I have seen the 3.5L and = the 3.9L=20 engines but are there others that I should seek out or stay away = from?  Any pros or cons with the = 3.5 of the=20 3.9?
 
 
>On SWBs, they are 3.9 from '89 on. Features of the 87 and = 88's=20 include a manually locking diff, but they are 3.5.
The 3.5 ain't bad, but the 3.9 has many improvements. I'm = personally=20 quite fond of the early 89s, but anything up between '89 and = '92 should=20 be a good balance of performance and simplicity. The LWBs have the=20 4.2.


6) What tranny do most prefer as far as auto vs. manual?  Which one seems more = durable?  How capable is the auto = tranny=20 off-road?   How = are the=20 manual trannys configured – 4 speed w/ OD or just 5 = speed?
 
 
>All US spec RRs are auto, and they work great. The first = year of=20 the Disco (in the US - 1994) has a manual option.
You should consider a Disco as well, they are marvelous trucks = and can=20 be had for a nice price, since there are more of them. Either way, = the auto=20 trans is the way to go - and I'm a 5-speed guy=20 normally.


7) What’s the real difference between the LWB and SWB = models in terms=20 of  real space?
 
>I've heard quite a bit, but I've never owned one.=20


8) Is a RR just a RR or are there different model sub-variants = besides=20 LWB and SWB versions? 
 
 
>The early Hunters were simple - cloth, manual sunroof, etc, = and the=20 later Hunters were more posh (or maybe it's the other way around). = Great=20 Divides have a shallower airdam, but basically there are two models: =
Standard and County.
County has a chrome bumper, some wood inside and a few other=20 niceties.

9) What else should I know before seriously looking at one to=20 buy?
 
 
>It's better to spend more money on one that's had a good = life, than=20 finding a trashed "bargain."
If you spend $6k and need an engine rebuild and a tranny within = a year,=20 you'll have $13k into it if you do the work yourself and use rebuilt = or used=20 parts. Better to spend $8500 now and get a peach. They are out=20 there.


10) I have seen several on lrx.com that are listed at $5-8K = with=20 150-200K miles on them.  = At what=20 point do these things get to be as much “trouble” as a = Series truck.
 
 
> Day one?
Nah. Heed my words on the "hard life" thing. All 4wds are = expensive to=20 keep on the road, but they are more expensive exponentially if you = get one=20 that's done heavy off-roading - no exception.
A decently maintained RR can go 250k easily. I have a pal who = has=20 nearly half a mil on his and he's thinking about rebuilding after = one more=20 winter. The ancillaries may fail over time, but the engine is good = if you're=20 nice to it - use good oil, change often, service the tranny, and for = the=20 love of god, don't run it hot!


11) What’s it usually take to make a stock RR a decent = off road=20 truck?  Are they good = to go as=20 is or do people  have to go to great lengths with various=20 modifications.  And I = am talking=20 cost here  basically.
 
 
>You say you want to do "light" off-roading, and I assume = you'll=20 keep the fun stuff (    =20 ;)      ) to the Series truck. If so, stock = is=20 really nice. Find a good on and off-road hybrid tire. I personally = hate the=20 BFG All Terrain ( the "no terrain"...) but ask around. I like = Dunlops,=20 Coopers and Armstrongs. Fairly quiet on-road, and pretty good = off-road.=20 Balance often!
Bilsteins and new bushings help, as do decent springs.
I swear a stock RR will shame most trucks in the mud, and you = can drive=20 it to the theatre in style.
 
Where are you? I have friend in VA that has a nice one for = sale.
 
Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC
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