From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 20 00:55:01 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3K4t0N21224 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:55:00 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3K3pAo22100 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3K3p9822097 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23590 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3K38RP11053 for lro-digest-gone; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:08:27 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:08:27 -0400 Message-Id: <200104200308.f3K38RP11053@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #347 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 347 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:53:23 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, RON WARD wrote: :I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I run :a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from the :house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on the :110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? Well, a real horsepower is 750W, so about 6.25 A on 120. So somewhere around 3Hp to blow a 20 amp breaker. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:21:08 -0500 From: "Vel & Maryanne Natarajan" Subject: RE: LRO: Iron Duke conversion I believe the STi version has 270 or so. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On Behalf Of David Scheidt Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 4:51 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: RE: LRO: Iron Duke conversion On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, N Forbes wrote: :Luis, I just checked and it is the 2.0 litre but it only puts out 227hp, not :247 as I thought. Either way, it'd be a fun car. Only 227 HP, huh? - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:25:19 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors - --- RON WARD wrote: > I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I > run a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from > the house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on > the 110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? Yes, especially when its a wussy-ass (that's the hp range below wimpy, btw) oilless type that ends up running all the time, and overheats and the piston locks up. BTDT...the 5hp 60 gallon (oily type) campbell hausfeld I have now will keep the grinder going. Any non 2 stage compressor will run constantly with these kinds of tools. Ratchets and the like aren't the air hogs that grinders and sanders are. But the oiled pistons have much longer duty cycle than the oilless ones. and as for not needing it, al, you are nuts. to each his own, but after using the air tools for a while, you don't want to go back. you can wrap some foam around the tool's exhaust and it will cut the decible level way wya down. just ask the woman that runs the day care center next door to my garage... dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:48:17 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors - --- RON WARD wrote: > I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I > run a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from > the house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on > the 110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? Yes, especially when its a wussy-ass (that's the hp range below wimpy, btw) oilless type that ends up running all the time, and overheats and the piston locks up. BTDT...the 5hp 60 gallon (oily type) campbell hausfeld I have now will keep the grinder going. Any non 2 stage compressor will run constantly with these kinds of tools. Ratchets and the like aren't the air hogs that grinders and sanders are. But the oiled pistons have much longer duty cycle than the oilless ones. and as for not needing it, al, you are nuts. to each his own, but after using the air tools for a while, you don't want to go back. you can wrap some foam around the tool's exhaust and it will cut the decible level way wya down. just ask the woman that runs the day care center next door to my garage... dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:09:03 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors There are comparable belt driven (oil type) compressors to the oil less, direct drive type. Haven't compared them side by side but would reason that belt driven types are going to be a little more expensive BUT NOT A GREAT DEAL more expensive. You can get cheap belt driven and cheap direct drive. For me, it was a choice, have a compressor or have my wife, the neighbors and our cat all pissed off at me. The belt driven type are so much more quieter than the direct drive that there wasn't a choice to be made. As I said, my Coleman belt drive with a 60 gallon tank only cost $419 including the 'paradise tax'. Sure you can get the same model or similar model from other suppliers back in the 'real world' for even less. Have seen a whole bunch of 20-30 gallon tank belt drive models for around $300. There is no reason to go direct drive unless someone gives it to you. That was the only reason that I used to have one. If your buying new, don't even look at a direct drive, you will HEAR about it. FWIW When I was shopping for the compressor last year, checked out Sears only to find out they had dropped all the belt drive compressors. Anyone that knows Sears, knows there was only one reason for this and it wasn't quality. Wandered into a Sears a couple of weeks ago and lo and behold, what did I see but a couple of belt drive compressors. Apparently the word got through to Sear's buyers. BTW, I interviewed the Quincy Portable and found it to be very quiet in operation. If the only supplier in Hawaii hadn't been so greedy, would have bought one. I don't want to have to exit the garage every time the compressor kicks in. The Coleman isn't bad but is not as quiet as the Quincy. Possibly the difference is a cast iron pump on the Quincy vice Aluminum on the Coleman. My neighbors still complain, by the way, but now its about the noise of the air wratchet not the compressor. My old IR oil less 2hp was hooked up to a 15 amp circuit without a problem with it blowing a circuit breaker. The house lights would go very dim when it kicked in, however. I'd go for a 20 amp 110 circuit, if you can swing it. More on air toys: 1. Was having a very hard time installing the RN supplied pop rivets. Just didn't have the strength, despite working out with a rubber ball, to set the rivets and I'd develop riveter elbow if I had to set more than a couple. Also had a tendency not to set them straight as I's cock the tool as I strained to compress the rivet tool. Finally swung for a cheap rivet gun, less than $50. What a revelation, the first time I used it, popped the trigger three or four times thinking that nothing had happened only to discover a perfectly set rivet. It only takes a blink of the eye. Have air chizeled off all the old loose rivets on my trucks and reset them with the heavy duty RN supplied rivets. Only took a little time and virtually no effort. If you've counted the rivets on your truck, you know that's a lot of rivets. 2. Bought a cut off tool, think its a three inch disk variety that takes a thin disk. Normally used in muffler shops, I think. Anyway, cut up the frame on my parts truck in an hour and about 10 of the disks. Finally able to get the engine out of the truck where it had been held captive for 10 years. 3. Not to mention the joy of having air to blow the crap out of bolt holes and all the other nooks and crannies. Amazing what will crawl into a long neglected project. 4. Remember how much fun it was disassemblying the very rusty parts truck without an air wratchet or impact wrench. Not a problem now. Just press the trigger and fastener either comes loose or breaks. In either case, production is about a hundred as fast. No fighting the nuts to the very thread on a bolt. Also great for recycling fasteners. Douse the fastener with lubricant, run the nut on and off and they are good as new. Remember remember what a pain and time waster it was doing it with a hand wratchet. Ah, the joys of a compressor and air tools. I can wax poetic, forever. Aloha Peter Ogilvie Kona Coffee Rover 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering from exposure of the dark side. 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally up and running 12/00. 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust Lots of people have been making a fuss about how bad oilless compressors >are. Now look, they ARE loud, but they also cost a hell of a lot less. I >got a Craftsman 80Gal "6.5HP" compressor a couple of years ago. Yes, I >tend to exit the garage when it's operating, but with 80Gals of air, >unless I'm using the thing constantly I leave the garage more frequently >than that anyway. I drain it every once in a while and there's seldom more than an ounce or so of water in it (reasonably dry climate around here). It cost about 1/3 of what a comparable oil based compressor would have. You can always build a box around the thing and put in some fiberglass insulation, and it'll end up at least as quiet as an oilless version (if I ever remodel the garage, I'm going to do this). Short of it is, oilless isn't that bad. Yes there are better ways to go, but don't feel you need to drop $800 to have compressed air. It's a really useful addition to the shop, and it can be done on a reasonable budget. >-Ben _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:34:20 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors Compressors are one thing that is really good to pickup used. The compressor that powered my air tools last summer, working at a farm equipment garage, was absolutely awesome. They picked it up for 400$ out of another industrial equipment garage, with a burnt out motor. Of course, the owner being somewhat excessive, put a huuuge electric motor on it. The pump was a chunk of cast iron, and had twin inline cylinders, but they were huge. It had about 15 coats of industrial yellow paint. We used air tools that looked something like a half sized howitzer a couple of times, especially when dealing with large tractors, when removing wheels, and the compressor would sit idle for 15 minutes, and then run for two, to recharge a huge tank. I imagine that the thing will outlast the next three shops that employ it. I'm too poor for an air compressor for home, but I do like airing up tires, so... I have an old air brake compressor off a freightliner (I think) that I have been using as an air compressor, on a generic steel tank. The system works pretty good, not enough air to run all kinds of huge tools (3/4" or 1" impact, air grinders, etc), but what I was thinking is hooking the pump up to the rover's PTO, and putting the tank tucked up under the body sides, away from possible bashing, then plumbing in some lines. Maybe stick some air fittings through a little door in the side of the body. Of course, the beauty of this is you can cut the compressor in and out with the PTO lever, and to regulate the pressure, run a bleed off valve set at 120 psi. As pressure builds to maximum, all the excess is released into the atmosphere, making crazy whooshing noises like air brake equipped buses. Crazy whoosing noises at stoplights when stopping next to jeeps would be a big plus for me. Pssssshhhhhhtttt! J-L - ----- Original Message ----- From: RON WARD To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:20 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I run a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from the house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on the 110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? > > >>> konacoffee2@hotmail.com 04/19/01 02:07PM >>> > We have horse power and we have horse power. The old line manufactures have > a very conservative way of measuring horsepower. 2 horsepower on a Quincy > or Ingersoll Rand are very close to the 5hp compressors advertised by Sears, > Coleman, Devilbiss, etc. Check the amperage draw not the horsepower. That > will tell you what the output really is. As a for instance, believe Quincy > makes a nice 2hp 20 gallon portable unit that has the same amperage draw as > the 5hp Sears compressors. Another plus of the Quincy is its a really cool > maroon color and runs very quiet. My old home quality Ingersoll compressor > was a 2hp and worked very well for my use. Even though it was rated at 2hp > by IR, it looked uncannily like the 5hp DeVilbiss, etc. > > If you are buying a home quality compressor from a retail outlet, look for > at least 5 hp. The larger the tank, the better but at least 20 gallons. Do > not buy the oil less compressors because they are very very noisy. > > The compressors from the big guys like IR are really nice and really > expensive. Their smallest compressors typically start at around $800. Not > only are the compressor pumps and motors heavy duty, but the tanks are > better, also. They also require at least 20 amps and possibly 30 amps at > 220volts. Does your garage have the juice to power one of these compressors > > Do you need all that fire power in a compressor for occasional home use. > Probably not unless you are going to do a lot of sand blasting or other use > that requires the pump to be on continuously. I compromised on a $400 > Coleman 6.5hp, 15 amp, 220v, 60 gallon tank compressor. Doesn't cycle as > much as a smaller tank compressor and has the pressure to power all but the > most hungry of power tools. Another plus is its stationary. Don't have to > worry about friends wanting to borrow it. > > Last but not least. The home compressors don't have a super high quality > tank. There have been a few reports of rusting out from the inside on > compressors that have not had the air bled off, when not in use. Release > the air pressure after each use. It also drains moisture in the tank and > should greatly extend the tank's life. I replaced the PITA pet cock with a > street elbow a short length of pipe (nipple) and a ball check valve to make > releasing the pressure very easy. From experience, found that getting down > on my hands and knees and groping under the tank to find the valve, then > trying to remember which way it had to be turned to release pressure, always > going the wrong way, bruising my fingers in the process, didn't encourage > releasing the pressure on a daily basis. The street elbow and nipple also > act as a reservoir so small amounts of water doesn't pool at the bottom of > the tank. > > Aloha > Peter > > > >From: "Hope Peter" > >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net > >To: > >Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:38 -1000 > > > > > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > > > > > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 > >is > > > > more than adequate. > > > ajr > > > Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This > > > probably why you have never come to love airtools. > > > John and Muddy > > > >Have to agree with that. > >I am not saying that you need a 10hp cast pump mounted on a 120 gallon > >tank, > >but 1.5 sounds like a pancake compressor used by roofers. > > > >For a home shop I would recommend 5hp minimum and a 60 gallon tank. > >Shooting paint, using a sand blaster, or running a die grinder or sander > >will suck down air very fast, but for a hobbiest the above size will work > >well. I only spray small bits and panels at the house, use the downdraft > >paint booth over at Hickham for bigger jobs. Anyway I have a 6hp pump, but > >only a 40 gal tank and it works, and it's on wheels. But I plan on getting > >a bigger tank in the furture. > >Pete > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:55:31 -0500 From: "Vel & Maryanne Natarajan" Subject: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) Peter, I've always wondered about those rivet guns I see in Harbor Freight. Your post has convinced me that when I replace the cappings on my truck, that I'll be using real round-head rivets and the rivet gun. When setting the rivets, are there any special techniques (bucking bar, or whatever it is when setting by hand), or do you just set the rivet in the hole, and pull the trigger? Regards,, Vel - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On Behalf Of Peter Ogilvie Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:09 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors More on air toys: 1. Was having a very hard time installing the RN supplied pop rivets. Just didn't have the strength, despite working out with a rubber ball, to set the rivets and I'd develop riveter elbow if I had to set more than a couple. Also had a tendency not to set them straight as I's cock the tool as I strained to compress the rivet tool. Finally swung for a cheap rivet gun, less than $50. What a revelation, the first time I used it, popped the trigger three or four times thinking that nothing had happened only to discover a perfectly set rivet. It only takes a blink of the eye. Have air chizeled off all the old loose rivets on my trucks and reset them with the heavy duty RN supplied rivets. Only took a little time and virtually no effort. If you've counted the rivets on your truck, you know that's a lot of rivets. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:44:36 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) The rivet guns are for the pop rivets, not the round head type. You need an air chizel, a bit and a bucking bar to set the round head types. I have the information on a supplier somewhere. If I can remember where, I'll send you the info. Haven't tried setting the round heads but apparently its a matter of putting a 'bucking bar' over one end and then use the airchisel with the proper bit to mushroom the other end. Think the 'bucking bar' is just a flat piece with a puka the shape of the domed head of the rivet. The chizel bit is probably an indented rod that fits over the other end of the rivet. You use the air chizel to pound on one end and hold the other end with the 'bucking bar'. That's my understanding of the procedure, someone who has actually done it, chime in if I'm wrong. The blind rivets and setting gun are super simple. Stick the rivet in the gun, push the rivet in the hole, pull the trigger and your done. BTW There are a bunch of different types of blind rivets. The ones from RN are way stronger, and take a lot more force to set, than the ones I bought at my local Ace hardware. I've used the RN rivets to replace the domed rivets without any problems so far. When I build my 'Sunday' truck, will get the tools and use the domed rivets where they once were, however. Aloha Peter >From: "Vel & Maryanne Natarajan" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:55:31 -0500 > >Peter, > >I've always wondered about those rivet guns I see in Harbor Freight. Your >post has convinced me that when I replace the cappings on my truck, that >I'll be using real round-head rivets and the rivet gun. > >When setting the rivets, are there any special techniques (bucking bar, or >whatever it is when setting by hand), or do you just set the rivet in the >hole, and pull the trigger? > >Regards,, >Vel > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On >Behalf Of Peter Ogilvie >Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:09 PM >To: lro@works.team.net >Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors > >More on air toys: >1. Was having a very hard time installing the RN supplied pop rivets. Just >didn't have the strength, despite working out with a rubber ball, to set >the >rivets and I'd develop riveter elbow if I had to set more than a couple. >Also had a tendency not to set them straight as I's cock the tool as I >strained to compress the rivet tool. Finally swung for a cheap rivet gun, >less than $50. What a revelation, the first time I used it, popped the >trigger three or four times thinking that nothing had happened only to >discover a perfectly set rivet. It only takes a blink of the eye. Have >air >chizeled off all the old loose rivets on my trucks and reset them with the >heavy duty RN supplied rivets. Only took a little time and virtually no >effort. If you've counted the rivets on your truck, you know that's a lot >of rivets. > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:18:46 -0500 From: "Keith Armstrong" Subject: LRO: Re: X-fer cases Oh sure! All this talk about how robust the Series x-fer case is and I limp home in low this afternoon after a short bout of really nasty growling :( Thanks guys! Keith Armstrong Des Moines, Iowa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:58:16 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: special tool Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:22:28 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool "Faure, Marin" wrote: >> But > many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal > tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") >No, Marin, it is not. The word for which you search is "castellated." As in reminiscent of castle battlements, where archers hide behind the high parts and shoot through the low parts.... Okay, but I at least ought to get credit for having the word right. I just couldn't spell it for beans, nor did my fabulous, employer-supplied spell-checker have it in its pathetic data base. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:02:23 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: special tool Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:26:06 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool >>Faure, Marin" wrote: > The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut >Oh, and that should be "bizarro"; "bizarre" and "bazaar" both have one "z", and the angular alternate Superman universe to which you refer was spelled, after "bizarre," "Bizarro." I was actually referring to the bizarro world as used in "Seinfeld" in which Elaine meets three people who are similar in some ways but not in others to Jerry, Kramer, and George. However, I suspect the spelling is the same as the Superman thing to which you refer. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:16:44 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Powder coating question How tough is powder coating? At some point in the not-too-distant future I need to have my SIII's wheels sandblasted and repainted as a couple of them have some surface rust and the paint on all of them is pretty sorry. My initial thought was to have all five wheels sandblasted, and then I would primer them and paint them with a commercial spray color that I've used before that more or less resembles Limestone (my entire vehicle and the wheels were Limestone from the factory). Several years ago, when I was first contemplating doing this, a friend of mine in N. California who was in the Land Rover parts business but isn't anymore suggested powder coating instead of painting. I located an outfit in Tacoma that did powder coating, but for various reasons I never got around to actually doing anything about it. Now that my SIII needs new tires, I thought it might be a good opportunity to spruce up the wheels at the same time. The advantage of painting them is that it's easy to touch them up if the paint gets scratched off. The advantage (so far as I know) of powder coating is that it looks better and is maybe tougher than paint. BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? Thanks. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:11:40 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: LRO: result of the polarity switch Just a followup: the truck was set up as positive ground before, despite unusual instrument wiring/notatings. Now it's negative. It was an easy switch as I suspected - but I appreciate the information that allowed me to confirm the polarity of all the bits before I started changing the wiring. I didn't want to end up damaging something due to ignorance, although my electrical knowledge is good enough to tell which is the ground strap and read a circuit diagram :) In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:40:24 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it your duty to: a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. b. Alter virtually every circuit to the extent that it's easier to get a new wiring harness than correct your "improvements". Oh, and use loads of wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. c. Never replace panels, B-O-N-D-O! Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's Association) 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Tanner [mailto:keith@miata.net] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:12 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: result of the polarity switch Just a followup: the truck was set up as positive ground before, despite unusual instrument wiring/notatings. Now it's negative. It was an easy switch as I suspected - but I appreciate the information that allowed me to confirm the polarity of all the bits before I started changing the wiring. I didn't want to end up damaging something due to ignorance, although my electrical knowledge is good enough to tell which is the ground strap and read a circuit diagram :) In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:49:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Powder coating question On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Faure, Marin wrote: :BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match :Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't :care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets :whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the A good powder-coater should be able to match the color. The color palate isn't nearly as broad as conventional paint, but it should include something close enough for limestone. I don't have any experience with powder-coating wheels, so I can't comment, other than to say that powder coating done well is much more durable than paint. Surface prep is key. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:02:03 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: result of the polarity switch On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Keith Tanner wrote: : :In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going :to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. : After you converth the truck back to positive earth, right? david - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:30:12 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch Here I was thinking I was the only one this happened to... - -todd >From: "Hoult, Bryan" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: "'lro@works.team.net'" >Subject: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:40:24 -0700 > >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it >your duty to: > >a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 >monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. > >b. Alter virtually every circuit to the extent that it's easier to get a >new wiring harness than correct your "improvements". Oh, and use loads of >wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. > >c. Never replace panels, B-O-N-D-O! > > >Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's Association) > >62 88 >70 109 "Genie" > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Tanner [mailto:keith@miata.net] >Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:12 PM >To: lro@works.team.net >Subject: LRO: result of the polarity switch > > >Just a followup: the truck was set up as positive ground before, despite >unusual instrument wiring/notatings. Now it's negative. It was an easy >switch as I suspected - but I appreciate the information that allowed me to >confirm the polarity of all the bits before I started changing the wiring. >I didn't want to end up damaging something due to ignorance, although my >electrical knowledge is good enough to tell which is the ground strap and >read a circuit diagram :) > >In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going >to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. > >Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:39:03 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing I'm sorry, Jean-Leon, but Bruce has got a point here. You've got a moral obligation to all of us. Luis M. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce D. Fowler To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:24 AM Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Leon Morin > > > :Nope. I'd be too ashamed to post it. The truth is, after such long hours, > it > :still looks like a clapped out IIA, with trailer taillights, rusted out > :doortops, and a peeling roof. > > : "Never been into looks." > > What? > If your not into "looks" then post a snap of it. > > Bruce F. > PS.Timshel dosn't look much better..... > > > > > > > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 07/03/01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 04:50:07 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors Probably, unless you shut off the other stuff on that circuit. Seems the surge/spike comes when the compressor first kicks on. If I forget and plug my compressor into the same circuit as my radio, desk lamp and fan, it pops as soon as I turn the AC on. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "RON WARD" To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:20 AM Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I run a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from the house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on the 110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? > > >>> konacoffee2@hotmail.com 04/19/01 02:07PM >>> > We have horse power and we have horse power. The old line manufactures have > a very conservative way of measuring horsepower. 2 horsepower on a Quincy > or Ingersoll Rand are very close to the 5hp compressors advertised by Sears, > Coleman, Devilbiss, etc. Check the amperage draw not the horsepower. That > will tell you what the output really is. As a for instance, believe Quincy > makes a nice 2hp 20 gallon portable unit that has the same amperage draw as > the 5hp Sears compressors. Another plus of the Quincy is its a really cool > maroon color and runs very quiet. My old home quality Ingersoll compressor > was a 2hp and worked very well for my use. Even though it was rated at 2hp > by IR, it looked uncannily like the 5hp DeVilbiss, etc. > > If you are buying a home quality compressor from a retail outlet, look for > at least 5 hp. The larger the tank, the better but at least 20 gallons. Do > not buy the oil less compressors because they are very very noisy. > > The compressors from the big guys like IR are really nice and really > expensive. Their smallest compressors typically start at around $800. Not > only are the compressor pumps and motors heavy duty, but the tanks are > better, also. They also require at least 20 amps and possibly 30 amps at > 220volts. Does your garage have the juice to power one of these compressors > > Do you need all that fire power in a compressor for occasional home use. > Probably not unless you are going to do a lot of sand blasting or other use > that requires the pump to be on continuously. I compromised on a $400 > Coleman 6.5hp, 15 amp, 220v, 60 gallon tank compressor. Doesn't cycle as > much as a smaller tank compressor and has the pressure to power all but the > most hungry of power tools. Another plus is its stationary. Don't have to > worry about friends wanting to borrow it. > > Last but not least. The home compressors don't have a super high quality > tank. There have been a few reports of rusting out from the inside on > compressors that have not had the air bled off, when not in use. Release > the air pressure after each use. It also drains moisture in the tank and > should greatly extend the tank's life. I replaced the PITA pet cock with a > street elbow a short length of pipe (nipple) and a ball check valve to make > releasing the pressure very easy. From experience, found that getting down > on my hands and knees and groping under the tank to find the valve, then > trying to remember which way it had to be turned to release pressure, always > going the wrong way, bruising my fingers in the process, didn't encourage > releasing the pressure on a daily basis. The street elbow and nipple also > act as a reservoir so small amounts of water doesn't pool at the bottom of > the tank. > > Aloha > Peter > > > >From: "Hope Peter" > >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net > >To: > >Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:38 -1000 > > > > > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > > > > > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 > >is > > > > more than adequate. > > > ajr > > > Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This > > > probably why you have never come to love airtools. > > > John and Muddy > > > >Have to agree with that. > >I am not saying that you need a 10hp cast pump mounted on a 120 gallon > >tank, > >but 1.5 sounds like a pancake compressor used by roofers. > > > >For a home shop I would recommend 5hp minimum and a 60 gallon tank. > >Shooting paint, using a sand blaster, or running a die grinder or sander > >will suck down air very fast, but for a hobbiest the above size will work > >well. I only spray small bits and panels at the house, use the downdraft > >paint booth over at Hickham for bigger jobs. Anyway I have a 6hp pump, but > >only a 40 gal tank and it works, and it's on wheels. But I plan on getting > >a bigger tank in the furture. > >Pete > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:05:53 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch I once looked at a Jaguar XJ6 that had a Chevy V8 under the hood. The heater was controlled with a tap from an exterior faucet like you'd see on a garden hose. Keith 19/04/2001 -0700, you wrote: >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it >your duty to: > >a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 >monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. > >b. Alter virtually every circuit to the extent that it's easier to get a >new wiring harness than correct your "improvements". Oh, and use loads of >wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. > >c. Never replace panels, B-O-N-D-O! > > >Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's Association) > >62 88 >70 109 "Genie" > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Tanner [mailto:keith@miata.net] >Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:12 PM >To: lro@works.team.net >Subject: LRO: result of the polarity switch > > >Just a followup: the truck was set up as positive ground before, despite >unusual instrument wiring/notatings. Now it's negative. It was an easy >switch as I suspected - but I appreciate the information that allowed me to >confirm the polarity of all the bits before I started changing the wiring. >I didn't want to end up damaging something due to ignorance, although my >electrical knowledge is good enough to tell which is the ground strap and >read a circuit diagram :) > >In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going >to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. > >Keith ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #347 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 20 15:08:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3KJ88N23666 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:08:09 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3KI4JE19119 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3KI4J819115 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08755 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3KHQmB27877 for lro-digest-gone; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:48 -0400 Message-Id: <200104201726.f3KHQmB27877@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #349 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 349 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:39:46 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill At rest atop the hole, and fill it to the line. Brad Crittenden wrote: > > Hello: > > Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive? I've > located the filler plug with the little dipstick attached. There is a > single notch towards the bottom. > > Q) What does the notch indicate: high or low level? > Q) Do you check after threading the plug all the way in or simply at rest > atop the hole? > > Seems pretty basic but I'm confused. A quick search via Google showed > others confused over the years but no answers. Also, neither the Haynes > manual nor the Land Rover manual explain it. > > Thanks, > > Brad > '75 Series III - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:41:15 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors [Easton Trevor A] TeriAnn wrote > It is with mine. And it is pretty much alone on a 15 amp circuit. If it > automatically turns off I need to rush to the compressor and turn it's > switch off. If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7 > pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker. [Easton Trevor A] A couple of options. Put it on a separate circuit with a slow blow fuse that will accommodate the starting current. Fit a 3 Way valve between the compressor and the tank to unload the compressor for starting. It starts with pressure port open to atmosphere and then sitches to tank when the motor has spun up to speed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 06:43:21 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch >I think the best thing for me to do is to continue bodging away with the >help of my five drunken monkeys and just never sell the damn thing. I have a friend who owns a 289 AC Cobra. He is the second owner and the car was just a few years old when he bought it. He tells people he is his own dreaded previous owner. He had no idea he was going to keep the car so long and that it was ever going to be worth anything. He keeps running across those bodges he did 20 plus years ago and forgot about. I occasionally do the same with The Green Rover. I can't help but wonder what was going through my head at the time. Morals to the story; don't settle for bodges because if you keep the LR they will come back and haunt you and document your wiring. There have been a number of times I have saved lots of hours making repairs or additional electrical modifications to The Green Rover because I do two things: I keep current wiring diagrams of the whole car the way it really is and I buy the striped wire and maintain the Lucas wire colour code. My second car came to me after an engine fire. I rewired it completely in a single coloured wire. When I went to test everything out became fully aware of the extent of my folly. But I got such a deal on this roll of wire with this nifty Teflon insulation. Famous last words "But it seemed like such a good idea at the time!" TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:00:12 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing Let me get the axles underneath it. When it has 8 bolt wheels, I'll snap some pictures... J-L - ----- Original Message ----- From: Luis Ml Gutiérrez To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing > I'm sorry, Jean-Leon, but Bruce has got a point here. > You've got a moral obligation to all of us. > > > Luis M. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce D. Fowler > To: > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jean-Leon Morin > > > > > > :Nope. I'd be too ashamed to post it. The truth is, after such long hours, > > it > > :still looks like a clapped out IIA, with trailer taillights, rusted out > > :doortops, and a peeling roof. > > > > : "Never been into looks." > > > > What? > > If your not into "looks" then post a snap of it. > > > > Bruce F. > > PS.Timshel dosn't look much better..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 07/03/01 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:13:18 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing Bruce? Do you have a picture of it? Send it to me! If you do, I'll put in on my webpage! I'm not ashamed of people seeing it. They might quit bugging me about how originality must be preserved at all costs. Hey, Valdez isn't meant to be pretty. Pretty Land-Rovers are NOT the way to have fun im my opinion. Valdez is rough, I have said that. Luis, if you are expecting a conversion beautifully executed, a la Timm Cooper, or TeriAnn, you are out of luck. There are more dents in Valdy than a golf ball, and the rear springs on it right now are totally mismatched, one is from Bruce Fowler's parts truck, which happens to be an 88. Lean, big time. But, after repeated requests from the passengers, I might actually devote some time to the little things, once I get the axles and brakes in. I have found a local source for the SUPER CARPET that Bruce uses, so I might try and kill the noise. That should be nice. Maybe paint the roof a nice white, or something. I dunno. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 07:16:38 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors >>If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7 >>pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker. > >Teriann, are you sure the compressor's unloader valve is working right? >This is all the classic symptoms of a stuck unloader valve - compressor's >don't start well against back pressure. Golly, what's an unloader valve? DO cheap compressors have them? I like it when my file system actually works. I just pulled out the manual to my Rand 4000 compressor and low & behold there is someting called a "unloader valve" I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion!! TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:22:52 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) > > Is this before or after you beat your head against the wall trying to figure > out why that bucking bar you've bought just won't fit into your air hammer? > -todd No, no, no. Beat your head against the bucking bar, that way you aren't just wasting the energy. Newton or Einstein or someone figured out that there was a finite supply of energy. If you use it on one thing, it's robbed from somewhere else. That's why I sit on the sofa so much. Figure if I sit here every night after work and let the wife take care of the house chores, there will still be enough potential energy available for me to work on the Rover on the weekends. The difficult part is to not waste any energy arguing with her about it. She tricked me once, and I wasted so much energy in a silly little hour long arguemnt that I couldn't work on the Rover for over a month. Thats my story and I am sticking to it. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:58:48 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch > >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! > Consider it > >your duty to: > >a, b, c... e. Weld wobbly door tops to the door bottoms (sloppily, and be sure to weld the galv trim to both) and weld together all the galvy. trim capping the tub. This greatly increases the structural integrity of the vehicle and makes removing all the trim that you painted over a nice afternoon job. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:53:02 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO:in lew of? Since Pete asked this as a question, I'll answer it. in lew (lou??) of It's "in lieu of." You should've known no French spelling could be as simple as "lew" or "lou." bill On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:50:28 -1000 "Hope Peter" writes: > > Just don't try and figure out how to use a torque wrench as part of > the > > operation. > > > > Uhm, use the 1/2" drive, in 1 foot increments, plated and polished > torque > wrench in lew (lou??) of the bucking bar right?? > Pete > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:49:35 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: LRO: Re: Pictures of JL's vehicle Jeeze, I really don't know when all this hype is about... Valdez is... a 66 109 plain - O regular, with series III wings, and the breakfast is moved forward one inch to accomodate the radiator, so the hood sits up too high. The tranny hump is a huge affair, the same height as the seatbox, same width as the bulkhead center section, and was cobble together in an hour using diamond plate aluminum and angle aluminum. It looks ugly, and you can see the ground through the panel gaps. I have to redo it with a couple of roadsigns. The frame is custom, so it has about 3" more ground clearance than a regular rover, and the frame rails are basically rock sliders. The underhood looks like I sprayed it in oil, as I was battling major oil leakage a while back, and am waiting for warmer weather to clean up the motor and paint it cat yellow, as well as tidy up all the wiring and basically make the Ford engine look like it came from the factory. I am actually going to wrap my wiring harnesses in hockey tape as it looks like the braided stuff the factory used. Most of the modifications are not apparent on the outside, unless you really really look and notice the bumpers, frame rails, etc. It's just a regular 109 on the outside, with the paint peeling off of the roof. The interior is a mess, loaded with all kinds of dirt and crud. Not a nice place. If course, the new axles will make it look quite different on the outside, and I am still debating whether I will do a spring over or leave the springs as is. I might have to do a spring over, since the axles were destind to be run under the spring, on the donor vehicle. This gives me monstrous lift, which is NOT what I'm after. 2" higher would be about the limit, but I may have to go higher if I can't get the axles to fit where I want them. Many of the mods I have debated on the list, such as the axle swap, the larger tires, the spring over, are at the "I have the parts accumulated, but not the time" stage. But, hey, college exams are over in a week, and then I demanded that my job leave me alone for a period of two weeks, for me to get some work done to the beast. The axles will be first, as I need the higher gears and would like the wider track and improved turning radius, as well as the locking diffs, after that, I'll move on to beautification, and then to the gizmo stage, as in roll bar, onboard air, spare carrier, hilift mounting spot, roof rack... It never ends. Still want a picture? It'll be obsolete in two months, as I'll have a completely different animal. That goes Psssht. J-L ______________________________________________________ Jean-Leon Morin AKA "Dr. Detroit" Valdez - 1966 IIA 109 freak Slagmobile - 195? II parts bin - ----- Original Message ----- From: David Pillekers To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:50 AM Subject: LRO: Pictures of JL's vehicle > Hello all, > > JL, if you want to email me a picture I can bung it in my ISP account > and post the URL. > > I must admit I'm more than a little curious about how valdez looks... > > BTW, next time your going to make jokes about air brake noises and > jeeps, can you post a spoilers. My coworkers think I'm losing it cos I'm > laughing at my keyboard again. > > Reminds me of a defender I saw at one point. It was a 110 truck cab in > the sorta offwhite grey colour. Back of it had a canvas cover. Had a > modded v8 running 35 inch swampers and air lockers at both ends. This > thing emerged, in no great hurry, from a mud pit, chugged along to some > slightly dryer ground, and as she stoped the there was the woooshh of > the air. The combined effect off the sounds and the look of the vehicle > was impressive. Mind you, I'd just made it through the same pit with > 235/85R16 MT's in a stock vehicle. But from a dramatic point of view it > was an impressive entrance. :-) > > Regards, > > David. Melb, Australia - who really want a Garage again so he can re > accumulate all the good toys > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:45:00 From: "Chris Oles" Subject: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Ivan, I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do. I was amazed at the number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around. I still stop and wonder at the brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric manufacturers. Thanks for taking me down memory lane! Chris 70 SIIa 88 "And then there was "Christine," an Alco DL-109, a diesel locomotive styled by Raymond Loewy, owned by Rock Island (number 621) and repowered by EMD. EMD is ElectroMotive Division, General Motors. The DL-109 http://exotic.railfan.net/alcodl109.htm is one of the *classic* locomotives; " _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:58:42 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors >Golly, what's an unloader valve? DO cheap compressors have them? Yes, it should. An unloader valve is what Trevor described - it's a valve that unloads the pressure on the compressor when it stops pumping. Basically, it's a check valve with a bleed hole in it - the compressor stops pumping, the bleeder releases the line pressure, and the check valve shuts off the tank connection to keep it from losing all its air. The one on my compressor (the head is an oilless 3-cylinder monster that used to run a whole dentist's office of tools and a 100-gallon tank) used to stick occasionally - a good whack with a wrench makes it unstick....8*) ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:01:33 -0400 From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: Transferred "Keith Armstrong" wrote: >Oh sure! >All this talk about how robust the Series x-fer case is and I limp home in >low this afternoon after a short bout of really nasty growling :( >Thanks guys! Nigel's Disease strikes again! *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----* | | | A. P. ("Sandy") Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 | | www.roav.org | | (original owner) (pre-production) | *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:01:35 -0400 From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: Powder coat "Faure, Marin" wrote: >BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match >Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't >care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets >whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? "Almond" as applied to 90% of the refrigerators in the US is close enough to 'limestone' for government purposes. The paint place shouldn't have any problems. Powder coat is kinda brittle, tho'...I would think it would chip too easily, especially around the rims where the tire machine runs the bead seating/breaking arm thingy. I think powder coat is better suited to places that don't get such regular impacts, like bumpers and such. There was a place near me that did hot rod conversions and whatnot and had ovens big enough to bake entire frames. A powder coated frame sure looked great, though. *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----* | | | A. P. ("Sandy") Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 | | www.roav.org | | (original owner) (pre-production) | *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:00:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: Powder coating question John and Muddy wrote: It seems to me that powder coating wheels would be a waste of time and effort. . Once the integrity of the coat is lost moisture will penetrate and cause rust under coat. John and Muddy [SJH] Indeed. My brother took his 88's wheels to the powdercoater Marin mentions, in Tacoma, and had his PC'd limestone. The lg holes are not the problem he's mentioned. Instead, where the "spokes" meet the rim, the PC'er was unable to get penetration of the powder, and rust has taken hold in that crack, evidenced by rust stains. And this after about a year, and under a relatively salt free Fircrest (Tacoma) Washington environment. They do not live near the sound. The brush bar I recently removed and sold had been PC'd and it had started to peel and rust near the sharp edges of the steel plate mounts. Of course, PC'ing is cheap enough that things like a brush bar can be removed and recoated, but I would stick with paint for wheels. I've determined only to PC interior bits. My 2 cents. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:25:28 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Hi All-- Chris Oles wrote: > > Ivan, > > I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do. I was amazed at the > number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around. I still stop and wonder at the > brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and > identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric > manufacturers. Thanks for taking me down memory lane! > I remember when there were *three* major builders. And I went to EMDs 50th Anniversary party in LaGrange. I still have pictures from that event. I'll post them when I get around to scanning them. I've even got shots of a shortline running Fairbanks-Morse down in Southern Indiana. Now, *there* was an engine to die for;-) -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:18:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously A friend of mine just called me at work. He's picking up his rebuilt transmission and will be installing it and I guess his OD over the next day or so. He asked what the torque setting for the OD nut is. Apparently he doesn't have the printout from OVLR's site of the Fairey manual (I think it has the setting), and I don't have the info here at work. Can someone post the figure so I can pass it to him? Thanks Simon CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments to it are intended for use only by the addressee(s), and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, copy or disseminate this message or any attachments to it, or to take any action based on them. If you have received this message in error, please notify me immediately by telephone at (503) 223-4131, and permanently delete the original and any copy of this message. Simon J. Harding Attorney at Law Schulte Anderson Downes Aronson & Bittner, P.C. 503.223.4131 sharding@schulte-law.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:45:23 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously 100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the blunt chisel.....8*) ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:37 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) Care to explain this? I assume waht you're getting at here is that some Fairbanks-Morse Deisel locos used old WWII sub engines? Do tell....sounds fascinating. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:00:15 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Fairey overdrive oil fill Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:00:02 -0400 From: "Brad Crittenden" Subject: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill >Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive? I have always filled the Fairey overdrive with lube oil to the notch in the dipstick with the dipstick unscrewed. In other words, stick the thing in the hole until the cap rests on the housing, but don't screw it in. This will ensure that the overdrive has sufficient oil for lubrication. Bear in mind that Fairey overdrives can lose oil fairly quickly by blowing it out the breather hole in the cap. If you drive your Land Rover a lot, as I did my SIII for the first ten years I owned it as a daily driver, the overdrive oil level should be checked once a week. I can assure you that if you let the level run low even a bit, the in-out sleeved drive shaft will bind and pop the overdrive out of gear. Let this happen three or four times, as I did, and the small teeth on the overdrive input gear will finally shear and take the mating teeth on the inside of the overdrive input shaft with them. End of overdrive, and you face a total rebuild, as other damage is done internally as well. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:00:36 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: LRO: RE: Powder coating question Marin, My neighbor has a very nice late IIa with limestone wheels he had powder coated. The company that dipped them is on the waterfront in Everett just north of the 12th ave. boat ramp - but I don't recall their name. The color was simply called "off-white" and it is such a close match to limestone that it's almost impossible to note a difference. He's the type that would walk around with a permanent pucker if the color match wasn't almost exact. He doesn't off-road his truck since, like you, he's owned it since the early 70's and it is in very good original condition. For this reason, the powder coat on the wheels is great. My truck gets thrashed, so I would only consider galvanizing or painting my wheels. The 109 will get galvanized SIII (deeper offset) wheels when it's ready. If you'd like to pursue the coating company in Everett, I'll hunt it down for you. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Faure, Marin [mailto:Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:17 PM To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' Subject: LRO: Powder coating question How tough is powder coating? At some point in the not-too-distant future I need to have my SIII's wheels sandblasted and repainted as a couple of them have some surface rust and the paint on all of them is pretty sorry. My initial thought was to have all five wheels sandblasted, and then I would primer them and paint them with a commercial spray color that I've used before that more or less resembles Limestone (my entire vehicle and the wheels were Limestone from the factory). Several years ago, when I was first contemplating doing this, a friend of mine in N. California who was in the Land Rover parts business but isn't anymore suggested powder coating instead of painting. I located an outfit in Tacoma that did powder coating, but for various reasons I never got around to actually doing anything about it. Now that my SIII needs new tires, I thought it might be a good opportunity to spruce up the wheels at the same time. The advantage of painting them is that it's easy to touch them up if the paint gets scratched off. The advantage (so far as I know) of powder coating is that it looks better and is maybe tougher than paint. BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? Thanks. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:03:59 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: Delco Alternator Miss Golightly was bastardized last night with a Delco Alternator so it's goodbye to those concours prizes :-) Drove her to the office today as a special treat (And to be sure all worked well for this weekends Auto Flea Market at Ancaster Fairground) Thanks AJR for the information on the OVLR site. Followed your installation and it was a breeze. Just one change, I decided it was better to relieve the mounting bracket for the necessary clearance rather than weaken the alternator casting by cutting away the flange. BTW the alternator was a two pulley unit from the wreckers at $35 Can. Vehicle of origin-who knows, it came from a large pile of GM alternators and included a warranty. (If it don't work, we'll exchange it) I can fit a power steering pump using the spare pulley!! Then all I'll need is a power steering box. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:13:35 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Powder coating Based on the input I've gotten on and off the list, and my own reasoning, I think the best thing to do to my wheels is have them sandblasted to remove the old paint and surface rust, and then prime and paint them. I don't want to galvanize them, as paint tends to have a tough time sticking to galvanizing, and I don't want silver wheels. Thanks for the input- it seems powder coating is more suited for the show-car crowd. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:15:39 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer. > 100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the > blunt chisel.....8*) > > ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:38 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: RE: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch I only make the reference to the drunk monkeys because I am projecting my personal experience for purposes of supposition. Had I not actually employed drunken monkeys on several occasions myself, I would not be able to draw the conclusion the PO's of my LR's must have. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Rick Grant [mailto:rgrant@cadvision.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 8:29 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch At 18:40 19/04/01 -0700, Hoult, Bryan, wrote >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it >your duty to: > >a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 >monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. This actually quite terrifies me. Despite the nonsense I've had to undo from the previous PO's, especially wiring, with my machine, I just know that I am creating any number of ludicrous PO situations. While I have no intention of selling anytime soon, I still don't want to be in a position some day of reading this list and seeing reams of outrageous laughter and indignation over something that I had done and that some hapless new owner has had to deal with. I think the best thing for me to do is to continue bodging away with the help of my five drunken monkeys and just never sell the damn thing. Come to think of it, the monkeys are usually too drunk to help in any way so any PO issues are mine entirely, and I fear there are likely to be a number of them. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:37:45 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Delco Alternator Nyet prablem, tovarich. I'll look forward to seeing it at OVLR in June. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:41:44 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously Trevor, please go to the Brittanica site and look up the term HUMOR.....8*) ajr >You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer. >> blunt chisel.....8*) > > ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:48:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - The impact velocity of the two pound sledge bears a direct correlation to the number of ounces of fermented malt beverage contained within each nonferrous metal or silica based material fermented beverage containerization device, of course also accounting for the weight of each said containerization device, the number of units consumed and the time over which consumed. Account must also be taken of the dangerous and haphazard manner in which the two pound sledge may be wielded once a certain threshold amount of fermented malt beverage is consumed (this level varies from one individual to the next). We must accept that the force applied depends entirely on the blow landing on the intended target and not some other part of the land rover or the metacarpal phalanges (fingers) of the subject. Finally, account must be taken of the nature and quality of the malt beverage as well as of whether the malt beverage has been subjected to a distillation and aging process rendering it a beverage commonly referred to as scotch, or if it has not, and has instead been processed into "beer." thus my reference to a sixer of PBR. I admit leaving out one significant detail, that being whether or not the sixer is of "pounders" or the usual 12 ounce nonferrous metal containerization units. Recent studies have revealed no, repeat no significant variation in the level of force applied by nine out of ten land rover owners surveyed when a comparison was made between the larger (big mout, aka "guzzler") pop tab openings in said nonferrous metal containerization units versus the older and now obsolete smaller openings. Simon "I still need the figure folks" Harding -----Original Message----- From: Easton Trevor A [SMTP:trevor_easton@dofasco.ca] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 12:16 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@works.team.net Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously You failed to specify the impact velocity for the 2 lb hammer. > 100 foot pounds, or 5 whacks with the 2-pound sledge on the edge of the > blunt chisel.....8*) > > ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:00:41 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= Subject: LRO: RE: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Is that a trick question? Luis M. :-) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Easton Trevor A To: 'lro@works.team.net' Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:06 AM Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers > So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest? > > > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 16/04/01 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:02:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: cutting off bolts Is a cutoff wheel significantly better than a normal metal grinding wheel speedwise? I have to remove some seriously nasty seized rusty screws (the broadheaded slotted screws) securing the middle floor in my 109 SW as well as some bolts holding in my seat brackets. PO had carpet back there and every bolt rusted up nicely, some so bad there's little evidence of a slot!! I want to do the job faster but I was wondering is there a significant difference here (I assume there is) in terms of speed, and is a cutoff wheel a good idea when working close to the au floor panel which I want to avoid damaging? I want to proceed faster, but don't want to damage anything. I was thinking a cutoff wheel could simply slice down through the head of each screw to floor or washer level and a chisel would then make quick work of the head. Grinder (4.5 inch dewalt) just seems kinda slow. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:08:30 -0500 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Luis_Ml_Guti=E9rrez?= Subject: RE: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Anyway, it is encouraging to be set apart from the "standard" Thanks, John. Luis M. - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Cranfield To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:41 AM Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers > > > Easton Trevor A wrote: > > > > So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest? > > In spite of your little pun there Trevor I can vouch for > the honesty and integrity of Luis. I have never seen anyone so > determined to pay a $10 bill. > John and Muddy > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.249 / Virus Database: 122 - Release Date: 16/04/01 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:23:59 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - Simon "I still need the figure folks" Harding And I gave it to you - popular mythology (or the Fairey manual) states 100 foot-pounds...I looked it up.... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:26 -0400 From: "Martin Rothman" Subject: LRO: Koenig winch update Hi all, I have been busy working away on my ex-Willis Jeep Koenig winch, adapting it to my S1-80". This winch is somewhat different than the LR specific, crank drive Koenig winch, although it looks almost the same. The mount points are at the centerline of the winch drum, rather than the base of the clutch case as in the LR version. Also, it doesn't have the chain drive-transfer case with dog clutch assembly to connect to the LR crankshaft. Instead, the winch input driveshaft extends 2" out from the back of the winch, through a cast aluminum mounting plate. Originally, a PTO driven driveshaft connected direcly to this input shaft. On the other side of the winch drum, the support casting is much shallower than the LR version (similar to the Koenig LR PTO winch). First I had to determine how to drive the winch. I looked into building my own crank drive assembly, AKA the Koenig LR winch. That is, until I borrowed an actual Koenig LR crank drive winch and took apart the chain case to see what was inside to engage and disengage it from the LR crankshaft. It has what is known as a dog clutch engage/release mechanism. For any that don't know, this is a mechanical affair that consists of two major parts, a driveshaft with two arms sticking out that spin like the blades of a lawnmower, and a transfer shaft with two forks. The transfer shaft rides on the driveshaft and is slid into the driveshaft arms so that the forks engage the arms, driving the winch.(clear as mud, eh?) It is pulled back to release the winch. This is a BRUTAL affair that doesn't deserve the name "clutch". Engaging the clutch while the engine is running puts untold impact load on the crankshaft. I have heard horror stories of broken cranks caused by owners banging the clutch into and out of drive mode, although I don't any first hand knowlege myself. Thus I decided to look for another way to drive the winch. OK, PTO? Well, on an 80" it is almost impossible to route the various driveshafts to the winch. Just not enough room. If I had a RH drive 80" I might have been able to do it, but not with the pitman arm on the LH side. I also thought about adapting a motorcycle clutch to the winch and driving it from the crankshaft. A bit too much effort to do all the machining to adapt it, and what about keeping it clean in the mud? Got to be another solution. At this point one of my friends suggested that I drive it hydraulically like the LR S11 factory hyd winch. My response was "What factory LR S11 hyd winch?" Now, you have to remember that I have some serious gaps in my LR knowledge. If it was made after 1958, I have little knowledge of it. In fact, I have only owned one LR and that is my 1952 S1 80". OK, get a S11 manual and look at the diagrams. This could work. The hyd pump is driven from the pto, the hyd motor is connected to the winch, there is a hyd control valve, a 4 gal hyd fluid reservoir tank, various fittings, a filter and a bunch of pressure lines connecting everything. OK, go on the internet and start learning about hydraulics. It turns out that for 8000lb of line pull, at 30 ft/min wind in rate, I need 500 in/lb of torque at the input shaft. This translates to a hydraulic motor/pump combination that pumps 10gpm at 1000rpm at ~1000 psi. (Whew! Got all that?) Out I go to price this stuff at my local hyd dealer. I almost passed out at the prices. $300 for motor, $600 for pump, $150 for ctl valve, $250 for lines, $200 for all the filters and fittings .... even at Canadian $$'s this is pricey, and doesn't even include the costs of building a tank or frame to mount the winch! Well after several weeks and some real serious sleuthing, I managed to source used motor, pump and valve for the princely sum of Cdn$300. Even comes with a 90 day warranty. Currently, a friend and I have welded up a new front bumper with the winch mounts built in, the winch rear mounting frame with built in mounts for the hyd motor, and have mounted the unit to the 80". Looks pretty good. Over the next month I will install a PTO in my transmission and mount the pump to it. Then I will build the reservoir tank, get the pressure lines made up and mounted, and try it out. Work, work, work, work... I sure hope it is going to be worth it. My first roll of pictures should be developed this weekend. :) Martin Rothman _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #349 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 20 16:06:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3KK6NN24136 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:06:23 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3KJ2X322311 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3KJ2X822308 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24665 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3KDO9222258 for lro-digest-gone; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:24:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:24:09 -0400 Message-Id: <200104201324.f3KDO9222258@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #348 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 348 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:18:39 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: result of the polarity switch >:In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going >:to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. >: > >After you convert the truck back to positive earth, right? Well, naturally. And I'm going to reinstall the generator but not the voltage regulator, then switch the leads for the oil pressure and the charging lights. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:28:36 -0600 From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch At 18:40 19/04/01 -0700, Hoult, Bryan, wrote >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it >your duty to: > >a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 >monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. This actually quite terrifies me. Despite the nonsense I've had to undo from the previous PO's, especially wiring, with my machine, I just know that I am creating any number of ludicrous PO situations. While I have no intention of selling anytime soon, I still don't want to be in a position some day of reading this list and seeing reams of outrageous laughter and indignation over something that I had done and that some hapless new owner has had to deal with. I think the best thing for me to do is to continue bodging away with the help of my five drunken monkeys and just never sell the damn thing. Come to think of it, the monkeys are usually too drunk to help in any way so any PO issues are mine entirely, and I fear there are likely to be a number of them. Rick Grant 1959 Series II "88" VORIZO Rick Grant Communications Media and Crisis Management Calgary Ottawa www.rickgrant.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:32:00 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Keith Tanner wrote: :I once looked at a Jaguar XJ6 that had a Chevy V8 under the hood. The :heater was controlled with a tap from an exterior faucet like you'd see on :a garden hose. : Both of my Land-Rovers have had this when I bought them. It's absolutely wonderful to turn off the heat in the summer. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:37:29 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) I have the U.S. tool catalog sitting next to the computer... www.ustool.com / 18005214800 rivet set #4356 & bucking bar #TP112 (there are others better suited, but this is cheap) Give them a call and ask for the catalog. lots of gadgets that you'll never be able to justify buying. I use a short-stroke air hammer, .401 shank. $20 from harbor freight, nothern tools, or home depot. I sourced rivets from mcmaster-carr. #97482A277 solid, soft Al, 3/16" dia. ,5/8" length. All other lengths I ordered had flat spots on the head, so I cut down the round ones (it's called detail-oriented, not anal damnit). source locally if you can... I couldn't.(BTW- they sell sealing pop rivets comparable to RN for less $$) The setting procedure is like Peter said. Once you have all the bits, it's pretty obvious. Then practice. I'm still very reluctant to put rivets over paint , but hey, all that says is that I should have used a roller... The teasing trigger dedicated rivet gun is supposedly the ticket for not screwing up paint- if you know someone who does airplane repair/assy. (and is crazy enough to let your rover near their tools). have fun! - -todd BTW I want to give credit to the folks who supplied me w/ the info but my archives got blotto'd a few months back... I am still in your debt. >From: "Peter Ogilvie" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:44:36 -1000 > >The rivet guns are for the pop rivets, not the round head type. You need >an >air chizel, a bit and a bucking bar to set the round head types. I have >the >information on a supplier somewhere. If I can remember where, I'll send >you >the info. Haven't tried setting the round heads but apparently its a >matter >of putting a 'bucking bar' over one end and then use the airchisel with the >proper bit to mushroom the other end. Think the 'bucking bar' is just a >flat piece with a puka the shape of the domed head of the rivet. The >chizel >bit is probably an indented rod that fits over the other end of the rivet. >You use the air chizel to pound on one end and hold the other end with the >'bucking bar'. That's my understanding of the procedure, someone who has >actually done it, chime in if I'm wrong. > >The blind rivets and setting gun are super simple. Stick the rivet in the >gun, push the rivet in the hole, pull the trigger and your done. BTW There >are a bunch of different types of blind rivets. The ones from RN are way >stronger, and take a lot more force to set, than the ones I bought at my >local Ace hardware. I've used the RN rivets to replace the domed rivets >without any problems so far. When I build my 'Sunday' truck, will get the >tools and use the domed rivets where they once were, however. > >Aloha >Peter > > >>From: "Vel & Maryanne Natarajan" >>Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >>To: >>Subject: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) >>Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:55:31 -0500 >> >>Peter, >> >>I've always wondered about those rivet guns I see in Harbor Freight. Your >>post has convinced me that when I replace the cappings on my truck, that >>I'll be using real round-head rivets and the rivet gun. >> >>When setting the rivets, are there any special techniques (bucking bar, or >>whatever it is when setting by hand), or do you just set the rivet in the >>hole, and pull the trigger? >> >>Regards,, >>Vel >> _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 05:50:43 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) > The setting procedure is like Peter said. Once you have all the bits, it's > pretty obvious. Then practice. I'm still very reluctant to put rivets over > paint , but hey, all that says is that I should have used a roller... Close, cept the bit that goes into the air hammer has a hollow to match the rivet head. The bucking bar is flat. The action of the hammer doesn't directly crown the rivet. It sets up a vibration and the hand held force on the bucking bar flattens the back side. This si similar to removing a dent from a car using a hammer and dolley. Dolley goes behind the dent, then you hit the dent with the hammer. When done right, the dolley is actually what is knocking out the dent. Yes, it's not April 1, and I am not pulling your leg. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Powder coating question - --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: is > powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? hot dip galvanize. or paint. use the appliance or machine tool enamel. powder coating is for the show fields set. Why not go totally ghetto...you ain't thuggin' unless you ridin' on chrome nah... dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:30:14 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool Hi All-- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > >Oh, and that should be "bizarro"; "bizarre" and "bazaar" both have one > "z", and the angular alternate Superman universe to which you refer was > spelled, after "bizarre," "Bizarro." > > I was actually referring to the bizarro world as used in "Seinfeld" in which > Elaine meets three people who are similar in some ways but not in others > to Jerry, Kramer, and George. However, I suspect the spelling is the same > as the Superman thing to which you refer. > "The Bizarro Jerry" was the title of that episode. And it paid homage to Superman's Bizarro world. Seinfeld (the show, the actor and the character) has a thing for Superman. -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org/ http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:33:28 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch - --- "Hoult, Bryan" wrote: > a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you > and 5 > monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. Hi. This is a "choose your own adventure" reply. You may choose from the folliwng 3 responses. 1.You just described the factory. 2.Impression? 3.No, you stay in your chair. Let the monkeys do the work. >b. Oh, and use loads of wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. and lamp wire... > c. B-O-N-D-O! b-o-n-d-o/b-o-n-d-o and bondo was his name-o... > Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's > Association) rofl...the whole thing is great...thanks dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:41:16 -0400 From: "Bruce D. Fowler" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing Yaa... J-L post it!!! Wouldn't be in your best interest for this boy to post a snap of your rover listing in my driveway... now whould it ? Bruce F. - -----Original Message----- From: Luis Ml Gutiérrez To: lro@works.team.net Date: Thursday, April 19, 2001 22:59 :I'm sorry, Jean-Leon, but Bruce has got a point here. :You've got a moral obligation to all of us. : : :Luis M. : : :----- Original Message ----- :From: Bruce D. Fowler :To: :Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 12:24 AM :Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Parts availability vs. bulletproofing : : :> :> -----Original Message----- :> From: Jean-Leon Morin :> :> :> :Nope. I'd be too ashamed to post it. The truth is, after such long hours, :> it :> :still looks like a clapped out IIA, with trailer taillights, rusted out :> :doortops, and a peeling roof. :> :> : "Never been into looks." :> :> What? :> If your not into "looks" then post a snap of it. :> :> Bruce F. :> PS.Timshel dosn't look much better..... :> :> :> :> :> :> :> : : :--- :Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. :Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). :Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 07/03/01 : : : ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 23:45:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote: :> The setting procedure is like Peter said. Once you have all the bits, :it's :> pretty obvious. Then practice. I'm still very reluctant to put rivets :over :> paint , but hey, all that says is that I should have used a roller... : :Close, cept the bit that goes into the air hammer has a hollow to match the :rivet head. The bucking bar is flat. The action of the hammer doesn't :directly crown the rivet. It sets up a vibration and the hand held force on :the bucking bar flattens the back side. :This si similar to removing a dent from a car using a hammer and dolley. :Dolley goes behind the dent, then you hit the dent with the hammer. When :done right, the dolley is actually what is knocking out the dent. :Yes, it's not April 1, and I am not pulling your leg. :Pete He really isn't. Oh, and they make air rivet guns. They look an awful lot like an air hammer, but they tend to have a lower impact rate, and exert less force per blow. Doubt its worth buying one for a Land-Rover. If you've got an airplane or a serious tool fetish, though.... - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:50:58 +1000 From: David Pillekers Subject: LRO: Pictures of JL's vehicle Hello all, JL, if you want to email me a picture I can bung it in my ISP account and post the URL. I must admit I'm more than a little curious about how valdez looks... BTW, next time your going to make jokes about air brake noises and jeeps, can you post a spoilers. My coworkers think I'm losing it cos I'm laughing at my keyboard again. Reminds me of a defender I saw at one point. It was a 110 truck cab in the sorta offwhite grey colour. Back of it had a canvas cover. Had a modded v8 running 35 inch swampers and air lockers at both ends. This thing emerged, in no great hurry, from a mud pit, chugged along to some slightly dryer ground, and as she stoped the there was the woooshh of the air. The combined effect off the sounds and the look of the vehicle was impressive. Mind you, I'd just made it through the same pit with 235/85R16 MT's in a stock vehicle. But from a dramatic point of view it was an impressive entrance. :-) Regards, David. Melb, Australia - who really want a Garage again so he can re accumulate all the good toys ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:59:10 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch Hi All-- Keith Tanner wrote: > > I once looked at a Jaguar XJ6 that had a Chevy V8 under the hood. The > heater was controlled with a tap from an exterior faucet like you'd see on > a garden hose. > And then there was "Christine," an Alco DL-109, a diesel locomotive styled by Raymond Loewy, owned by Rock Island (number 621) and repowered by EMD. EMD is ElectroMotive Division, General Motors. The DL-109 http://exotic.railfan.net/alcodl109.htm is one of the *classic* locomotives; an XJ6 is a nice-looking car, but really, it's not in the same class. Um, think Bugatti. Or Bugatti crossed with Duesenberg. After the operation, you would have thought those boys had got likkered up in order to work on her. ... -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) PS: Someday I'll tell you about my friend Barney the Pervert's cars. ... > Keith > > 19/04/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it > >your duty to: > > > >a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 > >monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. > > - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org/ http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:05:48 -0700 From: Ben Mitchell Subject: RE: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) Got one (air riveter - real rivets, not pop) in the garage. Haven't used it yet, but I've got a lot of rivets to drive for the 88" I'm rebuilding. Rivet guns are not cheap, but according to everything I read, it's a bad idea to use an air hammer for rivets. Actually just coming up on the first application for the thing so I ordered some rivets from McMaster Carr this afternoon. One batch of steel ones (for steel panels to the firewall) and one batch of aluminium ones (for everthing else). Will let y'all know how it goes. - -Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:24:19 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: RE: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Ben Mitchell wrote: :Got one (air riveter - real rivets, not pop) in the garage. : :Haven't used it yet, but I've got a lot of rivets to drive for the 88" I'm :rebuilding. Rivet guns are not cheap, but according to everything I read, :it's a bad idea to use an air hammer for rivets. Actually just coming up on Air hammers hit too hard, is the basic problem. Turning the air way down works wonders for that, though. If I were doing an airplane, I'd get a rivet gun. for the couple hundred rivets on a Land-Rover, an air hammer (or a ball peen hammer, which is how I did the ones I replaced on the bonnet of Mr. Sinclair. I got the rivets for the cost of a ride from a guy near my parents who built planes, so I didn't really think it worth spending money on a tool...) will work. If you've got a fetish about it, by all means buy the right tool. Don't forget the rivet gauge, either! Just don't try and figure out how to use a torque wrench as part of the operation. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:50:28 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) > Just don't try and figure out how to use a torque wrench as part of the > operation. > Uhm, use the 1/2" drive, in 1 foot increments, plated and polished torque wrench in lew (lou??) of the bucking bar right?? Pete ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:00:15 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > Sorry, this is once again just the ranting of an old lady with a torque > wrench fetish. ... fetishes aside, TA makes a good point. By far the greater portion of the torque (force) endured by any bolted joint is taken up by the faying surfaces (the surfaces that are held together by the bolt), and not by the bolt/nut per se. The friction between these surfaces is critical to the joint's strength. The moment this friction is overcome the forces transmitted onto the bolt/nut are normally enough to break the joint. It's very much in everyone's best interest to ensure that correct torque settings are maintained on 'Jesus' nuts - those bolted joints that, when they fail, are guaranteed to bring you closer to whomever you believe your maker to be, or not be, as the case may be :-{)} Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:14:47 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch The previous owners of my 109 were into bondo big time. Thought the right rear panel of the 1o9 was a little wavy. After the tree stopped it from making a solo run through my neighbors house, peeled off the bondo. The stuff was a quarter inch thick I just a large diameter drill and drilled out the welds from the throw away side. Been thinking about ordering one of the fancy spot weld removal tools but couldn't get $20 together to order one. Notice they come in different sizes, is there one size that's better than others?? Aloha Peter O >From: "Hoult, Bryan" >c. Never replace panels, B-O-N-D-O! >Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's Association) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 03:30:29 EDT From: SFmms@aol.com Subject: LRO: Re: Powder coating - --part1_14.12d72957.28113f95_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/19/01 8:19:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-lro-digest@Works.Team.Net writes: C. Marin Faure wrote: > BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match > Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't > care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets > whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the > opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is > powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? > Yes, powder coat companies can get a very close match to Limestone. The caveat with using powder coating is that if it gets damaged the spot will tend to rust and undermine the surrounding coating. Also if the surface of the part is not well prepared the coating will lift off and the same thing can happen. The usual surface prep is to sand blast the part to bare metal. The coating cannot be repaired because it involves electrostatically adhering fine particles of a polymer material (there are several different types) then baking the coating onto the part in an oven. If the coating will see sunlight a polymer can have an anti-UV additive and in some cases a rust resisting underlayer can be applied (for more $). In a nutshell, you end up with a plastic coated part with a fairly durable coating that cannot be repaired. The only way to hide damage is to fill in with several layers of a similar color paint. I have had several steel brackets for a canoe rack on top of our '66 SIIa done with powder coating matching the limestone top at the vendor my aerospace company has used for years. Even they had to redo one piece because of peeling. I also noted our military customers prefer painting or anodizing to powder coating for applications where they would expect rough conditions in the field. So I opted to have the 16" steel wheels painted and will order some small quantities of touch up paint for after the tire installation. Hope this helps, Karen Sindir '74 SIII 88 Red Rufy '66 SIIa 88 Barbaros '95 Disco EFE - --part1_14.12d72957.28113f95_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/19/01 8:19:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
owner-lro-digest@Works.Team.Net writes:
C. Marin Faure wrote:

BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match
Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't
care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets
whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating?  In the
opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is
powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa?


Yes, powder coat companies can get a very close match to Limestone. The
caveat with using powder coating is that if it gets damaged the spot will
tend to rust and undermine the surrounding coating. Also if the surface of
the part is not well prepared the coating will lift off and the same thing
can happen. The usual surface prep is to sand blast the part to bare metal.
The coating cannot be repaired because it involves electrostatically adhering
fine particles of a polymer material (there are several different types) then
baking the coating onto the part in an oven.  If the coating will see
sunlight a polymer can have an anti-UV additive and in some cases a rust
resisting underlayer can be applied (for more $). In a nutshell, you end up
with a plastic coated part with a fairly durable coating that cannot be
repaired. The only way to hide damage is to fill in with several layers of a
similar color paint.

I have had several steel brackets for a canoe rack on top of our '66 SIIa
done with powder coating matching the limestone top at the vendor my
aerospace company has used for years. Even they had to redo one piece because
of peeling. I also noted our military customers prefer painting or anodizing
to powder coating for applications where they would expect rough conditions
in the field. So I opted to have the 16" steel wheels painted and will order
some small quantities of touch up paint for after the tire installation.

Hope this helps,

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 Red Rufy
'66 SIIa 88 Barbaros
'95 Disco EFE - --part1_14.12d72957.28113f95_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:52:01 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: LRO: (off-topic) forwarded from the overland list Sorry if this offends ;-{>} It's an overland and za-lro tradition. - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [OverLand] Friday humour... (off-topic) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:34:06 +0200 From: Hennie Rautenbach Reply-To: overland@tigereye.sabinet.co.za Organization: SABINET Online To: overland@sabinet.co.za Fridays aren't complete without it :-) http://www.overland.co.za/temp/rabbit.jpg Cheers, Hennie =========================================================== Archive and other info at http://www.overland.co.za =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:39:26 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Powder coating question Marin, What about getting your wheels galvanised and then painting them. That way you can touch up the paint if it chips and you don't have to worry about rust. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:42:43 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it >your duty to: >a, b, c... d: When wiring, try not to use any lengths of wire greater than five inches. That way you can change wire colour many, many times for each circuit. This is very pretty and makes it nicer when you have to do wiring later ;-) Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:00:02 -0400 From: "Brad Crittenden" Subject: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill Hello: Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive? I've located the filler plug with the little dipstick attached. There is a single notch towards the bottom. Q) What does the notch indicate: high or low level? Q) Do you check after threading the plug all the way in or simply at rest atop the hole? Seems pretty basic but I'm confused. A quick search via Google showed others confused over the years but no answers. Also, neither the Haynes manual nor the Land Rover manual explain it. Thanks, Brad '75 Series III ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:20:19 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) Peter Hope riveted us with: The blind rivets and setting gun are super simple. Stick the rivet in the gun, push the rivet in the hole, pull the trigger and your done. You would mention the one air tool I adore......and forgot about. I've got one too - it paid for itself the first time I had to re-rivet bed strips in my 109 pickup...50 rivets in 15 minutes or so. Place, pop and move on - done. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:56:01 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch DaveB wrote: > > c. B-O-N-D-O! > > b-o-n-d-o/b-o-n-d-o and bondo was his name-o... > with fine Scottish accent "My name is Bondo, Jimmy Bondo" > > dave John and Muddy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:51:52 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: Diff housings leaks Steve Parker Land Rovers sells a replacement diff-pan, just cut the old one off and weld the new one on here in the UK. Can't remember the cost but not expensive (you'd have to add shipping of course) Steve@sparkerlr.u-net.com Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 5:07 AM Subject: LRO: Diff housings leaks > Well I destroyed the rear diff. today because the rear cover Rusted > through and I didn't catch it in time. I can't find a replacement cover, > does someone know of a source? In lieu of a new one I could cut weld and > bang out a new one but I don't want to get in to that much work right > now. I was thinking of fiberglass mat and epoxy over the entire cover. > Any other suggestions. What else have others done? > > thanks > chris hall > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:18:05 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: A puzzler. as in, 'it takes one to know one'.... Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Cranfield To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: Re: LRO: A puzzler. > > > Keith Tanner wrote: > > > > Really, I'm not an idiot. I'm just very new to series trucks. > > Keith Tanner > > ------------ > > Now Lad, we, the list. will be the Judge of that. > A simple disclaimer is not enough. :) > John and Muddy > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:01:08 -0400 From: artbitt@netscape.net Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch Keith wrote: From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch I once looked at a Jaguar XJ6 that had a Chevy V8 under the hood. The heater was controlled with a tap from an exterior faucet like you'd see on a garden hose. Keith Just like the tap on my SII. At least they got something right! Art Bitterman 1960 SII "Aardvark" - -- Art Bitterman __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:01:07 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO: RE: more bastards Ivan wrote > . Um, think Bugatti. Or Bugatti crossed with Duesenberg. > Bugatti Royale/GM6.2 Diesel now there would be a combination!!!! Or maybe a Minden Deutz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:24:49 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Powder coating question It seems to me that powder coating wheels would be a waste of time and effort. The coat is soft and when the tires are installed will be cut at the edge of the rim. Further when the wheel nut are tightened the coat will be effectivly removed there too. Once the integrity of the coat is lost moisture will penetrate and cause rust under coat. John and Muddy "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > How tough is powder coating? At some point in the > not-too-distant future I need to have my SIII's wheels > sandblasted and repainted as a couple of them have some > surface rust and the paint on all of them is pretty sorry. My > initial thought was to have all five wheels sandblasted, and > then I would primer them and paint them with a commercial > spray color that I've used before that more or less resembles > Limestone (my entire vehicle and the wheels were Limestone > from the factory). > > Several years ago, when I was first contemplating doing this, > a friend of mine in N. California who was in the Land Rover > parts business but isn't anymore suggested powder coating > instead of painting. I located an outfit in Tacoma that did > powder coating, but for various reasons I never got around > to actually doing anything about it. > > Now that my SIII needs new tires, I thought it might be a > good opportunity to spruce up the wheels at the same time. > The advantage of painting them is that it's easy to touch them > up if the paint gets scratched off. The advantage (so far as > I know) of powder coating is that it looks better and is maybe > tougher than paint. > > BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match > Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't > care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets > whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the > opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is > powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? > Thanks. > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 05:59:09 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I run a >'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from the house. I >suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on the 110v to throw a >breaker inside the house. Is this true? It is with mine. And it is pretty much alone on a 15 amp circuit. If it automatically turns off I need to rush to the compressor and turn it's switch off. If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7 pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker. If I had a real house I would use 220V and a higher capacity compressor. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 06:15:47 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: X-fer cases >All this talk about how robust the Series x-fer case is and I limp home in >low this afternoon after a short bout of really nasty growling :( Bummer. So far the only failures I have seen in a series LR transfer case has been bearing related and those generally can be traced to running low on oil at one or more times previously. The bearings inside the intermediate gear rely upon splash as well as the one at the end of the transmission output shaft. The intermediate gear bearings are well encapsulated and are particularly susceptible to damage from running low on oil. Please keep me informed about what you find (twakeman@cruzers.com) when you open the xfer case up. I'm very interested in series transfer case failure modes. The previous owner of my Green Rover inherited thee vehicle from his uncle in New Hampshire. He did not know to put oil any place except the engine. So he drove the Rover until the rear diff went dry and put it into 4WD and continued using the LR. The transfer case went dry and the bearings disintegrated. When I bought the car one of my first jobs was to rebuild the transfer case. The gears were blue but intact. I replaced all the bearings and seals and the transfer case just kept working. TeriAnn http://www.overlander.net The world's most complete set of links connecting Rover 4X4 owners with Rover parts, service, accessory & sales companies world wide. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:21:38 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) Is this before or after you beat your head against the wall trying to figure out why that bucking bar you've bought just won't fit into your air hammer? - -todd >From: "Hope Peter" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Rivet guns (was: Air Compressors) >Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 05:50:43 -1000 > > > The setting procedure is like Peter said. Once you have all the bits, >it's > > pretty obvious. Then practice. I'm still very reluctant to put rivets >over > > paint , but hey, all that says is that I should have used a roller... > >Close, cept the bit that goes into the air hammer has a hollow to match the >rivet head. The bucking bar is flat. The action of the hammer doesn't >directly crown the rivet. It sets up a vibration and the hand held force >on >the bucking bar flattens the back side. >This si similar to removing a dent from a car using a hammer and dolley. >Dolley goes behind the dent, then you hit the dent with the hammer. When >done right, the dolley is actually what is knocking out the dent. >Yes, it's not April 1, and I am not pulling your leg. >Pete > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:22:07 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors If the compressor tries to start with more than about 7 pounds pressure in the tank it will trip the 15 amp breaker. Teriann, are you sure the compressor's unloader valve is working right? This is all the classic symptoms of a stuck unloader valve - compressor's don't start well against back pressure. Reason I ask is that this jhust happened to mine - unloader valve stuck and made life annoying. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 06:23:38 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch >I once looked at a Jaguar XJ6 that had a Chevy V8 under the hood. The >heater was controlled with a tap from an exterior faucet like you'd see on >a garden hose. Strangely enough that type of valve is what came stock on Triumph TR3s to control flow to the heater. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #348 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Fri Apr 20 19:18:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3KNIBN24932 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:18:11 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3KMEMN00585 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3KMEL800582 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05596 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3KLc1u01340 for lro-digest-gone; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:38:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:38:01 -0400 Message-Id: <200104202138.f3KLc1u01340@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #350 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 350 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:26:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:13:11 -0400, RON WARD wrote: Snip >I'm looking for something very sturdy and powerful enough to run a grinder, and wrench (easy removal of spring shackle bolts and other rusted fasteners) and maybe even a paint gun at some point. Can any of you folks out there who have these and use them a lot give me some pointers? Well, yes, Oiless is noiser, and probably not as long lived. That said, I got a Chraftsman oilless at a good price. It is their Black Upright model, stands about 5' tall. I can't remember the horses, or tank capacity (60gal I think), but it puts out enough to run a 300ft /lb impact wrench at the end of 100' of air hose. I paid about under $450 dollars for it on sale. I did a *lot* of prece/feature shopping, and decided on the chraftsman because after the compressor dies, in who knows how many years, a replacement two stage oil type replacement compressor will be cheaper than what one would have cost me outright year before last. even including the price of what I paid for mine. Cheers Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:39:59 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: cutting off bolts Go to the supplier where you buy your grinding wheels and look for some thin grinding wheels for the angle grinder. I've found them in cutoff-wheel thicknesses and they make short work of fasteners (as well as being really nice for chassis repair). ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:43:22 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Powder coating Marin: Go check out Gord'n Perrott's place. He seems to have a number of galvanized wheels attached to the various Rovers stacked in his yard. The galvanizing mellows out to a nice gray so doesn't look obtrusive. By the way, Gord'n's mantra is 'if its steel, galvanize it'. He has a lot of, not from the factory, galvanized pieces laying around. Didn't think I'd like the look of galvanized wheels but it seemed to fit a series with all the other galvanized pieces on the truck. Of course, it might have been the blazingly bright gray of a typical winter day in Seattle that didn't allow me to see the true luster of the wheels. You can supposedly paint galvanized but you have to prep it right, just like aluminum. I say supposedly cause just painting over weathered galvanizing doesn't seem to stick. I know your not in a high corrosion area, but I'd seriously consider galvanizing if I lived anywhere in the rust belt. Aloha Peter Ogilvie Kona Coffee Rover 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering from exposure of the dark side. 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally up and running 12/00. 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust >From: "Faure, Marin" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: "'Land Rover Mail Group'" >Subject: LRO: Re: Powder coating >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:13:35 -0700 > >Based on the input I've gotten on and off >the list, and my own reasoning, I think the >best thing to do to my wheels is have them >sandblasted to remove the old paint and >surface rust, and then prime and paint them. >I don't want to galvanize them, as paint tends >to have a tough time sticking to galvanizing, >and I don't want silver wheels. Thanks >for the input- it seems powder coating is >more suited for the show-car crowd. >___________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:16:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: OD nut torque Just checked both the old and new versions of the installation manual and they simply say "tighten" and lock tab the nut. Where did the torque figure that is so importnat come from? And now that my friend wants it, can someone provide it to me? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:49:19 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Hi All-- Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > -ly y'rs, > Ivan;-) > > Care to explain this? I assume waht you're getting at here is that some > Fairbanks-Morse Deisel locos used old WWII sub engines? > Um, no. FM was founded in 1893, and the opposed-piston engine was designed in the 1930s. Subs used FM opposed-piston engines: http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/opmar.html but mostly as auxiliary generators. In the fifties, someone at FM noticed that these OP engines (http://www.fairbanksmorse.com/op818.html) would make dynamite locomotive prime movers. And they did. Low rpm, high HP, torque high enough to peel chrome off a trailer hitch;-) and on top of everything else, relatively quiet. OP engines have two crankshafts, one at top and one at bottom, and two pistons in each cylinder. They also sound like no other diesel engines on earth. Cheap good tape recorders didn't exist when I got my chance to hear and see some FM locos running. Sigh. FM is still in business, but they got out of the diesel-electric locomotive business in the sixties. RR shops weren't geared up to rebuild the engines and didn't want to invest the money for the special tools needed, so only a couple of hundred FM diesels were ever sold. The Train Master, a 2400-HP unit at a time when most other locos were maxed out at 15-1800 HP, is one of the all-time favorites of railfans everywhere. To find out more about the Train Master, check out http://www.nwhs.org/ecomm_prod_snaps/book_tmaster.html -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 01 10:59:32 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously >A friend of mine just called me at work. He's picking up his rebuilt >transmission and will be installing it and I guess his OD over the next >day or so. He asked what the torque setting for the OD nut is. > Apparently he doesn't have the printout from OVLR's site of the Fairey >manual (I think it has the setting), and I don't have the info here at >work. Can someone post the figure so I can pass it to him? 95 foot pounds. You will find this plus a bunch more useful torque settings in the tech info page of British Pacific's upcoming new web site. http://front.netnation.com/~britishp/series/s_tech.html Will get you to the temp location of the tech page. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:00:39 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: cutting off bolts Simon wrote: >Is a cutoff wheel significantly better than a normal metal grinding wheel >speedwise? > Yes - the cutoff wheel is faster and better at cutting than the grinding wheel. The cutoff wheel is much slimmer. There are four and a half inch cutting wheels that will fit your grinder. No need to buy another tool. You will probably need an adapter to fix the cutoff wheel to the grinder - or you can make one with some big washers. Basically you just need a method to sufficiently clamp the cutoff wheel to the grinder since most cutoff wheels don't have threads like the grinding wheels. I don't know how I lived before my Sears grinder. The rpm is up over 10 thousand and cuts through metal like butter or grinds when needed. Much better than a reciprocating saw for most things in my opinion. Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:58:33 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: cutting off bolts On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, SJH wrote: :but don't want to damage anything. I was thinking a cutoff wheel could :simply slice down through the head of each screw to floor or washer level :and a chisel would then make quick work of the head. Grinder (4.5 inch :dewalt) just seems kinda slow. Get a couple cut-off wheels for your angle grinder. They'll slice bolts off right quickly. Watch the floor though! - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:03:57 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, SJH wrote: :Just checked both the old and new versions of the installation manual and :they simply say "tighten" and lock tab the nut. Where did the torque :figure that is so importnat come from? And now that my friend wants it, :can someone provide it to me? Someone has. 100 lbft. That's the folklore, and it does work. I don't know the origin, but it's how I did mine. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:09:23 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch Looks like I finally located that mysterious PO of my IIa.... >>> bryan.hoult@attws.com 04/19/01 09:40PM >>> F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it your duty to: a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you and 5 monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. b. Alter virtually every circuit to the extent that it's easier to get a new wiring harness than correct your "improvements". Oh, and use loads of wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. c. Never replace panels, B-O-N-D-O! Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's Association) 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Tanner [mailto:keith@miata.net] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 6:12 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: result of the polarity switch Just a followup: the truck was set up as positive ground before, despite unusual instrument wiring/notatings. Now it's negative. It was an easy switch as I suspected - but I appreciate the information that allowed me to confirm the polarity of all the bits before I started changing the wiring. I didn't want to end up damaging something due to ignorance, although my electrical knowledge is good enough to tell which is the ground strap and read a circuit diagram :) In my order to RN today, I included a NEGATIVE EARTH 12V plate. I'm going to rivet that beside the battery tray for some future owner. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:01:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: OD nut torque- sorry sent this before it was pointed out I stupidly failed to see the torque setting in an earlier post. And now that my friend wants it, can someone provide it to me? [SJH] Sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:20:03 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Hand painting a IIa - an update Hi all, Got the front quarter panel and passenger door of the IIa painted last night. Using Dupont Centauri (2 quarts) mixed with Dupont Mid-temp Reducer (1 quart). The panels I have done look really good. No brush marks and oh what a shine! I got the two panels finished and for a moment thought I'd get the whole passenger side completed but that was before the lights turned really bright and bluish and then the giant roaches started to chase me through the green pasture under the front seat of the tarantula...... Consumer Action Alert: Care should be taken to open and use Dupont Centauri paints outdoors or in a well ventilated room. All users and liquored up bystanders should wear proper OSHA certified breathing equipment or suitable ventilators. Failure to comply with the above warning may result in serious injury or death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:24:55 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: cutting off bolts David Scheidt wrote: >They'll slice bolts off right quickly. Watch the floor though! > Also watch the eyes. A friend of mine had a grinder kick back and put a nice scar under his eye - needed stitches. Fortunately it missed his eye. I look like a space alien when using the grinder - goggles, hearing protector, and respirator. Better safe than sorry. Still manage the occasional arm burn from the sparks. Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:27:18 -0400 From: Lori Sickley Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque OVLR LR FAQ http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/odman8.html http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.options.html >:Just checked both the old and new versions of the installation manual and >:they simply say "tighten" and lock tab the nut. Where did the torque >:figure that is so importnat come from? And now that my friend wants it, >:can someone provide it to me? > >Someone has. 100 lbft. That's the folklore, and it does work. I don't >know the origin, but it's how I did mine. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:25:13 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch My IIa 88" came to me with a low tension lead from the coil that was one wire from a two-wire lamp cord. >>> rovergawd@yahoo.com 04/20/01 12:33AM >>> - --- "Hoult, Bryan" wrote: > a. Do modifications in such a manner as to give the impression you > and 5 > monkeys got liquored up and took blunt instruments to the truck. Hi. This is a "choose your own adventure" reply. You may choose from the folliwng 3 responses. 1.You just described the factory. 2.Impression? 3.No, you stay in your chair. Let the monkeys do the work. >b. Oh, and use loads of wire nuts like you'd find in house wiring. and lamp wire... > c. B-O-N-D-O! b-o-n-d-o/b-o-n-d-o and bondo was his name-o... > Bryan - PPPLROA (Past President Previous Land Rover Owner's > Association) rofl...the whole thing is great...thanks dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:20:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - Thanks TA. Just call me blind. Tom Gross (kindly) emailed me offlist and pointed out what I have seen before, namely, a little arrow in the printed fairey manual, pounting at the nut with a reference to 100 foot lbs. Simon " Blind Melon Chittlin, aka I'll shut up now" Harding 95 foot pounds. You will find this plus a bunch more useful torque settings in the tech info page of British Pacific's upcoming new web site. http://front.netnation.com/~britishp/series/s_tech.html Will get you to the temp location of the tech page. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:35:49 -0700 From: "Andrew Nordby" Subject: Re: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill According to the manual that came with mine: "Dipstick reading should be obtained by screwing fully into place" You can also peruse the manual online at: http://www.landrover.net/overdrive/ OK Andy Nordby '68 NADA 109 >From: "Brad Crittenden" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: "Lro" >Subject: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill >Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:00:02 -0400 > >Hello: > >Can someone explain the procedure for topping off a Fairey Overdrive? I've >located the filler plug with the little dipstick attached. There is a >single notch towards the bottom. > >Q) What does the notch indicate: high or low level? >Q) Do you check after threading the plug all the way in or simply at rest >atop the hole? > >Seems pretty basic but I'm confused. A quick search via Google showed >others confused over the years but no answers. Also, neither the Haynes >manual nor the Land Rover manual explain it. > >Thanks, > >Brad >'75 Series III > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:33:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: RE: Hand painting a IIa - an update Ron: one word: ventilation! -----Original Message----- From: RON WARD [SMTP:ronward@synovustrust.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:20 PM To: schultelaw@transport.com; catchall@schulte-law.com; SJH; lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: LRO: Hand painting a IIa - an update Hi all, Got the front quarter panel and passenger door of the IIa painted last night. Using Dupont Centauri (2 quarts) mixed with Dupont Mid-temp Reducer (1 quart). The panels I have done look really good. No brush marks and oh what a shine! I got the two panels finished and for a moment thought I'd get the whole passenger side completed but that was before the lights turned really bright and bluish and then the giant roaches started to chase me through the green pasture under the front seat of the tarantula... . Consumer Action Alert: Care should be taken to open and use Dupont Centauri paints outdoors or in a well ventilated room. All users and liquored up bystanders should wear proper OSHA certified breathing equipment or suitable ventilators. Failure to comply with the above warning may result in serious injury or death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:20:22 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: OD nut torque Dave Scheidt asks: Someone has. 100 lbft. That's the folklore, and it does work. I don't know the origin, but it's how I did mine. No folklore involved, Dave. i just looked it up in the Fairey/Superwinch manual I have in the file here in my office. It's right there... Not sure where the 95-foot-pound figure comes from - later Series manuals than I have on file, perhaps? Teriann, where's that figure from (other than BritPac) - just curious? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:34:52 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Hand painting a IIa - an update ROFLMAO...... Seriously, though, Ron is absolutely right. Be careful with this stuff and wear respiratory protection. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:44:32 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: LRO: RE: Hand painting a IIa - an update LMAO! Between P_Hope's post and this one I've been chuckling for two hours straight :) Bryan - -----Original Message----- From: RON WARD [mailto:ronward@synovustrust.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 11:20 AM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Hand painting a IIa - an update Hi all, Got the front quarter panel and passenger door of the IIa painted last night. Using Dupont Centauri (2 quarts) mixed with Dupont Mid-temp Reducer (1 quart). The panels I have done look really good. No brush marks and oh what a shine! I got the two panels finished and for a moment thought I'd get the whole passenger side completed but that was before the lights turned really bright and bluish and then the giant roaches started to chase me through the green pasture under the front seat of the tarantula...... Consumer Action Alert: Care should be taken to open and use Dupont Centauri paints outdoors or in a well ventilated room. All users and liquored up bystanders should wear proper OSHA certified breathing equipment or suitable ventilators. Failure to comply with the above warning may result in serious injury or death. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:45:01 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Hand painting a IIa - an update What kind of brushes are you using, Ron? Did you mix it ALL up at once? If so, how are you preventing hardening in the container? curious bill On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:20:03 -0400 "RON WARD" writes: > Hi all, > > Got the front quarter panel and passenger door of the IIa painted > last night. Using Dupont Centauri (2 quarts) mixed with Dupont > Mid-temp Reducer (1 quart). The panels I have done look really > good. No brush marks and oh what a shine! I got the two panels > finished and for a moment thought I'd get the whole passenger side > completed but that was before the lights turned really bright and > bluish and then the giant roaches started to chase me through the > green pasture under the front seat of the tarantula...... > > Consumer Action Alert: > > Care should be taken to open and use Dupont Centauri paints outdoors > or in a well ventilated room. All users and liquored up bystanders > should wear proper OSHA certified breathing equipment or suitable > ventilators. Failure to comply with the above warning may result in > serious injury or death. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:04:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill Screwed in is how I've always checked mine. Simon _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:22:38 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: location Bill Rice wrote: >Tim, are you back in CO? > Yep - we made it back this past weekend. After a few days delay thanks to that Wednesday snowstorm shutting down all flights to DIA. Unfortunately my new guitar was left behind. The airlines would not let me bring it in the passenger compartment without buying it a seat. Yeah right. And they would not pay up if it was damaged or lost in luggage. Anyone here have experience flying with musical instruments? Otherwise looks like it will be a long train or bus ride back with it. Anyway - putting out fires here. Dead battery won't charge, washing machine won't run. No mice though - always a plus when living in the mountains. Funny how things fall apart with four months of no usage. I am afraid to find out what might be living in my Series. So you are doing a bit of a frame up on your Series? Need any help? I am just good enough with my MIG welder to be dangerous. I am very good at taking things apart, but putting them back together again - hmm. I am an excellent supervisor - at least with Guiness in hand. Also an expert at cussing out frozen parts and throwing wrenches into garage walls. Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:18:04 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: Powder coating question powder coating anything looks really neat when it's first done and, I suspect, it's tougher than paint. However, when it does get damaged and water gets in it rusts away happily - out of sight - until one day great chunks of powder coating lift off and you've a right fine mess underneath. My way, these days, is to clean up to bare metal in whatever way you prefer, then a couple of coats of redlead (do you still have that in the States?) then a coat of primer then top coat of paint. Damage to paint becomes obvious much sooner and can be rubbed down and touched up easier than powder coating. Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Faure, Marin To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:16 AM Subject: LRO: Powder coating question > How tough is powder coating? At some point in the > not-too-distant future I need to have my SIII's wheels > sandblasted and repainted as a couple of them have some > surface rust and the paint on all of them is pretty sorry. My > initial thought was to have all five wheels sandblasted, and > then I would primer them and paint them with a commercial > spray color that I've used before that more or less resembles > Limestone (my entire vehicle and the wheels were Limestone > from the factory). > > Several years ago, when I was first contemplating doing this, > a friend of mine in N. California who was in the Land Rover > parts business but isn't anymore suggested powder coating > instead of painting. I located an outfit in Tacoma that did > powder coating, but for various reasons I never got around > to actually doing anything about it. > > Now that my SIII needs new tires, I thought it might be a > good opportunity to spruce up the wheels at the same time. > The advantage of painting them is that it's easy to touch them > up if the paint gets scratched off. The advantage (so far as > I know) of powder coating is that it looks better and is maybe > tougher than paint. > > BUT..... can a commercial powder coating company match > Limestone, or at least come close enough to where I don't > care about the difference, and what do you do if a wheel gets > whacked hard enough to damage the powder coating? In the > opinion of those of you who've had experience with both, is > powder coating wheels better than painting them, or visa versa? > Thanks. > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:33:47 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Fairey overdrive oil fill Since the level of the dipstick is the same in a fairey and a toro, and since the internals are the same size, one would think they would need the same oil level. Comparing the fairey dipstick to the toro dipstick, the top of the notch and the line are at the same level if the fairey plug is not screwed in, otherwise it is at the toro's low mark. These are just observations, you should draw your own conclusions. Mine is that I would rather overfill than underfill an overdrive, especially at today's prices. Even if the manual states otherwise. SJH wrote: > > Screwed in is how I've always checked mine. > > Simon > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:58:13 -0400 From: "James G.Wolf" Subject: LRO: RE: Powder coating question A guy on the RN BBS uses appliance epoxy spray paint from Rustoleum in almond color. I would think powder coating wouldn't be a good idea for an off-roader. Jim Wolf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:49:23 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: RE: Koenig winch update > Work, work, work, work... I sure hope it is going to be worth it. My > first > roll of pictures should be developed this weekend. :) > > Martin Rothman > > _________________________________________________________________________ Congratulations Martin. You've progressed further than I. I've have a rear PTO and hydraulic pump (7piston, compensated flow 3000 psi 20gpm at 2000 rpm) mounted. I did have the winch mounted but decided to relocate it as the motor position was too vunerable sticking out the front. I have yet to build a reservoir and do the piping. Anyone have some spare round tuits available. I need at least one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:46:18 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch Niall writes: >>d: When wiring, try not to use any lengths of wire greater than five inches. > That way you can change wire colour many, many times for each circuit. This > is very pretty and makes it nicer when you have to do wiring later ;-)<<< better is the bonnet I once looked under. Two colours of wire, red and black - everywhere... Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:18:34 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:45:00 From: "Chris Oles" Subject: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** >I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do. I was amazed at the number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around. I still stop and wonder at the brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric manufacturers. As a railfan (and modeler) myself- Milwaukee Road electrified Cascade division my specialty- I've been seeing an interesting "relic" in the BNSF yard in Bellingham these past few months that might bring back some more memories for you. It's a GP-30, probably one of the very few GP-30s still in major railroad service. If you used to work at EMD, you may remember the GP-30, as it has a very distinctive body and cab, particularly the dynamic brake grids on top of the long hood. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:24:11 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:18:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: OD nut torque setting needed - seriously >A friend of mine just called me at work. He's picking up his rebuilt transmission and will be installing it and I guess his OD over the next day or so. He asked what the torque setting for the OD nut is. If you're talking about the nut that holds the replacement drive gear on the end of the transmission output shaft, I keep hearing it's 100 ft. pounds of torque. However, there is no mention of any torque figure in either the Fairey overdrive installation and operation manual (which I still have), or the SIII factory service manual (for the nut when it holds on the output gear that mates to the top transfer case gear). But TeriAnn has mentioned 100 ft pounds several times, and I suspect she knows what she's talking about, so I'd feel safe using that figure. If you're talking about the nuts that hold the overdrive casing to the back of the transfer box, I don't think there's a torque figure mentioned anywhere, just "tight." ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:32:37 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:50:37 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** >>-ly y'rs, Ivan;-) >Care to explain this? I assume waht you're getting at here is that some Fairbanks-Morse Deisel locos used old WWII sub engines? Fairbanks-Morse produced a horizontally-opposed marine diesel prior to WWII that was subsequently used in a number of US submarines during the war. The engine was unique in that it had two pistons per cylinder: the pistons came together in the center of the cylinder and produced the compression and heat necessary to ignite the fuel. I have no idea what the con-rod/crankshaft arrangement was, but presumably the idea behind this design was that it produced more power per pound of weight. When Fairbanks-Morse entered the locomotive field after the war, they adapted their horizontally-opposed marine engine design to the primer mover/generator requirements of a diesel electric locomotive. The results were mildly successful, but the engines needed sufficient maintenance and had enough problems that they were eventually rendered uneconomical to operate. But all the F-M locomotives, to my knowledge, used this design of engine. They were derived from the marine design used in subs, but they were not actual surplus sub engines. They were all built brand new for the railroad locomotives. The first locomotive F-M produced was the H-10-44, a 1,000 hp yard switcher. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:49:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, N Forbes wrote: > >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it > >your duty to: > >a, b, c... > > d: When wiring, try not to use any lengths of wire greater than five inches. > That way you can change wire colour many, many times for each circuit. This > is very pretty and makes it nicer when you have to do wiring later ;-) And take the shortest distance, using pastel and florescent coloured wire. (seen it done...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:50:17 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** Hi All-- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:45:00 > From: "Chris Oles" > Subject: LRO: re: EMD locos **no rover content *** > > >I used to work out at EMD and a few friends still do. I was amazed at the > number of "rail fans" (fanatics) around. I still stop and wonder at the > brute size and strength of those locomotives and often still try and > identify the different offerings from the 2 main competing diesel-electric > manufacturers. > > As a railfan (and modeler) myself- Milwaukee Road electrified Cascade > division my specialty- I've been seeing an interesting "relic" in the BNSF > yard in Bellingham these past few months that might bring back some > more memories for you. It's a GP-30, probably one of the very few GP-30s still > in major railroad service. If you used to work at EMD, you may remember > the GP-30, as it has a very distinctive body and cab, particularly the dynamic > brake grids on top of the long hood. > And there are, or at least were up till a year or so ago, several ex-D&RGW GP30s were out banging around on UP tracks here in Salt Lake. (North-South mainline, near Sandy UT.) Hmmmm. Maybe I haven't seen them since the merger, though, come to think of it. I remember when the 30s were brand new. Chicago & Eastern Illinois RR had some beautiful black & white 30s. Quite fetching, really, especially compared to Illinois Central freight black. -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:10:33 -0700 From: R Pring Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch And my personal favourite....poke lots of holes in them with a test probe to further add to the professionalism of the job.(also aids in allowing to drain the smoke out of the wires.) Rick lroml@minbar.fourfold.org wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, N Forbes wrote: > > > >F*&! the future owner! Did the PO do you any favors.....NO! Consider it > > >your duty to: > > >a, b, c... > > > > d: When wiring, try not to use any lengths of wire greater than five inches. > > That way you can change wire colour many, many times for each circuit. This > > is very pretty and makes it nicer when you have to do wiring later ;-) > > And take the shortest distance, using pastel and florescent coloured wire. > (seen it done...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:33:12 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: result of the polarity switch >And take the shortest distance, using pastel and florescent coloured wire. >(seen it done...) > Right, I forgot that. You want the wire short enough that if the end breaks off, it can't be repaired. Otherwise there'd be a mess in there what with all that extra wire flopping about. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:37:47 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: Air Travel Lee Jones wrote: >... have them put it in the baggage compartment by hand as the last item >and she would collect it as she exited >the plane as the first item off the plane. > Thanks - I will have to ask about that option. Although technically it's not good to have a wood instrument exposed to temperature extremes. But the flight is only two hours and the case reasonably well insulated. I assume the luggage area of the plane is not climate controlled - not sure how cold it gets up there. I guess I could book a red-eye flight and bring the guitar to the gate hoping there are some empty seats for the instrument. If not then I could follow your suggestion and have them put it in luggage right there. Then jump off real quick to collect it. Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #350 **********************************************