From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Thu Apr 19 10:07:01 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3JE71N17837 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:07:01 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3JD39o15241 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3JD38815238 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00880 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3JC8QR31765 for lro-digest-gone; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:08:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:08:26 -0400 Message-Id: <200104191208.f3JC8QR31765@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #345 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 345 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:40:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool Yawn. Come on. Its not an F-16 or Ferrari for crying out loud. I said I've had NO problems over the last year with tranny/OD reliability since tightening the nut "incorrectly" (due to the fact I didn't have the "correct" tool and couldn't see dropping 30 bones on it at the time). I've never complained about tranny/OD reliability. Tight is tight. I've planned on pulling the OD and checking the torque on the nut, but don't have the heart to do that as I see it as mucking with something that ain't broke. What's the consequence if it's too tight? I can assure you I put the thing on there as tight as I could drive it on, at the advice of some of the rover wise in these parts, and when we are talking about torques as high as 95 foot pounds, I just can't see measuring it exactly being a concern: just get it on there as tight as you humanly can, and it'll be ok. Can you tell me there's a significant difference between 80, 90, 100 or even 125 foot pounds on that particular nut? It's very fine thread, and there's the lock washer, so if you tighten it to gut popping tight and lock the tabs, then no worries, it seems to me. In addition, having the ability to do some thing "incorrectly" can be a plus when it means you can make a fix without some special tool" that when you need it is sitting on your bench 100 miles away. There is after all, a limit to what you can/should weight yourself and your rig down with. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. Simon Oh, OK. This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover owners. People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly. I sure wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land Rovers are. It's not the car's fault. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:57:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote: : :check out the coil leads. The small, 12 volt ones, not the fat cable. A pos :earth will have the negative leading to the ignition key, positive to earth, :through the points, right? But, then again, you knew that, right ;-). The :polarity should be written on the coil, if not.... Of course, the coil works just fine hooked up backwards. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:14:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote: > Your truck has a generator on it, or an alternator? It is definitely neg > earth if it has either a rover alternator, or a bastardization. Not necessarily. Lucas made positive earth alternators. Just take an older Lucas and reverse the diodes to change between polarities... > If in doubt, just convert the bloody thing! To positive earth! ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 2001 17:19:50 -0700 From: Bryan Hoult Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool On Wed, 18 April 2001, SJH wrote: > > > > Tight is tight. Finally, somebody is making sense! Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:25:43 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: special tool Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool >>whatsa big deal? Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer >junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel. That >and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal. Torque be damned, tighten the >thing as tight as you can get it. >Oh, OK. This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover owners. People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly. I sure wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land Rovers are. It's not the car's fault. The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end of the mainshaft on some vehicles. In a correspondence with someone off-list, I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type nut, and this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual. But many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") Anyway, this obviously explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it. I don't know if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to resort to a normal nut on the day they made mine. But on mine, the instructions simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against two sides of the hex nut. My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a standard number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the stupid castleated thing an put on a normal nut? Making a washer with tabs to bend up against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut. I don't know because one of the the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold up against a hex nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey realized they could be in there). I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more money than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or you may not install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on. But in the case of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the problem go away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special tool (or a bar and a rock). ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:12:11 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Why bother when dealing with Dixon ;-) Was not aware of Lucasoid + earth alternators. Thanks, I'm a little less dumb now. Let's put it this way. If you want to be cool, keep the + ground. If you wanna be normal (not necessarily a good thing) do like the rest of us. Bastardize. ______________________________________________________ Jean-Leon Morin AKA "Dr. Detroit" Valdez - 1966 IIA 109 freak Slagmobile - 195? II parts bin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:13:31 +1000 From: Mark Sullivan Subject: LRO: RE: Re: special tool Yes castellated is the correct term ,they resemble an "old english castle tower" with the up and down stonework where olde archers used to fire and hide. normally used when a pin is inserted through the up and down section to "lock the nut on. Boy I bet that sounds confusing however they do work but is there a hole in the main shaft to put the pin thru ?? As allready noted it is an odd shaped nut (normally larger than standard ) which allows amateur mechanics to tighten down a bit more without rounding the flats of the nut ??? Mark Sullivan - -----Original Message----- From: Faure, Marin [mailto:Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com] Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2001 10:26 AM To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' Subject: LRO: Re: special tool Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool >>whatsa big deal? Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer >junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel. That >and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal. Torque be damned, tighten the >thing as tight as you can get it. >Oh, OK. This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover owners. People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly. I sure wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land Rovers are. It's not the car's fault. The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end of the mainshaft on some vehicles. In a correspondence with someone off-list, I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type nut, and this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual. But many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") Anyway, this obviously explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it. I don't know if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to resort to a normal nut on the day they made mine. But on mine, the instructions simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against two sides of the hex nut. My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a standard number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the stupid castleated thing an put on a normal nut? Making a washer with tabs to bend up against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut. I don't know because one of the the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold up against a hex nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey realized they could be in there). I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more money than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or you may not install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on. But in the case of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the problem go away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special tool (or a bar and a rock). ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:27:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: 300TDI (ridiculous) prices? On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:12:47 +0200, Paul Oxley wrote: >Ahem! I didn't want to throw this in the mix (we had a 9 month flamefest >on the za-lro about it), but perhaps you should be aware that the engine >in question is becoming known as the "TDie". Read some of the reports on >http://landyonline.co.za/issues/tdi_longevity.htm before you even >consider this engine. Paul, I took a look at the site. Interesting. A few comments though, a some rhetorical questions. The most common failure/replacement was the timming belt. You also need to do this on any engine with a timming belt, like the V8's. Of course due to the close tolerances of a diesel, there is more damage usually when it breaks, although newer petrol engines can suffer quite a bit too. In any case, I wouldn't run it with a timming belt, I'd convert at new to a set of Zeus timming gears. I think timming belts are the spawn of the devil. The other common failure was turbos. In my experience (rebuilding turbos) and observations, most people don't know how to drive and care for a turbo equiped vehicle, cars/suv's in particular. You can not drive them like a non-turbo. How often did they check/change the oil? Injectors were replaced a good bit, but most were at well over 150,000km. Not *too* bad. Also, we have no way to know filter maint. or fuel quality, a *huge* factor in injector and pump longevity. Did they have a water seperator, or just a filter? Things like alternators, powersteering etc aren't really related to it being a diesel most likely. Starters can be a big expense in a diesel. It's more important to have a good battery, proper sized cables to avoid voltage drop, and really clean solid connections. A starter turning slower than it should shortens it's life, and the above points contribute to low voltage at the starter which = slow turning. Cold weather doesn't help either :-) Most of the engine failures were due to coolant loss, one even becuase the rad hose wasn't put on correctly (I don't count this one). But most diesels are qucikly toast if you run without coolant. Again, I'd like to know which failures are dues to a design fault vs. poor/incorrect maint. I'd like to see a similar site/study of V8's. Anyway, those are my first impressions and two cents worth. Cheers Tom Rowe Atlanta, GA Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:07:27 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide. I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?". I can read a wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then I've found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and bastardize it to -. Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA - ------------ Keith's page de home: http://keith.miata.net - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:22:28 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool Hi All-- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > But > many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal > tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") No, Marin, it is not. The word for which you search is "castellated." As in reminiscent of castle battlements, where archers hide behind the high parts and shoot through the low parts. -ly y'rs, Ivan - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org/ http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 20:26:06 -0600 From: Ivan Van Laningham Subject: Re: LRO: Re: special tool Hi All-- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut Oh, and that should be "bizarro"; "bizarre" and "bazaar" both have one "z", and the angular alternate Superman universe to which you refer was spelled, after "bizarre," "Bizarro." -ly y'rs, Ivan;-) - ---------------------------------------------- Ivan Van Laningham Symantec http://www.pauahtun.org/ http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70 Author: Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:05:34 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. How are the coil leads hooked up? The truck should run wiht them in either position, but the spark is not as strong (or so I remember hearing). Check your coil, and it should tell you what's up, and how it is wired. As far as I know, you can reverse the polarity without frying anything. But then again, I'd ask someone who knows what they are talking about... JL - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Tanner To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 10:07 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. > It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I > was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide. > > I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone > already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I > tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply > switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?". I can read a > wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually > work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around > and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then I've > found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and > bastardize it to -. > > Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA > ------------ > Keith's page de home: > http://keith.miata.net > ------------ > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jean-Leon Morin wrote: :How are the coil leads hooked up? The truck should run wiht them in either :position, but the spark is not as strong (or so I remember hearing). Check :your coil, and it should tell you what's up, and how it is wired. : :As far as I know, you can reverse the polarity without frying anything. But :then again, I'd ask someone who knows what they are talking about... the generator needs to be properly polarized. I don't know how you do that to the Lucas generator, but I' m sure someone does. : - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:19:48 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: special tool Well, the "castellations"? if they can be called that, are horizontal, not vertical like on the normal castellated nut. So no, there is no hole for a pin as it would do no good. Mark Sullivan wrote: > > Yes castellated is the correct term ,they resemble an "old english castle > tower" with the up and down stonework where olde archers used to fire and > hide. normally used when a pin is inserted through the up and down section > to "lock the nut on. Boy I bet that sounds confusing however they do work > but is there a hole in the main shaft to put the pin thru ?? As allready > noted it is an odd shaped nut (normally larger than standard ) which allows > amateur mechanics to tighten down a bit more without rounding the flats of > the nut ??? > > Mark Sullivan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Faure, Marin [mailto:Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com] > Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2001 10:26 AM > To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' > Subject: LRO: Re: special tool > > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 01 16:06:44 -0700 > From: TeriAnn Wakeman > Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool > > >>whatsa big deal? Do like I did and get thee to the hardware store or yer > > >junque pile and get a 12 inch chunk of 1/4 inch square mild steel. That > >and a hammer or rock, and its a done deal. Torque be damned, tighten the > > >thing as tight as you can get it. > > >Oh, OK. This level of repair seems all too common with series Land Rover > owners. People take REAL pride in NOT doing things correctly. I sure > wish people would quit complaining about how unreliable series Land > Rovers are. It's not the car's fault. > > The problem seems to be that Land Rover used a bizzaro nut on the end > of the mainshaft on some vehicles. In a correspondence with someone > off-list, > I mentioned that my mainshaft had on it from the factory a regular hex-type > nut, and > this is what is illustrated in my Land Rover factory service manual. But > many of you seem to have some sort of castleated thingy that normal > tools won't fit. (is that a word, "castleated?") Anyway, this obviously > explains why I had no trouble with the rear nut, as it's a standard > hex nut size and a normal socket for that size fits on it. I don't know > if Land Rover wised up and decided to put a normal nut on the thing after > such-and-such a year, or if they ran out of the bizzaro nuts and had to > resort > to a normal nut on the day they made mine. But on mine, the instructions > simply say tighten down fully and bend two tabs of the washer up against > two sides of the hex nut. > > My point is, if the threads on the back end of the output shaft are of a > standard > number and pitch (I realize they may not be), why not simply get rid of the > stupid > castleated thing an put on a normal nut? Making a washer with tabs to bend > up > against two sides of the hex nut should be easy enough, or the stock washer > for the bizzaro nut might work fine with a hex nut. I don't know because > one of the > the lock washers that came with my first Fairey overdrive was built to fold > up against a hex > nut (so I guess Land Rover must have used hex nuts enough that Fairey > realized > they could be in there). > > I agree with TeriAnn that using the wrong tool can end up costing you more > money > than if you'd gone out and bought or rented the right tool to start with. Or > you may not > install something properly, which comes back to bite you later on. But in > the case > of this transmission nut issue, I wonder if there's a way to make the > problem go > away altogether by simply switching to a nut that doesn't require a special > tool > (or a bar and a rock). > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 05:31:17 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: East Range > That's good looking rope on that winch. > > Looks like you had a great trip. Now, to get used to the NW, you need to do > it again while a steady stream of ice water pelts the side of your head and > trickles down to your seat and legs. > Oh don't worry, I am rebuilding the door tops. And heater. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 05:42:40 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Thank you > The best and closest answer came from George Simmons who lives 18 miles from me > and has 3 Land Rovers. 3? Hmm, he must of done some spring cleaning. Think he had 5-1/2 when I was visiting last fall :-) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:58:00 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. >the generator needs to be properly polarized. I don't know how you do that >to the Lucas generator, but I' m sure someone does. According to TeriAnn's writeup on switching polarity, it seems to involve simply sparking the F terminal with the appropriate polarity. Seems easy enough. Even I can do that without asking lots of questions. Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly polarized generator - out of curiousity. My coil seems to be hooked up with the ground attached to the CB pole, which indicates positive ground. I'm going to assume that's the case and carry on with converting it to (what I believe is) negative ground. Keith - ------------ Keith's page de home: http://keith.miata.net - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 06:43:30 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Roll cages > Nice pictures of your East Range Adventure. Only problem is the pictures > don't show how scary it was. Amazing how hard it is to photograph reality. ain't that the truth > I need two full roll cages for 88's like yours that will take the place of > the hoops. Easy > > For the 109, I would like a single roll bar that will go in the extra holes > at the front corners of the rear bed. 109's have the same hoop holes as the > 88 where the front top hoops go and another set slightly aft at the inside > corners of the rear bed. The official military roll bar goes in this second > set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to > reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar. So just a single hoop? No legs? When Dave gets back from his current work trip we are going to make a full 3 hoop cage for his 109. The forward most hoop will go in the second puka as you describe so that the stock softtop hoop and window suround can still be used. Also allows for a side to side bar, without interfering with the load area and provides mounts for the shoulderbelts. Tabs can be fitted to this bar to support a roof rack. The soft top will need to have a button hole cut and stiched in the same area. The 109 middle bar would be the same. The tabs on the rear bar go straight back, so no mods required for the tilt. We are building James bumper and push bar on Saturday. Will start bender yours then also. Because of the accident the tub on The Project is out of square, so can't use my cage as the template. For your 88's, i need the distance front to rear of the pukas on each side, and then side to side measurment for front and rear pukas, and finally corner to corner. | | then = and finally X. Take the measurements from the center of the pukas. Do you have soft tops on the 88's? Do you have the full window surounds and need mounting tabs on the front bar? Do you want tabs for the roof rack? I will be putting my tabs on this weekend and will let you know when the photos are up on the web. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:55:58 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Still at it? It's 1 am! I thought I was pulling a late night, doing some CAD for school... doing a semesters work in one night is tough. Where'd I put that coffee cup? Seriously, I don't think you can wreck much. Are you leaving the voltage regulator on the truck, or are you removing it completely? That's probably the only part you could possibly fry (unsure of this - Never actually had to deal with a broken one). I think by polarizing the generator with your battery, establishing that it does have - polarity, and going from there, is your best bet. J-L - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Tanner To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:58 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. > > >the generator needs to be properly polarized. I don't know how you do that > >to the Lucas generator, but I' m sure someone does. > > According to TeriAnn's writeup on switching polarity, it seems to involve > simply sparking the F terminal with the appropriate polarity. Seems easy > enough. Even I can do that without asking lots of questions. > > Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly > polarized generator - out of curiousity. > > My coil seems to be hooked up with the ground attached to the CB pole, > which indicates positive ground. I'm going to assume that's the case and > carry on with converting it to (what I believe is) negative ground. > > Keith > ------------ > Keith's page de home: > http://keith.miata.net > ------------ > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 00:01:19 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Roll cages On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote: :> corners of the rear bed. The official military roll bar goes in this :second :> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to :> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar. : :So just a single hoop? No legs? Yup. It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll. I guess you could stick a gun on it, though... - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 01:38:19 EDT From: Sjust1925@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: Roll cages - --part1_104.211a7df.280fd3cb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Speaking of low speed rolls that's about all mine would be good for as well. I wanted something to mount the seat belts to and RN wasn't selling their 'MOD protection bars' at the time due to litigious reasons . . thankfully.( too much $) Anyway I found a 'bar' from at a local International Harvester parts dealer, for Forty Dollars. The bar is used in a Harvester to hold the Bimini top if I understood the guy correctly. To my amazement the width of the bar was exactly the same as the galvanized capping on the Rover. I welded nuts into the bar for the seat belts, had it dipped and then mounted it far enough back as to not interfere with the truck cab in the winter. Over all it works great for what i wanted (firm seat belt attachment) but it would hardly stand up to any severe test or roll over (I doubt the cab would far all that well either) Scott Just '68 109 Rochester, MI. > On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote: > > :> corners of the rear bed. The official military roll bar goes in this > :second > :> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to > :> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar. > : > :So just a single hoop? No legs? > > Yup. It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll. I guess > you could stick a gun on it, though... > > - --part1_104.211a7df.280fd3cb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      Speaking of low speed rolls that's about all mine would be good for as
well. I wanted something to mount the seat belts to and RN wasn't selling
their 'MOD protection bars' at the time due to litigious reasons . .
thankfully.( too much $)  
      Anyway I found a 'bar' from at a local International Harvester parts
dealer, for Forty Dollars.  The bar is used in a Harvester to hold the Bimini
top if I understood the guy correctly. To my amazement the width of the bar
was exactly the same as the galvanized capping on the Rover. I welded nuts
into the bar for the seat belts, had it dipped and then mounted it far enough
back as to not interfere with the truck cab in the winter.  
      Over all it works great for what i wanted (firm seat belt attachment)
but it would hardly stand up to any severe test or roll over (I doubt the cab
would far all that well either)
Scott Just
'68 109
Rochester, MI.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Hope Peter wrote:

:> corners of the rear bed.  The official military roll bar goes in this
:second
:> set of pukas and has a reinforcing bracket that bolts in the bed to
:> reinforce the corner of the bed and add support to the bar.
:
:So just a single hoop?  No legs?

Yup.  It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll.  I guess
you could stick a gun on it, though...



- --part1_104.211a7df.280fd3cb_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:43:07 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Look at the battery. If the negative '-' terminal cable goes to the frame or to the engine, its already been converted to negative earth. Won't hurt to make the changes outlined in TAW's web site or any other that describes how to change over. From memory its only a one or two wires and repolarizing the generator to make the change. Changing polarity is about the easiest thing that you can do to your Rover and takes about 20 minutes if you are really slow, like me. If you want to find out how to do it and TAW's description is not clear enough for you, try RN's tech section. >From: Keith Tanner >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:07:27 -0400 > >It's got a generator (I think). It was a + earth truck from the factory. I >was already using TeriAnn's writeup as my guide. > >I was preparing to convert it to - earth...but I'm wondering if someone >already beat me to it due to what I'm looking at. So again - how could I >tell? Therein lies my question - or perhaps I should say: "If I simply >switch the leads on the battery, will I blow something up?". I can read a >wiring diagram but I'm not 100% sure of how some of these things actually >work inside. If nothing will die, I'm gonna simply turn the battery around >and see how the truck behaves. If the charging problem goes away, then I've >found out what's going on. If not, I'll assume it's still + earth and >bastardize it to -. > >Keith Tanner and Basil the confused IIA >------------ >Keith's page de home: > http://keith.miata.net >------------ > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:50:19 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Jate rings was(Re: LRO: Roll cages) > :So just a single hoop? No legs? > > Yup. It's sort of worth less for anything but a low speed roll. I guess > you could stick a gun on it, though... > 1st-sorry, I meant to send this to Peter directly. 2nd-mighty small gun, .30 at the most, or a recoiless, or a ATM. The turtletop Hummers have a pretty hefty rollbar combined with the kevlar top and B-pillars supporting the weapon cupola and a .50 or a Mk19 still rock the vehicle bigtime. MATES here just had to replace a turtle top from one of the Scout Platoon gunships because the cage and support cracked. So if anyone needs a hatchback for their Hummer let me know, this one is sitting next to the scrap heap free for the taking. Oh and I picked up a dozen 6ton U shackles today and a couple of Hummer Jate rings. The Jate rings are rated at 14500 lbs and have a 3" opening. Bolt is the same diameter as the leaf springs. So is this a good place to put the Jate rings? My other option is to just bolt them on using the receiver pin holes. If I do that then the Rover will be truely sling loadable. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 02:37:04 EDT From: SFmms@aol.com Subject: LRO: Re: OD nut tool - --part1_31.139ca106.280fe190_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Wallace writes: > There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted > a CAD drawing also I believe. > It was me. The drawing was originally from Kelly Minnick and I changed it a bit to mate with a hex socket, have a slip fit on the shaft and tolerances to cope with the variations I measured in off the shelf castellated nuts. I didn't make them, rather I had a machinist make them and he still sells them at close to cost. I got to keep the prototype for my trouble. A mechanic I know has even used his with a compressed air tool and it is still holding up (though not necessarily recommended). Karen Sindir '74 SIII 88 Red Rufy '66 SIIa 88 Barbaros '95 Disco EFE - --part1_31.139ca106.280fe190_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Wallace writes:

There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted
a CAD drawing also I believe.

It was me. The drawing was originally from Kelly Minnick and I changed it a
bit to mate with a hex socket, have a slip fit on the shaft and tolerances to
cope with the variations I measured in off the shelf castellated nuts. I
didn't make them, rather I had a machinist make them and he still sells them
at close to cost. I got to keep the prototype for my trouble. A mechanic I
know has even used his with a compressed air tool and it is still holding up
(though not necessarily recommended).

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 Red Rufy
'66 SIIa 88 Barbaros
'95 Disco EFE
- --part1_31.139ca106.280fe190_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:43:36 +0100 From: "Steve Mace" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers I suppose looking at your pay cheque each month has some compensation as well :-) (charged £120 - 200USD - for 20 mins consultation last year). On 18 Apr 2001, at 15:43, Luis Ml Gutiérrez wrote: > But, as a lawyer, I have something to say about it: > I'm not only used to be the subject of 30% of all existing jokes, but I > actually learned to enjoy it. Steve 1972 SIII LtWt Green 1993 D90 Red - ------------------------------------- Name: Dr Steve Mace E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk www: http://www.solwise.co.uk Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate) Fax: 0845 458 4559 Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877 - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:32:22 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Of course, the coil works just fine hooked up backwards. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. Errrr....output voltage is lower..... It runs, yes, but runs better with the proper polarity....and yes I measured it (didn't believe it either....). ajr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:39:01 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Now what would be the result of running a truck that had an incorrectly polarized generator - out of curiousity. It won't charge. That's it. Just flash the field leads with a lead from the battery hot terminal and it will do fine.... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:06:12 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest? ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #345 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Thu Apr 19 16:39:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3JKd4N19016 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:39:04 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3JJZCk03941 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3JJZB803936 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:35:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22040 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3JIpiN06964 for lro-digest-gone; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:51:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:51:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200104191851.f3JIpiN06964@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #346 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 346 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:41:24 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Easton Trevor A wrote: > > So, Luis, you're a lawyer. Honest? In spite of your little pun there Trevor I can vouch for the honesty and integrity of Luis. I have never seen anyone so determined to pay a $10 bill. John and Muddy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:22:45 EDT From: Sjust1925@aol.com Subject: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings Anyone know of a supplier for Tread Plate for the wings of an Series 2a, prefer black. Either stateside or the UK is fine Thanks Scott Rochester, MI. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:35:16 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings Re: Tread plate: The aluminum tread plate I'm familiar with is easily cut and sanded/filed. A local supplier of plate, a jigsaw and some homemade cardboard templates would likely be a good inexpensive solution. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 06:54:38 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: sIII gearbox troubles - --- Casey McMullen wrote: > 1) The steel syncro teeth on 1st and 2nd gears are worn, not allowing > the > syncros to mate, both gears should be replaced. > 2) A slightly loose mainshaft nut allowed play in the shaft, probably > exacerbating the previous item. (I have the tool now) > 3) Mainshaft bearings could be worn (they seem fine to me). > 4) During the rebuild, mismatched gear sets were used. Well, I don't live anywhere near Mountain View, so I can't see the parts, but it goes without saying- despite which I will say it anyway- that any gears which show wear as you have described should be replaced. They certainly are not going to get any better. It wouldn't hurt to replace the 1/2 synchro hub while you're at it. It's safe to assume the wear has occured there as well, since it's teeth (splines actually) have to mate with the ones on the gears. Look at the drive teeth inside the 3/4 synchro, most I've seen that have any sort of mileage tend to be worn quite a ways through, and they are thin to begin with. You may want to order a new 1/2 shift fork, wear in them can cause popping out of gear. Just look for scoring on yours or compare it to the new one. Also replace all the detent balls. Replace the thrust washer for 3rd gear, and all the bushings. (1st and 2/3) leave reverse alone unless it shows visible wear, same with the layshaft. The only gears in a Series III 'box that come as matched sets are the input shaft and layshaft constant speed gear (4th gear essentially). the reason for this being that the layshaft is one solid piece so there is no chance of using matched sets unless you replace all the gears at once. FWIW, I rebuilt my SIII box 5 years ago, because it popped out of 1st almost all the time. Which would be scary on a steep descent. I tried several times to tighten the mainshaft rear nut and also to adjust the shift fork closer to 1st gear on its control rod. But none of it worked and adjusting the shift fork only succeeded in making 2nd gear pop out as well. Recently, after letting someone try to learn stickshift driving on ym SIII, 2nd gear started popping out again. I remembered that when I rebuilt the box the first time, I adjusted the shift fork all the way towards 1st gear. So I popped the cover off and moved the shift fork closer to the middle of its range of position. This actually fixed the problem. But the shift fork was worn a bit where my friend tried to jam it into gear against a reluctant synchro. The reluctant synchro in my case being caused by somewhat amateurish installation of the gearbox that presumably cause some fault in the flywheel pilot bush to input shaft interface. So the gearbox can be a bit grabby. Given all this and having just re-read your message, I would say definitely get a new shift fork and compare them. I doubt yours is still good after all that attempting to force the gear lever. Since you have the thing apart and the gears etc are worn, I would go ahead and replace any parts whose surface has been disfigured in any way. A little polish on the running surfaces of gear teeth is ok, and expected. But pitting, scoring, chips, rounded syncro teeth, bluing, rust, etc. mean those parts are done for. When you replace the gearbox into the truck, take some the time to have the flywheel checked for flatness and machined if necessary (about 20 bucks or so when I did mine), replace the flywheel bush, which should be soaked in 90 weight overnight if at all possible, and replace the clutch disc as a matter of course unless it has under, say 10k miles, and the pressure plate if it has any surface discoloration or wear, or wear on the fingers where the throwout bearing rides. Replac ethat as well, RN sotcks a newer type wehre the beairng is more positively locked to it's sleeve, I have seen the old type seperate, which is bad. Replace the staple that holds that in place, and check the plastic socket in the release fork, and replace the pushrod clip and check the length of the pushrod. When you actually put the gearbox in, use 4 pieces of 3/8 coarse thread rod about 6" longt threaded into the engine's flywheel housing, at 10, 2 4 and 8 o'clock positions. Assuming you've properly centered the clutch disc and p.plate on the flywheel, *lightly* grease the splines on the input shaft. This helps the disc move around the way it should; too much though will spit out onto the disc and ruin it. USe the four pieces of threaded rod to help align the gearbox properly to the engine, which by the way should be blocked up by a 3/4" piece of wood on top of the bellhouisng crossmember. Ease the box toward the flywheel, and when you feel the splines trying to engage, you can put the box in gear and turn the handbrake until it slides home. Try not using the threaded rod or bellhousing nuts to suck the two units together, they are powerful enough to casue damage to the pilot bush. You cna get the box almost all the way in most of the time if you are patient and gentle and have a lifting setup that makes it fairly easy to tilt the box backward or forward. I've done it with a 2 x 4 across between the roof channels over the doors and a come along, and a simple rope sling. happy rebuilding dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:04:49 -0400 From: John Karlsson Subject: Re: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings As a possible alternative, you might consider the rubber matting with diamond plate pattern that I obtained from Griot's Garage, if memory serves. It wouldn't add much to stiffness, if that's what you're after, but it would make walking around up there a lot nicer. I have some left over after making a set of floor mats, and I'm thinking about gluing some to the top of the rear wheel wells, so the dogs don't skitter around so much on turns. John At 09:35 AM 4/19/2001, you wrote: >Re: Tread plate: > >The aluminum tread plate I'm familiar with is easily cut and sanded/filed. >A local supplier of plate, a jigsaw and some homemade cardboard templates >would likely be a good inexpensive solution. > > ajr John Karlsson 956 Main Street P.O. Box 1023 Hope Valley, RI 02832 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Pranks (was steering clunk) - --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: >if you have an > annoying friend who's bugging you with his "my Land > Rover's perfect" speeches, grab yourself a container of > engine oil and pour a bit under the front and rear crank > seals of the engine. Cute idea, but with Land Rovers, quite unnecessary... And that explains RedSq's bad rear main. I'm gonna get you Spen... later dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:21:45 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings David Gage of Thatched Roof Garage fame sells wing protectors (bare AL is all I've seen him have, but he might could get black too) for a ludicrously low price. He's at (423)578-6887. Last time I got a price from him it came out WAY cheaper than buying a few feet of diamond plate at Home Despot. bill On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:22:45 EDT Sjust1925@aol.com writes: > Anyone know of a supplier for Tread Plate for the wings of an Series > 2a, prefer black. > Either stateside or the UK is fine > Thanks > Scott > Rochester, MI. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:41:02 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings Try David Gage at www.thatchedroofgarage.com I think he sells them for $75US for a pair. You can paint 'em black. >>> Sjust1925@aol.com 04/19/01 09:22AM >>> Anyone know of a supplier for Tread Plate for the wings of an Series 2a, prefer black. Either stateside or the UK is fine Thanks Scott Rochester, MI. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:47:17 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: RE: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings I think his are not 5 bar diamond plate though, I think they are 1. I could be wrong. This may be important to you or not. Matt - -----Original Message----- From: William J. Rice [mailto:jarvis64@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 10:22 AM To: lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: Re: LRO: Tread Plate for Wings David Gage of Thatched Roof Garage fame sells wing protectors (bare AL is all I've seen him have, but he might could get black too) for a ludicrously low price. He's at (423)578-6887. Last time I got a price from him it came out WAY cheaper than buying a few feet of diamond plate at Home Despot. bill On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:22:45 EDT Sjust1925@aol.com writes: > Anyone know of a supplier for Tread Plate for the wings of an Series > 2a, prefer black. > Either stateside or the UK is fine > Thanks > Scott > Rochester, MI. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:05:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: Tread plate [SJH] I wonder if you could have them anodized black rather than painting. I have no idea is anodizers are as common as galvanizers, but its worth a thought. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:13:11 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Air Compressors I think this came up last year during a long thread about "dream garage" plans. I'm planning a leaf spring swap soon and need some advice about air compressor / air tool selection. I understand the oil-free compressors are loud as hell, so I know I want the "oiler" type. I've looked on several web sites and it's amazing the number of different configurations that are out there. I'm looking for something very sturdy and powerful enough to run a grinder, and wrench (easy removal of spring shackle bolts and other rusted fasteners) and maybe even a paint gun at some point. Can any of you folks out there who have these and use them a lot give me some pointers? Thanks Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:28:44 -0400 From: Matt Peckham Subject: LRO: RE: Tread plate there's always powdercoating too. becoming more popular as it's not just an aluminum thing. - -----Original Message----- From: SJH [mailto:SHARDING@SCHULTE-LAW.COM] Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 11:05 AM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Tread plate [SJH] I wonder if you could have them anodized black rather than painting. I have no idea is anodizers are as common as galvanizers, but its worth a thought. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:30:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors i bought a used industrial compressor about 10 years ago and i am pleased with it. it was run continously for 30 years before i bought it. the owner needed more air. i called the factory -- they still make replacement parts. mine was made in 1967. cast iron. reputible brand (quincey). i would probably go that route again ... ray harder On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, RON WARD wrote: > Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:13:11 -0400 > From: RON WARD > Reply-To: lro@works.team.net > To: lro@works.team.net > Subject: LRO: Air Compressors > > I think this came up last year during a long thread about "dream garage" plans. I'm planning a leaf spring swap soon and need some advice about air compressor / air tool selection. I understand the oil-free compressors are loud as hell, so I know I want the "oiler" type. I've looked on several web sites and it's amazing the number of different configurations that are out there. > > I'm looking for something very sturdy and powerful enough to run a grinder, and wrench (easy removal of spring shackle bolts and other rusted fasteners) and maybe even a paint gun at some point. Can any of you folks out there who have these and use them a lot give me some pointers? > > Thanks > > Ron Ward > Sincerely, Ray Harder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:34:17 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors I have an oilless compressor - they are hellishly noisy. Definitely stay away from them if at all humanly possible. That being said, other than tyres and the like I don't find air tools all that handy. A good ratchet and breaker bar set serves me as well - between the noise, power use and all that I do quite nicely with electric tools like an angle grinder, rahter than air tools for everything. It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 is more than adequate. Were I to be doing this commercially I might feel different - but by the time I get the damn wrenches out and the hoses and everything else it doesn't seem worth the bother. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:34:26 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Air Compressors Ron, Best compressor value I've seen is at Sam's Club: 80-gallon, two stage, 220v,Coleman... $720. Enough shop air for anything...Bought one 3 years ago...no problems...(used 3 2.25 diesel engine mounts to mount to concrete shop floor and black iron pipe for distribution, but I have seen good results with common schedule 40 PVC...take a look at compressor OEM web sites(various) for proper design of air distribution system for locations of valves, regulators, dryers, drains, etc...especially important if you are contemplating any painting.) JT/ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 08:40:32 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool > Yawn. Come on. Its not an F-16 or Ferrari for crying out loud. I said >I've had NO problems over the last year with tranny/OD reliability since >tightening the nut "incorrectly" You are quite right. Series Land Rovers are not precision machines. They are very simple machines for what they do. For the most part, components are seriously overbuilt for their intended use. A series Land Rover will keep going with a lot of missing, wrong or incorrectly assembled parts. One of the things I love about them is that they are marvels of simplistic over design engineering. Even though some assemblies such as it's 1932 Rover passenger car gearbox is way under strength for it's Land Rover application it is still simple. Unlike with most cars, you can just put parts sorta together and expect them to function. They can be repaired in the boonies with little more than a screw driver and a crescent wrench using whatever parts are at hand. It doesn't take a lot to fix them to the point where they can limp home. During the 23 years I have owned The Green Rover I have broken an incredible collection of parts and she has always made it home under her own power. Considering what I have broken, I'm in awe of that feat. So yes I do agree with you. You can kludge a series Land Rover together and expect it to run. And the parts used don't even have to be assembled correctly and the darn things will still run. Pretty amazing. My Land Rover has the wrong engine and gearbox and it runs just fine. But I am one of those people who are anal retentive about proper assembly and using parts that are both correct for their intended use and in very good or better condition. The fact that I take pride in a properly assembled Land Rover hybrid whose parts are in good working condition is one of my personal hangups that doesn't need to be shared by every other Land Rover owner. I know some people who take a great deal of pride in the fact that their Land Rover still runs in spite of its condition. Still others that take a great deal of pride in such things as engineering a way to keep the high low range shifter from rattling when the less than two dollar anti rattle spring falls out. The challenge of designing an alternate method of keeping the lever from rattling is to them at lot more interesting than just replacing the spring. Heck I take a great deal of pride in coming up with a different power plant that allows my Land Rover to safely climb steeper grades. So my apologies in trying to force you and others into the kind of Land Rover maintenance I feel a personal need to perform. There are many ways to maintain and enjoy a Land Rover. SO please accept my apologies and maintain your own Land Rover in a way that makes you happiest. Just excuse my postings on the subject as those of an old lady with a torque wrench and compression gauge fetish. TeriAnn Wakeman If you send me direct mail, please Santa Cruz, California start the subject line with TW - twakeman@cruzers.com I will be sure to read the message http://www.shadow-catcher.net <- Photography for sale http://www.overlander.net <- Web directory for Land Rover http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman <- My personal web site "In the world of type A & type B drivers consider me a type C gypsy traveler. Destinations are optional and not necessarily desirable." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:47:20 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors For use with air tools don't even think of less than 5hp with a 60 gal tank. Look for a reasonable brand such as Ingersol. John and Muddy RON WARD wrote: > > I think this came up last year during a long thread about "dream garage" plans. I'm planning a leaf spring swap soon and need some advice about air compressor / air tool selection. I understand the oil-free compressors are loud as hell, so I know I want the "oiler" type. I've looked on several web sites and it's amazing the number of different configurations that are out there. > > I'm looking for something very sturdy and powerful enough to run a grinder, and wrench (easy removal of spring shackle bolts and other rusted fasteners) and maybe even a paint gun at some point. Can any of you folks out there who have these and use them a lot give me some pointers? > > Thanks > > Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:52:40 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 is > more than adequate. ajr Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This probably why you have never come to love airtools. John and Muddy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 08:58:18 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: A puzzler. >Okay, here's one for you. How can you tell if a vehicle has been switched >from positive to negative earth? Look at the positive pole on your battery and see if it is routed to the frame or the starter switch. The land Rover is wired for positive earth if the wire goes to the frame. About your amp meter. With the ignition turned off, turn on your headlamps. If the needle swings into the negative side the gauge is wired properly for the current battery polarity. If it swings to the positive side you need to switch the wires on the back of the gauge. If you are not sure if your charging system is working and you feel like you are in over your head, remember that Sears and other companies provide free charging systems diagnostics. I have never had any problem letting them decide if the problem is my generator or my voltage regulator. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:58:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: powdercoating was Tread plate I'd thought about suggesting powdercoating, as I've recently had my middle row seat supports and some other black painted interior bits powder coated, and plan to have the front seat frames and seatbelt mounts, as well as middle seat grab handle (SIII109) and doggy screen powdercoated. I didn't mention powdercoating because I have doubts about the durability of powdercoating outside. If it gets nicked or wears through (and it does, at sharp corners), then water gets under and it rusts and peels of in sheets. I also thought it might be slippery, but maybe powdercoating can be done with a grippy finish. After seeing the contact corrosion between my steel rear seat mounts and the aluminum body last night, I'm a believer in powdercoating parts like this (interior) and prepainting the fasteners, to try to minimize corrosion. Note I said "try" and yes everyone, I understand the fasteners will conduct between the steel and au etc.. etc.... If you did powdercoat the wing protectors and found them slippery, you could go with strips of black grip tape. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 09:09:29 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: head vs engine rebuild >If its a 7-1 head, go ahead and mill that much off but why stop there is its >a late head. Becasue there is only so much metal between the head bottom surface and the water jacket? The early IIA 7:1 head does not have a whole lot of metal between the bottom surface and the water jacket. The later 7:1 head has more metal and can be more reliably shaved to 8:1. Shaving even a late 7:1 head to 9:1 is asking for a reduced head life. I did a little research on the subject once. The results are located at: http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman/LR/FAQ_head.htm TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 12:13:55 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This probably why you have never come to love airtools. John and Muddy Are we talking Craftsman HP here or real HP? Mine is real HP - locked-rotor (Craftsman HP) is likely in the neighborhood of 5 to 7. I've run air tools on it all day - impact wrenches and the like - and never had trouble with pressure or running out of air. Just don't like the damn noisy things, that's all... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 09:27:31 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: RE: LRO: Re: special tool >> > Tight is tight. >Finally, somebody is making sense! Right-o! Be it a 4-40 bolt holding on a bit of trim, a 1/4 inch bolt helping to hold the roof to the roof sides, a 5/8ths bolt holding down a cylinder head or a funny looking nut trying to keep the total power output from your engine from moving a gear out of place. Tight is tight. Finger tight? short wrench tight? breaker bar tight? Who cares about the elasticity of fittings? Oh well, if it works for you and you are happy with the results. That is all that really matters. Your satisfaction in the methods you use. Sorry, this is once again just the ranting of an old lady with a torque wrench fetish. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 01 09:42:53 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: OD nut tool >> There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted >> a CAD drawing also I believe. >> >It was me. The drawing was originally from Kelly Minnick and I changed it a >bit to mate with a hex socket, have a slip fit on the shaft and tolerances >to >cope with the variations I measured in off the shelf castellated nuts. I >didn't make them, rather I had a machinist make them >Karen Sindir These are the OD nut tools that British Pacific sells. They purchase them from the Machine shop that Karen worked with. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:44:11 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Pranks (was steering clunk) --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: >if you have an > annoying friend who's bugging you with his "my Land > Rover's perfect" speeches, grab yourself a container of > engine oil and pour a bit under the front and rear crank > seals of the engine. Ohhh, I guess my neighbors have been doing that to me ever since I got the Rover. Wonder how they got in the garage though? It's funny that the neighbors at the old house took the trouble to do this when the engine was sitting out back in the storage shed ;-) Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:38 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 is > > more than adequate. > ajr > Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This > probably why you have never come to love airtools. > John and Muddy Have to agree with that. I am not saying that you need a 10hp cast pump mounted on a 120 gallon tank, but 1.5 sounds like a pancake compressor used by roofers. For a home shop I would recommend 5hp minimum and a 60 gallon tank. Shooting paint, using a sand blaster, or running a die grinder or sander will suck down air very fast, but for a hobbiest the above size will work well. I only spray small bits and panels at the house, use the downdraft paint booth over at Hickham for bigger jobs. Anyway I have a 6hp pump, but only a 40 gal tank and it works, and it's on wheels. But I plan on getting a bigger tank in the furture. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 13:16:50 -0400 From: "Martin Rothman" Subject: Re: LRO: 3$ for a rod bearing set? Jean-Leon Morin wrote: I'm still wondering if its for real though... http://www.mazdasurplus.com/Rover.asp no affiliations, I was looking for renault alliance parts and fell on this site. - ------------- It is real, however you need to give them a minimum $2000 order..... no joke. Martin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:06:46 +0100 From: "Mike Rogers" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: special tool >>>Yes castellated is the correct term ,they resemble an "old English castle<<< Some "castellated" nuts I have come across have the castellations slightly crushed, thereby crushing the threads within them, producing a self locking nut. Mike Rogers Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid Transferboxleverless 110 project (if you can't get there in a Land Rover you can't get there) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 18:10:06 +0100 From: "Mike Rogers" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: A puzzler. Keith Why not simply "flash" the generator as per changing polarity anyway, if it has not been changed it now will be and if it has you will do no harm. Mike Rogers Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid Transferboxleverless 110 project (if you can't get there in a Land Rover you can't get there) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 10:56:00 -0700 From: SJH Subject: LRO: what do fairey decals look like? Can someone tell me what the overdrive by fairey decals looked like? I understand they were black lettering and a black fairey logo (wings?) in the middle of an oval. Was the background grey, silver? I've never seen an original one, and I'm curious. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:07:32 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors We have horse power and we have horse power. The old line manufactures have a very conservative way of measuring horsepower. 2 horsepower on a Quincy or Ingersoll Rand are very close to the 5hp compressors advertised by Sears, Coleman, Devilbiss, etc. Check the amperage draw not the horsepower. That will tell you what the output really is. As a for instance, believe Quincy makes a nice 2hp 20 gallon portable unit that has the same amperage draw as the 5hp Sears compressors. Another plus of the Quincy is its a really cool maroon color and runs very quiet. My old home quality Ingersoll compressor was a 2hp and worked very well for my use. Even though it was rated at 2hp by IR, it looked uncannily like the 5hp DeVilbiss, etc. If you are buying a home quality compressor from a retail outlet, look for at least 5 hp. The larger the tank, the better but at least 20 gallons. Do not buy the oil less compressors because they are very very noisy. The compressors from the big guys like IR are really nice and really expensive. Their smallest compressors typically start at around $800. Not only are the compressor pumps and motors heavy duty, but the tanks are better, also. They also require at least 20 amps and possibly 30 amps at 220volts. Does your garage have the juice to power one of these compressors Do you need all that fire power in a compressor for occasional home use. Probably not unless you are going to do a lot of sand blasting or other use that requires the pump to be on continuously. I compromised on a $400 Coleman 6.5hp, 15 amp, 220v, 60 gallon tank compressor. Doesn't cycle as much as a smaller tank compressor and has the pressure to power all but the most hungry of power tools. Another plus is its stationary. Don't have to worry about friends wanting to borrow it. Last but not least. The home compressors don't have a super high quality tank. There have been a few reports of rusting out from the inside on compressors that have not had the air bled off, when not in use. Release the air pressure after each use. It also drains moisture in the tank and should greatly extend the tank's life. I replaced the PITA pet cock with a street elbow a short length of pipe (nipple) and a ball check valve to make releasing the pressure very easy. From experience, found that getting down on my hands and knees and groping under the tank to find the valve, then trying to remember which way it had to be turned to release pressure, always going the wrong way, bruising my fingers in the process, didn't encourage releasing the pressure on a daily basis. The street elbow and nipple also act as a reservoir so small amounts of water doesn't pool at the bottom of the tank. Aloha Peter >From: "Hope Peter" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:38 -1000 > > > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > > > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 >is > > > more than adequate. > > ajr > > Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This > > probably why you have never come to love airtools. > > John and Muddy > >Have to agree with that. >I am not saying that you need a 10hp cast pump mounted on a 120 gallon >tank, >but 1.5 sounds like a pancake compressor used by roofers. > >For a home shop I would recommend 5hp minimum and a 60 gallon tank. >Shooting paint, using a sand blaster, or running a die grinder or sander >will suck down air very fast, but for a hobbiest the above size will work >well. I only spray small bits and panels at the house, use the downdraft >paint booth over at Hickham for bigger jobs. Anyway I have a 6hp pump, but >only a 40 gal tank and it works, and it's on wheels. But I plan on getting >a bigger tank in the furture. >Pete > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:20:17 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors I'd planned to run 220 out to my garage if necessary. Right now I run a 'frig, and some lights off the residential 110v service from the house. I suppose a compressor, even wimpy, would draw enough on the 110v to throw a breaker inside the house. Is this true? >>> konacoffee2@hotmail.com 04/19/01 02:07PM >>> We have horse power and we have horse power. The old line manufactures have a very conservative way of measuring horsepower. 2 horsepower on a Quincy or Ingersoll Rand are very close to the 5hp compressors advertised by Sears, Coleman, Devilbiss, etc. Check the amperage draw not the horsepower. That will tell you what the output really is. As a for instance, believe Quincy makes a nice 2hp 20 gallon portable unit that has the same amperage draw as the 5hp Sears compressors. Another plus of the Quincy is its a really cool maroon color and runs very quiet. My old home quality Ingersoll compressor was a 2hp and worked very well for my use. Even though it was rated at 2hp by IR, it looked uncannily like the 5hp DeVilbiss, etc. If you are buying a home quality compressor from a retail outlet, look for at least 5 hp. The larger the tank, the better but at least 20 gallons. Do not buy the oil less compressors because they are very very noisy. The compressors from the big guys like IR are really nice and really expensive. Their smallest compressors typically start at around $800. Not only are the compressor pumps and motors heavy duty, but the tanks are better, also. They also require at least 20 amps and possibly 30 amps at 220volts. Does your garage have the juice to power one of these compressors Do you need all that fire power in a compressor for occasional home use. Probably not unless you are going to do a lot of sand blasting or other use that requires the pump to be on continuously. I compromised on a $400 Coleman 6.5hp, 15 amp, 220v, 60 gallon tank compressor. Doesn't cycle as much as a smaller tank compressor and has the pressure to power all but the most hungry of power tools. Another plus is its stationary. Don't have to worry about friends wanting to borrow it. Last but not least. The home compressors don't have a super high quality tank. There have been a few reports of rusting out from the inside on compressors that have not had the air bled off, when not in use. Release the air pressure after each use. It also drains moisture in the tank and should greatly extend the tank's life. I replaced the PITA pet cock with a street elbow a short length of pipe (nipple) and a ball check valve to make releasing the pressure very easy. From experience, found that getting down on my hands and knees and groping under the tank to find the valve, then trying to remember which way it had to be turned to release pressure, always going the wrong way, bruising my fingers in the process, didn't encourage releasing the pressure on a daily basis. The street elbow and nipple also act as a reservoir so small amounts of water doesn't pool at the bottom of the tank. Aloha Peter >From: "Hope Peter" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: >Subject: Re: LRO: Air Compressors >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:07:38 -1000 > > > Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > > > > It's not like I have a wimpy compressor either - 1.5 Hp running on 220 >is > > > more than adequate. > > ajr > > Sorry AJR 1.5hp isn't even as good as wimpy. Wimpy starts at 2.5hp. This > > probably why you have never come to love airtools. > > John and Muddy > >Have to agree with that. >I am not saying that you need a 10hp cast pump mounted on a 120 gallon >tank, >but 1.5 sounds like a pancake compressor used by roofers. > >For a home shop I would recommend 5hp minimum and a 60 gallon tank. >Shooting paint, using a sand blaster, or running a die grinder or sander >will suck down air very fast, but for a hobbiest the above size will work >well. I only spray small bits and panels at the house, use the downdraft >paint booth over at Hickham for bigger jobs. Anyway I have a 6hp pump, but >only a 40 gal tank and it works, and it's on wheels. But I plan on getting >a bigger tank in the furture. >Pete > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 11:52:02 -0700 From: "Ben Mitchell" Subject: RE: LRO: Air Compressors Lots of people have been making a fuss about how bad oilless compressors are. Now look, they ARE loud, but they also cost a hell of a lot less. I got a Craftsman 80Gal "6.5HP" compressor a couple of years ago. Yes, I tend to exit the garage when it's operating, but with 80Gals of air, unless I'm using the thing constantly I leave the garage more frequently than that anyway. I drain it every once in a while and there's seldom more than an ounce or so of water in it (reasonably dry climate around here). It cost about 1/3 of what a comparable oil based compressor would have. You can always build a box around the thing and put in some fiberglass insulation, and it'll end up at least as quiet as an oilless version (if I ever remodel the garage, I'm going to do this). Short of it is, oilless isn't that bad. Yes there are better ways to go, but don't feel you need to drop $800 to have compressed air. It's a really useful addition to the shop, and it can be done on a reasonable budget. Best, - -Ben ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #346 **********************************************