From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Apr 17 16:28:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3HKSWN09333 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:28:32 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3HJOam26039 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3HJOZ826032 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12139 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3HHsQT05284 for lro-digest-gone; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:54:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:54:26 -0400 Message-Id: <200104171754.f3HHsQT05284@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #341 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, April 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 341 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:29:20 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: Painting a IIa duh... >You mean more retarded, right? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 03:47:24 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Trans output nut tool Just as another option George Simmons had a local machine shop make up the socket with a 1/2 drive square hole in it. If I remember correctly the thing was 28$ and this included shipping. Tool worked great.Very easy to use. George is on the list lurking, maybe this will bring him out of hidding. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:00:31 -0500 From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" Subject: LRO: Ahhhh...youth john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) >>The boy couldn't handle the rover (too much shifting, steering, etc) >> and so the vehicle has been sitting for 4 years >Oh My. perhaps Marin is right afterall. Perhaps...several years ago, I 'arranged' a sale of a IIa 88 - brought the buyer and seller together. The buyer was a rich yuppie buying the rover for his just-turned-17 son. The Rover had a blown head gasket (known before hand) and I helped the owner replace it - or rather, he watched while I worked. No problems, 'cept we needed some new heater hose. The autoparts store was only a half mile away as the crow flies, so the owner flips the keys to his Porsche to the son who rockets out of the driveway. We could hear the engine screaming all the way to the store...and all the way back. I said a short prayer for the Rover, as I knew it wasn't long for the road.... *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is legendary-----* | | | A. P. "Sandy" Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | (757)423-4898 (757)622-7054 FAX (757)622-7056 | | | *----1972 Series III 88"----1996 Discovery SE-7(m)---* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 04:56:38 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: 300TDI (ridiculous) prices? > Ahem! I didn't want to throw this in the mix (we had a 9 month flamefest > on the za-lro about it), but perhaps you should be aware that the engine > in question is becoming known as the "TDie". Read some of the reports on > http://landyonline.co.za/issues/tdi_longevity.htm before you even > consider this engine. Paul, I am glad that you did. As I mentioned previously, I am strongly considering the GMC 6.2 diesel, and your link just reinforces the idea. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:41:57 -0400 From: "David Cockey" Subject: LRO: Re: metal fuel line question- copper I don't think the flow resistance in the fuel line contributes to vapor lock. If you're worried about the resistance heating the fuel up, the heat generated by the viscous losses in the fuel line at LR flow rates are miniscule, especially compared to the heat transfered to the fuel from the hot motor compartment. Rubber hose should be better than metal tubing because the rubber will be a much better insulator and the fuel reaching the carb will be cooler. If you still want to decrease flow resistance go to a larger diameter hose. And if you want to use metal go with plated steel, i.e. brake line. In the past there have been suggestions to re-route the fuel line to keep the fuel cooler. Also, a weak fuel pump can contribute to vapor lock. Have you checked fuel line pressure, though I don't know what it should be. Regards, David Cockey > I'd like to avoid vapor lock altogether and have a theory that the less > resitance the pump is meeting, the better. Thus, the metal line, which I > think was original (have to admit I've not checked), and which I think > will be smoother inside and allow more efficient flow of fuel. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:43:53 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Trans output nut tool Or you can make your own with a piece of pipe that has an I.D. equal to the I.D. of the nut measured inside the notches. Just take your loose nut off, place it on the pipe and mark where the notches are with an appropriate pen. Next cut down 1/4" or so at the ends of the marks with a hacksaw. Then take pliers and bend the pieces until they break out. Weld or have a shop weld a large washer and nut on the other end, and you now have a "special nut tool" for way less than you can buy one for. Thicker walled pipe works better. Hope Peter wrote: > > Just as another option George Simmons had a local machine shop make up the > socket with a 1/2 drive square hole in it. > If I remember correctly the thing was 28$ and this included shipping. > Tool worked great.Very easy to use. > George is on the list lurking, maybe this will bring him out of hidding. > Pete - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:14 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: LRO: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Vel Natarajan wrote: > Though that wouldn't surprise > me. Such is life in the US. Not just the US, although I caught an episode of Dharma & Greg last night where Greg joins the Army reserves, and his commanding General muses on the popular appeal of a brigade of lawyers being involved in a suicidal assault. Anyway, I have several lawyer friends that I am not ashamed of being seen in public with, but anti-lawyer sentiment is quite harsh out here too. Y'all know the one about lab rats being replaced with lawyers? There are more lawyers than lab rats, and there's some things a rat just won't do. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:58:46 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Ahhhh...youth john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) wrote: > >Oh My. perhaps Marin is right afterall. You're scaring me John! Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:02:32 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: LRO: Toy Land Rovers for sale on eBay I've put 94 Land Rover toys up on eBay - you can see them if you search under my seller's name "dogsbreakfast". Best wishes, Dave R ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:28:42 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix Timing marks are for the weak. Or the terminally anal-retenrtive... Why don't you put a IIa pointer on the front cover and notch the blessed pulley? Easy enough to do... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:31:15 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Obscure part needed 8 little rubber bump Go to an electronics parts supply with one of the bumpers in hand, or dig up a good electronics catalogue. The part you describe is used on many electronics bits as a cabinet foot. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 06:36:23 -0500 From: car4doc Subject: Re: LRO: Rob Davis in Chacago Hi All, I see that people on the list have been trying to reach me. My correct & current email address is ( car4doc@core.com ) If any one is looking for me. Thanks, Rob Davis_Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:36:26 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: front cover oil seal -- I need some direction >1) Can I drill out the rivet bodies and use small, long screws and bolts >with loctite to keep it all together or should I go back with rivets >(assuming that I can find some that are long enough), or maybe a new front >cover is in order (God, I hope not). Screws and sealer are most definitely in order. Thread the holes in the cover for machine screws, then the cover can be R&Red from outside, making seals a 5-minute job. >2) Oil seal: The bronze bushing that was left in there; is it possibly >part of the old seal (an original style seal maybe...)? If so, then I have >to assume that the new replacement seal will fit snug in the hole in the >cover against that plate that fell off. Right? The manual isn't >super-explicit in this area. With the front cover off there should be nothing in the boring in the front cover - it should be straight through. Whatever is left in there is leftovers - get rid of it. The back of the new seal should fit flush with the inside of the cover. ajr Thanks and oh, BTW, this is on a 2.25 for a 70 SIIa 88. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:46:41 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: head vs engine rebuild Jim writes: I have heard that if you rebuild a head, you also want to do the lower half or you will blowout the rings More the point I think, is that most engines this is being done to dreally do need an overhaul so it's a good bet to do both. Personally, if the compression was good and the valves and guides weren't I wouldn't hesitate for a minute. aj"Just do it"r ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:52:14 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Bosch alternator for SIIa? A related question then - the directions on the OVLR site mentions a 1970 Nova alternator. The one I got from Canadian Tire has a single pulley - but my generator is only using one pulley anyhow (the inner one). Is the other used for anything? Should I exchange this alternator for the 75 Olds version or is there no difference? The dual-pulley makes it easier to install - single-pulley alternator has to have the mount moved forward 1 inch to get the pulley to line up with the belt travel. Dual-pulley alternator will essentiallly drop onto the mount as-is with no shimming. ` ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:04:55 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: High Amp Reading Stuck contacts in the voltage regulator - the solenoid section that regulates the field is stuck on. WHACK IT A GOOD ONE! Seriously, the contacts are pitted closed - separate them and dress them with a very fine non-conducting abrasive (NO EMERY!). ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:10:17 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: People's Republic.... >Christian fish symbol on her front license plate AND another on the > rear door to her mini van. Should introduce her to the Darwin fish I have on mine..... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:24:26 +0100 From: Ian Stuart Subject: Re: LRO: front cover oil seal -- I need some direction On Tuesday 17 April 2001 12:36 pm, you wrote: > With the front cover off there should be nothing in the boring in > the front cover - it should be straight through. Whatever is left > in there is leftovers - get rid of it. The back of the new seal > should fit flush with the inside of the cover. The workshop manual actually recomends that you use the cover-plate to push the seal in the last mm or two.. - -- --==**==-- Ian Stuart - EdINA, DataLibrary, University computing services. - --------------------------------- Truth is what you believe it to be. I cannot force my facts on you, only make you believe my beliefs. - --------------------------------- http://lucas.ucs.ed.ac.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:15:38 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: religious stuff and flame war I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition !!! NO ONE EXPECTS the Spanish Inquisition!... aj"Ex-clergy - with an emphasis on the EX!"r ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Trans output nut tool - --- TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >there is no excuse for not doing it correctly. Remember folks: you heard it here first...no g*ddamn excuses! Seriously though, the lady is correct. Although I haven't seen where the manual gives torque spec except in the overdrive manual. But if I have one manual that doesn't give a torque spec and one that does, I have a choice, and an excuse I think. And my choice is to keep forgetting to buy the tool so I go with the manual that doesn't require a torque spec, unless I'm doing an overdrive in which case a I borrow the tool from Bill Maloney (remember him?) and keep it for 6 months. Bill will not rent you the tool by the way- the one which allows use of a torque wrench on it or any other similarly shaped object, for that matter- so go find your own. There was someone on the list who made some a few years ago too, and posted a CAD drawing also I believe. Now. was that really helpful? I doubt it. Though I do hope that it was fun to read, and not as windsockish in terms of its length to puffiness ratio, as some others' posts to this list. ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:03:00 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: LRO: mounting of door trim I'm mounting interior trim panels to doors on my '65 88". It's not simply for looks mind you (spurious reply control)... It just too darn cold where I usually spend my winters. However I do want it to look correct & I'd like to do the drilling before I paint. Does anyone have detail pics of the trim mounting location / hdwe. and possibly of the door frame w/ the location of the holes that they could e-mail me or post? I would really appreciate it. regards, - -todd _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:38:18 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: RE: LRO: head vs engine rebuild This makes little sense. The reasons for rebuilding the top and bottom ends are COMEPLETELY different. IT is VERY common to do only top end rebuilds. Case in point: Oval track racing. Many racers cannot afford a full rebuild, and truthfully they rarely need it. So, at least in Nascar, the bottom is disassembled, checked, and put back together, while the top end is rebuilt every race. The entire motor is retired every 6-9 races. A bottom rebuild isn't done, the motor is retired if the bottom goes south. Remember that the bottom end has only two functions. Create vacuum, and turn the flywheel. If these two things are happening to spec... leave the bottom end alone. - -P > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On > Behalf Of Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 7:47 AM > To: lro@Works.Team.Net > Subject: Re: LRO: head vs engine rebuild > > > > Jim writes: > > I have heard that if you rebuild a head, you also want to do the lower > half or you will blowout the rings > > More the point I think, is that most engines this is being done to dreally > do need an overhaul so it's a good bet to do both. > > Personally, if the compression was good and the valves and guides > weren't I > wouldn't hesitate for a minute. > > aj"Just do it"r > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:41:24 -0400 From: Keith Tanner Subject: Re: LRO: Bosch alternator for SIIa? >The dual-pulley makes it easier to install - single-pulley alternator has >to have the mount moved forward 1 inch to get the pulley to line up with >the belt travel. Sounds great...but no parts store that I've visited in Ottawa can find or identify a 10si with a dual pulley. I've been looking and asking questions (hint - a GM parts counter will have no idea what a 10si alternator is but will brag about how many different types are needed for GM cars) and apparantly it was very rare to use a dual pulley on a car. So I've got another single pulley one here and I'm going to see if I can move the pulley further out. Unless someone can give me the model, year and engine type of a car that uses this elusive beastie - or one of those wise old parts guys who knows his entire stock from memory. Finding this has proven to be more difficult than I had anticipated. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:44:58 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Bosch alternator for SIIa? I seem to recall that the fitting is tapered with a key so you won't be able to move the pulley but a dual pulley will fit your alternator. John and Muddy Keith Tanner wrote: > > >The dual-pulley makes it easier to install - single-pulley alternator has > >to have the mount moved forward 1 inch to get the pulley to line up with > >the belt travel. > > Sounds great...but no parts store that I've visited in Ottawa can find or > identify a 10si with a dual pulley. I've been looking and asking questions > (hint - a GM parts counter will have no idea what a 10si alternator is but > will brag about how many different types are needed for GM cars) and > apparantly it was very rare to use a dual pulley on a car. So I've got > another single pulley one here and I'm going to see if I can move the > pulley further out. Unless someone can give me the model, year and engine > type of a car that uses this elusive beastie - or one of those wise old > parts guys who knows his entire stock from memory. Finding this has proven > to be more difficult than I had anticipated. > > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:48:53 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Bosch alternator for SIIa? Keith - 75 Chevy Nova with a 350 V8 and air conditioning should source what you need. it's what I always ask for. More the point, if you can find a rebuilder they can likely sell you a pulley to put on any alternator. Failing either of those, just space the alternator an inch forward and go with the single pulley. I've done both and they work equally well. Mr. C. is a dual-pulley running on the front pulley, Ben Smith's Dora was converted with a single pulley and spacers under the alternator mount,Spencer Norcross' Wayback is a sing;e with the spaced mount and there have been others that escape me at present. Either works - don't bust your hump - just go with what you can get. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:50:24 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: RE: LRO: Re: 300TDI (ridiculous) prices? When I was in London last summer , I test drove a very tidy '71 2-door RR that a young barrister had up for sale, witch had the GM 6.2 Diesel conversion (...a Mark Smith job). Looked good under the bonnet, sounded good from the driver's seat, especially if you like that diesel rattle. A bit noisier than a petrol V8, but tolerable. >From a dead stop, you could let the clutch out in any of the 4 gears, no lugging at all, due to the large amount of torque available. However, top speed in 4th was between 45-50 mph, at the engines governed rev limit. The diffs were original RR...think the ratios should have been changed as part of the conversion? You bet! But that would have cost extra! So be sure to get the ratios right when you do the 6.2 conversion... (BTW, the lad wanted 10k POUNDS for that truck, which, tho it had a new paint job, a complete Nationwide Trim Interior from headliner to carpet snd the GM 6.2, was a rustworm resthome underneath...even showed water under ALL the carpets..."Just had it washed..." said he. Later in the week I had the occasion to meet and speak to Mark Smith at Billing. I mentioned that barrister and his RR...he immediately remembered the lad with more money than brains, whom he had advised to sell his rust-bucket rather than put even more money into it! I often wonder if he still has it...or did he pawn it off on some unsuspecting poor sole...) Pete said: "...As I mentioned previously, I am strongly considering the GMC 6.2 diesel, and your link just reinforces the idea." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 01 07:58:11 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Trans output nut tool >Then take pliers and bend the pieces until they break out. >Weld or have a shop weld a large washer and nut on the other end, and >you now have a "special nut tool" for way less than you can buy one for. You are of course making the assumption that your time is worth nothing and your welder will weld the thing up for less than the cost of buying a tool and that the end pieces left can sustain 95 pounds torque without distorting (You just bent every other one out with a pair of pliers). The new tools tend to be a bit pricey because they are machined out of a solid cylinder of hard steel. This is done so those tiny nut locking tabs can repeatedly withstand 95 pounds of torque. I don't think it matters how one obtains the tool so long as it is legal. What matters is that you have something that will allow you to put 95 foot pounds pressure on that nut to firmly keep the transmission output gear in place and that you have a good condition foldie down washer to lock the nut into place. A loose output gear can act like a number of expensive transmission problems. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:45:39 -0400 From: "Andre Shoumatoff" Subject: LRO: RE: Cruiser overdrive in Rover (WAS: grim news) >> I also have a line on a overdrive that comes out of Australia for the >> Land Cruiser. I am going to inquire with the company about adapting it to >> the >> Rover. Shouldn't be to hard considering they are basicly the same design. >> Best I can do for the time being. >> >> > >Bill, > >If you could swing that, I'd be interested (as long as there are spares for >it). I love my Santana, but I use it as 5th/4 OD almost exclusively, >because, it's gotta last (no spares AFAIK) > >Nate The way I would do it is see if someone can adapt the cruiser tranny to the Rover engine, then you have the stouter TLC tranny (which easily handles V8s of high magnitude), a stouter T-case, and a stouter overdrive. Plus, tranny/t-case combos can be had very cheaply and bolt in with fairly little fabrication I imagine. I was reading somewhere about a series Rover with the Toyota inline 6 and 4 speed direct into a Rover, not too long ago. Since the 2F (latest carburetted model) has 132 hp, the axles should hold up fine and still have a great crawl ratio with the 4.7s. Good luck! Andre Shoumatoff 73 Series III 88HT, 79 FJ40 http://www.uvm.edu/~ashoumat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:59:38 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: RE: LRO:AC Delco 10si was Bosch alternator for SIIa? According to two wise old parts guys in Hamilton, 10si is a family of alternators that could be fitted in as many as 100 different configurations. What is required is a part number from the alternator which should be stamped on the casting. Or an exact vehicle model, year, engine combination. Anyone up to providing this info. [Easton Trevor A] Trevor"Ode to the Diode" Easton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:08:33 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: Re: 300TDI (ridiculous) prices? "Tackley, John" wrote: > Pete said: > > "...As I mentioned previously, I am strongly considering the GMC 6.2 diesel, > and your link just reinforces the idea." You guys need to contact Brian Cotton (brian@landyonline.co.za I think), he has a really nifty GMC 6.2 diesel in a rangie. Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:23:06 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Overdrives Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:39:20 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Overdrives >TAW seems to think the Faerie is good for a 50-60 thousand miles. Has anybody got a lot more miles on their Faerey?? How does that compare with a trouble free life for the Toro and Santana, if anyone has gone more than 50-60 thousand on the Toro and Santana. I had over 100,000 miles on my first Fairey overdrive before I broke it by letting it run low on oil one too many times. Prior to this, it had functioned perfectly (and very quietly), including several very rugged off-road trips in Hawaii and to the Yukon and Northwest Territories. If I hadn't been lax in checking the oil, I'm sure it would still be operating perfectly today. The replacement Fairey is noisier (but only on the over-run), and has perhaps 20,000 miles on so far. _________________________________________ C. Marin Faure Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services telephone (425)393-7721 mobile (206)650-5622 fax: (425)393-7741 e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:33:13 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:07:18 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" >Was driving the SIIA SWB today and noticed it has develoed some sort of clunking sound in the steering. It seems to only occur when cornering at speed.... Could be the springs banging back and forth in their shackles. My SIII did this from the day it was new, so I learned to ignore it. However, this generally occurs at lower speeds while cornering sharply, say turning into a parking space. It also gets worse in the rain, as the water splashing up onto the springs "lubricates" the bushings and bolts and makes the movement easier. This might not be what you're experiencing, but it's a pretty common phenomenon. Range Rovers do it too, although it's a different sort of bushing that's banging about. _________________________________________ C. Marin Faure Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services telephone (425)393-7721 mobile (206)650-5622 fax: (425)393-7741 e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:43:48 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: fuel line fittings Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 12:16:39 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: fuel line fittings On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Todd Ondick wrote: :Does anyone on the list know the size and thread type of the series fuel :line fittings? :My dad had a fitch fuel catalyst fitted to his van several months ago after :barely squeaking past emmissions. Anyhow, He had it tested afterwards and >Why don't you wrap a bunch of twenties around the fuel line? It will have exactly the same effect on the performance of the vehicle, and when you realize how idiotic the thing is, you can take them off and buy gasoline. Until you see a study done by qualified scientists, not in the employ of who ever makes the thing, that says it actually performs as claimed, it's a fraud. Is this the same deal as the cow magnets that were sold as a fuel economizer back in the early '80's? For $50 you got a pair of magnets (oval cow magnets for getting wire out of cows' stomachs that you can buy for 50 cents at a farm supply store), a roll of electrical tape and a sheet of instructions. You taped the magnets to either side of the fuel line and your mileage would go up. The only time I ever saw this work was when a co-worker bought them for his new Plymouth, and we started pouring a gallon or two of fuel into his car every day at lunchtime. The owner was getting 60 mpg in his Plymouth and was preaching to all of us ad nauseum about how incredible these magnets were. About three weeks later, we stopped putting fuel in the car, and the mileage went back to 16 or 17, whatever it normally was. Of course, the owner was stunned. He ordered another set of magnets (for $50) and installed them, but it did no good. He remains to this day (he still runs them on his current car) that they work based on his initial experience, but of course, they don't. _________________________________________ C. Marin Faure Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services telephone (425)393-7721 mobile (206)650-5622 fax: (425)393-7741 e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:47:41 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Cruiser overdrive in Rover (WAS: grim news) - --- Andre Shoumatoff wrote: adapt the cruiser tranny > to the > Rover engine, then you have the stouter TLC tranny (which easily > handles V8s > of high magnitude), a stouter T-case, Stouter T-case my white honky ass..essment of this statement is that it is simply wrong. Why is there a billet aluminum case sold to replace the inherently weak cast one? Careful about these assumptions mate, I know there are differnet types of TLC transfer cases, but not all of them are so great. Of course most (hold the backlash please, I said most not all) series LR owners aren't doing the kind of rock crawling that could cause cracks in cases' casings. Say that 10 times fast, then go pat your Rover on the dashboard and say you are sorry for underestimating the strnegth of its transfer box, which may be its only really bulletproof drive train assmebly. On that note, any stories from folks who have proven otherwise? ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:07:30 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: fuel line fittings The only time I ever saw this work was when a co-worker bought them for his new Plymouth, and we started pouring a gallon or two of fuel into his car every day at lunchtime. I believe I saw this in a Walter Matthau movie called "Pete and TIllie" Matthau and his son were taking great pleasure in tormenting the next-door neighbor who owned a VW Beetle... ajr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:39:02 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: LRO: Help Wanted Do any of you guys (in America for the sake of easy shipping) have a clutch pedal and housing for sale? Mine has "ovaled out" it's hole at the top where the master cylinder plunger goes through. When you press the clutch in there is the "slack" taken up by the play in the bushing and then the hydraulic pressure is there. A replacement or any advice on how to get these bloody things apart would be most welcome. Kind regards, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:47:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: RE: LRO:AC Delco 10si was Bosch alternator for SIIa? On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Easton Trevor A wrote: :According to two wise old parts guys in Hamilton, 10si is a family of :alternators that could be fitted in as many as 100 different configurations. :What is required is a part number from the alternator which should be :stamped on the casting. Or an exact vehicle model, year, engine combination. :Anyone up to providing this info. 75 Olds 88 5.7 L V8, air-con. Don't trust the numbers on the casing. All the casings are the same, and rebuilders don't have any problems mixing things up. Most of configuration differences aren't really important. The back cover can be put on in one of three or four clockings, which changes where the electrical connectors are, but nothing else. That's important for wire routing, but isn't a big deal for a Rover. There are also at least two different types of dual pulleys, both work fine. It's also available in a bunch of different outputs, from 60 A up to about 100A. The 60 amp one is most common, but it won't hurt anything except the wallet to use a bigger one. Air-conditioning is probably what gets you the second pulley. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:49:49 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" - --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > Could be the springs banging back and forth in their shackles. My > SIII did this from the day it was new, so I learned to ignore it. Hang about there...you say what now? Neither of my series trucks does this. Although there is an interesting squeaking sound that apparently comes from the rear suspension, but only when the truck is stationary, and the occupants are not moving. It is a long drawn out squeak, kind of like when the improperly torqued down cap of a 2-liter plastic soda bottle is trying to pass a bubble, and you hear it and go "what the hell is that?" to yourself, or to whoever else happens to be within earshot of said escaping bubble's symphonic release. Then you realize there's a 2-liter plastic soda bottle on the table in front of you or perhaps somewhere else in the room, or in the next room, and after checking in the torque specifications section of the manual ha ha you apply the necessary additional rotation to the 2-liter plastic soda bottle's previously improperly torqued cap. Which has the immediate and oh so final seeming effect of seemingly foiling the bubble's escape, although I suspect that it may actually continue escaping, albeit more quietly, due its detection by those who would seek to prevent said emancipation. If you don't know the sound I'm talking about, then you probably don't drink soda out of 2-liter plastic bottles. However, this is all very long winded and besides the point, which was, and remains, that if your Rover's bushings are banging around in tthe shackles, there is something wrong, and just because they've clunked (or banged or popped or made any other noises that could remotely be indicative of metal to metal contact then non-contact then contact again, etc.) since new does not mean that something is not wrong. Can you ignore it and not have any long term or expensive or just troublesome problems down the road (said road being both figurative as well as literal)? Yes. Should you? That is up to you. Would I? What do you care? My parents owned a Pontiac Phoenix, which had the same body as a Chevy Citation, that they bought new in 1980. It stalled at almost every stoplight, or so it seemd to my wandering 11-year-old mind, as my mind's wanderings were constantly interrupted by streams of muttered parental anglo-saxon at every occurence of the stalling, and the car was in the shop repeatedly for weeks on end as the dealer tried to sort out the cause of the problem. So just because a problem/symptom/feature exists since the date of purchase of the vehicle, it doesn't mean that it doesn't demand attention or perhaps even fixing or repairing of some sort. Although I suspect the response to this from Marin- should he choose to respond to such an inane, unrelated-anectdote-filled and roundabout criticism of a seemingly hardly assailable logic, i.e., that of ignoring the clunk in the suspension of a Series Land Rover, would be that if the Land Rover stalled every time he drove it, he would have had them fix it, or fixed it himself, and that my bringing that up as an example was a terrible excuse for a parallell, in fact, more like a perpendicular, and that seeing as I was only 11 in 1980 which makes me only 31 now, that I am young and ignorant or something to that effect. Although now I am putting words in the mouth, or on the screen if you will, of others which I didn't really set out to do, as much as it may have seemed so due the apparent confusion over the central point of Marin's message that I seem to have had, which now that I am aware of it makes me wonder why I bothered to type this thing in the first place, or rather, why I continued to type it after realizing the flawed nature of my argument and its related parental-Pontiac anectodte. Which, by the way, for those who are curious- and to those I say "Go outside and get some fresh air because there is no reason on god's green earth that you should care about this,"- the point where I relaized the frivolity of my complaint was before I started the very pointless- as I have pointed out repeatedly- comparison between one of the sounds my Land Rover's suspension makes and the sound of a bubble trying to escape from a 2-liter soda bottle. I would be interested to hear from other owners who have experienced the same sound, the one from the suspension, not the soda bottle. Although if you'd like to tlak about the soda bottle sound, or any other sound or really anything at all then please feel free to do so. As a matter of fact, if you've read this far and haven't wanted to strangle me, I'd really like to hear from you. If you do want to strangle me, I assure you it wouldn't be worth the airfare to get here. Or the half gallon of gas if you're in my area. Or Metro fare. Or the rubber or other material off the soles of your (very nice I'm sure) shoes. later daveb ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Re: fuel line fittings - --- Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > > The only time I ever saw this > work was when a co-worker bought them for his new Plymouth, and > we started pouring a gallon or two of fuel into his car every day > at lunchtime. > > I believe I saw this in a Walter Matthau movie called "Pete and > TIllie" > Matthau and his son were taking great pleasure in tormenting the > next-door > neighbor who owned a VW Beetle... Hey if anyone wants to "torment" me by pouring a few gallons of gas into my car every day, well, by all means do so. later daveb ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #341 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Tue Apr 17 22:40:45 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3I2ejN10642 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:40:45 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3I1ao511377 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3I1an811374 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04502 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:36:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3I10LM10582 for lro-digest-gone; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:00:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:00:21 -0400 Message-Id: <200104180100.f3I10LM10582@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #342 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Tuesday, April 17 2001 Volume 01 : Number 342 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:04:35 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Help Wanted Mark, has the pedal ovaled out or is it the pin at the top that's gone bad? If it's the pin it's not a big job to make another one if you have access to even the most minimal tools. If it's the pedal that'as gone toasty a hammer can work wonders with de-ovaling the hole... Where exactly is the bugger worn? aj"And where are you hiding?"r ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Re: fuel line fittings On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, DaveB wrote: : :Hey if anyone wants to "torment" me by pouring a few gallons of gas :into my car every day, well, by all means do so. : Heck, I'd settle for a quart of 20W50. I gotta fix that rear main.... - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:25:30 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: fuel line fittings Hey, isn't the point of playing a joke on someone letting them know that you did it? Of course after 20 year's worth of trusting magnets he'd probably be a might pissed. Supposedly, the catylist disrupts the weak bonds that form between long chain hydrocarbon molecules in gasoline resulting from sitting for long periods. The bad gas in your weed trimmer is a good example of this. By reducing these large, less reactive hydrocarbon groups, combustability of the fuel is improved, reducing emmissions and improving efficiency. I wouldn't be typing this long-winded B.S. if I hadn't seen that it worked. Of course on an antiquated engine such as the 2.25 rover, the effects may be negligible. I'll probably try it out, as they have a 90 day money back guarantee. If it works for the LR I'll spread the word and if not you will mosty likely never hear about it ;^) - -todd >Is this the same deal as the cow magnets that were sold as a fuel >economizer back in the early '80's? For $50 you got a pair of magnets >(oval cow magnets for getting wire out of cows' stomachs that you can >buy for 50 cents at a farm supply store), a roll of electrical tape and >a sheet of instructions. You taped the magnets to either side of the >fuel line and your mileage would go up. The only time I ever saw this >work was when a co-worker bought them for his new Plymouth, and >we started pouring a gallon or two of fuel into his car every day >at lunchtime. The owner was getting 60 mpg in his Plymouth and was >preaching to all of us ad nauseum about how incredible these magnets >were. About three weeks later, we stopped putting fuel in >the car, and the mileage went back to 16 or 17, whatever it normally >was. Of course, the owner was stunned. He ordered another set of >magnets (for $50) and installed them, but it did no good. He remains >to this day (he still runs them on his current car) that they work based >on his initial experience, but of course, they don't. > >_________________________________________ >C. Marin Faure >Producer/Director, Boeing Video Services >telephone (425)393-7721 >mobile (206)650-5622 >fax: (425)393-7741 >e-mail: marin.faure@boeing.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:27:08 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: Re: LRO: Help Wanted It's the top of the pedal. The pin can move back and forth. How do you get the pedal out of the "box" and then the pin out of the pedal and then lastly, the whole lot out of my life? :-) Thanks. Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Mark, has the pedal ovaled out or is it the pin at the top that's gone bad? > If it's the pin it's not a big job to make another one if you have access > to even the most minimal tools. If it's the pedal that'as gone toasty a > hammer can work wonders with de-ovaling the hole... > > Where exactly is the bugger worn? > > aj"And where are you hiding?"r ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:30:18 -0600 From: "Todd Ondick" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" Paragraphs, man, paragraphs! >Hang about there...you say what now? Neither of my series trucks does >this. Although there is an interesting squeaking sound that apparently >comes from the rear suspension, but only when the truck is stationary, >and the occupants are not moving. It is a long drawn out squeak, kind >of like when the improperly torqued down cap of a 2-liter plastic soda >bottle is trying to pass a bubble, and you hear it and go "what the >hell is that?" to yourself, or to whoever else happens to be within >earshot of said escaping bubble's symphonic release. Then you realize >there's a 2-liter plastic soda bottle on the table in front of you or >perhaps somewhere else in the room, or in the next room, and after >checking in the torque specifications section of the manual ha ha you >apply the necessary additional rotation to the 2-liter plastic soda >bottle's previously improperly torqued cap. Which has the immediate and >oh so final seeming effect of seemingly foiling the bubble's escape, >although I suspect that it may actually continue escaping, albeit more >quietly, due its detection by those who would seek to prevent said >emancipation. If you don't know the sound I'm talking about, then you >probably don't drink soda out of 2-liter plastic bottles. However, this >is all very long winded and besides the point, which was, and remains, >that if your Rover's bushings are banging around in tthe shackles, >there is something wrong, and just because they've clunked (or banged >or popped or made any other noises that could remotely be indicative of >metal to metal contact then non-contact then contact again, etc.) since >new does not mean that something is not wrong. Can you ignore it and >not have any long term or expensive or just troublesome problems down >the road (said road being both figurative as well as literal)? Yes. >Should you? That is up to you. Would I? What do you care? My parents >owned a Pontiac Phoenix, which had the same body as a Chevy Citation, >that they bought new in 1980. It stalled at almost every stoplight, or >so it seemd to my wandering 11-year-old mind, as my mind's wanderings >were constantly interrupted by streams of muttered parental anglo-saxon >at every occurence of the stalling, and the car was in the shop >repeatedly for weeks on end as the dealer tried to sort out the cause >of the problem. So just because a problem/symptom/feature exists since >the date of purchase of the vehicle, it doesn't mean that it doesn't >demand attention or perhaps even fixing or repairing of some sort. >Although I suspect the response to this from Marin- should he choose to >respond to such an inane, unrelated-anectdote-filled and roundabout >criticism of a seemingly hardly assailable logic, i.e., that of >ignoring the clunk in the suspension of a Series Land Rover, would be >that if the Land Rover stalled every time he drove it, he would have >had them fix it, or fixed it himself, and that my bringing that up as >an example was a terrible excuse for a parallell, in fact, more like a >perpendicular, and that seeing as I was only 11 in 1980 which makes me >only 31 now, that I am young and ignorant or something to that effect. >Although now I am putting words in the mouth, or on the screen if you >will, of others which I didn't really set out to do, as much as it may >have seemed so due the apparent confusion over the central point of >Marin's message that I seem to have had, which now that I am aware of >it makes me wonder why I bothered to type this thing in the first >place, or rather, why I continued to type it after realizing the flawed >nature of my argument and its related parental-Pontiac anectodte. >Which, by the way, for those who are curious- and to those I say "Go >outside and get some fresh air because there is no reason on god's >green earth that you should care about this,"- the point where I >relaized the frivolity of my complaint was before I started the very >pointless- as I have pointed out repeatedly- comparison between one of >the sounds my Land Rover's suspension makes and the sound of a bubble >trying to escape from a 2-liter soda bottle. I would be interested to >hear from other owners who have experienced the same sound, the one >from the suspension, not the soda bottle. Although if you'd like to >tlak about the soda bottle sound, or any other sound or really anything >at all then please feel free to do so. As a matter of fact, if you've >read this far and haven't wanted to strangle me, I'd really like to >hear from you. If you do want to strangle me, I assure you it wouldn't >be worth the airfare to get here. Or the half gallon of gas if you're >in my area. Or Metro fare. Or the rubber or other material off the >soles of your (very nice I'm sure) shoes. > >later >daveb > >===== >They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. > >David Foster Wallace > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:42:24 -0400 From: "Jean-Leon Morin" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Cruiser overdrive in Rover (WAS: grim news) Dave's right. The rover T case kicks. It has a great low range, especially the series II, it weighs nothing compared to cast iron cases, and can take a heck of a beating. I know my series II transfer case handles over 280 ft lbs of torque, and it's really compact. I know TeriAnn's little series T case is plugging along nicely behind her 302 V8, and Timm Cooper supposedly pulls long burnouts in his chevy V8 powered series 1 109. There's bound to be some beef in there somewhere. ______________________________________________________ Jean-Leon Morin AKA "Dr. Detroit" 1966 IIA 109 freak 195? II parts bin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:50:46 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: Weird experience TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >Of course I do have one problem with the story that someone told about the >output gear falling off onto the bottom of the transfer case. > That was me. Did I not mention Dana 18 in the original post? That explains why you were asking about a special nut. The 1970 CJ-5 uses a standard nut with nylon locking insert. At least that is what's on it now - I will have to check a manual or inspect the output shaft to see if a separate lock washer can be used. It's possible the shaft is keyed and a previous owner installed the nylon lock nut. If so I will change. Anyway - regardless of CJ-5 or Series - a loose tranny output gear can result in weird tranny problems including jumping out of gear. T14 tranny and Dana 18 tcase - yes the output gear can fall off. It still amazes me to this day that the output gear could fall clean off and into the bottom of the tcase without any damage whatsoever - twice. What are the odds? Imagine if the gear had become tangled with the other revolving tcase gears - damage. Speaking of the Dana 18 tcase - someone asked about alternative overdrives? There is an overdrive available here in the USA from Advanced Adapters called the Saturn. It bolts to the back of the Dana 18 tcase similar to the Series. It is based on the old Warn overdrive that was as popular among the Jeep crowd as the Fairey was to Series owners. This overdrive is rated to 300 ft pounds of torque input and is said to withstand V8 power. Now do the Fairey, Santana, and Toro models use a layshaft? Because the Saturn I believe is planetary. Cost is 1000 dollars. Can it be adapted to the Series - I don't know. Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:03:56 -0700 From: "Lonn & Rhonda" Subject: LRO: who can remember after all of that blathering... I think you need to go back into "lurk mode" DaveB... :>) LonnD - ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaveB" was snipped due to incessant blathering on about nothing in particular. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:15 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:14 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: LRO: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers >Y'all know the one about lab rats being replaced with lawyers? There are more lawyers than lab rats, and there's some things a rat just won't do. We can take this opportunity to pick on pilots, too. Did you know that Airbus and Boeing are working jointly and in secret to develop the next generation of commercial jetliner flightdecks? This highly automated flightdeck will have a crew of just two, a pilot and a dog. The pilot is there to feed the dog. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything. Old aerospace joke, but maybe some of you hadn't heard it before.... ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:37:21 EDT From: BSharp4601@aol.com Subject: LRO: Fuel Sender Question I'm having few problems with the fuel sender on my '63 IIa. It has been converted to negative earth and has a Delco alternator with internal regulator, both many years ago. The original sender never worked since the day I bought the truck several years ago, so a while back and I replaced it with a neg grnd version. OK, it reads backwards, a little confusing when changing from one Series truck to another, but it was working. I recently bought one of the NOS positive grnd senders from Robbers North. When I installed it it would read only up to half full and then down to empty (and yes, I did bend the float arm for a more accurate level reading). It functions and reads in the right direction, but only up to half full. I exchanged this sender for another ... same problem. The neg grnd sender gave me full travel, it just reads backwards (full is empty, etc.). I checked the pos sender and the neg sender on a meter and the neg sender gave readings of almost double the pos sender. Does the conversion to the alternator / regulator have anything to do with this? Any ideas? Bob Sharp Tucson, AZ The slumbering herd on the Rover Ranch: 52 Series I 80" 53 Series I 80" 60 Series II 88" 63 Series IIa 88" 71 Series IIa 109" 96 Discovery Series I "Why is it that every project you complete on a Land Rover results in knowledge and skills you hope you never need to use again?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:39:48 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: LRO: RE: who can remember after all of that blathering... We'll need to save Dave's post for honorary mention at this year's CMF Verbosity Award dinner. Bryan 62 88 70 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Lonn & Rhonda [mailto:hoops@owt.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:04 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: who can remember after all of that blathering... I think you need to go back into "lurk mode" DaveB... :>) LonnD - ----- Original Message ----- From: "DaveB" was snipped due to incessant blathering on about nothing in particular. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:43:00 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Trans output nut tool Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Trans output nut tool >k. And my choice is to keep forgetting to buy the tool so I go with the manual that doesn't require a torque spec, unless I'm doing an overdrive in which case a I borrow the tool from Bill Maloney (remember him?) and keep it for 6 months. What's with this "special tool?" I installed a Fairey overdrive on my SIII back in 1973 or 4, and didn't have or need any special tools at all. I used a basic socket set and a wrench set to remove the rear PTO cover, take the nut off to remove the output gear and install the nut that holds on the overdrive's special input gear. I don't recall anything anywhere about torque settings, nor did I have any trouble removing or installing anything with the tools I had. One-hundred-thousand-plus trouble-free miles later, after I'd let the overdrive run too low on oil too many times, the thing broke (totally my fault). I removed the overdrive and re-installed the original output gear and PTO cover with the basic tools I had in my toolbox while lying underneath the thing in the parking lot. So I'm curious why all of a sudden it's become necessary to have some sort of "special tool" to take the back end off the transmission and install or de-install the output gear? It was a no-brainer in 1973; why has it become something different today? ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:50:00 -0300 From: john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca (John Cranfield) Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers When electronics were becoming common in the guidance sytems of aircraft they where known as "fly by wire" in the US. Unfortunately when translated to British English this became "fly by telegram" :) John and Muddy "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:14 +0200 > From: Paul Oxley > Subject: LRO: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers > > >Y'all know the one about lab rats being replaced with lawyers? > There are more lawyers than lab rats, and there's some things a rat just > won't do. > > We can take this opportunity to pick on pilots, too. Did you know that > Airbus and Boeing are working jointly and in secret to develop the next > generation of commercial jetliner flightdecks? This highly automated > flightdeck will have a crew of just two, a pilot and a dog. The pilot > is there to feed the dog. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries > to touch anything. Old aerospace joke, but maybe some of you hadn't > heard it before.... > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:59:43 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:49:49 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" - - --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: >> Could be the springs banging back and forth in their shackles. My > SIII did this from the day it was new, so I learned to ignore it. >Hang about there...you say what now? Neither of my series trucks does this... (reply longer than even most of mine deleted for brevity :-) ) I said "MY SIII did this from the day it was new"...... not "ALL SIII's did this from the day they were new." Mine did it, I called the west coast factory rep in 1973, told him what was happening, he said "sometimes the springs do that, it's not a problem," so I ignored it, and it was never a problem. I replaced the springs in the mid-1980s when the originals started losing their arch, and the new springs do the same thing. The shackle bolts are tightened properly, everything is just fine, and the springs bang every now and then. As I'm not dealing with the 4wd equivalent of the Space Shuttle here, I decided to ignore the occasional bang since it hasn't caused a lick of trouble in almost three decades. The springs spring, the wheels go round, the steering steers, the brakes brake, so why worry? If you want to spend hours chasing down the occasional noise in a vehicle that's put together with pop rivets and the world's crappiest grade threaded fasteners, have at it. But don't get too frustrated if after all your efforts, the noise is still there. After almost thirty years of driving this thing, I worry a lot more when something STOPS making a noise than I do about something making a noise. Invariably, something that used to make noise and suddenly doesn't has broken or worn out to the point where it needs fixing. Something that didn't used to make noise and now does has simply gotten noisy. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:14:38 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Trans output nut tool For an opposite experience. Truck came with a rear power take off. Truck would not stay in 3rd gear. As soon as you backed off the throttle it would pop out. Took off the Power take off and found the 'special nut' to be finger tight. Installed the O/D but could find nothing except some mention that no torque necessary on nut. So I reinstalled it finger tight. Still had the same problem with popping out of gear. What was really interesting that holding shifter in 3rd O/D on deceleration resulted in violent vibration. When I say violent, I mean violent, eyes out of focus, fillings falling out, bucking, trying to tear itself out of the truck, vibration. Tightened up the nut a bit and vibration was dramatically lessened though it would still pop out of gear. Never put a great deal of torque on the nut as its no fun to get at without the the special socket. Pulled transmission long before this list and finding out you need to torque the nut to 100 foot pounds. Trans will be going in the 88 so will have an opportunity to see if tightening the 'special nut' to proper torque cures the problem. BTW, Transmission only had 30,000 miles on it. Aloha Peter Ogilvie Kona Coffee Rover 1970 88 soft top, 'huli' Mine since '84 but recovering from exposure of the dark side. 1966 109 pickup 'slime' In my garage since '90, finally up and running 12/00. 1965 88 parts car, slowly sinking into the lava. 196? 88 hard top, possibly 'phoenix' if it rises, it will certainly be from ashes or at least a pile of rust >From: "Faure, Marin" >What's with this "special tool?" I installed a Fairey overdrive on my >SIII back in 1973 or 4, and didn't have or need any special tools at all. >I used a basic socket set and a wrench set to remove the rear PTO cover, >take the nut off to remove the output gear and install the nut that holds >on the overdrive's special input gear. I don't recall anything anywhere >about torque settings, nor did I have any trouble removing or installing >anything with the tools I had. One-hundred-thousand-plus trouble-free >miles later, after I'd let the overdrive run too low on oil too many times, >the thing broke (totally my fault). I removed the overdrive and >re-installed >the original output gear and PTO cover with the basic tools I had in my >toolbox while lying underneath the thing in the parking lot. So I'm >curious >why all of a sudden it's become necessary to have some sort of "special >tool" to take the back end off the transmission and install or de-install >the output gear? It was a no-brainer in 1973; why has it become something >different today? >___________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: DaveB Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" - --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > Something that didn't used to make noise and now does has > simply > gotten noisy. Kind of does a good job of describing my return to the list. dismproved silence is better than no silence at all dave ===== They can kill you, but the legalities of eating you are quite a bit dicier. David Foster Wallace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:47:54 -0600 From: "Tim Czajka" Subject: LRO: Re: People's Republic.... Alan Richer wrote: >Should introduce her to the Darwin fish I have on mine..... > I have been wondering about this for some time. Here in Colorado there are many vehicles with these fish type emblems. I understand that the plain fish emblems are religious in nature. The owners are indicating their Christian faith. But what about these Darwin fish emblems? What are they symbolic of and what are the owners of these emblems trying to say? Since they appear to be a play on the plain fish - are these Darwin fish supposed to be symbolic of atheism? Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:25:31 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: S'truth.... about ten years ago I wrote an article explaining exactly why a bull-barred, dirty, scratched Land Rover, with a roll cage even, was the ideal (UK) city commuting vehicle. I worked in Manchester at the time - even taxi-cabs and buses gave way! (and those of you who've driven in UK cities know what THAT means) Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: A. P. "Sandy" Grice To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: LRO: S'truth.... > SJH wrote: > > >The other solution lies in the junker look, or > >what I refer to as the railroad tie bumper effect: If you drive a junker > >or have railroad ties bolted on for bumpers, just merge. They'll get out > >of your way. > > Absolute truth. Good friend from college days (30 years ago) had a > three-door (one was welded shut) '55 Chevy - a real lead barge - that his > brother paid all of $250 for years before. My friend added a 4 X 12" plank > to the front bumper, as he was too, ummm, *thrifty* to even think about > junk yard prices for a used bumper. Furthermore, it was painted with > whatever spray cans were left around the physics dept. at school - > variations on black, mostly. We *never* had a problem merging. "Just > chose the most expensive vehicle and pull out..." was his strategy. Worked > like a champ.... > > *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----* > | | > | A. P. ("Sandy") Grice | > | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd. | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | > |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 | > | www.roav.org | > | (original owner) (pre-production) | > *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----* > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:01:11 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: grim news... the state of the market in overdrives these days you'd have a market in the UK - if the price was right! Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: Re: LRO: RE: grim news... > In a message dated 4/16/01 12:22:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Gbrovers@aol.com writes: > > > > . > > I also have a line on a overdrive that comes out of Australia for the > > Land Cruiser. I am going to inquire with the company about adapting it to > > the > > Rover. Shouldn't be to hard considering they are basicly the same design. > > Best I can do for the time being. > > > > > > Bill, > > If you could swing that, I'd be interested (as long as there are spares for > it). I love my Santana, but I use it as 5th/4 OD almost exclusively, > because, it's gotta last (no spares AFAIK) > > Nate > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:11:28 -0700 From: "Hoult, Bryan" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: People's Republic.... I don't have a fish of any variety as I am under the impression that acts speak clearly and symbolism is propaganda. I believe, however, that the Darwin symbol indicates that the individual believes survival of the fittest is a better explaination for human existence than devine creation. I saw a deviant twist on the symbols once that I thought quite humorous. It was a Darwin fish mounting a Jesus fish. I'm pretty sure the fellow with that displayed on the back of his car might have been an atheist. Bryan 62 88 71 109 "Genie" - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Czajka [mailto:timczajka@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 1:48 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: LRO: Re: People's Republic.... Alan Richer wrote: >Should introduce her to the Darwin fish I have on mine..... > I have been wondering about this for some time. Here in Colorado there are many vehicles with these fish type emblems. I understand that the plain fish emblems are religious in nature. The owners are indicating their Christian faith. But what about these Darwin fish emblems? What are they symbolic of and what are the owners of these emblems trying to say? Since they appear to be a play on the plain fish - are these Darwin fish supposed to be symbolic of atheism? Tim Czajka 1972 Series III 88 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:22:23 +0100 From: "John Bridgett" Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers Years ago we were evaluating the accuracy of a language translation software, we wern't experts in the foreign language so we simply fed the result back into itself to see if we got the original text back. There were quite a few anomolies, the one I can remember was "Out of sight, out of mind" came back as "blind madness". - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On Behalf Of John Cranfield Sent: 17 April 2001 20:50 To: lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers When electronics were becoming common in the guidance sytems of aircraft they where known as "fly by wire" in the US. Unfortunately when translated to British English this became "fly by telegram" :) John and Muddy "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:14 +0200 > From: Paul Oxley > Subject: LRO: Was: ...tedium, now: disclaimers > > >Y'all know the one about lab rats being replaced with lawyers? > There are more lawyers than lab rats, and there's some things a rat just > won't do. > > We can take this opportunity to pick on pilots, too. Did you know that > Airbus and Boeing are working jointly and in secret to develop the next > generation of commercial jetliner flightdecks? This highly automated > flightdeck will have a crew of just two, a pilot and a dog. The pilot > is there to feed the dog. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he tries > to touch anything. Old aerospace joke, but maybe some of you hadn't > heard it before.... > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:53:34 +0100 From: Elwyn York Subject: LRO: ysc 248r - White 101 Ambulance Anyone know who this is? Sighted in Glen Eagles, Scotland! Cheers Elwyn York ICQ: 17087824 S3 Lightweight. West Midlands http://ltwt.gq.nu/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:12:37 +0100 From: Subject: LRO: Re: metal fuel line question- copper Why not just plumb the return pipe in all the time ? With a restricter in the return, so it only lets a tiny amount of petrol return to the tank all the time. This will end your vapour lock by A/ allowing any vapour bubble to escape B/ the hot fuel is always being replaced by cool fuel from the tank, whether the engine is idleing or cruising flat out down the motorway at 45mph. This is how many more modern systems are arranged. Cheers, Chaz http://freespace.virgin.net/chaz.mackenzie/home.htm - -----Original Message----- From: SJH To: lro@works.team.net Date: Monday 16 April 11:05 Subject: LRO: metal fuel line question- copper >Is there a reason to avoid using copper for fuel line assuming it can be >adequately supported (given its softness)? > >I was mulling this over the other day when thinking of ways to make fuel >delivery more efficient in my 109SW, which presently has a rubber line. > >I've plumbed in a fuel return line and I keep it closed off most of the >time to avoid fuel starvation issues, and when starting a hot engine, >I'll open this line in the event of a v-lock, in order to clear it. But >I'd like to avoid vapor lock altogether and have a theory that the less >resitance the pump is meeting, the better. Thus, the metal line, which I >think was original (have to admit I've not checked), and which I think >will be smoother inside and allow more efficient flow of fuel. > >If it locks this summer, I may try an electric pump - as I've tried >everything else! > >Simon - wants to avoid vapor lock this summer at all costs short of an >electric pump - Harding > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:41:18 -0400 From: "Neal P. Dion" Subject: LRO: 6.5 Diesel Hi - Not a lot of LR content here, but I need some help and I've seen this engine mentioned many times in the past on this list. I have a Chevy 3500HD one ton with the 6.5 turbo engine in it. This truck is a key part of my business and this past Monday it finally gave up the ghost. About 190,000 miles and I've worked it hard, no major problems till now and no complaints. Have not dropped the pan yet, but I suspect that a piston will fall on my head when I do - engine is a write off. My question - does anyone know of a source for this engine, either remanufactured or used. GM gave me an estimate of just under $10K for the job ( $7400 for just the long block) and that's assuming that the existing injection system and turbo are reusable. The truck is in good shape, but it's a 93 and it's tough to justify that kind of expenditure. Any web sites that I should check? I'm located in New Hampshire. Thanks for the help. LR Content - I started the Ser. 3 this past weekend. Started right up (more or less!), need to do the front brakes, get it inspected and I'm on the road for another season. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:51:25 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: 6.2 diesels > You guys need to contact Brian Cotton (brian@landyonline.co.za I think), > he has a really nifty GMC 6.2 diesel in a rangie. > > Regards > > Paul Oxley > AfricanAdrenalin.com Samuri in the UK has been doing them for years. I have a couple of friends that are heavy into DRMO auctions and have already told me to just let them know when I nned the vehicle. Going price on the vehicle from the auction is $500. They usually have under 50k miles on em. A year ago a friend in VA picked one up with only 13k miles. Some people would caution against buying avehicle that has been driving hard by an 18yo who knows he doesn't have to fix what's broken, but my experiance has always been that the Army does a darn good job maintaining it's vehicles. If something breaks, it get replaced, not repaired. Scheduled maintenance is done on a routine basis. Since I would be taking all the bit's out of the doner for the swap I would go ahead and have everything rebuilt, but I am so far ahead in the cost department no biggy. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:09:42 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" > --- "Faure, Marin" wrote: > > Something that didn't used to make noise and now does has > > simply > > gotten noisy. > > Kind of does a good job of describing my return to the list. > ohhh, and here we thought they had finally decided to parole you ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:12:38 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Re: People's Republic.... > I saw a deviant twist on the symbols once that I thought quite humorous. It > was a Darwin fish mounting a Jesus fish. I'm pretty sure the fellow with > that displayed on the back of his car might have been an atheist. > Almost as bad as the 'Calvin wizzing on the Fish' combo I have seen on one of the rice racer mobiles here. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 00:38:44 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" >>Hang about there...you say what now? Neither of my series trucks does >>this. Although there is an interesting squeaking sound that ...blah, blah, blah... >>area. Or Metro fare. Or the rubber or other material off the >>soles of your (very nice I'm sure) shoes. >> >>later >>daveb Woah!! I want some of what he's having. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:10:52 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Steering "clunk" On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:59:43 -0700 "Faure, Marin" writes: If you want to spend hours chasing down the occasional noise in a vehicle that's put together with pop rivets and the world's crappiest grade threaded fasteners, have at it. Hear hear! BTW, I was just beginning to think you were an OK human til you told all of us about your evil prank on the guy with the magnets. bill ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #342 **********************************************