From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Wed Apr 11 20:29:49 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3C0TnN16358 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:29:49 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3BNPdx04201 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3BNPd804198 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06916 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3BMibR09826 for lro-digest-gone; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:44:37 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:44:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200104112244.f3BMibR09826@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #328 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 328 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:54:09 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt valve? - -- Jim Hall 1966 88" Elephant Chaser http://www.users.qwest.net/~jimfoo "You know, I never really damaged my Rover 'till I started wheeling with Jim." Mitch Stockdale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:12:39 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: Re LRO: crap crap crap >Yes, my fluke measures duty, dwell, etc. Just dont know how to hook it up. >Will check the green manual again, but don't remember seeing it there Minuets after I sent that e-mail I realized that that might be what you were asking. So meters ground lead (black probably) to ground, the other lead to the negative side of coil. Hope I got the right question this time. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:33:08 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Jim Hall wrote: :So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires :through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt :valve? That's what mine did when I burnt a valve. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:30:26 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time > So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires > through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt > valve? > -- > Jim Hall Timing chain jumped? Pete ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:31:06 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: Re: Re LRO: crap crap crap Sounds greta. I will give that a try. Pete > Minuets after I sent that e-mail I realized that that might be what you > were asking. So meters ground lead (black probably) to ground, the other > lead to the negative side of coil. Hope I got the right question this > time. > > Chris > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:03:27 -0600 From: "Coates, Clinton" Subject: LRO: 240D to LR adapter Wheeee! I took my drawings for the 240D to LR adapter plate down to the machine shop. This time I managed to talk to the proprietor, Horst, instead of the young buck I talked to last time. He liked the drawings, but when I told him about my alternate plan to just have a complete new flywheel cover made instead, he really perked up. This is the more elegant solution that I had abandoned, as people who I thought knew, believed it would cost to much to hog out a 13" round by 1.5" deep hole from a billet. "Ja, I tink it vill cost about ze same, but it vill be much better, no extra play in ze toleranzes and a much nicer end result, hei?" Next time, I will start by talking to the expert first, not half way through the project... Clinton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:57:58 -0700 From: "Lonn & Rhonda" Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant Marin said: > I notice some of you have Range Rovers in addition to > your Series. One of the really annoying things about > the Range Rover, at least the US-spec classic version, > is that there is no radiator drain as there is on a Series. >If left unchanged for a few years, old > coolant will actually start to dissolve the block from the > inside (so I was told by the factory manager at Land Rover's > Solihull plant in the early '90s). You know, it's funny that I changed ALL the fluids in my new RR the first week I had it, but never even thought about the coolant. I just flushed the SAAB, because the factory is adamant about changing it every two years and using only SAAB anti-freeze. Maybe my RR will like SAAB anti-freeze? Seems that any coolant designed for aluminum blocked engines should work, but my SAAB tech is insistent on using only genuine SAAB anti-freeze. Wonder why? And what's the deal with the eco-anti-freeze that won't destroy Fido's liver? Anybody have any experience with it? Lonn '67 109 beast '90 RR County and obviously, a SAAB... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:00:29 -0700 From: "Lonn & Rhonda" Subject: LRO: Re: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time Check timing, and for vacuum leaks as well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:09:48 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant (Perrone Ford stated that he uses environmentally friendly coolant in his Range Rover now.) As it was explained to me, an environmentally- friendly coolant like Sierra does not have the same degree of corrosion-inhibiting qualities as the nasty stuff like Prestone, etc. The three diesels in our trawler had Sierra as their coolant when we bought the boat in California. When we got it to Bellingham, WA, I had a very reputable engine shop go over all three engines for a complete service. One of the first things they said was, the Sierra's got to go. The reason given was that it has pretty much no corrosion combatant properties. The diesel shop recommended changing to a coolant marketed under the Caterpillar name (Cat doesn't make it, of course), which is formulated specially for marine engines, with an even higher corrosion inhibiting factor that "normal " coolant. We had them make the switch, but in the discussion, they described what they'd come across in marine engines that had used Sierra or Sierra-type coolant for a period of time, and they said the end result wasn't pretty and was pretty expensive to fix, and in some extreme cases, ruined the engine. Given the aluminum nature of the Rover V-8, I would be leery of using a coolant type that does not provide a high degree of corrosion protection. There may be anti-freezes on the market that are both environmentally friendly and do a good job of corrosion protection. But I was certainly given the impression by people I figure should know that the two are mutually exclusive. I'm not implying that the Rover V-8 should be fed a coolant that's been formulated for the marine environment, which admittedly is tougher in terms of corrosion than the automotive environment. But everything I've been told (so far) seems to suggest that while the environmentally friendly coolants are certainly better for the environment, they are not better for an engine. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of coolant properties can reinforce or refute my understanding. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:27:24 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant You absolutely CANNOT use "any fluid suitable for aluminum blocked engines" in your Land Rover. They do NOT have the necessary ingredients to make a healthy brass radiator in a Land Rover. You need to keep using the normal stuff. As for the enviro-friendly stuff.. I totally recommend it. I did about 2 weeks research on it last year, talking to everyone I could find who would really know about the stuff, and it seems it really is good stuff. I use Sierra personally, and it performs as well as better than the Prestone I had been using. I now worry less about not being able to catch all the coolant when I drain my truck. I have a lovely 2 year old dog to protect, and my GF works for a vet.. so she is DAMN sensitive about this stuff. SAAB's antifreeze in no different than anything else. Its either Propylene Glycol (standard stuff) Dexcool, or the enviro stuff. Have a look at the label and figure out what's in it. - -P > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On > Behalf Of Lonn & Rhonda > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:58 PM > To: lro@Works.Team.Net > Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant > You know, it's funny that I changed ALL the fluids in my new RR the > first week I had it, but never even thought about the coolant. I just > flushed the SAAB, because the factory is adamant about changing it > every two years and using only SAAB anti-freeze. Maybe my RR will > like SAAB anti-freeze? Seems that any coolant designed for aluminum > blocked engines should work, but my SAAB tech is insistent on using > only genuine SAAB anti-freeze. Wonder why? > > And what's the deal with the eco-anti-freeze that won't destroy Fido's > liver? Anybody have any experience with it? > > Lonn > '67 109 beast > '90 RR County > and obviously, a SAAB... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:31:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Lonn & Rhonda wrote: :first week I had it, but never even thought about the coolant. I just :flushed the SAAB, because the factory is adamant about changing it :every two years and using only SAAB anti-freeze. Maybe my RR will :like SAAB anti-freeze? Seems that any coolant designed for aluminum :blocked engines should work, but my SAAB tech is insistent on using :only genuine SAAB anti-freeze. Wonder why? Phosphate corrosion. I'm pretty sure Saab's anti-freeze is made by BASF (who make lots of OEM anti-freeze). Their trade name is "Zerex". The Zerex Extreme product is probably the very same stuff as the Saab dealer sells you. There are concerns about mixing these sorts of coolants, so you have to completely flush the system. The Zerex product has been approved by BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, VW, and others. It's probably worth checking to see if Saab is on the list (BASF numbers: BASF Customer Service: 1-800-445-4134 BASF Technical Service: 1-800-521-9100) : :And what's the deal with the eco-anti-freeze that won't destroy Fido's :liver? Anybody have any experience with it? Propylene glycol based (Propylene glycol is a food additive of some sort...). Performs very much like traditional ethylene glycol based anti-freezes. If it's made with correct bunch of additives (corrosion inhibitors, things like that) it should work just fine. Oh, and just because it's made with propylene glycol doesn't mean you should dump it down the drain! There are nasty things in used antifreeze, and all anti-freeze should be properly disposed of -- recycled. David - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:41:13 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Faure, Marin wrote: :corrosion protection. There may be anti-freezes on the market :that are both environmentally friendly and do a good job of :corrosion protection. But I was certainly given the impression :by people I figure should know that the two are mutually exclusive. That's *ENTIRELY UNTRUE*. Ethylene glycol, the stuff in normal anti-freeze, is remarkably corrosive for something that gets put into engines. All commercial anti-freezes have had anti-corrosion additives for more or less forever. They wear out, which is why anti-freeze is supposed to be replaced. It may well be the case that there are no propylene glycol anti-freezes that have the corrosion protection of whatever was put in your boat; I'm not in a position to say. If that's the case, it's based on economic or marketing factors, and not on any technical reason. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong, wrongity wrong. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:43:12 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Perrone Ford wrote: :SAAB's antifreeze in no different than anything else. Its either Propylene :Glycol (standard stuff) Dexcool, or the enviro stuff. Have a look at the :label and figure out what's in it. : It's not plain ole Prestone. There's more to anti-freeze than that these days. There are surely commercial anti-freezes that are equivelant. See my other anti-freeze ra^H^Hposts. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:05:00 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: RE: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant I didn't mean to imply that it was prestone. Sorry for any confusion. My point was that I am SURE there are other brands that are perfectly suitable for use in that vehicle. Its a GM for God's sake! - -P > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On > Behalf Of David Scheidt > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 11:43 PM > To: lro@Works.Team.Net > Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant > > > On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Perrone Ford wrote: > > :SAAB's antifreeze in no different than anything else. Its > either Propylene > :Glycol (standard stuff) Dexcool, or the enviro stuff. Have a look at the > :label and figure out what's in it. > : > > It's not plain ole Prestone. There's more to anti-freeze than that these > days. There are surely commercial anti-freezes that are equivelant. See > my other anti-freeze ra^H^Hposts. > > David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:06:24 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I also started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and don't hesitate recommending this product to anyone. Have a look at these few pages as they will shed some light on this issue: http://www.pecuniary.com/synthetics/antifreeze.html http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/coolant.htm http://autos.yahoo.com/repair/results/ques012.html - -P > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On > Behalf Of Faure, Marin > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 11:10 PM > To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' > Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant > > > (Perrone Ford stated that he uses environmentally > friendly coolant in his Range Rover now.) > > As it was explained to me, an environmentally- > friendly coolant like Sierra does not have the same > degree of corrosion-inhibiting qualities as the > nasty stuff like Prestone, etc. The three diesels in > our trawler had Sierra as their coolant when we > bought the boat in California. When we got it > to Bellingham, WA, I had a very reputable engine > shop go over all three engines for a complete service. > One of the first things they said was, the Sierra's got > to go. The reason given was that it has pretty much > no corrosion combatant properties. The diesel > shop recommended changing to a coolant marketed > under the Caterpillar name (Cat doesn't make it, of course), > which is formulated specially for marine engines, with an > even higher corrosion inhibiting factor that "normal " > coolant. We had them make the switch, but in the discussion, > they described what they'd come across in marine engines that > had used Sierra or Sierra-type coolant for a period of time, and > they said the end result wasn't pretty and was pretty expensive to > fix, and in some extreme cases, ruined the engine. > > Given the aluminum nature of the Rover V-8, I would be leery > of using a coolant type that does not provide a high degree of > corrosion protection. There may be anti-freezes on the market > that are both environmentally friendly and do a good job of > corrosion protection. But I was certainly given the impression > by people I figure should know that the two are mutually exclusive. > I'm not implying that the Rover V-8 should be fed a coolant that's > been formulated for the marine environment, which admittedly is > tougher in terms of corrosion than the automotive environment. > But everything I've been told (so far) seems to suggest that while > the environmentally friendly coolants are certainly better for the > environment, they are not better for an engine. > > Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of coolant > properties can reinforce or refute my understanding. > ___________________________ > C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:08:27 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: The great shock debate I took the shocks off my Rover when I had the old springs and there was absolutely NO noticable difference. The Red Zit is now riding on parabolics and lovin' it. Still need front shocks though. Ray Wood at Wise Owl sells Explorer Pro Comp RS9000 shocks for a great price (they were on sale for $39 CDN a while ago). That's what I'm getting once I gather the neccessary coin. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:14:03 -0400 From: Bill Caloccia Subject: LRO: outage there is some network work happening which may affect server availability for a couple hours. shouldn't be the end of the world. -B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:00:16 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: LRO: Re: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard No Marin, you bore me. - -----Original Message----- From: Faure, Marin To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' Cc: 'macka.andy@clear.net.nz' Date: Wednesday, 11 April 2001 04:27 Subject: LRO: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:52:59 +1200 >From: "Macka" >Subject: LRO: Re: Re: The Land-Rover Bodied Bastard > >>Yawn..... Spoken like a true old coozer with a gigantic chip on his shoulder..... >>I suppose you walked barefoot to school thru a snow covered minefield as >well? > >If your life's boring don't come whining to me. As to walking barefoot >through the snow to school, that was my parents, not me. >___________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:02:17 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: LRO: Re: Re: What is LR ownership about Gee , you really must have seen it all with your excellent and informative account of the North Island of NZ.....makes a difference from your usual long winded and tiresome explanations of other subjects.... Macka NZ - -----Original Message----- From: Faure, Marin To: 'Land Rover Mail Group' Cc: 'macka.andy@clear.net.nz' Date: Wednesday, 11 April 2001 04:35 Subject: LRO: Re: What is LR ownership about >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:04:10 +1200 >From: "Macka" >Subject: LRO: Re: What is LR ownership about (was LR-bodied bastard) > >>Jeeez, Marin, you actually found something in ol NZ that you liked while you >were down in our country...... > >That was about the only thing, though. No, wait, the maritime museum in Auckland >was terrific. > >>I am saddened that it was tarnished with the moronic idiotic youths you met >tho.... > >It was no worse than most of the other places we've been. > >>Guess now you'll never come back .... what a tragedy!! > >I doubt it. We've got some filming assignments in Australia >over the next couple of years, and from everyone I've talked to >who's been there, that's the really cool place to visit. New Zealand >wasn't any different than being here in the northwest. You take fourteen >hours worth of airplane rides to end up in the same kind of place you left. >Everyone on my crew thought Auckland was no different from Seattle, only >about 30 years back in time (which, given the current condition of Seattle >is a really good thing for you). We drove all over the north island, and it >was just like the Pacific Northwest only with tree ferns and sheep. Nice, >but nothing new. >___________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:05:05 +1200 From: "Macka" Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Marin Faure excellent concept....now in place on my machine. Thankyou. Macka NZLRO Moderator Andrew "Macka" MacGowan 1952 Series I 80" ex NZ Army 1971 Series IIA 88" "Skippy" Ex NZ Army 1972 Series IIA 109 Ex NZ Red Cross 1974 Series III 109 Truck Cab Flat Deck - -----Original Message----- From: cde3 To: Land Rover Mail Group Date: Wednesday, 11 April 2001 01:40 Subject: LRO: RE: Marin Faure >If you are bored (as I am) or offended by Marin Faure's e-mails, do what I >do. Have all of them directly deposited into their own folder which goes >directly into the recycle bin. I occasionally have to do this on the >Porsche List (rarely on the Triumphs List) when the person's rantings >outweigh whatever helpful e-mails (if any)they may contribute. The longer >you are a member of these types of e-mail lists, the more you will realize >that this is a common occurrence and it's best just to ignore them, and send >their e-mails directly to the recycle bin. >Don Emery > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:16:32 EDT From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO: The great shock debate - --part1_53.4d194ae.280542b0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/01 5:56:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, richw@nwlink.com writes: > . Anything > else? > > If you're serious, I'd consider adding a rear sway bar with disconnects. I had mine on twop wheels at 65 on the freeway, and think a sway bar might have helped. I had the lighter stock springs. Zack - --part1_53.4d194ae.280542b0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/10/01 5:56:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, richw@nwlink.com
writes:


.  Anything
else?



If you're serious, I'd consider adding a rear sway bar with disconnects. I
had mine on twop wheels at 65 on the freeway, and think a sway bar might have
helped. I had the lighter stock springs.

Zack - --part1_53.4d194ae.280542b0_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:35 +0200 From: Paul Oxley Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Series Fuel tanks Hope Peter wrote: > Yes I am kidding, sheesh you PETA folks should change yer name to PITA. Heh, heh, heh! Mainstreet Nairobi, yesterday, three PETA 'world citizens' (from guess which state, in guess which country) lock themselves inside a chicken coop to protest against Kenyans consuming meat/chickens (BTW, estimates are that 4.4 million Kenyans are at risk of starving at the moment). A bystander observing this shakes his head and says "Chickens are not an endangered species. I don't see the sense of it. Tonight I'm leaving here and I'm going for a chicken." Go figger... Regards Paul Oxley AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:21:04 +0100 From: "John Bridgett" Subject: LRO: RE: Marin Faure Hey come on guys, at least he takes the time and trouble to rant and it does at least create some discussion. Give the guy break and I'm sure he'll quieten down a little perhaps but not too much. Regards - John - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@Works.Team.Net [mailto:owner-lro@Works.Team.Net]On Behalf Of Macka Sent: 11 April 2001 06:05 To: lro@Works.Team.Net Subject: LRO: Re: RE: Marin Faure excellent concept....now in place on my machine. Thankyou. Macka NZLRO Moderator Andrew "Macka" MacGowan 1952 Series I 80" ex NZ Army 1971 Series IIA 88" "Skippy" Ex NZ Army 1972 Series IIA 109 Ex NZ Red Cross 1974 Series III 109 Truck Cab Flat Deck - -----Original Message----- From: cde3 To: Land Rover Mail Group Date: Wednesday, 11 April 2001 01:40 Subject: LRO: RE: Marin Faure >If you are bored (as I am) or offended by Marin Faure's e-mails, do what I >do. Have all of them directly deposited into their own folder which goes >directly into the recycle bin. I occasionally have to do this on the >Porsche List (rarely on the Triumphs List) when the person's rantings >outweigh whatever helpful e-mails (if any)they may contribute. The longer >you are a member of these types of e-mail lists, the more you will realize >that this is a common occurrence and it's best just to ignore them, and send >their e-mails directly to the recycle bin. >Don Emery > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:46:43 +0100 From: "Steve Mace" Subject: RE: LRO: Land rover bodied tedium So.... the fact that you (in this example) accidentally send an email to the wrong address means that I'm several dollars out of pocket :-( Does this sort of disclaimer actually have any legal bearing at all if it means that the recipient must pay for your (in this example) mistakes? If someone sends you a postal letter, which has your address on the front but it's actually intended for someone else do you legally have to a) phone up the sender and then b) burn the letter? I think not! Also... does it have any cross-border legality e.g. US to UK? In fact, presumably the LRO list server has already broken the law (if it is illegal of course - debatable) by duplicating the message several hundred times and then sending it on. Just curious... Just asking questions.... Just going to put the kettle on.. :-) On 10 Apr 2001, at 9:09, SJH wrote: > No. Steve 1972 SIII LtWt Green 1993 D90 Red - ------------------------------------- Name: Dr Steve Mace E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk www: http://www.solwise.co.uk Tel: 0845 458 4558 (local rate) Fax: 0845 458 4559 Intl. Fax. +44 1482 621877 - ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:21:21 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: RE: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant http://www.imcool.com/articles/anitfreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htm Interesting article on this subject... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:46:40 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix And figuring out I don't have any timing marks! (unless they're way off on the flywheel.) Replacement flywheel, maybe? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:55:58 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time Stuck valve - could be. Head gasket? Hmmmmm.... SOunds to me like a compression check is highly in order, then have a look at your options after that. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:05:25 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Coolant ph, was Changing RR coolant I don't know if LR specifies the ph for coolant, but other mfg's do, Saab, MB and others. MB recommends only use of MB Anti-Freeze because when mixed according to directions, it has the proper ph (acidity-alkalinity range for you chemistry-challenged LROs)to preserve the engine block, radiator and other metal parts that contact the coolant. Any of you have a pool or hot tub? If so, then you know the reasons why ph is checked regularly...to preserve and protect the metal parts in the system. Try using your pool test kit or hot tub test strips to test the ph of your coolant, it might surprise you. Generally speaking, you can use the pool/hot tub ph recommendations on your test kit to approximate what your coolant should measure. Anybody know if LR specifies ph for the alum. V8, or other engines? JT/ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:44:12 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: DC 3's >The set on the DC-3 in New England OK, I missed this - what DC3 on floats WHERE in New England? ROAD TRIP......8*) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:51:04 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: Pertronix And figuring out I don't have any timing marks! (unless they're way off on the flywheel.) Replacement flywheel, maybe? ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:50:51 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: relay knock found? I never disturbed the lower retainer ring when I installed the new relay. Joe, get the ring on there - that will solve the problem. The inner diameter of the ring is a snug (almost driven) fit to the relay and is there to prevent the problem you're describing. If you don't have the ring, someone here may have one or there's always the other parts places. Don't shim anything till you've gotten the ring on - any shims you put in will likely over the fullness of time turn to rust...and then it's back again. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:44:24 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time Stuck valve - could be. Head gasket? Hmmmmm.... SOunds to me like a compression check is highly in order, then have a look at your options after that. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:59 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: DC 3's >The set on the DC-3 in New England OK, I missed this - what DC3 on floats WHERE in New England? ROAD TRIP......8*) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:53:13 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: relay knock found? I never disturbed the lower retainer ring when I installed the new relay. Joe, get the ring on there - that will solve the problem. The inner diameter of the ring is a snug (almost driven) fit to the relay and is there to prevent the problem you're describing. If you don't have the ring, someone here may have one or there's always the other parts places. Don't shim anything till you've gotten the ring on - any shims you put in will likely over the fullness of time turn to rust...and then it's back again. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 01 07:06:53 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: 240D to LR adapter >I took my drawings for the 240D to LR adapter plate down to the machine >shop. Or as an alternative I believe there is a commercially available adaptor in Europe. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 01 06:57:19 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Hi-lift & Tailgates >Or you can just use the old dust boots off your discarded wheel >cylinders...which also make GREAT anti-rattle bumbers when installed on the >anti-luce latches of your tailgate. Any reason why you can not use a genuine Land Rover tailboard buffer part number 332146 or 330419 (two types) as the Land Rover Gods ah engineers intended? I put a new set on my Land Rover Hybrid a couple years back. As I recall they were inexpensive. And they DO work. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 01 07:41:15 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: RE: The great shock debate > Forget the woodheads. If for no other reason than they need to be >replaced about ever 40-50k miles I disagree. My Woodhead shocks have consistently lasted much much longer. > I've ridden on parabolic and stock springs. If you ride without heavy >loads most of the time, the parabolic are FAR superior. But then the vehicle would no longer be a Land Rover. It would be a Land Rover hybrid. Seriously parabolics will add side lean on corners and make the Rover's centre of gravity more side to side dynamic on bumps. There is a price for better shock absorption on tarmac and maintained roads. I believe that a high density plastic sheet between leaf springs can smooth out the ride while not adding appreciably to dynamic instability on corners and bumps. I remain unconvenced that putting Santana springs under a Land Rover allows the Land Rover to handle extreme off road situations any better. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 01 08:16:20 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: The great shock debate >Springs: I understand my 2 options are parabolic or stock and I am going >with stock. If anyone has any insight or comments here I'm all ears. I stayed with Rover leaf springs in my 1960 109 as well. However I did add thin sheets of plastic between the longer leaves to reduce friction and allow the suspension to work better. THis did help a great deal. > >Shocks: Gas or hydraulic? The Woodhead (Genuine LR) hydraulic shocks work >very well on heavier Jaguars (my only point of reference) and they seem to >be of good quality. Gas shocks (most speak of Old Man Emu shocks) seem to >be very popular as well. I followed the advice of the Land Rover engineers and stayed with the Woodhead shocks for the last 23 years. They have worked just fine for my 109. >So anyone who has used some of this stuff please chime in - and is there >anything else I need to consider when replacing the suspension? I was told >I need to upgrade to IIa shackles and replace the frame bushings. Anything >else? I finally went to Old Man EMU soft poly bushings a couple years ago. The idea, at least for me, is that poly bushings are a LOT easier to replace in the future. The rubber bushings do a better job of absorning the shocks than poly bushings do. I went to the soft ones as a compromise. GO with the IIA shackles, move your steering arms on the swivel balls down to the IIA position while you are under the rig. You will need new 'U' bolts. DO NOT FORGET the factory says to retorque them every 12K miles. There are some cheap poor strength 'U' bolts in the LR aftermarket. Either get US "u" bolts or genuine ones. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 01 06:46:26 -0700 From: TeriAnn Wakeman Subject: Re: LRO: Re: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time > >> So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires >> through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt >> valve? >Timing chain jumped? or something less drastic like slipped points or problem with the distributor. Oh hail to the 2.25L Land Rover distributor and the Land Rover engineers. TeriAnn Wakeman Marigold Ltd. Santa Cruz, California Web design, site updating, testing webmaster@overlander.net search engine optimization, graphics and more http://www.overlander.net/Marigold/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:26:20 -0400 From: "Tackley, John" Subject: LRO: RE: Galvanizing Bulkheads Todd commented: "Don't do it!" Gosh, Todd, guess I was very lucky when I did my bulkhead. I used Industrial Galvanizing in Petersburg, Va, who claim to be the largest facility in the east, and I believe their claim. Their principal business seemed to be dipping those huge high voltage transmission towers, (some of which are so large at the base that I could walk inside of them!). They did cause some repairable damage by dropping another large item (one of those tower sections)into the vat on top of my BH, and they completely lost some small items(which they gladly paid RN prices to replace), but with a zinc vat 90' long(filled with zinc heated to 450 degrees F), that was understandable. They ground off resulting and inevitable slag and drips as part of their QC process. One of my new gas tanks also came back with a fist sized lump of zinc inside...they re-dipped several times trying to melt and remove it to no avail. I'll have to plasma-cut & weld-shut a hole to get it out...(but let me tell you, that tank has so much zinc coating it that it will probably 'never' rust!). They did not charge me for that tank. They were fair, responsible and did what they could to accomodate my unusual needs (said they had never been asked to dip a vehicle frame, for instance, but they took time to examine it carefully for proper zinc access and drainage holes to interior surfaces and decided the best orientation for dipping it. The frame was literally a thing of beauty when I picked it up. So experiences vary... Ahhh well, opinions...like armpits and navels, everybody has one. Take them for what they're worth... JT/ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:50:26 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: Re: When is a person a person? (was shipfitters) Marin writes: . If they get a mechanical heart or a conversion to a > baboon heart, they are no longer a person, but a hybrid based on a > person. As such, their value to people-collectors will be very low, > and they probably won't even be allowed to enter concours events > for people. Someone looking to buy a person won't even consider > them as an example of the type. So while a person with a mechanical > or non-human heart may suit the purposes of its owner just fine, and > may even have better performance and reliability than a factory- > original person, the fact remains that it is still a hybrid based on a person, > not a real person.<<< I've just asked the beloved Marjorie and she says she has no immediate plans, but you've got her worried about my long term resale value now. BTW, do we have to tell my insurers? Like many of us on this list I am (was?) worth more dead than alive. Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #328 ********************************************** From fadushin@ecs.syr.edu Wed Apr 11 22:52:18 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (ecs.syr.edu [128.230.208.14]) by minbar.fourfold.org (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f3C2qHN16996 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:52:17 -0400 Received: (from fadushin@localhost) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) id f3C1m8J09270 for fadushin@www.ovlr.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:48:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from syr.edu (syr.edu [128.230.1.49]) by mailroom.ecs.syr.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f3C1m7809266 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from works.team.net (IDENT:root@works.team.net [216.35.192.56]) by syr.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29020 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by works.team.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3C12i916661 for lro-digest-gone; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:02:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:02:44 -0400 Message-Id: <200104120102.f3C12i916661@works.team.net> From: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net (LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * *) To: lro-digest@works.team.net Subject: LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #329 Reply-To: lro-digest@works.team.net Sender: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Errors-To: owner-lro-digest@works.team.net Precedence: bulk X-Subscriptions: http://land-rover.team.net/majorcool/cgi-bin/majorcool.cgi LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * Wednesday, April 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 329 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:05:18 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps Somebody was talking to me about hand cranking the Land Rover engine the other day, and that got me wondering if any of the popular engine swaps people have been doing on the Series retain the ability to hand crank the engine. Granted, it's not a big liability if they don't- modern batteries and alternators just about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore, and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start. But the hand crank does come in handy on the 2.25 when adjusting valves, and back in the '70s I had to resort to hand cranking occasionally when my finances precluded the ability to buy a new battery until the next paycheck. Can you put the Land Rover's dog clutch crank pulley on the engines you're using for conversions, or has anyone had a machine shop make up a dog-clutch crank pulley? Of course it may not even be possible to hand-crank a V-8, 300 cu in. six, Iron Duke, etc., in which case creating the hardware to do it would be a waste of time. Higher horsepower does not necessarily preclude the ability to hand-start an engine. On rare occasions we have to resort to hand- starting the nine-cylinder, 450-hp Pratt & Whitney radials on the Beavers I fly, but they are very low compression engines, and are actually quite easy to get going by hand. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:42:49 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters... well now, there's me and Trevor Easton, and probably others, who have bits of metal inside there that our mummies and daddies never made for us... mind you, there are folk who don't think I'm human, how about you Trev ? Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters... > > her > question was, if a person gets a mechanical heart, are they still human? > How about a replacement heart from another person? How about a baboon > heart? What makes a person a person? > > > The question above all of that, Clinton, Is whether or not they were to > begin with..... > > Parts is parts... > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:34:30 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question My BRB (UK version of ARB) bullbar/bumper is half powder coated. The half where rust didn't get in through a slight nick and peel it off that is. I have a big job now to remove all the rest and rub the rust down. Then I'll redlead it and paint it. No more powder coating for me :-(> Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: N Forbes To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:35 AM Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question > My Rocky Mountain mountain bike is powder coated and it is extremely > durable. I think you'll only have problems if the prep work is not done. > > Niall Forbes > 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit > Dartmouth, Nova Scotia > The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm > > "See the happy moron, > He doesn't give a damn. > I wish I were a moron. > My God! Perhaps I am!" > --author unknown > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:26:19 -0400 From: "Martin Rothman" Subject: Re: LRO: simple powder coating question Simon Here is some info on powder coating: To powder coat a part the part is: - - sand blasted, - - dipped in a series of degreasing and caustic type solutions, - - given an electrostatic charge, - - then dipped into, or sprayed with a plastic powder, - - baked to melt the powder and bond it to the part. The finished result is a sealed plastic surface over the part. It is normally very thin and flexible. However, if you break the plastic surface and allow moisture to start rusting the part, the plastic can lift and separate from the part. (As with Alan Richer's Rangie and most bush bars that I have seen.) I have had several brit motorcycle frames, swingarms and other bits done with excellent results. If you have anything done with machined mating surfaces (close tolerances), or other wearing surfaces, you will need to either mask the area prior to coating or remove the coating from those areas before assembling. As with anything being painted, preparation is crucial. If the part has any threaded holes, especially blind holes, be sure to screw a long bolt part way in. This will prevent the powder from messing up your threads. After coating, use a sharp knife to slice the plastic around the mating edge and remove the bolt. Works great and keeps a tight bond with the powder. Hope this info helps. Regards, Martin Rothman _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:42:58 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: outage >there is some network work happening which may affect server availability >for a couple hours. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. > >shouldn't be the end of the world. > -B Well, I'll take your word for it but I'm not convinced. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:49:32 -0000 From: "N Forbes" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Marin Faure >Hey come on guys, at least he takes the time and trouble to rant and it >does >at least create some discussion. Give the guy break and I'm sure he'll >quieten down a little perhaps but not too much. > >Regards - John I figure if they have that much trouble dealing with someone through email, they must have a really hard time putting up with people they don't like in person. Oh well. I like Marin's rants for the most part, especially recently as he's become quite the wise ass. Good work Marin ;-) Now all we need is for Bobeck and Russ to hang around more often. Niall Forbes 66 IIa 88SW - The Red Zit Dartmouth, Nova Scotia The Nova Scotian Rover - http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/forbes/intro.htm "See the happy moron, He doesn't give a damn. I wish I were a moron. My God! Perhaps I am!" - --author unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:39:53 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: LRO: Why do we own Land Rovers? Very quiet this morning? I have been thinking about why I like Land Rovers. They are not very fast and not very quiet and a good one is worth more than my Range Rover! I do not really know specifically, but I think it might be because of the following. For me, I think that it is the association with the past. They all smell the same as when I was young and that reminds me of days of fun and shooting in Scotland. They are parked all over Britain. They are in the Market towns of the south, they are in London outside someone's flat. You'll find then in every farmyard, You'll see them towing horse boxes to hunt meets and pony club events. The police used to use them, the Army still does. They are so common in Britain, that they are part of the fabric of the rural scene. They are quaint and unique and are actually very good off-road. I have used an old Series IIa diesel as an everyday driver in England and I trained people to drive Army Lightweights at corporate events at Gaydon where the Factory tests the Landrovers. There is something very familiar about them. Everything is always the same. For me, they are an island of Britishness with all their quirks in a sea of mass produced mediocrity. Everyone who comes for a ride in whichever land Rover I have always says that it is very interesting and asks questions about it. Even if they have never seen one before in real life, they have seen one on TV and have heard of them. Go anywhere in the world and there they are, still battling on after all these years. I learned to drive in an Old Series Landrover. I steered it from my Dad's knee aged 6 and "soloed" it a few years later. My First employer on farm in Scotland at aged 17 had a series I. All through my life there has been a Landrover there, different year, different model, different color, different use, but always familiar. Now here in the USA I still have them and they are the same. It must be the memories that makes me like them. I look at a Freelander or a Defender and see nothing. They are good machines, but the character has gone. I have no association with them. Range Rovers reach far enough back to still be associated with Home and my misspent youth. The first one was built when I was 6 years old. I remember the first time I saw a four door model. The "new four door Range Rover"!! It was in a school friend of my sister's, father's garage with an Austin Healey, just outside Oxford. I opened the rear door. I was young and easily impressed! That's it really, in nutshell I use them as time machines to get back to where things were simpler. Mark Pilkington 1967 SWB Series IIA V8. 1990 "four door" Range Rover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:25:27 -0700 From: "Rich Williams II" Subject: LRO: list activity This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable just seeing if the list is down - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable just seeing if the list is down - ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C0C271.BA31E920-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:19:43 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: Bill Leacock writes:>>>> I have been trying to lern Americun for the past six years and have > finally mastered aluminum ( I process enough in a year to circulate the > globe 4 times - is that Ameriken enuf?)<< coming from Yorkshire, Bill, you had enough trouble with English right? Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:32:17 +0100 From: "Frank Elson" Subject: LRO: Re: relay knock found? I mentioned the sleeve. Steve Parker LRs here in the UK fitted one to my son's 1972 Ser3 when they replaced the relay, said the hole 'ovals' after a while. Steve is very helpful try him on : Steve@sparkerlr.u-net.com Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: joe mulqueen To: LRO Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:32 AM Subject: LRO: relay knock found? > Well, > I loosened my new relay's well torqued top cross > mounting bolts and I think I've confirmed the knocking > sound (that was heard only under higher driving > forces) is coming from the relay shifting in the frame > at the bottom end. I never disturbed the lower > retainer ring when I installed the new relay. It's > always been tight but now apparently not securing the > relay. Does anyone know how it's supposed to work? I > had simply pushed in the new relay until the top cross > bolts had aligned with the frame tabs and thought I > was done. Something needs to "shimmed" in this lower > region of the frame hole to prevent the new relay from > shifting...someone had mentioned someone who had > designed a "sleeve"? > Thanks for any experiences, > Joe Mulqueen > '67 SIIA 109 SW > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:05:26 -0400 From: "David G. Russell" Subject: LRO: Mini quest-no Rover content Please reply off-list. Does anyone have a link to a Mini page that just has a picture of a Mini on it? I don't want Flash I don't want frames I don't want under construction I don't want a bad link I just want a picture of a Mini and maybe a person standing next to it for reference. http://www.minifreak.freeserve.co.uk/famous.htm is as close as I've come but there is no plain, simple, stock Mini on the page ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:40:58 -0400 From: "David G. Russell" Subject: LRO: Larry's birthday On 10/4/01 at 2:04, Larry Smith penned: > I have a birthday coming up and have an unfulfilled fantasy. I want a > ride in a DC-3/C-47. Don't care whether I go as passenger or cargo > (Hey I retired after 22 years in the Army - I'm used to going as > cargo!) I've ridden in a lot of military aircraft, but never one of > these. What about checking at the Frederick, MD air show in the summer? Also, I saw one do touch and go's last summer at Pease up here in Portsmouth, NH. I think that show is going to be on again this year so the plane might be here as well. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:21:14 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: LRO: Safari Landrovers on Safari Paul, Do you know a guy in Nairobi called Alan Binks? Flies a 185, and drives a Safari converted 110? I think the company is called Downey Safari's. You probably do! Small world out there. Mark Paul Oxley wrote: > Hope Peter wrote: > > > Yes I am kidding, sheesh you PETA folks should change yer name to PITA. > > Heh, heh, heh! > > Mainstreet Nairobi, yesterday, three PETA 'world citizens' (from guess > which state, in guess which country) lock themselves inside a chicken > coop to protest against Kenyans consuming meat/chickens (BTW, estimates > are that 4.4 million Kenyans are at risk of starving at the moment). A > bystander observing this shakes his head and says "Chickens are not an > endangered species. I don't see the sense of it. Tonight I'm leaving > here and I'm going for a chicken." > > Go figger... > > Regards > > Paul Oxley > AfricanAdrenalin.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:18:59 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Mini quest-no Rover content :On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, David G. Russell wrote: :Please reply off-list. : :Does anyone have a link to a Mini page that just has a picture of a Mini :on it? http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2706/img/gthouse.jpg : - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:27:16 -0400 From: "Lee Jones" Subject: RE: LRO: Shipfitters... Hi Frank! I kinda look at my stent as a bailing wire fix and therefore is (in the Land Rover sense) still a factory item - I believe that bailing wire, chewing gum, hitting with a 4 pound sledge, and duct tape are all considered proper fixes for a Land Rover and therefore for me as well! Lee - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lro@works.team.net [mailto:owner-lro@works.team.net]On Behalf Of Frank Elson Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:43 PM To: lro@works.team.net Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters... well now, there's me and Trevor Easton, and probably others, who have bits of metal inside there that our mummies and daddies never made for us... mind you, there are folk who don't think I'm human, how about you Trev ? Best Cheers Frank +--+--+--+ I !__| [_]|_\___ I ____|"_|"__|_ | / B791 PKV "(o)======(o)" Bronze Green 110 CSW - ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: Re: LRO: Shipfitters... > > her > question was, if a person gets a mechanical heart, are they still human? > How about a replacement heart from another person? How about a baboon > heart? What makes a person a person? > > > The question above all of that, Clinton, Is whether or not they were to > begin with..... > > Parts is parts... > > ajr > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:26:31 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Hand cranking and engine swaps I loved having the hand crank on my S-III. Was a convience when setting points, or valves. Never did use it to start, other then for fun for friends. The IIa has the crank driven Koenig, which I still have not figured out how to convert so I can hand crank. I am thinking of making the input shaft longer, drill and seal the front side of the housing. Then a shortened handle there. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:32:55 -0400 From: Easton Trevor A Subject: LRO: RE: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant An economical (aka True LRO) substitute for RedLine Water Wetter is Jetdry dishwasher additive. > I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I > also > started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and don't > hesitate > recommending this product to anyone. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:31:53 -1000 From: "Hope Peter" Subject: LRO: Re: Mini quest-no Rover content Dave, if you can't find what you need let me know and I can send you a digipic. One of the Aloha Rover Owners has a mini and I can snap one for you. Maybe park it between our Rovers for an even beter comparrason. I swear the thing looks like it will fit in the backend of the GMC. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:43:30 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Engine rebuild time Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:54:09 -0600 From: "Jim Hall" Subject: LRO: GRRRRR-engine rebuild time >So if my engine started missing, and when I step on the gas it backfires through the carb, what is that most likely to be? Head gasket, burnt valve? It might also be worth checking the points. I had a similar symptom on a trip to the Yukon and Northwest Territories in 1977. The vehicle started missing, and it progressively got worse until it wouldn't run at speed at all. Backfiring, missing, terrible. But it would start and idle just fine. Checked the fuel feed and it was okay. Turned out the problem was the points had worn through their hard coating, and then they eroded very rapidly. Put in a new set of points, and the thing ran perfectly. This may not be your problem at all, but it might be worth checking out. Usually an engine problem that materializes right away is pretty minor, in that it's just an adjustment or failed component like points, fuel pump, etc. A more major problem generally takes time to become apparent. Not a hard and fast rule, of course, but it's been my experience that's what happens. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:42:54 -0700 From: Mark Pilkington Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Hand cranking and engine swaps With the plugs out of a non-runner, and the gears in low first, you can crank a Land Rover right up onto the trailer with a minimum of effort with the cranking handle. Mark Pilkington Hope Peter wrote: > I loved having the hand crank on my S-III. Was a convience when setting > points, or valves. Never did use it to start, other then for fun for > friends. > The IIa has the crank driven Koenig, which I still have not figured out how > to convert so I can hand crank. I am thinking of making the input shaft > longer, drill and seal the front side of the housing. Then a shortened > handle there. > Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:45:29 -0600 From: "Coates, Clinton" Subject: LRO: MB Adapters Hi TeriAnn, I emailed this guy (Guenter.Stuesser@t-online.de) but thought that his prices were a bit dear. 850 DM for the ring, clutch plate and spigot bearing. The spigot is a custom one, the clutch plate is custom and requires a 300D flywheel etc. I have also heard some negative feedback on the kit, but cannot substantiate it. I will probably come out about the same as this kit in the end, cost wise. But, doing it myself (with a good machinists help) I know it will be the way I want it. Plus, I will be using entirely stock components for the wear items. It is *much* easier to find an 8.5" 240D clutch in north america than a clutch for a standard 300D, which was never imported over here... The guy also has kits to put 300Ds into various species of discos and rangies, I believe. Clinton 2.25 Petrol Apostate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:35:37 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: LRO: Sighting--Ft. Collins CO Hey everyone, I've seen my first two series LRs in town since moving to Ft. Collins in the past few days and neither time have I been in Mrs. Merdle! Yesterday I saw a white SII or IIA 109 Reg, hard top, RHD, with a LR sticker on the door right here in Ft. Collins CO and last week I saw a pale green SII or IIA 88", also hard top (with liftgate, not SW rear door). Anyone know either of these trucks? bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:11:50 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: 240D to LR adapter So, essentially, you're doing a Scotty's trick - replacing the arse end of the motor with a flywheel cover that mimics the LR... Nice design - that's got to be an interesting bit of CNC work. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:43:21 -0600 From: "William J. Rice" Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps modern batteries and alternators just about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore, and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start. Yeah, but if the STARTER goes out on you, like mine did a month ago, you're stuck doing the old push-start, which is dangerous in a IIA since the dashboard isn't exactly soft when you bash your knee on it while jumping into the rolling truck (attempts 2 and 3), nor is the roof edge soft when you bash your head into it while jumping in (attempt 1). She started on attempt three and I bought a new starter (well, reman'd w/ a lifetime guarantee) the next day for a big old $35. So, while you might not have the ability to crank start it, the odds of you having to do so for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close. bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:01:18 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: RE: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Easton Trevor A wrote: :An economical (aka True LRO) substitute for RedLine Water Wetter is Jetdry :dishwasher additive. : : :> I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I :> also :> started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and don't :> hesitate :> recommending this product to anyone. Red Line's Water Wetter is probably some surfactant and possibly some alcohol, and some anti-corrosives. If you've got access to a chemical stockroom, a few grams of reagent grade surfactant would do the trick -- dirt cheap too. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:04:13 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:06:24 -0400 From: "Perrone Ford" Subject: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant >I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I also started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and don't hesitate recommending this product to anyone. http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/coolant.htm Reading the coolant commentary on the above URL that Perrone posted, I came across this paragraph: "There are two types of base coolant stock available right now: Ethylene glycol (EG) and propylene glycol (PG). Currently, no engine manufacturers selling product in the US recommend PG (sold by Arco as Sierra brand coolant), most caution against it (check your owner's guide). PG has a higher boiling point than EG (straight), but has a lower heat-transfer coefficient. EG coolants also come in several flavors, depending on the additive package (more below). BTW, PG isn't truly non-toxic." The author goes on to describe some of the other coolants on the market. I have no idea of the author's qualifications on the subject, but the article is worth reading if you're interested in the merits and demerits of the various coolant types. Thanks, Perrone, for posting these URLs. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:03:52 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Series Fuel tanks PETA 'world citizens' (from guess which state, in guess which country) Don't blame US for California.....we're on the other end of the landmass for a very good reason! aj"Pragmatic New Englander"r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:11:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David Scheidt Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, William J. Rice wrote: :for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are :greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close. : Truly written like a man who's never had to walk five miles to buy a part. - -- dscheidt@tumbolia.com Bipedalism is only a fad. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:02:38 -0400 From: "RON WARD" Subject: LRO: Painting a IIa Hey, I have decided to hand paint my 88" and want a color close to pastel green. Now, about a week ago I was browsing around on the internet and recall seeing a picture of a young lady's 88" (on OVLR or ROAV site?) that had been painted the same color. The caption mentioned a Martha Stewart "garden collections," or something similar, paint color. Anyone recommend a variety or close color match in a rustoleum or other exterior paint that can be found at the Home Depot or someplace? Thanks Ron Ward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:29:15 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: 240D to LR adapter So, essentially, you're doing a Scotty's trick - replacing the arse end of the motor with a flywheel cover that mimics the LR... Nice design - that's got to be an interesting bit of CNC work. ajr ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:26:50 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps Had to meet someone over at the farm early Saturday morning but when I went out to the 109, the starter was dead. Sh*t, I had to find the crank 'cuz I'd taken all that stuff out of the truck during the rebuild. Luckily, found it almost immediately. Pulled the choke, pumped the throttle a couple of times, and it started on the 2nd crank despite having sat through a bitterly cold 68 degree night. Glory be, what a wonder the much maligned 2 1/4 is. Aloha Peter >From: "William J. Rice" >Reply-To: lro@works.team.net >To: lro@Works.Team.Net >Subject: Re: LRO: Hand cranking and engine swaps >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:43:21 -0600 > >modern batteries and alternators just >about eliminate the need to ever hand-crank an engine anymore, >and if the battery does die, you can almost always get a jump start. > >Yeah, but if the STARTER goes out on you, like mine did a month ago, >you're stuck doing the old push-start, which is dangerous in a IIA since >the dashboard isn't exactly soft when you bash your knee on it while >jumping into the rolling truck (attempts 2 and 3), nor is the roof edge >soft when you bash your head into it while jumping in (attempt 1). She >started on attempt three and I bought a new starter (well, reman'd w/ a >lifetime guarantee) the next day for a big old $35. So, while you might >not have the ability to crank start it, the odds of you having to do so >for extended periods due to 1) parts cost or 2) parts availability are >greatly reduced since Auto Zone is always pretty durn close. > >bill _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:32:04 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:57:58 -0700 From: "Lonn & Rhonda" Subject: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant >Maybe my RR will like SAAB anti-freeze? Seems that any coolant designed for aluminum blocked engines should work, but my SAAB tech is insistent on using only genuine SAAB anti-freeze. Wonder why? Based on my conversations with the engine shop I deal with, it would seem you are best off sticking with whatever the vehicle manufacturer recommends. In the Jaguar URL that Perrone Ford posted there are some comments in the article about why it's not a good idea to switch coolant types in an engine that's been run on one type for awhile. Obviously all the coolants sold in containers labeled for a particular vehicle or engine manufacturer are not made by those manufacturers. I suspect that, like batteries and VCRs, there are only a few actual coolant manufacturers in the world. So it may well be that the coolant sold under the Saab name is fine for a Range Rover. But I think you should make real sure it is before you try it. According to the person I talked to at Solihull, the Rover V-8 is pretty particular about having the right kind of coolant in it, in the right condition. Old coolant is apparently pretty detrimental. As another poster said, the anti-corrosion properties start to fail as coolant gets older. Maybe not a big deal in an iron engine but it seems to be a very big deal in an aluminum one. Now that I've started siphoning the old coolant out of our Range Rover instead of using the extremely messy, factory-recommended method of removing the lower radiator hose, I've become much more willing to change the coolant once a year, which from everything I've been told is an important contributor to maximizing the engine's life. Our '91 Range Rover came from the factory, or at least from the US distributor, with Prestone in it, and that's what we've run ever since. We did have to install a new radiator a year or so ago, not because the original was leaking but because it wasn't doing as efficient a job of cooling as it had. Upon removal, we found that about a third of the front surface was plugged with dirt, bugs, grass, etc. This had been hidden behind the air conditioning and transmission fluid heat exchanger assemblies, and so wasn't apparent until we actually removed the radiator. So that was certainly responsible for some of the radiator's lost efficiency. However, I had been told by several Range Rover mechanics that eight or nine years is about average for a Range Rover radiator to go before starting to lose its effectiveness. In any event, it's worth spraying water forward through the radiator periodically to clear the crud that gets trapped in front if you do a lot of driving in dusty, buggy, etc. conditions. >And what's the deal with the eco-anti-freeze that won't destroy Fido's liver? Anybody have any experience with it? >From what I've heard, it's certainly better for the environment, but it's still a chemical, and as such still has some toxic qualities. I would take the same precautions when draining a cooling system and disposing of the old coolant as you would if you were using Prestone. I suspect that an animal lapping at a puddle of Sierra won't suffer the same consequences as they would at a puddle of Prestone, but that's not to say nothing will happen to them at all. Nor do I know what a Sierra-type coolant will do in the ground water or in a pond, but I suspect it's not good. Probably just not as bad as a Prestone-type coolant. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:51:30 -1000 From: "Peter Ogilvie" Subject: Re: LRO: Re: Changing RR coolant Ethylene and propylene glycol are both toxic. The problem with ethylene glycol is it tastes sweet so is an attractant for little critters. They think its sugar water and lap it up, much to the discomfort of their innards. Propylene glycol is not tasty so even though its toxic it doesn't encourage the critters to lap it up. Aloha Peter >From: "Faure, Marin" > >I'm not sure about the corrosion inhibitors being less effective, but I >also >started using Red Line Water Wetter when I switched over and don't >hesitate >recommending this product to anyone. >http://www.jag-lovers.org/lumps/coolant.htm > >Reading the coolant commentary on the above URL that Perrone posted, >I came across this paragraph: > >"There are two types of base coolant stock available right now: Ethylene >glycol (EG) and propylene glycol (PG). Currently, no engine manufacturers >selling product in the US recommend PG (sold by Arco as Sierra brand >coolant), most caution against it (check your owner's guide). PG has a >higher boiling point than EG (straight), but has a lower heat-transfer >coefficient. EG coolants also come in several flavors, depending on the >additive package (more below). BTW, PG isn't truly non-toxic." > >The author goes on to describe some of the other coolants on the >market. I have no idea of the author's qualifications on the subject, >but the article is worth reading if you're interested in the merits >and demerits of the various coolant types. Thanks, Perrone, for >posting these URLs. >___________________________ >C. Marin Faure > (original owner) > 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 > 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE > Seattle > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:48:37 -0700 From: christian147@juno.com Subject: Re: LRO: RE: Re: Changing RR coolant SAAB's antifreeze in no different than anything else. Its either Propylene Glycol (standard stuff) Dexcool, or the enviro stuff. Have a look at the label and figure out what's in it. Not quite true. Silicates Borates and Phosphates are common additives. They all settle out and can block cooling passages. That is one reason for the for the coolant change. Any coolant containing also has a shelf like. When was the last time you saw a "sell by" date on a jug of antifreeze? How long was that cheep antifreeze on the shelf? How long before it settles or gels? Silicates also bond to the ceramic seal and increase ware a few hundred percent. As for protecting aluminum and not protecting brass,please point me to your references Propylene Glycol is a food additive. The standard stuff is Ethylene Glycol. For a quick check of corrosion resistance of your antifreeze try sticking the probes of a high impedance volt meter, one in the coolant not touching anything else and one on the engine block, you might be surprised at the potential. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:02:19 -0700 From: "Faure, Marin" Subject: LRO: RE: DC 3's Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:44:12 -0400 From: "Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus" Subject: Re: LRO: RE: DC 3's >>The set on the DC-3 in New England >OK, I missed this - what DC3 on floats WHERE in New England? At one time the DC-3 in question was based in Maine, but I couldn't say for sure that's where it is now. It was created several years ago by mating the only remaining set of C-47 amphibious floats made by EDO during WWII to a civilian DC-3, which is for all practical purposes identical to a C-47. The idea was to create a unique airplane that could be taken to airshows around the country, thus paying the cost of the initial project and operating expenses. From talking to folks I know in the seaplane business, this concept hasn't really panned out very well. The last I heard, the airplane was for sale, although finding someone with the money to buy and operate such a beast won't be easy. At least the plane can be operated from airports and isn't confined to water operations only, which would really limit its earnings potential on the airshow circuit. I've talked to pilots who flew them during testing at EDO during the war, and they say the plane handled very well, both on the water and in the air. The program was cancelled after two C-47s had been fitted with the floats, not because the concept didn't work but because the planes proved unnecessary in the Pacific theatre, where the Navy Seabees could construct an operational runway with days of an amphibious landing on an island. ___________________________ C. Marin Faure (original owner) 1973 Land Rover Series III-88 1991 Range Rover Vogue SE Seattle ------------------------------ End of LRO Mailing List DIGEST * * * * V1 #329 **********************************************